Thursday, April 14, 1994

2532 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 14, 1994 10 1:43 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 2533 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 All please rise for the Pledge of 5 Allegiance to the flag. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 In the absence of clergy, may we 9 please bow our heads in a moment of silence. 10 Reading of the Journal. 11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 12 Wednesday, April 13th. The Senate met pursuant 13 to adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 14 designation of the Temporary President. The 15 Journal of Tuesday, April 12th, was read and 16 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing 18 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 19 read. 20 Petitions; messages; motions. 21 Senator Libous. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 23 on behalf of my colleague, Senator Lack, on page 2534 1 14, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 2 Number 503, Senate Print Number 3599, and ask 3 that said bill retain its place on the Third 4 Reading Calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without 6 objection. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 9 Goodman. 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 11 I was away from the chamber on Senate business 12 when the votes on Calendar Number 354 and 396 13 were taken. I'd like to have the records 14 reflect that had I been in the chamber at the 15 time of those votes, I would have been recorded 16 in the negative on those two bills. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without 18 objection, the record will so indicate. 19 Any other motions, resolutions? 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take up 22 the non-controversial calendar, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 2535 1 Secretary will read the non-controversial 2 calendar. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 11, 4 Calendar Number 434, by Senator Levy. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill 6 aside for the day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid 8 aside for the day. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 15, 10 Calendar Number 569, by Senator Larkin, Senate 11 Bill Number 7557. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Can we have a day 13 on this? 14 SENATOR LARKIN: You may have a 15 day. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid 18 aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 570, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 21 4102-A, an act to amend the Agriculture and 22 Markets Law and the Town Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 2536 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 571, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 4753, 12 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 13 Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 23 is passed. 2537 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 573, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7545, 3 Agriculture and Markets Law, and the 4 Environmental Conservation Law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Laid 7 aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 574, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7546, 10 Agriculture and Markets Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 575, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7547, 23 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 2538 1 Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 576, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7548, 14 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to 15 including livestock management in the integrated 16 pest management program. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2539 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Present, that concludes 5 the non-controversial calendar. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 can we take up Calendar 573. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 9 Secretary will read Calendar 573. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 573, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7545, 12 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 13 and the Environmental Conservation Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 15 -- Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, if you will 17 bear with me just one second, please. Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 20 Gold, on the bill. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator Kuhl 22 yield to one question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 2540 1 Kuhl, would you yield? 2 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Sponsor 4 yields. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. This is a 6 plan identical to the bill we passed last year 7 and vetoed by the Governor. 8 SENATOR KUHL: That's correct. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, on 10 the bill. 11 We did pass this last year with 12 only one dissent. I notice that there were - 13 there were some letters dated just a couple days 14 ago in opposition, one from Oneida-Herkimer 15 Solid Waste Authority which was sent to Senator 16 Hoffmann, and one from the Onondaga County 17 Resource Recovery Agency, again to Senator 18 Hoffmann, and -- but aside from that, I don't 19 seem to have anything else that's on the bill 20 aside from the veto message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2541 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42, nays 3, 6 Senators Espada, Gold and Leichter recorded in 7 the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 there comes that time when we stand at ease. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 14 Senate will stand at ease. 15 (The Senate stood at ease from 16 1:51 to 2:50 p.m.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 18 Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 can we call up Calendar Number 552, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate 22 will come to order. Secretary will read 23 Calendar Number 552. 2542 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 15, 2 Calendar Number 552, by Senator Tully, Senate 3 Bill Number 6775-A, an act to amend the Public 4 Health Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, if 8 my distinguished colleague from Nassau would 9 just give a brief explanation since it was an 10 add on, at least to alert people as to which 11 bill we're dealing with. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 13 Tully. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 This bill provides that there 17 will be direct medical intervention at the most 18 effective point in preventing HIV transmission 19 to a child, the first prenatal visit during 20 which the pregnant woman is counseled on HIV and 21 offered HIV testing. 22 The amendments would add new 23 requirements that, at the first prenatal visit 2543 1 and upon delivery for those who have had no 2 prenatal care, every new mother would be 3 informed, one, that a sample of the infant's 4 blood as currently required by the state DOH may 5 be tested for HIV along with other congenital 6 diseases; two, that the HIV antibody test while 7 used for health research purposes is not 8 medically valid for a diagnosis of HIV infection 9 in her own child, and three, medically 10 appropriate tests will be conducted upon a 11 mother's request in order to accurately 12 determine and inform her of her HIV status or of 13 that of her infant. 