Wednesday, April 12, 1995

4513 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 12, 1995 10 11:06 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 4514 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come to order. Ask all the members to find 4 their places. Ask everybody in the chamber 5 including those in the gallery to rise and join 6 with me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to 7 the Flag. 8 (Whereupon, the Senate and those 9 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to 10 the Flag.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: In the 12 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a 13 moment of silence. 14 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 15 silence.) 16 Reading of the Journal. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Tuesday, April 11. The Senate met pursuant to 19 adjournment. Senator Kuhl in the chair upon the 20 designation of the Temporary President. Prayer 21 by Reverend Father Mergerdichian, Holy Cross 22 Armenian Apostolic Church, Troy. The Journal of 23 Monday, April 10, was read and approved. On 4515 1 motion, Senate adjourned. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 3 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 4 read. 5 Presentation of petitions. 6 Messages from the Assembly. 7 Messages from the Governor. 8 Reports of standing committees. 9 Records of select committees. 10 Communications and reports from 11 state officers. 12 Motions and resolutions. 13 Chair recognizes Senator Wright. 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 15 On behalf of Senator Levy, on page number 26, I 16 offer the following amendments to Calendar 17 Number 366, Senate Print Number 3942, and ask 18 that said bill retain its place on the Third 19 Reading Calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 21 Amendments are received and adopted. The bill 22 will retain its place on the Third Reading 23 Calendar. 4516 1 Senator Wright. 2 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 3 On behalf of Senator Levy, on page 13, I offer 4 the following amendments to Calendar Number 120, 5 Senate Print Number 334, and ask that said bill 6 retain its place on the third calendar reading. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Amendments are received and adopted. Bill will 9 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 10 Senator Bruno, we have a couple 11 of substitutions at the desk if you would like 12 to take those at this time. 13 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 14 Please make the substitutions. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 18 Senator Libous moves to discharge from the 19 Committee on Health, Assembly Bill Number 3826A 20 and substitute it for identical Senate Bill, 21 Calendar Number 417. 22 On page 6, Senator Hannon moves 23 to discharge from the Committee on Health, 4517 1 Assembly Bill Number 5759 and substitute it for 2 the identical Calendar Number 418. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Substitutions are ordered. 5 Senator Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. I 7 believe there is a resolution at the desk. I 8 ask at this time that you read the title and 9 move its adoption. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the title of a privileged resolution 12 at the desk. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 14 Goodman and others, Legislative Resolution, 15 honoring the Metropolitan Museum of Art upon the 16 occasion of its 125th anniversary. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 question is on the resolution. All those in 19 favor, signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 The Resolution is adopted. 4518 1 Senator Bruno. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 3 Can we now take up the noncontroversial 4 calendar? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the noncontroversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 8 Calendar Number 178, by Senator Lack, Senate 9 Print 1298, an act to amend the Real Property 10 Law, in relation to allowing an assignment of 11 mortgage. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 17 268, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2406, an 18 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 19 custodial account programs for employees of 20 state universities. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4519 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 272, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1430, an 10 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation 11 to real property tax payments made by mobile 12 home owners. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the first day of 17 January. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 4520 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 301, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 2941, an 3 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 4 relation to granting a real property tax 5 exemption to senior citizens. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 308, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3185, an 18 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to refunds 19 for overpayment of the highway use tax. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect September 1. 4521 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 327, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 11626, an 9 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 10 to telephone blocking services and repealing 11 such provisions upon expiration thereof. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 3623, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3781, an 4522 1 act to incorporate the city of Staten Island to 2 enact a charter for the city of Staten Island. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 388, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3021, an 8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 including carjacking within the definition of 10 the crime of robbery in the second degree. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 Senator Bruno, that completes the 23 noncontroversial calendar. 4523 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Now, Mr. 2 President, can we take up the controversial 3 calendar? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the controversial calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 178, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1298, an act 8 to amend the Real Property Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Lack, and explanation has been asked for by 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. This bill was passed last year in 14 both houses and was vetoed by Governor Cuomo. 15 In Governor Cuomo's veto message, he said the 16 goals of the bill were laudable but it would be 17 a fiscal impact upon the localities. Now the 18 reason for that was that mortgage rates were low 19 last year when this bill was vetoed. There was 20 a lot of refinancing going on, and there would 21 have been an immediate impact; but times have 22 changed, of course, and in the last year, 23 mortgage rates have gone up, and there's 4524 1 virtually little or no refinancing going on now 2 at this time, so this is a good time in order to 3 change a law that should have been changed a 4 long time ago and will have very little fiscal 5 impact upon localities because they can't be 6 budgeting very much for refinancings that are 7 not happening. 8 What this bill would do, simply, 9 is to say that if you have a mortgage -- let's 10 say it's an outstanding amount of $100,000. The 11 price of your home has appreciated, and you want 12 to refinance that mortgage for $120,000, and you 13 go to the lender and you get a $120,000 mortgage 14 but only 20,000 of that is new money, but you 15 pay a New York State mortgage tax not on the 16 20,000 of new money in the refinancing; you pay 17 another whole mortgage tax on the whole 18 $120,000, including the 100,000 that you already 19 paid a mortgage tax on. 20 This bill would say there can be 21 an assignment of the old mortgage for mortgage 22 tax purposes and you don't pay a tax on anything 23 but the new money; and since there are virtually 4525 1 no refinancings going on now, there would be a 2 very little fiscal hit upon localities. 3 I certainly think we should pass 4 this bill again. I hope that the Assembly will, 5 where Assemblyman Feldman is sponsoring it and 6 is certainly trying to get it repassed, and we 7 send it down to the Governor and get it signed 8 and stop this double taxation on real property 9 holders in New York State. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 11 recognizes Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 13 President. I notice that this bill takes effect 14 30 days after its passage; and so if Senator 15 Lack would yield for a question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Lack, do you yield for a question to Senator 18 Paterson? 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Then, my 21 question, Senator Lack is, that by the time this 22 bill would become law, wouldn't there actually 23 be a fiscal impact on this fiscal year? 4526 1 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 2 Senator, there will not be a fiscal impact 3 because there are virtually no refinancings 4 going on now because interest rates are so high, 5 so any jurisdiction that has budgeted funds 6 based on increased refinancing so that they 7 would get that money -- you only refinance if 8 you are going to get a more favorable rate. 9 With rates high, there's no refinancing really 10 to take place; therefore, localities aren't 11 receiving the benefits from the extra 12 refinancing tax, so this is the perfect year in 13 which to pass it. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 And that is probably very 17 accurate based on the current rate of interest, 18 and yet the reason that the former governor 19 vetoed this bill last year related to a fiscal 20 impact that existed at that particular time. 21 The latest statistics that I have are that in 22 1992, $414 million were raised in revenues 23 collected through this source. 4527 1 If Senator Lack would yield for 2 another question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Lack, do you yield for a question? 5 SENATOR LACK: Surely. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Lack 9 with the fluctuating rate of interest, if we 10 pass this law and we have a circumstance that 11 comes into effect, say, starting next year that 12 is equal to 1992, aren't we going to be in the 13 exact same financial situation that caused the 14 Governor to veto this bill last year? 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. Senator, you've just put your finger 17 on, obviously, the very problem that exists 18 here. This is quicksand financing. It depends 19 on the vagaries of the current financial 20 market. Since there is no refinancing going on 21 now, localities aren't receiving money under 22 this; yet, they are still functioning; and 23 neither do localities know today any more than 4528 1 we do whether or not next year, two years from 2 now or four years from now there is going to be 3 a favorable refinancing market such as they 4 would be receiving income under this. 5 This is hardly steady, 6 dependable financing, which is why this is the 7 perfect time, when there can't be monies 8 impacted upon local budgets, to get rid of this 9 once and for all. It's not money that 10 localities should depend on because it does 11 depends on iffy conditions in the mortgage 12 refinancing markets which may or may not happen. 13 Neither you, I or anybody else in this chamber 14 knows when the next time it's going to happen. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. 19 Senator Lack certainly does 20 identify a situation where, in a sense, the 21 local governments are depending on what would be 22 a false economy, if I'm getting what Senator 23 Lack is saying correctly, and then to actually 4529 1 depend on that would not be fiscally feasible 2 when one considers the fact that as it is right 3 now with the high interest rates, there really 4 isn't much refinancing and, therefore, there 5 aren't many monies received in mortgage 6 recording taxes. 7 However, Mr. President, with the 8 high rate of property tax that individuals and 9 counties are experiencing all over our nation, 10 we recommend that, unfortunately, what may be 11 happening is that, in assessing what the taxes 12 are going to be, the government is taking a 13 circumstance that exists right now and 14 estimating into the future that there will not 15 be the local fiscal impact that governments are 16 feeling in the counties around our state. 17 I would just suggest on the bill, 18 Mr. President, that that impact is greater than 19 is reflected in the notion of this bill. 20 Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4530 1 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Secretary will continue to call 9 the controversial calendar. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 363, by Senator Marchi, Senate Bill Number 3781, 12 an act to incorporate the city of Staten Island 13 to enact a charter for the city of Staten Island 14 to provide a period of transition prior to 15 establishing the city of Staten Island. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 17 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we now return 20 to regular order, Mr. President, and take up 21 Calendar Number 363? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 23 called Calendar Number 363, Senator Bruno. I 4531 1 have been notified by the desk there is a 2 message of appropriation at the desk. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we adopt that 4 message at this time, Mr. President? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 motion is to accept the message of 7 appropriation. All those in favor, signify by 8 saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The message as adopted. 13 Senator Marchi, an explanation 14 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Fair enough. 16 Mr. President. It's with 17 considerable emotion that I rise to speak on 18 this bill. It's been 13 years arriving here in 19 a completed form that I felt deserved and 20 merited the consideration of the Senate. 21 We started in 1982 when the 22 American Civil Liberties Union, three members, 23 had questioned the constitutionality of the 4532 1 Board of Estimate in the city of New York; and 2 comparisons were drawn between Staten Island and 3 Kings County, where there was a differential of 4 6 to 1 in population and, of course, as you 5 know, there was a differential with all of the 6 counties. The Bronx, for instance, was 50 7 percent of the County of Kings. 8 This immediately plunged us into 9 litigation that went into the Federal Courts. I 10 joined as an amicus with the mayor of the city 11 of New York in defending and attempting to 12 preserve the Board of Estimate, considering it's 13 so essential to that modicum of self-governance 14 for a meaningful voice in participation in the 15 governance of this city that was so necessary; 16 and we labored hard and diligently on that - 17 it went back and forth between the federal 18 levels -- and filed many briefs and affidavits 19 right up from the Circuit -- from the Trial 20 District Court to the Circuit Court of Appeals 21 and the Supreme Court of the United States. 22 I took two steps at that time in 23 the event that adversity might befall us, 4533 1 because I really wanted to keep this city 2 together and I felt that we had a medium and a 3 means of affecting self-governance; and, number 4 one, I joined as an amicus, as I said; and, 5 number two, I asked the Senate Finance 6 Committee, fiscal committee and legal -- and the 7 legal arm of the Senate Finance Committee under 8 the direction of Abraham Lackman, who is still 9 with us today. I might add that also 10 participating in it at that time was Mark Shaw; 11 and they reported back after a meaningful study 12 that, indeed, it was feasible. 13 Knowing that, in 1984, I 14 introduced a bill, and my co-sponsor at that 15 time was Martin Connor, who argued well and 16 persuasively and was a valuable collaborative 17 agent and partner in this effort to at least 18 establish the question of secession, but we did 19 not -- we did not move the bill. The bill 20 stayed in committee because I thought we would 21 prevail; and the bill was repeatedly introduced, 22 1985, 1986, 1987, with considerable effort going 23 into the briefs and affidavits at all three 4534 1 levels of the Federal Court system. 2 Finally, in 1989 -- this is seven 3 years later, the Supreme Court of the United 4 States said that it was unconstitutional, that 5 it did violate the "one person one vote", "one 6 man one vote" principle of law; and as a result, 7 with the destruction of the Board of Estimate, 8 we were left, out of 51 members of the City 9 Council, with two and a fraction councilmen. 10 This was a very serious setback, and it was at 11 that time that I moved the bill. 12 The bill passed and as the result 13 of Chapter 773 of 1989 and reinforced by Chapter 14 17 of the Laws of 1990, a methodology and system 15 for proceeding on this question was described by 16 the Legislature, by two different sessions of 17 the Legislature, laying down the tracks which 18 provided, one, for a referendum with the people 19 on the question whether the people of Staten 20 Island wanted this study to go forward and some 21 82 percent said yes; and, then, the creation of 22 a commission, a 13-person commission that 23 included the members of the Legislature who 4535 1 represented all or part of Staten Island. At 2 the present time, Senator DiCarlo is my 3 co-sponsor on this measure. 4 And, having laid out that 5 methodology, a study commission was authorized 6 by the referendum, and we put together a first 7 class team to study the issue thoroughly, from 8 all and every aspect. The Executive Director is 9 at my right here, Dr. Joseph Viteritti, whom 10 some of you may know and who holds a very 11 prestigious position in the Robert Wagner School 12 of Public Administration in New York University, 13 joined by excellent people, people like Dick 14 Netzer, people like Briffault from Columbia, 15 Hugh O'Neill, economist. There was a very 16 serious study. It was not a move by press 17 release or dumping on anybody but an attempt to 18 formulate in response to what the Legislature 19 had requested us to do for the basic 20 consideration of this bill. 21 The membership was excellent, 22 bipartisan. We had -- it alternated between 23 three Democrats and two Republicans and then 4536 1 three Republicans and two Democrats. At the 2 present time, my co-sponsors in the Assembly are 3 Mrs. Connelly, who is a Democrat; Eric 4 Vitaliano, who is a Democrat; and Bob Straniere, 5 who is a Republican. 6 In moving ahead, I might add at 7 this point that we had very generous input, 8 because the Governor and the Speaker and the 9 Majority Leader, various people, had an input 10 into fleshing out the membership of that 11 commission. Speaker Miller designated the 12 associate for -- as his choice to sit on the 13 commission and who had a very large voice in 14 formulating policy with respect to public 15 employees and that was Martin Lubin, who 16 confessed that at the outset had some 17 philosophical differences but, nevertheless, he 18 attacked this problem very seriously so that the 19 matter proceeded with full attention and care. 20 Martin Lubin is the Associate Director of 21 Council 37, and many of you may know him. 22 In November 1993, the voters 23 approved the charter, when it was finally 4537 1 submitted, by a 65 percent vote; and, in 1994, 2 we sponsored a bill, but it was provisional and 3 it was not in final form; and in March of this 4 year, all five of the Staten Island legislators, 5 four who are residents, and Senator DiCarlo, who 6 represents a piece of Staten Island - 7 Now, what does the bill do? The 8 bill establishes a city of Staten Island, a new 9 city which would be the second largest city in 10 the State of New York, larger than any city in 11 New England except Boston, larger than any city 12 in New Jersey, larger than any city in Florida, 13 larger than Pittsburgh, 400,000 people who 14 accepted the burden that has been placed on us 15 to -- and properly so -- to carry forth the 16 message of secession. 17 It provides for a strong mayor 18 city council type of government. It establishes 19 a basic Administrative Code of the City of New 20 York, and it incorporates Title 11 of the New 21 York City Administrative Code, which outlines 22 all of the revenue raising measures including 23 income tax, including real estate tax and all 4538 1 the other taxes that are in the present revenue 2 code of the City of New York, all incorporated 3 into this bill. 4 The bill also created an 5 independent school district which provides for 6 the continued school district, and I might, at 7 this point, point out that to effect meaningful 8 participation by the full population of Staten 9 Island -- and I'm very aware and solicitous of 10 the presence -- the necessary and indispensable 11 presence of minorities on the school board -- we 12 provided for cumulative voting. I exchanged 13 considerable correspondence with Lanny Guinier 14 and we already -- we have existed on our board 15 with full participation, but we carried it a 16 step further and I think we guaranteed it by 17 taking this step. 18 And then it establishes an 18 19 month period of transition and during these 18 20 months, the officials of Staten Island along 21 with the officials of the City of New York would 22 address the problem of the transfer of municipal 23 employees, and I can tell you, under the - 4539 1 certainly the wise counsel of Martin Lubin, 2 these public employees are adequately and 3 completely protected, so that we have also -- we 4 provide collective bargaining -- for collective 5 bargaining agreements and pension rights, the 6 apportionment of assets and debts through New 7 York City and Staten Island, and we apportioned 8 the debt on the basis of the assessed valuation 9 of property, the property that is located in 10 Staten Island and the property that's located in 11 the other four boroughs. 12 The charter sets up a procedure 13 involving the controllers and mayors of both 14 cities. If needed, they can also go to the 15 Third Department, which is the situs for issues 16 of this nature on the question of the 17 apportionment of debt and obligations and 18 determination how property should be allocated. 19 There is a joint and severable liability that 20 attaches to Staten Island for that portion that 21 is represented by Staten Island. 22 So we have done everything. We 23 have done everything in good faith. It was laid 4540 1 out by the Legislature, "Do this," and we in 2 good faith followed it completely; and that is 3 why the bill is before you today, the product of 4 very, very hard work, aided so materially and so 5 well by Dr. Viteritti and the members of the 6 staff. 7 We had over 50 meetings of the 8 secession commission. We had over 13 public 9 hearings. There wasn't a stone left unturned in 10 honoring the obligation that we felt was a moral 11 one if we were to establish our good faith in 12 coming back to the Legislature and saying we 13 have done what you have requested us to do. 14 Now, it's your turn to join us. 15 I would quote from the message of 16 Governor Cuomo at the time in 1989, when he 17 discussed this, "A recent decision by the 18 Supreme Court of the United States dramatically 19 changed Staten Island's participation in city 20 governance, reducing its equal vote on the Board 21 of Estimate to a relatively small participation 22 in a new city legislative body. That changed 23 circumstance, added to a long list of 4541 1 grievances..." and so forth, and that's when he 2 signed the legislation, the basic legislation 3 that formed it. 4 His successor, Governor Pataki, 5 has indicated that he would sign the bill when 6 it came to him and has given his full and 7 unqualified support and, also, as was recited 8 earlier, a message on the apportionment -- the 9 certification that was previously cited by 10 Senator Bruno. 11 So, we go back. This is a rather 12 meaningful time that we are considering this 13 bill. We are on the eve of Passover. This is 14 not an exodus, but it is an exodus in the sense 15 that we want to be good neighbors and a city in 16 this constellation of communities that make up 17 the Greater New York area. So in the spirit of 18 this solemn season, I earnestly implore you to 19 let my people go. Let my people go, not to 20 disappear, not to be collaborative friends and 21 meaningful friends in this great community but 22 to give us an opportunity which is unavailable 23 to us under the present formulation for self 4542 1 governance. 2 So I would hope that you give 3 this earnest consideration and response in your 4 vote. I might point out that on the prior 5 occasions, we had very full support in this 6 house. We had one vote -- one dissenting vote 7 at that time on the two occasions that this body 8 pronounced itself on the issue, only one vote. 9 Now, we know that under the old Jewish law, 10 unless you had one vote, it didn't count, 11 because maybe something was missed. 12 So I don't think we have missed 13 any of the vitals, and I earnestly request 14 justice for the 400,000 people that make up my 15 community. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 19 Can we at this time read the last section. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 4543 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Would you 7 recognize Senator Gold. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Gold, how do you vote? 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, thank you. 11 The Majority Leader said I could explain my vote 12 for at least a half hour, so I - 13 I vote in the negative so that 14 you got at least the one, Senator Marchi, to 15 keep you honest. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold in the negative. Roll call is withdrawn. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Please call on 19 Senator Trunzo. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 21 recognizes Senator Trunzo. How do you vote? 22 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4544 1 Trunzo in the affirmative. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: And Senator 3 Nozzolio. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Nozzolio, how do you vote? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I vote aye. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Nozzolio in the affirmative. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr. 10 President, can we withdraw the roll call - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Roll call 12 is withdrawn. 13 SENATOR BRUNO: -- and resume the 14 debate? 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 17 debate. Chair recognizes -- Senator Paterson 18 had the floor. Senator Paterson to resume 19 debate. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. I wanted to wait and allow Senator 22 Marchi to explain this bill before I raised this 23 issue because, as he pointed out, this is really 4545 1 the fruition of 13 years' worth of work and a 2 great deal of effort, actually 13 hearings and 3 50 different procedures. 4 As you could glean from the 5 discussion, Mr. President, he has put a 6 tremendous amount of effort into this, and we 7 certainly appreciate his work, and I wanted the 8 issue to be heard today, but I would like to 9 raise a procedural point before we go forward. 10 We accepted a message of 11 necessity from the Governor prior to moving this 12 bill; and being that it is a message of 13 necessity for an item of appropriation, I just 14 want to be clear that as an item of 15 appropriation in which a local government is 16 going to receive an appropriation that the bill 17 can only pass this house by a two-thirds vote. 18 SENATOR MARCHI: Are you 19 formulating a question, Senator? 20 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm raising a 21 point of order, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On your 23 point of order, Senator Paterson, the chair, 4546 1 having been previously informed that you were 2 going to do this, has had the opportunity to do 3 a little research, and I have reviewed the rules 4 of the chamber and also I have looked at the 5 Constitution of the State of New York; and in 6 looking at that, I find that Article 9, Section 7 2(A), gives the Legislature plenary power to 8 create local governments. 9 So as to whether or not this is a 10 local purpose or a state purpose, it would be 11 the ruling of this chair that this is a state 12 purpose and, therefore, would only require a 13 majority vote for approval, not a two-thirds 14 vote. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Wise as that 19 ruling may be, I'm really more impressed by the 20 fact that you knew what I was going to do before 21 I did it. 22 (Laughter.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's the 4547 1 visionary power of the chair, Senator Paterson. 2 (Laughter.) 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Mr. 4 President, I suggest that if there is any 5 visionary contest between you and me, that you 6 will win. 7 What I would like to raise, Mr. 8 President, is the fact that Article 9, Section 9 2, as you referred to, is of course something I 10 had a feeling you might do that; and so the real 11 thrust of this legislation, if we are clear on 12 this -- and as an example, just to cite a piece 13 of a part of the legislation, the part that 14 relates to what will happen with the CUNY 15 schools that are in Staten Island. They will - 16 at that point, all of their assets will be 17 transferred to SUNY, to the State University; 18 and at the point that they are transferred, now, 19 the bill doesn't totally say although I think 20 it's clear that the debt will be transferred, 21 certainly the debt that's incurred in the 22 transfer will actually be reflected in the debt 23 that SUNY owes; and so as an example of that, 4548 1 the fact that we're taking on that debt, the 2 fact that we're actually making this 3 appropriation, I don't see how we can consider 4 that to be a state action when the real 5 beneficiary in this case would be the new local 6 government of the Staten Island. 7 So I am saying that the rules of 8 the Constitution -- in other words, you have 9 cited a correct ruling of the Constitution if it 10 were in that particular area, but I'm saying 11 that we're in the area that relates specifically 12 to local appropriations. 13 And, therefore, as an appeal to 14 the ruling of the chair, I would just like to 15 point out that I think that the real spirit of 16 the Constitution is speaking to this case; 17 because if you were right, Mr. President, then 18 you have actually nullified the whole section 19 related to what would be the two-thirds vote. 20 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President. 21 May I be heard? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Marchi, as I understand it, Senator Paterson has 4549 1 appealed the ruling of the chair. I don't 2 believe that is a debatable issue, and so what 3 we're going to do is take a vote on the ruling 4 of the chair. 5 So what we will do at this time 6 is that all those people who are in favor of 7 sustaining the ruling of the chair, signify by 8 saying. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Those who are wishing to overrule 11 the ruling of the chair, signify by saying nay. 12 (Response of "Nay.") 13 Senator Paterson, this is another 14 one you lost. The ruling of the chair is 15 sustained. 16 The chair would recognize Senator 17 Paterson on the bill. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 19 President, and you know you, can't lose all the 20 time and one of these days I'm going to prove 21 that that's true. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 14 23 and counting, Senator Paterson. You have about 4550 1 28 to go. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 on the actual bill. I would just like to point 4 out that I have not indicated how I'm actually 5 voting on the bill, and I just want to say to 6 those who are in support of the bill that this 7 kind of a ruling may really be more of a 8 detriment than an advantage, because those who 9 are opposed, in my opinion, just have a legal 10 action. 11 Now, on the bill, if Senator 12 Marchi would yield to a couple questions? 13 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Senator. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 15 Marchi, as you know, New York City obtains its 16 water supply from Upstate New York, and my 17 question to you is, also, as apparently has been 18 researched, the residents of Staten Island would 19 inherit, in a sense, 4.2 percent of New York 20 City's debt; and so my question is, how do you 21 arrive at the figure for the amount of debt owed 22 by residents of Staten Island, and how do you 23 work out the issue of the water supply? Is 4551 1 Staten Island in that case going to have to work 2 out its own arrangement with the Upstate 3 region? 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, 5 depending on how one wishes to proceed on the 6 question of division and allocation, that which 7 is -- we are not claiming any right or a 8 percentage allocation of anything that - 9 everything that the city -- the remaining four 10 boroughs and whatever property they may have. 11 We're not questioning that, so that I don't 12 think this is involved. 13 It will be the subject of 14 negotiations between the mayors and controllers 15 of the two cities; and in the event of a 16 dispute, they have access to the Third 17 Department -- Third Judicial Department of the 18 State of New York to have the matter 19 adjudicated, so I don't think that that presents 20 a - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: What I'm 4552 1 really getting at, Senator Marchi, is that in 2 legislation going back to 1904, New York City is 3 entitled to own a lot of that property. Now 4 that Staten Island is seceding from New York 5 City, are you saying Staten Island should still 6 have its share because they were part of the 7 original agreement? 8 What I'm saying is, if you 9 actually secede from a greater entity, how do 10 you come back and say that you have the same 11 rights that the entity had when, in fact, you 12 want to secede from it? 13 In other words, I'm just trying 14 to figure out where Staten Island is going to 15 get their water from. Are they going to pay for 16 their own, or are they saying that the same - 17 in other words, you just take that percentage of 18 the financial arrangement between New York State 19 and the regions where the watersheds are and 20 then you apportion it equally or proportion it 21 proportionally? 22 I am just trying to figure out 23 how Staten Island is going to get its water. 4553 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Staten Island, 2 Senator, will be liable for the cost. There are 3 communities outside of the City of New York that 4 share in the water supply, in Westchester -- I 5 don't know where else, but they do share in the 6 water supply. Certainly, we would go on paying 7 for that water. I don't think there is a 8 discriminatory pattern in the sale of that water 9 in any of the constituency that New York City 10 has when it receives the water. 11 So I don't see where there is a 12 problem here. We don't make any claim that we 13 own any part of that. What is on Staten Island 14 remains on Staten Island, whatever assets, real 15 or otherwise, remain on Staten Island, belongs 16 to Staten Island. Whatever is in the four 17 boroughs and whatever the City of New York 18 presently owns, we make no claim to that. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 would recognize Senator DiCarlo. 21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. It's indeed a pleasure to rise this 23 day to first recognize and thank somebody who I 4554 1 believe will go down in history as the father of 2 the city of Staten Island. Let there be no 3 mistake that this is not something that was 4 arrived at haphazardly or quickly. This was a 5 long, long process; and I'm very proud of the 6 fact that I was permitted to be on the committee 7 with the Senator. 8 This is the bill. This is a lot 9 of hard, hard work that has gone into this. 10 This is something that I'm very proud that this 11 body is taking up. The issue of secession and 12 the city of Staten Island is something that I'm 13 in a peculiar position. I represent two 14 counties in New York State, two boroughs in the 15 present City of New York, one being the county 16 of Kings otherwise known as Brooklyn; the other 17 Richmond, known as Staten Island. 18 I am four-square solidly behind 19 the city of Staten Island, and I look forward to 20 the day as a State Senator that I can represent 21 the great City of New York and also the great 22 city of Staten Island. 23 This is an issue that has been 4555 1 with us throughout our existence as Americans, 2 and it was put properly when it was unanimously 3 adopted, our forefathers on July 4, 1776, and 4 this also speaks to Staten Island: 5 "When in the course of human 6 events, it becomes necessary for one people to 7 dissolve the political bands which have 8 connected them with another and to assume among 9 the powers of the Earth the separate and equal 10 station to which the laws of Nature and Nature's 11 God entitled them, a decent respect to the 12 opinions of mankind requires that they should 13 declare the causes which impel them to 14 separation." 15 Well, those causes were put very 16 well put by Senator Marchi. When the Board of 17 Estimate of the City of New York was ruled 18 unconstitutional, the people of Staten Island 19 lost their power and their vote in the operation 20 of that greater city. Senator Marchi has taken 21 many, many years to put forward his bill on 22 secession. 23 A brief chronology of the 4556 1 events: 1982, Board of Estimate case was 2 brought. 1989, the Supreme Court ruled the 3 Board of Estimate unconstitutional. 1990, both 4 houses, the Senate and the Assembly, passed 5 Chapters 773 and 17 authorizing the formal 6 process for Staten Island separation, and the 7 Governor signed the bill. 1990, the voters 8 approved on a referendum a study of secession 9 with 81 percent of the vote. In November of 10 1993, with 65 percent of the vote, the people of 11 Staten Island approved the charter, again, with 12 65 percent of the vote. 13 One of the issues that has been 14 raised, and we talk about politics and 15 politicians, but something that bothers me more 16 than anything is the fact that the people of 17 Staten Island who I represent did it the right 18 way. They did everything and Senator Marchi did 19 everything according to the law and according to 20 the way that people who understand government 21 said they should do it. Republicans and 22 Democrats, Upstaters and Downstaters, New York 23 City politicians and Upstate politicians went 4557 1 along with this process. 2 To date the taxpayers of the 3 State of New York because they agreed to it have 4 spent $1.5 million in the legal separation, the 5 process to separate and become its own entity, 6 the city of Staten Island. $1.5 million, the 7 politicians in Albany allowed that money to be 8 spent. 9 This year we have an 10 appropriation in the budget, I believe, for half 11 a million dollars to continue this process. 