Thursday, June 24, 1993

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 24, 1993 11 2:24 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please 4 find their seats. If you will please rise with 5 me for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 8 Today we're pleased to have with 9 us as visiting clergy the Rabbi Hyman Levine, 10 Bayside Terrace Jewish Center of Bayside, New 11 York. 12 Rabbi Levine. 13 RABBI LEVINE: Would you all 14 kindly rise for the opening prayer. 15 Ever living God, Creator of all, 16 we invoke Thy divine blessing upon the men and 17 women of this assemblage of New York State 18 Senators, who appreciate and value the spiritual 19 gift of representative government. Bestow upon 20 them courage and judicious judgment, for they 21 are charged with the responsibilities of guiding 22 and conducting the affairs of our beloved 23 state. May they never lose sight of their 1 obligations to advance the good and welfare of 2 all the people within its borders. May this 3 noble body be inspired to formulate policies 4 which will ensure justice and peace for every 5 one. 6 Heavenly Father, endow all of the 7 people of this state with understanding that we 8 are sisters and brothers sharing our common 9 humanity, duties and ideals. Amidst a strife 10 torn world and ever increasing divisiveness 11 everywhere, we pray that the time may not be 12 distant when the darkness of prejudice will give 13 way to the light of Thy love, O Lord, and may 14 the light of Thy love help us to usher in that 15 long awaited era when everyone will enjoy the 16 blessings of freedom from want and fear, when 17 peace and harmony will fill the hearts of all 18 Thy children everywhere. Amen. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 20 you, Rabbi. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Stavisky. 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: I know it's 2 not customary to make any remarks, but I do wish 3 the record to reflect that Rabbi Levine is the 4 spiritual leader of the Bay Terrace Jewish 5 Center and, by the way, he represents Senator 6 Onorato. He has seniority over both of us in 7 the representation spiritually. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 9 you. Thank you, sir. 10 The Secretary will begin by 11 reading the Journal. 12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 13 Wednesday, June 23rd. The Senate met pursuant to 14 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 15 designation of the Temporary President. The 16 Journal of Tuesday, June 22nd, was read and 17 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 19 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 20 read. 21 The order of business: 22 Presentation of petitions. 23 Messages from the Assembly. 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 Reports of select committees. 4 Communications and reports from 5 state officers. 6 Motions and resolutions. We have 7 some motions on the floor. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 I would move that we adopt the Resolution 11 Calendar that's on our desks. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 13 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar, say 14 aye. 15 ((Response of "Aye.") 16 Those opposed nay. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 The Resolution Calendar is 19 adopted. 20 I thought that we passed it. 21 Senator Present, our good Secretary passed over 22 the report of a standing committee, if I may 23 back up and do that. Secretary will read a 1 report of a standing committee. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 4 following bills directly for third reading: 5 Senate Bill Number 26-A, by 6 Senator Tully, an act to amend the Public Health 7 Law; 8 1493, by Senator Espada, 9 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 10 interest in certain real property; 11 1568, by Senator Johnson, an act 12 to amend the Tax Law; 13 1589, by Senator Onorato, 14 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 15 interest in certain real property; 16 2020-A, by Senator Spano and 17 others, Mental Hygiene Law and the General 18 Municipal Law; 19 3110, by Senator Skelos, an act 20 to amend the General Business Law; 21 3176, by Senator LaValle, an act 22 to amend the Education Law; 23 3944, by Senator Sears, 1 Agriculture and Markets Law; 2 4099-A, by Senator Spano, Vehicle 3 and Traffic Law; 4 4186, by Senator Bruno, an act to 5 amend the Public Authorities Law; 6 4247, by Senator Tully, 7 authorizing the assessor of the county of Nassau 8 to accept an application for exemption; 9 5253, by Senator -- Senators Daly 10 and others, Real Property Law; 11 5666-A, by Senator Trunzo, Civil 12 Service Law, in relation to the duration of 13 civil service eligible lists; 14 5672, by -- 5672-A, by Senator 15 Saland, Agriculture and Markets Law; 16 5917, by Senator Johnson, an act 17 to amend the Education Law; 18 5918, by Senator Padavan, Mental 19 Hygiene Law; 20 5921, by Senator Trunzo, amends 21 Chapter 509 of the Laws of 1992; 22 5959, by Senator Maltese, Civil 23 Service Law; 1 5991, by the Senate Committee on 2 Rules, Racing, Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding 3 Law; 4 All bills reported directly for 5 third reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 7 bills are reported directly to third reading. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 I believe Senator Marino has a privileged 11 resolution at the desk. May we have the title 12 read and acted upon. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 14 the Secretary please read Senator Marino's 15 privileged resolution. 16 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 17 Resolution, by Senator Marino, honoring William 18 Pattison of Hauppauge upon the occasion of his 19 retirement following a distinguished career of 20 33 years with the Nassau County Police 21 Department. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 23 favor of the resolution, say aye. 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Those opposed nay. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 The resolution is adopted. 5 Senator Kuhl, do you have a 6 motion? 7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 8 President. I have several of them. On behalf 9 of Senator Seward, on page number 7, I offer the 10 following amendments to Calendar Number 315, 11 Senate Print Number 2518, and ask that said bill 12 retain its place on third reading. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill 14 will retain its place; amendments are received. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Also on behalf of 16 Senator Daly, on page 11, I offer the following 17 amendments to Calendar Number 651, Senate Print 18 4583-A and ask that said bill retain its place 19 on the Third Reading Calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 21 objection, the bill will retain its place. 22 SENATOR KUHL: And on behalf of 23 Senator Spano, on page 35, I offer the following 1 amendments to Calendar Number 1297, Senate Print 2 5909, and ask that said bill retain its place on 3 the Third Reading Calendar. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Amendments are received. The bills will retain 6 their places. 7 Senator Volker. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 9 on page 22, I offer the following amendments to 10 Calendar Number 907, Senate Print Number 4870-A, 11 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 12 Third Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Amendments are received. Bill will retain its 15 place. 16 Senator Marchi. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 18 on page 22, I offer the following amendments on 19 Calendar Number 900, Senate Print Number 3919-B 20 and request in an it retain its place on the 21 Third Reading Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 23 objection, amendments are received, the bill 1 will retain its place. 2 Senator Mega. 3 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, on 4 behalf of Senator Stafford, on page 29, I offer 5 the following amendments to Calendar Number 6 1236, Senate Print Number 5866, and ask that 7 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading 8 Calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 10 objection. 11 SENATOR MEGA: On behalf of 12 Senator Skelos, Mr. President, I wish to call up 13 his Senate Print 568-A, recalled from the 14 Assembly which is now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Secretary will read 568-A. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Skelos, an act to amend the Real Property Law 19 and the Banking Law, in relation to reverse 20 mortgages. 21 SENATOR MEGA: I now move to 22 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 23 passed. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is before the house. 8 Senator Mega. 9 SENATOR MEGA: I now offer up the 10 following amendments. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Amendments are received. The bill will retain 13 its place. 14 Senator Present, we have some 15 subs. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Leet's make the 17 substitutions. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Secretary will read the substitutions. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 21 Senator Levy moves to discharge the Committee on 22 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6113-B and 23 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 1 186. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Substitution ordered. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 5 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the Committee 6 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7979 and 7 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 8 1279. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Substitution ordered. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 12 Senator Larkin moves to discharge the Committee 13 on Local Government from Assembly Bill Number 14 2634 and substitute it for the identical 15 Calendar Number 1281. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 19 Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 8035-A, and substitute it for the identical 22 Third Reading 1283. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1 Substitution is ordered. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 34, 3 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee 4 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6837, and 5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6 1286. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Substitution is ordered. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 34, 10 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee 11 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6838 and 12 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 13 1289. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 34, 17 Senator Wright moves to discharge the Committee 18 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6842 and 19 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 20 1290. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Substitution ordered. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 36, 1 Senator Volker moves to discharge the Committee 2 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8420 and 3 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 4 1299. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Substitution ordered. 7 THE SECRETARY: On page 42, 8 Senator Libous moves to discharge the Committee 9 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6199-B and 10 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 11 894. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 13 Substitution ordered. 14 Are there any other motions on 15 the floor? 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 take up the non-controversial calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Non-controversial, the Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 8, 22 Calendar Number 395, by Senator Kuhl. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for 1 the day, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside for the day. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 806, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 6 2744-A, an act to amend the Education Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 808, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4341-A, 19 an act to amend the Education Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly, 9 Assembly Bill Number 2396-A. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1185, by Senator Masiello. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day 16 on that? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 -- lay it aside for the day, Senator Present. 19 (Senator Present nods head.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 21 Number - 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Senate 808 3 which we just passed, I'm informed that Senator 4 Oppenheimer wanted that laid aside. Could we 5 reconsider that vote, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll on reconsideration of 808. 8 (The Secretary called the roll on 9 reconsideration. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1217, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number - 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 16 today. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 18 aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1234, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 21 5808, an act to amend the Public Service Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1250, by Senator Hannon. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 13 the day, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 15 aside for today. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5263. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay this aside 19 for the day. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 21 this aside for today. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1255, by Senator Holland. 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay aside for 2 the day, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 4 aside for the day. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 7 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General 8 Municipal Law, in relation to - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 14 5900, an act to amend the Environmental 15 Conservation Law and the Economic - 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1263, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill - 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 23 aside. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1264, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 3 5931, amend the Administrative Code of the city 4 of New York. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Trunzo has a home rule message here at the 7 desk. You can read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1269, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 18 3211-A, Administrative Code of the city of New 19 York. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day 21 on that? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 23 temporarily. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 2 aside temporarily. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1270, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 5 3355, authorizing the re-opening of the 20-year 6 retirement plan to police officers. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 8 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 9 read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 16 one, Senator Galiber recorded in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1271, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3718, 21 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Wasn't this passed 23 last week, this one? 1 SENATOR KUHL: No. 2 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1272, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 3747, 15 authorizing Robert Leib to make application for 16 a disability retirement allowance. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 3, 2 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 3 the negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1273, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 3763, relation to allowing certain employees of 9 the East Ramapo Central School District to 10 transfer service credit. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 3, 19 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 20 the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 1274, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 2 3811-A, State Administrative Procedure Act. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1275, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 10 4492-A, an act to amend the Insurance - 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1276, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4593, 16 making certain findings and determinations with 17 respect to certain bond anticipation renewal 18 notes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 20 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 21 read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1277, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 4645, 9 in relation to employees of the Mental Hygiene 10 Legal Services. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1278, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 23 4669-A, Retirement and Social Security Law and 1 the Administrative Code of the city of New 2 York. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1279, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 15 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7979, 16 amends Chapter 929 of the Laws of 1986, amending 17 the Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1280, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 7 4811, an act to amend the Tax Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1281, substituted earlier today, by member of 20 the Assembly Robach, Assembly Bill Number 2634, 21 Real Property Tax Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1282, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 5480, 11 authorizing the town of Rosendale to discontinue 12 the use of certain park lands. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 14 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 15 read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1283, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 3 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8035-A, 4 an act to amend the Town Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1284, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 17 5692, Retirement and Social Security Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Pataki has a home rule message here, so you can 20 read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1285, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 5741, 8 amends Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991, amending 9 the Tax Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1286, substituted earlier today, by member of 22 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number 23 6837, State Administrative Procedure Act. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1287, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 13 5818, State Administrative Procedure Act. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1288, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 3 5819-A, State Administrative Procedure Act. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Could we have 13 that laid aside, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Withdraw the roll call. 16 SENATOR GOLD: No, go on. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Continue the roll call on 1288. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1289, substituted yearly earlier today, by 1 member of the Assembly Seabrook, State 2 Administrative Procedure Act. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside for 4 Senator Leichter. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 6 that bill aside for Senator Leichter. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1290, substituted earlier today, by member of 9 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number 10 6842, State Administrative Procedure Act. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1291, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5825, 23 relation to the allocation and utilization of 1 certain monies. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1292, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 9 5834, an act to amend the Environmental 10 Conservation Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1294, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 16 5838, an act to amend the General Municipal Law 17 and the Personal Property Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1295, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 7 5841-A, proposing an amendment to the 8 Constitution. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 10 aside. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day 12 on that? 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 14 for today. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 16 aside for today. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1296, by Senator Jones, Senate Bill Number 5891, 19 making certain findings and determinations with 20 respect to certain revenue anticipation notes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Jones has a home rule message here at the desk. 23 You can read the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1298, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 11 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 12 8498 and substitute it for the identical Third 13 Reading 1298. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution ordered. Read the last section of 16 Senator Stafford's bill. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1299, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 4 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8420, 5 an act to amend the General Business Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1300, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 18 Bill Number 5962, amends Chapter 1040 of the 19 Laws of 1981. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 shall we take up the controversial calendar, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Whatever you wish. The controversial calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page 17, 14 Calendar Number 808, by Senator Cook, Senate 15 Bill Number 4341-A, an act to amend the 16 Education Law. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 18 President. If the Majority Leader would consent 19 to just pass it temporarily, Senator Oppenheimer 20 is on her way into the chamber but maybe we can 21 do something and come back, and we'll take care 22 of it today. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 1 temporarily. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 3 aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 27, 5 Calendar Number 1158, by member of the Assembly 6 Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 2396-A, 7 Environmental Conservation Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 11 aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 14 Bill Number 5853, an act to amend the General 15 Municipal Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Explanation has been asked for. 19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Maltese. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: This bill 23 provides that no rule or regulation affecting 1 the operation of a city, town or village police 2 department may be promulgated, amended or 3 enforced to decrease the number of police 4 officers assigned to individual police vehicles 5 without a detailed comprehensive review of the 6 safety risks involved as well as the impact the 7 amendments would have upon the safety of the 8 police officers involved and the community which 9 the officers would serve. 10 After this review, any 11 determination made subsequent to this review 12 required by these provisions would be review 13 able de novo by the Industrial Board of 14 Appeals. 15 Mr. President, the problem of 16 police cars, cars manned by law enforcement 17 officers, manned by single law enforcement 18 officers, is one that has come up in this 19 chamber many times. There is no question that 20 police officers who are alone in cars are more 21 susceptible to attack, to injury and ultimately 22 to death. 23 We have an absolute obligation, 1 Mr. President, to try to protect as much as 2 possible our police officers. I have here a 3 table which was forwarded to me by the Federal 4 Bureau of Investigation, the Law Enforcement 5 Support Section. It refers to a title, Law 6 Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed 1982 to 7 1991, circumstances by type of assignment. It 8 goes on at length, Mr. President, but the main 9 point which I wish to allude to in reference to 10 this legislation is the fact that out of - 11 during that time span, out of a total of 743 12 officers killed, 94 were killed in a vehicle 13 manned by two officers and during that very same 14 time, 237 were killed when they were alone in a 15 police vehicle responding to a call. In 16 addition, of those who had called for assistance 17 or were in some way assisted, an additional 131 18 were killed. 19 Now, Mr. President, at a time 20 when we are demanding of our police officers 21 more and more discretion, when we are demanding 22 of them that they refrain from unnecessary 23 shooting, even the unnecessary drawing of their 1 weapons from the holsters, it seems to me that 2 we must provide adequate back-up in the form of 3 at least this legislation, that at the very 4 least where there may be a municipal authority 5 that is willing, for the sake of various fiscal 6 considerations to put the lives of our officers 7 on the line, the least we can do for those very 8 same officers, is provide that we should have 9 some type of a comprehensive review and that 10 that review shall then be subject to some type 11 of a determination by the Industrial Board of - 12 of Appeals. 13 Mr. President, I wish to point 14 out, I'm not going to -- another paragraph which 15 I believe has reference to this from the 16 Criminal Justice Newsletter dated January of 17 1993, and this is a lengthy article -- I don't 18 see the author, but it may be just an editorial 19 -- a lengthy article referring to, in a 20 comprehensive study made of deaths of police 21 officers over a two-year period, and they speak 22 -- I'm sorry, a period between '81 and '90. 23 The reference is made of all the officers killed 1 between '81 and '90, 49 percent were assigned to 2 single officer vehicle patrol at the time of 3 their death. 