Wednesday, March 22, 1995

2478 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 March 22, 1995 10 11:01 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 2479 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order, members please find 4 their chairs. Ask all our visitors in the 5 gallery, together with members, to rise and join 6 me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the 7 Flag. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 10 We're very pleased to be joined 11 today by the Rabbi Daniel Fried of the 12 Congregation Anshe Emeth of Columbia County. 13 Rabbi Fried. 14 RABBI FRIED: Ladies and 15 gentlemen of the Senate, before taking up 16 today's legislative business, I'd like to ask 17 you to join me in a moment of reflection and 18 prayer. 19 We invoke Your presence, O God, 20 at this session of the Senate. We ask that Your 21 spirit be a support and mainstay for these 22 dedicated men and women who have taken upon 23 themselves the weighty mantle of political 2480 1 leadership. Help them in fulfilling their 2 sacred trust of safeguarding the lives and 3 ensuring the well-being of all of those who 4 reside in the state of New York. 5 Let the awesome power vested in 6 this assemblage in regulating, influencing and 7 directing the lives of fellow New Yorkers be an 8 ever present consideration for its members. 9 Lord, endow these legislators 10 with the wisdom, skill and patience necessary to 11 grapple with the great and perplexing issues of 12 our day: How to make our streets and our 13 neighborhoods safe once again; how to give the 14 people of New York a healthy and wholesome 15 environment in which to live and raise their 16 children; how to create an economy in which 17 there will be full employment for all those who 18 desire to work; how best to feed the hungry, 19 house the homeless and care for the sick and 20 aged; how to rebuild the deteriorating 21 infrastructure of our towns and cities; how to 22 recapture the dynamism, sense of purpose and 23 vision of the future that was once synonymous 2481 1 with the Empire State. 2 May the legislative business 3 conducted this day and every day be attuned to 4 the collective needs of all the inhabitants of 5 New York and, in the words of your ancient 6 Psalmist we pray: (Phonetic) Vih-he naw-ahm 7 hashem eh-law-kay-noo ah-lay-noo oo-mah-ah-seh 8 yah-day-noo kay-nih-nah ah-lay-noo, oo-ma-ah-seh 9 yah-day-noo kaw-nih-neh-hoo. 10 "And let Thy graciousness, O 11 God, be upon us; establish Thou also the work of 12 our hands for us; Yea, the work of our hands, 13 establish Thou it." Amen. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 15 of the Journal. In Senate, Tuesday, March 16 21st. The Senate met pursuant to adjournment, 17 Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon designation of 18 the Temporary President. The Journal of Monday, 19 March 20th, was read and approved. On motion, 20 Senate adjourned. 21 Hearing no objection, the Journal 22 stands approved as read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 2482 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Communications and reports from 6 state officers. 7 Motions and resolutions. Senator 8 Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no 10 motions and resolutions at this time, Mr. Presi 11 dent, if we take up the non-controversial. 12 Senator Farley. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Farley for a motion. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 On behalf of Senator Leibell, Mr. 18 President, I move that the following bill be 19 discharged from its respective committee and be 20 recommitted with instructions to strike the 21 enacting clause: That's Senate Print 2983. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 will be recommitted and the enacting clause will 2483 1 be stricken. 2 The Chair recognizes Senator 3 Larkin. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 5 Calendar 198, Senate Bill 2655, I'd like to 6 place a sponsor's star. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 8 star will be placed on the bill. 9 Senator Skelos, we have one 10 substitution at the desk if you'd like to take 11 that now. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page number 5, 14 Senator Volker moves to discharge from the 15 Committee on Codes Assembly Bill Number 2659 and 16 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 17 Calendar Number 237. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 19 Substitution is ordered. 20 The Chair recognizes Senator 21 Velella. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 23 my bill, Calendar 221, Senate 2442, would you 2484 1 place a sponsor's star on that, please? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 3 star will be placed on Calendar Number 221. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: And also 223, 5 Senate Number 2766, would you also place a star 6 on that? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 8 star will be placed on Calendar Number 223. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 11 President, at this time if we could take up the 12 non-controversial calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the non-controversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page number 16 11, Calendar Number 10, by Senator Tully, Senate 17 Print 185-A, an act to amend the Civil Practice 18 Law and Rules, in relation to forfeiture of the 19 proceeds of a felony related to a sexual 20 performance by a child. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 2485 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 146, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 983, an 3 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, 4 in relation to the New York State fine arts 5 collection. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 7 aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 167, by member of the Assembly Schimminger, 12 Assembly Print 2488, an act to amend the General 13 Business Law and the Personal Property Law, in 14 relation to the cancellation of personal 15 emergency response service. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 20 September. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2486 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 176, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 2946, an 6 act to amend Chapter 696 of the Laws of 1887, 7 relating to providing hospitals, orphan asylums 8 and other charitable institutions in the city of 9 New York with water. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 190 -- 179, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 15 1634, an act to amend the Judiciary Law, in 16 relation to the seal of Albany County. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 21 January. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 2487 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 191, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1109, an 7 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 8 relation to real property held in trust for 9 certain senior citizens. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 14 January. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 194, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1977, an act 23 in relation to authorizing the Department of 2488 1 Transportation to survey areas of the state. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 212, by Senator Farley, Senate Print Number 14 1092, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law 15 and the Social Services Law, in relation to 16 withholding social service rents payable. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 Senator Skelos, that completes 21 the non-controversial calendar. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time, if 23 we can take up the controversial calendar, Mr. 2489 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the controversial calendar. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 10, by Senator Tully, Senate Print Number 185-A, 6 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules 7 in relation to forfeiture of the proceeds. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Tully, an explanation has been asked for by 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 Mr. President, this bill requires 15 civil forfeiture of property by certain persons 16 convicted of sex offenses to include a person 17 convicted of or a defendant who has been 18 indicted for an offense related to the sexual 19 performance of a child. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 21 recognizes Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully, 23 you were extremely open to questions and to 2490 1 amendments on this particular bill and we 2 appreciate that. You're addressing a very 3 serious issue in our society involving the 4 criminality of individuals. 5 I'd like to know if you would 6 yield for a question at this time. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Tully yield for a question? 9 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Tully yields, Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully, 14 the bill, as I read it, says that it requires 15 the local district attorneys to take the action 16 that they are taking in this particular case 17 but, in my opinion, that conflicts with the 18 C.P.L.R., particularly section 13-A which 19 relates to civil forfeitures in that the civil 20 forfeiture law is permissive, and so even at a 21 point that there would be the threshold test in 22 which the forfeiture might be achieved, why 23 would we require the district attorney when - 2491 1 and not leave it up to the district attorney as 2 to whether or not they, at that point, want to 3 achieve the forfeiture? 4 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 5 Senator Paterson. 6 Mr. President, the concept is 7 that mandating it would make sure that no one 8 slips through the cracks, and the bill does 9 authorize a forfeiture proceeding under C.P.L.R. 10 Section 1311 which the Court of Appeals has 11 already held to be possessive of the requisite 12 procedural safeguards. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Would Senator 14 yield for another question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Tully, you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator continues to yield, Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: What I don't 22 understand, Senator Tully, is that the district 23 attorney has a number of options in this 2492 1 particular situation. If the district attorney 2 is really motivated by convicting the individual 3 of the crime, they might not want to seek the 4 forfeiture and, if we're mandating it, in a 5 sense we're kind of micromanaging the district 6 attorney's office relating to criminal offenses 7 and their prosecution, which a district attorney 8 is elected to do by the population. 