Wednesday, May 24, 1995

6512 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 May 24, 1995 10 10:04 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 6513 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their places, staff take seats. Ask 5 everybody in the house to stand up and join me 6 in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 We're very pleased today to be 10 joined by the Rabbi Cecil Walkenfeld, the 11 Spiritual Leader of the Clearview Jewish Center 12 of Whitestone, New York. Rabbi Walkenfeld. 13 RABBI CECIL WALKENFELD: 14 Almighty and merciful good protector of all 15 people, as the members of this Senate of the 16 state of New York, the elected guardians of its 17 welfare, begin their deliberations, we pray that 18 You, O God, will bless them. Protect them from 19 every trouble and misfortune. Guard them from 20 all the stress, affliction and injury. Sustain 21 them in their dedication to the civic, social 22 and economic progress of all its inhabitants. 23 Do guide them, we pray, to use the wisdom and 6514 1 understanding with which You have endowed them 2 so that at all times they combine justice with 3 compassion, are always equitable and fair and 4 that they diligently protect the rights of all 5 who live within this state of New York. 6 May they not stumble or falter in 7 their decisions in order that they judge cor 8 rectly, judiciously conclude their contempla 9 tions so that only good and progress occur 10 through their actions. May it be Your will, O 11 Lord, that through the accomplishments of this 12 Senate, the state of New York shall be a model 13 of proper government for all states. Send 14 blessing and success in all their 15 deliberations. For this we pray. Amen. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Amen. 17 Reading of the Journal. 18 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 19 Tuesday, May 23rd. The Senate met pursuant to 20 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 21 designation of the Temporary President. The 22 Journal of Monday, May 22nd, was read and 23 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 6515 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 2 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 3 read. 4 Presentation of petitions. 5 Messages from the Assembly. 6 Messages from the Governor. 7 Reports of standing committees. 8 Reports of select committees. 9 Communications and reports from 10 state officers. 11 Motions and resolutions. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 14 believe there's a resolution sponsored by 15 Senator Mendez at the desk. I ask that the 16 resolution be read in its entirety and adopted, 17 and that Senator Mendez be recognized to explain 18 her vote. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos, there is a privileged resolution at the 21 desk. I'll ask the Secretary to read the 22 privileged resolution in its entirety. 23 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6516 1 Mendez, Legislative Resolution, honoring 1st 2 Lieutenant Ellen Meagher Danker and Captain 3 Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes for their valiant 4 tours of duty as members of the United States 5 Army Nurse Corps during World War II. 6 WHEREAS, members of the armed 7 services from the state of New York who have 8 served so valiantly and honorably in wars in 9 which this country's freedom was at stake as 10 well as in the preservation of peace in 11 peacetime, deserve a special salute from this 12 legislative body; and 13 WHEREAS, attendant to such 14 concern and in full accord with its long 15 standing traditions, it is the sense of this 16 legislative body to honor 1st Lieutenant Ellen 17 Meagher Danker and Captain Betty Schwartz Holmes 18 for their valiant tour of duty as members of the 19 U. S. Army Nurse Corps during World War II; 20 Ellen Meagher Danker of Albany, 21 New York and Betty Schwartz Holmes of Buffalo, 22 New York met at Pine Camp, now Fort Drum, New 23 York, in April of 1942, where they were 6517 1 commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants in the Army 2 Nurse Corps; 3 Ellen Meagher Danker and 4 Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes' friendship was formed 5 in the tumultuous years of the second World War 6 and has endured since; 7 Initially assigned to the 17th 8 Station Hospital in the Outback of Australia, 9 Ellen Meagher Danker and Elizabeth Schwartz 10 Holmes were then deployed to form the 11th 11 Portable Hospital, the forerunner of today's 12 MASH Units; 13 Subsequent assignments included 14 Charters Towers, Australia, New Guinea, Panama, 15 Denver and Manila. Both were honorably 16 discharged in 1945; and 17 WHEREAS this Legislature is 18 justly proud of its commitment to the veterans 19 who served in times of active conflict and in 20 times of peace; 21 No greater debt is owed than that 22 to those who serve their country preserving 23 peace and ministering to the needs of those who 6518 1 fought in freedom's cause; 2 Having exhibited their patriotism 3 both at home and abroad, Ellen Meagher Danker 4 and Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes demonstrated their 5 love for their country and fellow man and now 6 merit the highest respect from the state of New 7 York; 8 This legislative body is greatly 9 moved to extend its highest commendation to 1st 10 Lieutenant Ellen Meagher Danker and Capt. 11 Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes for their meritorious 12 service; 13 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 14 that this legislative body pause in its 15 deliberations to honor Ellen Meagher Danker and 16 Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes for their years of 17 service, sacrifice and dedication to their 18 communities, their state and their beloved 19 country; and 20 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that 21 copies of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 22 be transmitted to Ellen Meagher Danker and 23 Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes. 6519 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 2 recognizes Senator Mendez on the resolution. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 It is indeed an honor for me to 6 introduce to my colleagues here today these two 7 wonderful American women who contributed their 8 share shoulder to shoulder with men fighting for 9 the freedoms of this great country of ours, and 10 Mrs. Holmes is visiting here today. In fact, I 11 understand that she has a rather -- a nephew 12 that is a judge in Buffalo, probably very well 13 known by both Senators from Buffalo, Senator 14 Volker and Senator Stachowski, and Mrs. Danker 15 has been a resident of Albany for many, many 16 years. 17 I think it's appropriate, as the 18 resolution states, that as we celebrate the 50 19 years of effort of our men fighting and 20 gloriously defending our freedoms, that we also 21 remember that women here within the country made 22 a tremendous effort working in factories, 23 producing the planes and all the -- the physical 6520 1 armaments that were required for our men to 2 fight up there in the war fronts, and these two 3 women, personal friends of mine, do represent a 4 sample of the glorious work done by them on 5 behalf of all of us. 6 So anyone who would like to join 7 in this resolution please do so. Mrs. Danker, 8 would you kindly stand up. 9 (Applause.) 10 Mrs. Holmes? 11 (Applause.) 12 Thank you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Paterson on the resolution. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 on behalf of our Minority Leader, Senator 17 Connor, we would also like to extend our 18 congratulations to Lt. Ellen Meagher Danker and 19 also Capt. Elizabeth Schwartz Holmes on a week 20 that we are honoring all Americans who fought 21 overseas and even in this country, to give us 22 the opportunity to be here today to deliberate 23 and to pass legislation that strengthens and 6521 1 enhances the value of living in this particular 2 country. 3 The added benefit that they have 4 to their military service is that they are 5 friends of Senator Olga Mendez who I've been 6 working for years to become a friend of, and I 7 think -- I think I'm getting close. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 10 recognizes Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 I want to join Senator Mendez in 14 support of this resolution and, on behalf of 15 Senator Bruno, welcome our two distinguished 16 guests to the chambers today. In particular, I 17 wanted to pay tribute to Mrs. Danker because my 18 wife, Gail, is a lifelong friend of the Danker 19 community. In fact, she grew up with many of 20 Mrs. Danker's children, and perhaps after 21 session you can tell me some stories that I can 22 hold against her. 23 But we do welcome you to the 6522 1 chambers again on behalf of Senator Bruno and 2 the entire Senate Majority. 3 Congratulations. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 question is on -- Senator Marchi. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. Mr. 7 President, through them we also have the 8 opportunity of thanking so many of their 9 colleagues that served valiantly and with great 10 commitment. I feel I owe my life really, when I 11 was out in the Far East and had a rough time and 12 their ministrations that went around the clock, 13 their devotion and care simply would not have 14 been enough, and I really credit my life to 15 them. 16 So there are so many of you who 17 have done so much good, and your presence here 18 today gives us an opportunity to thank them as 19 well as yourselves who have exemplified the very 20 best that is in the service that you have 21 rendered, the type of service. 22 Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6523 1 question is on the resolution. All those in 2 favor signify by saying aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Opposed nay. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 The resolution is unanimously 7 adopted. 8 The Chair recognizes Senator 9 Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 11 believe there is a privileged resolution at the 12 desk by Senator Hoffmann. I ask that the title 13 be read and the resolution adopted. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the privileged resolution by Senator 16 Hoffmann, the title. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Hoffmann, Legislative Resolution commending 19 Madison County's Senior Citizens of the Year. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 21 is on the resolution. All those in favor 22 signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 6524 1 Opposed nay. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 The resolution is adopted. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 6 if we could go to the non-controversial calendar 7 at this time. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the non-controversial calendar, but 10 before that, the Chair recognizes Senator Rath. 11 SENATOR RATH: On page 53 of the 12 starred calendar, I'd like the star removed from 13 Calendar 337, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the 15 request of the sponsor, the star will be removed 16 on Calendar 337. 17 Senator Saland. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 19 would like to remove the sponsor's star from 20 Calendar Number 958, Print Number 4987A. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, star is removed. 23 Senator Trunzo. 6525 1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President, 2 there will be an immediate meeting of the Civil 3 Service and Pension Committee in Room 332. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 5 will be an immediate meeting of the Civil 6 Service and Pension Committee in the Majority 7 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of 8 Civil Service and Pensions Committee, Majority 9 Conference Room. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Now, Mr. Presi 12 dent, if we could take up the non-controversial 13 calendar at this time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the non-controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 17 Calendar Number 188, by Senator Cook, Senate 18 Print 2345A, an act to amend the Education Law, 19 in relation to the use of district categorical 20 aid funds. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6526 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 206, by member of the Assembly Pillittere, 10 Assembly Print 917A, an act to amend the 11 Navigation Law, in relation to vessel lighting 12 and the operation of personal watercraft. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6527 1 260, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2337B, an 2 act to amend the Correction Law and the Criminal 3 Procedure Law, in relation to notification 4 concerning released or escaped inmates. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 364, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2456, an act 17 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 18 to creating commuter railroad police 19 departments. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6528 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 387, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2833A, an act 9 to amend Chapter 689 of the Laws of 1993 10 amending the Criminal Procedure Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 446, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 25A, an act 23 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 6529 1 to granting a graduated real property school tax 2 exemption. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 455, by member of the Assembly Bragman, Assembly 15 Print 1905, an act to amend the Vehicle and 16 Traffic Law, in relation to fire police. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6530 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 607, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3918, an 6 act to amend the Public Housing Law, in relation 7 to creating the town of Patterson Housing 8 Authority. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leibell, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 19 with unanimous consent, I'd like to abstain from 20 voting on this bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Leibell, and hearing no 23 objection Senator Leibell will abstain from 6531 1 voting on this. Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays 3 zero. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 613, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano, 8 Assembly Print 2334, an act to amend Chapter 677 9 of the Laws of 1977, amending the Civil Service 10 Law and the Judiciary Law. 11 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Spano. 14 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 15 will you please lay that bill aside for the day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay that 17 bill aside for the day at the request of the 18 sponsor. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 616, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 2819, an 21 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation 22 to extending the effectiveness of provisions 23 establishing dispute resolution. 6532 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results when tabulated. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 11 one, Senator Rath recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 631, by member of the Assembly Englebright, 16 Assembly Print 1808, an act to amend the 17 Navigation Law, in relation to historic ship 18 wrecks. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6533 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 795, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4000A, 400A 8 rather, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 9 Law, in relation to exemption from tax for 10 persons 65 years of age or over. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 818, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3693, an 23 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 6534 1 in relation to the compensation of referees 2 appointed to sell real property. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 822, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3919. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 843, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 428, an act 20 in relation to authorizing the Commissioner of 21 Transportation to conduct a comprehensive 22 review. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6535 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 8 the results when tabulated. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 843 are Senators 11 DeFrancisco, Farley, Sears and Wright. Ayes - 12 also Senator Present; also Senators Maziarz and 13 Libous. Ayes 33, nays 7. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 847, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1181, an act 18 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 19 relation to allowing volunteer firefighters to 20 solicit funds. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6536 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 848, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1382, an act 10 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 11 relation to appropriate reduced speeds for motor 12 vehicles. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6537 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 877, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 11B, an act 3 to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 4 enacting the Sex Offender Registration Act. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 878, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 761, an 10 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 11 establishing the office of risk assessment and 12 management. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 18 the results when tabulated. Excuse me. Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results when tabulated. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41, nays 2, 6538 1 Senators Saland and Wright recorded in the 2 negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 880, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2361A, an 7 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 8 membership of the New York State Committee for 9 the Coordination of Police Services. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 901, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 691, an act 22 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to excluding 23 receipts from the sale of meteorological 6539 1 services from the imposition of sales tax. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 3 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 7 September. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 would you kindly recognize Senator Stafford. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Stafford. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 20 May we please have an immediate meeting of the 21 Committee on Finance in Room 332. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 23 will be an immediate meeting of the Committee on 6540 1 Finance in the Majority Conference Room, Room 2 332, immediate meeting of the Finance Committee 3 in the Majority Conference Room. 4 Secretary will continue to call 5 the non-controversial calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 903, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 906, an act 8 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to certain Tax 9 Department liens. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 bill's passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 927, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3308, an 22 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 23 exempting volunteer fire departments and 6541 1 companies and ambulance companies. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 3 please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 968, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print Number 8 3965, an act to amend the Military Law, in 9 relation to eligibility for the Conspicuous 10 Service Cross. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 969, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3992, an 23 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 6542 1 conforming amendments with regard to certain 2 dates of wartime service. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 970, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4227, 15 an act to amend the General City Law and the 16 Town Law, in relation to meeting rooms for the 17 Woman's Army Corps Veterans Association. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6543 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 973, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3939A, an act 7 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 8 relation to milk dealer and farm product dealer 9 security. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 974, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4527, an act 22 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 23 relation to the collection and disposition of 6544 1 dog license fees. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 6 January. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Senator Saland, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 15 would request unanimous consent to be recorded 16 in the negative on Calendar 843, Senate 428. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Saland 19 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 20 Number 843. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will continue calling the non-controversial 23 calendar. 6545 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 976, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1424, an 3 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 4 making certain incarcerated persons ineligible 5 for certain general tuition awards. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 9 Leader. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 983, by member of the Assembly A. Greene, 12 Assembly Print Number 184A, an act to amend the 13 Banking Law, in relation to loans and invest 14 ments by employees of the Banking Department. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6546 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 985, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 3852, an 4 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to 5 examination of banking organizations. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect the on the 1st day of 10 January. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 986, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4556, an 19 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to 20 requiring deputies to file oaths of office. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 6547 1 act shall take effect 30 days after it shall 2 have become law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 988, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4997, an 11 act to amend Chapter 166 of the Laws of 1991, 12 amending the Tax Law and others. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Skelos, that completes 6548 1 the non-controversial calendar. 2 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Lack, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR LACK: Yes. Without 6 objection, Mr. President, could I be voted in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 843, Bill Number 8 S. 428. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Lack 11 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 12 Number 843. 13 Senator Waldon, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 15 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 16 negative on Calendar 878. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, Senator Waldon, hearing no objection, 19 Senator Waldon will be recorded in the negative 20 on Calendar Number 878. 21 Senator Skelos, you having a hard 22 time hearing? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Do I have - 6549 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is it 2 noisy in here? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: A little bit. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I thought 5 I heard some of our members being a little 6 vociferous this morning. You're the one making 7 the noise, Senator Farley. Just quiet it down. 8 We're about to go, I think, to the controversial 9 calendar. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 11 if we could first return to motions and 12 resolutions, I believe there's a privileged 13 resolution at the desk that I've sponsored. I 14 ask that it be read in its entirety, that I have 15 the opportunity to make a comment and that it be 16 adopted. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Skelos, there is a privileged resolution that 19 you're offering at the desk. I'd like to ask 20 the Secretary to read it in its entirety. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Skelos 22 and others, Legislative Resolution memorializing 23 the Honorable George E. Pataki to proclaim May 6550 1 25, 1995 as Missing Children's Day in New York 2 State. 3 WHEREAS, the children of today 4 are our citizens of tomorrow and deserve a voice 5 to protect their interests; and 6 WHEREAS more than one million 7 children are reported missing, abducted, 8 murdered, lost, injured or have run away in the 9 United States each year; 10 There are currently more than 11 6,100 children missing in the state of New York, 12 an increase of more than 1,600 in one year's 13 time; 14 The injury of abduction has been 15 proven to cause permanent emotional trauma not 16 only to the children but to the relatives and 17 others who are close to the child; 18 Missing children, including those 19 abducted by family members or strangers, and 20 those who run away, often suffer emotional, 21 physical and sexual abuse; 22 It is important to remember all 23 children who are missing; and 6551 1 WHEREAS the New York State Senate 2 is joining forces with other missing children's 3 organizations, criminal justice officials, and 4 concerned citizens throughout America to observe 5 1995, National Missing Children's Day; 6 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 7 that the New York State Senate designates May 8 25, 1995 as Missing Children's Day in New York 9 State; and 10 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the 11 New York State Senate reaffirms its commitment 12 to address the issues of missing and exploited 13 children during 1995 National Missing Children's 14 Day and throughout the year; and 15 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that on 16 this day parents throughout New York State are 17 urged to be aware of the potential threat of 18 child abduction and exploitation and to 19 emphasize to their children the importance of 20 knowing their full names, address and telephone 21 numbers and of avoiding situations that can lead 22 to abduction; and 23 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 6552 1 copy of this Legislative Resolution, suitably 2 engrossed, be transmitted to the Honorable 3 George E. Pataki, Governor of the state of New 4 York. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Skelos, on the resolution. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 First of all, with the consent of 10 the Minority, I'd like to open up the resolution 11 for sponsorship by all members. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 13 members in the chamber who would like to be on 14 this resolution? All right. Senator Skelos, 15 why don't we take the appropriate standard 16 procedure. We'll put all of the members on the 17 resolution, both the Majority and the Minority 18 members except for those people who signify to 19 the desk at some time during the course of the 20 morning that they don't wish to be on the 21 resolution. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 6553 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos, on the resolution. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: On May 25, 1979, 4 Etan Patz vanished from the streets of New York 5 City on his way to school. The massive search 6 effort and media attention which followed helped 7 to focus national attention on the problem of 8 child abduction. 9 In 1981, our sensibilities were 10 again assaulted with the disappearance of 6 11 year-old Adam Walsh and the discovery of his 12 body two weeks later. 13 In the years following the 14 momentum which began with Etan and Adam's 15 disappearances served as a catalyst to move 16 elected officials, child advocates, families of 17 missing children and concerned citizens from 18 coast to coast to action. 19 Together, the Patz and the Walsh 20 families mobilized the government into action in 21 1982. President Reagan signed into law the 22 Missing Children Act in 1983. May 25th was 23 proclaimed National Missing Children's Day. In 6554 1 1984, the National Center for Missing and 2 Exploited Children was created to spearhead 3 efforts at the national level to locate and 4 recover missing children and help reduce crimes 5 against children. 6 Each year in communities across 7 America, family and friends of missing children 8 plan events to raise public awareness about the 9 problem of missing children. This year the 10 theme will be keep your porch lights on, help 11 light their way home. We are all asking all 12 members of the community to keep lights burning 13 throughout the night of May 25th as a visible 14 symbol to the children and to the whole 15 community that we care about children's safety. 16 A couple of statistics that I'd 17 like to mention. At the end of 1993, there were 18 4,547 missing children in New York State. At 19 the end of 1994, there were 6,147 missing 20 children in New York State. This is an increase 21 of 1600 children in one year, the largest jump 22 in numbers in the last decade. Of the 6,147 23 children missing in New York State, currently 6555 1 5,110 of these children are from New York City, 2 405 children are missing from downstate New 3 York, including Long Island, and 624 children 4 are missing from upstate New York. 5 I also have a special 6 introduction that I'd like to make at this time, 7 Mr. -- Mr. President. I am sure that you have 8 all heard the name Megan Kanka. A name that you 9 may not readily recognize is Maureen Kanka, 10 Megan Kanka's mother, but after today you will. 11 Since the rape and murder of her 7-year-old 12 daughter last July by a convicted sex offender 13 who lived across the street from her family 14 home, Maureen and her husband, Richard, have set 15 out to make the world a better and safer place 16 for everyone else's children. 17 As a result of this tragedy, with 18 the help of Maureen and Richard Kanka, the New 19 Jersey State Legislature passed and Governor 20 Christine Todd Whitman signed legislation which 21 monitors the whereabouts of sex offenders and 22 provides for the notification to communities of 23 a sex offender's presence. 6556 1 Since the enactment of "Megan's 2 Law", Maureen has established the foundation 3 called the Megan Nicole Kanka Foundation which 4 she operates to inform other states of the need 5 to enact similar legislation. Maureen has sent 6 packets of information to every state in the 7 United States on "Megan's Law" and has received 8 responses from 29 states to date. Six of those 9 states have introduced legislation as a result 10 of the foundation's efforts. Maureen has also 11 traveled from state to state to promote public 12 awareness and urge legislators to act on this 13 important issue. 14 Recently, Maureen traveled to 15 Maryland and Connecticut to address their 16 respective legislatures on sex offender 17 registration and community notification. I am 18 delighted to say that the state of Maryland 19 enacted their sex offender registration bill 20 into law more than two weeks ago. 21 Connecticut's sex offender 22 proposal has already passed one house of the 23 Legislature, and they are optimistic that the 6557 1 other house will send the bill to the Governor 2 soon. 3 Additionally, media 4 representatives from Germany, Austria, Scotland 5 and Japan have made visits to the Kanka home to 6 get information on "Megan's Law" as a possible 7 remedy to the problems they are also facing 8 across the world with the victimization of 9 innocent young children by pedophiles. 10 While this is already a big 11 triumph, Maureen has only begun her crusade. I 12 am proud to have Maureen here with us today in 13 the Senate chamber as we will shortly discuss, 14 debate and ultimately pass New York State's 15 version of "Megan's Law". 16 At this time, it's my honor to 17 introduce to you Maureen Kanka. 18 (Applause.) 19 Also with Maureen is Judy 20 Clevenger, who I know works very closely with 21 her traveling around the nation urging passage 22 of "Megan's Law" and we welcome you to the 23 Senate chamber. 6558 1 (Applause.) 2 And at this time I believe 3 Senator Libous would like to also make an 4 introduction and comment on the resolution. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Libous on the resolution. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. Thank you, Senator Skelos. Like 9 Maureen Kanka, there are many individuals who 10 have embraced this seemingly tragic situation, 11 the senseless and brutal slaying of an innocent 12 child, and used it as a force for good. One of 13 these individuals is a constituent of mine. It 14 is the Reverend Joseph Hind, the Pastor of St. 15 Paul's Lutheran Church in Johnson City, who is 16 also here in the chamber with us today. 17 Like many of us, Joe is the 18 father of a little boy, Max, aged 7, so you can 19 imagine the outrage that he felt when a 20 convicted pedophile was released into Max's 21 community in 1991. Rather than simply just rail 22 against the system which enabled a known sex 23 offender to quietly move into his neighborhood, 6559 1 Joe used his passive position to create an 2 organization called Protecting Our Children. 3 The group soon began to lobby for mandatory 4 registration and public notification when a sex 5 offender moves into a community. 6 Reverend Hind and his band of 7 volunteers soon organized a series of 8 constructive preventive programs like childhood 9 fingerprinting, like telling kids what to do if 10 a stranger tries to lure them into a car, all 11 these programs designed to protect children from 12 would be stalkers. 13 Last October, Maureen Kanka 14 joined Reverend Hind for a candlelight vigil and 15 a march of hope in Johnson City, New York, in an 16 effort to spearhead legislation similar to New 17 Jersey's "Megan's Law" here in New York State. 18 Aided by a core group of about 16 19 individuals and over 100 volunteers, Reverend 20 Hind has tirelessly criss-crossed the state 21 since then collecting nearly 20,000 signatures 22 urging us to honor the memory of Megan Kanka by 23 ensuring that thousands of other would-be Megans 6560 1 are better protected forever from child 2 molesters. 3 For his efforts to safeguard our 4 right to know, for his commitment to help law 5 enforcement officials remain on top of these 6 criminals that are more likely to repeat their 7 offenses than any other, for his ability to call 8 attention to the needs of our children as the 9 most precious form of life that we know, I ask 10 you to please join me in recognizing Reverend 11 Hind for his efforts today. 12 Reverend Joe Hind. 13 (Applause. ) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 15 recognizes Senator Paterson on the resolution. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 on behalf of Senator Connor, who is out of the 18 chamber and also on behalf of myself, I'd like 19 to welcome the advocates and Maureen Kanka to 20 the chamber and applaud the effort that they 21 have made. It is really a paradox of life that 22 some of the greatest tragedies inspire the 23 victims of those tragedies to do some of the 6561 1 great work that the society really needs. 2 It's a shame often that it takes 3 such a horrible situation that motivates 4 individuals to accomplish all that they have 5 accomplished and to focus our attention on this 6 terrible situation. 7 This is a budget period in our 8 state, and there are so many statistics floating 9 around that sometimes the numbers lose their 10 meaning, but I distinctly heard Senator Skelos 11 say there were 6,154 missing children in this 12 state, 6,000 children missing in this state. It 13 boggles the mind that that could actually be 14 possible. 15 I went away on vacation about a 16 year and a half ago, and I went to visit some 17 friends in San Francisco, California and I was 18 really going to spend the week relaxing, and we 19 heard about the disappearance of a 12-year-old 20 girl in that area, Polly Klas, same type of 21 situation. The eventual predator, who was 22 arrested, turned out to have been a person who 23 had been convicted of similar offenses in the 6562 1 past. 2 I guess when it happens the first 3 time, it's a shame on the one who commits the 4 act, but when it happens more than once, it's 5 really a shame on the society that allows it to 6 happen. 7 We understand that there is 8 legislation before us today that will help to 9 address these problems. In some respects, a few 10 of us will ask some questions not meant to in 11 any way diminish from the strength and the 12 spirit of the legislation, but hopefully just to 13 fine tune it so that it will serve our society 14 better. 15 But all the while, while we may 16 differ on some of the details, we all feel the 17 same way about missing children, and we all have 18 the anguish against those who are so mean and so 19 horrible and would manifest their conduct in 20 such a loathesome and despicable way to pick on 21 innocent children and forever leave their 22 families with the degradation and horror of the 23 events that occur thereafter. 6563 1 And so it is in that spirit that 2 we welcome the advocates here today, and we 3 thank them for the work they've done because 4 they've done probably what we all would wish to 5 do which is to welcome an issue that is greater 6 than our own personal tragedies and think of the 7 other thousands of families who have been 8 befallen by the same thing, and yet from those 9 thousands of families, just a few have come 10 forward hopefully to improve the quality of life 11 in our society and hopefully to prevent these 12 types of tragedies from occurring again. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 15 resolution? 16 Hearing none, the question is on 17 the resolution. All those in favor signify by 18 saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The resolution is unanimously 23 adopted. 6564 1 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 2 He defers to Senator Tully. 3 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 I was out of the chamber at a 6 hearing in the LOB when Senate Calendar Number 7 878 was called. May I have unanimous consent to 8 be recorded in the negative on that bill, 9 please? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Tully 12 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 13 Number 878. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 at this time would you call up Calendar Number 17 877. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title to Calendar Number 877. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 37, 21 Calendar Number 877, by Senator Skelos, Senate 22 Print 11B, an act to amend the Correction Law, 23 in relation to enacting the Sex Offender 6565 1 Registration Act. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos, an explanation of the bill has been 5 asked for by Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 This legislation would enact the 9 Omnibus Sex Offender Registration Act in New 10 York State, and very similar to the "Megan's 11 Law" that was adopted in New Jersey. 12 I'd like to start off by thanking 13 my staff, Tracy Lloyd, Kelly McGuiness and John 14 Conway, for working almost two years with 15 Assemblyman Dan Feldman and Mindy Bockstein, his 16 counsel, in crafting the legislation that is 17 before this Senate chamber today. 18 This has truly been a bipartisan 19 effort. Assemblyman Feldman has stood tall, has 20 worked aggressively on this legislation, and I 21 am hopeful that with passage in the state Senate 22 today, that Speaker Silver will allow this bill 23 to come to the floor for a vote so that we will 6566 1 have the opportunity in New York State to 2 protect our children. 3 In recent years, state 4 legislatures across the country have attempted 5 to strengthen pertinent sex offense laws by 6 requiring released sex offenders to register 7 with law enforcement upon release from jail. 8 For those of you are not familiar with sex 9 offender registration laws, they require 10 offenders to supply their address to state and 11 local enforcement as a means of increasing 12 community protection. 13 Laws in 43 states have been 14 adopted with most occurring since 1985. 25 of 15 the 43 laws have some form of community 16 notification, as does this legislation today. 17 The 43 state registration laws conform in many 18 aspects and certainly our legislation has many 19 aspects of registration and notification. 20 Typically the convicted offender 21 must register upon release from prison, upon 22 being put on probation or parole. Maintenance 23 of the registry is overseen by a state agency, 6567 1 Division of Criminal Justice Systems in our 2 state. Typical info would contain the name, 3 address, fingerprints, date of birth, I.D. 4 numbers, criminal history, employment. Duration 5 is generally ten years or longer. Change of 6 address requirements are included in this 7 legislation. 8 In all cases, the offender is 9 responsible for supplying accurate information 10 and is penalized for non-compliance. Once 11 created, the registry becomes a tool that law 12 enforcement uses to solve or hopefully prevent 13 crimes and, indeed, under the federal crime bill 14 that was passed approximately a year ago, states 15 are required to establish registries or they 16 will lose federal money. 17 The registry provides a readily 18 available list of potential suspects once a sex 19 crime has been committed. In addition, many 20 feel it is also a possible deterrent since 21 offenders know they are being monitored. 22 Registration laws also create, as this law will, 23 legal grounds to hold sex offenders who do not 6568 1 comply with registration and are later found in 2 suspicious circumstances like hanging around 3 schools or playgrounds. If not registered, the 4 offender can be charged and prosecuted. 5 The goals of this legislation can 6 be summed by four simple statements: Sex 7 offenders pose a high risk of reoffending after 8 release of custody. 9 Protecting the public from sex 10 offenders is a primary governmental interest. 11 Government's interest in public safety is more 12 important than the so-called privacy interests 13 of persons convicted of sex offenses, and 14 release of information about sex offenders to 15 public agencies and the general public will 16 assist in protecting the public safety. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 if Senator Skelos would please yield to a 21 question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 6569 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 yields. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: I was 5 wondering if you would go into a little more 6 detail. It would be interesting to hear about 7 the distinction between the level one, level two 8 and level three sexual offenders, particularly 9 the distinction between the individual who might 10 expose themselves outside a playground to 11 children, and the one that would jump over the 12 fence and abduct the children, how we under this 13 legislation are going to treat them. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 15 Paterson, the way this legislation is crafted, 16 the level of the offense -- and, of course, it 17 requires that all sex offenders, whether it's 18 level one, two or three, be required to register 19 for a period of ten years and that a sexually 20 violent predator would be required to register 21 for the rest of their life unless released of 22 this requirement by the section -- the 23 sentencing court at a subsequent date. 6570 1 As you mention, level one, and 2 let me say that all, in my opinion, all sex 3 crimes are offensive, but because of certain 4 guidelines that we've been given by the federal 5 government, we have to attempt to distinguish 6 between the various levels; so you are correct. 7 For example, if level one was a peeping Tom or 8 that type of individual, they would be 9 categorized level one, and there would be no 10 real community notification of this person 11 although you could call the '900' number that 12 will be established and find out, for example, 13 is so and so, who is my -- my son or daughter's 14 camp counselor, give a certain description, 15 certain information to the '900' number, is that 16 person at all in the registry, and the person on 17 the other side of the phone could say either yes 18 or no. That's all, either yes or no. 19 Level two, which would be a 20 higher degree of offense to society when you 21 call the '900' number, you would be entitled 22 once you gave a proscription or the name of the 23 person -- name or proscription of the person, 6571 1 the '900' number would say to you, yes, that 2 person is in the registry level two and, for 3 example, if I made the phone call would say, the 4 person lives in the community of Rockville 5 Centre. There would not be an exact name 6 given. 7 Level three, which is the violent 8 predators, in that instance the information 9 would be forwarded to the local police depart 10 ment; in fact, all the information on all the 11 offenders is forwarded to the local police 12 department, but in this instance, you would have 13 the opportunity upon making a request to the 14 local police department, to find out exactly who 15 this person is and where they reside and, in 16 fact, there will be a registry that's 17 established and the information will be held in 18 your local police department. 19 The purpose for this is to avoid 20 the Megan Kanka tragedy that we saw in New 21 Jersey because, as Mrs. Kanka said to me 22 approximately a month or so ago when we were 23 together, "If I had known this individual lived 6572 1 across the street from me, I would have told my 2 daughter how to protect herself and she would 3 not have been murdered," so that's the purpose 4 of the community notification provisions of this 5 legislation is to help parents protect their 6 children. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: That was an 10 excellent response. Would Senator Skelos yield 11 for another question? 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I do, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 yields. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: One of the 17 major problems involving the sexual offenses 18 that are committed against children are actually 19 coming as much from the home and often the 20 caretaker or some custodial agent even as much 21 as strangers or individuals who live in the 22 neighborhoods. To what extent would we be 23 notifying the neighborhood of the incidents of 6573 1 child sexual abuse which is now estimated to 2 often injure as many as one out of seven women 3 and one out of 12 men in their youth? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Level -- if you 5 were categorized level two or three, in level 6 two, the police department would have the option 7 to notify the community of what they think is 8 appropriate. Level three, they can notify the 9 community plus you have the option to go in and 10 actually look at the file to see what the person 11 looks like and where they live. 12 Also, Senator Paterson, 13 presently, the Division of Parole in their 14 discretion, and we allow this to continue, when 15 an individual, what they consider a violent 16 predator, is released from jail, put on parole, 17 they are presently notifying the school 18 districts in the community where this individual 19 is going to be released so that they can help 20 protect the children for -- from, for example, a 21 pedophile who so often will hang around a school 22 yard looking to pick up young children. 23 The purpose for this is, number 6574 1 one, to protect the children, but also generally 2 when a pedophile is released, one of the 3 conditions of parole, probation, is that they 4 stay away from school yards or other locations 5 where young children may congregate. Therefore, 6 they could be picked up in violation of their 7 parole or their probation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 One last question if Senator 13 Skelos would be willing to yield. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Senator 15 Paterson. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos continues to yield. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: The '900' 19 number, I'm just a little unclear on how it 20 actually operates. You would call and you would 21 give the name of the individual? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: You would give 23 the name of the individual. 6575 1 SENATOR PATERSON: And then at 2 that point you're asking if there had ever been 3 any - 4 SENATOR SKELOS: You would also 5 have to give some sort of description of the 6 individual, whether it's a physical description, 7 whether it's an address that you may know, 8 whether it's a community that you may know, that 9 will give that person sufficient information to 10 believe that this, in fact, is the person you're 11 referring to, so I -- I couldn't just go and 12 say, Is David Paterson on the list, and they 13 would then come back and say yes. There has to 14 be some sort of a description given to the 15 person answering the '900' number. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Eliminating 17 the possibility that two people of the same name 18 would - 19 SENATOR SKELOS: That's the 20 intention of the legislation. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. Then 22 at the point that the information is distrib 23 uted, I assume it's distributed verbally. 6576 1 SENATOR SKELOS: It's distributed 2 verbally over the phone. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: And so there 4 is not necessarily a record of the actual - 5 SENATOR SKELOS: There are 6 records kept. Under federal law '900' numbers 7 are required to give certain information, for 8 example, that there is a child involved, that 9 the phone number will be recorded, it goes on 10 and on, certain requirements. This will have to 11 be done by the '900' number before there could 12 be a charge incurred by the person, so that the 13 number will be recorded in terms of protecting 14 the community also from a person making calls 15 and abusing what the intent of this legislation 16 is also, and plus there are civil penalties if 17 this law is abused from 500 to $1,000. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: The cost to 19 call the '900' number, the benefits from that go 20 to where? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: This would be 22 used by the Division of Criminal Justice Systems 23 to cover the costs of setting up the registry 6577 1 and the community notification process. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: And, finally, 3 Senator, because you've been most gracious on a 4 very difficult subject, the actual fact that an 5 individual made the request, since the 6 information is verbal, then I would assume that, 7 in other words, there would not be any 8 documentation that the request was made, so that 9 the individual who may have absolutely no 10 record, in other words, the camp counselor that 11 does not have such a record, would not have to 12 be a victim of just the gossip or the discussion 13 of the fact that there was an inquiry. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: If they're not 15 -- if they're not on the -- on the list. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Correct. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: No, there's no 18 information given then. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 20 much, Senator. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 22 recognizes Senator DiCarlo. 23 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 6578 1 President. 2 I rise to commend Senator Skelos 3 for this excellent piece of legislation that 4 we're going to pass today, and just a few 5 comments. 6 Government's responsibility is to 7 protect the citizens. We are now 40-some-odd 8 days late on a budget, and it's one of the most 9 important things to everybody to see that this 10 budget is passed, but I would say that this 11 piece of legislation, along with other pieces of 12 legislation where we're trying to protect our 13 citizens and most especially our children, are 14 what is really important in this state. 15 We passed in this house a few 16 weeks ago the Sex Offender Reform Act which 17 would keep these people in prison for longer 18 periods of time. I think it's important that we 19 understand something. Sex offenders cannot be 20 cured. I grow tired of hearing people tell me, 21 Well, once they do their time they have to come 22 out into society again. That might be true for 23 most criminals, but it is not true for sex 6579 1 offenders. 2 This legislation is important 3 because we on the state level have not done what 4 we should have done in terms of punishing sex 5 offenders and keeping sex offenders off our 6 streets. 7 This legislation, by Senator 8 Skelos, is so important again because we have 9 not done our duty in terms of sex offenders. 10 This house has done it. The other chamber has 11 seen fit not to do so. Senator Skelos' 12 legislation is important, as I said, because we 13 have not done our jobs. We have not done our 14 jobs and, if we leave here today and we pat 15 ourselves on the back and we said, All is well 16 and good in this state because we have passed a 17 piece of good legislation, then I think we've 18 missed the point of Senator Skelos' legislation 19 and having some very wonderful people up here 20 today who've had some great tragedies. 21 We have got to finally change the 22 way we run our criminal justice system in this 23 state. We have got to take sex offenders off 6580 1 the streets. We have got to protect the women 2 and children of this state and we've got to stop 3 kidding ourselves. 4 I commend Senator Skelos. This 5 is necessary, but let's wake up and do what is 6 really necessary in this state and that is to 7 protect our people. 8 Thank you. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 DiCarlo, do you yield to a question from Senator 13 Dollinger? 14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 yields. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have a 18 question. Is it your theory then that if, under 19 Senator Skelos' legislation, one who is con 20 victed of a minor sex offense should get life in 21 prison without parole and not come back into the 22 community? 23 SENATOR DiCARLO: That is 6581 1 obviously a ridiculous statement. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, that 3 seems to be - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Dollinger, if you're going to ask a question, 6 please allow the answer to come forth before you 7 interrupt, O.K.? 8 SENATOR DiCARLO: Senator Skelos' 9 legislation is separate from what we're trying 10 to do in his legislation and other legislation. 11 Why it's important we have to do Senator Skelos' 12 legislation is because other states are not 13 doing what we are empowered to do, and that is 14 to keep those sex offenders -- I'm not talking 15 about keeping somebody in prison for the rest of 16 their life for a first offense, I'm talking 17 about those who we know out there are stalking 18 our children and stalking the women to a great 19 extent in this state, be put away for extended 20 periods of time, and those most heinous among 21 them, yes, should be taken off the streets 22 permanently. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: All right. 6582 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section for the purposes of a 4 limited roll call. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect 180 days from the date on 7 which it shall have become law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Wright, how do you vote? 13 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Wright will be recorded in the affirmative. The 16 roll call is withdrawn. We'll return to debate 17 on Calendar Number 877. 18 The Chair will recognize Senator 19 Rath. 20 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 21 President, my colleagues. 22 I rise in support of Senator 23 Skelos' legislation. I'd like to congratulate 6583 1 Senator Skelos and the committee and all the 2 people who worked so hard to pull together this 3 very vital and important piece of legislation. 4 I'd like to thank Mrs. Kanka for 5 being here today. I don't think there's anyone 6 in this room who has not been touched by your 7 story and the term "Megan's Law" will live 8 forever in the state because that's why New York 9 State is moving on this today, for Megan and 10 other children, so on behalf of the children and 11 the families of the 60th District and, of 12 course, all across New York State, we are 13 supporting and I'm sure this will pass this 14 chamber. 15 In 1991, there were in excess of 16 129,000 confirmed cases of sexual abuse in New 17 York State. The average molester, and I think 18 this goes to some of the questions that were 19 raised just now, molests somewhere between 50 20 and 150 children before being caught. This was 21 reported on 20/20 and New York was far behind 22 other states in keeping track of these 23 molesters, the individuals who pray on their 6584 1 communities, that is until today and the passage 2 of this bill will not only bring New York State 3 sex offenders in line with the other states but 4 will restore a sense of sanity to the state's 5 communities. 6 I'd like to share with you a 7 little personal vignette. Several weeks ago 8 former Miss American Marilyn Van Derbur, was in 9 Buffalo to speak about her struggle to overcome 10 the effects of sex abuse as a child. It was 11 hard to believe when she first came out of the 12 closet, as it were, with her story, she's 13 traveling all across the United States - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 15 me, Senator Rath. Can we have a little order in 16 the chamber, please. It's awfully difficult to 17 hear the debate, there's so much noise. If you 18 want to have a conversation with another member 19 or staff, please take it out of the chamber. 20 Excuse the indulgence, Senator 21 Rath. 22 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 6585 1 The recollections of Marilyn Van 2 Derbur were shocking. They are bringing many 3 people across this country as they did in 4 Buffalo, many people across this country to 5 realize the tremendous need there is to enact 6 pieces of legislation such as brought to our 7 attention through "Megan's Law" and through the 8 hard work of Senator Skelos' committee. 9 I congratulate all of you who are 10 involved and I, of course, support this piece of 11 legislation. Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Marcellino, on the bill. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 Mr. President, I commend -- I 17 also commend my good friend and colleague, Dean 18 Skelos, on this very important piece of 19 legislation and the work of his staff. 20 This is a necessary piece of 21 legislation unfortunately. I remember a time 22 when parents could allow their children to play 23 in the front of their house in their front yard 6586 1 and feel free. I remember a time when you could 2 allow your child to walk to school or walk to 3 the local playground and not worry about it. I 4 remember a time when we didn't need to lock 5 fences and lock our gates and lock our doors to 6 our homes. I remember a time when we didn't 7 need burglar alarms in our homes. 8 Unfortunately, today we need all 9 these things. Unfortunately, today parents bond 10 together in car pools to take their children to 11 Little League games and stay there, not just to 12 enjoy the game and to watch their children but 13 because they're fearful that, if they let their 14 children out of their sight, some predator can 15 come in and harm them. 16 This, ladies and gentlemen, my 17 colleagues, is a tragedy. This is a disruption 18 and a destruction of the quality of life in this 19 state. 20 We have to lock school yards at 21 night because predators will be there. Kids 22 cannot play in school yards any more because 23 they have to be kept locked because security 6587 1 require -- requires it to be that way. We can 2 not trust our streets. We cannot trust our 3 communities because we have predators out there, 4 recidivists who go out and repeat the crimes 5 over and over again. 6 This state must pass legislation 7 like this. I urge its passing. I know it will 8 be passed because it's necessary to send a 9 strong message to everyone, to the predators and 10 the parents alike, watch out for your children 11 and to the predators, we will always watch you. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, I urge the 13 passage of this bill. It is a necessary piece 14 of legislation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Nozzolio, on the bill. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 On the measure, I rise to support 20 it. As chairman of the Senate Crime and 21 Corrections Committee, it is my honor to rise in 22 support of this legislation, to protect our 23 neighborhoods and our children from sexual 6588 1 predators. 2 Senator Skelos is to be 3 congratulated and thanked for his leadership in 4 bringing this measure to fruition. Mrs. Kanka 5 is to be thanked for her courage, for being with 6 us today and for her support so that tragedies 7 in the future can be prevented. 8 Ironically, my colleagues, it was 9 a year ago today that a little girl in Rochester 10 was abducted, Kelly Ann Poulton, a year ago 11 abducted, now gone and added to cases like Sarah 12 Ann Wood and Megan Kanka, cases that are 13 tragedies, tragedies though that are not 14 forgotten. We must never forget. We must never 15 cease to remember what happened to these young 16 ladies at the hands of predators and that we 17 must do all we can to support strong measures as 18 Senator Skelos has in this bill, that would 19 protect our neighborhoods, protect our school 20 yards, protect our back yards and protect our 21 homes. 22 As stated by other speakers, this 23 legislation puts New York in the forefront in 6589 1 the area to combat sexual offenders. This 2 legislation is critically important not only for 3 that reason, but to protect our efforts in 4 protecting our communities from these tragedies 5 and to put us in compliance with the federal 6 mandate requiring all such states to adopt a 7 registry before October 1977. 8 The federal crime bill requires 9 all states before that October 1997 date to 10 adopt a registry or risk losing federal grant 11 monies. Protecting the public is our objective 12 certainly, and that is our primary objective in 13 this legislation; but we also must recognize the 14 national scope of this problem and that for us 15 to not enact legislation now, I believe would 16 send a terrible signal to the rest of the nation 17 that New York is sitting on its heels and not 18 getting out into the forefront as it has done in 19 many other areas of legislative history in many 20 other areas of importance to our citizens. We 21 have been in the forefront. 22 It is only a compounding of 23 tragedies that New York is not the first state 6590 1 to adopt such a registry. I'm hopeful that this 2 action will be taken today to, again, put New 3 York where it should be in combatting these 4 heinous offenses and sending a very strong 5 signal to sexual predators that your actions 6 will not be tolerated in New York. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Maziarz, on the bill. 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 I, too, rise in support of this 13 legislation. First, I want to applaud the 14 courage of Mrs. Kanka. She's traveled across 15 this country in order to advocate for this type 16 of legislation. Although Mrs. Kanka has already 17 made the ultimate sacrifice, she has chosen to 18 transform her tragedy into action and into 19 helping others. 20 Senator Skelos and his staff are 21 to be commended for diligently pursuing this 22 legislative effort. There's not a bill, I think 23 of in this very short time that I've been here 6591 1 that I have co-sponsored, that I'm more proud of 2 than this bill today, and I can tell you looking 3 into the future, I think there may not be a bill 4 in my entire career here that I'd be more proud 5 to co-sponsor than this bill. 6 I have to share with you the 7 feelings of the people in my district. They 8 anxiously await this legislation. This past 9 summer it was reported in the local newspaper 10 that 112 sex offenders were paroled in the three 11 counties that I represent. Painfully aware of 12 the Kankas' tragedy in New Jersey, the people of 13 those three counties rose up in indignation that 14 nothing was being done in the state of New 15 York. 16 I think that it's -- it does not 17 speak well of the legislative process that it 18 took the state of New Jersey only 89 days to 19 enact this type of legislation. 43 states have 20 already enacted this type of legislation, and we 21 all know that this bill hopefully, this piece of 22 legislation, is going to be passed here today 23 and sent over to the Assembly, and we can only 6592 1 hope that the leadership in the Assembly will 2 bring this bill out of committee, place it on 3 the floor and allow the membership of the 4 Assembly to vote on it because we also all know 5 that, if this bill is reported to the floor of 6 the Assembly, it's going to pass overwhelmingly 7 and it's a tribute to Assemblyman Feldman and to 8 Senator Skelos that this bill is out there 9 today. 10 The people of the state of New 11 York want this legislation. It's an insult to 12 the people for any leadership in the other house 13 of this Legislature to hold this legislation up, 14 and again I want to commend Senator Skelos and 15 Assemblyman Feldman and, like my colleague, 16 Senator Nozzolio, as a member of the Crime 17 Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee, I 18 would just like to have everyone remember that 19 today is the one year anniversary of the 20 disappearance of Kelly Ann Poulton of Rochester, 21 and you could all see that beautiful little 22 girl's face when you stop at the Thruway rest 23 stops on your way home, and when you look at 6593 1 that little girl's face, she's telling you to 2 vote for this bill. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 You know, usually we try to be 9 objective about these bills and not get personal 10 experience and emotion involved, but I have to 11 say something. I have to say this to Mrs. 12 Kanka. 13 As I've said to many of you here 14 and for those who were guests I'm the Democratic 15 leader in this Senate, and I represent part of 16 Brooklyn and Manhattan but, as I've said to many 17 of you, I wasn't born in the city. The fact is 18 I was born in Hamilton Township, New Jersey and 19 when I was four years old, we moved way out to 20 Mercerville, and I was raised there and I was 21 there Sunday visiting my parents, and this case 22 obviously, this tragedy, affected me so much 23 personally because, you know, living in the City 6594 1 as many of you know, I'm a father, I have a 5 2 year-old, a 7-year-old. You know, they look 3 forward to going to Nana's and Pop-Pop's in 4 Mercerville, because they can run around there 5 in a way that they can't in the City, in a way 6 that you can't leave them for a second on a 7 sidewalk without your eye on them, and indeed we 8 were there last July, saw the posters. Megan 9 was missing at the time, the last 4th of July. 10 We always go to Mercerville for 4th of July 11 because it's my father's birthday, so it's a big 12 family occasion. We went to Mercer County Park 13 to watch the fireworks. I guess because when I 14 first moved to Mercerville it was way out in 15 Mercerville, it was the same township, the same 16 town but it was way out. The church was a tiny 17 little church then. The fields all around, I 18 remember shooting rabbits in those fields, but 19 now they're houses because Mercerville has 20 grown, but it's still a place of green and 21 safety; at least that's the feeling, you never 22 -- you know, you never get over that feeling 23 when, from the time you were 4 years old until 6595 1 you were 18 years old, you could ride your bike 2 anywhere, walk anywhere. 3 I remember going to kindergarten 4 in Mercerville school, and my mother took me the 5 first day to make sure I knew the way and I 6 walked alone after that, and there were no 7 sidewalks in Mercerville then and we were taught 8 to walk to the left facing the traffic, with 9 trees and woods along the side. 10 So I get that feeling when I go 11 there, not just that it's home but, you know, 12 it's not the hustle and bustle of the City where 13 I've lived for many, many years now and to my 14 children it's just gee, green open fields and, 15 you know, you can go kick a soccer ball around 16 and it seems very, very safe. 17 I have to say my mother has 18 warned me in past years, It's not like when you 19 were a kid. Kids don't walk to school, the 20 parents drive them to school, but her saying it 21 wasn't like seeing this tragedy. Literally 22 tomorrow's May 25th. May 25th, 1952 I made my 23 first communion in Our Lady of Sorrows Church, 6596 1 the church from where Megan was buried in her 2 first communion dress. 