Saturday, July 3, 1993

6928 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 July 3, 1993 11 3:00 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 6929 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. I'd like to ask everyone present 4 to rise and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance with 5 me. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 Please be seated. 9 In the absence of clergy, may we 10 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 11 (A moment of silence was 12 observed.) 13 Secretary will read the Journal. 14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 15 Friday, July 2nd. The Senate met pursuant to 16 adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, July 1st, 17 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 18 adjourned. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Without - 20 hearing no objection, the Journal stands 21 approved as read. 22 Presentation of petitions. 23 Messages from the Assembly. 6930 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 5 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 6 following bills directly for third reading: 7 Senate Bill Number 1809-A, by 8 Senator Goodman, an act to amend the Vehicle and 9 Traffic Law; 10 1885, by Senator Spano, an act to 11 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 12 2230, by Senator Velella, an act 13 to amend the Insurance Law; 14 3436-B, by Senator Montgomery, 15 authorizing the Commissioner of General Services 16 to lease to not-for-profit organizations; 17 3654, by Senator Johnson, an act 18 to amend the Tax Law; 19 4022, by Senator Sheffer, New 20 York State Archives Partnership Trust Act; 21 407 -- 4047-B, by Senator Sears, 22 Criminal Procedure Law; 23 4132-B, by Senator Sheffer, to 6931 1 create a council known as the New York State 2 Quality Council; 3 4221-A, by Senator Goodman, 4 amends Chapter 746 of the Laws of 1988; 5 4906-C, by Senator Goodman, 6 Public Authorities Law; 7 4986-A, by Senator Velella, an 8 act to amend the Insurance Law; 9 5133-A, by Senator Farley, an act 10 to amend the Tax Law; 11 5264-A, by Senator Cook, an act 12 to amend the Public Health Law; 13 5671, by Senator Trunzo, 14 Administrative Code of the city of New York; 15 5885-B, by Senator Trunzo, 16 Retirement and Social Security Law; 17 5976, by Senator Johnson, 18 Environmental Conservation Law; 19 6005, by Senator Goodman, an act 20 to amend the General Business Law; 21 6036, by Senator Daly, Public 22 Authorities Law; 23 6068, by Senator Marchi, 6932 1 Environmental Conservation Law; 2 And Senate Bill Number 6114, by 3 Senator Trunzo, an act to amend the Executive 4 Law; 5 Also Senate Bill Number 6142, by 6 the Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 7 Executive Law. 8 All bills reported directly for 9 third reading. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Third reading. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 I believe Senator Marino has a privileged 14 resolution at the desk and Senator Marino has 15 said that anyone who wants to be an additional 16 sponsor of this may. May we have the title read 17 and have it acted upon? 18 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 19 read the title. 20 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 21 Resolution, by Senators Marino, Hannon, LaValle, 22 Johnson and Skelos: Congratulating the New York 23 Islanders Hockey team upon the occasion of 6933 1 winning the 1993 Lester Padgett Division 2 Championship and in recognition of their 3 outstanding play and courageous effort during 4 the National Hockey League season and Wales 5 Conference Play-offs. 6 THE PRESIDENT: On the 7 resolution, all those in favor say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The ayes have it. If there are 12 any Senators who want to be sponsors, look for 13 the sponsors. 14 Communications and reports from 15 state officers. 16 Motions and resolutions. 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 On page 12, I offer the following 21 amendments to Calendar Number 625, Senate Print 22 Number 3815-D and ask that said bill retain its 23 place on Third Reading Calendar. 6934 1 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: And, Mr. 3 President, on behalf of Senator Daly, on page 4 30, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 5 Number 1358, Print Number 1092-A, and ask that 6 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading 7 Calendar. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Without 9 objection, so ordered. 10 Are there other motions or 11 resolutions? 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 can we take up the non-controversial calendar, 15 please. 16 THE PRESIDENT: First the 17 Secretary will read some - 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 36, 19 Senator Hannon moves to discharge the Committee 20 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7012-A and 21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 22 1473. 23 On page 37, Senator Marino moves 6935 1 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 2 Assembly Bill Number 8654 and substitute it for 3 the identical Third Reading 1478. 4 On page 38, Senator Jones moves 5 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 6 Assembly Bill Number 4080, and substitute it for 7 the identical Third Reading 1485. 8 Also on page 38, Senator LaValle 9 moves to discharge the Committee on Local 10 Government from Assembly Bill Number 4101 and 11 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 12 1486. 13 On page 38, Senator Padavan moves 14 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 6103-B and substitute it 16 for the identical Third Reading 1487. 17 Page 38, Senator Maltese moves to 18 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 19 Bill Number 5793-A and substitute it for the 20 identical Third Reading 1488. 21 On page 39, Senator Nolan moves 22 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 23 Assembly Bill Number 6693-A and substitute it 6936 1 for the identical Third Reading 1490. 2 On page 39, Senator Velella moves 3 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 4 Assembly Bill Number 8591, and substitute it for 5 the identical Third Reading 1493. 6 On page 39, Senator Skelos moves 7 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 8 Assembly Bill Number 7875-B and substitute it 9 for the identical Third Reading 1495. 10 Also on page 39, Senator Skelos 11 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 12 Assembly Bill Number 6359-B and substitute it 13 for the identical Third Reading 1496. 14 On page 39, Senator Trunzo moves 15 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 16 Assembly Bill Number 8040 and substitute it for 17 the identical Third Reading 1497. 18 On page 40, Senator Mega moves to 19 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 20 Bill Number 8414-A and substitute it for the 21 identical Third Reading 1500. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Substitutions 23 ordered. 6937 1 And now we will take up the 2 non-controversial calendar. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 4 of 4 today's calendar, Calendar Number 62, by Senator 5 Levy, Senate Bill Number 80-A, an act to amend 6 the Transportation Law, the Education Law and 7 the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 211, by member of the Assembly Jacobs, Assembly 13 Bill Number 4858-A, an act to amend the Social 14 Services Law. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6938 1 261, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 2 3156-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 271, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 10 1539-A, an act to amend the Executive Law. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 287, by Senator Tully. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 23 aside. 6939 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 324, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 3 880-A, an act to amend the Tax Law and the 4 Insurance Law. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 395, by member of the Assembly - 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 11 the day, please. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 13 aside for the day. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 434, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 16 3722-B, an act to amend the Education Law and 17 the State Finance Law. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 6940 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 441, by member of the Assembly Jacobs, Assembly 5 Bill Number 5432-A, an act to amend the Tax 6 Law. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 814, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 17 Assembly Bill Number 8059, an act to amend the 18 Education Law. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Last - 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6941 1 859, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 2 3401-B, Civil Practice Law and Rules. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40, nays 9 two, Senators DeFrancisco and Pataki recorded in 10 the negative. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 12 passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 919, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 15 4215-B, an act to amend the Tax Law. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 6942 1 Oh, that bill is passed. Senator 2 Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 4 President. May I just request the clerk, when 5 we skip a page or so, if he would mention the 6 page before reading the bill number, it would be 7 easier to follow. Thank you. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1073, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 10 3172, an act to amend the Tax Law. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1079, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 16 3931-A, an act to amend the Public Authorities 17 Law. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 6943 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1200. 5 THE PRESIDENT: This is on page 6 26. 7 THE SECRETARY: By member of the 8 Assembly Parment, Assembly Bill Number 4803-A, 9 Alcoholic Beverage Control Law. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1220, by Senator - 20 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6944 1 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill - 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 3 the day, please. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside for the day. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 5853-A, an act to amend the General 9 Municipal Law. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1262, by Senator Johnson. 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay aside for 16 the day. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 18 aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1306, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 21 2020-B, Mental Hygiene Law. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6945 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6 passed. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Again, would 8 you lay that bill aside, please, reconsider. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Motion to 10 reconsider the vote. On the motion, all those 11 in favor say aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The ayes have it. The bill is 16 laid aside. That's 1306? 17 THE SECRETARY: Right. 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: What page was 19 that on? 20 THE PRESIDENT: It was on page 21 28. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1322, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 723-B, 6946 1 amends Chapter 629 of the Laws of 1986. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1331, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 12 4446-A, an act to determine the date of birth of 13 Elaine Budoff. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1338, by Senator Hannon. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 21 aside. I'd like to ask for order in the chamber 22 please. Hard to hear when you're up here and 23 everybody is talking. 6947 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1344, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3 5922-A, Public Authorities Law, in relation to 4 the Buffalo Sewer Authority. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 12 passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1371. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside, 16 please. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1386, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 21 5303, an act to amend the Insurance Law, the Tax 22 Law and the Administrative Code of the city of 23 New York. 6948 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: Lay aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1389, by Senator Pataki. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 8 aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1416, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 4757 11 B, an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1423, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Bill Number 5702-A, amends Chapter 879 of the 18 Laws of 1936. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1431, by the Senate Committee on Rules. 6949 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1444, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 5985, 6 Uniform City Court Act. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. Lay 8 it aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1449, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 6018, 13 New York State Urban Development Corporation 14 Act. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside, 16 please. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1455, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 21 6055-A, amends Chapter 994 of the Laws of 1984. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6950 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6 passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1458, by Senator Connor, Senate Bill Number 597, 9 to allow Maryellen V. Adinolfi to file a request 10 for Tier I. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43, nays 17 two, Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 18 negative. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1463, by member of the Assembly Pheffer, 23 Assembly Bill Number 1019, an act to amend the 6951 1 Tax Law. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1464, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 5333-A, Social Services Law. 9 THE PRESIDENT: There is a local 10 fiscal impact note at the desk. Last section. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1465, by member of the Assembly Brodsky, 16 Assembly Bill Number 5673-A, Local Finance Law. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1469, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Bill Number -- Assembly Bill Number 8418, 23 Estates, Powers and Trusts - 6952 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Lay the bill 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1472, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 6 5979, an act to amend the Tax Law and the Labor 7 Law. 8 THE PRESIDENT: There is a local 9 fiscal impact note at the desk. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1474, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 15 Assembly Bill Number 8663, an act to amend the 16 Executive Law. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1476, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 22 6037, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last - 6953 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1477, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 6 6044-A, an act to amend the Election Law. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1478, substituted earlier today, by member -- by 12 the Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 13 Number 8654, Retirement and Social Security 14 Law. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1479, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Bill Number 6060, to provide service credit in 21 New York State Teachers' Retirement. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 6954 1 aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1480, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4 6062-A, require the Office of Alcoholism and 5 Substance Abuse Services. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Once again, the 7 Chair would request that those persons in the 8 chamber who must converse please retire from the 9 chamber. It is impossible for me to hear 10 whether there is an objection to a bill or 11 whether it's just general conversation when the 12 noise level rises to that crescendo. 13 Last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1483, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Bill Number 23 1588, authorizing the city of New York to 6955 1 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 2 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 3 rule message at the desk. Last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1484, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 13 2268, to allow James R. Cummings, Town Justice 14 of town of Providence, Saratoga County, to 15 obtain retroactive membership in Tier II. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43, nays 2, 22 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 23 negative. 6956 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1485, substituted earlier today, by member of 5 the Assembly Johnson, Assembly Bill Number 4080, 6 amends Chapter 928 of the Laws of 1966. 7 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 8 rule message at the desk. Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1486, substituted earlier today, by member of 18 the Assembly Tonko, Assembly Bill Number 4101, 19 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6957 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1487, substituted earlier today, by member of 7 the Assembly Diaz, Assembly Bill Number 6103-B, 8 General City Law. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay that 10 aside. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1488, substituted earlier today, by member of 15 the Assembly Pheffer, Assembly Bill Number 16 5793-A, Civil Rights Law. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6958 1 passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1489, by Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1490, substituted earlier today, by member of 9 the Assembly Faso, to establish a library 10 district in the town of Coeymans. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1491, by Senator Tully, Senate - 21 THE PRESIDENT: Did somebody want 22 to lay it aside? 23 SENATOR PRESENT: For the day. 6959 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 2 aside for the day. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1492, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 4624, 5 to allow James J. Spero retroactive membership 6 in Tier I. 7 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 8 rule message at the desk. Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43, nays 14 two, Senators Gold and Galiber recorded in the 15 negative -- Gold and Leichter, excuse me, 16 recorded in the negative. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1493, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 21 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8591, 22 an act to amend the Insurance Law. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6960 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1495, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7875-B, 7 an act to amend the Penal Law. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1496, substituted earlier today, by member of 13 the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number 14 6359-B, an act to amend the Family Court Act. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6961 1 1497, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 2 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8040, 3 Education Law. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. May I be 11 excused from voting on this bill, please. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Without 13 objection, so ordered. 14 Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1498, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 21 5608-A, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2 - 6962 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1499, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 9 5652, Real Property Tax Law. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 19 like to explain my vote on this bill. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Johnson 21 is recognized to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: This -- this 23 bill really gives us a rare privilege and that 6963 1 is to begin a quiet revolution in the way 2 property taxes are applied in the state of New 3 York. Without -- without, as I say, raising 4 ideological issues, this is a concept that was 5 first raised by Henry George over a hundred 6 years ago, was eventually held that land values 7 are created by the community and in addition to 8 the land improvements thereon are created by 9 individuals who put their money and their time 10 into the improvement. 11 We are recognizing now that that 12 is a valid proposition, and that there should be 13 essentially a differentiation in the tax rate on 14 land and on buildings and on the improvements 15 and this so-called George's movement, in recent 16 years, has brought about greater benefits to 17 many communities in our neighboring state of 18 Pennsylvania which has diminished the tax rate 19 on land -- on property improvements and raised 20 the tax rate on land and it's helped to bring 21 about a renaissance in the city of Pittsburgh 22 and many other cities. A comparable city to 23 Pittsburgh might be Buffalo and the rate of 6964 1 business permit increases is 80 percent greater 2 in Pittsburgh than in Buffalo and one of the 3 principal reasons for this is because of the 4 two-rate tax system which has not penalized 5 people who seek to improve and upgrade their 6 property. 7 Now, this is a small bill for a 8 small community in the state of New York, the 9 city of Amsterdam. The city of Amsterdam is one 10 of the old deteriorating mill towns along the 11 Mohawk, and this city is going to have an 12 opportunity to experiment with a two-rate tax 13 system and hopefully bring about an economic 14 resurgence in that community. 15 So I congratulate Senator Farley 16 for advancing this bill. I've had a great 17 interest in doing this. The city of Rome has 18 had -- made a movement toward that but for many 19 reasons they couldn't implement it, but I think 20 this city is an ideal place to do it. 21 Senator Farley, you're a leader 22 in helping to rationalize the real property tax 23 situation in the state of New York. I commend 6965 1 you for it, and this bill deserves the support 2 of all the members in this house. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley is 4 recognized to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Just quickly to 6 explain my vote. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 8 Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: For all of my 10 colleagues that have a small city or any city, 11 it doesn't have to be a small city, Senator 12 Dollinger, this is an exciting piece of 13 legislation that stimulates building, and it's 14 truly a renaissance situation that has been 15 startling in its results in Pennsylvania. 16 This is the first in the state. 17 Amsterdam, a small deteriorating city in my 18 district, has asked for this, and it's a local 19 piece of legislation, but it's something that 20 you should watch. You should mention it to your 21 small cities if you have them or to your cities 22 within your district, Jamestown included, 23 because it could be a very exciting opportunity 6966 1 to stimulate building and growth within a - 2 within a city. 3 I vote aye. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill has been 5 passed, and - 6 SENATOR GOLD: What were the 7 results? 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill has been 9 passed. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I just want 11 to know the results. I just want to know if the 12 requests for explanation changed the vote. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Some time, 14 Senator Gold, I'll tell you the story about when 15 I had an uncontested amendment rejected by the 16 House of Representatives, but not right now. I 17 insisted on explaining my amendment. But that 18 did not happen in this case. The bill is still 19 passed unanimously. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1500, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 22 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8414-A, 23 Surrogate's Court Procedure Act. 6967 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46, nays 1, 7 Senator Pataki recorded in the negative. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1503, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 5986, 12 to allow Judge Gilbert Rabin retroactive 13 membership in the New York State and Local 14 Employees' Retirement System. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 2, 21 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 22 negative. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6968 1 passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 -- Calendar Number 1505, by the Senate 4 Committee on Rules, Senate Bill Number 6077, to 5 authorize Lawrence Leff, an employee of Nassau 6 County to file for retroactive membership. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 9 please. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1506. 14 THE PRESIDENT: This bill will be 15 laid aside. It's high, and there is no message 16 at the desk. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1507, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 19 6079, Environmental Conservation Law. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 6969 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. President. I request unanimous 4 consent, I'm not sure on the procedure, because 5 it passed so long ago, but in regard to Calendar 6 Number 441, that I be recorded in the negative. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Without 8 objection, it's so ordered. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1520. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 high. It will be laid aside, and it, by way of 15 explanation, the bill is not on today's 16 calendar. 17 That concludes the 18 non-controversial calendar. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 I believe we're prepared to take up the 21 controversial calendar. 22 THE PRESIDENT: All right. The 23 Secretary will read. 6970 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 2 Calendar Number 62, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill 3 Number 80-A, an act to amend the Transportation 4 Law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 7 requested, Senator Levy, on the bill. 8 SENATOR LEVY: I'm sorry? 9 THE PRESIDENT: No problem, but 10 the Calendar Number 62 was laid aside earlier, 11 is now before the house. 12 SENATOR LEVY: Sure, if there are 13 any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 15 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Gold, what 16 -- well, let me begin, Senator Gold, by saying 17 that we have an enormous grave and concerning 18 problem in this state, and it relates to the 19 transportation of children in wheel chairs in 20 vehicles -- in vehicles in this state. 21 Now, about two weeks ago, I 22 hosted a meeting, and let me just acknowledge 23 the extraordinary job that Senator Libous and 6971 1 his special committee have done in this area. I 2 hosted a meeting a couple weeks ago among the 3 state Department of Transportation, the state 4 Department of Motor Vehicles, the Commissioner 5 of Education, and the Advocate for the Disabled, 6 and I have to tell you, it was incredible to sit 7 at that meeting with DOT, state Education 8 Department and DMV, and they don't talk to one 9 another about this area of concern. 10 DOT was moving forward within 11 their jurisdiction to regulate this area, and 12 the Department of Motor Vehicles was totally - 13 totally ignorant of what the Department of 14 Transportation was doing, and the Department of 15 Motor Vehicles has a significant area of 16 jurisdiction in this area, Senator Gold, and 17 they weren't doing anything, and they didn't 18 know that the Department of Transportation was 19 acting. 20 So what -- what this bill does, 21 Senator Gold, is to make sure DOT proceeds and 22 enacts the regulations that it was going to do 23 and requires the Department of Motor Vehicles as 6972 1 it relates to their area of concern to look into 2 it and enact the rules and regulations to 3 guarantee the safety of these children and 4 others being transported in wheel chairs. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy yield 8 to a question? 9 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly. 10 SENATOR GOLD: This bill is the 11 same bill as we had last year, Senator? 12 SENATOR LEVY: No, it isn't, 13 Senator. 14 SENATOR GOLD: What is the 15 difference between the bill? 16 SENATOR LEVY: This is -- there 17 are many differences because, since last year, 18 Senator, the DOT has moved forward to regulate 19 -- regulate the transportation of children and 20 others in wheel chairs and to focus in on this 21 very, very real problem of securement devices, 22 occupant securement devices on school buses and 23 omnibuses, and the bill requires that those 6973 1 regulations be promulgated and it requires 2 additionally that the state Department of Motor 3 Vehicles focus in on the same problem within 4 their jurisdiction and responsibility of buses 5 other than school buses, because they are also 6 regulating on non-school bus type of 7 transportation, the transportation of children 8 and others in wheel chairs. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 10 question? 11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, I will. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, your last 13 answer confused me a little bit. You say the 14 bill is different from last year because now the 15 department is doing something and they have 16 regulations. 17 SENATOR LEVY: No, they don't 18 have regulations. They are looking into it, and 19 this requires the Department of Transportation 20 to act and, as I told you initially, when we sat 21 around the table at this meeting, the -- through 22 the meeting that we convened, the Department of 23 Motor Vehicles found out that the Department of 6974 1 Transportation was regulating their 2 jurisdictional area. They didn't even know it 3 until I conducted this meeting, and they said 4 they are doing nothing to regulate the 5 transportation of non-school bus type of 6 vehicles in this state that are transporting 7 people in wheel chairs, and this requires them 8 to act to regulate that area. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 10 yield to a question? 11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, are there 13 any reporting requirements in the legislation? 14 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Again, in 15 another area, there is a reporting requirement 16 to the Legislature because for years now there 17 is an interdepartmental school bus committee and 18 that interdepartmental school bus committee for 19 years now has been trying to agree among 20 themselves. These are state department -- state 21 agencies, on a legislative recommendation to us 22 as to the definition of "school bus" and they 23 haven't been able to reach an agreement among 6975 1 themselves. So we say to them, Hey, guys, get 2 your act together and give us a report on your 3 recommendation of how we should define "school 4 bus." 5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy, you 6 say that the -- the reporting requirement is to 7 the Legislature. I don't see that. Can you 8 show me where that is? 9 SENATOR LEVY: It's in the last 10 section of the bill, and it's the report, the 11 definition to the Governor, the Senate, the 12 Speaker, the chair of the respective committees. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. 14 Mr. President, on the bill. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold is 16 recognized. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy, we 18 are lawmakers here. Some of us are even lawyers 19 and words have meanings. 20 There's no requirement to report 21 to the Legislature, Senator Levy. There's a 22 requirement to report to the President of the 23 Senate and the Speaker of the Assembly, and the 6976 1 chair of the committee in the Senate and the 2 Assembly. 3 I'm a member of the Legislature. 4 There's no report -- requirement to report to 5 me. There's no requirement that the Minority 6 Leader of the Assembly receive a copy of your 7 report or any of the ranking members, at least 8 that's the way the language seems to read. 9 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, I am 10 sorry, that is an oversight, Senator. As you've 11 asked me the other day, with the Commission on 12 Alternatives to the Property Tax, I go out of my 13 way to carry out my responsibility to make sure 14 that there are reports to Majority and Minority 15 leadership in both houses and committee chairs. 