Wednesday, March 15, 1995

2321 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 March 15, 1995 10 11:02 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 2322 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come to order. Members please find their 4 chairs; the staff their seats. Ask all the 5 members in the gallery to rise and join us in 6 the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate and those 8 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to 9 the Flag.) 10 In the absence of clergy, may we 11 all bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 13 silence.) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Tuesday, March 14. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. Senator Kuhl in the chair. Prayer 18 by Father Peter Young. The Journal of Monday, 19 March 13, was read and approved. On motion, 20 Senate adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 22 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 23 read. 2323 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Rath. 10 SENATOR RATH: I have a motion. 11 On page 12, I offer the following amendments to 12 Calendar Number 10, Senate Print number 185, and 13 ask that said bill retain its place on Third 14 Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 16 Amendments are received and adopted. The bill 17 will retain its place on the Third Reading 18 Calendar. 19 Senator Cook. 20 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 21 Resolution Number 526 has already been passed by 22 the Senate; but, with unanimous consent, I would 23 like to request that that resolution be read at 2324 1 this time, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the resolution in its entirety. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution 5 Number 526, by Senator Cook and others, 6 commending the New York State Association for 7 Continuing Community Education and the 1995 8 Students of the Year. 9 Whereas, the Legislature of the 10 State of New York is pleased to welcome the New 11 York Association for Continuing Community 12 Education and proud to commend the 1959 Students 13 of the Year for their outstanding work as adult 14 learners. 15 These students are honored 16 recipients of the Student of the Year Award who 17 have been selected to receive this esteemed 18 distinction because of their demonstrated 19 outstanding perseverance and dedication. 20 The 1995 Students of the Year 21 worked hard and overcame many challenges; and in 22 doing so, developed within themselves a strong 23 sense of independence, self-esteem and 2325 1 self-sufficiency which can never be taken away. 2 The 1995 Students of the Year 3 have confirmed through their earnest commitment 4 and will to succeed that they will be looked 5 upon as positive role models not only to adult 6 learners but to their community. 7 The Legislature of the State of 8 New York also pays tribute to the teachers, 9 coordinators, administrators, and trainers of 10 these students for their selfless dedication to 11 the students who worked so hard, brought hope 12 into lives of many accomplishments. 13 The Legislature of the State of 14 New York also honors the board members for their 15 guidance of the New York Association for 16 Continuing Community Education, for their 17 continuing dedication to education in New York, 18 and to all the individuals on the Award State 19 Committee who worked diligently in order to 20 insure these students receive the recognition 21 they deserve. 22 Resolved, that this Legislative 23 Body pause in its deliberations to commend the 2326 1 New York Association for Continuing Community 2 Education and the 1995 Students of the Year for 3 their remarkable accomplishments; and 4 Resolved, that copies of this 5 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 6 to each of the Students of Year and Board 7 President Gary Brady and Awards Day Chairman Lin 8 Wischhusen. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 10 recognizes Senator Cook. 11 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 12 There is not a great deal that I can add to what 13 the resolution has said. 14 We are honored today to have with 15 us the Students of the Year, who are seated in 16 the gallery, and I would simply ask that you 17 would recognize them and welcome them to this 18 Senate chamber and join personally in 19 congratulating them for the fine accomplishments 20 that they have made. It has indeed been a great 21 personal effort and a great personal dedication 22 on their part that brings them to this point, 23 and we join in celebrating this occasion with 2327 1 them. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On behalf 3 of Senator Bruno and Senator Cook and all of the 4 members of the chamber, we welcome these 5 outstanding students to the chamber, 6 congratulate you on your achievements, and thank 7 you for sharing just a small part of your life 8 with us. 9 Thank you and welcome to the 10 chamber. 11 (Applause.) 12 Senator Bruno, we have some 13 substitutions at the desk if you would like to 14 take care of those now. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Without 16 objection. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 DeFrancisco moves to discharge from the 21 Committee on Tourism Recreation and Sports 22 Development Assembly Bill Number 917, identical 23 with Calendar Number 206. 2328 1 Also, Senator DeFrancisco from 2 the Committee on Local Government moves to 3 discharge Assembly Bill 1983A and substitute it 4 for identical Calendar Bill Number 213. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Substitutions are ordered. 7 Senator Bruno, are we ready for 8 the calendar? 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 10 Can we now take up the noncontroversial 11 calendar? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the noncontroversial calendar. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 16, 15 Calendar Number 143, by Senator Saland, Senate 16 Bill Number 2119, an act to amend the Social 17 Services Law, in relation to bona fide research 18 projects. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 145, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 927, 2329 1 an act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs 2 Law. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 148, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill 1921, an 8 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 153, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1861, 14 an act to amend the Election Law and the State 15 Finance Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 2330 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 159, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 900, an 5 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 6 Act. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 8 last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the first day of 11 October. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 160, by Senator Rath, Senate Bill Number 901, an 20 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 21 Act. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 23 last section. 2331 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first day of 3 October. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Bruno, that completes the 11 noncontroversial calendar. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 13 Can we now take up the controversial calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page number 17 16, Calendar Number 143, by Senator Saland, 18 Senate Print 2119, an act to amend the Social 19 Services Law, in relation to bona fide research 20 projects. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 2332 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 145, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 927, an 3 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, 4 in relation to the sale of consigned works. