Tuesday, May 4, 1993

3040 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 4, 1993 11 6:19 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 3041 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please 4 find their seats. If you would please rise for 5 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 8 This evening we're pleased to 9 have with us Bishop Muriel Grant of the Mount 10 Olivet Discipleship of Brooklyn, New York. 11 Bishop Grant. 12 BISHOP MURIEL GRANT: Let us 13 pray. 14 May the divine presence of the 15 Almighty God be with us this day, and though we 16 are yet a short distance from the genesis of 17 this administration, may He guide and bless the 18 President of these United States. Bless our 19 land with honorable industry, sound learning and 20 pure manners. Save us from violence, discord 21 and confusion, from pride and arrogance and from 22 every evil way. Defend our liberty in its 23 foundations and fashion us into one united 3042 1 people, the multitudes brought hither out of 2 many kindreds and towns, but yet one in 3 divisible under God. Most especially, O Lord, 4 we beseech Thee for our very Senate 5 representatives here assembled, Democrats and 6 Republicans, that Thou wouldst be pleased to 7 direct and prosper all their consultations for 8 the advancement of Thy glory, the good of Thy 9 church, the safety, honor and welfare of Thy 10 people that all things may be ordered and 11 settled by their endeavors upon the best and 12 surest foundations, that peace and happiness, 13 truth and justice, religion and piety may be 14 established among us for all generations. 15 These and all other necessities I 16 do humbly pray in the name of Jesus Christ, our 17 most blessed Lord and Savior. Amen. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 Secretary will begin by reading the Journal. 20 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 21 Monday, May 3rd. The Senate met pursuant to 22 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 23 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer 3043 1 by the Reverend Michael Martin of St. Francis 2 High School in Hamburg, New York. The Journal 3 of Friday, April 30th, was read and approved. 4 On motion, Senate adjourned. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 6 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 7 read. 8 The order of business: 9 Presentation of petitions. 10 Messages from the Assembly. 11 Messages from the Governor. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Are there 16 any messages at the desk from the Assembly? 17 THE SECRETARY: I don't have any. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 19 none. 20 SENATOR GOLD: It's my 21 understanding, Mr. President, that the Assembly 22 yesterday, I believe it was, adopted a resolu 23 tion confirming the existence of a joint session 3044 1 tomorrow at 10:30 in the Assembly Chamber called 2 pursuant to a document signed by the Lt. 3 Governor and by the Speaker, and I was informed 4 that that was at least presented to our desk and 5 is in the house. What the Chair does with it is 6 up to the Chair, but I think that the document 7 was, in fact, filed with us. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: They're 9 not here at the desk. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of standing committees. 14 We have a report of a standing committee. We 15 have a number of nominations, Senator Present. 16 May we do them all at once? 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 18 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 19 following nominations: 20 Member of the New York State 21 Olympic Regional Development Authority: Frank 22 Leonbruno, of Bolton Landing, and Serge Lussi, 23 of Lake Placid; 3045 1 New York Convention Center 2 Operation Corporation: Gary J. Lavine, of 3 Syracuse, and Jerome Reiss, of New York City; 4 Member of the Mental Health 5 Services Council: M. Juliana Degone, of Canton; 6 Banking Member of the State 7 Banking Board: George J. Vojta, of Bronxville; 8 Member of the Board of Visitors 9 of the South Beach Psychiatric Center: Luis A. 10 Castro, of Brooklyn; 11 Member of the Board of Visitors 12 of the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center: Philip 13 Click, of Flushing, and Judy Grubin, of Jackson 14 Heights; 15 Member of the Board of Visitors 16 of the St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center: Michael 17 P. Frary, of Ogdensburg; 18 Member of the Board of Visitors 19 of the Letchworth Village Developmental 20 Disabilities Services Office: Judith Jurow, of 21 Middletown; 22 Member of the Board of Visitors 23 of the Newark Developmental Disabilities 3046 1 Services Office: Anne M. Longo, of Geneva; 2 Member of the Board of Visitors 3 of Syracuse Developmental Disabilities Services 4 Office: John P. McCrea, of Jamesville; 5 Member of the Board of Visitors 6 of the Bronx Developmental Disabilities Services 7 Office: Jack Meyers, of the Bronx; 8 Member of the Board of Visitors 9 of the Brooklyn Developmental Disabilities 10 Services: Antoinette Mizrahi, of Brooklyn; 11 Member of the Board of Visitors 12 of the Sagamore Children's Psychiatric Center: 13 Emanuel Plesent, of Dix Hills; 14 Member of the Board of Visitors 15 of the Bronx Psychiatric Center: Gladys 16 Rodriguez, of the Bronx; 17 Member of the Board of Visitors 18 of the Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center, Flora 19 L. Sainz, of Utica; 20 Member of the Board of Visitors 21 of the Staten Island Developmental Disabilities 22 Services Office: Richard Salinardi, of Staten 23 Island; 3047 1 Member of the Board of Visitors 2 of the Capital District Psychiatric Center, 3 Reverend Jared Van Wagenen IV, of Cobleskill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 5 confirmation -- on the confirmations, all in 6 favor say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Those opposed nay. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 They're confirmed. 11 Next order of business is, let's 12 see, reports of select committees. 13 Communications and reports from 14 state officers. 15 Motions and resolutions. Senator 16 Maltese. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 I believe there are two privileged resolutions 20 at the desk of our Majority Leader's. May I 21 have the titles read on them at this time, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, we 3048 1 may. The Secretary will read the titles of the 2 privileged resolutions. 3 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 4 Resolution by Senator Marino, and others, 5 mourning the death of Reverend Lawrence J. 6 McGinley, S.J., the 26th president and president 7 emeritus of Fordham University; 8 Also legislative Resolution, by 9 Senator Marino, and others, mourning the passing 10 of Reverend James F. Finlay, S.J., 30th 11 president of Fordham University and interim 12 president of LeMoyne College. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 14 resolutions, all in favor say aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Opposed nay. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 The resolutions are adopted. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Maltese. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 22 on behalf of Senator Saland, on page 15, I offer 23 the following amendments to Calendar 334, Senate 3049 1 Print 796. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Amendments are received. 4 SENATOR MALTESE: And ask that 5 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading 6 Calendar. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill 8 will retain its place. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: On my behalf, 10 on page 22, I offer the following amendments to 11 Calendar Number 508, Senate Print 4518, and ask 12 that said bill retain its place on the Third 13 Reading Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 15 objection. 16 SENATOR MALTESE: On behalf of 17 Senator Farley, on page 32, I offer the 18 following amendments to Calendar Number 204, 19 Senate Print 992, and ask that said bill retain 20 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Amendments are received, bill will retain its 23 place. 3050 1 Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Pardon me? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Libous. A little slip there. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Did you say 8 Libeth or Liveth? 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 10 I'd like to put a star -- a sponsor's star on my 11 bill, Calendar Number 494, and it's Senate Bill 12 3917. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor, 15 Senator Libous. 16 Senator Saland. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. Like Senator Libeth, I would like to 19 place a sponsor's star on a bill, page 23, 20 Calendar Number 516, Senate Print 3642. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 22 starred. 23 Senator Present. 3051 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 I move we adopt the Resolution Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 4 those in favor of adopting the Resolution 5 Calendar say aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Those opposed nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The Resolution Calendar is 10 adopted. Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 12 recognize Senator Nozzolio, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Nozzolio. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. I have a privileged resolution at 17 the desk. If you could please read the title. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Secretary will read the title of Senator 20 Nozzolio's resolution. 21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 22 Resolution, by Senator Nozzolio, honoring Dr. 23 Anthony T. Beaudry upon his retirement as 3052 1 superintendent of schools, Moravia Central 2 School District. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 4 resolution, all in favor say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 11 recognize Senator Kuhl, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Kuhl. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Mr. 15 President, there's a privileged resolution, I 16 believe, at the desk in my name. I'd like to 17 move that at this time and ask the clerk to read 18 the last -- read the resolution. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 22 Resolution, by Senator Kuhl, memorializing 23 Governor Mario M. Cuomo to declare 3053 1 storm-stricken Schuyler County a disaster area 2 in the state of New York. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 4 resolution, all those in favor say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Present, we have a 10 substitution. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 31, 12 Senator Volker moves to discharge the Committee 13 on Corporations, Authorities and Commissions 14 from Assembly Bill Number 1941-A and substitute 15 it for the identical Third Reading 1141-A. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 Are there any other motions? 19 Senator Present? 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 let's take up the non-controversial calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Non-controversial, Secretary will read. 3054 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 2 Calendar Number 346, by Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 495, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 8 3583, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 497, by member of the Assembly Gottfried, 21 Assembly Bill Number 6927, Insurance Law, in 22 relation to coverage for cervical cytology 23 screening. 3055 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 499, by Senator Larkin. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay aside for 14 the day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 16 that bill aside for today. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 503, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 4309, 19 Judiciary Law, in relation to lawyer assistance 20 committees. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3056 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 509, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 28, 10 appropriate funds to provide repayment to the 11 Warwick Valley Central School. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 13 a - 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 16 that bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 510, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 19 1194, Executive Law, in relation to out-of-state 20 provider pharmacies. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3057 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: 512, by Senator 9 Johnson, Senate Bill Number 1700, State Finance 10 Law, relation to - 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: 513, by Senator 15 Farley, Senate Bill Number 2469, New York State 16 Printing - 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 515, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 22 2653, Executive Law and the State Finance Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3058 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 517, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 12 3659, establish a moratorium. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 518, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 19 4184, State Finance Law, in relation to 20 providing for the acceptance of bids. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3059 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: 519, by Senator 9 Stafford, Senate Bill Number 4265, State Finance 10 Law, in relation to certain examinations 11 performed by the Comptroller. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 20 two, Senators -- oh. Ayes 56, nays 3, Senators 21 Kuhl, Pataki and Tully recorded in the 22 negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3060 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 520, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 521, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4020, 9 authorize the payment of transportation aid to 10 Poughkeepsie City School District. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 Hold it. There's a local fiscal 14 impact note here at the desk. You can read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3061 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 523, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2551, 3 Highway Law, in relation to definition of the 4 Southern Tier Expressway. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 527, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 17 2062-A, Workers' Compensation Law, in relation 18 to payment of workers' compensation insurance 19 premiums. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 3062 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 534, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 1065, 9 General Municipal Law and the Education Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 11 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. You can 12 read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 535, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 1150, 23 making certain findings and determinations. 3063 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 2 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 3 read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 537, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 14 1432. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 540, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 20 2400-A, authorize the town of Collins to lease 21 facilities. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 23 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 3064 1 read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 541, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 2449, 12 County Law, in relation to investigation of 13 death by coroners. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3065 1 THE SECRETARY: 542, by Senator 2 Present, Senate Bill Number 2537, Real Property 3 Tax Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: 543, by Senator 15 Spano, Senate Bill Number 2557, General 16 Municipal Law, in relation to requiring notice 17 be given concerning a change - 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: 544, by Senator 22 Cook, Senate Bill Number 2702, Real Property Tax 23 Law. 3066 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the -- somebody say lay it aside? Laid aside? 3 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 5 on. Read the last section on Senator Cook's 6 bill. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 13 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 548, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 2957, 18 legalize, validate the issuance of certain bond 19 anticipation notes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 21 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 22 read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3067 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Withdraw the roll, lay it aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 549, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2959, 9 amends Chapter 676 of the Laws of 1978. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 550, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 2972, 22 making certain findings and determinations with 23 respect to certain bond anticipation notes. 3068 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 2 a home rule message at the desk. You can read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 552, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 3107, 14 an act to amend the Village Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3069 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: 553, by Senator 3 Bruno, Senate Bill Number 3281, establish a 4 library district in the town of North Greenbush. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 554, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3064, 17 Real Property Tax Law, in relation to small 18 claim assessment review. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3070 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: 556, by Senator 7 Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3412, Real Property Tax 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 17 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 557, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 3985, 22 General Municipal Law, in relation to voting 23 authority of members. 3071 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 559, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 1813, 13 an act to amend the Tax Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3072 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 560, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 2384, 3 an act to amend the State Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Could we read 9 the title, please. 10 THE SECRETARY: An act in 11 relation to the establishment of bluebird week. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Let it fly. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Results. What is this? 3073 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2 the negative on Calendar Number 560 are Senators 3 Galiber, Leichter, Libous, Pataki, Saland, 4 Smith, Spano and Wright. Ayes 52, nays 8. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 561, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 9 2659, an act to amend the Tax Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 562, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 17 2956, an act to amend the Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 3074 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 563, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 3004, 7 an act to amend the Tax Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. Oh. Oh, there's a local 10 fiscal impact note at the desk. You can read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 564, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3410, 22 an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control 23 Law. 3075 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: 565, by Senator 12 Levy, Senate Bill Number 3692, an act to amend 13 Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3076 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 567, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 4021, 3 an act to amend the Tax Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: 568, by Senator 15 Cook, Senate Bill Number 4156, authorizing the 16 Commissioner of General Services to sell certain 17 land in the town of - 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: 569, by Senator 22 Cook. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 3077 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: 573, by Senator 4 Marino, Senate Bill Number 35... 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Laid aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 577, by member of the Assembly DiNapoli, 10 Assembly Bill Number 583, Environmental 11 Conservation Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 578, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4387. 3078 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside. 4 That's the first time through, 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 let's take up the controversial calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Controversial, Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 11 Calendar Number 346, by Senator Skelos, Senate 12 Bill Number 3860-A, in relation to directing the 13 Crime Victims Board. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Can we have 15 a day on this bill, please? 16 SENATOR PRESENT: No objection. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: On page 22, 20 Calendar Number 509, by Senator Holland, Senate 21 Bill Number 28, appropriate funds to provide 22 repayment to the Warwick Valley Central School. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. 3079 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will 4 Senator Holland yield to one question, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Holland. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'm just 8 curious about something. We passed this last 9 year unanimously, and what I'm concerned about 10 is, is there anything in the budget or in 11 conversations which indicates that these people 12 are going to get this money? I understand you 13 want them to get it. I voted last year and if 14 it got approved in the system, I certainly 15 wasn't opposed to it. I'm not opposed to it 16 this year, but what I'm concerned about is 17 whether or not we, by passing it without any 18 real negotiation, are just misleading these 19 people in some way. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: You're asking 21 me is the money set aside, Senator? No, it's 22 not set aside. 23 SENATOR GOLD: It is set aside. 3080 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: It is not set 2 aside, no, it is not. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, is there 4 anything going on right now which would lead us 5 to believe that this money will actually pass to 6 them? 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Not at this 8 point. I'm sure we can work on that. But the 9 relevant point, I think everybody agrees 10 including the school district, I mean the 11 Education Department and the Comptroller, that a 12 mistake was made. The money was taken away from 13 the schools seven years after they made the 14 handicapped renovations, and somehow the money 15 should be returned to the school, whether it's 16 done in this resolution or whether it's done in 17 the budget next year. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 3081 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 512, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 7 1700, an act to amend the State Finance Law, in 8 relation to the purchase of American-made 9 goods. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Explanation has been asked for by Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 513, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 2469, 19 an act to amend the New York State Printing and 20 Public Documents Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 22 section. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation, 3082 1 please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 3 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 4 Farley. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you. This 6 bill would save the state tax money by requiring 7 that most government documents be printed on the 8 standard 8-1/2 by 11 paper. The cost of this 9 paper is lower than the larger sizes such as the 10 legal size 14-inch paper. In addition, the cost 11 of filing, equipment, storage space should be 12 considerably less. 13 Records administration experts 14 believe that this standardization could reduce 15 paper purchases and record-filing expenditures 16 by as much as 25 percent. This bill is part of 17 an interstate cooperation effort spearheaded by 18 the Association of Records Managers and 19 Administrators. 31 states, including New York, 20 have adopted letter size paper standards in 21 their state court systems. Federal court papers 22 have been letter size paper for over a decade. 23 The bill excludes certain 3083 1 specialized forms such as maps and architectural 2 drawings, and it goes on. Also forms may be of 3 a smaller size. So the bill does not affect 4 driver's licenses, other pocket size documents. 5 The bill saves money by providing 6 that existing paper stocks may be used until the 7 supply is exhausted. The bill is sponsored and 8 supported by the Association of Record Managers, 9 the State Town Clerks Association, the National 10 Federation of Independent Businesses, by General 11 Motors Corporation, Morgan Stanley Company, the 12 Chambers of Commerce of Schenectady, Saratoga, 13 Otsego, Mount Vernon, Waddington and North 14 Syracuse. The bill is sponsored in the Assembly 15 by Assemblywoman Jenkins. 16 Last section. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 would Senator Farley yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He does. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 3084 1 Farley, does this bill apply to the Legislature? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I think it 3 would. That's a good question. I think it 4 would. Yes. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 6 It's your intent that it does apply to the 7 Legislature? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: That's as far as 9 I know. This -- just a second. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't have 11 the New York State Public Printing and Documents 12 Law and I'm not sure that that necessarily 13 applies to the Legislature, but I'm pleased to 14 hear you say that you want to, in this instance 15 at least, have the Legislature be subject to the 16 same rules as everybody else. 17 I just suggest we double check 18 that point because I think it would be 19 embarrassing to find out that this great bill 20 that you've sponsored doesn't apply to your own 21 house, and I understand that's not your intent. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: That's a good 23 point. I'll check on it for sure, and my 3085 1 counsel is not here, but my best judgment is 2 that it does apply because it applies to all 3 public records. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 5 section. 6 Senator Halperin? 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 8 Would Senator Farley yield, please? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Solomon. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: If the desk can 12 just hold up the jackets to one of the bills, I 13 don't want to pose any problems, but might that 14 not be a problem for government functioning in 15 this state because it is not 8-1/2 by 11 and 16 that was just brought up by your comment? 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, this is 18 done. This bill would exclude certain 19 specialized forms such as maps and architectural 20 drawings, computer printouts, forms of different 21 sizes when an automated processing system makes 22 the size more economical and, of course, tax 23 forms. 3086 1 The bill is -- is one that has 2 been in effect in many other states. They're 3 trying to be practical here. For instance, with 4 the bill jacket, and so forth, I wouldn't say 5 that that's a piece of paper that is used as 6 necessarily as a public document, so I don't 7 know that it would apply to that. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Halperin. 10 SENATOR HALPERIN: Senator, I 11 hold in my hand a grid. It's obviously not 12 letter size. It fits a lot of information on 13 it; it's easy to use. If I couldn't use a piece 14 of paper this size to put it on, I'd probably 15 have to have two different pieces of paper to 16 put the same information on. 17 I -- I really don't understand 18 why we need a state statute telling us in 19 government that we -- that we can't use a 20 certain size of paper that might be convenient 21 to us and convenient to the public without 22 amending the law. 23 Now, obviously, you've recognized 3087 1 that it doesn't make sense to have this 2 requirement apply in certain areas, and despite 3 your vast knowledge and your insight and your 4 intellectual capacity and all of those people 5 who've worked on this bill with you, I dare say 6 that there are other examples that are going to 7 come up where it's just not going to be 8 convenient and, for that matter, economical to 9 use letter size paper, and I don't know why we 10 need a state statute telling us, micromanaging 11 us, in what we do either in the Legislature or 12 in agencies. 