Wednesday, March 24, 1993

1302 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 24, 1993 11 12:21 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 1303 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 3 will come to order. Senators will find their 4 seats. If you will please rise with me for the 5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 We expect a Rabbi to come by and 7 give us the invocation. We'll be holding for 8 that. He's meeting with the Governor at the 9 moment, but the Secretary will -- so we may 10 interrupt and do a prayer in mid-stream here. 11 The Secretary will begin by 12 reading the Journal. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Tuesday, March 23rd. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment -- just a moment. 16 Senator Mega, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR MEGA: I would just 18 indicate that I'm very pleased to see two 19 Senators on the other side who are present for 20 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, and I just 21 want to comment on that because of the comments 22 that Senator Gold had made recently in 23 connection with pledging allegiance to the 1304 1 flag. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Your 4 comments are duly noted. 5 Secretary will begin by reading 6 the Journal. 7 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 8 Tuesday, March 23rd. The Senate met pursuant to 9 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 10 designation of the Temporary President. The 11 Journal of Monday, March 22nd, was read and 12 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 14 no objection, the Journal will stand as - 15 approved as read. 16 The order of business: The 17 presentation of petitions. 18 Messages from the Assembly. 19 Messages from the Governor. 20 Reports of standing committees. 21 Communications and reports from 22 state officers. 23 We have a substitution. The 1305 1 Secretary will read that. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 13, 3 Senator Velella moves to discharge the Committee 4 on Cities from Assembly Bill Number 4523 and 5 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 6 292. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Substitution ordered. 9 THE SECRETARY: Also on page 13, 10 Senator Padavan moves to discharge the Committee 11 on Cities from Assembly Bill Number 5733 and 12 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 13 293. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. 16 Any motions on the floor? We may 17 be doing a resolution later, but Senator 18 Present, what's your pleasure? 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take up 20 the non-controversial calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Non-controversial. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 23, 1306 1 Calendar Number 216, by Senator Lack, Senate 2 Bill Number 1640, an act to amend the Labor Law, 3 in relation to enforcement of safety and health 4 standards. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays one 13 -- excuse me, in relation to Calendar Number 14 216, Senators Cook and Kuhl are recorded in the 15 negative. Ayes 35, nays 2. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 217, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 1642, 20 Workers' Compensation Law, in relation to fee 21 schedules. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 1307 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 219, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2547, 11 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 12 safety and health standards for public 13 employees. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 22 one, Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 1308 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 221, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 7 that bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 222, by Senator Larkin. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 223, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano, 15 Assembly Bill Number 4921, providing for the 16 date of certification of nominations in 1993. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1309 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 224, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 6 3503, amends Chapter 79 of the Laws of 1992, 7 amending the Election Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35, nays 3, 16 Senators Kuhl, Pataki and Spano recorded in the 17 negative, also Senator Saland in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Also 19 I'm in the negative. The bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 225, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 22 1398, relating to providing for extended school 23 days for a district facing unusual 1310 1 circumstances. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 226, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 1800, 14 legalize, certify, and confirm the acts of the 15 Hoosick Falls Central School District. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 17 a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 18 You can read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1311 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 227, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 6 1804, authorize payment of transportation aid to 7 the Friendship -- Friendship Central School 8 District. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 10 a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 11 You can read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 228, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 1983, 22 Education Law and the Transportation Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 1312 1 please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 229, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 6 2464, authorize the Fort Ann Central School 7 District to finance the accumulated deficit. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 230, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 2974. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1313 1 233, by Senator Johnson. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Star the bill. 3 Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Did you 5 want to lay it aside? 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, lay it 7 aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 234, by Senator Marino. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 235, by - 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 239, by Senator - 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 1314 1 aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 240, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 2627, 4 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 5 authorized disposition in certain felony cases. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43, nays 14 two, Senators DeFrancisco and Saland recorded in 15 the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 DeFrancisco. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I have 21 the opportunity to explain my no vote? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 23 Senator DeFrancisco to explain his vote. 1315 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Normally, I 2 feel that the judge should have the greatest 3 discretion possible in order to issue an 4 appropriate sentence or to impose an appropriate 5 sentence. In this case, presently, the law says 6 that 60 days and probation is an appropriate 7 split sentence. This would give the judge 8 discretion of one year plus probation and that 9 gives the judge more discretion. 10 The problem, however, is that if 11 you give the judge that flexibility, there's 12 going to be a substantial cost passed on to the 13 localities, and the substantial cost is going to 14 be borne by the local corrections officials 15 because there will be more sentences diverted 16 from the state prisons down to the local 17 prisons, and I think there's going to be a 18 substantial impact on the cost to local 19 governments, and that's the reason that I'm 20 voting no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Sears, you're in the 1316 1 negative; yeah. 2 Senator Present, that's the first 3 time through. Do you wish to go to 4 controversial? 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's go to 6 controversial. Mr. President, I think you have 7 a bill on the controversial calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 9 I'm going to - 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator Kuhl 11 will take over for you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Kuhl is in charge here. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 24, 15 Calendar Number 221, by Senator Farley, an act 16 to amend the Election Law and the State Finance 17 Law, requiring proposition authorizing the 18 creation of a state debt. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 21 Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Perhaps 23 Senator Farley would agree to hold this just 1317 1 temporarily. We expect some amendments. 2 They're being prepared for the very, very 3 distinguished ranking member of the Finance 4 Committee, and I think we'll be able to come 5 back to it today, but perhaps in an effort to 6 move the calendar along, because we're also 7 anxious to move it along, even though we started 8 a little late because of the absence of one of 9 our colleagues from Staten Island, maybe we 10 could go on to the next bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: You do expect 14 Senator Halperin to be along shortly? 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 16 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll lay it 17 aside temporarily. 18 SENATOR GOLD: That's what I'm 19 told. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside temporarily. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 222, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 1318 1 2233-A, Election Law, in relation to the hours 2 for voting. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. Lay 4 aside. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 8 laid aside temporarily. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 228, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 1983, 11 Education Law and the Transportation Law, in 12 relation to authorizing the use of drug-free 13 zone signs by school districts. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Pataki. 17 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes, this bill 18 merely allows school districts to post such 19 signs. It provides that the Department of 20 Transportation is to design and provide signs so 21 that they can be placed on the grounds by the 22 school district. 23 We passed legislation some time 1319 1 ago creating the tougher criminal penalties for 2 drug-free zones around schools, and this just 3 authorizes the placement of those signs. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 5 section. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 7 yield to a question? 8 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, my notes 10 indicate that in 1991 there was a support memo 11 from the Medical Society of the state of New 12 York. Have they filed anything this year on the 13 bill, as far as you know? 14 SENATOR PATAKI: I don't see any 15 memo. I don't know why they would be involved, 16 but we do have oral support from the Big Five 17 school district boards of education in the state 18 of New York. 19 SENATOR GOLD: You have five 20 supporting memos? 21 SENATOR PATAKI: We have oral 22 support; I don't have memos. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Just so you 1320 1 understand, the Medical Society were in 2 support. They were not in opposition. 3 SENATOR PATAKI: I don't know. 4 They didn't - 5 SENATOR GOLD: And this bill 6 passed in 1992? 7 SENATOR PATAKI: 1992, passed 8 unanimously. 9 SENATOR GOLD: It passed 1992. 10 Whose bill was it? 11 SENATOR PATAKI: Senator 12 Goodhue's. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Great lady! Last 14 section. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 16 last section. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator - 18 Would Senator Pataki yield, please? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Pataki yield? He does. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 22 me tell you what bothers me about this bill and 23 maybe you can respond to it. 1321 1 I understand we don't want drugs 2 to be used around schools, least of all around 3 schools, but we don't want drugs to be used 4 anywhere. I'm sort of bothered; you put signs 5 up around schools which say "drug-free zones" 6 which sort of carries the implication that other 7 areas are -- are permissible, that there's a 8 permissible use of drugs there or that they are 9 not drug-free zones. 10 SENATOR PATAKI: Well, Senator 11 Leichter, I believe you were in the Senate when 12 this body passed this legislation which created 13 tougher criminal penalties, raised the level of 14 penalty for sale of drugs in these drug-free 15 zones, and that bill called for the creation of 16 these drug-free zones within a thousand feet of 17 a school ground. So what this is doing is 18 simply authorizing districts to put up signs in 19 compliance with the legislation, which -- which 20 is now statute, that this body previously 21 passed. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. -- Mr. 23 President. 1322 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 2 Senator Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 4 Pataki would yield to another question. 5 SENATOR PATAKI: Sure. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Says he 7 does. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 9 don't think that really answers my concern 10 because, if this bill provided that you could 11 put up signs that said the sale of drugs here 12 carries a stiffer penalty that, I think, would 13 be consistent or in accordance with that bill 14 that we passed that I voted for. 15 SENATOR PATAKI: M-m h-m-m. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: But you're 17 saying drug-free zone; you're right it's a drug 18 free zone, but a hundred yards away that's a 19 drug-free zone too. In front of the Capitol is 20 a drug-free zone. In front of a gas station is 21 a drug-free zone. Our whole society is meant to 22 be a drug-free zone. Now, unfortunately, it's 23 not. Do we sort of carry the implication, Look 1323 1 we've given up this fight, but at least we're 2 going to try to preserve around this school a 3 drug-free zone? I'm really bothered by that. 4 SENATOR PATAKI: Senator, let me 5 say I can understand the perception that some 6 might have given up the fight because I see 7 where the drug arrests for low level dealers in 8 New York City under the present mayor are way 9 down, so that some might get that misconception 10 that the war on drugs is targeted to certain 11 areas. 12 But that is not the intent of 13 this area -- of this legislation. This 14 legislation is simply aimed at pointing out the 15 importance we apply to school grounds as a - 16 what should be a sanctuary for the young people 17 of this state and if the Senator wants to 18 propose legislation authorizing signs to be 19 placed in front of service stations or the 20 Capitol, I'm sure you could do that, and we'd be 21 pleased to take a look at it. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 23 let me just ask you one final question. Why 1324 1 don't you provide -- and I don't know whether 2 it's even necessary, but maybe it is necessary 3 under the law, because I guess we're dealing 4 with highways, put a sign saying the sale of 5 drugs around this school carries additional 6 penalties. 7 It would seem to me that would 8 make sense - 9 SENATOR PATAKI: Senator, this 10 legislation does not say that that is precluded, 11 and I would hope that the schools working with 12 the Department of Transportation could reach an 13 agreement on design that perhaps included that 14 language. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Galiber. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would 18 you yield for a question? 19 SENATOR PATAKI: Certainly, 20 Senator. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: I guess when 22 you mentioned the mayor of the city of New York 23 and those drug crimes, I don't think there's any 1325 1 relevancy, very frankly, to the piece of 2 legislation that you have here. 3 You know my concern about drugs. 4 I have a different way of solving it. I can't 5 convince enough folks to deal with the traffick 6 ing of it, but I think that what occurs here 7 that if we pass a piece of legislation that 8 says, if you guys -- you come into this area and 9 sell drugs up in Putnam Valley where you are, 10 where my granddaughter is, we're going to give 11 you stiffer penalties. 12 I guess what troubles us, and I 13 don't care about a couple extra signs, but are 14 we putting the signs up to warn the people whom 15 we want to catch and put in jail that, you know, 16 "you're gettin' pretty close; you better back 17 up." 18 What is the purpose of the sign 19 outside of -- because we're already alerted that 20 there should be free zones and the penalties are 21 stiff. I just want to know -- I guess I'm 22 really saying in a different way outside of my 23 sensitivity about the mayor of the city of New 1326 1 York? 2 SENATOR PATAKI: The purpose is 3 very simple. Our schools should be sanctuaries 4 where people can go without fear of violence, 5 without fear of drugs with one goal in mind and 6 that is to get the best possible education to 7 prepare them for the future, and what we are 8 saying by this legislation is that you are now 9 entering the boundaries of what should be that 10 sanctuary, and we are giving you notice that 11 while, yes, we are opposed to drug use and yes, 12 we will fight drug use in front of service 13 stations, anywhere in this state, that we are 14 making a special point that you are now within 15 the boundaries of something that we consider, as 16 we consider most of the state, to be sacred but 17 this a little bit more so because of the 18 importance of our youth. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm going to 20 vote for it. 21 SENATOR PATAKI: I assumed that 22 you were, Senator. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1327 1 Waldon. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 Senator Pataki, would you yield 5 for a question or two? 6 SENATOR PATAKI: Certainly. 7 SENATOR WALDON: We've not 8 discussed this issue, but I have to assume that 9 you view the world similarly to I, in terms of 10 preventing our children from being exposed to 11 drugs. 12 In that regard, it seems to me 13 the best course of action for this country and 14 this state naturally to take is to educate the 15 children. Is there a salutary effect of your 16 bill which would also not put the children on 17 notice but be, if not a subliminal message, a 18 direct message that drugs are not something that 19 you should be using because, after all, you're 20 entering an area which says "drug-free zone" but 21 there are other messages to that sign; is that 22 part and parcel of what you're doing? 23 SENATOR PATAKI: I think anything 1328 1 we can do to reinforce in the minds of our young 2 people, and education being a critical tool in 3 the war against drugs, that drug use is wrong 4 and that we are going to do everything in this 5 state to fight it, is appropriate and, yes, I 6 believe that is an educational component from 7 seeing this reminder when you approach a school 8 ground. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Would that also 10 affect the parents who come to pick up their 11 children or bring their children to and from 12 school? 13 SENATOR PATAKI: Certainly. 14 SENATOR WALDON: As well as the 15 teachers? 16 SENATOR PATAKI: Certainly. 17 SENATOR WALDON: As well as the 18 bad guys? 19 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes, certainly. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 SENATOR PATAKI: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 1329 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 We're going to -- Senator 11 Present, with your permission, we will interrupt 12 for the Rabbi. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's do that 14 now. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 16 you. 17 My colleagues, we're deeply 18 honored to have with us today, Rabbi Shmuel M. 19 Butman, Director of the Lubavitch Youth 20 Organization of Brooklyn, New York, who is going 21 to give us an invocation. 22 Rabbi Butman. 23 RABBI BUTMAN: For the sake of 1330 1 the record, I was here at 10:30. 2 Dear God, with Your bountiful 3 mercy, on the 11th day of Nissan, 5753, 4 corresponding to April 2nd, 1993, we will be 5 celebrating the 91st birthday of the revered 6 leader of world Jewry, Rabbi Menachem M. 7 Schneerson, the Lubavitcher Rebbe Shlita. The 8 Rebbe has, with Your divine help, Almighty God, 9 enriched the moral, educational, and ethical 10 lives of millions of people through all walks of 11 life throughout the world, and has made this 12 world a better place to live in. It is indeed 13 befitting that this legislative body has 14 proclaimed 91 days of education in the state of 15 New York in honor of the Rebbe's 91st birthday. 16 During the last two years, the 17 Rebbe has constantly proclaimed that the time of 18 our redemption is here and Moshiach, the 19 Messiah, is on His way. The Rebbe calls upon 20 all of mankind to prepare themselves for the 21 great day of redemption, for the personal 22 commitment to increase in charity and good 23 deeds. 1331 1 Over the years, the Rebbe has 2 inspired us with his leadership, his scholarship 3 and prophecies time and time again. Now the 4 Rebbe is telling us as a prophecy, the Moshiach, 5 the Messiah, is on the way. Let us heed the 6 Rebbe's call and let us all prepare for our own 7 benefit for that greatest of days, the ultimate 8 purpose of God's creation. 9 The Rebbe has called this year, 10 5753 in the Jewish calendar, as the year of 11 great wonders. The Rebbe says that the reason 12 we have seen so many miracles this past year and 13 are constantly seeing miracles in our daily 14 lives is due to the fact that You, Almighty God, 15 are preparing the world for the miracle of 16 miracles, the final redemption. 17 We ask You, dear God, to give us 18 the strength and the -- the strength to 19 accelerate that process and the inspiration to 20 do an extra good deed each day in order to speed 21 up the coming of the Messiah. In this spirit, 22 dear God, I would like to take this opportunity 23 to put a dollar bill, on which the words "In God 1332 1 we trust" are imprinted, into this fisca, into 2 this charity box. This fisca, this charity box, 3 reminds us that we all have an obligation not 4 only to ourselves and to our families but also 5 indeed to our neighbors and society in general, 6 the world over, regardless of race, religion, 7 color or creed. 8 Help us, dear God, to bring this 9 message of charity and of the final redemption 10 to all the people of the state of New York and 11 to all the people in these great United States 12 and to all the people of this world. Almighty 13 God, in your infinite wisdom, you have 14 established the members of this Legislature as 15 the custodians of honesty, decency, justice and 16 peace for all people of the state of New York 17 and through them for all the people of the 18 United States and through the United States, the 19 moral superpower of the world, to all the people 20 of this planet. 21 We pray, dear God, that you 22 continue to bestow your bounty upon all the 23 members of this great body. May they merit, 1333 1 dear God, to have a year of great wonders in 2 their communal, national and international 3 endeavors, as well as in their private lives. 4 And let us all say amen. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Rabbi, 7 I'm going to ask that you stay here, and I'll 8 recognize Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 10 would request our good friend, Mr. Cornell, if 11 he would read the resolution in its entirety and 12 then I'd like to speak to it briefly, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 14 you. The Secretary will read the resolution, 15 Senator Marchi's resolution, in its entirety. 16 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 17 Resolution Number 1804, by Senator Marchi, 18 proclaiming the period from April 2nd, 1993 19 corresponding to the 11th of Nissan 5753, the 20 Rebbe's 91st birthday, to July 1st, 1993, 21 corresponding to the 12th of Tammuz, as New York 22 State 91 Days of Education, as a special tribute 23 to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. 1334 1 Schneerson, Shlita. 2 WHEREAS, world Jewry is now 3 celebrating the 91st birthday of its revered 4 leader, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, the 5 Lubavitcher Rebbe Shlita; 6 The Lubavitcher Rebbe has, over 7 his 43 years of dedicated leadership, 8 established over 1300 Lubavitcher centers, 9 helping people of all walks of life from 10 Australia to Africa, from Holland to Argentina, 11 from Moscow to Kiev; 12 Rabbi Schneerson's educational 13 activities throughout the globe have enriched 14 and strengthened the religious, educational, 15 cultural, moral and ethical fiber of all 16 citizens of the world; 17 The Rebbe has proclaimed that the 18 time of our redemption has arrived and Moshiach 19 is on his way; 20 The Lubavitcher Rebbe has called 21 upon all citizens of the world to prepare for 22 the Great Redemption with a personal commitment 23 to increase in charity and good deeds; 1335 1 The entire world is now engaged 2 in prayers for the speedy and complete recovery 3 of the Rebbe with an outpouring of love and 4 affection from millions of followers, admirers 5 and beneficiaries from all parts of the globe; 6 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 7 that this legislative body pause in its 8 deliberations to proclaim the period from April 9 2nd, 1993, corresponding to the 11th of Nissan, 10 5753, the Rebbe's 91st birthday, to July 1st, 11 1993, corresponding to the 12th of Tammuz, as 12 "New York State 91 Days of Education," as a 13 special tribute to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi 14 Menachem M. Schneerson, Shlita; and 15 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a 16 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 17 transmitted to Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson. 18 Together with our best and sincerest wishes for 19 a complete and speedy recovery, and for great 20 success in all of his endeavors. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Marchi. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 1336 1 you will notice from the reading of the 2 resolution and from the inspiring prayer of 3 Rabbi Butman that we are collectively here 4 representing many, many spiritual convictions, 5 various convictions, but there is a common 6 patrimony that we all enjoy and gives us reason 7 to celebrate this event for the importance that 8 it has, the importance that it has imparted to 9 intellectual, spiritual, indeed those redemptive 10 facets and aspects of human existence that have 11 given civilization, in its highest and best 12 forms, a sense and meaning that is relevant to 13 the human condition. 14 I had the pleasure of meeting the 15 Lubavitcher some 25 years ago, and I spent over 16 half an hour in private conversation with him 17 and whatever conceptions you might have, you're 18 not -- you're not dealing with a person with 19 just one aspect, you're dealing with somebody 20 and you're talking to someone urbane, who has a 21 cultural and educational background that defies 22 description, that embraces so many different 23 disciplines and, at the same time, represents 1337 1 the force that has jealously guarded the rich 2 patrimony that he represents, and this -- this 3 is a very meaningful experience. Those of you 4 who have read history, have read Tacitus, will 5 tell you how the lions in the arena feasted on 6 Christians. 7 If they read Tacitus, they would 8 have found out that it had a broader 9 application, and it is explained by the fact 10 that all of us here, regardless of our religious 11 or spiritual adhesion, are all spiritually 12 Semites. And what is this important distinction 13 which separates it from all the other spiritual 14 experiences? It's simply this, Mr. President: 15 Because it undergirds even our own secular 16 concept of a fair and just society, it is the 17 concept that man -- and I mean this in a generic 18 sense -- man has a spiritual, and enjoys a 19 spiritual autonomy that no one can trespass 20 upon. 21 What a better affirmation of our 22 nature as creatures of God than this notion and 23 this conviction and fact -- underlying fact and 1338 1 reality of mankind that we are spiritually 2 autonomous. The Romans were not intolerant. 3 They said, Bring your God to the Pantheon, and 4 it will be -- he will be worshipped or she will 5 be worshipped, or it will be worshipped along 6 with everybody else, and the answer was no, no, 7 because there is -- there is a different 8 conception here that no one can trespass upon, 9 and this is -- they -- the Lubavitcher 10 represents a zealous guardian of that concept of 11 the spiritual autonomy of man throughout the 12 hundreds of centuries that have elapsed. 