Tuesday, April 5, 1994

2147 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 5, 1994 11 4:02 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 2148 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Please take your 4 places. Ask the members to stand and the 5 visitors in the gallery to join me in saying the 6 Pledge of Allegiance. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 There is no visiting clergy 10 today, so I would ask that we all bow our heads 11 in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed. ) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Monday, April 4th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 18 designation of the Temporary President. The 19 Journal of Sunday, April 3rd, was read and 20 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 22 no objection, the Journal stands as approved. 23 Order of business: Presentation 2149 1 of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Wright. 10 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 11 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 22, 12 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 13 Number 435, Senate Print Number 214-B, and ask 14 that said bill retain its place on the Third 15 Reading Calendar. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So 17 ordered. 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of 19 Senator Farley, on page number 17, I offer the 20 following amendments to Calendar Number 468, 21 Senate Print Number 1593, and ask that said bill 22 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So 2150 1 ordered. 2 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of 3 Senator Velella, I request that Calendar Number 4 472 be starred. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 6 starred at the request of the sponsor. 7 Senator Holland. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 10 on behalf of Senator Levy, I ask -- request that 11 Calendar Number 433, Senate Bill Number 80-B be 12 starred. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 14 starred at the request of the sponsor. 15 Substitutions? 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 13 of 17 today's calendar, Senator Velella moves to 18 discharge the Committee on Local Government from 19 Assembly Bill Number 9781, and substitute it for 20 the identical Calendar Number 348. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Substitution is ordered. 23 Senator Present. 2151 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 I believe you have a privileged resolution at 3 the desk. May we have the title read and acted 4 upon. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 8 Resolution, by Senator Kuhl, mourning the death 9 of Lynn J. Morse, chairman of the Steuben County 10 Legislature, who died Saturday, April 2nd, 1994. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 12 is on the resolution. All of those in favor 13 signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The resolution is adopted. 18 Senator Present, the calendar. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 can we take up the non-controversial calendar 21 please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The clerk 23 will read. 2152 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 11, 2 Calendar Number 233, by Senator Holland, Senate 3 Bill Number 2839-B, an act to amend the Social 4 Services Law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 6 Senator Holland be kind enough to give us one 7 day? 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 10 much. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside for the day. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 237, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 1396-A, 15 an act to amend the Civil Service Law, in 16 relation to the definition of veteran. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2153 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 383, by member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly 6 Bill Number 16... 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside for 8 Senator Waldon. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 405, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 13 147... 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 438, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 19 6864-A, an act to amend the Highway Law. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside for 21 the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside for the day. 2154 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 445, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 574-A, 3 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 448, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 16 2487-A, General Municipal Law, in relation to 17 service award programs for volunteer 18 firefighters. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2155 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 458, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 6737, 8 authorize the town of Huntington in the county 9 of Suffolk to discontinue the use of park land. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 11 home rule message at the desk. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 473, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 22 6890, Insurance Law, in relation to forged 23 insurance identification cards. 2156 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 2 section. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 4 please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 476, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 9 6509, Public Authorities Law, in relation to the 10 Onondaga County Resource Recovery Agency. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 12 section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 477, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 6715, 23 Religious Corporations Law. 2157 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 2 section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 526, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 7239, 13 General Municipal Law, in relation to the 14 designation of economic development zones. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside for 23 Senator Galiber. 2158 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 Senator Present, that completes 4 the non-controversial calendar. What's your 5 pleasure? 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 let's take up the controversial calendar, 8 please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 10 will call. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 12 Calendar Number 383, by member of the Assembly 13 Sanders. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Assembly Bill 16 Number 168-A, Executive Law, in relation to 17 information for crime victims. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 2159 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 405, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 7 1475-B, Social Services Law and the Workers' 8 Compensation Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 13 minute. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 15 temporarily. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside temporarily. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 473, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 20 6890, Insurance Law, in relation to forged 21 insurance identification cards. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last 23 section. 2160 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 526, by Senator Marino. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Could 12 Senator Galiber get one day on this bill, 13 please? All right. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside for the day. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we stand at ease for a few moments. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 20 will stand at ease for a few moments. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 can we take up Calendar 405, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 2161 1 will call Calendar Number 405. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 3 Calendar Number 405, by Senator Holland, Senate 4 Bill Number 1475-B, an act to amend the Social 5 Services Law and the Workers' Compensation Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 9 this bill by Senator Holland deals with the 10 Social Services placing a lien against Workers' 11 Comp. on some benefits -- Senator Markowitz? 12 (Commissioner Halperin entered 13 the chamber.) 14 The best example of a homeless 15 person in the world. 16 As I was saying before the czar 17 walked in, this bill would allow the Department 18 of Social Services to place a lien against 19 Workmen's Compensation benefits for the 20 repayment of public assistance, and we have 21 debated this in the past, and Senator Galiber 22 and myself, Senators Leichter, Markowitz, 23 Mendez, Ohrenstein, Oppenheimer, Smith and 2162 1 Stavisky have voted in the negative and, unless 2 anybody else -- Senator Waldon has also opposed 3 the legislation. If nobody else wants to say 4 anything, maybe we just want to go to a vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 6 last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on -- those recorded in the 14 negative on Calendar Number 405 are Senators 15 Galiber, Gold, Markowitz, Ohrenstein, 16 Oppenheimer, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 41, nays 17 7. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 Senator Present, that completes 21 the controversial calendar. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Recognize 23 Senator Levy. 2163 1 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr. 2 President. There will be a meeting of the 3 Transportation Committee in the Majority 4 Conference Room at 3 -- at 4:30. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 6 will be an immediate meeting at 4:30 of the 7 Transportation Committee in the Room 332, 8 Majority Conference Room. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 10 think Senator Oppenheimer was about -- was about 11 to ask recognition of the Chair from her seat. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, I'm 13 standing. I have a motion to discharge Senate 14 Bill 6739. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 16 there is a motion to discharge at the desk. The 17 clerk will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 19 Oppenheimer, Senate Bill Number 6739, an act to 20 amend the Penal Law and the General Business 21 Law, in relation to assault weapons, and to 22 amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the Penal 23 Law, in relation to enhancing the penalties for 2164 1 the criminal sale of firearms and providing for 2 the repeal of certain provisions of the Penal 3 Law upon expiration thereof. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 7 This bill is the same as the 8 Assembly Bill A. 7118-C which was passed in the 9 Assembly on January 17th of this year, and I 10 guess none of us need to be reminded, but 11 currently the law imposes no significant 12 restrictions on ammunition capacity of any rifle 13 or shotgun or pistol and -- nor any restriction 14 on possession of magazines or clips. 15 These -- these are needed 16 restrictions because they have -- these guns 17 have the capacity to fire very large quantities 18 of ammunition without reloading. 19 As you're probably aware also, 20 you know that outside of New York City, you 21 don't need a license, and so in the rest of the 22 state anyone over 18, with identification, who 23 is going to sign a form that states that they 2165 1 are not a felon, that they have not been 2 adjudicated mentally defective, that they have 3 not been dishonorably discharged, that they 4 aren't an unlawful drug user, that they're not 5 an illegal alien nor person who's renounced his 6 or her citizenship, they can leave that store 7 with a rifle or a shotgun, including any semi 8 automatic assault weapon -- would you get the 9 noise down a little bit? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator's 11 point is well taken. Ladies and gentlemen, 12 let's show a little respect to the Senator's 13 motion. 14 Senator Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And indeed 16 -- I'm sorry. Indeed, some of our Senators 17 have gone in and just purchased guns without any 18 identification at all, simply saying that they 19 are not mentally incompetent and that they 20 haven't been in jail, and I mean anybody who 21 wants to buy an illegal gun is going to sign 22 that and it doesn't matter what the truth of the 23 matter is, they will simply lie and sign the 2166 1 form. 2 The Assembly bill, which is our 3 bill, bans the possession of about 40 -- 35 or 4 40 rifles and pistols by brand and model 5 number. It also bans, most importantly, even 6 more importantly, copies of these rifles and 7 shotguns and pistols because we all know what 8 happens when a particular model like an Uzi or 9 AK-47 or Beretta, once they are banned, then 10 simply models somehow designed come out exactly 11 like them that do -- having that same capacity 12 or more. 13 In addition, I guess most 14 importantly is that it defines -- this bill 15 defines what an assault weapon is. Further, it 16 limits the number of bullets in an ammunition 17 clip. In rifles and shotguns, it limits it to 18 six shots, actually five in the clip and one in 19 the gun, and with a pistol it's limited to six 20 -- ten shots. 21 Now, most important for many of 22 our people who very legally and very enjoyably 23 use their guns for target shooting or possess 2167 1 them because they are collectors, it should be 2 noted that these people are exempt. If they are 3 target shooters, marksmen, collectors of guns, 4 they can get a license and they will be exempt. 5 I think this is very important. 6 I mean I, for one, certainly have long been 7 opposed to guns, and yet when someone came to my 8 office last year and said he was a marksman and 9 he had a very finely tuned semi-assault weapon 10 which he used when he went to competitions and 11 what was important was that he needed to have a 12 second gun in the car with him because these 13 very finely tuned machines are liable to break 14 during competition and, therefore, asked me to 15 go to bat for him so that he could have two of 16 these guns when he goes to competition, and 17 indeed I did. I mean this is a very valid use, 18 and we do want to support our hunters and those 19 people who are using guns for sport in target 20 shooting. 21 Now, recent events in Nassau 22 County and in Brooklyn have provided the impetus 23 and really a gruesome testimony -- testament to 2168 1 why we need regulation of semi-assault weapons. 2 None of us will forget that on December 7, 1993, 3 Colin Ferguson boarded the 5:33 Long Island Rail 4 Road train out of Penn Station and opened fire, 5 killing six people and wounding 23. Ferguson 6 pumped 30 rounds out of his Ruger P-9 9 7 millimeter automatic pistol in less than four 8 minutes. 9 More recently on March 2nd, 1994, 10 Rashid Baz opened fire on a van of 15 Hasidic 11 students on a ramp on the Brooklyn Bridge. Four 12 teenagers are injured, one is killed, I believe 13 another maybe. The police estimate that Baz 14 fired some 30 shots in the time it took him to 15 cross the Brooklyn Bridge. In his home, police 16 discovered quite an arsenal: A 9 millimeter 17 Cobra hand gun with two 50-round clips; a Block 18 17 semi-automatic pistol; a fully loaded "street 19 sweeper" 12-gauge shotgun, and that gun does 20 just what its name is, it sweeps the street. 21 You don't have to take any aim. You just let it 22 loose. And they also found a .380 semi 23 automatic pistol. 2169 1 These are but two of the 2 incidents in which assault weapons, weapons of 3 mass destruction have been the weapon of choice 4 for criminals who indiscriminately kill. Semi 5 automatic weapons, often modified versions of 6 military style issued weapons, are specifically 7 designed to kill indiscriminately and at close 8 range. They are made for war. We are now 9 facing a war on our streets, not on the 10 battlefield, or rather the battlefield has now 11 become our streets. 12 They're often equipped with 13 magazines providing them with an unreasonably 14 large ammunition capacity. This allows for 15 short-range quick firing without the necessity 16 of ever having to take any aim. Unregulated 17 possession of very large capacity weapons 18 obviously poses a danger to the public and law 19 enforcement. Waiting until the next Long Island 20 Rail Road massacre or Brooklyn Bridge shooting 21 will be too late. We must restrict the sale of 22 these weapons of death. 23 In New York City, in New Jersey, 2170 1 in Connecticut they have outlawed semi-assault 2 weapons. We should join our neighboring states 3 and stop the proliferation of these dangerous 4 weapons and their ammunition. Indeed, our 5 governor, about two or three months ago, went 6 down to Virginia to speak with Governor Wilder 7 there in order to halt the enormous number of 8 weapons that were coming up to New York from 9 Virginia. We are doing what we can with our 10 neighbors who have not taken the steps that 11 Connecticut and New Jersey have taken. 12 Machine guns have long been 13 outlawed in New York. Now, why did we do that? 14 Why did we outlaw machine guns? Well, it's for 15 the very same reasons that I'm speaking today. 