Tuesday, May 18, 1993

3725 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 18, 1993 11 3:43 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 3726 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 3 will come to order. Senators will please find 4 their seats. 5 Will you please rise with me for 6 the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 9 Today, in the absence of visiting 10 clergy, we will bow our heads for a moment of 11 silent prayer. 12 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 13 silence. ) 14 Secretary will begin by reading 15 the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, May 17. The Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment, Senator Farley in the chair upon 19 designation of the Temporary President. The 20 Journal of Friday, May 14, was read and 21 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 23 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 3727 1 read. 2 The order of business: 3 Presentation of petitions. 4 Messages from the Assembly. 5 Messages from the Governor. 6 Reports of standing committees. 7 We have a report from a standing 8 committee. Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 10 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 11 following nomination: 12 Daniel B. Tauriello, of Buffalo, 13 member of the State Board of Parole. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Volker. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 17 I rise to put forth the name of Dan Tauriello. 18 You know, I do it I guess with 19 mixed feelings. For those of you that are 20 wondering -- probably most of you realize this 21 is Joe Tauriello's brother, who served with us 22 in Senate for so many years -- with the 23 distinction, as Senator Padavan makes it very 3728 1 clear. 2 I date back a lot longer with Dan 3 Tauriello, because we go back a long time in our 4 law enforcement days. Dan, frankly, has been a 5 guy who has been primarily in charge for many 6 years of protecting dignitaries. I suppose 7 that's probably one of the ways that the 8 Governor probably would notice Danny, because he 9 is the guy that has always been protecting him 10 and protecting so many of the people in the 11 Buffalo area when they come in from outside. 12 But other than that, I got to say 13 this, that he has not only been a fine police 14 officer, he is also a fine gentleman; and I mean 15 that very sincerely; and I haven't the slightest 16 doubt that he will make an excellent member of 17 the Parole Board. Certainly, nobody knows the 18 streets any better than Dan and knows the 19 problems of the streets and the individuals that 20 unfortunately clash with the law. 21 I would like to highly recommend 22 him and say it's probably one of the best 23 appointments to the Parole Board that the 3729 1 Governor has ever made. And I say once again 2 that I'm very proud to stand here and say not 3 only that he deserves to be on the Parole Board 4 but also that he is a good friend, and that I 5 wish him the best of luck. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Masiello. 8 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you very 9 much, and certainly I rise, too, to second the 10 nomination of my great friend, Dan Tauriello, to 11 the Parole Board. 12 The Tauriellos and the Masiellos 13 are like family back in Buffalo, Western New 14 York. As a matter of fact, we all come from the 15 same little province in Italy. 16 But aside from that, all of you 17 know that I took Dan's brother's place, Joe 18 Tauriello, here in the Senate; and those are big 19 shoes to fill and I'm still working hard trying 20 to fill those shoes. And you make sure you tell 21 Joe I'm doing that. 22 But certainly -- Dale Volker 23 alluded to that -- Dan Tauriello comes to this 3730 1 chamber with a wonderful reputation in the city 2 of Buffalo and in Western New York. He is 3 highly respected and regarded by law enforcement 4 people throughout the community, but also 5 civicly, he has offered much and given much to 6 the Buffalo community especially the west side 7 of Buffalo; and his intelligence, his expertise, 8 his knowledge, will go a long way to making him 9 a superb member of the Parole Board, and I'm 10 thrilled that Governor Cuomo has found it in his 11 heart, especially in his mind, to appoint you to 12 this position. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 17 yield to a question? 18 SENATOR MASIELLO: Absolutely, 19 especially from you, Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. Yes, I 21 got confused for a minute. In other words -- I 22 was prepared to debate against this violently. 23 This is not Joseph Tauriello. This is the 3731 1 brother, is that what you're saying? 2 SENATOR MASIELLO: This is Dan 3 Tauriello. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Oh! Oh, that 5 one's all right. 6 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you very 7 much. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 9 resolution. On the nomination, rather. On the 10 nomination, all in favor say aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Those opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 The ayes have it. 15 We're fortunate to have Dan 16 Tauriello right with us in the gallery. And on 17 behalf of the state of New York state Senate, 18 let me congratulate you on this appointment and 19 say how much we not only appreciate you but the 20 Tauriello family and your brother. Best wishes 21 and good luck. 22 (Applause) 23 Senator Present, we also have 3732 1 some other nominees. Shall we do them? 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Do the nominees. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 4 you. Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 6 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 7 following nominations: 8 Member of the State Council on 9 Home Care Services, Roslyn Bilford of Syracuse; 10 Joan E. Caserta of White Plains; Philip G. 11 DiSorbo of Scotia; Alexine L. Janiszewski of 12 Williamsville; and Sally J. Leiter of 13 Pittsford. 14 Member of the Battery Park City 15 Authority, Martin S. Begun of New York City. 16 Member of the Buffalo and Fort 17 Erie Public Bridge Authority, Rita J. Crangle of 18 Buffalo. 19 Member of the Board of Oswego 20 Authority, Christopher C. Dain of Oswego. 21 Member of the Advisory Council to 22 the Commission on Quality of Care for the 23 Mentally Disabled, Judy Eisman of Great Neck. 3733 1 Member of the Mental Health 2 Services Council, Phyllis Harrison-Ross, M.D., 3 of New York City. 4 Member of the Board of Directors 5 of the Great Lakes Protection Fund, Ronald J. 6 Scrudato, Ph.D., of Oswego. 7 Member of the Life Care Community 8 Council, Adele Shiman Trobe of Somers. 9 Member of the Board of Visitors 10 of the St. Lawrence Psychiatric Center, Orman 11 Bomyea of Malone. 12 Member of the Board of Visitors 13 of the Mid-Hudson Psychiatric Center, Thomas 14 Colligan of Middletown. 15 Member of Board of Visitors of 16 the Oswald D. Heck Developmental Disabilities 17 Services Office, Basil Hick of Castleton. 18 Member of the Board of Visitors 19 of the Middletown Psychiatric Center, Robert R. 20 Hoag of Middletown. 21 Member of the Board of Visitors 22 of the Rome Developmental Disabilities Services 23 Office, Doris Latimer of Rome. 3734 1 Member of the Board of Visitors 2 of the Rome Developmental Disabilities Services 3 Office, Arthur A. Wood of Kent. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 5 nominees. All those in favor, say aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Those opposed, nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The ayes have it. The nominees 10 are confirmed. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 13 move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar with 14 the exception of Resolution 1413. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 resolutions with the exception. All in favor, 17 say aye. 18 ((Response of "Aye.") 19 Those opposed nay. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 The Resolution Calendar is 22 adopted. 23 Senator Present. 3735 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 2 Will you recognize Senator Holland. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 6 On Resolution 1390, it's a long-term care 7 resolution asking that the federal government 8 assist the state in the cost of this. 9 Mr. President, as you know, our 10 state is being strangled by a program that 11 although well-intentioned has become an 12 albatross around the neck of New York State 13 taxpayers. 14 Long-term care is the fastest 15 growing component of Medicaid. It is already 16 the most expensive part of the program, and its 17 rapid growth shows no sign of abatement. We 18 have tried to address the problem of long-term 19 care at the state level by instituting reforms 20 such as nursing home without walls program, the 21 long-term care insurance experiment through the 22 Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, but it is 23 obvious that this is a national problem and 3736 1 should be treated as such. 2 Before us we have a call. It is 3 a call which Washington needs to heed. It is a 4 call for responsibility. It is a call for 5 vision. But most of all, it is a call for 6 action, and I am calling on all of you here 7 today, my fellow legislators, to let your voice 8 be heard in our nation's capital and support 9 this resolution that will affect not only the 10 elderly but those in the work force as well as 11 our children. 12 Thank you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 14 you, Senator Holland. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 17 recognize Senator DeFrancisco, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 DeFrancisco. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I request 21 that Senate Resolution Number 1413 be read in 22 its entirety. Mr. Fisher, who is being honored, 23 is present with us today. 3737 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Secretary will read the resolution. 3 I'm going to ask that the Senate 4 please be quiet for the reading of this 5 resolution. We have the honoree here in the 6 chamber. 7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 8 Resolution Number 1413, by Senator DeFrancisco, 9 honoring Marine Victor T. Fisher upon his 10 selection as the 1992 Marine of the Year by the 11 National Marine Corps League. 12 WHEREAS, it is incumbent upon the 13 people of the state of New York to recognize 14 those individuals within our midst who have made 15 significant contributions to the quality of life 16 of those who reside within its borders. 17 Marine Victor T. Fisher has 18 proven to be an invaluable asset not only to the 19 Marine Corps League, where he commenced service 20 in 1963, but as an active and involved member of 21 the community as a whole. 22 In recognition of his unique 23 dedication to his career, his community, and his 3738 1 country, he has been singled out as the 1992 2 Marine of the Year by the National Marine Corps 3 League. 4 Throughout his career, Marine 5 Fisher has served with honor and integrity with 6 the Greater Syracuse Detachment and held many 7 offices on the departmental and national levels, 8 including the Marine Corps League's National 9 Sergeant at Arms, the Department of New York 10 Military Order of the Purple Heart's Sergeant at 11 Arms, the Marine Corps League Department of New 12 York State's Sergeant at Arms, and the Sergeant 13 at Arms of the Memorial Association of the city 14 of Syracuse and Onondaga County. 15 Marine Fisher initiated the Star 16 Spangled Banner project which educates the 17 public on proper care and display procedures for 18 our nation's flag and diligently advises 19 presidents, governors, police chiefs and 20 government officials when he cites instances of 21 improper care and display. 22 Despite the demands of his 23 professional position, he always finds time to 3739 1 lend a hand with the Marine Corps Reserves 2 annual Toys for Tots Campaign, the state 3 children's hospital doll collecting drive and 4 the American Cancer Society's annual fund 5 raiser. 6 Marine Fisher has assisted the 7 St. Lawrence Detachment and the St. Lawrence 8 Seaway Festival Committee for the past eight 9 years as the area hosts the Marine Corps Drum 10 and Bugle Corps for a series of special concerts 11 and parade performances that the community looks 12 forward to. 13 Marine Fisher received the Chapel 14 of Four Chaplains Humanitarian Award in 1991 for 15 a lifetime of outstanding humanitarian service 16 profoundly affecting the quality of life in our 17 community and nation. 18 He also was awarded the Chapel of 19 Four Chaplains Bronze Medallion in 1992 for 20 exemplary individual commitment to religious, 21 cultural and racial understanding and to the 22 cause of world service and world peace. 23 Marine fisher has exhibited 3740 1 uncommon consideration and respect for his 2 fellow man and possesses qualities that 3 distinguish him as an exceptional contributor to 4 his community, state and nation. 5 Now, therefore, be it resolved, 6 that this legislative body pause in its 7 deliberations and honor Marine Victor T. Fisher 8 upon the occasion of his selection as 1992 9 Marine of the Year by the National Marine Corps 10 League; and be it further 11 Resolved, that a copy of this 12 resolution be transmitted to Victor T. Fisher in 13 recognition of this notable and extraordinary 14 accomplishment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 DeFrancisco. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr. 18 President. I am truly honored that this body 19 would take its valuable time to honor Victor 20 Fisher. I have known Victor for about fifteen 21 years, and he and his wife, June, are here 22 today. 23 He was not honored last year 3741 1 because the award took place after session was 2 over, and I wasn't here. But I think anyone who 3 was here in my position would have honored Vic 4 Fisher. 5 You know, we debate bills all the 6 time about how we should treat everybody the 7 same way and how we should not discriminate 8 against people, how we should not deal with 9 people differently no matter what their status 10 or preferences might be. 11 If there were more people in this 12 world like Victor Fisher, we could save an awful 13 lot of time because this man is truly an 14 individual of decency and integrity. 15 He served our country as well as 16 anybody could possibly be expected to serve it, 17 and I'm very, very pleased that we stopped in 18 our deliberations to honor him today, and I 19 thank all of you for taking the time to do so, 20 and I would hope that this resolution passes 21 unanimously. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Holland. 3742 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 2 as a former Marine and a member of the Marine 3 Corps League from Rockland County, I certainly 4 want to join with my colleagues here to honor 5 the 1992 Marine Corps League Member of the Year, 6 Victor Fisher, and say to him that I'm sure Jack 7 Nash and Ernie Pomeroy from my detachment join 8 me and us in honoring him. 9 Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 11 you. On the resolution. All those in favor, 12 aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.".) 14 Those opposed, nay. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 The resolution is unanimously 17 carried. 18 Mr. Fisher - 19 I'm sorry, Senator Stavisky. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 21 President. On resolution 1318, which has 22 already passed, some members have expressed a 23 desire to go on as co-sponsors of the 3743 1 resolution. May we open up the sponsorship at 2 the desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Stavisky, just -- we're in the middle of passing 5 a resolution here. 6 The resolution is passed. 7 Mr. Fisher, we're honored to have 8 you in our chamber. Congratulations on this 9 outstanding award. I know there's a number of 10 Marines that serve in this Senate, and each and 11 every one of them are very proud of you. 12 Congratulations. 13 (Applause) 14 Senator Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 16 President. I'm sorry that I interrupted the 17 introduction. 18 On Calendar Resolution Number 19 1318, would you please open that for multiple 20 sponsorship of any members of the chamber. I 21 know Senator Levy and others wish to be added 22 for sponsorship. Please open it up at the desk. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 3744 1 your resolution? 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: In honor of 3 Jim Valvano. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, 5 yes. I thought we opened that up the other day, 6 but let's open up 1318 to anybody who wishes to 7 be a sponsor. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's do a 10 little housekeeping right now. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 12 Okay, a little housekeeping. The housekeepers, 13 we'll start with Senator Volker. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 15 On page 44, I offer the following amendments to 16 Calendar Number 859, Senate Print Number 3401, 17 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 18 Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 20 objection, the bill will retain its place. 21 Hold on, he's got another one. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 23 On behalf of Senator Sears, we would like to 3745 1 star Senate 861. Senate 861. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor. 4 Are you finished, Senator Volker? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Okay. 7 Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 9 On page 50, I offer the following amendments to 10 Calendar Number 644, Senate 4560, and ask that 11 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading 12 Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection, the bill will retain its place. 15 Senator Cook. 16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. On 17 behalf of Senator Velella, who at the moment is 18 otherwise disposed, on page 27, I offer the 19 following amendments to Calendar 712, Senate 20 Print 2589, and ask that said bill retain its 21 place on Third Reading Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 amendments will be received, and the bill will 3746 1 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 4 On behalf of Senator levy, ask that a sponsor 5 star be placed on Calendar 766, Senate 5434; 6 Calendar 768, Senate 5557; Calendar 849, Senate 7 184, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 9 objection. 10 Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. I would like to place a sponsor star 13 on several of my bills that are on the 14 calendar. Calendar Number 805. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 805 is 16 starred. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: 811. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 811 is 19 starred. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: 827. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 827 is 22 starred. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: 893. 3747 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 893 is 2 starred. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: And 894. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 894 is 5 starred. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: And I thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 9 a lot of stars. 10 Senator Stavisky. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 12 President. Some minor record clearing. If I 13 had been in the chamber on Calendar 662, Bill 14 4479 I would have been recorded in the negative. 15 If I had been in the chamber at 16 the time that calendar 660, Bill 3205, had been 17 voted on, I would have been voted in the 18 negative; and similarly Calendar 432, Bill 2549. 19 I wish the record to reflect 20 that. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 record will so show. 23 Senator Sheffer. 3748 1 SENATOR SHEFFER: Mr. President. 2 I would like to place a sponsor star on Calendar 3 753, Print Number 3321, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 753 is 5 started at the request of the sponsor. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. I 8 would like to call an immediate meeting of the 9 Rules committee in Room 332. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 11 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 12 Committee in Room 332. 13 We have some substitutions. All 14 right to do those? 15 Secretary will read the 16 substitutions. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 11 of 18 today's Calendar, Senator Farley moves to 19 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 20 Bill Number 2853 and substitute it for the 21 identical Third Reading 173. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Substitution ordered. 3749 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 2 Senator Spano moves to discharge the Committee 3 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6436 and 4 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 5 476. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Substitution ordered. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 21, 9 Senator Spano moves to discharge the Committee 10 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 1335A and 11 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 12 598. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Substitution ordered. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 41, 16 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee 17 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6557 and 18 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 19 835. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 27, 23 Senator Velella moves to discharge the Committee 3750 1 on Insurance from Assembly Bill Number 672 and 2 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 3 6713. The Senate bill is high; the Assembly 4 bill is not. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Substitution is ordered. 7 Senator Kuhl, we're ready for the 8 calendar. What is your pleasure? 9 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Farley. 10 Senator Espada wanted to address the floor. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Espada. 13 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 15 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 660. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Is that 17 today's calendar? 18 SENATOR ESPADA: Yesterday. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Well, 20 actually, you can't do that. What you will have 21 to do, Senator Espada, is say that if you were 22 here that you would have voted in the negative. 23 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you very 3751 1 much, Mr. President. If I had been here 2 yesterday, I would have voted nay on Calendar 3 Number 660. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 record will so show. 6 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you very 7 much. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Kuhl, I guess it's you. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 11 May we begin with the non-controversial 12 calendar, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Non-controversial. Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 15, 16 Calendar Number 339, by Senator Sears, Senate 17 Bill Number 3452B, Agriculture and Markets Law, 18 in relation to manufacturer's information. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3752 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 4 one, senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 8 Daly. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold on 10 just a second. 11 Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Which 13 calendar was thaqt, 330? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 15 was 339. 16 Results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46, nays 2, 18 Senators Daly and Kuhl recorded in the 19 negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 357, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 3753 1 3287, legalize, validate, ratify and confirm the 2 acts of a town board, town supervisor, town 3 collecting officer. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lead 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 458, by member of the Assembly Lentol, Assembly 16 Bill Number 6457, Civil Practice Law and Rules, 17 in relation to the use of depositions. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Read the last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 3754 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 465, by Senator Hannon. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for 8 the day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 10 aside for the day. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 480, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 937, 13 Civil Service Law, in relation to the duration 14 of eligible lists. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 610, by member of the Assembly wine /STAOEPB. 20 SENATOR TRUNZO: Lay it aside for 21 the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside for the day. 3755 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 613, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 4106. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 654, by Senator Volker. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 9 Senator Montgomery, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 669, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 4013, 14 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and 15 the Correction Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 3756 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 671, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 5 4166, an act to amend the Penal Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 687, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 18 3171A, Private Housing Finance Law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 701, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1023, 3757 1 to allow David Young retroactive membership in 2 the local employee retirement system. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 703, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3430, 8 Retirement and Social Security Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 10 is a home rule message here at the desk. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 706, by Senator Spano. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for 23 the day, please. 3758 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside for the day. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 714, by member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly 5 Bill Number 505, Insurance Law, requiring the 6 disclosure and credit life insurance policies. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 715, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 19 4998. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 716, by 3759 1 Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 4999, an act 2 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 3 reduction in homeowners insurance rates. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 730, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3408, 16 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to the 17 definition of the term food salvager. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 3760 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 733, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 7 3934, General Business Law, in relation to 8 limitations to certain contracts. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 739, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 4045. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for 15 the day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 17 aside for the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 741, by 19 Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 4519, 20 Executive Law, requiring certain notices. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside. 3761 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 742, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 3 4564, establish the New York State Waste 4 Management Institute. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 743, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 17 4905, Executive Law and the State Finance Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 19 is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3762 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 754, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 3535, relocate the Spring Valley Toll Plaza of 9 the New York State Thruway. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 757, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 3886A, 22 directing the Commissioner of Transportation to 23 develop test pilot programs. 3763 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 9 one, senator Libous recorded in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 15 on Calendar 754. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 754, 17 Senator Leichter will be in the negative. 18 Continue, Mr. Secretary. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 758, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 3887, 21 New York City charter and the Public Authorities 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3764 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 772, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 2028, 12 an act to amend the Labor Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3765 1 783, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 1334A, 2 Family Court Act, in relation to the definition 3 of person in need of supervision. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 784, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 1555, 16 Criminal Procedure Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3766 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 786, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4686, 6 Social Services Law, in relation to the 7 discharge of children from foster care. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 787, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4687, 20 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3767 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 788, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4867, 10 Social Services Law, in relation to notice of 11 surrender proceedings. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 789, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4868, 17 Family Court Act, in relation to the placement 18 of children. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3768 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 790, by Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 791, by Senator Saland. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 796, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 18 3367A, Environmental Conservation Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3769 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 802, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 8 1297, Education Law, in relation to school lunch 9 periods. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 812, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 22 4883, Education Law, in relation to computation 23 of approved operating expense. 3770 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 2 is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 816, by Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 817, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 19 1648, an act to amend the Correction Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 3771 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 1, 5 Senator Waldon recorded in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 9 Smith recorded in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Galiber also in the negative. 12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 13 Calendar Number 817, Senators Galiber, Pataki, 14 Smith and Waldon recorded in the negative. Ayes 15 46, nays 4. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 819, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2288, 20 an act to amend the Correction Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3772 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 1, 6 Senator Espada recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 821, by 10 Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 3799, an act 11 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to a 12 crime victims or crime victims representatives. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3773 1 822, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 2 1832D, an act to amend the Real Property Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 4 is a home rule message here at the desk. 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 823, by 15 Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2410, proposing 16 amendment to the Constitution. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 19 that bill aside. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3774 1 President. Calendar 819, could we please 2 reconsider the vote by which that bill passed. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll on reconsideration of Senator Cook's 5 bill, 819. 6 (The Secretary called the roll on 7 reconsideration. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is before the house. 11 Lay it aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 831, by member of the Assembly Gottfried, 14 Assembly Bill Number 2200, Social Services Law, 15 in relation to payment of interest by providers 16 of medical assistance. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 833, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 22 3656, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 23 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside. 3775 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 835, by member of the Assembly Singer, 5 substituted earlier today, Assembly Bill Number 6 6557, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 837, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 787, an 19 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 3776 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Ayes 8 50, nays 1, Senator Johnson recorded in the 9 negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 839, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2409, 14 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Did you 17 say lay it aside? 18 Lay it aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 840, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 3471, 21 an act to amend the Public Health Law and the 22 Executive Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3777 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 841, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 12 3716, an act to amend the Military Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just rise 21 to ask to abstain on this ballot. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 23 objection, Senator Dollinger will abstain. 3778 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 844, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 4354, 6 an act to amend the Education Law. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 845, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 12 4476, Executive Law, in relation to veterans 13 credits. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 3779 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 847, by Senator DeFrancisco. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 850, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 953, 8 an act to amend the Penal Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 854, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 21 1624, an act to amend the Penal Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 3780 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. Nays 7 2. Senators Gold and Leichter -- and Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 10 on. Negatives raise your hands. 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 854 are Senators 13 Espada, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery and Smith. 14 Ayes 46, nays 5. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 866, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5001, 19 Labor Law, in relation to the payment of manual 20 workers. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3781 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 Senator Present, that's the first 9 time through. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 11 Let's go through the controversial calendar. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 13 Controversial. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 18, 15 Calendar Number 480, by Senator Lack, Senate 16 Bill Number 937, Civil Service Law, in relation 17 to the duration of eligible lists. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Explanation has been asked for. Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. This bill would amend Civil Service 23 Law Section 56 to extend during the life of the 3782 1 Eligibility List 6643 for Fire Marshal, the Fire 2 Department in the city of New York, until the 3 number of positions that have been lost to the 4 department are filled by candidates on such 5 lists or for an additional two years from the 6 expiration date that was fixed by such list, 7 whichever date would occur first. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator Lack 12 yield to a question? 13 SENATOR LACK: Sure. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 15 you yield to Senator Gold? 16 SENATOR LACK: Of course. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, are you 18 aware of the memorandum filed by the City in 19 opposition? 20 SENATOR LACK: Yes, Senator, I 21 realize it's a little bit of an anomalous 22 situation here. There's a memorandum filed by 23 the Mayor of the city of New York in 3783 1 opposition. There is also a home rule message 2 at the desk in which the City Council of the 3 city of New York passed a home rule in support 4 of the bill. 5 SENATOR GOLD: I appreciate your 6 helping me clarify that. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 613, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 4106, 19 Administrative Procedure Act. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Explanation has been asked for. Senator Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 3784 1 President. The bill amends the Administrative 2 Procedures Act and addresses two issues. One is 3 to restrict state agencies from exceeding the 4 rulemaking process and increasing standards 5 beyond the established standards of the federal 6 government, and the second purpose is to require 7 state agencies to accept compliance at the state 8 level if they achieve compliance with the 9 federal standards. The intent is to restrict 10 the rulemaking authority of agencies unless 11 expressly approved by the Legislature to exceed 12 the federal standards. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 14 will the gentleman yield to a question? 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 16 will yield. 17 (Senator Padavan in the chair. ) 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 Will the gentleman yield to a question? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will the Senator 21 yield? 22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I 3785 1 understand the language of the bill, but what I 2 don't understand is the following. A state 3 agency cannot, according to New York State law, 4 promulgate any rule or regulation, none, unless 5 it is specifically authorized by the New York 6 State Legislature; isn't that a fact? 7 SENATOR WRIGHT: That's correct. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to 9 another question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 11 Senator Wright yield? 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: I do, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, your bill 15 says that they shall not by rule or regulation 16 go past a certain point. Isn't it a fact, 17 Senator, that that's really up to us? They can 18 not pass rules and regulations that go anywhere 19 unless this Legislature gives them the enabling 20 legislation. Otherwise, the rule or regulation 21 itself can be stricken down as in violation of 22 law. Isn't that true? 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: In fact, what 3786 1 you find is that while the enabling legislation 2 by the very nature of enabling legislation tends 3 to be general, the regulations themselves tend 4 to be far more specific, and liberties will be 5 taken in terms of that rulemaking process that 6 may, in fact, exceed the federal standards 7 without specific state enabling legislation to 8 do that. 9 And while there is an oversight 10 process to review that rulemaking, in fact it is 11 not sufficiently tight enough that many of those 12 issues are addressed. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 14 yield to another question? 15 Senator, I don't have the exact 16 section in front of me. It may be subdivision 17 16 of Article III, something like that, in our 18 state Constitution, which basically says that we 19 can not pass any legislation that adopts in it 20 the laws of any other state or the federal 21 government unless we actually take the language 22 and put it in. That article of the Constitution 23 has been emasculated by our courts, which as 3787 1 bright as they are sometimes don't read our 2 Constitution. 3 But Senator, in effect, isn't 4 that what your bill is doing in a general way? 5 You are saying that a state agency getting the 6 rulemaking authority from the state Legislature 7 is bound, no matter what we say, to whatever 8 happens to be at the time a federal regulation. 9 Therefore, you are subjecting our rulemaking and 10 our legislation to the whim what may or may not 11 be a federal rule at the time. Isn't that in 12 effect what happens? 13 SENATOR WRIGHT: So, in effect, I 14 believe, Senator, what we're doing is by 15 enacting this legislation we're establishing the 16 state's practice of adhering with those minimum 17 federal requirements unless we as a body and the 18 other house specifically decide that we want to 19 exceed those standards, and we say so in the 20 enabling legislation. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Well, that's the 22 part I'm trying to find here, and I apologize. 23 Is there language in your bill which 3788 1 specifically says that they cannot exceed the 2 federal standard unless authorized by us to use 3 that phrase? 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: In fact we do. 5 "The state agency shall not promulgate a state 6 rule that imposes requirements which are greater 7 than those imposed by a federal law or rule 8 unless the agency is specifically authorized by 9 state law to exceed federal standards for such a 10 rule." 11 SENATOR GOLD: Fine. Senator 12 will yield to a question? How would you envision 13 a statute would read that does that? 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'm sorry. 15 SENATOR GOLD: How would you 16 envision the language of a statute that would do 17 that? 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, I would 19 envision -- first of all, we've had 20 circumstances. I think the most recent example 21 would be the air quality standards as it relates 22 to low emission vehicles, where we had an agency 23 proceeding with standards significantly in 3789 1 excess of the minimum federal requirements; and, 2 in fact, it required action by both houses of 3 the Legislature to specifically say that's not 4 our intent; that's not our purpose. Had this 5 legislation in fact been in place at that 6 particular time, we would not have had to act 7 accordingly. 8 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 9 Senator, if you yield to a question? Isn't it a 10 fact in the situation you just discussed that 11 the Legislature was able to handle that 12 situation appropriately under existing law? I 13 mean are there other -- and if I may, just to 14 give you a chance to respond. Had there been 15 other situations where we've had to do that as a 16 legislative body with any degree of regularity? 17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, there have 18 been situations. In that particular case, yes, 19 there was a remedy. However, it's not 20 necessary. I don't believe that the Legislature 21 should have to go through that process where it 22 actually restricts an administrative agency 23 that's exceeding its authority and intent of the 3790 1 statute. 2 More importantly, there are other 3 instances. An example would be standards for 4 landfill closures as they apply to local 5 governments. There are federal standards and 6 then state standards that exceed those federal 7 standards that place an additional burden on 8 those local governments that have not been 9 explicitly approved by this Legislature but have 10 been approved in a broader context of dealing 11 with the environmental concerns of landfill 12 closure. Those circumstances have sufficient 13 costs and requirements on the agency -- on the 14 local government. That's why I believe we need 15 to control it on the front end rather than the 16 Legislature reacting after the fact in 17 rescinding or recalling those actions. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 I'm going to yield to Senator Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 21 Would Senator Wright yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Will 23 the Senator yield? 3791 1 SENATOR WRIGHT: I will, Mr. 2 President. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is it 4 your view that the bureaucrats down in 5 Washington have a better idea of the needs of 6 the people of the state of New York than we do 7 here in the state? 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, sir, it is 9 not. My view is that, in fact, they are dealing 10 on the national perspective, and they establish 11 those standards that apply equally to all 50 of 12 the states, thereby providing in effect a level 13 playing field relative to New York State and its 14 ability to compete with those other 50 states. 15 It then becomes the wisdom of this legislative 16 body and our executive branch to determine 17 whether or not those standards, in fact, meet 18 New York State's needs; and if they do not, we 19 have the right and the obligation to impose 20 additional standards, and we do that 21 legislatively. This does not prevent that. It 22 simply provides for a rational process of 23 putting in place the federal standards, 3792 1 eliminating the duplication and the conflicts 2 that occur between the two. Then if we deem 3 that there are additional requirements, we have 4 the opportunity to enact same. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 6 in the first instance, is it not correct, you 7 take the idea of the regulations of the people 8 within the Beltway are more suitable and more 9 appropriate for the people of the state of New 10 York than the regulations that might be made 11 here within the state of New York? 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, Senator. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Isn't that 14 what your bill does? 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: No. In fact, 16 what it does is it accepts the federal standards 17 as they apply to all of the states as a baseline 18 for the basis of comparison; and working off 19 that federal baseline, we then determine whether 20 or not that is sufficient for the needs of New 21 York State or whether additional action is 22 required. 23 And I would anticipate that in 3793 1 many instances that, in fact, is what the 2 agencies would be doing, recommending 3 legislation to us that would address those 4 issues. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: But am I not 6 correct, Senator, based on what you just said 7 that in the first instance it's the people down 8 in Washington who know more about what we need 9 here in New York State than what we decide 10 locally? 11 SENATOR WRIGHT: No. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Because you 13 are making -- you're making that decision that's 14 made by the bureaucrats down in Washington as 15 the baseline that should apply in the state of 16 New York. Isn't that what your bill does? 17 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, that is 18 not. There are a number of occasions where 19 Washington assumes that they know best, and I 20 think we've all seen examples of that. Once 21 they do that, we then have an obligation or an 22 opportunity to respond. This gives us a basis 23 of comparison from which to respond. 3794 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator 2 -- if Senator Wright would be good enough to 3 continue to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 5 Senator yield? 6 SENATOR WRIGHT: I will. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator, 8 is it a fact, until we act -- and this 9 Legislature is not known to act quickly -- the 10 decision that is made in Washington binds us 11 here in the state of New York. We've had the 12 boys and the girls within the Beltway decide 13 what we're going to do here in New York State. 14 I wonder -- is that your position -- Washington 15 knows best? 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, I'm not 17 saying that at all. But, in fact, Washington 18 has the authority which they exercise on 19 occasion whether we concur with that authority 20 or not. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: And am I also 22 correct in understanding your bill that where 23 additional action may be desirous for the people 3795 1 of the state of New York, nothing can be done 2 until the Legislature meets and authorizes it? 3 Is that correct? 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: That's correct. 5 And I did firmly believe that's appropriate, 6 Senator, that, in fact, we have agencies that 7 are acting as legislators in exceeding standards 8 and pursuing their own agenda on many occasions; 9 and, in fact, that should be the prerogative of 10 the elected officials and the elected 11 Legislature. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 13 Wright, if you would be good enough to continue 14 to yield? Senator, isn't it a fact that when 15 Washington wishes, the national government, 16 those people within the Beltway that you seem to 17 have so much faith in, when they want to preempt 18 the field that under the commerce clause -- and 19 that just about covers any action -- they have 20 the power to do so? Isn't that a fact? 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'm not 22 conversant with the commerce clause; but in 23 terms of general federal action, certainly they 3796 1 can supersede states. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. And 3 there are instances where the federal government 4 establishes a national minimum course of action 5 and then says to the states, knowing that there 6 are variations in the 50 states, that the states 7 may act in this area even though there exist 8 federal laws or federal regulations that the 9 states are free to impose different standards or 10 higher standards, if you will. Isn't that the 11 case? 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Generally, as I 13 understand it, it's equal to or greater than. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. And - 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: My bill, in 16 effect, accepts the equal to and says, if we're 17 going to have greater than, this legislative 18 body should act or at least consider whether or 19 not it should be pursued to a higher standard. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: And, of 21 course, if the Legislature is not in session, 22 then the Legislature would not be in a position 23 to act even though there may be a need to do so. 3797 1 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, there, in 2 fact, may be -- if there were a sufficiently 3 compelling need, there are terms to address that 4 in terms of convening the Legislature. But my 5 experience is such that generally the rule 6 making process is sufficiently prolonged that 7 the Legislature will be back in session before 8 things are finalized. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. Thank 10 you very much, Senator Wright. 11 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I appreciate 14 Senator Wright's candid and full explanation, 15 and I think we see very clearly what the bill 16 does; that it gives preeminence to the 17 bureaucrats in Washington and says to the people 18 here in New York State that except under those 19 limited circumstances where you are going to 20 have action by the Legislature, your state 21 officials cannot act, and what Washington says 22 is the minimum standard will become the standard 23 for New York. 3798 1 So you may have situations where 2 there is a need because of peculiar and 3 particular situations here in New York State - 4 it may involve landfills; it may involve a need 5 to clean up water, to clean up air -- that we're 6 going to be handcuffed by Senator Wright's bill 7 if it ever becomes law until the Legislature 8 acts. 9 Now, I just want to point out, 10 and I'm sure, Senator Wright, you are aware of 11 it, there are thousands of areas where the state 12 needs to enact regulations. We may all feel 13 that at times the regulations aren't 14 particularly salutory. Sometimes they may not 15 even be needed, but most of the regulations 16 people have no problems with. 17 Those regulations are made to 18 protect the people of the state of New York, and 19 they cover an enormous range of areas, and to 20 require in every instance where there is also 21 some federal statute or federal regulation in 22 that particular area that our state officials 23 cannot act in the interest of the people of the 3799 1 state of New York until the Legislature first 2 considers it would be thousands of different 3 actions that would be required by the 4 Legislature. 5 And, Senator Wright, I'm sure 6 you've noticed in the few months that you have 7 been with us that we're not exactly known for 8 acting expeditiously, for bringing the two 9 houses together, for getting the Governor to 10 lead us. I guess in part it's the nature of the 11 legislative process. 12 But because of the complexities 13 of our modern life, you need regulatory action. 14 The Legislature sets the overall course of 15 action. But you would require that the 16 Legislature act in minutiae in many areas where 17 you have some federal minimum standard that has 18 been established, and the federal government 19 never intended that the state could not try to 20 meet local conditions. 21 I am troubled by that basic 22 premium, Senator, in your bill; which is, that 23 what Washington does and those people down in 3800 1 Washington who may be thinking of a condition in 2 Wyoming or in South Dakota that that is more 3 appropriate for New York State and that you 4 would not trust New York State officials to do 5 what's necessary and needed and proper for the 6 welfare of the people of the state of New York 7 until you can get the Legislature together and 8 they can deal with all this minutiae. 9 I tell you, sir, you are leaving 10 the people of the state of New York unprotected. 11 You are paying enormous deference to the people 12 down in Washington, and I don't want to give 13 them that sort of power over the people of the 14 state of New York, and I think you are going to 15 find out that you are really hamstringing 16 effective government in the state of New York. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: I don't share 21 that view, obviously - 22 SENATOR GOLD: No, I don't mind. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 3801 1 Senator Wright. 2 SENATOR WRIGHT: -- from the 3 perspective that I think that we are hamstrung 4 now by the fact that we have agencies 5 promulgating excessive regulation, in many 6 instances merely to pursue their own agenda, to 7 justify the existence of the agency itself and 8 its participation in rulemaking. I think we, in 9 fact, should be restricting just that process. 10 I think there are a number of 11 instances in New York State where the federal 12 minimums are appropriate to New York State; 13 that, in fact, we have a natural inclination for 14 some reason in our rulemaking to try to exceed 15 those federal standards, and in many instances 16 put ourselves in an uncompetitive situation 17 relative to other states in this nation. 18 So I think there is merit to 19 pursuing. I don't see ourselves being involved 20 in a great deal of minutiae. In fact, I see us 21 -- by virtue of that practice that there is, in 22 fact, a very deliberative legislative practice 23 that reviews those rules will eliminate an awful 3802 1 lot of rules that are not necessary, that are 2 redundant and merely being pursued by the 3 agencies themselves. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 6 Senator Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 8 Senator Wright, you answered a couple of 9 questions for me. I'm not asking you to yield, 10 Senator. 11 But, Senator Wright, I asked you 12 a few questions; and while you quoted accurately 13 some language from your bill, you didn't give me 14 an accurate answer as to what the bill does, and 15 that's because we didn't get far enough. 16 Your bill says -- page 1, lines 17 12 to 16, that the agency shall not impose a 18 standard higher than a federal standard, and 19 then you said, "unless we specifically authorize 20 it." So that sounds like we're in very good 21 shape. 22 Except that when you get to lines 23 16 to 19 which says, "Any person subject to the 3803 1 requirements by both the state and the federal 2 government, the agency must accept if they've 3 complied with the federal government." 4 So, Senator, if this Legislature 5 authorized standards for our people which we 6 thought were better for our people and went past 7 the federal standards and the agency followed 8 the dictates of the New York State Legislature 9 and Governor, they -- under your bill, it would 10 be meaningless, because the person affected only 11 has to comply with the federal government's 12 directives, anyway. 13 So on the one hand, Senator, 14 you've got the language that you pointed out to 15 me which makes it sound like everything is fine 16 because the New York State Legislature is 17 keeping control, but you take that right away. 18 Because while the lines 13 and 15 allow the New 19 York State Legislature and the Governor to 20 suggest stricter compliance, when the individual 21 who must comply does not comply, you have given 22 them a legislative out, and I think that's the 23 problem. 3804 1 If you eliminated that 2 subdivision 2, then maybe, Senator, you could 3 make the argument that the agency itself can't 4 go past the federal government and leave it in 5 the hands of the Legislature; but as long as you 6 have that escape clause in there, this bill 7 absolutely voids the right of the Legislature, 8 the Governor, or anyone in the state of New York 9 to set standards that we think might be better 10 for our people. 11 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 13 Senator Wright, there has not been a question 14 asked, so I'm disposed to follow a list. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Okay. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 17 Senator Saland. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. I would like to commend Senator 20 Wright for bringing this bill before us today. 21 And I heard mention during the 22 course of somebody's comments earlier -- and I 23 apologize, I didn't hear the entire debate - 3805 1 about concern that somehow or other the whole 2 process would be hamstrung because it would 3 require that the process would stand still until 4 the Legislature acted. 5 Well, I think what Senator Wright 6 has done with this bill is basically to say that 7 the Legislature shall be preeminent; that we 8 shall not place ourselves in a situation in 9 which we shall have people who are not 10 responsive to the electoral process, people who 11 are not even responsive very often to many of 12 the elected officials including many of the 13 people who reside in this house, and the other 14 house for that matter, having the final say. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Why do 16 you rise, Senator Leichter? 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will Senator 18 Saland yield? 19 SENATOR SALAND: At the 20 conclusion of my remarks, I'm be very happy to 21 yield. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 23 SENATOR SALAND: I think that it 3806 1 is somewhat tortuous to -- to somehow or other 2 impose upon Senator Wright the kinds of 3 interpretation that some have attempted to 4 ascribe to him here today. 5 What we're really talking about 6 is that commonplace phrase that comes into so 7 many of our bills, to the effect that "the 8 Commissioner shall promulgate such reasonable 9 rules and regulations," being replaced in 10 appropriate instances with different language, 11 language to the effect of either giving him the 12 authority to exceed the federal regulations or 13 language that either by reason of this bill 14 would or by reason of language contained in any 15 subsequent act dealing with promulgation of 16 regulations would merely say that you are bound 17 by whatever would be the federal authority to 18 the extent that this body determined that 19 federal authority would be accurate. 20 And I'm not at all troubled by 21 that nor am I troubled by the idea that somebody 22 who complies -- where the Legislature has made 23 that determination that compliance with the 3807 1 federal statute is adequate or federal 2 regulations is adequate, somebody who complies 3 is effectively also complying for state 4 purposes, as well. It is a legislative 5 determination. It is not something that's been 6 abdicated to an agency or a bureaucrat. The 7 determination will be made in part by this 8 house, and I think that's where the authority 9 should lie. 10 I've had instances where people 11 have come to me. Not too long ago, a health 12 provider came to me with two forms. One was 13 fifty-some-odd pages long; one was four-plus 14 pages long. They both dealt with the same 15 health provider. They both sought the same 16 information. The four-page form surprisingly 17 was the federal form; and the equally 18 surprisingly -- I am see being facetious -- the 19 fifty-some-odd page was the state form. 20 That really is not the way we 21 ought to be doing business here in New York. I 22 think it may require more of us as the elective 23 body to be more discerning in how we extend that 3808 1 authority to our regulators, but I think we're 2 up to that task. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 4 Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, 6 Senator Saland. Let me ask you this question. 7 I would be interested in Senator Wright's answer 8 to it also, if he chooses to. 9 Senator, if the concern is -- and 10 I gather that's what underlies this -- that we 11 have regulations that are promulgated by our 12 state agencies that are unnecessary, that are 13 cumbersome, that do not carry out the will of 14 the people of the state of New York, we as a 15 Legislature have the power, and I dare say the 16 obligation, right now to strike down those 17 regulations, and that's how we ought to proceed. 18 But you are doing it, frankly, in 19 a round-about way which imperils action by the 20 state where -- and by state agencies where there 21 would be no problem whatsoever. If Senator 22 Wright's concern is that by -- or Senator Wright 23 thinks he's achieving his purpose by having us 3809 1 accept as a -- not as a minimum but becomes as a 2 maximum really of any action, that action which 3 is taken by the people within the Beltway, and 4 nothing can be done by state officials until we 5 act as a sort of a prophylactic measure to keep 6 those state agencies from enacting regulations 7 that we don't want, why in the first instance 8 don't we just be more vigilant in acting against 9 improper state regulations? 10 I'm sorry I made that question so 11 long. It could have been stated much more 12 simply. 13 (Laughter. ) 14 SENATOR SALAND: I think I 15 understand the question. 16 Let me start off by saying that 17 we in New York suffer from somewhere in the area 18 of about four and a half miles worth of 19 regulations were they extended end to end, some 20 23- to 24-, 25,000 feet worth of regulation. 21 Certainly an unenviable record, one which I 22 would hope that Senator Wright's bill today 23 would take us on the path to correcting. 3810 1 I don't view this as somehow or 2 other the emasculation of federalism. I think 3 it just places a burden upon us -- you're 4 talking about prophylactics. I'm talking about 5 emasculation. Excuse me. Let's get this on the 6 same wave length. I don't think it does 7 anything but put the onus on us, Senator 8 Leichter, to be more responsive and perhaps a 9 little more discriminating in the way we extend 10 the authority to our agencies to regulate. 11 I don't think we're being 12 preempted by the fed's. I think what we're 13 saying is that due to the kinds of experiences 14 that many, if not all of us, have had with those 15 who regulated in New York, we think that it's 16 excessive regulation. We think this is the 17 means by which to deal with the excessive 18 regulation, and we're not waiving our ability in 19 those cases where legislatively we determine 20 that there should be a more extensive 21 requirement by New York State to do that. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 23 Saland will yield to just one more question, and 3811 1 I'll make it shorter. It will be the last one 2 because I know other people want to speak on 3 this. 4 But, Senator Saland, I don't know 5 whether it was fully responsive to my concern, 6 but that was maybe because my question was sort 7 of cumbersome. 8 But why? If you are concerned 9 about these miles and miles of regulations, why 10 aren't you putting in bills striking down this 11 regulation, taking away that authority from an 12 agency? In other words, you've got all the power 13 -- you and me, you more than me, but all of us 14 collectively here in this Capitol. Let's do 15 it. Why do it in such a round-about way which 16 may leave the people of the state of New York 17 unprotected? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 19 Senator. I would just also try to respond 20 briefly. I think this is a well-organized, 21 comprehensive way within which to deal with the 22 issue. It certainly makes it a front burner 23 issue. And I think that were we to attempt to 3812 1 take those four-plus miles worth of regulations 2 and do them one at a time, there really wouldn't 3 be the ability to do it in the kind of more, I 4 think, expeditious, comprehensive fashion that 5 this bill can accomplish. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 8 Senator Dollinger. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 10 Saland yield to one question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Excuse 12 me? 13 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 14 Saland yield to one question? 15 SENATOR SALAND: To you, Senator 16 Gold, always. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Does 18 the Senator yield? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, my 21 concern is very specific. I understand your 22 support of the concept, of the general concept 23 as explained by Senator Wright. But isn't it a 3813 1 fact that line 16 to 19 on page 1 undoes our 2 capacity to be able to do anything once we pass 3 this law? 4 SENATOR SALAND: I -- I would 5 think that those lines merely reaffirm. The 6 intent of Senator Wright basically says that 7 when somebody acts in compliance that compliance 8 is adequate. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Well, 10 Senator, my point is that if you - 11 SENATOR SALAND: I think the 12 first provision presupposes the second. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. But what I'm 14 saying is that if you agree with line 16 through 15 19, which is fine, doesn't line 16 through 19 16 absolutely void lines 13, 14 and 15? That's all 17 I'm getting at. Don't those lines void the 18 other lines? 19 SENATOR SALAND: I don't believe 20 so, Senator. I believe -- I do believe they are 21 consistent. I do believe - 22 SENATOR GOLD: You say that with 23 a straight face? 3814 1 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me? 2 SENATOR GOLD: You believe they 3 are consistent. 4 SENATOR SALAND: I believe 5 they're consistent. 6 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: We 8 have a list. I already excluded Senator Daly, 9 inadvertently, but I did recognize Senator 10 Dollinger, and he is next and then Senator Daly 11 and then you. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. Will the Senator yield to a 14 question? Senator Wright, if you will yield to a 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 17 Senator Wright, do you yield? 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'm looking 19 forward to the opportunity. Yes, Senator. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll give you 21 a chance to fill in the blank, too. 22 My first question, Senator, is, 23 is this proposal retroactive on the body of 3815 1 regulations, the 27 miles or 24 miles or 24,000, 2 whatever that number is that Senator Saland 3 talked about? Is this proposal retroactive on 4 all the current state regulations? 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, in fact, it 6 is not, Senator. The effective date talks about 7 October 1 of '93 as related in the bill. But 8 inasmuch as we would like to go back and address 9 all of those regulatory issues, in fact this 10 goes forward. And the reason for that is very 11 simply, as Senator Leichter points out, to go 12 through the process of recalling and correcting 13 all of those issues, in fact, has one additional 14 requirement that this procedure would modify; 15 and that is approval by the Governor. 16 So that where this house 17 identifies an issue and the Assembly concurs so 18 that the Legislature has, in fact, acted and 19 said, "We believe that this is an inappropriate 20 regulation," in fact the very executive that 21 oversees that agency then has to concur with 22 that legislative intent to roll back that 23 regulation promulgated by his own agency or her 3816 1 own agency. Therein lies the concern. 2 By placing a procedure in place 3 in the beginning so that this Legislature, in 4 effect, acts and provides its legislative 5 authority and authorization, we are restored to 6 the appropriate role of making laws and 7 providing the policy of this state and not the 8 appointive bureaucrats. And I think that's a 9 significant difference. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Just 11 so I understand it, Mr. President, it's not 12 intended then to affect any prior regulations. 13 It will go into effect October 1st and apply to 14 all the regulations promulgated after that. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: That is 16 correct. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: We need to 19 establish a particular time frame. 20 And I would point out, in looking 21 at the issues as identified by Senator Gold, 22 that it appears that we've agreed with the 23 initial provisions now that relate to statute 3817 1 and, therefore, have to deal with the 2 requirement; and those requirements as related 3 in 16 through 19 are very specific where they 4 talk about being imposed by a state statute, the 5 very procedure that we're talking about -- the 6 Legislature has acted. 7 And, in fact, if the Legislature 8 does not -- if, in fact, the Legislature imposes 9 a higher standard, that higher standard would 10 have to be met. This talks about a similar 11 requirement. So if we have a higher standard 12 than the federal, they are certainly not 13 similar. In the instance that they are similar, 14 we're saying we accept federal compliance to 15 meet state compliance, because the example 16 Senator Saland used is a very good one. In 17 fact, you have both federal and state statute 18 achieving the same thing except we require 19 50-plus pages to do it when the federal 20 government requires several. 21 That's the kind of issue that's 22 important to growing the business community and 23 dealing with the concerns that our businesses 3818 1 and local governments have raised. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Chair 3 man, I'm having some difficulty hearing Senator 4 Wright. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes, I 6 understand. May we have some order, please, in 7 the chamber, particularly in the rear. 8 Thank you, gentlemen. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator 10 Wright would just yield to another question. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 12 Senator Wright yield? 13 SENATOR WRIGHT: Certainly, Mr. 14 President. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The use of 16 the term "standard" in this bill is a term of 17 art in the regulatory environment. Is that a 18 fair statement, Senator? 19 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'm sorry, 20 Senator. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The use of 22 the term "standard", I'm trying to find out what 23 you mean by the term "standard". It's used. 3819 1 It's a term of art that you use in this bill 2 about federal standards. Generally, my 3 understanding is that those standards apply, for 4 example, in parts per million for presence of 5 certain items in water testing. But is it 6 intended to apply simply in the ecological area, 7 or does the term "standard" have a broader 8 meaning as used in this bill? 9 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, the term 10 "standard" can be applied to any particular 11 area whereby the federal government establishes 12 a standard incorporated within its rule and 13 regulation that must be met regardless of it 14 being in a particular environmental area or 15 other areas. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr. 17 President, if Senator Wright would yield? What 18 is the effect if the federal government changes 19 the standard after we've promulgated our 20 regulation? 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, Senator, 22 that would depend on the actions the federal 23 government took. If, in fact, the federal 3820 1 government exceeded New York State's existing 2 requirements at a particular point in time, they 3 have established a new base line; therefore, a 4 new federal minimum; and that, in fact, applies 5 to New York State without New York State taking 6 any action. That's required on the state. 7 That's the minimum. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But -- again, 9 through you, Mr. President -- if the federal 10 government rolled back the regulatory 11 requirement, our regulation at that point would 12 be meaningless. Is that correct? 13 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, it would 14 depend on the actions the state Legislature had 15 taken in promulgating that rule. If we 16 established a standard that exceeded the federal 17 standard and the federal government rolled back 18 their standard, in fact we still exceed the 19 federal standard. And that was specifically 20 authorized by this Legislature if this bill was 21 in effect. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it fair to 23 say -- again through you, Mr. President, with 3821 1 Senator Wright continuing to yield -- that this 2 Legislature will have to be fully conversant 3 with federal regulatory principles, with federal 4 regulatory standards, before it can enact any 5 specific piece of legislation that will require 6 rulemaking or rule promulgation by any one of 7 the agencies that exist in this state? 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, I don't 9 believe that's the case, Senator. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Now how will 11 we know whether or not we want to give them the 12 authority to exceed the federal standard if we 13 don't know what the standard is? 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: Any more than 15 you currently know. You rely on the agencies to 16 provide that information and recommendation, and 17 you rely on various oversight, such as the 18 committee that I co-chair with an Assembly 19 colleague that oversees those processes. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Final 21 question. Do you have any estimate of how much 22 time this will take for the bureaucracy to 23 figure out whether federal regulatory standards 3822 1 are exceeded or not, whether the state 2 regulations will exceed them or not? Do you have 3 any computation for how much time in the 4 bureaucracy it will take to do that extra work? 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, I don't, 6 because I don't see it as extra work, Senator. 7 Right now, when there is a federal minimum 8 standard, the state is required to achieve 9 compliance; therefore, the agency must be 10 conversant on that standard under current 11 requirements to make that determination whether 12 or not they, in fact, have achieved compliance. 13 So there's no additional burden 14 of work. In fact, I believe that there will 15 actually be less work as there will be less 16 rulemaking and regulatory propagation. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A final 18 question that ties in with Senator Leichter's 19 point. 20 One of the issues you brought up, 21 Senator, was the issue of landfills. My 22 understanding in this state is that on Long 23 Island, where we have an extreme water aquifer 3823 1 problem, there are certain regulations for the 2 construction of landfills. In other parts of 3 the state which have drumlins and natural hills, 4 perhaps in your part of the state and my part of 5 the state, there are different state regulations 6 for the construction of landfills because of 7 differences in topography and geography and a 8 number of other factors. 9 Why should we buy into a single 10 standard that might be set for a place like 11 Wheeling, West Virginia or Albuquerque, New 12 Mexico, for the construction of a landfill when 13 our own state regulators know the differences 14 between parts of our state and can create 15 different regulations for construction of those 16 to reflect the differences in their natural 17 state? 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, this bill, 19 Senator, does not require you to buy in that. 20 In effect, says if you believe that a higher 21 standard should be applicable to New York State, 22 it gives you the obligation or the opportunity 23 to do that; and in fact, that's how the Long 3824 1 Island landfill standards were achieved, 2 specific action by the state Legislature to 3 protect that particular aquifer, the sole 4 aquifer on Long Island, because of those 5 concerns; and, in fact, that exceeded the 6 federal standard as did the general application 7 of landfill standards to the balance of the 8 state but by specific state action. 9 Now, what we find in hindsight is 10 that the Governor requires his agencies to 11 appoint a task force to go back and review those 12 particular regulations at the behest of local 13 government; and in doing that, we find that they 14 have rescinded and they've modified a number of 15 those that exceeded the federal standards 16 they've now determined to be redundant, and they 17 are saving local governments money. 18 In my own county, one small town 19 is saving $750,000 in a closure because of the 20 rollback of those regulations that exceeded the 21 federal standard. The unfortunate part is in 22 the intervening three years there are numerous 23 municipalities across this state that had to pay 3825 1 a higher price because of that. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, on the bill. 4 I understand the intent of 5 Senator Wright's proposal and I appreciate 6 that. What I, unfortunately, think is that - 7 and I'm actually surprised is that the New York 8 State Trial Lawyers are not a part of this bill 9 and are not writing in support of it because, in 10 my judgment, Mr. President, this lit... this 11 bill will open an unbelievable door to 12 litigation in this state, over the meaning of 13 terms like the "same subject matter", the 14 requirements that are "greater than those 15 imposed by a federal law or rule", "unless the 16 agency is specifically authorized". These terms 17 are so broad that they would generate a flood of 18 litigation. 19 I guess I can understand why. 20 They won't be the Trial Lawyers because this is 21 where the corporate lawyers go to work in this 22 type of rule-making by legislatures that write 23 up an attempt to modify the rule-making powers 3826 1 of state agencies, the issues of whether there 2 are federal standards, whether they have been 3 exceeded, whether they have specific legislative 4 authority to exceed those standards. This will 5 generate an unbelieveable pile of litigation in 6 this state which will cost business tons of 7 money, which will cost communities tons of 8 money, which will cost the state of New York 9 tons of money. 10 I think that the critical issue 11 of whether we should look at the regulatory 12 process ought to be done on a case-by-case basis 13 as issues come up before the commission that you 14 head or Senator Saland's Committee on State and 15 Local Government. We do have the power, as 16 Senator Leichter said, to go back and to change 17 those. We did it in the case of the California 18 car emissions standards. We were able to do 19 that. We did that as a legislative body. 20 In my judgment, we're better off 21 doing that than we are opening the door to an 22 absolutely totally contentious situation where 23 businesses will be arguing that there are 3827 1 federal standards, that these standards have 2 been exceeded, that there is no express 3 legislative grant. We will end up in this bill, 4 frankly, my colleagues, at least in Monroe 5 County that the trial bar will be salivating 6 knowing that this bill might pass and that the 7 whole issue of federal authority and state 8 authority over regulatory powers will be bottled 9 by future lawsuits. 10 I appreciate the interest. I see 11 that it stems from the right motive, but it 12 seems to me that this bill is going to be the 13 subject of unbelieveable litigation and cost and 14 the beneficial purpose that you're seeking will 15 be lost on years if not centuries of 16 litigation. 17 I'm going to vote no. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator Daly. 20 SENATOR DALY: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 Mr. President, on the bill. 23 There have been so many red herrings thrown on 3828 1 the floor here this afternoon I think we should 2 open up our own canning factory. This is good 3 legislation and I commend the Senator for 4 drafting it and putting it before us. 5 You know, when you get right down 6 to the bottom line, I think this bill clearly 7 shows us what's happening and why we have to do 8 something about it. We literally have 9 department heads taking on the mantle that 10 belongs to the Legislature, that of policy 11 making in this state. We have department 12 bureaucrats writing or putting together reports, 13 putting together questionnaires, similar to the 14 one that Senator Saland mentioned, 54 pages, 15 which is driving both the private and the public 16 sector in this state crazy. 17 I heard one of my colleagues on 18 the other side say that this bill gives 19 preeminence to the officials and what -- to the 20 bureaucrats in Washington. It does just the 21 opposite. It discourages the bureaucrats in 22 Albany from usurping the rights and powers of 23 this Legislature. We are the policy-making body 3829 1 in the state. The Commissioner of Environmental 2 Conservation, the Department of Transportation 3 do not set policy for the state. 4 One of the other comments raised 5 on the other side concerned the fact that, well, 6 let them write the rules and regs and then, if 7 you don't like them, you know, throw them out by 8 law, and I just remind you what happens. 