9 I don't really see the need to 10 have this bill require district attorneys where 11 I would have written the law to have said -- to 12 have stated that it enabled district attorneys 13 to do so. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Senator Paterson makes a good 17 plea on behalf of the district attorneys. As he 18 indicated earlier, we have kept this bill open 19 for amendment. We have amended it. We have had 20 an opportunity to have it shown to the district 21 attorneys' offices in this state and we have no 22 memorandum or other indication from those 23 offices that they are in opposition to the bill 2493 1 as it exists today. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson, do you wish to continue to speak? 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. I was 5 just waiting to be recognized, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson, on the bill. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: On the bill, 9 Mr. President. 10 The civil forfeiture law is, in 11 my opinion, a very dangerous piece of 12 legislation. It definitely conflicts, in my 13 opinion, with the due process clause of the 14 Fourteenth Amendment of our Constitution. 15 There are certain emergencies 16 where I think that we actually recognize that 17 the criminality has risen to such a threshold 18 that we might seek civil forfeitures. In the 19 cases of drug dealing and the openness and the 20 notorious way the drug dealers present their 21 assets, I think it's actually a good idea. In 22 other words, we will seize the assets of these 23 individuals and send a message, a message to 2494 1 children, for instance, that we are going to go 2 right after the profit of drug dealing. 3 I don't understand how this 4 particular legislation actually would send that 5 message in as visible a way as we have in other 6 situations, and I think we're starting to open 7 the door by mandating the civil forfeiture of 8 people's property, people who are not convicted 9 of a crime, people who are in many cases not 10 even indicted for a crime, and yet we're going 11 to pick up their assets because a preponderance 12 of the evidence has been established that they 13 may be guilty. In other words, we are 14 suspicious that they may be engaging in the sale 15 of child pornography. We have a reason to 16 believe that they are profiteering off of the 17 sexual performance of a child. But it's the 18 belief that separates this country from other 19 countries. In the Iron Curtain countries, the 20 belief is enough for individuals to have many of 21 their liberties subjugated by the state; but 22 this is America, and we have a presumption of 23 innocence and we're not saying that there 2495 1 shouldn't be firm prosecution in this particular 2 area. 3 What I'm arguing is that we want 4 to force prosecutors to prosecute, not to give 5 them the out of forfeiting the proceeds from the 6 sexual performance of a child or from drug 7 dealing or from anything else. We want to see 8 these individuals convicted. If you seize the 9 assets, this might actually have a chilling 10 effect on the prosecutor going forward, which is 11 why I would like for the district attorneys to 12 have as much of an option in this situation, and 13 I'm very glad to hear that Senator Tully is 14 willing, if any of the district attorneys' 15 offices want to come forward, to discuss this 16 issue, as he's been very open in terms of the 17 process of passing this bill all along. 18 But I can't vote for this bill in 19 good conscience. I can't vote for it because I 20 don't think it really conforms to the 21 protections that set our country apart from 22 other nations, and those are the presumptions of 23 innocence and the rigorous burden of proof that 2496 1 must be established before a person is 2 incarcerated. 3 I think that there should be an 4 additional burden before we start to seize the 5 assets of individuals, and I think that that is 6 the reason that I can't support this bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 8 recognizes Senator Dollinger on the bill. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. My lips are unsealed. 11 Will Senator Tully yield to one 12 question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Tully, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 15 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 16 President, I will yield, and I would say in 17 behalf of my colleagues on this side of the 18 aisle, that we're at least happy that we had one 19 in a row with Senator Dollinger. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senator yields, Senator Dollinger. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, through you. Was consideration 2497 1 given, Senator -- I know this has been a bill 2 that you sought input from other parties and 3 suggested receptivity to amendments -- was it 4 ever considered that the proceeds from the civil 5 forfeiture would go to the crime victims 6 assistance board for the purposes of reimbursing 7 victims directly who are victims of sexual abuse 8 or -- I know that this deals with the sexual 9 performance by a child and I know that it's 10 included in there to fund treatment programs, 11 but my question is, was it ever considered to 12 just give it to the crime victims assistance 13 board to allow them to draw down the funds for 14 treatment or pay -- compensation for pain and 15 suffering or other consequences of being 16 victimized in these instances? 