Monday, March 1, 1993

1 2 3 4 ALBANY, NEW YORK 5 March 1, 1993 6 2:55 p.m. 7 8 9 REGULAR SESSION 10 11 12 13 SENATOR CHRISTOPHER J. MEGA, Acting President 14 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The 2 Senate will come to order. 3 Will you please rise for the 4 Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 Today we're honored by the 8 presence of the Reverend Finley Schaef, who will 9 lead us in prayer. Reverend? 10 REVEREND FINLEY SCHAEF: I come 11 to you from the United Methodist Church in the 12 neighborhood of Park Slope in Brooklyn, and my 13 congregation has asked me to lift up four 14 concerns of theirs in prayer. They are people 15 with AIDS, substance abusers and programs to 16 help them, CUNY students and equal rights for 17 gays and lesbians. 18 Trust in the Lord, and do good. 19 May God give strength to the people. Oh, taste 20 and see that the Lord is good. God is our 21 refuge and strength. Let us unite our hearts 22 and minds. 23 Eternal God, the Father and 1 mother of us all, we are Your children who 2 gather this 1st day of March to open the session 3 of the New York State Senate. We look up to You 4 but we do not look down on our brothers and 5 sisters. For all that we have and enjoy we are 6 entirely indebted to You, our Creator, and to 7 our forebears and ancestors who have transmitted 8 to us the accumulated wisdom of the ages and 9 especially to remind us of our responsibility to 10 the poor and depressed. 11 We gather as earthlings, children 12 of the planet. Please endow us with the wisdom 13 of indigenous peoples who understand the river 14 and its fish, the bird and its branch, the 15 people and their laws. At night, we peer into 16 the heavens and try to comprehend our destiny in 17 the context of billions of years. We have grown 18 comfortable thinking in terms of billion dollar 19 budgets but the news is still undigested that we 20 were fashioned over billions of years in the 21 fire balls of the heavens and we have been put 22 here for a purpose. We rejoice that our 23 existence cannot be reduced to the mirthless 1 strike of a match in the dark, that our daily 2 lives are meaningful, that we are chosen and 3 precious in Your sight. Guide us as we sail 4 through troubled waters. Stand by us when we 5 suffer and keep us hopeful and always inclined 6 to share our happiness. 7 Dear God, Moses, the great law 8 giver told this to his people: You must observe 9 these statutes and ordinances diligently for 10 this will show your wisdom and discernment to 11 other people who, when they hear all these 12 statutes, will say, Surely this is a wise and 13 discerning people. So let it be said of the 14 citizens and the legislators of the state of New 15 York, Surely this is a wise and discerning 16 people. 17 May the spirit of God be with You 18 this day and always. Amen. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Reading 20 of the Journal. 21 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 22 Friday, February 26th. The Senate met pursuant 23 to adjournment, Senator Bruno in the Chair upon 1 designation of the Temporary President. The 2 Journal of Thursday, February 25th, was read and 3 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Hearing 5 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 6 read. 7 Presentation of petitions. 8 Messages from the Assembly. 9 The Governor. 10 Reports of standing committee. 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy, 13 from the Committee on Transportation, reports 14 the following bills directly for third reading: 15 Senate Bill Number 68, by Senator 16 Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 17 Law, in relation to requiring certain 18 information on disabled children; 19 Senate Bill Number 75, by Senator 20 Levy, an act to amend the Railroad Law, in 21 relation to minimum standards for grade 22 crossings; 23 Senate Bill Number 79, by Senator 1 Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 2 Law, and the Education Law, in relation to 3 requiring omnibuses to be equipped with a body 4 fluid clean-up kit; 5 Senate Bill Number 190, by 6 Senator -- Senators Levy and others, an act to 7 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 8 to requiring confidentiality of certain 9 information; 10 Senate Bill Number 1189, by 11 Senator Johnson and others, an act to amend the 12 Vehicle and Traffic Law, relation to distinctive 13 plates for members of the lodges of the Grand 14 Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons; 15 Senate Bill Number 1308, by 16 Senator Levy, an act to amend the Vehicle and 17 Traffic Law, in relation to proof of disability; 18 Senate Bill Number 1911, by 19 Senators Sears and others, the Vehicle and 20 Traffic Law, in relation to increasing the 21 penalties for speeding; 22 Also Senate Bill Number 1503, by 23 Senators Padavan and others, an act to amend the 1 Public Authorities Law, prohibiting toll 2 increases on the Triboro, Whitestone and Throgs 3 Neck bridges; also that bill is reported with 4 amendments. 5 All bills reported directly for 6 third reading. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 8 objection, all bills directed for third 9 reading. 10 Senator Holland. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. I'd like 12 you to star some bills, Mr. President. 13 For Senator Stafford, would you 14 please star Calendar 43 on page 4. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 16 starred. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: For Senator 18 Levy, bills 62 and 63. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bills 20 are starred. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: And for myself 22 Calendar Number 91. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bills 1 are starred at the request of the sponsor. 2 Senator Cook. 3 SENATOR COOK: No, I just wanted 4 to say I'm here. Aren't you glad? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Nice to 6 see you here, Senator Cook. 7 Secretary will read three more 8 committee reports. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 10 from the Committee on Commerce, Economic 11 Development and Small Business, reports the 12 following bills directly for third reading: 13 Senate Bill Number 2354, by 14 Senators Bruno and others, Economic Development 15 Law and the State Finance Law, relation to 16 establishing a link deposit program; 17 Senate Bill Number 2388, by 18 Senators Wright and others, State Administrative 19 Procedure Act, in relation to regulatory 20 enforcement practices; 21 Also Senate Bill Number 2389, by 22 Senators Wright and others, State Administrative 23 Procedure Act, in relation to requiring that 1 agencies conduct and include a formal cost 2 benefit analysis. 3 All three bills reported directly 4 for third reading. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 6 objection, the bills are reported directly to 7 third reading. 8 Senator Present, we're ready for 9 the calendar, sir. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 let's take up the non-controversial calendar, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Non-controversial, page 4, the Secretary will 15 read. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 17 Calendar Number 6, by Senator Holland, Senate 18 Bill Number 177-A, an act to amend the Vehicle 19 and Traffic Law, in relation to optional 20 equipment for omnibuses. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 30, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 232-A, 10 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 11 relation to penalties for unauthorized use of 12 parking spaces for handicapped persons. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Explanation. Laid aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 37, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 463 20 A, an act to amend chapter 779 of the Laws of 21 1986, amending the Social Services Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 64, by Senator Volker. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 13 that bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 77, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 43, 16 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 17 Law. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 80, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 1412, 23 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in 1 relation to the power of the Commissioner to 2 review regulations. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 81, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 1414. 15 SENATOR JONES: Explanation. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 82, by Senator Halperin, Senate Bill Number 32, 21 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation 22 to publication of certain notices in the State 23 Register. 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 4 aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 92, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 565, 7 Social Services Law, in relation to access. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 9 Senator Galiber. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 93, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1106, an 14 act to amend the Social Services Law. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 17 aside. 18 That's the first time through, 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Could we take 21 up the controversial calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Controversial, Secretary will read. 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 2 Calendar Number 30, by Senator Tully, Senate 3 Bill Number 232-A, an act to amend the Vehicle 4 and Traffic Law, in relation to penalties. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside 6 temporarily. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 8 aside temporarily. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 64, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 200, 11 an act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal 12 Procedure Law, the Judiciary Law and the County 13 Law, in relation to the imposition of the death 14 penalty. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are you 16 ready, Senator Volker? 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that aside 18 temporarily. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 20 aside temporarily. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 77, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 43, 23 Agriculture and Markets Law. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 9 one, Senator Smith - 10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on, just one 11 second, hold one second. All right. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 13 one, Senator Smith recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 20 Bill 64, Calendar 64, have the last section read 21 so that one member can vote. 22 SENATOR GOLD: No objection. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1 Secretary will read the last section for one 2 member. Calendar 64. Read the title. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 64, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 200, 5 an act to amend the Penal Law. 6 Section 16. This act shall take 7 effect on the 1st day of November. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. Who - 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: Vote yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Trunzo in the affirmative. Close the roll. 14 Laid aside. 15 Continue on. We got another one? 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Are we done? 17 Let's take up Calendar 64. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Secretary will read the title of 64. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 64, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 200, 22 an act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal 23 Procedure Law, the Judiciary Law and the County 1 Law, in relation to the imposition of the death 2 penalty. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 6 Volker. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 8 first of all, I guess especially for those who 9 are new to this chamber, there are a number of 10 people who were just elected last year and who 11 have not - 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Before you 16 really start, Senator Volker, is this the kind 17 of debate that the borough president of the 18 Bronx would want to hear if he was standing 19 around? Could be they didn't want to hear. All 20 right. Thank you very much. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Volker. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: At any rate, for 1 -- this is the 17th time, just to get things, I 2 think, in historical perspective, that this 3 house has attempted to pass legislation to 4 restore the death penalty in this state. 5 In truth, there is a bill that is 6 still on the books that I don't think many 7 people are aware of and were even less aware of, 8 I think, until some history that occurred last 9 year when the Senate did some checking on 10 legislation and determined that they -- that 11 piece of the old death penalty on the books 12 could be used in the context of a Constitutional 13 Amendment which this house may well discuss 14 later on this year depending on how things go as 15 far as this death penalty statute is concerned. 16 Let me say to all my colleagues, 17 as I've said so many times before, I don't think 18 there's any question where I stand on this 19 issue. In historical perspective, my father sat 20 on the Bartlett Commission which virtually 21 abolished the death penalty in this state back 22 in 1964, wrote the minority report to the 23 Bartlett Commission. He made certain 1 predictions about what would happen if the death 2 penalty were abolished. The majority on the 3 Bartlett Commission said, Don't listen to all 4 that sort of stuff. Those are just alarmists. 