Wednesday, February 15, 1995

1174 1 2 3 4 ALBANY, NEW YORK 5 February 15, 1995 6 10:02 a.m. 7 8 9 REGULAR SESSION 10 11 12 13 SENATOR JOHN A. DeFRANCISCO, Acting President 14 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1175 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 The Senate will come to order. I'd ask everyone 4 to please rise and join with me to repeat the 5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 8 In the absence of clergy, I would 9 request that each of us bow our heads in a 10 moment of silence. 11 (A moment of silence was 12 observed. ) 13 Reading of the Journal. 14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 15 Tuesday, February 14th. The Senate met pursuant 16 to adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 17 designation of the Temporary President. The 18 Journal of Monday, February 13th, was read and 19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 21 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 22 as read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 1176 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: We have none. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 None. O.K. Thank you. 8 Reports of select committees. 9 Communications and reports from 10 state officers. 11 Motions and resolutions. 12 Senator DiCarlo. 13 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 14 on behalf of Senator Goodman, on page 10, I 15 offer the following amendments to Calendar 99, 16 Senate Print Number 1613, and ask that said bill 17 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 19 Amendments are received. 20 Senator Bruno? 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 22 understand there's a resolution at the desk. 23 May we have it read and adopted? 1177 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Secretary will read. 3 Senator, it's my understanding 4 the family will be down and they're not 5 presently here. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: May we then move 7 to the non-controversial calendar, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 Secretary will read the non-controversial 11 calendar. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 58, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 655, 14 an act to amend the Penal Law and the General 15 Business Law, in relation to misapplication of 16 property by refusal to return such property. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 22 Please call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 1178 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 The bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 60, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number - 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 Lay the bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 63, by Senator Padavan, Senate Bill Number 1286, 11 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 12 in relation to spectators at exhibitions of 13 animal fighting. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 15 Please read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the 1st day of November 18 next succeeding the date on which it shall have 19 become a law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 21 Please call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 1179 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 The bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 70, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 5 317-A - 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 Lay the bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 100, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill Number 2241, 11 an act to amend the Penal Law, the Criminal 12 Procedure Law, the Judiciary Law, the County Law 13 and the Correction Law, in relation to the 14 imposition of the death penalty. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Read the last 16 -- lay aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Lay the bill aside. 19 Senator Larkin. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 21 there will be an immediate meeting -- an 22 immediate meeting of the Local Government 23 Committee in Room 332. 1180 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Meeting of the Local Government Committee 3 immediately in Room 332. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we now move 8 to the controversial calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 60, by Senator Levy, Senate Bill Number 773. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 15 Lay the bill aside. Is that for the day, 16 Senator? 17 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 19 The bill is laid aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 70, by Senator Johnson, Senate Bill Number 22 317-A. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 1181 1 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 2 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to 3 maximum speed limits. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: An 5 explanation has been asked for. 6 Senator Johnson. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 8 the purpose of this bill is to do what 42 other 9 states have done, permit the Thruway Authority 10 and the DOT to raise the speed limit to 65 miles 11 per hour on the eligible portions of interstates 12 in the state of New York, and divided highways. 13 There are 1400 miles eligible in this state. 14 People already are doing 65, 67 on these roads. 15 Essentially, what it will do is 16 have our state conform to the standards of most 17 other states, and it will legitamatize the 18 proper speed at which people are presently 19 traveling, permitting them to look forward when 20 they drive and not in their rear view mirror, 21 necessitating, perhaps permitting the dropping 22 of radar detectors and other things to protect 23 themselves against enforcement of a 55-mile-an 1182 1 hour speed limit capriciously, which may be done 2 in some cases now. 3 So it's really getting in tune 4 with the times. It's not going to have any 5 negative effects. It's going to be a positive 6 effect on the state of New York in terms of 7 maintaining good speeds. You can get where you 8 want to go safely on roads designed for those 9 speeds. 10 That's about it, Mr. President. 11 It permits this limit to be raised. It does not 12 require it to be done; so it's at the -- at the 13 desire of the Department. 14 (A beeper was heard.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Not a message 18 I'm getting here. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 20 Johnson yield for a question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 22 Senator, will you yield? 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. Yes, Mr. 1183 1 President. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: First of all, 3 Senator, I really think that, in light of the 4 new speed limit, this should have been Calendar 5 Number 65, because I thought you wanted to raise 6 the speed limit to 70. 7 But putting that aside, what I 8 think I wanted to ask you is that we already 9 know that the fatalities were decreased by 28 10 percent when we lowered the speed limit to 55. 11 So my question to you is, do you have any kind 12 of statistical data on how this will affect the 13 fatalities, also given the fact that trucks that 14 carry over 28,000 pounds and also school buses 15 which are very large, could contribute to that? 16 Do you have any information on that? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Johnson. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 20 President, if I may address a question. The 21 statement which you made, Senator, was something 22 happened when we went to 55. I don't understand 23 what that reference was. Will you explain that 1184 1 to me? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: After, in 5 1973, we lowered the speed limit originally to 6 50 and then it went back to 55, over the 10-year 7 period after the speed limit was originally 8 lowered there was a 28 percent reduction in 9 fatalities. So my question to you is, if we 10 increase the speed limit from 55 to 65, do you 11 have any statistical data from the states that 12 have increased the speed limit as to how that 13 affected the number of fatalities? 14 I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Johnson. 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, 18 Senator. Senator Farley would like to speak. 19 Perhaps I'd let him respond to that. Is that 20 what you'd like to do, Senator? 21 SENATOR FARLEY: Respond to that 22 question. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: O.K. Fine, and 1185 1 then I'll be glad to respond further if you 2 desire. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Farley. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll put it in 7 the form of a question. Did you know, Senator 8 Paterson, that the Lave study in 1992 showed 9 that the statewide fatality rate in those states 10 which adopted the higher speed limit actually 11 declined from 3 to 5 percent? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 13 Senator Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Mr. President, I'd like Senator 17 Farley to know that I did not know that. That's 18 why I asked the question, and -- but what I 19 thought might be the case about that particular 20 study is that it was based on miles traveled, 21 not based on the actual increase in the speed 22 limit. If I'm wrong about that, I'd like you to 23 explain it. 1186 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Farley. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: It's my 4 understanding that it was based on those states 5 that raised the speed limit to 65 from 55. 6 There are so many factors that go into why the 7 fatalities have dropped or raised, and so 8 forth. Quite frankly, I think that the 9 aggressive drunk driving laws throughout the 10 nation had a great deal to do with that. As a 11 matter of fact, so many things take credit for 12 either reducing or being responsible for 13 accidents. 14 I think that -- and I -- Senator 15 Johnson and I have worked on this bill for a 16 number of years, but I -- I truly believe that 17 in New York State, 96 percent of the people do 18 not obey the 55-mile-an-hour speed limit. But 19 we'll talk to that later. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Will -- would 23 Senator Johnson or Senator Farley, or would 1187 1 anyone be willing to answer this question? The 2 Insurance Institute, in a memo I have, says that 3 in 1992, in the 40 states that increased the 4 speed limit from 55 to 65, that the fatalities 5 increased by 17 percent as opposed to a study 6 about the 55-mile-an-hour speed limit conducted 7 from 1982 to 1986. 8 I'm just not necessarily going to 9 vote against the bill. I'm just trying to 10 determine what the increase in the fatalities 11 are. 12 Now, just to be fair to Senator 13 Johnson and to Senator Farley, there are 50,000 14 people who get killed on the highways every 15 year, but we as a society have determined that 16 we're not going to stop driving cars. So I 17 don't want to come across to either one of you 18 as having such a platitude or a high morality 19 that now we're all going to start walking every 20 place we go, or I'll be getting here a little 21 late every Monday. 22 So that the -- all I'm really 23 trying to ascertain, I would think that it would 1188 1 be somewhat of an increase in the fatalities 2 based on the increased speed, but that doesn't 3 necessarily mean that we're not going to do it. 4 We may be incurring a lot of problems and maybe 5 even fatalities from a speed limit that's often 6 too low, but the Insurance Institute does advise 7 us that the fatalities have increased 17 percent 8 in 1992 in the 40 states that have increased the 9 speed limit, and I just want to know if that is 10 consistent with what your understanding is. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 12 Senator Johnson, would you like to reply? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I'd like 14 to -- I'd like to discuss this further because 15 you know the old saying, figures can lie and 16 liars can figure, and I'm not saying anybody is 17 lying here, but I'm saying figures can be 18 interpreted or misinterpreted in various 19 manners. 20 Now, a study which I -- that I'd 21 like to refer to here said that those states 22 that have raised their interstate speed limit to 23 65 miles an hour recorded a 6 percent decline in 1189 1 the fatality rate, whereas states that did not 2 raise their limit experienced a much smaller 3 decline of only 2.5 percent. 4 Now, I think this has as much 5 validity as other figures which might have been 6 cited. Now, we may not be talking about the 7 same road because you can understand that, when 8 you can go 55 miles an hour on a dirt road and 9 55 miles an hour on the Thruway and the dirt 10 road is shorter, then they prefer to take that 11 road and skid off the road. 12 On the other hand, when you can 13 go 65 on the Thruway, people -- more people may 14 go on the Thruway figuring there's a legitimate 15 way to travel a little bit faster and get there 16 sooner. So some say they've experienced an 17 increased amount of traffic on the roads which 18 are permitted to go 65. So that may explain the 19 divergence here, but overall there's been a 20 decrease in the fatality rate consistently year 21 by year every year almost, irrespective of what 22 we have done or what the speed limits have 23 been. 1190 1 In fact, it's kind of interesting 2 to know that one of the principal things you 3 could do is to have a consistent speed limit for 4 all vehicles and, if you have that, you have a 5 lot less problems than some vehicles going 6 slower and some going faster, and so forth. 7 I have a chart here. Obviously 8 you can't see it all, but it shows here that 9 from '74 to the last year is '93, there's been a 10 consistent decline in fatalities and accident 11 rates per hundred thousand -- hundred million 12 vehicle miles, almost irrespective of the speed 13 limit, and so I think the speed limit has very 14 little effect on accident rates. 15 You know, before the federal 16 government got into the business of setting 17 speed limits on our highways, the speed limits 18 were set by engineers in the Department of 19 Transportation, the Thruway Authority, and they 20 did it by what they called their 85th 21 percentile, survey the traffic over a period of 22 time, see how fast people are going generally, 23 knock off the 15 percent so-called speeders, and 1191 1 that is the level at which they set the speed 2 limit. That speed limit now is about 66 to 67 3 miles an hour in this state. 4 So if we set the speed limit at 5 65, most people would be conforming with the 6 speed limit. They will be able to travel 7 expeditiously where they want to go without 8 looking in their rear view mirror because they 9 will know they will not be violating the law. 10 Right now, there's nobody in this house who can 11 tell me honestly that he drives to Albany or 12 anywhere else on the Thruway or our other 13 interstates at 55 miles an hour. 14 SENATOR LACK: Senator Levy. 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: If you do, you 16 are an aberration, you're a saint, you're really 17 not credible, but if you say it, I'll believe 18 it. 19 SENATOR LACK: Senator Levy 20 there. 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: So it's hard to 22 believe. Let us be honest. Let us not be - 23 let us not join in the charade which has been 1192 1 put on for too many years by this state of New 2 York and others trying to demonstrate to the 3 federal government that we have a majority of 4 our people complying with the law when we know 5 we don't. The last survey shows 96 percent of 6 the people exceeding 55 miles an hour. O.K. 7 Let's get it in the program. That's all I can 8 tell you. 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 11 Farley, you were next on the list. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me just say 13 that I rise in support of this bill. I feel 14 very strongly that any piece of legislation or 15 law that is not respected is a bad law. That 16 was evidenced by the Prohibition Act in the 17 '20s. It was the start of organized crime. I 18 think it's also evidenced by the 21-year-old 19 drinking age. If anyone in here thinks that the 20 college students at 20 years of age are not 21 drinking, and so forth, they still believe in 22 the tooth fairy. 23 But let me just say this about 1193 1 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit on the rural 2 interstates, and so forth. I think it's 3 something that the people of this state want. 4 It's evidenced by the fact that 96 percent of 5 the people that drive the rural sections of the 6 Thruway do not obey the 55-mile-an-hour speed 7 limit. As a matter of fact, I think you're 8 safer on these interstate highways at 65 than 9 you are on some of the rural highways at 55. 10 But let me just say this. I 11 think that what we're talking about, one of the 12 criticisms that is always raised, if you raise 13 the speed limit to 50 -- 65, they'll drive 75 14 and 85. I've talked to the Superintendent of 15 State Police. The 55-mile-an-hour speed limit, 16 even though they won't say it, is kind of an 17 embarrassment to the troopers and to the State 18 Police because they have to give you such a 19 latitude, or otherwise they'd be arresting 20 everyone. Yes, they can give you a little bit 21 of grace, but I suspect that they should be 22 arresting people that are flagrantly violating 23 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit on the 1194 1 interstates. 2 It's a good piece of legisla 3 tion. A similar piece of legislation which has 4 passed the Assembly, passed overwhelmingly, I 5 think with around 20 negative votes out of 150. 6 I worked with Assemblyman Bragman on this 7 legislation over the years. We've still got to 8 work out some kinks. I don't think you've seen 9 the final piece of legislation. What he's 10 talking about is a possible study to see how it 11 works out. We don't have any great quarrel with 12 that. I don't want to speak for the -- for all 13 the sponsors, but I suspect that we can work out 14 a piece of legislation which will bring us into 15 reality as to what the speed limit should be in 16 this state. 17 Let me just tell you that the 18 state -- the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, last 19 night their Legislature raised the speed limit 20 to 65, and I understand that the state of 21 Maryland is also -- the governor has spoken 22 favorably on raising the speed limit, so at 23 least we can be consistent. You know when 1195 1 somebody comes into New York State from Ohio, as 2 Senator Present would know, they all of a sudden 3 they've been driving 65 for -- from across 4 country, they hit New York State, and they're 5 immediately breaking the law, almost all of 6 them, as they come into our state. 7 And let me just say something 8 about trucks. A truck actually gets its most 9 fuel-efficient delivery, if you will, at 60 10 miles an hour and, of course, I think you'll see 11 that trucks that are speeding will be arrested, 12 but I think particularly in the rural sections 13 -- and this doesn't apply every place in the 14 state -- for instance, most of Long Island will 15 be exempted except for a small section of 16 Suffolk County, as I understand it, and because 17 that is heavily populated, so I think it's a 18 reasonable piece of legislation. 19 I would ask the support of my 20 colleagues to realize that there are polls that 21 have been taken overwhelmingly support the 22 raising of the speed limit to 65. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 1196 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Solomon, do you have a question? 4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator 5 Dollinger. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I do, Mr. 7 President. Will Senator Farley yield to a 8 question? 9 SENATOR FARLEY: I certainly do. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I find this 11 an intriguing piece of legislation, I'm going to 12 address it in a minute, but my question to you 13 is two years from now when the statistics show 14 that 95 percent of the people, instead of the 96 15 percent of the people that violate the 55-mile 16 an-hour speed limit, that 95 percent are 17 violating the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit, will 18 we then raise the speed limit to 75 miles an 19 hour? 20 SENATOR FARLEY: No, I don't 21 think we will, Senator Dollinger. I think 22 you'll see people who are flagrantly violating 23 the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit, will be 1197 1 arrested. That's just taken on the word of the 2 State Police Superintendent. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just again 4 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Farley 5 will yield to another question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Farley, will you yield to another 8 question? 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What are we 12 going to do then to the State Police to have 13 them more rigorously enforce the 65-mile-an-hour 14 instead of the 55 miles an hour? It seems to me 15 a scofflaw at 70 in a 65-mile-an-hour is the 16 same thing as a scofflaw at 65 in a 55, 17 correct? Going five miles an hour faster than 18 the speed limit. If they don't arrest them now, 19 how do you expect they'll arrest them in the 20 future? 21 SENATOR FARLEY: I expect they 22 will - 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What's your 1198 1 basis for that, again through you, Mr. 2 President? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Farley? 5 SENATOR FARLEY: The same basis 6 that you feel that they won't because I think 7 that you'll find that in Tennessee, and so 8 forth, that have gone to the 65-mile-an-hour 9 speed limit, they don't give you that latitude. 10 The states that are at 55 give a tremendous 11 latitude to the drivers that are breaking the 12 55-mile-an-hour speed limit, because they feel 13 that it's unreasonable. 14 Do you always drive 55 miles an 15 hour on the Thruway - 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: -- Senator 18 Dollinger? 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I drive on 20 the high side of 55. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: How high a 22 side? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 55.9 1199 1 usually. 2 Mr. President, I have no further 3 questions. 4 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Solomon. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yeah. Will 8 Senator Farley yield, please? 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, I 12 heard your comments regarding the impact of 13 raising speed limits to 65 miles an hour. Are 14 you aware that the Insurance Institute studies 15 show that states -- that states that have raised 16 the rural and state limits, about 400 more lives 17 are lost each year because of the higher 18 limits? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Senator Farley? 