13 Now, if it is felt that in most 14 instances it is cost-effective to use letter 15 size paper and you would wish to mandate that 16 government use it in all circumstances unless 17 there is reasonable cause not to use it - 18 SENATOR FARLEY: I think you've 19 got reasonable cause in your hand. 20 SENATOR HALPERIN: But where does 21 the bill say that? It says, I mean I can go 22 through, you tell me where in this bill it says 23 that I'm allowed to create something for - 3088 1 SENATOR FARLEY: This is a 2 uniform piece of legislation which -- which has 3 been adopted in 30-some states. It's a piece of 4 legislation that is reasonable and it's the 5 whole purpose of it is -- you're a distinguished 6 lawyer. You know that the New York State court 7 system for the past, well, anyway the federal 8 courts have had it for over a decade and the New 9 York State court system has it now. 10 All we're trying to do is bring 11 New York State -- this is a cost saving device 12 that has been supported by everybody that -- in 13 the free world. 14 SENATOR HALPERIN: All right, 15 thank you. Well, Mr. President, on the bill. I 16 guess there's one person in the free world - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Halperin on the bill. 19 SENATOR HALPERIN: -- at least 20 who is not convinced of the wisdom of this very 21 restrictive legislation. 22 I don't question the fact that 23 there is waste that should be eliminated, that 3089 1 in many circumstances using smaller pieces of 2 paper would be advisable and trying to 3 standardize the use of paper would be advisable, 4 but I also feel that this type of government 5 mandate is -- is uncalled for and that we could, 6 by legislation, encourage the use of 7 standardized pieces of paper without requiring 8 us to come back to the Legislature every time we 9 come up with a -- with a use of paper that isn't 10 standardized. 11 I point out again, I can't 12 imagine any advantage to trying to squeeze this 13 onto a -- it's small enough as it is, the 14 printing, to try to squeeze this onto an eight 15 and a -- an eight or an 8-1/2 by 11 piece of 16 paper. It just doesn't make sense, and it -- I 17 don't understand why we're trying to do this by 18 statute, and not everyone in the free world 19 agrees because the Office of General Services, 20 which is responsible for managing the operation 21 of state government generally, opposes this 22 legislation because they think that it will be 23 more costly to try to switch over to certain 3090 1 systems and certain circumstances and I think 2 they know what they're talking about. 3 Now, once again, if we can 4 encourage something and promote it through - 5 and require people to justify why they're not 6 going to -- to go along with a system that may 7 make sense, that's one thing, but this bill goes 8 beyond that, and I don't think it makes sense to 9 try to micromanage government through a legis... 10 through legislative fiat in this particular 11 manner. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Smith, on the bill. 14 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Will Senator Farley yield for 17 just two questions? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Farley, do you yield? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 does. 23 SENATOR SMITH: I'm a little 3091 1 perplexed. Do you know the cost of a ream of 2 8-1/2 by 11 paper? 3 SENATOR FARLEY: No, I don't know 4 it off the top of my head. 5 SENATOR SMITH: Do you know the 6 cost of a ream of 8-1/2 by 14? 7 SENATOR FARLEY: I know that the 8 cost of 8-1/2 by 11 paper, which is standard 9 paper is cheaper than the 14-inch paper and 10 unusual size paper, and it's sold by the pound 11 incidentally. 12 SENATOR SMITH: It's sold by the 13 pound. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 15 SENATOR SMITH: But when you buy 16 Xerox paper, you can buy it by the pound or you 17 can buy it by the ream or you can buy it by 18 weight. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: It's also by 20 weight, 16-pound paper, 20-pound paper, 25-pound 21 bond. There's all different prices. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Farley, 23 is it not that a pound is the quality of the 3092 1 paper, that they rate it by? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, yes. 3 SENATOR SMITH: Not by the cost. 4 I mean a ream of paper is usually five hundred 5 sheets; is that correct? 6 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Well, the last 8 time I purchased a ream, I think the difference 9 was somewhere around 50 cents, but if you -- if 10 you use a ream of 8-1/2 by 11 and you need to 11 use two sheets versus one sheet of the 8-1/2 by 12 14 to make up for the difference, wouldn't that 13 still be more costly because you'd only have the 14 advantage of using 250 sheets versus five 15 hundred sheets? So I'm at a loss. Can you tell 16 me where the savings is? 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, it -- this 18 is -- this legislation has been in effect and 19 the National Association of Record Managers and 20 Administrators have said that this can save as 21 much as 25 percent in the cost of paper. Do you 22 know what a blizzard of paper New York State 23 uses? 3093 1 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Farley, 2 may I make a suggestion that you buy them a new 3 calculator? 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 9 Farley. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Senator, 15 I just got the law that you're amending and 16 while I have got it just at the moment when the 17 clerk called the last section, it doesn't seem 18 to me that this law will apply to the 19 Legislature, so I just -- you might wish to, if 20 -- since your intent was to have it apply to 21 the Legislature, you may wish to lay the bill 22 aside for a day. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't wish to 3094 1 do that. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: And get it 3 straightened out. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: As I'm reading 7 the law, it says section 3 of the New York State 8 Printing and Public Documents Law is amended. 9 Now, when you're talking about New York State 10 printing and public documents most of the public 11 documents that we use here are -- most of -- at 12 least the Legislature has public documents. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 14 excuse me. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter, is it your intention -- may I ask you 17 to direct - 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 19 Farley. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's a 21 little difficult to hear, so may I ask you to 22 direct the questions you're asking the Senator 23 to yield to through the Chair, please. 3095 1 Senator Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Senator, 3 if you would yield, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Farley, do you yield? 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 yields. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I call your 10 attention to Section 3 which says, the 11 Commissioner of General Services shall have 12 general supervision over the letting of all 13 contracts for public printing to be provided 14 herein. So I think that that section, and again 15 I'm reading it quickly, seems to apply to those 16 contracts let by the Commissioner of General 17 Services. 18 My understanding is that the 19 legislative branch lets its own contracts, makes 20 its own arrangement. I think they'd be sort of 21 aghast if they felt they would be -- were 22 subject to the control of the Commissioner of 23 General Services. So on a quick reading, I 3096 1 would say this is not applicable to the 2 Legislature. 3 I -- I just also wanted to say 4 that I thought Senator Halperin made some good 5 points, but if you're going to have this and as 6 you said you intended it, it should apply to the 7 Legislature. I -- I believe that it does not, 8 and you may just wish to take a look at it and 9 make sure that it does, if that's your 10 intent. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, the point 12 of it is, I don't see where the Legislature is 13 excluded. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 15 section. 16 Senator Tully, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 18 would Senator Farley yield to a few questions? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Farley, would you yield? 21 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, Senator 22 Tully. 23 SENATOR TULLY: Senator Farley, 3097 1 did you know that this legislation has been 2 recommended by the Albany Chapter of the 3 Association of Record Managers and 4 Administrators? 5 SENATOR FARLEY: I was aware of 6 that. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Did you know it's 8 a part of a national efforts by the Association 9 of Record Managers and Administrators to 10 eliminate legal forms? 11 SENATOR FARLEY: I was aware of 12 that. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Did you know that 14 31 states, including New York, have now adopted 15 letter size paper in their state court systems? 16 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct. 17 SENATOR TULLY: Did you know 18 that, since 1983, the federal court papers have 19 been on letter size paper? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: That's over ten 21 years. 22 SENATOR TULLY: And I know 23 because you know all these things, you proposed 3098 1 this legislation. Thank you, Senator Farley. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: It's a great 3 piece of legislation. It's even more 4 significant than bluebird week, I tell you that. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 6 section. 7 Senator Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: I just want to 9 inform the house that I have a bill in one of 10 the committees and if Senator Tully would ask me 11 questions about it, I could get it out on the 12 floor too, I think. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59 -- ayes 21 58, nays 2, Senators Halperin and Leichter 22 recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3099 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 517, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 4 3659. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 6 THE SECRETARY: Establish a 7 moratorium on state regulations, establish a 8 working task force. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 12 Johnson. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 520, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 18 3304, Education Law, in relation to instruction 19 in the display, use and proper respect for the 20 flag. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3100 1 act shall take effect - 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explana 3 tion. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An 5 explanation has been asked for by Senator 6 Montgomery. 7 Senator Maltese. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes, Mr. 9 President. This bill is an act to amend the 10 Education Law in relation to instruction in 11 display, use and proper respect for the flag. 12 The bill requires the instruction 13 of the proper respect, and the way that it seeks 14 to do so is to incorporate sections 170 to 177 15 of Title 36 of the United States Code as part of 16 our Education Law. 17 The -- the present Education Law 18 does not provide for a minimum as far as what 19 instruction on proper respect shall be, and an 20 inquiry to the New York City Board of Education 21 and the New York State Department of Education 22 indicated that they do not have a set curriculum 23 as to what shall be included in said instruction 3101 1 that's presently in the Education Law. 2 Mr. President, this bill was - 3 was debated last year and passed this house by a 4 vote of 59 to 1 with one absence. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Jones. 7 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President, 8 would the sponsor yield to a question? 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 sponsor yields. 12 SENATOR JONES: Are you saying, 13 Senator Maltese, that you have evidence that 14 this is not occurring now in schools? 15 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, my office 16 -- no, not that -- not that -- not that it's 17 not occurring. What we have ascertained is that 18 they had no curriculum and no mandate. For 19 instance, we contacted a Mr. Bob Turta of the 20 New York City Schools Board of Education. He 21 indicated that they had no set curriculum as far 22 as the instruction and a Joann Larson of the 23 Department of Education who said that, while the 3102 1 instruction of patriotism and citizenship is 2 required, there is no specific flag or national 3 anthem instruction as indicated by the Election 4 Law. 5 SENATOR JONES: On the bill, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Jones on the bill. 9 SENATOR JONES: I would like, I 10 guess, certainly to speak in defense of the 11 teachers in Monroe County, having come from 26 12 years in the educational system. Clearly, this 13 is going on and many, many hours are devoted to 14 this, and I certainly would not be against it, 15 but I think I just need to make the point that a 16 lot of instruction goes on about the flag from 17 kindergarten on, through all of our schools and 18 if it's missing in New York City, I'm certainly 19 sorry about that. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Would 23 Senator Maltese yield for a question? 3103 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Maltese, do you yield? He does. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator, I 5 note that your bill directs the state Ed. 6 Department to develop this. Did this request 7 come from state Ed., I'm just curious? 8 SENATOR MALTESE: The original 9 request for the bill? My record doesn't 10 indicate that, Senator. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: O.K. I have 12 spoken to state Ed. regarding other kinds of 13 curriculum issues, and whenever they have to 14 develop a new curriculum, they generally need 15 more funding. So I'm just wondering, is there 16 any -- I don't see any funding attached to your 17 -- any fiscal indication over here at least 18 that's not on my file. 19 I don't know if you -- if this 20 requires more funding or if this -- if they will 21 just do this out of their current funds, and how 22 does this relate to the social studies 23 curriculum that they're now in the process of 3104 1 revising, the curriculum of inclusion and all of 2 that? 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 4 in response to Senator Montgomery's question, we 5 indicated that it would have no fiscal impact 6 since it would seem that this simply provides a 7 guide to the teachers and the school districts 8 as to what should be included in the 9 curriculum. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 13 President, I have just one further question for 14 Senator Maltese. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 yields. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: We're now 18 talking about a curriculum that tries to 19 inculcate many different cultures and nations 20 and groups, and I'm just wondering if your flag 21 -- if you intend for this to be part of a move 22 to try to enlarge our -- our understanding of 23 other nations, other cultures? Will we be 3105 1 talking about the flag of Puerto Rico, the flag 2 of Mexico, you know, the flag as it rerelates to 3 the United Nations, and do you intend for this 4 to be more than just a very small curriculum 5 dedicated to simply the American flag or is this 6 part of a larger agenda to be included with the 7 expansion of the social studies curriculum that 8 the state Ed. is involved in? 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 10 I didn't have that in mind when -- originally 11 when I sponsored the bill, and it seems to me 12 that an education in social studies or history 13 or geography in some cases, knowledge of other 14 countries, is very important, like -- and 15 certainly our boards of education should include 16 such studies. 17 At the same time, I believe we 18 have an obligation to teach in our country 19 schools, the -- about the United States flag and 20 the proper respect and traditions of the United 21 States flag and about the Pledge of Allegiance 22 and the manner of delivery, the National Anthem, 23 the proper response to the Star Spangled 3106 1 Banner. 2 It seems to me that evidence 3 indicates that at many social events and sports 4 events giving the benefit of the doubt to many 5 of the people that are present at these events 6 that they do not act in a proper manner of 7 respect for our country's flag. So I guess 8 that's a round-about way of saying that I don't 9 think this would be at all harmful. I think 10 it's an important building block or foundation 11 block, but this bill addresses itself only to 12 our country's flag, but I certainly would have 13 no personal objection to an extension in any of 14 those courses to teach about the flags of other 15 countries in addition to the teaching of the 16 respect for our flag. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 Mr. President, just briefly on 20 the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Montgomery, on the bill. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I think that 3107 1 Senator Maltese has made an extremely important 2 note for our record of his support for teaching 3 about flags internationally, and I certainly 4 would like to offer that we include that, extend 5 the bill at some point, amend it to include that 6 -- that idea and that concept, and with that I 7 will vote for the bill because I'm certainly not 8 opposed to teaching about the American flag, but 9 I do want to make sure that we're not narrowing 10 our focus and understanding as it relates to 11 young people, but rather broadening it so that 12 they begin to have an appreciation and 13 understanding of other nations in this world. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Smith. 17 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 Would Senator Maltese yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Maltese, 23 since this is the state of New York and we're 3108 1 teaching about the American flag, will there be 2 some provisions in this curriculum to deal with 3 the placement of the state flag versus the 4 American flag? 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, Mr. 6 President, I believe that the U. S. Code refers 7 only to the placement of the United States flag, 8 but it does at the same time refer to, and I'll 9 use the term advisedly, subordinate flags which 10 would be flags of states, and it would refer to 11 them. So the instruction would not zero in on 12 the placement or respect for the flag of New 13 York State, but simply concentrates on the flag 14 of the United States. 15 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, will the sponsor yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 sponsor yields. 3109 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 2 guess I'm intrigued by the answer that you gave 3 earlier that there is as no fiscal impact of 4 this bill. There's no anticipated fiscal 5 impact. 6 SENATOR MALTESE: There's no 7 anticipated fiscal impact, no. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. But 9 someone, as I understand it, as I read the bill 10 the Commissioner of Education is going to have 11 to revise the curriculum; isn't that correct? 12 SENATOR MALTESE: My 13 understanding is that the curriculum, Mr. 14 President, that the curriculum itself already 15 includes areas that this would fit into without 16 a revision of the curriculum, and this wording 17 would incorporate completely the wording of the 18 United States Code, so it would be available and 19 possibly to many social studies teachers in 20 history and social studies at this point would 21 already be part of their instruction. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, if the 23 speaker -- the sponsor would yield to one other 3110 1 question? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He does. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it my 5 understanding, Senator, that this is already 6 mandated by federal law; is that correct, by the 7 United States Code? 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. This 9 portion, as it relates to the United States 10 flag. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So all of our 12 school districts are required to do this by 13 federal law and all we're doing is duplicating 14 then the federal law, is that correct? 15 SENATOR MALTESE: I think the 16 problem is, Mr. President, that while we have 17 specifically in our Education Law the, if you 18 would, mandate to provide instruction, that 19 mandate does not include the specific 20 instruction, and I believe in the U.S. Code, 21 this would be simply a guide to follow for 22 proper respect of the flag rather than a mandate 23 on local education departments. 3111 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But is it my 2 understanding, again through you, Mr. President, 3 if the Senator would yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Dollinger. He will yield. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's my 7 understanding we're taking the federal guideline 8 and turning it into a mandate because we're 9 requiring the Commissioner to do it in this 10 case. 11 SENATOR MALTESE: All we're 12 requiring the Commissioner to do is include this 13 in the instruction that he would give as a 14 curriculum guide to the teachers and local 15 school districts. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And again 17 through you, Mr. President, one other question. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 continues to yield. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What would 21 the consequence be, Senator, if the school 22 districts did not follow the curriculum 23 guideline or mandate set out by the Commissioner 3112 1 of Education? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: I -- Mr. 3 President, I don't know of any consequence. I 4 don't know that we should include this as under 5 the Penal Law or make it a misdemeanor. I don't 6 know whether I would be for that, but I do 7 believe that we in the Legislature have a duty 8 and an obligation to set certain guidelines, 9 certain norms for respect for our country's flag 10 and this is a better way than most to do it. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One quick 14 comment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 16 bill. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with 18 Senator Maltese that this is a good mandate, but 19 it's a mandate nonetheless. We're telling our 20 school districts what to do. As I see it, we're 21 ordering the Commissioner to do some more work 22 over in the Department of Education, that little 23 building across the street that many people in 3113 1 this chamber may feel is filled with too many 2 people already. We are going to tell them to do 3 more. We are going to tell our school districts 4 to do more. We're going to tell them to revise 5 the curriculum. We're going to tell them to 6 spend local taxpayer dollars to do it. 7 It may be wise in this case. I'm 8 going to vote for it. But I'm going to point 9 out that we passed a bill earlier that said no 10 more unfunded mandates. My suggestion is that 11 this is one under a guise of no fiscal impact of 12 actually having a fiscal impact. I think in 13 this case, and I agree with Senator Maltese it's 14 probably well warranted because of the important 15 civic lesson that underlies it, but don't think 16 for a second that it isn't a mandate. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Markowitz. 19 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator 20 Maltese, I just have a question to ask of you. 21 The American flag represents an 22 awful lot to -- to most residents of our 23 country. Does the American flag -- would you 3114 1 agree that the American flag represents the 2 collective contributions of our forebears? 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Sure. 4 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: And the flag 5 not only represents the best of our past but 6 also represents the challenge of tomorrow; I 7 think you'd probably agree with that statement? 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 9 Senator Markowitz waxes eloquent. 10 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Let me ask 11 you a question. With the proper instruction in 12 the classrooms and a beautiful flag, with 50 13 kids in a classroom that can hardly hear their 14 teachers, with classroom space being destroyed 15 or in a terrible condition, decrepid condition, 16 in cold classrooms with inadequate teachers, 17 inadequate supervision, with inadequate 18 supplies, do you think that the flag is being 19 presented in the best way for the learning of 20 the children under conditions that exist today 21 in the city of New York, for instance? 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 23 if Senator Markowitz chooses the introduction of 3115 1 this bill as a vehicle to point to the fact that 2 there are inadequacies and inequities in our 3 city of New York, in our state of New York and 4 in our educational system, I applaud it and I 5 would agree that there certainly are 6 inadequacies and certainly inequities as far as 7 our educational system is concerned. 8 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you, 9 Senator, really, and I appreciate it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Markowitz, on the bill. 12 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I appreciate 13 Senator Maltese raising or responding to some of 14 the concerns I had. I'd like to see the same 15 passion, Senator, that I see occasionally from 16 you, flashes of your passion as it relates to 17 upholding yesterday, and I'd like to hear that 18 same passion exhibited for tomorrow, and that is 19 that while the teaching of respect for the flag 20 is certainly important, it is no more important 21 than many other issues confronting education 22 today. 23 In fact, I would tell you that I 3116 1 can think of many other issues that, if our 2 society was able to provide the kind of 3 education that the children of our city and 4 state need so desperately, in fact we owe them 5 so very, very much, that the respect for the 6 flag would be enhanced perhaps even without a 7 mandate to the various school districts to have 8 to do. It would be something that would come 9 from the heart. 10 I really believe that, something 11 that they would be eager to do, but it seems to 12 me I hope that Senator Maltese and those of you 13 who have a very similar opinion as exemplified 14 by this bill will also in the coming months on 15 the floor of the Senate talk about some of the 16 real concerns, and I mean that, Senator, the 17 real concerns and challenges facing education, 18 particularly in many of our districts throughout 19 our city and state, the real needs which this 20 bill unfortunately doesn't even begin to talk 21 about. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 DeFrancisco. 3117 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: A couple 2 points in response to some of the questions. 3 Senator Jones mentioned that 4 Rochester does these things admirably. I just 5 want to mention that there is still a need for 6 this because we had a situation in one of the 7 high schools in Syracuse where some students 8 chose to sit for the Pledge of Allegiance to the 9 flag. Others choose to pledge, which I guess is 10 part of what the Constitution, at least the 11 interpretation of the Constitution requires. 12 However, there was some disrup 13 tion or there was a difficulty that one group 14 was in some way mocking the other group and the 15 response from the school district, or at least 16 that principal, was to suspend the Pledge of 17 Allegiance to the Flag. 18 Now, I'm not quite sure whether 19 that's the appropriate approach, so I think that 20 if we're reaffirming this by this legislation it 21 might send a message to those who might 22 otherwise take it more lightly than it should 23 be. 3118 1 As far as the flag of Puerto Rico 2 and the flag of Mexico and the flag of whomever 3 else, I think the fact of this legislation isn't 4 to teach social studies. I mean that's another 5 curriculum. This is -- happens to be the United 6 States where we all live, and I think that that 7 was the intent of it, to show respect for the 8 flag of our country. We can always educate on 9 every other country and show respect in other 10 ways and teach about other countries, but I 11 think that missed the point of this 12 legislation. 13 As far as fiscal implications, 14 with all the talents we have at the state board, 15 State Department of Education and with the very 16 few items here on this list that would have to 17 develop, be developed into a curriculum, I can't 18 imagine that there would be any fiscal 19 implication, and it would be any labor 20 whatsoever for anybody, even in this room to 21 take ten minutes out to establish a curriculum. 22 So I can't imagine where there truly is a fiscal 23 implication. 