Monday, January 25, 1993

1 2 3 4 5 6 ALBANY, NEW YORK 7 January 25, 1993 8 2:45 p.m. 9 10 11 REGULAR SESSION 12 13 14 15 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 16 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 3 will come to order. Senators will find their 4 seats. 5 If you'll please stand with me 6 for the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 Today in the absence of clergy, 10 we'll bow our heads for a moment of silence. 11 (A moment of silence was 12 observed. ) 13 Secretary will begin by reading 14 the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Friday, January 22nd. The Senate met pursuant 17 to adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 18 designation of the Temporary President. The 19 Journal of Thursday, January 21st, was read and 20 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 22 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 23 read. 1 The order of business: 2 Presentation of petitions. 3 Messages from the Assembly. 4 Messages from the Governor. 5 Reports of standing committees. 6 Reports of select committees. 7 Communications and reports from 8 state officers. 9 Motions and resolutions. Do we 10 have any of those? 11 Senator, do we have any motions 12 on the floor? Senator Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: You said "and 14 resolutions," isn't that correct? 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I did. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Last week, on the 18 Resolution Calendar was Resolution Number 213, 19 by Senator Hoffmann, and we laid it aside 20 because we weren't sure about the issue of 21 co-sponsorship. Senator Hoffmann says indeed 22 she would be delighted if any member or all 23 members wanted to co-sponsor to the resolution 1 commemorating the life and career of Dr. Martin 2 Luther King, Jr., and I'd like to call up 3 Senator Hoffmann's Resolution 213, move its 4 passage, but before that, I wanted to, as I say, 5 give everyone the opportunity of co-sponsoring 6 it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Secretary will read the title of Resolution 9 Number 213. 10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 11 Resolution Number 213, by Senators Hoffmann and 12 DeFrancisco: Commemorating the life and career 13 of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 15 resolution, we'll pass it. 16 Senator Hoffmann, would you like 17 to speak to the resolution? 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President, 19 I would just like to acknowledge that this 20 resolution is available for co-sponsorship by 21 all members of the Legislature. I believe that 22 it was circulated in the Assembly and was 23 supported unanimously by that chamber if I'm not 1 mistaken, and I would hope that this chamber 2 would show a similar degree of support for 3 commemorating this important day. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I have one 5 name here: I know Senator Galiber and Paterson 6 and you -- you want to get all the names? Is 7 there anybody on this side that doesn't want to 8 be - 9 SENATOR SMITH: We're all on it, 10 everyone. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Do you 12 want them all on it? Without objection, the 13 acting Majority Leader and the Minority Leader, 14 all members will be on it without objection. 15 On the resolution, all in favor 16 say aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Those opposed nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The resolution is unanimously 21 adopted. 22 O.K. We have another resolution 23 by Senator Levy. 1 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 2 Resolution, by Senator Levy, memorializing the 3 life of Faith Brewer Lawson, dedicated 4 journalist, editor, and community leader. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 6 resolution, all in favor say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Those opposed nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The resolution is adopted. 11 Senator Present, I guess we're 12 ready for the Calendar, if it's your pleasure. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Non-controvers 14 ial calendar, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Non-controversial. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 2, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 534, an 19 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law and 20 the Environmental Conservation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 3, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number - 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 13 that bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 4, by Senator Kuhl. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 18 that bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 5, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 537, an 21 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 22 relation to exempting working search dogs. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 7, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 187, an 12 act to amend the Transportation Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 8, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 324, an 2 act in relation to authorizing the Department of 3 Transportation to survey areas of the state. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 10, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 572, an 16 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to sales 17 and use taxes in the county of Monroe. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 21 that bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 11, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 64, 1 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 2 permitting police officers to give certain 3 testimony. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 12, by Senator Halperin, Senate Bill Number 9 106. 10 SENATOR HALPERIN: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 13, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 152, 15 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 16 availability in certain circumstances. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 14, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 173, an 6 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 7 crime of criminal mischief. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- ayes 40, 16 nays 1, Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the 17 negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 15, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 181, 22 an act to amend the Penal Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 16, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 189, 12 Civil Rights Law, assuming a changed name. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 18, by Senator Holland. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 4 aside. 5 That's the first time around. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 would you recognize Senator Marchi, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 11 and I notice a -- we have a visitor, a 12 distinguished visitor. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Distinguished counsel here. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Under these 16 circumstances. Mr. President, there is a 17 resolution at the desk that I'd like to have 18 read, and then I would comment on it briefly. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Secretary will read the title of the 21 resolution. He's going to read the entire 22 resolution. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, the entire 1 resolution. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 entire resolution. 4 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 5 Resolution, by Senator Marchi and others, 6 honoring Eugene K. Tyksinski, Secretary of the 7 Senate Finance Committee from 1982 to 1992. 8 WHEREAS, Eugene K. Tyksinski, a 9 Rome, New York native, graduate of LeMoyne 10 College, Marine Corps Captain and veteran of 11 service in Vietnam, public finance professional 12 in the state of New York and Secretary of the 13 Senate Finance Committee, retired on December 14 31st, 1992 to pursue other endeavors after an 15 exemplary career in public service; 16 It is the practice of this 17 legislative body to honor those citizens of the 18 Empire State who have compiled records of 19 extraordinary public service; 20 Eugene K. Tyksinski pursued a 21 career in public finance that spanned the 22 historic administration of Governor Nelson A. 23 Rockefeller, the challenging tenure of Governor 1 Hugh Carey and the storied era of Governor Mario 2 M. Cuomo; 3 Before launching a career in 4 service to the Senate Finance Committee in 1968, 5 Mr. Tyksinski served five years in the executive 6 branch of New York State government with the 7 Division of the Budget; 8 Over his 24 years of service to 9 the Senate, Eugene K. Tyksinski ranged 10 professionally over virtually every facet of 11 government finance. He developed special 12 expertise in mental health, social services and 13 health during his years as a budget analyst, 14 senior budget analyst and principal budget 15 analyst; 16 Mr. Tyksinski's highly 17 professional performance, including his skill 18 for negotiating in behalf of the Senate on 19 budget matters over which differences existed 20 with the Assembly and the Governor, figured 21 substantively in the 1982 appointment by Senator 22 John Marchi as Secretary of Senate Finance; 23 Among the numerous significant 1 contributions to the public benefit made by 2 Eugene Tyksinski during his years with the 3 Senate Finance was the aggressive pursuit of 4 Senate Majority initiatives toward lowering the 5 state personal income tax rate. His efforts 6 helped produce a negotiated package in 1987 7 which dropped the personal income tax rate from 8 13 percent to 7.8 percent over three years; 9 Senator John J. Marchi, Finance 10 Chairman at the time, called TA tremendous 11 achievement for the Senate, aided in substantial 12 part by Gene Tyksinski's finesse and energy; 13 Gene Tyksinski's tenure under the 14 leadership of Senate Majority Leaders Warren M. 15 Anderson and Ralph J. Marino paralleled the 16 development of a highly professional fiscal 17 staff and appropriate to the budgetary 18 challenges of the last 17 years; 19 Gene Tyksinski's performance as 20 Secretary of Finance, including strenuous 21 negotiating sessions with the Division of the 22 Budget and the Assembly earned him the respect 23 of all participants at every level; 1 Gene Tyksinski elected in 1992 to 2 complete his Senate career and move on to other 3 pursuits, and this legislative body wishes to 4 salute him and his record through formal 5 resolution; 6 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, 7 that this legislative body pause in its 8 deliberations to convey its thanks to Eugene K. 9 Tyksinski for his sterling performance as 10 Finance Committee Secretary and that redounded 11 to the benefit of all New Yorkers; and 12 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that this 13 legislative body offer Gene Tyksinski, his wife 14 Liz Retter, Deputy State Housing Commissioner, 15 and their family, its best wishes for continued 16 success and enjoyment of life; and 17 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a 18 copy of this resolution suitably engrossed be 19 transmitted to Mr. Eugene K. Tyksinski and his 20 family. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Marchi. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 1 I'm sure there are already a number of people 2 who have indicated their desire to be 3 co-sponsors on this resolution and, of course, 4 the list remained open for those who might not 5 have so expressed themselves who wanted to go on 6 the resolution. 7 I think it's a -- the fortuitous 8 statement that we can speak to the service of 9 the fiscal committee in this state, in the 10 Senate, and I believe that the same thing can be 11 said for the Ways and Means Committee of the 12 Assembly, of the tremendous role that these 13 fiscal committees have assumed, the responsi 14 bilities that they have actively engaged 15 themselves in to the profit of the entire state 16 of New York. 17 It's really a -- a better 18 interpretation, not just mere numbers, but the 19 art of programming public needs with public 20 substance in numbers, and that is a big 21 difference. It calls for a mastery, a detailed 22 mastery of all of the components of government, 23 the analytical, the studies, the enormous 1 investment that has to be made, calling on 2 professional elements and also being able to 3 make judgments that become part of the 4 deliberations of this body, and Gene Tyksinski 5 exemplified this quality in a very unique way. 6 Certainly a very formidable and 7 credible career, anticipating his service in 8 government, with the Marines, academically and 9 then finally joining us in this effort and 10 tackling various assignments and proceeding 11 progressively so that when the vacancy was open 12 it was inevitable -- inevitable in terms of the 13 past which was prologue to a very brilliant 14 future in serving the vital needs of this body 15 and helping us achieve greater effectiveness. 16 And you don't do this in a 17 vacuum. You don't -- you can't bring superb 18 qualities, professional qualities and mastery of 19 your science and at the same time have any 20 degree of effectiveness unless you can reach 21 people's hearts as well as their minds; unless 22 you're able to negotiate; unless you're able to 23 explore and expand on common ground so that 1 indeed we can achieve solid programming. 2 These are all qualities that he 3 exemplified during his period of service and 4 they will serve as a role model, Mr. President, 5 for those who come after him. Indeed it's - 6 it's really encouraging that we have this kind 7 of force exerted so beneficially when matters 8 that are fiscal are often treated very 9 cavalierly in terms of pure numbers without - 10 without going beyond that and really divulging 11 and bringing out what they really mean. 12 So, Mr. President, it's a -- this 13 is a great tribute, I think, that this body will 14 be paying him when they vote on this resolution 15 and I'm sure that it will be unanimous, but it 16 also -- it also serves as an opportunity for 17 thanking not only Gene but those who worked with 18 him, and I'm sure he would be the first to 19 recognize, in enabling this body to serve, and 20 this includes people on both sides of the aisle 21 and members of the staffs on both sides of the 22 aisle whom, with my own experience of 16 years, 23 I saw exercising their responsibilities in view 1 of the -- of the major concerns of the -- of the 2 two conferences, was brought so very clearly. 3 So we salute you, Gene Tyksinski. 4 I don't know whether my pronunciation is any 5 closer than -- than our distinguished clerk, but 6 we salute you, and I'm sure that this resolution 7 will pass with the affection as well as the vote 8 of all the members of this body. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Present, I know there's others who want to speak 11 to this. I'm going to, with your permission, 12 ask Gene Tyksinski to come up here to the podium 13 so he can look in the eyes of these guys who 14 want to say something about you. 15 Senator Halperin. 16 SENATOR HALPERIN: I'll just call 17 you "Gino" because that's what most of us call 18 you. That's largely because we can't pronounce 19 your last name. We're still not convinced that 20 it was read correctly in the resolution. I don't 21 think that that's how you pronounce it, but 22 "Gino", it has been truly a pleasure working 23 with you. 1 That doesn't mean it's been easy, 2 but it's been a pleasure watching someone of 3 such talent and ability be able to combine the 4 necessities of politics with the substantive 5 understanding that you have regarding the very 6 complex issues that we've dealt with on the 7 Finance Committee. And I think it's really 8 difficult for the average legislator, not to say 9 the average citizen, to really understand the 10 complexity of the job of Secretary of Finance. 11 It goes well beyond simply going 12 to negotiate the budget. That alone is a 13 monumental task, but the Finance Committee, with 14 all of its resolutions, with all of its nomina 15 tions, with all of its amendments to the 16 Executive Law, and so many other laws that 17 simply have some even very minor impact upon the 18 state budget, requires a range of knowledge that 19 is otherwise unmatched in this Legislature. 20 You have mastered all of the 21 substantive issues and the political abilities 22 and yet you've done it in a calm, dignified 23 manner, always showing respect to the people 1 with whom you work, and that is something that 2 I've always appreciated. 3 So I wish you the best in 4 whatever it is you're going on to do. The last 5 time I spoke to you, you didn't know; maybe you 6 know now, and I wish the best to your lovely 7 wife Liz who will perhaps have to put up with 8 you a little bit more than she had to in the 9 past. I hope that she can accommodate herself 10 to this shock. But I wish you the best, both of 11 you, and the good health and success for many 12 years to come. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Mendez. 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Oh. Oh, Mr. 16 President, I, too, want to stand up and let Mr. 17 Tyksinski know that we're going to miss him 18 tremendously. If anybody would ask me what I 19 would remember the most from him, I would say 20 that he has such patience and such desire to 21 help in a -- his big process is ever to relate 22 to people regardless of ethnic, racial or 23 socio-economic levels. 1 So that from now on, after I - 2 first, I want to wish you the best, Gene, 3 because you deserve it. I served in the 4 Minority party and in my dealings with Mr. 5 Tyksinski, I never felt that I belonged to the 6 -- to the Minority party because he treated me 7 with a desire to help and be helpful and with 8 great authority and ability. 9 So that I wish you the very best. 10 Again, we're going to miss you, and every time I 11 hear that song, For He's a Jolly Good Fellow, 12 I'm going to think of you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Mega. 15 SENATOR MEGA: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 We present these resolutions 18 because they're not only important to the body 19 but they're important to the individual who we 20 do honor to, and Gene, I would like to add my 21 remarks to the wonderful remarks of my 22 colleagues. 23 I really can't say much better 1 than they have said it, but one thing that I'd 2 like to mention is the fact that you're a -- not 3 an ex-Marine but a former Marine, because once a 4 Marine always a Marine, and you are a Captain in 5 the Marines, little knowing that at some time 6 you have to bring into play all that knowledge 7 and all that expertise to be involved with a 8 legislative group, whatever that really means. 9 But it means you had to be tough, and you had to 10 know what you were doing, and you had to get 11 your message across, and you did that, and the 12 Marines talk about a few good men and you 13 certainly -- and they're still looking for them 14 and it's very difficult to find them, but you 15 certainly personify a "few good men". 16 You are certainly one of the 17 best, and I want to add my remarks to the record 18 and wish you the best and wish for you what I 19 wish for myself: Good health, a long life and 20 enjoy whatever you're going to do, Gene, and 21 thanks for all that you've done for the state of 22 New York, and thanks for the little way that 23 you've made my life a lot easier as a State 1 Senator. 2 Thanks, Gene. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I don't 7 want to say too much, but I want everybody, if 8 they will, to just take a look at that gentleman 9 in front because there wasn't one time as a 10 member of the Finance Committee when he did me 11 in that he didn't smile, and look at that. And 12 there wasn't one time when one of my bills was 13 killed when he wasn't pleasant about it. Look 14 at that; look at that face. There wasn't one 15 time when my budget items were thrown into the 16 garbage that he wasn't quiet and dignified about 17 it. 18 Gene, we -- well, we really have 19 a great feeling for you. You're a professional. 20 You did your job and as someone who went through 21 the difficulties of being on staff for a period 22 of time myself, I admire your work and I wish 23 you good success in the future. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Volker. 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 4 there is going to be something rather strange 5 about this budget process because it's hard to 6 believe, first of all, when I came here I had 7 dark hair and it was curly and it's now, you can 8 see what it is now. But 21 years ago it seems 9 like in the budget process there have been two, 10 well, there have been more than two main 11 protagonists for the Senate, Jim Biggane and 12 Gene Tyksinski. It just will not seem the same 13 without one or the other or both being there 14 involved, and for those of you who are new to 15 this process, you'll find out what a grueling 16 process it is. 17 Gene, I think, was without 18 question, one of the true professionals, not 19 that we always agreed on everything and not that 20 Gene sometimes was the one that had to convey 21 the bad news, so to speak, on certain issues, 22 but he was always a gentleman and he was always 23 a professional, and I just want to say, Gene, 1 that for me and myself and my constituents, I 2 think you did an exemplary job through the years 3 that you were here. I think you always tried to 4 be fair in a process that -- where fairness is, 5 I guess, sometimes in the eyes of the beholder 6 because it is a very difficult process as you 7 know better than any of us how difficult it is, 8 given the nature of the three parts of 9 government and the three or four other parts of 10 government that aren't directly represented here 11 that we know about. 12 My compliments to you, my thanks 13 to you for your kindness to me, and for the 14 professionalism that you have exhibited 15 throughout your time, and I hope that you and 16 your family and -- will have a, I don't want to 17 say retirement, you're too young to truly retire 18 but will have an enjoyable period of relaxation 19 and in whatever you do, my best of luck and God 20 speed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Hoffmann. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: At the risk of 1 gilding the lily, I just want to add my words of 2 praise and thanks to Gene Tyksinski and also to 3 indicate that once again we have demonstrated 4 that central New York, in this case the Mohawk 5 Valley, breeds the very finest. 6 The high level of professional 7 ism that you have demonstrated here has made the 8 people of your home town, Rome, New York, 9 enormously proud, and there is none more proud 10 than your mother, Mary Tyksinski, and I know 11 that all of your friends at the South Rome 12 Senior Center join me in sharing this special 13 day with you. 14 Thank you very much for a job 15 well done, Gene. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On - 17 Senator Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 Gene, I'll be extremely brief 21 because you reach a point where you no longer 22 become a believer, all these things you hear, 23 but I want to take this opportunity and not miss 1 this opportunity, if you will, to say thanks to 2 you for an era, if you will, when things were 3 quite different, when hand shakes were a good 4 contract and you came with bad news, but it 5 wasn't bad news because you necessarily wanted 6 it; that's the way it was. 7 Those days are long gone past. 8 As Shakespeare said, I believe, you're made of a 9 kind of special stuff that is not here any more, 10 very frankly, and that we're going to miss you. 11 We understand that there are those who believe 12 firmly that the good is oft interred with your 13 bones. We want to tell you about the good before 14 you get to that particular point. 15 You're going to be missed here. 16 There's only a few of us left, a handful, if you 17 will, that recall. So I personally take this 18 opportunity for the years that I've been here 19 and, Dale, it was just bad news when you brought 20 it to Dale. When you came to me, it was no, and 21 that's bad news of it, but it was just the way 22 it was said. 23 But you were always a gentleman; 1 you were always kind and gentle and understand 2 ing. So my best goes to you and to your family 3 and give them my best regards and, again, 4 Godspeed. We'll miss you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 6 resolution, all of those in favor say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Those opposed nay. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 It seems to pass unanimously. 11 (Applause) 12 On behalf of the Chair, let me 13 say, Gene, how much we're going to miss you, how 14 kind you've been to every member of this 15 chamber, particularly our side of the aisle, and 16 we're very grateful for that. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Very nicely 18 said. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: But 20 seriously, you've been a great public servant 21 and you've done the Senate proud and we all wish 22 you well, and you and your wife and your family, 23 and all the best wishes to you on behalf of the 1 Senate and congratulations on your new step 2 ahead. 3 (Applause). 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Controversial? 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Controversial 7 Calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 9 Calendar Number 3, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill 10 Number 535, an act to amend the Agriculture and 11 Markets Law. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation for 13 that. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Kuhl. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 17 President. This is a bill that I'm sure Senator 18 Gold remembers well in the past that we've taken 19 up. At this point we haven't been successful in 20 getting the Assembly to recognize the need and 21 the benefit in the bill. But it's a bill that 22 would, particularly this year, seem to be an 23 implementation of a program of the Governor. 1 You've heard the Governor in his 2 State of the State address, and again in his 3 budget review, say that there will be no 4 unfunded state mandates coming. 5 This is a bill that really 6 attempts to kind of carry that whole premise one 7 step farther, and that is a review of current 8 mandates and particularly the effect that they 9 may have from a negative standpoint on our 10 number one business here in New York and that's 11 agriculture. 12 That's essentially what the bill 13 does. It requires a review of that, a report 14 back to the Legislature amongst other groups and 15 allows for the implementation of a process that 16 will eliminate unburdensome -- I should say 17 burdensome and very, very, very costly mandates 18 on the private sector involved in agriculture in 19 New York. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Gold. 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I want to 2 thank Senator Kuhl for bringing this about 3 because it's very significant that with so many 4 new members in the house this year that they 5 have -- we can give them a feel for what goes on 6 here without this all being very serious. 7 This bill is one of those that we 8 have to deal with every year because it's 9 obviously going nowhere. Last year Senators 10 Connor, Galiber, myself, Halperin, Leichter, 11 Markowitz, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Onorato, 12 Oppenheimer, Smith, Solomon, Stavisky, and Wein 13 stein voted in the negative. 14 There is a memorandum in strong 15 opposition by the Department against the bill, 16 so right away you know that even if the other 17 house decided to take it up, the Governor 18 wouldn't sign it. 19 But basically, to talk about the 20 bill for just a moment. The Governor has made a 21 commitment on unfunded mandates. We can see to 22 it that that commitment is followed, Senator 23 Kuhl, because we have to vote on these bills and 1 I'm willing to go along with the Governor's 2 idea. I think it's a good idea but, more impor 3 tantly, we have an Administrative Regulations 4 Review Commission. Senator Present ran that for 5 years. I think you finally got rid of that, 6 didn't you, Jess? He finally smartened up and 7 got rid of that. But we still have it, and the 8 purpose, one purpose of a legislative body is 9 legislative oversight, and we have the right as 10 well as the responsibility to do that, and the 11 way that it is suggested in this bill makes no 12 sense. 13 The Department is in opposition 14 to it, and as in prior years if we can get rid 15 of perhaps these one-house bills early in the 16 session and in order to justify the fact that 17 we're in session, I would urge a no vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 19 bill. Read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 3 are Senators 4 Connor, Espada, Galiber, Gold, Gonzalez, Halper 5 in, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, 6 Ohrenstein, Onorato, and Oppenheimer. Ayes 41, 7 nays 13. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 4, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 536. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay - 13 explanation. 14 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 15 the Agriculture and Markets Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Tuesday's 18 calendar, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 20 sorry. I didn't hear you, Senator Kuhl. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Tuesday's 22 calendar, please. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 10, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill 572, an act to 2 amend the Tax Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 6 second. You want an explanation? Yeah. Can we 7 get a brief explanation, please? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Daly, an explanation has been asked for. 10 SENATOR DALY: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 This would increase the sales tax 13 in Monroe County from 7.5 percent to 8 percent 14 on March 1st of this year. 15 I think the background of the 16 bill is very important. First, back in the 17 early part of 1992, the county executive of 18 Monroe County requested that the sales tax in 19 Monroe County be increased from 7 to 8 percent. 20 There was a disagreement within Monroe County at 21 that time, basically between the county 22 executive, some of the county -- members of the 23 county legislature, and some of the delegation 1 from Albany. 2 The agreement was finally reached 3 that Monroe County would have its sales tax 4 increased from 7 to 7.5 percent immediately as 5 of last year, but in the budget they would build 6 in an increase to 8 percent if -- if the joint 7 -- a bipartisan commission, a blue ribbon 8 commission, would study the cost of government 9 in Monroe County and determine that the county 10 executive's projection was within 15 percent of 11 what the projection originally had been. 12 The blue ribbon commission made 13 the study and determined that, yes, the deficit 14 in Monroe County was within 15 percent of the 15 findings of the county executive. Therefore, 16 there was an agreement reached at that time. 17 I would point out that the legis 18 lature in Monroe County in 1992 was controlled 19 by the Democratic Party and there was a biparti 20 san agreement that with the commission -- with 21 the amount of the deficit being within that 15 22 percent figure, that everyone would agree to 23 increasing the 7.5 to 8 percent this year 1 because it's in the same fiscal year for the 2 last three-quarters of the 1993 fiscal year. 3 The county legislature became 4 Republican in January of this year. They, this 5 last week, passed a home rule resolution similar 6 to the home rule resolution passed by the 7 Democratic-controlled county legislature in 8 1992, this time requesting that the sales tax 9 should be increased to 8 percent. 10 That's the purpose of this bill. 11 Mr. President, I would point out that for the 12 county of Monroe to meet its financial obliga 13 tions, it's important that this one half of one 14 percent go into effect on March 1st of this 15 year. That is only one month away, and with the 16 law -- with the requirements of law where time 17 is involved in the proper actions that have to 18 be taken, we have to pass this bill this week 19 for the one half of one percent increase to take 20 effect on March 1st. 21 Most importantly, Mr. President, 22 this increase has been agreed upon, has been 23 approved by the business and labor sectors of 1 Monroe County. There is a consensus that to not 2 increase the sales tax would result in a 3 horrendous increase in the property tax. 4 Now, there is $87 million in the 5 Monroe County budget which is not contractual or 6 there by mandate. If this bill does not pass 7 and the sales tax is not increased to 8 percent 8 on March 1st, then the county executive and the 9 county legislature will have to reduce or take 10 out of that $81 million, $27 million and I'm 11 sure you will agree with me, Mr. President, that 12 this would have unusually bad repercussions in 13 Monroe County where many of the services, the 14 sheriff's road patrol, the parks, would have to 15 absolutely be obliterated. 16 Monroe County has no alternative, 17 Mr. President. The sales tax -- I should say the 18 property tax for the year has been set; that 19 cannot be changed. We all know you can't borrow 20 money, you can't have revenue anticipation notes 21 unless you have revenue that you can put on the 22 table. Monroe County does not have that 23 revenue. 1 This should not be a political or 2 partisan issue. I point out again that it was 3 approved by a Democratically-controlled 4 legislature in 1992, that an agreement was 5 signed, signed by members of the legislature and 6 also by members of the -- I should say of the 7 county legislature and by members of this 8 Legislature. 9 We now ask, Mr. President, that 10 the members of this Legislature live up to the 11 commitment they made to the people of Monroe 12 County when they signed that paper back in 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 First of all, I welcome my 19 colleague from Niagara Falls to Monroe County 20 and perhaps occasionally to the Byzantine 21 politics we find there. I'm one of those 22 Democrats that sat in the county legislature for 23 the last year and watched the issue of the sales 1 tax evolve, and I rise today to -- to suggest 2 that there be a "no" vote on this resolution and 3 on this bill. 4 The issue of financing the sales 5 tax and how the county was going to finance its 6 operations was a decision made by the county 7 executive that he would require a full year at a 8 penny of the sales tax. That was his decision. I 9 voted against it when I voted against the county 10 budget last year. 11 The question that was raised by 12 my colleague from Niagara Falls about the 13 supposed agreement, I never signed an 14 agreement. I was never party to such an 15 agreement. I don't feel bound by an agreement 16 made by someone else that I don't believe is in 17 the public interest. 18 Now, there are other 19 alternatives. I won't go into them. The 20 horrendous budget picture that my colleague from 21 Niagara Falls pictures or paints is certainly 22 one that could be dealt with in a myriad of 23 other different ways without having to assess 1 this additional tax. 2 I've had a conference with the - 3 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Daly, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR DALY: I submit to my 7 colleague that I'm not from Niagara Falls. I 8 wish you would find out where I really live. If 9 he would now announce from the floor my address, 10 I'd really appreciate it. It's not Niagara 11 Falls. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse my 13 misreference, Mr. President. It's part of 14 getting to know my neighbor. 15 It seems to me that the issue is, 16 is the tax needed? In my judgment, both as a 17 member of the county legislature and currently 18 as a member of this body, it is not. I would 19 ask my -- the sponsor of it just one other 20 question: Is there an Assembly bill containing 21 the proposed increase in the sales tax? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Daly, will you yield? 1 SENATOR DALY: Yes, I will, Mr. 2 President. 3 No, Mr. President, there is not 4 an Assembly bill, and I submit to you that the 5 fact that there's not an Assembly bill just 6 shows the irresponsibility of the Monroe County 7 delegation in the other house. May I also ask my 8 colleague from Monroe County to yield, Mr. 9 President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Do you 11 care to yield to Senator Daly? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure. 13 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, the 14 27 to $31 million I mentioned before that - 15 that is, that will be gained from this one half 16 of one percent increase in sales tax is already 17 in the Monroe County budget put there by a 18 Democratically controlled Legislature. Could my 19 colleague please tell me where we will get that 20 $31 million to run the county of Monroe for the 21 last nine months of this year if we renege on 22 this agreement that his party leaders made? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd be glad 1 to, Mr. President. 2 First of all, I didn't make that 3 agreement. Two, I don't know who made it on 4 behalf of my party. I certainly don't feel 5 bound to it since I wasn't a party of it. I was 6 involved in all the discussions and all the 7 negotiations by the county executive about the 8 use of the sales tax in 1992. Safe to say, we 9 had wide and varied disagreements about how the 10 deficit should be financed and what tools, what 11 financial tools, should be used to make up for 12 the needed cash. We've already had that 13 discussion, and I know that my colleague, he 14 participated in a meeting that we had as 15 recently as Friday, in which I made proposals to 16 the county executive about how to use the 17 taxes. That's part of the reason why I'm going 18 to vote against it. 19 I believe that the issues 20 relating to the use of the sales tax in Monroe 21 County are not being properly addressed in this 22 legislation. I think there are future 23 consequences of long-term financing problems 1 that the county is going to have to deal with, 2 that this body is going to have to deal with, 3 and we ought to do it now. I urged the county 4 executive to do it now. He did not respond to 5 my request and, under those circumstances, I'm 6 going to be casting a "no" vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Nozzolio, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 10 will Senator Dollinger yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 12 you yield? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure. I'm 14 new at this game, so I'll yield. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 Senator Dollinger, do you believe 18 or at least have you heard of the concept of 19 home rule? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Absolutely. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Do you believe 22 in that concept, Senator? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I do. 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Is it not the 2 concept of home rule, as you understand it, that 3 requires local units of government in this state 4 to make certain decisions and have the state 5 legislature respect those decisions? 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, if I 7 can, in responding to that question, it's my 8 understanding, and I -- again, now, excuse my 9 newness to the situation -- that Monroe County, 10 when I was in the county legislature, passed a 11 number of home rule messages that were acted 12 upon by the New York State Assembly and that 13 were never acted upon by the New York State 14 Senate. That's my understanding. 15 If it's a concept of home rule 16 that the Senate and Assembly approve every 17 message, every detail that comes out of local 18 government, then I need to be instructed and 19 educated on that, but from my colleagues in the 20 Assembly I understand that not to be the case. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 22 Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DALY: Thank you, Mr. 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Daly, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 5 would ask my colleague to yield again, and I'm 6 going to ask him a question, same question I 7 asked him last time, Mr. President, but before 8 that, my first question is, tell me one home 9 rule message that came out - 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll - 11 SENATOR DALY: Let me finish the 12 question, Mr. President. 13 Name one home rule message sent 14 down by Monroe County that this house has 15 refused to accept, number one question, and 16 number two question -- you can answer them both 17 at the same time. I'm going to repeat my first 18 question, because obviously you didn't hear it. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Oh, I clearly 20 heard it. 21 SENATOR DALY: Would you - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 23 on. We've got two questions going here. 1 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 2 would my colleague from Monroe County please 3 tell me how the county of Monroe is going to 4 make up the 31 million, the 27 million, the $3 5 million that's in their budget for this fiscal 6 year if we don't pass a sales tax? 7 I asked that question once 8 before. I obviously did not get an answer. I 9 request -- I repeat the question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Dollinger, do you care to answer the question? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure. Do I 13 have a choice as to how I answer them? I guess I 14 do. 15 Let me answer the second one the 16 same way I answered it the first time. I have a 17 disagreement with the county executive about how 18 to finance the deficit, about whether the 19 additional half cent sales tax is needed. I 20 voted against the county budget on that basis. I 21 stand here, consistent with that earlier vote, 22 to vote again in this case. 23 With respect to the first one, 1 I'll simply have to provide the information from 2 my colleagues in the Assembly. 3 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 4 will my colleague yield for one more question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 6 you yield for one question? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it the 8 same question that I've already answered twice. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I don't 10 know. 11 SENATOR DALY: I would suggest, 12 Mr. President, that he read the rules of the 13 house. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Well, 15 do you yield for another question? 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll refuse 17 to yield at this time. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: He does 19 not care to yield, Senator Daly. 20 SENATOR DALY: I don't blame 21 him. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd simply 23 close by asking my colleagues to vote "no" on 1 this measure. I believe that there are other 2 alternatives. There are other discussions under 3 way and certainly in this chair, as a former 4 member of the Monroe County Legislature and as a 5 member of this body elected by people within 6 Monroe County, I don't believe this is in the 7 best interests of our residents. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Jones, and then Senator Nozzolio. 10 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President, I 11 find myself in a very unusual position today, 12 but I am standing to ask this body to approve 13 the Monroe County request for a tax increase. 14 I also was on the county 15 legislature. While I did not agree with how 16 this came about or some of the other things that 17 happened, nevertheless the majority in that 18 legislature did vote for this budget. I was not 19 one of them, nor was Mr. Dollinger. 20 The deficit is there, and the 21 money has been spent in this year's budget. I 22 can't accept the things that would have to be 23 cut if this tax increase doesn't come about, 1 which is sheriff's road patrols, social 2 services, child protectives, the areas that are 3 important to me. 4 The way I feel, while I agree 5 with my colleague on many of the points he's 6 raised at this point, I feel that this has to go 7 through and I certainly would like to go on 8 record as saying I would not support a further 9 one next year without some distribution, but at 10 this point I feel there's no sense crying over 11 spilt milk. We should support this. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Nozzolio. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Excuse me, Mr. 15 President, on the bill. 16 Mr. President, my colleagues, we 17 have before us a measure, not to discuss its 18 merits, but to discuss whether it's validly 19 before this body, a home rule message enacted on 20 the 19th of January of this year has requested 21 from the Monroe County Legislature and signed by 22 the County Executive, our support for this 23 legislation. 1 It's not for us to decide how an 2 individual county will distribute its funds and 3 how it will collect those funds. Lord knows we 4 could do a good job or a better job in this 5 Legislature, refusing to allow counties to have 6 more and more mandates placed upon them. That is 7 our role. Our role is not to second guess a 8 county legislature or a county executive as to 9 how they will distribute their funds, how they 10 will budget their -- and allocate their 11 resources. 12 My colleague, Mr. Dollinger, I 13 respect the fact that you were a member of the 14 Monroe County Legislature. I respect the fact 15 that you have made decisions in the past 16 relative to budgetary matters for that county. 17 However, I do not believe that opposition to a 18 home rule measure should be based other than 19 whether or not it's validly before us. It's not 20 the role of this body to second guess county 21 legislatures. Maybe because you come from that 22 body, you believe you have that right, but I 23 believe in the concept of home rule. I believe 1 in the concept of local governments making their 2 decisions without intrusion from the state, and 3 that that's what we have before us, Mr. 4 President, and that's why I, as a representative 5 of a town of Monroe County, support this bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 9 -- I'm glad we're having this debate early 10 because one of the -- one of the little tasks 11 which I don't need, but which I seem to get 12 every year, is to pass the tracking, what 13 happens to Democratic bills that come from the 14 localities, and their home rule messages and why 15 they don't somehow get out of committees so 16 quickly. So I'm delighted to hear the members 17 of the Majority party standing up for home rule, 18 and I heard our last gentleman, Senator 19 Nozzolio, I believe it is, say that he doesn't 20 want to second guess localities. That is 21 certainly encouraging for those of us on this 22 side who are going to have to put in those 23 bills. 1 Senator Daly, I know that you 2 have been very cooperative in the past. I guess 3 your comments today are going to be a new high 4 water mark for Democrats with local bills this 5 year. But I want to say one thing in all 6 fairness. 7 The Constitution of this state, 8 which we all swore to uphold, creates a 9 two-level system, and the localities make their 10 home rule requests to the Legislature, and if 11 the Constitution wanted that to become law upon 12 its being filed with the Secretary of State, 13 they could have done it. If the Constitution 14 wanted the localities to do anything they wanted 15 to, I guess they could have done it. So there 16 is unquestionably, by Constitution, an oversight 17 that we have, and I think that it makes no sense 18 to talk to a Senator like Senator Dollinger and 19 tell him that he's bound by something that was 20 done on a local level and he must zip his mouth 21 and not dare utter the thoughts of his 22 conscience or his mind. I mean we all do that 23 as it suits us from day to day and on issue by 1 issue. 2 So the issue here is a simple 3 one. There are a number of representatives from 4 the area who apparently have different opinions 5 and each of us will decide how we will vote on 6 the issues. But I think that we ought to at 7 least have the playing field level. If home 8 rule was sacrosanct in all situations, I'd like 9 to know that from the Majority, and it will make 10 my job easier this year, because I won't have to 11 explain to members on my side why their bills 12 are delayed. 13 If we're allowed to debate these 14 issues, then don't resent it when it happens 15 with the bills that come out on your side 16 because it's going to have a level playing field 17 in 1993. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Last section. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Hoffmann. 21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'm not 22 familiar with this particular bill or the 23 current problems in Monroe County that have 1 brought this action to Monroe County today but 2 I'm familiar with a similar situation that 3 occurred over the last several years in one of 4 the jurisdictions in the 48th Senate District, 5 and I recognize that there's sometimes a 6 changing political landscape and a changing 7 fiscal picture that we don't always understand 8 on first blush and is sometimes not totally 9 comprehended by even those people who are voting 10 on it at the local level before it comes to our 11 attention. 12 The issue that Senator Jones 13 raised about the lack of apportionment of some 14 of the revenue, I think, is a very significant 15 one. She indicates personal reservations about 16 the way this is being handled and clearly goes 17 on notice about how it will be handled in the 18 future, and I particularly respect Senator 19 Dollinger's courage in being able to rise on 20 this floor and say that he will vote against a 21 home rule message in light of his own personal 22 experience as a member of the governing body 23 that has sent it to us. 1 I am, and clearly he has been, 2 sent to this chamber by a large number of people 3 in the County of Monroe who respect his 4 judgment. I believe that some of us owe him the 5 courtesy of showing that respect in this chamber 6 today. Therefore, I will vote "no" along with 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 9 bill. Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 10 are Senators 17 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Libous and Montgomery. 18 Ayes 54, nays 4. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Kuhl. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 1 May I have unanimous consent to 2 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 3 14, Bill Number 173, please? 4 SENATOR GOLD: No objection. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 6 objection, Senator Kuhl will be in the negative 7 on Calendar 14. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Padavan. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'd like to 12 make the same request that I be recorded in the 13 negative on Calendar 14. 14 SENATOR GOLD: No objection. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 16 objection, Senator Padavan is in the negative. 17 Senator Smith. 18 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I 19 would request unanimous consent to be recorded 20 in the negative on Calendar Number 3 and 21 Calendar Number 13. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 and 23 13, Senator Smith in the negative. Is that it? 1 Senator Present, that concludes 2 the -- I'm sorry, O.K. We have to, where are we 3 at? 4 The Secretary will read Number 5 11, Calendar Number 11. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 11, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 64, an 8 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Explanation. Senator Volker. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President - 13 Mr. President, this is a bill which passed the 14 Senate last year pursuant to a proposal out of 15 the city of New York which related to problems 16 of transportation of police officers in the city 17 who are testifying, police officers who were not 18 victims of crime or witnesses to the crime 19 itself. Basically they're police officers who 20 would testify as to chain of evidence and things 21 of that nature, and the way it would work would 22 be, as Senator Gold well knows, would be that 23 they would testify with an audio/video hook-up 1 from a police station or a set location to the 2 grand jury. The grand jury would not be visible 3 from the other end. The prosecutor would be 4 visible. The defendant would obviously be not 5 visible either. 6 This is not something, by the 7 way, that would be used on an extensive basis 8 because not everybody would have the wherewithal 9 to use this sort of operation. That's basically 10 what the bill is. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, this bill we 15 did have last year and Senators Babbush, 16 Connor, Galiber and myself and Gonzalez, 17 Halperin, Leichter, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, and 18 Smith voted in the negative. It is supported by 19 the mayor. The Association of the Bar of the 20 City of New York Criminal Justice Operation and 21 Budget Committee has urged us to oppose it. It 22 was debated at length, and I don't see any 23 necessity to continue it. If somebody wants to 1 do it, of course, I can't cut them off. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 11 are Senators 12 Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, 13 Santiago and Smith. Ayes 51, nays 7. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Galiber. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. May I 20 have unanimous consent to be recorded in the 21 negative on Calendar Number 13, page 6? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 23 objection, Senator Galiber will be in the 1 negative on Calendar Number 13. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 12, by Senator Halperin, Senate Bill - 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside at 8 the request of the sponsor. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 10 that bill aside at the request of the sponsor. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 18, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 207, 13 an act to amend the Penal Law. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Explanation by Senator Holland. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, as you 18 know, this bill comes up every year and the 19 question of it is really the unfairness of the 20 laws that control the carrying of pistol permits 21 throughout the state of New York, and the 22 problem is that, if you are issued a pistol 23 permit in the state of New York, you can carry 1 it at your will in the 62 counties of the state, 2 but if you are issued a pistol permit in any of 3 the 57 other counties, you can carry it -- you 4 can not carry it in the city of New York. 5 I believe that's totally unfair 6 and should be corrected. Not only can you not 7 carry it, but if you are passing through the 8 city of New York, you must lock up that -- it's 9 going to take you a little bit longer, Senator, 10 but you have to lock up that pistol permit in a 11 lock box, a different kind of lock box. 12 As a former county clerk, I 13 assisted in the consolidation of the issuance of 14 pistol permits in the county of Rockland, and we 15 were successful in reducing the time, the 16 issuing time, from 13 months to three months. 17 It still takes at least three months to issue a 18 pistol license in any county of the state of New 19 York and, in doing that, each individual 20 applicant must pay a fee. They must have their 21 fingerprints taken. Those fingerprints are 22 checked with the F.B.I. They are checked with 23 the BCI. In our county, the request also goes 1 to the Department of Mental Health and they are 2 checked there. In our county, also, you must 3 have a letter from your spouse -- in our county 4 you must also have a letter from your spouse 5 giving his or her authorization for you to be 6 issued a pistol license. You must also take a 7 safety course that not only teaches you safety, 8 but how to handle the weapon as well. 9 If, in fact -- if, in fact, 10 someone who is issued a pistol license ever 11 creates a crime -- commits a crime, that pistol 12 license, that pistol and pistol license is taken 13 away from the individual immediately, and you 14 can bring up as many points as you want to, but 15 you'll find that the percentages of people who 16 are issued pistol licenses do not commit crimes 17 in the state of New York, and that's the reason 18 I think it should be -- it would be fair to do 19 it statewide rather than just -- rather than two 20 states, as we're doing right now. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Gold, on the bill. 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 2 won't talk on the bill, but I would like Senator 3 Dollinger to particularly, Senator, take a look 4 at our Minority report on this bill and, if you 5 want an explanation of what home rule is, Senat 6 or Dollinger, you'll notice that the mayor of 7 the city of New York has told this Legislature 8 not to pass this. When the Republican party gets 9 through voting in this house today, you'll 10 understand what home rule means. 11 Senator Holland, as you may know, 12 last year I got quite a bit involved in gun 13 issues, and the bottom line of it all is that I 14 don't have any objection to a system which gets 15 legitimate people their licenses quicker. I 16 really don't. I have some ideas about what that 17 system ought to do. I'm not going to review them 18 today, but it really comes down to one simple - 19 really simple argument: 20 The city of New York welcomes 21 visitors from upstate. It welcomes visitors 22 from all over this country, but it says to you, 23 Please come down; leave your guns at home. Your 1 safety is our problem. If you don't think we're 2 doing a good job, don't visit us. The only - 3 if the only way you will come to visit us is 4 with your gun and it is not registered within 5 the city of New York the way we want it done, 6 don't come. 7 That's not a difficult argument 8 to understand. It's not very deep. It's 9 simple. We have our share of guns. We're 10 trying to get them off the street. Virginia, 11 under Governor Wilder, is maybe going to 12 cooperate a little bit because it's turned out 13 that many of the guns we have problems with come 14 from there. Congressman Ackerman, former member 15 of this house, and others are trying to make the 16 Virginia idea a national idea. 17 And, Senator, there are 18 differences in who has these guns, where they 19 come from. We understand all of that. We 20 understand all of that. All we're saying, which 21 apparently your side of the aisle and in all 22 fairness, some of the people on this side from 23 upstate, do not want to understand is that we 1 want the self -- same self-same right to 2 determination that Senator Daly preached to us 3 about a few minutes ago with Monroe County, and 4 I voted to support that home rule resolution 5 from Monroe County, and I'm asking you to 6 support the mayor of the City. 7 Now, there are some elected 8 representatives in this house from the city of 9 New York, and they're going to speak their minds 10 or they may, and they may tell you not to listen 11 to the mayor, just as Senator Dollinger said 12 that he disagreed with the local council in 13 Monroe County. 14 But why don't you take the 15 opportunity, Senator Holland and some of my 16 other colleagues, to demonstrate to Senator 17 Dollinger and Senator Espada, and the other new 18 people on this side and even the members on your 19 side, that logic means that, when you change the 20 labels, it doesn't matter. 21 The logic is still there. You 22 have preached to us earlier today about the 23 validity of home rule. I want to see you do it 1 here and, if you're going to spite the city of 2 New York by not coming down to visit us because 3 we won't let you pack your sidearm, you know, on 4 your belt or we won't let you tote some other 5 gun around without a license, then we will have 6 to bear the brunt of that spite, but today you 7 can prove your sincerity to home rule by voting 8 in opposition to this. 9 There were 17 people who voted 10 against it last year. I hope we will continue 11 to oppose this bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Montgomery. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 15 you, Mr. President. 16 Just very briefly, I don't want 17 the -- this moment to pass when Senator Holland 18 brings up this annual bill from the Republican 19 side that I should not be on record in 20 opposition to this legislation and I suppose one 21 of the reasons why it's particularly important 22 for me to be on record specifically opposing 23 this legislation is because I probably have one 1 of the highest crime areas that I represent in 2 the City and, in fact, I have, perhaps one of 3 the areas where the most children and young 4 people are killed with guns. 5 Now, I'm not in any way 6 suggesting that the people who are killed are 7 killed by people from your district or from 8 upstate. That's not the point. But, Senator 9 Holland, you say that the people who have 10 permits and have guns that are legal, quote 11 unquote, are not the ones who kill, and I 12 certainly agree with that but, as you know, most 13 guns are at one point or other at their original 14 point of purchase legal even if they're 15 purchased in Virginia or wherever and even if 16 they're purchased by whomever with a permit or 17 what have you, whatever is required, but the 18 problem is that they end up in the hands of 19 people who want to commit illegal acts, by and 20 large, or they are sold to them or they are 21 stolen by them. 22 So the problem is not that we 23 don't welcome your constituents and people from 1 upstate in the City, but we do not welcome their 2 guns. We do not want any additional weapons on 3 the streets of the city of New York. I believe 4 that's why the mayor has taken this position. 5 There is no reason for hunters to bring their 6 weapons to New York. 7 This, I know that you've said 8 this is a civil rights issue. If you have a 9 right to carry your gun upstate, you should have 10 a right to carry it in the City. We have a home 11 rule which says that you must have an additional 12 permit; otherwise you have to put your weapon in 13 a lock box or leave it at your home upstate. 14 It is for the purpose of trying 15 to make the streets of New York City a little 16 bit safer and, as I said to you last year, last 17 session, and I repeat again to you this session, 18 because it is still the case, I have a young son 19 and I am afraid to take him out to ride his 20 bicycle because he may get shot, not by anybody 21 from your district who aims to kill him, but 22 because, like a principal in the district that I 23 represent was shot cold-blooded dead while he 1 was trying to help a child, and he wasn't shot 2 intentionally. It was sheer accidental. But the 3 gun was in the hand of a person who should not 4 have had that gun. I don't know where the gun 5 came from, but I am sure that that gun at some 6 point had a permit, a person who purchased it 7 had a permit to purchase it and to use it. 8 So, Senator Holland, this is not 9 a civil rights issue. To me, it is an issue of 10 safety, of people in our city, and we do not 11 want you or anybody to come into the city of New 12 York with a gun without a due permit certified 13 by the city of New York and, furthermore, I 14 would like to see guns off the streets, period. 15 But short of that, this legislation that you're 16 proposing clearly, clearly is putting the people 17 in the city of New York in more danger. 18 It adds an additional set of 19 weaponry on our streets, and we ask you not to 20 do this bill, not to vote for it. I ask my 21 colleagues for the sake of the -- your concern 22 for the safety of the children and the family, 23 the women and the people in the city of New 1 York, and because especially the mayor is 2 opposed to it. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Volker, and then Senator Galiber. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I will 6 certainly be very brief. 7 Senator Montgomery, I want you to 8 know something, and I know we've said this 9 before. We certainly don't have to say it. I 10 certainly understand your sincerity on this 11 issue, and I understand your frustration. So 12 that you don't think that the city of New York 13 is the only place where gun activity is going on 14 at a heightened -- to a heightened extent, we're 15 having very similar problems in the city of 16 Buffalo. In fact, we had an attack on a police 17 station back in the fall that was designed to 18 petrify the people of the area, and it did. 19 There have been a whole series of shootings. 20 But just one thing I would like 21 to correct, and I think it has to be said, and I 22 understand the problem with guns and bullets and 23 all that sort of thing. We have tried, those of 1 us that are in criminal justice, to find some 2 possible link between legal weapons and crime. 3 The response that you get from virtually 4 everybody who is trying to be responsible is 5 that the number of licensed weapons that are 6 used in crime is so small as to be totally 7 negligible. 8 The problem with this issue is 9 not the weapon. The problem is that the 10 perpetrators, the people who are involved with 11 this, have become so crass for human life that 12 whether it's guns or knives or whatever it is, 13 the whole system to a certain extent has got out 14 of control, and I could give you some reasons 15 why I think this has happened, and I understand 16 that we tend to feel that maybe here's something 17 that we can grasp onto that somehow these guns 18 maybe are something that we can grasp onto. 19 The problem is it's not the guns. 20 It is the attitudes and the people who have 21 developed the concepts that life means nothing, 22 that life truly meanings nothing, and that's 23 something that we have to deal with. We have to 1 deal with it in our schools, we have to deal 2 with it in our criminal justice system. 3 It's something that the Senate, 4 as the Senate Majority, has been saying to the 5 administration of this state. You can't let 6 violent criminals out of our system and call it 7 second felony offender reform. You can't play 8 games with this issue, it's too dangerous, but 9 the point I think I'm trying to get to is, I 10 understand your frustration, but you can pass 11 all the laws that says somehow you're going to 12 license guns, you're going to make them 13 illegal. 14 You can do all those things. 