13 We had Aristotelian philosophy 14 that gives us so many answers, but it never 15 became meaningful until Ben -- Maimonides gave 16 it and brought it into relevance a thousand 17 years later and it became also the foundation 18 which scholastic philosophy, it was the 19 precursor and the formulator of scholastic 20 philosophy as it was defined by Maimonides and 21 this has -- this has been zealously served and 22 the custody of that patrimony has gone down 23 through the centuries and today it is alive and 1339 1 well and it benefits all of mankind so that it 2 is a -- it is a really a festive event that we 3 are observing in which all people of good will 4 can join and, if they accept -- if they accept 5 as we should, the basic message here and 6 appreciate the spiritual impact that it has not 7 only in our religious formulation but also in 8 our human understanding, we will have done much 9 to advance causes that are right and just. 10 Mr. President, I would like to 11 have you, in the name of all of us to greet, 12 along with Rabbi Butman, who is an old and 13 cherished friend and a welcome friend, and it's 14 wonderful to have him back, also Rabbi David 15 Raskin, who is chairman of the Lubavitch Youth 16 Organization, Rabbi Joseph Spellman, chairman of 17 the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, and 18 Rabbi Shimon Hecht, chairman of the National 19 Committee for the Furtherhood of Jewish 20 Organizations, and all those that are with 21 them. 22 So I -- so I ask you in your own 23 inimitable way if you will extend a greeting in 1340 1 behalf of all of us to these wonderful people 2 and, prayerfully, I hope they will also add - 3 they will also include in their prayers that we 4 continue to meet for many, many years to come 5 and also to convey to the Rebbe our esteem and 6 our prayers for his recovery. 7 Thank you. 8 RABBI BUTMAN: Thank you very, 9 very much. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 11 you. Let me first adopt the resolution. 12 All in favor of the resolution, 13 say aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Those opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The resolution is unanimously 18 adopted. 19 On behalf of the New York State 20 Senate, Rabbi, let me say how honored we are to 21 have you with us here today and we wish you well 22 in your work and, incidentally, the Rabbi was 23 here at 10:30, unlike most of the Senators, and 1341 1 we appreciate your punctuality but more than 2 that we appreciate the good work that you do for 3 our humankind, and to your group that are here, 4 the other rabbis, our best wishes, come back and 5 visit us again. 6 RABBI BUTMAN: Thank you very, 7 very much. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 9 you. 10 (Applause) 11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Cook. 14 SENATOR COOK: Would you please 15 recognize Senator Goodman. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Goodman. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 19 two housekeeping items. May I please be 20 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 176 21 and 233? I would like the record to show that 22 had I been in the chamber at the time these were 23 called, that I would have so voted, and that my 1342 1 inability to be here was based on the fact that 2 I was conducting an investigative hearing into 3 the World Trade Center explosion in New York 4 City. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 6 The record will so indicate, Senator Goodman. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, 8 Senator. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Incidentally, 233, Senator Goodman, has not been 11 passed as yet. And 176 was the other day and 12 the record will so indicate. 13 SENATOR COOK: Could we continue 14 with the calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Secretary will continue with the controversial 17 calendar. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 25 of 19 today's calendar, Calendar Number 230, by 20 Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 2974, Public 21 Health Law, in relation to the definition of 22 obstetric practitioner. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 1343 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 233, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 13 1843, an act to amend the Penal Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Explanation. 19 Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 21 Section 400 of the Penal Law provides for 22 issuing two types of pistol licenses, either 23 premises license or a carry license. There's no 1344 1 provision in this law for any other variety of 2 license such as target or hunting, et cetera. 3 Nevertheless authorities in 55 jurisdictions in 4 this state are issuing licenses with such 5 restrictions without the authority to do so. In 6 fact, when these type of licenses result in some 7 sort of a court challenge, for example, a man in 8 New York City several years ago had a license 9 that was marked "target", he was in possession 10 of that pistol. He was charged with a crime of 11 -- he was charged with a crime of carrying a 12 target pistol, criminal possession of a target 13 pistol, because he didn't -- he wasn't going to 14 the range apparently, and he didn't have it in a 15 box. 16 The law doesn't provide for those 17 type of restrictions and he was found innocent. 18 We're trying to clear up this problem with the 19 law constantly putting requirements on licenses 20 which are not provided for by law, abusing and 21 usurping the laws of the state of New York 22 without any particular benefit to anyone. 23 So this just clarifies it by 1345 1 saying the law is plain enough. You issue one 2 or another type of pistol license, and it 3 prohibits them from putting any further 4 restrictions on those licenses. Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Senator, I don't know who arose first. 7 SENATOR GOLD: I yield to Senator 8 Stavisky. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Gold yields to you, Senator Stavisky. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 12 the right of a locality to determine the terms 13 and conditions of services that affect that 14 locality is respected by many members of this 15 Legislature. We regularly hear appeals, Give us 16 this bill, it affects only our district, and we 17 need it, and I have respected those requests and 18 others in this chamber have been mindful of 19 those considerations. 20 Now, there may be parts of the 21 state of New York where the possession of a 22 firearm is not a major problem and, as a matter 23 of fact, it may be a way of life for many of the 1346 1 residents. But there are other parts of the 2 state where firearms are used as instruments of 3 death affecting not game but people, and these 4 deaths occur on a daily and weekly and monthly 5 basis, and so differing licensing authorities 6 are in existence and if, in one part of the 7 state, you wish to give the licensing authority 8 to a local justice who is relatively free and 9 not demanding in issuing such licenses, so be 10 it. 11 I respect the societal mores of 12 an area which maintains we do not have a major 13 problem with firearms possession and, therefore, 14 we will issue firearms licenses to virtually 15 anyone who applies, who does not give us a good 16 reason not to issue. 17 On the other hand, in highly 18 congested areas, where crime is rampant and 19 where deaths from firearms occur much too 20 frequently, we do not wish to have the local 21 licensing authority in a place such as the city 22 of New York which has given the jurisdiction to 23 the police commissioner. 1347 1 We don't want to have our police 2 commissioner's judgment superseded by a 3 licensing authority who has given a license to 4 someone in another part of the state and may not 5 be mindful of the problems that a large city may 6 have with regard to firearms fatalities. 7 We do in this nation, lose more 8 people each year through firearms fatalities 9 than we have, unfortunately, lost in virtually 10 all of the wars in which the United States has 11 engaged combined. 12 We have confidence in New York 13 City in the wisdom of our police commissioners. 14 They have generally been an exemplary group of 15 people, and our police officers are exemplary 16 and I do not wish to second guess our police 17 commissioner or our police department in the 18 question of who shall be issued a firearm in New 19 York City and under what circumstances should 20 firearms be brought into our jurisdiction. 21 Respect our right, our right of local self 22 determination, and do not supersede our 23 appointing authorities' wisdom and experience in 1348 1 our community with the experience of someone 2 else who may not be subject to a daily 3 understanding of the deaths that occur through 4 firearms possession and use. 5 Therefore, I wish to respect the 6 licensing authority that any other Senator has 7 in his or her jurisdiction with the 8 understanding that you will respect the judgment 9 of the licensing authority in the area where I 10 live, where I've raised a family and where I 11 have a commitment to stay. I will trust our 12 police commissioner more than I would delegate 13 that trust to an outside authority whom I do not 14 know. 15 If you want to give the authority 16 to the state superintendent of police and make a 17 unified authority without different standards, 18 let's talk about such a bill, but that is not 19 the bill before us. A local justice may issue a 20 firearms license, and I think that I do not wish 21 to have that decision supersede the decision of 22 the police commissioner of the city of New 23 York. We have a very good police commissioner. 1349 1 We've previously had very good police 2 commissioners, and let's leave it that way and 3 not have a different set of standards imposed on 4 us over the objection, the reasonable objection, 5 the stated objection, of the police commissioner 6 of the city of New York and, for that reason and 7 others that I could cite, I think this bill 8 should be held for further consideration and not 9 passed by this chamber. 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: If I may. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Johnson. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'd like to 14 respond that I appreciate the sentiments of 15 Senator Stavisky, but this bill doesn't require 16 anyone to issue a license to anyone. There's a 17 very involved lengthy procedure, background 18 checks, et cetera, for issuing a permit. It 19 does not say that you have to issue a carry 20 permit to anyone. It doesn't say that upstate 21 licenses are valid in New York City whether 22 they're issued by a judge or by a police 23 authority. It doesn't make them valid in New 1350 1 York City. So this really has no bearing on New 2 York City except to say that you must issue 3 either a license to carry or premises license in 4 accordance with the statute and not devise other 5 varieties of licenses not provided for in the 6 statute, and I would like to assure Senator 7 Stavisky that statistics are almost non-exist 8 ent in regard to crimes committed by licensed 9 pistol holders. So they're not really the 10 source of any crime. In fact, more than likely 11 they are the means by which some crimes are 12 being prevented or some criminals apprehended. 