5 The murder rate is not going to go up. Violent 6 crime in this state is not going to go up if we 7 abolish the death penalty. That's all hogwash. 8 Well, unfortunately for us and 9 unfortunately for the state of New York, all 10 that hogwash came true. If this were a differ 11 ent kind of issue that weren't so emotionally 12 charged and where the media very subtly was not 13 so much opposed to the death penalty, I think 14 that, very honestly, it would be pretty clear 15 that the abolition of the death penalty was a 16 huge mistake. 17 In 1965, in the year 1965 the 18 last year that the death penalty was in place 19 -- and, by the way, the last person executed in 20 this state was in 1963, July of 1963 -- there 21 were 837 murders. By 1971 -- and this as you 22 can see was six years after the death penalty 23 was abolished -- the murder rate had risen to 1 1832, and by 1990 had risen to 2600. Never 2 before in this state's history had we ever seen 3 anything to compare with the murder rate that 4 occurred after the death penalty was abolished. 5 Some people have said, well, 6 that's because the population went up. Wrong! 7 The population went down. That's because of all 8 the bad times we had. Actually, we had some of 9 the best times during that period that this 10 state has ever seen, and the murder rate 11 continued to rise. In fact, the interesting 12 part of this is that the murder rate per hundred 13 thousand per person tripled during that time. 14 The murder rate in New York City almost went up 15 four times, three and a half times, and in all 16 of New York has risen about three times. 17 Just to put it in perspective, it 18 took six years from 1960 to 1965 for 2,000 19 people to be killed. It took nine years from 20 1966 to 1974 for 13,900 people to be killed. 21 There's no question that there's 22 been a huge escalation in murders in this state, 23 maybe worse is what has occurred as far as the 1 attitude of people. As I have said many times, 2 and I'm a former law enforcement officer in the 3 '60s and early '70s, and we thought then that 4 the attitude of people was bad. We thought then 5 that we were dealing with some pretty hard case 6 people. We thought then that the attitude of 7 live and let live or die and let die, which was 8 a better way of putting it, was something that 9 was becoming abominable. 10 Little did we ever recognize or 11 realize what was going to occur as the '70s and 12 '80s have come on and now into the '90s when, 13 unfortunately dismemberment killings, terrorist 14 killings, mass murders have become so much a 15 part of our society as to be almost unbeliev 16 able. 17 People like myself and a lot of 18 others like myself, will say to you, 19 unwittingly, a lot of people are responsible for 20 this. Some of it certainly is the times, the 21 destruction of the family in society, violence 22 on television and things of that nature, but 23 make no mistake about it, when you say to a 1 convicted murderer, when you say to a person 2 that the life that he took is cheap, when you 3 say to that person that no longer do you need a 4 death penalty because somehow you might make a 5 mistake and that life is not as important, like 6 it or not, we have made a declaration about our 7 values. It's a declaration about values that's 8 extremely frightening. 9 And let me just say one thing 10 before I make some sort of statement on what's 11 just happened here in the last few days, and I 12 would like to take the opportunity because I 13 think it's important with all the doom and gloom 14 that we talk about, and certainly what happened 15 on Friday in New York City, probably, is 16 something that to law enforcement people and to 17 everybody in society is something that is about 18 as frightening and most dangerous a thing as 19 could happen. 20 But I want to tell you something 21 about what I saw and what I talked to people 22 about because I did talk to people who were in 23 the building, a number of people, and I saw 1 pictures of what was happening, and I think 2 again, and I saw one newspaper man, I'm sorry, 3 one television reporter who said something that 4 should have been said by a whole bunch of those 5 people, and that is that despite the destruction 6 and the mayhem and the miracle, by the way, that 7 only five people got killed, which is a complete 8 miracle, a major reason that more people didn't 9 get killed is that there still are people in 10 this society who care, and because an awful lot 11 of people, law enforcement people, firemen, 12 first aid emergency people and ordinary citizens 13 were willing to risk their lives to make sure 14 that a heck of a lot of people who probably 15 wouldn't have gotten out of that building alive 16 did get out of that building alive and, if 17 there's anything about what happened in New York 18 City that I think we should say is that with all 19 our criticism sometimes of society and in New 20 York City, the criticism of the New York City 21 residents, pictured as the uncaring person, and 22 so forth, I don't think that too many people who 23 saw some of the things that they saw should 1 neglect the fact that there were a heck of a lot 2 of people still who care, and that's the reason 3 really that that disaster wasn't a heck of a lot 4 worse than it was, and I think that should be 5 said because I think it's important to 6 understand it. 7 But, you know, my good friend, 8 Governor Cuomo, said some things that I just 9 can't, I think, ignore, because -- and I felt 10 very sorry for Mario, and I mean this very 11 sincerely, and this is a quote from, I think, 12 one of the New York City papers, and it says 13 that "Governor Cuomo, his voice quaking with 14 anger, called for prompt retaliation by the 15 federal government when those responsible are 16 identified. 'We need to find out who did this 17 and we need to get the people who did it and we 18 need to punish them and whomever they represent 19 as severely as this tragedy deserves.'" 20 I agree with that. I think 21 that's absolutely true and you realize, by the 22 way, that as far as the federal government, 23 there is a death penalty on the federal level. 1 But I would only say to the Governor, I agree 2 with him, but on the other hand, Governor, we 3 should deal with them very severely, but how do 4 you deal with these people by saying that, 5 although you were willing to kill thousands and 6 thousands of people -- because, remember, had 7 that bomb gone off at 4:30 or 5:00 o'clock, it 8 certainly would have killed thousands and 9 thousands of people -- but we, we who represent 10 the state of New York and who represent millions 11 of people are not willing to say to those 12 people, to those individuals who are willing to 13 kill thousands of people, we are not willing to 14 give you the same kind of consideration that 15 they would give to those kinds of people. 16 Do we need a death penalty in 17 this state for terrorists? Of course, we do. 18 What else is there to give to those kinds of 19 people? You going to put them in jail? First 20 place, you know, you got to realize that most 21 terrorists believe that no jail will hold them 22 and in Europe what they found out is more than 23 likely that's true. It is silly to talk about 1 that. 2 Or what do we do, for instance, 3 with a mass murderer who runs around this 4 country killing people? So we say we're probably 5 going to put him in jail and hope that he never 6 gets out and hope that nothing else happens and 7 make him an example for the next mass murder. 8 I think that we in this society 9 had better understand something. It's all very 10 well to talk about how we want to be a civilized 11 society and watch our fellow people get killed 12 as days go on and watch these kinds of things 13 happen. The truth is, people who do these kinds 14 of acts should get exactly what they hand out. 15 The truth is that we should send the message to 16 people that life is worth something and that, if 17 we truly believe that we want to preserve human 18 life, then we better be prepared to take the 19 kind of tough stand that many places and many 20 people have not been willing to take, and that 21 is to say if you take a human life, you better 22 be prepared to give up your own, and that's why 23 we need to restore the death penalty. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Smith. She's not here? Nobody else? 3 I'm going to call for the last 4 section unless there's -- oh, there's a 5 speaker. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think the 10 fact that no one else rises up to debate the 11 death penalty is that we've gone through it so 12 many times, I think we have all heard the 13 arguments and, frankly, I don't think there's 14 any belief any more in this chamber or anywhere 15 else that the death penalty is a meaningful way 16 to respond to violence in our society and to 17 respond to the terrible crime of homicide. 18 I thought it was so ironic that 19 Senator Volker ends up, and in a very sincere 20 way and with -- with real depth of meaning says 21 life is worth something. Of course, it is worth 22 something. But isn't it ironic, Senator Volker, 23 that that life that you say is worth something 1 you refer to it in the context of the bill that 2 provides for the death penalty. 3 Yes, life is worth something, 4 Senator, and government must set the example and 5 government must not be brought down and reduced 6 to the level of the violence that we see in our 7 streets. 8 One of my real problems with this 9 bill and this debate year after year, it has so 10 ossified the outlook and the approach of the 11 Legislature on dealing with the issue of crime. 12 We have failed terribly -- terribly. Just take 13 a look at the high level of crime in the state, 14 the violence that exists, and your only answer 15 year after year, you have come up with the death 16 penalty. 17 You refuse to bring to a vote the 18 punishment for first degree murder of life 19 imprisonment without the possibility of parole. 20 You refuse to address means by which we could 21 reduce the level of violence and at the same 22 time reduce the crushing burden on the taxpayers 23 of this state in having to incarcerate what is 1 now approaching 60,000 people just in the jails 2 in the state of New York. And all of that 3 without making our streets any safer. On the 4 contrary, they're less safe. 5 Senator Volker, it's interesting 6 that all the times you get up you never address 7 the issue that the death penalty will inevitably 8 end up with innocent people being executed. 9 There's no way that can be avoided, and not a 10 month passes that we do not read of somebody who 11 was sent to jail unjustly. 12 Now, let me say I think by and 13 large we have as good a system as the human mind 14 can fashion, but I think all of us understand 15 and appreciate the likelihood of error being 16 committed. But once somebody is dead, that 17 error can never been contradicted. 18 Senator, you never address the 19 statistics which show that the death penalty, 20 where it is applied, is invariably applied in a 21 racially biased way. It's applied against those 22 people who are considered less favored by 23 society, whether because of the color of their 1 skin, because of the language they speak, 2 because of the religion they practice or because 3 of their economic status. 4 Senator, you never address all 5 the statistics which show the countries of 6 western Europe which have such a much lower 7 homicide rate and which do not apply the death 8 penalty nor, for that matter, states that have 9 applied the death penalty since they were 10 permitted to by the Supreme Court and have seen 11 their murder rate increase at a much greater 12 pace than the state of New York. 13 Senator, you never address the 14 incredibly high cost of capital crime trials. I 15 notice the New York State Bar Association said, 16 throw out all the other arguments against it and 17 just look at the burden that would be put on us 18 if we had to, under this particular bill with 19 its bifurcated trials and punishment section or 20 provision, try capital crime cases. 21 Senator, you never address the 22 problem of guns on the street. You never 23 address the problem that you have one of the 1 most dangerous organizations in the United 2 States that has done more harm to the fabric of 3 our society than the National Rifle Association 4 which is out there continuously fighting to put 5 guns into people's hands in an irresponsible 6 fashion. 7 Do you really think that the 8 death penalty, if it were ever enacted, would 9 have any meaning on these foolish young people, 10 the disturbed young people that we have in the 11 cities of our streets, and we see them in 12 Chicago. We see them in L.A. We see them in 13 New York. I imagine they exist in Buffalo, age 14 14, 15, even younger, with guns, that go out and 15 shoot and resolve disputes that when you and I 16 were in school maybe would be solved by a name 17 or by somebody pushing each other, by pulling 18 out a gun and shooting. 19 Do you think the death penalty 20 will deter that? Of course not. But I'll tell 21 you what would deter it is a good tough national 22 gun control law, and I'd like to see you support 23 that, and then, frankly, I'd find a lot more 1 credibility in your getting up and deploring the 2 high rate of homicide in this state. 3 Senator, we can go through this. 4 I think you said it is the 17th time you've done 5 it and, if you and I are fortunate or unfortun 6 ate enough to be here next year, I guess you'll 7 do it the 18th time, and it will be the same 8 anecdotal presentation and deploring a condition 9 which, granted, is terrible. 10 But I'd like to ask you when you 11 as chairman of Codes Committee are going to 12 address some of the real issues, some of the 13 real factors that cause the high rate of crime 14 that we have in this state, and when are you 15 going to be willing to let out life imprison 16 ment without parole, something that we know 17 would pass both houses, would be signed into 18 law? 19 Senator, it's almost as if you're 20 so fixated and obsessed with the death penalty 21 that it's blinded you from doing anything else 22 in dealing meaningfully with what I think the 23 people of this state want us to deal with, and 1 that is to make this a safer society. 