15 There is little proof in this world, none - 16 Washington supposedly has the toughest gun laws 17 in the United States of America and, by the way, 18 we did before then, we're supposed to have the 19 second toughest gun law in the United States of 20 America, and yet they have the most murders per 21 capita of any place in the country. They have 22 confiscatory gun laws in there and it certainly 23 hasn't helped very much there. 1 My point is that the only 2 objection I have to your statement that somehow 3 the gun that killed somebody some place was 4 licensed. 99.99 percent of the guns that are 5 used in the criminal activities have never been 6 licensed. They are weapons that are illegal 7 weapons from day one and, by the way, that goes 8 for guns and it goes for knives, and it goes for 9 any of these kinds of things, so I just would 10 like to point that out. 11 Obviously, you know, the city of 12 New York has the right to argue on these 13 issues. The city of New York has the right but 14 there is one problem that always bothered me. 15 When I was a police officer until just recently 16 when there were court cases, I could carry my 17 gun any place in the state of New York except at 18 that time the most dangerous place in New York 19 State, which is the city of New York, and I 20 always said, "This is ridiculous," and they said 21 "Well, it's our rules. What can I tell you? 22 Some police officers are dangerous people." I 23 said, "Come on, come on." 1 It's the sham; it's the 2 attitude. It's the -- the attitudes that the 3 City has had that they can't deal with certain 4 parts of crime, so they have deal with it on the 5 nice little public area which is that somehow 6 you can wipe guns off the street. I'll tell 7 you, if I could find a way, Senator Montgomery, 8 that I could get rid of all the guns in the 9 streets with one such law, I'd be the most happy 10 person in the world. 11 But, Senator, there is no such 12 law. Abe Bernstein and I argued for years; 13 there is no such law. The only laws that are 14 going to change are the laws that are going to 15 deal with people, not with weapons. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, Senator 19 Holland. Would you yield for one or two 20 questions? 21 Senator, in your capacity as a 22 state Senator and also in your former capacity 23 as county clerk, could you give us a guesstimate 1 or an estimate as to the population of Rockland 2 County as compared to the population of the city 3 of New York? 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: It's about 8 5 million to 265,000. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: 265,000 in 7 Rockland County, 8 million. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: 7 or 8 million 9 in the city of New York. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: 8 million, 7 11 million in the city of New York. Of those 12 200,000 residents that you have in Rockland 13 County, could you give us an estimate as to how 14 many of them commute each day from Rockland to 15 the city of New York? 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: No, I really 17 don't. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: You can not. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: I've seen 20 11,000, but I don't know whether that's true or 21 not. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Would you say a 23 good number? I know a lot of my constituents 1 finally made it and moved up in your county. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Good. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, if you 4 were to receive this bill, probably, not to 5 receive but if this bill were to become law, is 6 it conceivable that those persons in your county 7 and other counties of the 62 or '-1 that you 8 have mentioned, would be able to get permits for 9 the new 9 millimeter guns that shoot 15 or 16 10 shots in a clip? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator - 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would 13 you be able to get that gun? 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: I seriously 15 doubt it. As you know, and I don't have to tell 16 you this, in the 62 counties, city of New York a 17 judge or the chief of police has to authorize. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Did you say the 19 police commissioner? 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: The police 21 commissioner in the city of New York, yes, the 22 police commissioner has to authorize it, and 23 they will not authorize it unless there is a 1 need. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: But you don't 3 know whether or not they would be eligible. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: I can't see in 5 somebody's mind, but I doubt it. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: But it's 7 possible, would you agree? 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: It certainly is 9 with a revolver or pistol, yes. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, one 11 other question: When you were county clerk, how 12 long were you county clerk? 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: I was nine 14 years as county clerk, and six years as deputy. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: I mean I want 16 to say we're glad to have you here. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Me too. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: We don't want 19 you to go back and be county clerk. 20 On the bill, Mr. President, and 21 thank you, Senator. 22 Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1 Galiber. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: This is a 3 simple matter and everybody is trying to distort 4 the notion, talking in terms of violent terms 5 with it, and Senator Montgomery has an interest 6 which I agree one hundred percent with her. We 7 all talk about home rule and how we expected it 8 and you were a county clerk, you are a Senator. 9 Senator Gold had mentioned we 10 just finished a home rule kind of concept and I 11 know this bill. I've been here long enough to 12 be able to count. I know where it's going to go, 13 but we've got to voice an objection, especially 14 when there's an attempt to distort not on your 15 part, Senator, but to suggest to us that we 16 can't handle our problem and also again to 17 suggest that we now are talking about second 18 felonies, that has absolutely nothing to do with 19 this piece of legislation. 20 What it has to do with is central 21 government in the city of New York. We have a 22 law, a rule, a regulation which says that the 23 police commissioner has the authority and the 1 discretion to issue gun permits. How dare you 2 come from another county and suggest to us that 3 we vitiate that discretion that our police 4 commissioner has? Can you imagine going to 5 Buffalo and telling us, Let's ignore the police 6 commissioner? Or Rockland County? 7 Guns don't kill. People kill. 8 We all understand that. We don't need the 9 elementary lessons that are being suggested 10 here. The fact of the matter is that you want to 11 take our local government which has rules and 12 regulations, and says for better or worse, you 13 can not bring a gun into the city of New York 14 unless you clear with us. 15 Now, I can do a nice easy 16 argument, never mind the violence in Buffalo and 17 shooting up police stations and changin' the 18 criminal justice system or the Department of 19 Correction. Those are all specious kinds of 20 arguments. That's not what's in issue here. 21 What's in issue is a simple fact. We have 22 absolutely no right, no right whatsoever to talk 23 about or pass regulations, laws, rules, here 1 which impact on our local government unless they 2 say so. That's what home rule is all about. 3 We have some personal concerns 4 about how dangerous it is. People nudge each 5 other. They rub up against each other a little 6 more, 8 million more push and shove each other a 7 little more than 200-some-odd thousand people. 8 The risk is there. 9 We've had attitudes and we 10 discussed the death penalty. Well, if we kill 11 off one person who is innocent, so be it. 12 That's what's suggested here, that if one person 13 gets hurt, so what? The rest of them are not 14 going to get hurt. 15 We've got a serious problem in 16 the city of New York. But more than that, more 17 than that, do not come into any local government 18 -- because you would be the first one to object 19 -- and say, Never mind what the police 20 commissioner of the city of New York said. We 21 want to override. Even our central government 22 in the last 12 years says, let's give back under 23 New Federalism I, II or III, I don't remember 1 which one it was, let's give back to the states 2 more power, and we feel the same way about our 3 city, and I'm sure you do also. 4 The city of New York has a rule, 5 has a law, has a regulation that says you can 6 not come into the city of New York unless you go 7 through -- if you go through the police 8 commissioner. He has the discretionary power 9 and I don't want to bore you with the revenue 10 aspect of it. That's like talking about 11 changing the criminal justice system. 12 I can tell you, well, look at the 13 revenue we're going to produce because of the 14 license. That's another specious argument. We 15 have absolutely no right, Senator, absolutely no 16 right to go contra to what local government 17 wants unless they ask for it, and they've got a 18 procedure for it, and we don't have the 19 procedure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1 Johnson. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Explain my 3 vote. I want to explain Senator Gold's vote. 4 No, I'd like to speak on this a bit. 5 I find it interesting that the 6 New York City representatives would stand up and 7 say things like, "You don't have to carry a gun 8 when you come to New York City because we're 9 there to protect you." 10 Where have you been, Senator 11 Gold? 2500 people were killed in this state 12 last year and 80 percent of them in New York 13 City. Who was protecting those people? 14 Obviously, you need some kind of protection in 15 New York City, I'd say. 16 The argument was made that - 17 that who are you to think that you should use a 18 New York State license issued in Suffolk or 19 Rockland and carry that gun in New York City 20 without a license? Why should you be able to do 21 that? Senator, because people who have a 22 license issued in New York City can carry that 23 gun in the balance of the state. 1 So I think that's perfectly 2 reasonable that statewide license issued under 3 the statutes we put on the books should be 4 effective statewide. You know, it's kind of 5 interesting, too, that New York City and "Fun 6 City", Washington, D.C., where the Beltway crowd 7 hangs out, and they live in a different world, 8 they also have very restrictive laws concerning 9 licensing of handguns, and New York City and 10 Washington have the most restrictive laws. They 11 have the greatest murder rate per hundred 12 thousand people of any place in the nation. 13 So, obviously, if you do go -- if 14 you go to Washington or New York City, you 15 definitely need some way to protect yourself 16 since -- since killing is indemic there and they 17 say 50 percent by guns or 70 percent, the rest 18 by knives, fists, clubs, feet, whatever is 19 available to the person. These are very 20 dangerous places to go, and certainly if you 21 have a pistol license and you carry it in your 22 home community upstate or on Long Island, you 23 certainly should be permitted to carry it when 1 you enter a danger zone such as New York City. 2 This is a very good bill, and it 3 should be passed. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 8 November. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 18 are Senators 14 Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Galiber, Gold, 15 Halperin, Leichter, Markowitz, Masiello, Mendez, 16 Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Onorato, Oppenheimer, 17 Santiago, Smith, and Solomon. Ayes 41, nays 18 17. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Halperin. 22 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President, 23 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 1 negative on Calendar Number 11, Senate Bill 2 Number 64. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 4 objection, you're in the negative on 11. 5 Senator Solomon. 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 9 on, Senator Solomon. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 11 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 12 negative on Calendar Number 3, Bill 535. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection, Senator Solomon is in the negative on 15 Calendar Number 3. 16 And Senator Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 I have a distinct honor, Mr. 20 President, in making an introduction. We've 21 been joined today by - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 23 on. I'm going to ask for a little quiet. 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 and my colleagues, we've been joined today by a 3 most distinguished visitor that I'd like to 4 introduce to the chamber. It's the Consul 5 General of the Federal Republic of Germany. 6 He's here in connection with the exhibit of the 7 White Rose, and you have all received an 8 invitation on behalf of the Consul General, 9 Senator Ohrenstein and myself. As you know, the 10 White Rose was a very special group of young 11 students that opposed the Nazis in Germany, many 12 of whom were killed. This is an exhibit of 13 pictures and memorabilia, and I think you would 14 find it not only of historical interest but of 15 great human interest. 16 And it's, therefore, a particular 17 pleasure to have with us today the Honorable 18 Erhard Holtermann, the Consul General of the 19 Federal Republic of Germany, and his assistant, 20 Mr. Bernd Fink, who is the Consul. Please 21 welcome them to this chamber, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Mr. 23 President. Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Ohrenstein. 3 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I would like 4 the opportunity to join Senator Leichter in this 5 most warm welcome. Dr. Holtermann and I have 6 worked together now for several years on issues 7 relating to the relationship between the Federal 8 Republic of Germany and the United States of 9 America, and particularly on the relationship 10 between the Federal Republic and the Jewish 11 community here in -- in the United States. 12 It's been a very great pleasure 13 and honor to work with him, and I'm glad he's 14 here for this very, very important event. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Dr. 16 Holtermann, on behalf of the New York State 17 Senate, let me welcome you and your delegation 18 here. We're delighted to have you. We're proud 19 of what you're doing, and thank you very much 20 and come back and visit us again. 21 (Applause) 22 Senator Present, what is your 23 pleasure? We are finished with the Calendar. 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 I move that we stand at ease. I think there's 3 another bill in process of arriving at the 4 Senate. If we stand at ease and not run off too 5 far, I'd appreciate it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 Senate will not adjourn. We will stand at ease 8 awaiting another bill. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator 10 Ohrenstein, do you want to call up now -- Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yeah, 13 Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: There will -- on 15 behalf of Senator Mendez, you want to announce 16 it? There will be an immediate conference of 17 the Minority in the Minority Conference Room. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 Minority will meet in conference right now. 20 We're at ease, not in adjournment. 21 (Whereupon, at 4:19 p.m., the 22 Senate stood at ease.) 23 ...At 4:21 p.m.... 1 SENATOR PRESENT: We recognize 2 Senator Levy, please. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. There will 4 be an immediate meeting of the Transportation 5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: 7 Immediate meeting of the Senate Transportation 8 Committee in the Senate Conference Room. 9 ...At 4:40 p.m.... 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Stavisky. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: Without 14 objection, may I be recorded in the negative on 15 Calendar Number 18? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 17 objection. 18 ...At 5:17 p.m.... 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Stavisky. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Also request 22 permission to be recorded in the negative on 23 Calendar Item Number 3. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Stavisky will be in the negative on Calendar 3 Number 3, without objection. 4 (The Senate reconvened at 5:38 5 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 Senate will come to order. Senators will find 8 their seats. 9 Senator Present, we have - 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we return 11 to reports of standing committees. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We 13 certainly can, sir. The Secretary will read a 14 report of standing committee. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy, 16 from the Committee on Transportation reports the 17 following bill directly for third reading: 18 Senate Bill Number 1022, by Senator Marchi, an 19 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 20 relation to tokens for and tolls imposed by the 21 Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, reported 22 directly for third reading. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1 Directly to third reading. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message at the desk? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 5 is a message at the desk, Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 7 accept the message. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 9 favor of accepting the message, say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message is accepted. 14 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Present - 17 SENATOR PRESENT: May the bill 18 have its third reading at this time. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1 Ohrenstein. 2 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I rise to 3 oppose this legislation as - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Ohrenstein, if I may, may we put the bill on the 6 floor first. 7 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Oh, yes, I 8 thought it was. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 10 Number 1022, Calendar Number 1026, by Senator 11 Marchi, an act to amend the Public Authorities 12 Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Ohrenstein on the bill. 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Mr. 16 President, I believe both Conferences are fully 17 aware of the import of this legislation, and I 18 would like to state my reasons for opposing it. 19 I do want to make clear that I'm speaking as a 20 member of the Senate representing a portion of 21 Manhattan, and I'm not speaking here at the 22 moment as the Minority Leader. 23 This bill grants -- does two 1 things: It continues the discount on the tolls 2 across three bridges in New York City. By the 3 way, the -- it's well known the Triborough 4 Bridge and Tunnel Authority is raising the tolls 5 on all of the bridges under its jurisdiction in 6 the city of New York. There are presently 7 discounts in effect on four bridges in the city 8 of New York, the Varazzano bridge, two bridges 9 in the Rockaways, and the Hudson River bridge 10 coming from the Bronx to Manhattan or vice 11 versa, as the case may be. 12 This bill continues the discount 13 on three of those four bridges, the Varazzano 14 bridge and the two bridges connecting Queens to 15 the Rockaways. It does not continue the 16 discount -- no, it continues the discount on the 17 Henry Hudson bridge as well. 18 With regard to the first three 19 bridges, it does one other thing: It expressly 20 exempts residents of the Rockaways and of Staten 21 Island from the increase of the tolls which is 22 about to take effect. It does not exempt 23 residents of Manhattan or the Hudson River -- or 1 the Bronx from the toll increase over the Hudson 2 River bridge. 3 Now, I have two major objections 4 to this. One has to do -- has to do with the 5 fact that with regard to three bridges, there 6 are not only a continuation of the discount but 7 there are now exemptions from a toll increase 8 which means we are in effect overruling the 9 Triborough Bridge Authority in its attempt to 10 balance its budget. That's one objection. 11 I have a much more comprehensive 12 objection, because we are legislating here at 13 the -- quickly and without due deliberation on 14 an issue which is part of a much larger subject 15 which is before us, and that has to do with the 16 manner in which we deal with the finances of our 17 mass transportation system in the metropolitan 18 region, the MTA, the TA, the Long Island Rail 19 Road, the Westchester railroads, the bridges, et 20 cetera, et cetera. 21 Now, I recall being here in 22 December when for one whole month the Governor 23 pleaded with the Majority in this house to deal 1 with the impending increase of the subway fare 2 in New York City. That increase, as a result of 3 the non-action by the Majority in this house, 4 has been voted on by the MTA, increased from a 5 dollar twenty-five to a dollar fifty. 6 We pleaded -- the Democrats in 7 this Capitol pleaded with the Republican 8 Majority to deal with this issue at that time in 9 order to save the citizens of the city of New 10 York from the agony of some kind of a cliff 11 hanger which will undoubtedly occur here prior 12 to, I guess it's April 1st that the increase has 13 been voted. Prior to April 1st? Is it March 14 1st or April 1st? 15 SENATOR MEGA: April 1st. 16 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: We pleaded 17 with you to save us from this cliffhanger and to 18 deal with this issue at that time. We offered 19 to transfer funds from one entity to another 20 within the MTA system, and finally the Governor 21 offered to eliminate this fare increase by a 22 budget appropriation which he would include in 23 his budget which came down last week. All of 1 the alternatives which were suggested and others 2 which would have been considered were summarily 3 rejected by the leadership of the Majority of 4 this house. 