Wednesday, June 29, 1994

6361 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 29, 1994 11 11:33 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 6362 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come do order. Ask the members to find 4 their places. Staff will find their places. 5 Ask the visitors in the gallery to rise and join 6 us as we say the Pledge of Allegiance to the 7 Flag. 8 (Whereupon, the Assemblage joined 9 in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 10 We're happy to be joined today by 11 a constituent of Senator Jones, Father Otto Vogt 12 of St. Paul of the Cross Roman Catholic Church 13 in Honeoye Falls, New York. 14 Father Vogt. 15 FATHER VOGT: I pray in the 16 Senate chamber that is hallowed by the voices 17 and labors of the yesteryears. I pray in the 18 presence of all of you who yearn to fulfill the 19 hopes of our tomorrows. 20 Lord, we lift our hearts and 21 minds to You in this gathering where decisions 22 and laws are written. May we, Lord, be wise 23 with the wisdom that comes from experience and 6363 1 insight, a wisdom that is just in judgments, a 2 wisdom and knowledge with the clarity of vision, 3 informed discussion and debate. May laws be 4 formed and fashioned for the common good and 5 respect the hopes and values of those we 6 represent. 7 Lord, renew again in us the 8 dignity and seriousness of our sacred office and 9 the challenging responsibilities of each day. 10 May we not be discouraged when the best is 11 rejected and when opposition is strong. May we 12 have the courage to be persistent in our work 13 when the rush of our daily tasks are distracting 14 to us. 15 Give us the blessing of a smile 16 and a sense of humor. Bless all who labor with 17 us, each Senator and their staff, those who 18 record our words, those who sit behind 19 typewriters and computers and FAX machines, 20 those who make our labors less burdensome. 21 Bless our loved ones who await our coming home. 22 We pray that in the decisions and 23 laws that we protect the security and needs of 6364 1 the young, the ill, the needy, the homeless, the 2 elderly. Guide and direct us to find the best 3 of answers to the painful concerns of our time, 4 crime in the home and crime in the streets, the 5 use of illegal drugs, domestic violence and 6 infidelity, the pain of the minorities, 7 unemployment, broken family life, people alone. 8 In these days of instant progress, instant 9 communication, highly technical research and 10 knowledge, we ask for discernment that our 11 decisions and our laws protect the rights, the 12 well-being and the labors of men and women and 13 our youth. 14 May we remember always that life 15 is precious at every moment of its existence. 16 May we remember and defend the dignity and worth 17 of every human person. Help us, Lord, to see 18 the good things in the unexpected places and 19 events, discover talents in unexpected persons, 20 in our busy moments to take time for prayer and 21 reflection. 22 I pray that we more deeply may 23 know that whatever we do God has a mark on it 6365 1 and is always with us. Let us love and serve 2 the Lord in his creation. May God our Father 3 bless us. May God the Son, who lived our human 4 life, be our example. May God the Holy Spirit 5 abide with us in our service to our beloved 6 people of our beloved state of New York. 7 Amen. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 9 of the Journal. 10 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 11 Tuesday, June 28. The Senate met pursuant to 12 adjournment. Senator Kuhl in the chair upon 13 designation of the Temporary President. The 14 Journal of Monday, June 27, was read and 15 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 17 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 18 read. 19 Presentation of petitions. 20 Messages from the Assembly. 21 Messages from the Governor. 22 Reports of standing committees. 23 Reports of select committees. 6366 1 Communications and reports from 2 state officers. 3 Motions and resolutions. 4 Senator Farley. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. On behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish 7 toi call up his bill, Calendar Number 967, 8 Assembly Print 9409A. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 12 the Executive Law, in relation to extending the 13 statute of limitations for certain actions and 14 proceedings. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 16 reconsider the vote by this Assembly bill was 17 substituted for Senator Skelos' bill, Senate 18 Print 6733B on 6-27. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 21 (The Secretary called the roll on 22 reconsideration.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 6367 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is before the house. 3 Senator Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move that 5 the Assembly Bill, Number 9409A, be recommitted 6 to the Committee on Rules, and Senator Skelos' 7 bill be restored to the order of Third Reading 8 Calendar, and I offer the following amendments 9 to that. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Assembly bill will be recommitted. The Senate 12 bill will be substituted. The amendments will 13 be received and adopted. 14 Senator Farley. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 16 Also on behalf Senator Skelos, on page 46, I 17 offer the following amendments to Calendar 18 Number 769, Senate Print 7012, and I ask that 19 that bill retain its place on the Third Reading 20 Calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Amendments are received and adopted. The bill 23 will retain its place on the Third Reading 6368 1 Calendar. 2 Senator Farley. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 4 Senator Volker, on page 8, I offer the following 5 amendments to Calendar Number 389, Senate Print 6 2629, and I ask that that bill retain its place 7 on the Third Reading Calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Amendments are received and adopted. The bill 10 will retain its place on the Third Reading 11 Calendar. 12 Secretary will call the 13 substitution or read the substitutions. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 6 of 15 today's calendar, Senator Johnson moves to 16 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 17 Bill Number 6901B and substitute it for the 18 identical Calendar Number 195. 19 On page 35, Senator Holland moves 20 to discharge the Committee on Social Services 21 from Assembly Bill Number 9264 and substitute it 22 for the identical Calendar Number 1390. 23 On page 36, Senator Lack moves to 6369 1 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 2 Bill Number 11660 and substitute it for the 3 identical Calendar Number 1399. 4 On page 36, Senator Mendez moves 5 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 6 Assembly Bill Number 11813 and substitute it for 7 the identical Calendar Number 1405. 8 On page 38, Senator Gonzalez 9 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 10 Assembly Bill Number 8213A and substitute it for 11 the identical Calendar Number 1416. 12 On page 38, Senator Velella moves 13 to discharge the Committee on Judiciary from 14 Assembly Bill Number 8125A and substitute it for 15 the identical Third Reading 1417. 16 Also on page 38, Senator Pataki 17 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 18 Assembly Bill Number 11451B and substitute it 19 for the identical Calendar Number 1419. 20 On page 39, Senator Seward moves 21 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 22 Assembly Bill Number 9275A and substitute it for 23 the identical Third Reading 1422. 6370 1 On page 39, Senator Seward moves 2 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 3 Assembly Bill Number 9524 and substitute it for 4 the identical Third Reading 1423. 5 On page 39, Senator Farley moves 6 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 7 Assembly Bill Number 11603A and substitute it 8 for the identical Third Reading 1426. 9 On page 40, Senator Holland moves 10 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 11 Assembly Bill Number 11407 and substitute it for 12 the identical Third Reading 1413. 13 On page 40, Senator Johnson moves 14 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 11546 and substitute it for 16 the identical Third Reading 1433. 17 On page 41, Senator Paterson 18 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 19 Assembly Bill Number 9459 and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading 1438. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 22 substitutions are ordered. 23 Chair recognizes Senator 6371 1 LaValle. 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 3 Let the record show that had I been in the 4 chamber when Calendar -- on Tuesday, June the 5 28th, when Calendar Number 1357, Senate Bill 6 Number 3674, was voted upon, I would have voted 7 in the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 calendar will reflect, Senator LaValle, that had 10 you been in the chamber on Tuesday, that you 11 would have voted in the negative on Calendar 12 Number 1357. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 15 recognize Senator Daly, please? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Daly. 18 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. Do 19 you have a privileged resolution at the desk? 20 Would you read the title, please? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Daly, we do. I will ask the Secretary - 23 Senator Daly, we have a resolution, 4076, at the 6372 1 desk. Would you like the title read? 2 SENATOR DALY: Yes, please. Just 3 the title. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the title of resolution 4076. 6 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 7 resolution, by Senator Daly, memorializing 8 Governor Mario M. Cuomo to recognize Labor Day, 9 September 5, 1994, as "Help Yourself, Buy 10 American Day" in the State of New York. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Daly on the resolution. 13 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 14 This is becoming an annual occurrence, and I 15 won't take too much of my colleagues' time 16 today; but since the purpose of this bill is to 17 heighten and renew the awareness of the 18 importance of giving preference to buying 19 products made in America, I will take some of 20 your time. 21 I stand before you, my 22 colleagues, bedecked in dazzling garb, a picture 23 of sartorial splendor with clothes all that are 6373 1 made, of course, in the United States, and very 2 proud of it. 3 In fact, my suit was made in 4 Rochester, if you remember; and my shirt was 5 made in the mighty metropolis of Medina, which 6 happens to be in the heart of my district in 7 Monroe County -- Monroe -- Orleans County, 8 Senator Padavan, and so on and so. 9 And, very frankly, my colleagues, 10 I rise to ask your support and to open up the 11 resolution to all of you who wish to join me. 12 As I said, this is something we do annually, 13 again, to keep before -- to try to keep before 14 the minds of the people of the state the 15 importance of giving preference to American 16 products when we go to purchase products at the 17 store. 18 The fact that we would pay 19 attention to whether or not a product is made in 20 America has a definite impact on the sales of 21 those products and, most importantly, on the 22 jobs of Americans. And that is the major thrust 23 of this legislation, to keep before the people 6374 1 of the State of New York the thought that they 2 can help their fellow workers in this state and 3 in this nation by giving preference to 4 American-made products. 5 Now, hopefully, we'll be able to 6 get the Governor involved this year. He has 7 been somewhat recalcitrant in the last two years 8 of becoming too involved. We think it's a good 9 idea. What we try to do is to surround -- I 10 should say surround Labor Day with this thought 11 and put together with the Governor, hopefully, a 12 program which will cross the state, which will 13 be seen and heard in every city and town in this 14 state so that the people of the state, again, 15 will remember that when they go to buy products, 16 please, let's give preference to those products 17 made by American workers. 18 And, my colleagues, I would hope 19 that you would all join me on this resolution. 20 And, Mr. President, if you would keep this 21 resolution open at the desk so my colleagues can 22 join me in this resolution, I would appreciate 23 it. 6375 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Daly, we will ask the Secretary to keep the 3 sponsorship open for the members that indicate 4 that they would like to add their names to the 5 list, or, Senator Present, is there a desire to 6 put everybody on? 7 SENATOR PRESENT: I would suggest 8 that we follow the past procedures. When the 9 sponsorship is open, we include everyone except 10 those who decline. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Daly, everybody in the chamber will be placed as 13 a sponsor except those individuals who indicate 14 to the Secretary that they don't wish to have 15 their name included as a sponsor. 16 The question is on the 17 resolution. All those in favor signify by 18 saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Those opposed, nay. 21 (There was no response.) 22 The resolution is adopted. 23 Senator Present, that concludes 6376 1 the housekeeping at the desk. That brings us to 2 the calendar. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 4 Let's take up the noncontroversial calendar, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the noncontroversial calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 9, 9 Calendar Number 432, by Senator Levy, Senate 10 Bill Number 79C, an act to amend the 11 Transportation Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 13 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 14 The Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 Secretary will continue to 21 calling the noncontroversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 560, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7207, 6377 1 an act to amend the Judiciary Law and the New 2 York City Civil Court Act. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 606, by Member of the Assembly Lafayette, 7 Assembly Bill Number 1302A, an act to amend the 8 General Business Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 715, by Senator Daly. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 19 Lay the bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 853, by Member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly 22 Bill Number 10877A, an act to amend the Mental 23 Hygiene Law. 6378 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 868, by Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 3354A, 13 an act to amend the Retirement and Social 14 Security Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6379 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1010, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 5679A, 4 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. Nays 13 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1106, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 18 8030A, proposing an amendment to the 19 Constitution. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a day 21 on this? 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6380 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 3 1247, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 4 8571A, an act to amend the Public Authorities 5 Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1287, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8605, 18 an act to amend the State Administrative 19 Procedure Act. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6381 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1290, by Senator - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: May I recall 14 1287, reconsider the vote by which the bill 15 passed? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 motion is to reconsider the vote by which 18 Calendar 1287 passed the house. 19 The Secretary will call the roll 20 on reconsideration. 21 (The Secretary called the roll on 22 reconsideration.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6382 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is before the house. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1316, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8392, 10 an act to amend the Public Health Law, in 11 relation to establishing a state plan for 12 hospice care. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 14 for the day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside for the day. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1321, by Member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly 19 Bill Number 3490, an act to amend the Family 20 Court Act. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6383 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1323, by the Senate Committee on - 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1326, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 1995B, 15 Education Law, in relation to enacting the 16 School Property Tax Reduction Act. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1330, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 22 4262A, an act to amend the Tax Law and the 23 Public Service Law. 6384 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1344, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 6 8440, an act to amend the Family Court Act. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1358, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 12 5499A, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. Nays 21 1. Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6385 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1359, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 3 5571, an act to amend the Public Authorities 4 Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. Nays 13 1. Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1363, by Member of the Assembly Casale, Assembly 18 Bill Number 9832A, an act to amend the Election 19 Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6386 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1364, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 9 7015, an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 12 The Secretary will read the last 13 section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1365, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 70 - 6387 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1374, by Senator Present. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1376, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 11 8398 - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1378, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 8520, 16 an act to authorize the Town of Massena, St. 17 Lawrence County, to construct office facilities. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 19 a home rule message at the desk. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6388 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1382, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 8684, 9 authorize the sale or lease of real property at 10 the Rochester Psychiatric Center. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1383, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 16 8694, Environmental Conservation Law. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Lay it 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1385, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 6389 1 8704, Social Services Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1386, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8739. 14 SENATOR COOK: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1387, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 19 737, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6390 1 1388, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 2 1064, an act to amend the Tax Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1389, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 15 4629C, to provide service credit in the New York 16 State Employees Retirement System. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 18 a home rule message at the desk. 19 The Secretary will read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6391 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. Nays 6 2. Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 7 negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1390, substituted earlier today, by Member of 12 the Assembly Eve, Assembly Bill Number 9264, an 13 act to amend the Social Services Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6392 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1391, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 3 6537, an act to amend the Tax Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 6 The Secretary will read the last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1392, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 18 6789B, an act to amend the Tax Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6393 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1393, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 8 6970A, in relation to creating the Local Cost 9 Containment Incentive Program. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1394, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 15 7056A, Administrative Code of the City of New 16 York. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 18 a home rule message at the desk. 19 The Secretary will read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6394 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1398, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8 8080A, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1399, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 21 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11006. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6395 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1400, by Senator Galiber, Senate Bill Number 4 8197, relating to retroactive granting of the 5 senior citizen exemption in certain 6 circumstances. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1401, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 19 8417A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6396 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1402, by Senator Sears, Senate Bill Number 8494, 9 to allow Joanne A. Taurisano credit in the New 10 York State and Local Employees Retirement 11 system. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 20 the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. Nays 22 3. Senators Dollinger, Gold and Leichter 23 recorded in the negative. 6397 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1403, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 5 8538, Administrative Code of the City of New 6 York. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 8 no home rule message at the desk, so the bill 9 will be laid aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1404, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number 12 8552A, an act to amend the Executive Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6398 1 1405, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 2 Committee on Rules, City of New York to reconvey 3 its interest in certain real property. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a home rule message at the desk. 6 The Secretary will read the last 7 section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1406, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 18 8584, in relation to providing a retirement 19 incentive for certain public employees. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 21 a home rule message at the desk. 22 The Secretary will read the last 23 section. 6399 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1407, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 11 8606, establish a moratorium on requiring any 12 disconnection from the Letchworth State Park 13 waterline. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: -- for the day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the 19 day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1408, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 22 8625. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 6400 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1409, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 5 8630, an act to amend the Penal Law. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1410, by Senator Stafford. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 12 for the day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside for the day. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1411, by Senator Libous, Senate Bill Number 17 8662, an act to amend the Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6401 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1412, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 7 Bill Number 8680, Administrative Code of the 8 City of New York. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 10 a home rule message at the desk. 11 The Secretary will read the last 12 section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1413, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 23 8681, an act to amend the Correction Law. 6402 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1415, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 6 5178C, restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to Tier II. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 8 a home rule message at the desk. 9 Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can you hold 12 that please? No problem. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1416, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 21 Committee on Rules, the City of New York to 22 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6403 1 a home rule message at the desk. 2 The Secretary will read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1417, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 14 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8125A, 15 an act to amend the General Obligations Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 6404 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1418, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 5 6693, Domestic Relations Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1419, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 18 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11451B, 19 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6405 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. Nays 5 1. Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1420, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 10 7494B, an act to amend the Economic Development 11 Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1423, substituted earlier today, by Member of 16 the Assembly Luster, Assembly Bill Number 9524, 17 Civil Rights Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6406 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1424, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7588, 7 an act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1427, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 13 7807, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 14 Law. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1428, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 20 7808, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 21 Law. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6407 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1429, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 4 7910, authorizing the Commissioner of General 5 Services to sell land to the city of Beacon. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 7 a home rule message at the desk. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1430, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 13 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11407, 14 Uniform Justice Court Act. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6408 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1431, by Senator Pataki - 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1433, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11546, 10 an act to amend the County Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1436, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 23 8556, an act to amend the Education Law. 6409 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 The Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1438, substituted earlier today, by Member of 15 the Assembly Wright, Assembly Bill Number 9459, 16 City of New York to reconvey its interest in 17 certain real property. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 19 a home rule message at the desk. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6410 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Present, that completes the noncontroversial 9 calendar. What is your pleasure, sir? 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 11 Let's take up the controversial calendar. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the controversial calendar. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 9, 15 Calendar Number 432, by Senator Levy, Senate 16 Bill Number 79C, an act to amend the 17 Transportation Law and the Education Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6411 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 3 the results when tabulated. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 432 are Senators 6 Cook, Daly, DeFrancisco, DiCarlo, Dollinger, 7 Kuhl, Libous, Maltese, Sears, and Wright, also 8 Senator Johnson. Ayes 32. Nays 11. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 10 a formal fiscal impact note at the desk. The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 560, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7207, 14 an act to amend the Judiciary Law and the New 15 York City Civil Court Act. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Present, an explanation has been asked of 19 Calendar Number 560. Senator Lack is not in the 20 chamber, at least he doesn't appear to me to be 21 in the chamber - 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 23 temporarily. 6412 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside temporarily. 3 Secretary will continue to call 4 the controversial calendar. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 606, by Member of the Assembly Lafayette, 7 Assembly Bill Number 1302A, an act to amend the 8 General Business Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 Senator Gold, did you have an 12 objection on this bill? 13 SENATOR GOLD: Go ahead. I'm 14 sorry. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6413 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 3 the last bill, Calendar Number 606: Ayes 42. 4 Nays 1. Senator Wright recorded in the 5 negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 715, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 1093C, 10 Environmental Conservation Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Daly, an explanation of Calendar Number 715 has 14 been asked for by Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 16 This is a bill that has passed this house 17 before, as you recall, as we were negotiating 18 with the Assembly. 19 Basically, the bill requires DEC 20 to include additional financial information in 21 its annual remedial plan update, The Annual 22 Plan. This bill has been around now for two or 23 three years. We have been trying to work out a 6414 1 final agreement with DEC and with the other 2 house. We passed this bill this year, brought 3 it back at the request of the Assembly, amended 4 it, added the word "contractual" in a certain 5 paragraph, sent it back to the Assembly. DEC 6 then decided they didn't want that word in, so 7 the bill was sent back here and, in fact, has 8 been taken out. 9 The bill is pretty much in the 10 same form it was when it passed the Senate in 11 the first place. The Assembly is on board and 12 expects to pass the bill and hopefully it will 13 pass this house. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 17 President. Just very briefly on the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter on the bill. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: As Senator 21 Daly stated, we have seen this bill before. And 22 I think we've pointed out some of the problems 23 that we have with this bill. 6415 1 Basically, it again imposes very 2 extensive reporting requirements on the 3 Department of Environmental Conservation, 4 doesn't provide a single penny to the Department 5 to do this job. I mean there is a limit to what 6 the Department can do with the resources that it 7 has when we keep on piling on this reporting 8 requirement, that reporting requirement. We 9 want them to do that. 10 And my objection is to the other 11 side of the aisle that loves to ask for these 12 reports and audits and other activities on the 13 part of governmental agencies but never wants to 14 pay for it. It's a wonderful world where we can 15 get government to do more and more at the same 16 time that we say that we want less government, 17 but we never have to pay for it. Well, in the 18 real world, you can't do that. 19 I also think that the information 20 required here is onerous. It's really not 21 necessary. It's not helpful or beneficial. 22 There are reporting requirements now where we 23 receive the information. 6416 1 You pass this bill, the 2 Department, instead of working to cleanup these 3 sites, is going to be spending all their time 4 doing paperwork for Senator Daly. I think it's 5 an unwise bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Oppenheimer. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'd just 9 like to reaffirm what Senator Leichter has 10 said. 11 The number of sites that would be 12 -- have required extensive reporting on them by 13 the DEC is approximately 1,000 sites. To 14 require quarterly reporting on 1,000 sites, 15 seems to me a very inefficient way to deliver 16 service. 17 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Daly. 20 SENATOR DALY: Senator, are you 21 aware that we dropped the site-specific 22 requirement in one of the older bills, the A 23 version? That is no longer required in this 6417 1 legislation, so they would not have to report on 2 the 1,000 sites. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would the 4 Senator yield for a question? 5 SENATOR DALY: No. I'm asking 6 you a question. Do you realize that the 7 site-specific requirement is no longer in this 8 bill? We took the bill out, and we took that 9 requirement out when we negotiated with the 10 Assembly. 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I'm 12 happy to hear that, Senator. Now, if you will 13 will yield to a question, please? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Daly, do you yield to a question from Senator 16 Oppenheimer? 17 SENATOR DALY: Certainly. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 yields. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator, 21 will you be good enough to tell me about how 22 many sites you think will be required to 23 report? 6418 1 SENATOR DALY: It is not a report 2 on individual sites. What we're trying to do 3 with this legislation, all we're asking is for 4 DEC to take information they already have to 5 gather. They are the ones that manage the Super 6 Fund. Now, we're told by DEC that the Super 7 Fund -- we're running out of money. Now, that's 8 something to be concerned about, and I think the 9 Senate and the Assembly should be aware of how 10 close we're coming before we run out of money. 11 So all we're doing is saying, 12 take the information you already have and put it 13 in your annual report so we can have, at least 14 on an annual basis, an idea of how much money 15 we're spending to remediate the sites that 16 require remediation in this state and how soon 17 will we use up that $1.2 billion, the bond issue 18 that was passed by the voters back in 1986. 19 Now, if we're concerned -- if 20 we're concerned about having the wherewithal to 21 clean up these sites, then shouldn't we know how 22 much money we've got in the pot to do it? And 23 that's all this bill does. They don't have to 6419 1 go out and - 2 I must say, Senator Leichter's 3 description of the bill was in my opinion 4 somewhat hyperbolic, somewhat exaggerated. The 5 information is there. This bill, as I said, has 6 been amended several times. If you look, it's a 7 C version. And even the original version was 8 amended from the first version two years ago. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR DALY: So there really is 12 not that much of a requirement, but I think it's 13 important that we stay on top of how much money 14 we have in the Super Fund, how much money we're 15 using up, because if we're getting close to 16 using up, then we might want to take action if 17 we still have sites which must be remediated 18 under the Super Fund. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: On the 20 bill. Thank you, Senator Daly. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Oppenheimer on the bill. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The fear of 6420 1 the DEC is that it's very difficult to estimate 2 how much of the site is remediated before the 3 final remediation of the site is complete. I 4 think they are concerned that it's hard to 5 acertain what portion is and what portion is not 6 remediated. 7 Thank you, Senator Daly. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 16 the results when tabulated. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. Nays 18 2. Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 19 negative, also Senator Oppenheimer in the 20 negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6421 1 1106, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 2 8030A, proposing an amendment to the 3 Constitution, in relation to the exchange of 4 certain forest preserve land. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think 8 we're on - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Is this 1105? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold, this is Calendar Number 1106 we're on. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm on the 13 wrong bill at the moment. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Oppenheimer passes. Senator Gold has asked for 16 an explanation. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside temporarily. 21 Secretary will continue to call 22 the controversial calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6422 1 1287, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8605, 2 State Administrative Procedure Act. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1290, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 8 443, Environmental Conservation Law. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Present, an explanation has been asked for by 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside temporarily. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1323, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 18 Bill Number 8641, an act to amend the Insurance 19 Law. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Explanation. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation for 22 Senator Solomon. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 6423 1 temporarily. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1326, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill 1995B, an act 6 to amend the Education Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Cook, an explanation has been asked for by 9 Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. As 11 we deal with the need to refashion our schools 12 moving into the 21st century, the question of 13 financing continues to rise up and, in fact, 14 overshadows all the other discussions to the 15 point where we are confronted with the reality 16 that if we're ever going to do some things that 17 we need to do in the education system we have to 18 put to rest some of these issues as they relate 19 to funding. 20 The property tax has become 21 oppressive for many people in this state, not 22 just senior citizens on fixed incomes which is 23 what we hear of often but even young families 6424 1 who are trying to establish their families and 2 their homes; that real property tax has reached 3 the point where people simply will not be able 4 to pay it much longer if it continues to 5 increase. 6 Furthermore, the atmosphere of 7 dialogue within communities where we should be 8 talking about how to improve the quality of 9 education is overwhelmed constantly by the 10 battle over taxes. We have this controversy 11 that is constantly before us with people who are 12 just good people just so overwhelmed with taxes 13 that they simply are not going to stand for any 14 more expenditures in the area of education. We 15 clearly have to do something, something to lift 16 that burden of property taxes from people in 17 this state. 18 We have done a great deal this 19 year in terms of the tax burden on a lot of 20 people. State taxes have been substantially 21 relieved. But aside from the additions of state 22 aid of various kinds that we have put in place, 23 there's really been nothing affirmative that the 6425 1 property taxpayer can look at and think that 2 relief is on the way. 3 Yes. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 5 yield, but if you care to finish your 6 explanation -- I thought it was an appropriate 7 time to ask a question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Cook, do you yield? 10 SENATOR COOK: Okay. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Cook yields, Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 14 think many of us for sometime have been saying 15 that we are very concerned about the reliance on 16 the real property tax, and we know instances in 17 other states -- I think Michigan was one - 18 sought to get way from the real property tax, 19 and it's not a good way to finance education or 20 to rely on it to the extent we do, and I agree 21 with you. 22 But what I'm concerned about, 23 Senator, and I don't see in the bill, is how 6426 1 we're going to provide the additional funds that 2 the state is going to have to provide. You 3 point out in your fiscal implication note that 4 the next year if we go into this system, if 5 school districts, the voters opt for this 6 particular means of financing that the cost to 7 the state is going to be $400 million, which I 8 think is probably a somewhat optimistic view. I 9 think it will be more. 10 SENATOR COOK: It's 11 three-quarter, Senator. In a full year, it will 12 about $6 million -- $600 million. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 14 Maybe that's why I'm off, but let me accept your 15 figure, whether it's 400 million or 600 million. 16 How are we going to raise your money? Are you 17 going to vote for increased statewide taxes, 18 income tax, sales tax, estate taxes, to make up 19 for this loss of real estate tax. 20 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 21 Can I answer that in about three different 22 ways? The first is that this year, Senator, our 23 increase in aid to education was in excess of 6427 1 $600 million, so there was enough money 2 appropriated this year in and of itself that 3 would have funded this program. 