Wednesday, June 22, 1994

5340 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 22, 1994 11 12:14 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 5341 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come to order. Ask members to rise and ask 4 guests in the gallery to rise and join me in 5 saying the pledge of allegiance to the American 6 flag. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate joined in 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 We're very pleased to be joined 10 by a constituent of Senator Oppenheimer's, the 11 Rabbi Douglas Kranz from the Congregation B'Nai 12 Yisrael from Armonk, New York. 13 Rabbi Kranz. 14 RABBI DOUGLAS KRANZ: Sovereign 15 of the Universe. We gather here with noble 16 purpose. Here within these walls the fate of 17 people is decided. Here in this hall, words are 18 spoken and decisions are made which will 19 determine the future of our children. 20 Here we gather with those who 21 sail the ship of state. I suspect every member 22 of the clergy uses those words from time to 23 time, but it seems to me that they are important 5342 1 words. What should be said to those who are 2 sailors on the ship, the course of which 3 determines our destiny? 4 We might suggest that like 5 sailors of old time, sometimes those who are on 6 the vessel become focused on the skirmishes 7 which take place on the deck. Here, where life 8 is lived on the deck, too many pander to the 9 politics of pollsters. Here on the deck, too 10 many are engaged in the pursuit of power. 11 We are so human, all of us, we 12 forget to look to the horizon to watch for the 13 shoals, the sandbars, the rocks, the dangers, 14 that might wreck the ship which we sail 15 together. 16 Too many speak about truths and 17 budgetary realities, or so it seems to me, when 18 we suffer, instead, from a spiritual crisis in 19 our society. In my religious tradition, we say 20 "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord 21 is one." 22 Just as God is one, so too all 23 people are one; yet we do not live that way 5343 1 today. Today, that oneness is divided, white 2 against black, city against suburb, rich against 3 poor. 4 The spiritual blight of our 5 society is characterize by roles of prejudice 6 and hatred and fear and anger as strong and as 7 profound as any that could ever be built with 8 bricks and mortar. These divisions mar the 9 dignity of God which created every human being 10 as one. 11 These are not matters of 12 budgets. These are maladies of the spirit. 13 Even today in New York City, the hungry and the 14 homeless, the AIDS infected and the mentally 15 infirmed were banished from the street corners 16 because we can not bear to look upon them. 17 Shame on us, because they are God's children. 18 God's children suffer, and we dare not avert our 19 eyes. 20 So the prayer is that we might 21 all of us cast aside the politics of power and 22 seek to break down the divisions that have come 23 to separate one from the other. Is that not the 5344 1 hope of all of us being here together today? Is 2 that not our prayer, that those who labor here 3 at last do God's work? 4 Let us together break down the 5 barriers that divide human beings. Let us 6 together, shoulder to shoulder, set aside the 7 divisions of that which was meant to be one, the 8 creation in which God's children might flourish. 9 That that be our hope and our 10 prayer as together we say amen. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 12 of the Journal. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Tuesday, June 21. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. Senator Spano in the chair upon 16 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer 17 by Rabbi Robert A. Rothman of Rye, New York. 18 The Journal of Monday, June 20, was read and 19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 5345 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Communication and reports from 6 state officers. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 Senator Farley. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. On behalf yourself, Senator Kuhl, 11 Mr. President, I wish to call up his bill, 12 Senate Print 3718A, which was recalled from the 13 Assembly, which is now at the desk. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl, 17 Senate Bill Number 3718A, an act to amend the 18 Public Officers Law. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 20 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 21 bill was passed. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 5346 1 (The Secretary called the roll on 2 reconsideration.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is before the house. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 7 I now offer the following amendments and I ask 8 the bill retain its place. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 amendments are received and adopted. The bill 11 will retain its place on the Third Reading 12 Calendar. 13 Senator Farley. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 15 Senator Skelos, Mr. President, please place a 16 sponsor star on Calendar Number 600. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 18 star is placed on Calendar Number 600. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 20 Senator Daly, on page 4, I offer the following 21 amendments to Calendar 261, Senate Print 4583C, 22 and I ask that that bill retain its place. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5347 1 Amendments received and adopted. The bill will 2 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 3 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Trunzo. 6 SENATOR TRUNZO: Will you please 7 place a sponsor star on Calendar Number 1279. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 9 star is placed on Calendar Number 1279. 10 Senator Present, we have some 11 substitutions we would like to read. 12 Secretary will read the 13 substitutions. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 30 of 15 today's calendar, Senator Skelos moves to 16 discharge the Committee on Local Government from 17 Assembly Bill Number 4939B and substitute it for 18 the identical Third Reading 1265. 19 On page 31, Senator Skelos moves 20 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 21 Assembly Bill Number 9235B and substitute it for 22 the identical Third Reading 1268. 23 Senator Saland moves to discharge 5348 1 the Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill 2 Number 10191 and substitute it for the identical 3 Third Reading 1271. 4 On page 32, Senator Rath moves to 5 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 6 Bill Number 9847A and substitute it for the 7 identical Third Reading 1273. 8 On page 32, Senator Kuhl moves to 9 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 10 Bill Number 11418 and substitute it for the 11 identical Third Reading 1275. 12 On page 32, Senator Padavan moves 13 to discharge the Committee on Finance from 14 Assembly Bill Number 9354 and substitute it for 15 the identical Third Reading 1276. 16 On page 32, Senator Johnson moves 17 to discharge the Committee on Finance from 18 Assembly Bill Number 10699 and substitute it for 19 the identical Third Reading 1278. 20 On page 33, Senator Babbush moves 21 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 22 Assembly Bill Number 11542 and substitute it for 23 the identical Third Reading 1284. 5349 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 2 Substitutions are ordered. 3 Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: I have a 5 privileged resolution at the desk, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 8 a privileged resolution at the desk. Secretary 9 will read the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 11 Resolution, by Senator Padavan, honoring Kenneth 12 Auer for distinguished community services upon 13 the occasion of his designation for special 14 honor by the Holy Cross High School community at 15 a testimonial to be held on June 27, 1994. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Move to adopt 17 the resolution. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 19 is on the resolution. All those in favor, 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed, nay. 23 (There was no response.) 5350 1 The resolution is adopted. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 4 I believe Senator Daly has a privileged 5 resolution at the desk. May we have the title 6 read and have it acted on? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the privileged resolution by Senator 9 Daly. 10 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 11 Resolution, by Senators Daly and Nozzolio, 12 commending the Monroe County School Board 13 Association upon the occasion of its 25 years of 14 dedicated service to public education in Monroe 15 County and New York State. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 question is on the resolution. All those in 18 favor, signify by saying aye. 19 SENATOR CONNOR: Excuse me, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Connor. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 5351 1 I wonder if we could open this up for additional 2 sponsorship if the sponsor would agree. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Daly is not in the chamber. 5 Senator Present, what is your 6 wish on that particular matter? 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 8 until we hear from Senator Daly. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 resolution will be laid aside temporarily. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 13 recognize Senator Larkin, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 17 There is a privileged resolution at the desk. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read Senator Larkin's privileged 20 resolution, at least the title of that 21 resolution, at the desk. 22 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 23 Resolution, by Senator Larkin, commending the 5352 1 Horizons on the Hudson Magnet School upon the 2 occasion of its designation as a "Blue Ribbon 3 School" by the United States Department of 4 Education. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 question is on the resolution. All those in 7 favor, signify by saying aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Those opposed, nay. 10 (There was no response.) 11 The resolution is adopted. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 14 In behalf of Senator Goodman, I believe he has a 15 privileged resolution at the desk. May we have 16 the title read and have it acted upon. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 18 a privileged resolution by Senator Goodman at 19 the desk. 20 Secretary will read the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 22 Resolution, by Senator Goodman, honoring the 23 Lennox Hill Neighborhood Association on its 5353 1 100th Anniversary. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 3 is on the resolution. All those in favor, 4 signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 11 Can we take up the non-controversial calendar, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the non-controversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 16 Calendar Number 379, by Senator Cook, Senate 17 Bill Number 4936A, an act to amend the Education 18 Law, in relation to shared services aid. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 Read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5354 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 381, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 9 1898, an act to amend the Executive Law, in 10 relation to parole release of certain inmates. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 429, by Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 5355 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 4 for the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside for the day. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 881, by Senator Solomon, Senate Bill Number 9 2774, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 907, by Senator Levy. 22 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5356 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 933, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Bill Number 4 7050, an act to amend the Executive Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1118, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 17 5056A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 5357 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1164, by Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 8 for the day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside for the day. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1186, by Senator - 13 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1213, by Senator Kuhl. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1243, by Senator Kuhl. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 5358 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1247, by Senator Wright. 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Lay it aside for 6 the day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside for the day. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1252, by Senator Kuhl. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill 12 aside for the day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside for the day. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1254, by Senator Wright. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1255, by Senator Rath. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5359 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 3 1257, by Senator Santiago. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside for 5 the day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside for the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1258, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 623, 10 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1259, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 23 1127, an act to amend the Public Lands Law. 5360 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1260, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 13 1155, an act to amend the Penal Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 5361 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1261, by Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 4 for the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside for the day. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1262, by Senator Paterson, Senate Bill Number 9 2241A, authorizing the City of New York to 10 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 12 a home rule message at the desk. 13 Secretary will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5362 1 1263, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 2 3739A, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 3 Security Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a home rule message at the desk. 6 Secretary will read the last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1264, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 18 4186A, an act to amend the Public Authorities 19 Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5363 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1265, substituted earlier today, by member of 9 the Assembly Harenberg, Assembly Bill Number 10 4939A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 11 Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1266, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 5364 1 5387A, an act to amend the Education Law. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1267, by Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay it aside for 8 Senator Oppenheimer, please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed? I'm sorry. Lay the bill aside for 11 Senator Oppenheimer. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1268, substituted earlier today, by member of 14 the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Bill Number 15 9235B, an act to amend the Penal Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5365 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1269, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 5 6740, Real Property Tax Law, partial payment of 6 taxes in Chautauqua County. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1270, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 19 7076A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5366 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1271, substituted earlier today, by member of 9 the Assembly Hickey, Assembly Bill Number 10191, 10 payment of special district payment by the state 11 to the Town of Poughkeepsie. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 13 local fiscal impact note at the desk. 14 Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 5367 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1272, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 7395, 3 an act to amend the Education Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1273, substituted earlier today, by member of 16 the Assembly Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 17 9847A, an act to amend the Executive Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 5368 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1274, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7755A, 7 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1275, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 20 Committee on Rules Assembly 11418, an act to 21 amend the Judiciary Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 5369 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1276, substituted earlier today, by member of 11 the Assembly Feldman, Assembly Bill Number 9354, 12 an act to amend the Executive Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5370 1 1277, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 2 7907, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 3 Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1278, substituted earlier today, by member of 16 the Assembly Harenberg, Assembly Bill Number 17 10699, an act to amend the Executive Law. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5371 1 Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. Is Calendar 1276 still in the house, 4 please? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter, the bill still is in the house. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, may I ask 8 that we reconsider the vote by which the bill 9 passed. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 12 bill passed the house. 13 The Secretary will call the roll 14 on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is before the house. 20 Senator Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Could you lay 22 it aside, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5372 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1280, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 4 8091, an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 a home rule message at the desk. 7 Secretary will read the last 8 section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1281, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 19 8210, an act to amend the Banking Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 5373 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1282, by Senator Larkin, Senate Bill Number 9 8248A, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 10 Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1283, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 23 8268, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 5374 1 Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 LaValle. 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 5 Can I ask unanimous -- are we in the middle 6 of - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 8 we're in the middle of a roll call. 9 Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator LaValle. 20 SENATOR LAVALLE: May I ask 21 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 22 on Calendar Number 1280, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1280, 5375 1 Senator LaValle? 2 It did pass. Senator LaValle 3 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 4 Number 1280. 5 Secretary will continue the 6 calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1284, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11542, 10 State of New York to sell and convey to the City 11 of New York and the City of New York certain 12 public lands. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 14 is a home rule request here at the desk. 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5376 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1285, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8581, 3 Uniform Justice Court Act. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1286, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 16 8593, amends Chapter 165 of the Laws of 1826. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5377 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1287, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8605. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 8 that bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1288, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 11 5606B, an act to amend the Public Health Law and 12 the Social Services Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. Nays 21 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 5378 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 3 Will you recognize Senator Daly relative to the 4 resolution he has at the desk. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Daly. 7 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. I 8 will be happy to open up my resolution for any 9 co-sponsors. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: With 11 your permission, Senator Present, we'll read the 12 resolution right now, out of order. 13 Secretary will read the title of 14 the privileged resolution. 15 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 16 Resolution, by Senators Daly, Nozzolio and 17 others, commending the Monroe County School 18 Board Association upon the occasion of its 25 19 years of dedicated service to public education 20 in Monroe County and New York State. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 22 favor of the resolution, say aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 5379 1 Those opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The resolution is adopted. 4 Those who wish to become 5 sponsors, please notify the desk. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's use the 8 other procedure. All those will be included as 9 sponsors except those who deny. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Everyone will be on the resolution except those 12 who approach the desk. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 14 Will you take up the controversial calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Secretary will read the controversial. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 21, 18 Calendar Number 907, by Senator Levy. 19 SENATOR GOLD: May we have a day 20 on this? 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 22 temporarily. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 5380 1 aside temporarily. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 28, 3 Calendar Number 1186, by Senator Libous, Senate 4 Bill Number 7975, Tax Law and the Social 5 Services Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a day 7 on this, Senator Libous? Senator Galiber wants 8 a day on this. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 12 bill aside for the day. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1213, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 4141A, 15 require the New York State and Local Employees 16 Retirement System to accept retirement 17 applications. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Explanation had been asked for. 21 Senator Kuhl. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 23 President. This is a bill that would extend to 5381 1 a single individual who is retired from the 2 Gorham Middlesex Central School eligibility 3 under a three-year credit incentive of the laws 4 of 1984. 5 Mary Hobart at the time of the 6 eligibility for the three-year credit incentive 7 for early retirement filed an application with 8 the State Retirement Board, which the State 9 Retirement Board says it never received. So she 10 has been denied her eligibility for that early 11 retirement system. 12 There are not currently any laws 13 that would allow her to gain that early 14 retirement incentive without special legislation 15 which this is, and that's the reason for this 16 bill. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 21 had my staff prepare an amendment which would 22 take care of these situations. It's an 23 amendment to the Trunzo law. I showed it to 5382 1 Senator Trunzo, and we are going to hopefully 2 with Senator Trunzo introduce it. Otherwise, 3 I'm going to introduce it myself. 4 But it would take care of this 5 lady and other people in a general way and get 6 it out of the Legislature. I'm not going to 7 repeat the debate from yesterday, but, Senator 8 Kuhl, I'm going to vote against this as a 9 private bill. If the woman is entitled to help, 10 I hope she will get that through the 11 administration procedure that maybe we can pass 12 into law within the next couple of weeks. 13 It's the wrong way to do it, as 14 we've said so many times, if we do it on an 15 individual basis. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 Senator Dollinger, do you wish to 19 speak? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One other 21 question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Kuhl, would you yield to a question from Senator 5383 1 Dollinger. 2 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I will yield to Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, is 5 there any long term cost to the pension system 6 of making this change? As you know, yesterday, 7 I think when you were in the chair, I raised the 8 issue with the bill that Senator Cook brought 9 up, where there was a $315,000 additional payout 10 from the retirement system to those individuals. 