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Goodman, an explanation has been asked for by 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 9 This is a classic case of a tax being imposed 10 administratively by virtue of a new 11 interpretation of the Tax Law being imposed by 12 an administrative agency, in this case Taxation 13 and Finance. This bill seeks to eliminate an 14 administratively imposed tax on art galleries in 15 New York, most of them situated in New York 16 City. 17 The taxes on the sale of art 18 works to out-of-state buyers, the Department 19 made the tax liability for such sales greater 20 than that for other consignment sales such as 21 that for books, newspapers, and dealers and 22 recordings. 23 To remedy this, the bill amends 2333 1 the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law and to assure 2 that the sale of consigned work is deemed 3 revenue from the sale of tangible goods and not 4 from the provision. Should this bill not pass, 5 it would impose an enormous tax burden upon art 6 dealers in the City of New York; and there's a 7 view that in a number of crucial instances, they 8 would actually leave New York State and New York 9 City in order to avoid this punitive tax. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 11 recognizes Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 13 President. Would Senator Goodman yield for a 14 question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Goodman, would you yield to a question from 17 Senator Paterson? 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Just one 19 moment, Senator. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, I 21 think this is a bill that demonstrates the 22 perspicacious nature of Senator Goodman's 23 thinking, and I agree with it completely. I 2334 1 just have this one question, Senator Goodman. 2 The revenues that are derived 3 from the sale of consigned artwork, obviously 4 this has negatively impacted on the art dealer; 5 and what this legislation seeks to do is to 6 alleviate that, and we appreciate it. 7 The question is, is there any 8 fiscal impact that you know of as a result of 9 this legislation? 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: We believe that 11 the fiscal impact will be minimal and that, if 12 it occurs at all, it will not occur for some 13 period of time into the future. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 15 President. Thank Senator Goodman, and that ends 16 my questioning, and we may read the last 17 section. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the 21 sponsor yield to one other question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Goodman, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 2335 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you 5 Senator, through you, Mr. President. Is the 6 impact of this proposed change any broader than 7 simply to restore the pre-matter of Andre Emick 8 Gallery interpretation of this section of the 9 Arts and Cultural Affairs Law? 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: To restore the 11 status quo ante. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. There 13 is no broadening of the Tax Law treatment of 14 these sales - 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: That is 16 correct. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- prior to 18 this interpretation? 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: That is 20 correct. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 2336 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 148, by Senator Goodman, an act to amend the 11 Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in relation to 12 the information required in license or permit 13 applications. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Goodman, an explanation has been asked for by 17 Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 19 This bill eventuated from a series of 20 investigations held by the Senate Investigations 21 Committee several years ago which indicated that 22 one of the very serious areas for potential 23 corruption in the State Liquor Authority rested 2337 1 in the fact that there were inordinate delays in 2 the granting of liquor licenses to applicants. 3 By virtue of these delays in certain instances 4 that we exposed in some investigative hearings, 5 there was undue influence exercised in trying to 6 expedite applications, and this became a very 7 serious economic problem for the applicant who 8 would be investing in a substantial restaurant 9 with a liquor-related bar, a liquor-serving bar, 10 and the entire restaurant operation could not 11 properly open unless and until a license were 12 granted. As a result, severe economic hardship 13 was imposed upon the applicants and they, in 14 turn, were frequently -- or were from time to 15 time finding it necessary to resort to the 16 retention of attorneys, especially to expedite 17 their applications and, indeed, something much 18 more serious, which appeared to be undo 19 influence upon the State Liquor Authority 20 itself. 21 So these delays struck us as 22 being something that should be changed and 23 reformed, and the result was that we came up 2338 1 with this bill, which would, first, impose 2 strict limits on the amount of time that the SLA 3 may take to act upon an application and, second, 4 by standardizing the information on applications 5 that applicants are required to submit, it would 6 expedite the process. 7 With respect to time limits, the 8 bill provides that, in general, the SLA must act 9 upon a completed application within 60 days. If 10 it fails to do this, the applicant may send a 11 notice to the State Liquor Authority; and if the 12 Authority does not respond within five days 13 after receiving the notice, the application will 14 be deemed approved. In other words, it is 15 requiring the State Liquor Authority to act 16 within a reasonably prompt time frame so that we 17 put an end to the difficulties we experienced, 18 as I have described them. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 recognizes Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 22 President. Would Senator Goodman yield for a 23 question? 2339 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Goodman, do you yield? 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: First of all, 7 Senator Goodman, is it 60 days or 45 days? 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: I am informed, 9 at least the material that I have before me - 10 well, let's see. That's very interesting that 11 you raise that, Senator. I see that I have a 12 contradiction in my memos. Let me try to 13 clarify that for you forthwith. 14 I'm advised that through an 15 inadvertence this memo that I have before me is 16 in error, it related to a prior bill, and that 17 it is in fact 45 days. You are correct, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 20 Senator Goodman. I think you are certainly 21 alleviating a problem that exists in terms of 22 those establishments that are seeking a 23 license. What I am afraid is that we may be 2340 1 creating another problem which are 2 establishments that are operating with licenses 3 that have actually not met the threshold test 4 for which we would grant approval. 