4 The second point is -- and I 5 think that perhaps it's the real telling point, 6 and, frankly since I've become chairman of the 7 Education Committee, I have become more 8 sensitized to this -- is that frankly, I'm a 9 little offended that nobody asks the question 10 of, "What kind of taxes are you going to impose 11 to pay for welfare?" or "What kind of taxes are 12 you going to impose to pay for the prison 13 system?" But when it comes to funding the 14 schools, "What kind of taxes are you going to 15 impose to pay for the schools?" that becomes the 16 first question that people ask. 17 The time has come for us to 18 change our priorities in this state. School aid 19 and education has become the last thing that we 20 look at. The crums that are under the table get 21 sent back to the school districts. We have got 22 to place this as a priority; and, frankly, 23 that's what this bill does. It says it's right 6428 1 up there with welfare; it's right up there with 2 prisons; it's right up there with state 3 operations. 4 It's one of those things that 5 we're going to have to put into the fiscal plan 6 of this state, and we're going to have to do it 7 in whatever the fiscal plan may be. I don't 8 want to say that we're going to impose another 9 tax for education. If you want to say, "Are we 10 going to impose another tax to pay for welfare?" 11 then we can say that if you want to say that. 12 But the point is we have had 13 $1-1/4 billion increase in state revenues on an 14 annualized basis since 1982. There is no reason 15 that in our fiscal planning we can't set aside 16 half of that annual increase in state revenues 17 and dedicate it to education. And I think that 18 that's what we ought to be doing up front. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 20 me just - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leichter, are you asking Senator Cook to 23 continue to yield? 6429 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 2 yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Cook, do you yield? 5 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, the 9 distinction between -- if we would say about 10 targeting a specific tax whether it's for 11 Welfare or Correction and so on, I think that 12 the example that you set forth isn't in point. 13 If we said, okay, we're going to 14 change the system of funding welfare. We're 15 going to take, let's say, the burden off the 16 localities, we're going to do this and that, 17 then I think it makes sense for somebody to say, 18 "Wait a second. How are you going to pay for 19 it? You are going to need additional revenue. 20 Then you would have a example that fits what you 21 are doing in in bill for education. 22 You are changing the whole system 23 of financing education, and what I'm concerned 6430 1 about, Senator, is that we've got another thing 2 which -- and I don't say this derogatorily, but 3 I've referred to it at various times as the 4 "Cook magic wand," which is, you can ask 5 government to do all sorts of things; you can 6 promise people all sorts of things; but you 7 never, never, never vote for taxes. 8 And I'm afraid, Senator, that we 9 may be going down this path, and I haven't found 10 that the Cook magic wand really does what I wish 11 it could do. We all wish we could wave a magic 12 wand. But the time comes when we've got to have 13 political fortitude to put money into the 14 programs that we're espousing. 15 And my question to you is, 16 Senator, if we find that we're going to have to 17 raise more money because now we find more and 18 more school systems opting into your system, 19 getting away from the real estate taxes, are you 20 going to vote to increase businesses tax? Are 21 you going to vote to increase income taxes? Are 22 you going to vote to increase sales taxes? 23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 6431 1 First, Senator Leichter, thank you for that 2 statement that I've never voted to increase 3 taxes. I certainly will be using that in 4 appropriate places this fall, because that's a 5 great testimony, and I appreciate that greatly. 6 The point that I am trying to 7 make, Senator, and that this bill makes is 8 simply this. We establish welfare as an 9 entitlement program. We have debt service which 10 is an entitlement program that we have to pay. 11 We know that we have to maintain the prison 12 system, the mental health system. And all those 13 things are worked into the budget into the 14 fiscal plan of the state. But education we 15 don't handle that way. 16 This is the leftover program. 17 And I am saying we give education the same 18 standing in the fiscal planning of the state as 19 we do all these other programs. And, Senator, 20 if we have to tailor programs to fit the amount 21 of money available, we should do it. But we 22 have not been doing that. 23 We have been letting the 6432 1 entitlement programs continue to grow, and we 2 have been letting education take the crumbs that 3 were left over, and I'm saying that is not 4 acceptable. 5 The time has come to put 6 education in there as an entitlement, as having 7 equal priority to everything else; that that 8 $1-1/4 billion growth in revenue that we're 9 having every year should be as much entitled to 10 education as it is to anything else. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Solomon. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 15 Will Senator Cook yield, please? 16 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Cook yields. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, do you 20 have any idea what the state gave in aid to 21 education this year. 22 SENATOR COOK: It's about $600 23 million. 6433 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: Total. Mr. 2 President. Will Senator Cook yield to another 3 question? 4 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Cook yields to another question. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, over 8 this period of time where you've cited the 9 increase in revenue as $1-1/2 billion, do you 10 know what the percentage increase for aid to 11 education has been? 12 SENATOR COOK: Senator, I don't 13 have that precise number. We do know that the 14 percentage of the budget dedicated to education 15 has dropped from 27 percent back to about 21 16 percent, which, again, is right in line with 17 what I was saying. It is not given very much 18 priority. 19 So in point of fact, our aid to 20 education has not increased at the same rate as 21 expenditures for other purposes. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 23 Will Senator Cook yield? 6434 1 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: But the amount 3 of money for aid to education has increased 4 substantially over the last few years, has it 5 not? 6 SENATOR COOK: Oh, of course. It 7 has. Which is exactly the point, Senator, but 8 it has not done it in any organized way, and 9 that's the second aspect of this bill because 10 the school districts will now know what their 11 education money will be from year to year, and 12 they can actually plan into the future, which is 13 something they are not able to do at the present 14 time. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 20 President. Will the sponsor yield to a 21 question? 22 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6435 1 Cook yields. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just explain 3 this if I -- to me, if I can, so I understand 4 it. How does the bill work? A local community 5 has an election, and there is a ballot 6 proposition in which they elect to join this 7 program, and then they slowly begin to phase out 8 their dependence on property taxes; is that 9 correct? 10 SENATOR COOK: Correct. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What happens 12 to the role of the local school board in setting 13 school fiscal policy in the community, then, if 14 they are elected? What's their role in this if 15 there are going to be optimal - 16 SENATOR COOK: Their role, 17 Senator, is that they will have an amount of 18 money within which they will have to function. 19 There will be a finite amount of money. This is 20 not unlike state department, not unlike State 21 University, not unlike everybody else that we 22 appropriate funds to, that there would be an 23 amount of money that would be that amount that 6436 1 was set aside, and they would know in advance 2 what that was going to be. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr. 4 President. Again if Senator Cook will yield. 5 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Cook yields. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there a 9 portion of this bill that allows local school 10 districts to elect to spend more than they get 11 from the state. 12 SENATOR COOK: Senator, no, there 13 is not, and let me tell you why. We are facing 14 a situation where in a number of states, 15 Washington, Michigan, Texas, to name a few, 16 there have been lawsuits in fact that have 17 challenged that very point that we are not 18 providing equal educational opportunities from 19 district to district. And that when states have 20 a constitutional responsibility for education of 21 children that that means that they have to 22 provide equal educational opportunity from 23 district to district. 6437 1 So, in fact, the first portion of 2 this bill is treated as a transition period. I 3 can also tell you that based on information that 4 we have, the federal Congress is very apt 5 shortly to pass legislation which is going to 6 not only leave that in the area of the courts 7 but, in fact, may be be affirmatively inspecting 8 the states to find out if they are following 9 that provision of equal educational 10 opportunity. 11 So the whole point of this 12 phase-in period is to move us toward the second 13 phase, which is the point where the state will 14 provide for an equal educational opportunity for 15 every student in this state, and that is the 16 reason why those local options are not permitted 17 in the bill. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 19 you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Cook, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: How does this 23 bill handle the variation in school districts? 6438 1 For example, school district A has a high number 2 of high-achieving students that they want to 3 give advanced placement courses to and 4 accelerated courses. School district B has a 5 large number of handicapping students that need 6 special education. The school district C has a 7 large number of students who are, for some 8 reason, at the local level of educational 9 functioning and need more remediation and more 10 effort in those areas. 11 How does this bill address those 12 differences which are now under our current 13 system left to local school districts to 14 preserve local decision making by locally 15 elected officials to decide those issues? 16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I 17 might take exception to your statement that it's 18 now left to localities because, as a matter of 19 fact, in most of the areas except in the gifted 20 and handicapped areas, there is very little 21 local discretion. They, as a matter of fact, 22 are pretty well mandated to provide those 23 services. 6439 1 This does not cover mandated 2 services of that type, and the reason that it 3 doesn't is for the very reason that you stated. 4 There are vast variations from district to 5 district in terms of special needs students that 6 are expenditure driven. Those things are 7 outside this bill. That is a different portion 8 of the budget. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 10 you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Cook, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Where would 14 the school district get the funds to pay for 15 those extra services? 16 SENATOR COOK: Yes. Senator, 17 that portion of the funding, which is 18 approximately perhaps 25 percent of the budget, 19 that stays outside this bill. This does not 20 affect those categorical things that are funded 21 in that way. 22 Now, I can tell you that I would 23 expect another phase at some point to bring that 6440 1 all into total state funding, but, frankly, 2 because some of what -- the concerns that are 3 being expressed here relative to the cost of 4 this, we are sensitive to that, and we are 5 trying to make this bill workable so we did not 6 lump everything totally into this bill in the 7 first place. 8 And the second thing is because 9 of the variables all over the state relative to 10 the very things that you were talking about, 11 they have been left outside this particular cap. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Just a 13 final question, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Cook continues to yield. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Describe for 17 me the role of a local school board if this 18 system becomes effective, where most of the 19 money for funding the schools as I understand it 20 will be coming from the state. 21 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What I heard, 23 at least in my district, is we have too much 6441 1 state involvement in education, anyway, and it 2 inhibits innovation and inhibits local decision 3 making. What's your vision of the role of that 4 locally elected group right from the community 5 that have been running the schools for years? 6 What do they do when this system takes effect? 7 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 8 The role of the local school board will be to 9 determine the apportionment or the manner in 10 which they are going to utilize this funding. 11 We have not written -- tried to write the second 12 piece of this, will is what happens when the 13 state is final totally funding the districts. 14 But, as I envision it, it would 15 be a formula that would basically say that there 16 would be so many dollars provided for each 17 students provided every place in the state, or 18 perhaps there would be regional variations. 19 Those are things that are going to have to be 20 worked out probably over a two-year period 21 because that's when we'd start getting the first 22 districts phased into here. But it would be the 23 role of the local district to say, well, we got 6442 1 a million dollars; we're going spend so much on 2 this program, and so much -- you know, salaries, 3 supplies, library, et cetera, et cetera. Those 4 are the kind of things that they would be making 5 their decision at the local level. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger on the bill. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate 11 Senator Cook sharing his vision with us about 12 what this would look like in the final end 13 result. Frankly, I'm not sure what to do about 14 it because I share portions of that vision, but 15 I think as a practical matter if you talk to a 16 local school board today what they would tell 17 you is, when the state money arrives, it comes 18 with so many strings attached to it that the 19 local ability to spend it as they see fit is 20 extremely minimal. We tell them what to spend. 21 The money comes from us. 22 We have a tendency -- whether 23 directly through our own statutes or through 6443 1 regulation, we tend to tell them exactly what to 2 do with the money, and the local options 3 disappear. The idea that we have 700 school 4 districts this state who are all out there 5 experimenting, trying different things, trying 6 different approaches to education, trying 7 different programs, I think that that ability to 8 have a whole bunch of educational laboratories 9 out there experimenting with education has some 10 value. 11 I do also think that the tendency 12 to rely extremely heavily on the property tax to 13 do it is something that is troubling. But it 14 seems to me the better approach would be to look 15 to a system of financing state education in 16 which we convert it really to educational 17 revenue sharing, where we give them the money 18 and allow them to experiment with it, to allow 19 them to innovate, allow them to address that A, 20 B and C school district that I mentioned a 21 minute ago. If there's a large number of gifted 22 and talented students, if there are a large 23 number of handicapped students, a large number 6444 1 of students for English as a second language, 2 all of those districts should have the ability 3 locally to try to figure out what's the best 4 solution, to use their own money locally and 5 devise their own programs. 6 I see the trend in trying to 7 achieve the goal of reducing reliance on 8 property taxes as leading to the potential 9 problem of having Albany make all the decisions 10 about education and the experimentation, 11 innovation that we need in our school systems in 12 this state, which we ought to be encouraging, we 13 will actually discharge. 14 So I understand the vision that's 15 attached to this. I think this is an early 16 step. I hope if this bill passes this house 17 that it may come back, and there may be more 18 information next time. But at least at this 19 state, I see it as defeating local control of 20 education and defeating local experimentation, 21 which I think is the area which holds the best 22 promise for educational advancement in this 23 state. 6445 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 2 recognizes Senator Wright. 3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. I rise in support of the bill this 5 morning. I would like to take the opportunity 6 to commend Senator Cook in his initiatives as 7 chairman of the Education Committee in the last 8 two years. 9 If you take a look at what 10 occurred in last year's budget and again in this 11 year's budget, you are saw that under Senator 12 Cook's leadership there were significant 13 initiatives to changing the formula as it 14 relates to funding education, and that they were 15 positive changes particularly for our Upstate 16 areas of the state, assuring that there was some 17 equity in that distribution. 18 And I see this legislation as 19 moving one further step in that same direction 20 under Senator Cook's leadership. Reducing the 21 dependency on property taxes is one of the most 22 significant issues in education throughout this 23 state particularly in the rural areas of Upstate 6446 1 New York. When you look at the requirements 2 being placed on the local property tax base, 3 that is not expanding and in fact, if anything, 4 is further eroding. And erosion of that revenue 5 stream only further restricts. Does not enhance 6 the local decision making of the school boards 7 but, in fact, restricts them because, in many 8 instances, the new dollars that are coming are 9 only state dollars, and they do not have the 10 capacity some of the larger areas of the state 11 have to draw upon their property tax base. 12 So it's extremely important that 13 we start to relieve those districts from the 14 additional fiscal burdens of property tax 15 increases, and make that transition to the state 16 funding. And I think the Senator has recognized 17 the best way to do that is to transition it, do 18 it over a period of time, and have the state 19 say, "Yes, education is a priority. We will 20 fund it with the broad-based state taxes to 21 ensure that there is equity for the children of 22 this state, regardless of whether they are from 23 rural areas, regardless of whether they are from 6447 1 metropolitan areas. They will access the same 2 broad state tax basis in ensuring that there is 3 funding and equity within education." 4 I think that's very clearly a 5 step in the right direction, a very important 6 step in the right direction for New York State 7 to say, "We, number 1, will relieve the burden 8 on property taxpayers," and the requirement I 9 think is a legitimate requirement, that half of 10 those dollars in increased state aid be directed 11 toward that property tax reduction, and then the 12 other half is available for those priorities as 13 the localities set aside. 14 I think that is particularly 15 important. And in terms of my school districts, 16 it's clearly a step in the right direction, and 17 I think you'll see a majority of the school 18 districts throughout the state positively 19 impacted by this initiative, and I want to 20 commend Senator Cook in the direction he's taken 21 and encourage my colleagues to support the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 23 recognizes Senator Leichter. 6448 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 2 President. Would Senator Cook yield, please? 3 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Cook yields. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 7 wonder if you would be so kind as to walk us 8 through how this would work for the City of New 9 York? You provide for vote by the school 10 district. We don't have any procedure now 11 whereby school districts in the New York vote. 12 SENATOR COOK: Senator, it would 13 be the same in each respective school district 14 because there are other cities, small cities, 15 for example, that have a different procedure. 16 Utilize whatever the procedure is currently for 17 adopting their budget. So that where you have 18 the city board of education adopting a budget, 19 it would be at their request that this would be 20 the manner of funding that they would receive. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. So 22 if I understand it, the board of education in 23 the City of New York would have a vote, and they 6449 1 would make the request for this optional form of 2 taxation -- I'm sorry -- optional form of 3 receipt of state aid. 4 Now, you provide that during the 5 transition period, when a school district has 6 certified to the Commissioner that the district 7 has elected to enter the optional system, the 8 school district will receive -- I can't find the 9 language at the moment, but it's a 10 percent 10 increase? 