4 Now, Mr. President, they, in 5 addition, refer to the fact that, in an analysis 6 made of these police officers, all the police 7 officers killed within this period of time, that 8 the majority of them were described by their 9 colleagues and comrades as trusting men. In 10 addition, they were described as people who were 11 very reluctant to draw their weapons. As a 12 matter of fact, a great deal of them had never 13 drawn their weapon, not only at the time of the 14 -- at the time of their slayings, but in the 15 period that they were police officers before 16 that, and this -- this report indicates that - 17 and the report, by the way, was also done by the 18 Federal Bureau of Investigation. 19 It says, Many of the officers' 20 procedural errors -- and they refer to errors 21 that were made outside a suggested course of 22 conduct by the FBI, not necessarily the course 23 of conduct prescribed by the local municipality 1 that they were working for, and they say many of 2 the officers' procedural errors consisted of 3 dropping their guard in various ways, failing to 4 call for back-up support when needed, acting 5 alone prior to the arrival of back-up, failing 6 to search a suspect completely, and so on. 7 The point -- and, in addition, 8 alluding to what I had previously indicated, 9 about the types of demeanor and action that we 10 require instantaneously from these officers, the 11 FBI noted that 85 percent of the victim officers 12 had not discharged their service weapons. 13 Now, Mr. President, it seems to 14 me at the least, as I had indicated previously, 15 that we should provide this measure of support. 16 We are not demanding that they have two or three 17 of four officer -- four officers in a police 18 car. It would be nice if fiscal situations were 19 such across the country and across the state 20 that we could -- that we could have that luxury 21 but at the very same time, before these officers 22 put their lives on the line, it seems to me that 23 we ought to be able to prescribe some course of 1 conduct that has to be undertaken by municipal 2 authorities prior to leaving them unprotected in 3 their police cars. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 8 President, it really seems to me that some of 9 our colleagues here really want to be doing 10 something else. I think they want to leave us 11 or I think they want to become police 12 commissioners or superintendents of police, and 13 I'm going to give to Police Commissioner Maltese 14 and Police Commissioner Velella, I'm going to 15 give you the Civil Service News, about what 16 openings there are in the city of New York or 17 around the nation that would utilize your 18 apparently profound understanding of police 19 work. But until you get one of those jobs, I 20 would hope that in this chamber, Senator 21 Maltese, you would do the job of a Senator 22 instead of this shameless intrusion into the 23 affairs of the city of New York. 1 You know, if -- it is really in 2 so many respects humorous to see you, a voice 3 for conservatism, a voice for less intrusion on 4 the part of government in the affairs of 5 localities, to get up and to mandate -- mandate 6 upon your City this sort of an additional cost 7 in -- in putting two police officers in each 8 police car. 9 Well, you say, Well, I'm not man 10 dating it, but you're setting up a system that 11 really makes it impossibility for the City. 12 This should be a matter that's determined by the 13 police commissioner. He has the responsibil 14 ity. The mayor has the responsibility and it's 15 also a matter for collective bargaining. 16 But whenever it comes to a matter 17 that the police union wants, the Majority in 18 this house is just handmaiden to the police, 19 doesn't matter how irrational, how unreasonable 20 it is, you're going to put that bill in and 21 you're going to be for it. 22 At the very least, Senator 23 Maltese, you ought to have, it seems to me 1 enough consistency to say, and I'm putting in 2 also a bill that's going to raise money for the 3 city of New York so they can pay for that. 4 You're one of the big complainers about how the 5 city of New York isn't doing services in the 6 education and this and that, although frankly, I 7 don't see you fighting for the city of New York 8 when it comes to money, but when it comes to 9 mandates -- mandates -- you're right up there. 10 Sure, put more police officers in 11 -- in police cars. Senator, that's going to 12 cost a lot of money. It means other services 13 aren't going to be provided, and I'd be 14 interested to see, we were recently joined here 15 in this chamber by a local official, Senator 16 Wright, who I understand was a very 17 distinguished local official. Wonder how he'd 18 feel if the Legislature said whatever his 19 community was -- it was in northern New York 20 State -- this Legislature said how many police 21 officers he had to have in a police car or in 22 some other respects. 23 We elect good local officials; 1 hopefully, they're good local officials. They 2 have the responsibility. I'm going to be 3 interested seeing how Senator Wright votes on 4 this. But where is our consistency? Where - 5 where -- where do we have any compass that 6 guides us as to what our responsibilities are 7 and what our responsibilities are not? 8 I don't see anything wrong if 9 Senator Maltese, as a local official coming from 10 New York, urged the mayor to do this, urged the 11 police commissioner to do it. By the way, I 12 don't think your arguments are at all 13 compelling; in fact, some of the arguments that 14 you -- that you made were, frankly, against your 15 bill. But it is a matter that has to be 16 determined by the locality. They've got to pay 17 the bill. They're responsible for the -- for 18 the police and for this continuous interference 19 by this chamber in the affairs of the city of 20 New York City, particularly when it involves the 21 police. And where anything the police does, 22 this chamber cravenly will vote it and that's 23 not in the interests of the people of the city 1 of New York, and it's just such wrong 2 government. It's not what we should be doing up 3 here. We don't have the expertise. 4 I could tell you 50 things, 5 Senator Maltese, we ought to be doing that are 6 not being done, most of which are being held up 7 by the Majority and you're going to get into 8 your private conference and close the doors and 9 behind those closed doors you're going to make 10 decisions affecting the public, and most of them 11 are refusal to put out bills that at least ought 12 to be debated. 13 I'd like to see you fight for 14 some of those things because that's what our job 15 is and not to tell the New York City Police 16 Department how they're to run the department for 17 the safety of the people of the city of New 18 York. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. Chairman, 22 I rise in answer to a question -- would the 23 sponsor answer a question? 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Maltese, would you yield to Senator Dollinger? 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 5 understand that your proposal is part of the 6 General Municipal Law and would affect cities, 7 towns and villages. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes, that's 9 correct. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And it 11 requires a detailed risk analysis as a part of 12 the - 13 SENATOR MALTESE: Well, Mr. 14 President, the analysis would be detailed, yes. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What would be 16 the anticipated cost to a village of the type of 17 analysis that you're talking about? 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 19 I believe when we're speaking of these types of 20 analysis, ordinarily just as very expeditiously 21 I was able to obtain information from the 22 Federal Bureau of Investigation and other law 23 enforcement agencies apparently stand ready to 1 provide information, it would not be so much a 2 question of the analysis of a great deal of 3 voluminous information. It would be, I think, 4 as we so often see in villages and towns and in 5 some cities, a certain amount of common sense or 6 "horse sense" as we need to say. 7 I think the evaluation of the 8 risks to police officers of law enforcement 9 officers, when you reduce personnel in cars 10 responding to police emergencies, would not 11 require the expenditure of a great deal of 12 money, would not require the expenditure of a 13 great deal of time, but would require the 14 application of common sense to circumstances 15 that would arise or could reasonably be expected 16 to arise in the performance of these police 17 officers' duties. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator 19 Maltese will continue to yield to another 20 question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Dollinger. Would you yield to another 23 question? 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Certainly. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, 3 there's nothing in this bill that requires the 4 application of common sense, is there? 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Unfortunately, 6 there isn't, and unfortunately, it seems to be a 7 thing that seems to be happening in a great deal 8 of our legislative efforts. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But this 10 requires a detailed analysis, study, in essence 11 it's a public impact study, is it not? 12 SENATOR MALTESE: Undoubtedly it 13 is a study that would have a bearing on the 14 safety of the public and the safety of the 15 police officers and the community that they 16 serve. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who is going 18 to pay the cost -- again through you, Mr. 19 President, who is going to pay the cost of that 20 study? Your bill, again, doesn't say who is 21 going to pay the cost. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 23 the municipalities or the villages and the towns 1 would, I think, incur that cost in the course of 2 the normal operations of their municipal forms 3 of government. It would not be an onerous 4 cost. It would not be a burdensome cost and, as 5 a practical matter, considering what's involved, 6 the lives of our police officers and the members 7 of the community they serve, it would certainly 8 be a cost worth undertaking. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 10 again, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If the cost 14 is so insignificant, why doesn't the bill 15 provide that the state of New York will pay that 16 cost since we certainly wouldn't want to impose 17 an unfunded mandate to perform this service on 18 the part of villages which may have very small 19 police departments, on towns which may have very 20 moderate size police departments or on cities 21 like New York or Rochester that have very large 22 police departments? Why doesn't the bill require 23 that the state of New York pick up that cost as 1 insignificant as it may be? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 the costs indicated, while I believe they would 4 be insignificant, they would also be buttressed 5 by the review to the -- to the labor board. Mr. 6 President, that cost, if it proved, in the 7 enactment of this, after the enactment of this 8 legislation, to be burdensome or onerous, I 9 would be glad to sponsor legislation calling for 10 that cost to be incurred and borne by the state 11 of New York. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In other 13 words, if it -- through you, Mr. President, in 14 other words, if it costs a lot of money, you'll 15 pay for it, but you're not willing to require 16 that we pay for it under the current 17 legislation? 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 19 it would seem that, when you have a public 20 servant, whether he be a -- an elected or 21 appointed official of a village or a town or a 22 city, there are certain burdens and obligations 23 he assumes, and one is to protect the -- first, 1 probably the paramount and possibly most 2 important duty and obligation is to protect the 3 lives of those residents residing within that 4 area of government. This is the paramount 5 consideration for them. 6 It would seem, then, that they 7 would be perfectly willing to undertake not only 8 whatever obligations are called for in this 9 bill, but to whatever insignificant costs would 10 be also called for or incurred as a result of 11 this bill. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you 13 again - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you 17 again, Mr. President, if Senator Maltese would 18 yield to another question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 20 you yield to another question? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who pays the 22 cost of the de novo appeal to the Industrial 23 Board of Appeals, and I assume the inevitable 1 court appeal on after that? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 those -- the appeal is a relatively simple 4 appeal. It could be done by simple petition. 5 It could be done by a written petition which 6 would not require more than one paragraph of - 7 of writing or a piece of paper calling for the 8 appeal. 9 The appeal ordinarily would go to 10 the board; in this case it -- it would be 11 required de novo simply because it could perhaps 12 go into an investigation or go into an analysis 13 that would be possibly inadequate or possibly 14 not as detailed as it should be, so that the 15 board, the Industrial Board, would be able to 16 look at it de novo to see whether or not the 17 decision of the local government should be 18 confirmed or affirmed. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 20 final question again, Mr. President, through you 21 to Senator Maltese. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: One 23 question. 