5 To me, picking out one minor 6 issue with regard to this whole question of 7 financing the mass transit operation in the 8 metropolitan region is not only unfair, it is 9 wrong. It is not the way we ought to legislate 10 and I don't believe that the people of Staten 11 Island, if they really understood what was going 12 on, would want to do it that way. I think the 13 people in Staten Island are fair; they're people 14 who are able to make a considered judgment about 15 what is good for them and what is good for the 16 rest of the city of New York. I don't think 17 they want to be special pleaders, and that's the 18 way you're presenting them here, as special 19 pleaders who are getting a special privilege and 20 are being picked out by this Majority for 21 political reasons when we have before us a full 22 plate on very complicated mass transportation 23 issues. 1 We may not agree on all these 2 issues. I respect Senator Levy's chairmanship 3 of this committee and his many many efforts to 4 knowledgeably deal with this issue. But the one 5 thing that we do know is that this issue is one 6 which is of whole cloth. This isn't an issue 7 divided into this, this, this and that. It's an 8 issue which rises on a very comprehensive view 9 of how you're going to deal with financing the 10 Metropolitan Transit Authority and all of the 11 systems with it. 12 We may disagree on issues and 13 we're going to negotiate. That is a clear fact 14 of life. We will negotiate and, as I said in 15 December, we're going to save the fare. I am 16 absolutely confident we're going to save the 17 fare, and I'm willing to predict it. I'm 18 willing to bet on it, but in the meantime we're 19 hanging up millions of people in the city of New 20 York making them wait, making them subject to a 21 cliffhanger while we're taking care of the 22 residents of Staten Island. 23 I don't think that's fair. I 1 think this matter should have been negotiated in 2 December along with the question of the fare 3 increase and - 4 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Mega, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR MEGA: Senator yield to a 8 question? I'd like a clarification. 9 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Could I 10 finish? I'm in mid-flight, Senator. 11 SENATOR MEGA: I know you are. 12 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Could I just 13 come down for a landing? 14 SENATOR MEGA: No, no, I know you 15 are, and I don't want to remove you from your 16 flight. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I only am 18 trying to be light about it. 19 I'll be glad to yield. 20 SENATOR MEGA: Maybe you would 21 want to make an adjustment in your flight. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I don't have 23 a pilot. 1 SENATOR MEGA: I have a son who 2 is a pilot, and he's available to you any time 3 you'd like. 4 You keep referring to the bill is 5 applicable to Staten Island. Are there not 6 other portions of the City involved? 7 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I'll tell 8 you what. 9 SENATOR MEGA: No, there are 10 other portions of the City involved. 11 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No -- let's 12 see, I'll put it where it is. This bill would 13 not be here were it not for the fact that it 14 affects Staten Island. 15 I spoke to the Speaker of the 16 Assembly and he did his job because once the 17 Majority here on this bill -- he talked to the 18 Majority here, he insisted on tacking on Queens, 19 and I don't blame him. He's doing his job. I 20 fully support my colleagues here from Queens for 21 tacking onto this bill, but this is a Staten 22 Island bill. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Galiber. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, I'm trying 4 to understand this. I'm from the outer borough 5 in Bronx County, but I get a feeling we'll be 6 impacted on this. I can't understand. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 8 seems to be a two-way conversation here. 9 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Senator, I 10 tend to explain matters as best as my limited 11 ability will allow me to. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Ohrenstein has the floor, Senator Mega. 14 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, you 15 have the floor. You've answered my question. I 16 think we understand there are other 17 constituencies involved other than Staten 18 Island. You've made that very clear as a result 19 of the question I just asked, and I thank you. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: O.K. Thank 21 you, Senator, and, Senator Mega, I did point 22 that out at the beginning of my discussion but I 23 am -- I also want to say that the -- that this 1 bill would not be here were it not for Staten 2 Island, and that the matter of Queens would, in 3 my opinion, be taken care of when we do the 4 comprehensive settlement that I'm talking 5 about. 6 So to make a long story short, I 7 think I've made my point. We have a major 8 problem here dealing with the financing of the 9 mass transit -- transportation system, as 10 Senator Galiber quite rightly points out in his 11 question. The fact that we are continuing this 12 discount, and that we are now exempting certain 13 residents of the city of New York from the 14 increase affecting their particular residences 15 is going to create a further diminution of the 16 revenues that are available for the mass transit 17 system, for the bridges, and for so on and so 18 forth. 19 Somebody is going to have to pay 20 for it and the only people that I know are going 21 to pay for it are either, in the first instance, 22 the other users of the mass transit facilities, 23 namely, other people who use the bridges who are 1 going to have to pay a higher increase because 2 some people are getting a lower increase. 3 Ultimately it will be paid for by the people who 4 use the subways because they will be under 5 pressure to pay higher fares in order to 6 subsidize these discounts and exemptions and 7 ultimately the people of the state of New York 8 are going to have to pay for these because some 9 of this money, in my opinion, ultimately is 10 going to come out of the general revenues of 11 this -- of this state. 12 So we know how to make these 13 adjustments and we know how to make these 14 trade-offs, and I am not objecting to the 15 trade-offs being put on the table and being 16 negotiated. That is the everyday life that 17 takes place in this Legislature, but I am saying 18 that, if we are negotiating a comprehensive 19 issue, then all parts of the issue ought to be 20 put on the table so that the trade-offs can be 21 fair and can be properly apportioned, and that 22 is not what is happening here. 23 One group of favored people is 1 being picked out here to be benefited while the 2 rest are holding their breath as to what is 3 going to happen to their future or to their 4 pocketbooks and, in my humble opinion -- I have 5 enormous respect for Senator Marchi. He wants 6 Staten Island to secede. I say if that's what 7 you want, I think it's a silly thing, I 8 recommend against it, but if that's what you and 9 Staten Island want, fine, but then pay the price 10 and don't make us pay the price in advance while 11 the rest of the -- of the people of the city of 12 New York are fiddling and are wondering what is 13 going to happen to their future. 14 So I believe this bill is unfair. 15 I think it is uncalled for at this time. I 16 think the matters that are raised in this bill 17 should be put into negotiations and when we 18 settle the whole question of the fare increase, 19 the financing between the suburban railroads and 20 the New York City railroads, while we consider 21 the question of how we pay for the maintenance 22 of the bridges, and so on and so forth, that is 23 the time to consider this and not in this single 1 interest legislation that we have before us. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I do 4 have a list. 5 SENATOR ONORATO: I'd like to ask 6 a question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: O.K. 8 Senator Onorato. 9 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator yield 10 for a question? 11 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Sure. 12 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator, I 13 represent half of Queens County, the northwest 14 portion of Queens County. I have the Triboro 15 Bridge, the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, and now I 16 have inherited the Throgs Neck and the White 17 stone Bridge. Are any of these bridges and 18 tunnels subject to the same type of discount 19 that will be enhanced to the Rockaways and to 20 the Varazzano bridge? 21 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No, sir. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No. I 1 have a list unless you had a question of Senator 2 Ohrenstein. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Ohrenstein releases the floor. 6 Senator Marchi, whose bill this 7 is. 8 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 9 find it very difficult to listen to my good 10 friend, Senator Ohrenstein, say the things that 11 he said. I have too much respect for him, and I 12 know that he is sensitive to human problems, but 13 to say that we are now engaged in special 14 pleading or seeking special privileges, Mr. 15 President, cries to heaven for vengeance, and 16 I'm not engaging in hyperbole. I don't get this 17 excited very often, but we are an island of 18 400,000 people, 400,000. We have been paying 19 loyally on the toll facilities in our rapid 20 transit -- we don't have any subways on Staten 21 Island. You have a pick of buses when they can 22 get to us, and I realize that they're responding 23 to more imperious needs, but to say the things 1 that we are -- we are pleading special privilege 2 in the case of Staten Island when there is no 3 other available alternative, is somewhat the 4 problem that is affecting my friends on your 5 side of the aisle. 6 Do you realize, Senator, that 7 somebody from Tottenville going to -- across the 8 Narrows, maybe they have to go 12 miles before 9 they reach the bridge. You can, from any part 10 of the city of New York, get access. If I come 11 from Montauk Point, I can get to Manhattan 12 without paying a toll. In my county, you can not 13 leave, you can not leave this county; 400,000 14 people have to pay to get off. There is no 15 alternative. No, you don't. You can't walk 16 across. I can't walk across. You may not walk 17 across the bridges that connect us to the other 18 jurisdictions. I -- a lot of youngsters here to 19 swim across the Kill van Kull to New Jersey, a 20 quarter of a mile. You'd die before you got 21 halfway because of the pollution, and then you'd 22 have to skirt a couple billion tons of garbage 23 that are -- that lace that whole shoreline. 1 I don't think there's another 2 community in the United States; I think there is 3 a serious constitutional defect that we have no 4 way, even if we wanted to walk, if we wanted to 5 crawl on our hands and knees, we can not do it 6 from Staten Island. Doesn't anybody understand 7 that? Are you impervious to arguments? 8 And why are we here tonight? Are 9 we here to discuss a full panoply of 10 transportation issues. Yes, there's going to be 11 time for that. You're -- your toll doesn't take 12 effect until April. On December -- on January 13 the 31st, the sword drops and the -- and it 14 moves. There is no way, no way of postponing 15 that date, so that, if we fail to act now, we 16 will have lost our chance. The Assembly was not 17 part of this, but they are responding. The 18 Governor has been most cooperative. 19 Now, I don't think that your 20 party wants to tell the people of Staten Island 21 that they're special pleaders. Is that what 22 you're going to tell them? 23 We have been -- we have made our 1 contribution in tolls. They continue to pay $4 2 for every time they go across that bridge if 3 they get the tokens. Otherwise, it's going to 4 $6, and I'm talking about a lot of families, 5 those of you who represent areas embracing 6 Bensonhurst, the whole -- the whole strip of 7 Brooklyn, numberless families in my county. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Oppenheimer, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would you 11 yield for a question, Senator Marchi? 12 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Is there 14 not a ferry which is subsidized at like 25 cents 15 a ride? I thought there was a ferry to Staten 16 Island. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Are you going to 18 tell me that we don't subsidize the subways on 19 -- in the city of New York? We have a ferry and 20 we pay to get on it. Do you realize that? You 21 don't understand that? 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: What I'm 23 saying, Senator, if you will yield for a second, 1 is that there is an inexpensive mode of 2 transportation, I believe, to Staten Island. 3 SENATOR MARCHI: If you walk to 4 the ferry, you can get on, you can take that, 5 you can take that trip. It's 50 cents if you 6 want to use the ferry, but you have to get 7 there. We have triple fares. Do you pay triple? 8 Well, you're out of the City. You're out of the 9 City. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I pay. 11 SENATOR MARCHI: But we have 12 triple fares at the very best, so we only have 13 toll facilities. As I said, you can not get off 14 the island without paying, and you say that's 15 special privilege. Is that what your party is 16 telling the Democrats in Staten Island, that 17 they're pleaders of special interests? I mean 18 let's be reasonable. I voted for every tax that 19 would support - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Espada, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR ESPADA: I rise for a 23 question, sir. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 2 you yield for a question? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, I will. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Marchi will yield. 6 SENATOR ESPADA: It's your 7 impassioned plea, the passion with which you 8 speak, that causes me to rise and ask you that I 9 had planned to ask for time to oppose this 10 particular matter, but I would rescind -- I 11 would stop myself in my tracks if you would 12 exchange and share that kind of passion for the 13 district that I represent, the South Bronx. 14 You talk about available 15 alternatives. "Available" is a matter -- is a 16 relative matter. It has economic impact in my 17 district. If we have a one twenty-five fare go 18 up to one fifty or $2, that availability would 19 be drastically reduced to the mothers and the 20 children they're working for that have to access 21 not work because they don't have jobs but an 22 emergency room, hospital room, and my question 23 to you, sir, would be that, if you would support 1 me when I get up and my colleagues get up and 2 make impassioned pleas for your side of the 3 aisle to see our pain, to see our needs, then 4 certainly my scheduled opposition to this matter 5 would disappear. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, pure 7 gold what you've said, and I don't think there's 8 a Senator on this side of the aisle that's been 9 around here for any length of time who won't 10 tell you that I have taken direct leadership in 11 meeting the very concerns you speak of. 12 I was the one that signed a 13 contract with Lester Granger, who was the 14 Executive Director of the Urban League and had 15 been Assistant Secretary of Defense, and with 16 his report and the initiatives, and I was joined 17 by Senator Ohrenstein, we brought about open 18 admission, seek and discovery, and a big shake 19 up in the city of New York. 20 I have never been a laggard when 21 it comes to the interests that you represent and 22 that I feel I also represent. We have a like 23 interest in what we're saying and I have never 1 been a foe or an enemy. I've been your friend. 2 You understand that? 3 SENATOR ESPADA: Mine was not an 4 accusation, but a request for your support on a 5 similar matter. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: Well, if you 7 don't -- if you talk -- if you talk with my 8 colleagues who have been here any length of time 9 out of the chamber in personal confidence, you 10 will come and say, "Senator Marchi, I shake your 11 hand because you're telling me the truth, you 12 have been a constant friend." 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Marchi. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: I don't know 16 whether I should go any further, Mr. President. 17 We have no -- tomorrow the Assembly will not be 18 meeting. They are waiting to pass this bill. 19 It's a bill introduced by both houses. It has 20 the blessings of the Governor. I understand that 21 the mayor does not oppose it, but I can not 22 accept the characterization which I'm -- I'm 23 sure that in the true spirit of that adversarial 1 position that you're in, Senator, I forgive in 2 anticipation even before I made the remark, but 3 I had to respond because I feel it, and I don't 4 do this often, but I'm not going to tolerate it, 5 that we are special pleaders in this situation. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Leichter, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 10 President, I've asked the acting Majority Leader 11 if he'd be so good as to have the last section 12 read, so that I may vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection, read the last section. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes, I do 16 agree, but I hope it doesn't become a habit with 17 everybody. Senator Leichter has an important 18 engagement he'd like to meet, so I'll allow it. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Open 20 the roll call for Senator Leichter. Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 23 act shall take effect immediately and shall be 1 deemed to have been in full force and effect on 2 January 30th, 1993. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do 4 you vote, Senator Leichter? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: In the 6 negative, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: In the 8 negative. Close the roll. 9 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Mr. 10 President, we both have to go to a reception 11 which was announced earlier today, but I will be 12 back. I shall return. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Do you 14 wish to vote also? 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: And vote in 16 the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Ohrenstein is also in the negative. Close the 19 roll. Hold on. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator Cook. 21 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Cook votes in the affirmative. 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 2 I'd also like to vote at this time because I 3 have to leave the chamber. In the affirmative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Johnson in the affirmative. That's it, Senator 6 Present? So, over here, but - 7 SENATOR MASIELLO: Masiello. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Present, what's your pleasure? 10 Senator Masiello, how do you 11 vote? 12 SENATOR MASIELLO: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 14 Close the roll. Continue to debate. 15 Senator Smith. 16 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I've 19 got a list here. 20 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I 21 rise in support of this bill for the very simple 22 reason that the residents of Broad Channel now 23 fall within the 12th Senatorial District, and I 1 do not consider them to be favored. I consider 2 them to have been second class citizens in many 3 ways because they are residents of Queens County 4 and, in order for them to go visit their 5 brothers and sisters in the Rockaways or to even 6 go to the post office, because the residents of 7 Rockaway and Broad Channel live within the same 8 zip code, or if their child is in school and 9 happens to be hurt, they have to pay a toll to 10 go to that school to have access to that child. 11 In order to go to a hospital, they have to pay a 12 toll and they live within the same county. To 13 me, that is clearly second class citizenship. 14 We're all parochial in many ways, 15 and we definitely want to represent the wishes 16 of our constituents, and this summer, while many 17 took vacations, some of us had those things 18 called primaries and general elections. Well, I 19 had a very heavy primary, but I spent many hours 20 along with my colleague, Senator Waldon, meeting 21 with the residents of Rockaway and Broad Channel 22 and this was their greatest concern because for 23 residents of Rockaway they do not have 1 businesses on the peninsula, so they have to pay 2 a toll to go to work right in the same county 3 and in order to get across to Howard Beach, to 4 my friend Senator Maltese's district, where many 5 of them share the same fire companies, they have 6 to pay a toll. 7 This is clearly not right, and I 8 ask all of you to consider the residents of 9 Queens County who have to pay an intracounty 10 toll and please give us your vote on this 11 legislation. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: For the new 16 members of the New York State Senate, I invite 17 you to observe what's going on here this 18 evening. Welcome to Albany, and you will 19 understand how legislation comes before the 20 chamber, not necessarily based upon equal 21 treatment under the law but based upon who had 22 access to the decision making. 23 One of the real tragedies in 1 Albany is when the Governor, who happens to be a 2 Democrat, and the Speaker of the Assembly, who 3 happens to be a Democrat, and the Senate 4 Majority Leader, who happens to be a Republican, 5 come together and they feel that they are 6 speaking for everyone, I respect the offices 7 that they hold. I respect the integrity of the 8 leadership, but I do not respect the exclusion 9 of other voices that are not represented at 10 those negotiations. 