11 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: So if we do 13 this in New York City we will get a 10 percent 14 increase in our operational aid? 15 SENATOR COOK: In your operating 16 aid. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, I don't 18 know what our operating aid in New York City was 19 last year, but I think it was in the hundreds 20 and hundreds of million of dollars. 21 SENATOR COOK: It would be in the 22 billions I would suspect, Senator. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I would 6450 1 suspect it would be in the billion, so we do 2 this. We get a 10 percent increase. I have 3 difficulty, then, in understanding, Senator, how 4 you come at the figure of 600 million. Is that 5 because you phase it in over a period of years? 6 SENATOR COOK: No, it's because 7 -- yeah, over a period of time. That is 600 8 million per year, Senator, of growth. It's not, 9 you know, a flat $600 million. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 11 President. On the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter, on the bill. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 15 President. The nice thing about serving in the 16 Legislature, it's about the only place where you 17 can have your cake and eat it, too. You can 18 promise all these wonderful things. 19 And let me say, Senator, I think 20 what you are addressing is something that needs 21 to be addressed. There is no question about 22 it. Senator Wright is absolutely correct. The 23 burden not only in rural areas but the suburban 6451 1 areas, for that matter in the City of New York, 2 the real property tax has really been extended 3 to the point where it just can not bear any 4 longer the demands that are put upon it. 5 But this means that you got to 6 come up with an alternative system of financing 7 and that's, indeed, what Michigan did. They put 8 it to the voters, and the voters agreed to it. 9 But where, Senator Cook, I think you are having 10 your cake and eating it, too, is you are putting 11 forward this program that obviously changes the 12 whole manner in which revenue is raised not only 13 locally but in the state, but you fail to 14 address how are we going to raise what 15 eventually is going to put a much greater burden 16 on the State of New York, and I think it makes 17 sense. I would like to do it, and I will 18 promise you right here and now that I will vote 19 for the revenue for it, but I would like to get 20 that same promise from you and Senator Wright, 21 and I suspect that that promise is not going to 22 be forthcoming because it will be very nice to 23 go to your district and say, "I'm going to 6452 1 address the real property tax and I'm going to 2 lower it," but you are not telling them what 3 other taxes you are going to have to eventually 4 increase, and I don't think you are going to do 5 it. 6 You know, Senator Gold made an 7 excellent proposal some years ago that we have- 8 and it was a serious proposal -- that we have 9 some ideas or notions that really not be put 10 into a bill form but that they be put forward in 11 the idea of concepts and so on, and yours is a 12 concept and, furthermore, really ought to be 13 more in the nature of what I think is going to 14 be a press statement or press release; because 15 as a bill, to say we're going to change the 16 entire system of financing and then not tell us 17 how we're going to do this, I think is not fair 18 to the people of the state and it's misleading. 19 Let me say, we've had a lot of 20 high level commissions that have looked into 21 this, that have made recommendations. By the 22 way, none of that -- none of those 23 recommendations have ever been accepted by the 6453 1 Majority here that would have addressed, at 2 least in part, some of the problems of the 3 excessive reliance on the property tax to 4 finance education, also get rid of some of the 5 other disparities. 6 So you really have to ask 7 yourself, you know, how serious is this effort 8 when we've had a chance to do it. When we've 9 had the recommendations of very wise commissions 10 that have studied this, we failed to do anything 11 about it. As you know, there are court cases 12 now that are going to challenge the financing 13 system that we have for education. And 14 probably, in this particular instance, I think 15 the courts are going to do the right thing, and 16 they are going say that the financing system 17 that we have in this state is unconstitutional. 18 So let me say, Senator Cook, I 19 really unfortunately can't take this very 20 seriously. I think it's an expression of 21 something that we would like to do, "Wouldn't it 22 be wonderful if..." Yeah, I'll go along with 23 that. It would be wonderful. But, Senator, I 6454 1 would like to see the financing mechanism. 2 And what I need to see before I 3 can support such a thing is to know that the 4 majority in this house has the courage to vote 5 for taxes. I don't think you do. 6 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Cook, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR COOK: I've served in the 10 majority of this house for years - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Cook, I have a list running. 13 SENATOR COOK: I beg your pardon. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay? 15 Senator Stachowski. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the 17 sponsor yield for a couple of questions? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Cook, do you yield? 20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, I 21 was listening to the debate earlier, and you 22 said how this system will drive the various 23 school districts to an equal form of educational 6455 1 funding and that all students will then 2 eventually be treated equal. 3 How long will it take before - 4 for example, the students out West in Buffalo 5 and Erie County maybe average about $6,000 per 6 student in expenditures, while in Long Island 7 let's say $12,000 for an example. How are we 8 going to bring that together if they are all in 9 the system? And is it fair while they first 10 start out that they are still only getting half 11 as much per student in, say, Western New York as 12 they're getting in Long Island? 13 SENATOR COOK: Senator, we do not 14 attempt to address that issue in an immediate 15 way, because the practicality of it is that we 16 would, if we tried to do that, have to do what 17 Senator Leichter wants to do, which is double 18 the state income tax. 19 But this transition period we 20 recognize is a time that we're going to have to 21 move toward that. The answer in regard to a 22 specific school district, it depends on the 23 school district. If it is a district that has a 6456 1 relatively large, high operating aid formula, 2 then it will happen faster than a district that 3 has relatively low operating aid formula, 4 because it's 10 percent on top of the status 5 quo. So I really don't have an answer for you 6 on that question. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Oppenheimer. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I have 11 considerable concerns for the districts that I 12 represent. It is true that our property tax is 13 overburdened and that we have to look to 14 alternatives, and it isn't that I don't applaud 15 you for what you are trying to do, but it has to 16 take into account those suburban districts where 17 residents have been willing to tax themselves 18 because they feel that the education quality is 19 of such nature that they are willing to foot the 20 cost even though, at this point, after many 21 years of doing that, they are finding it 22 increasingly burdensome. 23 But we have what we consider to 6457 1 be some of the pilot districts of the state in 2 my county, and we feel that they are leading the 3 way in innovative education; and that were this 4 to pass, we would see a leveling down of 5 education rather than promoting a upward 6 movement to funding education at a higher level 7 and permitting all districts to try and rise to 8 the quality that we believe many of my districts 9 are at. 10 One thing that's very concerning 11 to me is that school boards would appear to be 12 losing some of their authority in this bill. 13 Would you care to comment? Would you yield for 14 that question, Senator? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Cook, do you yield? 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would 18 school boards still have the kind of authority 19 that they have now to determine the curriculum 20 and the education? 21 SENATOR COOK: Senator, school 22 boards would have all of the authority that they 23 currently have with one caveat in that they 6458 1 would have to do it. First, let's point out, as 2 pointed out by Senator Leichter, there is an opt 3 in provision, so the school district has the 4 option of either joining this or not. 5 But to get directly to your 6 question, assuming they did opt in, yes, they 7 have all the options the they currently have 8 except for one, and that is that they aren't 9 going to be able to raise their property tax. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 11 Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Cook, you are next on the list to speak if you 14 wish at this time, sir. 15 SENATOR COOK: I'll pass. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Cook waives, passes. 18 Senator Mendez is next month on 19 the list. 20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. Will Senator Cook yield for a couple 22 of questions? 23 SENATOR COOK: Sure. 6459 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 2 According to your vision if, in fact, you are 3 saying that the inequality that exists in the 4 funding throughout the state for the local 5 schools if that is going to remain that you did 6 not address that issue, then my question is 7 isn't this magnificent plan a way to use 8 education primarily to reduce property taxes? 9 SENATOR COOK: Senator -- is that 10 a question, Mr. President? 11 Senator, it is indeed a means of 12 reducing property taxes but I would also point 13 out that as that district has reduced the 14 property tax, it also has another five percent 15 increase in expenditure. So that, for example, 16 in the City of New York -- and I am now told 17 that this would be about $150 million increase 18 in the first year -- that that would be a net 19 $75 million in increase for spending on 20 education within the City of New York that would 21 be guaranteed under this bill. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: Uh-huh. Will 23 the Senator yield to another question. 6460 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Cook, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 4 SENATOR MENDEZ: You mentioned - 5 initially, when you were explaining your bill, 6 you mentioned debt service. 7 SENATOR COOK: Correct. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: And if I 9 understand correctly, your premise is that in 10 the same fashion that in state government there 11 has been an increase in entitlement programs, 12 however, education is not considered such. Am I 13 correct? 14 SENATOR COOK: M-m h-m-m. 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Aha! Therefore 16 -- therefore, would you be advocating in terms 17 of getting the monies to insure that this plan 18 of yours gets on, would you be considering for 19 the financing, let's say, increasing the debt 20 service, whether it's through bonds or some kind 21 of financial mechanism like that? 22 SENATOR COOK: Are you asking if 23 I would consider doing what with the bonds? 6461 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Like, for 2 example this transitional period would cost $400 3 million a year. 4 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Since you did 6 talk about debt service and you want to sort of 7 elevate education at the same level of other 8 entitlement programs -- right? 9 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Would you be - 11 to raise those $400 million, initially, or more 12 eventually, would you consider like having the 13 state increase its debt service through issuing 14 bonds. 15 SENATOR COOK: No. No, I don't 16 think that that would be a wise thing to do. 17 Actually, we're talking about operating 18 expenditures which are the actual cost of 19 running the schools. Building aid is, 20 incidentally, a categorical aid. That's not 21 included in this, so debt service for that - 22 Senator, just to clarify. My 23 point when I spoke of debt service was that 6462 1 there are certain things that when the Governor 2 sits down and writes his budget, proposes his 3 budget to the Legislature, he knows he has to 4 put in there. He knows he has to put debt 5 service in there. He knows he has to put the 6 money in for the entitlement programs. And this 7 simply says he also is now going to know that he 8 has to put money in there for education. 9 We have consistently seen budgets 10 coming before us where governors have proposed 11 $250 million, which is a pittance compared to 12 what they were spending on everything else. 13 This bill simply says to the governor, "Look, 14 that is a priority that is equal to all the 15 other priorities in the state; and when you 16 write your budget, you are going to have to put 17 it at the same level, give it the same priority 18 as everything else." 19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, 20 Senator Cook. On the bill, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Mendez on the bill. 23 SENATOR MENDEZ: I think this is 6463 1 a very good idea. At this point, however, there 2 are about -- as was mentioned earlier, there are 3 about four cases in court that will probably 4 come down with a decision that the way that we 5 fund our public school system is 6 unconstitutional. 7 So that at this point in time I 8 will not be supporting this bill. I really want 9 to congratulate Senator Cook because he has 10 brought over an issue that everybody has been 11 sweeping under the rug and that has to be taken 12 up, and the idea deserves greater consideration 13 or refinement. 14 So, but I will not be supporting 15 it at this point, because what really bothers me 16 is that I do not see in this transition period 17 an easiness of the horrible inequality that 18 exists in terms of how educational funds are 19 distributed throughout the state. Even within 20 my own district in the City of New York, in the 21 southern part of my district, the schools do 22 better than other areas, and I think that 23 eventually that is one of the most crucial 6464 1 problems that we have to deal with if we are 2 positioning ourselves in looking closely at the 3 realities that there is going to be a 4 transformation in the world of work through 5 technology and things of that sort. And if we 6 do not place more monies to educate our kids, 7 then our social programs could, in fact, grow 8 more in unemployment. Who knows, maybe more in 9 crime and all those other negative social 10 problems that none of us like to have. So that 11 education has to be the road to ensure that all 12 children will be able to move up the socio 13 economic level in our society and then 14 contribute to the betterment of all. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 It's interesting to see this bill 21 on the calendar today because, as I've mentioned 22 to Senator Cook in the past, I have a very good 23 friend in my district who is active in political 6465 1 circles and whatever. Every now and then -- and 2 in community circles -- and every now and then 3 at the end of a meeting on some Brooklyn 4 community issue, he will call me aside and he'll 5 say, "Senator, would you talk to Senator Cook. 6 I have a house in his district, and I'm getting 7 killed on property taxes, and we just have to do 8 something about it. It's just unreasonable." 9 So I sympathize with Senator 10 Cook's concern for what's happened with property 11 taxes in all the localities throughout New York 12 State. I certainly am not going to say it's not 13 a problem, but we have lots of problems, and 14 they are related. 15 The cost of education obviously 16 is what drives many of these local property 17 taxes. But, you know, really, it's a 18 complicated problem. It ought to be addressed. 19 It ought to be thought out. It ought to be 20 negotiated out. You have to give concern to the 21 state fiscal situation. You have to recognize 22 the tax burden that people in many localities 23 are under, and you, above all, certainly have to 6466 1 pay attention to the cost of education as well 2 as the quality of education, and, more 3 importantly, you have to look at equity in 4 education. 5 All of the children our state, no 6 matter where they reside, ought to be given a 7 first-rate public education. Our constitution 8 guarantees that. We haven't met that 9 responsibility. 10 But we have been assured by the 11 Majority Leader here that the session is rapidly 12 coming to a close, or at least it's coming to a 13 close, and this is much too big an issue to 14 simply put a bill on the calendar in the closing 15 days of the session, no real agreement with the 16 other house or the executive, no real consensus 17 throughout the state for revising the system 18 property taxation, for revising the method of 19 funding education. 20 These are weighty issues that we 21 ought to address, but I don't think with all due 22 respect to Senator Cook -- and maybe this gets 23 the ball rolling, maybe it doesn't. A lot of 6467 1 times we hear in the last days of the session, 2 "This will get the ball rolling," and we find 3 out, no, it will get the press release out at 4 the end of June and the beginning of July, and 5 we all come back or many of us come back -- this 6 is an election year. Many of us come back 7 refreshed in January, and we forget about the 8 issue for another year and a half until we are 9 back in this great political cycle or until 10 someone says, "Gee, the session's closing. I 11 better wheel out my bill to deal with property 12 taxes, education costs and so on." 13 The issue is certainly one that 14 bears attention, but it bears a lot of thought, 15 a lot of discussion, a lot of hearings. There's 16 a lot of expertise in our state to address the 17 various facets of this issue. 18 I don't really think, Mr. 19 President, with all due respect that it's useful 20 in this closing of this session to have a bill 21 like this that raises more questions than it 22 answers -- and there's nothing wrong with 23 raising questions, but it really does raise more 6468 1 questions than it addresses. The questions 2 ought to be addressed. They can't be addressed 3 in this fashion. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect October 1, 1994. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 17 Can we take up calendar 560. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse me. 19 Excuse me. Mr. President, can I explain my 20 vote? I had risen. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will withdraw the roll call on Calendar Number 23 1326. Recognize Senator DeFrancisco to explain 6469 1 his vote. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I just 3 wanted to mention that this question concerning 4 the proper way to fund education is one that has 5 been around for a long time, as everyone knows. 6 And I think most people agree that funding 7 education primarily by way of the real estate 8 property tax is not the most equitable way to do 9 it. The Governor in the "State of the State 10 Message" a while back, either this year or the 11 year before, suggested one way to have income 12 taxes at the option of the various counties be 13 one option. It didn't fly very well since many 14 school districts overlapped into different 15 counties, but at least it was an idea. At least 16 it was a thought, because there are court 17 challenges all over the country on funding 18 education simply by property taxes. 19 Although this may not be finally 20 adopted this year, I think it's extremely 21 important that such an enlighten approach, that 22 a phase in of a system other than property taxes 23 to fund education be begun, and this is a great 6470 1 first start, and I think Senator Cook should be 2 commended for the ingenuity of the bill and also 3 to start the discussion going, and hopefully it 4 will end very soon in a very favorable 5 determination by both houses and the Governor. 6 I vote yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 DeFrancisco in the affirmative. 9 Announce the results. 10 Senator Jones. 11 SENATOR JONES: To explain my 12 vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Jones to explain her vote. 15 SENATOR JONES: I have to say 16 that I share with my colleagues the same concern 17 over where the funding for this is going to come 18 from or how we're going to bring it about. But 19 I also guess I believe that maybe something 20 radical has to happen. Maybe that's the only 21 way that we're going to change this. That's 22 what happened in Michigan. That's what happened 23 other places. I'm well aware that we clearly 6471 1 have to help the property owner or I really have 2 grave concerns as to what's going to happen to 3 the future of education in our state, so I'm 4 willing to take a chance, you know, and I guess 5 I will be around to remind you when we start 6 divying out the money next year that we're going 7 to have to pay for this. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Saland to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Mr. President. I would like for 13 myself and I think for many others to join in 14 praising Senator Cook for his efforts. He is 15 dealt with this issue in a fashion that I think 16 is certainly entitled to the highest of 17 commendation. It's certainly not an easy topic 18 to deal with. It's one that's, to many, loaded 19 with a host of problems, a host of other issues 20 that spin off. 21 We all talk about the importance 22 of changing the system. We all talk about how 23 inequitable real property taxes are as the basis 6472 1 of wealth. 2 What Senator Cook has done, he's 3 been willing to take a leadership position on 4 this. And when you do that, obviously, by 5 getting out in front of the pack, you run the 6 risk, at times, of being sniped at. 7 Well, I commend him for his 8 willingness. I commend him for his effort. 9 This is a piece that really is, I think, the 10 major innovation that's been offered in either 11 house or by the executive really as long as I 12 have been involved in the system, and that's now 13 some 14 years or so. 14 It's a bill which, as I believe I 15 heard the Senator say earlier, really says for 16 all of us that pay lip service to education, 17 "We're making education an entitlement," the 18 same entitlement that so many other programs are 19 basically guaranteed. We are now guaranteeing 20 within our process pursuant to this bill a 21 funding mechanism that's going to provide for 22 expanded education while at the same time 23 providing a means to lower real property tax at 6473 1 the option of any district, including those that 2 may choose to opt out if they wish to provide 3 more local monies than would otherwise be 4 provided. 5 Thank you Mr. President. I vote 6 in the affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Leichter. Do you wish to 16 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 17 1326. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 21 Calendar Number 1326. 22 The bill is passed. 23 Senator Present. 6474 1 Senator Holland. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. With 3 unanimous consent, I'd like to be recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar Number 432. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, Senator Holland will be recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 432. 8 Senator Saland. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 10 If it's appropriate to do a little bit of house 11 keeping here, I'd like to star Calendar Number 12 790, Senate 3105; and Calendar 1414 and Senate 13 796B. And I would like to remove the star from 14 Calendar 478, Senate 5881; and remove the star 15 from Calendar 599, Senate 7327. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 17 The stars will be removed on Calendars Number 18 709, I believe, and 1414. And stars will be 19 placed on Calendar Number 478 and 599. 20 Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 22 Please remove the star on Calendar Number 492. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 6475 1 star is removed to Calendar Number 492. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 Please remove the sponsor star on Calendar 5 Number 794. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 7 star is removed on Calendar Number 794. 8 Senator Hoffmann. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 10 President. I was out of the chamber at the time 11 the vote was taken on Calendar 432. I would 12 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 13 negative on that bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, Senator Hoffmann will be recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 432. 17 Senator Mendez. 18 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 19 I was out of the chamber when the vote was taken 20 on Calendar Number 1326. I wish to be recorded 21 in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Mendez, without objection, will be recorded in 6476 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1326. 2 Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 4 Unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 5 on Calendar Number 432. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Larkin will be recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 432. 9 Senator Espada. 10 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President. 11 Permission to be recorded in the negative on 12 Calendar Number 715. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Espada will be recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 715. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 18 Can we take up Calendar Number 560. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 560, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7207, 21 an act to amend the Judiciary Law and the New 22 York City Civil Court Act. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6477 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Rath. 9 SENATOR RATH: Abstain. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Rath wishes to abstain, without objection. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: No objection. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 14 the results when tabulated. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 560 are Senators 17 Daly, Dollinger, Jones, Nanula and Wright. 18 Ayes 45. Nays 5. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 20 passed. 21 Senator Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President 23 can we take up Calendar 1106. 6478 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read Calendar 1106. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1106, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 5 8030A, proposing amendment to the Constitution, 6 in relation to the exchange of certain forest 7 preserve land. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. I will explain it. 10 This is a Governor's program bill 11 which has been agreed upon with the Assembly. 12 We have up in our area a beautiful golf course. 13 It is known as the Saranac Inn golf course. It, 14 of course, provides people recreation and is 15 very much part of the economy. It's not only 16 playing golf, but it's just great to walk around 17 it. 18 Now, it was determined a few 19 years ago that some of the golf course was over 20 on some state land. So what we have done here 21 is we have worked out a compromise, a 22 constitutional amendment, whereby the golf 23 course land would be deeded to the owner, but - 6479 1 but, the exact same amount of land from the golf 2 course would be conveyed to the state. So 3 that's where we are on it. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 5 Senator, for your explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Oppenheimer. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I am loathe 9 to take the opposite position to our good 10 Senator, who just spoke, but I feel I must 11 because the Saranac Inn golf course and the 12 country club, they have been using 8-3/4 acre of 13 forest preserve for many years as part of their 14 golf course. And that was inappropriate and now 15 they are looking to have it made legal. There 16 are, as we all know, historic constitutional 17 protections in the Adirondack Park; and the 18 Adirondack Park, this part, is under the forever 19 wild provisions; and that clause clearly states 20 that this kind of a usage is not permitted. 21 If there were identified some 22 other land that could be swapped for this that 23 might possibly meet the provisions of the 6480 1 forever wild clause, but that isn't enumerated; 2 and this is a very longstanding illegal use of 3 protected forestland, and I certainly don't 4 think we ought to be making legal what is 5 illegal in our constitution. 6 So I would urge all to oppose 7 this bill which is very much opposed by our 8 environmental groups in the State of New York. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 11 concurrent resolution? 12 Hearing none, the question is on 13 the resolution. All those in favor, signify by 14 saying aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Those opposed, nay. 17 (Response of "Nay.") 18 The resolution is adopted. 19 We will call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. Nays 22 3. Senators Dollinger, Leichter and Oppenheimer 23 recorded in the negative. 6481 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 resolution is adopted. 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Could you please 5 recognize Senator Markowitz for a moment? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Be happy 7 to recognize Senator Markowitz. 8 Senator Markowitz. 9 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: With 10 unanimous consent, had I been in the chamber, 11 yesterday afternoon, even though I had announced 12 it before I left, I want to be recorded in the 13 negative on Calendars Number 310, 799, 800, 801, 14 993, 994, 995, 998, 1133, 1238, 1239 and, today, 15 Calendar Number 715. 16 Thank you very much, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 19 objection, Senator Markowitz will be recorded in 20 the negative on today's Calendar 715. 21 The record will reflect, Senator 22 Markowitz, that had you been present yesterday 23 you would have been recorded in the negative - 6482 1 and had had the opportunity to vote you would 2 have voted in the negative on Calendars Number 3 310, 799, 800, 801, 993, 994, 995, 998, 1133, 4 1138 and 1139. 5 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: 1238 and 6 1239, did you mention that? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1238 and 8 1239. 9 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: And today 715 10 and 1106, I'm sorry. And 1106 in the negative, 11 as well. 12 THE SECRETARY: Today? 13 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Today, yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, Senator Markowitz will be recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 1106, today. 17 SENATOR GOLD: And Mr. President, 18 I think the report should indicated that Senator 19 Markowitz doesn't think too much of the bills we 20 did yesterday. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 6483 1 Can we take up Calendar 1290. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read Calendar Number 1290. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1290, by Senator Stafford, Senate Bill Number 6 443, an act to amend the Environmental 7 Conservation Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stafford, an explanation has been asked for by 11 Senator Gold on Calendar Number 1290. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 13 President. This piece of legislation is 14 introduced and it's been passed for the last few 15 years, and it's a very, very serious situation. 16 There is a difference of opinion about the PCBs 17 that are in the Hudson and how they should be 18 treated -- or removed I guess is a better word. 19 There are some people who maintain that actually 20 you can do it by breaking down the substances. 21 Others have said you should dig it up. 22 A plan has been suggested whereby 23 the PCBs will be dug up in the vicinity of 6484 1 Washington County and then placed in a landfill 2 right in the middle of a dairy area. And we're 3 very concerned about it. We feel it shouldn't 4 be done. And we're saying here that this would 5 have to be approved by the town where they are 6 considering putting the landfill. 7 I would emphasize again, one of 8 the great things in this country is we can 9 disagree. And belief you me, there is 10 disagreement on how these PCBs should be 11 treated. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 14 recognizes Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, let me just 16 yield to Senator Oppenheimer. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 18 Senator Gold. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: She 20 actually heard you. 21 Senator Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is - 23 once, again, I do like standing up and objecting 6485 1 to a bill that is Senator Stafford's, but this 2 really -- would be a very undesirable legal 3 precedent. 4 What this bill would say is that 5 a municipality unilaterally can reject any 6 necessary regional facilities that it doesn't 7 like. And there is absolutely no way we're ever 8 going to site anything, because if an individual 9 municipality can object, believe me, they will 10 be objecting. 11 This is going to codify "not in 12 my back yard," which we all know is NIMBYism. 13 It is very difficult to site an industrial 14 hazardous waste facility. It is one of the most 15 difficult to things to site along with some of 16 our group homes, but it obviously has to be 17 done. 18 We must clean up many of our 19 sites that are presently considered hazardous 20 waste sites. And if we have no place to put the 21 waste materials, we're at a loss. We can't 22 proceed with any cleanup. 23 Now, the PCBs have to be cleaned 6486 1 up from the Hudson River. Also we have 2 environmental hazardous waste in the Long Island 3 Sound. Our fisheries are in need of this kind 4 of -- of a site to put the waste, the hazardous 5 waste. It's an economic development issue as 6 well, and we can not proceed if we can not site 7 these regional facilities for the hazardous 8 waste. 9 So I think it's a terrible 10 precedent that we would be starting if we were 11 to say that a municipality can reject a site. 12 We have to look at what is the regional good and 13 do our best with sensitivity to site these 14 facilities in various regions around our state. 15 I would urge a no vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I would just 22 like to remind our members that the last time 23 this was around there were a substantial number 6487 1 of no votes on the issue, and the Scenic Hudson, 2 Inc., is opposed to it and the Department of 3 Environmental Conservation is opposed to it. 4 They are very much concerned about the 5 precedent. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 14 the results when tabulated. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 1290 are 17 Senators Connor, Espada, Gold, Leichter, 18 Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, Ohrenstein, 19 Onorato, Smith, Stachowski, also Senator Daly, 20 also Senator Oppenheimer, also Senator Present. 21 Ayes 41. Nays 14. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6488 1 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Lack. 4 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. If 5 I may make a unanimous consent statement. It's 6 an very important day here in our New York State 7 Senate. The reason it's so important, it's the 8 birthday of our chair of the Finance Committee, 9 the Honorable Senator Ronald Stafford. We all 10 wish Senator Stafford a very, very happy 11 birthday, but there's one more announcement that 12 goes with that; and that is, that Senator 13 Stafford just yesterday, and he doesn't know it, 14 has been named "Legislator of the Year" by the 15 Republican National Legislators Association, as 16 well, so that's, indeed, a very distinguished 17 honor. 18 So, Senator Stafford, 19 congratulations on your birthday and on your 20 status as Legislator of the Year. 21 (Applause.) 22 SENATOR LACK: And after the way 23 he debated the last couple of bills, there is no 6489 1 reason to call on him to speak. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 5 May I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 560. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 8 objection, Senator Libous will be recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 560. 10 Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: I like to be 12 recorded in the negative on 432. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Farley will be recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 432. 16 Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 18 President. I ask unanimous consent to be 19 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 432 20 and Calendar Number 560. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Nozzolio will be recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 435 and 560. 6490 1 Senator Stachowski. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 3 President. May have I have unanimous consent to 4 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 5 560. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Stachowski will be recorded 8 in the negative on Calendar Number 560. 9 Senator Seward. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 11 President. I also would ask unanimous consent 12 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 13 Numbers 432 and 560. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, Senator Seward will be recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Numbers 432 and 560. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Present, we have a message from the Assembly. 19 We can take at this time. I will hand it down 20 to the clerk -- the Secretary and ask the 21 Secretary to read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Assembly returned 23 Senator Libous' bill, Senate Bill Number 4473A, 6491 1 an act to amend the Social Services Law, with 2 amendments, to become Assembly reprint number 3 30004. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, the motion is granted. Concur in the 6 amendments. The bill will be restored to the 7 Senate Third Reading Calendar. 8 Chair recognizes Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 10 Let's go back to the regular order. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will continue the regular order beginning with 13 Calendar Number 1330. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1330, by Senator Seward, Senate Bill Number 16 4262A, an act to amend the Tax Law and the 17 Public Service Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6492 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Withdraw 3 the roll call. Senator Seward, an explanation 4 has been asked for by Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 6 President. This legislation deals with 7 gradually phasing out the gross receipts tax, 8 which is currently applied to utilities, the 9 telephone companies and the gas and electric 10 companies, utilities, and replacing that with a 11 net income tax. It's a phase-in -- or I should 12 say a phase-out, more accurately. It would 13 freeze the '95 liability to the '94 figure, so 14 it doesn't affect the fiscal plan for this 15 year. And then there is three years of 16 gradually phasing that down to 2 percent, and 17 then switching over in 1998, or following 1998, 18 to a net income tax. 19 I might add that the gross 20 receipts tax, even though it's not separately 21 itemized on the utility bill specifically 22 because of law, it is a direct pass-through and 23 paid by the consumers, and this legislation is 6493 1 all part of our effort to help with the economy 2 in the State of New York, because the reduction 3 of the gross receipts tax is a way to provide 4 some discernable relief in everyone's gas and 5 electric and telephone bills. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield 9 to one question? 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Seward yields. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in my 14 notes, I have a memorandum of support by the 15 Energy Association and by the Business Council 16 and by Con Ed. I don't have anything listed in 17 opposition. 18 But I just have one question. If 19 we pass this, first of all, is it passing in the 20 other house; and, secondly, would this affect 21 the State's financial plan? 22 SENATOR SEWARD: The second part 23 of your question in terms of affecting the 6494 1 financial plan, it is specifically written so 2 that it would not affect the fiscal plan for 3 this year, because of the -- we just hold 4 everything harmless, and so it wouldn't affect. 5 In future years, obviously, we will see some tax 6 revenue loss because of this, but that can be 7 dealt with in future years. It is not affecting 8 what's in place now. 9 In terms of the other house, this 10 specific bill does not have an Assembly sponsor; 11 however, my counterpart in the other house, 12 Assemblyman Tonko, has a similar bill. 13 Assemblyman Vann has a bill that would phase out 14 the GRT on telephone companies. There's a lot 15 of activity. I know the Governor is even 16 talking that way. 17 My hope is that by the passage of 18 this bill today, that it will be part of the 19 process of bringing all this together. There is 20 a lot of interest on the part of a lot of 21 people, and I hope you would join me in 22 supporting this bill to help spur those 23 discussions to bring this issue to a head for 6495 1 the benefit of everyone. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1344, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 14 8440, an act to amend the Family Court Act. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Wasn't that 16 starred already? 17 SENATOR PRESENT: On behalf of 18 Senator Lack, star the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 20 star will be placed on Calendar Number 1344. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1365, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 7024, 23 an act to amend the Labor Law. 6496 1 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Lack, an explanation has been asked on 1365 by 4 Senator Gold. 5 SENATOR LACK: Thank you. 6 Mr. President, Senator Gold, this 7 is an amendment to the legal activities bill. 8 In the bill, we've corrected a section placed 9 unintentionally in the law, which provided that 10 the remedy of public employees for legal 11 activities would not be within -- would not only 12 be the Taylor Law, Article 14 of the Civil 13 Service Law, but also under the legal activities 14 section of 201 (d) of the Labor Law. That was 15 not intended. 