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What 2 knowledge do you have that the New York State 3 Industrial Board of Appeals has any experience 4 or expertise in resolving issues related to 5 public safety in villages or towns throughout 6 New York State? What is the basis for their 7 knowledge that gives them the particular 8 expertise to be able to do that? 9 My understanding of the 10 Industrial Board of Appeals that it considers 11 wage disputes, prevailing wage disputes, things 12 under our New York State Labor Law. Are you 13 aware of anything else in New York State law 14 that gives the New York State Industrial Board 15 of Appeals jurisdiction over public safety? 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 17 I was hoping that Senator Dollinger would ask 18 that question. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I tried. 20 SENATOR MALTESE: I have before 21 me the Labor Law, section 21, and it cites the 22 powers and duties of the Commissioner and the 23 Industrial Labor Boards, and it provides that 1 they shall provide a method of encouraging 2 employers and employees in their efforts to 3 reduce the number of safety and health hazards 4 arising -- safety; I stress the word "safety" 5 and health hazards arising from undesirable, 6 inappropriate or unnecessary working conditions 7 at the work place and of stimulating employers 8 and employees to instigate new, and to perfect 9 existing programs for providing safe and 10 healthful working conditions. 11 It seems to me, Mr. President, 12 that there couldn't be anything that would be 13 more conducive to violating a section that calls 14 for safety and health, overseeing -- the 15 possible overseeing of safety and health 16 hazards, and this board again presumably would 17 hear these types of petitions from across the 18 entire state and would have more expertise in 19 handling them. 20 As far as whether or not they 21 would know intimately the problems of villages 22 or towns, that would depend on -- on the 23 Governor's appointees to this board and those 1 that -- those members of the board, those three 2 members of the board who would be subject to 3 Senate confirmation. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 5 Mr. President, on the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 7 bill, Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think 9 Senator Maltese's reaction -- response to my 10 question highlights the problem with this bill, 11 one of the problems with this bill. The section 12 that he read gives the Industrial Board of 13 Appeals jurisdiction over certain labor 14 relations issues that affect public health and 15 safety, for example, the state OSHA rules. 16 I think there are other areas in 17 which the New York State Board of Industrial 18 Appeals has jurisdiction, but we don't turn over 19 to the Industrial Board of Appeals the issues of 20 public safety. We've got a whole apparatus of 21 public safety. We've got a Department of 22 Criminal Justice. We've got all kinds of 23 experience sitting in agency buildings in this 1 city to deal with criminal justice issues that 2 deal with public safety issues. 3 If there's a review that ought to 4 be planned, it ought to go there. It shouldn't 5 go to the Board of Industrial Appeals. We're 6 directing it to the wrong place, and I would 7 submit, Mr. President, that that's the over 8 simplification from which this proposal 9 suffers. 10 I'd just give one quick example. 11 You have a village, a little tiny village, that 12 has a police department. They're going to 13 reduce the number of people on the vehicles. 14 The mayor of the village runs on a campaign in 15 which he says I'm going to reduce the number of 16 people in the cars from two to one. He runs, he 17 wins a hundred to nothing, on that campaign 18 because the taxpayers conclude they don't want 19 to pay for that additional public safety. 20 Whatever benefit there may be to it, and I 21 agree, Senator Maltese, there may be some 22 benefit of having two people in a car or three 23 officers in a car. As Senator Leichter said, 1 there may be an advantage to having five of them 2 in a car, but the public rises up and says, 3 unanimously a hundred to nothing, we don't want 4 to pay for that. 5 What this law would do is say, 6 Oh-oh that isn't your decision, sorry, public. 7 Even though you unanimously elected one person 8 who ran on that platform we're going to require 9 you, the town, the village, to spend and I 10 disagree with Senator Maltese, compare it to an 11 environmental impact statement, I think if you 12 look at the legislative history of environmental 13 impact statements, you will see that when we 14 originally embarked on that course of conduct, 15 we said, Oh, don't worry, environmental impact 16 statements won't be a big deal; you'll put a 17 couple pieces together; you'll describe how many 18 trees there are, and it will all be taken care 19 of. It won't be a big problem. 20 Instead, in this comprehensive 21 detailed study of public safety, I submit that 22 that is going to cost an awful lot of money to 23 the local communities, that it's constantly 1 going to be appealed to the board, Industrial 2 Board of Appeals, because of the nature of the 3 labor dispute that gives rise to those kinds of 4 discussions. 5 We have a labor relations agency; 6 it's called the Public Employment Relations 7 Board. They can deal with all those problems. 8 This has been a violation of the Taylor Law. 9 Instead, this is going to put a huge cost on 10 every town, village and city that is desperately 11 trying to meet the public safety needs of its 12 communities and, at the same time, provide and 13 protect its police officers. 14 Both of those are laudable and 15 important public safety objectives, but we can't 16 tie the hands of local communities by giving to 17 the board -- the Industrial Board of Appeals the 18 right to decide whether they can reduce their 19 staff. 20 That's a decision, and I agree 21 with Senator Leichter, that should be made by 22 local officials who are elected by the people 23 and accountable to them and not made by the 1 Industrial Board of Appeals, a group of 2 unelected commissioners that, from my community, 3 will be 225 miles away. 4 I submit that this bill stems 5 from a -- from a very, very simplified view of 6 what will become a complicated, time-consuming, 7 onerous mandate on all of our villages and all 8 of our towns, and our cities as well. 9 I submit that this legislation, 10 and I understand the spirit from which it 11 arises, will create a terrible unfunded mandate, 12 a terribly oppressive mandate to our local 13 communities that are trying to deal with the 14 difficult problem of providing cost-effective 15 public safety. Pass this bill, and you're 16 taking away the local control that I've heard 17 from the other side of the aisle that you so 18 desperately want to preserve. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator 22 Maltese, will you yield for a question? 23 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Maltese, would you yield to a question? 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Not quite a 4 question; I would just like to make a 5 statement. 6 I find myself in a brand new 7 district, a little section of Westchester 8 County. I have a lot of colleagues on your side 9 who have parts of Westchester County, but the 10 particular area, after they finished cutting me 11 up in reapportionment, is called Mount Vernon. 12 Now, Mount Vernon is a nice calm 13 little city, poor city, because they've done 14 everything right. At the present time we are 15 desperately, along with Senator Velella, with a 16 few others, trying to find some way to get money 17 back into Westchester. 18 Mandates, I'm sure, most of the 19 time we are in agreement. We have to do 20 something about mandating costs on the local 21 government. But here's a situation, and Senator 22 Guy Velella and I have been trying to do 23 something about it. 1 Would you be willing to fight - 2 authorize the utility tax in Mount Vernon so 3 that you pay for some of this? Would you be 4 willing to take the monies that they have 5 contracted they have with the police officers 6 now and campaign for it? Would you tell the 7 police officers to do away with the increases 8 and make this study available? 9 And the answer probably is, no, 10 to the latter category, and I merely point this 11 out to you, Senator, because I disagree with the 12 bill, but the localities especially, all of 13 them, are going to be hit, but the small 14 localities are going to be hit the hardest. A 15 million dollars? A million, two million perhaps 16 is peppercorns, if we had the opportunity to 17 look; maybe a member item on your side of the 18 aisle. It's a lot of money for these small 19 hamlets. They cannot afford this even if it was 20 a good piece of legislation. They cannot afford 21 it. 22 The question is -- I'll get to 23 the question -- is how do you account, what can 1 we possibly do? How, under your legislation, 2 even if it passes, and I'm sure it's only a 3 one-house bill, the fact of how in good 4 conscience these small little villages, the 5 small cities, the impact that it's going to be 6 -- going to have on them, and you said yourself 7 that you would be willing to put into your 8 legislation, I believe, means to finance this 9 where the small towns, villages, cities, if you 10 will, cannot afford it. 11 More importantly, would you be 12 interested or concerned enough or to the point 13 where you would take the utility tax to these 14 small cities or hamlets, the Medicaid - 15 mandated Medicaid relief that we talk about at 16 least for that area which is opposed by some, 17 would you be willing in conjunction with this 18 piece of legislation, to support those other 19 means in which to fund this program which is not 20 a good bill in the first place, but it's 21 interesting just to find out. What is your 22 attitude about those small hamlets and cities 23 that cannot afford this at all, even if it were 1 to pass? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 I fully appreciate that my most articulate 4 colleague is asking the question more in a 5 rhetorical sense, but I frequently have voted 6 for and as a matter of fact, in many, many 7 instances, voted for the means for the 8 localities, since I believe in local government, 9 to finance expenditures that they voted to 10 enact, and since I've been in this house and in 11 this chamber have voted for a great deal more 12 taxes than I ever believed I would and ever 13 thought I would, and a great deal more than I 14 like to do. 15 At the same time, I feel that we 16 have an obligation to, when we took the oath as 17 Senators, we are not simply micromanaging the 18 affairs of a police department whether it's in 19 Mount Vernon or whether it's in the city of New 20 York. I do -- I strongly disagree with my 21 colleague, Senator Leichter, who talks about our 22 intrusion into the affairs of the city of New 23 York. He specifically alluded to the city of 1 New York, which he represents and I represent. 2 Last I saw, I not only represent the city of New 3 York, but I reside there and my family resides 4 there. 5 I believe that we have not only 6 the right but the obligation to attempt to 7 protect the lives of our police officers when 8 they are doing their sworn duty. 9 A question was -- was just -- was 10 asked as to whether -- who supports this bill. 11 The support we have, and we did not seek it but 12 this is the support of the people who brought 13 this circumstance to our attention, was the 14 Police Benevolent Association, the Sergeants' 15 Benevolent Association, the Lieutenants' 16 Benevolent Association, and many of their 17 representatives. 18 Now, when I speak about trying to 19 protect the lives of individual police officers 20 in cars, I don't superimpose my own judgment. I 21 don't superimpose my own knowledge or wisdom as 22 far as the necessity for these police officers. 23 I am listening, I am hearing the plea of the 1 representatives, the duly elected representa 2 tives of those selfsame police officers who are 3 saying to me, perhaps those officials who are in 4 charge of government, perhaps those officials 5 who are leading government would put fiscal 6 considerations ahead of the lives of these same 7 police officers. 8 And, Mr. President, I don't know 9 that our good mayor's opinion, and a Mayor that 10 I respect, or our police commissioner, Ray 11 Kelly's opinion is any better than mine. 12 Certainly, Ray Kelly's opinion I would respect, 13 but a police commissioner, as we've seen in the 14 recent history of New York City, is not always 15 free to act non-politically. I don't know that 16 I would put the mayor's opinion or value the 17 mayor's opinion any more than I would put 18 perhaps our present President's opinion as far 19 as commanding a military unit in the field or 20 any military unit. 21 So I don't know that -- and we 22 have to say that we are waging a war, a war on 23 crime. We just previously spoke about all these 1 police officers gunned down as they were trying 2 to do their duty. So what I'm saying is that, 3 at the least, I am arguing on a platform that is 4 being sustained and upheld by police officers 5 who told me that it is their learned opinion 6 this was necessary, and I am willing to accede 7 to their opinions before I accede to the 8 opinions of anybody in this house, no matter 9 what their previous service was. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Would 13 Senator Maltese yield to a question? 