3119 1 This isn't the mandate that we're 2 trying to stop, this type of mandate. It's the 3 one that costs money. We've got plenty of 4 talent to do this type of legislation, so I rise 5 in support of it. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Connor. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 I'm certainly going to support 12 this legislation, Senator Maltese, but let me 13 say I -- maybe I'm old-fashioned and 14 conservative. Some of -- some subjects of 15 instruction, I think, are best done in the 16 family, by the family, and I think the kind of 17 respect and etiquette toward the flag ought to 18 be taught, even families ought to be encouraged 19 to teach their children, and I find today unlike 20 many, many years ago, many, many adults who 21 really don't, and I don't think they mean to be 22 deliberately disrespectful and certainly don't 23 have conscientious objections, but they really 3120 1 don't know what flag etiquette is. 2 I have noticed something in my 3 years in public life. Our colleagues who serve 4 in the U. S. Congress, and I'm talking about 5 various events where they start with the 6 National Anthem or the flag goes by with the 7 parade, they seem to know what the proper 8 etiquette is and it would not surprise me to 9 find out, and I don't know that when one is 10 elected to Congress as part of their orientation 11 that perhaps as the United States officials, 12 they are given some guidance on what proper flag 13 etiquette is. 14 Regrettably, in this very city of 15 Albany as well as throughout the state at 16 various public events, I find there are public 17 officials, local and state, who do not accord 18 the proper respect to the flag according to the 19 rules of etiquette with respect to the flag and 20 I always chalk that up to ignorance that perhaps 21 people don't know they're supposed to salute the 22 flag when it passes by the reviewing stand, when 23 all the elected officials and mayors and what 3121 1 have you are up there on the stand or perhaps 2 they don't know that at certain times you salute 3 the flag and not just stand at attention and 4 they don't know how to salute the flag when not 5 in a uniform, and these are all set standards 6 and I think it's admirable. 7 I suspect though, Senator 8 Maltese, that perhaps in your bill, I can not 9 imagine that the law presently mandates a daily 10 salute to the flag and pledge of allegiance and 11 I can't imagine and, you know, I've been 12 surprised before, but it's difficult for me to 13 imagine a teacher that would lead a class in the 14 salute to the flag and the recitation of the 15 pledge that wouldn't concurrently instruct the 16 students on the proper behavior doing that, and 17 I -- I don't address those who are conscientious 18 objectors. I respect their rights and I've 19 actually seen on some occasions when I think the 20 person who, because of a religious conviction, 21 refrains from saluting the flag is being far 22 more respectful in quietly sitting in place not 23 talking, not disturbing anyone else, than some 3122 1 of the people who stood but chatted with their 2 neighbor or whatever during the National Anthem 3 or during a presentation of the colors. 4 So the legislation is good, but I 5 just wish we could educate adults more. I 6 suspect that's just because there is no public 7 service effort on -- in the media to inform a 8 generation or two of adults of what the proper 9 behavior is. I really don't think, when they 10 are disrespectful, they mean to be. I think 11 it's ignorance, so perhaps some more instruction 12 in schools will be a good thing. 13 I just remind my colleagues that 14 very often people in positions such as ours in 15 our state do set the example at a parade or a 16 dinner or an event and, if we set a poor 17 example, in fact we can't expect children or 18 adults to accord the proper respect to the 19 flag. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Stachowski. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would 23 Senator Connor yield to a question? 3123 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly, 2 Senator. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, did 4 you know there is a gentleman whose job it is to 5 travel with a large flag that's basically kept 6 in a container the year round and he goes to a 7 number of special events each year and when he 8 goes with this large flag and they present it in 9 public, he goes through a whole speech on proper 10 etiquette on the flag and why people should 11 remain standing during the entire National 12 Anthem, and why it's so offensive when, at 13 sporting events, people start cheering part way 14 through the National Anthem, and what the 15 reasoning is for why they should wait until the 16 whole anthem is finished before they start 17 cheering? Did you -- were you aware of this? 18 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I wasn't, 19 Senator, and I think we could, taking your word 20 for the existence of such a person, I think we 21 could use dozens more. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: But there is 23 such a person, and he travels throughout the 3124 1 country stopping at X amount of stops through 2 out the year, and the flag when it's not 3 traveling with him, is kept stored in a very 4 magnificent wooden box, that's stored on Old 5 Ironsides in Boston and an interesting fact and 6 in honor of your passing this bill, Senator 7 Maltese, you may like to invite this gentleman 8 to either Albany or to your district and have 9 him, you know, get permission to put this large 10 flag up and go through his whole presentation so 11 that not only the children who would be 12 fortunate enough to take this class but maybe 13 some of the adults in your district that forgot 14 and maybe didn't teach their children and, 15 therefore, the need for this about saluting the 16 flag, they didn't teach them at home, so that 17 they can rekindle those memories and learn again 18 why all this etiquette and flag etiquette should 19 be done. Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator 23 DeFrancisco yield to one question? 3125 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Sure. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 does yield. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I really 5 didn't understand your analogy. Apparently 6 there is a school in Syracuse where there was 7 some dispute or whatever and the principal, you 8 say, suspended the pledge. Is it your 9 understanding that, if this bill becomes law, 10 that that will mandate that the principal re 11 store the pledge to the school? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, not at 13 all, Mr. President. 14 I think the point was made by 15 Senator Jones that we already do this in schools 16 in Rochester and the proper etiquette and the 17 proper teaching is taking place and I gave that 18 as an example to show that I don't believe that 19 some teachers, at least in the district that I'm 20 in, know the proper response when there is a 21 situation pertaining to this type of event, and 22 I think that was the wrong response and had 23 there been teaching and a curriculum, maybe that 3126 1 teacher would have known the proper response. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 6 shall have become law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 537, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 15 1432, General Municipal Law and the Town Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will the 17 Senator yield to a question? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 543, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 2557, 23 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 3127 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 2 section. 3 Explanation has been asked for. 4 Senator Spano. 5 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 6 this bill amends the General Municipal Law. It 7 requires that residents -- it would give -- the 8 residents would have an opportunity to have some 9 input into the closure and into the removal and 10 relocation of a fire department or fire company 11 by requiring that a municipality in the state 12 would have to give a 60-day public notice and a 13 public hearing. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays one, 22 Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the negative. 23 3128 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 548, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 2957, 5 to legalize and validate the issuance of certain 6 bond anticipation notes. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 8 question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 10 a home rule message. Lay the bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 561, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 13 2659, an act to amend the Tax Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 3129 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 568, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number - 3 (There was a pause in the 4 proceedings. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 568, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4156. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Cook. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 11 for today. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside for the day. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 569, by Senator Cook. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 17 for the day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 19 aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 573, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 3588, 22 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation 23 to discretionary release on parole. 3130 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside for the day. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 578, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4387, 5 authorize the Commissioner of Environmental 6 Conservation to lease certain state land. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have one 8 day on this? 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 11 aside for the day. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 may we stand at ease for a moment. 14 (Whereupon, at 7:45 p.m., the 15 Senate was at ease. ) 16 (Whereupon, at 8:15 p.m., Senate 17 reconvened. ) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 19 will come to order. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 22 I would like to call an immediate meeting of the 23 Rules Committee in Room 433A. Room 433A, 3131 1 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 4 Committee in Room 433A. Room 433A. 5 Senate will stand at ease. 6 (Whereupon, at 8:15 p.m., the 7 Senate was at ease. ) 8 (Whereupon, at 9:20 p.m., Senate 9 reconvened. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 11 will come to order. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 may we have a report from a standing committee. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a 16 report at the desk. 17 Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 19 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 20 following Senate resolution for immediate 21 adoption: Senate Resolution Number 1272, by 22 Senator Marino and others, declaring the 23 invitation by the Assembly to a joint session 3132 1 for the purpose of filling a vacancy in the 2 Office of State Comptroller to be without 3 foundation in law and to declare any actions 4 purported to be taken pursuant thereto to be 5 null, void and without legal effect. 6 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Direct to 8 third reading. 9 Explanation has been asked for. 10 Senator Marino. 11 SENATOR MARINO: Mr. President. 12 As I'm sure the members of this house can 13 attest, I have a great deal of respect for the 14 presiding officer of this house and, of course, 15 my good friend and colleague on the other side 16 of this house, the Speaker of the Assembly, but 17 what is about to happen tomorrow, at least from 18 what I have been told by the Speaker, at 10:30 19 a.m. either a session or a meeting is going to 20 take place to appoint a Comptroller of the state 21 of New York; and should that happen, that 22 session or meeting would be clearly illegal and 23 improper since it does not take into 3133 1 consideration the will of the majority of the 2 elected officials of this house. 3 Notice by the Lieutenant Governor 4 and the Speaker by themselves is insufficient as 5 a matter of law to convene any kind of a session 6 or meeting between these two houses. We raised 7 this problem during the period of 8 reapportionment, you may recall, when the 9 Lieutenant Governor took it upon himself to 10 accept process on behalf of the Majority, and 11 more will be said about that at a future date. 12 Despite all of that and despite 13 the embarrassment of having to receive in my 14 mail this notice about a meeting of my house 15 with the Assembly from Stan Lundine and Saul 16 Weprin, we contacted the Speaker and said, We 17 don't want to upset the apple cart. We want to 18 talk about this. Maybe we can do it legally. 19 Now, we understand, Mr. Speaker, 20 that you have proposed a constitutional 21 amendment to cure the defects in the present law 22 regarding how a Comptroller or Attorney General 23 would be appointed in the future, and we 3134 1 understand that you would like a board rather 2 than a sole trustee to make decisions concerning 3 the pension rights of workers in this state, and 4 we agree. We may not agree on language, but we 5 agree that something on that nature has to be 6 done, and we would like to discuss it, and we'd 7 do it now. So we'd be willing to sit down and 8 discuss these matters, these bills with you, if 9 you'll give us more time until Monday to get to 10 this, and then we would join you on a concurrent 11 resolution on this very subject. 12 The Speaker said no, he would not 13 consider it even though it was his idea and even 14 though he proposed it, on both those issues. 15 How did I know this meeting was going to take 16 place tomorrow? Because I got a call Monday 17 afternoon and was advised. Not told that we 18 would discuss it but was advised that the 19 meeting would take place at 10:30 on Wednesday 20 morning and that the Assembly was going to pass 21 a resolution to that effect. 22 This is a shabby way, Mr. 23 President, to deal with the Majority in this 3135 1 house, and I resent the fact that the presiding 2 officer of this house has again taken it upon 3 himself to speak for all of us without legal 4 authority. We have been very reasonable. We 5 have discussed and tried to make the Assembly 6 understand that the people should have a voice 7 in a matter as important as electing a 8 Comptroller for the state of New York. 9 Certainly we do it in special elections for 10 Assemblymen, for state Senators. Why not for 11 Comptrollers and Attorney Generals in this 12 state? 13 So our position is a reasonable 14 one. There is always the possibility, beyond 15 this appointment, that the Attorney General of 16 this state might decide to resign for some 17 reason and we would have to deal with that, and 18 it seemed important to us that we cure the 19 defects in the system now. We've all talked 20 about a board to deal with the $50 million in 21 pension funds. We have a four-member board, the 22 Assembly has a thirteen-member board, but we 23 have all agreed that having one single person 3136 1 make these important decisions was wrong. So to 2 suggest that we discuss a new approach seems to 3 me is reasonable. 4 To suggest, Mr. President, that 5 to give us one week from the time that a nominee 6 has been suggested to us, namely Monday, to 7 discuss these changes, these important changes 8 on behalf of the people of this state, seems 9 reasonable to me, Mr. President. We take longer 10 to discuss the nominees for board of trustees of 11 hospitals in this house, and we are discussing 12 the appointment of the Comptroller of the state 13 of New York. 14 So we feel that we've been very 15 responsible. We feel that we have set forth 16 bills that are reasonable, and we feel that it's 17 unconscionable for the Speaker to say, "It's my 18 way or no way," and that's what he's done. 19 The newspapers have been 20 reporting that it's one person making this 21 appointment, and that the Democrats have agreed 22 to a unit rule here. Whoever it is that the 23 Speaker wants that's who it's going to be, and 3137 1 it's going to be unanimous because, God forbid, 2 we permit Republicans into the process. Okay. 3 If that's the way it's going to be, we say let's 4 try to improve on a process that is flawed, that 5 you accept as flawed, that we accept as flawed, 6 for the future. And we're told, "No way." 7 Historically, I would point out 8 that four times in the history of this state a 9 Comptroller has been appointed, a statewide 10 officer has been appointed, since 1849, by 11 concurrent resolution of both houses. That does 12 not exist as we convene here this evening. We 13 do not have a concurrent resolution agreed upon 14 by both houses. We won't have at 10:30 tomorrow 15 morning; and, therefore, any meeting at 10:30 16 tomorrow morning is illegal and improper to 17 appoint a Comptroller of this great state. 18 We can cure this defect, but the 19 Speaker doesn't care to listen. And, 20 unfortunately, we have to drag the process out 21 because of his intransigence, and I regret 22 that. I would like to see an orderly process. 23 We're not permitted to have an orderly process. 3138 1 And so, Mr. President, I suggest 2 that what's best for the people of this state is 3 that the process go forward legally, that it be 4 done by concurrent resolution of both houses, 5 and that we as a house be given an opportunity 6 which we have not had -- I'll say it again - 7 which we have not had to discuss the rules for 8 such an election. Who shall be nominated? How 9 shall a vote be taken? How long can people 10 speak on such an important matter? None of 11 these matters have been discussed by the Speaker 12 and I, nor have I been given the opportunity to 13 discuss the rules for such a gathering, and all 14 we have asked is for an opportunity to discuss 15 the rules and regulations that would go into 16 such a session and the opportunity to pass 17 meaningful legislation that both houses have 18 said is needed. 19 And so we will not permit, Mr. 20 President, as a precedent the Speaker and the 21 Lieutenant Governor to get together and convene 22 a session or meeting of these houses because 23 it's illegal. It's unconstitutional. It's 3139 1 improper. It's embarrassing to this great 2 house. It's uncalled for, and it's 3 unreasonable. 4 For that reason, and all of the 5 aforesaid reasons, Mr. President, I suggest that 6 we immediately pass this resolution. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Marchi on the resolution. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President. 11 The opportunity to address issues that were 12 adequately spread on the record concerning 13 aspects that are associated with the 14 responsibilities that will be entrusted to the 15 successor Comptroller in a -- if this was a more 16 fortuitous opportunity offered to all of us to 17 engage in the kind of productive dialogue 18 addressing those very issues that have been 19 recognized by the Assembly already by their own 20 statements and their own positions and by the 21 general consensus that this is something that 22 should be addressed, to ask that this -- now 23 that we have this focus, this opportunity, that 3140 1 this is an ideal circumstance to present the 2 resolution, to present the full array of 3 considerations that will go with the conduct of 4 this office. It does not affect the voting 5 power of anybody. The vote will be taken and 6 the candidate -- the candidates that are 7 presented and command the majority of both 8 houses will be our next Comptroller. 9 But to seize an opportunity and 10 urge this as being a very fortunate starting 11 point for the resolution of the larger issues 12 that are involved should not be taken as a 13 lesser respect. I would say that this is a 14 finer respect and a stronger interest in 15 approaching the entire problem associated with 16 the action that is going to be undertaken, and I 17 just will review very briefly the sections of 18 this resolution. 19 Whereas,... the Legislature shall 20 provide for the filling of vacancies in the 21 Office of Comptroller and Attorney General. 22 Whereas, Public Officers Law 23 section 41 provides, "When a vacancy occurs or 3141 1 exists, other than by removal, in the Office of 2 Comptroller or Attorney General, or a 3 resignation of either such officer to take 4 effect at any future day shall have been made 5 while the Legislature is in session, the two 6 houses..." -- the two houses, Mr. President. It 7 doesn't say the members of the Legislature. It 8 says the two houses, and we all know or we 9 should know by this time that the two houses 10 consist of the Senate and the Assembly. We all 11 know that. So that we are saying in a shorthand 12 fashion two houses, the Senate and the Assembly, 13 "... by joint ballot shall appoint a person to 14 fill such actual or prospective vacancy." 15 This is the constitution of the 16 state of New York, and I'm sure that all of us 17 want to honor that obligation under the 18 constitution. I don't think there is anyone in 19 this chamber that has a feeling different than 20 what is proscribed by the Public Officers 21 Section 41. 22 Section 9 of the constitution 23 provides, "Each house shall determine the rules 3142 1 of its own proceedings." 2 How do I know if somebody comes 3 in, "The sergeant-at-arms from the Assembly said 4 come on over, we're having a meeting"? We have 5 to have an auspices under which we can attend 6 the meeting in a responsible capacity, and we 7 don't have this if anybody can just throw out a 8 resolution. 9 Now, the Lieutenant Governor, for 10 whom I have great respect, certainly is not the 11 Senate -- is not the auspices under which we can 12 respond. This has -- all of us have this 13 institutional feeling, and I'm sure if you folks 14 were in the majority you would also sustain that 15 point of view. That's why we are now -- we are 16 now considering the dignity and the 17 responsibility that each house has; and once we 18 recognize that, then we have to recognize that 19 we have to provide an auspices that is reliable, 20 that proceeds from our own organization, our own 21 structure. And we don't have it by a Lieutenant 22 Governor, not because the Lieutenant Governor is 23 a person to be demeaned. No. He is an honorable 3143 1 person, and he occupies a very important office, 2 but it is not the product of this house. The 3 product of this house is the Majority, the 4 Temporary President of the Senate, and this is 5 the structure by which we operate. 6 "Whereas, a majority vote of all 7 the members elected to the Senate adopting a 8 concurrent resolutions necessary to convene a 9 joint session or meeting of the Legislature," 10 which has been our practice sanctioned over one 11 hundred years going right back to before the - 12 up to -- well, more than a century. We're going 13 back to the Civil War days. 14 "Such concurrent resolution has 15 not been adopted by the Senate; and. 16 "Whereas, notice by the 17 Lieutenant Governor and the Speaker of the 18 Assembly are by themselves insufficient as a 19 matter of law to convene such joint session or 20 meeting; now, therefore, be it. 21 "Resolved, that the New York 22 State Senate does hereby deem and declare the 23 invitation by the New York State Assembly to a 3144 1 joint session or meeting for the purpose of 2 filling a vacancy in the Office of State 3 Comptroller to be without foundation in law." 4 How can it be argued on any other 5 basis? Are we being invited there under the law 6 that we know, under the auspices and the 7 organization that brings us all together as one 8 family? No, we're not. And you can digress to 9 other issues, and I would hope that this is an 10 opportunity that we seize for further dialogue 11 to produce a considered responsible consensus. 12 We've done that in so many different budgets. 13 We've done that through the years, each 14 upholding our own responsibility not as a loyal 15 opposition. We have never been a loyal 16 opposition in this house. We have been part of 17 the governance of this state, and we've acted 18 concurrently. We've acted concurrently with the 19 Assembly and with the Governor as part of that 20 responsibility. 21 So we hold a coordinate 22 responsibility, and we are not in the position 23 of a loyal opposition. I was in the loyal 3145 1 opposition for one year in 1965, but we also had 2 an institutional responsibility, and it was 3 honored then as you have always honored it, and 4 hope you will honor it tonight because I believe 5 that you feel that it is right to honor it in 6 that fashion. 7 "That the New York State Senate 8 does hereby deem and declare that any session or 9 meeting held by the Assembly on May 5, 1993 for 10 the purpose of appointing a Comptroller to fill 11 a vacancy in such office, and at which fewer 12 than a majority of the members of the Senate 13 elected to attend, is without legal authority to 14 fill such vacancy or meeting; and be it further. 15 "Resolved, that any action taken 16 by such session or meeting which purports to 17 elect a person to fill a vacancy in the Office 18 of the Comptroller by a joint ballot shall be 19 null and void without legal effect, and any 20 purported acts taken by such person shall be 21 without any legal effect; and be it. 22 "Resolved, that the Secretary of 23 State is notified that any action to file any 3146 1 document naming a person elected by such session 2 or meeting recording such person as Comptroller 3 of the state of New York is null, void and 4 without legal effect; and 5 "That a copy of this resolution, 6 suitably engrossed, be transmitted to the 7 Lieutenant Governor, the Speaker of the 8 Assembly, the Clerk of the Assembly, and the 9 Secretary of State." 10 Mr. President, there is no 11 alternative to this. There is an abundant area 12 for intelligent dialogue and input on the 13 questions that -- the collateral questions that 14 are so basic to the efficient functioning of 15 that office, and which have both been recognized 16 in this house and in the other house. But 17 attendance tomorrow at this will be an act of 18 futility, of no purpose, because it is in 19 defiance of the constitution which requires two 20 houses, both houses -- both houses, Senate and 21 Assembly. And unless you have an institutional 22 presence, you do not have a valid and 23 constitutional act. 3147 1 So I would hope that we seize 2 this opportunity to reassert the responsibility 3 that we have as Senators and support in concept 4 and with our vote here tonight that we are not 5 going to be tread upon in this fashion, also 6 contemporaneously extending a hand of 7 cooperation to be seized by all of us in both 8 houses of this Capitol, at both ends of the 9 hall, seized to resolve some of these questions 10 that are collateral and so significant to the 11 efficient and effective operation of the Office 12 of Comptroller. 13 Mr. President. I move the 14 adoption of this resolution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Ohrenstein. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Would 18 Senator Marino yield? 19 SENATOR MARINO: Sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Marino, do you yield? Senator yields. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I'm 23 interested in your assertion that we can not 3148 1 meet in joint session or for the purpose of a 2 "joint ballot," to be more accurate, without a 3 concurrent resolution, and that it would be 4 illegal to convene without a concurrent 5 resolution. What is your authority for that 6 assertion? 7 SENATOR MARINO: As I've 8 indicated, Senator, on four occasions where 9 vacancies have existed in statewide offices in 10 New York beginning with a vacancy in I believe 11 it was 1849 -- yes -- in the office of 12 Comptroller, Millard Fillmore. You might 13 recognize that name. That was done by 14 concurrent resolution of both houses. And when 15 Louis Lefkowitz was appointed, that was done by 16 concurrent resolution of both houses. That was, 17 I believe, the latest time when a vacancy was 18 filled and two other occasions, on all 19 occasions. 20 So, historically -- since the 21 wording is a bit vague, historically, we have 22 done it by concurrent resolutions; and the fact 23 that the Speaker has passed a concurrent 3149 1 resolution indicates to me that he believes it 2 should be done by concurrent resolution. But, 3 certainly, the way you are trying to do it is to 4 get around that very fact. Every year, when we 5 meet in joint session to listen to the Governor, 6 it's done by concurrent resolution. The same 7 applies to the Board of Regents. We go over 8 there, and we meet, and it's always by some 9 action of this house. But also by an action of 10 the majority of this house. That hasn't been 11 done here. I suggest to you that historically 12 and by practice, if for no other reason, we can 13 not have a session without the concurrent 14 resolution of both houses. 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, 16 Senator Marino, are you aware that on March 11, 17 1975, the -- there was a joint session to elect 18 a Regent - 19 SENATOR MARINO: Well, that - 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Just -- may 21 I finish? May I finish the question? 22 SENATOR MARINO: Sure. 