17 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 18 President. That was considered and apparently 19 there's a procedure in existing law that 20 provides as to how these monies would be spread 21 out and these are the ones that have not been 22 considered, and that's the reason they were 23 included in the statute. 2498 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So again 2 through you, Mr. President just so I understand 3 that. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Tully, you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator continues to yield, Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: At one time 11 it was considered to give it exclusively to the 12 crime victims assistance board and then decided 13 not to, and instead the funds -- training pro 14 grams and other programs such as are described 15 on page 2 of the bill. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 17 President, and there is no need to consider 18 that, because they are already provided for in 19 C.P.L.R. Section 1311. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 21 through you, Mr. President, just so I understand 22 it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2499 1 Tully, you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 continues to yield. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does the 7 section -- does the section in 1311 deal with 8 the pre-conviction forfeiture or does it simply 9 say that's where the fines -- the post 10 conviction fines and assessments against the 11 convicted person, those funds go to the victims 12 -- crime victims assistance board? 13 In other words, I'm trying to 14 make a point, Mr. President, as to whether this 15 is a pre-conviction forfeiture. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 17 I'm advised by counsel it's the latter. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's -- maybe 19 I should just ask for a clarification, then of 20 my former and latter. Which one is it? 21 SENATOR TULLY: I wouldn't 22 struggle the stenographer to read it back, so 23 let's go through it again. 2500 1 SENATOR TULLY: 1311, Mr. 2 President, for the benefit of Senator Dollinger 3 deals with post-conviction. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Post 5 conviction fines. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Yes. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So the post 8 conviction fines go to the crime victims 9 assistance board. I guess my question is, if 10 you have a pre-conviction forfeiture doesn't 11 that take all the assets out of the defendant so 12 that the post-conviction fine ends up being 13 somewhat meaningless because the accused, the 14 now convicted felon, doesn't have the assets to 15 pay for the fine to go to the victims assistance 16 board? 17 SENATOR TULLY: No, Mr. 18 President. This statute is specific in that it 19 indicates that when the forfeiture is based upon 20 a post-conviction crime or a pre-conviction 21 crime defined in Article 263 of the Penal Law as 22 opposed to 1311 of the C.P.L.R., you then would 23 give it for training as we've indicated in this 2501 1 bill or to train law enforcement officers and to 2 be a treatment program for the victims. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, just 4 one thing, again through you, Mr. President, 5 just so I - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Tully, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 continues to yield, Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The effect of 13 this bill is to allow the forfeiture to go to 14 these items, and there's already current law 15 that provides that post-conviction fines go to 16 the victims assistance board? 17 SENATOR TULLY: No, the current 18 current law does not. No, Mr. President, I 19 think he has it reversed. The current law, 20 C.P.L.R. Section 1311 is the pre-conviction. 21 This statute deals with both pre-conviction or 22 post-conviction and specifies those areas which 23 are not covered in 1311 under section 263 of the 2502 1 Penal Law. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Thank 3 you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 5 any other Senator wishing to speak on this 6 bill? 7 Senator Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Senator 9 Tully, would you yield to a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Tully, do you yield to a question from Senator 12 Abate? 13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields, Senator Abate. 17 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, I'd like 18 clarification. It's my understanding that the 19 district attorney is not required to commence a 20 proceeding. He may be able to commence and that 21 can be done either at the indictment stage or 22 post-conviction. There's no mandatory 23 requirement under this bill; am I correct? 2503 1 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 2 SENATOR ABATE: You had some 3 discussion with Senator Paterson that it was 4 mandatory. I don't see that language within the 5 bill. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 7 that's my understanding also. Senator Paterson 8 was the one who indicated there was a 9 possibility of that, and I responded that we 10 hadn't heard anything to that effect from the 11 district attorneys association. 