21 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm aware of the 22 insurance industry's concern with this, but let 23 me just say this, Senator Solomon: The most 1200 1 respected report on this topic, a report to 2 Congress by the National Highway Safety and 3 Traffic Administration issued in May of 1992, 4 explicitly cautions that care should be taken in 5 interpreting changes in rural interstate 6 fatality and travel characteristics. 7 No statistical model is capable 8 of controlling all of the factors that have 9 affected rural interstate fatalities since the 10 enactment of the 65-mile-an-hour speed limits. 11 Again, I think, as Senator Johnson clearly said, 12 you can do almost anything that you want with 13 statistics. What we're talking about is the 14 rural sections of the interstates. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Will 16 Senator Farley yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Farley? 19 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, what 21 I'm concerned about, maybe you can tell me, in 22 terms of the impact this will have on automobile 23 insurance rates in some of these areas, can you 1201 1 tell me if you've done any studies regarding 2 that? 3 SENATOR FARLEY: No. All I can 4 offer is a speculation. I don't think it's 5 going to have any great impact when you find 6 that most studies have showed that states have 7 -- that have gone to the 65-mile-an-hour speed 8 limit, I told you the Lave study of 1992, that's 9 not that old, that states that have gone to it 10 -- and I can't explain that -- the fatality 11 rate has actually declined; so maybe insurance 12 rates will go down. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 14 will Senator Farley yield? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Farley, will you yield? 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, I will. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, are 19 you aware that the major factors in determining 20 what the automobile insurance rates are is the 21 accident costs? 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me hear that 23 again. 1202 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: -- that the 2 major factor in determining automobile insurance 3 rates are the accident costs? 4 SENATOR FARLEY: Right. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: And in light of 6 that, that according to the Insurance Institute 7 for Highway Safety, a frontal impact of 35 miles 8 per hour has one-third more of -- is a one-third 9 more violent impact than an accident at 30 miles 10 an hour. Have you calculated any of that, 11 looked into any of this, in terms of these 12 automobile insurance costs and how that has an 13 impact? 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Well, I think 15 it's reasonable to assume that an automobile 16 that is going faster that has an impact is going 17 to have greater damage. I think we can all 18 accept that. 19 SENATOR SOLOMON: So if that's 20 going to occur and the severity increases, in 21 fact geometrically, how can you say this is not 22 going to have an impact on insurance rates? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 1203 1 Senator Farley? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: How -- Senator 3 Solomon, I understand your great concern for 4 insurance rates, but answer me this because it 5 just came to me: Did the insurance rates go down 6 on anybody's automobile when the speed limit 7 went from 65 to 55? I don't recall that. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 9 Senator Solomon. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, I 11 don't really recall that far back. As I recall, 12 the rates were dropped because, in fact, the 13 federal government had mandated the change in 14 the speed limits. Otherwise we lost significant 15 amounts of highway aid. 16 SENATOR FARLEY: When we went to 17 55 miles an hour - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 19 Excuse me, Senator Farley. Do you have a 20 question of Senator Solomon? 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: As I said, I 22 don't recall, because that was in the '70s as I 23 recall, 1973 or 1974. 1204 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Farley, you still have the floor. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you. 4 Senator Solomon, I being much older than you, I 5 do recall that when we raised -- lowered the 6 speed limit to 55, my insurance rates went up. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Well -- well, 8 the only thing I do remember about it, Senator 9 -- excuse me, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 11 Senator Solomon, is this on the bill? 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: I guess it's in 13 response to his rhetorical question about 14 insurance rates going up. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Well, go ahead. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: O.K. Senator, 18 what I do recall is, if it did occur in 1974 and 19 1975, this state was also in the process of 20 changing from a liability system, from the sys 21 tem we used to have, to no-fault. In fact, I 22 believe no-fault was voted in by this Legislat 23 ure in 1976, from a historical perspective. I 1205 1 didn't serve in this Legislature at that time; I 2 know my predecessor did, and what might have had 3 the impact on your rates going up at that point 4 in time, was the current system in terms of the 5 current liability system in terms of automobile 6 insurance rates. 7 I'd like to speak on the bill 8 now. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 Yes, on the bill. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: On the bill. 12 I'm concerned two-fold: (a) is the number of 13 deaths that we've witnessed and increasing over 14 the number of years in certain states that have 15 increased their speed limits and those deaths 16 have a severe impact on society, whether it be 17 with automobile insurance costs, whether it be 18 on the impact of the family, there are many - 19 in addition, those that are not killed by the 20 severity of the impacts at the highest speeds 21 has a tremendous impact on society from 22 automobile insurance costs to people that lose 23 their jobs, to people that have accidents while 1206 1 they're on their job traveling from Point A to 2 Point B, and I think this is very serious 3 business. 4 I think the fact that another 5 state has a speed limit and when you come into 6 the state of New York you have to lower your 7 speed limit to 55 is not a valid reason. For 8 that matter, I don't have a district that's on 9 the Canadian border but, as I recall, on the 10 Thruway generally the cars that fly by anyone 11 are the ones that are from Canada because they 12 can't seem to find a brake or their accelerators 13 are weighted quite heavily, and I think the 14 Canadian speed limits are extremely high. 15 I think we really have to be 16 concerned with the impact that we're going to 17 see. You can ride down the Thruway and you'll 18 see most people do not adhere to the 55-mile-an 19 hour limit and, as I recall, before they had the 20 55-mile-an-hour limit imposed, most people did 21 not adhere to the 65-mile-an-hour limit. In 22 fact, there was an Assemblyman from my area who 23 was killed in a horrible automobile accident in 1207 1 the late '50s as a result of him driving at an 2 excessive speed, and I think what we're doing is 3 we have a few people that have raised this 4 issue. 5 How much time is really going to 6 be saved and is that amount of time that's saved 7 in an hour, that ten minutes, drive worth 8 someone's life that's attributed to the increase 9 in the speed limit? And I'm not so sure that 10 that's a valid trade-off. You're not directly 11 related to that person, it's a statistic, but 12 people that are related to that person and when 13 it's attributed to that, that's an issue. 14 The other thing that you should 15 be aware of, Senator, which I'm not sure too 16 many people know, has anyone studied or looked 17 at the fact that in most cases the beam of an 18 automobile headlight doesn't travel a sufficient 19 distance to give you sufficient stopping 20 distance in front of that vehicle or object in 21 front of you at 65 miles per hour? That's 22 another issue that hasn't been raised, and I 23 don't think has been looked at in many of these 1208 1 debates regarding the 65-mile-per-hour speed 2 limit; and indeed I think that's a concern that 3 has to be examined. 4 I think we're making a horrible 5 step. I don't think there's been enough study 6 on this. I think we're going in the wrong 7 direction because the fact of the matter is we 8 want to decrease the number of lives that are 9 lost on our highways today. We don't want to 10 increase that. We don't want to participate in 11 anything that should increase that. We all know 12 even during the Vietnam era, we still lost more 13 lives on our highways in the United States than 14 we did men over in Vietnam, and I think that's 15 something we should really be concerned about in 16 this issue. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Levy. 19 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Thank you 20 very much, Mr. President. 21 I think that it's really 22 unfortunate that -- that this bill is here this 23 morning being discussed, but we really did not 1209 1 have a choice because Senator Johnson, Senator 2 Farley, myself, Senator Bruno, we were involved 3 in discussions with the other house in trying to 4 respond to the real problems, the real concerns 5 that have been raised on the floor this morning 6 and some more that I'm going to talk about, and 7 the Assembly went forward and passed their 8 legislation. 9 So I agree with -- with the 10 sponsors that we've got to make a statement on 11 this important issue, and that's why this bill 12 is here today, and I'm going to vote for this 13 bill. 14 I'm only going to vote for this 15 bill because -- because the Majority Leader has 16 put together, and the Assembly has gone along 17 with it, a conference committee system. If we 18 didn't have a conference committee system in 19 place and the two houses were not going to get 20 together and discuss this bill, I would be 21 vehemently opposing this legislation, but I'm 22 not going to do it. 23 Let me talk about some of my 1210 1 concerns and echo some of the concerns that have 2 been raised on this floor and concerns that 3 absolutely must be met, and I want to tell you 4 that, if those concerns are not met, not only am 5 I not going to vote for this bill when it comes 6 back, I'm going to do everything in my power to 7 defeat it. 8 Now, here are some of the 9 concerns. Number one, the Thruway Authority 10 tells us that when the Thruway Authority was 11 constructed -- and it's not the Autobahn -- when 12 the Thruway Authority was constructed, it was 13 constructed for a maximum speed of 70 -- 70 14 miles an hour. Our interstate and state 15 highways, when they were built, they were built 16 with an eye towards an absolute maximum speed 17 from a safety standpoint of 70 miles an hour. 18 That's what DOT tells us. That's what the 19 Thruway Authority tells us. 20 Now, Senator Farley and Senator 21 Johnson and Senator Bruno and others are 22 absolutely right when they say that we -- that 23 people operating motor vehicles, particularly on 1211 1 the throughways, the interstates and the state 2 highways, are driving an average speed of 64, 3 65, 66 miles an hour, which rightly is a de 4 facto repeal of the 55 -- 55-mile-an-hour speed 5 limit in the state of New York. It is de facto 6 repealed, because not only is the public 7 operating motor vehicles at these speeds but the 8 law enforcement officers really on rare, rare 9 occasions are enforcing the 55-mile-an-hour 10 speed limit. So that's what we're dealing with 11 -- with factually, on an ongoing basis. 