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: -- in which 3150 1 there was no concurrent resolution? 2 SENATOR MARINO: Yes, because the 3 Regents -- there is specific language regarding 4 Regents that is different, but it requires an 5 action of this house. 6 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: What is the 7 difference in the language? 8 SENATOR MARINO: The language? If 9 you will give me the section -- read the 10 section, and we'll see. 11 It says that on a certain day we 12 shall meet, Senator. It directs us to meet on a 13 certain particular day. And it says if you 14 don't meet by that day, another day will be put. 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: And who 16 would convene such a meeting? Who would convene 17 such a meeting? 18 SENATOR MARINO: It could be 19 anyone. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Do you mean 21 the law happens by spontaneity? 22 SENATOR MARINO: The law outlines 23 the procedure. 3151 1 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No, it 2 doesn't. It says the Legislature -- this is on 3 the Regents. It says the Legislature -- where 4 is it? "Then the two houses shall meet in joint 5 session." 6 SENATOR MARINO: That's a 7 different provision, Senator. It says anybody 8 can do it providing a proper notice is given to 9 the Legislature. It says that. 10 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: That's not 11 what the law says, Senator Marino. Senator 12 Marino, the law with regard to the Regents says 13 that the Legislature shall meet in joint session 14 at noon on the second Tuesday of such a month. 15 Okay - 16 SENATOR MARINO: I said that. It 17 gives you a specific date, yes. 18 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Yes. And 19 who calls that session to order? 20 SENATOR MARINO: Anybody, I 21 assume, can call it. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I don't - 23 well - 3152 1 SENATOR MARINO: But that's the 2 Regents, Senator. That's not the Comptroller of 3 the state of New York. 4 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Let's cite 5 a - 6 SENATOR MARINO: It doesn't apply 7 here. 8 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: -- precedent. 9 SENATOR MARINO: It does not 10 apply here. 11 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, that's 12 your version. 13 SENATOR MARINO: Yes, because 14 we've done it all along. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Ohrenstein. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Ohrenstein. I know I'm flirting with danger 20 here, but may I ask that you center your 21 questions through the chair. Please. 22 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: You are 23 correct. You are correct. 3153 1 I still ask you the question. I 2 mean you have cited these precedents. I cite 3 another precedent. You have cited these 4 precedents. I still would like to understand 5 what -- your assertion that a joint session that 6 is called without a concurrent resolution, that 7 that makes it illegal. 8 SENATOR MARINO: It's never been 9 done any other way, Senator. Four times there 10 was a vacancy in a statewide office, and four 11 times you had concurrent resolutions. I submit, 12 therefore, that historically that's the 13 procedure that is to be followed, and I also 14 submit that the Speaker thought that when he 15 passed the concurrent resolution. 16 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: And I 17 suggest to you, Senator Marino, that the fact 18 that it was done this way doesn't mean that it 19 is a condition precedent or a legal requirement 20 that it be done that way. The only legal 21 requirement is in the law, which says that the 22 -- while the Legislature -- when a vacancy 23 occurs while we're in session, the two houses by 3154 1 joint ballot shall appoint someone to fill a 2 vacancy. It does not speak to how that joint 3 ballot occurs. It can occur by the way you 4 suggest, and it can occur in other ways. No one 5 has ever spoken to the fact that only a 6 concurrent resolution can convene the two houses 7 in joint ballot. There is no such requirement 8 in this bill. And there are other precedents, 9 particularly those with regard to the Regents, 10 where I concede to you the language is somewhat 11 different, but it is equally -- it is vague in 12 other ways; and, therefore, your assertion - 13 I'm simply challenging your assertion that a 14 concurrent resolution is the only way in which 15 we convene a joint session under Section 41 of 16 the Public Officers Law. 17 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, that's 18 your opinion and I'm sure a court will tell us 19 who's right. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: And that's 21 your opinion. Okay. So then let's get on with 22 the issue. 23 Senator Marino, I listened very 3155 1 carefully to what you said before in justifying 2 this resolution, which in fact, is also somewhat 3 unprecedented. You are declaring a nullity or 4 you are attempting to declare a nullity an act 5 which hasn't even taken place. You are in 6 advance saying, "If this act takes place in this 7 way, we think it's illegal." So at best, this 8 is an expression of your version of what the law 9 is, and there are several instances in this 10 resolution which indicate that there are 11 assumptions to it, particularly the assumption 12 that there has to be a concurrent resolution, 13 that that's the foundation for this whole 14 resolution; and, therefore, if that foundation 15 is not correct, the resolution falls by its own 16 weight. 17 But let me say that this 18 resolution is really irrelevant because no 19 resolution passed by one house or a majority of 20 one house can nullify an act that is being 21 executed pursuant to the existing law. The law 22 is a bill that was passed some years ago, signed 23 by the Governor. It is now the law and it 3156 1 governs it, and that law definitely calls for a 2 joint ballot by both houses in order to fill - 3 fulfill a vacancy. It says nothing about 4 concurrent resolution. It says nothing about 5 how it is to be convened; and, therefore, I 6 would suggest to you the method of convocation 7 can be different in different instances and 8 would be equally legal. 9 The question -- the one thing 10 that is required by the law is that we meet in 11 joint session to fulfill a vacancy. That law 12 doesn't say we can only fill a vacancy in joint 13 session if there are reforms passed with regard 14 to the selection process for Comptroller or 15 reforms passed with regard to how we manage our 16 retirement system. I'll say this. At least on 17 the question of reforms on the selection process 18 for vacancy for Comptroller or Attorney General, 19 at least it is somewhat relevant to this 20 process, but it is not a condition which is 21 required by the law. As regard to the reform of 22 the trusteeship system with regard to the 23 pension fund, that has absolutely nothing to do 3157 1 with the selection of a Comptroller to fulfill a 2 vacancy. 3 We do have a law in effect now. 4 That is the law, and that is the law we are 5 compelled to abide by, and we are not -- there 6 is nothing in the law which says you don't have 7 to abide by it unless to change the law to some 8 version which you believe is correct or somebody 9 else is correct. So that is the opening 10 assumption of your statement. It is the opening 11 assumption with all due respect, -- and I have, 12 as you know, enormous respect for you personally 13 and for your leadership, but that is the 14 underlying basis for your whole challenge to 15 what is mandated by law. 16 Your press reless today and the 17 events preceding that with regard to the 18 conversations that were related to me between 19 you and your representatives and the 20 representatives of the Speaker and the Assembly 21 were that you would agree to a session next 22 Monday; you would pass a concurrent resolution 23 for a session next Monday provided the Assembly 3158 1 agreed to pass a concurrent resolution which 2 changed the law with regard to the selection of 3 a Comptroller, and the Attorney General, I 4 assume, some time in the future if that was ever 5 to occur; and that, secondly, that the Assembly 6 agree to a bill which was handed to them which 7 created a new trusteeship group or whatever you 8 call it, for the pension system. 9 That's the conditions which you 10 presented to the Assembly. 11 SENATOR MARINO: Would you 12 yield? 13 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Certainly. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Marino. 16 SENATOR MARINO: Clearly, you are 17 talking about hearsay, Senator, and I respect 18 your right to talk about hearsay. 19 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I suggest we 20 do a lot of things around here by hearsay. 21 SENATOR MARINO: No, I respect 22 that, but I just want you to know that I believe 23 I have a closer connection with the 3159 1 conversation, and let me assure you that the 2 proposals we made were not conditions, quid pro 3 quo. They were concerns we had about the 4 present status of the way we pick a Comptroller 5 and the power we give an unelected Comptroller 6 over the lives of those people who are concerned 7 about their pensions. I shared the same 8 concerns that the Assembly had. And all we said 9 was let's sit down and see if we can work out 10 some mutually satisfactory legislation. These 11 were not conditions. These were concerns that 12 they have and we have, and we said give us a 13 chance to talk about them, and perhaps we can 14 come to some conclusion on it. Okay. We didn't 15 say you have to accept all of it, some of it, or 16 whatever and that was it. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: May I quote 18 your own words? 19 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Your words 21 are, "We have offered to pass a concurrent 22 resolution..." - 23 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. 3160 1 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: -- "... to 2 enable the Democrats to sit in joint session - 3 to enable the Democrats to sit in joint 4 session..." 5 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. 6 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I assume it 7 would be the Legislature to sit in joint 8 session. "... and hand pick the next Comptroller 9 if they agree to reform the selection process 10 and trusteeship of the retirement system." 11 That's your statement. It was a 12 condition. 13 SENATOR MARINO: Does it say 14 "passage" there? 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: "If they 16 agree to reform." 17 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. To reform, 18 yes. 19 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I don't know 20 what kind of agreements are made around here 21 without the agreement on bills that are passed. 22 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, I would 23 submit to you that, clearly, the first passage 3161 1 of a constitutional amendment doesn't do 2 anything except make a statement. That doesn't 3 reform anything. I know it, and you know it, 4 and the Assembly knows that, but we want to get 5 started in the process. 6 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, what 7 about your trusteeship proposal that you handed 8 to the Speaker? 9 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. The 10 difference was between four and thirteen and the 11 nature of the members, basically. In five days, 12 I can change that. We can agree or agree to 13 agree or have some dialogue. The Assembly 14 refused to talk about it, and it was their 15 original proposal. That's chutzpah, Senator, I 16 submit. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: We'll see if 18 we can agree on a definition of what's chutzpah. 19 Senator Marino, with all due 20 respect, the question - 21 SENATOR MARINO: Read the last 22 paragraph. It says "consider changes." 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, you 3162 1 know, you say something different in different 2 paragraphs. And, Senator, I may even say to 3 you, you said something different on the floor 4 just before. Because on the one hand you were 5 insisting on legislation, and then you were 6 upset because you weren't privy to the rules or 7 you don't know what the rules of the joint 8 session are, that that has become a condition 9 precedent. But be that as it may. 10 Senator Marino, the question of 11 the trusteeship of the pension fund has been a 12 matter which has been discussed in this Capitol 13 for years. Indeed, the Assembly has year after 14 year passed a bill which calls for a thirteen 15 member trusteeship. But which -- which 16 trusteeship council, or whatever it is called, 17 is basically appointed by the Comptroller. 18 Their bill provides one appointment by the 19 Governor. The Comptroller is chairman of that 20 trusteeship council, and there are certain 21 requirements that public employees be 22 represented in the appointments, in the eleven 23 appointments the Comptroller makes, and that the 3163 1 Conference of Mayors and of Counties be 2 represented on this council because they have an 3 interest too, because, as you know -- it is well 4 known -- the pension fund also covers many 5 counties and many cities, and it's certainly 6 that the public employees of this state have 7 every right to deal with their pension fund 8 because it's their money. 9 The difference between the bill 10 you presented today is huge. And, by the way, 11 under that proposal that the Assembly has 12 offered to you for years, the Comptroller would 13 be the chairman of this council. He would 14 select eleven appointees of that council and he 15 would still be the -- he or she would still be 16 the custodian of the fund and administer it. 17 Under your proposal, you would substitute that 18 with a trusteeship council of which the 19 Comptroller would be the chair. There would be 20 one appointment by the Governor, one by the 21 Majority Leader of the Senate, and one by the 22 Speaker, and would remove all powers with regard 23 to investment decisions from the Comptroller and 3164 1 enshrine it in this council and would remove 2 custodial control over the retirement system 3 from the Comptroller and put it into this 4 council. 5 Senator Marino, on Monday of this 6 week after weeks and weeks of an open process 7 that was public and open -- we had public 8 hearings to which you were invited and to which 9 you originally agreed to and these were valid. 10 They were there. The press was there after 11 weeks and weeks of consideration, starting on 12 February 18 when the Comptroller indicated he 13 would resign. There was an open, public process 14 which resulted on Monday at a meeting in which 15 the members of this Legislature who are 16 Democrats were present, in which that body of 17 127 agreed to make Mr. Carl McCall the 18 Democratic nominee for Comptroller. And since, 19 meeting in joint session, the Democrats 127 20 strong have the power to make that nomination 21 stick and to make Mr. McCall the new Comptroller 22 of the state of New York, that action spoke to 23 you to tell you that we, the Democratic Party 3165 1 here, made a decision on how to fill this 2 vacancy. 3 Within 24 hours, you offer the 4 leadership of the Assembly a bill which in one 5 fell swoop would emasculate the new Comptroller 6 of the state of New York. 7 SENATOR MARINO: Senator yield? 8 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: When I 9 finish, then I will be happy to yield to you any 10 time, Senator Marino. Your bill is so different 11 from what the Assembly bill provided for years 12 and what has been under discussion that in some 13 -- and I say this respectfully to you, it was 14 in some respects an insult to the process which 15 we followed and to the man who is highly quali 16 fied and comes to this with enormous credential 17 by moving ahead and trying to do this in 24 18 hours. You didn't even give him the courtesy of 19 getting elected so that he could comment and 20 work with us on this profound change in our 21 pension system. 22 So if all of these years of 23 dialogue and debate did not change, did not come 3166 1 to a conclusion on this particular issue, how in 2 blazes could you possibly think by offering a 3 bill of the kind that you offered yesterday to 4 the Speaker would lead to some conclusion within 5 a matter of days? A bill which would have 6 created a political boondoggle of our retirement 7 system, because it is totally inappropriate that 8 the political parties represented in this 9 Legislature appoint the people who run the 10 pension system. The pension system should be 11 run by the Comptroller. And if we want to have 12 a board to advise him or even to mandate him on 13 the question of investment decisions, then it 14 has to be a board which represents the parties 15 in interest, the employees, the local government 16 units which are represented, and the state of 17 New York as represented by the Comptroller. But 18 to offer this bill, with all due respect, 19 Senator Marino, does not befit your high 20 standards. 21 That is why it was rejected 22 because there is no point in even discussing it, 23 aside from the fact that it is not relevant to 3167 1 our complying with the law which we passed years 2 ago on how to fill the vacancy at this time. 3 Now, let's talk about that. I 4 remember a couple years ago when the Governor or 5 the Lieutenant Governor asked us, begged us to 6 change the process by which the Lieutenant 7 Governor is elected, by which the succession is 8 mandated, because the Governor believed there 9 were certain flaws. Indeed, the United States 10 of America went through that process; and for a 11 long time, the Congress considered changes in 12 how to do this and finally came to an agreement 13 in a constitutional amendment which finally 14 passed. It took years. 15 We have never had a discussion 16 here until this matter arose about how we should 17 more appropriately fill the vacancies for 18 Comptroller or Lieutenant Governor or, for that 19 matter, of how we should provide for succession 20 in this state should something happen to the 21 Governor. Those are very appropriate matters 22 which require long and thoughtful discussion and 23 public hearings. Certainly on the question of 3168 1 the trusteeship council, that requires input and 2 hearings from the people who are affected by it 3 who could not possibly be consulted in the next 4 two or three days which is your time schedule. 5 So I must say to you, with all 6 due respect to you and your integrity, which is 7 without question, the proposal you made to the 8 Speaker on the question of these things -- I 9 will give you the best of motivations that you 10 want these reforms. The Speaker wants reforms, 11 we want reforms. But you are not going to get 12 them in three days on matters that have been 13 before us for years and have not been able to be 14 resolved and get them in three days because you 15 wish them so; and in the process, you tell the 16 gentleman who will likely be the new 17 Comptroller, "Well, we're going to make you 18 Comptroller, but now we're going to take it all 19 away from you," without even talking to him or 20 her and consulting them. That is not an 21 appropriate way. 22 Senator Marino, we're going to 23 have a joint session whether it's tomorrow or 3169 1 the next day or the day after that. Why must 2 you throw roadblocks into this process when the 3 result is inevitable? You have put forward a 4 desire to reform the system. We join you in 5 that desire, and we will work with you. The 6 Speaker will work with you. But don't try to 7 tell us we have to hold up this election and 8 finish a process which has now lasted close to 9 two months and put into office a new Comptroller 10 who is highly qualified, a distinguished former 11 member of this house, an ambassador to the 12 United Nations, who will bring enormous credit 13 to this state. Why do you want to sit four 14 square in the wake of that? 15 So I would suggest to you no one 16 wants to take your prerogatives away. Nobody 17 wants to mistreat or ill treat members of the 18 Majority of this house. God knows, we don't do 19 it. We can't do it even if we tried. 20 But in the same time if you're in 21 a minority in this joint session, why don't you 22 have the grace to simply say, "Okay, you guys 23 have made up your minds the way you want to go." 3170 1 No one has taken any umbrage or suggested even 2 in the slightest that the gentleman that we are 3 about to nominate and elect is not qualified, in 4 any way. On the contrary, every newspaper in 5 this state has praised him to the sky. So why 6 simply not finish it, and let's stop this 7 quibbling about positioning ourselves 8 politically or being on some kind of an ego trip 9 because you don't like the way you have been 10 treated. 11 Senator Marino, we don't like the 12 way we're treated sometimes either, but that 13 comes with the territory, and we go on and we 14 come to the sessions here. Don't think that 15 over the years from time to time there have not 16 been suggestions in my conference that we simply 17 walk out and not come to the session, and that 18 has always been vetoed by members of my 19 conference, because the Senate meets and we're 20 going to be there whether we like what's 21 happening or not. Protesting and going on some 22 kind of a strike is not the way to do it. 23 The way this body is going to be 3171 1 convened tomorrow is as legal as any other 2 process. It is being convened by the presiding 3 officer of the Senate and the presiding officer 4 of the Assembly in one unique circumstance when 5 we have a joint session. It is not interfering 6 with the prerogatives or the rules of this 7 house. And I think -- I beg you to have the 8 grace to accede to this process and to let us 9 finish to elect a Comptroller and not to 10 question the process and have this matter 11 hanging in the air for weeks and months simply 12 because you in some way felt that you were not 13 appropriately consulted. It isn't fair. It 14 isn't necessary because you will be 15 appropriately consulted, I promise you, from 16 here on in every day, every day of the week and 17 every month of the year, when we are in session 18 because nobody has an alternative to you. You 19 have the majority, and we accede to that, and 20 you are going to be making the decision. 21 On this one, you can't make the 22 decisions because you are not in the majority. 23 There is nothing shameful about that. That's 3172 1 the nature of the system which is the law. So, 2 again, as I say to you, I think your arguments 3 are specious. The scenario which you put out 4 about conditioning this on some kind of a 5 reform, it won't work. It is not credible 6 because in all the years we've been here we 7 haven't reformed this process despite intensive 8 discussion on this matter. 9 So I ask you to withdraw this 10 resolution. Come to the session tomorrow. 11 Let's elect a new Comptroller. Then we will 12 convene here and go about our business. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Ohrenstein, do you yield to Senator Marino? 15 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Sure. 16 SENATOR MARINO: Senator 17 Ohrenstein, I just wanted to correct a couple of 18 your statements because they're factually 19 incorrect. The bill that you said we just put 20 together and threw at the Speaker was written 21 and circulated last week. It was not done to 22 get Mr. McCall or anyone else. So whoever the 23 nominee was, in our opinion, should have been 3173 1 subject to this type of legislation. 2 So we have not pointed to any 3 particular person as a target for these bills. 4 We just felt that these bills were important 5 bills and should be addressed, because having a 6 vacancy in the Office of Comptroller in mid-term 7 is unusual. As you know -- you have been here a 8 long time -- it's probably never happened in 9 your time. It certainly hasn't happened in 10 mine. You, yourself, said, Senator, that 11 political parties ought not run the pension 12 system. And we feel that four people using 13 their brains perhaps might come to a different 14 conclusion than one person over the lives of 15 people who depend on a pension system and 16 especially over a person who hasn't been elected 17 by the people. You know, Ned Regan at least was 18 elected by the people, so he was accountable to 19 the people. That's what we're suggesting here. 20 We need oversight because we have an unelected 21 Comptroller under your system or under the one 22 you're trying - 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Under my 3174 1 system? 2 SENATOR MARINO: Under the system 3 you are trying to enforce tomorrow. 4 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No, under 5 the system that is in law. With all due 6 respect, Senator Marino, under the law. 7 SENATOR MARINO: Under the law, 8 Senator, the Lieutenant Governor has no right to 9 convene any kind of a meeting of this house at 10 any place, at any time. 11 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Would you 12 yield? 13 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. You show 14 me the authority, Senator, and I will bow to 15 that authority. 16 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, if you 17 won't pass a concurrent resolution and if the 18 Lieutenant Governor doesn't have the authority, 19 how would you propose such a meeting take 20 place? 21 SENATOR MARINO: Answer my 22 question first. What is the authority of the 23 Lieutenant Governor? 3175 1 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: The 2 Lieutenant Governor is the presiding officer 3 under the constitution of the state of New 4 York. This is, as I've said a unique -- there 5 are certain unique meetings of the Legislature 6 which are provided for by law. And when the two 7 houses meet together in joint session, the 8 Lieutenant Governor has presided always, and he 9 is the presiding officer; and, therefore, he has 10 as much color of authority as you have color of 11 authority in terms of concurrent resolutions. 12 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, I don't 13 wish to debate this at any length, but I just 14 want you to know that I don't think you can cite 15 any sections of our rules that would permit the 16 Lieutenant Governor to convene any kind of a 17 session since it is not by majority vote of this 18 house. That's the only way we operate, as far 19 as I know, in this house or in the other house. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: With all due 21 respect, neither can you cite any sections of 22 the law which require a concurrent resolution. 23 SENATOR MARINO: I've told you 3176 1 by -- if for no other reason, by precedent, 2 Senator, four times when it's happened. When 3 we've had vacancies, that's the way it was 4 handled. And I've submitted to you that the 5 Speaker himself thought that, by passing a 6 concurrent resolution. 7 Now, I don't think you would 8 suggest that Al Gore can convene a session of 9 the House of Representatives or the Senate or 10 any other body, and that's what you are 11 suggesting here - 12 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I - 13 SENATOR MARINO: -- that that can 14 happen, and it can't happen. It can't happen 15 there, and it's not going to happen here. And, 16 Senator, you, I know, are anxious to uphold the 17 rules of this house. And it's important, I 18 believe and we believe on this side and you 19 should believe, that this is a bad precedent 20 that the presiding officer of this house can 21 call a session together with the other house. I 22 just think it's a bad precedent. It's illegal, 23 improper, and we must challenge that kind of a 3177 1 meeting. That's what our position is here, 2 Senator. 3 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Will the 4 Senator yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Ohrenstein, you have the floor, sir. 7 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Senator 8 Marino, there will be no bill within the next 9 four or five days or a week to a concurrent 10 resolution reforming the process by which 11 Comptroller and Attorney General vacancies are 12 made. There will be none, because it's going to 13 take time. And there certainly should be public 14 hearings, and the public should be consulted on 15 this issue. I think there is a lot of desire to 16 do this. It isn't going to happen in the next 17 three or four days or week. 18 There certainly, after years of 19 debate, isn't going to be a bill which both 20 houses agree on to deal with a question of the 21 trusteeship of the retirement system and a basic 22 change with regard to the two major functions, 23 which is investment decisions and the custodial 3178 1 thing which is very complicated. And certainly 2 with respect to that, there is not going to be a 3 bill unless the public employees are consulted 4 whose money this is and unless the counties are 5 consulted whose pension monies we administrate 6 or the cities of this state, with the exception 7 of the city of New York, are consulted whose 8 money is in the fund. That's not going to 9 happen in four days or in a week. 10 So are you saying to us that 11 unless these reforms take place some time in the 12 next weeks or months, we should not fill this 13 vacancy as mandated by law? Is that your 14 proposal? 