11 There are members here on both 12 sides of the aisle whose constituents have been 13 betrayed by this bill. They are Democrats like 14 George Onorato. They are Republicans like Guy 15 Velella and Frank Padavan, whose constituents 16 have not been effectively given equal treatment 17 with those in Staten Island and those in the 18 southern part of Queens. Doesn't a constituent 19 who lives in Bayside or Astoria or Whitestone or 20 Throgs Neck areas of the Bronx, areas of Queens, 21 areas that are represented by Senator Galiber, 22 aren't they equally protected and entitled to 23 protection under the law? 1 Why do we make the mistake on a 2 bill like this that we often make on state aid 3 to education? We do have a formula, but then 4 somebody runs in and says, "Wait a minute, give 5 me a little extra for my district. Forget about 6 everybody else. I'm working for my 7 constituents." And we have add-ons, and we have 8 things that are non-equalizing and after a 9 while, you know what it sounds like? 10 Go to the classic, read Plato's 11 THE REPUBLIC, read the book, the first book of 12 Plato, THE REPUBLIC, where the Cyrenaean 13 Aristippus has to answer the question, "What is 14 justice?" And you know what he says is justice? 15 He says, Justice is the interest of the 16 stronger, and that ought not to be the concept 17 of justice in this chamber whose members I 18 respect, whose tradition I admire, and the 19 cameraderie and the spirit of this chamber 20 should be better than simply protecting some and 21 not the others. 22 What is wrong in having a bill 23 that enables the people going over the Triboro 1 Bridge to George Onorato's district or the Bronx 2 Whitestone Bridge in Guy Velella's district, 3 what's wrong with having legislation that is 4 equally fair to these esteemed colleagues who 5 somehow were forgotten in the negotiations and, 6 if they're forgotten in the negotiations, aren't 7 there other legislators whose constituents have 8 been overlooked and ignored in the way the 9 legislation is drafted? 10 I don't want to rise in behalf of 11 my colleagues, but I can tell you, people in 12 northern Queens not only will be paying $6 a day 13 in round trip fares without any discount, 14 without any exemption from the fare increase and 15 then see the surplus that is accumulated, 16 Senator Levy, not even be fairly distributed 17 between the New York City Transit Authority and 18 the commuter railroads and the suburbs, and 19 that's another issue that wasn't addressed here. 20 And what about the issue of 21 two-fare zones? Did somebody forget that on the 22 way to the forum, on the way to the Capitol? 23 What about the two-fare zones, Senator Marchi? 1 You have two-fare zones. So do we. We have - 2 you have three fares, yes. We have to take a 3 bus to get to the subway because the subway 4 doesn't run on every block in many parts of the 5 residential boroughs, so the double fare is 6 additional punishment. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a 11 little order? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 Sergeant-at-Arms will have the conversations in 14 the back kind of held down, please. Thank you, 15 Senator Gold. Your point is well taken. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: One thing, 17 Senator Marchi, we have that problem, the excess 18 toll that will be paid by every New Yorker, and 19 we're all New Yorkers, who don't live in Staten 20 Island but live in the Bronx, in Brooklyn, in 21 Manhattan or Queens, those extra tolls will then 22 represent a double hit on the very same families 23 who have to pay two fares to get to a bus, to 1 get to a subway, to get to work, and then to 2 return, and there ought to be an understanding 3 that when we discuss transportation issues, we 4 do it for all parties in the region, for all of 5 the members, not excluding any of the members, 6 but including all of the members whose constit 7 uents deserve the same protection under the 8 law. 9 In a few minutes, I hope we will 10 have amendments to this bill. I hope we will 11 have enough statesmanship in this chamber to 12 consider amendments that will treat all New 13 Yorkers equally in protection under the law and 14 I will -- the amendments are here? If we may, 15 Mr. President, I'd like to offer up the 16 following amendments and waive the reading. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Senator, just a minute. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I think 23 we're waiting. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: They're 2 just getting served. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Want to explain 4 the amendment? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Who's 6 offering these amendments? 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: I am. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Stavisky, we'll waive the reading. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you have 12 the last section called and call on Senator 13 Padavan, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section of the bill. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 17 act shall take effect immediately and shall be 18 deemed to be in full force and effect on January 19 30th, 1993. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Padavan, how do you vote? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I vote in the 23 negative. 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Stavisky, the amendment. The roll is closed, 4 incidentally. Go ahead on the amendment. We'll 5 waive its reading before the floor -- before the 6 house. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 8 the amendment provides equal access to an 9 exemption from a fare increase to those in the 10 metropolitan region and they could be from the 11 suburbs or from the City, any part of the City. 12 What this does, Senator Marchi, 13 is exactly what you seek to do, but it extends 14 the concept to the other facilities operated by 15 the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority which 16 reads the same way as you provided in the main 17 bill, for protection against fare -- toll 18 increases. This does the same thing for people 19 who use the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, the Throgs 20 Neck Bridge, the Triboro Bridge, Midtown 21 Manhattan Bridge and the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel 22 and other crossings, and I must say that it is 23 the fair way to go, because these bridges are 1 not new. 2 I live very close to the 3 Whitestone Bridge. I take it every time I come 4 to Albany. That bridge was built in 1939. That 5 bridge, the cost of which was small, has been 6 paid for three times over every year by the 7 tolls that are collected right now by the 8 Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority. 9 So why should we have a toll 10 increase on the Whitestone Bridge, the Bronx 11 Whitestone Bridge to be exact, when the cost of 12 the entire bridge was paid for three-fold in a 13 single year and yet the original bill does not 14 provide an exemption from the toll increases for 15 a bridge like the Whitestone Bridge or others 16 that were built long ago. 17 In the interests of fairness, I 18 ask my colleagues here, consider the amendment. 19 It's good for Staten Island. I will agree to 20 that. It's good for the southern part of 21 Queens. I will agree to that. I ask that it 22 also be good for the rest of us in all five 23 boroughs and in all the surrounding suburbs who 1 make use of these facilities every year. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Levy, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, would you 5 yield to a question? 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Of course. 7 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, could you 8 tell me why had you not included the Queens 9 Midtown Tunnel, which is another TBTA facility, 10 in your amendment? 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think the - 12 the Queens-Midtown Tunnel is included, I believe 13 on page 2, line 45. It is included. So you're in 14 agreement with me. I'll be delighted to have 15 your vote here. Will you join me now since we 16 agree on the reading of this? Now, I want you 17 to agree on the fairness of this amendment. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Levy. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Stavisky, 21 I would -- I would call to your learned 22 attention Section 563 of the Public Authorities 23 Law and, Senator, before I pursue 563, let me 1 just say that there -- there is a way between 2 now and the time that the toll increases will 3 take place, to carry out what has been discussed 4 on this floor tonight and that is that the MTA 5 Board could and should, before February the 1st, 6 rescind every part of the toll and surcharge 7 increase and delay it until April the 1st, so 8 that we can deal -- and I'm sorry, Senator 9 Ohrenstein already left -- Senator Ohrenstein 10 talked about the necessity to move forward with 11 a transportation financing package for the MTA. 12 I am sure he really intended to talk about the 13 unfinished business that has to be done between 14 now and April the 1st. 15 A cornerstone of dealing with 16 this omnibus transportation financing problem is 17 the MTA but, my colleagues on both sides of the 18 aisle, Senator, if you are from upstate, you are 19 just as interested in the upstate mass 20 transportation authority and their operating 21 deficits and how they're going to be addressed 22 during the four-year operating envelope we're 23 going to be putting together for all of the mass 1 transportation authority in this state, and I 2 think everybody in this chamber, whether they 3 represent the MTA region or whether they 4 represent upstate, they are interested in how 5 are we going to deal with the next five-year 6 program, state highways and bridges for all of 7 our state highways and bridges in New York 8 State, as well as for local highways and for 9 local bridges so we have a much -- a much larger 10 problem to deal with than Senator Ohrenstein 11 spoke about. 12 But in the resolution that the 13 MTA Board passed, as it relates to the two 14 bridges in Queens and as it -- as it relates to 15 the Staten Island problem, the MTA Board talked 16 about an exemption from a surcharge and not from 17 a toll as it related to all of the other TBTA 18 facilities, they referred to a toll increase 19 and, Senator, if you take a look at 563 of the 20 Public Authorities Law, Senator, we have by 21 statute promised those people that by TBTA 22 paper, bonds and so on, that we are not going to 23 -- not going to -- to in any way impair the 1 ability of the MTA -- of the TBTA to increase 2 tolls and, if we were to go forward with this 3 amendment, Senator, and I can anticipate 4 somebody may very well go to court and say, by 5 calling a surcharge a surcharge instead of a 6 toll, we're calling an apple a banana. But 7 until they do so, the MTA really has fore 8 closed -- foreclosed this amendment because it 9 would impair the commitments that have been made 10 to the bondholders. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. Chairman, 12 would the chairman of the Senate Transportation 13 Committee yield for a question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 15 the distinguished chairman yield? 16 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 18 he will. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator, 20 aren't we really playing games with the English 21 language and engaging in an exercise in 22 hypocrisy by claiming that one toll increase is 23 a toll increase and the other is a surcharge and 1 we really have two different situations? 2 Why don't we deal with all of 3 these things as tolls, and why are you invent 4 ing new language in this legislation that can 5 truly be the subject of a court challenge? 6 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, no one 7 who drafted this legislation or sponsored it has 8 -- has invented -- has invented the word 9 "surcharge". That was done -- that was done by 10 the MTA. It was passed by the MTA Board and the 11 person who -- the person who set that chain of 12 events into action was the Governor. They 13 followed -- they followed the MTA and the MTA 14 Board followed the direction that was set by the 15 Governor to put into place the bill that Senator 16 Marchi and Senator Mega have authored and then, 17 as I understand it, between the time that he set 18 that course of action in motion and today, he 19 changed his mind as it related to going the 20 route, the route that Senator Marchi, through 21 his legislation, seeks to go, and now the 22 Governor is on board because this is a three-way 23 agreed-upon bill. 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 2 I yielded for a question. May I still have the 3 floor? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 5 have -- you still have the floor. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: O.K. I don't 7 think that by trying to blame this language on 8 the Governor or the MTA, we evade responsi 9 bility. There are people in this chamber who 10 presented this concept, this new high-falutin' 11 language of "surcharge" to the MTA. They did 12 not do it of their own volition initially. They 13 do not give up toll increases because they want 14 to give away money. They love collecting money 15 and there were people in this chamber, I 16 predict, and I've not tried to do a full scale 17 investigation, but I think we can understand 18 there were people in this chamber in the 19 Majority who sought this exemption from the toll 20 increase and prevailed upon the MTA to honor 21 that request. 22 Don't lay on me the 23 responsibility for the chairman of the MTA. You 1 will remember, Senator Levy, that the Governor's 2 nominee for the MTA, I voted against in 3 committee. I spoke against his confirmation on 4 the floor, and I think I was the only vote in 5 opposition. That doesn't mean I was right. It 6 doesn't mean I was wrong, but don't lay it on 7 the MTA. 8 This is a bill that originated in 9 the Majority in this chamber. You got into a 10 deal with the Majority in the other chamber. 11 You patched in a couple of benefits for southern 12 Queens which I can understand, and then you put 13 'em together, you tied a ribbon around it and 14 you offered this as an improvement package. 15 Deal with all of the issues at 16 the same time. I will support improvements for 17 the highways upstate, but understand that our 18 constituents in the downstate metropolitan 19 region, some of whom are your constituents, use 20 the bridges and the tunnels for which there are 21 no exemptions from increases and, when they pay 22 the extra amount coming over that Throgs Neck or 23 Whitestone Bridge from the Island, and other 1 people in other parts of New York City don't pay 2 that increase, that's a responsibility that you 3 will have and others will have in voting for 4 this bill. 5 I think it's a mistake. What you 6 should do, the fair thing to do, is to take this 7 bill, lay it aside, show you're independent, 8 tell the Governor, tell the Majority in the 9 Assembly, we do not want to do it piecemeal. We 10 will do it statewide or not at all, and then 11 talk to us on a bipartisan basis. Don't give us 12 this thing now, all of a sudden we're in a rush. 13 We weren't in a rush in December. All of a 14 sudden we're in a rush. Do the right thing for 15 John Marchi, for your constituents, for our 16 constituents throughout the region, and then I 17 think we'll be doing the people's business. 18 I hope that this amendment 19 prevails. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Solomon, before you speak, I just want to 23 procedurally let you know where we are. There's 1 a list, and on Senator Stavisky's amendment. 2 Then Senator Halperin is going to offer another 3 amendment. Then I have six people that want to 4 speak on the bill. 5 So, Senator Solomon, you have the 6 floor. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: I'll try to be 8 brief, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Whatever you say. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: In this 12 amendment on page 2, we have inserted -- Senator 13 Stavisky has inserted the fact that any students 14 who are duly registered and matriculated in any 15 institution of higher education within the 16 county should receive a discount. 17 I'd like to make note of the fact 18 that we have numerous students that live in 19 Kings County in Brooklyn that commute to Staten 20 Island to go to college and indeed, these 21 students have to pay the toll. In fact, I 22 understand approximately 40 percent of the 23 student body at the College of Staten Island 1 comes from Kings County. So if this amendment 2 passes, these students would, in fact, receive 3 that discount which, in fact, they're entitled 4 to. 5 They have to make that trip every 6 day, sometimes they have to make that trip twice 7 a day if they have some courses that are in the 8 later evening or later afternoon. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Solomon, could we interrupt you for just a 11 minute so that Senator Libous could -- we could 12 open the roll for him. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: I'll be done in 14 30 seconds. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 16 right. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. And I 18 think it's an unfair burden we're placing on 19 those students unless we adopt this amendment, 20 and this is very fair because we all know that 21 those students have faced substantial increases 22 in tuition over the last few years in the CUNY 23 and the SUNY system. 1 Thank you, Mr. President. Thank 2 you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 4 you, Senator Solomon. 5 If the Secretary would read the 6 last section for Senator Libous. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 Senator Libous, how do you vote? 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I vote aye. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Close 14 the roll. 15 SENATOR ONORATO: Was that on the 16 amendment? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, 18 that was on the regular bill. We're still on 19 the amendment. 20 Senator Gold, you have the floor. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 22 President, and I will be brief. 23 Senator Marchi, the way I've 1 learned legislation over the years is that I see 2 situations, other people see situations, we 3 learn from them and then we see how they get 4 applied. 5 One day I was driving in 6 Westchester County on the Hutchinson Parkway, 7 and I saw a sign that said, Closed to 8 Motorcycles, Horseback Riding and Ambulances, 9 and you can certainly see that there's a little 10 difference between an ambulance and the others. 11 I found out that people do that, but that 12 actually the police ignore it, et cetera. 13 To make a long story short, 14 Senator Marchi, I put in a bill, it became a 15 law, and it said that you can't stop an 16 ambulance from using a road in the course of an 17 emergency. That makes sense, but I didn't put 18 in a bill that says you can't stop an ambulance 19 on the Hutchinson River Parkway. That's where I 20 happened to see the one sign. So you learn from 21 that, and you go from there. 22 Senator Stavisky's amendment just 23 makes eminent sense, and one of the things that 1 I personally dislike about this Legislature is 2 that the politics involved, which are terrible, 3 make us all too parochial. Interestingly 4 enough, there was somebody who came to see me 5 who is no longer a legislator but he was a 6 legislator in another state, and he's now got to 7 deal with this Legislature on certain issues, 8 and he was flabbergasted. He said he's been all 9 over the country, never saw anything like New 10 York State, where everything is political. 11 Politics means more than the people we represent 12 and the job we do. And it stinks. 13 Why are we breaking up people? 14 Why would I have to stand up or anybody else 15 have to stand up and say, Well, look, what do 16 you want from Staten Island? You know, who is 17 see makin' 'em live there? You want to live 18 there, the day you got there you all of a sudden 19 found out it was surrounded by water? It was a 20 secret? 21 I mean I don't want to stand up 22 against him. I've stood up to support the 23 people of Staten Island. But it gets 1 ridiculous. The people who are represented by 2 Senator Smith and who were represented by 3 Senator Weinstein, we know the problems of those 4 people because these people speak out. 5 So, Senator Marchi, if you see 6 the problem of some humans who happen to live on 7 Staten Island, why can't you take that 8 experience and use your power and reach out and 9 try to help other humans, all of whom may be in 10 a similar situation? But you don't do that. 11 Now, I know your reputation on 12 Staten Island, Senator Marchi. We've been 13 through enough wars to know that it's a waste of 14 money to run against you, et cetera, et cetera, 15 et cetera. But, Senator, there are other people 16 who want to adore you also. Some of them live 17 in Whitestone, and some of them may live in the 18 Bronx, and you could be their hero and their 19 champion, but the kind of legislation and the 20 way it went in today, only divides people. That 21 doesn't make any sense. 22 I know what's in your heart. 23 Nobody could feel for Puccini the way you do and 1 not want to help people. Giuseppe Verdi never 2 told you to do this. 3 So I'm encouraging everybody to 4 please support this amendment. It just makes 5 sense. It lets us take care of Senator Marchi 6 in the other situation and maybe we'll be 7 getting the MTA and the Triborough Bridge and 8 everybody to start taking a look at an overall 9 picture and puttin' this family on earth 10 together instead of dividing us up and chopping 11 us up according to political power. 12 Now, Saul Weprin happens to be 13 one of my Assemblymen and one of my political 14 leaders and everybody knows I respect him. Now, 15 I respect the fact that, if the Speaker was 16 presented with this particular program for 17 Staten Island, that he would, in fact, try to 18 take care of some of the situations in Queens. 19 But what I'm urging is that that is really such 20 a terrible, terrible way to deal with people and 21 with legislation. It just is terrible. 22 We have a new Senator here, I was 23 talking to a few minutes ago, from an area where 1 Congressman McHugh comes from, and I made the 2 comment, I'll bet you, and you can take the bet 3 right now; it's better than a Super Bowl bet, 4 I'll bet you that the Democrats in Congress 5 treat him in the Minority a lot better in terms 6 of his legislation participation and ideas than 7 he ever treated a Democrat up here, or the way 8 you people do, or the way it works in the other 9 house. 