16 There's absolutely no lawful use for machine 17 guns or for semi-assault weapons. They're a 18 threat to public safety and to our law 19 enforcement, and we have to take the same steps 20 to minimize the number of these dangerous 21 weapons on our streets that we took when we 22 outlawed machine guns. 23 The arms race is now in the 2171 1 streets. The cop on the street knows what the 2 -- what the Senate Majority apparently does not 3 know because they have not permitted this on the 4 floor, this bill, but criminals are much better 5 armed today than they have ever been before. In 6 March of this year, the New York Police 7 Department moved to match the fire power of the 8 modern criminal by equipping its new recruits 9 with the Glock 15-round 9 millimeter semi 10 automatic as its standard issue weapon. Each 11 officer carries three 15-round clips. Now, this 12 is quite a contrast with the six-shot .38 13 revolvers that we're replacing, that were 14 replaced by these new weapons. 15 Despite the hyperbole of the NRA, 16 this is a very, very reasonable bill. It would 17 only restrict a very limited and specific class 18 of weapons, those that have the capacity to fire 19 large quantities of ammunition without reloading 20 or which -- or which are capable of rapid 21 reloading. It would permit possession and use 22 of assault weapons for organized marksmanship 23 competition, and for target firing at ranges 2172 1 that are owned by gun clubs. It will be 2 required that the individual owning the gun 3 belong to a gun club. 4 This proposed assault weapon ban 5 does enjoy very widespread support among law 6 enforcement organizations. It's really 7 fascinating to see the interest groups in 8 support, and it makes you understand that this 9 is no -- these are not Alice-in-Wonderland types 10 of people. We're talking the Association of 11 Chiefs of Police support this bill; the 12 Captains' Endowment Association; the New York 13 Conference of Mayors and Municipal Officials; 14 the Council of Churches; Detective Endowment 15 Association; District Attorneys' Association of 16 New York State; Law Enforcement Council; League 17 of Women Voters; Lieutenants' Benevolent 18 Association; Metropolitan Police Conference; New 19 City Housing Patrolmen's Benevolent Association; 20 New York City Transit Patrolmen's Association; 21 New York State Federation of Police; Patrol 22 men's Benevolent Association of the city of New 23 York; Police Conference of New York; Sergeants' 2173 1 Benevolent Association; Veteran Police 2 Association -- the list goes on. 3 We really have to respond. Our 4 law enforcement officers are saying they're 5 fearful. In fact, not only police, parents, 6 folks everywhere are saying that they're fear 7 ful. I put in a bill several years ago, about 8 five or six years ago, a very strong ban on 9 semi-assault weapons, and I was told not to 10 expect any action on the bill, and nothing has 11 happened, but things have gotten increasingly 12 worse and our streets are increasingly armed and 13 I think all of America is now telling us that 14 they're fearful of the violence on our streets; 15 and most of us here are mothers and fathers and 16 I think we should care that guns are killing our 17 children. It is the number one cause of death 18 for several age groups. It's the leading cause 19 of death for both black and white teen-age boys 20 is gunshot wounds. Firearms kill more people 21 between the ages of 15 and 24 than all natural 22 causes combined. An average of 14 children and 23 teenagers are killed with guns each day. 2174 1 I'll wrap up now. At any rate, 2 it could be one of our children that's on that 3 railroad or in that car and these weapons are 4 merely modified versions of military weapons. 5 They were never meant to be used in non 6 military -- in a non-military arena. They have 7 increased at an alarming rate in the last few 8 years on the streets of this state and in our 9 nation. Our police are outgunned and our 10 citizens are panicked and like the Brady bill, 11 this is a small bill, but it's a first step and 12 I think it's a step that is urgently needed to 13 quell the fears of society-at-large in our 14 nation and in our state. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Other 17 members wishing to speak on the issue? Senator 18 Padavan. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would Senator 20 Oppenheimer respond to a question or two? 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Sure. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, my 23 questions are purely technical in nature in 2175 1 regard to the specific bill before us. As I 2 believe you explained, there is a specific list 3 of items, assault weapons, contained on page 3 4 of the bill. However, you also indicate that, 5 as it says later on in this proposed legisla 6 tion, that individuals would be allowed to 7 license such weapons assuming they were involved 8 in legitimate rifle clubs or competitive marks 9 manship, is that correct? Did I understand you? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is 11 correct, Senator. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, are 13 you aware of the fact that several of the 14 weapons on this list -- and one of the most 15 egregious ones, in my mind, is the "street 16 sweeper", an automatic/semi-automatic shotgun, 17 was recently outlawed by the Congress, by the 18 federal government, so you could not license 19 it? You can't even have it any longer. That's 20 something that happened quite recently and since 21 the Assembly acted on this bill. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 23 Senator. 2176 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you aware 2 of that? 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 4 Senator. There are, I believe, certain amend 5 ments that would have to be made. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: To this bill. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: To this 8 bill. For example. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: So, Senator, if 10 I may understand what you're saying: You're 11 saying this bill would have to be amended so 12 that it would conform to what is now federal law 13 regard to several specific weapons including the 14 "street sweeper", is that a fair statement to 15 make? 