Wednesday, June 23, 1993

5593 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 23, 1993 11 3:20 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 5594 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please 4 find their seats. If you will please rise with 5 me for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 Today in the absence of visiting 9 clergy, we'll bow our heads in a moment of 10 silent prayer. 11 (A moment of silence was 12 observed. ) 13 The Secretary will begin by 14 reading the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Tuesday, June 22nd. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 18 designation of the Temporary President. The 19 Journal of Monday, June 21st, was read and 20 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 22 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 23 read. We'll go out of order with the report of 5595 1 standing committees. 2 Presentation of petitions. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Senator Present. Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Do we have 6 one? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Want to 8 recognize Senator Mega? 9 Senator Mega. 10 SENATOR MEGA: Yes, Mr. 11 President, thank you. The Senate Judiciary 12 Committee met this morning and this afternoon to 13 consider the nomination or the reappointment of 14 three nominations made by the Governor to the 15 Court of Claims. 16 From the Governor dated April 8, 17 1993: I hereby nominate as judge of the Court 18 of Claims, Herbert J. Lipp of New York City, 19 reappointed for a term expiring on May 29th, 20 year 2001. 21 Mr. President, after due 22 deliberation by the Committee of the 23 investigation that was conducted relative to 5596 1 Judge Lipp's reappointment, the Committee 2 unanimously voted to appoint the judge, 3 reappoint the judge, as indicated, to a term 4 which will expire on May 29th, year 2001. 5 The investigation that was 6 completed is a very positive investigation. We 7 contacted people who appeared before the judge, 8 who worked in the court system on both sides of 9 litigation. The judge has sat mostly in 10 criminal cases and we contacted the district 11 attorneys and the defense attorneys who appeared 12 before the judge, and all of the information was 13 very positive, that the judge does an 14 outstanding job and this house should repoint 15 him as indicated. 16 And at this point, I would state 17 that the judge is present today with his wife, 18 Diane, and I would yield to Senator Goodman who 19 will move the nomination. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Goodman. 22 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 23 Thank you, Senator Mega. 5597 1 Mr. President, Judge Lipp is a 2 constituent of mine and, therefore, it gives me 3 special personal privilege to be able to 4 nominate him before this body. He was born in 5 Brooklyn, served in the United States Navy, 6 attended Pennsylvania State University, NYU Law 7 School, was an adjunct professor of business law 8 at Nassau County Community College, and a law 9 lecturer, and has other academic distinctions. 10 He has extensive legal experience, having served 11 first on the Nassau County District Court, then 12 was -- served on the County Court, then was 13 confirmed by the Senate in 1988 subsequent to 14 nomination by Governor Cuomo as a judge of the 15 Court of Claims. 16 Today is the third occasion on 17 which the judge's name has come before us and 18 I'm delighted to say that on all three occasions 19 he has gone through our screening process with 20 flying colors. 21 A warm salute to his wife, Diane, 22 and to the judge himself, and on that note, Mr. 23 President, I wish to place his nomination before 5598 1 the Senate. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 3 -- on the nomination. All in favor, say aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Those opposed nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 The nomination is confirmed. 8 Judge Lipp is with us in the gallery. Congrat 9 ulations on behalf of the New York State 10 Senate. 11 (Applause. ) 12 Senator Mega. 13 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, the 14 Judiciary Committee also considered the 15 reappointment of the following judge: From the 16 Executive Chamber April 8, 1993: I hereby 17 nominate as a judge of the Court of Claims, 18 Ronald H. Zweibel of New York City, reappointed 19 for a term expiring on May 6th, year 2001. 20 The vote was unanimous to 21 recommend the reappointment by the entire 22 Judiciary Committee. The judge is present in 23 the gallery with his wife Eleanor and his ten 5599 1 year-old son, Robbie. 2 The investigation that was 3 conducted relative to the manner in which the 4 judge conducts himself was extremely positive 5 from all the people who were interviewed as 6 indicated before. We contacted those people who 7 appeared before the judge and we secured infor 8 mation that indicates that the judge is doing an 9 outstanding job. 10 The Committee, by unanimous vote, 11 has recommended his reappointment and at this 12 time I would yield the floor to Senator 13 Leichter. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 17 good. Thank you, Senator Mega. 18 It's my distinct pleasure to move 19 the nomination of Judge Ronald H. Zweibel. One 20 of the benefits of reapportionment is that I 21 found that the good judge was one of my 22 constituents. It's a particular pleasure to 23 move that nomination because Judge Zweibel has 5600 1 such extensive experience in the law, but he 2 also worked in the Legislature. It's nice to 3 see one of the people who labored in this 4 granite building to be recognized for a position 5 on the bench. 6 Before that, Judge Zweibel was 7 chairman of the Crime Victims Compensation Board 8 and acquitted the responsibilities of that 9 important office with great distinction. 10 He has experience both on the 11 defense and the prosecution side. He worked as 12 an assistant district attorney, Bronx County, 13 and he was the Director of Legal Affairs for the 14 New York City Department of Correction. He has 15 served on the Court of Claims since 1987. 16 I just want to say, Senator Mega 17 has already pointed out that his wife, Eleanor, 18 and his son, Robert, is here. I met Robert and 19 Robert said that he came to Albany to see the 20 dinosaurs. His father was quick to point out, 21 at the museum, not in the chamber. So we're 22 happy that they're here to join us. 23 Let me just say, Mr. President, 5601 1 the point was well made yesterday by Senator 2 Galiber how very fortunate we are that we do 3 have really such dedicated, distinguished hard 4 working members of the judiciary, people who 5 serve with great understanding, skill and 6 sensitivity, and that's certainly true of Judge 7 Zweibel. 8 Let me say something else while I 9 have the floor. I'm the ranking member of the 10 Judiciary Committee. I guess I've been known 11 once or twice to be a bit critical of this 12 chamber of the Legislature, but let me say how 13 proud I was to be part of the Judiciary 14 Committee because of the exemplary professional 15 way in which Chairman Mega ran the confirmation 16 hearings, the care in which the investigations 17 were conducted, the fairness of the proceedings, 18 the non-partisan nature of the proceedings, the 19 openness of the proceedings, the fact that it 20 was inclusive, inclusive of Democrats, 21 Republicans, really the very supportive work 22 that we had of the staff, Ned Cole, and other 23 members of the staff. It's really what we ought 5602 1 to be doing all the time. 2 I guess it's difficult to achieve 3 that sort of level of excellence. But let me 4 say there is no legislative committee anywhere 5 in the country, and I include Congress and 6 particularly Congress, that could have acquitted 7 the responsibilities that it had in regard to 8 the confirmation of these judges in a more 9 appropriate, fitting and successful manner than 10 we did under Chairman Mega, and he deserves all 11 the world of credit, and the thanks of the whole 12 body for the way he did this. 13 Thank you. I move the nomination 14 of Judge Zweibel. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 nomination of Judge Zweibel, Senator Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 18 thank you. We're talking about the Zweibel 19 family, and I came here prepared to say how 20 intelligent, compassionate R. Zweibel is, and 21 then I realize it's not Robbie we're talking 22 about, we're talking about your father, right, 23 Robbie? All right. 5603 1 Well, Robbie says he wants to go 2 to college. He's ten years old. Understand 3 today he wants to go to college, not in the 4 future he wants to go to college. Robbie, if it 5 was up to me, I'd send you right away. 6 Ron Zweibel is a wonderful 7 gentleman and certainly deserves to be on the 8 court. His experience, as we all know by now, 9 is unique. There are not that many people on 10 the bench who have worked for Legal Aid and 11 worked for the prosecutor's office and also 12 represented the crime victims of this state so 13 well and so wonderfully as Ron Zweibel did for 14 so many years as the chair of a New York State 15 Crime Victims Compensation Board. 16 I know what his colleagues think 17 of him, and he should be proud of that. I know 18 what his neighbors think of him, and he should 19 be proud of that also. He is a wonderful, 20 wonderful gentleman and has those qualities of 21 compassion, patience, understanding and 22 intellect which we want on the judiciary, and 23 I'm really proud to be one of those people who 5604 1 has a chance to cast a vote in favor of this 2 continued nomination. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 5 nomination, Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Mr. 7 President. I, too, would like to rise to second 8 the nomination of Ron Zweibel. I worked with 9 him in the district attorney's office many, many 10 years ago, much longer than I like to think 11 about, and matter of fact, in looking at the 12 confirmation, it starts to make me realize how 13 old we are when we're confirming people who will 14 serve to the year 2001 and 2004 in some cases. 15 But certainly Ron, as Senator 16 Gold has pointed out, has always demonstrated 17 judicial temperament and has a well balanced 18 approach to the problems that confront the court 19 having worked both with the Legal Aid and the 20 district attorney's office. He will be a credit 21 to the judiciary, and I'm proud to second his 22 nomination. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 5605 1 nomination, all in favor say aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Those opposed nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The nominee is confirmed, and 6 Judge Zweibel is with us in the gallery with 7 also his wife and son, Robbie. Congratulations 8 on behalf of the New York State Senate. 9 (Applause) 10 Senator Mega. 11 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, 12 from the Governor of the state of New York Mario 13 M. Cuomo, dated April 8, 1993: I hereby 14 nominate as judge of the Court of Claims Dorothy 15 A. Cropper, of New York City, reappointed for a 16 term expiring on April 28, year 2001. 17 Judge Cropper appeared before the 18 entire Judiciary Committee, both this morning, 19 and the hearing went into the afternoon. Much 20 testimony was taken, a record was made, and a 21 vote was taken, and the vote for reappointment 22 and confirmation was 15 to 2. There were two 23 Senators who felt they could not vote for the 5606 1 confirmation, the reappointment. 2 The Committee very judiciously 3 looked at all the information that was before 4 the Committee. Some of the information were 5 allegations and not founded, some of the infor 6 mation was perception. But there is a record 7 which clearly indicates that the majority of the 8 Committee felt that Judge Cropper should be 9 reappointed. 10 The record should note that she 11 was found approved -- her renomination was 12 approved by the Association of the Bar of the 13 City of New York, and I have a letter dated June 14 17th, 1993 which so indicates, that the 15 Governor's New York State Judicial Screening 16 Committee viewed and reviewed her record and 17 interviewed her, and recommended and found that 18 she was well qualified to continue as a judge of 19 the Court of Claims. 20 She serves in the First 21 Department and the Presiding Justice of the 22 First Department, Justice Francis T. Murphy, 23 indicated that she should be reappointed as a 5607 1 judge by letter dated June 22nd. In addition to 2 that a sitting Appellate Division judge in the 3 First Department, Theodore R. Kupferman, by 4 letter dated June 22nd, also indicated as such. 5 Justice of the top court of this 6 state, the Court of Appeals, Associate Justice 7 George Bundy Smith, came to the hearing and 8 testified on the record concerning the ability 9 of Judge Cropper. 10 There's no question that the 11 judge is qualified by knowledge to be a judge. 12 There was some question concerning her 13 temperament and the manner in which she 14 conducted her courtroom. But after a complete 15 investigation and as indicated, the record will 16 clearly state what was done to make the 17 Committee ultimately feel that the judge should 18 be reappointed and we voted accordingly. 19 At this time, I would yield the 20 floor to Senator Galiber who will speak to the 21 reappointment. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, thank you, 23 Mr. President. 5608 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Galiber. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: First off, let 4 me again reiterate, as my colleagues on the 5 Judiciary Committee have made crystal clear, I 6 want to congratulate the chairman for creating a 7 solid record in this matter, and the way in 8 which it was handled and the interest of the 9 Committee for the first time in all the years 10 that I have served on the Judiciary. I have 11 never seen as complete meeting as we had and 12 involvement and meaningful involvement, so I 13 congratulate you as I did at the hearing, and 14 also your staff for an excellent job. 15 Mr. President, I have -- or I'd 16 like this body to know that I am extremely proud 17 and privileged to move the nomination of someone 18 who I have known for a long, long while. I wish 19 there was the opportunity to read back the 20 record on the other two occasions where I spoke 21 on the nomination of Judge Cropper. My mind has 22 not changed at all. 23 Judge Cropper, we recognize some 5609 1 things come a little harder on occasion, but we 2 have before us a strong, no-nonsense person, has 3 been that way for along, long while. Percep 4 tion, demeanor, a number of things which are not 5 judged objectively have been done subjectively. 6 Colleagues, she has been the same 7 person as I have known her through the years 8 when we worked together while she was at Legal 9 Aid, and I was with the Youth Council Bureau in 10 the district attorney's office in Bronx County. 11 I've watched the growth of an American dream, if 12 you will, families who come to this great 13 country of ours and say to themselves, and the 14 family says to their children, work hard, make a 15 success of yourself. 16 In the process of doing that, it 17 becomes somewhat difficult from time to time. 18 There is a highly qualified judge who happens to 19 be a woman, who has excellence in terms of her 20 work ethic, as far as her excellence is 21 concerned in terms of what she has produced. 22 There was never any question, if I remember 23 correctly, Mr. Chairman, of the quality of work, 5610 1 and we have to say that over again and again, 2 the quality of work. 3 But in the process of doing 4 things, there is another criteria, and I suspect 5 that the fairness in which this hearing has been 6 held. There were many who were concerned as I 7 was about certain aspects of it. But I sat at 8 the hearing this morning, and I heard judges and 9 administrators and had letters read to me, none 10 saying horrible things or even suggesting, 11 people who went out of their way to come and 12 testify not merely out of friendship, but 13 because this person is a qualified person to sit 14 but a third time in a Court of Claims. 15 So, Mr. President, I am proud as 16 I started out and privileged to offer the 17 nomination of justice -- Judge Dorothy Cropper, 18 and with her today is her husband, Gene, who I 19 had the occasion of going to City College 20 together many, many years ago, and I might add 21 to my colleagues, I've known this hard-working, 22 sincere family for a long while, and the judge 23 is deserving of our support and in nominating 5611 1 her for the third occasion to the Court of 2 Appeals. 3 I so move the confirmation, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 6 confirmation, Senator Velella. 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 8 it's not a pleasant task when one has to rise to 9 speak against a nomination for judicial appoint 10 ment'. I serve on the Judiciary Committee. I'm 11 a relatively new member of that Committee, and I 12 want to make it very clear that my comments do 13 not go to the integrity or to the competence of 14 the judge about to be confirmed by the Senate. 15 There has been no question that her legal 16 knowledge and her integrity are unblemished in 17 her career and are admirable. 18 But as we note when we have 19 judicial confirmations, we hear the abstracts of 20 the comments that are made by attorneys who 21 appear before the judge and very often you will 22 hear the chairman get up and speak about what 23 those comments are by the very attorneys who try 5612 1 cases every day in the courthouse before a 2 judge. 3 As a practicing attorney, I 4 myself have had a great deal of experience in 5 the courts and, when I hear my colleagues at the 6 bar making comments that have been made about 7 this particular candidate, I seriously question 8 whether or not the candidate possesses the 9 judicial temperament -- comments that come from 10 the lawyers that try cases every day, such as 11 the judge is rude, sarcastic, discourteous to 12 jurors and witnesses and attorneys. She does 13 not appear to pay attention to testimony in 14 court. She has testimony read back when there 15 is an objection because she is not listening. 