14 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you've 16 been very gracious in yielding and while I'm not 17 trying to take advantage, but first of all, 18 Senator, have you held any hearings on this 19 bill? 20 SENATOR MALTESE: No. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you said 22 you have support from the PBA, et cetera. Is 23 that the New York City or does it go past the 1 New York City? 2 SENATOR MALTESE: The New York 3 City. 4 SENATOR GOLD: New York City, and 5 the last question I have is, you read some 6 information earlier, you said it came from the 7 FBI, about incidents where people, I guess, were 8 shot or injured or killed in one-person 9 situations, was that? 10 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator, my 12 impression from hearing that was the officers 13 perhaps weren't trained properly. In other 14 words, you were giving the information such as 15 the officer didn't do this, the officer wasn't 16 alert, the officer didn't get his gun out, 17 didn't do this, didn't call for back-up. 18 Didn't you make a perfect 19 argument, Senator Maltese, that you basically 20 have a training issue here, not a one-person or 21 two-person in a car, but whether or not people 22 are being trained, properly so; therefore, if 23 the City were to go to one person in a car, 1 let's say, if the training program was proper, 2 they hopefully would not have officers who would 3 be part of your statistics. 4 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 5 I -- the point I was hoping to make is, first of 6 all, I feel that the figures do stand for 7 themselves and stand on their own feet vis-a-vis 8 the numbers. Certainly we can surmise from the 9 -- the disproportionate number of the -- for 10 instance, the 237 in the one-officer vehicles as 11 opposed to the 94 in the two-officer vehicle. 12 The point I attempted to make as 13 to the training, quite correctly, what Senator 14 Gold said was buttressed by FBI investigations. 15 What they were attempting to do is save the 16 lives of officers in future circumstances. But 17 we are all subject to human facility. These 18 police officers, when I referred to the fact 19 that they were described by their friends and 20 comrades and relatives as trusting individuals, 21 as people now under the new guidelines well 22 suited for police work, people who would try to 23 respond in a friendly manner rather than an 1 aggressive or threatening manner, and my point 2 was that these people are human beings and when 3 we put one person alone in a police car, he is 4 not going to be as well protected and he may 5 make these very mistakes that the FBI report 6 pointed out, and he would be less subject to 7 making those mistakes if he had a companion, he 8 or she had a companion with them or if they had 9 the security of the training program that 10 Senator Gold spoke of. 11 But we are not at this point in 12 time speaking about a training program. We're 13 trying to speak about providing additional 14 personnel in the police cars. If Senator Gold 15 wants to put in a bill that would provide 16 additional training with the funds provided for 17 the police, these police officers in 18 municipalities, towns and villages, I'd be glad 19 to share in that legislation with him. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator 1 Maltese yield to a question? But first of all I 2 find it fascinating that you say I should put in 3 a bill for better training and provide the funds 4 when you want to put in the program initially 5 and don't want to fund it. I mean, come on, 6 Senator. 7 But first of all, Senator, I have 8 a question, but I want to point out you're 9 saying that we have police officers today who 10 are friendlier and the new kind of police 11 officer requires back-up because they're 12 friendlier. 13 Senator, isn't there a difference 14 between a police officer being careful, the word 15 "careful" versus whether he's courteous or 16 rude? I would hope that there are no rude police 17 officers, but even if they are, I hope they're 18 careful. The two words don't -- have different 19 meanings. So, Senator, the fact that we hope 20 that police officers today are not abrasive and 21 not overwhelming doesn't mean they shouldn't be 22 careful. 23 But my question, Senator, is the 1 following: In terms of the -- of the FBI study, 2 how many police vehicles are there that are 3 operated by two police officers, versus the 4 number that are operated by one officer? 5 SENATOR MALTESE: I don't have 6 that information, and it wasn't in the portion 7 of the study that was given to us. 8 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank 9 you. Mr. President, on the bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 11 bill, Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 13 President. To start at the end there, the 14 figures given by Senator Maltese are really 15 valueless. They are valueless. If you have in a 16 room 90 women and 10 men, it is more likely that 17 something happened as regards the women than 18 men. That's the numbers. 19 The fact that there were more 20 police officers involved in incidents in 21 one-driver cars than two means nothing unless 22 you know what the relative percentages are. If 23 the norm in America is for officers to be one to 1 a vehicle, then by percentages there are going 2 to be more incidents for officers in the one 3 vehicle, so the only way Senator Maltese can 4 make an argument that one is safer or not safer 5 than the other is if we know that the incidents 6 are even to begin with. 7 But, Senator Maltese, I asked you 8 if you held a hearing. Now, the other day I was 9 very proud to stand up and support Senator 10 Velella when he wanted to aid in getting 9 11 millimeter or semi-automatic weapons into the 12 hands of police officers in the city of New York 13 and that bill passed overwhelmingly. But you 14 may recall, I said at that time, Senator 15 Maltese, that when the issue came up, I held a 16 hearing. 17 Now, that wasn't a hearing for 18 show. I was asked to hold that hearing by 19 Milton Mollen, who worked for the mayor at the 20 time, and he said to me, "Manny, if you hold a 21 hearing the City will present to you its 22 arguments and you will understand them." I held 23 the hearing. The City came; they gave their 1 arguments. The PBA came, gave their arguments 2 and then, with both sides of the coin, Senator 3 Maltese, I came to a decision and I supported 4 Senator Velella. 5 You have come to a conclusion 6 listening to the plaintiff's case and saying at 7 the end of the plaintiff's case, I render 8 judgment without giving the defendant a chance 9 to get into the courtroom. The City's case was 10 not presented at any hearing, was not presented 11 to you because you didn't give that equal 12 opportunity. 13 This bill, Senator Stachowski, 14 just so you understand, is a statewide bill 15 because, if it wasn't, he'd need a home rule 16 message and I assume he can't get a home rule 17 message, so you have to make it a statewide 18 bill. It is only an issue, I gather, for 19 Senator Maltese with the PBA in New York City. 20 And lastly, Senator Maltese, I 21 would like to point out something that you 22 already know because I happen to respect your 23 mind, and I know you are a bright gentleman. 1 You want to protect police officers in the city 2 of New York. Walk down the hall and tell 3 Senator Marino that Senator Padavan, Senator 4 Oppenheimer and many others have a bill that 5 would get these assault weapons off the 6 streets. Now you're doing something. Now 7 you're doing something. 8 If you have one or two police 9 officers in a car and they drive up and get 10 pummeled by Tek-9s and other semi-automatic 11 weapons, so under your bill you'll have two, God 12 forbid, dead officers instead of one, God 13 forbid, dead officer. I mean that's what you're 14 doing. 15 I haven't met any policemen in 16 the city of New York, Senator, that say, Senator 17 Maltese, give us two people in a car and also 18 keep us the assault weapons out there because 19 they're good for the City. That's hogwash and, 20 while I am proud to be a sponsor of Senator 21 Oppenheimere's bill -- if it's destined to be a 22 Padavan bill, then I congratulate Senator 23 Padavan -- let's get it out. That will do 1 something. 2 And in closing, I said that's the 3 last, I got to use a different word. In closing 4 I'll point out one other thing. The politics of 5 spending the taxpayers' money is a fascinating, 6 fascinating subject. God forbid you have a 7 child, as happened in New Jersey, who falls into 8 a little swamp hole in a playground. It doesn't 9 matter how many millions of dollars go into that 10 rescue effort. It doesn't matter. Why doesn't 11 it matter? Because the television is there, the 12 press is there. It becomes a national event. 13 Matter of fact, in that movie RADIO DAYS, they 14 did a take-off on that with one little child, 15 but now, forget the one child on television, 16 where everybody is rooting for the child and you 17 get into more obtuse situations and we go crazy 18 with money in a different direction. 19 Senator, this bill, if you want 20 to do it, requires money, that's all. It 21 requires money, and just to say we're going to 22 throw -- we'll find the money, there will be 23 money, maybe we'll see the money; I mean we got 1 to do it. That's all, and if we're not putting 2 up the money, if we're not doing other things, I 3 don't think we should play that game with the 4 PBA or with anybody else. We just shouldn't do 5 it. 6 There are a lot of issues that 7 are involved with the police department and with 8 the mayor. I happy to respect the New York City 9 PBA very much, and they've been -- been 10 respectful towards me. They are a political 11 unit; we all know that. I understand there were 12 ads in some of the papers today blasting the 13 mayor. They obviously are a political unit. 14 Every union is. 15 But, Senator, this is just not a 16 right way to go, and I don't even think it's 17 good politics for your side of the aisle. I 18 don't know when the day is going to come, some 19 day it will come, when your constituents as well 20 as mine -- I'm talking to my upstate colleagues 21 -- are really going to start to read what 22 happens up here and who votes on what. 23 I think the philosophy of the 1 Republican Party is, if a tree falls in a forest 2 does it make noise? Nobody knows, and you hope 3 that nobody will ever report what you do up here 4 so you can do whatever you want. But in those 5 little towns and hamlets, I mean one of them, if 6 this was to become a law or even if it doesn't, 7 somebody is going to read that some of you 8 gentlemen decide that this is something that 9 could happen and affect them, and they're going 10 to wake up. 11 It is a statewide bill, and it is 12 not only terrible for the city of New York; it 13 is awful for upstate New York. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Stachowski. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Just on the 17 bill. When I first saw it, I really didn't have 18 a problem with it, considering it was, I 19 thought, a New York City bill put out by a New 20 York City person, even though it was Rules. I 21 knew when Senator Maltese stood up that he was 22 representing the people that he represented in 23 the city of New York, but when I became aware 1 that it is a statewide bill, I have a big 2 problem with it in that I don't know that all 3 the towns and villages and cities that may be 4 looking at police reorganization and may get 5 along very well with their police officers and 6 their municipal government officials and have 7 worked all this through and negotiated any kind 8 of change out, that suddenly they're in the 9 middle of this process maybe currently, and 10 since this bill takes effect immediately and if 11 it were to pass both houses and get signed by 12 the Governor who often talks about proposals 13 that will do what the people want with local 14 governments, that suddenly these towns, villages 15 and other cities than the city of New York would 16 become a victim of this legislation, have to go 17 through a study that we don't have any idea what 18 it costs, but I'm sure it's not free, and then 19 they have to start -- keep continuing to have 20 two-men police cars even if their village is 21 very small, and they decided it's not safe 22 enough to do this and maybe they have a dual 23 coverage of the local sheriff's department also, 1 to help support the one-car units, and that all 2 this does is incur an expense that their 3 taxpayers can't afford and this study that we 4 don't know what it costs as to that problem and 5 as a result people lose their jobs or programs 6 that they need go out of effect. 7 For that reason, I can't support 8 this bill, and basically it's nothing more than 9 another unfunded mandate. Earlier this year we 10 passed a bill saying we're not going to do any 11 unfunded mandates. We've done a -- I think a 12 second concurrent resolution saying we're not 13 going to do any unfunded mandates, and that only 14 counts when we're talking about somebody else's 15 program here. 16 Senator Maltese can get up and 17 say, "I don't know what this costs and if it 18 does cost money, well, then next year I'll put 19 the money in," or we'll get the money for him 20 and we'll give him the money. Well, the fact is 21 by Constitution, you can't do that. If the 22 study is done and the expense is incurred, you 23 can't give a community a gift. Give them the 1 money for a study they already did? That's a 2 gift. We can't do that, and it sounds great but 3 you can't do it. 4 And I can remember the days when 5 I first got to the Senate or maybe I'm even 6 thinking back to when I was in the county 7 legislature, and I used to get mail from the 8 chairman of the Conservative Party Serph' 9 Maltese, Don't be for unfunded mandates. Well, 10 when he was chairman of the Conservative Party, 11 Serph' Maltese was not for unfunded mandates. 