Monday, April 25, 1994

2773 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 25, 1994 10 3:56 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR HUGH T. FARLEY, Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 2774 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 Senate will come to order. Senators will please 4 find their seats. 5 Please rise with me for the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 Today, in the absence of visiting 10 clergy, we'll bow our heads in a moment of 11 silent prayer. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 Secretary will begin by reading the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Sunday, April 24th. The Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 19 designation of the Temporary President. The 20 Journal of Saturday, April 23rd, was read and 21 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hearing 23 no objection, the Journal will stand approved as 2775 1 read. 2 The order of business: 3 Presentation of petitions. 4 Messages from the Assembly. 5 Messages from the Governor. We 6 have a message from the Governor. We have a 7 veto message from the Governor. Can't win 'em 8 all. 9 THE SECRETARY: The Governor 10 returned without executive approval Senate Bill 11 Number 6350, by Senator Volker and others, Veto 12 Number 2, an act to amend the Penal Law and the 13 Criminal Procedure Law, the Judiciary Law and 14 the County Law, in relation to the imposition of 15 the death penalty. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Message 17 is received. The bill will be laid on the 18 table, without objection. 19 Reports of standing committees. 20 No report. 21 Reports of select committees. 22 Communication and reports from 23 state officers. 2776 1 Motion and resolutions. Senator 2 Cook. 3 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 4 have a privileged resolution at the desk. Could 5 you read the title, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 Secetary will read the title of Senator Cook's 8 resolution. 9 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 10 Resolution, by Senator Cook, honoring Michael 11 K. Hood, upon the occasion of his designation 12 for special honor on April 27th, 1994 at the 13 annual dinner of the Delaware County Sheriff's 14 Department. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 16 favor of adopting the resolution, say aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Those opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The resolution is adopted. 21 Senator Cook. 22 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 23 would you also please place a star on Calendar 2777 1 Number 325, Senate Print 2277-A and - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 325 is 3 starred. 4 SENATOR COOK: And I wish to call 5 up my bill, Senate Print Number 6321, recalled 6 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 Secretary will read Senator Cook's bill. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 10 Number 6321, by Senator Stafford. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, 12 Senator Stafford's bill. 13 SENATOR COOK: Senator Stafford's 14 bill, I beg your pardon. 15 THE SECRETARY: An act in 16 relation to the creation of a fire district in 17 the town of Westport. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Cook. 20 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 21 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 22 bill was passed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2778 1 the roll on reconsideration of the bill. 2 (The Secretary called the roll on 3 reconsideration. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is before the house. 7 Senator Cook. 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 9 now offer, in behalf of Senator Stafford the 10 following amendments. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Amendments received. The bill will retain its 13 place. 14 SENATOR COOK: Also I move that 15 the following bills be discharged from its - 16 from committee and be recommitted with 17 instructions to strike the enacting clause: 18 Senate Bill Number 1912 and Senate Bill 4613. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bills -- the enacting clauses are struck and 21 recommitted without objection. 22 Senator Stafford. 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 2779 1 could I please announce an immediate meeting of 2 the Committee on Finance in Room 332. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 Finance Committee will meet immediately in Room 5 332. 6 Senator Wright. 7 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 8 on behalf of Senator Skelos, on page number 16, 9 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 10 Number 619, Senate Print Number 1296, and ask 11 that said bill retain its place on the Third 12 Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 16 on behalf of Senator Rath, on page number 16, I 17 offer the following amendments to Calendar 18 Number 630, Senate Print Number 7225, and ask 19 that said bill retain its place on Third Reading 20 Calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 22 objection. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 2780 1 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 9, I 2 offer the following amendments to Calendar 3 Number 465, Senate Print Number 2424, and ask 4 that said bill retain its place on the Third 5 Reading Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 7 objection. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 9 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 21, 10 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 11 Number 127, Senate Print Number 342, and ask 12 that said bill retain its place on the Third 13 Reading Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 15 objection. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: And request that 17 the star be removed on same bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 19 objection, the star is removed. 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Any 22 other motions on the floor? 23 We have a substitution. Senator 2781 1 Present, all right to substitute? Secretary will 2 read the substitution. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 20 of 4 today's calendar, Senator Hannon moves to 5 discharge the Committee on Housing and Community 6 Development from Assembly Bill Number 9554, and 7 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 8 656. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Substitution is ordered. 11 Any other motions? Any house 12 keeping? 13 Senator Present, are you ready 14 for the calendar? 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 let's take up the non-controversial calendar 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Secretary will read non-controversial. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 21 Calendar Number 282, by Senator Stafford, Senate 22 Bill Number 437-C, an act to amend the 23 Environmental Conservation Law. 2782 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, if I could 12 just explain my vote. 13 In the past, there's been a lot 14 of negatives on this, and my understanding is 15 that Senator Stafford has met the objections of 16 many of these groups, and at the present time 17 there's a memo in support from the Adirondack 18 Mountain Club, and I would vote in the 19 affirmative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 2783 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 455, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 9 6492-A, an act to amend the General Municipal 10 Law and the State Finance Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: What number 22 is that? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We were 2784 1 just on -- what was that? 455. 455, by Senator 2 LaValle. The bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 503, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 3999-A, 5 an act to amend the Civil Rights Law, granting 6 mothers an absolute right to breast feed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42, nays 15 one, Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the 16 negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 555, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 21 6633-A, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 2785 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You can 4 call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 586, by Senator Trunzo. 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: Lay that aside 12 for amendment, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 14 aside for the day. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 603, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 4871, 17 General Business Law, unlawful possession of 18 tobacco. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2786 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 4 please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 607, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 71-A, 9 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There's 11 a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 12 You can read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 21 that bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 610, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 7475, 2787 1 in relation to authorizing the Commissioner of 2 Transportation and others to develop and 3 implement a unified statewide system. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 611, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 7476, 16 authorizing the Commissioner of Transportation 17 to conduct a comprehensive review of the 18 feasibility of establishing permanent state 19 motor carrier inspection facilities. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 2788 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- ayes 40, 5 nays 3, Senators DeFrancisco, Farley and Wright 6 recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 618, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 11 Assembly Bill Number 11323, prevent loss of 12 state aid for education to the North Syracuse 13 Central School District. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 2789 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 625, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 2245, 3 Executive Law and the Family Court Act. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 626, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 3378, 16 an act to amend the Domestic Relations Law. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 629, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: What 2790 1 was that? 2 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 3 Number 6796, an act to amend the Social Services 4 Law. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 7 that bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 631, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 7466, 10 Domestic Relations Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 634, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 23 1591, an act to amend the Penal Law. 2791 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Laid 4 aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 638, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3639, 7 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 8 the issuance of licenses to have - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 11 that bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 639, by member of the Assembly Nolan, Assembly 14 Bill Number 6344-A, an act to amend the Penal 15 Law, in relation to prohibiting the criminal 16 sale of a police uniform. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2792 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 654, by Senator Hannon. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 8 that bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 656, substituted earlier today, by member of the 11 Assembly Lopez, Assembly Bill Number 9554, 12 Private Housing Finance Law, in relation to 13 loans to housing development fund companies. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 2793 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 657, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 3 7064, an act to amend the Education Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 658, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 16 7150, Education Law, in relation to filing State 17 University financial statements. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 2794 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 3 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 659, by Senator Seward. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Would you want to 9 lay that aside for the day, please? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Seward, do you wish to lay it aside for the 12 day? 13 SENATOR SEWARD: One day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 15 aside, for the day. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 660, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 18 7525, an act to amend the Education Law, in 19 relation to reporting requirements of the City 20 University. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2795 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 6 one, Senator Pataki recorded in the 7 negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is passed. 10 Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 12 could I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 13 the negative on 503, I believe, that passed 14 earlier? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, it 16 did. 503? 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: In the negative, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Libous is in the negative. 21 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Jones. 2796 1 SENATOR JONES: Yes, Mr. 2 President. Could I have unanimous consent to be 3 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 282? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 5 Senator Jones would be in the negative. Wait a 6 second. That didn't pass as yet. It did pass. 7 I'm sorry. 8 SENATOR JONES: All right. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: May I have 13 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 14 on 282, Calendar 282? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 16 Senator Stachowski is in the negative. 17 Senator Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, Mr. 19 President. May I have unanimous consent to be 20 recorded in the negative on Calendar 282? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 22 Senator Connor. 23 Senator Mendez in the negative on 2797 1 282? 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Got it. 4 Senator Present, that's the first 5 time through. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 I think we're ready for the controversial 8 calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 Secretary will read the controversial calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 15, 12 Calendar Number 603, by Senator Libous, Senate 13 Bill Number 4871, an act to amend the General 14 Business Law, in relation to unlawful possession 15 of tobacco with intent to use by persons under 16 the age of 18. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 18 question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Libous, would you yield to Senator Gold? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Gold, 22 always, sir. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator, I 2798 1 understand, I think, what you're getting at. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Gold, 3 I'm having a difficult time hearing you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 5 Let's have a little order in this house. Hold 6 your conversations outside the chamber, please. 7 Go ahead. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Senator, I 9 understand, I think, what you're trying to do 10 and I probably agree with everything. I'm just 11 curious, what happens to the -- to the young 12 ster? Supposing it's a 15-year-old person with 13 cigarettes. What -- I know there's a confisca 14 tion of the cigarettes. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Confiscation of 16 the cigarettes, possibility of a $50 fine, 17 violation. Very similar, Senator Gold, to what 18 we did with alcohol where possession would 19 result in a violation and just a -- it could be 20 the possibility of a fine, not necessarily 21 result in a fine. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 2799 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Negatives please raise your hands. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 603 are Senators 10 Cook, Farley, Galiber, Mendez, Montgomery, 11 Smith, Solomon, also Senator DeFrancisco, also 12 Senator Onorato, also Senator Johnson, also 13 Senator Daly, also Senator Velella, also Senator 14 Rath. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Results. Take your time. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 603 are Senators 19 Cook, Daly, DeFrancisco, DiCarlo, Farley, 20 Galiber, Johnson, Mendez, Montgomery, Rath, 21 Smith, Solomon and Velella, also Senators Connor 22 and Senator Present. Ayes 33, nays 15. