Monday, June 6, 1994

4379 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 6, 1994 10 3:31 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 4380 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 I'd like to announce an immediate meeting of the 6 Rules Committee in Room 332. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 8 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 9 Committee in Room 332. Rules Committee in 332. 10 (The Senate stood at ease from 11 3:32 to 3:56 p.m.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Senate will come to order. Members take their 14 places, staffs take their places. All members 15 along with the people in the gallery please rise 16 for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 17 (The assemblage repeated the 18 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 19 We're very pleased to have a 20 visiting clergy, the Rabbi Murray Grauer of the 21 Hebrew Institute of White Plains from Senator 22 Oppenheimer's district, to lead us in prayer. 23 Rabbi Grauer. 4381 1 RABBI MURRAY GRAUER: Azimu 2 shebayim. Our Heavenly Father, convey Thy 3 blessings upon these men and women who have been 4 selected to serve, guide and protect the 5 interests and affairs of their respective 6 constituencies. May we be privileged to give 7 thought to the words of our Rabbinical mentors 8 who, in their tradition of the fathers, 9 expressed the view, man shall pray for the 10 welfare of his government for without the 11 discipline of law, one man would devour 12 another. 13 Aid these legislators to be wise 14 and diligent in serving the needs of all with 15 justice and equity. May they devote our deeds 16 to aid the needy and create a society that is 17 inspired to be both productive and 18 compassionative -- compassionate. 19 We pray that the values of 20 learning and progress for all be sustained in 21 the spirit of the traditions of these United 22 States of America. Amen. 23 Reading of the Journal. 4382 1 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 2 Sunday, June 5th. The Senate met pursuant to 3 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 4 designation of the Temporary President. The 5 Journal of Saturday, June 4th, was read and 6 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 8 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 9 read. 10 Presentation of petitions. 11 Messages from the Assembly. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of standing committees. 14 Clerk will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 16 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 17 following bills directly for third reading: 18 Senate Bill Number 6452-A, Budget Bill, making 19 appropriations for the legal requirements of the 20 state debt service. 21 Also Senate Budget Bill, Senate 22 Bill Number 6454-A, an act making appropriations 23 for the support of government. 4383 1 Also Senate Bill Number 8550, by 2 the Committee on Rules, an act in relation to 3 certain provisions which impact upon the 4 expenditure of certain appropriations made by a 5 chapter of the laws of 1994. 6 Also Senate Bill Number 8551, 7 from the Committee on Rules, an act in relation 8 to certain provisions which impact upon the 9 expenditure of certain appropriations made by 10 Chapter 52 of the Laws of 1994. 11 Senator Marino, from the 12 Committee on Rules, reports the following bills 13 directly for third reading: Senate Bill Number 14 6012-A, by the Senate Committee on Rules, an act 15 to amend the Racing Pari-Mutuel Wagering and 16 Breeding Law. 17 Also Senate Bill Number 7153, by 18 the Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend 19 the Social Services Law, in relation to medical 20 assistance exclusion. 21 All bills reported directly for 22 third reading. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 4384 1 objection, all bills from the Senate Finance 2 Committee and Rules Committee are reported to 3 third reading. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Motions and resolutions. Senator 6 Farley. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 I wish to call up Senator 10 Stafford's bill, Calendar Number 643, Assembly 11 Print 5756-A. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Stafford, Senate Bill Number 4821-A, an act to 16 amend the Penal Law. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 18 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 19 was substituted for Senator Stafford's bill, 20 Senate Print 4821-A on 4-20. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 22 will call the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 4385 1 reconsideration. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move that 4 the Assembly Bill 5756-A be recommitted to the 5 Committee on Codes and that Senator Stafford's 6 Senate bill be restored to the order of third 7 calendar, and I offer the following amendments. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 9 restored; amendments are adopted. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 11 Senator Skelos, Mr. President, I wish to call up 12 Calendar Number 817, Assembly Print Number 13 8460-A. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Skelos, Assembly Bill Number 8460-A, an act to 16 amend the Public Health Law. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 18 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 19 was substituted for Senator Skelos' bill, Senate 20 Print 5489-A, on 5-4. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 22 will call the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 4386 1 reconsideration. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move that 4 the Assembly Bill 8460-A be committed to the 5 Committee on Rules and that Senator Skelos' 6 Senate bill be restored to the order of third 7 reading, and I offer the following amendments. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Assembly 9 bill is recommitted, Senate bill is restored. 10 The amendments are accepted and received. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 12 Senator Libous, Mr. President, I wish to call up 13 his bill 6219-A, recalled from the Assembly 14 which is now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Libous, Senate Bill Number 6219-A, an act to 19 amend the Public Health Law. 20 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 21 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 22 passed, and I ask that the bill be restored to 23 the order of third reading. 4387 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 2 will call the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 7 now move to discharge from the Committee on 8 Rules, Assembly Print Number 8929-A and 9 substitute it for my identical bill. 10 The Senate bill, on the first 11 passage, was passed unanimously. I now move 12 that the substituted Assembly bill have its 13 third reading at this time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 15 Substitution is ordered. Read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4388 1 is passed. 2 Senator Farley. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 4 the amendments are offered to the following 5 Third Reading Calendar bills: 6 On behalf of Senator Holland, 7 page 16, Calendar 705, Senate Print 5422-A; also 8 on behalf of Senator Holland, on page 20, 9 Calendar 802, Senate Print 6501; on behalf of 10 Senator Larkin, page 20, Calendar 812, Senate 11 Print 3144-B; on behalf of Senator Johnson, page 12 26, Calendar 942, 7404-A, Senate print; on 13 behalf of Senator Volker, on page 27, Calendar 14 Number 958, Senate Print 3249-B; on behalf of 15 Senator Velella, page 29, Calendar 1016, Senate 16 Print 7486; on behalf of Senator Stafford, page 17 32, Calendar 1119, Senate print 6497; and on 18 behalf of Senator Libous, on page 41, Calendar 19 806, Senate Print 4769-A. I move that these 20 bills retain their places on the Third Reading 21 Calendar after the amendments are received. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 23 Amendments are received. The bills will retain 4389 1 their place on the Third Reading Calendar. 2 Senator Present, we have some 3 substitutions. Clerk will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 17, 5 Senator Farley moves to discharge the Committee 6 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11599, and 7 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 8 731. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Substitution's ordered. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 12 Senator Rath moves to discharge the Committee on 13 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10211-B, and 14 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 15 1099. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 19 Senator Larkin moves to discharge the Committee 20 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10860-A and 21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 22 1120. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4390 1 Substitution's ordered. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 3 Senator Libous moves to discharge the Committee 4 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9751 and 5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6 1122. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Substitution is ordered. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 33, 10 Senator Spano moves to discharge the Committee 11 on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10715-A and 12 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 13 1125. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 15 Substitution's ordered. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 34, 17 Senator Sears moves to discharge the Committee 18 on Education from Assembly Bill Number 9579-A 19 and substitute it for the identical Third 20 Reading 1130. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Substitution is ordered. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 42, 4391 1 Senator Levy moves to discharge the Committee on 2 Alcoholism and Drug Abuse from Assembly Bill 3 Number 8026 and substitute it for the identical 4 Third Reading 911. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Substitution is ordered. 7 Senator Wright. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of 9 Senator Libous, please remove the sponsor's star 10 on Calendar Number 806. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 12 star is removed on Calendar Number 806. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 15 recognize Senator DiCarlo, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 DiCarlo. 18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 19 I have a privileged resolution at the desk. I 20 ask that it be read in its entirety. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 22 will read the privileged resolution in its 23 entirety. 4392 1 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 2 Resolution 3649, by Senators DiCarlo, Marino and 3 other members of the Senate, commemorating the 4 50th Anniversary of the Allied invasion of 5 Normandy on June 6th, 1944, D-Day. 6 WHEREAS, the 50th Anniversary of 7 World War II has brought many bittersweet 8 memories to the veterans of that era, no less so 9 than this, the 50th Anniversary of the Allied 10 landing at Normandy, the most massive military 11 operation ever undertaken by an armed force in 12 the history of the world; 13 On June 6, 1944, Supreme 14 Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces, 15 General Dwight David Eisenhower, issued the 16 following order of the day: Soldiers, Sailors 17 and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force! 18 You are about to embark upon the Great Crusade, 19 toward which we have striven these many months. 20 The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes 21 and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere 22 march with you. In company with our brave 23 Allies and brother-in-arms on other fronts, you 4393 1 will bring about the destruction of the German 2 war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyrrany 3 over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and the 4 security for ourselves in a free world; 5 The Allied invasion of Normandy 6 on June 6, 1944, code named "Operation Over 7 lord," began just after dawn and was the most 8 important D-Day of the war because its success 9 marked the beginning of the end of the murderous 10 reign of Nazi tyrrany over the continent of 11 Europe; 12 United States, British and 13 Canadian forces went ashore along a 40-mile 14 stretch of the Normandy coastline, culminating 15 over a year of Allied planning and preparation, 16 under the overall direction of General Dwight D. 17 Eisenhower, who commanded the Supreme Headquar 18 ters, Allied Expeditionary Force under General 19 Eisenhower. British General Sir Bernard L. 20 Montgomery had overall command of the Allied 21 ground armies, and a combined Anglo-American air 22 and naval headquarters directed the thousands of 23 planes, ships, and landing crafts involved in 4394 1 the huge amphibious operation; 2 The 100,000-man American assault 3 force, under the command of Lt. General Omar M. 4 Bradley's First Army invaded Normandy by both 5 sea and air; the V Corps under Major General 6 Leonard T. Gerow, with the 1st and 29th Infantry 7 Divisions leading the way, began landing soon 8 after sunrise on Omaha Beach, its left flank 9 connecting with the British and Canadians 10 farther to the east; 11 West of Omaha, Major General J. 12 Lawton Collins' VII Corps, with the 4th Infantry 13 Division as the assault element, went ashore at 14 Utah Beach with the mission of seizing the base 15 of the Cotentin peninsula and driving on 16 Cherbourg, a major port crucial to the American 17 logistical build-up. By the time the infantry 18 had landed, the paratroopers of the 82nd and 19 101st Airborne Divisions, who had dropped into 20 the Cotentin behind Utah just after midnight, 21 were already fighting to open exits from the 22 beach for the VII Corps and to cut Cherbourg off 23 from reinforcements; 4395 1 The landings, assisted by over 2 whelming air support and naval bombardment in 3 addition to French partisans who disrupted the 4 German rear and hampered the movements of 5 reinforcements, went more or less according to 6 plan. The paratroopers, despite being badly 7 scattered in their night drop and losing heavily 8 in men and equipment, secured most of their 9 D-Day objectives. They overcame initially 10 confused, but increasingly stubborn and 11 aggressive German resistance, and on Utah Beach, 12 the 4th Division came ashore almost unopposed, 13 thanks in good measure to the paratroopers' 14 fight farther inland; 15 It was a different story on Omaha 16 Beach, bloody Omaha, where the V Corps ran into 17 a strong German division well entrenched on the 18 low -- low bluffs just beyond the high water 19 mark. The initial landing waves of the 1st and 20 29th Divisions were cut to pieces before they 21 reached land. For the better part of the day, 22 thousands of American troops were pinned down at 23 the water's edge as they struggled to return the 4396 1 heavy German fire, to rescue their many wounded 2 from the rising tide, and to collect equipment 3 and supplies; 4 Gradually, intrepid groups of 5 fighters worked their way off the beach and up 6 the bluffs and, assisted by point blank naval 7 gunfire, they eliminated the German strong 8 points one by one. The collapse of German 9 resistance on the British beaches further 10 undermined the defense of Omaha and, during the 11 afternoon, the trickle of men off the beach 12 became a flood. By nightfall, the V Corps had 13 secured a firm lodgement; 14 As the Americans were 15 establishing their beachheads at Utah and Omaha, 16 the British 2nd Army, under Lt. General Sir 17 Miles Dempsey, was beginning the assault on the 18 three eastern beaches, Juno, Gold and Sword. 19 The XXX Corps, commanded by General Bucknall, 20 with the 50th Northumberland Division, veterans 21 of North Africa and Sicily, as its assault 22 component, landed on Gold and met significant 23 resistance on its western flank. Sustaining 4397 1 heavy casualties, the British were able to take 2 the town of LaRiviere and drive to within a mile 3 of Bayeux; 4 East of Gold, General Crocker's I 5 Corps, composed of the 3rd Canadian and 3rd 6 British Divisions, in addition to a complement 7 of Free French commandos, went ashore at Juno 8 and Sword. The Canadians encountered stiff 9 fighting at Juno and, after being held on the 10 beaches for more than two hours, were finally 11 able to drive inland. The 3rd British, seeing 12 their first action since Dunkerque, were able to 13 quickly push inland and link up with the 6th 14 Airborne Division nearly two miles from Caen; 15 At the high price of over 10,000 16 casualties, well over a third of them suffered 17 on Omaha beach, the Allied forces had broken the 18 defensive crust of Hitler's Fortress Europe, 19 breached the impenetrable Atlantic wall and 20 although much bitter fighting remained - 21 Cherbourg, St. Lo, Falaise, Huertgen Forest and 22 the Ardennes -- after D-day the outcome was no 23 longer in question; 4398 1 Once firmly established on French 2 soil, the Allied forces quickly built up 3 overwhelming strength in men and equipment. 4 Against this array the Germans, already fighting 5 desperately to hold back the Red Army in the 6 east, could not prevail. The Americans who 7 fought and died to win the D-Day beaches opened 8 the way for the liberation of the continent and 9 helped to lift the boot of Nazi terror off the 10 throat of Europe. The Third Reich collapsed 11 just 11 months after D-Day; 12 By June 11th, all five Allied 13 beaches were linked together, establishing a 14 foothold 70 miles long and 15 miles deep. With 15 troops and material continuing to pour into 16 France -- there were 300,000 men ashore by June 17 12th -- the inland offensive began in earnest. 18 Cherbourg fell on June 26th, Caen on July 9th 19 and St. Lo on July 18th. In August, Free French 20 forces, under the command of General Jacques 21 Leclerc liberated Paris; and in May of the 22 following year the encircling armies of the 23 Allies finally forced Germany's unconditional 4399 1 surrender; 2 The United States will 3 commemorate D-Day with numerous ceremonies 4 honoring the men who came ashore on the Normandy 5 beaches. There will be a reenactment of the 6 June 6th Airborne assault that dropped 13,000 7 men near Sainte-Mere-Eglise, where the American 8 flag was first raised on French soil on D-Day, 9 and there will be a solemn memorial at the 10 Normandy American Cemetery at Omaha Beach; 11 The 50th Anniversary of D-Day is 12 a seminal occasion that must be commemorated for 13 the sake of the millions of men and women who 14 unselfishly entered the military and served 15 their country, so that America, facing the peril 16 of war on either shore, could remain free; 17 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, 18 that this legislative body pause in its 19 deliberations and most gratefully commemorate 20 the 50th Anniversary of the Allied landing at 21 Normandy on June 6th, 1944, D-Day, while at the 22 same time honoring those men and women who 23 served in the Armed Forces of the United States 4400 1 for their steadfast dedication to the defense of 2 our country, fully confident that such pause 3 mirrors our commitment to the preservation of 4 freedom and the cause of liberty which are our 5 American heritage; and 6 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a 7 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 8 transmitted to President William J. Clinton, 9 Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General 10 John M. Shalikashvili, Major General Michael S. 11 Hall, Adjutant General, New York State, State 12 Director, Division of Veterans Affairs, and all 13 designated veterans groups in New York State. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 15 recognizes Senator DiCarlo, on the resolution. 16 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 17 I, first, would like to thank Mr. Cornell for 18 reading what was a lengthy Legislative Resolu 19 tion. It was lengthy because the resolution 20 dealt with something that we're all familiar 21 with now, and that is the invasion of Normandy, 22 also known as the D-Day invasion. 23 We take time today to remember. 4401 1 We take time to remember those young men who I 2 look back now and think of myself, and I think 3 of most of these young men who are 19 and 20 4 years old doing what they did on June 6th, 5 1944. So we pause in the chamber today, and we 6 paused outside to not celebrate but remember the 7 acts of brave young men, many of whom gave their 8 lives for their country in one of the greatest 9 assaults in our history. 