12 Guess that doesn't matter any more. 13 I'm not only going to oppose the 14 bill; I'm going to ask for a slow roll call. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Oppenheimer. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh. Thank 18 you, Mr. President. 19 My colleague just now said it's 20 an unfunded mandate. It's more than an unfunded 21 mandate, an unfunded mandate. It's -- it's just 22 ridiculous. I mean I have to speak to you as a 23 mayor of many years of a small community. 1 If you're talking about 2 decreasing the number of police officers 3 assigned to a patrol car, if there's a safety 4 risk, I mean our patrol cars in my community 5 when I was there, we had 50-some police 6 officers, they all rode singly. If we were to 7 decrease, it would be a car without an officer 8 and that doesn't seem too likely. It just is 9 not possible in a small community. Every single 10 person that is there is essential and needed and 11 for the most part we carry only one -- one 12 police patrolman to every car and there's no way 13 that we could increase it. There's no way we 14 could fund a study. 15 I mean the whole thing makes 16 absolutely no sense. I mean you have to be at 17 the local level just to know how nonsensical 18 this is. I'm voting no. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, I already commented on the text of 23 the bill. 1 One of the things that Senator 2 Maltese said after he spoke after me, really 3 drove home the message and, Senator, I couldn't 4 agree with you more. We sort of moved down the 5 same logic and then we depart. 6 I agree with you that I didn't 7 run for this office to make a decision about 8 what goes on in the village of East Rochester, 9 which is in my colleague, Senator Jones' 10 district. I don't represent any villages. I 11 represent two towns and a major city, but I 12 wasn't elected to make that judgment about what 13 goes on in a small village, and I -- I don't 14 think you were either. I don't think anyone is 15 in this chamber. 16 But we have a very simple 17 choice. We can either leave that decision to 18 local officials in those villages who were 19 elected to make that choice or we can do what 20 your bill suggests, which is take it out of the 21 elected officials' hands and give it to a bunch 22 of bureaucrats who are called the Industrial 23 Board of Appeals. 1 We can take the most vital thing 2 that happens in a local community, that is 3 public safety, I agree with you it's the most 4 vital thing that happens, and we can take that 5 and turn it to a group of five or seven 6 nameless, faceless bureaucrats that live in - 7 in Albany and that work out of Albany. 8 Whatever happened to the concept 9 of home rule? This isn't home rule. This is 10 rule by the IBA. This isn't rule by elected 11 officials. This is rule by bureaucrats, 12 unelected officials. This proposal takes the 13 most precious decision at the local level, 14 public safety, and transforms it into something 15 that's the subject of a detailed comprehensive 16 study, reviewed by the Industrial Board of 17 Appeals who makes a final and binding decision 18 on the local community where, even if the local 19 community says it's all we can afford, the 20 Industrial Board of Appeals is going to say, 21 Aah, it isn't true you can't afford it. Go out, 22 tax your people more to pay for it. 23 If it isn't through the 1 Industrial Board of Appeals, where will they go? 2 They'll go to the courts. We might as well turn 3 the public safety over to the bureaucrats or - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Maltese. 6 SENATOR MALTESE: Excuse me, 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 Mr. President, may I lay the bill 9 aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 Secretary will read. Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 can we call up Calendar 808 which was laid 16 aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Secretary will read Calendar 808. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 808, by Senator Cook, an act to amend the 21 Education Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 12 5900, an act to amend the Environmental 13 Conservation - 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 15 Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1263, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 20 5929. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 22 the day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1269, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 4 3211-A, Administrative Code of the city of New 5 York. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 7 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 8 read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1274, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 19 3811-A, State Administrative Procedure Act. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1 Explanation. Senator Wright. 2 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 The bill provides amendments to 5 the State Administrative Procedure Act to 6 require that, when a model plan is called for in 7 terms of achieving compliance efforts, that that 8 model plan be developed by the agency and be 9 published for the use of those individuals being 10 required to comply. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator - 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Certainly, 13 Senator. I look forward to these exchanges. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have no 15 objection. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, 17 Senator. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, 19 Senator. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Goodman. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Oh, no. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1275, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 11 4492-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Explanation has been asked for. Senator Tully. 15 A year older today. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 This bill changes the advisory 19 review panel created by this Legislature in 20 Chapter 1 of 1993 which oversees the activities 21 of Empire Blue Cross and Blue Shield to a 22 special review board and gives it authority and 23 power to approve all contracts other than policy 1 contracts as well as to review and ensure the 2 accuracy of premium rate increase applications 3 submitted by the corporation to the Department. 4 This bill, in actuality, is 5 something that was previously discussed by this 6 house with the other house and the Governor in 7 1993. This bill was originally proposed with 8 these powers in it at that time, and these 9 powers were rejected at that time by the 10 Governor and by the Assembly, and I think the 11 record is clear that had this power been given 12 at that time that it was requested, many of the 13 things which have taken place might not have 14 otherwise ensued. 15 We have a tremendous 16 responsibility to the people that we represent, 17 particularly to the 8 million subscribers of 18 this company which is the largest company of its 19 type in the United States. This type of 20 oversight is without a doubt - 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 SENATOR TULLY: -- absolutely 23 necessary. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Gold, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR GOLD: I hate to 4 interrupt, but we've just passed Senator 5 Padavan's bill, I think it's 1269, and I just 6 want to make sure it doesn't leave the house 7 quite yet. There was a question that was just 8 raised and a phone call I had and, if we could 9 just hold that, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Has it 11 left? 12 SENATOR GOLD: No, no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, it 14 was just on its way out the door. 15 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank 16 you. So please hold. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Tully, you have the floor. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 The company in question, Empire 22 Blue Cross and Blue Shield, has reported to this 23 Legislature losses of $250 million in the last 1 two years, at the same time they received rate 2 increases from Superintendent Curiale, the 3 regulator, and the Insurance Department, four 4 times. 5 This Legislature relied upon 6 information which was presented to them by that 7 company in creating and enacting a law on 8 community rating and open enrollment. 9 Mr. President, I submit that this 10 is a law whose time has come. Its time had come 11 earlier in January. It must be enacted as 12 quickly as possible. Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Solomon. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 16 I'm glad, Senator Tully, you ended on that note, 17 but before I ask you a question regarding that 18 comment, I'd just like to ask you, part of this 19 bill - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Tully, would you yield to a question? 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Would you 23 yield, please, Senator? 1 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 4 will yield to your question. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, this 6 bill has no limits on contracts that must be 7 submitted to the board, no minimum limits, am I 8 correct? 9 SENATOR TULLY: That is correct, 10 Mr. President. The only exclusion on contracts 11 is premium contracts, the policy contract. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. So Senator 13 Tully, if you will yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 15 he will. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, Senator, if 17 Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield wants to purchase 18 a thousand dollars worth of Number 2 pencils 19 then that contract would have to go to this 20 board? 21 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 22 all contracts, whether they be for a pencil, a 23 thousand dollars worth of pencils or any other 1 type of contract other than policy contracts, if 2 the board seeks and wishes to review them are 3 subject to the review of Empire under this 4 legislation, that's correct, and maybe if they 5 had that type of authority in the past, we 6 wouldn't have been slickered as we were. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 8 that -- Senator, I wasn't slickered. I voted 9 against this bill, by the way - 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Tully. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- on community 13 rating, because I thought there was something 14 wrong with the Blues, but what I'm concerned 15 with is by having every contract, we have - 16 we've had instances, I believe there are 17 instances of both review and oversight before 18 where you set a minimum amount of dollars. 19 Wouldn't it be wiser in terms of the number of 20 dollars that come out of Blue Cross -- Empire 21 Blue Cross/Blue Shield, since it's literally 22 hundreds of millions, actually probably billions 23 of dollars every year, to set a minimum on the 1 contracts, say contracts under $500,000 so they 2 can at least deal with some day-to-day purchases 3 whether it be, as I say, pencils or some paper 4 cups? 5 I think this might have been 6 drafted incorrectly. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Tully. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 10 appreciate the concern exhibited by Senator 11 Solomon, but I'm sure even he knows that things 12 of that nature many times are not the subject of 13 contracts. I know in this Legislature, when we 14 need pencils, perhaps there's a request for 15 proposals, they're not really in the nature of 16 contract form, and many times people might send 17 someone, in the case of Empire Blue Cross/Blue 18 Shield out to the office store to pick up a 19 couple of dozen boxes of pencils. 20 If those are the things he is 21 concerned with, I don't think really from a 22 practical standpoint that the board would 23 concern themselves with it, but I would be 1 really, really upset if we attempted to put a 2 dollar figure on something that we couldn't 3 watch based on the track record of this 4 company. 5 We can always go the other way, 6 if we determine that it's too stringent and if 7 we determine, in our wisdom, that we are 8 restricting commerce and restricting development 9 of this company and an opportunity to do what's 10 right for people it represents, we can always 11 amend it. But right now, I think strict, strict 12 measures are called for. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if you 14 will continue to yield. How many -- how many 15 contracts does Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield 16 enter into not including insurance contracts 17 with the insureds? 18 SENATOR TULLY: There is no - 19 absolutely no way that I would have of knowing 20 that, which is one of the reasons we want to 21 give the authority to the board to determine it, 22 but obviously, you know, Senator, that it would 23 include certain actuarial contracts which are 1 most significant, like Deloitte-Touche, that 2 type of contract that we know has existed. It 3 would include employment contracts such as the 4 one that was entered into with the former CEO, 5 Mr. Cardone, where he received $600,000 in 6 compensation, an increase of $100,000 in one 7 year, at the time they were asking for enormous 8 rate increases. It would include computer 9 contracts, Mr. President, which we know now are 10 the subject of inquiry by a number of agencies. 