12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, because in 13 many cases district attorneys will wait until 14 there is conviction because they will not want 15 their witnesses to undergo cross-examination and 16 have premature discovery; so I read this that 17 they can choose to proceed either at the 18 indictment stage or post-conviction. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 20 Senator Abate. I'm delighted that one of my 21 colleagues can read this legislation with such 22 clarity. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2504 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 4 January. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results when tabulated. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 10 are Senators 12 Leichter and Paterson. Ayes 46, nays 2. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 146, by Senator Goodman, Senate Bill Number 983, 17 an act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs 18 Law. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Goodman, an explanation has been asked for by 22 Senator Stachowski. 23 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 2505 1 the purpose of this bill is to allow the State 2 Museum to work with public and private holders 3 of art works significant to New York State to 4 develop a New York collection suitable for 5 touring art, research and public access. 6 The bill adds another section to 7 the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law requiring the 8 State Museum to develop and implement a plan for 9 a collection of fine arts of significance to the 10 state whether owned by a public or private 11 institution or an individual, with nomination of 12 works in the collection based on historic 13 significance, artistic achievement in 14 relationship to New York. 15 The owner of the work must agree 16 to be nominated, to have his work nominated to 17 the collection, and the commissioner is required 18 to establish standards for access to the work 19 which may include access by researchers, 20 preservation and maintenance of the work and 21 loan to museums or other cultural institutions. 22 The State Museum is required to 23 work with the owners to maximize public interest 2506 1 in and exposure of the work by such means as 2 publishing a catalogue of the work, mounting 3 exhibits, pursuing research and other 4 interpretive programs. 5 There are many major works of 6 distinction in New York and in such schools as 7 the Luminous and others, which are of interest 8 to the public and the researchers. However, the 9 works are scattered in various institutions and 10 private collections throughout the state, and 11 this bill would allow the State Museum to work 12 with the holders and owners of the art work to 13 develop a comprehensive approach to the work 14 which will ultimately benefit the public and 15 researchers. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 19 President, will Senator Goodman yield for a 20 question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Goodman will you yield. 23 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will, Mr. 2507 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 yields. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: The main 5 reason I asked for the explanation was to ask 6 this question. It's my understanding that the 7 State Museum along with many other departments 8 and areas of the state budget have received some 9 cuts in their budget and, with that in mind, I 10 found it interesting that we're finding some 11 more work for them to do even though we're 12 taking away some of their resources. 13 Do you have any idea that they'll 14 be able to carry out this new task that you're 15 giving them with the fact that they've had some 16 budget cuts? I'm not sure, that's why I'm 17 asking you. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Good question, 19 Senator. Fact is this is a multi-year project 20 and this year there's only planning to be done. 21 The fiscal impact of it upon the museum would 22 not be felt until future years, and I'm not 23 certain that there would be any significant 2508 1 fiscal impact at all. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 3 recognizes Senator Stachowski. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I appreciate 5 Senator Goodman's answer, and the only reason I 6 asked the question was -- and it had nothing to 7 do with the State Museum, but in other depart 8 ments, when we've had prospective commissioners 9 come in in the last couple of weeks, one of the 10 big things they mention in anticipation of 11 becoming the head of the department, was that in 12 light of the budget cuts that their various 13 departments were expecting to have, they were 14 concerned that we were going to continue to pass 15 bills that asked for new studies, new reports, 16 new work loads after we had taken away some of 17 their resources. 18 I will accept in this case 19 Senator Goodman's explanation that he doesn't 20 anticipate any problem with getting this 21 particular bill done without causing any work 22 load. However, if the museum makes a point that 23 this could be a problem to us maybe we should 2509 1 pass that on and maybe stop this bill further 2 along in this procedure, either in the Assembly 3 or at the Governor's offers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Mr. 7 President, thank you. I wonder if Senator 8 Goodhue would yield to just one question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Goodman would be happy to yield. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 12 Goodhue? 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm sorry. 14 I'm sorry. As you can see, I miss Senator 15 Goodhue. 16 Senator Goodman, on this -- on 17 this legislation, is there any -- any indication 18 that you want to make sure that the collection 19 is reflective of the wide variety of artists in 20 our state? I know that I have a number of major 21 African-American artists living in my district 22 and -- African-American and white and other 23 artists who live in my district -- and I 2510 1 certainly would not want to see our collection 2 skewed one way or the other and especially that 3 it should leave out some of the works of some of 4 those major artists. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, I 6 assure you that there is no -- that I'd be happy 7 to work with you to be assured that that 8 objective is realized, and there's nothing in 9 the bill that would in any way be adverse to 10 that objective. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 12 SENATOR GOODMAN: I might just 13 mention to you, at this very moment at the 14 Museum of Modern Art in New York, there is - 15 the single featured exhibit is that of a famous 16 black artist who's chronicled black life in 17 America, and obviously anyone who is familiar 18 with art in any particular knows that artists of 19 many backgrounds contribute greatly to the 20 enrichment of our culture. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Absolutely. 22 Thank you, Senator. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 2511 1 recognizes Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 3 President, I feel a necessity. 4 Senator Goodman, I apologize to 5 you. I think Senator Stachowski doesn't, after 6 all these years -- apparently doesn't understand 7 the system. 8 Senator Stachowski, you shouldn't 9 worry about the budgetary implications here. 10 The process is one of perspective and priority. 11 So many of us have heard that there are certain 12 budgetary freezes, but I understand -- it's only 13 a rumor, but I understand that in the last few 14 days there was a little bit of money that was 15 released. It had to do with fixing stages up at 16 Saratoga, I was told. 17 Of course, the Holocaust Center 18 at Queensborough Community College has to cut 19 back and there are people who are being told 20 that they won't have hours of nursing care, et 21 cetera, but I guess, you know, it's a question 22 of getting your priorities straight. 23 Of course, I'll be able to give 2512 1 everybody a better answer to that next week 2 because it's my understanding from an 3 announcement that just came to my district 4 office that the Governor who, by the way, voted 5 affirmatively for the Holocaust law last year 6 that would mandate education, and the Governor, 7 I know, does not like mandates so in voting for 8 the Holocaust bill, I know that was quite a step 9 -- on this Sunday I just got an announcement 10 the Governor is going to be speaking at the 11 installation of officers of the Queens Jewish 12 Community Council, so I know when the subject of 13 the great damage to the Holocaust Museum is 14 raised by someone -- I don't know who might ask 15 that question -- maybe we'll get a better 16 insight into the budget, Senator Stachowski, and 17 then we can understand how this bill by Senator 18 Goodman, which I think is a wonderful idea and a 19 great priority and great perspective, I'll tell 20 you next week how all of this budget stuff 21 works. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 23 recognizes Senator Leichter. 2513 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 Senator Goodman, your erudition, 4 as always, is very admirable and striking. I 5 was just intrigued at your memo in the reference 6 to the "Luminous" and I wondered if you could 7 tell us a little bit about that school of art 8 and the reason they've been identified here as a 9 group that's worthy of being part of this 10 collection or at least the study that your bill 11 requires. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Goodman, would you be so kind as to augment the 14 information that's available to Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, Mr. 17 President, I shall be so kind. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 19 you. 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator 21 Leichter, as you may be aware the "Luminous" 22 refers to the Hudson River school of painters, 23 and the Hudson River school of painters are 2514 1 peculiarly identified with New York because in 2 the period during the 19th Century when they did 3 their work, they focused at first on a number of 4 scenes within the Hudson River area. 5 These are particularly 6 interesting works of art, not just from the 7 standpoint of depiction of the beauty of New 8 York State, but also because in the school of 9 painting romanticism, the Hudson River school 10 occupies a unique place in the world firmament 11 of artists. 12 The Romanticists, as you may 13 know, had a unique style which generally could 14 be identified because in the foreground of 15 paintings, there was usually a depiction of work 16 which was more or less in shadow and which 17 typically was represented in a arch form of 18 presentation and through the arch there was a 19 luminous depiction of either sunsets or sun or 20 other bright and very intense chromatic 21 depiction of a scene which contrasted vigorously 22 to what was in the foreground. 