2 This bill doesn't do it. In 3 fact, this bill is an obstacle to our doing 4 this. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Dollinger. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 8 President, I rise today to speak against, for 9 the first time, the imposition of the death 10 penalty in New York State. 11 Now, this is the first time I've 12 heard Senator Volker's description and -- of his 13 reasons behind, underlying the death penalty 14 and, Senator, one thing that I think you did 15 convey, and I think it's something that we all 16 share in this chamber, is the sense of personal 17 rage at violent crime, whether it's crime that 18 occurs in New York City under the World Trade 19 Center, the violent crimes that occur in our 20 neighborhoods through neighbors killing one 21 another, or the terrible crimes that occur 22 through serial murders even in my own 23 community. 1 I think the fundamental question 2 -- and Senator Leichter also echoed that rage, 3 that sense that we as a society have to do 4 something to stop the epidemic of violent 5 crime. But I think the reason why I speak 6 against the death penalty today is, despite that 7 rage, the one thing we can't do, in my judgment, 8 is embark on a course that will not bring an end 9 to the rage. 10 The death penalty, for all of its 11 characteristics -- and Senator Volker properly 12 points out that there are federal death penal 13 ties, death penalties for drug offenses, extens 14 ive drug offenses under a federal law for capi 15 tal offenses. There are extensive death penal 16 ties and broad death penalties in other states. 17 But I think the one fact of 18 empirical science that remains absolutely 19 unchallengeable in the death penalty debate is 20 that it hasn't worked. It hasn't stopped 21 capital crimes. The states that have the death 22 penalty still have the highest murder rates. 23 Obviously those who are inclined to commit 1 capital offenses are not stopping to read the 2 codes and the laws in their states to find out 3 whether there's a death penalty before they 4 commit a capital crime. And I think to all of 5 my colleagues, the fact that it doesn't work is 6 reason enough not to invoke it. 7 But there's one other critical 8 factor that I think we have to look at and it 9 ties back with the point that Senator Volker 10 made about our rage and the personal horror that 11 we feel about violent crime. How do we as a 12 society respond? I think Senator Leichter points 13 out that there are other alternatives to deal 14 with the problem -- life imprisonment without 15 parole. 16 But even more so than that, what 17 message do we send our society when we simply 18 use violence against violence? I thought that 19 that was one of the things for which 20 civilization was designed not to adhere to. 21 What do we tell our children? I 22 have three young children, and what happens when 23 they beat up their brother and sister? I'm told 1 that the thinking and the message I have to give 2 them is that that's not acceptable conduct and, 3 therefore, I spare the rod. I don't think that, 4 in this state, by not having a death penalty we 5 are sending a message that life is cheap. We 6 are, instead, sending a message that we as a 7 society entering the 21st Century believe that 8 the problem of violent crime finds its origin in 9 poverty and in despair, and that sometimes in 10 the horrors of personal existence. 11 I would only join Senator 12 Leichter, it's not just life imprisonment 13 without parole. It's attacking the real 14 problems that underlie the societal propensity 15 to violence. If we can eliminate despair and 16 eliminate poverty and give everyone real 17 opportunity, if we commit ourselves to those far 18 more difficult tasks, we will have a much better 19 chance to decrease violent crime in our society 20 and in our state. 21 I, for one, when this issue came 22 up in my campaign, concluded that my job was not 23 to take New York State back to the dark ages, 1 not to take us back to an age when the death 2 penalty was used to deter people's thinking, 3 when you could be burned at the stake for having 4 an idea that was inconsistent with that of the 5 majority. It didn't stop the growth of ideas. 6 It didn't stop the development of society, just 7 as the imposition of the death penalty in this 8 case will not deter violent crime. 9 I would ask all of my colleagues 10 to simply look at that part of political 11 science. If it doesn't work, don't bother to 12 use it. Instead walk out of this chamber today 13 absolutely convinced that we have a far more 14 formidable task to eliminate violent crime. I 15 know that we can do it. I know that, if we have 16 the will, as much will as some members of this 17 chamber have had to impose the death penalty, if 18 we have the same will to eradicate violent crime 19 and the despair and hopelessness that breeds it, 20 we can achieve that. 21 Don't use the death penalty as 22 the easy answer. Let's commit ourselves to the 23 far more difficult task, but one that will be 1 rewarding for not only this generation but for 2 those in the future as well. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Mr. 7 President, this is a bill that I have heard the 8 expression, certainly if not on the floor I hear 9 it in the side chambers, it's an "old hat". 10 It's an annual, and many of the members under 11 standably take the position that, you know, why 12 don't we go and let's just do it, get it over 13 with, do the vote and get on to more or other 14 tasks. 15 And while we may walk in with an 16 inclination not to want to speak on the issue, 17 the answer is you really can't. It may be old 18 hat. It may be something that Senator Volker 19 brings up every year, but if, God forbid, one 20 year it were to become a law, there will be many 21 people who would say, my God, if it became a 22 law, I guess everybody figured nobody cared any 23 more, and let's get rid of it; so it can't be 1 handled that way. 2 It is important that people speak 3 their minds on this issue and, if it's 4 repetitious to some of us who have been here 5 more than a day and a half, well, that's the way 6 it works, and it's just got to be dealt with 7 along that line. 8 It doesn't mean, however, that we 9 can't be humane, and I will try to be humane and 10 I won't repeat the arguments made by Senator 11 Leichter and Senator Dollinger. I adopt them 12 all. I do believe the use of the death penalty 13 is racially -- is racist in the way it's done. 14 It is not a deterrent; it is inhumane. 15 The figures do bear out the 16 argument of Senator Dollinger. I think Texas, 17 for example, in the last statistics I have has 18 the most people executed, and Florida is next 19 and those states have been totally unsuccessful 20 in terms of what happens with regard to murder. 21 I thought we might have taken 22 care of some of the naive arguments about how 23 you handle crime when we just examine the 1 Rockefeller drug laws. And my God, we had a 2 governor, and I tell you, he was a -- he was an 3 interesting rascal, that he didn't want to deal 4 with the problem that we needed more prisons 5 because, after all, if Rockefeller ever admitted 6 he needed more prisons he'd have to admit that 7 he couldn't solve every crime and the reasons 8 for every crime that ever happened in the state. 9 So the answer was we were going to -- we were 10 going to set forth penalties and nobody was 11 going to deal with drugs in the state of New 12 York, and we all know how successful that was. 13 Right? Wrong! What a failure! 14 The answer is yes, we have the 15 capacity to put people in jail for long periods 16 of time, and the drug problems today are just as 17 terrible or worse than they've ever been. 18 We had another answer. We were 19 going to put people in jail for a minimum of a 20 year if anybody went near a gun and, if you take 21 a look at the statistics, you know what happened 22 to that. All these simplistic answers go 23 nowhere. 1 But, Senator Volker, you got me 2 thinking. You and I have another annual. We 3 have another annual bill. There was one case up 4 in your neighborhood, Senator Volker, where 5 somebody didn't swear in somebody properly and 6 some terrible criminal got off the hook, and you 7 been trying to pass a law to take care of that 8 situation for years, and I look at you and I 9 say, Senator Volker, one assistant D.A. made a 10 mistake. Why do we have to change the whole 11 legal system? And your attitude, as I 12 understand it, is that, well, you know, you want 13 to avoid that one mistake or any other mistake. 14 Well, Senator Volker, I want to 15 avoid some mistakes also. I want you to use 16 your same logic today. I've showed you this 17 before: Wrong man jailed for 28 months, D.A. 18 accuser ex-wife admits killing. I showed that a 19 lot of times because that was 1984. But, 20 Senator, if you're bored with 1984, I can show 21 you 1992. This is just since the last time. 22 What are we, on the 17th? This is since the 23 16th debate. Wrong man got the death needle. 1 The attorney who prosecuted the first death by 2 injection execution, claimed yesterday Texas had 3 got the wrong man. That's 1992. 4 Senator, I got a case for you. 5 Why don't we legislate against this one wrong by 6 not having the death penalty, so we don't make 7 this kind of mistake again? 8 You had one case, Senator; I have 9 more than one. June 7th, 1992, How cop killer 10 nabbed the wrong man. Senator, you're a former 11 policeman. I don't think there's anything as - 12 more outrageous and maybe some things as 13 outrageous but certainly nothing more outrageous 14 than cop killers and people who assault 15 policemen, and we know what happens to society 16 in those cases. Society goes crazy because 17 nobody ought to be able to abuse a police 18 officer, no less kill a police officer in our 19 society. One of the most honorable jobs there 20 is, and they deserve our sympathy, our 21 compassion and certainly our legislative 22 support. 23 But what happens in the 1 investigation? Society has gone crazy. The 2 media which starts out crazy gets double crazy, 3 and there's this big push to get somebody and, 4 believe it or not, in a lot of those cases where 5 we really want to do our best, we wind up doing 6 our worst, because there's such a crunch and a 7 push. 8 Here's another one, May 20th, 9 1992. An innocent man executed. Another 10 nightmare. Here's one, a Brooklyn man $1.9 11 million from the Court of Claims, convicted of 12 murder he didn't commit. I'm sure the state of 13 New York could have done better things with that 14 $1.9 million than give it to somebody who we 15 wrongly convicted for murder. 16 Here's one in Newark, prosecutor 17 faulted as judge overturns a murder conviction. 18 So, Senator, I know and you know 19 that, if you really want to analyze logical 20 debate, you'll find that conservatives and 21 liberals often use the same expressions, they 22 just use them in different cases. Logic is the 23 same way, Senator. Your logic for introducing 1 some of your bills is that something went wrong, 2 one case. I'm telling you I got more than one 3 case. 4 But I want to close in the same 5 vein, but I want you to all think. Is there 6 anybody here that never saw a movie or heard a 7 story or read a report, there's a little child 8 who falls into a hole and not only is the media 9 out there but the drills are out there and the 10 fire departments and the ambulances and there is 11 no amount of money, no amount of money that 12 society will not spend while the media is 13 covering that accident in order to save the life 14 of that one child, and as I say so many times, 15 if we asked for the same amount of money so that 16 these children could get pre-school education or 17 maybe there'd be some safety barriers around 18 these holes, people wouldn't pay any attention. 19 Senator, in this situation that 20 we're talking about today, there are more than 21 just the one life, the one child. We have a 22 society which has a different criminal 23 philosophy than other countries. There are 1 countries where we arrest people and, if they 2 can't prove their innocence, you kill 'em. But 3 we've made a conscious decision in this country 4 and our penal system has built into it the fact 5 that we want to protect the innocent. 6 Are we now going to take the most 7 serious situation of all and then enact into law 8 the one alternative which can't protect the 9 innocent because you can not give that life 10 back? The individual that got the 1.9 million 11 may not have been alive to get the 1.9 million 12 and, believe me, I'm sure his estate would 13 rather have had him alive than the money. 14 It is just the wrong answer, and 15 it pains me that this issue is so politicized - 16 not Republican/Democrat, but so politicized 17 within our own districts and communities that 18 people are afraid to just look at the issue, 19 deal with it once and for all, and see to it 20 that criminals don't get back on the street but 21 that society maintains its humane quality. 22 It is my hope, Senator Volker, 23 for your very good health and that next year I 1 can hear this debate once again on the theory 2 that it will not become a law this year. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Nozzolio. 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Mr. President, on the bill. 8 I rise to support this measure. 9 I supported it for ten years as a member of the 10 New York State Assembly. It's the first time I 11 rise here to lend my support and comment to this 12 procedure. I specifically, though, would like 13 to reference those of my colleagues who 14 discussed the issue of life without parole as an 15 alternative to the measure we are debating 16 today. 