13 So, Senator, it's a good bill. 14 It doesn't do anything negative to your 15 constituents. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: May I ask if 17 the sponsor would yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Johnson, would you yield? 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 22 Stavisky. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, Senator. 1351 1 What are the inconveniences or burdens that the 2 existing procedure imposes on someone from your 3 district coming into the city of New York, would 4 you explain that? 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm not - 6 anybody from my area coming into New York City 7 can go any time he likes and can leave any time 8 he'd like, and there's no restrictions on his 9 traveling to New York City but he can not take a 10 pistol with him unless he has a New York City 11 license. 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: O.K. So there 13 may be a different background check or a higher 14 standard that may be imposed in New York City 15 and an individual traveling in your -- in your 16 county may have passed a set of requirements by 17 the local issuing authority, I assume a justice, 18 is that correct? Is it a justice? 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: In our -- in 20 Suffolk County, where I reside, Senator, it goes 21 through the police department, takes you four to 22 six months to get a license. Has nothing to do 23 with my county, has nothing to do with your 1352 1 city. It only has to do with the variety of 2 licenses which have been created outside of the 3 authority of the statute. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Is there any 5 restriction on carrying a firearm which is in 6 its case and unloaded into the city of New York 7 under the existing law? A firearm that is in its 8 case and unloaded? 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's my 10 understanding that someone from my area can have 11 an unloaded firearm in a case in the trunk and 12 travel through New York City, but he can not 13 stop along the way. But that has really nothing 14 to do with this bill, Senator. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: O.K. No 16 further questions. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 20 Senator Johnson yield to one question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Johnson, are you still yielding? 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 1353 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I do 2 understand the bill, and it really is a -- I 3 hate to use the word "simple" but it's a simple 4 bill. The statute says you can have a carry, 5 you can have a premises and there have been 6 licenses, sub-licenses, if I could use that 7 expression, that have developed and that's what 8 your bill wants to eliminate; is that correct? 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's correct. 10 SENATOR GOLD: All right. But, 11 Senator, I want to ask you a question. As I 12 understand the law, and there are cases on this 13 which give pretty broad discretion to the 14 licensing authority, don't you think people are 15 better off if the licensing authority can say, 16 Look, I ordinarily wouldn't give you a permit 17 and you can't force me to give you a permit, but 18 I'm willing to give you a permit if you're 19 willing to accept some conditions? 20 Don't you think that the 21 individual is better off, the individual who 22 wants to get the weapon and the license, to be 23 able to get it under those conditions instead of 1354 1 in your bill, if your bill were to pass and if 2 the courts and the licensing officers followed 3 it to the letter of the law, which I would hope 4 they do, isn't it a fact that you would probably 5 have people who couldn't get licenses, period, 6 because the judges would say, "I would have 7 given it to you, but it's either yes or no and I 8 say no?" 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: I can't 10 speculate on that, Senator. I think they'd be 11 better off if they -- if they followed the law 12 in all jurisdictions, without devising varieties 13 of licenses conditioned upon certain uses of the 14 weapon. 15 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Mr. 16 President, on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. First of 20 all, the city of New York has filed a memorandum 21 in opposition and last year Senators Connor and 22 Gonzalez and Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, 23 Ohrenstein, Onorato, Smith, Solomon and 1355 1 Weinstein voted in the negative. 2 I'm going to vote in the negative 3 because I think that the passage of this bill, 4 in my opinion, will stop people who might 5 otherwise be able to get licenses from getting 6 them because I know in some of these 7 jurisdictions that you tell the licensing 8 authority that it's going to be yes or no, 9 Senator Johnson, I think there's going to be a 10 lot more noes than there are yeses, and I think 11 that the way the law has developed right now 12 where a judge or a licensing officer can say, 13 "Well, look, I see some merit to it, I'm going 14 to let you do it for what you say," people wind 15 up being serviced properly by these authorities 16 and I think that, while your philosophy, Senator 17 Johnson, makes sense, I -- I understand what 18 you're trying to say, I think the result of what 19 you're trying to do would be hurting more people 20 who might otherwise be able to get their 21 license. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 1356 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 233 are Senators 8 Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gold, Goodman, 9 Halperin, Leichter, Mendez, Ohrenstein, Onorato, 10 Smith, Solomon, Stavisky, also Senator 11 Masiello. Ayes 42, also Senator Jones. Ayes 12 41, nays 15. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Goodman. 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 17 may I ask please that, due to the absence which 18 I explained a moment ago, that I be recorded - 19 that the record show that had I been here, I 20 would have voted in the negative on Calendar 21 Number 176, Senate Print Number 277, and on 22 Senate Calendar Number 177, Senate Print Number 23 644. 1357 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 2 objection, the record will so show. 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The 6 Secretary will read. Continue the calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 234, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 1891, 9 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 2, 19 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 20 negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 22 is passed. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 1358 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 3 Stavisky. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: For the 5 reasons cited by Senator Goodman, the meeting or 6 the hearing of the Senate Investigations 7 Committee, which took place in New York City on 8 Monday, I should also like to be recorded or 9 have the record reflect the fact that, if I had 10 been in the chamber on 176, I would have voted 11 in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 13 objection, the record will so reflect. 14 Secretary? 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 235, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number - 17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 18 THE SECRETARY: -- 2339, an act 19 to amend the Penal Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Lay it 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 239, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 2552, 1359 1 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to the 2 designation of dog control. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 3, 12 Senators Gold, Leichter and Pataki recorded in 13 the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Cook. 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 18 could we return to Calendar Number 222, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary 20 will read Calendar Number 222. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 2233-A, an act to 23 amend the Election Law, in relation to the hours 1360 1 for voting at primary elections. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Last 3 section. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 6 Explanation requested. Senator Larkin. 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Who? 8 (Senator Connor indicates.) 9 Mr. President, this bill was 10 requested by the counties of Orange and Ulster 11 after a long consideration and evaluation of the 12 number of persons that were voting in primary 13 elections in these respective counties. 14 It's been documented by the Board 15 of Elections and documented by the town clerks 16 that the continuation of the voting from 6:00 in 17 the morning on a primary until 9 o'clock at 18 night was not cost-effective, didn't produce any 19 more voters. This was done a few years back in 20 Orange and Ulster Counties extending it. 21 At the time that it was done, 22 everybody said it was going to be a trial 23 basis. I think the trial is over. We've seen 1361 1 nothing to produce greater number of voters. 2 We're just costing the taxpayers or those 3 individual municipalities, period. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 5 Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 Mr. President, I'm opposed to 9 this bill for several reasons. Senator Larkin 10 rightly points out, I suppose, that perhaps 11 whatever it means, it's not cost-effective given 12 the dollars versus the number of voters, but the 13 fact is in our democracy we don't put a price 14 tag on the right to vote. 15 We ought not circumscribe the 16 opportunity for people to vote by saying it just 17 doesn't pay to keep poll workers here for the 18 couple dozen people who come in at 6:00. 19 Rockland and Orange, distant though they may be, 20 for example, from New York City still have a 21 large number of commuters, people who have to 22 get the 7:05 train or the 7:30 train or the 7:55 23 train and who perhaps in commuting into New York 1362 1 City find it difficult after a long day to 2 commute back and make it to the polls by 9:00. 3 I think that was part of the 4 consideration behind the 6:00 to 9:00 opening. 5 I know it costs money to run elections. In 6 fact, I happen to believe that we in New York 7 State, not just the state but the localities, 8 don't spend enough on the election process or 9 haven't in the past. We now see finally in New 10 York City they're computerized. Monroe County 11 took the lead many years ago, but other counties 12 are way behind. Why? Because there's no 13 constituency for spending money on elections 14 except at election time. 15 You get, the month before the 16 election, the press is full of editorials about 17 why can't the Board of Elections do this and why 18 can't they accommodate every voter and how come 19 they don't have enough workers at the polls. 20 That's because -- and the week after the 21 election, unless there's one where you have 22 these recounts that takes a month, everybody 23 forgets about the Board of Elections. Everybody 1363 1 sort of thinks they have nothing to do until the 2 next election. 3 I've also seen in some 4 jurisdictions where, when the chief executive 5 was up for reelection, suddenly the Board of 6 Elections had extra resources to run a nice 7 competent smooth election, but when he wasn't, 8 they didn't have enough money to man the polls. 9 It is expensive to run elections. 10 It is expensive to accommodate voters, but I 11 think we ought to do it. I think we ought to 12 expand opportunities for people to vote. To say 13 it hasn't produced a significant turn-out, we 14 all see turn-outs fluctuate depending on the 15 interest in a particular race. 16 I don't think we ought to -- that 17 we ought to curtail the -- and let me say, Mr. 18 President, I have heard repeatedly from the New 19 York City Board of Elections. They say, Why do 20 we have to open at 6:00 on primary day and why 21 do we have to open at 6:00 even on general 22 election day? It costs us a lot of money. It's 23 inconvenient. 1364 1 I agree, it costs them money; 2 it's inconvenient, but I say it's worth it to 3 make it as easy as possible for people to get to 4 the polls and exercise their franchise. 5 Therefore, I would urge a "no" vote, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 8 last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the 30th day after it 11 shall have become a law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 222 are Senators 17 Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Halperin, Leichter, 18 Masiello, Mendez, Ohrenstein, Onorato, Smith, 19 Solomon and Stavisky. Ayes 44, nays 12. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 21 is passed. 22 Senator Cook. 23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 1365 1 could we return to Calendar Number 221 and 2 recognize Senator Farley, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 4 Farley, on Calendar Number 221. Secretary will 5 read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 221, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1617, 8 an act to amend the Election Law and the State 9 Finance Law. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 This is a -- this is a bill that 13 has come about as a result of a request from a 14 number of voters, and people, I think, through 15 out the state basically in my district. It 16 amends the Election Law and it requires that 17 when we have a bond issue proposition on the 18 state ballot, that it contain an estimate of the 19 total amount to be repaid. 20 In other words, it's kind of a 21 truth in lending bill, if you will, or a 22 consumer bill that allows for both principal and 23 interest to be listed. At present, only the 1366 1 principal is listed. This also provides that 2 any descriptive documents prepared by the state 3 relating to the bond issue list both principal 4 and interest; in other words, the selling part 5 of it. 6 The bill is intended to improve 7 the information available to the voters when 8 they decide on a bond issue. When people take 9 out a mortgage or buy a house or a loan or buy a 10 car or any expensive item, they understand the 11 amount which they will pay back to include 12 interest and, hence, more than the principal 13 amount of the loan. 14 Now, in fact, the state and 15 federal laws require that lenders prominently 16 display interest rate information in advertising 17 and in loan documents. This would place bond 18 issue propositions in a similar status as 19 consumer borrowing, requiring disclosure of the 20 total expected cost. 21 The bill is designed to reflect 22 administrative reality by providing for an 23 estimate of total cost inasmuch as the actual 1367 1 interest rate for which obligations can be sold 2 can be approximated in advance. 3 Also the bill calls for 4 disclosure of the information printed in the 5 largest type that is practicable, and for the 6 different documents involved recognizing the 7 administrative realities of varying documents on 8 the ballot, and so forth; in other words, that 9 they won't print it where somebody can't see 10 it. 11 Distinguished lawyer, and my 12 colleague, is going to be offering an amendment 13 and I'm very anxious to hear about your 14 amendment, Senator Halperin. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 16 Halperin. 17 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President, 18 before I offer the amendment let me just say 19 that I think the bill is terrific. I thought so 20 around six years ago when I first introduced 21 legislation that contained strikingly similar 22 language to that which is contained in this 23 bill. 1368 1 However, a distinction between 2 the bill that I've been introducing for a number 3 of years which, by the way, has already passed 4 the Assembly this year, with the sponsor being 5 Assemblyman Feldman, is that it does not limit 6 some of these requirements only to propositions 7 which deal with the authorization of the 8 issuance of debt but rather would extend plain 9 language requirements to any proposal that is 10 put before the public on the ballot, would also 11 require that when we pass such legislation, 12 unlike your bill which does not have a similar 13 requirement, that we must have the specific 14 language incorporated within the legislation so 15 that we are the ones who control the language 16 that will eventually appear on the ballot, and 17 the additional benefit of that would be to 18 permit the public to react ahead of time. 19 Rather than just going into the poll and voting 20 against something because they didn't like the 21 language, they would be able to react and play a 22 role in the development of the language through 23 the legislative process as opposed to leaving it 1369 1 up to the Board of Elections to develop 2 language. 3 And it would also apply not only 4 to statewide ballot proposals but also to local 5 ballot proposals, which I think is very well 6 warranted. 7 So my question to you is, is 8 there anything that I've just described that is 9 contained in the bill that I've introduced which 10 is now in the form of an amendment which I 11 haven't quite moved yet that you find 12 objectionable? 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Not necessarily 14 and, incidentally, Senator Halperin, you know I 15 wasn't terribly aware of that, and I apologize 16 for that, and I'd say this right on the floor, 17 I'd be happy to work with you and Assemblyman 18 Feldman on this bill and co-sponsor it with you 19 if you wish. 20 I am concerned about plain 21 language, and I say that guardedly as a lawyer 22 and I know that you as a distinguished one, 23 that's generally speaking, plain language is 1370 1 usually the lawyer's full employment bill 2 because of the problems that we get into with 3 that. 4 I realize that legalese is not 5 the language of the -- of humanity, but it does 6 have its purpose. I am concerned about that. I 7 read your amendment. I don't -- rapidly here. 8 I don't fully understand it. If you're saying 9 that basically you'd like to see plain language 10 or language scrutinized in the ballot 11 propositions, is that what you're saying? 12 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: I'd be happy to 15 work with you on that. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 17 Gold, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I'm just 19 wondering if it might not be a little more 20 useful if we had Senator Halperin offer the 21 amendment and explain it. 22 SENATOR HALPERIN: Not 23 necessarily. I think the most useful thing that 1371 1 would occur is, if Senator Farley and I could 2 work on legislation that would pass both houses 3 given the fact that already, as I stated, this 4 bill has passed the Assembly, contains all of 5 the provisions that is in your bill and then 6 some. 7 Now, I don't know, the reason I'm 8 asking this question to you before I offer the 9 amendment is, I don't know if the "and then 10 some" would create a problem for you. If not - 11 or for the other members of this body. I 12 personally believe that that's the way to go, 13 that plain language, while it may create some 14 additional legal work as relates to language 15 that are in contracts, because the case law 16 that's developed over the years may not relate 17 to that language, that's one thing. Here we're 18 saying that we're taking a proposition that the 19 public has to understand, that right now the 20 Board of Elections are using whatever language 21 they think is right, that's not necessarily free 22 of the types of ambiguities that would result in 23 protracted litigation, and we're already letting 1372 1 them do it; we're just saying let's -- why don't 2 we take that under our umbrella, create the 3 language that we think should be put on the 4 ballot, make it understandable as possible to 5 people, and not simply on debt issues which are 6 very, very important, but also on all 7 propositions which can be extraordinarily 8 important to them. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me say this, 10 Senator Halperin, if it -- I would like to pass 11 this. We're going to end up with two different 12 bills, I understand that, and I pledge to you 13 that we will work with you and Assemblyman 14 Feldman and also Assemblyman Tedisco who has got 15 this over in the other house, and maybe we can 16 put something together that can become law. 17 Would you be agreeable to that? 18 SENATOR HALPERIN: Well, I'll try 19 to move my amendment and see what happens and 20 then we'll work together after that to see how 21 we can get a bill that will pass both houses. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: So 23 Senator Halperin -- Senator Halperin has the 1373 1 floor. 2 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President, 3 I'd like to move the amendment that I offered up 4 earlier today and, for that matter, waive its 5 explanation because I just gave it and ask for a 6 vote on it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: All those 8 in favor of the amendment signify by saying 9 aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The amendment is defeated. 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would Senator 16 Farley yield, please? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: We're on 18 the main bill. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what 20 is the purpose of the main bill; what are you 21 trying to achieve by this bill? 22 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm trying to - 23 and incidentally, I think we're all trying to do 1374 1 this, we all are anxious to do this, to have a 2 little bit of truth in borrowing out there for 3 the general public when they vote on a bond 4 proposition. Incidentally, some of our bond 5 issues have not done very well of late and part 6 of it is because the general public gets a 7 little bit concerned that they do not know how 8 much they were borrowing or getting in. 9 As a matter of fact, in this last 10 bond issue, I can recall all kinds of strange 11 figures coming out there as to how much it was 12 going to cost, many of them exaggerated and many 13 of them inaccurate, and I think that on the 14 ballot, it was how much the principal and 15 interest is going to be, and so forth, the 16 approximate amount, estimated amount, I think it 17 would be a very -- and I know of you as a 18 consumer of the first water, that I would think 19 that you'd be interested in that. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 would Senator Farley yield to another question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Farley, do you yield to a second question? 1375 1 SENATOR FARLEY: I certainly 2 will. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 4 Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is it 6 your position that the public has a right to 7 know this information? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: I think they 9 do. 10 Are you setting me up here? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Had to be 12 said. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll answer that 14 in the affirmative depending on your second 15 question. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: So, Mr. 17 President, if Senator Farley -- I want to assure 18 him this is solely an effort to educate the 19 membership here, Senator, and does not have in 20 any way or intent to make it appear as if your 21 bill or your efforts are other than meritorious, 22 but, Senator, is it fair to say that what you're 23 trying to do with this bill is to inform the 1376 1 public as to how taxpayers' monies are going to 2 be - 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Very perceptive; 4 that's exactly what we're trying to do. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Thank 6 you. 7 Senator -- I'm sorry. Mr. 8 President. Senator, do you feel that that 9 principle applies to other expenditures of 10 public monies, or would you apply that principle 11 only to bond issues? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Now 13 you're being set up. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: I think you're 15 getting a little non-germane here. Depends. I 16 don't want to know how much you've got in your 17 wallet or anything like that today. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I'm 19 talking about public money. I want to assure 20 you I don't have public money in my pocket here 21 today, Senator. I'm talking about expenditures 22 that are authorized by governmental actions, 23 actions of the Legislature, signature of the 1377 1 Governor. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Seriously, 3 Senator Leichter, let me just say that Senator 4 Halperin and I are trying to arrive at the same 5 point with this bill, and I know that both of us 6 will appreciate your support. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 8 again, I - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator, 10 are you asking the Senator again to yield? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Will - 14 Senator Farley, will you yield? 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 17 think when we look at legislation like this, we 18 don't simply look at the words. We try to 19 understand the aim and purpose, and you stated 20 what the principle was, and I'm trying now to 21 see what the dimensions of that principle are. 22 Is that something that we apply only to bond 23 issues, or is that something that applies to 1378 1 other expenditures, other actions involving 2 taxpayers' monies? 3 SENATOR FARLEY: This bill only 4 applies to bond issues. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: That I - 6 Senator, thank you. If you would yield to 7 another question. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: All right. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I see that 10 this bill applies only to bond issues, but my 11 question is whether the principle which you 12 stated, I thought, very eloquently that it was 13 the right of the public to know, the purpose of 14 the bill is to inform taxpayers as to how their 15 monies are being spent, and I'm trying to see 16 whether you would apply that to other 17 expenditures -- for instance, let me give an 18 example, how about the legislative budget, would 19 you feel that the public has a right to know how 20 legislative expenditures are made? 21 SENATOR FARLEY: I think that we 22 all would agree to that but, Senator Leichter, 23 you're making a quantum leap here. We're 1379 1 talking about somebody that must pull a lever on 2 a proposition that is on the ballot. The 3 legislative budget, although you may like it out 4 there, is not on the statewide ballot. 5 This talks about bond issues. 6 All we're trying to do is to put a little light 7 on what the true cost of a bond issue is. It's 8 that simple. Now, we can take that and 9 extrapolate that onto anything that you want, 10 that we should have full disclosure everywhere, 11 and I'm -- I'm not necessarily opposed to that 12 and I understand from your very first question 13 where you might be going, but I'd like to pass 14 this bill. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I - 16 I'm sure you're going to pass this bill, and I'm 17 going to vote for this bill but, Senator, I'm 18 trying to establish here that this principle 19 that underlies your bill equally applies to 20 other governmental expenditures. 21 It applies to the legislative 22 budget; it doesn't just apply if the voters have 23 to actually vote on that specific provision. It 1380 1 applies to the expenditure of government monies 2 which are taxpayers' money, and I just want to 3 point out to you, Senator, that there's a 4 certain double standard here that may be fine to 5 come to the public and say, "I am a taxpayer 6 advocate. This is a consumer measure. Truth in 7 spending. That's what I want to provide for you 8 but, when it comes to the legislative budget, 9 when it comes to my budget, don't ask me to tell 10 you how your money is being spent. That's none 11 of your business. That's my business. I'll 12 decide how your money is being spent and I'm not 13 even going to tell you. You ask how your money 14 is being spent. None of your business. I'll 15 send out how many mailings I want to for certain 16 of my favored members, and I will spend as much 17 money as I want to on it, but don't you come and 18 ask me about that." 19 Senator, I think there's a 20 certain amount of hypocrisy, and you're going to 21 have an opportunity to vote on whether that 22 principle which you stated so eloquently, and I 23 thought beautifully, the right to know, the 1381 1 right to be informed, you're going to have the 2 opportunity to see if you want to apply that 3 principle when your most direct interests are 4 involved as a legislator in the legislative 5 budget. 6 And I have great respect for 7 you. You're my leader in Banks; you're a leader 8 on a lot of issues for me, and I would hope that 9 you and all the other members of the majority 10 would come along with us and just open up that 11 process, apply the same standards to the 12 Legislature that we apply to everybody else and, 13 as I said, we're going to give you that 14 opportunity. 15 We gave you that chance once and 16 -- and you didn't take it, but you're going to 17 have that chance over and over again, and it's 18 not going to be, you know, people say this is 19 political. Well, in a sense everything we do is 20 political, but let me tell you, nothing would 21 please me more, and I think I speak for 22 everybody here in the Minority, if you people 23 took that political issue away from us, if the 1382 1 Majority Leader tomorrow said, "I'm going to 2 itemize the legislative budget; we're going to 3 let everybody know how our money is being spent; 4 everybody is going to know about mailings." 