Tuesday, May 11, 1993

3443 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 11, 1993 11 3:40 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 ST. GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 3444 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senate will 3 please come to order. The Senators will please 4 find their places. 5 I'd like to ask everyone present 6 to rise and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with 7 me. 8 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in 9 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 10 Please be seated. 11 In the absence of clergy, may we 12 now bow our heads in a moment of silence. 13 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 14 silence. ) 15 Secretary will read the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, May 10. The Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. Senator Farley in the chair upon 19 designation of the Temporary President. The 20 Journal of Friday, May 7, was read and 21 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no 23 objection the Journal stands approved as read. 3445 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 The secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 7 from the Committee on Finance reports the 8 following nomination: 9 Commissioner of Transportation, 10 John C. Egan of Slingerlands. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Levy. 12 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 13 It's a genuine honor and privilege to have the 14 opportunity to rise to move the confirmation of 15 the nomination of John Egan to be Commissioner 16 of Transportation for New York State. 17 I have known John for almost 25 18 years. I first met him when he served as a 19 principal executive with OGS, and I worked with 20 him when he was the chief executive and 21 commissioner of the Office of General Services. 22 John Egan has a long and a 23 distinguished and a successful career in 3446 1 government. He is dedicated; he is hard 2 working; and history shows and tells us that 3 when John Egan heads an agency it runs like a 4 smooth, almost noiseless engine. And given the 5 more than $20 billion-plus transportation 6 financing package that we have just put in place 7 and its cornerstone piece -- its cornerstone 8 jewel, a $9 billion-plus historic state highway 9 and bridge program for construction and for 10 rehabilitation, we need that touch. 11 I think it's fair to say, Mr. 12 President, that New York State is at a critical 13 juncture. We need a smooth and an experienced 14 hand to administer this $9 billion plan, 15 quickly, efficiently and on time, especially on 16 time to create jobs, promise jobs and promise 17 progress. 18 John Egan is a problem solver, a 19 consensus builder. His hallmark and tradition 20 has been success, achievements and 21 accomplishments, and I know that he is going to 22 be a successful Commissioner of Transportation. 23 I congratulate John on his 3447 1 appointment. I look forward to working with him 2 as all of us do. I commend the Governor on this 3 outstanding appointment, and it's an honor and 4 privilege, Mr. President, to move the 5 confirmation of the nomination of John Egan to 6 be Commissioner of Transportation. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stafford. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 9 President. After that very fine delivery from 10 Senator Levy, anything that I could say would 11 add very, very little. I certainly second 12 everything he has said. 13 I would point out this is the 14 third time the Commissioner has been here being 15 confirmed. He was appointed by Governor Carey 16 to be the OGS Commissioner and then appointed by 17 Governor Cuomo to be OGS Commissioner, and now 18 here with the Department of Transportation 19 Commissioner. 20 Now, I knew that before his 21 career was over, he'd be in transportation 22 because he had the best homemade soap box derby 23 in Dannemora. We lived on a hill and, by the 3448 1 way, we lived next door to each other. His 2 radiator was a 25-gallon pail. He had the 3 wheels on it and the seat. And, of course, up 4 in that area of the state, we're always on the 5 cutting edge of development, and this was one of 6 the first soap box derbies that was ever built. 7 In later years, I guess people went -- they had 8 the national championships. 9 I remember also, as far as 10 transportation was concerned, when he went in 11 the Army he had a red Jeep, and he left that for 12 his brother and I, and we thought it was quite 13 -- we thought we knew everything except we 14 didn't have licenses to drive, so he knew that 15 we probably wouldn't be driving it. 16 I would point out also he's been 17 a volunteer as far as fire fighting is 18 concerned. He's been quite a -- a real 19 dedicated volunteer fireman. When he was in 20 high school, the Dannemora School, we were on 21 the ground level. Whenever the fire siren would 22 ring, he would jump out the window and go to the 23 fire. That had to be stopped, though, because 3449 1 the fire siren was ringing too often. Some of 2 his friends were making it possible for him to 3 get out. 4 I assure you that all of us who 5 have known Jack Egan -- I have known him for 6 over 50 years -- realize the dedication that he 7 has to his work, and I can point out also 8 something that's very interesting. I think it 9 showed that he was going to succeed. He was 10 very involved with on-the-job training before it 11 was popular. He was working in stationary 12 engineer work. And about three houses down, we 13 had an engineer who taught all of us a great 14 deal. But Sam, as we knew him in Dannemora, and 15 all of his colleagues would work with Chief Ruiz 16 and, as I say, today, this is something that's 17 more formal, but he was the type that was 18 involved with education before it was mandatory 19 or, as I say, popular. 20 Everyone here today is going to 21 say, again, how committed he is, how concerned 22 he is. He is always available, always has a 23 sense of humor. And when he says no to you, you 3450 1 think he said yes. Then by the time you get 2 home, you realize it was no, but he broke it to 3 you easily. 4 And on a serious note, Mr. 5 President, in this day and age when we seem to 6 be criticizing everybody -- I know legislators 7 aren't immune, either, but criticizing people 8 who work in government, John Egan, again, 9 exemplifies and is an example of our system, our 10 system supporting and making it work, making 11 everyone available. 12 As I've said a number of times, 13 we often say, "What can I do?" He went right up 14 through the ranks, I might add, from grade 1 to 15 the top in two departments. So, as I say, it 16 shows in his examples that we do have 17 opportunities. He has taken advantage of them. 18 And, again, he is a real example of the system 19 working. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mega. 23 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. I 3451 1 want to second everything that has been said and 2 said so well about John Egan. He is a problem 3 solver, as was indicated. He is dedicated to 4 getting things done and representing that 5 portion of government that he is assigned to at 6 a particular time. I've always found him 7 responsive when I've had a problem, and I'm sure 8 that he's been that way with anyone else who's 9 had a problem where he's had jurisdiction. 10 So, John, I rise to wish you well 11 and compliment you on being appointed to this 12 very important job, and I perceive you as being 13 the right man at the right place at the right 14 time for the kind of things that have to be done 15 in that area. 16 So congratulations and good luck. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. I rise to second the nomination of 20 John Egan. 21 I don't think anybody in my 22 tenure in the Legislature has served this state 23 any better than John Egan. His reputation as an 3452 1 administrator is unparalleled, and I'd like to 2 compliment the Governor for this choice in one 3 of the most difficult and challenging 4 departments or agencies that this state has. 5 And believe it or not, we are fortunate and 6 blessed to have somebody who is willing to 7 assume that responsibility. He has served us so 8 well in this state. 9 And, John, I wish you the best 10 and I look forward to working with you, and I 11 think that everybody in this house is excited 12 and thrilled about this appointment. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 14 Stachowski. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I also rise, 16 Mr. President, to second the nomination of John 17 Egan. John has been a success wherever he's 18 been. It's been a pleasure to work with him. 19 I'm sure that not only are we looking forward, 20 but John is looking forward now to building 21 things instead of prisons. He'll be building 22 roads and bridges, and he's going to enjoy that 23 immensely. It's much more enjoyable than 3453 1 building prisons with the Dormitory Authority. 2 But I think that the fact is that 3 John has always been a great manager. I think 4 no place more can we use a good manager at a 5 time like this than in DOT. It will be a 6 pleasure to have someone there that responds to 7 your inquiries at a rapid manner. Whether it's 8 yes or whether it's no, at least you get an 9 answer, and I'm looking forward to having the 10 opportunity to work with John as we turn to some 11 of the less than satisfactory infrastructure in 12 New York and some of the roads that are planned 13 that aren't there yet in reality and make New 14 York State a better place to live and work. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 16 Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 18 President. My colleagues. I would be an 19 ingrate if I didn't get up and voice my pleasure 20 at seeing John Egan appointed and confirmed for 21 the important position of Commissioner of the 22 Department of Transportation, because John Egan 23 has always been so responsive when I have called 3454 1 on him. 2 You know, when we have these 3 confirmations of commissioners, we sometimes get 4 carried away and there is little hyperbole and 5 maybe some exaggeration. You can not exaggerate 6 the service that John Egan has done for the 7 people of the state of New York. He has just 8 been superb. 9 And I'm so glad my good friend 10 Senator Stafford made a point. It's an 11 important point that John Egan worked his way up 12 through the civil service of this state because 13 it shows the dedicated, competent people that we 14 have. And as Senator Stafford also rightfully 15 pointed out, at the time when there is so much 16 criticism of government and people in 17 government, let us think of John Egan and there 18 are other John Egans in our civil service who 19 work so hard with such dedication and are paid 20 so much less than somebody with John Egan's 21 caliber and competence could get in the private 22 sector, but he has made his life serving the 23 public. 3455 1 As we all know, we have heads of 2 agencies that say they are not going to do 3 anything and they don't do anything. Then we 4 have heads of agencies who promise and don't do 5 anything. And then we have John Egan who 6 promises and who always delivers. 7 I'm happy to second his 8 nomination. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. It's interesting to see the wide 12 range of comments that are coming out of the 13 membership. It just covers the whole spectrum. 14 And the point you made, Senator Leichter, about 15 originating and developing these fine talents in 16 the service of the public -- civil service. 17 They have been so much maligned and abused; and 18 yet, here we have an outstanding example of 19 service that draws its strength from experience 20 with people. 21 And who else but an enlightened, 22 ennobled public servant will represent that 23 point of view, the public need and the public 3456 1 welfare? I don't care how you dress an up and 2 how much you adorn other qualities and 3 professions, but there is always a narrower 4 interest involved. But John Egan -- and I have 5 known him maybe between 30 and 40 years -- he 6 has exemplified this quality, and he has stepped 7 into a number of thorny situations where people 8 advance their point of view and he is available 9 and they have access to him, but it's always an 10 access and an availability that provokes 11 respect. 12 So if they respect a person, 13 sometimes a decision has to be not to your 14 liking but you respect the process by which he 15 made his judgment, and he is capable of making 16 the tough judgments, and he is capable of doing 17 it in a variety of circumstances, the fact that 18 he is stepping into very, very important shoes. 19 As Senator Levy has pointed out, 20 this is of vital importance to the people of 21 this state, and it's very easy to get into 22 considerations of conflict. But when we know 23 that the person is honest, that he has the total 3457 1 good of the people of this state and the welfare 2 of this state, it is certainly -- to those of us 3 who are here in the business of addressing those 4 needs, it gives us added confidence and 5 satisfaction to know that in the discharge of 6 these delicate responsibilities John Egan will 7 be there at the helm making the tough decisions, 8 the right decisions and, in any event, those 9 decisions that spring from his own logic and the 10 wide disciplines that he has served and his 11 honest and conscientious judgment. 12 So I wish you well, John, and I 13 know that -- I don't know you as long as -- he 14 called you Jack. I know you as John. But, in 15 any event, under either guise, you certainly 16 have our affection and respect and certainly our 17 support in the endeavors which you are 18 undertaking. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 20 Masiello. 21 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. I, too, would like to second the 23 nomination of John Egan. 3458 1 John, obviously, without being 2 redundant, I just want to say that I 3 congratulate you. I'm looking forward to 4 working with you. You have been a terrific 5 public servant to not only this Legislature but 6 the people of the state of New York. 7 You are always there willing and 8 able to try to solve problems. You are 9 accessible. You're professional. You like to 10 work with people and it shows. It shows in your 11 personality, and it shows in the results that 12 you accomplish. 13 And I want to thank you for 14 everything you've done for the people in Buffalo 15 and Western New York, and I look forward to 16 working with you in your new capacity to be an 17 excellent public servant for them and for the 18 entire state of New York. 19 And with that, I want to thank 20 you for everything you have done and 21 congratulate you and look forward to working 22 with you for a better New York State. 