17 Life without parole, my 18 colleagues, is a form of death penalty. It's a 19 form of death penalty to the tens of thousands 20 of men and women who work in our correctional 21 facilities across the state, those correction 22 officers and other prison personnel who are 23 entrusted to work behind the walls to keep us 1 safe, to run the prison system in this state. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 3 Mr. President. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: They will be 5 sentenced to death. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Leichter, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would the 9 Senator yield to a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 11 you yield to Senator Leichter, Senator 12 Nozzolio? 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, are 16 you aware that now the statistics nationwide of 17 people who serve long sentences, 25 years or 18 longer, in some instances, serve life imprison 19 ment without parole, do you know that they 20 commit within the prison less crimes? And I 21 believe that there may only be one case that's 22 known of a murder having been committed by 23 somebody under that sort of a sentence. Are you 1 aware of those? 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, was 3 Lemuel Smith one of those that you referenced? 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's exactly 5 the one I'm referencing. That's one, and it is 6 far less than people who serve much lower 7 sentences or lesser sentences in prison. They 8 happen to be, and anybody who's in the 9 correction system will tell you, by and large 10 happen to be the most peaceable of inmates. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 Lemuel Smith is all but the most 14 peaceable of inmates, and Donna Payton, the 15 correction officer that Lemuel Smith brutally 16 murdered, and her family would certainly 17 disagree that your statistics should override 18 the protections that this body and our state 19 government should give to those who work in very 20 stressful conditions. 21 Senator, as many of your 22 constituents, particularly those from New York 23 City, many of your constituents reside in my 1 Senatorial District. I have four prisons in my 2 Senatorial District. Auburn Correctional 3 Facility, the largest or one of the largest 4 maximum security facilities in the state has 5 many of your citizens, your constituents rather, 6 residing in that facility. Many in that 7 facility have committed murder first degree and 8 many would have been put to death as a result of 9 this bill. 10 But I believe to use life without 11 parole as the ruse, as the Trojan horse, if you 12 will, to show an alternative to the death 13 penalty is wrong, and it does not -- it ignores 14 those prison personnel who we must do all we can 15 to protect. 16 Those incidents so eloquently 17 mentioned by Senator Gold, those incidents where 18 an individual may have been found innocent or 19 not guilty after some review, I wonder if, in 20 those states those incidents were mentioned, any 21 of those states have a death penalty similar to 22 the bill sponsored by Senator Volker here today 23 where there is a two-jury system, a two-tier 1 system, one to decide guilt and the other to 2 decide penalty. 3 I think that is a relevant factor 4 in analyzing the merits of Senator Gold's 5 comments. In effect, this measure has done all 6 possible to screen as much as we possibly can 7 set in law a screening device to ensure as best 8 as we possibly can those who are not guilty, 9 those who are innocent are not put to death. 10 The New York State seal, which is 11 placed behind the President's rostrum, is one 12 that I am very honored to be in a body that 13 respects that seal as a symbol of what we are as 14 a state, and the lady on the right of that state 15 seal is Lady Justice, and in her hands is the 16 scale of justice. That scale, my colleagues, 17 unfortunately, is tilted, I believe, too far in 18 excess of those who are accused and not balanced 19 enough to respect those who have been victimized 20 by crime. 21 But this bill does not end 22 crime. It does not pretend to end crime. It 23 does not pretend, and Senator Volker does not 1 pretend that this is the sum and substance of 2 the efforts we must take to end crime in New 3 York. But right now, the accused has a right to 4 be free of illegal searches and seizures, a 5 Fifth Amendment right of protection against 6 self-incrimination, a right to counsel, a right 7 to trial by jury. The accused has those rights 8 and that is the way it should be. However, the 9 victim's rights end in this heinous crime upon 10 his or her death. 11 Those scales need to be placed in 12 better balance, my colleagues, and that's why I 13 support this bill and that's why I will be cast 14 ing my vote in favor of the death penalty, in 15 favor of the process Senator Volker is 16 proposing. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 19 you. 20 Senator Espada. 21 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I rise -- you should know I am 1 not a lawyer; I can't speak or make any effort 2 to delve into the constitutional aspects of this 3 argument; have never, never been around here in 4 the last 20 years that this matter has been 5 debated. But I think it important to note that 6 I grew up in the South Bronx. I was raised up 7 in the South Bronx, areas of the state where 8 this kind of violence that is spoken of, this 9 kind of problem lives day to day. 10 You should know that when I talk 11 to the young people, when I talk to those that 12 live in the South Bronx, to those that, in a 13 disproportionate way, would be impacted by this 14 measure, they tell me that they oftentimes seek 15 to live out their life and prove their manhood 16 not through going to school, not through getting 17 a job, but through the use of a 9 millimeter or 18 an Uzi. 19 Take such a young man and 20 confront him with this argument or a young 21 woman, and they will tell you that they have no 22 fear of what this chamber or the Assembly would 23 do with regard to this matter because they're 1 already living a state-imposed death penalty. 2 You see, if you're illiterate, if you have no 3 hope, if you have no job, if you have no one 4 that will listen to your pain and your anguish, 5 you might as well be dead. And so, when we talk 6 about values, when we talk about this argument 7 being as powerful as the allocation of resources 8 on an annual basis, billions of dollars that are 9 spent by this state, and we don't consider that 10 in between passing such a budget and declaring 11 this particular issue to be equally as important 12 as the allocation of resources, you miss the 13 whole thing. You simply don't get what the 14 argument should be about, and until we galvanize 15 as a legislature to provide equal opportunity, 16 justice, economic parity to these areas that I 17 represent, then this can only be an argument 18 about what is politically correct in certain 19 circles. 20 It cannot be confused with the 21 legitimate argument that would bring relief 22 against violence in our inner cities. 23 Thank you very much. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Let's 2 see. Senator Oppenheimer, and Senator Saland is 3 next. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: O.K. It's 5 me. 6 Senator Nozzolio was talking 7 about not using life without parole as an 8 alternative, but I would be very interested in 9 hearing at a later date what the alternatives 10 are that he thinks might be available as the 11 death penalty apparently is not going to be 12 available to us, because I do not believe that 13 the other house or the Governor would ever sign 14 it. Therefore, I am very interested in 15 listening to other alternatives. 16 I would also like to say, 17 commenting on what he was saying before, 18 Senator Nozzolio, that statistics don't lie, 19 that if you ask any correctional officer, they 20 will tell you that it is not the long-term 21 convicts that are their problem. They are, for 22 the most part, fairly peaceable. They've 23 learned to live in the system because they know 1 they're going to be there indefinitely. It is 2 the short-termers that are causing them to have 3 to react against violent attacks. 4 I would like to mention a few 5 things that I have mentioned in prior years, but 6 for me they are the most meaningful. We -- it 7 is highly likely that, were we to adopt a death 8 penalty in New York State, that we would not use 9 it. There are a great many states that have the 10 death penalty that do not use it. Therefore, 11 it's there for political comfort, but it's not 12 there for reality. And why is that true? It's 13 true because of the cost of the death penalty. 14 We have so many things burdening us now, things 15 that ought to be financed more than we are 16 capable now of financing them, and, therefore, 17 to expend a million dollars, let's say, which is 18 not a high figure, a million dollars for -- to 19 put someone to death, is a great cost when you 20 consider that very often the cases are not 21 upheld and, therefore, the state loses the 22 case. To explain to our citizens that we have 23 just thrown away a million or two million 1 dollars in an effort which more than likely is 2 going to fail is a very difficult one for people 3 and why most other states are not using the 4 death penalty, even though they have it on the 5 books. 6 There are other arguments which 7 bear more weight with me, though, and one and 8 perhaps the two that I would say the most 9 significant to me is that there is no other 10 country in the industrialized world, in Europe, 11 throughout many of the other industrialized 12 nations, that has a death penalty. A single 13 country that does is South Africa and, while I 14 admire the moves that they are trying to make 15 now, it is not a country whose system I would 16 like to replicate. 17 Also, we have heard from all 18 religious leaders, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, 19 the leaders of our religion, tell us that this 20 is wrong, that this is not something that we 21 should be doing, and I feel strongly it is not 22 something I would want to be associated with 23 and, therefore, I will be voting no. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Saland. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Mr. President, I rise in support 6 of Senator Volker's bill, which I happen to be a 7 co-sponsor, and let me just see if I can hit a 8 couple of things which perhaps some of my other 9 colleagues have addressed. 10 First, Mr. President, if anybody 11 who is a proponent of this measure thinks that 12 somehow or other this is going to be a panacea 13 that's going to eliminate crime, violent crime, 14 they're certainly looking to the wrong vehicle, 15 because it just isn't that simple. 16 That's not to say that this 17 measure is not appropriately what I would term a 18 weapon in an arsenal against crime. I'm 19 concerned when I hear mention of life without 20 parole as an alternative. Now, I don't want to 21 play a semantic game or get into wordsmanship, 22 but an alternative implies a choice. Death 23 without -- life without parole is offered not as 1 an alternative but as a substitute. It's a 2 "take it or leave it" proposition. That's not 3 by anybody's definition an alternative. 4 If the Governor wants to propose 5 a bill whereby he says, under certain 6 circumstances, consideration can be given to 7 either the death penalty or life without parole, 8 that provides an alternative, but please, 9 Governor, and please, those who so passionately 10 and ardently support life without parole, for 11 which I do not begrudge anybody holding their 12 position, don't tell me it's an alternative when 13 it's a substitute. 14 I hear some comment about what 15 goes on in other states and what goes on in 16 other countries. The interesting thing that 17 seems to be most singularly lacking from the 18 death penalty debate, any death penalty debate 19 that I've ever sat in, in this chamber or the 20 other chamber, is that nobody ever discusses the 21 bill. 22 Now, I heard at some length 23 Senator Gold make reference to some incidents in 1 which some individuals were wrongfully found 2 guilty of what would turn out to be a capital 3 crime. Now, the last time I looked at the Texas 4 statute, which was some two or three years ago 5 -- and I assume it hasn't changed much -- I 6 think it was approximately two pages long. It 7 might have been only the one-pager that I saw 8 which was either Georgia or Florida. 9 The difference between that bill 10 and this bill is the difference between night 11 and day. As recently as several years ago, and 12 I have the publication here, the Civil Liberties 13 Union put out a piece, and I'll just give you 14 the substance of what it says. There were no 15 reported instances basically since the line of 16 Gregg v. Georgia and Furman v. Georgia cases 17 under which the United States Supreme Court in 18 the mid- and early '70s set out the guidelines 19 under which, if you wanted to have a death 20 penalty on your books, you had to adhere to 21 certain requirements. 22 What are those requirements? 23 Those requirements are a so-called bifurcated 1 trial, under this bill, as you would have to 2 have, you would have to have the possibility of 3 having 24 jurors, 12 to get into the question of 4 guilt or innocence, 12 to get into the question 5 of whether the death penalty should be applied. 6 You have to show that mitigating 7 circumstances, not merely outright, but substan 8 tially outright mitigating circumstances. There 9 is no nation on the face of this earth that has 10 ever bent over further to accommodate the rights 11 of individuals, and I'm not aware of any death 12 penalty proposal, either proposed, not on the 13 books or actually on the books, that in greater 14 detail accommodates the rights of defendants 15 than does this measure. 16 You have the right of an 17 immediate appeal to the Court of Appeals. 