Thursday, July 1, 1993

6580 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 July 1, 1993 11 3:38 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 6581 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will come to order. Please rise with me 4 for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 7 Today in the absence of visiting 8 clergy, we'll bow our heads for a moment of 9 silent prayer. 10 (A moment of silence was 11 observed. ) 12 Secretary will begin by reading 13 the Journal. 14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 15 Wednesday, June 30th. The Senate met pursuant to 16 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 17 designation of the Temporary President. The 18 Journal of Tuesday, June 29th, was read and 19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 The order of business: 6582 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 No report yet? Reports of select 6 committees. 7 Communications and reports from 8 state officers. 9 Motions and resolutions. We have 10 some motions on the floor. 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 On behalf of Senator Seward, on 15 page 18, I offer the following amendments to 16 Calendar Number 793, Senate Print 4053, and ask 17 that said bill retain its place on the Third 18 Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 20 objection. 21 Senator Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 23 would you star my bill, Calendar 1399, Senate 6583 1 5975, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 3 starred at the request of the sponsor. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: It's an honor, Mr. 8 President, standing before you representing one 9 of the great women of our time, Senator Mendez, 10 who has a bill on page 31, Calendar Number 1324, 11 and she asks that that bill be amended but that 12 it retain its place on the Third Reading 13 Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 15 objection, Senator Mendez' bill is amended. 16 Any other motions? Seeing none, 17 we have some substitutions, Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Take care of 19 the substitutions. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitutions. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 9, 23 Senator Holland moves to discharge the Committee 6584 1 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 5242-A, and 2 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 3 441. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Substitution ordered. 6 THE SECRETARY: On page 38, 7 Senator Jones moves to discharge the Committee 8 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6153-B and 9 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 10 1434. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution is ordered. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page 39, 14 Senator Velella moves to discharge the Committee 15 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7161 and 16 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 17 1440. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Substitution ordered. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 39, 21 Senator Padavan moves to discharge the Committee 22 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7872 and 23 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6585 1 1441. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Substitution ordered. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 30, 5 Senator Skelos moves to discharge the Committee 6 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8529 and 7 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 8 1446. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Substitution ordered. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 19, 12 Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the 13 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 14 6960 and substitute it for the identical 15 Calendar Number 846. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution ordered. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 19 Senator Spano moves to discharge the Committee 20 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6985-B and 21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 22 1343. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6586 1 Substitution ordered. 2 We have the Resolution Calendar. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I move that we adopt the Senate Resolution 5 Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 7 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar say 8 aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Those opposed nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The Resolution Calendar is 13 adopted. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 15 recognize Senator Mega, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I 17 shall. Senator Mega. 18 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, I 19 believe I have a privileged resolution at the 20 desk. I would like its title read and I would 21 like the entire resolution read and indicate to 22 the members that the resolution would be open to 23 anyone who wished to become a co-sponsor. 6587 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 Secretary will read Senator Mega's resolution. 3 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 4 Resolution, by Senators Mega, Marino, Galiber 5 and other members of the Senate, expressing 6 sincerest sorrow upon the death of Roy 7 Campanella on June 26th, 1993, at age 71. 8 WHEREAS, consistent with the duty 9 of this legislative body to recognize the 10 contributions of the citizens of this Empire 11 State, we remember with deepest respect and 12 admiration the life and career of a man whose 13 singular example has enriched the lives of his 14 fellow New Yorkers, and indeed the known 15 baseball world; 16 Attendant to such duty and fully 17 in accord with its long-standing traditions, it 18 is the intent of this legislative body to 19 express sincerest sorrow upon the death of Roy 20 Campanella, one of the greatest baseball players 21 to ever grace the friendly confines of Ebbets 22 Field; 23 Roy Campanella was born in 6588 1 Philadelphia on November 19, 1921 to John and 2 Ida Campanella. He attended Simon Gratz High 3 School and quickly developed his baseball 4 skills. In 1937 he joined a semi-pro team in 5 the Negro Leagues and by the time he was 16 was 6 the first-string catcher for the Baltimore Elite 7 Giants of the Negro National League; 8 "Campy", as he was often known, 9 had a stellar career in the Negro Leagues 10 appearing in the East-west All-Star Game in 11 1941, 1944 and 1945, barnstorming through South 12 America, the Caribbean and the American South 13 and playing with such greats as Josh Gibson, Ray 14 Dandridge, Cool Papa Bell, Buck Leonard, 15 "Satchel" Paige, Monte Irvin, Judy Johnson, 16 Oscar Charleston, Dave Malarcher and the great 17 owner and manager, Rube Foster; 18 It was here that Roy Campanella 19 caught the attention of Branch Rickey, the 20 Brooklyn Dodgers' general manager who, in his 21 continuing effort to end the scar of segregation 22 in American baseball, asked Campanella to take a 23 steep pay cut and play for the Dodgers' Nashua 6589 1 team of the New England League; 2 In 1947, Jackie Robinson became 3 the first African-American player to break 4 baseball's infamous color barrier for the 5 Brooklyn Dodgers, while Roy Campanella played 6 for the Dodgers' Triple-A affiliate, the 7 Montreal Monarchs, and was the first to break 8 the color barrier in the minor league American 9 Association; 10 In 1948, Roy Campanella began his 11 ten-year Hall of Fame career with the Brooklyn 12 Dodgers, having an impact during his very first 13 game when he hit a home run, a double and two 14 singles. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just a 16 moment. Senator Mega, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR MEGA: Could we have some 18 order, please. There is some noise in the 19 chamber that is disturbing my concentration on 20 the words that are being read by the Secretary. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Your 22 point is well taken. I would please ask that 23 conversations stop. 6590 1 Secretary will continue. 2 THE SECRETARY: In 1948, Roy 3 Campanella began his ten-year Hall of Fame 4 career with the Brooklyn Dodgers, having an 5 impact during his first game when he hit a home 6 run, a double and two singles. He was named the 7 National League's Most Valuable Player in 1951, 8 1953 and 1955, having his greatest year in 1953 9 when he batted .312 and established three 10 single-season records for a catcher by walloping 11 41 home runs, recording 807 put-outs and 12 knocking in 142 RBIs; 13 Roy Campanella was the dominant 14 catcher of his age playing on the dominant team 15 of his league, "Dem Bums", as the legendary area 16 Dodger teams of the 1950s were known. The 17 Dodgers amassed five National League titles in a 18 span of eight years from 1949 to 1956, defeating 19 their arch rivals, the New York Yankees, in the 20 1955 World Series in which Campanella caught 21 Johnny Podres' seventh game 2-0 complete game 22 shut-out; 23 Over his storied career, Roy 6591 1 Campanella caught three no-hitters, was selected 2 for the All-Star Game eight consecutive years 3 from 1949 to 1956, was one of only eight Dodgers 4 to have his number (39) retired, and in 1969, 5 was only the second African-American player to 6 be elected to the baseball Hall of Fame in 7 Cooperstown, New York; 8 Campanella played with the fabled 9 "Boys of Summer", Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, 10 Jackie Robinson, Peewee Reese, Joe Black, Don 11 Newcombe, Carl Erskine, Don Drysdale, Sandy 12 Koufax, Preacher Roe, Carl Furillo, and Leo "The 13 Lip" Durocher; 14 Roy Campanella will be remembered 15 as much for his skill as for his acumen. Ty 16 Cobb, one of the original five members of the 17 Hall of Fame, was once quoted as saying, 18 "Campanella will be remembered longer than any 19 catcher in baseball history," and although 20 Jackie Robinson was the fire of the Dodgers, 21 "Campy" was the undisputed heart of the team; 22 Roy Campanella's career was 23 tragically cut short by an automobile accident 6592 1 in January of 1958; a four-hour operation saved 2 his life, but he remained in a wheelchair for 3 the rest of his days; 4 His stirring recovery is the 5 stuff of which legends are made. In 1959 over 6 93,000 fans, the largest crowd ever recorded in 7 baseball history, jammed into the Los Angeles 8 Coliseum for Roy Campanella Day to witness an 9 exhibition game between the Dodgers and the 10 Yankees. During the ceremonies, the stadium 11 lights were turned off as the crowd lighted 12 matches and candles in honor of their stricken 13 hero; 14 The Dodgers' greatest catcher 15 became an instructor and coach at the winter 16 home of the team in Vero Beach, Florida, where 17 he imparted his wisdom and experience helping to 18 mold a string of all-star receivers for his old 19 team. His gritty determination to overcome his 20 handicap was also an inspiration to a new 21 generation of youngsters through the baseball 22 clinics he started in 1967 for New York City 23 children and through his work with the Dodgers' 6593 1 community service office in Los Angeles; 2 Rare indeed is such impressive 3 dedication shown by an individual for his craft, 4 such as Roy Campanella has displayed throughout 5 his years playing on the Elysian Fields of 6 summer, and we wish to express our most 7 heartfelt sympathy to his wife, Roxie, and 8 children, Roy Jr., Joni Campanella Roan, 9 Anthony, John and Ruth Campanella Effort; 10 Through his selfless and 11 dedicated commitment to his sport, Roy 12 Campanella brought joy to millions through his 13 art, setting a standard few players can surpass 14 or even equal. His tireless pursuit of 15 perfection in his chosen field marks him as a 16 committed custodian of the American work ethic, 17 and a model for all to emulate. 18 THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that 19 this legislative body pause in its deliberations 20 to express sincerest sorrow upon the death of 21 Roy Campanella, on June 26th, 1993, fully 22 confident that his achievements and 23 contributions will live on to serve as a legacy 6594 1 for all; and 2 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 3 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 4 transmitted to Mrs. Roy Campanella. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Mega. 7 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President, the 8 resolution tells it all, a story about an 9 outstanding ball player, a story about an 10 outstanding and dedicated human being, someone 11 who was dedicated to playing our national game 12 and someone who inspired -- inspired someone 13 like myself, because I was a young man when the 14 Dodgers were in their hey-day. 15 I saw Roy Campanella play many 16 times and all the other players that have been 17 mentioned in the resolution, and I just felt 18 that it was appropriate that this body and in 19 particular the state as a whole recognize 20 someone like Roy Campanella and recognize that 21 what he did for the game of baseball and what he 22 did for young people. 23 He was in baseball at a time when 6595 1 they didn't pay the salaries that they pay 2 today, 5-, 6-, 10-, 15-, $20 million. He came 3 up because of his abilities and, when you looked 4 at Roy Campanella and when you enjoyed what he 5 did in the game, there was never a question of 6 his race or who he was as an individual. He was 7 the kind of individual that we can emulate and 8 look up to, and I was so happy to have grown up 9 in a time when we had someone like Roy 10 Campanella playing baseball. He left a memory 11 in the game that will be there forever and, yes, 12 he may be and will be one of the greatest 13 catchers that ever played the game of baseball, 14 and I ask that all my members support the 15 resolution and, as I indicated, all members 16 wishing to co-sponsor are welcome to do so. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 18 resolution, all in favor say aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Those opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The resolution is unanimously 23 adopted. Senator Cook -- every member is 6596 1 already on it. Every member is already on it. 2 Senator Present, we have a report 3 of a standing committee. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Please receive 5 the report of the standing committee. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Secretary will read a report of a standing 8 committee, namely Rules. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 10 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 11 following bills directly for third reading: 12 Senate Bill Number 597, by 13 Senator Connor, an act to allow Mary Ellen 14 Adinolfi to file a request for Tier I; 15 1966, by Senator LaValle, an act 16 to allow Elaine S. Harrison to file a request 17 for retroactive membership in the employees 18 retirement; 19 2340-A, by Senator Wright, an act 20 to amend the Executive Law and the State 21 Administrative Procedure Act; 22 3081, by Senator Masiello, Public 23 Housing Law; 6597 1 4266, by Senator Stafford, 2 Abandoned Property Law; 3 4922, by Senator Maltese, an act 4 to amend the Tax Law; 5 5333-A, by Senator Holland, 6 Social Services Law; 7 5337-A, by Senator Johnson, Local 8 Finance Law; 9 5486-B, by Senator Larkin, Real 10 Property Tax Law; 11 5705-C, by Senator Larkin, 12 General Municipal Law and the Public Authorities 13 Law; 14 5803, by Senator Goodman, Charter 15 Society of the New York Hospital; 16 5877, by Senator Mega, Estates, 17 Powers and Trusts Law; 18 5932-B, by Senator Bruno, Civil 19 Practice Law and Rules; 20 5967, by Senator Libous, 21 Education Law; 22 5979, by Senator Saland, and 23 others, an act to amend the Tax Law; 6598 1 6019, by Senator Hannon, an act 2 to amend the Banking Law; 3 6021, by Senator Wright, 4 Executive Law; 5 6024, by Senator Halperin, 6 Administrative Code of the city of New York; 7 6037, by Senator Johnson, Social 8 Services Law; 9 6044-A, by Senator Nozzolio, 10 Election Law; 11 6059, by the Committee on Rules, 12 Retirement and Social Security Law; 13 6060, by the Committee on Rules, 14 to provide service credit to Richard -- Rita 15 Schick; 16 6062-A, by Senator Libous, the 17 Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse 18 Services; and 19 6065, by the Committee on Rules, 20 state aid to the Unitego Central School 21 District. 22 All bills reported directly for 23 third reading. 6599 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 2 bills are reported directly to third reading. 3 Are there any motions on the 4 floor? 5 Senator Present, that concludes 6 most of our housekeeping. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 can we take up the non-controversial calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Non-controversial, Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 12 Calendar Number 59, by Senator Hannon, Senate 13 Bill Number 279-B, authorize payments in lieu of 14 taxes by the county of Nassau. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 102, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 20 2354-B, Economic Development Law. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 23 aside. 6600 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 133, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 3 Assembly Bill Number 7767-A, an act to amend the 4 Court of Claims Act. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Hold on. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold it 9 up one second. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Last 12 section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 174, by Senator Farley. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 6601 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 232, by Senator Gold, Senate Bill Number 289-B, 5 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Gold's bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 304, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 18 568-B, an act to amend the Banking Law and the 19 Real Property Tax Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6602 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 315, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 8273-A, State 10 Administrative Procedure Act. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 370, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 23 2726-B, an act to amend the Banking Law. 6603 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 9 may I have unanimous consent to be excused from 10 voting on this bill? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Leichter is excused from voting. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 -- in relation to Calendar Number 395, Senator 18 Kuhl moves to discharge the Committee on Rules 19 from Assembly Bill Number 3819-B and substitute 20 it for the identical Calendar Number 395. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 23 section. 6604 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 2 the day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 4 aside for the day. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 546, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Bill Number 7884-A, Real Property Tax 8 Law, in relation to assessment disclosure 9 notices. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 591, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 4426-A, 22 Agriculture and Markets Law. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 6605 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 727, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 4887-B, 5 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 900, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number 18 3919-C, amends Chapter 812 of the Laws of 1983. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last - 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside. 6606 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 950, by Senator Hannon. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 951, by Senator Stafford. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1001, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 13 4329-A, authorize the transfer of retirement 14 service credit for Joseph Sabo. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48, nays 3, 23 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 6607 1 the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1042, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 6 Assembly Bill Number 7933-A, Commissioner of 7 Social Services to convene a work group. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly, 20 Assembly Bill Number 2396 - 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 23 aside. 6608 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1217, by Sen... 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1236, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 8 5866-A, create a Motor Carrier Advisory 9 Council. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 SENATOR GOLD: No, hold on just a 13 second. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 15 on, hold it up. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1250, by Senator Hannon. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: For the 23 day? 6609 1 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, 3 just lay it aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 8 aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 11 5900, an act to amend the Environmental 12 Conservation Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the - 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1313, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 20 5253-A, Real Property Law and Chapter 726 of the 21 Laws of 1991. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 6610 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 SENATOR GOLD: Hold -- hold on. 7 Hold on. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Withdraw the roll call for the moment. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1316, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 15 Assembly Bill Number 8371, an act to amend the 16 Education Law, in relation to the frequency of a 17 school census. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 6611 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: 1338, by Senator 6 Hannon. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside, 8 please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: 1364, by Senator 12 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2623-A. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1371. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1389, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill - 6612 1 SENATOR PATAKI: Lay aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1391, by Senator Lack. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Lay 7 aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1409, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 12 1196-A, establish a temporary state commission 13 on real property taxation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 22 that bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6613 1 1412, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 2 3527-B, to provide for the payment allowances to 3 private blind and deaf schools. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1413, by member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly 16 Bill Number 6859, an act to amend the Executive 17 Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act - 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6614 1 aside. Don't read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1418, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill 50... 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 6 that bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1420, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 9 5255-A, an act to amend the Not-for-Profit 10 Corporation Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a second. 22 Last section. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6615 1 bill's already passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1422, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 4 5665, amends Chapter 611 of the Laws of 1977. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1423, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 10 Bill Number 5702-A. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1427, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 17 5926, amends Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993, 18 constituting the state operations budget. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6616 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1429, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 6003, 8 Retirement and Social Security Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 10 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 11 read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Withdraw the roll call, lay that bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1431, by the Senate - 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6617 1 aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1432, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Bill Number 4 478-A, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court 5 Procedure Act. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1433, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 18 3407-B. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1434, by member of the Assembly Alesi, Assembly 6618 1 Bill Number 6153-B, authorize the county of 2 Monroe to convey certain lands. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1435, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 15 3800-A, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 16 Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 23 aside. 6619 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1436. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 4 for the day, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6 aside for the day. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1437, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 9 4071, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 10 Security Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1438, by Senator Marino. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 6620 1 please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1440, by member of the Assembly Clark, 6 substituted earlier today, Assembly Bill Number 7 7161, an act to amend the Transportation Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1441, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 20 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7872, 21 Real Property Tax Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 6621 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1442, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 11 5520-A, to allow certain persons to obtain - 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1443, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 17 5777-A, in relation to permitting George R. 18 Blair, a member of the New York State and local 19 employees' retirement system to purchase service 20 credit. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside. 6622 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1444, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 5985, 3 an act to amend the Uniform City Court Act. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 12 one, Senator Libous recorded in the negative. 13 Also Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1446, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 18 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8529, 19 Estates, Powers and Trusts Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6623 1 aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1447, by Senator Cook. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1448, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 9 6017, authorize Steven Kenyon to transfer credit 10 earned in the New York State Teachers' 11 Retirement. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1449, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 6018. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1451, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 22 6033, setting the taxable status date of real 23 property in the town of Lafayette. 6624 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1452, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 6 Bill Number 6046, an act to amend the Tax Law 7 and the General City Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 12 aside. 13 Senator Padavan. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, with 15 unanimous consent may I be recorded in the 16 negative on 1444. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 18 objection, 1444, Senator Padavan is in the 19 negative. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1453, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Bill Number 6047, an act to amend the General 23 Municipal Law. 6625 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 2 a home rule message here at the desk. You can 3 read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50 -- ayes 10 51, nays 1, Senator Pataki recorded in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 I'd like to have unanimous consent to be 17 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 18 1444. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Skelos is in the negative on 1444. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: I likewise would 6626 1 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 2 negative on Calendar 1444. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 4 objection. 5 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Senator. 8 SENATOR PATAKI: I would also 9 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 10 negative on Calendar 1444. 11 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 12 I request unanimous consents to be recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 1444. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 15 objection. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, can 17 we reconsider the vote by which Calendar 1444 18 passed the house. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll on reconsideration. 21 (The Secretary called the roll on 22 reconsideration. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 6627 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. The bill is before the house. 3 It's laid aside. I apologize. It had passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1454, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 6 Bill Number 6048, an act to amend the Tax Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the -- lay it aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1457, by the Senate Committee on Rules. 11 THE SECRETARY: Bill is high. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 13 bill is high, so we got to lay it aside. 14 That's the first time through. 15 Senator Volker is going to relieve me and - 16 Senator DeFrancisco. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I have 18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 19 on Calendar 1453, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1453, 21 Senator DeFrancisco? 1453, you're in the 22 negative. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6628 1 can we call up Calendar 174, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 3 will read Calendar 174. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 174, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1522, 6 an act to amend Chapter 883 of the Laws of 1980 7 amending the Banking Law generally. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 9 the last section. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 12 Farley. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 14 have a number of amendments to this bill and 15 some comments, but I'd be happy to yield to you 16 if you want to explain this piece of 17 legislation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Farley, would you like to explain your bill? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I would. 21 Incidentally, I think we're about to see a 22 record number of amendments, 14, as I recall to 23 this bill. 6629 1 Let me just explain this, if I 2 may, because this is one of the more important 3 issues facing this Legislature this year. This 4 is not the bill that we planned on moving. 5 We've been under negotiations since January, 6 still are under negotiation. Something may 7 happen, but this is a bill that I think we need 8 to pass. 9 The Assembly helped develop the 10 package, and the Governor and the Senate were 11 ready to finalize these pieces and to act on 12 them. However, the Assembly has backed away. 13 Both the Governor and the Senate are frustrated 14 about how to conclude this issue and how to 15 conclude it. The Superintendent is trying to 16 convince them to act on this package and, 17 hopefully, this bill might be a start to act on 18 it. 19 Let me just talk about this for a 20 moment. I could get into all the negotiations 21 but I won't. This is a situation I'd hoped to 22 avoid. We wanted to resolve it a long time 23 ago. 6630 1 This suggestion illustrates why 2 the continued sunset date is a problem for our 3 state's economy. We are sending an extremely 4 negative message to the financial community. If 5 you have to make decisions on where to locate 6 your business, buy what you want to locate in 7 New York, where you essentially have a gun to 8 New York. Both in 1987 and this year, we have 9 gone to the last day. 10 The Governor's office approached 11 a financial company about the possibility of 12 locating some of its operational facilities in 13 New York State. The company pointed out that 14 because of the potential of sunset deregulation, 15 they could never be sure of their ability to 16 operate in New York State. So why would they 17 have any interest in building a facility in New 18 York State? 19 Let me remind you, we have lost 20 thousands of jobs and a substantial amount of 21 tax revenue. Banks like Citibank, Chase Bank, 22 must be congratulating themselves right now for 23 having moved their credit card operations out of 6631 1 state. Banks like Chemical, Marine, must be 2 kicking themselves for choosing to move back to 3 New York State. 4 We are sending a message to 5 states like Delaware and South Dakota that they 6 should continue their efforts to recruit New 7 York operations. Let me remind you people, our 8 state laws only have a limited impact on New 9 York State consumers who have credit cards. 10 These laws only affect cards issued by New York 11 State-based issuers. Of the top 25 credit card 12 issuers in the United States, only one, one, has 13 a credit card operation in New York State. What 14 a tragedy! 15 Let me point out that, when the 16 federal government preempted state interest rate 17 limits on mortgages, they enacted permanent 18 legislation. Obviously nothing is permanent. 19 The Legislature can always amend the law. 20 However, the sunset serves as a gun to the 21 head. Why would you want to locate your 22 operations in New York if you are subject to 23 this threat? 6632 1 State laws do not effectively 2 limit interest rates. Interest rates are beyond 3 and out of our control. We could just as 4 effectively pass a bill that says a gallon of 5 gas will not cost more than a dollar. The 6 effect of our limits on interest rates is to 7 reduce the availability of credit and when the 8 market rates rise above the statutory rate. 9 Let me address some of the facts 10 that people portray these deregulation laws as 11 being anti-consumer. Is it anti-consumer that 12 we have made credit more available, allowing 13 people to choose the type of credit they want? 14 Is it anti-consumer that we have fostered 15 competition in the industry which also provides 16 people with more choices? Is it anti-consumer 17 that we have kept jobs in New York State when 18 they could have easily gone to another state? 19 After the two deregulation laws 20 were passed in 1989 and 1992, my office received 21 many calls from people who were angry about 22 these new provisions and the effect they would 23 have on credit cards. This is where we made our 6633 1 laws uniform with the rest of the nation. So we 2 asked them what credit cards did they have. 3 They had Citibank cards, Discover cards, 4 American Express, AT&T, USAA cards, and so 5 forth, and so on. 6 We then pointed out to these 7 people that the laws that we just passed had 8 absolutely no effect on their cards. They were 9 already subject to the same laws that New York 10 State had already just passed. They did not 11 consider themselves harmed. 12 What would happen if we did not 13 pass the banking deregulation? I just want to 14 -- this is mind-boggling. Interest on consumer 15 loans issued in New York State would revert to a 16 maximum of 12 percent. Currently some consumers 17 with outstanding credit ratings would be unable 18 to obtain auto loans, personal loans, retail 19 installment loans, and the like. What would 20 happen when the current rates increase again? 21 In the 1970s the state was 22 continually involved in making minor adjustments 23 to the maximum rate, but we also trailed the 6634 1 market, and few people were able to obtain 2 loans. 3 Interest rates on credit cards, 4 only state-chartered cards would revert to a 5 maximum of 18 percent on the first 500, 12 6 percent on over $500 and, incidentally, would be 7 capped at $500. That's it. The authority of 8 banks to issue variable rate loans would 9 terminate if we don't pass this, because the 10 legal authority of underlying loan agreements 11 would no longer exist. 12 Incidentally, it's my 13 understanding that home equity loans would 14 become due and owing instantly. The authority 15 of state-chartered thrifts and licensed lenders 16 to issue second mortgages would terminate. 17 Balances on home equity loans might become due 18 immediately. The maximum size of a consumer 19 loan would be reduced. 20 Banks would no longer be required 21 to offer checking accounts in which they would 22 have to return the canceled checks. Consumers 23 would no longer be able to obtain grace periods 6635 1 on their credit cards. Current card holders 2 would see their rates increase. Banks would no 3 longer be required to meet statutory standards 4 for prompt clearing of checks written to small 5 businesses, which would create cash flow 6 problems unbelievably. 7 Consumers would no longer be able 8 to obtain a cash advance using their ATM. 9 Consumers would have to appear in person at a 10 bank. Lenders could once again use the role of 11 '78 in computing the amount due when a loan is 12 paid off early. This method increases consumer 13 costs by creating hidden prepayment penalties. 14 The operation also disrupts bank offices, credit 15 card issuers and lending units that would result 16 in confusion and errors. 17 What does this bill do? This bill 18 is about as simple as we could make it. This is 19 the current law that this house, the other house 20 and the Governor signed that is currently in 21 place. That's all it is. There is not another 22 period, another anything added to it except it 23 makes it permanent. In other words, there's no 6636 1 sunset date. 2 The provisions of this law 3 include deregulation of interest rates on 4 consumer loans, the ability to offer variable 5 loans and the regulation of how these rates may 6 vary, provision for partial refunds of credit 7 card annual fees, revisions of credit card laws 8 in order to make New York more attractive, 9 business loans for credit card issuers, 10 prohibition of the rule of '78, removal of 11 limits from maximum length of loan, extension of 12 expedited funds, the requirement that banks and 13 other financial institutions which offer 14 checking accounts must -- on which canceled 15 checks have to be returned to the consumer. 16 Why should we make this law 17 permanent? It ensures that credit is available 18 to consumers and if somebody has to have a loan 19 unfortunately, they have to have the loan. 20 That's why we have loan sharks and a few other 21 unsavory people in this business. It encourages 22 competition between lenders. It preserves and 23 expands the credit card jobs in New York State. 6637 1 We were able, this house was 2 able, was it last year or year before, I don't 3 know, last year or recently, to bring back 4 thousands of jobs to this state. When Chemical 5 Bank merged with Manufacturers Hanover, the one 6 credit card operation of any substance left in 7 this state, they closed their Chemical operation 8 in Delaware and moved it back to Long Island, a 9 significant thing that I think the entire state 10 is grateful for. Marine Midland moved their 11 bank credit card operation back. Key Bank did a 12 U-turn. They're on their way to Utah. They not 13 only brought their credit card back to here in 14 Albany; they came back to the state charter, the 15 first bank to do that in years and years and 16 years. 17 You know, we lost all the S & Ls 18 to federal charters back when we wouldn't do 19 anything in regard to interest rates. But we've 20 made some strides. I think our Superintendent 21 Derrick Cephas has done a magnificent job of 22 sending a message out there that this Legisla 23 ture is not anti the financial institutions. 6638 1 New York State is the financial 2 capital of the world and, of course, New York 3 City is the financial capital of the world times 4 ten, and this piece of legislation is absolutely 5 essential. 6 I -- you must bear in mind, have 7 you bear in mind that whatever you do, all the 8 good consumer things that Senator Leichter is 9 going to offer to us in 14 amendments of record, 10 this will only affect a few New York 11 state-chartered banks that we've got left. It 12 will be a tremendous encouragement to say, Let's 13 go get a federal charter and get away from this 14 friend of the American banker. 15 I ask you to support this bill. 16 I think it's significant and it's important and 17 it's good for the economy of this state. It's 18 good for the consumer and it's good for you. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Farley, I 6639 1 wish I had an immediate transcript of everything 2 you've said because there's a lot I would like 3 to repeat, only to change some of the bill 4 numbers and some of the references because it 5 applies to a lot of other pieces of 6 legislation. 7 But one thing that you did say, 8 Senator, is that sunsets are like a gun to the 9 head, that was a great phrase, and Senator 10 Leichter and Senator Dollinger and I wish we had 11 thought of it. It's a great -- a great phrase. 12 So I say to myself, if sunsets are a gun to the 13 head, then why, thinking back to the story I 14 think it was in the Daily News or Newsday 15 yesterday, calling this the session of all 16 sessions when it comes to extenders. We have a 17 (backgrounds noise-difficult to understand) 18 termination of railroads, ceilings it says here, 19 runs out, the proposal is a one-year extender. 20 I guess they need a gun to their head, 21 regulations taking of bear, there's another one, 22 that's a two-year extender. Co-op conversion in 23 Nassau and Westchester, two-year extender. Rent 6640 1 control, see we've done good on that; we've 2 already run seven days and eight days and even 3 had one day. I assume tonight there will be a 4 half a day, and I'm waiting for that one-hour 5 extender when Senator Present can shuttle back 6 and forth between the Rules to make it on time. 7 Temporary investments, what do we 8 have here, Erie County telephone accounts, and 9 wagering, two-year extender, para-transit, well, 10 they need the bill on that. Insurance 11 Department, medical malpractice, two or 12 three-year extenders. Alcoholic beverage, 13 sports facilities, extenders. 14 I look through this, Senator 15 Farley, and I say to myself, isn't it 16 fascinating, the only place they're talking 17 about permanentizing something is with the big 18 money banks. 19 Well, Senator, I want this 20 Legislature to be consistent, and I'm offering 21 the following amendment. It's at the desk. I 22 move it, waive its reading and I'll explain it 23 very, very briefly. 6641 1 All this does is, it changes the 2 date and extends this for seven months. That's 3 what we need in this situation. We need an 4 extender. We ought to look at it a little more, 5 make sure it's really in the best interests and 6 show everybody that this state Legislature has a 7 fair price. I wouldn't want, Senator Farley, 8 anybody to get the idea that just because you're 9 a bank and you got big money, you don't get 10 extenders, you get permanentized, whereas if 11 you're tenants, you get raked over the coals, if 12 you're a telephone company, if you're doctors, 13 God almighty, I'm getting calls from doctors, 14 What are you guys doing to us? I mean, after 15 all, I guess doctors, they're easy to push 16 around, but I guess the banking lobby is a 17 little bigger and a little better. 18 I think this makes us look really 19 terrible, but I've said it so often, I get the 20 feeling that maybe just nobody case. It's that 21 -- it's that analogy that I thought of about a 22 week ago, and I'm going to say it until you're 23 sick of hearing it which may be already, the 6642 1 tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it. 2 Does it make any noise? 3 As long as you guys get away with 4 it day after day, I don't blame you for not 5 changing. I don't blame you; it's good 6 business. If you're doing all these ridiculous 7 outrageous things and nobody is fighting about 8 it and nobody cares, so why should you change 9 your ways? Doesn't make any sense to me but 10 we're going to try. 11 I know Senator Leichter has some 12 -- some really good amendments that, in 13 addition to taking care of the banks, would take 14 care of the people what aren't going to live in 15 this state, but I think we ought to put this in 16 perspective, and I offer the amendment. It 17 would make it not permanent, but would give us a 18 nice extender, and I offer the amendment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On the 20 amendment. On the amendment, all those in favor 21 signify by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 Those opposed? 6643 1 (Response of "No." ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 3 nays have it. The amendment is defeated. 4 Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 6 President. Let me put this debate a little more 7 in -- in context. 8 I appreciate the speech that 9 Senator Farley read. It was good reading, but 10 let's -- but let's look at it where it is, and 11 let's -- let's deal with the legislation. Let's 12 deal with the facts and not press releases that 13 have been written. 14 In 1981, we deregulated 15 interested rates, and we had to deregulate 16 interest rates because they -- nationwide, the 17 interest rates or the prime rate was at 20 18 percent, 21 percent, and it was obviously 19 difficult for us to maintain the rates which at 20 that time we sought to regulate, although let me 21 point out that for over a century, we had 22 regulated rates in New York State and it was the 23 time of the greatest prosperity. 6644 1 But we appreciate, understand, 2 that the world financial arena has changed and 3 we have to do it, and at that time, we were 4 promised by the banks that the interest rates 5 that we would pay as consumers and the interest 6 rates that you would pay on credit cards will 7 now reflect national trends. 8 Oh, yes, when national interest 9 rates are high, then your interest rates and 10 credit cards are going to be high, but we were 11 told, just wait until the interest rates go down 12 and you, the consumer, are going to reap all 13 those benefits. 14 So what -- what happened? Just - 15 just going to show you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 17 Leichter, are you making like another member, 18 Senator? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I want 20 to make it clear, and I want to make it simple. 21 Senator Farley said, "I want to make it 22 simple." Senator, you've made it extremely 23 simple. I'm just going to bring these out 6645 1 (referring to charts) at least and make it 2 clear, not simple. 3 Here you see in the light gray 4 you see the discount rate which pretty much 5 tracks the national interest rates. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 Present, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 I'm afraid that a practice is being taken now 10 that's not a custom in this chamber, and I think 11 we've called people on it before, one of our 12 own. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 14 Present, I have the greatest respect for you and 15 you run this house in a very fair manner and a 16 calm manner, and I don't want to quarrel with 17 you, but I do seem to remember some other 18 times. In fact, I've gotten up here and used 19 these visual displays. I don't think they're 20 offensive. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: I'm not saying 22 they are. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I know that 6646 1 Senator Goodman has used these visual displays 2 and I don't think anybody objected to his use. 3 That's right. I'm reminded that we even had 4 people bringing guns and brandishing them in the 5 chamber, and I assure you that these are less 6 dangerous than those guns, that are in place. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator, other 8 members have been called on this same issue and 9 I'd like to hold to the procedure we have used 10 in the past. I don't think anything is lost 11 without your charts. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 14 Gold, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 16 President. I appreciate when Senator Present 17 says that -- that he wants to be fair, that - 18 that comes from the heart, and I respect that, 19 but may I say something? I think that there is a 20 misconception here. I remember way back in the 21 -- in the '60s debates between Senator Thaler, 22 may he rest in peace, and Senator Knorr, may he 23 rest in peace, and holding up pictures of art 6647 1 when they were discussing pornography bills. 2 There is nothing offensive about 3 a member coming here. We are not throwing other 4 members out of their seats. He's got a chart. 5 I assume, because of my experience here which is 6 unfortunately vast, that we may not win these 7 amendments, but free and open debate is aided by 8 what Senator Leichter is doing. It's -- I don't 9 understand why we -- we are making this 10 objection. 11 I tell you, Senator Present, if 12 any of your members want to come out here with 13 charts, I'm not going to object. I -- I think 14 people should be allowed to explain things in 15 the best way they can, and that means Republican 16 people and Democratic people. There is nothing 17 offensive. The nude woman who was supposed to 18 hold that up did not show up today. It's only 19 Senator Leichter holding up a sign and 20 explaining his amendment, and I would urge, 21 Senator Present, I know -- I know you want to be 22 fair, and you always are, always, I wouldn't 23 object on your side. I think that it happens 6648 1 very rarely, but when it happens it's usually 2 helpful, and I would urge perhaps you wouldn't 3 press your -- your point. 4 I see no harm being created, and 5 you have my word that I certainly wouldn't do 6 that to anybody on your side. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: I don't think 10 we're withholding any words that might come out 11 of Senator Leichter's mouth, and we certainly 12 don't want to do that. I don't think that his 13 charts -- and I haven't looked at them and no 14 one else can really see them from where they sit 15 -- add anything to the debate going on relative 16 to these amendments. So I do object. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 20 Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just because 22 of the great respect that I have for Senator 23 Present and the very fair manner in which he's 6649 1 generally run this house, I'm not going to press 2 the issue. I think it's unfortunate. I will 3 try to explain it. I think it would have been 4 helpful, Senator, but somebody said that that 5 naked woman that Senator Gold -- I brought her 6 with me but nobody would be objecting. 7 But all right, be that as it may, 8 but let's get back to, I think, something that's 9 really important, and I think something that 10 requires us to understand that as national 11 interest rates decline and decline even 12 precipitously, that the rates charged to 13 consumers on loans and the rates charged on 14 credit cards remain high, and what this chart 15 would have shown you is the enormous disparity 16 between rates that are charged by national banks 17 on -- and major banks, not only national banks 18 but major banks on credit cards and the amount, 19 the cost of money to these banks. 20 The discount rate is now at 3.5. 21 Interest rates until very recently averaged over 22 19 percent. Never in our history has there been 23 that large a spread between what banks pay and 6650 1 what -- what banks pay for monies and what they 2 charge the consumer. So it is - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Solomon, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Will Senator 6 Leichter yield, please? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Leichter, will you yield to Senator Solomon? 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator 10 Leichter, since we were here this late last 11 night, I'm having difficulty understanding this 12 debate. Is there any way you can use to show me 13 graphically? 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'll take you 15 aside, and say "Psst-psst", and say, "Anybody 16 wanted to see a dirty chart?" It is a dirty 17 chart because dirt has been done to the 18 consumers of the state and there is no excuse 19 whatsoever for the high interest rates, and what 20 really happened is that, when we deregulated, we 21 let that genie out of the bottle and it's, of 22 course, impossible to put the genie back in. 23 So I think those of us ought to 6651 1 be very clear that bank deregulation was a mixed 2 benefit at the time to the people of this 3 state. I mean Senator Farley would like you to 4 believe it was the best thing that happened 5 since sliced bread. Indeed, it was something 6 that caused a lot of economic pain in this state 7 because what do high interest rates mean? High 8 interest rates mean less consumer activity. 9 What do high interest rates mean? High interest 10 rates mean less borrowing by small businesses. 11 Senator Farley said, so, we make 12 credit available. You tell me, in the last few 13 years, has credit been available in this state? 14 Have small businesses had access to credit? Of 15 course they haven't. So it's been a mixed 16 picture. 17 But I'm not up here arguing, nor 18 is anybody arguing that we ought to reregulate. 19 I think there are ways to set up fair caps on 20 interest but, in this respect, Senator Farley is 21 correct that it probably requires national 22 legislation, and indeed we had such legislation 23 under consideration in the house. Our 6652 1 Representative Biaggi was one of the main 2 exponents of that, as was Representative 3 Schumer. 4 So we're not proposing, and I'm 5 not proposing by any amendment that we put any 6 cap on interest rates, but we need to understand 7 what it is we're dealing with and we ought to 8 understand both the good and the bad and we 9 ought to give a balanced picture because I'm 10 going to be leading up to some amendments that 11 will actually try to create that balance which I 12 think we need to do between the interest of 13 financial institutions and the interest of the 14 consumer. 15 Now, we've been extending bank 16 deregulation over the years. I don't know 17 whether it was two years or six years but there 18 have been a number of extenders, and this year 19 the proposal was made by the financial 20 institution, Hey, guys, make it permanent. 21 Well, if we're going to give you 22 the benefit, you, the financial institution 23 whose record has been very, very mixed not only 6653 1 on how they treated the consumers but in the way 2 they ran their business, the terrible mistakes 3 they have made, in loans to Third World 4 countries, the term mistakes they made in real 5 estate loans which really very much affected the 6 financial viability of these institutions, and 7 we were very concerned two or three years ago 8 that we would have major banks that could 9 conceivably fail, and we know that the banks 10 responded by trying to get more and more profit 11 out of consumer banking, not only the high 12 interest rates, but also the charges that they 13 made for basic banking services, to the point 14 that many people were really priced out of 15 banking services. They couldn't afford it. 16 Senior citizens could not afford it. 17 We also know that, particularly 18 in urban areas, banks closed branches, and we 19 found vast -- vast areas of our urban 20 communities, many neighborhoods with no banking 21 services whatsoever. 22 So having in mind that very mixed 23 picture and having in mind the difficulties and 6654 1 the hardship that consumers were having and also 2 the economic needs of small businesses to try to 3 really create jobs, Senator Farley, not a lot of 4 illusory jobs, there was an effort this year and 5 it still is continuing that, if we're going to 6 make bank deregulation permanent that there 7 needs to be focus on the consumer also. 8 Senator Farley, our job here is 9 not just to serve the large financial interests, 10 and I -- I would imagine you would agree with 11 that, but when I take a look at what we've been 12 doing, yesterday we served -- I say we; it was 13 the Majority or those people who voted for the 14 so-called luxury decontrol bill. Who was being 15 served? The large real estate holders. And 16 today, who is being served by a bill, Senator 17 Farley's bill, which makes bank deregulation 18 permanent without any -- without any new help or 19 assistance to the consumers? Who's being served? 20 The large financial institutions. 21 So, Senator Farley, the effort 22 that's been made this year is to try to always 23 provide some benefits for the consumers. Now, I 6655 1 know you're going to say, well, they're -- we're 2 also making permanent in this bill, consumer 3 provisions such as quicker access to money 4 which, by the way, was my bill originally, my 5 proposal and, yes, that's in there. 6 But how about dealing with all of 7 the ills that have flown from deregulation - 8 the high interest rates, the lack of credit, the 9 way that consumers are being hoodwinked as to 10 interest rates, and so on? Why not address that? 11 And the Assembly has sought to do this, but it's 12 this house once again serving mainly the 13 interest of special interests and wealthy 14 special interests, that has refused to do that. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Senator, would 16 you yield? 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I will 18 yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 20 Farley. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: You mean to tell 22 me that part of this banking deregulation that's 23 in there, you want me to expunge that or what do 6656 1 you want me to do? 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 3 just said that. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm saying - 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: I just said 6 that it's in there. I said that. You get up 7 like an echo and say that I'm correct. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: No, I'm not 9 saying that. I'm saying, are you concerned 10 about that? Do you want to take that away or are 11 you going to vote against that? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I am 13 going to vote against a bill that completely 14 ignores the needs of the consumer as they exist 15 now in 1993. That's what I'm going to vote 16 against, and what I'm addressing, Senator, is 17 that in a bill which makes permanent 18 deregulation which is very much desired and 19 wanted by the banks that you have, I think, an 20 obligation and certainly an opportunity to 21 provide for the consumers, and I'm asking you 22 not to be so one-sided, not to be so unbalanced, 23 but to have some concern for the consumer. 6657 1 There are millions of consumers out there who 2 I'm sure will agree that the interest rates are 3 shockingly high, who will agree that, when you 4 get your statement from your credit card 5 company, it is highly misleading or certainly 6 not informative. 7 There are millions of consumers 8 who would agree that we ought to have lifeline 9 banking. There are millions of consumers who 10 would say that we ought to let -- we ought to 11 know whether many local banks are serving small 12 businesses. That's what we're talking about. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me answer. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 15 Leichter, you continue to yield. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Would you yield? 18 I'll just answer to this concern because let me 19 just tell you that there was an essence of 20 agreement on a number of areas that you're 21 concerned with, but somehow or other it keeps 22 coming unravelled over in that other house. 23 A proposal to establish two small 6658 1 business investment companies, one that would 2 help minority businesses, one that would help 3 small businesses leverage close to $93 million 4 to help the economy of this state. We also had 5 life line banking. We also had a part of the 6 agreement to prevent geographic criteria such as 7 the "ten block rule" which I think you can 8 understand. We also were going to establish a 9 toll-free telephone where they could get the 10 interest rates on credit cards, and I know 11 you're very concerned about that, the lowest 12 interest rates I presume, and the highest. 13 We were working on a proposal to 14 collect and make readily available to the public 15 information on commercial and geo... and 16 agricultural loans and several other things. So 17 those were pretty much agreed to and we were 18 ready to do it in this house. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 20 me ask you by asking you a question if I may, if 21 you would yield. Senator, do you think that 22 these matters, those issues that you've just 23 mentioned should be done? 6659 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 3 then why aren't you doing them? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: Because the 5 other house won't do 'em. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 7 Senator, if you'll yield again. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 9 Senator, please address the Chair, if you 10 would. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry. If 12 -- Mr. President, if Senator Farley would just 13 yield again because he's totally confused me. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 15 Farley. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Farley 17 has now conceded, as I've tried to maintain, 18 that this is an unbalanced bill, that it needs 19 certain things to address unfairness to the 20 consumers. You gave me six items that you just 21 said should be done. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: I didn't say 23 that. That's your wording. 6660 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I think 2 the - 3 SENATOR FARLEY: You're jumping, 4 making a quantum leap, Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 6 I'm not going to ask the reporter to read but - 7 SENATOR FARLEY: No, it isn't 8 that. I said we had agreed to do this, to get 9 permanency. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Do I think we 12 need permanency? I certainly do. Does the 13 financial community think we need permanency? 14 They certainly do. Does the Governor think we 15 need permanency? I believe he does. Does the 16 Superintendent of Banks? Yes. Does the Speaker? 17 He says he's committed to it. Only trouble of 18 it is, we can't seem to be getting it. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I suppose 6661 1 those members that are listening will remember 2 distinctly that I asked Senator Farley, do you 3 think those items that you just mentioned which 4 Senator Farley said are helpful to the consumer 5 should be in the bill, and his answer was yes. 6 Well, Mr. President, if those 7 things should be in the bill, I don't know why 8 Senator Farley put before you -- puts before us 9 a bill that does not contain these provisions 10 and to say that the Assembly didn't agree on 11 something else, I can't understand it, because I 12 think what it shows very clearly is that it's 13 the other house that has been pushing for these 14 consumer measures. 15 Your role, as you see it, is to 16 serve the banks. Our role as I see it, Senator 17 is to serve the banks and the consumers and 18 those matters that you mentioned should be in 19 here and they should be in here in a meaningful 20 way. Some of the bills that I saw really 21 provided these so-called consumer benefits as a 22 fig leaf to cover up what was an enormous 23 benefit, and a gain and a gift to financial 6662 1 institutions. 2 I'm going to move my amendments. 3 I'm going to do them very quickly. I just want 4 to just mention a few other things. 5 One of the real problems we have 6 in this state in job loss is because of the 7 inability to get credit, and one of the things 8 we need to address is having credit more 9 available, and my amendments and other proposals 10 do that. The bill that Senator Farley has 11 before us does not because it gives the banks 12 what they want and it gives nothing back to the 13 people of the state. 14 Let me finally just say, Senator 15 Farley, in general comment on your bill as you 16 described it, it was the sort of thing where the 17 people ought to go to the banks, run with the - 18 rush to the banks and kiss the hands of the bank 19 officers and thank you so much, thank you so 20 much for those high interest rates, thank you so 21 much for not making credit available to -- to 22 small businesses. 23 I mean are people supposed to 6663 1 jump for joy, Senator, for the way that the 2 banking consumers have been treated. I submit 3 not. Now, there are things that we can do under 4 the law that affect not only state-chartered 5 banks, and obviously we can affect them and 6 Senator Farley is correct there are certain 7 things, for instance, if we reregulated interest 8 rates or sought to put any cap on it, that would 9 apply only to state-chartered banks, but if we 10 have provisions as I'm going to propose which 11 require disclosure, Senator, require disclosure, 12 fairness -- fairness -- that can apply to 13 national banks as well as to state-chartered 14 banks. 15 I'm going to move some of the 16 amendments now, just to give people an idea what 17 we should be doing and hopefully try to get some 18 support here, try to create a consensus so that 19 we do provide service to the people of the state 20 and not just to large financial institutions, 21 and I'm going to move, Mr. President -- and I 22 know there are certain amendments that I have up 23 there. I want to make it easy for the desk. I 6664 1 think we have them in numbers and if you could 2 move at this time amendment that is numbered 6, 3 and I'm going to - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 5 Amendment Number 6. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 7 just bring that out, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Just a 9 second. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm going to 11 waive its reading and move it. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 13 Senator, Senator, just one second. Just one 14 second. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is 16 Amendment Number 6, and it's credit card, credit 17 card disclosure. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Thank 19 you, Senator. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: This requires 21 financial institutions that issue credit cards 22 in this state, whether they're located in the 23 state or not, to disclose the grace period, 6665 1 whether the grace period during which the banks 2 will not charge interest applies if the full 3 amount of the balance is not paid off in that 4 billing cycle because, as you know, cards issued 5 with grace periods nevertheless if you don't pay 6 off the full amounts, the banks will charge you 7 on the entire amount. This is not disclosed. 8 All that does is to say disclose it. 9 What's wrong with that? Is that 10 unfair? Is that going to cripple financial 11 institutions? Is that going to make it difficult 12 for financial institutions to carry on business? 13 Absolutely not, and that, as I just want to 14 emphasize, can be done for national institutions 15 -- we've checked it out; I'll give you the 16 citation -- as well as state-chartered institu 17 tions. I'm going to move that amendment. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 19 Amendment Number 6, Senator Leichter's 20 amendment, all those in favor signify by saying 21 aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 Those opposed nay. 6666 1 (Response of "Nay.") 2 The amendment is defeated. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right, 4 let's try Number 7. This is a minimum credit 5 card disclosure on minimum monthly payment. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 7 Amendment Number 7. We have it here, Senator. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is the 9 minimum balance percentage that must be paid off 10 in each billing cycle. There are some credit 11 card companies that fail to disclose that, and 12 by failing to disclose it, they end up being 13 able to charge over the life of the loan, that's 14 really what we're talking about, a greater 15 amount of interest. 16 Anything wrong in saying that 17 they clearly and explicitly show what that 18 minimum payment should be? I think not. I move 19 the amendment. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Just 21 one second. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is Number 23 7. 6667 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 2 Amendment Number 7, Senator Leichter's - 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator 7 Farley yield to a question? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Would 9 you yield to Senator Gold on the amendment? 10 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll be happy 11 to. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Farley, 13 what's wrong with them showing the minimum 14 balance? 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Pardon me? 16 SENATOR GOLD: What's wrong with 17 the credit card company showing the minimum 18 balance? 19 SENATOR FARLEY: As I understand, 20 when I get my credit card bill, they tell me 21 what my minimum payment would be. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Some of them do, 23 some of them don't. What's wrong with doing 6668 1 it? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: That would 3 affect a minuscule -- I don't know whether it 4 would affect any New York credit cards, in my 5 judgment. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: You've got to 8 realize, and I don't have that percentage, but I 9 would venture to say 90 percent or 95 percent, a 10 disproportionate amount of credit cards are 11 issued outside the state. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, but, 13 Senator, if you will yield to a question. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Farley yields. 17 SENATOR GOLD: No matter what the 18 numbers are, what's wrong with New York having 19 in its law that people make that disclosure? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, going back 21 to what New York did on disclosure laws, I'm 22 told that we passed some of this a few years ago 23 and the Congress and the federal government 6669 1 superseded all our laws on disclosure. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Leichter on the amendment. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: In moving that 7 amendment, Senator Farley, I can assure you, and 8 I will stake my reputation such as it is, that 9 when it comes to matters of disclosure, we were 10 not preempted by the federal government and 11 there is case law which makes it very clear that 12 we are entitled to do this, and you stated to 13 Senator Gold correctly, 80, 90 percent of card 14 companies do this, although I want to make it 15 clear that we're not only talking about saying 16 what the minimum amount is, but what the 17 percentage is, which is important for people to 18 understand. And some banks do it. Why not 19 require all banks to do it? What is wrong with 20 this amendment, Senator Farley? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 22 Senator Leichter's amendment, all those in favor 23 signify by saying aye. 6670 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Those opposed nay. 3 (Response of "Nay." ) 4 The amendment is defeated. 5 Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, all 7 right, let's try Number 8. This is credit card 8 disclosure on total interest to be paid. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: We have 10 it, Senator, Amendment Number 8. 11 Senator Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Number 8 13 provides that a company that issues credit cards 14 must disclose the total amount to be paid in 15 interest over the life of the loan so that, if 16 you pay off the minimum balance, interest is 17 charged at the remaining balance that you are 18 told what your entire interest bill is going to 19 be. 20 Again, disclosure; fairness; so 21 consumers know what it is they're paying in 22 total amount, in interest over the life of the 23 loan. And we can do that. We can have it apply 6671 1 to national banks as well as state-chartered 2 banks. Why should we not give consumers that 3 protection? 4 Mr. President, I move the 5 amendment. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 7 Senator Leichter's amendment, all those in favor 8 signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Those opposed nay. 11 (Response of "Nay.") 12 The amendment is defeated. 13 Senator Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Let's try 15 Number 9. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 17 Leichter's Amendment Number 9. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is 19 banking privacy. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Banking 21 privacy, Senator Leichter's amendment Number 9. 22 Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Amendment 6672 1 Number 9 would prohibit financial institutions 2 from selling, exchanging or disclosing 3 information as to the names of credit card 4 holders or depositors or getting access to 5 Social Security numbers. 6 As you well know, because your 7 mail box is as full as mine with mail, that you 8 receive solicitations from financial 9 institutions, they sell each other the list of 10 their customers. That should be prohibited. 11 That shouldn't be done. What this amendment 12 says that banking institutions should not sell 13 the list of their customers to anyone. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Oh, 15 Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Farley, 17 will you yield to a question? 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Always delighted 19 to yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Farley yields. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Are you his 23 surrogate here, or what gives? 6673 1 SENATOR GOLD: Pardon me? No, 2 Senator Leichter is too good in this area to 3 need me, believe me, but I want to ask you a 4 question, Senator Farley. If I could and it's a 5 little bit off of what Senator Leichter is 6 talking about, but I'm curious about it. 7 The -- a person opens up an 8 account with the bank, and let's say once they 9 open the account, they have a checking account, 10 they have savings, they have, let's say they 11 have a loan, an overdraft privilege, I assume 12 that the customer has a file. Are those files 13 confidential at all, Senator Farley? 14 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm not a 15 banker; I'm a law professor. I never worked in 16 a bank in my life. I've never been into their 17 files. 18 SENATOR GOLD: No, but, Professor 19 Farley, if you will yield to a question. What 20 I'm saying is, based upon your knowledge, are 21 those files that the banks maintain, is there 22 any degree of privacy in the file? 23 SENATOR FARLEY: I don't think 6674 1 that the average guy off the street can go in 2 and look in the bank's files. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if you will 4 yield to a question, Senator. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Are your files 6 confidential? 7 SENATOR GOLD: Pardon me? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Are your files 9 confidential? 10 SENATOR GOLD: My law files? 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Your banking 12 files. 13 SENATOR GOLD: That's the point 14 I'm getting at. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Gold, Senator Farley, please address your 17 remarks through the Chair. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Farley 19 yield again? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 22 what I was getting at is this bill deals with 23 names, addresses, Social Security numbers, but I 6675 1 want to go past that for a minute, but I'm 2 saying supposing someone knows the name "Hugh 3 Farley" and they go to your bank, and let's say 4 they know the banker. The banker is Charlie, 5 and Mike comes over to Charlie, and says, "You 6 got a depositor by the name of Hugh Farley and 7 you got a file on him. I'd like to see what's 8 in the file." Is there any confidentiality or 9 can the bank officer show that file to anybody 10 without violating any laws? 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, I -- I 12 would think -- again, you're asking me a 13 question that you don't know the answer to 14 and - 15 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I don't ask 16 questions I don't know the answers to. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: No, but I would 18 -- I would presume that Charlie would be in a 19 lot of trouble if he showed that file to 20 somebody that came in off the street, even if it 21 was his close friend. 22 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank 23 you, Senator. On the amendment. 6676 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Gold, on the amendment. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Just one of those 4 rare opportunities. 5 Senator Farley, I think you are, 6 unfortunately, dead wrong and it's one of the 7 things, Senator Leichter, that you got it out of 8 my mind because of this privacy word, and you're 9 just the person to take care of this. 10 I know of a situation, Senator 11 Farley, where an individual worked for a bank, 12 transferred to another bank. There was a 13 lawsuit involving the second bank by an 14 individual who had been harmed by the bank and 15 he called up his old bank and they sent him a 16 total transcript of this private file of a 17 depositor, and it was introduced into a court 18 proceeding, and the answer was that there was 19 nothing anybody could do about it because it 20 wasn't confidential. 21 Now, the information in there 22 wasn't libelous; it wasn't this or it wasn't 23 that. It was confidential, so the depositor 6677 1 thought and, Senator, if you know what these 2 banks do behind the backs of their own 3 depositors, you would be shocked. What if I 4 tell you that within the last month I know of 5 one situation where a bank who had wrong - 6 which had wrongfully withheld its depositors' 7 money and had to be sued by the depositor, 8 agreed in a lawsuit to settle a lawsuit by 9 releasing the money of the depositor but only 10 did that after another bank secured a lien 11 against that fund. 12 I mean what the banks do in the 13 back rooms could make you throw up and, when we 14 talk about bank privacy, Senator Leichter, I can 15 congratulate you but let me tell you a New York 16 state bank, you're only the tip of the iceberg 17 and I support your amendment totally. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Move the 21 amendment. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 23 Senator Leichter's amendment, all those in favor 6678 1 signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Those opposed nay. 4 (Response of "Nay." ) 5 The amendment is defeated. 6 Senator Tully. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Would there be an 8 opportunity to explain my vote on that 9 particular amendment? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Tully, to explain your vote. 12 SENATOR TULLY: My vote is in the 13 negative, Mr. President, because while I think 14 Senator Farley is wrong, Senator Gold is wrong 15 as well, and that's based upon the Bank Secrecy 16 Act and FDIC regulations and in no case would 17 that information be available as described by 18 Senator Gold except in the case of an errant 19 employee or someone who did something that was 20 inopportune and wrong, and now that he has that 21 information, if he knows who was involved in the 22 case, he should go and seek appeal and utilize 23 that information, and I won't even charge a 6679 1 forwarding fee. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Thank 3 you. 4 Senator Gold to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 6 much. 7 Senator Tully, you know what I 8 say about you behind your back. I respect you 9 very much. Unfortunately, Senator, the 10 difference between this room and the real world 11 is the difference between here and Mars, and the 12 banks involved which I'd rather not name, 13 Citibank and Marine Midland, this was all made 14 known out in the open, and I want you to know 15 even made known to the New York State Banking 16 Department which was about as much impressed by 17 it as your side of the aisle is with the story. 18 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, if 19 I can further explain it and state to Senator 20 Gold that I'm sure he knows since he's 21 researched this so well, that if both parties 22 have a financial interest in the situation that 23 that is an exception to the law as it exists. I 6680 1 know he knows that, and he certainly wouldn't 2 have forgotten that when he said that Senator 3 Farley was incorrect. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Leichter, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 to explain my vote. 8 Let me just point out to Senator 9 Tully and to Senator Gold and all the colleagues 10 that irrespective of that, this particular 11 issue, that this amendment is much broader, 12 Senator, and prohibits the sale of customer 13 lists, which is certainly not covered by the 14 Secrecy Act, and which we know occurs all the 15 time which I think should not occur, which leads 16 to fraud, and the amendment addresses that, and 17 I think that's an important prohibition that we 18 should have in the law. 19 Could we have the results on the 20 amendment? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 22 amendment is still defeated, Senator. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Let's 6681 1 take Number 12. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Leichter's Amendment Number 12. Hold on just a 4 second. Credit card rate increases, Number 12, 5 is that correct? 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, right. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Leichter, on the amendment. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: This amendment 10 would prohibit credit card issuers from applying 11 rate or fee increases to balances in existence 12 before rate increases. 13 Now, this one, Senator Farley, I 14 would agree you could probably only apply to 15 state-chartered institutions, but we know that 16 the issuers of credit cards change their 17 interest rates, will jack up the interest rates 18 and will apply it to balances that were created 19 or incurred when the interest rate was at a 20 different level. 21 That's just unfair. You can't 22 justify by saying, Oh, well, I don't want to 23 scare these banks out of the state. Senator, 6682 1 there needs to be some fairness. We have an 2 obligation to protect the consumers from an 3 over-reaching practice. This is an over 4 reaching practice. We can't negate our 5 obligation or shed our obligation by saying, Oh, 6 well, you know, there's national banks and they 7 can still do it, and so on, because I think 8 that, if we impose this requirement on 9 state-chartered banks that -- and 10 state-chartered banks, by doing this, would, if 11 anything, gain customers. 12 I think we would force -- we 13 would shame the national banks into doing - 14 into discontinuing a practice which is really so 15 outrageous and so unfair. 16 So, Mr. President, I'd like to 17 move Amendment Number 12. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 20 Farley, on the amendment. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: Just a point of 22 clarification. Now, I don't want you to be 23 confused on that, Senator Leichter. That would 6683 1 apply to just the state-chartered banks. It 2 would apply to national banks, only -- excuse 3 me, only people that have their operations 4 within this state. You see a state-chartered 5 bank can have it out of state which they're 6 inclined to do. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: So you're 9 talking about a very few endangered species that 10 are left here. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 14 Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm concerned 16 about the endangered consumer and don't do the 17 work of the financial institution, don't carry 18 their codes and say, Well, I'm doing it really 19 because I'm trying to preserve jobs in this 20 state. 21 You're hurting the consumers. 22 You're hurting the economy of the state when you 23 do this. Move the amendment, Mr. President. 6684 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Leichter -- on Senator Leichter's amendment. 3 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Those opposed, nay. 6 (Response of "Nay." ) 7 The amendment is defeated. 8 Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, we'll do 10 Number 4 now. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 12 Leichter's Amendment Number 4, just one second. 13 Branch bank closings, Number 4. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Leichter, on the amendment. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: This would 18 permit the Superintendent of Banks to delay 19 branch closings for 120 days upon finding that 20 significant reduction in banking services to the 21 community would result. 22 We have a very serious problem in 23 many areas of this state in the unavailability 6685 1 of banking services. That hurts not only senior 2 citizens and people who live there who need to 3 cash their checks or get a money order, but it 4 hurts small businesses. When a branch closes, 5 there's no banking services left in that 6 community. That's a signal that that's a 7 neighborhood that's under decline. It's a very 8 serious problem. 9 The Superintendent has 10 acknowledged that the problem exists but 11 unfortunately, very little has been done. This 12 bill at least will put 120 days hold so that the 13 community, the Superintendent, others, can work 14 to try to create alternative financial 15 institutional services for a community. 16 It's vitally important; it needs 17 to be done; it has to be addressed by us. Mr. 18 President, I move that amendment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 20 Senator Leichter's Amendment Number 4. 21 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On the 6686 1 amendment, Senator Markowitz. 2 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: May I ask you 3 a question, Senator? 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Leichter yields. 7 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: On the 8 question, would federally chartered banks be 9 impacted by your amendment or can we actually - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think branch 11 closings, and I'm not 100 percent certain, but I 12 think branch closings are matters where the 13 state, I believe, can act and where the state 14 can say to a branch, that it must remain open 15 for a certain period of time. 16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: On the 17 amendment. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's my 19 understanding. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Markowitz, on the amendment. 22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Just to add, 23 Senator Farley, if I can add not a question to 6687 1 you, but my comments to you. 2 I know how concerned you are with 3 the banking industry in New York State, and I 4 certainly share at least the point that I want 5 to see them successful as possible because that 6 helps business in New York. It helps 7 employment, it helps taxes, and for many other 8 reasons. 9 However, on this issue, the 10 amendment of bank closings, branch closings, you 11 should be aware, and I'm sure you know that 12 through the mergers of various banks in the 13 state, there's not a question that significant 14 numbers of bank branches have closed. If you 15 take a look at where they've closed the 16 branches, there's no question that they have not 17 closed them in areas of high economic activity 18 but rather in areas that they deem to be less 19 profitable, which means areas that are lower 20 income which ordinarily means among the lowest 21 income people in our society, which 22 unfortunately seem to fall on African-American, 23 Caribbean-American, Latino communities of New 6688 1 York, and I think that there's something wrong, 2 totally wrong. 3 While banks are not an 4 institution who are in the social service 5 business, nonetheless they are given a charter 6 by our state and, in fact, the federal 7 government, if they're a federal chartered bank 8 and they have certain obligations. 9 Closing branches in areas of less 10 profitability, I think, is wrong and I would 11 hope that Franz, and I know that the chances of 12 this amendment passing at this moment is remote, 13 but certainly as the chairman of Banking, no 14 matter how close you feel to the industry, and 15 advocate their interests, it seems to me that 16 this is not an unreasonable request, that they 17 have some responsibility in keeping branches 18 open even in areas that may be less profit 19 able. So that was my comments on the 20 amendment. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6689 1 Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may just 3 briefly comment on Senator Markowitz' very 4 pertinent statement. 5 Senator, not only are minorities 6 disproportionately affected, but I want to point 7 out to you that it is not only in areas of 8 declining economic activity that the banks will 9 close branches. I made a study which was 10 released some years ago and received some 11 attention, which showed that in Long Island they 12 closed branches in communities that became more 13 predominantly black even though the mean income 14 in those communities was greater than in 15 neighboring white communities where the banks 16 did not close their branches. 17 So there is no question that the 18 banks are acting on a perception. They see a 19 black community, Hispanic community. They say, 20 This community cannot support a financial 21 institution and we will close the branch and 22 they will close branches that are profitable. 23 There was an instance in Far Rockaway at our - 6690 1 one of our colleagues was very much involved in 2 with Chemical Bank, I believe was Chemical Bank 3 said they were going to close a branch, and it 4 was shown that that branch was a profitable 5 branch, and by making certain changes in their 6 operations to be more receptive to the needs of 7 that community, it became a very remunerative 8 branch for the bank because the bank was 9 convinced to keep it open. 10 So there was a social problem 11 here and a problem that, unfortunately, the 12 banks have created not by being able to show, 13 Hey, we need to do this for financial reasons, 14 most often they've done it for the wrong social 15 reasons, and while you're right, banks are 16 profit-making institutions, but we have a 17 certain interest in seeing how financial 18 institutions work, they're given a charter which 19 says that they have to serve the public and the 20 public means the entire public. 21 I'm just going to -- I'm sorry, 22 may we move that amendment, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 6691 1 Senator Leichter's amendment, would - 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Yeah, 4 Senator Gold. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 6 Senator Farley yield to just one question? 7 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On the 9 amendment. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Professor, what's 11 wrong with the amendment? 12 SENATOR FARLEY: What's wrong 13 with the amendment? 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, yeah, giving 15 people an opportunity, giving the Department a 16 chance to take a look at it. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: All amendments 18 are well intended; I certainly wouldn't speak 19 ill, nor did I speak ill of Senator Leichter's 20 amendment, but we'll have the vote on it. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will 22 Senator Farley yield to a question? 23 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. The major 6692 1 -- one of the major things that's wrong with 2 this amendment is, should this amendment pass, 3 this bill would have to be here for three days 4 before it would be live again. 5 SENATOR GOLD: No, that's not 6 so. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: I just say - 8 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sure Senator 9 Tully will rise to your defense, but that's not 10 true. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: I think if this 12 bill is amended by this amendment, it becomes - 13 I'd have to ask the desk -- it requires three 14 more days. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: It 16 becomes a different bill then. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: That's Friday, 18 Saturday, Sunday, Monday. I don't want to be 19 here Monday. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, oh, Mr. 21 President. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: I just mention 23 that's one thing that's wrong with it. 6693 1 SENATOR GOLD: I know Mr. Tully 2 is going to tell me I'm wrong, but Senator 3 Farley, my God, you've been here long enough, if 4 this bill gets amended, it gets reprinted, it 5 gets a message from the Governor and at 5:00 6 o'clock we pass it. Who's kidding who? 7 You remember what we got last 8 night? I've never seen messages of necessity 9 before. Could I ask the desk to show Senator 10 Farley a message of necessity? I know he'll 11 remember what they look like. 12 Come on, Senator Farley, I'm 13 asking you, I'm asking you gentlemen and 14 gentlemen, what is wrong with the concept of 15 permitting the Superintendent to take a look at 16 this situation before it occurs? What's wrong? 