Thursday, April 1, 1993

2056 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 1, 1993 11 7:53 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 2057 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 3 will come to order. Senators will find their 4 seats. 5 Please rise with me for the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. ) 9 Today, in the absence of visiting 10 clergy, we will bow our heads for a moment of 11 silence. 12 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 13 silence. ) 14 Secretary will begin by reading 15 the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Wednesday, March 31. The Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. Senator Farley in the Chair upon 19 designation of the Temporary President. The 20 Journal of Tuesday, March 30, was read and 21 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 23 no objection, the journal will stand approved as 2058 1 read. 2 The order of business: 3 Presentation of petitions. 4 Messages from the Assembly. 5 Messages from the Governor. 6 Reports of standing committees. 7 Reports of select committees. 8 Communications and reports from 9 state officers. 10 Motions and resolutions. 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. I would like to offer up the 14 following privileged resolution and ask it be 15 read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 17 resolution, by Senator Libous, recognizing the 18 month of April 1993 as Alcoholism Awareness 19 Month in the state of New York. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Libous. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 23 I know the hour is late, and I won't take a long 2059 1 time but I just -- I think this is important 2 enough to make a couple of comments. As 3 chairman of the Senate Committee on Alcoholism 4 and Drug Abuse, I just want to point out that 5 April is Alcoholism Awareness Month, and I think 6 it is something that all of my colleagues in 7 this chamber should be very much aware of. 8 Just to cite a couple of examples 9 and some statistics, about 1.4 million New York 10 citizens suffer directly from the effects of 11 alcoholism. 12 And I just want to share a couple 13 of other points with you that I think are very 14 important: That 50 percent of all homicides and 15 forcible rapes in New York State, 70 percent of 16 all robberies, 65 percent of all child abuse 17 cases, and 70 percent of all series assaults 18 have alcohol that are dealing with those types 19 of assaults that affect American citizens and 20 particularly the citizens of New York State. 21 Alcoholism is a severe problem 22 that we do have. By making April Alcoholism 23 Awareness Month, I hope that all of my 2060 1 colleagues in this chamber will go forth and at 2 least keeping in their mind the fact that 3 alcoholism is something that we need to continue 4 to fight, something that we need to continue to 5 look at, whether it deals with alcohol and 6 driving, drunken driving, or these statistics 7 that I shared with you. 8 The other point that I want to 9 make before closing is that a recent survey of 10 high school students in grades 7 through 12 is 11 telling us that 11 percent call themselves 12 hooked on alcohol. Mr. President, I find that 13 and those statistics to be somewhat alarming, 14 and I ask for adoption of this resolution. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 19 President. Will the Senator be kind enough to 20 open it up for co-sponsorship? I know there are 21 people who are interested. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely. I 23 would open that up for all my colleagues for 2061 1 co-sponsorship. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Please 3 approach the desk or let them know that you 4 would like to co-sponsor this alcoholism 5 resolution. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could we include 7 all members unless someone does not wish to be 8 co-sponsor. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 10 strictly up to the Acting Majority Leader. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Certainly. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 13 objection, Senator Ohrenstein, do you want all 14 members on it? 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No. Just 16 those who wish to. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just 18 those. Senator Present, do you want all the 19 Republican members on it? 20 SENATOR PRESENT: All those who 21 want -- or deny that they don't want. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 23 Republicans are going to be on it. Democrats 2062 1 approach the -- let the desk know if you wish to 2 be a sponsor. 3 On the resolution. All in favor, 4 say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 11 Can you star my bill, S. 48 - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 13 on. I can't even hear you. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 15 Can you star my bill, S. 48, Calendar 381, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor. 19 Senator Kuhl. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 21 President. On page 17, I offer the following 22 amendments to Calendar Number 273, Senate Print 23 2452, and ask that said bill retain its place on 2063 1 the Third Reading Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 amendments are received. The bill will retain 4 its place. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Johnson. 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 9 On page 17, I would like to place a sponsor star 10 on Calendar Number 260, Print Number 3140. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor. 13 Are there any other motions on 14 the floor? 15 Senator Present, we go to you. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 let's take up the non-controversial calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Non 19 controversial calendar. Secretary will read 20 it. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 12, 22 Calendar Number 63, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill 23 Number 191, an act to amend the Vehicle 2064 1 and Traffic Law. 2 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Lay it 3 aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 5 that bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 146, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 8 2135A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 9 Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 18 one, Senator Holland recorded in the negative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 277, by Senator Levy. 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Lay it 2065 1 aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 359, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 6 Bill Number 3986, an act to amend Chapter 905 of 7 the Laws of 1986, amending the General Municipal 8 Law. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 396, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 4064, 14 an act to amend the Tax Law and Chapter 713 of 15 the Laws of 1992 amending the Tax Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 2066 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Could you, Mr. 5 President, please remove that star from S.48, 6 Calendar 381, until it is on third reading. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 star is removed from the bill. 9 Senator Present, that concludes 10 the non-controversial. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 12 Let's take up the controversial calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Controversial. The Secretary will read it. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 12, 16 Calendar Number 63, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill 17 Number 191. 18 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 277, by Senator Levy. 23 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside. 2067 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 2 that bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 359, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 5 Bill Number 3986, an act to amend Chapter 905 of 6 the Laws of 1986, amending the General Municipal 7 Law. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Explanation has been asked for. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: The purpose of 12 this bill is to extend the specific facilities 13 portion of the IDA bill for the next 3 months. 14 There are many projects that are under way, more 15 specifically in New York City and some of our 16 larger cities across the state. Failure to 17 enact this for the next three months until we do 18 something with the IDAs will cause those 19 projects to go down the tubes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will Senator 23 Larkin yield, please? 2068 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Larkin, will you yield to Senator Leichter? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. I'm not 4 mean-spirited, by the way. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 6 I know you're not, and while some of your bills 7 maybe don't express the best of benefit to the 8 people of the state of New York, I would never 9 accuse you personally of being mean-spirited. I 10 know you're not. 11 But I am concerned about the 12 bill, and I wonder if you will yield? 13 Senator, you mentioned that there 14 are a number of projects of a specific nature 15 which are being financed through the IDA 16 mechanism. As you know, the IDA mechanism 17 provides for the abatement or elimination of 18 sales taxes. That has a definite consequence 19 not only for the locality but also for the state 20 of New York. 21 Can you tell us what projects, 22 what the dollar value of these projects are, so 23 that we can make some estimate of what the loss 2069 1 of revenue would be for the state? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: No, I can't give 3 you the exact number, Franz, but I can just tell 4 you this much here, that one of the problems 5 with this whole IDA was the agreements between 6 both houses. And the other house was supposed 7 to take it up today or probably tomorrow. But 8 the projects that are -- some of them are in 9 being and negotiated and would be in jeopardy if 10 this wasn't extended for the 90 days. 11 This will be part of the overall 12 IDA reform bill that, hopefully, we will do 13 before we leave here this session, and the 14 purpose of this was to not disrupt those that 15 are in progress right now. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. Would Senator Larkin yield for 18 another question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Larkin? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. M-m h-m-m. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Could you just 23 tell us one of the projects? 2070 1 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't have the 2 list right here with me. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: You cannot 4 tell us just one? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: I just answered 6 you that. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, you 8 know, I -- Mr. President. I guess I'm a bit 9 concerned because we're told that there are all 10 of these important projects that may go down the 11 drain, and then Senator Larkin can't tell us 12 what these projects are. 13 Just on the bill, I would 14 certainly feel more comfortable if I could have 15 some idea of what we're talking about and if we 16 could make some assessment of what the cost is 17 to the state. IDA is a terribly expensive 18 program. It's probably a program -- I won't say 19 probably. It is a program that is badly 20 flawed. I don't know whether it makes sense to 21 extend it to governmental projects, civic 22 projects, particularly when we don't even know 23 what these projects are. 2071 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 Senator DeFrancisco. Did you 4 want to speak to the bill or explain your vote? 