10 I've spoken a lot today about the 11 D-Day commemoration, and I don't have to speak 12 too much more, but something that crystalized 13 what I'm doing as chairman of the Veterans 14 Committee and what I did today with my 15 colleagues in the Assembly, was about two months 16 ago when for the first time in the state of New 17 York an American Legion post was opened in a 18 nursing home, an American Legion post to serve 19 six men -- six men who served in World War II 20 who are now crippled and sick, and I stood 21 before those six men who served this country so 22 well and, when we gave them their charter so 23 that they could again be with their comrades to 4402 1 celebrate their country and their flag, these 2 six men were so overwhelmed with emotion that 3 not only did they cry, but everybody there. 4 These were men who as youngsters were willing to 5 give up their lives. These were men who as 6 youngsters now are crippled because of that 7 war. 8 So when we pause today and we 9 listen to a long resolution, we must remember 10 what's behind the words. We must remember those 11 individuals and their families and the 12 sacrifices that we made and that they made, and 13 we must never forget not only the righteousness 14 of cause, but we must never forget those brave 15 men and women who sacrificed for our country. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 18 recognizes Senator Maltese. 19 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 20 first of all, I would like to, on behalf of my 21 constituents, convey my appreciation to Senator 22 DiCarlo, my good colleague, not only for his 23 words, but for the ceremony that we just held on 4403 1 behalf of the Legislature. It was conducted 2 with dignity and honor to commemorate the 3 sacrifice of so many thousands of men on the 4 beaches of Normandy. I wish to also add my 5 thanks to Assemblyman Ron Tocci, the chairman of 6 the Assembly Veterans Committee. 7 As a young man at the beginning 8 of the second World War on December 7th, I 9 shared what many people in this chamber did, the 10 dismay, the anger, the frustration at being too 11 young, the sadness at so many Americans dying, 12 the pride in a young aviator, Colin P. Kelly, 13 Jr., the first hero of the war who perished 14 shortly after December 7th. 15 We all shared in the pride of 16 friends and relatives going into the service. I 17 remember my boyhood hero was still and still is 18 my uncle, Andrew Scafidi, who was one of the 19 first to go. I remember as we in our 20 neighborhood received notices that young men had 21 been killed in the service of our country, that 22 we shared in the sadness of the people in the 23 neighborhood at that time. The people wore 4404 1 black for a long period of time, and it seemed 2 that, after a while, that so many mothers and 3 fathers were wearing black in my old 4 neighborhood in the east side of Manhattan, for 5 lost loved ones in the service. 6 But I know the period that sticks 7 in my mind among so many battles and so many 8 heroic sagas is D-Day, June 6th, 1944. 9 Historians now tell us that it was one of the 10 two great battles that determined the future of 11 our country, the other being Gettysburg. 12 So we, most of us in this room, 13 lived through a great battle. But what does 14 that mean to those who participated in it? The 15 young men that Senator DiCarlo, and others today 16 spoke of, the people who lost their lives at 17 those five beaches. Omaha, when the resolution 18 was read, it was called "bloody Omaha." 19 Whenever as a veteran or a chairman of the 20 Veterans Committee I heard it referred to, it 21 was always "bloody Omaha." You take the other 22 three beaches, Gold, Juno and Sword, where many 23 brave Americans and brave Allied troops lost 4405 1 their lives, the English, the Free French, 2 Norwegians, the Dutch, Australian, the Canadian, 3 all fighting side by side, but so many brave 4 young American men in what is now called the 5 greatest armada in the history of the world. 6 Thousands of ships, thousands of planes, and 7 they say the sky was darkened with the planes; 8 paratroopers from the different Airborne 9 regiments and divisions parachuting down, in 10 many cases to certain death; bloody Omaha, which 11 is described over and over again, where landing 12 craft were not able to make the beaches and 13 where tanks with crews simply went out and sunk, 14 where brave men trying to get ashore had to 15 struggle past floating bodies and mangled 16 portions of bodies to get ashore and be 17 constantly battered by German guns. 18 Mr. President, this was both a 19 heroic day and a sad day for all the thousands 20 of soldiers and the thousands and thousands of 21 families of servicemen who died that day. We 22 think of the enormity of the casualties of the 23 second World War when we realize that, in the 4406 1 second World War in those years from December 7, 2 1941 to 1945, that we lost 292,000 men, more 3 than double the total amount lost in the war for 4 independence, the Vietnam war, the Korean War 5 and World War I combined. 6 Unfortunately, D-Day was one of 7 the days that we lost so many thousands of men. 8 Some 9- -- almost 10,000 are buried there and 9 our President this morning delivered a speech on 10 behalf of the nation, commemorating not only 11 those brave men there still on a foreign shore 12 but assured that they became American or Allied 13 by virtue of spilling of their blood there, 14 spoke of the example that was set. 15 Many of us at times speak about a 16 lack of patriotism, but the sacrifice of those 17 men set an example for us, for our children, for 18 our grandchildren to follow. They set an 19 example so, hopefully, our children and grand 20 children would never again have to spill blood 21 on any foreign shore, no matter how hallowed. 22 Mr. President, I beg the 23 indulgence of this body to simply read a few 4407 1 names, a representative few of the men who 2 fought and died on D-Day and shortly 3 thereafter. First of all, and first and 4 foremost, a brave man who took part in the 5 ceremony today, a Congressional Medal of Honor 6 winner, Peter D'Allesandro, like so many others 7 of his generation and his time, we look upon 8 them and we try to see the seeds of greatness, 9 these acts of heroism that were performed. The 10 person who introduced our President earlier 11 today at a ceremony spoke of rising to great 12 heights and that he himself, Joe Dawson, had 13 also received the Distinguished Service Cross as 14 a result of heroic acts that day. 15 These men rose beyond 16 expectations, beyond all human -- ordinary human 17 frailties: 1st Lt. Jimmie W. Monteith, Jr., 18 posthumously awarded the Congressional Medal of 19 Honor for services on June 6th; for services 20 beyond the call of duty on June 10th, also 21 posthumous Medal of Honor, Staff Sergeant Arthur 22 F. DeFranzo. 23 Other men from across New York 4408 1 State, who fortunately managed to survive D-Day, 2 Tech. 5 Frank Adams, SFC Lawrence Peter (Yogi) 3 Berra. Yes Yogi Berra was there. Sergeant 4 Roger Cavalluzzo; Pfc. Thomas Donahue; Pfc. Paul 5 Goldstein, T5 Werner Kleeman; Buddy Holmes, Pvt. 6 Frank Juliano, Sergeant Leonard Lornell, 7 Paratrooper Jay Karp, Charles Markey, Pfc. Rocco 8 Moretta, Seaman 2nd Class Vincent Scalia, 9 Sergeant Frank Murray, 2nd Lt. Walter Sidlowski, 10 Cmdr. Samuel H. Schmerla. 11 These are in many cases our 12 neighbors from across the state, but on that 13 day, on that heroic day they rose to those 14 heights described by Congressional Medal of 15 Honor Joe Dawson. 16 Thank God for men like that. 17 Thank God that so many people were prepared to 18 put their lives on the line to assure that our 19 nation continued as a democracy. 20 Mr. President, on behalf of my 21 constituents and the people in New York, we owe 22 them a debt of gratitude that can never be 23 repaid, but, hopefully, one that will never be 4409 1 forgotten. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Leichter on the resolution. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 In my generation, we mark 7 momentous events by saying, Can you remember 8 where you were, one of the days is the day that 9 Kennedy was assassinated. Another one is V-J 10 Day, V-E Day, and certainly another one is D 11 Day. 12 I guess there are quite a few of 13 our colleagues here, Senator Maltese, who were 14 born after D-Day, and others who maybe were too 15 young to remember it. You and I apparently had 16 the benefit of years of being able to remember 17 it, but what really came back to me in the 18 events that have occurred and the depictions on 19 television is the incredible bravery and 20 commitment of these men that stormed these 21 beaches or jumped behind the lines, and they 22 were exceptional people but in a sense what made 23 them so extraordinary is that they were the 4410 1 common people. They came from the farms and the 2 villages and the towns and the mainstream of 3 America, and they were imbued with a selfless 4 ness, with an idealism that made them heroes, 5 and they did things that, as you see it now, you 6 cannot believe that anybody could have the cour 7 age and the bravery to do what these people did. 8 There's a new book out that maybe 9 some of you have read or heard about, by Profes 10 sor Ambrose, which is, in a sense, an all 11 history and establishes that once you got on the 12 beach, all of the grand plans and all of the 13 marvelous logistics that Generals Eisenhower and 14 Bradley and Montgomery had planned really meant 15 very little. There were groups of soldiers here 16 and there pinned down by machine gun fire. It 17 was really up to them. There wasn't any 18 General, there wasn't even a Colonel or a 19 Captain to say, "O.K., this is what you do 20 next," but they instinctively and out of the 21 training that they had, knew what they did and 22 marched on over these overwhelming odds; and the 23 individual stories are just so riveting. 4411 1 Last night, I don't know if any 2 of you had the opportunity to see it on PBS, but 3 it was a depiction of the experiences of an 4 aviator, a fighter bomber -- I'm sorry, a 5 fighter pilot, who went from Normandy until 6 almost the collapse of the German Reich and it 7 was so incredible the experiences that he had, 8 the bravery, and to continue when he believed 9 that really he faced inevitable death. 10 So we sit here really because of 11 the bravery of these people. Our democracy 12 exists, civilization exists, because of the 13 bravery of these people, and certainly if it 14 were not for D-Day and Stalingrad, that evil, 15 most evil of all regimes that we've ever seen, 16 the barbaric Nazi regime, might have triumphed, 17 and we would not sit here. We would not enjoy 18 the bounty of democracy that we have now and 19 it's so appropriate that we at this time, it's 20 50 years for somebody like me, it seems like it 21 was, in some ways yesterday, in some ways many, 22 many years ago, but it's so appropriate that we 23 give thanks to these brave people and 4412 1 acknowledge above all those who died and made 2 sure that we have had the blessings of liberty 3 and freedom. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 6 you, Senator Leichter. 7 The resolution was previously 8 adopted. All members are being included as 9 sponsors of the resolution unless you indicate 10 to the desk otherwise. 11 Senator Present, that concludes 12 motions and resolutions, brings us to the 13 calendar. What's your desire? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 recognize Senator Galiber, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 19 I have a privileged resolution, and I'd ask that 20 it be voted on. Read the title of it and vote 21 on it. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 23 Privileged resolution at the desk, read the 4413 1 title. 2 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 3 Resolution, by Senator Galiber, in recognition 4 of the Honorable Percy E. Sutton and the 5 endowment of the Percy E. Sutton Chair for 6 Government and Public Policy at the State 7 University of New York and the City University 8 of New York. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 10 is on the resolutions. All those in favor 11 signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 The resolution is adopted 16 unanimously. 17 Senator Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 19 I'm not sure whether there are any other persons 20 on the resolution, but Percy Sutton, known by 21 some and known by many of us, any of those who 22 would be desirous of going on that resolution 23 feel free to do so. 4414 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 can we call up Calendar 1141. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 6 will read Calendar 1141. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1141, reported directly to third reading earlier 9 today, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Bill Number 10 6454-A, an act making appropriations for the 11 support of government. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 is there a message of necessity at the desk. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present, the Journal Clerk indicates that there 18 is. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 I move we accept the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 22 to accept the message of necessity at the desk. 23 All those in favor, signify by saying aye. 4415 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Opposed nay. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 The message is accepted. Senator 5 Present? Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 11 on the budget bill? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 13 we're on the budget bill. It's Calendar Number 14 1141, Senator Dollinger, Senate Print 6454-A. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 16 President, I have one question if I can ask. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess it 20 goes to the chairman of the Committee on Finance 21 if he'll yield to a question. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4416 1 Stafford yields to your question, Senator 2 Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I've been 4 through about 68 pages of reappropriations in 5 the budget, and little things, I guess, catch my 6 eye. On page 88 and page 89, there are 7 appropriations for construction work in the 8 village of Kaser. Could you tell me where the 9 village of Kaser is and what those improvements 10 are? We're doing about $800,000, as I read it, 11 of improvements in that village. I wonder how 12 big the village is and how big its - 13 SENATOR WALDON: It will be 14 bigger after this. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Near 16 Rochester? I was just getting some help here. 17 They said it was near Rochester. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Near 19 Rochester? In the 54th District, Senator? 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Then I was 21 corrected. In Rockland County. That's a 22 stellar county, Senator, one of the suburban 23 areas and one of the counties that make this 4417 1 state great. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But my 3 question - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Dollinger. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator 7 Stafford will continue to yield. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I see it, 10 we're spending about 700,000. Do you know what 11 the appropriations, the capital appropriations 12 in the village budget, in the village of Kaser 13 are? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't have 15 the village budget, no. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So we're 17 doing about 700- or $800,000 worth of 18 improvement there. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I'll be 20 very pleased to get you the details. I'll 21 suggest to you, Senator, that we do find there 22 are many areas, some of us are quite proud of 23 our rural areas. If you were to go into my 4418 1 area, you'd find some villages -- and I only say 2 this because we think so much of it - 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 4 President, I can't hear Senator Stafford. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: -- if you 6 blink your eye - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger, you raise a good point. There's a 9 lot of conversation in the chamber. Would you 10 please keep it down. 11 Senator Dollinger, did you have 12 an additional question that you wish to ask 13 Senator Stafford? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think 15 Senator Stafford was answering the question. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will go on 17 and complete that answer. I will go on, and 18 actually all of my counsels are being more than 19 helpful, and so I probably will be able to give 20 you a complete, complete explanation. 21 As in many areas, there are 22 public works necessary for the highways, for the 23 drainage areas, for I guess you would call this 4419 1 infrastructure. That's from an area -- for an 2 area that is not being -- or hasn't been really 3 in existence as long as some of our areas have 4 been -- villages have been, so this is by - 5 this was considered one that we could support. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr. 7 President, through you, Senator Stafford. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stafford yields, Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm just 14 trying to get how much of the budget for 15 transportation improvements on the streets of 16 the village of Kayser the state of New York is 17 going to do in the next year. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I think 19 you'll find, as they do in many areas, they, 20 very candidly, pick up a great deal. We all 21 have problems with our tax bases in local areas 22 and when they're -- when there is a project 23 that's necessary and one that's supportive, we 4420 1 support it just as we do in all areas and, of 2 course, you could do that in the wine country. 3 That's important; the Adirondacks; New York 4 City; Monroe County and Rockland County. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But just so, 6 again through you, Mr. President, Senator 7 Stafford. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Stafford, you continue to yield to Senator 10 Dollinger? Senator Stafford yields. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, go ahead. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just want to 13 ask you the streets that are named in this, page 14 88, is an Elyons Road and then there's Upper 15 Ashel Street, Rita Avenue, Steinmetz Lane. Are 16 those all village roads? 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, these 18 are -- these are different areas across the 19 state. It just happens, coincidentally, there 20 are two or three there from Rockland County. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is in 22 Rockland County, but you don't know how much of 23 the portion of the budget we're taking over at 4421 1 this point. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: How much of 3 what? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: How much of 5 the budget of that village or town we're taking 6 over at this point. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, again, I 8 would suggest this, Senator. I usually mention 9 this in the beginning of the discussions that I, 10 very frankly, don't think many people approach 11 -- appreciate what it's like to put a budget 12 together in this great state of New York, and I 13 use the word "great" advisedly. 14 There are many interests, there 15 are many areas, very often when I mention that 16 I'm from New York and someone asks me, you know, 17 about the city, I have to explain I'm in a rural 18 area. There are all of these different inter 19 ests that have to be supported. 20 This specific item, and we'll get 21 you the details, are a project which was 22 suggested and put in by the Assembly, but I'll 23 get you the details. 4422 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the 5 bill. I appreciate Senator Stafford's comments 6 about how difficult it is to put a budget 7 together. I think that his answer to that 8 question illustrates how difficult it is to vote 9 for it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 11 will read the last section. 