16 The judge occasionally reads magazines and 17 catalogues during trial testimony and frequently 18 mumbles when speaking from the bench and when 19 jurors or attorneys complain berates them 20 publicly. 21 There is serious question about 22 the time and the amount of time that this judge 23 spends on the bench, and we have -- we have 5613 1 reports from attorneys that have given this 2 testimony to the investigators, that she has 3 arrived -- she requires attorneys to arrive at 4 9:30 a.m., but does not take the bench until 5 10:30 and 11:30. When jurors are deliberating 6 and seek a question, she's nowhere to be found 7 in the courthouse. She frequently adjourns 8 cases early in the afternoon and leaves the 9 courthouse. Lawyers comment that this is an 10 outrageous waste of money. 11 The judge has publicly been 12 criticized for low bench time by various 13 publications and has been rated by one 14 publication as one of the ten worst judges. 15 While I'll agree that her 16 integrity is unquestioned, and I agree that her 17 competence is there, I certainly have a serious 18 problem when these allegations come forward from 19 attorneys who I know personally and attorneys 20 who practice in Manhattan who would never say 21 these kinds of things about judges knowing that 22 they will probably have to reappear before her. 23 Certainly, I think this causes a 5614 1 very serious question and regretfully, I will 2 have to vote against the confirmation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 4 confirmation, all in favor say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed nay. Negatives 7 please raise your hands. Incidentally, the 8 negatives are going to have to -- how do we 9 handle that? You'll have to announce your 10 negative vote for the record. 11 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 12 may I be recorded in the negative on this 13 confirmation? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Maltese is in the negative. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 17 for those reasons which I stated during the 18 course of the hearing of the Judiciary Committee 19 earlier today, I, too, would vote in the 20 negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Saland is in the negative. 23 Senator Spano. 5615 1 SENATOR SPANO: Please record my 2 vote in the negative on this nomination. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Mega. 5 Well, Senator Pataki. 6 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President 7 please record my vote in the negative as well. 8 SENATOR MEGA: May I explain my 9 vote? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Mega to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR MEGA: I would not like 13 to leave this confirmation process with the 14 comments that were just made by Senator 15 Velella. I want the record to very clearly 16 indicate that there was a stenographer present 17 this morning, a hearing was held for close to 18 three hours, that the nominee testified and she 19 answered these allegations, perceptions and 20 whatever, remembering that many of these 21 statements are made in confidence and it's 22 difficult to disprove some of the statements and 23 if individuals wanted to come before the 5616 1 Committee and testify, they had every 2 opportunity to do so. 3 Again, remembering that the 4 associate justice of the highest court who was 5 an Appellate Division judge at the time, came in 6 and testified on behalf of the nominee, 7 remembering that Judge Joan Carey, who is the 8 administrative judge of the court where this 9 judge sits and works, came in and testified 10 about the productivity of this judge and the 11 work that she does, again, remembering that when 12 you make a record, whatever that record is, you 13 can take anything out of the record and deal 14 with it in the abstract, and it may not sound 15 proper, but in order to evaluate a record, 16 whatever that record is, it all has to be 17 considered. 18 You have to consider the 19 testimony of the witness, in this case the 20 judge, her demeanor. You have to consider the 21 testimony of the individuals I just indicated. 22 You have to consider the information that was 23 given to you and how it was given and after you 5617 1 look at all of it and you put it together, you 2 make a determination, and 15 of the members of 3 the Committee felt that this judge should be 4 reappointed. 5 I have no problem with people 6 voting against the reappointment for whatever 7 reasons they have, but I want the record to be 8 very clear that this reappointment was not done 9 in the abstract. It was done securing all the 10 information and covering all the allegations 11 that were made and, based on that, we 12 recommended reappointment. 13 I vote yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Galiber, then Senator Dollinger. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Explain 18 his vote. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 20 my chairman has said it all just about, and I 21 just want to add on that the number of people 22 who came before us, those who object to confir 23 mations at a time on this floor historically in 5618 1 the 20 years that I've been here or more, it's 2 always been a troublesome process because as we 3 go through the Committee, and this does not take 4 the right away, I'm not suggesting that, but 5 it's just sad that we have to go through this 6 because we do not have the opportunity to list 7 the number of people who said good favorable 8 things, and the trouble with this process is 9 that my hope is that none of the spirit is taken 10 away from the person who has to now go back on 11 the bench, because those of us who know and 12 might have heard there's a person named Medeus 13 in the court of Alexander the Great who used and 14 enforced the notion of false accusations, on the 15 theory that even if the bitten person's wound 16 heals, the accusation remains, the scars 17 remain. 18 So, Judge, I don't want this to 19 happen, and I want you to go forward because as 20 we weigh it out, there was much much more good 21 than allegations that were made, unproven 22 allegations. But it's just horrible that we 23 have to use this process, which is not a perfect 5619 1 process, to object to a confirmation of someone 2 who has such quality as far as the work is 3 concerned, excellence and strong family ties, 4 and epitomizes what our system in America is 5 really all about. 6 So I thank you again, Mr. 7 Chairman, because you said it much better than I 8 could ever have said it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, I rise to echo the comments of my 13 colleague, Senator Galiber, and our chairman, 14 Senator Mega. 15 I, too, want to commend him on 16 the process utilized in this nominee's review. 17 I think that when we review the nomination of a 18 candidate, we set a certain standard for 19 fairness, for justice, and for making sure that 20 there's an opportunity to air concerns, give the 21 nominee an opportunity to respond. 22 I think that was done in this 23 case. I think it was done fairly, and I echo 5620 1 the commendations of the chairman for his hand 2 ling in this case. 3 But I also share Senator 4 Galiber's view of the limitations, the necessary 5 limitation, built into our process. This was 6 not a trial. This was not an opportunity to 7 cross-examine those who raised concerns about a 8 nominee's courtroom demeanor or time on the 9 bench, which were issues that were raised by 10 Senator Velella. 11 We never had an opportunity to 12 cross-examine those people who had raised ob 13 jections. Our nominee never had an opportunity 14 to stand there and look people who were 15 questioning her on these issues, look them in 16 the eye, the same thing that would happen in a 17 courtroom. 18 We have a process that is not a 19 courtroom. It's not a trial. I think it's 20 grossly unfair to raise complaints made in an 21 anonymous and confidential fashion to the level 22 of, frankly, some kind of conclusion reached by 23 someone or, frankly, by anyone on the Judiciary 5621 1 Committee or by this body. 2 I, for one, am not willing to 3 credit them to that extent because of the 4 limitations built into our process, and I think 5 it would be unfair for anyone to draw an 6 inference from those that would affect their 7 judgment in this debate. 8 I, for one, stand in favor of 9 this nominee. I think that the concerns raised 10 in the Judiciary Committee, I have confidence 11 will be attended to, that this is a woman of 12 character, a woman of legal competence who can 13 perform adequately and well in the position of 14 Court of Claims judge in this state, and I stand 15 to vote in the affirmative, Mr. President, and I 16 believe it's my pleasure to do that, and I'm 17 privileged to be a member of this body to 18 confirm this candidate. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 20 nomination. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Stafford. 5622 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: As one who has 2 been chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I 3 think I can probably as well as anyone 4 compliment the chairman on the very fine job 5 that he has done. 6 I would like to submit that I 7 talked with a number of people, colleagues of 8 Judge Cropper. They all had the highest praise, 9 they respected her. She gets her work done. I 10 would only say, Mr. President, that there is in 11 this system, in this system, we have to 12 compliment those who are willing to be in it and 13 I think today is an example when coming to 14 Albany. 15 The judge has taken part in the 16 system and, frankly, I think we're most 17 fortunate and I, too, and I can only second what 18 the chairman has said, what Joe -- Senator 19 Galiber has said. I underline, I emphasize it, 20 and finally, as they pointed out, as they 21 pointed out, I think what they were saying none 22 of us are perfect, but when we have evidence so 23 overwhelmingly in favor of a candidate, I 5623 1 certainly think the candidate deserves our 2 support, and I vote aye. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 4 nomination, all in favor say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The nominee is confirmed. Judge 9 Cropper is in the gallery with us with her 10 husband, and congratulations on behalf of the 11 New York State Senate. 12 (Applause) 13 Senator Present, we have a 14 message from the Governor. Can we take that 15 up? 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Take the 17 message. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 Secretary will read the message from the 20 Governor. Senator Nolan will not be happy. 21 THE SECRETARY: The Governor 22 returned without executive approval, Senate Bill 23 Number 3438-A, Veto Number 6, by Senator Nolan, 5624 1 an act to amend the city charter of the city of 2 Cohoes, in relation to proceedings for 3 collection of delinquent taxes, sewer and water 4 rents, and repealing certain sections of such 5 charter relating thereto. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 7 bill on the table. 8 I think we did messages from the 9 Assembly. There were none. There were no 10 petitions. Reports of standing committees. Do 11 we have a report? Secretary will read a report 12 of a standing committee. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 14 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 15 following bills directly for third reading: 16 Senate Bill Number 756, by 17 Senator Waldon, city of New York to reconvey its 18 interest in certain real property; 19 1779-A, by Senator Holland, 20 amends Chapter 537 of the Laws of 1976; 21 2241, by Senator Paterson, 22 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 23 interest in certain real property; 5625 1 3211-A, by Senator Padavan, 2 Administrative Code of the city of New York;. 3 3355, by Senator Stachowski, 4 re-opening of 20-year retirement plan; 5 3718, by Senator Kuhl, Public 6 Officers Law; 7 3747, by Senator Spano, to allow 8 Robert Lee to make application for disability 9 retirement; 10 3763, by Senator Holland, 11 allowing certain employees of the East Ramapo 12 Central School District to transfer previous 13 service credit; 14 3811-A, by Senator Wright, State 15 Administrative Procedure Act; 16 4492-A, by Senator Tully, 17 Insurance Law; 18 4593, by Senator Cook, making 19 certain findings and determinations; 20 4645, by Senator Spano, relation 21 to employees of the Mental Hygiene Legal 22 Service; 23 4669-A, by Senator Velella, 5626 1 Retirement and Social Security Law; 2 4709, by Senator Trunzo, amends 3 Chapter 929 of the Laws of 1986; 4 4811, by Senator Stafford, Tax 5 Law, in relation to cooperative members; 6 5004, by Senator Larkin, Real 7 Property Tax Law; 8 5480, by Senator Cook, 9 authorizing the town of Rosendale discontinue 10 the use of certain park lands; 11 5567-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an 12 act to amend the Town Law; 13 5692, by Senator Pataki, 14 Retirement and Social Security Law; 15 5741, by Senator Spano, amends 16 Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991; 17 5817, by Senator Wright, State 18 Administrative Procedure Act; 19 5818, by Senator Wright, State 20 Administrative Procedure Act; 21 5819-A, by Senator Wright, State 22 Administrative Procedure Act; 23 5820, by Senator Wright, State 5627 1 Administrative Procedure Act; 2 5822, by Senator Wright, State 3 Administrative Procedure Act; 4 5825, by Senator Bruno, 5 allocation and utilization of certain monies; 6 5834, by Senator Seward, 7 Environmental Conservation Law;. 8 5835-A, by Senator Sheffer, 9 authorizing the village of LeRoy, county of 10 Genesee to discontinue the use of certain park 11 lands; 12 5838, by Senator Padavan, General 13 Municipal Law; 14 5841-A, by Senator Mega, 15 proposing amendments to the Constitution; 16 5891, by Senator Jones, certain 17 findings and determinations with respect to 18 certain revenue anticipation notes; 19 5909, by Senator Spano, 20 Commissioner of General Services to sell certain 21 lands in the county;. 22 5911, by Senator Stafford, an act 23 to amend the Tax Law; 5628 1 5913, by Senator Volker, General 2 Business Law; and 3 5962, by the Senate Committee on 4 Rules, amends Chapter 1040 of the Laws of 1981. 5 All bills reported directly for 6 third reading. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 8 bills are reported directly to third reading. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 11 on page number 42, I offer the following 12 amendments to Calendar Number 1068, Senate Print 13 2048, and ask that said bill retain its place on 14 the Third Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Amendments are received; the bill will retain 17 its place. 18 Senator Tully. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, on 20 page 29, I offer the following amendments to 21 Calendar Number 1188, Senate Print Number 5602, 22 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 23 Third Reading Calendar. 5629 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Amendments are received; the bill will retain 3 its place. 4 Senator Mega. 5 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, on 6 behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to call up his 7 bill, Senate Print Number 3576-A recalled from 8 the Assembly which is now at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Volker, Senate Bill Number 3576-A, an act to 13 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law. 14 SENATOR MEGA: Now move to 15 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 16 passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll on 20 reconsideration. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 22 SENATOR MEGA: I offer up the 23 following amendments. 5630 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Amendments are received; the bill will retain 3 its place. 4 Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 6 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 5439-B, 7 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 8 desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Secretary will read Senator Libous' bill. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Libous, Senate Bill Number 5439-B, an act to 13 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. I now move to reconsider the vote by 16 which this bill was passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll on 20 reconsideration.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 23 offer up the following amendments. 5631 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Amendments are received; the bill will retain 3 its place. 4 Senator Padavan, do you have a 5 motion back there? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 7 I wish to call up my bill, Print Number 5572, 8 recalled from the Assembly. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Secretary will read Senator Padavan's bill. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Padavan, Senate Bill Number 5572, an act to 13 amend the General City Law. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 15 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 16 bill passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll on 20 reconsideration. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 23 before the house. 5632 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: I now offer up 2 the following amendments. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Amendments are received, the bill will retain 5 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. President. 8 On behalf of Senator Daly, would you place a 9 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1228, Senate 10 Print 5530. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 12 starred at the request of the sponsor. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Saland. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 17 on page 27, Calendar Number 1137, Senate 5499-A, 18 I'd like to place a sponsor's star on that. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 20 starred at the request of the sponsor. 21 Are there any other motions on 22 the floor? 23 We have some substitutions. 5633 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Is 3 there another motion? So many people standing 4 here. 5 Senator Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 7 Senator Dollinger, you have those numbers? 