14 Basically, Mr. President, the 15 current purpose of the existing study is to see 16 if the mother has the HIV virus. It does not 17 test the baby, and the test is not done on every 18 baby. In 1988, they missed 10,500 babies 19 because they couldn't get enough blood. The 20 current test is not a diagnostic test approved 21 by the FDA but is a research test to acquire 22 data. 23 This, Mr. President, will act to 2544 1 preserve the health of all of the infants in 2 this state who were born with AIDS, roughly 3 amounting to 1900 in this state out of the 4 300,000 babies born each year. Of that 1900, 5 roughly 250 to 450 will be HIV-infected and 6 that's approximately one HIV-infected baby born 7 every day. These infants could be prevented 8 from receiving HIV from their mothers with this 9 legislation, and I urge all my colleagues to 10 join me in its support. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Mr. President, there are certain 16 catch words that are very politically sensitive 17 today, as we all know, and I was watching 18 television last night, and I saw some AIDS 19 activists disrupting a town hall meeting of 20 Mayor Giuliani. We know that we've had 21 incidents in this chamber, and I know that there 22 isn't one person in government who isn't 23 sensitive to the fact that AIDS and HIV and this 2545 1 whole issue is something that threatens 2 everybody in our society, and we ought to be 3 doing something about it. 4 Having said that, Senator Tully, 5 I think there are certain things that ought to 6 be out here. First of all, there is a bill 7 sponsored in this house, I believe by Senator 8 Velella, and sponsored in the Assembly by 9 Assemblywoman Mettie Mayersohn, which deals with 10 the subject of testing and deals with the issue 11 of whether or not, if a child has the HIV virus, 12 it should be told to the mother whether 13 treatment should be happening. 14 This is an issue that is debated 15 as to whether or not, what is it, AZT, ATZ, does 16 what its advocates say it does or whether or not 17 it is more dangerous to give it to infants than 18 not give it. There was a television program I 19 saw about a week ago where there was medical 20 testimony being given which suggested that HIV 21 alone doesn't even cause AIDS. There was 22 testimony given to the fact that, or the 23 allegation that there have been people who have 2546 1 had AIDS who have been cured -- the word "cure" 2 was used -- by a process that is being used and 3 tested in Europe, but obviously it's always more 4 difficult in America to get certain things 5 tested. 6 Now, I say all of that, Senator 7 Tully, because I'm distressed that we're 8 debating your bill for only one reason. I have 9 no problem saying in public what I say behind 10 your back, Senator Tully. I think that this 11 bill is a sincere effort on your part to deal 12 with an issue, but I think that Assemblywoman 13 Mayersohn and Senator Velella are just as 14 sincerely involved in this, and I think that 15 perhaps there ought to be some way of putting 16 these bills together or having some middle 17 ground. 18 The suggestion, I think, has been 19 made, at least in the political rhetoric, that 20 your bill is in some way a different answer to 21 the problem of Assemblyman -- Assemblywoman 22 Mayersohn. She does not believe that. She 23 believes that it's -- that there is ground that 2547 1 is missing, so I really feel that it's a shame 2 that we're debating it this way. It's just too 3 significant an issue to be, I believe, 4 politicized, and I'm not suggesting you're doing 5 that, Senator Tully. I don't, you know, charge 6 you with any -- anything other than good faith. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Perhaps I can 8 explain it to you a little better than I did 9 before. 10 SENATOR GOLD: If you're asking 11 me to yield, it would be an honor. 12 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you very 13 much, Senator Gold. 14 This bill is not a compromise 15 bill to any other piece of legislation pending 16 in this state. This bill stands on its own. It 17 does not deal with testing as other pieces of 18 legislation do after the fact. This bill is the 19 first time in the AIDS epidemic that we can do 20 something to prevent children from being born 21 with HIV. 22 We're dealing here with the 23 virus. We're not dealing with the HIV antibody 2548 1 which some other legislation may discuss which 2 deals with a research test which only tells one 3 thing. It says that the infant that they've 4 tested, if they test all the infants -- and they 5 don't -- it says if that infant is tested that 6 there is an antibody which reflects that the 7 mother may have an HIV antibody, in no way does 8 it indicate that she has the virus and in no way 9 does it tell you anything about the infant. 10 My legislation deals with the 11 infant. It's what you might call a "baby 12 bill". It's done during the course of 13 pregnancy. It has no relation whatsoever to any 14 other piece of legislation, and I'm sure, 15 Senator Gold, that you know that this bill is 16 supported by just about every organization that 17 deals with this very vital subject. I can name 18 them for you if that's significant to you, but I 19 think you have them. It would probably take 20 another 15 minutes to name all of the 21 organizations that support this piece of 22 legislation. 23 Of greater significance is the 2549 1 fact that this legislation came out after the 2 results of the federal AZT study whereas the 3 other piece of legislation was in before it. 4 This bill deals specifically with the health of 5 the infants that could be born and possibly have 6 contracted the AIDS virus, and it provides with 7 the mother's consent that they can be tested for 8 the virus, not for an antibody which means 9 nothing other than the fact that maybe the 10 mother could contract AIDS. 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 14 Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is a 16 bill that I strongly support, and that is sup 17 ported by -- by many groups, most specifically 18 the AIDS Council. 19 The importance of this bill is 20 that the counseling and information on the 21 benefits of HIV testing and of early treatment 22 can reduce the risk of transmission to the new 23 born. There has been rather astounding results 2550 1 announced a couple of weeks ago from Washington 2 that showed that in those cases -- and this was 3 from the U. S. Center for Disease Control and 4 Prevention -- that in those cases where they 5 actually treated the affected HIV-positive 6 woman, that in those cases using AZT during the 7 pregnancy, if -- it is actually reducing the 8 incidence of HIV, the transmission to the new 9 borns at an absolutely astonishing rate of 67.5 10 percent. 11 This is very new. Until so 12 recently we didn't realize this was possible or 13 conceivable, but it is such exciting news, and 14 we feel that women will voluntarily enter this 15 program to have the testing done during their 16 pregnancies, and that we are not only saving the 17 lives of the children; we will be saving the 18 state money and this is a win/win, and as 19 Senator Tully, who has put this bill before us 20 and done an excellent job, has already said, 21 this is supported by just about every group 22 involved in this issue in the state and indeed 23 in the country. 2551 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 2 last -- Senator? 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 5 Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: I commend 7 Senator Tully for putting together what I think 8 is a good first step to addressing some of the 9 problems that we're facing on the issue of 10 testing for AIDS. It's a good first step, but 11 there's more that needs to be done, in my 12 opinion. 13 This bill will make available 14 counseling, will make available testing, and it 15 probably will save some lives of children who 16 would be exposed or who will develop the 17 full-blown AIDS disease. 