16 This is an agreement I made with 17 the administration and the Public Employees - 18 Employee Relations Board to add this provision 19 back in, which would maintain the exclusivity of 20 the Taylor Law. I note the opposition memo of 21 the AFL-CIO. They've made a mistake. The 22 example they use in their memo, a teacher who 23 would be covered under the Taylor Law goes to 6497 1 work in the summer for a hotel chain that 2 opposes unions, namely the Marriott chain, 3 because that's -- excuse me, Senator Tully, I'm 4 talking to Senator Gold -- the Marriott chain, 5 and is dismissed by Marriott because they're a 6 teacher engaged in union activities. That's a 7 mistake in the AFL's memo. 8 Since the hotel chain is not a 9 public employer, it's not covered under Article 10 14 of the Civil Service Law, and their example 11 it would be covered under the section 201 (d) of 12 the Labor Law, the legal activities statute, 13 which is what's intended. 14 What is not intended by legal 15 activities is a public employee with public 16 employer. That's still covered by the Taylor 17 Law, and that's all this bill would do. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 19 yield to a question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Lack yield? 22 SENATOR LACK: Yes, sir. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6498 1 Lack yields. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, when 3 we're dealing with the AFL-CIO, we're dealing 4 with people who are active in their lobbying and 5 rather sophisticated. If there's a mistake in 6 their memo, they make one comment in here: The 7 bill was available for amendment during its 8 original passage and nothing has happened. 9 Senator, why not deal with them 10 and have them either withdraw their memo because 11 it's incorrect or have them correct it and then 12 it would clear the air for a lot of people, but 13 right now, I -- I don't know whether this is a 14 two-house bill at this point. I don't think it 15 is, is it, Senator? 16 SENATOR LACK: Well, sure, it's a 17 two-house bill. 18 SENATOR GOLD: It is? 19 SENATOR LACK: It's in the Labor 20 Committee in the Assembly. This is originally 21 requested as part of -- when this was found out, 22 Senator, you remember when we were passing the 23 legal activities bill, it was too late to make 6499 1 any changes. We said that we'd do it. We said 2 we'd do if afterwards, and we agreed with PERB 3 to do it afterwards but, as you well know, you 4 don't need AFL to change their memo. You can 5 take it as a matter that the Public Employee 6 Relations Board can only deal with matters 7 affecting public employment, that that's all 8 they do, and obviously a hotel chain isn't, to 9 use the AFL's example a hotel chain, isn't 10 public employment; so there is no way the type 11 of example they use could be covered by PERB. 12 Very simple. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Mr. 14 President, on the bill. 15 I just wanted to make note - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold on the bill. 18 SENATOR GOLD: The memo is here 19 and it has not been withdrawn as far as I'm 20 concerned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6500 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 6 the results when tabulated. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar 1365 are Senators 9 Connor, Espada, Gold, Jones, Leichter, 10 Markowitz, Nanula, Ohrenstein, Onorato, 11 Oppenheimer, Solomon and Stachowski. Ayes 43, 12 nays 12. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Solomon. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 I'd like to have unanimous 19 consent to be recorded in the negative on 20 Calendar Number 1290. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Solomon will be recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 1290. 6501 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1374, by Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1376, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 8398, 8 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Jones. 15 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Would the 16 sponsor yield to a question, please? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Daly, Senator Jones has asked you to yield to a 19 question on Calendar 1376. 20 SENATOR DALY: Certainly, Mr. 21 President. Let me just - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Daly yields. 6502 1 SENATOR JONES: Yes, Senator. 2 When this came up in committee, what my concern 3 was, I guess, was minors who also rent limo's to 4 go to proms, and et cetera, and I guess it 5 wasn't clear to me, let's say they brought 6 alcoholic beverages to this limo. What then is 7 the light -- is this bill saying then no one is 8 liable if they're drinking under age? 9 SENATOR DALY: Well, this bill, 10 whether this bill was in effect or not, that 11 would be illegal. If this bill becomes law, it 12 is still illegal because minors cannot drink; 13 it's against the law. 14 SENATOR JONES: I agree. 15 SENATOR DALY: So this bill would 16 have no impact on that present statute that 17 presently exists. 18 SENATOR JONES: Would the Senator 19 yield to another question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Daly yield to another question? Senator 22 yields. 23 SENATOR JONES: Then perhaps you 6503 1 can clarify me -- clarify for me what exactly 2 this would do that it doesn't do now. 3 SENATOR DALY: Well, Senator, you 4 said you were concerned about minors as it is 5 now. The present law says they can't drink. 6 SENATOR JONES: Yes. 7 SENATOR DALY: This law would 8 also preclude them because it does not eliminate 9 -- I'm trying to think of the legal term, the 10 existing statute which says teenagers cannot 11 drink. They can not drink in limousines even if 12 this bill becomes law; it's against the law. 13 SENATOR JONES: Could I ask one 14 more question, please? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Daly continue to yield? Senator yields. 17 SENATOR JONES: My question then, 18 is it the person driving the limo', is it his 19 role to enforce it? In other words, if they get 20 into his limo' with alcohol, is it his job to 21 enforce it? 22 SENATOR DALY: He would have the 23 same responsibility, for example, as a bus 6504 1 driver would have. As you know, under existing 2 law, you can have alcohol in the bus and the bus 3 driver, the limousine operator, would have the 4 same responsibility, I think, that a bus driver 5 has. 6 This law is not intended to 7 change any other existing statute, or would not 8 impact. 9 SENATOR JONES: O.K. Thank you, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR DALY: You're welcome. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1382, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 8684, 6505 1 authorize the sale or lease of real property at 2 the Rochester Psychiatric Center. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 -- Senator Dollinger, you laid this bill 5 aside. Did you have a question of Senator Daly 6 on Calendar Number 1382? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, Mr. 8 President. I just rise to commend a number of 9 people, including Senator Daly, who have worked 10 on this project. I know Senator Jones and 11 myself, my colleagues in the Senate, in the 12 Assembly, Assemblyman Gantt, who is the Assembly 13 sponsor, Assemblyman Morelle, Assemblyman John, 14 all worked together on this project to try to 15 make this happen. 16 I think this is a good bill. I 17 simply rise to commend Senator Daly for his 18 leadership, and my hope is that my colleagues 19 will pass this bill. This is an important step 20 for a vital agency in the community of Rochester 21 that I represent, and I commend all those 22 involved for their work on this noble project. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6506 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 3 President. 4 I want to thank Senator Jones 5 particularly, and Senator Dollinger. I really 6 didn't understand this bill until they explained 7 it to me and, based upon their comments, I'm 8 going to support the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Solomon. 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, Mr. 23 President, I'd like to have unanimous consent to 6507 1 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 2 1106. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 4 objection, Senator Solomon will be recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1106. Secretary 6 will continue to call the controversial 7 calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1383, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 10 8694, Environmental Conservation Law and the 11 State Finance Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2 - 15 SENATOR GOLD: What Calendar 16 Number is this? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: This is 18 Calendar Number 1383 that has been called. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6508 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1386, by Senator Tully. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill 10 aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Temporarily. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 15 Temporarily. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1387, by Senator Holland. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senate Bill 737, 20 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 23 temporarily. 6509 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside temporarily. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1393, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 5 6970-A, relation to creating the local cost 6 containment incentive program. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 temporarily. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1399, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 14 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11660, 15 Surrogate's Court Procedure Act. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6510 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1403, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 6 8538, Administrative Code of the city of New 7 York. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's 9 no home rule at the desk, Senator Present. 10 We'll have to lay the bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1408, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 13 8624, an act to amend the General Municipal 14 Law. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 16 temporarily. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside temporarily. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1409, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 21 8630, an act to amend the Penal Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 6511 1 temporarily. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1413, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 6 8681, an act to amend the Correction Law. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 temporarily. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1420, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 14 7494-B, an act to amend the Economic Development 15 Law. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 17 for the day, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1424, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 7588, 22 an act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Which number? 6512 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 2 Number 1424 has been called. 3 Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, I just have one question on this bill 6 about what happens if they don't have Workers' 7 Compensation; can they sue directly? I know that 8 the sponsor is in the Chair, and I - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No 10 longer. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I have just one question for the 16 sponsor, and that is, if you don't provide 17 Workers' Compensation coverage and someone gets 18 hurt on a farm, and I know that farms are an 19 area of significant risk of injury, does the 20 injured person have a right to sue the farmer 21 directly, and isn't that more damaging 22 potentially to the farmer than to provide 23 Workers' Comp. or do I misunderstand the nature 6513 1 of the bill? 2 And again, I thank the sponsor 3 for coming down out of the Chair to answer this 4 question. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Happy to do that, 6 Senator Dollinger. 7 My understanding would be 8 certainly if there were not Workmen's 9 Compensation, Workers' Compensation, then in 10 fact an individual would not be hung up with the 11 immunity that they would from suing and, in fact 12 -- or being sued and, in fact, they would be 13 able to do that. 14 This exemption initially was 15 provided for farmers where the idea that there 16 are a lot of part-time summer help, kids from 17 school, children of the farmers themselves, and 18 what has happened is over the years with the 19 raising of the minimum wage, we've now taken 20 those people out of that part-time position and 21 as far as Workmen's or Workers' Compensation 22 relief goes or exemption goes, and we've put 23 that in a position now where the farmer is made 6514 1 to make that choice, whether they include them 2 with all those benefits and have to pay for that 3 or whether they don't provide the job to them, 4 and the latter has happened. 5 So what we're trying to do, by 6 this updating, increasing the amount of the 7 exemption, is to bring the statute current with 8 today's wages and bring it -- actually it's been 9 30 years almost since this exemption was set, so 10 that's the reason for the bill. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And again - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 13 Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President, I'm not -- because I'm not in the 16 farm business, really don't have any experience 17 with it, I'm not a good person to perhaps raise 18 this issue, but it seems to me that the 19 part-time worker, the student who is most likely 20 because of inexperience on the job or lack of 21 facility with equipment to be injured, and my 22 question is, do you really want to open up those 23 lawsuits, the potential for those lawsuits by 6515 1 inexperienced workers who will have the same 2 basic underlying claim against the owner and 3 operator of the farm? 4 Isn't there a risk that you'll 5 just encourage more litigation and create more 6 damage than if you provided Workers' Comp. for 7 them? 8 SENATOR KUHL: Well, I don't - 9 I can't give you an exact answer to that, 10 Senator Dollinger, but let me just put it in a 11 different perspective. This has been a request 12 that has come from the major representative of 13 the farm industry, the Farm Bureau. They've 14 said that that figure of $1200 as an exemption 15 to paying Workmen's Compensation is really no 16 longer adequate, and they need a higher level. 17 So they have made this as one of their 18 priorities on their legislative agenda for the 19 year, and so that would indicate to me that they 20 don't feel exposed in an additional way, that 21 perhaps their general liability policy would 22 cover those lawsuits which they're already 23 paying and there wouldn't be any increased 6516 1 premium, whereas having to include these people 2 under Workmen's Compensation coverage would 3 enlarge the premium and enlarge the cost and 4 perhaps make them less competitive with some of 5 their neighbors in some of the surrounding 6 states. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. I'll go 8 with the judgment of the Farm Bureau on this 9 issue, and I appreciate the sponsor's candid 10 response to my question. That was my question, 11 whether you would open the door to a potential 12 flood of lawsuits without the Worker's 13 Compensation protection, that you might be 14 creating a larger exposure that's overwhelmed by 15 the loss of limb or the kind of serious accident 16 that often happens on a farm often involving the 17 loss of limb or that kind of injury. Obviously 18 one of those verdicts could obviously make up 19 for a number of years of Worker's Compensation 20 judgments, but the farmers obviously know this 21 business better than I; so I will abide by their 22 judgment. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 6517 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Kuhl. I'm sorry. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 14 President. I was out of the room when we voted 15 on 1419, and I'd like unanimous consent to be 16 voted in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 18 Gold in the negative on Bill Number 1419. 19 Ladies and gentlemen, may I just 20 announce that the 1993-94 Senate portrait is now 21 on display in Steve Sloan's office, Room 321, 22 and please take a few moments to look at the 23 portrait and, if you're interested, you may 6518 1 order as soon as possible. 2 Senator Mendez, is that -- are 3 you voting -- Senator Mendez. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 7 Mendez. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Excuse me, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 11 Mendez. 12 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. I was out of the chambers, and I 14 wish to be recorded in the negative in Calendar 15 Number 1424. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 17 Mendez in the negative on Calendar Number 1424. 18 Senator Connor. Excuse me, 19 Senator Mendez, would you - 20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 23 Mendez in the affirmative on 1290. Senator 6519 1 Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you - 3 thank you, Mr. President. May I have unanimous 4 consent to be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number 1424. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 7 Connor in the negative on Calendar Number 1424. 8 Senator Espada. 9 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, I 10 too ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 11 negative on 1424. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 13 Connor, Senator Espada in the negative on 14 Calendar 1424. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Got it all? I 17 think we've - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: No. 19 Senator Present, the floor is yours. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take 21 Calendar Number 1393. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1393, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 6520 1 6970-A, relation to creating the local cost 2 containment incentive program. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 5 Explanation requested by - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 7 question? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: - 9 Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I was 12 just wondering why there were no Minority 13 appointments. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: There are no 15 Minority appointments. Membership -- well, 16 there are -- membership on the board shall 17 consist of the Commissioner of the Department of 18 Social Services. He's Minority. 19 SENATOR GOLD: I mean the 20 Minority Leader of each house, Senator. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Oh. We gave 22 two appointments to the Majority in the Senate 23 and in the Assembly under this bill, so there 6521 1 are Democrats, but they come out of the 2 Assembly. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I didn't 4 ask you whether you were appointing Senate 5 Democrats or Republicans. I asked why the 6 Minority Leader of the Assembly, distinguished 7 graduate of Cornell University, was not given an 8 appointment, nor is the Minority Leader in this 9 house who, although he does not have the 10 advantage of a Cornell education, is still very 11 bright and articulate and concerned. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: It wasn't done 13 in the bill, Senator, as you can see. It was 14 done with the Majority of both houses. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 17 section. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Slow roll 20 call. Five members standing. Slow roll call. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 6522 1 roll, Clerk. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill 3 aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 Senator Stachowski. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 8 President, can I have unanimous consent to be 9 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1106, 10 please? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 12 Stachowski in the negative on Calendar Number 13 1106. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1409, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 16 8630, an act to amend the Penal Law. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 19 Explanation requested. 20 Senator Maltese. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 22 this is an act to amend the Penal Law in 23 relation to the theft of telecommunications 6523 1 services and related frauds. Together with 2 great strides in telecommunications have come 3 the -- with -- have come thieves and scam 4 artists who seek to take advantage of new 5 technologies to commit scams and defraud persons 6 of fees, telephone fees, and deprive persons of 7 their credit card numbers. 8 With the use of cellular phones, 9 it has become possible by advanced methods to 10 obtain credit card numbers and to use those 11 credit card numbers and sell them and use them 12 for nefarious purposes. 