23 Thank you. 3459 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nolan. 2 SENATOR NOLAN: Mr. President. 3 John, I don't know I've been in -- this is my 4 tenth term in the Senate, and it seems every 5 time I turn around that one governor or another 6 is calling upon you to perform some Herculean, 7 outstanding task. When there is a problem some 8 place, whether it was Governor Carey or whether 9 it's Governor Cuomo, calls on John Egan to solve 10 the problem. No matter what agency it is, John 11 can be depended upon to make sure that he makes 12 the chief executive look good at whatever task 13 he is performing. 14 John, of course, is obviously a 15 resident of my district. More importantly, he 16 is my friend, and that to go through a litany of 17 things that John Egan has done for the people of 18 this state has already been said. John started 19 at the lowest level. As other people have 20 pointed out, he has gone on to great heights. 21 And all I can say, John, is thank 22 you on behalf of the people in my district in 23 Albany County and on behalf of the people of 3460 1 this great state for all of the great things 2 that you have done, for all of the dedicated 3 public service that you have given, and we'll 4 certainly look forward to working with you over 5 the next several years in your new position. 6 So, John, again, welcome to the 7 Senate and keep up the good work. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. Every now and then in government 11 some very good things happen, and it's the sense 12 of this body that if we were to take a vote now, 13 for the first time in a long while, John, we 14 would be unanimous in your confirmation. That's 15 rare in this body. 16 I have been privileged to know 17 John Egan for so many, many good years, and 18 those have been good years. John, all the good 19 things that have been said about you, I can 20 simply say amen and sit down, because all of 21 them are true. 22 But from a personal standpoint, I 23 know you have always been available. You have 3461 1 been a people person. You have been concerned 2 with people throughout the state of New York. 3 It was not just a geographical matter with you, 4 upstate and downstate, but the same engineers 5 that you have given to us in government that 6 have kept you moving in government for so very 7 long has been one of your real assets. 8 I personally want to thank you 9 that when I came here some 20 years ago 10 concerned about persons who heretofore had been 11 left out of the process that you were one with 12 your commitment to sit down and work out certain 13 matters to see to it that everyone had an equal 14 opportunity. And I want to personally thank you 15 for that. 16 As you go into DOT with a 17 reputation of excellence and commitment and 18 industry, I say merely that DOT has not been 19 doing what in my judgment they should be doing. 20 There are some of us who have suggested that the 21 middle management people, whether it be DOT or 22 some place else, are the ones who are calling 23 the shots, those who outlive commissioners and 3462 1 outlive administrations, but your history in 2 government and your ability to have a hands-on 3 effect on what you have been part of, whether 4 it's OGS or whether it was with the Dormitory 5 Authority, no middlemen, no middlepersons are 6 going to be able to dictate to you a policy as 7 it has happened in the past. An answer will 8 come from you. And as Senator Stafford said, 9 it's always not yes or the one we want to hear, 10 but you have such a pleasant smile when you tell 11 someone that it can't happen. 12 So I welcome you to the next step 13 in government, and I'm glad that you are going 14 through the same process as another good friend 15 -- and I call you "good friend," who have work 16 ed yourself up through the system. "Work hard, 17 make a success of yourself" that very rarely 18 happens in government, but it's happened in your 19 case and only one other case I can make refer 20 ence to in my tenure here in the Senate, and 21 that's with Bill Hennessy, a good friend of 22 mine, who came up through the ranks and showed 23 us that the system, in fact, does work. 3463 1 And to you, too, my hat goes off 2 to you and our Governor, who we don't always 3 agree with, but in his wisdom in troubled areas 4 he has sent you and another friend of mine into 5 these departments with a view toward remedying 6 some of the problems. 7 DOT, as I said -- and I'll end on 8 this note. I'm very happy that you are going 9 into that state agency. There is a lot of help 10 that is needed. There a lot of direction that 11 is needed there. Selling off things in DOT, 12 selling off property in my back yard to 13 privatize it in certain areas, I'm sure you are 14 going to take a hard look at that. 15 So I'm proud to get up and second 16 the motion for a very good friend of mine and 17 congratulate you for your -- I started to say 18 promotion. I'm not sure whether it's a 19 promotion or not, but for your movement and 20 thank you for your friendship through the 21 years. You have been very good to us. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 3464 1 President. I am delighted to rise and second 2 the nomination of Commissioner John Egan for 3 this important position, and I share the 4 enthusiasm that so many of my colleagues have 5 already voiced about working with an individual 6 whose talents we already know, whose 7 professionalism is beyond reproach, and who has 8 one of the very best lines of communication with 9 those of us who are often on the front line. 10 I am a little bit at a loss, 11 though, to understand a few of my colleagues who 12 made a reference to having been turned down 13 gently by Commissioner Egan in the past, in 14 reference to him saying no with a smile. Maybe 15 I'm just lucky, but I don't remember him ever 16 saying no, and I would just like to continue our 17 relationship that way, John. 18 I think Commissioner Egan is the 19 right man for the right job at a difficult 20 time. I'm sure he understands, as the rest of 21 us do, that we have a very serious problem with 22 roads and bridges. On a national scale, we are 23 ranked near the bottom. We also have a limited 3465 1 number of resources. We all realize that we are 2 going to have to tighten our belts and prepare 3 for some hard decisions ahead. We stand ready 4 to work with you, John, on that. 5 We appreciate the fact that you 6 know the entire state. Sometimes the 7 confirmation process is based upon false hope or 8 assumption or fervent prayer that the person the 9 Governor has sent up is somebody we will be able 10 to work with. In this case, our confirmation 11 powers take on an entirely different meaning 12 because most of us in this chamber have a good, 13 solid, first-hand working relationship with this 14 individual. 15 Very proud to be supporting you 16 today. Wish you the very best of luck, 17 commissioner. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Daly. 19 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 20 can remember very few instances where so many of 21 my colleagues have risen to pay their respects 22 to a person who we were appointing on any given 23 day, and there is little I can add to the 3466 1 accolades that have already been paid, but I 2 would be remiss, indeed, if I did not stand to 3 personally pay my respect and demonstrate my 4 admiration for a man who I consider a paradigm 5 of the public servants in this state. New York 6 State is lucky to have people like John, and I 7 hope that this meeting today, this confirmation 8 today clearly demonstrates to his family the 9 high regard and great respect in which he is 10 held. 11 John, we're lucky to have you; 12 we're delighted to have you. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 14 Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 16 like to 18th the nomination instead of second 17 the nomination of John. 18 I think it's been said several 19 times, but you are perceived and indeed are by 20 all of us perceived as the quintessential public 21 servant. You have spent years in the field in a 22 variety of roles. I have worked with you as 23 long ago as maybe 15 years ago when I was Mayor 3467 1 of Mamaroneck. You got the job done then. You 2 get the job done each time. And we are 3 certainly hopeful that the monies that are in 4 the pipeline and waiting to be spent under your 5 watchful eye will be moved ahead, the projects 6 will be advanced, and that we will see you 7 getting the job done for all of us around the 8 state. 9 And I would just like to add that 10 not only are you a person of competence and 11 skill in moving things along, but you are a 12 person who is very warm and someone that we 13 connect up to as a friend. And your generous 14 spirit and your consideration of each of us is 15 very much appreciated by all of us, and I think 16 that's why we felt so unanimously about you, 17 John. Happy to be here with you. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky 19 is recognized. And there will be order in the 20 chamber. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: I don't know 22 whether it is in recognition of your pending 23 confirmation that we have former members of the 3468 1 Senate, former staff members who are here. You 2 didn't need so many troops to lobby in your 3 behalf. You have many friends here among the 4 current composition of the New York State 5 Senate. 6 I tried to discourage John Egan. 7 I told him about 2,000 bridges, overhead high 8 ways and spans just in the downstate New York 9 area that were in need of inspection and perhaps 10 renovation because of the rust combination which 11 is eating away at the metal and the water that 12 is destroying even the concrete supports, and I 13 couldn't discourage him. He seemed ready to 14 tackle that kind of daunting issue. 15 I talked about the commuter 16 railroads and the subways, which really ought to 17 be inspected on a regular basis by a statewide 18 agency to make certain that we can avoid 19 mistakes such as the problems that have arisen 20 on some branches of the New York City subway, 21 the subway that goes to Queens. No sooner had 22 we replaced the track than we discovered that 23 the support structure was in need of total 3469 1 renovation. 2 So there are many calls upon his 3 services. And in spite of the best shot at 4 discouragement, he said he still wanted to do 5 the job. Why should we stand in his way? We 6 have supported his service in the state in a 7 variety of ways. He's been a commissioner. 8 Then he became executive director. I know you 9 don't want to be known as director. You'd 10 rather be known as commissioner. So if we can 11 restore him to his proper title and rang as a 12 Commissioner of Transportation of the state of 13 New York, we should do it with enthusiasm and 14 unanimity. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The question 16 occurs on the coronation -- I mean the 17 confirmation. 18 (Laughter.) 19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 20 Point of information. I just had to drive to 21 Syracuse and back. Are we still on Egan? 22 (Laughter. ) 23 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. The 3470 1 question occurs on the confirmation of the 2 nominee. All those in favor, aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Those opposed, nay. 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mendez is 7 recognized. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes, I couldn't 9 let this go. I thought that I was on the list, 10 when I signal you. 11 THE PRESIDENT: I should have 12 understood your signal. 13 (Laughter. ) 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. Well, 15 anyhow, I really cannot let this go without 16 standing up and also saying some few words on 17 account of the nomination of Commissioner Egan. 18 I have known the man for many, 19 many years. It is no accident that all my 20 colleagues here have spoken along the lines that 21 we have heard about his competence, about his 22 excellent skills and interpersonal 23 relationships. And, for one, I must say that I 3471 1 have always been very grateful for his 2 understanding that in the issue of minority 3 hiring and equal opportunity for small 4 businessmen and minority businessmen and women's 5 business, he has been a first, establishing the 6 kind of policy that would ensure that equal 7 opportunity, in fact, do occur for all the 8 residents of the state of New York. 9 So above everything that has been 10 said about you, John, I just will simply add 11 well-deserved and as a famous phrase in an TV 12 program that I used to watch long, long ago, I 13 would say to you, "John, you're the greatest." 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Can the 17 record just indicate that if former Senator, now 18 Congressman, Ackerman had a vote, he would vote 19 for Commissioner Egan also. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Unless there is 21 any other Senator who wishes recognition, then 22 the question occurs on the confirmation of the 23 nominee. 3472 1 All those in favor, aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Those opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 The ayes have it. The nominee is 6 confirmed. 7 Congratulations, John. 8 (Applause. ) 9 The Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 11 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 12 following nomination: 13 Banking Member of the state 14 Banking Board, Spencer S. Crow of Arkport. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley. 16 SENATOR FARLEY: It's pretty 17 tough to make a confirmation following John 18 Egan, but let me just say Spencer Crow, a 19 nominee for reappointment to our Banking Board, 20 is truly an outstanding person. 21 When we are talking about the 22 savings institutions or what's now called the 23 community bankers, it's their 100th anniversary, 3473 1 and we have a number of them with us here 2 today. Spencer Crow is in the gallery. Let me 3 just tell you a little bit about him. 4 He is president of the Maple City 5 Savings Association. This is a savings and 6 loan, one of the most sound in the country and 7 also a state chartered saving and loan 8 association, which is -- there's not that many 9 of them left in this state, but he has been a 10 hallmark and an example of an outstanding state 11 chartered savings and loan association. 