3 So in a very personal way this 4 brought home to me something that those of us in 5 the City know every day, it's not safe. The 6 streets aren't safe; it's not a safe world out 7 there and there are predators that we have to do 8 something about. Our first obligation is to 9 protect our children and our families, and the 10 -- this bill, I think, is a good start. 11 I look at this bill as someone 12 who represents a very urban area, and I say 13 regrettably it won't do that much for the City. 14 When you live on a block with 6,000 people on 15 it, notification, registration, you know, it's 16 still hard to figure out who the threats are, 17 and so I guess we have to persist in viewing 18 everyone regrettably, and it's hard to bring up 19 kids that way because you have to teach them not 20 to trust. You have to teach them everybody is a 21 potential threat, but the fact of the matter is 22 we have to protect as best we can and certainly 23 there are communities throughout New York State 6597 1 that we all have an obligation to, where this 2 protection could be much more real than it will 3 be in the City, and -- and I know, Maureen Kanka 4 has been around the country taking action, 5 urging that other children be protected, and I 6 -- I certainly congratulate her for that, and 7 for turning her pain into something that could 8 benefit everyone else, really all the children. 9 I would urge all of us really to 10 think of other ways that we can protect children 11 from these predators, that we can protect 12 children from people who, you know, whatever 13 illness or however you want to describe it, are 14 a threat to other people, and really have to be 15 removed from -- from our neighborhoods and our 16 streets. 17 So I am supporting this bill. 18 You know, I never -- I never grew up to realize 19 my boyhood aspiration of being a member of the 20 Mercerville Volunteer Fire Department. I have 21 taken my kids over there to look at the engines 22 when we go over there on week ends, but here I 23 am having failed in that aspiration and I am 6598 1 only very humbly grateful that this legislation 2 has come out and that I can add my voice in 3 support. 4 Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Mendez on the bill. 7 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 8 also do want to rise in support of this bill, 9 and in doing so, I must congratulate Senator 10 Skelos for taking the time and working great to 11 make this bill possible. 12 I also want to join the others 13 that have -- all my other colleagues that also 14 have seen the reality through which Mrs. Kanka 15 has gone through and what she's been able to 16 achieve as she has been working through a 17 personal family, and this bill brings to mind 18 something that I feel -- a problem that I feel 19 very strongly about and I have been expressing 20 here at the Senate for a while. 21 The reality number one, there is 22 no cure for sex offenders. There might be a 23 couple little studies, but forget it, no cure at 6599 1 this point for sexual offenders. The rapist, 2 unfortunately, will end up being a rapist. Sex 3 offenders, even if they are just child 4 molesters, they might start molesting a child 5 today, molesting another child tomorrow and 6 eventually they increase the violence of the 7 crime against the children. 8 So that this bill really 9 represents a serious effort by New York State to 10 start protecting the children. Do you know that 11 in the public schools, one out of four children 12 will be sexually molested? We haven't dealt 13 with that problem yet. 14 There was a magnificent article 15 in the New York Times recently, two or three 16 days ago, stating that in the city of New York 17 -- in the city of New York, children are being 18 molested in our public schools and primarily the 19 ones that are being molested or sexually as 20 saulted are children who are in special educa 21 tion,. 22 Who are the children -- most of 23 the children in special education in the public 6600 1 school system of New York City? Puerto Ricans, 2 Hispanics and African-American, but what really 3 -- what really is uncomprehensible to me is to 4 read that one school district discovers a 5 teacher that has sexually molested a child. You 6 know what they do? They stay very quiet. They 7 change that teacher to another -- they transfer 8 that teacher to another school, and they do not 9 state -- they do not say to the receiving school 10 district that that person over there has 11 violated in a most horrendous fashion the trust 12 of that child -- that that child has towards 13 authority. 14 I feel that, if people do take 15 all these 44 of these bills for registry of sex 16 offenders that have been passed already in 43 17 states, if they are taken to the Supreme Court 18 and they say -- and the ruling comes down that 19 they violate the rights of a sex offender, then 20 I think that if that occurs, we will have to go 21 back to the drawing board and keep on and on and 22 on because in the final analysis, Mr. President, 23 the primary responsibility of government has to 6601 1 be the protection of children, families and the 2 safety of all its citizens. 3 So to me, from molesters to the 4 most repeated felons in the most heinous sex 5 crimes, I say let's put them away forever. 6 Let's put them away forever because they do not 7 deserve to be given another opportunity to be 8 out in the street and hurting in a horrendous 9 fashion, a child or woman. 10 My congratulations again to you, 11 Senator Skelos, and to Mrs. Kanka. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Volker on the bill. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 16 first of all, I want to congratulate Senator 17 Skelos and his staff for a tremendous amount of 18 work and I -- as chairman of the Codes 19 Committee, I'm well aware of the complexity and 20 the difficulty in dealing with issues of this 21 nature, and one of the things that I think is 22 most difficult sometimes is dealing with the - 23 some of the emotional trauma that the families 6602 1 and the victims of these kind of crimes have to 2 deal with and just -- just dealing with the 3 issues involved here sometimes can be very 4 wearing. 5 I know that we held -- the Senate 6 and the Assembly held hearings over the last few 7 years on issues involving sex crimes and some of 8 the members of my committee, when we talked 9 afterwards, said that some of the testimony was 10 maybe some of the most difficult that we had 11 dealt with in all the years that a number of the 12 people had been members of the committee and 13 part of this Senate. 14 Let me just say that this bill 15 does go a long way toward beginning to deal with 16 many of these issues, and I think as many of the 17 people in this chamber know that we have been 18 examining sexual predator legislation for 19 several years. In fact, our committee and 20 Senator Skelos and myself and a number of people 21 as part of the Senate are looking at even going 22 further on issues of incarceration and 23 treatment, and so forth. 6603 1 I guess as somebody who came from 2 a law enforcement background and, in fact, as 3 some of you know a state trooper and myself led 4 the largest rape investigation in upstate New 5 York's history a number of years ago, and 6 although our investigation was primarily - 7 obviously involved adults and the person that we 8 finally did convict who eventually was involved 9 in two other murders and was eventually killed 10 himself, the chilling part of that investiga 11 tion, I think, was the numbers of people -- and 12 this was in the '60s -- the numbers of people 13 who were out there who were sexual -- could be 14 classified as sexual predators, both of adults 15 and of children. 16 Another thing that I think has 17 struck a number of us is that sometimes I think 18 we try to separate sexual predators involved 19 with children with adults, and that's something 20 that you really have to be careful of. 21 There was a multiple -- group of 22 multiple murders in the Rochester area involving 23 an individual, and the real reason that the law 6604 1 enforcement people didn't zero in on him was 2 because he had been convicted of child 3 molestation, in fact, actually a child killing, 4 and the feeling of the parole people was that he 5 was not a -- would not be a -- likely to be 6 involved in sexual "predating" on adults, but 7 that, of course, obviously was not true. The 8 individual killed seven or eight people, if I'm 9 not mistaken in the Rochester area and was 10 eventually convicted and is now serving a - 11 well, what amounts to -- he is serving a prison 12 term that he will never get out. 13 So there's no question that this 14 legislation is a huge step, I think, and I 15 commend Senator Skelos and all of the people 16 that have worked on this bill, and I can only 17 say that I'm convinced that this house -- and I 18 know Dan Feldman in the Assembly and a number of 19 people in the Assembly want to move even further 20 in dealing with this issue that probably is one 21 of the most critical issues of our time in 22 dealing with a society and wrestling with the 23 issues of protection, not only of our children, 6605 1 but of the very society itself. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Marchi on the bill. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 5 certainly want to compliment Senator Skelos on 6 the tremendously fine work that he has done, 7 along with his staff, and Dan Feldman over in 8 the Assembly who is a fine legislator. It seems 9 that this cooperation has has been very 10 beneficial and responsive to the concerns 11 presented by our good friends who have come over 12 from the state of New Jersey and argues 13 persuasively certainly for the action that is 14 proposed to us today. 15 I am -- I do have some concern, 16 however, and if I might be reassured on that 17 point, it -- and I was questioning whether I 18 ought to raise it -- the subject at all, but 19 knowing how the quixotic nature of judicial 20 interpretation is, I thought I might share it 21 with you and perhaps you have some of the 22 answers to this. 23 I don't know if you recall some 6606 1 time ago, some months ago or maybe a year ago we 2 had the issue of rape, and the presiding justice 3 of the Court of Appeals spoke -- well, not this 4 one, a prior one -- spoke of gender neutrality. 5 I simply could not fathom gender neutrality 6 beyond -- or the application of the law beyond 7 that which I had learned years ago in law school 8 that a woman could be indicted for aiding the 9 commission of a rape, but there was no 10 provision, and the law itself was not gender 11 neutral. 12 I believe that we may have 13 addressed this in legislation to make it gender 14 neutral, and I was stupefied because I cannot 15 imagine rape in this classic sense being 16 committed by a woman. 17 Here, the approach is more solid 18 because in the definition it speaks -- the 19 definition is sex offender, and it's described 20 here, includes "any person who is convicted" of 21 any of the crimes, so I think we're on fairly 22 solid law here, but then if you plunge on, "that 23 any person happens to be his conviction, he 6607 1 resided", and again "for a sex offender in which 2 he is required", so the reference to person is 3 that -- that person is "he". 4 To me, in the classic sense, that 5 would mean "he" in a generic way describing the 6 human species. Whether we ought to fortify this 7 as a matter of legislative intent while we 8 deliberate this and just say into the record 9 that we are aware of this and that what is 10 controlling is the definition and its reference 11 to "he" and "his" is generic in sense, in that 12 it refers to the human species, because I simply 13 don't have that blind trust that some quixotic 14 prior justice will come out and perhaps acquit a 15 woman who is a pedophile or perhaps even say 16 that the law itself is flawed because it is not 17 gender neutral. 18 The circumstances of the case 19 that came up was rather somewhat different from 20 -- from the -- it had complicating factors, and 21 I wish I could remember them all, and I think I 22 could distinguish it to some extent, but I would 23 be far more comfortable if the record reflected 6608 1 the fact that what controls is the definition 2 and that the reference to "he" and "his" is 3 generic in nature and just applies to the human 4 species irrespective. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Abate is at a meeting. We'll pass her 7 temporarily. 8 Senator Dollinger on the bill. 9 Senator Leichter, why do you 10 rise? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 12 with your permission, Senator Abate and I were 13 both in meetings and she's still in that meeting 14 and I believe she's been moved to the end of the 15 list and said that I could take her slot and 16 then we'll change and I'll go back to the 17 meeting. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter, we also have Senator Leibell and 21 Senator Libous who are ahead of you. If they 22 yield to you, that's fine. 23 Gentlemen? 6609 1 Senator Leibell is nodding yes. 2 Senator Libous, he's nodding 3 yes. It may cost you something later on, 4 Senator Libous is saying, but the Chair 5 recognizes Senator Leichter on the bill. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 while I think you've always done a very good 8 job, I'm pleased to see that you felt it 9 necessary to call on the distinguished members 10 of the judiciary to help you in performing your 11 awesome tasks, and you couldn't have chosen a 12 better person than the distinguished judge and 13 our former colleague and it's certainly good to 14 see him. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 If Senator Skelos will be good 17 enough to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Senator yields. 6610 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 2 me first join with the other colleagues here 3 today that I have heard commend you for the work 4 that you've done and the very assiduous and very 5 sincere way that you've dealth obviously with 6 not only a heart-wrenching problem, but with one 7 that all of us want to find some way to provide 8 the maximum protection to the public consistent 9 with constitutional guarantees and other matters 10 of public safety. 11 I just have a couple of 12 questions. One is it's my recollection that 13 there have been one or two decisions by, I 14 believe it was a federal judiciary -- it may 15 also have been the state judiciary in New Jersey 16 declaring parts of the "Megan Law" there 17 unconstitutional, is that correct? 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 if I could respond to Senator Leichter. There 20 have been several court decisions in New Jersey, 21 and obviously the whole aspect of a registry has 22 been challenged in other states, and in no 23 instance has a registry been declared 6611 1 unconstitutional. 2 What the New Jersey court ruled 3 -- the federal court, is that in the New Jersey 4 legislation, there was a requirement that any 5 individual that had even been convicted of a sex 6 offense -- this would be a person already 7 released from jail, no longer on probation, no 8 longer on parole, New Jersey's law required that 9 they still have to register and where 10 appropriate, the community be notified. 11 A lower federal court declared 12 that aspect of it unconstitutional, although I 13 think their decision has been stayed by an 14 intermediate appellate court. 15 We do not have that reach-back 16 provision in our legislation. Our legislation 17 would reach back in instances where a sex 18 offender is presently in jail, on parole or 19 probation and say they would be required to meet 20 all the registration and notification provisions 21 of this new law when implemented 120 days from 22 the effective date. 23 New Jersey state court I believe 6612 1 has ruled part of that aspect as being 2 unconstitutional. We do have -- and that is on 3 appeal -- we do have a separability clause in 4 this legislation, so that if any aspect of it is 5 declared unconstitutional -- although I believe 6 it will not happen because we have all the due 7 process provisions and I think our law will 8 stand muster either in the federal courts or the 9 state courts -- we have a separability clause 10 that would just eliminate that provision of the 11 legislation, and I do believe the challenge in 12 Jersey was as to the notification part, and 13 Attorney General Reno, President Clinton have 14 filed an amicus curiae brief in favor of the New 15 Jersey legislation saying that this is 16 appropriate community notification provisions. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 18 you would continue to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 21 (Senator Skelos nods head.) 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I 23 understand your answer, we do have in this bill 6613 1 a reach-back provision. In other words, if 2 there is somebody presently who is on parole and 3 he has been convicted of a sex offense, one of 4 those that is enumerated in your bill, he would 5 now have to register and he would be subject to 6 all the dissemination of information that's 7 provided for in your bill. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, we do. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: So, in that 10 sense, assuming that the decision by the -- both 11 -- and I think that applies both to the federal 12 decision and the state decision, are upheld that 13 that part of your bill would be unconstitution 14 al, although as you point out, you have a 15 separability provision in there. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: The federal 17 court -- just as a reminder, Senator Leichter, 18 in New Jersey, the person was not on parole, was 19 no longer incarcerated nor on probation. That's 20 what the federal court in New Jersey said was 21 improper. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: And correct me 23 if I'm wrong, I think the constitutional 6614 1 impairment that the courts saw is that it was, 2 in effect, an ex-post punishment, because 3 somebody had been convicted under a law which 4 provided you would be sent to jail for a certain 5 number of years, you might be subject to -- then 6 to parole and whatever the supervision is there, 7 but not provisions that are now part of the 8 Megan Law, and that was the constitutional - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: That is not in 10 our legislation. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, that's 12 what I'm trying to understand, because if 13 somebody who was convicted, let's say ten years 14 ago, of a sexual offense, that person is now out 15 on parole, he would be subject to the 16 registration provisions of your bill and the 17 other provisions relating to the dissemination 18 of that information. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Again, if a 20 person is no longer under any type of 21 supervision by the state of New York, whether 22 it's being incarcerated, on probation or parole, 23 our legislation does not affect that - 6615 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand 2 that. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Go on. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Somebody who 5 was convicted ten years ago - 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Right. Our 7 legislation, if the person is in jail, on parole 8 or probation, yes, they would be required to 9 register and when appropriate, there would be 10 community notification, but I believe that it 11 will stand constitutional muster because of the 12 fact that they are still under the supervision 13 of the state, and in the event that the courts 14 ever do declare it unconstitutional, we do have 15 a separability clause in this legislation so 16 that it all won't fall. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. 18 Senator, one of the bases of this legislation 19 and the "Megan Law" -- and I certainly heard my 20 colleagues address it today, and that is the 21 belief, the assumption and maybe the fact, that 22 persons who have committed sexual offenses are 23 much more likely to commit that offense again, 6616 1 and I have no reason, you know, to challenge it 2 or doubt it, but I don't know whether anybody 3 has given us the actual statistics, if they 4 exist, to as what the recidivism rate is for 5 sexual offenders as against the criminal pop... 6 the other criminal population, if you will. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. Senator 8 Leichter, there are studies and statistics that 9 show upwards of 40 percent of pedophiles will 10 repeat their offense, upwards of 40 percent will 11 repeat their offense, and unlike most other 12 criminals, as they grow older, for example, your 13 burglar, the desire to commit that crime 14 lessens. With pedophiles, as they get older, 15 the desire to commit that horrendous act does 16 not diminish, and you never know when they're 17 going to want to commit that horrendous act once 18 again. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I accept the 20 figures on the -- on the pedophiles, although I 21 would be interested in the study that came to 22 that conclusion of 40 percent, but is that true 23 for some of the other sexual offenses that are 6617 1 included in your bill? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: We had one study 3 concluded that child molesters' recidivism rate 4 was 31 percent within ten years after release 5 and nearly 50 percent over the 24-year period of 6 the study. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: And who made 8 that study? 9 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not sure but 10 we can get that to your office. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Because I 12 think it's - 13 SENATOR SKELOS: You know what, 14 Senator Leichter, it's the Washington Institute 15 of Public Policies. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't know 17 who they are, but it may be a perfectly good 18 study, I just have no way of knowing. 19 I thank Senator Skelos. 20 Mr. President, just very briefly 21 on the - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter, on the bill. 6618 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- on the 2 bill. 3 What comes to mind is that 4 expression that we learned in law school that 5 tough -- tough cases end up making bad law, and 6 I don't mean to apply that broadly to this bill 7 because I think there's much in there that I 8 think is valuable. I certainly think a central 9 registry makes sense. Apart from the fact that 10 we're required to do it under federal law, it 11 certainly should be done. I think providing 12 information to the police departments certainly 13 makes sense. 14 What concerns and bothers me is 15 the public dissemination, and I realize that in 16 some respects it is the very heart of the "Megan 17 Law" which is really that the public needs to 18 know because the public has to take action to 19 protect itself, and I'm bothered about that 20 aspect of it, and I think we've seen situations 21 in Jersey which -- where there's been 22 vigilantism, mistakes, other situations that 23 really raise at least a question in my mind 6619 1 whether that public dissemination on balance 2 serves its purpose, and it doesn't do more 3 harm. 4 I yield. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Let me just 6 comment on that, Senator Leichter. 7 Obviously, we do not condone any 8 type of vigilante activity. Mrs. Kanka, again 9 approximately a month or two months ago when we 10 last met -- and my numbers aren't going to be 11 exactly correct, but from what I can recall, she 12 mentioned at that time that there had been 13 approximately 40 notifications in New Jersey of 14 which in two instances there were problems, and 15 those individuals that committed the vigilante 16 activity are being prosecuted under the laws of 17 that state, and it would be my hope that, number 18 one, there be no vigilantism. Number two, if 19 there is, that they be agressively prosecuted, 20 but even more important is that we have an 21 opportunity through this legislation to protect 22 our children and to protect the families of the 23 state of New York to not have to go through the 6620 1 tragedy of Mrs. Kanka. 2 Let me just -- if I could. In 3 Binghamton, New York -- why this legislation is 4 important, Senator Leichter -- there was a 5 Sherry Lindsay, who was the daughter of a David 6 Lindsay, a retired Binghamton police officer. 7 She was lured into the house of a convicted sex 8 offender while delivering newspapers trying to 9 make a little extra money. She was held in the 10 basement for three days before he finally killed 11 her. Talking to her father, he said to me, had 12 the police or her father known that this 13 convicted, released sex offender had lived 14 within that community, they probably would have 15 saved her life, because this is one of the first 16 houses they would have gone to, would have been 17 those who had been convicted of some sort of sex 18 offense, and that's part of the reason for the 19 registry is to help people -- the police 20 investigate crimes and save children's life. 21 Arthur Shallcross was convicted 22 of a sexual offense in Watertown, released, went 23 to Rochester where he brutally murdered a number 6621 1 of women. Had the Rochester authorities known 2 of his presence there, perhaps many lives would 3 have been saved. 4 This is the purpose of the 5 legislation, to save lives. That's the primary 6 purpose. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I -- Senator 8 Skelos, let me say, I have no reason to doubt. 9 In fact, I know as a fact and I so stated that 10 this legislation is put forward with the very 11 best of motivations, and there's no question 12 about that. Also, for you to get up and say 13 that you don't condone vigilantism, that's a 14 given, and obviously your record in this state 15 and in this Legislature will make -- will assure 16 everybody that this legislation doesn't have 17 that intent, and so there's no question about 18 that, but the point and the issue is whether, 19 nevertheless, that potential exists. 20 The second point you made really 21 deals with or addresses what I see are merit in 22 this bill, which is the central registry and 23 advising the police departments. Now, all of 6622 1 the examples you gave dealt with having the 2 police informed. I favor that. I favor the 3 central registry. My problem is the public 4 dissemination, and I can see to some extent and 5 I realize that that is one of the aspects of the 6 "Megan Law". Let the public know so that they 7 can inform their children that they can take 8 action to protect themselves, which I think has 9 a certain validity. 10 I think that's got to be balanced 11 against the risk, even though you certainly 12 don't encourage it and, in fact, discourage it, 13 of vigilantism, of creating anxiety, creating 14 fear, some of the things that have happened in 15 New Jersey that have been unfortunate. 16 So if I could put it in the form 17 of a question, give you a chance to answer, 18 Senator, how important is the public 19 dissemination? How important is that '900' 20 number? How important is it allowing people to 21 know that somebody living in their community is 22 a sexual -- or somebody that has been convicted 23 of a sexual offense? And why not just limit 6623 1 that information to the central registry and to 2 the police? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: The example is 4 sitting right over there -- Mrs. Kanka. The 5 police may have known that that murderer was 6 living in the community, but I would have 7 preferred to have her daughter living today 8 rather than the police having to investigate a 9 murder once it occurred knowing that a person 10 lived at that address. So Mrs. Kanka is an 11 example of why parents should be notified. I 12 want parents to know so they can protect their 13 children and, yes, I do want the police to know 14 where the person lives to help them investigate. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: As I said, 16 Senator, I understand that that is the basis of 17 the "Megan Law". 18 SENATOR SKELOS: That's the 19 basis. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: It, in effect, 21 arms the public with information so they can 22 protect themselves, and my concern about this 23 and my uncertainty, frankly, about this bill is 6624 1 whether that -- how valuable that information 2 is. I'm sure that you can point to some cases 3 where it would have made all the difference. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 5 Leichter, I'm giving you one perfect example. 6 Mrs. Kanka's daughter is dead, brutally 7 murdered. If she had known that this individual 8 lived across the street from her, she would have 9 protected her child and Megan Kanka would be 10 alive today. There's your example. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand 12 that, Senator, and I accept -- I accept what you 13 -- I accept what you say, and even as much as, 14 you know, we have the greatest sympathy and 15 sorrow that we share with Mrs. Kanka, we 16 obviously still have to explore this bill to see 17 -- I'm sure you don't want to pass it just on 18 emotionalism, Senator, and I know that's not 19 your purpose. I would like to deal with whether 20 this law is really in the long run going to be 21 of benefit to the people of the state of New 22 York. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 6625 1 Leichter. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Skelos, are you asking Senator Leichter to 4 yield? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: I apologize. I 6 should be - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter, do you yield to a question from 9 Senator Skelos? The Senator yields. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: This legislation 11 has been worked on for close to two years. We 12 have worked closely with Mrs. Kanka. We've 13 worked closely with the Division of Criminal 14 Justice Systems in New York State. We've worked 15 closely with counsels. We've contacted other 16 states. It's not something that I drafted just 17 yesterday and I'm putting out on the floor 18 today. There has been close to two years of 19 work on this legislation and, in fact, I don't 20 know if you remember last year the Senate 21 unanimously passed a registry act which, 22 unfortunately, your good friends in the Assembly 23 did not give the opportunity to bring up to a 6626 1 vote on the floor. Hopefully, this year with 2 the great sponsorship of Assemblyman Feldman, 3 this legislation will be voted on. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may just 5 finally, Senator -- and if you want to take this 6 in the form of a question, that's fine. I 7 just - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: If Senator 11 Leichter would just like to conclude, I won't 12 take it in the form of the question. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. I will 14 conclude just by reading - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter on the bill. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I would just 18 conclude by reading from the memorandum in 19 opposition from the Women's State Bar 20 Association, certainly an organization whose 21 record for concern of victims, for trying to 22 achieve the very same aim and goal that you 23 have, Senator, that I have, and I think that 6627 1 everybody here shares, but I think it is 2 something that's important to consider and, 3 Senator, you say, "I have worked on this bill 4 for two years" as if, you know, bills are like 5 wine, they get better with age or the older they 6 are, the better they must be. You and I know 7 we've had bills before that have been around for 8 ten years that are terribly flawed, so I don't 9 deny the fact that you've worked hard on this. 10 I don't deny the fact that a lot of people who 11 are very concerned with this or have even had 12 some terrible personal experience with this have 13 worked on it, but that in itself doesn't 14 preclude us from looking at the specific 15 provisions to see if they make sense. 16 I just want to put on the record 17 and leave with you this objection from the 18 Women's State Bar Association, because I think 19 they have analyzed the bill carefully and, as I 20 do, they agree with the central registry. They 21 agree with informing the police. The issue is 22 the public dissemination, and they say, and I 23 quote, "However, we object to any public access 6628 1 to this registry. We specifically disagree with 2 the community notification mechanism set forth 3 in this bill and we have grave concerns about 4 the due process implication of certain other 5 aspects of the bill, including the breadth of 6 its coverage, the unworkably vague definitions 7 upon which it relies, the application of its 8 terms to those convicted prior to enactment and 9 the reliability of its core premise that the 10 risk of future dangerousness may be accurately 11 assessed." 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger on the bill. 15 Senator Montgomery, why do you 16 rise? 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 18 President, is it possible for me to just ask a 19 quick question of the sponsor of this 20 legislation? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 22 been very lenient from the Chair, Senator, but 23 we have -- we have a huge list of people who 6629 1 have been sitting in their chairs waiting to 2 speak. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I 4 understand, Mr. President. I just - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So it 6 probably would be considered to be a little out 7 of order, if you don't mind. I mean, I have 8 Senator Abate ahead of you, Senator Dollinger, 9 Senator Leibell, Senator Libous, Senator Waldon, 10 Senator Hoblock, Senator Saland and Senator 11 Jones who have all been sitting here very 12 patiently waiting to speak. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I 14 understand. My question would just require a 15 yes or no answer, if the Senator - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos, do you yield to one question which 18 requires a yes or no answer from Senator 19 Montgomery? 20 SENATOR SKELOS: As long as none 21 of the individuals on the list object, I'll be 22 happy to answer yes or no. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 6630 1 Yes. Senator Skelos, will this 2 legislation protect children such as the ones 3 who are visiting us today from PS 56 and 4 District 13 in my district? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, it will. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 9 you, Senator Montgomery. 10 Senator Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple 13 questions? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Dollinger for a 16 question? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, let 21 me preface my questions by saying I think there 22 are many good things in this bill and I intend 23 to vote for it. I just want to make sure I 6631 1 understand how a couple parts of it work. 2 The determination of the level of 3 offender, my understanding is will be made by 4 court at the time of sentencing. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And that 7 would be - 8 SENATOR SKELOS: It will be -- if 9 a person is put on probation, it will be deter 10 mined by the court at the time of sentencing. 11 If the person is sentenced to jail or eventually 12 is paroled prior to that release, the Board of 13 Examiners of sex offenders which is established 14 under this legislation will review the case and 15 make a recommendation to the sentencing court as 16 to at what level this person should be categor 17 ized. Then the sentencing court will make a 18 determination based on this recommendation 19 whether it's one, two or three. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 21 Mr. President, just a couple questions on the 22 process. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure. 6632 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos continues to yield. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The -- the 4 board recommendation prior to the release from 5 prison will include, as I understand it, evi 6 dence and information acquired during the prison 7 term about the prospects for rehabilitation or 8 other change, and I know there's an extensive 9 discussion about the factors, but that will be 10 part of it, and the -- the determination by the 11 judge will be made upon notice to the defendant, 12 the accused, the prisoner, and he will have an 13 opportunity to be heard. It will be a full - 14 fully litigated opportunity to resolve factual 15 issues or legal issues. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Those due 17 process provisions are provided for. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Is - 19 do you know whether the bill makes any provision 20 for counsel for the released person? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, it does. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It does. The 23 public defender will pick up that cost? 6633 1 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be 2 assigned counsel as any other case if it's 3 appropriate. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 5 Because you certainly would have a very unbal 6 anced hearing if you had the board's determina 7 tion all the way to the correctional department 8 and then an inmate who is still in prison has no 9 access to funds. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be 11 assigned counsel. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 13 Two, the bill -- what does the 14 bill provide as far as the penalty for failing 15 to register? 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Failing to 17 register? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: M-m h-m-m. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Failure to 20 register would be in the first instance a "D" 21 mis... "A" misdemeanor. Second time would be a 22 "D" felony. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 6634 1 There's also language in the bill -- again, 2 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Skelos 3 will continue to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator continues to yield. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: There are 11 provisions in there that will relate to change 12 of address if, during the course of time in the 13 year period between registrations, the -- the 14 accused changes his address, he would have to 15 then -- that activates a new notification 16 period. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, it does. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Two 19 other observations, again through you, Mr. 20 President, if the sponsor will continue to 21 yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos, do you continue to yield? We have a lot 6635 1 of visitors coming and going, Senator Skelos. I 2 think that's more the noise than anything else. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does the bill 4 provide for a uniform system of notification to 5 the police? The reason why I ask is because we 6 had an episode in my community in the 54th 7 District involving the city of Rochester in 8 which the Division of Parole gave the city of 9 Rochester only -- Police Department only 36 10 hours notice of the fact that they were placing 11 someone in the community and, frankly, gave the 12 notice in writing by slipping it under the door 13 of the Genesee substation for the police 14 department at 6:00 o'clock on a Friday night. 15 Frankly, I think both the mayor and the police 16 chief in the city of Rochester were rightfully 17 upset that this very important community notice 18 was being sort of slipped under the door late at 19 night. Is there a uniform system of notice? 20 SENATOR SKELOS: The notification 21 process in each community will be determined by 22 the local police department. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So 6636 1 that will be done in conjunction with the board 2 -- the Division of Parole, the Board of 3 Examiners that will deal with the - 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- the 6 greeting and the court system and the police 7 department. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So 10 there is a flexibility in there for police 11 departments to set up their own system how they 12 get the notice and what they do. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, there is. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One final 15 question through you, Mr. President, if the - 16 if the sponsor will continue to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Skelos, to one more question? 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, this 23 bill does half of the empowering of the 6637 1 community. It tells them and gives them access 2 to information. Do you at this point have any 3 -- any plan or any intention for giving the 4 community the ability to do something with this 5 information; and I only raise that issue 6 because, in my community's experience with this, 7 the community gets the information, rises up and 8 demands that certain things be done by the 9 police department, by the community and, 10 frankly, the message is clearly "We don't want 11 this person in our community. We want them to 12 go somewhere else." 13 My question really deals with 14 where is that "somewhere else"? How do we deal 15 with the issue of where we finally place these 16 people who have very significant socially 17 unacceptable behavior, dangerous behavior, and 18 how do we handle that problem, the bigger 19 problem in the next page of this which is we 20 tell the community; we let them know. And do we 21 give them a remedy? Do we give them anything 22 that says "We're going to take the next step and 23 find an appropriate location"? How do we deal 6638 1 with that? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Generally, the 3 Division of Parole will help make a 4 determination where the individual should go. 5 Again, Senator Dollinger, the 6 notification provision is intended to protect 7 and inform parents to help them protect 8 themselves. That's the intention of it. If it 9 presents a hardship for the pedophile -- I'm 10 more concerned about the child than the 11 pedophile. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President, on the bill. 14 I agree with that conclusion. I 15 do, however -- in my own experience with this 16 problem, I think that the question becomes where 17 do we go? And I agree it's a hardship, but - 18 and I agree it doesn't certainly overweigh the 19 ability of the society to protect itself, but 20 the question becomes every community that I've 21 ever dealt with this issue says, "We don't care 22 where they go. We don't want them here", and 23 what I see happening is that you're going to 6639 1 have the -- the offender who needs -- assuming 2 that they're on some course of rehabilitation, 3 needs access to employment opportunities, needs 4 access to some kind of living environment where 5 they can continue rehabilitation, assuming it's 6 on the road to rehabilitation, and the problem 7 with the local community saying, "We don't 8 care. We don't care. We now know. We don't 9 want him here", my guess is almost every 10 community faced with that choice is going to say 11 that, and it seems to me that we will face a 12 problem downstream about how are we going to 13 handle this problem? What are we going to do? 14 Where, if at all, is an appropriate location for 15 these offenders to live? I don't know the 16 answer to that question. 17 That's the next issue we're going 18 to have to deal with, whether we deal with the 19 zoning power or we deal with it through some 20 kind of community residence power or some other 21 problem, because I believe that every community 22 when notified as this bill does, they will all 23 say, "We do not want that person here." The 6640 1 danger of a pedophile is as present in every 2 part of your district as it is in mine, and 3 whether it's rural or urban, those dangers are 4 readily apparent, but we're going to have to 5 face that next issue of what we do as a state; 6 what do we do as a community to try to find a 7 place where that danger is minimized, and I hate 8 to think that we will end up with a special camp 9 or some other designation, and that may not 10 work, but we have to look to the next page, 11 which is we are empowering our people in this 12 state to protect themselves, and they do it 13 through knowing the information, being able to 14 react to the information, but then we have to 15 come up with a system of once they react, how do 16 we solve the problem of where they're going to 17 go? 18 Mr. President, I'm going to 19 support this bill. I supported it last year. I 20 think there are many good things in it. I think 21 there are some issues that will be worked out 22 over time, but I do think that we have to keep 23 in mind that there's another big issue out 6641 1 there, and that is what happens when everybody 2 knows and nobody wants them there as rightfully 3 so they shouldn't, we're going to have to deal 4 with that other issue of how do we handle this 5 problem of putting some -- finding some place 6 where these offenders can go, especially if they 7 already served their time. If they complied 8 with the registration requirements, they're 9 doing everything that the state wants them to 10 do. They have broken the law in the past but 11 they are complying now. We still have to find 12 some place where they can be. I don't want that 13 in our residential neighbors. I don't want that 14 where they're a danger to our children. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 16 would note just simply for the members' benefit 17 that the debate started at 10:50. There are 18 seven members who have indicated they desire to 19 speak, the next member being Senator Leibell. 20 The Chair recognizes Senator 21 Leibell. 22 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you very 23 much, Mr. President. 6642 1 I rise in support of this 2 legislation. I think we've had a very good and 3 full discussion, and there's a tremendous amount 4 of bipartisan support in this chamber today for 5 the bill that's before the house. 