16 That is an inadvertent 17 oversight. If this bill were to become law, 18 when the report is made to those that are 19 directed to receive the report, you can 20 personally be assured of the fact that I myself 21 will bring a copy to your office, Senator Gold. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 23 Senator Dollinger. 6977 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, I'd just ask one question to the 3 sponsor if I may. I -- Senator, I voted on this 4 bill when it was in the Transportation 5 Committee. I guess it was in a prior print, but 6 my question is, the -- is it true that the 7 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration 8 has already conducted an investigation of the 9 issue of wheel chair safety on school buses and 10 issued a series of regulations; and how does 11 that play in this? 12 SENATOR LEVY: What they have 13 done, Senator, is to leave certain areas to the 14 action of the state, and this is -- this is the 15 area that this bill deals with to make sure that 16 DOT and DMV carry out the responsibilities that 17 have been left to them by the federal government 18 and the recommendations of the safety board. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. So I 20 understand it, through you, Mr. President, this 21 is not duplicating anything that the fed's have 22 done; this is to fit in the envelope in this 23 series of regulations created by the fed's? 6978 1 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, to give us 2 the opportunity to act in this area. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 12 Calendar Number 261, by Senator Velella, Senate 13 Bill Number 3156-A, an act to amend the 14 Insurance Law. 15 SENATOR GOLD: One second. Will 16 Senator Velella yield to a question? 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, we had a 19 vote on this bill earlier this year, and then it 20 was amended; is that correct? 21 SENATOR VELELLA: We had a vote 22 and then what? 23 SENATOR GOLD: Earlier this year 6979 1 and then it was amended? 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. The 3 amendments were at the suggestion of the 4 Insurance Department. After it had passed both 5 houses, they found some technical questions in 6 the language and they had asked that we make 7 some changes that we agreed some of the language 8 in the original bill was a little bit vague, and 9 they were a little concerned about interpret 10 ing that and leaving some big wide gaping 11 holes. So we met with them and, upon the 12 agreement of all the parties, the Assembly, the 13 department, the Senate, we made these 14 modifications. 15 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Will 16 you yield to one more question? 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I have a note that 19 indicates on the original print the Life 20 Insurance Council was opposed and Blue Cross/ 21 Blue Shield was opposed on the original print. 22 Were any of their objections dealt with in the 23 amendment? 6980 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, there 2 were -- I can't specifically remember off the 3 top of my head what their specific objections 4 were, but I tend to think that since what we've 5 done is clear up language that would have 6 allowed the possibility of double payments on 7 claims, paying both a physician and an audio 8 logist, that that was one of their objections. 9 Now, does that remove all of 10 their objections? I don't know. I don't 11 remember what the original objection was. I do 12 know that these amendments clear up the question 13 of whether or not there could be double billing 14 and whether or not services that were provided 15 could be provided outside of a hospital 16 setting. 17 So those were the main -- the two 18 main changes that were made in these 19 amendments. I would assume that was part of 20 their objection. If they have any others, I've 21 not been made aware of it. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon. 6981 1 SENATOR VELELLA: I've just been 2 advised, Senator Gold, that Blue Cross/Blue 3 Shield has approved this. That was one of their 4 objections, and they're approving it now. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yeah, on the 6 bill, Mr. President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Like to ask for 8 order in the chamber. 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 10 this is again another mandate that has an impact 11 only on those that have to abide by New York 12 State's insurance laws. As we drive more and 13 more people out to try and self-insure and be 14 covered by ERISA, if they can, that will raise 15 the cost of insurance as it is; and, again, we 16 talk about basic coverages and basic or coverage 17 of basic services for insurance to supposedly 18 keep down the cost of insurance, and again we're 19 on this trend. 20 We have no cost/benefit analysis 21 showing us how much items like this are going to 22 cost, how their impacts are going to be on 23 individual policyholders, and we keep moving in 6982 1 this direction where we consider health 2 insurance costs a major problem, but we keep 3 increasing the number of items which they must 4 cover, and the result being that policies 5 eventually tend to go over, be one of the 6 contributing factors to rising costs of health 7 insurance. 8 Thank you. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48, nays 1, 15 Senator Libous recorded in the negative, also 16 Senator Solomon in the negative. Also Senator 17 Holland. Also Senator Bruno in the negative, 18 also Senator Seward in the negative. Ayes 45, 19 nays 5. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 21 passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 287, by Senator Tully. 6983 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 2 temporarily. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 4 aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 324, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 7 880-A, an act to amend the Tax Law and the 8 Insurance Law. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 11 requested. 12 Senator Holland. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 14 this bill provides tax incentives for businesses 15 and individuals to encourage the purchase of 16 comprehensive long-term care insurance policies 17 and thus, over time, reduce reliance on the 18 Medicaid program for the provision of long-term 19 care services. 20 We believe we must take action 21 now to reduce the cost of Medicaid for long 22 term care. By encouraging businesses and middle 23 income individuals to consider the purchase of 6984 1 long-term care insurance as an integral part of 2 their financial planning, the tax credit 3 provided for this legislation would help ensure 4 that many New Yorkers will not be forced onto 5 Medicaid as their savings are exhausted. 6 The credit against taxes is 20 7 percent of the premium paid in a taxable year 8 for long-term care insurance policies. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 10 will Senator Holland yield, please? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 13 wonder if you could tell us, first of all, 14 whether this is an agreed-upon bill, and I'm not 15 one that generally thinks we shouldn't pass 16 one-house bills, because if the house feels 17 about a particular legislation a certain way 18 then we ought to act on it, but having in mind 19 the date, I think maybe my question is relevant 20 at this point. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: There is a 22 similar bill introduced by Assemblyman 23 Schimminger. However, it does have technical 6985 1 differences with this bill. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, I 3 couldn't hear you, sir. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: There is a 5 similar bill that has been introduced by 6 Assemblyman Schimminger, but it does have 7 technical differences with this bill. That's 8 why it has no "same as". 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. Am 10 I correct then - 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: They're not 12 exactly the same. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is a nice 14 way of saying this is not an agreed-upon bill. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: They're not 16 exactly the same. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right, and 18 certainly something, Senator, that on July 3rd, 19 it's important for us to do. I see the bill 20 bears a date of January 20th, and I'm glad that 21 you left the bill for such a propitious time for 22 us to debate this one-house bill. It certainly 23 is significant. 6986 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Is that a 2 question? 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me -- if 4 you'd be so kind just to yield to some 5 questions. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Certainly. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: My 8 understanding is that we do have a program in 9 effect in this state relating to the purchase of 10 insurance for long-term health care. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: True. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right? And I'm 13 not sure how that program, which I think just 14 went into effect and I believe was sponsored by 15 our dear and beloved ex-colleague Senator 16 Lombardi, how does it -- how does your bill 17 accommodate and work and coordinate with his 18 bill? 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: We have been 20 successful, as you say, Senator, in creating the 21 long-term care insurance policy. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me, Mr. 23 President. It's very hard to hear Senator 6987 1 Holland. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Leichter's point is well taken. There will be 4 order in the chamber. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: As you say, 6 Senator, we have been successful in creating 7 long-term health insurance policies. This bill, 8 we hope, will reinforce the sale of those 9 policies by giving a tax credit to the people 10 who purchase long-term care policies so that 11 they -- their insurance takes care of their 12 long-term health instead of Medicaid. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Senator, 14 your -- your fiscal impact notes or fiscal 15 implication statement is always very interest 16 ingly worded. This one says "to be 17 determined." 18 I thought the whole idea, 19 Senator, of a fiscal implication statement was 20 that when we vote on the bill, we have some idea 21 what it's going to cost. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm sorry, 23 Senator, there is a fiscal implication note. I 6988 1 don't know why you don't have it. It says 2 actually, and I thought you'd bring this up, 3 that this -- they're saying the cost, short-term 4 cost, would be $22 million in the year of 1994. 5 However, in the long term, we believe that on 6 average, it would -- if people were encouraged 7 and given tax credits to buy the long-term 8 insurance policy, they would save or the state 9 would rather save 23 months of long-term care 10 services for each person kept from converting 11 from private pay to Medicaid, and that's 12 approximately $70,000 per individual long-term 13 savings. 14 Initially, it would be a cost to 15 the state. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is 17 there anything in your bill which limits the 18 credit or conditions of credit upon what sort of 19 insurance company it is? I -- I assume that you 20 need to be a licensed insurer, but is there any 21 other supervision and control over the insurer 22 to make sure that what we're getting is 23 something that makes it worth this subsidy? 6989 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: There's a 2 number of things, Senator. Must be -- the 3 credit must be approved by the Superintendent. 4 The policy must provide a minimum of three years 5 benefits, cover skilled, intermediate and long 6 term care, include a case management function, 7 provides indemnity levels for policies issued in 8 1992, and on and on and on. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, among 10 the insurance coverage that can be purchased 11 under your bill, is there one that provides home 12 care? 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Got it. On 14 page 4, line 39, coverage for skilled and 15 intermediate and long-term care, custodial home 16 care, home health care without the requirement 17 of a prior stay - 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Where - 19 excuse me, Senator. Where are you reading, what 20 line? 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Page 4, line 22 39. This is an "A" version. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. O.K. 6990 1 Thank you. 2 Mr. President. Mr. President, 3 there certainly is merit in trying to get people 4 to secure coverage to cover long-term health 5 care. I'm really not sure that this is the - 6 the most effective way of providing subsidies 7 for people to do that. It may be or it may not 8 be. Obviously, there's a lot of consideration 9 now being given to how we deal with health care 10 needs in this country, if we need a national 11 approach; there are things that we need to do in 12 this state. 13 Senator Holland's bill provides a 14 cost of $22 million, as I understand that's an 15 annual cost, am I correct on that, Senator, or 16 the initial annual cost if I could ask you to 17 yield again, just so I understand what that 22 18 is. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Just projected 20 for 1994, Senator. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. So 22 that this bill carries a big price tag with it. 23 There's also a question in my mind who really 6991 1 benefits. Are we reaching the people that we 2 most want to help? In order to get some benefit 3 out of the tax credit, you've got to pay a 4 substantial tax and, while this bill and this 5 credit certainly would be of value to people who 6 make over $100,000, I'm not sure that it's going 7 to amount to very much and be significant for 8 most of the people in this state. Certainly 9 it's going to have limited value, if any value, 10 for working people, middle class people, so on, 11 so that if you're going to take $22 million 12 maybe you want to target it more directly to 13 people who have greater need, Senator Holland. 14 That's why I think that this 15 bill, while it certainly grapples with the 16 problem, and I don't think anybody can say, 17 Well, this is a wrong way to go, but I'm not 18 sure that you have fine tuned it enough and 19 refined it enough, and I suspect and, as you 20 indicated, it's not something that we're going 21 to be able to get the Legislature to act on at 22 this time. 23 I don't know why you -- you know, 6992 1 you bring out the bill at this late hour, and so 2 on, with, I think, such minimal chance that it's 3 going to receive consideration of both houses. 4 Maybe on the idea that as long as there's life, 5 there's hope, and you'll still get another bill 6 through, but I might suggest that you take a 7 look at the calendar. It's July 3rd. Maybe we 8 could be doing things that would be more 9 productive. 10 I don't mean to say it's not 11 important. It is important, but we certainly 12 could be spending our time much more product 13 ively like being at the beach or at a picnic or 14 some patriotic celebration. 15 Mr. President, it's just, I think 16 people ought to take a look. It has a $22 17 million price tag, obviously is not considered 18 in the state's fiscal plan. It does primarily 19 benefit wealthier individuals. For these 20 reasons and also the fact that we're just voting 21 on a one-house bill, I would urge my colleagues 22 to vote in the negative. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6993 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 3, 6 Senators Espada, Leichter and Solomon recorded 7 in the negative. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 11 could I be recorded in the negative on Calendar 12 261? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Without 14 objection, it's so ordered. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 814, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 17 Assembly Bill Number 8059, an act to amend the 18 Education Law, in relation to exempting certain 19 persons from licensing requirements for 20 practicing animal health technology. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 23 requested. 6994 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I withdraw 2 my - 3 THE PRESIDENT: The -- read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE PRESIDENT: This is 814. 10 SENATOR JONES: To explain my - 11 THE PRESIDENT: Just a second, 12 Senator Jones. I'll recognize you as soon as 13 the -- Senator Jones. 14 SENATOR JONES: Yes, to explain 15 my vote, Mr. President. 16 I have never, I guess, in my life 17 seen so many untruths, misstatements and 18 ridiculous information disseminated anywhere as 19 I've seen on this bill. I am absolutely 20 astounded and shocked, and I want to say 21 particularly to Senator Cook, someone told me 22 once, there isn't any courage here. I want to 23 tell you that I believe that there is. 6995 1 This bill involves nothing but 2 saving the life of a baby and, in return, it is 3 not harming the life of an animal. There could 4 not be more protection built into this bill to 5 protect the animal with the opportunity to save 6 hundreds of babies a year, and I just want to 7 say thank you to all of you that had the courage 8 to look at the truth and vote for this. 9 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cook is 11 recognized. 12 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 13 would like to explain my vote by a very unusual 14 method of reading the bill, in case anybody left 15 their glasses home. 16 A person, an unlicensed person 17 may perform endotracheal intubation on an animal 18 under supervision of a veterinarian in lieu of 19 the veterinarian personally performing the 20 procedure. 21 In other words, the procedure a 22 veterinarian was going to perform themselves 23 anyway, if the person doing it is a certified 6996 1 emergency medical technician enrolled in a 2 course of advanced emergency medical technology 3 approved under Article 30 of the Public Health 4 Law. 5 (b) the procedure is performed as 6 a part of the certified emergency medical 7 technician's pediatric endotracheal intubation 8 training. 9 (c) And this is important, the 10 procedure is performed in a veterinary facility 11 under the immediate personal supervision of a 12 licensed veterinarian or a licensed veterinarian 13 technician acting under the direct supervision 14 of the veterinarian. 15 (d) the procedure is medically 16 indicated and performed as a part of treating or 17 operating on any non-emergency disease, pain, 18 injury, deformities or physical condition of the 19 animal. 20 (e) the procedure is performed 21 only when the animal is properly sedated. 22 (f) the procedure is performed no 23 more than once per animal. 6997 1 (g) the animal owner or person 2 having lawful charge or custody of the animal 3 consents in writing to the performance of this 4 procedure. 5 Mr. President, if that sounds 6 anything like anything that other people have 7 been reading in the past week, I defy them to 8 show me the similarity. 9 I vote yes. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno is 11 recognized to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 Thank you, Senator Cook, for the 15 explanation. I am continually puzzled by the 16 organizations that support or oppose some of the 17 animal legislation that comes through here, and 18 I see for instance opposing this the New York 19 State Humane Society, among many others, and I 20 wonder why the Humane Society opposes this, 21 given that the cats, as we've heard, the kittens 22 are used in the way that they are used and not 23 abused. 6998 1 It would seem that there ought to 2 be a plausible explanation as to why so many of 3 the animal organizations are against this, and 4 there appears from some of what I've read that 5 using models of infants that don't move serve a 6 very useful purpose as a substitute for using 7 live animals. 8 So, Mr. President, I hear the 9 explanations, but I for one am very uncomfort 10 able with the potential consequences to helpless 11 animals. So I will vote no. 12 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mega is 14 recognized to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR MEGA: May I explain my 16 vote? 17 This type of legislation 18 involving an animal and the memos that are 19 produced, and the distortions that are presented 20 to try and get someone to vote against this bill 21 -- and I have no problem with anybody voting 22 against this bill -- but I think Senator Cook 23 just very clearly indicated that no way is this 6999 1 going to hurt an animal, and I think the most 2 important part of the legislation is that this 3 cannot be done, and I repeat that this cannot be 4 done, unless the owner of the animal consents. 5 Now, what owner of what animal is 6 going to consent to having this done if there 7 was something wrong with it? So a no vote, I can 8 understand, but what I can't understand is 9 anybody believing -- anybody believing the memos 10 in opposition. That boggles my mind. 11 I vote yes. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Halperin 13 is recognized to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR HALPERIN: I'd like to 15 explain my vote. 16 Earlier today, I had a 17 conversation regarding this legislation and I 18 was advised that this legislation mandates that 19 trainees for emergency -- emergency medical 20 technician status must perform this type of 21 intubation in order to be certified. 22 I checked with the sponsor of the 23 bill, and I was assured that that's not the case 7000 1 and, probably more importantly, I read the bill 2 and there's nothing in there that provides for 3 that, and I just want to say that I want to make 4 that clear on the record, and I want to make it 5 clear that this bill relates once again only to 6 voluntary situations where the owners are 7 authorizing this intubation which would 8 otherwise have to occur or has otherwise been 9 determined to be for the best interests of the 10 animal and, with that in mind, I vote in favor 11 of the bill. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 I was going to oppose this, and I 16 know that it's been discussed a little bit 17 within some particular groups but, as Senator 18 Jones mentions and as Senator Cook mentions, I 19 think it's very important that there's nothing 20 more important than the possibility of saving a 21 human life, and in this case an infant's life, 22 and I just think that what has been said on the 23 floor and actually reading the bill compels me 7001 1 to change my vote, and I will support it and 2 vote yes. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 I was going to oppose this bill, 7 but I think the debate and the explanation makes 8 it absolutely essential that, in my judgment, 9 that there's no concern about inhumane treatment 10 of animals. I'm going to vote aye. 11 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Levy. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 I was going to vote against the 16 bill myself and, like so many people in this 17 chamber, I consider myself to be a -- a genuine 18 lover of animals and -- and I listened to the 19 debate, and we have had a bill here a short time 20 ago having to do with bicycle helmets and trying 21 to avert head injuries and this type -- this 22 type of work is vitally important as it relates 23 to dealing with head injuries. 7002 1 But just in voting yes, let me 2 just say one other thing: The people who have 3 opposed this bill have worked diligently and 4 sincerely out of concern in opposition to this 5 legislation for a while and they are, they have 6 been, and I know that they will continue to 7 provide not only this house but the Assembly and 8 the Governor with -- with really very, very 9 valuable information that raises the level of 10 consciousness of all of us as it relates to 11 genuine problems in the treatment of animals, 12 and I think that -- that the job that they've 13 done ought to be recognized and -- and if there 14 was a misunderstanding over some of the 15 provisions of this bill, it certainly should not 16 work negatively against all of the hard and 17 effective work that has been done by those 18 people in those groups. 19 I vote aye. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle 21 is recognized to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR LAVALLE: Explain my 23 vote, Mr. President. 7003 1 Like many of the others who have 2 risen to explain their votes, I, too, had 3 intended at one point in time to vote in the 4 negative on this legislation. 5 Last -- during this year, Senator 6 Bruno had asked me to take a -- a trip to Hudson 7 Valley Community College and, during that visit, 8 I had stopped at one of the - 9 THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, 10 Senator LaValle. Senator LaValle is 11 recognized. 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: I had stopped 13 in one of the departments, respiratory therapy 14 department, and last year many of you might 15 remember that we passed legislation licensing 16 respiratory therapists. 17 During my visit, I asked several 18 people about the nature of this bill and whether 19 procedures could effectively, on youngsters 20 using a model, whether that would be effective, 21 and the answer was -- was no, and in talking 22 with so many people about whether a procedure 23 could be done using a model, the answer came 7004 1 back consistently no. 2 I believe there are protections 3 in this bill and, like Senator Levy, I, too -- I 4 think my record has reflected -- has been one 5 consistently for humane treatment of animals. I 6 think there are sufficient protections in this 7 bill. 8 Therefore, Mr. President, I vote 9 in the affirmative on this bill. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 11 will report. Senator Montgomery wish to be 12 recognized? 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 14 you. Mr. President, I would just like to, in 15 adding to what my colleagues have said regarding 16 this bill, I want to add my comments, my 17 compliments to Senator Cook for your courage in 18 putting this bill out. 19 I'm voting yes because I see 20 where the intent, the primary intent of the 21 bill, the ultimate outcome is that we will be 22 able to save the lives of many children. In the 23 support memo, I see where some 200 children die 7005 1 every year because of the lack of experience on 2 this particular procedure and, if we can save 3 the lives of those children, I think it's worth 4 passing this legislation. 5 So I'm voting yes, and thank you, 6 Senator Cook, for putting the bill out. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 814 are Senators 9 Bruno, Johnson, Lack, Maltese, Nozzolio, 10 Padavan, Pataki, Spano, Trunzo, Velella and 11 Waldon. Ayes 40, nays 11. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 Senator Cook. 15 SENATOR COOK: Can I have 16 unanimous consent to make a statement? 17 THE PRESIDENT: Without 18 objection. 19 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 20 want to thank this house. I think you saved the 21 lives of a hundred kids a year. Thank you. 22 THE PRESIDENT: O.K. Secretary 23 will read. 7006 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 can we call up Calendar 287, please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 287, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 724-C, 5 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki. 16 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, 17 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 18 negative on Calendar 859, Senate Bill 3401, 19 which previously passed the house. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, so ordered. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 23, 23 Calendar Number 1073, by Senator Hannon, Senate 7007 1 Bill Number 3172, an act to amend the Tax Law. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 4 requested. 5 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 6 this bill would conform provisions of the Tax 7 Law to those provisions currently existing in 8 the federal Internal Revenue Code in order to 9 allow for the limited carry forward of net 10 operating losses when computing minimum taxable 11 income. 12 This bill was passed in this 13 house last year also. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 15 President. If Senator Hannon would be so good 16 to yield. 17 Senator, as I said to Senator 18 Holland, I don't usually think it's significant 19 whether something is a one-house bill or not, 20 but I think when it's July 3rd, I see a bill 21 bearing a date of March 2nd, I'm interested in 22 knowing whether the bill is going to have any 23 chance in the other house. 7008 1 Could you tell us whether this is 2 an agreed-upon bill? 3 SENATOR HANNON: I'm not going to 4 answer that question. The question -- you ask 5 me a question about the merits of the bill, how 6 many jobs are involved in New York State, what 7 it means to the economy of the state, whether 8 people are looking at this as to whether some 9 people are concerned as to whether or not we're 10 going to do anything for the economy of the 11 state, I'll be happy to answer about it. 12 I don't know what the state of 13 the mind of the other house is. Currently 14 they're in a full court stall on everything so 15 they can protect wealthy tenants. That's all I 16 know. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, may 18 I - 19 SENATOR HANNON: I refuse to 20 yield, Mr. President. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 22 President, that's all right. I thought it was a 23 good -- I thought it was a good statement about 7009 1 where you're at, and where -- and what some of 2 the problems are in this Legislature, why we're 3 not getting anything done, and I'm referring to 4 your frame of mind. 5 Senator, would you be so good as 6 to yield? 7 SENATOR HANNON: I respectfully 8 decline, Mr. President. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon 10 has indicated he does not wish to yield. 11 Senator Leichter has the floor. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think that's 13 unfortunate and let me just say, Senator Hannon, 14 I've always found you extremely courteous, 15 cooperative, we may not agree on the issues. I 16 think on July 3rd, being here in this chamber 17 anybody is allowed to be intemperate, and I 18 expect to be intemperate very soon too because I 19 think it is -- Senator Gold says I already am. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I said no, it is 21 impossible for you. 22 THE PRESIDENT: I'd like to ask 23 all the Senators if you will please keep order, 7010 1 please not engage in cat calls or other kinds of 2 extraneous conversation. 3 Senator Leichter is recognized. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr. 5 President, I -- I can understand the frustration 6 and the annoyance of Senator Hannon, and I think 7 all of us share that. I don't think we should 8 be here. I think it's absurd. I think it's 9 ridiculous. I know that the Majority all likes 10 to say, Well, we were elected to run this house, 11 and let me tell you, we have nothing to do with 12 running this house. You could take all the 13 credit for having us here over July 4th week end 14 doing one-house bills, and I don't -- and I 15 disagree with some of the colleagues on this 16 side of the aisle who in March or April will get 17 up and say, Is this a one-house bill? Why 18 shouldn't we pass one-house bills? You have a 19 particular viewpoint, that's fine. 20 But I think it's a little 21 different when it's July 3rd, and let me say, 22 Senator Hannon, to you and to the members of the 23 Majority, it's one thing for you to say, I'll 7011 1 stay here on July 4th, nobody put a gun to your 2 head or to my head or to the head of 211 3 legislators and said, You've got to serve in the 4 New York State Legislature, but there happen to 5 be hundreds of people who work with us and for 6 us, and we're ruining their July 4th. These are 7 telephone operators, they're elevator operators, 8 they're guards, they're sergeant-at-arms, 9 they're people that work at the desk. 10 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 11 Mr. President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Would Senator 14 Leichter yield to a question? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Senator Leichter, 17 do you really believe for one minute in 18 sincerity, in all due sincerity, and I have the 19 highest personal regard for you, that Senator 20 Hannon's bill that's before us today is the 21 reason we're going to be here the rest of the 22 day or the reason we're going to be here 23 tomorrow or the next day? 7012 1 You do know, do you not, that 2 it's the Governor that's the reason that we're 3 here. It's no one else's reason; it's the 4 Governor we're here for, because the governor 5 hasn't agreed to things the two houses have 6 agreed upon and, if he would agree, we'd be out 7 of here. It's certainly not Senator Hannon. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Tully, 9 I think there are a number of people, a number 10 of the institutions within this Capitol that are 11 responsible for the -- for us being here at this 12 time and accomplishing absolutely nothing. 13 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 14 is this germane to the bill before the house? 15 THE PRESIDENT: The Chair will 16 advise Senator Hannon that there is a wide 17 latitude of relevance, and that this Chair does 18 not have the authority to rule a Senator out of 19 order on the grounds that his comments are 20 unrelated to the bill. 21 Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. 