13 What this bill seeks to do is 14 amend the present Penal Law to cover these new 15 methods of scamming and stealing and defrauding 16 persons who use telephone and cellular telephone 17 and communications devices. Among the -- among 18 the advances, if you will, as far as theft of 19 services is concerned has been the ability of 20 scam artists to access credit card numbers from 21 cellular telephones and then immediately put 22 them on the open market, make them accessible to 23 people all over the country and perhaps all over 6524 1 the world almost instantaneously, and defraud 2 the communications companies out of millions and 3 millions of dollars which then inures to the 4 detriment of legitimate users and increases the 5 cost of consumers and the telecommunications 6 companies. 7 This specific bill includes the 8 knowingly obtaining of telecommunications 9 service with fraudulent intent by use of an 10 unauthorized false or fictitious name, 11 identification, telephone number or access 12 device. This seeks to make unlawful the calling 13 of persons by scam artists and encouraging them 14 to either disclose a secret credit card number, 15 telephone credit card numbers, or accept the 16 cost of third-party calls or calls to their 17 number. 18 In addition, it increases the 19 penalties from the present crime, theft of 20 services as a misdemeanor, it increases the 21 penalty to a class E felony for additional -- if 22 a person has been previously convicted of a 23 telecommunications fraud or if a -- let's see, 6525 1 or if the value is over a thousand dollars. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 10 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Senator Goodman. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 15 may I please be recorded in the negative on 16 Calendar 868 and Calendar 1106. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 18 Goodman in the negative on Calendar 868 and 19 1101. 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: 1106. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 22 Present? Senator Hoffmann. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Could I please 6526 1 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 2 1365. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 4 Hoffmann in the negative on Calendar 1365. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 could we please take up Calendar Number 1413. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1413, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 10 8681, an act to amend the Correction Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the 14 Senator yield for a question, Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 16 Maltese, will you please yield for a question? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Who - 18 through you, Mr. President, who pays for the 19 cost to the correction officer in these 20 situations? 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Excuse me, Mr. 22 President. I didn't hear Senator Dollinger. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 6527 1 Dollinger, would you repeat the question, 2 please. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I 4 understand it -- through you, Mr. President - 5 this would presently permit the correction 6 officer to be accompanied by counsel, a right 7 which they presently don't have; is that 8 correct? 9 SENATOR MALTESE: That's 10 correct. The bill previously passed both houses 11 and was vetoed by the Governor, and this was a 12 compromise worked out by DCJS and the 13 Commissioner of Correction. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What's the 19 nature of the compromise that was worked out, 20 Mr. President, just so I understand it, as I 21 assume we passed a bill that was roughly 22 comparable last time around? 23 SENATOR MALTESE: This bill was 6528 1 vetoed by the Governor as overbroad and they 2 felt that it could have unintended 3 consequences. This would only apply to 4 correction officers being examined under oath by 5 the state Commission of Correction and not in 6 any other case. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. And just 8 so, again, I understand it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 10 Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: How, through 12 you, Mr. President, if Senator Maltese will 13 continue to yield. 14 Who picks up the cost of the 15 officer's securing counsel? Is that picked up 16 by the state or picked up by the officer? 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 18 it's my understanding, which I could end up 19 supplying that information to Senator Dollinger, 20 but it is my understanding that these counsels 21 would be supplied by the correction officers 22 union themselves and would not be picked up by 23 the state of New York. 6529 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. It would 2 be pursuant to union agreement, union contract, 3 as to whether the union were able to secure 4 reimbursement for attorneys' expenses as part of 5 that; would that be a fair assessment? 6 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 7 it would be covered not only under union 8 contract but by agreement between the officer 9 represented and the union itself. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 11 Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 13 section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 21 is passed. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Regular order. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6530 1 1427, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 2 7807, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 3 Law. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 6 Explanation requested. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside 8 temporarily. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1428, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 13 7808, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 14 Law. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, 16 explanation. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 18 temporarily. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Bill is 20 laid aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1429, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 23 7910, authorizing the Commissioner of General 6531 1 Services to sell certain land in the city of 2 Beacon. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Last 4 section. There is a home rule message at the 5 desk. Last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1431, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 16 8390, in relation to authorizing the conveyance 17 of certain property. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: There's a 19 home rule message at the desk. Last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 23 roll. 6532 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 4 is passed. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 7 Connor. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 May I have unanimous consent to 11 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 12 1106? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 14 Connor in the negative on 1106. 15 Senator Hoffmann. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would ask 17 unanimous consent to be recorded on 1106 also, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 20 Hoffmann also in the negative on Calendar Number 21 1106. 22 We have some substitutions. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 6 of 6533 1 today's calendar, Senator Stafford moves to 2 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 3 Bill Number 9005-B and substitute it for the 4 identical Third Reading 224. 5 On page 23, Senator Goodman moves 6 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 7 Assembly Bill Number 11668-C and substitute it 8 for the identical Calendar Number 970. 9 On page 40, Senator Nanula moves 10 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 11 Assembly Bill Number 11994, and substitute it 12 for the identical Third Reading 1437. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 14 Substitutions are ordered. 15 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 17 Lack. 18 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, on 19 behalf of Senator Larkin, I wish to call up his 20 bill, Print Number 7318, recalled from the 21 Assembly and now at the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Secretary 23 will read. 6534 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2 Larkin, Senate Bill Number 7318, an act to amend 3 the Real Property Tax Law. 4 SENATOR LACK: I move to 5 reconsider the vote by which this bill was en 6 acted. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 8 roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: The bill 13 is now before the house. 14 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, I 15 offer, on behalf of Senator Larkin, the 16 following amendments to the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: 18 Amendments received. 19 Senator Mendez. 20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 21 wish to be reported in the negative on bill - 22 on Calendar Number 1365. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 6535 1 Mendez in the negative on Calendar Number 1365. 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: You're 4 welcome. 5 Senator Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 7 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 8 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1365. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 10 Montgomery in the negative on Calendar Number 11 1365. 12 Senator Kuhl. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. Would you 14 take up Calendar Number 1393, Senator Holland's 15 bill, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1393, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 18 6970-A, an act in relation to creating the local 19 cost containment incentive program. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6536 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 8 Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Slow roll 11 call. Would the Sergeant-at-Arms notify the 12 members that there's a slow roll call on the 13 floor and ask them to please come into the 14 house. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator Bruno. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Connor. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 22 Connor. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: To explain my 6537 1 vote, Mr. President. 2 You know, I guess this bill, I 3 think we'll hear from Senator Holland, Gee, 4 there's no time to amend it because we're 5 getting out of here but, you know, we had a bill 6 earlier in the session that had a similar 7 oversight and the sponsor quite graciously 8 amended it to allow for appointments by the two 9 minority leaders. 10 There's no reason on something 11 like this to so construct it that -- that 12 minority political voices are stilled. Nobody's 13 saying give control to the two minority lead 14 ers. They're just saying give proper respect 15 and proper recognition and an opportunity for 16 information and input to the two minority 17 leaders. We've done this on myriad commissions, 18 task forces, special select bodies, and so on, 19 and therefore, under the circumstances, without 20 even getting into the merits at hand, I vote 21 no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 23 Connor in the negative. Continue the roll. 6538 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 2 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 4 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 DeFrancisco. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator DiCarlo. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, to explain my vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 14 Dollinger to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. President 16 I join my colleagues in the concern about the 17 appointment by a member of the minority in this 18 cost containment group. I think there are good 19 ideas that can come from this side of the aisle 20 and it's certainly through our appointments. 21 However, I'll be voting in favor 22 of this bill as I think there are certain other 23 aspects of it that merit my affirmative vote, 6539 1 but I join my colleagues in the protest. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DALY: Senator 3 Dollinger in the affirmative. Could we have 4 some order in the house, please. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 6 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: No. 8 Senator Farley. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 11 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Mr. President, every time it 16 seems like we're making some strides, we have to 17 go backwards, and I don't know why that has to 18 happen. Senator Holland, yesterday we had some 19 philosophical disagreements on issues, and I 20 think that that's something we're all prepared 21 for. 22 This is not a philosophical 23 issue. Whether or not this body likes it, 26 6540 1 out of its 61 members happen to have different 2 political ideas, and that is a substantial 3 number. The other house the numbers are a 4 little bit greater in terms of one or the other, 5 but let's face it, when we're talking about par 6 ticipation in situations such as this, when 7 we're talking about exchanging information, it 8 is so little on the scale of what human conduct 9 ought to be to other people that it belittles 10 the entire chamber when we do it, and we 11 shouldn't do it. We shouldn't do it. 12 Now, there's a lot of ways of 13 protesting it, and you know, we are trying not 14 to get into those situations, but believe me, we 15 are getting to a point when the system itself is 16 going to have to change. I mean some of the 17 things that go on here do not help people. They 18 don't help the legislative process. They don't 19 move things along. They are not up to what the 20 dignity of this chamber ought to be, and there's 21 no excuse for this one. 22 We had a bill the other day. We 23 laid it aside a couple times. The sponsor 6541 1 agreed to an amendment. We did the amendment 2 and then we were off and running. This is a 3 bill that could be amended very simply, Senator 4 Holland. We're in the closing days and, believe 5 me, the messages of necessity will start flying 6 like they always do and, if there's agreement on 7 this bill in principle of what it does, the 8 changing of the references to make sure that 26 9 members presently on this side have a voice will 10 not hold up the process. 11 So I'm encouraging everybody to 12 say no. I hope that's what we will do. I know 13 that some colleagues get very, very concerned. 14 They say, Well, there are merits to this. A 15 bill is not an idea. It's a specific piece of 16 paper that sets forth that idea and tells how it 17 will be administered. So while somebody can say 18 that the bill has a good idea, if it's not 19 administered properly, then something's wrong 20 with that bill. 21 I am not voting against your idea 22 at this point, Senator Holland. I am voting 23 against this bill. 6542 1 I vote no. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Gold in the negative. Continue the roll call. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Gonzalez. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Goodman. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Hoffmann. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explain my 14 vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Hoffmann to explain her vote. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: This is 18 another classic illustration of the end of 19 session crunch putting people between the devil 20 and the deep blue sea. 21 For members on this side of the 22 aisle who have been once again summarily closed 23 out of the process, a vote in opposition to the 6543 1 measure can be characterized later as a vote 2 against cost containment, of abuse, and who 3 would want to be put in that position. 4 The short descriptions given to 5 something like this in the newspaper don't go 6 into a lot of substance, certainly do not afford 7 us the opportunity to explain to the taxpayers 8 of this state the abuse of power that takes 9 place day in and day out in this chamber. 10 I understand everything that 11 Senator Gold said, and I agree with him right up 12 to the point of voting against it. I think that 13 it's essential to send a message that we do 14 support the message of cost containment in 15 social service entitlement programs. So I'm 16 prepared to vote for the bill, but I want to 17 make sure that it's clear to the people in the 18 48th Senate District that I do not like the way 19 that this particular bill has been produced in 20 this chamber. It is another example of the 21 secrecy and the closed door type of negotiation 22 that Albany has become all too well known for. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6544 1 Hoffmann in the affirmative. Continue the 2 roll. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Explain my 5 vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Holland to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: I guess no one 9 opposes the bill. It simply is a cost control/ 10 cost containment bill, encourages the individual 11 departments of social services to offer 12 innovative cost containment programs. It does 13 set up a board and, if that is the problem, let 14 me just tell you who the members of the board 15 are. 16 Members of the board are 17 Commissioner of Social Services; he's a 18 Democrat; the Commissioner of Health, he's a 19 Democrat; the Attorney General, he's a Democrat; 20 Commissioner of Mental Retardation, he's a 21 Democrat; the Commissioner of Mental Health is a 22 Democrat, Comptroller, he's a Democrat and two 23 representatives of the Speaker of the Assembly, 6545 1 they're Democrats I presume, and two 2 appointments of the Senate. So eight Democrats, 3 two Republicans. 4 You definitely are represented on 5 the board, and the idea is good. I suggest that 6 you approve cost containment, want to control 7 the cost of welfare and working from the bottom 8 up through the Department of Social Services, 9 individual departments of social services for 10 innovative ideas, and this board is a good idea 11 and I vote yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Holland in the affirmative. Continue the roll. 14 If I may, there's an awful lot of 15 talk in the back of the chamber. If you could 16 kind of hold it down, take those conversations 17 outside the chamber. 18 Continue the roll call. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 22 SENATOR JONES: Explain my vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6546 1 Jones to explain her vote. 2 SENATOR JONES: I guess I would 3 like to say just ditto to almost everything 4 Senator Hoffmann said. She's absolutely right. 5 I think it's very petty that we get down to even 6 have to worry about Democrat or Republican. 7 That isn't the point. The point is that a group 8 is disenfranchised, a group of people who have 9 good ideas who would like to talk about them and 10 would just like the opportunity to have them out 11 on the floor as a point of discussion. 12 I personally had a bill that 13 contained many of these things in it but because 14 my name is on it, that precludes that it's even 15 worthy of discussion. So the point to me it's 16 just another petty point, and Senator Hoffmann 17 expressed it perfectly. 18 I will vote yes on it because I 19 certainly support cost containment and would 20 like to see anything happen along that line, but 21 I'm sorry that it always gets down to this 22 pettiness that some of us don't have the right 23 to discuss things or be heard. 6547 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Jones in the affirmative. Continue the roll 3 call. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 6548 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino. 3 (Affirmative indication.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 5 Senator Markowitz. 6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 8 you call Senator Levy's name. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 12 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Montgomery. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 Senator Nolan. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 Senator Nozzolio. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Ohrenstein. 6549 1 (Negative indication. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: No. 3 Senator Onorato. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 8 like to explain. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Oppenheimer to explain her vote. 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: While it 12 can be said I just briefly support what Senator 13 Hoffmann and Senator Jones said, I'm voting yes 14 but I'm very disappointed that the Republicans 15 did not include one member of the Minority in 16 this house in this group to consider this. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer in the affirmative. Continue the 19 roll call. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki 23 excused. 6550 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Rath. 6 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Santiago. 11 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 13 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 19 SENATOR SMITH: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 23 (There was no response. ) 6551 1 Senator Stachowski. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: To explain 3 my vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Stachowski to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: We have a 7 problem here again with no Minority appoint 8 ments. Most members on the floor understand 9 this situation that had previously been going 10 on, but it seemed to disinvolve itself. 