12 Senator Galiber, are you asking 13 to be recognized? 14 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Thank 15 you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 Senator Stafford, would you want 21 to yield for a question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Stafford, would you yield to Senator Galiber? 4423 1 SENATOR GALIBER: But during the 2 Finance meeting this afternoon, we had a 3 discussion on prop's and reapprop's and went up 4 to a certain number and thought of using the 5 alphabet, not the alphabet because it covers 6 more than 700 pages, and there was nothing in 7 the last paragraph to say the effective date, et 8 cetera. 9 Now, I thought we'd, just for the 10 record -- I understand there might be an 11 explanation for it -- it starts with the 12 question of time, seven or eight hours versus 13 one hour and, if that be the case, I'd like the 14 record to reflect that, and if there is any 15 possibility in the final bill or this may very 16 well be it, of tying in that or whether it's a 17 chapter amendment that's needed or just a 18 statement as to why this occurred so that there 19 wouldn't be some question later on as to the 20 ending of the bill, the effective date, et 21 cetera. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: That's a very 23 valid concern, Senator. One of mine, in 4424 1 addition to that, was that the table of contents 2 was at the back of the bill, but the more I 3 think of it, probably that's the place for it, 4 but what this is, of course, it's a budget bill 5 and, of course, it's appropriated for this 6 fiscal year, and it automatically takes effect 7 immediately and goes to the end of the fiscal 8 year. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: But if - 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Galiber. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: But the 13 appropriations or the reappropriations portion 14 of this bill, would I be safe in saying that the 15 reappropriations were printed perhaps earlier 16 than the rest of the bill? 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: That was. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: And that might 19 very well be the explanation because they 20 already had it printed. Of course, they had 21 reapprop's and then when this was printed, they, 22 just in the interest of time, added the budget 23 in. 4425 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: The budget in. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR GOLD: If I may, Mr. 5 President, just on the same point. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter, do you yield to Senator Gold? 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: I think Senator 12 Galiber is trying to establish the record, and I 13 appreciate that, and I think the record should 14 indicate that what we have are numbered pages 15 which runs through to 139, followed by pages 16 which start with numbering R-1 and run through 17 to R-791, and so without the index which does 18 make reference to numbers that do -- regular 19 numbers and some numbers that start with "R", 20 this bill is, as I understand it, the total of 21 139-plus 791, or some 930 pages or thereabouts; 22 is that correct, Senator Stafford? 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'll leave it 4426 1 to you. 2 SENATOR GOLD: You can say yes. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 8 you know, this is as usual, sort of a grab bag, 9 the Capital Budget and what's -- what's one 10 person's gold is another person's dross and it's 11 from, I guess anybody's viewpoint full of some 12 good things and full of some things that are not 13 so good. 14 One of the problems, of course, 15 is that the bill appears on our desk, and while 16 it may seem strange to say some 66 or 67 days 17 after the budget was passed that we really 18 haven't had a chance to examine it, but due to 19 the process, that happens to be the case, that 20 the bill is here and while we know some things 21 about it and both Conferences, I'm sure, have 22 spent some time on it, obviously there are some 23 things in here that most members, certainly 4427 1 speaking for myself, have not had a chance to 2 fully understand or appreciate. So some of my 3 comments are based just on what I'm told is - 4 is in the bill. 5 I do want to say that I think, as 6 we go through the finally voting on the budget, 7 we'll have more chance maybe to talk about the 8 process and hopefully to learn from what has 9 happened and maybe make some modifications. 10 One of my concerns about the 11 Capital Budget is, I'm told there is some 12 additional 42 million appropriation for stadia 13 and other sporting facilities throughout the 14 state of New York. I think -- I supported the 15 bill that we had last year to have state support 16 for these local stadiums, but I certainly didn't 17 expect that it would be as open-ended and that 18 we would keep on adding to it, and while I 19 appreciate the value of sporting events and 20 giving our communities the ability to have these 21 events, I just question whether at a time when 22 our infrastructure is as deteriorated and frayed 23 as it is, that we want to put this amount of 4428 1 money into more sporting facilities. 2 The fact is that we've got 3 terrible problems maintaining our transportation 4 system, our sewer system, our -- our system to 5 dispose of solid waste; there's enormous needs 6 in this state, and I don't know whether you can 7 say -- and I don't think you can -- that the 8 most important need that we have is to spend 9 more money on sports facilities. I guess there 10 is a long tradition in spending money for that. 11 I guess that's what the Romans did. The first 12 thing they did is they built a circus, the 13 Coliseum, and I guess the way the Governor's 14 bread and circus, if you can't get both bread 15 and circus, be sure you do the circus first. 16 And so I'm going to vote for this 17 bill, but I certainly don't want to associate 18 myself with that expenditure, and while some 19 people will say, Well, this brings economic 20 development, so on, there have been all sorts of 21 studies that show that the sports facilities 22 really are not the best way to further economic 23 development. In fact, it usually ends up 4429 1 costing money. 2 I also want to say that I very 3 much regret that an appropriation, I think, that 4 we should make for the sort of things that I'd 5 like to see in the Capital Budget, and this 6 would be for an additional facility for John Jay 7 College of Justice in the city of New York, 8 really one of the premier institutions that we 9 have in this state, a world class institution. 10 We're famous throughout the world in criminal 11 justice circles for that institution, and it 12 desperately needs additional space and there 13 should have been money in the budget for that. 14 I also understand there is a new 15 program in here for -- to assist throughout the 16 state and particularly in the city of New York 17 the school maintenance and school renovation and 18 repair which is certainly very much needed. 19 So, Mr. President, I guess at 20 this juncture and this point, and 67 days late, 21 one should greet these budget bills with relief 22 and maybe not carp about what's missing or 23 what's in here, as I'm doing, but I think it is 4430 1 important to point out some features of this 2 which I think are disturbing. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 5 any other Senator wishing to speak on this bill? 6 If not, the Clerk will read the last section. 7 Senator Solomon. 8 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yeah, Mr. 9 President. I guess I'll just explain my vote 10 before you read the last section. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Explain 12 your vote. Let me read the last section then. 13 The Clerk will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 Senator Solomon to explain his 20 vote. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I would normally be voting for 4431 1 this part of the budget. However, we in 2 Brooklyn have been seeking a sports stadium for 3 a number of years, an amateur sports facility. 4 In fact, our numbers show that, if we could get 5 assistance in building this facility it would be 6 able to run and survive on on its own income; 7 and for that reason and in view of stadiums 8 throughout the various locations in the state, 9 I'm going to vote against this bill. 10 Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Solomon in the negative. Senator Dollinger in 13 the negative, Senator Jones in the negative. 14 Announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 1141 are 17 Senators Dollinger, Jones, Pataki and Solomon. 18 Ayes 50, nays 4. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Senator Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 can we call up Calendar 1142, please. 4432 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 2 will read Calendar Number 1142. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1142, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 5 Bill Number 5850, an act in relation to certain 6 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of 7 certain appropriations. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 is there a message of necessity on Calendar 12 Number 1142 at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Journal 14 Clerk indicates there is a message of necessity 15 here, Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 I move that we accept the message. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 19 to accept the message. All those in favor, 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 4433 1 The message is accepted. 2 Clerk will read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 10 the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 3, 12 Senators Dollinger, Jones and Pataki recorded in 13 the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we take up Calendar Number 1140. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 20 will read Calendar Number 1140. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1140, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Bill Number 23 6452-A, an act making appropriations for the 4434 1 legal requirements of the state debt service. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 is there a message of necessity on Calendar 6 1140? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Journal Clerk indicates there is a message of 9 necessity at the desk, Mr. President. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 I move we accept the message. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 13 to accept the message of necessity at the desk. 14 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Opposed nay. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 The message is accepted. 19 Clerk will read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4435 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 3, 6 Senators Dollinger, Jones and Pataki recorded in 7 the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 can we take up Calendar Number 1143, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 14 will read Calendar Number 1143. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1143, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Bill Number 5851, an act in relation to certain 18 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of 19 certain appropriations. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 4436 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Present, the Journal Clerk indicates that there 3 is a message of necessity at the desk. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 I move that we accept that message. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 7 to accept the message of necessity at the desk. 8 All those in favor, signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The message is adopted. 13 Clerk will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 21 the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51, nays 3, 23 Senators Dollinger, Jones and Pataki recorded in 4437 1 the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 could we take up the non-controversial 7 calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 9 will call the non-controversial calendar. 10 THE SECRETARY: On page 8, 11 Calendar Number 433, by Senator Levy, Senate 12 Bill Number 80-C, an act to amend the 13 Transportation Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 22 one, Senator Cook recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4438 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 434, by Senator Levy. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 5 for the day, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside for the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 478, by Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that one 11 aside for the day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside for the day. 14 Senator Daly, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR DALY: Could I be voted 16 in the negative on Calendar Number 433, Senate 17 Print 80-C. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 19 objection, Senator Daly will be recorded in the 20 negative on Calendar Number 433. 21 Senator Farley. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: 433, in the 23 negative. 4439 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, Senator Farley will be recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 433. 4 Senator Sears. 5 SENATOR SEARS: Same request. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Sears will be recorded in the 8 negative on Calendar Number 433. 9 Clerk will continue the roll. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 607, by Senator Levy. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 13 for the day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside for the day. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 780, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 18 7902. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 20 for the day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside for the day. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4440 1 800, by Senator Holland. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Mr. President, in 6 behalf of Senator Holland, may I star Calendar 7 800? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 9 will put a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 10 800. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1003, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 13 2645-A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 14 Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4441 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1053, by Senator Daly. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1093, by Senator Cook. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1099, substituted earlier today, by member of 13 the Assembly Reynolds, Assembly Bill Number 14 10211-B, an act to amend the Tax Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 23 one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the 4442 1 negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1120, substituted earlier today, by member of 6 the Assembly Pordum, Assembly Bill Number 7 10860-A, an act to amend the Local Finance Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1122, substituted earlier today, by member of 20 the Assembly Glick, Assembly Bill Number 9751, 21 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to the use 22 of interpreters. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 4443 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1123, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7164, 12 an act to amend the Highway Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 There is a home rule message at 20 the desk, Senator Present. The Clerk will read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 4444 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1124, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7166, 9 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1125, substituted earlier today. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 23 for the day, please. 4445 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside for the day. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1126, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 5 7583, Environmental Conservation Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1127, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 18 7719, Real Property Tax Law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1128, by Senator Gold, Senate Bill Number 7765, 4446 1 Education Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1129, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 14 7886-A, authorize the town of Van Buren, county 15 of Onondaga, to convey an easement. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 4447 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 bill's passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1130, substituted earlier today, by member of 5 the Assembly Destito, Assembly Bill Number 9579 6 A, Education Law, in relation to pupil tests for 7 scoliosis. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1131, by Senator Marino, Senate Bill Number 20 7950, an act to amend the Penal Law and the 21 Vehicle and Traffic Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 23 last section. 4448 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1132, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 8156, 11 an act to amend the Education Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1133, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 4449 1 8344, an act to amend the Penal Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Present? 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Place a 5 sponsor's star on Calendar 1133, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 7 will put a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 8 1133. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1134, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 8493, 11 an act to amend the Tax Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Got a 21 negative vote. 22 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. Ayes 23 54, nays one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the 4450 1 negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1135, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8519, 6 require New York State Teachers' Retirement 7 System to accept a retirement application. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 9 will read the last section. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1136, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Bill 16 Number 8523, an act to amend the Tax Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4451 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1138, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 6 Bill Number 8525, an act to amend the Vehicle 7 and Traffic Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Present, that completes 19 the non-controversial calendar. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 can we call up 1145, I believe, '43, '45. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 23 will read Calendar Number 1145. 4452 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1145, reported directly for third reading 3 earlier today, by the Senate Committee on Rules, 4 Senate Bill Number 7153, an act to amend the 5 Social Services Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Present, an explanation has been asked for by 9 Senator Gold. What Senator will be handling the 10 debate? 11 Senator Farley, an explanation 12 has been asked for on Calendar Number 1145, 13 Senate Print 7153, by Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: This is the bill 15 that we do every year, at least in the last few 16 years, which has been described as the "Donovan 17 bill" which brings us somewhat in conformity 18 with 40-some-odd states in the nation that says 19 we'll only pay for Medicaid funding for poor 20 women where the health of the mother or life of 21 the mother, or for rape, substantiated rape, and 22 incest. 23 This particular legislation - 4453 1 yes, danger to the life of the mother, I think I 2 said that. This does not outlaw abortions. The 3 Supreme Court has already spoken on that. We 4 hear a lot of debate that this legislation would 5 take away the woman's right to abortion. It 6 doesn't do that. In 1993, there were 49,000 7 abortions which were funded by Medicaid at a 8 cost of $26.7 million. 