10 Supposed to be a legislative 11 body. You come up here; you have an idea; you 12 throw it out; you consider it; you chew it up. 13 It's good, it's bad. There is an opportunity 14 here tonight to do the right thing by people and 15 I want to help Al Waldon who's fought for his 16 people, and Ada Smith, but let's do it for 17 everybody. 18 Let's start -- this session has 19 started on good footing. Senator Present has a 20 watch which is as good as mine, and we start 21 pretty much on time. It's terrific. Now, once 22 we get started, let's get the machine running in 23 the right way. 1 I would support this amendment. 2 I hope everybody would support it, and we'll be 3 here tomorrow. We can pass it tomorrow, and the 4 Assembly's business if they're here, they're 5 there, let them work that nonsense out. They 6 work two days in a row it's possible it wouldn't 7 kill them. But I would urge this amendment 8 pass. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: O.K. On 10 the amendment, all in favor say aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 13 affirmative. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 15 the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Party 17 vote. Call the roll on a party vote. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 25, nays 20 34. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 amendment fails. 23 Senator Halperin, you also have 1 an amendment. 2 SENATOR GOLD: The party failed 3 the amendment. 4 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President, 5 I offer up amendments and waive their reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Have 7 they been served and everything? 8 SENATOR HALPERIN: I was told 9 they were served. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 11 have them, Bill? Yep, we have them. The 12 amendment is on the floor. 13 SENATOR HALPERIN: Thank you. 14 On the amendment, essentially 15 what this amendment does is to reapportion the 16 existing revenues available to the MTA that have 17 been generated by the tolls between the commuter 18 railroads and the New York City Transit 19 Authority. 20 Now, it is well known that the 21 commuter railroads have a surplus. They don't 22 really need money and what we're doing is 23 imposing tolls on people who may, in fact, be 1 having some very severe financial problems, in 2 order to provide under the existing formula, a 3 hundred million dollars that is not really 4 necessary to hold down the fare of the commuter 5 railroads. 6 So we can sliminate the entire 7 need for a toll increase if we simply adopt this 8 formula, and I'd like to take full credit for 9 this idea but, in fact, it's a bill that Senator 10 Goodman sponsored last year, and I believe has 11 re-introduced this year. 12 So what we're all arguing about 13 today, and all of the concerns that we've heard 14 expressed here today can be simply avoided by 15 the passage of this legislation, of this 16 amendment to this legislation. 17 So I, therefore, offer this, and 18 I urge its passage and then we can all leave and 19 not have to worry about a fare increase and not 20 have to worry about a toll increase and the 21 problem will be resolved. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Levy. 1 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Senator 2 Halperin. As Yogi Berra, that great Yogi Berra, 3 his -- one of his favorite sayings, "It seems 4 like deja vu all over again," because I think 5 you and I have had this discussion repeatedly 6 over the years. 7 But let me -- let me again set 8 the record straight as it relates to something 9 that Senator Ohrenstein said earlier. I know he 10 unintentionally misspoke. He said the MTA Board 11 has voted a fare increase for the Transit 12 Authority. That's not accurate. The MTA Board 13 has voted to hold hearings. They did not vote a 14 fare increase for the Transit Authority. 15 And year after year people 16 primarily on that side of the aisle always 17 portray the commuter rails as having a surplus. 18 It's almost like the MTA Board called part of - 19 part of the increase in revenues for TBTA 20 facilities a surcharge as opposed to a toll 21 increase, but I guess if you say it enough times 22 you get people in the press and perhaps 23 residents of the city to believe that there is 1 is a commuter rail surplus rather than a 2 commuter rail deficit. So there's a commuter 3 rail deficit, Senator Halperin, and not a 4 commuter rail surplus. 5 Now, let me just tell you where I 6 stand, Senator -- Senator Halperin. Number one, 7 I, as many, was opposed to any Transit Authority 8 fare increase in 1993. I told you that in 1992 9 when the Authority was threatening to go beyond 10 the buck and a quarter, and I said we were going 11 to, all working together, we were going to hold 12 it -- we were going to hold the Transit 13 Authority fare. And, Senator, I'm going to do 14 my part as the chair of this committee to help 15 ensure that there not be a Transit Authority 16 fare increase in 1993 nor for any of the other 17 mass transit authorities in this state. 18 But I think for some, Senator, 19 and many people -- some people on your side of 20 the aisle, it's not good enough. It's not good 21 enough that we hold the fare for the Transit 22 Authority, because I think some people over 23 there and others outside of this Legislature, 1 they not only want to hold the fare, but they 2 also want a political victory to go back to 3 their constituents with, to say, We took the 4 commuter rail revenues from taxes raised in 5 commuter rail counties and we shifted them to 6 the Transit Authority. 7 And Senator, I for -- speaking 8 only for myself, I'm opposed to that. I'm going 9 to do everything in my power to continue to see 10 that, Senator, that that doesn't happen. 11 Let me refresh your recollection 12 about fiscal year '92-93 and TBT increases in 13 the past. There was an agreement to allocate 14 money set aside for mass transportation in this 15 state, from the TBT increases. Senator 16 Halperin, notwithstanding the fact that only 17 20.44 percent of the gasoline and other motor 18 fuels sold in this state are sold in the cities, 19 98 percent of the revenues to hold the Transit 20 Authority fare went to the Transit Authority, 21 notwithstanding the fact that only 20.44 percent 22 of the revenues raised from gasoline and other 23 motor fuel sales takes place in the city of New 1 York. 2 Now, let me just conclude, 3 Senator, by saying that the Transit Authority, 4 as it relates to subsidies, receives revenues 5 far in excess of the taxes that are generated in 6 the City already. So, Senator, if you want to 7 talk about -- if you want to talk about changing 8 the TBTA formula since the Transit Authority 9 receives -- receives $82.2 million more in NCOA 10 revenues than are raised in the City, if you 11 want to open up that dialogue, Senator, and you 12 want to change the TBTA split, then I want to 13 change the NCOA split, and the monies that go to 14 the Transit Authority from the MTA subsidy far 15 exceed the TBTA split. 16 So let me just say in conclusion, 17 Senator, what we really ought to be talking 18 about between now and and the 1st is dealing 19 with the Transit Authority problem, dealing with 20 the capital programs for the commuter rails so 21 that we have an adequate plan, which we don't 22 have under the Governor's proposal, and the same 23 thing for the Transit Authority with those 1 capital plans being reduced in amount and in 2 scope, and we want to deal with the upstate mass 3 transportation authorities, their operating side 4 and their capital side, and we want to deal with 5 highways and bridges and let's not try to, when 6 we solve this problem, have a political victory 7 at somebody else's expense by calling their 8 deficit a surplus. 9 I ask that the amendment be 10 defeated. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 12 amendment, all in favor say aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Those opposed nay. 15 (Response of "Nay.") 16 The nays have it; the amendment 17 is defeated. Did you want that on a party vote 18 or something? 19 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes, party 20 vote. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's 22 already been defeated, I guess. Doesn't matter. 23 It's already been defeated. 1 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President, 2 can I speak on the bill now? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Wait 4 now, no. I have a list. You're due up on the 5 bill unless Senator Espada would relinquish the 6 floor. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: I'm sorry. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Espada, you have the floor on the bill. 10 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, on the 11 bill, Mr. President. 12 Certainly I took the occasion 13 last time I rose to ask for a match, not only 14 the impassioned pleas that the distinguished 15 Senator Marchi was making from this side of the 16 aisle and from the whole of the chamber; that 17 is, to make that kind of protection that is 18 available in this bill available to all of New 19 York City, to all of New York State. 20 Those opportunities had been 21 afforded to the complete assemblage here today 22 and we have gone down to defeat twice. There 23 fore, I rise to ask my colleagues to defeat this 1 bill, to stay together because not only my 2 colleagues, sir, but all people of conscience 3 here must react to the fact, including the 4 Republicans and the downstate whose constituency 5 has to travel, and in all probability in all 6 reality pay more after April 1st for that train 7 ride, they would have to explain my Republican 8 colleagues in downstate to those constituents, 9 that we chose here today to protect one segment 10 of this state, to give a special privilege to 11 one segment of this state in this regard, the 12 opportunity to render that protection to all New 13 Yorkers when it was within our power to do so. 14 So I ask my colleagues to stay 15 united and to defeat this bill, sir. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Halperin, Senator Waldon has yielded. 18 SENATOR HALPERIN: Thank you, 19 Senator Waldon. 20 On the bill, certainly I agree 21 with my colleagues on this side of the aisle who 22 are voting against the bill because they feel 23 that it is not a comprehensive solution to the 1 problem, that it favors one part of the City 2 against another, and that perhaps we should be 3 extending some of these toll exemptions or toll 4 reductions to other parts of the City. 5 I also agree that we have failed 6 to address this issue of tolls and fares in a 7 comprehensive manner and that we're doing this 8 now under pressure in a way that we shouldn't be 9 doing it. But so what else is new? That is so 10 often the way that we do things here in Albany, 11 and I have learned that you have to vote for a 12 bill or against a bill. 13 It's clear to me that, the 14 amendments having been defeated, I am left with 15 the decision as to how to vote on this bill as 16 it was originally presented to us, not how I 17 would like to see it, and I've decided that I'm 18 going to vote for this bill. 19 Reasoning is as follows: There 20 are those, whether they live on Staten Island or 21 in the Rockaways, who want to be -- we're not 22 sure about everyone on Staten Island, but I know 23 many people on Staten Island who want to be part 1 of the City, and certainly the people in the 2 Rockaways want to be part of this City, and they 3 want to travel back and forth between their 4 homes and the homes of their relatives. They 5 may want to go shopping in the other borough or 6 in the case of Rockaway, in a different part of 7 the same borough. They want to be an integral 8 part of the City and, when we add this 9 tremendous burden to them so as to interfere 10 with this natural flow in commerce, I think we 11 are doing a disservice to the City. 12 Moreover, there are many 13 individuals whose traversing of either the 14 Varazzano Bridge or the Broad Channel bridges is 15 but the first step of a journey to Manhattan. 16 They are, in effect, after they already pay 17 their toll, in the same position as someone who 18 lives in Brooklyn or Queens and if, in fact, 19 they must pay another toll in order to get into 20 Manhattan, as many drivers do, they are, in 21 fact, being hit twice. 22 Now, over the years, I have 23 supported the elimination of two-fare zones for 1 mass transit users. I did so under the same 2 theory that those who live in the City should be 3 able to travel from one part of the City to the 4 other at the same cost as anyone else, and that 5 these historical double fares that exist because 6 of the ownership of lines that have long ceased 7 to be a reality should all be eliminated. 8 But what we're doing here is 9 having a two-toll zone for those who go on to 10 Manhattan, and I believe that that is an 11 injustice, so having voted already for the two 12 amendments and feeling that I would rather see 13 that, I have concluded I'm going to vote for 14 this bill. 15 But I will add one more point: I 16 really don't think that voting for this bill 17 that the alternative is a fare increase. This 18 bill would deprive the revenue flow to the MTA 19 to the tune of less than $10 million. It is 20 estimated that every $50 million is a nickel on 21 the fare. 22 So what we're talking about here 23 is at best one penny one way or the other on the 1 fair. By voting for this bill, we are not voting 2 for higher fares because the amount of this bill 3 is de minimus. 4 So I will be voting for it. I 5 hope that, as time goes on, we will be able to 6 solve the problem in a more comprehensive manner 7 but, as this is presented to me tonight, I will 8 be supporting it. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Waldon. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 My colleagues, I'm a horse 15 trader, and when I was elected to the Senate, I 16 looked forward to coming here to practice that 17 craft. 18 I might ask a question: What is 19 my perception of what is a horse trader? A horse 20 trader is someone who today gives you what you 21 need so that tomorrow he may be able to receive 22 what he needs. This bill is important to my 23 district. It's important because mothers who 1 take their small children to school in the same 2 zip code have to pay to go from Broad Channel to 3 the Rockaways, going and coming in the morning 4 when they take them and later in the day when 5 they go to pick them up. 6 It's important because people who 7 have to go to the hospitals on the Rockaway 8 peninsula have to pay going and coming if they 9 live in Broad Channel. It's important to me 10 because the businessmen who are in the Rockaways 11 have told me, "Al, if there's one more financial 12 burden put on my trucks which go back and forth 13 across the bridges, I'm going to close my shop 14 and leave the Rockaways." 15 The Rockaways is not the richest 16 area of New York City. In fact, it is 17 economically depressed, and so this bill to some 18 degree is not salvation, but at least it's a 19 promise of salvation. 20 So this horse trader comes to you 21 this evening saying, I need this, I need this 22 not for me but on behalf of my constituents. So 23 give it up and, when you need a return in kind, 1 I will greatly appreciate your coming to me to 2 ask for that, and I thank you in advance for 3 your help on this issue. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You're 8 on the list. Did you care to speak? 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 10 I -- I didn't put myself on the list, but I'm 11 happy to be on it. 12 I - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 14 don't have to be on it, if you'd rather. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'll make 16 it brief, then. 17 In order for the residents of my 18 area to get to the places of business and the 19 places of entertainment, for the most part they 20 have no other choice but to cross bridges in 21 order to get there since most work in the City. 22 While there may not be water around us, in 23 effect it is more of an isolated area in that 1 the center of business entertainment requires, 2 you know, moving over a bridge and, therefore, I 3 feel that it has to be applied to all bridges so 4 that all people can benefit. Otherwise, there is 5 just inequality here. 6 Also I think that, when people 7 decide to live in a certain area, they -- they 8 accept the burdens and the benefits of the area 9 that they're locating in, and I think people 10 moving to Staten Island are aware that there is 11 no alternative to -- but a ferry or a bridge and 12 I think they accept that and, therefore, I will 13 be voting no. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 Senator from Staten Island, Senator Mega. 16 SENATOR MEGA: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I guess I know how Solomon felt 19 when he was trying to make some of those 20 decisions we were speaking about because I 21 represent a portion of Staten Island. I 22 represent a portion of Brooklyn, so I have a 23 double constituency to be concerned about and 1 I've listened to the entire debate and the 2 process is working. That's what I hear from 3 this debate. We have a system that we all work 4 within, and we do the best we can. We all have 5 provincial responsibility. We have 6 responsibility to those constituents who send us 7 here, and then we have statewide responsibility 8 depending on what area we're involved in, in the 9 legislative process. 10 And my friend and your friend, 11 Senator Levy, as chairman of the Transportation 12 Committee, has both of these responsibilities. 13 He's concerned about the people that he 14 represents on Long Island and then, again, and I 15 think that's paramount, he's concerned about 16 transportation problems in the entire state and 17 he's looked at that, this issue, and he has 18 added to the debate and indicated that he 19 supports the bill and believes that it should 20 pass this house, and I rise to ask for your 21 support in representing a portion of the 22 constituency in Staten Island. 23 I can not debate and express my 1 feelings in the same strong manner that Senator 2 Marchi does, and he does so well, to let you 3 know how he feels about his representation of 4 the people in Staten Island over the years, it's 5 sometimes referred to as the lost borough, and 6 there is a process in motion now to look at 7 secession, and that is an issue that's being 8 looked at and discussed now because it is a very 9 special community within the city of New York. 10 And I guess what bothers me about 11 this debate is the divisiveness that sometimes 12 comes up and that Senator Ohrenstein who was the 13 first to take the floor indicated that maybe we 14 were doing something wrong in the way we 15 approached this problem, that maybe the process 16 was not working. But I have to disagree with 17 those who feel that way. The process is 18 working. You have a Governor who cares about 19 this issue and who cares about the people in 20 Staten Island. You have a Speaker who, to his 21 credit, when the issue was discussed, felt that 22 maybe something could be done in another area 23 that has similar problems that Staten Island 1 has, the Rockaways, the only way to get into the 2 City, Staten Island the major way to get into 3 the City. We know there's a ferry and that was 4 brought out during the debate, but the major way 5 to get into the city is over the Varazzano 6 Bridge. 7 Now, just so that the record is 8 clear, although I think it is, I'd just like to 9 mention it again, what this legislation does is 10 it continues the discount that the people in 11 these communities have and Staten Island, the 12 discount would continue at $4 as it is now, and 13 I believe whatever the discounts are in the 14 other communities will also continue. 15 Yes, we would like to do 16 something for the other constituencies that were 17 mentioned. Yes, we would like to make sure that 18 the fare is kept at the dollar and a quarter 19 that it's at now, and we're going to address 20 that also. But we know this process. We know 21 that in the area of transportation is a very 22 complicated process, and I don't profess to know 23 all there is to know as far as the process is 1 concerned, and we rely a lot on those who have 2 the expertise in this process. 3 But as far as these communities 4 go that this bill is directed at, come January 5 31st, the toll will go to $6. All this bill 6 says is that for a year, and it's only for a 7 year -- this issue is going to be revisited 8 again at the end of 1993 -- for a year the 9 discount toll would continue, and we say that 10 these are special communities that are entitled 11 to this consideration, and I would hope and I 12 know that there's some members who have already 13 made up their mind for whatever reason, but I 14 would hope those who could give us a vote on 15 this bill for the reasons that were given during 16 the debate by Senator Marchi and others, and 17 Senator Halperin so eloquently explained how he 18 felt about the process because he was exercising 19 his statewide responsibility, as far as 20 provincial responsibility is concerned. 21 Now, I have a lot of people in 22 Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst, yours truly included, 23 that traverse that bridge. Both of my married 1 children live in that community in Staten 2 Island. My five grandchildren are in Staten 3 Island, and there are a lot of people in 4 Brooklyn, particularly from the Bay Ridge 5 Bensonhurst area, that go over that bridge. But 6 I think, if you said to these people that this 7 is something that the Staten -- this is 8 something that the Staten Island resident was 9 given, and it was given by this Legislature, 10 this is something that we would like to see 11 continue - 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Gold, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator Mega 16 yield to one question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are you 18 yielding, Senator Mega? 19 SENATOR MEGA: With some fear, 20 yes. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, no, Senator I 22 -- you know, I'm part of the Chris Mega fan 23 club, and I know the way you cherish your 1 children and your grandchildren. I just have one 2 question. When they moved to Staten Island, 3 didn't you tell them there was water all around 4 the place? 