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If the 17 federal law supersedes our law, yes. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: O.K. Well, I 19 think you're absolutely right, Senator, that it 20 would have to be amended, that in its present 21 form it's defective to that extent. 22 The other question I'd like to - 23 to raise, Senator, you mentioned the fact that 2177 1 New York City already has a statute dealing with 2 these weapons and that this bill would be 3 compatible. I believe that's more or less what 4 you said and, if you didn't, you could correct 5 me. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I did not 7 say, Senator, that it would be compatible. I 8 mentioned in my statement at the beginning that 9 there are three places where - 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you aware 11 that - 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- where, 13 surrounding us - 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: - 16 Connecticut, New Jersey and the southern part of 17 our state do have bans. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: But New York 19 City has a ban, no licensure for registration, 20 or ownership for any reason for most of the 21 weapons if not all of the weapons on your list; 22 so what we would have is in the city of New 23 York, should this ever become law in its amended 2178 1 form, and we've already agreed it has to be 2 amended, the city of New York would be different 3 than the rest of the state. That is a 4 contradiction, am I correct, or certainly a 5 difference; perhaps not a contradiction, but a 6 difference? Would you agree? 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We have 8 continual -- I would not call them contradic 9 tions. I would say that at a lower level of 10 government, we have permitted normally more 11 stringent rules than we ever adopted at a higher 12 level of government. Therefore, in my county, 13 for example, we have item pricing - 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Does this bill 15 provide for that? 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Throughout 17 the state? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Does this bill 19 provide for that? 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: More 21 stringent regulation than that we put down? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One would 2179 1 assume that is always available. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: I take your 3 word for it; you say you assume it's so, then I 4 accept that, although I can't see it specific 5 ally mentioned. 6 Now, one other thing you 7 mentioned in your presentation, Senator, and 8 again I want to preface my question by saying I 9 do not disagree with the basic thrust, I'm 10 simply pointing out that this bill has a lot of 11 problems with it that have to be addressed. You 12 mention that the individual on the Long Island 13 Rail Road and also that individual who killed a 14 number of young Hasidic men on the Brooklyn 15 Bridge possessed a semi-automatic weapon. In 16 both instances the weapon that was used was a 17 semi-automatic pistol and in both instances was 18 illegal. Are you aware of that fact? 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, I am. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: So while the 21 point is made that we have a problem with regard 22 to semi-automatic weapons, in those two specific 23 instances that you cited, those weapons were 2180 1 already illegal, both in the city of New York 2 and in the other case outside the city of New 3 York and, while I think it's important for us to 4 recognize since you've acknowledged that fact, 5 that unless something is done on a federal level 6 we will continue to have that kind of a 7 problem. Would you accept that as a matter of 8 judgment? 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator 10 Padavan, I know of your bill in the - 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: And I'm not 12 talking about - 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And I know 14 your convictions. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: And I'm not 16 talking about my bill or any other bill or your 17 bill except the one you're trying to discharge. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Right. I 19 would say that it would be optimal for the 20 federal government to pass the legislation. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: As they've 22 already done as we discussed before with several 23 of these weapons that we discussed; just 2181 1 recently, but they've done it. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Agreed. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Do you agree 4 that that would be the preferable vehicle so 5 that there would not be the importation of these 6 weapons from one state to another where someone 7 could buy it in one state and bring it into New 8 York; do you agree that that would be 9 preferable? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There is no 11 question that that is preferable. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you very 13 much. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: And if I 15 could add, I would support Senator Padavan's 16 bill. I believe that this bill has a few added 17 measures. I would also like to comment that it 18 is common to do chapter amendments in the 19 Legislature when they are needed, so that could 20 be attended to through a chapter amendment in 21 response to the original question of Senator 22 Padavan. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 2182 1 any other members wishing to speak on the motion 2 to discharge? 