18 Right now, in New York State, 19 under the current law, we test every baby that 20 is born anonymously for AIDS. That means that 21 their blood is drawn, they're tested and they're 22 tested for the virus, and that result is kept 23 confidential. It's called "blind testing". The 2552 1 mother, no one, finds out if that test comes 2 back positive for the virus and it's very 3 important that -- I make it a very important 4 issue that I have a bill that will reveal to the 5 mother the results of that test. 6 And why do I think it's 7 important? It's important because there are 8 three very basic things that will happen: One, 9 if a child has the virus, in many cases they 10 will reject it within the first several months 11 of life unless that mother breast-feeds the 12 child and reintroduces it through the breast 13 feeding process, and there's medical evidence to 14 show that that can happen. 15 Secondly, a child who has the 16 virus should be treated in a different way. 17 Their innoculation program is modified because 18 they have this virus. It doesn't make sense to 19 shoot a live polio vaccine into a child that may 20 be developing full-blown AIDS or may have that 21 virus. So a weakened form of the vaccine is put 22 into place. 23 And thirdly, within that first 2553 1 month of life, that child should be receiving 2 certain antibiotics so that they will not 3 develop the pneumonia associated with children 4 who have AIDS. Those are three very important 5 reasons why a parent should be made very much 6 aware of the fact that the test has come back 7 positive. 8 Communicable diseases are not 9 strange to this Legislature. Long before any of 10 us were here, they were dealing with those types 11 of diseases, whether it be tuberculosis, 12 syphilis, venereal diseases, the various 13 diseases that are communicable, and we've put 14 some very good health law policies on the books 15 and let's take a look at how we deal with other 16 communicable diseases as opposed to AIDS, 17 because I submit to you, we have a special 18 category for AIDS. 19 AIDS is the first politically 20 protected disease known to man. When we talk 21 about AIDS, everything else goes out the 22 window. All reason goes out the window. We 23 have to do the politically correct thing. I 2554 1 submit that we have done some of the things for 2 other diseases that we ought to be doing for 3 AIDS. 4 Let's take a look at section 2308 5 of the Public Health Law. Every physician 6 attending a pregnant woman in this state shall, 7 not may, shall in the case of every pregnant 8 woman so attended, take or cause to be taken a 9 sample of blood from such woman at the time of 10 first examination and submit such sample to an 11 approved laboratory for standard serological 12 tests for syphilis. 13 Section 2500, at the same time a 14 blood sample is taken for a test for syphilis, 15 every physician or authorized practitioner 16 attending a pregnant woman in this state shall, 17 in addition, submit or cause to be submitted 18 such sample to an approved laboratory for a 19 standard serological test for Hepatitis B. 20 Two major diseases, communicable 21 diseases, mandated by law. You must take blood 22 and test for these and let the people know they 23 have it, not for AIDS. Even for tuberculosis, 2555 1 the Commissioner shall have full power and 2 authority to make or cause to be made such 3 laboratory tests or X-ray examinations as, in 4 his judgment, may be desirable to detect 5 tuberculosis. 6 We even provide in the law that 7 if they're -- someone is suspected of these 8 diseases, they may be detained until the results 9 are known but not for AIDS. That's treated 10 specially. 11 Article 27 of the Public Health 12 Law devotes 39 pages to what we can't do about 13 AIDS and only two pages to diabetes, burn care, 14 birth defects, hypertension and a battery of 15 other diseases. But 39 pages on what we can't 16 do about AIDS. 17 Why? Once again, I submit 18 because it's the only politically protected 19 disease. I heard Senator Waldon the other day 20 talk in this chamber when we discussed the 21 fingerprinting bill, that some minority people 22 and some poor people would be intimidated by 23 fingerprinting, they might not seek out the help 2556 1 that they're entitled to because they were 2 intimidated by the process. Right now, if you 3 ask someone for their voluntary consent, you'd 4 have to have them fill out this form which is 5 the most intimidating thing I've seen: Pages of 6 explanations telling you that you're likely to 7 be discriminated against if this test comes back 8 positive, in your housing, your employment or 9 other means of discrimination may be employed 10 against you. 11 That's what you ask a woman to 12 sign when she takes the voluntary test for 13 AIDS. Every other disease is this simple form. 14 You just list the test. The doctor gives his 15 consent, advises that he's explained the test, 16 what the -- what the repercussions would be and 17 the person signs the form. Not for AIDS. We 18 have this form, because we have to politically 19 protect it. 20 This voluntary program is falling 21 flat on its face. Let me tell you what's 22 happening in 26 hospitals, targeted hospitals. 23 All of our voluntary programs in hospitals like 2557 1 Albany Medical Center, Bellevue, Beth Israel, 2 Bronx-Lebanon, Bronx Municipal, Brookdale, Coney 3 Island, Harlem, Kings County Memorial, Lutheran 4 Medical, Mount Sinai, Nassau County Medical 5 Center, New York hospital, North Central Bronx, 6 Presbyterian, Central Bronx, and on and on, 24 7 of the top targeted hospitals from July 1, 1993 8 to September 30, 1993, the voluntary testing 9 program with all the counseling that we've put 10 in with good intentions, all the advice by the 11 professionals yielded 36 positive HIV tests. 12 In those same hospitals at the 13 same time, the same period of time in those 14 hospitals, the blind testing, the testing of 15 every baby born in that hospital showed us that 16 there were 226 babies born in that hospital that 17 tested positive, only 36 of which positive tests 18 were the result of our positive -- of our 19 voluntary program for administering the test. 20 That means that 84.1 percent of 21 those babies went home with a positive reaction 22 and not knowing that they would have the 23 possibility of developing full-blown AIDS, going 2558 1 back home and possibly being breast-fed by their 2 mothers and reintroducing the virus, going on a 3 regular innoculation schedule when they should 4 be on a special one and going on a program that 5 would not protect them against the dangerous 6 pneumonia that they could develop. 7 Probably the only thing wrong 8 with my bill is, I think it makes too much 9 common sense. It says that, if we test a baby 10 as we're doing now, the mother ought to be 11 told. The adoptive parents ought to be told or 12 the foster parents. It maintains all the other 13 protections, all the other requirements for 14 confidentiality, but I think that we are being 15 negligent and being very narrow-minded when we 16 yield to certain political pressures that make 17 this a politically protected disease. 18 Senator Tully, I commend you on 19 your bill. It goes a long way for taking a 20 first step, but I'm hopeful that we'll see some 21 more steps taken in the near future, and I urge 22 your committee to look at it more carefully. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 2559 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 3 Senator Tully -- Senator Velella yield to a 4 question? 5 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 7 Velella yields. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, these 9 questions are not by way of hostile debate. 