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I'd ask you 10 to please recognize Senator Dollinger, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President, yesterday I was not in the chamber 16 when three items were approved, and I just want 17 the record to reflect that had I been present in 18 the chamber, on Calendar Number 794, Printed 19 Number 1099, I would have voted in the negative, 20 and on 1069, Calendar Number 1069, Print Number 21 2275, I also would have voted in the negative, 22 and then on Number 1107, Calendar Number 1107, 23 Print Number 1313, I would have also voted in 5634 1 the negative and finally there's one more, Mr. 2 President, Calendar Number 1150, Print Number 3 5832, I would have also voted in the negative 4 had I been present. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 record will so state. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 10 some substitutions. Secretary will read the 11 substitutions. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 13 Senator Spano moves to discharge the Committee 14 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 3562 and 15 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 16 773. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Substitution ordered. 19 THE SECRETARY: On page 31, 20 Senator Espada moves to discharge the Committee 21 on Rules from Assembly Bill 3646 and substitute 22 it for the identical Third Reading 1240. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5635 1 Substitution is ordered. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 31, 3 Senator Tully moves to discharge the Committee 4 on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 4135 and 5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6 1241. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Substitution ordered. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 10 Senator Farley moves to discharge the Committee 11 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6023 and 12 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 13 1246. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 17 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee 18 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6840 and 19 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 20 1258. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Substitution is ordered. 23 Senator Present. 5636 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we take up 2 the non-controversial calendar, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Non-controversial. 5 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 6 Calendar Number 165, by Senator Maltese. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 11 Calendar Number 322, by Senator Farley, Senate 12 Bill Number 2730-A, an act to amend the Banking 13 Law, in relation to interstate branching. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5637 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 395. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Lay aside for the 5 day, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 7 aside for the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 456, by Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 746, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 4345, 15 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 5638 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 753, by member of the Assembly Pillittere, 5 Assembly Bill Number 5546-A, amends Chapter 766 6 of the Laws of 1992, amending the Canal Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 15 one, Senator Sears recorded in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1051, by Senator Sears. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 21 the day, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 23 aside for the day. 5639 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1185, by Senator Masiello. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside 4 for the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1213, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 9 4704-A, Administrative Code of the city of New 10 York? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay that aside, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1217, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 17 4972, making an appropriation to the Department 18 of Transportation. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside, 20 please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5640 1 1227, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 2 5487-A, relation to authorizing a review of 3 current drug impaired driving education. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1232, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5684, 16 an act to amend Chapter 268 of the Laws of 17 1989. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 5641 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 Senator Padavan, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: I rise because 7 I'm trying to see. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just 9 stretching. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1234, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5808, an 12 act to amend the Public Service Law. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it aside 14 for the day. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 for the day, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 18 aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: 1236, by Senator 20 Stafford, Senate Bill Number 5866,, create a 21 motor carrier advisory council. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay that 5642 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: 1239, by Senator 3 Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 1132-A, authorize 4 the city of Buffalo to discontinue the use as 5 park land of a portion of land as Tyler Park. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Stachowski has a home rule message at the desk. 8 You can read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1240, substituted earlier today, by member of 19 the Assembly Diaz, Assembly Bill Number 3646, 20 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 21 interest in certain real property. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Espada has a home rule message here at the 5643 1 desk. You can read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1241, substituted earlier today, by member of 12 the Assembly John, Assembly Bill Number 4135, an 13 act to amend the Executive Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5644 1 THE SECRETARY: 1242, by Senator 2 Johnson, Senate Bill Number 2475, an act to 3 amend the Banking Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1243, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 16 3012-A. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 19 that bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1244, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 22 3104, Administrative Procedure Act. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5645 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1245, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 3180, 12 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5646 1 1246, substituted earlier today. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 4 that bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1247, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 7 3674, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 17 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1248, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 22 3930, an act to amend the Vehicle - 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 5647 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 2 that bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1249, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4220, 5 Real Property Tax Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1250, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill - 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 19 the day, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 21 that bill aside for today. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 55 - 5648 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 2 the day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 4 aside. For the day or just - 5 SENATOR PRESENT: For the day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the 7 day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1252, by Senator Masiello, Senate Bill Number 10 5362, an act to amend the Local Finance Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Masiello has a home rule message here at the 13 desk. You can read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is -- the bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1253, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 5649 1 5411-A, an act to amend the General Municipal 2 Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1254, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 15 5626-A, an act to amend the Social Services 16 Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5650 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1255, by Senator Holland. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay aside for 7 today, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 9 aside for today. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1256, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill - 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1257, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5805, 17 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act -- hold on before you do it. There's a home 22 rule message here at the desk. You can -- now 23 you can read it. 5651 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1258, substituted earlier today, by member of 11 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number 12 6840, State Administrative Procedure Act. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 14 -- is this Senator Volker's -- read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5652 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1259, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3 5852, enable the county of LIvingston to acquire 4 sites. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 6 Senator Volker has a home rule message here at 7 the desk. Now, you can read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 18 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General - 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 20 aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 22 that bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5653 1 1261, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 2 5881, an act to amend the the Family Court Act. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1262, by Senator Johnson. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 9 today, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 11 aside for the day. 12 THE SECRETARY: 1263, by Senator 13 Johnson. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that aside 15 for the day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 17 that aside for the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1265, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 20 5961, an act to amend the Executive Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5654 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Lay it aside, 3 please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Galiber, you said lay it aside? 6 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 8 aside. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: With unanimous 11 consent, I'd like to be recorded in the negative 12 on Calendar 1247, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1247, 14 Senator Holland will be in the negative. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 17 Calendar 1256, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1256, 19 the Senate -- the Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1256, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 22 5687, an act to amend the Social Services Law, 23 in relation to providing flexibility to social 5655 1 services districts. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. Hold on. 6 Explanation. Well, we tried. 7 Senator Holland, an explanation 8 has been asked for. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 10 Mr. President, the cost of 11 Medicaid is a powder keg that threatens the very 12 financial base of the state of New York. For 13 years we have watched the fuse burn, fueled by 14 health care cost increases, rapid growth in the 15 elderly population, and New York State's 16 generosity. Counties have experienced an 17 explosive growth in their Medicaid costs. The 18 program is the fastest growing portion of their 19 budgets and has been growing historically at an 20 average rate of 14 percent while some counties 21 have grown at 28 to 37 percent. 22 Today the time has come for us to 23 defuse the volatile bomb that could devastate 5656 1 the wallets of every hard-working taxpayer in 2 the state of New York. With the passage of this 3 Medicaid legislation, the Senate begins its 4 attempt to truly reform this system and to save 5 taxpayers and local governments billions of 6 dollars. 7 This bill takes over half the 8 remaining share of local long-term care costs 9 over the first three-year period. It also 10 provides counties with the flexibility they need 11 to be true partners in the fight to control 12 Medicaid costs and, like the Governor's 13 proposal, it relieves a local share by the year 14 2000. 15 Medicaid was originally meant to 16 be a health plan in transition. It was not 17 designed for long-term care. It was meant to be 18 a temporary safety net, but has degenerated into 19 a security blanket. This security blanket has 20 left the average taxpayer unprotected from the 21 rising cost associated with long-term care. 22 Medicaid has become a bureaucratic giant with 23 its own agenda imposing burdensome mandates on 5657 1 providers, localities and the state, which are 2 driving up the program costs. The sky-rocketing 3 increase in costs has captured the attention of 4 individuals, taxpayers groups and elected 5 representatives. 6 In February and March of this 7 year, I held statewide hearings to determine 8 first hand exactly how the people of this state 9 feel about the various Medicaid take-over 10 proposals. From these hearings, I heard Raymond 11 Meier, the County Executive of Oneida County, 12 describe Medicaid as, and I quote, "the monster 13 that's eating things like all the aid to 14 libraries and cultural organization and public 15 works projects." 16 Philips -- Philip Gile of 17 Westchester County, Director of Government 18 Relations, really summed it all up when he said, 19 and I quote, "I think the Senate is taking the 20 correct approach, that this debate is really a 21 historic opportunity for the Senate to insist on 22 cost containment control." 23 The legislation introduced today 5658 1 is a result of those productive hearings. 2 Long-term care is the most burdensome Medicaid 3 component for local governments, and this 4 legislation addresses that problem first. As I 5 said before, this bill picks up half the 6 remaining local share for long-term care over a 7 three-year period. The county share presently 8 is ten percent or approximately $650 million 9 annually. 10 This legislation also provides 11 local governments with much needed flexibility 12 when providing optional Medicaid services. This 13 flexibility, coupled with the incentives to 14 enroll individuals in managed care programs, 15 sets a firm base on which solid cost containment 16 programs can be built. Through these cost 17 containment programs localities will be able to 18 reduce their Medicaid growth to a level where 19 the state can responsibly assume Medicaid 20 costs. 21 Putnam County Executive Robert 22 Bondi states that, and I quote, this is a kind 23 of arrangement that gives us the kind of 5659 1 flexibility and the type of service that is 2 needed in our county. Obviously, through this 3 legislation, county executives will be relieved 4 of their Medicaid-induced budget headaches. The 5 Senate Majority is proud to have designed a plan 6 that achieves real reform, not just the shifting 7 of costs. 8 We have worked long and hard in 9 order to assemble a fair, yet effective plan for 10 the state assumption of local Medicaid costs. 11 Through this program, we will be providing state 12 taxpayers with a shelter that will address their 13 needs, the needs of municipalities, and those of 14 the state. 15 I want to take this opportunity 16 to invite Governor Cuomo and the Assembly to 17 follow the Senate's lead, insist on real reform 18 in addition to this take-over. 19 Last section. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President. 5660 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe 4 there are a series of amendments to this bill 5 which are at the desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: They 7 are. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd like to 9 address the amendments if I can. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Dollinger on the amendments. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President, I rise today with a series of 14 amendments to the proposal from Senator Holland 15 that I think will create real Medicaid take-over 16 and real local property tax relief. 17 They are as proposed by Governor 18 Cuomo, I think, the important first step in 19 looking at our local communities and their 20 substantial reliance on the property tax to 21 cover this rising social service cost, and this 22 bill represents something that is not contingent 23 on a hypothetical cost reduction; it's not 5661 1 contingent on something that might happen in the 2 future; it's not contingent on some hypothetical 3 cost containment tied to a, I think, 4 hypothetically resolved 6.6 percent rise in the 5 Consumer Price Index, the medical component of 6 that, but instead, I think offers immediate and 7 direct property tax relief for all the 8 overburdened counties and other payers in this 9 state. 