9 Basically, if they -- we have rules and 10 regulations coming down from Washington and the 11 state of New York, the Commissioner decides that 12 they're not strict enough -- you take the 13 California standards versus the federal 14 standards that was mentioned before -- then both 15 houses have to concur before those rules and 16 regulations are thrown out. That's the point, 17 Senator. Both houses have to concur. That's 18 why our policy-making should begin in the 19 Legislature in both houses and stay here. 20 As I said, we see rules and 21 regulations coming down. Our house might say, 22 Hey, wait a minute. We think this goes much too 23 far, but we need action from the other house and 3830 1 so literally our house is taken out of the 2 play. 3 And so I really believe this is 4 very important and very good legislation. The 5 complaints I get back when I finish, Senator, 6 back from my district, from business primarily, 7 concern the bureaucracy that we've formed in New 8 York State and the myriad of rules and 9 regulations that we roll out day after day after 10 day, and I think it's about time the Legislature 11 took back what the Constitution gave us and 12 that's the power and right of making policy in 13 this state and take it away from commissioners 14 who think they've got the God-given right to 15 tell us what's best in New York State. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President, will Senator Daly just yield to one 22 question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Will 3831 1 you yield to a question? 2 SENATOR DALY: I'd be happy to. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, 4 borrowing on my colleague, Senator Leichter's 5 phrase, who should make the policy in this 6 state, bureaucrats we can control through the 7 process I describe, or bureaucrats in Washington 8 we can't control at all? 9 SENATOR DALY: Well, when 10 bureaucrats in Washington make policy we can 11 change, we then change it. But remember this 12 bill says if the state bureaucrats feel that 13 they want to change the rules and regs 14 established by Washington they don't have the 15 power unless they come here. That's what the 16 bill says, Senator. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 18 Senator Gold, to close for the Minority. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 Mr. President, I understand the 22 problem, and I think everybody understands the 23 problem, but I think that one of my colleagues 3832 1 who I asked a question to was not really frank, 2 and I understand that. There's a huge 3 reluctance in this chamber once a bill is on the 4 floor for anybody to ever admit there's anything 5 wrong with it. What usually happens when 6 something is dreadfully wrong is that we have 7 the debate, the Majority votes to pass it and 8 then a week or so later it sneaks back in on a 9 motion to recall and reconsider and it gets 10 amended and whatever, and I think that's really 11 foolishness. 12 This bill is defective. If it's 13 the sense of this house that we want to set the 14 federal standard -- and that's bad -- then let's 15 say it out front, let's do it and let's not even 16 pretend that we have a right to override that 17 because this bill does not give us that right. 18 My colleague, Senator Leichter, 19 however, is absolutely correct when he says that 20 this bill is, in effect, an attempt to cure all 21 the mistakes that you're saying we make because 22 if -- if we think that something is -- is wrong 23 with existing regulation, it's within our power 3833 1 to correct it. Not only that, but we have 2 something called the Administrative Regulations 3 Review Commission. In my opinion, and I might 4 -- may be a minority of one in this world, I 5 think that that commission could be one of the 6 most powerful forces we have in government 7 because when it was created, the concept was 8 that we would look into what the administrative 9 agencies were doing and we would help bring it 10 all into line. 11 Now, we have done a lot of work 12 and I respect the people who have chaired that 13 commission as it's gone along and perhaps the - 14 it's our fault in not communicating funding or 15 what, but that is one way to get at the morass 16 of regulations. That is real legislative 17 oversight. 18 In addition to that, I know we 19 used to have a procedure. I know when Senator 20 Present was the very distinguished chair of that 21 commission, I used to ask him every once in a 22 while whether or not certain bills had been 23 reviewed by his commission to see whether or not 3834 1 the grant of administrative authority was a 2 proper grant and Senator Present assured me 3 that, in fact, the grants were proper and within 4 line. 5 No, Senator Wright, if for years 6 we have been passing bills giving grants to the 7 agencies to do rule-making and nobody has done 8 anything to put in bills to repeal it except 9 maybe once or twice, I don't know who we're 10 complaining about if we're not complaining about 11 the Majority in this house and the Majority in 12 the other house. 13 If there is a problem -- and 14 Senator, there isn't one Democrat in this house 15 who isn't sensitive to the needs of small 16 business and large business in the state of New 17 York when it comes to adherence to regulations. 18 But you don't in one bill, which seems incentive 19 enough in its one and a half pages, wipe out the 20 authority of every member of this Legislature to 21 be involved in this process. 22 Now, theoretically, Senator 23 Wright, we could have a situation where each 3835 1 bill we pass from now on says "notwithstanding 2 the provisions of section (b) 2," and then we go 3 on from there. But unless you had that language 4 in every single bill from now on where we dealt 5 with regulations, we have basically voided the 6 regulatory power of this state to set these 7 minimums. 8 The problem is there, Senator 9 Wright. We have created a commission to help us 10 with it and we have a legislative authority to 11 deal with it on an individual basis. I think 12 the way you're doing it is wrong. It's too much 13 of a blanket and I think the bill itself has an 14 inconsistency which ought to be cured. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 16 Senator Wright, to close for the Majority. 17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I think what this bill speaks to 20 are the issues that we hear every time we have 21 occasion to meet with anyone in our communities, 22 any time we have occasion to meet with the 23 business community. I, in fact, had that 3836 1 opportunity again today in meeting with 2 representatives of the forest and paper 3 industry, and number one on the list of many of 4 those individuals when they're speaking with us 5 in the district or down here in Albany is very 6 simply their concern over regulation, the 7 continuing growth of regulation in this state, 8 the continuing cost being imposed on businesses 9 in this state by virtue of those regulations. 10 Where do those regulations come 11 from? From agencies with appointed individuals. 12 I do not believe the bureaucrats in Washington 13 nor do I believe the bureaucrats in Albany 14 should be making those determinations, but, in 15 fact, it should be the elected members of the 16 Legislature that have been sent here by our 17 constituents, by those small businesses, by 18 those local governments to make sure we look out 19 for their interests, to make sure we make it a 20 clear and distinct determination of what is in 21 the best interests of this state and if there is 22 a federal standard that, in looking at that 23 standard, we determine whether or not there, in 3837 1 fact, is a greater need that should be addressed 2 and if there is not, we do not add additional 3 burdens to the process. We do not require 4 duplication; we do not require redundancy. We, 5 in effect, provide the streamlining, the 6 efficiency, the right sizing of our regulatory 7 process just as the private sector is currently 8 doing that within their businesses. 9 I believe that's what this bill 10 speaks to. It will not embroil the Legislature 11 in minutiae. It will, in fact, provide a very 12 deliberate process to the rule-making of those 13 agencies and then and by doing that, enhance the 14 legislative oversight of this body, my 15 colleagues and your colleagues in the Assembly, 16 so that we're in a position to address that. 17 I think it's a step forward. 18 There are a number of other initiatives such as 19 negotiated rule-making that we further need to 20 address. This is the beginning of a salvo, I 21 hope, that will begin to dismantle the rule 22 making process so it's a much more streamlined 23 and efficient process to assist the people of 3838 1 this state. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect October 1st, 1993. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 11 Senator Leichter, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just to 13 explain my vote, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 15 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I want to just 17 point out that listening to Senator Wright and 18 point out to you, Senator Wright, you've got the 19 power right now to do something about not only 20 regulations in the future but regulations that 21 are on the books now. I have trouble under 22 standing the Majority here. They'll vote for 23 large spending increases and then Senator Bruno 3839 1 will put in a bill that you can't -- or rather a 2 Constitutional Amendment. 3 I mean there's a certain amount 4 of hypocrisy. You've got that here now. Do 5 something about it if you think the regulations 6 are wrong, but don't add -- don't turn it over 7 to Washington and say that the premise of your 8 bill happens to be that the bureaucrats in 9 Washington know better what should happen in New 10 York State than the people of the state of New 11 York and their elected representatives and those 12 people who they appoint to office. I can't 13 understand it. 14 I vote in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Will 16 the negatives raise their hands? 17 Senator Daly. 18 SENATOR DALY: There goes another 19 red herring. 20 Mr. President, I think Senator 21 Leichter is missing the point. The point is 22 that this house feels that it has to have a 23 voice and should have a voice in policy-making. 3840 1 If the -- if the commissioners of the 2 departments in New York State set their own 3 rules and regulations that are accepted by one 4 house but rejected by the other house, those 5 rules and regulations stay in force. If we 6 force them -- I should say, if the rules and 7 regulations come down from Washington and the 8 commissioner wants to make them more stringent, 9 they have to go through both houses. Then this 10 house has a voice. Then the entire Legislature 11 has a voice, and that's the point, Senator. 12 Your way, you can wipe out one house. You can't 13 make changes. This way the Legislature sets the 14 policy and both houses have a voice. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: How do 16 you vote? 17 SENATOR DALY: I vote aye. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator Dollinger. Do you rise to explain your 20 vote? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 22 I disagree with my colleague from 23 western New York. I think that that was a live 3841 1 flipping, flopping herring, not a red herring, 2 that was tossed on the table. When Senator 3 Leichter says that we have the power, we clearly 4 do have the power to look at every regulation 5 that's passed by every agency. We have the 6 ability to go back and say, that's inconsistent 7 with our original intent. We have the ability 8 to look at it and to say that that doesn't 9 achieve the goal that we want, and we can decide 10 whether we want to move it back to the federal 11 standard or not. 12 You say it requires two houses. 13 It does require two houses for the Legislature 14 to act, but that's the legislative power. We've 15 got the power. All we have to do is convince 16 our colleagues in the Assembly or convince our 17 colleagues on the other side of the aisle that 18 we ought to exercise that power. We've got the 19 power to do it, in my opinion, and I agree with 20 Senator Wright on this. The greatest complaint 21 I hear is that there are regulations in effect 22 in this state that are no longer consistent with 23 what the Legislature wanted. Our obligation in 3842 1 that instance is to go back, look at that 2 rule-making and decide what is in the best 3 interests of the people of this state and tell 4 the bureaucrats that that doesn't meet our 5 wishes, our collective wishes, the wishes of 6 both houses. It's the only way we can act but 7 unless we go back and do it on a case-by-case 8 basis, we're doing it with far too broad a 9 brush. We're placing far too much reliance on 10 people inside the Beltway who have never been a 11 part of this state. 12 I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 14 Results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative -- those recorded in the negative 17 on Calendar Number 613 are Senators Dollinger, 18 Gold, Markowitz, Mendez, Ohrenstein, 19 Oppenheimer, Stachowski, Stavisky, also Senator 20 Espada. Ayes 47, nays 9. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 22 bill is passed. Continue the calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3843 1 654, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3362, 2 an act to amend Chapter 198 of the Laws of 3 1978. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 6 Explanation is requested. Senator Volker. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Senator 8 Montgomery and I, I believe, had a discussion 9 last year about this bill. I think this 10 amendment that I'm proposing is restrictive of 11 her amendment. What this bill is, is an 12 extender of the school health services program. 13 This bill which originated in the 14 Laws of 1978 is like a lot of pieces of 15 legislation we have around here and it's part of 16 a program that was passed along with a 17 demonstration project for -- primarily for the 18 city of Buffalo, in the state originally, and 19 several of these demonstration projects are 20 still around, but what happens is they get 21 extended from year to year. 22 There are several reasons for it, 23 one reason being they are extended because the 3844 1 three parties being the Assembly, the Senate and 2 the Governor for one reason or the other does 3 not want to permanentize it. I believe in this 4 case there are two parts of the three that don't 5 want to permanentize it, one of the reasons 6 being that because of the nature of the 7 programs, the parties to the program would 8 prefer that they remain demonstration projects 9 to make sure that the programs accomplish what 10 was intended in the first place. 11 So that is why, frankly, we've 12 extended it from year to year. I understand 13 that Senator Montgomery has an amendment she'd 14 like to present. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 16 Senator Montgomery. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 18 President, I would like to offer up my amendment 19 to Senator Volker's bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: You 21 waive its reading? 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, and I'd 23 like to waive it. 3845 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: To 2 explain it. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right, 4 to explain my amendment. 5 Mr. President, I am -- I consider 6 this really a friendly hostile amendment, if you 7 will, and I've offered it up at other times 8 specifically I guess more often with Senator 9 Tully and now that Senator Volker has decided to 10 do this legislation, I'm very pleased and 11 supportive of it, and I fully understand why you 12 may have made a decision initially to make it a 13 demonstration program. I think that was 14 probably a wise thing to do, but my amendment 15 simply would make it a permanent program and 16 attempt to expand this program to -- so that it 17 is accessible to many, many more youngsters in 18 the state of New York. 19 The reason that I am ready to 20 make a comment is because it has been 21 demonstrated without question that this is one 22 of the most valuable and most cost-effective 23 primary health programs that we have in this 3846 1 state and it meets the needs of those people in 2 our state who are the most at risk of all the 3 people in the world and that's teens. At least 4 some of our programs are in high schools and 5 junior high schools in the state. We know now 6 that parents do consent to their children to use 7 the services. 8 We know now that those health 9 services provided in school-based health clinics 10 go far beyond a narrow concept of their being 11 specifically there for reproductive health 12 services. They do physical exams for 13 youngsters; they treat asthma and hypertension 14 and colds and coughs. They are there to keep 15 students from dying who have been shot, as in 16 one case in Brooklyn in particular in the last 17 month. 18 These programs very often are the 19 first -- provide the first opportunity for 20 primary shelter for teens in our state. A large 21 number of students who are immigrants, from 22 immigrant families, are treated in those 23 programs, so there is full and complete 3847 1 justification, Senator Tully, for expanding 2 this, not only expanding it but making it 3 permanent, making it a permanent part of our 4 health care system in this state, so that we can 5 say without question that the state of New York 6 is supporting and delivering health care to 7 teen, pre-teen as well as younger children in 8 our state. 