Tuesday, July 6, 1993

7724 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 July 6, 1993 11 3:50 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR STAN LUNDINE, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 7725 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. The Senators will please find 4 their places. 5 I would like to ask everyone 6 present to rise and repeat the Pledge of 7 Allegiance with me. 8 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in 9 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 10 THE PRESIDENT: The prayer this 11 afternoon will be given by Father Peter G. Young 12 of the Blessed Sacrament Church, Bolton 13 Landing. Father Young. 14 THE REVEREND PETER G. YOUNG: Dear 15 God, as we gather in this chamber and as we are 16 aware of the great patriotic belief and 17 foundation that we all have, may we pray that 18 the countries that are suffering under 19 dictatorship, under the lack of freedom, under 20 the lack of rights for those who are human 21 beings, may we in our legislative process 22 attempt to do what we can to show that the 23 example of this government can work as a way of 7726 1 leadership, as a way of freedom, and as a way of 2 democracy. 3 We ask You this now and forever. 4 Amen. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 6 read the Journal. 7 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 8 Monday, July 5, the Senate met pursuant to 9 adjournment, Senator Farley in the chair upon 10 designation of the Temporary President. The 11 Journal of Sunday, July 4, was read and 12 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no 14 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 15 Presentation of petitions. 16 Messages from the Assembly. 17 Messages from the Governor. 18 Reports of standing committees. 19 Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 21 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 22 following bills directly for third reading: 23 Senate Bill Number 50A, by 7727 1 Senator Holland, an act to amend the Judiciary 2 Law. 3 1540A, by Senator LaValle, an act 4 to amend the Education Law. 5 1847, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 6 amend the General City Law. 7 4227, by Senator Volker, Erie 8 County Tax Act. 9 4300, by Senator Volker, Erie 10 County Tax Act. 11 4622A, by Senator Johnson, 12 Environmental Conservation Law. 13 4735, by Senator Velella, 14 Insurance Law. 15 4862A, by Senator Spano, Public 16 Health Law. 17 4970B, by Senator Stafford, 18 allowing David A. Raylinski, a state employee, 19 retroactive membership in Tier I. 20 5020, by Senator Sheffer, Labor 21 Law and the Workers' Compensation Law. 22 5254B, by Senator Daly, Public 23 Authorities Law. 7728 1 5400A, by Senator Hannon, Public 2 Authorities Law. 3 5561, by Senator Mega, 4 Surrogate's Court Procedure Act. 5 5845A, by Senator Volker, Vehicle 6 and Traffic Law. 7 6028B, by Senator Skelos, 8 Insurance Law. 9 6034, by Senator DeFrancisco, 10 Highway Law. 11 6121, by Senator Sheffer, 12 prohibit the Commissioner of Environmental 13 Conservation issuing Monroe County a permit. 14 6125, by the Committee on Rules, 15 authorizing an apportionment of state aid for 16 certain salary expenses. 17 6137, by the Committee on Rules, 18 Environmental Conservation Law. 19 6139, by the Committee on Rules, 20 amends Chapter 63 of the Laws of 1993. 21 6148, by Senator Tully, payment 22 allowances to private blind and deaf schools. 23 6151, by the Committee on Rules, 7729 1 an act Petroleum Over Charge Restitution Act of 2 1993. 3 6153, by Senator Farley, 4 Retirement and Social Security Law. 5 6159, by the Committee on Rules, 6 Education Law. 7 6161A, by Senator Sears, 8 Agriculture and Markets Law. 9 6163, by Senator LaValle, 10 Environmental Conservation Law. 11 6164, by the Committee on Rules, 12 reorganization of the Otego-Unadilla Central 13 School. 14 6165, by Senator Levy, Vehicle 15 and Traffic Law. 16 And 6187, by Senator Mendez, 17 Executive Law. 18 All bills reported directly for 19 third reading. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Third reading. 21 Reports of select committees. 22 Communications and reports from 23 state officers. 7730 1 Motions and resolutions. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I wish to call up Senator Marino's bill, 6147, 5 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 6 desk. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 8 read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By the Senate 10 Committee on Rules, Senate Bill Number 6147, an 11 act to amend a chapter of the laws of 1993, as 12 proposed in legislative Bill Number S. 6085. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 15 bill was passed and ask that the bill be 16 restored to the order of third reading. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 18 will call the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll on 20 reconsideration. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 before the house. 7731 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 the bill now having been restored to its place 3 on Third Reading Calendar, I move to discharge 4 from the Committee on Rules Assembly Print 8803 5 and substitute it for Senator Marino's identical 6 bill, and ask that it be passed with the same 7 vote that it passed the first time. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 9 ordered. 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 16 one. Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 21 I move to amend Senate Bill Number 5906C, by 22 striking out the amendments made on June 29, 23 1993, and restoring it to its previous Print 7732 1 Number 5906A. 2 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 6 of 5 today's calendar, Senator Libous moves to 6 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 7 Bill Number 2420C and substitute it for the 8 identical Calendar Number 317. 9 On page 12, Senator Nolan moves 10 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 11 Assembly Bill Number 4906A and substitute it for 12 the identical Third Reading 722. 13 On page 12, Senator Sears moves 14 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 2991A and substitute it for 16 the identical Third Reading 734. 17 On page 17, Senator Tully moves 18 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 19 Assembly Bill Number 1250A and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading 902. 21 On page 18, Senator Larkin moves 22 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 23 Assembly Bill Number 8144A and substitute it for 7733 1 the identical Third Reading 980. 2 On page 20, Senator Saland moves 3 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 4 Assembly Bill Number 8294A and substitute it for 5 the identical Third Reading 1133. 6 On page 30, Senator Marino moves 7 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 8 Assembly Bill Number 8751 and substitute it for 9 the identical Third Reading 1553. 10 On page 30, Senator LaValle moves 11 to discharge the Committee on rules from 12 Assembly Bill Number 8797 and substitute it for 13 the identical Third Reading 1564. 14 On page 32, Senator Marino moves 15 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 16 Assembly Bill Number 8780 and substitute it for 17 the identical Third Reading 1583. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 19 ordered. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar 23 with the exception of Resolution Number 1982. 7734 1 THE PRESIDENT: On the 2 resolutions. All those in favor, say aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Opposed, nay. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 The ayes have it. The 7 resolutions are adopted. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 would you recognize Senator Larkin, please. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Larkin. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 12 have a privileged resolution at the desk, and I 13 ask that it be read. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 15 read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 17 Resolution, by Senator Larkin, commemorating the 18 40th Anniversary of the signing of the Armistice 19 ending the Korean War. 20 WHEREAS, thousands of military 21 personnel from the great state of New York have 22 served faithfully and courageously, with 23 dedication and sacrifice, in service to their 7735 1 country, and are due the praise and just 2 recognition of this legislative body for their 3 role in defense of our nation's liberty and 4 freedom. 5 On July 27, 1953, three years and 6 32 days after the North Korean forces penetrated 7 the 38th parallel to launch the Korean War, 8 hostilities ended, at approximately the point 9 they had begun, with the signing of an 10 Armistice. 11 In response to a June 27, 1950 12 United Nations Resolution calling for assistance 13 for the Republican of Korea (South Korea), 14 President Harry Truman ordered American air and 15 naval forces activated and, on June 30, 1950, 16 committed ground forces to the Korean battle 17 zone. 18 A conflict of virulent 19 devastation, the Korean War represented a battle 20 of ideologies -- communism versus democracy; it 21 involved or impacted upon all of the world's 22 major powers, caused devastation of Korea, and 23 resulted in the loss of over one million lives, 7736 1 including nearly 55,000 Americans, before the 2 Armistice was signed at Panmunjom dividing Korea 3 into two separate nations at a line marked by 4 the 38th parallel. 5 Before the hostilities had ended 6 in 1953, 5.7 million Americans had served in the 7 conflict, of which 482,000 were from New York 8 State, including the 2200 who gave their lives 9 for their country. 10 Often called the "forgotten 11 veterans" due to the Korean War's inconclusive 12 ending, and its chronological place in history 13 between World War II and the ten-year Vietnam 14 War, Korean War veterans, and the families of 15 those who died or are missing, have faithfully 16 endeavored to help the citizens of this great 17 state and nation in their understanding of, and 18 appreciation for, the courage, commitment and 19 sacrifices made by America's servicemen and 20 women in that first great struggle against 21 communism. 22 To commemorate the 40th 23 Anniversary of the signing of the truce ending 7737 1 the Korean War, veterans and their families will 2 take part in a number of events and memorial 3 activities scheduled for July 27, 1993; among 4 these are the unveiling of the commissioned 40th 5 Anniversary portrait of George Skipek with 6 numbered copies presented to the ambassadors of 7 the 22 nations which participated under the 8 United Nations command; a memorial ceremony will 9 be held at the Arlington National Cemetery 10 Amphitheatre, including a wreath-laying at the 11 tomb of the unknowns and a traditional laying of 12 the chrysanthemums on the Korean War Veterans 13 meditations bench; a special "No Greater Love" 14 program and luncheon for sons, daughters and 15 other relatives or friends who lost, or have 16 missing, a loved one from the war; and various 17 other anniversary activities organized by a 18 non-affiliated group of Korean War veterans 19 known as the "Gathering." 20 It is the sense and presence of 21 this legislative body, acting on behalf of the 22 citizens of this great Empire State to act now, 23 with great respect and reverent esteem, in 7738 1 honoring the members of the armed services who 2 have served their state and nation so valiantly 3 and honorably in the defense of freedom and 4 democracy; now, therefore, be it 5 RESOLVED, that this legislative 6 body pause in its deliberations to commemorate 7 the 40th Anniversary of the conclusion of the 8 Korean conflict, July 27, 1953; renewing its 9 tribute to the men and women of New York State 10 who served so faithfully and courageously on 11 behalf of their state and nation in defense of 12 democracy and freedom, and be it further 13 RESOLVED, that copies of this 14 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 15 to the veterans service organizations of New 16 York State. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 18 on the adoption of the resolution. All those in 19 favor say aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 The ayes have it. The resolution 7739 1 is adopted. 2 Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 4 would like to leave it at the desk open for 5 any other members who would like to join with 6 me. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 8 put everybody on it. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Every member will 10 be on the resolution. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Regular order, 12 Mr. President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: We're at the 14 calendar. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: 16 Non-controversial calendar, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 18 Calendar Number 200, by Senator Saland, Senate 19 Bill Number 766B, an act to amend the Executive 20 Law, and the Education Law. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 23 aside. 7740 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 305, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 1937, 3 with an Assembly Reprint Number of 30,002, Court 4 of Claims Act, in relation to settlement of 5 claims. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. Nays 13 one, Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 317, substituted earlier today, by member of the 18 Assembly Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 2420C, 19 an act to amend the Public Health Law, creating 20 an office for traumatic brain injury. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7741 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6 passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 395, by member of the Assembly Parment, Assembly 9 Bill Number 3819B, an act to amend the 10 Agriculture and Markets Law. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 470, by member of the Assembly Lasher. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 18 aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 495, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 21 3583A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 23 section. 7742 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 528, by member of the Assembly Seminario, 10 Assembly Bill Number 3952B, an act to amend the 11 Labor Law, in relation to drug testing. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 14 aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 897, by member of the' Assembly Bragman. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 18, 21 Calendar Number 980, substituted earliere today, 22 by the Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly 23 Bill Number 8144A, authorizing the city of 7743 1 Newburgh to issue serial bonds. 2 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 3 rule message at the desk. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 11 passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5263, 14 an act to amend the Labor Law. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1255. 7744 1 THE PRESIDENT: That bill will be 2 laid aside. It's high. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1324, by Senator Mendez, Senate Bill Number 5 2579A, to permit Robin L. Lieberman death 6 benefit coverage. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 8 section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 2. 14 Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 15 negative. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1338, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 20 5206, Real Property Actions and Proceedings Law. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 23 aside. 7745 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1371, by member of the Assembly Lasher, Assembly 3 Bill Number 5823, Real Property Law. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1385, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 9 5297B, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 17 one, Senator Daly recorded in the negative. I'm 18 sorry. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Also Senator 20 Farley. The bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 22 recorded in the negative. 23 In relation to Calendar Number 7746 1 1385, those recorded in the negative are 2 Senators Daly, Farley, Pataki, Saland, Seward, 3 Skelos, and also Senator Wright. Ayes 33, nays 4 7. Also Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative, 5 also Senator Libous recorded in the negative. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1386, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 10 5303A, an act to amend the Insurance Law and the 11 Tax Law. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1391, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 5886A, 16 Workers' Compensation Law. 17 SENATOR DALY: Lay it aside. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1444, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 5985A, 22 Uniform City Court Act. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 7747 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 1444 are 8 Senators Cook, Daly, Jones, Kuhl, LaValle, 9 Libous, Pataki, Saland, Seward, Skelos, and 10 Stachowski, also Senator Hoffmann, also Senator 11 Padavan, also Senator Larkin. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay the bill 13 aside. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1452, by the Senate Committee on Rules. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1454, by the Committee on Rules. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 7748 1 aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1514, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 6 Assembly Bill Number 8403A, Criminal Procedure 7 Law. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 9 section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1529. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 high. It will be laid aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1548, by the Assembly Committee on Rules. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 7749 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 2 aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1552, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 5 Bill Number 6084, Private Housing Finance Law. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1553, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 17 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8751, 18 an act to amend the Tax Law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1580, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7750 1 Assembly Bill Number 8652. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 3 aside. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1581, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 61 - 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 10 aside. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1582, by the Senate committee - 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Lay it aside. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1583, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 20 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8780a, 21 General Municipal Law and the Public Authorities 22 Law. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 7751 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1585, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 11 6130, authorizing an apportionment of state aid 12 for certain capital expenditures. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 15 aside. 16 That completes action on the 17 non-controversial. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 19 may we proceed with the controversial calendar. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 21 read. 22 THE SECRETARY: And there will be 23 order in the chamber. Secretary will read. 7752 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 2 Calendar Number 200, by Senator Saland, Senate 3 Bill Number 766B, an act to amend the Executive 4 Law and the Education Law. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 6 Explanation. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 8 requested. 9 Senator Saland does not appear to 10 be present. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 12 for the moment. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 14 aside. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Bring up 16 Calendar 1585, please. 17 THE PRESIDENT: 1585. All 18 right. On page 32 of today's calendar. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1585, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 21 6130, authorizing an apportionment of state aid 22 for certain capital expenditures. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 7753 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 10 Calendar Number 395, by member of the Assembly 11 Parment, Assembly Bill 3819B, Agriculture and 12 Markets Law. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside 14 temporarily. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 16 aside temporarily. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 18 Calendar Number 470, by member of the Assembly 19 Lasher, Assembly Bill Number 1829B. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, Mr. 7754 1 President, may we return to Calendar Number 200. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 200, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 766B, 4 Executive Law and the Education Law. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Saland, 6 we're on Calendar Number 200 and an explanation 7 was requested earlier. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 Mr. President, this bill is the 11 so-called Campus Security Act, and what it does, 12 Mr. President, is it builds upon the federal 13 legislation that was passed a couple of years 14 ago and which currently requires certain campus 15 reporting. What we have done in this bill is to 16 require the reporting of certain enumerated 17 crimes, crimes which are consistent with the 18 current forms that have been compiled by DCJS. 19 We have worked with DCJS in enumerating these 20 crimes, as we have with SUNY, with CICU, and 21 with CUNY, as well. 22 We have worked very closely with 23 all of those organizations, and all of them have 7755 1 withdrawn any objections that they may have had 2 to this bill, and I believe, in fact, at the 3 very least SUNY may have put out a supportive 4 memorandum. 5 The bill not only provides for 6 certain enumerated crimes that would have to be 7 reported, the idea being that when a student 8 goes off to college, or somebody who works at a 9 given college or university, would want to 10 inquire into whether that campus for some reason 11 or other had a significant incidence of certain 12 crimes, there should be no reason why that that 13 person shouldn't be able to get that 14 information. 15 It's much like a consumer 16 notification type of a statute. The other 17 portion of the bill deals with certain security 18 disclosure. We require, among other things, the 19 number of campus security personnel, as against 20 the number of students. We require certain 21 disclosure as to the types of security that a 22 given college or university provides. 23 The bottom line on this bill, Mr. 7756 1 President, is that it's a device that's intended 2 to make universities and colleges certainly far 3 more focused on the type of security that they 4 are providing, make them well aware of the fact 5 that there is a public out there that has a 6 right to know. It makes them provide not merely 7 data but pertinent security information. 8 It doesn't merely build upon but 9 improves the federal legislation that's been on 10 the books now for about a year or so. It's a 11 bill which, with the exception of the chairman 12 of the Higher Education Committee in the 13 Assembly, has been well received by all 14 quarters. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you 16 for the explanation, Senator Saland. 17 I don't have any questions of 18 this, except that I very much support it and 19 would love to see the bill move in the other 20 house as well as in this house. 21 You may recall, last year I 22 offered some amendments. Because while I think 23 security is very important to me and I think 7757 1 these improvements should be well received by 2 the education community, I would rather, as you 3 know, have put the emphasis on prevention and 4 education, and it would be my hope that in the 5 future years we could look at legislation that 6 would provide for education in orientation week 7 at the colleges and universities so these 17 8 and 18-year-olds first coming away from the home 9 would know that there are certain crimes that 10 are crimes whether they are in the ivory tower 11 in college or whether it's out on the street, 12 that rape is a felony no matter where it is 13 committed, and a certain sensitivity that we 14 could heighten among the youngsters if we 15 offered the orientation. That would be part one. 16 The second part that I would like 17 to see in the future would be more supportive 18 services. 19 Can you hear me? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me, Mr. 21 President. Could I have some order? I'm having a 22 little difficult time hearing Senator 23 Oppenheimer. 7758 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Sorry, 2 Senator Saland. 3 (Whereupon, the President gaveled 4 for order. ) 5 SENATOR SALAND: I have no 6 problem. There is just a little bit of a din 7 around here. Thank you. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We have 9 mentioned this, and I think we are in agreement, 10 that the education in orientation and then 11 continuing through the college career to 12 heighten sensitivity and awareness and to make 13 them understand that a felony crime is a felony 14 crime no matter where it is committed, whether 15 on campus or off. 16 And the other piece that I would 17 like to see moved in the future is more support 18 services on the campus in crisis intervention 19 service so that people in need, a rape victim, 20 for example, would be able to go to a supportive 21 environment where they could get the kind of 22 physical, emotional, legal, help which is so 23 essential to keeping these young women in school 7759 1 after this kind of an incident. We know how 2 prevalent this incident is, and we really would 3 like to do more to intervene and stop the crime 4 before it happens. 5 But I welcome your bill, and we 6 should continue to do all we can in the Assembly 7 to move it. 8 Thank you. I vote in favor. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Just in closing, 10 I would just like to acknowledge Senator 11 LaValle's interest and efforts. He's worked 12 very closely with my office in putting this bill 13 together, having a keen interest as the chairman 14 of Higher Ed in trying to resolve this issue, 15 and I would like to hope that we can resolve it 16 in the remaining hours of this session, but that 17 remains to be seen. 18 Thank you. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 22 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 23 September next succeeding the date on which it 7760 1 shall have become a law. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 5 one, Senator Cook recorded in the negative. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 8, 528, 9 by member of the Assembly Seminario, Assembly 10 Bill Number 3952B, Labor Law, in relation to 11 drug testing of police officers. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 14 temporarily, Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 16 aside. 17 SENATOR MEGA: Mr. President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mega. 19 SENATOR MEGA: Can we go to page 20 30. An objection has been removed on my bill, 21 and maybe we can pass it, Calendar 1553. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 23 read. 7761 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1553, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 3 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 6751, 4 an act to amend the Tax Law. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Wait. An 14 explanation - 15 Did someone ask for an 16 explanation on this bill? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: We will have to 18 go to regular order. Go back to regular order. 19 SENATOR MEGA: I apologize. I 20 thought that an objection had been removed. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 17, 7762 1 Calendar Number 897, by member of the Assembly 2 Bragman, Assembly Bill Number 7171A, an act to 3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: Explanation. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 7 requested. Senator Libous is recognized, and 8 there will be order in the chamber. 9 (Whereupon, the President gaveled 10 for order. ) 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. This bill passed this chamber 57 to 14 nothing earlier this year, and basically what it 15 does is it requires a mandatory six months 16 suspension or up to one year of revocation of 17 driver's license for any individual convicted in 18 connection with certain drug-related offenses. 19 It's the Governor's program bill. 20 The urgency of the bill is the fact that the 21 Assembly wanted to amend it so that they could 22 pass it over there, so we amended it to the 23 Assembly's liking so it could get through, and 7763 1 there's $16 million of federal highway money 2 that's attached to this if we pass it. 3 The bill is not as strong as I 4 would like it to be, but the money is important 5 to us, and the Assembly needed to make some 6 changes so it could pass on a close vote just 7 earlier this week. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Does Senator 10 Galiber wish recognition? 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, will 14 you yield for a question? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, I was 17 out of the chamber when this bill passed 18 originally. I think I was here probably the 19 year before when I voted against the bill. 20 So, for the record, I'm happy to 21 see the bill back before this body. 22 Senator, you and I are deeply 23 concerned about this drug problem. I think 7764 1 probably anyone within the sound of my voice 2 will agree that we have a serious problem in our 3 state and in our nation, very frankly, that 4 drugs have been directly or indirectly the 5 causal factors for a number of horrible things 6 that have happened. 7 We all have different approaches 8 to how we suggest that this problem be solved. 9 On occasion, we get frustrated and we think it's 10 one of those unresolvable matters. 11 You know and some of my 12 colleagues, or most of them, know my position in 13 terms of dealing with it, and my concern about 14 your piece of legislation is that it manifests 15 the frustration that we have in terms of our 16 inability to solve this very deep and serious 17 problem that is spreading like a plague 18 especially in America. 19 You know and I know that America 20 is the prime user of illegal drugs, and we have 21 to do something about it. We have a new czar. 22 I hope he acts a little different than the old 23 czar, but czars are czars. I heard him the 7765 1 other day, and the only thing that I can say 2 that makes a big difference -- I hope it will 3 make a big difference -- is that he is now 4 putting a great deal of emphasis on the area 5 that you are deeply concerned with, and I am 6 also, and that's treatment on demand, education 7 and prevention, and certainly education not in 8 the senior year where you have a two-hour course 9 on drug prevention but early on in Head Start 10 programs. 11 So I'm happy to hear that its 12 emphasis is there, not to suggest that it hasn't 13 taken the political approach and still wants to 14 do a lot about those impossible dreams that we 15 fight windmills for in the war on drugs, this 16 everylasting holy war that we have, which 17 certainly we're not winning. 18 What troubles me about this bill, 19 among other things, is that there is a bad 20 notion floating around that if we do not pass 21 this piece of legislation that we put in 22 jeopardy the monies that are flowing from 23 Washington, and I don't believe that's so. 7766 1 And that's one of the questions I 2 would like to ask you. Senator, if we do not 3 pass this piece of legislation, but yet we make 4 a declaration, the Governor and this legislative 5 body -- or put it another way. Withdrawn. Put 6 it another way. There is another alternative to 7 our not losing highway monies by not passing 8 this bill, or if we do not pass this bill, there 9 is a way we can still get the highway monies. Is 10 that correct? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, there 12 are other groups who this past summer had press 13 conferences that made statements to the effect 14 that this bill did not have to pass, that the 15 federal funds were not connected. Senator, to 16 the best of my ability though the information 17 provided our counsels and our staff from the 18 federal government and from the Governor's 19 office is that this legislation needs to be 20 passed or the attachment of the $16 million in 21 federal highway dollars will be lost. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, if I 23 could bring proof, not from this side of the 7767 1 aisle or from Joe Galiber but from some reliable 2 sources that certainly you may or may not 3 accept, but reliable sources, that would 4 indicate that this bill is not necessary, that 5 this bill does not necessarily put into jeopardy 6 the highway monies. It is my understanding - 7 it is my understanding that other states have 8 rejected this notion of taking licenses away 9 from people and have not put their state in 10 jeopardy for federal monies. Is that so? Because 11 if that's so then your last statement is not so. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, I can't 13 speak for other states. I really can't. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: I understand 15 that. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: And I don't know 17 what the other states did. Alls I know is that 18 -- that we have been approached by a couple of 19 groups, one being the ACLU, who has campaigned 20 very heavily against this, saying that the 21 legislation is not needed, the best of my 22 information that I can give you is based on my 23 information and working with the Governor's 7768 1 people that they feel strongly, as we do, that 2 we need to move forward on this. 3 That's as accurate information as 4 I can give you, Senator Galiber. I certainly 5 have respect for your opinion and I'm sure that 6 your sources mean well, but I can only account 7 for the people that we have dealt with here both 8 on the second floor and within our own offices. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator yield 10 for another question? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: He certainly 12 will. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: It sounds a bit 14 arrogant, but I know you don't mean it. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, 16 absolutely not. I have no intentions of being 17 arrogant. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: I know that. I 19 haven't finished the statement yet. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would never want 21 to give you that impression. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: That's why I 23 said it sounded that way. 7769 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: I wanted to 3 clear it up for those within the sound of my 4 voice who don't know you as I know you, lest 5 they misunderstand you. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would hope 7 they would not - 8 SENATOR GALIBER: The fact that 9 you mentioned that there was -- you are not 10 interested in what other states are doing about 11 this, that may be so. I'm not sure it's a 12 response to the question that I asked. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 14 if I could maybe clarify that? I don't believe I 15 said that I didn't care what other states are 16 doing. I said that I only know what we're doing 17 in New York State and the information that was 18 provided me through both the counsels on the 19 second floor and my own people. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Then, 21 Senator, those reliable sources, if we could 22 bring you proof from the second floor that there 23 is in fact an alternative -- I know this is just 7770 1 one phase of the bill. There is an alternative 2 to passing this piece of legislation without 3 putting that one part, highway funds, in 4 jeopardy, would you withdraw that section of the 5 bill? Would you hold it until we can find that 6 out? 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's a fair 8 question. And, Mr. President, my answer to 9 Senator Galiber is no, I would not because I 10 feel very strongly about this legislation. I 11 would not do that. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Is it 13 fair then, Senator, to say that notwithstanding 14 the fact that this may not put federal funds - 15 and perhaps we can move on to the next phase. 16 Notwithstanding the fact that this piece of 17 legislation may very well not put federal funds 18 into jeopardy if it were not passed, there are 19 other stronger reasons that you have for this 20 bill being passed? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct, 22 Mr. President. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Let's 7771 1 then move on from that because this part I am 2 arguing is obviously irrelevant. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: I just wanted 5 to say, Mr. President, for the record, that 6 there is an alternative to passing this piece of 7 legislation for those who are purist, if you 8 will, who believe strongly that if this piece of 9 legislation does not pass we will then be 10 putting our state in jeopardy of a large sum of 11 money, and that's not so. 12 Other states have opted out of 13 this, and they have opted out of it, my 14 colleagues, because they see absolutely no 15 connection, none whatsoever, between this piece 16 of legislation and our drug problem. 17 This penalizing people for being 18 apprehended in a car, or nearby, or if you are 19 caught with someone who is smoking a joint or 20 whatever it is, you will then put your lines in 21 jeopardy for the future even if you do not have 22 a license. There is absolutely no connection 23 whatsoever. 7772 1 Persons who unfortunately are the 2 users of drugs, it's been mentioned here and 3 other places just recently, we have a public 4 health problem, and we have to resolve this 5 public health problem, but we have laws in 6 certain states to suggest that if you are 7 apprehended and convicted of drugs, we're going 8 to take the doctor's lines away from them, the 9 lawyer's lines away from them, and the Indian 10 chief's license away, if we has a license in 11 some states. All this with no relationship 12 whatsoever, no relationship whatsoever, to the 13 problem of drug use in this great country of 14 ours. 15 The laws that are being passed is 16 because of a frustration that is taking place, 17 pure unadulterated frustration, and those 18 persons who may have absolutely nothing to do 19 with the use of drugs, whether they do or not, 20 in my judgment they should not be penalized in 21 this way. 22 Because what you are really 23 doing, Senator, is taking the work - 7773 1 possibility of someone's work away from them, 2 and I think they probably added a little 3 section, I think, and I'm not sure whether they 4 attributed it to or -- not attributed to, but 5 used it in the same way as if you are 6 apprehended for the use of driving while 7 intoxicated; that if you can show -- and this 8 really is the most interesting part or one of 9 the interesting parts of the bill, that if you 10 can show that you need your license for work, 11 then you can go -- I think, Senator, it's new 12 and I haven't read it -- take a driver's course 13 or go to the Motor Vehicle and say, I need this. 14 It is a must with me, and would you please give 15 me a break. It has nothing to do with curing my 16 drug use, if there is harm from the drugs, and 17 you and I both know that that's probably not so. 18 The fact of the matter -- I speak 19 on this bill, and I've obviously been around 20 long enough to know that it is a very 21 frustrating thing not only for some of us who 22 believe that until we take this profit out of 23 drug trafficking, drug trafficking profit, if we 7774 1 don't take the profit out, we're not going to 2 solve this problem. 3 We can take away basic human 4 rights. We can take away licenses. We can take 5 away privileges from people, but the fact of the 6 matter is, Senator, there is absolutely no 7 relationship with what you are attempting to do 8 and the problem that we have with drug addiction 9 in this great nation of ours. We have to look 10 at it from a different point. 11 Because slowly, bit by bit, we 12 find ourselves stepping into areas where we 13 should not be, and you can start to read off the 14 litany of punishing things -- not solving, us 15 just punishing for the sake of punishing. Take 16 that person's license away if they are caught 17 and apprehended. In one part of the nation, one 18 state suggested that we take them out -- what is 19 it, the nine tails, the cats they use to whip 20 people with? Somewhere, we're going to punish 21 them that way. How far will we go? 22 So, colleagues, those of you who 23 vote for this piece of legislation not out of 7775 1 just having raw votes to do it, if any of you 2 are under the apprehension that this state of 3 ours is going to lose money if we don't pass 4 this piece of legislation, it's not so. Because 5 if we pass this piece of legislation, I've 6 always said this is close to what I talk about 7 in terms of "big brother". I mention it quite 8 often. We're at a point now out of this 9 frustration for the drugs that we're going to 10 invade the privacy of people's homes. We're 11 going to take away certain things from them, 12 merely because we can't solve this problem. 13 So, Mr. President, I thank this 14 body for an opportunity to say that we're going 15 in the wrong direction; that until we come 16 around to the point where we realize that this 17 is not the answer, that this is not going to 18 deter -- every law that we pass, Senator, and 19 you know this like every lawyer does or someone 20 who is related to a lawyer knows that when we 21 put something in the Penal Law, we put it in 22 under the theory anyway -- it's supposed to be 23 actuality, but in theory, that it serves as a 7776 1 deterrent; that if people commit a crime, it 2 will stop them because they will be deterred 3 from doing it again. 4 And we have found out the hard 5 way over a period of ten years -- running off on 6 a tangent, yes. It's connected. Over a period 7 of ten years now what we've done is, under the 8 guise of getting tough on crime, we have 9 increased penalties. We have accelerated. We 10 have done all these things under the guise of 11 saying we will deter people from committing 12 crimes. 13 Our crime rate, and you know it 14 as well as I, has not dropped any significant 15 amount of degree in the ten years of this policy 16 of get tough on crime. It hasn't worked. It 17 hasn't served as a deterrent. 18 And though this is a privilege 19 that we can hide behind the notion, Senator, 20 this isn't an absolute right. Licenses are 21 privileges. I'm saying we've gone too far, and 22 I see, year by year, we start to nible away at 23 those basic civil rights, personal rights that 7777 1 people have, where there is absolutely no 2 connection, whatsoever, in terms of this very 3 serious problem that we have in this nation. 4 Mr. President, after saying all 5 that, and thank you for your patience, I would 6 like to be recorded in the negative on this 7 piece of legislation. 8 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Onorato. 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Will the 11 sponsor yield for a question, please? 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, Mr. 13 President, I will. 14 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator Libous, 15 I'm just a little confused on it. We did pass 16 this earlier. I was just wondering, is this 17 true, that regardless of the fact if you were 18 convicted of a drug violation, even though you 19 weren't in the automobile driving it at that 20 time, you will still get it? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Does it apply 23 to any other crime? If you are convicted of 7778 1 indecent exposure or you are convicted of being 2 drunk and lewd in public, an alcoholic, does 3 that also forfeit your license to drive? 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 5 just drug-related crimes. 6 SENATOR ONORATO: Only 7 drug-related? 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 9 SENATOR ONORATO: Regardless of 10 the fact that they happened while you were in an 11 automobile or not? 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct. 13 SENATOR ONORATO: You don't have 14 to be in an automobile? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Thank you. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7779 1 the negative on Calendar Number 897 are Senators 2 Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Ohrenstein and 3 Onorato. Ayes 47, nays 5. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: On page 22, 7 Calendar Number 1251, by Senator Lack, Senate 8 Bill Number 5263, an act to amend the Labor Law. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: 1338. On page 13 24, Calendar Number 1338, by Senator Hannon. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1371. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Just hold one 23 second, Mr. President. 7780 1 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 2 the proceedings. ) 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 4 would you call up Calendar Number 1581. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Without objection. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1581, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 6115, an act to amend the Public 9 Health Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 12 requested. Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: This bill amends 14 the Public Health Law, among others, in relation 15 to hospital reimbursement and health care 16 reform. The primary feature of this bill is the 17 continuation of New York's prospective hospital 18 reimbursement methodology for two years 19 beginning - 20 (Whereupon, the President gaveled 21 for order. ) 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully. 23 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 7781 1 President. The primary feature of this bill is 2 the continuation of New York's prospective 3 hospital reimbursement methodology, otherwise 4 known as NYPHRM, for two years beginning January 5 1, 1994. 6 Payments for in-patient services 7 are regulated by the state through the NYPHRM 8 system, and this legislation extends that system 9 and provides rate adjustments in the amount of 10 $181 million to all payors, Medicaid, commercial 11 carriers, Workmen's Compensation, et cetera. 12 The legislation also provides for 13 the establishment of progressive, critically 14 needed health care reform to increase access to 15 health care services and improve and safeguard 16 the quality of health care. 17 In response to finance and 18 reimbursement systems, there are reforms to 19 universally establish ambulatory reimbursement 20 demonstration programs, develop uniform bills, 21 establish a health services electronic claims 22 clearing house. 23 And after the bill has been 7782 1 enacted and signed into law by the Governor and 2 it has been in effect for at least one year, we 3 anticipate savings of over $200 million, which 4 will be far in excess of the amount that is 5 being provided to the hospitals in this 6 particular piece of legislation. 7 It also provides grants for 8 hospital management information system 9 improvements and establishes regulatory reform 10 demonstration programs. 11 In response to access and 12 delivery of care, there are initiatives to 13 provide grants for primary care development, a 14 comprehensive primary care education and 15 training initiative to encourage the training of 16 primary care physicians and practitioners, 17 provide additional funding for the Child Health 18 Plus program, and establish reasonable targets 19 for the enrollment of Medicaid recipients into 20 HMOs. 21 Finally to provide New York with 22 an ability to respond to demands from the 23 federal government, this legislation provides 7783 1 for a stronger planning system through the 2 reorganization of the current health system 3 agencies with adequate financial support, the 4 creation of grants for collaboration among 5 health care providers in regional health 6 networks, and the expansion of the current rural 7 health network program with grants, rate 8 enhancements and the authority for 9 incorporation. 10 The enactment of this legislation 11 is vital today for the well-being of our 12 hospitals and our health care systems. This 13 bill builds off the initiatives established in 14 NYPHRM IV by going beyond technical improvements 15 to the hospital reimbursement methodology to 16 institute important structural reforms that will 17 enhance the planning and provision of services 18 while encouraging efficiencies not only by 19 hospitals but by other health care providers, as 20 well. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 7784 1 Senator Tully, there are two items which I 2 believe are connected on this 130-page bill, or 3 whatever it is. On page 125, Section 61, I have 4 a couple of memos here from some property and 5 casualty insurers which is kind of upsetting, in 6 that we seem to be putting another tax on them 7 in this bill. Page 61, Section 911A, temporary 8 franchise tax on certain insurance companies. 9 SENATOR TULLY: I take it, Mr. 10 President, that I'm being asked to yield to a 11 question of some sort? 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 13 SENATOR TULLY: May I have the 14 question? 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: I just wanted 16 you to get to the page. Senator, isn't this a 17 new tax we're imposing here? 18 SENATOR TULLY: No. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. These 20 insurance companies currently pay this tax? 21 SENATOR TULLY: No, they do not. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Well, if they 23 don't pay the tax and it's not a new tax, is it 7785 1 a "Harvey" as coined by Senator Dollinger? 2 SENATOR TULLY: This proposal, 3 Senator, as I'm sure you are aware, would only 4 kick in in the event that the $39 million that 5 is necessary from MMIA was not available. In 6 that particular instance, it would come into 7 play. 8 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay. So, 9 Senator, this letter I have dated January 14, 10 1993, from Tillinghast regarding MMIA's 11 financial condition which went -- I'm sorry, did 12 not go to you, but on June 29, 1993, it went to 13 Senator Marino, Senator Velella, Assemblyman 14 Weprin and Assemblyman Silver, which in fact 15 indicates that if MMIA does not have that money, 16 that tax will then kick in? 17 SENATOR TULLY: I have a copy of 18 the letter that you refer to, Senator Solomon. 19 And if you recall the last time we had this 20 discussion, you again stated that this was a 21 position held by the Governor, and it turned out 22 that he was incorrect. The actual indication of 23 what MMIA has in it, we believe is in excess of 7786 1 that which is indicated by the letter you refer 2 to. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: From MMIA? 4 SENATOR TULLY: Correct. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay. Well, 6 Senator, let's assume that -- let's take both 7 assumptions. Assumption A is you're saying that 8 MMIA has the money. If MMIA has the money, why 9 do we need this clause in the legislation? 10 SENATOR TULLY: Go ahead, 11 Senator. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: If MMIA has the 13 money, why do we need this clause in the 14 legislation? 15 SENATOR TULLY: The theory is 16 that when you have a letter like this, it's an 17 indication that MMIA is not anxious to transfer 18 any money. It's somehow necessary to have a 19 club over their head to force them to transfer 20 the money, which is the reason for the provision 21 with the franchise tax in this legislation. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: But this tax 23 also affects property and casualty insurers. 7787 1 SENATOR TULLY: The past 2 transactions dealing with MMIA have had this 3 type language in them at the insistence of 4 someone you know very well -- the Governor. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: On the bill. 6 This bill basically has a tax on 7 property and casualty insurers which, in effect, 8 we'll be the only state to implement. 9 But what concerns me besides this 10 tax is the fact it deals with premium deposits 11 and where they're deposited. So right now, if 12 we have insurers in this state and they deposit 13 those premiums in New York banks, based upon 14 that fact they are going to not deposit those 15 premiums any more in New York banks which are, 16 in effect, going to have a negative impact on 17 those banks and all the other things they can do 18 when they have those deposits placed within 19 them. 20 I'm very concerned. And 21 obviously, this thing popped up, where we have 22 MMIA, which we keep taking money from which 23 deals with medical malpractice, and we're always 7788 1 concerned about medical malpractice rates, but 2 we're taking the monies from the reserves or the 3 allegedly excess reserves of MMIA and 4 transferring it for another purpose. 5 What also concerns me is we put 6 this alternative tax in here, and the impact of 7 these taxes on business in this state. I 8 thought we're supposed to be looking at things 9 where we don't want to harm the businesses in 10 this state. Now, we're doing a double whammy, 11 not only are we taxing insurance companies but 12 we're encouraging them not to deposit their 13 premium dollars in New York banks and banks 14 located in New York. 15 I think we've got a clause in 16 here in this -- as I said, this 100-and 17 something page bill. I don't even know how many 18 pages it is. It is 131 pages, and out on page 19 125 pops these taxes. 20 It really concerns me where we 21 are doing a piece of legislation such as this 22 where it was proposed by the Governor. NYPHRM 23 does not, in fact, expire until December of 7789 1 1993. We'll probably have to come back and do 2 changes on this based upon what eventually 3 occurs in Congress, after a national health 4 insurance proposal is unveiled and debated in 5 Congress starting in the fall. 6 And we come in here on what we 7 all thought and hoped was the last day of 8 session, which is apparently not the last day of 9 session with a triple whammy, if you might call 10 it that. First we're saying, well, if MMIA has 11 got the money, we're going to take it from them 12 which impacts the reserves as malpractice 13 insurers. And (b) is, if they don't have the 14 money, we're going to take it from other 15 insurance companies. And (c) is, because we're 16 going to take it from the other insurance 17 companies, we're going to take it from premiums 18 and where their premiums are banked, so don't 19 bank those premiums in New York State. 20 I think this is a great attitude 21 if you want to further business in this state, 22 and you've got to remember some of these 23 insurance companies you are talking about in 7790 1 terms of New York City, these are the companies 2 that have thousands upon thousands of employees 3 in New York City. You are not talking about 4 companies with twenty employees, which you want 5 to also protect. You are talking about 6 companies with thousands of employees. You are 7 talking about State Farm, which estimates - 8 State Farm estimates it's an $11 million hit 9 upon them alone. 10 Now, State Farm, the bulk of 11 their business, folks, is not large commercial 12 accounts. It's homeowners and automobile 13 insurance. There's only one way you get that 14 money from homeowners and automobile insurance. 15 You get it by raising premiums. So when you 16 have someone call you up and say, my automobile 17 insurance premium is going up -- and that's a 18 constant problem we're dealing with in the 19 Insurance Committee, that's why we try and give 20 discounts for anti-lock brakes, for safe driving 21 courses, for air bags, automatic seat belts, et 22 cetera. Those rates are going to go up. 23 The same thing with homeowners. 7791 1 Home owners are going to experience rate 2 increases now because of the natural disasters 3 that occurred across the country. We have 4 places such as Long Island, where insurance 5 companies are already pulling out because they 6 realize they have too many policies written in 7 terms of a risk, a potential risk of a storm. 8 To hit a company like State Farm 9 Auto, State Farm Insurance -- it goes directly. 10 They write basically homeowners and automobile 11 policies. There is no place else to get that 12 money except to raise the premiums. 13 So, quote, what we're doing here 14 is taking this money and transferring the 15 money. I don't know who is going to get that 16 money. I just see who it's coming from, and it's 17 a triple whammy that's coming in at the last 18 hour on a bill that does not have to be passed 19 until December 31, '93, a bill which we're going 20 to have to come back and probably do changes if 21 anything occurs on the national scene with 22 national health insurance, and this is just not 23 being good to our constituents. 7792 1 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jones is 3 recognized. 4 SENATOR JONES: Senator Saland, 5 one of the things, of course, that is important 6 to me is funding for Article 30, and I have been 7 told that it's in here, and I was wondering 8 would you identify it for me and also identify 9 the source of the funding? Or Senator Tully, 10 yes. Sorry. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Senator, page 92 12 and 93, starting with line 41 on page 92. 13 SENATOR JONES: Could you just 14 identify -- would you yield for another 15 question? 16 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I will, 17 Senator. The amount is $10 million, if that's 18 the question. 19 SENATOR JONES: Could you 20 identify, then, where the source of that money 21 is coming from. 22 SENATOR TULLY: It is a rate add 23 on, Senator. 7793 1 SENATOR JONES: Excuse me, 2 Senator, I didn't understand your answer. 3 SENATOR TULLY: It is a rate 4 add-on. 5 SENATOR JONES: Okay. Would 6 Senator yield to another question? 7 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 SENATOR JONES: Who is this rate 10 -- to the hospitals? Is the rate added on to 11 the hospitals? 12 SENATOR TULLY: The answer, Mr. 13 President, is to all payors. 14 SENATOR JONES: Okay. Thank you. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 16 President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. Would Senator Tully just yield 21 for a question? 22 SENATOR TULLY: I will, Mr. 23 President. 7794 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 2 question is, I know there is a wage equalization 3 factor that - 4 SENATOR TULLY: WEF. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- has been 6 improved, and you and I know the problems of the 7 NorMet region, which is those counties above New 8 York City, and you are painfully aware, as is 9 most everybody, that Westchester hospitals seem 10 to be in the worst shape of any hospitals in the 11 state, and it's basically because of the wage 12 equalization factor. 13 My hospitals are telling me that 14 there is not enough built in, that the 15 improvement is insufficient to bring our 16 hospitals up out of the red. 17 Could you comment on that please, 18 Senator? 19 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 20 President. That, first of all, is contained on 21 page 49, line 34, and I can tell you that when 22 the Governor spoke to me with reference to this 23 legislation, he indicated that he had two major 7795 1 concerns, and only two, and one was in the area 2 of cost containment, which we have addressed; 3 and the other one was in the area of NorMet. 4 And we can point out that the total amount 5 that's involved with respect to NorMet and the 6 WEF factor is $20 million, and that will be out 7 of the labor component. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 9 Senator. I hope we can increase that. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Senator, 12 I originally just wanted to make a statement, 13 but on that rate add-on, is that an amount of 14 money that's paid by the patient who is entering 15 the hospital? 16 SENATOR TULLY: (Nodding. ) 17 SENATOR GALIBER: And is that 18 fund then paid into a larger fund? 19 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 20 President. The answer to your question, 21 Senator, is that the money is pooled and then is 22 put forward through grants in aid. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: When it is 7796 1 distributed, where does it go, after it goes 2 into the pool and then is distributed out? 3 SENATOR TULLY: It goes to the 4 existing EMS programs throughout the state. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: On the bill, 6 Mr. President. 7 Senator Tully, this is a 8 statement and also perhaps a question. First 9 off, any bill that's put together with this 10 amount of pages to it alone, just raw weight, as 11 we used to measure out "A" papers in college - 12 if it was heavy you got an "A" and what not - 13 deserves a lot of credit, and I want to take 14 this opportunity to congratulate you and your 15 staff for a job in a very difficult area, which 16 is well done in my judgment. 17 But, Senator Tully, this is a 18 bill, obviously, of considerable magnitude and 19 certainly has an impact on all the people in the 20 state of New York. There are a number of 21 committees and councils and advisory councils. 22 For example, I'm told that on page 15 of the 23 bill, you create regional nominating committees 7797 1 or committee, and then on page 32 a regulatory 2 review council, and on page 115 an ambulatory 3 reimbursement demonstration advisory council. 4 They all have legislative 5 appointments but do not include the Minority 6 Leaders of both houses. I want to ask perhaps 7 if this is an oversight; and if it is, is it 8 fair for me to say, and to my colleagues, that 9 when this proposed piece of legislation is 10 signed by the Governor, will that language 11 contain or include Minority party representation 12 on those various councils? 13 SENATOR TULLY: That's an 14 excellent question, Senator, and the answer to 15 it is yes. We will be delighted to do a chapter 16 to add that feature before it's signed by the 17 Governor. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Larkin. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Tully 20 yield for a question, sir? 21 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Mike, in this 7798 1 bill here, we've been talking about two items, 2 the WEF and the labor cost adjustment. Can you 3 tell me what is the difference as far as we're 4 concerned in the Hudson Valley and Orange 5 County? 6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 7 The answer to the question is that the labor 8 component is a generic component whereas the WEF 9 component is specified as specific with respect 10 to the NorMet region. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Would we - 12 SENATOR TULLY: I think probably 13 what Senator Larkin has in mind is, "What about 14 the money?" I think it was a question that was 15 previously asked by Senator Oppenheimer and 16 addressed, and I guess because the interests of 17 the Senators in this chamber and the legislators 18 in the other house who represent that particular 19 region, and that of the Governor, coincide, this 20 particular region, because of an injustice 21 that's happened over the years with respect to 22 labor, will be receiving money from both ends of 23 it, from the labor end of it and from the WEF 7799 1 end of it to correct the existing injustice. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mendez. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 4 Senator Tully, I do not have any questions to 5 you. I just wanted to urge all my colleagues to 6 vote for this bill. 7 Oftentimes, I have stood on the 8 floor of the chamber to criticize very strongly 9 the reality that the working poor in the city of 10 New York and in the other big cities will not be 11 having access to primary health care. This very 12 comprehensive bill will precisely do that. 13 In fact, even it goes -- it goes 14 even further by making it possible for students 15 to get into schools of medicine, and doctors to 16 be able to establish practices in underserved 17 areas. I have two sections in my district that 18 definitely are classic -- three parts in my 19 district that can be classified as under 20 served. 21 And I'm very grateful and 22 thankful to Senator Tully and all the people who 23 worked on this bill that in fact will do -- will 7800 1 provide primary health care delivery to all the 2 residents of the city of New York and of the 3 state of New York. 4 I urge everybody to vote aye. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 7 President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President, one other comment. Will Senator 12 Tully yield just to one quick question? 13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, as 16 you know, we in Monroe County have a highly 17 prized health care system in which the hospitals 18 have been a major contributor and a major 19 participant in cost control containment, 20 certificate of need, and other myriad of devices 21 to try to control health care costs. 22 My question is really a general 23 one. I've heard a number of explanations from 7801 1 people in the Rochester community. I'd just be 2 interested in the sponsor's view of what impact 3 this proposal, the bill that we're about to vote 4 on, would have on the Rochester health care 5 experiment and its success. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 7 President. This bill, this comprehensive piece 8 of legislation, will promote the development of 9 existing initiatives in that area, and we 10 compliment those who brought them about. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is my 12 understanding, Mr. President, this bill does 13 move down the road to taking some of the things 14 that have been very successfully implemented in 15 Rochester and Monroe County and exporting them 16 to other parts of the state, and I commend the 17 sponsor for moving in that direction. 