5 SENATOR MEGA: Yes, I did, and I 6 told them I would pay the tolls as long as they 7 didn't go up. 8 The point I was trying to make, 9 and so nicely interrupted by the Senator, was 10 that Staten Island from a transportation 11 standpoint is a special community, and they're 12 asking for some consideration at this point 13 because of the lateness of the hour as far as 14 the increase is concerned. We will revisit the 15 issue. We will look at the transit problem. We 16 will continue to work on it, but at this time we 17 say to you, Please give that community and the 18 community of the Rockaways the kind of help that 19 is needed in this area, and I don't think it 20 will be that detrimental to the rest of the 21 people in the city or the rest of the people in 22 the state of New York. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 2 right. Senator Mendez. Senator Mendez had the 3 next one on the list. If she wants to yield to 4 you, Senator Galiber, it's all right with me. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Mendez. 6 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, 7 yes, Mr. President. 8 I merely want to congratulate 9 Senator Marchi because consistently he does take 10 care of the business for his constituents, but 11 not only for his constituents because in many 12 instances here we have witnessed how, through 13 legislation, Senator Marchi has come through for 14 other people's constituents, so that the bill 15 that we are considering today, the situation 16 that we're considering today, it's very 17 disturbing to me. It is. 18 Why? First because the way that 19 business is conducted here in Albany is by 20 having the three major players, the Speaker, the 21 Majority Leader and the Governor, sit down and 22 agree and compromise on what have you. Well, 23 that's the way things happen here in Albany. I 1 wish that, in the future, they would include my 2 Minority Leader, and because he represents us, 3 Senators on this side of the aisle who are 4 Democrats, and it would be easier for us to look 5 upon -- upon whatever compromise is arrived at 6 when we feel that we have had some participa 7 tion. 8 So that I don't know what other 9 kinds of agreements we're reaching in those 10 negotiations, but definitely this is a bill that 11 the residents of Staten Island and Brooklyn 12 need. 13 Now, in terms of my position, 14 what about my constituents? Well, from East 15 Harlem and the South Bronx, I will be facing the 16 situation in which many many Puerto Ricans and 17 Hispanics will be making daily trips to 18 LaGuardia or the -- or LaGuardia or Kennedy 19 Airport, and if the tolls on those bridges do go 20 up, then they're going to be in economic 21 hardship. 22 My constituents from the West 23 Side, the Dominicans, the Dominicans in 1 Washington Heights, they oftentimes, the same 2 thing, they make a lot of trips to these 3 airports to pick up their relatives and friends 4 and, as a result, the entire industry where that 5 many of them were delivering, taxicabs will have 6 to pay a higher -- a higher amount of money as 7 they go through the bridge -- as they go through 8 the bridge. 9 So that from an economic point of 10 view, although at this point we are, with this 11 bill at this point, we are trying to ease the 12 lives, the economic lives of residents in Staten 13 Island, the economic lives of residents in 14 Brooklyn, this time the economic life of my 15 constituents both from Washington Heights and 16 East Harlem and the South Bronx is not -- is 17 not being considered, but we're not considering 18 raising the tolls in the Triboro Bridge or the 19 Whitestone Bridge. I'm thinking that it might 20 be perceived as a symbol. 21 How come -- how come our 22 bridges -- how come we don't get the same 23 treatment in our own bridges and, in being 1 parochial, then I would have to go with the 2 feelings based on perceptions by my own 3 constituents, so, therefore, in this instance 4 and I really hate to vote against the bill that 5 has been totally agreed upon by the three major 6 players in Albany. Why? Because it takes so 7 long to get things done and once there's 8 agreement, we all in a sense should support it 9 since it represents a compromise of all parties 10 involved in arriving at those compromises. So 11 it bothers me. 12 But on the other hand, tonight I 13 am going to be very parochial, very, very 14 parochial, I'm going to be, and I'm going to 15 vote against this bill because with the hope 16 that my constituents will eventually receive a 17 better treatment. 18 I think of that, the perception, 19 the image that the -- my constituents will 20 receive is a very negative one. Say why we 21 never get anything. What is this? So I'm being 22 very political, and I know that these are very 23 political situations. I'm happy that I'm being 1 very parochial, because I think I'm raising the 2 interests of my constituents and, in the final 3 analysis, it was them whose votes send me here. 4 So, Mr. President, I -- with 5 regret in my -- in my heart because I love this 6 honorable dean of Senators here in Albany, 7 Senator Marchi, with deep regret in my heart I 8 am not going to support this bill with my vote. 9 I will be voting in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Galiber, did you care to speak? 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. 13 Mr. President, I certainly intend 14 to be extremely brief. This bill touches and 15 concerns two very, very good friends of mine, 16 and that friendship goes past the relationship 17 here in the Senate. 18 Senator Marchi, I have seen you 19 exercised on rare occasions, and no one needs to 20 speak for our leader. He has the ability to 21 speak for himself. 22 But what is in issue here, and I 23 want both of you to understand and I say out of 1 deep love and affection for you both, and I mean 2 it, that this piece of legislation which is 3 ultimately going to be beneficial to a few - 4 I've heard my colleague talk about horse 5 trading. John Marchi, those were the old days 6 when we were in the Constitutional Convention, 7 you talked about covered wagons, and they will 8 never come again, and those days are gone 9 forever then. I dare say that horse trading in 10 this body has gone, like the covered wagons. 11 I've stood on this floor on many 12 occasions and said to good friends and people of 13 stout hearts on the other side of the aisle, 14 Give me a vote, and collectively you have said 15 no, and I, on occasion, have polled you 16 afterwards that, and asked you, Would you have 17 voted similarly for me, and the answer is yes. 18 I always say this and I say it over and over 19 again, I say it for the new members, I don't 20 have problems on the other side of the aisle 21 individually. It's the collectiveness that 22 bothers me and troubles me, and those who ask 23 for favors and say, exchange things, horse 1 trade, if you will, if you need me I'm there, 2 you should recall that reciprocity process. 3 Reciprocity means you scratch my back and I 4 scratch yours. Reciprocity to some means you 5 don't, I don't have a back. You might be 6 scratching some place else, but not my back. 7 But what I'm saying simply to all 8 of you that I believe in my heart of hearts 9 that we could resolve this problem in toto. I 10 don't want to hear, Give me a vote today; I'll 11 take care ever you tomorrow. That's gone. We 12 know that. Doesn't exist any more, and nobody - 13 there is nobody in the sound of my voice in this 14 total Capitol who has any more sincerity and 15 concern and people-orientated than John Marchi. 16 None whatsoever. Unequivocally I say this. 17 Troubles me when I see you this exercised. I 18 mean not accustomed to that sort of thing. We 19 play act from time to time. You didn't because 20 it hits you hard, and I think you misunderstood 21 the leader. 22 We're not saying that we want 23 special treatment or you only want special 1 treatment. We were concerned about the total 2 population in the city of New York and you 3 objected to Mayor Wagner in the Constitutional 4 Convention because his tax amendment put a 5 burden on the city of New York, and you were 6 saying this from your heart, but there you can 7 not confuse the cost and the price here, and 8 Senator Halperin tells us that it's only $10 9 million. 10 Mr. President -- Mr. President, 11 if you'll get some order, I'll sit down in a 12 hurry. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Let's 14 have some order in the house. There's a lot of 15 conversations going on. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: When Senator 17 Halperin says to us $10 million on a formula 18 will be not that -- will not be that great and 19 we're going to pay a price somewhere along the 20 line, and I tell you I can't -- I come from a 21 district in the Bronx and Senator Espada has 22 inherited that district. You know what they're 23 going to do, Senator? We can't get out of 1 certain districts now because the bus schedules 2 have been cut. The buses no longer come there. 3 They're going to cut even further, and then to 4 compound that when we have the non-medallion 5 cabs coming into the community so people can get 6 to work, they fight back. So it's compounded. 7 So it's not just the question of the $10 8 million. It is not just the question of want 9 ing to give you a vote because I certainly will 10 give you a vote any day on almost any subject, 11 any subject at all. 12 But this is a piece of 13 legislation that did not have to come here 14 today. It's a piece of legislation that could 15 have been resolved in toto, and Senator Levy has 16 done a fantastic job. We don't always agree, 17 but that's political, but the substance of what 18 you're talking about, your commitment and your 19 energy that you put forth in transportation will 20 always be -- it will be written down in history 21 as far as this state is concerned, in my best 22 judgment, and I hear John Caemmerer every now 23 and then I hear him over there next to you. He 1 says, "Fight on, Norm; keep it up, you're in the 2 right direction." I recall those good things. 3 So I say to you, Senator, a vote 4 against this piece of legislation, if that be 5 the "no" vote has nothing at all to do with the 6 individual. It has nothing to do with Staten 7 Island. It has to do with the clear 8 understanding that the covered wagons are gone. 9 They'll never return. Horse trading is no 10 longer an order of the day, that we now have to 11 be very conscious that we deal with a problem. 12 If it's ever going to impact on all the people 13 in the city of New York or the state of New 14 York, then we have to deal with it in toto and 15 that's basically what our objection or some of 16 our objection is here. 17 If it was left up to John Marchi 18 and Chris Mega, Senator Mega, on a piece of 19 legislation, you have the power and you have 20 some tough times, I would imagine, in your 21 Conference, it wasn't that way before, tough 22 times getting to succeed because in your heart 23 of hearts you want to get out, to benefit all 1 the people of the state of New York. 2 So when we object, some of us, 3 it's nothing personal, it's not that we've lost 4 any love for you because we certainly still do 5 and will ad infinitum, but the fact of the 6 matter is that it's just a question of not being 7 able to deal as we should deal with these kinds 8 of matters and, you know, Senator Mega, you talk 9 about feeling like Solomon. You recall Solomon 10 had a little tough time also. He got out there 11 and all of a sudden he heard a little mumbling, 12 you know, people gettin' a little hungry, things 13 were gettin' kind of bad, and he started hearin' 14 some mumbling. We know when mumbling becomes 15 grumbling and grumbling becomes protest. I 16 understand at one time they had signs out, Back 17 to Israel, God is dead, and we'll soon be dead 18 also if we don't get back. But things worked 19 out, as it did here before. No loss. 20 So I'm saying, keep in mind that 21 when we deal with a package, we have to deal 22 with the package. Not one of these individual 23 things. 1 I empathize and understand the 2 idea dealing with the constituents, but we have 3 to take all of it into consideration. There's a 4 repercussion. There's a domino effect in passing 5 this piece of legislation. Somebody has to get 6 hurt as a result of this, and because we did not 7 bring it up timely, someone will get hurt as a 8 result, but we could have avoided this because 9 we could have taken in in toto and worked it 10 out. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 SENATOR ONORATO: Slow roll call. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Slow roll call. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 16 act shall take effect immediately and shall be 17 deemed to be in effect on January 30th, 1993. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call - 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Slow roll call. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Slow 21 roll call. I only see four. We need five. O.K. 22 We got it. Slow roll, ring the bell. The 23 Sergeant-at-Arms will round up the members on 1 both sides of the aisle. Nice slow roll call. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 3 excused. 4 Senator Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Cook voting in the 9 affirmative earlier today. 10 Senator Daly. 11 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 DeFrancisco. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 19 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: (Inaudible). 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do 4 you vote, Senator Gold? 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, if I could 6 have my name called. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Gold to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 10 think I made my point earlier in terms of why I 11 think this is a terrible way to do business. 12 On the other hand, I think that 13 the Speaker has certainly made an effort to try 14 to help the people in my county, at least in 15 part of the county. I think Senator Waldon and 16 Senator Smith have spoken very eloquently for 17 the people in my county, and I'm going to give 18 them the support at this time. 19 I vote yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Gold in the affirmative. Continue the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Gonzalez. 1 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Halperin. 6 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 Senator Hoffmann. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Holland. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson 14 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 15 Senator Jones. 16 SENATOR JONES: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 20 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter 3 voting in the negative earlier today. 4 Senator Levy. 5 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 7 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 8 Senator Maltese. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 10 to explain my vote. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Maltese to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 14 many of the people, the residents of Broad 15 Channel and the Rockaways, patronize businesses 16 in Queens County, work in Queens County. I 17 heard my good colleague, Senator Mega, speak 18 about his children in Staten Island. It's 19 ironic that many of the people that spoke so 20 disparagingly about a secession bill last 21 session spoke about dividing the city of New 22 York, now can vote blissfully against a bill 23 that merely seeks to reduce a toll on a bridge 1 dividing that self-same city of New York and 2 dividing a county. 3 I listened to the arguments of my 4 good colleagues, Senator Smith and Senator 5 Waldon, who represent portions of Queens 6 County. I could not believe that we as Senators 7 representing portions of Queens County would 8 seek to penalize other portions of our own 9 county. 10 Mr. President, I look forward to 11 the day when we would not only reduce tolls on 12 all these bridges, but eliminate them entirely. 13 I think voting against reductions in tolls is 14 not the way to do it. Voting for separations of 15 counties is not the way to do it. 16 Mr. President, I vote in the 17 affirmative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Maltese in the affirmative. Continue the roll 20 call. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 1 (Affirmative indication. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 3 Senator Markowitz. 4 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I think 5 finally Senator Maltese's statements about his 6 desire to see all tolls eliminated is one that I 7 concur with and I agree with, and I hope we can 8 work towards that. 9 I just wanted to mention, if I 10 may, that while we're debating this issue in the 11 Varazzano, I think about the Brooklyn Battery 12 Tunnel and the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, and I 13 think about the discrimination of the toll hike 14 at $3 each way, $6 round trip, that will be 15 imposed very shortly, which is an unfair burden 16 on those of us in the boroughs beyond Manhattan. 17 I mean how often do Manhattan motorists have to 18 come into Brooklyn or Queens for either their 19 entertainment or for any other reason? It's a 20 rare day, and I would hope that to really solve 21 the problem, Senator Levy, that I would be much 22 more supportive of perhaps a slight license fee 23 increase in the region to help support our 1 bridges and tunnels and mass transit, and that 2 way the burden is shouldered by all motorists, 3 all those that choose to own a car in our 4 region. That, to me, would be a fairer 5 approach. 6 Having said that and even though, 7 Senator Mega, I have enormous respect for you 8 and certainly Senator Marchi and the fact that 9 my sister and brother-in-law reside in Staten 10 Island, for the sake of fairness, I have to vote 11 no. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Markowitz in the negative. Continue the roll. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Masiello 15 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 16 Senator Mega. 17 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 19 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Ohrenstein voting in the negative earlier 6 today. 7 Senator Onorato. 8 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Oppenheimer. 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan 13 voting in the negative earlier today. 14 Senator Pataki. 15 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Santiago. 2 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 4 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 6 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer. 8 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 12 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 15 to explain my vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Solomon to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: I believe we 19 passed the initial bill with discounts 20 approximately ten years ago, and just briefly 21 I'll say the same thing I had said then. A) is 22 the people that move to Staten Island certainly 23 knew what the methods of transportation were 1 when they moved there. They knew that there were 2 tolls on the bridge, and they'd have to pay 3 those tolls if they were going to come off. 4 B) is they can always take the 5 ferry at a discounted rate for a quarter each 6 way and C) is it really discriminates against 7 the people in the other boroughs, particularly 8 people that go from Brooklyn to Staten Island 9 and have to use -- go to Staten Island Community 10 College, go to the College of Staten Island and, 11 indeed, work on Staten Island. 12 This is an unfair bill that 13 assists people in the one particular area in 14 which they live, not taking into consideration 15 the fact that there might be other people in the 16 other boroughs that, in fact, have to make just 17 as many trips and should also receive the 18 discount, and that's why I'm going to vote no 19 against this bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Solomon in the negative. Continue the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Stachowski. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Stafford. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Stavisky. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: My name having 10 been called, I should like to briefly explain my 11 vote. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Stavisky to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: I agree with 15 Senator Marchi, if you have constituents who are 16 on an island and cannot get off that island 17 because there is a body of water separating them 18 from the mainland -- Senator Marchi spoke of an 19 island of 400,000 people. Senator, I am a 20 representative of an island of 2 million people 21 and in order to leave Queens to join the rest of 22 New York City, you have to go over a bridge or a 23 tunnel; in order to reach the state capital, you 1 have to do the same thing. 2 Because the island that I 3 represent in part and the island that others 4 represent in part within the five boroughs, have 5 not been equally protected in the way that 6 you've achieved for one part of the City, I wish 7 to be recorded in the negative on this bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Continue the roll. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 15 SENATOR VELELLA: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Absentees. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Hoffmann. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Nolan. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41, nays 16. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 18 with unanimous consent, I'd like to be recorded 19 in the negative on Calendar Numbers 3, 11 and 20 18. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3, 11 22 and 18, Senator Paterson will be in the negative 23 without objection. 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there being no further business, I move that we 4 adjourn until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at 7 3:00 p.m. 8 (Whereupon at 7:30 p.m., the 9 Senate adjourned. ) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22