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2800 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 607, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 71-A, 4 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and 5 the Education Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. Oh, hold on, 10 before you read the last section. There's a 11 local fiscal impact note here at the desk. Now, 12 you can read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 SENATOR HANNON: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Explanation has been asked for. Lay it aside, 21 Senator Present? 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 23 temporarily. 2801 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Oppenheimer. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Could I 6 have unanimous consent to be in the negative on 7 Calendar 282? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 9 Senator Oppenheimer is in the negative, without 10 objection. 11 626. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 6... 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Levy. Excuse me, Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 can we return to reports of standing committees. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, we 19 may. The Secretary will read a report of a 20 standing Committee on Finance, I believe. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 22 from - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: O.K. 2802 1 Hold on. Let's hold the conversations down to a 2 minimum. Go ahead. The Secretary will go to 3 regular order. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 626, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 3378, 6 an act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 7 relation to making technical change. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 629, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 6796, 20 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 21 relation to making reports from the statewide 22 central register. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 2803 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Daly. 3 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 4 think the best way I can begin to explain this 5 bill is to read a letter from a child protective 6 case worker who really gave me the thoughts of 7 introducing the bill, and it reads as follows: 8 "In my work as a child 9 protective case worker for Monroe County, I 10 encountered a situation in which I wanted to 11 share information with a parole officer on an 12 abusive father and found that SS 442 of the 13 Social Service Law does not permit my sharing 14 the information unless the individual has been 15 convicted under a certain kind of felony. The 16 case which I'm involved with concerns a father 17 who was found by Family Court to have raped and 18 sodomized his two daughters. Because he is in 19 jail for drug felony convictions, I'm not 20 allowed to share the Family Court order with the 21 parole officer for consideration at the parole 22 hearing. This was the decision of our legal 23 department." 2804 1 That starts -- that is the first 2 part of the letter that basically explains why I 3 have introduced this legislation. Very frankly, 4 it's to protect the child. We do believe that 5 in situations where a person who has been 6 convicted because of a drug-related, marijuana 7 related crimes should, when going before the 8 Parole Board, have his record as a child abuser 9 given to the Parole Board so that it, too, can 10 be taken into consideration. That's what the 11 bill does. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Will Senator 15 Daly yield? 16 SENATOR DALY: Certainly. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm 18 just trying to get a better understanding of the 19 bill, and I've been very concerned about the 20 mechanism that we have for the protection of 21 children from abuse. I don't think the 22 mechanism is working as we want it to work. 23 There are a lot of problems with the central 2805 1 register and with the way they conduct 2 investigations and the follow-up that's taken. 3 So anything that would make the central register 4 more effective and would help us in combatting 5 abuse and identifying people who might commit 6 abuse is to be commended. 7 I'm just trying to just 8 understand the bill, and I'm sorry I didn't have 9 a chance to look at it beforehand or to speak to 10 you, but as I understand it, you say that under 11 the current law that information may not be 12 given even where somebody was convicted of a 13 felony if that felony related to -- to a 14 controlled substance? 15 SENATOR DALY: Yes. May I just 16 cover the bill, Senator, perhaps and again I 17 should have explained it in more detail. 18 Under existing law, you can give 19 that information. If you look at the bill, line 20 17 - 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. 22 SENATOR DALY: -- of the bill, it 23 says subject had been convicted of a felony 2806 1 under Article 120, 125, or 135. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. 3 SENATOR DALY: We've added 220 or 4 225, which are the drug-related convictions. 5 The other -- the other articles mentioned there 6 are convictions for another -- other felonies. 7 So what -- under existing law, you can pass that 8 information along under certain felonies. We're 9 just adding a new felony. Right now, you can 10 not do it under a drug-related felony. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. 12 SENATOR DALY: We're saying with 13 a drug-related felony, you should be able to 14 pass that information along. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: And Senator, 16 are you saying that these are convictions? 17 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have no 19 objection. Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 2807 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 634, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 9 1591, an act to amend the Penal Law. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: One second. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: What's 12 he say? 13 SENATOR GOLD: One second. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: One 15 second. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 17 for the day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 19 that bill aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 638, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3639, 22 an act to amend the Penal Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 2808 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside, I guess. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Temporarily. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Temporarily. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 654, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 277, 8 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 9 city of New York and the Emergency Tenant 10 Protection Act. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 13 that bill aside temporarily, I guess, or Senator 14 Hannon? 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 temporarily. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 18 aside temporarily. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 can we stand at ease for a few moments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 23 will stand at ease. 2809 1 (The Senate stood at ease 2 briefly.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Levy. 5 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President, may 6 I have unanimous consent to be recorded in the 7 negative on Calendar Number 282. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 9 Senator Levy is in the negative. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 would you - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 14 on. The Senate will come to order. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 16 recognize Senator Goodman? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Goodman. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: May I please be 20 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 282? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Calendar 282, Senator Goodman is in the 23 negative. 2810 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 may we return to reports of standing committees? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, we 5 may. Secretary will read a report of a standing 6 committee. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 8 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 9 following bill directly for third reading: 10 Senate Bill Number 7795, an act providing for 11 payments to municipalities and to providers of 12 medical services under the medical assistance 13 program. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. No objection, third 16 reading. Senator Present, do you wish to have 17 its third reading now? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 is there a message of necessity - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 21 is, sir. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: -- at the 23 desk? 2811 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 2 there is. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 4 accept the message. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 6 favor of accepting the message, say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Those opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 message is accepted. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: May it have its 13 third reading at this time? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Your 15 pleasure. Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 23 bill is passed. 2812 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 2 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 3 following bill directly for third reading, 4 Senate Bill Number 7803, by the Senate Committee 5 on Rules, an act making an appropriation for the 6 support of government. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Directly to third reading. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 10 moves to discharge the Committee on Finance from 11 Assembly Bill Number 11440 and substitute it for 12 the identical third reading, Senate Bill Number 13 7803. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. There's a message 16 here, Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 are there two messages, one for appropriation 19 and one for necessity? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That's 21 right, sir. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 23 accept the messages. 2813 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 2 favor of accepting the message, say aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Those opposed, nay. 5 (There was no response.) 6 The message is accepted. Have 7 its third reading at this time? 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Have its third 9 reading. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 19 bill is passed. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Holland. 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: With unanimous 2814 1 consent, I'd like to be recorded in the negative 2 on Calendar Number 661. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 661, 4 Senator Holland is in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we return 8 to Calendar Number 638, please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 638, 10 the Secretary will read it. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 638, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 3639, 13 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 14 the issuance of licenses to have and carry 15 pistols. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Volker. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President - 20 oh, I'm sorry. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Volker. 2815 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah, I kind of 2 figured that. Sorry I didn't give the Minority 3 Leader his prerogatives. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 5 going to ask that the conversations be held to a 6 minimum so we can hear Senator Volker. 7 Go ahead. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Give the short 9 version. Mr. President. 10 This is a bill that's passed this 11 house on a number of occasions. What the bill 12 would do, very simply, is create a presumption 13 that a person of clean moral, criminal and 14 mental record or mental character has the proper 15 cause for the issuance of a license to carry a 16 pistol. 17 In all honor -- in all honesty, 18 the way in which this would work would basically 19 be the reverse of the way the system works 20 today, but if the system works today as well as 21 it should, then the same people that would be 22 approved under the present system would also be 23 approved under this system. 2816 1 The one thing that, in all 2 honesty, this would do would be to presumably 3 create a system that would more rapidly and 4 properly allow people with clean records to get 5 pistol permits in this state. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 7 the last section. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Hold it, hold it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Wait a 10 second. Why not? Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 12 yield to a question? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 14 SENATOR GOLD: First of all, 15 Senator, it's my understanding that the city of 16 New York which has opposed this in the past does 17 oppose it this year also. Do you have a memo 18 from them? 19 SENATOR VOLKER: The only memo I 20 have -- I saw somebody deliver a memo to you, a 21 copy to you, and I was going to ask you, very 22 honestly -- the only memo I have is a memo, from 23 1973 -- 1973! 1993, signed by John Bozzella. I 2817 1 do not have a memo from the City this year. I'm 2 not saying there isn't a memo, but they have not 3 conveyed it to us if there is. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, let me 5 ask you another question, if I may. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 7 SENATOR GOLD: The bill says, 8 starting at the bottom of page 1, "*** such 9 proper cause being presumed to exist unless the 10 prior moral, mental or criminal record of such 11 person indicates that good cause exists to 12 believe that any benefit accruing to such person 13 would be outweighed by potential dangers to the 14 public safety." 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 16 SENATOR GOLD: That's basically 17 the language. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: That's right. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Senator, who 20 is it that has the responsibility of making the 21 judgment as to whether or not the prior moral, 22 mental and criminal record, et cetera, et 23 cetera? 2818 1 SENATOR GOLD: The people that 2 make the judgment are the same people that make 3 the -- the same individuals or agencies that 4 make that judgment right now. As you know, the 5 system in New York City is different than the 6 system upstate. In upstate New York, the - 7 the -- there's a pistol permit bureau, for 8 instance, in my county, in Erie County, and the 9 investigation is done, fingerprints taken, so 10 forth. 11 Now, that would obviously 12 continue, the fingerprinting and the record 13 keeping, and so forth, but they would have to 14 check their records, and so forth, but then 15 ultimately the judge then approves the -- the 16 application for a pistol permit, and the same 17 exact system would occur under this bill as it 18 has occurred in the past. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 20 yield to a question, please? 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 22 SENATOR GOLD: What I'm getting 23 at, Senator, is the criminal record is something 2819 1 which I assume is not easily determinable, but 2 if you do fingerprints, I assume you get a 3 record back and if the person has been in 4 trouble and they are in the print charts, you've 5 got it. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 7 SENATOR GOLD: But Senator, under 8 your bill how does the -- the moral issue and 9 the mental issue come about? Are there 10 requirements that the people will submit some 11 kind of record? How do you prove affirmatively, 12 for example, these things so that a judge or 13 some other person can make the value judgment? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, you 15 would do it basically, I think, under the same 16 kind of thing that you should do today and that 17 is that you would have to show some sort of 18 evidence either from some agency or something 19 that would show that this person should not be 20 qualified. 21 One, for instance, would be some 22 sort of a -- I suppose an implication, traffic 23 records or something of that nature or as far as 2820 1 intoxication is concerned. There is a series of 2 things that could impact on -- on the issue of 3 whether a person has a clean moral -- moral 4 record, and so forth, but they would have to be 5 -- the only difference is that you would now 6 have a presumption and that presumption 7 obviously would have to be overcome and the 8 agency would then have to move affirmatively to 9 show that and they would have to show records, 10 not the way it is today where, in effect, what 11 happens in many cases is that issuing agencies 12 just sit on pistol permits in some cases and 13 just don't bother to issue them because there 14 might be some suspicion that there is 15 something. 