17 Some bank's going to get mad at the Republican 18 Party if we -- if we bring a little sensibility 19 into this bill? Is that what it's about? But 20 please don't tell me about this bill, we don't 21 have enough days. 22 First of all, I don't want to 23 break everybody's heart. Yes, I do want to 6694 1 break everybody's heart. I have people coming 2 over Sunday, we're telling them not to come. 3 Because my understanding is, gentlemen, we're 4 here for Sunday, Monday and nobody wants to come 5 back next week, we're here for the duration. So 6 you'll get your bill even if you amend it; today 7 is Thursday. 8 But who's kidding who? There are 9 bills that are flying out of Rules. You know 10 what's happening. They're going to have 11 introductory dates of July 1st, July 2nd and you 12 say why would anybody introduce a bill on July 13 2nd by the time you print it because they're all 14 going to have messages, Senator Farley, and if 15 this bill is a good bill and it's gotten more 16 attractions because of some of Senator 17 Leichter's amendments, that's going to encourage 18 this Governor who I know wants to take care of 19 the consumers of this state, to give you that 20 message. 21 So if you have a problem with the 22 concept, I want to hear about it. I don't want 23 to hear about three days, because there isn't 6695 1 one person in this room who believes that any 2 bill is stopped in the final hours of the 3 legislative session because of printing 4 problems. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just in 10 addition, Senator Farley, this is a worthwhile 11 concept and you said it is; I don't think we can 12 tell the people of this state, Well, we want to 13 go home and, therefore, we're not going to do 14 it. 15 This is an important matter, an 16 important issue, and it needs to be addressed. 17 Whether we do it by a message, whether we do it 18 by staying here, it needs to be done. 19 I move the amendment, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 22 Senator Leichter's amendment, on Senator 23 Leichter's amendments, all those in favor 6696 1 signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Those opposed nay. 4 (Response of "Nay." ) 5 Amendment is defeated, Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 8 number one, you saved the best for last. This 9 is life line banking, so if you would call up 10 that amendment, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: We - 12 Senator Leichter, we've got a slight problem 13 here. We can't find Number 1. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, here's a 15 copy. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: What's 17 the title of this amendment, Senator? 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Life line 19 banking. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Life 21 line banking. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Mr. 23 President, just to save time. 6697 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Leichter, go ahead. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me just 4 talk about it. If you can't locate it, you do 5 have it up there? O.K. If you can't locate it, I 6 think the way the vote is going, I don't think 7 it's that important that we actually have a vote 8 on it, but I think it is important that we do 9 discuss and are aware of what life line banking 10 is. 11 It's based on a bill that 12 Assemblyman Farrell, the Chair of the Assembly 13 Banking Committee, has introduced together with 14 our good colleague, Senator Babbush. It 15 provides that you can have a minimal banking 16 account, just as we have a minimal phone service 17 that we provide for senior citizens with a 18 limited number of checks up to ten checks. You 19 cannot have more than $2,000. You'd have to 20 have at least $25 in the account, and the 21 significance and the importance of that is that 22 particularly for senior citizens, they cannot 23 afford banking. 6698 1 Banks require greater and greater 2 minimum balances, charge more and more for 3 checks. We're having many, many people who are 4 being priced out of banking. This is an 5 important service to provide. It's not 6 unreasonable to ask of banks. Any bill that 7 makes deregulation permanent, that gives banks 8 that enormous privilege that we've given them to 9 continue that enormous spread between the 10 interest rates that they charge and the cost of 11 money, at the very least, we ought to make sure 12 that the public is protected to the extent of 13 providing for life line banking. 14 So, Senator Farley, let me just 15 say you've given us a bare bone bill which does 16 nothing for the consumers and has really 17 everything for the financial institutions. I 18 tried to point out numerous things that we can 19 do that they're not outrageous, they're not 20 immoral. They would not do economic harm. 21 On the contrary, they would be 22 good for the economy of this state. You've 23 talked about jobs. These are provisions that 6699 1 will help the economy of the state and there's 2 others that I haven't brought up, because I 3 don't want to take more time, which would 4 require banks to disclose what small business 5 loans they're making so we would know. Just as 6 we try to find out where the banks are red 7 lining in mortgages, we ought to find out are 8 they making small business loans to the 9 communities that they serve. 10 These are important matters; they 11 should be in a bill, Senator Farley. You have 12 the responsibility seeing that the consumer gets 13 some benefit out of permanentizing deregulation 14 in this state, and I hope that before this 15 session ends, whenever that is, that we're going 16 to see some of these provisions in a bill. 17 In the meantime, Senator Farley, 18 I think that your bill should get a nay vote. 19 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Markowitz, on the bill. 23 6700 1 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes, I have a 2 question on this amendment of Senator Farley if 3 I may. Senator, may I ask you a question on 4 this. On the life line issue that Senator 5 Leichter brings forward, didn't you serve many 6 years as the chairman of the Senate Committee on 7 Aging? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: I did, and I had 9 the distinction of having Senator Markowitz as 10 my ranking person. 11 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes, thank 12 you. Thank you. I was proud to be your ranking 13 member. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me just 15 address this. Even though it's going to hurt 16 me, but I'm going to vote against this 17 amendment. This house has nothing against life 18 line. We supported -- as a matter of fact, 19 Assemblyman Farrell has got Calendar 420 with 20 life line in it, geographic restrictions, and - 21 what else? -- small business disclosure. If he 22 sends that over, we'll pass it in a minute. 23 Pass it in a minute. It's got permanency in it, 6701 1 too. But we have no quarrel with it. It's all 2 part of the negotiations. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Markowitz. 5 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I wanted to 6 complete what I was saying. I know that Senator 7 Farley has certainly shown his interest in 8 advancing the cause of the elderly, and I just 9 want to advance, if I may, that many seniors 10 during the course of my experiences with them 11 have indicated over and over again of their 12 inability to be able to afford banking 13 services. They live on SSI. Not every senior 14 resides in a single-family home with an acre or 15 two of land, but many live day to day, month to 16 month on their Social Security and SSI checks, 17 maybe a very small pension or maybe a son or a 18 daughter helping them out a bit, and it seems to 19 me that the banks have an obligation especially 20 to this segment of the population to provide the 21 kind of basic services. 22 One other thing, Senator 23 Leichter, this is something I discussed with you 6702 1 previously, on the question of interest rates on 2 credit cards, there is no question that it's 3 encouraging that there is greater competition 4 today. Any intelligent consumer, Senator, any 5 intelligent consumer that wants to get a credit 6 card at lower interest rates can get a credit 7 card for lower interest rates. 8 To me, I'm happy about the fact 9 that there is a competitive atmosphere today in 10 the credit card field. It's true there is 11 competition. Thank God, the banks are competing 12 with each other, and the consumer really in the 13 last year or two has an ability now to find 14 cheaper credit card companies. And it's true. 15 If they want to make the effort -- if they want 16 to make the effort, it's happening. It really 17 is happening. 18 But on life line, I hope that you 19 will join with me, Senator -- you will join with 20 me, and I would like you to accept this 21 amendment. Why don't we break right now. You 22 could say, yes, this one I accept. 23 So I will sit down and I'm going 6703 1 to wait to hear your response. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Leichter, do you want to pursue that amendment? 4 We have recovered the amendments. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Thank 6 you, Mr. President. In that event, I will move 7 the amendment. I have already explained it. 8 Let me also thank the desk. I know it's not 9 easy to keep track of so many amendments. You 10 did a wonderful job, and I appreciate it and 11 thank you. 12 And I now move the amendment on 13 life line banking. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On 15 Senator Leichter's final amendment. All those 16 in favor, say aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 All those opposed, nay. 19 (Response of "Nay.") 20 The nays have it. The amendment 21 is defeated. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 6704 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato 6 to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 8 I rise -- I heartily concur with the amendments 9 that Senator Leichter brought forth here, but I 10 also want to assure my colleagues as the ranking 11 member on Banking that I have the assurances of 12 Assemblyman Farrell that current negotiations 13 are taking place that will include notification 14 to provide life line banking, no geographic 15 discrimination, small business loan fund, small 16 business loan disclosure, an '800' number for 17 interest rates on credit cards, and I have been 18 assured that these -- if none of these things 19 are going to be included in the current bill, 20 it's not going to go anywhere. 21 So I'm going to vote for the 22 current bill with the assurances that we will 23 see the light of day on these other amendments 6705 1 that you brought forth today. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Onorato in the affirmative. 4 This is on the bill, yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 174 are Senators 7 Connor, Espada, Leichter, Mendez, and Smith. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Farley, why do you rise? Do you want to explain 10 your vote, Senator? 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Just explain my 12 vote. Let me congratulate Senator Leichter on, 13 I think, a record amount of amendments that I 14 have seen -- fourteen. But let me assure my 15 colleagues this is a terribly important issue, 16 and what Senator Onorato has said is so true. 17 We've still got time on this one. We're still 18 working together. Assemblyman Farrell has 19 cooperated very, very well. We're trying to put 20 this together. I think that we will. I 21 appreciate the support of all my colleagues on 22 this bill. 23 I vote aye. 6706 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Farley in the affirmative. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 5. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we go back 8 to regular order. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 10 Present. We'll proceed with regular order. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 12 Calendar Number 59, by Senator Hannon, Senate 13 Bill Number 279B. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 15 temporarily. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 17 that bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 102, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 2354B. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 21 that bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 591, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 4426A, 6707 1 Agriculture and Markets Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 3 the last section. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 5 second. Last section. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the 7 bill? 8 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 591, 10 Senator Kuhl. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 21 bill is passed. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Go back to 59. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6708 1 59, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 279B, 2 authorize payment in lieu of taxes by the county 3 of Nassau. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 6 Explanation requested by Senator Gold. 7 Senator Hannon. 8 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 9 President. In one of the school districts 10 within my district, there is presently a large 11 municipal hospital which is a teaching facility 12 for physicians which provides residential 13 apartments to residents, interns and teachers at 14 the teaching facility. This would allow the 15 county within which it's located and which owns 16 the medical facility to pay monies to the school 17 district in regard to what would be the tuition 18 to cover the cost of educating the children of 19 those physicians. 20 This bill has passed in the 21 Senate slightly different variation in 1990, 22 1991 and 1992. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6709 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 3 question? 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 6 Hannon yields. 7 SENATOR GOLD: It has only passed 8 the one house, is that it, and not both houses? 9 SENATOR HANNON: Actually in 10 different versions -- and it's only been very 11 slightly different versions -- it has passed one 12 or two times in the past. This version as it is 13 here is permissive instead of mandatory on the 14 part of the county and is a version I am told 15 that is acceptable to the Assembly by the 16 Majority Assemblyperson who is handling it in 17 the Assembly. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 23 the roll. 6710 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 900, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number 7 3919C, an act to amend Chapter 812 of the Laws 8 of 1983, amending the Navigation Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Marchi, explanation requested by Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. Mr. 13 President, this extends until June 30, 1995, the 14 authority of the board of commissioners to 15 continue in their present role as advisors to 16 the Legislature, to the Governor, on pilotage 17 matters, their role in establishing licensure, 18 bonding and regulation and disciplining of 19 pilots. 20 It also provides for changing the 21 present methods of appointment to the board of 22 commissioners. Now, it's three members by the 23 Chamber of Commerce and Industry in New York. 6711 1 They recommend three. Two are recommended by 2 the marine insurance business companies, and one 3 member is appointed by the Governor. 4 That is not changed, but there is 5 an added requirement that four members of the 6 board have experience as a licensed deck officer 7 in the United States Merchant Marine or an 8 unrestricted line officer in the United States 9 Naval Service or a commissioned officer in the 10 United States Coast Guard service and commanded 11 a navigation watch on an ocean-going vessel. 12 There are four presently on the 13 board who have that experience. The remaining 14 two commissioners shall have a minimum of five 15 years experience in the maritime industry. 16 There are two members that are presently on the 17 board and they would remain on the board and if 18 a vacancy occurs, if it's one of the two that 19 are one of the two exceptions, experience in the 20 maritime industry would qualify them. 21 Some objection to the prior 22 arrangement, the experience as a watch officer 23 on an ocean-going vessel made it almost 6712 1 impossible, virtually impossible in present 2 circumstances to have a woman serve on the board 3 of commissioners, and there is now a woman 4 member on that board, and she would remain, and 5 she has experience in the -- in the -- so this 6 would be -- this would, in effect, safeguard 7 that that requirement would be projected forward 8 and, at the same time, we would specify 9 something that exists presently. Four of those 10 six members have that experience as licensed - 11 as officers with requisite experience and 12 command at sea. 13 I might add that I have that 14 experience myself. I would qualify here except 15 I am too old, I guess, and I have no intention 16 of doing it, but it's important that we continue 17 them. Actually, they lose their voice unless we 18 project the role that they've been exercising 19 for some 200 years in this state unless we 20 extend the present chapter of the Laws of 1983 21 which was the last time we addressed this issue. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 23 the last section. 6713 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 5 yield to a question? 6 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Marchi will yield. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, this is 10 one of those bills that sunsets, and I know, 11 Senator, that whereas people have been walking 12 in and out of the chamber, you are one of those 13 loyal members who listens to debates and stays 14 with us. And you recall Senator Farley saying a 15 sunset is like a gun to the head. Senator, is 16 there a reason why we are merely extending this 17 gun to the head rather than permanentizing 18 this? 19 SENATOR MARCHI: Well, to be 20 perfectly frank, there is still considerable 21 dialogue going on on the way this board of 22 commissioners is to be constituted. I would 23 have no objection to making it permanent, but in 6714 1 deference to those who would like to see more 2 experience with it in a role and function that 3 may undergo some redefinition -- this is an old 4 law. I mean we give the responsibility of the 5 appointment of half of these people to this 6 Chamber of Commerce and Industry. I don't know 7 whether that is appropriate any more really, but 8 it has going for it that it has served us well, 9 and it gives us another period. 10 We are making some marked changes 11 here. These are the first changes that we've 12 had in the law, really, any substantive changes 13 since the inception of the system. So I feel 14 that we're not taking any great risks here. And 15 if we wish to permanentize it, we're not 16 precluded from doing this in the future. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, if 20 I could ask just one more question. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Marchi, 23 you said that there is some discussion still 6715 1 going on. It is your bill, not the Assembly 2 bill in front of us; is that correct? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, is this 5 an agreed to bill, or do I read from your 6 remarks - 7 SENATOR MARCHI: They have a 8 companion bill. 9 SENATOR GOLD: No, I know they 10 do, but what I'm saying is that we're passing 11 your bill. Did I read in your remarks that 12 there are still discussions going on, and there 13 might be -- and this is not an agreed bill? 14 SENATOR MARCHI: No, I -- no, 15 this is an agreed bill. 16 SENATOR GOLD: It is an agreed 17 bill. 18 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 19 SENATOR GOLD: But there is no 20 agreement on making it permanent. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: But I'm not 22 going to say that there aren't people thinking 23 about redefining function and composition in the 6716 1 future, but this is an agreed bill. Mrs. 2 Connelly is my co-sponsor in the Assembly, and 3 she will carry the bill and she is committed to 4 assisting in its enactment. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 950, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4872, 17 an act in relation to the duration of the 18 eligible list for police officer in the county 19 of Nassau. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Home 22 rule message is at the desk. 23 Explanation requested by Senator 6717 1 Gold. Senator Hannon. 2 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation 3 delays the expiration of the eligible list for 4 hiring village police officers in Nassau 5 County. Current list expired - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Sorry, Senator. 7 It's not your fault. 8 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation 9 delays the expiration of an eligible list for 10 hiring village police officers in Nassau 11 County. The current list expired in early May 12 of this year, but no examination is further 13 scheduled for this year. So it's necessary in 14 order that the villages might have a list to 15 hire from to extend the eligibility of this 16 list. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: (There was no 20 reply. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6718 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 951, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 10 4963A. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have one 12 day on this, please. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 15 for the day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 17 bill is laid aside for one day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1158, by member of the Assembly Connelly, 20 Assembly Bill Number 2396A, Environmental 21 Conservation Law. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 6719 1 that bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1217, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 4 4972, making an appropriation in the Department 5 of Transportation. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Hannon, Senator Gold requests an explanation. 9 SENATOR HANNON: This bill 10 authorizes the construction of noise abatement 11 structures along Route 135 in the town of Oyster 12 Bay. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 14 the last section. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 20 Hannon yield to a question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Hannon yield? 23 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 6720 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, this 2 doesn't involve, the Oyster Bay noise abatement 3 -- in my district we have several areas along 4 Route 490 which need noise abatement. My 5 question is, just generally, do you know what 6 the status of noise abatement funds in the state 7 of New York and whether there are funds 8 available; and, if so, where they can be located 9 so that I could seek similar treatment for the 10 city of Rochester? 11 SENATOR HANNON: No. I don't 12 know. You asked me do I know, and I don't. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 6721 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1236, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 3 5866A, create a motor carrier advisory council. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1250, by Senator Hannon. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 18 that bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 21 Bill Number 5853A, an act to amend the General 22 Municipal Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 6722 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 2 Explanation requested. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 4 temporarily. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 6 that bill aside temporarily. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1262, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 9 5900, an act to amend the Environmental 10 Conservation Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Johnson, explanation requested by Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 16 that bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1313, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 5253A, 19 an act to amend the Real Property Law. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Gold requests an explanation from Senator Daly. 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 6723 1 this bill contains technical amendments to the 2 real estate disclosure bill that we passed only 3 two years ago. It corrects certain technical 4 errors. It clarifies the law with respect to 5 broker's agents and amends the text of the 6 disclosure form to make reference to rental 7 transactions. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 9 yield to a question? 10 SENATOR DALY: Certainly. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 12 Daly yields. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, there is 14 a sunset in the law today, and you are 15 suggesting we make it permanent rather than 16 extend it? 17 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Any reason why 19 this couldn't be one of our good old extender 20 bills? I mean is this the kind of thing Abe 21 Lincoln would make permanent? 22 SENATOR DALY: (Laughter.) Well, 23 Senator, we feel that you are having fun enough 6724 1 with the expiration dates and the expiration 2 bills that we have to deal with right now. We 3 don't want to add to that fun. 4 Frankly, Senator, we're being 5 rather nasty in doing this. 6 SENATOR GOLD: You're what? 7 SENATOR DALY: Being rather 8 nasty. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Aw, you can say 10 that, because when you take your glasses off, 11 you can still see. I can't see with my glasses 12 off. 13 Last section. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 6725 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1338, by Senator Hannon. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1364, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 8 2623A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 10 yield to a question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 12 Skelos yields. 13 Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in the 15 Rules Committee meeting, and you know the way 16 the Rules Committee meeting works -- you know, 17 you get bills and you are supposed to absorb the 18 knowledge through your fingers. You don't have 19 a chance to read them too much. But one of the 20 counsels said something which seemed to lead us 21 to believe that in some way income tax reports 22 would be made available to the title companies 23 under this bill. Now, is that a proper 6726 1 construction? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: No, I don't 3 believe -- I think that's stretching it a bit. 4 This is just to certify title and to make sure 5 estate tax returns have been paid. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, 7 that's what I'm trying to get at. I don't want 8 to oppose something if the counsels did not 9 explain it properly. We're dealing with secrecy 10 requirements, et cetera, et cetera. What 11 exactly does get opened up and available to the 12 title people under your bill? 13 SENATOR SKELOS: The estate tax 14 returns. 15 SENATOR GOLD: The estate tax 16 returns. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: (Nodding. ) 18 SENATOR GOLD: And just so I 19 understand it, what is the purpose of making 20 that return available? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Why to make it 22 available for inspection? 23 SENATOR GOLD: To the title 6727 1 company, yes. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: To certify 3 title. As they transfer a property, to make 4 sure all estate taxes have been paid. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if 6 you will yield to a question? 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR GOLD: We have been 11 transferring title in this state for hundreds of 12 years without this being a problem. What is the 13 problem? 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Apparently the 15 laws were changed in 1990. 16 SENATOR GOLD: The what, sir? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Chapter 190 of 18 the Laws of 1990 apparently added some secrecy 19 requirements, and the bar association of the 20 state of New York, which has recommended this 21 legislation, has found a problem with attorneys 22 and abstracters going in and being able to look 23 at an estate tax return as they could in the 6728 1 past as you rightfully pointed out in order to 2 certify title. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the 4 Senator will yield to a question? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 6 SENATOR GOLD: I certainly 7 respect the bar association, and I don't want to 8 be difficult, but something -- something is 9 eluding me. The only way you get involved with 10 a title company, I assume, is if there is a sale 11 between either two people of the estate and 12 someone; and, Senator, it seems to me that the 13 parties involved in these situations cooperate 14 fully with their title companies and they 15 provide documents back and forth to the title 16 company, and I can understand where, if I was 17 buying a piece of property, I would certainly 18 not want to buy it if there was a lien or a tax 19 lien. But why would that not be handled in the 20 normal course by somebody producing the 21 document? In other words, if they don't produce 22 the document, the title company won't certify, 23 there is no sale, and the seller could be in 6729 1 default. I don't understand why we are opening 2 up through another avenue tax returns whether 3 they be estate returns or any other returns. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Gold, I 5 do not actively practice law, so I'm not in the 6 real estate aspect of the practice of law; 7 however, the bar association has indicated to 8 our office that there is a problem with certain 9 secrecy requirements that were passed in Chapter 10 190 of the Laws of 1990 that I mentioned to you, 11 and there is a problem with getting certified 12 title without their ability to directly inspect 13 the estate, that the estate taxes have been 14 paid. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Will you yield to 16 one last question? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Skelos yields. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, an estate 21 tax return is a document that's prepared by the 22 estate or by someone and is or is not filed in a 23 timely manner. If I were closing a piece of 6730 1 property for you as my client, I don't think I 2 would give one figure about a tax return. I 3 would want a document from the state Department 4 of Taxation and Finance telling me that the 5 taxes are paid and that there is no lien on the 6 property. 7 I don't understand why this bill 8 is necessary to show somebody a tax return. 9 What the person is entitled to and certainly I 10 would insist if I were your lawyer, at the 11 exaggerated fees I charge, that I got 12 certification from the Tax Department so that 13 you could go to sleep at night. 14 So I don't understand it. I mean 15 if I'm missing something, I don't want to be 16 obstreperous, but I don't understand how this 17 bill solves any particular problem, and why 18 we're opening up any kind of a tax return. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm just stating 20 to you that apparently it has arisen as a 21 problem with the people that actively practice 22 law in this type of area with abstracters, with 23 people that do title searches, and the Bar 6731 1 Association of the state of New York has asked 2 me to introduce this legislation which they feel 3 would rectify their situation. That's my answer. 