11 This should have been the law, 12 Mr. President. The Governor and the Assembly 13 should have agreed to it and Superintendent 14 Curiale knew or should have known about many of 15 the things that are now coming out in the paper, 16 and it's a disgrace. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator - 18 Senator, if you will yield to two more 19 questions. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I feel 21 he will. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: How much money 23 did we appropriate for this board, the advisory 1 committee which will become a board? 2 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 3 the people who serve on the board we are 4 fortunate to have pro bono. There is $150,000 5 appropriated for such staff as they will find 6 necessary. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Senator, 8 if you will yield to just one last question. I 9 notice you were obviously upset at the 10 revelations of Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield, as 11 we all were, and I always took some of the 12 figures that they gave me as a grain of salt 13 because they lost $100 million on an HMO in five 14 years which I thought was pretty incredible, and 15 their response had been that they were losing 16 less money, when they were questioned about it. 17 That's one of the reasons I voted 18 against community rating. Senator, do you feel 19 at this point in the structure within the next 20 month, that we should help the Blues or bail 21 them out in any other way or means at this point 22 in time, get them some additional funds? 23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 1 think Senator Solomon knows full well that the 2 Legislature -- very much, I doubt that we'll 3 hear anything in the next month, but the 4 Legislature will no doubt be faced with a rate 5 increase request, not the Legislature but the 6 Superintendent of Insurance will be consulted 7 and requested to do something with respect to 8 helping Blue Cross/Blue Shield out. 9 It's a very, very difficult 10 situation because I have not yet heard from 11 Senator Solomon as to what we in the Legislature 12 should do or what the Governor should do or what 13 the Superintendent should do if Empire Blue 14 Cross and Blue Shield were to fall apart, if it 15 were to fold, if it were to disappear, who would 16 then insure these 8 million people? 17 Only this week, the head of the 18 AFL-CIO came to my office. Two and a half 19 million of his people are insured by Blue Cross 20 and Blue Shield and he asked me, is there any 21 difficulty, is there anything we should be 22 worried about, because he's reading the 23 newspaper too. There are many, many people out 1 there who are fearful that they will have no 2 health insurance. 3 The issue then resolves itself 4 into one as to whether or not there has been 5 sufficient oversight; has there been sufficient 6 regulation? And I remember, Senator Solomon, 7 when he debated, and I for one wouldn't say for 8 the world that maybe there was an issue and 9 position between people who felt on the one hand 10 that Empire Blue Cross and Blue Shield needed 11 something and commercial insurers on the other 12 hand who had their spokesmen in this house felt 13 that maybe they shouldn't get anything because 14 there's always been an opposition between the 15 two, but I think the record of what was said at 16 the time that bill was debated will speak for 17 itself, as all of Senator Solomon's comments at 18 the time -- at that time will speak for 19 themselves. 20 But I believe now we're dealing 21 with something separate and apart from past 22 history, and we're dealing with something 23 separate and apart from what might be a rate 1 increase. We're saying now that that which we 2 had in place was insufficient to preclude the 3 occurrences that have happened. We're talking 4 about hundreds of millions of dollars. We're 5 talking about investigations, not only by the U. 6 S. Attorney's office, by the Manhattan district 7 attorney's office, by other agencies who have 8 been contacted, who have exhibited interest in 9 not only the civil end of this, but in the 10 criminal end. 11 The story is yet to unfold. It's 12 a difficult postulate at least, but we have to 13 do something as quickly as possible. We should 14 have done it in January, but we need to do it 15 now. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. On 17 the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 19 bill, Senator Solomon. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Tully, 21 I think we should have did something a year ago 22 when we passed the community rating. In view of 23 that, in January we came in with another bail 1 out which I'm glad you have this bill. Those of 2 you in this house should be aware Empire Blue 3 Cross/Blue Shield was against this because it 4 did include this advisory board because they 5 considered it too much oversight. 6 But what I'm concerned about is 7 we have a piece of legislation here which should 8 have looked at some numbers in terms of setting 9 some minimum standards of contracts to review. 10 I don't -- I believe Empire Blue Cross/Blue 11 Shield probably has large numbers of contracts 12 that deal with purchases of paper and supplies, 13 et cetera, that may not have to be reviewed 14 because they probably take that on bid, probably 15 contractual relationships in regard to that or 16 can be determined to be contracts. 17 What I'm concerned about is you 18 have a bill here which, in fact, could literally 19 cause the opposite effect in overburdening this 20 board by not letting it focus on the major 21 contracts that they have to look at, but every 22 piece of paper that comes across, and I believe 23 that they're going to be understaffed in terms 1 of the budget that's been allocated to them to 2 adhere to this bill. 3 The concept is correct. We 4 should have had this board of oversight a long 5 time ago. There are a lot of problems with the 6 Blues. Those problems have been evidenced over 7 the years, and fortunately, I guess we should 8 all thank the New York Times for revealing a lot 9 of the problems and it turned a lot of people 10 around, and they realized that sometimes when 11 you have a group that's supposedly 12 not-for-profit, and they come before this 13 chamber and the Legislature, and they say 14 certain things maybe you should examine what 15 those people are saying, especially when they 16 mount multi-million dollar lobbying efforts and 17 campaigns to all our constituents. 18 But again, this bill, I believe, 19 goes in the right direction but I'm afraid that 20 it could literally be overburdened by its own 21 language by overloading the system, by having 22 them required to review each and every contract 23 that comes before them with the small amount of 1 staffing that they currently have. 2 I should, in fact, add that it's 3 a multi-billion dollar corporation and they're 4 going to have less staff than many of the 5 legislators in this house currently have, and 6 that's where I think the problems are going to 7 be. 8 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 10 Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Again, when this 12 bill was originally proposed and we did debate 13 it on the floor, and I remember particularly a 14 colloquy between myself and my colleague, 15 Senator Leichter, I indicated that the powers 16 which we proposed at that time which were not 17 included in the bill but which are proposed now 18 were exactly the same powers that were put into 19 place by this Legislature in 1975 when we 20 created the Emergency Financial Control Board to 21 bring the city of New York out of bankruptcy, 22 and that same faith that dealt with the same 23 type contracts resulted in the City coming out 1 of bankruptcy and back into the bond market, and 2 I submit that what worked for New York City will 3 work for this state in this case. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1289, substituted earlier today, by member of 16 the Assembly Seabrook, Assembly Bill Number 17 6838, State Administrative Procedure Act. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 21 Wright. 22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 23 this bill incorporates current informal 1 procedures being utilized by the Office of 2 Business and Regulatory Assistance and it 3 incorporates it in statute to give it statutory 4 authority. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 13 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1291, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 5825, 18 an act in relation to allocation and utilization 19 of certain monies. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 21 Gold. Last -- last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1292, by Senator Seward. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 10 Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 12 Explanation requested. Senator Seward. 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 This legislation would allow 16 artists' materials manufacturers to apply a 17 brush stroke of paint to their packages so as to 18 display the true color of the paint that's 19 within the package. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: As I 21 understand this bill, Senator Seward -- I 22 sympathize with what you're trying to do and 23 were I to have a company in -- in my district, a 1 major corporation that needed assistance, I also 2 would try and do what I could to help that 3 company, but I really have to object to this 4 bill. This does something that I don't think we 5 want to set a precedent on. I think the company 6 that's requesting this is named Golden Artist? 7 If Senator will yield? It is Golden Artist. 8 O.K. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 10 Seward, will you yield? 11 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, that's a - 12 the artist materials manufacturer that I happen 13 to be familiar with that is in a bind because of 14 the need for relief. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I 16 understand that, and I do empathize. However, 17 I've got -- there really is a major problem 18 here. Golden Artist wanted an exemption from 19 the Hazardous Packaging Act. The DEC has 20 refused to give them this exemption. This 21 legislation was introduced in order to override 22 the DEC's refusal to give the exemption. 23 It really sets a terrible 1 precedent for other companies to come in and ask 2 for special -- special attention, special 3 exception to our statute. The Hazardous 4 Packaging Act is a national standard which is 5 being enforced by 13 other states. 6 When this Legislature passed the 7 Hazardous Packaging Act in '91 -- 1991, it was 8 to be effective the following year in '92, we 9 were doing it to protect consumers from toxic 10 labels and to reduce toxins that end up in our 11 solid waste stream. Cadmium, which is the issue 12 we're dealing with today, cadmium, is one of the 13 most hazardous materials which can cause harmful 14 effects on the health of the general public, and 15 there is no justification to allow an exemption 16 for this hazardous material which would only 17 encourage other corporations to ask for 18 exemptions from hazardous materials, and I feel 19 we have to treat this very seriously, even 20 though we are, you know, concerned about 21 individual corporations. 22 This goes against our law; it 23 goes against the DEC's determination, and I 1 think by statute, we should not be overriding 2 the DEC, that is simply trying to enforce our 3 laws, this law which we passed in 1991 and went 4 into effect last year. 5 So I would urge those who are 6 concerned about hazardous materials entering our 7 waste stream to certainly vote against this 8 bill. 9 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 11 Seward. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Just a few 13 comments to close the discussion on this. I'm 14 familiar with the administrative hearing to 15 which Senator Oppenheimer refers, and it is true 16 that Golden Paints did go through that process, 17 and I -- I certainly supported the legislation 18 that passed a few years ago. 19 I think it's an important issue 20 and we do need to cut down the toxic materials 21 that are involved in packaging. But getting 22 back to this hearing procedure, Golden, in fact, 23 did go to that hearing to show that they had no 1 practical alternative which is allowability, 2 waivers are allowable under the existing law 3 that we all voted for, and the problem is that 4 the DEC interpretation of the packaging 5 component as it relates to the cadmium was that 6 they only looked at the stroke of paint itself 7 that's on the outside packages, not the entire 8 package, and only that interpretation on the 9 part of DEC is what threw this company out in 10 terms of being granted relief under the existing 11 law. 12 What I'm attempting to do under 13 this legislation is to provide Environmental 14 Conservation with some further guidance in terms 15 of a very, very small portion of a market for a 16 very specific purpose, and that is to allow this 17 paint company to have, in fact, truth in 18 advertising by showing on the outside of the 19 package the true color of the paint inside. 20 This is very, very important, 21 particularly to artists. This company markets 22 to well known artists all over the world, and 23 the color, the precise color, is an important 1 part of their unique marketing and, for that 2 reason only, I'm moving the bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 4 section. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 7 Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Seward, 9 would you yield to a question? 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 12 would yield. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, as has 14 been noted on other occasions, the Legislature 15 in New York operates a little differently than 16 the Congress. In Congress, they will have the 17 Environmental Act of 1993, and it will have 50 18 different sections in it, so they may pass 2- or 19 300 bills a year. We pass thousands. 20 Senator, the point I'm trying to 21 get at, it's one thing to break up the areas of 22 concern, and that I understand. It's another 23 thing to take that final stretch, Mr. 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 3 -- can we have some order in the house, 4 please. 5 SENATOR GOLD: It's another 6 thing, Senator Seward, to take a -- a different 7 kind of stretch where, for example, we are now 8 stretching. We don't have pension laws; we have 9 89 pension laws. Everybody gets their own 10 pension law and we stretch it in to some other 11 areas. Instead of having statewide bills in 12 some areas, every little town gets their own 13 bill for that one. 14 Now, Senator, we're being asked 15 to give individual exemptions where people can't 16 work it through a department, and I'm just 17 wondering at what point, Senator Seward, this 18 Legislature stops being a court of last resort 19 over the Court of Appeals of the state of New 20 York, over every single department? I mean it 21 just philosophically, when do we stop doing 22 that? 23 SENATOR SEWARD: We could -- is 1 that a question? 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I respect 3 you as a theologician, something like that. 4 Theologian. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: We could have a 6 great philosophical discussion on that, and in 7 fact, the -- I certainly would hope that many of 8 the regulatory relief bills that I know Senator 9 Wright is moving through this house would 10 ultimately some day down the road provide the 11 relief we're looking for. However, I -- looking 12 at a situation here today where current law does 13 allow for the exemption. 14 This -- this company is operating 15 within the law today in terms of the amount of 16 cadmium in the certain groups of paints that 17 they manufacture. However, the problem comes in 18 is in DEC's interpretation of the law that we 19 passed a few years ago, in fact looking at that 20 packaging component only, as I said, at that 21 stroke of paint versus the entire label which 22 describes the paint and what's in it and all of 23 those things that's the -- that's the thrust of 1 the legislation. 2 We could be here and 3 philosophically discuss the matter 'til the end 4 of session. I think, however, it's important to 5 point out that this is a very, very small 6 change. I interpret it as being a measure which 7 gives DEC some additional guidance and direction 8 as they interpret this particular section of the 9 law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 11 will you yield to another question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Will you 13 yield to Senator Gold? Will you yield to another 14 question? 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 17 will yield. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I ask you 19 a general question. I want to zero it in in a 20 little more. I understand that Senator Wright 21 and Assemblyman Seabrook have all these bills 22 and everything, but what I'm getting at, 23 Senator, is that aside from the fact that there 1 are people who believe this should be a 2 full-time job and want this session to go on ad 3 infinitum, the fact of the matter is that we set 4 some generalized rules that we think are good 5 for people. 6 Now, in doing that, there is 7 always going to be -- now, we're not talking 8 about administrative agencies now. We're 9 talking about the Legislature. There's always 10 going to be a firm here or there along the way 11 that needs a little blip. 12 It's like reapportionment. You 13 know, you go along and you got a straight line 14 and all of a sudden, you got a little blip and 15 you wonder why and you say, I don't know, and 16 you find out somebody lives there who wants to 17 be in this district rather than another 18 district. 19 I've listened to Senator 20 Oppenheimer, and I just see enormous sense in 21 what she is saying, and I see enormous sense in 22 the concept that we shouldn't be making these 23 blips all over the place because one person or 1 another doesn't fit in to what we have 2 determined is good policy, and I say, why are we 3 doing it? Why should we do it here in such a 4 dangerous area, as has been beautifully pointed 5 out by one of our great legislators from the 6 great county of Westchester? 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Senator, 8 many times the laws that are passed and have 9 been on the books a while need some further 10 refinement, and that's why we come back with 11 additional bills to provide that refinement. 12 I just would point out once 13 again, Mr. President, that the current law 14 allows a packaging component to contain cadmium 15 up to 250 parts per million by weight. Now, 16 Golden's packaging has a label with a brush 17 stroke of the pigment. 18 Now, this label does meet the 19 requirements that are in the law today. 20 However, DEC has interpreted the packaging 21 component to be the brush stroke only and not 22 the entire label. That is a situation which 23 leads me to introduce a bill to provide 1 Environmental Conservation with some additional 2 guidance in terms of how they interpret this 3 legislation as it relates to this very specific 4 group and category of paints that are 5 specifically designed for artists' materials. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 7 Oppenheimer. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I truly 9 empathize, and I was a painter, and I -- I 10 think, I guess will the Senator yield for a 11 question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Would the 13 Senator yield? 14 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I will. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Yes, he 16 will. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Is there no 18 alternative? I mean I would think that there 19 would be some possible alternative to the 20 utilization of this tiny patch that you're 21 referring to that's on the label? There -- has 22 the company -- obviously, it must have fully 23 explored absolutely every alternative? 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Senator, I 2 did -- I did discuss this with the company and 3 in fact, they -- the problem is this: It -- for 4 marketing this very unique product to a very 5 unique group of potential customers, it's very 6 important that they show the true color of the 7 paint. Call it artists' temperament or what 8 have you. 9 That particular segment, that 10 market is very, very particular in terms of the 11 exact color. Now, Golden has, you'd say, well, 12 why not just print out a sheet of paper which 13 would have different colors printed on it 14 through dyes, for example? The problem with that 15 is it does not reflect the true color of the 16 paint that would be inside of the container, and 17 that's the bind that we find ourselves in. 18 I'm certainly not looking to 19 unravel the fine work that was done in the 20 legislation a couple of years ago, but this one 21 small segment, this one small segment of our 22 dwindling manufacturing base in New York State 23 needs this type of relief so that they can 1 continue to market their products worldwide and 2 provide jobs for the people of our state. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: On the 4 bill, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 6 Oppenheimer, on the bill. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: While I 8 understand the problem here, and I -- I do feel 9 sympathetically, and I do recognize, as I said, 10 having painted at one time, that it is very 11 important to -- to have the true, the essential 12 color on the exterior of the package, you know, 13 describing what's contained. 14 I think the bottom line is that 15 these kind of exceptions, if -- if requested 16 once probably would set a precedent for many, 17 many more exceptions to our Hazardous Packaging 18 Act and -- and I feel that it's such an 19 important act to our health and to our 20 environmental health, that I -- I will still 21 have to say that I would urge a no vote for 22 those who are concerned about their health and 23 -- and where this hazardous material ends up in 1 our waste stream. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1292 are 11 Senators Dollinger, Gold, Jones, Leichter, 12 Ohrenstein, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Pataki and 13 Stachowski. Ayes 44 -- ayes 44, nays 9. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 18 recognize the Majority Leader, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 20 Marino. 21 SENATOR MARINO: Mr. President, I 22 thought the members might like to know that I've 23 just been advised that the former Speaker, Mel 1 Miller's conviction has been overturned, so I'm 2 -- I just wanted to announce that the members 3 should be pleased, as I am, that this conviction 4 has been overturned, congratulate the former 5 Speaker and want to reiterate my -- my feeling 6 that he's always been an honest and -- an honest 7 person with great integrity. It's -- that's the 8 only announcement I have. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 10 Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Do you have any 12 housekeeping chores? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Yes, we 14 do. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Take care of 16 them, please. (To Senator Cook) We did your 17 bill. I'm sorry about that. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 23, 19 Senator Libous moves to discharge the Committee 20 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7189-A, and 21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 22 921. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 1 Substitution ordered. 2 Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 4 President. On behalf of Senator Farley, on page 5 22, I offer up the following amendments to 6 Calendar Number 889, Senate Print 2728-A, and 7 ask the said bill retain its place on the Third 8 Reading Calendar. 9 Also, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 11 Kuhl. 12 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr. 13 President, on behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on 14 page 18, I offer the following amendments to 15 Calendar Number 846, Senate Print 4477, and ask 16 that said bill retain its place on the Third 17 Reading Calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 19 Amendments accepted. 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 22 Seward. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: On behalf of 1 Senator Padavan, on page 29, I offer the 2 following amendments to Calendar Number 1213, 3 Senate Print Number 4704-A, and ask that the 4 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading 5 Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 7 Amendments accepted. 8 Senator Kuhl again. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 10 President, on behalf of Senator Spano, I wish to 11 call up his bill, Senate Print 1533, recalled 12 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Secretary 14 will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Spano, 16 Senate Bill Number 1533, an act to amend the 17 Penal Law. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 19 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 20 bill was passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 22 roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 1 reconsideration. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Offer up the 4 following amendments, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 6 Amendments accepted. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 9 Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 11 on behalf of Senator Wright, on page 28, I offer 12 the following amendments to Calendar Number 13 1193, Senate Print 5768, and ask that said bill 14 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Amendment 16 accepted. Senator Seward. 17 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 19 Holland still has the floor. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of 21 Senator Saland, on page 38, I offer the 22 following amendments to Calendar Number 200, 23 Senate Print Number 766, and ask that the said 1 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 2 Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Amendment 4 accepted. Senator Seward. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: I defer to 6 Senator Libous. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 8 Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 10 please remove a star from Calendar 3927-B, 11 Calendar 894. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Star is 13 removed. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: That 17 concludes, I think, the housekeeping business. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 there being no further business, I move that we 20 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senate 22 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. 23 (Whereupon, at 4:25 p.m., the 1 Senate adjourned.) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9