18 It's one that the Rochester 19 community and the business community and its 20 health care community, all facets, from its 21 physicians and its hospitals down to the lowest 22 health care worker really worked hard to try to 23 contain costs and provide high quality service. 7802 1 If this moves us down the road -- and I know 2 there are negotiations with the other house on 3 this bill. If we can move down that road to 4 export from Rochester and Monroe County what has 5 been extremely beneficial and extremely high 6 quality at reasonable cost and get it to the 7 rest of the state, my hope is that this bill is 8 a step in that direction, and colleagues would 9 join me in voting for it. 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Onorato. 12 SENATOR ONORATO: Will the 13 sponsor yield to a question? 14 Senator Tully, I'm just a little 15 confused on the $39 million that's supposedly in 16 the MMIA pot, so to speak. If that money is not 17 actually in there -- you are claiming that it is 18 there; they are claiming that it isn't -- there 19 is a potential possibility that we'll be getting 20 an increase in our medical health plans, we will 21 get a premium increase in our homeowners policy, 22 and an increase in our automobile policy. Is 23 that a fact? And if it is, how much are we 7803 1 talking about of an increase in those three 2 policies? 3 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, to 4 try and put that to rest once and for all, 5 Senator Solomon asked it before. I thought I 6 had answered it. 7 The nature of the game is that in 8 the event MMIA says that they do not have the 9 money, the state will then give them an IOU, and 10 they will transfer the money to them so they can 11 transfer it back. The purpose of the provision 12 with respect to the franchise tax, again, is a 13 club to force them to bring the money over when 14 they say they do not have it, because it's 15 happened in the past, and this is a procedure 16 that was developed by the Governor. 17 SENATOR ONORATO: In other words, 18 there's -- nothing in this bill states that the 19 other three policies that I referred to will 20 have to be raised, premiums? 21 SENATOR TULLY: That is right. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Thank you. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Espada. 7804 1 SENATOR ESPADA: Sponsor yield 2 for a question, please? 3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 SENATOR ESPADA: We had a number 6 of pilot programs, demonstration programs 7 throughout the state that sought to provide 8 affordable health care insurance to the working 9 poor who would otherwise be uninsured. Does 10 your bill make provision for those demonstration 11 programs to continue? And if not, why not? 12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes. The answer 13 to that is yes, Mr. President. They will be 14 continued. 15 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold, did 17 you want recognition? 18 SENATOR GOLD: No. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator Tully, 21 I'm hesitating how to put this, because built 22 into the connotation that it's a one-house bill 23 there are other connotations, and certainly it's 7805 1 not mine. But is this a final bill? Are both 2 houses on board with this, or is this still kind 3 of a "kind-of kind-of"? 4 SENATOR TULLY: That's a very 5 fair question, Senator Galiber. I believe this 6 bill could have been negotiated and completed 7 months ago, but for whatever reason, the 8 difficulty was with the second floor. 9 I believe we're in consistency 10 with the Assembly as far as the bill goes. But 11 right now, up until yesterday, the thrust was - 12 was that there was no money to do this bill; 13 there was no money to do an environmental plan 14 ning bill; there was no money to do stadiums; 15 and suddenly, Senator Galiber -- suddenly, 16 somehow, money has appeared. 17 And we're now being told that 18 perhaps we can resolve this problem and the 19 other two as well. Although I fail to see and 20 do not see any connection between them 21 whatsoever. I think the some time has come for 22 action. It should have been done a long, long 23 time ago. 7806 1 Because now you are giving me the 2 opportunity to explain that the hospitals in 3 this state are in dire shape. They are in 4 terrible shape. They lost over a billion 5 dollars based on a study done by the Council on 6 Health Care Financing, and they are facing a 7 tremendous shot and a cutback from the federal 8 government of $300 million to $350 million in 9 the coming year. 10 On top of that, they face a cut 11 in the next four years of somewhere in the area 12 of $3-1/2 billion. That type of situation could 13 be catastrophic to the hospitals in this state, 14 and the whole concept of the planning that's 15 being done by the federal government which may 16 be advanced some time this year, but will 17 probably never see light of day as law until 18 perhaps 1995, because it's not going to get done 19 this year and next year is an election year, and 20 it's not going to get done then. So it will 21 probably be done in '95. 22 We have to have something in 23 place so that this state, the Excelsior State, 7807 1 is out front in the area of health planning, as 2 it is now. That's the purpose of this bill. It 3 should have been done a long time ago. 4 But if you are asking, will this 5 bill become the law - 6 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. 7 SENATOR TULLY: -- in the next 24 8 hours or not, I sure as heck hope so, Senator, 9 but only the person on the second floor knows 10 that at the moment. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, one I was 12 asking that question because I congratulate you 13 and your staff. Obviously it's a bit early, and 14 I hope that we're not here to congratulate when 15 it passes. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Senator, on that 17 note, I'm remiss in that I didn't thank you and 18 Senator Dollinger for your kind comments because 19 I can tell you this. The staff has worked on 20 this bill for over a year and a half, and it 21 wasn't just this staff. It was the staff of 22 Senator Cook, and Senator Cook, and Senator 23 Holland and his staff. And they've worked, 7808 1 dedicated, towards the passage of this bill, as 2 have the members of the other house. 3 It is something whose day has 4 come, and it should be done, and if there's any 5 way that any other members in this house have an 6 opportunity to talk to the gentleman on the 7 second floor or the President, the Lieutenant 8 Governor, in his infinite wisdom if he has an 9 opportunity, now is the time to tell him. This 10 is one that should get done, and we should get 11 this done before we get out of here. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: And just one 13 other point, that I have a memo, and I'm sure 14 you have. It's from District Council 37, and 15 they list -- I won't go through it because you 16 have it and probably your staff has it on their 17 fingertips -- a number of concerns of theirs. 18 Have those concerns been answered, or are they 19 still being taken care of, or will they be taken 20 care of? 21 SENATOR TULLY: All of the 22 concerns that they have expressed will not be 23 done because it would cost too much, but a 7809 1 number of the labor enhancements that DC 37 2 wants are incorporated in the bill and will be 3 taken care of. And as I indicated previously, 4 this bill was worked out with a number of people 5 not the least of which was the Council on Health 6 Care Financing on which sits a member, in 7 effect, the president of DC 37. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, Mr. 13 President. Will Senator Tully yield, please? 14 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, can 17 you tell me if there are any quality assurance 18 provisions in this bill; and if so, what page 19 they are on? 20 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, there are 21 quite a few. Just a moment, Senator. 22 It is included through the 23 planning and the networking as far as they 7810 1 incorporate quality assurance in them. The 2 actual specifics of the quality program that we 3 put forward was taken off the table by the 4 Assembly. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: So there is no 6 changes in quality assurance included in this 7 bill? 8 SENATOR TULLY: Not with respect 9 to specifics, but with the overall umbrella of 10 the things I mentioned before. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: What pages of 12 the bill are they on, Senator? 13 SENATOR TULLY: Probably give you 14 a lot of pages. Do you want to take the time to 15 go through each one? 16 In everything that's associated 17 with planning is quality improvement to begin 18 with, and planning is throughout the bill. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: So the 20 governing boards now have to be involved with 21 additional quality improvement methodology. 22 SENATOR TULLY: And also with 23 networking. As you know, Senator, I'm sure you 7811 1 know that hospitals like North Shore, University 2 on Long Island, New York Hospital in New York 3 City, are networking with eight and ten other 4 hospitals in the area of quality improvement, 5 and they are doing a fine job. That is 6 continued under this bill with the planning 7 programs and the initiatives we have in here for 8 networking. 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 10 if Senator Tully will yield again? Senator, are 11 there any penalties for directors or for boards 12 of trustees, I guess, in the case of 13 not-for-profit institutions, if they don't 14 properly carry out quality assurance programs? I 15 should say "quality improvement" program's? 16 SENATOR TULLY: No, there are 17 not, other than existing law, Senator. Nothing 18 new. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: So in this 20 legislation there's no penalties, but there are 21 some directions that they are supposed to take 22 in terms of quality improvement or continuous 23 quality improvement programs? 7812 1 SENATOR TULLY: That's correct, 2 under the overall umbrella in the regulations of 3 the Department of Health. 4 SENATOR SOLOMON: And, Senator, 5 if they don't take that course of conduct or 6 embark upon that course of conduct, there are no 7 penalties included in this or just Department of 8 Health regulations in terms of certification? 9 SENATOR TULLY: There currently 10 are provisions under state law for misconduct, 11 as I know you're sure of, Senator. And it 12 wasn't the intention of this bill to provide for 13 penal sanctions but to provide for a cooperative 14 effort and a networking so that the people of 15 this state could be well served in health care 16 and health care reform. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if 18 you'll continue to yield. Dr. Chassin had 19 mentioned, when he introduced the Governor's 20 version of this, I guess where they were going 21 to take a look at the outcome results of 22 procedures. Is any of that included in the 23 bill? 7813 1 SENATOR TULLY: The concepts 2 advanced by Dr. Chassin I have publicly 3 indicated are similar to the ones that I 4 espoused myself. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Excuse me. Mr. 6 President, can we have some order, please? 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon's 8 point is well taken. 9 (Whereupon, the President gaveled 10 for order. ) 11 Thank you. 12 Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: To answer your 14 question specifically, Senator Solomon, I'm 15 grateful to hear that that's something that you 16 support, and I know you have done it as a member 17 of the Health Committee, as well. 18 The difficulty we've had in 19 quality initiatives specifically, as opposed to 20 the networking and as opposed to planning, is 21 that the other house did not choose to include 22 them, and in all the discussions that we had 23 they were off the table. So they were not 7814 1 included for that reason. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, I'm 3 sorry to continue questions like this, but if 4 this had come up in committee, it would have 5 been easier. But the bill came out on July 1. 6 I don't have that large a staff so I'm sort of 7 winging this. 8 Are there any provisions for 9 practice parameters? Because we always talk 10 about malpractice, and I know some states such 11 as the state of Florida have embarked upon 12 that. Do we have any provisions such as that in 13 this bill? 14 SENATOR TULLY: Practice 15 parameters as advanced by the Commissioner Dr. 16 Mark Chassin were included in my original bill. 17 They came out because there couldn't be three 18 way agreement on them, not the second floor, but 19 the Assembly again because they didn't want to 20 agree to them. I think they are important. I 21 think they should be there. You and I have 22 discussed them. We've discussed the impact they 23 might have on the extreme costs of malpractice 7815 1 insurance in this state. I think they could be 2 very advantageous. Maybe you can convince the 3 other side, those in the other house to agree to 4 them, and we could have this amended and have it 5 effectuated. 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 8 section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 70. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cook. 14 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, in 15 voting on this bill, I simply want to thank 16 Senator Tully and his staff for their 17 cooperation in developing the rural health 18 aspects of this program. They have been 19 extremely open to all kinds of suggestions and I 20 really -- I can't tell you of a better working 21 relationship that I have seen around here than 22 the relationship that we've had with them. 23 I'm very proud to vote yes. 7816 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 2 to explain my vote. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon 4 is recognized to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Mr. 6 President, under normal circumstances, I would 7 probably vote for this legislation; however, due 8 to the fact that it came out on July 1, 1993 and 9 is a 131-page bill, which I would like to have 10 examined a lot of the impact of this; and in 11 addition, due to the fact that we'll probably 12 have to come back within a year or so to change 13 some of the clauses in this as a result of some 14 national health insurance reform, I'm going to 15 vote no on this bill. 16 Thank you. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully. 18 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, to 19 explain my vote. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully is 21 recognized to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR TULLY: I would like to 23 point out to the members that this bill came out 7817 1 in early June, which was quite a while ago, this 2 being July 6, and the final bill came out on 3 July 1 which gave five days for members to look 4 at a bill, which I think is a lot more time than 5 we traditionally get. 6 But, in any event, this is 7 landmark legislation in that it comprises the 8 best in providing the necessary funding for our 9 institutions that need them as well as providing 10 primary care initiatives and prevention, which 11 are very significant in helping those who need 12 it the most, and also providing for great cost 13 savings to the state and implementing it by 14 virtue of the totality of the planning that's 15 included within the bill. 16 I believe it's attribute to what 17 can be done by people working together, by the 18 fine staff that we're possessed of in the 19 Legislature, by the cooperative effort of 20 members of this chamber, and by the fine efforts 21 of people in the other house, as well. 22 I hope it's recognized by the 23 Governor and that we soon have this piece of law 7818 1 in effect. 2 And I vote aye. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1501 are 6 Senators Daly, Solomon and Velella. Ayes 50, 7 nays 3. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1385. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 13 may we take up Calendar Number 1452. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 27, 15 Calendar Number 1452, by the Senate Committee on 16 Rules, Senate Bill Number 6046, an act to amend 17 the Tax Law, the General City Law and the 18 Administrative Code of the city of New York. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7819 1 (The secretary called the roll. ) 2 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order, 3 Mr. President. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 5 SENATOR GOLD: I don't think 6 visitors in the gallery ought to be voting 7 (indicating a Senator in the gallery. ) 8 (Laughter. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1452 are 11 Senators Cook, Dollinger, Holland, Johnson, 12 Larkin, LaValle, Levy, Marino, Oppenheimer, 13 Pataki, Saland, Sheffer, Skelos, Spano, 14 Stachowski, Trunzo, Tully, Velella, also Senator 15 Lack, also Senator Hannon, also Senator Sears. 16 Ayes 32, nays 21. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 21 Calendar 528. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 8, 23 Calendar Number 528, by member of the Assembly 7820 1 Seminario, Assembly Bill 3952B, Labor Law in 2 relation to drug testing of police officers. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Wait. Senator 10 Jones. 11 SENATOR JONES: Will the sponsor 12 yield to a question, please? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack, 14 request is made for you to yield to a question 15 with respect to Calendar Number 528. 16 SENATOR LACK: Why don't we lay 17 it aside temporarily. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1385. Senator Tully moves to discharge the 22 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 23 8609A and substitute it for the identical Third 7821 1 Reading 1385. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 4 ordered. Explanation is requested. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 7 message of necessity? 8 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 9 message at the desk. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 11 accept the message. 12 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion. 13 All those in favor say aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The ayes have it. The motion is 18 adopted. 19 Senator Tully. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 21 President. Can you advise me as to who asked 22 for the explanation? 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon, 7822 1 I believe. 2 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. This bill amends the Insurance Law 4 in relation to the prohibition of discrimination 5 against particular diseases in the provision of 6 benefits. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Tully 8 yield please? 9 SENATOR TULLY: I will, Mr. 10 President. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Tully, 12 this bill prevents New York State licensed 13 insurance companies from being third party 14 administrators in cases where there are limits 15 by the employer who is self-insured. Correct? 16 SENATOR TULLY: That's correct. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, Senator 18 Tully, let me ask you another question. If an 19 employer who is exempt from ERISA decides that 20 he still wants to offer this coverage which 21 limits certain benefits, he can go get a company 22 that's not licensed in New York to be a third 23 party administrator. 7823 1 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, he can, Mr. 2 President. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: I see. So the 4 only thing this will do is hurt the insurance 5 companies in New York, prevent them from being 6 third party administrators on these plans. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 8 That's not so, and plus that is a subjective 9 statement on the part of Senator Solomon. I 10 think he fully knows what this bill will do. 11 This bill is intended to aid 12 those who are most in need. You have situations 13 of people who are insured currently and then 14 become the victims of a catastrophic disease, 15 something like AIDS, something like Alzheimer's 16 Disease, something like cancer and then they are 17 told by some insurance companies -- these people 18 that I think certain people would have you 19 believe are on the great white horse -- are told 20 they are no longer covered, and they drop them, 21 and there are lawsuits. And in the lawsuits, 22 they prevail because most people don't read the 23 fine print of contracts. This bill is intended 7824 1 to stop that practice and to help those who are 2 most in need. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 4 will Senator Tully yield? 5 (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in 6 the chair. ) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Tully, will you yield? 9 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I will 10 yield, Mr. President. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, the 12 lawsuit we're talking about dealt with AIDS at 13 the H & H Music Company in Texas, where they had 14 a million dollars coverage. When they found out 15 someone had AIDS, they changed it to $5,000. 16 Were they a self-insured company, Senator? 17 SENATOR TULLY: I don't know the 18 answer to that, Mr. President. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, they 20 were self-insured according to the New Yorkers 21 for Accessible Health Coverage memo supporting 22 your bill. Senator, they were self-insured 23 pursuant to ERISA; correct? 7825 1 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, they were. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Will this bill 3 affect any company that is self-insured pursuant 4 to ERISA? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Tully. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 8 President. This does not affect the plan. It 9 affects the administrators of the company 10 providing the stop loss, and you can still have 11 an overall call cap on total benefits and under 12 this law, that doesn't mean you discriminate. 13 While I'm speaking, I did notice 14 that the bill indicated that there were 15 opposition memos, Mr. President, from The 16 Business Council and from General Motors. I can 17 state for the record that both oppositions have 18 been lifted, and The Business Council and 19 General Motors no longer oppose this bill. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator Tully. 21 Mr. President, if the Senator will yield again. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: If 23 you'll yield again. 7826 1 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: The point of 4 the matter is if -- let's take a hypothetical 5 situation. We have a company in New York that 6 is exempt from New York State insurance law 7 because it is exempted by ERISA, and it is 8 self-insured. And if they had Metropolitan Life, 9 for instance, as a third party administrator, 10 under this law they could no longer have 11 Metropolitan Life if they had that cap on 12 coverage that we're talking about. 13 SENATOR TULLY: If they violate 14 the provisions of this law, Mr. President, and 15 if they discriminate because of a particular 16 disease, they could not and should not and will 17 not. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Have a New York 19 company as administrator. 20 However, they could still hire 21 Golden Rule, for instance, which is not licensed 22 in New York as a third party administrator. 23 SENATOR TULLY: If, Mr. 7827 1 President, we were able to dictate what would 2 happen with respect to companies in other 3 states, we'd have a lot easier job as 4 legislators. Senator Solomon knows that's not 5 something we can do. If he chooses to do 6 something about that, there is always the 7 opportunity to run for Congress, become a member 8 of the federal legislature and do something 9 there. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. On 11 the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 13 bill. Senator Solomon. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: This is 15 laudable what the bill attempts to do. However, 16 we have to remember several things. I have said 17 time and time again, the number of companies 18 that self-insure is increasing as we have 19 mandates, and we put these mandates on and they 20 decide to avoid the mandates. They can 21 self-insure, and they're exempt by ERISA. 22 All this does is take a company 23 which is currently exempt from ERISA and using a 7828 1 New York State licensed insurance company to 2 administer its plan, do the bureaucratic 3 paperwork, handle the paperwork and says that 4 New York company cannot do that any more. 5 However, it can still go out and hire a third 6 party administrator, a TPA from elsewhere in the 7 state. 8 I should add -- I don't know. I 9 know the independent agents are opposed to this 10 bill because they feel it will also impact their 11 business. 12 But getting back to that, the 13 only thing it does is cause some more loss of 14 business for some New York insurance companies. 15 It is not to go anywhere in terms of resolving 16 the problem. You will have TPAs from outside of 17 New York coming in to do this work. 18 This unfortunately is a case, by 19 the way, and Senator Tully didn't mention it, 20 which the insurance companies opposed and 21 submitted briefs in opposition to the case in 22 Texas as it wound its way into the Supreme 23 Court. 7829 1 This was a case that a lot of 2 people were opposed to. Because the fact of the 3 matter is, this one company in Texas when they 4 found out an employee had AIDS, they changed 5 their insurance coverage. They changed the 6 coverage that they had because they were 7 self-insured. In effect, the policy said that 8 they could decide whatever they wanted to cover. 9 They said, "Well, we'll put a cap. From a 10 million we're going to change it to $5,000." 11 It went to the U. S. Supreme 12 Court. Under ERISA which is the 8,000-pound 13 gorilla in terms of state regulation of 14 insurance -- under ERISA, the Supreme Court said 15 you can do it. 16 This is not going to solve that 17 problem. ERISA has to be changed to solve that 18 problem. And, Senator Tully, maybe we should 19 both go to Congress so we can change ERISA and 20 resolve these problems because you cannot 21 properly resolve them in the state Legislature, 22 and that's where the problem lies. Taking 23 business away from companies that are licensed 7830 1 in New York, having people become unemployed 2 because of bills such as this does not help 3 resolve the problem. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Halperin. 6 SENATOR HALPERIN: Senator Tully, 7 I'm going to ask you to yield to a question, and 8 I think you've pretty much answered it, but I 9 just wanted to make it absolutely clear in my 10 own mind. 11 First of all, I was a sponsor of 12 legislation which permitted New York State 13 insurers to administer self-insured plans. And 14 until, I don't know, maybe six or seven years 15 ago, perhaps a little bit longer, it was not 16 legal for New York State insurance companies to 17 administer such plans at all. And the reason 18 that I introduced the bill was very simply for 19 what Senator Solomon is alluding to, that 20 business that might otherwise be held by New 21 York State employeres and companies that pay 22 taxes here and that add to the economy was 23 simply flowing elsewhere. It didn't stop 7831 1 self-insureds. It didn't prevent them from 2 doing whatever they were doing. All that it did 3 was to punish companies for being licensed in 4 New York State. Because if they were licensed 5 somewhere else, then they would be able to 6 administer these plans so long as they were not 7 operating as insurance companies in New York 8 State. And as a matter of fact, there were 9 companies that were not insurance companies that 10 were simply in the business of administering 11 self-insurance plans that were not from New 12 York. 13 So my question to you: Since 14 your memo says that the purpose of this bill is 15 to "prohibit discrimination against particular 16 diseases in the provision of health insurance 17 benefits," how do you see that intended purpose 18 being carried out by this bill? Do you believe 19 that there are not sufficient numbers of 20 administrators who are not licensed insurers in 21 this state who -- so that these self-insureds 22 will not be able to find anyone to administer 23 it? Is that what you are suggesting? 7832 1 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Tully. 4 SENATOR TULLY: It's not a 5 question of my belief. I think what you have 6 here is something that we are coming more and 7 more to grips with in this state, Senator 8 Halperin, and that is the issue of adequate 9 provision of health care versus insurance 10 coverage and insurance benefits. 11 And I commend you for the bill 12 which you did initiate, which I think may be 13 only one company in this state has taken 14 advantage of. And as I understand it, there are 15 currently negotiations going on in the Insurance 16 Department with respect to the whole concept of 17 self-insurance so that New York State can again 18 be ahead in the field, as they are not compared 19 to some other states. 20 But whether or not there are 21 administrators from other states who would come 22 in and gather up this business or not, I don't 23 pretend to know or do I pretend to say that 7833 1 that's the reason to pass this bill. What I do 2 say is that there are people out here who are 3 suffering catastrophic illnesses who are not 4 being provided for by companies today in this 5 state, many of whom, incidentally, while they 6 are located in New York State, are companies who 7 are founded in another state. So you have a 8 complete difference here about how many of these 9 administrators, while they might be from 10 Pennsylvania and operating in New York State, 11 might also be based in New York State. There is 12 a difference, in effect, and I don't pretend to 13 know the answers to that. 14 All I'm saying is that this bill 15 is here to prevent that problem of 16 discrimination which is actually being evidenced 17 by insurance companies in this state. 18 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. 19 President. Would Senator Tully yield to another 20 question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I am 22 confident that he will. 23 Senator Tully. 7834 1 SENATOR TULLY: My turn in the 2 boat, Senator. Why not? 3 SENATOR HALPERIN: I listened 4 very carefully to your explanation, and I still 5 don't think you're answering my question. Let's 6 -- let's - 7 SENATOR TULLY: The answer to 8 your question, Senator, is I don't know the 9 answer to your question - 10 SENATOR HALPERIN: No, no, 11 no-no-no-no. Senator Tully. 12 SENATOR TULLY: -- as far as how 13 many administrators would do it. 14 SENATOR HALPERIN: Senator Tully, 15 would you please permit me. I think you 16 answered a question other than one which I 17 asked. 18 SENATOR TULLY: Would you restate 19 the question. 20 SENATOR HALPERIN: Yes, that's 21 what I'm attempting to do. 22 SENATOR TULLY: Okay. 23 SENATOR HALPERIN: -- Senator. 7835 1 Through the president, if he pays attention to 2 me. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 4 SENATOR HALPERIN: My question 5 was if there is a self-insurance plan which is 6 operating under ERISA, so that we in New York 7 State -- and, by the way, I have fought as a 8 member of the National Conference of Insurance 9 Legislators, its former president, and the 10 chairman of the federal/state relations 11 committee to get back the right of states to 12 regulate these self-insurance plans that ERISA 13 has pushed us out of, because I'm very concerned 14 about the types of abuses that I see occurring 15 without proper state regulations. 16 So I'm in accord with your 17 general sentiments and your desire to bring this 18 under some kind of state control. 19 My question to you is, if there 20 is a self-insured plan under ERISA so that we in 21 New York State cannot control what they do, what 22 difference does it make whether that plan is 23 being administered by a New York State licensed 7836 1 insurance company, by a licensed insurance 2 company from another state that's not licensed 3 in New York State so that it would not be 4 covered by the provisions of this bill, or by a 5 company other than an insurance company which 6 was in the business of administering 7 self-insurance plans? 8 How are we providing any iota of 9 additional protection to New York State 10 residents by restricting the self-insurance plan 11 to be administered by one or another company? 12 How is that affected in any way whatsoever? 13 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you for the 14 terseness of your question, Senator Halperin, 15 through the Chair. 16 I think the bill is clear and 17 perhaps you have some difficulty with it, 18 Senator Halperin, but I think the bill 19 specifically applies to those who are licensed 20 in New York State. 