5 Right now, around the state, 6 after our budget cutbacks, we are going to have 7 only 29 inspectors. So I think that a patron in 8 a bar is more likely to run into a state Senator 9 than they are to run into an inspector; and, 10 therefore, Senator Goodman, I must ask you, do 11 you think that to some extent that this 12 legislation is overreaching when it comes to the 13 public good and it comes to the service that the 14 public demands of government and the regulations 15 that are imposed on establishments that sell 16 liquor; that because of our own administrative 17 problems that may be enhanced by the fact that 18 we budget for 1995-96 a cutback that is going to 19 limit the Authority and also the ability of the 20 State Liquor Authority; that as a result of 21 that, we may be creating an encumbrance on the 22 consumer by going into establishments that 23 really are licensed when they have not actually 2341 1 met the threshold test for which we would grant 2 approval? 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I must 4 respectfully differ from your view of the 5 matter. I think that the greatest threat is 6 precisely the one that I have described, namely, 7 that the foot-dragging, which this agency is 8 notoriously guilty of having foisted upon its 9 applicants over many a year, results in the 10 types of very serious problems that I have 11 indicated which are both economic and 12 potentially breeding corruption; and I think 13 this bill strikes a reasonable ground in 14 approaching that problem by requiring prompt and 15 expeditious examination of the licensee and by 16 allowing, in effect, the elapse of the 45-day 17 period, an automatic instatement of the 18 applicant if circumstances are such that the 19 agency has, once again, been guilty of foot 20 dragging. Should circumstances arise after that 21 period and after the granting of the license, in 22 relatively rare cases where the applicant is 23 subsequently found to be an inappropriate 2342 1 applicant, the license can, of course, be 2 revoked and the public thus protected. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President, and through you, I think that Senator 7 Goodman is trying to alleviate a very serious 8 problem, and he explained very well what has 9 happened and the undue pressure that has often 10 been placed on the State Liquor Authority as a 11 result of foot-dragging on the part of the 12 agency. 13 If I accept that, Senator 14 Goodman, then my question to you, if you would 15 yield for a question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Goodman, do you yield? 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: I would just 22 like to know in the cases of licenses that are 23 granted, in a sense, by default in your 2343 1 legislation, how are we going to check at a 2 later date to make sure that we are not 3 licensing establishments, for instance, that are 4 going to have fire hazards or situations that 5 could create a great tragedy? I understand what 6 you are trying to alleviate. What I am trying 7 to suggest is that we don't want to create a 8 greater problem by alleviating the one that you 9 described. 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: I think I 11 understand the thrust of your concern, Senator, 12 but let me say that actually the coming on to 13 the scene of computerization will actually 14 facilitate the SLA's capacity to make judgments 15 that are appropriate in terms of the background 16 of the applicant. 17 As to the premises itself, these 18 are matters which relate not to the SLA but, 19 rather, to the fire department in the case of 20 fitness to open an establishment which sells 21 liquor in regard to its fire safety and the 22 like. I think the new technology actually makes 23 the 45-day limit more reasonable rather than 2344 1 less; and I simply would point out that periodic 2 inspections are required of any premises by the 3 fire department to try to assure that there are 4 not safety hazards of the type that concern 5 you. 6 I sincerely believe that the 7 public interest taken as a whole is well served 8 by the bill, and I would urge you to give it 9 your support. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Abate. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would 17 Senator Goodman yield to a question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Goodman, do you yield? 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR ABATE: It's my 2345 1 understanding of the bill that there would be 2 automatic approval after 45 days; and that if 3 the applicant objected and requested an 4 understanding of the status of the application, 5 within five days of receipt of that letter if 6 there was no decision made, there would be 7 automatic approval. Is that correct? Is that a 8 fair statement? 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, after the 10 45 days, as I indicated, earlier, the applicant 11 may file a document with the SLA indicating the 12 desire to have the license activated; and in 13 failure of the SLA to respond to that, it does 14 then become effective. 15 SENATOR ABATE: And would that be 16 the case, would there be automatic approval if 17 the applicant himself or herself caused the 18 delay in the decision-making of the SLA because 19 of nonresponsiveness, failure to produce certain 20 documents? I do not see anywhere in the bill 21 that would cause an exception to this automatic 22 approval if, in fact, the applicant is the cause 23 of the delay. 2346 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: No, Senator, 2 that is not my understanding of the way the bill 3 is structured. It certainly would not apply to 4 applicants who had been uncooperative or 5 unresponsive in the application process. 6 SENATOR ABATE: But since the - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Goodman, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I do. 10 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, thank you, 11 Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 continues to yield. 14 SENATOR ABATE: But since the 15 bill is silent on that issue, wouldn't it be 16 appropriate to include that language to insure 17 that recalcitrant or nonresponsive and non 18 cooperative applicants would not get a free ride 19 here and get automatic approval? And would you 20 consider amending the bill to include that? 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, as 22 I've indicated, that would not be necessary 23 because the procedure which exists for the 2347 1 approval of applications involves an application 2 and responsiveness to the questions raised in 3 the application, and it would simply not -- the 4 bill would not apply in a situation where there 5 were insufficient information indicated or where 6 the information was deemed to be inaccurate or 7 untrue. 8 SENATOR ABATE: It is your 9 understanding the bill would not apply in those 10 situations? 11 SENATOR GOODMAN: That's correct. 12 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator 13 Goodman yield to another question? 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, of course. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 continues to yield. 17 SENATOR ABATE: What would happen 18 in terms -- if a community objected, and there 19 are very complex issues around the 200-foot rule 20 and the 500-foot rule, and the community 21 suggests that it's not within the public 22 interest to have a liquor license granted in a 23 particular site, and the SLA wanted to go 2348 1 forward with hearings and there were new issues 2 raised, what would happen if those issues raised 3 were not exhausted, reviewed, debated? Wouldn't 4 that force the State Liquor Authority to reach a 5 decision without a full review of the process 6 and short circuit the community's ability to 7 debate the issue? 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Well, if the 9 community were raising questions as to legality 10 of the placement of the particular establishment 11 with respect to limitations as to number of feet 12 away from a church or the like, that would 13 automatically negate the 45-day period because, 14 as in the case of any number of other 15 disqualifying circumstances, the license could 16 not be granted because of the violation of the 17 state law and the regulations appertaining 18 thereto. 