23 Senator, I'm sure the Governor bears some 7013 1 responsibility. I know that the Majority in 2 this house bears a great responsibility. I 3 believe that the Assembly Majority bears some 4 responsibility. I know one person who bears no 5 responsibility, and that's Franz Leichter, and I 6 know one Conference that bears no responsibility 7 and that's the Democratic Conference of this 8 house. 9 But I think the fact is, and the 10 point is, Senator Tully and Senator Hannon, and 11 it is relevant to your bill, it's relevant to 12 whether we ought to be discussing a bill of this 13 nature and this sort on July 3rd, and that is 14 that we have not gridlock in this Capitol. We 15 have stagnation. We have gone beyond grid 16 lock. We are totally non-functional. 17 The way we have conducted 18 business this session is a disgrace. Now, some 19 members have said, Well, the public will see 20 we're really working. We're working even on a 21 patriotic holiday. I think the public is either 22 going to laugh or cry, and they're going to say, 23 Look at these stumble bums. They couldn't get 7014 1 their work done. 2 But I want to get back to the 3 fact. Listen, I feel terrible that I'm here, 4 but I don't think that we have the right for the 5 nature of the disputes that are going on, to 6 keep hundreds of people, it's probably thousands 7 that all work for us, and take away their 8 holiday. These are working people. They didn't 9 sign on for this sort of incompetence that is 10 being displayed here, and let me just say to 11 Senator Hannon, who feels, you know, that all 12 the reason that we're here -- Senator, yeah. 13 O.K. Senator Hannon said that he's -- he'd -- if 14 I'd just let this bill pass, he's going to go 15 and take care, and we're going to get out. 16 Senator Goodman already promised 17 that, Senator Hannon, so I have a gilt-edged 18 promise. Somebody said they saw it on 19 television. Senator Goodman said, Oh, yes, 20 we'll be out of here. 21 But let me just -- let me just 22 say that the whole concept of -- that has 23 characterized this session, which is that you 7015 1 negotiate on nothing, and I think it's as true 2 of the Assembly as it is of this house, you wait 3 until the very last minute, you wait until 4 you're up against a deadline and then you're 5 going to start negotiating. 6 I -- I think it's led us to this 7 impasse. I think that we are the laughing stock 8 of -- of the state, but there are people's lives 9 that are being ruined by what we're doing here, 10 people's plans at least, I don't know if their 11 whole lives, but probably right now they feel 12 their whole lives are being ruined, and it just 13 doesn't make sense and the fact is that we have 14 a one-house bill which, I'm sorry to tell you, 15 Senator Hannon, isn't -- isn't a good bill 16 anyhow, and I'll just briefly say why I'm going 17 to vote against it. 18 This does give an additional tax 19 credit or -- or it's actually a carry-over which 20 means that we're going to have people paying 21 less taxes as it relates to the corporate 22 alternate minimum tax, Senator Hannon, as I 23 understand it, is trying to conform the New York 7016 1 State tax to the -- to the federal tax. 2 Whether that has merit or not, he 3 makes his bill effective as of April 1, 1993, so 4 it will affect our current budget. It will 5 unquestionably mean that there will be less 6 taxes paid and we are already, as we know, 7 running a deficit. How can we conceivably 8 support a bill that's going to bring in less 9 revenues? 10 For that reason, that the bill is 11 not going to pass in the Assembly and the bill 12 would never been signed by the Governor, but it 13 shouldn't be passed by this house either because 14 it's irresponsible for us to do so, whether or 15 not it's July 3rd. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 23 Halperin. 7017 1 SENATOR HALPERIN: I'd like to 2 explain my vote. 3 Just in line with what Senator 4 Leichter said, I believe that this bill is 5 justified from a policy perspective, but given 6 the fact that there's already an over $200 7 million shortfall in anticipated revenues in 8 this year's budget, and that the state lost a 9 round in its PEF legislation which could subject 10 it to very large additional expenditures, I 11 believe that it's not wise to impose another 12 loss of revenues upon the state at this time, 13 and should this approach be adopted in the 14 budget and be part of the fiscal plan, I think 15 it is much warranted, and I would be happy to 16 vote for it, but under these circumstances I'm 17 going to vote against it. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, if I could 21 explain my vote. 22 Senator Halperin, there was, I'd 23 like to remind you -- I'm sure you heard this 7018 1 debate the other day that we had on the -- I 2 think it was the Environmental Trust Fund and, 3 in that situation, Senator Halperin, we were 4 talking about $100 million we had to come up 5 with. We didn't pass that bill and maybe, 6 Senator Halperin, the -- well, but it's a 7 one-house bill, one-house bill. 8 But, Senator Halperin, what I'm 9 getting at is maybe the sponsors of this bill 10 would use the method that was set forth in that 11 memo. They said they were going to skim the 12 money off the taxes so maybe what they're 13 saying, Senator Halperin, is if this becomes law 14 we can use the new Republican fiscal mechanism 15 of skim taxes. You don't like that? 16 I'll vote in the negative also. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Dollinger 20 is recognized to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, I'm always amazed by the -- since 23 this is my first time around, about the budget 7019 1 process that we went through, where there were 2 lots of things on the table from the Majority 3 Conference on this side, in this house, and they 4 were all negotiated, and we ended up with a 5 budget and certain things that didn't get into 6 the budget. 7 Lo and behold, they seem to pop 8 up all over the place as one-house bills now on 9 the 3rd of July, three months later. I gave a 10 speech here a couple of weeks ago about Harvey 11 economics. It seems to me that this is another 12 example of the Harvey economics practiced by the 13 other side, that sort of mythological viewpoint 14 of very rosy future for this state and the 15 things that we ought to do to keep Harvey 16 around. 17 Well, it seems to me you got me 18 again. I'm going to vote for this, but I have a 19 real question as to whether this rabbit is real 20 either, but you tell me it is, I'll buy the 21 rabbit. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 4, 23 Senators Galiber, Gold, Hal... Galiber, Gold, 7020 1 Halperin and Leichter recorded in the negative; 2 also Senator Solomon in the negative; also 3 Senator Stavisky. Ayes 48, nays 6. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1220, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 5147-B, an act to amend the Public Authorities 9 Law. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 12 requested. Senator Holland. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: This bill would 14 establish the Rockland County Solid Waste 15 Management Authority and provide for its 16 purpose, powers and duties. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. If 20 Senator Holland would yield? 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I had 23 a brief occasion to speak to you in the hall 7021 1 about a concern that I had about this bill, but 2 also a similar bill, I think, that you have for 3 Orange County dealing with the disposal of solid 4 waste, and that's the provisions that you have 5 in here on competitive bidding, and if you could 6 just address that. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: I believe it's 8 covered, Senator, on page 17, line 44, 9 contracts. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 11 President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter 13 has the floor. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 15 just bear with me a second, Senator 16 Oppenheimer. I'm sorry, that's page 17, what 17 line was that? 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: 44. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Since I don't 20 have the law, Senator, that is referred to in 21 that provision, if you would just tell me what 22 it does insofar as the competitive bidding 23 laws. 7022 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: That particular 2 section says, I believe, says, subdivision 4 of 3 this section for construction of a solid waste 4 management resource recovery building by the 5 project developer shall contain provisions that 6 such building shall be constructed through 7 construction contracts awarded through public 8 competitive bidding in accordance with 9 paragraphs (a) through (g) of the subdivision; 10 that said project developer, et cetera, et 11 cetera. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. Thank 13 you, Senator. One other question if you would 14 be so kind as to yield. 15 What does it do with prevailing 16 wage? 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: It has nothing 18 specific, Senator. You know, we're working on 19 separate bills regarding prevailing wages. This 20 doesn't comment on it. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: So, Senator, 22 am I correct that contracts let for construction 23 by this authority would not be subject to 7023 1 prevailing wage? 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: They would be 3 subject to existing laws, Senator. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Existing laws, 5 and does that existing law include the 6 prevailing wage laws? 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Only the 8 prevailing wage laws that are on the books 9 today, General Municipal Law, and you know we 10 are developing other bills regarding the 11 prevailing wage. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: But you're 13 saying that it would be subject to - 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Existing law. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- existing 16 prevailing laws insofar as these affect 17 municipal contracts. 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Correct. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Thank 20 you. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 22 President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7024 1 Oppenheimer. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If Senator 3 Holland would yield. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, ma'am. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 6 construction that you're talking about in this 7 bill I'm not sure what that is. There's a 8 portion in the bill that talks flow control, and 9 flow control is fine with me if it involves 10 construction of a MRF, but it's not fine if it 11 involves construction of something that, of an 12 incinerator. 13 The construction you were just 14 talking about, what -- what is to be 15 constructed? 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't believe 17 there's any discussion of construction of an in 18 cinerator, Senator. There might be construction 19 of a building where the refuse would be 20 separated. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Right, a 22 MRF. 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 7025 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: O.K. Yes, 2 I believe last year, you can correct me, I'd 3 like to ask Senator another question. This bill 4 last year, did it have the flow control in it as 5 well? 6 I question because I voted 7 against it last year, and I think it is - 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Was it last 9 year's bill or not? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We have 11 checked it out. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't have it. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It was in 14 an earlier edition. It's now changed. I will 15 be supporting the bill. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: O.K. Thank you. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7026 1 passed. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 call up Calendar 1520, please. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 6 will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1520, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 9 5264-A, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 12 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 13 message at the desk. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 15 accept the message. 16 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 17 all those in favor say aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 The ayes have it. The motion is 22 agreed to. The message is accepted. Last 23 section. 7027 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1260, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 10 Bill Number 5853-A, an act to amend the General 11 Municipal Law. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 14 temporarily. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay 16 that bill aside temporarily. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1306, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 2020 19 B. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 21 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 22 the Mental Hygiene Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7028 1 Spano, an explanation is requested. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 4 aside temporarily. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1331, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 7 4446-A, to determine - 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 temporarily. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 11 aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1338, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number - 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 16 aside temporarily. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1371, by member of the Assembly Lasher, Assembly 19 Bill Number 5823, Real Property Law. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 21 second. Just one second. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay the 7029 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1386, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 4 5303, an act to amend the Insurance Law, the Tax 5 Law and the Administrative Code of the city of 6 New York. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 temporarily. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 11 aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1389, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 14 5576-A, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 temporarily. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Laid 18 aside temporarily. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1416, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 21 4757-B, Public Authorities Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 23 second. Last section. 7030 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: We'll 6 call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1423, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 13 Bill Number 5702, to amend Chapter 879 of the 14 Laws of 1936. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 17 temporarily. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 19 aside temporarily. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1431, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Bill Number 6049, amends Chapter 814 of the Laws 23 of 1987. 7031 1 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 3 temporarily. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay it 5 aside temporarily. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1444, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 5985, 8 Uniform City Court Act. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay 11 that bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1449, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 6018, 14 New York State - 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 for the day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay 18 that aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1463, by member of the Assembly Pheffer, 21 Assembly Bill Number 1019, Tax Law. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 7032 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Temporarily. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 5 Temporarily. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1464, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 5333-A, Social Services Law. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 11 Explanation. Senator Holland. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 13 we've gotten many complaints from the local 14 social services offices because we put an 15 administrative cap on them. In other words, 16 they couldn't spend any more money. This bill 17 will supplement and raise that cap if they have 18 a surge in case loads. 19 There is no money allocated this 20 year. It would be in next year's budget if this 21 bill is authorized. This bill is also carried 22 in the Assembly by Assemblyman Tallon. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7033 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 5 Holland would yield, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7 Holland, would you care to yield to Senator 8 Leichter? 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Yes, he 11 will, sir. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 13 you've addressed what is my concern about this 14 bill is where we pass this bill and we tell the 15 communities, well, if you have a surge in your 16 welfare loads and the administrative costs 17 increase, we're going to help you, but we're not 18 putting any money in. So, you know, you may get 19 it some time in the future. 20 Is that a fair thing to do? Is 21 that a sensible thing to do? 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: I think it's 23 fair, Senator, because they have been asking us 7034 1 to do this for a number of years and, if we're 2 successful in getting it passed this year, then 3 we'll fight over the money implementation next 4 March, and hopefully be successful. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator, 6 when you say that the localities have been 7 asking us to do this, they've been saying do it 8 with money, not with good wishes. I mean they 9 didn't -- they didn't say, please send us your 10 concern. They said, Send us your money, right? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: I understand, 12 but we were unsuccessful in getting it done 13 before this. We were unsuccessful in getting it 14 done before this budget of April 1st. We want 15 to get it done next year. If we pass this bill, 16 we'll be required to look into the possibility 17 of funding this next year. It's better than 18 doing nothing. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 20 as far as the localities are concerned, this is 21 exactly next to nothing. They're -- they're 22 coming here saying, Help us. I think they 23 probably make a fairly good -- good case. 7035 1 You're saying, Well, I'm going to do what -- it 2 reminds me of Alice in -- in Wonderland, where 3 Alice -- where Alice was told, You can always 4 have jam tomorrow, but never today. Well, we 5 know your problem, we -- we really feel sorry 6 for you, and maybe we'll do something about it 7 one day. I mean the bill doesn't amount to 8 anything, does it? 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, it's 10 supported, you probably know this, by the New 11 York City -- I'm sorry, supported by New York 12 City, New York Public Welfare Association and 13 the New York State Association of Counties. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 15 you would yield for one more question. You 16 certainly have distinguished sponsorship in the 17 Assembly and it has distinguished sponsorship in 18 the Senate, I want to make it clear. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Thank you, 20 sir. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is that -- did 22 Assemblyman Tallon indicate he was going to pass 23 it? 7036 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Senator, 3 I guess the justification for the bill is that, 4 if we get it into law in this fashion, then 5 maybe we'll put more pressure on us next year to 6 put it in the budget. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Well said. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 10 Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: Very briefly, on 12 the bill. 13 This is a good bill. It 14 certainly allows for many other things to 15 happen, some of them awaiting introduction in 16 this house for consideration, and I would urge 17 all my colleagues to support it. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 23 the roll. 7037 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1465, by member of the Assembly Brodsky, 7 Assembly Bill Number 5673-A, Local Finance Law. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 14 this is a bill which, as we've heard, has 15 already passed the Assembly. I see no point in 16 laying it aside constantly. Is there a question 17 which could be addressed at this time? 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can you give 19 an explanation? 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, this 21 amends the water pollution control revolving 22 fund. It's making necessary changes to comply 23 with the federal requirements. It allows the 7038 1 localities to execute a grid note, in other 2 words, a single bond for all the improvements to 3 the municipality's sewer district, and the money 4 would be advanced at the time it was actually 5 needed, the interest would start accruing from 6 the time the money is advanced, not from the 7 time the bond is actually issued. 8 This is a procedure which is done 9 privately many times which allows you to get a 10 line of credit and borrow what you need and pay 11 what you need at the time. It's a good 12 correction, will save the localities and the EFC 13 some monies, and there's no objection to it. 14 It's passed the Assembly, and it's something 15 that should be done. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 19 Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would Senator 21 Johnson yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 23 Johnson, would you care to yield to Senator 7039 1 Leichter? 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He will. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 5 Johnson, does this affect in any way the bidding 6 requirements as to municipal notes or bonds? 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: No, it 8 doesn't. That's the same; this just protects 9 the way the money is - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, 11 can't hear you. 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: The answer is 13 no. The answer to your question is no. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 15 you would yield to another question, would these 16 bonds or notes be subject to competitive 17 bidding? 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Whatever the 19 present procedure is, Senator, will remain. All 20 we're saying is, the money can be advanced 21 incrementally and the interest due from that 22 date rather than the entire block being 23 contracted at once. 7040 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. No 2 objection. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Or having 4 multiple bond issues fattening multiple bond 5 dealers. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 may we call up 1449, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 1449, 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 22 Calendar Number 1449, by Senator Daly, Senate 23 Bill Number 6018, New York State Urban 7041 1 Development Corporation Act. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 4 Daly, Senator Leichter is asking for an 5 explanation. 6 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 7 this bill extends the loan powers of the Urban 8 Development Corporation which expire on July 9 1st, 1993 for two years. 10 It also increases the number of 11 directors for UDC from 9 to 11. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 17 President, on the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 19 Leichter to speak on the bill. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me first 21 deal with what I think is a minor aspect of the 22 bill which doesn't bother me that much, in 23 increasing the membership of the board of 7042 1 directors by providing for an appointee of the 2 Majority Leader of this house and the Speaker of 3 the Assembly. 4 I think -- I think that's good 5 although I wish that provision had also been 6 made for the Minority Leaders of the respective 7 houses to have an appointment. I think it's 8 good because the UDC has really become a 9 government within a government, and that leads 10 me to the second point and why I'm going to 11 oppose the bill is to extend its borrowing 12 powers. 13 UDC really has become, as I said, 14 a supergovernment that involves itself in numer 15 ous communities in the state in developments, in 16 projects, with extremely little control. Their 17 expenditures are outrageous. I'm going to be 18 issuing a report soon which will show you 19 enormous sums that the Urban Development 20 Corporation has spent on the so-called 42nd 21 Street Development Project which has gone 22 absolutely nowhere. 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 7043 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 2 Daly, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR DALY: Will the Senator 4 yield? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7 Leichter, will you yield? 8 SENATOR DALY: Senator, I think I 9 heard you say it extends UDC's loan -- borrowing 10 powers. This bill does not extend UDC's 11 borrowing powers. It extends its loan powers; 12 in other words, its power to give loans, not to 13 borrow money. I just want to make that point. 14 Does the Senator understand that? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I - 16 I'm glad you corrected me in that respect, 17 because I did misspeak. But even its loan 18 powers, I think, are suspect. I'm going to be 19 issuing another report on a program that the UDC 20 has had, a program that was supposed to help 21 minority businesses, that has been where they 22 make loans that has been an appallingly slipshod 23 program, lost money, hasn't achieved its 7044 1 purpose. 2 I'm sorry to say that I think the 3 oversight of the Urban Development Corporation 4 by this Legislature has been really in 5 sufficient. We ought to be looking at it. We 6 ought to see what they do. We ought to see 7 where do these contracts go. I'd like to have 8 somebody check more carefully. Who are the bond 9 counsels? Who gets the insurance? What are 10 these projects? To what extent is there local 11 input, is there local control over these 12 projects? 13 But above all, how are we making 14 sure that public monies, and that's really what 15 we're talking about, I mean the UDC doesn't go 16 raise its own monies; they get large 17 appropriations. How is that being spent; how is 18 it being used? 19 Now, we'll of the Majority Leader 20 and the Speaker, their representatives will be 21 on the board, maybe there'll be a little more 22 openness, but I think really much more is 23 required, and I -- I just point out we're 7045 1 dealing with millions and millions and millions 2 of dollars, without any of the controls that we 3 normally impose on governmental agencies, so I 4 wouldn't even call this an incremental step, 5 Senator Daly. 6 I think really so much more needs 7 to be done here, and I'm not -- I'm not willing 8 and ready at this time to give the UDC an 9 extension of any of its powers. Let's have an 10 audit. Let's have an accounting. Let's have an 11 investigation, because it's really called for. 12 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 14 Daly. 15 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, in 16 many ways Senator Leichter and I agree on UDC. 17 However, I would like to make three points. 18 First of all, there is the PACB, 19 the PACB, which has the authority to and has to 20 approve any of the borrowings done by UDC. 21 Secondly, the Assembly is trying 22 to jam down our throats permanentization of the 23 loan powers and we, as you note in this bill, 7046 1 say we'll go as far as two years, but we won't 2 go any further, and I think that's important, 3 Mr. President. 4 Also, the Assembly is not willing 5 -- does not want at this time to put any member 6 of the Legislature on the board, and I agree 7 with the Senator, and that's why we have asked 8 and we are requesting your approval to change 9 the law so that we do have one representative 10 from each house on the board of directors. 11 I think those three points are 12 important. One, PACB does have the authority to 13 have to approve any borrowing. Secondly, we 14 don't want to permanentize; we're saying we'll 15 go another two years, again because we want to 16 keep UDC on a short rein, and that is the 17 purpose of the language in it. That is our 18 approach to controlling UDC and its activities, 19 Mr. President. Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7047 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 5 two, Senators Espada and Leichter recorded in 6 the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 8 Daly. 9 Oh, the bill is passed. 10 SENATOR DALY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. May I move to reconsider the vote by 12 which Calendar Number 1416, Senate 4757-B 13 passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Daly 17 Senate Bill 4757-B, Public Authorities Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 19 the roll on reconsideration. 20 (The Secretary called the roll on 21 reconsideration. ) 22 SENATOR DALY: I will shortly 23 have amendments to that bill. In the meantime, 7048 1 I would like to lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Bill is 3 laid aside. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 6 Secretary will read regular order. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 1469, 8 by the Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly 9 Bill Number 8418, Estates, Powers and Trusts 10 Laws. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1472, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 17 5979, an act to amend the Tax Law, the Labor Law 18 and the Navigation Law. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 21 Saland, explanation, please. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 7049 1 Mr. President, this is an omnibus 2 mandate relief act. The purpose of the bill is 3 to do just as the name would imply, which is to 4 basically try to attempt to give to the term 5 local/state partnership some substance, and what 6 this bill proposes to do with the relief of a 7 number of mandates which, in turn, would 8 translated to somewhere in the area of $1.5 9 billion worth of tax relief to our localities, 10 is to accomplish that which we've heard much 11 talk about during the course of this -- of this 12 past session, and yet been unable to attain. 13 It is, in substantial part, the 14 end product of input from a number of my col 15 leagues, from a series of hearings that myself 16 and Senator Larkin conducted across the state 17 over the course of this session. It basically 18 has six major components. 19 Those components would be 20 reducing local fiscal burdens, permitting 21 localities greater administrative flexibility, 22 reducing the burden of state regulations, 23 eliminating unnecessary state reporting and 7050 1 approval requirements, reforming municipal 2 liability and encouraging local consolidation 3 and cooperation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 Mr. President, I just want to ask 9 Senator Saland one question, if I could. 10 SENATOR SALAND: All right. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Saland, would you yield to Senator Gold? 13 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, is this 15 the same bill as 608-A of last year? 16 SENATOR SALAND: I don't believe 17 it is. It may -- it may have some of the same 18 components, but I don't believe it is. 19 SENATOR GOLD: All right. And 20 the second question is, this is my notes say the 21 Republican version. This is not an agreed bill, 22 is that right? 23 SENATOR SALAND: There are 7051 1 currently three-way negotiations going on 2 dealing with the subject. As you may recall, 3 the Governor earlier this year at the time of 4 the State of the State and thereafter spoke very 5 glowingly about the subject of mandate relief. 6 We're hoping that that can be accomplished in 7 the remaining, if perhaps not hours then days of 8 this session. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: First of all, I - 14 I want to relate to a point that Senator 15 Leichter made earlier today concerning so-called 16 one-house bills, and I think the point he was 17 trying to make was that we didn't resent so much 18 that we had to discuss a bill earlier today by 19 one of our Republican colleagues that had an 20 introductory date of February or March, in 21 July. I think the point was that, when we were 22 working for 15 minutes a day in February, we 23 could have worked an hour a day in February and 7052 1 could have done all your one-house bills then. 2 But with regard to this specific 3 piece of legislation, this bill is opposed by 4 AFSCME and by CSEA. It was opposed, I believe 5 last year also, and I really don't want to get 6 overwhelmed by it, because the bottom line is 7 that there is a true mandate relief bill, I'm 8 sure that everybody will be in favor of it, 9 although, Senator Saland, I'm sure some people 10 over here may decide to vote for it. 11 But the hypocrisy of it all is 12 not Senator Steve Saland. The hypocrisy is that 13 this side of the aisle, day after day has to 14 point out to your side of the aisle each little 15 piece of schtiklauf which you'll explain to 16 them, Senator Saland, what that means that you 17 come up with each day that's a mandated on 18 localities and in each of your cases, when it's 19 your little bill, it's O.K. to mandate on 20 localities and, if you think that that comment 21 is made without back-up, you're wrong because I 22 would -- we are now up to, this is Calendar 23 Number 1472, Senator Saland, and if any of your 7053 1 colleagues want to sit down with any of your 2 press or with your staffs and go from Calendar 3 Number 1 through 1472, I'm willing to bet you, 4 you won't find the Democratic bills that you've 5 let through, few as they may be, with mandates 6 in them, but you're going to find bill after 7 bill sponsored by Republicans in this house 8 which have unfunded mandates upon the 9 localities. But in each case we hear, Well, I 10 mean, but there'll be money for that. We'll 11 find money for that, or as somebody said, let 12 them skim tax, I still can't believe that one of 13 you people put that in your memo, that that's 14 how you're going to raise $100 million by 15 skimming taxes. 16 But the point is that Senator 17 Leichter really was correct. This is the wrong 18 day, July 3rd, to start by negotiating out on 19 the floor. Senator Saland, I believe in my 20 heart that you would love to see a local mandate 21 relief bill, there's no doubt in my mind. I 22 also -- there's no doubt in my mind, Senator 23 Saland, that you have a very fine mind and I'd 7054 1 like that mind off of this floor negotiating a 2 bill that we can pass, not standing here and 3 hoping, well, there are -- the Democrats in the 4 Assembly are now going to see that this house 5 passed a bill. This was not this house. The 6 Democrats who control the other house know that 7 you can pass anything you want and it doesn't 8 help your negotiating position or hurt it 9 whether you pass it or you don't pass it. All 10 you do is wind up wasting a lot of people's 11 time. 12 Now, I have heard just moments 13 ago that the Majority Leader of the New York 14 State Assembly has had the courtesy to come 15 before that chamber and announce that the 16 Assembly intends to work a little bit more 17 today, end at a reasonable time and come back 18 tomorrow and work through 'til we do our work. 19 All right? 20 I would think, if that's what 21 they are going to do, that who knows, at some 22 point we may decide that we are going to treat 23 this house like human beings and set up some 7055 1 kind of a schedule and work out our problems. 2 But how do you do that if we got a calendar full 3 of things which are on the calendar for no other 4 reason than for people to take positions and 5 make speeches and not get any real laws passed? 6 When we do one-house bills in 7 July, we're not making laws. We're not doing 8 anything. We're doing nothing except things 9 which I start to resent very much and other 10 people do also. 11 So I'm not going to read the 12 memos. You've been through these memos before. 13 It's no secret where the opposition and where 14 the support comes from and, Senator Saland, it 15 would seem to me that there are two things that 16 can really happen: You can use your good 17 offices, which I happen to respect, and maybe we 18 can get a bill that becomes a law and, number 19 two, you can convince some of your colleagues on 20 that side of the aisle who I know respect you 21 very much, to stop putting in their bills which 22 are local unfunded mandates. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7056 1 Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill. 3 Permit me to say, I certainly appreciate Senator 4 Gold's comments. He is certainly a most capable 5 representative of the chair, the Minority 6 Leader, and does his job very, very well. But 7 taking his comments and those of Senator 8 Leichter perhaps to their logical conclusion, 9 one would assume that what should be done is 10 during the first week of January, we should have 11 all bills agreed upon and at that time pass all 12 the bills and then spend the rest of our time 13 doing whatever it is that we have to do in order 14 to obtain some type of a budget agreement. 15 The reality is, as I mentioned in 16 my opening comments, Senator Larkin as the 17 chairman of Local Governments Committee, myself 18 as the vice-chair of the Legislative Commission 19 on State and Local Relations, conducted a series 20 of hearings statewide that concluded some two or 21 three weeks ago. It wasn't until after we had 22 concluded that series of hearings that we were 23 able to put together the bill that is currently 7057 1 before the house, and the reality is that that 2 bill is supported by all of the municipal 3 organizations, the Association of Towns, the New 4 York State Conference of Mayors and Municipal 5 Officials, the Association of Counties, all with 6 memos strongly in support of the bill. 7 I certainly -- I don't feel that 8 any member who has been involved in the putting 9 together of this bill has anything to apologize 10 for. I think it certainly makes a statement of 11 where we're coming from. I think it remains to 12 be seen whether those in the other house and 13 whether the Governor can come to grips with what 14 we believe is a relatively simple matter and yet 15 get beyond the stage of paying lip service. 16 There should be little or no 17 reason not to support this bill, and even in 18 memos to which -- to which Senator Gold referred 19 deals with one small part of the bill, I believe 20 the part dealing with asbestos removal and 21 municipal contracts for roofing and the language 22 in this bill is supported by the roofing 23 unions. 7058 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 3 Connor. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 I realize that the whole concept 7 of mandate relief has a certain cachet and has 8 for the last few years in tough economic times, 9 times of budgetary constraint on the state level 10 and on the local and municipal level. 11 But I think we have to examine 12 each sort of mandate that we relieve and see 13 what its purpose and from whence it arose. Some 14 ten years ago, I was the chair of a task force 15 that conducted hearings around this state on the 16 problems of asbestos and the problem of asbestos 17 in public buildings, in school districts. Also 18 the hearings featured medical testimony and 19 expert testimony about the problem of asbestos 20 exposure and the health conditions it causes. 21 Very relatively small exposure to 22 asbestos fibers causes asbestosis, which impairs 23 lung functioning and is ultimately fatal. It 7059 1 causes various types of cancers, which are 2 fatal, and literally in any given contaminated 3 area, there could be millions of virtually 4 invisible asbestos fibers, and it takes but the 5 inhalation of one of them to cause these 6 conditions. 7 There were, both locally in the 8 city of New York and on the state level, 9 attempts to remedy the asbestos problem and they 10 were two-fold. One was to provide for abatement 11 programs, and the second one was to make sure 12 that the people who were doing the abatement 13 work were qualified to remove asbestos because 14 unqualified, untrained workers removing asbestos 15 only enhance the pollution of the area. If 16 asbestos is removed improperly, the fibers are 17 spread throughout a building and, in some cases, 18 throughout whole neighborhoods when they took 19 off roofing materials, and so on, and we've all 20 experienced from Love Canal in that end of the 21 state, to problems in New York City what can 22 happen when you contaminate a whole 23 neighborhood. Indeed, in my district, lead 7060 1 contamination in the soil and playgrounds and 2 whole neighborhoods is now a major problem. So 3 we provided that this asbestos abatement work, 4 asbestos removal, had to be done by specially 5 licensed and trained contractors whose workers 6 were trained. 7 This bill, and because of this 8 most of the public employee unions, AFSCME, C.C. 9 37, CSEA, are in opposition to it, would exempt 10 local governments and public authorities from 11 the requirements of our asbestos abatement 12 criteria and allow them to do the work, quote, 13 in-house with their own employees, not people 14 licensed to deal with asbestos. 15 Would they do it well? Well, let 16 me tell you something, my colleagues. We're all 17 dying from asbestos exposure in the LOB. 18 Thirteen or fourteen years ago OGS issued a 19 report, after studying the problem that the 20 whole LOB under those roofing tiles in your 21 office, those ceiling tiles, has friable 22 asbestos, the most contaminating, the most 23 dangerous form of asbestos. It's in your 7061 1 office. It's in your staff's offices in the 2 LOB, it's throughout, and if you go into those 3 utility closets in the hallway across from your 4 office, it's not even covered by ceiling tiles. 5 You can see it flaking, falling down when you 6 open those doors. 7 What did OGS do about it? They 8 issued a report on asbestos containment in the 9 LOB, and they said no one can go in those 10 utility rooms to work without it being enclosed 11 in a special air-sealed bubble, without the 12 workers wearing all sorts of breathing 13 equipment. I have seen every year dozens of 14 times telephone company workers and electrical 15 workers in there tinkering around with the door 16 wide open, with the fibers coming out into the 17 hallway. I've seen that every year. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 20 Saland. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Would Senator 22 Connor yield, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I'm 7062 1 sorry? 2 SENATOR SALAND: Would Senator 3 Connor yield, please? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 5 Connor, would you yield? 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, I will 7 yield. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Only for purposes 9 of brevity, because I know some folks on your 10 side of the aisle feel this has been going on 11 indefinitely. Your comments are certainly 12 pointed and well taken, but you understand this 13 is -- this only deals with roofing going on 14 outside of the building. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: I understand. 16 SENATOR SALAND: There is nothing 17 that's going to fall inside, nothing that's 18 going to be in any closets. 19 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I 20 understand, yes. 21 SENATOR SALAND: What's your 22 question? What's your question? You do 23 understand that? 7063 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes. 2 SENATOR SALAND: O.K. I thought we 3 could move things up a little bit. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, I 5 have the floor. Thank you. 6 So asbestos certainly is 7 invidious. It's damaging to health; it's 8 damaging to your health. It's doing it right 9 now when you go back to your office because 10 those fibers get caught up in ventilation shafts 11 and you all laugh, you all laugh, but it's a 12 serious problem that our leadership, our 13 leadership in both houses, has not addressed. 14 Their offices are over here, by and large, in 15 the Capitol. 16 Outside, when you remove roofing 17 materials, there is a whole protocol that 18 regards -- that requires step by step that it be 19 done in a certain way and sealed because those 20 fibers can get into the air and, as I said 21 before, there is -- there has been experience 22 where whole neighborhoods, whole neighborhoods 23 have been contaminated with asbestos fibers for 7064 1 the outside work. 2 And similarly the disposal of 3 that material that's removed is subject to a 4 whole series of protocols, that contractors and 5 workers are trained to do, the people who do 6 asbestos removal. This bill would exempt local 7 government, municipalities and public 8 authorities, from employing those trained 9 people, those experts. They do it with their 10 own in-house employees. 11 Now, frankly, a large portion of 12 the asbestos problem, the unremoved, unabated 13 asbestos roofing material, exists in public 14 buildings, in schools. And is it expensive to 15 do? Yes. But the only safe way to remove it is 16 that expensive way, and to say if they do it in 17 house, it's cheaper and they could get a lot 18 more done. 19 It's not just the problem in 20 removing the material. You have a worse 21 pollution problem if the removal isn't conducted 22 properly. It's safer to leave the asbestos 23 roofing materials there than it is to remove it 7065 1 improperly. Obviously, the safest thing to do 2 is to properly remove it, and I don't think that 3 these in-house employees that there's any 4 assurance the in-house employees of public 5 authorities and local municipalities have the 6 expertise and knowledge or have even been 7 appraised of what the danger is. 8 Another thing we uncovered years 9 ago were workers who were sent in to remove 10 asbestos who weren't even told what it was, that 11 it was asbestos, weren't even told what the 12 threats were; they weren't told what precautions 13 they should take. I've seen those same kinds of 14 workers working in the LOB. I've gone into 15 those rooms and said as recently as a year ago, 16 to a phone worker, You know, that's asbestos, 17 you're not supposed to be in here without a 18 mask. This door is not supposed to be open 19 polluting all of our hallways. Actually had one 20 guy walk off the job and one union refuse to do 21 any more work in there. If that's the kind of 22 care we in our own house take with respect to 23 asbestos exposure, imagine what less 7066 1 sophisticated local entities are going to do 2 with it. 3 This bill would say it's all 4 theirs to handle in their own way with their own 5 in-house employees, and I'm opposed to it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7 Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President, I rise on this bill, and I'm still 10 not sure what I'm going to do, but I wonder. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Excuse 12 me. Senator Saland, why do you rise? 13 SENATOR SALAND: I'll yield to 14 Senator Dollinger. I didn't realize he was 15 waiting to speak. I wanted to respond to 16 Senator Connor's comments, but - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 18 Dollinger, would you yield? 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll yield 20 the floor to the sponsor if the sponsor wants to 21 to the last comments respond. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 23 Senator Dollinger, I appreciate the courtesy. 7067 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 2 Dollinger yields. Senator Saland. 3 SENATOR SALAND: I wouldn't want 4 the body to misunderstand anything that Senator 5 Connor may have said. One might be led to 6 believe that somehow or other, based upon his 7 comments, that there are no standards involved 8 with this bill. 9 Let me assure you, if you want to 10 take a look at the bill, and I believe the 11 language is contained in section 5, you will 12 observe that nobody gets a free ride. The OSHA 13 standards which requires -- which require 14 training of those people who are going to remove 15 the asbestos is what is required here. 16 Incidentally, most of this work 17 is done, not in-house, by in-house people. It's 18 done by roofing contractor union employees who 19 favor this bill, who are concerned about working 20 on a roof with an area that's enclosed, with 21 hoses all over the place, where they're at risk, 22 people who are concerned about wearing those 23 suits that they might be required to wear that 7068 1 OSHA doesn't require in all circumstances, and 2 also it's the very same standard, not a 3 different standard, the very same standard 4 that's currently applied, the OSHA requirement 5 where we're talking private roofing contracts. 6 So I wouldn't want anybody to 7 misunderstand or somehow to think this is a 8 totally laissez faire operation where there are 9 not any requirements. OSHA not exactly renowned 10 as being a wimpy, sort of disinterested 11 organization requires the training and imposes 12 the standards that have to be met. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. President, 17 will Senator yield just to one question, then 18 I - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 20 Saland, would you yield for one question? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, and I 22 again thank Senator Dollinger for his courtesy. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He will, 7069 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, is 3 there an appropriation attached to this bill? 4 SENATOR SALAND: No appropriation 5 attached to the bill, I do not believe, Senator 6 Dollinger. Basically what we're talking here 7 is, in effect, a reduction of certain require 8 ments. Were there, in fact, to be any costs 9 associated with the bill, they'd be 10 significantly outweighed by the savings which 11 are identified by the bill. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So I 13 understand it, this is mandate relief but there 14 are no funds, sort of unfunded mandate relief, 15 it's a real thing? 16 SENATOR SALAND: No, for 17 instance, your local governments and school 18 districts would save probably somewhere in the 19 area of 175 million dollars. That's the savings 20 we're talking about by reason of the current 21 asbestos standards that they're required to 22 adhere to. There's a host, probably somewhere 23 in the area of about 40 different mandates that 7070 1 are addressed in here, each of which has some 2 different fiscal impact which translates to a 3 savings to local government. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 6 Stachowski, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: You asking 8 questions? 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I was going 11 to ask just one. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 13 Dollinger was asking his one question. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I wanted to 15 ask a question; I thought he was through, but go 16 ahead. I'll wait. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 18 Dollinger, you have the floor. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, O.K., 20 Mr. President, I got the answer I was looking 21 for. 22 When the issue of funded or 23 mandate relief comes up, Mr. President, I guess 7071 1 it always perks my ears up. It's one of those 2 little catchy things that ends up on a key card 3 pro or con, you know, Dollinger favored mandate 4 relief or didn't favor mandate relief or voted 5 for or against mandate relief and, of course, 6 they leave off the fact that some time in this 7 chamber I proposed the Governor's mandate relief 8 bill which would have saved local communities 9 billions of dollars, but that bill didn't quite 10 go very far, voted down on a voice vote, so I 11 guess we're not talking about funded mandate 12 relief. We're talking about a series of things 13 we can do, and I sat in on one of the hearings 14 in Rochester, and I applaud some of the things 15 you're trying to do. But when you end up 16 shifting 30 or 40 variables in a bill, it 17 represents some interesting dilemmas. So what I 18 did is I did just a little lottery here and just 19 put my finger down on it and said let's look at 20 section 117 of the bill, which requires state 21 agencies -- this is according to the sponsor's 22 memo -- to consider local government petitions 23 for mandate relief and flexibility. 7072 1 So I took a look at Section 117 2 and this is where, quite frankly, Mr. President, 3 the question of whether this really is mandate 4 relief or whether this is just mandating a whole 5 bureaucracy in this state to spend a ton of time 6 doing something that they're not currently doing 7 is an interesting question. 8 Just run through the section, 9 page 54 in the bill, Section 43, it starts off 10 petitions for rule changes, doesn't say local 11 governments can file the petition. It says a 12 person can file a petition. That means anybody, 13 anybody doesn't like a regulation can send a 14 petition to the state of New York to any one of 15 the agencies asking them to take a look at the 16 rules and regulations. 17 I don't know, a hundred a year, a 18 thousand a year, 18 million people in this 19 state, maybe several thousand a year flooding 20 into our agencies, all different kinds of 21 agencies, asking them, according to the rule, 22 according to this proposed law, to consider 23 amending or repealing their rules. 7073 1 What are the bases for doing 2 that? Well, the first one is, they're based on 3 inadequate statutory authority. Quite simply, 4 if a rule or regulation is based on inadequate 5 statutory authority, it's unenforceable. That's 6 a simple principle of law. I'm sure most of us 7 can appreciate that. You don't enact rules that 8 are not based on statutory authority. If you 9 do, you can just challenge them in the courts. 10 It says imposes excessive costs 11 on regulated parties. I think that's an 12 interesting one. I'd leave that one there. 13 Says they're outdated; I think that you should 14 always have agencies looking at them again. 15 Says they're not clearly written. I'm not so 16 sure what that means. It says does not include 17 provisions for making the rules sufficiently 18 feas... flexible to meet the particular unique 19 needs of those who must comply with it. 20 What that suggests to me is that 21 this is an admonition to our agencies that you 22 should write rules which are specific, and 23 unique to specific situations. What that 7074 1 suggests to me, Mr. President, is that isn't a 2 rule; that says that you have nothing but 3 exceptions. You have lots of little unique and 4 individual places that you'll simply create a 5 whole bunch of exceptions for all the people 6 that come in and file a request to have their 7 particular needs set. 8 So we'll end up with something 9 less than statewide regulation. We'll end up 10 with a bunch of little regulations trying to 11 meet all these little unique needs. 12 Then it says, or they're 13 duplicative or inconsistent with other state or 14 federal rules. We have a whole body of law that 15 applies in those instances when you can simply 16 say, if they're inconsistent with federal law 17 the supremacy clause takes care of them, they're 18 preempted; they're gone. Not a real difference 19 from the law, or they do not fulfill the 20 requirements of law. That falls back to the 21 first section. If they're not following the 22 requirements of law, they're unenforceable; you 23 don't have to worry about it. 7075 1 Then what does it say? Well, it 2 says you file the petition; you put all this 3 stuff in the petition; you spend all your time 4 doing this, you submit it to the agency and then 5 they have an obligation within a certain period 6 of time to respond, and they say, Oh, yeah, 7 we'll do something or we won't do anything. 8 But what happens if they do 9 nothing? Well, there's no enforcement provision 10 in the reg, in this proposed law, so the agency 11 doesn't really have to do anything, except, and 12 I will predict that, if this bill passes, if 13 this some day becomes law, every one of our 14 agencies are going to show up at our doorstep 15 and ask for dozens of new employees so that they 16 can respond to this request, so that they can 17 set up an office which will be their regulation 18 review office to handle the hundreds, if not 19 thousands of requests that are going to pour 20 into state agencies asking them to do this. 21 That's going to generate a huge 22 cost, a huge cost for us. It may look like 23 we're creating mandate relief for someone else 7076 1 or that we're giving them relief from the 2 flexibility to create flexibility in regulation 3 but to get through this process, we're going to 4 have a need, in my opinion, for hundreds of new 5 employees to handle the thousands of requests. 6 These are detailed, complicated judgments, 7 complicated legal analyses. I think it will be 8 a bonanza for lawyers, and I think you're going 9 to end up in a position where you'll have great 10 frustration because there's no enforcement 11 provision at the end of this. You're going to 12 have someone go through the process. You're 13 going to raise their expectation that they'll 14 get relief, and when the agency basically says 15 six or eight months later, yes, we missed the 16 time period and, Oh, by the way, we've decided 17 not to respond, you don't leave them with any 18 reasonable legal alternative to sue them to 19 force them to do it. 20 You don't create mandate relief. 21 You simply create the need to create a whole 22 bigger bureaucracy to deal with the whole new 23 series of problems that you create. 7077 1 Mr. President, I see that this 2 bill has some very good things in it. I 3 appreciate the sponsor trying to package it all 4 together. I understand the complexity of that, 5 and frankly, I'm probably going to vote for it. 6 But my gut reaction is that, if you look at the 7 individual items in this, you'll see that it's 8 not so much creating mandate relief as it's 9 simply creating a whole new level of bureaucracy 10 in this government under the pretext of trying 11 to create mandate relief for some other 12 government. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 14 Saland, do you wish to respond? 15 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 16 certainly appreciate Senator Dollinger's 17 comments, and I believe his concern with regard 18 to flexibility can be readily addressed just in 19 terms of what we're attempting to do here is to 20 make sure that there's the ability to handle the 21 unique situation, one in which many regulations 22 require or afford the ability for a waiver 23 mechanism. Not all do, and we basically wanted 7078 1 to make sure that that mechanism is available; 2 and secondly, I would think that instead of 3 burdening the state in court with Article 78 4 proceedings, which would be the only measure by 5 which some of these things could be 6 accomplished, in effect, working it out in a 7 less than adversarial situation by way of a 8 petition process would, in the long run, be a 9 less costly process and I don't -- your -- I 10 certainly respect your concerns. I don't know 11 if they necessarily would come to fruition. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 13 Stachowski, did you have a question? 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would 15 Senator Saland yield for a question, please? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 17 Saland, would you yield? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: In your 20 response to Senator Connor, you said that -- how 21 much did you say the school districts and local 22 governments would save on that? 23 SENATOR SALAND: 175 million. 7079 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: You said 2 they save $175 million and that the work will be 3 done by the same people that are doing it now 4 who all support the bill. 5 SENATOR SALAND: No, I think I - 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: That's what 7 you said. 8 SENATOR SALAND: I said there are 9 people who are currently doing that work who are 10 union roofing contractors. It's not done - 11 it's generally not done in-house and they are 12 regulated by OSHA. It's not, somehow this 13 unfettered "we're going to send the janitor up 14 on the roof and have him remove asbestos." 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: But pretty 16 much, you say -- O.K., it's not exactly the same 17 time people, it's the union people that are 18 going to do the work under OSHA standards. Now, 19 maybe I missed something because I know that a 20 lot has happened, but most of the focuses are on 21 places where President Clinton hasn't been so 22 fortunate in a rapid turn-over and a great 23 change in the way things operate, but if I'm not 7080 1 mistaken in the last 12 years, OSHA has spent 2 more time chasing volunteer fire companies and 3 paid fire companies for the jackets they wear 4 and the air packs they use and the boots they 5 wear to cover fires than they have done on 6 enforcement of work place safety standards, and 7 maybe I missed it, and maybe you can tell me yes 8 or no, but has there been such a change now, 9 that OSHA is once again checking up on these 10 work place safety standards, so that because of 11 that, there will be -- the workers will be safe 12 and we shouldn't pay any attention to these 13 memos, because OSHA will be making sure that the 14 workers are safe and that these memos really 15 aren't necessary and they probably shouldn't 16 have been submitted? 17 SENATOR SALAND: I didn't know 18 OSHA had stopped, and if you're -- if you're 19 aware of that, I think you should really come to 20 the forefront with it and make sure that the 21 immediate world is aware of it. I think they're 22 doing far more than concerning themselves with 23 volunteer firemen which I perhaps believe 7081 1 they're being a bit excessively zealous on, but 2 I suggest to you that to assume that OSHA would 3 have no interest or that people such as yourself 4 if you felt somehow or other they were doing an 5 inadequate job wouldn't have the ability to 6 apprise OSHA of a glaring oversight on their 7 part for failing to regulate this area, you 8 know, to me that sort of confounds both logic 9 and reality. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 13 Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 15 Saland yield to a question, please? Am I next? 16 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, 17 Senator. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, I 19 apologize, I don't mean to be picayune, by 20 pulling out one section, but it happened to be 21 the one that I decided to take a look at. My 22 question is, you talked about negotiating a 23 resolution of these regulations, but isn't the 7082 1 one lesson that we've learned in the last two 2 weeks, ten days, 24 hours, six days, that 3 someone has to have a hammer somewhere so that, 4 when the negotiations break down, someone can 5 lower the hammer and try to get this process, 6 force someone to actually do this process under 7 penalty of law, penalty of public opinion, and 8 doesn't the absence of any legal alternative in 9 this section, doesn't it render it meaningless? 10 People will go through it, they'll find out that 11 they can't reach resolution and then, oh, by the 12 way, there is nothing else you can do; you've 13 given it a try but you don't have the ability to 14 take them to court and force them to do it. 15 Doesn't that indicate that this will end up 16 being pretty much useless? 17 SENATOR SALAND: My assumption 18 would be that this would occur within the 19 context of an interested party or an interested 20 locality or some level of government having 21 something that they have a particular issue that 22 they wish to resolve, and I would assume that in 23 lieu of bringing -- bringing on an Article 78 7083 1 proceeding in an adversarial situation, that 2 they would attempt to try and resolve it by way 3 of working it out in a conciliatory or 4 mediation-like fashion. Assuming they could 5 not, they would still have that remedy. 6 I would have to think that the 7 people on the other side, the people who were 8 providing the regulations, would be well aware 9 of what the process was all about, would 10 understand where the applicant or petitioner was 11 coming from, and would understand that they'd be 12 prepared to, if necessary, go Article 78. 13 The Article 78, as you know and I 14 know, is certainly a costly and time-consuming 15 process, but I would assume everybody would 16 prefer avoiding by way of working these out in a 17 conciliatory fashion. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I concur that 19 conciliation is always the way to go but, 20 Senator, as I think you and I know, at some 21 point somebody has got to have a hammer to make 22 these things happen. My fear is, and again I 23 don't mean to be picayune, I think this bill has 7084 1 some very good points in it, I don't simply pick 2 this out to see whether it really will do the 3 job, and my sense is that you will have a 4 provision which people will utilize once, get 5 through the process and figure out, Gee, the 6 state agency, as Senator Stafford -- I'm 7 reminded of Senator Stafford who constantly 8 stands here and says the state of New York 9 doesn't respond, they want to litigate, they 10 force those poor towns in the Adirondacks to do 11 this. They're going to force -- the state of 12 New York is going to force this poor community 13 that you just mentioned, this hypothetical 14 community, they'll say, We don't want to change 15 because it's going to cost us money, it's going 16 to take us time, and everybody will sit down and 17 say, Gee, we had a wonderful experience. We 18 tried to conciliate. It didn't work. We're 19 going to go to the lawyer and they say, Can we 20 sue 'em now? And the answer is, Gee, there is 21 no provision for suing them to force them to do 22 it, and I -- unfortunately, you may end up with 23 a procedure that ends up being a form of a cruel 7085 1 hoax because you raised the expectations but 2 leave them at the doorstep and don't actually 3 get them to bring them in to get the kind of 4 conciliated result that you seek. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7 President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I just want to 11 point out one aspect of the bill that 12 particularly concerns me. I think others have 13 been pointed out, and I think this bill is going 14 to fall very far short of its goal and, indeed, 15 in many instances, I think it's going to end up 16 costing some of the communities in this state. 17 But I'm particularly concerned 18 about the provision that the Commission on 19 Correction, which has supervision and oversight 20 over the detention facilities, both state and 21 local, will lose the power to direct change. 22 We've had instances where some of the local 23 jails failed to meet basic human standards. 7086 1 I believe Dutchess County had a 2 problem, Senator Saland. That must be in your 3 district; many years ago where the commission 4 had to go in and had to point out that the 5 conditions were so terrible that changes needed 6 to be made. 7 Now, you're taking away the power 8 of that commission to direct those changes and 9 saying they can issue advisory opinions. Well, 10 you know, some sheriff who is mismanaging a 11 jail, he gets an advisory opinion. You know 12 what he's going to do with it? Right into the 13 nearest waste basket. 14 That was an important commission 15 that we set up. It's lost, unfortunately, a lot 16 of its power, a lot of its efficacy, but now 17 you're going and really cutting it off at its 18 knees and saying that it loses its control and 19 power over these local facilities. 20 I think that's very un 21 fortunate. You know, mandate relief is great. 22 It sounds good, but there are many things that 23 need to be done. There are many times that we 7087 1 do have to tell a community what it has to do 2 and, as Senator Gold rightly pointed out, nobody 3 imposes more mandates than the Majority. I mean 4 Senator Maltese still has a bill on the calendar 5 that's going to cost the city of New York 6 millions and millions of dollars if -- if that 7 bill were passed and, as was pointed out, it 8 would also cost other localities if they go from 9 a two-person police car to a one-person police 10 car. 11 Talk about expensive mandates. 12 You have no shame, you'll vote for this bill and 13 you say, We're against mandates, and then you're 14 going to spend the rest of the day imposing 15 mandate upon mandate upon mandate. 16 But there are some mandates, 17 there are some functions that are important. 18 One of them is to see that the detention 19 facilities meet basic human conditions. We 20 learned after Attica what it means when our 21 facilities, when our prisons fail to meet those 22 conditions, and that's why we set up the 23 Commission of Correction and to take that power 7088 1 away, I think is a serious mistake. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explain my 8 vote. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 10 Stachowski. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: To explain 12 my vote. 13 I would love to support a mandate 14 relief bill. I wish this bill didn't have the 15 asbestos section. I appreciate Senator Saland's 16 comments on asbestos, but unfortunately, in my 17 area, the OSHA inspectors aren't noted for being 18 on all the work sites and that the construction 19 industry for years has had a major complaint of 20 unsafe conditions that when you file a 21 complaint, go through the formal process of 22 filing a complaint, they can't get the proper 23 OSHA inspections. 7089 1 So with that kind of exposure, 2 possibly to our employees in the local 3 government sector, I've got a major concern, 4 because that concern was brought to my attention 5 by the local -- by the unions that represent 6 those local people, and I don't think if it was 7 such a great procedure and that if OSHA 8 regulations were so good for them and that they 9 were as safe as it was stated by the sponsor, 10 that these memos would be here in front of us 11 and because of that exposure and because of that 12 human safety section of this bill, unfortunately 13 I'm going to find myself voting in the 14 negative. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 17 Stavisky. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Explain my 19 vote. There have been other occasions when we 20 have dealt with asbestos. In 1979, both houses 21 of the Legislature adopted a measure known as 22 the School Asbestos Safety Program which 23 required an inventory of every school in the 7090 1 state to determine whether it contained friable 2 or crumbling asbestos. 3 We did that in the right way. We 4 required the inspection. This house and the 5 Assembly both adopted the legislation which, in 6 this house, was carried by the chairman of the 7 Senate Education Committee. In this 8 legislation, however, we provided funding for 9 the removal of the asbestos through building aid 10 and special asbestos removal aid. 11 I must tell you that, in 12 preparation for this legislation, I reached out 13 to the Mount Sinai School of Medicine 14 Environmental Science personnel. I reached out 15 to the unions which handle asbestos, and I 16 discovered that every former head of the 17 asbestos workers' union had died of lung 18 cancer. 19 It is a highly carcinogenic 20 substance which cannot be entrusted to amateurs 21 for removal. It has to be removed by competent 22 people, not by anyone who may be assigned the 23 job at his or her risk. 7091 1 For this reason, I wish to be 2 recorded in the negative on this legislation. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky 4 votes no. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on -- those recorded in the 7 negative on Calendar Number 1472 are Senators 8 Connor, Espada, Galiber, Gold, Gonzalez, 9 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, 10 Ohrenstein, Onorato, Solomon, Stachowski, 11 Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 43, nays 15. Also 12 Senator Smith in the negative. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 will you call up Calendar Number 1331. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1331, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 19 4446-A, an act to determine the date of birth of 20 Elaine Budoff, a Holocaust survivor. 21 SENATOR GOLD: If you will wait 22 one second. Where is Senator Leichter? 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Last section. 7092 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1306. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1306, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 2020, 12 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in 13 relation to the reinvestment of funds. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: If Senator Spano 17 be kind enough just to explain briefly the "B" 18 print of this bill. We passed the "A" print 19 earlier, and some of us had some concerns, and I 20 believe those concerns may well have been taken 21 care of in the "B" print. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 7093 1 this bill which we debated at length a couple 2 days ago, was recalled, was amended to 3 accommodate some of the concerns that were 4 raised by some of the members here, frankly, as 5 well as some of the members in the other house. 6 We -- what we have done is 7 increased the amount of money that would go to 8 community reinvestment to $49 million per year 9 over a five-year period which comes to a total 10 of $245 million, and we have also increased some 11 of the percentages in terms of the prevalence of 12 unmet need and of mental illness in some of the 13 different areas that are set forth in this 14 legislation, the result of which will be that 15 we'll be able to send some more money to some of 16 the areas that have a real serious problem, 17 namely, the city of New York, as well as to the 18 areas that are affected by consolidation and 19 closure of psychiatric centers and, at the same 20 time, we still have some of the money that would 21 be given to the Commissioner for -- for his 22 decision as to where the balance of it would 23 go. Difference is it goes from 36 percent in 7094 1 the original bill that would be to the 2 Commissioner's discretion to 20 percent in this 3 bill, and that's where it gave us some of the 4 flexibility to help some of the other regions of 5 the state. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes fifty... 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Espada. 13 SENATOR ESPADA: To explain my 14 vote. 15 I think that the term "landmark 16 legislation" is loosely used many times. 17 Certainly we've debated many things back and 18 forth in terms of the needs of real people and 19 this vote cast goes through at least on my part 20 without laying forth or putting forth my 21 feelings that this is, indeed, from the 22 perspective of the homeless, from those that 23 have psychic and emotional pain in our cities 7095 1 and our state, that this is, indeed, overdue 2 landmark legislation. 3 My congratulations to Senator 4 Spano for this, and all the mental health groups 5 and the collaboration of both houses on this 6 bill. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 can we call up Calendar 1463, please. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1463, by member of the Assembly Pheffer, 14 Assembly Bill Number 1019, an act to amend the 15 Tax Law, in relation to evidence of residence. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 17 laid it aside yesterday. I did not lay it aside 18 today. Senator Leichter did. If you'd be kind 19 enough to bear with me one moment. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator 21 Maltese, I wanted to ask you a question on the 22 bill. 23 As I understand it, this bill 7096 1 makes evidence of someone's membership in a 2 religious org... or institution, such as a 3 synagogue, inadmissible proof as to their 4 residence; is that correct? 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 6 the - 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maltese. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: The terminology 9 of the bill indicates that it shall not 10 constitute evidence of residence within the 11 state for tax purposes. Rather than making it 12 inadmissible, it probably makes it of no 13 probative value and not to be considered as a 14 factor by the taxing authority. 15 It applies not only to the -- it 16 applies, as the terms of the bill indicate, any 17 regularly organized church, synagogue or 18 religious organization. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what 20 concerns me, and this was brought to my 21 attention by somebody else, but I think it's a 22 valid point. I can certainly see that you don't 23 want to make such membership conclusive, but you 7097 1 -- your bill provides that no probative value 2 whatsoever can be given to the membership in a 3 synagogue or other religious institution or 4 organization. 5 That, it seems to me, goes too 6 far. I mean you could draft a careful bill 7 which accomplishes your purpose, which I gather 8 is that you want to make sure that, if somebody 9 has moved to Florida but they keep a membership 10 in the church or the synagogue that they 11 belonged to for many years, that in itself 12 should not be the basis for the Tax Department 13 saying, you're still a resident of New York and 14 we're going to tax you. 15 But I don't know why they can't, 16 together with other evidence, take a look at the 17 fact that somebody belongs to a particular 18 religious institution. 19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 20 I think that the purpose of the bill is clear by 21 its terms. There was -- there is not -- should 22 not be a desire on the part of the state to 23 penalize somebody for a religious affiliation or 7098 1 a religious membership. 2 I think that what the -- the 3 rationale behind this bill can best be referred 4 to by reading from a paragraph of a -- a 5 gentleman who was having his tax returns audited 6 by the state, and was advised that his 7 membership in his temple was being considered as 8 a factor to determine residence, even though it 9 was considered as a factor of lower 10 determinative value; and his -- his letter 11 reads, in the applicable portion: 12 "One approach has me 13 particularly up in arms. One of the questions 14 asked by the examiners and stated by 15 conciliation conferees is," quote, "'Is the 16 taxpayer still a member of his New York 17 temple?'" Unquote. And following the letter. 18 Now, I don't care if the taxpayer 19 is a member of a New York country club or if he 20 is a member of a Florida country club, but I 21 look upon a question of religious affiliation, 22 as in the case of Jewish affiliation, as being 23 anti-Semitic at the worst or an illegal act by 7099 1 the state upon religion at the worst. 2 Now, I don't buy that paragraph 3 as completely as I do this one. "I have been a 4 member of my temple for 36 years, have served as 5 its president, served as its finance chairman 6 and served on its board of trustees. If I move 7 to the furthermost corner of the earth, I will 8 still be a member of the temple. How dare 9 anybody question the fact that I might still be 10 a member?" 11 Mr. President, I think this 12 gentleman says it far better than I do. Most 13 people, no matter where they move, still feel a 14 kinship, a tie, a permanent tie, that could 15 never be severed by distance with their temple 16 or their church. 17 This bill seeks to not have that 18 tie, that affiliation, that nostalgia or 19 religious affiliation to be considered as a 20 factor in auditing his tax returns. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Mr. 22 President, Senator Maltese, if you wrote the 23 bill in this fashion based on that letter, now I 7100 1 know why you wrote the bill that way. But with 2 all due respect to the person who wrote that 3 letter, and certainly we do want people, even 4 after they leave this state, and God forbid that 5 they ever should leave the Empire State, but we 6 know it happens, and we certainly want them to 7 remain in religious institutions. But certainly 8 if the Tax Department asks about whether you 9 still belong to a particular institution doesn't 10 mean that they're anti-Semitic or anti-Catholic 11 or whatever. 12 The point is, all I'm trying to 13 point out to you, sir, is that I think that you 14 could achieve your purpose, write a bill that I 15 think would be effective in achieving that 16 purpose and would avoid a veto by the Governor. 17 If you just said that they could not base the 18 residency of somebody solely on the fact that 19 they still belong to a religious institution or 20 organization that was in this state, but I think 21 to say that they could not consider it in toto 22 with other things -- hey, it's really not worth, 23 you know, a protracted debate, but I think you 7101 1 are inviting a veto because I think you've 2 written -- you've written it so broadly. 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 4 in response, I could understand Senator 5 Leichter's worry, apprehension that the Governor 6 might veto this if this were a very substantial 7 factor in the determination of residents' audits 8 by the state of New York Department of Taxation 9 and Finance. 10 But I have a document from that 11 very same department, dated February 17, 1993, 12 that indicates that this is a tertiary factor 13 where it indicates by definition a third ranking 14 of importance. These factors are below 15 secondary in importance and are far below 16 primary in importance, and, as a matter of fact, 17 are some 10 or 15 pages down in importance from 18 the primary factors in considering residence. 19 So I do not believe we are taking 20 a substantial determining factor away from 21 either the state Department of Taxation or any 22 of its agencies. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7102 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me, ayes 9 57, nays one, Senator Galiber recorded in the 10 negative. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 12 passed. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1474,, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 16 Assembly Bill Number 8663, an act to amend the 17 Executive Law. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 20 requested. Senator Wright. 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: The bill 22 provides changes to the name of the Office of 23 Business Permits and Regulatory Assistance and 7103 1 modifies the powers and duties of that office. 2 The bill is consistent with the requests of the 3 Governor in his program bill dealing with this 4 area also. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 6 President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 9 Wright would yield, please. 10 SENATOR WRIGHT: Certainly, Mr. 11 President. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what 13 intrigued me about this bill is that we're going 14 to have this name change of this office which 15 really has no change in functions. I know you 16 make a few changes. You, on the margin, make a 17 few changes, but essentially it's the same 18 office, isn't it? 19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Well, no, I 20 wouldn't -- wouldn't agree with that, Senator. 21 In fact, it's a merger of the Office of 22 Management and Productivity with the Office of 23 Business Permits and Regulatory Assistance. 7104 1 If you will recall, earlier this 2 year, during the budget deliberation, that was a 3 proposed consolidation that we supported in this 4 house, and it was ultimately adopted in the 5 budget. So, in fact, it merges two units within 6 the executive branch and, correspondingly, this 7 title change places a new title and incorporates 8 those new duties in statute. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. One more 10 question, Senator. I -- I didn't read the bill 11 maybe that carefully, but is -- is that 12 consolidation effected by this bill? 13 SENATOR WRIGHT: The 14 consolidation was effected by the authorization 15 in the budget as well as an executive order that 16 the Governor initiated. This bill changes the 17 statutory language to incorporate those changes, 18 and outline the additional duties. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. I 20 understand. Thank you. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect take effect immediately. 7105 1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1476, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 8 6037, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 10 requested. Senator Johnson. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 12 we have on the books a program which permits 13 Onondaga and Rockland Counties to use finger 14 imaging to screen applicants for home relief. 15 They found out that they saved more than twice 16 as much money in the first few months as it cost 17 to install the system, that in Onondaga County 18 alone some 55 people, when they saw they had to 19 have their finger-imaging processed, they simply 20 decided not to apply for the program. In New 21 York City, it was revealed that last year some 22 45 million people cheated the system that they 23 know of, and people are very seldom, when 7106 1 they're caught they're very seldom punished 2 because it's more expensive to prosecute and 3 jail them than just to turn them loose and let 4 them run off with what they've got, their 5 ill-gotten gains. 6 This does not -- not respect the 7 taxpayers' dollars and it certainly doesn't 8 deter people from trying to do it again. This 9 system did deter people in the few experiments 10 that have been tried. In Suffolk County, they 11 know that they're being ripped off and many 12 times Social Services, Medicaid, and so forth. 13 This is a very modest bill 14 really. It doesn't do what we ought to do. It 15 doesn't require the finger-imaging of all people 16 applying for welfare programs but only those on 17 home relief, single men, women, who apply for 18 money and they figure if they get it, they get 19 it if they don't, they don't. They probably 20 have off-the-books jobs and other things, so 21 it's just a little supplemental income. 22 So we're saying let's check these 23 people out, see if they've applied to more than 7107 1 one place. At least let's not give them more 2 than one welfare check to which they're not 3 entitled. 4 Now, with the economic problems 5 facing all of our counties I say and the city of 6 New York, it should be statewide. A bill like 7 that was passed by Senator Holland, but 8 apparently it's not going anywhere in the other 9 house. 10 This is a Suffolk County bill. 11 We do have a Democrat Assemblyman who is 12 interested in putting this bill in the other 13 house. I hope that bill will be filed shortly 14 but, in any event, this bill is before us today 15 and we'd like to respond to the request of the 16 county to give them a chance to save some of 17 their taxpayers' dollars. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, as Senator 21 Johnson indicated, a similar bill was before 22 this house earlier today which dealt with 23 Onondaga and Rockland Counties, and we had a 7108 1 debate on the issue, and Senators Connor and 2 Dollinger, Espada, Galiber, myself, Gonzalez, 3 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, 4 Oppenheimer, Smith all voted in the negative. I 5 don't think anything's changed. The idea still 6 (whispering) stinks. 7 Last section. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr. 14 President, I'd like to explain my vote. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Markowitz 16 is recognized to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator 18 Johnson, the reason why I'm voting against this 19 bill and the other bills of similar nature is 20 because I just find the idea of finger-printing 21 of welfare recipients to be repulsive. To be 22 honest with you, Senator Johnson, I know a lot 23 of very good people that are in a circumstance 7109 1 and a situation, as my family was when I was 2 younger, to have to receive welfare, and I think 3 that there are ways of going about eliminating 4 fraud which we all want to eliminate from the 5 system, not only from people that collect 6 welfare, perhaps people that collect SSI, 7 perhaps -- perhaps doctors that are -- provide 8 Medicaid services, as we continue to see on 9 various programs like 60 Minutes, 48 Hours, and 10 other programs. 11 So it seems to me that if we're 12 about to set up a program of preventing fraud on 13 -- on programs which the state provides money, 14 it seems I would be much more likely to support 15 a bill if it covered the total universe of those 16 that receive benefits and programs provided by 17 public dollars, rather than focus in on only one 18 segment, and that's how I feel, and I -- I would 19 eagerly -- eagerly want to work with you and 20 others on a program that prevents fraud and yet 21 doesn't take away the dignity of people that 22 find themselves in a circumstance that they have 23 to collect welfare and so they can pick 7110 1 themselves up and make their lives whole again. 2 So I vote no on this. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar Number 1476 are 5 Senators Dollinger, Galiber, Gold, Markowitz, 6 Mendez, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, 7 Smith, Stavisky, Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 11. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1477, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 12 6044-A, an act to amend the Election Law. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explanation, 14 please. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 16 requested. Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. My colleagues, the legislation 19 before us takes another step in our efforts to 20 reform the state's election laws. 21 The the measure will increase the 22 maximum civil penalty for political candidates 23 who fail to file their financial disclosures, to 7111 1 require the boards of election to make public a 2 list of those candidates who fail to comply, 3 requires the treasurer of political committees 4 to attest whether or not expenditures have been 5 made independent of the candidates, to close 6 what we believe is a glaring loophole in the law 7 where independent committees come in and make 8 significant expenditures without proper 9 accountability. 10 We also require campaign 11 disclosure statements to be filed on a more 12 timely basis. Those 10-day election statements 13 will have to be filed by overnight mail or in 14 person with the board of elections, and to allow 15 -- require a greater scrutiny as to those 16 campaign -- campaign contributions made to 17 candidates. 18 We also make adjustments in the 19 terms of office of the chairmen of the boards of 20 election in order to have more continuity and to 21 have them file on the same calendar year basis, 22 their terms would be every two-year cycle. 23 Also, and something I believe 7112 1 very strongly in, the language of voter 2 registration forms and absentee ballots are 3 attempted to be made, by this legislation, more 4 understandable to the public-at-large to have, 5 in fact, a plainer, clearer language, more 6 readily understandable, less legalese, in an 7 effort to enhance voter registration and par 8 ticipation. 9 We also, something I also feel 10 very strongly about, in conclusion of my 11 explanation, is that in order to enhance voter 12 participation in this state, we believe it 13 essential that we should begin at an early age 14 and that our classrooms across New York, I 15 believe, have been dismal in their efforts to 16 promote the importance of voting in our New York 17 schools, that we learn a great deal about other 18 countries, other societies, but fail, I believe, 19 to learn enough about the fundamental precepts 20 of our democratic system, and that is the right 21 to vote and the necessity to vote, and we think 22 that can be enhanced by increasing educational 23 voter opportunity in the classroom at a very 7113 1 young age. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 5 know that Senator Connor has some suggestions, 6 very excellent suggestions on how we can make 7 this a better bill. I would like to offer one, 8 and, Senator Nozzolio, I stand up here with a 9 different kind of confidence than I would 10 normally stand up with an amendment because I 11 had the occasion to visit the Senate print shop 12 a few weeks ago, and I was met there by such 13 distinguished people as Senator Larkin, and, 14 Senator Daly, were you there? No, you were -- I 15 didn't think so. But Senator Larkin was there, 16 and, well, I know the very distinguished Senator 17 Kuhl was there, did not have his clubs, neither 18 did I. 19 But I know I'm going to get 20 support from people like that for this amendment 21 because, on that day, we were told how -- I know 22 Senator Libous was there -- everybody on your 23 side is for total open government, and if we're 7114 1 going to reform the Election Law, I think my 2 amendment really has to be a part of it. 3 So, Mr. President, I have an 4 amendment at the desk. I would waive its 5 reading and ask the opportunity to explain it. 6 The amendment is really very simple. It would 7 amend the Public Officers Law to set up an 8 annual mass mailing allotment for each member of 9 the Senate and Assembly. So far, as you can 10 see, that's simple enough. It would provide for 11 three pamphlets per household within a district, 12 100,000 additional sheets of mass mailing within 13 a district, 22,730 first class mailings within a 14 district for each Senator, and in the Assembly 15 the numbers are a little bit different because 16 obviously the size of the districts are 17 different. 18 It also codifies the policy of 19 the 30-day mail blackout prior to elections, but 20 then it goes a little further, and this is where 21 the real election reform comes in, Senator 22 Nozzolio. It would require the Senate of the - 23 the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the 7115 1 Assembly to notify any member in an itemized 2 statement of any items in excess of their 3 allotment if it's been printed or posted, and 4 it's the duty of the member to so notify -- to 5 communicate this with the person or treasurer or 6 entity that they have to deal with, and report 7 it as a contribution to their campaign. Failure 8 to do so would be a misdemeanor. 9 It also amends the Election Law 10 to require any member who receives any mass 11 mailing in excess of their allotment to report 12 the allotment as a contribution in the campaign 13 disclosure filing. 14 Now, we have discussed this issue 15 in 17 different ways 'til Sunday, but I think 16 this really deals with the issue in its most 17 open fashion. If a member of the Legislature is 18 going to use public funds to communicate with 19 constituents about the wonderful things we do, 20 then each person, each of the 211 is a person, 21 and the office should be treated equally among 22 the 211 persons who hold that office. 23 But if a policy is going to exist 7116 1 whereby, in an election year, as was shown by 2 the wonderful charts prepared by Senator 3 Dollinger which we won't bring to the floor 4 because I don't want the roof to fall in, the - 5 if, as those charts indicate, there are 6 additional mailings and additional postage that 7 hits our post office around election time and if 8 it develops that that is in excess of the policy 9 which is three mailings per member, then indeed 10 there is a campaign contribution that the New 11 York State Senate or the New York State Assembly 12 has made to that member, and if we believe that 13 that ought to happen, we should have no shame in 14 telling the public that it happened. 15 I know every member of this 16 Legislature and I know, God bless you, I know 17 that no one would consciously do something that 18 they weren't proud of. So I can only imagine 19 that when we send out these mailings that are 20 way in excess of mailings that other people get, 21 it is something that we are not ashamed of. It 22 is a policy of spending taxpayer money and 23 financing campaigns. 7117 1 It's the same, if you want to 2 label it that in New York or in Rochester or in 3 Syracuse, even in Syracuse, that is campaign 4 financing, back door campaign financing, when 5 you use the public's money to give Senator X 6 extra mailings more than gets Senator Y. 7 And, Senator Nozzolio, in your 8 attempt to reform, if that's your word, the 9 election laws, this has to be a part of it, if 10 we are going to go to the public with clean 11 hands. And so that is what my amendment does, 12 plain and simple. 13 It doesn't tell you in this that 14 we can't do it. It tells you that, if you do 15 it, well, actually, it does say you can't do 16 it. It sets up a standard for the Assembly and 17 the Senate but, if you're going to violate that 18 standard, you must at least recognize you're 19 having an impact on elections. If it becomes an 20 Election Law matter, it becomes a campaign 21 contribution, and it must be reported as such. 22 That is the amendment, and I hope 23 there will be some support for it. 7118 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the 4 amendment. 5 Mr. President, I rise in support 6 of this amendment from Senator Gold. It's 7 probably no surprise, given my activities in 8 this body for the last four months on the issue 9 of mail. And my only rhetorical inquiry to 10 Senator Gold would be, Gee, Senator, did this 11 ever go through the Insurance Committee? 12 And you'd say, why would it go 13 through the Insurance Committee? Well, because 14 my view has always been that, if you use the 15 mail right, if you use that thing the taxpayers 16 paid for, we in this chamber and, frankly, our 17 colleagues in the Assembly and those who scolded 18 me for not taking them to task, we get, by 19 virtue of this office, that form of incumbency 20 insurance. The only thing about it is, Senator, 21 some of us get a little bit more than others. I 22 guess if you're a Republican born before 1977, 23 you get a little bit more and, if you're a 7119 1 Republican that might be under a political 2 attack, you might even get a little bit more 3 than that, but they don't -- that rule is not 4 written. We haven't found that one in writing 5 anywhere. 6 But the moral of the story is, we 7 end up with this little form of insurance for 8 incumbents. I get it, you get it, we all get 9 it. The only people that don't get it, of 10 course, are the people that come to challenge us 11 in those things that we call elections. We get 12 the ability to generate name recognition through 13 the taxpayers. We have this huge taxpayer PAC 14 sitting out there in the form of our $10 million 15 mail operation, those little machines, and I'm 16 ashamed that Senator Wright or Senator Spano, 17 Senator Kuhl, those of us who were out there 18 watching those machines grind out those news 19 letters and all that mail, all that printing, 20 they aren't here. They can't appreciate what we 21 saw. I hope you got a full account of it. 22 But it seems to me that what we 23 ought to be doing is talking about real election 7120 1 reform in which we try to balance the playing 2 field. Give everyone a chance, give everyone 3 the opportunity. Submit to some reasonable 4 restrictions such as those that are contained in 5 this amendment and we will level the playing 6 field, maybe not perfectly, but we'll begin to 7 balance it off, and it seems to me that's what 8 this amendment is designed to do. 9 This would be the real first step 10 on the road to creating competitive elections in 11 this state, and giving the people of this state 12 a real opportunity when they go to the polls to 13 make a judgment based on what they see in the 14 campaign and not what they've already paid for 15 through their tax dollars through publicly 16 supported mail. 17 I think it's a wise amendment, 18 and I hope my colleagues will accept it. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Last -- on the 20 amendment of Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote. 22 THE PRESIDENT: All those in 23 favor say aye. 7121 1 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 2 affirmative. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 4 the negative. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Party vote in the 6 affirmative for the amendment and party vote 7 opposed to the amendment. The amendment is not 8 agreed -- or, oh, the Secretary will call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23, nays 35, 12 party vote. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The amendment is 14 not agreed to. 15 Senator Connor. 16 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I call up my amendment, first 19 amendment Number 1, previously filed, served and 20 filed at the desk, waive its reading and 21 explain. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Connor is 23 recognized. 7122 1 SENATOR CONNOR: In essence - 2 and let me comment on the main bill first just 3 very briefly. The main bill is a hodge-podge of 4 technical corrections, minor changes and slight 5 improvements over the present Election Law. 6 I don't think it even rises to 7 the misnomer of the bill we had last year under 8 Senator Bruno's sponsorship, the so-called 9 Election Reform Act of 1992. This bill, I don't 10 even think with a straight face, could be called 11 the Election Reform Act of 1993, and I'll 12 comment on its specific provisions when we're on 13 the main bill, assuming that my amendments are 14 unsuccessful. I don't know why I have that 15 instinct, but I suspect after all these years I 16 can usually smell when an amendment is a winner 17 or a loser. 18 But my amendment would substitute 19 for the language of this bill, a bill previously 20 passed by the Assembly which, of course, would 21 add the virtue then of presenting us with an 22 opportunity to engage in lawmaking rather than 23 one-house one-upsmanship. 7123 1 The bill is denominated in the 2 other house as Assembly 1 or A. 1, which does 3 contain a number of important Election Law 4 reforms, principal of which is a public - 5 voluntary public campaign financing law which 6 we've debated before on this floor. We've seen 7 motions to discharge, and we've had debates on 8 it. 9 In summary, it would provide for 10 matchable public funding for the offices of 11 Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General 12 and Comptroller and also for the Senate and the 13 Assembly. There would be -- there's a 14 definition of matchable contributions which, in 15 essence, says those that are matchable come from 16 persons who reside -- natural persons who reside 17 in New York, they're matched one for one up to a 18 maximum of $500. 19 There, of course, is a bonus 20 mechanism should someone opt not to be in, in 21 order to once again try and level the playing 22 field. Should, for example, a wealthy 23 individual opt -- not opt in and decide to spend 7124 1 obscene amounts of his or her own money to run 2 for office. 3 The funding also is provided for 4 a primary, as well as a general election. There 5 are appropriate limits on contributions. For 6 example, in a statewide office an individual 7 contribution would be limited to $4,000 and for 8 the Senate and Assembly $1500, not insubstantial 9 fund amounts, but certainly not amounts large 10 enough to raise the appearance that undue 11 influence is being purchased by a contributor, 12 an appearance that often arises under the 13 present law, I think unfairly, but it's an 14 appearance, and it's there and the public 15 believes it and perceives it and it does do a 16 lot to undermine the public's confidence in the 17 work we, in elected office, do and we ought to 18 do what we can to dissipate that mistaken 19 appearance that is often given. 20 The overall spending limits, I 21 think, for those who participate, are certainly 22 substantial enough to allow the candidates to 23 get their message to the voters in the modern 7125 1 electronic campaign era. For example, in the 2 general election, a gubernatorial candidate 3 could spend $7 million. A state Senate 4 candidate could spend $150,000, an Assembly 5 member $75,000, certainly enough money to do 6 enough mail or media to get out the message. 7 Provision is also made for a tax 8 check-off so the public can voluntarily 9 participate. There are, of course, penalties 10 naturally for -- in this bill, there are also 11 penalties for failures of people, candidates and 12 committees to apply -- to comply with the law or 13 those who make misstatements. 14 Other changes in this amendment 15 with respect to campaign finance law do not 16 relate to public financing per se, but change 17 the present law in ways that I think ameliorate 18 some of the faults or loopholes that have been 19 exposed in recent years. For example, it 20 requires things like express mail for financial 21 reports mailed within two weeks of an election. 22 Now, Senator Nozzolio's bill, the 23 main bill here, appears to do that but it leaves 7126 1 out the 11-day pre-election report, so while 2 Senator Nozzolio's bill would require the 3 24-hour notice of receipt of a contribution 4 greater than a thousand dollars after the cut 5 off date of the 11-day pre-election report, he 6 would require -- his bill would require it be 7 mailed by express mail. The -- his bill does 8 not address that 11-day pre-election report. 9 Now, we all have experienced, I'm 10 sure, the frustration of having opponents mail 11 in some remote mail depository, at the final 12 moment on the 11th day before the election, by 13 ordinary mail their filing which may take, given 14 the vicissitudes of the U. S. Postal Service, 15 four or five days to arrive at the state Board 16 of Elections in Albany. 17 By then, you're in the final week 18 end of a campaign and certainly don't have time 19 to take a look at the report to see if therein 20 lies anything that might be politically 21 exploited, and even if you did find something 22 there's certainly no time to publicize it, no 23 time to give, in all fairness, your opponent a 7127 1 chance to reply to some appearance in there that 2 may cause political questions. 3 Other -- and I won't go through 4 every provision. But one of the things, for 5 example, this bill, this amendment would do is 6 -- is add a tie breaker to the Board of 7 Elections. We now have two Democrats and two 8 Republicans. This would add a fifth 9 commissioner, a person who doesn't belong to 10 either -- who belongs to neither party, who is 11 independent and, in effect, would be the tie 12 breaker. 13 Why? Well, there are times when 14 the two parties disagree. For example, should 15 they disagree on partisan lines over the 16 validity of a petition or should they, as often 17 happens in carrying out of the their investigat 18 ive responsibilities, they divide along partisan 19 lines and, therefore, an investigation is -- is 20 thwarted, a matter doesn't get referred to the 21 proper authorities or whatever. Not because 22 that's the way the commissioners voted, but 23 because there's a tie. 7128 1 Even in this body, we have our 2 own tie breaker who stands above us all in the 3 event there ever would be a tie although with 61 4 Senators it's difficult to see how that could 5 transpire. As we know, the U. S. Senate has a 6 tie breaker. Why not the Board of Elections, a 7 person of such independence and credibility that 8 he or she could be the tie breaker. 9 The bill -- the amendment would 10 also provide for registration and enrollment of 11 voters up until 15 days before an election, in 12 this age of computer processing enough, a 13 sufficient time for the board of elections to 14 process a new voter and get them onto the 15 computer generated rolls which we more and more 16 in every county of this state are now turning to 17 for election day. 18 The bill also with respect to 19 ballot access, my amendment does not go as far 20 as I would go, and we've had this debate 21 before. My proposal to eliminate virtually 22 every technicality connected with the gathering 23 of signatures, all but the verification that the 7129 1 signature is actually that of a registered 2 eligible voter, get away with -- do away with 3 witness statements, numbering, cover sheets, 4 E.D.s, A.D.s, all the nonsense we've imposed 5 over it. Maybe it wasn't nonsense 40 years ago, 6 but in the age of computers, the name and 7 address of a voter is sufficient identification 8 to find out if they're registered, and that 9 should be the only criteria. 10 Regrettably, this amendment 11 doesn't go as far as my proposals would, but it 12 is an improvement. Why do I embrace it now in 13 this amendment? Because it is from A. 1; it 14 last passed the Assembly. This week is no time 15 to engage in offering legislation or amendments 16 that would be merely one house. Adopt my 17 amendment, it's already been enacted by the 18 Assembly and we have legislation that can be 19 presented to the Governor for his signature. 20 What this does do though, with 21 respect to ballot access, is first of all 22 embrace the principle that I think is long 23 overdue do. It would provide that in 7130 1 construction of all the valid access provisions, 2 the petition provisions of the Election Law, 3 that the court be directed to liberally construe 4 all those provisions; to, in effect, look at 5 them from the standard of whether they, in fact, 6 in a reasonable way, comply with the 7 requirements of law and, if they do, the court 8 would be, of course, expected to overlook 9 technical deviations, mistakes, clerical errors, 10 and so on. 11 This is the kind of standard that 12 applies in most areas of the law, and it's very 13 difficult to explain to those not familiar with 14 the arcane provisions of New York election law 15 just how bad it can be. In the course of some 16 work I was doing last year, I had occasion to 17 talk to a very prominent Texas lawyer in Dallas 18 and explain how it wasn't good enough for his 19 client, perhaps one of the best known men in 20 America, had signed a piece of paper in the 21 presence of his secretary who was a notary in 22 the state of Texas who signed her name to it, 23 who but failed to affix her seal with her number 7131 1 on it, and when I explained to this partner in a 2 large Dallas law firm that that wasn't good 3 enough, it would have to be all redone because 4 the absence of a statement as to the authority 5 of the notary to act would, in fact, invalidate 6 the entire candidacy of a gentleman running for 7 one of the highest offices in the land, and this 8 lawyer in very lawyer-like language said to me, 9 "Mr. Connor, that's about as picky as it gets," 10 and I said, "You've got it. Welcome to New 11 York. We're just about as picky as it gets," 12 and we shouldn't be because we're playing with 13 people's right to vote. We're playing with the 14 right of people, whether you agree with them or 15 not, to run for office, to make their case in a 16 democratic, small "d" way, and we shouldn't be 17 as picky as it gets, and, therefore, embracing 18 the liberal construction provisions of this 19 amendment would go a long way. 20 And let me say, I don't -- I lay 21 upon the Legislature the responsibility at this 22 date, the responsibility for not dealing with 23 the problems, for not changing it, for not 7132 1 making it more liberally construed. It's not 2 necessarily the Legislature's fault, for all the 3 strict construction. As I've said before, the 4 courts of this state have, for the last 40 5 years, embraced the doctrine of strict uniform 6 and mandatory construction of every provision in 7 the Election Law without regard for whether it's 8 form, substance or of any other significance, 9 and it is judge-made law, and it's a judge-made 10 standard, but that's the Court of Appeals has 11 said that's the standard they're using until we 12 give them a different one. 13 This amendment would give them a 14 different standard, a standard that every 15 reasonable person in this state agrees ought to 16 apply, a standard that is applied across the 17 board in other areas of the law, a standard that 18 is applied across the country. 19 So I can't blame this institution 20 of the Legislature for adopting this approach, 21 because we've all seen -- we've all experienced, 22 indeed former members of this house have been 23 removed from the ballot while they were 7133 1 incumbents for very unanticipated reasons 2 because of provisions set forth in the Election 3 Law that no one ever dreamed would be applied in 4 such a strict manner; yet the court said this is 5 how you do it. 6 So the -- with respect to ballot 7 access, the most important provision that my 8 amendment would do is to adopt this standard of 9 liberal construction, one that has already been 10 passed by the Assembly, one that I think would 11 meet with great approbation throughout the state 12 from editorial boards, from good government 13 groups, and one which would put New York into 14 the 20th Century with respect to ballot access 15 laws. 16 It would also eliminate the 17 requirement of a hundred signatures from each 18 Congressional District for a statewide candidate 19 and merely go with the total number being 20 sufficient to qualify the candidate. It would 21 amend the Election Law to provide something that 22 the -- let me say, Senator Bruno's so-called 23 Election Reform Act of 1992, if you will recall, 7134 1 provided that the boards of elections, the state 2 Board of Elections and the county boards of 3 election should provide forms for petitions for 4 primary elections and forms for general 5 elections and should also provide sample cover 6 sheets to candidates. 7 This is something good government 8 groups wanted. We adopted it. At the time of 9 imposing that so-called reform legislation, one 10 of the objections I raised, it remains to this 11 day, is the fact that that law tells the boards 12 of elections, give out these forms. It does not 13 tell the candidates or -- that they may rely on 14 that, and the courts of this state, specifically 15 the court of Appeals in a case called Galletta 16 against Mahoney, a Buffalo -- case originating 17 in Buffalo some seven or eight years ago, 18 specifically said that when the form is provided 19 by the board of elections the candidate has no 20 right to rely on it, and in that case where the 21 candidate relied on the form given out by the 22 board of elections, the form was erroneous in 23 that it admitted -- omitted calling for some 7135 1 required simple information. In relying on 2 that, the candidate did so to her own detriment 3 and she was removed from the ballot. 4 We've now passed a law that's on 5 the books saying they have to give these forms 6 out. They give them out. I have seen sample 7 petition forms being given out that omitted 8 required information, that were erroneous as the 9 cover sheets. I've seen that in the city of New 10 York. Given my interest in the area, I've seen 11 it early, early enough to tell the board, This 12 is wrong, and have them change the sample they 13 were giving -- given out. 14 But should that fall in the hands 15 of an unwary candidate and should they rely on 16 it, they could be removed from the ballot. 17 That's a ridiculous thing. We've gone from 18 worse -- from bad to worse. It used to be the 19 board didn't give out the forms and candidates 20 were left to their own devices and if they were 21 wrong they were off the ballot. 22 Now, we have what I call the set 23 up law of 1992. You can be set up if you're a 7136 1 candidate, set up by the Legislature and the 2 board of elections. Go in; well, what do I have 3 to do? Here, follow this form. Fine. Follow 4 the form, have someone take you to court after 5 the fact and say, The form's in error. Oh, but 6 I relied on the board of elections. Well, you 7 can't do that. Our Court of Appeals has said 8 you have no right to rely on the board of 9 elections. 10 So one of the things my amendment 11 would do is say you have a right to rely on the 12 information they give you. If you follow the 13 form they give you, you can be on the ballot. 14 This, then, in sum, is what my amendment would 15 do: It would adopt the provisions of Assembly 16 Number 1 which have been adopted, which contain 17 important reforms. 18 Let me say, Mr. President, in 19 closing, because I have a second amendment which 20 I will discuss in the briefest terms, but what 21 I've observed this year between the two houses, 22 for a long time, there was a long-standing 23 practice that the houses of this Legislature 7137 1 would cooperate in making necessary technical 2 amendments to the Election Law because from time 3 to time quite apart from policy differences, 4 technical problems arise. 5 For example, last year we amended 6 the C.P.L.R. in a way that quite unintentionally 7 gravely affected the way the Election Law will 8 operate in this state. Not intended. I have a 9 bill that would correct this, correct it in a 10 most technical way. I've been told in this 11 house they'll pass it, and I find out, well, 12 it's hostage to some policy thing the Assembly 13 wants to do. There are other technical things 14 that I believe are being held hostage by this 15 house because of policy differences, and I would 16 suggest in these closing days of the legislative 17 session, that the responsible people in both 18 houses, and I've conveyed this to the Assembly, 19 sit down and sort out, sort out these technical 20 provisions from the policy differences and at 21 least adopt them, so then the policy can be 22 weighed against policy and a lot of technical 23 administrative problems in the Election Law 7138 1 won't be held hostage to the policy differences 2 that are embodied in the differences between my 3 amendment and the main bill. 4 Mr. President, I urge adoption of 5 the amendment. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: On the 7 amendment, all those in favor signify - 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 11 Leichter on the amendment. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 13 President. I think that in this house we're 14 extremely fortunate that we have one of the 15 leading experts not only in this state but in 16 the nation on the Election Law in Senator 17 Connors, and I think that he made most eminent 18 good sense in the proposals that he put before 19 us in this amendment. 20 It's hard for me to understand 21 that we would not do it except for what has been 22 the attitude of the Majority here that you make 23 elections as difficult, try to make them as 7139 1 confusing, try to make it as confrontational 2 between candidates on technical requirements. 3 It's -- it's a real pity. It's a disgrace. 4 But the biggest disgrace is that 5 we failed to address the issue of big money in 6 elections, and that this Majority takes the 7 hypocritical position that we don't want to use 8 public monies for campaigns and yet you're 9 dipping into the legislative appropriation to 10 send out mailings for your candidates, and we've 11 documented it this year. You've tried to keep 12 it secret which, in itself, is disgraceful 13 because you're telling the public that they 14 don't have a right to know how their money is 15 being spent. 16 But we found out more and more 17 and more information about the tons of mail that 18 you send out before primary dates for some of 19 your candidates, that you send out before the 20 general election. 21 So don't tell us that you don't 22 believe in the public financing of campaigns. 23 You don't believe in the public financing of 7140 1 campaigns other than for incumbent Republican 2 Senators, and I assure you we're going to 3 continue on this issue, we're going to disclose 4 it, you're going to be shown for what you are, 5 which is, when it comes to this particular area, 6 you're out and outright hypocrites. 7 But it's -- it's really 8 unfortunate not only in respect to how you 9 misuse the public money and seek to hide that, 10 but it's unfortunate that you're willing to 11 address what is really a cancer in the body 12 politick in New York State and throughout the 13 nation, and that is the effect of big money. 14 It's something that we need to address if we're 15 going to preserve our democracy. 16 If you're going to keep special 17 interest groups from having undue influence, if 18 you're going to make it possible for other than 19 very well connected, very rich people to run for 20 public office. We must address this. We need 21 to address it in New York State. We need to do 22 it nationally. At least some progress is being 23 made in the Congress. They are facing up to the 7141 1 issue, but here absolutely not. There's a 2 Berlin wall up when it comes to any changes that 3 would make our elections easier, fairer, greater 4 access to the ballot, and would also preclude 5 the expenditures of enormous sums of money. 6 That's why Senator Connor's 7 amendment is so terribly important and this 8 issue is going to come back and back and back 9 and we're going to make sure that the public 10 knows who practices for themselves, financing of 11 their campaigns with public monies, refuses to 12 disclose it, and that issue will stay until you 13 come clean, until you face up to those matters 14 and those provisions that are raised in Senator 15 Connor's amendment. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I rise to address the specific 21 issue of campaign financing and public financing 22 of campaigns. I was a young voter at the time 23 the presidential campaign -- public financing of 7142 1 presidential campaigns went into effect and I 2 can remember, I guess it was, it was probably 3 largely Republican members of the Senate and the 4 Congress who said this is going to change the 5 whole political dynamics. It's going to change 6 the entire politics, the democracy as we know it 7 is going to cease to exist because we now have a 8 Socialist system of financing presidential 9 campaigns. 10 Well, Mr. President, my 11 recollection is that, since that went into 12 effect, Republicans have won the presidency 13 three or four times and Democrats have won it 14 once or twice. So obviously the danger of 15 campaign financing, controls on campaign 16 financing, and public financing of campaigns and 17 caps on the amount that could be spent in 18 campaigns has not worked to the disadvantage of 19 the Republican Party even though, quite frankly, 20 in this nation, and I'll bow to my colleagues if 21 they've got better information, but my 22 recollection is, you're still a minority party. 23 There's still more Democrats registered than 7143 1 Republicans in this nation. So you can hardly 2 suggest that campaign financing and public 3 financing of campaigns has in any way damaged 4 the ability of Republicans to get elected at 5 least to the nation's chief office. 6 But more important than that, and 7 I think the message has to be heard from Senator 8 Leichter's point of view, about what this means 9 to this body. Senator Connor, in explaining 10 this amendment, said he regretted the mistaken 11 assumption that somehow giving large amounts of 12 money would be perceived by the public as buying 13 votes. 14 I'd submit to you, my colleagues 15 on the other side of the aisle, that that's 16 their perception. That's their perception on 17 rent control, when three of the major real 18 estate PACs give $355,000 to the Republican 19 Senators, and suddenly six months after the 20 election is over, we talk about luxury rent 21 decontrol. 22 The perception on the part of the 23 public, quite candidly, not without significant 7144 1 foundation, is that that money was used to buy 2 votes, if not buy results. The public would not 3 be unjustified in making -- drawing that 4 conclusion. 5 It seems to me the solution to 6 that is present in this amendment, that if you 7 had public financing of campaigns, if you had 8 everyone, challengers and incumbents alike, have 9 access to public campaign dollars, if you had 10 spending limitations, you would get rid of the 11 notion that big money is all that matters in 12 politics, that big money can buy votes, big 13 money can buy results, big money can buy 14 government. 15 That is the greatest danger to 16 our political system is that we simply become a 17 wealth-based democracy. We can not allow that 18 to happen. 19 I'm reminded of the old two 20 dollar bill story, when I first came into 21 politics in the early 1960s with my grandmother 22 who was a Republican elected official who told 23 me the story about what two dollar bills were 7145 1 and why they disappeared. You don't see them 2 any more because they used to give them out in 3 downtown Rochester when you went in to vote. 4 You got a two dollar bill, and that's all it 5 cost for your vote. 6 Well, I suggest to you, 7 gentlemen, that the same thing is now true here 8 and certainly the public perception is strong 9 that you can buy votes in this chamber, that you 10 can buy political power by giving massive 11 campaign contributions. That notion is deadly 12 to our system of democracy and deadly to the 13 public's confidence in this government and in 14 this house. 15 I suggest to you that the kind of 16 things embodied in this amendment on campaign 17 financing have to be enacted in order to 18 preserve the public's confidence in what we do 19 and to create the one thing that I think we all 20 acknowledge a democracy depends on, fair and 21 truly competitive elections in which incumbents 22 and challengers both -- both have access to 23 public financing and opportunity to have their 7146 1 message heard. 2 Without that, this system becomes 3 a fraud in and of itself. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Any 5 further debate on the amendment? 6 All those in favor of the 7 amendment, signify by saying aye. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 9 affirmative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: All those 11 opposed nay. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 13 the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 15 roll on a party vote. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22, nays 37, 18 party vote with two exceptions. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The 20 amendment is defeated. 21 Senator Connor. 22 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, 23 most briefly, I call up my second amendment. 7147 1 That is -- this second amendment is essentially 2 A.1, the bill we just discussed in amendment 3 form without public campaign financing. 4 It embraces all the myriad 5 reforms contained in the Assembly version but 6 does not provide for the expenditure of public 7 money to support campaign activities. 8 Apparently some members have obviously -- some 9 members have objections and differences about 10 that and I wanted to give those members an 11 opportunity to make clear their position on all 12 of the other campaign and Election Law reforms. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: On the 14 amendment before the house, all those in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Party vote 17 in the affirmative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 19 roll on a party vote. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 21 the negative. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 2, nays 35, 7148 1 party vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The 3 amendment is defeated. 4 Are there any other amendments? 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. On - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 7 last section. On the bill? 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 30 - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Withdraw 10 it. Senator Dollinger on the bill. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, on the bill. 13 I think my views on the issues 14 raised by Senator Connor's amendment have been 15 articulated in this chamber. I guess, when all 16 is said and done, if this is what we're going to 17 pass, I agree with the sponsor this is a step 18 but I'm reminded of that old game I used to play 19 as a kid, Mother, May I. Somebody get real 20 close to the goal, and you'd say, Sure, you can 21 take little teeny weeny itsy bitsy tiny winy 22 wine steps, can't take a giant step, can't take 23 a normal step, but we'll let you have one of 7149 1 those little tiny, tiny, tiny steps. 2 This is a little tiny, tiny, tiny 3 step in the right direction. My hope is that 4 next year, as we approach the election in 1994, 5 the kind of giant step that is embodied in 6 Senator Connor's amendment that has already 7 passed one house, that we know has support in 8 the other chamber, that that giant step forward 9 for the Election Law, where we'll look at the 10 issues of ballot access and access to petitions 11 and campaign finance and spending limitations, 12 all of those giant steps that are being talked 13 about in places like Washington, D.C. and other 14 state capitols, that we'll actually have the 15 courage to say, "Mother, may I take a giant 16 step?" 17 The ayes -- from this chair, the 18 answer is clearly yes, and I hope the chairman 19 of the Election Committee will take that giant 20 step next year. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 22 Jones. 23 SENATOR JONES: Yes. While I 7150 1 agree with my colleagues that a lot more is 2 needed, and I'm certainly going to support 3 Senator Nozzolio's bill, but I couldn't let his 4 definition of public school education as dismal 5 in the effort that we're putting into elections 6 and even in first grade in school, we do show 7 the ballot, we do talk to kids about elections, 8 so I just couldn't let your definition of 9 "dismal" stand. But otherwise I support you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 11 Connor. 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I'm going to vote for this bill 15 not because it's great. It's just because it's 16 like pablum, I mean it doesn't taste good but it 17 doesn't make you sick. So there's no point in 18 making a big fuss about it. 19 Just let me note though, that a 20 number of provisions in this bill have already 21 been adopted by the Assembly in the form of 22 separate bills and I really, going back to what 23 I said at the beginning, would urge the chairman 7151 1 of the committee and his staff, the Majority 2 Leader's staff and the staff -- the 3 corresponding people in the Assembly, to sit 4 down and adopt them as separate legislation. 5 It seems to me we're now engaged 6 in a bit of a charade here by putting all of 7 these individual technical provisions in one 8 bill and maybe it's so you can call it omnibus. 9 They're not going to correspond to the measures 10 adopted by the Assembly. There are slight 11 differences. They're not identical bills and 12 we're going to leave here without even doing 13 some of these technical changes. 14 And I would also suggest that, 15 you know, the board of elections has prepared, 16 pursuant to legislation that we did in 1992, new 17 vote, new statewide voter registration forms and 18 new statewide absentee ballot applications and 19 they proposed a bill, a plain language bill in 20 effect, on the voter affirmation section. It's 21 embodied in a separate bill. It's embodied in a 22 bill sponsored by Senator Nozzolio and 23 Assemblyman Vitaliano and, in this bill, the 7152 1 language is added on rather than substituted for 2 the present convoluted technical language. 3 I don't understand that. This is 4 a very important piece of legislation only 5 because the board is ready to roll the printing 6 presses on new plain language, easily 7 understandable statewide uniform forms that we 8 directed them to do, and I've talked to 9 officials at the state board in the last few 10 days, last night, and so on, and they say, 11 What's going on here? We were told to do these 12 forms. We've proposed them. Everybody said the 13 forms are fine. Senator Nozzolio is sponsoring 14 a bill, Assemblyman Vitaliano is sponsoring a 15 bill adopting the language, and now it's all 16 going to be lost because this omnibus bill is 17 coming out that has a different form in it, 18 Senator. It's not the same form. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 20 Nozzolio, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Will the 22 gentleman yield? 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly. 7153 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 2 yields. Senator Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Mr. Connor, I just wanted to 6 touch base on a point you were skimming across. 7 Before you continued to skim, I thought we 8 should cross, and maybe you were not aware of, 9 Senator, the fact that we have signed off on 10 those plain language measures that the Assembly, 11 members of your party and particularly the black 12 and Puerto Rican Caucus have raised concern or 13 objection, objection of which I know not what 14 the specifics are. 15 Now, maybe you could do us a 16 service today by talking to your members, your 17 colleagues there, and find out exactly what 18 their objections are because that, in fact, is 19 what I understand the hold-up to be. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: O.K. Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Connor on the bill. 7154 1 SENATOR CONNOR: And thank you, 2 Senator Nozzolio, and I'll be happy to make 3 those inquiries because I sense -- I think what 4 the Senator is saying is that they're prepared 5 to move this separate bill that embraces those 6 changes. 7 Some of the other things in here 8 are just innocuous. Name stamps, it's already 9 case law. Again, not to belabor it. There are 10 things in here that I think the houses can agree 11 on, not in the present form, not in the 12 so-called omnibus bill. 13 In the meantime, as I said, 14 there's nothing to brag about, nothing to get 15 upset about. I'm voting yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: There 17 being no further debate on the bill, read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 30. This 20 act shall take effect on the 30th day after it 21 shall have become a law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 23 roll. 7155 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 5 Nozzolio. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 7 I ask unanimous consent to refrain from voting 8 and ask to explain my vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Explain 10 your vote. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: My colleagues, 12 there has been many words used today to describe 13 all issues relating to election law but not the 14 issues that we are addressing in this bill. If 15 you favor increased accountability, if you favor 16 leveling the playing field for insurgent or 17 write-in candidates, if you favor public 18 disclosure, increased public disclosure for 19 political candidates, if you favor increased 20 ballot access for write-in candidates, if you 21 favor increasing the civil penalties for 22 candidates who fail to file the disclosure 23 forms, if you believe that these are important 7156 1 issues, then the right thing to do is vote for 2 the bill. 3 This bill is more than a small 4 step. It's an important step in the effort to 5 reform our Election Law. 6 Mr. President, I vote in favor of 7 the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Secretary will -- Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Yes, 17 there is. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 19 1522? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 21 is on Supplemental -- the Supplemental 1 22 calendar, Senator Present. Do you wish to take 23 up that bill? It's on the Supplemental 1 7157 1 calendar. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Right. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: And we do 4 have a message. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar Number 6 1522, on the supplemental calendar, by Senator 7 Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 5885-B, Retirement 8 and Social Security Law. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 I move we accept the message. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: So 12 ordered. Message is accepted. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Present. 7158 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1498. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary 3 will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1498. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 1498 on 7 the regular calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 40, by 9 Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 5608-A, an act 10 to amend the Public Health Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explanation. 19 Sorry. Thank you. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Gold, why do you rise? 7159 1 SENATOR GOLD: Explain my vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 3 Gold to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 5 President. In explaining my vote, I'd like to 6 point out that this is a different bill. No, 7 the last bill we passed just went so fast, and 8 I -- I want to congratulate Senator Trunzo. 9 The fact of the matter is 10 somebody made the comment in Rules that this is 11 a legislative mandate relief act. Thanks to the 12 work of Senator Trunzo, we hopefully will not be 13 flooded with all of these absurd pension bills. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 15 SENATOR GOLD: And it's about 16 time. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 18 Tully, why. 19 SENATOR GOLD: And from that work 20 on that bill, I'm going to vote on this bill. 21 What do you want? 22 SENATOR TULLY: That's fine. 23 SENATOR GOLD: What do you want? 7160 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 2 last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 10 is passed. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 now take up Calendar 1262. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Calendar 14 1262. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1262, by Senator Johnson. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: On page 18 27. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 20 Number 5900, Environmental Conservation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 22 last section. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No, not so 7161 1 fast. Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 3 Explanation requested. Senator Johnson, page 4 27, Calendar Number 1262. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: I have an 6 amendment, I think it's been handed up and 7 served on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: There's 9 an amendment at the desk. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Thank you, 11 Mr. President. Just give me a second to pull 12 out my papers. 13 Mr. President, the amendment on 14 the bill is actually - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: We're on 16 an amendment to the bill. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- actually 18 deals with the piece of legislation that was 19 introduced by Assemblyman Silver and Senator 20 Mega dealing with air emission offsets for 21 incinerators in New York City. 22 The Clean Air Act which we know, 23 the federal Clean Air Act, which was originally 7162 1 designed to improve air quality in this state 2 and in the country and particularly in urban 3 areas, prohibited any new pollution sources from 4 opening up and further worsening air quality 5 within the particular designated geographic 6 areas unless there are offsets, and air 7 pollution and emissions had to be - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 9 Solomon, excuse me. Can we have some order in 10 the house. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- had to be 12 reduced. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 14 Solomon. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- had to be 16 reduced. Thank you, Mr. -- Senator Mega. 17 And other air emissions had to be 18 reduced. As a matter of fact, the New York City 19 metropolitan area has been designated as a 20 severe non-attainment area for ozone standards. 21 Only two other areas in the country, Denver and 22 Los Angeles, come into that specific 23 designation. 7163 1 Now, specifically what this would 2 do is, there are two incinerators, one in the 3 Brooklyn Navy Yard and one called the Southwest 4 incinerator. What was interesting was that the 5 Southwest incinerator just happened to have had 6 its application completed several days before 7 the effective date of the federal Clean Air 8 offset requirements, did not receive its permit; 9 it only had its application completed and, in 10 fact, that wasn't even completed because there 11 were subsequent amendments to applications. 12 This would, in effect, amend the 13 bill we have before us with a great piece of 14 legislation developed by Senator Mega in this 15 house, and all it does is take Senator Mega's 16 legislation and attach it to this bill, which 17 would, in fact, require the city of New York to 18 meet the standards as they really should be 19 meeting under the federal Clean Air Act so they 20 can not pull the wool over everyone's eyes and 21 say, Well, we filed the application with the 22 state of New York a week and a half before the 23 federal Clean Air Act. 7164 1 This is a very important bill to 2 anyone who represents the city of New York 3 because, in fact, what's going to happen is in 4 the Southwest incinerator, we're going to 5 probably have an additional 700 tons annually of 6 pollution, whereas if we pass this bill, we'll 7 have to offset those -- offset approximately 325 8 tons of nitrogen oxide. 9 This also affects the Brooklyn 10 Navy Yard and I believe the Allis Head plant on 11 Staten Island, and I would just suggest everyone 12 vote yes on this amendment. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Any 14 further discussion on Senator Solomon's 15 amendment? 16 Senator Galiber. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator yield 18 for a question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 20 yields, Senator Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: When you say 22 "offset," from a practical standpoint, what 23 does that really mean? 7165 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: What happens 2 under the offset requirement, Senator, if the 3 city is going to open any new sources of air 4 pollution, they have to reduce air pollution in 5 other areas. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: How would they 7 go about doing that? 8 SENATOR SOLOMON: How would they 9 go about doing that? Well, that's some of the 10 problems that they've talked about. Whether 11 they've talked about reducing the number of cars 12 that come into Manhattan in the central business 13 district, whether they've talked about stricter 14 standards on some private businesses in the 15 area, that's the City's main problem, the main 16 sources of air pollution of this type that comes 17 into the -- the main sources is automobile 18 pollution, by the way. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, will 20 you yield for one other question? 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Almost in the 23 form of a statement really. "Offset" always 7166 1 means to me that, if you clear it up on this 2 side of the street, it has to go some place 3 else. So in the city of New York if we talk 4 about offsets in the Brooklyn Navy Yard, because 5 of whatever the criteria may be, would Mount 6 Vernon be affected by your offset from the city 7 of New York taking care of Brooklyn Navy Yard, 8 but impacting on another part, no, another 9 county in this instance? 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: No, it would 11 have to be within the city of New York, the City 12 would have to offset it. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. Let me go 14 to my other part of my district, I have fun 15 doing that. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: For example, if 18 your amendment passes and this offset that we 19 make reference to, is it conceivable that we do 20 not have an incinerator or we cut down on the 21 pollution in Brooklyn Navy Yard and you add to 22 the South Bronx where we have in the matter of 23 four or five miles an incinerator, a sludge 7167 1 printing press, Hunt Point Market and more 2 recently the burning of medical wastes within a 3 radius of four or five miles. 4 Would your offset open up the 5 possibility of another variable coming into that 6 community? 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: The -- I 8 believe the offsets specifically deal with the 9 emission, type of emission, from that plant. So 10 for that type of emission, there has to be an 11 offset. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: So there may be 14 a different emission from the medical waste in 15 cinerator than there is from the garbage 16 incinerator. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: My point being 18 that we've got it all in my district; we've got 19 every bit of it. We have got a little bit of 20 Hunt's Point which calls for the trucks coming 21 in, so we've got type of that emission you're 22 talking about still within the frame of the four 23 or five miles; so if you want to offset it in 7168 1 kind, if you will, the emissions from the smoke 2 trucks et cetera, that's conceivable that could 3 be added onto Bronx County in that particular 4 area where emissions in kind, like if you will. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if 6 these plants didn't open it wouldn't have to be 7 offset. The offsets only occur if these plants 8 open, and we're able to adopt this amendment. 9 That's what I'm saying. If these plants didn't 10 open, there would not have to be offsets. The 11 offsets only occur if the plants open, because 12 they're adding more pollution. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: On the 14 amendment. On the amendment, all those in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 All those opposed no. 18 (Response of "Nay.") 19 The noes have it. The amendment 20 is defeated. 21 On the main bill, Senator 22 Johnson, explanation requested. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 7169 1 this will -- this bill is designed to comply 2 with the federal law requiring clean air, amends 3 the Environmental Conservation Law, Economic 4 Development Law, Executive Law, Finance Law, 5 Transportation Law, all in regard to clean air 6 compliance, makes an appropriation for that 7 purpose. 8 The 1990 amendments placed many 9 requirements on us, and what we're doing by this 10 legislation is giving the necessary legislative 11 authority to implement the federal 12 requirements. 13 We are -- we put a few other 14 things in addition to the federal requirements, 15 for example, Section 17 would have the state be 16 a leader in development and use of electric 17 cars, would help make a pilot program for 18 reduced trips for employees by having the state 19 do this for every 50 employees instead of a 20 hundred, which is mandated by law for other 21 businesses. 22 It will provide the Department of 23 Environmental Conservation and the Motor Vehicle 7170 1 Department with flexibility to protect the 2 environment by reducing vehicle emissions with 3 new inspection stations, centralized 4 inspections, and so forth, as required by the 5 federal law. 6 It has some fees in it on 7 business and we tried to keep the fees to a 8 minimum so that it would not adversely affect 9 business, but as it is, the fees in the first 10 year would bring in about $5 million, over 10 11 million the second year, and by the third year 12 of implementation in 1995-96, $13.6 million 13 dollars annually. 14 I could talk more about this 15 bill, but essentially what we're trying to do is 16 what the law requires and so we can comply with 17 the law so we don't have any federal penalties 18 or federal usurpation of the regulations by 19 federal agencies, namely, the EPA. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 23 like first to make a couple of comments and then 7171 1 question the Senator on the bill. 2 The Clean Air Act Amendments of 3 1990, the federal Clean Air Act, it places many 4 new obligations on the state to -- to control 5 the urban smog that we are dealing with, and the 6 acid rain and the toxic pollution and all the 7 other pollutants that come from the smoke 8 stacks. 9 New York State legislation is - 10 is needed to avoid the rather severe mandatory 11 federal sanctions that will come if we do not 12 pass substantive legislation and it will mean 13 for us the loss of a good deal of money in 14 transportation aid from the fed's and it will 15 put a virtual ban on -- on our industrial growth 16 if we don't get into control and get emission 17 restrictions that meet the federal government's 18 requirements, and I don't have to tell any of 19 you, because you've heard it too often, that we 20 live in an area where the air is considered - 21 the quality is considered unacceptable, and it's 22 the whole metropolitan area that's considered 23 unacceptable, and it's a severe non-attainment 7172 1 area, right after Los Angeles, and -- yes, in 2 Colorado, Denver. There you go. 3 Before I speak specifically on 4 the bill, I would like to ask Senator Johnson a 5 couple of questions, if he would yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 7 Johnson, do you yield to a question or two? 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 11 Johnson yields. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator 13 Johnson, there was a concern in Westchester that 14 we were being grouped into the environmental 15 area with New York City and, therefore, the 16 federal attainment goals could not really be 17 reached as far as the limitation on vehicular 18 traffic. 19 Do you know if -- if Westchester 20 has been separated out from New York City and 21 put in with Rockland and other suburban 22 counties? 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: In regard to 7173 1 trip reduction, yes, Westchester will be able to 2 be handled differently. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We'll be 4 separated out from New York City. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Excellent, 7 that was a requirement. 8 Let me comment on the bill now. 9 Thank you, Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 11 Oppenheimer, on the bill. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We have 13 very serious concerns about the fee structure. 14 The fee structure looks like it is not 15 sufficient to avoid federal sanctions. The - 16 the Senate's fee structure is -- appears to be 17 inadequate to fund the programs that are 18 required to implement - 19 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 20 Senator yield for a question? 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 22 Senator. 23 SENATOR DALY: Do you know under 7174 1 this bill, as far as fees are concerned, 2 Senator, how much money will be raised say by 3 the year 1996 on an annual basis? 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It is 5 considered by the environmental groups of this 6 state - 7 SENATOR DALY: I said how much - 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- to not be 9 a fraction of how much is needed. 10 SENATOR DALY: But I asked you 11 how much money would be raised? 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Can you 13 tell me, Senator? 14 SENATOR DALY: Oh, I can tell 15 you, it's $20.4 million, $20.4 million in fees 16 through this bill by the year 1996. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And you're 18 probably familiar with the serious costs 19 involved in bringing our polluting stationary 20 sources and mobile sources under control. 21 SENATOR DALY: Yes, Senator, I 22 am, and I think if you studied the bill and 23 studied and worked with DEC and found out what 7175 1 they want to use this money for, I think you 2 would find that this fee schedule would meet the 3 needs of DEC in properly implementing the Clean 4 Air Act. 5 Now, let me say we want to 6 properly implement the Clean Air Act. We want 7 in law, in statute, a bill that will satisfy the 8 federal government, as we have to do by November 9 15th, and much of what Senator Johnson has done 10 in this bill parallels the Clean Air Act. 11 Now, the basic question, Senator, 12 we have to ask ourselves is how far, how far up 13 in -- in front of the federal government should 14 we move. If you'll note -- Senator, if you will 15 note in the bill, if you've read the bill and 16 compare it to the Clean Air Act, you obviously 17 will see that this bill does meet the 18 requirements of the federal Clean Air Act. 19 The question is how far should 20 New York State go? Should we move ahead of all 21 other states, again having a tremendously 22 horrible impact on the economy of the state or 23 should we play on a level playing field with 7176 1 other states? We believe Senator Johnson in 2 this bill has done an exceptionally good job of 3 trying to obtain -- attain a level playing field 4 status where New York State will honor the 5 federal Clean Air Act and yet not put itself in 6 a position where it goes so far ahead that we 7 are at a great disadvantage in other areas. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 11 Oppenheimer to continue. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 13 I would question Senator Daly - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 15 Oppenheimer, would you - 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- in his 17 assessment - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 19 Oppenheimer, please. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If Senator 21 Daly will - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: I'm 23 trying to get some order for you so we can 7177 1 listen to your debate. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you; I 3 pointed this right out. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Would we 5 please - 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: (speaking 7 loudly) can you hear me now? Senator Daly, if 8 you would yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: I guess 10 you want no help. Continue. 11 SENATOR DALY: I will yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 13 Daly yields. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I -- I have 15 figures that show that what appears to be the 16 Governor's, I think - 17 SENATOR DALY: May I break in? 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 19 Governor believes that -- the Governor's bill 20 apparently would require about 18 -- 28? .8 - 21 18.8 million -- $18.8 million per year to im 22 plement what he feels will be required by the 23 federal government to put us in compliance and 7178 1 to avoid federal sanctions. 2 The DEC believe $23 million per 3 year will be required to put us into compliance 4 with federal statutes. 5 What's this 4 million? 6 SENATOR DALY: May I? May I 7 answer you, Senator? 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 9 SENATOR DALY: The figures -- the 10 figures Senator Johnson has and let me speak to 11 '94-95 and '95-96. '93-94 are almost finished; 12 we're halfway through there, but in '94-95 we 13 have 10.4 million and 4.35 million from the 14 inspection fee which totals out to almost $15 15 million. In 1995-96, 13.6 million, 7.8 million 16 which, as I said before, comes out to 20.4 17 million, and we believe very sincerely, Senator, 18 that that is the amount of money that will do 19 the job for us. We don't see the need for 20 allowing the Department of Environmental 21 Conservation to fold in other jobs that have 22 nothing to do with the Clean Air Act. 23 We want to relegate these fees to 7179 1 the administration or the implementation and 2 administration of the Clean Air Act. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There is - 4 Senator, could I ask you to yield to one more 5 question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 7 Daly, do you yield? 8 SENATOR DALY: Yes, sir. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 10 Daly yields. 11 Senator Oppenheimer. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm 13 curious, Senator. You talk about other jobs 14 that the DEC wants to do with this funding 15 source. What -- what jobs are you talking 16 about? 17 SENATOR DALY: Well, you see, 18 basically, Senator, we believe that some of the 19 positions identified under these two categories 20 are Title V related, but we believe that they're 21 not needed to implement this particular piece of 22 legislation. We believe that DEC has included 23 in its, quote/unquote, jobs we need much more 7180 1 than are needed and we have actually -- I know 2 that Senator Johnson in negotiating team sat 3 down and went through the jobs and worked -- we 4 worked from those jobs that -- those jobs on the 5 list that DEC gave to the negotiating team. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: They don't 7 have to base it on anything. Let me -- let me 8 say that there is room for disagreement here, 9 but that the various groups that have been 10 following closely the environment in our state 11 for many, many years - 12 SENATOR DALY: Can I point out a 13 job to you, Senator? Excuse me. I don't mean 14 to interrupt you, but you wanted me to list some 15 jobs for you. Can I give you some of that right 16 now? 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: O.K. 18 SENATOR DALY: Let me give you an 19 example of what we mean. Let me point out that 20 the Environmental Chemist 3 position is not 21 related to Title V, and the position description 22 deals with the CEM program mandated by Title IV, 23 and is not required for implementation or not 7181 1 needed for the implementation of the Clean Air. 2 That's the type of thing we mean that he's 3 including in the list of jobs supposedly 4 required, jobs that are not. That's one 5 example. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: All right. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 8 Oppenheimer has the floor. Senator Johnson, why 9 do you rise? 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'd like to 11 know if I may help to respond to that question 12 that Senator Oppenheimer expounded on a few 13 moments ago. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 15 objection, Senator Johnson to respond. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'd just like 17 to clarify a few things because some of the 18 memos are very confusing. There's one put out 19 by the American Lung Association, the EPL and 20 other groups collectively, which said that we're 21 only charging $6 a ton and the EPA recommends 22 $22 a ton. 23 Senator, I'd just like you to 7182 1 know that the EPA recommends up to $25 a ton or 2 whatever amount is required to perform the job, 3 whatever amount the state feels they need up to 4 $25 a ton, but that doesn't start until 1995, 5 Senator. 6 What we're doing here is we're 7 phasing in, we're giving them money in advance. 8 We're giving them $6 a ton for '93, $12 a ton 9 for '94 so they can build up and get this thing 10 going, and up to $17 a ton in 1995. So, 11 Senator, we are probably being as generous or 12 more than the federal EPA recommends. 13 As far as the Governor's memo 14 saying he would like $40 a ton, I'm sure he 15 would because he could pass off more of the 16 costs of running the various departments on the 17 backs of the industries and the vehicle 18 operators of this state. But, Senator, I don't 19 know that it's a good idea to load on all you 20 can on this -- on this camel's back without 21 breaking its back. 22 So, Senator, our goal is to 23 charge what we feel is necessary to do the job 7183 1 and not more. That doesn't mean, Senator, we 2 can't go from 17 to $25 some time in the future, 3 but I don't think it's a good idea to send a 4 message to our business and our commuters in 5 this state, we're going to get all we can out of 6 you as fast as we can, and maybe you better make 7 plans to follow up on that inquiry from Kentucky 8 or North Carolina or Mexico and take your 9 business there before we get you for all that 10 big money. 11 So, Senator, we're trying to be 12 responsible and some of these memos are not 13 accurate, and I would like you to know that and 14 would like you to know that this has been well 15 thought out and, by the time this bill is up and 16 running, they're going to have about $30 million 17 just alone from these fees, let alone another 18 $10 million a year from auto inspections. So 19 they're going to have an awful lot of money, 20 Senator, under this bill; I think enough to do 21 the job. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Oppenheimer still has the floor. 7184 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If -- if 2 Senator Johnson would just yield for one 3 question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 5 Johnson, do you yield? 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator, 7 Mr. President. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator, 9 are you aware that the New York State Business 10 Council has stated, I believe this month, that 11 the $6 per ton that you have mentioned is in 12 sufficient and that $10 per ton is what would be 13 required to do the job this year? 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 15 don't know how the Business Council did their 16 calculations, and whether they're right or 17 wrong, or whether the Governor is right or wrong 18 with his call for $40 a ton. All I know is, 19 Senator, we have tried to structure this in a 20 way that the money will be sufficient to do the 21 job, and the Business Council is very supportive 22 of our bill, so I feel perhaps that any 23 appraisal you got of what the correct price 7185 1 should be is merely a shot in the dark, and the 2 present bill is perfectly acceptable to the 3 Business Council. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One more 5 question, Senator, if you will yield. You 6 mention the emissions inspection fees. Are you 7 -- how does that jibe with the fact that, in 8 this bill, these fees are supposed to go back 9 into the general fund, not for this purpose? 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, thank 11 you for bringing that subject up. It's 12 something we're well aware of and, as you may 13 know, this bill has been under active 14 negotiation for quite a period of time and we 15 know we're going to have to have an amendment to 16 this bill, perhaps to conform it to the Assembly 17 bill or they're going to get together and make a 18 completely new bill. But, Senator, everything 19 is on dead center with the Governor's office. 20 He doesn't seem to want to pursue any further 21 negotiations. 22 When we -- when we revise this 23 bill, Senator, we will make sure that that money 7186 1 goes into a dedicated fund, which is what we 2 want to do. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Excellent. 4 Could I ask the question that the ongoing 5 negotiations are moving ahead and we can expect 6 a two-house bill shortly? 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, you 8 know, I think we were further ahead last week 9 than we are this week on the negotiations, and 10 the Governor seems to be very reticent to come 11 to closure on this measure. 12 Senator, this is one of the most 13 important bills before this house this year, as 14 was the Environmental Trust bill. We passed 15 good bills. If they could be perfected by two 16 or three-way discussions, we'd like to have them 17 but, Senator, we can't leave here without doing 18 this bill, and the only way to make any progress 19 from this point on is to adopt this bill, and 20 let the Governor know this house is serious. 21 This has to be done before we leave here and 22 we're certainly looking forward to having a bill 23 that passes both houses and gets the signature 7187 1 of the Governor. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 3 Senator. 4 On the bill, I would just like to 5 mention a few other serious concerns that I 6 have. First of all, this bill prohibits New 7 York from adopting the California fuels. I 8 better ask Senator Johnson, does this bill 9 prohibit us from adopting the California fuel? 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, yes, 11 it's in the bill. It's in the bill, and it's in 12 the bill because we are trying not to interfere 13 with the California regulations promulgated by 14 the Commissioner which, upon the advice of his 15 advisory board, Environmental Advisory Board, 16 said they would not adopt California fuel, so we 17 are putting in statute his present regulation, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 20 Senator. 21 My concern is that there ought to 22 be some flexibility built in here and not -- not 23 a prohibition built in. We -- there is current 7188 1 litigation going on now, and I think we have to 2 wait to see what the outcome is based on the 3 court's interpretation, so I think we are pre 4 mature and certainly ought to adopt flexibility 5 as our goal rather than a prohibition. 6 I'm also concerned about the - 7 the fact that this bill omits warranty and 8 recall. Warranty and recall would require car 9 manufacturers to warranty air emission systems 10 and issue recalls if the standards aren't met. 11 Without this provision, the consumer, the 12 customer, is going to suffer rather than the - 13 the com... holding the companies accountable, it 14 is going to be the consumer that will have to 15 improve the defective emission system. That 16 seems rather unfair to the consumer. 17 At this present time, I think I 18 will complete what I had to say and let another 19 Senator speak on the subject. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 21 Daly. 22 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 23 going back to the discussion we had before, I 7189 1 would remind my colleagues that the fastest 2 growing part of the state budget over the last 3 six years has been the special revenue other and 4 the first incursion into is that, into the SRO, 5 special revenue other, by any department was DEC 6 back about six years ago when they tried to move 7 -- they tried to move 135 jobs that were 8 normally funded out of the general fund over to 9 SRO and we very frankly believe, Mr. President, 10 that the DEC's request for these additional 11 monies will -- will -- is a clear indication 12 that they will be using those monies for 13 positions other than those required to implement 14 the Clean Air Act. 15 Point two. The Senator mentioned 16 or questioned Senator Johnson on the fact that 17 this bill includes a prohibition on California 18 reformulated fuels. I would point out that the 19 Governor's bill does exactly the same thing, and 20 DEC agrees with the language we have on this 21 particular situation on this particular part of 22 the bill. 23 And three, I think the bottom 7190 1 line, Mr. President, on this bill, and the 2 difference between the executive branch and in 3 particular, the DEC, boils down to one question: 4 Should the Department of Environmental 5 Conservation be given the regulatory power to go 6 well beyond the requirement of the federal Clean 7 Air Act? That's the bottom line. Should the 8 DEC be given that kind of power? 9 And, very frankly, my colleagues, 10 we don't believe that the DEC should. All you 11 have to do is look at the history of DEC, 12 particularly under the present Commissioner, and 13 you will find constant battles and court cases 14 where DEC is trying to establish itself as the 15 body who will establish policy in this state on 16 environmental matters. 17 I'm sure my colleagues on both 18 sides of the aisle would take exception to a 19 department trying to take over or usurp the 20 powers in this house and our colleagues in the 21 Assembly. 