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I could 6 speak to the bill. 7 Since she's not here, I thought 8 maybe I would express this for her. I'm 9 familiar with a project that's going on in 10 Larraine Hoffmann's district. It's in the 11 university section. It's called "The Forum," 12 and it's a physicians' building, a substantial 13 structure that's going to be built in Syracuse. 14 They are negotiating the thing right now. I 15 have had calls, and I know Larraine's had calls, 16 that if this isn't extended that project is 17 dead. And it's a very significant project in 18 the university area. And that's why I'm very 19 interested in this bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 2072 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Present, that concludes 8 the calendar. 9 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 10 the proceedings. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 I believe that Senator Galiber has something and 15 if you will bear with him for a minute. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you very 17 kindly. 18 This is a motion to discharge, 19 and I appreciate the leadership here allowing me 20 this opportunity to deal with it. 21 This motion to discharge touches 22 concerns that are very interesting. 23 Yes? 2073 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Might 2 he read -- he would like to read this motion to 3 discharge. 4 Which one is it, Senator? 5 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm sorry. I 6 think it's 1668. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Do you 8 have that? 9 THE SECRETARY: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 11 that. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: There's two 13 there, but in the interest of time, very 14 frankly, I could allude to the - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Take 16 them both together? 17 SENATOR GALIBER: -- second one 18 to save some time. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 20 you. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Galiber, Senate Bill Number 1667A, an act 23 providing for the abolition of the New York City 2074 1 Central Board of Education and transferring the 2 functions, powers and duties heretofore 3 exercised to borough boards of education as 4 herein established. 5 Also, Senate Bill Number 1668, by 6 Senator Galiber, an act in relation to excising 7 the public schools in Bronx from the New York 8 City School District and establishing a Bronx 9 Borough Board of Education and providing for the 10 repeal of such provisions upon expiration 11 thereof. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Galiber, on the motion. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, Mr. 15 President. I will incorporate both of them. 16 The principal one that I'm concerned with is the 17 one which, in effect, abolishes 110 Livingston 18 Street. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: If you 20 will, there is an awful lot of conversation 21 going on in the chamber, and it's very difficult 22 for the stenographer and for the members to hear 23 Senator Galiber. 2075 1 Senator, please continue. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: This 110 3 Livingston Street expends some $140 million each 4 year. None of that money goes directly and in 5 my best judgment indirectly to the education of 6 our youngsters. 7 Education is key to our future, 8 it's key to our present, and it has been key to 9 where we are today. We have lost an entire 10 generation of youngsters. We are not educating 11 our youngsters in the state of New York; to a 12 larger degree not in our urban centers where the 13 future of the state and the future of the nation 14 hinges. 15 In the city of New York, we have 16 some 32 school decentralization districts. 17 Senator Marchi and I were here in the 1970s when 18 school decentralization became the order of the 19 day rising out of a political situation which 20 occurred in Brooklyn, and the bill that we had 21 ultimately was a political decision that was 22 made by a body of persons with a great deal of 23 influence with the UFT. Keep in mind, 2076 1 colleagues, a political decision. 2 I had the privilege to work with 3 Senator Marchi and Congressman now, Charles 4 Rangel; David Paterson's dad, Basil; and we 5 worked desperately on this piece of legislation, 6 and at the end when we put it altogether, it was 7 so horrible that Basil Paterson and myself voted 8 against that bill because it did absolutely 9 nothing to educate the youngsters of our city. 10 That time, history has shown that 11 that no vote was a tremendous vote. Like an old 12 wine the no vote was a good vintage meaning it 13 grew with time. 14 As the result of dissatisfaction 15 and criticism and concern about the education of 16 our youngsters, we tried for years to put 17 Band-Aids on it. Last year, the year before 18 last? Time goes by so fast. Senator, was it 19 three years ago or four years ago? We created 20 the so-called Marchi Commission -- not so 21 called. Called Marchi Commission. And rightly 22 so. Because no one has been more committed to 23 education in the state of New York than Senator 2077 1 Marchi has been. 2 What grew out of that school 3 governance committee -- the commissioners that 4 served on that commission, dedicated women and 5 men. I have been honored and privileged to 6 serve on a number of temporary commissions, task 7 forces, interested commissions, but never in the 8 history of my political life as a Senator have I 9 been privileged to serve with such great men and 10 women committed to the cause of education. 