9 You know, this issue is one that 10 is very personal with many members in this 11 house, and one that people feel deeply on. I 12 respect their opinions, but for as long as I'm 13 here, I feel that this is legislation that is 14 needed. 15 For years, we had to do an 16 amendment to the budget, hold up the budget on 17 this issue. That was the only avenue it had in 18 this house year after year, pass that 19 amendment. Unfortunately, in order to -- many 20 members had to cave in on this issue, and so 21 that the budget could pass. 22 This is a piece of legislation 23 Senator Donovan always wanted, a piece of 4454 1 legislation that puts this house on record that 2 we will not fund elective abortions. As I said, 3 it's 40-some-odd states also agree with that. 4 New York State has become the abortion mecca of 5 the nation practically. It's something that I 6 think that is needed as a message. 7 And let me just say something: I 8 don't see him in this house, but for years and 9 years many people have carried this -- this 10 amendment and this bill. Senator Nolan, for the 11 20 years that he's been here, I've always heard 12 him stand up and speak on this issue and so many 13 others. 14 This particular legislation is 15 reasonable. If you look at the state of 16 Pennsylvania, what they have done in this area, 17 it's substantially more significant, in my 18 judgment, and much more inclusive. This is a 19 very reasonable piece of legislation. Several 20 members in this house that are pro-choice vote 21 for this legislation because they don't feel 22 that the state should be in the business of 23 funding elective abortions. If it's necessary, 4455 1 as I said, because the life of the mother, or if 2 there's rape involved and it's an incident 3 reported within 48 hours, or if it's a result of 4 incest where the mother is a minor and the 5 incident is reported prior to the abortion, 6 that's all that this bill does and it does not 7 outlaw abortion. It just brings us in 8 conformity with the rest of the nation. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 12 recognizes -- Senator Oppenheimer, why do you 13 rise? 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 15 like to speak on the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a 17 list going, Senator Oppenheimer. If you'd like 18 to speak, I'll put you on the list just behind 19 Senator Goodman. 20 Senator Goodman, before you 21 start, could we just hold for 20 seconds. 22 The Chair recognizes Senator 23 Goodman. 4456 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 2 once again, we are asked to revisit a question 3 which has often been -- may I ask for a little 4 order, Mr. President? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Goodman, your point is well taken. There's a 7 little too much chatter in the chamber. Could 8 we please have the members take their seats, 9 staff take their places. Let's calm the chamber 10 down. 11 The Chair recognizes Senator 12 Goodman. Thank you. 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 14 once again, we're asked to deal with this 15 question which has come up virtually every year 16 in my memory over a quarter of a century in this 17 house, and on each occasion we try to debate a 18 few fundamental propositions with respect to the 19 matter of abortion. 20 Now, the question before us today 21 is not whether abortion may legally be performed 22 in the state of New York. That matter has long 23 since been decided by action we took some 23 4457 1 years ago when we passed the abortion reform law 2 in this house, and Senator Present and Senator 3 Galiber, Senator Marchi, who were present at 4 that time, will recall the extraordinary and 5 memorable debate which resolved the question in 6 the affirmative and said that henceforth it 7 would be legal in the state of New York for a 8 woman seeking to terminate a pregnancy by 9 abortion to do so during the first trimester of 10 pregnancy. 11 Unfortunately, with that matter 12 having been decided and with various reinforc 13 ing measures having been approved by the United 14 States Supreme Court, we are nonetheless asked 15 each year to entertain a proposition from those 16 who put forth this bill which runs something 17 like this: Why should a taxpayer have to finance 18 out of taxpayer funds an abortion? If a woman 19 wants an abortion, fine, but why should a 20 taxpayer have to pay for it? And that joins the 21 question, because the issue is very direct and 22 very clear. 23 We, as taxpayers, are called upon 4458 1 every day to pay for things of which we 2 disapprove. I may not approve of something that 3 is being constructed in your district, and you 4 may not approve of some service which is being 5 rendered in my district but, as a result of the 6 decision of this house which is the people's 7 house charged with the responsibility of making 8 these decisions, we find ourselves often seeing 9 our taxpayer monies go for things which we may 10 personally find distasteful. 11 No, Mr. President, the issue runs 12 far deeper than this. The issue runs, in my 13 judgment, along the following lines: If we grant 14 the privilege to obtain an abortion within the 15 legal constraints set by state law, do we have 16 the right to prevent her from getting that 17 abortion solely on the grounds that her economic 18 circumstances do not permit it? In short, do we 19 find it appropriate to discriminate against 20 those poor women whose only recourse in the 21 matter of abortion is to rely upon the public 22 funds provided through the Medicaid assistance 23 program? 4459 1 I think the issue is exceedingly 2 clear in this case. If an individual were 3 visited with a disease, we would not refuse to 4 treat that individual because they fall below a 5 certain income level, or if an individual broke 6 a leg and were taken to an emergency room in a 7 hospital, we most assuredly would not deny that 8 individual treatment. 9 Similarly, it seems to me quite 10 evident along the same line of reasoning that 11 if, in accordance with the legal statutes of 12 this state and the United States of America, a 13 woman feels that she wishes to terminate a 14 pregnancy through abortion, has counseled with 15 the appropriate people, her clergyman, her 16 physician and the like, and proceeds to wish to 17 seek an abortion, that we must not artificially 18 erect a barrier to prevent her from doing so. 19 That's the core question, and that's one which I 20 believe to be inescapable. 21 Mr. President, it's regrettable 22 that this matter must come up every year, but 23 I'm afraid that, as long as we are here and as 4460 1 long as that clock ticks on the wall, this will 2 be revisited upon us annually and we must each 3 year get up and restate the premises on the 4 basis of which we try to make this service 5 available. 6 In the simple name of humanity 7 and equal treatment for all, we can not deny a 8 poor woman an abortion, and it's for that reason 9 that I urge the defeat of this measure. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 11 recognizes Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 As my colleague from Manhattan, 15 Senator Goodman, pointed out, I guess we are 16 destined year after year, to revisit certain 17 subjects. They don't seem to go away, and there 18 are some subjects which you would say you would 19 hope intellectually would go away, but there are 20 subjects which just are so politically volatile 21 that there are groups that will not let them go 22 away for whatever those reasons be. 23 This bill has slid by a few 4461 1 times. I'm hopeful this year, maybe it won't 2 slide by and maybe we can discourage its 3 introduction in future years. Obviously, this 4 is a bill which will require a slow roll call. 5 We've debated it so often, I say to myself, what 6 basically can be said other than the repetitions 7 of prior years and, since I don't want to do 8 that and won't do that, I want to limit my 9 remarks today and just say that it seems to me 10 that, while the debate on this issue has, from 11 time to time, lacked dignity and many of us have 12 tried to horrify the other side with visual 13 types of arguments, and while the procedures 14 involved in abortion are certainly not the most 15 dignified times of a woman's life, the bill does 16 deal with human dignity and the right of women 17 to the dignity in the decisions of what happens 18 with their bodies. 19 Abortion is not something that is 20 considered by women the same way you decide 21 whether you want a Diet Pepsi or a Diet Coke. 22 These are serious decisions taken by women very 23 seriously, and to suggest that women take this 4462 1 decision without that degree of seriousness is 2 to have a degrading feeling in your own mind 3 about women. 4 I have to believe that there 5 isn't any one of us who doesn't know some woman 6 who decided at some point in her life to have an 7 abortion, and I can not believe that, when we 8 personalize this into people we know, we would 9 think of those people as being totally 10 irresponsible, people who had no particular 11 caring or feeling for human rights or life, and 12 if you put it into that perspective, if you can 13 at least accept the fact that a human being, who 14 by accident of birth is a woman rather than a 15 man, might have some caring and might have some 16 feeling, you can understand that these decisions 17 are taken extraordinarily seriously by the 18 people who are involved. 19 I, personally, do not believe in 20 abortion as a matter of birth control and in 21 situations don't think that I or -- would 22 encourage anybody to do it. But my feelings are 23 not the issue. The issue is whether or not a 4463 1 particular woman, a particular man and woman, if 2 they have that kind of a relationship, can make 3 the judgment for themselves in this country 4 rather than put us back in the back alleys. 5 Now, there's one advantage. I 6 will tell you this, one advantage of talking it 7 out all the years is that there are some of us 8 who remember the beginning of these debates and 9 when I said that some of them were less than 10 dignified, I remember why at the time they were 11 less than dignified, because we were dealing 12 with the reality, a reality of butchered women 13 in back alleys, having their bodies subjected to 14 literal torture, oftentimes by people with no 15 medical training. The only training these 16 people had was the 10 or 20 other women that 17 were abused by them and butchered by them, and 18 that's what -- those are days which we can not 19 revert back to. 20 Now, someone will say, Well, 21 Senator, don't worry about that. We're not 22 going back to that, because there are women 23 legally "buying", quotes/unquotes, their 4464 1 abortions in America today and in New York State 2 today. 3 The problem is, again, dealing 4 with reality. You can go into some lovely 5 neighborhoods in New York, go into some 6 furniture stores and get some great bargains. 7 Go into some of our poor neighborhoods and what 8 they say are bargains are usually people being 9 over-charged, and if you think I'm kidding you, 10 you go check it out. 11 So what happens? You say that we 12 are not going to make it available for poor 13 women under a private program, and I guarantee 14 you that you're opening the door for those 15 butchers to raise their prices in the areas of 16 our city and in our community where they can 17 afford it the least. 18 So the negatives inherent in this 19 bill are very serious, and I would hope that, 20 once and for all, we could get this out of the 21 arena that it's in and understand the human 22 needs involved. 23 I hope, once and for all, we can 4465 1 get the vote on this so overwhelmingly against 2 this bill that maybe we'll see the end of it. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think the 7 society-at-large should recognize that this 8 Medicaid funding for poor women's abortion which 9 has been coming up year after year every year 10 I've been here -- and that's ten years, that I 11 think it's important to note that this is a 12 society, this Medicaid funding for poor women's 13 abortion has dramatically improved maternal and 14 child health which is something of great concern 15 to us because of the high cost of health care in 16 our society. 17 Prior to 1970, the poor suffered 18 disproportionately high maternal and infant 19 losses due to illegal abortion, and basically 20 due to too frequent births that were too closely 21 spaced, but poor women have always been more 22 vulnerable to -- to pregnancy complications and 23 death due to poor nutrition and excessive births 4466 1 and their babies, due to inadequate prenatal 2 care, have more frequently been born of low 3 birth weight and premature and with birth 4 defects and these -- these problems are very 5 costly for society. 6 We figure that between 32- and 7 $113 million in tax funds, monies which would 8 have been spent for welfare and maternity 9 benefits for poor women in the first year alone, 10 that's the first year of the child's life, could 11 have been saved if they had not been forced to 12 carry a pregnancy to term that they did not want 13 to carry to term. 14 This Medicaid funding has reduced 15 the inequities between poor women. Most of 16 those poor women are -- are minorities in our 17 society. This has reduced the inequality 18 between them and affluent women who with that 19 approved could always manage to get a safe, 20 convenient abortion. The women who are poor 21 could only get it through Medicaid funding. 22 If abortion were legal but not 23 accessible through Medicaid, a woman on public 4467 1 assistance could still get an abortion but it 2 would probably cost at least three-quarters of 3 the monthly welfare allowance for her entire 4 family. 5 Some people think that -- some 6 anti-choice forces think that -- that women opt 7 for an abortion as a whim, as a method of con 8 traception and that there's an irresponsibility 9 about the choice and because this option exists 10 that they are frivolous in the way they manage 11 their -- their sexual life, and I can only 12 assure you that abortion is not a whim and these 13 assertions have never been supported by the 14 facts. 15 60 percent of women having 16 abortions have never had a previous abortion. 17 24 percent have had one abortion previously. So 18 it is not being used frivolously by poor women 19 as a method of contraception. 20 I think individuals in -- in 21 American society, regardless of their age or 22 income, must be free to make their own decisions 23 about child bearing based on their life 4468 1 situation at that moment, at that moment in 2 time, how they are economically poised to handle 3 having children, to bringing up a family, to 4 putting in the time, the effort and the 5 knowledge into raising a child. 6 It is not easy to raise a child, 7 particularly a single parent, and, of course, 8 they have to consult with their doctor and face 9 their own beliefs as far as religious and moral 10 values. It is very difficult for me when I hear 11 people in this chamber say that they are pro 12 choice and yet they do not seem to be pro 13 choice for poor women. They do not seem to be 14 pro-choice for young women, and it's very 15 confounding to me to find -- to try and 16 understand where they are pro-choice. 17 If they're pro-choice for the 18 affluent, upper socio-economic woman who can go 19 about taking care of her problems, I don't think 20 that's where government needs to be. That woman 21 is able to provide for herself. Government is 22 there to help the young, to help the poor, and I 23 can't understand someone calling themselves 4469 1 pro-choice and not being there for those 2 essential services which must be provided to the 3 people in need. 4 I feel the women in America 5 should never be thrown back to the degrading and 6 dangerous time of illegal abortions when women 7 were risking their lives. We have appalling 8 statistics on the number of women that died. 9 And who are these women? They were mostly poor 10 women, because affluent women have always been 11 able to take care of their problems. Thousands 12 upon thousands died before abortion was made 13 legal and we turned our attention to providing 14 for those that were least able in our society to 15 provide for themselves. 16 In the past, I have talked about 17 the economic providing of Medicaid funding for 18 abortion. I don't think I'll talk about it this 19 year. Suffice it to say that it is much less 20 costly to provide the abortion for a poor woman 21 who needs one than to take care of their child 22 after birth when they are eligible for fully 23 funded services for not only medical care for 4470 1 the infant but for subsequent services that can 2 amount to considerably more. 3 In New York State, the average 4 Medicaid abortion costs about $350, but the 5 first year expenditure for maternity care and 6 for AFDC is about $7,000. So costwise it 7 certainly can't be what is being considered 8 because the cost was being considered by the 9 opponents because costwise it's much more - 10 much more frugal to go with the Medicaid 11 abortions. 12 I'd like to conclude with reading 13 off the many, many groups that do support 14 Medicaid funding for abortions including the New 15 York State Republican Family Committee that 16 believe that government must play a constructive 17 role in ensuring that people of different views 18 and differing values are allowed to follow their 19 consciences irrespective of whether they are 20 well-to-do or poor. 21 They believe that the Medicaid 22 funding for abortion is important because it 23 does, first and foremost, safeguard a woman's 4471 1 health. We all know what the alternatives are 2 and they should be totally unacceptable to this 3 body. They also urge Medicaid funding because 4 it is fair and it is just and, as I mentioned, 5 of course, it saves taxpayers money. 6 Let me briefly read some of the 7 principal groups that are supporting Medicaid 8 funding for abortion, and I certainly won't read 9 them all: American Jewish Congress; American 10 Association of University Women; Catholics for a 11 Free Choice; Community Service Society of New 12 York; the Diocese of New York of the Protestant 13 Episcopal Church; District Council 37; 14 International Association of Women Ministers; 15 League of Women Voters of New York State; 16 National Association of Social Workers; National 17 Council of Jewish Women; New York Society for 18 Ethical Culture; New York Women in Criminal 19 Justice; New York Coalition of Women's 20 Legislative Issues; New York State Council of 21 Churches; New York State Nurses Association; 22 Physicians for Choice; Presbytery of Western New 23 York; Committee on Women in the Church; Women's 4472 1 Bar Association, and SASU. 2 I hope that you will consider 3 that, in our society, it is only fair to permit 4 all people to benefit from their constitutional 5 right and, in this case, if a well-to-do woman 6 can get this right, how can we prohibit a woman 7 who is poor from receiving the same attention 8 and service? 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 11 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 Will the sponsor yield? Will 15 Senator Farley yield to just two quick 16 questions, if you would? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Farley, do you yield? 19 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm not really 20 the sponsor, but I explained the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Farley yields. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just want 4473 1 to make sure I understand two aspects of the 2 bill before I address them in my remarks. In 3 line 7 of the bill, it makes reference to the 4 fact that an abortion would be permitted if it 5 were the result of rape as defined in Section 6 130.35 of the Penal Law; isn't that correct? 7 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct; 8 that's what it says. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 10 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Farley 11 would yield, who makes that determination that 12 that occurred through rape? Wouldn't that 13 require a trial in a court in order to determine 14 whether the woman was a victim of a rape and 15 that there was a lack of consent and all the 16 other ingredients? 17 SENATOR FARLEY: The intent of 18 the bill is that abortion is permitted if the 19 rape is reported within 48 hours. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But it has to 21 be defined; it has to be the result of rape as 22 defined in section 130.35 of the Penal Law? 23 SENATOR FARLEY: That's correct. 4474 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who makes 2 that determination, if Senator Farley, through 3 you, will continue to yield? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I presume the 5 court. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So you 7 couldn't have an abortion until after the court 8 had determined that the woman who was seeking 9 the abortion had been raped and that the rape 10 constituted a violent crime under the Penal Law 11 of the state of New York? 12 SENATOR FARLEY: It's my 13 understanding that there does not have to be a 14 conviction for rape. It's just the fact that 15 it's been reported and the police department 16 reports that there has been a rape. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 18 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Farley 19 will continue to yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Farley, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4475 1 continues to yield. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One of the 3 questions in the issue of rape is whether there 4 is consent. Who makes the determination whether 5 the woman has consented to sexual intercourse or 6 not so that it constitutes a rape under this 7 bill? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: I would say the 9 woman. The woman, in my judgment. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. So 11 again, through you, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Farley continue to yield? Senator Farley 14 continues to yield. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The bill 16 provides that if the woman makes an allegation 17 of rape and reports that, she's entitled to an 18 abortion under those circumstances, is that 19 correct? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Give me that 21 again. If the woman - 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, could we just have a little order in 4476 1 the chamber? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me just say 3 something that might clarify some of your 4 questions. 5 Basically what this bill does, it 6 puts us in conformity with the fed's from the 7 point of view, for instance, they're going to be 8 -- it's my understanding that they're going to 9 extend the federal abortion bill to include 10 fetal deformity. Should that happen, our 11 legislation would conform to that. In other 12 words, we are conforming our abortion laws with 13 the federal government in order to qualify for 14 Medicaid. That's what this legislation will 15 do. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. But just 17 again so I understand it, it's the language 18 actually says it's the result of a rape as 19 defined in Section 130.35 of the Penal Law, but 20 you couldn't come to a determination as to 21 whether that section of the law had been 22 violated until the court had made a 23 determination that a rape as defined in that 4477 1 section had actually taken place. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: That's not my 3 understanding at all. I don't think -- I'd have 4 to check with counsel, but I don't think that 5 that's my understanding that there has to be a 6 conviction and a court determination that there 7 was a rape. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. But is 9 it safe to say then, if the woman made the 10 allegation that she was raped, that would be 11 sufficient to trigger her right to an abortion? 12 SENATOR FARLEY: If it was 13 substantiated within 48 hours, I presume with 14 the authorities of the police department. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But, again 16 through you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Farley continue to yield? 19 SENATOR FARLEY: That's 20 committing a crime if you report a rape and 21 haven't been raped, theoretically. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand 23 that, Senator. I'm just trying to get at what I 4478 1 consider the critical issue which is a woman 2 reports that she's raped, is it safe to say 3 under this statute she would then be entitled to 4 have an abortion regardless of whether the rape 5 allegation proved to be true or not? 6 SENATOR FARLEY: If she qualifies 7 for Medicaid. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again I'm 9 assuming it's just Medicaid women, women who 10 qualify for Medicaid. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. And is 13 the same thing true also with the incest 14 provision, again through you, Mr. President, if 15 Senator Farley would continue to yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He does. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's simply 18 the reporting of incest, an allegation of incest 19 that would trigger a woman who qualifies for 20 Medicaid to have an abortion. There wouldn't be 21 a court adjudication because that, of course, 22 would take a long time and probably far longer 23 than the nine-month gestation period. 4479 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, that's 2 right. What happens here is that that incest 3 has to be reported where the mother is a minor 4 and the incident is reported prior to the 5 abortion. So that incidents would have to - 6 there's not a 48-hour requirement there. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 8 you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Farley, you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm not crazy 12 over it, but I will. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I apologize, 16 Senator, but it raises an interesting point with 17 respect to the determination. Who makes the 18 determination as to whether actual incest has 19 occurred or not under this statute? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: I guess the 21 child that was -- that was abused makes that 22 determination. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. 4480 1 SENATOR FARLEY: It's reported 2 that she's pregnant as a result of incest; I 3 think that's all that is required. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Dollinger, on the bill. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The reason 9 why I asked Senator Farley, and I appreciate 10 Senator Farley's very candid answers in those 11 questions, that while I think this bill, while 12 well motivated, in effect, by the sponsors 13 really goes into a whole area of the law that 14 goes far afield of the target that the sponsors 15 intend. By an actual reading of the statute, it 16 says that you'd have to show that it's an actual 17 rape under the Penal Law. 18 I submit to the sponsors and 19 those who are going to vote in favor of this 20 bill that that determination couldn't be made 21 until you'd had a trial on the underlying rape 22 issue. It would be a long time before you would 23 get to that trial. It's not going to work. 4481 1 It's practically not going to work. 2 The same thing is true with 3 respect to incest. You'd need a determination 4 that incest has occurred. That would take years 5 in a court, long after this woman would have 6 been denied her right to abortion, but the 7 critical point that Senator Farley has 8 acknowledged, which I think is absolutely 9 critical, it seems to me that what the sponsors 10 are saying that, if you allege it's a rape or if 11 you allege it's incest, you can then qualify for 12 an abortion. 13 What that says to me is that 14 we're willing to trust the poor women of this 15 state to make a valid determination that they've 16 been raped or that they're a victim of incest, 17 that they have -- the sponsors of this proposal 18 are acknowledging that they have the dignity 19 sufficient to make those allegations and make 20 those determinations, that they lack consent or 21 that they were a victim of incest. 22 If we allow them the dignity of 23 sanctioning their allegation, if we're willing 4482 1 to give such weight to their allegation, why 2 can't we simply give them the other side of 3 dignity, which is to allow them to choose 4 abortion by themselves? If we recognize their 5 capability to properly report a rape or incest, 6 why couldn't we also recognize that they've got 7 the ability to make the choice about whether to 8 carry the child to term? 9 We respect their judgment in one 10 area; why don't we respect their judgment in the 11 other and give them the right to the same 12 dignity that every one of us would want our 13 daughters to have? And that's purely the 14 dignity to make decisions about their own lives, 15 their own bodies. It seems to me you can't 16 respect their dignity in one respect in this 17 statute and deny their fundamental dignity to 18 make a choice about whether they're going to 19 carry their child to term. 20 I see this statute as being 21 impossible to actually bring about. I see the 22 wording of it so broadly as to create a 23 conundrum for the judges in this state that they 4483 1 will never be able to unravel, and I see it 2 being Janus-like, written with two heads, one 3 head that says if you report the rape we'll 4 recognize that you're entitled to an abortion 5 and we trust you to fairly report it or we don't 6 trust you to make the right decision about 7 whether to have an abortion. 8 I think the poor women of this 9 state deserve a consistent dignity and that is a 10 dignity to make their own decisions without 11 having to go through this complicated 12 procedure. 13 Mr. President, I'm opposed to 14 this measure. I think this says the wrong thing 15 about the dignity that we should extend to the 16 poor women in this state, and it seems to me 17 that this has come up time and time and time 18 again, but this statute doesn't do what it is 19 apparently intended to do and, worse yet, it 20 offends the dignity of poor women in this 21 state. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4484 1 Farley, we have a list going that - 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Senator 3 Dollinger, with all due respect, I think you're 4 wrong on that. This particular statute, whether 5 it becomes a statute remains to be seen, this 6 particular bill is not complicated at all. It 7 does not take away the choice of a woman or a 8 girl. We can't do that. They have that choice 9 under the law. 10 What we're doing is saying, we're 11 only going to pay for Medicaid funded abortions 12 in these three instances which the vast 13 majority, I think it's 42 -- I don't have the 14 number of states -- 38 states say exactly the 15 same thing. Some are much more restrictive. 16 This follows and tracks the 17 federal law. As the good lawyer that I know 18 that you are, uniformity of law is the thing 19 that we -- we pursue. This makes us uniform 20 with the rest of the nation and the federal 21 government. 22 I urge its passage. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 4485 1 has Senator Connor next on the list, but I don't 2 see him in the chamber at the moment. 3 Senator Maltese is next on the 4 list. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 6 as Senator Farley has so ably pointed out, the 7 question of the law, I believe, is clear enough 8 that it's been followed in 38 states as pointed 9 out by the New York State Catholic Conference. 10 What we're talking about here is 11 the payment by state taxpayers of abortion that 12 they may oppose in all conscience, the people 13 who are using it as a birth control device, who 14 have had in many cases repeated abortions. 15 It's pointed out that every day 16 in New York State 137 unborn children die from 17 abortions paid for with those self-same tax 18 dollars. That's 50 -- almost 50,000 babies per 19 year, 57,540 tax dollars per day, 21 million tax 20 dollars per year, that could be better spent to 21 alleviate more serious problems by people who 22 require social service and taxpayer assistance. 23 The New York State Catholic 4486 1 Conference, on behalf of the Catholic bishops of 2 New York State have pointed out that in 1992, 3 New York State taxpayers spent $20,500,000 for 4 49,700 abortions. In the same year, the federal 5 government spent only 331,000 -- $331,000, 6 that's a third of a million dollars for 267 7 abortions. To put it in perspective, the 8 federal government is paying for 267 abortions 9 nationwide and New York State is paying for 10 50,000 abortions. 11 Now, the United States Supreme 12 Court has indicated that no state is required to 13 fund this procedure. Indeed, states may 14 financially favor child birth over abortion 15 which has been reiterated just recently. 16 As Senator Farley pointed out, 17 the Medicaid program in our state goes far 18 beyond any other state. It is perfectly 19 reasonable, given the confines of what -- what 20 the state is willing to pay for that, in cases 21 of rape, incest, and danger to the life of the 22 mother, that these be exceptions where women - 23 poor women can avail themselves of these 4487 1 abortions should they choose to do so. 2 The Catholic Conference also 3 points out proponents, and I quote, from their 4 letter of April 12th, "Proponents of abortion 5 subsidies increasingly supply the dehumanizing 6 and callous argument that Medicaid abortion 7 funding is cheaper than child birth and a 8 legitimate means of reducing welfare costs. 9 Such arguments are not only invalid; they are 10 unworthy of a truly civilized society." 11 Now, lest we think that that is 12 alarmist language, I wish to point out from a 13 memo dated April 5th from the New York State 14 NARAL, National Abortion Rights Action League, a 15 sentence. "For every one dollar spent by the 16 state to pay for abortions, about $4 is saved in 17 public medical and welfare expenditures incurred 18 as a result of the unintended births." 19 So here we have New York State 20 NARAL tending to appeal to what I consider the 21 baser emotion, trying to save money by 22 slaughtering helpless fetuses. If this is a 23 humanizing process, it's beyond me. What we are 4488 1 attempting to do here is pass reasonable 2 legislation to prevent somebody who is a 3 taxpayer from subsidizing somebody else's 4 abortion on demand. 5 I -- Mr. President, I support 6 this bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 8 recognizes Senator Montgomery. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 I initially was going to ask 12 Senator Farley to yield, but I won't do that. 13 I'll just speak to the legislation. 14 I take this very personally, and 15 the reason I take it very personally is that I 16 can put myself in the shoes of women who might 17 have to avail themselves of Medicaid funding for 18 such a procedure or other, and I take it as 19 anti-woman legislation, and I will tell you why, 20 Mr. President. 21 It is because the same forces 22 that support this measure to remove the option 23 of this procedure, this medical procedure from 4489 1 poor women in this state are the same people who 2 also oppose access to a pelvic exam or a genital 3 exam, I suppose that's what you would call it, 4 for males, for young people in schools, or a 5 physical exam or a breast exam for young females 6 in school, or reproductive counseling in 7 schools, or mental health or dental services and 8 they're the same forces, Mr. President, who 9 oppose access to an item like condoms in 10 schools, by young people so that they can 11 protect themselves from disease and premature 12 pregnancy. 13 These are the same people who 14 come together and put on the floor of the 15 Legislature or put pressure on some of us in the 16 Legislature to put these measures on the floor 17 and to support them and to vote for them and 18 they're anti-women, Mr. President, and so I want 19 to be on record today. I want my colleagues to 20 understand that your opposition to school-based 21 health clinics for young people in this state 22 especially with young people in my district who 23 are dying by the thousands from disease, who are 4490 1 becoming pregnant prematurely by the hundreds, 2 daily, because they do not have access to 3 neither information nor services, and then if 4 they should become pregnant and they determine 5 that they want to -- that they want to access 6 this procedure, not in their schools, of course, 7 but that they determine that they want to do 8 this, there are the forces in the state who 9 don't want them to have access to that. 10 So for me personally and as a 11 representative of women, particularly poor women 12 and young women, adolescent women in my 13 district, this is anti-women, and I -- I just 14 want you to know that that's how I'm going to 15 perceive it. That's how I project it because 16 that's what I think it is. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 19 recognizes Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 21 Montgomery, let me assure you that, in my view, 22 those who are in support of this legislation in 23 this house that I know do not fall in the 4491 1 category that you just described. We have 2 consistently supported initiatives that involve 3 health services, particularly for young people. 4 We have consistently not only supported 5 legislation but funding of programs such as 6 outreach, women's outreach for breast 7 examinations. As a matter of fact, last year, 8 on three separate days, I had a mammography van 9 parked in front of my office for that specific 10 purpose, and kept the office open on a Saturday 11 so that it would be convenient for women to come 12 and take advantage of that opportunity. 13 So your categorization that those 14 who are in support of this bill are the same, 15 quote, people who are opposed to women's inter 16 ests and those of young people in particular, I 17 would like to suggest to you is simply not the 18 case. 19 But at the same time I think it's 20 also fair to state that it is probably also not 21 the case in the Capitol of the United States 22 where the Congress, both houses dominated by 23 your party, have repeatedly established national 4492 1 policy in law by saying that they will fund 2 under Medicaid health services for the poor and 3 indigent, but they will not fund abortion. That 4 is the law of the land and only a handful of 5 states, as outlined by Senator Farley and 6 Senator Maltese and others, have taken upon 7 themselves the prerogative of funding them with 8 state revenues, without any participation at the 9 federal level, as Medicaid provides for, as you 10 know. 11 So, if you are going to chastise 12 for this, then I think I should include the 13 Congress of the United States, but at the same 14 time, I think you would be wrong again, because 15 it is that same Congress, whether I agree with 16 everything they do or don't do, that continues 17 to promote national programs to provide funding 18 for a whole score of areas that involve health 19 care for both men and women and certainly 20 children. 21 Earlier, Senator Goodman drew an 22 analogy that I find somewhat disturbing. He 23 said that, if some woman was diseased or had a 4493 1 broken leg and needed care and treatment, we 2 would not turn that person away because of her 3 inability to pay for it and that is, of course, 4 true. But to correlate that fact with funding 5 for abortion where in one case we are reaching 6 out to someone to save her life presumably and 7 in another instance we are reaching out in the 8 minds of many which we have to respect, to the 9 taking of a life, that analogy just falls flat. 10 It just doesn't relate. It doesn't compute. 11 It's just wrong. 12 Now, Senator Gold, when he spoke 13 against this bill, said he hoped that, as an 14 intellectual exercise, he hoped it would go away 15 intellectually, and I would like to suggest to 16 him that both sides of this issue, I think, 17 approach it as an intellectual exercise, those 18 for and those against. It's an issue that 19 challenges one's intellect, no matter how far 20 you fall, one side of the coin or the other, and 21 so it's an issue that should not go away in that 22 sense, something that we should continue to deal 23 with as we present opposing views. 4494 1 Earlier this afternoon, this 2 house passed a bill unanimously which I was 3 pleased and honored to co-sponsor along with 4 many of you, a bill that was before us due to 5 the efforts of Senator Gold, mandating 6 instruction in human rights with specific 7 reference to the Holocaust and, as the bill 8 said, the inhumanity of genocide. It was 9 appropriate that we deal with that bill today 10 and I compliment Senator Gold for doing so 11 because today was a day that we remember as 12 D-Day when our forces freed an enslaved 13 continent where genocide and slavery was the 14 order of the day. And so his bill that mandated 15 that our young people be given courses of 16 instruction in this horrible saga of humanity 17 was appropriate. 