10 They're by way of trying to just get some in 11 formation out on the floor. Do you know what 12 the percentages are of these newborn babies that 13 -- who, if not treated in any way, cure 14 themselves within the first 18 months? I'm told 15 that if there - 16 SENATOR VELELLA: I think it 17 would probably be more than the majority. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, it's a 19 substantial number, isn't that right? 20 SENATOR VELELLA: It's a 21 substantial number. I think it's within about 22 the first eight months, is it, about the first 23 eight months. Suzi, you can answer yourself if 2560 1 you like. 2 SENATOR GOLD: I don't know. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 4 Oppenheimer, do you wish to be recognized? 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. Within the first five to six 7 months, the vast majority, 65 to 75 percent. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, a 9 substantial or vast amount will reject these 10 antibodies on their own natural progression. 11 They reject the birth mother's antibodies unless 12 they're reintroduced through breast-feeding. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 14 Velella yield to another question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 16 Velella yields. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I 18 understand the concept of Senator Tully's bill 19 and don't have any problem with it, but I'm 20 curious, if today we have these hospitals doing 21 pilot programs and they are unsuccessful, I 22 think your figure was 84 percent of the time - 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, at those 2561 1 those targeted hospitals. 2 SENATOR GOLD: -- in convincing 3 people to participate in what seems to me to be 4 a similar kind of consent to the Tully bill, 5 what makes us think then that the Tully bill, 6 even very well motivated, will work if people 7 are going to turn it down? What are we doing 8 wrong now in the educational and hospital, and 9 so on, studies? 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, there has 11 been some degree of substantial success in 12 Harlem Hospital, although it's not the success 13 that I would have liked to see. Senator Tully's 14 bill -- and he can explain it himself I'm sure 15 -- encourages a wider use of this, a more 16 aggressive use of this -- of this testing 17 process, and perhaps he can better explain his 18 own, but it will encourage -- and let me tell 19 you, either bill alone, I feel, is inadequate. 20 Certainly we want to encourage 21 the prenatal testing because that's where the 22 latest medical results are showing the most 23 impact can be had with AZT treatment, but there 2562 1 is still a gap after the baby is born that I am 2 trying to plug. This goes the longest way 3 possible to doing the prenatal treatment. 4 My bill addresses the post-birth 5 system that I think is definitely lacking and 6 needs the follow-up punch. Either bill on their 7 own isn't enough, in my opinion. 8 SENATOR GOLD: And will you 9 yield, Senator, to one last question? 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 11 SENATOR GOLD: There was a 12 comment made, and I think it was a part of the 13 television show that I'm referring to, which 14 distressed me, and I'm not sure whether it's 15 accurate, and I'm not sure whether you know 16 whether it's accurate or not. 17 The comment was made that AZT 18 itself is very dangerous, that you've got to 19 wear gloves to handle it. It's got all these 20 poison notations on it, and the implication was 21 made, I think it was more than an implication, I 22 think the statement was made that in treating 23 the unborn fetuses or the mother during 2563 1 pregnancy, that that itself was causing deaths 2 to the fetuses. 3 Now, I've never heard that. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I've 5 never heard that; I've never heard it. 6 SENATOR GOLD: I've never heard 7 that, and I do not believe it to be the fact, 8 but I'm wondering whether you know anything 9 about that accusation. 10 SENATOR VELELLA: I've never 11 heard it, but let me tell you, once again when 12 discussing this issue, there is a lot of 13 political emotion here. There were some wild 14 charges around about Senator Tully's bill, wild 15 charges around about what's going to happen with 16 my bill, and this certainly, in my mind, unless 17 I see something different, and I've tried to 18 read up as much as I can is one of those wild 19 charges made. It has no substance. 20 What do those wild charges mean? 21 What is it going to do? It's sort of like 22 saying when a person has cancer and goes into 23 chemotherapy, you're introducing poisons into 2564 1 their system and they're going to have very 2 negative reactions, but you're saving their life 3 probably in the long run. That's the only 4 analogy I can see. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 6 Jones. 7 SENATOR JONES: First of all, I 8 would like to say I don't disagree with many of 9 the points that Senator Velella just made. If 10 we lived in an ideal world, it would be treated 11 as a communicable disease as any other, and we 12 wouldn't be be having this discussion. 13 But nevertheless I want to 14 commend Senator Tully for this bill that he has 15 before us today, and I'm glad you mentioned 16 Harlem Hospital because I personally have had 17 the opportunity because of my own experience 18 with emergency medicine, to visit there and to 19 meet with Dr. Cooper and to look at the results 20 that they have had there with voluntary 21 agreement by the mothers to testing, and so it 22 is successful there, and I guess I would have to 23 say we need to look at what they're doing 2565 1 differently than the hospitals that we're 2 talking about that aren't successful. 3 But I think the point that that 4 has changed is the study that has said AZT will 5 help prenatally. Prevention, no matter what 6 we're talking about, whether it be disease or 7 education, is certainly the way we want to go. 8 We've learned that we can operate on babies in 9 the uterus. We can change blood supplies, so if 10 we can indeed use this and prevent these babies 11 from being born with the HIV, then I certainly 12 think we need to put as much effort as possible 13 there. 14 I don't think voting for this 15 bill really has any bearing on whether or not 16 you, at some other time, would support Senator 17 Velella's bill, but I think this is an excellent 18 bill, and I commend you, Senator Tully, and I 19 certainly am very supportive of it and your 20 efforts. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 2566 1 I think it's kind of a well established fact at 2 this point that only 12 percent of those people 3 who are treated for chemotherapy, of certain 4 types of cancer, are actually able to survive 5 and at the same time 15 percent of the people 6 who are treated actually contract other forms of 7 cancer. And so I point that out to try to state 8 that when we're looking at cures or proposed 9 treatments for different viruses, that we really 10 have to look at the fact that many -- much of 11 our information is coming from a source that is 12 certainly too close to many of the companies 13 that profit off of these types of ventures for 14 there to be a real and just survey. 15 So even this most recent study 16 that demonstrates that AZT has been helpful in 17 treating cases where the mother tested positive 18 for the HIV virus and that it was effective in 19 the treatment such that the child was born 20 testing negative for the HIV virus is something 21 that may be a step in the right direction, but I 22 think in many respects is being regarded as an 23 absolute fact when it was a study that only 2567 1 tested 900 women and could, in many ways, be 2 challenged by other medical evidence. 