23 This type of romantic approach 2515 1 was used by many other world artists, but we 2 innovated this and because we did the Luminous 3 school plays a decisive role in the history of 4 art. That was simply one example of the kind of 5 work, but a foremost variety of work which is to 6 be utilized, and I think what you can understand 7 is that by identifying the location of all of 8 these types of work and at some point perhaps 9 bringing them together in a master presentation 10 of an art show, it gives the public great oppor 11 tunity which it would not otherwise have if we 12 hadn't catalogued and identified the location of 13 these diverse works of art. 14 So I think over time, although 15 this is certainly not an expensive matter and 16 impacts virtually not at all on the budget and 17 is especially assisted, incidentally, by 18 computerization and technology which enables us 19 at low cost to input all of the data relating to 20 location of art works, that this is a very 21 constructive idea and one which is largely 22 organizational and conceptual in bringing before 23 the public the very best that the state has to 2516 1 offer from its vast resources and collections. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 3 recognizes Senator Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't think 5 I did Senator Goodman justice when I talked 6 about his erudition. Obviously it goes far 7 beyond that. I want to say that that was an 8 extremely edifying explanation. I never knew 9 that the Hudson school had been referred to 10 initially as Luminous, but your explanation is 11 very good, and I would just add to the bill if I 12 had a chance to make an amendment that in 13 working on this collection, this compilation, 14 that the State Museum ought to check with you 15 because you bring a great deal of knowledge. I 16 say that very sincerely. Thank you. 17 I will support the bill 18 enthusiastically. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 20 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Hearing none, the Secretary will 23 read the last section. 2517 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 176, by Senator Velella, Senate Bill Number 11 2946, an act to amend Chapter 696 of the Laws of 12 1887, relating to providing hospitals, orphan 13 asylums and other charitable institutions in the 14 city of New York with water. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 18 would the sponsor be willing to lay this bill 19 aside for the day? We have a number of members 20 and also groups, including the city of New York, 21 that would like to comment on this bill. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2518 1 bill aside for the day. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 212, by Senator Farley, Senate Bill Number 1092, 4 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and 5 the Social Services Law, in relation to 6 withholding social services rents payable to 7 landlords. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Farley, an explanation has been asked for by 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. Incidentally, New York City is 14 excluded from this bill. 15 This was a bill that came about 16 as a request from a county, and the counties are 17 very enthused about it. It would permit 18 counties the option of withholding social 19 services rent payments to landlords who are 20 delinquent in payment of their real property 21 taxes. That's over a three-month period, you 22 know, when it goes back to the county, not just 23 modestly delinquent. 2519 1 Under the section 159 of the 2 Social Services Law, landlords who have welfare 3 recipients as tenants may receive rental 4 payments directly from the Department of Social 5 Services as you're aware. Specifically, some 6 counties are sending Department of Social 7 Services checks to landlords, when those same 8 individuals are failing to meet their financial 9 obligations to the county by not paying their 10 property taxes. 11 Incidentally, they are not 12 permitted to evict the tenant. All -- and this 13 -- there's precedent for this in that they are, 14 for instance, allowed to withhold rent if the 15 property becomes unsafe or in bad repair, that 16 sort of thing, and let me see, it would apply to 17 all property taxes. As I mentioned, the city of 18 New York is excluded and he can pay partial 19 payment, it's held in escrow. 20 Are there any other questions? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Would Senator 2520 1 Farley be willing to yield for a question? 2 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll be 3 delighted to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Farley is delighted to yield to you, Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 8 Senator Farley, have you considered expanding 9 this bill to actually allow the county to notify 10 all tenants in the particular buildings that - 11 for which the landlord has not paid taxes and 12 then basically pick up everybody's rent and send 13 it to the county to pay the taxes, instead of 14 isolating just the clients of social service 15 which we think might have a chilling effect even 16 though you have -- you've addressed this in your 17 bill by prohibiting the landlords from evicting 18 those tenants because of the non-payment of 19 rent; but at the same time the chilling effect 20 that I'm describing is the landlord that will 21 decide that maybe they could have tax problems 22 in the future and they're just not going to rent 23 to clients of Social Service or welfare 2521 1 recipients because later down the road that 2 money could go to the county? They've already 3 eschewed the opportunity to pay their taxes. I 4 think they would take the next step and just not 5 rent to individuals whose rent payments could be 6 confiscated by the county. 