11 Unfortunately, as we went through 12 the process and we heard from all aspects of our 13 educational system, we understood that it was 14 almost a given, very frankly, that school-based 15 management was a good concept. School-based 16 management. We do not want to get in a 17 quagmire, if you will -- bogged down, if you 18 will, on whether the Dade County experiment 19 worked, whether school-based management was 20 better in Chicago or Rochester or through some 21 other demonstration programs. 22 But the sign posts were all there 23 through the the entire hearing that we were not 2078 1 educating our youngsters, and we had to make our 2 school districts and school decisions closer to 3 the neighborhoods, closer to the community. 4 Almost to a commissioner, everyone agreed that's 5 what had to happen, that we had to give to 6 principals a larger responsibility of decision 7 making. We had to commingle with the principals, 8 the teachers and the parents, who were concerned 9 about educating their youngsters. Everyone 10 agreed. 11 The difficulty, of course, was 12 after we heard all this excellent testimony and 13 came to that basic conclusion, there was an in 14 consistency between the findings and the 15 conclusion. The conclusion was that we would 16 retain 110 Livingston Street. That was 17 inconsistent with all the testimony. Because we 18 realized that 110 Livingston had outgrown its 19 usefulness, if it ever had any usefulness, and 20 we had to cut away and do away with that 21 bureaucracy. 22 I wrote a minority report. And, 23 my good colleagues, listen very carefully. Some 2079 1 of you might have missed it because they stuck 2 the minority report in the middle of the 3 report. And as reports go, most of the time we 4 don't read them. But the report was a very 5 simple one. It wasn't originated with Joe 6 Galiber. It was originated, early on, in the 7 '70s where those persons who had the foresight 8 to understand that smaller, in this instance, 9 was better for our youngsters if we really and 10 truly wanted to educate them. 11 And the minority report was a 12 simple one. It said that we want to take away 13 110 Livingston Street and give to each borough 14 and to each borough president the responsibility 15 for educating our youngsters. Not very 16 complicated. We would have a simple board. We 17 would have a board with one superintendent. We 18 would have the presidents of the board -- all 19 boards in that borough on it. The mayor of the 20 city of New York would have one designated 21 person -- ran a little contrary to the spirit of 22 what happened this year. The borough president 23 would have one, and then the City Council would 2080 1 be responsible for another person. 2 Within that frame, we would have 3 a superintendent who ultimately would have the 4 responsibility of hiring, in this bill. And we 5 all know of all the horror stories that we have 6 heard throughout the decentralization period of 7 time, where clubs, political clubs, faded away; 8 the school districts and the school boards and 9 the decentralization boards became the patronage 10 dispensers in our community. Horrible things 11 happened, focusing on who gets hired, who 12 doesn't get hired, what the structure was, but 13 never focusing on the youngsters in our school 14 district. 15 Now, the Governor this year 16 started out with a notion. So I can give the 17 flavor of what we are dealing with in our city 18 -- and we focus on what happens in our city 19 because you've got to understand the population 20 that we're dealing with -- one-third of all the 21 students are in the city of New York. 22 Let me take a negative and why we 23 from time to time argue with you that we have to 2081 1 take the concerns and the societal problems of a 2 particular area in order to look to the future 3 to solve some of these problems. From a 4 negative standpoint, 75 percent of our prison 5 population comes from the city of New York; 18 6 Assembly districts, if you will, account for 7 that 75 percent. Most of our dilapidated 8 housing centers are in the city of New York. 9 Job opportunities aren't there. 10 And some would say, Senator, what 11 has that to do with education? It has everything 12 to do with education. We spend our time and our 13 effort educating, and we spend less time later 14 on and less money later on dealing with the 15 population. 16 Back, Senator, to what the 17 Governor said in his State of the State 18 Message. The Governor said, "Look, we've got 19 over 600 different formulas of education 20 throughout our state. What we'll have to do is 21 to change these formulas." 22 And this bill and education is 23 timely, because I think perhaps one of the 2082 1 reasons why we are here tonight is because we 2 haven't got the educational formula together. 3 Every year, it's the same problem, so many 4 formulas, in order to satisfy so many 5 constituencies, never with a singular view of 6 educating our youngsters. 7 The Governor said, Let's do a 8 regional notion. "Let's cut it down to 15 9 regions possibly." Whether we cut it down to 15 10 or no, the fact of the matter is how are we 11 going about the business of educating our 12 youngsters. 13 This is one single issue that 14 there should be no difference on. We may differ 15 procedurally. Because, historically, motions to 16 discharge are procedural, someone said the other 17 night. Not in my best judgment. It may be a 18 procedure to get to the substantive matter which 19 is concerning ourselves with education. So I 20 don't think we should just slough off this time, 21 if you will, and say, "This is a Democrat who 22 has the only vehicle through which to get a bill 23 moved." It's not the bill. It's the substance 2083 1 that I'm referring to. Whether the bill comes 2 from your side or my side is irrelevant. 3 The fact of the matter is we need 4 this bill more so now for all the reasons that I 5 have mentioned. And I say over and over again, 6 we certainly are not educating our youngsters 7 and they are the future, when 80 percent of the 8 urban centers are the work forces of tomorrow. 