22 So, Mr. President, I feel Senator 23 Johnson has done an exceptional job in putting 7191 1 together a bill that will meet the needs -- meet 2 the requirements of the federal Clean Air Act. 3 This bill will meet those requirements so that 4 on November 15th, if this bill becomes law, New 5 York State will be in compliance and yet we will 6 have not taken that step where we will have 7 given power to a department to go well beyond 8 the requirements established by Washington. 9 And, again, I remind you of how 10 easy it has been for New York State in the past 11 to take steps that, while certainly well 12 intended, come back and haunt us. And again, 13 I'm talking about balance, the balance about the 14 economy, about the economy, with the environment 15 and again, in no way reducing the urgency of the 16 passage of proper legislation which will help to 17 make our air cleaner. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 19 last section. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Oh, just a 21 second. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 23 Leichter. 7192 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 this is indeed an important issue. I'd like to 3 say it's an important bill. It does come on an 4 important day for Senator Johnson, and Senator 5 Farley and Senator Oppenheimer and myself, and I 6 think Senator Saland. We're all the July 3rd 7 committee. Some of us have anniversaries; some 8 of us have birthdays. So, Senator Johnson, I 9 congratulate you, on your birthday, not the 10 bill. 11 But, Senator, in all seriousness, 12 I think Senator Oppenheimer's tried to bring out 13 some of the concerns and problems we have. 14 First of all, let's -- let's remember, because I 15 think it's important, particularly from your 16 approach, Senator Daly, we're concerned here 17 with two important issues. 18 One is the health and welfare of 19 the people of the state of New York. Remember 20 that. We're dealing -- we're dealing with ozone 21 depletion. We're dealing with areas of the 22 state that have very high pollution that -- that 23 are non-, what is the technical term? 7193 1 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me just 3 finish, Senator. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 5 refuses to yield. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- that are 7 non-attainment areas. So to comply, first of 8 all we want to do it because it's the right 9 thing, we owe it to the people of this state. 10 Secondly, we've got to do it 11 because, if we don't act, if we don't comply 12 we're going to lose a billion dollars and more 13 of federal funds. We're in violation, and the 14 EPA is going to come down, and I've got a letter 15 here that they wrote on June 7th to Governor 16 Cuomo saying, What are you guys doing? Now, they 17 put it much more diplomatically, and it took 18 them two pages to do it, but they say, We're 19 warning you, that money is going to be cut off. 20 Now, what the response of the 21 Republican Majority in this bill is foot 22 dragging, trying to stonewall and total 23 illusion. I mean we've seen the fantasies that 7194 1 you people have with money all along. We saw it 2 with Senator Johnson's trust fund. We've seen 3 it with -- with other bills that you have. 4 Earlier today, a Senator Holland bill where he 5 was going to do something for local communities, 6 he said, Well, when we get the money, we'll do 7 it. 8 But we're dealing with something 9 that's very real and the problems that you have 10 with this bill are numerous. First of all, 11 there's no question the fee structure is 12 inadequate. Senator Daly, you say $20 million. 13 Nonsense. That figure as studied by the -- by 14 the OMB is that at best you're going to get $13 15 million with the fee structure. That's going to 16 be insufficient. We're going to be penalized by 17 EPA. 18 Senator Oppenheimer pointed out 19 you prohibit the use of California gas. We 20 should give that flexibility to DEC. You don't 21 have a warranty and recall. Your employee trip 22 reduction is inadequate. The operating permit 23 provisions, you impose limitations that make 7195 1 that ineffective. 2 I find one of the worse features 3 of the bill that you prohibit DEC from going 4 beyond federal clean air standards. Senator 5 Daly, I couldn't believe, you got up there and 6 you're beating your chest, Oh, that's wonderful, 7 we're really macho see how tough we are. See 8 what you're doing. 9 You're hurting the people of the 10 state of New York. You might need to go beyond 11 federal clean air standards because that's a 12 homogenized standard for the whole country. We 13 have pockets in our state that have a terrible 14 problem, as far as non-attainment. Rockland 15 County, Manhattan, Westchester, and so on. You 16 may need to go beyond this. 17 But listen, here we are on July 18 3rd. I don't know why we couldn't have done 19 this in May or June. What is -- what is this 20 about this brinksmanship that we've got to wait 21 until it's way beyond reasonable time to do it? 22 And Senator Johnson says, Well, we were further 23 along last week than we were this week. There's 7196 1 got to be some reason prevail in this chamber 2 and the other chamber and in the Governor's 3 office, not only because it's a matter of 4 getting out. I guess that's secondary to the 5 fact that we need to do this. 6 We need to do this, because the 7 penalties that are going to be imposed on New 8 York State are going to be extremely severe and 9 unacceptable. So let's get to work in a 10 reasonable and in a productive fashion and not 11 in this way and, again, Senator Johnson, 12 congratulations on your birthday. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 14 Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I just want 16 to reiterate something that Senator Leichter 17 said which is that the -- the standards that EPA 18 put out, the standards in the federal 19 legislation are minimal standards for the entire 20 United States, and many parts of our state -- of 21 our nation have relatively clean air and they 22 really don't have to put in the kind of effort 23 that we need to put in to start to meet these 7197 1 standards. 2 As we all know, we do have the 3 third worst air in the metropolitan area and 4 that's a serious health hazard to the people of 5 this state. 6 I also wanted to point out that 7 joining the environmental groups of EPA and 8 Sierra Club and the various environmental groups 9 of our state is also a group that I am very 10 close to, the League of Women Voters which has 11 taken a very strong stand and is anxious to move 12 ahead with a clean air bill that is a clean air 13 bill and not, as many of us believe, truly a 14 dirty air bill. 15 Thank you. I will be voting in 16 the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 18 last section. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 21 Johnson. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Like to correct 23 a couple of, again, misapprehensions which are 7198 1 flowing fast and furiously around this place. 2 Senator Leichter, I hope you know 3 there's been no foot-dragging on our part. 4 We've had our bill drafted for months; we filed 5 it several weeks ago but we were trying to get a 6 bill that all sides would agree upon. 7 Nevertheless we have a good bill 8 which will do what it has to do. I think I may 9 have misled you, maybe Senator Daly misled you, 10 by saying we're not going beyond federal 11 requirements. Yes, we're talking about we're 12 doing what the law requires so that we comply 13 with the law. We're trying to minimize the cost 14 to businesses, as I said, but this does not say 15 that if you've got an area that's impacted with 16 excessive pollution or other problems that you 17 can't go beyond it. But we're not giving the 18 department carte blanche to make their own rules 19 and regulations about what they will or will not 20 do anywhere, but on page 5, if you'd like to 21 look at that at the top of the page, it says 22 that you can exceed the requirements or 23 regulations, they can exceed this bill 7199 1 essentially, providing that they -- and set up 2 regulations which exceed the authority 3 specifically set forth in this bill to require 4 the -- if it's required to satisfy the act, to 5 prevent an assessment or imposition of sanctions 6 pursuant to the act, to comply with a final 7 decree of a federal court. 8 So there are some reasons by 9 which they can go beyond the regulations and the 10 laws contained in this bill. 11 As far as warranty and recall, 12 there's no need for that. We don't have any 13 California car standard in this state due to the 14 federal court action. We're all aware of that, 15 so there's no point to amplify the California 16 law which -- regulations which are not in place 17 at the present time. 18 California fuels, the entire 19 Northeast Air Transport Region said they're not 20 going to do California fuels. The fact that we 21 have it in here is because the Commissioner's 22 own agency, the environmental board, decided not 23 to have the California fuels. We merely put 7200 1 into law what they said they would do, even if 2 they did California cars they would not do 3 California fuels, and just the thought of us 4 standing up here on the floor to defend 5 California fuels at a cost of 20 or 30 cents a 6 gallon more than fuels in any surrounding state, 7 that would be economic idiocy to be polite about 8 it. 9 So, Senator, we don't even think 10 it makes a lot of sense to put in here that you 11 can charge 20 or 30 cents a gallon more than 12 anybody else in the surrounding states and think 13 that that's going to make any difference in your 14 air quality in this state. 15 So, Senator, this is a good 16 bill. This bill should be brought forth by the 17 other house, and it should be supported by the 18 Governor and all of you here. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 20 Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, will 22 you yield for a question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 7201 1 yields. Senator Galiber, for a question. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, I was 3 questioning Senator Solomon on some amendment 4 because there were adjustments to be made as a 5 result of testing and the shifting process. 6 I guess what troubles me somewhat 7 is the fact that we have so many memos in 8 opposition to this. Usually we have one and, if 9 we try to identify that group, they have very 10 little standard, if you will, but here we have 11 some objections, and what I guess I'm getting at 12 is if this minimum amount of -- to comply with 13 the federal Clean Air Act saves us X number of 14 dollars, and as a result of monies will be 15 earned, made, what happens to those communities 16 such as the one that I mentioned before, and it 17 was mentioned at our committee meetings, where 18 I'm concerned about the cumulative impact in the 19 community. 20 It's conceivable that we may 21 comply on the one hand but yet do violence to 22 certain communities on the other hand, and I 23 guess more importantly, we are tying - 7202 1 fettering, if you will, the hands of the state 2 regulatory agency, DEC, which you and I don't 3 have similar feelings towards from time to time, 4 from coming into the community under the guise 5 of saying, Well, it doesn't do enough here, but 6 look at the money that we're making. And we 7 have an Assembly person on the other side who 8 says, Well, if we do violence to your community 9 from an environmental standpoint, I have a piece 10 of legislation that I'm going to put in which is 11 going to offer some jobs to that community. 12 That doesn't help at all, because 13 if they offer the jobs and you're killed off, it 14 becomes irrelevant except for those persons who 15 are concerned about making the money. Senator, 16 tell me, if we pass this piece of legislation, 17 will there be communities in our state and in 18 particular in our metropolitan area who will not 19 gain from it, but who will be seriously -- the 20 possibility of being seriously impacted from a 21 negative standpoint as the result of the formula 22 here and as the result of you fettering, if you 23 will, the hands of the regulatory agency. 7203 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Your question 2 is, are there people in the metropolitan area 3 which will be negatively affected by this bill? 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, that's 5 good for openers, Senator. Yes, that's part of 6 it. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: The answer is 8 no, Senator. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: No? 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. The 11 answer is no. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: They may be 14 negatively affected in that they'll have to do 15 car pooling or ride a bus or other things of 16 that nature, Senator, or buy an electric car 17 eventually or other things, but this is going to 18 - 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Will I have to 20 get rid of that old, old car I have because it 21 burns that other kind of gas? I'm not talking 22 about that; I'm talking about health 23 conditions. 7204 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, the 2 only health condition which affects people 3 respiratorily, which presently exists is ozone, 4 ground level ozone, and that, Senator, was only 5 out of compliance four days last year, down from 6 over 120 days ten years ago, so we've made great 7 progress, Senator. This is is like the icing on 8 the cake. You already have the cake. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: But I'm saying, 10 why, again, I know you've answered the question, 11 but again I think in closing off the debate or 12 coming pretty close to it, why again if these 13 memos in opposition keep repeating one serious 14 factor or factors, one factor; that is why are 15 we fettering the hands of DEC or keeping the 16 hands or whatever from imposing stricter 17 regulations where they feel it's necessary? 18 Because it was brought out that there is some 19 nice clean air between here and California but 20 they use that as minimum standards, and it 21 doesn't exist in this area, and I'm not being 22 facetious about it at all. 23 We have a serious, serious 7205 1 problem in the metropolitan area, not only in 2 the city of New York but up in other -- other 3 big metropolitan areas in our state where people 4 are going to be seriously damaged or harmed long 5 range, families, children, as far as their 6 health conditions are concerned as a result of 7 us not being able to have confidence in our 8 regulatory agencies saying, no, you can't come 9 in and arbitrarily set higher standards where 10 they may, in my judgment, be necessary. 11 Why are we doing this? Why are we 12 cutting down -- down on the DEC powers? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, the 14 entire purpose of this bill is to comply with 15 the federal regulations who many have said 16 weren't necessary in the first place. 17 Nevertheless, they're being -- they're being 18 complied with, Senator. They're clean air. And 19 the provisions are adequate. 20 Now, you ask me why -- why do 21 some people put up memos against these things? 22 Because they would like to -- they would like 23 the agencies to charge higher fees than we're 7206 1 permitting under this bill so, therefore, they 2 are as a handmaiden of the DEC, generally, 3 always supportive of more fees, more 4 regulation. 5 Warranty and recall, it's not 6 required at the moment because there's no such 7 California regulations in place. The trip 8 reduction, now, they criticized the trip 9 reduction, and let me see what their problem is 10 with that. Failure to include an enforcement 11 mechanism, or failure to submit plans, et 12 cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's not true. 13 There are penalties for not complying with it. 14 There was some talk about the 15 fines aren't high enough, that some groups want 16 $50,000 fines while the recommendation of the 17 EPA is to have a fine equal to 50 percent of the 18 -- of the -- of the payment which is not made. 19 The fee payment was not made, a fine of 50 20 percent of the fee in addition to collecting the 21 fee. Some people want $50,000. Well, you can 22 give the agencies all the money you want, I 23 guess, but you have to think about the fact that 7207 1 it should be enforceable generally by consent 2 and not by beating or use or digging in 3 everybody's pocket for all the money you can get 4 as a sort of a supplement to the budget. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, I'm 6 not too concerned about the money aspect. What 7 I'm concerned about is the memo from the 8 American Association -- New York State 9 Environmental Planning Lobby, the Sierra Club 10 and just a couple of others and all of them say 11 something which is of concern to me and I'm sure 12 it concerns you. 13 It says the bill also prohibits 14 DEC from adopting any rule or regulation which 15 is tougher than the standard set by EPA for the 16 smog, ozone, and New York State population at 17 risk. Senator, the population at risk includes 18 2,146,891 children and 1,492 -- 1 million, 492 19 million -- 1 billion -- what is it, elderly, and 20 438,492 individuals, in other words the at risk 21 factors for those categories, whatever the 22 numbers may be. They're saying that those 23 persons will be at risk. Is that so? 7208 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: I don't know 2 where you got the figures, Senator, but I doubt 3 it, Senator, since the law which the present 4 federal law and the bill we have here will 5 permit the meeting of all the standards which 6 are thought to affect any health. 7 Now, there may be people that 8 have illnesses which they've had them for 20 or 9 30 years, Senator. It's not going to cure them, 10 but it's not going to foment any further 11 illnesses if this law is put in place. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 25. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Those in 20 the negative please raise your hands. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 7209 1 Leichter to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, just to 3 explain my vote, because there have been 4 references to various groups that have opposed 5 this, but I think it would be helpful to have 6 the whole list read; I'm not sure they all 7 were. It includes the American Lung Association 8 of New York State, the Environmental Planning 9 Lobby, the New York Public Interest Research 10 Group, the Sierra Club, Atlantic Chapter and the 11 League of Women Voters. 12 Mr. President, I vote in the 13 negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 15 Leichter in the negative. Negatives please 16 raise your hands. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 1262 are 19 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Galiber, 20 Halperin, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Levy, 21 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, 22 Onorato, Oppenheimer, Smith, Solomon, Stavisky 23 and Waldon. 7210 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, was my name called? 3 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 4 Masiello. Also Senator Stachowski. Ayes 38, 5 nays 21. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Secretary will read. Senator 9 Galiber, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 11 can I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 12 the negative on a few calendar calls earlier in 13 the day, subject to your approval: 1458, 1484, 14 1492, 1503 and 261. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 16 objection. Senator Gonzalez. 17 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Mr. President, 18 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1476? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 21 objection. Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes requesting 23 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 7211 1 on Calendar Number 1476, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 3 objection. Senator Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Unanimous 5 consent to be recorded in the negative on 6 Calendar 1476. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 8 objection. Any other Senators wish to be 9 recorded in the negative on any bills? 10 Senator Daly, we're going to be 11 -- we have one other bill, and then we'll do 12 some housekeeping. 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1495, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 16 substituted earlier today, Assembly Bill Number 17 7875-B, an act to amend the Penal Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 23 roll. 7212 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 3 one, Senator Gold -- ayes 57, nays two, Senators 4 Gold and Leichter recorded in the negative. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Record me in 6 the negative, Mr. President. 7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 8 Calendar Number 1495, those recorded in the 9 negative are Senators Galiber, Gold and 10 Leichter. Ayes 56, nays 3. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Can I have your attention? We 14 will do some housekeeping, and then there will 15 be a very important memo read after the 16 housekeeping, so please pay attention and listen 17 to the important memo that will be read after we 18 do the housekeeping. 19 Senator Daly. 20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 21 offer the following amendments to Calendar 22 Number 1416, Senate Print 4757-B on page 31 and 23 ask that said bill retain its place on Third 7213 1 Reading Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 3 Amendments received. 4 Senator Lack. 5 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, on 6 page 30, I offer the following amendments to 7 Calendar Number 1386, Senate Print Number 5303, 8 on behalf of Senator Velella, and ask that the 9 said bill retain its place on Third Reading 10 Calendar, and also on page 30, Mr. President, I 11 offer the following amendments to Calendar 12 Number 1391, Senate Print 5886-B. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 14 Amendments received. 15 Senator Maltese. 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 17 on behalf of Senator Mega, on page number 33, I 18 offer the following amendments to Calendar 19 Number 1444, Senate Print Number 5985, and ask 20 that said bill retain its place on the Third 21 Reading Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 23 Amendments received. Senator Saland. 7214 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 2 might I also point out to the attention of all 3 my colleagues the memorandum from my good 4 Assembly colleague Dennis Butler, with reference 5 to religious services for tomorrow. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Thank 7 you, Senator. 8 Senator Saland. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 10 wish to call up my bill 5270 recalled from the 11 Assembly. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Saland, Senate - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary 15 will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: -- Bill 5270, an 17 acted to amend the Executive Law. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 19 wish to reconsider the vote by which this bill 20 was passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 22 roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 7215 1 reconsideration.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Bill is 4 before the house. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 6 offer up the following amendments. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 8 Amendments received. 9 Senator Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 11 President. On behalf of Senator Wright, would 12 you remove the sponsor's star on Calendar Number 13 1000, Senate Print 4277. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Star 15 removed. 16 Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 19 Nozzolio. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 21 I move to to recommit Calendar Number 583 and 22 Calendar Number 586. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Bill is 7216 1 recommitted. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 4 Connors. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. May I have unanimous consent to be 7 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 8 1476? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Without 10 objection. 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 13 President, I wish to call up my bill, Senate 14 Print Number 1588, which is now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Montgomery, Senate Bill Number 1588, authorizing 19 the city of New York to reconvey its interest in 20 certain real property. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I now move 22 to reconsider the vote by which the bill was 23 passed, and ask that it be restored to third 7217 1 reading. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 3 roll on reconsideration. 4 (The Secretary called the roll on 5 reconsideration. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 8 is before the house. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I now move 10 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 11 Assembly Print Number 2673 and substitute it for 12 my identical bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 14 Substitution ordered. Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 21 THE PRESIDENT: There was a home 22 rule message on that bill. The bill is passed. 23 Senator Volker. 7218 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 2 wish to call up my bill, Senate Print Number 3 1539-A which is now at the desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Secretary 5 will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1539 -- Senate Bill Number 1539-A, by Senator 8 Volker, an act to amend the Executive Law. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 10 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 11 bill was passed and ask that the bill be 12 restored to the order of third reading. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 14 roll on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 19 is before the house. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 21 now move to discharge from the Committee on 22 Rules Assembly Print Number 2598-A and 23 substitute it for my identical bill. 7219 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 2 Substitution ordered. The last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Galiber. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Excuse 14 me, Senator Galiber. Senator Volker, did you 15 have something else? 16 SENATOR VOLKER: No, that's O.K. 17 We did it, thank you. I'm sorry. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 19 Galiber. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 21 could you tell me how I was recorded on the 22 clean air bill? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: On 7220 1 Senator Johnson's clean air bill? 2 SENATOR GALIBER: That's correct, 3 sir. Thank you. 4 Any further housekeeping? 5 SENATOR PRESENT: May I make an 6 announcement. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 8 Present for the purpose of an announcement. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Before 10 everybody runs off, I'd like to announce there 11 will be an immediate meeting of the Republican 12 Conference immediately following the adjournment 13 of this session today. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Meeting 15 of the Republican Conference. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Immediate short 17 conference. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Short 19 conference immediately after session of the 20 Republican Majority. 21 The Chair hands down a message 22 from the Assembly. 23 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly 7221 1 returned Senator Spano's bill, Senate Bill 2 Number 2026, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene 3 Law, with amendments. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Concur in 5 the amendments; restore to third reading. 6 Secretary will read some 7 substitutions. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 9 of 9 today's calendar, Senator Hannon moves to 10 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 11 Bill Number 1829-B and substitute it for the 12 identical Third Reading 470. 13 On page 15, Senator LaValle moves 14 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 6521-A and substitute it 16 for the identical Third Reading 725. 17 On page 25, Senator Masiello 18 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 19 Assembly Bill Number 7838-A and substitute it 20 for the identical Third Reading 1185. 21 On page 26, Senator Mega moves to 22 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 23 Bill Number 6677-B and substitute it for the 7222 1 identical Third Reading 1211. 2 On page 29, Senator Marino moves 3 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 4 Assembly Bill Number 8464-A and substitute it 5 for the identical Third Reading 1348. 6 On page 40, Senator Spano moves 7 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 8 Assembly Bill Number 8219-A and substitute it 9 for the identical Third Reading 1502. 10 Now, in relation to the 11 supplemental calendar, Senator Spano moves to 12 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 13 Bill Number 3276 and substitute it for the 14 identical Third Reading 1509. 15 Senator Johnson moves to 16 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 17 Bill Number 6135 and substitute it for the 18 identical Third Reading 1512. 19 Senator Sheffer moves to 20 discharge the Committee on Corporations, 21 Authorities and Commissions from Assembly Bill 22 Number 6381 and substitute it for the identical 23 Third Reading 1513. 7223 1 Senator Goodman moves to 2 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 3 Bill Number 8248-A and substitute it for the 4 identical Third Reading 1517. 5 Senator Velella moves to 6 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 7 Bill Number 7910-A and substitute it for the 8 identical Third Reading 1518. 9 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge 10 the Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 8044 and substitute it for the identical Third 12 Reading 1521. 13 Senator Goodman moves to 14 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 15 Bill Number 8582 and substitute it for the 16 identical Third Reading 1524. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 18 Substitutions ordered. 19 Memorandum dated July 3rd, 1993 20 to all Senators and staff, from Steve Sloan. 21 Subject: Logistics for Sunday, July 4th, 1993. 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: The following 7224 1 arrangements have been coordinated with the 2 Office of General Services and the Capital 3 Police regarding the logistics for Sunday, July 4 4th, 1993, assuming that the Legislature will be 5 in session. 6 General: Number 1. State Street 7 will be closed from South Swan Street to Eagle 8 Street all day Sunday. Any cars parked on the 9 street will be towed. 10 Number 2. Capital Police will be 11 patroling the Empire State Plaza at all times 12 and are available for emergencies. Dial 111. 13 Number 3. Tunnel from the 14 Capitol to the Alfred E. Smith Office Building 15 will be closed all day Sunday. 16 Building access: Number 1. 17 Capitol: The building will be open to members, 18 staff and the public. Capital Police will 19 patrol the third and fourth floor, Senate and 20 Assembly chamber and gallery areas. 21 Number 2. Legislative Office 22 Building. Building will be open to members, 23 staff and public. The Plaza level door east end 7225 1 of building on the second floor will be locked. 2 Please use the Concourse level entrance for 3 access to the building. 4 Number 3. Agency Building 4: 5 Senate and Assembly staff with access cards will 6 be granted entry. If the access card system is 7 operating, an OGS security person will approve 8 access for staff presenting an access card. 9 Parking: Number one. P-3 member 10 parking area. The access gate will be open, but 11 pylon cones will be blocking the access road 12 way. Members should go around the pylon cones 13 and park in assigned spots. 14 Number 2. P-2. Employee parking 15 area. Access will be available and no shortage 16 of parking spots is expected prior to 4:00 p.m. 17 After 4:00 p.m., there is no guarantee of 18 parking; so plan accordingly. 19 Number 3. Closing of roads: All 20 roads leading into the Empire State Plaza garage 21 will be closed at approximately 7:00 p.m. and 22 will not reopen until after the fireworks have 23 concluded, and the bulk of those parking in the 7226 1 garage have left. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: Senator 3 Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 there being no further business, I'd remind 6 again that there's an immediate conference of 7 the Majority following the adjournment of this 8 session tonight. 9 I now move that we adjourn until 10 tomorrow at 1:30 and would announce that we're 11 going to continue to work tomorrow until we 12 finish this session. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: 14 Adjournment as indicated. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there a 16 vote on the motion to adjourn? Please record me 17 in the negative on the motion to adjourn. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEGA: You're in 19 the record. 20 We're adjourned until tomorrow at 21 1:30. Immediate meeting of the Majority. 22 (Whereupon at 8:05 p.m., the 23 Senate adjourned.)