7 So what I'm suggesting is that we 8 expand the bill and allow the county to notify 9 all the tenants that the landlord's rent, that 10 the landlord's taxes are in arrears and at that 11 point, I think we might, you know, not create a 12 circumstance where certain individuals are stig 13 matized by this legislation. And my question to 14 you is, have you considered expanding the 15 legislation? 16 SENATOR FARLEY: I understand 17 your point. I'm afraid that, again, we're 18 philosophizing that the counties might be 19 opposed to that because of the extra effort that 20 may have to be imposed upon them as far as 21 notifying. 22 Actually, the Social Services 23 tenants are not notified per se. They're not 2522 1 notified or they wouldn't be aware of this. 2 It's just that the landlord will not receive the 3 social service payments for rents when he's not 4 meeting his obligation to pay the taxes. The 5 counties have to pick up that burden, and the 6 counties are very enthusiastic for this. 7 There was a concern, and a 8 concern that I had, that maybe landlords would 9 be reluctant to rent to welfare clients, but the 10 Department of Social Services says, at least has 11 said to me, that they don't feel that that's a 12 problem at all. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Rath. 15 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr. Chairman. 16 I'd like to commented on the -- excuse me -- on 17 the legislation. As it came by us last year, I 18 think I probably commented also, and I said to 19 Senator Farley there are wonderful things that 20 happen if you spend enough time in a legislative 21 body as I did in the Erie County Legislature, 22 and this was an item that we did in Erie County 23 about ten years ago. We called it Project 2523 1 Intercept, and we only did it for about three or 2 four weeks until we were notified by the state 3 that we couldn't do it. 4 So now what Senator Farley is 5 making happen is making it possible for counties 6 to take this action, and I would like to tell 7 you the results of one county who did it, if you 8 will, kind of by the seat of our pants for a 9 period of three to four weeks. We collected 10 over $400,000, and people came forward asking, 11 number one, please don't publish in the 12 newspaper who those of us are whose rents are in 13 arrears because you would be surprised how many 14 people I knew and how many community people that 15 you would think that they had paid all the rents 16 on their property, how they showed up and how 17 quickly they walked into the Tax and Finance 18 Department and wrote out major checks in order 19 to make sure that they would not have their 20 names published. 21 It's a wonderful program. It 22 could probably stand some expansion and contin 23 uing activity. We found the city of Buffalo was 2524 1 not able to participate with us because of 2 additional circumstances that foreclosed them 3 from this possibility, but as this stands right 4 now, this is a piece of legislation and a 5 program or a Project Intercept, if anyone picks 6 up the same name, that will pull money together 7 for counties, monies they should have, monies 8 that they deserve, and monies that will help 9 them in their budgetary problems. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 12 (There was no response.) 13 Hearing none, Secretary - 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 21 the results when tabulated. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Incidentally, 23 that bill is open to anybody that wishes to get 2525 1 on it. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 212, Senators 4 Abate, Connor, Markowitz, Paterson. Ayes 49, 5 nays 4. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Skelos, that completes 9 the controversial calendar. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 11 President. Is there any housekeeping at the 12 desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Nothing 14 at the desk, Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 just a reminder to the members of the Majority 17 that there will be a conference immediately 18 following session tomorrow, and now there being 19 no further business, I move we adjourn until 20 Thursday, March 23rd, at 10:00 a.m., sharp. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until 23 tomorrow -- note the time change, to 10:00 a.m. 2526 1 Senator Gold, before we adjourn? 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, before you 3 adjourn, on Calendar Number 212, may I have 4 unanimous consent to be voted in the negative, 5 please. Thank you very much. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Gold will be recorded in the 8 negative on Calendar Number 212. 9 Without objection, the Senate 10 stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, at 11 10:00 a.m. Immediate conference of the Majority 12 thereafter. 13 (Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the 14 Senate adjourned.) 15 16 17 18 19