Tuesday, June 7, 1994

4565 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ALBANY, NEW YORK 11 June 7, 1994 12 2:20 p.m. 13 14 15 REGULAR SESSION 16 17 18 19 20 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 21 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 22 23 4566 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Members take their 4 seats. Ask the members of the gallery to rise 5 and join us in saying the Pledge of Allegiance 6 to the American Flag. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 In the absence of clergy, I would 10 ask that we all bow our heads in a moment of 11 silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed.) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Monday, June 6th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 18 designation of the Temporary President. The 19 prayer by Rabbi Murray Grauer of the Hebrew 20 Institute of White Plains, New York. The 21 Journal of Sunday, June 5th, was read and 22 approved. On motion, the Senate adjourned. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 4567 1 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 2 read. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 I would like to call an immediate meeting of the 6 Finance Committee in Room 332 and have the 7 Senate stand at ease awaiting a report of the 8 Finance Committee. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 10 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 11 Finance Committee in Room 332, the Majority 12 Conference Room. The Senate will stand at ease. 13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 14 ease from 2:21 p.m. to 2:50 p.m.) 15 The Senate will come to order. 16 Members please take their seats. Go directly to 17 reports of standing committees. Ask the Clerk 18 to read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 21 following bills directly for third reading: 22 Senate Bill Number 6451-A, by the 23 Senate Committee on Rules, an act making an 4568 1 appropriation for the support of government. 2 Senate Bill Number 8594, by the 3 Committee on Rules, an act to authorize the 4 local government assistance corporation to sell 5 bonds during the state's 1994-95 fiscal year. 6 Senate Bill Number 8595, by the 7 Senate Committee on Rules, an act to establish 8 certain provisions related to the 1994-95 state 9 operations aid to localities. 10 Senate Bill Number 8597, by the 11 Senate Committees on Rules, an act to amend the 12 State Finance Law, in relation to the annual 13 submission of a capital program and financing 14 plan. 15 Senate Bill Number 8598, by the 16 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 17 Legislative Law and State Finance Law. 18 Senate Bill Number 8079, by 19 Senator Tully, an act to amend the Public Health 20 Law, the Executive Law and Chapter 731 of the 21 Laws of 1993 -- excuse me, Senate Bill Number 22 8079-A. 23 Senate Bill Number 6425, Senate 4569 1 budget bill, an act to authorizing the financing 2 of local highway and bridge and rail and 3 aviation programs. 4 Also, Senate Bill Number 8596, by 5 the Senate Committee on Rules, proposing an 6 amendment to the Constitution. All bills 7 reported directly for third reading. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All bills 9 reported directly to third reading. 10 Presentation of petitions. 11 Messages from the Assembly. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of select committees. 14 Communications and reports from 15 state officers. 16 Motions and resolutions. 17 Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 19 wish to call up Senator Volker's bill, Calendar 20 Number 475, Assembly Print 9074-A. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 22 will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Assembly Bill 4570 1 Number 9074-A, an act to incorporate the Twin 2 District Volunteer Firefighter's Benevolent 3 Association. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Farley. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 7 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 8 was substituted for Senator Volker's bill, 9 Senate Print 6416-A and 531. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 11 will call the roll on reconsideration. 12 (The Secretary called the roll on 13 reconsideration.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move that 16 the Assembly Bill 9074-A be recommitted to the 17 Committee on Rules and that Senator Volker's 18 Senate Bill be restored to the order of third 19 reading. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senate bill is recommitted. The Senate bill is 22 restored to third reading. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: Offer the 4571 1 following amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 amendments are received and adopted. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 5 Senator Lack, Mr. President, I move that the 6 following bill be discharged from its respective 7 committee and recommitted with instructions to 8 strike the enacting clause. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is recommitted. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 12 Senator Daly, I wish to amend Senate Bill 8303-A 13 by striking out the amendments made on 6/3 and 14 restoring it to its original print of 8303. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 amendments are received and adopted. 17 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Levy. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Can you star 21 Calendar 607, Senate 71-A? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 23 star is placed on Calendar 607. 4572 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar, 4 copies of which are on our desks. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 question is on the adoption of the Resolution 7 Calendar. All those in favor signify by saying 8 aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The Resolution Calendar is 13 adopted. 14 Senator Present. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stachowski. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: On the 20 Resolution 3921, I would just like to make that 21 one available to any members that would want to 22 go on that. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Anybody 4573 1 who wants to -- what resolution number is that, 2 Senator? 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 3921, 4 honoring Lou Thomas from the steel workers, on 5 the award he's receiving here tomorrow. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any 7 member wishing to be on Senator Stachowski's 8 Resolution 3921 please signify at this time for 9 the desk. 10 Senator Gold, you wish to be on 11 the resolution also? Senator Mendez on the 12 resolution also? 13 Senator Present, we've had such 14 an outpouring of wanting to co-sponsor Senator 15 Stachowski's resolution, would it be in order to 16 put all members on the resolution except for 17 those who don't want to be on? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: I believe it 19 would. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 21 All members will be placed as co-sponsors on the 22 resolution except for those people who would 23 come to the desk and signify that they don't 4574 1 wish to be on the resolution. 2 Senator Mendez, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 4 have a privileged resolution on the desk. I'm 5 requesting that its title to be read and for it 6 to be offered for approval. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 8 a privileged resolution at the desk. Senator 9 Mendez, I'll ask the Clerk to read the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 11 Resolution, by Senators Mendez and LaValle, 12 memorializing Governor Cuomo to proclaim Sunday, 13 June 12th, 1994 as "Touro College Day" in New 14 York State. 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 question is on the resolution. All those in 19 favor signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye".) 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 The resolution is adopted. 4575 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Let me get a 3 message from Mr. Cornell for a minute. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's no 5 need to have any comment on it. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 let's take up the non-controversial calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 9 will read the non-controversial calendar. 10 THE SECRETARY: On page 6 of 11 today's calendar, Calendar Number 348, by member 12 of the Assembly McEneny, Assembly Bill Number 13 9781, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in 14 relation to domestic mutual companies and non 15 assessable policies. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4576 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 478, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 5 5881-B, an act to amend the Family Court Act, 6 the Executive Law and the Criminal Procedure 7 Law. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 for the day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside for the day. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 731, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Bill Number 11599, an act to amend the 15 Banking Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4577 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 780, by Senator Goodman - 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that bill 6 aside for today, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside for the day. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 797, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 11 7495-A, an act to amend the General Business Law 12 and the Penal Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 21 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 4578 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 912, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 6993-A, 3 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 12 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1125 - 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay that aside 18 for the day. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside for the day. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1144, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 23 Bill Number 6012-A, Racing, Pari-mutuel Wagering 4579 1 and Breeding Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 3 last section. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 Senator Present, that completes 8 the non-con... we have one additional bill. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1151, reported directly for third reading 11 earlier today, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill 12 Number 8079-A, an act to amend the Public Health 13 Law, the Executive Law and Chapter 731 of the 14 Laws of 1993. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 62. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4580 1 is passed. 2 Senator Present, that completes 3 the non-controversial calendar. 4 Senator Hoffmann. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I request 6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 7 on 1151. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection, Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1151. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 17 recognize Senator Gold, please -- Senator 18 Mendez. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 20 recognizes Senator Mendez. 21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 There will be an immediate 4581 1 conference for the Democratic party. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 will be an immediate meeting of the Minority 4 Conference in the Minority Conference Room, 5 immediate meeting. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: We'll stand at 8 ease and those who want to sit can sit. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senate will stand or sit at ease. 11 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 12 ease from 3:14 p.m. to 3:59 p.m.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senate will come to order. Members please take 15 their seats. Staff find their places. The 16 Chair recognizes Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we take up Calendar 1148? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 20 will read Calendar Number 1148. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1148, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 23 Bill Number 8595, an act to establish certain 4582 1 provisions related to the 1994-95 state 2 operations aid to localities capital project and 3 debt service budgets. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 is there a message of necessity on 1148 at the 8 desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 10 informed that there is, Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 I move that we accept the message. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 15 the desk. All those in favor signify by saying 16 aye. 17 (Response of "Aye".) 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The message is accepted. 21 The Clerk will read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4583 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 6 the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 3, 8 Senators Dollinger, Jones and Pataki recorded in 9 the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: 1147, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 15 will read Calendar Number 1147. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1147, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 18 Bill Number 8594, authorizing local government 19 assistance corporation to sell bonds during the 20 state's 1994-95 fiscal year. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4584 1 is there a message of necessity for 1147 at the 2 desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Present, I'm informed from our Journal Clerk 5 that there is a message of necessity at the 6 desk. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 I move that we accept the message. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 motion is to accept the message of necessity. 11 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye".) 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The message is accepted. 16 The Clerk will read the last 17 section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4585 1 the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 1147 are 4 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones and Pataki. 5 Ayes 55, nays 4. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Could you tell 9 me how I'm recorded on 1148? I believe I'm 10 recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Hoffmann, you're recorded in the affirmative. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: On 1148? I 14 was in the negative. Mr. President, with 15 unanimous consent, please, make that correction. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 17 objection, Senator - 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: - 20 Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative on 21 Calendar Number 1148. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 4586 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: 1144, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 5 will read Calendar Number 1144. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1144, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Bill Number 6012-A, an act to amend the Racing, 9 Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 11 will read the last section. The Clerk has 12 called Calendar Number 1144. It's on page 33 of 13 your regular calendar. 14 Senator Dollinger has asked for 15 an explanation. 16 Senator Stafford. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: As you know, 18 the racing industry is a quasi private sector 19 activity here in New York, and this bill would 20 allow jockeys to wear advertising or promotional 21 material when the owner of the horse farm that 22 the horse comes from for whom the jockey is 23 riding provides written authority. 4587 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, will Senator Stafford yield to a 3 question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who gets the 7 revenue from the display of these materials? 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: This would be 9 -- the benefit would go to the benefit of the 10 jockey who was wearing the material. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I didn't 12 quite hear that, Mr. President. I apologize. 13 Just for the jockey? The jockey would sell on 14 his own silks even though he's wearing the 15 owner's silks? 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: You might want 17 to read this with me. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I wish I had 19 the bill, I would. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: You don't have 21 the bill? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I've 23 got it. 4588 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator, it 2 would appear to me that possibly the owner and 3 the jockey could get revenue here, but I think 4 initially it's just the jockey. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr. 6 President, just on the bill. I guess the sport 7 of kings is not the sport of - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger, on the bill. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- all the 11 other sports that will now have jockeys who will 12 be decked just like our tennis stars and 13 they'll all end up looking like the modified 14 sports cars that race at Canandaigua with 15 stickers and ownership and advertisers all over 16 them. I guess this may be inevitable. I'll 17 vote in favor. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Stafford. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: I make this 22 point. If I understand what -- just -- what was 23 just said. You know, it would be nice if we 4589 1 didn't need the free enterprize system, we 2 didn't need the private sector to take in funds, 3 because if we didn't have it, then you wouldn't 4 have the state, you wouldn't have the services 5 that we need here in the state. 6 Now, I see some of the racing, 7 and it makes me want to go back to some of the 8 activity that I did when I was younger, didn't 9 know any better. But, on the other hand, these 10 are products; there's a profit, and then, Mr. 11 President, there's a tax, and that's what 12 provides the state the locomotive to operate. 13 So I don't think we need 14 sarcastic statements. I don't think we need 15 wise statements. I think we've got to look at 16 what we have here and realize that there is a 17 private sector, and if people want to go to an 18 activity, if they want to watch an activity and 19 there is advertisements, then I would suggest - 20 and their money is made, then there is a tax, 21 this is where it all is. 22 Mr. President, I move the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 4590 1 will read the last section. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: I wonder if I 6 might ask -- I'm sorry. I wasn't in the chamber 7 -- if this could be laid over until tomorrow? 8 Is that possible? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford? 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Or temporarily 12 today? 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 14 temporarily. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 that bill has been laid aside temporarily, and I 23 would like to ask that Senator Marino's privi 4591 1 leged resolution be read at this time, just its 2 title. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 4 privileged resolution at the desk. We'll ask 5 that the Secretary read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 7 Resolution, by Senators Marino, Bruno and other 8 members of the Senate, commending Dr. William C. 9 Trigg, III, Executive Director of the Trooper 10 Foundation of the state of New York. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 question is on the resolution. All those in 13 favor signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The resolution is adopted. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 20 recognize Senator Smith, please? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Smith. 23 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 4592 1 President. 2 I believe I have a privileged 3 resolution at the desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a privileged resolution at the desk, Senator 6 Smith. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. I ask 8 that its title be read and move for its 9 adoption. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the title. 12 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 13 Resolution, by Senator Smith, honoring Margaret 14 R. Smith upon the occasion of her retirement 15 after 25 years of distinguished service with the 16 New York City Board of Education. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 question is on the resolution. All those in 19 favor signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye".) 21 Opposed nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 The resolution is adopted. 4593 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 once again may we stand at ease or sit at ease? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Senate will stand at ease. 6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 7 ease from 4:19 p.m. to 5:10 p.m.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senate will come to order. Members please take 10 their seats. Staff, take their places in the 11 chamber. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 I understand there's a message from the Assembly 15 at the desk. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. We 17 can return to messages from the Assembly. There 18 is a message here. I'll hand it down and ask 19 the Secretary to read. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Good. 21 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly sent 22 for concurrence the following bill: Assembly 23 Bill Number 11865, by the Assembly Committee on 4594 1 Rules, an act to provide for payments to 2 municipalities and to providers of medical 3 services under the Medical Assistance Program. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we have its 7 third reading at this time? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection, Senator Present, we'll move this to 10 the third reading. Seeing no objection, it's to 11 third reading. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 is there a message of necessity at the desk for 14 1154? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Present, I'm informed by the Secretary that 17 there is a message of necessity at the desk. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 I move that we accept that message. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 21 on the resolution to accept -- or excuse me, 22 motion is on the -- question is on the motion to 23 accept the message of necessity at the desk. 4595 1 All those favor signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye".) 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The message is accepted. 6 The Clerk will read the last 7 section. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 2, 15 Senators Holland and Maltese recorded in the 16 negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Sears, you wish to be 20 recorded in the negative? Without objection, 21 Senator Sears will be recorded in the negative 22 on the last bill passed. 23 The Senate will come to order. 4596 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 can we take up Calendar 1152, please? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1152. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1152, reported earlier today to third reading, 8 Senate Bill Number 6425, an act to authorize the 9 financing of local highway and bridge and rail 10 and aviation programs. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 3, 19 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann and Jones recorded 20 in the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Present. 4597 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 I would like to announce there will be a con 3 ference of the Majority at 9:00 p.m. in Room 4 332. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 6 will be a conference of the Majority at 9:00 7 p.m. this evening in the Majority Conference 8 Room, Room 332. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 I move that we recess until 9:00 o'clock. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Senate will stand in recess upon the motion of 14 Senator Present until 9:00 p.m. this evening. 15 (Whereupon, at 5:20 p.m., the 16 Senate stood in recess.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 4598 1 (Whereupon at 12:21 a.m., Senate 2 reconvened.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 4 will come to order. Members please take their 5 seats; staff their places. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President 8 can we take up Calendar 1146. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read Calendar Number 1146. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1146, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 13 Bill Number 6451A, an act making appropriations 14 for the support of government. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 19 message of necessity at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 21 informed by the Secretary there is, Senator 22 Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 4599 1 I move that we accept the message. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 motion is to accept the message of necessity. 4 All those in favor, signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The message is accepted. 9 Clerk will read the last section. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Hold on. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 14 recognizes Senator Stafford. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. This is legislation that we consider 17 every year, and of course this is the 18 legislative and judicial budget. 19 I would point out, Mr. President, 20 that I think this is fair to the Judiciary and 21 the judicial operations and fair to the 22 Legislature and the legislative operations. 23 I would point out, Mr. President, 4600 1 that this budget at the present time is still 6 2 million under what it was four years ago. I 3 think that's something that we should point 4 out. Also, the salary increases, on the 5 average, have been less than the other agencies 6 of state government. I'm sure there are some 7 within the sound of my voice that that does not 8 excite, and we intend to be fair. 9 Mr. President. In this day and 10 age, it sometimes is popular to promote the 11 decrease in spending and saying it for the sake 12 of saying it. I learned 29 years ago, when I 13 ran for office the first time and the person I 14 was running against wanted to cut this tax, 15 eliminate this tax, cut here, cut there, so I 16 just said, let's just cut all revenues 17 including, for instance, motor vehicle fees and 18 go on with it, and we also know that was 19 completely ridiculous, and it's completely 20 ridiculous to state that we do not need funding 21 for our legislative and judiciary. 22 I, once again, would point out 23 that this budget at the present time is 6 4601 1 million under what the legislative and judiciary 2 budget was four years ago. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes. Will the 7 Senator yield for a question? 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford do you yield? 11 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Stafford yields. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Looking through 16 this budget, I -- well, I don't want to beat a 17 dead horse, but I don't see a lot of 18 itemization. So I'm really curious to know 19 where the $6 million in savings from four years 20 ago occurred. Can you tell me where that was? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, of 22 course, that's really the overall 23 appropriation. We are spending less. We're 4602 1 spending $6 million less than we were four years 2 ago. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: But -- will the 4 Senator yield for another question? 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Stafford yields. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Perhaps I can 9 rephrase. I can't tell from the budget where we 10 are spending all these millions of dollars, but 11 I would like to know where we're not spending 12 the $6 million. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I think 14 that you would find that some is in salaries, 15 some is in items, some cutbacks. It would be in 16 just practically about every area. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Okay. Thank 18 you, Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 22 President. I believe there is two or maybe even 23 three amendments at the desk that have been 4603 1 served. And at this time, I would like to move 2 an amendment which bears at the top the number 3 80258-01-4. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter, could you just give me just a minute 6 to check - 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Sure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- to see 9 that that amendment - 10 That amendment is at the desk, 11 Senator Leichter. Would you like an opportunity 12 to explain that? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: At this time, 18 I would like to move this amendment, have an 19 opportunity to explain it. I waive the reading. 20 Mr. President. My colleagues and 21 friends here. If you will, the bill that we're 22 considering now bears some resemblance to 23 Dracula. You only see it at night, in the dark 4604 1 of night. I guess if light were shed on this 2 legislative budget -- much as happens to 3 Dracula, who withers away. 4 In recent history in my 5 experience, we only see this bill in the dark of 6 night usually after the church bell has struck 7 the hour of noon -- rather of midnight. 8 It can also be called a Dracula 9 bill because as Dracula sucked blood from his 10 victims, this bill sucks dollars from the 11 taxpayers. And we're going to give you an 12 opportunity by this amendment to deal with the 13 two most flagrant, basic flaws in budgeting that 14 exist in this state; and that is, one, the 15 bloated nature of the legislative budget and, 16 secondly, the lack of itemization which is a 17 disgrace and should be an embarrassment to every 18 member of this house, because you're voting on 19 multi-million dollar appropriations without 20 having the foggiest idea of how these 21 appropriations are going to be spent. 22 So we've changed this. We're 23 presenting you by this amendment a detailed, 4605 1 itemized budget, a budget that conforms with the 2 requirements of the State Constitution and a 3 budget that conforms with appropriate and proper 4 budgeting in having detail. It sets forth what 5 is spent by whom in terms of staff, in terms of 6 other than personal costs. 7 And what it does, in addition, 8 and what should have an appeal to my friends on 9 the other side of the aisle who would like to 10 get up and talk about the need of cutting 11 spending and helping the taxpayers, is that it 12 reduces the budget for the Senate by some 13 $41 million. Forty-one million dollars, if you 14 take both the current expenditures in this 15 budget, take the Senate budget of some near 16 $70 million and take the reappropriations of 17 about $14 million. 18 So that you have total 19 expenditures in this budget -- which Senator 20 Stafford did not address because he didn't 21 address the reappropriations. That you have 22 total expenditures here of some $80-85 million 23 for the Senate which we are reducing. 4606 1 We're reducing by cutting out all 2 of the reappropriations of $14 million, and 3 we're furthermore cutting the current 4 expenditures by some $24 million, and we're 5 going to have a Senate that is still going to be 6 one of the best financed Senates, but it's going 7 to be leaner. It's going to be more efficient. 8 It's going to be more democratic. It's going to 9 be less patronage ridden. It's going to be less 10 political, and it's going to be a better service 11 to the people of the State of New York. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize 13 for interrupting. I remember the last time I 14 did. I said, "I don't usually do this." But it 15 is getting to be a habit. 16 I was just asked this. If we're 17 doing this, why don't we also do something about 18 the $46 million reappropriate for the Assembly? 19 It's not in here. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 21 Stafford, we have here the reappropriates of the 22 Senate and the reappropriations joint 23 expenditures for the Senate and the Assembly. 4607 1 We here, obviously, can legislate for the whole 2 state, but we're most intimately aware of what 3 happens in our house. 4 Let me say that I personally 5 earlier called for all reappropriations to be 6 eliminated, and I have no problem with that. 7 But what we're doing here, Senator, is to cut 8 out the reappropriations for the house that we 9 serve in. 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: I just wanted 11 to make sure you didn't overlook it, that's all. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator, 13 let me just say if you want to join in cutting 14 out these reappropriations, I'm sure that 15 everybody here would welcome the chair of the 16 Finance Committee taking that leadership in 17 fiscal responsibility. 18 And if the purpose of your 19 question was to see if there would be support on 20 this side of the aisle for getting rid of all 21 reappropriations, I think you'll find 22 overwhelming support. 23 Is that what I understood? Did 4608 1 I - 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Then I would 3 just ask a further question. Why didn't you 4 include this in your legislation? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, for 6 the reasons that I explained. 7 But, Senator, we can begin right 8 now with the house that you and I serve in, and 9 we can certainly set an example for the 10 Assembly, and we'll see what they then do. 11 If I can understand your question 12 as eliciting interest in getting rid of 13 reappropriations -- and I take it because I know 14 you to be a fiscally responsible person, and 15 maybe later on we will have a chance to examine 16 more closely into these reappropriations. 17 But, Senator, I don't think we 18 need them. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I was 20 just going to say, I didn't want to see you - 21 what are we, 15 percent of the reappropriations? 22 And the other house has the other -- the 23 balance. I thought you might want to make it 4609 1 complete, that's all. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. If I may continue, and I do get some 4 hope from Senator Stafford's question because I 5 think he feels uncomfortable, as I do and as all 6 of us should, about reappropriations, which are 7 very difficult to understand. 8 But let me address this in a more 9 global sense to begin with. Senator Stafford 10 got up and said, we're reducing expenditure. 11 It's not as high as it was four years ago. 12 In the last ten years -- in the 13 last ten years, the State Operations Budget from 14 the fiscal year '84-85 to the fiscal year '93-94 15 increased by 39.8 percent. During that same 16 period, the expenditures -- the expenditures of 17 the Senate increased by 84.6 percent. More than 18 twice the rate of state operations. 19 Now, state operations is 20 primarily under the control of the Governor. 21 Obviously, the legislative budget and 22 particularly the Senate appropriations are under 23 our control. Yet we've seen this much greater 4610 1 increase in expenditures by the Legislature. 2 And, Senator Stafford, if you 3 take a look not only at appropriations but you 4 take a look at expenditures, last year the 5 expenditures of the Senate were higher; and four 6 years ago, they were also higher than you 7 indicate because, certainly, two years ago there 8 was a resort to reappropriation. So while the 9 Senate -- well, the total legislative budget, I 10 believe, was $167 million. In fact, the 11 expenditure was close to $175 million because 12 you dipped into what we have, and I think 13 appropriately, called a slush fund. 14 Now, what we also do with this 15 amendment is that we return to the taxpayers the 16 $41 million that we're saving; $41 million 17 representing elimination of the reappropriations 18 and cutting the expenditure of the Senate 19 roughly by 20 percent, and we're returning this 20 to localities in the form of revenue sharing. 21 Now, we want to give you the 22 opportunity to give substance to what I've heard 23 so many of you on the other side of the aisle 4611 1 say; which is, cut government spending, return 2 money to the taxpayers. And that's what we are 3 doing by this amendment, and it certainly ought 4 to have your support. 5 And if it doesn't have your 6 support, I can see somebody saying, "Well, wait 7 a second, maybe you didn't mean it when you talk 8 about let's cut government spending." It's 9 always somebody else's spending but nothing is 10 too good for the Senate. You would like to see 11 the state operations run on a -- on such a cost 12 efficient basis like a stripped-down Ford 13 Escort; but when it comes to the Senate, a 14 stretch limousine is what is appropriate. And 15 we've documented over the years excessive 16 expenditures, unreasonable expenditures, even 17 improper expenditures -- improper expenditures 18 when you take a look at mailings that were sent 19 out on behalf of Republican incumbents running 20 for re-election, mailings that far exceeded the 21 permissible amount of mail that was to be sent. 22 It's time to end the scam. It's time to end 23 what is really a disgrace. It's time to be 4612 1 honest with the taxpayers. It's time to be 2 honest in our budgeting, and this amendment 3 gives you the opportunity to do it. 4 I just want to go just a little 5 bit into some of the details so you appreciate 6 what this does. As I've said, it eliminates the 7 reappropriations. 8 Let me just say, about the 9 reappropriations, reappropriations generally are 10 for capital expenditures or for programs that 11 extend over a number of years. It is unheard of 12 to have reappropriations of millions and 13 millions of dollars for current expenditures. 14 If we didn't spend the money, we ought to return 15 it. There's no explanation whatsoever. There's 16 no backup sheets which are provided in all other 17 instances where a state agency or departments 18 has a reappropriation. 19 I think the reappropriation for 20 the judicial is something like $250,000. The 21 reappropriation for the Senate alone -- for the 22 Senate and joint Senate and Assembly 23 expenditures is $14 million. 4613 1 Now, the reappropriations for 2 state agencies are set forth in the budget 3 bills. There's backup materials. The 4 reappropriations for the Legislature are hidden 5 from the public. They are not made available 6 until the legislative bill comes out on the day 7 that we vote on it. 8 Now, there is a Legislative and 9 Judicial Budget Bill that is sent up by the 10 Governor, has no reappropriations in it 11 whatsoever. But when we finally get the A 12 print, then we see the reappropriations. 13 And what's the reason? What's 14 the purpose? What is the need, other than to 15 have money for the legislative leaders to dip in 16 whenever they feel there is a need as there 17 apparently was in the 1993-1994 year, when the 18 reappropriation was utilized to the extent of 19 about $7-1/2 million. 20 You know, I've been getting up 21 and arguing against the legislative budget and 22 voting against it and urging that we change it 23 because it really dishonors us. It is false. 4614 1 It cannot be defended. It is a disgrace. 2 And let me just say we may have 3 differences among us, the two sides of the aisle 4 and even within each side of the aisle; but one 5 thing I truly believe in is that this 6 legislative chamber consists of very dedicated, 7 honest men and women trying to do a job. So 8 what do we gain, really, except the momentary 9 advantage of being able to pull this fiscal 10 chicanery by having this sort of a Legislative 11 Budget; and whatever that gain is, we lose much 12 more in dishonoring this institution. 13 We can't continue to say to the 14 Judiciary and to the Governor, "Tell us exactly 15 how you spend your money and we're going to be 16 really careful watchdogs," but when it comes to 17 our budget, anything goes. It's wrong. It's 18 wrong. It's wrong, and we ought to put an end 19 to it, a stop to it. 20 None of it is going to change the 21 division of powers in this chamber. You adopt 22 our amendment, and you are still going to be the 23 majority and you are still going to be able to 4615 1 function as a majority. We're not trying to 2 stay away your political power, which obviously 3 is based on the fact you've got 35 members, we 4 have 26. But what we do here is to treat each 5 member with the same dignity and right because 6 we all represent roughly the same number of 7 constituents. They are all entitled to the 8 service. 9 We recognize there are committee 10 chairs, and the committee chairs will be given 11 more staffing, more authority. That's 12 appropriate. But what is not appropriate is to 13 have some member here receive a staff allowance 14 of over a million dollars, which is the case, 15 and other members receive a staff allowance 16 which is a quarter of that. And this budget 17 changes that. 18 Another thing that is 19 inappropriate is to permit mailings for the 20 majority that far exceed the rules and that, 21 indeed, end up being a form of campaign 22 financing. The only difference between this 23 campaign financing and the campaign financing 4616 1 that the Assembly has passed is that your 2 campaign financing is only for incumbent 3 Republican Senators. That's wrong. It's 4 unnecessary, and we reduce, by this amendment, 5 the mailing budget by close to $800,000. 6 In all, we reduce the Senate 7 personnel service by almost $7 million, 14 8 percent cut. We reduce the Senate nonpersonel 9 service by over $2-1/2 million, a 14 percent 10 cut. The Senate maintenance undistributed is 11 reduced by $2 million, 100 percent cut. And the 12 Senate share of legislative commissions is cut 13 completely, 100 percent, over $4-1/2. We don't 14 need those commissions. We have standing 15 committees. They are well staffed. Let them do 16 the work. 17 Mr. President. My colleagues. I 18 just want to tell you that we can go and we can 19 complain about, "Oh, the Governor is spending 20 too much," but this budget is under our 21 control. And I have it on the highest authority 22 that if we reduce the amount in the legislative 23 budget provided for the Senate, the Governor 4617 1 will sign it. He has no objections to it. He 2 will welcome it. He will welcome if we here 3 reduce the burden on the taxpayers. 4 And let me tell you, the 5 increases that we've had in the legislative 6 budget is our responsibility. It's not Mario 7 Cuomo's fault. It is the fault of the Senate 8 Republicans. But it is a fault that you can 9 cure right here and now. Right here and now, 10 you can vote for this amendment. You can send 11 out a newsletter. You may not have as much 12 money left for newsletters, but you can send out 13 a press release saying to your people, "I have 14 done what I told you I wanted to do. I have cut 15 government spending. I have cut it where I can 16 control it, right here, my own expenditures in 17 the Senate. 18 So, my colleagues and friends, 19 let's do this. Let's do the right thing. Let's 20 cut the spending. Let's return the money to the 21 localities. And let's, for once, present the 22 people of the State of New York with an honest 23 legislative budget. 4618 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold on the amendment. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Mr. President, first of all, I 6 really want to congratulate Senator Leichter and 7 also Senator Dollinger and the people who worked 8 on this, because this is a very difficult job, 9 coming up with this amendment, and I'll tell you 10 why. If you are in the majority and you have 11 access to all of the numbers the way you do, 12 that's one thing. And from our point of view, 13 we have had to, led by Senator Leichter, 14 reconstruct. Because to say that there is a 15 lack of cooperation in giving numbers would be 16 the understatement of the year. 17 At any rate, we have put forward 18 what is not only reasonable but the results of 19 legitimate hard work. Senator Stafford 20 interrupted Senator Leichter with a question, a 21 legitimate question and, Senator Stafford, I 22 would like to give you my own kind of answer. 23 In the last ten years, if you 4619 1 take a look at the Senate and you take a look at 2 the Assembly, we in this house have been 3 responsible for increasing our budget 84 percent 4 while the Assembly in the same period of time 5 has increased by 50 percent. So, Senator, we 6 have more to account for to the people than the 7 Assembly. 8 And my job tonight is not to 9 defend the Assembly or attack the Assembly. My 10 job is to show the people I represent that my 11 approach to financing government is an honest 12 approach. 13 Now, we're saying, Senator 14 Stafford, that if in the next fiscal year, the 15 one we're entering, we need extra money, then 16 we're going to come here like every state 17 agency, openly, honestly, and say we need 18 something in a deficiency budget, but we're not 19 going to reach into the back pocket as has been 20 done before. 21 And as Senator Leichter pointed 22 out so well, one of the biggest lies that comes 23 out of this place is if anyone tells the 4620 1 constituency that we passed a budget last year 2 and lived within that budget because we weren't 3 in a deficiency. Everybody knows how we got 4 that money. 5 We are 60 days late with the 6 budget, and we come in with something which 7 really is hypocritical, the height of 8 hypocrisy. Yesterday, in our Finance Committee, 9 we had presented to us a budget that was 139 10 pages followed by pages R-1 through R -- I think 11 it was 791, detailed page after page. People 12 would read through and say, "Where is that 13 construction project? Where is the money to fix 14 the doors in the school? Where is the money to 15 do this and that?" 16 And when we had the bill in 17 Finance today, I asked the question - 18 obviously, tongue in cheek -- after I got these 19 few pages, "Where are the R pages?" Where are 20 the additional pages? And we don't do it, and 21 we ought to be ashamed, and it's enough. 22 Things are allowed to change. It 23 is legitimate to improve. And the amendment 4621 1 offered by Senator Leichter really is that major 2 opportunity. 3 Now, I know, Senator Leichter, 4 that you are in for a major surprise because I 5 was watching television a week ago and I saw one 6 member on the other side of the aisle who has 7 some interest in public office, not necessarily 8 even in this house, saying how, my God, this 9 process has to change. It's got to open. 10 And I was looking at this person 11 and saying, my God, that speech must have been 12 written by Senator Leichter. 13 So, Senator, I guess you let it 14 out of the bag, but I assume that we're getting 15 some help from the other side because I know 16 that there is certainly nobody running for major 17 office on the other side who would make a 18 statement on public television about what the 19 budget ought to be and then, when faced with the 20 ability to make in a work after all the years of 21 voting against those reforms, I'm sure, Senator 22 Leichter, you are in for some pleasant 23 surprises. 4622 1 I hope this budget passes. I 2 think it would be stunning as far as the people 3 of the state is concerned. As a matter of fact, 4 I think it would be stunning for everybody in 5 government, and we ought to seize that 6 opportunity. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger on the amendment. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President. I have sat in this seat for the last 11 60-plus days while a budget deliberation process 12 went on, one that I understand was difficult for 13 the participants, one that involved very 14 significant issues for the people of this 15 state. But my understanding is that it came 16 down to a couple million dollars here, 17 $10 million there, $20 million there, and it 18 seems to me unbelievable that we would sit here 19 tonight with a proposal from Senator Leichter 20 put together by the task force, which we had to 21 pry out the information we couldn't get from our 22 colleagues on the other side of the aisle, but 23 yet we have very good news. I think it's 4623 1 wonderful news. Absolutely spectacular news. 2 The spectacular news is we found 3 a way to run this house for $41 million less 4 than it took last year. We've got $41 million 5 more, 750,000 per member in this chamber. Go 6 back to your school districts and tell them that 7 we can give them $750,000 more in education 8 aid. We can give $750,000 more in each Senate 9 district for aid to localities, whether you want 10 to give it to towns or counties, whatever you 11 want to do. 12 We've got the ability to run this 13 operation and yet save $41 million. Think of 14 what it could do for tax cuts in this state if 15 we've got $41 million more that we can give back 16 to business. Think of what it would do for 17 local governments. Think of what it would do 18 for education. Think of the textbooks that it 19 would buy. 20 It seems to me that I have been 21 told by my colleagues from the other side of the 22 aisle, a number of conversations, we ought to 23 run government like a business. I submit to you 4624 1 that not one of you as a business person would 2 walk out the door to run a $160-80 million 3 operation like we run here with a budget like 4 we've got on the desk before us. No, the first 5 thing that you would do as a reasonable business 6 person is you'd want itemized budget 7 expenditures so you'd be able to handle the 8 accounting and find out who is spending money, 9 who isn't spending money, where is it going, are 10 you getting dollar value for it. 11 All those good business decisions 12 that all the business people in this chamber 13 would like to be able to make, you can't make 14 them with this budget because we're not running 15 this house like a business. 