12 He has also been of great 13 personal help to me as a member of the Banking 14 Board and somebody we should be very proud of. 15 And I commend the Governor for making this 16 outstanding appointment of Spencer Crow to the 17 Banking Board. 18 And I move his nomination. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The question 20 occurs on the confirmation of the nominee. All 21 those in favor, say aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 Those opposed, nay. 3474 1 (There was no response. ) 2 The ayes have it. The nominee is 3 confirmed. 4 Congratulations, Mr. Crow. 5 (Applause. ) 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 8 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 9 following nominations: 10 Member of the state Board of 11 Parole Leo S. Levy of Albany and Henri C. 12 Raffalli of New Hyde Park. 13 Member of the Board of Trustees 14 of the State University of New York, Arnold B. 15 Gardner, Esq., of Buffalo and Miles L. Lasser of 16 Jamestown. 17 Member of the Advisory Board on 18 Public Work, Harold L. Joyce of Albany. 19 Director of the New York State 20 Environmental Facilities Corporation, Victoria 21 S. Kennedy of Manlius. 22 Member of the Niagara Frontier 23 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation 3475 1 Commission, George M. Martin, Esq., of Buffalo. 2 Member of the Board of Directors 3 of the New York Convention Center Operating 4 Corporation, Joseph E. Spinnato of Woodbury. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The question 6 occurs on the confirmation of the nominees. 7 All those in favor, say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Those opposed, nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The ayes have it. The nominees 12 are confirmed. 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman 15 from the Committee on Investigations, Taxation, 16 and Government Operations reports the following 17 Senate bill directly for third reading: 18 Senate Bill Number 4904, by 19 Senator DeFrancisco and others, an act to amend 20 the Tax Law, in relation to the establishment of 21 a flood victims tax credit for eligible 22 taxpayers in certain counties. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Without 3476 1 objection, third reading. 2 Senator Mega. 3 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. On 4 behalf of Senator Lack, on page 13, I offer the 5 following amendments to Calendar Number 218, 6 Senate Print Number 2342, and ask that said bill 7 retain its place on - 8 THE PRESIDENT: Without 9 objection, so ordered. 10 SENATOR MEGA: On behalf of 11 Senator Spano, on page 13, I offer the following 12 amendments to Calendar Number 195, Senate Print 13 Number 1005, and ask that said bill retain its 14 place on Third Reading Calendar. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Without 16 objection, so ordered. 17 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. 18 Third Reading Calendar -- I don't have page 19 numbers, but Calendar Number 630, Calendar 20 Number 631, Calendar Number 632, and Calendar 21 Number 633, would you place a sponsor star on 22 all those bills. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bills are 3477 1 starred. 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR MEGA: And - 4 THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I'm sorry, 5 Senator Mega. 6 SENATOR MEGA: I'm sorry. And 7 Calendar Number 637, a sponsor star. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: That bill is 9 starred. 10 SENATOR MEGA: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 14 Could I ask a sponsor star be placed on Calendar 15 346 for Senator Skelos, please. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 starred. 18 Senator Seward. 19 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 20 President. I would like to place a sponsor star 21 on Calendar Number 623. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 starred. 3478 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maltese. 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 4 I offer the following privileged legislative 5 resolution and ask that its title be read. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 7 read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 9 Maltese, Legislative Resolution commemorating 10 the Beatification of Marie Louise Trichet, 11 foundress of the Daughters of Wisdom and in 12 recognition of the 290th Anniversary of the 13 congregation. 14 THE PRESIDENT: On the 15 resolution. All those in favor, say aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Those opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 The ayes have it. The resolution 20 is adopted. 21 Senator Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we adopt 23 the Resolution Calendar with the exception of 3479 1 Resolutions 1306 and 1312. 2 THE PRESIDENT: All those in 3 favor, say aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 The ayes have it. The 8 resolutions are adopted. 9 Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President. Just one of the resolutions that I 12 would like to have the title read and just be 13 heard on for a moment, Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Which? 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Number 1170. 16 It's the first one on the first page of the 17 Resolution Calendar, if the title could just be 18 read. 19 (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in 20 the chair. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Secretary will read the title of the resolution. 23 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 3480 1 Resolution Number 1170, by Senator Dollinger, 2 calling upon the Federal Emergency Management 3 Agency to provide with dispatch a definition of 4 "flood" for the purpose of resolving the 5 question of wave damage claims under the Federal 6 Flood Program. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Dollinger, on the resolution. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 10 President. This is what I think is a critical 11 issue in the days of high water. Those of us 12 who have districts that abut either Lake Ontario 13 and the Finger Lakes recognize that that high 14 water has caused a severe problem for our 15 constituents. 16 But it's not just the issue of 17 the high water. It's the issue of what happens 18 when there is wave damage and a wind storm that 19 stirs up the water and causes additional damage 20 as a consequence of the wave action itself. 21 There has been, Mr. President, a 22 controversy under the Federal Emergency 23 Managements Agency's Flood Insurance Program, 3481 1 because in the past, the Flood Insurance Program 2 has not covered wave damage. We have a number 3 of pronouncements from FEMA which suggest that 4 wave damage should be covered but, frankly, 5 we've never had a definitive opinion. The lack 6 of a definitive opinion has created a great deal 7 of uncertainty among the insurance agents and 8 among the residents who abut these lakes. The 9 insurance agents aren't sure they can sell a 10 policy that will have covered wave damage, and 11 constituents and residents are unwilling to buy 12 the policies because they can't get a guarantee 13 that wave damage is covered from the agent 14 that's selling it. 15 So we think it's critical that 16 FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, 17 issue a definitive rule that will hold that wave 18 damage caused in periods of high water is a 19 covered loss under the policy and that the 20 consumer and the constituent that lives abutting 21 the lakes will be able to recover for the 22 damage. 23 I would just point out, Mr. 3482 1 President, that this same program or a 2 relatively comparable program was in effect in 3 1973 during the last period of high water in 4 Lake Ontario. Many policies were sold. Many 5 policies were attached by banks as part of 6 mortgage requirements. And, yet, when all the 7 claims were filed, they were rejected and the 8 federal government held at that time that wave 9 damage -- or excuse me. The insurance companies 10 determined that the wave damage was not covered. 11 So what we hope to do here is to 12 bypass that log jam and eliminate the uncertain 13 ty and the confusion that seems to be a part of 14 the Federal Emergency Federal Management's wave 15 flood control problem, and it's my hope that we 16 would unanimously send to them a resolution 17 asking for this clarification because it will be 18 critical to our constituents so that they can 19 recover for wave damage caused by the storms in 20 high water periods. 21 I would simply point out, Mr. 22 President, and offer to any of my colleagues, 23 and I know many of them do represent 3483 1 constituencies that abut both lakes and other 2 bodies of water that are affected by the high 3 water conditions in western New York. 4 If anyone would like to join me 5 as a co-sponsor on this resolution, Mr. 6 President, I'd invite that, through you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 8 you. The resolution is open to anybody. Please 9 inform the desk if you wish to be a co-sponsor. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 would you recognize Senator Holland, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 16 I have a privileged resolution at the desk, and 17 I ask that most of it be read. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Secretary will read it, the privileged 20 resolution. 21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 22 Resolution Number 1312, by Senator Holland, 23 honoring and welcoming the ten students and 3484 1 staff member of Moscow School 64 upon the 2 occasion of the group's participation in the 3 United States-Russian High School Exchange 4 Program hosted by the parents and students of 5 Ramapo and Spring Valley High Schools. 6 Whereas, it is the sense of this 7 legislative body to act in accord with its 8 long-standing traditions honoring those 9 organizations and individuals whose ideals and 10 efforts are directed to promoting and preserving 11 the brotherhood of mankind through a better 12 understanding of the cultures and languages of 13 the people of other lands. 14 Attendant to such accord, the 15 Legislature of the state of New York is hereby 16 moved to join with faculty, administration, 17 parents and student bodies at Ramapo and Spring 18 Valley High Schools as they render greetings, 19 gratitude and best wishes to the visiting 20 students and faculty of Moscow School 64, 21 participating in the United States-Russian 22 Exchange Program during the month of April 1993. 23 In a unique experience of 3485 1 cultural enlightenment provided under the 2 official United States-Russian High School 3 Exchange Program sponsored by the National 4 Association of Secondary School Principals, the 5 honored guests of Moscow School 64 will visit 6 Ramapo High School in April of 1993 and stay 7 with parents of the students of Ramapo and 8 Spring Valley High Schools. 9 During a trip to Russia in 10 February of 1993, students of history and 11 government teacher, Mr. Cairns, had the 12 opportunity to meet the visiting students and 13 their "sister" school. 14 Senior students of Mr. Cairns' 15 Participation in Government class, those who 16 elect to take his Russian history course and 17 others who wish to take part, will have the 18 opportunity to become involved in the 19 internationally recognized humanitarian effort 20 of Chernobyl Fund for victims of radiation; and 21 upon the visitors' return to Russia, each 22 student will be provided with one box of medical 23 supplies destined for victims of the Chernobyl 3486 1 nuclear disaster. 2 This program and experience stand 3 as quintessential examples of fitting tribute to 4 all who would extend themselves to foster unity, 5 cooperation and the patrimony of understanding 6 and cooperation among the peoples of an 7 interdependent world. 8 This legislative body is so moved 9 to add its welcome praise in recognition of the 10 disgintuished guests from Moscow School 64, 11 during their visit to the United States and the 12 Ramapo High School; confident of the value of 13 their experience in shaping their promising 14 future and the role they will play in building 15 bridges to span the gulf between world peoples 16 and cultures; now, therefore, be it 17 Resolved, that this Legislative 18 Body pause in its deliberations to join with the 19 Ramapo and Spring Valley High School communities 20 in welcoming these distinguished guests and 21 participants of the United States-Russian 22 Exchange Program on the occasion of their visit 23 during the month of April 1993; recognizing also 3487 1 the value of the United States-Russian Exchange 2 Program in fostering international relations and 3 the significance of Ramapo High teacher Mr. 4 Cairns' contributions to strengthen the 5 experience through authentic humanitarian 6 activities; and be it further 7 Resolved, that copies of this 8 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 9 to the faculty representative of Moscow School 10 64, the principals of Ramapo and Spring Valley 11 High Schools and Mr. Cairns of Ramapo High 12 School. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 16 in this chamber today, we have a number of 17 honored guests who have traveled halfway around 18 the world to visit the United States, the state 19 of New York and Albany. 20 These visitors, ten students and 21 a teacher, representing Moscow School 64 are 22 part of an international exchange program 23 sponsored by the East Ramapo School District 3488 1 located in Rockland County. These Russian 2 students and their teacher are here to get a 3 flavor for the United States, how we live and 4 how our democracy works. 5 I am honored to welcome this 6 group, their American host families and East 7 Ramapo School District faculty and 8 administrators to Albany today. 9 Mr. President, these are very 10 special guests for me as I had the opportunity 11 to visit these students earlier this year when I 12 traveled to Moscow, Russia, with several 13 Rockland County residents on behalf of the 14 widely recognized Ramapo-Chernobyl project. 15 While in Russia, our group delivered cases and 16 cases of medical supplies to needy individuals 17 who have been affected by the Chernobyl 18 radiation disaster. 19 During the trip, our group had 20 the opportunity to visit the English speaking 21 school, Moscow School 64, and tour its grounds. 