11 My question is apart from the 12 $12,000 one-time cost which will be paid by the 13 Gorham Middlesex School District, is there a 14 greater pension benefit or a greater payment 15 that would be required from the system in order 16 to accommodate the needs of this particular 17 applicant? 18 SENATOR KUHL: Not that I'm aware 19 of Senator Dollinger, not that was not 20 anticipated at the time of the earlier incentive 21 being offered. So there's nothing that this 22 bill would have added to any system that was 23 available that Mary Hobart was entitled to at 5384 1 the time of her application. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 3 Senator. I concur with Senator Gold's push for 4 getting this out of the political process and 5 the legislative process. I think that's a good 6 idea. I look forward to seeing that amendment 7 and voting in favor of it. 8 In this case, I'm going to vote 9 in favor of this one and distinguish it from 10 yesterday's vote because yesterday's vote would 11 have required a major additional contribution 12 from the pension system to cover the pension 13 cost. But if this is a $12,000 cost that the 14 Gorham Middlesex School District is willing to 15 pay, and I believe they've agreed to pay, then 16 there is no additional drain on the pension 17 system, and I think it's distinguishable on that 18 basis. 19 So I'll vote in the affirmative, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5385 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. Nays 6 3. Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded 7 in the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1243, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 8460, 12 an act in relation to membership in State Police 13 20-year retirement plan. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Explanation has been asked for. 17 Senator Kuhl. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Lay it aside for 19 the day please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 21 bill aside for the day. 22 Senator Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5386 1 President. I would like unanimous consent to 2 change my vote on the most recent bill . On 3 reviewing the bill, even though it's not in the 4 text of the memo, there is an indication it will 5 cost $170,000 in additional funds from the state 6 pension system, which Senator Leichter pointed 7 out to me, which does raise the same problem 8 that was posed by the bill yesterday. 9 So I would like unanimous consent 10 to change my vote on the immediate prior bill 11 involving the woman from the Gorham Middlesex 12 School system. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection, Senator Dollinger will be in the 15 negative on 1213. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1254, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 18 8592, an act to amend Chapter 533 of the laws of 19 1993, amending the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 21 for the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside for the day. 5387 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1255, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8604, 3 an act to amend the Executive Law. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6 aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1266, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 9 5387A, an act to amend the Education Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 11 second. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1267, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 6109B, 5388 1 an act to amend the General Business Law. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 3 Explanation, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 5 has been a explanation asked for by Senator 6 Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 8 President. Two years ago, the Legislature 9 unanimously adopted a bill that established in 10 the State of New York a requirement for the 11 licensing of security guard companies and for 12 the licensing of people who worked for security 13 guard companies, essentially security guards. 14 It was the understanding, I 15 think, of most of the members of this house and 16 certainly as indicated by a memo from the 17 Division of the Budget to the Governor in 18 suggesting that the Governor sign that bill, 19 which was to become known as the Security Guard 20 Act I believe of 1992, that this was -- that 21 piece of legislation was meant to set up a 22 standard for the so-called quote/unquote, "rent 23 a cop" operations. It was meant to protect the 5389 1 public from people who might otherwise have been 2 convicted of a felony, might have a criminal 3 record, from essentially preying on the people 4 they were being hired to protect. 5 Shortly after the adoption of 6 that bill into law, the awareness of what the 7 actual definition, the technical definition said 8 was brought to my attention and to, I'm sure, 9 several other members of this house and the 10 other house's attention as to what it did. The 11 definition was written so broadly that it 12 incorporated at that time or was interpreted to 13 incorporate people that did not really provide 14 security guard services in the traditional 15 sense. 16 We have had conjecture from 17 people who are in the businesses, across this 18 state, that it applies to them at times when 19 they thought it never should apply to them. We 20 have heard from proprietary institutions, 21 private manufacturing operations, we've heard 22 from public entities, we've heard from the State 23 of New York agencies, who say that this bill as 5390 1 it currently exists -- or I should say this law 2 as it currently exists will cause them 3 inumerable difficulties and tremendous costs. 4 We've heard from agencies like the Department of 5 Parks and Recreation that people who are 6 employed by them for summertime, part-time jobs, 7 those lifeguards, those people who take tickets 8 at entries into the parks would have to become 9 licensed as security guards. We have heard from 10 people who operate ski slopes that their 11 volunteer ski patrols will in fact - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Gold, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR GOLD: If Senator Kuhl 15 will just indulge me. Calendar 1266 which we 16 just passed, can we just hold that at the desk, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's 19 left the house already. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I'd like to 21 get it back into the house, if we could. We are 22 talking about a matter of minutes and I'd like 23 to get that back. 5391 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's up 2 to the sponsor -- Senator Stafford. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, can I make a 4 suggestion? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You can 6 make any suggestion you want. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Suggestion is that 8 we just passed this a couple moments ago. One 9 of my members would like it recalled. 10 Now, if we have to worry about 11 the sponsor, then I won't pass any bill from now 12 until the end of the session unless the sponsor 13 is sitting here. 14 Now, I thought it was nice -- it 15 was a Stafford bill. I didn't make him be here, 16 and I thought we could pass it. Now, the bill 17 left within minutes or even earlier. I would 18 like that bill brought back. I am asking nicely 19 and I want to see you getting the bill back. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 Deputy Majority Leader can make a decision. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I appreciate 23 everybody reaching out to him, and I'd just want 5392 1 to be out in the open, because I'd like to look 2 everybody in the eye as I talk. 3 If that's the rule, there will 4 not be one bill passed from now until the end of 5 the session unless the sponsor is in this room 6 so if there is a problem we can deal with the 7 sponsor. If that's okay with the majority who's 8 probably got 99 percent of the bills, that's 9 fine. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Present is the floor leader. 12 Senator Present, what's your 13 pleasure on this? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 15 We're attempting to check with Senator Stafford. 16 I think the rule of the house is that the 17 sponsor has control of the bills, and we will 18 contact Senator Stafford as soon as possible. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Let the record 20 indicate I appreciate Senator Present's 21 cooperation, as usual, but I still want that 22 bill back. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order. 5393 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Regular 2 order. 3 We are on an explanation by 4 Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 8 have your point. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. We've also heard from institutions 11 of higher learning, state universities, public 12 universities, that in fact have told us that the 13 law as it currently exists would prevent them 14 from providing scholarships to many of their 15 students, people who present a situation where 16 they can provide some sort of containment of 17 students who are going to school, people who are 18 commonly known as resident advisors and others 19 who live in a dorm; that all of a sudden, that 20 these people will be required to go through a 21 licensing as a security guard, and will actually 22 diminish the security because they will not be 23 able to do that financially; and, also, it will 5394 1 diminish their ability to provide scholarships 2 to these needy students. 3 We have also heard from retail 4 chains that this will seriously interfere with 5 the kind of security that they are currently 6 providing to their consumers. 7 So in total, Senator Oppenheimer, 8 what we have heard from the general public and 9 numerous different aspects of that -- and I 10 would go through a listing if you want me to, 11 and I can do that very quickly, of just some of 12 the people who have come out in support of this 13 bill who have said that they have difficulty 14 with the law as it currently exists. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I have it 16 here, Senator Kuhl. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Do you have the 18 list, Senator? Because it's growing every day. 19 It's growing. My file is so extensive. That's 20 the problem. It's getting to be mountainous, 21 and it's tough to find all the information, but 22 it's very extensive, and it covers a broad 23 range, practically every industry, every 5395 1 business, every not-for-profit, every 2 governmental entity in this state. People like 3 the Association of Counties, the Conference of 4 Mayors, the Business Council of the State of New 5 York. And then we get into individual listings 6 of people who oppose the bill as it currently 7 exists -- or the law as it currently exists. 8 What this bill does is very 9 simple. This bill attempts to draw a line as to 10 those people who would be covered and those 11 people who would not be covered. And it's 12 extremely difficult when you try to get into the 13 nature of the operation of what people provide 14 in the form of service in each institution, in 15 each business, in each not-for-profit 16 organization. 17 So what we have done in this 18 proposal is to draw that line and to draw that 19 line such that it excludes governmental 20 entities, not-for-profit institutions and 21 proprietary institutions. What would remain 22 would be the, quote/unquote, "rent a cop 23 operations", those Burns, those detective 5396 1 agencies like that, that in fact supported the 2 initial bill. 3 And the bill, again, as I 4 perceived it and as many of our people perceived 5 it, went beyond what it was intended to do, at 6 least as to what the initial motive, what the 7 selling operation was to this conference, to 8 your conference, and to the other chamber for 9 its adoption. 10 And, as I say, that was -- that 11 was pretty much indicated in a memo that went 12 from the Division of the Budget to the Governor 13 which essentially said, yes, we support this 14 bill and think it ought to be enacted into law 15 for these reasons. Nowhere in that is there any 16 discussion about a need to register 17 not-for-profits, proprietary institutions or 18 governmental entities. 19 And what we're finding is that 20 when you really get to an overall total as to 21 what this would cost the State of New York, the 22 estimates are upwards of $200 million or more to 23 implement this process in the State of New 5397 1 York. We have had testimony from -- for 2 instance, at a hearing that I had about a month 3 ago, from Syracuse University. And they told us 4 that to implement this process for them alone, 5 it was going to cost them upwards from a quarter 6 to a half a million dollars annually. 