16 It seems to me that Senator 17 Leichter is correct when he points out that this 18 is the one part of the state government where we 19 are the executive, where we have the ability to 20 make all the decisions about who gets to do 21 what, how it gets done, how much it costs, when 22 it gets done. We are the executive in our own 23 house; and it seems to me, all those times other 4625 1 members of this house have said, "We're going to 2 tell the Governor what to do about his 3 departments, about how he should save money," 4 this side of the aisle has brought up a proposal 5 which says, "In our own department, in our own 6 house, we can save $40 million in the next 7 year." 8 We can't ignore that. We can't 9 ignore that money. It's the taxpayers' money. 10 We don't need it to run this operation. We can 11 save it. It seems to me that the old adage of 12 fiscal conservatism starts best where? In your 13 own house, when you treat the other people's 14 money just like you treat your own. 15 Why don't we start that trend of 16 fiscal conservatism. If that's what we want to 17 do, let's start it right in this house. Let's 18 run this house the way you would run your own 19 house back at 123 Edgeview Lane, where I live, 20 or anybody else lives. Let's sit down with the 21 checkbook. Let's itemize the expenses. Let's 22 save the money where we can save it, and give it 23 back to the people who sent us here. It's $40 4626 1 million. It's $40 million that can be saved by 2 bringing economy and efficiency and fairness, 3 kicking politics out of our government and 4 bringing about a system that will share the 5 resources equally and give to each member of 6 this house what they need to service their 7 constituents and handle the problems that come 8 before them. 9 It seems to me, Mr. President, 10 this is not only an eminently reasonable 11 amendment, it's the standard upon which 12 everything should operate in this state. It's 13 the standard that we apply to every other 14 department in this state, but for some reason we 15 don't apply it here. I suggest that that's 16 because once every two years we have to run for 17 re-election, because politics gets in the way of 18 our better sense, and whatever fiscal 19 conservative we believe in we want everyone else 20 to practice it but ourselves. 21 I suggest that we set the trend 22 here, that we start here, that we commit 23 ourselves to running this place efficiently and 4627 1 fairly and then we'll be able to look with 2 integrity at the rest of this state and demand 3 that they do as well. 4 I'd just point out I come from a 5 local government. We spend hours upon hours 6 upon hours counting small expenditures, deciding 7 whether to buy more cars, which cost $20,000 a 8 piece. We would have debates about how many to 9 buy. We talked about -- fighting over thousands 10 of dollars, little tiny amounts of money for 11 specific programs. If you gave me $40 million 12 when I was in the county legislature, I would 13 have been overwhelmed. I wouldn't have known 14 how to deal with that amount of money, because 15 we counted every penny. 16 We here in state government have 17 apparently forgotten how to count our own 18 pennies that we have in our own pockets. No 19 wonder the people out there see our pockets 20 stuffed with money. We're not behaving 21 responsibly with it. 22 The way to start is with an 23 itemized budget, cut the expenditures, do it the 4628 1 way business would do it. Do it the way local 2 governments do it. Do it the way the people 3 expect us to do it. 4 We worked very hard to put all 5 this together. It makes a lot of sense. It 6 makes sense for the people of this state, and we 7 ought to do it, Mr. President. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Connor. Senator Galiber. 11 We have a list. Senator Connor, 12 we have a list. 13 SENATOR CONNOR: All right. 14 Fine, then put me on the list. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Connor, go ahead. Senator Galiber yields to 17 you. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 19 I support this amendment. But I can't help even 20 looking at the bigger picture. I have here the 21 Legislative and Judicial Budget, and I have read 22 it from cover to cover. It's only 30-some 23 pages. That's wonderful to find a budget bill I 4629 1 can read from cover to cover. 2 I didn't learn very much reading 3 it from cover to cover. It doesn't tell me very 4 much. Even as Senator Leichter and Senator Gold 5 were speaking, this bill was passed out, and I 6 dare say I can't conveniently read it from cover 7 to cover. It's printed on both sides. I 8 suspect we will be given a short recess and be 9 held to the vote on a budget embracing literally 10 thousands and thousands of items. 11 But I just flipped through like 12 this, and I saw items as little as $2500 spelled 13 out where that $2500 goes. Looking here, 14 there's 5,000, 10,000, different items, and it 15 tells me exactly where they are going. And were 16 the process to be other than it is, I would 17 enjoy having a couple days to review this and 18 make a considered decision on whether or not to 19 vote for all this money. 20 But here we are in the middle of 21 the night and faced with this, these two 22 extremes: A Legislative and Judicial Budget 23 which we actually got some hours ago which tells 4630 1 us nothing because there is no itemization; and 2 a detailed Local Assistance Budget that we get 3 at 1:00 o'clock in the morning and we'll 4 probably be voting on at 2:00 o'clock in the 5 morning and that I dare say a speed reader would 6 have a difficult time ascertaining all that's in 7 it. 8 So we now find ourselves 9 confronted with a budget process, and it's no 10 secret in this state that it's broken. It 11 doesn't work. We are very, very late in the 12 process. It hasn't worked. I don't think there 13 is a voter in this state that thinks, "Gee, 14 don't we have a great budget system." They may 15 have thought that back when Al Smith introduced 16 the executive budget system. Nobody believes it 17 today. Why? Is there something wrong with the 18 way it's spelled out in the Constitution? I 19 don't think so. There is something wrong with 20 the process that allows politics to overcome 21 common sense, that allows political 22 considerations to override governmental and 23 fiscal considerations, that results year after 4631 1 year in the political brinksmanship that we see 2 time and time again, and, again, that leads us 3 here in the middle of the night. 4 And I think the place to begin 5 changing this is right here in our own house. 6 And I dare say, Senator Leichter's amendment is 7 the dagger, is the stake, if you will, is the 8 stake to be plunged into Dracula's heart. 9 The people, by the way, they want 10 this. It's not 40 years ago when the 11 Legislature spent a few thousand dollars and it 12 didn't amount to much, and it was convenient. I 13 have looked at old legislative budgets. I mean, 14 you know, there's a couple thousand dollars for 15 clerks in it and a couple thousand dollars for 16 some secretaries and maybe $1500 for a court 17 reporter, and it's all spelled out in there 18 years ago. It all amounted to but a few 19 thousand dollars and no one fussed or bothered 20 about whether or not it was sufficiently 21 itemized. 22 Today, it's a lot of money. The 23 people are watching. They have a lot of 4632 1 legitimate questions about how we conduct our 2 own business, and we owe it to this 3 institution. We owe it to ourselves 4 politically, by the way, to answer the people's 5 questions, and there is nothing wrong with that, 6 but we have a higher obligation to this 7 institution of the Senate not because we sit 8 here, not because we draw our paycheck here, but 9 because it is the people's Senate. It is the 10 bedrock of our representative government, and we 11 owe it to that institution that's more than 200 12 years old to ensure that the people have 13 confidence in the way their legislature conducts 14 its business, conducts their business, the 15 people's business. And we fail if we don't meet 16 that responsibility. 17 The time has come, leaving aside 18 what happened in the past. The time is here now 19 to put together a legislative budget that will 20 reassure the people that this body knows exactly 21 how it's conducting its business. 22 Mr. President. I intend to 23 support this amendment. 4633 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Galiber on the amendment. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 Senator Leichter, will you yield 6 for a question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter, do you yield? 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, sir. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 yields. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator 13 Leichter, in your amendment if and when -- or 14 when it does pass here, how much money are we 15 talking about, for savings, that is? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, we're 17 talking a total savings, if you include the 18 reappropriation and reduction of recurred 19 expenditures, we're talking $41 million. Now, 20 14 million of that will not be a recurring 21 savings but the $25 million will bring the 22 Senate spending, not only for this year but in 23 future years, down. So that while we're saving 4634 1 $41 million this year, we're going to be saving 2 monies in all the years stretching out into the 3 future. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, will 5 you yield for another question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 yields. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, is 12 your amendment suggesting that the $41 million 13 savings be put into the legislative budget or be 14 utilized by our overall budgeting process? For 15 example, the $41 million that you project for 16 this year, could it be used for local 17 government? Could it be used for revenue 18 sharing. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 20 that's precisely what it does, is returns this 21 money to the localities. Each one of you is 22 going to be able to go back to your locality - 23 you, Senator Bruno, can go back, and you can say 4635 1 tomorrow, "I have returned, I have brought to my 2 community..." -- I guess it would come out to 3 about 700 -- maybe around $750,000, Senator, 4 that will go not to state agencies but will go 5 directly to your community, Senator. And I know 6 because you speak very strongly very 7 passionately about reducing government spending 8 and at the same time helping localities, and 9 this will do that in one fell swoop, and you 10 will be able to say, "I have done it in the most 11 honorable, selfless manner imagineable. I cut 12 my own expenditures." 13 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 Senator Stafford, would you yield 16 for a question, too. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stafford, do you yield? 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, from a 23 different perspective I support my amendment and 4636 1 congratulate, first of all, the task force who 2 has brought some light to this body. We have 3 paid collectively a dear price in one form or 4 another as a result of your excellence and your 5 industry in terms of your task force. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Are you asking 7 me whether I agree with that or not? 8 SENATOR GALIBER: No, not yet. I 9 will ask you later on. 10 So I want to take that 11 opportunity. 12 Now back to the question, 13 Senator. Senator, this year's revenue sharing, 14 do you know how much money is appropriated this 15 year for revenue sharing? 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I believe 17 we'll get the budget out here in the next bill, 18 and I think we'll find it. We'll get it for 19 you. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, if I 21 suggest - 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Approximately 23 $50 million. 4637 1 SENATOR GALIBER: $50 million? 2 Senator, do you know what the revenue sharing 3 was in 1988-89 here? That's a loaded question. 4 Let me get a little more - 5 Back in 1988-89 -- it's not a 6 loaded question. But '88-89, what percentage of 7 our income, personal income tax was attributed 8 to revenue sharing? 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Do you mean 10 what did the Senate, controlled by our majority 11 here, pass? 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, we passed 13 it, yes. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. Right. 15 It was much more than what that - 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Much more than 17 what, Senator? 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Than what I 19 just said. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: What did you 21 say, Senator? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: It was more. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Is that more or 4638 1 less than what you said before. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: More. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Mr. 4 President. Just so that we won't get into - 5 ahead of ourselves, let me say Mr. President, 6 that I come from a different perspective, or at 7 least on this particular amendment. I'm in 8 favor as I mentioned before. 9 But I say to you, Senator, and 10 thank you for your informed answers, that back 11 in 1988 and '89 that revenue sharing was 12 8 percent of our personal income; and at that 13 time, the revenue was 1.23 billion. Back as it 14 stands now from this year, we were down to 15 $492 million in revenue sharing. 16 What I'm suggesting is that this 17 year we might very well be adding some 18 additional money into revenue sharing, some 19 $37 million in the proposed budget for this 20 year, which will bring it up to about 492 21 million. What I'm suggesting is if we add the 22 20 million in this amendment, we will now have 23 $529 million in revenue sharing. 4639 1 Revenue sharing is one of the 2 most important things to local government. 3 We've heard a great deal discussed here in this 4 body about how we can help local government. We 5 have gone through the process of suggesting 6 taking over Medicaid, and that's fallen by the 7 wayside; or we have used Band-Aids, if you will, 8 to help local government. 9 We have worked out formulas where 10 with a pool of money, I suspect, in this year's 11 budget, some local persons will receive up to 12 about 7 percent increase. Some will receive 13 absolutely nothing. 14 As a result of your 15 reapportionment plan, I inherited a small plot 16 of Westchester County called Mount Vernon. I 17 fell in love with Mount Vernon because it's a 18 small, small city where little bits of money 19 makes a difference. Last year, we asked for a 20 million dollars -- a million dollars. Some have 21 suggested that might very well be a member item 22 to somebody on the other side of the aisle. 23 Certainly not here. Couldn't get it. 4640 1 And now we find that there's 2 special formulas for some group of cities 3 throughout this great state of ours. 4 Mount Vernon is not included. Wouldn't we have 5 to disspell with this notion, the charade that 6 we go through, if we hit on an area where nobody 7 but nobody could object. 8 We remember back in 1988 and 9 through 1992 and '93. The revenue sharing, as I 10 mentioned before, was cut from the 8 percent to 11 1.65 percent of personal income. That 1.5 cut 12 represents the difference between a 1.23 billion 13 and 492 million that we share. 14 And this was right after, if you 15 recall, that the Governor of this state had 16 suggested back in 1986-87, when we were anxious 17 -- anxious, if you will, to cut income tax. 18 The Governor in his wisdom told us that we 19 should not go that route, but we didn't pay any 20 attention to him, and we did just that. 21 And right after '86-87, right 22 after, we were hit with two periods of 23 recession. We haven't got back to where we were 4641 1 before then, yet. We still have $800 million, 2 the last step, which we hold because we need 3 that revenue. 4 Some of us understand better than 5 others what that $800 million each year in our 6 budgetary process means to a state in terms of 7 ratings and how it looks. How -- does it really 8 add to the perception that New York is one of 9 the highest tax states? Yes, it does because 10 it's there in black and white. 11 So, Mr. President, we have an 12 opportunity as a result of income tax cut, 13 reduction in aid to revenue sharing, our 14 localities have had to go to regressive taxes, 15 sales tax, property tax, how much of back door 16 financing, how much of all the things that we're 17 dealing with now, the 15 percent surcharge, the 18 alternate minimum tax, the arguments that we're 19 now taking into consideration for tax cuts, how 20 many of those things do we have to do as a 21 result of the cuts in 1986 and '87 and the 22 revenue sharing decrease over a period of time? 23 So, Mr. President, we have an 4642 1 opportunity in this amendment to give back to 2 local government in a fair formula, in a fair 3 formula, an opportunity to receive monies and 4 deal with it in the areas of concern that each 5 locality has. 6 We've heard horror stories 7 throughout the State of New York as to what - 8 as a result of lack of revenue sharing what we 9 have had to do, those local governments have had 10 to do to people and the programs that they've 11 had to cut out, and the police departments and a 12 number of over things that are integrally tied 13 into our aid to localities. If we merely take 14 one issue and do one change, it should be 15 revenue sharing. That's what we really should 16 be focusing on, but we can not do it this year. 17 We did a bit with an increase as 18 far as the economy is concerned. It's my 19 understanding from staff that there is a 20 7 percent increase in revenue sharing, as I 21 mentioned before, but certainly nowhere close to 22 where it was before. 23 So, Mr. President, I support this 4643 1 amendment and ask you to focus in, colleagues, 2 on the fact that if this amendments does in fact 3 pass, and it's difficult in the real world, but 4 there is an opportunity to add another pot of 5 money to the increase in revenue sharing that 6 we're doing this year or we will do before we go 7 home on this budget, an opportunity to add some 8 more millions of dollars which will aid 9 localities in a proper way. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 question is on the amendment to Calendar Number 13 1146. All those in favor. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Stafford, why do you rise? On the amendment. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't want 19 to prolong any debates, but I think I should 20 point out that -- again, we're worrying about 21 Mount Vernon. Right now, they're getting 22 $3,592,794. The increase this year will be 23 $273,052. 4644 1 And I know all of you want to be 2 accurate and don't want to just grandstand. 3 Just for the record, both houses have been 4 increased the same amount every year. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Oh, just -- Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Galiber. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: At the risk of 10 being put in the category of grandstanding, 11 certainly I don't do that very often. Senator, 12 we're not suggesting that any one house is 13 getting more than the other. I thought I made 14 it clear, but let me try again. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: I wasn't 16 talking about you. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: We're talking 18 about the 7 percent increase in revenue sharing 19 that goes throughout the legislative branch of 20 government. What I've said simply is that if we 21 can save the 20 percent that the amendment calls 22 for, that 20 percent represents $40 million. 23 And to take the opportunity for that $40 million 4645 1 to be spread not on this side of the aisle or 2 not with the majority of the other house but in 3 the entire legislative branch of government. 4 So really we're talking about, 5 roughly, another 7 percent, which would be 6 14 percent I believe as opposed to 7 percent, 7 roughly speaking, rounded out. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will the 9 Senator yield for a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Stafford? Senator Galiber, do you yield? 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Just let me 13 finish my point, and then I certainly will 14 yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 refuses to yield. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, I'm 18 suggesting -- refuse is a harsh word. I just 19 delayed yielding. I recognize, Senator, that 20 all local governments share in this formula. I 21 wasn't suggesting that Mount Vernon was cut out 22 completely. That's impossible to do. I'm not 23 sure whether someone would do it or not. 4646 1 The fact of the matter is that I 2 was making reference to a small city, and there 3 are some large cities also that would benefit. 4 The City of New York certainly would benefit 5 also if it had 14 percent increase as opposed to 6 a 7 percent increase. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I just 8 wanted to. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: I'll yield. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: No question. 13 I know we want to be accurate here. Every city 14 will receive 7.6 percent increase, not 7 15 percent. And I might add that half a percent is 16 pretty important in the cities I come from. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: No, I'm sorry. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Galiber. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: The hour is 4647 1 late, but -- Senator, we would round out the 7 2 percent. If it's 7.6, you -- will you yield for 3 a question? 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Stafford yields. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: You will, 8 Senator, so I will be accurate, or we will be 9 accurate. If, in fact, we save the 20 percent 10 which represents $40 million, what percentage 11 added on to the 7.6 will be attributed to 12 revenue sharing, exactly? 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I would 14 say -- Senator McNamara said one time when he 15 was asked that by one of our representatives, he 16 said, "If you give me time to complete it, I 17 will give it to you. It's not difficult." 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, now in 19 the spirit of - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Galiber. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, you're 23 interested in being precise and accurate and 6 4648 1 percent -- 7.6 makes a big difference in your 2 locality. It certainly does in my locality. 3 You have your charts there. 4 Tell me, and I'll settle for a guesstimate or an 5 estimate on it. What percentage will 6 $41 million, $40 million or $41 million, add to 7 revenue sharing rounded out from the 7.6 to be 8 accurate. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will just 10 share with you I don't say anything on the floor 11 unless I know the exact answer. I will get it 12 for you. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 17 just have to correct one thing that Senator 18 Stafford says. When Senator Stafford says that 19 the legislative budgets for the Assembly and the 20 Senate have been the same, have risen the same, 21 that is an illusion for the following reason. 22 We do a budget and we give a 23 certain amount of money to the Assembly and a 4649 1 certain amount of money to the Senate, and they 2 tell you that that's the same or it's the same 3 percentage. But what Senator Stafford is not 4 saying is that once the Senate has gone through 5 its share, it has been reaching into the drawer 6 to its slush funds and spending that extra 7 amount of money. 8 Now, that's why, Senator 9 Stafford, it's easy to say that the Assembly 10 fund is bigger than the Senate fund, because 11 we've been spending it and they haven't. 12 So, now, you want to point to the 13 Assembly which has been fiscally more 14 responsible over the years and somehow tie them 15 them into this mess. 16 The bottom line is that we, the 17 Senate, you, the controlling people in the 18 Senate, have spent these reappropriations 19 without having to account to the people in a 20 deficiency budget. 21 So the budgeting and the spending 22 have not been the same. The initial 23 appropriations are the same, but the amount of 4650 1 money that we have spent has been in excess of 2 the Assembly. And those are facts, Senator 3 Stafford. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 question is on the amendment to Calendar Number 6 1146. All those favor of the amendment. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in 8 favor of the amendment. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 10 will call the roll. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 12 the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 14 will call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 the amendment.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 26. Nays 18 34. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 amendment is defeated. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Is that with the 22 exceptions on the other side? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4651 1 amendment is defeated. 2 Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. President. 4 I believe there is another amendment on this 5 portion of the bill, which is at the desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 is. Do you waive its reading and ask an 8 opportunity to explain it, Senator Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I do, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 12 recognizes Senator Dollinger to explain his 13 amendment. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President. This is an amendment that involves 16 Senator from the 54th district and his attempt 17 to perhaps introduce some line item accounting 18 and some of the principles that Senator Leichter 19 talked about into the portion of the budget 20 which affect the 54th Senate District; and, in 21 specific, and this amendment does two things, 22 Mr. President. It reduces the appropriation for 23 mail services for the New York Senate Senate by 4652 1 $11,103 in the coming fiscal year, which 2 represents the cost of a single newsletter to 3 the 54th District; and, in addition, it reduces 4 the reappropriation on page 20 of the bill from 5 3.4 million to about -- by $22,000 which 6 represents a reduction in two mailings that were 7 not used by the Senator from the 54th District. 8 What it does is it reduces the 9 budget to reflect a reduction in the anticipated 10 mail costs and reduces the reappropriation to 11 reflect the fact of the mailing costs that were 12 not expended and that should fall back into the 13 general public treasury and not be continued in 14 the reappropriation account. 15 From my point of view, this 16 reflects a decision on my part to reduce the 17 mailing costs of my own that I have allocated to 18 me under the prior budget for the 54th District 19 and I think are a step in the direction of 20 getting the mailing costs under control. I wish 21 that I could earmark this $33,000 back to my 22 locality so that it would to go my community. I 23 haven't done that. I don't think I can do that 4653 1 under this budget. I'd have to tuck it into the 2 aid to localities and increase it by that 3 amount. But this is money that comes from the 4 people in my district. I didn't use this 5 money. I don't intend to use this money. I'm 6 going to live by different rules; and from my 7 point of view, the people in my community ought 8 to share in that savings. 9 So, Mr. President, I move that. 10 It's a reduction in the legislative budget. 11 It's a reduction in the reappropriations to 12 reflect a change in the mailing practices in the 13 54th Senate District. 14 I would urge all my colleagues to 15 save that $33,000, give it back to the taxpayers 16 of this state. I wish I could give it directly 17 to the people of my district; but if the people 18 in the state share in the benefit, that's just 19 as well. 20 I would urge the adoption of this 21 amendment. It doesn't affect anyone else in the 22 house. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4654 1 question is on the amendment. All those in 2 favor of supporting the amendment, signify by 3 saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (Response of "Nay.") 7 The amendment is defeated. 8 Clerk will read the last 9 section. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 15 the proceedings.) 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter on the bill? 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: On the bill, 21 please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter on the bill. 4655 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 2 Mr. President. Would Senator 3 Stafford be so good as to yield, please? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Stafford, do you yield? 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Stafford yields, Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, could 10 you tell us why the original print of the 11 Legislative Budget, and specifically of the 12 Senate, contained in S.6451. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Excuse me. 14 Where now? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, this was 16 the original print -- we're dealing with the A 17 print -- the original print which came out in 18 February, Senate 6451, appropriated 250,000 for 19 printing. The print that we have before us now 20 doubles that appropriation to $500,000. Could 21 you tell us what the reason for that is? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Where is the 23 appropriation that's doubling? What page? 4656 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: It's page 3, 2 line 13. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, there 4 were increased printing demands and the costs 5 went up. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: You are saying 7 that between February 1994 and June 7, 1994, 8 there were increased costs that required a 9 doubling of the printing appropriation? 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: This is from 11 the middle of November until now. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry. 13 Senator, the date of S.6451 was about 14 February 1 of - 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: We had to 16 submit the bill by December 1st to the Governor. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: But you 18 acknowledge that there is - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter, are you asking Senator Stafford to 21 continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4657 1 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator 3 Leichter, again, you and I sharing the same area 4 a good part of the year, I'm sure that anything 5 you would say would be true, and I won't even 6 check the original bill. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, 8 Senator. 9 And I know that everything that 10 you say is true, too. I just wish, Senator, 11 that you, like me and the other colleagues here, 12 would have the information so that you would 13 answer truthfully because I've never known you 14 to answer other than truthfully. 15 But let me ask you this question, 16 Senator. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: The good 23 Secretary of the Senate is here, and maybe he 4658 1 can provide some enlightenment. The Senate 2 appropriation of this year for postage was 3 increased to $4.5 million. For years, it's been 4 3.5 million. As you and I know, 1994 is an 5 election year. Is that increase of one million 6 in any way reflective of the fact that we're in 7 an election year? 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: You know, I 9 know that you don't mean it this way, and I 10 would hasten to add that I don't think there is 11 anybody in this house that would use anything 12 concerning the Senate mail or anything other 13 than properly. 14 Now, as I mentioned a few minutes 15 ago, when you submit this to the executive 16 branch in December, very often, there are going 17 to be increased costs when you really find out 18 what they are going to be. Also, we have been 19 underbudgeting that amount. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, so if 21 I understand what you are saying is that the 22 budgets that we passed for '93-94, '92-93, 23 actually understated the amount of mailing, and 4659 1 that we were spending more money for mailing. 2 Is that correct? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, and, of 4 course, that's been pointed out publicly. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. 6 Senator, I appreciate that because that's 7 exactly what we thought, that the budget under 8 stated the amount that was being spent for 9 mailing. 10 Let me, Senator, touch on 11 something that you raised that nobody in this 12 house would do anything improper. Senator, let 13 me just ask you. Do you think it's improper for 14 members to send out over a million pieces of 15 mail during their term when the rules of this 16 house provide that each member is to send out 17 three districtwide mailings and additional 18 mailings of 100,000 bulk. Do you think that's 19 improper? 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator, and 21 you know this, this is by no means personal to 22 you, to anybody on this side of the aisle or 23 anybody on this side of the aisle, but you know 4660 1 it's printed what is spent, and I don't think 2 anyone is going to be saying what is proper or 3 improper. I don't know the exact amount you are 4 talking about, and I think you are using the 5 wrong word here, "improper". 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter, are you asking Senator Stafford to 9 continue to yield? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: If my 14 distinguished North Country neighbor and our 15 distinguished chairman of Finance would continue 16 to yield, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm your 21 second home, Senator, and your summer, Senator. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right, and let 23 me tell you, the people up there love you as I 4661 1 do because you do a terrific job, in that area. 2 Now, Senator - 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: I notice that 4 was limited. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I 6 understand -- I understand that you are getting 7 up and you have to defend the budget that I 8 believe you didn't write, that you know about as 9 much as I do and you do it very ably, and I 10 don't mean this in any way, as you understand, 11 to be any attack on you. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I understand. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: But the issue 14 of the mailings I think is a very important one; 15 and, Senator, I heard you say you know that this 16 is printed or this is available, the information 17 as to mailings. Senator, prior to this year, 18 prior to the year 1993, was it possible to find 19 out, Senator? Was it made publicly available 20 how much each Senator sent out in mailing? 21 It wasn't; right? I mean we 22 don't have to play games with each other. 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, we don't! 4662 1 By all means, this is just you and I as far as 2 I'm concerned are visiting like we do at the 3 Essex County Fair. 1993 was the first year. No 4 question about it. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Well - 6 all right. Senator, but where -- I hope in that 7 part of the fair where there aren't, you know, 8 the cows and whatever they leave on the floor. 9 I want us to be in the part of the fair where 10 there are the flowers and things that bloom and 11 smell good. 12 Senator, finally, let let me just 13 -- well, two more questions if you'd be good 14 enough to yield, and you have been, as always, a 15 real gentleman. 16 I just want do confirm this and 17 try to get a reason from you. The original 18 print of the Legislative Budget and the 19 appropriation for the Senate provided $1,230,000 20 for equipment. Now, the bill that we have 21 before us which came out just a couple of hours 22 ago increased that appropriation by 50 percent 23 to $1,900,000. Could you tell us what 4663 1 additional or new equipment we're purchasing 2 with that increased appropriation $670 million? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. I'm sure 4 some has been purchased. I'm sure some has 5 not. But, Senator, as I pointed out earlier, 6 originally -- originally, when it was presented 7 in November, because it had to be presented by 8 December 1, then when we looked and saw exactly 9 what we needed, the increased costs, of course, 10 are there. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is 12 this for the purchase of the OMIS computer 13 system? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, as a 15 matter of fact. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, what, 17 Senator -- if the good Senator continues to 18 yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Stafford do you continue to yield? 21 He does. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: What is that 23 expenditure for? 4664 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: I certainly 2 will get that for you. Again, I think we're 3 going to find a good bit of it hasn't been 4 expended yet, but, you know, I'll get you that 5 documentation. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 7 want to say I hope it hasn't been expended 8 because we haven't passed a bill yet. And while 9 we do things a little loosely, I hope we're not 10 spending monies before - 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: We're being 12 nice to each other now. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: - 14 appropriations. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 16 President. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 18 Could we - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 20 Gentlemen. Gentlemen. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: First of 22 all - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4665 1 Stafford. Senator Stafford, please. Just a 2 minute. 3 There is an awful lot of noise in 4 the Chamber, number 1. You've been very patient 5 in trying to get through this dialogue. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: It's all the 7 visitors that are doing it. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I 9 understand that, Senator Stafford. But our 10 people who are recording all this wonderful 11 dialogue are having a difficult time hearing. 12 So can we continue to come 13 through the chair, please, and try to speak into 14 your microphones on your desk so the recorder 15 can, in fact, listen and record your comments. 16 Thank you. 17 Senator Leichter, are you asking 18 Senator Stafford to yield? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if you 20 would please, Senator. And just to put this in 21 the right context, we find that we have roughly 22 a 50 percent appropriation for equipment we're 23 purchasing. Now, you say, well, we found out 4666 1 equipment was more expensive. 2 Is it that we decided to purchase 3 additional equipment, or are you saying that 4 since the budget was prepared in November of 5 1993, the cost that have equipment went up by 50 6 percent. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Exactly. Due 8 to the fact that we're trying to -- we're trying 9 to make sure that we don't spend any more than 10 we have to. This is mostly replacement and, 11 yes, the costs have gone up. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: By 50 percent. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: It isn't 50, 14 is it? It's a third, 30 percent. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well - 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: And by the 17 way, I'm taking your -- excuse me, Mr. 18 President. 19 Mr. President. I'm taking 20 Senator Leichter at his word that the original 21 figure is correct. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter. 4667 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 2 President, if Senator Stafford will continue to 3 yield? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Stafford, do you yield? 6 Senator Stafford yields. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator, 8 the original appropriation in the initial print 9 was 1,230,000. 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's gone up 12 by 670,000, so that's an increase of 50 13 percent. I can't believe that there has been 14 such an increase in cost. It must be new 15 equipment that's being purchased. And my 16 question is what equipment are we talking 17 about? 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: (Discussion 19 with staff.) All right. Fine, a half. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter, apparently Senator Stafford did not 22 understand - 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I 4668 1 answered. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- or did 3 not hear your question. Would you repeat it, 4 please. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, 6 seriously. You asked -- I said it was a third, 7 and it is not a third. It is a third of the new 8 money, but it's half. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: And 50 percent 10 of the old money. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm sorry. 12 Right. Yes. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: My question 14 is, are we purchasing some additional 15 equipment? And if so, could you please tell us 16 what the equipment is, or are you claiming that 17 our initial estimate was off by 50 percent? 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't think 19 final decision probably has been made on some of 20 this. As you pointed out to me, the bill hasn't 21 been passed yet. But as soon as I get the exact 22 details on this, I certainly will make it 23 available. I told you that a great deal of it, 4669 1 most of it, is for replacement and that's what 2 it will be used for. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, thank 4 you. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm not going 9 to ask Senator Stafford any more. He's been, as 10 I said, more than patient. 11 Mr. President. We can go through 12 this budget, and we can ask a number of 13 questions of this sort. We can ask a lot of 14 questions, because the budget doesn't reveal 15 anything. And, you know, you can snicker about 16 how clever you are doing this, but really what 17 you are doing is cheating the taxpayers, because 18 you are failing to disclose how you are spending 19 money; and as I said, it's just wrong. 20 And let me just point out that 21 what really makes this even worse is that there 22 is a language in the bill, in the language bill 23 that we're going to come to, S.8598, which gives 4670 1 the power to the Majority Leader, and for the 2 Assembly to the Speaker, to shift any of the 3 appropriations. 4 So after we have this very 5 cursory budget -- it really shouldn't be called 6 a budget. It's more like a crib sheet. 7 The Majority Leader can shift any 8 appropriation he wants to. If he wants to take 9 money out of other than personal expenses and 10 use it for mailings, he can do it. It really 11 makes a total mockery of what is a non budget to 12 begin with. 13 And Mr. President, and my 14 colleagues, would we allow the executive to come 15 here for a state agency and say, okay, in 16 February I submitted a budget that we were going 17 to purchase some equipment and now it's going to 18 cost 50 percent more, but I can't tell you what 19 the equipment is. I can't tell you whether 20 we're talking of increased costs or whether 21 we're talking of additional expenditures. I 22 can't tell you whether we've already bought the 23 equipment, or maybe we'll decide to buy the 4671 1 equipment somewhere along the line. There would 2 be an uproar. We would have people on their 3 feet saying this is irresponsible. This is 4 wrong. This is why this is known as a state 5 that spends. This is known as a state that 6 taxes. We shouldn't be doing this. It's just 7 wrong. 8 I think we have made our point. 9 I'm hope we've made the point. I'm sorry that, 10 once again, you are just brazenly pushing this 11 sort of a budget through. But I'll tell you 12 it's not the last that you've heard of it in 13 this year. It will be an issue in this 14 election. We will take it to the voters of this 15 state and let them decide whether you are acting 16 responsibly, and we're going to raise it year-in 17 and year-out until finally this Legislature acts 18 responsibly, acts in a proper, democratic, 19 lawful manner and puts forward a detailed budget 20 and let's the people of this state know how 21 their money is being spent. 22 Mr. President and my colleagues. 23 I urge anyone to vote against this bill because 4672 1 this is phoney. It's a fraud. It besmirches 2 this Legislature. It's an insult to the people 3 of the State of New York. It deserves to be 4 defeated. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 6 will read the last section. 7 Senator Markowitz. 8 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. Thank 9 you. I have a question, if I may, to Senator 10 Stafford. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stafford, do you yield? 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 yields. 16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator, just 17 for my own edification. I don't get an 18 opportunity too often when it comes to 19 Legislative Budgets to ask questions because, 20 once it's a proved, frankly, that's it. 21 Putting aside the fact that some 22 of us are chair people of committees, namely, 23 Republican Majority have greater 4673 1 responsibilities certainly as soon as you hold 2 the majority; and, therefore, obviously you do 3 require to some degree additional staffs and 4 things like that. 5 The one thing that I have never 6 been able to understand in 16 years is that 7 since all of us represent the same number, 8 basically, of constituents in each of our 9 districts, why is it that Republican members of 10 our house receive newsletters that are 11 by 14, 11 four pages, three times a year at least, and 12 Democrats only receive one four-pager and two 13 two-pagers? 14 What I'm trying to say is that, 15 to me, I think it's not the most important issue 16 and yet it is, because to me it's really a slap 17 in the face, frankly, to those of us, all of us 18 that represent the same-sized districts; and 19 that is, here's a glaring example where we have 20 a right to communicate with our district 21 constituents every much as you do, why do we 22 receive so significantly less in terms of our 23 legislative reports? I never really understood 4674 1 it, Senator. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: To put it in 3 perspective, there are some of us on this side 4 of the aisle that send fewer newsletters than 5 allowed. I think that's be a discussion that 6 maybe hasn't been -- hasn't really been 7 explained, and I think when we do and we are 8 doing it, I think we'll see that it isn't that 9 much different. 10 I'm certainly very willing to sit 11 down with you -- I take you very seriously. I'm 12 very willing to sit down with you and have you 13 explain just exactly the way you see it, and we 14 can move from there. 15 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: If I may, 16 Senator, and just so briefly on this -- and I 17 realize this is not the most important item on 18 this budget for sure, but I know in Washington, 19 friends that I know that are both Democrats and 20 Republicans, recognizing that the Democrats in 21 the House receive significantly more staff, 22 mainly because they have much greater 23 responsibilities than those in the minority to a 4675 1 large degree, but when it comes to mailing and 2 when it comes to legislative reports, they all 3 get the same allocations, and I would like to 4 see that happen. I think it's the only fair 5 thing to do in this legislative budget. 6 Hopefully, we're going to pass it now, but this 7 is really within the purview of the Majority 8 Leader. So I hope that will happen. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 10 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President. Will Senator Stafford yield to just 13 one quick question -- actually two quick 14 questions? 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Stafford, do you yield to two quick questions? 18 Senator Stafford Yields. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: You and I are 20 going to have to keep it light, the way we have 21 it here, you know. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I know. I 23 may have misjudged that earlier today, Senator, 4676 1 and I apologize for that if I did not do it in 2 the right vein. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I 4 apologize. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The bill that 6 is currently before this house, does it take the 7 guidelines that were announced by the Majority 8 Leader with respect to mailings and incorporate 9 them into law? 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: I understand 11 your question now. No, it's not in law. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any 13 reason for that, Senator, that it isn't 14 incorporated into law? 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: A legislative 16 body -- and I'm going to try to explain this, 17 and this is by no means attempting to make light 18 of your question. I think you will find in any 19 legislative body, whether it's in another city 20 down there, I guess near Virginia, that doesn't 21 do half the work we do, or whether it's any 22 other state, I think you will find that the 23 makeup of a legislature -- or whether it's a 4677 1 county legislature -- if that chairman of the 2 county legislature doesn't have really the 3 power, it has to be fair, but have the 4 wherewithal -- wherewithal is better than power 5 -- everyone behind him or her and have the 6 flexibility, legislatures just can't function. 7 I might add and maybe I'm being a 8 bit presumptuous here, but you will find that 9 there are some other legislatures -- and I'm not 10 going to get any more specific because I have no 11 right to. I haven't spent time down there. I 12 just read. But if you are going to get things 13 done, that consensus has to come together and 14 there has to be decision. 