12 Now, what are the concerns? And 13 Senator Paterson and Senator Solomon really have 14 raised those concerns, and I don't buy -- I 15 don't buy for a moment that when we go to 65, 16 all the drivers are going to be like Senator 17 Dollinger and they're only going to drive at 18 65.9. The real concern is that, when we go to 19 65, people are going to go 70. 20 That's a concern, but an even 21 greater concern is we are going to have people 22 out there going 75 on highways that are 23 engineered for a maximum speed of 70, they're 1212 1 going to be going 80 and they're going to be 2 going above those speeds. 3 Now, why does that concern me? It 4 concerns me not only for the average person 5 operating a motor vehicle, but it concerns me 6 for the four-leaf clover, that rare person who 7 is transporting children to school. It's a 8 four-leaf clover because the overwhelming 9 majority of people who are transporting kids to 10 or from school or the school bus or school van 11 are not going to go over 55 miles an hour, but 12 for that four-leaf clover that decides that he 13 or she is going to go 60, 65 or above, we've got 14 to deter that. 15 Now, one of the problems that we 16 have with deterring that kind of a situation is 17 when the federal people in 1973 gave us 55 miles 18 an hour, what they said was that no state in the 19 nation that hasn't put into place a differential 20 that we don't have the power to make a 21 differential for somebody operating a school bus 22 or school van or other vehicle transporting 23 school children. We don't have the power to do 1213 1 it based upon the 1973 federal law. But there's 2 a way to deal with that, and I'm going to tell 3 you how it has to be dealt with in the future. 4 Another grave concern that I have 5 are trucks over 18,000 pounds. We have trucks 6 with cargos that weigh up to 75 tons operating 7 on the highways of the state of New York and on 8 the Thruway, and that's a concern, but it's a 9 greater concern when we think for a moment that 10 those trucks, as well as other vehicles, operate 11 in all kinds of weather. 12 But it's an even greater concern 13 because, when we think about the cargos of some 14 of those trucks -- explosives, gasoline, 15 propane, liquefied natural gas and radioactive 16 materials, that is a concern that has to be 17 dealt with, but the fed's have said we really 18 cannot deal with that based upon the '73 law. 19 But we can. 20 When the Transportation Committee 21 had our new Commissioner Richard Jackson before 22 us yesterday, I talked to him privately before 23 yesterday, and at our meeting we discussed 1214 1 dealing with deterring somebody that operates 2 that truck over 18,000 pounds, somebody that 3 operates a school bus, even Senator Farley and 4 Senator Johnson and Senator Dollinger and me and 5 everybody else that operates a motor vehicle, 6 and the Commissioner -- the Commissioner has 7 agreed that he is going to look at points. 8 Now, points is a major, major 9 deterrent to people operating motor vehicles. 10 He's going to look at the point system. The 11 fed's said we can't do a law, but nobody said 12 that Richard Jackson and Governor Pataki cannot 13 change the point system to deter anybody who is 14 going to drive over 65 miles an hour and 15 particularly over 70 miles an hour, and 16 particularly if it's a truck over 18,000 pounds 17 or it's a school bus. So that's one way to 18 deter a real concern that people, when you go to 19 65, are just going to self-adjust and say, I'm 20 going to get -- I'm going to be able to go 70, 21 75, and the law enforcement people are not going 22 to cite me and give me a ticket. 23 Also realistically, part of the 1215 1 problem that we have here is the problem for law 2 enforcement, because with the technical radar 3 equipment that we have today, in some jurisdic 4 tions where they have older equipment, not only 5 is there a de facto repeal of the speed limit, 6 but because of the qualifying of the equipment 7 for a prosecution if somebody is given a ticket, 8 the law enforcement people in some jurisdictions 9 automatically give an additional five miles that 10 relates to the reliability of the equipment. So 11 that immediately takes us from 65 when we go to 12 65, to 70. 13 State Police say with some of - 14 some of the new technical equipment, they will 15 use a two-mile-an-hour differential and not the 16 differential that is used on -- on other 17 equipment. 18 So what we should be doing here, 19 at least in my judgment, is some of the things 20 that we've talked about with points, some of the 21 things that we -- we have talked about or I'm 22 going to talk about in a moment, and that is we 23 have reached out to the state Department of 1216 1 Education. The Commissioner has the power, 2 through his rules and regulations, to say in 3 those rules and regulations, without a problem 4 with the federal people, that no school -- no 5 motor vehicle transporting pupils in the state 6 of New York can travel in excess of 55 miles an 7 hour, and we have to be assured -- we have to be 8 assured that the Commissioner can do that, 9 because if he does do it, he has the power to 10 disqualify anyone operating a vehicle 11 transporting pupils from ever working again if 12 that person is convicted of going over 55 miles 13 an hour or any limit -- any limit that the 14 Commissioner sets. 15 And finally, when we get this 16 bill back, we've got to -- we've got to try to 17 -- we've got to try to resolve and explain on 18 this floor the disparity in studies, and that's 19 an ongoing process and, when it comes back, I 20 for one am going to try to address myself to 21 that, because I have the same statistics that 22 Senator Solomon and Senator Paterson have, only 23 the statistics that I have from the Insurance 1217 1 Institute of Highway Safety doesn't give a 17 2 percent increase in fatalities, it gives a 28 3 percent increase in fatalities, and that is in 4 sharp -- in sharp contrast to -- to the study 5 that Senator Farley has and has reviewed, 6 certainly in good faith. 7 Finally, another dimension that 8 we've got to take a look at, and incidentally 9 we're going to be putting this all into a piece 10 of legislation. It will be considered by the 11 Transportation Committee when we come back, the 12 concerns that I've laid out for you this morning 13 on this floor, and hopefully and expectantly 14 we're going to have that bill before the house 15 that relates to reminding the Commissioner of 16 Motor Vehicles that he's got to look at points, 17 a mandate to the Commissioner of Education to 18 deal with the transporting of school pupils and, 19 if we're going to go to 65, we've got to 20 increase the fines and other penalties for 21 people who operate a motor vehicle and certainly 22 those people that operate any type of a motor 23 vehicle if they are traveling on our state 1218 1 highways and our Thruway, certainly in excess of 2 70 miles an hour, in excess of the speed that 3 the highways themselves were engineered for, and 4 we're going to deal with that in a piece of 5 legislation. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 7 President. Will Senator Levy yield to a 8 question? 9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 11 Senator Levy, do you yield? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Levy, 13 first of all, before I ask a question, let me 14 compliment you on your attire, although I do 15 think that the blue tie with the red stripes 16 goes better than the red with the blue. 17 I -- through you, Mr. President, 18 my question is I know that the committee 19 involving critical choices in transportation has 20 done marvelous work on a series of topics. Has 21 CTC dealt with the 65-mile-an-hour speed limit? 22 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, they dealt 23 with it about two or three or four years ago, 1219 1 and the recommendation -- the recommendation of 2 the commission through the report was that we do 3 not exceed 55, but that recommendation was made 4 when we had a governor who was opposed to -- who 5 was opposed to raising the speed limit. It had 6 Mr. Bragman, who is now the sponsor of Senator 7 Farley's bill in opposition to raising the speed 8 limit. I think previously it had Mr. Graber; it 9 had the opposition of Commissioner White, then 10 Commissioner Egan, and Commissioner Aducci and, 11 as Senator Farley pointed out, I was the author 12 of the report. 13 But I think -- I think 14 circumstances, Senator, obviously, obviously 15 have changed, and I think what Senator Farley, 16 the comment that Senator Farley made really - 17 really was appropriate to the discussion that 18 we're having. We've got a law on the books, 19 let's enforce the law because people don't have 20 respect for any laws if important laws are 21 violated. So if we're going to go this route, 22 then let's go the route, but then let's enforce 23 the law and, if we got somebody going over 70 1220 1 miles an hour, whether they're operating a motor 2 vehicle or a truck up to 75 tons, let them hit 3 -- let's hit them with a four by eight just to 4 remind them what the law is in the state of New 5 York. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 7 you, Mr. President, just one other question for 8 Senator Levy. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 10 Senator Levy, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Frankly, your 13 comprehensive approach to this is basically 14 changing my mind about my view about this bill. 15 I wish the comprehensive approach that you've 16 talked about, respecting school buses and trucks 17 and additional points, I wish that were all 18 packaged in this bill. My hope is that the 19 conference committee will do that. But let me 20 go back to the school bus problem. 21 Through you, Mr. President, isn't 22 there a problem on a highway if the cars are 23 going 65 and the trucks are going 65, but the 1221 1 school bus is only going 55? Doesn't it become 2 a problem of differential speed that can create 3 a traffic risk? 4 SENATOR LEVY: Well, in my 5 conversations with the State Police because I 6 asked the question that you're asking, but I 7 asked the question in regard to -- in regard to 8 trucks over 18,000 pounds and the answer I got 9 back from the State Police is the type of roads 10 that we are talking about, and we're obviously 11 not talking about dirt roads and that -- I'm 12 going to take a look at those statistics to see 13 how many dirt roads have a speed limit that was 14 raised in other states to 65 miles an hour. 15 The State Police said to me that 16 based upon the rural interstates and the rural 17 -- the rural parts of the Thruway, it would 18 not -- if the fed's permitted us to do so, it 19 would not have been a problem to require trucks 20 over 18,000 pounds to go at 55 miles an hour 21 because of -- because of those roads, because of 22 the fact that they are not congested and because 23 of the ability to change lanes and -- and to 1222 1 move from the fast line to the slow -- slow 2 lane. That's what the State Police told me. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: State Police 4 opinion was that there would be, in essence, two 5 different speed limits. 6 SENATOR LEVY: That that would 7 not be a safety problem on the -- on the Thruway 8 and the highways that we're talking about. If 9 we were talking about the Long Island Expressway 10 in Nassau County, it would be a problem but not 11 on the roads and the highways we're talking 12 about. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 14 other question, again through you, Mr. 15 President. In the work - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 17 Senator Levy, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In the work 20 that CTC did on the speed limit issue, was there 21 any investigation of the possibility of limiting 22 the time in which the speed limit was increased 23 to non-winter months to avoid the complications 1223 1 of winter driving at the higher speed? 2 SENATOR LEVY: Well, my 3 understanding of the federal law is that we - 4 we are -- we are precluded -- we are precluded 5 from doing that. Now, it is - 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Precluded 7 from having a differential for different times 8 of the year. 9 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. Now, under 10 the '73 law, and what is interesting is the 11 legislative intent, the legislative intent, when 12 -- when the federal people did 55, was to keep 13 legislatures like ours and others in the country 14 when we went to 55 from giving trucks a higher 15 differential above 55. So the intent of the law 16 is exactly -- the intent of the federal law, 17 when it was passed in '73, is exactly contrary 18 to what the law is doing to permit -- to 19 prohibit us other than as I've outlined dealing 20 with trucks over 18,000 pounds and school 21 buses. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 23 you, Mr. President, to Senator Levy. 1224 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 2 Senator Levy, you continue to yield. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is it your 4 intention in the Transportation Committee, if 5 this bill becomes law, if the conference 6 committee produces a bill that has the 7 comprehensive approach that you -- you've talked 8 about, to continue to monitor the implementation 9 of this -- I know it sunsets, I believe in '98 10 -- in that three-year period to both do the 11 issues about fatalities, do the issues about 12 differential speed, examine the school bus issue 13 -- I know we've come a ways in school bus 14 safety through your efforts and CTC's efforts - 15 can we anticipate that, if we do this sort of, I 16 would say experiment, but we're going back, 17 we're not going forward, we're doing something 18 we did before. Would it be your intention to 19 monitor that carefully and determine - 20 SENATOR LEVY: Well, number one, 21 I'm not the sponsor of the bill. The Assembly 22 does have a sunset; this bill does not have a 23 sunset and through the conference committee 1225 1 procedure, I definitely think (a) we ought to - 2 ought to have an oversight and that oversight 3 ought to repeat -- report annually to the 4 Governor and the Legislature on the impact of 5 the increase in the speed limit if, in fact, New 6 York does go that route, and one of the issues 7 that we were talking about had to do with the 8 sunset and again, it -- it is not Senator 9 Johnson, and it's not Senator Farley and it's 10 not Senator Bruno that said, We don't want to 11 talk and come to the Leg... come to the Senate 12 and you folks who are in the Assembly go to the 13 Assembly with a -- an agreed upon piece of 14 legislation. 15 We were there. We were talking. 16 We wanted to continue to talk and then everybody 17 got up one morning and they were out there with 18 their bill, and that's why we are here today. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 22 Senator Johnson. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 1226 1 just a couple of things I'd like to mention. 2 There are fears, of course, that, 3 if we raise the limit to 65, people taking a 10 4 mile-per-hour differential will go 75. I 5 suppose if we made it 70 they'd go 80. People 6 say that, but they say it not knowing that 7 they're misspeaking for the most part, and I'll 8 tell you why. 9 The states that have -- have gone 10 to 65 found out that their compliance has gone 11 up from five or ten percent to 80 to 85 percent 12 with the law, so when you set the limit at a 13 reasonable level of speed, there will be much, 14 much more compliance. In fact, it's almost 15 identical with the so-called 85th percentile 16 that highway engineers have traditionally set 17 the speed limits, so you will not have people 18 going faster. 19 In fact, there is very little 20 difference right now in studies of speeds on New 21 York State highways and the speeds on the 22 highways where 65 is the legal limit. They're 23 traveling almost identical speeds in both states 1227 1 so it's not going to really change the speed at 2 which most people travel. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Johnson 4 yield to a question? 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7 Senator Johnson, do you yield for a question? 8 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, if that's 9 -- if that's your conclusion, I know it's your 10 belief, then would you be supportive of - 11 because if people are not going to violate the 12 law, would you be supportive of dealing with 13 school buses, trucks over 18,000 pounds, 14 increasing points and increasing fines because 15 if people are not going to do it, then those 16 rare four-leaf clovers that do it, we ought to 17 smack them with a four by eight? 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, the 19 penalty for speeding in this state is lower than 20 many other states. They found that enforcement 21 -- consistent, realistic enforcement has much 22 greater impact on accidents and fatalities than 23 the absolute speed limit at which the maximum is 1228 1 set. So I'd say, yes, enforcement makes a lot 2 of sense. 3 There is a problem, and Senator 4 Dollinger shared that with you, as well of the 5 variation in speeds of vehicles and that could 6 cause accidents, so I think you'd have to have 7 some particular regulations about school buses. 8 Maybe they should always have to have their 9 flashers on or something else that you know 10 they're traveling slower than the normal speed. 11 As you know, on the Thruway right now if you go 12 below 45, the trucks have to have their flashers 13 on. 14 There should be some way to 15 distinguish between slower traveling traffic so 16 we don't all pile up behind those people and 17 cause accidents. But yes, there's no doubt 18 about it, Senator, that that's a very precious 19 cargo. I think most probably don't travel on 20 throughways or interstates, but those that do 21 can certainly - 22 SENATOR LEVY: How about trucks 23 over 18,000 pounds and particularly trucks that 1229 1 have cargos like explosives, gasoline, propane, 2 radioactive material, those types of cargos 3 where the substantial portion of the cargo that 4 the truck is carrying are those hazardous and 5 volatile materials? 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, I 7 think you made a point and so did others here 8 that we -- we may need some further study in 9 this case. Now, I don't know what other states 10 have done with those types of vehicles, whether 11 that's a problem or not. Statistically, how 12 many trucks carrying uranium have gone off the 13 road and exploded and decimated a city, Senator? 14 I don't know, Senator. I haven't heard of any 15 of those. 16 SENATOR LEVY: But, Senator 17 Johnson - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 19 Senator Levy, Senator Johnson has the floor. Do 20 you wish to have him yield further? 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Senator, I 22 think we can explore all those things. 23 SENATOR LEVY: Senator - 1230 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senator 2 Levy. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 5 Senator Johnson has the floor. 6 SENATOR LEVY: Will Senator 7 Johnson yield to a further question? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 9 Senator Levy, Senator Johnson has the floor. 10 Senator Johnson, do you wish to yield further? 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Johnson, 14 you may have overlooked or not have been aware 15 of it, but approximately six weeks ago, an 16 operator of a gasoline truck fell asleep in 17 Senator Holland's district so I-287 and hit a 18 bridge stanchion and not only killed himself and 19 blew everything, caused a significant amount of 20 damage to -- to homes in the vicinity of I-287, 21 so it does happen. 22 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Levy, 23 we have had a truck go on fire on Long Island. 1231 1 Was he going over the speed limit, Senator, or 2 was speed a factor in that accident? I don't 3 think it was. I haven't heard that, Senator. 4 So it may or may not be related to speed what 5 you're talking about, but certainly we should 6 pay attention to these things in any event. 7 You know, it's kind of 8 interesting that none of your statistics in some 9 cases showing increased accidents, we're talking 10 about a statewide accident fatality rate, 11 including all highways, in most cases and in 12 some states going at 65 they had increased 13 fatalities on the country roads posted at 55, so 14 how do you relate those to the speed limit, I 15 don't know. There is no direct relationship, no 16 other states that I know of that have gone to 40 17 -- to 65 have reverted to 55 because of safety 18 reasons. 19 So they've all gone to that; 20 they've stayed at that level. There are no 21 studies showing that insurance rates have gone 22 up in those states where the speed limit has 23 gone up ten miles per hour, and the simple 1232 1 reason is because people are traveling at those 2 speeds now in the states where it's 55. In the 3 states where it's 65, where the roads permit, 4 they're traveling at a comfortable speed in the 5 neighborhood of 65, 68 miles an hour, something 6 like that. 7 So yes, we're going to have a 8 conference committee. We're going to discuss 9 these things, but the fact is there's no reason 10 for this state to be so particular or unique 11 because we're not unique among other states. 12 Similar highways, similar populations, similar 13 mix of vehicles and similar results will be 14 effected, and all we're saying is let's not make 15 our people violators. 16 Let the police concentrate on 17 people going, say, over 70 miles an hour and 18 really crack down on those people and not divert 19 attention to people going 60 on a slow day or 20 whatever, they'll pull somebody over for 21 violating the speed limit where there's no 22 danger to themselves or anyone else or to 23 society in general. 1233 1 So, Senator, all I can say is 2 that this governor wants to get our state in 3 tune with the other states, simplify, eliminate 4 regulation. Let us not have the highest 5 regulations and the highest taxes where we drive 6 business, drive jobs out of the state. Let us 7 not have the most -- lowest speed limit in the 8 region, the most capriciously enforced speed 9 limit in the region where people have to look in 10 their rear view mirror instead of looking where 11 they're going. 12 I think for many good reasons, it 13 makes sense to legitimatize the proper speed at 14 which people are driving. I'd say let us 15 concern ourselves with their consent. Let us 16 not go ahead, and I'm sure that in the future as 17 in the past, the fatality rate will continue 18 going down as highways improve, as cars improve 19 and as education, alcohol enforcement and speed 20 limit enforcement continues. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 23 Senator Farley. 