3 I'm not saying that the study is 4 wrong. I'm just saying that every time there is 5 any kind of a study that demonstrates the 6 slightest bit of improvement in conditions for 7 people who have become victims of the HIV virus, 8 there is national publication over these types 9 of issues when, in fact, there are people 10 walking around and the New York City Department 11 of Retrobiology, the Bureau of Immunology, has 12 tested people who now test HIV-negative who at 13 times tested HIV-positive; and so I'm saying I 14 would think that if that were the case that 15 there would be national headlines about who 16 these people are, but that the objection may be 17 to the type of treatment that they have 18 preferred, not AZT, DDI or DDC. 19 I challenge anyone in this 20 chamber to demonstrate to me any person who has 21 been treated with AZT for a period lasting over 22 three and a half years who has not suffered 23 immeasurable damage to their immune system. 2568 1 Well, why wouldn't that be the case? We're 2 treating an immuno-depressant virus with an 3 immuno-acute drug, and so in my opinion all AZT 4 does is it elevates the T-cell count of the 5 individual who is afflicted which, in many 6 cases, delays what is the impending fatality but 7 has never been shown and has never really ever 8 purported by anyone to have demonstrated any 9 kind of curing. 10 So when we start talking about 11 what we can do for people who have contracted 12 the HIV virus, Senator Velella is correct that 13 in cases where the baby sero-converts from 14 HIV-positive to HIV-negative within 18 months, 15 which I think some of the statistics run as high 16 as 65 percent of those babies doing that, the 17 breast-feeding of the child would certainly 18 contribute to a fatal medical situation because, 19 as Senator Velella very eloquently pointed out, 20 the mother is reinfecting her own child. 21 So that would be a very strong 22 argument for this information becoming 23 available. But when we start talking about 2569 1 needing to test so that we can start to provide 2 medical treatment, I find that to be in some 3 respects hypocritical if we are not going to 4 take a hard look at what those treatment - 5 proposed treatments may be and how in many 6 respects, we have taken AZT which was actually a 7 drug that was found not to be a good cure for 8 cancer, that was put into effect in the shortest 9 period of time that the American Medical 10 Association ever validated any such substance 11 and has now been operating as the main drug to 12 treat people with the HIV virus for over eight 13 and a half years that we have not really looked 14 into any other kind of treatment and anyone who 15 suggests any other kind of treatment is treated 16 like a pariah, and I think throughout history we 17 have found that there are men and women who took 18 first steps down new roads armed with nothing 19 but their own vision, and we're having that 20 problem today. 21 There have been too many periods 22 in history that every new invention was de 23 nounced and every new opinion was in many ways 2570 1 thwarted because we as a society were not even 2 interested in treating diseases but rather 3 created political implications to what the 4 diseases were, and we had that problem earlier 5 this century with tuberculosis. 6 So while I will vote for this 7 bill and would even consider Senator Velella's 8 bill, I think that it is for all of the zeal and 9 the energy that I'm hearing here today for 10 talking about how to test people, how can we 11 really test people when the reason that we're 12 getting such a low response to voluntary 13 testing, Senator Velella, I would suggest is 14 because people believe, and it is probably true 15 at this point that we do not know a cure for the 16 HIV virus, so in some respects other than the 17 fact that you would be reinfecting other people, 18 there is almost no positive reason to actually 19 know whether you have it or whether you do not 20 have it. 21 But what we can possibly do 22 through this discussion is to start talking 23 about giving opportunities to many of the health 2571 1 care investigators which the federal government 2 sponsors and has 945 of them right now, to 3 really start looking into whether or not we can 4 work at trying to eradicate this problem, what 5 has become a tragic problem in this society. 6 But I would suggest that I have 7 been in contact with researchers on this subject 8 who have said that they would like to try to 9 treat people who are in AIDS hospices, who are 10 in obviously a situation where even our own 11 medical communities feel that they have been 12 rendered in such a state that they cannot be 13 helped by any cure that we know of, and perhaps 14 try some other remedies. 15 I am not suggesting that there is 16 anybody in this country that knows a cure. I am 17 only proposing that our scope of investigation 18 has not been wide enough, and you would think 19 that it would be just the reverse when we 20 realize that we now have 300,000 cases 21 documented in this state, that we have 52,000 22 cases documented in New York and half of them 23 were documented after 1990, meaning all the 2572 1 cases up to 1990 were doubled in the last four 2 years. 3 I think it is a significant issue 4 that compels us to act. I'm happy that both 5 Senators have presented what would be their 6 initial approaches to how to treat it, but if we 7 are going to stand on principle in these 8 discussions, let's start discussing the 9 principle of how we have, in many ways, been 10 bamboozled into thinking that there are only a 11 couple of treatments for this virus and 12 impending disease when there are other 13 treatments that cannot get a public hearing. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 15 Tully. 16 SENATOR VELELLA: Excuse me. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 18 Velella. 19 SENATOR VELELLA: Would Senator 20 Paterson yield to a question? 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Sure. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 23 Paterson, would you yield? 2573 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator 2 Paterson, would you agree with me and I agree 3 with a lot that you said, that regardless of the 4 modality of treatment or the choices available, 5 the first step is in ascertaining out whether a 6 person does or does not have AIDS and letting 7 them know whether they have the disease and that 8 they should then be trying to seek out the best 9 available attention. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Without 11 question, Senator. 12 SENATOR VELELLA: And that either 13 one of these bills both try to do that. That's 14 what I wanted to point out. Thank you. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: I am in 16 complete agreement with that, Senator. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 18 Tully. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 I had not intended to prolong the 22 debate because I felt that this subject was so 23 significant and the support was so unanimous 2574 1 that we wouldn't have to go into it once I made 2 the initial statement that I made at the opening 3 of my remarks, that this was not a compromise 4 bill. 5 It is definitely not a compromise 6 bill. It is one that comes from the Health 7 Committee, from the chairman of the Health 8 Committee, and after a great deal of research, 9 and I now will indicate those who support the 10 bill because those who support the bill are far 11 more knowledgeable than I am or any of those who 12 spoke in this chamber today. 