15 I would suggest again, in the 16 spirit of your question -- you served in the 17 county legislative. I would suggest -- is it 18 Speaker Valone? Is that his name? 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, that's his 20 name. A very fine Speaker. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: He is a very 22 fine person. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Very fine person. 4678 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Did his 2 responsibilities and abilities to be Speaker of 3 the Council, when they went through all these 4 changes, was, frankly, the speaker more powerful 5 or less powerful? 6 Now, if you don't know that, I 7 certainly won't -- you know. But I think you'll 8 find he was -- in all fairness, I would say he 9 is much more powerful to get the job done, and 10 this is what this is all about. 11 I'm sure we're willing to sit 12 down and discuss. I frankly compliment you on 13 your -- let me use the right word now -- hard 14 work of what you are doing. But, again, I think 15 we have to be fair here in the Majority, and I 16 think this is where we are. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, Mr. 18 President, if I can just - 19 I guess my question, Senator 20 Stafford, was -- the Majority Leader has 21 announced guidelines on the mailing practices of 22 this body and has indicated, as best I can tell, 23 a determination to abide by those limitations. 4679 1 My question is, if that's the case, why aren't 2 those limitations enacted into law with all of 3 the expenditures that are contained in our 4 budget? 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I think, 6 again, it reflects ability and maybe makes some 7 changes where needed. 8 But I'd also say this, Senator, 9 and I think this has to be emphasized. When the 10 day comes that any member of this body makes a 11 commitment, guidelines or whatever you want to 12 call it, and we can't keep -- we can't rely on 13 that person keeping his or her word, then we're 14 not going to have the Senate that we have here 15 today. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If I can just 20 have a moment, Mr. President. If I could ask 21 just one more question, Mr. President. Then 22 I'll discuss the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4680 1 Stafford, do you yield to one more question? 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What, if 4 anything, is contained in this bill that 5 prohibits transfers between accounts - 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: What's this? 7 I'm sorry, I missed it. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- or 9 controls transfers between accounts? Who has 10 the authority to transfer money between the 11 accounts that are labeled in this document and 12 other accounts that are labeled in this 13 document? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: The Majority 15 Leader and the Speaker. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And what 17 accounting procedures do they follow when those 18 transfers are made? 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, we now 20 are -- this is something -- as a matter of fact, 21 it's very interesting. The first meeting I went 22 to of the -- what is it called now? Of the - 23 the Joint Audit Committee, and I saw what we 4681 1 were paying the accountants that we never had 2 been doing. And, frankly, I'm not one to speak 3 out as much as I should, but I guarantee I did 4 then. We have accountants. They are the -- is 5 it "Big Eight" still? -- "Big Six." 6 (Laughter.) 7 We've had some mergers, as with 8 everything else. Won't be long, we'll be 9 breaking it all up again. 10 But they audit, and the audit is 11 public. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If Senator 17 Stafford will yield to just one more final 18 question. I apologize. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Stafford yields. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, does 23 this budget contain funds appropriated for the 4682 1 OMIS system, and could you tell me what that 2 system is and what it does? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Whenever we 4 get into computers, and believe you me -- I 5 again don't want to be light, but you just have 6 to see my 18-year-old and my 17-year-old and my 7 14-year-old talk to me about computers, and 8 there is nobody that's more disgusted than they 9 are. 10 (Laughter.) 11 This is not my field. I share 12 with you -- I share with you that this is for 13 replacements. That's what we were talking 14 about. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Now, will 17 there be any other purchases? In all fairness. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President. My understanding of the OMIS system 22 is that it's a very sophisticated computer 23 system that allows targeting of particular mail 4683 1 delivery and mail production systems. 2 My question is does this budget 3 provide for enhancement of the OMIS system, 4 number 1; and, number 2, if Senator Stafford 5 will continue to yield, will those services be 6 made available to all members of the Senate on 7 an equal basis? 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: That 9 decision -- in all fairness, that decision has 10 not been made. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess, Mr. 12 President, I don't mean to make light of this, 13 and I certainly think these are critical 14 questions that we would ask in any budgeting 15 process. 16 With all due respect to the 17 esteemed Chairman of the Finance Committee, I 18 guess I just look at this documents and don't 19 see that it contains the answers that I need in 20 order to be able to vote in favor of this. 21 I'm concerned because the mail 22 guidelines are not contained in this budget. 23 They have been violated. 4684 1 And with all due respect, again, 2 to the Chairman of Finance and his long 3 tradition in this body, while I would love to 4 believe that if the Senate says it will do it, 5 it will abide by its own rules, I think we have 6 ample evidence that that has not been the case. 7 I think we've produced that 8 evidence. In addition, I'm concerned about the 9 OMIS system and the development of sophisticated 10 computer operations paid for by the taxpayers of 11 this state that is going to be used to 12 facilitate a mail campaign in the 1992 election 13 year which will be one million dollars greater 14 than it was last year, which has a 15 reappropriation in this budget. 16 On page 20, for nonpersonal 17 services, we're reappropriating $3.4 million, 18 which to the best I can tell are transfers that 19 can be used by the Majority Leader for all that 20 postage and all that mail which makes us all 21 look so good in the eyes of our constituents and 22 our voters that they never seem to want to 23 change the horses. 4685 1 It seems to me that there is a 2 lot underlying this budget that suggests that 3 it's not going to be used for equal purposes by 4 every member of this house, and that the 5 temptation to use the taxpayer money for 6 campaign purposes in a system of campaign 7 financing that doesn't have the people's 8 knowledge nor their approval, Mr. President, 9 makes it impossible for me to vote or condone 10 this budget. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 14 much, Mr. President. I rise simply because of 15 the colloquy which occurred between Senator 16 Stafford and Senator Markowitz, where Senator 17 Stafford indicated that he might be amenable to 18 sitting down and discussing what I hopefully 19 correctly characterize as "considering equities" 20 regarding certain abilities to utilize the 21 services and the wherewithal of the Senate; and 22 it reminded me that on occasion when I went down 23 to put on a TV show, for want of a better way of 4686 1 characterizing, and found that members on the 2 other side may have greater access to the 3 television studio in terms of frequency and 4 length of their broadcast than I, which reminded 5 me of when I served in the Congress of the 6 United States, it was very different. 7 In the Congress of the United 8 States, everyone had the same budget, and the 9 distinctions were made as you rose in terms of 10 power in the house. I have no problem with 11 that, meaning if you all are in the majority, 12 remain here until the day I leave this body, 13 that's fine, if your ability to be chair 14 persons distinguishes you in terms of the 15 monetary stipend and myself serving in the 16 minority. But it does bother me that we all 17 came here the same. We're all born. We'll all 18 die. We all were elected to office. That's for 19 sure. And we will remain in office as long as 20 the people send us -- basically, the same 21 number, about 300,000. 22 And I don't understand why in 23 this house and in the other house there has to 4687 1 be such a distinction in terms of the budget of 2 each office of the Senate, meaning that the 10th 3 Senatorial District should have just as much in 4 terms of the dollars to run that office as any 5 other office in the Senate, any other Senatorial 6 District. 7 And I would hope, Senator 8 Stafford, in keeping with your suggestion or 9 your agreement to Senator Markowitz' concern 10 that there might be an ability, not from my 11 level but from the level of leadership 12 comparable to yourself, to sit down and to 13 discuss this creation of equity. 14 And, you know, this isn't said 15 lightly, and I would hope that some serious 16 consideration would be given to that. Because 17 under, as I have mentioned months ago, at least 18 two months ago, it is my impression that under 19 the "one man one vote" rule that we are not 20 allowed, those of us in the African-American 21 community, to serve our people as prescribed by 22 the federal government because there is such an 23 inequity. 4688 1 And I would hope that wise heads 2 and gentlemanly and gentlewomanly approaches 3 would allow us to move towards correcting that 4 disparity. 5 Thank you very much, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 8 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. I 10 wonder if Senator Stafford would yield for a 11 brief question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Stafford, do you yield? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Keep it - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Stafford yields. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 18 Stafford, I am deeply gratified to hear your 19 comments specifically to Senator Markowitz, 20 earlier, and I want to make sure that I have it 21 clear in my mind what you said relative to the 22 difference in newsletters. 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, I didn't 4689 1 say anything about the difference, but I would 2 first say that Senator Waldon was very kind to 3 me, because I was just using hyperbole when I 4 said that we do more work. But my point was, as 5 the chairmen and as the leaders of the houses 6 have not had the power that they had, frankly, 7 to get things done, it's been much more 8 difficult. This is what this is. 9 What I said was that I certainly 10 would be more than pleased to sit down with 11 anyone, and if -- I did say that some of the 12 inequities might not be as inequitable as some 13 of us might think because I think you would be 14 very surprised that a number of people -- the 15 numbers over here. I certainly would sit down, 16 and I would be more than happy to discuss it, 17 and I certainly would with you. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 19 Senator Stafford. Can Senator Stafford yield to 20 one more question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Stafford yields. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: On the same 4690 1 train of thought. Thank you. 2 Could you clarify for me what you 3 said about the dichotomy in the numbers of 4 newsletters and how that figured into this 5 equation - 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, first, I 7 didn't use the word - 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- that you 9 were hypothetically discussing with Senator 10 Markowitz. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, I 12 didn't use the word dichotomy. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No, you 14 didn't. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Because that 16 is - 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's my 18 word. It just came right into my head. I don't 19 know why. But it's a good word and I'd use it 20 again before the night is out. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Difference. 22 Difference. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. I 4691 1 will accept difference as an excellent word, 2 too. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I said the 4 difference might not be as much as some of us 5 would think, and I would be very willing to sit 6 down and discuss the matter, any matter. 7 Whether there's inequities in that or not is not 8 said lightly, either. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Were you 10 talking in reference to number of newsletters? 11 Did you say something about not using as many of 12 the newsletters in the allotments; and, 13 therefore, the larger size paper -- I believe 14 that was Senator Markowitz' question, was about 15 larger size paper. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I didn't say 17 anything about larger size paper. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 19 Markowitz was concerned about the fact - 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Now, 21 seriously, if there is differences, I certainly 22 will be more than happy to sit down and discuss 23 it. 4692 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Okay. Well, 2 I'm glad that you raised the issue about the 3 differences. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Hoffmann, are you asking Senator Stafford to 6 continue to yield? 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I am. Yes, I 8 am. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford, do you yield? 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, I 12 didn't raise it, though. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you 14 asking Senator Stafford to yield? 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'm asking 16 Senator Stafford to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stafford, do you yield? 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: But I didn't 20 raise the issue. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Stafford yields. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Well, Senator 4693 1 Stafford, let me just rephrase the question 2 earlier then, because I recall your making a 3 comment about some people not mailing as many 4 newsletters as other people had mailed. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I - 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Therefore -- I 7 see Steve Sloan, the Secretary, our very able 8 Secretary, commenting with some recollection, 9 and I know you have just taken a whole volley of 10 questions -- in very good humor, I might add, 11 and I intend this to be in the same vein of good 12 humor, but an earnest concern that I understand 13 the actual principle at play here. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: I understand. 15 Well, first, I was pointing out that you will 16 find that on this side there probably aren't as 17 many newsletters as one would think. That's my 18 point. I said that. Then I said I would be 19 more than happy to sit down and discuss any of 20 these issues. 21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: All right. 22 Thank you, Senator Stafford. 23 Would Senator Stafford yield for 4694 1 one additional question, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Stafford yields. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: We're coming 5 to some closure here, Senator Stafford, and I 6 feel very good about this exchange, by the way. 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: That's a word 8 "closure"! Boy, difficult. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I think I 10 understand the gist of this discussion here, and 11 it appears to me -- and, now, this is just my 12 assumption and forgive me if I'm making a great 13 leap here, but it appears that some Senators and 14 you mentioned on your side of the aisle who have 15 chosen to not mail as many newsletters are, 16 therefore, entitled to either a larger size 17 newsletter - 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- or some 20 type of compensation? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I did not. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'm not 23 correct in that? 4695 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, I did not. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: What was the 3 reference relative to not mailing as many 4 newsletters? 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: I just said 6 I'm not sure the inequities are as much as some 7 people would think, and I would be more than 8 pleased to discuss that. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Okay. Well, 10 what I would want - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Hoffmann on the bill? 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No, I'm asking 14 Senator Stafford to yield for one additional 15 question because I was apparently on the wrong 16 track. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stafford yields. 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Now that I'm 20 corrected, I want to make sure that I do bring 21 this to some - 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator, you 23 were not corrected. We were just clarifying the 4696 1 issue. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Oh, thank 3 you. Well, in order to help me clarify this and 4 for us to have a further fruitful discussion on 5 this subject. 6 This is the situation that I find 7 myself in. I have not mailed a newsletter in 8 four years and not too long ago -- well, I guess 9 it's about two years ago, I made a request to 10 the Majority Leader that because I had not 11 mailed any newsletters that, clearly, there was 12 a tremendous savings in the 48th Senate 13 District, and I wondered if I could use some of 14 that savings to upgrade the computer facilities 15 that are available to my very hard-working 16 staff. The tremendous amount of mail that was 17 coming in, particularly with our perpetually 18 late budgets, compelled them to write many 19 pieces of correspondence; and since we do not 20 have the laser printers that are available to 21 Republican Senators, I simply requested that 22 some of this savings in unexpended newsletter 23 allowance be transferred to allow the purchase 4697 1 of laser printers and upgraded computer 2 equipment. 3 I'm sure you can appreciate how 4 very disappointed I was when the Majority Leader 5 indicated, through Mr. Sloan, that it was not 6 considered to be an acceptable arrangement, and 7 I think there was a reference to it being a 8 precedent. I don't understand what a precedent 9 meant. 10 But I would ask you, Senator 11 Stafford, would you be willing to revisit that 12 issue in the interest of fairness, not to me as 13 the Senator in the 48th District, but to the 14 constituents that I represent so that we could 15 better serve their needs? 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: We're getting 17 a little on the edge of good humor. But yes. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 19 Senator Stafford. 20 On the bill. While I do 21 appreciate Senator Stafford patience, I also 22 understand why this rather specific request 23 might be a little bit difficult to accept and 4698 1 particularly when it's couched with the reality 2 that such a request made in a very logical and 3 appropriate way was denied, summarily denied, 4 and handled in I think kind of an unprofessional 5 and uncollegial way. 6 I mean, after all, it's not like 7 we're looking to have gold plate on the walls of 8 our district offices when we just want to 9 increase our ability to respond to the needs of 10 our constituents, but this is one minority 11 Senator who recognizes the state's terrible 12 budgetary problems, sought on my own to try to 13 economize by cutting back on the mailings. 14 And having done no newsletters in 15 four years, I think it's perfectly appropriate 16 to make the request that some of that savings be 17 used in a way that's considered more appropriate 18 to the needs of my office. 19 And since there appears to be no 20 other mechanism to make something like this 21 happen, I am very, very satisfied tonight to 22 hear that we appear to be moving in the right 23 direction with the personal commitment by the 4699 1 Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, our 2 esteemed colleague, Senator Stafford, gentleman 3 that he is, willing to make his own personal 4 involvement in this issue. 5 But I still want to register for 6 the record that I believe this should be a 7 matter of utmost concern for standardization 8 within the Senate rules and procedures so that 9 it does not have to occupy our time at the hour 10 of eight minutes past 2:00 a.m. on July - 11 excuse me, April -- I'm getting ahead of 12 myself. What month is this? June 8. Now we're 13 at June 8, but it's still June 7 according to 14 the calendar. 15 Just so we all understand it, 16 this is not the logical way that this type of 17 business should be conducted. I hope the record 18 will reflect that while I'm pleased that there 19 is some progress this evening, that there is a 20 much better way that this could be handled, and 21 I hope that all of my colleagues will be looking 22 for an entirely different budget, more on the 23 lines of the one that Senator Leichter and 4700 1 Senator Dollinger had suggested in amendment 2 form, that we could have next year. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 6 act shall take effect immediately and shall be 7 deemed to have been in full force and effect as 8 of April 1. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 1146 are 14 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, 15 Nanula, Oppenheimer, and Pataki. Ayes 53. 16 Nays 7. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President 21 can we take up Calendar 1150. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read. 4701 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1150, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 3 Bill Number 8598-A, an act to amend the 4 Legislative Law, the State Finance Law, in 5 relation to incorporating therein several 6 provisions relating to the operation and 7 administration of the Legislature. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford for an explanation. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Present, the Secretary indicates there is. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 16 accept the message. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion to 18 accept the message. All those in favor signify 19 by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Opposed nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 The message is accepted. 4702 1 Senator Stafford for an 2 explanation. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: I think I can 4 clear this up. 5 This bill includes legislation 6 which we would have put in the budget if we 7 could have, but we can't because of the bankers' 8 case. This is the same wording that we passed 9 in the legislative budget in past years. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President, is there an amendment at the desk? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger, we're looking. Yes, we have an 16 amendment at the desk. Do you waive its reading 17 and ask an opportunity to explain it? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 19 President, and I'll be brief as well. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Dollinger to explain his amendment. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, this is an amendment that has been 4703 1 brought forth in a number of contexts before, 2 via motions to discharge, and these are a series 3 of bills that, in my judgment, would substan 4 tially strengthen the process of our own 5 budgeting and bring us into the latter part of 6 the 20th Century where our constituents want us 7 to be. 8 It does a number of things. One, 9 it creates an itemized legislative budget. It 10 creates the language for an itemized legislative 11 budget as proposed by my colleagues, Senator 12 Leichter and Senator Hoffmann. It also creates 13 a quarterly accounting. 14 You've all seen Senator Jones 15 stand here and wave the book from Congress, the 16 little brown bound book that's about an inch or 17 an inch and a half thick that lists all the 18 itemized expenditures for each member of the 19 Congress, all 435 of them. They can account for 20 435 members of the House and a hundred members 21 of the Senate, but we can't give our taxpayers 22 the accounting for the 61 members of this body. 23 In addition, Mr. President, this 4704 1 establishes mailing limitations of changing the 2 dates for the effectiveness of mail prior to 3 either a primary or a general election from 30 4 days to 45 days, enacting into law a prohibition 5 on using this mail just before an election 6 campaign which I think there's ample evidence 7 has already been done in this house. That's a 8 bill that's been produced by Senator Jones and 9 has been talked about before. 