Saturday, July 2, 1994

7357 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ALBANY, NEW YORK 11 July 2, 1994 12 1:59 a.m. 13 14 15 REGULAR SESSION 16 17 18 19 20 SENATOR NICHOLAS A. SPANO, Acting President 21 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 22 23 7358 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 3 Senate will come to order. All please rise for 4 the pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 In the absence of clergy, please 8 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 Reading of the Journal. 12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 13 Friday, July 1st, 1994. The Senate met pursuant 14 to adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, June 15 30th, was read and approved. On motion, the 16 Senate adjourned. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Hearing 18 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 19 read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 7359 1 Motions and resolutions. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 4 Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 6 Calendar 1552. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 8 Secretary will read Calendar 1552. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1552, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 11 8150-A, an act to amend the Private Housing 12 Finance Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Present. 7360 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 2 Calendar 1527. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 4 Secretary will read Calendar 1527. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1527, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Bill Number 12107, an act to authorize 8 the Commissioner of General Services to sell 9 certain lands in Kings County. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 19 is passed. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 Calendar 1533, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 23 Secretary will read Calendar 1533. 7361 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1533, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 3 Bill Number 8839, an act to amend the State 4 Finance Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Read the 6 last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1562. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 18 Secretary will read Calendar 1562. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Lay 21 aside Calendar 1532. 22 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 23 ease.) 7362 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 2 Senate will come to order. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 can we return to reports of standing 6 committees? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 10 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 11 following nominations: 12 Member of the Citizen's Policy 13 and Complaint Review Council: Joseph W. Burke 14 of Utica. 15 Member of the Correction Medical 16 Review Board: Michael Baden, M.D., of New York 17 City. 18 Member of the New York Job 19 Development Authority: Karen Noble Hanson of 20 Rochester and David Peirez, Esq. of Great Neck. 21 Member of the New York State 22 Bridge Authority: Raina E. Maissel of Wappingers 23 Falls. 7363 1 Member of the New York State 2 Housing Finance Agency: Mark Russell Chassin 3 Chassin, M.D., of Slingerlands. 4 Member of the Board of Directors 5 of the New York State Science and Technology 6 Foundation: David N. Campbell of Buffalo. 7 Member of the Republic Airport 8 Commission: S. Lawrence Hornstein of Freeport 9 and Margaret Marino-Castaldo of Lindenhurst. 10 Member of the Small Business 11 Advisory Board: John Wang of Roslyn. 12 Member of the State Public 13 Transportation Board: Walter George Rich of 14 Cooperstown. 15 Member of the Stewart Airport 16 Commission: Arthur N. Wilcox, Jr. of Middletown. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 18 question is on the confirmations of the 19 nominees. All those in favor signify by saying 20 aye. 21 (Response of "Aye".) 22 Opposed, nay. 23 (There was no response.) 7364 1 The nominees are confirmed. 2 The Secretary will read. 3 Senator Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 5 I just want to inquire, was -- among the 6 nominees that were approved, was John Dyson 7 included - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: No. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- both as to 10 his appointment as a member of the MTA and also 11 his appointment as a trustee of Cornell 12 University? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Neither 14 of those were confirmed yet, Senator. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 17 Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 19 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 20 following nominations: 21 Board of Trustees of the City 22 University of New York, Jerome Berg of Staten 23 Island; Edith B. Everett of New York City; James 7365 1 P. Murphy of New York City; Harold Jacobs of 2 Lawrence; Herbert Berman, Esq. of Forest Hills; 3 and Herman Badillo of the Bronx. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 5 Marchi. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: I would suggest 7 that the bells be rung. I'm not going to call 8 for a slow roll call, but I don't -- I would 9 like to see at least some substance, some 10 presence here on the floor on the question that 11 we're -- the nominations that we are now going 12 to discuss. So if we can make an appeal for 13 those who are outside the chamber and within 14 range of our voice, that they be here, then I 15 think we might proceed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Could we 17 please ask the Sergeant-at-arms to ask the 18 members to come into the chamber. At Senator 19 Marchi's request, we're ringing the bells in the 20 Capitol and ask all Senators to please be 21 present in the chamber. 22 Senator Marchi. Can we please 23 have some order in the chamber. 7366 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Are you going to 2 -- will you please start the process. We 3 already have the name of Mr. Berg, right? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 5 question is on the - 6 SENATOR MARCHI: It was reported 7 earlier today. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 9 question is on the appointments and 10 reappointments to the Board of Trustees of City 11 University. There are five appointments, 12 Senator Marchi. There are five appointments 13 plus Mr. Berg from the previous list, so there 14 are six. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: That's correct. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we take up 19 the nomination of Mr. Berg first? 20 SENATOR GOLD: Without objection. 21 THE SECRETARY: The nomination of 22 Jerome Berg of Staten Island, member of the 23 Board of Trustees of the City University of New 7367 1 York. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 3 Marchi. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 5 Mr. Berg has not served on the board yet and is 6 going to be filling a -- well, a prospective 7 vacancy as soon as he occupies the seat. 8 He's uniquely qualified and has 9 been favorably reported out of committee. I 10 will reserve my comments for the balance of the 11 nominations. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 Since I was the one who asked 17 that Mr. Berg's appointment be laid aside, I 18 think that it's only fair that the record be 19 entirely clear that I did that in order to have 20 all of the nominees out here and that there is 21 nothing negative that I know of about Mr. Berg 22 nor should anybody interpret my request as being 23 negative, and I intend to support the 7368 1 nomination, along with my colleague, Senator 2 Marchi. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 4 question is on the confirmation. All those in 5 favor signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The nominee is confirmed. 10 Senator Present, shall we 11 continue with the -- Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 let's take up the other five nominations. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Board of Trustees 17 of the City University of New York: Edith B. 18 Everett of New York City; James P. Murphy of New 19 York City; Harold Jacobs of Lawrence; Herbert 20 Berman, Esq. of Forest Hills; and Herman Badillo 21 of the Bronx. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 23 Marchi. 7369 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 2 if I were voting on an individual basis, I would 3 indicate some selectivity, but I will vote and I 4 will oppose the -- personally, just my own vote, 5 on the collective group, and I'm doing this for 6 the purpose of giving visibility to a situation, 7 I think, that requires a lot of attention and 8 understanding of the trauma and the distress 9 that the people of my community have suffered as 10 a result of inadvertence and unfairness, I 11 think, with respect to President Volpe. 12 President Volpe was the president 13 of the College of Staten Island and was 14 summarily dismissed and in a process which 15 partially made up the treatment that he was 16 accorded following the dedication of the 17 consolidated campus which he played a material 18 role in bringing about. 19 The situation that I'm going to 20 point to, I think it ought to be noticed by 21 those who are in a position to influence the 22 course of events in the future. We have 21 23 separate institutions in the City University of 7370 1 New York, the graduate school and university 2 center, and I -- these names may or may not be 3 obsolete, but the pattern is unique and 4 consistent: 5 Dr. Frances Degen Horowitz, 6 Bernard Baruch College; Matthew Goldstein, 7 Brooklyn College; Vernon Latin, the City 8 College; and that may be a vacancy here, but is 9 Dr. Yolanda Moses. I'm not sure. Hunter 10 College, Dr. Paul LeClerc; John Jay College of 11 Criminal Justice, Gerald Lynch; Herbert Lehman 12 College, Ricardo Fernandez; New York City 13 Technical College, Charles Merideth; City 14 University Medical School and Sophie Davis 15 School of Biomedical Education, Dean Stanford 16 Roman, Dr.; City University of the School of Law 17 at Queens College, Haywood Burns; Queens 18 College, Dr. Shirley Strum Kenny who now is in 19 Stony Brook, I believe; the College of Staten 20 Island, Dr. Marlene Springer, a southerner who 21 brought excellent credentials. She was selected 22 in consideration of two candidates, both of whom 23 were acknowledged as possessing superior 7371 1 qualities and qualifications for the office that 2 they were seeking. She is presently the 3 president of the College of Staten Island. I 4 have no quarrel with Dr. Springer, and I wish 5 her well in her missions. She brought her 6 qualities in good faith and was -- did have the 7 substance to bring to her candidacy. 8 York College, Josephine Davis; 9 Bronx Community College, Leo Corbin -- Corbie 10 (Acting); Eugenio Maria De Hostos Community 11 College, Dr. Isaura Santiago Santiago; 12 Kingsborough Community College, Leon Goldstein; 13 Fiorello La Guardia College, Raymond Bowen; 14 Borough of Manhattan Community College, Dr. 15 Stephen Curtis; Medgar Evers, Edison O. Jackson 16 and Queensborough Community College, Dr. Kurt 17 Schmeller. 18 You will notice, Mr. President, 19 that we have 21 institutions and 21 presidents, 20 none of whom are of Italian origin. I have 21 taken great pains to point out that I am not a 22 professional ethnic and there is no seat that I 23 feel should be required to any special category 7372 1 other than the qualifications that they bring, 2 but in a university, urban university, you will 3 notice that there is great attention paid to the 4 host community in which they are -- and the host 5 constituency in which they are serving, and this 6 has been uniformly respected, in each and every 7 case. 8 Now, it can't be when there was a 9 choice between a Dr. Springer who was qualified 10 and a Dr. Carrubba, Robert W. Carrubba, who is a 11 New Yorker, a Danforth Foundation teacher fellow 12 with a doctorate from Princeton University; at 13 Pennsylvania State University, Professor of 14 Classics; an associate dean of the graduate 15 school; American Council of Education fellow in 16 academic administration; classicist in both 17 Latin and Greek, treasurer of the American 18 Philosophical -- Philological Association, six 19 years; the founding dean of the graduate school 20 of the University of North Carolina and provost 21 and vice-chancellor of the University of 22 Wisconsin, acknowledged as having comparable 23 qualities to the candidate that was selected. 7373 1 I was informed by the chancellor 2 that the -- there was a preference on the part 3 of the constituent groups for Dr. Springer, and 4 there was a slight preference for that reason. 5 My speaking to constituent groups did not 6 indicate that there was a fairly even division. 7 Now, what was the expectation of 8 the people of Staten Island? I point out the 9 fact that they probably had the largest Italo 10 American population proportionately of any 11 county in the state of New York. There had been 12 this traumatic experience of seeing at least for 13 a few days, the humiliation that was inflicted 14 on Dr. Volpe, and there was partial -- there was 15 a partial making up of what had happened, but 16 nevertheless, it did leave a troubled 17 constituency out there with the circumstances 18 that had occurred. So the expectation was that 19 here was the only -- the only Italian-American 20 who is serving as president of one of the 21; 21 suddenly there are none. 22 Now, I ask you, what is the 23 matter -- what was the matter with Robert W. 7374 1 Carrubba? Was he chopped liver? Was he someone 2 that -- beyond serious consideration? In a 3 situation as close as that where they -- where 4 there was an honest differences of opinion but 5 agreement on the fact that both were qualified, 6 we continue the same pattern that we have known 7 before. 8 Was I trying to make this an 9 Italian seat? No, because if I may name the 10 person who came from Staten Island that I 11 suggested that he submit his name, and you would 12 know him if I mentioned his name, was uniquely 13 qualified, and I think would have been accepted 14 into that community and he was not of Italian 15 origin. 16 I don't want to point an accusing 17 finger at a particular individual, because I 18 think there's a mind set here that these things 19 could be assayed with indifference, that there 20 wasn't an interest in seeing this take place, in 21 seeing that fairness was indulged in in making a 22 selection of a figure, and you have to remember 23 that this is Staten Island, a very -- a 7375 1 community that is very inclusive, that knows 2 each other, and extensive networking. Dr. Volpe 3 was also well liked because he was extensively 4 involved in the entire community. It was not 5 just the academic setting that he was in, but in 6 the entire community of the Island, so that he 7 was warmly accepted by everyone, whether they 8 went to college or not, from St. George to 9 Tottenville, from the length and breath of the 10 Island. So that's the type of a community that 11 a president was serving in in this community. 12 I just hope out of this 13 experience, Mr. President, I'm going to enter a 14 dissenting vote on the nominees, this group of 15 nominees, to indicate my displeasure at the 16 events that have taken place, but I hope that it 17 will serve a useful purpose, because this system 18 cannot go on. If there's a qualified person, 19 that person should be recognized. I mean, this 20 -- is there an antipathy? Probably not, but 21 there is an indifference, and certainly a 22 contemptuous reckoning of the effect that this 23 -- these acts of -- these disinclinations to 7376 1 consider in 21 out of 21, even one -- even one, 2 and most appropriately, in the ones -- one 3 institution where it would have been the most 4 dramatic, simply cannot -- cannot go on. It can 5 not go on without rendering a disservice to the 6 City University, and I'm sure that those who are 7 -- who have been nominated, those who serve on 8 the faculty, those who are elated and all of us 9 who have an interest in the City University of 10 New York, do not want to see that happen, but it 11 is a condition that cannot persist, and I'm 12 going to enter a dissenting vote for the 13 purposes I indicated, and prayerfully, I have 14 the expectation; otherwise, I believe that this 15 body will have to take more concrete action with 16 respect to the studied indifference to a 17 significant portion of the community that makes 18 up this city and that also make up the student 19 body of the City University. It cannot stand. 20 It will not be permitted to stand because it's 21 going to have, I believe, the attention of many 22 members of this chamber, whatever their 23 background is. 7377 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 2 LaValle. 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 It's always difficult to follow 6 Senator Marchi who speaks with such authority 7 and passion and really a sense of caring which 8 he exemplified this evening. 9 We spent a great deal of time, 10 not only this evening in the Finance Committee, 11 as the chairman guided us through, I think a 12 very heated discussion, a very thorough 13 discussion, on the nominees, but also spent a 14 good deal of time, Senate Higher Education 15 Committee, questioning the nominees, and in the 16 interim, there has been a flurry of activity on 17 the part of a number of members asking 18 questions, and what tonight's discussion in the 19 Finance Committee was all about was whether we, 20 tonight, have all the information that we need 21 on individuals who are reappointments, with the 22 exception of Mr. Berman and the nominee from 23 Staten Island that we did earlier, who comes in 7378 1 also with a clean slate. 2 We have shown -- over a period of 3 time, we showed in the budget that we care very 4 much about the City University. There's a very 5 distinguished university with individuals who 6 have been Nobel Prize winners, CEOs of 7 corporations and other distinguished 8 individuals. We care not only in giving the 9 institution the money, the energy it needs to do 10 its job, but tonight, and in the preceding 11 weeks, this Legislature very clearly is saying, 12 we care about the governing structure, the 13 people who make the decisions about the public 14 policy of our public universities. Tonight, we 15 happen to be talking about the City University. 16 On another occasion, we'll be talking about 17 State University. 18 So many times we are accused of 19 passing on nominees without a lot of debate or 20 not a lot of discussion, even though it does 21 happen in committee. This set of nominees, I 22 believe went through a very rigorous debate 23 tonight in the Finance Committee. I think that 7379 1 the individuals who have served, Mr. Badillo, 2 Ms. Everett, Chairman Murphy, Mr. Jacobs, have 3 all -- they have been fine individuals. We are 4 not questioning their motivations. What we are 5 questioning tonight is whether they have the 6 energy and the capacity to establish a public 7 policy that is consistent with the many stake 8 holders that they must deal with, and we, as a 9 Legislature, are one of the stakeholders. 10 Senator Marchi very clearly 11 tonight indicated a problem that seems to be 12 systemic. Just but a year ago we had a dispute 13 in which many members were involved in the 14 Calandra Institute in which they felt the 15 dollars that we put in the budget were not 16 properly utilized. 17 That is not so much the debate 18 tonight. The debate tonight is over a 19 contentiousness about how public dollars are 20 spent, how the CEO is operating, and whether the 21 dollars are being utilized wisely. In my 22 judgment, we, in this Legislature, do not have 23 all of the facts to make a decision. 7380 1 If it was up to me, I would ask 2 that this vote be held for a day or two before 3 we had all the facts, but the nominees are 4 before us this evening, and so we must try to 5 reach a decision on their prior records, with 6 faith and trust that they will be guided by the 7 debate and the discussion tonight and fulfill 8 their responsibilities with the kind of energy 9 that we are demanding of them on this night. 10 I feel as chairman, that on the 11 information that I have, I'm going to be 12 consistent in the vote that I cast in the 13 Finance Committee. I voted in the affirmative 14 for Mr. Badillo and I voted in the negative on 15 the other -- on the other nominees, and I will 16 be consistent with that tonight, and I am doing 17 so as the chairman of the Higher Education 18 Committee, because it is important that a 19 message -- and I know that I've talked to 20 Chairman Murphy in the short time between the 21 Finance Committee and this point in time, and I 22 felt good about those discussions, and I hope 23 that he will move forward in the spirit of the 7381 1 discussions that we had. 2 This is very, very serious 3 business. We're talking about a lot of money 4 that we spend on our public universities and 5 more importantly, we are expending those dollars 6 because we are making an investment in our 7 students and in our future and higher education 8 is integral to the economic development strategy 9 and plans of this state. If higher education 10 succeeds, we as New Yorkers succeed. 11 I want to thank Senator Stafford 12 very much for your very capable handling of the 13 deliberations in the Finance Committee, Senator, 14 and for allowing a very open, free-spirited and 15 productive discussion to go on in your 16 committee. I think all -- all of us will 17 benefit by your leadership you displayed 18 tonight. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 22 President. Firstly, I would like to clarify the 23 situation, one nominee. Mr. Berg from Staten 7382 1 Island is a new nominee. I think it should be 2 pointed out that Herbert Berman is a new 3 appointment, also. 4 (Whereupon, there was comment 5 from the floor.) 6 Yes. No, I understand that. 7 And while people are talking 8 about many differentiations, Herbert Berman, who 9 happens to be a constituent of mine, is an 10 individual who is extraordinarily well 11 qualified, has not been part of the board. He 12 is a graduate of Harvard Law School and NYU, and 13 I can give you the total of his background, and 14 I'm trying to hold this down. It's quarter to 15 3:00 in the morning. But I believe a check of 16 his resume -- Phi Beta Kappa, et cetera -- you 17 will find that he is someone who really has 18 earned the vote of confidence from this body. 19 As far as the rest of it is 20 concerned -- and, again, I'll try and be brief. 21 I have spoken to the five nominees. I am not on 22 the Higher Education Committee. I had hoped 23 that they might appear before the Finance 7383 1 Committee, and that apparently did not work out, 2 but I did speak to each of them individually. 3 As far as Mr. Badillo is 4 concerned, I don't have the slightest problem. 5 I think that he has made it perfectly clear as a 6 member of the board that problems with the 7 chancellor are such that he would like to take 8 action. As far as some of the others, perhaps 9 this process has, so to speak, given them 10 religion. I don't know. I hope so. But my 11 conclusions of the process briefly are these: 12 I think the situation with Mr. 13 Volpe was absurd. It was ridiculous. There was 14 no reason to have his presidency undone, and I 15 think it was handled in a clumsy manner. 16 I have heard members of the 17 board, some of these nominees, tell me that they 18 thought that the chancellor was a person with 19 new fresh ideas. That may or may not be true, 20 but what is true is that she has acted as a bull 21 in a china shop because it's not only a question 22 of having good ideas, it's a question of dealing 23 with the individuals you have to deal with on a 7384 1 day-by-day basis. 2 Now, Senator Marchi made 3 reference to the fact that Queens College has 4 lost a president, Shirley Strum Kenny, and I 5 will say to the body, don't shed any tears for 6 Shirley Strum Kenny because she will now become 7 the president of Stony Brook, a significant 8 increase in salary, and she's doing fine. So I 9 don't care, quotes/unquotes, about Shirley Strum 10 Kenny in this debate. What I care about is that 11 a clumsy chancellor created a situation where we 12 lost her from the CUNY system. 13 The Calandra lawsuit I felt was 14 an embarrassment all the way, and I felt that 15 the board at some point should have done 16 something about that. I don't know what they 17 thought they were standing up for, but it was an 18 embarrassment to all of us. 19 Reference was made by Senator 20 LaValle of the New York Times investigations and 21 I don't know whether Senator Connor intends to 22 speak or not, but I thought his remarks in the 23 committee were excellent. And basically we 7385 1 should not be in a situation where we are 2 judging or holding back, waiting for newspapers 3 to act. What is of significance is that the 4 board itself has made it clear that they are 5 doing their own audit. That they are looking 6 into the charges themselves; and, after all, 7 what then should they do? 8 One of my criticisms of 9 governmental agencies from time to time is that 10 they don't clean their own house. You can't be 11 responsible if something goes wrong all the 12 time, but you can stand up to it and try to 13 clean your own house. I think that is something 14 that is being done. 15 I think one of healthiest things 16 which is being done for CUNY is today -- as a 17 matter of fact, it's this week. I think that 18 members of this board have gone through a week 19 of shivering and shaking and wondering, and that 20 might be what is necessary. 21 If you take a look at the 22 credentials, I think the Governor has complied 23 with the Constitution. He has given us people 7386 1 who are qualified. The Senate's job is not, I 2 don't believe, to second guess but to determine 3 whether or not we confirm people, qualified 4 people, from the Governor. 5 It is my hope that the assurances 6 that I have received from the board, 7 particularly from its chairman, that the 8 chancellor will not be on any pedestal, that the 9 chancellor will be judged the way that she 10 should be judged, fairly. She should certainly 11 -- she's entitled to that, but if she's wrong 12 and if she's hurting the system, the thousands 13 of children who depend upon the integrity of 14 that system are entitled to have something done 15 about it. 16 With that in mind, I intend to 17 support the nominees, all of the nominees. And 18 I point out one more time that in the case of 19 Mr. Berman that is a new appointment, and I 20 think he deserves the opportunity to serve. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 22 Maltese. 23 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 7387 1 I wish to simply echo and reiterate the remarks 2 stated earlier by my good friend and colleague 3 Senator John Marchi, who has stated them far 4 more eloquently than I could and register the 5 same dissent without any comment or evaluation 6 of the individual merits and qualifications of 7 the other candidates. Those of whom I know are 8 very impressive. 9 So I wish the record to indicate 10 my dissent on the other candidates with the 11 exception of Mr. Berg. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 13 DiCarlo. 14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 15 I rise in support of my colleague from Staten 16 Island, and we serve representing Staten Island 17 together. And let me say at the outset that I 18 am in no way in favor of a quota system and I 19 never have and I never will be, but I think 20 there is something rotten going on. 21 There are 900,000 Italian 22 Americans who live in New York City. And most 23 people, when you say that number, they get taken 7388 1 aback and they say, "You're kidding!" 2 -- 900,000 Italian-Americans in New York City. 3 And Senator Marchi said there are 4 21 institutions in the CUNY system in New York 5 City and not one of them is headed by an 6 Italian-American. 7 We are not the type of people who 8 take to the streets. We are not the type of 9 people who get angry. Maybe it's our fault, but 10 it is an absolute disgrace that this is 11 happening. 12 I intend to vote for my 13 constituents against every reappointment to this 14 system. They should be ashamed of themselves. 15 I, for one, see through what they have done. My 16 constituents see what they have done, and I 17 would like to be recorded in the negative for 18 myself and my constituents on Edith Everett, 19 James P. Murphy, Harold Jacobs, and the other 20 two are new appointments, except for Herman 21 Badillo, who's a friend; and because he is 22 already there, I vote against him also. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 7389 1 Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. I will be brief at this hour. Once 4 again, we find ourselves discussing a very 5 serious matter, discussing as is appropriate, 6 using this opportunity to reflect upon our 7 concerns for one of the major institutions in 8 our state and certainly the major educational 9 institution in our city. We find ourselves 10 doing it in the wee hours of the morning, many 11 of us after having been up all night last 12 night. Enough said. It certainly reflects on 13 this institution poorly, in my opinion. 14 Be that as it may, I am going to 15 vote for these nominees, although I want the 16 record to be perfectly clear. I represented 17 Staten Island, as I've said before on the floor 18 sometimes in lighter veins, for ten years. I 19 came to know the College of Staten Island as an 20 institution, as a resource, as a vital resource 21 for the people of Staten Island as well as the 22 people of Brooklyn. I believe at least half of 23 the students in the College of Staten Island 7390 1 hailed from Brooklyn, and I came to know Dr. 2 Volpe very well. I knew of his plans, the St. 3 George campus. When they had two campuses, the 4 St. George campus was in my district. I came to 5 know him very well, know many members of his 6 administration. 7 Working together with Senator 8 Marchi and our colleagues in the Assembly, we 9 embarked in support of a plan to consolidate the 10 campus. We were supportive on many other 11 programs. Dr. Volpe was a fine scholar, a 12 committed administrator and an enlightened human 13 being, who was totally dedicated to that 14 institution. 15 Subsequent to my being 16 reapportioned out of Staten Island, events 17 unfolded which disturbed me very, very much. I 18 think things were handled in a way that Dr. 19 Volpe was really left with no other choice but 20 to leave. I think commitments that were made 21 were reneged upon. I think that situation was, 22 in my opinion, handled very, very poorly by the 23 chancellor. Senator Gold has pointed out there 7391 1 were other situations where the chancellor 2 appears to have handled a situation poorly at 3 great expense to the institutions involved in 4 terms of the losses. 5 I have over the years been very, 6 very proud to represent a portion of those 7 900,000 Italian-Americans which Senator DiCarlo 8 told us about. I think we all represent some of 9 that, more or less, and I followed with great 10 curiosity over the years -- more than curiosity, 11 concern -- various lawsuits, sometimes by 12 individual professors, sometimes by groups, 13 which alleged discrimination in the CUNY system 14 against Italian-American faculty, against 15 programs that reflected Italian-American studies 16 orientation. Many of these lawsuits were 17 successful. They involved denials of tenure, 18 promotion, and so on. 19 And I really do hold the board of 20 trustees responsible. I believe that once it 21 became apparent to all that these allegations of 22 discrimination had merit, the board of trustees 23 should have taken steps to diffuse the issue by 7392 1 meeting the concern expressed there. I don't 2 know whether this situation -- you know, you can 3 play with it intellectually. Does it reflect 4 out and out hostility to an ethnic group? Does 5 it reflect ignorant stereotyping on the part of 6 certain administrators and faculty toward 7 Italian-American faculty members and programs 8 and students? Or is it another embodiment of 9 the so-called political correctness that often 10 infects educational institutions so that one 11 philosophical view or another predominates and 12 scholars who share a different political 13 philosophy are viewed not as scholars with a 14 different opinion as they ought to be and as 15 presenting diversity and a chance for 16 interchange and tension which brings about 17 thought and reflection, but are sometimes viewed 18 as, gee, they're troglodytes or they're crazy 19 radicals, back and forth, whichever way, in a 20 way that's not representative of what the ideals 21 of academia ought to be, that, in fact, become a 22 corruption of the concept of university. 23 So I share very, very deeply 7393 1 those concerns, Senator Marchi, and am always 2 available -- and I have written my share of 3 letters about this to the chancellor and the 4 trustees -- always available to agitate and take 5 political action as needs be to correct that. 6 With respect to the concerns that 7 Senator LaValle brought about, events that are 8 apparently unfolding in the New York Times or 9 whatever, I will repeat what I said in the 10 committee. The Constitution and statutes 11 involved say the Governor nominates and we 12 confirm, not that the Governor nominates and the 13 New York Times confirms or any other newspaper 14 confirms. It's our responsibility to make a 15 judgment. As Senator Gold pointed out, we do it 16 with all the information we have that's 17 verifiable. Our committees have the power to 18 investigate, to subpoena, to get beyond the 19 facts. 20 To say, "Well, I hear there are 21 serious allegations that may come out in a 22 newspaper story shortly," is just not the way we 23 can do business. We have all learned in 7394 1 politics certainly that you can't believe 2 everything you read, although sometimes it's 3 true, but there are other processes to bring out 4 the truth. And, you know, to say, well, it's - 5 you know, I don't -- would we be concerned if 6 serious allegations were going to be raised in a 7 few weeks by, I don't know, the Post? 8 Probably. How about the Village Voice? Maybe 9 some of us. The National Enquirer? I mean a 10 newspaper is a newspaper, and we certainly can't 11 base any action on that nor should we delay 12 moving forward with these nominees. 13 So I'm going to vote for them. I 14 have different levels of regard for the 15 performance of the incumbents in different 16 situations. I have differed with some of them, 17 the actions they've taken. But on the whole, my 18 judgment as a Senator is they are qualified to 19 serve. They have been nominated by the 20 Governor. I certainly will badger them, cojole 21 them, or whatever, to hold them to some of the 22 standards I think they ought to be held to and 23 to get them to address some of the problems that 7395 1 are quite apparent. 2 But, Mr. President, I am going to 3 vote for them. 4 Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 6 question is on the confirmation of the afore 7 mentioned nominees. 8 Senator Padavan. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 10 I would like to have my votes recorded as 11 follows: In opposition to the reappointment of 12 Edith B. Everett and the reappointment of Harold 13 Jacobs. In all other instances, I vote in the 14 affirmative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 16 question is on the confirmation of the afore 17 mentioned nominees. All those in favor, signify 18 by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed, nay. 21 (Response of "Nay.") 22 The nominees are concerned. 23 Senator Present. 7396 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 2 There being no further business, I move we 3 adjourn -- that we stand in recess until 4 tomorrow at -- today -- today. We'll get it 5 straight. Stand in recess until 10:00 a.m. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate 7 will stand in recess until 10:00 a.m. 8 Senator Present. 9 Can we please have some order for 10 an announcement. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 12 I would like to remind the members that we 13 didn't change -- we are in today, and most of 14 you have been checked in. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senate 16 will stand in recess until 10:00 a.m. 17 (Whereupon, at 3:05 a.m., Senate 18 recessed.) 19 20 21 22 23 7397 1 2 3 ALBANY, NEW YORK 4 July 2, 1994 5 11:23 a.m. 6 7 8 REGULAR SESSION 9 10 11 12 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 13 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 7398 1 ....At 11:08 a.m.... 2 SENATOR PRESENT: I'm calling all 3 members of the Senate to report to the Senate as 4 soon as possible. We've got a long agenda 5 today. I'd like you here to support your 6 bills. You'll be able to speak when you want. 7 If you're not here, your bill may be passed 8 over. Please come to the chamber immediately. 9 P R O C E E D I N G S. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senate will come to order. 12 Return to motions and 13 resolutions. Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 on behalf of Senator Tully, please place a 16 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1573. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 18 Number 1573 will be starred at the request of 19 the sponsor. 20 Senator Present, we have some 21 substitutions from the Assembly here. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's make the 23 substitutions. 7399 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the substitutions. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 4 of 4 today's calendar, Senator Stafford moves to 5 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 6 Bill Number 1702-C and substitute it for the 7 identical Third Reading Number 24. 8 On page 6, Senator Velella moves 9 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 10 Assembly Bill Number 1917-A and substitute it 11 for the identical Third Reading 352. 12 On page 6, Senator DiCarlo moves 13 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 14 Assembly Bill Number 1605-B and substitute it 15 for the identical Third Reading 393. 16 On page 9, Senator Bruno moves to 17 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 18 Bill Number 1409-A and substitute it for the 19 identical Third Reading 584. 20 On page 13, Senator Johnson moves 21 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 22 Assembly Bill Number 11931-A and substitute it 23 for the identical Third Reading 718. 7400 1 On page 18, Senator Farley moves 2 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 3 Assembly Bill Number 1069-A and substitute it 4 for the identical Calendar Number 1032. 5 On page 21, Senator Goodman moves 6 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 7 Assembly Bill Number 8600-C and substitute it 8 for the identical Third Reading 1240. 9 On page 21, Senator Farley moves 10 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 11 Assembly Bill Number 11868-A and substitute it 12 for the identical Third Reading 1253. 13 On page 25, Senator Padavan moves 14 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 15 Assembly Bill Number 12181 and substitute it for 16 the identical Third Reading 1566. 17 On page 30, Senator Skelos moves 18 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 19 Assembly Bill Number 12109 and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading 1601. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 22 substitutions are ordered. 23 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 7401 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Daly. 3 SENATOR DALY: Page 21, Calendar 4 Number 1309, Assembly 9588-A, would you recommit 5 that -- strike the enacting clause and recommit 6 the bill, 1309. Calendar Number 1309. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 8 Number 1309, the enacting clause is stricken and 9 it's recommitted. 10 The Chair recognizes Senator 11 Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you. 13 Mr. President, let's take up the 14 non-controversial calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the non-controversial calendar. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 18 Calendar Number 24, substituted earlier today, 19 by member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Bill 20 Number 16702-C, an act to amend the Tax Law, 21 exempting volunteer fire departments and 22 companies and ambulance companies from payment 23 of a motor fuel tax. 7402 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 41, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 233-A, 13 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7403 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 95, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 3 661-A, an act to amend the Environmental 4 Conservation Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 6 last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 393, substituted earlier today, by member of the 17 Assembly Lentol, Assembly Bill Number 60 - 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 SENATOR LACK: Excuse me, Mr. 22 President. Are there live lists? They're not on 23 -- we don't have any in the back of the room; 7404 1 on all the desks, they're not on. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 3 for bringing it to our attention, Senator Lack. 4 We'll make sure that the Secretary or the 5 Sergeant-at-Arms gets you some of those before 6 we proceed. 7 Senator Lack, have you been 8 provided with an active list at this time? 9 SENATOR LACK: Yes, I have. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: O.K. The 11 Secretary will continue to call the 12 non-controversial calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 486, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1245-A, 15 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7405 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 537, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 7430-A, 4 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 584, substituted earlier today, by member of the 17 Assembly Tonko, Assembly Bill Number 1499-A, an 18 act to amend the Civil Service Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7406 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 607, by member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly 8 Bill Number 748-C, an act to amend the Vehicle 9 and Traffic Law and the Education Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 635, by member of the Assembly Lentol, Assembly 16 Bill Number 6438-B, an act to amend the Civil 17 Practice Law and Rules. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7407 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 692, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 7 7444-A, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 690 - 17 Calendar Number 692 is being called. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 718, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7408 1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 2 11931-A, an act to amend the Environmental 3 Conservation Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 885, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 16 2109-C, an act to amend the Public Authorities 17 Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7409 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 952, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Bill Number 11493-A, an act to amend 8 the Public Service Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 10 last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1028. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 7410 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1092, by member of the Assembly Clark, Assembly 3 Bill Number 10114-B, an act to amend the 4 Executive Law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 6 second, please. 7 Last section. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1104, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 20 7837-B, an act to amend the Executive Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7411 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1124, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 10 7166-A, an act to amend the Public Authorities 11 Law, Long Island Rail Road. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1240, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7412 1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8600-C, 2 an act to amend the General City Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1246, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 15 8530-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law and 16 the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 18 last section. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1253, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7413 1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11868 2 A, an act to amend the Public Housing Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1314, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 15 8102-A, an act to amend the Navigation Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7414 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1316, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8392, 5 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 7 what number? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1316, 9 Calendar Number 1316 is being called. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 1309 was 14 done, and 1314 was done, are we right there? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold, Calendar Number 1314 was recommitted by 17 Senator Daly just a few minutes ago. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, and now 19 we've just passed this phenomenal Padavan bill 20 that's going to protect us all on the water. 21 Fine. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will continue to call the non-controversial 7415 1 calendar. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1318, by Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Star the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Star the 6 bill at the request of the sponsor. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1325, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 9 797-C, an act to amend the State Finance Law and 10 the Election Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1369, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 19 7968-B, an act to amend the Environmental 20 Conservation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7416 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1386, by Senator Tully. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1397, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 15 8020-A, an act to amend the Education Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section - 17 lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1410, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Bill Number 12153, Retirement and 23 Social Security Law. 7417 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1428, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 5 7808, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 6 Law. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1473, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1304, 12 to restore funds to school districts. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1546, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 19 7014, an act to amend the General Municipal 20 Law. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 7418 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1549, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 3 Assembly Bill Number 8886-A, an act to amend the 4 Public Health Law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1551, by Senator - 11 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1564, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 16 8821. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1565, by the Committee on Rules. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7419 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1566, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 4 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 12181, 5 Education Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 9 minute. Lay it aside for Senator Galiber. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1572. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Present, Senator Gold, there's no home rule 16 message at the desk, so we're forced to lay the 17 bill aside. Lay the bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1573, by Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 48... 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1573 was 21 starred at the request of the sponsor. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1574, by Senator - 7420 1 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1575, by member of the Assembly McLaughlin, 6 Assembly Bill - 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1576, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 12 Assembly Bill Number 11473, re-opening the 13 optional retirement plan for Joseph N. Torre. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 15 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 16 read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 20 the results when tabulated. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2, 23 Senators Dollinger and Gold recorded in the 7421 1 negative -- excuse me. In relation to Calendar 2 Number 1576, Senators Dollinger, Gold, Leichter 3 and Mendez recorded in the negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1577, by 7 Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 7961-A, an 8 act to amend the Election Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1578, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 16 Assembly Bill Number 12115, an act to amend the 17 Public Health Law. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 19 second. Last section. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7422 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1579, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 9 8213-B, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2, 18 Senators Cook and Wright recorded in the 19 negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1581, by member of the Assembly Kaufman, 7423 1 Assembly Bill Number 9219-A, an act to amend the 2 Insurance Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1582, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 15 Assembly Bill Number 11851-A, an act to amend 16 the Civil Service Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7424 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you lay 2 that aside, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1583, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Bill Number 11946, city of New York to 8 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 10 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 11 read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1584, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Bill Number 12048, fire protection in 23 the village of Liverpool. 7425 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 2 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 3 read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1585, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 8726. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside, 15 please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1586, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 20 Assembly Bill Number 12087, an act to amend a 21 chapter of the laws of 1994. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7426 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1589, by Senator Maltese, Senate Bill Number 11 8750, an act to authorize Edward Kneafsey to 12 purchase retirement service credit. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 21 the results when tabulated. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7427 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: I believe I 5 was the only one that asked that 1582 be laid 6 aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter, can we complete the roll call and I'll 9 be right back to you. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Oh, I'm 11 sorry. 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar 1589 are Senators 14 Dollinger, Gold and Leichter, ayes 57, nays 3. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 19 President, if you would call 1582 again. I laid 20 that aside by mistake, and I believe I was the 21 only one who had a question on it. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will call 1582. 7428 1 THE SECRETARY: By the Committee 2 on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11851-A, an act 3 to amend the Civil Service Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1591, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 16 Assembly Bill Number 12146, validating certain 17 zoning ordinances enacted by the town of 18 Clermont. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 20 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 21 read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7429 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1592, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 12118, Public Authorities 10 Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1593, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 23 8766-A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 7430 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1594, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 13 Assembly Bill Number 12127, authorizing the city 14 of Troy to issue serial bonds. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 16 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 17 read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7431 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1596, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 5 Assembly Bill Number 12113, an act to amend the 6 Real Property Tax Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 15 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1597, by Senator Lack. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 22 recognizes Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Can you lay 7432 1 aside 1597, 1598, 1599 and 1600. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendars 3 Numbers 1597, 1598, 1599 and 1600 will be laid 4 aside. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: And we'll take 6 those up first when we go to non-controversial. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Fine. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1601, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 10 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 12109 11 A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 7433 1 recognizes Senator Lack. 2 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, can 3 I please move to reconsider the vote on 1579. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will call the roll on reconsideration. Excuse 6 me. Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Lack, 8 Senate Bill Number 8213-B. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll on reconsideration. 11 (The Secretary called the roll on 12 reconsideration.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Lack, the bill is before the house. 16 SENATOR LACK: O.K. Can we just 17 lay it aside temporarily until we can uncross 18 it. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill will 20 be laid aside. 21 The Chair recognizes Senator 22 Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7434 1 can we go to controversial calendar and start 2 with Calendar 1597 and when we finish those four 3 bills, go to regular order, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 will direct the Secretary to call the 6 controversial calendar starting with Calendar 7 Number 1597. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 11 Before you do that, may I have unanimous consent 12 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1369? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1369, 14 Senator? Senator, without objection, Senator 15 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 16 Calendar Number 1369. 17 Senator Goodman. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Same request, 19 negative on 1369, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 21 objection, Senator Goodman will be recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 1369. 23 Can we have some order in the 7435 1 house. Lot of movement, got some long debates 2 to take care of, lot of bills to take care of 3 before we conclude the session today, so I'll 4 ask the staff at the back of the chamber either 5 to find seats, the members to find seats, if 6 they have conversations to take place, please 7 take them out of the chamber. 8 Secretary will call Calendar 9 Number 1597. 10 THE SECRETARY: On page 30, 11 Calendar Number 1597, by Senator Lack, Senate 12 Bill Number 8188, proposing an amendment to the 13 Constitution in relation to the number of 14 judicial departments and districts. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 19 this is an issue which has been around for a 20 while, and I just think it would be very helpful 21 if the distinguished chairman of Judiciary spent 22 a little more time than he might, but to just 23 give us the background and go into this 7436 1 particular bill. 2 SENATOR LACK: Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Lack for an explanation. 5 SENATOR LACK: Yeah. Thank you, 6 Senator Gold. 7 Mr. President, in the interests 8 of time, could I please ask that we consider all 9 as one, Calendars 1597, 1598, 1599 and 1600, 10 instead of the Secretary reading it, can I 11 please, with Senator Gold's permission and 12 Senator Present's permission, deem this discus 13 sion to be on all four of those Constitutional 14 Amendments, and then we just take the vote on 15 all four afterwards. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold, do you have any objection to that? 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 19 do not have any objection anticipating that 20 we're not going to have anywhere near a two-hour 21 debate, God forbid, unless there is an issue 22 that people want and then we'll go into it. But 23 other than that, I think Senator Lack's 7437 1 suggestion makes sense. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Lack. 4 SENATOR LACK: Yes, separate 5 bills. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 All four of these, Mr. President, 8 are Constitutional Amendments to establish a new 9 appellate department in the state of New York. 10 I appreciate - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is that 12 your staff standing directly behind you? 13 SENATOR LACK: No. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Johnson, would you take your conversation out of 16 the chamber. Thank you. 17 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 18 President, and I appreciate Senator Gold asking 19 for somewhat of an explanation, and I will 20 indulge, if you will indulge me, I will be happy 21 to give it to you. 22 The last time the appellate 23 departments in the state of New York were 7438 1 realigned was exactly one hundred years ago in 2 1894, and in 1894 the demographic complex of the 3 state of New York was a lot different obviously 4 than it is in 1994, and where this has been felt 5 the most are in the Second Department, which in 6 1894, comprised the then somewhat urban county 7 of Kings, the Borough of Brooklyn, the bucolic 8 and semi-rural Borough of Queens and the totally 9 rural counties of Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester 10 and the four northern counties of what is now 11 currently the Ninth Judicial District, and that 12 was considered to be one quarter of the state of 13 New York; hence the Second Department, and we 14 had four departments. 15 At the time of the 1894 16 realignment of the appellate departments, 17 everything was equal between the four. Well, 18 it's a hundred years later. There have been no 19 changes in the departments, and the Second 20 Department, which still comprises those same 21 nine counties, now has over 50 percent of the 22 population of the state and last year did 43 23 percent of the appeals in this state. It now 7439 1 has 20 justices of the Appellate Division, and 2 instead of sitting in panels of five judges 3 each, they sit in panels of four judges each and 4 if you've been reading the reports that I've put 5 out entitled JUSTICE DELAYED, you will know that 6 we have a totally unequal system of appellate 7 justice in the state of New York. 8 Just recently, Senator Nozzolio, 9 myself and my counsel, visited the Fourth 10 Department located in Rochester. We met with 11 its presiding justice, Justice Dolores Denman, 12 and the Fourth Department, as has the Second 13 Department, the Third Department and the First 14 Department has been trying to help the Second 15 Department by taking cases that are taking too 16 long in the Second Department and working on 17 them. 18 Justice Denman told me that she 19 recently opened up a Second Department case 20 which was a four-year-old custody case that had 21 been lying around the Second Department for four 22 years undecided and one of the Appellate 23 Division justices in Rochester, only half 7440 1 kiddingly said, "We didn't know whether to 2 decide the custody matter or to officiate at the 3 child's wedding." It was absolutely ridiculous 4 that this had taken four years to accomplish. 5 As of last Friday morning, the 6 chief administrative judge in the state of New 7 York, Judge Milonas, informed me that the First 8 Department, which is comprised of New York and 9 Bronx Counties, is absolutely current, which 10 meant as of Friday afternoon, last Friday 11 afternoon, you had an appeal and you walked into 12 New York County and filed that appeal, 13 theoretically, it could be -- it could have been 14 heard this Monday morning. As a practical 15 matter, it would take a few weeks. The same 16 appeal filed across the river in Brooklyn would 17 take over two years. That is absolutely 18 ludicrous. 19 What to do about it? Well, it's a 20 Constitutional Amendment to realign the 21 appellate departments. One would think that 22 would be a fairly simple matter to accomplish, 23 but it hasn't been. In 1967, at the 7441 1 Constitutional Convention, it was tried. It 2 failed. A then Democratic member of the 3 Assembly Eli Wager, who is now -- Wager, sorry, 4 sorry, now a Supreme Court Justice. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Formerly. 6 SENATOR LACK: Formerly -- a 7 retired member of the Supreme Court, thank you, 8 Senator Gold -- first proposed -- first proposed 9 that a new Fifth Department be comprised of what 10 is now the Tenth and Eleventh Judicial Districts 11 of the counties of Queens, Nassau and Suffolk. 12 That was first put in this Legislature in 1970. 13 24 years later, nothing has 14 happened. We're fortunate that this year 15 Presiding Justice Guy Mangano, himself a former 16 Democratic member of this house, is the first - 17 the first presiding justice of the Second 18 Department to endorse an idea, a concept, to 19 split up the Second Department and create a 20 Second and Fifth Department. That proposal has 21 been endorsed and adopted by Chief Justice Kaye, 22 Chief Administrative Judge Milonas, Presiding 23 Justice Denman of the Fourth Department, who sat 7442 1 on the Appellate Division Reassignment Task 2 Force, and just lately by Governor Cuomo 3 himself, who has said that the now Kaye-Mangano 4 proposal for realignment, including the Tenth 5 and Eleventh Judicial Districts, is certainly 6 the way to go. 7 The Senate, up 'til last year, 8 has not agreed with that. This Senate Majority, 9 the last time it spoke on creating a Fifth 10 Department, proposed a Constitutional Amendment 11 which would take the Ninth and Tenth Judicial 12 Districts and create a new Fifth Department. 13 That's the counties of Nassau, Suffolk, West 14 chester, and the four counties north and west of 15 Westchester. That, of course, has received 16 absolutely no support any place else and has 17 failed to ever achieve complete first passage, 18 let alone second passage. 19 This year, thanks to Senator 20 Marino's recognition of the dire straits of the 21 current Second Department, the Senate has put 22 forward the Democratic proposal of Chief Judge 23 Kaye, Presiding Justice Mangano, Governor Cuomo, 7443 1 Presiding Justice Denman, and is advancing a 2 Fifth Department to be comprised of the Tenth 3 and Eleventh Judicial Circuits -- Districts, 4 Nassau, Suffolk and Queens. 5 Much to our distress, the 6 Assembly says it's a Republican proposal; we 7 don't want to look at it, and they haven't. I 8 find that totally inconceivable, so today, on 9 the last day of session, the Senate is putting 10 forward four proposed Constitutional Amendments, 11 a smorgasbord, as it were, to the Assembly: 12 Choose one, choose two, choose three, choose 13 four, choose any, and please give it first 14 passage. 15 The Assembly has said so far, We 16 want to study this situation. There had been an 17 Appellate Division Task Force organized by the 18 chief judge that has reported, create a Fifth 19 Department. There have been bills for 24 years 20 in this Legislature. 21 The Governor, the chief judge, 22 the chief administrative judge, all endorse a 23 proposal that is before us at this moment. But 7444 1 I understand if the Assembly wants to be able to 2 study it. That's why we are advancing four 3 proposals. 4 The first one, which is calendar 5 1597, is Chief Judge Kaye's proposal, create a 6 Fifth Department, give first passage this year 7 in this Legislature to a Fifth Department to be 8 comprised of the counties of Queens, Nassau and 9 Suffolk. We will endorse that today. We will 10 pass that and send that to the Assembly. 11 The second, Calendar 1598, 12 contains the same language for creation of a 13 Fifth Department, together with an understanding 14 that the Assembly is interested in somewhat of a 15 more diverse composition of members of the 16 Appellate Division and that calendar number 17 contains an amendment to the Constitution which 18 would authorize Court of Claims judges to be 19 posted to the Appellate Division. Court of 20 Claims judges, of course, are proposed by the 21 Governor and confirmed by this body. 22 Understanding the Assembly's 23 reluctance to be bound into a Fifth Department 7445 1 that is endorsed by every Democratic jurist in 2 this state, we understand that, Calendar 1599 is 3 an undefined Constitutional Amendment for an 4 unstructured Fifth Department giving the 5 Assembly and the Senate, if we so choose, a year 6 to define the actual geographic boundaries of 7 the Fifth Department and provide that prior to 8 the vote of the people of the second passage in 9 November of 1995, by August 1st of 1995 the 10 Legislature shall enact the statute which 11 defines the boundaries, the geographic 12 boundaries of the Fifth Department; and finally 13 Calendar 1600 incorporates that idea contained 14 in 1599 together with the concept of posting 15 Court of Claims judges to the Appellate 16 Division. 17 So we're advancing to the 18 Assembly today the entire panoply of ideas. 19 They are free to choose, free to adopt. I would 20 only hope that they would do just that. If 21 you've looked at the JUSTICE DELAYED reports 22 that I have been putting out for the last month, 23 you will know the sad and sorry state of 7446 1 justice. There's one you haven't gotten because 2 of time, and that's Case Number 7, which is 3 entitled "Breast Feeding is No Issue For a 4 Four-Year-Old." Arose in the Second Department, 5 a realignment of visitation rights, because a 6 mother wanted to breast feed her child. It was 7 finally decided when the child was four years 8 old, obviously many years after the mother gave 9 up breast feeding. The mother, by the way, gave 10 up breast feeding during the pendency of the 11 action because the visitation could never be 12 realigned that was convenient enough for her 13 breast feeding. That is ludicrous, absolutely 14 ludicrous. 15 What's even worse, as I've been 16 informed by Presiding Justice Mangano and if you 17 look at the cases in the Second Department, you 18 can see that there are many litigants where 19 there is a choice of what department to commence 20 an action in, that depending on what type of 21 result they want, will purposely go into the 22 Second Department, knowing that if there is a 23 verdict for a plaintiff, the final judgment to 7447 1 that plaintiff can be for stalled for years 2 pending appeal, and you can force a settlement 3 because the plaintiff might not want to wait 4 three to four years once appeal is settled and 5 finally decided in the Second Department. 6 For the 50 percent of the people 7 of this state that live within the Second 8 Department, that is wrong. I earnestly implore 9 the Assembly to pick Calendar 1597, Calendar 10 1598, Calendar 1599 or Calendar 1600, pick one 11 of those today, and pass it. 12 And one final word in an economic 13 sense. Everybody who lives within the city of 14 New York or the county of Monroe, tied to the 15 passage of the fifth -- establishment of a Fifth 16 Department, is a take-over of court facilities 17 by the state. The First and Second Department, 18 the costs thereof are maintained by the city of 19 New York. The costs of the Fourth Department 20 are maintained by the County of Monroe. If we 21 establish a Fifth Department, we'll be able - 22 the state will be able to pay for all those 23 facilities. 7448 1 Again, I urge the Assembly, 2 please give passage to this today. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you so 7 much. 8 Will Senator Lack yield for one 9 question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Lack, do you yield? 12 SENATOR LACK: I yield, Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 yields. 15 SENATOR GOLD: First of all, 16 Senator, are the four departments that exist 17 today defined in the Constitution itself, or are 18 they done by statute? 19 SENATOR LACK: They're defined in 20 the Constitution. 21 SENATOR GOLD: I just wanted that 22 out there, because one of your proposals defines 23 it and one of them suggests that we, as a 7449 1 Legislature do it. 2 All right. Thank you. That's 3 really the only question I have. 4 Mr. President, on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold, on the bill. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. First of 8 all, I would like to point out that in this 9 general discussion, there is a proposal which is 10 around having been submitted by Francis T. 11 Murphy, the presiding justice of the Appellate 12 Division First Department in New York, and a 13 truly distinguished jurist, and his suggestion 14 was that we allow three-justice benches at the 15 Appellate Division level rather than five 16 justice benches, which would obviously expand 17 the capacity of each of the districts to handle 18 case loads. 19 Having said that, I will say 20 this: I intend personally, and always being 21 personally, to support at least the first bill 22 which creates the Fifth Department and for those 23 of you who are not from the areas involved, 7450 1 there is just one or two statistics which I 2 think tells it all. We have four departments in 3 this state, but 50 percent of our population 4 lives within the Second Department, Guy 5 Mangano's department, where he is the presiding 6 justice, and they decide -- that one department 7 decides 42 percent of all the cases decided. 8 So you can see that even cutting 9 the number of justices involved might not 10 alleviate that particular log jam. 11 I think that the proposal to 12 define the Fifth Department sways me more than 13 the proposals to leave it to the Legislature 14 and, while I appreciate Senator Lack's approach 15 of sending over a smorgasbord, I think that part 16 of the voting process is for us to also send 17 messages to the Assembly as to what our feelings 18 are. 19 So Senator Lack, again, only 20 speaking for myself, I intend to support 1597, 21 which would define in the Constitution the Fifth 22 Department just as we have always done. 23 I also personally do not have a 7451 1 problem with the concept of allowing Court of 2 Claims judges to be in that pool. I would 3 oppose the concept of an unstructured Fifth 4 Department. I have seen, and too many people on 5 this side have felt the sting of what 6 legislative reapportionment can do and, when it 7 comes to the judiciary, I think we owe the 8 responsibility to define these departments and 9 then have that done. 10 Similarly, I would oppose a bill 11 which would suggest a Fifth Department and leave 12 it to us, again, by statute to do it. I think 13 that the more hands off we are on the judiciary, 14 the better. They are coming to us for help. 15 They need the help. We ought to give it to them 16 and then I think we should be out of the 17 process, but I think certainly it's time to pass 18 this, and like to recognize Senator Lack for the 19 work in this area. It certainly has been a huge 20 burden. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 22 recognizes Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 7452 1 President, I rise as the ranking member of the 2 Judiciary Committee, and I think we're dealing 3 here with an issue that really cries out for 4 resolution, that really does not speak well 5 about the legislative process that for years 6 we've been unable to deal with what is a 7 terrible situation in the courts; it's been 8 described by Senator Lack and Senator Gold; it 9 really is a disgrace and causes grievous harm to 10 people who are in the Second Department, because 11 it's just impossible to have their appeals heard 12 in a timely basis. Unfortunately, this really 13 has been mired in politics, and I give a great 14 deal of credit to Senator Lack saying, Let's cut 15 the gordian knot, let's get -- let's get this 16 done, and I think his approach makes sense. 17 He's putting forward four 18 proposals and saying, O.K. Take your pick; we're 19 willing to do it. We're showing our good faith 20 and while, along with Senator Gold, I may prefer 21 one over the other, and maybe 1597 is the best 22 way to go, and that's the proposal by the chief 23 judge, but I think there's a justification of 7453 1 showing the willingness of this house to get 2 this done by saying, We're giving you a choice. 3 Now, it's up to the Assembly to act, and I think 4 that we are showing our good faith. We're doing 5 this in a non-political way, rare because this 6 is in this Legislature, but it needs to be 7 done. This cries for resolution, and I would 8 urge my colleagues to support these bills. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, I rise to commend Senator Lack for 11 his work. I think there's nothing more 12 frustrating to a lawyer than to win a case at 13 the trial court, win a motion at the trial court 14 and find that your opponent gets a four-year 15 period in which he can tie up, through appeal, 16 and frustrate either the will of a jury or in 17 the case of a motion, a summary motion, the will 18 of the court below that grants your clients 19 relief. 20 The other thing that's 21 frustrating to a lawyer is, of course, the 22 indecision that that breeds in the counseling of 23 your client when you attempt to explain to them 7454 1 what is the prospect on appeal, what happens on 2 appeal. If you've got delayed justice, you've 3 really got justice denied, and I think that 4 Senator Lack and his work have really demon 5 strated in the Second Department justice is 6 being denied. 7 I do have one question for 8 Senator Lack, if he would yield, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Lack, do you yield? 11 SENATOR LACK: Yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Lack yields. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Lack, 15 I understand your comments and particularly 16 pertinent since I practice in the Appellate 17 Division Fourth Department, Rochester, and am 18 concerned about Monroe County's support of that 19 facility. 20 My question is, I read the 21 Constitutional Amendment. I don't see in the 22 context of the amendment a linkage between those 23 concepts. If you could, just enlighten me as to 7455 1 how that linkage will occur and when it would - 2 how it would come to pass. 3 SENATOR LACK: Surely, Senator 4 Dollinger. Senator Daly is just asking me the 5 same question. There is nothing in the four 6 Constitutional Amendments because you don't need 7 a Constitutional Amendment to take over the 8 court facilities. What I had said and said 9 publicly and discussed with the second floor, 10 and they would certainly agree, is that upon 11 seconds passage of one of the four, hopefully - 12 I happen to agree with Senator Leichter and 13 Senator Gold but the bill that I originally 14 introduced which is Calendar Number 1597, we 15 would pass a court facility take-over that 16 would, with the establishment of five 17 departments, also acknowledge the state's 18 responsibility to take over the court facility 19 costs for the three appellate departments in the 20 City, two in the city of New York and the one 21 paid for by your home county of Monroe. It is 22 not in here. That would be done by legislation 23 concurrent with second passage next year. 7456 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Again, 2 Mr. President, I take the words of the Judiciary 3 chair and his colleagues at the value of a 4 commitment to Monroe County that, if this goes, 5 I can also understand, quite frankly, the need 6 perhaps from a practical political basis, to 7 generate support for this in the upstate 8 communities since this is really affecting 9 downstate justice, although I think that that's 10 important for people. I can understand the 11 parochial need to build enthusiasm for this by 12 providing some relief in Monroe County. 13 I have one other question that 14 just occurred to me, and perhaps if Senator Lack 15 would just yield for one more question. 16 SENATOR LACK: Surely. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You described 18 this as a smorgasbord. Would you prefer an 19 affirmative vote on all aspects of this 20 smorgasbord or do we get to sort of categorize 21 them by our preference of yeses or noes. I also 22 favor the initial proposal 1597 which I think is 23 the broadest, the most effective, the right way 7457 1 to do it, but I have some questions as Senator 2 Gold did about the way the Legislature would 3 configure it after the Constitutional 4 Amendment. 5 Would you prefer all yeses or can 6 we - 7 SENATOR LACK: Well, Senator 8 Dollinger, all I can tell you that, if you look 9 at the date of introduction, you'll see that 10 1597, the bill that you considered along with me 11 in the Judiciary Committee and was sent on to 12 the Rules Committee and to the floor is the 13 bill, the resolution, that I quote/unquote 14 introduced. Obviously I favor it. 15 I totally agree with Senator Gold 16 and Senator Leichter that setting forth in the 17 Constitution as it was meant to be the 18 geographical boundaries of the various appellate 19 departments of this state is what we should be 20 doing and preserving the separation between the 21 Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary as 22 was meant by the -- by the founding fathers. I 23 acknowledge all that. 7458 1 If you look and you'll see that 2 Resolutions 1598, 1599 and 1600 were introduced 3 yesterday to complete the panoply of -- that 4 could be offered to -- to the Assembly in hopes 5 that they would buy one. It's -- it's obviously 6 the result of our conversations with the 7 Assembly that they have some trepidations in 8 declaring themselves with respect to a 9 definitive structure of a Fifth Department that 10 has produced at least Calendars Number 1599 and 11 1600. 12 Personally, I would prefer 13 Calendar 1597 or 1598. I plan to vote in the 14 affirmative, obviously, for all four of them. 15 Any member, just so they don't get defeated, 16 that wants to indicate a preference to the 17 Assembly one versus the other, I, as far as I'm 18 concerned, feel free to do so. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Mr. 20 President, then, I gather from that that this is 21 not multiple choice, but only one right 22 answers. There could be several right answers. 23 Again, I just join my colleagues, Senator 7459 1 Leichter and Senator Gold. I think this is a 2 good move and the right move at the right time. 3 It's probably 20 years late in coming. I 4 commend Senator Lack for his leadership in 5 getting it here. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 7 Senator wishing to speak on this resolution? 8 (There was no response.) 9 Question is on the resolution. 10 The Secretary will call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 resolution is adopted. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1598, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8868, 17 proposing an amendment to the Constitution, in 18 relation to the number of judicial departments 19 and districts. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 21 is on the resolution. Secretary will call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7460 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 resolution is adopted. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1599, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8869, 6 proposing an amendment to the Constitution, in 7 relation to the number of judicial departments. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 9 is on the resolution. Secretary will call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 13 the results when tabulated. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 15 two, Senators Gold and Onorato recorded in the 16 negative. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 resolution is adopted. 20 Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, just to 22 explain my vote. There is also, I believe, a 23 provision in here creating a Twelfth District in 7461 1 Bronx County. I want the record to indicate 2 that, if that was a separate bill, I would vote 3 in favor of it. 4 I vote no. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1600, by Senator Lack, Senate Bill Number 8870, 7 proposing an amendment to the Constitution, in 8 relation to the number of judicial departments. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 10 is on the resolution. Secretary will call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 14 the results when tabulated. 15 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, may 16 I explain my vote? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Lack to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR LACK: Not to dwell any 20 longer on the subject, Mr. President, with my 21 apologies, but now that we have passed all four 22 of these resolutions, on the process of sending 23 them over to the Assembly, I would earnestly 7462 1 hope since it's only twenty of one on what I 2 assume is going to be the last rather long day 3 of session, that my staff and I are available to 4 any member of the Assembly to be able to discuss 5 these resolutions, and I would earnestly hope 6 that the Assembly chooses one of the four and 7 enacts it before the end of this session. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Lack in the affirmative. Thank you. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 12 two, Senators Connor and Gold recorded in the 13 negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 resolution is adopted. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Controversial 17 calendar 393. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will call the controversial calendar beginning 20 with 393. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 22 Calendar Number 393, substituted earlier today 23 by member of the Assembly Lentol, Assembly Bill 7463 1 Number 6903-B, an act to amend the Penal Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 DiCarlo? 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Senator. I 5 certainly want to move this along as best we can 6 and I think that the process we've been doing is 7 fine but, if you don't have any problem, Senator 8 DiCarlo, I'd like to temporarily hold this. I'm 9 waiting for one of my members who I know has a 10 interest in this, not in opposition necessarily, 11 but who may want to be heard on the bill. 12 SENATOR DiCARLO: O.K. Fine. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Can we come back to 14 it. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside temporarily. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Connor. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, Mr. 21 President. May I have unanimous consent to be 22 recorded in the negative on Calendar Numbers 23 1598 and 1599? 7464 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, Senator Connor will be recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 1598 and 1599. 4 Secretary will continued the 5 controversial calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 486, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1245-A, 8 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator Levy 10 yield to a question? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 12 temporarily. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside temporarily. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 607, by member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly 17 Bill Number 748-C, an act to amend the Vehicle 18 and Traffic Law and the Education Law. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. Yeah, 20 explanation. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 22 temporarily. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 7465 1 aside temporarily. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 4 Senator Padavan. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think it 6 might be appropriate if we somehow communicate 7 with the members on both sides - 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- that if 10 we're going to deal with these bills as we want 11 to today, that we've got to be here to do so. 12 Laying these bills aside now at this juncture 13 just doesn't make sense; so if you could somehow 14 add some weight to that admonition, I'd 15 appreciate it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Directive 17 from the acting floor leader is that members who 18 have bills on the active calendar be here for 19 presentation of them. If they are, in fact, 20 passed there is an opportunity maybe not to 21 repeat returning to them so that the bills' 22 opportunity for passage will be lost. 23 Senator Padavan. 7466 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would like to 2 announce an immediate meeting of the Rules 3 Committee in Room 332. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 5 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 6 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 7 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee, 8 Room 332. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Continue the 10 order, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will continue the controversial calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1028, by member of the Assembly Nolan, Assembly 15 Bill Number 2235-B, an act to amend the Public 16 Authorities Law. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1246, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 22 8530-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 7467 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: An 2 explanation has been asked of Calendar Number 3 20 - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 5 minute. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 7 recognizes Senator Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I want to 9 make sure that the -- the Senators understand 10 that Senator Padavan's remarks go on both 11 sides. I mean we are trying to hold bills also 12 for members of the Minority to debate that have 13 an interest, and I would urge that any of them 14 that have asked to hold bills aside please come 15 to the chamber because we have passed the 16 non-controversial calendar. 17 Having said that, with the 18 indulgence of the Majority Leader, if we could 19 hold this for Senator Solomon I'll try and get 20 him into the chamber, and we'll come back 21 shortly. Is that all right? 22 SENATOR HANNON: No. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, come on, 7468 1 Kemp. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside 3 temporarily. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside, 1246, temporarily. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Oppenheimer. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 11 I'd like unanimous consent to be in the no on 12 1369. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded 15 in the negative on Calendar Number 1369. 16 Ladies and gentlemen, if I may 17 have your attention, let's just kind of quiet it 18 down in the chamber. There are too many 19 conversations taking place. It's not that I 20 can't hear; it's the stenographer can't hear. 21 So let's quiet it down. We'll be able to 22 process the whole event much faster. Thank 23 you. 7469 1 Secretary will continue to call 2 the roll -- or excuse me, call the controversial 3 calendar. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1316, by - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 7 Mr. President, I am informed 8 that, if Senator Hannon would like to go 9 forward, we will go forward with this bill. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: 1246. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will call Calendar Number 1246. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1246, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 15 8530-A, an act to amend the Insurance Law and 16 the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Can we get a brief 18 explanation? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Hannon, an explanation has been asked for by 21 Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR HANNON: This provision 23 would clarify existing law with regard to the 7470 1 priority of insurance when a claim is made 2 involving the use of a rental vehicle. 3 SENATOR GOLD: That's the whole 4 thing? 5 SENATOR HANNON: That was the 6 explanation that had been requested. Would you 7 like to go into the technical details? 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Hannon, I 9 want to apologize to you publicly. I certainly 10 didn't mean to disturb you by asking for an 11 explanation of your bill. 12 Mr. President. 13 SENATOR HANNON: No, I mean, what 14 would you like to ask? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold, on the bill. 17 SENATOR GOLD: I would like to 18 have the bill explained so people can understand 19 the bill. If that's all there is to it, then 20 fine. 21 SENATOR HANNON: We add a new - 22 we add a new subsection (k) to Section 1 of 23 Section 3420 of the Insurance Law so that we 7471 1 would establish that an insurance policy of any 2 person or organization which is in the business 3 of renting rental vehicles within the state is 4 secondary to the insurance of that which has - 5 is possessed by the rental vehicle operator, all 6 of which must be pursuant to a written rental 7 agreement between the owner and the operator, 8 and it may not be for a period of time that 9 would be longer than 30 days provided those 30 10 days are continuous. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Gold, you have the floor. 13 SENATOR HANNON: Section 2 of the 14 bill amends Section 345 of the V & T Law to 15 conform this change. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 17 Mr. President, on the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold, on the bill. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Want to thank 21 Senator Hannon for the explanation. 22 Mr. President, while I do not 23 pretend to have the expertise of my ranking 7472 1 member on the committee, I will do my best, and 2 I guess the best I can do is to start out by 3 saying this bill is terrible. What the bill 4 does basically is change the liability issue 5 from rental car companies to the consumer, so 6 any way you look at it, I don't see how the 7 consumer who has automobile insurance will not 8 have their rates go up as a result of this 9 legislation, and I have opposition to this bill 10 by NYPIRG, by the Consumer Protection Board, by 11 State Farm Insurance, by telephone, by the New 12 York State Trial Lawyers, and I certainly urge 13 everyone who is consumer orientated in this 14 field to vote against the bill and do so on a 15 slow roll call. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 19 much, Mr. President. 20 Would Senator Hannon yield to a 21 question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Hannon, would you yield to Senator Waldon for a 7473 1 question? 2 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Senator. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 yields. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 Senator Hannon, let me create a 8 hypothetical and then ask a couple of questions 9 if I may. I'm a person who does not own a car. 10 Therefore, I have no requirement for auto 11 insurance. I go to rent a car. Is the rental 12 company obligated to rent to me a car? 13 SENATOR HANNON: The rental 14 company is not obligated. They -- the various 15 different processes, different companies go 16 through. I'm not an expert on all of them, but 17 in general over the past several years, 18 different companies have come up with different 19 standards. Some will access the records of the 20 Motor Vehicle Department in this state in order 21 to determine driving records. There will be 22 various questions asked. Presuming you meet the 23 individual criteria, those will be -- you'll get 7474 1 a car. 2 SENATOR WALDON: But there's no 3 mandate that the rental car rent to me a car if 4 I don't have insurance; is that correct? 5 SENATOR HANNON: Mandate? I 6 don't believe so. 7 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 8 Mr. President? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Hannon, you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, but, 12 Senator, Mr. President, I can hardly hear 13 Senator Waldon, not because of him but because 14 of the door being opened. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Once 16 again may we have it quiet in the chamber and 17 could the Sergeant-at-Arms make sure that the 18 door is closed to the outside conversation, 19 please. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Hannon. 21 SENATOR HANNON: Maybe I can give 22 you -- I was asked to carry this bill by Avis. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Pardon? 7475 1 SENATOR HANNON: I was asked to 2 carry this bill by Avis, which is a company 3 within my district. 4 SENATOR WALDON: They try 5 harder. 6 SENATOR HANNON: And I asked what 7 do they use as their criteria, and they pointed 8 out that they want to see that you have a valid 9 driver's license, that it ought not to be 10 suspended, nor should it be revoked, invalid or 11 surrendered. They look to see whether or not 12 there's been two or more convictions for 13 speeding or reckless driving within the past 24 14 months. They look to see whether someone's been 15 convicted for driving while intoxicated or 16 driving under the influence, driving -- or 17 someone's been convicted of leaving the scene of 18 an accident, or whether someone has been 19 convicted of possession of a stolen vehicle or 20 has used a vehicle during a crime. 21 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate 22 that, Senator Hannon. If I may continue, Mr. 23 President. 7476 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Hannon, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 continues to yield. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 But, Senator, the point I'm 9 trying to be enlightened about is, if someone 10 who were poor, has no car, came even to Avis to 11 rent a car, because of this insurance 12 requirement Avis could not rent them a car? 13 SENATOR HANNON: Oh, in that 14 situation, no, Senator. What happens then, if 15 they don't have insurance, then under current 16 law and under -- continuing unchanged under this 17 bill, the insurance that Avis has would cover 18 that individual so that they would be able to 19 rent the car provided they just haven't gone 20 through the -- they've passed these thresholds 21 that are in their criteria -- other companies 22 have other thresholds -- but the insurance 23 coverage would be that of the company. That's 7477 1 not changed. 2 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 3 Mr. President? Mr. President, would the 4 gentleman continue to yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Hannon, you continue to yield? He does. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Hannon 8 -- thank you, Mr. President -- I don't think 9 that was responsive to my question. That is 10 their discretion. They can rent if they so 11 choose. There's no obligation for them to rent 12 to me as a poor person who has no insurance 13 because I own no car; is that correct? 14 SENATOR HANNON: No. 15 SENATOR WALDON: They're 16 obligated to rent to me? 17 SENATOR HANNON: No, they're not 18 obligated, but there's no discrimination. I 19 believe that was the verb in your sentence. 20 What I'm saying is to you, that it's only these, 21 it's the only standards they do, and they say 22 that they apply these quite uniformly because 23 they want them to be companywide standards, is 7478 1 that these are the standards. But that's really 2 in a sense, Senator, I would argue, a peripheral 3 question to this bill. We don't deal with it 4 here, and we don't offer it here. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, with 6 all due respect, it may be peripheral from your 7 perspective. By the way, I didn't use the word 8 "discriminate." I think if the record were 9 recalled, it would show that, but I appreciate 10 your putting it in, because that's what I'm 11 getting to that, if the companies have no 12 mandate to rent, someone who's poor, not black, 13 not Latino, just poor, would go to rent a car 14 they could be discriminated based upon their 15 poverty and/or color and/or ethnic origin by a 16 company because there's no requirement that they 17 rent to them. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Well, you take 19 the use of a hypothetical, and I think push it 20 far beyond what usually is done in a debate. 21 Nobody that I know of now has been restricted. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 23 Mr. President, I can not hear Senator Hannon. 7479 1 Would you please - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your 3 point is very well taken, Senator Waldon. This 4 is the third time in the last 20 minutes I've 5 had to ask the chamber to quiet down. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If you 9 have to have a conversation, take it outside the 10 room. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 14 you. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Nobody I know 16 has even alleged any of the actions that you've 17 built into your hypothetical, so that I don't 18 believe -- and believe me, I apparently, 19 especially with other companies, there have been 20 complaints and -- but none of them deal at all 21 with what you bring up. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 23 Senator continue to yield, Mr. President? 7480 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Hannon, you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 continues to yield. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, why is 7 it that you're addressing the liability problem, 8 personal liability problem, with this bill, but 9 not the property damage piece? 10 SENATOR HANNON: Actually all 11 problems are addressed in the bill, Senator. 12 SENATOR WALDON: So you're 13 telling me that - 14 SENATOR HANNON: But because of 15 the provision of no-fault insurance, coverage 16 under no-fault remains with the company that 17 insures the driver, as it is now and will 18 continue, so much of -- some people in the 19 insurance industry, despite what they say about 20 this shifting, that's erroneous as a matter of 21 fact, because we have no-fault and the primary 22 coverage for personal is on the company that 23 insures the driver. 7481 1 Let me point out, it's that 2 company that rates the driver in this state. 3 When you get coverage, the company goes after 4 the driver. They say, are you male? Where do 5 you live? What's your driving record? And then 6 they issue a policy, and the premium is based on 7 the differentiation, the underwriting that comes 8 about. 9 They're the -- they don't ask 10 you, do you rent a car once a year. So they 11 have everything within their control. In 12 contrast, and the reason for many of the other 13 things that have come about in the last few 14 years by companies is the fact that the rental 15 companies have absolute liability under New 16 York's statutes. No matter if they take due 17 diligence once the car has been rented, no 18 matter if they have a written agreement that 19 says you, renter, shall behave reasonably, shall 20 not let somebody else use this car, shall drive 21 it only yourself unless we have somebody else 22 authorized to do so. They have a strict 23 liability. 7482 1 Under that strict liability, the 2 suits against them have climbed to the nth 3 degree. When the trial -- I had two, three 4 years ago, a very comprehensive bill that would 5 have changed vicarious liability in this state, 6 and the trial lawyers came after me like there 7 is no tomorrow and said to me, "Hannon, tell 8 those companies they better do a better job of 9 screening," quote and unquote, from the 10 president. 11 Well, that's what they've 12 reacted. I didn't tell them anything. They 13 just know the handwriting is on the wall. They 14 couldn't afford to be in the business of renting 15 cars and also losing money. So some did 16 geographic differentiation in their rental 17 rates. Others did it by different standards as 18 to your prior record, and all of that, but 19 that's the result of when you have this 20 liability. It's continuing, and I would point 21 out to you that what this bill proposes to do is 22 not something unique, is not some idea that no 23 one has ever heard of. It's done by most of the 7483 1 companies now renting. This bill clarifies law, 2 and it's not something unique that would be 3 unique in New York State law. It's done in 36 4 other states, not just the little states - 5 Florida, California, Illinois. 6 This is hardly a unique thing and 7 if I can interpolate as to the point you're 8 getting to as to the availability of rental cars 9 to people who don't own cars, unless we make 10 these changes, these companies in the business 11 are going to further and further restrict their 12 free enterprise and go to a much more 13 restrictive system. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 15 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Hannon, you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, sir. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 continues to yield. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Senator Hannon, I have a son, big 7484 1 guy, six-two, 280, plays offensive tackle for 2 high school/college. Went away to school and 3 got a driver's license. Minute the insurance 4 company found out he was living in college for 5 four years, and a very reputable insurance 6 company, moment they found out that John Patrick 7 Waldon was my son, they kicked my insurance 8 costs up. John Patrick Waldon, a couple of 9 years later, had an auto accident. He had 10 stopped on the Grand Central Parkway because the 11 traffic had stopped. Somebody who ran in the 12 back of him totaled their car, did very little 13 damage to -- excuse me, reporters -- the Volvo 14 that he was driving, but the insurance spiraled 15 up. 16 With that information as a base, 17 if the insurer renter has an accident, whose 18 insurance goes up, his and, in turn, the 19 collective public or the rental car company's 20 insurance goes up? 21 SENATOR HANNON: You could make 22 the argument that they would -- if they couldn't 23 have rented, they would be driving the car they 7485 1 own and the accident would have happened in the 2 car they own, so the total pool of accidents 3 would have not gone up. But that's a 4 hypothetical, so let me address it by the point 5 of, if a renter right now has that accident, my 6 guess is, given the fact that 75 to 80 percent 7 of the rentals are by out-of-state renters, that 8 it's not going to affect the New York pool in a 9 statistically significant way one iota. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Wait a minute. 11 Mr. President, may I continue? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Hannon, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 yields. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Honestly, 18 Senator, I did not intend what you just said. 19 SENATOR HANNON: Well, my point 20 is you say that it's going to affect the pool of 21 losses in this state. Would that be -- or 22 you're saying that who will bear the burden of 23 that. 7486 1 SENATOR WALDON: I'm not 2 interested, if I may continue Mr. President, I'm 3 really not interested in the pool. I'm 4 interested in the individual consumers, renters 5 who live in the 10th Senatorial District. What 6 happens to them -- and by the way, they don't 7 normally -- the people I know don't normally 8 rent here in New York State; if they're on 9 vacation they go to Florida and they rent, or 10 they go to Colorado and they rent, or they go 11 upstate and they rent, or they go out to the 12 Island where you're from and they rent. 13 SENATOR HANNON: Aha! 14 SENATOR WALDON: But now, please, 15 what happens Rosedale, Cambria Heights, St. 16 Albans, they don't rent there. 17 SENATOR HANNON: Aha! Senator 18 that's the point, Senator. Most of the rental 19 is done in other states. Most other states have 20 this type of statute, so that when it happens in 21 those other states, it gets into their pool but 22 we're not reciprocating. When the people from 23 out of state rent in New York, it's not being 7487 1 shipped back to the insurance company in the 2 other state. That's what the this fight is 3 about. Some of the companies who are national 4 in scope are worried about what's going to 5 happen to the other states. They're not worried 6 about the costs of insurance to the New York 7 driver. 8 SENATOR WALDON: O.K. Thank you, 9 Senator Hannon. If I may. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Waldon, on the bill. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 13 on the bill. 14 I hear your argument and, as we 15 used to say in Brooklyn on Patkin Avenue, I hear 16 you hummin' but I'm not hummin'. I don't think 17 it, in fact, does what you say it does. I think 18 this bill shifts the liability to the person I 19 represent. I think that person is the least 20 capable of paying. I don't think that we have 21 to do what the federal government people did to 22 people like Chrysler, prop them up, in terms of 23 the insurance companies. I think that the most 7488 1 important person for me to be concerned about is 2 the voter/renter/individual insurer who lives in 3 my district. 4 I also wonder why we're doing 5 this when we're trying to limit insurance costs 6 in New York State, why we are again burdening or 7 burdening the individual person in terms of this 8 insurance. I think the person, meaning entity 9 corporate person, is best able to pay for these 10 kinds of liabilities and these kinds of 11 insurance costs, and I would urge all of my 12 colleagues to recognize that we have an 13 obligation not just to the business sector, but, 14 every now and again, to the individual consumer 15 and I hope we would exercise that right and that 16 obligation by voting against this legislation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 18 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 20 bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 DeFrancisco, on the bill. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This has 7489 1 been categorized or characterized as an anti 2 business bill and, excuse me, anti-consumer bill 3 and a pro-business bill. 4 But it seems to me somebody has 5 to pay the cost of the insurance, and it would 6 seem to me logically -- logical that if I'm 7 renting a car from a rental car company and that 8 company has to provide the insurance for that 9 car, that in some way that's going to affect the 10 cost of the rental car. You know, these aren't 11 things done in the abstract. If it's an 12 additional cost to the rental car company, it 13 would seem logical that they're going to pass 14 the cost on to somebody, and it would be the 15 person who is renting a car. 16 So how this could be categorized 17 as an anti-consumer bill is beyond me. By the 18 insurance -- by the car rental companies having 19 to increase their costs, it's going to affect 20 the consumer. 21 And the other fact, it's happened 22 to me on many occasions when I go into a rental 23 car company to purchase or to rent the car, I'm 7490 1 always asked do I want to purchase the 2 insurance, and I think what's happening in many 3 instances is people who may have coverage 4 already under their individual insurance policy 5 may be buying that insurance unknowing and 6 unknowingly, and as a result you are paying 7 twice for insurance while you're driving the 8 motor -- the car that you're renting. 9 So to me this is a consumer 10 bill. In the long run, it's going to fix who's 11 got to have the insurance and how those 12 respective risks are going to be allocated. So 13 I think this is a consumer bill. It makes a lot 14 of sense, and I hope we would all support it. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President, will Senator Hannon yield to a 19 question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Hannon, do you yield to a question from Senator 22 Dollinger? Senator yields. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, this 7491 1 bill makes the renters' insurance the primary 2 coverage and the rental company's insurance 3 coverage the excess coverage, is that correct? 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just refresh 6 my recollection. I've been looking for the 7 sponsor's memo. Is the current status in New 8 York that those are concurrent policies? 9 SENATOR HANNON: The current 10 status is all over the place. Avis is probably 11 the only one who is not making the owner's 12 coverage primary. I have checked; it was 13 alleged to me, so I had it independently checked 14 Hertz is doing it, National, Budget, Enterprise, 15 they're already doing it now. Companies, 16 insurance companies, are cooperating with them. 17 It's being done now. 18 One company has decided they 19 don't like this. Avis has a good reason to say 20 notwithstanding this bill doesn't become law 21 we're going to do it anyway. I mean it -- it's 22 -- what's happened is this has become some type 23 of talisman, some symbol of a debate. 7492 1 The original NYPIRG memos was 2 devastating. The only trouble was it wasn't on 3 this bill. They had to withdraw it and rewrite 4 it. Others have had to do it. This has nothing 5 to do with collision damage waiver, I mean it's 6 a smoke screen, so I hope I would -- if you've 7 heard a lot, it's because they're on the wrong 8 bill. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, on the bill. 11 I agree with Senator Hannon, and 12 frankly, I - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger, on the bill. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- agree with 16 the sentiments expressed by Senator DeFrancisco. 17 I don't see this as fundamentally shifting 18 anything. One is the rental car company will 19 continue to maintain the insurance. They've 20 still got to pick up the cost because they've 21 got to cover themselves for the fact that the 22 renter may default for some reason, may not have 23 an active policy, may not have disclosed it or 7493 1 something. So they're going to maintain their 2 fleet coverage. The user, the operator of the 3 vehicle, if he's already got insurance, driving 4 insurance, automobile insurance, has that little 5 rider that says it covers rental car companies. 6 Most people that have a car and that rent one 7 are covered, and it's going to be their primary 8 coverage. 9 What I see happening is that, if 10 you make it primary, you may reduce the overall 11 fleet coverage cost because there'll be fewer 12 instances in which the no-fault is tapped and 13 the actual liability policy is tapped, the fleet 14 policy is tapped, if you put the driver as the 15 primary or the driver and his insurance carrier 16 as the primary coverage. 17 I also agree with Senator 18 DeFrancisco. I think that this all comes out in 19 the wash in the way of higher costs for rental 20 cars and, frankly, at least what I've heard 21 here, I'm surprised there's opposition and what 22 may be, and I haven't seen all the memos, may be 23 the vehemence of the opposition, but it seems to 7494 1 me like it's good bill that will reduce overall 2 costs for renting cars in this state, which is 3 something we should be trying to do. 4 I'll be voting in the 5 affirmative, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Just a 7 moment while we make an equipment change here. 8 (Short pause.) 9 Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. Excuse 17 me. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 19 the results when tabulated. 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 1246 are Senat 22 ors Bruno, Gold, Kruger, Nanula, Ohrenstein, 23 Onorato, Paterson, Smith, Stachowski and 7495 1 Waldon. Ayes 50, nays 10. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 5 may we return to motions and resolutions. I 6 believe there is a resolution at the desk. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 8 return to motions and resolutions. The Chair 9 recognizes Senator Libous. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 On behalf of Senator Tully, I 13 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 6775-A, 14 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 15 did he being. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully, 19 Senate Bill Number 6775-A, an act to amend the 20 Public Health Law. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 22 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 23 bill was passed. 7496 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will call the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 7 now offer up the following amendments. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Amendments are received. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 11 could we return to Calendar Number 116. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 13 -- Secretary will call Calendar Number 116. 14 Senator Padavan, I'm informed by 15 the desk that the bill is high. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: There's a 17 substitution, is there not? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan, they don't have a substitution at the 20 desk right now. It will take them a couple of 21 minutes to find out where that substitution is. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Just lay it 23 aside for the moment. 7497 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside temporarily. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Stand at ease 4 for a moment, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 6 will stand at ease for a moment. 7 (The Senate stood at ease.) 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 9 return to Calendar Number 116, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 116. 11 Calendar 116, the Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 116, Senator Skelos moves to discharge the 14 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 15 11736-A, and substitute it for the identical 16 Third Reading 116, an act to amend the Education 17 Law, the Executive Law and the Public Health 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. Oh, there's a substitution. 21 Substitution is ordered. Now, you can read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7498 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 7 bill is passed. 8 We have a motion, Senator 9 Padavan, that Senator Libous is going to give 10 us. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 12 wish to call up Senator Volker's bill, Senate 13 Print 2109-C, which was recalled from the 14 Assembly which is now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Secretary will read it. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 885, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 19 2109-C, Public Authorities Law. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 21 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 22 bill was passed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7499 1 the roll on reconsideration. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: And ask that the 3 bill be restored to the order of third reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 5 the roll on reconsideration. 6 (The Secretary called the roll on 7 reconsideration.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Bill is 10 restored to third reading. Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 12 now move to discharge from the Committee on 13 Rules Assembly Print Number 9787-A and 14 substitute it for Senator Volker's identical 15 bill, and then I would like to lay this aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution is ordered and the bill is laid 18 aside. 19 Senator Padavan? 20 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Lack. 23 SENATOR LACK: Yes. I believe 7500 1 Calendar 1579 was crossed. We brought it back. 2 If we could please do the substitution and 3 re-pass, I'd appreciate it. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Secretary will read the substitution. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1579, Senator Lack moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 11724-B and substitute it for the identical 10 Calendar Number 1579. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution is ordered. 13 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, can 14 I ask for the same vote, please, with respect to 15 the substituted Assembly bill? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 7501 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: No, it 2 wasn't unanimous but the same vote. Do we have 3 that vote? We're going to resurrect the last 4 vote. We'll announce the results in a moment. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2, 6 Senators Oppenheimer - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Wright. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1579 are 11 Senators Cook, Oppenheimer, Saland and Wright. 12 Ayes 56, nays 4. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: 13 -- Mr. 16 President could we do 1397, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1397, 18 the Secretary will read. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 21 aside temporarily. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: While -- while 23 there - 7502 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Galiber. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: While there's a 4 pause, Mr. President, would you grant me 5 unanimous consent of the body to be recorded in 6 the negative on 1576 and 1589 and 1246. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Galiber will be reported in the negative on 9 those three bills. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 11 can we call up Calendar Number 393. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 393, 13 the Secretary will read it. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 393, by member of the Assembly Lentol, Assembly 16 Bill Number 6903-B, an act to amend the Penal 17 Law, in relation to the sale of controlled 18 substances on school grounds. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 22 DiCarlo. 23 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 7503 1 this bill is the -- really the culmination of a 2 number of years of hard work. This bill was 3 originally passed in 1986 by Senator Chris Mega, 4 my predecessor, and a funny thing happened on 5 the way to passing this bill. 6 This bill became law, and this is 7 known as a school yard drug bill. This bill 8 increased the penalties for the sale of drugs to 9 -- to people and children within one thousand 10 feet of schools. The intent of the bill was 11 wonderful. After it passed, the problem that we 12 found was that, in the bill, it said to persons 13 under the age of 19. So what had happened was, 14 what Chris Mega wanted to do with the bill was 15 to put people in prison who sell drugs to kids 16 but the bill said it didn't count if the sale 17 was to people under 19 years of age. It wasn't 18 to people under 19 years of age. 19 So what happened was you couldn't 20 do "buy and bust" operations on school property 21 and you couldn't put these people in prison for 22 longer periods of time. So, in 1987, Chris Mega 23 tried to amend the bill and was successful here 7504 1 in the Senate and was successful in '87, '88, 2 '90, '91, '92, '93, but the state Assembly 3 refused to amend the bill. They refused to take 4 the age requirement out of the bill so that the 5 sale to anybody within one thousand feet of 6 schools would be an increased penalty. 7 It's taken a lot of work to get 8 this bill here today. I can not understand why 9 it's taken seven years on a bill that passes 10 unanimously in this house year after year with 11 both Republicans and Democrats, why it took 12 seven years for us to try and put people away 13 who are selling drugs to our children. 14 We negotiated this bill this year 15 with the Assembly to try and finally pass it so 16 that it would be effective. This bill, this 17 amendment, was supported by everybody in the 18 state, all law enforcement agencies. It passed 19 unanimously in this house, and the Assembly 20 still wouldn't pass it. After long negotiations, 21 originally the Assembly said, we would pass the 22 amendment and pass the bill if you reduced it 23 from a thousand feet to 350 feet. That made no 7505 1 sense to me, but in order to try and get this 2 bill finally enacted, we agreed to reduce it 3 from a thousand to 350 feet. 4 After further negotiations, we 5 agreed -- they agreed to bring it back up to a 6 thousand feet, but they insisted that we put 7 into the statute that it excluded personal 8 property within that one thousand feet. We 9 agreed to that. Finally, after seven years of 10 working on this bill, one year for me, they came 11 back to us in the last few days and they said 12 there was a problem. 13 They didn't want to pass this 14 again. They were refusing to go along with the 15 bill that they have had agreed to. I have to 16 thank those people who came before me for this 17 finally happening. Number one, I'd like to 18 thank former Senator Chris Mega who originally 19 passed this bill seven years ago, and I'd also 20 like to thank my staff and his staff who worked 21 on this for many, many years, especially my 22 counsel, Bart Bloom and my legislative director, 23 Joan Fontana. 7506 1 I don't understand why it's taken 2 so long. When I came into chamber today, we 3 were visited by some young children, Senator 4 Pataki's children. We now have Emily, who is 5 15, who is seated next to me, and I was talking 6 to somebody and I said, you know, here is a 7 piece of legislation that was passed seven years 8 ago with all the right reasons, to try and 9 protect our children. There isn't one person in 10 this house who voted against this bill, in my 11 recollection, when it passed here four months 12 ago. For us to have had to go seven years 13 without this legislation so that we can enforce 14 this law is outrageous. God knows how many 15 children are addicted to drugs today or possibly 16 dead because the other house refused to fix this 17 bill. 18 I'm just proud and happy that 19 finally this bill and this change has finally 20 been made. I'm very happy that this is going to 21 become a reality, and it's about time that we 22 started protecting the most innocent among us, 23 our children. 7507 1 I would move, and I would hope 2 that it would get unanimous support as it did 3 the last time we passed it. 4 Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read - 6 Senator Jones. 7 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Will the 8 gentleman yield to a question, please? 9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 10 SENATOR JONES: I'm not able to 11 find a copy of the bill here. I just want to 12 know, I know one of the big problems with our 13 own local police, I heard you mention 19, and I 14 know one of their biggest concerns is that they 15 can use an undercover policeman who is over 19. 16 Would they be allowed to do this under this 17 bill? 18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. That's 19 exactly the reason why nothing was happening 20 under the old law because it's very difficult to 21 get police officers who are under the age of 19 22 to do "buy and bust" operations. Law enforcement 23 is very much in support of this bill. 7508 1 SENATOR JONES: Great. 2 SENATOR DiCARLO: And now we can 3 do "buy and bust" operations within one thousand 4 feet of all schools in the state of New York. 5 SENATOR JONES: Regardless of the 6 age. 7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 8 SENATOR JONES: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 19 bill is passed. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 21 President. Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Oppenheimer. 7509 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I made a 2 mistaken vote on Calendar 1579. I would like it 3 to be in the affirmative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: In the 5 affirmative on 1579? 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: M-m h-m-m. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 clerk will recall -- will record Senator 9 Oppenheimer in the affirmative as opposed to the 10 negative on Calendar 1579. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Padavan. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Call up 15 Calendar Number 1397, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1397, 17 Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1397, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 20 8020-A, an act to amend the Education Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation. 7510 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 2 aside temporarily. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 4 1574, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1574. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1574, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 8 5979-A, an act to amend the Tax Law, the Labor 9 Law, the General Municipal Law, the State 10 Finance Law and the Executive Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: If we were to read 15 the record of last year's debate, we would find 16 that it was about three sentences because we 17 keep getting this business every year. It's 18 opposed by D.C. 37 and AFSCME, CSEA, and in the 19 past Senator Connor and Espada and Galiber and 20 myself, Gonzalez, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, 21 Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Onorato, Smith, Solomon, 22 Stachowski, Stavisky and Waldon all have 23 understood this bill and voted no. 7511 1 Last section. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1574 are 11 Senators Babbush, Galiber, Gold, Kruger, 12 Leichter, Nanula, Onorato, Smith and 13 Stachowski. Ayes 51, nays 9. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 1246, 1246. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 7512 1 objection, Senator Leichter will be in the 2 negative. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator 4 Ohrenstein. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: And 6 Senator Ohrenstein, and Senator Mendez. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 8 take up 1397. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1397, 10 Secretary will read it. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1397, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 13 8020-A, an act to amend the Education Law. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: Explanation, 15 please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 18 Johnson. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 20 this bill puts into the Education Law the 21 definition of the term "drug dosage form" to 22 recognize that prescription drugs are 23 manufactured in different formulations and 7513 1 utilize different technologies to vary the 2 efficacy and toxicity. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 8 on. Senator Galiber. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Galiber has the floor. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: I have a -- if 14 the Senator would yield to a question? You 15 know, with the rise on this issue of the 16 economics on its way up and I realize that this 17 piece of legislation means a great deal to parts 18 of this state, more importantly parts of a 19 particular county which is contiguous perhaps to 20 yours. 21 It's my understanding that this 22 would save some 700 to 900 jobs, the Pfizer 23 people, is that correct, Senator? 7514 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's 2 correct. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: That the Pfizer 4 people said that, if this doesn't happen, that 5 they're going to move out, or is this just a 6 guesstimate that, if this does go through, that 7 they might jeopardize these jobs and move out of 8 the jurisdiction? 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, no, I 10 don't think -- Well, Senator, I think it's true 11 that this may be beneficial to a pharmacist -- a 12 pharmacy manufacturing company in Brooklyn but, 13 beyond that, this is a legitimate new 14 formulation of a drug which is more efficacious 15 and more helpful, and less expensive than the 16 previous formulation. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Do you have any 18 idea of what the cost factor may be if this 19 piece of legislation is passed in terms of the 20 Medicaid prescriptions in the sense of generic 21 drugs? Let me not put it that way. It's my 22 understanding, Senator, rather than ask the 23 question, it's my understanding that, if this 7515 1 piece of legislation is passed, that there's a 2 substantial amount of cost, something to the 3 effect that brand name drugs account for the 4 remaining 54 percent of the Medicaid 5 prescriptions. They are budgeted at $37 million 6 dollars this year for the state's share and the 7 total expenditure of $130 million. 8 I'm interested in saving the 9 jobs, but do the jobs become more expensive in 10 terms of the cost, the rising cost as far as the 11 drug itself is concerned? 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 13 think that's - 14 SENATOR GALIBER: I have a memo 15 from the DSS. They estimate that the additional 16 cost to the Medicaid general fund for the 12 17 month period 1994 and 1995 would be some 27 - 18 $29 million dollars. Is that $25 million 19 dollars, how does that balance out with the 7 20 to 900 jobs which I'm interested maintaining? 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, we're 22 not talking about anything but one or more drugs 23 which may be developed with a different dosage 7516 1 form. It's already under law permissive, 2 permissive substitution here in places where 3 everything is the same, including dosage form 4 and strength. 5 We're just defining "dosage 6 form." We're not changing the generic 7 substitution law. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: What I'm 9 suggesting, I think I'm sure you're -- Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Galiber has another question. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: So you 14 understand where I'm coming from, for example, 15 the so-called new drug is not available for 16 generic substitution and that that's the area, 17 once we get a new drug and there's no 18 substitution for the generic substitution, no 19 level for that. This runs the cost that we can 20 not create the generic substitution. 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, Senator, 22 I think there's a question of whether this new 23 drug, I mean I have a memo from the Epilepsy 7517 1 Association. They feel this new dosage form is 2 more effective for them, so it makes sense to 3 use the newly devised drug or the delivery 4 system rather than a generic substitute for the 5 old drug. It's more efficacious and more in 6 expensive and if it helps to make people better 7 faster, then it's probably a saving, Senator, so 8 I wouldn't -- I mean I wouldn't say we have to 9 go back to kerosene or turpentine on sugar for 10 sore throats because that's what they had when I 11 was a kid or hold a bag of salt on your ear. 12 They have new drugs now that have 13 been developed by people that make money; that's 14 what their business is. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: O.K., fine. 16 Well, we try, Senator, but apparently I'm not 17 making myself clear. 18 Mr. President, on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Galiber on the bill. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: I have no 22 intentions of voting against this legislation. 23 I'm concerned about the number of jobs that are 7518 1 going to be saved as a result of, or the 2 possibility of saving these jobs. 3 I just wanted to point out for 4 the record that, as a result of saving these 5 jobs, which is a worthwhile effort, that there's 6 going to be an additional cost just like when 7 you push in a balloon on one side, something 8 comes out on the other side. 9 Inasmuch as we can not substitute 10 a generic drug, this may be a cost factor that 11 we are or are not prepared to absorb, and I just 12 want to make that point, so I have no objection 13 to the bill except that as long as we realize 14 that there is a heavy cost factor for passing 15 this piece of legislation, the cost of saving 16 700 to 900 jobs. Is it worth it? Perhaps so. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: I would just - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Johnson. Read the last section. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm not here to 23 engage in a debate with Senator Galiber because 7519 1 he's a sincere person and there's ups and downs 2 and plus and minuses to everything. I would say 3 if the new drug is more efficacious, you have to 4 take fewer pills for a shorter period of time, 5 there may very well be a saving, so I don't 6 think it's necessarily so that this will 7 increase costs, and I think everyone should be 8 comfortable knowing that. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Smith. 11 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, on 12 the bill. 13 I believe that the discussion 14 that Senator Galiber is trying to -- or what he 15 is trying to get at is that a generic company 16 will not be able to produce the pill. 17 Therefore, there would be an additional cost 18 involved. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: I thought I 20 made -- I wasn't trying. I thought I made 21 myself crystal clear. I wasn't trying to show 22 that. That's exactly what I was saying. I 23 wasn't trying. 7520 1 SENATOR SMITH: Well, maybe it 2 got convoluted, but the point is also that 3 generic companies are eligible after a period of 4 time to reproduce these drugs that other 5 companies have founded, and the company has 6 spent a lot of money and research in development 7 and they should be able to recoup that money. 8 However, that's not even the 9 issue here. The issue here is that these are 10 life-saving drugs, and I think that has more 11 importance than whether it may cost a few 12 dollars or not, and also the fact that it will 13 save jobs. But the life-saving factor is 14 important, and that is what we should be looking 15 at. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7521 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Leichter to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Mr. 5 President, I agree with Senator Galiber and I - 6 I think it's also correct that he just didn't 7 try. I think he made a very compelling, very 8 persuasive case that this bill is going to lead 9 to an enormous increase in costs to the consumer 10 and it's going to lead to enormous increase in 11 Medicaid costs, because it's going to make it so 12 much more difficult to -- for doctors to 13 prescribe generic drugs. 14 One of the efforts that we've 15 made has been to increase generic drugs. I 16 think all of us know from our own experience, 17 from experience with members of our family the 18 enormously high cost of drug purchases, and the 19 way this bill is written, it obviously has its 20 -- as its intent to make it more difficult to 21 prescribe generic drugs. 22 Now, I have great sympathy for 23 Senator Smith's concern. They're trying to keep 7522 1 some jobs, but sometimes the price is just too 2 high, and I must say some of these companies 3 that come to us and say, You pass this bill or 4 else we're going to have to move out. Sometimes 5 we pass the bill and then they move south 6 anyhow, out of the state. I don't think this is 7 a way really to try to maintain 900 jobs by 8 socking it to all of the consumers in the state 9 of New York. 10 Mr. President, I vote in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 14 Senator Oppenheimer to explain 15 her vote. 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm -- I'm 17 a little bit confused. The ability for the 18 generic substitution would be -- that would be 19 available within a very brief, I guess I -- if I 20 may ask the sponsor a question if the sponsor 21 would just yield for a moment. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Oppenheimer, we're on a roll call. 7523 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I know. 2 O.K. Well, then, I'm just going to have to say I 3 -- I am going to vote in the negative though I 4 do believe that the generic substitution would 5 be available within a very brief period after 6 the termination of calling this drug or the 7 dosage by a different name or size, that it 8 would very shortly thereafter be available in 9 generic substitution, but since I'm not certain 10 of that, I'm going to vote in the no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative. 13 Senator Connor to explain his 14 vote. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 You know, it's my understanding 18 that this -- this form of dosage would be 19 available to generics within a reasonable period 20 of time, and it, frankly, is my view that the - 21 despite some increased costs, the company that 22 develops a new unique dosage form or 23 configuration ought to be allowed to recover 7524 1 some of its costs, and you know, in the instance 2 of what Senator Leichter said, once upon a time 3 Brooklyn was, I guess, the national home of the 4 pharmaceutical industry, and over the years 5 we've lost Squibb. They left behind a park in 6 my neighborhood called Squibb Park. We've lost 7 other large pharmaceuticals to other states, to 8 other countries. 9 We have maintained interestingly 10 enough through -- in days when there was 11 enormous flight of businesses from Brooklyn, one 12 large pharmaceutical company, Pfizer, and 13 they've had an interesting experience because 14 they had plants around the world, and around the 15 country. Their Brooklyn work force is the most 16 productive work force they have throughout their 17 company. It is a work force that, by and large, 18 is made up of people who are immigrants, members 19 of minority groups, and they are productive 20 workers and Pfizer has been a good citizen of 21 Brooklyn. It has stayed there. It didn't run 22 away. It operates in a way that the surrounding 23 neighborhood, the workers feel that they are 7525 1 really part of the community, and I'm willing to 2 give the benefit of the doubt to such a good 3 citizen, such a good corporate citizen. So I 4 vote aye. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Connor in the affirmative. 7 The Secretary will announce the 8 results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1397 are 11 Senators Gold, LaValle, Leichter, Nanula, 12 Ohrenstein, and Oppenheimer. Ayes 54, nays 6. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Gonzalez. 19 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Mr. President, 20 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 1574. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, Senator Gonzalez will be recorded in 7526 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1574. 2 Senator Markowitz. 3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. I also 4 would like to be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number 1574. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Markowitz will be recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 1574. 9 Senator Connor. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 I'd like unanimous consent to be 13 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 14 1574. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, Senator Connor will be recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1574. 18 Senator Larkin. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 20 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 21 negative on Calendar Number 1246. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, Senator Larkin will be recorded in 7527 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1246. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Seward. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. I would 6 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 7 negative on Calendar Number 1579. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection, Senator Seward will be recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1579. 11 Senator Nozzolio. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 13 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 1579. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, Senator Nozzolio will be recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1579. 18 Senator LaValle. 19 SENATOR LAVALLE: May I have 20 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 21 on Calendar Number 1246, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, Senator LaValle will be recorded in 7528 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1246. 2 The Chair recognizes Senator 3 Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 may we call up Calendar Number 843. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read Calendar Number 843. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 843, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 10 1520-B, an act to amend the Tax Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 16 informed by the Secretary that there is a 17 message of necessity at the desk, Senator 18 Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President I 20 move that we accept the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 22 to accept the message of necessity. All those 23 in favor signify by saying aye. 7529 1 (Response of "Aye."). 2 Opposed nay. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 The message is accepted. 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Goodman, an explanation has been asked for by 9 Senator Gold on Calendar Number 846. 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 11 this bill is one which amends the Administrative 12 Code of the city of New York to substantially 13 revise the unincorporated business tax dealing 14 with the following essential categories: 15 Number one is the treatment of 16 individuals and unincorporated entities engaged 17 in both the purchase and sale of property for 18 their own account and in other business 19 activities, as well as the method of taxing 20 income from certain investment activities, and 21 second, treatment of real property, less -- oh, 22 excuse me. Are we on the wrong one? 23 Sorry about that. I beg your 7530 1 pardon, Mr. President. There was an accidental 2 interpolation of memoranda here, and I thought 3 we were on a different bill. 4 Let me start again. This bill 5 exempts newspapers and periodicals published in 6 electronic read-out or display form from sales 7 and use tax. If you'd like some more, I can 8 give it to you, but that's the gist of it. 9 Would you like a further 10 explanation, Senator? 11 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you call 7531 1 up 1472. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read Calendar Number 1472. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1472, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 6 1226-C, Administrative Code of the city of New 7 York. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 informs me that a message is here, Senator 14 Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 16 accept the message. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 18 to accept the message of necessity. All those 19 in favor, signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Those opposed nay. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 The message is accepted. The 7532 1 bill is before the house. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 5 Goodman, for an explanation on 1472, been asked 6 for by Senator Gold. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 8 this reminds me a little of the two Englishmen 9 who were seated in adjoining deck chairs when 10 the Titanic sank. They met 30 years later 11 crossing to Europe on another ocean liner and 12 found themselves in adjacent deck chairs. One 13 turned to the other and said, "As I was saying 14 when we were so rudely interrupted...." 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Explanation satisfactory? 18 SENATOR GOLD: Not even close. 19 Not even close. 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: If you will 21 just allow the stenographer to take what I just 22 said about the bill preceding which is actually 23 this bill, I will pick up from there. 7533 1 I started to say seriously, 2 Senator, this is a tax -- this is a bill which 3 amends the Administrative Code of the city of 4 New York to substantially revise the unincorpor 5 ated business tax. As I've given you category 6 one, and I was in the midst of category two 7 which is - 8 SENATOR GOLD: Can you give it 9 again, Senator? 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: I'll be very 11 glad to. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Goodman. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Amends the 15 Administrative Code of the city of New York to 16 substantially revise the position of the deck 17 chairs on the Staten Island ferry. No, that's 18 wrong too, Senator, to substantially revise the 19 unincorporated business tax dialing with the 20 following: 21 First, the treatment of 22 individuals and unincorporated entities engaged 23 in both the sale and purchase of property for 7534 1 their own account and other business activities, 2 as well as the method of taxing income from 3 certain investment activities; and, second, the 4 treatment of real property lessees or certain 5 fiduciaries involved in owning, leasing or 6 managing of property; and, three, the treatment 7 of income from partnerships subject to the 8 unincorporated business tax. 9 Now, Senator, this is a complex 10 piece of legislation. The full memo describing 11 it occupies three 8-1/2 x 14 closely single 12 spaced pages, and I have given you the broad 13 outline, and I'll be glad to amplify on this a 14 bit more if it is your desire, but perhaps 15 there's some specific area which you'd like to 16 explore. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: If the Senator 22 would yield to a question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7535 1 Goodman, do you yield? The Senator yields. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Goodman, I 3 think you're right. The bill is 12 pages and 4 God forbid that we vote on it and understand 5 it. I don't want to confuse the legislative 6 process at this late date. 7 But, Senator, first of all, can 8 you tell me what the revenue loss is to the city 9 of New York? 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Just a moment, 11 Senator. For the current fiscal year year? 12 SENATOR GOLD: Pardon me? 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: The current 14 fiscal year; that is to say the one which began 15 the day before yesterday? 16 I'm informed that the bill will 17 have no revenue impact in fiscal year '95 but 18 will cost the City in fiscal year '96 and 19 thereafter. 20 May I say that the city of New 21 York strongly supports this measure? 22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if you'll 23 yield to a question. 7536 1 I understand it's a City bill and 2 I was just wondering how it fits into their 3 plan, financial plan and why? There are people 4 -- this deals with unincorporated business tax 5 which basically, the term itself declines itself 6 of people who are in business. They are not 7 corporations; they're in business, and we have a 8 tax, and this applies throughout the city of New 9 York, everybody doing business. I was wondering 10 the rationale for the city administration 11 wanting to give a tax benefit for people doing 12 business in these particular areas? 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: Let me see if I 14 can provide it. The bill is an important step 15 towards bringing New York City's unincorporated 16 business tax into closer conformity with the 17 general corporation tax, and it improves the 18 administration to certain UBT exemptions. The 19 changes proposed in this legislation would 20 develop in response to concerns that have been 21 expressed over the years by the private sector, 22 particularly the state Bar Association, CPAs and 23 firms in the real estate and financial service 7537 1 sectors. The specific provisions are the result 2 of extensive consultation with those groups. 3 Maybe I could give you just a little bit more 4 nutrition on this, Senator. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if you 6 would yield to a question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Goodman, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if you 10 will yield to a question. 11 SENATOR GOODMAN: Excuse me, 12 Senator. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Can I ask the 14 question? 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: You certainly 16 may, but with your permission - 17 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. The 18 question, Senator Goodman, was this. I don't 19 mean to be impolite. 20 Senator Goodman, as one of the 21 admirers of your wonderful use of the English 22 language, your extraordinary breath of 23 vocabulary and your marvelous - 7538 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Should I duck, 2 Senator? I feel a missile coming. 3 SENATOR GOLD: -- your marvelous 4 wit, I would just say that there are some of us 5 who don't have that capacity to take the six or 6 seven or eight pages from the city which make it 7 sound more complex than it is and, Senator, what 8 I'm always worried about, particularly in the 9 closing days of sessions, are not a bill -- and 10 I think Senator Pataki has a bill today, I may 11 or may not agree, but it's plain English. He's 12 got an idea; it's plain English, about four or 13 five lines. I may agree with it, I might not 14 agree with it. In my years in the Legislature, 15 the ones that always made me duck are the ones 16 that are either 12 or 70 or whatever pages and 17 you see new language and it's usually -- if it's 18 70 pages, the problem is usually on page 46 or 19 something like that. 20 I just want to know in plain 21 English, Senator, and I know that your intellect 22 surpasses mine, but talk down to me and I 23 promise not to be offended, all right? In plain 7539 1 English, who are the people and what are the 2 situations as soon as you have -- where the 3 Guiliani administration is saying, these people 4 shouldn't pay unincorporated business tax and 5 other people should. The guy that owns the 6 grocery store, the bodega, the newsstand, 7 whatever, these people pay unincorporated 8 business tax. I just want to know, and I will 9 be glad to vote for it, who are the people we're 10 really talking about here that are getting the 11 $10 million benefit? That's all. 12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, in all 13 seriousness, that's an appropriate question and 14 I think you're entitled to as full an answer as 15 I am capable of giving you so I will try my best 16 to be responsive. 17 The unincorporated business tax 18 is a city income tax on proprietorships and 19 partnerships. Since its inception in 1966, this 20 tax has been four percent. An enriched UBT tax 21 credit was added in 1987 which eliminated the 22 tax liability for nearly 30,000 small 23 businesses. The UBT is expected to generate 7540 1 approximately $414 million in 1994. 2 Now, merely to refresh your 3 recollection, this tax and substantially the 4 form which we have before us, this reduction 5 measure has been with us for two years. It has 6 not passed prior to this, but it is not for 7 those who have furrowed tax matters, unfamiliar 8 or suddenly uncorked at five minutes to 12:00 in 9 the session. 10 The UBT includes the following 11 exemptions which are the focus of the bill. The 12 additional exemption allows partnerships to 13 claim an exemption for distributions to partners 14 who are themselves subject to the UBT or the 15 city general corporation tax or to the banking 16 corporation tax. The solely purchasing and 17 selling property for one's own account exemption 18 provides a full exemption to individuals or 19 entities engaged solely in trading or investing 20 in property or stock option contracts for their 21 own benefit. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator 23 yield to a question? 7541 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Just a moment, 2 Senator. I'm not quite finished. 3 SENATOR GOLD: I'm trying to be 4 helpful, believe me. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: I assure you 6 I'm aware of that and I shall be as brief as I 7 can. In fact, why don't I just yield, Senator. 8 Go ahead, if you would like. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator yields, Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, to begin 12 with in the first sentence, as I understand it, 13 we're basically saying that there right now is a 14 double taxation and that we're trying to 15 eliminate that, that there are people who are 16 having monies passed through who are subject to 17 the tax, so we're not taxing them the first time 18 but we are collecting the tax, is that correct? 19 Say yes and you're okay. 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: In a number of 21 instances that's an accurate description. 22 SENATOR GOLD: All right. And in 23 the second situation, Senator, as I understand 7542 1 it, we're talking about people who basically are 2 trading for their own account. They're not in 3 business in the normal sense. They're just 4 people who may or may not make some money in 5 terms of their own trade, is that correct? 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: No, they're in 7 business in the normal sense. It depends how 8 you define "normal". I'm not trying to be 9 technical with you. This relates to the 10 businesses I just described which are legitimate 11 businesses; real estate enterprises, financial 12 enterprises and the like, okay? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Libous. 7543 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 2 if I could also have unanimous consent to be 3 recorded in the negative on 1579. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, Senator Libous will be recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 1579. 7 Senator Mendez. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 9 would like to have unanimous consent to be 10 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 11 1397, 1397. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection, Senator Mendez will be recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 1397. 15 The Secretary will call Calendar 16 Number 1428 and continue in record order on the 17 controversial calendar. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1428, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 20 7808, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 21 Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7544 1 Pataki, an explanation has been asked for on 2 Calendar Number 1428, by Senator Gold. 3 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, 4 what this bill does is amends Subdivisions (3) 5 of Section 440.10 of the Criminal Procedure Law. 6 That section provides when a 7 court may deny a motion to vacate a judgment and 8 it adds a new subsection (d) that says that the 9 court may deny a motion to vacate when a 10 defendant fails to show that any right was 11 prejudiced by his or her absence from a pretrial 12 hearing to determine the admissibility of a 13 prior conviction. 14 What this in plain language does 15 is, in the case of a Sandival hearing, which is 16 a pretrial hearing to determine the 17 admissibility of prior bad acts, under most 18 recent Court of Appeals decisions, the defendant 19 can raise that is an objection and have the 20 trial verdict thrown out even when there were no 21 prior convictions at all in his or her presence 22 at that hearing, would have had no impact on the 23 fairness of the trial. So what this says is 7545 1 that a defendant would have to show that the 2 right was prejudiced by being absent at that 3 hearing. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 5 yield to a question? 6 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes, certainly, 7 Senator Gold. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Pataki yields, Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, this is 11 essentially the explanation we got from counsel 12 in the Rules Committee, but I'll tell you the 13 part that I don't understand. 14 In my understanding, a so-called 15 Sandival motion -- it's called Sandival for 16 those non-lawyers because it refers to a case, 17 People against Sandival -- is a situation where 18 there is either a prior conviction or something 19 in someone's background which is of negative 20 impact, and in the normal course would be 21 admissible against that person or used against 22 that person in a criminal trial, but because of 23 fairness and relevance, et cetera, you asked the 7546 1 court not to allow it to be used at the trial, 2 am I right so far, Senator? 3 SENATOR PATAKI: I believe so, 4 Senator. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. What I 6 don't understand, Senator, is if there is 7 something that you're worried about, somebody 8 makes the motion. If there is nothing, if there 9 are no prior convictions, there's nothing to 10 suppress, I don't understand how we wind up with 11 a hearing, and what I'm being told by you and 12 the counsel said the same thing, is that if a 13 defendant is not at the hearing which he should 14 be, but there's nothing at the hearing anyway, 15 there's no prejudice. I don't understand how 16 there's a hearing on nothing. That's the part 17 I'm - 18 SENATOR PATAKI: Let me give you 19 two examples of where there would be no 20 prejudice. As in the favor case that determined 21 this rule of law, the court said we're not going 22 to allow that prior conviction or that prior 23 charge to be allowed in evidence, so there was 7547 1 clearly no prejudice, and the attorney for 2 defendant was present at the Sandival hearing, 3 but because of the fact that the defendant was 4 not personally present, even though there was no 5 prejudice and nothing was admitted during the 6 course of the trial, the conviction was 7 overturned on appeal, so that's a perfectly good 8 example of why we need this bill. 9 SENATOR GOLD: May I interrupt, 10 Senator? That's an excellent example and it's 11 different from what I heard people saying. In 12 other words, that's a situation where there was 13 a conviction, the judge said, we won't allow to 14 you use it. It's not a situation where there 15 was no conviction and you held a hearing, so at 16 least we've cleared that up. You can't have a 17 hearing if there's nothing. The only other 18 question I have, Senator, is I understand the 19 predicament. 20 SENATOR PATAKI: Senator Gold, if 21 I may interrupt. There are other cases where 22 there were hearings, where at the hearing, it 23 turned out that there was no need for the motion 7548 1 because there were no prior convictions and yet 2 it still was held at courts to constitute a 3 Sandival hearing and allowed a defendant to move 4 to vacate because of their absence at that 5 hearing. Whether or not the hearing was 6 required, it was held. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Good. Senator, 8 again, I appreciate it and so far, I'm fine. 9 If you would yield to a question, 10 Senator. What I'm concerned about is the 11 following: In the two situations you just 12 described, I don't see any problem at all with 13 the court saying there's no prejudice, but what 14 about a situation, Senator, where there is, in 15 fact, a conviction and a judge rules that it is 16 admissible, and to some extent, there's large 17 discretion, and then you get to a point on 18 appeal. Under your law, I believe, you would be 19 opening the door for an appellate court to 20 excuse the absence of the defendant even though 21 at this point they ruled against the defendant 22 and they're using the conviction by a court 23 merely saying, we don't think there's prejudice, 7549 1 and in that situation, we can't possibly know 2 it. It may be that if the defendant was at the 3 hearing, he could have contributed and maybe the 4 judge would have ruled the other way, but it 5 seems to me that there are two separate 6 situations, and I think your bill is dealing 7 with both and maybe it should only deal with 8 one. 9 If there is no ruling at the 10 hearing that the defendant -- you can use 11 anything against the defendant, obviously 12 there's no prejudice, but I would think that if 13 there's a ruling against the defendant, and he 14 was not present, I think that that is a complete 15 and different situation. 16 SENATOR PATAKI: Well, in that 17 case, there are two different options. The 18 defendant can raise the point that they were 19 prejudiced by not being present, and the court 20 can determine that that was, in fact, the case, 21 or a court, as the Appeals Courts do all time, 22 can find there was harmless error and there was 23 no real prejudice and allow the verdict to 7550 1 stand, so I think that that procedural safeguard 2 still continues to exist if this bill is 3 adopted. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. Thank you. 5 On the bill, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Gold, on the bill. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 9 think -- I mean, this is a technical area and 10 the Court of Appeals in its wisdom made a 11 decision and we are being asked to overrule the 12 justices, and I'll tell you what I see as the 13 problem, and obviously, the membership can deal 14 with it the way you want. 15 The law says that a defendant is 16 entitled to be present at proceedings. Now, 17 we're talking about defendants. We're not 18 talking about convicted criminals. We're 19 talking about defendants. They're entitled to 20 be present at proceedings. If they're not 21 present as this case said, there could be a 22 reversal. 23 Now, getting a defendant present 7551 1 at the trial or the hearing should be the 2 easiest part. Someone is convicted of a crime, 3 you get him to a hearing. I mean, we have this 4 -- what I think is oppressed debacle going on 5 in California and certainly with the television 6 cameras there and you got the money that O.J. 7 Simpson has, you can have O.J. Simpson being 8 present, but there are a lot of poor people and 9 a lot of Legal Aid lawyers and a lot of stuff 10 going on where maybe somebody decides that for 11 one reason or another, they're going to go ahead 12 and it will generally be a poor defendant, does 13 not have to be present. 14 Well, in the situation that 15 Senator Pataki first talked about, I don't have 16 a problem with that. If you have a hearing and 17 basically the result of the hearing is that 18 there is nothing that's going to be used 19 adversely against the defendant, that's fine. 20 It can almost be done by consent, but if you 21 actually have a hearing, and the issue is 22 whether or not things can be used against the 23 defendant, the concept of not having the 7552 1 defendant there to work with his or her lawyer 2 is a terrible concept. So Senator Pataki can 3 undo the court decision he's concerned about 4 without opening this whole door. 5 Now, Senator Pataki says, 6 rightfully, that, well, if they -- if they rule 7 against the defendant, he can always raise the 8 issue on appeal that he was prejudiced, but the 9 problem with that is the real world, and in real 10 world, if you now have somebody who was 11 convicted and the person who was convicted is 12 before the Appellate Court, under the rule that 13 Senator Pataki would throw in, a judge could say 14 or the judges in the Appellate Court could say, 15 "Well, yeah, it was an error and there was some 16 prejudice but, on the other hand, we think 17 there's evidence of overwelming guilt. We think 18 this, that and the other thing", and the bottom 19 line is that they can void the fact that the 20 defendant's right to be there and participate 21 was violated. 22 So, Senator Pataki, again, only 23 speaking for myself. I'm going to vote no on 7553 1 the bill. I would support the bill, by the way, 2 if you limited it to situations where there 3 basically there was no ruling against the 4 defendant. I mean, you can't do any better than 5 winning the motion whether you're there or not, 6 and I would certainly support you there, but to 7 open the door to a situation where you can void 8 the presence of a defendant in a criminal 9 situation, I think is a very dangerous thing. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 18 the results untabulated. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 5, 20 Senators Connor, Gold, Leichter, Smith and 21 Waldon recorded in the negative. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 23 think Senator Waldon wants to be recognized, but 7554 1 before we recognize him, Senator Pataki, I want 2 the record to indicate that if Emily wasn't 3 here, it would have been a longer debate. 4 (Laughter.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Waldon. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 For the written record, I request 11 respectfully unanimous consent to be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 1574. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Waldon will be recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 1574. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will continue to call the roll. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1473, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 1304, 22 an act to restore funds to school districts. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 7555 1 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Gold, as 2 you know, this bill has been before this body in 3 other years, and the genesis of the bill was, 4 the steps that we had to take beginning in 5 fiscal year '90-91 as it related to the state 6 aid to education formula, and over a period of 7 years, formula state aid to education was cut by 8 almost $935 million. 9 It was then the position of the 10 Majority and some of the members on your side of 11 the aisle that when the economic health of New 12 York State began to turn the corner, that we 13 should make a restoration of the state aid to 14 education that was cut over seven fiscal years. 15 We began that process under this 16 bill this year, Senator Gold. We increased 17 state aid to education on a formula basis by 18 $435 million plus $34 million in growth aid. 19 What the bill calls for -- and I 20 was very interested by your comments in 21 conversation yesterday with Senator Stafford 22 because you -- because this year's state -- this 23 year's increase in state aid to education that 7556 1 meets the mandate of the bill was a part of the 2 appropriations in the budget, so we have 3 restored the 14.25 or $266,000,930 as a part of 4 our increase in state aid to education, and I 5 would hope - 6 SENATOR GOLD: No, that's all 7 right, Senator. Go ahead. I didn't mean to 8 interrupt. 9 SENATOR LEVY: I would hope, 10 Senator, that all of the members of this chamber 11 would join with me and my colleagues on this 12 side of the aisle, and Senator Cook is a 13 principal sponsor of this bill with me, the 14 Chair of Education, to make a commitment that 15 over the period of years set forth in this bill 16 at the latest, if not sooner, we would get back 17 to where we were with the level of formula 18 driven state aid to education to our school 19 districts at the time that we began the cuts. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 21 yield to a question? 22 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 7557 1 will the Senator yield to a question? 2 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, absolutely, 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy, if I 5 am not mistaken, you and other members of this 6 body voted for a budget 60 or 69 days late, and 7 that budget had enpenditures, it had taxes, it 8 had all kinds of things. I am told that this 9 bill will cost for the school year commencing 10 July 1, 1994, about $103 million. Is that in 11 our budget? Is that part of the budget we 12 passed? 13 SENATOR LEVY: I know you were on 14 the telephone, Senator Gold, but I indicated to 15 you that we increase state aid to education by 16 $435 million in formula A. Having done that, we 17 meet the mandate of this bill as it relates to 18 the first year of the restoration of the cuts in 19 state aid to education. We have not only -- we 20 have not only restored $266,000,930 that we cut, 21 but we've gone over that with $435 million of 22 restored and increased state aid to education 23 plus $34 million in growth aid. We've met the 7558 1 mandate of the bill. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Wonderful. Will 3 the Senator yield to a question? 4 SENATOR LEVY: Yeah, and 5 incidentally, it was a budget with tax cuts, not 6 taxes. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Right. Will the 8 Senator yield to a question, please? 9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy, are 11 you telling me that this bill merely reflects 12 what the budget has already done for this fiscal 13 year and then carries a formula for other fiscal 14 years? 15 SENATOR LEVY: What this bill 16 does is to -- starting this year, to restore the 17 dollars that had been cut and, yes, it meets the 18 mandate of this bill for fiscal year '94-95. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Will you yield to 20 one more question? 21 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Are you telling me 23 that the way the budget is now, if we don't pass 7559 1 this legislation, we don't know where to put the 2 money that we've already appropriated for 3 education? 4 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, what this 5 bill does is over a period of seven years, 6 restore the cuts in state aid to education and 7 we put the money into the budget to do the first 8 year of the restoration, and what this bill does 9 is - 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you're 11 not answering my question. I understand what 12 you're saying, Senator. You're very 13 articulate. I would just like you to answer the 14 question I'm asking. 15 If we do not pass this bill, are 16 you telling me that there's a problem with the 17 education budget as we have already passed it 18 for this fiscal year? 19 SENATOR LEVY: There is no 20 problem with it, but it will not pick up what 21 this bill intends to do for the next six years 22 to get at fully restoring all of the cuts in 23 formula A. 7560 1 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 2 Senator Stavisky. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 4 may I be recognized. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator Levy, 7 will you yield to a question? 8 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Your bill was 10 reported -- this bill was reported from the 11 Senate Finance Committee, is that correct? 12 SENATOR LEVY: I tell you, 13 Senator, I would have really have to look in the 14 index. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Did it bypass 16 the Senate Finance Committee? 17 SENATOR LEVY: Pardon me? 18 Senator, I don't know. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: You don't 20 know? 21 SENATOR LEVY: I don't know, but 22 if it -- I certainly -- we certainly could find 23 that information out. 7561 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: May I ask the 2 chairman of the Senate Finance Committee if he 3 would clarify that question? 4 Senator Stafford, was this bill 5 reported from the Senate Finance Committee? 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: We find 7 usually that at this time of the session that 8 whenever there is an excellent bill like this, 9 that Senator Levy has this at this time, the 10 staff of the Finance Committee worked with 11 Senator Levy and I'm sure that we were involved, 12 and I have a memo in support of the bill from 13 the Senate Finance staff, so that points out 14 that it was worked on. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: But you're 16 telling us it did not go to the Senate Finance 17 Committee for a vote. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: It was 19 committed to Finance. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: It was not 21 considered. Do I have a group of bills for you 22 to bypass your committee, we could keep going 23 indefinitely. Senator Stafford, you and Senator 7562 1 Levy are two of my favorite Senators, and I feel 2 embarrassed to ask this kind of question, 3 because of my respect for you. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: It indicates 5 that it was printed to be committed to the 6 Committee on Finance. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: It still has 8 to go back to Finance? 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, it was in 10 Finance. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: It was in 12 finance, and there was a vote from the Senate 13 Finance Committee to report this bill? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, there 15 was -- as I mentioned to you, the Finance 16 Committee has been very involved in this and 17 have a memo in support of this. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: The staff of 19 the Finance Committee but not the members of the 20 committee, is that correct? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, we can 22 get the details exactly the way - 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think that's 7563 1 what you're saying, Senator Stafford. Perhaps, 2 your aide could clarify that point for you and 3 then clarify it for me. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: I certainly 5 will look forward to doing that. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you very 7 much. 8 What I'm saying, in effect, 9 Senator Levy and Senator Stafford, with profound 10 respect for both of you, is that this looks like 11 there are two fiscal committees in the New York 12 State Senate. One fiscal committee that 13 considers the ramifications of measures of far 14 less cost and far less import when the Finance 15 Committee does operate, and then this little 16 bill, only $1 billion for the rest of the decade 17 and a quarter of $1 billion perhaps right now. 18 This little bill doesn't require the support or 19 the consideration by the Senate Finance 20 Committee. 21 Gentlemen, I ask you -- ladies 22 and gentlemen, I ask you, please let us not make 23 a mockery of our procedures in this house with 7564 1 regard to legislation that goes and is voted 2 upon by the Senate Finance Committee and let us 3 not make a mockery of the annual fiscal 4 budgetary procedure. 5 This is the kind of bill that 6 deserves consideration, Senator Levy, but not in 7 this manner. This is the kind of bill that 8 deserved consideration at the annual budget 9 negotiations but not in this ex post facto 10 manner. It's as though this bill were 11 considered unrelated to the budgetary process 12 with no fiscal implications whatsoever, and I 13 know if I were to talk -- if I were to speak 14 with you privately, both of you gentlemen would 15 acknowledge that there are serious fiscal 16 implications here that should not have bypassed 17 the Senate Finance Committee on which I don't 18 even serve, so I'm not asking for any 19 recognition for a committee on which I serve. 20 I'm asking for recognition for your rules of 21 procedure and your concern about fiscal costs. 22 Yesterday, in an attempt to crack 23 down on spending, in an attempt to pursue tax 7565 1 and expenditure limitations, the Senate -- this 2 Senate pursued an entirely different direction, 3 and now there appears to be no consideration for 4 that direction, and I believe that this is a 5 sham, and a shame that does not reflect well on 6 the consistency, let alone the policy-making 7 procedure of this New York State Senate. 8 I also believe that there are 9 serious flaws in what you're doing. Senator 10 Levy, I understand when you want to help your 11 school districts, I understand that, but it is 12 my understanding that some of the aid being, 13 quote "restored", end of quote, to the school 14 districts involved here, may involve some of the 15 school districts that are among the wealthiest 16 in the state, among the higher wealth districts 17 in the state, certainly not going to the poorer 18 districts. There are many poor districts 19 elsewhere that will not be receiving this kind 20 of aid. 21 I don't think that it follows a 22 formula. I think it's going to districts, 23 Senator Levy, if I may pursue that point which 7566 1 have been receiving state aid on safe harmless 2 and that is hardly an equalizing procedure. 3 You want me to yield? 4 SENATOR LEVY: No, I'm just 5 waiting for you to finish. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: What I have 7 here is a note. "Deficit reduction assessments 8 were based on relative wealth or poverty of a 9 school district", and that's the way the deficit 10 reduction assessments were made in the first 11 place, that wealthier districts were assessed 12 more proportionately than the poorer districts, 13 and what you're saying here with your 14 legislation is that now more money will be 15 returned proportionately to the wealthier 16 district than to the poorer districts, and I 17 think that unless there is fiscal equity and 18 educational equity in the manner of restoring 19 aid based upon fairness, that this legislation 20 is faulty. Instead, the money is being restored 21 based on real property taxation rather than 22 fairness or equity in the formula, and I believe 23 that if we were to take a look at the wealth 7567 1 behind each pupil, for some of the districts 2 that are getting aid under this -- and if you 3 want, I'll ask for those printouts, if you want 4 to lay this bill aside -- I don't think you 5 would be happy if I read off the wealth behind 6 each pupil of some of the districts that will be 7 entitled to restoration of funds based upon this 8 piece of legislation. 9 You will find that wealth - 10 relatively wealthy districts are going to be 11 receiving aid based upon this piece of 12 legislation, based upon the tax, based upon the 13 amount that was deducted rather than the equity 14 involved, and those are considerations that the 15 Fiscal Committee could have considered. Those 16 are considerations that the Education Committee 17 could have considered. I am not the ranking 18 Democrat on either committee, but I believe that 19 the Fiscal Committee, the Senate Finance 20 Committee and the Senate Education Committee 21 could have had a look at this, and certainly a 22 much earlier look than after the adoption of the 23 budget in the waning hours of this legislative 7568 1 session. 2 I respect what you do, Senator 3 Levy. This is not one of the finest hours with 4 this piece of late afternoon legislation. 5 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Levy. 7 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, I noticed 8 that you were reading as from a piece of paper 9 as opposed to the bill. 10 Senator, nothing that you've said 11 relates to this bill, because if you read the 12 bill, the -- this bill does not require that 13 state aid is returned to school districts the 14 way that it was taken. This bill requires that 15 each year the Legislature and Governor do a 16 chapter as a part of the budget, and this year 17 we did it with the formula, to determine how the 18 monies that are going to be restored are going 19 to be restored to each school district. This 20 bill does not, Senator Stavisky, require the 21 money to be returned as it was cut. 22 Last section. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7569 1 Senator Galiber. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Excuse me, 3 Senator. I apologize. I was out of the room 4 working on some other -- well, I was out of the 5 room. 6 Perhaps this has been answered, 7 but how much money is involved here over the 8 period of seven years? 9 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, Let me go 10 through it again, because while you were out of 11 the room, I explained what the bill did. 12 Senator Galiber, what the bill 13 does is to require that the almost $935 million 14 that was cut in state aid to education be 15 restored over a seven-year period of time. It 16 is to be restored pursuant to legislative action 17 each year to determine how that money is to be 18 apportioned between the state school districts. 19 This year we met the mandate of 20 the bill when, in determining how much money 21 would flow to our school districts, we increased 22 state aid to education by $435 million in 23 formula aid and $34 million in growth aid, so we 7570 1 have met the mandate of this bill for the first 2 year. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would 4 you yield? 5 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: I am told - 7 you certainly can give me the answer. How much 8 is this return each year? Is it 135 million? 9 SENATOR LEVY: The bill requires 10 that over a set -- over seven years we restore 11 the amount of money that is cut. Therefore, the 12 first year we would and we have returned 13 $266,000,930 as a part of the 400- -- the $435 14 million increase in state aid to education plus 15 the growth aid of $34 million. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: I guess what 17 troubles me, if we've already returned this 18 first year's money, why do we need this bill? 19 SENATOR LEVY: To make sure that 20 we return the rest of the money in other budget 21 years. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jones. 23 SENATOR JONES: Would the sponsor 7571 1 yield to a question, please? 2 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly, yes. 3 SENATOR JONES: I'm trying very 4 hard to follow this but I will admit to being 5 totally lost at this point. I understand the 6 state aid formula is very complex, but your bill 7 I'm reading says that this is in addition to 8 whatever we appropriate. 9 Now, am I understanding you to 10 say that this was already in here this year, the 11 money we appropriated, your money was in here - 12 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 13 SENATOR JONES: -- hoping we 14 would pass this bill? 15 SENATOR LEVY: No, no. What I'm 16 saying is that this bill sets out a schedule. 17 SENATOR JONES: Okay. 18 SENATOR LEVY: And we met the 19 schedule when we did the budget, appropriated 20 money to state aid to education and appropriated 21 $435 million in new formula-driven state aid to 22 education plus $34 million in growth aid. We 23 met the mandate of the first year of this bill. 7572 1 SENATOR JONES: Would the sponsor 2 yield to another question? 3 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Senator. 4 SENATOR JONES: I'm still not 5 sure I'm totally following this. Somebody got 6 together, looked at the budget for the state ed' 7 and we decided on an amount of money that we're 8 going to appropriate to education, is that - 9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 10 SENATOR JONES: Okay. But you're 11 telling me within that amount, there was this 12 extra amount some place? 13 SENATOR LEVY: No, it was 14 included in the 435- and the 34-. 15 SENATOR JONES: Okay. Would you 16 yield to one more question? I still don't think 17 I'm clear here. This bill was 1992, I believe on 18 here we passed it, so have we been basically 19 working with this all this time, putting this 20 money back? 21 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, we 22 haven't been working with it because the 23 Assembly hasn't passed the bill, but if this 7573 1 bill were to become law, we have met the first 2 year requirement under this bill when we 3 increased -- and again, it's like beauty. It's 4 in the eyes of the beholder. Some people in 5 this chamber or in the other chamber or in the 6 Gov... board or the Governor will say, what we 7 did this year was an increase in state aid to 8 education. Others will say it is a restoration 9 of state aid that has been cut. 10 SENATOR JONES: Would the sponsor 11 yield to one more question? 12 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 13 SENATOR JONES: All right. Would 14 we not have had to tell somebody, though, that 15 we've done this? I mean, would not anyone 16 looking at the budget assume that this is what 17 we appropriated, and then your mandate here says 18 now we have to have this addition. Wouldn't 19 have have to be delineated some place so someone 20 would know that our appropriation included 21 this? How would I know this? 22 SENATOR LEVY: First of all, the 23 bill didn't become law because the Assembly 7574 1 didn't pass it. There's no requirement that it 2 be done until the Assembly passes it and 3 Governor Cuomo or Governor Lundine signs it. 4 SENATOR JONES: Senator, let's 5 say they do that again. How do we go backwards 6 and say that wasn't really our appropriation, 7 our appropriation was minus this amount but now 8 that amount is there? 9 SENATOR LEVY: What we will be 10 saying is that we have met the provisions of 11 Senate Bill 1304 when we increased state aid to 12 education by 435- -- by almost $470 million. 13 SENATOR JONES: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 On the bill. I have been willing 16 to go along with almost everything I've heard 17 here that will help education, but this one I 18 have to -- have hold of the line here. I really 19 am totally confused and it makes no sense to 20 me. Again, it says to me we're spending money 21 that we don't have. I agree we shouldn't have 22 cut education. I was part of the system in 23 those days when everybody was worrying about how 7575 1 programs could continue and what we were going 2 to do for money, so I agree with you, you 3 shouldn't have cut education, but then you 4 shouldn't have cut revenue sharing and lots of 5 things, and it's not possible to give it all 6 back. I mean, I certainly agree that next year 7 if we have money and it's available, then we 8 should look at giving more to education, but it 9 really doesn't make -- to me, this like we're 10 trying to rewrite history and that's really hard 11 to do. I just can't go along with this, so I 12 certainly will support any increase in aid to 13 education, this year, next year, whenever the 14 money is there, but I can't support something 15 that spends money, first of all, we don't have 16 and it's attempting to go back and fix something 17 that I would have to assume your judgment told 18 you at the time was the only thing we could do, 19 so I'm going to have to vote no on this one. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Onorato. 21 SENATOR ONORATO: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Would the Senator yield to a 7576 1 question? 2 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly, 3 Senator. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: I guess with 5 all of this, I'm probably just as confused as 6 everyone else is. You're stating that there's 7 an appropriation -- the budget has already been 8 pass and let just throw out a figure that we've 9 appropriated $1 billion for aid to education. 10 You're now saying that there is an additional 11 $400 million in that budget, that if we pass or 12 don't pass it, that you're going to use this 13 money to expend -- further give some more aid 14 back to the districts. If we don't pass it, 15 we'll have an excess of $400 billion in the 16 budget. If we do pass it, then we can 17 distribute that $400 million. Is that what 18 you're telling us? 19 SENATOR LEVY: No, Senator, I'm 20 not telling you that. 21 This bill for this fiscal year 22 does not require one additional penny to be 23 appropriated in state aid to education. This 7577 1 bill says that we have met the mandate under 2 this bill if it were to become law when we 3 passed the budget and we appropriated $435 4 million in state aid to education and $34 5 million in growth aid. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Dollinger 8 asked for recognition next. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, let me see if I can clear up the 11 confusion, Senator Levy, if you would just 12 respond to a couple of questions. 13 As I understand this bill, what 14 happened in the past was that in the period of 15 financial distress in this state, this 16 Legislature took, it said $900 million or so 17 from the state's school districts by reduction 18 in the state aid to those districts. That was 19 the December cuts, as I recall in '91 or '92, is 20 that correct? 21 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. It was cut 22 over three years, Senator Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. What 7578 1 the intent of this bill is to commit that we 2 will restore those funds. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Over -- the intent 4 of this bill is that over a seven-year period of 5 time, we will restore $934 million, almost $935 6 million it was cut. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Let me ask 8 what I think was the question that Senator 9 Stavisky -- or the comment that Senator Stavisky 10 made and you were shaking your head as though it 11 wasn't quite accurate. 12 My understanding is that the $935 13 million worth of cuts were largely a apportioned 14 to be more -- to impact more on wealthier 15 district and less on the poor. 16 SENATOR LEVY: This bill has 17 nothing do with that, Senator, because this bill 18 does not say that the money that was cut when we 19 restore it will go back to the districts in the 20 same amounts that it was cut. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 22 SENATOR LEVY: What this bill 23 does is say that each year when we restore - 7579 1 restore part of the $935 million that was cut, 2 you and I and all the members in the Assembly 3 and the Governor will determine how that money 4 is going to be apportioned among the school 5 districts. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. That's 7 -- let me just make sure I understand that, 8 Senator. On page 2 of the bill, what you're 9 saying is that section that says "shall be 10 appropriated for supplement support for public 11 schools from appropriations authorized by the 12 Legislature for such purposes to be apportioned 13 to each school district in accordance with the 14 provisions to be adopted annually." What you're 15 saying is, so I understand it clearly, is that 16 what this bill says is, we're committed to 17 restore those cuts, but we'll do it depending on 18 what we've got in the bank each year - 19 SENATOR LEVY: What I'm saying 20 is - 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- and 22 depending on how we decide to - 23 SENATOR LEVY: I'm saying, each 7580 1 year we will determine whether we're going to do 2 it, how much it's going to be, and how we're 3 going to apportion it among the school 4 districts. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So -- again, 6 so I'm perfectly -- this is a bill which you see 7 as a commitment to the state's public school 8 districts that we will make every effort to 9 restore the money, and we may not be able to do 10 it because, as you know, the financial 11 circumstances of this state could change. This 12 bill really is a commitment not -- I won't say 13 an unfunded commitment but a commitment to give 14 them the sense that that's going to be one of 15 our priorities in dealing with it. 16 SENATOR LEVY: And we're going to 17 do it but we have to appropriate the money each 18 year to do it - 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Correct. 20 SENATOR LEVY: -- as a part of 21 the budget process and we're going to do it 22 globally. We are not committing ourselves - 23 we're doing it globally, that we are going to do 7581 1 for all of the state school districts and then 2 we're going to decide each year how to apportion 3 the money among the districts. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, on the bill. 6 I appreciate Senator Levy's 7 Comments. I think you clarified for me at least 8 what this bill does. My concern was the concern 9 that Senator Stavisky had expressed was that I 10 represent an urban school district and suburban 11 school districts as well. If you had said that 12 what you're going to do is reapportion money to 13 the school districts from whom it was taken in 14 the first place, it would then be in a situation 15 where we would be using our scarce additional 16 educational resources to distribute money to 17 school districts that were wealthier at the 18 expense of the scarce resources being 19 distributed to poorer districts. 20 What I here you saying is we will 21 simply look to restore what we took back because 22 of our financial circumstances in the early 90s, 23 and we will do it as we see fit taking into 7582 1 account the formula discussions that we had 2 earlier this year at the time of the budget and 3 last year at the time of the budget with respect 4 to the distribution to districts that need it, 5 may have greater needs and those that may have 6 greater resources, so you clarified it for me. 7 I'll decide how I'm going to vote in a second 8 but at least I fully understand it and I 9 appreciate it. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Last section. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President - 12 I'm sorry. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 15 for as many years as I have been here, I have 16 noted the absence of a permanent school aid 17 formula, and instead each year there is the 18 annual ritual almost like the mating dance of 19 some exotic birds in which the Assembly and the 20 Senate and then the Governor are involved. 21 Why I have asked reasonable 22 people, doesn't the state of New York have a 23 permanent school aid formula? That's a 7583 1 reasonable question. There are many other 2 entitlement programs and apportionment programs 3 which are not renegotiated from year to year, 4 and the reason that comes back is two fold: 5 One, there are some legislators who want to make 6 their constituents in the educational field 7 continually obligated to that, so they get the 8 respect and the appreciation and maybe the votes 9 for doing certain things for those school 10 districts, and that, I can understand, but a 11 second less political, more fundamental reason 12 is that we cannot project the economic 13 indicators for the United States or for the 14 state of New York in advance. 15 Will our revenue receipts be 16 identical? Will they be higher or will they be 17 lower? Will the economy be in distress or 18 sailing away to higher and higher heights, and 19 for this less political reason, not knowing what 20 the conditions will be from year to year, the 21 Legislature collectively, Assembly and Senate 22 have decided that it's necessary to have the 23 issue visited anew each year, and that's what's 7584 1 wrong with Senator Levy's bill. 2 He says, "Don't bother me with 3 what the condition -- the economic condition is 4 next year or the year after or the year after 5 that. I've got a long-range magnifying glass, 6 telescope that will tell me that for the next 7 decade, we're going to have enough money to do 8 this." 9 Senator Levy, you can't tell us 10 that we will have enough money to put into place 11 what you want. There may be another period of 12 downturn in the economy of New York State. Our 13 receipts may not be the same, and you cannot 14 lock into place a commitment, a hard or soft 15 commitment that we will be doing this for years 16 to come. 17 I would urge to you patience. 18 You're patient man, Senator Levy. I know that 19 you have a remarkable memory for what you seek 20 to accomplish. I'm praising you. Patient, you 21 don't think? 22 SENATOR GOLD: No. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think he's a 7585 1 patient man and he's a reasonable man, and I 2 would think that Senator Levy would have the 3 ability in the next year to say to all of us, 4 "Look, ladies and gentlemen. If we have the 5 money, I would like you to put into place what I 6 propose in this bill, and if you think it's 7 fair, you should do it", and, you know, if you 8 said it to us that way, next year when we knew 9 what we had coming in or not coming in, I think 10 you would be doing a much better job and you 11 would be recognizing what the Legislature has, 12 in fact, recognized for decades that you do not 13 put into place a permanent feature in the school 14 aid formula until you know the conditions from 15 year to year, and you are too experienced in the 16 legislative process to have forgotten 17 fundamental condition under which we operate. 18 Do not lock in one commitment so 19 far in advance when we do not know the other 20 committments. There are districts that lose 21 pupils, and you know what declining enrollment 22 can do to your district and to and others. 23 There are districts that gain pupils. There are 7586 1 districts that gain wealth. There are districts 2 that lose wealth. There are districts that have 3 special educational needs, that are altered from 4 year to year, and all of these considerations 5 are important, but most importantly of all, we 6 do not lock in any part of the formula. We 7 visited anew each year. If we didn't do it 8 that way, Senator, I have very good 9 recommendations, I would like to bypass the 10 Senate Finance Committee, you and I would sit 11 down and develop a rational permanent state aid 12 formula, together with Senator Galiber and we 13 would then - 14 (Comment from the floor.) 15 -- well, we have more confidence 16 in you, perhaps than your predecessor. At any 17 rate, what we would then do is have a permanent 18 formula that didn't have to be changed from year 19 to year, and I think that's what is missing 20 here. We don't have all the answers at this 21 point, and you shouldn't try to guess our 22 ability to do what you're proposing here for so 23 many years in advance. 7587 1 That telescope is not the Hubble 2 telescope, and even that telescope had 3 difficulty. There were glitches in the Hubble 4 telescope, and I don't know if you were using 5 that to view the future, but we have no clear 6 indicators of what next year and the year after 7 will bring, so I urge patience, hold your bill, 8 hole your horses, stop this projection into the 9 future. That's only for a certain Hollywood 10 motion picture of firms that specialize in 11 futuristic films, but you don't want to do that 12 here in the Senate chamber. The Senate is 13 geared to today and next year to tomorrow. I 14 hope you'll hold the bill. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Galiber. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, just 18 maybe -- I'm not quite sure. Would you explain 19 line 16 in your bill? It's Section 2. You 20 know, there seems to be some ambiguity there as 21 to what's happening here. What happens to the 22 money? It says, "notwithstanding any other 23 provision of law to the contrary for seven 7588 1 consecutive years commencing with the 1994-95 2 state fiscal year for aid payable to each of the 3 seven consecutive school years commencing '94-95 4 school year in an amount equal to the sum of 5 one-seventh of the aggregate amount of 6 calculated or specified state aid deficit 7 reductions, S.S., pursuant to paragraph -- I 8 don't know what that says. 9 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, each year 10 as we do the budget, if we are unable to deal 11 with the mandate in that section of the bill as 12 a part of dealing with the budget, we will deal 13 with that section because, number one, the money 14 to fund the mandate of this bill has to be 15 appropriated as a part of the budget. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: It doesn't say 17 what happens to it. 18 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, we cannot 19 bind with this bill. We cannot bind other 20 Legislatures as it relates to the appropriation 21 process. 22 SENATOR GALIBER: In other words, 23 my grandma used to have an expression, "Are we 7589 1 buying a pig in the poke here?" If you can't 2 tell us what's going to happen, and you say, on 3 the one hand, maybe it will go back to the 4 richer school districts, it may not go back. 5 You haven't told us where it's going to go 6 except that, perhaps -- I'm not being facetious, 7 that I keep saying over and over again because I 8 put out news letters also, but if we put a news 9 press out in your area that says that you're 10 responsible for bringing $435 million back to 11 your particular district as a result of this 12 piece of legislation, but this paragraph said 13 absolutely nothing. It does nothing. It 14 doesn't tell us where the money is going to go, 15 how it's going to be used. There's no word -- I 16 just don't know what it does if you don't know 17 what it does. 18 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, this bill 19 requires us -- and again, I state to you, 20 Senator, in having drafted this bill, this bill 21 does not require the funds that are restored to 22 school districts to go back the way they are 23 taken. 7590 1 As I said to Senator Dollinger, 2 each year, you and I, the Assembly and the 3 Governor will make that determination through 4 the budget process. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: But they could 6 go back. 7 SENATOR LEVY: No, they 8 couldn't. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: It could not? 10 SENATOR LEVY: Each year when we 11 do the state aid formula or a chapter, we will 12 have to determine how the money is distributed 13 under this bill. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: And that means 15 that you do not know where it's going back and 16 it could go back to the same rich school 17 districts because you're not specifying how the 18 money goes. 19 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Galiber - 20 Senator Galiber, we cannot make a determination 21 as to how the money is going to be appropriated 22 next year because you and I have to make that 23 determination and the Governor and the Assembly. 7591 1 SENATOR GALIBER: I'm merely 2 saying to you, based on that statement, it could 3 go back to those same richer school districts. 4 SENATOR LEVY: Only if you and I 5 and the Assembly and the Governor signed the 6 bill. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: You've answered 8 the question. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take place immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 15 in the negative on Calendar Number 1473 are 16 Senators Connor, Gold, Gonzalez, Jones, Kruger, 17 Markowitz, Mendez, Ohrenstein, Onorato, Stavisky 18 and Waldon. Ayes 49, nays 11. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Without 7592 1 objection, may the record reflect my desire to 2 be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1246 and 3 1574? 4 THE PRESIDENT: Without 5 objection. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1546, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 9 7014, an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a second. 11 Senator Galiber would like an 12 explanation. 13 SEANTOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 this bill would provide a procedure for 15 establishing what would be known as rural 16 economic development zones. 17 When we established economic EDZ 18 zones, I found that in rural areas they found it 19 difficult to make the application to meet all of 20 the necessary requirements to become established 21 and even be in the running to be chosen as an 22 EDZ zone. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Would the 7593 1 Senator yield for a question? 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, you 4 know when we originally proposed this piece of 5 legislation, they took into consideration 6 various geographical areas; in other words, they 7 have a certain number downstate, a certain 8 number upstate. I did listen carefully to your 9 explanation now and also in the Rules 10 Committee. You're indicating that you're 11 changing the criteria of lowering perhaps a 12 census tract as far as the poverty criteria is 13 concerned so that you would fit into a 14 particular municipality, obviously that you're 15 interested in. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Not a 17 particular one, any one across the state. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. You know 19 how many municipalities will be impacted as a 20 result of this legislation if it passes? 21 SENATOR PRESENT: No, I can't 22 tell you because it's an optional application. 23 It would be limited to communities who have less 7594 1 than 10,000 population. They would set aside no 2 more than two square miles of land. They wold 3 have to meet the income qualification which is 4 two-thirds of the average and have an economic 5 base lower than the average. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: Okay. Do you 7 have any idea, one, what the cost factor will be 8 and, secondly, the notion of the economic 9 development zone was to lure those big 10 businesses into the areas so that the community 11 in general will be the beneficiary of the 12 bracketed, hopefully, whatever, economic growth 13 in that community, and are you also -- are you 14 aware that businesses have been reluctant to go 15 into these areas even with the present criteria 16 because it is not profitable for them? What 17 will this cost? Do you have any idea? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Cost to who? 19 Number one, I cannot agree with the premise 20 you've just set forth. Some of the economic 21 development zones that I'm aware that have been 22 established have been very successful in 23 attracting business, created employment and 7595 1 overall economic benefits to their area. Now, 2 when you say to -- "cost", cost to who? 3 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, as a 4 result of folks going into these zones, there 5 are tax benefits and a number of other benefits 6 to that particular business that goes in. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Some. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Some of them. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: For example, if 10 a new business comes in, it's going to be a new 11 business established within the zone. The local 12 government is not collecting any real property 13 taxes from it now. It's going to be new 14 construction, chances are, a new purchase, an 15 enhancement of value of that property and then 16 over a five-year period, they get a tax exempt 17 benefit from real property taxes, so that may 18 be, you could say a cost or maybe an earning to 19 the local community. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: When we use the 21 term "cost," you know tax credits we went 22 through yesterday with caps and whatnot, tax 23 exemption expenditures, whether we should 7596 1 combine them in a formula of some sort. So, in 2 other words, every time we give a tax credit, 3 there is a cost factor to it, and we've created 4 these zones, we've specified an exact number for 5 a particular reason. 6 On the bill, Mr. President. 7 Thank you, Senator. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 10 none of us are opposed to any instrumentality or 11 vehicle through which we're going to improve the 12 quality of life in our state, increase the 13 possibility of economic development. 14 What we have here is a situation 15 where the sponsor of the bill -- and by the way, 16 there's no movement in the Assembly on this 17 particular piece of legislation. It's a one 18 house bill and we do it quite often. I wish I 19 could get a bill out just to have it go one 20 house like you have or to star it, very frankly, 21 but the fact of the matter is that we can find a 22 good thing and we can then dilute it to the 23 point where it loses its effectiveness. 7597 1 What the Senator is suggesting 2 here is that there are a number of 3 municipalities throughout the state, he does not 4 know the number of them, but if this piece of 5 legislation is passed, I can't even throw out a 6 guesstimate how many municipalities would be 7 affected. 8 What we're doing really is 9 lowering the criteria and we're vitiating, if 10 you will, or not paying attention to what the 11 intent of the original legislation was. The 12 intent of the original legislation is to go into 13 the poorer communities throughout our state and 14 to stimulate the economic development in those 15 particular areas, not to hand out gifts to 16 communities which may not need it as badly as 17 some of those in the larger urgan centers or 18 contiguous or bordering on. I dare say by 19 reducing, which the bill suggests, the 20 population to 10,000 and making an economic 21 development -- not economic, but the poverty 22 line a little different, that we really might 23 find ourselves in a position where we are 7598 1 diluting from the other zones and encouraging 2 areas which really don't need the kind of help, 3 the help to the extent that this piece of 4 legislation would go, so I think this is a well 5 meaning piece of legislation, and I would like 6 to see it apply to the municipalities that the 7 Senator has alluded to in his piece of 8 legislation, but I fear that it's going to have 9 a serious impact on the original intent of the 10 legislation and do damage to those areas where 11 this kind of help is sorely needed and 12 notwithstanding what the sponsor is saying that 13 this has no impact on businesses coming in, 14 zones as they are presently set up have been 15 having difficulty at least in my community for 16 businesses coming in because it's not enough 17 reward for them in terms of the tax credits to 18 come into these particular areas, has nothing to 19 do with the safety factors or others, it just is 20 not profitable for them to do so. 21 Mr. President, this bill is not 22 going to go any further than this house. I made 23 for the record some of my concerns. This does 7599 1 not -- should not be interpreted as my 2 opposition to economic growth in the 3 municipalities that the Senator is now 4 responsible for, is concerned about, but I think 5 this would almost destroy a very fine program 6 which is relatively new and we have not had an 7 opportunity to really analyze how beneficial 8 this program is. 9 I vote no. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediate.ly. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 1, 16 Senator Galiber recorded in the negative. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: May I have 22 unanimous consent, Mr. President, to be recorded 23 in the negative on 1428? 7600 1 THE PRESIDENT: Without 2 objection, so ordered. 3 Senator Pataki. 4 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, 5 I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 6 negative on Calendar Number 1579. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Without 8 objection, it's so ordered. 9 Senator Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 11 would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 1579 and 13 Calendar 537. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Without 15 objection, so ordered. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1549, by the Senate Committee on -- by the 19 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 20 Number 8886-A, an act to amend the Public Health 21 Law. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 23 THE PRESIDENT Senator 7601 1 DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill 3 was already passed by the Assembly, and 4 basically what it does is that there are certain 5 health -- there are certain regulations by the 6 Department of Health which require lifeguards to 7 be at various pools in motels and hotels and the 8 like, and provides for a grandfathering of those 9 smaller facilities, smaller motels, and allows 10 them to post signs, danger warnings and the 11 like, to avoid having to pay the expense of a 12 lifeguard under those circumstances when maybe 13 it's not very cost-effective to do so. 14 There was approximately 800 15 variances granted since these regulations came 16 into effect in 1972 -- 1992, and what the bill 17 would do is to say that those variances run with 18 the facilities so that if the owner chose to 19 sell the facility, there would be no need for a 20 request for a variance as long as the conditions 21 of the variance were being followed by the new 22 owner. The variance would continue and follow 23 the sale. 7602 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1551, by Senator Pataki, Senate Bill Number 11 7988, an act to amend the Crimianl Procedure 12 Law. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: I believe the 16 distinguished ranking member of the Finance 17 Committee had a question and we are -- if we 18 could hold it for about a few seconds, we are 19 trying to get him from a very important meeting. 20 In the meantime, if Emily would 21 yield to a question. I understand he's on the 22 way in. Explanation, please. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 7603 1 SENATOR GALIBER: Thanks for your 2 patience. I asked for the explanation. 3 SENATOR PATAKI: Thank you, 4 Senator. 5 What this bill does is changes 6 the provisions under which certain eligible 7 youths can qualify for youthful offender status. 8 Right now those provisions include when they 9 are charged a conviction with an A-1 or A-2 10 felony, an armed felony, and rape in the first 11 degree, sodomy in the first degree or aggravated 12 sexual abuse, we would continue the provision 13 for the A-1 or A-2 felony, but expand the 14 categories for which youthful offender status 15 could be denied to include any violent felony 16 offense definded in Section 70.02 of the Penal 17 Law or any felony offense involving the criminal 18 possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun under 19 a certain provision of the Penal Law. 20 We would also amend the bill to 21 provide that the provisions where a judge can, 22 in the case of mitigating circumstances, still 23 find youthful offender status, it's a parallel 7604 1 that changes in the law. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would 3 you yield for a question, Senator? 4 SENATOR PATAKI: Sure. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: I go back quite 6 a way with this youthful offender business. 7 What you read off, what the present law is, I 8 had forgotten about that, but initially, they 9 needed an order -- for a youthful offender 10 treatment to be granted, you needed the approval 11 of the district attorney and the judge or mainly 12 the district attorney. 13 Are you suggesting in your piece 14 of legislation, which is a minor point because I 15 want to get back to the philosophy behind it, 16 that the judge after finding mitigating 17 circumstances on his own or her own would be 18 able to grant youthful offender treatment over 19 the objection? 20 SENATOR PATAKI: We're not 21 changing the provisions under which it can be 22 found, the mitigating circumstances can be 23 found, except to include the broader category of 7605 1 people who could be denied youthful offender 2 status. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: I didn't make 4 myself clelar. That part of it I haven't gotten 5 to yet. 6 In the area when you read off 7 where you ascertained or the judge finds there 8 are, in fact, mitigating circumstances, is it 9 your intent or does the legislation say in that 10 instance where he or she sitting as a judge 11 finds mitigating circumstances, that that judge 12 could then grant youthful offender treatment in 13 the categories that you have left? 14 SENATOR PATAKI: It doesn't 15 change present law. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: It does not? 17 SENATOR PATAKI: It does not 18 change present law. 19 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, would you 20 give me that mitigating circumstances section 21 again? Are you saying - 22 SENATOR PATAKI: Sure. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: I'll ask 7606 1 again. -- that if the judge finds mitigating 2 circumstances, can't go to the judge unless the 3 district attorney has consented to youthful 4 offender treatment, if he has not consented, how 5 can he go to the judge to determine mitigating 6 circumstances without the judge having 7 unilateral power to grant youthful offender 8 treatment? 9 SENATOR PATAKI: Senator, the 10 present law is not changed, except to the extent 11 that people under the present law, you have to 12 be an armed felony offense or rape, sodomy or 13 aggravated sexual abuse, we broaden that to any 14 violent felony offense, but the same provisions 15 whether the district attorney has to certify or 16 the judge can waive, that is mentioned. 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Let me go back 18 to what I think is -- Senator, on the 19 legislation -- because that's a matter, if you 20 find it, it's okay, if you don't, it's okay, 21 because we'll change it accordingly. Let me go 22 back to the bill itself and the categories that 23 you've changed. 7607 1 Perhaps on the bill, Mr. 2 Persident. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 Some years ago, and I don't know 7 how long -- I've been here 27 years and I'm sure 8 that the Youthful Offender Law was in the -- on 9 the books then. I know that because I was in 10 the district attorney's office in a social 11 worker capacity, adjunct, in the DA's office, 12 and we handled the youthful offender cases up to 13 a particular point and probation took over, if 14 they granted youthful offender. 15 The original bill, the original 16 piece of legislation started out excluding one 17 category, and one category alone, and that was 18 the homicide category. That was the only 19 category where you were not eligible for 20 youthful offender. 21 Youthful offender was probably 22 the forerunner of a deferred or possibly 23 deferred prosecution. What it did was to give 7608 1 to -- an opportunity to someone who had been 2 arrested for the first time, whatever the other 3 categories were, an opportunity by operation of 4 law to ask, when asked a question in the future, 5 Have you ever been convicted of a crime, 6 notwithstanding that he was granted, he or she 7 was granted youthful offender treatment, they 8 can say no, we have not been convicted by 9 operation of law or save the stigma of a 10 conviction, and that was one of the big 11 thrusts. First offense, save the conviction. 12 If, in the course of granting 13 youthful offender in the other categories that 14 you mentioned, and when they were not mentioned 15 there's a criteria for keeping someone out of 16 that category, judges were sending for the very 17 same time, youngsters in that category first 18 offense to Elmira Reception Center -- Elmira 19 Reception Center where they had to spend some 20 four years, I believe, or at least that was the 21 cap on the amount of time, so the Youthful 22 Offender Law in its original -- its original 23 intent takes care of the situation that you made 7609 1 reference to, and you're not the first one to 2 expand it because, as I mentioned before, 3 Senator, it was just that one category and maybe 4 about ten years ago, whatever the year -- I was 5 here when they did that -- it was expanded and 6 we're going to expand it again, and the idea of 7 expanding it is certainly a knee-jerk reaction 8 to what's happening in our communities. 9 The fact of the matter is that 10 this piece of legislation gives an opportunity 11 to youngsters wherever they may be, up in Putnam 12 Valley where my granddaughter is, an opportunity 13 to, if they make a mistake, not a serious one, 14 and we are not quite sure what aggravated 15 assault and who shoved, who gets pushed, it's a 16 misdemeanor, if you argue with a police officer 17 and you do it to a police officer it's a felony, 18 it's aggravated, in those categories, but the 19 thrust of it is to save the stigma of a 20 conviction and yet give the court an opportunity 21 in its wisdom to send someone to one of our 22 institutions if they find -- and some of the 23 ones you mentioned -- sending him up to Elmira 7610 1 or in the alternative spending five years on 2 probation. 3 So, Senator, I think -- and all 4 of us are sensitized to what's happening in our 5 streets, but we're really -- this piece of 6 legislation is slowly but surely destroying what 7 the youthful offender legislation was all 8 about. It wasn't an assault on crime that 9 merely sent some youngster through a learning 10 process. We all know that you learn by reading 11 and listening and making mistakes, and as 12 parents, we hope the mistakes are minor ones, 13 but what this law really said was, 14 notwithstanding a mistake, it's a learning 15 process and were not going to penalize you with 16 a stigma of a conviction which is going to hit 17 you and hurt you for the rest of your life. 18 The way that this piece of 19 legislation is worded and ultimately what's 20 going to happen is we're going to take this, the 21 real intent of the legislation and preclude some 22 of those persons who, unfortunately, learn 23 through a very horrible experience and that is 7611 1 making a mistake. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki. 9 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President, 10 just briefly, to explain my vote. 11 I appreciate Senator Galiber's 12 comments in opposition to the bill, but I would 13 have to say that I disagree with him. I don't 14 think a violent felony should properly be called 15 a mistake when it's committed by a 16-, 17- or 16 18-year-old. I think it's a crime, and I think 17 it should be a crime punishable as such and that 18 person should have a conviction on his or her 19 record, and that's why I believe this 20 legislation is necessary. 21 Thank you. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Pataki 23 votes aye. 7612 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 1, 2 Senator Galiber -- ayes 58, nays 2, Senators 3 Connor and Galiber recorded in the negative. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 7 1564, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 8 8821, an act to to amend the Education Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Explantion. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Explantion is 11 requested. 12 SENATOAR KUHL: Lay this aside 13 temporarily. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 15 aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1565, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 18 Bill Number 8822, State Finance Law, in relation 19 to the content of appropriation bills. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation has 22 been requested. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 7613 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 2 SENATOR KUHL: Could you lay this 3 aside temporarily? 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside. 6 SENATOR KUHL: And could we go 7 back to 1564 and call that up, please? 8 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 9 will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1546, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 12 8821, an act to amend the Education Law. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Explantion. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle. 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 16 I explain this bill on behalf of Senator Volker. 17 This bill defines and expands the 18 scope of practice -- practice of optometry. It 19 has been a subject of much discussion, great 20 debate between those that practice optometry and 21 those physicians in the practice of 22 ophthalmology for some considerable time, in the 23 halls of this Capitol. 7614 1 This year, Senator Volker brought 2 before our committee, the Higher Education 3 Committee, a piece of legislation, and at that 4 time he indicated that there would be -- that 5 the legislation would be the basis of 6 negotiations. The members of the committee - 7 and I must say, and I can't say it enough as a 8 chairperson, how very proud I am of the people 9 who serve on that committee and the manner that 10 they participate because they laid out very 11 carefully the concerns that they had about that 12 legislation, about the standards of care that 13 they wanted for the consumers, their 14 constituents in their respective districts, the 15 kinds of clinical training that optometrists 16 would receive and, indeed, the kinds of drugs 17 that would be used, and I believe we have done 18 that. Senator Volker has done that in this 19 legislation, and I might add, after many, many 20 weeks and close to about 100 hours, there is 21 agreement on the part of the optometrists and 22 the ophthalmologists on this bill. 23 We defined continuation of the 7615 1 diagnositic drugs that under law optometrists 2 have been allowed to use and we expand in two 3 categories the use of topical -- topical drugs 4 in two separate categories. In legislation, we 5 talk about phase one and the therapeutic 6 pharmaceutical agents that can be used and the 7 concomitant training that is necessary for a 8 person to use phase one drugs, that being 300 9 clinical hours of training and passage of a 10 national exam, and in phase two, those 11 therapeutic drugs that are used in the treatment 12 of glaucoma, an additional 100 hours, management 13 of 75 patients that must be managed over a 14 three-year period of time, must be done for 75 15 patients and the care of that optometrist must 16 be done within the three-year period of time and 17 also passing another portion of a national 18 examination. 19 There are other portions here 20 that tie together the optometrist with 21 consultation agreements, written consultation 22 agreements when we're dealing with patients, 23 glaucoma patients, and also signs in the office 7616 1 that indicate to a consumer the kinds of things 2 and the conditions the optometrist will be 3 working under. 4 Lastly, this Legislature has 5 taken on a greater sensitiviity and a greater 6 role most of the time at the urgent -- urging of 7 various professions to have continuing 8 education. This bill has such a provision that 9 allows -- that indicates that 12 hours each year 10 or 36 hours over the three-year period in which 11 they hold their certification, that they would 12 have -- that they must do continuing education, 13 and so I think we have -- Senator Volker has 14 achieved and carved out a very critical balance 15 in expanding the scope, recognizing the work 16 that has been done by ophthalmologists 17 heretofore, brought together consultation 18 agreements, additional training, continuing 19 education, and ensured that the consumers, our 20 consitutuents of this state, are indeed 21 protected, when they have a problem that they 22 will receive the highest standard of care and we 23 have provided that in this legislation. 7617 1 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator 2 yeild to a question? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I have in 5 my hand a memorandum from the Medical Society of 6 the state of New York in opposition. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Now, you said that 9 there has been some consultation between various 10 people in these professions? 11 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Has this memo been 13 withdrawn? 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: I don't have a 15 copy of it, although I did hear -- did have some 16 discussions with the Medical Society, those 17 people represeneting the Meidical Society. They 18 had some concerns, and this, by the way, goes 19 outside the concerns with the group that I had 20 indicated, those specialists, the 21 ophthalmologists, and I think that probably that 22 memorandum that I have not seen, Senator Gold, 23 deals with a play on some words. I have very 7618 1 carefullly indicated in here that there has to 2 be a written consultation. I think the Medical 3 Society would have preferred some other language 4 that really means the same thing. 5 I think the term that they would 6 have rather us use would be a "collaborative 7 agreement" rather than "written consultation 8 agreement" between the two parties being the 9 optometrist and the ophthalmologist. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: I have a 13 memorandum in opposition by the Medical 14 Society. I'm told by my counsel that the 15 representatives of the two groups involved have 16 signed off. 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: That - 18 SENATOR GOLD: Why that doesn't 19 translate through to this document, I don't 20 know, but I'm told that there was, in fact, a 21 sign-off. Last section. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 23 Markowitz. 7619 1 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator 2 LaValle, would you yield to a question? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 4 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I'm 5 interested in knowing, why do you perceive or 6 Senator Volker perceive that we need a change 7 from the current system, and the reason why I 8 say that is that I recognize the valuable role 9 of optometrists and certainly ophthalmologists, 10 and I'm interested in hearing from you why a 11 change is being considered at this time? 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I 13 think what has happened -- and it's one of the 14 reasons, by the way, that legislation dealing 15 with the professions is in the Higher Education 16 Committee -- we have as part of our SUNY system, 17 a college of optometry, a school of optometry. 18 Over the years, the technologies have changed 19 and the kind of education that optometrists have 20 received has expanded over the years. Some of 21 these optometrists have gone on and practiced in 22 a military setting which brings them outside of 23 the scope of our laws and has allowed them to do 7620 1 many of the things that they learned in their 2 school of optometry, thereby providing for many 3 of the newer optometrists a level of 4 frustration, because they had a level of 5 training that said you could do one thing, yet 6 our laws did not fully recognize that practice. 7 Lastly, we as a Legislature have 8 been receiving greater input from our 9 constituents about having more individuals in 10 the primary care network to do the most basic 11 kinds of things without having to call upon 12 someone with far greater training, and so as 13 things are pushed, we are drawn into that debate 14 in our communities and we have -- and that's why 15 this legislation is before us, and I believe 16 Senator Volker has done a job that establishes a 17 model because it very carefully walks the tight 18 rope and creates a balance that we desire. 19 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator 20 LaValle, I guess my concern is, I don't want to 21 set up a two-tier system. And what I mean by 22 that is, those of us that have more knowledge, 23 have greater access because of better health 7621 1 insurance -- I have a hunch, that if I went 2 around the chamber and I'm looking at all of us 3 that wear glasses on a regular basis or an 4 infrequent basis, and regularly visit an eye 5 doctor, I assume that the great majority of us 6 seek out the services of an ophthalmologist as 7 opposed to an optometrist, and I'm concerned in 8 speaking to a number of men and women in the 9 field that our ophthalmologists feel that for 10 those that are of more moderate income, and who 11 have to choose, for a variety of reasons, the 12 services of an optometrist, that that 13 professional might not be as well versed and 14 educated in terms of being alerted to the 15 potential diseases or eye problems that a 16 trained medical specialist would be able to 17 determine early on to prevent the deterioration 18 of sight. 19 So what I'm concerned about, 20 Senator LaValle -- that's my only reason why I'm 21 asking these questions. I'm concerned that 22 there are poeple that are of more moderate 23 income with less knowledge about this will be 7622 1 going to the optometrist, and those of us 2 including the members of this chamber will 3 naturally go to an ophthalmologist. 4 SENAOTR LAVALLE: Senator, while 5 we certainly recognize -- and the marketplace 6 has really driven us to allow a greater freedom 7 of choice for our constituents. However -- and 8 I was very specific and exacting about this. 9 The committee's charge, the Higher Education 10 Committee's charge to the sponsor and to the 11 chairman was that standards of care should not 12 be sacrificed, and we were very, very careful 13 about the kinds of drugs that we allowed people 14 to use. We increased their training in using 15 those drugs, and in those situations where there 16 was a potential for problems, we ensured that 17 there could be collaborative agreements or - 18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: But you don't 19 have that. 20 SENATOR LAVALLE: Excuse me? 21 Pardon me? 22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: You don't 23 have collaborative agreements. 7623 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: No, I misspoke 2 and I was - 3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Okay. 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: -- where we have 5 a written consultation agreement so that those 6 individuals with the highest degree of training 7 would be dealing with those problems that needed 8 that kind of training and that's when I talk 9 about the balance here, we fully recognize what 10 ophthalmologists do in their training and that 11 they should continue to do that. 12 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Senator, 13 another question. Who would determine -- would 14 the optometrist be the determinant to say that 15 "I'm not qualified to do that but it has to go 16 to an ophthalmologist"? I'm just really 17 concerned, Senator LaValle, just understand what 18 I'm getting at. You want to expand the 19 marketplace or the bill does it. I'm concerned 20 that perhaps we're setting up a different level 21 of -- a different level of health quality here. 22 That's what I'm concerned about. I'm just 23 concerned that those that are trained and have 7624 1 gone to school and gotten the necessary medical 2 education can prevent eye disease and can early 3 on diagnose potential problems to folks, and 4 that's what I'm concerned about. 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Well, Senator, 6 as -- early on, if you look at the legislation, 7 it continues what optometrists have been doing 8 in the use of certain drugs, which I'm sure you 9 were here, you may have even voted for that, to 10 allow optometrists to use diagnostic drugs. 11 We're now expanding that and we're saying for 12 therapeutic topical purposes. 13 In the definition, the practice 14 of optometry, we are very, very specific here in 15 cutting out in the definition what I think you 16 might feel is a safe harbor for all people in 17 recieving the highest level of care so that we 18 are not bifurcating our health care system, but 19 for those very basic kinds of problems, we are 20 providing for individuals a greater choice. 21 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: One last 22 question. You're answering the questions 23 Senator LaValle, and I appreciate it very, very 7625 1 much. 2 Did the committee consider the 3 possibility of establishing a pilot program 4 rather than enacting legislation that will 5 impact all optometrists? Has there been a way 6 to look at it on a pilot project to see whether 7 or not before we jump in the water totally, that 8 it's been reviewed and properly authenticated 9 and that unless to eliminate or to lessen the 10 possibilities of less than excellent care being 11 provided? 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: I appreciate 13 that question, and it'is a very, very good 14 question. 15 In moving from phase one, what 16 we're actually doing is we're going from the 17 diagnostic drugs that are presently used under 18 law to phase one, then in a period, I think it's 19 18 months -- about 14 months, we will move to 20 phase two. There are -- there is a reporting 21 system on the drugs that are being used. There 22 is a review committee here that will be 23 reviewing how this is working, so we have, as 7626 1 you are suggtesting here, monitoring the system, 2 who is using the drug, how often, and we have a 3 committee that will be reviewing what is taking 4 place in the marketplace. 5 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: All right, 6 Senator LaValle. I appreciate it very much. 7 I'm sort of very conflicted about 8 this because I never want to apply to others 9 what I wouldn't apply to myself and vice versa, 10 and that means that I know that if I needed what 11 we're about to do, I would seek out services, in 12 my opinion, of an ophthalmologist, and I still 13 believe that almost everybody in this chamber 14 would as well, but nonetheless, if the committee 15 and through the people that you work with, feel 16 that this will not put patients in jeopardy and, 17 in fact, it enlarges their options, and I guess 18 "options" means greater availability of 19 optometrists, and I also assume it also means 20 that their fees are more moderate as well and 21 since it is a window of 14 months or so you're 22 saying, where it will be monitored, is that what 23 you're indicating -- no -- sorry, she - 7627 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: I indicated 2 that in the first 14 months we would be in phase 3 one. Beyond the 14-month period, then people 4 would be moving into phase two, but there is a 5 monitoring of that process during phase one. 6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: All right. 7 Then I would hope, Senator LaValle, that perhaps 8 your committee and those that have some 9 oversight, I know I would be extremely 10 interested to hear as the days move ahead 11 whether or not our legislation that we're about 12 to pass will, in fact, guarn... will, in fact, 13 ensure the best -- the best of a health care 14 system that's so vital for all of us, and that's 15 the gift of sight. 16 Thank you, Senator. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 20 I want to assure our colleague, Senator 21 Markowitz, that Senator LaValle is meticulous in 22 the manner in which he attempts to deal with 23 turf wars involving the professions. 7628 1 He calls together all of the 2 active groups representing the professions that 3 seek to prevent another group of professionals 4 from treading on its turf or seeks to extend its 5 area of jurisdiction to a neighboring category. 6 I've often said to him that I 7 admire his tenacity in being willing to 8 undertake this kind of delicate negotiation. 9 There is in this legislation the assurance that 10 optometrists will have to have clinical training 11 and will have to pass examinations in order to 12 be able to use the therapeutic drugs for 13 treatment. There is also the assurance that it 14 will be monitored. 15 I have only one quesiton for the 16 sponsor -- I'm sorry, for Senator LaValle, who 17 is here as a surrogate for the sponsor. Senator 18 LaValle, I understand that there will be an 19 agreement in this legislation that people who 20 have completed their optometric training 21 subsequent to 1993 may be exempted from some of 22 the addtional requirements, is that correct? 23 SENATOR LAVALLE: The answer is 7629 1 yes, with exceptions. 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Now, that's 3 the exception I want to ask you about. What 4 about out-of-state optometric schools which are 5 normally, first of all, not under the 6 jurisdiction of the state Education Commissioner 7 and where inspection and review of their 8 practices may not be on-site? What happens 9 there? 10 SENATOR LAVALLE: This has to go 11 before a review committee to ensure that the 12 other states' clinical training and education 13 meets comparable standards to New York's. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Will the 15 review -- if the - 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- Senator 18 would yield. Will the review commission or the 19 review body make on-site inspection of the 20 clinical training that the out-of-state school 21 of optometry provides, because short of that, 22 there is a gap still in the legislation, and you 23 cannot accept a paper trail from a post office 7630 1 as commensurate with an on-site professional 2 inspection of the clinical training. 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, as you 4 know, there is no proscription for that. You 5 raise a very good point here that the review 6 commission, I believe, has to take as part of 7 their deliberations in actually doing reviews of 8 other facilities. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: I have found, 10 Senator LaValle, that sometimes even regional 11 accrediting boards are lax with regard to the 12 on-site inspection and surely, in our state to 13 rely upon a paper assurance without visitation 14 to that other out-of-state school of optometry 15 may leave a gap still in the state legislation. 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: There are - 17 what you should know, Senator, is that we're 18 talking about seven other facilities, and we're 19 talking about, I think, people that talk to one 20 another. What has happened with many of the 21 provisions, not with all, but with some of these 22 provisions, is that New York is moving closer to 23 many of the states. Probably a number of 41 7631 1 other states that do much of what we are 2 recommending in this -- in this legislation, so 3 I think that in a national way, I think the 4 schools talk to one another, and I think the 5 mere fact that you have brought this up today 6 and made it part of the record is something that 7 I believe people will take very strongly in 8 their evaluations of people who are coming in 9 from otoher states and other institutions. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator, I 11 intend to vote for this legislation because I 12 believe you acheived a remarkable consensus 13 already in your deliberations with the 14 ophthalmologists and the optometrists, but I 15 would urge you to continue to vote on this one 16 issue so that there's no possibility that a 17 school of quackery rather than a school of 18 optometry in another state will perhaps not 19 provide the kind of clinical training that you 20 or I would wish to see occurring. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Last Section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7632 1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 4, 4 Senators Farley, Kruger, Skelos and Stafford 5 recorded in the negative. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Connor. 7 The bill is passed. 8 Senator Connor. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you Mr. 10 President. 11 May I have unanimous consent to 12 be recorced in the affirmative on Calendar 13 Number 1551? Yeah, I was scratching my head, 14 and I think I got recorded in the negative. 15 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cook. 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 18 could I be recorded in the negative on 1564, 19 please? 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, so ordered. 22 SENATOR COOK: 1564. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nozzolio. 7633 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 2 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 3 the negative on 1564? 4 THE PRESIDENT: Without 5 objection, so ordered. 6 Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 8 could I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 9 the negative on 1579? 10 THE PRESIDENT: Without 11 objection, so ordered. 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 15 on Calendar Number 1473, please? 16 THE PRESIDENT: Without 17 objection, so ordered. 18 SENATOR NANULA: I would like to 19 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 20 negative on Calendar Number 1473. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Without 22 objection, so ordered. 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 7634 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Velella. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: 1564. I ask 3 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 4 on 1564, the Volker bill. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Without 6 objection, it's so ordered. 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1565, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 10 Bill Number 8822 - 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 12 THE SECRETARY: -- an act to 13 amend the State Finance Law. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 15 THE PRESIDENT: An explanation is 16 requested. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Lay it aside 18 temporarily, please. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1566, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Bill Number 12181, an act to amend the 7635 1 Education Law. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a second. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: I have read 6 the provisions of the bill - 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator Gold 8 asked you to wait a minute. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Okay. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, why 11 don't we just begin this. I know there are some 12 other people interested in this and we're trying 13 to round them up. 14 Leonard, you want to start? 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 17 I have read the provisions of the legislation. 18 I underswtand the value of this legislation to 19 certain school districts in terms of their 20 inability to maintain a register of 15,000 21 pupils and their desire to remain approximately 22 within their existing boundaries. I certainly 23 appreciate that and they include some of the 7636 1 finest community school districts in the city of 2 New York, where there has been excellence in 3 achievement in many areas in so doing in an 4 effort to stabilize those districts to prevent 5 the redrawing of their district boundaries which 6 is commendable for those districts, and you and 7 I have represented such districts for many 8 years. Nevertheless, I see certain omissions in 9 this legislation. 10 There is a requirement 11 authorizing the City Board to begin the process 12 of redrawing district boundaries. Every year 13 for decades, the City Board of Education has had 14 that power, and every year has been unable to 15 fulfill the responsibility. 16 Senator Padavan, would you yield 17 for a question? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Do you have 20 any assurance that the City Board at this time 21 would be able to fulfill the mandate of 22 redrawing the district boundary as required by 23 this piece of legislation? 7637 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: The assurances 2 that I can only give you, Senator, I think they 3 are in the statute. If we adopt it, it becomes 4 law. It says the board shall adopt boundaries 5 no later than February 1st, 1995 which is not 6 too far in the distant future, so we are 7 mandating by virtue of this enactment, that such 8 take place. We also provide a number of other 9 mechanisms as well as authorizations to 10 facilitate that. 11 For instance, this bill now 12 allows the addition of four more school 13 districts, actually five beyond the current 14 level, 32 which we have we now have. We can now 15 go to 37. If we eliminate the 15,000 which as 16 I'm sure you'll agree, all educators and 17 including the chancellor and others have said 18 has no value whatsoever, so what we have done 19 here is not only given them a fixed time frame 20 within which to operate, but we've also given 21 them the tools to do it with greater facility. 22 On that basis, I feel it should be done. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Notwith 7638 1 standing our legislation, we have enacted 2 legislation in the past, and each time we have 3 found that the Board of Education has not been 4 prepared to fulfill the mandate of the statute 5 but, in fact, sought waivers to be exempted from 6 those provisions. I will let that answer stand 7 because, Senator Padavan -- for the Board of 8 Education. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: We are now 10 giving a waiver here, Senator, unless you 11 consider January 1st and February 1st a waiver. 12 There's 30 days is all they're getting out of 13 this bill in terms of the waiver. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: No, I applied 15 the term "waiver" to the past. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: When year 18 after year, members of both houses exempted the 19 redrawing of district boundaries under the 20 existing statute. That's something the Board of 21 Education will either have to do or not do and 22 we will see whether they live up to that 23 requirement. 7639 1 One of the problems we've had 2 with school board operations in the city of New 3 York is that there has been a pitifully small 4 participation by voters and parent voters in the 5 process. Sometimes a tiny minority of the 6 eligible voters has participated in the school 7 board elections. Is there anything in this 8 legislation that addresses that issue? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, sir. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: If Senator 11 Padavan would yield. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would give 13 you a more complete answer. I would ask you to 14 remember that late last session we passed the 15 Marchi bill which had a number of reforms in it 16 including November elections. I will also say 17 to you that, while I'm not the Chairman of 18 Education or even on that committee, but I do 19 know, as a matter of fact, that there was 20 significant discussions between this house and 21 the other house relevant to accomplishing that 22 goal but such requests were rejected. So the 23 answer to your question is, no, there's nothing 7640 1 in this bill but, yes, we made an effort to do 2 that. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Notwith 4 standing the Marchi bill which had many other 5 changes in the law, there is still in this 6 house, in this session, a piece of legislation 7 that I have sponsored to move the date of the 8 school board elections to the November time 9 frame during the off year when there are no 10 elections for mayor or governor or president or 11 city council members or state legislators or 12 members of Congress, and to change the term to a 13 four-year term instead of the three-year term so 14 that there will not be that confusion. The last 15 time in 1992, four different elections were to 16 take place in a matter of months. School board 17 elections, presidential primaries, primaries for 18 the Legislature, for Congress and for other 19 offices as well as the general election in 20 November of that year, and that's the worst case 21 scenario, because the school board elections get 22 short shrift in terms of the attention given to 23 those contests, and I again ask the chairman of 7641 1 the Education Committee, why a bill, a simple 2 bill to provide for school board elections in 3 the off year, in November, has not been 4 presented together with this legislation as part 5 of the possible consideration by the 6 Legislature. It has not been reported by the - 7 by the Senate Education Committee, even though 8 it has none of the controversy that may have 9 impeded the ability of the Marchi bill to become 10 law. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 12 I believe that I was asked to yield as the 13 sponsor of this bill. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: I'm not asking 15 you to yield. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah, but now 17 are you asking now, Senator - 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: I will now ask 19 with the Chair's permission if the chairman of 20 the Education Committee would yield. 21 SENATOR COOK: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 Mr. President - 7642 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cook. 2 SENATOR COOK: As the Senator is 3 aware, whether or not there are offices on the 4 ballot, Election Day is Election Day and, 5 indeed, there are -- is never a time when there 6 are not some elections some place to fill 7 vacancies or to fill other purposes such as 8 voting on constitutional amendments, voting on 9 bond issues, et cetera. As the Senator is well 10 aware, there's a constitutional requirement that 11 an individual, in order to vote in a general 12 election, must be a citizen. 13 In the city of New York, in the 14 cause of school board elections, citizenship is 15 not a requirement in every case. Therefore, it 16 would be impossible to have the election at the 17 -- concurrently because you, in effect, have 18 two different voters, two different groups of 19 voters with two different requirements for 20 eligibility and, therefore, it's impossible to 21 hold the elections together. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 23 to continue. Technologically, that issue could 7643 1 be resolved in more sophisticated voting 2 machines which would cut off all non-school 3 board contests from the ability of a parent 4 voter to participate in an election. 5 Secondly, there is still the 6 ability to use paper ballots in the school board 7 portion even if we used machines in the 8 general. That issue has apparently not been 9 addressed here in order to increase the number 10 of participants in the school board elections. 11 What about the very cumbersome 12 proportional representation requirement which I 13 note also has not been addressed in this 14 legislation? I wonder if the sponsor of this 15 bill would consider that question? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'll 17 answer your question directly, but let me 18 preface it with this comment. 19 This is not a reform of the 20 governance of the Board of Education of the city 21 of New York. I was candid to explain to you 22 that we attempted during this session to achieve 23 agreement on that type of legislation. We were 7644 1 not successful, and I also told you that some of 2 the very reforms that you are in support of were 3 those that we sought to achieve. The Assembly 4 does not want to have November elections. There 5 are many other things that they do not want to 6 have. 7 However, we are dealing with the 8 redistricting bill, and if you wanted to spend 9 the time here to talk about everything else 10 related to the Board of Education and governance 11 issues, well, we'll be here a long period of 12 time, but I would simply suggest to you that 13 there is such an issue as relevance. I would 14 prefer that we stick with this bill. In answer 15 to your question, no, it's not in this bill. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 17 So this is a status quo bill 18 except for the maintenance of the fewer than 19 15,000 population in order to protect those 20 districts, and then it should be understood that 21 this is a status quo bill except for the 22 reduction of the 15,000 pupil population and 23 not - 7645 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, is 2 that a question? 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: No, I have not 4 asked you to yield. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: And not to be 7 confused with a more comprehensive review of the 8 problems associated with school board 9 elections. You want people to vote if there's 10 an election. You want people to vote in an 11 intelligent manner. I dare say the most 12 sophisticated members of this legislative body 13 and maybe the most sophisticated members of the 14 central Board of Education would have great 15 difficulty explaining to a lay audience how the 16 proportional representation system operates, how 17 the ballots are counted and how the election can 18 be skewed if you start continuing from some 19 ballots in some election districts rather than 20 starting from others, because when you reach 21 that threshold, with counting from one end, you 22 may get a different result than if you count 23 from the other end of the eligible voting 7646 1 districts, and you may get different candidates 2 selected. 3 It takes weeks and it is costly 4 to pursue this policy, and I say that not with 5 regard to criticism of this legislation. I say 6 it in order to explain that this is a status quo 7 bill which will not increase the number of 8 participants in the election, the number of 9 voters. It will not simplify the electoral 10 process, and it achieves only one thing. It 11 prevents certain very good districts from having 12 to redraw their boundaries, and if we 13 understand, that's all we're doing and we're 14 accomplishing nothing else's, I'm willing to 15 vote for the legislation in order that we don't 16 have to go through the routine of giving annual 17 waivers to the central Board of Education which 18 has consistently failed to redraw district 19 boundaries, and on that limited basis, let's 20 vote for this bill and hope for the best with 21 the rest. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Last section. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7647 1 Montgomery. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 3 you, Mr. President. 4 Would the sponsor yield for a 5 question? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: On this bill? 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator, 12 could you explain to me what is the -- what is 13 District 31? It says "District 31 shall remain 14 currently -- as currently configured." 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's the 16 chancellor's district. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. So we 18 don't bother him. All right. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Excuse me. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yeah. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: You said 31? 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: 31. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: That is Staten 7648 1 Island. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Oh, all 3 right. So under no circumstances will that one 4 change? 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Pardon me? 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Under no 7 circumstances? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Even if they 10 become too large, they won't have a chance to 11 maybe split into two? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, not without 13 some further action. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I see. All 15 right. Mr. President, if the sponsor would 16 yield. 17 Was there -- we did not set a 18 minimum at all; the bill doesn't set any 19 minimum? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Just a little 21 history. At one time the minimum was, I think 22 20,000, the minimum was reduced to 15,000, and 23 the Board of Education commissioned some studies 7649 1 and there were some other studies done as well, 2 which came to the firm conclusion that the size 3 of the district had no relevance to quality. 4 The relevance to quality related to the school, 5 and what was in it or perhaps what was not in 6 it, so that being the case, it makes no sense to 7 continue this arbitrary number. It had no 8 pedagogical significance, so we limited it. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 10 Padavan, with regard to the size of a district, 11 I know I hear you saying that it has no 12 pedagogical relevance. However, do we have any 13 sense that there is some relationship between 14 the number of children in a district and, in 15 addition, the concept of new developments? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: In some 18 areas of the city, there is there is a lot of 19 new development going on. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Absolutely. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: New families 22 coming in. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: We do have that 7650 1 recognition, Senator, and that's why in this 2 bill, we authorize five additional school 3 districts, go to 37. Currently the maximum - 4 well, there's 32. The actual law says 33, but 5 they've never gone beyond 32 previously, but we 6 now allow them to go to 37, for just the reason 7 you stated and, however, that determination 8 would be made by the central board with input 9 from the education community and, of course, the 10 counties and the school districts. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 12 Thank you. 13 Now, one more question. Senator, 14 I know that Senator Marchi's commission which we 15 fought very hard for, I guess even before I 16 came, Senator Marchi must have been working to 17 get that legislation done, and it was finally 18 done and then the commission was set up, and 19 then some years later we came out finally with a 20 report, and Senator Marchi's commission had 21 hearings around the city and parents 22 participated, and then we had a final report. 23 Now, it seems to me that with all 7651 1 of that investment in time and work and planning 2 that the commission put forth, this is all that 3 we come up with. Is there a reason why we don't 4 have more along the lines of what the commission 5 has recommended in its report, specifically and 6 particularly as it relates to the election 7 process, so that we can have a better 8 representation on the boards of the communities 9 and the children that are in the schools, and so 10 on, and so on? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, let me 12 repeat. You may not have been here. My 13 comments in regard to the previous speaker, the 14 previous member's questions, there was a 15 significant and very serious effort - 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: M-m h-m-m. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- to develop 18 certain reforms, including the two that you just 19 mentioned, in the November election, changing 20 the methodology which we use to determine who is 21 the winner, so-called proportional, and some 22 other issues. Agreement could not be reached on 23 that -- on that proposal. 7652 1 The Assembly, for whatever 2 reasons, they can perhaps explain themselves, do 3 not want to have a November election. It may 4 have something to do with the voter qualifica 5 tions and things of that sort, but that is a 6 fact. Now, I'm not going to speak for Senator 7 Marchi. His ability to speak to himself far 8 exceeds mine, but the fact remains, I did want 9 you to know that effort was undertaken, but that 10 notwithstanding, the redistricting issue stood 11 on its own by virtue of a mandate of January 1st 12 of 1995 which was already in the law, that was 13 becoming impossible to meet for many reasons 14 with regard to redistricting. 15 Lack of flexibility in the law, 16 didn't have the opportunity to make more 17 districts as you asked, were constrained by this 18 15,000 number which in some cases didn't make 19 any sense, things of that sort. So that puts us 20 in a position of having to do something in that 21 category, bracketing in that issue this session, 22 and that's why we have this bill. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 7653 1 Senator Padavan. 2 On the bill, Mr. President, 3 briefly. 4 I just wanted to say again, as I 5 said in the past, and will continue to raise in 6 this context, that we did have the commission. 7 I was very excited about it. I wrote about it 8 in my newsletters. I spoke about it at 9 meetings, PTA meetings and groups around the 10 city, with every hope and expectation that we 11 would -- that that commission would yield 12 something as it relates to that education system 13 in the city, and now here we are almost ten 14 years later, just still tinkering around with a 15 mandated approach to addressing the most 16 critical institution in our city, and that is 17 the Board of Education, and while I applaud 18 Senator Padavan's attempt to push it along at 19 least to address the immediate crisis, that is, 20 unfortunately, all that we've ever been able to 21 muster up enough political guts to do, is just 22 address one little crisis at a time, and it's 23 very disappointing because we have almost a 7654 1 million children whose lives totally depend on 2 and whose futures and the future of our city, 3 totally depend upon a system of education that 4 works for the citizens, especially the children 5 of New York City, and so, and unlike any other 6 area in state, most other areas in the state the 7 schools work for the children, but in New York 8 City, it does not seem to happen, and part of 9 the reason that it doesn't happen is because of 10 how we're doing this today. 11 So, Senator Padavan, I don't want 12 to single you out. It's not your fault but 13 collectively, it is our fault, and I hope that 14 we will be able to come forth with some of the 15 meaningful recommendations. We did not agree 16 with every single one. There is not consensus 17 of all of them. However, we all agree, I think, 18 that the Marchi commission recommendation was at 19 least an attempt to look at the system as a 20 system and begin to make the kinds of shifts and 21 changes that would be necessary for that system 22 to work better. 23 So I hope that we will be able to 7655 1 look forward to the Marchi commission 2 recommendations in a more full and complete 3 sense as it relates to education reform. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 7 President. I think we need to pass this bill 8 because there is a great deal of anxiety within 9 New York City among parents, among people in the 10 education field about effective reapportionment 11 that are now proceeding under the current law, 12 and I think that Senator Padavan's bill gives us 13 a reasonable way in which to come up with a 14 reapportionment without causing the great 15 dislocation that would happen if we had to 16 proceed under the current law. 17 But having said that, I think all 18 of us must feel a great sense of failure that 19 we've been unable to deal with the restructuring 20 of the New York City educational system. I 21 think there isn't a person here or in the City 22 of New York that doesn't agree that we need to 23 do something about it. 7656 1 Senator Marchi, I voted against 2 the establishment of your commission because, 3 frankly, I didn't feel that it was going to 4 result in anything, not that I doubted your 5 competence and your sincerity and your 6 motivation, but it just seemed to me that we 7 were just putting off the decision making, and 8 that was really going to have to be done by this 9 body and, of course, in the Assembly. I thought 10 that we should be able to address that through 11 our Education Committee, but I think that while 12 your commission unfortunately was not able to 13 pull together a consensus, I think it couldn't 14 have come through the Education Committees, 15 either. 16 I don't know how we ring out the 17 partisan politics and the petty politics out of 18 the restructuring of the City school system. I 19 was here as you were, Senator Marchi, and, 20 Senator Galiber, and there were many of us who 21 were here when we did the New York City 22 restructuring in 1969. 23 At that time, it was called 7657 1 decentralization. And I remember we were here 2 for ten days. There was only one bill on the 3 calendar. Every day we would come there would 4 be that one bill. And it was laid aside because 5 there wasn't agreement on it. Finally, we came 6 up with this compromise that I voted against 7 because I felt that this was not going to really 8 be workable. 9 Maybe there are some things we 10 could do that there is agreement on such as 11 taking away from the members of the school board 12 the power to appoint principals, getting rid of 13 the reapportionment. I am sorry that the 14 Assembly seems to be unwilling to go along with 15 changing the election date to November, which I 16 think makes sense. 17 But I've got another idea, maybe 18 we can proceed in that way. Just as Congress 19 found it impossible to deal with the matter of 20 base closings because it was so extremely 21 political and obviously involved such extremely 22 important local interests that you could never 23 reach a consensus, maybe we ought to set up a 7658 1 commission independent of the Legislature 2 without legislators on it, with experts to do 3 the restructuring and provide that unless 4 overridden by the vote of let's say two-thirds 5 of both the Senate and the Assembly that that 6 will become the governing system of the City of 7 New York educational structure. 8 It may be the only way we're 9 going to do it, and I realize people would be 10 loath to give up the power and to say, "Well, 11 that's really not a good way and why should 12 unelected people have the right to do this." 13 But that wouldn't be the case. We would have a 14 role in it. First of all, it would be done 15 pursuant to our legislation. Secondly, we would 16 have the right to overrule the recommendation of 17 the commission, although it would have to be by 18 a two-thirds vote. 19 It may be the only way that we're 20 going to cut through what otherwise is a 21 terrible paralysis which is causing so much harm 22 to the school children of the City of New York. 23 Let's move on this bill, but I hope that we 7659 1 would all dedicate ourselves to get out of the 2 rut that we have in dealing with the needs of 3 the school children of the City of New York. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 5 section. 6 Senator Galiber. I'm sorry. 7 SENATOR GALIBER: That's all 8 right. I'm supposed to be up at a jazz concert, 9 anyway, but I wish I was. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 Senator, it will be relatively brief because we 12 were kind enough to have an extensive dialogue 13 in committee on this particular piece of 14 legislation, but one or two questions. 15 Senator, has this piece of 16 legislation been approved by the UFT? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry? 18 SENATOR GALIBER: UFT, union. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Has it been 20 approved by the UFT? 21 SENATOR GALIBER: Are they in 22 favor of this piece of legislation? 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: In all candor, 7660 1 Senator, I have no memos from them specifically 2 on the bill either in approval or in 3 opposition. There may be. I don't have 4 anything. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: All right. 6 Fine. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think if they 8 were opposed to it I would probably know by now. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: The proposed 10 new districts that you make reference to. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: Could you tell 13 us, if not before -- I was out of the chamber. 14 I apologize for that -- how we would go about 15 qualifying for those additional districts? 16 More specifically, I have a 17 concern where the UFT did such a horrible thing 18 to us which they do from time to time in Bronx 19 County. We have an educational center in Co-op 20 City. That's a new district for me. They tried 21 to move me in the co-op and out into Westchester 22 last year and were successful. 23 And to my amazement, I found an 7661 1 education center there which was created with 2 Co-op City, and Co-op City is a large place, and 3 at that particular point it was so large that it 4 was advocated at that time that there would be a 5 separate school district, but the UFT was a bit 6 concerned about their power, as they usually 7 are, and they plugged this district into 11 and 8 created one of the over crowded conditions that 9 we have in Bronx County along with District 10. 10 I am concerned. I ask this 11 question because I'm concerned as to their power 12 and whether they would have the last word or a 13 word in regard to creating the additional 14 districts. 15 Senator Leichter was absolutely 16 right. We -- David Paterson -- not David, but 17 his dad, Basil Paterson, myself, after being 18 part of the negotiations voted against the bill 19 in 1969 because it was a horrible piece of 20 legislation, because it was a piece of 21 legislation that influence of the UFT was 22 apparent there and has been a lasting 23 influence. 7662 1 It did violence to our excellent 2 Marchi Commission. The Governor came out with 3 some excellent recommendations. I had a 4 minority report, but it was irrelevant whether 5 you agreed or not, but there has been some 6 leanings toward breaking up 110 Livingston 7 Street -- five borough concept. 8 Whether you agree or not, but 9 again UFT came into the picture. And, Senator, 10 perhaps you're absolutely right. You came 11 pretty close to it. Maybe we do need someone 12 other than the legislators to work it as 13 Congress does with salaries. If you don't 14 object, you automatically got the salary. 15 I had the experience and Senator 16 Marchi did also, with some excellent minds who 17 were not legislators on that commission that did 18 a fantastic job, submitted a great report, and 19 we've not - 20 (Whereupon, Senator Farley was in 21 the chair.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Galiber, I know that it's difficult to debate 7663 1 with somebody that's to your rear, but if you 2 could speak into the microphone. The 3 stenographer is having trouble. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Will you make 5 an exception, Mr. President, and transfer this 6 over. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We've 8 already done it. 9 SENATOR GALIBER: I thank you. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 11 think you asked me a question, and I want to 12 respond to it. 13 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes, I added a 14 bit more onto it, so perhaps you can elaborate a 15 bit more, also. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think your 17 question was, will the process mandated by this 18 bill allow the community that you discussed the 19 opportunity of advancing the creation of a 20 school district there. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: That's correct. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: And the answer 23 to your question is decidedly, definitely yes. 7664 1 There are several things mandated in this bill 2 that will help to accomplish that. Number 1, 3 the board is required to have hearings in the 4 borough, involving not only the community school 5 boards but providing input from civic 6 organizations, community groups, and so on. 7 Secondly, the advisory task force 8 which they have put in place is now put in 9 statute, so they now have a role to play and 10 will also be required to hold public hearings. 11 We prohibit their hearings by the way, and I say 12 this parenthetically, in July and August so that 13 they will hold the hearings when parents and 14 schools are functioning. 15 Beyond that, one final thing - 16 but even beyond that, organizations, groups, 17 civic, whatever, have the opportunity to 18 petition directly to the board of education, 19 even outside that rather expansive process. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, let me 21 ask you one other question, because all those 22 procedures I have very little faith in them. I 23 don't want to say I don't trust them, but I have 7665 1 very little faith in them because that long arm 2 of the UFT is still there; and in addition to 3 that long arm, we are asking them to go back to 4 a polluted condition, if you will, at 10 5 Livingston Street, where they will have a great 6 deal to say as to whether that new district is 7 formed or not. So I don't trust the system. 8 Let me ask you the question, 9 Senator. Is it possible for us to put in a 10 piece of legislation, a piece of legislation, 11 which would designate one of those three 12 vacancies in a particular area, whether it be 13 yours, mine, or someone else's in the five 14 boroughs of the City of New York? Can we do it 15 legislatively? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Actually, this 17 bill provides for 37, which would be five more 18 than we currently have. Yes, I understand your 19 question. 20 I presume a bill could be 21 introduced, but I certainly can't speak to its 22 fate. That, of course, would be legislative 23 mandate outside a process that we provide for. 7666 1 But could a bill be introduced? Yes. 2 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. Let me 3 ask you a more pointed question, because your 4 answer sort of leads me into other question. 5 Would you be opposed to or would you amend the 6 bill or would you suggest whatever means we have 7 at our disposal to indicate, clearly, that a 8 piece of legislation could be introduced? And I 9 know we can introduce all kinds of legislation 10 asking for a number of things, but to say "you 11 could be," "depending on," and I guess anybody 12 can introduce a piece of legislation. We need 13 only go through the list of bills that have been 14 introduced, and we can find that anybody can 15 introduce a piece of legislation on any subject 16 matter. 17 I want to know whether the intent 18 of this legislation, if you can tell me, 19 precludes -- let me put it that way - 20 precludes - 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, 22 this - 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Let me finish 7667 1 the question, Senator. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: -- precludes 4 the opportunity of a piece of legislation being 5 introduced to designate one of the five or six, 6 whatever the numbers are, vacancies that are 7 incurred under this piece of legislation? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: The legislation 9 doesn't preclude it, Senator. But on the other 10 hand I have to be perfectly honest with you - 11 SENATOR GALIBER: You always are. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- we've 13 outlined and statutized the process, expanded 14 that process, given wide opportunities for 15 individuals, groups, organizations, education 16 advocates, borough presidents. All these people 17 now have an opportunity of stepping forward and 18 saying we want to have a school district. I 19 think you said Co-op City. 20 Now, for to us then preempt that 21 process to say we, this body of 61 individuals, 22 can say with certainty that our judgment as to 23 where a new school district shall be created - 7668 1 just keep in mind there are potential for five 2 more school districts. We then would be in the 3 business of saying, well, we want one here and 4 we want one there and we want one there. 5 I don't think that intelligently 6 as a body -- you obviously are in the position 7 of making that judgment because you represent 8 these people. You know exactly what the problem 9 is, and you can make that judgment, but I don't 10 know as a body, both houses of the Legislature, 11 whether we would want to find ourselves in a 12 position of, in effect, redrawing school 13 districts in the City of New York. 14 SENATOR GALIBER: All right. Let 15 me ask you this question. I sense that some of 16 the drive behind this bill is based on 17 population. One of the things that is mentioned 18 in the legislation is that we had a criteria for 19 15,000 and we reduce the number or increase it, 20 but one of the drives here is saying that we 21 have to add more because some of them are 22 overcrowded. 23 And if that be the case, why is 7669 1 it that we can't pick a number. If you feel 2 comfortable with that -- not you personally but 3 if we would collectively feel comfortable and 4 say that areas, school areas which are not 5 represented directly with 25,000 or more, would 6 then be in a position to introduce a piece of 7 legislation by -- based on numbers. 8 Because, Senator, let me tell you 9 in the real world what is happening. Both of us 10 try to function most of the time in that real 11 world and rarely do we go out and fight those 12 windmills. The reason why -- Senator Montgomery 13 was absolutely right. She alluded to it. The 14 reason why the excellent work of the Marchi 15 Commission -- I say excellent not because I was 16 one of the commissioners -- has gone and is 17 being held in a hiatus stage is because the 18 power of the UFT. 19 When we voted on this piece of 20 legislation, you might say, Well, Senator, you 21 are a responsible person. How can you be 22 influenced by the UFT? How can you be 23 influenced by some outside forces? We had an 7670 1 excellent piece of legislation that was 2 suggested as a result of an excellent report. 3 That piece of legislation has not moved, and one 4 of the principal reasons for it not moving is 5 because of the power of the UFT. 6 And they are destroying our 7 education system. They are not concerned with 8 our youngsters. They are not concerned with 9 educating youngsters, especially in the urban 10 centers where it's sorely needed. Find a way to 11 do it outside the City of New York but not in 12 the City of New York. 13 If we had an opportunity -- and I 14 don't mean to minimize it. We had this 15 discussion in committee. This seems not very 16 much to be talking about when we find that 17 school-based management and decision making and 18 all those good things, whether it's the 19 Rochester or the Chicago experience, whichever 20 one you want to choose, all of it, we all agree 21 that this would be better for the youngsters in 22 our school system. We can't move it. We can't 23 move it. 7671 1 You have difficulty -- we stay 2 out of it. I'm sure you do because I don't want 3 to get involved with those school districts or 4 be on the board. You didn't have to write a 5 piece of legislation for me. I didn't want to 6 be on it before the piece of legislation 7 precluded it, but it's another level of 8 politics. 9 And to suggest that we have to go 10 through that maze -- not the bad things that are 11 happening in some of the counties -- just to go 12 through that procedure in order to see to it or 13 offer an opportunity for a particular district 14 to educate youngsters. This is not the 15 procedure. This is not it. 16 1969, as I said before, we voted 17 against it because, again, the UFT was there and 18 they didn't want to budge. And when they agreed 19 and signed off on the bill, we knew something 20 was wrong. We knew something was wrong, and 21 that's exactly why we voted against it. 22 So, Senator, I understand. You 23 and I don't differ. You've done a great deal in 7672 1 the area of education and are concerned mostly 2 about people in your community. And this piece 3 of legislation -- I can't say I'll vote against 4 it. I will only wish that there was some 5 mechanism with a view toward adding on criteria 6 which would not send us through the same maze 7 with the influence of the UFT and a number of 8 political layers which cause stumbling blocks to 9 the vehicle through which we can educate our 10 youngsters. 11 So, Mr. President, I thank you 12 for the opportunity. 13 Senator Padavan, thank you for 14 answering the question and for your candor. But 15 this piece of legislation, I vote no because it 16 doesn't come anywhere close to what we were 17 really all about as far as the Commission is 18 concerned. It's sad that the Marchi Commission 19 legislation we have been -- I think some two or 20 three years we've been hanging around and not 21 doing anything positive about it, and our 22 youngsters have to -- have been the primary 23 persons who have been hurt as a result of our 7673 1 inability to deal with adequate legislation to 2 educate youngsters in our state. 3 I vote no. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 Senator Marchi to explain his 12 vote. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President. 14 For -- Senator Galiber said a lot of things that 15 were wise, I think. We did have a good bill. 16 The circumstances surrounding the rainbow 17 curriculum, without going into merits and 18 without resurrecting a lot of debate that went 19 on in the public in the City of New York, 20 resulted in the collapse of the Fernandez' 21 chancellorship. 22 There is an effort now being made 23 by Mr. Costikyan to track to some extent with 7674 1 some of the latter day thinking that 2 materialized in a bill that we had last year and 3 approved by the Senate, well, at 7:00 o'clock in 4 the morning as a matter of fact on the 5 conclusion of the session. 6 And the problem has been trying 7 to establish -- and I made an attempt, repeated 8 attempt, to get a dialogue going with the 9 Assembly but to no avail, probably because we 10 were not in the fullness of time to reach a 11 decision after the argumentation that had gone 12 on after the rainbow curriculum and just the 13 sheer collapse of efforts being made by the 14 chancellor. 15 I had a bill, of course, on 16 Staten Island, the secession of Staten Island, 17 and there we have something that tracked with 18 some of the things that were said here today, 19 and the election takes place on a November 20 election, and I was intrigued by the concept 21 forwarded -- raised by Lani Guinier, which may 22 surprise a lot of people, and I have it in the 23 plan itself for the school system on Staten 7675 1 Island, and that provides for a cumulative 2 voting in a school election. That would 3 certainly reassure concerns on the presence of 4 minorities on a school board. 5 We have always been able to do 6 that even with proportional representation, but 7 this would be done directly by machine. There 8 are no machines now. There is no capability of 9 doing that. At the earliest, we will have one 10 more sophisticated machine about a year from now 11 for one Assembly district. It will take about 12 five years before a new system is available that 13 will be able to accommodate the sophisticated 14 concerns in reference to representation. 15 I believe that Senator Padavan is 16 trying to answer and meet an immediate problem 17 and that will not foreclose, certainly, some of 18 the considerations that have been raised here 19 today, but we are not obviously prepared to join 20 issue at this point and redraft a brand new 21 structural system for the entire educational 22 system at this point. 23 But I think that, really, the 7676 1 initiative undertaken by Senator Padavan should 2 be supported at this point until higher ground 3 can be scrambled to later on and there has been 4 more thinking and interchange between members of 5 this house and also with the elements in the 6 Assembly. 7 I am voting in the affirmative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. Nays 11 1. Senator Galiber recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 Senator Kuhl. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 16 President. I have been asked on behalf of the 17 Acting Majority Leader to make essentially an 18 announcement; that is, as we grow closer to the 19 end of our session for the summer and we do have 20 a lot of work to do, a lot of work to do. And 21 we're on a calendar now, and we've had 22 indications before that members who are carrying 23 the bills have not been in the chamber, so the 7677 1 bills have been laid side temporarily. We're 2 about ready to return to motions and resolutions 3 and have our first Rules report on essentially 4 an additional calendar, the first of many to 5 come; and so it is the request of the Acting 6 Majority Leader that all members who have bills 7 on the calendar be in their chair ready to 8 debate the bills when the bill is reached and 9 put aside whatever it is that they have going on 10 to carry on that debate; because if they are not 11 in their chairs at the time so we can conduct 12 our business in an orderly manner, we may not be 13 returning to this calendar. It is our intent to 14 return in regular order to do the business at 15 hand but not to bounce around. 16 At this time, I would also like 17 to return to motions and resolutions. It is my 18 understanding that there is a Rules Committee 19 report at the desk that I would like to have 20 read. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Reports 23 of standing committees. 7678 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I think in 5 view of what Senator Kuhl said, I would like to 6 alert the members on this side of the aisle, 7 with the exception of about six who have been 8 glued to their seat all day, that when these 9 bills come up if the member who is carrying the 10 bill is in the chamber, I have been advised by 11 Senator Kuhl and by Senator Present that my 12 ability to hold the bills may be limited; and in 13 view of the fact that everybody would like to 14 wind down, that seems to be sensible. 