6 I would like to first congratu 7 late my colleague, Senator Skelos, who I think 8 has done such a superb job in his sponsorship of 9 this legislation. I'm pleased to be a co 10 sponsor. I did feel the need to rise to join my 11 colleagues in commenting, however, and as I look 12 across the room and I see Megan's mother there, 13 I think you should be aware that last summer and 14 fall in my district, I frequently talked about 15 your loss, and I spoke about it, and I have to 16 tell you in, what was then 12 years in office, I 17 have never seen a community as touched by this 18 loss and what you and your family have gone 19 through. 20 They gave me a very strong 21 message to go back to the Capitol and address 22 this problem. I salute you in the efforts you 23 have made, and even though your little Megan did 6643 1 not have the opportunity to lead a long life, 2 she has led a full life because she has brought 3 us and other legislative bodies to a position 4 where we are really forced to grapple with this 5 terrible problem. 6 It was noted earlier, the 7 Minority Leader noted earlier, the change that 8 we have seen, the change in time, the change in 9 expectations. I think Senator Connor and I are 10 probably relatively close in age, and I grew up 11 out in Queens County representing now a mid 12 Hudson district, and I grew up in a day and a 13 time also when you could go out of your door and 14 your parents didn't have to worry about you. 15 You could leave your house in the morning with 16 confidence that your family members could return 17 safe that evening. 18 That's no longer the case. For 19 my colleagues who represent urban areas, I 20 represent a district that's rural-suburban with 21 folks who stay in the community during the day 22 and other folks in the southern part of my 23 district who commute to New York City. Whether 6644 1 you're in the largest city or the smallest 2 hamlet of this state or this nation today, every 3 parent has great fear concerning the welfare and 4 safety of their child. 5 Our greatest responsibility as 6 members of the Legislature or anyone who holds 7 any public office is the safety of our 8 constituents. That is something that has 9 obviously not been taken care of over the last 10 few decades. We have not come across and come 11 -- developed the legislation necessary to 12 address these tragic changes we have seen occur 13 in our society. 14 I believe we have before us 15 legislation that will not be a complete solution 16 but that will go a long way towards addressing 17 this problem. 18 Little Megan with her short life 19 has led my colleagues and I here today to 20 deliberate this bill. 21 I congratulate again Senator 22 Skelos for his efforts. I'm very pleased to 23 co-sponsor and to vote in favor of this 6645 1 legislation. It comes to us because of a great 2 tragedy, but I believe it will go a long way 3 towards preventing similar losses. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 I only wish that Senator Leichter 10 was still here, because I just wanted to comment 11 a little bit further on something that Senator 12 Skelos said when he referenced to Sherry Lindsay 13 who was a young lady from Binghamton who was 14 raped and murdered, and her father is a police 15 officer, and at that time had the police even 16 known in this particular case, he would have 17 been able to do something about that not knowing 18 that a pedophile was living next door right in 19 the neighborhood when she was delivering papers 20 on a daily basis, but as I was just discussing 21 with Mrs. Kanka a few minutes ago, if you talk 22 to the authorities, the experts, they'll tell 23 you that they need help. They need the eyes and 6646 1 ears of all of us to assist them in preventing 2 these tragedies. So it's not always just the 3 police and the authorities who we can hope can 4 do the job, but it's the assistance of citizens, 5 like everyone in this room and the people that 6 we represent, who have to band together. 7 You know, in today's society, 8 we're always depending on someone else, and in 9 this case, it just makes an awful lot of sense 10 to have this registry go public so that we can 11 all protect our children. 12 You know, I doubt that there's a 13 parent anywhere who hasn't been touched by the 14 story of Megan Kanka and every day since we 15 first learned of the details of her tragedy, I'm 16 sure many of us have looked at these unfamiliar 17 faces that are in our neighborhoods with 18 increasing suspicion. I know that I have, and 19 you know it shouldn't be that way. If a paroled 20 sex offender moved next door, you and I have a 21 right to know. That's why as we marked today 22 earlier as Missing Children's Day and as I 23 joined Senator Skelos who has done an 6647 1 outstanding job in pulling this legislation 2 together -- you know, two years ago they said 3 that he wouldn't be able to get it through both 4 houses of the Legislature, but through his 5 effort and dedication to this very important 6 cause, he's been very successful, not only in 7 putting this bill on the floor for passage 8 today, but I believe he succeeded in working 9 with the Assembly so that it will be passed 10 there. So I applaud my colleague, Senator 11 Skelos, for moving forward with this. 12 By enacting this bill today into 13 law, we'll ensure that convicted sex offenders 14 are never very far away from the eyes of law 15 enforcement authorities and from the public. It 16 will also enable citizens to find out if a child 17 molester moves into their communities so that 18 they can take the necessary steps in keeping 19 their families safe. 20 Ladies and gentlemen, a simple 21 vote of yes today from the Senate and a vote 22 from the Assembly and a quick stroke of the pen 23 from Governor Pataki will protect thousands of 6648 1 other little Megan Kankas who are -- knowingly 2 run and jump and play within an earshot of 3 would-be sexual predators. We'll also provide a 4 lasting legacy to a child whose only flaw was 5 her wide-eyed innocence. 6 Mr. President, I will vote aye 7 today in the memory of Megan Kanka. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. President, my colleagues. I will be 12 brief. 13 First let me also applaud Senator 14 Skelos and his very capable staff on bringing 15 this to us for consideration, but the persons 16 that I would most like to pay respect to and 17 appreciation and applaud -- and applause would 18 be the Kanka family. Mrs. Maureen Kanka and her 19 husband Richard, each time that they go to a 20 Legislature or to another city or before any 21 group to speak on this very dramatic and 22 profound issue, the loss of their child Megan 23 must be resurrected within their mind's eye and 6649 1 their soul, the experience of that great loss; 2 and so I applaud them, because it takes a lot of 3 courage to do what they have done, but in their 4 courageous action, they're making not only the 5 streets of the various cities where they travel 6 but the states across this nation, safer places 7 and safer havens for little children, and I 8 think that will be the legacy that you leave for 9 all of America, that Megan will be remembered 10 because she, through the gifts that you are 11 giving and bringing to our attention, this 12 matter of great concern will result not only in 13 legislation but in action that will make the 14 streets safer for children. 15 I would like to note that as a 16 father, when my children did not arrive at home 17 as expected, I worried, because at that time 18 when they were small I was a police officer, and 19 I had seen firsthand the results of the madness 20 that pedophilia can become, and I was so happy 21 each time that they arrived safely eventually, 22 even though they may have required some 23 admonishment by me because they should have let 6650 1 their mother or I know where they were; and now 2 they've grown-up, thank God safely, and we have 3 a grandchild, and so the worrying cycle begins 4 again. 5 And so this pain that the Kanka 6 family and all other families in like 7 circumstances have experienced is universal, and 8 today I would respectfully request that if 9 there's ever a bill like this again in the 10 Legislature, that because of the severity of the 11 pain experienced by all, even those of us who 12 are Democrats, when such a loss occurs, that we 13 be also included as sponsors on this bill. It's 14 a universal issue. It is universal pain, and 15 it's one in which we should all cooperate, not 16 just because it's politically correct to do but 17 because it is morally correct to do. 18 Thank you very much, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Hoblock. 22 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 6651 1 I also rise in front of my 2 colleagues in support of this legislation and 3 offer congratulations to Senator Skelos and his 4 staff for putting it together. 5 You know, as we have a number of 6 pieces of legislation that have come before this 7 house as well as the Assembly that deal with 8 crime and punishment for the conviction of that 9 crime, rehabilitation and a number of other 10 criminal justice issues, we all think that 11 perhaps we have found the answer, that this one 12 piece of paper, if enacted into law, is going to 13 solve many of the problems that exist in our 14 communities and make this a very law-abiding 15 state in which to live, and it's unfortunate 16 that we have to keep doing that, but that's the 17 real world and that's what goes on out there, 18 and it becomes very difficult in attempting to 19 deal with these problems. 20 This legislation may not be the 21 final answer. It may not be the protection of 22 every young child that we would like to protect 23 as well as everyone else, but it is a major, 6652 1 major first step in going forward. 2 In my area, we've had a number of 3 instances that I'm sure people can relate to and 4 compare to what's happened in their own 5 districts. About a year ago, some local people 6 joined together because they got word -- and it 7 was basically by rumor -- that a convicted sex 8 offender was about to be released and was going 9 to be placed in their neighborhood. They formed 10 and tried to get as much information as they 11 could for their protection and the protection of 12 their families. They had a rather difficult 13 time doing that, but they eventually did and 14 together, as a group, they were able to persuade 15 the authorities that this particular individual 16 should not be located in this neighborhood, 17 highly dense residential neighborhood with a 18 number of young children. 19 It shows that knowledge does have 20 power and, if nothing else, our constituents 21 deserve the right to know. They deserve to know 22 what exists in their neighborhood. 23 Just in the past two or three 6653 1 weeks in this immediate area we've had some news 2 reports about possible abduction of young 3 children in one of our local supermarkets. 4 There were stories of mothers that had their 5 young children in their shopping baskets and 6 would be no more than two or three feet away, 7 turn their head to take something off the shelf 8 and somebody is trying to nab that kid out of 9 that basket. It happened two or three times in 10 one of our local supermarkets. The local police 11 departments are working feverishly to try to 12 find the culprit. 13 Wouldn't it be nice if we're able 14 to give them a start? Wouldn't it be great if 15 they could bring that uncertainty and that fear 16 to rest for those parents who, just two or three 17 feet away, were experiencing the loss of a 18 child? Absolutely incredible. 19 The society in which we live - 20 and we spend so much time and energy and money 21 on protecting those that choose to violate the 22 laws of that society. We have to spend at least 23 that much, if not more, on protecting the 6654 1 victims or potential victims of that action. 2 Earlier today, I had the 3 opportunity of going to a graduation ceremony. 4 It was a ceremony of a nursery school, children 5 three to five years old, and as I saw 45 young 6 kids up on the stage all dressed in their 7 various attire and putting on a little show with 8 the beautiful smiling faces, I was thinking 9 about this legislation. I was thinking about 10 other pieces of legislation that we entertain in 11 this house, and I'm sure that the thoughts that 12 were going through my mind were going through 13 the minds of every parent, grandparent and 14 relative in that room, and how can I protect 15 that child to make their life such that they can 16 grow up and come back into this room some day 17 and appreciate what it is I'm going through 18 unscarred? How can we protect them against what 19 is the violence and the crime that is going on 20 in our communities? How can I protect them from 21 the predators that we're trying to do here? How 22 can I best make it safe for them? Knowledge is 23 power and, when they have the knowledge, they 6655 1 can form their plan. 2 So, Senator Skelos, I appreciate 3 your work and the work of your staff in putting 4 this legislation together. This deserves our 5 support. It's the least we can do for those 6 young kids. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Mr. President, I rise in support 13 of this proposal and like so many of my col 14 leagues who have sung the praise of Senator 15 Skelos, I too join in singing that praise. He 16 has labored long and hard in bringing this 17 effort to fruition, and I think what he has 18 given us is a carefully crafted bill intended to 19 deal with some very difficult issues. 20 We have among our primary 21 responsibilities as members of this Legislature 22 the obligation to provide safety, safety 23 particularly for those who are most vulnerable. 6656 1 And who within our ranks are more vulnerable 2 than our children? 3 Obviously, just looking at what 4 has occurred over the course of the past couple 5 of decades in terms of violence, in terms of 6 acts -- criminal acts, in terms of acts of abuse 7 within households, it seems to me that something 8 is amiss. Something is clawing at the very 9 fiber of our society and our traditions, and 10 these manifestations of violence seem to show us 11 at our worst, and yet in responding to those 12 manifestations, we somehow or other, I think, 13 have the opportunity to see ourselves at our 14 best. 15 Mrs. Kanka is here with us. I 16 don't know Mrs. Kanka. There can be very few 17 people in this room, certainly, but in our 18 nation who have not heard of the awful travail 19 that she and her family has had to experience. 20 Her journey has certainly been a painful one; 21 one that, however, is not merely necessary but 22 vital. Her being here today is not unlike the 23 acts of others who have selflessly endeavored in 6657 1 the form of a quest to try and make sure others 2 don't have to share their painful experiences. 3 There are people such as the 4 Clearys who very similarly endured the most 5 heinous of tragedies in the loss of their 6 daughter on a college campus, who became 7 advocates on behalf of college campus safety, 8 traveled this country, lobbied in Washington and 9 were instrumental in changing the way we deal 10 with campus security. 11 Your efforts certainly are not in 12 vain. Your efforts have met with virtual 13 unanimity here on both sides of this aisle. 14 Your quest, while at times a painful one, 15 certainly is one which, in terms of the ultimate 16 you see in terms of result, will, in fact, 17 occur. 18 As the chairman of the Children 19 and Families Committee, as a member of the Codes 20 Committee, as a member of the Crime Victims, 21 Crime and Corrections Committee, I too have long 22 been concerned with so many victims, people who 23 have been victimized in so many ways. 6658 1 This measure is a measure which 2 is a cutting edge measure. It's the best that 3 we have to offer today. Senator Skelos has seen 4 to it that it is such. There will be other 5 issues, other issues involving victims. This 6 will not cure all the problems of young people 7 who are at risk, communities that are at risk, 8 but it certainly is a monumental effort and a 9 giant step in making our homes, making our 10 children, making our communities that much more 11 safe than they previously have been. 12 It's unfortunate that it took 13 something of the enormity of what occurred to 14 young Megan in New Jersey to make this issue as 15 important as it is but, nonetheless, we can't 16 fail in our responsibilities and we will, in 17 fact, today abide by those responsibilities by 18 passage of this bill. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Jones. 22 SENATOR JONES: Yes. It was not 23 my intent to speak today because I think my 6659 1 views on this kind of thing are pretty 2 well-known back home, but I did hear several of 3 my colleagues mention the little girl who 4 happens to live in my district, and there were 5 several thoughts that I had while listening to 6 it. 7 First of all, I hoped that the 8 name Kelly Coulton will never be linked with 9 this legislation, because that will say that she 10 will not be found some day and not be found to 11 be a victim as poor Megan was. So it is my hope 12 that this legislation will not pertain to her, 13 but that doesn't change the fact of how 14 important it is and how it does pertain to so 15 many other children. 16 I listened to Senator Connor 17 today talk about his childhood and I guess we 18 can't all help but think back to how the world 19 has changed and how sad -- I guarantee all of us 20 have sat here thinking about those changes and 21 how different it is for us today. 22 In my own life, I lived in a home 23 a block and a half from a lovely lake in 6660 1 Rochester and a beach that my four children 2 walked to almost daily once they learned to 3 swim, not always with their mother because there 4 were always neighborhood people there. My 5 granddaughters now live in that same home with 6 their mom and dad. They put a pool in the 7 backyard because they did not feel that block 8 and a half or being on the beach with neighbors 9 was a safe place for their children to be. How 10 sad that the world has come to that, but 11 nevertheless, it has; and I think one other 12 point that jumped out at me today was Senator 13 Volker was the only one who did make the point, 14 while all the children tug at our hearts and 15 there certainly is no crime more heinous than 16 that committed against a child, this bill does 17 protect as well the many women out there who 18 maybe did not appear on the front page of a 19 paper nor would they have wanted their name or 20 face there but, nevertheless, have been a victim 21 of these sexual predators, and this bill will 22 protect them as well, because many of their 23 lives have been destroyed emotionally and 6661 1 sometimes even physically by the attacks of 2 these people. 3 I'm very happy that this bill is 4 out here today. I think what our society is 5 looking for is some sort of order in all of this 6 chaos, because every one of these cases today is 7 evoking panic out there. This morning in our 8 local paper we have another situation where a 9 gentleman served his full time and is being 10 released into a community which has caused a 11 tremendous uproar. This is about the third one 12 that's occurred in Rochester in just a month and 13 I think the problem is people need order. They 14 need to know that's there's something that's 15 going to happen, that they will be informed and 16 that all the right things will be done, and I 17 think a bill such as this is going to give them 18 that kind of assurance that the government is - 19 government, law enforcement and everyone is 20 together in this issue and there are concrete 21 steps that will be taken to protect their 22 safety. 23 So I thank you for this, Senator 6662 1 Skelos, and I would just add, along with my 2 colleague, I'm a little disappointed that the 3 system still doesn't allow us to join you and 4 take the same pride in this thing as all of you 5 are able to do. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: So many of you 9 have been so eloquent on the bill and I don't 10 want to be repetitive. We've clearly expressed 11 our disdain for sex offender behavior and the 12 compassion we have for all victims, Megan's 13 family as well as tens of thousands of women and 14 children who have been victimized in our 15 communities. 16 I would like to spend a moment to 17 talk about the courage of Megan's family and the 18 courage of so many victims. The crime victims' 19 movement is a grass roots movement. It's not 20 made up of paid professionals or paid lobbyists 21 or expensive corporations; it's made up of 22 individuals, many of them victimized themselves, 23 who have taken their personal tragedy and pain 6663 1 and dedicated their lives to helping other 2 people, and this bill would probably not be here 3 today if it weren't for the courageous efforts 4 of Megan's family and other victims throughout 5 our country. 6 I know -- and I have been a long 7 time supporter of the sex offender registry. 8 When I was the Commissioner of Probation in New 9 York City in 1990, I was one of the first 10 commissioners to talk about specialized case 11 loads for sex offenders, and then -- and it's 12 not so long ago -- people said, "Why do we have 13 to treat them differently?" It's regrettable 14 that we do have to have -- take these measures. 15 We're a society that has to have strict law 16 enforcement, that we have to track sex offenders 17 because they are, in fact, different from other 18 offenders. Many of them, although not all of 19 them -- that's why these classification levels 20 have to be carefully thought out and planned - 21 but many of them cannot be cured; they can only 22 be controlled. 23 So we understand more than we did 6664 1 five years ago when people basically laughed at 2 me and said, "Why do we need to do specialized 3 case loads? Why do we need to have a sex 4 offender registry?" We know more today and 5 we're taking responsible steps to correct this 6 problem. 7 Having said that, I have some 8 concerns, Senator Skelos, that I hope will be 9 worked out in the course of negotiations with 10 the Assembly, and maybe many of these concerns 11 have been addressed. If not, I believe the 12 classification levels have to be carefully 13 thought out and people that have committed 14 crimes ten years ago, those classification 15 levels can be re-evaluated over time, that there 16 be due process given to the inmates that they 17 can be heard -- not inmates, to the parolees 18 that they can be heard before classification 19 decisions are rendered and that those decisions 20 are appealable and reviewable. 21 My other concern is the '900' hot 22 line. I believe that whoever responds to these 23 calls from community members have to be 6665 1 trained. There have to be strict guidelines. I 2 would like to have them under the jurisdiction 3 of law enforcement because, as you said, Senator 4 Skelos, it is very important that as we seek to 5 protect members of the community, we don't 6 encourage the non-law-abiding members to take 7 advantage of these hot lines, take advantage of 8 this information, abuse it, misuse this 9 information and create acts of vigilantism. I 10 would hope that maybe we could co-sponsor 11 legislation that those individuals that do 12 misuse this hot line or do misuse this 13 information will be treated appropriately with 14 independent penalties. Maybe you and I can talk 15 about that kind of legislation. 