10 In addition, it would enact into 11 law, the current restrictions on three news 12 letters and 100,000 pieces of bulk mail each 13 year, plus an additional $100,000 for mailings 14 by the Senate Majority Leader, the Minority 15 Leader and Senate Administration. 16 In addition, the bill would also 17 establish a Senate -- or excuse me. The amend 18 ment, Mr. President, would establish a Senate 19 Management Committee, which would be a 20 bipartisan panel of three Republican Senators 21 and three Democratic Senators to monitor and 22 enforce the Senate mail guidelines. 23 I'd point out that this is 4705 1 extremely comparable to the independent advisory 2 commission that currently overseas the mailing 3 process in the United States House of 4 Representatives and would bring the same kinds 5 of standards that are part of our federal 6 practice into state practice. 7 In addition, would do one -- the 8 amendment would do two other things, Mr. Presi 9 dent. One is, it would establish a Conference 10 Committee. That is, it would require the 11 appointment of conference Committees to meet 12 publicly to iron out inconsistencies in bills 13 that are passed by the Assembly and Senate and 14 rather than the closed door, back door, back 15 room negotiations that currently not only lead 16 to this budget and this entire budget process 17 which dominates all the other bills that come in 18 front of this house. That's very similar to the 19 Conference Committee bill that the Minority 20 Leader, Senator Ohrenstein, has sponsored in the 21 past. 22 Lastly, Mr. President, and 23 perhaps it's appropriate to end on this note 4706 1 because it seems to me that Senator Leichter 2 started us off with the "Dracula" budget that is 3 before us, that budget that comes out of the 4 dark, prefers to stay in the dark and never 5 wants to see the light of day. What this 6 amendment would finally do is bring the bright 7 light of sunshine through the Freedom of In 8 formation Law into the halls of this chamber and 9 into the spending that occurs under this budget 10 and make the state Freedom of Information Law 11 applicable to the state Legislature so that we 12 who make the laws would be judged by the same 13 standards that every other elected official is 14 bound to in this state, that every other 15 government works according to in this state and 16 that the $170 million that is spent on this 17 Legislature will be available and the 18 information on those expenditures will be 19 available to the public. 20 It's time we took Dracula out 21 into the bright light of sunshine. That's what 22 this amendment is intended to do, Mr. 23 President. It incorporates the good government 4707 1 principles that should guide this body in the 2 next year and in the next century. I urge its 3 adoption. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 5 is on the amendment. All those in favor signify 6 by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed nay. 9 (Response of "Nay." ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 amendment is defeated. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Party vote in the 13 negative. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Party vote in 15 the affirmative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record - 20 THE SECRETARY: 26, nays 34. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 amendment is defeated. 23 Read the last section. 4708 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 7 the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 1150 are 10 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, 11 Oppenheimer, Pataki. Also Senator Leichter. 12 Also Senator Nanula. Ayes 53, nays 7. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 may we take up Calendar 1153. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1153. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1153, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 22 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 23 11860 and substitute it for the identical Third 4709 1 Reading 1153. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 3 Substitution is ordered. 4 Question is on the resolution. 5 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 6 ((Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The resolution is adopted. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 12 1149. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read Calendar Number 1149. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1149, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 18 11861 and substitute it for the identical Third 19 Reading 1149. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4710 1 is there a message of necessity at the desk on 2 this bill? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 tells me there is, Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 I move that we accept the message. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 8 to accept the message. All those in favor 9 signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The message is accepted. The 14 Clerk will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall -- Section 4. This act shall take 17 effect November 15th, 1995. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 4711 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Hoffmann. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. Mr. 5 President, when the bill preceding the one that 6 just passed was read, it was read -- the short 7 title was not read. There was a reference to a 8 resolution, and I know that some of my col 9 leagues and I had wanted to have an opportunity 10 to have an explanation and some discussion. 11 I wonder if we could move to 12 reconsider and take it up in a bit more orderly 13 fashion. Bear in mind that we do not have 14 calendars in front of us that indicate what bill 15 we are debating or not debating as the case may 16 be. It puts us at somewhat of a disadvantage if 17 we're only able to hear the short title and when 18 the short title itself is not read, then we are 19 at a total disadvantage, so I would like to move 20 for reconsideration on whatever calendar number 21 the bill immediately before the last bill was 22 read. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Moved by 4712 1 Senator Hoffmann to reconsider the vote by which 2 Calendar Number 1153 passed the house. Clerk 3 will call the roll on reconsideration. 4 (The Secretary called the roll on 5 reconsideration. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is before the house. 9 Senator Hoffmann. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explanation, 11 Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Stafford, an explanation has been asked of 14 Calendar Number 1153 by Senator Hoffmann. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Once again, I 16 think, Senator, that it is a very good point, a 17 valid point that this should be discussed. It's 18 something a lot of us have talked a lot about, 19 and this is a concurrent resolution. Of course, 20 it will be passed by hopefully this Legislature 21 and then the next Legislature that's elected and 22 then voted -- voted upon. 23 Now, I don't mean to be overly 4713 1 brief, but I am advised and I've looked at it, 2 and I also wanted to just make this point, that 3 I've tried to look at every piece of legislation 4 that's gone through here. Someone said I hadn't 5 looked at it, and I wanted to make it clear - 6 it was not you -- that I had. But it stops all 7 back door borrowing, it stops it and it stops 8 one shots, that title which all of us have been 9 concerned about, and it's time we do it. No 10 question about it and, as we all know, we don't 11 even have to talk about it. We just stop it, 12 and next when we do incur debt, we have revenue 13 bonds which have a tax to pay them when it is 14 passed, and that's important. 15 The interest is capped at 4.4 16 percent on personal income if you buy these 17 bonds. My counsels are arguing. As soon as 18 they decide here, I will share with you -- I was 19 wrong. It is not the tax, but the amount of 20 revenue bonds that can be issued is capped at 21 4.4 percent of the state personal income. I 22 wanted to make sure that that was accurate. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4714 1 Hoffmann. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: On the bill, 3 Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Hoffmann on the bill. 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I appreciate 7 Senator Stafford's explanation, and I recognize 8 the obvious difficulty in being totally familiar 9 with all of this complex financial legislation 10 coming out at 2:22 a.m. on July -- June, tell me 11 that again, but we know it's not April and it's 12 certainly not March -- on June 7th or 8th, take 13 your pick. 14 What concerns me is the fact that 15 this particular piece of legislation does not 16 need to be passed tonight. It's one that cannot 17 become law until it is passed by the voters of 18 this state in a referendum. Obviously between 19 now and whenever we adjourn this session for the 20 year, we have numerous opportunities available 21 to us to take up this issue. 22 A matter as serious as one which 23 attempts to clean up the state's back door 4715 1 borrowing should not be rushed to the floor at 2 2:20 a.m. in the middle of budget deliberations 3 on things that affect this year's budget alone, 4 and I for one cannot understand why we are not 5 proud enough of this piece of legislation to 6 have public hearings on it. 7 Let's give the people out there 8 who have criticized us so roundly an opportunity 9 to hear this work product before we take action 10 on it and make sure that they do agree that 11 we're on the right track. I mean, after all, we 12 know that we have lost confidence of many of the 13 taxpayers in this state. There are many 14 businesses that would -- would scoff at us no 15 matter what we did, but if this is, in fact, 16 such an important piece of reform fiscal 17 legislation, then why are we doing it under the 18 cover of darkness? 19 I'm afraid that the only reason 20 for doing it now is the same reason that was 21 operative last year when we passed a similar but 22 more seriously flawed measure. This is the 23 second time around for a so-called debt reform 4716 1 bill. Last year the bill that was presented to 2 us showed up in the middle of April and it was 3 presented to us just before this Legislature 4 raided a dedicated fund, a "locked box" fund. 5 It was referred to by some people as the "stop 6 us before we borrow again" bill, and this one 7 claims that we would never do again what we were 8 about to do that night. After we raided the 9 locked box to pay debt service on bonds floated 10 by the Thruway Authority and the Triborough 11 Bridge and Tunnel Authority and other selected 12 transportation projects, we said in 1993 in 13 April that we would not do that type of 14 borrowing again, and we outlined a series of 15 ways in which we were going to clean up our 16 act. It was presented to us in a -- at least to 17 me and to most of the Democrats I assume -- it 18 was presented to us in a closed door party 19 conference, not in a Finance Committee meeting, 20 not in a public hearing. It was presented to us 21 in the middle of night in a political arena. 22 We were told at the time that the 23 Comptroller liked this bill, Comptroller Regan 4717 1 at the time. We were also told, at least I was 2 told when I asked a question, I remember because 3 I was very concerned, what the raters thought of 4 the bill and I know that some of my colleagues 5 on the other side of the aisle -- Senator 6 Stafford is nodding his head -- will remember 7 that we were all convinced that this has been 8 all negotiated and was satisfactory to people 9 like the raters who were very worried that we 10 had dropped to the very lowest in the nation or 11 the second lowest rating in the nation according 12 to who was making that announcement today. 13 I stayed up with a couple members 14 of my staff throughout the night reading through 15 the bill and trying to sort out what it did and 16 didn't do, and I was appalled when I actually 17 read the fine print, because I discovered that 18 the -- that the proposal that we passed last 19 year would actually allow the state to double 20 its debt without voter approval, and I want to 21 remind all of my colleagues that we right now 22 have some $20 billion in debt in this state. 23 We have a small surplus this year 4718 1 which we could have used to pay off some of this 2 debt and in many businesses that would have been 3 the logical business decision to make in a 4 profitable year, to pay off some of the debt, 5 reduce operating costs, but we're not doing 6 that. For some reason, we continue to spend 7 when we have a little surplus and we accrue this 8 tremendous, or tolerate this tremendous amount 9 of debt, and now what we're doing is really 10 playing a small numbers game that will reassure 11 people to some extent that we're not going to 12 engage in continued growth debt, but this is not 13 in any way a serious attempt to clean up our 14 debt problems. 15 The Comptroller had presented a 16 proposal earlier this year that would have had a 17 cap on the percentage of personal income that 18 can be used for debt and would have said that 19 there would have been no economic emergency 20 under which a -- a non-voter approved bond could 21 be floated, but I understand that, from a very 22 -- from the very limited information I have 23 available tonight -- I only received it this 4719 1 afternoon when the bill finally reached my hands 2 -- that this measure, if I understand it 3 correctly, will allow the -- the definition of 4 economic emergency to -- to circumvent the cap 5 that is within the fund. 6 The economic emergency is defined 7 as a three percent decline in employment which 8 obviously is a -- is a reasonable enough 9 emergency to require some action, but I'm not 10 sure that the taxpayers of this state would find 11 even that to be an appropriate reason for us to 12 circumvent a rule that prevents back door 13 borrowing. I think that many of them would 14 still see this as back door borrowing. 15 One of the other things that I'm, 16 frankly, at a very big loss to understand is why 17 the Legislature in accepting or devising this 18 particular plan, seems to have opted out from 19 any kind of long-term oversight. Comptroller 20 McCall, in presenting his plan to us, had a - 21 had a proposal that the Governor would submit a 22 detailed multi-year plan. The Governor would 23 hold public hearings and the Legislature would 4720 1 have to act on a five-year plan. 2 That has all been reduced to the 3 Governor submitting a capital plan. What has 4 happened to the concept of public hearings and 5 what has happened to the concept of the 6 Legislature exercising its responsibilities for 7 reasonable fiscal oversight and having the 8 responsibility to implement a five-year plan? 9 I believe that that's a 10 responsibility that we have accepted as members 11 of this Legislature. I believe it is not one 12 from which we should be allowed to abdicate 13 tonight in the interest of political expediency 14 just so we can claim in press releases tomorrow 15 that we did some debt reform. Therefore, this 16 budget is not as bad as it was or perhaps being 17 as late as it is, we should not be castigated so 18 much because at least we did something called 19 debt reform. 20 I think this is an inadequate 21 debt reform plan. If it is an adequate plan, it 22 deserves a public hearing and at the very least 23 it deserves to be discussed by daylight, and it 4721 1 deserves to be presented to the people of this 2 state so that we can have their input well in 3 advance of having to take a vote on it. 4 It is not in any way able to 5 become law. It's a Constitutional Amendment. 6 It cannot become law until it is passed by this 7 and another separately elected Legislature, so 8 it cannot become law until 1995, the fall of 9 1995 following a public referendum. So there 10 was absolutely no urgency for us to vote on this 11 bill tonight. 12 So I would ask Senator Stafford 13 and Senator Present to please seriously 14 reconsider the loss of confidence that the 15 taxpayers of the state have in us when we behave 16 in this manner, and I would ask you to consider 17 the possibility of withdrawing this measure 18 tonight so that we could debate it following 19 public hearings in a more timely fashion over 20 the next few weeks. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Jones. 4722 1 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I, too, 2 would like to speak on this bill. 3 First of all, let me -- let me 4 just go back to my old school teacher days and 5 the jokes that are always told about keep doing 6 something until you get it right. Well, we did 7 something again, but I have to say we still 8 don't have it right, in my opinion. 9 It was mentioned at the Finance 10 Committee today that no one was interested, 11 there was some hearing held in New York City on 12 this. Well, probably my invitation got lost in 13 the mail or something. I was not at that 14 hearing. However, I have been interested for 15 the entire year. I did have a hearing myself on 16 it. The Comptroller was at the hearing. I have 17 been in contact with him on debt reform and it's 18 an issue that is very important to me. 19 I think we did look pretty 20 foolish last year. I've again reread many of 21 the articles that were written after our last 22 debt reform attempt and, you know, the holes 23 they talked about. Well, this definitely does 4723 1 plug up a few of them but, in my opinion, there 2 are still holes in the plan. 3 We did -- we had it capped out at 4 1 percent, but we've let it climb again to 4 5 percent. Again, it's on new -- new debt and 6 here we are with the enormous debt that we're 7 sitting here looking at now. The exceptions are 8 still there, and I personally don't believe 9 there should be any. We -- I think all of our 10 long-term debt should be voter approved. 11 Again, I have to agree with 12 Senator Hoffmann, this is too serious an issue 13 and, in my opinion, too important to the voters 14 out there that it needs to be taken lightly. We 15 should have held it off. We should have put 16 more effort into it. I applaud both the 17 Comptroller and the Governor's efforts to at 18 least try to get this out here to discuss, but I 19 still think we've left a lot of things that need 20 to be fixed if we are really going to get on a 21 sound fiscal plan for this state for the 22 future. 23 So I would concur with Senator 4724 1 Hoffmann that this could be put off, and 2 certainly not dealt, a serious subject like 3 this, at 2:30 when we have been around here for 4 the last two months with, in my opinion, lots of 5 time where we could have discussed it and 6 perhaps plugged up some of these holes that I 7 feel are still in this bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 question is on the resolution. All those in 10 favor signify by saying aye. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may 15 explain my vote. 16 (Response of "Aye." ) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: O.K. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: First time 19 this resolution came before us just half an hour 20 ago, I voted for it because I think it's 21 important to have debt reform, but I must say 22 that I was convinced by the argument that 23 Senator Hoffmann made, which is that there's no 4725 1 need to pass this at this particular time in 2 this hour with so little chance to get public 3 input. 4 We ended up with egg on our face 5 last year. We passed debt reform. We all 6 congratulated ourselves and then we found what 7 we did was highly insufficient. We looked 8 foolish. We may be doing the same thing again. 9 Not only so that we know that 10 we're not making a gross error again, but to let 11 the public, the people who are affected by this 12 an opportunity to be heard -- I guess there's 13 some argument to be made, Well, we got to pass 14 the budget; we're already 66 days over. People 15 are desperate to have a budget, you got to do it 16 even though it's the middle of the night and 17 there hasn't been a chance for any public 18 input. 19 But why this resolution? Why 20 can't this wait one week, one month, two 21 months? It's not going to be on the ballot 22 until November. I think Senator Hoffmann is 23 absolutely correct, and I vote in the negative, 4726 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 4 Announce the negatives. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 1153 are 7 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, 8 Nanula, Oppenheimer and Senator Pataki. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 resolution is adopted. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 7. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 resolution is adopted. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hoffmann. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: A point of 18 clarification. Is the second bill -- is the 19 bill that came in sequence following Calendar 20 1153 a language bill that addresses the same 21 resolution? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Stafford, would you like to address that 4727 1 question? 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. I'm 3 sorry, just quickly what did you say? 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: The debt 5 reform amendment, that resolution that just 6 passed, is the -- is Calendar Number 1154 a 7 companion to that or is there a companion to 8 that bill? Since we're dealing, due to the 9 bankers' case, we're dealing with two pieces of 10 legislation on several of these measures, is 11 that such a measure? 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I believe, now 13 -- am I correct this is 1153 -- that we're 14 talking about right here what you just asked 15 about and then we have another one, it's a 16 capital planning bill which implements the 17 plan. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: But the debt 19 reform is a single bill, it is not a dual piece 20 of legislation? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Single. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4728 1 Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 3 recognize Senator Stafford, please? 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: You're not 5 going to start in, are you, asking questions? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Stafford. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Could we 9 please announce an immediate meeting of the 10 Committee on Finance in Room 355 -- they told me 11 that. It's 332. The meeting's in 332. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 13 will be an immediate meeting of the Committee on 14 Finance, Senate Committee on Finance in Room 15 332. 16 Senator Jones. 17 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Due to the 18 fact that we do not have calendar numbers, there 19 is confusion. In my opinion, 1149 is a 20 companion bill to the debt. I would like to 21 have unanimous consent to be recorded in the 22 negative on 1149. I believe that - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 4729 1 objection, Senator Jones will be recorded in the 2 negative on Calendar Number 1149. 3 Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, can I have the same deference shown 6 as Senator Jones with respect to the bills she 7 mentioned, 1149 and 1153. I, frankly, did not 8 have the calendar number, and the bills in 9 sequence, so I would like to have unanimous 10 consent to change my vote on that bill to the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 13 1149, without objection, Senator Dollinger will 14 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 15 1149. 16 Senator Hoffmann. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would like 18 to make the same request but also would like to 19 request in the interest of common sense if we 20 could simply have a one-page calendar that would 21 give us a short title on the bill with the Sen 22 ate numbers on them. It's been very difficult 23 to try to keep track of them. 4730 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 1149. 4 Senator Mendez. 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, 6 there is going to be an immediate meeting of the 7 Democratic Conference. Immediate meeting. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 9 will be an immediate -- an immediate meeting of 10 the Democratic Conference in the Minority 11 Conference Room. 12 Senator Present, we have several 13 pieces of housekeeping we'd like to do at the 14 desk. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: All right. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before 17 that, Senator Nanula. 18 SENATOR NANULA: Mr. President, I 19 also ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 20 negative on Senate Bill 1149. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Nanula will be recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 1149. 