18 You're guaranteed experienced counsel and you're 19 guaranteed that your fees will be paid. In 20 addition, there's language in this bill that 21 attempts to get away -- forget the Babson vs. 22 Kentucky cases under which you can play with the 23 jury examination and eliminate people based upon 1 their race, the U.S. Supreme Court said you 2 can't do that. They did that three or four 3 years ago for those who might not have caught 4 the decision. 5 But this bill -- this bill says 6 very clearly, if you go to the Court of Appeals, 7 it says the court shall determine whether the 8 sentence of justice was imposed under the 9 influence of passion, prejudice or any other 10 arbitrary factors and whether the sentence of 11 death is excessive or disproportionate to the 12 penalty imposed in similar cases. 13 Now, you would think that the 14 application of those kinds of standards, 15 particularly by the Court of Appeals of the 16 state of New York, unquestionably the most 17 liberal in terms of criminal justice decisions 18 of any of the highest appellate courts of any 19 state within the 50 states, you would think you 20 would be hard-pressed to find that a Court of 21 Appeals in this state would not, under the 22 ammunition given them, reverse any decision in 23 which for some reason a jury had come to a 1 decision wrongfully or a death penalty had been 2 imposed wrongfully. 3 Now, the opponents of the death 4 penalty say that it's not a deterrent. However, 5 the contrary would seem to be at the very least 6 true, the death penalty has not been a deter 7 rent. The numbers have certainly skyrocketed, 8 and I'm still waiting for the one person who 9 opposes the death penalty who tells me how you 10 prove a negative. Please tell me how you prove 11 a negative. 12 How in the world do you get into 13 the mind of an individual who contemplates 14 killing his partner, contemplates killing his 15 unfaithful spouse, contemplates killing the 16 lover of the person who he or she is madly in 17 love with, and then says, wait a minute, I don't 18 want to take this risk because of the death 19 penalty? How do you prove that, folks? Who in 20 the world can prove a negative? Never has been 21 proven, never will be able to be proven. Sort 22 of takes, I would think, at least some of the 23 wind out of the sails of those who say the death 1 penalty isn't a deterrent. 2 The cost of the death penalty, 3 another argument. Well, the cost of the death 4 penalty, the cost of the death penalty has been 5 determined by basically one study, one study 6 done by the Defenders' Association approximately 7 a decade ago, a study which I think in part is 8 self-serving, by advocates, people who oppose 9 the imposition of the death penalty, a study 10 which is derived by data available from other 11 states. 12 At that time, which I believe was 13 somewhere between '80 and '82, the Defenders' 14 Association said a capital trial will cost you 15 somewhere in excess of a million dollars. The 16 State of Texas will tell you that it costs 17 closer to a quarter of a million dollars. The 18 state of Alaska will give you similar numbers. 19 I've spoken with my own district attorney. He 20 wonders where that number comes from. If he had 21 to handle a capital case, it would be one 22 quarter of the number given by the Defenders' 23 Association, not just his cost, the total cost, 1 and the Defenders' Association study does not 2 count the cost of the trial that you're going to 3 have in any event, and nowhere does it factor in 4 the cost of what it takes to incarcerate an 5 individual. 6 I mean if you want to do it on a 7 cost/benefit analysis which I think is the 8 crassest way to deal with an extraordinarily 9 difficult subject, I think you ought to have 10 your head examined. But I'm just saying don't 11 play with those numbers. 12 The reality is it's not an easy 13 decision. I've never demeaned anybody for 14 opposing me. I've always believed that there 15 are sets of circumstances under which people 16 could agree that the crime is so vile, the crime 17 is so heinous, that we could all get a 18 consensus. Remember, this bill -- this bill 19 does not deal with someone who is jaywalking. 20 This bill does not deal, excuse me for being 21 flip, but it doesn't deal with someone who may 22 be intoxicated, hops up on a curb and happens to 23 kill somebody who happens to be an innocent 1 pedestrian. 2 This bill enumerates a number of 3 specific classifications of capital crimes where 4 someone has premeditatedly chosen to take the 5 life of another. This isn't an accident. This 6 isn't an act which was committed negligently. 7 This is where you premeditated, you determined 8 to take somebody's life and chose to fulfill 9 that act, not where you backed off for fear of 10 the death penalty. You pulled the trigger, you 11 plunged the knife, you used the poison, whatever 12 it is. You planted the bomb, just like the bomb 13 that was planted down in New York City this past 14 week. 15 I mean, these are bad folks. 16 These aren't -- well, these aren't Sunday school 17 kids. These are the real thing, folks; these 18 are really bad guys. 19 I don't -- I don't think that 20 anybody could disagree, going back to the Lemuel 21 Smith case -- and that happened in my county - 22 this man didn't kill once, he didn't kill twice, 23 he didn't kill three times, he didn't kill four 1 times, he killed five times, and when he killed 2 the fifth time he took out a woman correction 3 officer. Five times the guy killed. 4 Is there any justification 5 whatsoever for permitting that person, for 6 permitting that man, if you want to call him 7 that, to have killed four human beings and given 8 him the opportunity to kill a fifth? 9 Now, let me share with you 10 something. A member of my family was the victim 11 of an attempted murder. I would settle for 12 nothing less than a death penalty if that person 13 had taken my son's life, and he wouldn't deserve 14 anything better than that, and society would be 15 well-served by it. You may disagree, but we 16 ought to talk about the bill, and we ought to 17 compare apples and apples, not oranges and 18 oranges. 19 We ought to be comparing similar 20 bills dealing with similar subjects, and it's 21 nice that we have our opinions and they're 22 fervently held and passionately spoken about, 23 but the reality is that this bill is clearly 1 head and shoulders above most that I have seen 2 and I've seen a lot of them, and this bill, as I 3 said earlier, bends over backwards to 4 accommodate the rights of defendants. 5 Will it make crime go away? It 6 certainly will not. But there are some people 7 that commit acts that are so vile that they, by 8 their acts, not because of anything that you 9 have done, not because of anything that I have 10 done, but society has the right to say, You have 11 forfeited your life. And you know what? These 12 other countries, if they had the kinds of murder 13 rates that we have, whether they're in western 14 Europe, whether they're -- wherever they may be 15 located, you can rest assured that they wouldn't 16 look down and frown upon the death penalty the 17 way so many of them seem to. 18 Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Marchi. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 22 was born in the year 1921. That year was the 23 last year that a -- it was a felony murder that 1 an individual who had committed homicide was 2 sentenced by a jury on Staten Island, and it 3 never happened again right up to the time of 4 1963 when -- when the penalty was abolished in 5 this state, and I was here at the time that the 6 debate was held. 7 The question of deterrence in 8 this country had been decided against the death 9 penalty simply because it was simply not applied 10 any more. There were very, very few states in 11 this country that awarded the death penalty and 12 the ebb and flow of criminal and violent actions 13 controlled by factors far beyond the severity of 14 a punishment, and I know that the distinguished 15 sponsor mentioned the fact that there is no 16 evidence really, that it's difficult to prove 17 one way or the other, and that there is 18 reasonable grounds to believe that it can be a 19 deterrent. 20 Charles Dickens observed that 21 there were thousands and thousands of people who 22 went to witness the -- the hanging of criminals 23 and it was a great festive occasion, and there 1 were thousands, tens of thousands of people that 2 would gather, and it was conducted publicly on 3 the assumption that the fact that it was public 4 and that everybody saw it, it would act as a 5 deterrent. So he interviewed 267 consecutive 6 homicide killers who were -- before hanging, he 7 interviewed them, and said, Have you ever 8 witnessed a prior homicide? Out of 267, Charles 9 Dickens reminds us that 264 had witnessed a 10 prior hanging. 11 I don't know whether that's 12 overwhelming or persuasive, but to me it tells 13 one story, I think, that -- one message, that in 14 those circumstances you also trigger a morbid 15 propensity. That's why I, many times when you 16 have a heinous crime, several of them appear and 17 are committed. This is in states that never had 18 capital punishment along with states that did 19 and that fact, I think, speaks very eloquently 20 to the -- to the notion that we are stimulating 21 and provoking that morbid propensity when we 22 visit the public with an execution; and it can 23 only -- it cannot elicit the best in people. It 1 can only enlist the very worse in some of -- in 2 some people. 3 But I -- most of the advanced 4 nations of this world who have had extensive 5 experience, and England had many, many execu 6 tions before they finally abolished it 7 altogether, but today with the fraction of the 8 crimes that we have, they are -- they do not 9 have them, and I don't believe that those states 10 that have the death penalty have shown any 11 significant progress in the advance of human 12 sentiment or tenderness with respect to life. 13 The example of Florida is not one 14 to be hailed. I remember when they sentenced an 15 individual by the name of Spenalunk, a radio 16 announcer was frying bacon over a radio show and 17 he said that that was Spenalunk frying for his 18 crime, and people were cheering outside. I'm 19 not saying that this necessarily has to happen 20 in every state, but I think most people realize 21 that this is -- this is pretty tough business. 22 We introduce resolutions for 23 people who have rendered significant public 1 service, and at the time that we debated this 2 thing in 1963, I challenged anybody to produce 3 the example of any public servant who had acted 4 as an executioner who was the object of a 5 citation, a testimonial dinner or a resolution 6 by the Legislature. 7 I think it was the feeling, a gut 8 feeling, that this is dirty business, and I have 9 certainly, if I were inclined to vote that way, 10 I have the highest respect for the sense of 11 fairness and the professional respect that I 12 hold for sponsorship of this legislation, this 13 would be a bill that is safeguarded. But the 14 end product is negative, I believe, in terms of 15 its impact on a society in which we live, and I 16 -- I would hope that we -- we confirm the 17 wisdom that sensitive people around the world 18 have gravitated to because it has proved itself 19 as a far better way and a far better -- a way 20 that is in greater -- identifies much more 21 closely with the dignity that we attach to life 22 and that this bill not prevail. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1 Volker, to close the debate. Oh, I'm sorry. 2 Senator Paterson. I didn't see you. Oh, 3 Senator Smith, you were there behind the lamp. 4 She was on the list also. You're next. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Before Senator Volker concludes 8 the debate, I'd like to congratulate him and 9 thank him for raising this issue over and over 10 again. I don't agree with it, but I think it's 11 a significant issue that is on the minds of a 12 great number of citizens of our state, and I 13 think it needs to be revisited as many times and 14 this is the 17th time and I'll be back for the 15 18th time hopefully, because I hope it doesn't 16 pass. But nonetheless it's an example, I think, 17 of a myriad number of issues in this state that 18 need to come before this body, and I certainly 19 think that a great deal of effort has gone into 20 it. 21 I can't support this 22 legislation. I think that some of the comments 23 that Senator Marchi made were most apropos. It 1 has something to do with the notion of coalesced 2 dreams, that violence begets violence, that this 3 public outcry about violence, this condemnation 4 of death but yet it is actually the front page 5 headline, the consistent winner of grasping 6 public attention, the savage brutal murder of an 7 individual. 8 Just a few days ago, we had the 9 savage bombing of the World Trade Center. There 10 were five lives lost in that conflict. I 11 received a telephone call about two hours before 12 that bombing that a family member of mine would 13 be in the World Trade Center having lunch with 14 someone. It was three hours before I knew that 15 this family member was safe. It doesn't matter 16 that it was my particular family member. There 17 were five families that lost members that 18 particular day. 19 I would be happy to say that the 20 way I was feeling Friday afternoon, if I knew 21 exactly who'd been involved in that conflict, I 22 likely would have killed them. But the reality 23 is that, when we come to the Legislature and 1 pass laws, we are hopefully bringing with us the 2 sobriety of the opportunity to look at 3 legislation with a clear thought pattern and 4 without the pressures or the exigencies that are 5 caused by such a lugubrious circumstance as we 6 witnessed just in our own state right in front 7 of our own state edifices last Friday. 