18 But there are people in this 19 state, people that you and I represent, who 20 consider the taking of a life inhumane, and we 21 must respect that point of view, and while as 22 has been said here several times, the law of the 23 land provides for it, the law of the land does 4495 1 not provide that it be paid for by the taxpayer, 2 and this is where the issue comes before us. 3 Do we continue to be one of a 4 handful of states defying the law of the land, 5 defying the Congress, defying the Supreme Court, 6 who says we need not pay for this and the 7 federal government need not pay for it; or do we 8 strike out on our own saying we know better? 9 So I suggest to you, Mr. 10 President, and to my colleagues that 11 irrespective of how this bill fares in this 12 house and the other house or wherever it goes, 13 it's an issue that we must continue to consider, 14 to agonize over, and I respect fully everything 15 that's been said on both sides of the issue, but 16 it's an issue that we must speak to. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 19 recognizes Senator Connor. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 Once again, we revisit this 23 issue. For many, the issue is abortion, and as 4496 1 others have said, it's a very difficult 2 decision. People have very conscientious 3 viewpoints about exactly what abortion is, and 4 about the relative rights of what's involved 5 there, the women involved, whatever potential is 6 there involved. 7 For me, the issue is one that I 8 certainly spent a lifetime in a tradition that 9 has a moral viewpoint about what abortion is. 10 It's shared by many on both sides of this issue 11 here. I certainly respect what the bishops in 12 my church say in their particular area of 13 competence. However, it's quite clear both 14 under the law of our land and actually under the 15 laws of the church that I have a special 16 competence when it comes to public policy, and 17 this bill deals not with abortion as a moral 18 issue, it deals with the public policy of the 19 state of New York with respect to its Medicaid 20 program. 21 I wouldn't characterize this bill 22 as anti-women. I would go further and specify 23 what it really is. It's anti-poor women, 4497 1 because the law of the land as set down by the 2 Supreme Court says that a woman has the right to 3 choose whether or not to have an abortion, that 4 it's beyond the reach of the laws of the state, 5 that it's beyond -- forget the reach, that it's 6 none of our business. 7 We live in a land where there is 8 no consensus on abortion. There are 9 conscientious viewpoints on different sides of 10 the issue, and there are different conscientious 11 viewpoints as certainly as there are shades of 12 the issue, but it's clear abortion is legal in 13 America. Women have the right to choose. 14 What would this bill do? Well, 15 the proponents say, Well, but we are allowed to 16 say taxpayers' funds shouldn't be used for 17 abortion. Is that what this bill is saying? Not 18 quite. Not quite. It's saying taxpayers' 19 funds, state funds in New York State, shouldn't 20 be used to pay for abortions of poor women. 21 Why? This deals only with 22 Medicaid abortions. Our own families, our own 23 staffs, who have health benefits provided by the 4498 1 state of New York, it includes abortion. Now, 2 how, my colleagues, is this not pure and simple 3 stripping away the issue of abortion which isn't 4 really what the issue is here, stripping away 5 all that we hear? Doesn't this really come down 6 to economic discrimination? It's only poor women 7 who are otherwise eligible for assistance with 8 their medical care, only those poor women for 9 whom we would deny abortions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Connor, please excuse the interruption. Senator 12 Present has risen. 13 Senator Present, why do you 14 rise? 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 sorry to interrupt. Mr. President, can I have 17 the last section of this bill read so that 18 Senator Hannon can vote? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4499 1 roll. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 3 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Hannon will be recorded in the affirmative. The 6 roll call is withdrawn. 7 Sorry to interrupt, Senator 8 Connor. Senator Connor on the bill. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: But we don't 10 object to middle class women and upper middle 11 class women and wealthy women who may be covered 12 by health insurance that the state pays for in 13 part, provides for them, negotiates for them. 14 We're not talking about stopping them from being 15 reimbursed for the cost of an abortion. 16 Mr. President, to me this is pure 17 and simple economic discrimination. It's not 18 about abortion. We can't deal with that. It's 19 about poor women in New York State. It's about 20 people taking their quite legitimate moral 21 viewpoint about abortions, legitimate in the 22 sense that they're certainly entitled to have 23 that conscientious viewpoint and loading it on 4500 1 poor women, not all women, not state employees, 2 but only poor women and that's why, Mr. 3 President, as a matter of public policy, this 4 bill is, I believe, atrocious. It may be a 5 vehicle for some people to ventilate their views 6 about abortion, but the fact of the matter is 7 that's not what it's about. 8 I would oppose this as I would 9 oppose any other attempt to distinguish on an 10 economic basis between the benefits that the 11 state of New York would apply in any area. 12 I intend to vote no once again. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Waldon is the last member on the speaking list. 15 I don't see him. Oh, excuse me. He's sitting 16 down here. 17 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 19 much, Mr. President. I'll be brief. 20 I had no intention of speaking on 21 this issue, and I don't rise to defend what 22 Senator Montgomery said. However, in response 23 to some of the statements made opposed to her 4501 1 statement I would like to share these thoughts. 2 There's a basic philosophical 3 difference between this side of our chamber and 4 to a great extent that side of the chamber, and 5 I think that is what is at issue here today: 6 Whether or not the emphasis is on allowing women 7 to make the choice regarding their bodies that 8 they wish or whether or not medical care in 9 other forms will be available to both poor women 10 and poor men, versus a whole host of other 11 concerns. 12 I'm not making a judgment as to 13 what is right, what is wrong, but I think when 14 we pit against each other, prison cells versus 15 prenatal and postnatal care, prison cells versus 16 education in a meaningful sense for the poor 17 blacks and Latinos and other poor folk in the 18 inner city, that, to some extent, is a parallel 19 ism with what Senator Montgomery raised. 20 And so those of us who are here 21 should respect each other enough and understand 22 each other enough that we have these 23 philosophical differences, and I would rather be 4502 1 Diogenes in the night with a candle searching 2 for the truth, if the truth were on the right 3 side of the issue that Senator Montgomery spoke 4 to, versus the other side of the issue. 5 So in closing, I say Senator 6 Montgomery is very capable of defending herself, 7 but this brother formerly of Brooklyn, now 8 Queens, just felt compelled to stand side by 9 side with you because of the elegance of what 10 you said earlier this evening. 11 Thank you very much, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on this 15 bill? If not, the Clerk will read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. There are five Senators who have risen 22 requesting a slow roll call. Clerk will begin 23 the roll call slowly. 4503 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 2 SENATOR BABBUSH: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Connor. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 Senator Cook. 10 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Cook to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR COOK: Not to prolong 14 this unduly, but it seems there's a lack of 15 logic in this approach because, on one hand, we 16 admit that, in our society, that people who can 17 afford it are -- have a constitutional right to 18 choose to have an abortion, and yet in this bill 19 we basically say that, if we have a woman who is 20 on welfare who may become pregnant and decides 21 that she would be wishing to attend school or 22 get a part-time job or try to find her way off 23 the welfare rolls, we say, No, you can't do it. 4504 1 You got to go and continue this pregnancy until 2 term. Her sister, who is in the affluent area, 3 says, Well, yeah, I'll go have the abortion 4 because I want to continue whatever course of 5 action I'm doing. I'm going to college, I'm 6 doctoring, I'm changing professions, no 7 problem. But the woman who's really trying to 8 pull herself up by the boot straps and support a 9 family at the same time is the one who really 10 gets injured by this. 11 Seems as though it's contrary to 12 everything that we really want people to do and, 13 therefore, I'm voting against the bill. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook in 15 the negative. 16 The Clerk will continue the 17 roll. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 19 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 DeFrancisco. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 4505 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 4 President, just to explain my vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Dollinger to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Very 8 briefly. I appreciate the comments of my other 9 colleagues who have talked about the inequity 10 that this would enshrine in New York law between 11 the rights of poor women and women of means, but 12 I'd just point out one other fact to my 13 colleagues. 14 I think there's a difference 15 between what we're constitutionally obligated to 16 do and what we choose to do as the right policy 17 for the people of this state, and it seems to me 18 to stand and say we're not constitutionally 19 obligated to fund abortions for women, poor 20 women, absolutely misguides the entire debate. 21 The issue is, what's the fair 22 policy for the people of this state. It seems 23 to me it's very simple. On the issue of choice 4506 1 and on the issue of women's rights, we choose a 2 policy for the people of this state that is 3 without regard to their economic need. 4 Mr. President, I vote in the 5 negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Dollinger in the negative. 8 The clerk will continue the 9 roll. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Gonzalez. 20 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 22 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon 4507 1 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 2 Senator Hoffmann. 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 9 SENATOR JONES: Explain my vote. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Jones to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR JONES: I've listened 13 very carefully to all the debate and certainly 14 it's a debate that will go on and on for many 15 years to come. The debate is truthfully about 16 abortion, and I see this as something like our 17 back door borrowing. It's just a back door way 18 of dealing with this issue, and I -- I can't - 19 I have a personal life that has included being a 20 mother and raising children. I have grand 21 children and my personal views are my own but, 22 as a public official, I can not impose those 23 views on the rest of the world nor would I want 4508 1 to. 2 I believe it is the right of 3 every woman to make that choice, and I think 4 it's outrageous that we would even consider the 5 fact that for economic status could deny her 6 that right. 7 So I have to vote no on this 8 bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Jones in the negative. 11 Clerk will continue the roll. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Kuhl. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 17 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 Senator LaValle. 21 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Leichter. 4509 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 7 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 11 (Affirmative indication.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 13 Senator Markowitz. 14 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 16 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Montgomery. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Montgomery to explain her vote. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 22 President, I would like to explain my vote very 23 briefly. 4510 1 I'm voting no obviously. I want 2 to emphasize with my no vote that I don't intend 3 to chastise anyone. I have -- Senator Padavan 4 has stated, and I certainly don't want to point 5 any fingers at anyone who is not guilty, and I 6 say again that if we have school-based health 7 clinics that provide a full range of health 8 services including reproductive exams and 9 counseling and access to pregnancy preventive 10 and AIDS preventive measures such as condoms and 11 if we're not embarrassed to say that because of 12 whatever our personal tradition or other 13 inhibitions are, pregnancy will be reduced, 14 unwanted pregnancy in particular. 15 That is where it's -- teen 16 pregnancy is where we have a lot of unwanted 17 pregnancy and ultimately the need for abortion 18 services would be reduced, and ultimately we'd 19 save money for the state on both ends because we 20 can provide a full range of health services, 21 quality health services for young people in 22 their schools for about $150 per student per 23 year. 4511 1 So it is cost-effective. It 2 makes sense, it's morally correct. It saves the 3 lives of young people, it improves the quality 4 of their lives. We just -- we just have to come 5 to grips with the problems that we have, those 6 of us who do have problems, and who want to 7 prevent this kind ever legislation and -- and 8 prevent us from having school-based health 9 clinics in the state of New York. 10 Senator Padavan, I think, has 11 aptly said I should not chastise you. I should 12 just say those who are guilty, please think 13 about it because this is a real contradiction. 14 This is anti-feminist. It's anti-adolescents 15 and I want to make sure that you understand and 16 I do not retract any statement that I made along 17 those lines. 18 I vote no, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative. 21 Continue the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 23 SENATOR NANULA: No. 4512 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 2 SENATOR NOLAN: Yes, Mr. 3 President, to explain my vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Nolan to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR NOLAN: I think that 7 abortion is probably maybe one of the great 8 tragedies that has come upon this country 9 certainly in the last 50 years. 10 I think that, you think about it; 11 you're taking a life no matter how you want to 12 spell it out. It is the taking of life, and I 13 think it's very interesting that in the United 14 States of America, this great land of ours, we 15 have a much, much higher percentage of abortions 16 than any other country in the western world 17 certainly and, in general, probably of any 18 country in the world. 19 I think what it says is that we 20 have become a very permissive society, very 21 permissive society. Yes, there are some trage 22 dies, and so on, in connection with abortion. 23 There's no question the human element, human 4513 1 tragedies, particularly with rape and incest, 2 but the fact of the matter is you're still 3 talking about the taking of life and I think 4 that when you think about it -- and I think it's 5 also kind of tragic, quite frankly, that a lot 6 of people in this chamber are in favor of the 7 death penalty and who are opposed to abortions. 8 That really doesn't make a lot of sense. I 9 think that -- I'm very happy in the 20 years 10 I've been in the Senate to have joined with John 11 -- Senator John Marchi, we're the only two 12 people who have consistently voted against 13 abortion and against the death penalty because 14 in both instances you're talking about life, and 15 I think if you believe in the power of 16 redemption, if you believe in forgiveness, that 17 we are not the Maker and I, for one, I would 18 think a lot of other people in this room would 19 believe that the Man upstairs is the only one 20 that should have the ultimate ability and re 21 sponsibility to make such a decision. 22 I don't think that we, as human 23 beings, should be in a situation where we're 4514 1 going to make a decision whether it's a woman, 2 whether it's a man, whatever, of taking or even 3 if there's a possibility -- now, people can 4 argue and disagree about when life begins, and 5 so on, but if there's one iota of question, it 6 seems to me we have to err on the side of life. 7 For those reasons, I vote yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Nolan in the affirmative. 10 The Clerk will continue the roll. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Nozzolio. 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Ohrenstein. 16 (Negative indication). 17 THE SECRETARY: No. 18 Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: To explain 23 my vote. 4515 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Oppenheimer to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I very much 4 admire and like Senator Nolan, but there's two 5 things I would like to take issue with. One is 6 he unequivocally said "the Man upstairs," and 7 I'm not absolutely sure that it's a man up 8 stairs. Who knows? Might even be a woman up 9 stairs. 10 The second one is I concur with 11 him that our society has become permissive, but 12 I really see that as having no bearing on the 13 issue that we're talking about now. When you 14 say that we have only in the last 50 years seen 15 a rapid growth in the number of abortions, I 16 would say what we have seen in recent years is a 17 sizeable growth in the number of legal abortions 18 taken care of in safe and clean environments 19 which provide for the woman to continue after 20 the abortion to, number one, be alive, number 21 two, be healthy and more than likely be able to 22 go on to other children at a time when she can 23 accept the responsibility of motherhood. 4516 1 We are not here discussing the 2 pros and cons of abortion; that is legal by our 3 law. What we're talking about is the exercise, 4 the equal opportunity to exercise these rights, 5 these very basic rights, to health care and to 6 safe clean abortions, and women really must - 7 must have this available to them because, 8 without it, it is unsafe. It is unclean to have 9 an abortion and poor women -- and we're talking 10 poor women here -- are risking their lives to 11 have those abortions, and it is -- it is not in 12 our tradition to discriminate in such a way 13 because of economic status of women, and New 14 York never has discriminated on this basis, and 15 I certainly hope that New York State never will 16 discriminate. 17 I vote no. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Oppenheimer in the negative. 20 The Clerk will continue the 21 roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 4517 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 2 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 9 SENATOR RATH: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Santiago. 14 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 16 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4518 1 Smith to explain her vote. 2 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, 3 I'm compelled to rise, not to explain my vote 4 because I feel that common sense dictates that I 5 vote in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Smith in the negative. 8 The Clerk will continue the 9 roll. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 13 SENATOR SPANO: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Stachowski. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Stafford. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky 21 excused. 22 Senator Trunzo. 