15 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, what 16 you are proposing and what the Assembly is 17 proposing that the majority of your side and the 18 Assembly get together and in two days -- two 19 days, not five days, not a week -- two days 20 appoint a Comptroller. We suggested a 21 referendum. You reject that. Everybody rejects 22 that. The Assembly has rejected that. 23 You speak for the Assembly now, 3179 1 obviously, when you say that they would reject 2 four members rather than thirteen. How do you 3 know that? I don't know that. They don't want 4 to talk to me about it. So give us the 5 opportunity, is all we say, to discuss this, and 6 then we will go along with you on a concurrent 7 resolution. They won't give me that 8 opportunity. They won't even permit us to adopt 9 the rules for such a meeting. 10 Senator, that's wrong. 11 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: The rules 12 for such a meeting will be adopted by the joint 13 session as they have always been adopted by the 14 joint session. Rules of the joint session have 15 always been adopted by the joint session. 16 And, Senator Marino, forgive me, 17 but you are being somewhat disingenuous, to tell 18 us, "We won't agree to a change in the filling 19 of a vacancy by special election and so on." 20 You won't agree to a referendum. You are 21 suddenly becoming this great reformer because of 22 this vacancy. Where were you all last year, the 23 year before, ten years ago, when we had the 3180 1 chance to do this thoughtfully and properly? 2 Suddenly you want to do this. 3 Senator Marino, let me tell you 4 why I refer to the date of March 11, 1975. 5 Because on that day Senator Anderson did not 6 wish to accede to a joint session on the 7 selection of a Regent as mandated by law. The 8 Lieutenant Governor called up a concurrent 9 resolution in order to convene that session. 10 And when Senator Anderson replied, he came up 11 with the idea that a reason they didn't want to 12 go into joint session -- and I was there at that 13 time because I'm quoted extensively in these 14 debates. You would not accede to a joint 15 session unless every member of the Senate was 16 given two and a half votes. That was his 17 proposal. So suddenly on that day, he came up 18 with this ingenious reform and he expected that 19 to be adopted on that day before he would agree 20 to a joint session. 21 Well, obviously, there was no 22 such agreement, and the Lieutenant Governor 23 recessed this house. The Majority stayed in 3181 1 this house. The Minority went over into session 2 as required by law, and we elected a Regent 3 without your presence. I would suggest to you 4 that that same scenario is going to happen 5 tomorrow not because we want it that way but 6 because you haven't given us a single reason why 7 we can't meet tomorrow in joint session, adopt 8 rules, have our debates. We have never had a 9 joint session in which there was a lack of 10 debate or a lack of opportunity to nominate 11 candidates or a lack of opportunity to speak for 12 the candidates. That's a specious argument. 13 That all will be done, and we 14 will debate the rules if you disagree with the 15 rules; and I would dare say, if you have 16 amendments that are meritorious, they will be 17 adopted. You tell us that all the time when we 18 do that, and I mean that sincerely. There is 19 only one reason that you don't want to convene 20 tomorrow, and that is because of the conditions 21 you seek to effect here which are conditions 22 which are impossible to obtain. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3182 1 Waldon. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. President. 4 This is the best of times and the 5 worst of times. It's the best of times because 6 we have the opportunity in New York State to do 7 something that's quite historic. Long after the 8 state of Illinois, long after the state of South 9 Carolina, long after even the state of 10 Mississippi, we have a chance to have an 11 African-American hold statewide office. 12 The worst of times because, on 13 the eve of that historic occasion, someone has 14 muddied the waters. I'm concerned that the 15 integrity of the Senate is important. No one 16 wishes to be disrespected, treated as a 17 second-class citizen, be labeled impotent 18 politicians or not allowed to exercise the 19 mandate from the people who voted each of us to 20 come here and do the people's business. But on 21 this side of the aisle, this is almost a daily 22 experience at times. 23 My reading of the constitution 3183 1 and of the Public Officers Law disagrees with 2 that of Senator Marino. But my concerns in 3 rising, Mr. President, are not so much about the 4 big issue that he is talking about but a more 5 parochial issue, and that parochial issue is 6 about color and race. 7 And I ask the question of those 8 in this body. Some of you I've gone to dinner 9 with, we've chatted, we've gone on vacation 10 together, and I know in your heart of hearts on 11 that side of the aisle that you are not racist, 12 but what is happening here tonight sends a 13 signal to a large percentage of the people of 14 the state of New York which will be interpreted 15 as racist. 16 Let me tell you why I feel that 17 way. Why now, when Carl McCall is about to be 18 appointed the Comptroller, do we propose to take 19 away his power as the steward of the New York 20 State employees' pension system? 21 Why now do we propose that four 22 people replace the board that is in place at 23 this time or even the board that has been 3184 1 proposed in the Assembly and put the pension 2 system in charge of the most political animals 3 in Albany, the Governor, the Speaker and the 4 leader of this house, and relegate the 5 Comptroller to a subservient position? 6 To do these things proposed by my 7 colleagues on this side of the aisle sends a 8 signal to my people that we are not qualified. 9 Whether you mean to do that or not, it says to 10 someone who grew up in my shoes, in my 11 community, from my heritage, that we're not 12 qualified. 13 It says that even when the 14 process is right and lawful -- and I believe the 15 process described by the Minority Leader is 16 right and lawful -- that even though the process 17 is right and lawful, we will not abide the 18 process. We will change it to suit our personal 19 means. 20 It says no matter how 21 credentialized, how experienced politically, how 22 much support one has from white or black, Jew or 23 gentile, if you don't get your way in this 3185 1 process, the process is unacceptable and that 2 you won't play the game and that you'll take 3 your ball and bat and go home. 4 It says to all who look like me 5 in the state, who have been historically the 6 most disenfranchised people of this country, 7 that we will further disenfranchise you, and 8 this is happening in 1993. 9 My colleagues, my friends, I 10 think that this action is beneath the dignity of 11 this house. It is unacceptable; it is immoral; 12 it is not astute politically. And I would hope 13 that in your heart of hearts, in your reasoning 14 of reasons -- in your reasoning capability, that 15 you will reject this resolution and let us be 16 about the business for all of the people of the 17 state of New York, not just a few. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 First of all, I want to thank 3186 1 Senator Ohrenstein for laying out this -- these 2 issues in what I thought was a very cogent and 3 wonderful way, and I'm proud that he is our 4 spokesman. 5 Senator Waldon, I heard Senator 6 Marino, perhaps in anticipation of your 7 comments, make a remark that this bill was 8 drafted about a week ago before it was Carl 9 McCall. And I guess if one were a skeptical 10 kind of person, they might say it really wasn't 11 aimed at Carl McCall. Maybe they were afraid it 12 would be a woman. Maybe someone was afraid it 13 could have been the Borough President of the 14 Bronx. 15 The answer is that whatever the 16 thoughts were, you are exactly right, Senator 17 Waldon. You are exactly right. The timing of 18 this is terrible. The individuals involved on 19 the other side of the aisle are gentlemen of 20 good will, I'm sure. But the timing is terrible 21 in terms of the message it conveys. 22 There's been reference all 23 evening to why this two-day rush to do this act, 3187 1 and I'm flabbergasted. I mean I haven't agreed 2 with Ned Regan day in and day out, but there is 3 a gentleman, and I use that word and I mean it, 4 who on or about February 18th said, I'm going to 5 do something at the end of April. Get ready. 6 I'm going to do something. I'm not going to 7 tell you the day before and leave the state 8 afloat without a Comptroller elected in a proper 9 way. And, by the way, the constitution tells us 10 the proper way and we're going to do that. 11 Now, am I being told by 35 12 Republicans in this house that Ned Regan is a 13 liar and, therefore, we couldn't believe him 14 until the day it happened? That's outrageous. 15 It's outrageous. He did it because he had 16 respect for the state, and he wanted a process. 17 The law involved says, "Shall." 18 We can do it. And one of the gentlemen on your 19 side of the aisle said at the Rules Committee 20 meeting, "Well, it says shall, but it doesn't 21 say today." And the implication is, we could do 22 it a month, two months, maybe never. 23 Well, yes, the power to tax is 3188 1 the power to destroy. The power to say "never" 2 is the power to undercut the constitution, and 3 that is terrible, terrible logic and reasoning. 4 But more important than that, 5 with the Comptroller of your party, who gives us 6 notice in February of what he is going to do the 7 end of April, the Majority Leader of this house, 8 the Minority Leader of the Assembly agreed to a 9 process. A process -- probably the most open 10 process in the history of this state in these 11 kinds of circumstances, and then they picked up 12 their marbles and left. 13 Not only did they pick up their 14 marbles and leave, but they issued press 15 statements, criticizing the process, accusing 16 Democrats of doing things behind closed doors, 17 things that we should be ashamed of, that we 18 were abusing the system. 19 And listening very carefully to 20 everything you say, because everybody should 21 listen to everything you say, the newspapers 22 reacted, and they reacted by endorsing Carl 23 McCall because they knew what you said was 3189 1 hogwash. They know it. 2 I mean NEWSDAY, they didn't go 3 all over Long Island and New York City and say 4 that the Democrats are abusing the system, it's 5 got to be changed, it's antique, et cetera, et 6 cetera. They said, Come on, stop this 7 nonsense. Go with Carl McCall. 8 The New York Times, Mr. McCall 9 for state Comptroller. "Don't you get any kind 10 of a message from that? I can't stop you from 11 saying anything you - 12 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 13 Will the Senator yield? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Daly, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR DALY: Do you believe, 17 from the way you speak, and I think you do, that 18 the - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 20 me, sir. 21 Senator Gold, do you yield? 22 SENATOR DALY: Does the Senator 23 yield? 3190 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senator yields. 4 Senator Daly. 5 SENATOR DALY: Thank you. 6 Senator, do you actually think 7 that the newspaper editorial boards that you are 8 reading right now speak ex cathedra? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Speak what? 10 SENATOR DALY: Speak from the 11 throne. They're always right. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, excuse me. 13 Excuse me. Sir - 14 SENATOR DALY: Why do you throw 15 it in our face? 16 SENATOR GOLD: I didn't plant 17 that question, did I? 18 Senator, the answer is very 19 simple. I don't put any newspaper on a 20 pedestal. I don't put anybody on a pedestal. I 21 believe in only one God. 22 But what I'm saying to you is, 23 isn't it obvious to you that people who don't 3191 1 have an interest have listened to your arguments 2 and have put them in the trash basket and have 3 understood that this process is the most open 4 process that has ever been in this history? 5 Doesn't it seem weird to you that 6 there isn't anything that says, "Hey, wait a 7 minute, you gentlemen and ladies" -- ladies, 8 referring obviously to this side of the aisle - 9 "you should pay some more attention, do some 10 other things"? None of that -- none of that 11 happened, and all of those arguments were thrown 12 out. 13 The process was always okay with 14 you, and I say "you "and I'm not going to get 15 into the argument of what was everybody doing in 16 1957. But for generations, Republicans with 17 majorities in both houses felt the process was 18 wonderful. Now it ain't your guy, and we get 19 this kind of business. 20 In this resolution -- no, excuse 21 me. In the press release, which was referred to 22 before, Senator Marino says something which I 23 regret very much that he said. He says that if 3192 1 there is a court challenge, quotes, "Such a 2 challenge will only call into question the 3 legality of the selection process, the actions 4 of anyone acting as Comptroller," and then he 5 goes, "the state's ability to borrow, "et 6 cetera, et cetera. 7 Why would you do that? I could 8 never understand why you insisted on carrying 9 budgets over six and seven weeks and affect the 10 credibility of the fiscal integrity of this 11 state. Now, for no reason you are telling us 12 that for your ego, and it says -- and I remember 13 the word was used. I think it was Senator 14 Marino. He said, "This is happening without 15 taking into consideration the will of the 16 Majority." 17 Are you using a dictionary that 18 confuses the word "will" with "ego"? In other 19 words, for your will or ego, you are going to 20 affect the credit rating of this state by 21 questioning the election of a Comptroller that 22 will have a majority of the elected people in 23 both houses, not somebody who gets in under a 3193 1 technicality because you didn't show up and 2 we're taking this, we're doing that. 3 You're suggesting in your press 4 release, Senator Marino, and I don't understand 5 it and I know you know better and I respect you, 6 but you're suggesting that you would bring a 7 lawsuit to oust someone elected by a majority of 8 both houses and you, Senator Marino, would be 9 responsible for affecting the credit rating of 10 this state? 11 SENATOR MARINO: Could I answer 12 that, please? 13 SENATOR GOLD: I'd be delighted. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Will the 15 Senator yield? 16 SENATOR MARINO: What I'm 17 suggesting, Senator, is that you and the 18 Lieutenant Governor and the Speaker would be on 19 notice that you are going to commit an illegal 20 act, and that's why it's in the press release. 21 And that's why we told you a day ahead of time, 22 so you don't do an illegal act at 10:30 a.m. 23 That's why it's in there. 3194 1 SENATOR GOLD: As I was saying, 2 Mr. President, I'm not going to argue the 3 legality of the act because I would only repeat 4 every word said by Senator Ohrenstein because he 5 laid it out beautifully. It is ridiculous if a 6 majority of the people elected in these chambers 7 are in a room at a time we all know it's going 8 to happen, and they agree on somebody -- that's 9 what the constitution requires, the law 10 requires. The person will be the selection of a 11 majority of that house. Senator Marchi said 12 time and time again, two houses, two houses. 13 Senator Marchi, the idea of writing a lot of 14 words and bills means you read to the end of the 15 sentences. The two houses get together and then 16 you have one -- one -- and it's that one that 17 votes, and each of us will have the 1/211th of 18 the vote and 127/211th is a majority. 19 So why frustrate it? What are we 20 accomplishing? We are accomplishing, Senator 21 Marino, an unrequired, unnecessary putting into 22 question the credibility of the state of New 23 York because it's a bad precedent? 3195 1 Can I tell you something about 2 precedent? We on this side of the aisle, as 3 pointed out by Senator Ohrenstein, make 4 arguments day in and day out, and then we have 5 to lose a vote with dignity. That's a precedent 6 that you ought to understand also; that when you 7 have the minority and you don't have the votes, 8 you ought to at least learn to lose it with 9 dignity. It's got to happen. That's what the 10 will of the people is all about. You can't have 11 it, by the way, both ways. 12 And another thing, Senator 13 Marchi, you said that you have never been the 14 loyal opposition; you are part of the 15 governance. Do you want to read all of the 16 campaign literature that I have seen which says 17 that you people never voted for taxes and never 18 voted for the budgets, and it's the Governor and 19 it's everybody else in the world? 20 Well, if you don't want to be 21 part of the governance on election day, then - 22 you know. Very strange. The fact of the 23 matter - 3196 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Marchi, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Will Senator 4 Gold yield? 5 SENATOR GOLD: For you, Senator 6 Marchi, of course. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold yield? Yes, Senator does. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: I would like to 10 ask you a rhetorical question. Have I ever put 11 out any literature that I didn't vote for a tax 12 when it was needed? And haven't many of your 13 own members voted, even with your own 14 administration, the other way? I'm talking 15 about institutional -- or do we understand each 16 other? Do we understand each other? 17 We have been together through 18 thick and thin. Most of these questions are on 19 the same side, so how can you talk that way? 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. At 21 least he didn't call me a whited sepulcher this 22 time. I remember when you did that, and it took 23 me an hour to find out what that meant. 3197 1 SENATOR MARCHI: I like good 2 music so I would never tell you that. 3 SENATOR GOLD: You did, too. 4 I'll tell you where you did it. We held a 5 session in Room A. 6 Mr. President. The bottom line 7 is that this really is totally unnecessary. It 8 puts into question our integrity. It puts into 9 question the questions raised by Senator Waldon 10 as to this particular individual of fantastic 11 background who does not deserve being put into 12 this situation, and we just shouldn't do it. I 13 know everybody in this place, and we're better 14 than that. We really are better than that. 15 Unfortunately, if you do what 16 you're doing, I'm going to win a bet I made that 17 I wanted to lose. We shouldn't do it. We 18 should do this with dignity, get it finished, 19 and let the processes continue. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Tully, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR TULLY: Point of 3198 1 information. Would you be able to enlighten us 2 as to how many speakers you have listed? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 4 has listed seven more speakers. For your 5 information also, the debate started at 9:22 if 6 that's of any interest. 7 The Chair has Senator Volker next 8 on the list. I don't see Senator Volker in the 9 room. 10 Senator Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. I rise. I think this has been 13 an interesting debate for me, and I just want to 14 comment. I will try to be very brief. I'd just 15 like to comment on a couple quick things that 16 have been said. I understand the comments from 17 the leader of the Majority when he talks about 18 intransigence and the need to discuss process. 19 I think most of the members of 20 this house will know that I've been here since 21 day one talking about process in this, as 22 Senator Marchi put it "beloved house." I have 23 been talking about that process. Because I 3199 1 think the process that we have here of late 2 night meetings, late night budget decisions, 3 lack of access to information is all 4 inappropriate. 5 I started that discussion the day 6 I walked in. I can sympathize with the Majority 7 Leader's comment about the process, about the 8 need for process. 9 But I think the process that's 10 been followed in this case has been an exemplary 11 one. There have been public hearings, the kind 12 we should have on our legislative budgets. 13 There's been a discussion about qualifications, 14 an in-depth discussion and analysis of 15 qualifications of candidates. And I believe, 16 consistent with the representations of the 17 Minority Leader, that tomorrow when we meet in 18 joint session we will adopt rules that will give 19 fair debate, give fair opportunity to be heard, 20 and give a chance for all the members, the 211 21 members of a joint session to be able to have 22 their opinions known. 23 So I understand the complaints 3200 1 about process. My hope is that the Majority 2 Leader's comments about process will not fall on 3 deaf ears among all of our members, that we'll 4 look to the process of this institution. 5 And that turns me to my second 6 topic, the topic of the house, as Senator Marchi 7 properly points out. I recognize the importance 8 of the house, but I can't let it do one thing, 9 and that is, overwhelm my sense of obligation to 10 the people who benefit from the actions of this 11 house. 12 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 13 Will the Senator yield to a question? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Not at this 15 time, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 refuses to yield, Senator Daly. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It seems to 19 me that when we elevate the house and the 20 institution over the need of the public that 21 it's supposed to serve, we do our public and our 22 constituents a great disservice. 23 My hope is that we won't hold 3201 1 Carl McCall a house hostage; that we won't hold 2 him a hostage to this house and what it believes 3 is its institutional need that overwhelms the 4 needs of our constituents. Because our 5 constituents have an important need; and that is 6 the need for the transformation of political 7 power. We in this country have a long 8 constitutional history at the federal level that 9 emphasizes transitions of power. When there are 10 vacancies in the most important office in this 11 country, we don't wait a week. We don't wait 12 ten days. We don't wait two weeks. 13 Lyndon Baines Johnson was sworn 14 in as the President after the death of John 15 Kennedy in an hour. Richard Nixon resigned. 16 Gerald Ford was sworn in an hour and a half 17 later. Then what did he do? He appointed some 18 one to be Vice-President. We had a President 19 and a Vice-President of the United States who 20 had never been elected. Why? Because that's 21 what the Constitution -- that's the power that 22 the people gave the government to do. 23 In this state, in this instance, 3202 1 we have a constitution and we have statute. We 2 have a power given to us by the people and we 3 exercise this power. This body exercises that 4 power. The Senate approved a statute that said 5 that it would be filled by a meeting of the 6 houses in "joint ballot." That was the one 7 phrase that Senator Gold properly pointed out 8 that Senator Marchi when he emphasized the two 9 houses forgot the other phrase that immediately 10 follows which is, "by joint ballot." That's the 11 part you forgot. 12 That's how we took the power 13 given to us by the people in the constitution, 14 incorporated it in a statute, and that's the law 15 that we now deal with. We are law makers. We 16 must also be law abiders. Have the respect for 17 the house that passed that law, Public Officers 18 Law, and let's follow it. Respect the wish of 19 the prior house that decided that that was the 20 way to fill this vacancy. The constitution 21 demands it. A prior body adopted it, and we 22 ought to follow it. 23 I will close with one other 3203 1 thought. I recognize what this document is. I 2 recognize that this is your findings of fact and 3 conclusions of law for a judge somewhere. I 4 think it's a transparent attempt to try to tell 5 the judiciary that your opinion about what the 6 law and the constitution are is the only opinion 7 that matters. It's my suggestion to all the 8 members of this house, this resolution seeks to 9 take on even more power. What you are trying to 10 do is tell an independent judiciary how they 11 should resolve what may be a legal issue in this 12 case. I disagree with it. I think it's wrong. 13 I think it's wrong-headed. 14 And I would simply ask all of 15 you. Abide by the will of the people as 16 reflected in the constitution and the wisdom of 17 a prior house that decided this ought to be done 18 by joint ballot. Don't risk the future of this 19 state and its Comptroller, a man who is well 20 qualified and entitled to this permission. 21 Don't risk that. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 23 me, Senator. 3204 1 Senator Daly, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR DALY: I thought the 3 Senator was finishing a statement and I would 4 still like him to yield to a question. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll be 6 finished in one minute, Mr. President, and then 7 I will yield to a question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 refuses to yield at this time, Senator Daly. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd simply 11 ask that you abide by the wishes of a prior 12 house, respect the law that we have in front of 13 us. Let's get the next Comptroller elected. 14 Let's do it the way this body, the Assembly and 15 the Governor in passing that law decided it 16 should be done. We all swore an oath to respect 17 the constitution of the United States, the state 18 of New York, and the laws of that state. Let's 19 fulfill that oath and meet tomorrow morning to 20 elect the Comptroller to fulfill that position. 21 I will yield to a question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Dollinger yields to Senator Daly. Senator 3205 1 yields. 2 SENATOR DALY: Yes. Mr. 3 President. The Senator mentioned the powers of 4 the house, and I wondered about that. I wonder 5 what power does he think the executive branch 6 should have in dictating what this house should 7 do? 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President. As I think I pointed out, there is a 10 constitution that contains the powers vested in 11 this Legislature and in the Executive. In 12 addition, we exercised that power -- this body 13 exercised that power in, I believe, 1909, and 14 then amended the statute in 1949. That's the 15 procedure under which we work. 16 SENATOR DALY: Will the Senator 17 yield for another question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Will you 19 continue to yield? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will 21 continue to yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He does. 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 3206 1 ask does he believe that the executive branch 2 has the right to dictate to this house? In other 3 words, Mr. President, does he not believe that 4 the legislative branch, by constitution, is 5 completely separate and distinct from the 6 executive branch and that this executive branch 7 has no power whatsoever to dictate to this 8 house? Yes or no? 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The answer to 10 that question, Mr. President, I don't believe 11 that's what the constitution says. My colleague 12 the Minority Leader pointed out that the 13 presiding officer of this body is the Lieutenant 14 Governor. That is, I believe, Mr. Minority 15 Leader, either established by constitution or by 16 statute. Because of his position as the 17 presiding officer, he has certain powers and 18 abilities. In my judgment, that's the way the 19 constitution created it, and that's the way the 20 statute provides. 21 We, who are law makers, ought to 22 be law abiders and simply follow those rules 23 established by a people at an earlier time and 3207 1 by a Legislature at an earlier time. 2 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 3 That is the weirdest -- the weirdest conception 4 of the relationship established - 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Point of order, 6 Mr. President. It's not a question. 7 SENATOR DALY: It will be a 8 question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Connor. 11 SENATOR DALY: It will be a 12 question. It will be a question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Daly, are you asking Senator Dollinger to 15 yield? 16 SENATOR DALY: Yes, I am. I'm 17 asking a question. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger, will you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 21 Have you ever heard - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Daly. 3208 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, I will 2 not, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Dollinger refuses to yield, Senator Daly. 5 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. Am 6 I next on the agenda? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, you 8 are, I believe, Senator Daly. 9 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 10 I've heard of some pretty weird interpretations 11 of the constitution, but for someone to stand in 12 this house and tell me that the executive branch 13 has the right to dictate to this house - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Daly. Excuse me just a minute. We have a 16 recording problem. I don't mean to interrupt 17 you. 18 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 19 want this on. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hold up 21 just a minute. 22 Senator Daly, the Chair 23 recognizes you. You have the floor, sir. 3209 1 SENATOR DALY: As I was saying, 2 Mr. President, this is an explanation of the 3 relationship established between the -- by the 4 constitution between the Legislature and the 5 executive branch that is absolutely incredible. 