9 And we're saying, "But, Senator, 10 this is a motion to discharge. It is a 11 procedural matter." Therefore, historically, we 12 have said, "Party vote in the negative," and on 13 rare occasions when I have some of my colleagues 14 who go to war with me -- no, skirmishes, because 15 war has a permanency attached to it - 16 skirmishes with me, saying, "Senator, we're not 17 going to vote with you;" therefore, there are 18 some exceptions. 19 The fact of the matter is that 20 this piece of legislation is not authored by Joe 21 Galiber. It is just brought to the top by Joe 22 Galiber at an opportune time when we recognize 23 that we weren't doing collectively and that we 2084 1 have to move toward doing something positive 2 now, not tomorrow. The fact of the matter is 3 that this piece of legislation is needed so 4 badly. 5 There are a few reports out. You 6 should read them, because they are saying simply 7 that: School-based management, decisions closer 8 to communities, involvement with the parents, 9 involvement with the communities, advisory 10 boards or counseling boards, taking away the 11 proper power, adding on where it's needed. 12 And some have suggested if we do 13 with 110 Livingston street at all -- and I go 14 along with it, very frankly -- is that perhaps 15 we should leave them in a position where, for 16 example, if you buy pencils for five school 17 districts, then you are going to get the rate - 18 the pencils cheaper in five boroughs - 19 somewhere in that capacity, and that's all, not 20 the dumping ground for those who have failed our 21 youngsters and are rewarded by placing them in 22 an institution where they do nothing but sit 23 behind a desk, not to be an arrogant institution 2085 1 which says, "Our children be damned; our 2 membership in a union is more important." 3 And, very frankly, colleagues, 4 the reason why the first decentralization bill 5 did not pass with any teeth and strength in it, 6 if you will, was the fact that the UFT 7 intervened, and they felt threatened by this. 8 And there are those of us who are 9 born with union concepts, support unions from 10 time to time, dislike the notion that we have to 11 choose up sides between the union membership or 12 our youngsters. Should not have to be that. 13 But there has to be a give and take. And if the 14 union is not willing to cooperate with us then, 15 collectively, we should go through the process 16 of taking or destroying or cutting away, and 17 that's what we have to do. 18 The commissioners that serve with 19 me, honorable men, and not the honorable men 20 that Shakespeare talked about when Antony did a 21 number at that particular point in time, but 22 honorable men and women with good intent but the 23 inability to focus on and continually to focus 2086 1 on what is really needed. 2 The UFT again came into play, and 3 they were so strong and so powerful that they 4 were able to convince some of my colleagues that 5 this was -- and some of my colleagues, in all 6 candor and honestly, not lacking in honesty or 7 integrity but felt perhaps this was the best 8 way. My subjective view. They put a contract 9 in. It's like strong lobbying. 10 And we all understand lobbying, 11 but there comes a time -- just like they did in 12 Jersey with the rifle association -- there comes 13 a time when the people speak out, and this is 14 the time, the people in the state of New York, 15 whatever your area may be, wherever you may 16 live, wherever you may educate your youngsters 17 in a better setting, perhaps, than the city of 18 New York. It makes it a lot easier. 19 Your superintendents, as we 20 write, make monies out in Nassau or Suffolk far 21 exceeding any other place. But that's 22 irrelevant to me. That's irrelevant to me. I 23 write on it. My colleagues and I have joined in 2087 1 some reports pointing this out, but for this 2 singular purpose, it doesn't matter. If you 3 want to could do away with the save harmless 4 throughout the state, change the formula -- we 5 would like in the city of New York to give us a 6 different formula. We are educating youngsters 7 at a low rate. You know it. You know it. 8 But no, we can't change those 9 formulas. What you can do -- what you can do, 10 keep your high paid superintendents in your 11 districts, keep your educational process that 12 you have if it's good, but give us in the city 13 of New York -- and it's only the city of New 14 York -- an opportunity to educate the bulk of 15 our future in this state, the youngsters who are 16 not educated. Let's put them to work. Let's 17 keep them out of jail. Let's let them be part 18 of the growth of New York State and this great 19 country of ours. 20 So, Mr. President, I ask in a 21 simple substantive motion, not a procedural 22 motion, to allow this bill to come out of 23 committee so that we can debate it. Because, 2088 1 secretly, if I were to take a poll, there is not 2 one person within the sound of my voice would 3 vote against this notion of educating our 4 youngsters in the state of New York. 5 I so move, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Galiber -- okay. 8 Senator Padavan, and then Senator 9 Marchi. There are several who want to speak to 10 it. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 12 Galiber, I first want to say very forthrightly 13 that I agree with virtually if not everything 14 you said and agree with both the spirit and the 15 direction of your proposal. 16 And as you have been talking and 17 as I have been trying to listen, I also 18 requested, through your counsel, copies. And I 19 presume your presentation and your point of view 20 expressed both 1668 and 1667A. So I would like 21 to comment on both those proposals. 