7 So it's a very expensive law as 8 was adopted. We mean to take the costliness out 9 of it to essentially direct the initial motive 10 of the bill to where we think it really was 11 intended, and that's the reason for this 12 amendment. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 16 President. I think you have an amendment at the 17 desk. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 19 there is an amendment here at the desk. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Okay. 21 Well, I'll waive its reading, and I will briefly 22 explain it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5398 1 Oppenheimer on the amendment. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There are 3 actually two reform bills here, one in the 4 Assembly and one in the Senate, and I support 5 some of the things that you are trying to do, 6 Senator Kuhl, and I would like to address the 7 areas where the two bills are different, because 8 it is the Dugan bill -- you can't hear? 9 Okay. It's the Dugan bill -- can 10 you hear now? It's the Dugan bill that I want 11 to speak to because that's what my amendment 12 is. 13 As I said, both houses have 14 separate bills, so we have to work out the 15 differences and come to some kind of agreement. 16 The Assembly bill sponsor feels that the changes 17 in the Senate bill are just too sweeping and 18 that they are unnecessary, and that the Mega 19 bill as we passed it a couple of years ago is 20 really a fine bill and solved some very real 21 problems, but that there are certain exceptions 22 that should be made. 23 The amendment that I have before 5399 1 you exempts only companies that employ less than 2 five guards from the licensing requirement. 3 Right now, the bill that is before you prior to 4 my amendment exempts all companies that employ 5 security guards on an inhouse basis. My bill 6 would only exempt those companies that employ 7 less than five guards. 8 In addition, my bill would 9 still -- my amendment would still require the 10 inhouse guards to be trained and registered and 11 fingerprinted and to be subject to background 12 checks; whereas, the prior bill exempts all 13 security guards employed on an inhouse basis. 14 In other ways, my amendment is 15 similar. It would exempt police and full-time 16 police officers from background and training 17 requirements because our police and our peace 18 officers already have to go through substantial 19 background checks and have substantial 20 training. 21 One of the issues that was 22 mentioned by Senator Kuhl in his memorandum was 23 the excessive cost of the fees and the excessive 5400 1 time consumed in filling out the various forms. 2 The fact is we should have oversight of our 3 departments and our agencies; and if the 4 regulations are such that they are onerous, we 5 should be able to change that. And to throw out 6 the baby -- oh, that's a bad analogy -- with the 7 bathwater -- excuse me -- I think is incorrect. 8 I think we should definitely get a handle on the 9 rules and regulations that are made that might 10 prove contrary or onerous to the intent of our 11 laws. That's something we are always fighting. 12 When I was holding hearings a few 13 years ago, my task force on women's issues, we 14 heard that there were considerable problems with 15 on-campus security guards; that in many 16 instances, they did not have proper training, 17 that there weren't background checks, that 18 sometimes they were covering up the very crimes 19 that they were supposed to be reporting. And 20 many of my private colleges in my district but 21 also around the state came and said, we 22 absolutely must have the opportunity to check 23 into the backgrounds of these people we want to 5401 1 hire as security guards, and that was not 2 available to them at that time. And, Senator 3 Mega's bill was the correcting influence there, 4 and we were able to check on the backgrounds of 5 security guards on campus so that they were no 6 longer unknown factors and, in many cases, 7 unqualified. 8 A security guard is a security 9 guard regardless of where he is employed, be it 10 inhouse or on a for-hire basis; and there should 11 be equal treatment on how they are regulated. I 12 think it's intolerable to have a double standard 13 just because of who is employing them. 14 And security guards, many of 15 them, will be performing the exact same 16 functions irrespective of where or how they are 17 employed, and I believe they require universal 18 training. They should have the same training, 19 regardless of whether they are inhouse or for 20 hire. 21 Very often, an untrained guard 22 will exacerbate a very volatile situation and 23 actually cause additional injury - 5402 1 unintentionally, but because they simply were 2 inappropriately trained or not trained at all. 3 If proprietary guards are 4 exempted from the act, they will additionally 5 not be subject to background checks which is 6 required by the Mega law, and the background 7 checks are absolutely essential to insure that 8 disreputable individuals are not unintentionally 9 employed to become security guards, and not 10 requiring background checks allows those with 11 potentially violent criminal histories to apply 12 and become hired for these positions, and this 13 is the very situation that the Mega bill was 14 intended to cure. 15 So, I'm not as eloquent as 16 Senator Mega, but I would like to appeal to not 17 emasculating his bill, because it was a wise 18 bill. And if there are problems, I believe 19 there are problems and I believe there are other 20 ways to correct the problem. 21 Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Kuhl. 5403 1 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, will the 2 sponsor of the amendment yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 4 you yield? 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Certainly 6 Senator. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Senator 8 Oppenheimer, I think there probably are a lot of 9 people in the chamber here who really have not 10 been as intimately involved in this particular 11 piece of legislation, and particularly the law 12 that currently exists. 13 So I think it would probably be 14 best, and I would like to ask you several 15 questions about what your amendment does, so 16 that they can see the contrast between what the 17 law proposed -- or the bill proposed is as 18 opposed to what your amendment does. 19 Now, as I understand it, your 20 amendment, which is the Dugan bill, it would 21 change the current law by exempting, quote/ 22 unquote, security guard companies who have less 23 than five employees from having to register with 5404 1 the state. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is 3 correct. 4 SENATOR KUHL: If I may continue, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Is it true that 8 under your proposed amendment that people who 9 monitor traffic at a county fair would still 10 have to register for six days? Once a year, 11 would still have to register as a security 12 guard? 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 14 Department of State is the body responsible for 15 who and who is not a security guard. So I think 16 they are the entity that would be addressing 17 that. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Well, it's my 19 understanding, Senator, under the current law, 20 the employer has to make the interpretation as 21 to who provides the security guard service and 22 who does not. But the enforcement of whether or 23 not their determination is correct is with the 5405 1 Secretary of State's Office. Is that correct? 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, it's 3 really for enforcement purposes that the 4 Department of State makes that determination. 5 SENATOR KUHL: So I guess from 6 what you are saying is that your amendment does 7 not change the requirement that's perceived 8 under the law now that a person who provides a 9 security guard traffic monitoring situation, as 10 it's interpreted under the law, would still have 11 to register as a security guard? 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is 13 correct. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Okay. That was 15 one of our concerns. 16 Does your amendment do anything 17 to alter the situation where a person who is a 18 ski patrol person having to register as a 19 security guard? 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 21 amendment doesn't alter the definition or 22 determination. 23 SENATOR KUHL: And your amendment 5406 1 does not change, does it, the requirement that 2 students who provide a resident advisor type of 3 service to a university in fact has to or will 4 have to register as a security guard, does it? 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If special 6 limited use exceptions are needed, we can 7 address them, but it's not necessary to repeal 8 the Mega bill to do that. 9 SENATOR KUHL: So again, Mr. 10 President, if I may. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Oppenheimer, would you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, 14 indeed. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Senator 16 Oppenheimer, just so -- again, so that my 17 colleagues understand that all of these 18 situations that I addressed in my explanation of 19 what the law was, it appears to me that your 20 amendment does not directly address except for 21 the registration of that, quote/unquote, 22 security guard company who has less than five 23 employees will not have to register with the 5407 1 state. Is that correct? 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That's one 3 aspect of the amendment. And, additionally, it 4 would require inhouse guards to be trained and 5 registered. 6 SENATOR KUHL: Does your - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Kuhl. 9 SENATOR KUHL: If I may again, 10 Mr. President. Does your amendment do anything 11 to change the training requirements that are 12 required, say, prior to hiring of any of these 13 individuals? 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would you 15 repeat the question because I didn't hear it? 16 SENATOR KUHL: I'm curious as to 17 whether or not your amendment does anything to 18 change the requirements for training prior to 19 employment? 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 21 Department of State is permitted to waive 22 training requirements if the training provided 23 at the company exceeds or meets their standards 5408 1 or exceeds their standards. 2 SENATOR KUHL: So your amendment 3 changes the requirement of the Mega law, as I 4 understand it, to give the Department of the 5 State permission to waive training requirements 6 under certain circumstances. Is that correct? 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 8 Department of State can under this amendment 9 waive the requirement. A lot of companies felt 10 that they had job-specific training; and in this 11 amendment, the Department of State may waive for 12 those specific cases. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Now, there - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Kuhl. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, thank you, 17 Mr. President. As you understand the law, 18 Senator Oppenheimer, you do understand that 19 there is a preemployment kind of training 20 program and then there is a commitment under the 21 law for annual training? 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Now, would a 5409 1 person who has gotten -- or is in need of a 2 waiver, who believes they have the right, they 3 already provide the necessary training, is there 4 a need for them or is there a provision in your 5 bill that would allow for a one-time 6 application; or are they going to have to go 7 back each time and ask for a waiver each time a 8 requirement is there that they have to comply 9 with? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 11 Department of State has that flexibility. The 12 language is not specific. Much relies on what 13 the Department of State determines. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Just out of 15 curiosity, does your amendment have any 16 appropriation for money in it that would allow 17 the Department of State to handle this influx of 18 applications for waivers? 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There - 20 SENATOR KUHL: It's a question we 21 always seem to get on this side of the aisle, 22 and I'm just curious. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: There are 5410 1 no appropriations, but this house on many 2 occasions has passed bills that -- does the 3 original bill have money appropriated to fulfill 4 the specific requirements of the rules and 5 regulations that you want to put in? 6 I mean there isn't money 7 appropriated in my amendment, no. Is there 8 money appropriated - 9 May I ask a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Oppenheimer, you have the floor. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Will you 13 yield, Senator Kuhl? 14 SENATOR KUHL: I will be happy to 15 yield. 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Is their 17 money appropriated in your bill to handle the 18 requirements of your bill. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Well, there's no 20 additional requirements, Senator Oppenheimer, so 21 there is no need for any money. 22 What our bill is is actually a 23 tax saver. It's actually a mandate reduction. 5411 1 It eliminates the need for businesses, for 2 not-for-profits, and for governmental entities. 3 As a matter of fact, in one of 4 the testimonies that we have received at the 5 hearing from people at the Department of Parks 6 and Recreation, they said in their own language, 7 and I'm quoting it verbatim, but they said this 8 was absolutely an abuse of taxpayer spending. 9 Absolute abuse. And it was ridiculous. It was 10 uncalled for. 11 And in a conversation that I had 12 with a member of the Governor's Employee 13 Relations Department, he admitted that he didn't 14 know how this bill ever got by him and how it 15 was ever signed into law without his objection. 16 They recognized within the administration, 17 within the second floor, that in fact this bill 18 is a waste of taxpayer dollars. 19 It's far from being a bill that 20 needs an appropriation. It's a bill that 21 actually saves people in this state money. As I 22 said, not only through taxpayer collection in 23 actual state expenditures, this goes down to 5412 1 every not-for-profit operation, every state 2 university, every private university. It allows 3 for the continuation of scholarships, so it's - 4 and in businesses, they are facing what we would 5 perceive as being a duplication of requirements 6 in training, so it's an additional cost to them 7 that's going to be passed onto the consumer. 8 It doesn't appear to me that 9 there is any cost involved with the adoption of 10 our bill. It's just the reverse. There is a 11 significant saving to the people of the State of 12 New York. As I indicated to you, I think it's 13 upwards of hundreds of millions of dollars. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Oppenheimer. 16 SENATOR KUHL: I will continue to 17 yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: She has 19 the floor. 20 SENATOR KUHL: I know. I 21 anticipated a question, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Okay. 23 Go ahead. 5413 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The fact is 2 that the Dugan bill and your bill both are 3 trying to address a problem, and the problem as 4 I see it is that you are exempting just about 5 every class in your bill, and that was not the 6 intent of the original law. There are certain 7 areas. There are certainly onerous regulations 8 which would need to be changed, but to throw out 9 these regulations by exempting an entire class 10 of security guards is really the problem here. 11 And I would like to ask the 12 question. We have to solve the problem in 13 another way, the differences between the two 14 bills. The Dugan bill has already passed in the 15 Assembly, and the Dugan bill gives the 16 Department of State the flexibility to 17 accommodate the needs of proprietary companies. 18 Is there an area within that 19 where you could see your way to sitting down and 20 coming to an agreement? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Kuhl. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, I have 5414 1 never had a problem with discussing the merits 2 of any bill. At this point, the Assembly 3 sponsor has refused to offer any kind of 4 recognition of the problems that we have been 5 facing, the problems with the not-for-profit 6 agencies, the problems of duplication of 7 training for the police officers, the problems 8 of the ski patrol licensing, those problems that 9 are going to cause considerable financial 10 reserves to be utilized by agencies out there. 11 We have had no contact. As a 12 matter of fact, total resistance from them. We 13 have a very able sponsor, and I understand that 14 this matter is being taken at higher levels and 15 being discussed over there about the possible 16 adoption of this bill. 17 One of the problems that I think 18 our colleagues should understand is that -- you 19 know, it's interesting that this bill is coming 20 down the way it is and that the law is coming 21 down the way it is. And what you are saying and 22 you suggested under your amendment -- and this 23 is where I wish to try to straighten things out 5415 1 and try to correct you -- is that you indicated 2 that what our bill does is do away with 3 regulations. 4 Well, that would be perceived by 5 most people here because of what they have dealt 6 with in the past, their experiences, that in 7 fact the regulations that have been promulgated 8 by the Department of State in fact are onerous. 9 That's absolutely untrue. That's 180 degrees 10 around. 11 The law is what created the 12 problem. The definition is so all-encompassing 13 that that is what has caused the problem with 14 the volunteer organizations and all the other 15 organizations that I've mentioned. 16 What is different about this 17 situation is that the Secretary of State's 18 office has promulgated regulations that ease the 19 impact of that law and are bending over 20 backwards to try to lessen the impact because 21 they see what is happening, but they are 22 constrained because of the definition of the 23 law, and that was what's so totally different. 5416 1 Usually, we find that there's an 2 agency who becomes overburdensome in their 3 regulations and distorts the actual intent of 4 the law, okay, and what the actual law does. 5 That's not the case here. They're working to 6 work this out. 7 As a matter of fact, with regard 8 to say, for instance, the problem that's created 9 in the universities, they have now said that in 10 fact when you to go define whether or not a 11 person uses 51 percent of their time in a 12 security guard operation, that students can now 13 utilize all the time they spend in class as an 14 offset to determine what the bottom denominator 15 of hours are that they are putting into the 16 university. Certainly, they are not employed to 17 go to class, yet Department of State said now we 18 can add that on so that we don't just take the 19 time that they're in their dorm and that they're 20 monitoring the traffic of the kids who are in 21 there who are going to school, which is what 22 they get paid for. We can now add that time. 23 So that is a regulation that they are going to 5417 1 actually soften the impact, and that's what you 2 have to understand. 3 So your question, as I said, you 4 know, this is not a question of changing rules 5 and regulations. They have been most helpful. 6 The Department of State has been most helpful 7 because they softened the impact of the law. 8 But we have had no input from the 9 Assembly sponsor, no contact from the Assembly 10 sponsor. As a matter of fact, there's been 11 total resistance. 12 It's been somewhat disheartening 13 that when these people have come to us -- you 14 know, it's interesting, and this is another 15 point I want to raise, because I think people 16 like Senator Galiber should understand this. We 17 got a call that there was -- as you probably 18 remember. There was a TV commentary by one of 19 our public service stations on this issue. As a 20 result of that publication in the City of New 21 York, I got a call from a person from the Bronx, 22 and the person from the Bronx said to me, "You 23 know, that law as adopted by Senator Mega and 5418 1 Assemblywoman Dugan is the most frustrating 2 thing to me because it's essentially eliminated 3 an opportunity of employment for me," and 4 explained to me that what was happening because 5 of the licensing requirement now, under certain 6 circumstances, that these people who didn't have 7 the wherewithal, the resources, were being 8 required to up-front the money for the 9 licensing, so it was excluding them. Now, that 10 wouldn't make any difference as to whether they 11 went to work for a hospital, a not-for-profit 12 agency or anybody else. 13 And that's the reason why we are 14 here, is because there needs to be an addressing 15 of that, but we're not getting any recognition 16 from the Assembly that there needs to be any 17 change. As a matter of fact, I think on that 18 very show, the Assemblywoman said, Well, that's 19 the way I understood the bill to be, the law to 20 be, anyway. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Oppenheimer. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the 5419 1 problems, if you would yield for another 2 question. 3 SENATOR KUHL: I yield, Senator 4 Farley. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: She's 6 got the floor. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the 8 problems is that your law is so broad. 9 SENATOR KUHL: I didn't - 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: One of the 11 problems is that your law is so broad that it 12 exempts the -- you were talking about campus 13 security, and that was an issue that came up 14 over and over again in the hearings that I had a 15 couple of years ago, that the campus security 16 guards were untrained, unchecked. Really, in 17 many instances, they had no idea of what their 18 backgrounds were, and the opportunity to get 19 that information was not available to the 20 campuses, to the administration of the 21 colleges. Your bill would also exempt, as I 22 understand it, the full-time security guard on 23 college campuses. 5420 1 SENATOR KUHL: That's true. 2 That's true. Our bill exempts not-for-profits, 3 governmental entities and proprietaries, all of 4 whom have an ultimate responsibility to the 5 people that they serve from a liability 6 standpoint. You know that, and I know that. If 7 there is some disservice, something done, there 8 is always the judicial system, the art of 9 litigation to be able to overcome that, and that 10 we are not trying to impose and never has been 11 imposed. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you 13 would yield? Are you suggesting that because 14 there is always the avenue of the courts that 15 there should not be training? 16 SENATOR KUHL: No, not at all. 17 As a matter of fact, if you review the testimony 18 that we have, you would see that most of these 19 institutions, everyone of those who supports 20 this bill, provides training that is probably in 21 excess of what is required under the current 22 law, but yet the current law would require 23 duplication of that training at an additional 5421 1 expense, and that's partially the problem. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think on 7 the bill. Thank you, Senator. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 9 amendment, I think you want. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Excuse me. 11 On the amendment. It is not that there doesn't 12 need to be attention brought to this issue, and 13 we need a resolution, and the resolution lies 14 somewhere perhaps between the Dugan bill and the 15 Kuhl bill. 16 It's my feeling that the 17 regulations are onerous, and that the fees may 18 be onerous, and that that should be handled by 19 our oversight of the agency. I think it is 20 essential to have registration and training of 21 all security guards, irrespective of who their 22 employer is. We want to have confidence in 23 security guards. They wear uniforms. We have 5422 1 to make certain assumptions that we can rely on 2 their training and we can rely on them being 3 people of good character who have not been in 4 our criminal justice system. 5 And so I would move my amendment, 6 saying that changes must be made to the law but 7 that to simply obliterate a law by exempting 8 almost everybody is not the way to go, and that 9 changes should be made and my amendment makes 10 them. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Before 13 I move the amendment, Senator Dollinger, did you 14 want to speak on the amendment? And then 15 Senator Gonzalez. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President. I have a question and I would ask it 18 of the sponsor of the amendment and the sponsor 19 of the original bill just so I make sure I know 20 what the current law says. 21 As I understand it, the current 22 law requires fingerprinting, background checks, 23 et cetera, for security guards who fall within 5423 1 the definition of the act; and my understanding 2 further is that the amendment proposed by 3 Senator Oppenheimer would retain that 4 provision. The bill proposed by Senator Kuhl 5 would relinquish that provision for inhouse 6 security guards. 7 My question is, can a college, 8 proprietary home, who employs an inhouse staff, 9 under current law, can they choose to do it if 10 they want to? In other words, if I'm a college 11 and I say, okay, the amendment doesn't pass, but 12 the bill passes exempting them, do colleges 13 still have the ability to go out and do it 14 independently if they decide that it's the right 15 thing to do? 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is 17 what brought the issue to my attention 18 originally, Senator. It was about four years 19 ago and a couple of my colleges in my district 20 were unable to get that information from 21 Criminal Justice Services. It was not available 22 to them, and there was no way they could check 23 on the people that they wanted to hire. 5424 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So my 2 understanding is, is there agreement by both the 3 sponsor of the amendment and the sponsor of the 4 bill that if -- under current law, there's 5 nothing that permits the inhouse employer to get 6 access to the background checks unless we attach 7 the amendment to this bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Dollinger, who are you asking that question of? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess 11 that's probably best directed at Senator Kuhl, 12 but I just want to get an agreement as to what 13 the current bill - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We're 15 on the amendment, of course. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand, 17 but - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Kuhl, did you wish to answer his question? 20 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Senator 21 Dollinger, your understanding is currently the 22 law. I think as Senator Oppenheimer has said 23 there is no availability for access to the 5425 1 fingerprinting system, either the FBI check 2 which is required under this law or the check 3 through DCJS at this time. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Dollinger, do you yield to Senator Oppenheimer? 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, I do, 7 Mr. President. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The current 9 law is the Mega bill. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. So 11 under current law, they are required to do it 12 because the Security Guard Act requires them to 13 do it, if they fall within the definition of 14 security guard under the act. If you remove 15 that provision for inhouse people, as I 16 understand Senator Kuhl's bill will do, then 17 they wouldn't have the ability to access that 18 data independently. That's correct. Okay. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Gonzalez. 21 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. I think that what I would like to do 23 is bring about a little bit of history to this 5426 1 Security Guard Act bill that was passed by 2 Senator Mega which I worked with him on this 3 particular bill. 4 He had this particular bill on 5 for about seven years before I came into the 6 Senate in '89, and it was to revamp, it was to 7 put a higher grade on the security guards that 8 was going throughout the state on a rampage of 9 criminals and people with records on being 10 security guard. 11 I happen to be currently right 12 now for the last fifteen years a licensee as a 13 watchguard patrol agency, although I have my 14 license hung up on the wall so I'm not acting 15 as -- but as far as being 20 years in the 16 security business, I was very helpful to Senator 17 Mega in the language of what is there now. 18 And I also want my colleagues to 19 remember that in back in '89, '90, or so, there 20 was a strike at the Daily News, where -- the 21 Daily News being a proprietor, so-called, in 22 their conflict with labor. They hired people 23 that were unscrupulous, and they called them the 5427 1 "Goon Squad Ninjas," and they would go in -- in 2 the rage, and they would -- the people that were 3 picketing were getting into physical assaults. 4 And so that also this bill that 5 everybody seems to think it should to go to 6 security guard agencies is not a fact. I mean 7 it shouldn't be a fact. Anyone who perpetuates 8 them in any kind of security manner, whether 9 they are protecting people or property, they are 10 meeting the public's interest and they should be 11 checked and they should be fingerprinted, and 12 they should be in the higher standards than 13 everyone not only security guard agencies. It 14 is anyone that is in doing security to protect 15 anything in the State of New York, and the 16 intent of the Security Guard Act was that. 17 Now, in this particular bill and 18 the one that is in the Assembly, it turns out 19 that if we can't get together that maybe - 20 maybe -- some little small things could be an 21 exempt, that that could be worked out so that it 22 could be a two-house bill, but they are very 23 limited, not to the broad extent as this bill is 5428 1 being brought upon because people are 2 complaining. 3 Of course everybody is going to 4 complain. They are going to complain because it 5 makes it a little harder, but at the same time 6 the public interest is being protected; that 7 people with not records, that people that are - 8 just do that as mercenaries, they call them, the 9 goons or whatever, do not get into -- whether 10 it's a county fair or whether it's some sort of 11 activity; and that not-for-profits don't know, 12 so they will take a person, anyone and put them 13 as a guard, and that person could have a record 14 and would be physically assaultive. And then 15 the only protection that is available is 16 insurance, but it's already after the fact. 17 So I think that as far as the 18 amendment. But I think that the both sides 19 should come together, and I relayed it to them 20 that I would be willing to give my expertise 21 into that area so that maybe some of the small 22 that can be exempted could be exempted. But in 23 the general sense, this was the protection of 5429 1 what it was meant to be, and that was what 2 Senator Mega with a localities of the other 3 Senators that were here, the intent is there, 4 and that was the particular intent. 5 Thank you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Cook on them amendment. 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I 9 was not involved in the passage of this original 10 legislation, but, obviously, there were a lot of 11 dinner conversations where I heard some 12 reference made to it, and I know how long 13 Senator Mega and Senator Gonzalez and others 14 worked on the legislation; and, indeed, it was 15 very important and very necessary legislation. 16 But like everything else that we 17 do here, we often find that there are problems 18 that arise afterward, and I have received many 19 communications from people which I have sent on 20 to Senator Kuhl and simply because I knew he was 21 working with this issue, and I compliment him on 22 the way that he has responded to it in this 23 legislation. 5430 1 Just couple of the examples of 2 people who contacted me were nursing homes, for 3 example, where the nurses or the receptionists 4 who sit at the desk where people come and go and 5 they are there to check on who is coming into 6 the nursing home for the security of the 7 patients, if you will, and also to insure that 8 somebody does not walk out, some patient does 9 not walk out and endanger themselves, find 10 themselves now classified as security guards. 11 Now, that clearly was not ever the intent of 12 what this law was. 13 We find that at the county fair, 14 again, somebody who is hired to stay in the 15 cattle tent overnight to watch, to make sure 16 that nothing happens to one of the animals that 17 gets loose and gores one of the other cows and 18 does something, they are a security guard under 19 this current law. 20 And these are the kinds of 21 problems that have arisen. So it's a good law. 22 I think for the reasons that it was put in place 23 in the first instance, it has served its purpose 5431 1 well. But, clearly, it has created for a lot of 2 other people a great deal of difficulty, and not 3 just financial difficulty but the real reality 4 of how are you going to get a nurse to go and 5 train to be a security officer? Or how are you 6 going get somebody, probably a young farm youth, 7 who is watching the cows to go and get a 8 security guard license? Those things just don't 9 work. 10 And I think that's what Senator 11 Kuhl's bill addresses. Unfortunately, I don't 12 think the limiting to go five, which is 13 apparently all the Assembly bill does, isn't 14 going to address those problems. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 amendment. You have moved the amendment, 17 Senator Oppenheimer? 18 On the amendment, all those in 19 favor, aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Those opposed, nay. 22 (Response of "Nay.") 23 The nays have it. The amendment 5432 1 is not accepted. 2 On the bill. Read the last 3 section. 4 Senator Galiber on the bill. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 6 on the bill. I voted in favor of the 7 amendment. 8 But, Senator, I believe what 9 happened here, is what often happens between 10 upstate and downstate. There is a different 11 perspective altogether. 12 You mentioned that young man or 13 young person or old person who called from Bronx 14 County who was concerned about the rules and 15 regulations as far as your piece of legislation 16 or the piece of legislation that was passed by 17 Senator Mega. 18 But Senator Gonzalez -- and I 19 didn't know it was 20 years. Time is really 20 running out on some of us, just passing for 21 others. 22 The fact of the matter is that 23 the condition in Bronx County and in our urban 5433 1 centers is quite different than someone coming 2 to the fair for six days to watch the cows. In 3 the City of New York, the cows were under the 4 tent, they would be there to steal the cows not 5 to watch them. 6 And that's the real big 7 significance, Senator, that we have situations 8 in our counties that security agencies are 9 impacted because they are paying low wages; and 10 as a result of that, they bring in just about 11 everybody you can possibly buy. 12 I happen to live next door to a 13 place where an incident occurred just two years 14 ago. And I know when we debate these bills, we 15 make them sound good whether they are cow 16 watchers or whether it's the local fair for six 17 days or whether it's the campus person who is 18 doubling for a security person. The fact of the 19 matter is that security is so very important and 20 it calls out, if you will, crys out for the 21 kinds of thing that the sponsor, Senator 22 Oppenheimer, has suggested; that there needs be 23 a meeting of the minds on this issue because we 5434 1 shouldn't be that far apart with a few 2 adjustments. 3 But to suggest that in the City 4 of New York where persons are not paid adequate 5 wage for security that they are pushed in under 6 no security, no screening, no check at all - 7 the incident -- I ran off on a tangent. This 8 particular security guard was paid the minimum. 9 Twenty years -- Senator Gonzalez, how -- it was 10 three dollars and some-odd cents some years 11 ago. In comparison, they are paying those 12 security guards about the equivalent now. 13 A lot of the persons who are 14 coming out of our penal institutions, no check 15 -- they've got fingerprints, but they were 16 taken at another time in history when they went 17 into the institution -- are being hired. In one 18 instance I made reference to, a young man 19 said -- got into the argument over nothing. A 20 question of going from one side of the street to 21 the other. The fellow said I'm going to go home 22 and get my gun and going to come back and I'm 23 going to shoot you. And he went home. Got the 5435 1 gun, came back and killed this young man. 2 Now that's a story just like the 3 cows and the others that I mentioned before, but 4 the fact of the matter, Senator, we live in a 5 different world in another part of the state. 6 It's a different world. We're all concerned 7 about security whether it's nonprofit or no. 8 The papers I received, your memo, 9 how many pages was it, Senator? About 30 or 40 10 pages to it? It was a lot of pages to be 11 authorized or to fill out, if you will, for 12 security purposes. We pay our income tax on a 13 short form. We can work out something, do the 14 same thing as far as security checks are 15 concerned on a shorter form. 16 But the legislation that Senator 17 Mega worked on had the true intent. Like many 18 pieces of legislation, after we've watched it 19 for a while, we need to make some amendments. 20 But the adjustments, Senator, that you choose to 21 put in your piece of legislation really defeats 22 the spirit of what that security bill was really 23 all about. You have exempted in your part of 5436 1 town persons who are impacted in our part of 2 town which will do violence. It's not the six 3 day fair that you make reference to. 4 So I would only hope in voting 5 against this piece of legislation as an 6 indication, a protest, really, that there should 7 be a meeting of the minds, and consistent with 8 my vote for the amendment, that we're hurting in 9 the City of New York, and we need the security 10 checks and we need the caution, not only from an 11 economic standpoint but for the safety of those 12 persons that collectively we're concerned with, 13 and that's the public at large. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 16 bill. Senator Oppenheimer and then Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I'll 19 be voting against this amendment to Senator 20 Mega's bill, which I felt really solved real 21 problems. Now, other problems have come along 22 and I think they need resolution, too, but I 23 think to eviscerate the Mega bill is certainly 5437 1 not the way to go, by saying that only security 2 guard companies should be able to do the 3 background checks and only they are required to 4 have training and to be registered. I think 5 we're just throwing away the whole intent of the 6 original bill which I think was an important 7 bill. 8 Now, there are problems that have 9 come along that need resolution. Certainly the 10 packet of forms that had to be filled out by the 11 person applying for registration, licensing is 12 certainly onerous, and that has to be changed, 13 and the fee structure probably can be amended. 