4 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 5 Senator, will you do me one favor. I raised the 6 issues in Rules, and I was hoping that it was 7 something that would have been discussed with 8 you. I don't want to oppose it. I really want 9 to understand it. Could we lay it aside 10 temporarily? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Absolutely. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Maybe just let's 13 find out why it's necessary. If it's necessary, 14 I don't have the slightest problem doing it. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Lay it 16 aside. That's a fair request. 17 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Thank 18 you. I appreciate your courtesy. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 20 bill is laid aside temporarily by the sponsor. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1371. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 6732 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1398, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 5 5576A. 6 SENATOR PATAKI: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Pataki lays the bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1391, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5886A, 11 Workers' Compensation Law. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay it 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1409, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1196A, 17 establish a temporary state commission on real 18 property taxation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 20 Explanation requested. Senator Levy. 21 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Gold, as 22 I'm sure you recall, I think you and I - 23 SENATOR GOLD: Will you yield to 6733 1 one question? 2 SENATOR LEVY: Sure, certainly. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Levy yields. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Is this bill 6 amended from last year's bill? 7 SENATOR LEVY: No, the same bill 8 as last year. Probably just a date change. 9 SENATOR GOLD: And one last 10 question. Under the bill that's before us the 11 two Minority Leaders do have appointments? 12 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 6734 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1413, by member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly 3 Bill Number 6859, Executive Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1418, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 16 5072B, Environmental Conservation Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Oh, I'm 21 sorry. Explanation requested? 22 SENATOR GOLD: We ask for an 23 explanation, and I would like the opportunity to 6735 1 get one of my members. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Levy's 6 bill that just passed. Can I ask that we 7 reconsider the vote by which that bill passed? 8 SENATOR GOLD: 1409. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: 1409. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 11 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 12 (The Secretary called the roll on 13 reconsideration. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 16 bill is before the house. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside, 18 please. 19 SENATOR LEVY: No, no. At this 20 point in the session, I want to take the bill 21 up. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no, I - 23 that's fine. 6736 1 SENATOR GOLD: I think we're on a 2 bill. So whatever the Majority Leader wants to 3 do. We can stay with the Johnson bill and come 4 back or go to the Levy bill, but Senator Levy, 5 it's not up to you and I to discuss it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 7 Senator, I believe we withdrew the roll call on 8 that bill, and we moved to reconsider this bill. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: We have, and 10 with Senator Johnson's approval, we will debate 11 now back 1409. 12 SENATOR GOLD: No objection. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: 1409. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 15 Levy, on your bill 1409. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 17 apologize to you for not being in the chamber. 18 I did want to make some comments on it. I am 19 not aware whether there was even any discussion 20 or debate or if you had a chance to explain it. 21 So let me yield to you if you wish to explain 22 the bill. 23 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, we had 6737 1 this same discussion last year. I'm only sorry 2 that the Assembly didn't pass this bill so we 3 could have been further advanced than we are. 4 What this bill does is to create 5 a commission to look into and come back and 6 report to us on an alternative to the property 7 tax for funding elementary and secondary school 8 education. The bill and the memo set forth who 9 has the appointments. 10 Senator, those people who pay 11 property taxes I'm sure overwhelmingly feel, and 12 rightfully so, that the property tax is a 13 tremendous burden as it relates to financing 14 elementary and secondary school education. 15 The gravamen of this bill is to 16 bring people from outside the process to take a 17 look at the very, very important problems 18 involved in trying to come up with an approach 19 that we can focus in on and make a determination 20 as to whether we're going to go to the income 21 tax as an alternative to the property tax or 22 some other revenue raising source to replace the 23 property tax. 6738 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 if Senator Levy would yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 4 Levy yields. 5 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 7 know we debated this bill. Am I correct that 8 last year that bill did not have an 9 appropriation to it? 10 SENATOR LEVY: No, it had the 11 identical appropriation it has in it this year. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Did it? Okay. 13 Thank you. 14 Mr. President, on the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: On the 16 bill. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I know the 18 bill is going to pass, but I wanted to recall it 19 because I just think it is wrong from so many 20 ways for us to set up a temporary commission to 21 do what we ought to be doing. You know there is 22 no great secret when it comes to taxation. You 23 can raise money by the income tax, the corporate 6739 1 tax, the sales tax and you got the property 2 tax. 3 Now, we all know that the 4 property tax is a regressive tax. It's a 5 burdensome tax. It's become a terrible problem 6 in many communities of this state, certainly 7 Long Island, Westchester and Rockland, and so 8 on. We also know that one of the reasons that 9 the property tax has gone up is that the 10 assistance the localities have received from the 11 federal government have declined precipitously, 12 and the state has not stepped in. 13 Now, many of the things that you, 14 the Majority, have done here insofar as how you 15 shape the state budget have determined that real 16 estate taxes are going to rise. Having done 17 that, then you say, well, let's have a study 18 commission to tell us what we ought to do. 19 We have the responsibility. I 20 remember in the debate last year, Senator Larkin 21 said -- and I was really amused by it. He said, 22 "Well," he said, "Leichter, we want to bring in 23 the best and the brightest." My answer was, "The 6740 1 best and the brightest are right here." These 2 are the 61 people that the people of the state 3 said are the best and the brightest. I accept 4 that. 5 Now, we're going to bring in - 6 what does it mean to bring in people outside of 7 the process. You know, somebody is going to, 8 what? A buffer, insulate us, Senator? Yes, we're 9 going to have some tough choices. We've got the 10 tough choices now. 11 We know people are going to say 12 the real estate tax is a lousy tax. You ought 13 to go to the income tax. Well, let's do it. 14 Why do we need a commission? Why do we need to 15 spend $500,000? 16 Senator, we're here; we took on 17 this responsibility. We've got to carry it out. 18 No commission should be doing the work that 19 we're doing. But I particularly dislike the 20 idea that we've created this situation, and now 21 we're seeing a commission. 22 And, Senator, maybe you can go 23 back to your community -- and I don't mean to 6741 1 say this pejoratively because I really have the 2 greatest respect for you. I think you are a 3 terrific Senator. You have always been 4 particularly courteous to me, and I mean that. 5 But is that, what, so that we can go back, and 6 people come and complain to us -- not in my 7 district. The real estate is not really a 8 matter that affects people. But in your 9 community, I'm sure people come to you and say, 10 "Norman, I'm being killed by the real estate 11 tax." And you're going to say, "I set up a 12 commission." 13 Well, what's the commission going 14 to do? I don't think it's fair, Senator. I think 15 it's obligation shedding on our part. It's a 16 waste of $500,000. We know what the choices 17 are. We've got to make them. That's our job. 18 We can't escape it through a commission. We 19 shouldn't be doing this. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Levy. 22 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Leichter, 23 I wish that the problem was as simple as the 6742 1 level that you have reduced the problem to. 2 Senator, number one, we have 3 involved the issue and the constitutional 4 concern as to are we going to be able to tax 5 business and commercial and other nonresidential 6 property utilizing the property tax and then at 7 the same time use some other alternative as it 8 relates to residential property. That is a 9 substantial constitutional question. 10 In addition to that, Senator, it 11 is not the question only of the stream of 12 revenue to replace the property tax, it also is 13 if you are going to, as an example, use an 14 income tax. Is an income tax going to be 15 applied on a statewide basis? Is it going to be 16 applied on a county basis? Is it going to be 17 applied on a regional basis? Are local school 18 districts going to have the opportunity to have 19 their own surcharge as it relates to an income 20 tax, and we could go on for the balance of the 21 session talking about all of the complex issues 22 that are intertwined and involved in this 23 determination. 6743 1 And I think it is extremely 2 important to do outside of the legislation and 3 to put on the commission a wide -- it wasn't 4 Senator Larkin that talked about the best and 5 the brightest. It was me. And your 6 responsibility was the same last year as it was 7 today, and that's what makes elections, horse 8 races, and discussions of bills. We have 9 differences of opinion. 10 And I think that this commission 11 that, hopefully, the Assembly will recognize its 12 worth and pass the legislation this session, can 13 do an extremely important job to move this 14 process forward. The Governor's been talking 15 about an alternative to the property tax. 16 Senator LaValle has been talking about it, 17 others in this Legislature, and I think if we 18 get outside of the legislative process and bring 19 in -- bring in through this study a consensus as 20 to an opinion, I think it will help move the 21 process forward. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 LaValle. 6744 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. I think Senator Levy probably hit 3 the nail on the head, that this debate will 4 track very closely the debate of last year on 5 this matter. But I think it's important to 6 state, once again, the importance of such a 7 commission and the focus it would have and the 8 work that it would do. 9 I think it's the right thing at 10 the right time; because as Senator Levy 11 indicated, the Governor at the beginning of the 12 year talked about an income tax. Some of us 13 have had legislation. 14 And for the first time this year 15 in the Education Committee, Senator Cook had on 16 the agenda and the committee reported a bill 17 that would move from the property tax to the 18 income tax. 19 But, Senator Leichter, if you 20 were at that committee meeting and the debate on 21 that bill -- or the discussion, because it 22 really wasn't a debate. It was a discussion on 23 the bill. The committee members raised numerous 6745 1 questions that would be involved in moving to a 2 different form in funding education. 3 And so we need a group to spend 4 time that would focus specifically on some of 5 these alternatives. But, more importantly, I 6 think we need to know and the public needs to 7 know with greater preciseness what the impact 8 would be on an alternative funding of education. 9 And so I think '93 is even more 10 compelling than '92 for passage and the creation 11 of such a commission because I think we need 12 answers now, and the longer we postpone this 13 commission, I think the longer the people will 14 be without a viable alternative to the system 15 that we have. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. I don't 20 want to leave a misconception here, Senator 21 Levy. When I said, you know, we know what the 22 choices are, you're right there are some complex 23 constitutional and legal questions. And as we 6746 1 know, just drafting any sort of a tax bill is 2 complex. There is no question about it. But, 3 essentially, it's a political decision to be 4 made. That's what we were elected to do. 5 And as far as the complexities of 6 the issues and Senator LaValle pointed out that, 7 without doubt, if you accept the Governor's 8 proposal, what are the consequences and so on, 9 but why can't we do this? We have an enormous 10 staff. We have a legislative budget of $168 11 million. We have staff. We've got some 12 excellent people on both sides of the aisle. 13 They have to address this. 14 I reject the idea that when it 15 comes to a tough issue and when it comes to a 16 complex issue, we say, "Wait a second, not us; 17 set up a commission." 18 We've got that responsibility, 19 and I think that we've got the ability to do 20 it. And if it is so super complex that we can't 21 do it, our staff, with $168 million worth of 22 staff, the best staff you can buy for $168 23 million, if they can't do this, you are going to 6747 1 be able to do that by setting up a commission 2 with $500,000? 3 I think -- well, when you take a 4 look at Congress and some of the things that 5 they've done, you know, they will do inevitably 6 through their committees. And when they've 7 tried to go outside of it, outside of the 8 committee structure, it's created more 9 difficulties. And it comes down to us anyhow. 10 We're going to have to cast a vote. We should 11 fashion a solution. This is not the way to go. 12 This is obligation shedding without question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 14 Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 16 President. Any time we don't want to do 17 something we create a commission, and we've had 18 this experience with Governor Rockefeller 19 creating commissions, and I will be very 20 bipartisan about it. Governor Carey did the 21 same thing. When formulas for funding education 22 were declared to be perhaps unconstitutional, 23 although unfortunately the Levittown decision 6748 1 came out I think with the wrong conclusion, but 2 whenever there was a question concerning the 3 suitability of our funding for education, we 4 have had governors and legislators create study 5 commissions. 6 It's a marvelous way of doing 7 nothing, and we have seen that there have not 8 been major substantive improvements in our 9 method of funding education. 10 I agree with Senator Levy that 11 our property tax is regressive, and we should 12 consider alternatives, but I must tell you, 13 Senator Levy, I don't know whether your proposal 14 looks at the indices of fiscal -- indices of 15 fiscal wealth in arriving at a formula. 16 I would ask you if you would 17 yield on that one question. Will your study 18 commission examine the suitability of real 19 property as an index of local wealth? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 21 Levy yields. 22 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, we have 23 not through this legislation sought to 6749 1 circumscribe what the commission has to look 2 into and what it shall not look into. We give 3 the greatest flexibility to the commission once 4 they focus in on the objective of what their 5 responsibility is to carry it out and conduct 6 the study the way they intend to do it. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: We have 8 already done certain things to fine tune the 9 indices of local fiscal capability when the 10 state provides aid to education, to local school 11 districts. And some years ago Assemblyman Levy 12 urged us and we did make some modest changes to 13 include income as well as real property wealth 14 in the index of local fiscal wealth. We did 15 that in an attempt to respond to one of the 16 concerns. 17 There is a finite source of money 18 called the taxpayer. And if you hit the 19 taxpayer with the income tax which, by the way, 20 we use for the state contribution to education 21 -- we can't rely on lottery money primarily. 22 We use the state income tax. We use the other 23 taxes available to the state, and the real 6750 1 property tax not only in New York State but 2 elsewhere has been used as a means of allowing 3 the locality to supplement what the state 4 provides in aid to school districts. 5 I am not opposed to what you are 6 doing. I have confidence in the Legislature. I 7 have confidence in the capability of members of 8 the Senate and the Assembly through their 9 standing committees to examine this issue, to 10 hold hearings. That's what we're supposed to 11 do. We delegate to an outside group, a new 12 group responsibility that we already have. 13 Senator John Marchi labored long 14 on a means of reforming the governance of the 15 New York City school system. Senator Marchi's 16 group submitted its report. Show me the actions 17 that we have taken to implement his proposal or 18 the action that we've taken to implement the 19 borough presidents' proposals. We have not. Or 20 the action we have taken to implement the 21 chancellor's and the mayor's request for 22 changing governance. 23 We can not abdicate our 6751 1 responsibility. We in the Legislature will 2 ultimately have to pass whatever is recommended 3 by a study commission, so we might as well save 4 some money and ask our standing committees which 5 have primary responsibility in this field to do 6 the job. 7 If we didn't want to do the job, 8 a very good diversionary tactic is to create a 9 temporary commission to study something, which 10 will then be reported back to us, and we will 11 have the absolute right to ignore if nobody 12 wants to do anything. 13 I have confidence, Senator Levy, 14 that if you ask the chairman of our Senate 15 Education Committee to look at this and the 16 chairman of the Senate Finance Committee to look 17 at this and set up a joint committee within our 18 chamber, I am convinced that we would have 19 enough expertise within these two committees, 20 Education and Finance, to be able to come up 21 with some of the proposals and the answers that 22 you seek. 23 We create temporary groups. They 6752 1 linger longer than they are needed. We create 2 temporary groups on reapportionment, and we keep 3 them going over a ten-year period when there is 4 no reapportionment. And we create a temporary 5 commission for this and a temporary commission 6 for that. 7 Ask your colleagues in two very 8 substantive committees, Education and Finance, 9 to undertake this job and save some money and 10 avoid having a whole new group embark upon a 11 hunt, and it may not be the Hunt for Red 12 October. It may be the hunt for doing nothing. 13 I am not going to discourage you 14 if this is the way you want to go, but I will 15 say do not expect too much from this abandonment 16 of our responsibility. Because whenever these 17 special groups have been created in the past, 18 they produce very little in the field of 19 education reform. 20 I served, when I first came here, 21 on a Joint Legislative Commission to Revise and 22 Simplify the Education Law. It was chaired by a 23 well respected member of the Senate. I was just 6753 1 a junior member of the joint legislative 2 committee. D. Clinton Dominick, I think some of 3 the members of the chamber here will remember 4 his name, a very distinguished, constructive 5 member of the Legislature. And there wasn't 6 much revision of the Education Law. There was 7 some. 8 But I'm saying that do not look 9 for long time panaceas when we ought to 10 encourage the action within our own chamber, by 11 the standing committees, not by anybody else. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 2. 20 Senators Espada and Leichter recorded in the 21 negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 6754 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Leichter. Sorry. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Can we take up 5 Calendar 1364 next? 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just one 7 second. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Bear with me 11 one minute. May I have unanimous consent to be 12 recorded in the negative on Calendar 900 and 13 Calendar 1217, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 15 objection, Senator Leichter in the negative on 16 900 and 1217. 17 At the request of the Majority 18 Leader, we will return to 1364. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1364, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 21 2623A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 6755 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 9 bill is passed. Senator Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Take up 11 Calendar 1446. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 13 will call up Calendar 1446. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1446, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 16 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8529, 17 Estate, Powers and Trusts Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 23 the roll. 6756 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 4 bill is passed. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Regular order, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Regular 8 order will start at 1418. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1418, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 11 5072B, Environmental Conservation Law. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 13 Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 15 Johnson, explanation requested. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 17 this is the biodiveresity stewardship and 18 research bill. This is an agreed bill by the 19 Assembly environmental committee and ours and 20 has broad support from all the agencies which 21 would be involved in this measure, the DEC, 22 Parks and Recreational, Department of Education, 23 et cetera. 6757 1 This is going to provide for a 2 survey and management of environmentally viable 3 communities on state lands to study the 4 biodiveresity out there, to establish the 5 research institute, and the Education Department 6 to maintain information on the biodiveresity in 7 our state. 8 Creates a biodiveresity fund to 9 receive federal, state, and other monies to 10 establish this work. We do have a New York 11 natural heritage program, and biological 12 survey. This establishes them in law and 13 provides them the ability to run a census of 14 these resources and monitor the status of rare 15 plants and animals. 16 It mandates DEC and OPHRP to 17 identify, conserve and manage the state lands 18 and set aside park preserves where these 19 biologically valuable communities exist. 20 It also provides an agency, an 21 executive board, which shall oversee these 22 activities, and then they establish a scientific 23 working group to interrelate with the various 6758 1 agencies here. 2 The executive committee would 3 have appointees, and some of those would be by 4 the Governor, and others would be by the 5 Majority and Minority Leader of each house. So 6 we're going to have broad representation of 7 industry, government, and so forth, all parties, 8 to forward the goals of studying, understanding 9 and preserving the biodiveresity of our state. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Oppenheimer. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you 15 very much, Mr. President. I wanted to correct 16 something that I wasn't sure was generally 17 noted. The DEC had said that they had very 18 serious concerns about the bill, and I just 19 wanted to apprise people that these serious 20 concerns really didn't have to do specifically 21 with the bill but, rather, where the funding 22 stream would come from and who would be on this 23 committee that would be created, this Executive 6759 1 committee, which they perceived as being too 2 political and that without an environmental 3 trust fund there wouldn't be any money. 4 So you are now saying, Senator, 5 that the DEC is now supporting this? 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: The DEC 7 expressed serious concerns in a rather arrogant 8 fashion, in my view, and to think that an 9 organization headed by a political appointee who 10 has advisory boards on every level, a political 11 appointee, should denigrate political appointees 12 collectively and say they don't want anybody 13 like that on this board is really the height of 14 arrogance and ignorance, and I'm quite sure the 15 commissioner didn't see this because he wouldn't 16 have put it out. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Okay. 18 Thank you very much. I would like to speak on 19 the bill a moment because I think Senator 20 Johnson has clearly said several of the things 21 that I wanted to say, because I didn't want us 22 to be distracted by the fact that DEC had 23 serious concerns because I didn't feel, as you, 6760 1 that they were. 2 We did call up some of our 3 environmental groups, and every one seems to 4 support it. New York State Parks and Rec by the 5 phone said yes. Scenic Hudson said yes. EPL 6 has a support memo, the Nature Conservancy. 7 This is a very interesting bill, 8 and it will permit New York State through our 9 state land stewardship program to promote the 10 collection of scientific information which our 11 parks department and DEC are going to work 12 together on to conserve and manage our 13 endangered species and various other species, 14 plants and animals in our state. 15 It creates a mandate to census 16 and monitor these plants and these animals in 17 New York State while specifically looking at 18 those rare species. 19 One of our problems in our state 20 is that we have not really protected the habitat 21 of some of these rare species. I have a bill in 22 that would protect the habitat of endangered and 23 threatened species. 6761 1 What we need is more information, 2 and this bill would provide for the gathering of 3 this information, specifically to deal with the 4 rare and endangered species, and I think it's an 5 excellent bill. 6 And I would urge everyone's 7 support of it because loss of habitat in our 8 state is what's causing extinction more than any 9 other fact. Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Waldon. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 13 much, Mr. President. May I please ask Senator 14 Johnson to indulge me in a question or two? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Johnson, will you yield to Senator Waldon? 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator. 18 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize, 19 Senator, for having been out of the chamber when 20 you gave your explanation of the bill, but maybe 21 you can help me. 22 Are there not universities in 23 this state which already do the kind of thing in 6762 1 terms of compilation of information and data and 2 the analysis as suggested by your bill? 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: There is 4 research done in various universities, Senator, 5 but there's no place which has the facilities 6 which presently exist in the state museum and 7 which will be enhanced by this legislation. In 8 other words, we are taking a New York biological 9 survey which exists and putting that into the 10 law, and they are the source of a lot of 11 research information for the universities 12 themselves because this survey has existed for 13 more than 100 years. 14 And so what we're doing is we're 15 seeing that the information which is gathered is 16 coordinated and made available through this 17 institute rather than doing direct research 18 themselves. 19 SENATOR WALDON: What will the 20 cost factor be in regard to the improvements and 21 enhancements that your bill suggests? 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, we 23 don't have a direct cost. These things are 6763 1 being done now, essentially, with state funds 2 and what we're saying is if they have to advance 3 further programs that this money shall be made 4 available from various sources which presently 5 exist, state and federal money, possibly the 6 environmental trust bill we're doing, and so 7 forth. 8 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 9 Mr. President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 11 Johnson continues to yield. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm ready for 15 your question. 16 SENATOR WALDON: I was waiting 17 for you to finish with the colloquy on the side. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Okay. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, if I 20 understand you correctly with the statements 21 just made, if the federal government sends money 22 that the state can properly use in this area, 23 some of it will be taken to enhance the museum 6764 1 and the task and the role that you envision it 2 playing regarding the gathering of the data, is 3 that correct? 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator. 5 SENATOR WALDON: My concern - 6 thank you very much, Senator. 7 If I may, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: My concern is 11 that there seems to be a redundancy here. There 12 are certainly a number of universities which are 13 doing exactly what this bill proposes, as I 14 understand what they're doing, and I'm wondering 15 whether or not this is not somehow just shoring 16 up DEC when it is unnecessary. 17 DEC does do a fairly decent job 18 at times. I'm not really satisfied with what 19 they do most of the time, but I just question is 20 this another situation where we are giving them 21 unnecessarily money? 22 Thank you very much, Mr. 23 President. 6765 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 Johnson. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 4 would like to say that the DEC doesn't do what 5 this survey would do. There are no state fiscal 6 implications beyond any present funds which go 7 to the state museum or the Department of 8 Education. 9 This is more of a repository of 10 collecting and gathering information than it is 11 a research branch as, for example, Cornell or 12 something else which knows about the creatures 13 and the disease of the creatures and the way 14 they interrelate with the environment and with 15 the greenery, and so forth. But no one has all 16 this in one place, and this is a presently 17 existing repository of information which will be 18 enhanced by this process. And I might say in 19 addition to federal money or environmental trust 20 money, there is private money which is being 21 donated continually to this process as it has 22 been for almost the past hundred years. 23 Yes, thank you. 6766 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 2 LaValle. 