4731 1 The Chair recognizes Senator 2 Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 4 on behalf of Senator Trunzo, I call up his bill 5 Senate Print Number 3473, recalled from the 6 Assembly which is now at the desk. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 8 will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Trunzo, 3473, an act to amend the Public 11 Authorities Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Libous. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 15 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 16 bill was passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will call the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll on 20 reconsideration. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 22 before the house. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 4732 1 now offer up the following amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 3 Amendments are received and adopted. 4 Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 6 on behalf of Senator Lack, on page 6, I offer up 7 the following amendments to Calendar Number 346, 8 Senate Print 6680-B, and ask that said bill 9 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Amendments received and adopted. Bill will 12 retain its place. 13 Senator Libous. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 15 on behalf of Mr. Stafford, Mr. President, I call 16 up his bill Print Number 437-C recalled - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 20 Stafford, Senate Bill Number 437-C, 21 Environmental Conservation Law. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 23 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 4733 1 bill is passed. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will call the roll on reconsideration. 4 (The Secretary called the roll on 5 reconsideration.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 8 now offer up the following amendments. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Amendments are received and adopted. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 33 of 12 today's calendar, Senator Marino moves to 13 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 14 Bill Number 8386-A, and substitute it for the 15 identical Third Reading 1144. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 I ask the Senate stand at ease awaiting a report 21 of the Finance Committee. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Senate will stand at ease awaiting the report of 4734 1 the Senate Committee on Finance. 2 (The Senate stood at ease from 3 2:42 to 3:50 a.m.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 will recognize Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 I would urge all members to return to the 8 chamber. We'd like to proceed, if we might want 9 to leave in the next hour or so. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Please 11 ring the bell; Secretary will convey the request 12 from the acting Majority Leader that all members 13 return to the chamber to their positions ready 14 to proceed with the balance of the budget 15 bills. 16 ....At 3:58 a.m.... 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Senate will come to order. Return to reports of 19 standing committees. Ask the Secretary to 20 read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 23 following bills directly for third reading: 4735 1 Senate Bill Number 6453-A, Senate Budget Bill, 2 an act making appropriations for the support of 3 government; 4 Also Senate Bill Number 8548, by 5 the Committee on Rules, an act to provide an 6 apportionment of education aid for school 7 session days held on Veterans Day; 8 Senate Bill Number 8549, by 9 Senator DiCarlo, an act to amend Chapter 713 of 10 the Laws of 1993, relating to an apportionment 11 of state aid for certain salary expenses; 12 Also Senate Bill Number 8599, by 13 the Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Tax 14 Law, in relation to the imposition of the taxes 15 related to fuel use and authorizing the 16 Commissioner of Taxation and Finance to enter 17 into cooperative agreements; 18 Senate Bill Number 8609, by the 19 Committee on Rules, an act in relation to 20 certain provisions which impact upon the 21 expenditure of certain appropriations made by a 22 chapter of -- Chapter 53 of the Laws of 1994. 23 All bills reported directly for 4736 1 third reading. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection, all bills are reported directly to 4 third reading. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: We call up - 7 want to recognize Senator Farley. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 9 recognizes Senator Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. Thank you, Senator Present. 12 I just want to make an 13 announcement that the Banks Committee which is 14 scheduled for 10:00 o'clock today is canceled 15 and will meet next week. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 can we take up Calendar 1158, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read Calendar Number 1158. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1158, Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 4737 1 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 2 11854 and substitute it for the identical Senate 3 Bill 8599. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Substitution is ordered. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 8 message of necessity at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 indicates there is, Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 12 accept the message. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 14 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 15 Number 1158. All those in favor signify by 16 saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The message is accepted. 21 The Clerk will read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4738 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'd like to - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Holland to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'd like to 10 just speak a little bit about finger-imaging. 11 We're disappointed, of course, that we weren't 12 able to expand finger-imaging statewide but 13 we're happy that we were able to expand it into 14 12 districts. 15 What we want to point out is that 16 the 12 districts do not preclude any other 17 district or city from moving on their own into 18 finger-imaging. In fact, we want to encourage 19 them to do that and offer our help in any way we 20 can. Also next year in this budget process we 21 will make every effort to expand this above the 22 12 and to the complete state. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4739 1 Pataki to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, 3 if I might briefly on the bill. 4 I have consistently, during the 5 course of this budget debate, voted "no" to the 6 vast majority of the budget bills that we have 7 adopted so far, and I must also vote "no" again 8 to this tax bill, and I think the reasons are 9 very simple. 10 If you look at this budget in its 11 entirety, this budget increases state spending 12 from last year by more than $4.3 billion. If 13 you asked the people of this state last year if 14 they thought that this state spent enough or 15 spent too much or spent too little, I think the 16 overwhelming majority would have said that this 17 state government spends too much; and yet this 18 year, again, we see a massive increase in 19 spending, more than 7 percent increase over last 20 year, more than two and a half times the rate of 21 inflation, and I think when you look at this in 22 the context of the budget of this Governor over 23 the prior 11 years, it again shows that we 4740 1 haven't put in place the fiscal restraints 2 necessary to have true, deep, realistic and 3 important tax cuts adopted. 4 First, let me briefly comment and 5 thank Senator Marino and my colleagues here on 6 the Republican side in the state Senate for 7 their efforts to cut spending and to have 8 broader and deeper tax cuts. Senator Holland 9 mentioned the Senate's fight to extend the 10 finger-imaging program across this state. That 11 was blocked. 12 This state Senate has, year after 13 year, enacted legislation which would put in 14 place a spending cap that would have precluded 15 and prevented this massive increase in spending 16 from being adopted again this year. This state 17 Senate has, time and again, adopted significant 18 and major welfare reform legislation that would 19 cut the cost of this state government and has 20 for a long time argued for agency consolidation 21 and other measures to cut the cost of state 22 government. 23 If you want to look at what this 4741 1 state should be doing, take a look at what this 2 Senate did on April 2nd when we passed a tax cut 3 package in excess of $700 million, a tax cut 4 package that could have been even far greater 5 because at that time we didn't know the 6 magnitude of the surplus that, in fact, ended up 7 being available for fiscal '94-95. 8 So while this pack... this bill 9 pending before us has a number of very positive 10 initiatives, cuts that this Senate Majority has 11 argued for, for some time, and are now being 12 adopted, it retroactively again puts off and 13 raises the personal income tax rate. It again 14 retroactively raises the so-called temporary 15 corporate surcharge so that the effective rate 16 will be 12.5 percent this year instead of the 10 17 percent called for by present law; and I might 18 point out that earlier this year our Comptroller 19 Carl McCall said that that is not a tax cut, it 20 is a tax increase because it raises the tax rate 21 from what would be the case under current law. 22 So, Mr. President, I am 23 constrained to vote against this bill as I have 4742 1 voted against most of this budget package 2 because we simply cannot afford again a budget 3 that increases spending by more than two and a 4 half times the rate of inflation and that 5 continues the policies of Mario Cuomo that have 6 made us number one in spending, number one in 7 taxes and number one in job losses in this 8 country. 9 So, Mr. President, again, my 10 thanks to my colleagues here. We should have 11 seen the Governor get behind that tax cut 12 package that this house passed on April 2nd. We 13 should have worked to make it broader because of 14 the increased revenue that came into this state, 15 but unfortunately there's only so much the 16 Senate can do on its own, and I think we need to 17 see a budget that truly cuts taxes. 18 Mr. President, I vote in the 19 negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Pataki will be recorded in the negative. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4743 1 Gold to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 3 President. 4 I know we're in -- getting into a 5 political season and we're not going to solve 6 all the problems certainly tonight; but some 7 things were just said which are just so 8 hypocritical and outrageous that they require a 9 short answer. 10 I'm amazed, every year, every two 11 years the same nonsense. Same nonsense. You 12 read in the newspapers about these three-way 13 negotiations and it's not fair, three-way 14 negotiations. You talk about three people in a 15 room, this whole thing, and the Speaker is doing 16 this and the Majority Leader is doing that and 17 then there's the Governor over there, and then 18 finally this year over 60 days late we wind up 19 with a budget, and we didn't even finish -- we 20 didn't even finish voting on it when some 21 Republican in the Senate stands up and starts 22 talkin' about this budget like you fellows have 23 been on Mars. 4744 1 What a crock! The Governor sent 2 up a budget, and the way I understand the 3 numbers, the budget we're passing now is more 4 money than he sent up. But where did that extra 5 spending come? It came from you as well as 6 everybody else. 7 You talk about tax cuts. This is 8 a Senate Majority that, in the last few years 9 has voted proudly, your 31 votes, for $5 billion 10 in new taxes, and you're going to point to "the 11 Governor made me do it, the Governor made me do 12 it." We are mindless puppets that the Governor 13 made us do it? And that's just junk! The 14 argument is junk! It is ridiculous, and I would 15 certainly hope that, as we're getting into a 16 political season, we can at least increase the 17 level of rhetoric to something intellectually 18 deserving of this legislative body and of the 19 people we represent. 20 They deserve more, and I can't 21 believe the people of this state are going to 22 consider changes in an administration just by 23 people saying the same old junk. It's the 4745 1 Democrats that spend it, the Republicans that 2 cut. Nonsense! This budget, every word of this 3 came to our Conference today to take a look at 4 principally for the first time. You people put 5 this together, along with the Governor and the 6 Assembly and, if you think we're going to let 7 you forget it, well, you better forget that 8 notion. And the concept of somebody coming in 9 and saying, "Remember, I voted no" and "I voted 10 no for this" and "I voted no for that," well, 11 O.K., if the people of the state of New York 12 think that a negative is going to replace the 13 positive, I don't believe that either. 14 I haven't heard one constructive 15 thing. Anybody can sit around saying "No," and 16 "I don't know, I don't know," and this and 17 that. The fact of the matter is every Republican 18 member of this Senate was intimately involved 19 with this budget. It's your budget as the other 20 ones have been and, if we are doing some tax 21 cutting in an affirmative way that's good for 22 the people, well, I'm proud to help cut some of 23 the taxes you imposed because without the 31 4746 1 votes of the Republicans in this house those 2 taxes wouldn't be on the books and, if it wasn't 3 for the Republicans in this house, we wouldn't 4 have an awful lot of spending in this budget. 5 So at least have some pride in 6 what you do. Don't run away from it constantly 7 and don't keep pointing to the Second Floor. 8 Mario Cuomo's a pretty strong guy for a fellow 9 his age, but he's not strong enough to take the 10 35 of you and twist you and bend you to make you 11 do all of the taxing you've done over these 12 years and to be able to stop you from the 13 spending you've done. 14 I vote yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Marchi to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Explain my 18 vote. 19 I've been here a long time, and 20 I've taken pride in each and every year that 21 I've put into this house, and I think all of 22 you, every member of this, no matter what your 23 positions were, you all participated in the 4747 1 process, and we have every reason to feel proud 2 of what we have done today. I'm not going back 3 home ashamed. I'm going home tall and proud. 4 I vote aye. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will announce the results. 7 Senator Dollinger, explain your 8 vote? We're on a roll call, Senator Dollinger. 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1158 are 12 Senators Dollinger, Nanula and Pataki. Ayes 57, 13 nays 3. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we take up Calendar 1155. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read Calendar 1155. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1155, 22 Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 4748 1 9103-A, and substitute it for the identical 2 Senate Bill 6453-A. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Substitution is ordered. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 is there a message of necessity at the desk for 8 1155? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 10 informed by the Secretary that there is. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 I move that we accept the message. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 14 to accept the message on Calendar Number 1155. 15 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 The message is accepted. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no. Mr. 23 President, can we have at least - 4749 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, with all due 5 respect, Senator Hoffmann made an excellent 6 point before. Senator Leichter makes the same 7 point. We are being very, very cooperative, but 8 as the bills are called, it is not enough to do 9 the numbers; if we could just get the title and 10 if Senator Stafford would be kind enough to give 11 just a brief explanation and I mean brief, so 12 that we all know we're on the same course. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the title of the bill, Calendar Number 15 1155. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1155, substituted earlier, Assembly Bill Number 18 9103-A, an act making appropriations for the 19 support of government, to amend Chapter 50 of 20 the Laws of 1994, enacting the state operations 21 budget; to amend Chapter 54 of the Laws of 1994, 22 enacting the capital projects budget and to 23 amend Chapter 51 of the laws of 1994, enacting 4750 1 the Legislature and Judiciary budget, aid to 2 localities budget. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Stafford, for a brief explanation. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Continuing on in good humor, I 8 will make some specific references, but I won't 9 go into too much detail, but we certainly will 10 and have the obligation of answering any 11 specific questions, and it is a very detailed 12 bill. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is this the 14 aid to localities budget? 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aid to 16 localities. Yes, thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 read the last section. 19 Senator Waldon. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 21 believe I have an amendment at the desk. I wish 22 to waive its reading and to speak to my 23 concerns. 4751 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Waldon to explain his amendment to the Calendar 3 Number 1155. 4 SENATOR WALDON: My colleagues, 5 so many years ago the Community Services Society 6 of New York City was running a program in 7 Southeast Queens. People like Theodore Jackson, 8 Arthur Benjamin and myself, on a very regular 9 basis, gathered at "T" Jackson's home and from 10 that experience was created the Jamaica Service 11 Program for Older Adults which has, since 1978, 12 been the most viable service provider to senior 13 citizens of all colors, all ethnicities, in 14 Southeast Queens. They never have been rated 15 less than doing a great job by all of the 16 entities which come into contact with them in 17 terms of making judgments about their 18 performance of service. 19 Under the new administration in 20 the City, a three-year contract was snatched 21 from the Jamaica Service Program for Older 22 Adults and given to a private sector corporation 23 with the name Personal Touch. This company, to 4752 1 my knowledge, has no real contacts with the 2 Southeast Queens community and, in fact, the 3 federal government's Aging Law requires that the 4 people who service the elderly reflect their 5 ethnicity and be allowed to have a personal 6 relationship whenever possible because seniors 7 are very frightened by having strangers come 8 into their homes and come into their lives. 9 I did not act too cavalierly in 10 my response to what I thought was an egregious 11 wrong by the new administration. I spoke with 12 the director of the program, a lifelong friend, 13 Carol Hunt. I spoke with the board members. I 14 spoke with my wife, who serves on the board and 15 has been very active with this organization now 16 almost 20 years. I then spoke with the new 17 Commissioner for Aging, whom I had met many 18 years ago through Dr. Lorraine Colville, also a 19 lifelong friend, and Commissioner Stupp, after 20 much dialogue, said to me, "Well, this was what 21 Dinkins did. It really wasn't my decision." 22 That won't wash, because the 23 decision to take this contract, over a million 4753 1 dollars, which will in effect decimate this 2 organization in my community, was made by this 3 administration. 4 It was unwarranted. It was 5 untimely. It will put 29 African, Caribbean 6 American women out of work. In that regard the 7 Commissioner said, "Well, we intend to interview 8 them. We will hire them." One, Personal Touch 9 pays much less. It doesn't have the same 10 benefits package, and there's no guarantee that 11 one of those women, almost to the person who is 12 a head of household, single parent will be hired 13 by this organization. 14 So many things are happening with 15 this rape of the Jamaica Service Program for 16 Older Adults. There will be people out of work, 17 senior citizens from our community will be less 18 served, and it is unfortunate that this 19 insensitivity has been shown to the people I 20 serve in Southeast Queens. 21 And so I ask that we, in our 22 wisdom, do the following: That we amend the bill 23 that we're considering so that it will say as 4754 1 follows: Beginning with line 2, after 2 "providers," "provided, however, the city of 3 New York shall contract for these services with 4 only not-for-profit service providers located in 5 the city of New York," and that at line 6, page 6 3, between lines -- I'm sorry, between lines 47 7 and 48 on page 3, insert "for services and 8 expenses of Jamaica Service Program for Older 9 Adults, $1,132,000." 10 A lot of money for this area, a 11 lot of service for the senior citizens who, in 12 their twilight years, should be allowed some 13 modicum of sensitivity by those who service 14 them. 15 I beg you to join me in this 16 effort and make whole the Jamaica Service 17 Program for Older Adults and allow the seniors 18 in my district to have the same kinds of 19 services as in other areas of the city. 20 By the way, Senator DiCarlo is 21 suffering the same wrong. Over 50 percent of 22 all of the contracts let by the Department of 23 Aging were given to this one company. It is 4755 1 wrong, my brothers and sisters. It is wrong. 2 Let's make it right. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 question is on the amendment to Calendar Number 5 1155. All those in favor of the amendment 6 signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed nay. 9 (Response of "Nay." ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's a 11 close vote, but the amendment is defeated. 12 Senator Markowitz, on the bill. 13 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you 14 very much, Mr. President. 15 Back in 1971, Medgar Evers 16 College of the City University began as a 17 four-year institution of higher education, 18 specifically devoted to providing quality 19 education with a sensitivity towards African 20 American and Caribbean-American students in 21 Brooklyn and indeed beyond Brooklyn, but 22 especially in recognition of the contributions 23 to the fight for civil rights made by Medgar 4756 1 Evers, they named a school in his honor and that 2 school grew. 3 And then in 1976, the City fiscal 4 crises stripped Medgar Evers of four-year status 5 and relegated the school, one of the first in 6 New York State devoted to African-Americans and 7 Caribbean-Americans, stripped them of their 8 four-year status and relegated them to junior 9 college status. Now, there's nothing wrong with 10 junior college status, but when you're a senior 11 college and then becoming a junior college, you 12 can understand, I'm sure, the outrage that many 13 Central Brooklyn residents felt, especially 14 people of color. 15 In 1979, I was elected and the 16 rallying cry from that day and before and up 17 until this very moment has been restore 18 four-year status, return to the community, 19 return to Central Brooklyn that which it was 20 due, that which should have never been taken 21 away, and I want to really thank at this time, 22 if I can, Speaker Sheldon Silver, and before 23 him, Mel Miller, Stanley Fink, our leaders here 4757 1 in the Senate, Ralph Marino and Fred Ohrenstein, 2 the committee that's worked very, very hard, 3 Kenny LaValle is chair, it took many, many, many 4 -- sometimes you have to wait a long time, 5 sometimes you have to wait too long for good 6 things to happen. Luckily for us, the last few 7 years we were blessed with the appointment of a 8 president of Medgar Evers, Dr. Edison Jackson 9 who, by the way, is listening to us at this very 10 moment at a retreat down in Virginia and I know 11 he's waited for this day for many years. I know 12 Senator Galiber and I, Senator Velmanette 13 Montgomery, Senator Ada Smith and members 14 especially of the Brooklyn delegation Martin 15 Connor, and others, all of us, this is a very 16 proud evening or morning, whichever way you look 17 at it. 18 Under Dr. Jackson's leadership, 19 there's no question that educational excellence 20 has been seen and his promise of creating Medgar 21 Evers as a flagship of the City University will 22 be much easier to reach because of the return of 23 senior college status that is happening this 4758 1 evening. 2 I thank you very, very much. 3 It's a dream come true. There are going to be a 4 lot of happy people tomorrow. Those people in 5 our society that aspire to make their lives 6 better for themselves and their families will be 7 aided immeasurably because of the action of the 8 state Legislature today. 