Wednesday, June 16, 1993

5058 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 16, 1993 11 12:15 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 5059 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 3 will come to order. Senators will please find 4 their seats. 5 If you will please rise with me 6 for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 7 (Whereupon, Senate joined in the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 9 Today, we are pleased to have 10 with us for the opening prayer, the Reverend 11 Father Marcello Latone, pastor of the Holy 12 Trinity Church of Whitestone in Queens, New 13 York. 14 Father Latona. 15 REVEREND FATHER MARCELLO LATONA: 16 Almighty God, we bow our heads as we ask for 17 Your blessing. 18 Gracious creator God, guide and 19 inspire those whom you have entrusted for the 20 care, concern, and guidance of Your people. 21 We come to You from different 22 paths. Our ancestors have come from the four 23 corners of the earth. Although our paths may 5060 1 differ, our concern is one -- the welfare and 2 well-being of those who voted for, are 3 represented by and served by those who 4 constitute this great Senate. 5 In the name of the people of this 6 great state of New York, I implore you to shed 7 Your light when there is darkness, Your 8 understanding when there are conflicts, Your 9 wisdom when there is misunderstanding, and Your 10 way and Your truth in all the decision making 11 that takes place in this illustrious body. 12 Grace this gathering with Your 13 presence, keep them and their loved ones in Your 14 care, and help them to serve You by serving Your 15 people. May Your gracious blessing come upon 16 them and those they serve so that our journey in 17 Your presence will serve You well in securing 18 the present and insuring the future for those 19 who succeed them and those who follow us. 20 We ask this of You who live and 21 reign forever and ever. 22 Amen. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5061 1 Secretary will begin by reading the Journal. 2 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 3 Tuesday, June 15. The Senate met pursuant to 4 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, June 14, was 5 read and approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 7 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 8 read. 9 The order of business: 10 Presentation of petitions. 11 Messages from the Assembly. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of standing committees. 14 Reports of select committees. 15 Communications and reports of 16 state officers. 17 Motions and resolutions. 18 Senator Holland, I think you have 19 a motion. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. Mr. 21 President. On page 27, I offer the following 22 amendments to Calendar Number 1112, Senate Print 23 Number 2918A, and ask that said bill retain its 5062 1 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Amendments received. The bill will retain its 4 place. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 6 President. On behalf of myself, I would like to 7 remove a sponsor star, Calendar Number 648, 8 Senate Print 3283A. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 star is removed at the request of the sponsor. 11 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Present, we have a substitution. Secretary will 14 read it. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 31 of 16 today's calendar, Senator Libous moves to 17 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 18 Bill Number 7087 and substitute it for the 19 identical Third Reading 1144. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 5063 1 Let us take up the non-controversial calendar, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Non-controversial. The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 6 Calendar Number 539, by Senator Stachowski, 7 Senate Bill Number 1766B, authorizing the town 8 of Cheektowaga, county of Erie, to lease certain 9 park lands. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Stachowski has a home rule message here at the 12 desk. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 616, by Senator Bruno. 5064 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 2 Senator Leichter, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 4 that bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 617, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 4617A. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 9 that bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 710, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 5396, 12 an act to amend the Retirement and Social 13 Security Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5065 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 862, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3 4244A, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 4 and Rules. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31, nays 1, 13 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 982, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 18 5782, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 19 Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 21 is a home rule message here at the desk. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5066 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32, nays 1, 6 Senator Gold recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1000. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 12 for the day, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 14 aside for the day. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1013, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 17 736. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1031, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 23 4744, allowing Theodore Alibrandi, an employee 5067 1 of the city of Syracuse, to obtain retroactive 2 membership in Tier I. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 DeFrancisco has a home rule message here at the 5 desk. 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32, nays 1, 13 Senator Gold recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1059, by Senator Cook. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 19 Senator - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 21 aside. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Hold one second. 23 I'm sorry. 5068 1 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Cook has a home rule message at the desk. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1062, by Senator Daly. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1064, by Senator Sheffer. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 21 for the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside for today. 5069 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1065, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 17 - 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 4 please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 6 that bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1069. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1088. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 18 that bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1094, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5200, 21 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5070 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1096, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 12 5446. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 14 Senator Smith, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1100, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5786, 19 amends Chapter 380 of the Laws of 1992, amending 20 the General Municipal Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5071 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1101. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1107, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1313. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1109, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 21 2057, an act to amend the Executive Law and the 22 Social Services Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5072 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1110, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 12 2684, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1111, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 18 2820, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 19 Security Law, in relation to the earnings of 20 disability pensioners. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5073 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1113, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 10 2954B, authorize the town of Amenia, Dutchess 11 County, to sell certain lands. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There is 13 a home rule message here at the desk. 14 Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: 1114, by 5074 1 Senator - 2 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. Hold on. 3 Just hold on one second. 4 Keep going. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1114. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1114, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3024, 8 an act to amend the Local Finance Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read the 10 last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Aye 37. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The bill 18 is passed. 19 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Pataki. 22 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, I 23 request unanimous consent to be allowed to be 5075 1 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 2 1100, by Senator Levy. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Pataki will be in the negative on Calendar 5 Number 1100, without objection. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 8 would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 710. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Kuhl will be in the negative on calendar 710, 12 without objection. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1115, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 16 3265, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1116, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 23 3575A, Retirement and Social Security Law, in 5076 1 relation to community college support personnel. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1117, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 14 3576A, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 15 Security Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 5077 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1121, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 4295, 5 an act to amend the Penal Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1122, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 4305A, 18 an act to amend the Penal Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5078 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1123, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 8 4384A, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1124, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 21 4600A, proposing an amendment to the 22 Constitution. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5079 1 the roll on the resolution. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 5 resolution is adopted. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1126, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 8 4630, to provide retirement credit to Anthony A. 9 Tafuri. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1128, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 15 4829, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 16 Law, in relation to issuance of search warrants. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 19 that bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1129, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 22 4890A, amends Chapter 113 of the Laws of 1992. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5080 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1130, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 12 4891, an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation 13 to increasing the penalties for repeat 14 convictions. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42, nays - 23 ayes 41, nays 2. Senators Galiber and 5081 1 Leichter recorded in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1131, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 8 aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1133, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 11 5270, an act to amend the Executive Law, the 12 Criminal Procedure Law, and the Family Court 13 Act. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5082 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1134, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5359A, 3 authorize the payment of transportation aid to 4 the Roosevelt Union Free School District. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Levy has a local fiscal impact note here at the 7 desk. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1135, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5436, 19 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5083 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1136, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5437, 9 authorizing the assessor of the town of Babylon, 10 Suffolk County, to exempt from real property 11 tax the Long Island Partnership Housing 12 Development Fund. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5084 1 1138, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 2 5500, an act to amend the Family Court Act. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1139, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 15 5501, an act to amend the Domestic Relations 16 Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5085 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1, 2 Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 The bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1140, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 8 5540, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 9 Security Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 11 that bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1141, by Senator Saland. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 16 that bill aside for the day, Senator Present? 17 SENATOR PRESENT: For the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1142, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 20 5601A, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5086 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1143, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 5605, 10 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1147, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5806, 23 an act to amend the Tax Law. 5087 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 Number 1148, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill 13 Number 5812, an act to amend the Tax Law, in 14 relation to sales and use taxes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5088 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1150, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number - 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 5 for the day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 7 that bill aside for the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1151, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 5836, 10 an act to amend the County Law, in relation to 11 the power of the county of Westchester. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1152, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 5842, 5089 1 an act to amend the Local Finance Law, 2 authorizing the financing by the city of Utica. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Present, that's the first 14 time through. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 will you recognize Senator Sears, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Sears. 19 SENATOR SEARS: Mr. President, I 20 have a privileged resolution at the desk, 21 request that you read the same and move for its 22 immediate adoption. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5090 1 Secretary will read the title. 2 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 3 resolution, by Senator Sears, congratulating Mr. 4 and Mrs. Vincent J. Danes, upon the occasion of 5 their 50th wedding anniversary. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 7 favor of adopting the resolution, say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Those opposed, nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The resolution is adopted. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 will you recognize Senator Nozzolio, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. I have a privileged resolution at 19 the desk. I ask that it be read and adopted. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Secretary will read the title to Senator 22 Nozzolio's resolution. 23 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 5091 1 resolution, by Senator Nozzolio, commending 2 Vincent J. Scalise, Superintendent of Schools 3 for the Geneva School District, upon the 4 occasion of his retirement to be commemorated on 5 Saturday, June 19, 1993. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 7 those in favor of adopting the resolution, say 8 aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Those opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The resolution is adopted. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 will you recognize Senator Kuhl, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Kuhl. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 19 President. On behalf of Senator Daly, I believe 20 there is a privileged resolution at the desk. I 21 ask that the title be read and move for its 22 immediate adoption. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5092 1 Secretary will read Senator Daly's resolution. 2 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 3 resolution, by Senator Daly, memorializing the 4 distinguished life and career of the illustrious 5 Major General Peter Buehl Porter, Commander of 6 American forces along the Niagara Frontier 7 during the War of 1812. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 9 those in favor of adopting the resolution, say 10 aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Those opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 The resolution is adopted. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 can we go to controversial calendar, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Controversial. The Secretary will read the 22 controversial calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 11, 5093 1 Calendar Number 616, by Senator Bruno, Senate 2 Bill Number 4616A, Economic Development Law. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: What is the 7 calendar number? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6-1-6, 9 Calendar 616. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: What is 616? I 11 have it. Thank you. Who asked for an 12 explanation, Mr. President? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 14 it was Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Oh, a familiar 16 name. Senator, I welcome the opportunity to 17 revisit this issue with you, because this issue 18 was part of the very comprehensive regulatory 19 review that we did yesterday in this chamber 20 with the support of a lot of your colleagues, 21 and for good reason. 22 We have in this state several 23 hundred programs, agencies, offices, that are 5094 1 intended to help businesses in this state 2 function, progress, be successful. The problem 3 is many businesses don't even know that these 4 programs exist. They don't know how to access 5 them. They don't know what the criteria amounts 6 to. 7 And we in this house, the elected 8 representatives of those people, have no idea 9 how those programs are doing, whether they are 10 successful, whether they do anything, whether 11 they just occupy space. And, Senator Leichter, 12 I know that you would not like to have that 13 situation continue. 14 So what we attempt to do in this 15 legislation is create a private industry review 16 council. Now, these are private sector people, 17 non-paid from small, medium-sized businesses, 18 large businesses in this state, who are affected 19 by these programs or can be. 20 Their mission -- I get the 21 feeling that I'm talking to myself sometimes. 22 Their mission, Senator, is 23 two-fold. One is to take a look at these 5095 1 hundreds of programs that are available and make 2 recommendations on which should continue, which 3 should be discontinued, how they can be more 4 creative, how they can be more efficient. All 5 very worthwhile objectives. 6 The second part of the mission 7 would be that the largest agencies in DED, the 8 Department of Economic Development, like UDC, 9 Science and Technology Foundation, JDA, that 10 they themselves establish criteria, performance 11 goals and objectives, and then report 12 continually on how they are meeting those 13 objectives on whether or not they are serving a 14 constituency that they are supposed to serve, or 15 do some of these programs just exist to serve 16 themselves? 17 Very well intended legislation. 18 I am sure as you continue to study it, Senator, 19 that you will see the merit in supporting this 20 legislation. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Bruno. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Leichter, I presume. 5096 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 2 Thank you for your explanation. Would you be so 3 good as to yield to one or two questions? 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: And maybe I 6 could just preface it. Senator, in our 7 discussion yesterday -- and I acknowledge that 8 in a very comprehensive bill that there were 9 provisions that I thought made sense, but I 10 thought that the overall thrust was probably 11 mistaken and that you had thrown in everything 12 but the kitchen sink. I see you left the 13 kitchen for today. 14 But I don't mean to be critical 15 of your efforts, and I think some of it I 16 approve it. For instance, I think one of the 17 real problems we have in this state as far as 18 coordinating economic development, we've got 19 this agency, the Urban Development Corporation, 20 which is like a super government, without 21 controls. Some of your suggestions of trying to 22 bring them in under greater scrutiny and 23 supervision I think make a lot of sense. And 5097 1 I'd love to see a bill which was focused on 2 that, because I submit to you that the Urban 3 Development Corporation has wasted millions of 4 dollars and, in some instances, achieved 5 absolutely nothing. It's sort of the Governor's 6 own private economic development program or 7 agency. So I have no problem with that part of 8 it. 9 But I think you have aspects to 10 this which I think, at least as I see it, seem 11 to try to really undermine rulemaking powers. 12 You're essentially hostile, you and Senator 13 Wright, to any rulemaking and there is one 14 provision which has been called to my attention 15 which seems to be somewhat difficult, and I just 16 wonder if you would discuss it with us; and that 17 is, the effort to try to reach consensus on 18 rules and to permit the involvement of anybody 19 who would be significantly affected by the 20 rule. How would that work, Senator? 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator Leichter, 22 I know that we've been working late in this 23 chamber. I know that you probably were in here 5098 1 last night, and we are overworked and, 2 consequently, we should be mindful of that and 3 get some rest. But your question pertains to 4 the wrong bill, Senator. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: I thought so, 6 Senator, and that's why I called counsel over 7 because, frankly, I didn't see it in the bill, 8 either. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. It is not 10 in the bill, Senator, and I'd be happy to 11 discuss it with you. It's in Calendar 617, 12 which is negotiated rulemaking, that you are 13 looking at and you are referring to. And I hope 14 that's the next bill up and I would be happy to 15 discuss that with you. 16 On this bill, Senator, are you 17 satisfied that we're following the lead of your 18 President, who has performance planning taking 19 place with all of the governmental agencies at 20 the federal level, and we thought that was one 21 of the few good ideas that your President has 22 put Vice-President Gore in charge of, and we're 23 taking a page out of his book. And here it is 5099 1 in language right before you, giving you an 2 opportunity to do what has been done in Texas, 3 California already, and that your President 4 wants to do nationally, giving you an 5 opportunity to support here in this state. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, may I 7 just say, say nothing further because you will 8 probably convince me to vote against it. 9 But I think on this, since I was 10 a little ahead of myself and I was debating the 11 next bill, let's go to that bill and no problem 12 with this bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Montgomery. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Would 16 Senator Bruno agree to answer a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 18 you yield to Senator Montgomery, Senator Bruno? 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Senator, 20 with pleasure. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 22 Senator. Just one quick question. I don't see 23 in the bill -- but I may not be able to read 5100 1 quickly enough. I don't see the Port 2 Authority. Is there a reason why that would not 3 be included, or is it included and I'm missing 4 it? The Port Authority, as one of the economic 5 development agencies? 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, it is 7 not included because we have been trying to 8 focus on economic development and the Department 9 of Economic Development that has these hundreds 10 of programs out there. So we weren't looking at 11 all at the Port Authority, what they do and how 12 they function. So that is excluded from the 13 language of this legislation. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 15 Thank you, Senator. Just briefly on the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 17 bill, Senator Montgomery. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm very 19 happy to support this legislation. I think it 20 is probably well overdue, and I think Senator 21 Bruno is definitely on the right track. 22 I am very, very anxious to know 23 the outcome already. It is going to be so 5101 1 important in terms of planning, because I know 2 for sure that a couple of the agencies listed 3 here have not performed up to the expertise in 4 terms of jobs, job creation activities certainly 5 in my district in Brooklyn, and downstate in 6 general. So I welcome this. 7 I only would say that I wish that 8 we could have included the Port Authority, 9 because it is my understanding that the Port 10 Authority was created specifically to be an 11 engine to create jobs and as an economic 12 development operation in the state, authority in 13 the state of New York, and especially in New 14 York City in the New York City-New Jersey 15 region, and it has not performed up to its 16 mission. And, in fact, there have been a lot of 17 failures that we have seen within that agency 18 which has cost an awful lot of money which we 19 certainly need especially in the New York City 20 region. 21 So, Senator Bruno, I applaud you, 22 I'm supporting this legislation. My only 23 request would be that you would possibly amend 5102 1 it and include the Port Authority, because that 2 is a very critical economic development arm, as 3 well. 4 Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 Senator DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 17 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 18 affirmative on 1139. I misread one of the 19 bills, that bill in particular. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 DeFrancisco will be in the affirmative on 1139. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5103 1 Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 3 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 4 on Calendar 862, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 862, 6 Senator Leichter is in the negative. 7 The last bill is passed. 8 617. The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 617, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 4617A, 11 an act to amend the State Administrative 12 Procedure Act. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 14 would Senator Bruno yield? 15 Senator, you have sort of given 16 an explanation, and I think we've had a number 17 of commercials for your bills, and I think we 18 understands all of the things you promised that 19 your bills are going to do. 20 And as you see, we all supported 21 the last bill, Senator. We do try to look at 22 them carefully, and we know that you present 23 these with a good faith effort, if not always I 5104 1 think well-directed. 2 But I'm particularly concerned in 3 this bill where you provide for consensus 4 rulemaking, negotiated rulemaking. Am I correct 5 that anybody who is significantly affected by a 6 rule can ask for the procedure of negotiation 7 with the agency that's promulgating the rules? 8 SENATOR BRUNO: That is correct, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. And 11 that procedure requires the agency to make 12 publication to set up a committee. I believe 13 you even require to seek mediation under some 14 circumstances with a professional firm or firms 15 engaged in the business of alternative dispute 16 resolution. Is that correct? 17 SENATOR BRUNO: That is correct, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator, 20 does that mean that in every rule, that until - 21 or in every instance where an agency seeks to 22 promulgate a rule, whether it's in the 23 environment, whether it's in transportation so 5105 1 on, say one individual who is significantly 2 affected can require the agency to go through 3 this somewhat cumbersome procedure? 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, the 5 answer to your question is yes, and I might help 6 some of the people in this chamber. I know you 7 understand this bill, but some of the others 8 might not. 9 The Governor presently has a 10 negotiated rulemaking system in place in this 11 state. But he did it through his executive 12 order. But his program is flawed, and you will 13 understand why. 14 If an affected party by a reg 15 wants to negotiate that reg or have some input 16 they appeal to the agency. The agency sets up 17 one of their own as a hearing officer, and then 18 the affected party goes in and discusses this 19 rule with the agency within the agency, and they 20 make a determination. 21 Now, what we're doing differently 22 is, we're saying that we all recognize that the 23 businesses in this state are overregulated. 5106 1 Consequently, any new regulation or any 2 substantial revision in any regulation that 3 exists, a notice goes out through the Office of 4 Business Permits to the affected parties giving 5 them an opportunity to respond and request a 6 meeting or meetings to discuss the proposed 7 rule. 8 Now, what's different is it's not 9 the agency that is doing this objectively. It's 10 the Office of Business Permits. They will set 11 up an arbitrator from an independent group of 12 arbitrators that they will counsel with, and 13 that person will be the facilitator and will be 14 the referee. 15 And if there is a consensus of 16 two-thirds of the people that are negotiating, 17 well, then, the rule goes forward. If not, then 18 the arbitrator or facilitator can make a 19 judgment on whether or not those that are to be 20 affected have a legitimate case and can 21 recommend that it not happen as proposed by the 22 agency. 23 So the objective is to create a 5107 1 discussion, to create conversation rather than 2 having the agencies continually dictate what is 3 best for a business in this state. And the 4 result has been, as we talked about yesterday, 5 that 72 percent of the businesses in this state 6 feel that we in government are hostile to them. 7 Now, that's a tragic situation, but we have been 8 hostile to them. 9 So we are now, because we can't 10 retroactively correct what we've done to 11 businesses for the last 100 years, as we go 12 forward, we are trying to give businesses a 13 chance to discuss regulations that are going to 14 affect them in some negative way, before it 15 happens. 16 And that's the intent of this 17 legislation, and I hope I have been helpful in 18 this rather lengthy explanation. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Bruno, 20 you are always helpful, and I thank you. 21 Mr. President. On the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 23 bill. Senator Leichter. 5108 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: You know, the 2 problem is that the aims and purposes of Senator 3 Bruno's bills and the actual content really are 4 not in conformity. They don't meet. 5 I think all of us want this state 6 to be business friendly, to be helpful to 7 business. But at the same time, we want to 8 protect the people of this state, to see that 9 the environment is a friendly environment. We 10 want to improve the quality of life, and we want 11 to see that business is conducted in such a way 12 that consumers and other businesses are 13 protected in various areas. And as a 14 consequence, we have of necessity agencies that 15 make rules. 16 Now, we don't want agencies to 17 make rules in an arbitrary manner, so we have a 18 big chapter of the laws that's called the 19 Administrative Procedure Act that requires 20 hearings and that tries to put in an element of 21 due process. What the Governor did, in 22 addition, is he set up a system where under some 23 circumstances, you can have negotiations to 5109 1 provide even more public input. 2 Now, that procedure, I'm sure, 3 could be improved in various respects, and if 4 Senator Bruno puts forth a bill that targets 5 that, that does this in an understandable, in a 6 directed fashion, I'm sure there would be a lot 7 of support. I would certainly support it. 8 But you, Senator Bruno, as you do 9 at times, you go far beyond that. And what 10 you've ended up with is really a frontal attack 11 on the whole system of rulemaking because, as I 12 said, essentially you are hostile to 13 rulemaking. You forget about the environment. 14 You forget about consumers. You forget about 15 having a level playing field for business. And 16 you become so focused on trying to assist 17 certain businesses that you really forget the 18 public interest. 19 And the difference between what 20 you do in this bill and what we have presently 21 is - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Bruno, why do you rise? 5110 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can I just 2 finish this point, Senator Bruno? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: He 4 doesn't care to yield. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 6 President. Thank you. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: And the 8 difference is that you mandate an extremely 9 cumbersome procedure that can be triggered by 10 any one individual saying, "I am significantly 11 affected." You then put the whole rulemaking on 12 hold. You delay it. You frustrate it. You 13 require it to go through an extensive 14 procedure. That is unjustified when the 15 individual or individuals may have really a 16 frivolous objection. But under your bill, if 17 they have a significant interest, they have an 18 absolute right to do this. 19 The Governor's system, as I 20 understand it, and I have just a passing 21 acquaintance with it, allows for some judgment 22 to be made whether it makes sense. You can't in 23 every instance require agencies to go through 5111 1 this procedure without having some way of 2 determining whether that one individual, 3 significantly affected, has a valid ground. And 4 mind you, he's already had a chance at public 5 hearings and so on. 6 Now I will yield. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Now, he 9 will yield. Senator Bruno. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator, I 11 appreciate what you are saying and, sincerely, I 12 appreciate your concern for the public and 13 protecting the public. But I also have a 14 concern that there is not a full understanding 15 of this legislation, and I think some of your 16 comments are going to confuse our colleagues and 17 I know that you don't want to do that. 18 Because what I'm hearing you say 19 puts you in agreement with what we're doing, and 20 yet you say I'm not acting in the public's best 21 interest because I am too broad. 22 Number one, Senator, question for 23 you. Do you understand that consumers, 5112 1 environmentalists also can appeal in this 2 negotiated rulemaking and be represented because 3 they are an affected party? Do you know that, 4 Senator? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, my 6 point was that when you say anybody who is 7 significantly affected, that's the whole 8 universe in many of these rules. It's extremely 9 broad. That's precisely the problem, Senator. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: But, Senator, do 11 you also understand that it's the Office of 12 Business Permits and Regulatory Assistance that 13 will make a judgment on whether or not a 14 petitioner is frivolous, whether they are a 15 significant party, whether they are truly 16 affected? The Office of Business Permits is an 17 agency of government. It's an agency of the 18 executive branch of this government. 19 And, Senator, do you think that 20 they exist to serve the public or to, in some 21 way, be disruptive? We think that they are 22 there to serve the public, Senator. They make 23 the judgment on all these frivolous things that 5113 1 you are referring to. They then say, "Yes, you 2 are the petitioner, you are seriously affected 3 and you should have a hearing." Nothing 4 cumbersome about it, nothing expensive about 5 it. The people even have to pay a fee if they 6 want to be on the committee. 7 And, Senator Montgomery, I know 8 you would be interested in this. They pay a fee 9 of $100 to be represented on this committee for 10 discussion. Why? To know that they are serious, 11 and that they are not just going to waste 12 people's time. Now, you can beat that if people 13 are -- several of them are paying $100 for the 14 privilege of discussing something that's going 15 to affect them that they are serious. 16 But as an additional safeguard, 17 the facilitator can also say, "You are not ser 18 iously affected; take a hike or take a walk." 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator, 20 you miss the point. You miss the point. The 21 point isn't that that person is significantly 22 affected. I acknowledge that the person is 23 significantly affected. What the point is, does 5114 1 that person have a valid objection, prima facie 2 valid objection? 3 You don't give the Office of 4 facilitator -- I'm sorry -- of Business Permits 5 any power other than to determine if the person 6 is significantly affected. As I read your 7 Section 253, it's on page 2, the bottom of the 8 page, line 56. Starting line 53, it says, "... 9 negotiated rulemaking required upon receipt by 10 the office of a request for negotiated 11 rulemaking received from a person whose 12 interests are determined by the office to be 13 substantially affected by such rule or 14 revision." 15 But the point you've got to look 16 at, does that person really have a valid 17 objection? Does he have some suggestion as to 18 how the rule could be modified or eliminated? 19 That you don't provide for. Once 20 that person is significantly affected -- for 21 instance, if you have a rule on the environment 22 affecting clean air, every member here, every 23 citizen of the state of New York could require 5115 1 that you go through that expensive rulemaking 2 because we're obviously all affected, 3 significantly affected by the air we breathe. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Sure, Senator, if 7 those people wanted to pay $100 and be involved 8 in that committee, the facilitator would make a 9 judgment. If 100 people apply, the facilitator 10 would choose three, four, five of those people 11 that would be representative of the group. 12 Senator, really, there isn't 13 anything cumbersome about this. It's very 14 workable. Again, I just share with you that a 15 lot of what we're talking about here has been 16 adopted in other states. 17 David Osborne, I know you read 18 his book Re-inventing Government, as most of us 19 have in this room. Governor Cuomo has certainly 20 read it, because he is moving forward with 21 quality improvements in state government to his 22 credit. I've participated in some of those 23 programs. 5116 1 All this does is follow improving 2 the quality of life for businesses in this 3 state. So all of these ghosts and all of these 4 spirits and all of these circumstances that you 5 are describing are all ghosts. They are not in 6 this bill. 7 The Governor's proposal just to 8 conclude this -- the Governor's proposal as it 9 exists, when you get all through with the whole 10 process, the agency walks away and doesn't have 11 to implement any piece of it -- implement none 12 of it. That doesn't seem to make sense. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, maybe 14 on that you're right that we ought to have some 15 other procedure. There is, of course. You can 16 always go to court, and so on. 17 But I point out I think maybe you 18 and I have really defined certainly the main 19 disagreement we have. You would require this 20 extensive, expensive procedure by anybody who is 21 determined to be significantly affected 22 irrespective of how valid their objections might 23 be. So somebody says, "Well, you have clean air 5117 1 regulations," could be an environmentalist, "but 2 you have not made the air 100 percent clear," 3 you would have -- that person could force DEC or 4 whoever issues that regulation to go through 5 this extensive procedure. It really makes 6 absolutely no sense. 7 And what we have here I'm afraid 8 is a very simplistic approach which, frankly, 9 often characterizes the proposals by the 10 Majority. I thought yesterday afterwards about 11 the debate that we had and the program that you 12 presented. And I said, you know, that program, 13 I've heard it, I've seen it. I think we 14 characterized it fairly adequately, but we 15 should have been able to point out and maybe 16 more clearly what that program was. 17 I realized what it was. That was 18 the old Ronald Reagan program. You cut taxes. 19 You came up with funny money, and you 20 deregulated. It's the same thing. One can say 21 to you as one said about the Kings of France, 22 the Bourbons, "They have learned nothing, and 23 they have forgotten nothing." The very same 5118 1 prescription that brought this country to the 2 economic catastrophe that we find ourselves in 3 now, the economic hangover. We're left with an 4 enormous deficit, and the scandals that were 5 caused by the deregulation. 6 Senator, you just can't do it 7 with this sort of meat axe approach, and I think 8 somebody with your intelligence if you focused 9 on it you probably could improve the Governor's 10 practice but what you have done here is to let 11 anybody in the state on almost every rule to 12 come and say, "I'm significantly affected." 13 Now, go ahead, set up the committee. You got to 14 hire private firms. You've got to publish in 15 trade papers. There is an enormous expense to 16 all of this. 17 What have you accomplished? You 18 have delayed, you've frustrated rulemaking which 19 is really what you are about. I think it's a 20 bad idea. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Gold. 5119 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 2 President. Nice to see you, sir. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Nice to 4 see you. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Leichter, 6 I have heard this. Maybe I'm closer to Senator 7 Bruno, but I don't think you are getting what he 8 is saying. 9 Don't you understand if somebody 10 wants to get involved with this and they hire 11 their $15,000 law firm lobbyist or $20,000 law 12 firm lobbyist to take a look and the lobbying 13 firm then reports to them that they got to put 14 up $100, they may not want to go into this. I 15 mean they have already spent 15,000 or 20,000. 16 We have a system whereby we have 17 been giving authority to agencies to do 18 rulemaking. Now, Senator Bruno, I can't blame 19 you for a lot of that rulemaking because you are 20 new to the house. Some people have been here as 21 long as fifteen years. 22 Oh, he's been here fifteen years. 23 Oh, you have here fifteen 5120 1 years. 2 Well, for fifteen years, Senator 3 Bruno, you have been part of a process that 4 gives the agencies this power, and part of that 5 power is that they are going to regulate, and 6 the big difference between what you are saying 7 and what the Governor is saying is like the 8 Grand Canyon. 9 It is the agency that has the 10 power. It is their responsibility. If they are 11 overregulating, Senator, then I suggest to our 12 Administrative Regulations Review Commission or 13 any other way you think we get rid of the bad 14 regulation. But you don't set up a roadblock to 15 new regulations which may be needed and which 16 may be good. 17 The issue here is not the number 18 of regulations. It's whether they are good or 19 bad. So let's get rid of those which are over 20 regulation and which are bad but not put 21 roadblocks in the way of the good ones. 22 And in terms of the public input, 23 the reason why the Governor's system makes 5121 1 sense, Senator Bruno, is that it opens the door 2 for people to participate and make sure that 3 they have some avenue by which their views can 4 be put forth. 5 But when you say, after that, the 6 agency can do what it wants to do, yes, they are 7 the ones that have the legal power. What you 8 are doing, Senator, is a huge jump in 9 governmental philosophy and I think even more so 10 than what Senator Leichter very, very well 11 pointed out. 12 The legislative power under the 13 Constitution is in this body and in the 14 Assembly. The Constitution says we may in 15 certain defined situations create rulemaking 16 authority in the agency. Nowhere in the 17 Constitution does it say that we may then set up 18 a system where members of the public by filing 19 $100 can get involved in what is actually a law 20 making process and override it. 21 It makes no sense. It is a huge 22 huge stretch of giving of legislative 23 governmental authority, and I think that it is a 5122 1 bad precedent. 2 I will close by pointing out what 3 Senator Leichter pointed out when he stood up to 4 begin with. On your prior bill, Senator, we all 5 voted for it. We are not against the concept of 6 allowing business to properly operate and to 7 have the agencies have some reins on them. But 8 the process you are setting up here I think 9 first of all is illegal constitutionally, but 10 even if it wasn't, it makes no sense. 11 The public should have input. 12 You should always cherish the opinion of a 13 constituent or a member of the public be it a 14 business or an individual, but you don't use 15 that as a cop-out to the authority necessary by 16 an agency in order to do rulemaking. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5123 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 2, 2 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1013, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 736, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 13 Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 15 this bill is known as "Learn Fare" and is 16 modeled after similar programs in Wisconsin, 17 Michigan and Ohio, and a similar program also 18 has been endorsed or suggested by the Governor. 19 It is a three-year demonstration 20 project establishing educational requirements 21 for public assistance payments, in order to 22 receive public assistance payments. It really 23 is to keep young people in school. 5124 1 People receiving public 2 assistance who are under 20 years of age who are 3 parents or who are residing with a natural or 4 adoptive parent and who have not graduated from 5 high school or received a GED would be required 6 to attend school. 7 The demonstration project would 8 be established in not more than fifteen school 9 districts. Children who have ten or more full 10 days of unexcused absence from school during the 11 most recent completed school semester would be 12 warned and placed on review on a monthly basis. 13 If non-compliance continues, the child will be 14 removed from the AFDC rolls or other public 15 assistance grants in the next possible payment 16 month. 17 The purpose of the bill I think 18 goes without saying. Some of the school dis 19 tricts in the city of New York have dropout 20 rates of up to 30 percent, and this is to en 21 courage young people to finish their education. 22 It is not a punishment. It is to encourage 23 young people to finish their education, to 5125 1 reduce welfare dependency and to prepare young 2 people to live and work in this society and be 3 educated enough to take care of their families. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Gold. 6 Senator Present, why do you 7 rise? 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 can we have the last section of this bill read, 10 allow Senator Maltese to vote? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do 16 you vote, Senator Maltese? 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I what? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Close 20 the roll call. 21 Senator Gold, I think you have 22 the floor. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, thank you. 5126 1 Yes, I yield to Senator Hoffmann. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 3 President. We have been around the barn on this 4 bill a couple of times. This is the bill that 5 is based on the premise that somehow school 6 children can be forced to attend a school more 7 frequently if food is taken off the family 8 table. There is no logic in that in my mind. 9 There is no logic in many of the minds of my 10 constituents with whom I have spoken on this 11 subject. 12 I don't want to take too much of 13 our time today to go back over the details on 14 this bill. This is another example of poor 15 bashing. This is one of those clever little 16 gimmicks that allows some people in government 17 to claim that they are doing something in the 18 best interests of the taxpayers by getting tough 19 with people who allegedly abuse the system. 20 In this case, those alleged 21 abuses are poor school attendance by school age 22 students, and the punishment makes absolutely no 23 sense because it simply does not fit the crime. 5127 1 We're not dealing with academic discipline 2 here. We're dealing with nutrition. 3 And it flies in the face of the 4 real problem we have, which is that many of 5 these students who are truants or who have a 6 poor attendance record are in single-family 7 homes, and instead of providing additional 8 support for those families who are in most 9 instances single mothers -- not single fathers, 10 but single mothers. Instead of providing 11 support, instead of recognizing the flaw in that 12 family structure, we are instead making it 13 tougher for those families to raise those 14 children. 15 What mother of any economic 16 background would say to three or four children, 17 "I can only feed three of you tonight because 18 the food allowance has been cut, and Johnny here 19 is not entitled to eat at this table any more?"? 20 I ask you. Is there anyone here 21 who thinks that makes even a little bit of 22 sense? But that is what this bill would do if 23 it was passed. 5128 1 I certainly intend to vote no, 2 and I do not intend to stop speaking about the 3 absurdity of this measure and, more importantly, 4 how it represents a very serious flaw in the way 5 we approach our responsibility to address the 6 problems of poverty and the need for improved 7 social structure and enhancements in this state. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 Oh, Senator Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, I 12 cannot let the opportunity go by and not speak 13 to this matter of -- I was a teen-age father at 14 the age of 17, and I was on public assistance at 15 the same time, teen parent, and I had to face 16 the realities that this legislation allegedly 17 speaks to. 18 And to condition a benefit on 19 attendance. There was nothing more that I 20 wanted to do than to attend school, but the 21 pressures that led to me being a teen parent, 22 the pressures that kept me away from school at 23 the time had nothing to do with sanctioning me 5129 1 for not going to school. 2 They wouldn't have gotten me to 3 the school. They wouldn't have put me into a 4 better relationship with my parents. They 5 wouldn't have jump-started me out of poverty or 6 into being a responsible parent. 7 And I concur wholeheartedly with 8 Senator Hoffmann that, in fact, if we really 9 want a true, a real, a positive and progressive 10 focus on poverty, the causes of poverty, the 11 causes of dropout, teen parenting and the like, 12 let's take this more seriously than introducing 13 legislation like this. 14 I am personally taken aback by it 15 and would encourage all people of conscience, 16 all people that really want to deal with the 17 realities of these problems, to vote against it. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Montgomery. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 I just want to speak briefly to 23 this bill. I think we've had this legislation 5130 1 before us in the past, and it's very unfortunate 2 that, while I understand the intent of it which 3 is very admirable, I think the problem is that 4 as Senator Hoffmann has so eloquently stated in 5 her comments that we are punishing the victim 6 again and, moreover, victims who are most 7 vulnerable, and those are children and parents, 8 primarily single parents, which is what the 9 group that you would be targeting with this is. 10 And let me just say that there 11 have been experiments with this kind of program, 12 Senator, and the problem with it is, Mr. 13 President, that it doesn't work; and, in fact, 14 there is not an incentive, and since there is 15 not an incentive but rather a punishment, it 16 does not work to improve the number of days that 17 a student actually goes to school. 