16 So I think if we carefully think 17 out these guidelines, make sure that the 18 information is reviewed by law enforcement 19 before it's disseminated to the community and 20 we're very careful in this approach, this will 21 give communities invaluable information. 22 But the last item, and I hope the 23 Senate will review, we did pass a bill recently 6666 1 that I objected to which would end parole for 2 sex offenders, and if this sex offender registry 3 is going to work, if parole officers who are 4 invaluable in terms of ensuring that parolees, 5 particularly sex offenders, are not engaging in 6 illegal activity, are not relocating near 7 playgrounds and schools, we need unannounced 8 home visits by parole officers. They can ensure 9 that parolees undergo continued treatment. I 10 hope that this house revisits the notion that in 11 our effort to make sure sex offenders do greater 12 time, that we understand how indispensable and 13 invaluable it is to have sex offenders 14 supervised in the community through parole 15 supervision. This is a public safety issue. 16 This is what we're talking about today. I hope 17 next year we'll revisit that issue. 18 Again, I'd like to end -- I'm a 19 parent. I have never had to face this tragedy. 20 I pray every day that I don't have to face this 21 tragedy as a parent or as a woman and victimized 22 by this heinous activity. 23 I applaud again the family that 6667 1 is here today and on behalf of all the other 2 victims, I applaud them for their courage and 3 strength and their willingness to speak out. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Skelos to close debate. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 I want to thank, once again, my 9 staff, Assemblyman Feldman, his staff, for 10 making this legislation possible today. 11 As was mentioned by so many of 12 the speakers, this is only one step in trying to 13 protect our communities and our children from 14 pedophiles and those who would destroy not only 15 that child's life but a family's life; but in 16 passage of this legislation, I really want to 17 thank Mrs. Kanka for being here and really 18 taking what is a parent's, family member's 19 nightmare and making it into a positive effort 20 on behalf of our children and our communities. 21 So, Maureen, again, I thank you 22 for traveling here from New Jersey. I thank you 23 for your support. Our prayers, of course, will 6668 1 always be with you and Richard, your family, 2 your daughter, but as you reflect upon your life 3 through the legislation we're passing today and 4 so many other states are passing, you can look 5 positively upon what occurred to you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect 180 days after the date on 10 which it shall have become law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 16 the results when tabulated. 17 The Chair recognizes Senator 18 Leichter to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 20 for reasons I stated earlier, I'm going to vote 21 against the bill. 22 I want to see a centralized 23 registration. I want to see dissemination to 6669 1 the police. I don't think the case has been 2 made for making this information public to the 3 extent that this bill does. I think it raises 4 some constitutional issues. I think it raises 5 issues of whether it's really effective. 6 I appreciate we're trying to 7 respond to a very tragic human situation, a 8 situation where our heart certainly goes out, 9 but I don't think that the case has been made 10 that the public dissemination will really 11 provide effective protection for children, and 12 when you balance it against some of the problems 13 that it causes, I agree with the Women's Bar 14 Association of the state of New York in opposing 15 this bill. I trust and I hope that we will see 16 a bill back here this session that will not have 17 some of the infirmities of this legislation. 18 I vote in the negative, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 1, 6670 1 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 5 would like to return to the report of standing 6 committees. I believe there's a report from the 7 Judiciary Committee. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Bruno, there is a report from the Committee on 10 Judiciary at the desk. We'll return to reports 11 of standing committees and ask the Secretary to 12 read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 14 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 15 following nomination: Thomas D. Nolan, Jr., 16 judge of the Saratoga County Family Court. 17 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Lack. 20 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 I proudly rise to move the 23 nomination of Thomas D. Nolan, Jr. to be a judge 6671 1 of the Family Court of Saratoga County. 2 Judge -- Mr. Nolan, a graduate of 3 Hamilton College, a cum laude graduate of Albany 4 Law School, has been examined by the staff and 5 counsel to the committee. He has been checked 6 through the New York State Police with a BCI 7 check. He has been found more than satisfactory 8 in all regards. 9 He appeared before the Judiciary 10 Committee this morning and was unanimously 11 approved by members of that committee, to come 12 before us this afternoon to move his nomination 13 as a judge of the Family Court in Saratoga 14 County. 15 He brings a wonderful under 16 standing of the law to the role that he's about 17 to play. He has been patiently, with his wife 18 Marybeth, his sons Thomas, Joseph and John, 19 sitting and following our debate this morning 20 and this afternoon in the chamber, and it's my 21 pleasure to yield to the Majority Leader, 22 Senator Bruno, on the nomination of Thomas 23 Nolan. 6672 1 Senator? 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you very 3 much, Senator Lack. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, it 7 gives me great pleasure to rise in support of 8 this nomination. 9 I've known Tom Nolan for a lot of 10 years and his family who are here with us, proud 11 that they are constituents and have been for a 12 lot of years. 13 Senator Lack talked about Tom's 14 qualifications. He has been as active as any 15 good citizen could be in his community in more 16 ways than just as relates to his profession. He 17 has a real concern for families, for young 18 people and for the constituency generally. 19 I think the people of his 20 judicial district and the county will be 21 extremely well-served in having Judge Tom Nolan 22 representing their interests and acting on 23 behalf of the public. 6673 1 So I am proud to be voting in 2 favor of moving this nomination. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Farley on the nomination. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 I am pleased and honored to rise 8 in support of Senator Bruno's constituent, 9 somebody that eminently deserves to be on the 10 Family Court. 11 You know, I don't think there's a 12 harder job in the judiciary than Family Court 13 judge. It's one that is trying. It is one that 14 is -- requires a person to have great patience 15 and understanding of the family, and I'll tell 16 you, anyone that is one of nine children, which 17 he is, anybody that has such a beautiful family 18 that he does, with his three boys and his lovely 19 wife, I think he's eminently qualified to serve 20 on that court; and let me just say that sharing 21 Saratoga County with Senator Bruno -- although 22 he's not -- I have the rural part where there's 23 no people. Joe has it where -- the high rent 6674 1 district where he lives. Senator -- he comes 2 from a very distinguished family that came from 3 Saratoga County even though he's not related to 4 the late Senator who -- the late Senator -- the 5 former Senator Howard Nolan. I think he's from 6 Still... well, the last time I checked, who 7 also, I believe came from around Stillwater, 8 Mechanicville, and so forth, but there's a lot 9 of Nolans that came -- four of his -- three of 10 your brothers are attorneys, is that correct? 11 Anyway, he comes from a very 12 distinguished legal family and I think that the 13 Governor, again, is to be congratulated on 14 making an outstanding appointment because Tom 15 Nolan will be an outstanding judge, and I'm 16 going to vote affirmatively. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 question is on the nomination of Thomas D. 19 Nolan, Jr. as judge of the Saratoga County 20 Family Court. All those n favor of the 21 nomination signify by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye".) 23 Opposed, nay. 6675 1 (There was no response.) 2 The nominee is unanimously 3 confirmed. 4 Judge Nolan, his wife Susan -- or 5 Marybeth who is with us here. 6 (Applause.) 7 As a lesson in humility, you can 8 see that we brought the judges down from their 9 lofty perch in the gallery to a softer cushion 10 on the floor; but we're very happy to be joined 11 by Judge Nolan's wife Marybeth and their sons 12 Thomas, Joseph and John. 13 Welcome to the chamber. Enjoy 14 your stay. It's a great day, I'm sure, in your 15 life, and good work. Godspeed. 16 (Applause.) 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 19 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 20 following nomination: Randolph A. Meyer as 21 judge of the Livingston County Court. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Lack. 6676 1 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I rise to move the nomination of 4 Randolph A. Meyer as judge of the Livingston 5 County Court. 6 Mr. Meyer is a graduate of Tulane 7 University of Northwestern University School of 8 Law and has had a distinguished practice in the 9 western end of this state. 10 I should tell you that last week 11 I went to conduct a hearing in Rochester and 12 when I arrived in Rochester, the administrative 13 judge of that judicial district, Judge Willis 14 who's a Democrat, said, "Glad you're here. Hope 15 you're going back home and you confirm Randy 16 Meyer as a judge in Livingston County." 17 For lunch -- I went and had lunch 18 with justices of the Appellate Division, 19 Republican and Democrat, who both said, "Please, 20 leave here, go back to Albany and confirm Randy 21 Meyer as a judge of the Livingston County 22 Court." 23 I can't think of a better 6677 1 bipartisan recommendation than judges of both 2 parties for Monroe County and that judicial 3 district asking for that confirmation. I should 4 also point out that Mr. Meyer has been found 5 qualified by our distinguished governor's 6 screening committee and by the previous 7 administration's screening committee. 8 Therefore, I would very proudly 9 recommend to all my colleagues the nomination of 10 Randy Meyer as a judge of the Livingston County 11 Court, and I'm most happy to yield to Senator 12 Volker. 13 Senator. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Volker on the nomination. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 17 am very proud to rise in support of this 18 nomination and point out that, although Judge 19 Nolan was the first judge, as I understand it, 20 to be confirmed after appointment by Governor 21 George Pataki, Randy Meyer from Livingston 22 County of my district, from Geneseo, was 23 actually the first judge submitted to the 6678 1 Judiciary Committee by -- by Governor George 2 Pataki and we were very proud of that. 3 I would point out that Randy not 4 only has had a distinguished career in legal 5 practice, but also had been an acting Rochester 6 City Court judge and has been a justice in the 7 town of Groveland. 8 As well as having a long and 9 distinguished career, I would also like to point 10 out that one of the judges who recommended Randy 11 to Senator Lack is a former colleague from the 12 Assembly, Dick Wesley, who is now the presiding 13 judge in the Appellate Division and a former 14 partner of Randy Meyer's, so I think he had a 15 little bit of a personal intention there, but I 16 think probably Randy is one of the most 17 respected lawyers in western New York, and I 18 have no doubt that he'll make a tremendous 19 Livingston County judge. 20 He has been waiting for a little 21 while to be confirmed, as Senator Lack said, 22 that he had previously been screened by the 23 previous governor's screening committee and has 6679 1 gone through the same process with this -- with 2 the present governor. 3 So, Randy, and his wife Suzanne, 4 my heartiest good wishes and congratulations, 5 and I know that you'll do a fantastic job on the 6 Livingston County Court. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Nozzolio on the nomination. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 10 I rise to join my colleagues in support of this 11 nomination. I too believe that Mr. Meyer is 12 eminently qualified and will be an excellent 13 judge. 14 I hasten, though, to add those of 15 my colleagues who served with former Assemblyman 16 and now one of the key judges in the Appellate 17 Division of the Fourth Department, Dick Wesley, 18 not to hold Randy Meyer's association with Judge 19 Wesley against him in this nomination, that I 20 hasten to point that out because there may be 21 some who -- who believe that that association - 22 and I say this with tongue planted firmly in 23 cheek -- is anything but a good one, frankly, 6680 1 and I think it's a great one, that Dick Wesley 2 has informed me for many years about his 3 colleague from Livingston County who is a very 4 aggressive advocate on behalf of his client - 5 clients and clientele and the people of 6 Livingston County, and I know that if half of 7 the good things that Judge Wesley has said about 8 Randy Meyer are true, Randy Meyer will be an 9 outstanding judge in the years ahead. 10 Mr. President, I add my support 11 for this very fine nomination. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Dollinger on the nomination. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President, I rise as a representative from 16 Monroe County, also a representative of the 17 Monroe County legal community in support of 18 Randy Meyer's nomination. His reputation has 19 made its way up Route 15 from Geneseo and into 20 Rochester. It has been a good one and a strong 21 one as a practitioner and his experience as a 22 town justice and as an acting city court judge 23 in Rochester. 6681 1 I'm pleased that Judge Willis 2 conveyed to the chairman of the Judiciary 3 Committee his sentiments that Randy Meyer should 4 be put on the County Court bench. It's a 5 sentiment that I agree with. I will also add 6 for the benefit of all my other colleagues, as 7 you know, as I said at the Judiciary Committee, 8 I'm one of those who has been critical sometimes 9 of this Governor's nominees for other positions, 10 but if these two nominees for judicial positions 11 are an indication of the trend that this 12 Governor will have in appointing high quality 13 people to the vacant judiciary positions in this 14 state, then I will be consistently voting in the 15 affirmative. 16 Randy Meyer will do a very good 17 job, and I wish him the best. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 question is on the nomination of Randolph A. 20 Meyer as judge of the Livingston County Court. 21 All those in favor of the confirmation signify 22 by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye".) 6682 1 Those opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The nominee is unanimously 4 confirmed. 5 Judge Meyer, nice to have you 6 with us. 7 (Applause.) 8 Judge Meyer is also accompanied 9 by his wife Susan who's here in the chamber 10 with us. Susan, thank you for coming and 11 joining us. Wonderful day. 12 Senator Larkin. 13 Senator Leichter, why do you 14 rise? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 I rise on a parliamentary inquiry. I didn't 17 want to raise this before while Mrs. Kanka was 18 here, but I think to my mind, it was inapprop 19 riate and I found it personally offensive that 20 she was asked to be here during the debate. I 21 think it hindered us and limited us in the 22 debate. I think it was one thing to have her 23 here for a resolution, but then to have the 6683 1 sponsor of the bill continue to point to her - 2 and that's the very reason that we have, as I 3 understand it, a rule that says that that cannot 4 be done, and my parliamentary inquiry is, Mr. 5 President, whether Rule X -- Rule X, Section 8 6 (g) applies, "No person shall be admitted to the 7 floor of this Senate who is interested in 8 pending or contemplated legislation or who is 9 employed by or receives compensation from any 10 public or private source for influencing 11 legislation." 12 Obviously, the issue is moot, but 13 I will certainly raise it in the future, if 14 something which I think was done in such bad 15 taste, and I'm sorry to say that to my friend, 16 Dean Skelos, because I know how much he's 17 personally committed to this legislation, 18 certainly takes nothing away from his commitment 19 or his integrity, but I think that really was 20 something that should not happen, and I hope 21 that we will not see that happen again and 22 certainly if it does, I will raise the issue. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6684 1 Leichter, the Chair would take your notation 2 under advisement. The question certainly is 3 moot at this point as the event has passed us. 4 Senator Larkin, why do you rise 5 now? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 7 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 8 Committee - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Where 10 would you like that to occur? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: -- In Room 332. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 13 There will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 14 Committee -- immediate meeting of the Rules 15 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 16 332. 17 Senator Larkin. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 19 let's return to the calendar in regular order. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will continue to call -- will call the 22 controversial calendar in regular order. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 6685 1 Calendar Number 822, by Senator Volker, Senate 2 Print 3919, an act to amend the Penal Law and 3 the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to term 4 of imprisonment for certain offenders. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 7 could we just temporarily lay this bill aside? 8 I am just about to go to the Rules Committee. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're 10 going to lay Calendar Number 822 aside 11 temporarily. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will continue to call the 15 controversial calendar. 16 Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 18 the announcement concerning the Rules Committee, 19 we would like to delay that for about another 15 20 or 20 minutes. We have a conflict with the 21 utilization of rooms. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 23 right. The Rules Committee meeting which was 6686 1 just called will be called at 1:20, 15 minutes 2 from now, Rules Committee, Majority Conference 3 Room, Room 332 at 1:20. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 can we call up Calendar Number 927? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read Calendar Number 927. 8 Senator Jones, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I wonder if 10 the sponsor would just yield to a technical 11 question on this bill for me. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Jones, let's get the bill before the house 14 first. 15 SENATOR JONES: Okay, fine. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay? 17 The Secretary will read the title of Calendar 18 Number 927. 19 THE SECRETARY: 927, by Senator 20 Stafford, Senate Print 3308, an act to amend the 21 Tax Law, in relation to exempting volunteer fire 22 departments and companies and ambulance 23 companies. 6687 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 Senator Stafford, an explanation 4 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Sure. I would 6 be glad to answer the question. 7 SENATOR JONES: I just have a 8 technical question, if the Senator would yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, do you have any objection to Senator 11 Jones asking the sponsor a question? 12 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I would 13 be delighted if Senator Jones would ask the 14 question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson yields to Senator Jones for a question 17 of Senator Stafford. 18 Senator Stafford, do you yield to 19 Senator Jones for a question? 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: I can already 21 feel that we're on -- things are going well. 22 SENATOR JONES: Well, let's keep 23 moving then. 6688 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields, Senator Jones. 3 SENATOR JONES: This is a topic, 4 Senator, near and dear to my heart, since I was 5 the person that made out these papers attempting 6 to get this money back, but what I'm asking - 7 what I would like to know about your bill, how 8 is it going to work? How does XYZ ambulance 9 company under your bill not pay this tax? If 10 they go to Joe's Mobil Station and it's already 11 in the pump, how do they not pay the tax? 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I asked the 13 same question. 14 SENATOR JONES: Oh, good. Well, 15 we'll get the answer then. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: They'll be 17 treated the same way that other entities now are 18 that don't pay any tax. The dealer, whoever 19 pumps the gas, keeps a log. I see people who 20 know the industry are nodding. They keep a log 21 and they explain -- they explain on a, I believe 22 quarterly report that goes into the Tax 23 Department why -- not why -- these entities 6689 1 bought gas but didn't pay the tax. 2 SENATOR JONES: Would the Senator 3 yield to another question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Stafford, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR JONES: Okay. I know 10 Senator LaValle has another bill that I have 11 been interested in. To me there's someone still 12 doing bookkeeping under your bill. Wouldn't it 13 make more sense if the way, the approach that 14 Senator LaValle was looking at, that all of 15 these people could buy directly from whatever, 16 the town -- from the government entity who 17 doesn't pay the tax? I know that's happening in 18 some areas now. They're doing it now as a 19 courtesy, but in other cases they're refusing. 20 Wouldn't it be possible, for instance, for the 21 fire department or the ambulance to buy their 22 gas directly from the town or the village or 23 whatever and not pay the tax and neither has to 6690 1 do the - 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: That's a 3 possibility, but I would explain to you, there 4 still would be bookkeeping because the town 5 would have to make sure that they keep a log the 6 same as the seller would, and it has to be 7 accounted for. 8 These -- as you probably know, 9 these forms that go in to the Tax Department are 10 rather serious -- let me put it the right way. 11 If you don't do it correctly, you can have some 12 very serious ramifications, up to and including 13 a felony. So these records are kept and I think 14 it makes sense. 