13 Supported by the Hospital 14 Association of the state of New York; the 15 American College of Obstetricians and 16 Gynecologists; the New York State Nurses' 17 Association, the American College of Nurse 18 Midwives; the New York City Health and Hospitals 19 Corporation; the Nassau-Suffolk Hospital 20 Council, the Bellevue Hospital Community Board, 21 the League of Women Voters; Family Planning 22 Advocates; the Community Family Planning 23 Council; Statewide Youth Advocacy; the Center 2575 1 for Reproductive Law and Policy; the Federation 2 of Protestant Welfare Agencies; Positively 3 Pediatrics, a local organization for parents of 4 children with AIDS; the National Association of 5 Social Workers, the New York State AIDS Advisory 6 Council; the AIDS Council of Northeastern New 7 York; the Nassau County HIV Commission, the New 8 York AIDS Coalition; the Long Island Association 9 for AIDS Care; the Rochester Area Task Force on 10 AIDS; the Central New York HIV Care Network; the 11 Black Leadership Commission on AIDS; Gay Men's 12 Health Crisis, and the following groups of 13 national physicians in favor of mandatory 14 counseling and against mandatory testing: The 15 American Academy of Pediatrics; the American 16 Medical Association, the American Public Health 17 Association, and the National Academy of 18 Sciences Institute of Medicine. 19 These people, as I said, have had 20 dealings with this monstrous problem. They're 21 far more knowledgeable. I think they know 22 whether a bill is, as some people have said, 23 politically correct, and they know that this 2576 1 bill is medically correct. It's the thing to 2 do. I'm not speaking of any other legislation. 3 I speak of mine only, but there is misin 4 formation that's been given today. 5 Senator Velella indicated that 6 the babies are tested for the virus under the 7 research tests today. They are not tested for 8 the virus. They're tested for antibodies. He 9 also said that it was possible for the child to 10 reject the virus. That's absolutely medically 11 impossible. If you have the virus, you die, 12 period, case closed. That's basic understanding 13 of the issue. 14 There's never been a case of an 15 AIDS child contracting polio. Harlem Hospital 16 has one hundred percent, not 99, one hundred 17 percent, it's identification of infected 18 infants. 75 to 80 percent of those who test 19 positive in this particular situation with the 20 current testing are fine. 21 AZT is definitely, Senator Gold, 22 extremely toxic, but it's the only game in 23 town. It's the only thing that helps those who 2577 1 are infected today. More importantly, and to be 2 understood with respect to this legislation 3 which does what it should do early, it precludes 4 HIV, the antibodies. It precludes the situation 5 of the virus and transmission by breast 6 feeding. 7 Under some thinking, people would 8 say, well, we'll let you know whether or not it 9 can be transmitted by breast-feeding, but 30 10 days later, that's too late. It's already too 11 late. 12 This is a baby saving bill. It's 13 not merely an identification situation after 14 birth. It's very significant that the fact is 15 that there are tests for the virus. They 16 haven't been mentioned today. It's the PCR 17 test, and it's usually given one month after 18 birth defects if the virus is in the blood, not 19 an antibody, but the virus. 20 This bill is timely. It's 21 important. It has no reference to any other 22 legislation. It's unanimously supported. There 23 is no known opposition to the bill, and I 2578 1 believe it should be passed. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 3 Stavisky. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 5 I'd like to ask Senator Velella if he would 6 yield for a question and then - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 8 Velella yields. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: And then 10 Senator Tully. 11 Senator Velella, is it your 12 opinion that, if this legislation passes, that 13 it will preclude the likelihood that subsequent 14 legislation will be sought in this session or in 15 -- or shortly thereafter in the form of 16 universal testing for babies to determine 17 whether they are infected with the AIDS virus? 18 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, it's 19 my understanding and, Senator Tully, in his 20 giving the names, he could have added my name 21 with those supporting the legislation. I will 22 support this legislation and on its merits it is 23 a good first step, as I said in my opening 2579 1 remarks. I don't believe it precludes other 2 legislation. No bill on this floor precludes 3 legislation following up or changing or 4 enhancing a bill. That's why we have chapter 5 amendments some time. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Just to 7 continue, Senator Velella. As you know, Senator 8 Velella, your legislation and Assemblywoman 9 Mayersohn's companion bill have had widespread 10 support from the advocates who believe that the 11 child cannot give informed consent, that the 12 baby needs to be protected and universal testing 13 of the baby is the only way that you can deal 14 with what is a human tragedy of enormous 15 proportions. 16 Do you feel that, in any sense, 17 that the momentum for your legislation will be 18 undercut by the adoption of this bill? 19 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator, I 20 don't and as a matter of fact, I think this 21 legislation has, in some degree, given me an 22 opportunity to provide some impetus for our 23 legislation and will increase the awareness of 2580 1 the house and the members of the Senate and the 2 Assembly hopefully, that there are some follow 3 up provisions that some members think will 4 strengthen this provision. 5 I do want to, while I'm on my 6 feet, apologize for misspeaking. I am not as 7 familiar with the terminology as perhaps some of 8 my colleagues. I used the word "virus" rather 9 than "antibody", so I meant to say "antibody". 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. I 11 have no further question of Senator Tully. I 12 think Senator Velella has expressed the position 13 sufficiently. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Will Senator 17 Tully yield for a question? 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I will, 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 23 think that there are often people who have a 2581 1 bunch of outrageous ideas who probably profiteer 2 on diseases such as this, and it's outstanding 3 that some of the consumer advocates in this 4 state, certainly the new public advocate of New 5 York, Mark Green when he was consumer protection 6 commissioner, for exposing these people for the 7 charlatans that they are, but at the same time, 8 I was a little disappointed to hear you say that 9 AZT is the only game in town when, in fact, I 10 don't know of a person that ever had -- was 11 diagnosed to have full-blown AIDS or even was 12 diagnosed as having the HIV virus that ever 13 survived after being treated with AZT which is 14 not only a highly toxic drug but actually 15 exacerbates the same virus that it's treating, 16 and so while I think I understood what you were 17 trying to say, I was just going to ask you if 18 you would rephrase it because it certainly 19 promotes a feeling that this is a drug that does 20 anything other than perhaps delay an inevitable 21 circumstance, but in delaying the inevitable 22 circumstance, it has been perpetuated on society 23 to such a degree that it is almost impossible to 2582 1 discuss any other alternqtive to an extent that, 2 if anyone even suggests one as opposed to the, 3 quote, "only game in town," it then becomes 4 incumbent on these individuals to perhaps have 5 their medical license challenged or, in fact, be 6 exposed themselves as if they are charlatans 7 when, in fact, they are researchers who are 8 trying very hard, as we all are, to find 9 something that will hopefully reverse this 10 deadly illness. 