3 Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 I think Senator Padavan's 7 comments with respect to Congress acting on the 8 "street sweeper" and the continual progression 9 of the debate on limitations on assault weapons 10 brings up a good point. I think that's just the 11 kind of debate we ought to have, and there's one 12 way to have it, vote in favor of this motion, 13 put it before the house, and then the issues of 14 whether we're preempted by the federal 15 government or whether we should wait for the 16 federal government to act on this and do nothing 17 ourselves and stand by while people are killed 18 in our streets and yet we continue to rely on 19 the federal government to do it while other 20 states have taken the initiative and done it 21 themselves, that would be a fruitful topic of 22 discussion. I'm sure there'd be a lively debate 23 over that as we talk about whether we should be 2183 1 out front of the federal government as leaders 2 or whether we should simply follow an agenda set 3 by someone else. I think that that's a debate 4 that this body ought to have. 5 Mr. President, I rise because 79 6 days ago I stood in front of this house and 7 asked that a measure be considered that would 8 advance a bill to ban or control, restrict 9 access to assault weapons. 79 days have passed; 10 I've been keeping my vigil with the little sign 11 that's on my lapel hoping that this would prompt 12 the conscience of those who believe that we 13 ought to do something to reduce our health care 14 costs, that we ought to reduce the propensity 15 for violence in our society and that we ought to 16 do something to protect the people in our 17 streets. 18 It hasn't happened yet, and I 19 marvel that on the day we came here on January 20 15th, we came here in honor of Dr. King and 21 yesterday we celebrated the anniversary of Dr. 22 King's death. 78 days have transpired in 23 between, and while so much seemed to be 2184 1 happening at the federal level where Congress 2 was moving to ban possession of "street 3 sweepers", the New York State Senate was doing 4 nothing. 5 It seems to me this is a very, 6 very simple issue. New York is now one of six 7 states in the country where guns claim more 8 lives than automobiles. Remember what happened 9 a decade ago when we became concerned about the 10 rising incidence of young people using alcohol 11 and driving a motor vehicle? This body, this 12 Legislature, enacted legislation that increased 13 the age of majority at which someone could 14 consume alcohol, and the reason for that was 15 because alcohol, when combined with driving, was 16 extremely dangerous to our young people and we 17 made a determination that we were better off 18 restricting their access until they grew up to 19 be age 21 and reached a point where they could 20 better handle alcohol and understand what it 21 means to drive an automobile under the influence 22 of alcohol. It seems to me that's a very, very 23 simple paradigm for what we ought to do here. 2185 1 In 1992 in this state firearm 2 deaths numbered approximately 2345 while motor 3 vehicle deaths were 1959. 20 percent more 4 people died from use of firearms than they do 5 from automobiles. Motor vehicle deaths have 6 been steadily declining largely because this 7 Legislature intervened and took alcohol away 8 from those who were irresponsible in using it. 9 Gun deaths, on the contrary, are going just the 10 other way. They're increasing, and it seems to 11 me that the consequence of allowing free access 12 to assault weapons is that they oftentimes end 13 up in the hands of people who are prone to 14 violence, prone to bitterness, prone to hate and 15 prone to killing. 16 If you look at our system of the 17 way we handle the consequences of assault 18 weapons, keep one thing in mind, if I told you 19 that there was a way to reduce the health care 20 costs in this state, to significantly reduce it, 21 to reduce the consequences, the consequences to 22 families of gunshot wounds, I'm sure everybody 23 in this chamber would jump at the chance to do 2186 1 it. 2 It seems to me it's a simple jump 3 to conclude that, if you don't have access to a 4 weapon of multi-person violence, if you don't 5 have access to a weapon that can gun down a 6 dozen people at a time, we'd decrease the number 7 of people who suffer gunshot wounds, the number 8 of people who are showing up in our emergency 9 wards in the major metropolitan centers and 10 throughout the state to be treated for gunshot 11 wounds, we'd save money, we'd reduce our health 12 care cost. It's that simple. 13 I recognize that restricting 14 access to assault weapons will not result in a 15 reduction in crime. I admit that. That's not a 16 simple equation. I don't believe it, but I do 17 believe it will do one thing. Assault weapons 18 are weapons of increased violence. By pulling 19 the trigger, by increasing the volume of spray 20 from a weapon, you can kill more people. It's a 21 difficult thing; it's a difficult thing, a 22 difficult concept to recognize that what we're 23 doing is reducing the propensity for violence, 2187 1 the number of people who would be killed. 2 Yesterday in Rochester, I sat at 3 the Martin Luther King Commission luncheon next 4 to Walter Pontroy, who was the delegate from the 5 District of Columbia to the United States 6 Congress for 20 years. He told me a story about 7 a killing in Washington in which ten people were 8 shot with an automatic, with a semi-automatic 9 weapon because one of the ten people in the 10 crowd was apparently an alleged drug dealer with 11 whom they were having a turf war. Nine innocent 12 people died in that spray of gunfire. If the 13 individual who was pulling that trigger did not 14 have access to assault weapons, the chance that 15 those other nine people would die would have 16 been much, much smaller. 