15 So I would encourage the members 16 of the Minority also, if you want to speak on a 17 bill or participate in the actual debate part, 18 you are going to have to be here because as much 19 as I sympathize with you and want to work for 20 you, my hands are strapped if the member who is 21 carrying the bill is in the chamber. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We're 23 going to move the stenographer for just a 7679 1 moment. 2 Senator Hoffmann, you have the 3 floor. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 5 President. I request unanimous consent to be 6 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1564. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 8 objection. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Secretary is ready with the Rules Report. 12 Please read it. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Tully. 16 SENATOR TULLY: My I have 17 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 18 on Calendar 1564, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1564, 20 Senator Tully will be in the negative. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino 22 from the Committee on Rules reports the 23 following bills directly for third reading: 7680 1 2172A, by Senator Dollinger, an 2 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 3 4628B, by Senator Velella, an act 4 to amend the General Municipal Law. 5 5222A, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 6 amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 7 5747, by Senator Ohrenstein, an 8 act to amend the Public Health Law. 9 6645B, by Senator Spano, Criminal 10 Procedure Law. 11 6703A, by Senator LaValle, an act 12 to amend the Tax Law. 13 6945B, by Senator Farley, Parks, 14 Recreation and Historic Preservation Law. 15 7307A, by Senator Nanula, 16 validating certain advances of funds by the City 17 of Niagara Falls. 18 7522, by Senator Nozzolio, 19 Retirement and Social Security Law. 20 7674, by Senator Saland, 21 Executive Law. 22 7957A, by Senator Holland, Social 23 Services Law. 7681 1 8137A, by Senator Daly, 2 Environmental Conservation Law. 3 8152A, by Senator Stafford, State 4 Finance Law. 5 8153A, by Senator Cook, Education 6 Law. 7 8257A, by Senator Trunzo, 8 Retirement and Social Security Law. 9 8304A, by Senator Daly, allowing 10 the city of Niagara Falls to provide optional 20 11 year retirement. 12 8317C, by Senator Padavan, amends 13 Chapter 420 of the Laws of 1991. 14 8336A, by Senator Daly, Public 15 Service Law. 16 8402A, by Senator Daly, General 17 Municipal Law. 18 8419A, by Senator Velella, City 19 of New York to discontinue and transfer certain 20 park land. 21 8430, by Senator Velella, 22 Insurance Law. 23 8491, by Senator Saland, Tax Law. 7682 1 8621A, by Senator Goodman, Real 2 Property Tax Law. 3 8629, by Senator Velella, an act 4 in relation to the lawful rents for certain 5 plots or parcels. 6 8644, by Senator DiCarlo, Vehicle 7 and Traffic Law. 8 8660, by Senator Libous, Vehicle 9 and Traffic Law. 10 8667A, by Senator Saland, 11 Insurance Law. 12 8747, by Senator Volker, Vehicle 13 and Traffic Law. 14 8752, by Senator Kuhl, 15 Transportation Law. 16 8754, by the Committee on Rules, 17 Local Finance Law. 18 8762A, by Senator Saland, Highway 19 Law. 20 8778, by Senator Pataki, amends 21 Chapter 169 of the Laws of 1994. 22 8798, by the Committee on Rules, 23 Administrative Code of the City of New York. 7683 1 8800, by the Committee on Rules, 2 Administrative Code of the City of New York. 3 8806, by Senator Johnson, an act 4 in relation limiting exemption under the Air 5 Pollution Control Act. 6 8808, by Senator Present, in 7 relation to Chapter 53 of the Laws of 1988. 8 8811, by Senator Tully, authorize 9 the extension of the statute of limitations. 10 8818, by Senator Hannon, Criminal 11 Procedure Law. 12 8824, by the Committee on Rules, 13 Public Authorities Law. 14 8827, by Senator DeFrancisco, 15 Chapter 53 of the Laws of 1994. 16 8830, by Senator Spano, Workers' 17 Compensation Law. 18 8836, by the Committee on Rules, 19 Real Property Tax Law. 20 8837, by Senator LaValle, 21 Education Law. 22 8845, by Senator Goodman, Real 23 Property Tax Law. 7684 1 8846, by Senator Rath, Social 2 Services Law. 3 8848, by the Committee on Rules, 4 State Finance Law. 5 8867, by Senator Nozzolio, 6 Election Law. 7 Assembly Bill Number 12135, by 8 the Assembly Committee on Rules, Petroleum 9 Overcharge Restitution Act. 10 424C, by Senator Stavisky, 11 authorize a qualified member of the New York 12 State and local employees retirement system. 13 487A, by Senator Paterson, 14 authorize the City of New York to reconvey 15 certain real property. 16 4713A, by Senator Montgomery, 17 authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its 18 interest in certain real property. 19 All bills reported directly for 20 third reading. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 22 bills are reported directly to third reading. 23 Senator Kuhl. 7685 1 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 2 President. Could we go to supplemental Calendar 3 Number 1, which has just been placed on 4 everybody's desk and call up out of order, 5 Calendar Number 1649. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Well, 7 could we do just a bit of housekeeping prior to 8 1649. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Certainly. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Thank 11 you. 12 SENATOR KUHL: Return to motions 13 and resolutions, certainly. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: He is 15 going to do some substitutions. 16 Secretary will read some 17 substitutions. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 11, 19 Senator Cook moves to discharge the Committee on 20 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 10299A and 21 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 22 666. 23 On page 15, Senator Present moves 7686 1 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 2 Assembly Bill Number 10267 and substitute it for 3 the identical Third Reading 871. 4 On page 17, Senator Lack moves to 5 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 6 Bill Number 11420 and substitute it for the 7 identical Third Reading 962. 8 On page 17, Senator Skelos moves 9 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 10 Assembly Bill Number 9409B and substitute it for 11 the identical Third Reading 967. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 13 Substitutions are ordered. 14 Senator Cook. 15 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I 16 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 6625, 17 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 18 desk. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Secretary will read it. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Cook, 22 Senate Bill Number 6625B, certain findings and 23 determinations with respect to a temporary 7687 1 advance of monies. 2 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. I 3 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 4 bill walls passed. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 7 (The Secretary called the roll on 8 reconsideration.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is before the house. 12 SENATOR COOK: Please restore the 13 bill to its place on the Third Reading Calendar 14 and I now offer the following amendments. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 16 Amendments are received. The bill will retain 17 its place. 18 SENATOR COOK: I now move to 19 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 20 Print 9488A and substitute it for my identical 21 bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Substitution is ordered. 7688 1 SENATOR COOK: The Senate Bill on 2 first passage was voted unanimously. I now move 3 that the substituted Assembly bill have its 4 third reading at this time. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Before 6 you read the last section, there is a home rule 7 message at the desk on this bill. So you can 8 now read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Kuhl, 1649? 18 SENATOR KUHL: 1649. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We have 20 a message at the desk. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1649, by 22 Senator Nozzolio, Senate Bill Number 8867, an 23 act to amend the Election Law and the Tax Law. 7689 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I need 2 a motion. 3 SENATOR KUHL: I'm informed there 4 is a message of necessity at the desk. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 6 is, sir. 7 SENATOR KUHL: I move we accept 8 the message. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 10 favor of accepting the message, please say aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Those opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The message is accepted. 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Withdraw the roll call. There has been an 23 explanation asked for by Senator Connor. 7690 1 Senator Nozzolio. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 We have before us today what has 5 been termed "motor voter." This legislation is 6 perhaps the most comprehensive Election Law 7 reform that the state has every seen. 8 Voter participation and voter 9 turnout have been on a steady decline in New 10 York and across the country over the last two 11 decades, and what this legislation does is 12 attempt to open the gateway of democracy to 13 millions of new voters in New York. 14 I hasten to add that the 15 legislation before us goes far beyond the 16 mandates of the National Voter Registration 17 Act. This bill will go into effect January 1, 18 1995, making New York one of the first states in 19 the country and I believe the largest state in 20 the nation to implement the National Voter 21 Registration Act. 22 The federal bill mandates that 23 the Department of Motor Vehicles, those offices 7691 1 providing public assistance and those providing 2 services with individuals of disability 3 designate -- be designated as voter registration 4 sites. 5 Over 10 million people annually 6 visit the Department of Motor Vehicles in this 7 state, Mr. President, and we believe this law 8 will provide them the opportunity to vote. 9 However, every student enrolled in SUNY and CUNY 10 will also be able to have a voter registration 11 form as part of their enrollment packet, as well 12 as a number of state agencies. 13 Mr. President. I would be glad 14 to entertain any questions from the ranking 15 member of this committee, the Elections 16 Committee, as well as any other member who may 17 have any questions. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Connor. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 21 President, and thank the Senator for yielding. 22 Just a couple of questions, and I 23 first want to congratulate the sponsor and all 7692 1 the people who worked very hard over the past 2 months to negotiate this legislation. I think 3 it will be truly a landmark opportunity for more 4 and more New Yorkers to participate in our 5 electoral politics. 6 Senator Nozzolio, as you pointed 7 out, this bill does provide that at SUNY and 8 CUNY registration forms will be given out, and I 9 note that it does not include language mandating 10 the schools to collect the registration forms or 11 otherwise assist in it, but what I would like to 12 make clear, am I not correct in saying there is 13 nothing in the law that would prevent the 14 administration at any branch of SUNY or CUNY 15 from establishing on their own a system for 16 assisting students to complete the forms to 17 register or collecting them and forwarding them 18 to the board of elections? There is nothing 19 that would prevent that; is that correct, 20 Senator? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's 22 correct, Senator. There was a decision, as you 23 know, not to make this a mandate, but there is 7693 1 nothing at all, we believe, to preclude this 2 practice from occurring. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you. And 4 if the Senator, Mr. President, would yield to 5 one further question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 7 you yield for another question? 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 11 will. 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Am I not correct 13 in looking at this bill that it repeals existing 14 provisions of law which prohibit state agency 15 personnel from advising or assisting applicants 16 in the completion of forms to register to vote, 17 and that we are also repealing the language that 18 requires that registration forms can only be 19 collected in locks boxes? Is that correct? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, that is 21 correct. 22 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. Thank you, Senator. 7694 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Cook. 6 SENATOR COOK: Will Senator 7 Nozzolio yield for a question, please? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Nozzolio will you yield? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly. 11 SENATOR COOK: In regard to the 12 registration forms at SUNY campuses, will the 13 forms be in blank, that is, forms that will be 14 returned to the home district of the 15 registrants, or will all those people be 16 registered in the community in which the college 17 is located? 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, the 19 form that will be presented to those at the 20 universities will be the regular, traditional 21 state board form in which an individual will 22 have to declare an address. If that address is 23 their home address or their address of origin 7695 1 that county will receive the registration form, 2 but it depends on where the student declares 3 their address. There is no intention that 4 students have declaration of addresses at the 5 university but, rather, where they have their 6 individual residence. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. Hold on. 9 Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President. I feel somewhat compelled to rise 12 because -- in deference to my colleague from 13 Monroe County. I know that we've had a number 14 of debates on bills involving Election Law 15 changes over the course of the last eighteen 16 months in which I've used terms like itsy-bitsy, 17 teeny-weeny. This is not itsy-bitsy, teeny 18 weeny. This is a huge step. 19 And I believe that your comment 20 that this bill will bring democracy to millions 21 of new voters in New York State is absolutely 22 accurate. I commend you and the work of this 23 committee in difficult negotiations with the 7696 1 Assembly. It's a good piece of work. It really 2 goes a long way; and my hope is that having made 3 this giant step, we'll continue to be on the 4 forefront of the states in this country that 5 push voter access to ballot, access to the 6 process of democracy, so that more and more 7 people will be a part of it. 8 I commend the Election Committee 9 and its chair for this excellent piece of work. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 1649 are 19 Senators Cook, DiCarlo, Johnson, Lack, LaValle, 20 Maltese and Trunzo. Ayes 53. Nays 7. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Regular order. 7697 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Regular 2 order. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1575, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin, 5 Assembly Bill 9205A, an act to amend the General 6 City Law, the Town Law, and the Village Law. 7 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 9 Explanation has been asked for by Senator 10 Connor. 11 Senator Padavan. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: The explanation 13 was requested, I believe. This bill will allow 14 local governments do adopt ordinances or local 15 laws dealing with the issue of loitering 16 consistent with the requirements as laid down in 17 Court of Appeals decisions on this subject. 18 Such loitering laws are restricted by statute in 19 this bill under very narrow circumstances and 20 are so stated in three different parts of the 21 bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 7698 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Excuse me. Can 2 we have just a second. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 4 right. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Connor. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. Will Senator Padavan yield for a 10 question? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 13 Senator. I just want to make sure, as you know, 14 historically, anti-loitering statutes were just 15 a license for a police officer to arrest anybody 16 they didn't like the looks of. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Right. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Is the intent of 19 this bill to limit the statutes adopted by a 20 locality to situations where the person is 21 clearly or is, in effect, loitering for the 22 purposes of an illegal activity. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, and it's 7699 1 very specific, if I may read it. Again, as I 2 said, earlier, the same sentence is used in 3 three different parts of the bill, line 5 and 6 4 and then 17 and 18 on the front page, and I 5 think elsewhere, as well. But the fact remains, 6 it says very specifically that "loitering 7 prohibited... in punishing loitering... and 8 prowling in a place at a time... where lawful 9 activity... not usual for lawful activity under 10 circumstances that warrant alarm or immediate 11 concern for safety of persons or property in the 12 vicinity." 13 So in any event it's very 14 specific in terms of how you could develop a 15 local law. And, again, as I said earlier, 16 relates very directly to two Court of Appeals 17 decisions that laid down the guidelines for such 18 a statute. 19 SENATOR CONNOR: Okay. Thank 20 you, Senator. Last section. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7700 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1577, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 10 7961A, an act to amend the Election Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1585, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 8726, 23 an act to amend the Transportation. 7701 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 9 on. Withdraw the roll call. Senator Connor has 10 asked for an explanation, Senator Levy. 11 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Connor, 12 what this bill does is to require state projects 13 that are five million dollars or in excess to 14 have the State Department of Transportation take 15 a look at whether night time construction is 16 feasible to do those projects. 17 We can all be justifiably proud 18 of the $21 billion transportation financing plan 19 that we put into place a year ago, a year ago 20 April, and really finalized with the MOU last 21 December. That piece of legislation and the 22 carryover highway and bridge projects on a state 23 level from the Action Bond Issue, particularly 7702 1 in the City of New York and places like Long 2 Island and the other suburban counties, that are 3 now having a tremendous amount of construction 4 that's ongoing, it really has -- in the City and 5 in the suburban areas and it's really not 6 limited to downstate -- but because of the 7 magnitude of the construction, it has generated 8 major congestion. 9 All this bill does is to say to 10 DOT, on projects over $5 million take a look at 11 them and, if you can, do them at night. And it, 12 furthermore, says -- says to DOT, make your 13 determination open to the public if they want to 14 take a look at what was the basis for this 15 action. 16 A number of years ago before we 17 got into a program of this magnitude, we passed 18 legislation like this in the Senate. My 19 recollection is that maybe seven or eight years 20 ago before we had an explosion in construction 21 such as we have today, it passed both houses and 22 was vetoed by the Governor. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7703 1 Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes. Thank you, 3 Mr. President. On the bill just very briefly. 4 I recollect a project on the BQE 5 in my district some 14 or 15 years ago where, 6 because of the disruption that would be caused, 7 we actually worked it out and we had to go to - 8 I guess it was an Interstate. There was some 9 federal money involved. The then Congressman 10 was very helpful and we actually got the work 11 done at night, and it worked very, very well in 12 that situation, and it minimized the impact on 13 surrounding communities. 14 Since then, there were a number 15 of other projects in the same area, and we 16 haven't received a very sympathetic ear when one 17 of the things we suggest is, "Do it at night." 18 I don't know what's changed in 15 years. 19 But I do want to congratulate 20 Senator Levy for bringing this out. I recall a 21 few weeks ago, I think this was a key element in 22 a gubernatorial candidates platform. I think 23 Howard Stern, besides his other two or three 7704 1 issues that he wanted to do this. So I guess 2 maybe we can all take credit. You know, typical 3 third party, as we know the history of third 4 parties or the major parties in our system tend 5 to co-op their ideas. So I guess this is the 6 beginning of the Democrats and the Republicans 7 co-opting one of Howard Stern's ideas. 8 SENATOR GALIBER: Senator, would 9 you yield for a question, just one question? 10 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly, 11 Senator. 12 SENATOR GALIBER: You know, I 13 think it's a great idea. You come in in the 14 morning to try and get downtown, and all of a 15 sudden they put a bridge up, put up some 16 construction. You got to bear to the right, 17 bear to the left. Excellent. 18 But do you have any idea how much 19 this is going to cost? Because now we run into 20 the unions. You're talking about night pay, 21 double pay, triple pay, depending on what's 22 negotiated. So is it conceivable -- and I don't 23 want to put one of those dramatic multipliers in 7705 1 there, but would you agree that in order -- if 2 this legislation is passed -- on the one hand I 3 hope it is. On the other hand, I would like to 4 know what your guesstimate would be or estimate 5 would be. What would be the cost of this above 6 what it would normally cost, taking into 7 consideration the unions and night work. 8 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Galiber 9 let me answer to comments by Senator Connor and 10 then also respond to you. 11 With all due respect to Howard 12 Stern, this legislation was something that we 13 initiated before Howard Stern started to 14 articulate, so it was legislation that had been 15 passed here. Senator Galiber, all this bill 16 does is require DOT to make an evaluation. Then 17 once they make an evaluation and decide to do 18 night time construction, they got to fit it 19 within their budget. 20 SENATOR GALIBER: That's not 21 answering the question. Maybe you can't answer 22 it because there's too many -- you know, there's 23 so many variables involved. Would you agree, 7706 1 Senator -- let me put it to you another way. 2 Would you agree -- you have been head of 3 transportation for a number of years, and doing 4 an excellent job. I'm not massaging you, but 5 you really have, so I won't disturb -- I don't 6 want to hold up $92 billion because of a reason, 7 but that was a momentary thing. 8 The fact of the matter is with 9 your experience in transportation and knowing 10 some of the costs, isn't it a fact that if we 11 start doing this work at night that it's going 12 to be a substantial amount of additional cost on 13 the contract? 14 SENATOR LEVY: All right. 15 Senator, before introducing this bill again, I 16 spoke to union officials in the construction 17 field. Due to the fact that there is little - 18 underscored little -- private sector 19 construction as opposed to highway and bridge 20 construction, the union officials indicated to 21 me that as an incentive to do this type of work, 22 they would be very, very flexible as it relates 23 to overtime and premium pay. 7707 1 Based upon those conversations, I 2 can not say, Senator Galiber that there would be 3 an additional costs involved. 4 Let me additionally say, what is 5 going on in this field is innovative bidding and 6 innovative awards to do construction projects. 7 Where like in California after the earthquake, 8 in the state of California, they were giving 9 bonuses on contracts when contracts were 10 completed before they were supposed to be 11 scheduled, and conversely penalizing. We are 12 starting to use these type of bidding procedures 13 in the State of New York, and they are being 14 tried in the New York City Metropolitan area. 15 So I don't think we can -- I don't think that we 16 can say on a given project whether it would cost 17 more or cost less. All I can tell you is what 18 the union officials indicated to me, that they 19 were willing -- they were willing to even scale 20 back -- scale back the different premium pay, 21 hourly pay that they received because of the 22 need for the work. 23 SENATOR GALIBER: Yes. I don't 7708 1 want to belabor the point. Senator, that's a 2 great answer. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 4 Galiber. 5 SENATOR GALIBER: That's a great 6 answer, but it doesn't really answer, and you 7 know it as well as I do, that the unions are 8 going to come in and they're going to -- because 9 they are primarily concerned about their 10 workers. They are going to charge for the 11 insurance; they are going to charge for the 12 overtime; they are going to charge for the night 13 work. And you know it as well as I do. 14 This -- whatever these gentlemen 15 agreements, and they're gentlemen -- they just 16 don't honor handshakes and gentlemen's 17 agreements. This is going to cost the taxpayer 18 an awful lot of money, but I would like to see 19 it happen, but I'm just disagreeing with you as 20 to this good will all of a sudden with the 21 unions. And what they'll say, "We'll take 22 advantage -- we'll -- we'll consider this factor 23 and another factor, and we'll be gentlemen about 7709 1 it. We're not going to ask for the $2,000 and 2 the $3,000 with the fringes and the union costs 3 and the pension funds." 4 It costs them now maybe $2,000 5 for each worker out there. Can you imagine what 6 it's going to cost to do this work at night. 7 And I'm not arguing. I'd love to see it passed, 8 work out some kind of way. The only thing I'm 9 arguing with you about -- not arguing. I'll 10 find a softer word -- disagreeing with you is 11 that your answer as to this agreement that you 12 have with the the union as relates to cost - 13 not you personally, but this understanding that 14 you have with the union is pure nonsense. They 15 don't know what the handshakes mean. They don't 16 know what one's word represents. They have one 17 object in mind, one thrust, and that is to 18 protect those union persons, and they are not 19 going to have them out there working at 20 different wages other than the night wages. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7710 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Kuhl. 11 SENATOR KUHL: Could we have the 12 Secretary call up Calendar Number 1562. I 13 believe there is a message at the desk. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 15 there is. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1562, by Senator Cook, Senate Bill Number 8815, 18 an act to amend Chapter 737 of the Laws of 1989. 19 SENATOR KUHL: I move we accept 20 the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 22 favor of accepting the message, please say aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 7711 1 Those opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The message is accepted. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Kuhl. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 15 Would you now call up 486, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 486. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 486, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill 1245A, an act 19 to amend the Public Authorities Law. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 7712 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Explanation has been asked for. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, I will be 4 happy to answer any questions. This is a very 5 comprehensive bill. We have passed this bill 6 every year in recent history aimed at reform of 7 the MTA. It has some of the concepts that you 8 have been interested in, Senator Leichter. I 9 wish I could tell you that the Assembly was 10 going to pass it this year as opposed to not 11 having passed it in the past. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Senator 13 Levy, if you would be so good as to yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Levy, do you yield? 16 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: My question, 18 in part, is prompted just because of the flurry 19 of bills and all that we're going through. It's 20 hard to keep track. Is this the same bill that 21 we passed last year? 22 SENATOR LEVY: It is 23 substantially the same bill possibly with some 7713 1 changes in dates and maybe a little fine tuning. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 3 Other than changes in dates - 4 SENATOR LEVY: There really is 5 nothing substantively added to this bill. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: And some of 7 the changes, and I remember we talked about it, 8 you were very gracious. You asked my opinion on 9 some of these things and so on. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Some of your 11 concerns about hearings before you eliminate and 12 diminish service and so on. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Good. 14 That's really what I wanted to know. Thank 15 you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7714 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 5 Kuhl. 6 SENATOR KUHL: Would you call up 7 Calendar Number 607, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 607, 9 the Secretary will read it. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 607, by Member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly 12 Bill Number 748C, an act to amend the Vehicle 13 and Traffic Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 15 is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 16 You can read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Onorato, are you voting? Negatives raise your 7715 1 hands. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 607 are Senators 4 Cook, DeFrancisco, DiCarlo, Farley, Hoffmann, 5 Kuhl, Libous, Nanula, Present, Seward, Stafford 6 and Wright. Ayes 48. Nays - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Sears is also in the negative. 9 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 10 Sears in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Nozzolio. 13 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 14 Nozzolio. Also Senator Larkin in the negative. 15 Ayes 45. Nays 15. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: I think it's 19 come a time when we must stand at ease briefly 20 unless you've got some housekeeping. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Are 22 there any motions or resolutions on the floor. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 7716 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Spano. 3 SENATOR SPANO: I would like 4 unanimous consent -- I'd like the record to 5 indicate I'm reported in -- recorded in the 6 negative on Calendar 1579. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1579, 8 Senator Spano is in the negative. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: My I be 11 recorded in the negative on 607, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 607, 13 Senator Holland is in the negative. 14 No other motions or -- on the 15 floor? 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Present, we have nothing 18 in the line of housekeeping. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: At ease for a 20 few minutes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We will 22 stand at ease for a few moments. 23 Senator Pataki, and then Senator 7717 1 Stachowski. 2 SENATOR PATAKI: Mr. President. 3 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar 607. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 6 objection. 7 Senator Stachowski. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 9 President. I request unanimous consent to be 10 recorded in the negative on Calendar 607. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 12 objection. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would also 18 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 19 negative on 607. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 21 objection. 22 Senator Jones. 23 SENATOR JONES: Same. 7718 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Jones also in the negative on 607. 3 Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I request 5 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 6 on 1564. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1564, 8 Senator DeFrancisco will be in the negative. 9 Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 11 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 607, Senate 71B. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 14 objection. 15 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Galiber. 18 SENATOR GALIBER: I think so. 19 Mr. President. I ask for unanimous consent to 20 be recorded in the negative on 1575. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1575, 22 Senator Galiber will be in the negative. 23 Senator Libous. 7719 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Can we go to 2 motions and resolutions? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, we 4 can. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 6 On behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish to call up 7 his bill, Senate Print 8151A, recalled from the 8 Assembly, which is now at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 10 Secretary will read it. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Skelos, Senate Bill Number 8151B, an act 13 relating to the Ocean Side Library. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: It's a 15 little noisy in here. We want to hear Senator 16 Libous' motion. 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 19 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 20 bill was passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 7720 1 reconsideration.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is before the house. 5 Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 7 I now offer the following amendments. And I 8 move to discharge from the Committee on Rules 9 Assembly Print Number 11970A and substitute it 10 for Senator Skelos' identical bill. The Senate 11 bill on first passage was voted unanimously, and 12 I now move that the substituted Assembly bill 13 have its third reading at this time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7721 1 bill is passed. 2 Senator Wright. 3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 4 I request that the sponsor star be removed from 5 Calendar Number 1311, Senate Print 7942A. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Star is 7 removed. 8 Senator Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 10 President. If there is no objection, I ask that 11 I be recorded in the negative on Calendars 12 Number 1574 and 1575. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1574 14 and 1575, Senator Paterson will be in the 15 negative. 16 Senator Rath. 17 SENATOR RATH: I would like to be 18 recorded in the negative on 607. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Daly. 21 SENATOR DALY: Mr. President. 22 May I be voted in the negative on Calendar 23 Number 607, Print Number A.748C. 7722 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Daly will be in the negative on 607. 3 (Whereupon, at 5:30 p.m., Senate 4 was at ease.) 5 (Whereupon, at 5:55 p.m., Senate 6 reconvened.) 7 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: May we return to 11 motions and resolutions? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 13 certainly may. Go ahead. 14 SENATOR KUHL: I wish to call up 15 my bill, Senate Print 6109B, recalled from the 16 Assembly, which is now at the desk. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 Secretary will read it. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Kuhl, 20 Senate Bill Number 6109B, an act to amend the 21 General Business Law and the Executive Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Kuhl. 7723 1 SENATOR KUHL: I now move to 2 reconsider the vote by which this bill passed. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll on reconsideration. 5 (The Secretary called the roll on 6 reconsideration.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 9 bill is before the house. 10 Senator Kuhl. 11 SENATOR KUHL: I offer up the 12 following amendments. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Amendments received. The bill will retain its 15 place. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 18 Can we go to Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 19 Noncontroversial. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Supplemental Calendar Number 1, 22 noncontroversial. 23 Secretary will read, page 1. 7724 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1602. Senator Dollinger moves to discharge the 3 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 4 12003 and substitute it for the identical 5 Calendar Number 1602, an act to amend the 6 Vehicle and Traffic Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. Oh, there is a home rule - 9 I'm sorry. 10 Substitution is ordered. There 11 is also a home rule request at the desk. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1603, by Senator Velella. Senator Velella moves 23 to discharge the Committee on Rules from 7725 1 Assembly Bill Number 7668B and substitute it for 2 the identical Calendar Number 1603, an act to 3 amend the General Municipal Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 5 Substitution is ordered. There is a home rule 6 request at the desk. 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1604, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 5222A, 18 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Lay the bill 20 aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 22 that bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7726 1 1605. Senator Ohrenstein moves to discharge the 2 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 3 11562 and substitute it for the identical Third 4 Reading 1605, an act to amend the Public Health 5 Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Substitution - 8 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Can we lay this 12 bill aside, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I've got a 16 lot of problems with the sponsor. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We'll 18 substitute it first. Substitution is ordered. 19 Lay the bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1606. Senator Spano moves to discharge the 22 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 23 10184A and substitute it for the identical Third 7727 1 Reading 1606, Criminal Procedure Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Substitution ordered. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 6 aside. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. With your 11 indulgence, if we can go back to 1605. I 12 understand the sponsor will accept passage 13 without debate. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1605, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 16 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11562, 17 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 7728 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1607, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 7 6703A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1608. Senator Farley moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 10073B and substitute it for the identical Third 22 Reading 1608, Parks, Recreation and Historic 23 Preservation Law. 7729 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Substitution is ordered. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: 1609. Senator 13 Nanula moves to discharge the Committee on Rules 14 from Assembly Bill Number 8530A and substitute 15 it for the identical Third Reading 1609. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 17 Substitution is ordered. There is a home rule 18 request at the desk. 19 You can read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 7730 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1610. Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the 7 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8 10645 and substitute it for the identical 9 Calendar Number 1610. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Substitution is ordered. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1611. Senator Saland moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7731 1 10925 and substitute it for the identical Third 2 Reading 1611. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 4 Substitution is ordered. 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1612, by Senator Holland, Senate Bill Number 16 7957A, an act to amend the Social Services Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7732 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1613, by Member of the Assembly DiNapoli, 6 Assembly Bill Number 9639B, Environmental 7 Conservation Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1614. Senator Stafford moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 11461A and substitute it for the identical Third 22 Reading 1614. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7733 1 Substitution is ordered. 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 10 bill is passed. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Reconsider the 12 vote and lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1615. Senator Cook moves to discharge the 22 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 23 11987A and substitute it for the identical 7734 1 Calendar Number 1615. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Substitution is ordered. Lay that bill aside 4 because it's high. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1616. Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the 7 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8 10855A and substitute it for the identical Third 9 Reading 1616. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 11 Substitution is ordered. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1617, by Senator Daly. Senator Daly moves to 23 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 7735 1 Bill Number 11550A and substitute it for the 2 identical Calendar Number 1617. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 4 is a home rule request at the desk. 5 Substitution is ordered. 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1618. Senator Padavan moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 18 11902 and substitute it for the identical 19 Calendar Number 1618. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7736 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1619. Senator Daly moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 6207A and substitute it for the identical 12 Calendar Number 1619. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Substitution is ordered. 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 7737 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1620, by Senator Daly, Senate Bill Number 8402A, 3 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1621. Senator Velella moves to discharge the 16 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 17 11957A and substitute it for the identical 18 Calendar Number 1621. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Substitution is ordered. There is also a home 21 rule message at the desk. 22 You can read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7738 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1622. Senator Velella moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 11427A and consitutes it for the identical 12 Calendar Number 1622. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 14 Substitution is ordered. 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 23 bill is passed. 7739 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. Nays 2 1. Senator Present recorded in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 4 bill is still passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1623, by Senator Saland, Senate Bill Number 7 8491, an act to amend the Tax Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 9 is a local fiscal impact note here at the desk. 10 You can read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1624. Senator Goodman moves to discharge the 21 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 22 12091 and substitute it for the identical 23 Calendar Number 1624. 7740 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Substitution ordered. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1625. Senator Velella moves to discharge the 14 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 15 10916, and substitute it for the identical 16 Calendar Number 1625. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 18 Substitution is ordered. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 21 that bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 23 1626, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number 7741 1 8644, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 2 Law. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1627. Senator Libous moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 11496A and substitute it for the identical 10 Calendar Number 1627. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution is ordered. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1630, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 8752, 7742 1 an act to amend the Transportation Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. Nays 10 1. Senator Levy recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1631. Senator Marino moves to discharge the 15 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 16 12081 and substitute it for the identical 17 Calendar Number 1631. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 19 Substitution ordered. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7743 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1632. Senator Saland moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 11893A and substitute it for the identical 10 Calendar Number 1632. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Substitution is ordered. Lay it aside. 13 The bill is high. We can't pass 14 it. The substitution was ordered. But the bill 15 is high. We have to lay it aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1633. Senatorial Pataki moves to discharge the 18 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 19 12095 and substitute it for the identical 20 Calendar Number 1633. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 22 Substitution is ordered. 23 Read the last section. 7744 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1634. Senator Marino moves to discharge the 11 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 12 12123 and substitute it for the identical 13 Calendar Number 1634. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 15 Substitution is ordered. 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7745 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1635. Senator Marino moves to discharge the 4 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 5 12124 and substitute it for the identical 6 Calendar Number 1635. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Substitution is ordered. 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1636, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 20 8806, in relation to limiting exemption under 21 the Air Pollution Control Act. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 7746 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1637. Senator Present moves to discharge the 4 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 5 12139 and substitute it for the identical Third 6 Reading 1637. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 8 Substitution is ordered. 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. Nays 16 1. Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1638. Senator Tully moves to discharge the 21 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 22 12055 and substitute it for the identical 23 Calendar Number 1638. 7747 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 2 Substitution is ordered. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1639, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 14 8818, an act to amend the Penal Law. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 17 that bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1640, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Bill 20 Number 8824, an act to amend the Public 21 Authorities Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 7748 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1642, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Bill Number 11 8827, amends Chapter 53 of the Laws of 1994. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 DeFrancisco has a local fiscal impact note at 14 the desk. 15 You can read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 7749 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1643. Senator Spano moves to discharge the 3 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 4 12198 and substitute it for the identical 5 Calendar Number 1643. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Substitution is ordered. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1644, by the Committee on Rules. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1645, by Senator LaValle. 7750 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 3 aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1646, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 6 8845, Real Property Tax Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1647, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 8846, 19 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7751 1 1648. Senator Marino moves to discharge the 2 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 3 10889 and substitute it for the identical 4 Calendar Number 1648. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Substitution is ordered. 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1650, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 18 Assembly Bill Number 12135, an act to enact the 19 Petroleum Overcharge Restitution Act of 1994. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 21 Substitution ordered -- no substitution on that 22 one. You can read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7752 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1651, by Senator Stavisky. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay the 11 bill aside. There is no home rule message. 12 That's why we're laying it aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1652. Senator Paterson moves to discharge the 15 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 16 4217A and substitute it for the identical 17 Calendar Number 1652. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 19 Paterson has a home rule message at the desk. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7753 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1653, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Bill Number 8 4713A, authorizing the City of New York to 9 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You're 15 right. Thank you very much. Apparently there 16 is a home rule message at the desk. 17 Now you can read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7754 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Present, that's the first 5 time through. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: We will take 7 the controversial calendar, Supplemental 8 Calendar Number 1. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: We need 10 to reconsider the vote on 1646, Senator Present, 11 before we do that if we may. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 14 the roll on reconsideration on Senator Goodman's 15 bill, 1646. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 20 that bill aside. 21 Controversial. Page 1. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1604, by Senator Kuhl. 7755 1 SENATOR KUHL: Lay the bill 2 aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 4 aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1606, substituted earlier, by Member of the 7 Assembly Meeks, Assembly Bill Number 10184A, 8 Criminal Procedure Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on a minute. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 11 set. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. Nays 21 1. Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 7756 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1614, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 3 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11461A 4 State Finance Law and the Public Authorities 5 Law. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation, 7 please. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1625, substituted earlier. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1625. 14 1615 is high, Senator Gold, so we're on 1625. 15 THE SECRETARY: 1625, substituted 16 earlier, by Member of the Assembly Kaufman, 17 Assembly Bill Number 10916, in relation to 18 lawful rents for certain plots or parcels 19 rented. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7757 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1626, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Bill Number 10 8644, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 11 Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7758 1 DiCarlo. 2 SENATOR DiCARLO: To explain my 3 vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill has already passed. Go ahead. 6 Senator DiCarlo. 7 SENATOR DiCARLO: If I might. 8 This bill is a bill that I'm very pleased to be 9 able to bring out, and I just want to say a 10 couple of things on it. This bill basically is 11 the toughest unlicensed, unregistered drunk 12 driving bill in the nation, and some people have 13 asked me if it's going to pass the Assembly. It 14 is in the Assembly, and I don't know whether 15 it's going to pass the Assembly, and I would 16 hope that it would. 17 I do this, and I pass this bill 18 in memory of a number of people, constituents of 19 mine, who many have read about in the last few 20 months. There was a family in my district that 21 was slaughtered by an unregistered, unlicensed 22 driver -- Kathy Vaccarello, 43; Maria 23 Vaccarello, 19; Consetta Vaccarello, 17, two 7759 1 months ago; and just four weeks ago Donna 2 Blanchard, 43, and Michelle Blanchard, 6 years 3 old, were killed. And they are all constituents 4 of mine. 5 This morning, for those of you 6 who don't know, on the AP wire, a car driven by 7 a man whose license has been revoked plowed into 8 a crowded Brooklyn sidewalk Saturday morning 9 killing one man and injuring two other 10 pedestrians. 11 The carnage that's going on, 12 especially in the City of New York has gotten to 13 a state that something has to be done, and I 14 think this bill does it. 15 So on behalf of the families who 16 have lost their loved ones, I pass this bill and 17 I thank the Mayor of the City of New York for 18 his support and guidance in this legislation, 19 also. 20 SENATOR GOLD: How do you vote? 21 SENATOR DiCARLO: I vote yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 23 Secretary will read. 7760 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1636, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 3 8806, in relation to limiting exemption under 4 the Air Pollution Control Act. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 7 Explanation has been asked for. 8 Senator Johnson. 9 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 10 The State of New York has been required by the 11 federal EPA to develop regulations to control 12 emissions of volatile organ compounds from some 13 sources which are not currently controled. 14 Right now, they are concentrating on the 15 bakeries. 16 This bill is dealing with the 17 bakeries. Only bakeries -- and there is a 18 limit, I say, of an amount of one-tenth of one 19 percent of all volitile organic compound 20 emissions in this state come from bakeries, and 21 80 percent of those are exempted, all the small 22 bakeries and bagel shops and so on. 23 The larger bakeries have to go 7761 1 through a procedure to evaluate, called 2 reasonably available control technology. What 3 the DEC has said is that if it costs more than 4 $5,000 a ton, after an analysis to exempt some 5 of these ovens, they will be exempted because 6 there's a cost benefit analysis included in the 7 regulations. 8 We know that a limit of 15 tons 9 per year, anything below that, will be exempted 10 automatically after this procedure has gone 11 through. What we're trying to do here is go 12 right ahead and say if they're under 15 tons per 13 year, they shall not have to go through the one 14 or two years of testing and the expenses 15 involved only to get an exemption ultimately 16 anyhow from the DEC. 17 And so what this is going to do 18 really is exempt the small ovens in advance, and 19 the large ovens which emit over that limit and 20 where it will be cost effective to retrofit 21 them, they will be retrofitted with a catalytic 22 oxidizer as anticipated by the DEC. 23 We're just speeding up the 7762 1 process to get ultimate resolution of this and 2 save some money for our bakeries. And I might 3 say that we followed the California car 4 example. We followed the California bakery 5 example. They've actually excuded these ovens 6 if it cost more than 3,000 a ton to retrofit, so 7 they are not doing it. Pennsylvania is not 8 doing it. And we are again overregulating, and 9 this is just a way to get us to a reasonable 10 level and only controlling those which are 11 so-called major emitters, even though all 12 together it would be much less of a fraction of 13 one-tenth of one percent. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 There is some opposition on this bill, and I 19 have in front of me the latest memo, which you 20 may not have, Senator Johnson. It is 21 handwritten, but you know the way things run out 22 of Rules, I admire these people. I'm not making 23 fun of them, because they're trying -- people 7763 1 are trying to keep track of the last day or 2 night, or whatever, of session. 3 But this is a memo signed by a 4 person from NYPIRG, and it says, "NYPIRG, EPL 5 and American Lung Association, all strongly 6 oppose this legislation." 7 I should point out there is also 8 a memorandum in opposition from the State 9 Department of Conservation opposed to it, and 10 it's I think all for very, very obvious 11 reasons. The question is whether or not we 12 should completely exempt a specific category of 13 air pollution sources from reduction 14 requirements. 15 And I would urge everyone to 16 oppose the legislation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: I did mention 21 something about ultimately they will be exempted 22 according to the DEC's own rules. We are just 23 taking away a lot of the paperwork and expense 7764 1 involved; and, ultimately, I might say since we 2 mentioned cost-benefit analysis, which even the 3 Governor agrees on, and the DEC agrees upon in 4 general but not in specific cases, but it is 5 interesting that we got a message from the 6 Department of Economic Development, because they 7 know that the surrounding states are not being 8 this severe, and they support this legislation. 9 I think everyone here ought to 10 know that. I think it's a welcome change. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 13 Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yield to Senator 15 Oppenheimer. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 17 Oppenheimer. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator 19 Johnson, it confuses me that you say that the 20 DEC is going to eventually -- can you not hear 21 me? 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Will you close 23 the door, please. 7765 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Will 2 the sergeant at arms please close the door. 3 Senator Johnson can't hear. 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It puzzles 6 me, Senator, that you say the DEC is going to be 7 approving this, but they are also in strong 8 opposition. They are in opposition to your 9 bill, but you say that this will be happening, 10 that the DEC will be granting them a waiver. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 12 think we're both having problems hearing. I 13 said that DED, the Department of Economic 14 Development, Vincent Tese's office, which is 15 concerned about keeping businesses and jobs in 16 this state, they support this. 17 And I would like to clarify if I 18 didn't say it clearly before. This deals 19 collectively, only emissions of this type, from 20 bakery ovens in the state would equal one-tenth 21 of one percent of the volatile organic compounds 22 emitted in the entire state. We're exempting 80 23 or 90 percent of all the bakeries in this state 7766 1 because they are too small. The large ones, 2 their smaller ovens will also be exempted after 3 this procedure has gone through. The larger 4 ovens will have to be retrofitted. There's 5 agreement they'll do that. 6 So I think we're going to end up 7 at the same destination, except the DEC still 8 hasn't gotten the message, Department of 9 Environmental Conservation, that we should 10 simplify things and not extend them and make 11 them more expensive. 12 The process we're assured will 13 end up the same way. The large ovens, which are 14 major emitters, will be regulated and will be 15 retrofitted and will be no hazard to the air 16 quality of our state. 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 7767 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr. President 4 to explain my vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Markowitz to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: The reason 8 why I'm voting in the affirmative rather than in 9 the negative is that New York City and New York 10 State has lost most of their bakeries. Quite 11 frankly, very often the City of New York Board 12 of Education are forced to purchase bakery goods 13 from Pennsylvania, and I think that we have 14 already hemorrhaged too greatly. And this vital 15 service mainly manufacturing bakery goods 16 employs men and women who work with their hands 17 that don't require a master's degree or a Ph.D., 18 the very jobs New York City and New York State 19 desperately need to retain, to insure the 20 opportunity of full employment to all in our 21 society, and so while I recognize and respect 22 the organizations in the environmental field who 23 obviously have laudable goals, in this case, as 7768 1 it relates to this type of industry that New 2 York so desperately needs to attract again, I 3 have to part company. It's most regrettable 4 parting company, and I applaud those who are 5 voting in favor of the legislation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Markowitz in the affirmative. 8 Results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 1636 are 11 Senators Connor, Galiber, Gold, Jones, Kruger, 12 Leichter, Montgomery, Ohrenstein, Onorato, 13 Oppenheimer, Stachowski, and also Senator 14 Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 47. Nays 13. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1639, by Senator Hannon, Senate Bill Number 19 8818, an act to amend the Penal Law. 20 SENATOR HANNON: Lay it aside 21 temporarily. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 23 aside temporarily. 7769 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1644, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Bill 3 Number 8836, Real Property Tax Law. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 6 Explanation has been asked for. Senator 7 Stafford. I don't know who's got this. I think 8 it's you. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay it 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1645, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill Number 14 8837, Education Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 7770 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1647, by Senator Rath. 4 SENATOR RATH: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Lay 6 that bill aside. We're waiting for a sub. 7 That's a substitution, not a submarine. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1651, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Bill Number 10 424C. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Sorry, 12 we don't have a home rule. Lay it aside. 13 That's the second time around, 14 Senator Present. What's your pleasure? 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1614, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1614. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1614, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 21 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11461A, 22 State Finance Law and the Public Authorities 23 Law. 7771 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Hold 5 on. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7 President. No, I'm not going to oppose this 8 bill. I think there's some constitutional 9 questions that this bill raises, both under the 10 commerce clause and some other provisions, 11 discrimination among persons from different 12 states. I really question whether we can do 13 what we're trying to do here, but go ahead and 14 try it. And four years from now, the Supreme 15 Court will tell us whether we were right or 16 wrong. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 7772 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 Senator Present, can we go back 6 to 1646. The substitution is here. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: 1646. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1646. 9 There is a sub here. 10 SENATOR GOLD: We passed it. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes, let's take 12 it up. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1646. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman 16 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 17 Assembly Bill Number 889 and substitute it for 18 his identical Calendar Number 1646. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 20 Substitution ordered. 21 Read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7773 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 10 recorded in the negative on I believe Calendar 11 Number 1622. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1622, 13 Senator Libous will be in the negative. 14 Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 16 Unless you have some housekeeping or anything 17 else to do right now, we will stand at ease for 18 a moment. 19 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 21 will stand at ease. 22 Senator Levy. 23 SENATOR LEVY: I wish to be 7774 1 recorded in the negative on 1636. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1636, 3 Senator Levy is in the negative. 4 Senator Montgomery. 5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I would 6 like unanimous consent to be in the negative on 7 Calendars 1574 and 1248. 1246, I'm sorry. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 9 objection. 1246. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 12 Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: May I have 14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 15 on Calendar 1636? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1636, 17 Senator Tully will be in the negative. 18 Senator Wright. 19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 20 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 21 the negative on 1622. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1622, 23 Senator Wright will be in the negative. 7775 1 Senator Bruno. I guess not. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 3 Can I ask for unanimous consent to call back 4 Calendar 1622 to be recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1622 6 has left the house, Senator Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: I want to be 8 recorded in the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 10 objection, Senator Bruno will be in the negative 11 on 1622. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Sears. 14 Senator Sears. 15 SENATOR SEARS: Would you do 16 likewise on 1622, I would like to be recorded in 17 the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 19 objection. 20 Senator Hannon. 21 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President. 22 I also would like to be recorded in the negative 23 on 1622. 7776 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Without 2 objection 1622 in the negative. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 5 I'm going to announce a Rules Committee meeting 6 at 8:30. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 8 will be a Rules Committee meeting at 8:30 in 9 Room 332. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: And we will now 11 recess until 9:00 o'clock. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 13 Senate will stand recessed until 9:00 o'clock. 14 (Whereupon, at 6:39 p.m., the 15 Senate recessed.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 7777 1 (The Senate reconvened at 10:18 2 p.m.) 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 4 come to order. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 can we return to reports of standing committees? 8 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 9 read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 11 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 12 following bills directly for third reading: 13 Senate Bill Number 2146-B, by 14 Senator Goodman, an act to amend the Education 15 Law; 16 2355-C, by Senator Larkin, New 17 York State Veterans' Bill of Rights; 18 3597-A, by Senator Stachowski, an 19 act to amend the Executive Law; 20 3636-C, by Senator Holland, an 21 act to amend the Education Law; 22 4951, by Senator Farley, an act 23 to amend the Banking Law; 7778 1 5573-D, by Senator Padavan, an 2 act to amend the Judiciary Law and the Mental 3 Hygiene Law; 4 5854-B, by the Committee on 5 Rules, an act to amend the General Business Law; 6 6092-A, by Senator Tully, New 7 York State Medical Care Facilities Finance 8 Agency Act; 9 7053, by Senator Rath, an act to 10 amend the State Administrative Procedure Act; 11 7141-A, by Senator Rath, State 12 Administrative Procedure Act; 13 7188-B, by Senator Libous, an act 14 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law; 15 7371-B, by Senator Johnson, 16 Public Health Law; 17 7587-A, by Senator Libous, Mental 18 Hygiene Law; 19 7608-A, by Senator Cook, an act 20 to amend the Education Law; 21 7839-A, by Senator Spano, 22 Workers' Compensation Law; 23 7949-A, by the Committee on 7779 1 Rules, Public Authorities Law; 2 8004, by Senator Rath, State 3 Administrative Procedure Act; 4 8110-A, by Senator Skelos, 5 General Obligations Law; 6 8149-A, by Senator Johnson, 7 Education Law; 8 8211-B, by Senator Johnson, 9 Navigation Law; 10 8576-A, by Senator Daly, Public 11 Health Law; 12 8744-A, by Senator Daly, 13 Cooperative Corporations Law; 14 And 8786, by Senator Oppenheimer, 15 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 16 All bills reported directly for 17 third reading. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Third reading. 19 Senator Farley. 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 I wish, on behalf of Senator 23 Seward, to call up his bill, Senate Print 8839, 7780 1 which was recalled from the Assembly which is 2 now at the desk. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 4 read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Seward, Senate Bill Number 8839, an act to amend 7 the State Finance Law. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 9 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 10 bill was passed, and I ask that the bill be 11 restored to the order of third reading. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll on 13 reconsideration. 14 (The Secretary called the roll on 15 reconsideration. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 18 discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly 19 Print 12200, and substitute it for Senator 20 Seward's identical bill. The Senate bill, on 21 first passage, was voted unanimously. I now 22 move that the substituted Assembly bill have its 23 third reading at this time. 7781 1 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 2 ordered. Third reading. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Unanimous. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 12 can we call up Calendar 1406. 13 SENATOR TULLY: What calendar? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: 1406. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 14... 17 SENATOR TULLY: Regular 18 calendar. 19 THE SECRETARY: On the regular 20 calendar of today, Calendar Number 1406, by 21 Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 8584-A, an 22 act in relation to providing a retirement in 23 centive for certain public employees in the town 7782 1 of Babylon. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message of necessity on 1406? 4 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 5 message at the desk. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 7 accept the message. 8 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 9 all those in favor say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The motion is agreed to. The 14 message is accepted. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 16 THE PRESIDENT: There is a home 17 rule message at the desk. Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7783 1 passed. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 can we call up Calendar Number 591. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 6 read. 7 THE SECRETARY: On the regular 8 calendar, Calendar Number 591, by Senator 9 Wright, Senate Bill Number 6120-C, an act to 10 amend the Public Authorities Law and the 11 Executive Law. 12 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 13 message. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 if there's a message at the desk, I move we 16 accept the message. 17 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 18 all those in favor say aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The ayes have it. The motion is 23 agreed to. The message is accepted. 7784 1 Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. You 6 accept the message. Lay it aside. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 8 aside. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 10 can we take up Calendar 1532. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 12 read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1532, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 15 8777-A, an act in relation to providing a 16 retirement incentive for the city of Buffalo. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 19 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 21 accept the message. 22 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 23 all those in favor say aye. 7785 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Opposed nay. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The ayes have 6 it. The motion is agreed to. The message is 7 accepted. There is a home rule message at the 8 desk. Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 19 126. 20 THE PRESIDENT: 126. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: On the active 22 list. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 7786 1 read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 126, restored to third reading earlier today, by 4 Senator Kuhl, Senate Bill Number 6109-C, an act 5 to amend the General Business Law, in relation 6 to the licensing of security guard companies. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 9 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 10 message of necessity at the desk. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 12 accept the message. 13 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 14 all those in favor say aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Opposed nay. 17 (There was no response.) 18 The ayes have it. The motion is 19 agreed to. The message is accepted. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 22 be advised that this bill was restored earlier 23 today. It is not on the calendar, on the 7787 1 printed calendar, for today. We're on a 2 supplement or on a supplemental calendar. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Mr. President, I am going to ask 8 Senator Kuhl, who is the sponsor, to yield just 9 to explain briefly, so I think that will answer 10 a lot of questions. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 12 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 About three weeks to a month ago, 15 this house adopted almost unanimously a bill 16 that meant to redefine a -- what was called the 17 Security Guard Act of 1992. That bill essential 18 ly eliminated three groupings of people who were 19 included in a definition other than security 20 guard companies, those people, groups, being 21 not-for-profit governmental entities and 22 proprietaries. 23 Since that time we've had some 7788 1 very intense negotiations, and we've worked out 2 a scheme to try to maintain the public trust in 3 security guards and at the same time eliminate 4 people that I mentioned at the time that were 5 being included in that bill, people like ski 6 patrol, ushers at the various types of concerts, 7 volunteers at county fairs, individuals and 8 policemen. 9 Under this revised bill, which is 10 three -- there's a three-party -- three-way 11 agreement -- those people would be eliminated. 12 We think it's a significant savings, 13 contribution coming from the state to people and 14 yet there's a great deal of security that people 15 should be assured of. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last - 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 19 Senator Leichter has asked what is a very, very 20 reasonable question as usual, and that is, 21 quotes, Do we have a bill that's been 22 distributed to the desks? 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bills are 7789 1 being distributed as we speak. 2 SENATOR GOLD: I see. Well, Mr. 3 President, I know this is a significant bill 4 which is worth at least two shots a side, but 5 perhaps we can just hold the vote for a minute 6 until we see the actual piece of legislation. 7 I'm sure there's no problem. I appreciate 8 Senator Kuhl's explanation. 9 Mr. President, I think in 10 passing, I don't even know whether it's worth 11 two shots a side now. 12 Will the Senator yield? Would 13 Senator Kuhl yield to a question, please? 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, thank you. 16 Senator, now that the bill is 17 distributed, as I understand it, this bill is 18 basically a compromise worked out with the 19 Assembly some place in the middle of where we 20 were and what their bill was, is that correct? 21 SENATOR KUHL: That's -- that's a 22 fair statement. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7790 1 Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 3 Kuhl yield to one question? 4 SENATOR KUHL: Certainly. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 6 Mr. President, just to explain to me what the 7 effect of this on a -- this compromise on a 8 nursing home that happens to employ a night 9 watchman or a couple of college kids on a 10 part-time basis, to provide some security 11 services, what's the impact of this bill on that 12 arrangement? 13 SENATOR KUHL: Frankly, number 14 one, a nursing home under this particular bill 15 probably would be exempt from registering as a 16 security guard company, so there's the 17 elimination of a $400 fee every two years and 18 all the time that's involved in that. There's 19 also an application that's involved in the 20 language here that would allow for those 21 individuals who don't necessarily fall within 22 the concept of what's normally considered to be 23 a security guard by being totally exempted from 7791 1 the training requirement if they meet certain 2 standards. There's a waiver provision that's 3 built in here for the department or Division of 4 Criminal Justice Services to address that 5 issue. 6 So it's -- while I can't say 7 definitively exactly what it means to them, 8 there's a potential that it could be not only 9 significant savings but a significant saving 10 relative to actual training that we're already 11 conducting. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Thank 13 you, Mr. President. I think that's a good step 14 in the right direction. I commend the sponsor 15 for it. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 7792 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 can we take up 1632. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 5 read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1632. 8 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tully. 10 SENATOR TULLY: If this is saving 11 a lot of time, do you think we could be told 12 whether these bills are on the regular calendar, 13 the Supplemental 1 or Supplemental 2? 14 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, that's a 15 very reasonable request. This is on page 4 of 16 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1632, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Bill Number 11893-A, an act to amend 20 the Highway Law and the Public Authorities Law. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 is there a message of necessity at the desk on 23 this bill? 7793 1 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 2 message at the desk. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 4 accept the message. 5 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 6 all those in favor say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed nay. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 The ayes have it. The motion is 11 agreed to. The message is accepted. 12 Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 19 passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me, ayes 21 59, nays one, Senator Larkin recorded in the 22 negative. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 7794 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 2 Calendar Number 591. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page -- on 4 page 9 of the regular calendar, Calendar Number 5 591, by Senator Wright, Senate Bill Number 6 6120-C, an act to amend the Public Authorities 7 Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Message? 9 THE PRESIDENT: We have already 10 accepted the message on this bill. 11 Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 could we call up Calendar 1590. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 29 of the 22 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1590, by 23 Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 8757, Real 7795 1 Property Tax Law. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message of necessity at the desk on 4 1590? 5 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, there is. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 7 accept the message. 8 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 9 all those in favor say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The ayes have 15 it. The motion is agreed to. The message is 16 accepted. 17 Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will 19 Senator Skelos yield to a question? 20 Senator, my notes say it excludes 21 income derived from the proceeds of a mortgage, 22 from senior citizen tax exemption. I'm assuming 23 it includes it, not excludes it. 7796 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Excludes 2 income. 3 SENATOR GOLD: I mean my note may 4 be wrong here. I assume what it means it 5 includes it as something that is exempt from a 6 tax. Am I correct? 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 8 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 19 1482. 20 THE PRESIDENT: On page 24 of the 21 regular calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1482, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 7162, 7797 1 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 2 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 3 message. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 I move we accept the message. 6 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 7 all those in favor say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The ayes have it. The motion is 12 agreed to. The message is accepted. 13 Last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 Senator Present. 22 Thank you, Senator Gold, for your 23 help. 7798 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we call up 2 Calendar Number 1361? 3 THE PRESIDENT: 1361, I believe 4 -- page 21 of the regular calendar. 5 THE SECRETARY: Page 21 of the 6 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1316, by 7 Senator Tully, Senate Bill Number 8392, an act 8 to amend the Public Health Law. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 SENATOR DALY: What number? 18 THE PRESIDENT: 1316. It's on 19 page 21 of the regular calendar. 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 21 could we call up Calendar 1510. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Page 24. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 24 of the 7799 1 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1510, by 2 Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 8569-A, an 3 act to amend the Insurance Law. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 6 THE PRESIDENT: There is. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 8 accept the message. 9 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 10 all those in favor say aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed nay. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 The ayes have it. The motion is 15 agreed to. The message is accepted. 16 Last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 7800 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Take up 1565. 3 THE PRESIDENT: 1555? 4 SENATOR PRESENT: 1565. 5 THE PRESIDENT: '65, O.K. 6 THE SECRETARY: Page 25 of the 7 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1565, by the 8 Committee on Rules, Senate Bill Number 8822, an 9 act to amend the State Finance Law, in relation 10 to contents of appropriation bills. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation, 12 please. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 14 Senator Stafford. There will be order in the 15 chamber. Now, there's going to be some 16 discussion, so we need some order. 17 Senator Stafford. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 19 it's certainly understandable for a request for 20 an explanation. This is a bill which really is 21 analogous to or an answer to the bankers' case 22 which came out of the Court of Appeals which 23 said that we could put no language into the 7801 1 budget. The Governor would prepare a budget and 2 have appropriations and then we'd write in how 3 that appropriation was going to be spent and, in 4 fact, we would, in effect, write programs in 5 there. The Court of Appeals said that we could 6 not do that. 7 This bill now answers and says - 8 and limits what the Governor can do in the 9 budget and he can't now write and really have 10 explanations in the budget and appropriations 11 have to be in effect one at a time. 12 Now, I can see why we're moving 13 in that direction. I can see why we're moving 14 in that direction for clarity so we will 15 understand, while in another part of the bill it 16 defines what an appropriation is because through 17 the years there have been questions and it 18 states, as you can read, an appropriation is an 19 amount of money authorized to be expended for a 20 single object or purpose. An appropriation may 21 include one or more items. 22 Two, what an item is, as far as 23 this area goes, is defined, you'll note. An 7802 1 item is an undivided sum of money within an 2 appropriation to be expended and the identity of 3 the single program or purpose for which such sum 4 is to be expended. 5 I feel I can really explain it 6 more clearly than the actual words come out. 7 This is what this bill is about. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 9 President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 11 Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 13 I thank Senator Stafford for particularly his 14 clear explanation and, Senator, I can only say 15 as the session goes along, your explanations get 16 clearer and better. I had a little trouble 17 understanding the explanations on the 18 legislative budget, but tonight you were crystal 19 clear and I think Senator Stafford has given us 20 a good explanation of the bill which is that 21 we're trying to impose on the Governor the same 22 limitation that the courts imposed on us, which 23 is that we can not by language shape -- that we 7803 1 can not, by language, shape governmental 2 programs but neither should the Governor in an 3 appropriation bill put in language which creates 4 programs or modifies or alters programs because 5 that's really the function of the Legislature 6 and I'm going to support the bill. I don't know 7 if the Governor is going to sign it. I know the 8 Assembly is going to support it because this is 9 really a battle of the third floor versus the 10 second floor. We're all together on this one, 11 guys. 12 But let me just point out one 13 thing. I appreciate the sort of punctilious 14 care that the Majority in this house and in the 15 other house shows for the budgetary process 16 except as we've noted when it comes to the 17 legislative budget. Then, well, you know, who 18 cares if it's itemized? Who cares how we define 19 appropriations? Who cares how we define items? 20 And it just seems to me that, if 21 we're going to hold the feet of the Governor to 22 the constitutional fire, we ought to do the same 23 thing. Unfortunately, too often we see a double 7804 1 standard here. We see Senator Bruno get up and 2 rail about waste in government, but when it 3 comes to the Legislature, nothing is too good, 4 no expenditure is too great. Create another 5 temporary commission, give it money, provide 6 staffing and, of course, never reveal how public 7 money is being spent. 8 I would just hope that, as we 9 pass this bill, that we might reflect that 10 what's good for the Governor is also good for 11 the Legislature. 12 Thank you, Mr. President. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: I know that we all 16 want to be able to legislate out in the open and 17 understand the debate and since Senator 18 Stafford, according to Senator Leichter, gave 19 one of his clearest explanations, for those of 20 you who are concerned about Senator Leichter's 21 remarks about "punctilious," where he decided 22 that we ought to tell you, I've checked the 23 dictionary, and it basically means careful 7805 1 observance of forms, observance of a code. 2 Thank you. 3 Last section. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 11 passed. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 let's take up the non-controversial calendar 15 Supplemental 2 Calendar, non-controversial. 16 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 17 Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1641, Senator 18 Goodman moves to discharge the Committee on 19 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 425-B and 20 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 21 1641. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 23 ordered. Last section. 7806 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 1641 are 10 Senators Cook, Daly, Farley, Johnson, Kuhl, 11 Larkin and Saland. Also Senator Nozzolio. Ayes 12 52, nays 8. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1654, Senator Larkin moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 18 3671-D and substitute it for the identical Third 19 Reading 1654. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 21 ordered. Last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7807 1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1655, Senator Stachowski moved to discharge the 8 Committee on Finance from Assembly Bill Number 9 6068-A and substitute it for the identical Third 10 Reading 1655. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 12 ordered. The bill is laid aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1656, Senator Holland moves to discharge the 15 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 16 5411-C and substitute it for the identical Third 17 Reading 1656. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 19 ordered. Last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7808 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 3 passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1657, Senator Farley moves to discharge the 6 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7 961-A and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading 1657. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 10 ordered. Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1658, Senator Padavan moves to - 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan 22 moves - 23 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we're going 7809 1 to substitute. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan 3 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 4 Assembly Bill Number 5681-C, and substitute it 5 for the identical Third Reading 1658. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7 ordered. The bill is laid aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1659, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 7808-A and substitute it for the identical Third 12 Reading 1659. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 14 ordered. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay aside. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1660, Senator Tully moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 8627-B, and substitute it for the identical 22 Third Reading 1660. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Lay aside, 7810 1 please. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 3 ordered. The bill is laid aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 5 1661, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 7053, 6 an act to amend the State Administrative 7 Procedure Act. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 9 please. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 11 aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1662, by Senator Rath. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 15 please. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 17 aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1663, Senator Libous moves to discharge the 20 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 21 10883-B, and substitute it for the identical 22 Third Reading 1663. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7811 1 ordered. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message on 1663 at the desk? 4 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 5 message at the desk. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 7 accept the message. 8 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 9 all those in favor say aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The ayes have it. The motion is 14 agreed to. The message is accepted. 15 Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7812 1 1664, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill -- Senator 2 Johnson moves to discharge the Committee on 3 Rules from Assembly Bill Number 8355-D and 4 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 5 1664. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 7 ordered. 8 Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1665, Senator Libous moves to discharge the 18 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 19 10913-A, and substitute it for the identical 20 Third Reading 1665. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 22 ordered. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7813 1 is there a message on Calendar 1665 at the desk? 2 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 3 message at the desk. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 5 accept the message. 6 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 7 all those in favor say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 The ayes of it. The motion is 12 agreed to. The message is accepted. 13 Last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1666, Senator Cook moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7814 1 11762-A, and substitute it for the identical 2 Third Reading 1666. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution is 4 ordered. The bill will be laid aside. It is 5 high. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1667, Senator Spano moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 16721-A, and substitute it for the identical 10 Third Reading 1667. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution is 12 ordered. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 is there a message of necessity on 1667 at the 15 desk? 16 THE PRESIDENT: There is. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 18 accept the message. 19 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 20 all those in favor say aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 7815 1 The ayes have it. The motion is 2 agreed to. The message is accepted. 3 Last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1668, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 13 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 14 10665-A, and substitute it for the identical 15 Third Reading 1668. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 17 ordered. 18 Last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7816 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 2 passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1669, by Senator Rath. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 6 please. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 8 aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1670, Senator Skelos moves to discharge the 11 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 12 11839, and substitute it for the identical Third 13 Reading 1670. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 15 ordered. The bill is laid aside. It is high. 16 Oh, it isn't. Still laid aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1671, Senator Johnson moves to discharge the 19 Committee on Rules - 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: -- from Assembly 22 Bill Number 12039-A and substitute it for the 23 identical Third Reading 1671. 7817 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 3 ordered. The bill is laid aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1672, by Senator Johnson. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill will be 7 laid aside for a substitution. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1673, Senator Daly moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 11829-A and substitute it for the identical 12 Third Reading 1673. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 14 ordered. 15 Last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7818 1 1674, Senator Daly moves to discharge the 2 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 3 12054-A and substitute it for the identical 4 Third Reading 1674. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 6 ordered. 7 Last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1675, Senator Oppenheimer moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 18 12049 and substitute it for the identical Third 19 Reading 1675. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 21 ordered. There is a home rule message at the 22 desk. 23 Last section. 7819 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7 passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 9 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 10 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 11 negative on Calendar Number 1641. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Without 13 objection, so ordered. 14 Senator Jones. 15 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Mr. 16 President, I would also like to be a "no" on 17 1641, please. 18 THE PRESIDENT: 1641. 19 SENATOR JONES: Yes. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, so ordered. 22 Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7820 1 I move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar 2 that's -- copies of which are on our desk. 3 THE PRESIDENT: On the 4 resolutions, all those in favor say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The ayes have it. The 9 resolutions are adopted. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: I would like 13 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 14 on Calendar Number 1656. Thank you. 15 SENATOR NANULA: Mr. President. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nanula. 17 SENATOR NANULA: I'd like to 18 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 19 negative on Calendar Number 389 and 1646. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, so ordered. 22 Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Let's take up 7821 1 the controversial calendar on Senate 2 Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 3 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 4 Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1655, 5 substituted earlier, by member of the Assembly 6 Bragman, Assembly Bill Number 6068-A, an act to 7 amend the Executive Law. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 18 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Levy. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. President, I 21 expect that this will be the last meeting of the 22 Transportation Committee to consider a 23 nomination. A nomination has just come up from 7822 1 the Governor for Bert Conovy to be a member of 2 the MTA from Orange County and we want to do 3 this before the regular session ended. 4 Immediate meeting in Room 124 of 5 the Capitol. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Immediate meeting 7 of the Transportation Committee in Room 124. 8 Senator Kuhl. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 10 President. I'd like to request unanimous 11 consent to be recorded in the negative on 12 Calendar Number 1656. 1656. 13 THE PRESIDENT: 1656. Without 14 objection, so ordered. 15 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano. 17 SENATOR SPANO: I'd like 18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 19 on Calendar Number 1656. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, so ordered. 22 Senator Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 7823 1 Mr. President, I request unanimous consent to be 2 recorded in the negative on 1656. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Without 4 objection, it's so ordered. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Seward. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. I was out 8 of the chamber when 1656 passed, and I would ask 9 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 10 on this bill. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Without 12 objection, it's so ordered. 13 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 14 Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 1658, 15 substituted earlier, by member of the Assembly 16 Connelly, Assembly Bill Number 5681-C, an act to 17 amend the Judiciary Law. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 7824 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Explanation. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Explanation is 3 requested. Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 This bill would add a new section 7 to the Mental Hygiene Law establishing a 8 three-year involuntary out-patient pilot project 9 at a general hospital in the city of New York 10 which will involve that facility in a program 11 that would reach out not only to those who are 12 involuntarily committed for the brief period of 13 time that the current law provides but also 14 establish a mechanism for mandatory out-patient 15 treatment program which will involve therapy, 16 medication and whatever is deemed appropriate 17 depending upon the particular needs of the 18 individual involved. 19 This bill has passed the Assembly 20 as is obvious. It is supported by the 21 Department of Mental Health; it is supported by 22 advocacy groups such as the Alliance for the 23 Mentally Ill, State Communities Aid Association 7825 1 and, of course, it is advanced very strongly by 2 the city of New York. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 4 President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 8 I'd appreciate if Senator Padavan would yield, 9 please. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 12 me first say I commend you for the work that 13 you've done on this issue. It's obviously a 14 very difficult and complex issue, but the one 15 thing that isn't clear to me now, we're going to 16 have a pilot program, it's going to be one 17 hospital. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Right. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Which hospital 20 is it? 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Bellevue. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: It's going to 23 be Bellevue, and really the question I have, is 7826 1 the pilot program going to work in the catchment 2 area of Bellevue or are they going to go 3 throughout the City, or I assume they're not 4 going to go outside the City; what area? 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Could be 6 anywhere within the City, could be anywhere 7 within the city of New York, but in order to 8 properly evaluate this program which is for 9 three years, then it will expire depending upon 10 obviously what we do thereafter or at some point 11 in time, and has to be obviously coordinated, 12 and so the focal point will be Bellevue. 13 But as you know, there are crisis 14 teams that got out throughout the City. As a 15 matter of fact, there's another bill sponsored 16 by Senator Libous which presumably we'll get to 17 in a little while that expands upon their 18 function and how they operate on a citywide 19 basis sending teams out wherever they are needed 20 to deal with this population. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. Thank 22 you. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 7827 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 6 one, Senator Spano recorded in the negative. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1659, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 11 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7808-A, 12 an act to amend the General Business Law. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately -- this act 16 shall take effect immediately. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 20 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7828 1 1660, substituted earlier, by - 2 SENATOR CONNOR: Could we lay it 3 aside for a few minutes. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1661, by Senator Rath. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 10 aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1662, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 13 7141-A, State Administrative Procedure Act. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Bill is laid 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1669, by Senator Rath. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1670, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 7829 1 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11839, 2 General Obligations Law. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Gold, 5 this bill modifies the statutory short form 6 power of attorney to, number one, clarify the 7 powers granted, allows for multiple principles, 8 you would have to confer the powers 9 individually, allows the powers to remain in 10 effect even after the subsequent disability of 11 the principal and provides the power may only be 12 resolved or terminated in writing. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator 14 yield to a question? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, there are 17 -- there are a number of situations in the law 18 where we try to make common sense out of 19 something and there are some situations in the 20 law, as you know, I'm sure, where you just have 21 to have an answer. 22 So, for example, if somebody 23 sends somebody a letter offering you a contract 7830 1 and they accept it, some states may say, well, 2 when you mail the acceptance back, you have the 3 contract, I'm saying when you receive it, either 4 way one or the other knows, you got to have it 5 to see. 6 Senator, right now the law 7 provides one way and we're changing it. Is 8 there some reason; is there a case; have people 9 been injured; is there some rationale for 10 changing it? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: It's just a good 12 common sense approach. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, 14 will you yield for a question? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 16 SENATOR GOLD: I know it's rare 17 in this place, but I'm willing to listen to good 18 common sense. What's the difference between 19 people if they vacate a power of attorney and 20 straighten some things out or make some checks 21 which is an affirmative act? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: I think the 23 affirmative act of having to designate each of 7831 1 the powers which you wish to give to an 2 individual, you have to think of each one that 3 you're giving, I think, more specifically. 4 Sometimes people will fill out powers and not 5 really fully comprehend the extent of what they 6 are giving to somebody else in terms of their 7 lives and their -- their businesses, and I think 8 this would specify more directly where you would 9 -- you would specifically have to initial in 10 each box what powers you are giving. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the 12 Senator will yield to one more question. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 14 SENATOR GOLD: I mean it's not 15 worth a lot of time, but it just struck me as 16 strange. I mean this is -- we've had a 17 situation where I think it was Senator either 18 Holland or Daly who spoke about somebody who had 19 $160,000 and was getting social services and was 20 upset and Senator Volker has that classic case 21 of an assistant D.A. who made a mistake and 22 we're changing the law. 23 Is there any bar association or 7832 1 is there a case from the courts that shows some 2 injustices; is that the reason we're doing this, 3 or I mean it's just this -- something that three 4 three years from now, we'll get another pen 5 certificate changing it back? I'm just asking. 6 I have no problem one way or the other. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not familiar 8 with it. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Last section. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- ayes 59, 16 nays one, Senator Hannon recorded in the 17 negative. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 19 passed. 20 Senator Holland. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 22 with unanimous consent, I'd like to be recorded 23 in the negative on Calendar Number 1641, 7833 1 please. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Without 3 objection, so ordered. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1671, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7 12039-A, Environmental Conservation Law. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Will the 9 Senator yield to a question? 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: What number is 11 this? 12 THE PRESIDENT: 1671. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 14 yield to a question? 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, under the 17 bill - 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 19 SENATOR GOLD: -- I'm only 20 concerned about this for Senator Ohrenstein. 21 The -- one second. No, he says he understands 22 it. 23 Last section. 7834 1 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 7 one, Senator LaValle recorded in the negative. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1672, Senator Johnson moves to discharge the 12 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 13 10,225-B, and substitute it for the identical 14 Calendar Number 1672. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 16 ordered. 17 Last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 7835 1 passed. 2 (The Senate stood at ease. ) 3 (The Senate reconvened.) 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar Number 7 1644, on Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 8 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 9 Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1641 -- 1644, 10 by the Committee on Rules, Senate Bill 8836, an 11 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Just a moment, 13 please. Getting to look at the bill. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Leichter 16 would like an explanation. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 18 Leichter, the general purpose of this bill is to 19 allow the city of New York to grant 421-a tax 20 benefits to certain commercial buildings that 21 are now being rehabilitated or potentially 22 rehabilitated for residential use. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 7836 1 Padavan, if you'd be good enough to yield. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Bear with me 4 just one minute. I want to get the bill. 5 Senator, I'm advised that the aim 6 and purpose of this bill is to benefit one 7 particular developer; is that your 8 understanding? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, and I'd 10 appreciate if you'd tell me who that might be. 11 We're talking about buildings that have not been 12 used for residential purposes for a period of 50 13 years prior to the conversion, so these are very 14 old buildings, at least 50 years old if not 15 older. I don't know of any portion of this bill 16 that would relate to a singular owner of a 17 singular piece of property. There are, as you 18 notice from the description, limits in terms of 19 what areas of the City would be covered by this, 20 and, of course, the adoption of rules and regs 21 by the City Council. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 23 Padavan, I'm just passing on to you the 7837 1 information that I have that this is to benefit 2 Mr. Eichner's project that he has, and I'm 3 always very suspicious when I see such a -- a 4 bill, but I must say, in all honesty to you, 5 that this is something that I was advised and I 6 can't vouch for the veracity of the 7 information. 8 But let me -- let me address 9 another aspect of this. As you know, Senator, 10 we've had the 421-a program around for some time 11 and it's been somewhat controversial, particu 12 larly because it was used not to create 13 affordable housing, but ended up subsidizing a 14 lot of luxury housing primarily in Senator Good 15 man's district, and we then changed the program 16 to exclude it from certain areas of the City 17 because we wanted to build housing in areas 18 where it would provide affordable housing in 19 areas where housing construction didn't occur. 20 Maybe that was in some parts of your district; 21 it certainly included parts of my district or 22 the district that I used to have in northern 23 Manhattan. 7838 1 As I read this bill, we're not 2 putting back some of the very streets and parts 3 of the city that were excluded because it was 4 felt that 421-a was not necessary. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: M-m h-m-m. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I'd just 7 like to understand from you why that's being 8 done. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: It's not my 10 area either, lot closer to yours than it is to 11 mine, but the difference here is that this 12 particular program relates to commercial 13 buildings -- that's what I would say, the 14 difference, Senator, is that this bill relates 15 to commercial buildings older than 50 years that 16 are now being converted. 17 That's quite different than I 18 think what you were talking about, these high 19 rise luxury apartments that were being built 20 from the ground up. It's an entirely different 21 matter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 23 in that regard, I -- I have a problem and let me 7839 1 ask this question of you, if you will continue 2 to yield, please. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'll do my 4 best. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, we 6 had not used 421-a for commercial or for the 7 conversion from commercial buildings to 8 residential, and one reason was that we have 9 lost commercial space, mainly industrial space, 10 and a lot of it was in Manhattan. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Old industrial 13 buildings that were converted to loft use. Most 14 of that was also what you would call luxury 15 housing, and what we really needed was to keep 16 that industrial space because it was good cheap 17 industrial, or relatively cheap space for 18 industry, provided manufacturing jobs, which as 19 you know, we've lost. At one time Manhattan had 20 200,000 manufacturing jobs. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's right. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: In the -- have 23 a few -- I don't know, 20-, 30-, 40-, 50,000, 7840 1 we've lost most of those partly because we've 2 also lost space for them. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Right. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: So aren't you 5 going to further exacerbate this loss of good 6 industrial space by providing a subsidy if you 7 convert from industrial space to residential 8 space? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator, 10 I would be guided by your views on where this 11 will be applicable beginning on Line 11, I guess 12 or 12, bounded on the north by 81st Street, on 13 the south by 79th Street, on the east by Second 14 Avenue and on the west by Third Avenue. 15 I -- my recollection of that area 16 is that it is not an industrial area by any 17 means. There obviously are commercial buildings 18 there, but it's not an industrial manufacturing 19 area. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 21 you're right, that the area as such is not, but 22 I'm just saying in principle, I think it's a 23 mistake. 7841 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, in 2 principle, you would be, if this bill were not 3 limited in the fashion that I just read to you. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 5 me just say to you since it's limited very 6 narrowly, it's between 81st Street, 81st Street 7 and 79th Street, so it's two blocks and it's on 8 the east Second Avenue and on the west by Third 9 Avenue, so it's obviously such a narrow area - 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Seems that 11 way. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- that it 13 would seem to me that the information that I got 14 that it's to assist one developer is correct. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Could you tell 16 me about this person? I never heard of him 17 personally. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Eichner. He's 19 a fairly active developer in New York. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'd like to 21 withdraw that question. 22 THE PRESIDENT: I'd like to ask 23 there be some semblance of order. 7842 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: I meant it for 4 both Senators. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 7 you've withdrawn the question. My answer would 8 have been neutral anyhow, because I don't know. 9 He's had some difficulties. I think he once 10 built a building that turned out to be higher 11 than the zoning code allowed. 12 Thank you, Senator. You've been 13 very helpful - 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I tried. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- in carrying 16 this bill which isn't even your area. 17 My colleagues, I would say on 18 principle this bill is wrong because we should 19 not provide a subsidy to convert commercial 20 space to residential. The Majority has often 21 expressed concern about the loss of jobs. Well, 22 one of the reasons we've lost manufacturing 23 jobs, certainly not the main reason, but one of 7843 1 them is because we've also lost cheap industrial 2 space that is needed, so we shouldn't further 3 the loss of this space, but clearly, as you look 4 at the area and you deal with it, it seems to be 5 to benefit one individual. We just shouldn't be 6 passing this sort of legislation. I'm going to 7 urge people to vote in the negative. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58 -- ayes 14 58, nays two, Senators Leichter and Ohrenstein 15 recorded in the negative. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 can we take up 1647 on the first supplemental 20 calendar? 21 SENATOR GOLD: Which one? 22 THE PRESIDENT: 1647. 23 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 7844 1 Calendar Number 1, Calendar Number 1647, Senator 2 Rath moves to discharge the Committee on Rules 3 from Assembly Bill Number 12205 and substitute 4 it for the identical Third Reading 1647. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 6 ordered. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Last section? 10 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 just briefly to explain my vote. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter 18 is recognized to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm supporting 20 this bill which is going to provide additional 21 monies and a means by which to further 22 construction of day care facilities. I am 23 somewhat concerned that the Urban Development 7845 1 Corporation is being brought into this process 2 to work with the Department of Social Services. 3 I just don't feel that the Urban Development 4 Corporation has either the expertise in this 5 area or the background. I don't think it's an 6 ideal agency to do this, and I think in many 7 ways we've really created a sort of a super 8 government in the Urban Development 9 Corporation. 10 I'd feel much more comfortable if 11 we had an agency that we controlled, that we 12 supervised, that didn't have the history of 13 activity that the Urban Development Corporation 14 has, but I think the important thing is to get 15 this program going, and I'm told by the sponsors 16 that this was the only way it could be done, so 17 I'm going to support the bill, but I wanted to 18 state my hesitation about the Urban Development 19 Corporation. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7846 1 can we call up Calendar Number 389 on our first 2 calendar. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 389, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 5 2629-A, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 6 and Rules. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 8 message of necessity at the desk on 389? 9 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 10 message at the desk. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 12 accept the message. 13 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 14 all those in favor say aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Opposed nay. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 The ayes have it. The motion is 19 agreed to. The message is accepted. 20 Last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, 7847 1 Senator. 2 THE PRESIDENT: I'm sorry. 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, 5 explanation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold 7 requests an explanation. Senator Maltese. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 9 this measure is being introduced at the request 10 of the chief administrator of the courts upon 11 the recommendation of his Advisory Committee on 12 Civil Practice. It would amend the C.P.L.R. to 13 regularize the giving of notification to other 14 parties upon application for TROs, thereby 15 curtailing unwarranted ex parte orders for such 16 relief, by introducing a simple and expeditious 17 method that would also provide for TROs -- that 18 would also provide for TROs without such 19 notification when appropriate. 20 The measure is designed to 21 expedite the entire procedure for obtaining a 22 TRO while providing for notification to other 23 parties. Prior notification should still be 7848 1 regarded as the norm, thereby avoiding the 2 two-step procedure under which notification is 3 not given until ordered by the court, and the 4 application must then be re-submitted to the 5 court. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: There is a 9 memorandum which maybe my colleague was 10 referring to in support by the Office of Court 11 Administration, and also one from the Conference 12 of Mayors. However, there is opposition on this 13 bill from the Legal Services of the city of New 14 York, and from the New York State Tenant and 15 Neighborhood Coalition and from the Metropolitan 16 Council on Housing. 17 The Tenant and Neighborhood 18 Coalition memo is the shortest, so I will just 19 make some reference to that. 20 "The bill will work a great 21 hardship, particularly on tenants acting pro se 22 in eviction proceedings. It would amend the 23 Civil Practice Law and Rules to require any 7849 1 party seeking a restraining order to notify 2 adverse parties before submitting the 3 application. Tenants, acting pro se, without 4 the benefit of an attorney or access to 5 knowledgeable legal advice and under the stress 6 of a threat of eviction, can unknowingly impair 7 their case. Because of the lack of financial 8 resources, pro se appearances are very common 9 for tenants facing eviction. In its present 10 form," and they're talking about the "A" print, 11 "this bill will result in injustice. It can 12 and should be amended to avoid such a result." 13 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, I 16 rise to express my deep concerns about the 17 changes this would make. Obviously there are 18 people who are concerned about the work load of 19 the courts, but this is not the way to go about 20 it. 21 This procedural change gives 22 protections to many people in specific 23 situations. The purported changes that the 7850 1 C.P.L.R. Committee would like to make just don't 2 work. It says you must give an affidavit if the 3 notification is not going to be practical, but 4 you don't know that when you're going into court 5 to get your notification, and what's -- if they 6 wanted to make the change, they ought to have 7 suggested that the standards for which the TRO 8 is available ought to be changed, not the 9 procedure. 10 I would not urge -- I would urge 11 a vote against this. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 would you withdraw the roll call and lay the 20 bill aside. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you so 22 much. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 7851 1 aside. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 3 Calendar 1660. 4 THE PRESIDENT: 1660, 5 Supplemental Calendar 2. 6 THE SECRETARY: Page 1 on 7 Supplemental Calendar Number 2, Calendar Number 8 1661, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 10 8627-B. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: New York Medical 13 Care Facilities Finance Agency Act. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 21 Santiago. 22 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 23 I'd like to be excused from voting on this 7852 1 bill. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Without 3 objection. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Without -- thank 5 you very much, Senator. Without objection, so 6 ordered. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, on behalf of 10 Senator Espada, I ask permission he be excused 11 from voting. Senator Espada. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Without 13 objection, so ordered. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 Senator Santiago. 18 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 19 without objection, I'd like to be recorded in 20 the negative on Calendars 1246, 1473, 1574 and 21 1564. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Without 23 objection, so ordered. 7853 1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Smith. 3 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I 4 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 5 negative on Calendar Number 1473. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Without 7 objection, so ordered. 8 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 10 would you recognize Senator Spano. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano. 12 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 13 there will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 14 Labor Committee in Room 332 for the purpose of 15 considering seven nominations from the Governor 16 for the Workers' Compensation Board. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Immediate meeting 18 of the Labor Committee. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 20 Mr. President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Would you please 23 recognize Senator Mendez. 7854 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I wish to have unanimous consent 4 to be recorded in the negative in Calendar 5 Number 1473, regular calendar. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Without 7 objection, so ordered. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Good. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: I've heard these 12 motions made all day, but I don't think I've 13 heard it made quite that classy in a long time. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: May we return 16 to reports of standing committees. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 18 read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 21 following nominations: Members of the 22 Metropolitan Transportation Authority, John S. 23 Dyson, of New York City; James L. Sidori, Jr., 7855 1 of Fishkill, and Edward A. Vrooman, of 2 Garrison. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The question 4 occurs on the con... 5 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Hold it. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Oh. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 9 temporarily. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The nominations 11 are laid aside. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 14 a few moments ago we laid aside the three - 15 yeah, we're laying awake. We laid aside three 16 nominees. We'll bring them back on the floor. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The nominees for 18 the Metropolitan Transportation Authority are - 19 yeah, why don't we have, the Secretary will read 20 the nominees again. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 23 following nominations: Member of the 7856 1 Metropolitan Transportation Authority, John S. 2 Dyson, of New York City; James L. Sidori, Jr., 3 of Fishkill, and Edward A. Vrooman of Garrison. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Galiber. 6 SENATOR GALIBER: This, Mr. 7 President is -- it's usually customary, and this 8 is not, where we would vote on all three 9 nominees for the MTA. I would respectfully ask 10 that we vote on -- pull them and vote on them 11 individually. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: No objection. 13 SENATOR GOLD: No objection. 14 Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 17 President. We all know the situation, and my - 18 my suggestion is, if you want to take the two 19 that are not Mr. Dyson, maybe we can vote on 20 that, and we can get -- I mean I know everybody 21 is trying to be delicate, but I figure maybe at 22 12:30, we'll move it along a little bit. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Fine. So the - 7857 1 then the appointments before the Senate are of 2 James Sidori and Edward Vrooman. 3 On the confirmation of the 4 nominees, all those in favor say aye. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The nominees are confirmed. 10 Now, the nomination of John S. 11 Dyson is before this Senate. Senator Waldon. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 13 much, Mr. President. 14 Mr. Dyson is a Democrat serving 15 in a Republican administration in the city of 16 New York, and I became aware of a statement 17 attributed to him a few days ago, and it's easy 18 to take cheap shots at someone for political 19 purposes, but I never wish to be remembered as 20 such a person, and I don't think that anyone who 21 gives of himself or herself in public life 22 should have that occur, and so in the spirit of 23 cooperation and collaboration, I spoke with our 7858 1 esteemed chairman of the Transportation 2 Committee, Norman Levy, and had some dialogue 3 with him regarding my personal consternation 4 regarding the statements alleged to have been 5 made by Mr. Dyson. 6 Subsequent to that, I spoke with 7 the deputy mayor on the phone and, in fact, met 8 with him on two separate occasions, and in the 9 spirit of cooperation and collaboration again, I 10 listened to his clarification of his remarks. 11 Subsequent to that, I called a 12 number of people who I believe knew him and have 13 known him for quite some time and some actually 14 reached out to me and we spoke of the merits of 15 John Dyson, the man, the history of him as a 16 public servant, and his philosophy in terms of 17 government and governance -- governance, 18 especially now that he's a member of the 19 administration of the city of New York. 20 And why did I take such pain in 21 doing this? The reason for that is that the 22 stakes are very high when someone is alleged to 23 have made, in the papers and by my personal 7859 1 assessment, a racist remark. The New York Daily 2 News, which I am not a true supporter of, but in 3 an editorial said in regard to these statements, 4 "Offense is not dependent on intent." All of 5 the people of New York City have a right to 6 expect a higher standard of speech from top 7 officials. 8 I believe that these remarks, 9 which arose during negotiations for the letting 10 of a contract and the possibility of the letting 11 of that contract to a minority firm, really are 12 the direct result of the posture and attitude of 13 this mayor. I believe that he has set a tone 14 that would allow this kind of statement to be 15 made and anyone in 1994 who is sophisticated, 16 traveled, intelligent and well educated, knows, 17 in my opinion, without a doubt that saying that 18 one should "know the difference between a bid 19 and a watermelon," when the firm in question is 20 a female headed firm, African-American headed 21 firm, is speaking in a racist fashion. 22 Now, you say, Well, gee whiz, 23 maybe it wasn't racist, maybe the firm wasn't so 7860 1 good. There's an organization which rates these 2 firms which functions in the bond market and 3 P.G. Corbin happens to be the third rated firm 4 in the nation. In fact, they did 14 billion 5 dollars of work last year, so we're not talking 6 about someone who is slow and incompetent. 7 We're talking about a firm that knows how to do 8 the job, and it's unfortunate that this 9 happened, but the unfortunate occurrence does 10 not mitigate the damage nor the perception of 11 this administration, nor the pain and suffering 12 that people like myself feel when we are exposed 13 to this kind of behavior at the highest levels 14 of government. 15 I've worked too hard, put too 16 many hours and years with the Division of Human 17 Rights as a life member of the NAACP, and as a 18 person who's tried to be fair in all that I've 19 done in my public life, to be tolerant of such 20 behavior. 21 Despite my conversations with Mr. 22 Dyson, I find him not convincing of me and for 23 me that he did not make this statement with a 7861 1 racist tone. Heaven only knows what his true 2 intent was, but I'm not in a position to judge 3 in a heavenly manner. I can only judge as 4 someone who walks on this earth on a daily basis 5 and, in my opinion, his appointment to the MTA 6 is a mistake because the people who are strap 7 hangers, who come out of my district, would hold 8 me in high disrespect if I do not reflect their 9 feelings and their needs, their anger, their 10 disillusionment and their disappointment in this 11 administration and in someone who is part of 12 this administration who would make such a 13 reprehensible remark. 14 We should not be institutional 15 izing racism in 1994. We should be, in fact, 16 institutionalizing acceptance and equity for 17 all. There was no excuse for what John Dyson 18 said, in my opinion. There is no excuse for 19 what this mayor has done to keep minorities 20 out. We can not tolerate that. We will not 21 tolerate that. I will not tolerate that. 22 What my constituents want, my 23 dear colleagues, is justice, j-u-s-t-i-c-e, not 7862 1 just us, j-u-s-t u-s. I am compelled from a 2 moral perspective and more, to vote in the no on 3 Mr. Dyson's appointment to the MTA. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'll be 8 voting no for another reason and one which has 9 been documented. 10 I'd like to quote what Mayor 11 Giuliani said when he was a candidate before he 12 was elected mayor, and this is my -- my problem 13 with this appointment. 14 The quote is, "It's not my 15 intention to nominate members of my 16 administration, as outside citizens could bring 17 valuable perspectives to the decision-making 18 process," and he was talking about future MTA 19 nominees that he would make were he to become 20 mayor of the city. He went on to say, "They 21 should come from diverse backgrounds and will be 22 expected to be frequent users of mass transit 23 and advocates for the interest in the riding 7863 1 public," the feeling being that an independent 2 person, not part of the administration, would 3 not be beholden to any elected official, not do 4 that official's bidding, so to speak, and 5 therefore, could operate in a totally 6 independent manner. 7 It was felt that it was a mistake 8 in the Dinkins administration and in prior 9 administrations when people were appointed who 10 were members of the administration, to the MTA 11 Board, and in both those cases or several cases 12 in both administrations, the people who were 13 high level deputy mayors were not able to devote 14 the considerable amount of time that is 15 necessary to do a complete and competent job as 16 a member of the MTA Board. 17 The -- that is really the basis 18 of my disagreement with these -- this 19 appointment. There are many groups who feel 20 likewise that this is not a wise choice. 21 Already we have appointed one person as the 22 governor -- as the mayoralty appointment to the 23 MTA Board who is from the administration, and it 7864 1 would not be wise to continue to appoint only 2 administrative people. 3 It is also important, I think, to 4 have people who not only are not part of 5 government but are riders of the MTA, 6 Metro-North, the City Transit Authority, and the 7 Long Island Rail Road, and people who reflect 8 the diverse culture that is out there riding the 9 subways and the trains. 10 I think we should note the groups 11 who have sent in letters or memos in opposition 12 to this appointment because they are an inter 13 esting cross-section of environmental and 14 transit groups. We have the Environmental 15 Defense Fund, the Natural Resources Defense 16 Council, in Albany the Environmental Planning 17 Lobby. We have New York City Transit Authority 18 Advisory Council, the New York City 19 Environmental Justice Alliance, the Committee 20 for Better Transit, Transportation Alternatives, 21 Straphangers Campaign, and the advisory - 22 Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to the 23 MTA, and basically all of them object to the 7865 1 issue that I spoke to. 2 I'll be voting no. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mendez. 4 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 5 am going to support the nomination of Mr. Dyson 6 to the MT Board -- MTA Board. I am -- I have 7 had a discussion with him pertaining to the - 8 the phrases, the phrases, the unfortunate phrase 9 that was used that it's said that he did say 10 that phrase, and I made it very clear to the 11 gentleman that, as a member of a minority group, 12 we certainly cannot tolerate anybody making 13 disparaging remarks about any one of us, because 14 if we let that go unanswered, we would be 15 contributing to foster and reinforce existing 16 prejudice in our society about various groups, 17 African-Americans, Puerto Ricans, Italo 18 Americans, everybody. 19 So were it not because I -- I 20 know of his previous record. At the time that 21 he worked with state government in the 22 administration and the prior administration, he 23 was responsible for bringing aboard to serve 7866 1 from his Commerce Department, the first 2 African-American person serving on that high 3 level, and also the first Puerto Rican person 4 serving at that high level. So I personally 5 believe that he himself is not what we usually 6 call a racist. 7 If I would believe that, with the 8 same -- in the same manner in which I will be 9 voting for him, I would -- then I would not be 10 being supporting his candidacy. 11 I think that the unfortunate 12 situation that occurred with those words that 13 were uttered had to do with something that I am 14 very familiar with, as a Puerto Rican many times 15 I have seen how behavior that is engaged by 16 Puerto Ricans is oftentimes interpreted with 17 being the Anglo cultural milieu, and mis 18 understandings of interpretations do occur. Mr. 19 Dyson is a gentleman from upstate and definitely 20 there are some, let's say, cross-cultural - 21 there is room for some cross-cultural mis 22 understandings within the same Anglo culture in 23 terms of upstate New York and downstate New 7867 1 York. 2 I think that academically he's 3 superbly qualified for that. This unfortunate 4 incident -- out of this unfortunate incident 5 something positive has occurred, and that is 6 that there has been a continuous dialogue for a 7 couple of days with -- with minority Senators 8 meeting with him, and I think that out of being 9 introverted by nature, I think that out of all 10 that dialogue and everything else, better - 11 better understanding will occur. 12 He's intelligent enough to know 13 that New York City is a very diverse city and 14 that all that Minority members are asking for is 15 to go -- to function between a level playing 16 field, that is to help equal access to -- to 17 whatever opportunities there are there, so again 18 I -- I am supporting his candidacy. 19 I think his understanding and 20 sensitivity to all of us has been raised as a - 21 as a result of this situation. So I urge my 22 colleagues to support Mr. Dyson's nomination for 23 the MT Board -- the MTA Board. 7868 1 Thank you. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 5 my colleagues, the issue is not whether John 6 Dyson is a racist. I don't believe he's a 7 racist. The issue is that he made a totally 8 intolerable, insensitive statement and two or 9 three days after he made a statement which was 10 an affront not just to the African-American 11 community, it was an affront, I think, to every 12 decent New Yorker and most -- the overwhelming 13 number of New Yorkers are decent and care about 14 intergroup relations and don't want to see any 15 group in this state maligned by a high official, 16 and it is not sufficient for him to say 17 afterwards, Well, I'm sorry, which I gather he 18 really has not said, with any great conviction. 19 That doesn't sanitize it, because the issue here 20 is whether three days after he has made this 21 statement, the Senate of the state of New York 22 is going to give its imprimatur on him and say, 23 This is a person that we think is well qualified 7869 1 to serve on a very important state board. 2 I find it unbelievable that we 3 return to our constituents, whether it's in East 4 Harlem or in Riverdale, as I represent, or in 5 upstate New York and say, We disregarded the 6 statement made by this person. 7 SENATOR MENDEZ: Will the Senator 8 yield for a question? 