19 SENATOR ABATE: Would there be 20 an - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Goodman, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, I'm sorry. 2349 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I do, 2 Senator. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR ABATE: But there is no 6 direct language in the bill that says that when 7 a community objects and requests a hearing that 8 the time period would stop. 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: If the 10 community's objection relates to some illegality 11 or some violation of the license provisions and 12 that's something with which the SLA agrees, then 13 the SLA, of course, has the right to deny the 14 application. 15 SENATOR ABATE: But they may not 16 deal with it in 45 days, necessarily. 17 SENATOR GOODMAN: It's my 18 judgment -- and I don't know whether you would 19 agree or not, but our experience suggests to us 20 that 45 days should definitely be sufficient to 21 enable that type of illegality to be brought to 22 the attention of the SLA and for it to respond. 23 What we're simply trying to do, 2350 1 Senator, and I think it's very much in keeping 2 with the current trend of thinking, which is to 3 get government out of the way of small business; 4 and in a situation of this sort, it is our 5 belief that a month and a half is more than 6 sufficient to permit these matters to be 7 examined and to be ruled upon by the SLA. 8 Unfortunately, the consequence of 9 failing to do this promptly is the precise 10 consequence which the investigations of our 11 committee revealed were very, very serious and 12 detrimental to society; namely, corruption, 13 economic disadvantage to a whole host of 14 legitimate applicants, and the like, and we 15 believe that this approach is one which will 16 produce much better results. 17 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Abate on the bill. 20 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Senator 21 Goodman, I applaud your efforts and attention to 22 the State Liquor Authority over the course of a 23 number of years, and I agree with you there's a 2351 1 need to improve on the process, the timeliness 2 of the process and on a whole host of issues to 3 reform that agency, and it's also in the 4 interests of applicants as well as communities 5 to insure that those reforms occur. 6 Unfortunately, I believe the 45 7 days plus the five-day rule is unrealistic at 8 the same time when there are proposed cuts to 9 SLA; and I, as recently as two weeks ago, met 10 with the chairperson and some of the staff to 11 talk about the impact of those cuts. I believe 12 that the way these procedures stand would leave 13 some communities at a disadvantage when on the 14 rare occasion there is an applicant that is not 15 a good neighbor in terms of their current plans 16 or has not been a good neighbor in the past in 17 terms of past establishments. 18 So I can not -- although I 19 support the spirit of this bill, I can not 20 support the detail of the bill because I think 21 it's unrealistic; and in the short term, it will 22 shortchange communities and lessen their voice 23 in terms of objecting to inappropriate 2352 1 licensing. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. If Senator Goodman will yield for a 6 question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Goodman, do you yield? 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 13 Goodman, I thought that Senator Abate offered us 14 a kind of solution which, if I understood 15 correctly, she was asking that we amend the bill 16 and perhaps change the nature of the type of 17 license we would grant. We really want to 18 support your bill, Senator. We think you are 19 addressing something that you have raised which 20 maybe is not known by all but certainly has been 21 a real problem for small businesses, and that is 22 the foot-dragging of the agency, the prolonged 23 time that it takes to grant the license, and 2353 1 this leads to some of the very negative aspects 2 of government that we would like to really move 3 away from as a result of your bill. 4 But what Senator Abate was, I 5 think, suggesting was that if the period elapsed 6 -- and we all agree that it is a seasonable 7 period, that that the license should be granted 8 in that particular time. But if the period 9 elapses and the agency does not act on it, why 10 are we giving the business owner who may not 11 have conformed with the standards that we as 12 public policy would like to impose -- we just 13 automatically give them a license because one of 14 our agencies is acting in a substandard way. 15 Why would we not grant a temporary license so 16 that the business can go on and can sell alcohol 17 but still impose on the agency the duty of 18 finally approving the license under whatever the 19 standards are that we think that the business 20 should comply? 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, in 22 effect, any license granted to an establishment 23 to sell liquor is a temporary license. 2354 1 Revocation is always a possibility. And, for 2 example, in my home district, there are 3 instances in which we have the noisy bar 4 syndrome. Especially on weekend evenings in the 5 summer, people descend on bars and there's all 6 sorts of rowdy behavior and tumult and 7 commotion; and in those circumstances, the 8 aroused community has mobilized both the police 9 and the SLA, and licenses have been revoked. 10 There are a whole host of reasons 11 why licenses can be revoked, and I think the 12 very thought that you posit is one which is 13 covered by the way -- the practical manner in 14 which the law is now applied. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Through you, 19 to Senator Goodman. There is a difference 20 between a license that is issued that we then 21 have the right to revoke -- because the agency 22 grants the license, so the establishment has a 23 licensing authority as long as it's provided by 2355 1 the agency. But what we're saying is a 2 temporary license, the definition of that would 3 be that you can actually sell alcohol, but we as 4 a government are still going to confer on you a 5 final decision as to whether or not you deserve 6 to be doing it. 7 In other words, if the license 8 just goes into effect and there's no action 9 taken other than the fact that the agency didn't 10 take an action, I think that that would actually 11 stimulate exactly the kind of thing that goes on 12 now. The agency knows that if they don't do 13 anything, the establishment gets the license, 14 and then the agency really doesn't have any 15 authority and no one will really conduct the 16 proper investigating. 17 What we're suggesting is that we 18 still cause the agency to actually take some 19 kind of action. Senator Stachowski talked 20 privately to me, and we were talking about the 21 fact that they're closing down all the regional 22 offices. There will only be an office in New 23 York City. So if the agency has been dragging 2356 1 its feet to this point and we now have budget 2 cutbacks, even to the extent that if they try to 3 improve their work on this particular issue that 4 they still may be limited through lesser 5 resources. 6 What we are suggesting to you, 7 Senator Goodman, is that there is a real problem 8 with small establishments getting licenses 9 without any action on the part of the state 10 agency, without any approving authority, and 11 then leaving to consumer complaint or some other 12 avenue the revocation of that license if some 13 problem should arise. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, first 15 let me say - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Goodman. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: -- that although 19 your notion is commendable in theory, to grant a 20 temporary license, the fact of the matter is 21 that continues the very problem which we are 22 trying to solve; namely, that for many groups 23 seeking a license the granting of a temporary 2357 1 license does not permit bank loans to go 2 forward, because the bank loan, often, for the 3 capital improvements and the interior decoration 4 and the like of the bar/restaurant is contingent 5 upon the granting of the license. The temporary 6 license would not solve that problem. It would 7 not trigger the ability of the local 8 establishment to obtain the bank financing, 9 which is almost invariably a part of the 10 establishment of any such arrangement. 11 I think that -- again, I would 12 stress to you that what we're trying to do is to 13 set up a system where the preponderance of 14 activity will be covered, and I don't think it's 15 quite appropriate to suggest that the SLA is 16 allowing this to automatically occur without 17 surveillance. It has a staff. 18 One of the basic functions of the 19 SLA is to review license applications; and if 20 there is anything which its budget should be 21 devoted to, it is that area; so that you have a 22 staff of bureaucrats whose specific function is 23 to review the background, credentials, financial 2358 1 fitness, appropriateness of neighborhood 2 placement, and the like, of any applicant; and 3 to suggest that this is just going to go forward 4 willy-nilly without any supervision is simply 5 not accurate and not what would occur. 6 There is a 45-day period within 7 which this agency, which has staff to cover this 8 particular function, can do its thing and can 9 determine whether the license should be 10 granted. So it's by no means just throwing this 11 open to the wind of circumstance. This is 12 something which continues to be supervised but 13 in a way that is crisp, attentive to the needs 14 of the industry and something that will be a 15 particular boon of the small business person. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 17 recognizes Senator Markowitz. 18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you 19 very much, Mr. President. 20 I know you have had a lot of 21 legislation that you have introduced in the 22 past, and this is one of those that I think that 23 you are a good person who cares, as you have 2359 1 demonstrated here for many, many years; that 2 this is a bill, I think, that needs a little 3 more work. 4 Senator, I think it needs a bit 5 more work. There is a difference here between 6 establishments, small businesses in Manhattan 7 compared to what we face in Brooklyn, for 8 instance. There is no question about it. Areas 9 like Senator DiCarlo's in Bay Ridge would have a 10 different set of circumstances than the areas 11 that I serve in Central Brooklyn. 12 I can see wanting to expedite 13 restaurant licenses for liquor because I think 14 that that's what you will find generally has the 15 least opposition in the boroughs beyond 16 Manhattan. In Manhattan, many of the 17 restaurants that I frequent that have waited for 18 liquor licenses, they have also complained to 19 me. As you know, I am in your district quite 20 often, and not because Manhattan has better 21 restaurants than Brooklyn, that's for sure, but 22 because you have some unique restaurants in your 23 district, and I know that some of your residents 2360 1 complain when restaurants have outside cafes, 2 garden spots next to the restaurant and people 3 are eating outdoors and they are annoying those 4 whose apartments overlook the courtyard area of 5 some of your restaurants. 6 In Brooklyn, my concern is bars 7 and social clubs that are seeking to have liquor 8 licenses that directly impact the quality of 9 life in our neighborhood. We have too many of 10 these, in my opinion, and I know that the 11 community has the same feeling; and that is, 12 that we want to do whatever we can to limit the 13 number of liquor establishments in our area. 14 Now, in Manhattan, as you know, 15 you can have six restaurants on a block, both 16 sides of the block for most of the areas. As 17 you know, in our area it's quite different. 18 Secondly, I have had many cases 19 in front of the State Liquor Authority in terms 20 of bringing to their attention trying to 21 expedite restaurants -- restaurants that need 22 liquor licenses, and it is true that they have 23 dragged their feet. I really don't understand 2361 1 the procedures up there, Senator Goodman. I 2 think they need an overhaul. 3 Our new governor has said "Let's 4 make agencies user friendly." I think here's an 5 example. The State Liquor Authority needs a 6 complete overhaul in terms of how they are 7 structured, how they review their work, how they 8 expedite cases, how they make decisions. I have 9 not been happy with them whether it was under 10 Carey, Cuomo or under Pataki, I think that maybe 11 that's something that our committee, Senator 12 Goodman, that we can focus in on. 13 Yield on this bill because it 14 raises too many questions that I think don't 15 really come to the conclusions that we want. I 16 applaud your efforts. I know that restaurant 17 owners contact me and they want their licenses 18 expedited, and I agree that in most cases I 19 would like to see that granted. 20 What I am concerned about are the 21 others that come in asking for licenses, the 22 liquor stores that want to open up, the social 23 clubs that are seeking licenses; and so I think 2362 1 we ought to tread very, very lightly on this, 2 Senator. And, perhaps -- I would love to offer 3 my assistance to work with you and your very 4 capable staff in coming up with a piece of 5 legislation that meets your objectives of 6 helping the industry and at the same time will 7 not be a detriment to the quality of community 8 life that I know you care about and I care 9 about. 10 Thank you, Senator. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 12 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 14 Goodman yield to a question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Goodman, do you yield? 17 The Senator yields. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have some 19 recollection that in the process of the SLA 20 considering applications that they give notices 21 to local governments and to local police 22 departments about prospective applicants as well 23 prospective locations of restaurant 2363 1 establishments that will be serving alcohol. Is 2 that the case? 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Would you state 4 that again, that they give notice? 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Notice to 6 local communities, to town boards and to town 7 clerks and to town police departments of 8 applications that have been filed in that 9 community so as to allow the local officials and 10 the local police departments to give input to 11 the SLA regarding both any information they may 12 have about the applicant as well as any 13 information they might have about the actual 14 location of the proposed establishment. 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I do 16 not recall that that is a requirement of the 17 SLA. 18 While I'm on my feet, I wonder if 19 you would allow me in responding partly to your 20 question, partly to some others that have been 21 raised, one additional piece of information 22 which you should have. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's fine. 2364 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: That is that 2 under the section that we have been discussing, 3 the Authority would have to notify the 4 applicant, as I said earlier, within 45 days 5 that the application is approved or denied or - 6 and here's what I failed to mention earlier and 7 wish to add at this moment -- or that the 8 application is not complete, indicating the 9 respects in which the application is 10 incomplete. In the event of an incomplete 11 application, final action must be taken within 12 60 days of the original receipt of the 13 application not including the period during 14 which the authority waits for the applicant to 15 supply the additional information. 