16 They'd have to show affirmatively 17 that there is something that would keep the 18 pistol permit away from that individual. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Oh? Yeah? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Oh, yeah. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 22 believe Senator Dollinger has an amendment? I 23 yield to Senator Dollinger. 2821 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 4 President, I have an amendment that's at the 5 desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 7 is an amendment at the desk. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I waive it is 9 reading and ask that it be considered by the 10 chamber. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 12 right. Senator Dollinger on the amendment. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 14 President, this is an amendment that amends the 15 exact same section of the Penal Law that is the 16 current subject of debate. 17 As I understand Senator Volker's 18 bill 3639, it amends subdivision 2 of Section 19 400 of the Penal Law as amended by Chapter 175 20 of the Laws of 1981. The proposed amendment, 21 which I'm sure most of my colleagues are 22 familiar with, is the assault weapon bill that 23 has passed the Assembly and is the Governor's 2822 1 program bill. 2 In that bill, there is a 3 provision that amends Section 400, subdivision 2 4 of Section 400 of the Penal Law, the exact same 5 section that is the subject of this amendment. 6 Now, Mr. President, based on that 7 fact, can I consider the amendment germane and 8 may we debate the text of the amendment? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Well, 10 it's not my call. I'm just presiding here. 11 Unless somebody objects to its germaneness, I'd 12 consider it germane. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Volker. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: May I comment on 17 germaneness? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Point of 19 order. Has the germaneness issue been raised? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Nobody 21 raised it that I know of. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: All I was going 23 to say, Senator, is that we are not objecting to 2823 1 germaneness. Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Dollinger, you're germane. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, I'm so floored that I'm speechless. 6 Mr. President, it seems to me 7 that as we debate an issue that deals with 8 clean, moral character in the absence of a 9 criminal record or mental health record for 10 someone who is seeking a weapon, we ought to 11 define and we ought to apply that same test to 12 someone who wants to use a semi-automatic 13 assault weapon. 14 I've been in Rochester and in 15 Buffalo today announcing a petition drive to ask 16 the Senate to enact the assault weapon 17 restrictions that are part of the Governor's 18 program bill. I have on my lapel a sticker that 19 indicates that it's been a hundred days, 20 actually a hundred days technically is tomorrow, 21 but this is the 99th day that the people of this 22 state have waited for restrictions on assault 23 weapons so that we would treat weapons that can 2824 1 kill lots of people in a short amount of time 2 the same way we treat pistols, require that they 3 be put on a permit, require that the permit 4 holder come to the courts and come to the police 5 agencies of this state and have their character 6 and their fitness to possess these weapons 7 reviewed. 8 It seems to me that, if we're 9 going to send a message, we have to stop the 10 violence in this state, and one of the ways to 11 do it is to get these weapons of violence out of 12 the hands of our people whose hands they don't 13 belong in, and the way to do that is to do the 14 same thing that we've done with our pistols 15 which is require that they be subjected to the 16 permit process, so that all the protections and 17 the safeguards that that side of the aisle sees 18 in the permit process, that naturally adhere to 19 the permit process, will be a part of our 20 respect for these dangerous -- extremely 21 dangerous weapons. 22 I met today with one of the 23 victims of the Long Island Rail Road shooting 2825 1 and he described in graphic detail, in minute 2 detail, exactly what happened on the Long Island 3 Rail Road and how the killer was able to wipe 4 out several people in the back portion of that 5 car before anybody knew what had happened. All 6 he had to do was pull the trigger several times 7 and several lives of residents of this state 8 just were extinguished. 9 Then he told the story about how 10 the killer wandered down the middle of the aisle 11 firing at random. He told how he had fallen 12 down. He tried to get up and he turned his 13 shoulder, and the bullet had gone through the 14 shoulder. He fell under the seat and he tucked 15 his head under the seat and the killer walked up 16 and stood right over the top of him and he heard 17 him fire four shots, four shots right -- one 18 right after another: Click! Click! Click! 19 Click! He thought he was shooting into the seat 20 trying to kill him because he was hiding under 21 the seat. He wasn't doing that. He killed the 22 two people sitting in the seat next to him by 23 firing two shots each into their heads, all of 2826 1 that accomplished with a weapon that would be 2 covered by this bill. 3 It would now require that, in 4 order to get one of those weapons, you have to 5 have a permit in this state. I can't understand 6 the very subtle distinction that apparently is 7 so clearly seen by people on the other side of 8 the aisle, and that is the distinction between 9 the restrictions we're willing to put on pistols 10 and the absence of restrictions that we're 11 willing to tolerate on assault weapons. 12 I've said this before. I hope I 13 don't have to say it again. I hope today will 14 be the last time I say it, that it's time we 15 woke up to the dangers of violence in this state 16 and to the possibility and potential for 17 violence that these weapons -- assault weapons 18 represent. I know they're not a solution to the 19 criminal problem. I know we're not going to 20 stop crime and we may not stop violence, but we 21 can reduce the propensity for violence. 22 I described it to someone the 23 other day as very, very simple. You see a child 2827 1 in a day care center and he has one of those big 2 plastic baseball bats, and he walks around and 3 he taps a couple kids on the head and you walk 4 over to him and say, "Wait a minute; that's a 5 baseball bat. It's used to play baseball with, 6 but I'm going to take it away from you until you 7 know what it's to be used for, until you've got 8 that clean, moral character that demonstrates 9 that you're old enough to know that it's used 10 for baseball and not for hitting little kids 11 over the head." 12 Why, if we send that message to 13 the youngest residents of the state of New York 14 -- why, if every parent in this room wouldn't 15 take that baseball bat away from a child because 16 he doesn't know what to do with it, why wouldn't 17 we simply take assault weapons and restrict them 18 the same way we restrict pistols? 19 That's all this bill asks to do. 20 It seems to me it's very simple. Every parent 21 would do it. Every adult would do it, but yet 22 the New York State Legislature can't do it when 23 it comes to assault weapons. I really hope that 2828 1 this is the last time I have to debate this 2 issue. I hope I can take this hundred-day lapel 3 sticker off and, frankly, put it in my 4 collection of political memorabilia with other 5 pins and keepsakes. 6 I have a strange sense that this 7 won't be the last day we'll talk about assault 8 weapons, but it's a shame that the people of 9 this state, some of them have already died at 10 the hands of those using assault weapons and 11 those who might die in the future, that this 12 Legislature can't act consistent with what I 13 believe is the will of the people of this 14 state. 15 We have the courage to do many 16 things. Let's prove to the people of this state 17 that we have the courage to take this step and 18 reduce the violence that is terrifying our 19 citizens. 20 Mr. President, I'd urge all my 21 colleagues to vote to amend this Section 400 of 22 the New York State Penal Law and adopt the 23 remainder of this amendment so that we can have 2829 1 the restrictions on assault weapons in this 2 state. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 4 favor of Senator -- Senator - 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Go ahead. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 7 favor of Senator Dollinger's amendment, please 8 say aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Montgomery to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 13 you. On the amendment. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 15 amendment, I'm sorry. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I think my 17 colleagues here certainly know my position, but 18 I just don't want this opportunity to pass by 19 without going on record and saying once again I 20 absolutely am in support of Senator Dollinger's 21 amendment, and I am thankful that he is 22 continuing to keep this issue alive before us 23 because so many of my constituents have already 2830 1 died, and I hope that we do not ever forget how 2 many lives we have lost already to the violence 3 of assault weapons, and until the Legislature is 4 able to bring itself to do something about this 5 violence in our state, some of us must continue 6 to speak on it. 7 And so I want to say emphatically 8 that I hope that this amendment becomes the bill 9 and I know that, though I'm not wearing my 100 10 day badge, we all should be because that's how 11 many days, but it's been much longer than that, 12 and I've seen so many young children and teens 13 die, and it is -- there is nothing that is more 14 wrenching than when I attend a funeral of a 15 17-year-old who has been shot by an assault 16 weapon in my district and I have to face the 17 mother of that teen. There is no sadder 18 occasion than that, and every time I do that, I 19 feel that I have blood on my own hands and I 20 share that with each of you in this room. 21 We all have blood on our hands 22 until we step forward to try and make -- make a 23 change in that situation, and the young children 2831 1 that I speak for who have died because of 2 assault weapons being so accessible and so 3 available and so prevalent in my -- in my 4 district are neither Republican nor Democrat nor 5 Conservative nor Liberal. They are too far 6 removed from any of this process and, if we 7 don't do anything, they have no hope for those 8 ever and for those of them who are already dead, 9 we've lost them. But it's for those children 10 who say every day to me how fearful they are to 11 leave home and walk to school and to leave 12 school and walk back home and how many people 13 call me and say, "I have to sleep in the bath 14 tub or I put my children to bed in the bath tub 15 because I am afraid that they'll get a bullet 16 through their heads while they're sleeping" as 17 so many children in the city of New York. 18 So, Senator Dollinger, this is 19 not to be taken lightly; the amendment I think 20 is very serious. Whatever we do that at least 21 makes a statement that we want to see this 22 situation change in our state is significant and 23 important, and I think we ought to do that. So 2832 1 I support your amendment wholeheartedly. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Gold on the amendment. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 6 there are certain philosophies which you can use 7 in many different ways and the issue of open 8 government which has been pressed by Senator 9 Leichter and by Senator Dollinger and many 10 others, applies fiscally obviously, but it also 11 applies in this situation, and I'll tell you why 12 I say that. All too often, we are faced with 13 situations where the public wants something to 14 happen, parts of the public say that it 15 shouldn't happen, and we get into this situation 16 where the public will never know where we stand 17 because it's considered politically very clever 18 never to bring things up for a vote and, 19 therefore, we don't know what would have 20 happened and people can go around their 21 districts and basically at election time take 22 different positions because we've never brought 23 the issue out to vote. 2833 1 I've always hoped that we're 2 better than that. If we are against something 3 or we're for something, it's for reasons that we 4 ought to be proud of. Everything that we do in 5 this business is not easy and, believe me, I've 6 had letters to my editors. You have probably 7 had letters to your editors where somebody 8 thinks that something we did was wrong and they 9 write and they tell people that we're wrong and 10 that's part of this business. 11 I really think it is 12 unconscionable that we haven't been able to 13 bring the issue of assault weapons to this 14 floor. If the feeling of the majority of the 15 members is that it's something that is wrong 16 it's something that we should not pass into law, 17 I would assume it's because those people who 18 believe that way intellectually believe that 19 that's in the best interests of their 20 constituents or reflects their constituency and 21 we ought to be able to stand by that, look our 22 constituents in the eye and go on from there. 23 But it's such an overwhelming issue, it is 2834 1 really beyond logic when you realize that, if it 2 wasn't for Senator Dollinger pestering us, if 3 you want, about this issue, it's an issue that 4 many people on the other side of the aisle don't 5 even want to deal with and wish was under 6 somebody's carpet. 7 Now, I will tell you that, on a 8 scale of one to ten, Senator Dollinger, you are 9 a ten when it comes to pestering this house with 10 this issue, and I say God bless you for it, 11 because if wasn't for you, Senator Dollinger, on 12 a scale of one to ten, there are people who are 13 minus 30 in whether or not they even want to 14 hear the word again, and it really is absurd. 15 Now, I hear people, whenever you 16 get up on this issue or, somebody will say, 17 Well, but the killing on the Long Island Rail 18 Road may not have been an assault weapon and 19 that's just a semi-automatic hand gun, and this 20 bill this and this bill that, and my answer to 21 that is the same answer that I've seen from 22 another public official in this state who says, 23 in other words the logic is, if somebody will 2835 1 only go out tomorrow with a real assault weapon 2 and kill 30 people, then we can move the bill, 3 which is ridiculous logic. 4 We understand the dangers 5 involved in these weapons. We understand the 6 lack of need of hunters to go out there with 7 their assault weapons, and I don't think anybody 8 who's seen the distinguished gentleman with 9 Eddie Murphy -- with Eddie Murphy can remember 10 seeing these Washington people out with the gun 11 lobbyists and the ducks go flying by and they 12 start with the assault weapons, shells are 13 flying, bullets fly all over the place, and then 14 finally one bird falls and Eddie Murphy says, 15 "Gee, he must have had a heart attack." These 16 guys with their assault weapons weren't hitting 17 anything. 18 We're not doing this for the 19 hunters. We're not avoiding the debate on 20 assault weapons because of the hunters. It's 21 such a serious issue, it's so serious, and I 22 believe that, if it came to a vote, it would be 23 a tough vote for a lot of people in both ways 2836 1 going up or going down and I believe that with 2 so many other political issues, none of us are 3 going to get elected or defeated based upon one 4 vote, but I really do believe we have the 5 obligation to deal with it. How can we not deal 6 with it? That's so obscene. 7 Now, I happen to think Senator 8 Dollinger, after a hundred days of real 9 struggling and trying on your part, I think we 10 really do have a bill where it fits in and where 11 -- where we could amend it and go from there. 12 Now, lest some people are 13 concerned about the amendment process, let me 14 tell you that I have just had consultations with 15 the greatest powers in this town, and we are not 16 leaving here in three days so if we amend the 17 Volker bill we will not be out of session for 18 the 1994 legislative session before the 19 amendment has a chance to get back. We don't 20 have to worry about that. 21 I also, Senator Volker, can 22 guarantee you that, if you accept the amendment 23 and if it really was serious, we might even be 2837 1 able to get a message on it. That's how serious 2 it is. But one other thought lest anybody 3 thinks that this will somehow hold back the 4 legislative process. I asked Senator Volker a 5 question and Senator Volker has that terrible 6 disadvantage that he always answers honestly, I 7 know that, and I had only seen the 1993 memo in 8 opposition from the city of New York myself. 