11 And so I just submit to you that 12 the discussion of AZT is one that has been 13 promoted to a higher level at a point when 14 consumers have been charged outrageous amounts 15 to receive AZT, when a number of pharmaceutical 16 companies have profiteered very immeasurably for 17 a drug that has not yet cured one person and 18 which is -- which is pretty much understood to 19 be something that only influences the T-cell 20 count in the body. 21 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 22 Senator. 23 Mr. President. 2583 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 2 Tully. 3 SENATOR TULLY: I stand by the 4 statement that it's the only game in town 5 because I was making reference to the fact that 6 this AZT dramatically reduces transmission of 7 HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, from infected 8 mothers to their newborns. 9 Now, this is not my statement. 10 This is the statement of Dr. Harold W. Jaffe, an 11 epidemiologist and the top scientist on HIV at 12 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 13 in Atlanta. He clearly stated that AZT and the 14 testing of the federal test is the first 15 indication that mother-to-child transmission of 16 HIV can be decreased, if not prevented, and it 17 will provide a real impetus for identifying more 18 HIV-infected women during pregnancies so that 19 they could consider the benefit of AZT treatment 20 to themselves and their children, and that is 21 the impetus of this legislation. Do it early 22 on. Don't do it after it's too late. Do it for 23 medically necessary purposes, period. 2584 1 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of the 6 first month following the 90th day after it 7 shall have become a law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 9 roll. Senator Gold to explain his vote. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 I unquestionably am going to 16 support the bill, Senator Tully, and I also want 17 to take the opportunity to congratulate Senator 18 Velella and Assemblywoman Mayersohn because this 19 is an issue that really is overwhelming. We 20 should be doing things about it, and thank God 21 we have a Nettie Mayersohn and you, Senator 22 Tully and Senator Velella, to work on it. 23 But I want to say one last 2585 1 thing. Senator Paterson, I heard every word you 2 said, and I'm glad you're saying it. I really 3 am. I think there are a lot of things being 4 said on both sides which are questionable. I'm 5 not a doctor, and I don't see any doctors around 6 in the room, but there's no doubt in my mind, 7 Senator Paterson, that there are many times in 8 this country where people are killed because 9 that is good for somebody's economics and maybe 10 we'll get to a point in history where that won't 11 happen. 12 I unquestionably believe that 13 there are things available called alternative 14 medicine and other ideas in the medical 15 profession which are not under any label, that 16 could save lives and which aren't allowed to be 17 processed properly, because it doesn't fit into 18 certain political and financial schemes. 19 So Senator Padavan -- Paterson, 20 I'm glad you said what you said. I vote for the 21 bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 23 Stavisky to explain his vote. 2586 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 2 I rise to explain my vote on the following 3 basis: Informed consent is an excellent concept, 4 but no one can give informed consent for an 5 infant. That infant, once born, has the right 6 to medical care and treatment that any other 7 living human being possesses, and it seems to me 8 that, because of ideology, sometimes selfish 9 ideology, we are failing to consider the 10 ramifications of this tragic disease and the 11 inability of an infant to give informed 12 consent. 13 What if the mother, after all the 14 counseling, still fails to give that informed 15 consent in behalf of the child in behalf of 16 testing? What then? This legislation goes part 17 of the way, but I could not in good conscience 18 vote for this bill with the feeling that it is 19 the last word by this Legislature on this issue, 20 and I urge Senator Tully and his colleagues on 21 the Health Committee to consider the 22 ramifications of universal and routine testing 23 after birth in addition to the legislation that 2587 1 we are passing today. The two together will 2 make a package that perhaps will provide some 3 partial remedy to this great tragedy. 4 I vote in the affirmative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 6 Stavisky in the affirmative. 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 I just would like to advise my colleagues that I 10 would say the same thing that Senator Tully 11 said, had I been provided that information, and 12 I think that that is correct, that is what the 13 study said, and Senator Tully is known as an 14 outstanding health care advocate and there have 15 to be some issues that we discuss in this 16 chamber where we rely on the facts that are 17 produced from studies and maybe this is a 18 cynical remark, Senator Tully, but it's 19 interesting to me that nine years after they 20 started using AZT, they finally found a study 21 that said that it does something for -- that 22 somebody can find something positive about it 23 because the drug has been under such criticism, 2588 1 and finally that criticism is coming to 2 fruition. 3 I'm not going to accuse anyone of 4 falsifying a study, but what I'm going to say 5 that reality has a way of following perception. 6 People want to believe it so they believe it, so 7 rather than referring you to any documents that 8 I can produce right now to discredit the study, 9 I would just refer you to Hans Christian 10 Anderson who wrote The Emperor's New Clothes, 11 and what I'm saying is very much like what 12 Senator Gold is saying, that the ideas of 13 alternative therapy have been so preempted and 14 so diminished and so discredited that we don't 15 even discuss them. 16 The fact is that a couple years, 17 a few years ago, the Kenyan government said that 18 they had a cure or a proposal for the HIV virus 19 known as Chemeron, and a number of African 20 American leaders went to Kenya to look into this 21 treatment. The fact is that the treatment 22 really doesn't help anybody that has the HIV 23 virus any more than AZT does, but it became very 2589 1 popular in the black community to talk about 2 this because it would have been so wonderful had 3 the Kenya government and Kenya researchers come 4 up with a cure that would have helped this 5 virus. But the mistake that many leaders in the 6 African-American community made was because it 7 seemed so wonderful that there had been this 8 proposal they latched onto the cure because it 9 was fashionable and it would have sounded very 10 great if that had been the cure. But meanwhile 11 the medical evidence, time after time, was 12 demonstrating that Chemeron was not a cure for 13 the HIV virus, and it should never be an issue 14 of race. It should never be an issue of class, 15 and those who supported it now wish they hadn't 16 because they got behind something that had not 17 been medically tested. 