16 I simply wanted to have it 17 clear. That was the result of that confusion 18 initially on the 60 versus 45. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate 20 that, Senator. 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Now, as to your 22 question, I don't know the answer, Senator. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My 2365 1 understanding is that the SLA does that as a 2 matter of course; that they circulate that 3 information to local communities. 4 My question again, if Senator 5 Goodman will yield just to another, Mr. 6 President? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Goodman, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does the time 11 that the local government or local police 12 department or local planning board is 13 considering those issues in a report to the SLA, 14 is that time charged against the 45-day period 15 or the time period in here under which the SLA 16 has to act? Because certainly the SLA would not 17 have that information to act in that period of 18 time. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: That was 20 subsumed in the question that was raised by 21 Senator Abate, and I indicated that that 45- and 22 60-day limitation would include the opportunity 23 for communities to respond and to communicate 2366 1 concerns to the SLA based upon their local 2 reaction to the proposal. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 4 you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Goodman, do you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So under this 11 bill, the applications would be complete by the 12 applicant, but the SLA's process which requires 13 information from local government may not be 14 complete? 15 My point is, Senator, isn't there 16 a possibility that the person who gets punished 17 here is the SLA because its waiting for local 18 government to respond? 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, first 20 of all, as I have said, I'm not clear on the 21 premise of your question, so I can not comment 22 on that directly, but I can only say to you that 23 a 45-day period plus an additional 15 days if an 2367 1 application is incomplete is, in our judgment, 2 more than sufficient to enable the SLA to reach 3 a judgment as to whether the license should be 4 granted. 5 I would also add, merely for your 6 information in case you may not recall it, the 7 Senate has passed this legislation both in 1993 8 and 1994. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think with 10 yes votes from me, but I never looked at it as 11 carefully as we're looking at it today, which is 12 probably a good thing. 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: Right. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 15 other question, Mr. President. 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Then I want 18 to be heard on the bill. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The bill 2368 1 provides that if the time period expires, it 2 says, "The application shall be deemed granted 3 subject to any applicable standard terms or 4 conditions." What does that mean to the 5 applicant, that once the period is expired, he 6 or she can begin to sell alcohol immediately? 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: What line are 8 you on in the bill, if you'd be so kind? 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Page 3, 10 Senator, line 18 and 19. It says after 11 everything happens, "The application shall be 12 deemed granted subject to any applicable 13 standard terms or conditions." If the SLA 14 hasn't issued a decision, how do we know what 15 the standard ap' terms and conditions are? 16 For example, I think Senator 17 Markowitz talked about limiting time or limiting 18 hours of operation or limiting outside operation 19 or limiting the ability to sell on a porch, or 20 the ability to sell on a courtyard outside the 21 facility. Those, it would seem to me, would be 22 standard terms and conditions; yet if there is 23 no decision rendered by the SLA, then the 2369 1 applicant can be free to say, "There is no 2 opinion from the SLA. I can sell it under any 3 terms and conditions I want." 4 How do you impose those terms and 5 conditions without a decision? 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: The bill 7 starting on line 16 of page 3 reads, "That if 8 within five calendar days after the receipt of 9 such notice the Authority fails to mail a 10 decision, the application shall be deemed 11 granted subject to any applicable standard terms 12 or conditions." That's boiler plate which 13 obviously relates to the standard terms and 14 conditions of the granting of a license, the 15 whole series of strictures that relate to the 16 applicant -- he must not have prior record of 17 felony arrest; he must not be in a financially 18 embarrassed condition, et cetera, et cetera. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But just so I 20 understand, Mr. President, the types of terms 21 and conditions that Senator Markowitz talked 22 about, about restricting outside noise or where 23 you could sell it on the premises or whether you 2370 1 can sell it on the second floor or the first 2 floor, those kinds of things, there would be no 3 such restrictions when the license is granted 4 pursuant to the automatic license granting under 5 this. Those conditions wouldn't be applied. 6 Could the SLA ever impose those? 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: The SLA is 8 regulated by a strict set of conditions under 9 which it may or may not grant a license and all 10 this is saying is that 45 -- maybe let's take a 11 half step back and look at this in a broader 12 context. 13 What we're saying is there is no 14 reason on earth why the conditions which the 15 Investigations Committee unearthed should be 16 allowed to continue, which were essentially that 17 the SLA, often capriciously, delayed the 18 granting of licenses and that an individual 19 inspector could actually harass an applicant by 20 raising innumerable questions and getting 21 answers to them and then raising additional 22 questions and, in effect, holding a hand out to 23 grease the palm of the process so that it could 2371 1 be expedited and thus avoid further protracted 2 delay. 3 This situation reeks. It's one 4 that is essentially by its very design rife with 5 potential for corruption, and I don't know 6 exactly whether you or your colleagues have 7 given any thought to what you think would be a 8 reasonable time. After considerable thought, we 9 felt that a month and a half plus an extra 15 10 days grace plus the five-day period for response 11 in the event that an applicant has not heard was 12 more than sufficient for an adequate, prudent 13 review of the application; and in the event in a 14 very rare instance it was not sufficient and a 15 license were granted and the particular 16 establishment were not functioning 17 appropriately, the license could be revoked in a 18 flash. I think we have a safety net surrounding 19 the whole process which grants the public the 20 protection that it needs while at the same time 21 preventing the obvious corruption which relates 22 innumerable delays. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 2372 1 through you, Mr. President. I don't think 2 anybody - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Goodman, do you yield to Senator Dollinger. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: I will yield in 6 perpetuity, and I'm available without renewal of 7 that license on each occasion. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think 9 Senator Markowitz said it very well. I think we 10 all agree that you have pinpointed the problem 11 correctly, that is the fact that these delays 12 can take so long does create a tremendous 13 potential for corruption. "I'll grease the 14 skids for $100 or $1,000 or whatever the cost 15 is," that's where the corruption comes in, and I 16 clearly want to get at that problem. 17 My concern is whether the 18 automatic granting of the license -- the 19 question is what terms and conditions could it 20 be subject to? It seems to me the way this read 21 is that the kinds of restrictions that an SLA 22 would impose about time and place and location 23 and where you can sell and what you can sell 2373 1 would not be permissible under this language, 2 and so you can get a license in which you could 3 operate any place you wanted to without any 4 restriction. 5 Then the difficulty comes in, 6 under what standards -- and again through you, 7 Mr. President, so I understand as well, if 8 Senator Goodman would yield? 9 Under what standards -- once the 10 license is automatically granted, how would it 11 be revoked? How do we avoid the problem you 12 talk about? 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I am 14 not a liquor law lawyer, and I suspect from the 15 tenor of these questions that you may not have 16 had extensive experience in this area yourself. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, I - 18 certainly not. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: But I do know 20 this much, and that is that there is a very 21 specific set of rules and administrative 22 regulations as well as the actual State Liquor 23 law which prescribes in exquisite and, in some 2374 1 cases, agonizing detail the conditions under 2 which a liquor license may be granted. 3 On another occasion, I might 4 argue to you that this whole framework is a 5 throwback to the days of prohibition and there 6 is a ludicrously overdetailed and absurdly 7 restrictive series of regulations that relate to 8 this whole matter, but that's neither here nor 9 there today. For example, should we have to get 10 special license to sell liquor in grocery 11 stores? Many states do it. In my opinion, a 12 free market approach to this would not restrict 13 that; but, as I say, that's for another day. 14 But there are very specific 15 prescriptions as to the conditions under which 16 licenses can be granted. I do not have the 17 McKinney's with me to read those excerpts to 18 you, but if you take a moment to do a little 19 research on your own, you will satisfy 20 yourself. I am confident that this is not an 21 area which has not been looked at previously in 22 the law. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, on the 2375 1 bill, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger on the bill. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate 5 Senator Goodman's -- both his industry and 6 analyzing the problem because I think the 7 problem is properly analyzed. 8 I think -- and this is where I 9 agree with Senator Markowitz. I think that the 10 difficulty created in this bill -- and perhaps 11 in the last two years I haven't done enough 12 diligent work to detect it, but it was done this 13 year, and it seems to me it creates a couple 14 problems. One is if you provide the automatic 15 delivery of a license, the SLA may lose its 16 ability to put reasonable terms and conditions 17 that are not standard terms and conditions but, 18 nonetheless, may be acceptable in trying to 19 balance the community interest, the local public 20 interest, and the interest of the licensee. 21 Those kinds of restrictions which may not be 22 part of the standard terms, nonetheless, the SLA 23 would want to impose. If they've automatically 2376 1 got to grant it, they're not going to be able to 2 do that. 3 Then what are their options? 4 Their options are to revoke the license and try 5 to impose them, or to try to impose them, I 6 assume, outside a license proceeding, which may 7 be very difficult to do. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Would Senator 9 yield to me now for just a moment? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Dollinger, do you yield to Senator Goodman? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd be glad 13 to. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 yields. 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I must 17 confess I don't follow your logic at all. You 18 are implying that for some reason which eludes 19 me that there are not rules and regulations 20 which relate to the granting of a liquor 21 license. There are extensively detailed rules 22 and regulations which apply to the granting of a 23 liquor license, and all of those things come 2377 1 into play during the period in which the SLA 2 decides whether or not to grant the license. 3 Your sense that you convey of it 4 being completely unregulated is simply not in 5 accordance with the facts. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No, I'm - 7 I'm -- I'm not trying to convey that sense, 8 Senator. What I'm trying to suggest is that my 9 understanding of the SLA process is that they 10 can impose site-specific restrictions on sales 11 in particular locations. They may decide that 12 in Brooklyn in Senator Markowitz' district they 13 are not going to allow outside service of 14 alcohol. 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. Forgive 16 me, Senator. May I ask you to yield for a 17 moment? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Be glad to. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: This agency 20 does not have the right as you put it to apply 21 site-specific regulations which it invents to 22 tailormake to cut the cloth to fit each case. 23 There are standard regulations which apply to 2378 1 everybody, and they in their approach to this 2 administratively apply them. 3 The problem is that in doing so 4 they often get so bogged down and we have 5 repeated instances of the bogging down because 6 of the unbelievable one, two, two-and-a-half 7 year delays in the granting of a liquor license. 8 These are not small delays. These are egregious 9 delays which we've ferreted out, and also the 10 attending circumstances of the fact that there 11 have been efforts to unduly and improperly 12 influence the deliberation; and the sheer 13 dragging out of all of this is the very thing 14 that gives rise to these improprieties and acts 15 of potential corruption. 16 I'm using the word potential 17 carefully; but, frankly, we know that there are 18 great difficulties which we unearthed, and this 19 will stop it. 20 But they have regulations which 21 apply to all not situation specific. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, on the bill. 2379 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Dollinger on the bill. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I want to get 4 us out of the bog, as well, Senator, and I'm 5 trying to figure out whether this bill gets us 6 out of the bog so we're not bogged down. 7 But from my point of view, I 8 think that term needs greater definition. I'd 9 also point out that because there's going to be 10 an automatic license granted at the end of 45 11 days, I foresee that we will end up in a ton of 12 litigation between applicants and the State 13 Liquor Authority because the 45-day period is 14 missed, and you're going to end up with 15 litigation over who sent what when, when things 16 were received. 17 As a lawyer who looks at this, 18 whenever you look at time limits like statute of 19 limitations or automatic granting upon a 20 particular day, this paragraph is going to be 21 the source of just a ton of what I believe will 22 be needless litigation, and I think the 45-day 23 period is perhaps a little too concise to 2380 1 accomplish this. I'm afraid that you will end 2 up depriving the SLA of the ability to impose 3 conditions that would restrict licenses in some 4 instances, and I think you may create just a ton 5 of litigation. 