9 That's why I asked. But, Senator Volker, we 10 have been able -- we have been now served with a 11 memo dated April 19th, 1994, and this is from 12 Robert Harding, who represents now the 13 Republican mayor of the city of New York, so 14 we've had opposition from Democratic mayors, 15 Republican mayors. 16 This is not a party issue, 17 Senator Volker. The opposition on your main 18 bill is serious, many of us believe, and 19 obviously, transcends party affiliations so, 20 Senator, I don't think that if we amend your 21 bill today we're going to impede its progress 22 through the legislative halls because I don't 23 know whether it's going any place in the other 2838 1 house anyway, but I do think that it is a major 2 opportunity given to us by Senator Dollinger to, 3 once and for all, speak out on this issue and 4 get it before the body, get it before the body, 5 before there are other bodies that have gotten 6 it from assault weapons. 7 So, Senator, I am certainly going 8 to support you and, Senator Dollinger, I can 9 only speak for myself, but you have my permis 10 sion to be a pest on this issue every day. It's 11 an important one. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All - 13 Senator Waldon. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 15 realize I'm not at my desk, but please hear me 16 on this issue. 17 Some time ago, I read a book by 18 Mario Puzo, THE GODFATHER, and if you all recall 19 in that book there was a part that spoke to the 20 distribution of drugs, and through the orches 21 tration of the characters in this great book - 22 pardon me, technology -- it was stated, but 23 don't worry about it, it's just them. We'll 2839 1 just sell it in the black community and, if they 2 die, so what? We'll make some money. If they 3 suffer, so what? We'll make some money. 4 And because it was a black thing, 5 America did not address heroin and other forms 6 of drugs with the will that we should have, but 7 now what was once a black thing has spread 8 everywhere and, if you go along Hempstead Avenue 9 in my district, you'll see the cars coming from 10 Long Island -- the Jaguars, Mercedes, the 11 Porsches, you'll see Connecticut license plates 12 coming into areas with faces of young folk, men 13 and women, young men and women who don't look 14 anything like the guys with the dreadlocks on 15 the bicycles out there doing business. It is 16 now everybody's thing, and I don't think there's 17 anyone in this chamber who can say, "I don't 18 know of anyone who has not had an encounter with 19 drug addiction." It's even in some of our 20 families. 21 The point I'm trying to make is 22 that the assault weapon thing for many years had 23 been also characterized. It's their thing. 2840 1 They're down in the ghetto killin' each other 2 over drug turf. So what? So what? 3 My brothers and sisters, the Long 4 Island Rail Road was a place where people fell 5 asleep on the train in the cocoon of comfort 6 that this is our thing, middle class suburbia. 7 This doesn't touch us. I can fall asleep with 8 my pocketbook on the chair next to me and not 9 worry about it being ripped off because the 10 stain of criminality doesn't touch us on the 11 Long Island Rail Road. 12 But now some deaths later, some 13 pain and suffering later, I hope you can 14 recognize that it is no longer the black thing. 15 It is no longer the ghetto thing. It is no 16 longer the rat-a-tat-tat of bullets taking lives 17 in that community because it's taking lives in 18 every community, so I would applaud you if you 19 would join Senator Dollinger in this effort and 20 recognize the genius of what he's done. 21 I would applaud you if you had 22 the courage to say nay to the National Rifle 23 Association in its foolhardy pursuit to arm 2841 1 America. For what? This is a good amendment. 2 If we are judicious, if we are caring about 3 humanlife, if we are concerned about the 4 constituents we serve across the broad breadth 5 of this state and our children, we will vote for 6 this amendment and take a great step forward in 7 eliminating violence from all of our 8 communities. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 11 you. On the amendment. Oh, I'm sorry. Senator 12 Nanula. 13 SENATOR NANULA: Like to speak on 14 the amendment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Nanula, sorry. 17 SENATOR NANULA: I want to start 18 by saying I also want to commend Senator 19 Dollinger in his efforts that he's placed, as 20 Senator Gold so kindly says, badgering us and 21 pestering us over the past several months with 22 this legislation, and I had the pleasure of 23 meeting Tom McDermott today. I met with Tom 2842 1 McDermott in Mayor Masiello's office. We had a 2 press conference this afternoon, and, you know, 3 when you meet Tom McDermott, you listen to him 4 speak and you listen to his plea for this bill 5 and a plea for tougher legislation in regards 6 the assault weapons, you realize something. You 7 realize this man isn't a drug dealer. This man 8 isn't a 15-year-old victim in the inner city. 9 He's an articulate, hard-working middle, maybe 10 even upper class citizen, tax-paying citizen, 11 somebody who's concerned, and ironically 12 somebody who is a victim of an assault weapon, 13 not in the inner city but on the Long Island 14 Expressway. 15 But getting back to the mayor's 16 office, when the mayor held up that assault 17 weapon, he pointed it at the cameras, he then 18 referred to the teen-agers who had been brutally 19 murdered in our city, the city that I now 20 represent, the east side of Buffalo, the inner 21 city, not over the past years but over the past 22 weeks, by gang violence, drug-related killings, 23 and you look at that weapon. That isn't a 2843 1 six-shooter. It's not a revolver. It's a 2 weapon, but it's not a weapon designed to 3 protect. It's a weapon designed to kill. It's 4 a weapon you might see on a soldier, not a 5 weapon you might see on a hunter. And it brings 6 forth an even bigger issue, one that addresses 7 this amendment specifically and that is that 8 Senator Dollinger is not looking in this 9 legislation to outlaw assault weapons. He's 10 only simply looking to mandate the same type of 11 regulation that exists when somebody is going to 12 get a pistol in this state, the pistol permit 13 for these types of weapons. 14 It is too easy in this state to 15 receive an assault weapon. It is too easy to 16 kill with an assault weapon. It is too easy to 17 kill a massive amount of people in a quick 18 period of time with an assault weapon, and I 19 implore, along with Senator Gold and along with 20 Senator Dollinger, as many of us on both sides 21 of the aisle to pass this amendment. 22 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2844 1 Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 I'd like to add my voice to those 5 who say at long last we have a germane vote on 6 this amendment. I guess it proves that you can 7 run but you can't hide when the people really 8 want legislation to address a real problem, a 9 problem that affects the lives of citizens in 10 this state that has taken so many lives, 11 including so many innocent children caught in 12 cross-fires. It's happened in my district. I 13 would remind some of my colleagues, or my 14 colleague from Brooklyn on the other side of the 15 aisle that we lost a principal last year, 16 Patrick Daley, who was out looking for a young 17 child, young grade school child, and was simply 18 walking across a sidewalk when warfare broke out 19 between competing gangs with these 20 semi-automatic weapons and he was killed in the 21 cross-fire, and the whole city wept for this man 22 who was -- who had dedicated his life to 23 educating our children in a very poor part of 2845 1 town in Red Hook; and we've seen tragedy after 2 tragedy. It struck on the Long Island Rail 3 Road, it's struck around the state. 4 Now, let me say, while I 5 represent New York City, and I think of myself 6 as someone from New York City, I was not born 7 and bred in New York City. I couldn't wait when 8 I was 13 years old to get my hunting license to 9 go out with my grandfather and my uncles -- my 10 father never went in for it much -- but to go 11 hunting. Semi-automatic weapons? They have no 12 place for sports persons on the hunt. You can't 13 go stalking deer with a semi-automatic. That's 14 not what they're for. They're for killing. 15 They're soldiers' weapons. And the public has 16 it right and the public has it, if you've looked 17 at your polls, the public wants a law to ban 18 semi-automatic weapons, and I know those of you 19 who will say, well, you think because it's 20 against the law those drug dealers who are 21 spraying projects in New York and in other 22 cities and spraying streets that just because 23 it's against the law they're not going to have 2846 1 -- they're not going to throw down their semi 2 automatics. Of course, they're not. 3 It's illegal for them to be 4 shooting up the neighborhoods, but the fact of 5 the matter is until we address the issue of the 6 legitimate sales we're not going -- and ban the 7 presently legal sale of these weapons, we're not 8 going to be in a position to stop manufacturers 9 from pumping them out. We're not going to be 10 able to prevent the box that falls off the truck 11 on the way to a legitimate firearms distributor 12 from ending up on the streets. The place to 13 start is right here banning them, saying there 14 is no legitimate use. 15 Now, I know there will be those 16 on the other side of the aisle who will try and 17 go back to their constituents and say, it was 18 only an amendment, it was a procedural vote. It 19 wasn't really a ban. Well, go explain to the 20 civics classes in your district that amendments 21 aren't real. You all print up brochures about 22 how to make a law and you mention amendments as 23 one of the ways to make a law, and it's as old 2847 1 as representative government to have that kind 2 of debate on the floor. 3 Go explain to your constituents, 4 Oh, we have a strong leader system, we have an 5 excessive majoritarian fetish in this New York 6 State Senate, and so we don't accept from any 7 body in the Minority amendments or suggestions 8 about laws. 9 The fact of the matter is to date 10 this is the only vote, the only vote you're 11 going to take on an assault weapons ban. Go 12 explain that to your constituents when you vote 13 no. 14 Now, let's talk real. Oh, you 15 don't like some of the language in Senator 16 Dollinger's bill. You want an assault weapons 17 ban, but you want to negotiate some of the edges 18 of it. Well, you all know the rules of this 19 house. You all know the state Constitution. If 20 we adopt this amendment, we'll have three 21 session days at least for the resulting bill to 22 age and you can negotiate at the edges of this 23 bill. You can change the language a little bit 2848 1 if you want, but you also know, if you vote this 2 amendment down -- if you vote this amendment 3 down, you just might not get another chance 4 before you have to face those voters this year. 5 Go explain to 'em how you voted against an 6 amendment that would have abandoned -- banned - 7 that would have banned assault weapons. That's 8 not a political task I'd want to undertake this 9 year, because the public wants this, because 10 it's the right thing to do and they're fed up 11 with the slaughter and they want to start 12 somewhere and the place to start is to say the 13 sale of these weapons is never legal in this 14 state. Then we can worry about what the 15 manufacturers and distributors do after that. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Did you 17 -- did Senator Stavisky -- did you wish to 18 speak? 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Did you 21 want to rise or just from your seat or what? 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Just on the 23 amendment, yes. 2849 1 I know it is very difficult to 2 face the National Rifle Association when they 3 appear to be so powerful, so influential in your 4 district. I sponsored in 1968, the year in 5 which Senator Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther 6 King were executed -- and that's the only way to 7 describe it -- I sponsored gun control 8 legislation, and I was told that I had offended 9 the National Rifle Association. Lo and behold, 10 they formed, in the most conservative part of my 11 district, which was then my district and 12 remained my district, as a matter of fact on and 13 off until 1992, they formed a sportsmen's club, 14 a Queens Sportsmen's Club in my district for the 15 purpose of defeating me the next time I ran. 16 That was 1968. 17 This is 1994. I'm still here. 18 The National Rifle Association couldn't kill me, 19 but I assure you the assault weapons could. The 20 NRA, so powerful you think, cannot defeat a 21 legislator on a single issue. As a matter of 22 fact, a year and a half later, the president of 23 the Queens Sportsmen's League, the chapter of 2850 1 the NRA, called me and wanted to meet with me 2 and I said, "Armed or unarmed?" And he said, 3 "Unarmed." I said, "Well, then it can be your 4 living room or mine." They told me that they 5 had been formed for the purpose of opposing me 6 because, on a monthly basis, I debated the 7 national president of the NRA and the national 8 vice-president of the NRA. It was going on and 9 on, and they said, "You know, we were formed in 10 order to defeat you and you know what has 11 happened? We ended up voting for you anyway 12 because we respected what you do on a variety of 13 other issues, including conservation issues," 14 and that's an important lesson for everybody to 15 keep in mind, whether where the NRA or any other 16 special interest organization on a single issue 17 or against them on a single issue. 18 They will never be able to defeat 19 you if you're doing your job. If you're serving 20 your constituents, what do you have to fear? If 21 you're serving your constituents, whom do you 22 have to fear? They're not going to defeat you, 23 but one of these assault weapons is more than 2851 1 likely to kill one or more of your 2 constituents. And given that choice, ladies and 3 gentlemen, it really isn't a choice. You can be 4 courageous and you can be right and you can do 5 what is best for your constituents by supporting 6 the amendment that has been introduced here and 7 other amendments. 8 Don't be so afraid of the NRA. 9 They will not be able to unseat you if you are 10 doing your job and if you're not doing your job 11 you're a clay pidgeon for them anyway. So I 12 hope you will vote for the amendment and get a 13 comprehensive assault weapon bill through in 14 this chamber in this session of the 15 Legislature. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Dollinger to close. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, I want to thank my colleagues for 20 joining the voices of what I believe are 21 thousands if not millions of New Yorkers, who 22 are crying for restrictions on assault weapons. 23 When I first got involved in politics in the 2852 1 early 1970s, I grew up in the -- in the arms 2 limitation treaty era. I remember the United 3 States Senate debating SALT and the arms 4 limitation treaty, the START treaty, all the 5 treaties in which the United States of America 6 had to decide how the most lethal of weapons, 7 nuclear weapons, would be controlled for the 8 rest of our future, and I remember impassioned 9 debates on both sides of that issue by men of 10 good will, by women of good will; but I remember 11 that there was a common theme, and it was very 12 simple. These weapons have the power to destroy 13 us and we have to somehow control and manage 14 their use. 15 It seems to me in this era of 16 terrorism, in this era of individual violence 17 that the weapons we're talking about are weapons 18 of potential mass violence as exhibited on the 19 Long Island Rail Road, as exhibited on the 20 Brooklyn Bridge. Some ways that's a shame that 21 these familiar landmarks are becoming the sign 22 posts of a losing struggle in the fight against 23 assault weapons, but it seems to me that this 2853 1 Senate has an opportunity to do what the United 2 States Senate did on a number of occasions, not 3 only debate a bill of critical importance, but 4 in this instance to put some limitations on a 5 domestic arms race. 6 As one speaker described it in my 7 travels today, "We, the unarmed, turn to you, 8 those of whom we've armed with legislative power 9 to do the right thing." 10 We have a weapon in this chamber 11 that's more powerful than assault weapons. It's 12 the power of the vote. It's the power of law. 13 In my judgment, we have an obligation to use 14 that weapon to demobilize, demilitarize our 15 population, reduce the propensity of violence 16 and maybe make everybody in this state feel a 17 little bit safer in their homes, while driving 18 on the Brooklyn Bridge, or while riding on the 19 Long Island Rail Road. 20 It's that simple. I would urge 21 all my colleagues, let's end the nightmare. 22 Let's wake up about the issue of guns. Let's 23 restrict access to assault weapons and make New 2854 1 York a safer place. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 3 favor of the amendment, say aye. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 5 affirmative on the amendment. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Exception. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Exceptions. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 10 the affirmative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Party 12 vote with exceptions. Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22, nays 36, 15 party vote with exception. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 amendment is not accepted. 18 Read the last section of the 19 bill. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Oh, 22 Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2855 1 in the debate on Senator Dollinger's amendment, 2 I think many of the points and issues relating 3 to the ready availability, proliferation of 4 lethal weapons in our society have been 5 discussed. 6 I think anybody who listened to 7 Senator Montgomery could not have helped and 8 been moved by her very poignant plea, the plea 9 from her community and from other communities in 10 New York, save us from the violence, save us 11 from the killings; but I think it's important to 12 look specifically at what this bill does. At a 13 time when all efforts nationally are being made 14 towards trying to get hand guns off the street, 15 yes, illegal hand guns, but recognizing the 16 relationship between licensing laws and the 17 availability of guns and access to guns and the 18 killing that occurs in our streets through hand 19 guns, at a time that this effort is going on, it 20 is -- it is incomprehensible to me that we would 21 be faced with a bill that's going to make it 22 easier for people to have access to guns that 23 kill. 2856 1 What this bill does is say, you 2 will presume that somebody has good cause to be 3 issued a license to have a hand gun, and it's 4 for that reason that the mayor of the city of 5 New York -- nobody's ever said that he was soft 6 on crime or permissive or that he didn't share 7 Republican and Conservative values; obviously he 8 is a Republican -- and he has come out and said, 9 "For God's sakes, don't pass this bill." You 10 will make more weapons available in the city of 11 New York, and, my colleagues, it just grieves me 12 to think that this chamber is so out of touch 13 with the needs of our community, with the needs 14 of our society, that you would pass such a bill 15 and I assume you put it out on the floor, you 16 know you have the votes, but I'll tell you, it's 17 a stain, it's a stain on this Majority for 18 inflicting this harm on the city of New York and 19 other communities in the state of New York. 20 Senator Dollinger, I just want to 21 say that I commend you for not giving up on the 22 battle to try to have this chamber face up to 23 the issue of assault weapons. I think you have 2857 1 not been dissuaded by some of the grumblings one 2 hears that, you know, why does he keep on 3 raising this issue, and I think that's really 4 what needs to be done is to challenge the in 5 difference, the callousness, the cynicism which 6 prevents us from voting on a bill banning 7 assault weapons and which also, I think, is at 8 the heart of an effort to make it easier for 9 people to possess lethal hand guns. 10 I mean the statistics are so 11 overwhelming and so clear about the harm that is 12 being done, and I know that there are some 13 people here that still say, Well, guns don't 14 kill, people kill. But people can't kill if 15 they don't have guns, and our aim and our effort 16 should be to make it much harder for people to 17 have access to guns, to show, to document very 18 clearly the reason and the purpose for having 19 guns and not to presume that people have good 20 cause to possess guns and, even if that 21 presumption were correct and we know how many 22 people fall through the cracks, the fact of the 23 matter is that many of the guns that are legally 2858 1 on the streets of our city are guns that were 2 stolen from people that may have initially had 3 them. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: May I interrupt 5 you for one minute? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 may I have the last section of this bill read 10 and have Senator Larkin cast his vote? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section for Senator Larkin. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 November next succeeding the date on which it 16 shall have become a law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Larkin, how do you vote? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: I vote aye. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Withdraw the 21 roll call and continue the debate. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Sure. 23 Senator Leichter. 2859 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: And we have 2 thousands of these guns on the streets that may 3 have been sold initially legally. In fact, 4 there was a study made initially, in fact it was 5 made by the Minority in the Assembly, the 6 Republicans there about guns that had been sold 7 by the State Police, obsolete guns sold by the 8 State Police which ended up in the hands of 9 criminals and were used to commit capital 10 crimes. 11 We also know the statistics of 12 accidents that occur in the home because 13 presently we sell guns to people who don't know 14 how to use guns; you don't have a requirement 15 that people show that they have the proficiency 16 and the skill of using guns, and a week doesn't 17 pass by that some young kid doesn't find a gun 18 which may be perfectly legally in the home and 19 that he starts playing around with and ends up 20 shooting himself or member of the family or 21 friend which also comes because we don't have 22 requirement that people be trained before guns 23 are issued to them. 2860 1 Senator Volker, I know your 2 concern and good faith in trying to create a 3 safer community. Maybe some people are scared 4 of the NRA. I know you're not. I guess I'm 5 almost more grieved about the fact that you 6 really believe this than that you may be doing 7 it because you feel there's a gun at your head, 8 a political gun. I know you believe it, and I'm 9 sorry for it and I could just plead, however, 10 with those of my colleagues, particularly from 11 the city of New York, those Republicans from the 12 city of New York to read the memorandum in 13 opposition by the city of New York, to see what 14 the mayor, to see what our very vigorous police 15 commissioners say, Please don't do this. 16 We have a particular problem in 17 our city and, Senator Maltese, you know this 18 and, Senator Padavan, you know this, Senator 19 Mega knows it and Senator DiCarlo knows it. It 20 is particularly having in mind the problems in 21 our City that we need strict controls over the 22 issuance of guns. 23 I really plead with you not to 2861 1 vote for this bill. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 4 I have a list here and it's Senator Volker 5 unless you want to yield, Senator Volker and 6 then Senator Stavisky and Senator Johnson, but 7 Senator Volker has the floor. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 9 the -- let me try to be brief here. 10 First of all, let me correct 11 something because I think it needs to be 12 corrected, and I -- Senator Leichter, the 13 amendment that was just proposed was not a ban. 14 It was a licensing bill. The ironic twist about 15 that so-called amendment is, I think it's pretty 16 -- it's defective on its face, and I didn't 17 want to get into an argument because I realize 18 Senator Dollinger has been waiting for so long 19 to get his opportunity to debate this amendment 20 which, in the meantime, at -- the federal 21 government, by the way, has banned several of 22 the weapons that are in that -- in your bill 23 which your bill or your amendment would 2862 1 basically license two guns, the "street sweeper" 2 and another one which have already been banned. 3 The other interesting thing about 4 that so-called amendment -- that bill that the 5 Governor sent us is, there's a real question as 6 to whether it would invalidate some statutes in 7 the city of New York. You take a look because 8 the local laws in the city of New York are more 9 stringent than that amendment that many people 10 just voted for and, as you question whether the 11 local laws of the city of New York and, 12 remember, the city of New York definitely has 13 the toughest gun laws in this part of the 14 country; D.C. claims it's the toughest in the 15 nation. You say you have a particular problem. 16 Well, you have the toughest gun law certainly in 17 this state and one of the toughest in the 18 country, and it doesn't seem to have done very 19 much. 20 Let me also point out the gun 21 used by Mr. Ferguson on the Long Island Rail 22 Road was already illegal. You don't need to 23 make it illegal. It was illegal. It was an 2863 1 unlicensed hand gun in this state, clearly 2 illegal. Everyone acknowledges that. The 3 press, for the most part, had no concept of 4 that. Many people do not understand that. I 5 think the argument, by the way, is very clear 6 that you could make it illegal however many 7 times you wanted, if that fellow was going to 8 use the gun he was going to use the gun. 9 The other thing I just wanted to 10 say because I think it needs to be said, one of 11 the things that was said by a number of people 12 and let me point out something, and I do this 13 with absolutely no animosity, because I think 14 you know me and I feel very strongly and I have 15 -- and I appreciated, by the way, your 16 comments, Franz, because you and I probably have 17 debated almost as long as anybody in this 18 chamber going up from the Assembly right over to 19 the Senate -- if you wanted to send a message, 20 you had the opportunity to send a message here. 21 It was interesting that every person that spoke 22 in favor of the gun amendment was opposed to the 23 death penalty. 2864 1 The only reason I say that is 2 that even the most ardent anti-gun person, even 3 the person most ardently who is in favor of 4 getting rid of, quote-unquote, semi-automatic 5 weapons, which -- by the way, I just listened 6 the other night again to a police officer 7 talking about a weapon that would fire a 8 semi-automatic weapon that would fire 36 rounds 9 in ten seconds which, of course, is impossible. 10 It was clearly an automatic weapon which is 11 already illegal. In fact, Senator Daly has a 12 bill which would deal with that issue. In fact, 13 he's going to outlaw automatic weapons again 14 because most of the semi-automatic people 15 weapons that people talk about are already 16 outlawed. They're automatic weapons; they're 17 not semi-automatic. 18 There's so much nonsense 19 connected with this whole issue, it's 20 unbelievable. 21 Now, everyone has had their say 22 and I think I understand it, but in the long 23 run, the real issue here is crime. Let me tell 2865 1 you something. Three people were just murdered 2 in Buffalo over the week end. Your legislation 3 provides nothing for that because all three of 4 those people were viciously stabbed to death 5 repeatedly. Unfortunately, as I understand it, 6 it wasn't a random killing, it was somebody that 7 was related. It related to some money, and so 8 forth, and I don't want to get into it because I 9 don't have the whole facts of the case, but I do 10 know that the likelihood is that it was someone 11 that knew these people. 12 The point I'm trying to make is 13 whether somebody is shot to death or stabbed to 14 death, the result is the same. The ugly facts 15 are that whatever we talk about, no bill that 16 bans weapons is going to change that. I still 17 firmly believe, and I still stand here to tell 18 you that we had our opportunity and we still 19 have it, by the way, because you're going to see 20 it again. You haven't seen the last of the 21 death penalty. The Governor would like to say 22 that you have but, as I said before, the reason 23 you haven't heard as much from the Governor on 2866 1 assault weapons is, the more he pushed assault 2 weapons the more the death penalty became an 3 issue, and he realized that and he stopped it. 4 But I'll be back and so will he because I'm not 5 going to give up on that issue. 6 But, Senators, let me tell you as 7 far as this bill is concerned, it really doesn't 8 change anything that much. It's not going to 9 mean that there's going to be a whole ton of new 10 licensed people out there in the street. In 11 fact, the city of New York will still try to 12 find ways to stop people from getting their 13 weapons, I'm sure, as they have done for years 14 and, of course, if those people are not people 15 that should get weapons they won't get weapons. 16 It will be nothing different. 17 As you know, it has always 18 rankled people. I just talked to an attorney 19 the other day who said he won't go to the city 20 of New York any more because he can't carry his 21 hand gun, a sad commentary, because it's the 22 only place in the state where he can't and, 23 therefore, he won't go to New York any more 2867 1 because he's too afraid. 2 What this bill does is merely say 3 what supposedly licensing statutes do not, and 4 that is if you are a person who should be able 5 to get a license for a hand gun, you get one, 6 and that's all it really says. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, with the 11 permission of the Majority Leader, if we could 12 just call Senator Smith's name so that she could 13 be allowed to vote. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: And Senator 15 Seward. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section for Senator Smith and Senator 18 Seward. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 Senator Smith. 21 SENATOR SMITH: No. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Seward, how do you vote? 2868 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Oh! 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Close 5 the roll, Senator? 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes, withdraw 7 the roll call. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Withdraw the roll call. 10 Senator Volker, have you 11 finished, I guess? Senator Stavisky is next. 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 13 Volker, would you yield for a question? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Doesn't this 16 piece of legislation restrict the discretionary 17 power that the police commissioner of the city 18 of New York presently has with regard to the 19 issuance of licenses and permits? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: It technically 21 does not, because what the process is in the 22 city of New York supposedly is what this process 23 is except for the fact that we, in a sense, 2869 1 reverse it and we say that there is a 2 presumption unless you can show that that person 3 doesn't have a clean moral, and so forth, 4 record. 5 Under the way the process goes in 6 the City, and it is a much more cumbersome 7 process, the so-called police commissioner or 8 whoever, the pistol permit bureau, takes on a 9 responsibility and puts on all kinds of 10 restrictions which, by the way, is before the 11 Court of Appeals right now or will be tomorrow, 12 I think it is, on the issue of whether state 13 wide, including the city of New York, if I'm not 14 mistaken, whether the restrictions that are put 15 on by the various agencies are legal in the long 16 run. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 18 Volker, you believe in home rule for a local 19 government? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Do I believe in 21 home rule for a local government? Generally 22 speaking, I do believe in home rule. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. What if 2870 1 statutes were drafted, Senator Volker -- and I'm 2 not going to ask you do answer this question 3 because you've satisfied me on your responses. 4 What if statutes were drafted which took away 5 the right of local government to decide a whole 6 host of issues such as zoning, building, 7 placement of facilities with the approval of 8 local government, and what if we drafted 9 legislation here saying that the people who 10 applied shall be presumed to have the right to 11 evade local decision-making because they are of 12 good moral character? 13 I believe, Senator Volker, that 14 you and your colleagues would be on this floor 15 demanding that we withdraw any assault upon your 16 local home rule. What's the difference between 17 legislation that would supersede your right of 18 local regulation in one field versus the right 19 of local regulation in the field of weapons 20 ownership and possession? 21 You would not sit still for 22 something which would be drafted in a way that, 23 based upon the presumption, and that's your 2871 1 exact wording, the presumption that they are of 2 good moral character, therefore, they should be 3 permitted to ride roughshod over the decisions 4 of duly appointed local governmental officials. 5 The police commissioner of the 6 city of New York has barely had his seat warm in 7 that office. You have not spoken with him, and 8 I have not spoken with him. We do have an 9 invitation from the mayor of the city of New 10 York to visit with the mayor at Gracie Mansion 11 in, I believe, two weeks. I'd appreciate it if 12 those who are prepared to vote for this bill 13 before us, would defer their vote until the 14 night -- and I think it's a Friday night. 15 SENATOR GOLD: May 6th. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- May 6th, in 17 which they can go to Gracie Mansion and talk to 18 the mayor of the city of New York, and I'm sure 19 they'll have an opportunity to see the police 20 commissioner because the mayor and the police 21 commissioner have been traveling in tandem in a 22 variety of ways in recent months, and I would 23 hope that you would defer judgment, talk to the 2872 1 mayor of your party -- he's a Republican, I'm a 2 Democrat, but I'm willing to listen to the mayor 3 of your party -- and I think you should show the 4 same courtesy towards him and to his police 5 commissioner. 6 Defer your vote until you talk to 7 the mayor. Defer your vote until you talk to 8 the new police commissioner who's brand new on 9 the job and see whether his views are different 10 from the views of their -- of his predecessors. 11 Maybe they are, in which case you've done 12 nothing except postpone the vote for two weeks. 13 It's not an unfair challenge that I ask you to 14 accept. It's a reasonable approach that 15 reasonable people should be willing to pursue. 16 I would not supersede your right 17 of local home rule and commissioner -- and, 18 Senator Volker, with all due respect, do not 19 supersede the right of the police commissioner 20 of the city of New York to make a decision. If 21 they do it differently in other parts of the 22 state, they may have different situations. 23 There may be different problems, but do not cite 2873 1 the fact that people who know each other kill 2 each other. Is it any less of a murder that the 3 majority of the murders that occur in this state 4 and throughout the country are committed by 5 people who know each other? Is the victim any 6 less dead because they know each other? Were 7 the F.B.I. agents whom I consulted when drafting 8 my gun control legislation wrong when they said 9 to me, if someone comes after us with a knife, 10 with an ax, with any other weapon, we've got a 11 good chance of remaining alive but come after us 12 with a modern firearm and we have virtually no 13 chance of succeeding and remaining alive. 14 You are going contrary to public 15 opinion in this state and throughout the 16 nation. Recently there was someone who, as a 17 joke joke, began manufacturing clocks that went 18 backwards, and he called it a President Clinton 19 watch and he said, Look at the way President 20 Clinton is going in the wrong direction. My 21 friends, you keep voting for bills such as the 22 ones you are prepared to vote for today and the 23 amendments you voted against today, and we might 2874 1 have to change that clock and have it going in 2 the other direction because the Senate of the 3 state of New York will be interpreted as moving 4 away from the point of view of a majority of the 5 American people. 6 Hold your vote. Hold your fire. 7 Delay until you've discussed this with the mayor 8 whom you respect and a police commissioner whom 9 he respects. I hope you'll vote in the 10 negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Johnson. Senator Johnson. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 14 I think if there's anything that could be said 15 about this debate, it is not that this side may 16 be captive of the NRA but that the other side 17 may be captive of a malicious tradition that's 18 existed for 60 years and has resulted in the 19 streets of New York City being populated by good 20 citizens who can be killed at any time on any 21 street by anyone carrying a gun, a knife, their 22 fists or whatever, and that's the sad history of 23 gun control in New York City, that people are 2875 1 not allowed to defend themselves. It's practic 2 ally a guarantee that a criminal not meet anyone 3 who can protect themselves. 4 The cousin of a friend of mine 5 was going out for a pizza last year in Greenwich 6 Village where he lived. He went out on the 7 street; he was on his way back. Fellow said, 8 "Give me your wallet." He gave him the wallet, 9 then he went bang, bang and killed him 10 capriciously. 11 So I think that demonstrates it's 12 not the surfeit of guns that are the problem but 13 the hands in which those guns reside which is 14 the problem. Certainly, if my friend's cousin 15 had had a weapon, had been able to carry it, he 16 would have been able to protect himself and 17 possibly he wouldn't be dead. Maybe the 18 statistic would be the criminal. Hopefully, 19 that would be the case. 20 I think to say that we're afraid 21 of the NRA is really just throwing up a strawman 22 which you can beat on and beat this side on. 23 The simple fact is that some people on this side 2876 1 are maybe concerned about the welfare of the 2 good citizens of the city and feel that the 3 lives of those citizens are worth at least as 4 much as the proceeds of a day's receipt from a 5 candy store because if you run a candy store and 6 you got even $1500 to take to the bank, you can 7 get a gun to protect that money, but your life 8 isn't worth $1500 or the proceeds of the candy 9 store if you can not have a weapon, even with a 10 legitimate need to have one if you feel your 11 life is threatened on the streets of New York 12 City, or at your job, or on the way home or 13 whatever, you can't protect yourself with a gun 14 because we don't want too many guns around. 15 Needless to say, the million guns in the hands 16 of the criminals are no concern of ours. We're 17 not going to do anything about that, and that's 18 obviously the position taken on the other side 19 of the street here. 20 I think Senator Connor made a 21 great error when he said you can't stalk a deer 22 with a semi-automatic. I think in my experience 23 of 40 years of hunting most of the weapons or a 2877 1 good majority are semi-automatic rifles or shot 2 guns, so obviously he's erroneous there. He 3 doesn't understand the difference between a 4 machine gun, which has been illegal for 60 5 years, and a semi-automatic rifle, so I think 6 people who don't know what they're talking about 7 don't add much light to the debate. 8 If -- there's no doubt about it 9 that if several people had -- who worked in the 10 City and were on the train when Colin Ferguson 11 was there, he wouldn't have got by with shooting 12 all those people. He might have ended up 13 getting shot himself by a good citizen who had 14 his right to carry a weapon and a license to do 15 so and was available to help save those other 16 lives. 17 You know, it's kind of 18 interesting and maybe we ought to really look 19 around and see what's being done in other 20 states. You may have heard about all the 21 tourists getting killed in Florida and you might 22 have been interested in hearing the explanation 23 of why tourists are targeted so often, because 2878 1 some years back Florida made it more -- made it 2 easier for citizens to get hand guns just for 3 self protection, saw that they were trained to 4 use them. A lot more people have licenses now 5 than had five or six years ago. Crime rate has 6 dropped in Florida in all cases except for 7 tourists and the interview with this criminal 8 who killed a tourist recently went like this. 9 "Why do you target the tourist?" "Well, of 10 course, you know the people live in Florida they 11 could have a gun, they could shoot back but we 12 know the tourist don't have a gun and we know 13 they have money so obviously we pick the easiest 14 people to rob and kill." 15 So the simple fact is if other 16 states, and eleven other states have followed 17 the example of Florida and enabled their good 18 citizens with good records which this bill 19 essentially says, to possess hand guns if they 20 choose to do so for their own protection, and 21 the crime rates have gone down in those states. 22 So maybe it's time for the people of the city of 23 New York to stop alligator tears about the 2879 1 criminals might get hurt on the street and take 2 some concern about letting your own citizens 3 protect themselves. 4 I mean this is no slander or 5 negative statement about the police to say that 6 everybody doesn't have one to walk the streets 7 with them. Until everybody has a cop to walk 8 the streets with them, they're going to be 9 subject to being killed or robbed, but to take 10 away the people's right to defend themselves in 11 the midst of a crime wave is a criminal act 12 against the people of your own city. 13 To say that you're representing 14 those people is like -- is an unhappy circum 15 stance, I think, for those people because if you 16 truly wanted to represent them, you would see 17 that every good citizen had the right and was 18 encouraged to own, know how to use, and possess 19 and carry a hand gun. That's the only way the 20 crime wave is going to stop in New York City 21 unless you want to go along with Bill Clinton 22 and call out the National Guard and sack every 23 building in the city in violation of civil 2880 1 rights and see if that helps, but if you don't 2 want to go along with that, you certainly have 3 to let people protect themselves. 4 That's all this bill says, if 5 you're a good person, you can carry a gun to 6 protect yourself. Seems pretty straightforward 7 to me. Doesn't take the NRA to tell me it makes 8 common sense, so I think everybody here ought to 9 support this bill and they ought to forget about 10 the baloney about assault weapons that everybody 11 knows is a farce and less than one percent of 12 the crimes in New York City is committed by 13 assault weapons. 14 It's a cover-up of the failure on 15 the part of the New York City Democrat 16 delegation, I think, to put forth any real 17 solutions for dealing with the criminals, so 18 they want to blame it on the gun. It's an 19 artificial argument, doesn't hold any water, 20 shouldn't be respected. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Senator, I do have a list here unless you want 23 somebody to yield. 2881 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I just 2 wanted to ask Senator Johnson to yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Johnson, you have the floor. Would you yield to 5 a question? 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 8 Johnson, I was listening to your debate very 9 carefully, and I just want to ask, do you carry 10 a gun, Senator, when you - 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: (Opening 12 jacket). But I can run pretty fast. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: But the simple 15 fact is that people who work in the city and who 16 feel threatened and many do, should be permitted 17 to carry a gun. If I felt the same way in my 18 district, I would. But I don't at this point, 19 but in the future, if nothing substantial is 20 done about crime, many of us will have to and 21 it's kind of interesting because I've sat on 22 that side before, and I know some of the members 23 over there carry guns and have carried guns, 2882 1 people from the City, they've told me that, but 2 don't mention it, so I'm not going to mention 3 it. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Waldon. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 Almost nightly on the news on 11 television, we see carnage, whether it be 12 Bosnia, Herzegovina, Rwanda or Borundi over the 13 week end, South Africa with the car bomb, and 14 you see bodies strewn in the streets. The 15 manner in which TV is now able to report the 16 news, the graphic displays lets you know of the 17 pain and suffering of those who have been the 18 victims of this violence. 19 Regrettably, the same thing is 20 occurring here in America. Whether it be 21 California where school children are gunned 22 down, whether it be the Long Island Rail Road or 23 the Brooklyn Bridge, whether it be even the 2883 1 projects where I conducted a hearing on Saturday 2 and where tenants brought pictures showing the 3 bullet holes in their doors, the bullet holes in 4 their walls, telling me of the children under 5 age 10 who have been senselessly murdered by gun 6 fights; kids, meaning teenagers in a turf battle 7 with Uzis, AK-47s, Tek-9s and other forms of 8 violence. 9 So it doesn't make sense to me 10 that, instead of curtailing firearms, we may be 11 doing something here to proliferate firearms, 12 this legislation, and this proliferation of 13 firearms does not, in my opinion, arithmetically 14 increase the potential for violence, but it does 15 so geometrically. So if someone has a weapon 16 which can throw off 16 rounds in a few seconds, 17 it is immeasurable the pain and suffering which 18 occurs at the point and place where those rounds 19 strike. 20 I was sitting here talking to 21 Senator Paterson, and I said to him and he said 22 to me, Why do you think there's such a desire on 23 this side of the chamber to support legislation 2884 1 of this nature? And he came up with the 2 possibility that profit may have something to do 3 with that, and I air that only to say I hope 4 that's not the case. I cannot believe that 5 those of you with whom I sometimes have lunch 6 and dinner, we sometimes in the lounge sit 7 around and chitchat over coffee about a whole 8 host of things, our children, our grand 9 children, the Knicks, the Nets, the Buffalo 10 Bills, I hope that that has nothing to do with 11 your desire to pass legislation which will allow 12 guns to be proliferating in our society. 13 And so I stand up, Mr. President, 14 just to say that I hope that we will not pass 15 this legislation. I hope that we will begin to 16 take the right road, the one less traveled in 17 this chamber but most traveled outside of this 18 chamber in terms of reduction of guns as opposed 19 to proliferation of guns, and I sincerely hope 20 that not one of my colleagues who is Republican 21 has ever had a thought or motivation from the 22 National Rifle Association or anyone else which 23 allowed you to make your decision based upon the 2885 1 profit motive for someone who is a manufacturer 2 of these demons of death. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 DiCarlo. 6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 7 I wasn't going to speak on this issue today but 8 seeing that a number of my colleagues have 9 pointed over here about the New York City 10 Republicans, I feel that I must rise just 11 briefly. 12 I find it a little disingenuous 13 when we're asked to wait for the mayor and wait 14 two weeks until we go to Gracie Mansion to hear 15 his position on this bill, when I wonder if 16 anyone on the other side of the aisle waited to 17 meet and to speak to the mayor about his 18 position on the death penalty before they voted 19 against it or they spoke to the mayor and they 20 waited before they spoke against finger-imaging 21 and fingerprinting. So I find that also 22 interesting. 23 The mayor and I agree on a lot of 2886 1 issues, but the mayor and the police 2 commissioner on this issue are wrong and the 3 sponsor of the bill is correct. New York City 4 has been said already has the toughest gun laws 5 in the country and it's one of the least safe 6 places in the United States of America. The 7 argument just doesn't hold any water, and it 8 never has. 9 I came to Albany believing that 10 the number one priority of government was the 11 protection of the rights of the people, and New 12 York State has not protected the rights of its 13 citizens for many years now and living in New 14 York City, I can attest to that and, when honest 15 citizens do not get the protection that they 16 deserve, honest citizens have the right to 17 protect themselves and the people in my district 18 believe that, and I think the people in most 19 districts in New York City also believe that. 20 Some of us, when we come up to Albany, forget 21 where we came from. 22 I also find it interesting that 23 the only people that I know when I travel 2887 1 through the city of New York -- and I spend a 2 lot of time down on Court Street -- I find it 3 interesting that in New York City the only 4 people that I know that carry legal guns are 5 police, judges and lawyers and the honest 6 citizens are never allowed to protect 7 themselves. 8 I ask that my colleagues support 9 this bill, because it's a good bill and I 10 believe the majority of the people in the city 11 of New York also support this bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 -- wait a second. I don't know who was first 14 there. Senator Jones, you haven't spoken yet. 15 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I -- you 16 have not heard me stand in this chamber before 17 and express any opinion either for or against 18 guns. I'm not a hunter; I don't pretend to know 19 what different kinds of guns there are, and I 20 don't pretend to know what they're used for. 21 But I listened to Senator Johnson, and I just 22 found that I could not sit in my seat any 23 longer. 2888 1 I truly agree that we aren't 2 doing right by our citizens. I understand the 3 crime issue. I understand that our citizens are 4 scared. I understand that we have a drug 5 problem but, ladies and gentlemen, if the only 6 thing we can offer the people of this state is 7 for each of them to have a gun in their pocket, 8 then we need to go home and find some other way 9 to earn a living. 10 I cannot believe that that's what 11 we want for our society, that luckily I can whip 12 out my gun when somebody starts shooting on a 13 train. I'm just appalled at that kind of 14 thinking. There must be some other things that 15 we can do in this chamber that is going to 16 protect the citizens in this state besides 17 worrying that each of us can have a gun in our 18 pocket. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, it must be coming from western New 23 York. I couldn't agree with Senator Jones even 2889 1 more. I guess, Senator Johnson, the thing that 2 I find most unusual is using the example that I 3 cited a couple minutes ago if your grand 4 children were fighting in the back room and one 5 of them had one of those plastic baseball bats 6 and hit one of your other grandchildren on the 7 head, I guess your solution would be to just 8 give them all a bat. That way they'll walk 9 around and stalk each other and not hit each 10 other because they know that if they hit one 11 they might get hit by somebody else. 12 I guess from the western New York 13 school of parenting that Senator Jones and I 14 went to suggest that that would be idiocy. We 15 don't solve the problem of violence by giving 16 more people an opportunity to do more violence. 17 I turn your attention again to 18 the international model which I've talked about 19 before of arms limitation. It seems to me that 20 the arms race, as you may recall, when I was a 21 child, when we hid in our bomb shelters because 22 we were afraid of nuclear weapons raining in 23 from the sky, we were all concerned about the 2890 1 arms race. We trusted ourselves. We trusted 2 the United States. We knew we'd never misuse 3 atomic weapons. We'd dropped the only two in 4 the history of mankind, but we would never do 5 that again because we knew that was folly. We 6 would only use them to protect ourselves. 7 But what we came to our senses 8 and realized is that those weapons in the hands 9 of anybody, of anybody, created a chance that we 10 would destroy this globe. So we reached the 11 conclusion that the thing to do in the arms race 12 was to decrease the availability of those 13 weapons, to restrict countries that had very 14 little respect for human integrity from getting 15 those weapons. We're now fighting a country, an 16 obscure little nation, on the Korean peninsula 17 because we're terrified that they might have a 18 weapon that someone uses or might use. But the 19 solution was to restrict the weapons, not to 20 make them available to everybody. We didn't 21 want everybody in the world to have an atomic 22 weapon so that they could sit there and stalk 23 someone else and use that weapon when they 2891 1 wanted to. That wasn't the answer. 2 The answer was to restrict the 3 use of the weapons, and it seems to me in this 4 domestic arms struggle that we undergo today, 5 we've got to restrict access to weapons as 6 well. 7 This bill goes in the opposite 8 direction. I agree with my colleagues from the 9 city of New York. What I find most intriguing 10 about the statistics is the number of permits 11 and the number of weapons in this country in 12 private ownership has jumped exponentially since 13 the 1960s and with it has the number of gun 14 deaths. You have more guns, you'll have more 15 gun deaths. You have fewer guns, you have fewer 16 gun deaths. 17 Look any other place in the 18 world. Look at Great Britain. Look at Canada. 19 Look at those countries in which weapons are 20 difficult to come by, and you'll see that they 21 have substantially less weapons for death. 22 It seems to me that this issue is 23 resolved on a simple question. I agree with 2892 1 Senator Volker about his position with respect 2 to this issue and the death penalty, about our 3 opportunity to deter crime and how we're going 4 to do it. We have all kinds of opportunities 5 here. We can do it through a death penalty. I 6 don't choose to do it that way for all kinds of 7 reasons. We can also do it by restricting 8 access to weapons, and I would just ask a simple 9 question to everyone on the other side: Why, 10 when you support a death penalty and oppose the 11 killing of human life, why make the weapons that 12 allow that killing to occur freely available? 13 Shouldn't we restrict those weapons to cut down 14 on the number of deaths rather than just punish 15 those who kill by killing them? It seems to me 16 it's a very simple question. Why make it easier 17 for people to kill when what you want to do is 18 prevent killing? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Let me 20 see. I think Senator Gold to close for the 21 Minority. Oh, Senator Johnson, did you want to 22 speak again? 23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Johnson. 2893 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 3 sorry. Then Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: You know, I 5 enjoyed Senator Dollinger's hallucinatory 6 exposition about the nuclear arms race; it's 7 very enlightening. You know, we have a leftist 8 Congressman in our district too, and he was 9 running around saying what a wonderful thing 10 mutually assured destruction was because it 11 would guarantee that our power-mad generals 12 wouldn't start a war. You know, depends what 13 side you're on, I guess. 14 I was never worried about our 15 generals. I was worried about the weapons in 16 the hands of the enemy. And the same place I'd 17 say, Ms. Jones, I'm not worried about the guns 18 in the hands of honest criminals, I'm worried 19 about the guns in the hands of the criminals. 20 Now, if you want to do something, get the guns 21 out of the hands of the criminals. 22 Now, I told you Willie Clinton 23 wants to go in all the housing projects and 2894 1 search them without constitutional permission by 2 asking people to waive your rights under the 3 bill of rights. If that's the way you want to 4 do it, you can do it that way. 5 As far as I'm concerned, we have 6 no right to deprive our citizens of the right to 7 protect themselves in the midst of a crime 8 wave. New York City's solution has been a 9 failure. The same solution has been put in 10 place in Washington, D.C., a total failure. 11 Every day they're pickin' people up off the 12 streets don't know what to do with them, they're 13 killin' so many in Washington, D.C. Of course, 14 the Congress runs that place; maybe they could 15 come up and help run this state. Maybe our 16 statistics would go up a little higher than they 17 are. 18 All I can say is that people have 19 a right to protect themselves. Government has 20 no right to take that right away. It's immoral 21 for government to take away the right to protect 22 yourself, and if you think as apparently the 23 laws are mostly in New York City and other 2895 1 areas, that the day's receipts from a candy 2 store are worth more than your life, you just 3 start a candy store and you'll be able to 4 protect yourself, but if you're just you and I, 5 you'll be unable to to that. I don't think 6 that's the right position. 7 I think the phony argument about 8 assault weapons is just that, a phony argument. 9 Very few people are killed by those, everybody 10 knows that. More people are stomped to death in 11 the street by far or stabbed with guns -- with 12 knives, or so forth. I don't know what else to 13 say except I think everybody has got to rethink 14 this situation and, if you want to solve the 15 problem, you don't want people to protect 16 themselves, you got to come up with another 17 way. So far there's no better way for society 18 set forth than the way to protect yourself. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Much of the dialogue that we have 2896 1 heard this afternoon centers about the over 2 riding issue of crime, particularly violent 3 crime and the availability of guns, and much has 4 been said in that regard about the city of New 5 York. I'm as concerned as any other person in 6 this chamber is or should be on that issue. I'd 7 like to share with you a perspective, however, 8 that you may not be aware of. 9 A matter of weeks ago, in the 10 city of New York, a police officer by the name 11 of Sean McDonald was shot to death on his beat 12 serving the public. When I read a newspaper 13 account of that tragedy, it indicated that the 14 person who had pulled the trigger, killed him, a 15 Mr. Rodriguez, was in this country illegally. 16 And so I contacted the mayor and the police 17 commissioner, in which I stated that all New 18 Yorkers and all citizens are distraught when a 19 police officer is killed in the line of duty 20 trying to protect the public, so much so -- more 21 so than when the criminal justice system that is 22 supposed to protect the public helps contribute 23 to that officer's death. And I asked the 2897 1 specific information about Mr. Rodriguez, and 2 let me share with you what I got back. 3 Mr. Rodriguez is from the 4 Dominican Republic. He paid an official of the 5 army of that country $2,000 to smuggle him into 6 Puerto Rico where then, for additional monies, 7 he obtained forged documents indicating that he 8 was Puerto Rican, and then he came to this 9 country and he was arrested a very short time 10 thereafter for selling cocaine. 11 When he was arrested and brought 12 before a judge, the police department, as 13 indicated by the commissioner in his letter to 14 me dated April 22nd, told the judge, we have an 15 illegal alien that we arrested selling drugs - 16 cocaine -- on the streets of the city of New 17 York. The prosecutor asked for bail. Obviously 18 this individual was prone to skip. He was here 19 illegally, forged documents, perfect criminal to 20 expect that he would flee, but the judge knew 21 better and let him out on his own recognizance, 22 no bail. A couple weeks later he killed a 23 police officer. 2898 1 Now, where are the failures 2 here? The gun? The gun was illegal in the city 3 of New York. It was illegal for him to have 4 it. He was committing a crime in that regard. 5 Toughest laws in the nation, many of my 6 colleagues have pointed that out. 7 Where was the Immigration and 8 Naturalization Service? They told the police 9 department in January of 1993, Don't bother us 10 any more. If you arrest any more illegal 11 aliens, we don't want to know anything about 12 it. You prosecute them, you put them in jail. 13 And where was the judge when she 14 had in front of her an illegal alien, that the 15 police department notified her was an illegal 16 alien, arrested for selling cocaine? As far as 17 I'm concerned, she was out to lunch. 18 So I suggest to you that we do 19 have a serious responsibility when it comes to 20 the proliferation of guns and their ownership by 21 people who are up to no good and out to do 22 violence to our society, but I would suggest to 23 you that the greater problem is a system that 2899 1 allows for this kind of thing to happen. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, not yet, 5 Senator, not yet. Not yet. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: He 7 doesn't care to yield. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: In a minute. 9 -- that allows this kind of thing to happen. 10 If the system had done its job, Officer McDonald 11 would be alive today and this person would have 12 been in jail where he should have been, but it 13 didn't. 14 So while we can blame guns for 15 being the instrument of violence, we have to 16 blame ourselves and the criminal justice system 17 as well as the peripheral of it -- peripheral to 18 it, for failing to do what the law and prudent 19 responsible people would expect it to do. So 20 let's not lose sight of that on any issue, 21 particularly one involving guns. 22 Now, Senator Leichter, I'm happy 23 to yield to you. 2900 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 I appreciate my good friend yielding. Senator, 3 I must say you've made a, I think, compelling 4 case of failures that occurred in this terrible 5 tragedy involving Officer McDonald. I don't 6 think it has much relevance, frankly. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think it has 8 a great deal of relevance, if you're asking me 9 that question. My answer - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Please, let me 11 -- let me finish my question. 12 I don't think it does at all 13 unless it's your point which, frankly, I think 14 would be far reached to say that if every -- in 15 every instance, all the things were done 16 correctly by everybody else, then guns wouldn't 17 be a problem, everybody could have guns. 18 But let me point out to you and 19 wait, Senator, because I'd like your comment on 20 it, and that's my question, the way this bill 21 will make it easier for the Rodriguezes and 22 other people who shouldn't have guns to get 23 guns, because isn't it a fact, Senator, that 2901 1 under this bill you're dismantling the whole 2 mechanism for controlling guns, particularly in 3 the city of New York, because you're going to 4 presume good cause and Rodriguez will go up 5 there and people will say it's presumed, it's 6 presumed he's got good cause, and they're going 7 to make licensing so much easier, isn't that a 8 fact that that's the result of this bill? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. The 10 question, Senator, with all due respect, is an 11 absurd one. In the first place, Rodriguez would 12 never get a license for a gun, and the fact is 13 today the law in the city of New York provides 14 for a very strict procedure. Most of the 2,000 15 people who were killed in the city of New York 16 were killed by individuals using weapons that 17 were obtained illegally and probably among that 18 2,000 there are people who were killed without 19 weapons -- weapons that are licensed, that's 20 what I mean. 21 The fact remains the system in 22 our city fails us and I use this as an example 23 because it's certainly a very serious one. It 2902 1 fails us in that it allows people to be on the 2 street when they shouldn't be. A judiciary that 3 fails us in keeping people away from honest 4 law-abiding citizens, and they will get their 5 hands on these weapons unless we have a national 6 initiative that deals with that problem. They 7 will get their hands on those weapons. 8 The weapons that are used by 9 criminals in the city of New York are obtained 10 contrary to the toughest law in the nation, and 11 that's happening today. 12 So, therefore, your question just 13 doesn't make sense when you relate this incident 14 and probably a thousand other incidents like it, 15 not necessarily involving illegal aliens but 16 people who should be behind bars who get their 17 hands on illegal weapons in violation of tough 18 laws, and go out on the street and kill. That's 19 the issue. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Connor. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: You know, Mr. 2903 1 President, I've listened to what Senator Padavan 2 said, and I accept that people, honest citizens, 3 have a right to defend themselves. No one 4 questions that. 5 What I question is the wisdom of 6 making it easy for the honest citizens who have 7 no specific job-related or immediate fear 8 because of threats, the present standards, to 9 make it -- encourage such citizens to carry a 10 gun, because I don't think it's wise. 11 The example, the tragic example 12 that Senator Padavan brought out, what happened 13 there, and frankly, it matters not whether it 14 was a home-grown murdering thug or an illegal 15 alien murdering thug, certainly doesn't matter 16 to Officer Sean McDonald, but what happened 17 there is that a trained police officer, trained 18 to use weapons, presumably armed as all New York 19 City police officers must be whether on or off 20 duty, lost the gun battle to this Rodriguez. 21 It seems to me the message this 22 bill was supposed to convey was, let's let all 23 of our honest citizens become armed so they can 2904 1 defend themselves, and I say it's not wise, and 2 I question you as follows: What chance would 3 such licensed honest citizens, O.K., you'll tell 4 me they'll have to take a course and go out to 5 the range and fire their guns six times. 6 Hardly -- hardly the kind of training police 7 officers go through, and in fact they, as you 8 know, the police in this city have an extensive 9 course they go through. Part of their training 10 is to avoid shooting innocent bystanders. 11 Now, what chance does the honest 12 citizens, if we armed all the honest citizens in 13 New York City, what chance do they have against 14 a thug like this Rodriguez? What chance, and 15 what are the chances that, if they tried to use 16 their weapon they would hurt innocent bystanders 17 because of the lack of training? 18 I just think the message is 19 mixed. I understand the anger that Senator 20 Padavan presents, and I was angry when I read 21 about that judge just casually giving release on 22 recognizance under the circumstances there. 23 That, in my judgment, wasn't an appropriate case 2905 1 for that, but the fact of the matter is, if a 2 trained police officer couldn't beat him to the 3 draw, why do you even suggest that arming all 4 the honest citizens, giving them a couple-hour 5 firearms course, is going to make them safer, 6 make the city safer, make all the other citizens 7 safer? 8 In my opinion, it only increases 9 the chances that they're going to lose that fast 10 draw, that they're going to get themselves 11 killed or kill someone else by accident. 12 So I think the bill is not wise. 13 It's not about everybody's right to defend 14 themselves. It's about what it's wise for us to 15 encourage people to do to defend themselves. I 16 just don't think it's wise to arm everybody. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Gold, to close. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 20 much, Mr. President. 21 Senator Leichter, I'm told that 22 this may be the last bill and, if it is, if you 23 want, I'll buy you a drink after session. I 2906 1 know you've got to be tremendously frustrated. 