18 And so you are going to be 19 hurting families in an attempt to force them to 20 -- I believe you include utilize health 21 facilities as well as attend school, and if they 22 -- and you want them to do that. But since you 23 are punishing them rather than providing an 5131 1 incentive for doing it, it does not work. It's 2 negative reinforcement, and so it has not been 3 successful. It will not work in this instance. 4 And I dare say that I have been 5 noticing recently on the talk shoes that I see 6 more and more of these days that one of the 7 largest issues for families in this country, 8 families across the board of all groups, races, 9 colors, religious and otherwise groups, are 10 experiencing an extreme pressure from problems 11 related to child rearing. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Holland, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: I wonder if the 15 Senator would yield to a question? 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator, may I 17 interrupt a moment? 18 May I have the last section read 19 again and allow Senator LaValle to vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section for Senator LaValle. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5132 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 LaValle, how do you vote? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Close 5 the roll. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Holland, I believe you were asking a question of 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: I just wonder 11 if the Senator will yield to a question? 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I will 13 yield. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, I 15 think you are confusing two separate bills, this 16 bill and the Maryland bill that we have also 17 introduced. The Maryland bill says, in effect, 18 that there will be a carrot and a stick for 19 payments going to Medicaid, for prenatal care, 20 et cetera, et cetera. 21 My question to you is, then, will 22 you support a bill of that nature? Because that 23 bill is on the calendar also. 5133 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: In other 2 words, I'm confusing another bill with this 3 bill. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: The Maryland 5 proposal gives penalties for not going to school 6 but also $25 a month for making some 7 requirements, some $25 a month I think for going 8 to prenatal care and that type of thing. It has 9 a carrot and a stick proposal. 10 And my question to you is will 11 you support -- if you won't support this bill, 12 will you support that kind of bill? 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I support 14 the carrot side of it, but I don't support the 15 stick side, if you will, Senator. 16 But let me just continue, and I 17 apologize for confusing the other bill with this 18 one. 19 But what is clear to people in 20 this country is that families are really 21 suffering under an extreme amount of pressure as 22 it relates to child rearing, especially 23 teenagers, and some states have tried many 5134 1 different versions of this bill, namely, to 2 punish parents when teenagers don't go to 3 school, make them pay fines, make them 4 responsible for the fact that their children 5 don't attend school. 6 I think in Connecticut there is 7 some sort of experiment going on, in some other 8 states. And what has happened is in some 9 instances where parents lose the ability to 10 maintain complete control of their youngsters 11 especially as it relates to making them go to 12 school, they have to give up custody of their 13 children in order to keep themselves from going 14 to jail and not being able to support the other 15 siblings in the home or to support themselves 16 and what have you. 17 So this, clearly, is a very 18 critical period in the social development and 19 fiber of our nation and particularly for 20 families, and I don't think that we in this 21 state want to keep going in the direction of 22 penalizing, punishing families, punishing 23 parents for what they may not have rather than 5135 1 trying to figure out how we can give them 2 support in helping them work with their own 3 children and get them through school, and these 4 are not only just welfare families, but I'm 5 talking about families across the board, working 6 families included. 7 So, Senator, certainly -- you 8 know, we don't want to send that signal to any 9 family in this state, but certainly you don't 10 want to further jeopardize the stability of a 11 poor family by doing such legislation as this. 12 So I would hope you would rethink 13 it, make it more a carrot than a stick, which 14 this is, and give it more -- more real mission 15 in terms of helping families as opposed to 16 penalizing them. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Nozzolio. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 21 President. I rise in support of this 22 legislation and ask to speak on its behalf. 23 I ask my colleagues, particularly 5136 1 those who have risen in opposition to this bill, 2 the simple question of what incentive does any 3 family, particularly a poor family, a poor 4 family not on welfare, what incentive does that 5 poor family have to see that their children go 6 to school? 7 I think they have a tremendous 8 incentive, an incentive that says my child goes 9 to school, my child will have an opportunity to 10 benefit themselves and their families in the 11 future; that my child will be able to have a 12 better life than I have; that my child will be 13 able to progress in society to get a good job 14 after getting a good education and be a 15 productive member of society, a productive 16 member that everyone could be proud of. That is 17 an important incentive. 18 I don't believe that this is a 19 poor-bashing proposal. On the contrary, this is 20 a proposal that will help instill 21 responsibility, will help instill a motivation, 22 however small that motivation may be in terms of 23 benefit but may turn the tide in some families 5137 1 across the state and encourage those families to 2 say, yes, my children must go to school, my 3 children must receive a high school education in 4 order to succeed. 5 It's not often that I quote 6 Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, but a member of 7 your party, of those who have opposed this 8 measure so far, has gone so far as to say that 9 anyone to receive any public assistance benefit 10 should first receive a high school equivalency 11 diploma. That should be a requisite for 12 receiving welfare assistance. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Senator, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR WALDON: Will the learned 17 gentleman yield to a question or two? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 19 you yield, Senator Nozzolio? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I will be 21 happy to yield to Senator Waldon. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 23 Senator. Mr. President, would the gentleman 5138 1 tell me what type of action would be required 2 and mandated under this bill for those who have 3 been tracked into special education, for those 4 who, due to poor nutrition, due to the fact that 5 they were shunted back and forth between various 6 and sundry foster home situations, do not have 7 the capacity to even acquire a GED education let 8 alone a regular high school education? Senator, 9 what would you do with those children? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm 11 sure you are aware that children today receive 12 discounted breakfasts and lunches in school, 13 that schools have been, if anything, 14 replacements for parents, replacement for 15 parental responsibility in increasing manner for 16 the last twenty years; and that, in fact, having 17 the child go to school may in fact resolve those 18 nutritional problems that you address. 19 SENATOR WALDON: May I ask the 20 gentleman a question again? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Nozzolio, will you yield? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 5139 1 President. 2 SENATOR WALDON: With all due 3 respect, Senator, I don't think you really 4 responded to the question, but may I ask you, 5 Have you ever to places like the Hotel 6 Martinique in Manhattan, a single room occupancy 7 which is no longer in existence but was a single 8 room occupancy which was in existence within the 9 last twenty years, I may even say the last six 10 or seven years? Have you ever been to such an 11 establishment where these welfare children are 12 shunted back and forth? 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, no, I 14 have not been at the place you describe. 15 SENATOR WALDON: In your 16 statement just now about children --if I may 17 continue, Mr. President? May I continue? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 19 You have another question I presume. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, sir. Thank 21 you. In your statement, moments ago, Senator, 22 you said that attending school would allow 23 children to have a nutritional breakfast and/or 5140 1 other foodstuffs. Does that statement imply 2 that every child who is living in the city of 3 New York who may be physically near a school and 4 who attends that school will always receive a 5 nutritional breakfast or a nutritional lunch? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I have just 7 been advised by counsel, and not being a 8 representative of New York City, but understand 9 that there is mandated by this government free 10 lunch and breakfast in New York City schools. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Last question. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Waldon. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 15 if I may, last question. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 17 you yield for another question, Senator 18 Nozzolio? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Of course, Mr. 20 President. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I can 22 see -- if I can make this comment before the 23 question. I can see that your experiences are 5141 1 far different from the experiences that I have 2 and the information that I receive from my 3 constituency, and that's understandable because 4 you represent an area, a fine area upstate, and 5 I represent an area that's downstate. 6 Would you, would you personally 7 entertain the idea of coming to the city of New 8 York as your schedule permits to view first hand 9 the schools that you are speaking so 10 definitively about so that your information base 11 may be improved? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly, 13 Senator, I would welcome -- as all our Senators 14 know that we represent a very broad, diverse 15 state, and that I would welcome any type of 16 information that I could gain from attendance at 17 one of the facilities you mention. And let's 18 discuss scheduling that some time this year. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. President. Thank you for yielding, 21 Senator. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Nozzolio, you have the floor. 5142 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I am not familiar with every 4 corner of this state, but I am familiar with 5 what it's like to grow up in a family who did 6 not receive the benefit of a high school 7 education. I stand here proudly as myself the 8 product of parents neither of whom were able to 9 go through and receive their high school 10 education. 11 However, what I am familiar with 12 is the parental responsibility that parents take 13 in ensuring that their children go to school. 14 And that's what this bill is all about, parents 15 ensuring that their children go to school. 16 It's not poor bashing. It's only 17 responsible conduct. It's the only responsible 18 conduct that is going to break the generational 19 cycle of welfare, and every Senator, every 20 legislator needs to understand that. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. I 22 support the measure. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5143 1 Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, would the sponsor of this rise to 4 yield to a question? 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Holland, will you yield to Senator Dollinger? 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 10 read the memorandum on this bill. I'm just 11 wondering. How big a problem is this in New 12 York State? Do you know how many kids would be 13 affected by this? Do we have any idea? 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't have 15 the -- this is a demonstration grant. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand 17 that, and, frankly, that's going to be a big 18 factor on how I come out on this, but I'm just 19 intrigued. Do you know how many people would be 20 impacted? 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: I can't answer 22 your question with a number of people, but let 23 me reiterate again that Medicaid and welfare is 5144 1 $22 billion of our $60 billion budget. It's a 2 serious problem, and we're not again trying to 3 punish people. 4 I can't understand why a mother 5 or a father would stand up and say I shouldn't 6 be required to try to make my child to go to 7 school, because we have been living in a 8 difficult time, because we didn't have the 9 necessary education. I want my child to go to 10 school so he and she doesn't have to do that in 11 the future. I can't understand that kind of 12 logic. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Let me 14 just ask a couple of questions because I'm 15 trying to make sure I understand it. I 16 understand it is a demonstration grant and, 17 therefore, there would only be fifteen school 18 districts other than the city of New York. 19 That's correct? 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If we did it 22 statewide, if we forgot it was a demonstration 23 project and instead did it statewide, how many 5145 1 children or how many families do you think it 2 would impact? Are there any estimates? 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm sorry, I 4 don't know the answer to that question. I can 5 probably get it for you, but I don't have it 6 right here. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. The 8 other question I have -- and I'm just reading 9 from the summary of the provision. Does it 10 simply require -- excuse me. Mr. President. 11 (Whereupon, Senator Volker was in 12 the chair. ) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 14 continues to yield. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does it 16 simply require the child to attend school, or to 17 continue to progress through school? 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: It simply 19 requires the child to attend school and not miss 20 more than ten full days during a semester, 21 during the period of 10 to 20 years of age. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, 23 conceivably, a child could go to school and not 5146 1 progress. Just show up in school, stay in the 2 fifth grade and not get through the system? 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: That is 4 possible, but I believe that's better than 5 having them hang out on the corner; and by 6 osmosis, they are going to pick up something. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. The 8 other question is, what's the -- again, through 9 you, Mr. President. What's the age at which 10 that obligation to continue to go to school 11 would end? 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: 19. At the age 13 20, you wouldn't have to go any more. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Let me just 15 ask. Why would you set it at age 20 when we, I 16 think, only require children by law in this 17 state to go to school until they're 16? Isn't 18 that correct? 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, I believe 20 that is true. Yes, that is true. We want them 21 to get their education. We want them to be able 22 to progress in society and take care of their 23 families regardless of how long it takes them to 5147 1 get there. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. I - 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: The governor's 4 proposal was -- if you recall, Senator, he 5 proposed a Learn Fare from just 16 to 18. 6 However, the problem starts younger than that, 7 and that's why we have it down to age 10. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. The 9 other question is -- again through you, Mr. 10 President. Does the experience in Wisconsin and 11 Ohio -- I know there's something mentioned in 12 the memo. Do you have any more recent data as 13 to what impact, if any, it's had on education of 14 children who are covered by AFDC payments? 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't have it 16 with me, but the Ohio data is very promising. I 17 can get that to you also, Senator. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President. On the bill, if I could. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Dollinger, on the bill. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is a 23 very difficult bill for me, and I think my 5148 1 colloquy with Senator Holland perhaps 2 exemplifies that. 3 The question becomes whether we 4 are going to deal with this problem on a 5 perception basis or whether we've got any actual 6 data, hard data that show how extensive the 7 problem is. 8 I understand the motive behind 9 this bill, and I agree with it. I agree with 10 the Governor's proposal, that education becomes 11 critical to breaking what is perceived and what 12 in many cases is a cycle of dependency that 13 people have to be freed from. I think we agree 14 with that. 15 I will also say that my biggest 16 concern about this bill, in addition to some of 17 the things that we talked about, the age 18 requirement and continuing it to age 20 and 19 potentially generating conflicts conflicts with 20 parents between their 19- and 20-year-old 21 children, I think there is a tremendous problem 22 that could potentially arise there. 23 I'm also concerned because this 5149 1 may turn the Department of Social Services into 2 one huge truant agency, that the only thing that 3 they will be concerned about is how often your 4 child goes to school, and they're going to be 5 requiring school districts to report. And the 6 school district will tell you, "We don't have to 7 keep track of them. They are over 16. We don't 8 keep track of those kids. We're not going to 9 police that." Social service departments then 10 have to go out and police that, and next thing 11 you know we're going to have this huge 12 bureaucracy tied up, monitoring our school 13 systems and monitoring student performance. 