1234 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 I just want to compliment Senator 4 Levy for his cooperation in this. This has been 5 around for a long time. I think some of your 6 points that you make are very well taken. Of 7 course, I think that governors on -- on school 8 buses might be a good idea too. Most of the 9 school buses that I rode on as a child had a 10 governor on it any way. But certainly that's 11 something, all of those things that we can look 12 at. 13 Let me just conclude by saying, 14 who supports this bill, which might be of 15 interest to some of you: The Daily Gazette of 16 Schenectady; the National Motorists Association, 17 the American Automobile Association, Governor 18 Pataki, the Nassau-Suffolk Contractors 19 Association, ABATE of New York, the Yonkers 20 Herald Statesman, Newsday, Poughkeepsie Journal, 21 Ralph Martin for the Albany Times-Union, the 22 Saratogian, the Buffalo News, the Empire Star 23 Gazette -- Elmira Star Gazette, the Syracuse 1235 1 Herald American, the Utica Observer Dispatch, 2 the Norwich Evening Sun, the Rochester 3 Times-Union and the great bulk of the people in 4 this state. 5 I urge its passage. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President, I apologize if I'm following what 10 would have been the closing comments from the 11 sponsors. Frankly, I guess I'll use a little - 12 a little parody of all those signs you see on 13 the road. 14 It seems to me the group that's 15 exceeding the speed limit in this issue is the 16 state Legislature. The Assembly may have been 17 zipping along about 75, we're now going about 72 18 in what should be a 55-mile-an-hour zone because 19 we ought to be listening to the advice of 20 Senator Levy and doing a complete package which 21 will get us to the point we need to get to. 22 I think we ought to look at the 23 yield sign, come to a stop sign and do what you 1236 1 do at the railroad crossing, look and listen to 2 what he's got to say before we put the 3 accelerator back to the floor on this bill and 4 drive along. 5 The point he makes, I think, is 6 very well taken, the point about school buses, 7 the point about trucks, the issues involving 8 insurance, I think the study, frankly, I think 9 is critical. If it's a 28 percent increase in 10 fatalities, if that's the fact, at least in my 11 opinion, this bill becomes a far more -- far 12 greater prospect of costing people lives in the 13 state of New York and, frankly, the benefits 14 suddenly become outweighed by larger numbers of 15 fatalities. 16 I like his approach. Frankly, I 17 came in to vote against this bill. I'm now 18 going to vote in favor of it with the message 19 that what we're doing is we're simply driving 20 our little car that has now these two bills into 21 the conference committee for servicing, that 22 we're going to take this car apart, we're going 23 to figure out where the nuts and bolts are, 1237 1 we're going to try to figure out how to put it 2 back in a comprehensive way to make it work and 3 then we can get behind the wheel, put the car in 4 drive and figure out whether we're going to go 5 65 or 55 when we've got the full picture. 6 I think Senator Levy's points are 7 very well taken. I'll vote for the bill under 8 those circumstances. If it doesn't come back 9 without the changes that Senator Levy needs, 10 that is increasing the penalties over 65 so that 11 people like me who, back when the speed limit 12 was 65 and I drove on Route 81 north to 13 Watertown, everybody went 78 or 79 miles an 14 hour, the same way they now go 68 or 69 miles an 15 hour. Everybody drove over 75 miles an hour 16 back in 1971 and '72 in the North Country up in 17 Senator Wright's district. They all kept flying 18 by nearly at 80 miles an hour. 19 If we can solve that problem, we 20 can solve the problem of school buses and the 21 large trucks, then we've got a bill that we can 22 be proud of. We can put the car in gear and do 23 the job. 1238 1 Thank you. I'll be voting in 2 favor, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 4 Senator Abate. 5 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Mr. 6 President. Would Senator Levy yield to a 7 question? Before that - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 9 Senator Levy, will you yield to a question? 10 SENATOR ABATE: I did not know my 11 colleague, Senator Dollinger, was such an expert 12 on cars, almost like a mechanic. But I don't 13 have the same operational knowledge, but I'd 14 like to also compliment you on your cogent and 15 compelling arguments and the concerns you 16 raised, the concerns about buses and trucks and 17 the need for real and meaningful enforcement. 18 But because of that, is it 19 advisable today to pass this legislation, 20 because we don't have any assurance that the 21 conference committee will give real weight to 22 the arguments and concerns you've raised and 23 wouldn't it be better practice to put this bill 1239 1 in a -- back into committee? 2 Let's address these concerns, 3 bring it back to the conference, and I must say 4 I'm really proud of what we've done today. We 5 had some real debate and some reasonable issues 6 were raised and discussed. Let's not lose sight 7 of what you have done today. Let's bring it 8 back to committee and let's produce another 9 bill. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Well, the 11 conference -- the way the conference committee 12 is going to work is, the final product is coming 13 back to the Assembly and coming bank to the 14 Senate, and you and I are going to have an 15 opportunity to debate -- to debate the work 16 product of the conference committee and either 17 pass it or defeat it. 18 So what -- what Senator Johnson 19 and Senator Farley and Senator Bruno and the 20 other sponsors of this bill are saying is that 21 there's been a de facto repeal of 55. People 22 don't have respect for the law. The Assembly 23 had -- has unilaterally -- unilaterally decided 1240 1 to move forward with their own piece of 2 legislation. Therefore, the sponsors of the 3 bill want to make a statement to the people of 4 the state that we recognize the problem, we 5 recognize the need to move forward to 65 and we 6 want to make a statement to that effect and 7 that's really all that this bill is doing is 8 making a statement. 9 SENATOR ABATE: But I'm 10 suggesting that a week from now, we could make 11 the same statement but in a stronger way, in a 12 comprehensive way. If we leave out the issues 13 you've raised, we send a message that these 14 issues are not important and I can not support 15 this legislation without the addressing of the 16 enforcement issue which is so critical to the 17 overall safety of the people that utilize our 18 roads and highways. 19 SENATOR LEVY: I think, Senator 20 Abate, that -- that what happens in legislat 21 ures, including ours, when you have to negotiate 22 a bill like this, such a vitally important 23 highway safety bill or some of the other very, 1241 1 very -- other very, very important bills that we 2 have before us, unless you are able to show to 3 the Assembly that you are able to pass a bill 4 that makes a statement on where you are in a 5 concept with -- with the concept underlying the 6 bill, so what you really do is you undercut your 7 ability to negotiate if you can't get a bill 8 through your house, and that's really what we're 9 doing here. 10 SENATOR ABATE: I just -- I share 11 the concerns you've raised. I don't think this 12 covers it. We go into uncharted territory. We 13 have -- we may have an eventual bill that's 14 agreed upon by both houses that will not address 15 your concerns. I hope it happens, but I don't 16 have full confidence in that process. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 19 Senator Solomon. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 Couple of points because I 23 started raising questions, and I'm going to try 1242 1 to be as brief as possible. Again, I will make 2 this available. It's basically something I got 3 from the Alliance of American Insurers. 4 Regarding speed/travel, and speed 5 does include scratches in four basic ways before 6 we even get down to some of the specifics that 7 were raised by Senator Levy: Increases the 8 distance a vehicle travels when a driver detects 9 an emergency until that driver reacts; increases 10 the distance needed to stop a vehicle once the 11 emergency is perceived; crash severity increases 12 by the square amounts of speed, so when a crash 13 -- when speed increases from 40 to 60 miles per 14 hour, the speed goes up 50 percent while the 15 energy related to that crash which is done in a 16 lot of the studies which we've all seen over the 17 years, whether it be with air bags or dummies, 18 et cetera, more than doubles which is 19 significant in terms of what happens to the 20 person in that automobile. 21 Some of the other things that we 22 should be aware of is that the higher the speed, 23 the less that air bag or those bars put in the 1243 1 doors for side impact crashes today can -- the 2 less of an impact that can actually have on 3 protecting the occupants because those safety 4 devices become less effective. 5 In addition, I think we have to 6 really look at trucks and we have to consider we 7 have the double trucks, in fact we've even had 8 proposals to allow the triple trucks to travel 9 on our Thruway. We have to remember that 98 10 percent of the people killed in two-vehicle 11 crashes deal with large trucks and passenger 12 vehicles. 13 In addition, some -- one other 14 statistic is telling from the National Highway 15 Safety Institute, deals with urban and rural 16 roads. Rural roads account for 40 percent of 17 all vehicle miles traveled, but they account for 18 61 percent of all speed-related fatalities which 19 is very significant if you're saying your 20 constituents want these higher speeds because 21 it's your constituents are the ones that 22 eventually pay, some with their lives, and I 23 think that's the reason that we all have to take 1244 1 a second look at this stuff. 2 This -- excuse me. This bill, 3 and it's not so simple to say, Well, let's leave 4 the speed limit and there's no cost on society 5 and there's no cost on anyone else, and I don't 6 want it on my conscience when we have a horrible 7 accident with one of these double trailer trucks 8 because they're traveling at 80 miles an hour, 9 it's only 10 miles or 15 miles above the speed 10 limit. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 12 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 would you recognize Senator LaValle, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 16 Senator LaValle. 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 18 there will be an immediate meeting of the Higher 19 Education Committee in Room 124 of the Capitol. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Continue now 21 with the debate. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senator 23 Tully. 1245 1 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I had not intended to speak on 4 this bill this morning and, quite frankly, I 5 hadn't made my mind up on which way I was going 6 to do, but I do wish to complement the sponsors, 7 Senator Johnson and Senator Farley, and Senator 8 Levy and the others that have spoken, for the 9 stimulating dialogue, because it has given me an 10 opportunity to rethink my feeling about the 11 bill. 12 I think the concerns addressed by 13 Senator Levy are very much in tune with my own 14 concerns, and I am prepared now to vote for this 15 bill on the basis of the conference committee 16 seriously considering the issues which have been 17 raised by Senator Levy in a very cogent manner. 