6 I don't believe that any person in this house 7 will tell me that the executive branch has the 8 right and the power to send us a note and say 9 you will meet on such and such an issue on such 10 and such a day. I take strong exception to 11 that, Mr. President. I would like to see, if I 12 may, I will give all of my colleagues on the 13 other side all the opportunities in the world to 14 present me with evidence in days to come of why 15 this holds true. 16 One other question I was going to 17 ask the Senator. When does a house become a 18 house? When does the Senate officially become 19 the Senate? When it was 25 members in 20 attendance? No, Mr. President. The Senate is 21 not the Senate, is not convened, unless it has 22 31 -- 31 members. And our constitution calls 23 for, as we said before, that both houses -- both 3210 1 houses -- will convene in joint session. 2 I read that, Mr. President, to 3 mean the Senate goes in as a house, and that's 4 what Senator Marino was trying to tell our 5 colleagues on the other side; that if we convene 6 tomorrow without the Senate as a house, unless 7 31 members of the Senate are in that other 8 house, what will be done tomorrow will not be 9 done by a joint session of both houses because 10 one house will not be there. And you can have 11 127. You can have 150 votes. But if this 12 Senate Majority is not in that other chamber, 13 you will have an illegal session. 14 I'm not finished, Mr. President, 15 because I've been insulted and I'm upset. 16 I have been accused of being a 17 racist because I stand on principle. I have 18 been accused of not acting -- of acting now, why 19 haven't I acted in ten years? But I have a 20 problem. See, I have a problem that has just 21 arisen out of the hearings, and I read the 22 hearings, Senator. And that apparition, Mr. 23 President, is something called social 3211 1 engineering. 2 I haven't had to face that too 3 much in the last ten years. I haven't heard too 4 much about it. Our present Comptroller did a 5 pretty good job of investing the people's money, 6 the pensioners' money. And I'm sorry. 7 I will not yield, Mr. President. 8 I'm sorry. That concerns me. 9 You are literally attacking one of my 10 principles. I take exception to be called a 11 racist because I have a problem with that. I 12 believe -- and I read -- I got this problem by 13 reading what was said by the people who were 14 interviewed and by Mr. McCall, for whom, by the 15 way, I have absolutely great respect. I like 16 him as a person. I respect him as a man, and 17 let no one ever take exception to that. 18 But he and I have a difference of 19 opinion, which is very important to me, because 20 I think it's more important than the selection 21 -- than the selection of the Comptroller; and 22 that is, the policy we will establish, Mr. 23 President, in the handling of those billions of 3212 1 dollars that pensioners, people have invested 2 for their future to take care of them when they 3 are old and when they retire. And why? It is 4 discriminatory. Why should they be held 5 accountable? Their money. Their money, not the 6 state's money. Why should their money be used 7 for social engineering. That's not their 8 responsibility. That's our responsibility as a 9 Legislature. That's our responsibility as an 10 entire state. 11 And so, Mr. President, that is 12 why -- that's why a new apparition -- a new - 13 we have a new awakening if I can use the Deputy 14 Minority Leader's words that he used on us the 15 other day. We're very concerned about that, and 16 that's why. That's why to us the establishment 17 of a commission to oversee the pensions is 18 important. You see, I believe that the only 19 criteria that should be used in determining how 20 the pensioners' monies are invested is the 21 safety of the investment and the return on 22 investment. 23 Now, you might disagree with me. 3213 1 I'm sure you do, and I respect you for it, but I 2 would hope you would respect me for what I 3 believe, and I take very strong, very great 4 exception, going back to my original, on being 5 literally -- literally, I think I was -- it was 6 not implied. I think it was more than implied. 7 It was used. 8 There were some cheap shots over 9 there too. Cheap shots. I'm not a racist. 10 I'll stand on my principle. This I believe in, 11 and I don't give a damn the color of a man's 12 skin, his religion, and whatever. 13 And let me go back and say, 14 because I like this man. I like Mr. McCall. I 15 have great respect for him. I might agree with 16 you he'd be a good appointment. I'm not going 17 to say that for the record. But let me tell you 18 this. I think we stand on very substantial 19 ground, Mr. President. The Senate is right. 20 I respect the integrity of this 21 house. I know you do on that side of the aisle, 22 but that integrity has been violated. The 23 executive branch has spoken ex cathedra, and it 3214 1 said from on high that you will meet. You will 2 meet. 3 I refuse to listen to the 4 executive branch, Mr. President. This is my 5 house. This is my branch, and I'm going to 6 defend it. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Gold, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman 11 yield to a question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Daly, will you yield to a question? 14 SENATOR DALY: Yes, sir, I will. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Daly yields. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Daly, I 18 thought I heard you say that we could not have a 19 meeting unless there were a majority of the 20 members of this house present. 21 SENATOR DALY: Yes, sir, you 22 heard me say that. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Was that your 3215 1 comment? 2 SENATOR DALY: Oh, you can have a 3 meeting. You can have a meeting with no one 4 from this house present. I would sincerely 5 question the legality of that joint session in 6 this case. 7 SENATOR GOLD: If the Senator 8 will yield to a question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Will you 10 yield, Senator Daly? 11 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, let me 13 read you just a couple of sentences. I think 14 it's only one sentence from the court's decision 15 in Krupsak -- in Anderson versus Krupsak, 1976, 16 Court of Appeals, "to require that a majority of 17 each house be present at a joint session would 18 permit the statute to be too easily frustrated 19 particularly as here were or an originally dead 20 locked result from a political division of the 21 house." 22 Senator. Senator, forgetting the 23 issue of calling the session, won't you at least 3216 1 concede to me that if the session is called 2 properly -- get past that -- that at that point 3 we're meeting as one house and a quorum is a 4 quorum? I mean the Court of Appeals couldn't 5 have made that any clearer; otherwise, a 6 minority of the 211 votes -- and you will accede 7 to me, I'm sure, that 35 people here is a 8 minority of 211 -- would be able to frustrate 9 everything else by just not showing up? 10 SENATOR DALY: That's the end of 11 the question. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 13 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 14 The Senator uses apples and oranges, talking 15 about a completely different case. It's a 16 completely different situation dealing with the 17 Regents. It does not apply in this case, and I 18 don't believe he can legitimately use that as an 19 excuse and to tell us that if they meet tomorrow 20 without a majority of this house in attendance 21 that that will not be an illegal 22 convocation. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield 3217 1 to a question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Daly, will you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 does. 7 SENATOR GOLD: I have just one 8 more question here, and then I have one other, 9 if you don't mind. Senator, I'm not getting 10 involved in how the meeting occurred with the 11 Regents or anybody else, but the court is making 12 a different ruling here. The court is saying 13 that once you are meeting at one house, no 14 matter where you come from, if you were to 15 require -- and that's what Warren Anderson 16 argued. Warren Anderson said you can not have a 17 session unless there is a majority of our house 18 that concur. And the court said no, no. Once 19 you have a session, you can't be in a position 20 where 35 people can frustrate a legally called 21 211-person session. 22 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 3218 1 SENATOR DALY: May I ask -- but 2 the contention I'm making, Mr. President, is 3 that this meeting is not legally called. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, that's 5 another issue. Another issue. 6 SENATOR DALY: Okay. 7 SENATOR GOLD: My last question, 8 Senator Daly, is simply this. You said, and I'm 9 glad you said it, that with regard to the 10 pension fund there are people whose lives depend 11 upon it, people who in their old age depend upon 12 it, and they shouldn't be concerned. 13 Doesn't it bother you, Senator, 14 having said that, that your Majority Leader is 15 trying to pass a bill which gives those people 16 nothing to say about it, that would create a 17 board where the Governor and the Comptroller and 18 two political leaders of the Legislature have 19 the appointments, and none of the labor 20 organizations or the municipalities are 21 involved? Isn't that directly contrary to your 22 philosophy? 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 3219 1 It's certainly not contrary to Senator Gold's 2 because he's about to select one who will not be 3 elected by the people. 4 SENATOR GOLD: It's according to 5 the constitution. 6 SENATOR DALY: I'm not finished 7 answering my question. No. 8 Mr. President, I do believe the 9 Comptroller will play a very vital role in that 10 group. I believe for this reason. But for 11 other reasons which I will not refer to at the 12 present time because they entail some other 13 problems that I see that I believe that a 14 commission so established would be in the best 15 interests of the people and do a better job in 16 protecting their interests. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Will you 18 yield, Senator Daly? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Ohrenstein. Senator Daly, do you yield to 21 Senator Ohrenstein? 22 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I certainly 3220 1 listened to your impassioned plea about your 2 principles and your deep belief, and I don't 3 question you. 4 SENATOR DALY: I have respect for 5 you, too, sir. 6 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Tell me how 7 come, then, if you have such intense need to 8 protect the pensioners, which we all agree on, 9 how come this house has never passed a bill 10 which would change the methodology by which that 11 protection is effectuated? Never. 12 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 13 wish we had. I wish we had. 14 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Why did you 15 wait -- forgive me. Why did you wait until we 16 came up with a candidate? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Ohrenstein. 19 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 20 did not wait. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Daly, will you yield to a question from Senator 23 Ohrenstein? 3221 1 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I apologize. 2 SENATOR DALY: I did not wait. 3 If you will note, sir, go back in your mail, and 4 you will find out. You will find a notice that 5 we were trying to hold a hearing on exactly that 6 question. I have been talking about this thing 7 for quite a long time. You have to take my word 8 for that, but the fact that we tried to 9 establish hearings just for that very question 10 of questioning what criteria should be used in 11 the determination of how the people's money 12 should be invested. 13 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: May I ask 14 you to yield one more time? 15 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I certainly 19 don't question your sincerity, and I don't 20 question that you called the hearing, and I 21 don't question that you sincerely wish to do 22 this. All I know is for all these years it 23 hasn't been done. Why do you think it's going 3222 1 to be done before we select the next Comptroller 2 pursuant to law? 3 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. As 4 I said, I thought, when I was speaking before 5 that truly the question of social engineering in 6 the use of pension funds has become -- has 7 become a major issue that was not there before. 8 This, above all, has caught my attention, and 9 certainly made me aware of something that 10 perhaps subconsciously I was aware of before, 11 but now I really am aware of a significant 12 problem that I can see occurring unless we take 13 action. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Lack, on the resolution. 16 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. Senator Gold, I listened to your 18 recitation of the sentence in Anderson v. 19 Krupsak and, indeed, Senator Gold, you are 20 correct, particularly when you say "frustrate 21 the statute," and the issue in Anderson v. 22 Krupsak was not holding the joint session on the 23 day certain called for, for the election of the 3223 1 Regent, frustrated the statute. 2 So any member of this body or to 3 any body, I ask you what statute, with what day 4 certain is being frustrated using the Anderson 5 v. Krupsak doctrine for the election or 6 appointment of a new Comptroller of the state of 7 New York. Certainly not Public Officers Law 8 Section 41 which doesn't provide a day certain. 9 So it is totally distinguishable. 10 What do we have here? We have, I 11 assume -- and if the Senate Minority was not 12 included in the meetings, I guess it's because 13 your colleagues in the Assembly kept you out of 14 the loop. Well, if they kept you out of the 15 loop, I'm sorry. But, obviously, there were 16 some secret meetings that took place between the 17 Assembly and the Lieutenant Governor of this 18 state. Now, maybe you knew about it and maybe 19 you didn't know about it. But since I and only 20 some of my colleagues got a piece of paper that 21 was jointly signed by Speaker Weprin and 22 Lieutenant Governor Lundine, at least the two of 23 them knew they were signing the same piece of 3224 1 paper. I'll assume that all of you knew, as 2 well. Now, if that's the case - 3 You knew? Thank you. Senator 4 Ohrenstein and Senator Gold are indicating that 5 they knew. 6 Now, if that's the case, why was 7 Lieutenant Governor Lundine utilized? 8 Obviously, you picked up Anderson v. Krupsak 9 and said, "oh, look, we don't have to go to the 10 Senate Majority. We can, using Anderson v. 11 Krupsak, a case involving a Regent with a 12 statute that sets a day certain for a joint 13 session, utilize that and ignore, ignore the 14 Majority, ignore the Senate." 15 Now, I can't really blame Speaker 16 Weprin. He is Speaker of the Assembly. I don't 17 even know how much I can blame Lieutenant 18 Governor Lundine, because he is the Lieutenant 19 Governor and a member of the executive. But for 20 shame, my colleagues in the Senate Minority, if 21 you certainly wanted to not frustrate the 22 statute, Senator Gold, but frustrate the 23 institution of the Senate of the state of New 3225 1 York. 2 I listened to Senator Dollinger. 3 And I remember last week, Senator, in another 4 debate -- excuse me for not remembering the bill 5 -- that you prided yourself on being a 6 constitutional scholar. I am not, so you will 7 have to forgive me, Senator Dollinger, if I 8 don't get it all correctly. 9 But as I read Article IV, Section 10 6 of the constitution of the state of New York 11 as to the powers of the Lieutenant Governor, it 12 says, "He shall be the President of the Senate 13 but shall have only a casting vote therein." 14 Now, Senator Dollinger, since I'm not a 15 constitutional scholar and you are, I assume, 16 other than that sentence, you can point to me 17 some place in the constitution that further 18 defines the powers of the Lieutenant Governor in 19 terms of his ability to be President of the 20 Senate. I assume, Senator Dollinger, that you 21 can find, because I can not, some other section 22 in the constitution of the state of New York 23 which delineates the duties of the Lieutenant 3226 1 Governor, when he serves as President of the 2 Senate, other than what the sentence says after 3 the word, "but shall only have a casting vote 4 therein." Because as I read that, Senator, it 5 says, Lieutenant Governor, you can call yourself 6 President of the Senate. You can sit up there, 7 but the only thing you can do in this house is 8 have a casting vote therein. 9 And then, Senator Dollinger, as 10 we look at Article III, Section 9 of the 11 constitution, it says "Powers of Each House." 12 Let me read it for you, if I may. I know as a 13 constitutional scholar, you know it far better 14 than I do. But for those of us who are not, I'd 15 like to read it, anyway. "A majority of each 16 house shall constitute a quorum to do business. 17 Each house shall determine the rules of its own 18 proceedings and be the judge of election returns 19 and qualification of its own members; shall 20 choose its own officers," oh boy, "and the 21 Senate shall choose a Temporary President, and 22 the Assembly shall choose a Speaker." 23 I got a piece of paper 3227 1 yesterday. On one side was the signature block 2 of the Speaker of the New York State Assembly. 3 On the other side was the Lieutenant Governor 4 purporting to act as President of the Senate. 5 No, I won't yield right now, 6 Senator. You will get your time in a moment. 7 Purporting to act as President of 8 the Senate. I can only assume by that that 9 somebody or some bodies made a decision that 10 equates the powers of the Speaker of the New 11 York State Assembly with that of the President 12 of the New York State Senate. That, Senator, is 13 not my reading of the constitution, specifically 14 where it says the Assembly shall choose a 15 Speaker and the Senate shall choose a Temporary 16 President. Obviously, and this was last done in 17 1938 and amended in 1963, so obviously in our 18 last two constitutional conventions, both, this 19 particular section was looked at. Obviously, 20 the framers of that section of the constitution 21 were equating the Speaker of the Assembly with 22 the Temporary President of the Senate, and it's 23 those two signatures that are required to cause 3228 1 a joint meeting to both houses. 2 Obviously, since Senator 3 Ohrenstein and Senator Gold were part of the 4 papers and the meetings that were then sent to 5 every member of the house, you all would agree 6 that to have a joint meeting of the Assembly and 7 the Senate, the Senate has to be called to that 8 meeting. And I defy any of you to show me where 9 in the constitution it is the power of the 10 Lieutenant Governor of this state, acting as 11 President of the Senate but only doing a casting 12 vote therein, it gives him the power to call a 13 joint session involving this house and 14 encumbering the majority of the members of this 15 house to a meeting. Wherein, Senator Gold, if 16 it actually did take place and everybody was 17 there, conceivably there would be an arguable 18 precedent as to Anderson v. Krupsak, but it's 19 not taking place. 20 It's not taking place because 21 we're not there, and we've announced we're not 22 going. And it's not out of disrespect to Carl 23 McCall. It's out of disrespect to the manner by 3229 1 which the Democrats in the Senate and the 2 Assembly and obviously in the executive decided 3 to call the meeting. There was no announcement 4 by Speaker Weprin, "Senator Marino is refusing 5 to come to a meeting, therefore, I have to look 6 for an alternative to have a joint session in 7 order to get Carl McCall installed as 8 Comptroller of the state of New York as soon as 9 possible." 10 I have been up here all week. 11 Did I miss that press release? Did I miss that 12 statement from the Speaker in which he said we 13 can not deal with the Senate Majority Leader; 14 therefore, I have to look for alternative 15 means? 16 Senator Ohrenstein, did you call 17 the Senate Majority Leader and say, "I have been 18 informed by the Speaker that the houses cannot 19 reach agreement on when or how to have a joint 20 session; and, therefore, we are looking for 21 alternative means?" 22 Senator Gold, did you? Both of 23 you have indicated you knew about this manner by 3230 1 which this session was going to take place. 2 Did anybody bother to call the 3 Senate Majority Leader and say, "You're being 4 obstructionist; you're not acting in good faith, 5 you are not doing anything; you are not coming 6 to a joint session that we want to call on 7 Wednesday?" 8 No. No. All you did is tiptoe 9 in secrecy in to the Lieutenant Governor and 10 say, "Here, Lieutenant Governor Lundine. Sign 11 this piece of paper and we'll Xerox it, and 12 we'll send it to everybody, ha-ha-ha. They're 13 going to come to a joint session." 14 And that's what this session this 15 evening, unfortunately, at 11:15, is about 16 because of the procedures you felt like adopting 17 as you, thinking this is some kind of unicameral 18 Legislature that we're going to be called into 19 joint session without proper action involving 20 the Senate. 21 There's nobody in this Senate 22 that is objecting to a proper call for a joint 23 session. Nobody is not acknowledging. We've 3231 1 all read the newspapers. We all know how to 2 count. We've all waited with baited breath, 3 just as you have for Speaker Weprin to announce 4 his choice as Comptroller of the state of New 5 York. We understand that. We're not saying we 6 wouldn't be there. We're just saying that in 7 order to be there, you're got to agree with the 8 Senate and call a proper joint session. 9 So it's not woe be unto us that 10 we're trying to damage the credit rating of the 11 state of New York. We didn't slink into the 12 Lieutenant Governor's office and hand him a 13 piece of paper to surreptitiously sign and to be 14 secretly Xeroxed and sent to only some of the 15 members in the Majority, but not all, in this 16 house. That was not our doing. That was your 17 doing, or at least your participation in how it 18 was done. 19 We stand ready under proper call 20 and to preserve the integrity of this 21 institution, the Senate of New York, to have a 22 joint session with the Assembly and to elect the 23 next Comptroller. And we're all here and ready 3232 1 to do just that but under the procedures that 2 are proper for this house, not just for you but 3 for this house, all of us, you and us. 4 And when that happens, we're 5 happy to have a joint session. Until then, 6 you're right, there is a problem. There is a 7 problem because this resolution says, in our 8 opinion, the confirmation of a Comptroller not 9 called as to a proper call for a joint session 10 is without legal merit and is null and void; and 11 further, that actions taken by that person, 12 regardless of who he or she may be, is without 13 legal effect. And yes, that raises some very 14 serious legal questions, and I would hope 15 serious enough legal questions that Speaker 16 Weprin and Minority Leader Ohrenstein would cut 17 it out, would cut it out, and say to the 18 Temporary President, the duly elected Temporary 19 President pursuant to the constitution of the 20 state of New York of the New York State Senate, 21 "Let's have a proper joint session." Let's get 22 together. Let's have that session, and let's 23 elect, according to the rules of the joint 3233 1 session, a new Comptroller of the state of New 2 York that all of us can take pride in that it 3 was properly done, not slinking around and doing 4 it behind closed doors in secret. 5 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Tully, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR TULLY: Will Senator Lack 9 yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Lack, will you yield? 12 SENATOR LACK: Yes, Senator 13 Tully. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 yields. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 17 Senator. Mr. President. Senator Lack, you are 18 familiar with the resolution before us this 19 evening? 20 SENATOR LACK: Yes, I am. 21 SENATOR TULLY: Is there anything 22 in the resolution dealing with a vacancy on the 23 Board of Regents? 3234 1 SENATOR LACK: No, Senator, there 2 is not. 3 SENATOR TULLY: Does it deal with 4 a joint session for the purpose of filling a 5 vacancy in the office of state Comptroller? 6 SENATOR LACK: Yes, pursuant to 7 Section 41 of the Public Officers Law and the 8 constitution of the state of New York. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Senator Lack, I 10 know you are familiar with the rules of the 11 Senate, are you not? 12 SENATOR LACK: Yes. 13 SENATOR TULLY: There was some 14 reference made earlier to the effect that we 15 should respect the law as members of this body. 16 Some reference was made, I take it, that we also 17 respect the rules of this house. 18 SENATOR LACK: Correct, Senator. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Are you familiar 20 with the rules of this house? 21 SENATOR LACK: Yes, I am. 22 SENATOR TULLY: Did you know, 23 Senator Lack, that you previously made reference 3235 1 to the state constitution and the powers of the 2 Lieutenant Governor in this house, and did you 3 know that in Rule I, Section 1, exactly what you 4 mentioned in the state constitution is contained 5 here in the rules of the house; that the 6 Lieutenant Governor of the state shall be 7 President of the Senate but shall only have a 8 casting vote therein? Did you know that, 9 Senator? 10 SENATOR LACK: Yes, I did, 11 Senator. 12 SENATOR TULLY: I am glad that 13 everyone else knows it now, too. 14 Thank you, Senator. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, 16 Senator. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 18 Lack yield? 19 SENATOR LACK: Yes, Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The provision 22 of the constitution that you cited, Senator 23 Lack, and the provision that was just read by 3236 1 Senator Tully, as I understand it, under your 2 interpretation, provides that the only thing in 3 the Senate the Lieutenant Governor can do is 4 cast a vote in the case of a tie. Is that 5 correct? 6 SENATOR LACK: That is the 7 provision I read, Article IV, Section 6. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Just 9 for my edification, and the question is, where 10 does he get the authority to preside at the 11 meetings? 12 SENATOR LACK: Excuse me? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Where does he 14 get that authority, do you know? 15 SENATOR LACK: It's in our rules 16 and which he can do as President of the Senate. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's also 18 contained in the New York State constitution, is 19 it not? 20 SENATOR LACK: Only the -- well, 21 Senator, I quoted you the one sentence in the 22 New York State constitution. I acknowledged - 23 wait a minute, Senator, I'll finish the answer. 3237 1 I acknowledged your status as a 2 constitutional scholar and asked if you knew any 3 other sentence in the constitution that pertains 4 to the powers of the Lieutenant Governor other 5 than that sentence. Since I only know that one 6 sentence, unless you know something I don't, 7 that's the sentence. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question 9 again, Mr. President, through you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 11 continue to yield, Senator Lack? 12 SENATOR LACK: Yes. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Where does he 14 get the power to wield the gavel in this 15 chamber? 16 SENATOR LACK: From the rules 17 adopted by this house. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And they are 19 identical to the constitution, are they not? 20 SENATOR LACK: Excuse me? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: They are 22 identical to the constitution, are they not? 23 SENATOR LACK: No, the rules are 3238 1 not identical to the constitution. The only 2 thing that's identical to the constitution is 3 the section Senator Tully just quoted to me 4 which quotes in our own rules the constitution. 5 Other than that, our rules are our rules. I 6 believe Rule II would help you. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Lack 8 yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Lack, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You are not 12 aware of anything that further restricts any 13 power the Lieutenant Governor would have as the 14 presiding officer of this chamber, are you? 15 SENATOR LACK: Yes. The rules of 16 this chamber restrict the power of the 17 Lieutenant Governor. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 19 through you, Mr. President. Can you just tell 20 me what specific rule? 21 SENATOR LACK: Rule II and every 22 rule restricts the powers of the Lieutenant 23 Governor as to how he shall preside, what he 3239 1 shall do. Senator Dollinger, this could really 2 probably go on. We've had all sorts of 3 challenges. There are bodies of law based on 4 precedent and rulings by Lieutenant Governors 5 which bind them as presiding officers, et 6 cetera. There are all sorts of -- there are 7 ways in which Robert's Rules of Order when there 8 is no specific rule takes over, and it requires 9 the conduct of this house. There are all sorts 10 of rules. There were even proper dress codes 11 which existed at one time in this Senate, which 12 obviously are not followed now for which I 13 assume the Lieutenant Governor, acting as 14 President and standing up there, threw somebody 15 out of the chamber because they weren't in a 16 morning coat or something. 