5 There will be great headlines and editorials 6 praising Senator Marino and praising the 7 Republicans, and I'll tell you nobody will 8 applaud harder than I will, and I believe I'll 9 be joined by my colleagues on this side of the 10 aisle. It's time to do it. 11 If your bill makes sense, and I 12 think it makes sense -- it's a good bill; it's a 13 fair bill; it could be made a better bill if you 14 adopted Senator Halperin's proposals -- but 15 let's stop saying these are the rules by which 16 government is going to act, except for the 17 Legislature. We're above the law. We can hide 18 information from you. We shouldn't do this. 19 Apply the principle of this bill to the 20 Legislature, Senator. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 22 Nozzolio. 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 1383 1 President. On the bill. 2 Mr. President, my colleagues, I 3 rise to lend my support to this what I believe 4 is an excellent measure, a measure that was the 5 first measure as the newly chosen chairman of 6 the Senate Elections Committee, I used the 7 opportunity as Chair and the prerogatives of the 8 Chair, to report this bill as the first bill 9 reported out of my committee in that capacity. 10 Senator Farley is to be not only 11 commended for his foresight but also for taking 12 this measure out of what had been the dark ages 13 in terms of allowing citizens in this state to 14 be truly informed about decisions that those 15 citizens are making. 16 Senator Leichter is comparing 17 what I believe is oranges and elephants, or 18 maybe donkeys, in the fact that this measure is 19 one that I hope now with his support he'll 20 convince his Democrat colleagues in the state 21 Assembly who have been blocking this legislation 22 for at least a couple of years, that he will 23 convince them that this is a measure worthy of 1384 1 their support as well, that borrowing, Mr. 2 President, is a concept engaged in in every 3 financial institution in this state, and in 4 every financial institution in this state those 5 who borrow money are given a "truth in 6 borrowing" statement. 7 Senator Farley's bill simply 8 extends this process when those same 9 constituents of our state are asked to borrow 10 money in the form of a bond issue, and that I am 11 pleased, very pleased, to be a sponsor of this 12 legislation along with Senator Farley, and it is 13 the first reform we have pushed for in my tenure 14 on the Senate Elections Committee. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, would the sponsor yield to a 20 question? I promise you they won't lead to a - 21 (Talking over-unintelligible). 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Farley, will you yield for a question? 1385 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 2 (Unintelligible) -- my colleague and my friend 3 at the bar, Senator Leichter, I actually have 4 one on the substantive portion of the bill. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Certainly. I'd 6 be delighted. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, the 8 estimated amortization, as you probably know, 9 the change in the interest rate on a substantial 10 bond issue could significantly affect the cost 11 of the payments over time. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: M-m h-m-m. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who does the 14 estimate of the amortization cost; who is going 15 to make the determination? 16 SENATOR FARLEY: That would be 17 the Comptroller's office, Senator. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would that be 19 done prior to passage of that proposition? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Your bill 22 says it would be done afterwards, or suggests it 23 would be done afterwards. It says on - 1386 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Does it say 2 after? I thought that it said - 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It says on 4 Section 1 of the bill says that such information 5 shall be provided to the state Board of 6 Elections and the Secretary of State by the 7 state Comptroller not later than seven days 8 after passage of the law. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: That would be - 10 that would be after the Legislature passes it, 11 and before it comes up on the ballot. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Here is my 13 concern, Senator - 14 SENATOR FARLEY: O.K. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- and perhaps 16 you can answer this question. How do we avoid a 17 dispute with the Comptroller over what the 18 assumption or the interest rate assumption will 19 be for the amortization cost? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: This is an 21 estimated thing, and I realize the Comptroller 22 would have to put his reputation on the line 23 with that. I mean if he comes up with too low 1387 1 an interest rate -- it's a guesstimate, it's an 2 estimate, but at least it's a good ball park 3 estimate as to the true cost. You know, one of 4 the problems with all of these bond issues, as 5 you're well aware of it, is the extravagant - 6 the opponents of a bond issue will come up with 7 an extravagant cost of the bond issue which is 8 inaccurate, and the proponents understate it and 9 at least if we get one that's on the ballot, 10 they can either dispute it or go after it any 11 way that they want, but it's out there for the 12 general public to make a decision on. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 15 Dollinger, would you please go through the 16 Chair? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. Excuse 18 me, Mr. President. So as I understand it this 19 just -- so I make sure - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 21 Dollinger, are you requesting Senator Farley to 22 yield to one more question? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, one more 1388 1 question, right. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 3 Farley, do you yield? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: Sure. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 7 Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So then as I 9 understand it, then there would be a judgment 10 after the bill is passed and it would refer to 11 the Comptroller for an estimate of the would-be 12 cost, and there would be an estimate of the 13 amortization cost; is that correct? 14 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. On the 16 bill, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 18 Dollinger on the bill. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would just 20 recommend to the sponsor -- I understand the 21 purpose of this; I'm prepared to vote for it. I 22 do agree that the problem is often that dispute 23 as to what the assumption or assumed interest 1389 1 rate will be that oftentimes can skewer 2 long-term costs. A minor percent or a percent 3 and a half change in the interest rate can 4 literally take billions, or I doubt billions, 5 depending on the size of the bond issue, but 6 certainly millions, if not hundreds of millions 7 of dollars over time. 8 I would suggest to the sponsor 9 that the bill be amended so that the Comptroller 10 furnish to the Legislature a stated assumption, 11 assumed interest rate and that, in approving the 12 proposition, we also approve the calculation of 13 the amortization so that there is no dispute 14 between Democrats and Republicans pro and con on 15 a bond issue about what the estimated 16 amortization cost would be. 17 And just one other comment on the 18 bill. I agree with my comment made by Senator 19 Leichter. I think it's an interesting 20 transition from truth in lending to truth in 21 spending to truth in mailing, and it's my hope 22 that the comments made by Senator Leichter that 23 we may be able to get to talk about in greater 1390 1 detail tomorrow will become a part of the debate 2 in this institution as we figure out how we 3 spend 168 million that we directly control and, 4 I should add I guess it's 168 million. I can 5 only estimate. I don't really know. It may be 6 220 million. 7 But the only other comment I have 8 is really to my colleague from -- my neighboring 9 colleague on the east, Senator Nozzolio, I agree 10 this is a good bill. I commend the Election 11 Committee for bringing this bill forward. I 12 point out that there is a stack of other bills 13 that may be accumulating in the committee 14 shortly, one that you have proposed on 15 initiative and referendum which I support, one 16 that I have proposed on same day registration, 17 on motor-voter, on a whole bunch of other things 18 that will get access to the election process and 19 will accelerate election reform in this state. 20 It's my hope that this will be 21 the first bill to come from the committee that 22 it will start a string of reforms that will be 23 embraced by the other side of the aisle as well 1391 1 as this side, and we can bring the election 2 process not only to better and full disclosure 3 about ballot propositions but have better and 4 full disclosure about who we are and what we 5 spend so the public can cast educated decisions 6 not only about propositions on the ballot but 7 about who put 'em there. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Is there 9 any further debate on the Farley bill which is 10 before the house? If not, read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Present, I believe that 20 concludes the calendar. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: It does unless 22 somebody has amendments or something to offer; 23 why, Mr. President, there being no further 1392 1 business, I move we adjourn until tomorrow at 2 11:30 a.m. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: So 4 ordered. 5 (Whereupon at 1:52 p.m., the 6 Senate adjourned.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17