22 Your observations relevant to the 23 efficacy of borough boards I think has garnered 2089 1 the attention of many people in the city of New 2 York. I, for one, have been working with some 3 responsible educational leaders, Carol Gresser 4 as an example, whose a member of the Central 5 Board from Queens, members of the Association of 6 Administrators, School Board Superintendents and 7 Principals, as well as others in trying to 8 develop an outline of how the best approach to 9 achieving your objectives could be brought 10 about. 11 One of several areas that kind of 12 become, if not stumbling blocks, areas that seem 13 to require more study or, if not study, 14 solutions, are ones that I would like to ask you 15 about and see if you have given them any 16 thought, and I'm going to ask them in total so 17 you can respond. I don't want it to be a Q and 18 A. I would just like to raise some of these 19 concerns or issues or points of view with you 20 and see what you think about them. 21 One of the issues raised was 22 relevant to certain centralized functions that 23 the board of education provides today that can 2090 1 best be categorized as capital assets: School 2 buildings, modernization, renovation, the School 3 Building Construction Authority which, while 4 independent, has oversight and a direct 5 connection to the board of education currently, 6 the citywide or centralized purchasing that 7 takes place currently by the board of education 8 for things such as supplies, books, computers, a 9 myriad of items that are purchased by 10 centralized purchasing agents presumably to get 11 the best possible price that are then 12 distributed around the city. How do we break 13 that up? That was the question. That is the 14 question. 15 I'm going to try and put them 16 together, Senator, then you can respond as you 17 see fit. 18 Another question that was raised 19 is collective bargaining. Within the Board of 20 Education, we have either the obvious entity the 21 UFT that represents all of the teachers, groups 22 that represent the administrators, other unions 23 that represent clerical employees, custodial 2091 1 employees. I'm not sure how many different 2 unions there are who participate in a collective 3 bargaining process with the city of New York and 4 with the board of education. How do we break 5 that up? 6 Your bill does address the issue 7 of an orderly transference of individuals in 8 terms of the their Civil Service status from the 9 borough board to the central board. So you have 10 taken care of that part. 11 But what I don't see and maybe I 12 just didn't pick it up quickly is the collective 13 bargaining aspect of how these people are hired 14 in the first place through the Department of 15 Personnel, the hiring process, the successor 16 that now exists to the old Board of Examiners, 17 which does centralized hiring and screening of 18 various categories within the Board of 19 Education. How do we break that up in an 20 efficient productive way? 21 Now, you have structured your 22 borough boards along the following lines -- if I 23 read it, as I say I read it quickly -- each 2092 1 superintendent and three other members; one from 2 the mayor, one from the borough president and 3 one from the council members-at-large as a 4 delegation. That seems like a reasonable 5 approach. It would vary in number, of course, 6 from borough to borough. Staten Island would 7 have a smaller one reflective of its 8 configuration. 9 There is some question, however, 10 that was raised about whether or not it may be 11 desirable, since we elect community school 12 boards, as to whether or not we should also 13 elect borough boards. Now, that has problems 14 and I can understand them. Politicizing the 15 borough board in that fashion could present 16 problems, but we do elect community school 17 boards. And then the superintendent, who is not 18 elected but appointed, and the superintendents 19 as a group would obviously be the dominant 20 category on your proposed borough board. Could 21 be good, could be bad. I'm not quite sure. But 22 it is certainly something that is being raised 23 as an area of further analysis. 2093 1 So, Senator, what I would like 2 you to do, if you would, is if you would respond 3 to these concerns that have been raised to me in 4 deliberations that I have had. 5 And before I sit down, let me 6 again repeat. I thank you for bringing this 7 issue to the surface in the fashion you have 8 done so. We would have been disposed to do so, 9 as well, except all the questions that I've 10 raised and others that I've probably forgotten 11 had not yet been resolved. I think if there is 12 any problem with your motion, it is that. Not 13 with your concept, not with your idea, and not 14 with the basic thrust of it. 15 If there is a problem, it's that 16 some of these questions are still unanswered, 17 either in terms of the minds of the people whose 18 expertise we rely upon or directly in your bill. 19 Sp, Senator, if you would give us 20 the benefit of your thoughts on some of these 21 issues, I would appreciate it. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Galiber, did you want to respond? 2094 1 SENATOR GALIBER: First off, I 2 wanted to thank Senator Paterson for promising 3 me that he will follow in the footsteps of his 4 dad and support this motion to discharge, and 5 I'm in appreciation for that. 6 Senator Padavan, on the questions 7 that you asked, certainly they are excellent 8 ones, and they are things that were built into 9 this piece of legislation. If it is not all 10 spelled out, the spirit of what you are talking 11 about certainly is there. 12 And I know as well as you do. 13 First off, I alluded to it -- only I used 14 erasers, if you will, as an example -- that 110 15 Livingston Street certainly can deal with the 16 capital issues that you mentioned a lot better, 17 if you will, than the separate boards. Makes 18 good sense that we follow that pattern. 