9 So my amendment just simply goes 10 a little bit beyond what the bill does. I am 11 again supportive of this legislation, Senator 12 Volker. I think it's been a wonderful 13 opportunity for us that you've given even though 14 initially you were very probably narrow minded 15 about it, you only wanted it for Buffalo, but 16 thank -- thanks to the wisdom of the 17 Legislature, they extended it and now there - 18 there are 124 or so programs in the state. 19 There's not one in my district, unfortunately, 20 but at least we've gotten this far, and I'm only 21 saying to you now that we need to really just go 22 ahead and accept the fact that what you have 23 done, your proposal, your hypothesis has been 3848 1 proven to be correct, and so let's now live by 2 it and I certainly would hope that this body 3 would for once, maybe the only time in the 4 history of the state, vote for a friendly 5 hostile amendment to a bill and then vote for 6 the legislation. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 9 Senator Markowitz. 10 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you 11 very much, Mr. President. 12 First, I want to commend you, 13 Senator Montgomery, for your sensitivity, your 14 awareness and concern for school age children. 15 It's not often that a guy from Brooklyn really 16 looks to Buffalo with a great amount of thanks, 17 not only for your great street scene and the 18 great scenes that come out of Buffalo but also 19 for legislation like this that really has 20 provided, initially under Buffalo's leadership, 21 some superb services for kids in school, 22 especially health services that are ever 23 increasingly necessary as part of the mix in 3849 1 terms of educational or non- educational 2 services provided by public schools. 3 I share Senator Montgomery's 4 concern. The high school that she was referring 5 to is within the Senate District that I serve in 6 and I might say my alma mater, Wingate High 7 School, and I know how important their school 8 based health care program is and what it could 9 mean to every high schooler, whether it be John 10 Jay or Prospect Heights, for instance, Clara 11 Barton or Erasmus, all of these wonderful 12 schools, would certainly like to join in if this 13 bill was expanded and made permanent so that it 14 doesn't have to continue to come back each year 15 as it has since 1984. 16 Certainly, Senator, you have 17 asked for us to support your efforts. Won't you 18 yield on this and agree with Senator 19 Montgomery's sensitive amendment to your 20 legislation? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: On the 22 amendment, all those in favor signify by saying 23 aye. 3850 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Those opposed nay. 3 (Response of "Nay.") 4 The nays have it. The amendment 5 is defeated. 6 Senator Volker. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 8 very quickly, and I didn't want to - 9 Senator, first of all, the reason 10 that this started out as a Buffalo program was 11 that my recollection is that at one time there 12 were some different kinds of programs in several 13 cities in the state, that there were a series of 14 demonstration programs, some of which fell by 15 the wayside, I believe, back in the '70s. 16 We developed -- I think 17 Assemblyman Eve and myself and some other 18 legislators I think initially developed this 19 health program because of some studies that were 20 done in the city of Buffalo. As you say, as the 21 years went on, it's expanded, and so forth. 22 The problem with making it 23 permanent, I know very honestly -- I'd be more 3851 1 than happy to work with Senator Tully and any 2 people in the Assembly, and so forth, in 3 permanentizing it, but the problem with a lot of 4 these areas, and I have another -- at least two 5 other areas where I carry bills that we do 6 extend this on, because the agreements that we 7 made years ago still hold, and I hesitate to 8 mention, one of them happens to be in community 9 block grants where Senator Mendez has asked me 10 on several occasions and other people to change 11 the formula that we did with the community block 12 grants, and people have come to me, lobbyists in 13 the industry, and so forth, and my problem was 14 -- the problem with changing the formula was - 15 I talked to the initial negotiators and very 16 honestly the big problem was in the city of New 17 York. At that time we had a different mayor. 18 There were a lot of different feelings on how 19 the community block grant should be set up. 20 We were told by a number of 21 people that, if we made any small changes in the 22 formulas, we were risking unraveling this whole 23 agreement that happened many, many years ago, 3852 1 and I'm not saying that maybe it's quite as 2 complicated here, but the problem I think is 3 that maybe we should look at this in terms of 4 permanentizing it, but I think what would have 5 to be done by three parts, the Governor, the 6 Assembly and Senate and, of course, as you know, 7 this is your bill here. It seems to me, if 8 passed, there was some other language in it that 9 would actually do the expanding which we did 10 this year to permanentize it which I understand, 11 but I think what we would have to do is, in 12 order to do that, we would have to get the 13 agreement of the Health Department and the 14 Bureau of the Budget, and so forth, to lift this 15 from a demonstration project category, and I 16 really don't have any objection to it. 17 I guess just the problem is that 18 this is the proposal that we have right now and 19 it seems to me that we should pass this and, if 20 we can go on from there and expand it, I'd be 21 more than happy to. I happen to agree with you 22 that it has been very successful and I think we 23 have slowly begun to move, as I understand, to 3853 1 expand the program and I think it could be 2 expanded some more. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Continue the calendar. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 687, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 16 3171-A, Private Housing Finance Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3854 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 2 Results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 701, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1023, 8 to allow David F. Jung - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 10 THE SECRETARY: -- retroactive 11 membership in the employees' retirement - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 13 Senator Farley. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 This bill authorizes David Jung 17 of Gloversville, New York to file a request to 18 obtain retroactive membership in Tier I of the 19 New York State/local employees' retirement 20 system. 21 David Jung served as the 22 assistant city attorney for the city of 23 Gloversville from October '68 to December '79. 3855 1 In 1968, David Jung filled out a -- proper 2 paperwork to join the employees' retirement 3 system. However, the city of Gloversville 4 failed to forward this paperwork to the ERS. As 5 a result, this individual, Jung, was not 6 enrolled in the employees' retirement system in 7 1968 and cannot receive service credit for 11 8 years he -- he spent as assistant city 9 attorney. 10 David Jung discovered this error 11 in 1989, when he requested credit for his 12 previous service. The bill will rectify a 13 clerical error made by the city of Gloversville 14 and will award David Jung, who is now a judge, 15 11 years of service credit in the employees' 16 retirement system which he deserves. 17 The city of Gloversville has 18 acknowledged their error and has agreed to pay 19 $30,000, the cost of this bill. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 21 yield to a question? 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 3856 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Mr. Jung is 3 an attorney? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: No, he's a 5 judge. 6 SENATOR GOLD: No, no. Will you 7 yield to another question? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Certainly. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Is he an attorney, 10 a licensed -- I know his job as a judge -- is he 11 an attorney? 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, he is. He 13 was city attorney. 14 SENATOR GOLD: And Senator, 15 during the time that he was an attorney, he 16 didn't know that as a member of the retirement 17 system he would get statements on a periodic 18 basis about what was doing with his retirement 19 and things would be taken -- money would be 20 taken out or not taken out? He didn't get 21 them? 22 SENATOR FARLEY: There was no 23 money taken out in Tier I. 3857 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, but as an 2 attorney, Senator, he wasn't aware for 11 years 3 that there was a document missing from his mail 4 once or twice a year? 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, as an 6 attorney, he wasn't getting any mail and he had 7 no reason to suspect. He filed all properly, as 8 all good attorneys would do, and he thought he 9 was a member of the system, and he wasn't. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, oon 11 the bill. 12 Mr. President, I -- in an effort 13 to be humane, I will make my comments on this 14 bill and just continue what I've been doing in 15 voting no on these bills, but since I haven't 16 raised the issue before this year, in case there 17 are some new faces around that want to under 18 stand what I've been doing, this is just not our 19 job. 20 Senator Trunzo, I understand, has 21 a bill and I hear that explanation. I heard it 22 last year; I heard it the year before. It's in 23 negotiation. I think we got to negotiate harder. 3858 1 These are ridiculous decisions for us to have to 2 make. I have nothing against this gentleman and 3 if this gentleman, in fact, filed his paperwork 4 and if this gentleman, in fact, is entitled to a 5 pension, then the pension board, the retirement 6 system should have a method by which they can 7 correct clerical errors and by which they can 8 make these corrections, but I don't know these 9 people from a hole in the wall. I am not equip 10 ped to be a juror or a judge in these cases, and 11 it is absurd for the Legislature to, on an 12 individual basis, change people's pensions. 13 Now, there's no doubt in my mind, 14 as I say, I don't know this man so I'm not 15 labeling him in any way, but there is no doubt 16 in my mind that since we passed the first one of 17 these a year, two or three years ago, four years 18 ago, there has to be one of these along the way 19 where somebody had a brilliant idea of how they 20 can get a bigger pension. They spoke to a few 21 people in town because a lot of these towns are 22 one-party political towns, and the next thing 23 you know we've been flooded with them. Now, 3859 1 this year I haven't seen too many. Last year 2 was a disaster, but I think it's the wrong 3 floodgate to open up. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 5 Senator Farley. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Senator Gold, I 7 tend to agree with you in what you're saying, 8 that there should be a uniform bill to handle 9 this. But this is a dreadful inequity that has 10 happened and, unfortunately, this is the only 11 way we can address this situation. This is - 12 this is an inequity that is no fault of the 13 individual and he had no reason to know that and 14 it's a terrific loss to the -- to the person 15 and, consequently, this is what we have to do. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 17 yield to a question? 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in my 20 humble opinion -- I can't speak for anybody 21 else. In my humble opinion, Senator Farley, you 22 wouldn't know how to lie if there was money, all 23 right? You're an honest man, honorable man. 3860 1 You're an honorable man, but you and I weren't 2 there when this person signed on, we don't know 3 what was filed and not filed. We don't know why 4 his papers weren't transmitted in the normal 5 course with everybody else's and the answer is, 6 if he is entitled to it, let him get it. 7 So then let us go to the Speaker, 8 who is a compassionate, decent, kind man and 9 say, "Speaker, we shouldn't be in this 10 business." I don't think he enjoys it any more 11 -- any more than we do. I know the Governor 12 doesn't enjoy this kind of bill. So if we want 13 to help these people and other people, Senator, 14 let's pass Senator Trunzo's bill or some 15 amendment to it and set up a process whereby 16 people who, through no fault of their own, can 17 be taken care of if there's no injustice, but it 18 is -- it is absurd, Senator Farley; you know, in 19 the Congress very often they have investigations 20 of things that come before them. I know that 21 you and your staff didn't investigate this. I 22 don't expect you to. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: We have. 3861 1 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, did 2 you interview the witnesses? Do you know who the 3 people were? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I know the judge 5 quite well. 6 SENATOR GOLD: I know you know 7 the judge but did you speak with the clerks that 8 took his paperwork? Did you trace it through? 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, we have 10 talked to the city of Gloversville - 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, and you - 12 SENATOR FARLEY: -- and they 13 admit their error. It was an error. 14 SENATOR GOLD: And you conducted 15 a trial and you held a hearing on it? 16 SENATOR FARLEY: No, we have not 17 conducted a trial. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I don't expect you 19 to, but I do expect that if the law was properly 20 drawn, that the retirement system would have a 21 process and then it wouldn't be a question of 22 can David Jung, who is a judge, probably an 23 excellent judge and who knows Senator Farley and 3862 1 you know him, and so he gives a private law. 2 There are other people who don't 3 know Senators. There are other people who don't 4 know Assemblymen and who don't go through the 5 process and if we passed proper law, everybody 6 in the system, even the little person who is not 7 a lawyer, would have an opportunity to have his 8 errors rectified. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 10 Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Senator Gold, 12 this was investigated by the city of 13 Gloversville. They truly had an investigation, 14 I'm told. It is not a private bill for Judge 15 Jung. It was a bill requested by the city of 16 Gloversville. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: There 18 is a home rule message at the desk. Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 23 the roll. 3863 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 3 Results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 701 are Senators 6 Espada, Gold, Leichter and Santiago. 7 Ayes 52, nays 4. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 9 bill is passed. 10 Continue the calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 715, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 13 4998, Insurance Law, in relation to rate 14 changes. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Lay 17 aside. Lay it aside temporarily. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 733, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 20 3934, an act to amend the General Business Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3864 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 6 Results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 8 one, Senator Montgomery recorded in the 9 negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 741, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 14 4519, an act to amend the Executive Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 23 Results. 3865 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- excuse 5 me, ayes 55, nays - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Just - 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will Senator 8 Maltese yield to a question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 10 Senator, we're in the middle of a roll call. Do 11 you want the vote reconsidered? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: All 14 right. Withdraw the roll call. 15 Senator Maltese, will you yield? 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 18 appreciate that you say the intended purpose of 19 the bill is to reduce government costs. I just 20 question and wonder whether it may not actually 21 make expenditures by state agencies greater, 22 because it seems to me that, as you know, when 23 mail is sent out, it is sometimes sent out under 3866 1 Senate auspices working from computerized lists 2 and it's extremely difficult to review names on 3 computerized lists. 4 So I question whether there's 5 going to be any savings. I think there's just 6 going to be added expenses. I just wondered if 7 you'd comment. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 I think the legislation 11 contemplates the addition of one paragraph which 12 is spelled out in the legislation, which 13 indicates that the recipient can notify the 14 producer of the document to delete his name or 15 make a correction, and the addition of that 16 paragraph is an inconsequential de minimus at 17 the same time. 18 While there would be a cost in a 19 computer operator seeking out the individual's 20 name and address, in many cases it's simpler to 21 -- any of these computerized systems where you 22 only have to feed in the person's perhaps last 23 name and slight additional information to bring 3867 1 up the name, so I think especially in the case 2 of annual reports and this is the section - 3 this is what we're specifically aiming at, one 4 of the main offenders that we're aiming at, 5 these are usually bulky, lengthy articles and 6 the expense that would be saved by this 7 tightening cost, I think, is out of proportion 8 to the small amount of cost to include this 9 information. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 11 you would be good enough to continue to yield, 12 am I not correct that your bill would also apply 13 to the Legislature? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 15 Senator Maltese. 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: And would it 18 not be correct to say that newsletters that we 19 send out could be considered annual reports or 20 reports of similar publications? 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. - 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: And the rest 23 of my question is, would not your bill apply to 3868 1 newsletters sent out by the Senate? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 I don't believe they would come within the exact 4 letter of this legislation, but very frankly, I 5 don't feel that the addition of this wording 6 would in any way harm or impair the sending out 7 of our Legislative newsletters. I invite 8 Senator Leichter to use the terminology and I 9 would probably use the terminology myself on my 10 newsletters. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator 12 -- Senator, I appreciate your saying that you 13 probably will. Let me just point out because I 14 know it has happened, I am chagrinned that 15 occasionally one of my constituents will write 16 back and say, "Don't ever send me a damned news 17 letter again." So I go to the secretary's 18 office, and say, "Please take this guy off the 19 list." They say, "We can't do it," but I'll 20 tell you this, Senator, and it would apply 21 equally to me as it will apply to you, you put 22 that on your newsletter and you're going to get 23 hundreds of people who say, "I don't want to get 3869 1 your newsletter," because it happened to me too, 2 and it would seem to me that under this bill, if 3 it should become law, that clearly will be 4 required of us. Even if not required, as you 5 say, it would be the intent to put that on, 6 you're going to get thousands of these things 7 and we can't remove them, so I point out to you 8 that the bill might have some unintended 9 problems. 10 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 12 Senator Maltese. 13 SENATOR MALTESE: The benefit 14 would be intended, and I'll accept that as a 15 challenge and put the wording on my next 16 newsletter and see what happens. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section - 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 22 Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 3870 1 hope Senator Maltese puts it on his newsletter 2 and, Senator, I do not agree with Senator 3 Leichter. He is absolutely wrong. All you have 4 to do is have the printer deliver the letters to 5 you before they're put in the mail and Senator 6 Marino can give you a new staff member who, on 7 an hourly basis, can go through the 85,000 8 pieces and pick out the two people that you now 9 send it to, and I'm sure that will be a great 10 savings for the taxpayer because we're here to 11 protect the taxpayer and if those two people 12 don't want your newsletter, I think it's worth a 13 $30,000-a-year job to have a staff member to 14 pull those two people out. 15 Senator Leichter, shame on you! 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President, on the bill, just want to make sure I 22 understand it. Perhaps Senator Maltese can 23 clarify. Does this apply to newsletters coming 3871 1 from the Majority and Minority? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 it was not intended to apply to the state 4 Legislature in the term "annual report or 5 similar publication." I think it brings to mind 6 the Latin phrase expressio unius est exclusio 7 alterius, so since these were expressly 8 enumerated, it would seem to me that it would 9 not include our legislative newsletter. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President, just so that I understand it, is it 12 safe to say if it's a good idea for all the 13 other agencies in the state, that we should do 14 it here as well? Senator Leichter and I might 15 want to consider a similar bill, and I would 16 welcome your support for it for the 17 Legislature. 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 19 I certainly would consider it, and I would also 20 indicate, as I have said, that had there been an 21 attempt to reduce taxpayers' cost, I would use 22 it in my newsletter, and I would invite Senator 23 Dollinger and Senator Leichter to do the same. 3872 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would 2 certainly think about that. Through you, Mr. 3 President, another question. 4 What would happen if this isn't 5 done? Suppose some agency decides not to do it. 6 What's the enforcement mechanism under this 7 bill? 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 9 it would probably be to have all the reports 10 delivered to Senator Dollinger's office. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd point 12 out, Mr. Chairman, I think it's a good bill. I 13 think it's a good idea. I support the bill. I 14 hope you concur, if Senator Leichter and I can 15 draft bills which apply to us and which achieve 16 the same beneficial purpose, you might agree to 17 support them. 18 I do disagree with my colleague, 19 Senator Leichter that I think there will be 20 thousands of people who would write me a little 21 note back saying, "Don't bother to send it to me 22 the next time." 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 3873 1 the last section. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 3 just one more point in debate on this important 4 bill. I was initially going to vote against it 5 but I'm going to -- I think I'm going to change 6 my mind, based in part on something that I 7 thought I heard Senator Maltese say, which is 8 that in your next newsletter as an example to 9 all of us here, irrespective of whether this 10 bill covers the Legislature and irrespective of 11 whether the bill passes or not, you're going to 12 put one of these notices on your newsletter and, 13 Senator, may I also ask you, will you share that 14 information with us, because it may be a very 15 helpful guide for the rest of us. 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 18 Senator Markowitz. 19 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Just a 20 question of Senator Maltese. 21 How big will the type be on your 22 newsletter alerting the public? 23 SENATOR MALTESE: It will 3874 1 probably be as big as the type that you put on 2 yours, that it's not printed at government 3 expense. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 12 Results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Continue the calendar. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 788, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4867, 19 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3875 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Numnber 9 790 by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4940, 10 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Lay aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Lay 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 791, by Senator Saland. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Lay aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Laid 18 aside at the request of the sponsor. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 816, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 1156, 21 an act to amend the Executive Law and the Penal 22 Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 3876 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 2 Explanation. Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 819, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2288, 8 an act to amend the Correction Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 10 the last section. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 17 Senator Cook. 18 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 19 since the state facilities are going to pay 20 property taxes, obviously we have an inequity in 21 those fire districts in which prisons are 22 located, in that the local property taxpayers 23 have to provide the cost of fire protection and 3877 1 ambulance service for the prisons, and this bill 2 simply provides some small amount of revenue for 3 those fire districts and ambulance districts 4 providing the state would pay one dollar per 5 inmate toward the budgets of those local fire 6 protection and ambulance protection districts in 7 order to help compensate them for the coverage 8 that they provide. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 11 Senator Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 13 Senator Cook, this bill strikes 14 me as being somewhat greedy. Here -- here we 15 find members of the Majority try as hard as they 16 can to get a prison situated in their 17 communities because they provide jobs, and it's 18 unfortunate that that seems to be the economic 19 development for part of the state, but that's 20 where it is, so you -- you people who represent 21 the districts are delighted. You fight for 22 them, you hold up the budgets to get these 23 prisons. Then when you get them, you say, Oh, 3878 1 this is unfair. We're losing real estate taxes 2 and we're providing all these services. 3 Now, you got to pay us for these 4 services. 5 I don't think you can have it 6 both ways, Senator, but let me just say what 7 bothers me even more about the bill. It just 8 seems to me that we need a cogent uniform policy 9 throughout the state on whether or not we're 10 going to charge the state for services received 11 from the locality. I mean there's no sense 12 whatsoever just taking prisons. Why not take 13 state office buildings in the city of New York 14 or the city of Albany or the city of -- or the 15 city of Buffalo. 16 You remember -- I think you were 17 in the Assembly with me when we passed a bill 18 whereby the state was going to pay real estate 19 tax and the cost to the state was so enormous 20 every year we had to put off the effective date 21 and finally that bill was killed, that law was 22 killed. Maybe there ought to be a policy but if 23 there is a policy, it can't just be for 3879 1 prisons. That really doesn't make sense. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: All 3 right. Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 10 Results. (Long Pause) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 12 Results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 819 are Senators 15 Connor, Espada, Leichter, Montgomery and 16 Solomon. Ayes 51, nays 5. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 18 bill is passed. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 21 let's do some housekeeping and we'll adjourn. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 23 Senator Daly. 3880 1 SENATOR DALY: I laid aside 2 Calendar 831, Print Number 2200. I'd like to 3 withdraw my objection. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: You 5 had laid aside 831? 6 SENATOR DALY: I laid aside 831. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 8 Senator Tully, do you wish to take up that bill? 9 SENATOR TULLY: Yes. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 831, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes, 13 sir. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 831, by member of the Assembly Gottfried, 16 Assembly Bill Number 2200, Social Services Law, 17 in relation to payment of interest by providers 18 of medical assistance. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 3881 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 8 President. I wish to call up my bill, Senate 9 Print 3282-A, recalled from the Assembly which 10 is now at the desk. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 12 Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl, 14 Senate Bill Number 3282-A, an act to amend the 15 General Municipal Law. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 17 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 18 bill was passed. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Bill 20 is before the house. Call the roll on 21 reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration. ) 3882 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 3 bill is before the house. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 5 now offer up the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 7 Amendments are received. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr. 9 President, I wish to call up my bill, Senate 10 Print 2667, recalled from the Assembly which is 11 now at the desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl, 15 Senate Bill 2667, an act to amend the Navigation 16 Law. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 18 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 19 bill was passed. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Call the roll 21 on reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration. ) 3883 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 2 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 3 offer up the following amendments. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 5 Amendments are received. 6 Senator Daly. 7 SENATOR DALY: On page 29, 8 Calendar 731, Senate Print 3784, would you 9 please star that bill? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Bill 11 is starred. 12 SENATOR DALY: And Calendar 810, 13 Senate Print 4413, would you please strike the 14 enacting clause and recommit. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 16 Calendar 810? 17 SENATOR DALY: Calendar 810. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Print 19 Number 4413, bill is recommitted, enacting 20 clause stricken. 21 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 23 Senator Connor. 3884 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. I ask unanimous consent to be 3 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 813, 4 S. 3106. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 6 ordered. 7 Senator Espada. 8 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. I ask unanimous consent to be 10 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 817. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 12 ordered. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 15 Senator Johnson. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: I would request 17 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 18 affirmative on Calendar Number 847. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 20 ordered. Did you say "affirmative", Senator 21 Johnson? 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: In the 23 affirmative. 3885 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 2 Affirmative, yes. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, I'm 4 already recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 there being no further business - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 10 Senator Present, we have a report from a 11 standing committee. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 we have a report of the Rules Committee at the 14 desk. May we have it read? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 18 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 19 following bills directly for third reading: 20 Senate Bill 3940-B, by the 21 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 22 Senate Bill 4521, by Senator 23 Seward, an act to amend the Tax Law; 3886 1 Senate Bill 5690, by Senator 2 Skelos, an act to amend a chapter of the laws of 3 1993, proposing Legislative Bill Number A-4463. 4 All three bills reported directly 5 for third reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 7 Reported to third reading. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 there being no further business, I move we 11 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:30 a.m. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 13 ordered. 14 (Whereupon at 6:07 p.m., the 15 Senate adjourned. ) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23