18 He reminded me that many years 19 ago, when I was in the military I had occasion 20 to drive a tank. The tank weighed 49-1/2 tons. 21 The tank had a maximum speed of 40 miles an hour 22 and occasionally, if you were young as I was, 23 you were inclined to let the tank move along and 1246 1 sometimes get in the dust trail of the tank in 2 front of you. When that happened, you 3 immediately attempt to brake the tank, and in 4 order to put that brake down, you had to lean 5 all the way back, almost stand up to get the 6 tank to come to a halt after many, many yards 7 had gone by. 8 The fact that Senator Levy tells 9 me there are tanks -- trucks, excuse me, in 10 excess of 18,000 pounds carrying loads that are 11 in excess of 75 tons or in the area of 75 tons, 12 indicates to me that there is something that 13 each and every one of us should be deeply con 14 cerned about when we talk about trucks going 55 15 miles an hour, never mind 65 or 70. 16 Certainly there must be some 17 enforcement. There must be something that 18 concerns those drivers that makes sure that they 19 don't exceed the speed limit, that makes sure 20 that they protect the other users of the road 21 and certainly we should be concerned about those 22 vehicles which carry volatile materials, 23 chemicals, explosives, and our children who are 1247 1 being driven to and from school. At least these 2 concerns are very, very serious ones. 3 However, on the sure basis that 4 they're going to be considered by the conference 5 committee, I am prepared at this point to vote 6 for the bill. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 9 Senator Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 11 there are a number of us who are co-sponsors. 12 It's very obvious that, by the excellent 13 presentations made by Senator Farley and Senator 14 Johnson and the observations of Senator Levy, 15 that we have the basis for moving forward but 16 much more of a positive nature, I think, is the 17 development of the conference committee. 18 Now, frequent reference was made 19 to the conference -- conference committee, the 20 conference process between the two houses. This 21 is a new development in our -- in our methods of 22 approaching legislation to bring the -- to the 23 conference responsible proponents of both houses 1248 1 interacting on an informed basis, and this is a 2 very, very positive -- I don't want to call it a 3 pilot project at this point, but as this process 4 goes forward, I think it's going to augur for 5 more mature and more responsive legislation, a 6 better quality of legislation as we approach 7 other problems of an urgent nature. 8 So let's keep in mind that we are 9 talking about a process, an ongoing process and 10 procedure which will certainly give us enhanced 11 opportunity to make balanced judgments and - 12 and have the vehicle by which credibility and a 13 consensus is built on a much wider basis than we 14 have had on other bills of a controversial 15 nature. 16 So this is an excellent 17 opportunity, and I certainly praise the lead 18 sponsors for assuming the responsibility of 19 doing this, and I think it -- it's a harbinger 20 of good things to come on -- on just the 21 processing of legislation generally. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 23 Senator Jones. 1249 1 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I, too, 2 didn't plan to speak today. I basically came 3 here to listen, as I did in transportation, but 4 I do want to thank Senator Levy. He also 5 presented the same concerns at the 6 Transportation Committee, and I want to assure 7 my colleague, Senator Abate, that I'm in year 8 three and I still haven't quite learned the 9 logic of continuing to pass bills that we know 10 won't become law, but I guess it is a good thing 11 as Senator Marchi said that this year we do have 12 the conference committee and the issues that 13 Senator Levy raised, that I totally agree with, 14 will be discussed and I think I agree with the 15 Senator, this is a good test case. 16 Let's see how it goes, but I can 17 assure you I will be joining Senator Levy in 18 opposing this bill if it comes back in the same 19 form, without the safeguards. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 21 Senator Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 23 think the things that I was going to say have 1250 1 just been said. I was going to mention the fact 2 that we really don't have a history with 3 conference committees, and the logic that 4 Senator Levy just put forth, I think, makes 5 sense that, if we go into the conference 6 committee with a bill that we've passed, I think 7 we're in a stronger, much stronger position than 8 if we go into the conference committee with 9 something that hasn't passed this house. 10 I'm the ranking Democrat on the 11 Transportation Committee, and I must say I 12 support all the concerns that Senator Levy has. 13 I think many of us on the committee did feel 14 that these were very valid concerns and at this 15 juncture, I think the best thing is to go 16 forward, pass the bill, see what comes out of 17 conference committee, and I agree if these 18 issues aren't addressed, and addressed, you 19 know, in a manner that many of us want it 20 addressed, we'll probably not support it next 21 time, but I think at this juncture it's wise for 22 us to support it in this house. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 1251 1 Senator Nanula. 2 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 I originally was very much in 5 support of this bill, and I went to committee 6 earlier in the week and Senator Levy had 7 presented some very salient points, and for that 8 reason I, too, support conditionally this bill. 9 I feel that it does require a 10 further investigation regarding the issues that 11 have been addressed here today and discussed, 12 and presuming those are addressed sufficiently 13 and adequately, I will be supporting the bill 14 when it comes before this chamber in the 15 future. 16 Thanks. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Does 18 any other Senator wish to be heard on this bill? 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 20 SENATOR LEVY: Explain my vote. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 22 Senator Levy to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR LEVY: Just the point - 1252 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Can we 2 get the last section read first, Senator? 3 The Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take place 90 days after it shall have 7 become a law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: I 12 recognize Senator Levy to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. There was 14 just one point that I neglected to make that I 15 did want to put out on the record, that there 16 are 11 states prior to '73 that created a lower 17 differential for trucks, and there were seven - 18 seven states with school buses, and none of 19 those states have repealed the differential to 20 permit trucks and school buses to go in excess 21 of 55 miles an hour, and I neglected to put that 22 on the record, and I think it ought to be part 23 of the record. 1253 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 2 Senator Cook. 3 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 4 there's no way to prove that people will drive 5 faster if we increase the speed limit to 65, but 6 I think that we all -- we all understand and 7 know that, in fact, people will drive faster and 8 that, when that happens, the danger on the 9 highways increases. 10 I don't know how to vote on bills 11 except to try to get information about what 12 would probably happen, so we contacted the 13 federal Department of Transportation and got the 14 actual statistics in the states that have 15 already changed the speed limit from 55 to 65. 16 These are the fatalities only on the rural 17 sections of the interstate highways, so they 18 don't relate to two-lane roads or dirt roads or 19 anything else. These are specifically related 20 to two-lane -- to the interstate highways and, 21 in fact, the increase in fatalities that was 22 reported by the federal DOT was 24 percent. 23 I'm not prepared to participate 1254 1 in something that I think will increase the 2 death rate on the interstate highways in New 3 York State by almost a quarter. For that 4 reason, I'm voting in the negative. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my 6 vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 8 Senator Dollinger to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 10 will vote in favor of this bill to send it to 11 conference committee. If it doesn't come back 12 with the protections that Senator Levy has 13 talked about and if it doesn't come back with an 14 explanation of the point that Senator Cook just 15 made, I think Senator Levy mentioned earlier 16 that we're going to resolve the issue and 17 somehow reconcile the various studies that have 18 analyzed the effect of the 65-mile-an-hour speed 19 limit, if we don't get a satisfactory answer 20 reconciling that study mentioned by Senator 21 Cook, the other studies that have been talked 22 about, and come up with a better defined number, 23 if it doesn't have the protections in, I will 1255 1 vote no next time. I'm voting yes, Mr. 2 President, this time, but I will vote no if we 3 don't get that reconciliation and the 4 protections that Senator Levy mentioned. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Get a 6 result of the roll call, please. 7 Senator Paterson to explain his 8 vote. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President. 11 I think if we could simplify 12 this, that if you raise the speed limit you're 13 going to to some degree raise the fatality 14 rate. Senator Levy corrected me, and I'm glad I 15 was corrected, that it wasn't 17 percent, it was 16 actually 28 percent. If we put the protections 17 that he is suggesting into this legislation, if 18 we listen to the Insurance Institute for Highway 19 Safety that tells us that in the states of 20 Maryland and Virginia, for instance, that had 21 the same speed limit, 55 in 1988, that when they 22 increased the speed limit in Virginia that the 23 -- those going over 70 miles an hour went up to 1256 1 29 percent where the number had been 8 percent, 2 and in Maryland where they kept the speed limit 3 the same it stayed at 7 percent, I think it 4 would be very instructive that we can raise the 5 speed limit, but we have to have those added 6 protections. 7 When a car is going 60 miles an 8 hour, it moves at 88 feet per second. At 88 9 feet per second, it takes 360 feet for the car 10 to come to a full stop. Now, the reason you 11 don't have to be 360 feet behind the car in 12 front of you is because that car also has to 13 come to a stop too, but there has to be a 14 greater distance between the cars. That's the 15 speed at which speed is measured as distance 16 over time. Velocity is speed over time, and 17 what Senator Solomon was admonishing us was that 18 the measure of momentum is mass times velocity 19 and the -- and that is increasing exponentially 20 as the speed increases. 21 So without telling you, Mr. 22 President, what my major was, I will vote for 23 the bill, but I think that we have to put the 1257 1 protections in eventually that Senator Levy is 2 asking for. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 4 Senator Waldon to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 I had the good fortune of 8 traveling to South Carolina recently. I'm going 9 to vote for the bill. And when I exited the 10 airport in my rental car, I noticed that cars 11 were going by me almost as if I was standing 12 still, and the part that amazed me most, Senator 13 Levy, was that many of these cars were being 14 driven by very silvery-haired people. In fact, 15 the last car I saw before the sign let me know 16 why I appeared to be standing still and they 17 were moving very quickly forward, was driven by 18 an elderly woman who barely could get her eyes 19 over the steering wheel, and she was moving in 20 South Carolina. I was driving 55, 56, in that 21 range, miles per hour, being in a foreign state 22 and knowing that I had no juice in terms of my 23 law enforcement experience, I needed to 1258 1 acclimate myself. 