6 I applaud the effort. I see the 7 problem. I think you're working in the right 8 area. I guess I agree with Senator Markowitz 9 that this particular section on page 3 needs a 10 little bit more work to fine tune it to make 11 sure it does what the sponsor sees the need to 12 do and which the statute should be designed to 13 expressly accomplish. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 15 any other Senator wishing to speak on this 16 bill? 17 Senator Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would 19 Senator Goodman yield to one question, please? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Goodman, do you yield to Senator Stachowski. 22 The Senator yields. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I didn't 2381 1 plan to be in the debate, but when I heard 2 Senator Goodman outline the situation that 3 brings up the corruption that he talks about and 4 that he is trying to eliminate, the thought 5 occurred to me that if that corruption should be 6 in the New York City area, then why did we 7 eliminate the regional offices and keep the New 8 York City office intact and not just do it the 9 opposite way where they didn't seem to have that 10 problem upstate and leave one of those offices 11 intact and maybe put more manpower there and 12 send them into New York to do the job instead of 13 doing it the other way around? 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I 15 don't know whether you were a Senator at the 16 time. You may recall that we actually held 17 public hearings in Buffalo for the purpose of 18 examining some very serious problems that you 19 had up here in precisely this area; and, in 20 fact, we found some of the corruption 21 indications in Buffalo to be equally if not more 22 serious than some that we ferreted out in New 23 York. We worked with your local police. They 2382 1 had been doing some clandestine videotaping of 2 certain establishments in one of your so-called 3 tenderloin areas where there are just all sorts 4 of problems, and I assure you this is a 5 statewide matter and not one that applies solely 6 to the New York. 7 As to the question of the ABC 8 boards versus the SLA, just to remind our 9 colleagues, there is a two-tiered arrangement 10 that exists under the law today, and it is one 11 which has -- is a classic example of redundancy 12 in government. There is no need to have two 13 tiers in the judgment of the Governor in his 14 latest budget bill on the subject, and in the 15 judgment of the Investigations Committee for the 16 past five or six years. The fact of the matter 17 is that the SLA has more than appropriate 18 equipment; and if you conceptualize it to match, 19 in effect, the approach which we have taken in 20 virtually every other major department of 21 government where you have one head and a series 22 of arms that reach out in the localities 23 emanating from the head without a separate 2383 1 juridical framework of regulatory agencies at a 2 lower level of the superstructure, the whole 3 thing would work much better. 4 We're dealing really with a -- I 5 think one of the significant areas in which we 6 intend to remold our government in a way that 7 will eliminate a whole lot things not just 8 corruption but terrific duplication, 9 inappropriateness of commissioners functioning 10 to try to dilute the authority of the chairman. 11 We want a strong agency head -- and, again, 12 we're wandering a little bit afield; I'll wrap 13 it up quickly -- a strong agency head with an 14 agency that functions effectively and 15 efficiently through its local offices but not 16 through redundant structures of the type that 17 the ABC represents. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: On the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Stachowski on the bill. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Just to 22 clarify a point, and I didn't confuse the SLA 23 and the ABC and the hearings are all going to be 2384 1 out of New York City traveling show now. 2 But the other point is that, 3 Senator Goodman, I remember the hearings that 4 you -- and that those were more dealing with 5 unlicensed establishments in a certain area of 6 the city of Buffalo that was a major problem 7 rather than in getting the licenses and delaying 8 the process. 9 So I still had that question. I 10 suppose that was an answer, I thank you for it, 11 but I still share Senator Paterson's concerns on 12 the 45 days. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 14 recognizes Senator Onorato. 15 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 16 Goodman, would you yield to a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Goodman, do you yield to Senator Onorato? 19 The Senator yields. 20 SENATOR ONORATO; I'm in favor of 21 this bill, the entire concept, because I too am 22 constantly asked why does it take so long to get 23 a liquor license not only in restaurants but in 2385 1 local grocery stores that want to sell beer or 2 wine or anything like that. 3 But under this automatic granting 4 of the license on the 45 or the 60 days, is 5 there a provision that automatically during that 6 period if it's granted that the State Liquor 7 Authority has the right to revoke it without 8 further litigation? Because once you grant 9 somebody something that they are licensed to 10 operate, they feel free that they can operate in 11 any way that they feel and that they may now 12 have a new right to start a court action or an 13 Article 78, whatever you want to call it, that I 14 have been granted this license and I think that 15 the SLA is acting in a capricious manner and I 16 want a temporary stay of that order. Can we 17 have something in there that would make it that 18 the license is granted until further inspection 19 warrants the automatic revocation of the 20 license? 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I see 22 what you are driving at, but my response would 23 be that anyone can bring an Article 78 2386 1 proceeding at any time. That's an ingenious 2 invention which you lawyers developed to protect 3 the rights and also the legal fees of a vast 4 array of attorneys who are prepared at any time 5 to unleash their Article 78 shotguns. 6 But the fact is, whether you 7 grant a license and indicate -- you can not bar 8 suits. An Article 78 proceeding can be brought 9 under any circumstances as I am advised, so that 10 I don't believe that your commendable objective 11 of minimizing litigation can realistically be 12 achieved by such language. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 16 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 21 the results when tabulated. 22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 148 are Senators 2387 1 Abate, Dollinger, Kruger, Markowitz, Montgomery, 2 Onorato, Paterson and Smith. Ayes 41. Nays 8. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 6 Stachowski. Ayes 40. Nays 9. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Larkin. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 10 Would you lay aside Calendar 143 for the day at 11 the request of the sponsor. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 13 143 is laid aside for the day. 14 Senator Larkin, there is no 15 housekeeping at the desk. What's your 16 pleasure? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 18 There being no further business, I move we 19 adjourn until Monday, March the 20th, at 3:00 20 p.m. sharp, intervening days to be legislative 21 days. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 23 stands adjourned, without objection, until 2388 1 Monday, 3:00 p.m. 2 (Whereupon, at 12:01 p.m., Senate 3 adjourned.) 4 5 6