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 4 I rise in support of Senator Johnson's 5 legislation. Myself, and I know Senator 6 Present, Senator Goodman, former Senator 7 Lombardi, and others serve on the visiting 8 committee of the museum. The last meeting we 9 discussed this very legislation for a 10 considerable period of time, and I think those 11 members of the committee, I think, learned a 12 great deal about the need for this legislation 13 and the kinds of things and the benefit to the 14 state in ultimately developing a master plan for 15 this state. 16 So I'm actually surprised that 17 there is debate that we're having on this 18 legislation and that some people have concerns, 19 because I know that many different groups and 20 interests have been talking and have been 21 involved in the development of this 22 legislation. 23 I think it's -- a lot of people 6767 1 have participated in the development of this 2 legislation. I think ultimately its passage 3 would be a real plus for the state of New York. 4 And, Senator Johnson, once again I rise to 5 commend you on your efforts. 6 (Whereupon, Senator Johnson took 7 a bow. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Sheffer. 10 SENATOR SHEFFER: Mr. President, 11 I take great pride in supporting this bill. The 12 effort to conserve biological diversity and to 13 promote better stewardship of public lands in 14 this state are extremely compelling themselves 15 of the challenge of protecting and improving our 16 environment. 17 The fact that the Department of 18 Environmental Conservation expresses deep 19 concerns or serious concerns, or whatever it 20 was, regarding this bill is to me -- and this is 21 only my own judgment -- just one more indicator 22 of the near bankruptcy of that department in 23 their stewardship of our state resources. 6768 1 I believe that this is an 2 extraordinarily important step forward for this 3 state and for our environment and urge its 4 overwhelming passage. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 14 bill is passed. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: House 20 keeping, on a point of order. Was Calendar 21 Number 1453 approved? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 1453. 23 Yes. 6769 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I have 2 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 3 on that bill, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 5 Dollinger unanimous consent, without objection, 6 recorded in the negative on 1453. 7 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 9 Jones. 10 SENATOR JONES: I would make the 11 same request for 1453. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Jones, without objection, negative on 1453. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1422, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 16 5665, an act to amend Chapter 611 of the Laws of 17 1977. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 19 Padavan, explanation requested. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 This proposed act would permit a 23 number of employees in the district attorneys' 6770 1 offices within the city of New York, mostly 2 ADAs, who were employed prior to July of '76 to 3 join the pension tier that they would have first 4 been eligible to join, meaning at that time. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1423, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Bill Number 5702A, amends Chapter 879 of the 18 Laws of 1936. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay 22 that bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6771 1 1429, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 6003, 2 Retirement and Social Security Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Home 4 rule message at the desk. 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1431, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Bill Number 6049, amends Chapter 814 of the Laws 17 of 1987. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Hold on 23 here. 6772 1 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 3 Jones. 4 SENATOR JONES: I believe there 5 is an amendment at the desk. I'd like to ask 6 that it be called up, please, waive the reading. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that one 8 aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Lay it 10 aside for the time being. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1433, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 3407B, 13 an act to amend the Executive Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 23 bill is passed. 6773 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1435, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 3 3800A. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 5 Maltese yield to a question? 6 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 8 Maltese yields. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the 10 little squib that I have says "Allows a crime 11 victim or his representative to meet with a 12 member of the Parole Board and make an oral 13 statement concerning the discretionary release 14 of an inmate. Directs such board member to 15 reduce the statement to writing and present it 16 to the board to consider." Is that basically 17 it? 18 SENATOR MALTESE: That's 19 basically it. I believe the representative 20 would only be permitted to do that if the crime 21 victim is deceased or is mentally or physically 22 incapacitated. 23 In other words, you mentioned "or 6774 1 his representative." The representative would 2 only act when the crime victim is in one of 3 those categories. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator, the 5 only part of it that I was concerned about which 6 I would like you to comment on -- I mean I don't 7 have a problem generally with it, but we're 8 talking about somebody talking to somebody and 9 then that somebody reducing the comments to 10 writing and showing it to somebody else. I'm 11 only concerned about what you lose in the 12 translation. I mean wouldn't it be better, 13 Senator, if the person, if the victim either put 14 something in writing himself or herself that got 15 transmitted along? 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 17 as Senator Gold knows, the victim at this point 18 in time can make such a written statement. What 19 this proposal or statute seeks to do is give 20 them an added right. This program has been in 21 effect as a pilot program since 1991, and has - 22 I am advised has apparently worked very well. 23 SENATOR GOLD: What I'm getting 6775 1 at, Senator, is I don't have a problem with the 2 fact that crime victims want certain input. I 3 don't have a problem with that at all. I'm just 4 saying that the way I understand the bill, the 5 crime victim or the representative would meet 6 with someone, be interviewed and that that 7 person would prepare a statement, and then that 8 statement is what that gets transferred around. 9 I don't know why it wouldn't just be better to 10 have the crime victim prepare -- even if it was 11 with the help of the board member but have the 12 statement come directly from the victim instead 13 of having it transposed. 14 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 16 Maltese. 17 SENATOR MALTESE: I think the 18 problem originally was they felt that it would 19 be difficult to have the crime victim, first of 20 all, for purposes of confidentiality meet at a 21 time and place as -- at the same time and place 22 as when the inmate appears before the board. 23 Second, they felt it would be an 6776 1 undue burden on the Parole Board to have the 2 crime victim or a representative meet with more 3 than one member of the Parole Board. This was 4 arrived at as a happy medium which would not 5 unduly tax the members of the Parole Board. And 6 in the rules and regulations thus far 7 promulgated for the test program, they have 8 certain guidelines that the members of the 9 Parole Board would follow. The purpose of the 10 statute is to reduce the statement into writing. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Maltese, 15 I'm not arguing with you, but that's nothing of 16 what I'm talking about. I didn't suggest that 17 crime victim meet the criminal or that they be 18 there at the same time. 19 I'm just asking -- just one minor 20 point that I'm just asking you about. It would 21 seem to me that the statement that goes to the 22 board ought to come from the victim or the 23 family. I don't know why we need somebody to 6777 1 listen to that story and transpose it and then 2 give their version of the story to the board 3 rather than the victim's own version going to 4 the board. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 7 Maltese. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Senator Gold 9 has made himself clear. This seeks to give an 10 additional right and, very honestly, it is to 11 put a human face on the victim or the victim's 12 representative so that it isn't simply a piece 13 of paper, so that the member of the Parole Board 14 who hears the statement is actually going 15 face-to-face with either the victim or his 16 representative to put a human element into the 17 equation and kind of equalize the situation. 18 Because when the inmate appears, the inmate 19 appears in person. 20 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 22 Gold on the bill. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 6778 1 have been too much involved with crime victims 2 to vote against a bill over this kind of a 3 situation, but I would like to point out that I 4 have been hearing some things, particularly 5 within the last week, which are very disturbing 6 about certain parole officers and how they are 7 operating, and I would say to my Italian friends 8 in this chamber I would be glad to discuss this 9 with you off the floor. You would be horrified 10 at some of the things that I have heard 11 recently, and I would be glad to discuss it. 12 But there is a parlor game called 13 "Telephone" where one person tells another and 14 another tells another and another tells another 15 and then everybody laughs when they find out how 16 it's been distorted. 17 I don't have any problem with the 18 concept of a crime victim being involved and 19 telling their story. As a matter of fact, years 20 ago there was a procedure where a person had a 21 problem with a certain federal agency, they 22 would come forward and the government provided 23 people to help them prepare their statement 6779 1 which would go to the agency. 2 I would think that if a victim 3 came forward and met with a member of the board, 4 that's fine. And let the board member help the 5 victim prepare his statement, and then you would 6 be getting the victim's statement. 7 I don't trust too many people 8 involved in parole after what I have been 9 hearing, Senator. And when I talk to you later, 10 you will agree, and I think it ought to be 11 direct statements. 12 At any rate, I've heard it ad 13 nauseum, we're in the closing hours. Nobody is 14 going to amend anything, and so I'm not going to 15 vote against the bill. But I'm telling you, you 16 would be doing the victims a greater service if 17 you provided in this situation so that they 18 could give their own statement, even if they met 19 with the parole person and worked with them. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6780 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Holland. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: With unanimous 9 consent, I would like to be recorded in the 10 negative on 1444, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 12 Holland in the negative on 14 -- that bill was 13 laid aside, Senator Holland, so it wasn't 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1438, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 17 4569A, allowing Pauline Ogus to receive service 18 credit in the teachers retirement system. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Call 6781 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 2, 4 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 5 negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 7 bill is passed. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 I hope you will be delighted with what I'm about 11 to announce. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Present, could I interrupt for one second? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: We have 16 a lot of housekeeping stuff here at the desk. 17 Do you want to do it now or later? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's try and 19 do it and let the desk be happy too. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Okay. 21 Thank you, Senator. 22 Senator Stavisky. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 6782 1 President, I wish to call up my bill, Print 2 Number 426, recalled from the Assembly, which is 3 now at the desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 5 Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 7 Stavisky, Senate Bill Number 426, an act to 8 amend the Penal Law. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 10 President. I now move to reconsider the vote by 11 which the bill was passed. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 13 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 14 (The Secretary called the roll on 15 reconsideration. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 18 bill is before the house. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 20 President. I now offer the following 21 amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 23 Amendments received and adopted. 6783 1 Senator Daly. 2 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 3 wish to call up Senator Tully's bill, 49, 4 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 5 desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Clerk 7 will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully, 9 Senate Bill Number 49, an act to amend the 10 Education Law. 11 SENATOR DALY: I now move, Mr. 12 President, to reconsider the vote by which the 13 bill was passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 15 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 20 bill is before the house. 21 SENATOR DALY: I now offer up the 22 following amendments. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 6784 1 Amendments received and adopted. 2 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 3 wish to call up Senator Libous' bill, 3815C, re 4 called from the Assembly, which is now at the 5 desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 9 Libous, Senate Bill Number 3815C, an act to 10 amend the General Business Law. 11 SENATOR DALY: I now move to 12 reconsider the vote by which the bill was 13 passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 15 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 20 bill is before the house. 21 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 22 now offer up the following amendments. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 6785 1 Amendments received and adopted. 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 4 On behalf of Senator Sears, I move to amend 5 Senate Bill Number 3316C, by striking out the 6 amendments made on June the 14th and restoring 7 it to its previous Print Number 3316B and 8 retaining its place on the Third Reading 9 Calendar, Number 338. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Bill is 11 restored without objection. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Also, Mr. Presi 13 dent, on page 45, I offer the following amend 14 ments to Calendar Number 200 for Senator Saland, 15 Senate Print Number 766A, and ask that said bill 16 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 18 Amendments received and adopted. 19 Senator DeFrancisco. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On behalf 21 of Senator Stafford, Mr. President, I move to 22 amend Senate Bill Number 4970A by striking out 23 the amendments made on June 30th and restoring 6786 1 it to its original Print Number 4970. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 3 objection, amendments received. 4 That's it. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Now, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: We got 9 one more. Sorry, Senator. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 15 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 16 on Calendar 1422, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Without 18 objection, Senator Leichter in the negative on 19 1422. 20 Senator Holland. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: We're 22 questioning 1444. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: It was recalled 6787 1 and laid aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: 3 Recalled and laid aside. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 we're going to stand at ease now until 9:00 7 o'clock. So I would advise everybody to go out 8 and get a good healthy meal and try and return 9 here -- show me how good you can be -- return 10 promptly at 9:00 o'clock, so we can get on with 11 business. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senate 13 is in recess until promptly at 9:00 o'clock. 14 (Whereupon, at 6:53 p.m., the 15 Senate recessed. ) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 6788 1 ...At 9:50 p.m.... (Microphones 2 not turned on) Senator Marino, from the 3 Committee on Rules, reports the following bill 4 directly for third reading: Senate Bill Number 5 6106, by the Senate Committee on Rules, an act 6 to amend the Emergency Housing Rent Control Law, 7 the Local Emergency Housing Rent Control Act. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Without 9 objection, third reading. Senate will come to 10 order. 11 Senator Present, can we go to 12 motions and resolutions. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Motions 15 and resolutions: The Secretary will accept 16 amendments to Calendar 81, Senate Print 6065, 17 and the bill will retain its place on Third 18 Reading Calendar, and on page 34 the Secretary 19 will take amendments to Calendar 1391, Senate 20 Print 5886-A and that bill will retain its place 21 on Third Reading Calendar. 22 Other motions and resolutions? 23 Senator Present. 6789 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 let's take up 1467. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 4 will read the title of 1467. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1467, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 7 5705-C, an act to amend the General Municipal 8 Law and the Public Authorities Law, in relation 9 to Industrial Development Agencies. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: May I ask one 14 question? Are we ringing the bell? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Would you 16 like the bells rung, Senator Gold? 17 SENATOR GOLD: Well, 18 unquestionably. They were due back here at nine 19 and I'm not complaining, and I understand things 20 are in the works. But since we are now going 21 into session, I think it's important to ring the 22 bells. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Thank 6790 1 you, Senator. The Secretary will now ring the 2 bells. For all Senators who are in the LOB or 3 within the sound of the chamber or near the 4 chamber, would you please return to chamber. We 5 are in session. We are considering bills, and 6 indeed there is a bill on the floor. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 8 Gold? Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 is there a message on this bill? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: There is 12 a message, Senator. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 14 accept the message. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: On the 16 motion of Senator Present to accept the message, 17 all those in favor aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Contrary, nay. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 The message is accepted. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very 6791 1 much, Mr. President. 2 Senator Gold, this is a bill that 3 has been negotiated with the Assembly for the 4 past seven months -- or seven weeks, and what 5 this bill does is take in consideration all the 6 complaints, the problems we've heard about the 7 IDAs after two and a half months of hearing, and 8 what we've done on this bill is to increase the 9 accountability of IDAs to local governments, 10 increase public input to the IDA decision-making 11 process, clarify the rules IDAs must follow, yet 12 allowing IDAs to function and assist in the 13 development in their local governments. 14 We're confident that what we've 15 put together here jointly between the Senate and 16 the Assembly, in IDA new policy increases public 17 accountability. IDAs must give ten days notice 18 of a public hearing regarding proposed tax 19 exemption for projects of more than a hundred 20 thousand. 21 IDAs must submit a copy of their 22 proposed annual budgeted to local governments 23 for comment and it must be on file for public 6792 1 inspection. Detailed reports of IDA activities 2 must be filed with the state comptroller. 3 A critical point from before, if 4 an IDA fails to comply with it, the IDA can have 5 its authority suspended and its tax exemptions 6 turned down in the future. The payments in lieu 7 of taxes, we've heard through the past that many 8 IDAs of county and regional areas kept the money 9 themselves. This law requires that payment in 10 lieu of taxes that are collected by an IDA must 11 be remitted to municipalities and school 12 districts within 30 days. Payment in lieu of 13 taxes must be distributed in the same proportion 14 as if there had been no tax exemption granted. 15 IDAs must notify school districts 16 of the amount of tax exemption granted. IDA 17 board members are subject to municipal ethics 18 and conflict of interest laws. IDA board 19 members -- IDA projects must comply with local 20 zoning. IDA purchase of goods and services must 21 comply with guidelines for investments and IDAs 22 must establish a detailed policy for granting 23 tax exemptions. 6793 1 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 2 yield to a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 4 will you yield? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 7 Gold, Senator Larkin will yield. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 I'm looking at a memo that was 11 handed out in Rules, and it says: Section 8. 12 Adds section 858 (b) require IDAs to ensure that 13 all applicants and employees of applicants are 14 afforded equal opportunity without 15 discrimination. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Where is that in 18 the bill? I tried to find the reference in the 19 bill itself. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: In Section 8 21 itself. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I'm just 23 reading from the memo. Section 8 of the memo 6794 1 says, adds 858 (b). 2 SENATOR LARKIN: This was coming 3 out of the Governor's office that they wanted to 4 make sure that the utilization of IDA funds that 5 had been granted before was still in being, sir. 6 SENATOR GOLD: O.K. Thank you. I 7 think I have it now. On page 5, actually it's 8 Section 9, it says that each agency shall ensure 9 all employees and applicants for employment - 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Excuse me, 11 Senator Gold. I can't hear you. I'm sorry. I 12 don't mean to be rude. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I'm saying 14 that it's Section 9, it's not Section 8, but at 15 any rate, it talks about equal opportunity and 16 without discrimination. Senator, is there -- is 17 there anything in the -- in this law that 18 discusses standards by which the various 19 applications that are presented to the IDAs are 20 to be considered? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't know. 22 In what manner do you mean? 23 SENATOR GOLD: I'll be glad to 6795 1 explain. I'll be glad to explain. Could we 2 close that door, please? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Could we 4 -- could the Sergeant-at-Arms on the west door 5 please keep it closed. Thank you. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Is there anything 7 in the law, Senator Larkin, that sets forth any 8 standards of conduct in terms of how an IDA 9 decides that it's going to lend money to (a) 10 rather than (b) rather than (c)? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Where is that in 13 the bill? 14 SENATOR LARKIN: On page 9, 15 Senator, Section 4 (a) the agency shall 16 establish a uniform tax exemption policy with 17 input from effective local taxing jurisdictions 18 which shall be applicable to the grants of the 19 financial assistance pursuant to section 809 (a) 20 of this chapter and shall provide guidelines for 21 the claiming of real property, mortgage 22 recording and sales tax exemptions. Such 23 guidelines shall include but not be limited to 6796 1 the period of exemption, the percentage of 2 exemption, the types of projects for which 3 exemptions will be claimed and the procedure for 4 payment in lieu of real property taxes and in 5 the instance in which real property appraisals 6 are to be performed as part of an application 7 for an exemption. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Now, 9 if Senator Larkin will yield to a question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 11 will yield. Yes, Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Is that the 13 section, Senator -- supposing, Senator Larkin, 14 that a group comes to a local IDA seeking 15 funding. Is that the section that is going to 16 decide whether or not there are guidelines or 17 whether they fit into some category? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, yes. 19 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Now, 20 Senator Larkin, assuming that is so, Group A 21 comes to the local IDA. I don't know whether 22 there are any in your district but comes to the 23 local IDA, and the local IDA meets with them, 6797 1 and they say that they do not want to deal with 2 them, they are not going to give them a loan, 3 all right? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: M-m h-m-m. 5 SENATOR GOLD: What, if anything, 6 is the procedure that that group can follow 7 under this bill? Is there any remedy? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, it's - 9 it's up to the local governing authority, the 10 IDA and the municipality that has the IDA, to 11 make that decision. In the bill itself, there 12 is specific criteria whether it's retail, civic 13 facilities, or what not, and they must meet 14 certain criteria before they can become eligible 15 to participate in the program. 16 SENATOR GOLD: I understand 17 that. If the Senator will yield to a question. 18 Senator Larkin, I understand 19 that. Now, you've got all of these criteria, 20 and Senator Waldon comes in with a group and he 21 shows you that they meet all of the criteria and 22 your IDA turns him down. Is there a procedure 23 by which he can appeal? 6798 1 SENATOR LARKIN: No, he can't. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Right. Thank 3 you. You're absolutely right. 4 Now, the next question, Senator 5 Larkin, and this is the kicker, this shows what 6 I think is wrong with the whole system. 7 SENATOR LARKIN: I can't hear 8 him. 9 SENATOR GOLD: When Senator 10 Waldon comes in with his group and discusses it 11 with the IDA and the IDA says that he is not 12 qualified or whatever, from which he has no 13 appeal, isn't it a fact that there are no 14 records maintained by the local IDA that would 15 indicate that Senator Waldon was even in there? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Gold, 17 there are public records. Two things that I 18 think we should understand here, that within ten 19 days of a notice of an application, if a project 20 is worth $100,000, there has to be a public 21 hearing. There are records and records are 22 maintained and records -- records must be filed 23 not only with the IDA but with the governing 6799 1 municipality. 2 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator 7 Larkin is telling the truth, but it's not 8 accurate. Now, what does that mean? Outside 9 this chamber in the real world, I'll tell you 10 what we found out, and we found out about it 11 through that wonderful situation where, with the 12 help of Senator D'Amato, the people of Nassau 13 County lost Roosevelt Raceway. We found out 14 that the way some of the IDAs work, Senator 15 Larkin, is they will not accept an application 16 until such time as they have had full 17 conversation with the applicant and have decided 18 that they will go ahead. Then the applicant 19 puts in an application and then they give notice 20 and then they have a hearing and then, Senator 21 Larkin, they do whatever they're going to do, 22 but what happens, if they're not going to give 23 the loan or accept the application, there is no 6800 1 paperwork and without any paperwork, Senator 2 Larkin, your bill means nothing, and the reason 3 it means nothing is very simple, because when 4 Jones walks in and on Jones' arm is the right 5 lawyer, politically connected properly, and gets 6 the loan, you've got paperwork, but when Smith 7 walks in with the wrong lawyer and with the 8 wrong project, there is no paperwork. 9 So when you take a look at 10 everything you've done in your bill, the 11 paperwork that is maintained will conform to a 12 statute, but that paperwork does not, Senator - 13 Senator Larkin, with a lot of the IDAs reflect 14 what they are doing day by day. 15 Now, I see you've gotten to your 16 feet. If there is a response, I really would 17 like to hear it. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I 19 understand what you're saying, and during the 20 hearings that we've held over the past two and a 21 half years, we've come over some of the problems 22 that you're complaining about tonight. But let 23 me tell you, Senator, what we have in here with 6801 1 the public hearings, the filings, the oversight 2 of the municipality to overlook the budgets of 3 IDAs, the requirement for the reports to the 4 Comptroller, all of these were not in being in 5 previous IDAs. 6 We're confident that what we're 7 doing now, in addition to the fact, if you look 8 when you talk about civic facilities, we're 9 talkin' about a sunset provision, we feel 10 confident that what we're saying and what we're 11 demanding will protect municipalities and when 12 you say about the strong arm coming in, we have 13 a piece in there about ethics, and I believe 14 that what we're saying and what we've agreed to 15 on both houses is a measure that is supported by 16 local governments. 17 We have, during the discussions 18 since the first day we started talking about 19 reforming IDAs, we've been talking with the 20 Conference of Mayors, the Association of Towns, 21 the school boards and the Association of 22 Counties, and they're all on board on this 23 because they believe what we have done has 6802 1 lightened up the procedures to protect the 2 taxpayers. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 9 Gold, on the bill. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 11 think there used to be an expression that 12 somebody was a Philadelphia lawyer or whatever. 13 Many people talk about circumstances where you 14 get a lawyer. It happens, by the way, in the 15 Election Law all of the time which -- which many 16 of us laugh at over a beer sometimes. We set up 17 the rules and then people get a good lawyer to 18 tell you how you do everything you want to do 19 anyway by getting around whatever the rules 20 are. You set the rules. 21 There are some things that have 22 more effect than others. Now, Senator Cook, I 23 think, has been very outspoken in terms of 6803 1 wanting to do something about the IDAs, but on 2 some of his bills I've raised this issue and the 3 one issue that I think is the major controlling 4 issue is not in these bills. Now, one of the 5 reasons it may be in the bill is that we don't 6 even have it in the Senate. One of the things 7 Senator Leichter and Senator Dollinger fought so 8 much. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Excuse me, 10 Senator Gold. I can't hear you, Senator Gold, 11 when you talk over there. At my age, the 12 hearing aid isn't working. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I'm supposed 14 to talk to the Chair, but I'll do it this way 15 anyway. 16 At any rate, Mr. President, we 17 have been trying to make the point in this 18 chamber that no matter what rules and 19 regulations you have, if you can't see the 20 record keeping then who knows whether the rules 21 are being obeyed. 22 The problem with this bill, and 23 I'm not saying that it's a terrible bill, 6804 1 Senator Larkin, or that I'm going to vote 2 against it, but you got a huge gap in this bill, 3 because the fact of the matter is, if you don't 4 require IDAs to do everything on the record from 5 day one and by that, I mean if an applicant 6 walks in the door, there has to be a record that 7 the applicant walked in the door. If you don't 8 have that record, then you don't know under 9 Section 9 of the bill whether there has been 10 discrimination or equal opportunities. You 11 don't know, because there is no record keeping. 12 I'm sorry. I don't have it here 13 today, Senator Larkin, but you have probably 14 seen it since you've worked in this area, but 15 there are other people who should see it. I 16 requested a record of all the IDA loans that 17 were given out in the state in a period of time 18 and I want to tell you, it's enough -- it's 19 enough to raise your hair. 20 A law firm in Nassau County two 21 and a half million dollars to redecorate their 22 offices. What that has to do with IDAs, I'll 23 never know. There were upstate firms that got 6805 1 money to -- to do things which had nothing to do 2 with creating jobs, didn't create one job in the 3 world. All of that kind of stuff was really an 4 outrage. 5 All right. Well, maybe this new 6 bill will correct some of that, but the worst 7 thing that I found was that I would talk to 8 people involved in some of the IDAs. They would 9 look me in the eye and make no bones about the 10 fact that nobody got an application unless there 11 was going to be a loan. Therefore, 100 percent 12 of the people who applied got loans. Of course, 13 that is not true because there were people who 14 wanted the loans who couldn't even get an 15 application blank. 16 Now, if you want to hold a 17 hearing or you want to hold an investigation and 18 find out why A, B, C, D and E didn't get the 19 loans, you couldn't because you wouldn't even 20 know they walked in the door. 21 Now, that is the flaw. I have an 22 amendment here, Senator Larkin, which I'm not 23 going to offer because I don't want to go 6806 1 through this nonsense. I know how your side has 2 ego problems with amendments, but that's what 3 really ought to happen. The bill is an 4 improvement, but I'm telling you, you're going 5 to make your studies two or three years from now 6 and you're going to find that everything looks 7 terrific because you're not going to know that 8 three Hispanic firms got thrown out and there 9 were two Afro-American companies that got thrown 10 out because there's not going to be any 11 records. Nobody is going to know it and that 12 IDA will do whatever it has to do, I'm sure, to 13 live within what their standards are and what 14 you say this bill is, but in reality, in 15 day-to-day reality, I don't think we are cutting 16 back on them one iota. 17 Now, I hope we're cutting back, 18 Senator Larkin, from the point of view that I 19 hope we don't have any more Nassau County law 20 firms that get two and a half million dollars to 21 decorate offices, and I'm hoping we'll cut back 22 so that people who can put up a few hundred 23 million dollars of money will do it instead of 6807 1 taking that money and, in my opinion, stealing 2 Roosevelt Raceway with the help of a U. S. 3 Senator. 4 But it is better. It is better, 5 but I'm telling you, in making it better, you 6 still got a loophole there that's bigger than 7 the size of this chamber. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 9 Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. President. 12 Mr. President, would Senator 13 Larkin yield to a question or two? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 15 will you yield to Senator Waldon? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 18 Waldon, he will. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. President. Senator, I heard you say 21 earlier and maybe I didn't hear correctly so I 22 will stand corrected. I thought I heard you say 23 that a part of the purpose of what you're 6808 1 submitting for our consideration is to benefit 2 the state in terms of taxes; is that correct? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Would you repeat 4 that? 5 SENATOR WALDON: I thought I 6 heard you say earlier that part of the 7 consideration for what you're submitting to us 8 is that there would be a better tax benefit to 9 the state? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: I didn't say 11 anything about a better tax benefit to the 12 state, Senator. 13 SENATOR WALDON: O.K. Let me 14 stand corrected. Are you aware that it is 15 estimated that from '87 to '91, 1987 to 1991, 16 that as a result of Industrial Development 17 Agency projects, the state lost $1.3 billion in 18 tax revenue? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I don't 20 know what the total loss was. All I can tell 21 you is that we've held hearings -- Senator Cook 22 was the former chairman of Local Government. We 23 held hearings across the state, and we had input 6809 1 from every part of the state and every sector 2 and what's contained in this legislation was the 3 benefit of what we heard at the hearings and 4 what we've done is tightened this up. 5 There -- previous to this, there 6 was no requirements, there was no input for the 7 Comptroller except that it said you will submit 8 reports. We're saying how they must submit 9 reports to the Comptroller of their activities. 10 If they don't submit them, the Comptroller 11 notifies the municipality under the auspices of 12 which the IDA was created, and then the 13 Comptroller can suspend any tax advantages for 14 that IDA. 15 When you look at the fact that 16 when you're saying when there is a project 17 there's a ten-day notice for the public, when 18 the project is $100,000 there's a hearing. 19 There's a file in the municipality, there's a 20 file in the IDA. We've talked about ethics, 21 everything that was told to us and everything 22 we've read in the news media we have addressed. 23 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 6810 1 Mr. President? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Yes. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir. 4 You have used the phrase just now -- I didn't 5 misunderstand that phrase. You said "tightening 6 up" and you said that what you submitted for 7 consideration as a result of all the information 8 brought to you regarding the hearings, is that 9 correct? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 11 SENATOR WALDON: O.K. Therefore, 12 what you have submitted would truly reflect the 13 needs of all of the people of the state of New 14 York, assuming that they came to you during the 15 hearings to tell you of their needs, is that 16 correct? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator, it 18 is. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Where is the 20 MBE/WBE piece in this bill if that is correct? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: There is no 22 requirement. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Oh, you're 6811 1 saying you can just disregard the women who are 2 - 3 SENATOR LARKIN: No, we have done 4 that. 5 SENATOR WALDON: -- or the 6 African-Americans and Latinos; is that what 7 you're saying, Senator? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: No, Senator, 9 what we're saying is here is a procedure in 10 being. If someone wants to make an application 11 for an IDA project, there is a procedure as I 12 outlined it to Senator Gold before, and read it 13 in detail on page 5, outlining every bit of the 14 procedures that has to be done and what the 15 local municipalities have to do, and they have 16 to comply with executive laws, state laws, 17 executive directives which would cover the 18 portion that you are relating to. 19 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 20 continue, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 22 Waldon. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir. 6812 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, one 2 other thing I think, if you'll read on page 5, 3 equal opportunity is covered exclusively on page 4 5. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Can someone 6 -- are you speaking to page 5 of the memo or 7 page 5 of the bill? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Page 5 of the 9 bill, section 858 (b). I will read it to you, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Please do. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Specifically. 13 Equal employment opportunities. Each agency 14 shall ensure that all employees and applicants 15 for employment are afforded equal employment 16 opportunities without discrimination. 17 SENATOR WALDON: What does that 18 have to do, if I may continue, Mr. President, 19 what does that have to do with set asides? My 20 question dealt with, will there be a WBE 21 component and an MBE/WBE component regarding 22 what is a construction piece? 23 When I was a Commissioner of 6813 1 Investigation for this state and we investigated 2 Roosevelt Raceway where people ripped the state 3 off for enormous sums of money and made promises 4 to the people of Nassau County to deliver 5 certain kinds of services and benefits and 6 immediately ripped them off, there was supposed 7 to be a 20-year arrangement to keep the track 8 for all of those who loved racing to participate 9 and, within four years, gave it up. Blue smoke 10 and mirrors was a small exercise compared to 11 what went down out there. 12 I'm talking about construction, 13 Senator. I'm talking about African-Americans 14 and Caribbean-Americans and Latinos and 15 Hispanics having an opportunity, having an 16 opportunity to benefit from the largesse of the 17 state of New York. Is that in the bill? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, there's 19 no set aside in this bill. Senator, what this 20 bill contains is an opportunity for anyone who 21 wants to use an IDA, for anyone who wants to 22 participate in a free America. This is an 23 opportunity for anyone. There's no exclusions 6814 1 and there's no set asides and there's no 2 preference. Everything that has to do with 3 state law that exists would have to be 4 enforced. 5 If you look at this bill and read 6 it very carefully, Senator, you'll find that the 7 protection of every citizen of this state is 8 there without - 9 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 10 may I continue? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 12 Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate 14 your explanation, Senator, but is this the form 15 of the bill that the Assembly originally 16 considered? Wasn't there an MBE/WBE -- WBE, I'm 17 sorry, component in the bill and if there was, 18 why was it extracted? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, this is 20 an agreed upon bill between the Senate and the 21 Assembly and my original bill did not contain 22 anything that is not in this bill. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 6815 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 2 Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you for 4 that response, Senator, but I don't think you 5 really responded to my question. My question 6 was, was there at any time in the previous 7 version of the bill a WBE-MBE/WBE component? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, in the 9 Assembly bill, there was no phraseology as to 10 what you're discussing. This is the agreed upon 11 bill between the Senate and the Assembly. Maybe 12 the Senate -- the Assembly had some versions of 13 it, but this is the bill that both houses and 14 both leaderships have agreed upon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Last question, 16 if I may, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, 19 considering that we have eighteen and a half 20 million people in this state, considering that a 21 major portion of those eighteen and a half 22 million people are, in fact, traditionally from 23 the African diaspora and Latinos, considering 6816 1 that in the city of New York over 51 percent of 2 the people are now people of color, people from 3 the traditional minority classes, considering 4 that even in a place like Nassau County where 5 Roosevelt Raceway, that canard occurred, 6 wouldn't it benefit all of the people of the 7 state of New York if this bill was sensitive to 8 everyone, each and every one, and had an 9 MBE/WBE-WBE component? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I would 11 hope that you would read this bill and the memo 12 in its true sense that it was put together in 13 both houses. For the past several weeks our 14 staffs have been workin' diligently to come up 15 with a bill that represents the true needs, that 16 eliminates the problem that we've seen in the 17 past. We thought that what we were doing in 18 tightening up the rules, in effect, was 19 protecting all people of the state of New York 20 whether they come from New York City, whether 21 they come from Harlem, whether they come from 22 Niagara Falls, whether they come from Buffalo, 23 regardless of where they come from. 6817 1 Senator, this is a bill that 2 opens up the opportunity, yet closes down the 3 free wheeling and dealing that we've had, that 4 we've seen in the past. This bill is a bill for 5 the people of the state of New York. This bill 6 is a bill to retain jobs and create jobs and 7 make a stable tax base. 8 SENATOR WALDON: On the bill, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 11 Waldon, on the bill. 12 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate 13 your explanation, Senator Larkin, I really do, 14 but when you make the statement, true meaning 15 that does not include me unless there's an 16 opportunity for the people I represent. It 17 cannot include the proportion of this state 18 which happens to be of color, descendants of 19 people from the Caribbean unless there's real 20 opportunity. 21 It is nice, but it is a 22 meaningless shibboleth to say that it has true 23 meaning for all of us when some of us are 6818 1 excluded and I, therefore, cannot support this 2 legislation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 4 Wright. 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 6 on the bill. 7 I would like to take the 8 opportunity to acknowledge Senator Larkin's 9 efforts because I think he's accomplished a very 10 difficult task of achieving the balance that 11 needs to be achieved in terms of ensuring 12 adequate accountability as it relates to the 13 Industrial Development Agencies, ensuring 14 greater public disclosure, but at the same time 15 maintaining appropriate flexibility within the 16 programming of IDA to assist the business and 17 industry of this state. 18 We've spent a good deal of time 19 in the last several weeks on this floor talking 20 about the need to create jobs in this state, the 21 need to provide incentives for business and 22 industry, the need to retain jobs. IDA has the 23 capability if we provide appropriate flexibility 6819 1 to ensure that that happens. 2 Now, at the same time, I think 3 we've all recognized, by virtue of the public 4 hearings, the efforts of Senator Larkin's 5 committee, Senator Cook's committee and their 6 counterparts in the Assembly, that there are 7 areas of greater accountability that need to be 8 addressed. There are areas of greater public 9 disclosure. He has addressed that in this 10 particular bill and achieving that agreement 11 with the Assembly. 12 There are now ethics standards 13 that are applicable to all of the members of the 14 IDA. There are requirements for payments in 15 lieu of tax and timely payments, timely payment 16 of those payments in lieu of tax to the local 17 government units so that they, too, benefit from 18 these incentives. 19 There are workable limitations on 20 retail businesses in this state so that we 21 eliminate competition with existing retail firms 22 and put those incentives toward new retail 23 endeavors targeted in particular areas. So we, 6820 1 in fact, do create job growth; and further, we 2 provide public disclosure of the working 3 relationships within the IDA, disclosure of the 4 relationships with IDA counsel, and reporting on 5 an annual basis to the Comptroller, and equally 6 important in that reporting is the documentation 7 of the job retention and the job creation 8 coupled with evaluation components that we can 9 go back and review the success of what these 10 reforms, in fact, will achieve. 11 I think the Senator and his 12 counterparts in the Assembly -- and I had 13 occasion earlier this evening to sit in on that 14 debate as it was occurring in the Assembly - 15 have achieved the workable balance that we need 16 in this state and, as a result of that, I 17 encourage my colleagues on this floor, the 18 members of the floor, to support the bill. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 23 President. Would Senator Larkin yield, please? 6821 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 2 would you yield? Senator will yield, Senator. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, over 5 the years, I think we've been aware of the 6 failure of the IDA mechanism and, as you pointed 7 out, there were hearings and hearings conducted 8 by Assemblyman Pordum and Senator Cook, various 9 reports were issued critical of the IDAs. I 10 issued a report two years ago pointing out that 11 the IDAs had probably created very few jobs but 12 had spent a great deal of taxpayers' money. 13 One of the areas that I was 14 particularly concerned about were the retail 15 establishments. One of the main things that 16 IDAs have done in many parts of the state was to 17 fund the construction of supermarkets. They did 18 it, in fact, in the capital area, the Price 19 Choppers, and the other ones. 20 To what extent, Senator -- and if 21 you could deal with this question with some 22 specificity -- have we tightened up that abuse 23 of the IDA mechanism? Certainly let me just say 6822 1 I think we'll all agree that, if you put up 2 another supermarket, you're not creating more 3 jobs but all you're doing is probably taking 4 away existing jobs. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I thank 6 you very much, Senator Leichter. I do remember 7 your report and, if you saw the memo in 8 opposition from the Food Merchants Association 9 today - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I didn't. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: -- you will 12 recognize that they're not happy with what we've 13 done in this legislation. We felt in this 14 legislation that, if there is a supermarket in 15 Town A, that's been there for two years, we're 16 not going to let the supermarket come in across 17 the street and get these advantages to the 18 disadvantage of the hard-working owner who has 19 been there before with no advantages. 20 The five first -- the five-point 21 criteria in there we feel is very strong. It 22 substantiates the tax base and it does address 23 the issue that you've covered in your report 6823 1 that we would -- should not just open up the 2 barn door and say, Here's the money and you 3 build what you want. 4 Senator, if you'll read the 5 report by the Food Merchants Association, you 6 will clearly see that the point that you're 7 trying to cover, we covered, and they're not 8 happy with it. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, will 10 you be good enough to yield? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: What are those 13 five points? I really haven't had much time to 14 study the bill, and I'd appreciate your covering 15 that for me. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: We talked about 17 in the tourist area, we talked about in the 18 distressed area, in the border area, we're 19 talking about there, for example, our good 20 friend, Senator Stafford, who has up in 21 Plattsburgh, and the Canadians come down and 22 they can come over from Vermont, that gives you 23 an area of what we were restricting it to, and, 6824 1 for example, I have a city in my district in 2 Newburgh, New York that municipality of 26,000 3 that doesn't have a shopping center, that 4 doesn't have an IDA, a Price Chopper, a Grand 5 Union, they could go into that, Senator. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, who 7 determines whether the criteria has been met? 8 And I see you have a definition of distressed 9 areas and your other limitations. Who is it 10 that passes on whether these limitations are 11 being adhered to because, as you know, one of 12 the problems is the IDAs have been keeping 13 documents of their own, nobody to supervise 14 them. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, that's 16 one of the areas that we tightened up that we'd 17 heard about, as you recall. We said that two 18 things, they would have to get approval of the 19 IDA and the chief executive officer of the 20 municipality to which the project was going to 21 go to. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, 23 they could -- could you repeat that. 6825 1 SENATOR LARKIN: The IDA board 2 would have to approve it and also the chief 3 executive officer of the municipality in which 4 the project was going to be developed. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 6 I question how much of a protection that is 7 because the chief executive, often for various 8 reasons, will be supportive of the IDA effort. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator, 10 but if you will read that portion of the bill 11 where we clearly outline, I can tell you right 12 now and tell you and the rest of my colleagues, 13 that that association is not very happy with the 14 language we put in there, because the language 15 in there restricts their ability to put one - 16 one on one end of a municipality and the other 17 on the other end of a municipality. It has to 18 be a need and requirement and that need and 19 requirement has to be approved by both the IDA 20 and the chief executive officer of the 21 municipality, and I think that that's what you 22 were talking about when you were complaining 23 about the operation of the IDAs in your report, 6826 1 Senator. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I was 3 certainly complaining about it, Senator, but I'm 4 still concerned about the mechanism to make sure 5 that these restrictions and the restrictions 6 seem fairly sensible, are adhered to because the 7 IDA board is the very board that's trying to 8 locate or fund that supermarket. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, let me 10 -- may I interrupt you and read you something. 11 From the bill itself, Senator, this bill limits 12 IDA financing of retail projects to tourist 13 areas, border areas, distressed areas such as 14 inner cities and under-served rural communities 15 where retail services are not reasonably 16 available. Any IDA financing of a retail 17 project within borders, distressed and 18 under-served areas must be confirmed by the 19 chief executive officer of the IDA sponsoring 20 municipality. In addition, it must be shown 21 that these projects will preserve or increase 22 private sector jobs within the state. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right, 6827 1 Senator. We obviously aren't getting very far 2 on the question that I pose to you, so let's 3 move to another area. 4 Senator, there was a problem in 5 Rockland County, I believe, Senator Holland's 6 district, where an IDA board met in a diner and 7 approved a -- a project. Have you set up 8 standards here as to how the IDAs are to conduct 9 their business? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir, we 11 have. I explained it when I was responding to 12 Senator Gold and, Senator, not only that, but we 13 also said that any project within -- within 14 $100,000, within ten days of the application 15 must have a public hearing and all of those 16 records will be available in the office of 17 record which is normally the clerk of the 18 municipality on file. 19 They're a permanent record of 20 that municipality, and if somebody is 21 disheartened or disenchanted, Senator, they show 22 up at that meeting. Senator, I think one of the 23 things you're missing here, one of the things 6828 1 that your side of the aisle kept sayin' over and 2 over again was that we want to tighten it up. 3 We do too, and so does the other house and what 4 we've done is capitalized on the hearings that 5 we've held over the past couple of years, and 6 we've done that. We've done it to the 7 disadvantage of some people who said that we 8 have tightened up too much and we have not 9 allowed the grandiose development. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 11 think the provision for a public hearing is a 12 good one, and -- and makes sense. You had 13 mentioned -- let me just preface my question to 14 you, if you would be kind enough just to yield 15 for one or two more questions. 16 You had mentioned reporting to 17 the Comptroller. One of the big problems we've 18 had with IDAs is, since they give exemptions 19 from state taxes, and Senator Waldon pointed out 20 the large amounts involved over the years, are 21 we now going to be able to maintain a record so 22 we know what the total cost to the state of New 23 York is through all of the IDA projects? 6829 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, a couple 2 things, Senator. One of the things is the IDA 3 investment must comply with the same 4 requirements for any other public authorities. 5 Number two, IDAs must establish a 6 detailed policy for granting exemptions. These 7 are two items that have never been in existence 8 before. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 10 don't think that's really responsive. My 11 question, you know, my questioning goes, we have 12 no record, there's no means to determine how 13 much has been given by the IDA as in tax 14 exemption because there's -- we have over 150 15 IDAs. There was no requirement of central 16 filing. Now, I understood you to say that you 17 will now require filing with the Comptroller; is 18 that correct? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator, 20 that's correct, annual filing with the 21 Comptroller, the Comptroller will have oversight 22 of the filing of every IDA in the state which he 23 didn't have before, and with regard to the tax 6830 1 exemption, if you recognize what I said before, 2 that the Comptroller, if the report is not 3 filed, the Comptroller will notify the IDA and 4 notify the municipality which is the controlling 5 agency of that IDA, and then suspend their tax 6 exemptions. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 8 And, Senator, that filing that's required, will 9 it have in there full information as to the - 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Detailing the 11 entire project, its financing, who gets the tax 12 benefits, how the payment in lieu of taxes will 13 be, Senator, and the distribution of the tax, 14 the PILOTs, payments in lieu of taxes, 15 commensurate with the exemption that's given by 16 the respective political subdivisions. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. Thank 18 you. 19 Senator, let me ask you a 20 question, something I -- that puzzles me and I 21 couldn't understand. There's a reference in 22 your bill to specific cities or maybe they're 23 towns: The town or the city of Auburn, the city 6831 1 of Troy. If you look at page 16, lines 21 and 2 22, why are those municipalities specifically 3 included in the bill, and what's the effect of 4 those provisions? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, if 6 you recall your desire to tighten up these here, 7 these are in being. IDAs previously enacted, in 8 order to make them comply with this, they had to 9 be included in this provision of this law so 10 they will be in full force now rather than be 11 grandfathered to something of the past. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, I 13 must say I -- that answer totally escaped me. 14 You provide, if you'd be kind enough to yield. 15 Bear with me, the hour is late, but you provide 16 in here the authority, and I assume you're 17 referring to the authority of the IDA in Troy to 18 mail or deliver to the chief executive officer 19 and the governing body of the city of Troy, make 20 available for public inspection comments on the 21 proposed budget, and I think there's a similar 22 budget provision in there for Auburn. 23 Why is it necessary to have a 6832 1 provision for those two cities, why need they - 2 why was it important or deemed necessary to 3 mention them specifically? Why wouldn't they be 4 covered by the generic provisions of the bill? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: They are 6 separate entities by themselves and, if we 7 didn't include this language, they would be 8 outside of the requirements of the other IDAs 9 because of the way they were enacted in law. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I see. Thank 11 you. You know, I think Senator Gold made some 12 good points. I think Senator Waldon made some 13 good points. Senator Larkin, I appreciate that 14 there is some tightening up. I wish you had 15 gone further. I think the Assembly wanted to go 16 further. This has been a scandal. It's -- it's 17 been a scandal because it's wasted public 18 funds. It's been a sore because of outrageous 19 conflicts of interest where the developer 20 chooses the bond counsel, where the bond counsel 21 in some instances turns out to be the town 22 attorney, where much of the development of the 23 projects funded by IDA were supermarket retail 6833 1 establishments; they created no jobs 2 whatsoever. 3 Senator Gold has done a masterful 4 job in detailing the scandal with Roosevelt 5 Raceway and, yes, you've tightened up some of 6 the provisions. They're certainly improvements 7 but, Senator, I think we really needed it to go 8 much further. I'm not saying that you just put 9 a Band-aid on a cancer, but I'm not so sure that 10 you've really got rid of the malignancy of the 11 IDAs. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 13 Masiello. 14 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you. 15 Senator, would you yield to a question or two? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 17 would you yield? Senator will yield. 18 SENATOR MASIELLO: Senator 19 Larkin, I missed some of the debate and maybe 20 this is redundant. But I have a couple of 21 questions to ask of you. 22 Senate 5705-B restricted IDA 23 financing for stadiums, arenas and other 6834 1 government projects. Does the "C" version do 2 the same and have the same restrictions? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: No. No, it does 4 not, Senator. 5 SENATOR MASIELLO: No, it does 6 not. In other words, you could use IDA 7 financing for those kinds of projects in a 8 municipality? 9 SENATOR LARKIN: In your home 10 town, Senator, if you go back there, you'll be 11 able to participate. 12 SENATOR MASIELLO: How about your 13 home town? 14 SENATOR LARKIN: I'd be glad to, 15 Senator. 16 SENATOR MASIELLO: What about IDA 17 financing for hospital facilities? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: The hospital 19 piece, Senator, we wanted to continued in the 20 hospital piece, but the other house would not 21 allow it. They feel that the hospital 22 expansion, and they take on the hospital in two 23 versions; one is the hospital itself and the 6835 1 other is the external parts of the hospital, 2 offices and what not. 3 Ours has a window here for -- for 4 the 60-day period if they've got their part of 5 it in. With what the hospitals alone were 6 saying and your other house was saying that 7 hospitals have a vehicle to construct additions 8 to their facilities under the Health Care 9 Financing Agency and that should be the proper 10 vehicle. 