22 Two of the Russia students, Masha Appak and Lena 23 Inozemtseva -- don't giggle -- provided us with 3489 1 a tour of their school and, at the conclusion of 2 the tour, Kostya Kremnev played guitar for the 3 American group while Anna Lugovaya played the 4 piano. It is wonderful to have visited them 5 where they study and now, five months later, 6 they visit our state and where we work. 7 In addition, Mr. President, I'd 8 like to point out that our group had the 9 opportunity to view a Russia that few people 10 have probably seen. In addition to School 64, 11 we visited a collective farm, the Kremlin, Red 12 Square, Lenin's Tomb, a children's hospital 13 where the children have thyroid cancer from the 14 Chernobyl disaster, and the Palace of the 15 Congresses. 16 These Russian students are taking 17 part in an exchange program between their 18 school, Spring Valley High School and Ramapo 19 High School. While these Russian students are 20 touring the United States, an equal number of 21 American students from East Ramapo High School 22 District recently visited School 64 and Russia. 23 These participating schools and 3490 1 students have started a program that sends a 2 message to every local, state and federal leader 3 of this nation. Through working together we can 4 solve the problems of this world. I applaud 5 their efforts to build bridges of friendship and 6 to act on a global scale, not just a local one. 7 I'd like to recognize, if you 8 would bear with me, the teachers and students 9 from School 64 sitting to my right. First the 10 teacher, Nina Sukhareva; then Marsha Appak, who 11 toured the school with me; Lena Inozemtseva - 12 stay with me -- Denis Kapitonov; Alexander 13 Rybchuk -- I got that one pretty close -- Lena 14 Soloviova, Marat Akdjegitov. 15 Stand up, the people that we've 16 mentioned. If you recognize the name, stand 17 up. Anna Trifonova; Anna Lugovaya, who is the 18 piano player; and Kostya Kremnev, the 19 guitarist. 20 Also joining the Russia group on 21 the Senate floor is Sid Farber, the principal of 22 the Spring Valley High School; Martin Goldmeer, 23 the new principal of the Ramapo High School; and 3491 1 Ramapo social studies teachers, Steve Perell - 2 Steve visited Russia with us and has been over 3 there a couple times this year, I believe - 4 also Don Cairns and Pat DeFrancesco. Pat is the 5 coordinator of the Ramapo Chernobyl project. 6 I'd like to further recognize Don 7 Cairns as the engine behind the Ramapo Chernobyl 8 Fund and the Foreign Exchange Program. Don and 9 Pat organized the trip we took earlier this 10 year, where we distributed nearly $400,000 worth 11 of medical supplies to needy men, women and 12 children who have been affected by the Chernobyl 13 accident. And I'd like to point out that the 14 Ramapo Chernobyl project has distributed more 15 than $5 million worth of medical supplies over 16 the last several years. This is a great 17 achievement. 18 In addition, Don Cairns has 19 visited Belarus and the Soviet Union many 20 times and has gotten his students actively 21 involved and interested in international affairs 22 not just on the state and federal level but also 23 on the international level. 3492 1 I commend him and everyone 2 involved in these programs for a job well done. 3 In addition, I would like to 4 recognize the students and parents who are 5 hosting these Russian students. They are 6 located in the gallery directly in front of me. 7 I thank them for their contribution to the lives 8 of these Russia students and for making their 9 visit to the United States so special and 10 unforgettable. 11 I ask that these notable guests 12 be welcomed to the state and that all of the 13 associated courtesies be extended to them, and 14 thank you very much, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 16 you, Senator Holland. 17 Let me say on behalf of the New 18 York State Senate how pleased we are to have you 19 in our country. 20 Welcome to the faculty. We're 21 very proud of what you are trying to accomplish. 22 And to the guests in the gallery, 23 we also welcome you. 3493 1 And on behalf of the Senate, 2 we're grateful to have you here and for what you 3 are doing and best wishes, and come back and 4 visit us again. 5 Thank you very much. 6 (Applause) 7 Now we will adopt the 8 resolution. On the resolution on behalf of the 9 Russian students, all those in favor say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Those opposed, nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The resolution is adopted. 14 All the resolutions have been 15 adopted. We do have some substitutions. 16 Senator Present, what's your 17 pleasure? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Adopt the 19 resolutions. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 21 done that. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 5 of 23 today's calendar, Senator Skelos moves to 3494 1 discharge the Committee on Insurance from 2 Assembly Bill Number 505 and substitute it for 3 the identical Calendar Number 714. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Substitution ordered. 6 THE SECRETARY: On page 25, 7 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the Committee 8 on Civil Service and Pensions from Assembly Bill 9 Number 6989A and substitute it for the identical 10 Third Reading 610. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution ordered. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page 28, 14 Senator Skelos moves to discharge the Committee 15 on Education from Assembly Bill Number 4463 and 16 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 17 638. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Substitution is ordered. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 can we have the title of Resolution 1306 read 23 and adopted. 3495 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 2 certainly may. 1306, would you read the title. 3 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 4 Resolution Number 1306, by Senator Marino, 5 Legislative Resolution calling upon the Congress 6 of the United States to rescind the action of 7 the Office of Management and Budget in combining 8 Long Island, Westchester, New York City and 9 northern New Jersey into one primary 10 metropolitan statistical area. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 12 resolution. All those in favor, aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Those opposed, nay. 15 (Response of "Nay." ) 16 The resolution is adopted. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 I believe we're ready to take up the 20 noncontroversial calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We are 22 if you are. 23 Senator Present, Senator Maltese 3496 1 would like to be recognized to open up a 2 resolution. Is that agreeable before we start 3 that? 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Maltese. 7 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 8 Legislative Resolution 1343, expressing 9 sincerest sorrow upon the occasion of the death 10 of Jim Valvano, the head coach at North Carolina 11 State, I would like to open that resolution to 12 all members of the house. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: If the 14 members would approach the desk or let the desk 15 know, for Mr. Valvano's untimely death, please 16 let the desk know. 17 We're ready for the calendar. 18 The Secretary will read. Noncontroversial. 19 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 20 Calendar Number 290, by Senator Padavan, Senate 21 Bill Number 1577, Administrative Code of the 22 city of New York. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 3497 1 is a home rule message at the desk. 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 334, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 796A, 13 an act to amend the General Business Law. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Can you give me 18 one half a second, please? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Marchi. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 22 if you will consent to a -- just a brief 23 interlude, we have some distinguished guests 3498 1 that are here today. They come here annually in 2 response to a gathering of the clan of the St. 3 John's University here in Albany, and they will 4 be hosted by the Governor within the hour, and 5 some of them are in the galleries at the present 6 time. I look up here, and I believe they are 7 deployed. Father Jim Smith; Dean Rudolph 8 Hassel, St. John's University School of Law; the 9 Presiding Justice of the Second Department, Guy 10 Mangano, and a former colleague of ours; also a 11 former Senator -- I shouldn't say former, we 12 have that title for life -- Al Lewis; and 13 Senator and Judge Frank Pino; Assemblyman Joe 14 Kunzeman; John Monteleon; and I am assured that 15 there are other distinguished members of the 16 federal and state bar and bench up there; and if 17 I had their names, I would be introducing them. 18 But I want to guarantee this body that we have a 19 very impressive array of stars up here in the 20 gallery, and I know that you will extend your 21 welcome in your own inimitable fashion, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 3499 1 you, Senator Marchi. To the stars in the 2 gallery, we're so honored to have you here with 3 us and we hope you will come back and visit us 4 again. We need stars in the gallery. 5 Senator Gold, are you -- okay. 6 Let's continue. 511. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 511, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 1653A, 9 an act to amend the Education Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 516, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 3642, 22 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3500 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 537, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 12 1432, General Municipal Law and the Town Law. 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 539, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 18 1766A, authorizing the town of Cheektowaga to 19 lease certain parklands. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 21 is a home rule message here at the desk. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3501 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 568, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4156, 10 authorizing the Commissioner of General Services 11 to sell certain lands in the town of Ulster. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 574, by Senator Johnson. 3502 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 600, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3027, 5 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation 6 to the purchase of prescription drugs. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 602, by Senator Velella. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 14 aside. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 for the day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 18 aside for today. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 618, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 35, 21 amend Chapter 154. 22 SENATOR DALY: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 3503 1 aside. 2 SENATOR DALY: On behalf of the 3 sponsor, Mr. President, will you star Calendar 4 618. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor, 7 618. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 619, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 1651, 10 creating an inter-agency council. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: 620, by Senator 22 Velella, Senate Bill Number 2562. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 3504 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: For the day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the 5 day. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 621, by member of the Assembly Bennett, Assembly 8 Bill Number 6857, Executive Law, in relation to 9 the definition and provisions of rural areas. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: 622, by member of 21 the Assembly Bennett, Assembly Bill Number 6856, 22 Executive Law, in relation fought preparation 23 and submittal of the annual report of the Office 3505 1 of Rural Affairs. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: 624, by member of 13 the Assembly Grannis, Assembly Bill Number 2929, 14 General Business Law, in relation to the sale of 15 dogs and cats. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 1. 3506 1 Senator DeFrancisco - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I 5 explain my vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 7 certainly may. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill 9 would require a notice to be posted of pet 10 purchasers' rights to have the pet checked out 11 by a veterinarian and returned within fourteen 12 days if there's a problem. Present law already 13 requires the store to give a written notice to 14 each person they sell an animal to, and I think 15 it's a little bit of overkill now to require a 16 posted sign in addition to the written notice. 17 I understand the need to tell consumers what 18 their rights are, but I guess the next step 19 might be to require a written notice to read the 20 posted sign so that they make sure they know 21 that there's a posted sign. At some point, the 22 right to give notice has to give way to 23 reasonable business practices, and that's why 3507 1 I'm voting no. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Negatives raise their hands, please. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 2. 5 Senators Daly and DeFrancisco recorded in the 6 negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 626, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 4208, 11 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to 12 requirements for unit pricing of consumer 13 commodities. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 627, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number 19 1120A, authorizing the city of New York to 20 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 22 is a home rule message here at the desk. 23 Read the last section. 3508 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 628, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 11 1126, authorizing the city of New York to 12 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. Oh, before you read the last 15 section, there is a home rule message here at 16 the desk. 17 Now you can read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3509 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 629, by member of the Assembly Abbate, Assembly 6 Bill Number 3644, authorizing the city of New 7 York to reconvey its interest in certain real 8 property. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 10 is a home rule message at the desk on this bill. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 634, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4409, 22 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3510 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 638, by member of the Assembly DiNapoli, 12 Assembly Bill Number 4463, Education Law, in 13 relation to estimated expenses for the ensuing 14 year of certain school districts. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3511 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 639, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 4 4237, an act relating to state aid to North 5 Warren Central School District. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 7 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 640, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 4343, 19 authorize the Department of Education to 20 apportion transportation aid. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Local 22 fiscal impact note is here at the desk. 23 Read the last section. 3512 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: 642, by Senator 10 Saland, Senate Bill Number 45 - 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 644, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4560, 16 an act to amend the Family Court Act. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 - 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3513 1 Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you have 3 called up 642. Inadvertently I asked it be laid 4 aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call up 6 642. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 642, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4544, 9 an act to amend the Executive Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 644 has been laid aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 645, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 1142, 23 an act to amend the Real Property Law. 3514 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 649, by member of the Assembly Weinstein, 13 Assembly Bill Number 5866, Estates, Powers and 14 Trusts Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3515 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 650, by member of the Assembly Lasher, Assembly 4 Bill Number 4349, General Obligations Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: 659, by Senator 16 Holland, Senate Bill Number 1806, an act to 17 provide for payment to providers for certain 18 claims. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3516 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: 661, by Senator 7 Spano, Senate Bill Number 4337. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 662, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 13 4479, an act to amend - 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 666, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 3498, 19 an act to amend the Penal Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 3517 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Ayes 8 55, nays one, Senator Montgomery recorded in the 9 negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 667, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3866, 14 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3518 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: 672, by Senator 3 Volker, Senate Bill Number 4209, Criminal 4 Procedure Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: 673, by Senator 16 Saland, Senate Bill Number 4417, Criminal 17 Procedure Law and the Family Court Act. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 674, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4460, 23 Civil Practice Law and Rules. 3519 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: 679, by Senator 12 Stafford. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 14 aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 680, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 19 1275, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 20 Law and the Administrative Code of the city of 21 New York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 23 is a home rule message here at the desk. 3520 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: 681, by Senator 11 Cook, Senate Bill Number 2273, an act to amend 12 the Highway Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 14 is a home rule message here at the desk. 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3521 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 682. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 4 aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 683, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 3005, 9 Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to the 10 inspection of motor vehicles. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: 684, by Senator 22 Maltese, Senate Bill Number 3228, Vehicle and 23 Traffic Law, in relation to providing for $1.50 3522 1 fee for a ten-year non-driver identification 2 card. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Present, that's the first 14 time through. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 let's take up the controversial calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Controversial calendar. But, before that, 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. Could I put a sponsor star on two of 22 my bills? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 3523 1 certainly may. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Calendar Number 3 625 and Calendar Number 686. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 625 and 5 686 are starred at the request of the sponsor. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Secretary will read controversial. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 10 calendar Number 334, by Senator Saland, Senate 11 Bill Number 7896A, an act to amend the General 12 Business Law. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 14 temporarily. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside temporarily. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 537, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 19 1432. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 21 for the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside for the day. 3524 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 574, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 3 1961, an act to amend the Environmental 4 Conservation Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Explanation. Senator Johnson. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 8 this is a bill for the conservation of striped 9 bass, the preservation of the species. It would 10 end all commercial exploitation of striped bass, 11 permit only a recreational fishery as is in 12 place in most of the states from Maine down to 13 Pennsylvania. 14 New Jersey made striped bass a 15 game fish only a few years ago. Right now, 16 Delaware and North Carolina are doing it. This 17 is required to protect the species from over 18 exploitation which has taken place under the 19 management of the DEC. 20 With some complicity from the 21 commercial fishermen, they have succeeded in 22 overharvesting this past year, doing damage to 23 the fishery and calling into question the 3525 1 survival of the species, the reproduction of the 2 species. 3 In 1984, we did a bill changing 4 the size limits of striped bass from 16 inches 5 to 24 inches in order to permit the striped bass 6 to live long enough to reproduce. At that time, 7 with incomplete information provided by the 8 United States Marine Fisheries Commission of 9 which I am one of the commissioners, it was 10 assumed that the majority of the striped bass 11 females would be mature by the time they reached 12 the 24-inch length. We found out now that they 13 don't mature until 37 inches, and we have had a 14 limit for some years on the exploitation of fish 15 up to 36 inches by recreational fishermen, 16 essentially protecting them. 17 One of the other problems which 18 has come in trying to restore the stock of 19 striped bass is that the recoupment, or the 20 propagation, of survivable eggs to become an 21 infant fish and ultimately to survive has been 22 much lower than normal, much lower than 23 anticipated, particularly in Chesapeake Bay 3526 1 which historically has provided for 90 percent 2 of the striped bass along the Eastern Coast, 3 Eastern Seaboard. The recoupment has been so 4 bad in Maryland and Virginia and the area 5 encompassed in the Chesapeake Bay that they are 6 nowhere near reproducing sufficient to keep the 7 fishery going. It's better in the Hudson 8 River. But the end result is that with the bad 9 recoupment down south and not too good here, the 10 stock has depreciated over the years. 11 We got a recreational fishery of 12 1.16 million recreational fishermen who have the 13 season, and they can only take one fish a day. 14 At the same time, two years ago, in response to 15 political pressure -- now, the fishery had been 16 closed for commercial fishermen, commercial 17 exploitation. Two years ago, in response to 18 political pressure from members of the ASFMC, 19 particularly Virginia, Maryland, and as well as 20 New York, they permitted the opening of the 21 commercial fishery in 1990, and the fishery 22 landings have gone up; but when you boil it all 23 down, it's still not a great commercial 3527 1 importance in this state. We had 357 commercial 2 fishermen last year. The average harvest is 3 less than 500 pounds at $3 a pound. 4 The new standard proposed because 5 of the overfishing, by DEC, would permit only 6 134,000 pounds which would be essentially 345 7 pounds per fisherman or about a thousand dollars 8 of value. 9 Now, fishermen obviously fish for 10 many other species, as well as fish, clams, 11 lobsters, and so on, so they're not dependent 12 upon this for a livelihood, but they have been 13 overexploiting it, and the amount of fish killed 14 by commercial fishermen has been almost equal to 15 that -- 357 commercial fishermen -- almost been 16 equal to that killed, not necessarily taken but 17 killed, by recreational fishermen who number 18 over a million people. So as you can see, the 19 commercial overexploitation is a danger to the 20 survival of these fish. 21 I think there's much evidence 22 been presented not only that the DEC would 23 continue the commercial fishery despite the 3528 1 hazards of the recruitment and survival of the 2 fish, but they might even be intending to go 3 back to the most wasteful method of fishing 4 which is haul seining, and I think the DEC has 5 demonstrated in the last few years that due to 6 political pressure in the AFSMC itself, whose 7 restrictions they say they abide by, they are 8 down there at the same time, team up with 9 Maryland and Virginia, to try to provide further 10 exploitation by commercial fishermen. 11 It's not a good situation. It's 12 got to change. Other states, as I say, from 13 Maine, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, 14 New Jersey have no sale, no commercial fishery. 15 It's being explored at this time because of the 16 problems by Delaware and North Carolina, 17 Maryland, Virginia. They're also proposing to 18 control this and make it only a game fish 19 species on the East Coast as, indeed, it is on 20 the West Coast and has been for the last sixty 21 years. 22 So this is a bill which is very 23 timely. It has a lot of support. It's not 3529 1 going to harm the commercial fishermen to any 2 great extent. It's going to help protect the 3 stock, and I think that's a very salutary reason 4 for this bill to be here today. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 LaValle. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 8 on the bill. I know that for many of our 9 colleagues, they often say to me and I know to 10 Senator Johnson, When are we going to have our 11 annual debate over one of the fishing bills? 12 And, indeed, throughout the years, my senior 13 colleague from Suffolk and I do enter into a 14 debate over the management of -- of the marine 15 life. 16 I must preface my remarks by 17 saying that as chairman of our Committee on 18 Environmental Conservation, Senator Johnson has, 19 not only the years he's been chairman but prior 20 to that, really devoted himself to trying to 21 maintain a quality of our marine life. 22 Today's debate is a very, very 23 important one, and it's one that I come to the 3530 1 floor today and would hope that our colleagues 2 have an open mind, because too many times we 3 come to the debate and we make remarks for the 4 record. But today, I believe the facts and the 5 evidence are so very, very clear. They are so 6 clear that I'm going to lay out and spend some 7 time establishing a record here. 8 Now, let me just make one other 9 point. Senator Johnson represents, as many of 10 us do in this great forum, a point of view and a 11 particular interest. He represents the sports 12 fishermen on this issue and on many other 13 issues. I have represented the point of view of 14 the commercial fishermen who have a deep and 15 long history in the First Senatorial District. 16 And I believe that if I were not to get up in 17 many of these debates, the point of view of the 18 commercial fishermen would not really be 19 represented, because Senator Johnson represents 20 1.1 million sports fishermen. I am representing 21 in this debate people whose livelihood -- 357 22 commercial fishermen. 357 commercial fishermen. 23 Now, Senator Johnson opened his 3531 1 remarks and said that his legislation is one of 2 conservation to protect the marine life. He 3 doesn't want to see exploitation. He doesn't 4 want to see damage to the species. The numbers 5 are so clear, are so clear. The people that 6 Senator Johnson represents catch 80 percent of 7 the striped bass. The people that I am 8 representing catch 20 percent of the striped 9 bass. The people that Senator Johnson 10 represents, the record that we have, caught 11 837,000 pounds, and the folks that I represent 12 caught 226,000 pounds. 13 Now, if we are worried and we are 14 talking about management of the species, I've 15 got to tell you, the numbers just defy logic 16 from Senator Johnson's point of view. I mean 80 17 percent versus 20 percent, 800,000 pounds that 18 his people catch versus 200,000 pounds, and 19 we're saying we're worried about the species and 20 we want to push out the group that is catching 21 20 percent? I mean I just -- it is mind 22 boggling. 23 I'm going to recite these figures 3532 1 over and over again because it really in this 2 debate -- the debate is that simple because it's 3 illogical. 