21 I can't talk about what would 22 happen with those in other states or whether - 23 again, when I answered your question -- whether 7837 1 they would come into play. Now, there may be a 2 failure to communicate here, but I think I've 3 answered the question twice. The first time you 4 didn't like the answer, and you may not like it 5 the second time, but I'm not going to yield to 6 explain it a third time. 7 SENATOR HALPERIN: Mr. 8 President. Senator Tully, don't worry. I've 9 given up. I wouldn't ask you a third time. And 10 I think -- the reason I won't ask you a third 11 time is because I don't think that there is an 12 answer that -- that it's going to be acceptable 13 to me. 14 So let me just, on the bill, Mr. 15 President, explain why I'm going to vote against 16 this bill. 17 Before I passed and this house 18 voted for and the other house voted for and the 19 Governor signed the legislation which permitted 20 New York State insurance companies to come in 21 and administer these plans, these plans were up 22 and running and being administered by companies 23 from other states or by entities other than 7838 1 insurance companies that might or might not be 2 domiciled in this state. There were no fewer 3 plans. The plans could find administrators. 4 This bill is attacking a 5 strawman. The fact that a state insurance 6 company is administering a plan that is exempt 7 from state law is irrelevant and relates to the 8 practices of that company. And, therefore, I see 9 us gaining absolutely no advantage in the area 10 in which you are indicating you would like to 11 see some action taken. 12 The only way to do that is to 13 change the federal law so that ERISA is no 14 longer exempt from state regulations so that we 15 can keep them under control. Because I can tell 16 you that I evaluated the degree of regulation by 17 the federal government over ERISA-exempt plans, 18 and I can tell you that it's abysmal. 19 Right now, Senator Nunn is 20 holding hearings and being critical of our state 21 Insurance Department for its failure to 22 adequately supervise Blue Cross and Blue Shield, 23 and I can assure you that the federal government 7839 1 does a much less detailed job and is -- fails in 2 every way to even approximate that degree of 3 regulation. 4 So whether the plan is 5 administered by a New York licensed company or 6 not, the problem will continue to exist. The 7 only thing this bill does is hurt business in 8 New York State, and I'm surprised that you would 9 sponsor such a bill, when I hear from the other 10 side of the aisle so often about how we wish to 11 encourage businesses in New York State. 12 If you can answer my question and 13 show me how we'd be discouraging these plans 14 from operating in a way in which we do not 15 approve, I will vote for this bill, but I do not 16 believe -- in fact, I know this bill will not 17 help to improve that problem. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Tully. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, on 21 the bill. As I indicated previously, the 22 question of the opposition of The Business 23 Council came up. I indicated that that was 7840 1 removed. I failed to indicate, however, that 2 this bill is supported by a few small groups 3 that some of the members might know, the New 4 Yorkers for Accessible Health Coverage, the Long 5 Island Association for AIDS Care, the National 6 Alliance of Breast Cancer Organizations, the 7 American Association of Retired Persons, the 8 Arts Coalition, strange Group of Independent 9 Democrats, the New York State Association of 10 Nurses and the Statewide Senior Action Council. 11 I think it's a bill we should support and I urge 12 all of my colleagues to vote for it. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect July 15. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 1385 are 22 Senators Daly, Halperin, Kuhl, Larkin, Pataki, 23 Saland, Solomon, Velella, Wright, also Senator 7841 1 Bruno. Ayes 43, nays -- also Senator Johnson in 2 the negative. Ayes 41, nays 12. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 4 bill is passed. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1391, 9 please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1391, 11 the Secretary will read it. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, just 16 before you read that Calendar, would you please 17 report me in the negative on Calendar 1581, if I 18 may have unanimous consent for that purpose. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1581, 20 Senator Leichter is in the negative, without 21 objection. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: 1391. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7842 1 Secretary will read the bill, Senator Present 2 asked for. 1391, I think it was. That's on page 3 25. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 25, 5 Calendar Number 1391, by Senator Lack, Senate 6 Bill Number 5886C, Workers' Compensation Law. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Will the 11 distinguished gentleman from Long Island explain 12 the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Yes, I will. 16 Mr. President. As you can see by 17 the Calendar Number, it ends in 'C'. This is a 18 bill that has now been amended four times, yet 19 it's presented to this house at this late date 20 as a non-agreed-upon bill with the Assembly. 21 And the second unusual aspect of 22 this bill, as you can see right after the names 23 of the sponsors, it says, "at the request of the 7843 1 Governor," and this is indeed a Governor's 2 program bill, a program bill which would bring 3 managed care to Workers' Compensation. 4 The current premium base for 5 Workers' Compensation premiums in the state of 6 New York before July 1st this year is $4.2 7 billion with an approximate 19 percent increase 8 recommended by the Workers' Compensation Rating 9 Board, not a government agency, to the New York 10 State Department of Insurance. That base which 11 is outside of whatever self-insureds pay for the 12 cost of Workers' compensation will increase to 13 $5 billion next year. 14 The one and only question you 15 really have to ask: Is there $5 billion worth of 16 compensation going to workers in the state of 17 New York and the very obvious answer to any of 18 that is, "No." And if not, where is it going? 19 I won't get into a long 20 explanation except to tell you that this bill is 21 an attempt, so far mainly between the Governor 22 and the Senate, to bring some reform into the 23 manner by which compensation services are 7844 1 provided in New York. 2 Everyone knows that over 75 years 3 ago when Workers' Compensation was set up, it 4 was set up to act in a non-advice/adversarial 5 situation so that an injured worker could be 6 healed and returned to work as soon as 7 possible. 8 Unfortunately, the system has 9 devolved, after over 2,000 amendments to the 10 Workers' Compensation Law, to a system where 11 there are thousands of people who feed and live 12 and eat off the system itself, and the 13 individual injured worker is merely a catalyst 14 to that situation. 15 This bill is an honest attempt 16 replicating that of some 20 states in this Union 17 to bring and to recognize the fact that managed 18 care as far as the delivery of health services 19 should be part of the Workers' Compensation 20 system as well. 21 And in fact, it's supported by 22 the National Federation of Independent Business, 23 The Business Council, the Farm Bureau, the 7845 1 General Building Contractors, and everybody in 2 the city of Rochester, who has lived under its 3 own form of managed care for a number of years. 4 There are no -- and I repeat no 5 -- labor memoranda in opposition to the "C" 6 print of this bill. There is only a letter 7 FAXed to me within the past hour signed by the 8 president of the New York State AFL-CIO. I 9 repeat a letter "Dear Senator Lack," in which he 10 brings to my attention President Clinton's 11 latest remarks on the subject, made to the 12 National Federation of Independent Business on 13 June 29, in which President Clinton once again 14 repeats what Ira Magaziner has said to a bunch 15 of legislators, myself included, in Washington 16 in May, that it is the federal government's de 17 sire to take over the medical portion of Work 18 ers' Compensation which, by the way, would leave 19 the states -- leave the states with replacement 20 wage/disability, the bag, as it were, to still 21 pay for that portion of Workers' Comp. And all 22 50 states, particularly to the National 23 Conference of State Legislatures, are opposed to 7846 1 that. 2 Within the past half hour, I have 3 spoken to the Governor and informed him of Mr. 4 Cleary's letter, and the Governor said that I 5 certainly could advise the Senate, and I would 6 think through the Senate and the Assembly as 7 well, that we in New York can't wait even if 8 President Clinton wanted to go ahead; and even 9 if the President had the opposition of all 50 10 states, it would be almost seven years until a 11 federal program can be put in place. And by 12 then, the premium base in this state would be, 13 Lord knows, how many billions of dollars. 14 I won't go into all the details 15 of this bill except to say that it is well 16 reasoned. It has been well negotiated. And 17 again, to repeat, there are no labor memoranda 18 in opposition. 19 And I would hope at 6:00 o'clock 20 on July 6, Tuesday evening, for the time we have 21 remaining here, one day, 36 hours, 24 hours, 22 whatever it might be, that the powers to be in 23 the New York State Assembly, particularly those 7847 1 almost 30 members of the Assembly Majority who 2 want to see this bill passed and the Governor 3 sign his program bill into law, get their say in 4 the New York State Assembly and that they come 5 to the table to negotiate, to speak and to agree 6 on a bill with the Senate and the second floor. 7 It certainly can be done. As I 8 said, it's been done in 20 states. Just a 9 couple weeks ago the last state, in Nebraska. I 10 would hope we in New York could do the same and 11 begin the very, very long march towards cost 12 containment in our Workers' Compensation system. 13 We have to start now. We can not 14 wait. And if we do not start now, I challenge 15 my colleagues in the Assembly to explain to 16 their constituents when they get home the rate 17 increases that are taking place in Workers' 18 Compensation and driving not only businesses - 19 because this is not just a business bill -- but 20 driving jobs and employees wholesale out of the 21 state of New York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 7848 1 Oh, Senator Stachowski. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would 3 Senator Lack yield for a few questions? 4 SENATOR LACK: Certainly. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: One at a 6 some time, of course. Senator, I noticed in the 7 bill there is an advisory committee, and in the 8 print we are looking at now, there are no 9 appointments for Minority Leaders, so to speak, 10 in either house and we were wondering if it will 11 be addressed in the final bill, not that this is 12 not, but if there is a compromise yet to be 13 worked out if that small oversight could be 14 looked at, possibly taken care of? 15 SENATOR LACK: Senator, if the 16 Senate Minority could implead with the Assembly 17 Majority so that this bill could become law, I 18 can guarantee you that there would be no problem 19 with your request that there be representation 20 appointed by the Minority Leaders of both 21 houses. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator 23 yield for another question? 7849 1 SENATOR LACK: Yes, sir. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I think, for 3 the benefit of people who have been watching 4 this bill as it went now from an "A" print to a 5 "C" print and notice that we all have memos of 6 opposition obviously, let's first start with the 7 union side, that PEF was against it and that the 8 bricklayers and some others, and the craftsmen 9 were against it. You made -- you took steps 10 that would cause them to withdraw their 11 opposition? 12 SENATOR LACK: That's correct, 13 Senator. Actually, the original print, 5886, 14 and 5886-A, actually took care, or should have, 15 of the opposition. Obviously to many labor 16 organizations in this state, that was not clear 17 enough, and I've been here long enough to know 18 that there's no problem with being redundant, so 19 we were doubly redundant, and we have in the 20 bill provisions which I call belt, suspenders 21 and a hang-up. 22 It is now in three places in this 23 piece of legislation that wherever there is a 7850 1 collective bargaining agreement or wherever 2 there should be a collective bargaining 3 agreement, and if they didn't have a collective 4 bargaining agreement and should have had a 5 collective bargaining agreement that this cannot 6 be implemented until it's done through a 7 collective bargaining agreement in three places. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the 9 Senator yield for another question? 10 SENATOR LACK: Certainly. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Also in the 12 original bill, excuse me, on the "A" print, the 13 Retail Council had a problem and you obviously 14 have taken care of that problem. Could you 15 explain to those members that have been 16 following how that - 17 SENATOR LACK: Well, that problem 18 was a general problem which has now been taken 19 care of, and I didn't read every business 20 organization that had filed a memo in favor, but 21 I don't know many that are around who have not 22 and I think virtually from small chambers of 23 commerce to banks to the general organizations, 7851 1 including the Business Council, I've mentioned 2 they've all filed memos in favor of this bill 3 and I've fought to tell you that, even after the 4 current Assembly version, in setting up some 5 kind of labor management committee appoints 6 directly a representative, and it's in their 7 bill of the New York State Business Council and 8 the New York State AFL-CIO, the New York State 9 Business Council has endorsed not that bill but 10 this bill, and the New York State AFL-CIO has 11 issued no memo whatsoever to anybody. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you, 13 Senator. On the bill. 14 We're glad that the steps have 15 been taken to remove the opposition, and we're 16 glad that we now have fallen in line in the 17 Senate with the position that the Governor has 18 and that two-thirds of the three parties 19 necessary are moving forward to get something 20 done in managed care. 21 I think it's a realization that 22 the cost of managed care is very high to 23 business and, as a result of that, extremely 7852 1 costly to the work force so that dealing with 2 managed care we feel is very, very important at 3 this time, but it also at the time that we 4 wanted to deal with managed care, we didn't want 5 to expose any of the working men and women in 6 the state of New York to anything that they felt 7 was unfair to them and, obviously, by doing a 8 pilot type bill, we'll find out and see if 9 there's any kind of changes that have to be made 10 so that this would continue to be a win/win both 11 from the people that are paying the bills for 12 the policies and that of the working people that 13 are covered by them, and that nobody is given an 14 unfair deal; so that this pilot type of bill is 15 a much better idea. I think the Governor is 16 right in being behind it. 17 I'm glad to see all the changes 18 were made to make it something everyone seems to 19 be able to live with, at least mostly everyone 20 seems to be able to live with, and hopefully 21 those people in the Assembly that are dealing 22 with this bill will also see fit to take some 23 steps this year and move along and hopefully 7853 1 support this bill so that we can accomplish a 2 great step forward in managed care and, 3 therefore, taking a great step forward in 4 dealing with the problems that we have with our 5 Workers' Compensation system. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last -- Senator Onorato. 8 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator Lack, 9 you mentioned in your remarks that you took care 10 of the problems of the various labor unions and 11 that you had three redundancies in your new 12 version. These three redundancies took care of 13 these problems, I take it, right? 14 SENATOR LACK: Yes, Senator 15 Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Well, then, in 17 this particular case redundancies are worth 18 repeating; is that correct? 19 SENATOR LACK: Absolutely, 20 Senator. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7854 1 Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, I rise in support of this bill, and I 4 give my compliments to my colleague from Long 5 Island in being persistent in addressing the 6 points that were raised. 7 In Monroe County, managed care is 8 not a foreign concept but one that has been a 9 hallmark of the care in the Rochester health 10 care system. But I think I'd be remiss if I 11 didn't mention that there is one other thing 12 that this managed care system might do. 13 If you look at the Florida 14 system, one of the reasons for doing this was 15 not only the promise of the reduction in cost to 16 the Workers' Compensation system but the promise 17 that it holds. It holds not only the reduction 18 in cost to the employers; it holds open the 19 option that we may be able to increase the 20 benefits to the employee without increasing the 21 costs to the employer, and that's something we 22 should not lose sight of, that this managed care 23 might hold not only the costs down to the 7855 1 employer, which is important in this state, but 2 if the costs go down, the persons who need the 3 coverage in the Workmen's Compensation system 4 may find that they'll be able to increase the 5 benefit without increasing the overall cost. 6 So there's a great deal of 7 promise in this proposal. I think it's a good 8 step in the right direction. I'm pleased to 9 support it, commend those involved in sticking 10 with it and getting it through. I wish them 11 well with the other house. 12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1386. 7856 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1386, 2 the Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1386, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 5 5303-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. Hold on 18 one second. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 19 Mr. President, I understand this 20 was a layaside by Senator Solomon, and that he 21 was here, just walked out a moment ago. There 22 he is, right. I want to give him the courtesy. 23 Senator, you want to vote no, or you want to 7857 1 debate this? 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Oh, I'd just 3 like an explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll on the reconsideration of the bill that 6 just passed. 7 (The Secretary called the roll on 8 reconsideration.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is before the house. 12 Senator Solomon. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator 14 Velella, it would be easier if you just 15 questioned, can you tell me what the term 16 viatical is, viatical (inaudible). 17 SENATOR VELELLA: It's got a 18 Biblical context. It means in preparation for 19 death, viatical -- viatical settlements will now 20 be settlements which people who are diagnosed as 21 having fatal diseases will now be covered under 22 this section. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Thank you 7858 1 Senator Velella. The reason I asked - 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Those who are 3 preparing for death and arranging their life 4 insurance problems. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: The reason I 6 asked because it wasn't in the dictionary. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read the 10 last section. 11 SENATOR VELELLA: When the 12 dictionary fails, try the Bible. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Present. 7859 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 528, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 528. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 528, by member of the Assembly Seminerio, 6 Assembly Bill Number 3952-B, an act to amend the 7 Labor Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 2, 17 Senators Johnson and - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: And 19 Daly. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 3, 21 Senators Daly, Johnson and Kuhl recorded in the 22 negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7860 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 4 Calendar 1444, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1444, 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1444, by Senator Mega, Senate Bill Number 9 5985-A, Uniform City Court Act. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act - 15 SENATOR GOLD: Sorry. Senator 16 Dollinger would like an explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Dollinger would like an explanation. 19 SENATOR MEGA: Yes, Mr. 20 President. This bill was introduced at the 21 request of the uniform -- Unified Court System. 22 It amends the Uniform City Court Act in relation 23 to certain judges in the city courts outside of 7861 1 the city of New York, and what it does is, it, 2 for pension purposes, treats part-time city 3 court judges as full-time judges. 4 Up until the present time, those 5 part-time judges thought that their pensions 6 were being designated or worked on as full-time, 7 and what this does is to say that, yes, you are 8 full-time judges for all those judges that are 9 sitting up until April 1 of next year. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 18 Calendar 1582. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Just a 20 second, Senator Present. They're still 21 counting. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Oh, I'm sorry. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7862 1 Results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 1444 are 4 Senators Daly, Dollinger, Galiber, Holland, 5 Jones, LaValle, Libous, Masiello, Padavan, 6 Pataki, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Stachowski and 7 Volker. Ayes 39, nays 15. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Seward. 13 SENATOR SEWARD: I would ask 14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 15 on Calendar 528. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 528, 17 Senator Seward will be in the negative. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 19 Senator Kuhl. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 21 President. I ask unanimous consent to be 22 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 23 1581, please. 7863 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1581, 2 Senator Kuhl will be in the negative. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: May I have 6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 7 on Calendar 1324? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1324, 9 Senator Galiber will be in the negative. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, 11 sir. 12 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Cook. 15 SENATOR COOK: Can I be in the 16 negative on the last bill, whatever that number 17 was, 1444? 1444. Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1444, I 19 think it was. Yeah, 1444. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Galiber. 7864 1 SENATOR GALIBER: With your 2 indulgence, sir, could you tell me how I was 3 recorded on Calendar Number 1442? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1442. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: 1444? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1444, I 7 think you meant. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Yeah. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 10 were in the negative. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Could I be 12 recorded yes on that? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You can 14 be recorded in the affirmative. 15 Senator Present, it's your turn. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1580, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 158 - 19 80. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1580, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Bill Number 8652, an act to amend the 23 Public Health Law. 7865 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 5 Senator Saland be kind enough to yield to a 6 question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 8 confident he will. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I raised 10 an issue in Rules which I hope they made you 11 aware of, and I think that the intent of the 12 bill, Senator, is something which does not upset 13 me or excite me. 14 As I understand it, you're 15 amending those sections where we have banned - 16 abandoned use of lead in certain children's toys 17 so as to allow, in the words of this section, 18 not to apply to miniatures which are lead 19 containing reduced scale copies of real or 20 fictional characters or objects, and I was told 21 that this was to apply to basically high-priced 22 items that collectors collect; it's not 23 children's toys. 7866 1 Am I on target so far? 2 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, correct, 3 Senator. 4 SENATOR GOLD: All right. What 5 I'm concerned about, Senator, is not what you 6 want to do, which I can support, but the 7 following problem: Your law which amends the law 8 which would prohibit the use of this material 9 for toys says, quote: "The provisions shall not 10 apply to miniatures which are lead-containing 11 reduced scale copies of real or fictional 12 characters." Why could somebody not produce 13 under this, then, a G.I. Joe Toys for Children 14 which are obviously miniatures of fictional 15 characters is and be in compliance with this 16 section? 17 There is no requirement that the 18 individual mark on it that it's a toy for 19 children or whatever, but I mean it seems to me 20 that this completely opens the door. If the 21 language said that you would exclude items made 22 for collection or by collectors or that are sold 23 for no less than $50 or $40, something which - 7867 1 which would take, you know, somehow define the 2 collectibles better but, under this language, 3 someone is back in the toy business, and I know 4 that's not what you mean to do. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Senator, you are 6 correct that it is not my intention nor the 7 intention of the Assembly sponsor who drafted 8 this language, I'm sure. 9 What -- what this attempts to 10 address is basically the inequity that currently 11 exists whereby there are no prohibitions 12 whatsoever in terms of the catalogue 13 distributors who are -- who have the ability to 14 sell these types of items in New York State. 15 They sell them by way of catalogue. It's 16 virtually impossible to police. There are 17 several producers in New York who are doing just 18 that. They're producing this product. They 19 find themselves under the existing law basically 20 being forced to go out of business, and this is 21 an endeavor to try and make sure that they don't 22 have that market closed off to them. 23 If you're concerned with the 7868 1 draftsmanship, I certainly would be more than 2 happy to sit down with -- with Assemblywoman 3 Hickey to see if we can accommodate some of your 4 concerns. I don't believe this is painted as 5 broadly as to basically open the flood gates, 6 but I'm concerned that with the Commissioner 7 promulgating regulations which are due to go 8 into effect shortly, that these manufacturers 9 who currently do business here in New York are 10 going to find themselves shut down. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the 12 Senator will yield to one question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 14 you yield? 15 SENATOR GOLD: I don't want them 16 shut down, and I want to help you and the 17 Assemblywoman, and that's why I brought it up in 18 Rules, but -- and I wouldn't normally -- I'm 19 only going to spend another minute, but the 20 language here says, and this is the whole bill, 21 the provisions of the section shall not apply to 22 miniatures which are lead-containing reduced 23 scale copies of real or fictional characters or 7869 1 objects. 2 What I don't understand, Senator, 3 if we amend the toy section with this language, 4 and tomorrow, I or anybody went into the 5 business of manufacturing now miniature G.I. 6 Joes why would I be prohibited under the other 7 section since I've now made this amendment? 8 SENATOR SALAND: I have copies of 9 both 1371 (a) and 1376. I don't have the entire 10 title. I'm not quite sure what language exists 11 in the other section, Senator. This merely 12 deals with 1371 (a) and 1376 (a). 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Well, 14 Senator, I have the section and all I'm saying 15 to you, Senator Saland, it's up to you. I mean 16 I -- you are an honest, honorable gentleman. 17 What I would like to do, it's up to you. If you 18 want to lay this a side until after dinner. If 19 after dinner, you're happy with it, we can just 20 take a vote on it. 21 I would really think that we are 22 about to make a major mistake. I think this is 23 going to open up the door because the language 7870 1 that you're giving us is going to protect the 2 people you want to protect, but absolutely will 3 be a bar to enforcement against anyone who now 4 creates these toys, because it says it. It says 5 it. The section won't apply. 6 So if you have a lead toy that is 7 not a miniature of an object, then the section 8 will apply, so for those who now want to make 9 all kinds of G.I. Joes, it can be all kinds of 10 war characters or anything else, I believe this 11 opens it up, and I know you don't want to do 12 that. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Senator, what I 14 will do is, I will take a look at the entire 15 title. I will put this over until after the 16 break and will be very happy to take it up with 17 you after that. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I appreciate your 19 courtesy. I know we're both on the same wave 20 length. Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Do you 22 want to lay it aside? 23 SENATOR SALAND: Lay it aside. 7871 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 2 bill aside temporarily. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 can we take up the active calendar on the 6 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Supplemental Calendar Number 1, which is on your 9 desk, it's a Rules calendar. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: I'd like to 11 take up the non-controversial bills and see how 12 many we can move. I'd like to call a recess or 13 stand at ease around 6:30. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: O.K. 15 Sounds like a good idea. 16 THE SECRETARY: The first bill on 17 the active list is on the regular calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 first bill on the active list is on the regular 20 calendar. Secretary will read it. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 17, 22 Calendar Number 902, substituted earlier today, 23 by member of the Assembly colman, Assembly Bill 7872 1 Number 1250-A, Education Law, in relation to the 2 profession of athletic training. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 14 Calendar -- Supplemental Calendar Number 1, 15 Calendar Number 1587, Senator Holland moves to 16 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 17 Bill Number 3056-A and substitute it for the 18 identical Third Reading 1587. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7873 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1588, Senator Kuhl moves to discharge the 9 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10 3257 and substitute it for the identical Third 11 Reading 1588. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 14 aside. Substitution is ordered, though. We'll 15 substitute the bill. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: All right. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Then 18 lay it aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1589, Senator Volker moves to discharge the 21 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 22 6735 and substitute it for the identical Third 23 Reading 1589. 7874 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1590, substituted -- Senator Volker moves to 14 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 15 Bill Number 6888 and substitute it for the 16 identical Third Reading 1590. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Substitution ordered. Read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7875 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1591, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: 1540-A. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 9 aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1592. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson 14 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 7665-A and substitute it 16 for the identical Third Reading 1592. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Substitution ordered. Lay it aside. Is that 19 right, Senator Gold? 20 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, please. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1593, Senator Velella moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7876 1 7777 and substitute it for the identical 2 Calendar Number 1593. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1594, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 16 4862-A, Public Health Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7877 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 3, 2 Senators Farley, Kuhl and Pataki recorded in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1595, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 8617-A and substitute it for the identical Third 10 Reading 1595. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 13 section. I'm sorry. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section - 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 Would the negatives please raise 20 your hand? 21 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 22 Calendar Number 1595, ayes 51, nays 3, Senators 23 Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded in the 7878 1 negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1596, by Senator - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1596, 8 laid aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1597, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 11 5254-B, Public Authorities Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1598, Senator Hannon moves to discharge the 7879 1 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 2 7871-A and substitute it for the identical Third 3 Reading 1598. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Substitution is ordered. Lay the bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1599, Senator Mega moves to discharge the 9 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10 437-A and substitute it for the identical Third 11 Reading 1599. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 13 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 SENATOR GOLD: Never mind. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 7880 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1600, Senator Volker moves to discharge the 3 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 4 8339-C and substitute it for the identical Third 5 Reading 1600. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, 7 please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 9 aside, just -- O.K. Substitution is ordered. 10 Now lay the bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1602, Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the 13 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 14 8623 and substitute is it for the identical 15 Third Reading 1602. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7881 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1604, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 6125, relation to authorizing an 9 apportionment of state aid for certain salary 10 expenses. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1605, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 23 Bill Number 6137. 7882 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1606, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 6 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7 8798 and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading 1606. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1607, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 6148, 22 to provide for the payment allowances - 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 7883 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Is that 2 a Senate bill? Laid aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1608, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 5 Bill Number 6151, an act to enact a petroleum 6 over-charge - 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Is that 9 a sub? No? Lay it aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1609. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 13 high, so lay it aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1610, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Bill Number 6159, Education Law. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1611. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside. It's high. 7884 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1612, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 3 6163, Environmental Conservation Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1613. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is high. You can lay it aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1614. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 21 high. Laid aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1615. 7885 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 2 high. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senate - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No. 5 There's a sub. Go ahead. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez 7 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 8 Assembly Bill Number 7605-A and substitute it 9 for the identical Third Reading 1615. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Substitution is ordered. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 21 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 7886 1 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 2 Larkin in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Larkin. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 6 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 7 negative on Calendar Number 1581, Print Number 8 611... 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1581, 10 Senator Larkin will be in the negative. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 does the desk have any housekeeping they'd like 14 to take care of? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Is 16 there any housekeeping, any motions, anything 17 good for the order here? 18 Senator Sheffer. 19 SENATOR SHEFFER: Mr. President, 20 I'd ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 21 negative on Calendar Number 1444, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1444, 23 Senator Sheffer will be in the negative. 7887 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 24 of 2 today's calendar, Senator Daly moves to 3 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 4 Bill Number 4774-C and substitute it for the 5 identical Third Reading 1358. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Substitution is ordered. Lay the bill aside. 8 Senator Present. 9 Senator Saland, did you have 10 anything? 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 the following bills, I'd ask they be 13 recommitted: Senate Print 3954, by Senator 14 Larkin, Calendar Number 358; Senate Number 6020, 15 Rules Committee bill, Calendar 1406; and Senate 16 Print 6045, by Senator Cook, 1408 Calendar 17 Number. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bills are recommitted. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Does Senator 21 Wright have something? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Wright, do you have something? 7888 1 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes, Mr. 2 President. I would ask unanimous consent to be 3 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 528, 4 Calendar Number 1440 and Calendar Number 1594. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 6 objection. 7 Senator Daly, could I see you for 8 a minute? I'm not going to make you take over. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: And now, Mr. 11 President, I move that we recess until 8:30, 12 stand at ease until 8:30. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Before 14 I -- stand at ease, Senator Mega, do you have 15 something? 16 SENATOR MEGA: Yes. Does that 17 mean 8:30, 10:00 o'clock, 11:00 o'clock or 18 midnight? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 20 up to the acting Majority Leader. 21 SENATOR MEGA: I guess we don't 22 know. Thank you, Mr. President. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 7889 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: There will be a 4 Rules Committee meeting in Room 332 at 8:30. I 5 would hope that everybody would be accommodating 6 and be back so we can start the session at 8:30 7 or soon thereafter. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 Senate stands at ease. There will be - 10 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Daly. 13 SENATOR DALY: May I have 14 unanimous consent to be voted in the negative on 15 Calendar Number 1594? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1594, 17 Senator Daly is in the negative. 18 The Senate will stand at ease. 19 There will be a Rules Committee promptly at 20 8:30. We expect to be back in here at 8:30 21 promptly. Senate stands at ease. 22 (Whereupon at 6:35 p.m., the 23 Senate stood at ease.) 7890 1 ...At 9:50 p.m.... 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 can we return to a report of standing committees 5 and receive that report? 6 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 7 read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 9 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 10 following bills directly for third reading: 11 Senate Bill Number 1031, by 12 Senator Skelos, an act to amend the General 13 Municipal Law; 14 1358-B, by Senator Jones, 15 authorizing the town of Pittsford to discontinue 16 as park lands certain lands; 17 2458, by Senator Nozzolio, Public 18 Authorities Law; 19 3037-A, by Senator Daly, General 20 City Law; 21 3783, by Senator Daly, amends 22 Chapter 596 of the Laws of 1935; 23 4724-A, by Senator Johnson, 7891 1 Executive Law; 2 4840-B, by Senator Velella, an 3 act to amend the Tax Law; 4 5120-B, by Senator Nozzolio, an 5 act to amend the Election Law; 6 5558, by Senator Mega, Election 7 Law; 8 5673-A by Senator Tully, Public 9 Health Law; 10 5906-A, by Senator Padavan, New 11 York State Medical Care Facilities Finance 12 Agency Act; 13 5950, by Senator Kuhl, 14 Agriculture and Markets Law; 15 6035, by Senator Goodman, Public 16 Buildings Law; 17 6103-A, by Senator Tully, 18 Insurance Law; 19 6167, by the Committee on Rules, 20 amends a chapter of the laws of 1993; 21 6170, by Senator Levy, Vehicle 22 and Traffic Law; 23 6171, by the Committee on Rules, 7892 1 Local Finance Law; 2 6178, Senate Budget Bill, amends 3 Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993; 4 6179, Senate Budget Bill, an act 5 to amend the Education Law; 6 Assembly Bill Number 3446, by 7 member of the Assembly Koppell, with a Senate 8 Reprint Number of 21,002, an act to amend the 9 Judiciary Law and the Executive Law; 10 2951, by -- Assembly Bill 2951, 11 by member of the Assembly Singer, General 12 Obligations Law; 13 Assembly Bill Number 8508-A, by 14 the Assembly Committee on Rules, authorize the 15 city of Mount Vernon to discontinue the use of 16 certain city lands; and 17 Assembly Bill Number 8595, by the 18 Assembly Committee on Rules, authorize the city 19 of New York to continue the use of portions of 20 Pelham Bay Park. 21 All bills reported directly for 22 third reading. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Third reading. 7893 1 Senator Bruno, do you have a 2 motion? 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 4 recognize Senator Velella, please. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. I'd like 7 to call up my Resolution 1982. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 9 read the title of the resolution. 10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 11 Resolution, by Senator Velella and other members 12 of the Senate, memorializing the Congress of the 13 United States and the members of the New York 14 Congressional delegation to support passage of a 15 national disaster mitigation and reinsurance 16 program in the 103rd Congress. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. Well, 19 this resolution is calling upon Congress to face 20 a potential catastrophe that we have that might 21 hit this state and many other states in the 22 Union. 23 With the recent hurricanes and 7894 1 blizzards, Hurricane Andrew, the recent blizzard 2 that we went through and the natural 3 catastrophes, and also with the prediction this 4 year that hurricanes will be much more intense, 5 that there is a prediction that we will have 6 more this year hit our area, there is a problem 7 with casualty insurers, the homeowners 8 insurance, certain coverages about to be denied 9 or are very difficult to obtain. 10 Thank you. I move the 11 resolution, Mr. President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: On the 13 resolution, all those in favor say aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The resolution is adopted. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 20 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 4601-A, 21 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 22 desk. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 7895 1 read. 2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno, 3 Senate Bill Number 4601, an act to amend the 4 Economic Development Law. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: O.K. Mr. 6 President, I now move to reconsider the vote by 7 which this bill was passed. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on 9 reconsideration. 10 (The Secretary called the roll on 11 reconsideration. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 13 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr. 14 President, I offer up the following amendments. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Amendments 16 received. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 19 read. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 22 of the 21 regular calendar of today, Senator Stafford 22 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 23 Assembly Bill Number 1032-E and substitute it 7896 1 for the identical Third Reading 1529. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 3 ordered. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 can we take up the controversial calendar on the 7 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 9 read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 11 Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1588, 12 substituted earlier today, by member of the 13 Assembly Davidson, Assembly Bill Number 3257, an 14 act to amend the General City Law. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7897 1 1591, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 2 1540-A, an act to amend the Education Law. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 4 temporarily. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1592, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7665-A, 10 Environmental Conservation Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation has 13 been requested. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 15 temporarily. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 17 aside temporarily. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Call back 1591. 19 THE PRESIDENT: 1591. 20 THE SECRETARY: On Supplemental 21 Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1591, by 22 Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 1540-A, an 23 act to amend the Education Law. 7898 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1596, by Senator Sheffer, Senate Bill Number 11 5020, an act to amend the Labor Law and the 12 Workers' Compensation Law. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Sheffer 14 here? 15 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE PRESIDENT: That was Senator 7899 1 Sheffer's bill, Calendar Number 1596. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 3 can we have that reconsidered please? 4 SENATOR GOLD: Which one is this? 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: 1596. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on 7 reconsideration. 8 (The Secretary called the roll on 9 reconsideration.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Solomon. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Lay it aside, 13 please. 14 THE PRESIDENT: We are on the 15 controversial calendar. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Oh, O.K. Thank 17 you. All right. 18 THE PRESIDENT: And there will be 19 order in the chamber. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 21 will the sponsor yield, please? 22 SENATOR SHEFFER: Sure. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, this, 7900 1 as I understand it, exempts additional people 2 from Workers' Compensation coverage or the 3 requirement that there be Workers' Compensation 4 coverage? 5 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yeah, Senator, 6 two major points. 7 One is, although it's a 12-page 8 bill, literally 90 or 95 percent of it is simply 9 switching the location in the law of statutes 10 already in place, and the one operative section 11 of the bill does provide for independent 12 insurance agents and brokers almost precisely 13 the same structure of being independent 14 contractors as we passed for realtors several 15 years ago. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 17 Senator, if you will yield. 18 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yeah. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, a, 20 quote, agent for Allstate, who I call a captive 21 agent, you walk into their office, they work for 22 one insurance company, is that person considered 23 an independent contractor now? 7901 1 SENATOR SHEFFER: I believe not 2 under the provisions of this bill. They -- they 3 would not meet the threshholds included within 4 this bill for being independent contractors. In 5 other words, it isn't a question of whether they 6 work for Allstate or someone else, but that they 7 would need to meet these standards of being 8 separate or independent from the employer in 9 order to come under the provisions of this 10 bill. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Just one 12 other question, Senator, if you will continue to 13 yield. 14 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, this 16 isn't taking anyone else out. I assume, if 17 someone works for an independent insurance agent 18 or broker, they are still going to have to be 19 covered by Workers' Compensation. 20 SENATOR SHEFFER: In a non-agent 21 capacity, you mean? 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Well, what 23 happens -- no, let me give you an example. 7902 1 Someone has an insurance brokerage company and 2 they have an agent who works for them and he 3 goes out and sells insurance and he works for 4 that company. 5 SENATOR SHEFFER: Yes, does not 6 change that relationship or their status at all, 7 and what it really does is codifies the existing 8 situation, the existing reality and the court 9 cases that have come down as to that 10 relationship. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. So, 12 Senator, if you will yield to one more question, 13 this doesn't take anyone else out of Workers' 14 Comp. except for that independent agent who's 15 got his own business basically on an individual 16 basis. 17 SENATOR SHEFFER: Exactly. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7903 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1598, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7871-A, 8 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Got a "B" print on 10 that? 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 13 aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1600, substituted earlier today. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 17 temporarily. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 19 aside temporarily. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1605, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Bill Number 6137, Environmental Conservation Law 23 and the Tax Law. 7904 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50.... 7 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator 9 Pataki. 10 SENATOR PATAKI: To explain my 11 vote. This bill - 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki to 13 explain - 14 SENATOR PATAKI: This bill would 15 include the boroughs of the Bronx and Manhattan 16 in the Hudson River Greenway which I think is an 17 excellent idea. 18 I have to vote against this 19 legislation, however, notwithstanding the 20 tremendous effort that Senator Saland and others 21 have made to make this a good bill because of 22 two provisions: One providing that the City's 23 Waterfront Revitalization Program would 7905 1 automatically become the regional plan for that 2 region, and the second is that the boroughs of 3 the Bronx and Manhattan are under a different 4 formula to provide assistance, financial 5 assistance, to the Greenway than the other 6 counties in the Greenway. 7 So I want to commend Senator 8 Saland and the others, Senator Velella, for 9 working on this legislation, but I feel 10 constrained to vote in the negative, and I vote 11 in the negative. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki 13 votes no. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 15 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1607, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 20 6140-A, provide for the payment allowances to 21 private blind and deaf schools for teachers' 22 salaries. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Will you hold that 7906 1 for a moment? 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 3 temporarily. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside temporarily. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1608, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 6151, an act to enact the Petroleum 9 Over-charge Restitution Act of 1993. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1610, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Bill Number 6159, Education Law. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7907 1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 That completes action on those 7 bills that are not high that were on the 8 controversial calendar, Supplemental Calendar 9 Number 1. 10 Senator Cook is recognized. 11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, on 12 Calendar Number 200, I've had an opportunity to 13 review this bill more fully. I was recorded in 14 the negative. I wish to be recorded in the 15 affirmative, please. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Without 17 objection, so ordered. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 can we take up Calendar Number 1598. 21 THE PRESIDENT: 1598 on page 2 of 22 Supplemental Calendar 1. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7908 1 1598, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 2 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7871 3 A, an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Could we have a 5 brief explanation, please. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon. 7 SENATOR HANNON: There is added 8 an annual 7-hour refresher course to the fire 9 prevention training requirements for Triborough 10 Bridge and Tunnel employees and added to the 11 list of those employees that had been added to 12 the statute in 1990 are sergeants and 13 lieutenants. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 15 yield to a question? 16 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I was just 19 curious, Senator Hannon, where the bill comes 20 from. I mean, who has requested it? I was told 21 that the MTA opposes it, although I have no memo 22 and if I have no memo, that sort of goes in one 23 ear and out the other, but I was wondering - 7909 1 SENATOR HANNON: This, 2 correction, is Triborough, TBTA, not MTA. 3 SENATOR GOLD: All right, sorry, 4 but where does it come from? I mean who - 5 SENATOR HANNON: Probably I would 6 say because of the unions directly involved 7 along with D.C. 37. The one memo I have in file 8 is one in support. 9 SENATOR GOLD: And if the Senator 10 will yield to a question. In other words, the 11 unions want their employees to receive this 12 training; is that it? 13 SENATOR HANNON: Well, as a 14 practical matter, you know, you're on the other 15 side of the bridges that are involved which 16 would be the Throgs Neck and the Whitestone. 17 When we have the very frequent traffic jams that 18 occur, there -- the emergency vehicles cannot 19 get to the point where the fires are taking 20 place, and before we put the original statute 21 in, there was -- these employees were really 22 called upon as a matter of just human nature to 23 try to deal with these fires, because no one 7910 1 else could get to them. They were emergencies; 2 people were in danger. So we put the original 3 statute in. 4 It now comes up that given the 5 nature of the safety laws and the equipment 6 that's involved, that we should direct that 7 there should be some training. Now, by the way, 8 this training is to be done by the provisions of 9 the existing statute at the New York City Fire 10 Department Fire Academy. 11 So what we're trying to do is 12 help people. If we didn't have the peculiar 13 nature of these bridges with the toll and the 14 toll booths and plazas the way they are, we 15 wouldn't have to do this. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7911 1 passed. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1592, 4 please. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1592, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7665-A, 8 Environmental Conservation Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a brief 10 explanation in a brief way? 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Johnson. 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 13 I've spoken before on this floor about the dire 14 straits in which many of our fish are. One of 15 the problems is that the fish come inside to 16 spawn. Many times when they come along the 17 shore, they're taken by trawlers that are within 18 swimming distance of the beach. 19 The trying to get through the 20 inlets is a tedious task because the trawlers 21 are there circling around the inlets and catch 22 them before they can get in to spawn. It's 23 created major diminution in a lot of our 7912 1 species. 2 What this bill does, Mr. 3 President, is make the present prohibition of 4 trawling to within a half mile of the beach to 5 one mile of the beach, makes it a mile and a 6 half off the Rockaway Inlet and off Fire Island 7 Inlet and Jones Inlet for a period from January 8 1st to June 15th, the trawlers must stay two 9 miles off the inlet and we think this is going 10 to help a lot in maintaining the viability of 11 the species and, essentially, it does a similar 12 thing in the north shore bays in that the 13 trawling line is moved east of Shelter Island 14 instead of the west end of Shelter Island. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President - 16 yes, Mr. President. Will Senator Johnson yield 17 to a question? 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I notice 22 that this is an "A" print and there was a list 23 of official positions by the Department and on 7913 1 the original print they say "opposed as 2 drafted." 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm sorry. 4 What did they say? 5 SENATOR GOLD: They said "opposed 6 as drafted." 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Oh, really? 8 SENATOR GOLD: I was wondering 9 whether the department helped with the "A" 10 print. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I think 12 they haven't helped me with the "A" print 13 because they haven't opposed it. Senator, I 14 think this meets the requirements or 15 recommendations of the DEC generally. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 23 one, Senator LaValle recorded in the negative. 7914 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 5 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 6 negative on Calendar Number 528. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Without 8 objection, so ordered. 9 Senator Cook. 10 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 11 would it be possible for me to be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 1587? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Without 14 objection, so ordered. 15 SENATOR COOK: Thank you. 16 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki. 18 SENATOR PATAKI: I request 19 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 20 affirmative on 1605 by the Rules Committee. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Without 22 objection, so ordered. 23 SENATOR PATAKI: Thank you. 7915 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we take up 4 non-controversial on Supplemental Calendar 5 Number 2. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 7 read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 9 Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1616, Senator 10 Skelos moves to discharge the Committee on Rules 11 from Assembly Bill Number 1530 and substitute it 12 for the identical Third Reading 1616. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 14 ordered. Last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. Excuse 20 me. Ayes 57, nays one, Senator Padavan recorded 21 in the negative. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 7916 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1617, Senator Jones moves to discharge the 3 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 4 2406-B and substitute it for the identical Third 5 Reading 1617. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7 ordered. There is a home rule message at the 8 desk. Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 17 1618, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 18 2458, an act to amend the Public Authorities 19 Law. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7917 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1619, Senator Daly moves to discharge the 7 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8 5139-A and substitute it for the identical Third 9 Reading 1619. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 11 ordered. Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1620, Senator Daly moves to discharge the 21 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 22 6222 and substitute it for the identical Third 23 Reading 1620. 7918 1 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 2 ordered. Last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1621, Senator - 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Bill is laid 13 aside, please. Oh, yeah, we're going to do the 14 sub first. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson 16 moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from 17 Assembly Bill Number 6894-A and substitute it 18 for the identical Third Reading 1621. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 20 ordered, and the bill is laid aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1622, Senator Velella moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7919 1 5320-B and substitute it for the identical Third 2 Reading 1622. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 5 ordered, and the bill is laid aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1623, Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 7937-B and substitute it for the identical Third 10 Reading 1623. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 12 ordered. Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall -- the bill is laid aside. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1624, Senator Mega moves to discharge the 18 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 19 7878 and substitute it for the identical Third 20 Reading 1624. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. The substitution is ordered and the bill 23 is laid aside. 7920 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1625, Senator Tully moves to discharge the 3 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 4 7105-C and substitute it for the identical Third 5 Reading 1625. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7 ordered. Last section. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1626, Senator Padavan moves to discharge the 13 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 14 8507-A and substitute it for the identical Third 15 Reading 1626. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 17 ordered. Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 23 one, Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 7921 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1627, Senator Kuhl moves to discharge the 5 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6 8567 and substitute it for the identical Third 7 Reading 1627. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 9 ordered. Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 15 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1628, Senator Goodman moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 6860-A and substitute it for the identical Third 22 Reading 1628. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7922 1 ordered. Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- those 7 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 1628 8 are Senators Hannon, Jones, Kuhl, Padavan and 9 Pataki, also Senator Saland. Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1628 are 11 Senators DeFrancisco, Gold, Hannon, Jones, Kuhl, 12 Larkin, Nozzolio, Padavan, Pataki, Saland, 13 Stavisky, also Senator Mega, also Senator 14 LaValle, also Senator Nolan, also Senator 15 Farley, also Senator Sears. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1629, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 20 6103-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 7923 1 message of necessity at the desk? 2 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 3 message at the desk. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 5 accept the message. 