11 The loans, the amount of loans 12 and the extended period of time are most 13 appropriate. 14 SENATOR MASIELLO: So it does 15 restrict hospitals? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 17 SENATOR MASIELLO: You can't - 18 you can't finance hospitals under this bill? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: The existing law 20 remains in place, Senator. The original bill 21 that you were talkin' about, we had -- we, on 22 this -- in this house wanted to expand the 23 opportunity under IDAs for hospitals and the 6836 1 Assembly did not concur, no, therefore, we're 2 using the existing policy. 3 SENATOR MASIELLO: What about 4 local decision-making, is there a role for local 5 addition-making in this? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator, if 7 you have a project that has a $100,000 price tag 8 ten days from the application of the project, 9 there's a public hearing. There's a public 10 input. I think you have to go back, Senator, 11 just a little bit further that, when you look at 12 an IDA, an IDA's operating budget is scrutinized 13 by the municipality - 14 SENATOR MASIELLO: There isn't - 15 Senator, there is no requirement for local 16 input. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: I disagree with 18 you, Senator. I just said that there is. If 19 you make an application and that project is 20 $100,000, there's a public hearing and the 21 public will be given the opportunity to voice 22 their concerns pro or con of that specific 23 project. 6837 1 SENATOR MASIELLO: Does the IDA 2 -- do they have to take the local inputs? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 4 SENATOR MASIELLO: They have to. 5 There is a provision there? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, there is, 7 Senator. 8 Senator, on page 10, lines - 9 starting at line 6 and 7. 10 SENATOR MASIELLO: What page? 11 Sorry. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Page 10, 13 Senator. 14 SENATOR MASIELLO: O.K. It's 12, 15 Senator, line 12, Senator. Demonstrated public 16 support for the proposed project, and it spells 17 out all the amenities that are peertinent to a 18 project. 19 SENATOR MASIELLO: One further 20 question, Senator. 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 22 SENATOR MASIELLO: What about the 23 ability of IDAs to finance aged facilities, 6838 1 senior citizen homes? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: We didn't change 3 the law. On our original print of this in the 4 Senate, that was in there and the other house 5 would not agree to that, so it had to be 6 removed, so that portion is the same as existing 7 law. 8 SENATOR MASIELLO: So it's not in 9 here. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, we 11 wanted it in. We could not get agreement with 12 the other house and, in order to do this, that 13 portion was deleted, and we're back to where 14 we've been for the last number of years. 15 SENATOR MASIELLO: Thank you. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very 17 much, Senator. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 19 Galiber. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator Larkin, 21 will you yield for a question or two? 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, I came 6839 1 in late on this piece of legislation but you've 2 often heard me mention about my reapportionment 3 dilemma. Part of the new government that I 4 represent is in Mount Vernon and - 5 SENATOR LARKIN: You mean with 6 your colleague, Senator Velella. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: With my good 8 colleague, Senator Velella. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: I received a 11 note from the mayor of the city of Mount Vernon 12 and I've voted against these IDAs as before for 13 a whole slew of reasons historically, because in 14 Bronx County, that's another part of my 15 district, things weren't happening, they just 16 use these IDAs in certain select areas. We were 17 concerned about it. We voted against it, not 18 because it was not a good concept, it was just a 19 parochial concept that it touched and concerned 20 very influential people in certain areas. 21 What I'd like to know, Senator, 22 is I believe the note said - 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Go ahead, 6840 1 Senator. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: I believe that 3 the note said, Senator, you're new in Mount 4 Vernon, but if this piece of legislation that 5 your good colleague Larkin, Senator Larkin, 6 passes, that Mount Vernon would be hurt pretty 7 badly by it. I'm asking you because I don't 8 know as to what -- how would this bill, if it 9 passes, you certainly are going to have the 10 numbers here, impact on my new district, the 11 30,000 people in Mount Vernon that I share with 12 Senator Velella. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Your concerns 14 have been expressed to me and my colleagues 15 working on the bill by Senator Velella and 16 Senator Spano. You have a project that they're 17 talkin' about in the city of Mount Vernon. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: That's it. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: They anticipate 20 that this project will be up on board within 30 21 to 40 days. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Yeah. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: The provisions 6841 1 of the bill that we're talking about is that 2 they'll have a window of opportunity of 60 days 3 after the bill is signed into law. We don't 4 know when the Governor will sign it, but if they 5 have the inducement resolution and the 6 application, they're home free, Senator. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: It's that 8 inducement resolution that gets me concerned. 9 Did you get that down? 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Larkin, 11 will you yield to one question? 12 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't play 13 golf, Senator. 14 SENATOR GOLD: You don't do a lot 15 of things, but will you yield to one question? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, under 18 this bill, could IDA funding be used to build, 19 let's say, a sports facility? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it can, 21 Senator. 22 SENATOR GOLD: So, Senator 23 Larkin, if I can understand Senator Masiello's 6842 1 concerns, if this becomes law, we could not 2 build a hospital that would operate 365 days a 3 year, employ people 365 days a year, but this is 4 just as a wild example, they could give $150,000 5 or more of IDA money to build a tennis stadium, 6 is that right? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator, 8 that's true. We would have loved to have the 9 hospitals in here, but your colleagues in the 10 other house did not see fit to continue to 11 include hospitals. 12 SENATOR GOLD: I see. So, 13 therefore, you basically failed in that part of 14 the negotiation. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't think we 16 failed in that, Senator. We maintained the 17 opportunity for them to use funding under the 18 Health Facilities Finance Agency to do the same 19 thing with the same rate of interest and funds 20 there are available because, don't forget, 21 Senator, that when they're going to build that 22 hospital, they're going to have to deal with the 23 Department of Health, when they need that 6843 1 certificate of need and when they need that 2 Article 28 action, that will all be covered in 3 that and provide the same funding. 4 Read the last section. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 38. This 8 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 9 shall have become a law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 1, 14 Senator Waldon recorded in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: 1442, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 20 will read 1442. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1442, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 23 5520-A, an act to allow certain persons to 6844 1 obtain retroactive membership in Tier I. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 3, 11 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 12 the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1443, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Calendar 19 1443, the Secretary shall read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1443, by 21 Senator Stachowski, Senate Bill Number 5777-A, 22 in relation to permitting George R. Blair, a 23 member of the - 6845 1 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 3, 10 Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in 11 the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 13 Stachowski, your bill is passed. 14 Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1447, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Calendar 18 1447. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1447, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 6016, 21 authorize the city of Port Jervis to discontinue 22 the use of certain portion of a street. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Home rule 6846 1 message at the desk. Last section, please. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1448, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 14 will read Calendar 1448. 15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 16 DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 6017, authorize 17 Steven Kenyon to transfer credit. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 20 DeFrancisco, Senator Gold has requested an 21 explanation. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 23 can't give any greater explanation than is in 6847 1 the memo. There's no other information to 2 provide. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Let's hear it. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's New 5 York State Assembly memorandum in support of 6 legislation submitted in accordance with 7 Assembly Rule 1, section (e). There is a check 8 mark on original draft of bill and then after 9 that, it's memo on amended bill, but that's not 10 checked. Bill Number Assembly is blank, Senate 11 is blank. Sponsor is member of Assembly 12 Christensen, Senator is DeFrancisco. Title of 13 bill, capitalized and underlined, an act to 14 authorize Steven Kenyon to transfer credit 15 earned in the New York State Teachers' 16 Retirement System to the New York State and 17 Local Employees' Retirement System. 18 The purpose or general idea of 19 the bill, this bill would allow Steven Kenyon, 20 who was a member of the New York State Teachers' 21 Retirement System from September 1, 1972 to 22 January 31, 1975, to transfer service credit to 23 the New York State and Local Employees' 6848 1 Retirement System, in which Mr. Kenyon has held 2 membership since February 2, 1972. 3 Summary of the specific 4 provisions is blank, because it's very well 5 spelled out in the bill. Justification: Mr. 6 Kenyon's request to transfer service credit is 7 rejected by the New York State Teachers' 8 Retirement System because they claim he failed 9 to respond to their offer within the required 10 time period. Mr. Kenyon had changed address and 11 never received the offer. This bill is needed 12 to allow Mr. Kenyon to transfer the credit he 13 has earned. 14 Prior legislative history: None. 15 Fiscal implications: None. Effective date: This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Will you yield to 21 a question, Senator? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Will you 23 yield, Senator? 6849 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 3 will yield. Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I 5 appreciate your reading the memo. Mayor 6 LaGuardia would have been proud of you. But can 7 I ask you something where it says this bill's 8 fiscal implications. There's a blank, I think, 9 on the Assembly memo but there must be fiscal 10 implications. Can you tell us what they are? 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, I 12 can't. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, 14 I've got a note here, I don't know where it came 15 from, but it indicates it's $76,000 and the cost 16 will be borne by the state and the employeers 17 and ERS. I mean is there -- why, if the man did 18 not take advantage of the opportunity, do you 19 know how many other people didn't take advantage 20 because they changed their address or for some 21 reason didn't do it? 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 23 know the answer, but in this particular case 6850 1 apparently it was proven that he never received 2 the offer in the mail, and to resolve this 3 inequity, this bill was requested by a member of 4 the Assembly, and I agreed to co-sponsor it. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will the 6 Senator yield to a question? Senator, you say it 7 was proven. There is nothing in this memo that 8 says it was proven at all. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse 10 me? 11 SENATOR GOLD: In the memo it 12 says the Teachers' Retirement System rejected 13 his claim because he failed to respond. 14 Apparently he says he moved and never got the 15 offer but nothing was proven. Why -- I mean why 16 do we become an appellate court to this system 17 which apparently gave him a hearing and 18 determined after a hearing that he wasn't 19 entitled? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, it's 21 basically the same reason that we just passed 22 Senator Stachowski's bill, a very similar 23 situation I believe, but for those reasons, 6851 1 obviously there's a fiscal impact and the note 2 is on the bill. If that fiscal impact causes 3 you a problem, you certainly can vote in the 4 negative, as you have on every one of these 5 bills, to be consistent. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Well, 7 Senator, first of all, on the bill, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 10 Gold, on the bill. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 12 don't think it's any secret that I think this is 13 a terrible procedure, and I don't think it's any 14 secret that I have commended Senator Trunzo for 15 his work in trying to change the system, and I 16 understand there now is some kind of an 17 agreement which I think is a better way of doing 18 it than having the Governor just veto all of 19 these bills. 20 But just so I can explain to 21 Senator DeFrancisco, who I understand is young 22 in this chamber, Senator, there is -- there are 23 differences in some of these bills. Everybody 6852 1 would love to get in on the same gravy train, 2 Senator, but there are differences. I don't 3 think that your gentleman here is in the same 4 predicament as some of the ladies who had 5 pregnancy problems and in those days were not 6 getting pregnancy leave but were getting laid 7 off, and now in a more enlightened time frame we 8 are trying to make up for that. I don't think 9 that you're claiming that what's his name now, 10 yeah, you're not claiming that Steven Kenyon was 11 pregnant, particularly not pregnant beyond his 12 control. 13 The fact is, Senator, that I 14 don't like these bills, but I think some of them 15 are more outrageous than others. In this 16 particular case, Senator, apparently the man had 17 a hearing. Now, at that hearing, if he had the 18 process, I assume that the reason he had the 19 hearing was that they had authority to give him 20 relief had they believed that he was entitled to 21 relief. That, I think, is a different case, 22 Senator DeFrancisco, and maybe that's why some 23 of the Senators over here do not appreciate the 6853 1 tone of your explanation and have suggested a 2 slow roll call. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: Slow roll call. 7 THE SECRETARY: This act shall 8 take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Slow roll 10 call has been requested. Please ring the 11 bells. All Senators please return to the 12 floor. There will be a slow roll call. 13 The Secretary will begin calling 14 the roll slowly. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 16 excused. 17 Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 20 (There was no audible response. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 22 Connor, will you repeat your vote, please. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Aye. 6854 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 2 Connor in the affirmative. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Daly. 6 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Like to 10 explain my vote. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 12 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I 14 understand that I may have youth on some 15 Senators here, and they believe that wisdom 16 comes with age, but apparently by this slow roll 17 call, that obviously disproves that particular 18 premise. There's nothing in this bill that's 19 very offensive to anyone. It's a bill like many 20 others that have been passed even today, and to 21 request information further than was on the memo 22 and to ask the memo to be read, I don't think 23 shows any great wisdom. 6855 1 So I'm going to vote in the 2 affirmative on this bill as I will on other 3 bills sponsored, whether it's either by the 4 Majority or Minority, Senator, and I would hope 5 also, as Senator Gold has said, that there will 6 be a procedure established some time so that 7 there will be a process that all of these can be 8 accomplished outside of this system. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Continue 10 you the roll call. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 15 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Gonzalez. 6856 1 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Halperin. 6 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 8 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Hoffmann. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Holland. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 17 SENATOR JONES: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 6857 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 6 to explain my vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 8 Leichter, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 10 I heard some references here to wisdom. I 11 question how much wisdom there is that, when a 12 member gets up and asks questions about a bill, 13 he's treated with somewhat contemptuous answers 14 and we can have slow roll calls or debates, but 15 I think that there's a general level of courtesy 16 that usually prevails in this house. 17 I think Senator Gold has had a 18 very consistent policy on this and an honest 19 policy. He's entitled to get answers. His 20 questions were not offensive. His questions 21 were not frivolous. His questions went to the 22 heart of this bill and his concern over a 23 policy, and I think he's entitled to receive 6858 1 courteous answers and answers that are - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Excuse 3 me, Senator Leichter. Can we have some quiet in 4 the chamber, please. Stenographer has to take 5 the minutes of our proceedings and we are in 6 session. There's a roll call and Senator 7 Leichter is explaining his vote. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. And 9 I think he's entitled to receive answers and not 10 be treated as if his questions are somewhat 11 offensive or an infringement or trespass on what 12 a member's right is to pass any sort of a bill 13 without even seeking to understand -- without 14 even being able to understand it or seeking to 15 explain it. 16 So, Mr. President, I'm sorry that 17 there needs to be a slow roll call on this to 18 make a point, but I think hopefully the point 19 has been understood. 20 Mr. President, I vote in the 21 negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 23 Leichter in the negative. Continue the roll 6859 1 call. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 11 (Affirmative indication. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 13 Senator Markowitz. 14 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: To explain my 15 vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 17 Markowitz. 18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you 19 very much, Mr. President. 20 The first question I have, is 21 that Senator Trunzo over there? Great, great. I 22 think I need my glasses, I'm not sure. He must 23 be losin' weight. 6860 1 I'm not so sure Senator Trunzo is 2 going to be appreciative of those comments. 3 Senator DeFrancisco, I have a question to ask if 4 I may. Are we debating a bill of more than two 5 million tenants that are being held hostage 6 tonight, is that the bill we're debating right 7 now? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: No, 9 excuse me, Senator Markowitz. 10 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Is that the 11 bill we're debating tonight? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 13 Markowitz. 14 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No, I'm 15 asking you, is that what we're voting on at the 16 moment? It's a point of information. What are 17 we voting on? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 19 Markowitz, you may pass your remarks through the 20 Chair and, if you really don't know what we're 21 voting on, be happy to tell you. 22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I'd be happy 23 to hear what we are voting on at a quarter to 6861 1 12:00 almost. What are we voting on? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: We're 3 voting on 1448, by Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No, I 5 understand that, but what is the bill about? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Sorry, 7 Senator Markowitz, if you were not in the 8 chamber. 9 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I have a 10 right to ask a question. What is the bill 11 about? Do I have a right to ask what the bill is 12 about? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: You may 14 explain your vote for about another ten 15 seconds. 16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator, I'm 17 just asking what is the bill about? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator, we're 19 in a roll call. You have your two minutes to 20 explain your vote. We've gone beyond the debate 21 period. 22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I see. All 23 right, Senator. I -- the reason why I ask this 6862 1 is obviously I do know what it's about, but it 2 just seems ludicrous to me that we're discussing 3 this bill which is important to this one 4 individual of 16 million in the state of New 5 York when millions of tenants are holding their 6 breath at almost a quarter to 12:00. 7 I vote yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Continue 9 the roll call. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Masiello. 12 SENATOR MASIELLO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mega. 14 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 16 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Montgomery. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Nozzolio. 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 6863 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Ohrenstein. 3 (Affirmative indication. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 5 Senator Onorato. 6 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Oppenheimer. Senator Oppenheimer. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh, yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 13 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Santiago. 23 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 6864 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 2 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 4 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sheffer. 6 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 12 Senator Solomon. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 15 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Stafford. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Stavisky. 6865 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 3 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 5 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 7 Tully to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR TULLY: I'm privileged to 9 vote with Senator DeFrancisco in support of this 10 resident of his community as I was previously 11 privileged to join with Senator Markowitz in 12 voting for the local bill for the resident of 13 Senator Stachowski's in Calendar 1443. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Continue 15 the roll call. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes. 6866 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: 2 Absentees. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 4 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Hoffmann. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Maltese. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Paterson. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 3. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's stand at 20 ease for a moment. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The 22 Senate will stand at ease. 23 (Whereupon the Senate stood at 6867 1 ease. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senate 3 will come to order. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 6 Calendar -- no, I've just changed my mind. 7 Continue to stand at ease. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: We're 9 still going to stand at ease. 10 Senate will come to order. 11 Senator Present, could we return to a message 12 from the Assembly? 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Please do it. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Messages 15 from the Assembly. We received a message from 16 the Assembly which the Secretary shall read. 17 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly 18 transmits the following bill, by the Assembly 19 Committee on Rules: Assembly Bill Number 8784, 20 an act to amend Chapter 576 of the Laws of 1974, 21 amending the Emergency Housing Rent Control 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 6868 1 Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Can we 5 move the bill directly to third reading, Senator 6 Present? 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Please do it. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Without 9 objection, the bill will go directly to third 10 reading. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 12 message of necessity at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: There is 14 a message of necessity at the desk. On the 15 motion of Senator Present to accept the message 16 of necessity, all those in favor say aye. 17 ((Response of "Aye.") 18 Contrary nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The message is accepted. Last 21 section. 22 SENATOR GOLD: No, hold it, Mr. 23 President. 6869 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 5 it's ten minutes to 12:00 and I don't intend on 6 my part to have any unreasonable delay, but 7 Senator Connor said something just now which was 8 quite extraordinary. He said, quotes, "Why 9 doesn't somebody just tell us what the bill is?" 10 I think that's a good idea. It 11 can be done in a minute or two minutes. I don't 12 want anybody suggesting that I am delaying this, 13 but I think there are people here who'd like to 14 know in a minute and a half or two minutes, what 15 the bill is. I think that's appropriate and then 16 we are prepared to vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 18 Present. 19 Senator Present, on the Assembly 20 bill, Senator Gold has requested an 21 explanation. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 I'm going to ask we stand at ease for a moment. 6870 1 We've got something pending. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 3 Gold, we'll stand at ease for a moment. I - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 8 know it's too complicated for anyone else, but 9 I've looked at the bill and it appears to change 10 the first of July to the 7th of July and -- and 11 I -- Senator Hannon, I certainly will give him 12 that courtesy. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 14 Hannon. 15 SENATOR HANNON: In these few 16 minutes before 12:00 we've been handed a bill 17 from the Assembly which would extend for six 18 days, three basic statutes which would otherwise 19 expire at midnight. Those would be the rent 20 regulation laws, the laws on excess medical 21 malpractice and the laws on the banking 22 deregulation that have been part of the laws of 23 this state since 1981. 6871 1 This extraordinary message has 2 been handed to us because we have no other 3 alternative since that's the only bill that we 4 received a message on. It's the only bill that 5 has passed in the Senate and in the Assembly and 6 we're taking it up as a hand-down. There is a 7 deep-seated unhappiness on my part, and I'm sure 8 it's shared by the other members of this house 9 who have the responsibility for discussing these 10 issues, but essentially in the 24 hours since we 11 last extended this, there has not only been no 12 movement in regard to rent regulation, but 13 apparently all of the banking laws, the home 14 equity loans, other loans, mortgages in this 15 state, along with the physicians who rely on 16 this malpractice insurance have been held up, so 17 that the basic proposition of trying to protect 18 wealthy tenants will be protected and we're left 19 with this position. 20 It's my belief that, instead of 21 extending this session and prolonging the agony, 22 that we would be able to take the legislative 23 process, have it work, come up with something 6872 1 that will not take a full six days and would 2 fully expect to have that period shortened. 3 There is no other alternative but to pass this 4 bill tonight. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 6 Marino. 7 SENATOR MARINO: Senator, would 8 you yield, please. 9 We're very short on time. I 10 would appreciate this chamber passing this bill 11 in the next minute or two so that the Governor, 12 who awaits, can sign the bill and we can know we 13 have an extension of three of the very important 14 bills that we have to pass this session. 15 I've just talked to the Speaker 16 and we've agreed that with -- with some progress 17 tomorrow, we can -- we can shorten the period 18 from six days to something in the order of three 19 days. So we -- we have agreed on a shorter 20 period of time, but I'd ask you now to pass this 21 bill because it's live. 22 Thank you. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6873 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 Senator Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, I'd like to just be recorded in the 11 negative on these bills. My position on the 12 extension of all of these bills is reasonably 13 well known. I've talked on the rent control 14 bill. 15 I just have one thing to add. I 16 know we're negotiating hard; I know there are 17 negotiations, but the message is that 18 brinksmanship does not a good government make. 19 I vote in the negative as a 20 protest. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Dollinger 22 votes nay. 23 (A demonstration-singing started 6874 1 in the galleries.) 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I move that we adjourn. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands 6 adjourned to the call of the Chair. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: 1:30 tomorrow. 8 THE PRESIDENT: 'Til 1:30 9 tomorrow afternoon. 10 (Whereupon, at 11:58 p.m., the 11 Senate adjourned. ) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18