14 But to throw out the whole intent of the bill 15 and say this just applies to security guard 16 companies and not to all the other proprietary 17 companies that employ security guards is simply 18 not -- was not the intention of the bill. And 19 the bill originally was a good one. Let's 20 correct the original bill. 21 I vote no on this. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Dollinger. 5438 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President. I rise on this bill because I think 3 one of the issues that's been talked about here 4 is the issue of expectations of security guards, 5 and I think the point at least in my part of the 6 village in the New York that I represent, the 7 point that was made by Senator Cook and by 8 Senator Kuhl I think is appropriate; and that 9 is, what do you expect when you see someone who 10 has got that little yellow T-shirt on that says 11 security? 12 I've been to parties on the beach 13 at Charlotte, where there's always a security 14 officer. I don't expect him to be trained. I 15 expect that he's someone being paid $5 an hour 16 to walk around with a T-shirt on and to tell 17 people that they shouldn't litter and do other 18 things. 19 I think the same thing may be 20 true for the occasional college security man at 21 Syracuse when I've gone to the Dome for games. 22 They wear a college security T-shirt or a 23 jacket. I don't expect them to be fingerprinted 5439 1 and background checked and act as the police. I 2 expect to them to be college kids who are there 3 to try to figure out whether something's going 4 wrong, talk into their walkie-talkies, bring in 5 the campus police. 6 It seems to me, and I'm going to 7 vote in favor of this bill, that this goes in 8 the right direction. And I have only one 9 quibble, I guess, with Senator Kuhl and it's a 10 minor one. 11 To suggest that we're in the 12 business of mandate relief, when what we did is 13 we created the problem by passing the bill in 14 the first place, is just a slight difficulty for 15 me. I think we're moving in the right 16 direction, moving back from having imposed a 17 mandate which was far too broad in the first 18 place, and I do concur with Senator Kuhl that 19 it's unusual. 20 The debates we had last week 21 focused on an agency that we had given broad 22 powers too, and they were galloping out of 23 control in the view of some of my colleagues, 5440 1 and there were those of us who felt that if we 2 wanted to bring that galloping out of control 3 back under control, the way to do it was to 4 change the enabling act and go back and shrink 5 the powers that we gave to the Department 6 Environmental Conservation. 7 Here we have almost the ironic 8 flip side of that, where we gave them broad 9 powers and they said to us, "We don't think we 10 want to exercise these broad powers." What I 11 see happening here are the checks and balances 12 that we talked about in that debate, that we 13 still have the power to control it. 14 I see this bill as taking an 15 administrative response, which we think is well 16 guided and conforming legislation to reflect the 17 day-to-day reality. The law was too broad in 18 its original inception, too all-encompassing. 19 It did capture the guy who was watching the cows 20 in the county fair, and we've gone too far. 21 So I'm going to support the 22 bill. I think the lesson in this bill is 23 perhaps when we enact these very broad statutes, 5441 1 we ought to try to imagine the specific problems 2 that are going to arise; and if we realize that 3 it's far too broad, let's shrink the original 4 legislative grant back to a manageable and 5 realistic proportion. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Kuhl on this bill. 8 SENATOR KUHL: I don't want to 9 extend the debate, but just to cover a couple of 10 quick points. One that Senator Galiber raised; 11 and that was, he felt this was an upstate/down 12 state battle. I would just, Senator Galiber, 13 point out to you that I don't perceive it that 14 way. Certainly there are unique problems in the 15 City of New York and certainly downstate that 16 are not there in upstate New York. 17 But I think the list of people 18 who support this bill indicates that there is 19 statewide support and there is no line, 20 geographical line, that would distinct the 21 support or nonsupport. For instance, the 22 Greater New York Chamber of Commerce supports 23 this bill, the Greater New York Hospital 5442 1 Association, the New York Clearing House, the 2 National Association of Feeder Operators, the 3 Check Cashiers Association of New York, the 4 Brooklyn Union Gas Company, the Business 5 Council, the American Federation of State, 6 County and Municipal Employees in New York 7 State, the Retail Council, the Association of 8 Counties. Those are all statewide associations 9 which have a very heavy municipal downstate 10 presence on them. 11 And also the point that -- I 12 think more importantly than that, the other 13 point that I wanted to touch on, which is one 14 that Senator Oppenheimer raised and certainly 15 Senator Gonzalez did, and you would have no 16 reason to know the feeling in some of the 17 security guard industry people. Certainly there 18 are the private security guards who feel very 19 favorable toward this bill because they see it 20 as an employment opportunity. One of the people 21 who testified at the hearing said that after the 22 passage of the initial Mega/Dugan bill, other 23 than MCI, his most often caller was a security 5443 1 guard company. They looked at it as a security 2 guard employment bill. 3 Now let me tell you what the 4 Capital Police, the chief of police of the New 5 York State Capital Police and chief 6 administrator said at our hearing, and I quote, 7 and it's a very short two paragraphs. He says, 8 "While I feel there is a need for some mandates 9 for training and background checks for security 10 guards, I don't believe the Security Guard Act 11 of 1992 is based on solid knowledge of what is 12 going on in the security field. I believe the 13 act was a knee-jerk reaction to some problems 14 resulting from private sector security 15 companies, and security company's failure to 16 properly screen and train employees. I find 17 that most public sector and many private sector 18 proprietary security agencies properly screen 19 applicants as well as providing basic and 20 inservice training which far exceeds the 21 mandates of the act. The Office of General 22 Services Securities Services is an example of a 23 New York public sector security agency that 5444 1 should be exempted from the act. The mandated 2 background investigation and licensing fee of 3 $110 per security officer, which includes 4 security guard officers already employed is a 5 waste of $11,000 in taxpayer dollars. No 6 consideration is given to the fact that all OGS 7 security officers personnel were fingerprinted 8 and a complete background investigation 9 conducted at the time that they were hired," and 10 then he goes on to talk about the actual 11 training requirements which again are also 12 requirements that are duplications. 13 So I think that this bill has a 14 very, very sound basis for its adoption, and 15 that as many people have said, Senator 16 Dollinger, Senator Cook, that perhaps we were 17 not as diligent as we should have been with 18 regard to the adoption of the initial bill in 19 1992, but that this bill will really set 20 security guard licensing and restrictions the 21 way in should be done in New York. 22 Thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5445 1 the last section. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: I can wait. I 3 can wait. Just have my name called. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Galiber to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Senator 14 Kuhl, I didn't want the records to reflect that 15 I thought we were at odds with each other 16 upstate/downstate. 17 I wouldn't want you to miss this. 18 I didn't want you to think that 19 we have an upstate/downstate war as you had 20 suggested. That is not what I was saying. 21 What I was saying, Mr. President, 22 was that we have different circumstances in the 23 City of New York, and the list of people that 5446 1 you read off or entities that you read off in 2 support, interesting enough, they are 3 corporations. They are business people. It's 4 like prisons upstate is the economic development 5 plan for upstate. These folks have an interest 6 because they are in business, and they are not 7 interested in taking care of where the real 8 impact is in the city, and that's the people of 9 the City of New York. 10 So it's not an upstate/down 11 state. It's a question of different 12 circumstances, and this is why we had suggested 13 or I had suggested this getting together, 14 because there's no war. There is just a 15 difference of circumstances, and people are 16 being impacted on, and this is why I made my 17 comments in support of the amendment. But it's 18 definitely not a war just different 19 circumstances, Senator. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: How do 21 you vote? 22 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5447 1 Gonzalez. 2 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I just want to explain my vote. 4 Senator Kuhl mentioned the 5 various people that are in favor of the 6 particular bill, but, however, the proprietaries 7 -- this is the -- the Security Guard Act was 8 the first time that the proprietaries are being 9 regulated, so, of course, they are very 10 apprehensive about the security and that they do 11 the things right. But whoever does it wrong, 12 pays for the whole state sort of any 13 unscrupulous persons. 14 So I'm voting in the negative on 15 this bill, but I think that we can get together 16 with both houses and work it out, as those point 17 that I said earlier. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Dollinger to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President. I'm going to vote in the affirmative 23 on this bill. I would simply hope that the 5448 1 sponsor might raise at least one issue in the 2 discussions about this with the Assembly if this 3 bill gets negotiated; and that is, to give the 4 various employers of the security guards the 5 ability to do the security checks themselves, to 6 do the fingerprinting, to do the background 7 checks. 8 If we instead of mandating them 9 to do it, empower them to do it, they can make 10 all these decisions on their own. I think 11 that's a better way to go. They can then raise 12 the level of their own security. Colleges can 13 advertise that these are fingerprinted and 14 background checked security guards, that they 15 are not just students who are walking around 16 with T-shirts on. I would rather do it from the 17 point of view of empowering them rather than 18 mandating that they do it. 19 But I'm going to vote in favor of 20 this. My hope is we'll get to that point, which 21 I think is the right place to be. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Dollinger is in the affirmative. 5449 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2 the negative on Calendar Number 1267 are 3 Senators DiCarlo, Espada, Galiber, Gonzalez and 4 Oppenheimer. Ayes 50. Nays 5. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: With my thanks to 11 Senator Present and Senator Stafford for their 12 cooperation, I understand that 1266 has now been 13 returned to the house. I ask that the vote be 14 reconsidered upon which it passed today. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 17 (The Secretary called the roll on 18 reconsideration.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is before the house. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. Again with the consent of Senator 5450 1 Stafford, may we lay this aside for the day. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 3 bill aside for the day. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 6 Calendar 907. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 907. 8 Secretary will read it. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 21, 10 Calendar Number 907, by Senator Levy, Senate 11 Bill Number 1113, an act to amend the Vehicle 12 and Traffic Law, in relation to requiring 13 suspension and revocation of a driver's license 14 after administration of a compulsory chemical 15 test. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. Nays 5451 1 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 6 Can we call up Calendar 1186. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1186. 8 The Secretary will read it. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1186, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 11 7975, an act to amend the Tax Law and the Social 12 Services Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Withdraw the roll call. Senator Galiber? 22 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5452 1 Explanation has been asked for. 2 Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 4 This bill would require the director of the New 5 York State Division of Lottery to enter a 6 written agreement with the Commissioner of 7 Social Services and, basically, that if anyone 8 wins a lottery of a million dollars or more that 9 they would have to pay back public assistance 10 benefits that they have received during that 11 time. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator yield 13 one question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Galiber. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, 19 usually when we put legislation in the hopper 20 it's as the result of some abuse or some 21 incident that occurred. Could you tell me how 22 many people who have been recipients or are 23 recipients of welfare have hit the Lotto? 5453 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: We don't know. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Do you believe 3 that any and all hit the Lotto? 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: We don't know. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: Did you 6 research this bill with you are cryptic yes or 7 noes? 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: As best as we 9 could, yes. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: Fine. Senator, 11 I was going to vote for your bill until I didn't 12 get any response. I get these cryptic yes or 13 noes, which I don't think is the proper way to 14 deal with the questions. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 16 I'd be happy to - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- Senator 20 Galiber - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Whoa, 22 whoa, whoa. Hold on here. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Would you yield 5454 1 for another question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 3 you yield, Senator? 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: In the course 6 of your looking into this, could you share with 7 us what the motivation was for your putting in 8 this piece of legislation? 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 10 I'd be happy to do that. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: In the six years 13 that I have served in the Senate, I have town 14 meetings throughout my district and, quite 15 often, it has come up by frustrated taxpayers as 16 to different abuses and systems in government, 17 and often this one comes up. People have said 18 to me people who use public assistance monies to 19 purchase lottery tickets and if they win the 20 lottery, why aren't they required to pay back 21 some of that taxpayer money, and it's not just 22 one or two times that I have heard this in the 23 six years that I've had the pleasure of serving 5455 1 in the Senate, but I hear this quite frequently, 2 and we tried to come up, Senator Galiber, with a 3 fair assessment here, and I don't have 4 information as to the number of people, but I 5 can tell you that's why we picked the million 6 dollar level. We certainly wouldn't want to do 7 it on any $10 or $50 or $100. We wanted to try 8 to be fair and equitable, but it has been 9 something that my constituents have repeatedly 10 asked of me, and we researched it and put it in, 11 and we think that it's very responsive. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: On the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Leichter. Senator Galiber has the floor. I 15 guess he yields to Senator Leichter? 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Okay. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 19 Libous, I was interested in hearing your 20 explanation. You said that people in your 21 district said that, while somebody is receiving 22 public assistance, if they take some of the 23 public assistance money and buy a lottery ticket 5456 1 and then they win a million dollars or more. 2 But as I read your bill, this would include 3 people who had been on public assistance for the 4 previous ten years, even though they were no 5 longer on public assistance. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: So it's not a 8 matter that they have taken money they have 9 received from the Department of Social Services, 10 but actually money that they may be gainfully 11 employed. 12 Let me ask you. Why didn't you 13 limit your bill then to those instances where 14 the people were still on public assistance. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 18 I think in responding to my constituents' 19 requests on the bill, they felt that the 20 assistance should be paid back, and that 21 ten-year period was a period that we thought was 22 a fair period to chose. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 5457 1 you would be good enough to continue to yield? 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'll be happy 3 to, Senator. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 5 suppose somebody is on public assistance and 6 then they get off public assistance and whether 7 by good fortune or by stint of hard work, for 8 whatever reason, they now become wealthy. They 9 become millionaires. Would be nice if they 10 return the money, but at the present time there 11 is nothing under law that requires that they 12 return the money. Isn't that correct? 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: What's that? 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: There is 15 nothing that requires that if somebody, let's 16 say, makes more than a million dollars a year 17 who had been on social services? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely not. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 20 Well, why didn't you cover that case, too? I 21 mean if you are going to make a general rule on 22 the obligation of people to return monies that 23 they received from social services when they 5458 1 suddenly found themselves in possession of a lot 2 of money, and it could be either by hard work - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Present, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm not going 6 to finish the question because Senator Present 7 has risen. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, sir. 9 Mr. President. It appears that 10 this may go into a longer discussion than I 11 would like to take place at this time, so I 12 would ask that this bill be laid aside with the 13 permission of the sponsor and take it up 14 tomorrow. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Libous, do you wish to lay the bill aside? 17 SENATOR PRESENT: One fast 18 question, Senator Galiber? All right. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Espada had a question, too. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: I see a number 22 of people would like to speak, so maybe we take 23 it up tomorrow. Lay the bill aside, please. 5459 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 5 I would like to announce an immediate meeting of 6 the Rules Committee in Room 332, and I would 7 like to ask the Senate stand at ease awaiting 8 the Rules Committee report, upon which that 9 receipt the Senate will adjourn until tomorrow 10 at 11:00 a.m. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: On behalf of 15 Senator Mendez, I would like to remind the 16 Minority that there is going to be a conference 17 right now in the Minority Conference Room. Some 18 members who are on Rules will have to go to 19 Rules, but everybody should start heading right 20 over to the Minority Conference Room at this 21 point. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes. 23 Could we do a little housekeeping before we 5460 1 have - 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Libous has motion. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 6 On behalf of Senator Seward, on page 39, I offer 7 the following amendments to Calendar Number 666, 8 Senate Print Number 7285, and ask that said bill 9 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 11 objection. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. I wish to call up Calendar Number 14 850, Assembly Print 11397. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Secretary will read it. 17 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 18 the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to the 19 reporting of crimes. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: I now move to 21 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 22 was substituted for my bill, Senate Print Number 23 7034 on 5/25. 5461 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is before the house. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 9 I now move that Assembly Bill Number 11397 be 10 recommitted to the Committee on Rules and my 11 Senate Bill restored to the order of Third 12 Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 16 I offer up the following amendments. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Amendments received. 19 Any other motions on the floor? 20 (There was no response.) 21 There's an immediate meeting of 22 the Rules Committee in Room 332. There is an 23 immediate meeting of the Minority in a 5462 1 conference. 2 The Senate will stand at ease 3 waiting for the Rules report, and then we'll 4 adjourn until tomorrow at the regular hour. 5 (Whereupon, at 2:02 p.m., Senate 6 was at ease.) 7 (Whereupon, at 2:28 p.m., Senate 8 reconvened with Senator Marchi in the chair.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Senate 10 will come to order. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 13 Could we return to motions for a moment? 14 In behalf of Senator Goodman, I 15 would like to please remove the sponsor star on 16 Calendar 780. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Without 18 objection. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 20 Can we return to report of standing committee. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino 5463 1 from the Committee on Rules reports the 2 following bills directly for third reading: 3 Senate Bill Number 443, by 4 Senator Stafford, Environmental Conservation 5 Law. 6 1946C, by Senator Larkin, an act 7 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law. 8 2456, by Senator Marchi, 9 Department of Environmental Conservation to 10 study the period of probable usefulness. 11 2813, by Senator Trunzo, 12 Retirement and Social Security Law. 13 3726A, by Senator Waldon, City of 14 New York to reconvey its interest in certain 15 real property. 16 4140A, by Senator Kuhl, providing 17 Thomas Cassidy credit for past service. 18 4303A, by Senator Connor, City of 19 New York to reconvey its interest in certain 20 real property. 21 4375C, by Senator Johnson, to 22 allow Paul D'Aversa to file a request for 23 retroactive service credit. 5464 1 4569B, by Senator Marino, 2 allowing Pauline Ogus to receive service credit 3 in the New York State teachers' retirement 4 system. 5 5096, by Senator Saland, an act 6 to amend the Tax Law. 7 5275D, by Senator Daly, an act to 8 amend the Public Health Law. 9 5384A, by Senator Spano, 10 Retirement and Social Security Law. 11 6306A, by Senator Holland, an act 12 to amend the Public Health Law. 13 6858, by Senator Trunzo, Chapter 14 787 of the Laws of 1934. 15 6897, by Senator Spano, State 16 Finance Law. 17 7214A, by Senator Cook, an act to 18 amend the General Municipal Law. 19 7231, by Senator Cook, General 20 City Law. 21 7330, by Senator Farley, an act 22 to amend the General Municipal Law. 23 7643A, by Senator Hannon, an act 5465 1 to amend the General Business Law. 2 7884, by Senator Daly, 3 legislative body of the county of Niagara. 4 7930, by Senator Hannon, Private 5 Housing Finance Law. 6 7942A, by Senator Wright, 7 Environmental Conservation Law. 8 8017, by Senator Mendez, City of 9 New York to reconvey its interest in certain 10 real property. 11 8066, by Senator Volker, amend 12 Chapter 68 of the Laws of 1968. 13 8102, by Senator Padavan, an act 14 to amend the Navigation Law. 15 8146A, by Senator Tully, 16 Executive Law. 17 8392, by Senator Tully, Public 18 Health Law. 19 8528, by the Committee on Rules, 20 General Municipal Law. 21 8579, by Senator Holland, General 22 Municipal Law. 23 8601, by Senator Seward, an act 5466 1 to amend the Canal Law. 2 8622, by Senator Holland, an act 3 to amend the Town Law. 4 8623, by Senator Saland, Family 5 Court Act. 6 8633, by Senator Larkin, an act 7 to amend the Town Law. 8 And 8641, by the Committee on 9 Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 10 All bills reported directly for 11 Third Reading. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Without 13 objection, third reading. 14 Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 16 There being no further business, I move that we 17 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCHI: Senate 19 stands adjourned. 20 (Whereupon, at 2:32 p.m., Senate 21 adjourned.) 22 23