10 It seems to me that, if what we 11 want to do is bring the process of Medicaid 12 take-over into reality, the only way to do it is 13 with an approach, Mr. President, in which we 14 trade the take-over for a trade of revenue back 15 from the payers, the current payers under the 16 system, and we also establish a hold harmless 17 provision that would protect them, so that 18 they're not exposed to additional cost, and we 19 allow this state, through what we hope will be a 20 series of other cost containment measures that 21 are better done at a state level. 22 It seems to me that all of these 23 things can be accomplished if this amendment 5662 1 passes. If, instead, we don't pass this 2 amendment and we have to deal with the current 3 bill, we're going to have a system of Medicaid 4 take-over which is purely and simply contingent; 5 it's not real in any respect, it doesn't happen 6 until a cost containment figure, which as I 7 think the sponsor will even acknowledge, is much 8 less than the growth in the Medicaid cost over 9 the course of the last four or five years and is 10 much, much less than the projected increase 11 which will occur over the next four or five 12 years. 13 With all due respect to the 14 sponsor and I understand the sponsor's goal is 15 to achieve property tax reduction in our 16 communities as well, it seems to me that the 17 formula proposed in the underlying bill is 18 contingent, it is a hypothetical, it is one that 19 I don't believe there's any firm indication that 20 the current payors can meet. 21 Under the proposal of this 22 amendment, we simply swap the revenue of the 23 sales tax for the government -- the state 5663 1 government's take over of the entire process. 2 That can be phased in over time. 3 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It can 5 achieve property tax relief over time. 6 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Sorry. 8 Senator Daly. 9 SENATOR DALY: Will the Senator 10 yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 12 you yield, Senator Dollinger? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I will 14 yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 16 will. 17 SENATOR DALY: Senator, are you 18 saying that this swap would be even up, in other 19 words, for the money that the state would take 20 from the counties in regards as far as the sales 21 tax, that it would be equal to the monies that 22 the county would save because they don't have to 23 pay Medicaid/welfare? 5664 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, could I just ask the question be 3 repeated so I make sure I understand it? With 4 my apologies. 5 SENATOR DALY: Yes, sure. Well, 6 let me just give you a hypothetical example if I 7 may, Mr. President. Let us say that a county, 8 and this is an actual example, Senator 9 Dollinger, in western New York, takes in $19 10 million for every penny in sales tax, the actual 11 cost that it would save in Medicaid take-over 12 would be $12 million. 13 Now, here we have a county that's 14 giving the state 19 million, saving 12 million. 15 Now, is that what your bill -- your amendment 16 would do? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's my 18 understanding, Mr. President, that the bill 19 would take over the actual cost at the start 20 but, as that cost continues to grow, as in my 21 county where the cost of, I believe the Medicaid 22 -- the penny of sales tax revenue in Monroe 23 County generates about 70 to $75 million, the 5665 1 cost of the Medicaid take-over as proposed in 2 this bill is, I believe, the estimate is 3 somewhere in the vicinity of 110 to $120 million 4 dollars. So we would assume greater costs in 5 exchange for take -- taking the penny on the 6 sales tax. 7 SENATOR DALY: Would the Senator 8 yield for one more question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Dollinger, would you yield to one more 11 question? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR DALY: Then what you're 15 saying, Senator, is that it's not an even trade, 16 that it's going to cost the state more than it 17 will get back through the sales tax it receives? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In certain 19 instances, Mr. President, to respond to the 20 question, there is a possibility that it will 21 cost the state additional beyond what they will 22 obtain through the penny in sales tax. 23 The other critical component that 5666 1 I think addresses the first part of the question 2 of is that the hold harmless and the savings cap 3 guarantees that no county will pay more than it 4 saves. 5 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 6 would the Senator yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 8 you yield for another question. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will. 10 SENATOR DALY: Then what you're 11 saying, Senator, if I understand it, is that 12 this save harmless that you mention is a method 13 by which the state will assure that the county 14 will not lose any money; is that correct? 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Correct. 16 That's correct. 17 SENATOR DALY: Now, would you 18 tell me, Senator Dollinger, how much this save 19 harmless feature will cost the state of New 20 York? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe the 22 estimated cost of the state take-over of the 23 Medicaid system is that the total cost to the 5667 1 communities, current cost, and I'll have to look 2 that up to respond, so I make sure I'm 3 accurate. 4 SENATOR DALY: Please. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just want to 6 make sure, but my understanding is that in the 7 phased-in take-over of the tax the cost would be 8 about a billion dollars. 9 SENATOR DALY: How much? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But we'd also 11 take in the penny revenue, the additional 12 revenue from the communities in the form of the 13 additional sales tax. It may also require, and 14 I think it is acknowledged that, depending on 15 the growth, what happens over time, it may cost 16 the state more money if the number of Medicaid 17 eligible people actually increases, and I'd 18 point out to the Senator that that number, the 19 Medicaid cost is growing, not only as a cost, as 20 a consequence of the increased cost per person, 21 but because of the increasing number of persons 22 that are in the system, particularly in the 23 long-term care system which continues to grow, 5668 1 so I think from our point of view, the total 2 cost to the state would be somewhere in the 3 vicinity of about a billion dollars, and that 4 would be the savings that would accrue to the 5 local communities as well, but it's not hinged 6 on hypothetical cost containment, which I think 7 is very, very iffy, but instead the state would 8 simply assume the cost over time. 9 SENATOR DALY: Would the Senator 10 yield for one more question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Dollinger, would you yelled for one more 13 question? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 SENATOR DALY: Senator, would you 17 agree that the present cost of Medicaid/welfare 18 to the counties total is four and a half billion 19 dollars? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That I don't 21 know as well, Senator. I don't have those 22 numbers right here in front of me. 23 SENATOR DALY: Well, Mr. 5669 1 President, again, if the Senator will yield. 2 Senator, if you're going to 3 propose an amendment like that, don't you think 4 that we should know what this will cost the 5 state or cost the counties? We have, and I - 6 we have figures ourselves that we could present 7 to you, but you're proposing this amendment. 8 The problem, don't you have a 9 problem with the fact, Senator, that really you 10 don't present nor has the Governor, in his 11 proposal, presented to the state the exact 12 figures involved, and particularly 13 geographically in different parts of the state, 14 because remember, Senator, that over 70 percent 15 of this money goes to New York City, and if - 16 with the state take-over, rhetorical -- well, 17 I'll finish my question very -- in a brief way, 18 in a short period if I can, with a state take 19 over, that most of the savings would be in the 20 New York City area where probably, our figures 21 indicate that, for every dollar that New York 22 City would save, they'd only have to pay the 23 state back 58 cents. 5670 1 Now, what does this mean to the 2 people in the other part of the State, Senator? 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think, Mr. 4 President, the shorthand answer to that is that 5 the total cost to the state of New York in 6 Medicaid expenditure, the local cost was about 7 $2.8 billion in 1992, and about $800 million of 8 that cost was spent outside the city of New 9 York. 10 So the answer to Senator Daly's 11 question is that, if there were a take-over 12 under this plan if the state assumed that cost, 13 there would be an $800 million tax savings in 14 the communities that he represents, that I 15 represent, I don't know what the number is in 16 Niagara County, I don't know what the number is 17 in Orleans County, I have a pretty good idea 18 what the number is in Monroe County, but all of 19 those communities would be seeing proper - 20 would see property tax relief because they would 21 be relieved of the obligation to pay through 22 property tax dollars the cost, the difference in 23 cost between the sales tax revenues they get 5671 1 with the penny and the total cost of their 2 Medicaid, which is about $50 million in real 3 property tax cost in Monroe County. 4 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 5 would the Senator yield for another question? 6 First of all, Senator, we have 7 different figures. I question the 2.8 billion, 8 question it, and let me tell you why I question 9 it. You take the total cost of Medicaid/welfare 10 and the counties pick up 17 percent. The state 11 picks up 34 percent and the fed's pick up 50 12 percent, that's of total spending. 13 But let's get back to Monroe 14 County. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd like to 16 point out the difference there that maybe our 17 figures in Medicaid, not in Medicaid-slash 18 welfare number is the question that was asked. 19 SENATOR DALY: Anyay let's get 20 back to Monroe County. You say you know, you 21 have an idea of the figures in Monroe County. 22 Now, let me ask how much under this proposal, 23 how much would the -- would the county pay to 5672 1 the state in sales tax and how much would the 2 county save in regards to the Medicaid/welfare 3 costs? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My 5 understanding, Mr. President, and again I don't 6 have those figures right -- these are the 7 numbers -- the name of the game is figures. 8 Excuse me. 9 SENATOR DALY: I'm sorry. Go 10 ahead, Senator. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me. 12 The actual numbers for the sales tax revenue, 13 penny in sales tax, I believe, generates about 14 $70 million dollars and the total, the 1992 15 share, let me just double check this if I can. 16 Mr. President, through you, the 17 numbers that I have, and I want to make sure 18 that we pulled out the right numbers to review 19 this, is that the total cost of Medicaid 20 anticipated in year 1998-99, which I believe 21 would be the year of the final year of the 22 phase-in of the take-over, that cost would be 23 about $124 million. The revenue that would be 5673 1 generated by a penny on the sales tax in the 2 same year, assuming a reasonable increase in the 3 sales -- projected sales tax revenue would be 4 about $95 million at that time, so the total 5 benefit to Monroe County taxpayers, if you had 6 just the sales tax revenue, but you had to pick 7 up the Medicaid cost, you'd use $95 million 8 worth of sales tax revenue, you'd have to come 9 up with approximately $30 million in real 10 property taxes to cover the difference between 11 the penny in the sales tax and the total cost of 12 your Medicaid. 13 The consequence of adopting this 14 amendment is, five years from now to give the 15 people of Monroe County a $30 million tax saving 16 which, according to the current number, the 17 current number that's used for total real 18 property tax collections in Monroe County is 19 about $235 million, so it would be about a 15 20 percent reduction in their property taxes if 21 this proposal took effect. 22 SENATOR DALY: Will the Senator 23 yield for one more question? 5674 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Dollinger, would you yield for one more 3 question? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 5 President, I would. 6 SENATOR DALY: Then you're 7 saying, Senator, that Monroe County would save 8 $30 million in a year; is that correct? 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: $30 million 10 again, that's projected out, Mr. President, to 11 fiscal year 1999 -- 1998-99. 12 SENATOR DALY: And that's one 13 county in the 57. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's the 15 only question -- county I was questioned about, 16 Mr. President. 17 SENATOR DALY: What I'm saying, 18 57 counties, and you're saying it would save the 19 property taxpayers $30 million that year; is 20 that correct, just so I understand you? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Those are 22 what the numbers indicate for the only county I 23 was asked the question about, Mr. President. 5675 1 SENATOR DALY: Where would the 2 $30 million come from? 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: From the state 4 of New York. 5 SENATOR DALY: Then we have the 6 state of New York picking up this additional 7 cost; is that correct? 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's what 9 the take-over is all about, Mr. President; 10 that's correct. 11 SENATOR DALY: No, that's what 12 your take-over is all about, Mr. President, 13 that's correct. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I apologize. 15 That's what the amendment would do. That's what 16 the take-over that's suggested in the amendment 17 would do. 18 SENATOR DALY: That's why your 19 take-over is different than our take-over plan. 20 Basically then, Senator, what you're saying is 21 New York State is going to have additional cost 22 statewide, statewide, because New York State is 23 only one of 57 counties, which means then that 5676 1 the taxpayers of the state of New York are going 2 to have to pick up those additional costs; is 3 that right? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr. 5 President, I apologize to the questioner. I was 6 listening to someone else to get an explanation 7 and if you would repeat the question I'd be glad 8 to answer it. 9 SENATOR DALY: I understand, 10 Senator. I'll be glad to repeat the question. 11 Then what you're saying is the 12 state of New York is going to make up this 13 additional $30 million in this hypothetical case 14 or in this case, and that means that that will 15 be spread throughout the entire counties down 16 into New York City and again realizing, Senator, 17 that 70, 75 percent of the costs are in New York 18 City, and we would estimate -- let me give you a 19 figure, Senator, and then you can comment on 20 it. We estimate that such a take-over as you 21 just proposed would cost the state of New York 22 in additional new monies, $4 billion, and I 23 would ask the Senator, my last question: Where 5677 1 would this money come from? 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, Mr. 3 President, I think it's the advantage of the 4 amended -- the amendments is that the same cost 5 -- type of cost containment that's talked about 6 in the underlying bill, the state of New York 7 would attempt to achieve the same level of cost 8 containment, that what would happen would be the 9 cost containment measures that I think there's a 10 growing consensus on the need for cost 11 containment, and those kinds of measures would 12 be a part of what this state, this Governor is 13 committed to do, and that is to try to reduce 14 that cost, to contain that cost. 15 The only difference, the major 16 difference between the plan in the underlying 17 bill and these amendments, is that it's not 18 contingent upon the achievement of an 19 unrealistic cost containment number, and I think 20 the most recent information that we have from 21 the Majority is that the 6.6 percent is 22 acknowledged to be all but an unrealistic 23 number. 5678 1 This plan, as this plan stands 2 under the amendments proposed today, we would 3 achieve a take-over which will produce property 4 tax relief without having it be contingent on a 5 totally hypothetical ability for the counties to 6 achieve cost containment. 7 My hope continues to be, Mr. 8 President, I think that there is a growing 9 consensus on both sides of the aisle for need of 10 cost containment in the Medicaid area that can 11 be best done at the state level. It can be best 12 done with the unified system, with a single 13 payer, with not having the local communities 14 have to pick up the cost, and I think we've got 15 a more realistic chance to achieve it through 16 the amendments. 17 But the most important thing is, 18 let's give our local communities property tax 19 relief now. Let's begin the process, please 20 don't make it based on a hypothetical cost 21 containment that we're going to ask every county 22 to do that some may achieve, others may not 23 achieve, and we may end up in a very complicated 5679 1 situation based on trying to figure out how we 2 calculate that 6.6 percent. 3 I would strongly urge the 4 adoption of the amendments, Mr. President, and I 5 would ask everybody in this chamber to give the 6 local communities a chance to take a sigh of 7 relief, to give those local communities an 8 opportunity to begin to realize that real 9 property tax relief is right around the corner. 10 If this is amended, it will hold them harmless. 11 We will give them an opportunity to reduce their 12 overall spending and their reliance on the 13 property tax base. It's what they've been 14 asking us for. These amendments represent a 15 clear opportunity to do that. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Holland on the amendment or for a question? 