2 You're absolutely right. What 3 the case -- the bottom line case of Rodriguez 4 means is irrelevant as opposed to your argument 5 that that man, under this bill, could have 6 become armed easier than under existing law and 7 I don't know why people don't see that. 8 Right now in the city of New York 9 we have a system that a lot of people think is 10 very cumbersome and very clumsy. People have to 11 wait far too long to get a gun and, under this 12 bill, that system would be easier and it will 13 make it easier not necessarily for the honest 14 people, but as Senator Leichter pointed out, for 15 people with false documents and others to arm 16 themselves. 17 I just want -- I think a lot has 18 been said, and I just want to make a couple 19 comments because, as usual, my -- my floor mate, 20 Senator Johnson, always seems to be able to hit 21 the right buttons with me when it comes to this 22 issue. 23 Senator Johnson, we talked about 2907 1 the Long Island Rail Road and you said, My God, 2 if this bill were in place and, you know, you 3 don't know, maybe somebody on that train would 4 have had a gun and could have whipped it out and 5 saved a few lives. 6 Senator, do we have anything to 7 indicate to us that there were people in that 8 car who had applied for their gun permits and 9 had been turned down, honest people who were 10 sitting there and who went home and said to 11 their wives or husbands, You know, this proves 12 it; boy, if they would have given me my 13 application, I could have been there and whipped 14 out my gun and saved five lives? 15 Senator, that's huge 16 speculation. The state of Florida, Senator 17 Johnson, you gave a conversation and as much as 18 you and I differ on issues, Senator Johnson, 19 you've never told me anything that I couldn't 20 take to the bank as far as being true, but, 21 Senator, to start to make laws based upon a 22 comment of a criminal down in Florida, when the 23 facts would indicate to the contrary, you know, 2908 1 that does -- that doesn't make any sense to me 2 because, in the state of Florida, they first of 3 all, I believe they manufacture 20 percent of 4 the guns in this nation, and I wish they 5 wouldn't. You can get guns down there in three 6 days, and the Brady bill has them an exception, 7 the Brady Law, as I understand it, doesn't apply 8 to Florida. I was told that by a Florida gun 9 store and, in the state of Florida, they have 10 the death penalty and, if you shoot somebody who 11 is a tourist or if you shoot somebody who is a 12 resident because they may have a gun, you still 13 are going to get fried down there. So 14 apparently that doesn't work as a deterrent. 15 Apparently you still go out and shoot tourists 16 in the state of Florida, and nobody is afraid of 17 the death penalty. Let's talk about that part 18 of this whole thing. 19 You also may want to point out, 20 Senator Johnson, in the state of Florida that 21 has a death penalty and the State of Texas that 22 has a death penalty, they kill more cops than 23 they do in most other places. So I don't know 2909 1 what the relevance of Florida is. 2 And between Senator Stavisky and 3 Senator Johnson, I've come out with one 4 conclusion, and that is if we want to respect 5 local government, Senator Stavisky, they don't 6 understand. We have a right to be wrong. I 7 mean we vote for local bills around the state 8 all the time and we say, Well, all right, your 9 locality wants to do this and we assume if 10 they're doing that, the duly elected people know 11 what they're doing. 12 Well, maybe we have a right to be 13 wrong and there was a -- one of the finest 14 gentlemen who ever served in the Legislature, 15 Senator Levy, used to talk about his wife having 16 a gun and a very distinguished lady from, I 17 think it was Putnam County, Senator Goodhue, 18 used to talk about how dangerous it could be 19 coming down to the City, and I remember those 20 debates, and we said, Look, don't come. You got 21 to bring your gun, don't come, and if we lose 22 the tourism, maybe we'll learn our lesson. You 23 know, punish us. 2910 1 But we have a right to be wrong. 2 Now, when it was David Dinkins, it was easy to 3 beat him up. Everybody was beatin' up David 4 Dinkins. My God, that became a hobby to some 5 persons. But it's interesting, Rudy Giuliani 6 ran for mayor, tough law and order prosecutor, 7 and I have in front of me, his memo and David 8 Dinkins' memo, one signed by Bozzella, and one 9 signed by Robert M. Harding, and Robert M. 10 Harding, in his wisdom -- and I congratulate him 11 -- the same memo, word for word, because the 12 Giuliani office, legislative office, 13 acknowledges the wisdom that we received from 14 the Dinkins administration on this issue. 15 So your tough prosecutor, our new 16 mayor, is saying to you, I want to go in the 17 City. Crime is a major issue. People elected 18 me to take care of the City, and I'll do my job, 19 but this doesn't do my job, and don't pass it. 20 Now, Rudy Giuliani didn't 21 campaign as some bleeding heart Liberal. He 22 didn't campaign as a guy who was -- was for the 23 criminal. I mean it may be that the time has 2911 1 come for us to take a deep breath and stop 2 reintroducing every year for debate one-house 3 bills in order to make points. Now, I mean -- I 4 mean intellectual points. 5 Now, Senator Volker and I have 6 debated many, many issues in this area, and we 7 don't agree. It's easy. We don't agree, but if 8 we debate this every year or every other year, 9 every three years, we're still not going to 10 agree and you're not going to pass it, and all 11 I'm saying to you is, let's stop it already. It 12 has a major effect on a major part of this state 13 and we don't want it and, if we're wrong and if 14 people from Syracuse don't come to the city 15 because it's dangerous, then we will suffer, but 16 it's our right to be wrong, and I would urge 17 everybody to once again, those who have opposed 18 the bill, to vote no and those of my colleagues 19 on the other side who come from the city of New 20 York particularly, let's back up that anti-crime 21 hard-hitting new mayor of the city of New York 22 and vote against the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2912 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November - 5 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I guess 7 a slow roll. 8 THE SECRETARY: -- next 9 succeeding that on which it shall have become a 10 law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Ring 12 the bell. Slow roll. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush, 14 excused. 15 Senator Bruno. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Connor to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR CONNOR: To explain my 22 vote. 23 I think the arguments have been 2913 1 covered extremely well. I would just encourage 2 my colleagues on the other side who are from the 3 city of New York to think about what the people 4 you represent think about this issue. 5 Every survey I have ever seen for 6 the last 20 years has shown that New Yorkers in 7 every neighborhood throughout the city of New 8 York want stricter gun laws, want bans since 9 it's been an issue in the last six or seven 10 years on semi-automatic assault weapons. That's 11 what the people want. They feel very, very 12 strongly about that. 13 I would urge you on the other 14 side of the aisle, back up our mayor. Back up 15 your Republican mayor and vote no. 16 I vote no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Continue the roll. Senator Connor is in the 19 negative. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 21 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 23 (There was to response.) 2914 1 Senator DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Dollinger. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 9 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Gonzalez. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Goodman. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Hoffmann excused. 23 Senator Holland. 2915 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 4 I'd like to my explain my vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Johnson to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: I would like to 8 first say that Senator Gold or anyone who would 9 like to see some of the information about 10 Florida and the decline in crime since the 11 citizens have been empowered to have hand guns, 12 I could provide that information. I don't have 13 it here. Tourist crimes have risen for the 14 reasons that were set forth that they feel that 15 they're not armed and they're an easier target. 16 I'm aware that Giuliani is a 17 Republican and not soft on crime, the fact that 18 his memo, the Dinkins memo, which I think has 19 been recirculated doesn't show an awful lot of 20 thought has been put into the protection of 21 citizens in New York City. 22 You all know you have the 23 strictest hand gun laws in the state; you've 2916 1 licensed hand guns; you've banned assault 2 weapons, every possible thing you could do 3 dealing with weapons, you've done, but the crime 4 wave keeps going on in New York City. 5 Why? Because I think -- I think 6 that you haven't dealt with the real issue, 7 which is the guns in the hands of criminals and 8 criminals don't abide by any of those laws quite 9 obviously, so they're not affected by any of 10 these great enactments, only the honest 11 citizens. 12 The polls reflect the media 13 propaganda, and the people can't be blamed for 14 being misled by the newspapers. That's happened 15 many times. This is a very good bill, a first 16 step, and we have to do a lot more about crime 17 in New York City, but this at least is a small 18 start to empowering the people to defend 19 themselves. 20 I vote yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Johnson in the affirmative. 23 Continue the roll. 2917 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 2 SENATOR JONES: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 4 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 6 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 8 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin 10 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 11 Senator LaValle. 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 17 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 2918 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 2 aye. 3 Senator Markowitz. 4 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 6 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 11 SENATOR NANULA: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan 13 excused. 14 Senator Nozzolio. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Ohrenstein, no. 18 Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 2919 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 3 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 9 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Sears. 15 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward 17 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith 21 voting in the negative earlier today. 22 Senator Solomon. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. 2920 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Stachowski. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Stafford. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Stavisky. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 12 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 16 SENATOR VELELLA: (Affirmative 17 indication). 18 THE SECRETARY: Yes. 19 Senator Volker. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 22 (Negative indication. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: No. 2921 1 Senator Wright. 2 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Absentees. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 8 SENATOR DALY: Yes. Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Hannon. 14 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Santiago. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Spano. 20 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 2922 1 21. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 Mr. President. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 -- wait a second. Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I may be 11 going through the wrong process, but can you go 12 to Senator Nanula for a minute. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Nanula. 15 SENATOR NANULA: I'd like to ask 16 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 17 on Calendar Number 607. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 19 objection, Senator Nanula in the negative. That 20 didn't pass. 21 Senator Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I -- I 23 would like to be permitted to change -- a change 2923 1 on a vote on more recent information which I 2 think I would like to offer to this body which 3 is that, on Calendar Number 282, we had assumed 4 -- this concerns the erection of signs in the 5 Adirondack Park area, and we had assumed that 6 the bill had not been changed. 7 It had been amended. It is now 8 approved. It is a Governor's bill and is 9 approved by the environmental organizations and 10 there will be signs that will be permitted to be 11 erected on informational kiosks in the 12 Adirondack Park area, at certain rest areas and 13 at designated interchanges of the Northway and 14 they will indicate the availability of food and 15 fuel and lodging, and it is believed that this 16 will, in addition, be an improvement because the 17 Adirondack Mountain Club will be participating 18 in drawing up the signage. 19 So I will be voting in the 20 affirmative on 282, and I think a great many 21 people will join me on that. 22 SENATOR JONES: I'd like to 23 change my vote. 2924 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 2 objection. 3 Senator Jones. 4 SENATOR JONES: I would like to 5 change my vote to the affirmative on the same 6 bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 8 Senator Jones is yes. 9 Senator Stachowski. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I'd also 11 like to change to the affirmative due to that 12 information. We were off the floor in the 13 Finance meeting, and we didn't get that 14 information. Senator Gold took so much longer 15 to do the thing as I just did now. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: I'd like to 19 change my vote to affirmative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Connor is in the affirmative on 282; Mendez also 22 in the affirmative. Just a moment. Have some 23 order here. 2925 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Are you 3 through? Are you through? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, we 5 got some motions on the floor, but everybody is 6 standing, it's hard to recognize. 7 Senator Levy. 8 SENATOR LEVY: Ditto. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 282, 10 Senator Levy is in the affirmative. 11 Are there any other vote changes 12 on this one? 13 SENATOR MALTESE: Not on this 14 one. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 16 right, let me start here. Senator Maltese. 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 18 I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 19 negative on Calendar Number 603 and 661. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 603 and 21 661, you got Senator Maltese in the negative. 22 Senator Saland. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 2926 1 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 3759, 2 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 3 desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Secretary will read it. 6 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 7 Saland, Senate Bill Number 3759, an act to amend 8 the Domestic Relations Law. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 10 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 11 bill was passed. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll on reconsideration. 14 (The Secretary called the roll on 15 reconsideration. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 18 offer the following amendments. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 20 objection. 21 Senator Stafford. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 23 the hour not being late, I think I should take 2927 1 some time to express my appreciation for the 2 good judgment of those who realized and voted 3 differently. Being late, I won't say any more, 4 but thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 record will show that. 7 Are there any other motions on 8 the floor? 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Does Mr. 11 Cornell have something to do? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 13 does. He has a substitution. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Good. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 13 of 16 today's calendar, Senator Lack moves to 17 discharge the Committee on Judiciary from 18 Assembly Bill Number 10481 and substitute it for 19 the identical Third Reading 561. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 That looks like it. Any other 23 motions? 2928 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there being no further business, I move we 4 adjourn until tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow at 3:00 7 p.m. 8 (Whereupon at 6:39 p.m., the 9 Senate adjourned. ) 10 11 12 13