4 Now, my senior colleague is quite 5 a crafty legislator. I've got to believe that 6 this legislation is on the floor of the Senate 7 because the DEC is considering regulations or 8 there is some other reason that this legislation 9 is before us. I must say that I believe the 10 Governor is on record, as is the Department, 11 that they are opposed to this legislation. So 12 that assuming that this legislation would pass 13 today, the Governor has indicated that he would 14 veto it, and his Department has not only 15 presented a memorandum opposed, but I have never 16 seen in the years that I have been here a 17 memorandum from the DEC that strongly opposes a 18 bill before us. 19 Now, one of the problems the 20 people who I represent who have been involved in 21 the marine fisheries as commercial fishermen for 22 hundreds of years, and this has been handed down 23 from one generation to another. Who are these 3533 1 people? Well, one of my constituents -- and I 2 have many who are authors in Eastern Long 3 Island. Peter Matthiessen wrote a book called 4 Men's Lives: The Surfmen and the Baymen of the 5 South Fork. And I have talked so many times 6 about some of the names of the commercial 7 fishermen who are recorded in history, the 8 Havens and the Lesters, the Kings and many, many 9 other names, but I think that Peter Matthiessen 10 lays out -- I'm going to, hopefully, not bore 11 you, but I think Matthiessen lays it out very, 12 very well. And it's some -- part of the problem 13 about the commercial fishermen and why they are 14 just many times buried under and legislation 15 passes here. 16 Matthiessen says: "They are 17 tough, resourceful, self-respecting and also, 18 some say, hidebound and cranky, too independent 19 to organize for their own survival. Yet even 20 their critics must acknowledge a gritty spirit 21 that was once more highly valued in this country 22 than it is today because their children can no 23 longer afford to live where their families have 3534 1 harvested the sea and the land for 300 years. 2 These South Fork Baymen, old time Americans, who 3 still speak with the Kentish and Dorset 4 inflections of Elizabethan England, may soon 5 become rare relics from the past like the 6 Atlantic white whales, a cow, a calf, that in 7 the winter of 1984-85 had been appearing here 8 and there off the ocean beach." 9 Matthiessen also talks about - 10 just to give you a perspective of who these 11 people are and what they do and what they are up 12 against as commercial fishermen; and indeed, 13 they are the true commercial fishermen. They 14 are not part-timers who have a job and just go 15 out and fish, do lobstering, or fish and sell it 16 to our restaurants. 17 Matthiessen says here, "Full-time 18 baymen -- there are scarcely 100 left on the 19 South Fork -- must also be competent boatmen, 20 netmen, carpenters, and mechanics and most could 21 make good money at a trade, but they value 22 independence over security preferring to work on 23 their own schedule responsible only to their own 3535 1 families. Protective of their freedom to the 2 point of stubbornness, wishing only to be left 3 alone, they have never asked for and never 4 received direct subsidies from the town or 5 county, state or federal government. Being 6 self-employed, they receive none of the modern 7 social supports such as unemployment insurance 8 and sickness compensation; and because their 9 income is uncertain and irregular, they can 10 rarely obtain bank loans and mortgages. Yet 11 every year, they find themselves taxed harder 12 for their boats and trailers, trucks and 13 gasoline, shellfish digging and shipping 14 licenses, docking lines, scallop opening 15 license, permits to take certain species." 16 And you've seen Senator Johnson 17 here session after session passing legislation 18 requiring permits and seasons, and these are the 19 very people who have to deal with the 20 regulations that have been imposed. 21 Just one more piece that I would 22 like to read because I think it reflects how 23 long this debate has been going on that Senator 3536 1 Johnson and I have talked about, whether it be 2 striped bass or other issues. This issue on 3 striped bass goes back to the 1930s, and the 4 East Hampton Star had in one of its pieces, 5 February 2, 1934, and it goes to show you how 6 things change but they don't change, "The sports 7 fishing organizations are seeking such 8 legislation here on the east end of Long Island 9 as our people do not want. It affects the 10 freedom of our bays to everyone and permits only 11 such fishing methods as their bill might 12 approve." 13 And so I'm going to read you some 14 other editorials of today. South Hampton Press 15 talks about, "Debate has begun in the state 16 legislature over a proposal to declare the 17 striped bass a game fish prohibiting the sale of 18 any wild stripers. The bill has been filed in 19 the Legislature at the behest of groups 20 representing recreational fishermen. Those 21 groups sanctimoniously declare that it is their 22 abiding concern for the welfare of the 23 threatened bass that motivates them. 'Greedy 3537 1 commercial fishermen threaten the survival of 2 the noble striper,' they declare. Hogwash! 3 Recreational fishermen kill far more stripers 4 than do commercial fishermen. They land more 5 stripers than do commercial fishermen, and they 6 kill even more stripers than they land because 7 so many of the stripers released by recreational 8 fishermen die soon thereafter. The simple truth 9 is that the recreational fishermen are putting 10 far more pressure on striped bass populations 11 than commercial fishermen are." 12 And I read you the statistics. 13 80 percent versus 20 percent. 800,000 pounds 14 versus 226,000 pounds. I leave it to you to say 15 who is destroying the marine resource. 16 The East Hampton Star -- this is 17 now 1993 not 1934 -- "The 1992 Chesapeake spawn 18 of striped bass was one of the three largest in 19 the last 20 years. So large, in fact, that 20 officials feared the bass would consume 21 Maryland's entire crop of valuable crabs." And 22 it goes on, "Despite all this, a bill introduced 23 in the New York State Legislature two weeks 3538 1 ago..." This editorial, by the way, appeared in 2 February. "... two weeks ago would hand striped 3 bass over entirely to recreational anglers. The 4 bill's sponsor, Senator Owen Johnson..." and it 5 goes on and on talking about the sports 6 fishermen, much as it did some sixty years ago. 7 It's like the clock had stopped. 8 Resolution -- we get resolutions 9 all the time from our towns. Resolution from 10 the town of East Hampton. It's the same town, 11 some of you may have read, where there was a 12 demonstration by Billy Joel, by the Supervisor 13 Tony Bullock, and many others, pointing out the 14 problems and the woes and the imbalance on this 15 issue that our commercial fishermen must face. 16 And they gave us a resolution opposing the 17 striped bass game fish bill. "That the town 18 board of the town of East Hampton opposes 19 Assembly Bill A-3390 and Senate Bill 1961 in the 20 strongest terms possible and calls into question 21 the moral and scientific justification for 22 conferring game fish status on one of long 23 Island's most popular eating fish; and further 3539 1 be it resolved..." Et cetera, and on and on and 2 on. 3 Now, let me get to the 4 department's position. And I know that all of 5 us have had problems with the DEC. I must tell 6 you that I have not seen in a more public way a 7 memorandum in bold type strongly opposing this 8 legislation. "Department of Environmental 9 Conservation strongly opposes this legislation 10 which eliminates the department's authority to 11 regulate striped bass and which bans the sale 12 and commercial harvesting of striped bass in New 13 York. The ban on the sale of commercial 14 harvesting of striped bass is unwarranted and 15 without scientific basis. Current restrictions 16 on commercial and recreational catch of striped 17 bass are sufficient to protect the resources and 18 there is no need -- no need to further reduce 19 harvest at this time. If such a need develops, 20 it would be necessary to reduce both -- both 21 commercial and recreational catch because New 22 York's recreational catch far exceeds commercial 23 landings. New York's recreational harvest 3540 1 totaled 12.4 percent and 14.4 percent of the 2 total coastwide harvest for striped bass for the 3 years 1990 and 1991. While the state's 4 commercial harvest for the same time two years 5 comprised only 2.2 percent and 2.3 percent, 6 respectively." 7 So again, the facts and if you 8 listen to the facts, they just overwhelmingly 9 support defeat of this legislation. 10 There was a letter by the 11 director of the DEC legislative unit. "I'm 12 writing to correct an error in the March 29 13 edition of the Legislative Gazette." The letter 14 goes on, of course, opposed to Senator Johnson's 15 bill. There's something very key here. It 16 says, "If a need develops to further protect 17 striped bass, it is more likely that the 18 recreational harvest which exceeds the 19 commercial harvest by about 3 to 1 would be 20 curtailed." So once again, the DEC is saying 21 wait a minute. Wait a minute. Look at the 22 numbers. It's not the commercial fishermen who 23 are causing the problem. It's the recreational 3541 1 fishermen. There must be another reason why we 2 have this legislation on the floor, and why 3 we're trying to keep the commercial fishermen 4 from making a living, doing something they've 5 done for hundreds of years and change the 6 balance in this state from one class of 7 individuals to another and also deprive - 8 deprive, ladies and gentlemen, in restaurants 9 across the state, the ability to enjoy striped 10 bass. The only people who would be able to 11 enjoy it are those who catch it. 12 Senator Johnson talked about the 13 Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. In 14 a piece here again, "Based on the most 15 scientific information available, the Hudson 16 stock continues to be in good condition while 17 the Chesapeake and Delaware stocks are 18 improving." 19 Some of you might recall the 20 debate. There were members who were not here in 21 1984, when the legislation passed increasing the 22 size of striped bass. And at that time, I said 23 over and over again the problem wasn't that we 3542 1 were catching too many. The problem down in the 2 Maryland Chesapeake area was one of pollution, 3 one of pollution, and we are doing a lot to 4 reverse that. 5 The East Hampton Town Baymen's 6 Association goes on to document over and over 7 again, why are they picking on us? Why is the 8 Legislature proposing this bill when the figures 9 show very, very clearly that we, the commercial 10 fishermen, are only catching 20 percent, or 11 226,000 pounds, as opposed to the recreational 12 fishermen who are catching 80 percent or 837,000 13 pounds. Since no purpose of conservation would 14 be accomplished by making bass a game fish, what 15 is the point of depriving consumers of a 16 preferred item on the menus of restaurants as 17 well as in the home? 18 And, lastly, Brookhaven Baymen's 19 Association, "That indicates very, very clearly, 20 we would like to emphasize, that strict 21 coastwide management set forth by the ASMFC 22 including size and gear restrictions, limited 23 entry, record keeping and quotas as implemented 3543 1 by the New York State DEC has, in fact, resulted 2 in the strong rebound of the species." 3 So, my colleagues, I say to you 4 today and I've tried to lay out as factually as 5 I can what I believe are really bogus arguments 6 on the part of my colleague, Senator Johnson. 7 This argument has been going on for literally 8 decades and probably there will be two 9 legislators, maybe from Long Island, from other 10 parts of the state, 20 or 30 years from now on 11 this floor exceeding our lifetime, political 12 lifetime, I would think, Senator Johnson, 13 arguing, making the same arguments, and the 14 arguments really are very, very simple. It's 15 the recreational fishermen wants something that 16 the commercial fishermen of. They've redefined 17 who a commercial fisherman is. 18 As you know in many parts of Long 19 Island, commercial fishermen are really people 20 who have a full-time job, have some extra time 21 during the work week or week ends, go out, clam, 22 catch fish, catch lobsters, sell them to 23 restaurants. They have used the legislative 3544 1 process because their numbers using the 1.1 2 million sports fishermen as both a shield and a 3 sword has produced legislation that you have so 4 skillfully devised and gotten through both 5 houses. But, Senator, I must tell you that this 6 legislation at this time is not warranted. It 7 really isn't, and it means a whole lot of 8 difference to the people in my district who work 9 as commercial fishermen, whose families have 10 worked as commercial fishermen and who an author 11 devoted an entire book and who, as everyone 12 knows the name Billy Joel, a song to these 13 people who really by the sweat of their brow 14 have really made an investment in our county, 15 have produced for the people I think something 16 really decent and we should not destroy it. We 17 should not destroy it. 18 So I ask my colleagues to look at 19 the facts, the evidence that I think is 20 overwhelming, and I ask your support for the 21 commercial fishermen of my district and vote no. 22 (Whereupon, Senator Volker was in 23 the chair. ) 3545 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Solomon. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. Will Senator Johnson yield, please? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Johnson, do you yield? 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Solomon. Senator Johnson yields. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: As you know, I 11 try and go recreational fishing. I just have 12 two questions after reading the DEC memo. One, 13 is there a different size limit for commercial 14 fishermen than recreational fishermen? 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: There is. Can 17 you tell me what the size limit for commercial 18 fishermen is? 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. It's 24 20 to 39 inches. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Is that in the 22 coastal area or south of the Washington Bridge? 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, yes, from 3546 1 George Washington Bridge south. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: It's 24 inches? 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: No -- yes, 4 twenty... For commercial 24 to 39 inches. It's 5 36 inches for recreational fishermen. 