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: No, I'd ask 19 Senator if he would yield to a question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 21 you yield to a question from Senator Holland? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would, Mr. 23 President. 5680 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, we're 4 trying to do exactly what you described and 5 we're trying to do it through good management 6 and controlled costs. Now, you have attacked 7 the 6.1 percent cost containment. Do you know 8 what the Governor is recommending as the annual 9 increase in his proposal? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My 11 understanding is, Mr. President, that with the 12 growing volume of people that will be in the 13 system, the growing need for long-term care and 14 for other reasons, that a more realistic 15 projection would be in the 12 percent area. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: That's 17 correct. That's exactly what the Governor is 18 suggesting, 12 to 13 percent. 19 One more question, if you don't 20 mind. Do you know any tax in the state of New 21 York that is growing at 12 to 13 percent that we 22 can cover this expense with? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, not at 5681 1 the current point, I don't. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: So the real 3 question is, do we contain costs or do we let 4 costs get away from us with figures that we can 5 not control through increased taxation? 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 7 Mr. President, the real question that's posed 8 here is that if we need those additional taxes, 9 if for some reason cost containment doesn't 10 work, doesn't achieve the limitation that I 11 think both Senator Holland and I hope actually 12 happens, the question is where are we going to 13 get the revenue and who is going to benefit by 14 the proposal contained in these amendments? 15 The benefit will accrue to the 16 local communities in the form of reduced 17 property taxes. I'm sure everyone in this 18 chamber has heard the endless complaints about 19 rising property taxes. But this will - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: What this will 23 do, just to finish Mr. President. 5682 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, I'm 2 sorry. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This will 4 reduce the property tax and if additional 5 revenues are necessary, they'll come from the 6 state of New York through other broad-based 7 taxes. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, I 9 heard you speak about the cost, the increased 10 costs of Monroe County. Do you know what the 11 total cost would be over the six-year period 12 under the take-over under the Governor's 13 proposal, to the localities and to the state? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The total 15 cost - 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: -- of the 17 amended proposal. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- of the 19 Governor's recommendation. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: To the 21 localities and to the state combined. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's my 23 understanding, and again I just want to make 5683 1 sure I've got the absolute figures -- my 2 understanding is and again, Senator, I just want 3 to make sure of my numbers before I recite them, 4 that the total cost that would be taken over by 5 New York State under the amendments, the total 6 cost would be about 21.2 billion over seven 7 years. 8 The revenue that we would take in 9 by virtue of the swap for the sales tax would be 10 about 16.6 billion, and the net cost to the 11 state of New York would be about $4.6 billion. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: That's pretty 13 close. I have different figures, very similar, 14 14 million plus 4.4 million, 18-point - 15 billion, I'm sorry, thank you, John -- 18.5 16 billion approximately under the Governor's 17 plan. 18 If we have cost containment, on 19 the other hand, instead of the 18.2 billion, the 20 cost under our proposal with cost containment 21 which only makes sense in good management would 22 be $6.6 billion less or approximately $12.8 23 billion. 5684 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, and, 2 Mr. President, I think the proposal put forth in 3 these amendments, we haven't ruled out cost con 4 taibnment. Cost containment could substantially 5 reduce the $4.5 billion overall cost. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, that's 7 an excellent - 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just that our 9 proposal wasn't contingent upon achieving that 10 cost. We did the property tax relief now and 11 have the state manage the question of cost 12 containment in the future. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, that's 14 a excellent suggestion, but the Governor never 15 mentioned that. We've had three negotiating 16 meetings with him, but he has never mentioned 17 that or allowed that to come up, but your idea 18 is an excellent idea. If we can agree on cost 19 containment to some degree, then we can move 20 this bill. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, the 22 question is whether we can agree on cost 23 containment as a condition of the take-over. I 5685 1 think the position of this amendment is that 2 that shouldn't be the linchpin upon which we 3 provide the property tax relief to the 4 counties. We ought to go forward and give the 5 property tax relief now and have the state deal 6 with the question of whether, over the seven 7 year period we can achieve the cost containment 8 goals that I think your proposal addresses and 9 that the Governor in his proposal would like to 10 address as well. 11 The question is, do we make our 12 property tax relief contingent upon that. This 13 proposal says, don't do it that way. Let's get 14 the property tax relief first. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 amendment, all in favor say aye. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 18 affirmative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Party 20 vote. Party vote, Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll on a party vote. 5686 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22, nays 35, 3 party vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 5 bill. Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Jones to explain her vote? 14 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I just want 15 to say that I am going to support this bill, but 16 I do see good things in the Senate Republican 17 bill. I also see some things in the Governor's 18 bill that I would have liked to have seen. I 19 guess what I wish is that we could have had a 20 realistic compromise. 21 I have heard the same thing that 22 you have heard from our counties, this is a 23 tremendous drain, they are begging for this kind 5687 1 of mandate relief. However, if there's one 2 thing I've learned, even in the short time that 3 I'm here if it isn't a bill that both the 4 Assembly and the Senate have agreed upon it's 5 kind of a -- what shall I say, lesson in 6 futility what we're doing. 7 So while I'm going to support it, 8 I think we're doing a disservice to our locality 9 if this isn't a bill that is really going to 10 come to pass and give our counties the relief 11 that they're asking for. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Jones in the affirmative. Continue the roll. 14 I'm sorry. Senator Wright to 15 explain his vote. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 17 to explain my vote. 18 Having served in local government 19 and having put together a number of local 20 government budgets that have dealt with the 21 increasing costs of Medicaid and that increasing 22 annual burden, I can attest first hand to the 23 need for cost containment and to simply shift 5688 1 the cost from local governments to the state of 2 New York really doesn't accomplish the under 3 lying reform that needs to be accomplished in 4 Medicaid. 5 The difficulty with the amendment 6 is very simply a question of shifting that cost 7 because you end up dealing with other local 8 property taxes. If the state of New York has to 9 take on additional burden, my concern very 10 simply is that we jeopardize funding in such 11 critical areas as school aid, which simply 12 shifts another burden of state government back 13 to the property tax; so while we may have 14 relieved county government, and that will 15 certainly please county officials, we've added 16 additional burdens to the local property taxes 17 in the form of school aid. 18 So I think the real issue is cost 19 containment. That's what this bill does. I 20 vote for cost containment and this bill. Thank 21 you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 Wright in the affirmative. Senator Daly to 5689 1 explain his vote. 2 SENATOR DALY: Explain my vote. 3 The point was made that the percentage, the 4 formula under this bill, is unattainable. I 5 take exception to that, and I can point to a 6 particular county which has held its increase in 7 costs down to under seven percent. 8 Now, I won't read the letter, but 9 I'll be glad -- it's Niagara County and, if 10 you'll check with Social Services you'll find, 11 Mr. President, that this is a model county and 12 they have truly implemented all the cost saving 13 programs that they can. They've done an 14 exceptional job. Their cost and increase, total 15 increase was 6.4 percent last year. 16 It can be done statewide, Mr. 17 President, and this bill can help us do it. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Daly in the affirmative. 20 Senator DeFrancisco to explain 21 his vote. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I 23 think it's extremely important to have cost 5690 1 containment as a pre-condition. To leave the 2 state of New York as the sole vehicle for cost 3 containment is a little bit risky to say the 4 least, in view of the history of the state over 5 the last several years. 6 Moreover, what you do is reward 7 those counties who have been effective in the 8 cost containment and don't reward those who are 9 just going for the ride based upon sales tax 10 revenues that they're generating from other 11 counties and, lastly, when we have over 60 12 counties, I believe in this state, attempting to 13 do innovative things with respect to cost 14 containment, we may come up with an idea that 15 might be well worth using throughout the state 16 of New York. Rather than having one group, the 17 state of New York, responsible for this cost 18 containment, we have many different counties 19 coming up with locally innovative approaches, 20 some of which may work and at least there's a 21 better chance of getting something that works 22 when there are that many people that have vested 23 interests in doing so. 5691 1 So I think it's extremely 2 important that this legislation pass as is 3 proposed. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 DeFrancisco in the affirmative. 6 Senator Dollinger to explain his 7 vote. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President, my views on the legislation are known 10 based on the debate. I would just rise in con 11 travention of the point made by Senator DeFran 12 cisco. He's correct there may be some counties 13 that get property tax relief as a result of this 14 bill, but there may be a lot of counties that 15 won't, including the one I live in that has 16 worked through a Democratic administration and a 17 Republican administration, that has worked as 18 aggressively on cost containment as it possibly 19 can, but because of the numbers of people on the 20 rolls and the rising volume which isn't taken 21 into account in the formula in the underlying 22 bill, the fact that there are going to be more 23 people on the rolls especially as the economy is 5692 1 in a questionable state, they won't see any tax 2 relief as a result of this and the miracle that 3 you're looking for, I submit, Senator, is one 4 that has been looked at for a decade by 5 Democrats and Republicans in our county and we 6 can't get that cost down. It has defied our 7 ability to do it. What you'll have is you'll 8 have property tax relief in some counties, Mr. 9 President, but they'll be very, very few. They 10 won't be the counties that have significant 11 problems that require Medicaid funds. 12 So the bill that is going to be 13 passed today is not property tax relief in 14 Monroe County. It isn't property tax relief 15 where I live, and I suggest it won't achieve 16 statewide property tax relief which is what the 17 amendment would have done. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 DeFrancisco in the negative. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Dollinger. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: I'm 22 sorry. Senator Dollinger in the negative. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I take of 5693 1 fense to that. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: I 3 apologize. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1256 are 6 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gold, 7 Halperin, Leichter, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, 8 Onorato, Smith, Stavisky, and Waldon. Also 9 Senator Oppenheimer. Ayes 44, nays 13. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 11 bill is passed. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 will you call up Calendar 1265, Senator Trunzo's 15 bill, which was inadvertently laid aside on the 16 first reading. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 18 will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1265, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 21 5961, an act to amend the Executive Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 23 the last section. 5694 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 can we take up the controversial calendar now, 12 please, in order. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 14 will read the controversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 16 Calendar Number 165, by Senator Maltese, Senate 17 Bill Number 2114, an act to repeal section 114-a 18 of the Correction Law. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Maltese to explain his bill. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 23 to refresh the recollection of my esteemed 5695 1 colleagues, this bill was previously on the 2 calendar, and I laid it aside in order to obtain 3 additional information to respond to the 4 inquiries of some of my colleagues, my 5 Democratic colleagues. 6 The bill eliminates duplication 7 of records at correction facilities. The 8 section that it deletes requires correction 9 facilities superintendents to keep daily records 10 regarding rule infractions by employees, 11 punishments inflicted upon inmates, and inmate 12 complaints regarding food, clothing or cruel and 13 unusual punishment. 14 This provision was originally 15 enacted in 1929 and was intended for specific 16 use by the Commissioner of Correctional 17 Services. It is outdated and creates confusion 18 on the parts of inmates. Moreover, all the 19 records that it speaks about are kept on the - 20 in the facility itself, and those records are 21 available at the office of the superintendent. 22 In addition, Mr. President, I 23 visited correctional facilities and observed the 5696 1 method of record keeping with respect 2 specifically to the areas that would be 3 deleted. One of the inquiries concerned whether 4 or not the entering of the data into computers 5 then necessitated or called for the destruction 6 of the original records. 7 I allay the fears of my 8 colleagues in that those records are not 9 destroyed and they are kept. I'd like to use as 10 an example the inmate grievance process. This 11 is a process that grew out of the post-Attica 12 reforms and is accredited by the Department of 13 Justice. 14 The grievance itself by the 15 inmate is put forth on a -- on a specific form. 16 I have here the form used by Shawangunk Correc 17 tional Facility which is one of the correctional 18 facilities that I visited. It is an involved 19 and lengthy form that is in writing and which is 20 retained. I have copies of the form here which 21 I would be glad to make available to any 22 colleague interested. 23 In addition, it spells out the 5697 1 appellate procedure which goes through a 2 grievance resolution committee at the facility 3 itself and it is then subject to appeal to the 4 superintendent of the facility. All those 5 records are in writing prior to being entered 6 into the computer. 7 I do wish to point out to my 8 colleagues that the computer system that has 9 been inaugurated facilitates the checking, 10 cross-checking and retrieval of all these 11 complaints, which includes the unusual incident 12 reports, the hearing records, the inmate 13 disciplinary history, unusual incident reports, 14 a grievance log and grievance closed cases. 15 So I wish to point out to my 16 colleagues that this system is far superior to 17 anything that we had heretofore. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Waldon. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 21 would the good Senator yield to a question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 Maltese, will you yield? Senator Maltese 5698 1 yields. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, is 3 there any reason that we could not keep the 4 original written records in a repository 5 somewhere as reference material for that which 6 is placed upon the computer? 7 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 8 in response to the inquiry, there's no reason 9 that it can't be kept, but one of the things 10 that I did indicate is that they are, in fact, 11 kept so that it isn't that they're destroyed. 12 This section originally called for the keeping 13 of a daily log, and the phrase "daily log" has 14 not been kept strictly since the '30s as was 15 explained to me. 16 What we have, instead, in place 17 of a daily log are these different forms that 18 are, in fact, written forms that are kept in the 19 records of the correctional facility and are 20 subject not only to retrieval or access by the 21 inmate or the inmates involved in the grievance 22 committee procedure, or they're subject to being 23 obtained under freedom of information. 5699 1 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Waldon. 