8 The issue of the death penalty 9 which is -- was rendered unconstitutional in 10 Furman vs. Georgia in 1972 which held that the 11 death penalty was unconstitutional - 12 unconstitutional through the cruel and unusual 13 clause, through the Eighth and Fourteenth 14 Amendments, is really not the issue that we 15 would be considering because the awareness of 16 time as it impinges upon the concept of justice 17 will determine whether or not our Supreme Court 18 supports or upholds the death penalty. 19 It really is the outcry of the 20 public that will determine whether or not we 21 have or don't have a death penalty, and I'm sure 22 that those who advocate for either side can find 23 a constitutional reason why we should or 1 shouldn't have it. 2 The fact is that we don't have 3 any sympathy for the people who commit the stark 4 crimes that we've heard described here today. 5 In many respects, even those of us who morally 6 may be opposed to the death penalty probably in 7 our hearts could care less about what happens to 8 individuals who kill four different people and 9 then make the fifth victim of their savage wrath 10 a correction officer. 11 But the fact is that the death 12 penalty as it is constructed right now and as it 13 has been practiced in the state of New York has 14 been unconstitutional not as much for its 15 validity but because the dispensation of it has 16 never been fair. It has always discriminated 17 against the poor. It has always had a sexual 18 case proclivity in one direction and it has 19 always been racially unfair. We know that the 20 number of executions in this country held 21 between 1930 and 1990 were 4,016, that 2,129 of 22 them were African-Americans. That's 53 23 percent. Those who were executed for the crime 1 of murder counted the number of 3,343. The 2 numbers who were African-Americans in that case 3 were 1,669. 4 But it's not just those who are 5 being prosecuted but even the rights of the 6 victims that are not properly executed through 7 our Constitution when it comes to the death 8 penalty. In the McCloskey vs. Kemp case that 9 was argued before the Supreme Court in 1987, the 10 statistics bore out that in Georgia that 11 prosecutors sought the death penalty 79 percent 12 of the time when the defendant was white and 13 only 37 of the time when the defendant was not. 14 From 1977 to 1992, there have 15 been 168 executions in this country. Only 29 of 16 them when the victim was non-white and in only 17 one case where the victim was non-white and the 18 perpetrator was actually white. That was until 19 the case of Gary Gilmore, who was executed on 20 January the 20th, 1977 for killing a -- two 21 African-Americans, but also was on death row for 22 killing two white Americans at the same time. 23 Prior to that case, there had 1 never been an instance in the United States 2 history where the -- an African-American victim 3 or a non-white victim had ever had a white 4 defendant sentenced and executed for that 5 particular crime. 6 So the discrepancy in the 7 dispensation of the death penalty is so out of 8 proportion with any population statistics or 9 even viable conviction statistics, that it makes 10 it highly impossible for us to discharge this 11 penalty in any kind of a fair way. 12 What does that leave us? A very 13 inadequate system called life without parole 14 where individuals will have to be attended to 15 for the better part of their lives at a point 16 that they are convicted of murdering or some 17 other crime that creates the death penalty along 18 with it. 19 This is not a perfect solution, 20 but it is a solution that should be considered 21 on the floor of this house along with the death 22 penalty so that those of us who resist the death 23 penalty as a remedy can exercise this option so 1 that we can make sure that individuals who are 2 committing such heinous crimes never see the 3 light of day or the crowdedness of our streets 4 again, and I certainly hope that that will be 5 considered by the sponsors as an alternative at 6 a point that we have a stalemate such that we 7 can not pass the death penalty as it is now. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Smith. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Let me first apologize for being 13 out of the chamber at the time that my name was 14 called. But I was dealing with something that I 15 feel was totally discriminatory in practice and, 16 because of that, I am asking that the remarks 17 that I made in 1992 be recorded in the record on 18 behalf of the mentally retarded and because of 19 what I am experiencing today as a member of this 20 body and a minority, I'd like to follow up what 21 my colleague David Paterson has said. 22 Until the criminal justice system 23 is equally and fairly dispensed, we have no 1 place for this bill. Until the victims of 2 poverty are no longer forced to live under 3 conditions that they live under, there is no 4 place for this bill. Until we have dealt with 5 gun control and bias-related crimes, we can not 6 deal with the death penalty. And until people 7 who look like Joe Galiber and Olga Mendez and 8 Senator Montgomery and David Paterson and I are 9 treated fairly in this city, the state, this 10 country, and in these chambers, there is no 11 place for a death penalty. 12 And I think that sometimes we may 13 seem to over-react, but it's people like us who 14 live in our communities and with their vote they 15 gave us the responsibility for looking out for 16 their well-being and the well-being of their 17 children and, therefore, it is with sadness that 18 we have to come to this point and that we must 19 be forced to vote no on an issue that I 20 understand most of you are sincere about. 21 I think we need to look at ways 22 of combatting crime rather than trying to kill 23 more people. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Volker to sum up or close debate. 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 4 Mr. President, I realize -- I realize first of 5 all, that, first of all, obviously whenever 6 you're talking about life and death, clearly and 7 unequivocally you're talking about emotional 8 issues, and I also realize that we live in a 9 political society as well as a society that is 10 dominated by a media that sometimes is a little 11 bit selective in what they report. 12 For instance, I'd just like to 13 mention that, Senator Gold, you and I know that 14 a convicted murderer that is able to get a new 15 trial after ten years, the chances of that 16 person being reconvicted are so slim for all 17 sorts of reasons in our system, whether that 18 person is under a death penalty warrant or any 19 kind of a conviction. 20 By the way, Senator, I said to 21 you before, under our system, if a person is 22 found innocent, they're innocent. That doesn't 23 mean they didn't commit the crime. A lot of 1 friends of mine who are prosecutors, when I 2 heard that people had been found innocent, I'd 3 say to them, just one question: Did they do 4 this, did they do the deed? Very often they'll 5 say yes. 6 But one of the problems, you 7 know, and I was in Canada here some years ago up 8 in Montreal. I used to do quite a bit of 9 traveling years ago when I was doing a lot more 10 security information for the Legislature, and 11 the commander of the Montreal police said to me, 12 The problem with your system down there is your 13 people are innocent until proved guilty. You 14 ought to have our system. We're gettin' that 15 way. You know, up here they're guilty until 16 proved innocent, and I said to him, Yeah, I 17 guess you're right, but, I said, I'll tell you 18 something, I still like our system better. 19 I watched some of the cases in 20 the Montreal courts. It was sort of 21 interesting. I know there are people, I suppose 22 here, certainly some of my constituents who say 23 now that's the way to move these cases. I mean 1 the judge sits there and looks at them and says, 2 How do you plead? And the police officer says, 3 This guy did this. Just about that was it for 4 the most part. 5 So, if you think our system is 6 unfair, you think our system in some places is 7 slanted, you ain't seen nothin' until you see 8 some of the other countries in this world. 9 There was a mention here about 10 civilization. It's always fascinated me that, 11 in a society that kills its young sometimes, in 12 a society where bullets are flying all over the 13 place, not just bullets, but knives and bombs - 14 Senator Leichter, I'd like to know what gun 15 control would have done for the people in the 16 World Trade Center. I'm not exactly sure what 17 gun control would do to stop that bomb. I'm not 18 exactly sure what gun control would do for the 19 young girl nearby here who was dismembered by a 20 fellow with a knife. In fact, that's one of the 21 problems. 22 Senator, I'd like to ask a 23 question. You talked about police officers. 1 Ask any police officer in this state what he 2 would really like to have. What is it, what is 3 his highest priority, and I think he'll tell you 4 the death penalty, and he'll tell you, Ah, with 5 the gun control is because we don't know what 6 else to do. It's our frustration with the 7 newspapers and everything else. I hear that all 8 the time. They don't really believe gun control 9 is going to do anything. 10 Senator, we got the -- we got a 11 state that's supposed to have the toughest gun 12 control statute except in D.C., of course, where 13 nobody gets killed because they got such a great 14 gun control statute. We all know there's no 15 killings in D.C. 16 Let me just correct a few things, 17 and you talk about we don't get into the 18 issues. Senator, we brought in these issues. 19 We have debated the issue of cost of prosecu 20 tion, that was 1987 I believe we debated that 21 issue, and showed that the Defenders' 22 Association, either they fabricated a bit or 23 they outright lied, because the cost -- we 1 couldn't find any cases even rivaling anything 2 even close to their stupid study, and I hate to 3 use that word. 4 The most expensive death penalty 5 case in the United States of America was the Ted 6 Bundy case where they dragged Ted Bundy all over 7 the country and the reason they did it is they 8 were pickin' up dead bodies as they went, 9 because as they went around Bundy was pointing 10 out graves, and finally they executed him, by 11 the way, because finally he was giving them such 12 bad information and they got fed up with him 13 because he was leading them in circles. There's 14 no telling, by the way, how many people Ted 15 Bundy killed because, in fact, one of the 16 victims that either he or one of his partners 17 killed ended up being from western New York. 18 They believe that either his compadre -- they 19 believe it was his compadre -- may have killed 20 somebody in the Buffalo area, maybe even in 21 Rochester. There is no way of telling how many 22 people he killed. 23 Senator -- go ahead. 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will you 2 yield? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 5 just want to say that the reference to the cost 6 of the trials and how extremely expensive they 7 would be, and clearly that cost-effectiveness 8 doesn't come from the Defenders' Association, it 9 comes from the New York State Bar Association 10 and they repeated it just in a letter dated 11 February 9th, 1993. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: M-m h-m-m. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: So I just 14 thought you'd want the record corrected to that 15 extent. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: No, the issue - 17 let me just say that the bar association also is 18 referring to the Defenders' Association report 19 which I'm telling you, and it was mentioned 20 here, by the way, not by you, by someone else, 21 what I'm telling you that the bar association, 22 frankly, didn't pay much attention, just keep 23 repeating this report which I'm telling you is 1 fabricated, is nonsense. We checked it out. We 2 couldn't come up with any numbers even close to 3 what they were talkin' about. 4 Remember for a second, if you 5 really want to talk about life without parole, 6 incarcerate a maximum security inmate today 7 costs pretty close to $70,000 a year. You 8 better take a look at the numbers. If that 9 person is going to be there for a long time I 10 don't think I have to tell you how quickly that 11 amount totals up. 12 I only point that out because I 13 don't think we should, frankly, use that as an 14 issue. Senator Paterson, some years ago we did 15 a study and it's -- in fact, it's in the memo, 16 the death penalty memo, if you look, dealing 17 with the issue of race. 18 What we found is in New York - 19 and these were death penalty cases, we took the 20 -- they studied every death penalty case in 21 this state's history, and I won't give you the 22 exact numbers because they're in the death 23 penalty memo, but they showed that in New York 1 the balance was very good. The balance was 2 pretty good of those who were executed as 3 blacks, whites, Indians, and so forth, but the 4 ratio was a ratio that was generally accepted to 5 be one that certainly no one would complain 6 about. 7 I want to point that out because 8 although there had been some numbers that have 9 been floated in certain parts of the country 10 and, by the way, as I've said many times, I 11 don't dispute that there were discrepancies in 12 the south, Georgia, for instance, I believe it 13 was had death penalty for burglary and the only 14 people executed were eight blacks. Certainly 15 there's a clear example, and that's why the 16 death penalty was thrown out nationwide, by the 17 way, and those kinds of states should have had 18 the death penalty thrown out. There isn't any 19 question about it, and I'd be the first one to 20 tell you that. 21 The issue of the fact that 22 there's no indication or that the issue that 23 there have been states where, after the death 1 penalty was reinstituted, there were more 2 murders. I'm sorry, there's no state in the 3 Union like New York. That's why the national 4 death penalty people are so worried about New 5 York. There is no state in the Union where the 6 murder rate has surged the way it did in New 7 York after the death penalty was abolished, 8 although all over the country the murder rate 9 moved up dramatically after the Supreme Court 10 abolished the death penalty. 