12 So what happened? The 13 politicians in Albany said, "Okay, Staten 14 Island, we don't believe you're ever going to do 15 it, but we're saying you have the legal right to 16 do so, and here's the process," and the people 17 of Staten Island lived within that process, and 18 they went through the long, arduous task toward 19 secession, towards independence, and all the 20 politicians in Albany said, "You have the legal 21 right to do it." The Assembly said it 22 overwhelmingly. This body said it 23 overwhelmingly. The Governor of the state at 4558 1 the time, Governor Cuomo, in his message said, 2 "The Legislature has decided overwhelmingly on 3 both sides of the aisle and in both houses that 4 the people of Staten Island should have the 5 opportunity to vote on the question of whether 6 they should be allowed to create a new and 7 separate city. It appears to be universally 8 accepted that they are justified in wanting to 9 consider separation from the City of New York. 10 They have been part of the city since 1898, but 11 a recent decision by the Supreme Court of the 12 United States dramatically changed Staten 13 Island's participation in city governance 14 reducing its equal vote on the board of estimate 15 to a relatively small participation in a new 16 city legislative body. That changed 17 circumstance, added to a long list of grievances 18 by the people of the island over the years, 19 moved the Legislature to adopt this bill." 20 So our constituents on Staten 21 Island followed what they were told by the 22 politicians up here in Albany to do. I'm very 23 proud of the fact that this body and this 4559 1 leadership has allowed this bill to come to the 2 floor for a final vote, because this is what all 3 of the politicians said Staten Island had to do 4 in order to gain its independence. 5 Then lo and behold, we now find 6 that the same politicians in the other chamber 7 who were part of spending $1.5 million to study 8 secession and now saying -- and after they voted 9 for it, are now saying, "Well, you know, people 10 of Staten Island, we were only kidding. We 11 never intended for you to have the ability to 12 secede. We spent a million and a half dollars 13 and we knew we'd never let you secede." 14 It is an absolute disgrace. 15 Absolute disgrace. 16 New York State Court of Appeals, 17 1938, to change the boundaries of the City of 18 New York either by contraction or expansion 19 touches it in its government and in the 20 property, using the word property in its widest 21 sense, as associated with jurisdiction; yet we 22 held in the City of New York versus the Village 23 of Lawrence, 250 New York 429, that a change of 4560 1 boundary by the Legislature was not a law coming 2 within the home rule provision. 1913, for those 3 from the Bronx, when the Bronx wanted to 4 separate from New York County, otherwise known 5 as Manhattan, Court of Appeals, "The question 6 whether a county or township shall be divided 7 and a new one formed or two townships or school 8 districts formally one be reunited is always a 9 question which may be properly referred to the 10 voters of the municipality for decision." 11 The people of Staten Island under 12 the guidance of Senator Marchi have done 13 everything that the politicians in Albany 14 required of them. It is a cruel joke for now 15 the other house to say, "Well, we were only 16 kidding. We voted for you to have a 17 referendum. We voted to allow you to decide 18 your future. We voted this money to be spent 19 for the process, but you know what? We were 20 only kidding." 21 Now, after the people of Staten 22 Island have overwhelmingly voted for their 23 freedom for their own city of Staten Island, now 4561 1 we have one body of this Legislature saying, 2 "You know what? It was all nothing but a joke." 3 It's not a joke. The history 4 books will be written, and the history books 5 will say that John Marchi was the father of 6 Staten Island. Mark my words. It might not 7 happen now. It might not happen this year, but 8 the city of Staten Island will be, and John 9 Marchi will be credited with that, and I am very 10 proud to be a co-sponsor of this bill with 11 Senator Marchi. 12 It's what we were sent to Albany 13 to do, to fulfill the wishes of our 14 constituents. Now, I am a very proud resident 15 of the county of Kings, the Borough of Brooklyn 16 and I'm very proud of my City of New York, but 17 I'm also very proud that the people of Staten 18 Island have voted to be their own, and I'm going 19 to be very proud to represent two cities, the 20 City of New York and the city of Staten Island. 21 I'm very proud of this bill. I 22 vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4562 1 recognizes Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 3 Can we suspend the debate and call the last 4 section. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Would you 13 recognize Senator Holland. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Holland, how do you vote? 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: I vote yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Holland will be recorded in the affirmative. 19 Senator Maziarz. 20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I vote yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative. 4563 1 Senator DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I be 3 permitted to vote in the affirmative? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 DeFrancisco in the affirmative. 6 Senator Nanula. 7 SENATOR NANULA: I would like to 8 be recorded in the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Nanula in the negative. 11 Senator Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Withdraw the 13 roll call. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Roll call 15 is withdrawn. 16 Resume debate on Calendar Number 17 363. The chair recognizes Senator Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 Mr. President. I had the 21 distinct privilege for ten years to represent 22 part of Staten Island, and I recognize that 23 Senator DiCarlo has only represented Staten 4564 1 Island now for some, I guess, two years. 2 I do -- and I know Senator Marchi 3 will back me up on this. Reading the 4 Declaration of Independence with respect to 5 Staten Island is a very poor analogy, since it's 6 a well-known historical fact on and off Staten 7 Island that the residents of Staten Island 8 remained loyal to King George to the very last, 9 opposed the Declaration of Independence and 10 supported the Tories and the British throughout 11 the Revolution. Indeed, I believe the last 12 British presence in the United States was on 13 Staten Island, and the residents of Staten 14 Island wept bitter tears on evacuation day when 15 the last British troops withdrew several years 16 after the surrender at Yorktown, so - 17 But I encourage Senator DiCarlo, 18 as he represents in the coming years, if he 19 represents in the coming years, part of Staten 20 Island, to dig into the history of that 21 wonderful Island and get the facts down, but the 22 Declaration of I Independence and Staten Island 23 is a bad mix. 4565 1 As Senator Marchi pointed out, I 2 did co-sponsor the legislation to study the 3 question of secession. Indeed, I served for, I 4 guess, three years on the commission, was 5 replaced by Senator Mega and Senator DiCarlo 6 replaced him. I believe I still have an 7 appointee of mine who is a member of the 8 commission, so that I am well acquainted with 9 the issue, well acquainted, really, with the 10 painstaking and very professional efforts of the 11 commission and its staff, and, indeed, it is a 12 first rate staff, and they did study all the 13 issue. 14 But, Mr. President, today I stand 15 before you an older and wiser Senator Martin 16 Connor, one who since leaving Staten Island some 17 three years ago have had time to reflect, look 18 back. I guess I've just become more 19 conservative, as I'm sure many of you have 20 noticed in this house in the last few years, and 21 really don't think that the separation of Staten 22 Island from the City of New York today is, one, 23 a wise and fair course for all the residents of 4566 1 New York City, and I also have come to be 2 convinced by the Speaker's cogent arguments 3 regarding the home rule provisions of our 4 constitution that, in fact, this action, this 5 separation under the circumstances -- you know, 6 this is not like other little boundary 7 adjustments that have occurred before. This is 8 a major step regarding the major city in this 9 nation, certainly in the state, and I do believe 10 it does intimately affect the rights and the 11 property of the City of New York such that, in 12 reality, I think the proponents are addressing 13 the wrong court when they come before the 14 Legislature. 15 I'm not talking about the 16 Legislature's ultimate powers in this regard, 17 but I do think they ought to make their case in 18 the City Council first. They ought to get a 19 home rule message from the local legislative 20 body. I think that's the way to go. 21 Frankly, Mr. President -- and I 22 know there is no easy way to do this because it 23 has been a marriage of nearly 100 years, but the 4567 1 reality is when that marriage occurred Staten 2 Island was quite largely rural. Indeed, today, 3 it has wonderful wetlands and hiking trails and 4 golf courses and green belt; but in those days, 5 back at the creation of greater New York in 6 1898, it was indeed rural, farming, very, very 7 sparsely populated; and the resulting City of 8 New York invested in infrastructure far in 9 disproportion to either the population of Staten 10 Island or the value of its ratables; and to 11 divine now a formula that Staten Island will 12 assume the city's debt in proportion to its 13 property tax ratables is just not a fair thing 14 to do. 15 Things like water tunnels, 16 schools, other infrastructure, were created and 17 paid for by the City of New York on behalf of 18 all of its residents far into disproportion to 19 Staten Island's share of the property tax burden 20 or, indeed, the value of the taxable property. 21 I won't argue -- and I believe that means that 22 the rest of the City of New York, the taxpayers 23 of the City of New York, in effect, would be 4568 1 making an enormous contribution to this new city 2 such that they ought to really have their local 3 legislative body on their behalf state that they 4 are willing to make this gift. 5 And, secondly, I think -- but 6 it's not really for us to say -- that if you 7 look at the ratable situation in Staten Island, 8 there will be very substantial local property 9 tax increases in this new city of Staten 10 Island. Why I say it's perhaps not for us to 11 make, the residents have, indeed, spoken at the 12 ballot on that; and if they are willing to 13 assume that kind of burden, while I'm concerned 14 about it -- and I'm concerned about, frankly, 15 the creation of a whole new bureaucracy, a very 16 expensive governmental bureaucracy which any 17 city would have and this city would have, I 18 think that's within the province of the 19 residence of Staten Island to speak to. I think 20 the question of assumption of debt, division of 21 assets, is really one that does concern quite 22 directly the property of a local government, the 23 City of New York, and their ought to be a home 4569 1 rule statement on that. 2 Absent that, absent any word from 3 the Mayor of the City of New York -- this issue 4 has been going on over three mayors now. We 5 always heard from Mayor Koch and Mayor Dinkins, 6 and the silence is deafening coming from Gracie 7 Mansion. But I think in the absence of that 8 kind of guidance, in the absence of the Mayor 9 rising to his responsibilities to let us know 10 what he thinks, that we are compelled to make 11 our own judgment, and my judgment, as an older 12 wiser legislator than perhaps I was a few years 13 ago -- although the position, I would note, is 14 not inconsistent. I think it was fair to study 15 such an important issue. The study is in. The 16 results are in, and I'm not convinced; 17 therefore, I do intend to vote no on this, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 recognizes Senator Waldon on the bill. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. President. 23 Would the erudite Senator from 4570 1 Richmond yield to a question or two? 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Marchi yields. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 7 much, Mr. President. 8 Senator Marchi, are you certain 9 that the people of Staten Island want you to go 10 forward with this legislation? 11 SENATOR MARCHI: Am I certain? 12 Yes. The vote was 65 percent. There was a 13 very, very heavy participation by the voters. 14 It wasn't a vote by a small segment of the 15 population. They voted, and they voted en 16 masse. I would say that the percentage would be 17 far higher. There were a number of people - 18 because it was a studied campaign at that time 19 that attempted to indicate the -- that their 20 property values, the homeowner would be paying 21 double and triple. They were comparing it to 22 assessed valuation in surrounding communities, 23 ignoring the fact that we would still carry an 4571 1 income tax. They were also frightening many of 2 the public employees, saying that they would be 3 sacrificed. They would be losing whatever -- so 4 that, that element that value attended to 5 attenuate. 