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Certainly. 10 SENATOR MENDEZ: In your 11 enthusiasm, Senator Leichter, your enthusiasm 12 against the candidacy of Mr. -- Mr. Dyson, you 13 mention something that is very disturbing to me, 14 and I suppose that afterwards as good colleagues 15 that we are, we will straighten it out among 16 ourselves. 17 You mentioned that you 18 categorized those who support Mr. Dyson as being 19 sort of indecent New Yorkers, and those 20 supporting him, not supporting him, decent New 21 Yorkers. Would you clarify what exactly do you 22 mean by that? I mean this is a democracy, 23 Senator Leichter, and we are people who can 7870 1 decide on major issues and yes, maintain full 2 respect, especially among colleagues that we 3 have known for many, many years. 4 So would you clarify that 5 statement because definitely, Senator Leichter, 6 I have never in my life considered myself an in 7 decent New Yorker, and I really for me -- and I 8 love you -- it's very important to have a 9 clarification on that issue. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, the 11 clarification is very simple, Senator Mendez. I 12 suggest you read the record. I never used the 13 word "decent" or "indecent". Maybe you weren't 14 paying attention or something, and you will find 15 that I did not make that statement. 16 I happen to think it's wrong to 17 support his nomination, and if that makes you 18 uncomfortable I'm sorry, Senator. I just -- I'm 19 stating my opinion. I didn't say the word 20 "indecent". I said the only indecency, 21 Senator, are in the comments that Senator Dyson 22 made. 23 May I suggest, though, I'll get 7871 1 the transcript for you because that will relieve 2 your concern. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: No, I -- I 4 certainly appreciate, that's what I heard, but 5 again I want to say that I -- and you have 6 always been a gentleman on this floor, but I 7 merely want to say that the other question that 8 I want to ask of you is, if a person has a good 9 record all his or her life and makes one mistake 10 -- one mistake -- should that disregard the 11 record of many, many other years of service? 12 Should it? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, when 14 you - 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Especially if 16 the person has already been censured? 17 SENATOR GALIBER: Point of order, 18 Mr. President. I can't understand it. The 19 question is asked. Certainly he should have an 20 opportunity to answer the question because some 21 of us are concerned not only with the question 22 but the answer. 23 THE PRESIDENT: I don't 7872 1 understand the Senator's point of order, but as 2 I understand it, Senator Leichter has yielded to 3 Senator Mendez. 4 SENATOR GALIBER: Well, if 5 there's something you don't understand, Mr. 6 President, in all due respect I certainly will 7 attempt to clear up my observation and what I 8 was objecting to and ask for a point of order. 9 The question was being asked. 10 Without the question being fully completed, 11 there was an answer, and I don't think that's 12 quite fair to all of us, and it happens in 13 reverse, so in the sense and the spirit of 14 order, I'm asking that you as a presiding 15 officer, ask the person to let her finish the 16 question so we could have a complete question 17 and a complete answer. 18 THE PRESIDENT: I will try to 19 keep order and comity, and I will recognize 20 Senator Leichter. He has the floor. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 22 Senator Mendez, may I just 23 suggest if you - 7873 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: I do not -- I 2 was just about to ask him - 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mendez. 4 SENATOR MENDEZ: -- just a second 5 question, and that I didn't finish, Senator 6 Galiber said, and may I, Senator Leichter? 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator - 8 THE PRESIDENT: Does Senator 9 Leichter yield? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will yield 11 to my good colleague at any time, any place, 12 anywhere. 13 SENATOR MENDEZ: And the question 14 is, if a person has managed to have a good 15 record in his or her history of public service 16 and that person makes a mistake, should that 17 prior record be completely obliterated from the 18 matter and that person should be not allowed to 19 contribute any further for the benefit of the 20 citizens? That's the question. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. 22 Senator, I'm glad you asked that because that's 23 precisely the point that I'm trying to make that 7874 1 there are some statements, Senator, particularly 2 when they come from high public officials, that 3 are such an affront to public decency as this 4 statement was, to every New Yorker who cares 5 about intergroup relations, that to my mind it 6 disqualifies him certainly from three days later 7 ever being confirmed by the New York State 8 Senate. 9 Yes. Now, I would like to be 10 able to say that this was the only time that Mr. 11 Dyson has ever engaged in what is commonly 12 referred to as "hoof in the mouth disease." 13 Unfortunately, and we've known Mr. Dyson, this 14 is not the first instance. He, in January, made 15 a remark about two white men when he was up here 16 in Albany. I remember the time that he showed 17 up before Senator Marchi in the Finance 18 Committee dressed as the Lone Ranger, and so on, 19 but I'm not asking at this time that the mayor 20 fire him. 21 I'm not saying that he could 22 never hold public office. I'm just saying it 23 just seems very strange that three days after 7875 1 remarks that I can consider only horrendous, 2 horrendous, that the Senate of New York State 3 says this is the sort of person we will confirm 4 for the MTA. Maybe it's a confirmation if it 5 came a year from now and Senator -- I -- Senator 6 -- I don't know why I refer to him as "Senator 7 Dyson," if Mr. Dyson had shown that he can avoid 8 these sort of painful outbursts, maybe I would 9 feel somewhat differently, but I think at this 10 time, I find it strange that we would act on his 11 confirmation. 12 Let me just say that words - 13 words are important. Words cannot be erased. 14 You can't just sanitize this by saying, "I'm 15 sorry." It has particular meaning to me, maybe 16 as a Jew, and Jews are sometimes accused of 17 being -- well, we're too sensitive, but I think 18 our history gives us that right, and I can 19 understand also why African-Americans are 20 sensitive. 21 But the truth is that all of us 22 ought to be sensitive about words that are 23 hurtful and painful to a large group within this 7876 1 state. We need to bring the level of public 2 discourse on such a basis that we don't have 3 these sort of statements that create 4 divisiveness. I don't know what it says to 5 particularly African-Americans, but really to 6 all the people of the state of New York that the 7 Senate would say Dyson, after the remarks that 8 he made within this past week, is a person that 9 we consider qualified to serve on the board of 10 the MTA. 11 I certainly don't consider him 12 qualified, and I will vote against him. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maltese. 15 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 16 I support the nomination and before I, 17 especially considering the hour, go into just a 18 few remarks, I'd like to just point out at the 19 very time that my good colleague, Senator 20 Leichter, was casting aside if you will, or at 21 least diminishing the -- a lifelong record for a 22 remark -- for one single remark -- he himself at 23 that very time possibly was misinterpreted by my 7877 1 other good colleague, Senator Mendez, and I 2 don't know that a lot can be read into any 3 single remark, especially since Senator 4 Leichter, Mr. President, indicated that he felt 5 that Mr. Dyson was not a racist. 6 I rise simply because I've known 7 Mr. Dyson for many, many years. I do not, by 8 the way, because of this furor, I do not believe 9 in any -- by any stretch of the imagination that 10 he is a racist. I do know that, like all of us 11 from time to time and possibly more than some of 12 us, he would do an act that would arouse others 13 to a fever pitch -- the illustration made of the 14 Lone Ranger before my good colleague, Senator 15 Marchi. 16 At the same time, Mr. Dyson has 17 served as a Commissioner of Commerce for New 18 York; he has led the effort to rebuild Astoria 19 Film Studios. He has a multi-varied experience 20 as Commissioner of Agriculture, chairman of the 21 New York Power Authority. His academic 22 qualifications are superlative, but more than 23 just what's on paper, he brings -- he brings a 7878 1 fresh approach. He brings, I think, a street 2 wise approach despite being from upstate, 3 despite his background in Dutchess. I note that 4 his address is New York City, but it's more than 5 that. I think that he could best be described 6 as a "no bull" guy, not somebody that's going to 7 accept by rote anything that's said to him 8 without looking into it and questioning it in 9 the most positive way on behalf of the citizens 10 of New York. 11 Mr. President, this furor, I 12 concur with Senator Mendez. I think something 13 salutory has come out of it, the dialogue that 14 has been entered into by Mr. Dyson and the other 15 members of this chamber. I think that does have 16 a salutory purpose. I think especially that he 17 intends to continue that dialogue. I think the 18 approach probably will be a much more sensitive 19 one in the future. He's changed hats, and I 20 think he has worn many hats in the past, and I 21 think this is one he could wear with credit for 22 the people of the city, the people of the state 23 and for the Senate, I would -- I would be most 7879 1 pleased to second his nomination. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Mr. President, my reactions are a 6 little bit different than -- than what I've 7 heard because the remark which was first 8 addressed this evening by Senator Waldon is 9 something which has tried to be explained in 10 certain ways, and while obviously said in one 11 sense, very, very offensive. 12 There have been attempts by the 13 -- the sayer of the words, Mr. Dyson, to 14 explain them, and I will leave it at that 15 point. However, there was something that was 16 said by Mr. Dyson a few days before that which 17 there is really no question about, and that is 18 what causes me the greatest problem. 19 In the last number of years, I 20 don't know whether it's 10 years, 15 years, one 21 of the devisive theories in our society has been 22 the struggle on behalf of minorities to enter 23 into government service, businesses, grab 7880 1 opportunities, get opportunities, and their 2 fight against a word used against them, this 3 word "quota", are we setting quotas? Are we 4 opening opportunities? What is it all about? And 5 this is something where it has been a constant 6 fight. We want to open doors, and yet we're 7 always faced with this issue: Are we creating 8 quotas? 9 Before the watermelon incident, 10 Mr. Dyson reacted to statements made by the 11 elected comptroller of the city of New York and 12 when I picked up the newspapers that morning, 13 every newspaper said the same thing, that Mr. 14 Dyson was, in essence, accusing the comptroller 15 of involving himself in racial preferences. 16 Now, by using that phrase, right 17 away, right away, Mr. Dyson created a difficult 18 situation in the city of New York because, while 19 there are public officials who are trying to 20 open up the doors and make it possible for 21 qualified minorities to get into the act and 22 have a piece of the pie, the minute Mr. Dyson 23 made that reference, it had to be inflammatory 7881 1 to a lot of people in the city of New York who 2 don't like quotas and right away, what happened 3 to merit systems, et cetera, et cetera. 4 Unfortunately, for every one of 5 us, things can be going along very, very well, 6 and the Giuliani administration, by the way, I 7 didn't support the mayor, but I was the first to 8 hope that he would be successful, and indeed 9 some of the things that his administration has 10 done have been very, very good. 11 But if you go back to the 12 negative thinking about Mr. Giuliani and his 13 administration, people were there saying, well, 14 you wait and see, you know, you're still dealing 15 with the U.S. Attorney mentality and this and 16 that and, lo and behold, the one thing which 17 some people have been critical of during the 18 first months is a confrontational attitude which 19 pops up every now and then, so the comptroller 20 and so the public advocate has tasted that whip 21 from time to time and here is the elected 22 comptroller of the city of New York giving his 23 opinion on a public matter, and the response 7882 1 from a member of the administration is rhetoric 2 which has to cause problems among the citizens 3 of the city of New York. 4 Now, Alan Hevesi immediately 5 denied that his suggestions or ideas had 6 anything to do with racism, but Alan was fit to 7 be tied that in giving an opinion which might 8 vary from the opinion of the mayor's office, 9 that this kind of a vicious -- and that's what 10 it was -- attack would come. 11 Now, I have lived through a 12 Governor Rockefeller, with a -- an Arthur 13 Levitt, and they were not always in agreement, 14 but they had public dialogue; and I've lived 15 through a Comptroller Regan with a Governor 16 Carey and a Governor Cuomo, and they disagreed, 17 but the public rhetoric was what one might 18 expect. 19 I did not believe -- I can't 20 believe in my heart that John Dyson, who I know 21 as a racist or has any racist feelings, I cannot 22 believe that, but the fact of the matter is that 23 I don't think that we can afford in the city of 7883 1 New York having a spectacle between elected 2 public officials, so that whenever there's a 3 disagreement over whether the budget's in sync', 4 how the budget should be handled, how things 5 should be happening, the level of rhetoric 6 becomes non-intellectual, but insulting and that 7 is really not the way to go. 8 Now, I don't want to blame Mr. 9 Dyson for every member of the Giuliani 10 administration who has, at one point or another, 11 perhaps done that and, in all fairness to Mr. 12 Giuliani, I wish him a wonderful administration 13 because I live there. My children live there, 14 and it's good for us if he succeeds. That's 15 very self-evident. I think every New Yorker 16 should root for him, but you get an attitude 17 from the top, and I think that this kind of 18 thing should stop, and that is what offends me, 19 the concept of Mr. Dyson being the one who 20 started this kind of rhetoric, even before the 21 one remark. 22 Now, in terms of the comments by 23 my colleague, Senator Mendez, I think Senator 7884 1 Mendez' attitude is one of understanding and 2 compassion, and I understand that too, and 3 Senator Mendez asked my colleague, Senator 4 Leichter, if somebody makes a mistake, do you 5 hold it against him forever? And I think 6 certainly after the number of years I've voted 7 on this floor, on criminal justice issues and 8 every other kind of issue, I don't have to worry 9 about my credentials on giving somebody a second 10 chance and a break. 11 But what Senator Leichter said 12 becomes important because of one word, and that 13 is "perception". Now, we are in a business 14 where we don't have to make a certain amount of 15 widgets and see that they sell in the 16 marketplace. Nobody takes a look at the end of 17 the year what our bottom line is, but they do 18 look at what we do and they get a perception 19 from it, and I do agree with Senator Leichter, 20 absolutely. 21 If we were six, seven months down 22 the line, ten months down the line, everything 23 cools down, Mr. Dyson performed, that might be 7885 1 one thing. I think it would be a terrible 2 public perception to, within days of this kind 3 of aggravation of the public rhetoric in the 4 city of New York, to take this step and ignore 5 what has happened. 6 I'm not saying the man should be 7 condemned forever. I have not called for his 8 resignation and I think, as others have said, he 9 has done wonderful work for the state, and I'm 10 hoping for my children's sake as well as mine, 11 that he is a wonderful addition to the 12 administration. But that doesn't change the 13 fact that, if we confirm him tonight, because of 14 the proximity, that people in the city of New 15 York, my constituents and even people throughout 16 the state, will wonder about our sensitivity and 17 whether or not what has happened is something 18 which will be going over our heads. 19 So, Mr. Dyson, I wish you well in 20 the City administrations. I hope that you will 21 serve the people well, and I, as a citizen in 22 New York, will benefit. Maybe, but I think it 23 would be insensitivity on my part if I didn't 7886 1 refuse to confirm you at this point, and I will 2 vote against the nomination. **REPAIRED** 3 Montgomery. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 I rise to oppose the nomination 7 of Deputy Mayor John Dyson to the MTA board, and 8 the reason that I do is because -- not because I 9 don't believe for one moment that he is 10 certainly qualified and has the qualities of 11 public service, and a public servant that are a 12 desirable and good and will be very good for the 13 city eventually. 14 However, I think that one of - 15 the issue that has brought us to this point 16 which resulted in the deputy mayor using certain 17 inflammatory statements to describe a situation 18 was the fact that there is opposition, 19 apparently, on the part of the mayor of the city 20 of New York administration, expressed by the 21 deputy mayor to resist the inclusion of 22 minority- and women-owned businesses, to give 23 them an opportunity to participate fully in 7887 1 doing business with the city, and it is really 2 very, very frustrating and disappointing that we 3 have in 1994, a city that is so diverse and has 4 -- represents and reflects what is the new 5 world right here in our city, including the 6 United Nations located within the city of New 7 York, and we have an administration at the same 8 time that absolutely resists any recognition of 9 the kind of diversity and opposes and rejects 10 special considerations to make it possible for 11 all of the members of the city -- city politic 12 and city population to participate fully and 13 equally, and I would not be able to go back to 14 my district and explain to my constituents not 15 why the deputy mayor made racist remarks because 16 I think those remarks, I can name a number of 17 people inside this Legislature, outside the 18 Legislature, in cities across the state, who 19 have made worse remarks that the deputy mayor 20 made. 21 So I don't think that I have to 22 explain to my constituents why he made those 23 remarks. I think it was a mistake and I believe 7888 1 and I hope that he does not make the same 2 mistake again, but I cannot explain that I would 3 vote for the appointment of someone to the MTA 4 where there will be huge contracts, huge 5 opportunities to do business with the city, and 6 we have someone there that I voted for to be 7 there who resists and rejects opening the doors 8 for every one of my constituents who might be 9 eligible and willing and desiring to do business 10 with the city, and especially with the MTA, and 11 those opportunities would be closed off because 12 the administration, speaking through Deputy 13 Mayor Dyson, resists that happening. 14 So, my vote is in the negative, 15 and I hope that this message goes back to our 16 mayor because he is the mayor of all of us, and 17 I want him to know that this is not the time for 18 his voice to reflect a resistance to inclusion 19 that comes through many other voices that are 20 not our mayor. We don't want our mayor to 21 reflect that and to represent that. 22 So my vote is in the negative. 23 I'm very sorry that I have to do that, but I 7889 1 think that I have to go back and say to my 2 constituents that I voted against the exclusion 3 of people that I represent. 4 Thank you. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 may I interrupt for just a moment and announce 8 an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 9 Room 332? 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 11 Ohrenstein. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Senator 15 Present, we have been, as you know, trying to 16 run more than one thing at once, but I know 17 there are a member of Rules Committee who are 18 involved in this, and do you think we could hold 19 it for a short time, not a long time, but a 20 short time? I don't think -- thank you very 21 much. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize so 23 everybody can be thinking. We will have after 7890 1 the rules meeting a finance meeting, so we'll be 2 able to - 3 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I'm sure 4 everyone is going to be mentally prepared for 5 these very two important meetings because 6 they're going to think about it during all the 7 time that I'm up on my feet. 8 Mr. President, I rise to support 9 this nomination, and I want to make something 10 very clear at the outset. I'm speaking for my 11 self. I'm not speaking for the Democratic party 12 in this instance. We have not conferenced this 13 matter, and every member of this Minority has 14 the absolute right and as they do and have 15 already taken advantage of to express their own 16 opinion and to vote the way they please. I 17 speak for myself personally. 18 I regret the remarks that were 19 made by Mr. Dyson which have sparked this 20 controversy. I'm not going to go into 21 dissecting when the remarks were made, how they 22 were made, and what context they were made. I 23 think that will lead us down very idle paths. 7891 1 The remarks in the public domain are 2 regrettable, because they stir up racial stereo 3 types and racial accusations which have no place 4 in our dialogue. 5 Mr. Dyson has apologized for 6 those remarks. He's come here, and for the last 7 two days has taken a great deal of pains and 8 trouble to talk to members of this house 9 respectfully, without trying to bend anybody's 10 arms or pushing anybody politically, and has 11 indicated he was -- he regretted that he made 12 the remarks. He has said that he did not, 13 perhaps understand the full meaning of the term 14 that he used. 15 To me, that's enough, and it's 16 enough for me because I know John Dyson for 20 17 years, and I know John Dyson is not a racist, is 18 not interested in racial confrontation, has 19 never engaged in it and has been a very fine 20 public servant. So, to me as regrettable as 21 this incident is, and as much as I feel for some 22 of the reaction in the public and amongst my 23 colleagues, and I respect their reaction, and I 7892 1 honor that, and I respect their vote and their 2 conclusion on this matter. 3 I would not respect myself if I 4 was to vote against Mr. Dyson for these remarks 5 alone because of the fact that I know him, and I 6 know him very well, and I know the kind of 7 person he is. So for me, while this whole 8 incident is regrettable, and in some ways 9 embarrassing, I cannot allow myself to be swayed 10 by it particularly because he has -- as a decent 11 man that he is, has taking enormous trouble and 12 patience and has been willing to accept the 13 criticism head to head by many members of this 14 body and others outside of it. 15 So, as far as I'm concerned, I 16 cannot take it into consideration and to my 17 consideration in evaluating him and his life, 18 and to me -- and I respect Senator Leichter's 19 conclusion. To me, I cannot hold this 20 particular incident against him and then hold 21 him up to public obloquy and say, "one strike 22 and you're out." We even are debating here 23 proposition of three strikes and you're out, so 7893 1 I can't accept that proposition. 2 I want to make one other comment 3 on my colleague, Senator Gold's very important 4 observation on the question of the 5 confrontational nature of some of the dialogue 6 that's happening in the city of New York, and I 7 respect that as well. I think Manny Gold makes 8 an excellent point. I think there has been a 9 little bit too much confrontation. It hasn't 10 all come from the Giuliani administration. It 11 sometimes come from other quarters as well, but 12 I have lived by one credo, one of many credos, 13 but one I remember when I was a very young man, 14 I was always interested in reading history and I 15 read Winston Churchill's books on the second 16 World War which were a magnificent statement by 17 a magnificent public offical, not always 18 accurate but a great statement, and one of his 19 mottos was "in war, determination; in victory, 20 patience - 21 SENATOR GOLD: In victory, 22 magnanimity. 23 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: -- in 7894 1 victory, magnanimity." You're correct. And so 2 I think when you've one and you've achieved the 3 power, you can afford to be magnanimous, and I 4 have pointed that out. I like Manny Gold, 5 support what the mayor is trying to do. I 6 didn't vote for him. I didn't campaign for him, 7 but I want him to succeed because I want the 8 city to succeed, but I have advised him and some 9 members of his administration that if they lower 10 the rhetoric a little bit, it might help 11 everyone, but with respect to the conclusion 12 that Senator Gold draws, again, I disagree 13 because my conclusion is, I don't believe it's 14 fair to make this vote a referendum on the 15 Giuliani administration. I think that 16 referendum take place every day and the way we 17 dialogue, and so on, and so forth, and 18 ultimately will play itself out at the ballot 19 box. 20 Now, I want to talk about the 21 reasons why I support this nomination. Again, I 22 find myself in some disagreement with my good 23 friend, Senator Oppenheimer, who says -- who's 7895 1 very distrubed by the fact that too many members 2 of the city administration -- and I assume the 3 state administration because the Governor has 4 appointments, some of which are state offical - 5 too many of these state or city officials are 6 being appointed. Well, I -- doesn't disturb 7 me. Oh, there she is. I didn't see her. It 8 doesn't disturb me because the MTA is not an 9 unguided missle. The MTA is a very important 10 agency which affects the lives of millions of 11 people and I must tell you, I have not been 12 happy with the way they have conducted 13 themselves over the last few years, and I think 14 we need some strong voices on that board. They 15 maybe controversial voices. They may not always 16 agree and we may not always agree with them, but 17 I would like some strong people on that board 18 who have experience and who have thought through 19 the very complicated transportation issues that 20 we face here every day and every year. 21 That's why I supported Abe 22 Lackman. I don't know how many times I've 23 agreed with Abe Lackman when he was a member of 7896 1 the Senate -- of the Majority of the Senate 2 Finance Committee, but I know he knows his 3 business and I know he knows the issue, and I 4 may not agree with him half the time when he 5 votes on the MTA board but I know what he's 6 doing and his point of view deserves to be 7 expressed, and above all, the mayor of the city 8 of New York has the right to have people who 9 share his point of view on that board, which 10 brings - 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 12 President. 13 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Sure. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: May I be 15 recognized? 16 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Senator 17 Oppenheimer would like me to yield. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. Would 19 the good Senator please yield for a question? 20 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Sure. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would you 22 yield for a question? Are you aware that the 23 reasons behind the various organizations that 7897 1 submitted statements opposing this nomination 2 was for the opposite reason that you're giving? 3 You're saying - 4 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: I'm fully 5 aware. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: -- that 7 their strength in having members of the 8 immediate administration involved in the MTA 9 board decisions. They say that over the past 10 many years where deputy mayors have been 11 appointed, they have not shown up at meetings. 12 They are not at all participating in the 13 decisions of the MTA board. Perhaps they could 14 be strong decision-makers if they did not have 15 so many other responsibilities that deterred 16 them from participating in board decisions. 17 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: Well, 18 Senator Oppenheimer, I'm glad you asked the 19 question. It's a very good question. I think 20 if a mayor appoints a deputy mayor or a budget 21 director on the MTA board and they don't show 22 up, that mayor ought to be held accountable, and 23 if Mayor Dinkins' people didn't show up, then he 7898 1 ought to be willing to explain that, and I would 2 say the same thing about the Governor. If the 3 Governor was to appoint some state officials, 4 the Transportation commissioners and others and 5 they didn't show up, they would be held 6 accountable but it is not -- and they should be 7 held accountable politically, but it is not a 8 reason to prohibit them from doing it. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 10 SENATOR OHRENSTEIN: That brings 11 me to, I hope the final point. We are here in a 12 position of advice and consent. That's our 13 position, and that has a long checkered 14 history. We have been through it in the United 15 States Senate on the Supreme Court as to what 16 standards should be applied, whether it is the 17 standard this Senator who votes on it, whether 18 he agrees or disagrees with the individual or 19 whether the primary -- the primary guideline is 20 the judgment of the appointing authority. 21 My belief is this particular 22 appointment by law is advised and consented to 23 as an appointment by the mayor of the city of 7899 1 New York. I believe the mayor has a right for 2 us to judge the qualifications of the individual 3 if we found that he's -- he's appointed some yo 4 yo, we have a right to reject it, but if the 5 person is competent and the fact that we 6 disagree with that person does not necessarily 7 mean we have a right to disagree with it or 8 defeat it, and that's the way I feel about this 9 particular situation. 10 I said the other day when Abe 11 Lackman was on -- on the floor here or was being 12 nominated that I was shocked by the way the Long 13 Island Rail Road negotiations were being 14 conducted, and that in the end, it was a 15 dispute, a very -- dispute of a very small 16 nature, an important one. I have absolute 17 respect for Mr. Stangle's ability to raise the 18 question of work rules or other items like this 19 in the negotiation, but in the end, a public 20 offical has to make a judgment on what basis are 21 you going to hold millions of people hostage in 22 terms of their ability to go to work, and I 23 think he made a bad judgment. Unfortunately, it 7900 1 was not the first time I have seen that kind of 2 stubbornness and blinded -- blindfolded zeroing 3 in on one issue rather than having the ability 4 as the chief executive of an extraordinarily 5 important agency with a great deal of influence 6 and power on the lives of ten of millions of 7 people in the metropolitan region, and so I 8 believe John Dyson has the kind of independence, 9 the kind of knowledge, the kind of experience to 10 deal with that kind of blindness which I believe 11 exists now in the Metropolitan Transit 12 Authority. 13 So, this is very complicated. 14 There are these considerations which I put 15 before you respectfully. I am upset and 16 distrubed by the incident which brought us to 17 this particular situation. I wish it hadn't 18 occurred. I don't think anybody is more sorry 19 for the fact that it did occur than is John 20 Dyson, and I'm sure it if he could take it back 21 and change that particular combination of words, 22 he would do it in a minute, but it doesn't 23 diminish him as a public service or as a human 7901 1 being and it certainly doesn't make him a 2 racist, and it's for those reasons that I 3 respectfully submit to you he should be 4 confirmed. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stavisky. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: One of the 7 advantages and, perhaps disadvantages of service 8 over a period of years in state government is 9 the ability to recall other incidents that have 10 arisen in the history of this state. 11 John Dyson, in my opinion, is one 12 of the ablist, most intelligent individuals to 13 serve in government, and I say that at the very 14 beginning. Therefore, it becomes even more 15 inexcusable to find him using that talent in 16 perhaps the most pejorative manner. 17 I remember John Dyson as Commerce 18 Commissioner, I think with Governor Carey, and 19 there was a very fine Environmental Conservation 20 Commissioner by the name of Peter Burley, and 21 Burley's jurisdiction was the environment and 22 conservation and John Dyson was the economic 23 commerce spokesperson for the Governor. 7902 1 Repeatedly, John Dyson became embroiled, not in 2 the issues of his agency, but in the issues most 3 affecting Peter Burley. In an agrumentative, 4 pejorative manner, that caused two departments 5 of state government to be at each others 6 throats, and that's strike one in my opinion. 7 That's the reason why so many environmental 8 groups are asking us to oppose John Dyson's 9 confirmation here at this time. 10 I remember John Dyson also 11 becoming involved in the Commissioner of 12 Education's area of responsibility as though 13 from his vantage point he had a better 14 understanding, Mr. Dyson felt he had a better 15 understanding of what was needed in the field of 16 education than the Education Commissioner of the 17 state of New York. Again, did he this as the 18 Commerce Commissioner, and I believe again 19 demonstrated the pejorative nature, his 20 willingness to attack rather than to reason. 21 In our society we have too many 22 people attacking each other. We have too many 23 groups fighting with each other. This society 7903 1 needs healers, people who will be bringing other 2 people together in a common consensus and a 3 resolution of problems, and I find repeatedly 4 Mr. Dyson's career the exact opposite. 5 He began to put his photograph on 6 announcements concerning the state of New York, 7 and somebody says, "Hey, John, you're not 8 running for the United States Senate any 9 longer. Why does your photograph have to 10 appear?" And so this very intelligent 11 individual embarrassed himself; he didn't 12 embarrass the Senate Finance Committee or the 13 Assembly Ways and Means Committee. He put on a 14 Lone Ranger outfit and he said "I'll put on a 15 mask so I will not be accused of having my 16 photograph all over the state of New York." 17 Again, childish, pejorative, not worthy of a 18 state commissioner and not worthy of our support 19 after this latest and temperate outburst 20 directed against Alan Havesi who maybe will gain 21 more experience in the field of comptroller of 22 the city of New York, but I'm not sure that My 23 Ty... Mr. Dyson -- sometimes I think he's 7904 1 Tyson, he wants to battle with everybody. 2 Sometimes I find Mr. Dyson deciding that he is 3 the arbiter of everybody else's service in 4 government. 5 I have reason to believe that his 6 confirmation would be a disaster for those 7 legislators in Queens County, and I'm surprised 8 that one of my colleagues spoke in favor of the 9 confirmation. Many of us voted for the MTA's 10 capital budget, its capital plan with an 11 expenditure of $9.6 billion, I believe was the 12 amount, a commitment with the understanding that 13 the suburbs and the central city would all be 14 sharing in some of the benefits of that 15 commitment. 16 We were defrauded because while 17 we did the right thing in providing the funding 18 for the MTA's capital program, its five-year 19 plan, the city of New York, the previous mayor 20 and this mayor have yet to provide the city's 21 contribution for the improvement of the New York 22 City Transit system, buses and subways. I have 23 represented constituents who will travel on two 7905 1 crowded subway lines, standing all the way. 2 From downtown Manhattan, for example, they'll 3 stand all the way to Times Square on the 4 Lexington Avenue line or the number 7 -- the 7th 5 Avenue line, and then at Times Square or Grand 6 Central Station, they will switch onto the 7 number 7 line of the IRT, and they will stand 8 all the way on that line as well, and they will 9 arrive exhausted, totally exhausted after a trip 10 of that duration, and then they will try to get 11 off at the last stop because their journey is 12 not over. They will have to arrive at the Main 13 Street/Roosevelt Avenue location, one of the 14 most dangerous, busiest subway locations in the 15 city of New York, 40,000 people a day, and they 16 will have to walk up narrow, dangerous stairs 17 passing through a narrow, dangerous subway 18 platform, two and a half stories to the street 19 level, and that was something that could have 20 been corrected and was scheduled to be corrected 21 with a rehabilitation program for the Flushing 22 IRT subway line. That has not been done because 23 the city has not made its contribution. 7906 1 I ask you, how will Mr. Dyson, 2 Deputy Mayor Dyson come as a free agent when his 3 mayor to whom he has to report has not provided 4 the funding for the city's contribution? Would 5 anyone expect that the deputy mayor serving on 6 the MTA board will argue with the man who 7 recommended his appointment, for whom he works, 8 the mayor of the city of New York, and I 9 maintain that Deputy Mayor Dyson as an MTA board 10 member will be locked into a position of having 11 to sustain the mayor's refusal to provide city 12 funds for the rehabilitation of rapid transit 13 service in the city of New York. 14 Those people now that they 15 climbed the two and a half stories to the 16 street, are not home yet. They will wait on the 17 line for buses, about 30 bus lines, criss-cross 18 that one area, and they'll wait on line and 19 they'll have to stand on the buses, and Deputy 20 Mayor/MTA board member/ambasssador for business, 21 since we are now giving now titles, will be the 22 same individual beholden to the same mayor who 23 has not provided city funds to implement what we 7907 1 did in the MTA capital program. 2 It's a rotten idea to have too 3 many people who hold other positions serving 4 where there is a possibility of a conflict of 5 interest, and I believe there is a possibility 6 of a conflict of interest here because the 7 deputy mayor serving for a mayor who is not 8 funding rapid transit in the city of New York is 9 a captive, not an menial servant because he's 10 too intelligent to be that, but a captive of a 11 person who appointed him, and he will either 12 have to serve as an MTA board member at variance 13 with his employer, the mayor of the city of New 14 York, or find himself in a dreadful conflict of 15 interest. 16 The constituents for all of us, 17 our constituents, and by the same token, the 18 mayor's constituents need proper subway and bus 19 service in the city of New York and we will not 20 get it if too many people in lock step with an 21 administration at City Hall that is not funding 22 rapid transit is now providing an additional 23 voice and an additional vote on the MTA board. 7908 1 For these reasons, apart from the 2 pejorative nature of the latest outburst, I find 3 myself unwilling to support this confirmation. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Smith. 5 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 It's now the ninth inning and 8 this particular game is almost over. Some of my 9 colleagues talked about one strike and one 10 remark, but I seem to remember more remarks than 11 that. 12 I remember the headlines about 13 the two white men who ran the city of New York 14 which on first blush, did not seem to be racist 15 but it was. 16 I remember another incident when 17 they talked about the mayor of the city of New 18 York moving around the city and going to 19 different places, and the remark was, "every 20 place except Harlem." Maybe that wasn't 21 considered racist, but some of us who come from 22 the valley of Harlem tended to think it was 23 discriminatory. I think that was strike two. 7909 1 And the remarks of the last week 2 certainly were racist, and even though some of 3 us have received what is supposed to be an 4 apology, I still haven't been able to find in my 5 heart that it was an apology. 6 I certainly believe that this man 7 is an intelligent person. I'm calling this the 8 third strike for this game, but in all 9 championships and in all world series, there's 10 more than one game, and I hope that John Dyson 11 will learn from this game and return to win 12 another game in this world series. 13 I may rule him out today and 14 hopefully, I will have the opportunity to vote 15 for him at another time. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Levy. 17 SENATOR LEVY: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. 19 When I read the comments in the 20 press attributed to Mr. Dyson as it related to 21 the statements he made to the bond buyer, I want 22 you to know that my reaction to those remarks 23 was that the remarks were thoughtless, they were 7910 1 insensitive, they were so insensitive that they 2 evoked a response of repugnancy in the widest 3 spectrum of persons, and they cause pain and 4 they cause polarization. 5 In looking back at the events 6 subsequent to the press reports of those 7 statements -- and we've talked about some of 8 them tonight, but I would like to just review 9 them and add to them. 10 Last Thursday, with the mayor, 11 Mr. Dyson had a press conference and he 12 apologized publicly for those remarks, and he 13 explained them. 14 Friday here in Albany as we have 15 heard at the nominee's request and graciously, 16 Senator Galiber convened a meeting of at least 17 six Senators on that side of the aisle, and Mr. 18 Dyson met with the group. He explained -- I am 19 told. I was not there. He explained and he 20 apologized. 21 As Senator Waldon has told us, he 22 met with Senator Waldon twice and apologized, 23 and last night at the meeting of the Senate 7911 1 Transportation Committee -- and there was a wide 2 representation of press when we considered his 3 nomination, he again explained his remarks. He 4 again apologized publicly, and I asked him, I 5 said to him, "John, what have you learned from 6 this incident"? And I believed him when he said 7 that he had learned, that it was a painful 8 experience for him, he had learned painfully 9 from the incident and importantly, he said that 10 he understood the pain that his remarks had 11 created. 12 Last night, though, Senator 13 Paterson was not a member of our committee. He 14 came down to the meeting to listen to the 15 dialogue and discussion with Mr. Dyson, and we 16 certainly invited Senator Paterson to join with 17 us as a part of the members of the committee who 18 were meeting with and talking to Mr. Dyson, and 19 it was one of many things that Senator Paterson 20 said that -- that has been left with me. 21 At one point, Senator Paterson 22 said to Mr. Dyson, that many of us, if not all 23 of us have made statements during our careers. 7912 1 They certainly were not statements like the one 2 -- the one attributed to Mr. Dyson, but had 3 made statements during our careers that we 4 regret, all of us, that we regret, and wish that 5 we could take back. Let me just move from the 6 incident to talk -- as the chair of the 7 committee to talk about Mr. Dyson's 8 qualifications. 9 I believe from having observed 10 him that he has really an extraordinary 11 demonstrated ability. He has an outstanding 12 record of a success, not only in government, but 13 in the business sector. He has served as we 14 have heard tonight with distinction as the 15 Commissioner of Agriculture, the Commissioner of 16 Commerce under both -- under both Governor Carey 17 and Governor Cuomo, and as the head of the Power 18 Authority, under Governor Cuomo. 19 I have to tell you as the chair 20 of the committee with an oversight 21 responsibility and jurisdiction over the MTA, 22 that I believe that Mr. Dyson has the 23 qualifications. I believe he has the 7913 1 experience. I believe he has the ability. I 2 believe he has the experience and expertise, and 3 I believe that he will be a strong -- and I was 4 the one that had the conversations with the 5 mayors in the Koch administration. I was the 6 one that had the conversation with the deputy 7 mayors in the Dinkins administration, and I want 8 you to know that I believe that John Dyson, if 9 confirmed by the Senate, will be a strong and a 10 fully participating member of the Metropolitan 11 Transportation Authority, notwithstanding what 12 other men and women who have represented the 13 city and served on that board have done as it 14 relates to a level of participation, and I 15 support Mr. Dyson's nomination and I intend to 16 vote for him. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Would Senator 18 Levy yield for a question? 19 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator Levy, 21 I accept everything that you've said with regard 22 to Mr. Dyson's qualifications, but do you 23 believe that Mr. Dyson would part company with 7914 1 the mayor of city of New York on the issue of 2 putting additional city funds in for rapid 3 transit services and facilities in New York 4 City? Do you believe he will be able to part 5 company with the mayor on that issue? 6 SENATOR LEVY: Mr. Dyson is not 7 there as -- assuming now he's confirmed, he is 8 not there as an appointee of the Governor. He 9 is there as an appointee of the mayor, and I 10 believe that he will, on that board, reflect the 11 policies of the mayor and he will advance the 12 interests of the city of New York as well as the 13 region as a member of that -- of that board. He 14 is the mayor's appointee, and I think that we 15 all would be naive to believe that if we did not 16 have an appointee of a governmental offical, 17 that we might not have a situation where someone 18 was appointed by the mayor or appointed by the 19 Governor or appointed by one of the county 20 executives where there would be a matter of 21 interest to the county or to the state where the 22 Governor or the county executive or the mayor 23 would not make known to that nominee what that 7915 1 chief elected offical believed to be the 2 interests of the county, the city or the state, 3 and that that nominee would very well reflect 4 the policy of the person that appointed him or 5 her to the board. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Saland. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 My colleagues, I rise in support 10 of the nomination of John Dyson. I've listened 11 to, I believe virtually everything that has been 12 said by my colleagues during the course of this 13 -- the debate, and I would like to, if I might, 14 come back to the comments of Senator Ohrenstein 15 a bit earlier, and I think in part what we're 16 seeing here is really two levels of dialogue, 17 one dealing truly with things philosophical, the 18 nature of the advice and consent function of 19 this chamber, and others -- other comments going 20 to the political process itself, and I certainly 21 am not as qualified as many of my colleagues who 22 happen to represent portions of the city to 23 discuss those particular political issues, but 7916 1 let me dwell, if I might, on the advice and 2 consent portion. I have been called on numerous 3 occasions to consider gubernatorial nominations, 4 and I must tell you that, were I to view the 5 candidates from a philosophical perspective 6 where I had philosophical clashes with those 7 candidates, there would probably be a goodly 8 number of instances in which I would have be - 9 felt compelled to cast my vote in opposition to 10 that candidate. 11 That, however, is not the 12 standard which I feel that I must use. The 13 Governor is the chief executive of this state. 14 He has the ability to make appointments, and 15 when I look at those appointments, I look in 16 terms of competence, perhaps would consider 17 questions of moral turpitude if they were 18 relevant, and I think with one or two exceptions 19 where I thought issues of competence came down 20 against the prospective nominee, I have 21 continuously cast votes in favor even where I 22 had deep philosophical questions with regard to 23 the prospective nominee. 7917 1 John Dyson has made comments or 2 made a comment which given its worst possible 3 application to -- to -- just given its worst 4 possible application, certainly would at the 5 very least be considered insensitive. He 6 apparently has reached out to not only members 7 of the committee but members of the Black 8 Conference or Black Caucus, and has endeavored, 9 I think, to try and make a good faith effort to, 10 as sincerely as he can, apologize. 11 My concern is that if it becomes 12 a personality issue, than each and every nominee 13 must be considered as a personality issue, and 14 we've seen what has happened on the federal 15 level when that has occurred. I'm not aware 16 that that's the standard we've used here, nor do 17 I believe that is the standard which we should 18 use. I know John Dyson, certainly not as well 19 or as intimately as many people in this chamber. 20 Certainly can't say I've know him, as I've said, 21 as Senator Ohrenstein for some 20 years, but I 22 know his family and members of his family for a 23 number of years and they have certainly pillars 7918 1 of the community where -- within my district. 2 John Dyson has for three decades 3 served admirably in every capacity that he has 4 been asked to serve in. He has served two 5 governors with distinction. There may have been 6 times when the manner of his service may have 7 been troublesome to some in terms of personality 8 or delivery, but I'm not aware of anybody 9 anywhere who could say that he did not serve and 10 serve well. 11 When I look as a member or 12 resident of the MTA district in Dutchess County, 13 when I look to him as a prospective appointment, 14 I look at that resume and I say that I derive 15 great comfort from having that caliber of an 16 invidivual serving on that board. 17 Here's a man who was the chief 18 player for another major authority. Here's a 19 man who has served a cross section of 20 appointments and again, served very well. 21 If you look to intellect, if you 22 took to integrity, if you look to ability, if 23 you look to commitment to public service, there 7919 1 are very few prospective appointees who are more 2 worthy of your support. We're not being asked 3 to judge personalities. We're not being asked 4 to base our decision based on -- injudicious or 5 insensitive -- an injudicious or insensitive 6 comment. We're being asked to determine today 7 whether the Chief Executive of the city of New 8 York has put forth a candidate to fill a 9 position on the MTA board, whether that person 10 meets the standards in terms of competence and 11 ability to do that job, and I think that that is 12 the standard by which we measure as we measure 13 time and again, dozens and dozens of people who 14 we are asked to confirm, than the answer is an 15 obvious "yes". 16 And it is with great pleasure 17 that I again say I will support this man's 18 nomination because I know that he will do the 19 kind of job that will do well by the MTA and by 20 everybody within that district. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Connor. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 7920 1 President. 2 Mr. President, I have listened to 3 the prior speakers, and some of them, including 4 Senator Ohrenstein talked about how they thought 5 that Mr. Dyson would do a very good job at the 6 MTA and, perhaps cure some of the things that 7 ail it, but if there's one thing I've learned, 8 it's, there's more to government in politics, 9 there's more to life than making the railroads 10 run on time, and it's our job when we confirm 11 someone to look into the whole question. 12 Certainly, we don't second guess the appointing 13 authority when it -- as to matters of policy, I 14 agree with that, but in life and politics, 15 everything is timing, and the timing is very, 16 very bad for Mr. Dyson, in my opinion, and it's 17 not just one remark a few days ago, as others 18 have mentioned. 19 I was quite distrubed that the 20 two white men running the city of New York for 21 200 years remark some time back left me shaking 22 my head, willing to say, "well, maybe it was 23 poor choice of words or a poor way of phrasing 7921 1 things" or a little flip, willing to give 2 somebody the benefit of the doubt which we all 3 do, but then the attack on the comptroller and 4 the use of the word racial preferences and - 5 again, was inflammatory, as Senator Gold pointed 6 out, and now we have the remark about the bid in 7 the watermelon. Enough is enough, Mr. 8 President. This is a very fresh remark. It's 9 in the public consciousness. It's probably one 10 of the last things a lot of people read in the 11 newspapers because I think we get up here, we 12 forget we're in the middle of a holiday 13 weekend. People read the newspapers on Thursday 14 and Friday, they took off to enjoy their holiday 15 weekend, so it's very fresh in the public's 16 mind, and we get into a lot lately about 17 condemning people, condemning remarks, demands 18 to condemn this one or that one. I sort of have 19 a rule. I don't condemn people but I condemn 20 remarks that I find offensive or hateful or 21 insensitive, and we all talk about it. We've 22 seen a spectrum across this country of people 23 who are at the very least insensitive, some go 7922 1 far beyond that with the kind of charges and the 2 kinds of rhetoric they use to inflame people and 3 -- one group against another, but 4 insenstitivity counts, and it certainly counts 5 in public life. 6 We're not talking about a shock 7 jock on the radio. We're talking about the 8 Deputy mayor of the city of New York. We're 9 talking about someone who's been in government 10 for many, many years, and in the very same week 11 that he hits the newspapers with a remark that 12 many, many people find offensive, we are called 13 upon to confirm him to the MTA board, a very, 14 very powerful governmental institution in our 15 state, and also he's on the list to be confirmed 16 as a trustee of one of the finest educational 17 institutions in the country, the board of 18 Cornell University. That's also before us. 19 What kind of message do we send to the public as 20 they come back on Tuesday from their long 21 holiday weekend still fresh in their minds the 22 last time they bothered to watch the news or 23 read the newspapers, Dyson was in the paper 7923 1 about his remark about the watermelon, and they 2 see in Tuesday, John Dyson has now been twice 3 confirmed by the New York State Senate, before 4 the ink was dry in the newspapers, reporting his 5 remarks of last week. 6 Now, I don't condemn John Dyson. 7 I condemn his insensitivity in these instances. 8 I wouldn't rule him out for confirming to 9 anything for all time. I believe in redemption, 10 particularly for people in public life. It's 11 happened. We have seen it happened. We know it 12 can happen, but I also believe that you need 13 time. You need time between some instance like 14 this and a pat on the back for John Dyson. Lest 15 we send the wrong message, that wrong message 16 being that we, the New York State Senate, don't 17 care or aren't that concerned about remarks that 18 are so insensitive, and I appreciate the effort 19 Mr. Dyson has made in the last two days to 20 apologize, explain, come up here and meet with 21 people but, come on, he was on the list for 22 confirmation. If he didn't come up here for the 23 last two days, if he didn't try and explain and 7924 1 meet with people, would we even be here with 2 this on the floor? I doubt that and, I mean, 3 I'm not saying he did the wrong thing in coming 4 up here. It was the only thing he could do, the 5 only thing he could do, but there's not enough 6 time. There's not enough time to let it 7 settle. There's not enough time to make sure 8 there won't be recurrences of such 9 insensitivity. There's not enough time to let 10 his actions speak louder than his words, and 11 that's very important. 12 And, you know, the one thing that 13 sort of came out of discussions with Mr. Dyson 14 in the last day or two is, he will be the 15 mayor's representative on the MTA board. He 16 will carry the mayor's message. He will advance 17 the mayor's policies. Hey, he's supposed to. 18 He's a deputy mayor. He's an appointee, whether 19 it's to the MTA board or as deputy mayor, and 20 it's clear where the mayor's administration 21 seems to be coming down with respect to things 22 like affirmative action, minority business, 23 enterprise,-set-asides and out-reach, and it's 7925 1 not for us here to redo last years mayoral 2 election. The mayor's entitled to his 3 policies. Of the mayor is -- you know, he won 4 the election, and we can't expect John Dyson to 5 be other than the mayor's representative to 6 carry out the mayor's policies, and it's clear 7 to me that some of those policies or important 8 -- or a component of those policies are to take 9 a dim view and not be in favor of those kinds of 10 affirmative action programs, that we here in 11 Albany in the Legislature have made with respect 12 to very large -- time and again, the very large 13 capital programs the public policy of this 14 state. 15 The MTA is always in the process 16 of spending billions -- I forget how many they 17 have on the table, 7-, 8-, $9 billion - 18 billions of dollars that they're going to spend 19 in renovations, capital acquisitions, repairs, 20 and so on. 21 To put someone on that board to 22 represent a view point, the mayor's view point 23 that the MTA shouldn't pursue the kinds of set 7926 1 asides and minority business out-reach that it 2 has, that we have mandated it in many cases to 3 have concerns me, but it's the mayor's call. I 4 think it would be a grave mistake for us to 5 confirm someone to that board to carry out or 6 advance those policies, and the mayor's 7 appointees won't control the board but they'll 8 certainly make noise about those policies. It 9 would be a grave mistake for us to confirm 10 someone to that kind of position who is bona 11 fides on the issue could be clouded by these 12 insensitive remarks. It won't help the public 13 discourse. It will make people in New York City 14 think that, "Aha, there he is." He's against 15 this program or that program and the spending of 16 this money, and they will relate it back to 17 these very insensitive remarks. I think we have 18 to cut that off. If we have to take the mayor's 19 appointee who would do other than many of us 20 would do with respect to those kind of programs, 21 let's at least take someone who is not carrying 22 the baggage of such insensitive remarks. I 23 think we owe the public that, and I think under 7927 1 the circumstances, I believe there is no way I 2 can vote this week or any time in the near 3 future to put John Dyson on MTA board, certainly 4 not to put him on a university board. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Marchi. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 7 I again have apologize, Senator Marchi. We'll 8 no now have the Finance Committee meeting in 9 Room 332, please. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Finance Committee 11 meetin in Room 332. 12 Senator Marchi. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 Mr. President, I did many years 16 ago have an experience with John Dyson, the Lone 17 Ranger experience, and I have to differentiate 18 the experience I had with the recent episode 19 that brings us to discuss his qualifications and 20 whether we should or should not confirm him as 21 the mayor's representative on the MTA board. 22 The dimensions of this prospect 23 were greater than the ones that I had. I was 7928 1 offended at that time when he came in with the 2 mask and my response might have been, perhaps a 3 little more severe, but I had no regret having 4 done what I did. I immediately gaveled a 5 meeting that we were having, a departmental 6 hearing in response to his coming in with the 7 mask, but I also discovered and also reflected 8 on the fact that there was no rancor in what he 9 had done, and I was reminded, I think and 10 sensitized by Senator Levy's reference to the 11 fact that our pretensions of infallibility are 12 not available to us as human beings. It is our 13 -- what is basic, I think, is our humanity and 14 this has caused pain. That was mentioned by 15 Senator Waldon, by Senator Montgomery and 16 others, and yet, at the same time, there was 17 this simultaneous disclaimer of the notion that 18 was prompted by a spirit of racism or a feeling 19 that would be demeaning if he continued even as 20 -- in service as a deputy mayor, but much more 21 -- of much greater importance, continuing as 22 deputy mayor if, in fact, it was the product of 23 rancor or of racism or of a spirit that was 7929 1 inconsistent with the respect that public trust 2 demands of us to have reverence for the people 3 and the society in which we live in, and there 4 was nothing in the experience, certainly the 5 rapidity with which he expressed his regret that 6 it had caused pain, at least was indicative to 7 me as he indicated to me personally that he was, 8 indeed, regretful, that an inconsiderate remark 9 did not reflect a -- his basic attitude towards 10 society and his fellow man, and I mean this in a 11 generic sense. It was -- it was part of those 12 fallible episodes that were referred to, I think 13 very sensitively by Senator Levy. 14 We have the individual -- the New 15 York times, at least in the information that was 16 furnished, observed editorially when he had 17 departed from public service, when they observed 18 editorially that Mr. Dyson has shown rare 19 energy, originality and independence of thought, 20 his return to public life will be as welcome as 21 it is probable and, indeed, his service has been 22 characterized by dedication, by ability and 23 competence. 7930 1 I believe that -- I believe that 2 he has professed his real feelings and a -- a - 3 an expression of personal pain because he had 4 caused that. As the two of you, I think you 5 stated that best, "What am I going to say to the 6 people in my district? " But I think we can 7 learn from experience. We can remember one 8 individual, nothing comparable to a John Dyson 9 -- John Dyson is a man of humanity, of 10 sentiment, one who had been -- had pursued a - 11 in his earlier life, a code of conduct that 12 would really prologue to a different result 13 later on, and that was Hugo Black who was a 14 member of the Ku Klux Klan and yet turned out to 15 be one of our ablist and most sensitive 16 individuals in public service by his conduct on 17 the Supreme Court. 18 I believe that John Dyson will 19 sensitize by this experience, will be reflecting 20 that in his public service, and it is this 21 profession of confidence that he will be doing 22 this on the basis that he has served two 23 governors over a period of years demonstrating 7931 1 throughout this entire period, not an 2 insensitivity, perhaps a little flippancy on 3 some occasions but not an insensitivity, so I 4 have -- I feel I feel very comfortable in urging 5 his confirmation to the office that he has been 6 nominated to by the mayor of the city of New 7 York. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Babbush. 9 SENATOR BABBUSH: It's not often 10 that I get up on an issue like this, but let me 11 tell you, Mr. Dyson has done things which I 12 think are beyond where he can't bring it back 13 anymore. 14 This is not an one-time issue. 15 He's done this many of time with the two white 16 men or whatever, you know? Now he's saying 17 other things. I'm not talking about the 18 merits. He's a bright man. He deserves 19 whatever he can get, and in any position he 20 wants to be at but, no, there comes a point, you 21 know, where we can't tolerate what he's doing, 22 at least I can't. I mean, what is he going to 23 say next, jokes the Jews, the Catholics, 7932 1 whatever? No way can I support that, and I 2 understand what they're saying, that he should 3 be the candidate because the mayor wants him, 4 the Governor wants him or whatever, but not on 5 these issues, you know? No way. And I'm from 6 Brooklyn and I don't speak that well, whatever. 7 All I'm going to do right now is to make a 8 motion to table, and I'm going to ask for a slow 9 roll call and I understand it's not debatable, 10 and I'll ask four of my colleagues to stand up 11 with me. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The motion to 13 table has been made. Those who wish to take 14 this vote by slow roll call, that is also been 15 requested, evidently an insufficient number have 16 arisen. Let me ask, those Senators who wish to 17 take this vote by a slow roll call, please 18 rise. Evidentally, a sufficient number of 19 Senators have arisen. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 21 if I may. This is not about the tabling. This 22 is about the slow roll call, correct? 23 THE PRESIDENT: No, this is about 7933 1 whether to take the motion to table by a slow 2 roll call. 3 SENATOR WALDON: I retract my - 4 THE PRESIDENT: All right. I'll 5 state it again, if I may. Senator Babbush has 6 made a motion to table the nomination of John 7 Dyson to the MTA. On the question of whether 8 the motion to table should be by slow roll call, 9 those who wish to take it that -- in that 10 fashion should rise. It is evident that an 11 insufficient number have risen, so all those in 12 favor of the motion to table will say aye. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Those opposed to the motion to 15 the table will say nay. 16 (Response of "Nay".) 17 In the opinion of the Chair, the 18 nays have it. The nominee -- the question of 19 the nomination is before the Senate. 20 Senator Markowitz. 21 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 This is a difficult appointment 7934 1 for all of us who are concerned and view with a 2 significant amount of concern, the fact that the 3 mayor of the city of New York who may be riding 4 high in the polls in terms of two out of three 5 New Yorkers, yet that third New Yorker are 6 primarily African-Americans who, perhaps did not 7 makeup the fact -- not perhaps but did not, in 8 fact, makeup his supports in terms of his 9 winning election as mayor of the city of New 10 York and who continues in many ways, not to have 11 accomplished or sought to accomplish the out 12 reach necessary, in my opinion, to be the mayor 13 of all the people. 14 A number of years ago we remember 15 when Jessie Jackson referred to New York City as 16 "Hinny Town". Words have a way of hurting. 17 When Mr. Jackson made that statement, it hurt me 18 and many years and, in time, he asked to be 19 forgiven for that statement, and I and many 20 other New Yorkers of Jewish background 21 understood that at times, all of us, the high 22 and mighty and the low, whatever, all of us at 23 times make statements that we wish we had not 7935 1 made. 2 In case of the situation with Mr. 3 Dyson, there's no question that the statements 4 alluded to earlier by my colleague, Senator 5 Smith, as well my other colleagues, there's no 6 question that one can construe at the very 7 least, a measure of insensitivity, and yet, if 8 the message can be delivered home to our mayor 9 who most of us sincerely hope and pray succeeds 10 in making New York City a safer, better place to 11 live for all. If, as a result of Mr. Dyson's 12 regrettable remarks, if the message can be 13 delivered home that this city is not a majority 14 white city, it is not a majority black city, it 15 is not a majority Latino city, nor Asian city, 16 nor Pakistani city, nor any of the other ethics 17 that make up this great, great city of New York, 18 but rather, New York City is a city of 19 minorities; it is. It is a city of minorities. 20 You may ride high in the polls, two out of 21 three, but it's the quality of the management of 22 the city that concerns all of us. 23 And so I hope that as a result of 7936 1 this recent experience, that we'll be able to 2 have the mayor as well as Mr. Dyson understand 3 the ethnic compositions and the sensitivities 4 that are necessary to represent all of the 5 people, and that's what I hope will be a result. 6 Mr. Dyson's remarks were 7 unfortunate. He has been up in Albany the last 8 few days. He has asked to be forgiven. I've 9 made statements in my life that I wish I could 10 take back. I have been fortunate to have people 11 forgive me, and I in turn have forgiven others 12 whose remarks I felt to be offensive. I take 13 him at his face value. He has asked to be 14 forgiven. He has apologized for his remarks. I 15 hope that he will make a contribution at the MTA 16 that will be meaningful to those of us in New 17 York that depend upon buses and subways. If he 18 fails, I hold the mayor responsible. He's the 19 mayor's appointment. If he succeeds, then it's 20 the mayor who deserves the praise. That's what 21 we're voting on this evening. It's not an easy 22 decision, Mr. President, for me, but 23 nonetheless, it's one that, in reflecting about 7937 1 it the last few days and, certainly listening to 2 my colleagues, I hope it's the proper one. 3 Thank you. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 we have a very diverse state which we live. 7 We're Asian, black, we're Hispanic, white. 8 We're upper middle class, we're welfare 9 recipients, we're tenants, cooperators, 10 landlords and even the homeless. We send our 11 children to public and private schools. 12 We have an immense opportunity in 13 a situation like this, if we stop for a moment 14 and stop to look at who we are, what we are, 15 from where we have come, and most importantly, 16 Mr. President, what we can be. 17 Senator Levy was kind enough to 18 allow me to participate in the questioning of 19 Deputy Mayor Dyson at the Transportation 20 Committee inquiry last night, and Mr. Dyson, the 21 deputy mayor said that he had -- was not 22 familiar with the true meaning of what the 23 watermelon representation was. If that's the 7938 1 case, then why don't we demur to Deputy Mayor 2 Dyson's representation. Why don't we accept 3 that he didn't actually know, and if we do 4 accept that, then maybe we need to talk about 5 what that term really means. 6 The watermelon which would 7 otherwise just be a harmless fruit associated 8 with the seasonal time period in summer and 9 picnics and pleasure, has actually been 10 manipulated to stereo type the perception of 11 African-Americans as being lazy, shiftless, 12 ignorant, dishonest and of no consequence or 13 meaning as citizens in this country. It started 14 in the 1860s and has continued up until today. 15 A friend of mine told me last 16 week, he is a law clerk in a prestigious law 17 firm and the only of a African-American 18 employee, that a few days before he came back 19 from lunch and found a picture of a watermelon 20 on his desk. What message do you think his 21 co-workers were trying to send him? 22 The watermelon is something that 23 was portrayed in film, in Birth of a Nation, in 7939 1 our gang comedies, in the Three Stooges, always 2 to depict a very ignorant life-style for 3 African-Americans. That's what the watermelon 4 means. 5 In most recent civil rights 6 marches after hate crimes, individuals who lived 7 in Bensonhurst ran in Howard Beach brought 8 watermelons out to greet the marchers in those 9 particular incidents. That's what the 10 watermelon means to African-Americans. They are 11 synonymous about the other stereo typical 12 characterizations by African-Americans by uses 13 of monkeys and other types of symbols to 14 denigrate and degrade the life-style and the 15 living of 35 million people in this country. 16 That's what the watermelon means. Now, most 17 educated people who -- I would assume would know 18 that meaning. 19 A great baseball player, Jackie 20 Robinson in 1953 hit two homeruns and stole 21 three bases in a game to lead the Brooklyn 22 Dodgers into a victory over the Milwaukee 23 Braves. A pitcher for the Milwaukee Braves 7940 1 named Lou Burdett made a comment as he was 2 leaving the stadium to Jackie Robinson which is 3 fabled in sports law, "I guess you earned your 4 watermelon today", and Jackie Robinson then 5 threw a baseball at him and engaged him in a 6 fight. 