23 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 4519 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 2 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker 6 excused. 7 Senator Waldon. 8 (Negative indication. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: No. 10 Senator Wright. 11 SENATOR WRIGHT: No. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 13 will call the absentees. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 17 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 19 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Paterson. 4520 1 (There was no response. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 3 will announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31, nays 5 27. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 can we continue with the controversial calendar? 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1053, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 2993, 13 an act to amend the Education Law, in relation 14 to student awards and assistance. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Explanation has been asked for. 18 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, this 19 is not a very complicated bill. Basically, it 20 says or states that, if a young man refuses to 21 register for Selective Service, he will not be 22 eligible for tuition aid. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4521 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: As I'm sure the 4 members will recall, this is a bill that we have 5 had before, and Senator Espada and Galiber and 6 myself and Gonzalez and Markowitz and Mendez, 7 Ohrenstein, Smith had voted in the negative and 8 the Civil Liberties Union has filed against, and 9 basically, without reviewing the entire debate, 10 it just really is an apples and oranges bill. 11 Students are students, and if 12 they need aid, they need aid, and this Selective 13 Service system is a federal system which should 14 be complied with, and there are ample laws in 15 this country to make sure that the youngsters 16 comply with that law. 17 That has nothing to do with the 18 educational system, and we should keep it 19 separate in the opinion of some of us, and I 20 believe that to have the state of New York get 21 into the business of enforcing federal laws 22 which do not have anything to do with the 23 subject matter that we're talking about, is the 4522 1 kind of logic that I don't understand. 2 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 4 Senator Daly. 5 SENATOR DALY: On the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Daly, on the bill. 8 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 9 do disagree with my colleague from Queens that 10 this is apples and oranges. 11 I think the thrust of this bill 12 is to demonstrate that, if you walk away from 13 your responsibility to the state and the nation, 14 you're going to walk away from some of the 15 benefits also. 16 To turn one's back and ignore 17 such an action, an irresponsible action where 18 you literally say and -- "Not me. Let somebody 19 else do it." What if no one comes, Mr. 20 President? This is coincidental, but today we 21 celebrated the 50th anniversary of D-Day. 22 I would submit to you, Mr. 23 President, that most of those men and women who 4523 1 died in that operation, or the men anyway, were 2 drafted, had to register. What's the purpose of 3 this bill? What's the purpose of Selective 4 Service? Literally, it is to provide our 5 country with a list of names of people who can 6 serve, young men, in case -- in case there is a 7 threat to our nation, in case our nation is in 8 peril, and certainly, if you would accept the 9 benefits, and the bounty and the freedom of this 10 great nation, then you have the responsibility 11 of accepting -- I should say you must accept the 12 concomitant responsibility. Serving our nation, 13 protecting it, keeping it free, as we've done so 14 successfully over the last 200 years, certainly 15 is an important responsibility. 16 And I submit to you, Mr. Presid 17 dent, that to walk away from that responsibility 18 and, very frankly, to me indicates a very 19 selfish, a selfish and arrogant attitude, 20 irresponsible attitude that we can't accept, and 21 I don't want to ignore that. We know we have 22 not had a draft in this nation for the last 20 23 years, thank goodness, and perhaps we will never 4524 1 -- I hope we never need a draft. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Daly, excuse me. Senator Mendez, why do you 4 rise? 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Would the 6 Senator yield for just one question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Daly, would you yield to Senator Mendez? 9 SENATOR DALY: I would be happy 10 to, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator yields, Senator Mendez. 13 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 14 Thank you. 15 Senator Daly, tell me, is our 16 Selective Service a volunteer kind of a 17 program? Is the law of the land that the Army 18 can go into -- to become a member of any one of 19 the forces, you do so voluntarily? 20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, 21 there is no draft, and our -- our armed forces, 22 as we know now is voluntary. It's made up of 23 people who voluntarily apply or enter the armed 4525 1 forces but, Mr. President, I submit, that's not 2 the purpose of this bill. 3 The purpose of the bill is to 4 provide a list of everyone who can serve in case 5 our nation is ever in peril for one reason or 6 another, where mobilization has to occur, and 7 what is fair and just about some people walking 8 away from that very important responsibility and 9 saying, "I'm not going to do it. Let someone 10 else do it." Can you imagine, Mr. President, 11 what would happen if the men -- the men that we 12 honor today had done that 50 years ago? We did 13 not have -- when our nation was put in peril on 14 December 7th, 1941 -- I submit to you, Mr. 15 President, that back in 1925, no one would ever 16 -- no one ever thought it would happen again. 17 The purpose of this -- of mobilization, of the 18 Selective Service, is to provide us with the 19 names of the young men who can serve in such a 20 situation. 21 And I submit, Mr. President, it's 22 the responsibility of every young man to put his 23 name on that list so that, God forbid, it should 4526 1 ever occur that all -- all will be called, not 2 just a few. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 4 will read the last section. 5 Senator Mendez, you're asking 6 Senator Daly to yield again? 7 Senator Daly, do you yield? 8 Senator Daly, do you yield? 9 SENATOR DALY: Yes, I yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Daly yields, Senator Mendez. 12 SENATOR MENDEZ: I just wanted to 13 mention the following, Mr. President, that I 14 understand the frustration that Senator Daly 15 feels. I was watching throughout the weekend as 16 well. I was watching as well, you know, TV and 17 seeing how many lives of American -- young 18 American soldiers were lost in that terrible 19 war, so I understand his frustration. 20 On the other hand, with respect 21 to his bill, the point that I want to make is 22 the following: At the time of the Second World 23 War, the nation was in danger and young men and 4527 1 women had to -- it was no longer a volunteer - 2 voluntary service, such as the armed forces. I 3 don't think that we as a state should penalize 4 those men or women who choose not even to 5 register. I don't think that we should penalize 6 them because after all, our country is a 7 democracy. They are not breaking any laws, and 8 the big difference between being ruled by a 9 military junta versus our democracy is precisely 10 that citizens have -- as far as do not break the 11 law, they have a leeway to -- in terms of 12 behavior, so I understand his frustrations. 13 On the other hand, I don't think 14 that we should penalize those that choose not to 15 register to serve in the forces. 16 Thank you. 17 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Daly, on the bill. 20 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President - 21 yes, please. 22 I see nothing wrong with the 23 state of New York or the people of New York 4528 1 saying this is unacceptable, and our way of 2 saying it is saying if you do it -- if you do 3 not register, if you choose to avoid -- ignore 4 that important responsibility, then we're going 5 to punish you. We're going to deprive you of 6 monies which you would get to assist yourself 7 through college which would help you make - 8 increase your income, give you a better life. 9 To accept this -- this misguided 10 and selfish attitude, as far as I'm concerned, 11 is tantamount to accepting, even approving it. 12 Mr. President, let me repeat. 13 All we expect of the young men -- not the young 14 women, the young men -- is to register for 15 Selective Service so that their name is put on 16 the list. 17 As I said before, we don't have 18 mobilization right now, thank goodness, but if 19 something should occur where mobilization is 20 required, then everybody has the responsibility 21 of serving. No one should ignore that responsi 22 bility by refusing to simply put his name on the 23 list. 4529 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 3 Galiber. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Would the 5 Senator yield for a question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Daly, do you yield to Senator Galiber? 8 SENATOR DALY: I should have quit 9 when I was ahead, Mr. President, but I will. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You'll 11 learn. Senator Daly yields. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, 13 Senator Present came over and reminded me of 14 something. 15 SENATOR DALY: I'm sorry. Mr. 16 President, I can't hear the Senator. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm sorry. Can 18 you turn this up? Can you hear me now, 19 Senator? 20 SENATOR DALY: Yes, I can. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: I wasn't going 22 to speak on this, Senator, on a serious note. 23 Senator Present came over and 4530 1 reminded me of the old days as we celebrate 2 D-Day, and I was a part of it. Most of us who 3 were really part of it had nothing to say about 4 it, we just wanted to spend this time re 5 membering, and in the course of remembering, 6 Senator, I want you to know, back in those days 7 when they had a draft, it was a draft which was 8 structured for those persons who did not have 9 very much. Those who were exempt, the very ones 10 you're talking about, the persons who did not 11 participate in World War II by and large, when 12 it was mandated, when it was a draft, were the 13 persons who were rich persons, who had an 14 opportunity to go to school, who were exempt 15 from the draft because they were going to school 16 and -- this very same category that you make 17 reference to. 18 Senator, what we're suggesting, 19 those of us who vote no, it seems to me that 20 there should not be a condition precedent to 21 helping people be educated in this great country 22 of ours, but the bottom line is, Senator, when 23 the real rough times come, there's a built-in 4531 1 exemption just as in World War II. Look to the 2 books. Most of the persons who stayed out of 3 the war who did not want to go, a lot of them 4 tried to volunteer -- none of my colleagues 5 tried to volunteer, some did, but the fact of 6 the matter is that your piece of legislation 7 which excludes women, by the way -- I'll take 8 that issue up some other time -- you're making 9 it a condition precedent to getting some help to 10 educate some youngsters, young adults, as a 11 condition -- I even question whether it's 12 constitutional or not. 13 We had another subject matter the 14 other day on that issue, but I was reminded -- I 15 just wanted to bring it to your attention, 16 Senator -- that as we celebrate the day, to keep 17 in mind the very persons that you're asking now 18 for some help were those who used their -- not 19 their exemption, status to stay out of that 20 fight. 21 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, if 22 I can just point out to the Senator, first of 23 all - 4532 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Daly, on the bill. 3 SENATOR DALY: -- two wrongs do 4 not make a right, and certainly I can go back in 5 my own ancestry and find certain riots in New 6 York City back during the Civil War when certain 7 people were favored. I'm not finished, Senator. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Galiber, are you asking Senator Daly to yield? 10 SENATOR DALY: I'm not finished, 11 Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Daly refuses to yield. 14 SENATOR DALY: I would submit 15 also -- I admit -- I would yield to the Senator 16 in a moment, but let me finish my thought. I 17 have trouble keeping it for too long a period of 18 time. 19 We must remember also that 20 registering does not preclude someone saying, 21 I'm a conscientious objector if called. It does 22 not. If someone is a conscientious objector, 23 and I understand that, then at the time of 4533 1 mobilization the person can say, "I cannot 2 serve" because of such and such a reason or 3 someone cannot physically serve, then, of 4 course, he will not go into the armed services. 5 But simply, Mr. President, what 6 we're saying is unfair and unjust to accept - 7 to accept the fact that some people can ignore a 8 very hairy responsibility while others must and 9 will accept it. 10 And secondly, may I say, Mr. 11 President, again, I understand where my 12 colleagues are coming from when they compare it 13 to apples and oranges, though I disagree. I'm 14 saying basically, this legislation is New York 15 State saying to young men who do avoid that 16 responsibility that "We know what you're doing. 17 We do not accept it. We feel you're doing 18 wrong, and this is what we feel -- how we feel 19 you should be punished." 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Galiber. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, I asked 23 you to yield. Would you yield for a question 4534 1 now, Senator? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Daly yields now? The Senator yields. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: When I 5 mentioned the conflict that I participated in, 6 you didn't think I was talking about the Civil 7 War, do you? 8 SENATOR DALY: No, Mr. 9 President. No, Mr. President, I was not. I was 10 there, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 12 you, Senator Daly. 13 Read the last section. 14 SENATOR DALY: I was there, and I 15 didn't see you, Joe. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 18 Senator Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 20 I'm sorry that we were just going to let this go 21 because we debated it in other years, but 22 Senator Daly's strong and passionate defense of 23 this bill -- I'm sorry, I just can't let this - 4535 1 this one question go, Senator. 2 We've done it in other years, but 3 it's always bothered me about your bill. I 4 understand you want to help the federal 5 government. They didn't ask us for help but you 6 want to make sure that people register, and so 7 on, for the draft. You point out, if we should 8 face the situation as we did 50 years ago, where 9 would the personnel be to fight that war? 10 Federal government isn't worried about it. They 11 didn't ask us but, all right, this is your 12 concern. But, Senator, to fight that war, we 13 also need, obviously, guns and tanks and all the 14 things that go with it, which means that people 15 have to pay their taxes. It isn't just an 16 obligation of citizenship. Never understood 17 why, since you volunteered to help the federal 18 government -- we're going to help to see that 19 people obey the laws that are set by Congress 20 that apply to all people of the states -- why 21 something as important as paying taxes, why 22 don't you provide similarly, that unless you 23 have established that you have paid, filed and 4536 1 paid your federal taxes -- throw in state taxes 2 too, if you will -- that you're not eligible for 3 aid? I've never understood that, Senator. 4 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 5 have no problem with that. If you want to put 6 the bill in, fine. 7 What this bill is aimed at is to 8 demonstrate to those young men who walk away 9 from that responsibility, that the state is 10 unhappy with it, does not accept it, and this is 11 our way of saying, "Hey, we know what you're 12 doing. We don't like it. We think you're 13 wrong. Very frankly, if you're going to walk 14 away from a responsibility such as that, then 15 maybe you should be deprived of some of the 16 benefits that you receive from the state." It's 17 very simple, a message. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, but I'm 22 just invigorated by the intellect that my 23 colleague, Senator Leichter's level of intellect 4537 1 never ceases to amaze me. 2 Would Senator Daly yield to a 3 question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Daly, would you yield to Senator Gold? 6 SENATOR DALY: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Daly yields. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Can you tell me, 11 Senator Daly, what year or around what time was 12 the last American called up for the draft in the 13 draft? 14 SENATOR DALY: I think it was 15 around 20 years ago. 16 SENATOR GOLD: About 20 years 17 ago? 18 SENATOR DALY: Yeah. 19 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 20 Senator, can I ask you the last date upon which 21 -- upon which some student in the state of New 22 York accepted TAP aid but didn't pay state 23 income tax? 4538 1 SENATOR DALY: I can't give you a 2 date. I think that's a rhetorical question, is 3 it not? 4 SENATOR GOLD: No, senator. I'll 5 withdraw the question. 6 Mr. President, on the bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold, on the bill. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Senator, the 10 funny part of this -- and I think Senator 11 Leichter really put it out there. We're talking 12 about penalizing someone who may not register in 13 a system which has been inactive for 20 years 14 and with atomic energy and everything else 15 today, probably is meaningless, but if you 16 really wanted to do something, your bill doesn't 17 even touch those students who may not be paying, 18 forget the federal government, state income 19 taxes. 20 Senator, state income taxes, 21 that's getting the money that we're supposed to 22 be getting to fund this government and make the 23 state work, and that, you're not interested in. 4539 1 All we're interested in is penalizing somebody, 2 if we can find them, who may not have registered 3 in a system that we don't use for 20 years. 4 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President, I 5 only add that the red herrings are swimming 6 upstream, and I submit that this is good 7 legislation, and I move its adoption. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 12 shall have become law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1053 are 18 Senators Babbush, Connor, Espada, Galiber, Gold, 19 Gonzalez, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, 20 Ohrenstein, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 46, nays 21 12. Also, Senator Paterson recorded in the 22 negative. Ayes 45, nays 13. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4540 1 is passed. 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 I was out of the chamber and was unable to 5 respond to the slow roll call vote on Senate 6 7153 which is Calendar 1145. I would just like 7 the record to reflect that, had I been in the 8 chamber, I would have voted in the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 calendar will reflect that Senator Paterson, had 11 he been in the chamber, would have voted in the 12 negative on Calendar Number 1145. 13 Senator Montgomery. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Senator 15 -- Mr. President. I would like to be recorded 16 in the negative on the bill that we just passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, so ordered. 19 Senator Hoffmann. 20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President, 21 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 1140, 1141, 1142 23 and 1143. 4541 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, so ordered. 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 6 will continue to call the controversial 7 calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1093, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 2547, 10 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 11 safety and health standards for public 12 employees. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Cook, an explanation has been asked for by 16 Senator Gold. 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, all 18 of us, from time to time, at least many of us, 19 from time to time, criticize various state 20 agencies for the fact that once we pass a law, 21 they write regulations that go far afield from 22 what the legislative intent of what the law was, 23 but what we have here is something entirely 4542 1 different because we never passed a law. 2 What happened was the federal 3 government passed a law that said that there 4 would be certain regulations, OSHA regulations 5 that would apply to public employees. At some 6 point in time, the state industrial commissioner 7 decided that he would like to have that apply to 8 volunteers, and so he simply put out a regu 9 lation that said volunteers are not covered 10 under the similar regulations as public 11 employees. I don't know who pays these 12 volunteers. I don't know what payroll they're 13 on, what the -- who they report to, who's their 14 public employer that they supposedly are working 15 for. I don't know by what right, frankly, the 16 industrial commissioner decided to make that 17 decision, but it's clear in my mind that there 18 never was any legislative authority for him to 19 do this. 20 The fact is that these volunteers 21 have now had placed upon them a very, very 22 severe financial burden, a burden which in some 23 cases is actually threatening to close down 4543 1 vital volunteer services in many of our smaller 2 communities, and I think that the common sense 3 thing to do is to recognize what they are is 4 volunteers, volunteers who work very hard at 5 making sure that the conditions under which they 6 labor are safe, who work very hard to be trained 7 but who, frankly, cannot comply with all of the 8 paperwork and all of the details of OSHA 9 regulations. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Connor. 13 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 I understand some of the problems 16 that Senator Cook outlined, but I think his bill 17 goes in the wrong direction. I think the state 18 ought to take actions to facilitate, whether it 19 costs money, whether it requires an office 20 providing technical assistance to these 21 volunteer fire companies. I think we have an 22 obligation to facilitate their compliance. The 23 ruling that they're employees has consequences 4544 1 in terms of eligibility for Workers' Com 2 pensation, compliance with safety rules and, you 3 know, I didn't grow up in the city. 4 In fact, I'm privileged to have a 5 grandfather who's 104 and been a member of his 6 volunteer fire company for the last 79 years. 7 He doesn't go to fires anymore. He hasn't in 8 many years, but he's listed on the rolls as the 9 -- clearly the senior member, and I grew up in 10 my family, all of our great family passages, 11 weddings, whatever, were at the firehouse, so I 12 understand. In fact, just a week -- two weeks 13 ago, a week and a half ago, I attended the 14 funeral for my grandmother who was the senior 15 volunteer fire ladies auxiliary member in the 16 entire state of New Jersey at the time, so I 17 understand the risks volunteers take. 18 I think we ought to do something 19 to -- you know, they take the same risk any 20 other firefighter takes and to say, "Well, 21 they'll be careful but they can't comply with 22 OSHA", that's not good enough for me. Why don't 23 we, the state of New York -- we're voting - 4545 1 what are we doing now? We're in the midst of 2 voting billions of dollars on a budget, and I 3 appreciate what the volunteer fire companies do 4 and what they do for the localities and the tax 5 burden they relieve from the localities were 6 they to have to pay for drivers or whatever to 7 facilitate the fire safety in their areas. 8 The fact of the matter is we're 9 going in the wrong direction. We ought to be 10 paying attention to this. What would it take to 11 help these companies comply, because I think 12 volunteer firefighters should have the same 13 protection that any firefighter does when they 14 take the same risk, and I'm not alone in this 15 opinion. 16 The Professional Firefighters 17 Association which doesn't represent the 18 volunteers has issued a memo opposing this bill 19 because they point out, these people take - 20 these men and women in the volunteer companies 21 take the same risks as the professional 22 firefighters and under mutual aid compacts, in 23 fact, often work side by side with professional 4546 1 firefighters in major conflagrations so -- state 2 AFL-CIO is also opposed to this for similar 3 reasons. It's a step backward. Let's meet our 4 responsibility and let's help these volunteer 5 fire companies comply with the OSHA rules. If 6 it costs money, let's find them the money. If 7 it's beyond their administrative capabilities, 8 let's set up some sort of system to do the 9 administration for them to help the paperwork, 10 but I just think this bill is saying, "Well, 11 they can't do it, let's walk away," doesn't 12 really protect them and doesn't give them the 13 respect that they deserve, and I appreciate that 14 many of these volunteer fire, you know, 15 personnel, you know, they're from the wild west, 16 they take their chances, but I think we have an 17 obligation when one of them is injured, for 18 example, to see that they are covered by some 19 Workers' Compensation. I think we have an 20 obligation to help prevent injuries in their 21 undertaking. 22 So I'm going to oppose this bill 23 and, Senator Cook, it's not because I don't 4547 1 recognize there's a problem with compliance. I 2 just think -- and I would be happy to support 3 any measure you bring up -- that we ought to do 4 whatever we can to help them comply. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 Senator Connor, before you leave 10 -- Senator Connor, I am a little disappointed 11 because you have one line which I really love 12 and that's lecturing about how most people from 13 downstate are under the misapprehension that 14 volunteer fire departments are put together to 15 fight fires and -- but I think that helps make 16 the argument, and I will be very brief because 17 Senator Connor was kind enough to refer to the 18 memos in opposition from Labor, but there was a 19 story here, and it's a June 2, 1994 story in the 20 Albany Times Union about "Smoke Toxic Gas 21 Sickens Six Workers", and these were not 22 volunteer firefighters but they were workers, 23 and the bottom line is that while we talk about 4548 1 our police department is the finest, New York's 2 finest in New York City, the fact is that 3 firefighting is serious, difficult work, and 4 while I admire people, particularly people 5 throughout the state in smaller areas who join 6 these volunteer fire companies, there is a lot 7 involved in it, and a lot of it is social and a 8 lot of it is comaraderie, et cetera, but 9 fighting fires is serious business, and I 10 believe that these people must be protected. I 11 think the ruling of the federal government was 12 right, and I think it would be a mistake to take 13 them out of those protections. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Cook. 16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, a 17 couple statements have been made, I think ought 18 to be clarified. 19 In the first place, this bill 20 will have absolutely no impact at all on the 21 eligibility for compensation coverage. That's 22 covered under the Volunteer Firemen's Benefit 23 Law, totally apart and aside from this. It was 4549 1 there long before OSHA requirements came along, 2 and it is not something that we really even 3 ought to have in this discussion. 4 I am not at all surprised, quite 5 frankly, that the unions are opposed to this 6 bill, because the unions are paid fire 7 departments, and if they had their preference, 8 and I don't fault them for this, they'd like to 9 have everybody in the state have paid fire 10 departments, because that would give them more 11 members, make more money coming into the union 12 treasury. Why not? That certainly is something 13 that they would be supportive of, but the fact 14 is that it's impractical. 15 In the county that I reside in or 16 the counties that I represent, deal, in all 17 probability, with 40,000 people, have one fire 18 department in a county that's 75 miles long. In 19 practical terms, that's the only thing you can 20 afford if you had a paid fire department. These 21 people are not paid departments. They are 22 volunteers. They are volunteers in a tradition 23 that goes back as far as Benjamin Franklin. 4550 1 There are people who, indeed, do want training 2 and, in fact, put a lot of time into training. 3 There are people whose communities put a great 4 amount of resources into providing the kind of 5 protection that they and their neighbors want, 6 but the fact is that if OSHA continues the way 7 it has been going, that these fire departments 8 are going to be put out of business increasingly 9 and, indeed, we probably will be pushed toward 10 the point where they have countywide fire 11 departments that the coverage, the time - 12 response time to get from the point of the 13 central fire station is going to be counted in 14 hours rather than minutes, and it simply is 15 going to destroy the kind of protection that we 16 have gotten accustomed to. 17 Mr. President, this is not 18 something the fire districts are asking for. 19 This is not something that the taxpayer groups 20 are asking for. This is something the volunteer 21 fire personnel themselves are asking for because 22 they want to continue to do their job and they 23 know, if these regulations continue, that 4551 1 they're going to be out of business. So it is 2 in behalf of the volunteer fire personnel that 3 I'm speaking, and for that reason, I ask that 4 this bill be approved. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Stachowski. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I would just 8 like to rise to join in support of Senator 9 Cook's measure. As someone who represents a lot 10 of volunteer fire companies, I'm aware that this 11 is a priority bill of FASNY's. This is a 12 priority of all of the volunteer fire companies 13 that I represent, and I would like to add in 14 response mainly to my good friend, Senator 15 Gold's comments, that much more than a social 16 organization, these volunteer fire companies are 17 made up of dedicated, well trained individuals 18 that take all -- they take all the training 19 necessary when they first come on. They're 20 constantly taking and updating their skills. 21 Many of them taking courses in specialty areas 22 like haz-mat units. 23 In western New York, the best 4552 1 haz-mat team we have in western New York isn't 2 made up of paid firefighters, it's made up of 3 volunteer firefighters from 35 different fire 4 companies, many of whom live in my district, and 5 they take all their courses on their time. 6 They're very well trained. They're very 7 dedicated, and interestingly enough -- and 8 Senator Cook mentioned the part about they're 9 covered for Workmen's Comp' which is obvious, 10 and they all try to update their equipment as 11 often as possible. 12 But the thing I find most 13 interesting is that they're considered -- must 14 be considered such skilled firefighters that 15 that's probably the reason that many of our 16 cities complain about the fact that their 17 firefighters live outside the city and, in fact, 18 in Buffalo, the president of the Buffalo 19 Firefighters Union lives in one of the suburbs 20 protected by volunteer firefighters. I'm sure 21 he's not the only member of that particular 22 union and those particular paid firefighters who 23 happen to live outside in a town or a village 4553 1 protected by volunteer firefighters, and for 2 those reasons and the fact that the FASNY people 3 who worry very much about their members and all 4 the volunteer companies that I represent who are 5 always concerned with their people are pushing 6 for this so hard, and for that reason, I'm 7 supporting this bill in joining with Senator 8 Cook. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may 21 explain my vote. I'm troubled by the logic of 22 this bill. I accept what Senator Cook says and 23 Senator Stachowski, how wonderful the people are 4554 1 who volunteer and dedicate themselves in joining 2 these volunteer fire companies, but what are the 3 purpose of the OSHA requirements? They're 4 health and safety of people, so we say we love 5 you people so much, we're going to take away the 6 protection for your welfare, your health, and 7 your safety, and while I can understand some of 8 these fire companies are burdened by this, the 9 requirements that go with being under OSHA, I 10 think there are answers to it. 11 I can also understand that the 12 fire companies say, "Oh, we don't need it", and 13 so on, but we've seen -- we've heard and we've 14 seen other instances where workers and employers 15 say "We don't need OSHA. We know how to be 16 safe." The fact is we ought to protect these 17 people. We're talking about the safety of 18 people who do a wonderful job. Why wouldn't you 19 want to give them this protection? 20 Mr. President, I vote in the 21 negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter in the negative. Announce the results. 4555 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2 the negative on Calendar Number 1093 are 3 Senators Connor, Espada, Gold, Leichter, Nanula, 4 Ohrenstein, Onorato and Solomon. Ayes 50, nays 5 8. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Also, Senator 9 Galiber recorded in the negative. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: I wasn't in my 11 seat. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. The Clerk will continue - 14 Senator Nanula. 15 SENATOR NANULA: I would like 16 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 17 for Senate Bill -- or Calendar Number 1053, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, Senator Nanula will be recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 1053. 22 The Clerk will continue to read 23 the controversial calendar. 4556 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1127, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 3 7719, Real Property Tax Law. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 5 second. Senator Leichter says read the last 6 section. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1135, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8519, 19 an act to require the New York State Teachers 20 Retirement System to accept a retirement 21 application. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Gold. 4557 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will 2 Senator Rath yield to a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Rath, do you yield to Senator Gold? The Senator 5 yields. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, last year 7 we passed legislation under the leadership of 8 Senator Trunzo and many of us were very 9 concerned about that. Why do we have to pass 10 the law? Why can't the individual involved in 11 this case file with the newly created procedure 12 and get a ruling and have that done adminis 13 tratively? 14 SENATOR RATH: The Comptroller 15 has indicated that we cannot do this because it 16 was an early retirement incentive, and there is 17 no administrative remedy for the circumstance 18 that this particular individual finds himself 19 in. This is probably the only specific case of 20 this in the state of New York because of the - 21 the issue that related to the return receipt 22 requested. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 4558 1 yield to one more question? 2 SENATOR RATH: Surely. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR GOLD: My Comptroller 6 said that? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 8 last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Rath. 18 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr. 19 President. On behalf of Senator Skelos, I would 20 like to call up Bill Number 29-B recalled from 21 the Assembly which is now at the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 23 will call the roll on reconsideration. 4559 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 29-B, an act to amend 3 the Penal Law. 4 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 5 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 6 bill was passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 8 will call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 12 SENATOR RATH: I understand there 13 are amendments at the desk. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 15 are. The amendments are received and the bill 16 will be placed on the Third Reading Calendar. 17 Senator Rath. 18 SENATOR RATH: I offer the 19 following amendments. Oh, Senator, pardon me. 20 I have another bill on behalf of Senator 21 Libous. Am I in order or not? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're in 23 order, Senator Rath. 4560 1 SENATOR RATH: Okay. I wasn't 2 exactly sure as these landed here. Okay. This 3 is on behalf of Senator Libous calling up his 4 bill, 5056 recalled from the Assembly which is 5 now at the desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 7 will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 9 Libous, Senate Bill Number 5056, an act to amend 10 the Tax Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Rath. 13 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 14 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 15 bill was passed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 17 will call the roll on reconsideration. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Rath. 23 SENATOR RATH: I understand there 4561 1 are amendments at the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 are. 4 SENATOR RATH: I offer the 5 following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 amendments are received and adopted. 8 SENATOR RATH: Okay. I would 9 like to have a sponsor's star put on my bill, 10 Calendar Number 899, Print 8001. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 12 star will be placed on -- or a sponsor's star 13 will be placed on Calendar Number 899. 14 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Daly. 17 SENATOR DALY: I move to amend 18 the following: Calendar Number 708, Bill Number 19 7477, and ask that it hold -- it maintain its 20 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 amendments are received and adopted. 23 Senator Trunzo. 4562 1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President, I 2 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 7694-A 3 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 4 desk. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 7694-A, an act to 7 amend the Civil Service Law and the Military 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Trunzo. 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: I now move to 12 reconsider the vote by which this bill passed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 14 will call the roll on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Trunzo. 20 SENATOR TRUNZO: I now offer the 21 following amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 amendments are received and adopted. 4563 1 Senator Present, I believe that 2 completes the housekeeping. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Good. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: On behalf of 8 Senator Mendez, I announce a Democratic 9 Conference for 10:30 tomorrow morning. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On behalf 11 of Senator Mendez, there will be a Senate 12 Minority Conference in the Minority Conference 13 Room tomorrow, 10:30 a.m. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 on behalf of Senator Levy, I announce a 18 conference of the Majority tomorrow at 10:30 19 a.m. in Room 332. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 21 will be a conference of the Majority tomorrow 22 morning, 10:30 a.m. in the Majority Conference 23 Room, Room 332. 4564 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there being no further business, I move that we 4 adjourn until tomorrow at 12:00 noon. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 6 motion, Senator Present, without objection, the 7 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow at 12:00 8 noon. 9 (Whereupon, at 7:09 p.m., the 10 Senate adjourned.) 11 12 13 14