19 We voted on the school 20 construction bill some two or three years ago. 21 Time is running out on some of us, passing by 22 for others, but the fact of the matter is we 23 recognized that we needed an authority, and we 2095 1 needed it badly. Because with the local 2 government and the process we went through in 3 order to build a school, it took some ten years 4 or so. So they have done a fairly good job, the 5 school construction. So I agree with you as far 6 as that aspect of it. That's an easy part of 7 the piece of legislation that I have 8 introduced. 9 As far as the collective 10 bargaining, I again alluded to it, that most of 11 us are concerned about the constituents in our 12 schools and we want to take care of that portion 13 of it. Collective bargaining in my best 14 judgment, Senator, can be done. We can ask 15 everybody to make a bit of sacrifice. No, not 16 really sacrifice. It should be deemed or looked 17 upon as a change for a better purpose. Five 18 boroughs, there is not much to ask unions to 19 negotiate with if structured right. So I feel 20 that we can do that and accomplish that end with 21 merely a notion of collective bargaining with 22 the five boroughs. 23 Because what we strive for, 2096 1 again, when we went through the school 2 governance portion of the Marchi Commission that 3 I was privileged, as I said before, to serve on, 4 that there were those who hoped that we would 5 get to the point where we would almost have a 6 different form of governance that we viewed 7 outside of the city of New York as a 8 possibility. We pay a price for our 9 collectiveness in the city of New York. We pay 10 a price for the closeness and the contiguous 11 portion, almost contiguous portion of the five 12 boroughs. 13 That's why some of us don't want 14 you to leave, Queens. Some of us don't want you 15 to leave, Staten Island. Because there is a 16 uniqueness about it, and we have the ability to 17 make that uniqueness very powerful and strong in 18 terms of movement to educate our youngsters. 19 So we could ask those who are in 20 the union. Come back from the suburbia where 21 you live. In fact, the bill calls for a 22 residency requirement in the bill. It might be 23 a klinker to some. But again, the decisions, 2097 1 the commitment, the closeness, all those things 2 that came out. 3 So, Senator, I don't think it's 4 too much of a problem to ask the union to bend a 5 little bit. 6 Point two, if they are sincere, 7 and most of them are, 99 percent. They just 8 have a different discipline. They're concerned 9 about their constituents, which is the 10 membership, but they also should be concerned - 11 whether they live in New York or no, they should 12 be concerned about the education of their 13 youngsters. Given that, I can see them coming 14 in and doing a little bit of collective 15 bargaining. 16 The funding portion of it, that 17 wasn't mentioned. The funding would come from 18 the state and the City and then from the federal 19 government into the City, and those monies would 20 be equally disbursed based upon a formula 21 through the the five boroughs. 22 The elected boards, you alluded 23 to that. We still are kind of mixed about 2098 1 that. I don't know whether we should be 2 electing the boards, but if we did, I would have 3 no serious objection to it, very frankly. And 4 if you are looking for it in the bill, Senator, 5 it's not covered in that bill, very candidly. 6 It's not covered. But it's a notion that we 7 have to consider. 8 Chicago experience. They had a 9 demonstration program in Chicago where they have 10 the school-based management formula. And what 11 they did, they took this notion to the people, 12 took this motion to the people. Maybe a 13 referendum. We have the power. If we haven't 14 the strength or the commitment here, maybe the 15 people. As they did in Chicago, they voted for 16 it. And interestingly, Senator, there was about 17 a 35 percent turnout in that election. And you 18 know the horrible statistics that we have now on 19 school board elections on turnouts? Very, very 20 small. But they were so concerned, as we should 21 be concerned, about the education of the 22 youngsters that the parents of the youngsters, 23 the people in the community, those who had gone 2099 1 through experience in life, the old folks, and 2 those who were interested in the future, came 3 out and participated. 4 So if we elect the board, the 5 thrust of having one superintendent was to get 6 away from the notion of all the administrative 7 -- I almost think, very frankly, that someone 8 wisely put that notion of school boards not 9 being elected. Because that sounds democratic 10 and it's good. But the notion of allowing 11 them -- they delegated what administrative 12 charts call nondelegable responsibilities. They 13 gave to the board the power to hire principals 14 and hire all down the line, which I don't think 15 they should have. 16 But if it came to that, Senator, 17 I have no problem, because I think it's easily 18 resolved, whether we have an election for 19 borough boards or whether we have -- I just want 20 the present system not to be in place, whatever 21 we ultimately decide. So that's still open. 22 I think the people certainly have 23 to have a vote. And I think if structured 2100 1 properly, they will come out and participate 2 whether we do it -- as we argued, do it in a 3 general election or whether we should do it on 4 the side. The notion of a proportionate 5 representation would go out the window in my 6 best judgment. 7 We adopted that -- those of us 8 who have been around long enough. John Marchi, 9 you recall. There was a nice gentleman who came 10 through some time ago with a theory of 11 proportionate representation. Nice guy. We all 12 fell in love with him. But, also, we all got 13 suckered in, and we got suckered into a system 14 of proportionate representation which is 15 horrible. We just got suckered in, being nice 16 persons. 17 Those were the good days, when we 18 were nice, gentle, kind and loving to people but 19 we got sucked in for the wrong purpose. 