18 All I'm saying to my colleagues 19 today is that we have been for so long enduring 20 this drug that still has not cured one person 21 and they finally found one study that an 22 epidemiologist who is of great credential stands 23 behind and all of a sudden now, we may have 15 2590 1 studies that show that that's not the case, but 2 no one will listen to it because we've already 3 institutionalized it, and what I'm saying is 4 that that's what happened to AZT and DDI in the 5 first place. They became institutionalized 6 because somebody came up with a study that the 7 American Medical Association approved so quickly 8 that it would make your head spin. 9 So all I'm asking everyone here 10 is to keep your minds open to possible cures and 11 I vote in support of this bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 13 Paterson in the affirmative. Results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 would you call Senator Volker, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 21 Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 23 I'd like to call a meeting of -- immediate 2591 1 meeting of the Codes Committee in Room 332 for 2 the purpose of reporting one bill which is a 3 group of extenders that have run out or are 4 about to run out on the 15th of April. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 6 Immediate meeting of the Codes Committee, Room 7 332. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 can we return to reports of standing 11 committees. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 16 following bills directly for third reading: 17 Senate Bill Number 7671, by 18 Senator Stafford, an act to amend the State 19 Finance Law and the Public Authorities Law, in 20 relation to making technical corrections 21 relating to certain professional contracts. 22 Also Senate Bill Number -- Senate 23 Bill Number 7682, by the Committee on Rules, an 2592 1 act making an appropriation for the payment of 2 debt service obligations to the local 3 government. 4 Senate Bill Number 7681, by the 5 Committee on Rules, an act to provide for 6 payments to municipalities. 7 Senate Bill Number 7684, by the 8 Committee on Rules, an act making an 9 appropriation for the support of government. 10 Also Senate Bill Number 7683, by 11 the Committee on Rules, an act making an 12 appropriation for the support of government. 13 All bills reported directly for 14 third reading. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without 16 objection, third reading. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 will you call up Calendar 578. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 21 Secretary will read Calendar 578. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 578, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 2593 1 Bill Number 7681, an act to provide for payments 2 to municipalities. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I understand there's two messages at the desk 5 applying to this bill, and I move we accept 6 them. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All 8 those in favor of accepting the message, signify 9 by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The message is accepted. Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 21 one, Senator Maltese recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 23 is passed. 2594 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Will you call 3 up Calendar 579. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 5 Secretary will read Calendar 579. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 579, by the Senate Committee on rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 7682, an act making an appropriation 9 for the payment of debt service applications. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 11 Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 I understand there's a message of necessity and 14 a message of -- making the appropriation at the 15 desk. I move that we accept them. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All 17 those in favor of accepting the message? 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed nay. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 The message is accepted. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 2595 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 can we call up Calendar 580, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 14 Secretary will read Calendar 580. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 580, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Bill Number 7683, an act making appropriation 18 for the support of government. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 20 Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 I understand there's a message of necessity and 23 a message making the appropriation at the desk. 2596 1 I move we accept it. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All 3 those in favor of accepting the message? 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Those opposed nay. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 The message is accepted. Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 can we call up Calendar 581, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 21 Secretary will read Calendar 581. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 581, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 2597 1 Bill Number 7684, an act making appropriation 2 for the support of government. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 4 Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 I move that we accept the message of necessity 7 and the message making the appropriation which 8 is at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All 10 those in favor of accepting the message signify 11 by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 The message is accepted. Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 2598 1 is passed. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I move that we stand at ease awaiting a report 5 of the Codes Committee. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate 7 will stand at ease. 8 (The Senate stood at ease from 9 3:46 p.m. to 4:20 p.m.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate 11 will come to order. Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 can we return to reports of standing 14 committees. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: 16 Secretary will read reports of standing 17 committees. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker, 19 from the Committee on Codes, reports the 20 following bill directly for third reading: 21 Senate Bill Number 7693, by the Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 261 of the Laws 23 of 1987. 2599 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Without 2 objection, third reading. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 I understand there's a message of necessity at 6 the desk. I move we accept the message. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: All 8 those in favor of accepting the message? 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The message is accepted. Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 21 is - 22 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Ayes 23 50, nays one, Senator Pataki recorded in the 2600 1 negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there any 6 housekeeping or - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Any 8 housekeeping, motions, resolutions? 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Desk is clear? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: We're 11 all clear, Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 there being no further business, I move that we 14 adjourn until Monday, April 18th, at 3:00 p.m., 15 intervening days to be legislative days. I 16 would also like to advise the members that they 17 are subject to a call of the Majority Leader for 18 session upon 24 hours notice. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 20 Senate will stand adjourned until Monday, 3:00 21 p.m., being subject to call of the Majority 22 Leader on 24 hours notice. 23 (Whereupon at 4:24 p.m., the 2601 1 Senate adjourned. ) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8