11 However, Senator Holland still 12 doesn't get it. He gets up after to explain his 13 vote and says there's this Democrat, that 14 Democrat, the Comptroller is a Democrat. That 15 doesn't matter. The point is that the Minority 16 Leader in the Assembly doesn't get an 17 appointment, and the Minority Leader in the 18 Senate doesn't get an appointment, and that's 19 the problem. 20 It's not the bill, it's not the 21 merits of the bill, and it has nothing to do 22 with you. The issue is we're trying to get 23 around that system. We're not trying to take 6552 1 control of these various appointments. All 2 we're saying is that there's 26 members here and 3 however many members in the Assembly Minority 4 that should at least have a voice on these 5 various commissions and committees and bodies 6 that we put together that handle these various 7 issues, and to disenfranchise all the people 8 that they represent just nonchalantly by saying, 9 Well, you know the Comptroller is a Democrat and 10 the Governor is a Democrat, that just doesn't 11 get it, and for that reason and not for any 12 reason but the merit of the bill, I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Stachowski is in the negative. Continue the 15 roll call. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stafford. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Stavisky. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Trunzo. 23 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye. 6553 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Tully. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Tully. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker 10 excused. 11 Senator Waldon. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Wright. 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Absentees. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 DeFrancisco. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 6554 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Gonzalez. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Kruger. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Nanula. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Nolan. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 15 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stavisky. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Waldon. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays 6555 1 15. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, 6 would you call up Calendar Number 1408, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1408, 8 the Secretary will read it. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1408, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 11 8624, an act to amend the General Municipal 12 Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Wait a minute, Mr. 16 President. Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Explanation has been asked for by Senator Gold, 19 Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 21 this bill would require that local government 22 employees cooperate with INS and not be 23 precluded by either local law or executive order 6556 1 from reporting illegal aliens who have committed 2 a crime or are in this country obviously 3 illegally. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 8 Padavan yield to a question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 10 you yield to a question from Senator Gold, 11 Senator Padavan? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 14 will. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Padavan, 16 yesterday at the Rules Committee meeting, we 17 discussed this, and I believe you indicated that 18 in the city of New York there is an executive 19 order that says that if the victim of a crime is 20 an illegal alien that a police officer may not 21 inform INS; is that right? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Executive order 23 precludes reporting by the police department of 6557 1 an illegal alien under those circumstances. 2 SENATOR GOLD: And what -- if the 3 Senator will yield to a question. Wasn't it 4 also discussed, Senator, that there's a new 5 mayor. If Mayor Giuliani doesn't like that 6 order, he can rescind that order and tell the 7 police to do something differently. We don't 8 need a state law; isn't that correct? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: There's also 10 Local Law 52 which was adopted by the City 11 Council that has a similar provision. In answer 12 to your question, yes. 13 SENATOR GOLD: And what is the 14 provision in the local law? 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Very similar 16 wording. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Well, what does it 18 say; what does it apply to? 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Illegal aliens. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Who does it deal 21 with, Senator? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: All illegal 23 aliens. 6558 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'm not 2 sparring with you. Who -- does it apply to 3 every City employee? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Every City 5 employee. 6 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Mr. 7 President, on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 9 bill, Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, we 11 discussed this bill at Rules Committee yesterday 12 and, while it may seem simple enough, it really 13 isn't. Here again, the state of New York is 14 being asked to undertake what are basically 15 federal functions, but I want to point out that 16 one of the functions that we're dealing with 17 here deals with police officers. 18 Now, in the city of New York we 19 have people, and it's no secret, there are 20 illegal aliens there, and we have made 21 provisions in the past so, for example, when 22 there was a census, the census was made very 23 clear that we wanted to know who is in this 6559 1 country and that the census officials would not 2 report to Immigration if there were people here 3 illegally, because it's important to know. 4 Now, in the police department, it 5 also has some significance. If you have a 6 woman, God forbid, who is an illegal alien and 7 she is abused or raped and is afraid to make the 8 complaint because now she will be turned over to 9 Immigration, what does that say and what does 10 that do? And then if you have someone who is a 11 serial rapist, by the time he gets to raping 12 someone who you determine is legal, they're 13 going to say, How come this guy committed four 14 crimes before and was never brought to justice? 15 The answer is there's a reason, a 16 social reason, why a former mayor determined 17 that the police department should not be turning 18 in victims -- victims in situations like that. 19 Now, if this mayor disagrees with it, let him do 20 something about it. There are also city 21 agencies that deal in all kinds of social 22 programs. Some of them involve -- are involved 23 with feeding children and taking care of 6560 1 families, and they have serious responsibilities 2 and they need the respect of communities. 3 Therefore, Senator - 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the 5 Senator yield? 6 SENATOR GOLD: Pardon me? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would you 8 yield? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Be glad to. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 11 would like to direct your attention to the bill 12 which is not very lengthy. It says: Where any 13 agent or agency reasonably suspects to have 14 committed a crime and be in violation of federal 15 immigration laws; so the issue here is, those 16 who are here illegally who have committed a 17 crime, not exclusive of one another, but 18 together. So I'm bringing this up because what 19 you're saying is not relevant. 20 This bill relates to those 21 individuals who are not only here illegally in 22 this country, but who have also committed a 23 crime. That's the narrow focus. It does not 6561 1 relate to illegal aliens who are in this country 2 who have not committed a crime. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Fine. Thank you. 4 Mr. President, as I was saying, 5 the fact of the matter is that people in the 6 City agencies have to deal with community and 7 they have to have a relationship and respect 8 with those communities and you don't create that 9 relationship and respect if people who do not 10 speak the language entirely perfectly and don't 11 understand everything are concerned that when 12 they deal with City government, they are in 13 jeopardy and jeopardizing other members of their 14 family. 15 Now, if the City Council wants to 16 revoke that legislation, they have a right to do 17 it. If the mayor wants to revoke it -- and the 18 mayor is now Republican -- he can revoke it, but 19 I don't think that we have to enter this field. 20 I don't think we are the guardian of the 21 Immigration and Naturalization Service; we're 22 not the guardians of the draft board. We're not 23 the guardians of the federal government, and I 6562 1 think that that is -- that is the simple and 2 really basic point, and I think that this bill 3 is a problem. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Call 9 the vote. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 1408 are 13 Senators Espada, Galiber, Gold, Markowitz, 14 Mendez, Ohrenstein, Paterson, Santiago and 15 Smith. Ayes 49, nays 9. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: The 17 bill is passed. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: 20 Senator Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Mr. President, unfortunately or 6563 1 perhaps fortunately, I was not here yesterday 2 but if I had been here, I would like the record 3 to record that I would have voted against each 4 and every bill that was on yesterday. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: All 7 bills, so ordered. 8 Senator Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 not being nearly as negative as Senator Galiber, 11 but sharing a lot of his sentiments, there are 12 only two bills that I would like to be recorded 13 in the negative with unanimous consent. They 14 were today, Bills 1326 and 1393. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: With 16 no objection. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 that was yesterday. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Yes. 22 Senator Paterson, 1393 was a slow roll call. We 23 can record you as, if you had been there, you 6564 1 would have voted negative. Hang on one second. 2 You voted no yesterday -- today. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: I already 4 voted, Mr. President? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: That's 6 what I'm told. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, then 8 I'll stand with the first vote, Mr. President. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. May I 14 have unanimous consent to be recorded in the 15 negative on Calendar 1418, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: With 17 no objection, so ordered. 18 Senator Kuhl? 19 Senator Santiago. 20 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 21 I'd like to be recorded in the negative on 22 Calendars 1106, 1365, 1290 and 1424. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: 6565 1 Without objection, so ordered. 2 Senator Santiago. 3 SENATOR SANTIAGO: I would like 4 to be recorded in the negative on 1408 as well. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: 6 Without objection. 7 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: So 9 ordered. 10 Senator Kuhl. 11 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 12 President. Could we have the Senate stand at 13 ease for a few moments. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: The 15 Senate will stand at ease. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, on 17 behalf of Senator Levy, I'd like to announce an 18 immediate Majority Conference in the Majority 19 Conference Room, 332, to be followed by a Rules 20 Committee meeting to be later announced off the 21 floor. The Senate will stand at ease awaiting 22 the report. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOLLAND: Senate 6566 1 will stand at ease. There will be an immediate 2 meeting of the Majority in Room 332. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 4 will come to order momentarily. The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 Mr. President, may I have 9 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 10 on Calendar Number 1408? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 12 objection, Senator Connor will be recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 1408. 14 Senator Galiber. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. I'd like 16 to have unanimous consent to be recorded in the 17 negative on Calendar Number 148. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 148. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: 705. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 705. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: 715. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 715. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: 1106. 6567 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1106. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Yeah, 1290. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1290. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: 1365. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1365. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: 1389. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1389. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: 1402. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1402. 10 SENATOR GALIBER: 1419. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1419. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: And 1424. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And 14 1424. Without objection, Senator Galiber will 15 be recorded in the negative on those bills. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you for 17 your patience. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 19 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 20 negative on following bills. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Stavisky will be recorded in 23 the negative on the following bills. 6568 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: 715. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 715. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: 1290. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1290. 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: 1326. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1326. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: 1365. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1365. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: And 1408. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1408. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: 1419. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1419. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: And 1424. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And 15 1424. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 19 will continue to stand at ease. 20 (The Senate stood at ease from 21 2:50 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Senate will come to order. The Chair recognizes 6569 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 4 Committee in Room 332. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 6 members listening to the chamber, immediate 7 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority 8 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of 9 the Rules Committee. The Senate will stand at 10 ease awaiting the report of the Rules Committee. 11 The Senate will stand at ease 12 awaiting the Rules report. Senator Present, we 13 have some housekeeping we could do if that would 14 be acceptable. Senate will stand at ease 15 awaiting the Rules report. 16 (The Senate stood at ease from 17 5:00 to 5:39 p.m.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: Mr. 19 President -- Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 21 would like to have unanimous consent to be voted 22 in the negative on Calendar Number 434. Thank 23 you, Mr. President. 6570 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Jones. 2 SENATOR JONES: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 4 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 5 1106. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: Without 7 objection, so ordered. 8 Senator Present. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we return 10 to motions? 11 On behalf of Senator Johnson, I 12 wish to call up his bill Senate Print 3187-A 13 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 14 desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Johnson, Senate Bill 3187-A, an act to amend the 19 Executive Law. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: I now move to 21 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 22 passed. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 6571 1 reconsideration.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 the bill now being back to the order of third 5 reading, I offer the following amendments. 6 On behalf of Senator LaValle, 7 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 8 Number 1060, Senate Print 5340, and ask it 9 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: 11 Amendments received. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: On behalf of 13 Senator Volker, I offer the following amendments 14 to Calendar Number 885, Senate Print 2109-B, and 15 ask the bill retain its place on the Third 16 Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: 18 Amendments received. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 can we return to reports of standing 21 committees. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: Reports 23 of standing committees. 6572 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 2 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 3 following bills directly for third reading: 4 Senate Bill Number 426-A, by 5 Senator Stavisky, an act to amend the Penal Law; 6 885-A, by Senator Saland, an act 7 to amend the Public Health Law; 8 2207-B, by Senator Hannon, an act 9 to amend the Public Health Law; 10 2553-A, by Senator Johnson, an 11 act to amend the State Finance Law; 12 2565-A, by Senator Mendez, Mental 13 Hygiene Law; 14 4675, by Senator Cook, an act to 15 amend the Social Services Law; 16 4711-B, by Senator Present, an 17 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 18 Act; 19 5176-A, by Senator Hannon, 20 General Obligations Law; 21 5507, by Senator Saland, Real 22 Property Law; 23 5994-A, by Senator Skelos, Public 6573 1 Health Law; 2 6560-B, by Senator Saland, State 3 Finance Law; 4 6651, by Senator Maltese, New 5 York to reconvey its interest in certain real 6 property; 7 6759, by Senator LaValle, State 8 Finance Law; 9 6884-A, by Senator Present, 10 Public Authorities Law; 11 6948-A by Senator Trunzo, Civil 12 Service Law; 13 7482, by Senator Volker, General 14 Municipal Law; 15 7616, by Senator Smith, city of 16 New York to reconvey its interest in certain 17 real property; 18 7731, by Senator Saland, Family 19 Court Act; 20 8070-B, by Senator Skelos, 21 Estates, Powers and Trusts Law; 22 8229-A, by Senator Levy, Real 23 Property Tax Law; 6574 1 8255-A, by Senator Trunzo, 2 Retirement and Social Security Law; 3 8321-B, by Senator Sears, amends 4 Chapter 147 of the Laws of 1994; 5 8479-A, by Senator Maltese, 6 Retirement and Social Security Law; 7 8527, by Senator Lack, 8 appointment of certain non-judicial officers and 9 employees; 10 8602, by Senator DiCarlo, Vehicle 11 and Traffic Law; 12 8653, by Senator Cook, making an 13 additional apportionment of building aid for the 14 Ellenville Central School; 15 8677, by Senator Maltese, Vehicle 16 and Traffic Law; 17 8722, by Senator Kuhl, Vehicle 18 and Traffic Law; 19 8728, by the Committee on Rules, 20 Public Authorities Law; 21 8748, by Senator Spano, 22 Retirement and Social Security Law; 23 8770, by Senator Stafford, 6575 1 Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law. 2 All bills reported directly for 3 third reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: Without 5 objection, all bills reported directly to third 6 reading. 7 Senator Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 9 on behalf of Senator Holland, I wish to call up 10 his bill, Print 7136, recalled from the Assembly 11 which is now at the desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Holland, Senate Bill Number 7136, an act to 16 amend the Tax Law and Chapter 491 of the Laws of 17 1993. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 20 bill was passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: Call 22 the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 6576 1 reconsideration. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I now offer the following amendments. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: 6 Amendments received. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 there being no further business, I move that we 9 adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LARKIN: The 11 Senate stands adjourned until 11:00 a.m. 12 tomorrow. Those in your office remember what 13 the presiding officer said, that he wanted 14 everybody here at 11:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Good. 16 (Whereupon, at 6:17 p.m., the 17 Senate adjourned.) 18 19 20 21 22 23