11 And keep in mind something about 12 Florida. People keep citing Florida; they got a 13 death penalty. Yeah. The whole state was out 14 of control then and there. All sorts of 15 problems that occurred in Florida that have 16 completely got that state out of control and all 17 law enforcement people and a lot of people that 18 oppose the death penalty admit there are factors 19 there that have tripped that state out of 20 control. 21 Let me just finish by saying 22 this. I understand very well the emotions that 23 are involved in this kind of issue and the fact 1 that we have a lot of local issues that enter 2 into these sorts of things, and we talk about 3 civilization, and we talk about courage. I can 4 only say this. What do I know? I just -- I'm 5 just a person who lives in an area that once 6 thought it was an area reasonably free of crime, 7 although it wasn't entirely free of crime as 8 people thought it was, but one of the things I 9 think that people have begun to realize is, as 10 people in Buffalo, for instance, somebody 11 mentioned Buffalo -- Buffalo just had the second 12 highest murder rate for last year, for 1992, in 13 the history of the city of Buffalo. 14 Let me tell you when the highest 15 was: Two years after the death penalty was 16 abolished, the murder rate suddenly surged in 17 Buffalo. Somehow that didn't get mentioned in 18 the paper. I didn't see that in the paper 19 anywhere. In fact, all across the state there 20 isn't too much mention of what happened right 21 after that, because I don't think it would fit 22 into some little cubicle some place. 23 I can only tell you this: I'm 1 not saying, and, Senator Saland, I want to 2 compliment him for his reading of the bill, for 3 the fact that he obviously studied it very 4 closely, and I know there are people in this 5 chamber, by the way, who over the years have 6 done some very thorough research on it, and we 7 have had very technical debates on it, but I 8 also know that these issues are issues that are 9 not issues of technicality. 10 If this bill becomes law, it is 11 not going to solve the crime problem. I'll be 12 the first one to tell you that. If this bill 13 becomes law, it's not going to stop murder, 14 that's for sure. But I will tell you this, once 15 again: You can say all you want about the fact 16 it will make no difference. You can tell me 17 from now until the end of this session that it 18 will make no difference, but I tell you, if you 19 want to start to truly make a difference in the 20 criminal justice system, if you want to start to 21 truly say to those people that hit in New York 22 City with that bomb or to those people who in 23 this state have killed wantonly, if you want to 1 send them a message, this is the most prime 2 message you can send them. This is the message 3 that we can send that, if you take a life, 4 especially if you take multiple lives, because 5 this bill, by the way, is clearly designed so 6 that those people have a big problem, I'll be 7 the first, to be honest with you, there's three 8 sections in this bill that would deal with 9 people who kill multiple people and who are 10 involved in terrorism. 11 Somebody said to me, Why don't 12 you put in the bill terrorism? I said, I don't 13 have to; it's there. If we want to really say 14 to the people who would murder, You'd better be 15 careful if you want to do it in New York, then 16 this is the bill to do it. You may not believe 17 that, but I'll tell you right now, if you want 18 to send a message to the street, this is the 19 message to send. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Slow 22 roll call. Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 1 act shall take effect on the 1st day of November 2 next succeeding the date on which it shall have 3 become a law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Roll 5 call. Go ahead. Ring the bell. Sergeant, 6 would you try to round up the members? 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 8 excused. 9 Senator Bruno. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Bruno, how do you vote? 12 SENATOR BRUNO: I vote yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor 14 excused. 15 Senator Cook. 16 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator DeFrancisco. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Explain my 21 vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 DeFrancisco to explain his vote. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I intend to 2 vote yes on this legislation. I know there's 3 many different theories behind justification for 4 punishment. I know rehabilitation isn't 5 appropriate in this particular case. Nobody has 6 been rehabilitated from the death penalty and 7 I'm not so sure that it's such a strong de 8 terrent. I don't think mass murderers think too 9 much about what state they're going to commit 10 their crimes in or people who plant bombs think 11 about that too much either. 12 On the other hand, one thing that 13 death penalties do, and that's incapacitate. 14 Unfortunately, no matter how humane we want to 15 be, there are some people in society for which 16 there is simply no better remedy for the conduct 17 that they have chosen to take. If it were not, 18 however, for the strong procedural safeguards 19 that are found in this bill, I would vote no, 20 but I feel very strongly that much of the 21 concern that many of the legislators have raised 22 concerning the discrimination issues, concerning 23 poverty issues, and the like, are dealt with in 1 the very carefully drawn procedural safeguards 2 that are contained in this bill and, for those 3 reasons, I intend to vote yes, or I do vote 4 yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 DeFrancisco is in the affirmative. Continue the 7 roll. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 12 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 19 just want to explain my vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Gold to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Volker, if 23 you're doing this because you believe that the 1 punishment -- punishment for taking human life 2 should be the death penalty, fine, but Senator, 3 I have -- I respect you much too much. 4 This bill is going to send a 5 message to terrorists. You said that. You 6 ought to have that deleted from your speech. A 7 message to terrorists? A terrorist gets in a 8 plane and he doesn't like the way the coffee 9 smells, he blows up the plane with himself. 10 I mean this is a message to 11 terrorists? This would have stopped anything 12 that happened yesterday? 13 I vote no. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Gold in the negative. Continue the roll. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Gonzalez. 18 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Halperin. 23 SENATOR HALPERIN: No. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 2 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Hoffmann. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 11 SENATOR JONES: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 19 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 1 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 6 to explain my vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Maltese to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 10 when I was elected to represent my constituents, 11 I made them a promise, and that promise was one 12 of the promises that I made was that I would do 13 everything in my power to help enact a death 14 penalty for the state of New York. 15 Now, I previously served as an 16 assistant district attorney and deputy chief of 17 the homicide bureau and in that capacity, I had 18 occasion to speak with not only the families of 19 victims, but with the perpetrators and in some 20 cases, since they had not expired at the time of 21 my arrival, with the victims themselves, and I 22 say this crime is a terrible crime. Everyone 23 that has spoken, no matter which side of the 1 aisle, has indicated that they agree it is the 2 most heinous crime, the taking of a human life. 3 Mr. President, I feel that a 4 person who takes a human life should pay with 5 the ultimate penalty. That is retribution. It 6 is also simple justice. We in this chamber, as 7 all legislators, have taken a sworn -- have 8 taken an oath to do the best we can for our 9 constituents, to do our duty. There were 10 statements made about the willingness to take a 11 human life. There is a distinct difference, Mr. 12 President, in taking a life on behalf of 13 government to save other lives and the act of 14 taking a life as a murderer. 15 Mr. President, I feel that we who 16 represent the city of New York have even a more 17 -- a more onerous burden. That burden is 18 watching the death rate from murder skyrocket so 19 that New York is becoming the capital, the 20 murder capital of the United States of America. 21 My own county, Queens County, which was known as 22 the bedroom of New York and a home owners' 23 county, is part of that gigantic increase in 1 homicides. 2 Mr. President, I feel we should 3 send a message, a message of deterrence and, 4 yes, even a message of retribution and justice. 5 I vote aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Maltese is in the affirmative. Continue the 8 roll call. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 12 (Affirmative indication.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 14 Senator Markowitz. 15 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Masiello. 18 SENATOR MASIELLO: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mega. 20 (Affirmative indication.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 22 Senator Mendez. 23 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Mendez to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: To explain my 4 vote, and to request that my statement from last 5 year in this same debate be included in the 6 record. 7 I just want to mention after 8 everything is said and done, the bottom line as 9 far as I'm concerned, is presumed in that same 10 quote that I used last year and that is, quote, 11 "the constant emphasis on capital punishment is 12 preventing us from giving real attention and 13 resources to the problem of crime in a modern 14 democracy," end of quote, and that was the 15 statement made by British Prime Minister Edward 16 Heath long, long ago, Mr. President. 17 I vote no. Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Mendez is in the negative. Continue the roll. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 23 President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Montgomery, where is she? 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, I'm 5 sorry, Senator Montgomery to explain your vote. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, to 7 explain my vote, Mr. President. 8 Briefly, I just would like to 9 remind my colleagues that, in addition to the 10 number of other reasons that have been raised by 11 other colleagues to vote against this bill, I'd 12 like to remind Senator Volker that the bill is 13 opposed by the Council of Churches of New York 14 State and the Catholic Conference, and there was 15 a statement made by the bishop at that time, 16 Francis Mugavero, that the death penalty is a 17 savage act. He made that statement in 1989 18 before he died, and the council on this side of 19 the aisle has -- has put together some 20 information which I find incredible, and they 21 refer to a number of states in the south as the 22 "southern death belt". 23 So I gather that Senator Volker 1 is going to have the "southern death belt" plus 2 one, that's us. We will be joining Alabama, 3 Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South 4 Carolina and Virginia, where 93 percent of all 5 of the executions, I understand, have been done 6 since 1977. 7 We will also be joining the 8 illustrious nations of Iraq, Iran, Libya, South 9 Africa, Syria, China, Vietnam and Cuba, the 10 former Soviet Union, who also have the death 11 penalty, and I left out Texas because right now, 12 as we speak, unless that has been resolved, 13 there is a gentleman by the name of Jesus Christ 14 -- at least he refers to himself as Jesus 15 Christ, my understanding is -- holed up in a 16 town called Waco, Texas. This is where they 17 have the death penalty, and the death penalty is 18 used so frequently that the attorney general of 19 Texas has said that it is not a deterrent 20 because people pay no mind to it any more, they 21 have used it so much that this isn't a deterrent 22 at all, and Jesus Christ has killed four federal 23 agents in -- over the last three days in Waco, 1 Texas. 2 So clearly I'm not -- I'm not 3 convinced at all, Senator Volker, that your bill 4 is going to accomplish any of the things that 5 you say and, in addition, between 1977 and 1988, 6 of 2,951 offenders, only 81 were executed with 7 725 having their cases reversed in the appellate 8 courts or their sentences commuted, so there's 9 very likely cause that there will be mistakes 10 that we will be not intending to make and we 11 have any number of instances where people have 12 been released from a death penalty because of 13 some error in the judicial system. 14 So I am voting no on this. I 15 think it is a mistake. We certainly need to 16 deal with the crime, the issue of crime, I 17 agree. No one speaks more and excitedly about 18 it than me on this floor, but I don't believe 19 this is the way to go about it. 20 I vote no, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Montgomery is in the negative. Continue the 23 roll. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 2 SENATOR NOLAN: Explain my vote. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Nolan to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR NOLAN: I, too, vote in 6 the negative, and I -- you know, this is really 7 kind of -- I hadn't really planned on speaking 8 today, because I have quite a sore throat, but I 9 think that to bring this issue up year after 10 year after year, with no hope that the Governor 11 is going to sign it or that it's going to be 12 overridden by the Legislature has really become 13 a real waste of time. I've been in the Senate 14 here 19 years, and certainly for the last 16 or 15 17 years, we've wound up wasting days, hours, on 16 the subject. 17 Nothing is going to change. The 18 Governor is not going to sign this bill. The 19 Legislature is not going to override this 20 legislation, or override the Governor's veto. 21 Senator Montgomery was quite elegant in so many 22 of the reasons she pointed out as to why it's 23 certainly not a deterrent. 1 You mean somebody wouldn't have 2 blown up the World Trade Center if they knew 3 they were going to be executed as they got 4 caught. As she pointed out, in Waco, Texas 5 yesterday, four federal agents were killed and 6 they do have a death penalty in Texas. It's 7 certainly no question that every civilized 8 country in the western world has gotten rid of 9 the death penalty. 10 The whole question of minorities 11 being prejudiced by the death penalty since it 12 turns out that there's an abnormal percentage of 13 minorities wind up in death row. It's not right 14 and for all of these reasons, I'm opposed. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Nolan is in the negative. Continue the roll 17 call. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Nozzolio. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Ohrenstein. 23 (Negative indication. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: No. 2 Senator Onorato. 3 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 4 Oppenheimer. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 9 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Paterson will explain his vote. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 I would like the record to reflect that in 1984 17 I was in the Queens District Attorney's office 18 when we investigated the case of Nathaniel 19 Carter, who had been convicted of murder and two 20 years later the case was thrown out when it 21 became clear that he was not the perpetrator of 22 that crime. 23 Otherwise, I'd just like to point 1 out to Senator DeFrancisco and to Senator Volk 2 er, that the discrepancy of racial discrimina 3 tion is addressed in the legislation. It's not 4 rising to a threshold that I feel I can vote for 5 the legislation, but I think that there was some 6 sensitivity to that in this legislation. I 7 don't think it's enough, but I would ask that 8 Senator Volker again consider some of the 9 alternatives we've raised today and, again, I am 10 happy that he raised the issue. In fact, I'm so 11 sure that this legislation won't pass and that 12 Senator Volker will be in good health and will 13 be back to raise it again in 1994, Mr. 14 President, that I'd like my statement from 1994 15 put in the record awaiting the legislation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Paterson votes no. Continue the roll. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Santiago excused. 23 Senator Sears. 1 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 3 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer. 5 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Smith to explain her vote. 11 SENATOR SMITH: I would just like 12 to rise so that everyone can hear me say no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Smith is in the negative. Continue the roll. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: No -- oh, yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Solomon is in the affirmative, I believe. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 20 (Affirmative indication.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Stachowski. 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Stafford. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Stavisky. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Nope. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo 9 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 10 Senator Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 13 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Waldon to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Listening to my 21 colleagues here today, Mr. President, one could 22 conjure up reasons to go along with this 23 legislation. For example, if I were Biblical, I 1 would say, well, it's good to have an eye for an 2 eye, a tooth for a tooth. If I were being very 3 tribal, I would have the philosophy that if 4 someone injures one of my tribe, I must take 5 vengeance against their tribe. 6 If I were about fairness, which I 7 think is the real issue here when we deal with 8 the death penalty, I would say that African 9 Americans arrived at this nation's shores in 10 1619, a place now called Jamestown, Virginia as 11 20 indentured servants upon a boat, and we've 12 paid our dues since that time. 13 Symbolically, we're held out as 14 the first to die in the Revolutionary War in the 15 person of Crispus Attucks. We have fought val 16 iantly in the Civil War on the side of the 17 North, the 54th, the Fighting 54th from 18 Massachusetts. Every one knows of the exploits 19 of the 369th in the first World War, never lost 20 a battle, never took a backward step. Dorrie 21 Miller, one of the first to receive the 22 Congressional Medal of Honor in the second World 23 War, comported himself with valor -- valiantly, 1 even though he was not a trained gunner but a 2 cook who filled in as a gunner. This nation 3 also saw come from its African-American people 4 the likes of Benjamin O. Davis, Sr. and Jr. who 5 both rose to the rank of General. 6 We've paid our dues. We have now 7 as the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairperson Colin 8 Powell. So one could say that African-Americans 9 have paid their dues to be rightfully respected 10 and to be treated fairly. But when we look at 11 the data, we see that, though we are but 12 12 percent of the people in this nation, we have 13 been found guilty of the crime of murder and 14 executed disproportionately in excess of 50 15 percent. 16 So when we think about the death 17 penalty, we have to be aware that it has never, 18 ever been applied fairly where certain people 19 are concerned. What troubles me is not so much 20 the death penalty, but it is all else that we do 21 in this body, and that which is done in bodies 22 across this country similar to ours. No sense 23 of fairness. 1 An example as a quick aside. 2 Education. We need a Constitutional Amendment 3 in this state so that not only will we be 4 required to give a free education to our 5 students, but that it will be uniform and 6 efficient so that there can be equity, so that 7 the students in my district who have text books 8 that are 30 years old would not be in that 9 position, so that the students in my district 10 who have to have 10 and 12 students using but 11 the one computer, would have a computer per 12 child as in other districts of members who are 13 in this body. 14 We need to have equity so that 15 something like what is being proposed by our Lt. 16 Governor, the Career Pathways concept which 17 would force Latins and African-Americans and 18 Caribbean-Americans much too early make a choice 19 about their education. One, that would force 20 them into a philosophy that was O.K. when Booker 21 T. Washington was making his stand on behalf of 22 his people, our people, which would force those 23 students who make the decision too early to end 1 up in a vocational situation. Perhaps worse 2 than that is the Goldstein report which was 3 commissioned by Chancellor Ann Reynolds of CUNY 4 which will have students at York College not 5 have available to them a four-year liberal arts 6 education, but will take that school and down 7 grade it to where it will be no more than a 8 technical school, that is unfair, and as the 9 education of this state as we apply it here in 10 this chamber is unfair to African-Americans, 11 also is the death penalty unfair to African 12 Americans. 13 If somehow equity could be 14 brought about in the conjuring up of the death 15 penalty statute and at the same time equity 16 could be done regarding education, I might be 17 able to reconsider my position. 18 But considering those two things 19 juxtaposed to each other, both inherently 20 unfair, I must vote as I did last year, as I did 21 the year before, as I did in '83 and '84 and '85 22 and '86; I must vote in the negative. 23 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Waldon is in the negative. Continue the roll. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Absentees. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 8 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 14 19. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 There's a motion on the floor. 18 Who has it? Senator Gold, do you have a motion? 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, that's a 20 great idea. On behalf of Senator Babbush, on 21 page 5, Calendar 54, Senate Print 725, I ask 22 that -- offer the following amendments, ask the 23 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 1 Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 3 objection. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Take up 6 Calendar Number 30, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Calendar 30. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 30, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 232-A, 11 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 12 relation to penalties for unauthorized use of 13 parking spaces for handicapped persons. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Kuhl. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Would the 1 sponsor yield to a couple questions? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 3 sure he will. Senator Tully, will you yield? 4 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I will. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Tully, can 6 you tell me whether or not -- or excuse me. 7 Tell me briefly what the bill does, would you, 8 sir? 9 SENATOR TULLY: The bill deals 10 with handicapped parking, Mr. President, and 11 provides that in the case of a third or 12 subsequent violation of the handicapped parking 13 spaces that you could have points if determined 14 to be necessary by the Commissioner as well as 15 increased fines for unauthorized parking in 16 those spaces. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Senator 20 Tully, can you tell me whether or not the bill 21 specifically defines the number of points that 22 would be allocated to a conviction for this 23 violation of the V and T Law? 1 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 2 the bill provides that, in the discretion of the 3 Commissioner a point or points. 4 SENATOR KUHL: And Senator Tully, 5 is it possible that a person could have his 6 license suspended or revoked as a result of this 7 non-moving violation? 8 SENATOR TULLY: Yes. The answer 9 simplistically is yes, if there were other 10 points. 11 SENATOR KUHL: And one other 12 question, Senator Tully. Are you aware of any 13 violation of the Vehicle and Traffic Law which 14 is a non-moving violation which would 15 potentially subject a person who is convicted to 16 suspension or revocation of their license? 17 SENATOR TULLY: No, I'm not. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 22 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 23 shall have become a law. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 2, 5 Senators Kuhl and Present recorded in the 6 negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 8 bill is passed. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we go back 13 to the controversial calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Controversial, the Secretary will read the bills 16 that have been on the calendar. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 81, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 1414, 19 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 82, by Senator Halperin, Senate Bill Number 32, 9 an act to amend the Executive Law. 10 SENATOR HALPERIN: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 92, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 565, 15 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 93, by Senator Daly. 6 SENATOR DALY: Lay aside for the 7 day, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 9 aside for the day. 10 Senator Present, that concludes 11 the calendar. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 on behalf of Senator Levy, I'd like to call an 14 immediate Conference of the Majority in Room 15 332. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Majority. O.K. There will be an immediate 18 conference of the Majority in Room 332. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: There being no 23 further business, I move we adjourn until 1 tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow at 3:00 4 p.m. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 6 President. Could I have unanimous consent to be 7 recorded in the negative on Calendar 81, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We 9 adjourned. Before we adjourn formally, Senator 10 Leichter will be in the negative on Calendar 11 what? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: 81. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 81. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I also. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Montgomery also. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I ask 18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 19 on Calendar 81. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Montgomery in the negative on Calendar 81. 22 Before I adjourn, is there anybody else? 23 The Senate stands adjourned. 1 (Whereupon at 5:07 p.m., the 2 Senate adjourned.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10