17 But, in any event, Senator, it's 18 all done through the rules of this chamber 19 which, by the way, Senator, is adopted by this 20 chamber. 21 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Tully, why do you rise? 3240 1 SENATOR TULLY: Will Senator Lack 2 yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Lack, will you yield to Senator Tully? 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Senator Lack, is 7 there anything in the rules of the Senate that 8 gives the Lieutenant Governor the right to 9 convene a joint session of the Senate and the 10 Assembly? 11 SENATOR LACK: No, Senator. In 12 my opinion that would violate Article III, 13 Section 9, of the constitution. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 15 Senator. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Padavan, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Debate began at 19 9:22. If I look at that clock, it's 11:22. I'm 20 therefore moving to close debate. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 23 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 3241 1 SENATOR GOLD: Just to really 2 urge Senator Padavan not to do it. Because if 3 we are really going to go that way when there is 4 just a few more people to speak, that motion is 5 going to take a slow roll call with everybody 6 explaining their vote, and it would be a lot 7 longer than just letting this important debate 8 go to a natural conclusion. 9 I don't want to do that, Senator 10 Padavan. People have spoken and have had the 11 attention of the floor, and they've done what 12 they've got to do. I would like to respect the 13 people who may be on that list who haven't done 14 it. So I'm asking you as a gentleman to 15 withdraw that request. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Padavan, this is a motion that's made if you 19 continue to offer it that is non-debatable. You 20 understand that. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Exactly. And 22 what I would like to suggest, Mr. President, 23 having made the motion, that while it's true 3242 1 that during the course of a vote, members will 2 have an opportunity, Senator, to speak as they 3 obviously have the right to do. However, it's 4 not my desire to prevent anybody from being 5 heard, but I do feel that this issue has been 6 discussed fully. 7 I will withdraw my motion, but I 8 do reserve the right to present it again. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Appreciate the 10 courtesy. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Continuing on the list, the next speaker that 13 the Chair has is Senator Galiber. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. I will attempt to be brief. 16 This is a sad evening and almost 17 a very sad morning for us. Senator Daly, you 18 talked about the house. There are those of us 19 here like Senator Marchi and a few others of us 20 who remember when this house was truly a home. 21 That doesn't exist any longer. 22 I'm concerned about gimmicks. 23 I'm concerned with what type of message we will 3243 1 be sending out to this great state of ours. 2 Senator, we know that this cauldron of racism 3 does, in fact, exist in this great state of 4 ours. You just pick up the papers any day, any 5 day of the week, and you can see this. 6 But can you imagine the message 7 that we are sending to New York State residents? 8 That here for the first time in the history of 9 our state, we have a man of color, with dignity 10 and distinction, a man who is a minister, a man 11 who was an ambassador, a man who shared this 12 chamber with us with dignity when it was, in 13 fact, a home, a man who was president of the 14 board of education, a man who is vice-president 15 of one of our major institutions, banking 16 institutions, in this state. 17 Troubles me, Senator Marchi, 18 troubles me, colleagues. The message that is 19 attached to it, that when this man and those who 20 believe, that work hard to make a success of 21 yourself and we will adopt you and we'll see to 22 it that you progress, we're sending a message if 23 your skin color isn't white, we're going to 3244 1 change the rules and that's what we're 2 attempting to do here, change the rules. 3 I'll leave the constitutional 4 arguments to those who are better qualified to 5 do so, but I've been here long enough to know 6 that we can use arguments as shields or swords. 7 Constitution included. We can either hide 8 behind it or we can cut you up with it, and I 9 fear that these arguments tonight will be 10 interpreted merely as just loose conversation by 11 those here in this house and the other house. 12 But to the general population, what it's going 13 to mean that this body, this institution, is 14 saying to the entire state of New York, to those 15 who slowly come through the system, that if you 16 make it we're going to change the rules. 17 That is my feeling, and racism is 18 something that we throw around from time to time 19 and like sexism and age-ism, it's tough to 20 accept and collectively this will be interpreted 21 as a racist act and racism is a pejorative 22 adjective which calls on some bad connotations. 23 It says that those of a certain race believe 3245 1 that their race is better than some other race. 2 It differs from racial discrimination. Racial 3 discrimination is a mere practice, a practice of 4 something that you do not like, and I speak to 5 you because I love most of you. I used to love 6 you all, but some have become so ugly I can't 7 find any love any longer. But most of you I 8 do. 9 I would like to sit in, if you 10 will, not tap your conversation, those who stick 11 their chest out and say "I'm not this" and "I'm 12 not that," just to sit in on your conference, 13 but not the skin color, neutral, and to hear 14 what you say about those of us on this side of 15 the aisle who are with color and when the good 16 Majority Leader -- good friend and love him - 17 suggests that this has been out for three or 18 four days, the fact that we were going to object 19 and Senator Gold hit it on the head when he said 20 that you are shrewd political persons, not 21 politicians, shrewd political persons. 22 I know how to put something out 23 if we know the count, if there's going to be two 3246 1 or three persons in that race, you can put it 2 out very easily, the message, colleagues, that 3 we're sending out is so horrible, so very 4 horrible. I sat here and listened and I was 5 going to waive, very frankly, but I was hoping 6 that something would come out in the course of 7 the discussion, of the debate, because there's 8 one or two alternatives here. 9 Either you are bitter enders, but 10 you're sore losers, as you know, because you've 11 been in the Majority so long that you don't know 12 how it feels to be in the Minority. I've been 13 here 20-some-odd years in a double minority, 14 black and a Democrat. You don't know, and I was 15 hoping that as this debate went on, that we 16 would really be able to accuse you of being 17 bitter enders. It hasn't developed that way. 18 Unfortunately, how it has 19 developed that you are sending a message out 20 with a qualified person, with all the 21 credentials and all the background who incident 22 ally happens to be black African-American. 23 You're sending out a message. When it gets into 3247 1 the position where that person gets in or she 2 gets into a position, let's change the rules. 3 Colleagues, the battle ribbons of 4 earlier wars will not win the battles of the 5 day. Things are changing, and we are negatively 6 contributing to the racism that exists in this 7 state of ours and our country, in our cities 8 where racial hatred has all of a sudden sprung 9 up again. You're ig... pardon me; you're 10 ignoring this factor, through the children that 11 are not being educated who listen to us. 12 The daughters day last week, 13 wouldn't it be shameful if those daughters that 14 we brought here last week were sitting here this 15 week? What a shame! What a shame! The old TV 16 program we see in New York, Shame on You, Shame 17 on You. Because of the message. 18 So, Senator Daly, I recall when 19 this house was a home, when this house was a 20 home, when the Earl Brydges and the ghosts of 21 Brydges and the ghosts of Zaretzki and the 22 ghosts of other leaders here floating around 23 tonight, and they're saying the same as I am 3248 1 saying. Shame on the institution, because 2 that's what this was, an institution. 3 It is no longer that. It is 4 little tricks of groups of persons, and I've 5 always said this, and I still say this, 6 individually I have not a problem with anyone on 7 that side and a few on this side. It's 8 collectively where I have the problem, 9 collectively, because collectively we do some 10 bad things. 11 So, ladies and gentlemen and 12 colleagues, this is a sad, sad day because all 13 these things that I have mentioned do exist. 14 Racism is alive and doing well. Racial 15 discrimination is still a practice and doing 16 horrible, and to hide behind some procedural 17 process, a Constitution -- when, for heaven's 18 sake, have we ever been concerned in the 25 19 years that I've been here about a Constitution? 20 We say, Let's pass it and test it. If need be, 21 we'll amend it. 22 Why is it then, colleagues, that 23 when we have a qualified person, a minister, an 3249 1 ambassador, a former colleague, a president of a 2 bank, president of a board of education, we 3 can't say, let's put him in and then let's go to 4 court. Why can't we do that? Know why? 5 Because, unfortunately, it wasn't the first 6 thought that I would believe that you were just 7 suffering because you were in the minority, you 8 won't do it because of the nature of the person 9 who is to be put in there, and that's the 10 horrible message, whether in your heart's heart, 11 you mean to do so or no, the message that you 12 are sending is a horrible, horrible message for 13 the future. 14 Please, colleagues, if this is 15 not the way you wish to go, put him in. Then go 16 to court and at least that would be following 17 the same procedure that you have talked to or 18 talked about so very long. 19 Thank you for your time. 20 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator Galiber 21 yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Galiber, will you yield to Senator Velella? 3250 1 SENATOR GALIBER: Colleague from 2 Westchester County any time. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 yields. 5 SENATOR VELELLA: From Bronx 6 County, Senator; let's not forget our roots. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: You're the one 8 who forgot my roots last time, not me. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I'm a 10 little surprised at what I hear you saying to 11 night and I'd like to ask you this question: Do 12 you honestly in your heart believe that the 13 colleagues you've spoken about individually on 14 this side of the aisle who occasionally have 15 helped you along and some of your other 16 colleagues on that side of the aisle actually 17 made the decision based on Carl McCall's race 18 that they were going to take this action, or do 19 you believe it would have happened either way? 20 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm saying that 21 individually I would be even further saddened if 22 we can pick out individuals, at least those who 23 are quiet about it, individuals again I'm not 3251 1 too concerned about, but collectively, because, 2 Senator, what you have really said is that some 3 of my best friends are, haven't we helped you? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Therefore - 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Let me finish. 6 You asked a question; let me finish, and that's 7 an old lousy cliche of purposes -- persons who 8 don't understand. Some of my best friends are 9 -- I have a next door neighbor, I can eke out a 10 little love, but not when you come next door to 11 me, live down the block. 12 Whether you help me or not, it's 13 been a mutual understanding. I've tried to help 14 you; I don't mean you personally but in the 15 general sense. We don't have the votes over 16 here to help you. We don't have the votes. 17 Senator, I mean we won't get into 18 it. We went to a committee meeting today and 19 they said, Where does non-participation -- I'm 20 running off a little bit -- and they say this is 21 the last day, next week, for bills. I looked at 22 the calendar, there is not a Democratic bill 23 there in all the committees. 3252 1 You had - 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, that 3 was white and black Democrats, correct? 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator - 5 SENATOR VELELLA: White and black 6 Democrats didn't have any bills on; right? 7 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, wait 8 until I finish. I can't out-talk you. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Yeah. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Maybe I can, 11 yeah, but let me finish. Let me finish. 12 The fact of the matter is that 13 was all a bit off the track. But there's not a 14 participatory involvement here. 15 But back to your question. 16 Senator, I'm not talking individually. If the 17 shoe fits, wear it. Secondly, I'm your best 18 friend, but don't use me as a black, say some of 19 my best friends are, I've helped you and it 20 borders -- borders on being racist. Borders, 21 not actually but borders, comes closer to racial 22 discrimination perhaps. 23 I hope that answers your 3253 1 question, Senator. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator, 3 I'm going to try to ask it a different way. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Please do. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 6 continue to yield, Senator Galiber? 7 SENATOR GALIBER: Sure. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Do you believe 9 that the same action would have been taken by 10 the Majority in this house had Carol Bellamy 11 been the nominee, or do you really believe that 12 it's only because it's Carl McCall? 13 SENATOR GALIBER: I believe, very 14 frankly, that the procedure that you're taking 15 now could have very well have happened as far as 16 Carol Bellamy is concerned. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Very welcome. 20 SENATOR VELELLA: That's the only 21 point I want to make, Senator. That's the 22 point. I appreciate that answer. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: It just becomes 3254 1 a question of intensity. I would have argued, 2 very frankly, argued the same way only from 3 another vantage point, because I'm certainly not 4 female. 5 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, how 6 about one more question, Senator? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 8 me, Senator Galiber, Senator Velella. Senator 9 Galiber, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR VELELLA: One last 11 question. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: No, no, no. 13 When you snap your finger, I interpret that as 14 doubting what I am and, since you snapped your 15 finger, I don't want to yield to you right now. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 refuses... 18 SENATOR VELELLA: I snapped my 19 finger? 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, you snapped 21 your fingers. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: That was just a 23 thought I - 3255 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Velella, Senator Galiber. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Oh, if that's a 4 thought, fine, Senator, go right ahead, ask the 5 question. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: No, I went like 7 that; I don't know whatever -- I think maybe - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Galiber, gentlemen, let's get a little order 10 here. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: I can't hear 12 him. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Please, 14 through the Chair. Senator Velella. 15 SENATOR VELELLA: Would you yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Galiber, Senator Velella is asking if you 18 yield. Do you yield, sir? 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Oh, sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: You've 23 indicated you made the speech for Carl McCall, 3256 1 and you probably would have made the same speech 2 for Carol Bellamy because she might have been 3 discriminated against by our side for other 4 prejudicial reasons in your mind. 5 How about Joey Lentol, would you 6 have made the same speech if we took that action 7 for Joey Lentol? 8 SENATOR GALIBER: I can only deal 9 in the world of reality. There were two 10 contenders. Whether I would have talked the 11 same way for Joey Lentol - 12 SENATOR VELELLA: I think my 13 point is well made, Senator. You're asking for 14 preferential treatment, in my opinion. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: Most of my 16 friends who have racial tendencies usually use 17 either "my best friends are", or your argument. 18 Any other questions? 19 Thank you for your time, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 22 recognizes Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I pass. 3257 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leichter passes. 3 Senator Connor. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you. 5 Thank you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 7 you, Senator Leichter. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: I will be very, 9 very brief, but I have a few thoughts and I'll 10 try not to repeat anything that's so -- I -- I 11 feel superbly elucidated by the Minority Leader, 12 Deputy Minority Leader and my colleagues here. 13 But I'll give you a couple thoughts. 14 You say how can this Senate meet 15 anywhere without a Majority voting to do so or 16 the Temporary President acting? Well, you know, 17 we all take an oath. We swear to uphold the 18 Constitution of the state of New York and to 19 follow its laws. We read the Constitution and 20 every two years after an election, the 21 Constitution tells us we have to be up here on a 22 Wednesday early in January. We all get here. 23 We don't have a Majority Leader then. We don't 3258 1 have a Secretary of the Senate. We don't have a 2 Sergeant-of-Arms. But we arrive here and when 3 31 people show up, the Lt. Governor pounds the 4 gavel, not by leave of a Majority Leader, not by 5 leave of any other official in this Senate. He 6 stands up there, when he sees 31 members, he 7 calls the session to order because the 8 Constitution makes him the presiding officer, 9 and the Constitution says we ought to meet and 10 certainly a quorum of this body recognizes their 11 own responsibility as Senators to come to the 12 meeting, come to the session and then, when 13 we've come together in a quorum and the Lt. 14 Governor has called us to order, only after that 15 do we adopt rules, elect a Majority Leader, 16 elect a Sergeant-of-Arms, elect a Secretary and 17 have officers as a house, and for those first 18 few days in January, this Senator has -- this 19 Senate has but one officer, the Lt. Governor. 20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Daly. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: When I'm 3259 1 finished, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He 3 refuses to yield. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Now, just the 5 thought, you know, before there's a Majority, 6 there's a Senate, you know. Someone said 7 earlier we've got this notice commanding us to 8 go. Well, no one in this state or in this 9 Legislature has gotten a notice commanding 10 anything since they threw out George III. 11 You got an announcement putting 12 you on notice that legislators are meeting, and 13 you know what? If less than 106 members show up, 14 I agree there's no meeting, but you all know 15 where it is. You all got a notice of the time 16 and place, just like you get from reading the 17 Constitution. Nobody sends you a letter and 18 says you got to be here in January, you know 19 that's the day, and if a quorum shows up, you 20 have a legal meeting, and I suggest to you that 21 if a quorum doesn't show up tomorrow, you don't 22 have a legal meeting. If a quorum does show up 23 you do have a legal meeting, and the fact of the 3260 1 matter is that's what the notice is, an attempt 2 to let everybody know, if enough people show up, 3 if everybody shows up we do have a meeting and 4 nobody is excluded. Every member can show up. 5 Now, we hear all this stuff. 6 Now, I've been ranking member on the Civil 7 Service and Pensions Committee for fifteen and a 8 half years now and you know last year the Rules 9 Committee, not at the behest of anyone on this 10 side of the aisle, but last year the Rules 11 Committee put in this bill -- your Rules 12 Committee; Senator Marino is the chair, I 13 believe -- put in a bill providing for a board 14 to make the investment decisions of the pension 15 fund. 16 What did you provide in your 17 bill? The Comptroller would be on it, three 18 appointees by the Governor, confirmed by the 19 Senate, who represent labor unions and three 20 appointees by the Governor, confirmed by the 21 Senate, who represent management, you know, the 22 counties, state government, the people on the 23 other side of the aisle -- other side of the 3261 1 bargaining relationship. 2 This was your bill last year, 3 your bill, and we know year after year after 4 year virtually every year of Ned Regan's reign 5 there, the Assembly passed a bill saying, Hey, a 6 sole trustee, 52-, $55 billion. 7 Let's have some collective wisdom 8 there, let's give representatives of the workers 9 whose pension money it is, and of the localities 10 and the state government who put the money in 11 there pursuant to negotiating and the pension 12 plans that we enact, let's give them all a say, 13 and then we hear in the last few days that you 14 want to entrust our workers' pensions to the 15 appointees, not by confirmation of the Senate, 16 not officers appointed by the Governor confirmed 17 by the Sen- ate, which gives a certain 18 independence to an officer, but to the 19 designees, the represent- atives of the Speaker, 20 the Majority Leader and the Governor, the three 21 people who balance our budgets every year, the 22 three people who frantically look around for a 23 couple hundred million dollars here and there, 3262 1 the people who sold bridges, highways and 2 prisons to balance the budgets. 3 My colleagues, do you really want 4 to give -- and I don't -- I don't refer to 5 Speaker Weprin or Senator Marino or Governor 6 Cuomo, institutionally. Do you want to give 7 whoever holds those three offices the right to 8 invest $55 billion in our workers' money? 9 They'll invest in prisons. They'll buy highways 10 from the state. They'll buy toll bridges from 11 the state. Ah, what a great investment, a cash 12 cow. Oh, gee, they bought the bridge for 13 several hundred million dollars; the budget is 14 balanced this year. 15 Do you really want to do that? Do 16 you think the people of this state want you to 17 do that? Do you think the workers and pension 18 participants want you to do that? Do you think 19 the unions want you to do it? You think your 20 counties trust you to do that, to give those 21 three officers with their designee, you know, 22 hire and fire him if he doesn't do what you 23 want? Do you really think there's any public 3263 1 support? Do you think there's a economist, a 2 financial manager on Wall Street, is there a 3 sane person in this state who wants to give 4 those three people $55 billion to invest? 5 It's incredible. I can't believe 6 it, and that's not an aspersion on them. They 7 have other responsibilities like balancing the 8 budget. Gee, we're a billion dollars short. 9 Just think how easy those billion and two 10 billion and three billion shortfalls would have 11 been if the people who cut up those budgets had 12 control of $55 billion dollars. 13 What did we do last year? Let's 14 see, we made the Port Authority buy a parking 15 lot from the racing, told them they had to sell 16 it or we'd fire them, and we sold some highways 17 and prisons. You think about that. 18 Senator Daly is worried about 19 whether the prudent investor standards are going 20 to apply to the incoming sole trustee. I ask 21 you, does anyone think the prudent investment 22 standard applies to this Legislature and its 23 leaders when they have to balance the budgets? 3264 1 Or the Governor? 2 Now, I -- by the way, Senator 3 Daly, I sat through those hearings and I heard 4 all the leading candidates say, repeatedly, 5 while they would have certain concerns, McBride 6 principles, South African investment, things 7 that we told the Comptroller he or she has to 8 take a look at, things that this body has told 9 them, they all said when asked questions about 10 social engineering with the pension funds, My 11 first obligation is to get a return, and they 12 said things like when people say, Well, what 13 about environment, they said, Listen, of course, 14 you have to look at that, because is it a 15 prudent investment to invest in a corporation 16 that's out there polluting the environment and 17 potentially liable for billions of dollars in 18 damages? They would look at it from the 19 standpoint is that a good investment? Are you 20 going to get -- is the money safe? Are you going 21 to get a good return on that? Not from the 22 standpoint of we're making a moral judgment and 23 shut them off because they pollute. 3265 1 You have to agree, you want to 2 invest your money in a polluter, go ahead, 3 you're not going to get much of a return down 4 the road. They all adhered, including Mr. 5 McCall, they adhered strictly to that fiduciary 6 responsibility. We're not talking about a 7 social engineer here, and anybody who sees 8 spectres of that with respect to the pension 9 money and, at the same time supports letting the 10 real social engineers, the Governor, the 11 Speaker, the Majority Leader, have control of 12 all this money, isn't thinking too clearly. 13 You know, you can say, Well, the 14 Constitution -- we agree the Constitution says 15 this is the body that does it, but there's no 16 time limit. There's no time limit. Is our 17 standard under our oath of office to uphold the 18 Constitution? 19 I mean that we uphold the 20 Constitution, but only when there's a time 21 limit? You know, we'll do our duty but only when 22 they have a date there. If they don't have a 23 date in the law, we don't have to do our duty. 3266 1 We can slink away from it. We can duck it. We 2 can stall. We can wait months and, you see, 3 you're worried, you know, but this is a bad 4 precedent. 5 What about the precedent? What 6 about the precedent of conceding that in a 7 divided Legislature, one house can refuse to 8 meet until they're good and ready? Isn't the 9 precedent then, Well, what do you want this 10 time? Three, four weeks. 11 Well, isn't that a precedent for 12 three or four months in some future Legislature 13 and isn't that a precedent for waiting a year? 14 Gee, we like the guy who's acting Comptroller 15 better than the guy the other folks might 16 elect. 17 You see, if you're worried about 18 precedent, then the only precedent you have to 19 establish is the Constitution says "shall", the 20 statute says "shall", and that means you shall 21 do it with some degree of immediacy and somebody 22 -- look, if the date was real inconvenient and 23 the Speaker or the Lt. Governor invited the 3267 1 Legislature to join, you wouldn't get a quorum. 2 If it was such a bad day, you worried about it 3 falling on a midnight, Saturday night, don't 4 worry about it, lot of people won't show up. 5 They won't have a meeting, but the Constitution 6 has to mean something, and it has to mean it 7 with some reasonable degree of immediacy. 8 You know, if it's O.K. to let the 9 office be vacant for a few weeks or months 10 whatever, then why did the people who wrote the 11 Constitution use that language, "shall appoint" 12 a comptroller? Why does the statute say that? 13 What you would urge would frustrate the very 14 purpose of the stat... of the Constitution. 15 Its very purpose is not to let 16 the vacancy go to the end of the term, not to 17 let somebody else automatically succeed to the 18 office. These things are done elsewhere in law 19 and, if the -- if the framers of the 20 Constitution and the people who enacted it - 21 the people enacted this Constitution, the voters 22 -- if they had meant to let it drift, then they 23 wouldn't have said what they said. They had to 3268 1 mean something when they said it, and we have an 2 obligation to do our best and not to let things 3 go. 4 Well, that's not very courteous 5 to this house or that's not very nice to me or 6 it's embarrassing to me, stand in the way of 7 your constitutional duties. The Majority of 8 this house has a right, if they feel they 9 haven't been adequately consulted to say, We're 10 insulted, we don't like this, you'll hear about 11 more of this later. But I don't think you have 12 a right to say, Aha! We weren't treated 13 properly. We weren't accorded the respect we're 14 entitled to, so, therefore, we don't have to do 15 our constitutional duty until somebody pays 16 proper respects to us. I don't think that's 17 right, my colleagues. 18 I understand, so you feel 19 insulted. So you're insulted. You know, I get 20 insulted as a member of the Minority, 21 institutionally insulted, constantly in this 22 place for years. I don't take the attitude, 23 well, they're insulting me so I don't have to 3269 1 show up at session and I don't have to vote on 2 things because they're insulting me and I'm not 3 going. 