20 So, Senator, I think your points 21 are well taken. I think there is definitely a 22 role for 110 Livingston Street. I don't like 23 what they have been doing up to present. I want 2101 1 to vitiate most of what they have been doing 2 because they have been doing it horrible. But 3 there is a role for them. And within the frame 4 of the questions that you asked, I just used 5 erasers in one instance. I agree with you the 6 School Construction Authority has been helpful. 7 And I think that, notwithstanding that, we can 8 still move and put this out on the floor. 9 And we know the process. It's a 10 business of amending and dealing with and I was 11 encouraged, very frankly, because when I floated 12 this bill some year or two ago, I was the lone 13 person on this piece of legislation, lone 14 person. I had a good friend of mine from your 15 county who left us too soon, Altman, Irwan 16 Altman, who served as a commissioner, a tough 17 administrator, good person, committed to 18 educating our youngsters. And before the Man 19 Upstairs decided to take him from us, too soon, 20 of course, he was beginning to say, "Joe, we 21 should maybe take another look at what we were 22 doing." 23 The superintendents of -- there 2102 1 is an association for the superintendents. I 2 don't have the name for them. They are now 3 advocating us. Singer is the president. We 4 have a borough president in Manhattan, a bit 5 ambitious, wants to run. She's come up with a 6 similar plan that I have here or that we have. 7 Because we collectively believe in what this 8 bill represents. We just don't want to bring it 9 out so we'd have an opportunity to pass it. 10 Because if it comes out, we will pass it. 11 So, Senator, your questions are 12 well taken. I think we have covered most of 13 them. The elections -- certainly we want people 14 to participate. We don't want to appoint 15 people, then we get too deeply involved in 16 politics. 17 So I think that notwithstanding, 18 we have the opportunity to change the formulas a 19 bit, if needed, share the responsibility, but 20 give to the -- give to these boards what we did 21 not give in the first decentralization bill. 22 You don't have the power if you don't have 23 control over your purse strings. You just don't 2103 1 have it, and we didn't give it to our school 2 boards. 3 Someone said, Senator, maybe it's 4 good, as history has recorded, good thing we 5 didn't do it. I don't believe that. It's just 6 that they had to go hat in hand to 110 7 Livingston, "Please, may I have a little money 8 for this program; change the formula for the 9 other program." We need to vitiate all that, 10 Senator. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 12 motion. We will take the first motion. We'll 13 vote on them separately. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: The only one 15 thing I wanted to add was that I would hope that 16 you would certainly move to discharge the bill, 17 the main piece of legislation. If you feel that 18 you still want to be quagmired with an 19 antiquated system which is doing horror for our 20 youngsters, then I ask you please, as we do from 21 time to time, something for my own districts. 22 And everybody should respond to that, something 23 for my own district. Discharge the 2104 1 demonstration bill that calls on separating 2 Bronx County from all of what I have said, and 3 let's demonstrate with what's in my backyard and 4 my county which certainly touches the concerns 5 of the youngsters who are attempting to be 6 educated in my county. 7 And the bill covers, if you will, 8 also -- Senator, the high schools would be 9 involved. They would not be separate as they 10 are now. 11 So there is two motions. If the 12 first one succeeds, and I hope so for the 13 benefit of all my colleagues in the city of New 14 York, and if that fails, please do the other 15 one. It's in my backyard. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 17 motion for the bill 1668. All in favor, say 18 aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Those opposed, nay. 21 The motion - 22 (Laughter. ) 23 I don't think - 2105 1 (Laughter. ) 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 3 I don't hear one nay. I mean I need this 4 cooperation from you also - 5 (Laughter. ) 6 Unless silence is consent as my 7 colleague has indicated. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Gee. 9 The motion is not accepted. Senator Marchi is 10 very loud. 11 SENATOR MARCHI: I'm not going to 12 speak on the bill, but I will explain my vote. 13 Senator, when there is a bill, a 14 real bill, I trust and hope you will be on it 15 because we have discussed that. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On 17 1667A. All in favor of the motion, say aye. 18 (A loud response of "Aye." ) 19 (Laughter. ) 20 All opposed. 21 (A loud response of "Nay." ) 22 (Laughter. ) 23 The motion is not accepted. 2106 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there being no further business, I would like to 4 announce that there will be a Majority 5 Conference tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. in the usual 6 conference room; that we adjourn this session 7 until 1:00 p.m. Saturday, April 3, intervening 8 days being legislative days. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Tomorrow, there will be a Majority Conference in 11 332 at 1:00 p.m., intervening legislative day, 12 but there will be a session day on Saturday 1:00 13 p.m. 14 Senator Ohrenstein, you have an 15 announcement. 16 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: There will 17 be a Democratic Conference at 1:00 p.m. on 18 Saturday. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 20 will be a Democratic Conference at 1:00 p.m. on 21 Saturday. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: 1:15? You 23 got it. 2107 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1:15 on 2 Saturday. 3 The Senate stands adjourned. 4 (Whereupon, at 8:47 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned. ) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14