17 In conclusion, Mr. President, 18 I've spoken about this issue before. I'll 19 continue to wait through Day 79 and 70 -- and 80 20 and 81, and perhaps Day 100, and I'll always 21 marvel at what legislators have done in the 22 hundred days when they had the will to do it, 23 how a Senate and a House of Representatives and 2188 1 a United States Congress could begin the process 2 of taking the country out of a depression in a 3 mere hundred days, how they can change the 4 course of an entire country and an entire 5 generation because they have the legislative 6 will to do it. 7 What we lack here is that will. 8 I can't understand, Mr. President, our love 9 affair with guns. I don't know how long we're 10 going to have to have the continuing nightmare 11 of untold deaths before we wake up and realize 12 that we've got to stop -- start restricting 13 access to dangerous weapons of violence and 14 killing. 15 Let's let the nightmare stop, the 16 new day begin. Let this bill be debated on the 17 merits and let's give the people of this state 18 what they're demanding and what they know will 19 provide real protection to them, a ban and a 20 restriction on assault weapons. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 23 affirmative. 2189 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Anyone 2 else wish to speak on the motion to discharge? 3 All those -- Senator Oppenheimer. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 5 President, I just want to say a couple of words 6 before we close. 7 I was just looking at some 8 statistics, and I think we should pause and 9 think about this before we take this vote. In 10 1991, and that's just one year, there were 11 38,000 people killed by firearms in homicides, 12 suicides and accidents. That's more than a 13 hundred people a day. It's also more than the 14 total number of Americans that were killed in 15 battle in the Korean War. If that isn't a 16 shocking statistic! 17 And here's another point that I 18 didn't make earlier. In 1992, hand guns were 19 used in murders of 33 people in Britain, 36 20 people in Sweden, 97 people in Switzerland, 128 21 in Canada, 13 in Australia, 60 in Japan and over 22 13,000 in our country. 23 I don't know if many of you saw 2190 1 this in the newspaper on Friday, this past 2 Friday, April 1st, but this was a picture of the 3 two fathers of the Japanese students who were 4 slain in Los Angeles and, while they were slain 5 not with semi-automatic weapons, these two 6 gentlemen -- and my heart goes out to them - 7 they suggest that Americans should stop shooting 8 people. 9 I think we have to start 10 controlling guns for our own self-interest. I 11 hear that, in Japan, they're now warning people 12 about coming to America as tourists. I think 13 America and New York State would make a good 14 start, at least New York State, with this bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 question is on the motion to discharge. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 18 affirmative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All those 20 in favor aye. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 22 the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Opposed 2191 1 nay? Clerk will record a party line vote. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 21, nays 34, 3 party vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 5 defeated. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 Could I star one of my bills? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Certainly. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senate 6219-A, 13 Calendar 249. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 15 will record a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 16 249. 17 Senator Stavisky. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 19 without objection, I should like to be recorded 20 in the negative on Calendar Number 405. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Same. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection. Senator Solomon, same? Without 2192 1 objection. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Connor. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, I'd like 6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 7 on Calendar 405 also. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection. 10 Senator Montgomery. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, may I 12 have unanimous consent to be in the negative on 13 Calendar Number 405? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection. 16 Senator Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Before the 18 leader takes over, I think Senator Onorato may 19 want to be recognized. 20 On behalf of Senator Mendez, may 21 I remind everybody immediate Democratic 22 Conference in the Democratic Minority room as 23 soon as we complete session. 2193 1 Senator Onorato? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Onorato. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: No, no, O.K. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Farley. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 On behalf Senator Skelos, I wish 10 to call up his bill, Senate Print 1958-A, 11 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 12 desk. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 16 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 1958-A, an act to 17 amend the Executive Law. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 19 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 20 bill was passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 2194 1 reconsideration. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 4 now offer the following amendments. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amend 6 ments received. 7 Senator Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: All cleaned up? 9 Mr. President, there being no further business, 10 I move that we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 11 a.m. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 13 stands adjourned until tomorrow at 11 a.m. 14 (Whereupon at 4:52 p.m., the 15 Senate adjourned. ) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23