6 If anything, 65 percent only 7 tells part of the story. With full knowledge, 8 the percentage is far higher, but the 9 participation of the voter was almost exactly 10 the same as voting on candidates. You know, 11 sometimes these amendments and other questions 12 suffer because maybe you have 10, 15, 20 13 percent. This was a very, very heavy turnout 14 and very deeply felt. 15 I don't know, if you know people 16 in Staten Island, but I think that we'll all 17 attest to the fact that it was a very, very 18 sincere and genuine expression in volume on the 19 part of the public in Staten Island relying in 20 good faith, in good faith, on everything that 21 had been developed. 22 I know that Senator Connor 23 mentioned that things have changed and we see a 4572 1 lot of things. I'm saying we did everything 2 that was requested of us. There was a 3 Legislature -- I mean two different Legislatures 4 supplied the foundation for the study and 5 everything that we did, and we delivered 6 everything that was requested of us. 7 Now, how can we be that -- you 8 know, as Senator DiCarlo has said it very aptly, 9 I think, were we only kidding or we have some 10 different ideas. We have in good faith 11 complied. 12 We demand that there be a good 13 faith response, nothing more. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 15 Would the Senator yield again? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marchi, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 continues to yield. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, as a 22 result of your explanation just now, would I be 23 accurate in characterizing your sponsorship, 4573 1 your zeal, your commitment, as indicative that 2 you feel that it is your mandate from the people 3 of Staten Island, even if you personally felt 4 counter to this move to secede, but it is your 5 mandate from the people of Staten Island that 6 you move forward with the secession? 7 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, I would 8 not have invested as totally as I did for many 9 years. I mean I did an enormous amount of work 10 between 1989 and '90 when we formulated our 11 commission and then did the nuts and bolts work 12 of constructing this new city. But the work I 13 did in the Federal Courts attempting to keep the 14 city together, to at least give us the Board of 15 Estimate. I thought we had some very excellent 16 arguments. 17 Maybe I'm emotionally involved, 18 but I am very much involved; and when people 19 were saying, "Well, you're not serious?" or "You 20 don't think it has a chance?" we're here, you 21 know. Unless there was a commitment in good 22 faith in this, we wouldn't be here discussing 23 this issue. 4574 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 2 much, Senator Marchi. 3 Mr. President. On the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Waldon on the bill. 6 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate the 7 work, the effort of Senator Marchi. I think 8 those of you who have watched me in this chamber 9 over the course of the last few years recognize 10 that I really feel it is imperative to respect 11 the wishes of folk from various parts of the 12 state; therefore, when there is a home rule 13 message or when someone says, "My area needs 14 this," I don't think you will ever see -- or if 15 it has ever happened, it is extremely rare - 16 that I voted against the interests on a local 17 issue of one of our colleagues. 18 I respect what Senator Marchi has 19 done. I recognize the importance of following 20 the will of the people that you represent. I 21 wish we had more of that here. I wish that each 22 of us would always be as sensitive even if we 23 could not defer to the wishes of a particular 4575 1 constituency which is motivating a Senator to do 2 as he or she feels compelled to do. 3 I did not support this in the 4 past, but I am going to support it now. I have 5 become more educated about the issue. I have 6 become more sensitive to the issue. I recognize 7 that if the people of Staten Island really want 8 this, than who am I to interfere with the real 9 desire, the heartfelt expressions of the people 10 who reside there. 11 I have had some good times in 12 Staten Island, Senator Marchi. There is a place 13 called South Beach. When I was growing up in 14 the Sanctified Church, the Church of God and 15 Christ in Brooklyn Reverend Reading used to feel 16 it was good for the little kids to be able to go 17 to a beach in a good environment. He never took 18 us to Coney Island. He always took us to South 19 Beach. I remember playing as the captain of the 20 freshman team in City College. We went to Tote 21 Hill to play Wagner College, and the second best 22 game I had as the captain of that freshman team 23 was against Wagner. The best game was against 4576 1 Manhattan College when John Powers was the 2 captain of the freshman team and the high scorer 3 there, and I smoked in both of those games. 4 Smoked, Senator, means that I a very good game; 5 I scored a lot of points. I want you to 6 understand that. 7 The point I'm trying to make is 8 that on this issue at this time, I'm going to 9 recognize your wisdom. More importantly, I'm 10 going to recognize and appreciate your 11 commitment, that of Senator DiCarlo and Eric 12 Vitaliano and Bobby Straniere and Betty Connelly 13 whom I admire and respect in the Assembly. I 14 didn't hear the Mayor say it shouldn't be done. 15 He didn't write me. He didn't call me. So I 16 have to believe that somehow impliedly he is 17 going along with what you are offering here for 18 us to consider. 19 I think this is historic; and if 20 they say in future years, Moses Marchi was the 21 creator of the city of Staten Island, that's 22 fine, too. I will follow your lead this time; 23 and when it is appropriate a little later in 4577 1 this session to vote, I will support you, 2 Senator Marchi, and I will vote yes on this 3 bill. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 6 recognizes Senator LaValle. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. I certainly rise to support Senator 9 Marchi and have watched with great admiration 10 over the years the work that he has done on this 11 issue, but I think, even more importantly, the 12 people of Staten Island are so fortunate to have 13 his representation, not only on this issue but 14 each of the issues that come before this body 15 because Senator Marchi has shown his 16 steadfastness in pursuing this. He has been 17 methodical in the way he has approached the 18 secession for Staten Island; and as Senator 19 DiCarlo indicated by holding up the bill, the 20 depth and breath of the research and the work 21 that has been done is probably unprecedented on 22 a single piece of legislation such as this. 23 I, of course, have followed 4578 1 Senator Marchi's work because we have debated on 2 this floor on a few occasions the secession of 3 the five eastern towns in Suffolk County in what 4 we hope will some day become Peconic County, and 5 we have just finished the study on the economic 6 implications of whether it would be cost 7 effective for the five eastern towns to secede, 8 and it is not an easy -- there are many issues 9 that cannot be decided by even some of the best 10 consultants and some of the people talking about 11 these issues, and so there has to be debate and, 12 in some cases I'm afraid we could debate the 13 division of debt service and assets and 14 buildings infinitum without any exactness and 15 clear-cut what the implications are. We know 16 that, I think, after this first and very cursory 17 search for Peconic County. 18 But I can tell you that there is 19 no issue that I have been involved with back 20 home in Suffolk County that has brought about 21 more excitement in the people who have served on 22 committees exploring the implications of the 23 creation of a new county, and the involvement of 4579 1 these people. The issue goes to beyond dollars 2 and-cents representation and whether people will 3 be able to find what it is that moved them to 4 live in a particular place, the lifestyle, their 5 ability to be involved in the governmental 6 decisions. In Suffolk County and Peconic County 7 in a 18-body county legislature, the most the 8 five eastern towns will ever have are two votes 9 on a 18-member body; and so for the people to 10 follow their hopes, their dreams and their 11 aspirations, it will be very, very difficult to 12 have two county legislators in a 18-member 13 body. 14 And, so, Senator Marchi, you are 15 paving the way. The work that you are doing and 16 in some cases things that may be a leap of faith 17 because we don't have exact conclusions on what 18 will happen, many people throughout this state 19 and certainly the five eastern towns in Suffolk 20 County are following what you are doing. 21 The research we have done - 22 people talked about home rule messages. On this 23 floor when we debated the Peconic County 4580 1 legislation, our research showed that we in this 2 Legislature have the ability to create political 3 subdivisions such as was done in Bronx County 4 and in other areas; and what greater when we 5 talk about how do the people feel -- the 6 question was asked of Senator Marchi -- 65 7 percent of the people said aye. I don't think 8 you can find a more enthusiastic affirmation on 9 an issue to get 65 percent of the people. 10 So I think it's very clear what 11 the people of Staten Island are saying and how 12 they hope that they can find a governance system 13 that will allow them to find their hopes and 14 dreams and aspirations. 15 And so, Senator Marchi, I rise 16 with great enthusiasm today to support you in 17 this legislation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President. Will Senator Marchi yield to just 22 one question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4581 1 Marchi, do you yield to a question from Senator 2 Dollinger? 3 The Senator yields. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 5 apologize for perhaps not being better versed in 6 this, but one of the sections, 9, of this bill 7 would amend the County Law to provide for the 8 treatment of Richmond County to be similar to 9 that afforded the counties within cities with a 10 population of a million or more. Could you just 11 explain to me what the effect of that portion of 12 this is? 13 SENATOR MARCHI: The facilitation 14 of the status quo on taxation, on what are the 15 existing practices. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess the 17 substance of my question is, in a sense Richmond 18 County wants to be treated like it were part of 19 the city of New York even though it would be 20 its own city, because we've passed, as you know, 21 a whole bunch of laws, and I'm sure you're well 22 familiar with them, that only apply to 23 communities that have more than a million people 4582 1 in them. This is the New York City bills. 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. This is 3 solely generous, really, because every county in 4 the State of New York has cities. New York City 5 has counties within the city, and it's probably 6 a fuzzy difference where -- this kind of an 7 arrangement. I guess it's unique in the United 8 States, really. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's really 10 been designed to preserve the status quo, again, 11 through you, Mr. President. 12 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 14 President. On the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Dollinger on the bill. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have a 18 great deal of sympathy for Senator Marchi's 19 position, as well as the position articulated by 20 Senator LaValle. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Dollinger, may I interrupt? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will be 4583 1 glad to yield, Mr. President, as I see the 2 Deputy Majority Leader - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Could you have 6 the last section read for the purpose of Senator 7 Lack voting. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you 18 recognize Senator Lack. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Lack, how do you vote? 21 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Lack will be a recorded in the affirmative. 4584 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 2 Stafford. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Stafford, how do you vote? 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Stafford will be recorded in the affirmative. 8 Senator Stavisky, how do you 9 vote? 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative. 13 Senator Johnson, how do you 14 vote? 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Johnson will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Wright, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Wright. 22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4585 1 Wright will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 Senator Kruger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 4 President. Can I infer from this they think 5 I'll talk for some time? 6 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger, a lot of your colleagues apparently 9 are bailing out. 10 (Laughter.) 