9 I commend those that made this 10 possible, the Black and Puerto Rican Caucus in 11 the state Senate and in the state Assembly, and 12 all of us that care about providing quality 13 higher education, regardless of background, 14 nationality, race, color and religion. 15 Thank you very, very much. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Go ahead. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, yield to 20 you, Joe. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 I'll be extremely brief on a very 4759 1 important topic, and that is the educational 2 formula for the city of New York. Those of us 3 who have spent most of our life here have been 4 working industriously in this Senate body to try 5 to change the formula. We tried through 6 hearings, Mr. Chairman, to ask the new Mayor of 7 the city of New York whether he would then be 8 responsible for giving to education, which is 9 our youngsters, the monies that we would 10 appropriate. He did not give us a correct 11 answer, in my judgment. He said no, he wouldn't 12 or he was non-committal, which means no, he 13 would not. 14 We are happy to see in this 15 year's budget, for whatever the reason is, 16 there's been a growth in education and I notice 17 that some of my colleagues from the city of New 18 York which, it's late, I would normally have 19 asked them some questions about, in all candor 20 the Republican mayor that we have in the city of 21 New York, what they have done with the view 22 toward bringing equity to the educational system 23 in the city of New York and based on the 4760 1 formula. 2 We have long been fighting for 3 that formula which is unfair. New York City has 4 37 percent of all the students in the state, but 5 it does not receive the equivalent percentage. 6 We recognize that New York City 7 received some 34.61 in total aid this year. 8 Again, I'm not quite sure how much of this will 9 go actually to the pupils in our school system. 10 This class size, which we've mentioned over and 11 over again, some 63 percent of it above state 12 average in terms of school population. We 13 recognize that out in Nassau and Suffolk, that 14 the classroom population is much less. We 15 thought, very frankly, that inasmuch as we had a 16 Republican mayor in the city of New York that 17 perhaps those equities would be changed and 18 shifted over because I think in all sincerity 19 there's no one in the sound of my voice who 20 would not agree that we're primarily concerned 21 with educating our youngsters. This formula 22 does not do that. 23 And I can go on with the 4761 1 computers, one for every 19 students and New 2 York City has 82 percent of the limited English 3 proficiency students, 51 percent of all severe 4 disability students, so in the urban center and 5 based on population, our needs are greater and 6 they've been great for a long while, but we have 7 not been able to convince those persons who are 8 from the City, some of my colleagues who in 9 their heart's heart recognizes what students 10 need in our city to join, if you will, in a 11 special effort to change that formula. 12 We have some hope that the 13 executive branch of government is now guided 14 by -- not guided, but we certainly have a 15 Republican mayor and from a political standpoint 16 we were hoping that that would make a difference 17 in terms of the formula. 18 So I thought, Mr. President, I'd 19 like to reflect that on the record. It's a 20 fight that has taken longer, if you will, than 21 four-year status for Medgar Evers. It's been 22 much longer than that, 27 years, and John Marchi 23 as well as others of us have been interested in 4762 1 changing that formula, but up to date nothing 2 has happened. 3 So I'm happy, Mr. President, with 4 my colleagues that we see that increase which 5 was a struggle because from day to day even to 6 this last 24 hours, there's some $21 million 7 hanging out there before the discrepancy, I 8 believe, within education was resolved. But it 9 hasn't gone far enough, and I'm hoping that we 10 still have some opportunity before this session 11 ends to remedy some of this, because we're 12 talking about -- I'm sure we've heard before 13 it's a truism, an almost special commodity which 14 is the youth of our state. 15 We've lost a generation of youth, 16 especially in our urban centers. There's 17 absolutely no need with high technology and the 18 ability of some of the teachers that we have, 19 who are doing a good job by and large, to 20 recognizing that teachers in overcrowded 21 classrooms are mere monitors, grown up, highly 22 paid monitors, and they're not teaching our 23 youngsters, which is the future of our state and 4763 1 the future of our country. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 4 recognizes Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 Senator Galiber really made the 8 point that I wanted to make. I think it's a 9 terribly important point, I'm sorry that it's at 10 this late hour, but we're really dealing with 11 one of the major issues in the public affairs of 12 this state, and one of the major problems and 13 that's the inequity of school aid in the city of 14 New York, and it really is inexcusable. 15 I think one thing has to be made 16 clear, that the Speaker of the Assembly fought 17 very hard to get school aid for the city of New 18 York increased not more than our share, just to 19 try to move towards our share. 20 Senator Galiber gave you the 21 figures of 37 percent of students and yet the 22 amount of school aid that the city of New York 23 is going to receive overall is 34.61. Under the 4764 1 Governor's proposed budget, it would have been 2 higher, but once again we find that -- in the 3 Republican Majority in this house, the total 4 disregard for the needs of the city of New York, 5 and I'm sorry that there's a disregard for what 6 I can only assume was the effort and the attempt 7 of those Senators in the Majority from the city 8 of New York to try and get a fair share of 9 school aid for the city. 10 I just want to point out some of 11 the really frightening statistics that show the 12 extent of this inequity. New Yorks share of 13 students with limited English proficiency is 82 14 percent; New York's share of kids in 15 supplementary education program is 61 percent. 16 New York City average class size is 20 percent 17 to 63 percent greater than the rest of the 18 state. New York City average compute -- has one 19 computer for every 19 students, and in the rest 20 of the state, it's one for 13. What makes it 21 even more inequitable is that the greater amount 22 of state revenue is raised from the city of New 23 York. 4765 1 Now, Mr. President, there are 2 some people who would like to see part of the 3 state secede and become another state. That 4 would lift a great burden from the city of New 5 York, and we'd be able to have a greater and 6 enriched educational program. 7 I'm not suggesting that we 8 actually proceed with that, but I do suggest 9 that we finally move towards equity, and it's 10 regrettable that if we moved at all this year 11 it's at a snail's pace. 12 This budget is still unacceptable 13 as far as school aid for 37 percent of the 14 children of the state, 37 percent with greater 15 need. This budget discriminates against those 16 children. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stavisky. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Apart from the 20 issues that have already been raised with regard 21 to the funding formula, let me suggest that 22 there is an additional problem, the problem of 23 what happens when the money is sent from the 4766 1 state of New York, from the Legislature and the 2 Governor to the various school districts. 3 In all but five of those cases 4 among the more than 700 school districts in the 5 state of New York, no local official, mayor, 6 county executive, town or village official, has 7 any right to control what happens to the state 8 aid to education funding. That goes directly to 9 the New York -- to the New York State school 10 districts outside of the "Big Five" cities. 11 During the past year and during 12 the past few months, we have witnessed what many 13 consider to be a tragedy in the polarization 14 between the board of education and City Hall. 15 There was almost the resignation of a chancellor 16 of the New York City school system, and a sabre 17 rattling that can do know good for the 18 reputation of the school system or the 19 reputation of the mayor's office. 20 I've heard more sabre rattling. 21 "No, we will not accept the additional state 22 aid to education" is one variation on the theme 23 from City Hall. "No, we will not use the money, 4767 1 the increased aid to education, for the schools" 2 is another variation on the theme. 3 Let me state again something that 4 everyone in this chamber already knows, that 5 education is not a mayoral agency. Education is 6 a state responsibility vested in the Legislature 7 by the provisions of the New York State 8 Constitution, and we are the ones who have 9 created school districts, and we are the ones 10 who appropriate the money for every single 11 school district. 12 It seems to me that wisdom, both 13 at the board of education and at City Hall would 14 call for a more collaborative effort on the part 15 of both sides because New York City, unfortun 16 ately is caught in what is called a fiscally 17 dependent school district where the final budget 18 for education passes through the municipal 19 budgetary process. 20 If that is done fairly and 21 evenly, if that is done with sensitivity, there 22 should be no arguments between the city 23 government and the board of education. In a 4768 1 school district such as Rochester, there is 2 generally a formula that is agreed to as to how 3 the local funding will be apportioned for 4 education in addition to the state aid, and it 5 seems to me that that good sense covenant 6 between education and the municipality could 7 well succeed in the New York City school 8 system. 9 That is not to say that waste or 10 incompetence or an over-bloated bureaucracy 11 should ever be tolerated. No taxpayer dollars 12 should be wasted, whether they're state dollars 13 or local tax levy money. But there cannot be a 14 situation where the intention of the Legislature 15 expressed tonight in appropriating to the New 16 York City school system over $3 billion with a 17 $187 million increase, should not reach the 18 children in the school system who need it and 19 deserve it, and that's the message we're 20 sending. 21 Some years ago in 1976, when 22 there was a Democratic governor and a Democratic 23 mayor of New York City, many of us of the same 4769 1 party and many who are Republicans, joined 2 together in a rallying cry that education should 3 not be made the sacrificial lamb when it comes 4 to fairness in municipal budget-making and we 5 enacted a piece of legislation that I shared 6 with our colleague here in the Senate. It was 7 called the Stavisky-Goodman bill, and over the 8 objection of the mayor of my party and a 9 Governor of my party, that Stavisky-Goodman bill 10 became a Stavisky-Goodman law, to guarantee that 11 money that we appropriated would be used fairly 12 in the city budget. 13 Do we have to resort to other 14 remedies such as requiring a maintenance effort 15 by the city of New York in its tax levy and 16 appropriations so that they would use the state 17 aid not to supplant local assistance but to 18 supplement local assistance? Or do we have to 19 travel the extra step and have a New York City 20 school system which is separate from the 21 municipal government, which is what happens in 22 virtually every district throughout the state of 23 New York? 4770 1 No one in this chamber would 2 allow a county executive, a mayor, a town or 3 village official. To strip the school district 4 bare in order to balance a local budget, and it 5 shouldn't be done in this case either. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 7 recognizes Senator Lack. 8 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. I'll try to be brief considering the 10 time in the morning. 11 All sorts of things, I guess, can 12 happen when it gets to be 4:30 in the morning 13 and you want to talk about budget. I must say 14 I'm somewhat startled after 16 years of being in 15 this chamber. It must be because there's a 16 Republican mayor in the city of New York that 17 I've heard the former chair of the Assembly 18 Education Committee who comes from the city of 19 New York, actually stand up in the chamber and 20 talk about ending school dependency as we know 21 it in the "Big Five" cities. 22 Since I have occasionally been 23 known to stand up here as well and talk about 4771 1 ending school dependency, I certainly applaud 2 Senator Stavisky doing so. I look forward to 3 seeing legislation introduced by Democratic 4 members of this house and by the Assembly that 5 are going to do just that. 6 For the 16 years I've been here, 7 it has been totally unfair in negotiating 8 budgets that we who don't represent the large 9 cities of this state and represent rural and 10 suburban areas are constantly forced to have to 11 get accused by all sorts of Democratic members 12 of this Legislature that all we're trying to do 13 is try and get school aid for our communities 14 when all of you from particularly the city of 15 New York just need to put everything in a big 16 pot and send it down to the mayor of the city of 17 New York regardless how it's spent. 18 We, of course, can't do that. We 19 have to get revenue sharing for our cities and 20 our towns and our villages. We have to get 21 pre-K handicapped aid this year for our counties 22 because we can't do otherwise, and we certainly 23 can't call a county executive, Senator Stavisky, 4772 1 and you're quite right and congratulate 2 ourselves on what we've done in school aid and 3 we certainly can't call a school superintendent 4 and ask him to congratulate us on the amount of 5 monies that we've sent into our cities, towns, 6 villages and counties. 7 You all had the advantage on us 8 for many -- for many a year and while you're out 9 blaming Mayor Giuliani for allegedly taking 10 money that's going to the City and City school 11 system and spending it elsewhere, all I've got 12 to tell you, he had a very good teacher. 13 In the 16 years that I've been 14 here, I've read time and time again about Mayor 15 Koch and about Mayor Dinkins taking money and 16 buying sanitation trucks with it when it should 17 be going to the school children of New York 18 City, taking money and balancing the budget of 19 the city of New York when it should be going to 20 the school children of New York City, but the 21 one thing I never heard in the 16 years that I 22 was here is to have a member from the city of 23 New York stand up and complain about it. 4773 1 So, Senator Stavisky, I want to 2 congratulate you now that you finally have a 3 Republican mayor for standing up here and 4 congratulating and saying, Let's end school 5 dependency now. I applaud you, sir. I welcome 6 your legislation when you introduce it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Stavisky. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Will Senator 10 Lack yield to a question? 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: What was the 12 political affiliation of Abraham Beame? 13 SENATOR LACK: I believe he was a 14 Democrat. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. Is it 16 true there were Democrat members and Republican 17 mayors who, over the objection of Mayor Beame, 18 voted for the Stavisky-Goodman law, although it 19 was vetoed by Governor Hugh Carey, also a 20 Democrat, in 1976, or have you forgotten the 21 lesson of 1976? 22 SENATOR LACK: I haven't for 23 gotten the message of 1976; I'm just remembering 4774 1 it's 1994 and too late, too late you're 2 remembering the lesson of 1976. 3 All I'm suggesting to you, sir, 4 is that it's 1994 -- introduce legislation 5 ending school dependency and I invite every 6 member of the Senate of the state of New York to 7 sign on that legislation to be introduced in 8 both houses of this Legislature. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: And you will 10 vote for it? 11 SENATOR LACK: I will be happy to 12 vote for it, sir. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: O.K. You may 14 have a new Lack-Stavisky bill. 15 SENATOR LACK: No. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: You're not 17 signing on so quickly. 18 SENATOR LACK: No, sir. I would 19 not think of imposing on the city of New York 20 official administration anything as an 21 outsider. I've spent too many years here being 22 accused of imposing this position on the city of 23 New York. If you all, for the city of New York, 4775 1 want to impose something on the City, put in the 2 legislation. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 5 any other member wishing to speak on this bill? 6 If not, the Clerk will read the last section. 7 Senator Padavan. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Explain my 9 vote. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Padavan to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 20 in respect to all of you and the hour of the 21 morning that we're in, I did not choose to get 22 involved directly in the debate, but I think 23 it's important that some response be given to 4776 1 the comments read, I think, from a document in 2 front of him by Senator Leichter. 3 The fact remains that his 4 statements, both in terms of fact and in terms 5 of conclusion were wrong. This 34-37 percent 6 issue that we hear all the time fails to 7 acknowledge the fact that every school district 8 in this state is measured in terms of a formula 9 on attendance and, in that regard, the city of 10 New York gets its share. 11 But what he should have said is 12 that because of our unique problems in the city 13 of New York regard to the pupil population that 14 we must educate, that we need more than our 15 share. If he had said that, I wouldn't have 16 quarreled, wouldn't take issue. I would not 17 quarrel, and if it wasn't with regard to this 18 budget and the efforts of this Majority, 19 particularly the six of us from the city of New 20 York, I think you do us a disservice, Senator, 21 because if you go through all those documents, 22 you will see 42 million out of 62 million 23 statewide going to the city of New York on 4777 1 school maintenance. You'll see the lion's share 2 of Magnet money. You will see money for 3 increased enrollment that will largely go to the 4 city of New York. You will see pre-K money, a 5 large chunk of it going to the city of New York 6 in addition to the formula aid that kicks in at 7 over $150 million dollars out of the increase. 8 Now, if you add up all those 9 components, you see that, as far as the 10 increased amounts being provided in this budget 11 in aggregated, the city of New York is getting 12 the lion's share, and that didn't happen by 13 accident. 14 I vote aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 16 will announce the results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 1155 are 19 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter 20 and Pataki. Ayes 55, nays 5. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Present. 4778 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Now, Mr. 2 President, can we have the title of 1159 read 3 and act upon it? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Clerk 5 will read Calendar Number 1159. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1159, an act in relation to certain provisions 8 which impact upon the expenditure of certain 9 appropriations made by Chapter 53 of the Laws of 10 1994 which enacts the aid to localities budget, 11 to amend Chapter 60 of the Laws of 1994, 12 relating to certain provisions which impact upon 13 expenditure of certain appropriations made by 14 Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1994 enacting the 15 state operations budget, in relation to 16 transferring certain monies from the contingency 17 reserve fund to the general fund and to amend a 18 chapter of the laws of 1994 as proposed in 19 Legislative Bill Numbers S. 8550-A -- 8550, 20 excuse me, Assembly Bill Number 11811, relating 21 to certain provisions which impact upon the 22 expenditure of certain appropriations for 23 capital projects, in relation to the percentage 4779 1 of monies available for certain educational 2 maintenance and repair expenses. 3 Senator Stafford moves to 4 discharge the Committee on Finance from Assembly 5 Bill Number 11874 and substitute it for the 6 identical Senate Bill 8609. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Substitution is ordered. Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 is there a message of necessity for Calendar 11 1159 at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 informs me there is, Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 15 accept that message. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 17 to accept the message on Calendar Number 1159. 18 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The message is accepted. 23 Secretary will read the last 4780 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 8 the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1159 are 11 Senators Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones and Pataki. 12 Ayes 56, nays 4. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 1154, 17 please -- 1144. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read -- Secretary will read Calendar Number 20 1144. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 33 of the 22 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1144, 23 substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 4781 1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8386-A, 2 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering 3 and Breeding Law, in relation to the wearing of 4 advertising or promotional material by jockeys. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2, 13 Senators Hannon and Pataki recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Take up 19 Calendar Number 1156, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read Calendar Number 1156. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1156, an act to provide an apportionment of 4782 1 education aid for school session days held on 2 Veterans Day and Anniversary Day in the city of 3 New York for the 1993-94 school year. 4 Senator DiCarlo moves to 5 discharge the Committee on Finance from Assembly 6 Bill Number 11809 and substitute it for the 7 identical Senate Bill 8548. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Take up 1157. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read Calendar Number 1157. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4783 1 1157, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number 2 8549, an act to amend Chapter 713 of the Laws of 3 1993, relating to an apportionment of state aid 4 for certain salary expenses incurred by a school 5 district between April 1st, 1994 and June 30, 6 1994, in relation to changing the date of school 7 district -- changing the date a school district 8 is eligible for apportionment. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Clerk 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Present. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 I believe that Senator DeFrancisco has a 22 privileged resolution at the desk. May I ask 23 that the title be read and adopted at this time? 4784 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the title of the privileged 3 resolution. 4 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 5 Resolution, by Senator DeFrancisco, honoring the 6 24 Eleventh Grade English Students at Nottingham 7 High School for their winning project in the 8 49th Senate District Good News/Good Kids student 9 recognition program. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 11 is on the resolution. 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 14 I believe I have a privileged resolution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter, could -- Senator Leichter, do you 17 mind, please -- Senator Leichter, do you mind if 18 we adopt this resolution before we take yours 19 up. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: I apologize. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 22 is on the resolution. All those in favor 23 signify by saying aye. 4785 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Opposed nay. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 The resolution is adopted. 5 Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. May I 7 have my privileged resolution read, the title, 8 please. 9 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 10 Resolution, by Senator Leichter, celebrating the 11 60th Anniversary of the Kingsbridge Center of 12 Israel. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 14 is on the resolution. All those in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The resolution is adopted. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 any housekeeping? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pretty 4786 1 well taken care of, Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there being no further business, I move that we 4 adjourn until Monday, June 13th, at 3:00 p.m., 5 intervening days to be legislative days. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 7 stands adjourned until Monday at 3:00 p.m. 8 (Whereupon, at 4:53 a.m., June 8, 9 1994, the Senate adjourned.) 10 11 12 13 14