2 The point I'm trying to make is 3 that, if silvery-haired people in South Carolina 4 can drive at 65 miles an hour and do it well, 5 I'm sure that those similar in our state can and 6 I believe that our younger people will also ad 7 here to the rules. 8 I vote in support of this 9 legislation. I hope it does well and bodes well 10 for the state of New York. 11 Thank you very much, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 14 Secretary will announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 70 are Senators 17 Abate, Cook, Holland, LaValle, Leichter, Mendez, 18 Solomon and Volker. Ayes 42, nays 8. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 23 President. If you could return to motions and 1259 1 resolutions, and I believe there's a resolution 2 at the desk by Senator Marchi. If you would 3 have it read in its entirety and then recognize 4 Senator Marchi, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 6 Secretary will read the entire resolution. 7 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 8 Resolution, by Senator Marchi, mourning the 9 death of George Felton of Staten Island. 10 WHEREAS this legislative body has 11 learned with regret of the death on January 9, 12 1995 of George Felton of Port Richmond, Staten 13 Island, a retired New York City fire marshal, 14 African-American leader and acclaimed community 15 and political activist, at the age of 67; 16 George Felton, a native of Ports 17 mouth, Virginia, began his exemplary life in New 18 York State in 1932 after being brought here as a 19 child; 20 After graduating from McKee High 21 School, George Felton became a police officer 22 and underwent training in criminal investiga 23 tion, firearms instruction and studied in the 1260 1 department's bomb squad school; 2 He switched over to the New York 3 City Fire Department in 1955 and served tours of 4 duty in Manhattan and Mariners Harbor, Staten 5 Island, before transferring to the department's 6 Bureau of Fire Investigation, where he served 7 with distinction until his retirement in 1974; 8 George Felton came to wide public 9 attention in the early 1970s when, as a fire 10 marshal, he and his colleagues investigated the 11 fire bombing of a New Dorp residence; their 12 efforts were instrumental in bringing four men 13 to justice in federal court in 1973; 14 In 1988, George Felton was 15 honored by the National Association for the 16 Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) with the 17 William Morris Award for his work in the case; 18 His enviable record of public 19 service involved active leadership in the Staten 20 Island branch of the NAACP where he served two 21 terms as president. He earned that unit's 22 gratitude and special honors for his untiring 23 efforts in behalf of the community; 1261 1 George Felton's effective range 2 of public service activities led him to service 3 with the Urban League, the Staten Island YMCA, 4 the Staten Island Lions Club, the Staten Island 5 Boy Scouts, Heritage House and the Goodhue 6 Children's Center, those involvements prompted 7 many of those organizations to honor him with 8 special awards and citations; 9 This energetic Staten Islander 10 managed, despite many demands made on his time 11 for civic, charitable and community 12 undertakings, to take on and fulfill leader 13 ship roles in the local Democratic Party for 14 more than 20 years, and assisted in several 15 major campaigns; 16 George Felton was a devoted 17 member of several churches including the Shiloh 18 A.M.E. Zion Church, West Brighton, where he 19 served on the board of trustees, the Fellowship 20 Baptist Church in Mariners Harbor, and the 21 International Christian Center in Granite 22 ville; 23 A true family man, George Felton 1262 1 and his wife, the late Susie Porter Felton, had 2 a son, Duane, and three daughters, Diane and 3 Linda Felton, and Karen Handley, as well as nine 4 grandchildren; 5 This legislative body wishes to 6 give official recognition and approbation to an 7 individual who served his community and state so 8 admirably; 9 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 10 that this legislative body pause in its 11 deliberations to honor the memory of George 12 Felton, salute his accomplishments in bettering 13 his community, state and nation, and convey to 14 his family the deep appreciation felt for the 15 service rendered by Mr. Felton; and 16 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 17 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 18 transmitted to the members of the Felton 19 family. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 21 Senator Marchi. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 23 George Felton was a good friend, a close 1263 1 collaborator on many worthwhile initiatives in 2 the Staten Island community. You have heard the 3 recitation of the various services that he 4 performed, but we should reflect also on the 5 fact that, when he entered into the police 6 department, it was a year in which there were 7 numerous, numerous, many, many competitors and 8 it was a -- the result of a winnowing out 9 process - 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Could 11 we please have some order in the chamber; please 12 hold conversations to a minimum. 13 Senator Marchi. 14 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 -- a winnowing out process, Mr. 17 President that marked him as a special 18 individual. He performed so credibly, and in 19 the community he -- his leadership was 20 exemplary. He had an uncanny gift for building 21 a consensus, for getting -- moving people 22 towards worthy goals in a way that the consensus 23 reflected the feelings that he was trying to 1264 1 convey. 2 I might add, Mr. President, after 3 we take the roll call, which I know will be 4 favorable that present with us to your right in 5 the balcony, his son Duane, a leading barister, 6 attorney-at-law in Staten Island, and his wife 7 Dorothy, his daughter -- their daughter, Karen 8 Felton Handley, her husband Mason Handley, and 9 grandchildren Jachine Chandler and Diane Felton 10 and Jeanine Atherton and Michael Atherton, 11 members of this family. They are very close to 12 so many of us in the borough of Richmond which 13 is soon to become the city of Staten Island, 14 that after the roll call, I trust, Mr. 15 President, since you also represent part of that 16 wonderful community, that you will recognize 17 them. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Thank 19 you, Senator Marchi. 20 The question is on the 21 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 22 aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 1265 1 Opposed? 2 (There was no response. ) 3 The resolution is adopted. 4 It is with pleasure that I also 5 welcome the family of George Felton as I also 6 represent Staten Island. It is a pleasure to 7 have you with us here today. Thank you. 8 (Applause) 9 Senator Skelos, we have a report 10 of standing committees. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please 12 read the report from standing committees? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin, 16 from the Committee on Local Government, reports 17 the following bill directly for third reading: 18 Senate Bill Number 459-A, by 19 Senator Present, an act to amend the General 20 Municipal Law, in relation to the powers of the 21 county of Chautauqua Industrial Development 22 Agency. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: With 1266 1 the permission of the Majority Leader, would you 2 suffer an interruption? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator Galiber 4 very wisely pointed out that there may be others 5 who would like to join and have their names on 6 this resolution, so there are others and we 7 might assume that -- we might assume that 8 everybody wants to be on the resolution. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Any 10 member wishing to be on the resolution can be 11 put on. Senator Skelos, do you wish to open it 12 up to all members except those that decline? 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, no 14 objection. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Every 16 one will be put on the resolution. If you do 17 not wish to be put on the resolution, please let 18 us know. 19 Continue the reading. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle, 21 from the Committee on Higher Education, reports 22 the following bills directly for third reading: 23 Senate Bill Number 35, by Senator 1267 1 Holland, authorize the Salvation Army Eastern 2 Territory School for Officers; 3 1186, by Senators Volker and 4 LaValle, Education Law, in relation to the 5 practice of optometry; 6 1918, by Senator LaValle, and 7 others, Education Law, and the Public Officers 8 Law, in relation to the Board of Regents of the 9 University of the State of New York; 10 2178, by Senator LaValle, 11 Education Law, in relation to the Board of 12 Regents of the University of the State of New 13 York. 14 All bills reported directly for 15 third reading. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 17 Without objection all bills to third reading. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 20 with the consent of the Majority, would you 21 please call up Senator Present's bill, Senate 22 Bill 459-A. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 1268 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 101, by Senator Present, Senate Bill Number 4 459-A, an act to amend the General Municipal 5 Law, in relation to the powers of the county of 6 Chautauqua Industrial Development Agency. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There 8 is a home rule message at the desk. Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 17 bill is passed. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 20 President. At this time would the Senate please 21 stand at ease. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senate 23 stands at ease. 1269 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, I just didn't quite catch what we 4 just did. Could you just tell me what bill we 5 just approved? I know it's on my desk. Is it 6 this one; is this the Cattaraugus County bill? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Senate 8 Bill Number 459. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: A. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Got it, thank 12 you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 14 Senate will stand at ease. 15 (Whereupon at 11:40 a.m., the 16 Senate stood at ease until 11:56 a.m.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 18 will come to order. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 21 recognizes Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will 23 stand in recess until 2:00 p.m. sharp. 1270 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 2 will stand in recess until 2:00 p.m. sharp. 3 (Whereupon at 11:57 a.m., the 4 Senate stood in recess, reconvening at 2:02 5 p.m.. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Senate will come to order. Members please take 8 their chairs momentarily. 9 Senator DeFrancisco. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There 11 appears to be no further business, and that 12 being the case, the Senate is adjourned to 13 February 27th at 3:00 p.m., intervening days are 14 legislative days. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until 17 February 27th, the regular time, 3:00 p.m., all 18 intervening days to be legislative days. 19 (Whereupon at 2:03 p.m., the 20 Senate adjourned.) 21 22 23