4 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 5 continue. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Yes. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are you 8 saying that there is no chronological record of 9 events between correction officers and prisoners 10 maintained at the correctional facilities now? 11 SENATOR MALTESE: No, that isn't 12 exactly what I'm saying. What I'm saying is 13 that, if you wish to access the information, you 14 can obtain that information by keying in various 15 categories and, among those categories, they 16 tell me, and which I have samples of here, under 17 hearing dispositions - 18 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 20 Maltese. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Maltese, 22 maybe I wasn't clear, and I apologize for that. 23 I'm trying to ascertain from you whether or not 5700 1 there's a running record of the incidents which 2 cause prisons to erupt in violence, meaning 3 where there's an allegation or, in fact, an 4 occurrence where prisoners have acted out 5 behaviorally or the correction officers have 6 acted out behaviorally and - 7 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: That's 9 the gist and thrust of my question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Maltese. 12 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, my 13 understanding is that there is an incident 14 record, and I have -- so it's more than an 15 understanding. 16 SENATOR WALDON: But not a log. 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Based in fact, 18 it is not a log. It is a series of incident 19 reports that can be accessed by date, so if you 20 wanted to obtain a series of incidents at a 21 specific correctional facility, all you'd have 22 to do is access the incidents record. You could 23 get them as they're spelled out here on the 5701 1 sheets and, in addition, the hard copies are 2 retained at the correctional facility. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 4 if I may. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Maltese continues to yield. 7 SENATOR WALDON: If I understand 8 you correctly, you're saying that there are 9 various and sundry incident reports prepared 10 from time to time as the incidents occur, but 11 there's no running daily log or record of 12 everything that transitions in a particular 13 day. It is very dissimilar, if I may -- if I 14 may draw an analogy. 15 SENATOR MALTESE: Sure. 16 SENATOR WALDON: What you're 17 saying is systemically, this is very dissimilar 18 to the memo book required of police officers 19 throughout the land. 20 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 21 I think the difficulty here is that I have maybe 22 the difficulty that a person of my generation 23 has with the new computer systems which is why I 5702 1 went through chapter and verse the various 2 computer files and hard copy that was kept at 3 the correctional facility. 4 If a person wanted to go through 5 each incident at the time it is reported, is 6 given an incident number. That incident number 7 is arranged chronologically so, therefore, if 8 you wanted to, you could obtain hard copies of 9 each and every incident that takes place at that 10 facility in hard copy, but even better, you 11 could go directly to the computer, looking up 12 incident numbers, and let's say I assume 13 Incident Number 1 would be January 1st, 1993. 14 You could then obtain chronologically every 15 incident that took place from January 1st, 1993 16 on to date. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Waldon. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Is there support 21 for your bill from the defenders' association? 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, I haven't 23 received anything in opposition, Senator. 5703 1 SENATOR WALDON: Those 2 organizations other than the defenders' 3 organizations which represent prisoners' rights, 4 are they supporting your bill or are they in 5 opposition? 6 SENATOR MALTESE: They -- Mr. 7 President, they have not communicated any 8 opposition. 9 I wish to point out to my 10 distinguished colleague, that in going through 11 these records, it's -- it appears to me as 12 somebody who isn't exactly computer literate as 13 they say, that the ease that you could cross 14 check incidents with dates and occurrences and 15 facilities and type of grievance report and 16 resolution of grievance committees and so on, 17 has been vastly facilitated by the entry into 18 these computers. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 20 on the bill, if I may. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Waldon, on the bill. 23 SENATOR WALDON: My fear, Senator 5704 1 Maltese, is that in this age of high technology 2 that a virus may attack the system in a 3 particular prison and information that has gone 4 onto the computer will be lost. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 6 if I might address myself specifically to that. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Waldon yield to Senator Maltese? 9 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, I'll suffer 10 the interruption, yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER Senator 12 Waldon yields. 13 SENATOR MALTESE: In addition to 14 the incident reports which are not destroyed, 15 they make a daily tape, pull it from the 16 commuter, make a printout -- it's a printout and 17 then retain the printout. So if a virus 18 destroyed everything in the computer, at the end 19 of the day it would simply require going back to 20 the written -- to the written papers and again 21 putting it in on the day. So you do have hard 22 copy available both in the computer records and 23 in the -- in the original document submitted. 5705 1 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 2 if I may. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I'm pleased with 6 that information. When we debated this bill the 7 last time, that substantive information was not 8 forthcoming. What you are, in effect, saying is 9 that there are several running records. There's 10 the incident report, seriatim, there's the tape 11 on a daily basis, and there are all of the 12 computer entries, so we have three records which 13 could be utilized as a daily log. That was not 14 my understanding when we debated this bill the 15 last time. 16 So, Senator Maltese, I must tell 17 you that I applaud your effort. I applaud your 18 stick-to-itiveness digging all of this 19 information out and edifying us who are your 20 colleagues, and I think that you have 21 sufficiently convinced me that I may change my 22 position in a few moments when we vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 5706 1 the last section. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Oh, 4 Senator Gold. 5 SENATOR GOLD: I just really - 6 Senator Maltese, you've been very generous with 7 your time, but I want to ask you one question. I 8 just want it clear in my mind, I don't care what 9 you call it, all right? It's not the name of 10 it, but, for example, a police officer in the 11 city of New York carries a book and you -- you 12 can see the day as that police officer walked 13 around and everything that happened in a chrono 14 logical fashion. Now, if he makes an an arrest, 15 obviously that's a different report and you 16 could see what happened in that arrest. 17 Is there such a document that 18 will survive your legislation with regard to the 19 correctional department? In other words, you've 20 explained in detail what would happen if you 21 went to the computer and punched in various key 22 words, but if I wanted to know, for example, 23 what a particular correction officer was doing 5707 1 or whether there were reports on a specific day, 2 will there be anything that chronologically 3 tracks, such as we were led to believe this 4 daily log was, after your bill? 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 6 the cross-check - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Maltese. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: -- would 10 survive this bill, and it would survive it with 11 respect to incidents. It would survive with 12 respect to chronological report, and it would 13 survive with respect to prison -- to inmates' or 14 prisoners' names. They do not keep a separate 15 listing as to employee complaints; in other 16 words, there is not a listing by correctional 17 employee's names. That's the only thing that is 18 not kept. 19 By the way, I don't want to 20 misunderstand, that is not kept in -- in 21 inferring that it is destroyed. It is 22 accessible, but it is not accessible by simply 23 pressing a key on the computer. It is 5708 1 accessible as far as the original documents are 2 concerned, and I also wish the record to reflect 3 that I will now have delivered to Senator 4 Waldon, this voluminous material that I have 5 gotten together now. I have retained a copy, so 6 that in the future, hopefully I will be able to 7 -- to answer his searching questions which will 8 be made even more searching after he peruses 9 these documents. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- those 18 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 165 19 are Senators Connor, Espada, Gold, Hoffmann, 20 Ohrenstein, Solomon and Stavisky. Ayes 50, nays 21 7. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 5709 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 456, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 3286, 3 an act to amend the Penal Law. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 5 yield for a question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 Saland yields. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, a similar 9 bill, I believe, passed and was vetoed. Is 10 there any difference in this bill? 11 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, there is. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Will you explain 13 that to us? 14 SENATOR SALAND: There is a 15 difference. The difference is found in the last 16 couple of lines of the bill. Last year's 17 version of the bill made reference to disposal 18 of a firearm, and it was done in the context of 19 providing the instructor who would be working 20 with the -- with the applicant, freedom from 21 liability as long as that person had a receipt 22 from the licensing authority within the prior 23 six months showing that the person did, in fact, 5710 1 have a -- an application. 2 There was concern about the use 3 of the word "disposal" for fear that it 4 effectively would enable that instructor to sell 5 the gun. If you look at the current language, 6 the language has been changed to providing a 7 firearm for such use by such unlicensed 8 individual in an effort to get around the sale 9 portion. 10 We believe we've addressed one of 11 the problems, one of the significant problems. 12 There's another problem in the bill which we 13 think is a -- according to the Governor, which 14 we feel is a little unrealistic that somebody 15 who is predisposed to getting a gun for illegal 16 purposes would go, get an application, pay the 17 application fee and then attempt to then turn 18 that weapon on his or her instructor and then 19 use that weapon for nefarious purposes. 20 I think that's a bit of an 21 illusory problem, somewhat imaginary. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. With 23 that explanation, I just point out that Sentor 5711 1 Mendez and Montgomery and Paterson, I think, had 2 some problems last year. Last section. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 19 on Calendar 165, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Leichter, without objection, in the negative on 22 165. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5712 1 1185, by Senator Masiello. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 3 the day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1213, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 8 4704-A, Administrative Code of the city of New 9 York. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1217, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 16 4972, an act making an appropriation to the 17 Department of Transportation. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can we get an 19 explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 23 temporarily. 5713 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1236, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 3 5866, create a Motor Carrier Advisory Council. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a second 12 please. Explanation. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill 14 aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 16 bill aside, withdraw the roll call. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1243, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 1230 19 A, an act to amend the Civil Service Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5714 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Franz. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 7 Senators Kuhl and Leichter recorded in the 8 negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 12 Calendar Number 1243, it's ayes 55, nays 2, 13 Senators Galiber and Kuhl recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Despite 16 Senator Leichter's support, the bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1246, substituted earlier today, by member of 19 the Assembly Tonko, Assembly Bill Number 6023, 20 allowing Alexandra J. Burns to apply for 21 retroactive membership in the employees' 22 retirement system. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 5715 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 5 the roll. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, may 7 I have my name called? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Gold to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I told 11 Senator Farley that I was not going to debate it 12 and, Senator, I'm not but I just noticed in the 13 notes, this bill passed last year and was 14 vetoed, quotes, "because of failure to apply - 15 the membership was not -- it was failure of 16 evidence to show it was not the person's 17 fault." 18 I mean what we're doing assuming 19 the Governor is now undertaking this, is we've 20 made a court out of the Governor's office. I 21 mean this is just getting more and more absurd. 22 I vote in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5716 1 Gold in the negative, Senator Galiber, 2 Leichter. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 3, 4 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 5 the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 7 bill is passed. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Just to explain 9 my vote on this, if I might. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Farley to explain his vote. Withdraw the roll 12 call. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: You know, I do 14 that reluctantly, but the bill has been passed. 15 Incidentally, that evidence has been supplied 16 with this. The evidence that the Governor, as a 17 result of his veto. We addressed his veto. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 19 bill is now passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1248, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 22 3930, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 23 Law. 5717 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Goodman 2 yield to a question? 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, Senator. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Goodman yields. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the only 7 question I have is, I was told -- and I wanted 8 to verify this with you -- that we have been 9 extending this, but that they don't put the 10 program in. 11 SENATOR GOODMAN: They don't 12 what? 13 SENATOR GOLD: Is there such a 14 program in existence now? 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: Program? 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, it says a 17 traffic control signal; isn't this they're 18 supposed to submit a report? Somebody told me 19 that they weren't -- that it's not in effect 20 right now? 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: What I think 22 you're referring to, Senator, or, Mr. President, 23 that there is a demonstration program in effect 5718 1 which has been reported upon and which was a 2 very significant success. It covered a 30-day 3 period in the fall of 1990, during which time 4 over a thousand summonses were issued and there 5 was over a 70 percent conviction rate based upon 6 the summonses. 7 So that the house knows what 8 we're talking about, let me just say that this 9 is in reference to an experiment in the city of 10 New York, which refers to the use of a red - 11 so-called red light camera. We've had a very 12 high incidence of red light running with the 13 result of some exceedingly serious accidents one 14 of which, for example, involved a car which went 15 through a red light, got hooked onto a baby 16 carriage, dragged the carriage with the baby in 17 it for some ten blocks, and the child was 18 killed. 19 The camera's purpose is to act 20 principally as a deterrent because if people 21 realize that, when they run red lights, which is 22 done with gay aban... with abandon in New York, 23 we have a situation which obviously creates 5719 1 great danger, but in addition to the deterrent 2 aspect - 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator 8 Goodman, I understand fully the intent and how 9 good it is. I was just asking the question - 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: I hope I've 11 responded. 12 SENATOR GOLD: -- as it was raised 13 in committee, is the program in effect? 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: The program or 15 as you call it -- as I call it, the demonstra 16 tion. 17 SENATOR GOLD: The 18 demonstration. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Now, what the 20 bill seeks to do is to have an additional two 21 year period to continue the demonstration on an 22 expanded basis. It will not become a totally 23 pervasive program. 