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm winding 12 up, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's 14 no offense intended, but - 15 Senator Kruger, how do you vote? 16 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Kruger in the negative. 19 Senator Babbush, how do you 20 vote? 21 SENATOR BABBUSH: No. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Babbush will be recorded in the negative. 4586 1 Roll call is withdrawn. Debate 2 continued. 3 Chair recognizes Senator 4 Dollinger to speak to the empty house. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will be 6 known as the Senator who cleared the house? 7 Mr. President. I have a great 8 deal of sympathy for the comments that were made 9 by Senator LaValle as well as Senator Marchi's 10 discussion about the relationship between Staten 11 Island and the Board of Estimate. 12 Unfortunately, from my 13 perspective, the comments made by Senator 14 LaValle with respect to the eastern portion of 15 Suffolk County and the comments made about 16 Staten Island could be true anywhere in this 17 state. I represent a city. It has 18 neighborhoods. It has well-defined 19 neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods could at any 20 time sit down and say, "We no longer want to be 21 a part of the city of Rochester and we would 22 love to be able to secede from the city of 23 Rochester." 4587 1 The two votes that Senator 2 LaValle talked about, the fact that the eastern 3 towns in Suffolk County may never have more than 4 two votes in the Suffolk County Legislature that 5 comment can be made about the Town of Brighton, 6 which I represent, which can argue that it only 7 has one vote in the Monroe County Legislature, 8 and as a consequence, it should seek to withdraw 9 from Monroe County and form its own county. Any 10 level of government that doesn't have a position 11 of control can say we're not being dealt with 12 fairly because we don't have enough 13 representation. 14 It seems to me that's not the 15 argument that we should be looking at. From my 16 point of view, in an era when what we ought to 17 be doing is consolidating governments and saving 18 money, what we run the risk of is fracturing 19 government, creating additional levels of 20 government. 21 I point out that I voted against 22 the creation of the Karais Joel School District 23 because I don't think we should be creating more 4588 1 school districts. I'm going to vote against the 2 creation of a city of Staten Island because I 3 don't think we ought to be creating more 4 cities. I think we ought to be looking at 5 consolidation as a way to solve the problem. 6 I understand the sentiments of 7 the people of Staten Island. I understand the 8 strength of those sentiments. I understand how 9 the Board of Estimates may have given them 10 expectations about their role in the City of New 11 York, but my view is the "one man one vote" 12 principle is the right principle. It's the 13 right idea, it brings us together, brings us 14 together with proportional strength based on our 15 numbers and based on the changes that occur in 16 this country, and I think we do a disservice 17 when we fracture our governments further. 18 And the notion that somehow 19 Staten Island has a special position, I 20 understand the sentiments of the people on the 21 Island, but I believe that their argument about 22 lack of power and representational government 23 can be expanded to any group in any organization 4589 1 where they don't actually have control of the 2 political process. 3 So under those circumstances, Mr. 4 President, and also because to some extent I 5 think we have to look to guidance from the Mayor 6 of the City of New York. As Senator Connor 7 pointed out, I'm not so sure I would vote to 8 take away any portion of the city of Rochester 9 unless the mayor of the city of Rochester at 10 least told me how he felt about it; and because 11 I represent a city, a city that could have the 12 same kind of fracturing problem that occurs in 13 New York City, the same kind of fracturing 14 that's posed by this bill, Mr. President, I will 15 be voting in the negative. 16 I do so with some regret because 17 I know that Senator Marchi has worked on this 18 for a long time. I applaud your diligent 19 efforts on behalf of your constituents. But at 20 least at this stage, at this time, in this 21 state, at this time in my view of government, I 22 think we ought to be consolidating rather than 23 fracturing our governments further, and I will 4590 1 be voting no, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 3 recognizes Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 5 Senator Paterson has informed me that no other 6 member of the Minority wishes to debate the bill 7 at this time so, if we could, at this time 8 Senator Marchi will close. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 10 recognizes Senator Marchi to close debate on 11 Calendar Number 363. 12 Senator Marchi. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: I listened with 14 interest to your remarks, Senator Dollinger. 15 It's difficult to analogize the circumstances. 16 Virtually all of the members of the Legislature 17 out of the -- outside the city of New York have 18 -- can relate to identifiable communities, so 19 that the absence of a voice -- you know, 400,000 20 people is -- represents many, many counties or 21 -- it's a giant -- it's a giant population, and 22 the only representation they have are two and a 23 fraction councilmen in a body of 51 members. 4591 1 These are staggering facts that 2 underlie the dilemma that we have. I agree with 3 you, I didn't -- I didn't -- it's not that I was 4 at war with the one man, one vote. I argued 5 very eloquently, I think, in my own impoverished 6 way when I was younger and I did it better. I 7 thought it made eminent sense. People should be 8 represented fully and in the spirit in which you 9 said it, no question about that, but where does 10 that leave us? Where does that leave us? 11 We cannot live in a city where 12 we're -- our county concerns -- Do you realize 13 that if one of our councilmen has an issue, he 14 has the support of the other councilmen, but in 15 the city -- in the large counties where they - 16 where they -- Brooklyn, I think, has over 22 or 17 23 council members. These are big counties, so 18 that they have -- automatically you get a 19 certain support from your fellow members in the 20 -- within the borough, so we don't have that. 21 I mean put us all together, we have two and a 22 fraction, two and a fraction. Very -- it's a 23 very difficult task. So I'm not quarreling with 4592 1 the decision of the Supreme Court. 2 As a matter of fact, at that time 3 I wrote a letter. I said, "Well, now you've 4 established the principle. Hallelujah!" I 5 wrote to each member of the Supreme Court and I 6 said, "The only thing is that perhaps you may be 7 sundering a city." 8 I received a letter from Judge 9 Souter, who had -- he wrote back, they all wrote 10 back, very nice letters, acknowledgments, and 11 Souter said, "Well, look, don't blame me," he 12 said. "I don't take credit or blame," he said, 13 "because I wasn't a member at the time that the 14 issue arose, but I did follow you in the '60s," 15 which shows he's a lot younger than I am. 16 But, in any event, I would like 17 to -- maybe it's an imposition at this hour, but 18 I would like to read to you the Charter of the 19 city of Staten Island. Why? Because the 20 preamble -- because I wrote it and I put my 21 heart into this thing. 22 "The people of Staten Island, 23 exercising their right to propose a government 4593 1 of their choosing through which all people can 2 be effectively represented, do hereby adopt this 3 Charter. 4 "The birth of a city must, of 5 necessity, take place in an aura of excitement 6 and great expectations when it occurs at a time 7 when society's experiencing strong institutional 8 challenges. In a climate of skepticism, it 9 places heavy burdens on those responsible for 10 leadership to sustain a commitment by the people 11 to live and function together as a community. 12 "The provision of a structure of 13 governance at the local level is an extraordin 14 ary and crucial responsibility. Sophocles --" 15 Well, I don't see Senator Skelos. "Sophocles 16 wisely observed that 'the city is the people.'" 17 Those are within quotes. 18 "The city of Staten Island must 19 place a high premium on assuring meaningful 20 participation of its citizenry in governmental 21 decisions affecting their lives. 22 "We must respect the principles 23 of equality and the social dignity of all of our 4594 1 residents and provide them with a complete 2 development of the individual, promoting actions 3 which favor the advancement of men and women in 4 realizing their fullest potential. 5 "We must embrace policies that 6 promote and give effectiveness to the rights of 7 every person, with particular attention to those 8 who face special challenges in striving for a 9 full life. 10 "We must assert a policy of 11 favoring equal opportunity employment for all 12 women and men. 13 "We must foster a culture that 14 is peaceful and non-violent and that safeguards 15 the rights of all inhabitants to carry out their 16 lawful activities on Staten Island. 17 "We should give strong 18 supportive efforts for the conservation and 19 defense of the environment along with 20 advancement of the cultural and natural values 21 that sustain them. 22 "We consent to be governed by 23 the new municipality in the belief that a 4595 1 smaller, localized city government may 2 effectively and responsibly balance the needs of 3 the people with the cost of providing municipal 4 services. 5 "The city of Staten Island can 6 serve as a model for the promotion of the common 7 welfare, the guarantor of individual liberties 8 and the guardian of the social, spiritual, 9 economic and cultural concerns of its 10 inhabitants. 11 "We believe this act of self 12 determination to be in the best interests of the 13 people of Staten Island and the people of the 14 city of New York. We hope together as sister 15 cities we can work cooperatively in efforts of 16 regional concern and the betterment of New York 17 State." 18 I authored this, and I think it 19 sums up my personal attitude and the commission 20 accepted it as an appropriate preamble to the 21 charter that we had formulated. 22 In your absence, Senator, I did 23 quote Sophocles. 4596 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Well, we have it 3 even in the case law of this state. I believe 4 it was in 1890 in the Court of Appeals of the 5 state of New York, when the presiding justice 6 said that our community -- our communities are 7 the cradles and the nurseries of liberty, and to 8 the extent that we can make it meaningful and 9 significant, that, I think, has characterized 10 the American system. 11 New York City is an unusual 12 city. I'm very proud of New York City. I ran 13 for mayor of New York City and, certainly, the 14 affinity is great and meaningful. 15 You mentioned the fact or someone 16 mentioned the fact that the mayors have been 17 strangely silent. In fact, I told -- when I 18 discussed this issue with each and every mayor, 19 I said, "Look, I wouldn't feel very good if you 20 said go. We're not going to object. I feel 21 that you're -- the fact that you want us in is 22 something sincere and that comes from the 23 heart." 4597 1 Mayor Giuliani said he would not 2 attempt to block and, in fact, he has not 3 attempted to block, but he has also said that, 4 "I would do everything possible to -- to invite 5 your continued presence in the city of New 6 York." 7 So I had no quarrel with Mayor 8 Koch or Mayor Dinkins, and all three individuals 9 are friends of mine and I think you will know - 10 you will see that, in any action that comes 11 before us on this floor, you will find me on the 12 side of helping a "sister city", as we refer to 13 it in the preamble; but it's the fascination 14 that -- that, I think, the whole world respects 15 in the United States, the fact that there is, 16 even in the smallest community -- I had a - 17 when we were holding some of the hearings on 18 Staten Island, I had a picture of Sherrill. I 19 don't know who represents Sherrill, perhaps 20 Senator Stafford. Perhaps, yeah. That's a 21 little city of 2,600 people, and there was a 22 little girl there about seven or eight years old 23 who made a statement about her pride in being in 4598 1 this little city. It's the smallest city of the 2 state of New York, Sherrill, New York, and she 3 shared her pride in the fact that she belonged 4 to this city and that she was an inhabitant of 5 the city of Sherrill, and there, of course, 6 government and people and society is very 7 close. Certainly the dimensions of size -- you 8 don't have Athenian democracy, but almost, 9 probably as close as you can possibly get to 10 it. 11 This is the -- this is the spirit 12 that animates us. This is the spirit that I 13 trust will animate my colleagues as they rally 14 to the -- to this forum to pronounce their 15 judgment, and we have to take pride. 