14 So I have some very significant 15 reservations about this. 16 I will do one thing. I'm 17 prepared to at least look at it in a 18 demonstration context, but I think that as part 19 of this, this has to be carefully monitored and 20 it has to be short-term and should be fully 21 evaluated to find out whether we're dealing with 22 simply a perceptual problem; that is, 23 everybody's sense that this is going on or 5150 1 whether it's an actual existing problem that 2 this is attending to. 3 So because and solely because 4 it's a demonstration project, I favor trying 5 it. I think that we have to do something, and 6 I'm prepared to try this. I think there's some 7 very significant, very, very significant dangers 8 in it, and it is my hope that whoever monitors 9 this program is going to look extremely 10 carefully at it and make sure that it actually 11 accomplishes something. 12 Out of a queer and, frankly, out 13 of a desperation to try to deal with this very 14 complicated problem, I'm willing to look at all 15 kinds of solutions. This is one. The 16 Governor's proposal would be another. I'm 17 prepared to look at it and vote in favor of it, 18 but I hope that the other side of the aisle will 19 look at this with a very close evaluative tool 20 to see whether the dangers and the fears 21 expressed by my colleagues here -- if they come 22 to pass, we will have done a disservice and we 23 should discontinue it. 5151 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Montgomery. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. Would Senator Holland yield for a 5 question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 Holland yield to Senator Montgomery? 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Senator 9 Holland, I'm just wondering. A few years ago, 10 the State Ed Department in conjunction with the 11 graduate center of the City University did a 12 study of women who were on welfare and who were 13 able to somehow receive a degree from college, 14 either two-year or four-year and maintain and 15 have their child care privileges maintained 16 while they were in school, were able after 17 graduation to leave welfare and never return; 18 and in addition, they were able to maintain 19 their families at a level of comfort because of 20 their earnings. 21 I'm wondering if you are aware of 22 that study or any others that have been done in 23 terms of what actually works to break the cycle 5152 1 of dependency? 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: I believe I 3 have heard of this study, Senator, but I don't 4 have the specifics on it, and that's great, and 5 so is the CAP program great. This is another 6 program we think will help, and it will come 7 before your two-year college education so that 8 we can grab young people at age 10 or 12 and get 9 them used to going to school and being there so 10 that they can progress through the school 11 system, learning and being there developing a 12 schedule so they can go into the work force and 13 do the same thing. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Right. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Hopefully. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Will the 17 Senator yield for just one other question? 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm just 20 wondering - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 yields. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- if in the 5153 1 vein of Senator Bruno's legislation that we 2 passed a little bit earlier in this session 3 where he is setting up a mechanism to look at 4 and evaluate the outcome of programs that we 5 already have in terms of economic development, 6 if you thought about the possibility of using 7 that concept for looking at whatever there is 8 that exists that actually works where there is 9 proven outcome, where the cycle of dependency 10 has in fact been broken based on that particular 11 intervention, not necessarily in New York State 12 but in some other states as well, where we've 13 seen some things happening particularly for 14 women on welfare. I'm just wondering if that is 15 a direction that you have considered? Because I 16 know how important this is to you, and I support 17 that. But I'm just wondering if you have 18 thought about doing it that way? I certainly - 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Senator, 20 as a matter of fact, there was a bill on this 21 floor a week or ten days ago that would allow 22 Department of Taxation and Finance to give more 23 information to DSS so that they could track 5154 1 whether former clients were progressing through 2 the system and they hadbeen successful or not. 3 We are looking at ways to do 4 that. We are very in favor of jobs programs 5 where the money goes to the individuals and they 6 get real jobs. Not government jobs, not pretend 7 jobs, not the bureaucracy rips off the money and 8 the client doesn't get the money, but where they 9 get real jobs and stay in those jobs. We 10 absolutely think that's a good way to go. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 12 Senator Holland. 13 Mr. President. Just briefly on 14 this legislation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Montgomery. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I think that 18 I understand what Senator Holland wants to do, 19 and that is to figure out a way to really be 20 able to intervene in a way that helps people to 21 break the cycle of dependency, and I think 22 that's appropriate. 23 I believe, however, that it does 5155 1 not help to accomplish that in any way as long 2 as you approach it in a way that attempts to 3 penalize individuals because they somehow 4 because of their own fault they fail into this 5 category of dependency. And there are some 6 programs we know that do exist that really help 7 people move up and out, forever, of dependency. 8 And I believe in those programs, and I believe 9 in doing those kinds of things that help people 10 do that as much as anybody in this room. 11 I hate to have to defend 12 dependency, especially when it pertains to my 13 people. So I want to do it. But we cannot do 14 it in a way that further impedes their ability 15 to get out of the system, and I believe that 16 this does, along with some of the other things 17 that we have in existence that really make 18 people more dependent and keep them further away 19 from ever being able to break that cycle. 20 And I think that is wrong. That 21 is the wrong way to go, and it in fact does not 22 accomplish the mission that you talk about - 23 that Senator Holland talks about. 5156 1 So if we can come up with a bill 2 that says let's look at what works to help 3 people break the cycle of dependency, let's 4 really see if we can glean some understanding of 5 what will make a difference in the lives of poor 6 people, that will help them become independent 7 and put them on the road to success right now, 8 not based on the past but based on what the 9 environment is today, right now, all of those 10 obstacles that stand in the way of people. 11 Let's look at what will help them move out of 12 that, then I will be all for it. I can support 13 it. I will go out and say how wonderful Senator 14 Holland is because he has come up or Senator 15 Bruno or whoever comes up with it. I will say 16 myself how wonderful you are because that is 17 what we want. That is what we need, and that is 18 what will make a difference in the lives of poor 19 people in this state. 20 But this kind of bill which 21 attempts to penalize and punish people, and the 22 wrong people for the wrong reason, I think, is 23 absolutely going in the opposite direction of 5157 1 helping to break dependency. 2 And so I am opposed to this kind 3 of legislation. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Espada. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: Will Senator 8 Holland - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Excuse 10 me. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: May I interrupt 13 you for a moment? 14 Mr. President, may I have the 15 last section of this bill read again. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 21 the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 5158 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Larkin - 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator 4 Johnson. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Johnson. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Johnson in the affirmative. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: And Senator 11 Goodman. 12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 13 may I ask, please, to be recorded in the 14 affirmative on this bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Goodman in the affirmative. 17 Senator DeFrancisco. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Affirmative 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 DeFrancisco in the affirmative. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Close the roll 23 call and continue. 5159 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Suspend 2 the roll call. 3 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 4 would like to announce there will be an 5 immediate meeting of the Energy Committee in 6 Room 332. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 8 Immediate meeting of the Energy Committee in 9 Room 332. 10 The roll call on this bill is 11 laid aside. 12 Senator Espada. 13 SENATOR ESPADA: Will Senator 14 Holland yield to a question, please? 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 17 Holland yields. 18 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator Holland, 19 are you familiar with the study commission of 20 the Wisconsin Learn Fare program in 1992? 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: I have seen the 22 results, some of the results, preliminary 23 results, but I don't have the complete study in 5160 1 front of me. 2 SENATOR ESPADA: How would you 3 react to one of the conclusions, and I read from 4 a summary of those conclusions, which found that 5 students -- over half the students it showed 6 poorer attendance after the imposition of these 7 penalties (A)? 8 (B) how would you react to the 9 fact that an evaluation of this program 10 indicated that sanctioned students showed the 11 highest dropout rate -- or rather, sanctioned 12 students showed the highest dropout rate with 13 about half dropping out? 14 And there's similar kinds of 15 findings. The evaluation of the Learn Fare 16 program in Wisconsin essentially said it did not 17 achieve the aim that you seek in this 18 legislation. 19 "Why?" is the question then. 20 Why would you want to pilot such a program in 21 this state when, in fact, the foundations of 22 this program has been evaluated, found to be 23 unsound, unworkable, untenable? 5161 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: That was a 2 relatively early result. I'm sure the program 3 got better after that. The Ohio results are 4 much better. I don't have the Michigan results. 5 Senator, if you have a better 6 solution, something that can reduce the 30 7 percent dropout, something that can reduce the 8 dependency that has gone on for three and four 9 generations, I'm sure anybody in this house 10 would be happy to hear it. 11 Let me go back to your question 12 earlier in the day, too. You said that you were 13 on welfare when you were young, and you had a 14 problem, young child, et cetera. There are 15 exemptions to this program for getting off of it 16 completely, or not being considered in it, and 17 also for being excused because of the ten days, 18 which I would be glad to read to you. 19 For example, the good cause 20 exemptions are: Caretaker to a child less than 21 three months old; district determines that child 22 care services are necessary and they are not 23 available; lack of transportation, public or 5162 1 private; child is prohibited from attending 2 school and expulsion is near. And you can be 3 excused from any one of the ten days for the 4 following reasons: Illness, injury, incapacity 5 of the child or member of the child's family, 6 court required appearance or temporary 7 incarceration, medical or dental appointments 8 for the child or his or her child, death of a 9 relative or friend, observance of a religious 10 holiday, family emergency, breakdown in 11 transportation, suspension, and any other 12 circumstances beyond the control of the child. 13 We're trying to make it very very 14 easy for the individual to get out of it if they 15 are really interested in going to school, 16 learning, and getting ahead. 17 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator 18 Holland. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 20 SENATOR ESPADA: Unfortunately, 21 the laundry list does not cover the reality of 22 people living on AFDC or people who are poor and 23 living off AFDC in our community. 5163 1 I think the question has been 2 asked of Senator Nozzolio as to his proximity, 3 his knowledge, qualitative contact with people 4 in shelters, with people living in poverty; and 5 the answer, quite honestly, was that he had very 6 little. 7 And I would ask the same question 8 of you. Since you have quoted my experience, 9 let me draw from you what your experience is 10 vis-a-vis a qualitative contact day in and day 11 out decade after decade involved in the lives of 12 poor and indigent people? 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Certainly I 14 haven't been day in and day out. But as a 15 matter of fact, when I was in the Assembly and 16 the new school superintendent came in, 17 Fernandez, I was on the Education Committee. I 18 wrote the gentleman and said I want to come down 19 and visit your schools because I have heard so 20 many terrible things about classes in bathrooms 21 and classes in boiler rooms. No response. 22 Never asked me to come down there. I never got 23 to see it. 5164 1 I have, on the other hand, been 2 involved with the president of the Bronx in 3 closing up Medicaid mills and other things, and 4 I have seen some of the things that go on in the 5 areas. 6 I know everything is not easy 7 down there or any place else, and what we're 8 trying to do is develop a program that will give 9 the education to the people so that they can 10 grow out of those situations and help us grow 11 out of the situations. 12 SENATOR ESPADA: If I may, Mr. 13 President. 14 (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in 15 the chair. ) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Espada. 18 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator Holland, 19 you seek to do that without the direct 20 involvement and support of people like me who 21 lived the life, who know the life. How can you 22 possibly explain justifying this intervention or 23 any other intervention or the establishment of 5165 1 social policy without people like me and the 2 people that I represent directly involved in 3 teaching you and helping you along? 4 I would not only extend an 5 invitation for you to come to me, but I would 6 come to you. I would work in a bipartisan way 7 to seek out the causes and the remedies. 8 You know, you have commission 9 after commission. We can't do that on this 10 side. On this side of the aisle we can't fund 11 those things. But I would want to work with 12 you, seek out funding for such a thing, do a 13 thorough job, and not seek out an invitation for 14 the real, real experience in working this out 15 directly with the people involved directly with 16 their representatives, inasmuch as I think it's 17 fair that it's only anecdotal evidence that you 18 have. And the hard evidence that exists tells 19 you, "Don't do it; it doesn't work." 20 On the bill, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 22 bill, Senator Espada. 23 SENATOR ESPADA: Yesterday, I got 5166 1 up and I indicated my displeasure with the 2 continuance of governmental policy that really 3 hurts small businesses by creating over 4 regulation. We listened and learned as 5 newcomers here. We are newcomers in the ranks 6 of legislators, but we're not new to the kinds 7 of issues being discussed here. So I brought 8 and articulated a passion for deregulation, a 9 passion for trying to make businessmen have an 10 easier way in co-existing with government, and 11 we do that honestly, and we do that in a 12 bipartisan way. 13 The big experiment for this 14 newcomer is to see, for myself really, whether 15 that works both ways because I articulated and 16 shared some very private and personal 17 experiences about my experience with AFDC and 18 my continuing experience with the poor people in 19 my district, the poorest State Senatorial 20 District in this state. And if that's not going 21 to be listened to, then nobody on that side of 22 the aisle can claim any degree of desire to 23 collaboratively and really respectfully consider 5167 1 any great problem-solving as demonstrated by 2 myself and many people on this side of the aisle 3 time in and time out. 4 So I ask for the defeat of this 5 bill on the merits and to in a bipartisan way 6 ask that the commission be established so that 7 we can truly study this problem very directly on 8 both sides. 9 Thank you. 10 (Whereupon, Senator Gold, Senator 11 Hoffmann and Senator Mendez were standing. ) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I don't 13 know, they all three stood up at once. 14 Senator Hoffmann, I think you may 15 have been on the list prior to my coming back to 16 the chair. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'll yield to 18 Senator Mendez. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Mendez. 21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 22 Thank you. Will Senator Holland yield to a 23 question? 5168 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Holland, will you yield to a question from 4 Senator Mendez? 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Holland, 6 how many days do usually children who live in 7 families on public assistance do not go to 8 school as compared with children of non-public 9 assistance families, the difference in days that 10 they go to school? Do you know? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: No, I really 12 don't. I don't think it makes any difference, 13 Senator, but I don't know the answer. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: I think that 15 this is very important because a study was made, 16 a 1992 study was made, and it showed that the 17 difference in school attendance between non 18 welfare children and welfare children is only 19 three days. It could vary from three to four 20 days. 21 Well, I granted you, I understand 22 your motivation, your frustration in penalizing 23 from month to month the families of children who 5169 1 do not attend school, but in a sense when the 2 difference in attendance -- that data provided 3 by this study based on the Wisconsin Learn Fare 4 program is only three days. It is like we want 5 to kill an ant with an enormous brick, only that 6 small amount of time. 7 I think that also in doing a 8 thorough evaluation of that program in 9 Wisconsin, they found that -- that -- in a 10 multi-year evaluation of the program, they found 11 that one-third of the students attending 12 improved a little bit their attendance. However 13 -- however, 40 percent -- however, over half of 14 the children attending under that program showed 15 less attendance. Their attendance record prior 16 to being in the program worsened. 17 So that with these studies that 18 are evaluating the effectiveness of the goal 19 which you would want to achieve through this 20 legislation, it shows, however, that the Learn 21 Fare in Wisconsin's experiment has not worked 22 and has, in fact, made things worse than they 23 were before. 5170 1 So I think that because you are a 2 man, a good person, a good legislator and 3 interested in doing something about the problem 4 that you should just forget about this bill now, 5 go back to the drawing board, and do a little 6 bit of more research in terms of whatever other 7 studies there are that show the multiplicity of 8 factors affecting a child of welfare-recipient 9 parents achieving or not achieving in school. 10 This in a sense, Senator Holland, 11 is like an oversimplification of the problem, 12 especially when we consider that the difference 13 in school attendance of welfare parents, 14 children of welfare parents versus children of 15 non-welfare parents is only three or four days. 16 I think that our implementing this demonstration 17 project based -- based on such a small 18 difference and the results of the evaluations of 19 that experiment in Wisconsin are so miserable 20 that I think that maybe we should go back at the 21 drawing board and examine all the variables that 22 might be more conducive to increased learning in 23 the children of parents who receive public 5171 1 assistance before implementing this. I would be 2 most willing to work with you on that. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 5 you. 6 Senator Hoffmann. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 I listened earlier to an exchange 10 between Senator Holland and Senator Waldon, and 11 I was very intrigued with some of the comments 12 that Senator Holland made in response to 13 questions by Senator Waldon. I wonder for my 14 edification if I might go back and revisit them 15 for a moment because I'm not completely clear on 16 a couple of things. 17 Would Senator Holland - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Holland - 20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- yield? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: -- to a 22 question from Senator Hoffmann? 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: I didn't speak 5172 1 to Senator Waldon, but that's okay. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Okay. I do 3 remember some questions. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 5 Senator Nozzolio was answering his questions. 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: There was a 7 question, maybe it was from some other member of 8 this side of the aisle, Senator Holland, to whom 9 you responded with some passion about your 10 thoughts on how people had a responsibility to 11 deal with education, and I wonder if you could 12 just revisit that for me. 13 You said you didn't understand 14 how people couldn't value education or you 15 talked about families. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: As I say, I 17 didn't respond to that. But I agree with that. 18 I believe that what we're trying to do here, 19 Senator, is encourage young people to go to 20 school and get their high school education or 21 their GED so they can progress and take care of 22 themselves and their families in the future. 23 That's all we're trying to do. 5173 1 And if it's not the best way to 2 do it, if we find something better in the 3 future, we will be glad to listen to you or 4 Senator Mendez or Senator Espada and come down 5 to the City and -- well, you are not from the 6 City, but go any place - 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's right. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: -- and listen 9 and try to improve it. This is one step. 10 As far as the Wisconsin report 11 that everybody seems to have over there, there 12 have been numerous Wisconsin reports, and 13 everybody seems to have the same one. Some of 14 them were involved with the implementation of 15 the program. It's a beginning, and that's all 16 we were saying here. Let's try to encourage and 17 help the young people to go to school. 18 And I can't understand -- maybe 19 this is what you recall. I can't understand a 20 mother or a father not encouraging or not 21 wanting their young people to go to school, and 22 that's all we're trying to do. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 5174 1 Senator Holland. 2 On the bill, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 4 bill, Senator Hoffmann. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I appreciate 6 very much Senator Holland's great concern, and I 7 think that certainly all of us share that great 8 desire to see everyone take advantage of 9 educational opportunities out there; find ways, 10 as Senator Montgomery said so well just a short 11 while ago, to eliminate dependency and to break 12 multi-generational dependency. This is one of 13 the greatest issues facing us as a society. 14 Legislatures all over the country 15 and in Washington debate this issue and look for 16 small ways. Some of them look for large ways. 17 And Senator Holland is to be commended for 18 trying to find a way to address this problem. 19 Having said that, I am deeply 20 impressed by my colleague, Senator Espada, for 21 sharing a personal perspective that I think 22 needs to be more clearly understood by the 23 sponsors of this bill. 5175 1 And, once again, I find myself in 2 a situation where it is very difficult to 3 explain the actions of this body. I know, once 4 again, we will be held up to ridicule by some of 5 the media outlets in the state and some of our 6 critics in many of the watchdog agencies for 7 being what they will term "out of touch". 8 Because, unfortunately, I'm looking across the 9 aisle at 35 white male faces. 10 This is a bill that has come 11 forward as most of our other legislation at this 12 stage of the game not through a committee 13 structure, not after evolution in concert and in 14 close interaction with all members of the Senate 15 or at least those members who care about an 16 issue and work on a committee, but instead it 17 has come about through the political 18 machinations that so dominate this chamber. And 19 those political machinations as evidenced by 20 some of the comments we've heard today and 21 certainly as evidenced by the individuals 22 themselves show that we as a body are out of 23 touch. 5176 1 This is not the work of a 2 representative democratic body, because if it 3 was, there would be a greater awareness of one 4 of the points that Senator Holland has made over 5 and over again. Senator Holland has used the 6 term "family" and just recently he used the term 7 "mothers and fathers". I can't quote you 8 directly, Senator Holland, but I think you said 9 it very beautifully when you said you think 10 every mother and father needs to take a greater 11 interest in educating his or her child, and I 12 couldn't agree with you more. That was why I 13 proposed an amendment when this bill first came 14 forward, and I proposed it a year ago, that 15 would have shared that sanction that would be 16 imposed upon the custodial parent, that would 17 have shared that sanction between the custodial 18 and the non-custodial parent. And somehow that 19 measure has not been incorporated in this bill. 20 It was voted down on a straight party line vote 21 by the 35 white male faces that I see across the 22 room. 23 And we have a problem in this 5177 1 state because there is a perception that we are 2 willing to let delinquent fathers get away with 3 abdicating their responsibility, financially, 4 nutritionally and educationally, and until we 5 get tough with them, until we say to the men of 6 this state who refuse to pay $1.4 billion in 7 court-ordered child support, until we get tough 8 with those fathers who refuse to own up to their 9 paternity, who refuse to take an interest in 10 educating their children and even providing for 11 the nutrition of their children, we are derelict 12 in our responsibility to ending this cycle of 13 dependency. 14 This bill is a sham. It's not 15 more than a press release that allows a few 16 people to say they are getting tough with people 17 who cheat the system. It does not address the 18 problem of that 16-, 17- or 18-year-old child 19 who is totally rudderless and is no longer 20 responsive to the only parent he or she knows, a 21 single mother who is living on the brink of 22 poverty at all times trying to make do under 23 AFDC. 5178 1 To say that we will punish that 2 mother and the rest of her children because one 3 of her children, who is admittedly out of 4 control, is not establishing a good attendance 5 record in school makes a mockery of - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Nozzolio, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- so I will 9 vote no. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 11 President. Will the Senator yield? 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes, I will 13 yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 15 she will. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'll yield. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I was 18 listening very carefully to your comments and 19 seemed to be confused. In your knowledge of 20 AFDC, does it mean that if there is a family 21 that has a father and a mother within the 22 nuclear family, within the residence, that that 23 disqualifies the family for AFDC benefits? 5179 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. Senator 2 Nozzolio misstates my position. I am not 3 confused. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I just - 5 Senator - 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: My 7 understanding of the bill - 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The 9 question - 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Point of order. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 12 on. Hold on. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I am 14 responding to Senator Nozzolio. Do I have the 15 floor, Mr. President - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Well - 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- to respond 18 to Senator Nozzolio? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are you 20 finished with your question? Senator Nozzolio, 21 are you - 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I am in the 23 process of responding. 5180 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just a 2 moment. Just a moment. Is that your question 3 or have you finished with your question? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I have asked 5 my question, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Hoffmann, you have the floor to answer his 8 question. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 10 President. I'm delighted to respond to Senator 11 Nozzolio's question, and I'm sorry that he 12 perhaps is unaware or has forgotten the 13 substance of the amendment to this bill which I 14 introduced earlier this year, and I will just 15 explain that very briefly now. 16 It is not on the floor today. 17 I'm a quick learner. I figured out after it 18 failed last year on a party line vote and it 19 failed earlier this year on a party line vote 20 that it was really not worth bringing it up 21 again. 22 I had hoped that having debated 23 it in earnest that there might have been a 5181 1 desire by the sponsor to incorporate some facets 2 of that amendment within the bill. The 3 amendment would address the inequity of this 4 particular measure in the following way. 5 The amendment -- and I'm very 6 glad to be able to explain this so that everyone 7 here understands the urgency of this. The 8 amendment would insist that a noncustodial 9 parent, who in 90 percent of the cases or more 10 is a father, would share equally in whatever 11 sanction was imposed by reducing AFDC payments. 12 In the absence of a clearly 13 defined father or mother who is a noncustodial 14 parent, there were further instructions on how 15 that individual would be located and forced to 16 assume that very responsibility that Senator 17 Holland is desperately seeking as we all are. 18 That was the essence of the 19 amendment that I had. It is not in any way 20 predicated on an assumption that there are in 21 fact two parents in AFDC households or that 22 there is a difference between one parent or 23 another of a different gender, if that responds 5182 1 to your question, Senator. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Nozzolio - 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- if you will 6 continue to yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: -- has 8 the floor. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: If you will 10 continue to yield, Senator. I appreciate the 11 explanation of your amendment, but that really 12 wasn't my question. My question was whether or 13 not AFDC is allowed in those households that 14 have a father and mother. 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: If they have 16 -- I couldn't hear that. It's a little noisy 17 in the chamber. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: If AFDC 19 benefits are allowed to those families that have 20 residing in the household a father and a 21 mother? I think your answer -- it wasn't to 22 characterize your position. It was just a 23 simple question, and that the question is asked 5183 1 because you stated that you are opposed to this 2 bill because it does not have any sanctions on 3 fathers, but in fact you have conceded that AFDC 4 benefits do go to households with fathers and 5 mothers present. 6 Are you saying that you are 7 supporting the sanction? 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 9 President. In response to Senator Nozzolio, he 10 has once again misstated my position, and I have 11 to clarify something. First of all, this is not 12 about the merits of AFDC providing benefits to 13 one- or two-parent households. I'm aware there 14 are some circumstances under which AFDC benefits 15 are provided to two-parent households. 16 The issue on this particular 17 subject is the fact that most of those parents 18 who would be penalized, most of those families 19 who would be penalized under this bill are women 20 and children. 21 There are, of course, households 22 in which there is a nuclear family, a mother and 23 a father both present and, of course, there 5184 1 would be a penalty extracted upon them, too. 2 Those in this state are in the great minority. 3 Therefore, a bill which does not 4 address -- I see Senator Holland nodding in 5 agreement, because this is simply a statement of 6 fact. So the reality here, as so many of us 7 have tried to point out, is that this is another 8 means of punishing those victims of society who 9 are already living in poverty and those who are 10 most helpless. The women and their children 11 will get the message that because somebody has 12 not attended school, the rest of the family will 13 therefore be punished. 14 That is the concern that I have. 15 And in an effort to involve greater - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Senator - 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- involvement 19 buy fathers - 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 21 President. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- in the 23 entire process - 5185 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Nozzolio, why - 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- I hoped 4 that the amendment would have been included in 5 the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Nozzolio, you have the floor. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. Senator, you have answered that 10 question. I have another question. 11 Are you saying that this measure, 12 Senator, is a measure that should only be 13 focused on those noncustodial parents that do 14 not - 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Point of 16 information, Mr. President. I did not - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: What is 18 your point of information? 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I did not say 20 that this is a measure - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just a 22 moment! 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I did not say 5186 1 this is a measure - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: What's 3 your point of information? 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- that should 5 only be focused on noncustodial parents at all. 6 I didn't say anything of that sort. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: What's 8 your point of information? 9 SENATOR GOLD: She just made it. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I just made 11 it. I did not say - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Nozzolio, you have the floor. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, 15 that's why you ask questions. I was asking you 16 a question. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Point of order, 18 Mr. President. 