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay. That's 7 question number 1. So commercial fishermen are 8 allowed - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 10 yields. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, 12 correct me if I'm wrong, but if I go out 13 recreational fishing in New York Bay, out in 14 Graves End Bay and I catch a 33-inch striped 15 bass and the commercial fisherman catches it, I 16 have to throw that 33-inch striped bass back but 17 the commercial fisherman can keep that 33-inch 18 striped bass? 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's correct. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay. Just 21 another question, Senator Johnson. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 Johnson, do you continue to yield? 3547 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Does he yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: He 4 yields. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Does the 6 department -- the department memo, at the bottom 7 of the department memo, it indicates that they 8 seem to be thinking about changing the 36-inch 9 minimum and lowering it for recreational 10 fishermen. Have you had any discussions with 11 them? Are they considering that change this 12 year? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, no, as a 14 matter of fact, it has been permitted for 15 recreational fishermen to take 28-inch fish, but 16 -- I mean the ASMFC plan would permit 28-inch 17 fish, but the recreational fishermen in their 18 desire to preserve the species and to insure 19 their reproduction have asked the department to 20 stay with 36 inches for recreational fishermen, 21 and that's what's been done. We could have gone 22 to 28 if we chose to do so. Well, I mean 23 because we're interested -- the recreational 3548 1 fishermen are interested in the continuation of 2 the species not just getting all the meat they 3 can get as quick as they can get it. 4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 5 if Senator Johnson will continue to yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 Johnson, will you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR SOLOMON: What I'm 9 concerned about, Senator, is that in my area the 10 -- I guess you call them recreational, but the 11 people who run small charter boats in the Sheeps 12 Head Bay-Graves End area have complained that in 13 fact it's almost impossible in that Graves End 14 Bay-Sheeps Head Bay area to land a 36-inch 15 striped bass today. It's maybe one out of a 16 hundred. Whereas, they had felt the problem 17 being that New Jersey, which is literally only 18 two miles away and across the bay, had a lower 19 limit and they would much rather have a limit 20 just a few inches lower, possibly 28 inches, 30 21 inches, and that's what they are concerned 22 about. I'm just wondering whether the 23 department according to this memo has been 3549 1 having discussions about changing that limit 2 now? 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, do you 4 have a question? Did I miss the last point of 5 your question? 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. I 7 think -- okay. The people that hire small 8 charter boats out in the Graves End-Sheeps Head 9 Bay area have said that it's very rare to catch 10 a 36-inch striped bass in that area. Generally, 11 it might be one out of a hundred, one percent of 12 the fish landed might be 36 inches. They've 13 also stated only a few miles away in the New 14 Jersey waters you can catch fish at a lower 15 limit. I believe it's 28 inches. 16 I'd just like to know whether or 17 not -- because this bill freezes the limit - 18 whether or not the department has been 19 considering or talking about making that change 20 in this year? Because they really consider it a 21 blight on their business, on the small charter 22 business, having that 36-inch limit. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, Senator, 3550 1 if this bill passes, the DEC will not have 2 regulatory control over the striped bass any 3 more, and this limit will stay into effect as 4 did our 24-inch from 16 inches in 1984 until 5 it's changed by the Legislature. 6 We feel, unfortunately, though 7 the case might be made by some people that this 8 is a political bill, actually the political 9 activities are taking place in the ASMFC and the 10 Department of Environmental Conservation; 11 whereas, the people who are interested in the 12 survival of these species want this limit to 13 stay in effect and this ban on commercial 14 exploitation in order to guarantee the 15 continuation of the species. That means we can 16 change it, as we're -- as we would be 17 attempting to do now, if that was the desire of 18 the Legislature to do so and if the recruitment 19 out there demonstrates that there is a 20 continuing -- a population large enough to 21 continue the reproduction of the species. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: One last 23 question, Mr. President. 3551 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Johnson yields. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Does New Jersey 4 bar commercial fishermen, Senator? Are you 5 aware? 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. New 7 Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New 8 Hampshire, Maine. The only place where it's 9 open is Massachusetts, and that's just a hook 10 and line fishery. 11 And that's one of the problems 12 with the Noble Knights of the Sea as portrayed 13 by Senator LaValle, that their attitude as 14 recently expressed by their director. Arnold 15 Leo said, "We have the right to catch all the 16 striped bass we want, whenever we want, by 17 whatever means we want." And that's one of the 18 reasons why they have killed many more fish than 19 they have ever taken because of their gill nets, 20 their pound nets, and of course the now banned 21 haul seine method which suffocates all of the 22 fish whether they are desirable or not and 23 leaves very few in the net actually of legal 3552 1 size to be sold but the rest are dead, 2 nevertheless. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Johnson. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: If I may I 7 would just like to sum up that there have been 8 many abuses by the - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Johnson. Senator Dollinger is looking for 11 recognition. 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Oh, I didn't 13 know, Senator. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 15 President. I want to apologize to my colleague, 16 through you, Mr. President. He was going to sum 17 up. I just had a couple brief comments on this 18 bill. 19 I come to the striped bass debate 20 I guess with a different perspective from 21 several of my colleagues. I've never seen one, 22 never caught one, and never tasted one. But I 23 do have a lesson that comes to you from Western 3553 1 New York that involves trout, salmon and frankly 2 the resource that we have in abundance in Lake 3 Ontario, and it's just an example that I think 4 we should all think about as we discuss, and I 5 have to acknowledge Senator LaValle's very 6 powerful plea for both an industry and for his 7 community. 8 One, I guess I'm surprised. As I 9 read it, Senator LaValle -- and certainly jump 10 up and correct me if I'm correct -- what DEC is 11 doing and what Senator Johnson is trying to 12 avoid or trying to eliminate is a fishing 13 industry. Is that correct? I mean DEC in their 14 current policy will protect this commercial 15 fishing industry, people who make their 16 livelihood in the commercial fishing business, 17 which -- as most of the members of this chamber, 18 I'm sure, have heard this before -- DEC is often 19 accused of not doing. Since it's usually DEC 20 that's accused of putting people out of 21 business, I find it ironic that DEC is in the 22 business of protecting the commercial fisheries 23 in this case. 3554 1 But the example of Lake Ontario 2 and the fishing horticulture of Lake Ontario is 3 one that should be kept in mind as this debate 4 occurs. In the late 1880s, Lake Ontario was 5 filled with lake trout. There was an enormous 6 commercial fishery based in Lake Ontario because 7 of the abundance of lake trout. By the early 8 part of this century, it was wiped out, no 9 indigenous predator fish of any major size in 10 Lake Ontario. It was through the action of DEC 11 that the introduction of the chinook and the 12 Coho salmon and all of the trout back into the 13 lake occurred. 14 We're now -- Senator Daly, who 15 isn't here, he and I have talked a number of 16 times about the continuing DEC management of the 17 fishery population in the lake. There has been 18 a proposal to reduce the stocking this year by 19 50 percent as a consequence of a diminution in 20 the fish that's the target of the predator, a 21 little fish called the alewife. 22 The lesson in all this, I think, 23 Mr. President, is that, as I see it, DEC is in 3555 1 an unusual posture here of protecting a 2 commercial fishery. And I, for one, who have 3 had my disputes with DEC about the wisdom of 4 their choices in regulation of the fish in my 5 neck of New York State, nonetheless, I have to 6 agree that in this instance it appears as though 7 DEC's regulation is reasonable, and I, for one, 8 am very concerned about the future of the 9 commercial fisheries. 10 As I said, I'm new to this 11 industry, but I hear one of my colleagues 12 suggesting that a major portion of his district 13 and its financial livelihood may be adversely 14 affected if Senator Johnson's bill takes 15 effect. So under those circumstances, although 16 I haven't had the pleasure of tasting striped 17 bass, in this case I will join my colleague 18 Senator LaValle and vote against this measure. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Johnson, do you want to sum up? 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, I would 22 like to say, Mr. President, that with 357 23 fishermen and with the amount of fish they took 3556 1 on average, it's less than $1500 a person, with 2 the new quota which is prescribed this year 3 because of overfishing last year. In addition 4 you might want to know the way they have 5 continued overfishing. These commercial 6 fishermen get paid by the pound. So they might 7 catch so many fish of 28, 29, 34, 36-inch, 8 whatever, and in order that they have a limited 9 number of tags, they would throw away the fish 10 which were the shortest and keep the largest 11 ones. So they succeeded in overfishing by 12 essentially throwing away very valuable fish; 13 that they could be sold or they could be caught 14 by recreational fishermen, but because they 15 wanted to maximize their income, they threw away 16 the smaller ones of limited range and kept the 17 larger ones, just wasting the resource. 18 I might say that their gear 19 restrictions allow for a lot of waste. The 20 commercial by-catch wasted was 57,000 pounds in 21 -- let me see. No, 57,000 pounds. Gill netting 22 was 21,000 pounds. And during the closed 23 season, they had another by-catch mortality of 3557 1 37,000 pounds. And that is where the argument 2 was made in Nick Harris' column that even though 3 the quota for commercial fish was much less than 4 could be caught by recreational fishermen, the 5 fact is that their gear killed so many more fish 6 that were never commercially used or exploited 7 but just simply killed because of their 8 harvesting practices. 9 In addition, there was continued 10 reports of fraud in the tagging system. When we 11 did the bill in 1984, there were 30 commercial 12 fishermen. Now there are 357. Why is that? 13 Because their tags were really -- many people, 14 before they were formally commercial fishermen 15 and got tagged, sold or gave these tags to 16 friends who then exploited that fishery. So we 17 didn't protect the 30 families or the 30 18 people. We protected a lot of entrepreneurs who 19 got in there and saw a fast way to make a dollar 20 resulting in overharvesting of these fish. 21 I think it's demonstrated fairly 22 clearly that the DEC cannot manage this fishery 23 not only because of what I just said but because 3558 1 of the simple fact that when the Young of the 2 Year Index, which has been a traditional method 3 of measuring recruitment didn't suit the 4 purposes of the commercial fishermen in Maryland 5 and Virginia and New York, they ended up using 6 something else called "adaptive management" 7 which again has been proven to be a failure. 8 There is not going to be any 9 particular impact in general on the commercial 10 fishermen certainly not of any great magnitude 11 to their livelihood, but it would be a bad 12 impact -- if we continue this type of political 13 management of the fishery, it will be a bad 14 impact on the fishery. 15 And you might be interested to 16 know that though the DEC opposes this bill this 17 year, in 1983 they opposed the 24-inch limit, 18 going from 16 to 24; but yet, in 1984, when the 19 light finally came on and they realized what 20 they have had been doing, permitting this 21 continued fishing to go on, then they came out 22 with a memo in support the following year. I 23 suggest it will be the same thing this year when 3559 1 they realize that this management plan, which 2 has been demonstrated not to work in the past 3 year, will be demonstrated again if they 4 continue to have this theory, not to work and 5 they will have to support a measure like this to 6 eliminate the commercial exploitation and 7 guarantee the survival of the fishery. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Will Senator 11 Johnson yield to a question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Johnson, will you yield to Senator Gold? 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, first, 16 just a comment. If you say that the passage of 17 this bill will not have a great financial impact 18 on the fishermen, then I gather that they can't 19 be taking that much. So I don't know what that 20 fuss is all about. 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: They don't take 22 much, Senator, but they kill many. That was the 23 argument that I'm making. 3560 1 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. Can 2 you explain it to me, please? It doesn't have to 3 be a long, drawn-out thing, but I missed that 4 point. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. If you 6 like, I will just quote from here because it's a 7 convenient way - 8 SENATOR GOLD: No, just very 9 briefly, in 30 seconds. You are saying that 10 they are not taking the fish, but they're 11 killing them. That's what I'm trying to 12 understand. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's right. 14 It's the question of how many do 15 you keep and catch. Recreational anglers caught 16 755,000 fish and kept 42,000. The rest they 17 returned to the water. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Can I ask you a 19 question, Senator? 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 21 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 22 Senator, I am very concerned about numbers. I 23 was away a week end ago, and I was on a little 3561 1 tour boat, and somebody said that there are only 2 1300 Manatees, for example, left in the world. 3 And I said to myself, "How do you go about 4 counting them?" 5 You are now telling me that there 6 were 750,000 fish caught, 42,000 kept. I just 7 don't know how that numbering is done. When a 8 person goes out with their son or daughter on a 9 Saturday or Sunday morning and goes fishing and 10 they bring back the striped bass, is there a 11 phone number that they call to say how many fish 12 they caught and how many they are keeping? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, you 14 would be interested to know, perhaps, that the 15 National Marine Fishery Service spends a lot of 16 money on surveys. All the figures are here. 17 The amount of fish caught each year by each 18 method, autotroll, pound net, gill, handlines, 19 et cetera. From 1939 to 1977 happens to be on 20 this chart; and further updating your 21 statistical services are constantly taking -- in 22 fact, here is the annual report of the DEC to 23 the New York - 3562 1 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: -- to the 3 ASMFC, and that report is here as well - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Senator. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: -- on the most 6 recent season. So the figures are available. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Right. 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: And the 9 situation, though there are very few commercial 10 fishermen, they've actually caught or killed as 11 opposed to selling, as many as the recreational 12 fishermen. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Mr. 14 President, may I speak on the bill? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Gold on the bill. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 18 Minority Leader, my colleagues, I love math. I 19 love numbers and if always fascinates me about 20 what people do with statistics. I've been doing 21 some gun control legislation and I've read 22 figures, and I'm just trying to figure out how 23 many times people use guns to protect 3563 1 themselves. Somebody said Oh-oh, there's a 2 court that said over 600,000 times a year people 3 are drawing their guns. When I did the study, I 4 found out that the guy that did it, how he came 5 out with that number, God only knows. He did 6 that number based on New York City figures. I 7 mean this guy is on another planet. 8 Now, I don't know how you figure 9 out how many fish are caught by sport fishermen 10 who go out on a boat. They catch fish; they go 11 home. They give some to the neighbors, they 12 cook it and whatever and somebody decides at the 13 end of the year that there was so many fish, 14 41,000 fish got caught out of 750,000 fish. 15 Now, it's ludicrous. I am 16 somebody who is concerned about conservation. I 17 think it's disgusting that there are creatures 18 that have become endangered because of man, and 19 I am in total agreement with -- with the -- and 20 I have great empathy for those guys' arguments 21 but they got to be based on something. They 22 really have to be based on something. 23 Now, it's no secret in this house 3564 1 that I am not enamored of the Department of 2 Environmental Conservation. I think sometimes 3 they serve us memos with no back-up, which is 4 ridiculous. I think that there are times, as I 5 pointed out, Senator Johnson, that their 6 enforcement seems absurd. But you don't throw 7 out the baby with the wash water -- bath water, 8 and you don't just throw away the Department. 9 This department is regulating an 10 industry, and, in all fairness, I listened to 11 Senator LaValle, and I think that you have to 12 come to this floor with some burden of proof 13 that -- this isn't a trial, Senator Johnson. I 14 concede that, but does the Department that seems 15 to think it's doing its job, where you claim 16 that it's going to do nothing to affect 17 adversely the fishermen and, in my opinion, that 18 says to me that they catch a lot of fish. If 19 they're not catching a lot of fish, what do we 20 have to make a big stink over them for? And then 21 the answer is that if they're catching a lot of 22 fish and they're endangering a species then your 23 statement is not correct, that it can't have an 3565 1 impact on the industry because it will. 2 So I think that there's a huge 3 gap here in terms of information, and credible 4 information. Senator Johnson, you are always 5 credible to me, but you are, after all, reading 6 other people's information so not meant to be 7 personal, so I -- the Department involved 8 strongly opposes this legislation, and while I 9 am the first one to ignore them when they don't 10 back it up, when they have backed it up with a 11 memo, and based upon some of the comments I've 12 heard on this side of the aisle, when the time 13 comes we will ask for a slow roll call on the 14 legislation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 16 the last section. 17 Senator -- I'm sorry. Senator 18 LaValle. 19 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, if I may, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 LaValle on the bill. 23 SENATOR LAVALLE: A few closing 3566 1 remarks. Once again, facts and figures do not 2 bear out a position why this bill should be on 3 the floor and why it deserves an affirmative 4 vote. 5 Senator Johnson, this bill means 6 a lot of money to the east end of Long Island 7 and to people who have made investment in 8 fishing. This could mean anywhere between 9 three-quarters of a million to a million dollars 10 for eastern -- eastern Long Island. 11 I simply say, and you have laid 12 out in other debates the -- why we should comply 13 with management plans for the Atlantic Coast 14 Fisheries Commission, and I -- and we are in 15 compliance. Now, if the signs show that the 16 fish are in jeopardy, no one should be 17 harvesting -- harvesting the fish, but to allow 18 one group who clearly are catching 80 percent of 19 the fish, I mean I just don't understand how you 20 can say, well, we're just going to knock out the 21 20 percent. 22 So I just ask if there is a 23 problem, and I know we all have a problem with 3567 1 DEC, feel that the regulation, and so forth, 2 should not be in the hands of the Department, it 3 should be done statutorily and compromises 4 should be worked out. I think people should sit 5 down and work those out, but to eliminate a 6 group of people from the resource, I think, is 7 very, very difficult. 8 You know, when this debate began 9 back in Suffolk County, there were meetings and 10 hearings, and so forth. I asked someone what 11 was a game fish because I didn't know what the 12 category meant, and it's my understanding, and I 13 could be wrong, but it would be put with salt 14 water gamefish such as the white/blue marlin, 15 the sailfish and the long-bill sailfish, so we 16 would be putting the striped bass in that 17 category, gamefish, and I just think, again, it 18 defies logic to put the striped bass in with 19 those kinds of fish that clearly most people 20 would say would be identifiable as gamefish. 21 So, once again, I ask for your 22 support in voting against this legislation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 3568 1 the last section. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Slow 4 roll call. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 8 the roll slowly. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 10 excused. 11 Senator Bruno. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 14 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: No. 16 Senator Cook. 17 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 Senator DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Dollinger. 3569 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 3 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Gonzalez. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Goodman. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Halperin. 17 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 19 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Hoffmann. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Holland. 3570 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 4 may I explain my vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Johnson to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: We have had 8 some discussion of economic impact on some 9 people. I didn't put it that way. I really put 10 it on the fact that the political manipulation 11 of the ASMFC by New York's commissioner, not 12 myself as one of them, but the commissioner 13 representative of DEC and those representing the 14 states of Virginia and Maryland, have caused 15 them to cease to use the scientific method which 16 has been revered for the 60 years and come up 17 with an entirely new method of management and 18 what they call that is "adaptive management". 19 That means political management. 20 That means political mismanagement, so instead 21 of using the young of the year Index which show 22 a faltering rate of reproduction, they decided 23 to use other -- other indexes, for example, the 3571 1 previous year's fishing effort and how that 2 worked out. Some part of the young of the year 3 index, also spawning stock, biomass, and they've 4 been creative in this respect, disregarding the 5 impact on the -- on the fishery for political 6 purposes. 7 It has been said as well that the 8 -- that there's been no -- no compensation to 9 the commercial fishermen for the loss of the 10 striped bass fishery which took place quite a 11 few years ago. The simple fact is, in 1986, the 12 Governor through the DEC has given striped bass 13 -- given a striped bass emergency assistance 14 program. They've given over a million dollars 15 in loans to those people during that time to get 16 out of the striped bass fishery and to get into 17 other commercial fishery activities. So the 18 commercial fishermen who were there at the time 19 the 1984 bill was passed did not suffer any 20 great loss, in fact were encouraged to do other 21 types of fishing because we didn't know when and 22 if this would ever -- this other fishery would 23 ever come back again. 3572 1 In addition to that, there have 2 been contracts given out -- contracts given out 3 for them to do haul seining for research 4 purposes on behalf of the DEC. 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 LaValle, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR LAVALLE: Do Senators 9 still have two minutes to explain their vote or 10 have we extended that? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: I think 12 Senator Johnson was just about to finish up. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Oh, yes. I was 14 defining economic value, so while there might be 15 a few hundred thousand dollars value to 16 commercial fishermen there's 1.5 billion, 1.6 17 million people involved in the recreation 18 fishing. Certainly the spawning stock, the fish 19 in the water belong to all of us, not just to a 20 few commercial fishermen. 21 I vote aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 Johnson in the affirmative. Senator Johnson in 3573 1 the affirmative. Continue the roll. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 3 SENATOR JONES: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 7 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 11 SENATOR LAVALLE: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 16 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Marchi. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Marino. Aye. 3574 1 Senator Markowitz. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Masiello. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Mega. 6 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Nolan. 12 SENATOR NOLAN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Nozzolio. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 17 Montgomery is here now. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Ohrenstein. 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3575 1 Oppenheimer. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 6 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Santiago. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator Sears. 18 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer. 22 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 3576 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 3 SENATOR SMITH: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 7 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Stachowski. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Stafford. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Stavisky. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 18 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 3577 1 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon 3 excused. 4 Senator Wright. 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 7 Absentees. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Gonzalez. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Hoffmann. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 15 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Markowitz. 20 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Masiello. 23 (There was no response. ) 3578 1 Senator Montgomery. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Santiago. 7 (There was to response. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 9 Results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41, nays 11 13. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 bill is passed. 14 Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 is there any housekeeping to be done? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 18 Negative, Senator. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 there being no further business, I move that we 21 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:30 a.m. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senate 23 is adjourned until tomorrow at 11:30 a.m. 3579 1 (Whereupon at 5:55 p.m., the 2 Senate adjourned. ) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23