16 Now, I know that Senator Connor 17 mentioned that the state of New York -- that 18 Staten Island was not the analogy of -- the 19 Declaration of Independence was not analogous to 20 Staten Island. I remember that I went to speak 21 before the Sons of the Revolution at Fraunces 22 Tavern in New York, and I started in by telling 23 them -- I said, "No one has yet to prove to me 4599 1 that taxation with representation is any better 2 than taxation without it." They -- they were - 3 it was a very cordial exchange and we left on 4 the best of terms. 5 I thank you for your forbearance, 6 especially during the reading of the preamble, 7 and I thank you for the attentiveness and the 8 manner in which you've addressed this issue. 9 Whether you were on one side or the other, it 10 was always -- it was done in good taste and, I 11 think, with evident sincerity. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 16 call, Mr. President. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson, are you asking for a slow roll call? 4600 1 Are there five members? There are five members 2 standing. 3 I'll ask the Secretary to call 4 the roll slowly. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate, 6 excused. 7 Senator Babbush recorded in the 8 negative earlier today. 9 Senator Bruno. 10 (Affirmative indication.) 11 THE SECRETARY: In the 12 affirmative. 13 Senator Connor. 14 (Negative indication.) 15 THE SECRETARY: In the negative. 16 Senator Cook. 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 19 recognizes Senator Cook to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, as 21 one of those persons who lives in a section of 22 New York State that is not officially part of 23 New York City but over which they, nevertheless, 4601 1 try to exercise their governance, I have great 2 sympathy with the people of Staten Island, and I 3 enthusiastically vote in the affirmative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Cook will be recorded in the affirmative. 6 The Secretary will continue to 7 call the roll slowly. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 DeFrancisco recorded in the affirmative earlier 10 today. 11 Senator DiCarlo. 12 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator DiCarlo to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 16 as I said earlier, it's a very proud day for me 17 to be a small part in this creation of a new 18 city along with Senator Marchi. 19 I do it for the reasons which I 20 stated earlier and in -- just in brief response 21 to the Minority Leader, Senator Connor, I do 22 understand history and I think it was the 23 residents of Manhattan who held out longer, or I 4602 1 would like to think that, than the residents of 2 Staten Island or Brooklyn with the British. 3 Also, I didn't have with me 4 copies of press releases or letters that the 5 Senator had done while he was a representative 6 of the borough of Staten Island, in which he 7 said that he was supportive, I believe, of 8 Staten Island becoming its own city. He says he 9 has matured with age. I surely hope so. 10 I vote aye. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 DiCarlo will be recorded in the affirmative. 13 The Secretary will continue to 14 call the roll slowly. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President, just to explain - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Dollinger to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My views on 22 the issue were well-known. I'll just say 23 something personally to Senator Marchi. 4603 1 I vote against this bill today 2 not to deny you the title of the Father of 3 Staten Island, but instead in recognition of 4 what, I think, I hope and I know will be your 5 title in this state, that you will be known as 6 one of the great men of the city of New York, a 7 man who has run for mayor, a man who has 8 vigorously represented his constituents and a 9 man who was a voice for a great portion of the 10 city of New York. 11 Unfortunately, I, for the reasons 12 expressed and my own philosophical views of 13 fracturing government, I'm going to vote no, but 14 I think that that is a wonderful title and a 15 wonderful culmination of your career to have 16 that title alone, one that you have well 17 merited. 18 I'm voting in the negative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 21 The Secretary will continue to 22 call the roll slowly. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada, 4604 1 excused. 2 Senator Farley. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Farley to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 It's a pleasure to rise and 8 support Senator Marchi, one of the great 9 treasures of this whole Legislature who served 10 here longer than any other member, who's a 11 legend in Staten Island, literally a legend. 12 When somebody -- one of my 13 students comes from Senator -- from Staten 14 Island. He asked me if I know Senator Marchi, 15 and with pride I say I do; and I want to say 16 that a few years ago -- I think it was last 17 year, I'm not sure -- Senator Connor in an 18 impassioned speech really convinced me of the 19 merit of what you're trying to do here, Senator 20 Marchi, and it was with that that I 21 enthusiastically was convinced by Senator Connor 22 that Staten Island should become its own city. 23 It will be -- it's unique. It is 4605 1 unique from the other boroughs. It's more like 2 upstate New York, as a matter of fact, by the 3 amount of automobiles that are owned by its 4 residents and the homes, and so forth. I think 5 that they're entitled to this. I think that 6 everybody in here supports the idea that the 7 government that is closest to the people is the 8 best government. I think we, generally 9 speaking, all concur in that, and certainly the 10 people of Staten Island are enthusiastically in 11 favor of their independence, and I think that 12 this Legislature and this government ought to 13 give them that. 14 I vote aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Farley will be recorded in the affirmative. 17 The Secretary will continue to 18 call the roll slowly. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Gold recorded in the 22 negative earlier today. 23 Senator Gonzalez. 4606 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Goodman, excused. 3 Senator Hannon. 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 6 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann, 8 excused. 9 Senator Holland recorded in the 10 affirmative earlier today. 11 Senator Johnson recorded in the 12 affirmative earlier today. 13 Senator Jones. 14 (Negative indication.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger 16 recorded in the negative earlier today. 17 Senator Kuhl. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack 20 recorded in the affirmative earlier today. 21 Senator Larkin. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 4607 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 3 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter, 5 excused. 6 Senator Levy. 7 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Marcellino. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Marcellino to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 16 President, if I didn't rise to explain this vote 17 and to urge the support of John Marchi my 18 relatives, many though they may be, who live on 19 Staten Island, would rise up and move into my 20 district and probably vote against me. So I 21 have to do this, and I do this with pleasure 22 because, although I haven't had the privilege of 23 serving with Senator Marchi for very long, I've 4608 1 known of his accomplishments and I read about 2 him for many years. He certainly is to be 3 honored in the work he has done on behalf of the 4 people of Staten Island and their desire to 5 secede is to his credit and to his honor. 6 We've heard a lot of arguments, 7 some who have said that we've fractioned 8 government by allowing the city to separate. 9 It's almost as if they're saying bigger is 10 better. It would be my contention that 11 government should be as close to the people as 12 possible and that, within reasonable limits, 13 bigger is not necessarily better; but that if 14 you can get a unit that is close to the 15 population, that is self-sustainable and can 16 handle the situation, as the people of Staten 17 Island have proven they can, I think you owe it 18 to them to allow them the right to secede, and I 19 look to my Senator -- my fellow Senator from 20 Long Island, from the east end, Senator LaValle, 21 and agree with his contention about the Peconic 22 County and will rise at that point in time, 23 hopefully, to be able to support that motion as 4609 1 well in that movement. 2 This is a good day and a proud 3 day and I hope this motion carries. I vote aye. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Marcellino recorded in the affirmative. 6 The Secretary will continue to 7 call the roll. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 9 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Markowitz. 12 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Markowitz to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Thank you 17 very much. 18 Somehow, Senator Marchi, no 19 matter how much great respect I have for you, I 20 have some very definite feelings on this issue. 21 Maybe the answer should be to 22 make Staten Island part of New Jersey rather 23 than stay in the state of New York, I don't 4610 1 know. I wonder if my colleagues would agree 2 with that? 3 Secondly, maybe the answer is not 4 to make Staten Island independent but to rip 5 down the Verrazano Bridge. It could be, knowing 6 some of the residents in your beautiful borough, 7 they still are bitter, many of them, about the 8 construction of the Verrazano Bridge. Maybe 9 with the right federal assistance from your 10 government down in the Congress, maybe they will 11 provide funds to rip down the Verrazano Bridge, 12 and I have a hunch that the residents of Staten 13 Island, those that are vocal on this subject, 14 would probably remain in the city of New York if 15 the bridge were down. 16 But in all seriousness, if there 17 was a county that should be free, it should be 18 Kings County, not Richmond County. If we're 19 really talking about who should be free, it 20 should be the 2.4 million people living in 21 Brooklyn, New York, Kings County, but the truth 22 of the matter is that I know, since I have 23 relatives and friends in Staten Island, Senator 4611 1 Marchi, I understand -- I don't accept but I 2 understand some of their rationale for not 3 wanting to be part of our metropolitan New York 4 City. We know. I don't want to go into heavy 5 duty debates here, but I think many of us 6 understand some of the motivations. 7 I think that those that brought 8 the City together as a unit had the great wisdom 9 back then, Senator Marchi, and continue to have, 10 Senator, good wisdom to remain in the city of 11 New York. We want to maintain a multi-cultural 12 city, Senator Marchi, a multi-cultural city. 13 That means we go from the most urban to -- I 14 wouldn't call Staten Island rural, and I just 15 heard a comment that it's more like upstate New 16 York. That's not true. It's not true. Any of 17 you that have ever visited Staten Island, you 18 can't compare Staten Island with upstaters. 19 They are not upstaters. They are sophisticated 20 New York City residents, that's what they are, 21 who choose to live in a borough -- who choose to 22 live in a borough that has more -- excuse me. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4612 1 Markowitz. 2 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: That's not 3 saying upstate is not sophisticated, they are. 4 Admit it. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Markowitz. 7 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: New York 8 City - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Markowitz. 11 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Staten Island 12 is - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Markowitz, in order to free the members of this 15 chamber from your lecture, I would call a note 16 to you that your two minutes has expired. How 17 do you vote? 18 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: I will just 19 say -- I will just conclude -- I'll conclude by 20 saying that we value the residents of Staten 21 Island as part of our city and, in turn, part of 22 our state and by my voting no on this, it's 23 reaffirming how much we value their participa 4613 1 tion in making New York City the great state 2 that it is -- the great city that it is. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Markowitz will be recorded in the negative. 5 The Secretary will continue to 6 call the roll slowly. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz 8 recorded in the affirmative earlier today. 9 Senator Mendez excused. 10 Senator Montgomery. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Montgomery to explain her vote. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 14 President, to explain my vote. 15 My colleague, Senator Markowitz, 16 has made such an eloquent argument against the 17 secession of Staten Island, but I would just 18 like to add to that, in addition to the issue of 19 multi-culturalism and the diversity of our city 20 and -- that Staten Island adds so much to that. 21 What would we do if somehow, for some reason, 22 the city of Staten Island decides that it does 23 not want residents from the borough of Brooklyn 4614 1 to visit the children's zoo or the children's 2 museum? Those are treasures which we certainly 3 do not ever want to lose access to and -- among 4 other treasures that the borough of Staten 5 Island offers. 6 So, though I have every bit of 7 respect for Senator Marchi and I know how he is 8 revered in the borough of Staten Island, I am 9 voting no, not against Senator Marchi but 10 against the possibility of us ever possibly 11 losing access to those wonderful cultural 12 institutions that Staten Island offers. 13 I vote no, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Montgomery in the negative. 16 The Secretary will continue to 17 call the roll. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula 19 recorded in the negative earlier today. 20 Senator Nozzolio recorded in the 21 affirmative earlier today. 22 Senator Onorato. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4615 1 Onorato to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 3 to explain my vote. 4 I rise to show my respect for 5 Senator Marchi, not by supporting the bill, but 6 by -- I can't envision of the city of New York 7 without the wonderful voice of Senator Marchi, 8 and I certainly cannot envision the city of New 9 York not being able to offer you the right to 10 run again for the mayor of the city of New York. 11 And, for that reason, Mr. 12 President, I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Onorato in the negative. 15 The Secretary will continue to 16 call the roll. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explain my 20 vote, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Oppenheimer to explain her vote. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, even 4616 1 though I also will be voting no like everyone 2 else, I want to say that you are -- you are 3 beloved and revered in this chamber, as well as 4 in your home borough. 5 I'm voting no because I have long 6 accepted the wisdom of the larger whole having a 7 say in this decision. I think I, more than 8 anyone else in this chamber, have experienced 9 the same situation when I was mayor of 10 Mamaroneck. I went three times to a referendum 11 for making our village a co-terminous town/ 12 village, which would have required us coming out 13 of the two towns in which we're in, the town of 14 Mamaroneck and the town of Rye, and making us 15 our own co-terminous, single-boundary town/ 16 village. 17 This is something that's not 18 uncommon in my county. Scarsdale is a town/ 19 village, Harrison is a town/village, but I could 20 not get the acquiescence of both towns. I could 21 only get the vote out of one town and not out of 22 the other, and we kept going back, trying again, 23 trying to explain why it was important to this 4617 1 village, which is a large village and has its 2 own identity and has all of its own offices. We 3 have assessors and engineers. I mean we had 4 everything, and we had nothing that the town was 5 providing us outside of the elections for which 6 they put up the machinery, and we really pleaded 7 with them, but we could not convince one of the 8 town's electorate to let us go. 9 So that was in the mid-'70s. It 10 colored my thinking. I know now, and acquiesce 11 to that philosophy, that the larger whole has a 12 right to vote on its dismemberment. So that's 13 why I'm voting no, through bitter experience but 14 also having come to terms with it. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Oppenheimer in the negative. 17 The Secretary will continue to 18 call the roll. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 4618 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Rath to explain her vote. 5 SENATOR RATH: To explain my 6 vote. 7 My sincerest congratulations and 8 admiration to Senator Marchi for the excellent 9 job that you've done in 13 years of very hard 10 and, I would say, landmark legislation. 11 One of your comments in your 12 opening remark was that you had felt that it was 13 a moral obligation to pursue this with all of 14 the parties involved until every stone was 15 turned, and from following some of this today, 16 it appears that every stone has been turned and 17 we all will owe you a debt of gratitude, and I 18 may say, we may owe you a larger debt of 19 gratitude than we would ever know. 20 In western -- unsophisticated - 21 where's Senator Marchi -- unsophisticated 22 western New York, which I happen to be a member 23 of the western New York delegation and Dale 4619 1 Volker and I are going to take that up with 2 Senator Marchi eventually, but let me tell you 3 what we have. If you'll take a walk with me 4 down a map, the Great Lakes, Lake Erie, Niagara 5 River, Lake Ontario -- Niagara River, Niagara 6 Falls, of course, Lake Ontario. Niagara River 7 has sitting in the middle of the Niagara River, 8 Grand Island, which is the world's largest 9 inland island, and right now, there's discussion 10 that the Indians may really own that island and 11 we may have to go back and take a look at every 12 bit of legislation and every bit of research 13 that has been done in relation to what can be 14 done. 15 Now, granted, an Indians' treaty 16 is a little different than what we're talking 17 about here but, indeed, if we go -- if this goes 18 to court, we have a set of circumstances that 19 may, as I said, be looking for every bit of 20 legislation. 21 Beyond that, however, let me 22 point out that in the Assembly there has been 23 legislation introduced other years indicating 4620 1 that maybe we should have the state of "Upstate 2 New York" and, consequently, I followed some of 3 that in the county legislature because, again, I 4 was asked to take a look at doing memorializa 5 tion to the state, and what I found when we 6 looked at what Virginia and West Virginia did 7 was very interesting and, indeed, landmark 8 legislation because that didn't happen all that 9 long ago; and so we're talking about here -- and 10 Senator Marchi was very clear -- the right to 11 self-rule. We're talking about -- and Senator 12 Waldon indicated also, home rule and the right 13 to self-rule. 14 We may have other places in New 15 York State that are looking for self-rule, and 16 maybe the opportunity for the state of "Upstate" 17 may be a discussion some day down in the 18 future. I'm grateful and all of the people of 19 the state of New York will be grateful for the 20 spade work you have done in determining 21 self-rule. 22 I vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4621 1 Rath in the affirmative. 2 The Secretary will continue to 3 call the roll. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Explain my vote, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Saland to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Like so many 10 others in this chamber on both sides of the 11 aisle, I would like to commend Senator Marchi 12 for certainly what's been a herculean effort for 13 one of the giants of this Legislature or any 14 other Legislature. 15 I commend you, not only for your 16 usual quality of work but for your perseverance 17 and your constancy. You've seen this issue 18 through from the beginning, and I'm sure you'll 19 continue until you have accomplished your final 20 end. 21 I would like to just remark, if I 22 might, on some of the comments from my disting 23 uished colleague, Senator Markowitz. They seem 4622 1 somewhat reminiscent of comments I heard from a 2 former mayor of the city of New York who talked 3 about people in calico dresses and pickup 4 trucks. I would think that, Senator Markowitz, 5 given the level of sophistication that he has 6 attributed to the people of Staten Island, would 7 be one of the first people to support this bill 8 because, if they're as sophisticated as he says 9 he is, he should certainly should give them 10 their way on what is a home rule message. 11 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 12 in the affirmative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Saland in the affirmative. The Secretary will 15 continue to call the roll. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 17 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 19 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Aye. 4623 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 2 SENATOR SMITH: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon, 4 excused. 5 Senator Spano. 6 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Stachowski. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 11 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 12 Senator Stavisky voting in the 13 negative earlier today. 14 Senator Trunzo voting in the 15 affirmative earlier today. 16 Senator Tully. 17 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Volker. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4624 1 Waldon to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Very briefly, 3 Mr. President. 4 This legislation is of profound 5 importance to Senator Marchi and to Senator 6 DiCarlo and Assemblywoman Connolly and Straniere 7 -- Assemblyman Straniere and Assemblyman 8 Vitaliano, but especially to our dear colleague, 9 Senator Marchi, and even in this place, this 10 chamber, this Senate, what goes around comes 11 around. 12 I support Senator Marchi. I 13 think what he's doing is of great importance and 14 will be long remembered on behalf of the people 15 of the borough, soon to be city of Staten 16 Island, and I vote yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Waldon in the affirmative. 19 The Secretary will continue to 20 call the roll. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright 22 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4625 1 Secretary will call the absentees. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber. 3 SENATOR GALIBER: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 5 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Maltese to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 10 first of all, like so many of my colleagues, I 11 wish to congratulate Senator Marchi on not only 12 his persistence and perseverance, but certainly 13 his acumen and dedication in pursuing this 14 legislation. 15 I'd like to point out that, had 16 Senator Marchi achieved the victory in the 17 mayoral campaign when some of us worked together 18 with Senator DiCarlo's dad and many others in 19 his mayoral campaign, I don't know that the city 20 of New York perhaps would not have been much the 21 better, and instead of Staten Island seeking to 22 secede, we may have had Nassau, Suffolk and 23 Westchester seeking to join us; but since that 4626 1 isn't the case, I'd like to briefly just comment 2 on Senator Markowitz' expressions. 3 In this 50th anniversary of the 4 Second World War, it's interesting that the 5 personification of Kings County, represented by 6 Senator Markowitz, as I remember, was the 7 presence of "them bums" and the exemplification 8 of Brooklynese as personified by William Bendix, 9 as I remember, in many of the old movies; but 10 given that Senator Markowitz feels that way, 11 then perhaps, with the secession of Staten 12 Island, we'll see the sophistication of New York 13 City rise and, if Queens County is able to 14 follow the excellent example of Staten Island, 15 then perhaps we can leave Senator Markowitz to 16 that level of sophistication that he wishes to 17 achieve. 18 Mr. President, I vote in the 19 affirmative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Maltese in the affirmative. 22 The Secretary will continue to 23 call the absentees. 4627 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 2 (There was no response.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 17. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 10 housekeeping, Mr. President? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. We 12 have a substitution at the desk, Senator 13 Skelos. Ask the Secretary to read. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 19, 15 Senator Leibell moves to discharge from the 16 Committee on Housing and Community Development, 17 Assembly Bill 5097-A, and substitute it for the 18 identical bill, Third Reading 275. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 substitution is ordered. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 at this time, I know that many members of the 4628 1 Majority thought there would be a conference at 2 2:00 today. There will not be a conference 3 today at 2:00. There will be a conference on 4 Monday of the Majority at 2:00 p.m. sharp, and 5 there being no further business, I move we 6 adjourn until Monday, April 17th, 1995 at 3:00 7 p.m. sharp. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection - 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Intervening days 11 to be legislative days. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until 14 Monday, April 17th, at 3:00 p.m. 15 (Whereupon, at 1:08 p.m., the 16 Senate adjourned.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23