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The question, 20 Senator - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 22 on. Point of order. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: It's a simple 5187 1 one. My colleague to my right asked a question. 2 The problem area, he does not allow my colleague 3 to the left to complete the answer to his 4 question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I 6 thought - 7 SENATOR GALIBER: If he allowed 8 her to do that, it would clear up some of that 9 and maybe cut down on some of the questions he 10 asked. Let her finish the answer. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 12 doing my best - 13 SENATOR GALIBER: I know you are. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: -- to 15 find out who has the floor here. 16 Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: The point of 18 order is, Mr. President. It's a simple one. If 19 we ask a question, extend the courtesy -- I'm 20 sure you want to do that -- to let the person or 21 my colleague to the left finish and answer the 22 question - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I 5188 1 understand - 2 SENATOR GALIBER: -- before you 3 recognize him for another point. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Galiber, I understand. It seems as though from 6 my perspective that they are both talking at the 7 same time. I don't know who's -- I'm trying to 8 keep track of who has the floor. 9 Senator Nozzolio, you have the 10 floor. Do you have another question for Senator 11 Hoffmann? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator -- I 13 have no further questions, Mr. President, but I 14 would like to speak on the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 bill by Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Gold, what's your point of order? 20 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Hoffmann 21 was speaking. The gentleman asked her to yield 22 and you recognized that person. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, 5189 1 that's not true. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Excuse me, sir. 3 Excuse me, sir. Let me get it out, and then you 4 can rule against me. 5 But I believe, sir, that there 6 was some speaker's list that you were going 7 through. I didn't mind Senator - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 only speaker I have listed coming up is Senator 10 Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator, 12 he's very good looking, but he ain't Senator 13 Gold. I mean how he got in front of Senator 14 Gold, but I will yield to the gentleman. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 16 you. Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Point of high 18 personal privilege, Mr. President. I do not 19 look like Senator Gold at all, and I certainly 20 would yield to the distinguished Minority 21 Leader. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Gold, you have the floor. 5190 1 SENATOR GOLD: Does anybody else 2 want to speak? 3 Good. All right. Good. 4 Mr. President. Senator Hoffmann, 5 one thing you said I did not agree with. You 6 said that this is not a bill; it's a press 7 release and it's a sham. 8 Press releases aren't shams, 9 Senator. We have been trying to educate them 10 for years on this subject. The press isn't 11 here. The only thing that does get accomplished 12 from this is there will be a roll call, there 13 will be a significant number of people voting 14 against it as was done in the past, and then it 15 will go into a press release. That is the 16 purpose of it. We have been doing nothing but 17 one-house bills for days, so this is not 18 new. 19 The only thing I would like to 20 point out is that there is one thing that 21 happens that is more offensive than some of the 22 other things that happen, and I was particularly 23 impressed with the comment as it was explained 5191 1 by Senator Waldon and by Senator Espada. The 2 Constitution does not have us elected at large. 3 The purpose of this chamber is not to have 61 4 minds, period, elected in any way. The 5 Constitution in its brilliance provides for 61 6 minds from different areas of the state, from 7 different experiences, from different 8 backgrounds. 9 What is the sense, if you are 10 sincere, of dealing with this issue in your 11 male, as it's been explained, et cetera, et 12 cetera, vacuum without taking into your midst 13 people who have grown up in these environments, 14 people who have Puerto Rican-Hispanic 15 backgrounds, Afro-American backgrounds, Jewish 16 backgrounds who were brought up in New York 17 City, everybody, if you are sincere about that 18 issue? If it's more than a press release, if 19 it's more than a sham, then you bring everybody 20 in. 21 I have said this so many times 22 you must be sick of hearing it. I'm not 23 enamored of Congress but, at least, once they 5192 1 are elected, they talk to one another. I've 2 seen Republican Congressmen from other parts of 3 the country brought to New York by Democratic 4 Congressmen so that they can learn and they 5 could see and understand the issue. It goes 6 back and forth. 7 I would imagine -- I would 8 imagine that most of the people around here 9 would be very comfortable seeing this week end, 10 if you haven't seen it already, "Jurassic 11 Park". It talks about dinosaurs. Maybe that's 12 an age we're more comfortable with. Why don't 13 we talk to one another? 14 Does anybody on the Republican 15 side of this house really believe that the 16 families that are involved with these programs 17 do not want their children educated? Isn't that 18 the dumbest concept you ever heard of in your 19 life? Do you believe that the families involved 20 bring children into the world and hold that baby 21 in the first few precious minutes of life hoping 22 they'll grow up to be bums, uneducated, 23 criminals, grabbers from society? I mean let's 5193 1 deal with the real world. 2 There is nothing more precious to 3 these parents than their children, and they 4 would love them to get an education. They would 5 love to see a system that educated them once 6 they got into the schools. Don't believe me. 7 Go talk to them. Go meet them. 8 Al Waldon is a man you can trust, 9 and he is honorable. If he tells you to come 10 down and he'll give you a tour, and he'll do it. 11 Pedro Espada would love to spend 12 the day with some of you. 13 But to do it this way, one-house 14 bill, one-house bill -- people say the Assembly 15 was going to work tomorrow. Maybe they won't. 16 We're in for next week. Maybe we'll work the 17 week end. Maybe we'll come back after the end 18 of next week. What's going on? 19 We can set dates and live with 20 them if we didn't clutter our time up with 21 one-house bills that wind up in press releases 22 and not helping anybody. It really is a shame. 23 It's a shame that this wall that runs here is a 5194 1 sound barrier. It doesn't have to work that way 2 in a legislative body. It doesn't. And it 3 shouldn't work here. 4 Last year, this passed with about 5 twenty negatives. I hope we go up from that, I 6 really do. There will be a slow roll call, and 7 there will be substantial opposition, and then 8 maybe some people of good will will sit down and 9 really worry about the children that have been 10 spoken about by Senator Hoffmann and Senator 11 Montgomery and Senator Waldon and Espada and the 12 others. 13 Do you want these kids to get a 14 education? Who doesn't? But let's at least deal 15 with the people that have the knowledge and get 16 a program together. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Slow 23 roll call has been asked for. Ring the bell. I 5195 1 see five standing. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush, 3 excused. Senator Bruno. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 8 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 10 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 DeFrancisco voting in the affirmative earlier 13 today. Senator Dollinger. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 Senator Espada. 16 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5196 1 Gonzalez. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Goodman voting in the 4 affirmative earlier today. Senator Halperin. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Hannon. 7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Hoffmann. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson 14 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 15 Senator Jones. 16 SENATOR JONES: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Lack? 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Larkin voting in the 5197 1 affirmative earlier today. Senator LaValle 2 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 3 Senator Leichter. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Levy. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese 10 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 11 Senator Marchi. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Marino. 14 (Indicating "Aye." ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Aye. Senator 16 Markowitz. 17 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Masiello. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Mega. 22 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 5198 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Montgomery. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Nozzolio. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Ohrenstein. 11 (Indicating "No." ) 12 THE SECRETARY: No. Senator 13 Onorato. 14 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Oppenheimer. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 21 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Paterson. 5199 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Santiago. 7 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 9 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Sheffer. 13 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 17 SENATOR SMITH: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Stachowski. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 5200 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Stafford. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 Senator Stavisky. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Trunzo. 7 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 11 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 16 To explain my vote. 17 (Whereupon, Senator Kuhl was in 18 the chair. ) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Waldon to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. President. My colleagues. 23 If we're serious about helping 5201 1 the young people which Senator Holland wants to 2 address with this measure, then I think we ought 3 to focus upon things like a Constitutional 4 Amendment which will make the playing field of 5 education equal so that you won't have a child 6 in the 29th School Board District receiving 7 somewhere between $6,000 and $7,000 per student 8 in state aid and not much else and students in 9 other areas of the state receiving enormous sums 10 of money, 70-plus after school programs, each 11 child having a computer, when in areas I 12 represent they have to fight to find a 13 computer. 14 If we're serious about helping 15 these young people, we will speak to the issue 16 of nontuition for SUNY again, nontuition 17 requirements from the students for CUNY again. 18 We'll talk about in the future less prison cells 19 and more classrooms. We will elevate teachers 20 and education to the high plateau that they 21 occupy in other places. When I travel, in 22 France, for example, the professor is the most 23 respected person in any town, any enclave that 5202 1 you happen to visit. We ought to be about 2 learning for our children from pre-K to the 12th 3 grade. 4 In closing, Mr. President. 5 Yesterday, "Harvey" visited the chamber; today, 6 I hope that we will defeat this measure and, 7 thereby, "Hope" will visit this chamber; and in 8 the future, we will make education for all of 9 the children as best as it can be the credo of 10 this chamber. 11 I vote in the negative, Mr. 12 President. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 16 Absentees. Secretary will call. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Gonzalez. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Halperin. 5203 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Lack. 3 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Nay. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 7 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Masiello. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Nolan. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 Senator Paterson. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator Saland. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 22 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5204 1 Stafford. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Stavisky. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 5 the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays 7 16. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1062, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1392, 12 an act to amend the Insurance Law in relation to 13 multiple employer welfare arrangements. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Excuse me. On the 15 last bill, the vote was 37-16? Can you tell me 16 how Senator Nolan is recorded? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary indicates that when the roll call was 19 asked and Senator Nolan's name was read that 20 there was no response. 21 SENATOR GOLD: I think there is 22 an error. Senator Nolan was in the chamber. 23 Perhaps it wasn't heard. 5205 1 How did you vote, Senator? 2 SENATOR NOLAN: In the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Nolan will be recorded in the negative. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: No. No. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No? 7 SENATOR PRESENT: No, I object to 8 that. 9 SENATOR GOLD: May I ask why? I 10 mean -- excuse me. Have him read off all the 11 ayes and nays. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: If you'd like 13 that - 14 SENATOR GOLD: I don't want to 15 cause a confrontation. We've been getting along 16 very well. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator Nolan's 18 name was read twice. I was here and heard it. 19 Absentees were called. Senator Nolan's name was 20 called; there was no response. The roll call 21 was finished. Done. 22 SENATOR GOLD: I move to 23 reconsider the vote by which the bill passed. 5206 1 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 2 the proceedings. ) 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Mr. 7 President. Perhaps we can have a situation 8 where the roll would reflect that Senator Nolan 9 was called out of the chamber. He is here now. 10 And as has been indicated a moment ago, had he 11 been here during the roll call or had his vote 12 been recorded properly, he would have voted in 13 the negative. Please have that recorded on the 14 roll call. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 16 recognizes Senator Nolan. Is that your request, 17 sir? 18 SENATOR NOLAN: Yes, it is. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 record will so reflect. 21 Calendar Number 1062, the 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5207 1 1062, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1392, 2 an act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation 3 to multiple employer welfare arrangements. 4 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator 8 Solomon has an interest and we're bringing him 9 right inside the chamber. Is Senator Daly 10 here? 11 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. If 12 the Minority Leader wishes, we can lay it aside 13 while we go to another bill and come back to it. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 16 recognizes Senator Solomon. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. Senator Daly yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Daly, do you yield to Senator Solomon? 21 SENATOR DALY: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5208 1 yields. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, as you 3 know, Blue Cross/Blue Shield has put out a memo 4 in opposition, and I checked the statute, and I 5 questioned some of the statements they made in 6 the memo. Would this legislation bring MEWAs, 7 Multiple Employee Welfare Associations, under 8 state Insurance Department regulation? 9 SENATOR DALY: Yes, it would. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: I see. 11 Senator, this statute would not allow MEWAs to 12 just be licensed and then go on their merry way 13 and continue the abuses they have done in the 14 past? 15 SENATOR DALY: No, Senator, and 16 the point you make is well made because the memo 17 is wrong. The memo would have you believe that 18 there is no control by the state Insurance 19 Department over the MEWA. 20 I have with me a copy of the 21 existing law which we amend. And there, 22 obviously, it indicates that the Insurance 23 Department has not only the right but the 5209 1 responsibility to oversee MEWAs. 2 I will read, for example, Section 3 4404, "The Superintendent may examine into the 4 affairs of any employee welfare fund as often as 5 he deems it necessary and he shall do it at 6 least once every five years." So there is 7 control by the Insurance Department over these 8 arrangements. 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 On the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Solomon on the bill. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: This bill is 15 not the perfect piece of legislation to control 16 MEWAs, which have been known for some of the 17 greatest insurance frauds in the health area 18 that have occurred in the last few years in this 19 country. In many instances, you'll get 20 complaints from your constituents where they 21 have found out that, in fact, they don't have 22 the insurance coverage that was promised by 23 their union or other groups of associations, and 5210 1 that fraud can be attributed to MEWAs. 2 In fact, New York State, 3 unfortunately, was the home of one of the 4 greatest frauds in this country, I believe, that 5 emanated out of a MEWA in Nassau County. 