4 You know, you can't -- the remedy 5 for what you perceive to be the insult to you 6 that you would impose is far extreme and I don't 7 think it's permissible. We all have a duty to 8 follow the Constitution, and I think that to say 9 in the face of the Constitution which lets the 10 Lt. Governor preside, that he's strictly a 11 member of the executive, he's a hybrid. That 12 office is a hybrid and it was written that way 13 in the Constitution and that had to mean 14 something and, as I say, we come here every two 15 years, and he's the only person standing up 16 there with any authority to pound the gavel on 17 that day. 18 So I would urge all of you, I 19 think -- I think you make a terrible mistake in 20 the Majority here if you say, Well, we're not 21 going to agree this time. We're mad, so we 22 won't go to the meeting. I don't think the 23 public will accept that. I don't think the 3270 1 public that adopted and supports this 2 Constitution will view that as a legitimate 3 response to whatever you perceive to be the 4 insult to -- to the Majority in this house in 5 not being consulted one way or the other. 6 So I would urge all of you, it's 7 getting late. I have to get up in time to be at 8 the meeting at 10:30 in the morning, and I would 9 urge all of you to be there and help us adopt 10 the rules, help us elect a Comptroller. Help us 11 fulfill the collective responsibility of the 12 Legislature under the Constitution and laws to 13 make this appointment. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Padavan, why do you rise? 17 Senator Daly, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR DALY: I would ask 19 Senator Connor to yield to one question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Connor, do you yield? He does, Senator Daly. 22 SENATOR DALY: Just one 23 question. Going back to your original comments 3271 1 on the powers of the Lt. Governor, Mr. 2 President, will the Senator tell me if the -- in 3 this chamber at that time, and the Lt. Governor 4 is calling to order the first time has the right 5 or the power, not the right, the power to pass 6 one bill or make one appointment outside this 7 house? 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Senator, I don't 9 understand your question, frankly. 10 SENATOR DALY: Maybe he doesn't 11 want to answer it. May I repeat the question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Continue 13 to yield. 14 SENATOR DALY: Senator was 15 talking about the power of the Lt. Governor. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Connor. 18 SENATOR DALY: I'm asking him one 19 question. On reconvening on the first day, the 20 Lt. Governor is up there and before we select 21 our Majority Leader, can this house pass one 22 bill or make one appointment? 23 SENATOR CONNOR: No, but it can 3272 1 convene when the Lt. Governor pounds the gavel. 2 The Lt. Governor has the power to preside and he 3 has a casting vote which I've researched back to 4 the 1890s; it was a fashionable term which 5 political scientists used when they wrote the 6 Meiji constitution in Japan in 1890, and 7 modernized it, they used the identical language 8 for the president. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Padavan. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Padavan, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm now 15 requesting that the two-hour limit be imposed 16 and that the debate be terminated. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Padavan has made a motion to limit debate. The 19 motion is non-debatable, non-amendable. So the 20 Secretary will call the roll on the motion to 21 curtail debate. Call the question on the 22 resolution. Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the 3273 1 roll. ). 2 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Party vote 3 in the negative. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 5 the affirmative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 7 question of limiting debate, party vote in the 8 negative. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35, nays 25, 10 party vote. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 debate is ended. 13 On the resolution. All those in 14 favor signify by saying aye. 15 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Halperin, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR HALPERIN: Explain my 20 vote. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Halperin to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR HALPERIN: Thank you, Mr. 3274 1 President. 2 I had intended to speak although 3 not very much longer than I would in explaining 4 my vote, but I somehow felt that Senator 5 Leichter's, by passing his opportunity to speak, 6 left a tremendous void, and I'm not quite used 7 to it. 8 I was very interested in the 9 colloquy initiated by Senator Velella with 10 Senator Galiber, and I would, without coming to 11 a conclusion about what might have happened, I 12 think the argument that I heard Senator Velella 13 making was we would have tried to have subverted 14 this process no matter who your candidate was. 15 Well, that, to me, was the 16 message that I heard, and I tend to believe it 17 although I certainly agree with Senators 18 Galiber, Waldon and certain others who tried to 19 make it clear that a very bad message is being 20 sent out that will be interpreted in a certain 21 way. 22 But that, the point is that I 23 believe that from the beginning there was never 3275 1 an intent to permit this process to go forward 2 in the way envisioned by the Constitution and by 3 the people of this state, that there was an 4 attitude that, if we can't have our way and if 5 we can't get something out of this process, 6 we're just going to try to do anything we can to 7 upset it, and there's a doctrine in the law of 8 equity that, when you enter into a court you 9 must enter into it with clean hands. I don't 10 believe you've done this. 11 You knew two months ago or so 12 that the Comptroller was going to resign. From 13 that point on, you did nothing to move the 14 process along that could smoothly and properly 15 and lawfully bring the new Comptroller into 16 position, and that has been your strategy 17 throughout. 18 I sat through every minute of 19 every hearing of the Comptroller candidates. We 20 had an open process, a good process. You could 21 have participated and you chose not to and now 22 you're coming in here trying to raise spurious 23 legal arguments which I simply cannot agree with 3276 1 and I would just point out that the language 2 which appears in your very own resolution taken 3 from Section 41 of the Public Officers Law 4 speaks in terms -- and this has been said before 5 -- of a joint ballot. The reference to the 6 houses does not mean, in my interpretation of 7 this, that each house has to act with the 8 integrity of each house, but simply should be 9 interpreted to mean that the members of the 10 house shall -- of each house shall, by joint 11 ballot, vote and if a sufficient number of 12 members show up tomorrow morning at 10:30 and 13 take a vote, then we will duly appoint a new 14 Comptroller, a historical action which I 15 personally will be proud to participate in. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Nolan to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR NOLAN: Mr. President, I 19 find that really this whole -- this resolution 20 that was presented and we're acting upon tonight 21 is absolutely on the face of it absurd. 22 Mr. President, could we have some 23 order in the house, please. 3277 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Nolan raises a good point. May we have order in 3 the house, please. 4 SENATOR NOLAN: It's patently, on 5 the face of the resolution, illegal. It's - 6 it's wrong. The courts are going to quickly 7 deal with this. Presumably you are going to go 8 to court and you're going to lose. Very simple, 9 you're going to lose. You don't have a prayer 10 of winning. 11 But what happens if you did win? 12 What happens if, by some quirk, that you were 13 successful? The best you'd accomplish is delay 14 this happening that's going to happen tomorrow 15 for a month or two. That's the best thing that 16 you could hope for. And what are you proving by 17 that? 18 We've nominated, through a very 19 difficult process which you decided not to 20 participate in, one of the most highly qualified 21 people in the state of New York to be 22 Comptroller. 23 Senator Galiber touched on some 3278 1 of the qualifications of our former colleague, 2 Senator McCall, a true Horatio Alger story that 3 a lot of you in this chamber know Carl. Grew up 4 in poverty in the Roxbury section of Boston, 5 went to Dartmouth College on a scholarship, 6 graduated from Dartmouth, graduated from 7 divinity school as a Master's and Doctor of 8 Divinity. 9 High school teacher, a minister, 10 headed up the poverty program, anti-poverty 11 program in Brooklyn under your mayor at that 12 time, John Lindsay. One of the founders of 13 Inner City Broadcasting Corporation, today the 14 single largest minority-owned communications 15 business in the United States. Very successful 16 business person. Elected to the Senate from 17 Harlem in 1974; one of the four top people in 18 the United Nations when he served as a Deputy 19 Ambassador to the United Nations under former 20 President Carter. A Commissioner of Human 21 Rights for the state of New York, executive 22 director of Channel 13 public interest tele 23 vision station, the largest public interest 3279 1 television station in the United States. For 2 the last eight years a senior vice-president at 3 Citicorp, the largest banking institution in the 4 United States. At one time ran for two and a 5 half years, their Queens retail banking 6 division, the largest single retail banking 7 division in the Citibank retail structure, and 8 the last two years not only has served Citibank 9 on a daily basis but also as an additional task 10 having taken on the job as president of the 11 board of education of the city of New York, the 12 largest public education system in the United 13 States. 14 And you all, for political 15 reasons, are going to try and, at the best, hold 16 this man off from becoming Comptroller for a 17 month or two? The best you could accomplish. 18 For what reason? For what reason? Because you 19 are now in the minority for one of the few times 20 in the 19 years that I've been in the Senate. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 22 if you will excuse me, there is a rule that you 23 are on the very, very close fringe of breaking. 3280 1 That is a rule requires a Senator to cast his 2 vote, explain his vote within two minutes. Now, 3 you have now extended yourself to about three 4 and a half. I would remind you of that rule and 5 ask that you show the house the courtesy of 6 complying with that rule and cast your vote. 7 SENATOR NOLAN: All right. Just 8 like one final sentence and to urge my 9 colleagues to please have a change of heart and 10 to participate in the joint session tomorrow and 11 elect Carl McCall as the state Comptroller. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 13 you, Senator Nolan. 14 Senator Smith to explain her 15 vote. 16 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 Some five years ago I came to 19 this body, and I was extremely proud to be able 20 to sit with people whom I felt were fair and 21 compassionate. Tonight I'm embarrassed and I'm 22 ashamed to even think that some of you would 23 contemplate bringing forth this resolution 3281 1 because you anticipated that our nominee would 2 either be a female or an African-American. And 3 God forbid had the third place person who 4 happened to have been born in Puerto Rico was 5 our nominee. 6 I'm saddened that you would hope 7 to dilute the powers of an office based on 8 someone's sex or race or where they were born. 9 I'm really ashamed to think that any one of you 10 that I've oftentimes called my friends could 11 consider aborting a process that clearly gives 12 us the opportunity to be the shining star of all 13 the states in this United States of America. 14 And I choose to answer a question 15 that Senator Velella asked Senator Galiber: Had 16 it been Joey Lentol, I would have fought just as 17 hard for him if he had been challenged because 18 of his being Italian just as I have stood for 19 those Italians in CUNY. I abhor discrimination 20 no matter whom it's against, and I ask my 21 colleagues that I'd often called my friends to 22 please reconsider tonight what you did because 23 it will impact on the entire state of New York. 3282 1 Therefore, Mr. President, I 2 clearly vote in the negative on this 3 resolution. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Nozzolio to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 What's happened in this process 9 that is so heralded tonight is that, during this 10 process those participants have rejected cam 11 paign contribution and disclosure requirements. 12 They herald campaign election reform but when 13 it's time to establish real reform, that's 14 rejected. 15 This house debated at length and 16 many members on the other side of the aisle 17 rejected a referendum to get a sense of the 18 feelings of the citizens of this state, whether 19 they'd have an unelected Comptroller serve 20 virtually half a term. We wanted to see what 21 the people believed should be the next 22 Comptroller, who the people believed the next 23 Comptroller should be, and although passed in 3283 1 this house it was rejected by a joint session. 2 May I continue, Mr. Speaker - 3 Mr. President? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Certainly. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: But let's tell 7 it like it is: From the very onset of Comptrol 8 ler Regan's resignation, you have been part and 9 parcel of -- those who are rejecting this 10 resolution tonight have been part and parcel of 11 the Governor's attempt to dominate the process. 12 The final selection apparently is 13 the Governor's first choice. Only a few days 14 after the vacancy was established, the Governor 15 said who his first choice was and surprise, 16 surprise, even after this lengthy process, who 17 is the Speaker's choice? It's the same 18 individual who the Governor said from day one 19 was his choice. 20 How many mirrors and smoke can 21 you use to justify a process that's not 22 justifiable? You had the opportunity to be part 23 of a process, to be independent and you did not 3284 1 take that opportunity. You rolled over at the 2 first chance you had. You got rolled. The 3 Assembly rolled this house in its attempt and 4 you let them, you let them do that, and that's 5 why I believe this resolution is absolutely 6 essential and that's why I applaud it being 7 before this house, and I support it wholeheart 8 edly. 9 I vote aye. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 DeFrancisco to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This is a 13 sad, sad day in this house because what we're 14 doing here is trying to pave the way for an 15 illegal meeting which would appoint a man as 16 Comptroller. 17 Now, I know most of you 18 individually now, and I know in your hearts of 19 heart you don't mean to be sexist by this vote 20 in not selecting a woman candidate because I 21 know individually you would never do that and 22 choose a man over a woman because you're not 23 sexist. I know you're not, because I know every 3285 1 one of you individually. 2 But we have an opportunity here, 3 the majority population in this state to be 4 represented in one of the highest positions as 5 the state Comptroller, and that person could be 6 a female. We're sending a terrible message to 7 the community out there. I know we all 8 understand it. We understand it, but I fear 9 they out there, they're not going to understand 10 it. 11 This person who you could have 12 chosen was a president of the biggest city 13 council in the whole United States except for 14 L.A. She works as an investment broker now or 15 in an investment brokerage house. She's a 16 former Senator of this body, when it was a home, 17 when this house was a home, so because of that 18 and because it's an illegal meeting, I have to 19 rise and vote yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 21 any other Senator who wishes to explain his or 22 her vote prior to Senator Marino? 23 Senator Waldon. 3286 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 2 much, Mr. President. I'll be very brief. 3 At least two points I want to 4 make. One, we are doing the will of the people 5 because we are here by virtue of the voting 6 which makes us a representative body. So 7 whatever we do regarding the Comptroller's 8 designation is the will of the people and to 9 characterize the action of tomorrow morning, 10 which will certainly happen otherwise, is in 11 disrespect of the votes which brought us here. 12 Lastly, you spoke of your 13 frustration, your frustration in this one time 14 since I've been here both in the Assembly and in 15 the Senate, of not being in absolute control of 16 your destiny. But think of the frustration that 17 what you're doing this evening will mean to 18 millions of African and Caribbean-Americans and 19 Latino Americans in this state. 20 No matter how you cut it, what 21 you're saying is that you're less and what 22 you're saying is, even if you have a record, as 23 does Carl McCall, you don't qualify. You're not 3287 1 equal to. You're not saying it in words and 2 substance, but you're saying it more importantly 3 by your actions and that's unfortunate. That's 4 very unfortunate, because there are people who 5 go to work every day believing that, if they put 6 their children through school, if they lead the 7 good life, if they work hard, anything is 8 possible and yet it is not so, because you 9 frustrate one of the best that we have to offer 10 and in turn frustrate all people of color in 11 this state. 12 Please be mindful of that, and I 13 encourage you to do as this African-American is 14 going to do and vote in the negative on this 15 resolution. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Ohrenstein to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Mr. 19 President, to explain my vote briefly. 20 Unfortunately, having listened to 21 all of this, I have to conclude one thing and I 22 say this with respect to my friend, Ralph 23 Marino, and the Majority Leader of this house, 3288 1 and I think several of my colleagues have 2 pointed this out. 3 You guys have gotten into a very 4 bad habit, and that's because of the way this 5 place is run, not just the Senate, the Assembly 6 as well to a certain degree, and I've criticized 7 this on many occasions but nothing in this place 8 happens without being leveraged onto something 9 else. The hostaging that takes place here, 10 whether it's on the budget or on legislation is 11 right; that's how we operate. Everything else 12 is hinged on everything else. That's the habit 13 we're into. 14 I think it's a bad way to go. 15 I've said it before. It isn't just your fault, 16 it's the way the structure works in this 17 Legislature, and that's another issue for 18 another day. 19 But what you are doing is so 20 apparent and so patent, you can't come to -- you 21 can not bring yourselves to agree to come to a 22 meeting which you know will take place and, as 23 Senator Nolan indicated, will take place 3289 1 eventually, whether it's today, next week, or 2 three months. You can't bring yourself to go to 3 a meeting without trying to exact a price, and 4 that's what you tried to do here. 5 You tried to squeeze out some 6 bills or at least to make believe you're trying 7 to squeeze out some bills and to put the 8 Democrats in a position where they're against 9 these high principles that you're espousing 10 because they won't pass a bill today or tomorrow 11 because it may take a little time to put these 12 two very important measures that you have 13 selected as being hostage on the question of a 14 concurrent resolution. 15 That's what you're doing and I 16 think you ought to stop. This is a sui generis 17 process that happens once in a while under 18 unique historic circumstances. You know the law 19 requires that there be a joint meeting. How 20 it's called we can argue 'til we're blue in the 21 face and only some court eventually is going to 22 decide who's right or who's wrong. But the 23 color of right exists under the Constitution and 3290 1 under the law. And so I think you make just a 2 bad mistake in trying to leverage something onto 3 this concurrent resolution which you believe is 4 the only way you can call this meeting when it 5 is clear there are several other ways that are 6 perfectly legal and perfectly callable. 7 So I would just wish you would 8 think for a moment and stop it. Let's meet 9 tomorrow, do this in a decent way. Let's not 10 ring up the consequences, Senator Marino, that 11 you suggested in your own press release that 12 show the credit of the state and other things 13 are going to be impaired. 14 If that happens, the blame isn't 15 going to fall on the Democrats. The blame is 16 going to fall on all of us. The blame is going 17 to fall on the way we run the state collective 18 ly. Nobody gains by this. I don't think -- I 19 think your strategy was ill conceived. It was 20 thoughtless. We have time to withdraw from this 21 kind of silly argumentative way in which we come 22 to the conclusions, and let's finish up 23 tomorrow, let's bring this to a conclusion. 3291 1 Let's elect this very decent and highly 2 qualified individual that the Democrats - 3 individual the Democrats have elected to be 4 Comptroller and let's be done with it, and let's 5 go on with the rest of the session. 6 I ask that this resolution be 7 defeated. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Marino to conclude explanation of votes. 10 SENATOR MARINO: To be very 11 brief, Mr. President. 12 I'm sorry that we're here at this 13 hour, this late hour, because it's all 14 unnecessary. All of this could have been 15 avoided very simply by the leaders of the 16 Democrat Party showing respect, Senator 17 Dollinger. You talked about respect. I think 18 if they had shown some respect for this house 19 and this institution, this could have all been 20 avoided. But to have the Speaker tell me on 21 Monday what hour and what day we're going to 22 meet, without suggesting that I had any input in 23 the process, in fact clearly suggested that I 3292 1 had no input in the process, is a lack of 2 respect for this house. 3 For him to suggest that he's 4 going to, or you collectively are going to sum 5 up the rules of this procedure and as late as 6 this afternoon dictate what those rules would be 7 without any input on the part of this house, 8 Senator, shows a lack of respect for this 9 house. 10 I would expect more from the 11 leadership of the Democrat Party than this type 12 of posturing. I don't believe we should reward 13 arrogance, and that's what you're suggesting. 14 It's a clearly arrogant posture to tell me or 15 this house that we must arrive at 10:30 16 tomorrow. I had nothing to say about it. It 17 can't be next Monday. It must be tomorrow at 18 10:30 and, you know, if you just waited until 19 Monday, this would all go away. 20 No. Arrogantly you're going to 21 tell us that it must be at 10:30 tomorrow and 22 the Lt. Governor is going to dictate that, the 23 time and place where we're going to meet in 3293 1 contravention of every rule of this house. He's 2 done it before; he's tried to establish this 3 precedent before, illegally in my opinion, and 4 improperly. He's now trying to do it again in 5 concert with the other house, and I'm not going 6 to let it happen, because I respect the 7 integrity of this house and everybody in it. I 8 show respect. I would never do that to the 9 Speaker, to the Lt. Governor or any other person 10 elected in this state. 11 That's what this is all about. 12 It's not about Carl McCall, who everybody loves 13 as an individual. Not about him. It's about 14 the process; that's what this is all about. 15 It's about arrogance. It's about dictator 16 ship. We resent it. It's illegal; it's wrong. 17 For that reason, I vote for this 18 resolution and I'll ask for a slow roll call. 19 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Party vote 20 in the negative. 21 SENATOR MARINO: Slow roll call. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 question is on the resolution. The question is 3294 1 on the resolution. I see five Senators standing 2 at the request of Senator Marino. A slow roll 3 call is being called. The clerk will commence 4 with the calling of the roll slowly. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 6 excused. 7 Senator Bruno. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 12 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 14 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 DeFrancisco. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, for the 21 second time. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 23 (There was no response.) 3295 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Gonzalez. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Goodman. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Halperin. 13 SENATOR HALPERIN: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Hoffmann. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 3296 1 SENATOR JONES: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 5 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, I 6 rise to explain my vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Lack to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR LACK: I vote in the 10 affirmative, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Lack in the affirmative. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Nay. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 21 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 3297 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 6 SENATOR MARINO: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Markowitz. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Masiello. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Mega. 13 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 Senator Montgomery. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 Senator Nolan. 19 SENATOR NOLAN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Nozzolio. 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3298 1 Ohrenstein. 2 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 11 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Paterson. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Santiago. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Sears. 23 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 3299 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer. 4 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 8 SENATOR SMITH: No, and nay. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Spano. 12 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Stachowski. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stafford. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Stavisky. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 23 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye. 3300 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 2 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 8 SENATOR WALDON: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 10 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 12 will call the absentees. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 14 (There was no response). 15 Senator Gonzalez. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Goodman. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Markowitz. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Masiello. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Mendez. 3301 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Montgomery. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Paterson. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Santiago. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Solomon. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Stavisky. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 13 the results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 15 15. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 resolution is adopted. 18 Senator Marino. 19 SENATOR MARINO: Mr. President, 20 Senator Volker has an announcement. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 22 know it's late, but I'd just like to remind 23 everybody that tomorrow at 8:00 o'clock at St. 3302 1 Mary's Church is the ecumenical memorial service 2 for deceased legislators. I'm going to -- I'm 3 going to be there at 8:00 o'clock, and I hope 4 that as many members as is possible will be 5 there and, of course, there will be the 6 traditional breakfast afterwards. This year it 7 will be at the Sign of the Tree since, for 8 various reasons, we were not able to get the 9 Green Room. So we'd appreciate anyone who can 10 be there. This ecumenical service will, thanks 11 to Senator Nolan, will have a rabbi, a 12 Protestant minister and a Catholic priest and 13 we'd like to have as many of our members there 14 as possible. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marino. 18 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, you 19 want to -- any Senator wish to speak? 20 (There was no response.) 21 There being no further business, 22 I move we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:30. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3303 1 stands adjourned until Wednesday, May 5th, at 2 11:30 a.m. 3 (Whereupon, at 12:29 a.m., May 5, 4 1993, the Senate adjourned.) 5 6 7 8 9