5720 1 SENATOR GOLD: I just wanted to 2 make sure that something was happening. The 3 impression given in the committee, and I'm sure 4 it was nobody's fault, is that they've done 5 nothing with it, and we keep extending it 6 waiting for them to do something. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: That is not - 8 SENATOR GOLD: So they are doing 9 something. 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: That is 11 correct. Yes, they are. 12 SENATOR GOLD: That's all I want 13 to know. Thank you very much. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: You're very 15 welcome. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE SECRETARY: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5721 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 4 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General 5 Municipal Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. May we get 7 one day on this, please? Thank you very much. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: One 9 day. One day on it? Lay aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1261, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 12 5881, an act to amend the Family Court Act. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 15 Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 18 Saland. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 20 this bill is a bill which we've entitled The 21 Family Protection and Domestic Violence 22 Intervention Act of 1993. Needless to say, and 23 I think we would all be familiar with the 5722 1 reality, in fact, that domestic violence is and 2 should be treated much more as a crime than it 3 has been presently. 4 Domestic violence destroys the 5 illusion of the home as a safe place and a 6 nurturing place, and it basically renders 7 meaningless many of the things that we have 8 placed value about within the sanctity of the 9 home and despite the heightened public awareness 10 over the past several years, perhaps the past 11 six to eight years or more, it still to be an 12 alarmingly present phenomenon. 13 According to statistics from the 14 department -- the Division of Criminal Justice 15 Services, DCJS, there was nearly some 30,000 16 incidents reported to them within the last 17 reporting year, and nearly 70,000 family offense 18 related matters reported through OCA. 19 If you go into an emergency room 20 today, there's probably the likelihood that some 21 30 to 35 percent of the incidents that will be 22 reported in that emergency room will be in the 23 nature of domestic violence incidents. 5723 1 If you'll look to some of the 2 national figures according to the F.B.I. 3 statistics, nearly 4,000 women in the United 4 States are killed every year in domestic 5 violence cases, and further, some 6 million 6 women, according to the United States Department 7 of Justice, are the subject of abuse by their 8 partners. 9 What we're proposing to do here, 10 Mr. President, is to take, in a very comprehens 11 ive fashion, the enormity of the problem with 12 which we're dealing and attempt to deal with it 13 on several levels. We are proposing here what 14 would amount to New York's first mandatory 15 arrest law. There is currently, under no 16 circumstances in the state of New York do you 17 have a situation in which a mandatory arrest 18 would occur. 19 We're proposing here also where 20 there are instances in which there's been the 21 use of physical force -- I'm sorry, where 22 there's been physical injury, serious physical 23 injury, the use of deadly physical force that 5724 1 orders of protection which currently have a 2 one-year span to them be extended to three 3 years. 4 We're talking about enabling 5 courts to consider, in the course of their 6 deliberations whether or not they should remove 7 firearms, where there's been battering in the 8 course of a home. We're talking in addition, 9 Mr. President, to expanding the family offense 10 statute to include the stalking crimes. We're 11 talking of the ability in addition to provide 12 that, where there's been a violation of an order 13 of protection, the person who has been the 14 victim of that violation can go before the 15 Family Court and request that the Family Court 16 where there again has been an allegation of 17 physical injury, serious physical injury or use 18 of deadly physical force, to request that that 19 matter be transferred to a criminal court and 20 should that occur, the Family Court would still 21 retain jurisdiction over the contempt 22 proceeding. 23 We're also talking here about 5725 1 dealing with children, children who are not the 2 victims of abuse but have the misfortune of 3 observing that abuse. Statistics will tell you 4 also, and these are national statistics, that 5 some 34 percent of people have viewed domestic 6 violence occurring in their home. That's far 7 more than the 19 percent of the people who have 8 viewed violent crimes such as muggings and 9 rapes. 10 What we're talking about here is 11 requiring greater training of police, State 12 Police and municipal police, to provide a 13 greater degree of awareness and sensitivity to 14 domestic violence. 15 This bill is, I would venture, 16 perhaps the most comprehensive bill dealing with 17 the subject of domestic violence that has been 18 seen within either of our houses of this 19 Legislature, certainly within my memory, and I 20 would suspect within the past couple of 21 decades. 22 It's a bill which I'm proud to 23 say all of my Senate Republican colleagues have 5726 1 joined me in sponsoring. It's a bill which I 2 think is really and most appropriately an 3 enormous step in the battle against domestic 4 violence. It's a bill which I would hope that 5 we might see some action on before the end of 6 this session. It remains to be seen whether 7 that will occur. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. I'll 9 yield to any questions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Oppenheimer. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 As Senator Saland notes, this is 15 an issue that we have been very interested in on 16 this side of the aisle too, taking a different 17 -- a different look at the -- at the problem, 18 basically looking at domestic violence from the 19 health care -- woman's health care point of 20 view, how we can intervene in the cycle which 21 you do address, how we might be able to provide 22 some relief to our emergency rooms where they 23 are continually seeing the same victim back 5727 1 again, and I might add enormous cost, not just 2 hospital costs but, of course, a grave and 3 serious cost to the woman. It's normally a 4 woman, so we'll say woman. 5 And I must congratulate Senator 6 Saland. This is a fine bill. It has a lot of 7 very fine things in it which I will just briefly 8 mention. The mandatory -- the pro-arrest policy 9 is excellent as something we were looking into 10 as well. The extending the Family Court order 11 of protection, excellent. Really, a wonderful 12 piece -- piece of legislation would be the 13 removal of firearms from the batterer's home 14 because that is often the weapon of choice of 15 the batterer. 16 Particularly fine is compiling 17 and providing to victims of the information 18 concerning shelters, counseling, medical and 19 legal advocacy. But having said that, I have a 20 couple of questions. 21 If you would yield for a 22 question, Senator Saland. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, Mr. 5728 1 President. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: As I read 3 this, it appears, and you'll have to correct me 4 if I'm wrong, that this only deals with married 5 couples or couples with a child, that it does 6 not apply to people who co-habitate, so if you 7 have co-habitation, and the man is beating up 8 the woman, there -- this doesn't apply, the 9 bill, is that true? 10 SENATOR SALAND: This is 11 basically the same definition that has currently 12 been used under the existing law. The law 13 provides not only for spouses, battering between 14 spouses, a -- people formally married, but also 15 with an instance in which there is -- there are 16 two people who are a -- who may have had a child 17 born out of wedlock as the statute reads. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would ask 19 if the Senator would yield again. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Senator, would you yield again? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Then if two 5729 1 people are living together and don't have a 2 child or if the man denies paternity of the 3 child, then those two people aren't covered 4 under this law. Do you think we should expand 5 it to cover these people, since it's a common 6 occurrence in today's society? 7 SENATOR SALAND: Well, we did a 8 bill a bit earlier, I believe. I believe we've 9 done the bill already which is going to, I would 10 also add, make it easier to establish paternity 11 which may bring a lot more people under the 12 ambit of the out-of-wedlock section. 13 I can recall that particularly 14 well because I introduced that bill back when I 15 was in the Assembly and the -- the problem 16 with -- with just dealing with people who may 17 be, quote/unquote, living together, is it's a 18 very hard term to define. Does that mean 19 somebody who may be together for an evening? 20 Does that mean somebody who is together for two 21 days? Does that mean somebody who is together 22 for a month, somebody who is together for three 23 or four or five months? 5730 1 So we're working within the 2 construct of the existing statute, and we 3 believe that, other than the fact that we 4 reasonably expect it to be easier to establish 5 paternity based on some of the changes we've 6 made earlier on, which I think we're going to be 7 having three-way agreement on, by the way, that 8 the definitions will remain primarily as is. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: M-m h-m-m. 10 I believe -- I'm uncertain -- that there is an 11 Assembly bill that does determine or try and 12 define co-habitation and amounts of time and 13 that issue. Do you know if that's -- if there 14 is an Assembly bill like that? Are you aware of 15 that bill that tries to define co-habitation? 16 SENATOR SALAND: I'm - 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oops, we 18 even have a number, if you would be good enough 19 to look into it, Senator. It's A. 3772. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly take a 21 look at it. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It tries to 23 deal with this problem because there are so many 5731 1 couples now that co-habitate and don't marry. 2 It's not like when I was a kid. 3 I have another question - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Saland, would you yield for another question? 6 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I see that 9 the pro-arrest section specifically states that 10 an officer can arrest if there is an obvious 11 evidence of abuse. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Basically - 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yeah. 14 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: But when a 16 woman has an order of protection and that order 17 is violated, will that officer be able to 18 enforce the order of protection when the man is 19 pounding on the door to come beat again or will 20 the woman have to be beaten again a second time? 21 SENATOR SALAND: There are four 22 instances in which the mandatory arrest would 23 apply. 5732 1 The first would be where the 2 officer actually observes the occurrence of the 3 incident. The second would be where the officer 4 arrives at the scene in relative proximity to 5 the occurrence of the event and has reason to 6 believe that the victim is in danger. The third 7 would be where there is an evidence of, and 8 these terms are terms that are all defined in 9 the Penal Law, Article X, Section 10 of the 10 Penal Law, physical injury, serious physical 11 injury or use of deadly physical force, and the 12 fourth would be where that occurs where there's 13 an outstanding order of protection. 14 So in that instance, if, for 15 instance, that individual was in the process of 16 attempting to break down the door, there's a 17 question of whether or not that's the use of - 18 of the kind of force, the use of deadly physical 19 force, if he were to spray the door with 20 bullets, I mean, you know, there -- there is 21 certainly codified case law. There is certainly 22 codified case law that defines when that would 23 be applicable; so I would say that in most 5733 1 instances where there was the threat of that 2 type of an injury, the ability to have a 3 mandatory arrest would occur. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: So then, 5 just to clarify, you're saying that, if the 6 woman has an order of protection and she's been 7 battered once and the batterer is again at the 8 door knocking very hard, that the opportunity 9 for pro-arrest would again occur? 10 SENATOR SALAND: You're going to 11 have to speak up just a little bit, Senator. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That there 13 had already been a pro-arrest because of one 14 battery, and the woman had an order of 15 protection now, and the batterer was again at 16 the door pounding, that the police would come 17 and arrest again, pro-arrest? 18 SENATOR SALAND: The police could 19 come and, if they observed what was going on, 20 they would have the ability to make the arrest. 21 The question would be if they arrived at the 22 scene and the man had left and the woman -- and 23 we're talking women 95 to 98 percent of the time 5734 1 here. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Right. 3 SENATOR SALAND: -- and the woman 4 was to say, "The guy was at my door, he's my 5 husband, my ex-husband, and he was pounding away 6 at the door, I was fearful for my life, I 7 thought that the door was going to give," that 8 would be somewhere within the gray area as to 9 whether or not that amounted to deadly physical 10 force. 11 If he were shouting out and the 12 neighbors heard, I'm going to kill you, I'm 13 going to kill you, and, you know, he -- someone 14 saw him with the gun on his -- on his person or 15 perhaps some other -- some other weapon, then 16 you, I believe, have something that gets from 17 gray closer to black. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: What - 19 what concerns some of the women's groups is that 20 it sort of becomes a potential two-beating 21 process. You have to get beaten. 22 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry. I 23 heard you say "potential". 5735 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Potential - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Oppenheimer, if you could speak up a little 4 bit. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Speak up! 6 SENATOR SALAND: May be more of a 7 problem of my hearing than your voice. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Potentially 9 a two-beating instead of a one-beating procedure 10 and that's of concern to many women's groups. 11 Let me just mention one last 12 thing, if you will yield again. Only in our 13 state is it required that the woman choose 14 between Criminal and Family Court. Now, you 15 have put in a little more lenient time frames, 16 but it still requires the woman to make a 17 choice; she can not just bring it in Family or 18 just bring it in Criminal or bring it in both at 19 the same time as is available in every other 20 state. 21 Could you explain why that isn't 22 available? 23 SENATOR SALAND: Well, first let 5736 1 me say that, going back to the examples I gave 2 you, briefly, where there has been evidence of 3 allegations of physical injury, serious physical 4 injury, or use of deadly physical force, at that 5 point you have the ability if you're the victim 6 who is alleging that that has occurred, 7 notwithstanding the fact that you started off in 8 Family Court and notwithstanding the fact that 9 the current three-day rule would prevent you 10 from asking for a transfer to criminal court, 11 under this bill whether it's three days, four 12 days, five days, ten days, twelve days, you have 13 the ability to make that application. The court 14 can do it on its own because the court believes 15 the allegations to be such as to warrant that 16 transfer, and the court can still retain 17 jurisdiction to handle the contempt for the 18 violation of an order of protection, were there 19 a prior order of protection, or you can do it 20 yourself. So the court can do it on its own 21 motion; the applicant can make the motion. 22 Now, under the two proceedings 23 are two different proceedings. There is the 5737 1 Family Court proceeding which is a civil court 2 proceeding and the criminal court proceeding. 3 You have a different standard of evidence in the 4 Family Court proceeding than you do in the 5 criminal court proceeding. 6 You have the ability if you are 7 engaged in the Family Court proceeding to have 8 anything you say or do used in the criminal 9 court proceeding. So the reality is, such as 10 occurs in child neglect -- or child neglect - 11 more appropriately child abuse cases, that the 12 pending proceeding in a Family Court family 13 offense proceeding where there is any kind of 14 serious allegations will be stayed because, 15 number one, the defendant -- or respondent in 16 the Family Court proceeding is not going to go 17 forward because they have the risk of having 18 whatever it is that they will say or whatever it 19 is that they will admit in a court proceeding 20 with a lesser standard of evidence used against 21 them in a criminal proceeding. 22 So, as a practical matter, the 23 Family Court proceeding will not go forward. 5738 1 What we're saying is there are cases that are so 2 outrageous that the victim -- and, again, I'm 3 saying 95 and 98 percent of the time it's going 4 to be a woman -- the victim should have the 5 ability, notwithstanding the fact that she may 6 have chosen Family Court initially, because of 7 the injury, because of the use of deadly 8 physical force, to not have to be forever bound 9 when the sanctions of the criminal court would 10 be more appropriate. 