6 This bill is a step in the right 7 direction toward regulating MEWAs. I understand 8 the Insurance Department has a bill which is a 9 little tougher and tighter on MEWAs than this; 10 however, this is a step in the right direction. 11 And, in my opinion, this bill will not in fact 12 allow them to operate as a gun slinger of the 13 Old West where they can virtually rob the money 14 from the people that are members of these 15 associations which has happened in many of the 16 instances. 17 So, as I said -- as I really want 18 to state is, I want to vote for this bill though 19 I do believe that the Insurance Department will, 20 which is a little more stricter and lists some 21 additional powers, is a better piece of 22 legislation. But that hasn't come before us as 23 of yet, and this is in the right direction. 5211 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1065, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 1744, 14 an act to amend the Executive Law. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Bruno, an explanation has been asked for. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 19 This bill very simply strengthens what the 20 Office of Business Permits does to expedite 21 requests for services, permits from state 22 agencies on behalf of their consumer, their 23 customers, the business people of New York 5212 1 State. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Explanation satisfactory. 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1069, by Senator Cook. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1088, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 21 4853. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5213 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1096, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 4 5446, an act to amend the Penal Law and the 5 Administrative Code of the city of New York. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Smith. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 8 recognizes Senator Smith. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'll be glad to 10 give it to you, Senator. I just wanted to know 11 where I should give my explanation. The bill 12 simply allows correction officers, retired 13 correction officers, to obtain their license 14 permits without paying a fee as is the case with 15 other police officers. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Smith. 18 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President. 19 Would the astute gentleman from Queens yield to 20 a question? 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Sure. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Padavan yields. 5214 1 SENATOR SMITH: Am I correct that 2 this is the first time this is being done? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: To my 4 knowledge, yes, for correction officers. For 5 correction officers. But for other retired 6 police officers, it is already the law. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1101, by Senator Babbush, Senate Bill Number 20 5801, authorize the city of New York to dispose 21 of certain public lands. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 23 a home rule message at the desk. 5215 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1107, by Senator Levy. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1110, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 18 2684, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5216 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 1, 5 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 10 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 11 on Calendar 1065, please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Mendez. 18 SENATOR MENDEZ: May I have 19 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 20 on Calendar Number 1107. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Mendez will be recorded, without objection, in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 1107. 5217 1 Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 3 are we doing some housekeeping now? I have 4 several before the house. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Libous, we're not done with the calendar. May 7 we continue that and do housekeeping at the end. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: You are the 9 president, sir. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Let's continue 11 with the calendar. Regular order. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Mendez, as a point of information, I've been 14 informed by the clerk that Calendar Number 1107 15 did not pass the house. 16 SENATOR MENDEZ: It was laid a 17 side. Thank you. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1115, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number - 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside, 21 please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 5218 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1126, by Senator Johnson. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside, 4 please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1128, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 9 4829, Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 10 issuance of search warrants. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1131, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 23 5007, authorize Tier I status for Allen Ingalls 5219 1 in the New York State and local Employees 2 Retirement System. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 6 Nozzolio. 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Who asked for 8 that explanation, Mr. President? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Your double. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: To the 11 distinguished Minority Leader, I say 12 ex-tinguished. That this bill grants Tier I 13 status for Mr. Allen Ingalls, an employee of the 14 village of Bloomfield in western Ontario County, 15 by changing his date of membership in the New 16 York State and Local Employees' Retirement 17 System to May 10, 1973. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 Would Senator Nozzolio yield for one question, 20 please? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Why? 23 SENATOR LACK: Why not? 5220 1 SENATOR GOLD: I mean is there 2 something special about his case that we are 3 going to give a pension benefit to one 4 individual as opposed to everybody else who 5 would love to be in this situation. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I would be 7 glad to explain, sir. 8 SENATOR GOLD: I'd be grateful. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That Mr. 10 Ingalls has been an employee of a village of 11 relatively small size but tremendous stature. 12 The village has made some errors in its own 13 computation and had admitted those errors and is 14 willing to support through its own local 15 contribution to Mr. Ingalls retirement system. 16 SENATOR GOLD: What was the 17 error? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. Yes. 21 Last question, Senator, and then we don't have 22 to pursue this. What was the error? I mean what 23 happened? The man didn't apply or didn't 5221 1 get on, and now he has second thoughts? I don't 2 blame him. It's money in his pocket. But what 3 was the error? What happened that the 4 Legislature should get involved with this as 5 opposed to anybody else who may not be in the 6 system? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 8 President, I believe the error could be termed 9 as clerical. There are many part-time employees 10 of the village and from time to time these 11 matters happen. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 13 a home rule message at the desk, by the way. 14 Senator Gold, do you wish to 15 continue? 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I would just like 21 to remind the body that we're waiting 22 breathlessly for Senator Trunzo's success, which 23 is taking years now, and I give him my support. 5222 1 On the other hand, Senator 2 Nozzolio, in explaining the bill -- I know I 3 probably will be one of the few to vote against 4 it -- you used extraordinary intelligence, 5 Senator Nozzolio, because Senator Skelos is a 6 great counsel. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just briefly. 10 I think to expedite these, maybe Senator Trunzo 11 would do something that was done years ago. 12 When I was a young trial attorney, used to go to 13 uncontested divorces. The clerk would hand you 14 a card which will tell the witness how to 15 answer. Now, if you would make that available 16 to members of the Senate when they have one of 17 these bills, then they wouldn't -- you know, 18 like Senator Nozzolio had to grab for answers 19 and so on. He can just read from the card, 20 because he forget the key word, "without his 21 error". So we don't want that to happen again, 22 so, Senator, maybe you'll prepare those for us. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5223 1 a home rule message at the desk. 2 Excuse me. Senator Trunzo. 3 SENATOR TRUNZO: Do you want me 4 to give you a cue card when your bill comes 5 out? 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: In big 7 letters. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 3, 16 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 17 the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1140, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 22 5540, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 23 Security Law. 5224 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 2 last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Some housekeeping. 12 Return to motions and 13 resolutions, Senator Present? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Housekeeping, 15 please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 19 On behalf of Senator Levy, I'd like to remove a 20 star on Calendar Number 961. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Star is 22 removed Calendar Number 961. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of my 5225 1 colleague, Senator Levy, Mr. President, on page 2 21, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 3 Number 892, Senate Print Number 1309, and ask 4 that said bill retain its place on Third Reading 5 Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, amendments received. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of 9 Senator Kuhl, I wish to call up his bill, 3414A, 10 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 11 desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl, 15 Senate Bill Number 3414A, an act to amend the 16 Agriculture and Markets Law. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 18 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 19 bill was passed. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration. ) 5226 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is before the house. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 5 offer up the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 7 Amendments are received. 8 Senator Wright. 9 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 10 wish to call up my bill, Number 3810, recalled 11 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Wright, Senate Bill Number 3810, an act to amend 16 the State Administrative Procedure Act. 17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 18 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 19 bill was passed. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration. ) 5227 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is before the house. 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 5 I now offer the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 7 Amendments are received. 8 Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 10 on page 21, Calendar Number 900, my bill 3919A, 11 I offer the following amendments and request 12 that it retain its place on the Third Reading 13 Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read a substitution. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 15 of 17 today's calendar, Senator Sears moves to 18 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 19 Bill Number 6102A and substitute it for the 20 identical Third Reading 732. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Substitution ordered. 23 Senator Present. 5228 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 3 Committee in Room 332. We will now stand at 4 ease awaiting the report of the Rules 5 Committee. Those bills will be taken up on 6 Monday. After that report, we will adjourn 7 until Monday at 2:30 p.m. 8 And I now ask the Senate stand at 9 ease. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 11 meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332. The 12 Senate will stand at ease. 13 (Whereupon, at 2:55 p.m., Senate 14 was at ease. ) 15 (Whereupon, at 3:28 p.m., Senate 16 reconvened with Senator Volker in the chair. ) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 will you return to reports of standing 21 committees, if there are any at the desk, and 22 have them read. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 5229 1 will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 4 following bills directly for third reading: 5 Senate Bill Number 214A, by 6 Senator Farley, an act to amend the Vehicle and 7 Traffic Law. 8 490, by Senator Paterson, 9 authorize the city of New York to reconvey its 10 interest in certain real property. 11 1001, by Senator Levy, Education 12 Law. 13 1310, by Senator Levy, Vehicle 14 and Traffic Law. 15 1364A, by Senator Marchi, 16 Environmental Conservation Law. 17 2205, by Senator Skelos, an act 18 to amend the Penal Law. 19 2209, by Senator Spano, 20 Retirement and Social Security Law. 21 2717, by Senator Spano, an act to 22 amend the Local Finance Law. 23 2721, by Senator Pataki, town of 5230 1 Southeast, Putnam County, establish a road or 2 highway improvement. 3 2984A, by Senator Trunzo and 4 others, Education Law. 5 3028A, by Senator Cook, General 6 Municipal Law. 7 3126, by Senator Velella, 8 Executive Law. 9 3188, by Senator Velella, 10 Executive Law. 11 3374A, by Senator Sheffer, an act 12 to amend the Tax Law. 13 3434, by Senator Markowitz, city 14 of New York to reconvey its interest in certain 15 real property. 16 3566, by Senator Pataki, an act 17 to amend the Penal Law. 18 3951, by Senator DeFrancisco, 19 Domestic Relations Law. 20 4225A, by Senator Spano, New York 21 State Financial Emergency Act of 1984. 22 4230B, by Senator Wright, amends 23 Chapter 266 of the Laws of 1854. 5231 1 4327, by Senator Cook, legalize, 2 ratify and validate and confirming certain 3 actions. 4 4433, by Senator Skelos, Tax Law. 5 4449, by Senator Libous, an act 6 to amend the Penal Law. 7 4772, by Senator Wright, an act 8 to amend the Tax Law and the Administrative Code 9 of the city of New York. 10 4830, by Senator Volker, an act 11 to amend the Penal Law. 12 4844, by Senator Levy, an act to 13 amend the Tax Law. 14 4917, by Senator Maltese, Civil 15 Service Law. 16 4955, by Senator Padavan, an act 17 to amend the Penal Law. 18 4991, by Senator Hannon, an act 19 to amend the Tax Law. 20 5017, by Senator Hannon, to allow 21 Douglas Robins retroactive membership in the 22 retirement system. 23 5332, by Senator Hannon, amends 5232 1 Chapter 750 of the Laws of 1871. 2 5372, by Senator Cook, Local 3 Finance Law. 4 5364, by Senator Masiello, amends 5 Chapter 824 of the Laws of 1933. 6 5376, by Senator Santiago, 7 authorize the city of New York to reconvey its 8 interest in certain real property. 9 5589, by Senator Skelos, 10 Executive Law. 11 5602, by Senator Tully, Public 12 Health Law. 13 5604, by Senator Tully, 14 Commissioner of Health to study the needs and 15 benefits, et cetera. 16 5859, by Senator Saland, Local 17 Finance Law. 18 5870, by Senator Bruno, town of 19 Clifton Park to employ town constables. 20 5883, by Senator Seward, town 21 justice providing for the election of a third 22 town justice. 23 And 5768, by Senator Wright, 5233 1 Energy Law. 2 All bills reported directly for 3 third reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 5 objection, third reading. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 on behalf of Senator Sears, I wish to call up 9 Calendar Number 732, Assembly Print 6102A. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 13 the General Business Law, in relation to 14 providing notice to consumers of their rights 15 under new car or used car lemon laws. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 18 Assembly bill was substituted. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 20 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 21 (The Secretary called the roll on 22 reconsideration. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 5234 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 2 bill is before the house. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I now move that Assembly Bill 6102A be 5 recommitted to the Committee on Rules and 6 Senator Sears' Senate bill be restored to the 7 order of third reading. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 9 objection, the bill is restored to third 10 reading. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 on behalf of Senator Hannon, I offer the 13 following amendments on page 19 to Calendar 869, 14 Senate Print 4898, and ask that it retain its 15 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: It is 17 received and amended. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: And, Mr. 19 President, on behalf of Senator Hannon, on page 20 19, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 21 870, Senate Print 4900, and ask that it retain 22 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 5235 1 objection. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 before I announce the closing, I would like to 4 announce that when we return next week that we 5 return hopefully to conclude this session of the 6 Senate. Hopefully by the end of the week or 7 soon thereafter we'll complete that task. 8 Mr. President, there being no 9 further business, I move that we adjourn until 10 Monday, June 21st, at 2:30 p.m., intervening 11 days being legislative days. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 Senate is adjourned until Monday, June 21, at 14 the regular hour, and intervening legislative 15 days there before that, and hopefully we will 16 finish the session thereafter. 17 (Whereupon at 3:34 p.m., Senate 18 adjourned.) 19 20 21 22 23