6 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 7 all those in favor say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The ayes have it. The motion is 12 agreed to. Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 3, 18 Senators Daly, Spano and Velella recorded in the 19 negative, also Senator Seward in the negative. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 21 passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1630. 7924 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 high. It will be laid aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1631. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6 high. It will be laid aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1632, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 9 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10 8809 and substitute it for the identical Third 11 Reading 1632. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 13 ordered. Last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1633, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 7925 1 8834, and substitute it for the identical Third 2 Reading 1633. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 4 ordered. Last section. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 is there -- is there a message of necessity at 7 the desk? 8 THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, there 9 is. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 11 accept the message. 12 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 13 all those in favor say aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The message is -- motion is 18 agreed to. The message is accepted. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1634, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 7926 1 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 2 8835 and substitute it for the identical Third 3 Reading 1634. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 5 ordered. There is a message at the desk. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 7 accept the message. 8 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 9 all those in favor say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The motion is agreed to. The 14 message is accepted. Last section. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1635, by member of the Assembly Koppell, 20 Assembly Bill Number 3446, with a Senate Reprint 21 of 21,002, an act to amend the Judiciary Law and 22 the Executive Law. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7927 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1636. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1637, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 15 Assembly Bill Number 8508-A, city of Mount 16 Vernon to discontinue the use of certain city 17 lands. 18 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 19 rule message at the desk. Last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 7928 1 aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1638, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Bill Number 8595. 5 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 6 rule message at the desk. Last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 14 aside. 15 That completes action on the 16 non-controversial Supplemental Calendar 2. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Return to 19 motions and resolutions? 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1633, 21 please. 22 THE PRESIDENT: First, Senator 23 Johnson. 7929 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Return to 2 motions and resolutions. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Take care of 4 Senator Johnson's motion. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 6 on page 24, I offer the following amendments to 7 Calendar Number 1347, Senate Print Number 5947 8 B, ask that said bill retain its place on the 9 Third Reading Calendar. 10 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 13 read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1633, substituted earlier, Assembly Budget Bill, 16 Assembly Bill Number 8834, an act to amend 17 Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1993, enacting the 18 State Operations Budget. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, Mr. 21 President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 23 Leichter. 7930 1 THE PRESIDENT: Very difficult to 2 understand when a Senator wants recognition when 3 everyone is talking at once. Like to ask that 4 there be order in the chamber. 5 Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 I wanted to ask Senator Daly a question in 8 relation to this bill, if Senator Daly would 9 yield, please. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The Senator will 11 yield. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Daly, 13 on page 78 of the bill, there are some 14 provisions relating - 15 SENATOR DALY: May I ask, Mr. 16 President, what bill we're on. 17 THE PRESIDENT: This bill is the 18 budget bill, Calendar Number 1633. 19 SENATOR DALY: M-m h-m-m. Is 20 that 8834? What is the print number, 6179? 21 THE PRESIDENT: 6178. 22 SENATOR DALY: Yeah. What page? 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: 78, in 7931 1 relation to the New York Urban Development 2 Corporation. 3 SENATOR DALY: M-m h-m-m. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. 5 Senator, and I don't mean to put you on the spot 6 because I appreciate it's not your bill and, 7 like me, you probably had five minutes to look 8 at it, or I had five minutes because I was 9 leafing through it, and you apparently just 10 picked it up, but one thing that caught my 11 attention was a provision relating to the Urban 12 Development Corporation and the approval of its 13 expenditures by the Public Authorities Control 14 Board because that's a matter you and I 15 discussed, and I think you and I share some of 16 the same sentiments about the importance of 17 closer monitoring over the Urban Development 18 Corporation; and I see on lines 31 through 33, 19 that the expenditures of funds from a particular 20 fund that has been set up by the Legislature 21 shall not be subject to review and approval by 22 the Public Authorities Control Board. 23 You might have some comment on 7932 1 that. I appreciate that it was not written by 2 you, but I think it does deal with a matter that 3 you and I, and I would hope other members would 4 have some concern over, and that's the proper 5 supervision and monitoring of the UDC by this 6 Legislature. 7 SENATOR DALY: Senator, I agree 8 with your analysis of that language. Knowing 9 I'm going to conjecture based on - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 11 Can't hear you, Senator. 12 SENATOR DALY: I'm going to 13 conjecture based on things that occurred in the 14 last couple of weeks, that this language that 15 the Assembly insisted upon. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, shame on 17 them. 18 SENATOR DALY: Senator, I 19 couldn't agree with you more. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, let me 21 also ask one other question, something that 22 caught my eye. 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, may 7933 1 I add something while Senator Leichter is 2 looking at the - 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Daly is 4 recognized. 5 SENATOR DALY: If the Senator 6 would yield. 7 Senator, would you agree that, 8 after reading some of this language, at our 9 insistence that the loan authority not be 10 permanentized as the Assembly requested but be 11 limited to a two-year extender? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, 13 Senator. I didn't get that point. 14 SENATOR DALY: Basically in the 15 bill we discussed yesterday where we extended 16 the loan powers of the UDC for two years, the 17 Assembly had requested that we permanentize that 18 power. This house refused to permanentize that 19 power and said we would only extend it for two 20 years, and I'm asking you don't you believe that 21 that was a good decision on the part of this 22 house? 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: It was, sir. 7934 1 SENATOR DALY: Thank you. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. If I - 5 if I could just ask somebody, I don't know 6 whether maybe the distinguished chairman of 7 Finance. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sorry, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator, 11 again, we're in relation to the Urban 12 Development Corporation. This has to do with 13 the minority- and women-owned business 14 development and lending program. It's on page 15 87, you'll see some language was added to the 16 effect -- I'll read it. It starts on line 17: 17 The corporation shall not be authorized to 18 allocate more than 25 percent of the aggregate 19 appropriation authority available for such 20 program for grants to municipalities, public 21 authorities and governmental agencies. 22 Do you know what the intent of 23 that language is? 7935 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Would you read 2 that again, please. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: It starts on 4 line 18. Maybe it's easier if you just read it 5 to yourself. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I -- it 7 would appear to me that these are the -- this is 8 a provision where it will make it possible for 9 grants, which I'm sure all of us at times are 10 very anxious to have in our districts throughout 11 the state. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand. 13 But why -- why this limitation of 25 percent in 14 relation to aggregate amount of grants to 15 municipalities, public authorities? 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I 17 suppose they do -- I suppose there are grants to 18 others other than -- there are other than 19 municipalities, public authorities and 20 governmental agencies. There are private sector 21 projects that get some very substantial support 22 from this agency. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, sir, I 7936 1 think that's so, but I don't know why we thought 2 it - 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: I think maybe 4 it's the same if you read, if you read the -- or 5 excuse me, I don't mean to ask you, but if one 6 is to read, for instance, the law as far as the 7 Power Authority is concerned, where there are 8 various allocations to the private sector, 9 public sectors, matter of fact to municipals and 10 I think this is the same thing. I think they 11 want to make sure at least 25 percent is made 12 available, as you stated, to -- that's what it 13 is, not more than, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry, 14 not more. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: It's not 16 more. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: It's not 18 more. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: And that was 20 my question, why we were doing that. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, it -- as 22 I recall in the conference, the Assembly 23 requested it and, frankly, it made good sense to 7937 1 me. The -- this appropriation, I think, should 2 be available to other projects and, according to 3 this, we won't have more than 25 percent to 4 these municipalities, public authorities and 5 governmental agencies who probably, and I don't 6 mean this as a criticism, but they no doubt 7 would be, you know, right there, very interested 8 in the appropriations. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well! 10 Senator, I accept what you say which is that 11 this was asked for by the Assembly. I still 12 don't understand why, but let me ask you. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I do. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me? 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: I do, but 16 that's all right. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm -- I'm 18 sure you do, sir. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me -- let 21 me ask you on page 95, and I guess all of this 22 still relates to the Urban Development 23 Corporation. I'm particularly concerned about 7938 1 that agency. I think all of us ought to be 2 concerned about what it's involved in, how it 3 spends its monies, and so on. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: You're exactly 5 right. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I see, at 7 page 95, some language has been added which 8 apparently is intended for a specific 9 corporation, and I wonder what that corporation 10 is, obviously to provide some assistance, refers 11 to a not-for-profit corporation where such 12 project involves the headquarters, or main 13 office of such corporation and where such 14 project will create a - 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I 16 compliment the Governor and with Senate support, 17 there are some major problems in the areas where 18 IBM is located. It's tragic, it's disastrous, 19 and also this is for those areas where there are 20 closures. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, with 22 all due respect, I don't think that's the 23 provision. I think you're referring to another 7939 1 provision. Here's specific language, as I 2 understand it, regional specific purpose for a 3 not-for-profit corporation which is certainly 4 not what IBM is. Lately it's been a not-much 5 profit corporation. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, some 7 joke about that, Franz, but there are many that 8 aren't. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand. 10 But here, Senator Stafford, obviously it's a 11 specific corporation that we are authorizing UDC 12 to provide monies to. Do you know which 13 corporation that is? It's a not-for-profit 14 corporation which involves the headquarters or 15 main office of such corporation. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: This is a 17 regional revolving loan fund and, as you know as 18 my summer Senator, I have a great deal of 19 respect for you, and we'll always be friends, 20 but I'm going to lecture you for just one second 21 as you lecture us. You stand there and joke 22 about IBM, whether it's profitable or not 23 profitable. There are people that have worked 7940 1 there 30, 40 years now, and they're out on the 2 street. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 4 nobody was joking about it. I must say I know 5 the hour is late and maybe you didn't 6 understand, Senator, but nobody made any jokes. 7 For you the joke is, if there is one, sir, is 8 that we're talking about a not-for-profit 9 corporation in this bill, and you said IBM which 10 is not a not-for-profit corporation. 11 Now, I don't think anybody joked 12 about IBM as such or the loss of jobs, so I 13 don't know, frankly, what it is you're express 14 ing yourself on. Let me just -- let me just - 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, could I 16 explain what I was expressing myself on? 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, Senator, I 18 thought it was totally inappropriate. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, can I 20 explain to you why it isn't inappropriate? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: The reason why 23 it isn't inappropriate or it is inappropriate is 7941 1 we're talking about some projects here that 2 people are down and out. You've got a situation 3 up in the northern part of the state where we'll 4 be losing 7500 jobs in your summer area. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what 6 does that - 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Let me explain 8 it; I didn't interrupt you. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't think 10 you're explaining, but please go ahead. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Trying to 12 explain it. I didn't interrupted you. 13 Now, when I said -- and I know 14 you can get a bit confused, there's two 15 provisions here. I just want to share with you 16 that when I said something about not-for-profit 17 you sort of joked whether IBM was not-for-profit 18 or not, that's what I heard. If I heard it 19 wrong, I apologize. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I - 21 Senator, I'll accept your apology, but let me 22 just say, Senator, that I don't know where we 23 got off on this track, and so on. I'm not 7942 1 challenging this appropriation. I asked a 2 perfectly appropriate question. You obviously 3 misunderstood the section that we were referring 4 to. 5 I asked you a simple question, 6 which I'm going to repeat. There was no reason 7 for you, sir, to -- to misunderstand it as you 8 did or to express yourself as you did. Nobody's 9 talking against economic development. We're 10 trying to find out on a bill that was put on our 11 desks a few minutes ago, where there's a 12 provision -- excuse me for trying to understand 13 it -- you're the chairman of Finance, and I ask 14 you again, on page 95, line 42, there's a 15 reference to a not-for-profit corporation. 16 Obviously, we are aiding a 17 specific not-for-profit corporation that seems 18 to have moved. I'd like to know if you know, 19 and I think you should know, and I should be 20 entitled to know, what that not-for-profit 21 corporation is. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well - 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: This seems to 7943 1 be that we're giving money to some 2 not-for-profit to move. We know that there have 3 been various not-for-profits as well as for 4 profits that have moved. I'd like to know which 5 not-for-profit that is. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I will 7 get you the details on it. The way it appears 8 to me -- the way it appears to me there's a 9 not-for-profit corporation which is working in 10 this area where IBM is and where these base 11 closures are, and I think you'll find that 12 that's what it's used for, but I will get you 13 the exact details what it's for. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Let me 15 just say, Senator, that I don't want to continue 16 this discussion which, frankly, is not very 17 fruitful. I don't believe that that particular 18 section is even dealing with the base closings 19 or other things, because that's on the -- on - 20 in another section which is on page 95, which is 21 fine. 22 I -- I just think that the debate 23 if it could be characterized as such between 7944 1 Senator Stafford and me, I guess, is a good 2 example why maybe we shouldn't be having these 3 -- these late night sessions after so many days 4 of having -- of doing absolutely nothing and 5 having bills that are of some significance put 6 on our desks. 7 I think it is important that we 8 understand what are in these bills. I don't 9 intend to vote against it, although I have some 10 objections to some of the provision about UDC 11 and I'd like to, since I have a lot of questions 12 about how UDC functions, to know exactly who it 13 is helping. It may be fine, or I may have 14 objections to it or it may be somebody else here 15 will have objections to it, but that was the 16 intent and purpose of my questions, and I think 17 they were appropriate. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: In all due 20 respect and courtesy, hold it, please, until we 21 get the information; please hold the bill. Lay 22 the bill aside. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 7945 1 aside. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 temporarily laying that 1633 aside. 4 Can we call up 1634. 5 THE PRESIDENT: 1634. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1634, substituted earlier, Assembly Budget Bill, 8 Assembly Bill Number 8835, an act to amend the 9 Education Law, in relation to state aid to 10 school districts. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What's the 20 number? 21 THE PRESIDENT: This is 1634. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dollinger 23 in the negative. 7946 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Dollinger 2 is recorded in the negative. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 4 we can call the bill back up. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Stafford. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: You want to 8 call that bill back up, and I apologize. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 10 read. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Little edgy on 12 these questions where we lost 7500 jobs, I'll 13 tell you, pretty serious thing. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: 1633 is now 15 before us. 16 THE PRESIDENT: 1633. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1633, substituted earlier today, Assembly Budget 19 Bill 8834, amends Chapter 50 of the Laws of 20 1993. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: The question 22 was, on page 95, I pointed out that it was 23 supporting -- it could support a not-for-profit 7947 1 corporation which would be in these areas that 2 are so hard hit when you could have like child 3 care assistance and other support programs. 4 I would say, though, it is not 5 just for IBM, or it isn't just for that area. 6 It could technically be used in any area of the 7 state for a not-for-profit corporation which 8 would support these areas that are in real 9 difficulty, and I might add, Mr. President, and 10 again not to over-emphasize this, but when you 11 start talking about Griffiss, mid-Hudson Valley 12 or the Binghamton area, Plattsburgh, Homeport, 13 we've got some very, very serious problems in 14 this state, and I commend the Governor and the 15 Assembly and the Senate for putting these 16 possibilities together, whereby projects would 17 be supported that are really needed. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 20 wonder if I could ask you a question. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I notice that 23 one of the -- on page 180, which deals with 7948 1 parole operations and the Division of Probation 2 and Correction Alternatives, it would appear 3 that there's an increase of some significance in 4 that category which I'm delighted to see, but my 5 question, if it's available to you and if it's 6 not, certainly I don't need to know now but what 7 portion of that increase would relate to the 8 city of New York? 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Approximately 10 8 million. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: $8 million. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Of the 16. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Of the 16? 14 Thank you very much. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 16 Last section, please. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: You want to 21 speak first? 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 23 would like to yield to Senator Spano. We both 7949 1 have an issue that we'd like to refer to in this 2 bill. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano. 4 SENATOR SPANO: Yes, I would 5 respectfully ask the Majority Leader if we can 6 lay this bill aside for a while until we can 7 check on some unresolved issues in certain 8 sections of the mental health budget. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: We'll lay this 11 bill aside temporarily. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 13 aside. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 15 1600, please? 16 THE PRESIDENT: 1600. That's on 17 Supplemental Calendar 1. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1600, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 20 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8339-C, 21 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 23 Explanation. 7950 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No, 3 explanation. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Oh, explanation 5 is requested. Senator Volker. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: There will be 8 order in the chamber. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 11 recall, I think, Senator Galiber may have a 12 question. 13 This is the aggravated unlicensed 14 operator bill, which was agreed on between the 15 Assembly and the Senate and the Governor 16 relating to a series of problems across the 17 state, and particularly in New York City, in 18 regards to people who have been driving and have 19 a series of summonses, and so forth, for 20 unlicensed operation. 21 As a result of numerous problems, 22 particularly in the city of New York, the two 23 Codes Committees of the Senate and Assembly held 7951 1 hearings in the City, and this bill which was 2 issued by the city of New York and has been 3 amended during the negotiations, represents the 4 basis for that negotiation. 5 The primary issue here is back, I 6 believe in 1986, if my recollection is correct, 7 we changed the law here that made driving with 8 out a license a violation rather than a crime as 9 it was previous to that, a misdemeanor. As a 10 result, those -- those violations went to, 11 rather than to criminal court were entered into 12 motor vehicle violation bureaus in New York City 13 and in the cities upstate. 14 What has happened is that some 15 people, because of the fact that it was not a 16 crime, have obtained hundreds of summonses for 17 unlicensed operation or for suspended licenses 18 and have just failed to appear. The result has 19 been chaos in certain cases. 20 What this bill does is, in 21 effect, to recriminalize unlicensed operation, 22 and what it provides is that, if you have a 23 previous arrest for driving with a suspended 7952 1 license and you are once again picked up, then 2 it is a misdemeanor. You are arrested and it's 3 a misdemeanor. You can be charged with a mis 4 demeanor and be taken into criminal court. Car 5 can be towed. If you do it -- aggravated 6 unlicensed operation, as I say, in the second 7 degree is a misdemeanor, and if you operate with 8 ten or more suspensions, then it can be a Class 9 E felony. 10 There are a number of provisions 11 in here relating to forfeiture, but the 12 forfeiture is only where a person has been 13 charged with ten or more suspensions, and they 14 are apprehended driving the car. At that time, 15 the car actually can be forfeited, in other 16 words, can be picked up, not only towed away but 17 actually can be forfeited to the authorities. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 19 Waldon. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 21 Would Senator Volker allow me to ask a 22 question? 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly, sure. 7953 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 2 Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, under 4 this bill, when someone has committed the 5 triggering violation the second time - 6 SENATOR VOLKER: M-m h-m-m. 7 SENATOR WALDON: -- is that a 8 photographable, fingerprintable misdemeanor? 9 SENATOR VOLKER: No. No, it's 10 not. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Clearly the 12 Class I felony would be. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: The felony would 14 be, but not the misdemeanor. 15 SENATOR WALDON: So - 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Traffic -- if I 17 might just, traffic misdemeanors are not finger 18 printed and photographed. 19 SENATOR WALDON: I understand 20 that, Senator. I'm trying to make a point. Is 21 there no way that we can run a regular check 22 automatically for people who create this 23 violation, because someone who is so remiss as 7954 1 to drive time and time again with a suspended 2 license to me, is indicating a mind set which 3 borders on other kinds of criminality and it 4 concerns me greatly. Maybe we ought to consider 5 doing something like that as an automatic 6 position in the bill. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, Senator, 8 you don't need the fingerprinting. The date of 9 birth and all the information is fed into the 10 computer. Of course, one of the problems here 11 that came up at the hearing is the issue of how 12 we handle these things through Motor Vehicles, 13 and I think as Assemblyman Lentol and myself 14 pointed out, there needs to be a better 15 procedure, I think particularly in New York 16 City, to deal with some of these violations and 17 one of the things that we are trying to do is to 18 make sure that that occurs. 19 Now, as I said, if repetitive 20 violations, then a felony would occur and at 21 that time, not only would you be brought in and 22 could you forfeit your car, but you would also, 23 of course, be arrested for a felony and 7955 1 automatically have your picture taken, and so 2 forth. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 6 section. 7 Excuse me, Senator Galiber. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator Volker, 9 these suspensions that you make reference to, 10 and I know that you've had hearings. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: You've 13 mentioned a couple times, but the suspensions 14 that you make reference to, sometimes we find 15 that if you do not answer a ticket, some 16 instances even parking violations - 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: -- that you can 19 have, if you check through your computer there 20 lies the suspension. There is -- it's 21 conceivable that if you don't answer a number of 22 traffic infractions that you could be put in 23 this category, is it possible with those types 7956 1 of suspension, that they could forfeit your 2 vehicle? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: The only way - 4 yeah, that's true, but you would have to have 5 ten, ten or more, and that's the reason, by the 6 way, in fact, some of the media people in their 7 zeal were telling us that some states you can 8 forfeit vehicles after one or two violations, 9 but, frankly, what they were talking about was 10 not forfeiture, they were talking about towing 11 vehicles. You can tow a vehicle now if you're 12 arrested the first time on a -- for a 13 misdemeanor, but that doesn't mean you forfeit 14 it. 15 There is a difference between 16 towing the vehicle and the person having to get 17 it back, and actually forfeiting it, and you're 18 right there, Senator, that's why this -- this 19 legislation provides that you must have ten or 20 more suspensions before a forfeiture can be 21 considered. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, let me 23 try to bring in the real world, in terms of the 7957 1 city of New York. Buffalo is pretty close to 2 the real world also, but I'm not quite sure the 3 congestion that exists in the city of New York 4 is the same as it is in Buffalo. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Not quite, 6 Senator. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: We have gotten 8 a sort of unwritten law or rule in the city of 9 New York where, before 11:00 o'clock, people 10 double park their cars, and certainly double 11 parking your car is an infraction and subject to 12 a possible suspension here. 13 Every now and then we've got 14 someone who wants to raise a little more money 15 in the city of New York may send out an informal 16 directive, and that is to ticket all the cars in 17 the block. It's conceivable with the parking 18 situation in the city of New York -- you're 19 shaking your head. Let me stop, because if 20 you're shaking your head. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, yeah, I 22 think you have to distinguish here between a 23 moving violation. Parking violation is not a 7958 1 moving violation; it is an infaction. The only 2 result of multiple parking tickets would be when 3 you go in to get your registration, you can't 4 register, but it does not trip a suspension of 5 your driver's license. The only thing that 6 trips a suspension of your driver's license are 7 moving violations. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: No, no, no, oh, 9 no, that's not so. If you do not have, we can 10 check it out, I don't want to be right or wrong 11 and I'm sure you would like to, but if you don't 12 answer some of these parking violations, those 13 tickets that are stuck on your car for double 14 parking and, if you don't respond, there's a 15 list of suspensions out there, you can be 16 subject to the suspension of your license if you 17 don't respond and a lot of cases that we - 18 SENATOR VOLKER: My counsel is 19 informing me that that's not correct, Senator. 20 He is informing me that the reason for that is 21 that the driver's license can't be suspended 22 because, if it's a truck or whatever, there is a 23 question as to who was driving the vehicle and, 7959 1 therefore, that's why it goes to the 2 registration. 3 The parking offenses deny you the 4 right to go back and get a new registration, but 5 not necessarily a driver's license. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. Let me try 7 again. Your counsel is saying to you that a 8 parking violation, I agree nobody has to show a 9 registration to get a parking ticket, that if 10 you do not pay those tickets that there is no 11 recordation anywhere of the suspension or of 12 your neglect to do this, but the only time, the 13 only time that there's a possible suspension of 14 your license is when there is a moving 15 violation. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: I think, 17 Senator, the only other -- let me just say what 18 I think; in other words, the fact that you have 19 multiple parking summonses does not trip a 20 suspension of your driver's license except it 21 just dawned on me, if you go to renew your 22 license then, and you -- you fill in the card, 23 you're supposed to write on the license, and if 7960 1 the -- if the computers catch the fact that you 2 have multiple parking summonses, it's very 3 possible that your license may be blocked, but 4 as far as actually suspending the license, in 5 other words when it's actually in your 6 possession, as I understand it, for a non 7 moving violation that does not occur. It only 8 occurs for moving violations. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. Let me ask 10 you maybe a different approach to it. Are you 11 suggesting -- are you telling us, not suggesting 12 to us, that in those categories of suspensions 13 when we hear the horror stories that someone is 14 driving with a suspended license, 10, 15, 20 15 times - 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Excuse 18 me, Senator Galiber, could you please address 19 the chair and use your microphone. The 20 stenographer is having problems picking your 21 voice up. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Are you really 23 having trouble or is he putting me on? Thank 7961 1 you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: As unused 3 to public speaking as we know you are. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 O.K. Let me try again. Senator, 7 when we hear of these horror stories of 8 suspensions, are you saying to us that there is 9 no other reason for the suspension than a moving 10 violation which might mean passing a red light, 11 someone saying you didn't stop at the 12 intersection, or numerous other violations which 13 might be misdemeanors or such? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: That's right, 15 Senator. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: And if a person 17 doesn't stop at a stop sign or a -- some other 18 moving violation - 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Red light. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Minor category, 21 not doing 90 miles an hour on a street in the 22 city of New York, that under this piece of 23 legislation that falls in the category, you're 7962 1 going to take that person's vehicle away from 2 him or her? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: If they ignore 4 the tickets and they then get suspensions, 5 that's true, but what the difference, though, I 6 think, and what we're talking about, Senator is, 7 that remember that parking summonses are a city, 8 a city fun ction. The city has no authority in 9 itself to take away licenses. The city -- the 10 city can report to the Motor Vehicle Bureau, but 11 they can not take or suspend licenses. The 12 authority to suspend licenses comes from the 13 state of New York, and it is because of moving 14 violations, failure to comply with those rules, 15 failure to comply or appear as far as moving 16 violations are concerned. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K. Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 Will Senator Volker yield to a 7963 1 question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 3 will you yield? Senator will yield. 4 Senator Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is a 6 good bill and does a lot of good things. I just 7 want to make sure I understand a couple 8 components of it. 9 What happens in the event that, 10 through no fault of their own, the driver misses 11 suspension notices? Frankly, in my practice the 12 19-, 20-year-old comes in and says, "I've moved 13 several times; my apartment has been shuffled. 14 I didn't have forwarding addresses," and they 15 end up with -- without having had real prior 16 notice. Frankly, in my own practice, I've had 17 some doubts about whether that's true, but that 18 is the story they come in and tell you anyway. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, Senator, 20 what you're referring to is, if you're driving a 21 car, and you are picked up and your license is 22 merely -- your license merely expires,is that 23 it? 7964 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Or there's a 2 notice of violation and they don't respond to it 3 and then there's a subsequent summons sent and 4 they don't respond to that, and they're 5 constantly moving. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Your license is 7 suspended and then, if you're picked up, then 8 you're subject to a charge of aggravated 9 unlicensed operation, which is a misdemeanor. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And that's 11 new under this bill? 12 SENATOR VOLKER: That's right. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What happens 14 if someone, for example, people will at times 15 pay their violations with a check, the check 16 bounces and that consequences -- that 17 constitutes a default which issues the summons 18 again; what happens in that instance? 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Not only issues 20 the summons, but you're also subject to other 21 penalties also. If you don't pay the fine, 22 Senator, you are subject to a suspension and, if 23 you're picked up for a subsequent -- if you're 7965 1 driving in the car and you're picked up for a 2 subsequent violation, you could be charged with 3 aggravated unlicensed operation as a 4 misdemeanor. 5 It's -- the way it was, by the 6 way before, previous to this, right now if that 7 happened, you could be charged with driving 8 without a license, and it would not be a 9 misdemeanor, but now it would be a misdemeanor. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So we've 11 upped that penalty from violation to 12 misdemeanor? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any 15 provision in here that provides a check on that 16 kind of situation? Is there anything that says 17 if there are extenuating circumstances, the 18 person can - 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, let me 20 point out to you, we're now going into court 21 with these misdemeanors. No longer do they go 22 to the motor vehicle adjudication bureaus, so 23 those are the kinds of things that would be 7966 1 heard by a judge. Just as they were before, by 2 the way. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But they were 4 violations before. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: 1986, I believe 6 it was; that's the way it was condition before 7 but you and I both know, if there were 8 circumstances that said that the person may have 9 had a problem or whatever, then that would be up 10 to the local authorities in this case or some 11 cases, I suppose, because it's a crime the D.A. 12 would be involved or the local prosecutor or 13 whatever, and would -- might recommend a 14 reduction to a violation or whatever, which 15 could be done, but technically speaking they are 16 picked up for a -- for a misdemeanor. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. The 18 second question and one of the things, and it 19 really ties in with one of the other things that 20 we've talked about here. Senator Goodman's 21 proposal to put the little red light runners, 22 protectors, on the lights in New York City. I 23 guess my question is, if we get to that stage, 7967 1 those would all be moving violations, you 2 wouldn't be stopped, you wouldn't be issued a 3 ticket, you'd get something in the mail at some 4 subsequent time that says, We took a picture of 5 you running your red light because of this 6 little birddog device perched up on top of the 7 red light. If we get to that stage, what 8 happens with those kinds of things? I'm just 9 trying to tie it in with what we've done here in 10 the last week. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I 12 really don't know. I -- I have -- I think we'll 13 deal with that when it comes. I'm not exactly 14 sure how you would do that, to tell you the 15 truth. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, I'm not 17 sure either. That's why - 18 SENATOR VOLKER: I have some 19 questions about that, but I suppose we'd have to 20 deal with it when the time comes but that 21 doesn't -- that's not really covered by this 22 bill; I have to tell you that. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, I'm 7968 1 just trying to tie it with something we've 2 done. 3 Just one final question, Mr. 4 President. On the -- on the seizure/forfeiture 5 portion of the bill - 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- is there 8 notice to the owner of the vehicle? I mean I 9 loan my vehicle to my brother, and he drives and 10 so the vehicle that's actually seized is mine 11 but I'm the technical owner. Do I get notice so 12 that we avoid any constitutional problem before 13 the forfeiture? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: One of the reas 15 ons that we took a little time in negotiating 16 the bill is to make sure that the procedure was 17 followed, and there is notice provisions within 18 24 hours, and also, by the way, if there's a 19 lien on the car, that was one of the issues that 20 has to be -- it is still in effect and by a bank 21 or whatever, and it has to be relieved and all 22 that sort of thing, and, by the way, we even 23 went so far as to check the latest forfeiture 7969 1 case which has just been heard by the Supreme 2 Court of the United States, yeah, the Supreme 3 Court to make sure we complied with all the 4 rules that are in that case which are much 5 tougher, and the old saying, Mr. President, it's 6 in here. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, Mr. 8 President, that's what triggered my inquiry. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: I understand. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: We were 11 talking about a forfeiture, turning a seizure 12 into a forfeiture, that notice provision becomes 13 critical. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah. Frankly, 15 one of the things that delayed this process a 16 little bit was that there was some additional - 17 some additional work done to check that case and 18 to make sure that we didn't pass a law and then 19 find out just after we passed it that there was 20 a problem with a case that just got heard by the 21 Supreme Court of the United States. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, just briefly on the bill, I will 7970 1 support this bill. I think this bill moves in 2 the right direction. 3 I commend the chairman of the 4 Codes Committee for pushing it forward and 5 working out a deal with the Assembly on this 6 because I think this is a bill that accomplishes 7 an awful lot and attacks a real significant 8 problem in the city of New York and, frankly, in 9 the city of Rochester as well. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 11 Volker. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 13 while I think of it, I also want to thank all 14 the people that worked on this bill, and there 15 was considerable, because of the -- because of 16 the considerable publicity in the city of New 17 York, some of the newspaper articles, frankly, I 18 think bordered on hysteria, but I think there 19 was a lot of people that cooperated and 20 particularly, I think, Senator Levy, who, 21 chairman of Transportation in this house who was 22 extremely cooperative on an issue that kind of 23 overlapped the jurisdiction of my committee and 7971 1 he was very gracious, and his people were very 2 cooperative, and I wanted to put that on the 3 record because I think it's very important. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 5 Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 7 President, just briefly on the bill. I'm glad 8 that Senator Volker sponsored this bill. It 9 came to my attention from the Buffalo police 10 that this has become a major problem for them, 11 recurring drivers with licenses that are 12 suspended and nothing they could do about it, 13 and these people continue to drive and they have 14 a long list of moving violations and they said 15 it's a real problem and they were looking for 16 somebody to do something to address this, 17 because in the Traffic Violations Bureau they 18 didn't have any recourse on what to do about 19 this because they'd just give them another 20 driving without a license violation and they'd 21 continue to drive. 22 So I'm standing to support the 23 bill, and I'm glad Senator Volker brought this 7972 1 bill forward. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Senator Present. Senator 14 Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we go 16 regular order starting with Calendar 1621. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Regular 18 order beginning with Calendar 1621 on 19 Supplemental Calendar Number 2, page 1. 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1621, substituted earlier today, by member of 23 the Assembly Harenberg, Assembly Bill Number 7973 1 6894-A, an act to amend the Executive Law. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 5 Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, would 7 Senator Johnson yield, please? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 9 would you yield? 10 Senator will yield. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, this 14 bill, as I recollect as I'm trying to locate 15 it, provides or directs or mandates, if you 16 will, a program to train police officers and 17 others in how to assist elderly people with 18 their security needs; is that a fair 19 representation? 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, not - 21 not precisely. It really refers to the ability 22 of the training officers who have the ability to 23 recognize senior abuse when they come upon it, 7974 1 and to take proper action at that time, and to 2 be able to provide some advice about how seniors 3 can get help with a particular problem, and so 4 forth. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 6 Johnson, if you would be so good as to continue 7 to yield. And you direct the division of the 8 aging, I believe is together -- or the state 9 Office of the Aging together with the Division 10 of the State Police to work up a program for 11 that sensitivity training of police officers, 12 State Police officers, is that right? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's more or 14 less it, Senator. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 16 I think of that's a laudable goal. Let me tell 17 you what concerns me, though, and that is that 18 no money is provided and, when I look at the 19 fiscal implication in your memorandum, I see 20 costs shall be covered by existing appropria 21 tions to affected agencies for such purpose. 22 Now, Senator, can you tell me 23 whether there is any appropriation specifically 7975 1 to either the Division of the State Police or 2 the Office of the Aging to run this particular 3 program? 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, the 5 Assembly sponsor who developed this bill assured 6 me that, within the training budget of the 7 Municipal Police Training Council there is money 8 for training, and this would just be another 9 course they give. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 15 President, just very briefly on the bill. 16 Obviously, this is a good bill 17 but I think that it would be a better bill and, 18 frankly, Senator, a more honest bill if it 19 provided some money because then I think it 20 would be much more likely to achieve the very 21 laudable goals that you have in mind. 22 I mean I think it's obvious that 23 this is a program that would require money. 7976 1 You'd want people who would give instructions. 2 You'd want State Police officers, other police 3 officers to spend time going to courses while 4 they're doing this; somebody else may have to 5 take over their function or role or their 6 duties. We'd have to pay that person, maybe 7 have to pay overtime. There clearly is going to 8 be costs associated with this program and, if 9 it's a good program, we ought to pay for it, and 10 I find it unfortunate that we're unwilling to 11 provide the monies for these programs. 12 Senator, you just can't do these 13 things and expect that somehow or other the 14 money is going to be found, or it's going to 15 appear or there's going to be some magic. 16 That's why, in reference to another bill of 17 yours, I talked about monopoly money or phony 18 money, and I think in some respects we have the 19 same thing here. 20 Let's put some money behind what 21 is a good program. You wouldn't have to be 22 embarrassed before your constituents if you said 23 I provided monies for this sort of a program, 7977 1 but to provide the program without the money 2 means that it's going to be a very poor program 3 and that's unfortunate, because it's a good idea 4 that you have. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 6 might respond by saying that it's not 7 contemplated that every officer will be required 8 to take this course. This is something for 9 officers whose particular duty would be to deal 10 with crimes against the elderly, and they would 11 develop the expertise through this training and 12 certification program and, yes, it is alleged 13 that there is money in the training program to 14 cover this. People would be taking these 15 courses and other courses, but essentially this 16 course would be able to be funded in the budget 17 ary allotments that are there for those officers 18 who would be required to take this course. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 7978 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Before the Secretary goes on for 7 the next bill, as many of you might have noticed 8 there is a problem with the air conditioning and 9 the lights. It's affecting not only the Senate 10 but the Assembly, the Capitol building in 11 general and Albany in general as well. We're 12 going to attempt, apologies to the New York 13 Cablevision up in the gallery, we're on 14 television lights and this gallery has been for 15 several years. We're going to attempt to lower 16 the lighting to general lighting, taking away 17 the TV lights. If that proves to be too low to 18 do business, we'll find out in a moment but in 19 any event, we'll try to lower the -- lower the 20 lighting to what used to be called general 21 lighting, and see if we can operate considering 22 that the air conditioning isn't working very 23 well. 7979 1 Secretary will continue to read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1622, substituted earlier today, by member of 4 the Assembly Friedman, Assembly Bill Number 5 5320-B, an act to amend the Tax Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1623, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 18 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7937-B, 19 an act to amend the Election Law. 20 SENATOR ESPADA: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Who 22 requested the explanation? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 7980 1 Espada. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 3 Nozzolio, Senator Espada requested an 4 explanation. 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, thank 6 you, Mr. President. 7 Yes, this bill is an effort to 8 change current law to make it easier for people 9 to register to vote by changing the language 10 required at voter registration to make it, what 11 we'd like to label more plain language. 12 The affidavit language is changed 13 to make it apparent to the applicant who seeks 14 to register to vote that they have to attest to 15 certain things, of which are as follows: That 16 they are a citizen of the United States, that 17 they have lived in the county, city or village 18 for at least 30 days prior to the election and 19 that they meet all the election requirements of 20 registration in New York State; also that they 21 are signing this application for voter 22 registration in their own hand and that, should 23 they make any false statements of fact, that 7981 1 they would, in fact, be subjected to penalties 2 for perjury. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 4 Espada. 5 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, 6 on the bill. 7 New York State has one of the 8 lowest voter participation rates in the United 9 States of America. In my view, we should be 10 extending suffrage rights to immigrants, 11 particularly legal permanent residents who work, 12 pay taxes and enrich our communities in all of 13 our cities throughout this great state. Instead 14 of focusing our energies on punitive measures, 15 measures that, in essence and in practicality, 16 decrease the voters in this state as this 17 measure does, we should be broadening the voter 18 base. We should be expanding upon the meaning 19 of what it is to be a, quote, "citizen of the 20 state," end of quote. 21 We have had a tradition in this 22 country that goes way back when we did allow 23 immigrants new to our shores to participate. We 7982 1 have had a climate of fostering a tradition of 2 voting in these communities as is presently done 3 in school board elections in New York City where 4 a 20 percent of the immigrant population make up 5 the total voting participation in those 6 elections. 7 So this fails to expand the 8 vote... the base of voters. It also goes in the 9 wrong direction. I think we've had ample 10 opportunity during this session to really bring 11 real meaningful change in electoral reform. 12 I've asked my colleague to involve me in that, 13 in a cooperative way. That has not happened. 14 Again, this goes in the wrong direction and we 15 urge its defeat. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 17 section. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Sorry. 21 Senator Dollinger. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll be 23 brief, Mr. President. 7983 1 I share Senator Espada's 2 concerns. However, I'm going to vote in favor 3 of this bill, as I did with the last bill. I 4 think its one of those itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny 5 tiny-winy steps on the road to election reform. 6 There are so many other big things, and Senator 7 Espada mentioned them, that we have to do - 8 ballot access, implement "motor voter", do a 9 bunch of things, campaign financing reforms, 10 campaign finance limitations. 11 I hope that that giant step that 12 I talked about, that big step that I talked 13 about, that we would take to actually embark 14 upon true election and true ballot access reform 15 that we'll be prepared to take that if not at 16 the end of this session then, please, in the 17 next one. 18 I'll vote in favor, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7984 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Negatives 5 keep their hands up, please, particularly in the 6 subdued lighting. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 1623 are 9 Senators Espada, Galiber, Gonzalez, Leichter, 10 Montgomery and Waldon. Ayes 52, nays 6. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1624, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 15 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7878, 16 an act to amend the Election Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7985 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Jones and Dollinger in 5 the negative, please, on the last bill. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Did you just 8 take up 1624? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Yes. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we 11 reconsider the vote by which it passed, please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 13 will call the roll on reconsideration. 14 (The Secretary called the roll on 15 reconsideration. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 18 is before the house, Senator. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 20 please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Bill is 22 laid aside. 23 Regular order. 7986 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1625, substituted earlier today, by member of 3 the Assembly Grannis, Assembly Bill Number 4 7105-C, Public Health Law and the General 5 Business Law. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 7 Explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 9 Tully, Senator Stachowski has requested an 10 explanation. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 This bill amends the Public 14 Health Law and the General Business Law to 15 afford more protection against the misuse of 16 pre-need funeral monies. This bill passed 17 earlier in the week in the Assembly by a vote of 18 116 to 27. It's a departmental bill, and it has 19 three-way agreement. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 21 Stavisky. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 23 will the sponsor yield for a question? 7987 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 2 will you yield? 3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 6 Stavisky. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. Tully, in 8 certain religions, especially in the Orthodox 9 Jewish community, there is need for accurate 10 information on burial requirements because there 11 is the need for the funeral to take place very 12 swiftly after the death. Are you aware of that? 13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I am, Mr. 14 President. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator Tully, 16 does this legislation have any provision for a 17 central registry and information registry where 18 a funeral director or a family could call a hot 19 line, an 800 number in order to determine 20 whether there were any specific arrangements 21 that had been made? Is there such a registry 22 provided for in this legislation? 23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 7988 1 the answer to that question is no. It was put 2 on the table and taken off the table, and we 3 were unable to get agreement on that particular 4 provision. 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Would it not 6 be a stronger bill, a more effective bill, if 7 that provision were incorporated in the 8 legislation for the reasons that I've stated? 9 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 10 obviously, we thought it was something that 11 should be incorporated in the bill, or we 12 wouldn't have advanced it. Unfortunately, as I 13 said, we could not get agreement on that 14 particular portion of the bill; but I can tell 15 my distinguished colleague, Senator Stavisky, 16 that hopefully in the future we will get that 17 agreement after this bill is passed, and we 18 could conceivably have a chapter amendment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator? 20 Last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2 - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 23 Padavan. 7989 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: I rise to 2 explain my vote. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Again, 11 would the negatives please keep their hands 12 raised longer than usual. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: May I explain 14 my vote, Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 16 Padavan to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. I can understand the excellent 19 motivation that is the foundation upon which 20 this bill is built, but it has such glaring 21 flaws in it that I think we've got to make sure 22 that, even if it does pass, that we give 23 ourselves the opportunity to correct it. 7990 1 I had someone call me the other 2 day to outline an experience that I think 3 illustrates that fact. An elderly woman had 4 died, children were out of town. They came 5 quickly to their home; they arranged for the 6 burial with a local undertaker, and then in the 7 course of looking through this deceased woman's 8 papers, they came upon documents that showed she 9 had paid for a burial. If they had not found 10 those papers, the money given to that funeral 11 home would have been lost. No one would have 12 known about it. I think that's a glaring 13 problem. It has to be addressed before we allow 14 this proposal to go forward. 15 I vote in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 1625 are 19 Senators Bruno, Cook, Daly, Farley, Galiber, 20 Hoffmann, Lack, Libous, Masiello, Nolan, 21 Nozzolio, Onorato, Pataki, Sears, Seward, 22 Skelos, Solomon, Spano, Stachowski, Stavisky, 23 Velella and Wright; also Senator Dollinger, also 7991 1 Senator Volker, also Senator Kuhl, also Senator 2 Johnson. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32, nays 5 26. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 7 Hannon. 8 SENATOR HANNON: I ask unanimous 9 consent to abstain from voting. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 11 Hannon will abstain on this one. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Regular order. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1636, by member of the Assembly Singer, Assembly 17 Bill Number 2951, General - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Lay it 19 aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1637, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Bill Number 8508-A city of Mount Vernon 23 to discontinue the use of certain city lands. 7992 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 2 Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 4 section. Home rule message at the desk. 5 Last section. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there an 7 explanation asked for on this bill, Mr. 8 President? 9 SENATOR GALIBER: Yeah. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 11 Present, in connection with Calendar 1637, I 12 believe Senator Dollinger has requested an 13 explanation. It's an Assembly bill with no 14 Senate - 15 SENATOR VELELLA: I'll explain it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Oh, 17 Senator Velella. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: This is a bill 19 to convert some park land in -- Senator, this is 20 a bill to convert some park land in the city of 21 Mount Vernon. The land is going to be used for 22 developing of a shopping center, restaurant and 23 a shopping mall to help increase the financial 7993 1 problems that Mount Vernon has. 2 There is a substitute of equal 3 value and equal acreage being made by the city, 4 and there are some ball fields there which are 5 being not only replaced at the new location but 6 actually enhanced by this transfer of land. 7 It's a bill that was put in by Assemblyman 8 Pretlow. Since Senator Galiber and I share 9 Mount Vernon, we both know the importance to the 10 economic viability of the city. 11 It has a home rule message and 12 it's a very positive step forward for the city 13 of Mount Vernon and we support it. I believe 14 Senator Galiber might want to comment if there's 15 any further question. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Is there anyone 19 from Mount Vernon opposed to this? Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: I have a -- as 23 you've heard me mention quite often, I have a 7994 1 portion of Westchester County, more importantly 2 I guess a section of Mount Vernon. 3 Now, last evening for those of 4 you who say, well, maybe there's reversals here, 5 in terms of the bill that Senator Padavan and 6 Senator Gold had, which I supported, there is 7 more than a fragile distinction, there's a 8 volcanic difference between the bill last 9 evening and the one this evening. 10 First off, we have the mayor of 11 Mount Vernon in support as we did the mayor of 12 the city of New York last evening, but the 13 difference is that we're not -- we're swapping 14 land. We're building a commercial enterprise, 15 that's true. We have the support of the Mount 16 Vernon legislators, I believe; I'm not quite 17 sure how Senator Oppenheimer feels about this, 18 but instinctively I get a sense that she's in 19 favor. So we have all the legislators. We have 20 the legislator from -- the Assemblyperson from 21 Mount Vernon who supported this piece of 22 legislation for the same reasons that I'm 23 supporting it tonight. 7995 1 Park land -- who said -- is that 2 the gentleman from Queens? 3 SENATOR ONORATO: I said 4 explanation is satisfactory. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm a bit 6 confused here now. I know they did a horrible 7 job on reapportionment; I'm not quite sure part 8 of -- did you get into Mount Vernon also like I 9 did? Are you still out in Queens? 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Everything 11 else. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: But on a 13 serious note, Mr. President, there is a vast 14 difference in these two pieces of legislation. 15 It has almost unanimous consent here. For those 16 of you who can recall perhaps a few nights ago, 17 a few weeks ago, I've lost track as most of us 18 had, Senator Larkin had a piece of legislation 19 dealing with the IDA, and I'd asked a question 20 then, of whether or not this bill would exclude 21 the possibilities of Mount Vernon going forward 22 in terms of their project. 23 The project that I did not 7996 1 specifically make reference to was this project, 2 and I was told then that the 60-day opportunity 3 for grandfathering was there. This piece of 4 legislation I support. To the best of my 5 knowledge all the legislators representing Mount 6 Vernon support it. 7 Therefore, I would ask the 8 sponsor if he would be willing to move the piece 9 of legislation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 19 is passed. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call 21 up - 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 15... 7997 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 4 Calendar Number 1529. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 6 will read Calendar Number 1529, which is on 7 Calendar 1529, regular calendar, page 29, on the 8 bottom, Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1529, substituted earlier, by member of the 11 Assembly Bragman, Assembly Bill Number 1032-E. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: An act to 14 amend the Environmental Conservation Law. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Excuse 18 me, Senator Stafford. We -- we have a message 19 if Senator Present would request -- Senator 20 Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 22 accept the message. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Motion of 7998 1 Senator Present to accept the message of 2 necessity from the Governor. All those in favor 3 aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Contrary nay: 6 (There was no response. ) 7 The message is accepted. 8 Senator Stafford. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. I'll be -- try to be very clear and 11 also very brief. I also want you to know we've 12 asked that the air conditioning be turned back 13 on for this. 14 Last year we considered this 15 subject, and I want to compliment and express my 16 appreciation to the Governor's office, to the 17 Assembly and to the Senate who negotiated this 18 bill. It's accepted by those who have worked on 19 it, and you'll note that there was a message of 20 necessity and it has been passed by the 21 Assembly. 22 My friends, I want to emphasize, 23 this is a bear management bill. It is what I 7999 1 explained last year except there is a 2 difference. As far as using dogs to hunt, a 3 sportsman could apply to the Department for a 4 separate permit to use a dog only when proof of 5 damage to property or threat to public health 6 and safety is presented to the Department and, 7 two, only when the Department has determined 8 that no other alternative is feasible. 9 I also explained the detail that 10 the Department and the sportsmen have gone, to 11 show you the detail. Any dogs that are used 12 must be trained and they must be trained before 13 hunting season, and there are those who are 14 qualified to either accept these dogs or not 15 accept them. When there is training, there are 16 no weapons used at all and, of course, 17 obviously, bear are not taken. 18 I would say again that the 19 sportsmen in our state, I feel, are a fine 20 group. I'd ask that you respect them, as I 21 think any of you who are concerned about 22 hunting, they respect your concerns, but this 23 bill is, I think, a sensible bill. I think it's 8000 1 been well thought out. I think the sportsmen 2 have worked very hard and have compromised and I 3 think that the Governor's office, the Governor 4 and the Assembly and the Senate have a very, 5 very sensible piece of legislation here. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 9 Oppenheimer. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Needless to 11 say, I am very upset with this "E" print. We 12 had an "A", a "B", a "C", a "D" and then 13 suddenly in this "E" print, we see something 14 that we had been given assurances would not be 15 in the bill suddenly come out in the bill, and 16 that is the use of dogs to go after bear in this 17 case. We have a new category, it's not 18 generally just hunting bear. Now we have 19 something called the nuisance bear. 20 The nuisance bear has not been a 21 problem in the state of New York. It just seems 22 to have occurred in the past few months. The 23 DEC has -- has concocted a nuisance bear. 8001 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Could I ask 2 you a question, please? Would the Senator 3 yield? 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 5 certainly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Would the 7 Senator yield? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: I said at 9 the beginning of the session I never 10 interrupted. I'm afraid I'm not upholding my 11 reputation very well, but would you believe that 12 we've had problems with nuisance bear in 13 Ellenburg, in the Saranac area, in the Peru 14 area, in the Westchester area, and it's a very 15 serious problem. A bear will go in and 16 completely ruin a building, and I just wondered 17 if you knew that that was a problem. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 19 Senator Stafford. I -- I have been aware that 20 there have been bear that have caused damage to 21 farmers and to other mostly rural buildings. 22 However, there are alternative methods for 23 getting rid of these bears that have caused - 8002 1 caused damage. We never heard the word 2 "nuisance bear" until just now. It was 3 certainly never in prior legislation, certainly 4 not before, not prior to last year. I had never 5 heard of the term, and it's sort of like this - 6 this has just been discovered as a problem. 7 The lack of credibility with the 8 -- the people that were pushing this issue, 9 most of the -- the human societies and the 10 people involved fighting cruelty to animals have 11 been assured that dogs would not be included in 12 this year's bill and, as I said, it suddenly 13 crops up in the "E" print, and it is -- well, I 14 think many of us feel that it's just - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 16 Farley. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- it is 18 something that we don't have the kind of 19 cooperation we had thought was there. 20 I -- I was considering going 21 along with the "A", "B", "C", "D" print even 22 though I was upset about the selling of bear 23 parts because we know that, due to the -- the 8003 1 valuable gall bladders of bear which are 2 considered a epicurean delight in Japanese 3 cooking, that there's a lot of poaching that 4 goes on, and illegal shooting of bear, but I 5 was -- I was thinking of going along with that, 6 but I am very, very affronted by this sudden 7 appearance of -- of this "E" print and of dogs 8 being introduced in the legislation where we had 9 been assured it would not be. 10 I will be voting no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 12 Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Having 14 represented Hamilton County for 16 years -- it's 15 now in Senator Stafford's district under 16 reapportionment -- and having grown up there, 17 let me just tell you this is a significant bill 18 and something needs to be done about bear 19 management. 20 Literally a bear broke the front 21 door and the glass in the door and literally 22 tried to get into the home of my aunt in Indian 23 Lake. I was camping at Louie Lake campsite when 8004 1 the bears came through there at night ravaging 2 the place and by morning it was empty, and there 3 wasn't a site vacant because it terrorized 4 everybody there. Some of these bears have come 5 out of their natural habitat and started 6 poaching for garbage and food and among 7 civilians. They have to be managed. Quite 8 frankly, they're terrorizing, these renegade if 9 you want to call it, renegade bears, and 10 something has to be done. 11 This is an agreed-upon bill, one 12 that has passed the other house, and there's a 13 message of necessity there. It is -- I realize 14 what everybody is saying, but until you have 15 faced and seen a black bear come right up into 16 your campground or something like that, believe 17 me, they can be a terror, and I urge the 18 supported of this bill. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 20 would Senator Farley yield, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator, 22 would you yield? Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, as I 8005 1 understand it, you would only be authorized to 2 use dogs after you get a license to hunt down a 3 nuisance bear, is that correct? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: That's as I 5 understand it, yes. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, Senator, 7 and I probably am showing my ignorance because I 8 haven't gone hunting, but let's say there's a 9 nuisance bear, I go and I find the bear try to 10 break into my house. I go to the DEC office; I 11 say, "I've got a nuisance bear, he tried to 12 break into my house; please give me a permit. I 13 got some dogs, they're trained," and so on. I 14 get the permit; then I go off hunting for that 15 bear. I'm authorized to do that under this 16 bill; is that correct? 17 SENATOR FARLEY: I -- Senator 18 Stafford says it is. I'm not an expert on this 19 bill. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: You have to 21 get a permit. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: You have to get 23 a permit. 8006 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: But now I go 2 out, I've got my dogs and they're yelping, they 3 pick up the scent of the bear. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I suggest you 5 get somebody else to do it for you, Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Very good. 8 Let me tell you - 9 That was a very good retort, so 10 there, Senator Farley, after that -- after that 11 nuisance bear with his trusted dog, you're right 12 I'm back watching television. I'm a lot safer 13 there. I'll watch one of those geographic 14 specials about hunting lions or something really 15 exciting. But you're off hunting that bear with 16 your dogs, and they pick up a scent and off 17 they go, and lo and behold, they're after a 18 bear. 19 How do you know that's the 20 nuisance bear? Maybe it's a totally different 21 bear? Do you then go up and get it, do you go up 22 and ask the bear, "Are you the nuisance bear; 23 did you break into my house?" 8007 1 SENATOR FARLEY: That's why I 2 suggested you get somebody else to do it. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: If Senator 4 Leichter would yield, I would point this out. 5 Once again, I'm not going to say you're making 6 light of it. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Nor am I going 8 to say you're loaded for bear again. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: This is very, 10 very tightly regulated, Senator, and it would 11 only be if at Louie Lake there were a group of 12 bears really causing problems if there was a 13 bear, I'd have to tell this story. 14 I was driving in Ellenburg, and I 15 heard that there were a lot of bears around 16 Ellenburg and I grew up in the area, fellow 17 right up there grew up in the area also and two 18 250-, 300-pound bear went bounding across the 19 road, and I took notes, I took notes, believe 20 me, and it was right in a relatively populous 21 area, it was right at Dannemora Crossing right 22 by -- that's the suburb of Ellenburg. 23 Now, if you would have to go and 8008 1 explain to the Department that you had the 2 problem with these bears, they would check it 3 out now. Also they have to make sure that 4 there's no other alternative than to go and get 5 those bear, and we do share with you that we 6 think that it's serious enough that we should be 7 able to do this, and the sportsmen should be 8 able to do something about the situation because 9 I'm sure at Wadhams, you wouldn't want to have 10 any severe problems. 11 But interestingly enough, I would 12 share this with you, in that beautiful Lake 13 Champlain valley, that you are so fortunate to 14 indeed be, the bear are on one level. Now, if 15 you go in the higher property, believe it or 16 not, get up in the cliffs and the palisades, 17 there are a few, but it's at a higher level; it 18 isn't down by the lake. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 20 let me just share with you, I was driving south 21 of Wadhams, an area you well know on the way to 22 Westport, this is last year, and crossing right 23 in front of me is a mother bear and some cubs. 8009 1 I don't know if it was a nuisance bear. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: It's not a 3 nuisance bear. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: So there's 5 bears all over, and there's no question some of 6 them are nuisance bears, and I'm maybe trying to 7 make light. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: But I'm 10 puzzled by once you're out hunting, you're out 11 hunting for that one bear or maybe a couple 12 bears that have been causing problems, and the 13 dogs go after another bear. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Would the 15 Senator yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Would you 17 yield, Senator? 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would ask 20 you again, and again I'd like to make this 21 point, only when proof of damage to property or 22 threat to public health and safety is presented 23 to the Department. You know, the mother bear 8010 1 with the cubs, I just share this with you, not 2 making light of it, don't you ever go near a 3 bear that has any cubs. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: That's -- I'm 6 just helping you. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I won't go 8 near a bear, period, with or without dogs. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 10 Sears. Senator Stavisky. 11 SENATOR SEARS: Oh, I thought she 12 had the floor. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: No, 14 Senator Sears has the floor. 15 SENATOR SEARS: I'd like to try 16 to clear up some of the misconceptions perhaps 17 of this bill. 18 Last year, as you know, on a 19 close vote, the bill passed. It would have 20 allowed the hunting of bear with dogs. This 21 bill prohibits that. That was the reason the 22 Governor vetoed the bill last year, because the 23 pressure was so great from those people that 8011 1 disagreed that he vetoed the bill. 2 This bill is a deer management 3 bill. It does not really allow you to hunt bear 4 with dogs, trained or otherwise. What it does 5 allow you to do is, if a bear is causing some 6 trouble, he isn't going to cause that trouble 7 today; he's going to come back two or three 8 days, he's going to break into your garbage 9 can. 10 If you have that situation, 11 especially if you have children around, you go 12 to the game warden, you tell him you have a 13 nuisance bear and you show him some proof of it, 14 he can come up and look at the area. There's 15 ways you can show him where the bear tracks 16 are. I know this because I've had nuisance bear 17 around my place up in the Adirondacks, and, if I 18 can show him where there's been some damage 19 done, he'll issue me a permit. That permit 20 doesn't -- I don't have to go get my dog that's 21 trained to hunt bear. I get my .30.06 and, if 22 I've got the permit, I've got a nuisance bear, 23 when he comes around again in my back yard I 8012 1 shoot him. 2 I don't need a dog to chase him 3 down, nor does this bill say that, if you have a 4 nuisance bear you've got to have a dog to track 5 him down or tree him and shoot him with a 6 permit. It doesn't say that at all. All it 7 says is that it's a bear management bill and, if 8 we don't pass it, the Department of 9 Environmental Conservation has no authority to 10 manage the deer in this state or the bear in 11 this state, the same way they manage the deer 12 herd. It's how many bear can you have in an 13 area where the food is so you don't get an 14 imbalance. That's why the Department of Cons... 15 Environmental Conservation sometimes wants to 16 have party permits. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Excuse 18 me. Senator Waldon. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 20 might I interrupt for a couple of brief 21 questions? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 23 Sears, will you yield to Senator Waldon for a 8013 1 question? 2 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 4 Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, it was 6 raised earlier, causes me concern, and I want to 7 have the air cleared, that there are poachers 8 going, pursuing bear, hunting bear for the 9 purpose of taking various parts. 10 SENATOR SEARS: That's correct. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Is that your 12 experience in regard to these nuisance bears? 13 SENATOR SEARS: There was, in 14 various parts of the country, bear poachers who 15 were out shooting bear and selling certain bear 16 parts because certain people like to eat certain 17 parts of a bear, O.K.? That was a problem. I 18 think there was a sting operation in the 19 Berkshires where they caught these people doing 20 that and, of course, they were -- they were 21 fined and prosecuted. 22 This bill does address this, in 23 the sense that it gives the Department of 8014 1 Environmental Conservation, as part of the bear 2 management program, the right to stop this or to 3 regulate it. Some of it, if you shoot a bear 4 legally, not poaching, be it during the bear 5 season, if you -- the Department can give you 6 permission, I believe, to get rid of those parts 7 or sell them to people who might want them. 8 Those would be legally taken bear. 9 You get into the poaching thing, 10 that's different because it is not legal to 11 shoot a bear out of season. They have, you 12 know, regular big game seasons in the 13 Adirondacks as they do in other parts of the 14 state, so this would give the Department a 15 handle on that to stop the illegal taking of 16 bear solely for the purpose of selling certain 17 parts to certain people who might want them. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 19 may I continue? May I continue? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Go 21 ahead. 22 SENATOR WALDON: So, Senator, if 23 I understand you correctly, you're saying to 8015 1 your personal knowledge you have no experience 2 with poaching per se regarding the issue that 3 we're discussing here this evening? 4 SENATOR SEARS: I'm not -- oh, 5 where I come from? 6 SENATOR WALDON: Where you come 7 from and where you have experience with nuisance 8 bears, you have not experienced people coming 9 through sweeping and poaching bear in your 10 area. 11 SENATOR SEARS: For the purposes 12 that you mentioned? 13 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 14 SENATOR SEARS: Not -- there are 15 people in my area who are poachers, they're just 16 cheating hunting deer, bear and other wild 17 life. Not necessarily, no. I don't know of any 18 far-reaching poaching that's going on regarding 19 bear parts. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Last question, 21 if I may, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Go ahead, 23 Senator. 8016 1 SENATOR WALDON: Despite the bear 2 management bill that we're considering tonight, 3 and despite all the other laws that we have on 4 the books in New York State regarding bears, 5 there's no prohibition if a bear were to come at 6 you or to endanger the life or property of 7 someone restricting you from shooting that bear, 8 to your knowledge, is there? 9 SENATOR SEARS: Well, let me 10 explain it this way. The answer to your 11 question is, if a bear is coming at you, 12 attacking you in season, out of season or if 13 your child is out in the yard back of the woods 14 rather, this has happened at least once in a 15 situation that I was in, bear love marshmallows, 16 in the summertime kids like to toast 17 marshmallows over a fire. 18 Well, if a bear comes out of the 19 woods and if you could hear him or you see him, 20 naturally you're going to grab the child and get 21 him back in. In the event that there was - 22 whatever the situation was, sure, the law says 23 if you got a nuisance bear and in this case that 8017 1 would be a nuisance bear, and the law says that 2 you're supposed to go to the game warden and get 3 a permit before you can shoot that nuisance 4 bear, in the situation I just described don't 5 take the -- don't waste the time to go to the 6 game warden, go in and get the .30.06 and if 7 that bear gets too close to that child you don't 8 scare him away, you shoot him, and no game 9 warden would arrest you for that. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. President. 12 SENATOR SEARS: In conclusion, 13 Mr. President, I think that this bill may have 14 been misinterpreted. We purposely changed this 15 bill because we knew the Governor was opposed to 16 the actual use of dogs to hunt bear, and we've 17 only -- Senator Stafford has quite well 18 explained those conditions where you had a 19 nuisance bear, you'd have get a permit. If 20 there was a trained dog that you had trained and 21 at a different time that perhaps could locate 22 that bear and, of course, you might understand 23 something else, bear can become rabid just like 8018 1 anything else, and with the possibility of 2 rabies heading north, it's coming in from all 3 over with mostly raccoons. They could bite a 4 bear, a bear could be rabid. You'd know it by 5 the way they act, and you might want a bear to 6 chase or a dog to chase one of those down in an 7 emergency situation, because the quicker you 8 could locate that bear, the quicker that you 9 might be able to tranquilize him to find out if 10 he was rabid. 11 So I think that this is a good 12 bear management bill. It solves the problem for 13 those who are opposed to the hunting of bear 14 with dogs only in supreme situations such as the 15 -- that I mentioned. But it is a management 16 bill that, if we have don't pass it, the 17 department has no control over how bear can 18 legally be taken to balance the herd. 19 So it's very important -- it's a 20 very important tool to DEC. I hope you will 21 support the bill this year. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 23 Stavisky. 8019 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 2 I don't pretend to have any expertise in this 3 field, and I wonder in those who are advocating 4 this would answer some questions. 5 In areas where hunters in season 6 do take bear, is the bear ever taken for food? 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: You mean there 9 is a practice of grilling bearburgers - 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- in parts of 12 this state? 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, bear in 14 steak, bear in a roast. I would again, we're 15 talking publicly, and I'm very serious, I would 16 urge anyone who eats a bear that's taken, that 17 they have a veterinarian check the carcass 18 because I have known some people to become 19 sick. I ask that question in all seriousness 20 because one of the reasons - 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't care 22 for it. It's relatively stringy and quite 23 coarse but I've eaten it. 8020 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Medium rare 2 bear? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, not medium 4 rare. 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well done 6 bear? 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well done. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator, 9 couldn't the objective be accomplished without 10 issuance of permits to the hunters, but rather a 11 simple piece of legislation which, in the event 12 of a renegade bear or whatever term you wish to 13 use, that the taking of the bear to protect 14 human life and safety could be done by 15 Department of Environmental Conservation 16 employees who, therefore, would have no special 17 ax to grind with regard to claiming that this is 18 a renegade bear and, in the last analysis, they 19 really want to kill this bear for the purpose of 20 taking the claws, the paws or parts for sale, 21 commercially? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well - 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Wouldn't it be 8021 1 wiser to authorize the DEC, which is an official 2 state agency? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would first 4 say that the area is vast in this state, any 5 areas where you can hunt bear. First, I think 6 it would be difficult to give the Department of 7 Environmental Conservation that responsibility. 8 It's not that easy to -- to catch these 9 animals. They come at different times in the 10 night, different times of the day and you know, 11 I just want to emphasize -- emphasize this 12 again. Many of my friends who hunt, and all of 13 us I hope that hunt, for the most part are very 14 humane, very, very decent, decent individuals, 15 and I'm just trying to keep this within the 16 framework of realism. They aren't -- I say 17 they're really more humane than -- and again I'm 18 not criticizing, but when you look in the 19 industry where animals end up as food for us, 20 it's quite a -- quite an experience. I passed a 21 humane slaughter bill back here in about 1967. 22 The humane society was very involved throughout 23 New York State. 8022 1 These are very -- these people 2 understand the out of doors. They don't, you 3 know, slaughter as people would think. It is 4 very important that we manage this herd and, if 5 you get four or five, that's a new term, 6 renegade bears in an area, it may be, don't 7 forget now, let me emphasize before anyone gets 8 a permit, proof of damage to property, public 9 health, safety and no other alternative can be 10 used, but it it is important that we pass this 11 legislation for the management of the bear 12 herd. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 It seems to me and, again, I say 16 I'm speaking without any special expertise here, 17 but it seems to me that those who are officials 18 and employees of the Department of Environmental 19 Conservation would have greater experience and 20 perhaps savvy in determining whether there is 21 truly an emergency or whether someone wishes to 22 eliminate a bear in order to obtain parts that 23 could be sold commercially. 8023 1 If this legislation had no 2 provision for monetary benefit through the 3 commercial sale of bear parts, then I would say 4 I understand fully the purpose of your 5 legislation, and I would say go to it and, if it 6 provided that objective employees of the 7 Department which we have authorized to provide 8 for management were to undertake this 9 responsibility, having no pecuniary interest in 10 the killing of that animal, and if it could be 11 demonstrated that there was no other way through 12 tranquilizers that you could put that animal to 13 sleep and cart it off to an area where it woulid 14 not endanger anyone, I would have more 15 confidence in this legislation. 16 But that is not the bill before 17 us. The bill before us says that the person who 18 makes the claim, who, in fact, maybe endangering 19 himself and others by not being as expert, as 20 expert in the taking of bear as someone working 21 for the Department would be and then has the 22 right to sell the parts and may not in spite of 23 the suggestion that there are people who thrive 8024 1 on bearburgers -- I have not seen too many 2 advertisements for bearburgers but maybe there 3 are -- but it's a different situation. 4 But this appears to be an 5 invitation for people to avoid the stated 6 purpose of the legislation by taking the bears 7 without any proper identification that these 8 were the animals involved and perhaps endanger 9 ing other people and not having employees of the 10 state undertake the management which they are 11 fully capable of doing. 12 I think we make a mistake. Why 13 don't we permit fox hunting in New York? They do 14 it in certain countries. They don't have fox 15 hunts in New York State, to my knowledge, the 16 way we do in other parts -- do we? 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: One of the 19 objectives -- I'm sorry. One of the objections 20 to fox hunting - 21 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 23 Tully, why do you rise? 8025 1 SENATOR TULLY: Would Senator 2 Stavisky yelled to a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Will you 4 yield, Senator? 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. I just 6 wanted to make the point that one of the 7 arguments against - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: In a 9 moment, Senator. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- this 11 legislation is that you are not killing an 12 animal needed for food, and we have generally as 13 a society, not engaged in the practice in this 14 country to the extent that other parts of the 15 world have done so. 16 But this is not -- this is not 17 the killing of an animal for food and there is 18 no assurance that there won't be the killing of 19 the animal for a commercial purpose, and for 20 these reasons I have misgivings about the 21 legislation even in this amended form. 22 And now I'll yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 8026 1 Tully. 2 SENATOR TULLY: Senator Stavisky, 3 I think you made a very good point, and I 4 wondered if you knew that the lights here have 5 been dimmed, there is some kind of an emergency 6 going on around the Capitol and I think some 7 very renowned people have been discussing that 8 subject matter, and I would be the last one in 9 the world to curtail debate on a bill as 10 significant as this, but I think if there was 11 some way that we could expedite the debate and 12 get to the point - 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: This debate is 14 over. 15 SENATOR TULLY: -- wrap it up - 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: The debate is 17 over as far as I'm concerned. I've made my 18 point. Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senator 20 Oppenheimer. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh, I 22 know. I just wanted to make one point that in 23 addition to "A," "B," "C," "D" of this bill, 8027 1 there weren't dogs and the Department felt that 2 it could regulate and control the bear 3 population without the use of dogs, and I think 4 that many of us who are involved in the animal 5 rights arena feel that there's a loss of faith 6 here because there was an indication that the 7 use of dogs would not appear in this bill and 8 suddenly in the "E" print, it did, and I think 9 that that is a serious failing. 10 I will be voting no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Last 12 section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Negatives 19 keep your hands raised, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Bare the 21 results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 1529 are 8028 1 Senators Gold, LaValle, Leichter, Levy, 2 Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, Padavan, 3 Santiago, Stavisky and Velella. Ayes 47, nays 4 11. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 do you have any clean-up? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Yes, sir, 11 we do. 12 We return to messages from the 13 Governor. Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: The Governor 15 returned without executive approval Senate Bill 16 Number 2557, by Senator Spano, Veto Number 9, an 17 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 18 relation to requiring notice be given concerning 19 a change in fire service protection. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Lay it on 21 the table. 22 THE SECRETARY: Also the Governor 23 returned without executive approval Senate Bill 8029 1 Number 4224-A, by Senator Spano, Veto Number 10, 2 an act to amend the New York State Financial 3 Emergency Act of 1984 for the city of Yonkers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Lay that 5 on the table. 6 THE SECRETARY: Also the Governor 7 returned without executive approval Senator 8 Trunzo's bill, Senate Bill Number 1767, Veto 9 Number 13, an act to amend the Civil Service 10 Law, in relation to application for injunctive 11 relief. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Lay that 13 one on the table. 14 Motions and resolutions. 15 Senator Mega. 16 SENATOR MEGA: Yes, Mr. 17 President. On page 30, I offer the following 18 amendments to Calendar Number 1580, Print Number 19 8652, and ask that said bill retain its place on 20 the calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: 22 Amendments received,, bill will retain its 23 place. 8030 1 Senator Mega. 2 SENATOR MEGA: On behalf of 3 Senator Saland, Mr. President, I wish to call up 4 his bill Print 5765, having passed both houses 5 and not delivered to the Governor. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 7 will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 9 Saland, Senate Bill Number 5765, authorizing the 10 town of Wappinger to discontinue the use and 11 convey certain park lands. 12 SENATOR MEGA: I now move to 13 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 14 passed and ask that the bill be restored to the 15 order of third reading. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Secretary 17 will call the roll on reconsideration. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Bill is 22 before the house. 23 SENATOR MEGA: I now offer up the 8031 1 following amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: 3 Amendments received; bill will retain its place 4 on the order of third reading. 5 Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: On page 29, the 7 bill that was just passed, Calendar Number 1529, 8 I understand I was listed in the negative. I 9 should have been recorded in the affirmative, 10 and I would ask unanimous consent to be so 11 recorded. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Without 13 objection, Senator Velella, on the last calendar 14 will be recorded in the positive, not the 15 negative. 16 Senator Present. We are finished 17 with the housekeeping. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 there being no further business, I move that we 20 adjourn until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LACK: Senate 22 will stand adjourned until tomorrow at 1:30; 23 1:30 p.m. 8032 1 (Whereupon, at 12:39 a.m., July 2 7, 1993 the Senate adjourned.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10