7 Later on, Lou Burdett said he 8 should have known better. He knew that that 9 statement was inappropriate; it was racist, and 10 it was a statement that depicted a ridicule 11 that, obviously Jackie Robinson was not going to 12 stand for. 13 I think I saw that same 14 expression on the face of Senator Waldon when he 15 addressed this issue for the first time 16 yesterday. That's what the watermelon means for 17 those who are unaware or do not understand the 18 full meaning of that terminology, and so as we 19 go on from that understanding of what the symbol 20 actually meant, we now have to address the 21 context in which it was used. 22 It was used a few days after a 23 mayor discontinued a 20 percent minority 7941 1 insensitive -- minority and women's business 2 incentive program by saying it was racially 3 motivated. The mayor said that. Apparently, he 4 did not want to include the research of over two 5 years in the Blue Ribbon Panel that had been set 6 up by the previous mayor to try to comply with 7 the Clossan versus Richmond decision of the 8 United States Supreme Court in the spring of 9 1990. The Patterson case, the McClean case, the 10 AT&T case and Martin v Wilts which all which 11 took place in an 18-month period of time pretty 12 much obliterating the Duke versus the -- Briggs 13 versus the Duke Power Company, a Florida 14 decision in 1971. 15 In other words, what the mayor of 16 the city of New York was trying to do was to 17 increase the seven percent participation of 18 minority and women businesses that existed when 19 he came into office in 1990 without being in 20 conflict with a Supreme Court decision. He was 21 able in the last two years of his administration 22 to bring the minority and women participation up 23 to 17 percent. 7942 1 Now, if the new mayor doesn't 2 like that policy, he doesn't have to conform it 3 but it was major Giuliani who went out of his 4 way to characterize it as racially motivated. 5 Maybe that's the atmosphere that allowed his 6 deputy mayor, Mr. Dyson, to feel so comfortable 7 continuing this discourse with the comptroller 8 and then inevitably making the remark that was 9 actually made. And so, just days after that, as 10 Senator Leichter commented, we are asked to come 11 to this chamber and confirm this nomination. 12 I want to suggest that Senator 13 Markowitz is right. If an individual gives you 14 their word that they did not understand, I think 15 we have no other -- we have no other course than 16 to accept it and, therefore, I forgive Deputy 17 Mayor Dyson for that remark. 18 Forgiveness, I believe is 19 actually a virtue and an attribute that is 20 ordained to the only Al Mighty but can become 21 the privilege of another man or another woman if 22 requested. I forgive him but I cannot vote for 23 this nomination because, in my opinion, the 7943 1 intent is not the issue that we're really 2 discussion here. I'm pretty sure Mrs. O'Leary's 3 cow didn't intend to knock over a lamp and start 4 the Chicago fire, but he did, and the result is, 5 how are we going to put the fire out? How much 6 more foresighted would it have been had the 7 mayor or the Majority or even Mr. Dyson himself 8 tabled his own nomination for a while to give us 9 a chance to get over this particular remark? 10 How much more foresighted would it have been for 11 a resolution to have passed this Senate or the 12 New York City Council condemning the remarks so 13 at least we can divorce the individual from his 14 remarks? Nobody suggested that. One member of 15 this chamber did; Senator Galiber, and I think 16 we owe him all a debt of gratitude for trying to 17 take an action in this process to bring people 18 together. 19 How much more foresighted would 20 it have been if Mr. Dyson had met with a group 21 of African-Americans, legislators after the 22 February 10th reported remark about two white 23 men running the city? Are we to conclude that 7944 1 Deputy Mayor Dyson only met with the group 2 because he had to get past the group to get his 3 confirmation to sit on the MTA board? Why 4 wasn't meeting held in February? That would 5 have demonstrated some responsibility about the 6 previous remark, so I can't be sure that the 7 meetings were actually an out growth of a real 8 sincere desire to atone for the statements or a 9 highly professional politicized attempt to 10 create damage control. 11 And finally, in the press 12 conference in which Mr. Dyson and the mayor 13 addressed the issue, there was absolutely no 14 sensitivity demonstrated for what the meaning of 15 the watermelon remark actually does to 16 individuals that have to hear it, as much as I 17 tried to describe this evening. 18 And so, I cannot support this 19 nomination, but I do hope that if there is a 20 silver lining around this dark cloud that it has 21 brought us together and given us an opportunity 22 to discuss this issue. 23 I agree with Senator Smith that 7945 1 Mr. Dyson can go on from here and demonstrate 2 the kind of sensitivity that he definitely 3 portrayed today in his meetings and in his 4 conversations. 5 We hope that this will be an 6 immense opportunity to probably create a 7 dialogue and an understanding among legislators 8 and among people around this state that didn't 9 exist before. 10 But finally, I just say that as 11 we sit here in the chamber, those of us who are 12 elected, those of us who are appointed and those 13 of us who work for elected officials, let us not 14 remember that on the lower frequencies of 15 society, people are reading newspapers about a 16 watermelon and the indignity they must feel 17 about being associated with these kinds of 18 remarks, and there hasn't been one 19 administrative or governmental response to it 20 other than saying "I'm sorry." There are too 21 many people in this state who suffer because of 22 these kinds of remarks and they are so serious 23 that a mere apology is not going to be enough. 7946 1 There were remedies that could have been sought 2 and there were not. Had they be, I'm sure I 3 could have voted for this nomination. Maybe the 4 next time we'll think of something a little more 5 creative to try to address an issue because 6 somebody in unawareness or ignorance is going to 7 offend someone else probably in too short a 8 period of time as we speak. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The question 11 occurs on the confirmation of the nominee. All 12 those in favor say aye. 13 (Response of "Aye".) 14 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call has 15 been requested. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Slow roll call is 17 requested. Those who wish to have a slow roll 18 call are evidently sufficient. The Clerk -- the 19 Secretary will call the roll by slow roll call. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 21 SENATOR BABBUSH: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 23 (There was no response.) 7947 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 4 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator DeFrancisco. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator DiCarlo. 12 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dollinger 14 -- Senator Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Farley. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 21 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 7948 1 will be very, very brief. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold is 3 recognized to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I admire the 5 comments made today by everybody. They came 6 from the heart, and I want to make one comment. 7 I have my notes around here from my comments, 8 and I noted that, and I think everyone did, that 9 Senator Paterson was not using notes. Rarely 10 have I heard such a statement from the heart 11 that was that good in so many ways and as 12 important and, Senator Paterson, I'm glad you 13 gave that history. I think it was important and 14 I just wanted to thank you publicly for it. I 15 vote no. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold 17 votes no. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Goodman. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Hannon. 23 (There was no response.) 7949 1 Senator Hoffmann. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Kruger. 10 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 12 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 14 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack is 16 recognized to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I will try to be brief. I think 20 prior to this evening's vote, I'm probably the 21 only one in this chamber who has voted against 22 Mr. Dyson, and I did so when he sought to be 23 confirmed to be chair of the Power Authority of 7950 1 the state of New York, and I did so because of a 2 long-standing relationship that I've had with 3 Mr. Dyson which started when I was Commissioner 4 of Consumer Affairs of Suffolk County and he was 5 a state Agricultural Commissioner. 6 When he was made Chair of -- - 7 chair of PASNY, he was appointed by the Governor 8 and as chair of PASNY to represent my 9 constituents and myself to the extent that PASNY 10 services were ever to able available for people 11 on Long Island. I didn't then then, I wouldn't 12 think now that Mr. PASNY should be representing 13 my constituents. 14 But time and time again tonight, 15 it has been said and do I agree with it, that 16 Mr. Dyson, as Mayor Giuliani's appointee to the 17 MTA, I have heard in 16 years I have been here, 18 time and time again, members on the other side 19 of the aisle when there's an appointment by the 20 mayor of the city of New York that it is the 21 mayor's appointment and that we should respect 22 that appointment. I have followed that in the 23 past. I have voted for several appointees of 7951 1 mayors for 16 years that I have been here, that 2 I would not vote for if they were gubernatorial 3 appointees and if they were being appointed to 4 serve in positions to represent my constituency 5 that I have been elected to represent. 6 I will follow that consistency 7 tonight and recognize Mr. Dyson's appointment to 8 the MTA as the mayor's representative, and I 9 will vote in the affirmative, somewhat 10 reluctantly. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack 12 votes aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Nay. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 7952 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 5 aye. 6 Senator Markowitz. 7 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Also, 8 briefly, with the proviso of the comments that I 9 made earlier with the hope that Mr. Dyson and 10 the mayor will show the sensitivity necessary to 11 all the people, regardless of the polls, to 12 understand that it's not just the management of 13 the city, but the quality of the management of 14 the city, and it is a city of all, and that it 15 can only work when everyone feels apart of the 16 city, and hope that the vote will be a 17 reflection on the hope that the sensitivities of 18 concerns that I hope and pray will happen now 19 with the full realization of the last few days 20 and the fact that Mr. Dyson and his colleagues 21 have heard the remarks of my colleagues. 22 I vote yes. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Markowitz 7953 1 votes yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Montgomery. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 Montgomery. 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, to 9 explain my vote very briefly, Mr. President. 10 I wanted to make two statements 11 to clarify my position very clearly here 12 tonight. I voted against the prior mayor's 13 appointee to the MTA for different reasons, so I 14 wanted to be very clear that I'm not voting only 15 against this mayor's appointee. I've done that 16 in the past. 17 And the second point that I want 18 to make is, I do not believe that Mr. Dyson is a 19 racist. I take that very seriously and I don't 20 believe that he is a racist and that is the 21 reason he made the statements, but I do believe 22 that the issue of opportunities for all of the 23 people of the city of New York, especially 7954 1 minorities and women to do business with the 2 city is important, and that is why I am voting 3 against this appointment -- this appointment. 4 I vote no. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Montgomery votes no. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 8 SENATOR NANULA: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Nozzolio. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Ohrenstein, aye. 15 Senator Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: To explain my 17 vote, Mr. President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: It seems like 20 we're having a week of controversy with the 21 nominations. 22 Yesterday, while we were not 23 confirming directly a person that I did not want 7955 1 to see in the City University, Chancellor 2 Reynolds, for being very insensitive to the 3 needs of the Italian-American community, I 4 confirmed -- I voted to confirm the members of 5 the board of trustees for the City University, 6 but today I have a direct opportunity to show my 7 displeasure with someone who made a very 8 insensitive remark about our minority community, 9 and I will not tolerate that and I, therefore, 10 vote no. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Onorato 12 votes no. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Oppenheimer. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Pataki. 19 SENATOR PATAKI: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 7956 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 2 SENATOR RATH: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 6 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 8 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 14 SENATOR SMITH: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Spano. 18 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Stachowski. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Stafford. 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 7957 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 4 SENATOR TRUNZO: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella 8 -- Senator Velella. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker, 11 excused. 12 Senator Waldon. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon is 14 recognized. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 16 much, Mr. President, to explain my vote. 17 Rarely if ever since I've been in 18 this house have I seen the dignity of the debate 19 as evidenced this evening. I've never, ever 20 seen it so quite throughout the long period of 21 the debate. 22 I want to thank everyone for 23 their remarks. I thought it was a very high 7958 1 level and sensitive display of how we really 2 feel about a very important issue. I especially 3 want to thank those who saw this issue the same 4 as myself, because perhaps they walked the road 5 and in the shoes that I have walked. 6 I think one of the things that 7 happened here tonight was that we all learned a 8 little bit about what certain insensitive 9 remarks mean to and do to others than ourselves, 10 and I want you to know that myself am a mere 11 reflection of a lot of people, some who are 12 angrier than I, some who may have experienced 13 racism in a more intense fashion than I, and I 14 would hope that there would be a greater 15 sensitivity in this body to people who are not 16 hateful, spiteful, vicious people looking to 17 perform vendettas but just want a fair shake, 18 just want equity, want their children to grow up 19 like you want your children to grow up with the 20 best opportunities, just want to be Americans, 21 just want to be accepted. That's what this is 22 really all about. 23 This thing began with discussion 7959 1 on minority participation in a government which, 2 in my opinion, has been most insensitive to 3 black Americans, African- and Caribbean 4 Americans and Latinos. I hope this will be a 5 signal to this mayor to change, somehow his 6 ways, but I hope it will also at the same time, 7 be a signal to those of us in this room that we 8 have an obligation to work on behalf of all of 9 the people of the state of New York, black and 10 white, Jew and gentile. 11 I vote in the negative and I 12 thank you, Mr. President and my colleagues, for 13 your indulgence and for your high level of 14 debate this evening. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon 16 votes no. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 18 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the 20 absentees. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Daly. 22 SENATOR DALY: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7960 1 DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Gonzalez. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Goodman. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Hannon. 10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nolan. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Solomon. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 20 will report the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 37, nays 22 18. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is 7961 1 confirmed. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I don't doubt Mr. 5 Cornell at all, I'm serious about that, but 6 usually we read the negatives, and I think in 7 this situation, most people would be more 8 comfortable knowing that it's accurate and I 9 mean no respect to our distinguished Secretary, 10 no disrespect. I meant no disrespect. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Is Senator Gold 12 asking for a detailed statement of the vote? 13 SENATOR GOLD: I'm not saying 14 that. Normally I thought we -- that you read 15 out the negatives. 16 THE PRESIDENT: We never read the 17 negatives on a slow roll call or do not 18 routinely read them on a slow roll call. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Well, fine. I 20 just - 21 THE PRESIDENT: Only on a regular 22 roll. 23 SENATOR GOLD: No, yes, no? Let 7962 1 it alone. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The nominee is 3 confirmed. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 we're not quite ready to proceed. We'll stand 6 at ease for a few moments. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 8 ease.) 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 11 Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: I understand 13 there is a report of standing committees at the 14 desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Finance. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Finance. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 21 following nominations: Member of the Workers' 22 Compensation Board, Raymond A. Charles, Jr. of 23 New York City, Marjorie J. Hill of Brooklyn, 7963 1 Julia Jorge of the Bronx, Carmine Ruberto of 2 Latham, Walter Shields of Williamsville, Ilene 3 J. Slater slate, Esq. of New York City, 4 Ferdinand Tremiti, Esq. of Oswego; 5 Member of the New York State 6 Employment Relations Board: Thomas H. Hines of 7 Loudonville; 8 Commissioner of the State 9 Insurance Fund: Charles G. Moerdler, Esq. of 10 Riverdale and Avery Neumark of New York City; 11 Member of the State Fire 12 Prevention and Building Code Council: Nicholas 13 Lomuscio and -- of Douglas Manor, Herbert R. 14 Martin of Gloversville and Terence J. Moakley of 15 West Nyack; also, John J. Torpey of Nyack; 16 Member of the Metropolitan 17 Transportation Authority: Bert Corneby of 18 Monroe. 19 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 21 Spano. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: With respect to 23 the appointments and reappointments to the 7964 1 members of the Workers' Compensation Board, as 2 the chairman of Labor Committee, I would like to 3 just thank the Governor's appointments who spent 4 the last couple of days here awaiting 5 confirmation. I apologize for the fact that you 6 had to sit in the gallery until 3:00 o'clock in 7 the morning for your confirmation today, but to 8 congratulate you as well as to congratulate Tom 9 Hines for the state Employment Relations Board. 10 The members of the Workers' Compensation Board, 11 Mr. President, are seated in the gallery, and I 12 would hope that you would just offer our sincere 13 congratulations to them. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 16 question is on the confirmation of the 17 nominees. All in favor say aye. 18 (Response of "Aye".) 19 Opposed, nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 The nominees are confirmed. 22 Congratulations to all. 23 (Applause.) 7965 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I believe we have a report from the Rules 5 Committee at the desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marino, 9 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 10 following bills directly for third reading: 11 Senate Bill Number 4554-A, by Senator Spano, 12 Local Finance Law; 13 8668, by Senator Saland, an act 14 to amend the Banking Law; 15 8755, by Senator Skelos, General 16 Municipal Law; 17 8788-A, by Senator Sears, an act 18 to amend the General Business Law; 19 8807, by Senator Pataki, an act 20 to amend the Energy Law; 21 8809, by Senator Trunzo, 22 Retirement and Social Security Law; 23 8826-A, by Senator Johnson, 7966 1 Environmental Conservation Law; 2 8863, by Senator Present, Public 3 Health law; 4 8865, by Senator Nozzolio, 5 proposing an amendment to the constitution in 6 relation to registration to vote; 7 8874, by the Committee on Rules, 8 Education Law; 9 8875, by the Committee on Rules, 10 in relation to the continuation of education of 11 children; 12 8877, by the Committee on Rules, 13 an act in relation to effecting the health 14 insurance benefits and contributions of retired 15 employees; 16 8878, by Senator Holland, Social 17 Services Law; 18 8880, by Senator Skelos, Social 19 Services Law; 20 8881, by Senator Libous, Social 21 Services Law; 22 8882, by Senator Holland, Social 23 Services Law; 7967 1 8896, by the Committee on Rules, 2 Education Law; 3 8897, by Senator Volker, 4 Executive Law; 5 8753, by Senator Hoffmann, 6 authorizing the city of Rome to issue serial 7 bonds; 8 8801, by Senator Hoffmann, 9 authorize the city of Rome to transfer and 10 convey the Rome Hospital and Murphy Memorial 11 Hospital to a hospital corporation; 12 And 8767, by Senator Bruno, an 13 act to amend the Tax Law. All bills reported 14 directly to third reading. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: With no 16 objection, all bills ordered to third reading. 17 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 18 ease.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Mr. 20 President. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 let's start a non-controversial calendar on 23 Calendar Number 3, Supplemental Calendar Number 7968 1 3. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 5 Calendar Number 3, Calendar Number 1676, by 6 Senator Spano, Senate Bill Number 4554-A, Local 7 Finance Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 9 bill is high. Lay it aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1677, by Senator Saland - 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside, 13 please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1678, by Senator Skelos, Senate Bill Number 18 8755, an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 7969 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1679, Senator Sears moves to it discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 11803-B and substitute it for the identical 10 Third Reading 1679. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 12 Substitution is ordered. Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1680, Senator Pataki moves to discharge the 23 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7970 1 8905 and substitute it for the identical Third 2 Reading 1608. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 4 substitution is ordered. Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1681, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill Number 15 8809, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 16 Security Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7971 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1684, Senator Nozzolio moves to discharge the 6 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7 12221 and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading 1684. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 10 substitution is ordered. Last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1685, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 21 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 22 12230 and substitute it for the identical Third 23 Reading 1685. 7972 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 2 substitution is ordered. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 is there a message at the desk for 1685? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 7 is. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 9 accept the message. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 11 favor say aye. 12 (Response of "Aye".) 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The message is accepted. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7973 1 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 3 Cook. 4 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, to 5 explain my vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 7 Cook, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 9 want to make it clear that I'm not voting 10 against this bill with the intent of being 11 opposed to resolving the problems relative to 12 Kiryas Joel, but I am procedurally concerned 13 about the methodology that's been established. 14 The ability of villages to create 15 school districts is a precedent that I'm very 16 concerned about. Although this bill is written 17 very tightly to try to avoid having other people 18 follow that precedent, I am not totally 19 comfortable with that -- that it will be for 20 foreclosed, and for that reason, I'm voting in 21 the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 23 Cook in the negative. Results? Were there any 7974 1 other negatives? 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar 1685 are Senators cook, 4 Daly, DeFrancisco, Dollinger, Galiber, Jones and 5 Wright. Ayes 56, nays 7. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1686, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 11 12229 and substitute it for the identical Third 12 Reading 1686. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 14 substitution is ordered. 15 Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 17 is there a message of necessity at the desk for 18 1686? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 20 is. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 22 accept it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 7975 1 favor say aye. 2 (Response of "Aye".) 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The message is accepted. Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1687, Senator Marino moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 18 12210 and substitute it for the identical Third 19 Reading 1687. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 21 substitution is ordered. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 is there a message for Calendar 1687 at the 7976 1 desk? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 3 is. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 5 accept the message. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 7 favor say aye. 8 (Response of "Aye".) 9 Opposed, nay. 10 (There was no response.) 11 The message is accepted. Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 1, 19 Senator LaValle recorded in the negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1688, Senator Holland moves to discharge the 7977 1 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 2 12234 and substitute it for the identical Third 3 Reading 1688. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 5 substitution is ordered. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 is there a message of necessity on 1688 at the 9 desk? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 11 is. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 13 accept the message. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 15 favor say aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The message is accepted. Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 7978 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1689, Senator Skelos moves to discharge the 8 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 9 12242 and substitute it for the identical Third 10 Reading 1689. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 12 substitution is ordered. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 is there a message of necessity on 1689 at the 16 desk? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Yes, 18 there is. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 20 accept the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 22 favor say aye. 23 (Response of "Aye".) 7979 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The message is accepted. Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1690, by Senator Libous moves to discharge the 15 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 16 12243 and substitute it for the identical Third 17 Reading 1690. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 19 substitution is ordered. 20 Senator Present. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 22 is there a message of necessity on 1690 at the 23 desk? 7980 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Yes, 2 there is. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 4 accept the message. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 6 favor say aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The message is accepted. Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1691, Senator Holland moves to discharge the 22 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 23 12244 and substitute it for the identical Third 7981 1 Reading 1691. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 3 substitution is ordered. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 is there a message of necessity on 1691 at the 7 desk? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Yes, 9 there is. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 11 accept that message. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 13 favor say aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The message is accepted. Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7982 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1694, Senator Hoffmann moves to discharge the 6 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 7 12073 and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading 1694. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Home 10 rule message is at the desk. Read the last 11 section -- I'm sorry, the substitution is 12 ordered. Home rule message is at the desk. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1695, Senator Hoffmann moves to discharge the 7983 1 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 2 12120 and substitute it for the identical Third 3 Reading 1695. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 5 substitution is ordered. There's a home rule 6 message at the desk. Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1696, by Senator Bruno, Senate Bill Number 8767, 17 an act to amend the Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 23 the roll. 7984 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 167... 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 8 DiCarlo. 9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 10 I would like to be recorded in the negative on 11 Calendar Number 1684, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Without 13 objection, Senator DiCarlo in the negative. I'm 14 sorry. 15 Senator Galiber. 16 SENATOR GALIBER: Mr. President, 17 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 18 negative on Bill 1473? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Without 20 objection. 21 Senator Maltese. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 23 I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 7985 1 negative on Calendar Number 1684. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Without 3 objection. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 6 Calendar 1410. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: On the 8 regular calendar, Calendar Number 1410, page 22. 9 THE SECRETARY: Page 22, Calendar 10 Number 1410, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 11 Assembly Bill Number 12153, Retirement and 12 Social Security Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 4, 21 Senators Cook, Kuhl, Saland and Wright recorded 22 in the negative; also, Senator Seward in the 23 negative. 7986 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 2 bill is passed. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 while we're waiting, on behalf of Senator 6 Marino, I wish to call up his bill, Print 3827 7 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 8 desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Marino, Senate Bill Number 3827, an act to amend 13 the General Municipal Law. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 16 bill was passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 18 the roll on reconsideration. 19 (The Secretary called the roll in 20 reconsideration.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 23 I now offer the following amendments. 7987 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 2 amendments are received. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 4 Senator - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 6 Santiago. 7 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 8 I would like to be excused from voting on 9 Calendars 1689, 1690 and 1691. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Without 11 objection. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 call up Calendar 1666 on Calendar Number 2. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 17 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1666. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1666 on Supplemental Calendar Number 2, 20 substituted earlier by the Assembly Committee on 21 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11762-A. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 23 Present. 7988 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 2 message of necessity on 1666? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 4 is. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 6 accept that message. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All in 8 favor say aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The message is accepted. Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 21 bill is passed. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 7989 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, sir. 3 On behalf of Senator Espada, with 4 regard to Calendar Number 1689, 1690 and 1691, I 5 ask unanimous consent that he be excused from 6 voting on those three bills. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Could 8 you just repeat the - 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Calendars 10 1689, 1690 and 1691. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Without 12 objection. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 14 I understand that there should be some 15 substitutions at the desk and we could take up 16 with those. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 18 Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: On the regular 20 Calendar Number 552. Senator Tully moves to 21 discharge the Committee on Rules from Assembly 22 Bill Number 12248 and substitute it for the 23 identical Calendar Number 552. 7990 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 2 Substitution ordered. Lay it aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 646. Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge the 5 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 6 2817C and substitute it for the identical 646. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 8 Substitution ordered. Lay it aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson 10 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 11 Assembly Bill Number 11933A and substitute it 12 for the identical Third Reading 941. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 14 Substitution ordered. Lay it aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1629. Senator Volker moves to discharge the 17 Committee on Rules from Assembly Bill Number 18 8001A and substitute it for the identical Third 19 Reading 1629. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 21 Substitution ordered. Lay it aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: That's it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 7991 1 Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: I understand 3 there is a further substitution at the desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 5 is. Secretary will read. Can we have some 6 order please. 7 THE SECRETARY: On calendar 8 Supplemental Calendar Number 3, Calendar Number 9 1683. Senator Present moves to discharge the 10 Committee on Rules from Assembly bill number 11 12223 and substitute it for the identical 12 Calendar Number 1683. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: 14 Substitution ordered. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 16 May we have that bill called at this time. 17 THE SECRETARY: We're checking on 18 a message. I don't have it yet. 19 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 20 the proceedings.) 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Call up 22 Calendar 1683. I believe the message is at the 23 desk. 7992 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Order 2 please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1683 on 4 Supplemental Calendar Number 3, substituted 5 earlier, Assembly Bill Number 12223, by the 6 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Public 7 Health Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Senator 9 Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 11 Is there a message of necessity at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: There 13 is. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 15 accept it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: All 17 those in favor, aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed, nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 The message is accepted. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7993 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Point of 3 order. What number are we on? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: We're 5 on Supplemental Calendar Number 3, page 1, 6 Calendar Number 1683. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 18 bill is passed. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 20 I think we got to go back to that at ease stage 21 again. The Senate will stand at ease. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SKELOS: The 23 Senate will stand at ease. 7994 1 (Whereupon, at 3:45 a.m., Senate 2 was at ease.) 3 (Whereupon, at 4:15 a.m., Senate 4 reconvened, Senator Farley was in the chair.) 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 6 Will you recognize Senator Libous. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8 Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 10 I have a privileged resolution that I would like 11 to offer up and ask that the title be read 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Libous' resolution. 15 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 16 resolution by Senators Libous and Nozzolio 17 calling for increased public accessibility to 18 legislative information via computer networks. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Would 20 you like to speak on the resolution? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: If I may, sir. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: You 23 certainly may. 7995 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 2 President here we are at 4:15 a.m., and we are 3 offering up a resolution to open up government. 4 Basically what this resolution 5 does is it says that the Senate and Assembly 6 together have worked out an agreement to put 7 information online on computer line through the 8 Internet system so that citizens of New York 9 State have access to its government, and they 10 can sit home at their computer terminal and 11 through Internet be able to get information on 12 resolutions that are being offered in the 13 Senate, legislation, the status of bills. 14 Mr. President. There's a lot of 15 noise here. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 17 your point is well-taken. Please hold down the 18 conversations, if you would please so we can 19 hear Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 21 President, because that is a very historic 22 moment for the State Senate. 23 Other information that would be 7996 1 made available, obviously, is home rule messages 2 and Consolidated Laws, Selected Unconsolidated 3 Laws, the Constitution of the State of New 4 York. All this information is going to be made 5 available right at the computer terminal through 6 their own fingertips, and they can get this 7 information. 8 The importance of this resolution 9 is that this is one of the first times that we 10 are making state government, the bills that we 11 pass here in the Legislature, open and 12 accessible to the people of this state. 13 And Internet is a system that 14 many people are on and has worked out very well 15 as other systems have, such as Compuserve and 16 those others. 17 So, Mr. President, this 18 resolution is going to bring openness and 19 accessibility of the State Senate, of 20 government, to the people of New York State, and 21 I ask for its adoption. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Nozzolio. 7997 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 2 President. On the resolution. 3 Mr. President. My colleagues. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, 5 please speak on it. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The hour is 7 late. I will condense my comments to echo those 8 of Senator Libous, who himself is to be 9 congratulated for his efforts in putting 10 together a team that pushed placement of 11 legislative records, as described, into the fast 12 lane of the information highway. 13 We have now citizens who will be 14 able to access the proceedings of this house and 15 the Assembly and will have a better grasp of 16 those issues debated before our state 17 representatives. 18 Our democracy is strengthened 19 when people have easy access to information 20 about the operations of state government. 21 That's the sum and substance of this resolution. 22 I thank Senator Libous and 23 Senator Marino for helping to put it into 7998 1 fruition, and I move the resolution. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 3 resolution. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 7 Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President. On the resolution. 10 I commend both Senator Libous and 11 Senator Nozzolio for pushing this idea forward. 12 I think it's a good one. I think it will 13 continue one of the trends that we have already 14 produced some historic pieces of legislation in 15 opening up the voting process. We will open up 16 additional information. 17 I have only two cautions about 18 the resolution. I think there's one other 19 detail that should be included in the directive 20 in the resolution, and that is, to include the 21 votes of members of both houses on bills that 22 appear before them. I noticed in my brief 23 reading of it that that wasn't included. 7999 1 And the other thing, my concern 2 is that the interactive nature of this tool if 3 it becomes harnessed that we simply extend the 4 ability to harness that system to both sides of 5 the aisle so we don't run into a problem where 6 some day Senator Dollinger says, "I've got to go 7 into the computer banks to find out whether the 8 Majority is using this tool for something other 9 than entirely a government purpose," and we 10 appoint a task force to go and figure out 11 whether it is being used for some other than 12 purely government purpose. 13 If we can avoid that and simply 14 make the availability of this system which I 15 think holds great promise for our ability to 16 communicate with our constituents and to react 17 to our constituents and gain information and 18 data from them that may influence the choices 19 and make better choices in this room, it just 20 seems to me that we ought to do that for 21 everybody in this state and make sure that the 22 system and its benefits are available to us all. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8000 1 Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 3 Firstly, I know that this came over here and we 4 have been reading it very quickly and, Senator 5 Dollinger, I think that your suggestion on the 6 voter information is a good one, but I think 7 that is in here. There is one line that says 8 voter information for final passage on bills. 9 So I think that that is in. But in all 10 fairness, at 20 after 4:00, you get it in a 11 minute, it could have been missed. 12 My comment is really a simple 13 one, and I'm not going to start a fight at this 14 time of night. Actually, to tell you the truth, 15 after a long night I found it funny more than 16 anything. We have been fighting this year led 17 by the -- our chairman, Senator Leichter and by 18 Senator Dollinger and Jones and Hoffmann and 19 others to open up information about the 20 Legislature. And it's funny, I guess, if you 21 look for a dictionary definition of information, 22 information I guess can be anything. I don't 23 think the public cry for information was really 8001 1 daily bills and the text of bills. If this is 2 supposed to be the answer to opening up our 3 books and records and telling taxpayers where we 4 are spending their money and telling taxpayers 5 what we're doing with mailings and telling 6 taxpayers how we're staffing and how we're 7 running the offices, I think it's laughable. 8 I'll support it because it can't 9 do any harm. It's chicken soup. But if anybody 10 is up at 20 after 4:00 o'clock in the morning 11 and wants to play with their computer, they can 12 now read the Constitution of the State of New 13 York, which I'm sure they all will do rather 14 than watching cable television. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 16 Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: If I may, Mr. 18 President, on the resolution in response to my 19 colleague Gold's comments, Manny, I hope that 20 your cynicism is stretched by the hour and not 21 by the fact. You can brag all you want about 22 how you fight for reform. Well, you do it your 23 way and we can do it our way, and our way has 8002 1 produced a result here. And whether or not you 2 wish to acknowledge that result is your right, 3 but to denigrate the information that we're 4 talking about in saying -- we're not saying it's 5 the only step. We're saying it's the first 6 step. And that for you to belittle it in that 7 manner, I think bespeaks not really of an 8 analysis but much for the fatigue that I'm sure 9 we all are exhibiting tonight. I think if you 10 looked at it after some rest, you'd realize that 11 it was a good first step. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Senator yield to a 13 question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Nozzolio, will you yield? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Nozzolio, 18 for openers, can you tell us how much this is 19 going to cost to have this all set up. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The answer is 21 that it's already set up, that the cost to the 22 taxpayers will be virtually nil, that the 23 information is already available. It's in our 8003 1 computers now, that that information has been 2 placed there as a result of budgets past that 3 have put it into computer-access form, and that 4 it will cost the user no more than the cost of a 5 phone call, and in many cases can be accessed 6 through library systems and the like. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator yield 8 to one more question? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: One more 10 question, yes. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. Senator, 12 the first item here of information, daily bill 13 and resolution introduction. Now, that 14 information is already available to the public 15 on an ongoing basis, isn't that true. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: For $200 an 17 hour, Senator, yes, it is available. It is 18 available to the lobbyists who wish to pay for 19 it. It's not available to the citizens who 20 don't have that type of funds and who can't 21 afford that type of information. So, yes, 22 Senator, it is available; but because of this 23 resolution, it's going to be available not just 8004 1 to the lobbyists, not just to the professionals 2 but to the average citizen. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, it says 4 here the text of bills. Aren't the text of 5 bills available to every citizen just by walking 6 up to the window of the document room? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Is that a 8 question, Senator? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Would you 11 repeat it? 12 SENATOR GOLD: I will be glad 13 to. It says "B. The text of bills and 14 resolutions in the current session." Aren't 15 those available to any member of the public just 16 by walking up to the window in the document 17 room? 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly, 19 Senator. However, my constituency lives two and 20 a half hours away, on a fast ride, from the 21 documents room. Yours probably does, too. Now 22 that ride is less than two and a half minutes to 23 the most available computer as the result of 8005 1 this resolution. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 3 much. 4 Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: I think that 8 Senator Nozzolio missed the point entirely, and 9 the point is very simply that we are not opposed 10 to the concept of making information generally 11 available for those of our constituents who want 12 to see the text and do it through a computer 13 network. In my humble opinion, sir, that is 14 going to be a miniscule number of people. 15 Most people that I know of rely 16 upon the Gus Blivens of the world to write and 17 tell them what's going on in Albany, what the 18 bills are about. And, certainly, Mr. Bliven has 19 complete access to the document room and to the 20 other information. 21 But for the sake of argument, if 22 those very distinguished people in Syracuse want 23 to know what you're doing with their money, this 8006 1 doesn't help too much. And certainly Mr. Bliven 2 and others know that that is the real 3 information and that is the real openness that 4 we have been seeking in this legislative 5 process. 6 There is nothing in your computer 7 information, Senator, that's going to give any 8 new light on what is happening within the 9 Legislature. Yes, if there is a student or 10 someone around the state that wants to get some 11 specific text, it certainly does make it easier. 12 Everybody does not have their own set of 13 Consolidated Laws and a Constitution in the 14 house, and I think that that is all very good, 15 and I'm glad we're doing that. 16 But let's not tell the people 17 this is a reform package; this is opening up 18 information. The information that should be 19 opened up is information available to the public 20 and to the press so they can scrutinize what we 21 do, and this doesn't even begin to touch it. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 8007 1 Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 I'm sorry I missed the beginning of this 4 interesting thing. Senator Nozzolio, I was 5 going to ask you to yield. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm sorry you 7 missed the beginning, too. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator 10 Libous. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you be 12 kind enough to yield. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm the sponsor. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Libous is the sponsor of the resolution. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Oh, I'm 17 sorry. I apologize. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would be more 19 than happy to, though, yes, sir. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: He thinks he 21 ought to apologize. No, no. 22 But I'm sorry I missed the 23 beginning of this because this -- and, you know, 8008 1 I understand the best things are left for last, 2 so we had to wait the whole session to get this 3 really break-through proposal. 4 But as I look through this 5 information you want to make available, Senator, 6 I wanted to ask you, would we also be willing to 7 make available to the public how much each 8 member is mailing out and the cost of that and 9 what public money is going into that? How about 10 putting that onto the computer? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, the 12 resolution is quite explanatory. This was 13 worked out between both houses, and basically 14 the information that is on here is basically the 15 same information that is offered in the state of 16 California and some of the other states that are 17 presently on the Internet system. And at least 18 for the present time, this resolution is going 19 to deal with opening up this portion of 20 information in state government to people, 21 taxpayers, people at home who have Internet on 22 their home computer. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 8009 1 you will continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: How about 5 giving people -- a lot of this information, as 6 Senator Gold properly pointed out, is available 7 not only by going to the desk, there is a 1-800 8 number, and you can call and you can get that. 9 I think the public would like to know how their 10 money is being spent. 11 Wouldn't it be wonderful, you go 12 to a computer and however that works -- I'm 13 computer illiterate, so I don't know and I'm 14 imagining, and I guess you press "Libous," 15 L-i-b-o-u-s, and you say "mailings," and it 16 flashes out "840,000 pieces of mail" or 17 something like that, and somebody would see. I 18 mean isn't that something we ought to let the 19 taxpayers know about? Wouldn't that be useful? 20 I mean to let them know on Consolidated Laws, 21 you know, that's... 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 23 Libous. 8010 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Let me reiterate 2 what's in this resolution. There are about 3 15,000 Internet users in the United States, 4 several thousand in the State of New York. They 5 are not able to be here tonight in Albany at 6 4:30 a.m., but maybe tomorrow morning they would 7 like to see exactly what we passed, how we voted 8 on what we passed, and they can do that through 9 their computer access network through Internet. 10 They can't do that right now. They don't have 11 access to that right now. But this will allow 12 that when we go online January 1 of 1995. 13 So that kind of information, Mr. 14 President, to me is very important to the 15 taxpayers, and I know that Senator Leichter 16 would like to go on and provide all kinds of 17 information. But, Senator, I see this as a 18 major first step. We have many folks supporting 19 this and the Internet system is going to provide 20 this information, and I think that it's a very 21 historic step for New York State. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 23 let me just - 8011 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 2 Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: On the 4 resolution. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 6 resolution. I, frankly, don't think it is a 7 very significant step. What people are always 8 interested in how is my money being spent. 9 That's what we ought to tell them. They would 10 love to know, Senator, and I can see them 11 running to their computers. 12 I don't believe if this system 13 were in place that tomorrow morning people would 14 be lining up at the library at 9:00 o'clock, 15 "Gee, I would like to know what the Legislature 16 was doing," and maybe it's just as well if they 17 saw what we did. 18 But, Senator, I would suspect 19 there would be quite a lot of users if they knew 20 they could get the information as to how their 21 money is being spent. I think that would be 22 meaningful, and that's what we've asked you 23 people. 8012 1 So to come and forward and say 2 "This is open government," this isn't open 3 government. Open government is giving people 4 information that is important to them, that 5 discloses vital activities of government -- and 6 nothing is more vital than how money is being 7 spent -- and, indeed, information that you try 8 to keep secret from the public, from other 9 members of the Legislature, and so on. 10 So when you do that, Senator, 11 that would be something worth doing on the eve 12 of July 4th, because that would really be an 13 Independence Day act. 14 Thank you. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 16 In the spirit of open government, I would like 17 to open this up to anyone who would like to be a 18 co-sponsor on this resolution. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Let's 20 adopt the resolution. The resolution is open to 21 anyone. It's up to the leaders how they wanted 22 that to be. Approach the desk if you want to be 23 on the resolution. 8013 1 On the resolution, all those in 2 favor, aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Those opposed, nay. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Sounds like it's been adopted. 7 Senator Present. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 9 Can we take up Calendar 392 on our first 10 calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 392 on 12 Calendar Number 1. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page 6 of the 14 regular calendar, Calendar Number 392, by Member 15 of the Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Bill Number 16 9806A, Criminal Procedure Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 18 the last section. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, no, wait a 20 minute. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 22 right. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, all right. 8014 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. Nays 9 3. Senators Galiber, Gold and Leichter recorded 10 in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we take up 15 Calendar 600 in our first calendar. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 600. 17 Secretary will read it. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 -- on page 9, Calendar Number 600, by the 20 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 21 Number 12112, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 23 the last section. 8015 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: 646. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 646. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 646, substituted earlier, by Member of the 13 Assembly Robach, Assembly Bill Number 2817C, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law and the General 15 Municipal Law in relation to raffles. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 18 Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 20 message of necessity at the desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 22 is. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 8016 1 accept the message. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All in 3 favor of accepting the message of necessity, say 4 aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Those opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The message is accepted. 9 Read the last section. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 12 Explanation. Senator DeFrancisco. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Earlier 14 this year or late last year -- I've lost track 15 of time at this moment, but there was a raffle 16 that was to be held for the -- a raffle of a car 17 in Syracuse by Vera House, a group that raises 18 money to assist battered women, much the same as 19 many of these raffles have been going on 20 throughout the state over the years, and what 21 happened was someone complained to the Attorney 22 General's office and the raffle had to be called 23 back and the money had to be returned. 8017 1 In doing research, I found that 2 this has happened in other areas of the state, 3 and there were many bills that were floating 4 around over time. What I did was put together 5 all of the bills on this subject and ran them by 6 the Racing and Wagering Board, as well as the 7 Attorney General, to make sure that they 8 complied with all laws and that there would be 9 reporting requirements that would assure that 10 there would be no criminal activity involved in 11 it, and this is the product of the work, and I 12 do have a letter of support from the Attorney 13 General, and we did get the consent or at least 14 the affirmance of the language from the Racing 15 and Wagering Board, and it's a bill that we 16 drafted, although the Assembly passed it before 17 we did. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'm 22 trying to find a copy of the bill. I don't know 23 whether it was distributed or what, but I can't 8018 1 seem to find a copy. My notes indicate -- well, 2 let me ask you. Under current law, what is the 3 limit that you can have for a raffle prize? 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: To answer 5 your question, I believe it's in the black book 6 has the bill in it. It's an early bill. It was 7 out in one of the early calendars, I think. 8 I'm sorry. What was the 9 question? 10 SENATOR GOLD: Under existing 11 law, what is the maximum amount of a raffle 12 prize? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Under 14 existing law, technically you can't do a raffle 15 because it's been interpreted as a violation of 16 the provision in the Constitution against 17 lotteries. And although raffles take place all 18 the time in church functions and not-for-profit 19 organizations, technically, they are not legal. 20 The Attorney General's Office and 21 the D.A.s offices for years have been winking at 22 these things and haven't been enforcing them. 23 And, quite frankly, when a student sells a 8019 1 raffle ticket or one of you had purchased a 2 raffle ticket both individuals would have been 3 technically violating the law. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, my 5 understanding is that in order to have any kind 6 of gambling in this state, we have to have it by 7 constitutional fiat. Isn't that true? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 9 don't know if it's a fiat. 10 SENATOR GOLD: I mean the 11 Constitution, as I understand it, bars gambling 12 except as specifically set forth. And my 13 question is does the Constitution allow 14 raffles? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, the 16 constitution prohibits lotteries, and that was 17 one of the legal issues that we had to overcome, 18 whether or not there is a difference between 19 raffles and lotteries. And that's precisely why 20 we sought and obtained, which is sort of 21 unusual, a letter of support from the Attorney 22 General's Office indicating that they have 23 reviewed the bill and that they believe that it 8020 1 it follows -- that it is sufficient and does not 2 require a constitutional amendment. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the other 4 question I have is, the raffle shall have no 5 single prize -- let me see -- 50,000 except an 6 organization -- single prize up to 100,000. 7 We are talking about authorizing 8 $100,000 raffles? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My original 10 bill was $25,000 to take into accounts the 11 raffles of vehicles - 12 SENATOR GOLD: Of cars. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- which 14 occurs all the time. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Unfor 17 tunately that wasn't the final version after 18 negotiating it with the Assembly. They wanted a 19 higher prize, and that's where it got to the 20 $50,000, and the aggregate of $100,000 for the 21 entire year. There are reporting requirements 22 similar to the reporting requirements that are 23 now in effect for Bingos or other activities 8021 1 that are currently legal and operating in the 2 State of New York, and those reporting 3 requirements were continued on with this 4 particular bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. Nays 4. 13 Senators Cook, Padavan, Pataki and Tully 14 recorded in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 644. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 644. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 644, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein, 23 Assembly Bill Number 7151, Criminal Procedure 8022 1 Law and the Family Court Act, on page 10 of the 2 regular calendar. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: 644. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I'm 5 sorry. 644 is not on - 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 Mr. President. I can be helpful. I can. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 9 Gold, be helpful. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Mr. 11 President. As we know, we have a calendar 12 that's printed every day and then we get an 13 active list from the Majority Leader. This bill 14 was on the calendar, was not on the original 15 active list. 16 But my notes indicate that there 17 are memos in support and also a memorandum in 18 opposition, and I would ask that the bill be 19 held temporarily so we can get our file on this 20 and see what those memorandums are. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 22 Levy, what's your pleasure? 23 SENATOR LEVY: Would you like me 8023 1 to explain it in the meantime? 2 SENATOR GOLD: No, I would like 3 to read the memos myself. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 5 temporarily. 6 Calendar 813. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 813. 8 Secretary will read it. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 10 Calendar Number 813, by Member of the Assembly 11 John, Assembly Bill Number 10571A, an act to 12 amend the County Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 813 are Senators 22 Cook, Farley, Kuhl, Nozzolio, Present, Saland 23 and Wright. Ayes 53. Nays 7. Also Senator 8024 1 Rath, also Senator Daly. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 3 Results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. Nays 9. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 867. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 867. 9 Secretary will read it. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 867, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein, 12 Assembly Bill Number 2153A, Civil Service Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 941. 8025 1 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 941. 2 The Secretary will read that. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 941, substituted earlier, by the Assembly 5 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 11933A, 6 Environmental Conservation Law. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Is there a 8 message of necessity at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: There 10 is a message of necessity. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 12 accept the message. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: All 14 those in favor of accepting the message, say 15 aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Those opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The message is accepted. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President. Can we have the calendar number, 22 please. I apologize. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8026 1 941, in the original calendar of the day, page 2 16. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 12 bill is passed. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1064. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1064. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1064, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 6730A, 17 an act to amend the Education Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 23 the roll. 8027 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: That 4 bill is passed. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1629. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1629. 7 THE SECRETARY: Secretary will 8 read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Supplemental 10 Calendar Number 1, Calendar 1629, by the 11 Assembly Committee on Rules, substituted 12 earlier, Assembly Bill Number 8001A, an act to 13 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 23 bill is passed. 8028 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Return to 2 Calendar 644. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 644. 4 That's the original calendar, regular calendar. 5 THE SECRETARY: On page 10 of the 6 regular calendar, Calendar Number 644, by member 7 of the Assembly Weinstein, Assembly Bill Number 8 7151, Criminal Procedure Law. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 11 Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator Levy 13 yield to a question? 14 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Yes, he 16 will. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Levy, why 18 don't you just in a sentence tell everybody what 19 the bill is. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. There is an 21 omission in the law as it relates to orders of 22 examination. Psychologists are permitted to 23 succeed orders of examination in all instances 8029 1 but are omitted in juvenile delinquency 2 proceedings. This bill cures that omission. 3 SENATOR GOLD: All right. Put a 4 different way, Senator, it's not that they were 5 omitted. The answer is they are permitted where 6 the people involved are adults. Is that 7 correct. 8 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 9 SENATOR GOLD: That's been in the 10 law for about five years? 11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 12 SENATOR GOLD: And this would 13 extend the law to people who are not adults? 14 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 16 I would just like to point out 17 that New York State Psychological Association 18 supports this and DC 37 supports it, and the 19 medical society has filed in opposition. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 22 the last section. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 8030 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 5 Levy yield just to one question, very simple, to 6 make sure I understand it at this early hour. 7 This would allow the psychologists to do it for 8 children, to do the examination? 9 SENATOR LEVY: In juvenile 10 delinquency proceedings, in JD proceedings. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In juvenile 12 delinquency proceedings. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8031 1 the negative on Calendar Number 644 are Senators 2 Farley, Kuhl, Larkin, Nozzolio, Saland, Spano, 3 Wright, also Senator Present. Ayes 52. Nays 8. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Calendar 1028. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 1028. 8 THE SECRETARY: Page 18 on the 9 regular calendar of today, Calendar Number 1028, 10 by Member of the Assembly Nolan, Assembly Bill 11 Number 2235B, Public Authorities Law. 12 SENATOR LEVY: Last section. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Libous. 8032 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 2 Can I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar 644. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: 644, 5 without objection. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 8 There being no further business, I move that we 9 adjourn until 5:00 a.m. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senate 11 stands adjourned until 5:00 a.m. I adjourn the 12 session. 13 (Whereupon, at 4:58 a.m., Senate 14 adjourned.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23