11 We think it's a blend of the two 12 systems that realistically recognizes the 13 practices as they occur in these courts today 14 and gives those victims who have truly sustained 15 the worst kinds of attacks, the worst kinds of 16 injuries, those victims who have met with the 17 use of deadly physical force, have sustained 18 serious injuries or physical injury, to say, 19 "We're out of here. You know, I was steered to 20 the Family Court or I went to the Family Court 21 on my own have volition, but this is more 22 appropriately a criminal court action and I want 23 to go there." 5739 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Then, what 2 you are saying, if I understand, is that the 3 72-hour provision that after that time has 4 elapsed the victim can still choose to go to 5 another jurisdiction? 6 SENATOR SALAND: In these 7 instances that I discussed with you before. 8 That would not be the case, for 9 instance, in a harassment situation. If it were 10 harassment and you chose as your forum the 11 Family Court, if the 72-hour period ran, that 12 would not -- you would not be able to avail 13 yourself of that option to go to the criminal 14 court. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you 16 would just yield one more time? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: If you 18 would yield for one more question? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. And let me 20 just add that in this bill we also change the 21 72-hour period to a three-day period exclusive 22 of court holidays and week ends. So it does 23 expand that three-day period a bit longer. 5740 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I guess one 2 of the things that confounds me is why it isn't 3 simply open indefinitely like it is in every 4 other state? 5 I think I don't have a question. 6 I think I will just talk on the bill for a 7 moment. 8 This is a good bill, and I would 9 urge my colleagues to vote for it. I think it 10 can be improved. I am concerned that it is an 11 omnibus bill and, therefore, probably will not 12 be successful in the Assembly unless it is 13 broken out into -- you know, the individual 14 parts, because - 15 SENATOR SALAND: I can assure 16 you, Senator, that we are genuinely interested, 17 determined to negotiate. My fear is that given 18 the amount of time left in this session that 19 that might prove to be too difficult to 20 accomplish, but that doesn't mean that we're not 21 going to try. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 23 certainly wish you well and hope that you can 5741 1 address some of the questions that I have 2 raised. And also when you were -- I see in your 3 bill you talk about the training of police 4 officers which I think is very valuable because 5 there is a lot that isn't done, a lot of more 6 sensitivity that can be brought to this issue. 7 But I will be coming to you with 8 bills that also would entail training of the 9 medical profession and those people that see on 10 the first instance these victims, because they 11 need training too, and they have to be 12 sensitized to the kind of questions that should 13 be asked and the kind of help that you suggest 14 should be offered through a resource and a 15 referral system. So that's it. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Goodman and then Senator Jones. He asked for 19 recognition first, Senator Jones. 20 Senator Goodman. 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 22 I would like to add my warm congratulations to 23 Senator Saland for this very signal and 5742 1 significant piece of legislation and to say that 2 the Senate Investigations Committee, of which I 3 am chairman, had occasion within the past two 4 years to make an investigation and to issue a 5 report on the matter of domestic violence. 6 It was the finding of this report 7 and of other material that had been gathered by 8 our committee that the largest single cause of 9 injury to women in the United States is domestic 10 violence. 11 I first became aware of this 12 problem when a few years ago I had in my employ 13 a secretary, and this secretary from time to 14 time would come to the office, the district 15 office, wearing sunglasses. On one particularly 16 cloudy day when there was no glare, I inquired, 17 "Why do I notice occasionally you are wearing 18 sunglasses?" and she removed her sunglasses to 19 reveal very heavy bruises about her eyes, and I 20 said, "What happened to you?" 21 At that point, she said, "May I 22 come in to see you privately for just a moment?" 23 and she revealed that she was the victim of 5743 1 repeated wife battering. And listening to her 2 story was the first insight I ever had into the 3 nature of this type of problem in which there is 4 a curious ambiguity of sentiment that often 5 envelops particularly women in this type of 6 situation. 7 They cherish the original idea 8 they had of a marriage of two loving people, of 9 great reluctance to defend themselves in the 10 conventional sense of the word, but in this 11 particular case this involved a spouse, a 12 husband, who was a repeated drinker and every 13 time he imbibed beyond a certain point, he would 14 become violent and thrash his wife. 15 It was partly because of that 16 that we were impelled in the Investigations 17 Committee to have a look at the broader problem, 18 and we had a series of public hearings in which 19 certain women came before us requesting 20 anonymity so their identities were concealed, 21 and they told a shocking series of stories about 22 what had befallen them at the hands of their 23 husbands. 5744 1 Mr. President, we then proceeded 2 to draft a package of bills, but upon learning 3 that Senator Saland and his very expert staff, 4 some of whom are alumni of Senator Mary 5 Goodhue's staff, had been working on the 6 problem, we readily acceded to them to take the 7 lead in this matter, and I must say I'm glad we 8 did because their expertise and the sensitivity 9 and care with which they assembled the omnibus 10 bill before us is an outstanding example of 11 legislative accomplishment. 12 Also, I feel quite confident in 13 suggesting that what will happen to this 14 legislation will be because of a bipartisan 15 understanding that this is a problem we cannot 16 allow to fester and to molder and to delay 17 further with a solution to. I think it's 18 imperative that before this session of the 19 Legislature concludes that we try to get some 20 sort of assistance in the passage of this bill 21 in both houses, because its approach simply 22 reflects the basic common sense necessity of 23 what to do to protect beleaguered women or 5745 1 spouses. Indeed, there are about three or four 2 percent of total instances involving the reverse 3 situation in which the male is battered. 4 But the specific aspects of this 5 bill involving more aggressive police and 6 judicial intervention, involving longer orders 7 of protection, and the surrender of firearms, 8 immediate warrants of arrest and immediate 9 arrest warrants issued by the court and a 10 mandatory arrest policy for on-scene law 11 enforcement intervention, and the ability that 12 Senator Saland has just described very lucidly 13 of transferring between the criminal and Family 14 Court, principally from Family to criminal, 15 where there are particular characteristic of 16 violent -- characteristics of violence that 17 demand police intervention mark this as a very 18 major step forward in providing much needed 19 protection. 20 I end as I began. Violence to 21 women domestically is the largest cause of 22 injury to women in the United States. We know 23 the problem. We know what to do about it. It's 5746 1 time to pass Senator Saland's excellent bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Jones. 4 SENATOR JONES: Yes. On the 5 bill. 6 I, first of all, agree that 7 Senator Saland should be congratulated because 8 I'm told this is the first real effort on the 9 part of the Senate to deal with this issue. 10 I've also been working with 11 Senator Oppenheimer, including in my own city of 12 Rochester where we've had hearings on this 13 issue. I've not only found them enlightening 14 but as well frightening to me and all the things 15 that Senator Goodman said are certainly true. 16 What I have learned is it's not 17 unique to poor, it's not unique to any kind of 18 economic background, racial background. It's a 19 very pervasive thing in our society and a very 20 scary thing as it should be to all of us. 21 I'm a little concerned again that 22 it seems around here we keep working in the 23 vacuum. I've looked at some bills that have 5747 1 already passed in the Assembly, and I guess I 2 still continue to be concerned why we can't seem 3 to get our efforts together here and really do 4 something for these people. 5 I'm hoping. I was encouraged by 6 hearing Senator Saland say that he is going to 7 keep working on this. There are three bills 8 that do deal with the issues that Senator 9 Oppenheimer brought up that have already passed 10 in the Assembly. 11 So, hopefully, we can either 12 incorporate these into this or pass those as 13 well that might tighten up some of the other 14 loopholes. 15 I think the future of our society 16 depends on us dealing with these issues now. 17 There are children in these families that this 18 cycle is going to continue if something isn't 19 done. We need to give these women every bit of 20 support we can, whether it's legally, medically 21 or emotionally. 22 And I'm very pleased to be able 23 to support this bill and hope it's only the 5748 1 beginning of every effort we can make to correct 2 this situation and help the victims of domestic 3 violence. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 26. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, 8 just a moment. 9 Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 11 one comment if I may. 12 There are communities in this 13 state that have adopted pro-arrest policies, and 14 I just wanted the record to be clear that this 15 certainly does not preempt those communities 16 that have done that. Those that meet or exceed 17 what's in this bill certainly will be free to 18 continue those policies. 19 And I would be remiss if I didn't 20 thank Senator Skelos and Senator Goodman and 21 Senator Marino for their interest in this 22 measure and their assistance in putting together 23 the final bill. 5749 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 26. This 4 act shall take effect January 1, 1994. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Mendez. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: To explain my 15 vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: To 17 explain her vote. 18 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 I really want to congratulate 21 Senator Saland for beginning to deal with an 22 issue that is increasingly horrible in the homes 23 where women and children and lovers and whatever 5750 1 do live, the problem of domestic violence. 2 I believe that this is a good 3 start. However, I have a preoccupation, Mr. 4 President, and that is that there are no 5 provisions here to ensure that the batterer is 6 removed, too, from the home and for the woman 7 and the children to stay there. 8 Everybody knows that children 9 that are growing up in a hell home of domestic 10 violence, they suffer tremendous anxiety; 11 however, they have their own little friends and 12 they go to school, and during those hours the 13 school serves as a buffer to the problems at 14 home. By removing them and the women from their 15 home and leaving the batterer there with 16 whatever comforts exist there, we are not 17 helping the children and we are not helping the 18 women. 19 So, therefore, I hope that in the 20 future Senator Saland would consider introducing 21 legislation or working with the different 22 women's groups to in fact ensure that the 23 batterer also do have an option to receive 5751 1 psychiatric care rather than just jail. There 2 should be jail, but there should be the option 3 of psychiatric care. And the women and the 4 children should remain home. 5 So, Mr. President, I vote aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 7 some housekeeping, Senator Present. 8 Senator Sears. 9 SENATOR SEARS: Mr. President, on 10 page 16, Calendar Number 753, Print Number 11 5546A, I inadvertently voted no on that bill. I 12 would like to be recorded in the affirmative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 roll will so show. 15 Senator Marchi. 16 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 17 Calendar Number 1158, I wish to remove a star. 18 That is Assembly Print 2396A. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1158, 20 the star is removed at the request of the 21 sponsor. 22 Senator Johnson. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 5752 1 I wish to call up bill Print Number 5540, 2 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 3 desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Secretary will read it. 6 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 7 Johnson, Senate Bill Number 5540, an act to 8 amend the Retirement and Social Security Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Johnson. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 12 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 13 bill was passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 16 (The secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is before the house. 21 Senator Johnson. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 23 I now offer the following amendments. 5753 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Amendments received. The bill will retain its 3 place. 4 Senator Saland. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 6 on page 15, I offer the following amendments to 7 Calendar Number 729, Senate 3105C, and ask the 8 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 9 Calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 amendments are received. 12 Senator Seward. 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. On behalf 14 of Senator Levy, I wish to call up his bill 15 Print Number 5684, which has been recalled from 16 the Assembly and now at the desk. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Levy, 18 Senate Bill Number 5684, amends Chapter 268 of 19 the Laws of 1989. 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 21 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 22 bill was passed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5754 1 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 2 (The secretary called the roll on 3 reconsideration. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is before the house. 7 Senator Seward. 8 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 9 now offer the following amendments. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Amendments received. The bill will retain its 12 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 13 Senator Mendez. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 15 request unanimous consent to be recorded on the 16 negative on Calendar Number 165, 456 and 17 1-2-5-6. 165, 456, and 1256. Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 19 you. The rolls will be corrected. 20 Senator Kuhl. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, on 22 page 12, I offer the following amendments to 23 Calendar Number 648, Senate Print 3283A, and ask 5755 1 that said bill retain its place on the Third 2 Reading Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Amendments are received. The bill will retain 5 its place. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Also, Mr. 8 President, on behalf of Senator Larkin, I wish 9 to call up his bill, Print Number 4354, which 10 was recalled from the Assembly, which is now at 11 the desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 Secretary will read Senator Larkin's bill. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 4354, an act to amend 16 the Education Law. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 18 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 19 bill was passed. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration. ) 5756 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is before the house. 4 SENATOR KUHL: I offer up the 5 following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Amendments are received. The bill will retain 8 its place. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are 11 there any other motions on the floor? 12 Senator Montgomery. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Mr. 14 President, with unanimous consent, I would like 15 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 456. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 456, 17 Senator Montgomery will be in the negative. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Seeing 20 no other motions on the floor, I see Senator 21 Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 I'd ask that the Senate stand at ease for a few 5757 1 moments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will stand at ease for just a few 4 moments. 5 (Whereupon, at 5:55 p.m., the 6 Senate was at ease. ) 7 (Whereupon, at 6:10 p.m., Senate 8 reconvened. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 10 will come to order. 11 Senator Present, we have a 12 message from the Assembly and from the Governor. 13 The chair hands down a message 14 from the Assembly. 15 The Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly sent 17 the following bill for concurrence: 18 Assembly Bill Number 8645, by the 19 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend 20 Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1974, amending the 21 Emergency Housing Rent Control Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 23 objection, the bill goes to Third Reading. 5758 1 Senator Present, there is a 2 message. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I understand there is a message from the 5 Governor at the desk, and I move we accept that 6 message. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 8 favor of accepting the message from the 9 Governor, say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Those opposed, nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message is accepted. 14 Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Present. 5759 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 there being no further business, I move we 3 adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow at 6 1:30. 7 (Whereupon, at 6:14 p.m., Senate 8 adjourned.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23