15 Let's think a minute now. If you 16 bought it from the town, fine, but if you buy it 17 from a dealer, you're at least giving him the 18 opportunity to sell it and to get the profit, 19 even though the state doesn't get any, and I 20 know you want our dealers to get profits if they 21 can. 22 SENATOR JONES: I -- on the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6691 1 Jones on the bill. 2 SENATOR JONES: I certainly don't 3 object to anyone making money. I still think it 4 seems to me though -- and I understand the issue 5 very well because, truthfully, most of the 6 volunteers because of the paperwork you're 7 describing, gave up and didn't even bother 8 applying. 9 I know we did because your 10 volunteers, by the time you made out that 11 paperwork wasn't -- it wasn't worth the effort 12 and you just let the money go and pay the tax, 13 so I agree with you on that. 14 I'm still wondering how the 15 paperwork would work from the local gas station, 16 but perhaps you've looked at that but perhaps I 17 would suggest you maybe get together with 18 Senator LaValle and maybe there's a combination 19 of these that would benefit both that we would 20 look at. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 22 Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6692 1 Stafford. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize to 3 Senator Paterson. I owe you an explanation, but 4 I thought if I answered the question, you would 5 probably get a feel for what this is all about. 6 What it is -- he also did, so I 7 didn't want him to think that -- but I wondered 8 if he had any questions. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: No, Senator. 10 The answer was quite sufficient. It was an 11 education for me from both you and Senator 12 Jones. You're both great educators. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on December 1st. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 6693 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Seward, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 4 would ask unanimous consent to be recorded in 5 the negative on two bills, one being Calendar 6 843 and the second being Calendar 878, both of 7 which passed earlier today. I would like to be 8 recorded in the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Seward 11 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 12 Number 843 and 878. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 can we stand at ease for a few moments? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Senate will stand at ease for a few moments. 18 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 19 ease.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senate will come to order. Members please find 22 their places. The Senate will come to order. 23 Senator Present. 6694 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 can we take up Calendar Number 822? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 5 822. 6 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 7 Calendar Number 822, by Senator Volker, Senate 8 Print 3919, an act to amend the Penal Law and 9 the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to term 10 of imprisonment for certain offenders. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Volker, an explanation has been asked for by 13 Senator Paterson. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 15 this -- this bill is a -- what is known as a 16 modified three-times-and-you're-out bill. Three 17 times and you're out became a very popular 18 slogan, I think, over the last few years in some 19 states in the Union. 20 As I previously pointed out, New 21 York had -- has always had a modified two times 22 and you're out but not, of course, in the same 23 vein and with some of the draconian sentences 6695 1 that some states have used across the country. 2 There have been a number of bills 3 that we've talked about on this floor. Last 4 year, by the way, this bill passed this house by 5 a vote of 48 to 10, and what the bill does is - 6 very simply is -- very simply to a person who is 7 convicted of a third VFO, a third offense, 8 instead of a sentence presently which would be 9 two to ten which, in other words, the minimum 10 would be two to ten to life, this would raise 11 that sentence, a person who, in effect, is 12 convicted of a third violent felony offense to 13 25 years to life. In other words, a minimum of 14 25 years and, obviously, a maximum of life. 15 That would make it for a third offense the 16 highest offense except obviously for the death 17 penalty in this state and for the highest 18 offense other than for a murder case. 19 So what we have done here is this 20 is a modified version of three times and you're 21 out which, as I said passed the Senate last year 22 and that we are again trying to move this year. 23 Senator Paterson. 6696 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 4 Volker, I know that I really consider you to be 5 a friend, but I'm really very disappointed 6 today. Since I don't have my bill memorandums, 7 I really wished that you had talked for another 8 five to ten minutes. After all the time you 9 worked on this bill, I really thought it would 10 have merited a longer presentation, but even 11 without my memo, I'm trying to remember what it 12 said. 13 The Older Prisoners Project, I 14 think is a report that was released in 1994. In 15 the project they said that 50- and 60- and 70 16 year-old prisoners are really taking the place 17 of 15-, 20- and 25-year-old prisoners, and the 18 spirit of what they were saying was just 19 essentially that are we by extending the length 20 of time of these incarcerations in a sense 21 filling up the cells with individuals who have 22 aged out and denying us the opportunity to put 23 more of the younger, you know, more contentious, 6697 1 meaner individuals who deserve to be behind 2 bars, shortening their sentences and putting 3 them back out on the streets where they can harm 4 people? Is that a possibility? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: First of all, I 6 guess I have some difficulty with the logic of 7 that, and I know the report that you're talking 8 about. The only problem with that report is 9 that that's talking about the current situation 10 in our prison system. This bill obviously would 11 pertain to people who have -- who will in the 12 future commit a third violent felony offense. 13 Now, it's true that obviously 14 many of these people would all -- have been in 15 our prison system for a considerable period of 16 time, but assuming that they are out -- because 17 most of the time they wouldn't commit a violent 18 felony offense in prison -- these are people who 19 have had an opportunity to be on the outside 20 after committing two previous violent felony 21 offenses and now have repeated again. 22 It seems to me that, I don't care 23 what any project says about these people, these 6698 1 are pretty mean people, pretty nasty people who 2 I think belong behind bars, and not only that, 3 they are people who should know that if they 4 commit that third offense that they will be 5 subject to the most severe penalty that we can 6 give other than for the crime of murder, and 7 that's why, by the way, we have drafted this 8 bill the way it's been drafted. 9 I think, Senator, that in looking 10 at that report that you talked about, the logic 11 of it very honestly kind of escapes me. I 12 understand what they're taking about and what 13 they're really talking about is people we 14 already have in and, by the way, we have done 15 some -- the prison system has done some work on 16 very elderly inmates and, as you know, we passed 17 medical parole here a few years ago with the 18 idea of people who were actually very old people 19 in our system moving some people out. 20 We found the unusual situation 21 that some people really didn't want to be moved 22 out. Some people have become so used to prison 23 life, they wanted to stay there, but we have 6699 1 looked at that kind of an issue, but I think 2 that the issue that we really should look at is 3 the issue that these are people that are not 4 just ordinary criminals. They're criminals who 5 will have committed a serious violent felony 6 offense for the third time, and I don't think 7 that we should look at it from the standpoint 8 that they may be taking up space in our prison 9 system. I think it would be better to take up 10 space in our prison system than out in society. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 12 Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson, will you excuse us for a moment. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 as I understand it, 332 is now open. There will 19 be an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 20 in Room 332. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 22 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority 23 Conference Room, immediate meeting of the Rules 6700 1 Committee in 332. 2 Thank you, Senator Paterson. 3 Pardon the interruption. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator 5 Volker will yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Volker, will you yield? Senator yields. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, to 9 amplify the thrust of what I was asking, before 10 I draw your attention to the sentencing project, 11 the sentencing project of 1994 and their con 12 tention that age 30 is about the age limit at 13 which you start to see a decrease in violent 14 offenses among individuals, particularly males 15 who, between the ages of 15 and 25 have a very 16 high propensity to engage in violent activity, 17 so this is what I was really getting at. 18 In other words, even if you are 19 absolutely correct, and by the third -- by the 20 third victimization, the third violent felony, 21 we have now put them behind bars for 25 years, 22 nevertheless they start to get to ages where 23 they really statistically, if they have served 6701 1 the time, in other words part of the punishment 2 is retribution, and I understand that. Part of 3 the punishment is, no matter what they do, if 4 they get out, we want them to stay there as a 5 punishment for what they've done to other 6 members of society, but in terms of the actual 7 recidivism, we're saying that there is a 8 significant decrease after age 30, and what the 9 sentencing project's report suggests is that 10 there is basically a period in which we have 11 individuals who, other than if you want to 12 punish them, Senator Volker, and if you do, I 13 can understand that, but what I'm asking you is, 14 is there any real purpose that's served in the 15 area of recidivism if we keep these individuals 16 for 25 years while their replacements are out on 17 the streets endangering society? 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I think 19 I -- we took a glance at that report and, of 20 course, the people involved in that report are 21 traditional -- I don't want to use the word 22 "liberal" because I don't want to get into that 23 issue, but I think they're people that do not 6702 1 believe in deterrence and who generally are 2 looking at the prison system, and I would 3 greatly question as to whether if you really 4 looked at a snapshot of the criminals over the 5 last ten years, if the -- if the violence ratio 6 is as valid as they would -- they would claim. 7 There has been a decided rise in 8 the number of violence, I think, that people in 9 the age brackets -- in fact, one of the things 10 that we looked at in the issue of the death 11 penalty was the bogus complaint or claim that - 12 that there was this huge surge of killings 13 strictly by young people. 14 The facts don't necessarily back 15 that up. That is, there has been a huge surge 16 of killing by young people. There is also a 17 huge surge of killing by higher age groups, and 18 I think the problem with that argument that was 19 made by this -- this prison group is that it 20 does not, number one, take into consideration 21 the level of potential violence involved here 22 with the third violent felony offender, given 23 the history of -- of these people, and secondly, 6703 1 I happen to believe in the fact that there is a 2 deterrence involved, and I point out that many 3 years ago when I was a police officer and I 4 always hesitate to do this, but we always said 5 that if we could get better than 50 percent of 6 the professional burglars in the state locked 7 away in our prison system that the burglary rate 8 in our state would decline. It has and we do. 9 I have been told that that there is an estimate 10 that we have something like 65 to 70 percent of 11 the professional burglars in this state 12 incarcerated for a fairly long period of time 13 because of our second felony offender statutes, 14 and so forth, and the result has been that the 15 level of professional burglars in this state has 16 dropped rather dramatically, and I think part of 17 it is they're not there and they used to train 18 people. 19 Secondly though, I think that 20 there genuinely is a deterrence that is showing 21 up in that area just as I think it's showing up 22 and beginning to show up in car theft as when we 23 changed the statute back to grand larceny where 6704 1 we're beginning to see some decrease in car 2 theft finally after we changed the law years ago 3 and changed it to unauthorized use of a motor 4 vehicle and the car thefts doubled, tripled, 5 quintupled, went up like 20 times in the period 6 of about five years. 7 My answer is very quickly, I 8 don't think that project has a lot of validity. 9 When you say it doesn't have room for younger 10 people, the trick is to make sure that the 11 people who are the professionals, if you want to 12 call them professional felons, are locked up for 13 as long as possible, get them off the streets 14 and make sure that young people understand that 15 they may be headed in the same direction and I 16 think that, I think, is a very valid premise. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator 20 Volker would continue to yield? 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Volker, you continue to yield? The Senator 6705 1 continues to yield. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, this 3 is really a point of clarification, not a point 4 of adversarialness. You're saying that the 5 deterrence is to the individual or just where 6 the statistics are related to that particular 7 crime? 8 SENATOR VOLKER: No, I'm talking 9 about the particular crime involved and the 10 overall, you're talking about the overall 11 deterrence, but I'm saying in the -- when you 12 look at deterrence, you can't look at it on the 13 basis of an individual case obviously. You've 14 got to look at it on an overall -- the overall 15 balance of things just as, you know, one of the 16 arguments in the death penalty was that -- that 17 deterrence is not based on any individual cases 18 and as the lack of a death penalty in this 19 country, now there is not only just a lack of a 20 death penalty but a lack of executions, the 21 murder rate soars and the contention, I think, 22 is if you are looking at the aggregate and 23 looking at overall and the reason that the 6706 1 burglary -- I mentioned the burglary situation 2 because there we have an overall view of an 3 issue and, by the way, the so-called 4 professional people who look at these things 5 don't even want to look at burglary, they'd 6 prefer not to because they know it's a bad - 7 it's a bad area to look at, so one of the ways 8 in which some of the people who oppose long 9 sentences do, they only look at areas that they 10 think might tend to back up their contentions 11 just to even it out. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Accepting what 16 Senator Volker says, it just brings me to this 17 basic premise which is that we would want to 18 have the most violent individuals in our society 19 behind bars and, that being the case, we have to 20 negotiate with a backlog of cases, an over 21 emphasis on plea bargaining. 22 Unfortunately, even with the 23 rapid expansion, often not enough cells to 6707 1 contain the -- the skyrocketing rate of crime, 2 and so what I think we're really trying to say 3 here is that you have individuals who we think 4 are 40, 50, 55 years old, who are aging out in 5 terms of the statistical potential of their 6 violence, and we have individuals who are 7 committing felonies who are younger and are 8 probably more apt to do it again, and there is 9 even less deterrence when we plea bargain then 10 rather than incarcerating them. That's just a 11 point I'm making, but I'd like to go on to a 12 different area if Senator Volker is willing to 13 yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Volker, do you yield to another question? 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 18 Volker, it seems -- and I don't want to put - 19 attribute statements to you that you haven't 20 made, but it seems that you don't think that 21 there's a significant fiscal impact as a result 22 of this bill, but it would certainly seem to me 23 that, if you're having more prisoners serving 6708 1 longer periods of time, that there would be 2 almost an automatic fiscal impact. Would you 3 elaborate on that for me? 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, first of 5 all, I think you have to keep in mind that - 6 that you can't -- you must look at this from the 7 standpoint of the practical aspects of this. 8 There certainly would be no initial impact 9 because what would happen here is that somebody 10 who committed a third offense, even under the 11 present structure, the average judge even in New 12 York City -- and I say "even in New York City" 13 because we still, I think, find that New York 14 City judges have had a tendency to sentence at a 15 much lower rate -- but even in New York City, 16 the likelihood that any judge is going to 17 sentence a third violent felony offender -- and 18 let's keep that in mind -- this is not just the 19 ordinary criminals. If this is a third violent 20 felony offender, by the way, they probably have 21 been arrested 40 or 50 times and may have 22 committed at least a dozen crimes because DAs in 23 New York City generally "worst out" cases where 6709 1 they don't have people that have been around for 2 quite a while; but you got to keep in mind here, 3 I think, the situation that we have, and I think 4 that -- that with these types of people they're 5 probably -- they probably would have been, under 6 the old law, sentenced to a minimum of perhaps 7 ten years anyway, but what we're saying here is 8 that we are now setting a higher standard and 9 that higher standard is 25 years. 10 The judge could have sentenced 11 them to as high as -- to that technically I 12 suppose before, because the minimum was only 13 ten. We are saying that this will, over the 14 long haul, have an impact on the system, but if 15 all the things that we are doing -- and this is 16 one of them -- impact as we feel that they will, 17 we feel that we can see a decrease in the 18 numbers of people in our prison system and 19 that's what we're aiming for; but the initial 20 impact of this will be zero. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: I want to 6710 1 thank Senator Volker. He is gracious as he 2 always is, for answering the questions quite 3 thoroughly, and just to address the legislation 4 itself, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Paterson, on the bill. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: I think that 8 we have to be very careful. This is a well 9 intended piece of legislation, and it may have 10 some very good results from it, but often George 11 Will talks about the doctrines of unintended 12 consequences, and I think that this bill may be 13 an example of it. 14 I have with me an article from 15 the New York Times from March 26th, and it is 16 entitled California Courtrooms Overrun by Trials 17 and Backlogs, and it really is relating to the 18 fact that, on the third offense, facing a 19 25-year sentence, many defendants are not 20 pleading to the charge or to a lower count, they 21 are simply eschewing the opportunity to take the 22 plea and going directly to trial, and Senator 23 Volker and many here do not need any lesson on 6711 1 plea bargaining, but for those who are somewhat 2 unaware, the plea bargain really is the 3 defendant playing the percentage of having an 4 opportunity to have a lesser sentence in 5 exchange for not going to trial and risking a 6 greater sentence. 7 When you remove that by enabling 8 the district attorney to seek a 25-year sentence 9 on a particular charge, it now being the third 10 charge, the third strike, we then are faced with 11 the situation as they are seeing it in 12 California. We have a tremendous backlog of 13 cases and, when you have a tremendous backlog of 14 cases, you also have a higher rate of acquittals 15 and so what we would certainly hope not to do in 16 this particular piece of legislation, and I know 17 that Senator Volker did not intend it to be that 18 way, is to have a situation where we're causing 19 more problems in our criminal justice system and 20 in our incarceration facilities than we have at 21 the present time. 22 It's just our opinion that we are 23 weighing and balancing the values of stricter 6712 1 punishment, particularly for predicate felons 2 and repeat offenders, as opposed to the idea of 3 the best way of curbing the violence in the 4 areas where the crime rate is -- is the 5 highest. 6 I will certainly look into what 7 Senator Volker stated, which is that he disputes 8 what the sentencing project of 1994 is 9 contending, that there is an age-out of violent 10 offenders, but I think that we all need to take 11 a second look as to whether or not this 12 legislation will cure the problem or exacerbate 13 the courtroom procedures that would create a 14 greater problem in the criminal justice system. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Waldon. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. 19 If Senator Volker would be kind 20 enough to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Volker, do you yield to Senator Waldon for a 23 question? Senator yields. 6713 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. Thank you, Senator Volker. 3 Senator, is there any discretion 4 in the judge hearing a particular case with the 5 circumstances as presented in your proposal to 6 circumvent the mandatory minimum sentence? 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I'd 8 like to say to you that there is absolutely no 9 discretion, but we know that that's not true. I 10 mean it's like saying if there's no discretion 11 under the Rockefeller judge laws, and we've done 12 numerous studies of that, that, although we knew 13 the answer before we even looked, that there are 14 all sorts of ways in which you can potentially 15 get around. The D.A. can reduce indictments; 16 the judge can order the D.A. to relook at the 17 sentencing structure. There's technically 18 speaking -- I say "technically" and keep in mind 19 one thing here, that these are not -- no one is 20 contending, I would hope, that these are 21 non-violent people. 22 Obviously these are people who 23 have committed a very serious offense three 6714 1 times and been convicted three times. I'd point 2 out again that the history, if you look at the 3 criminal histories of these people, you will 4 find they certainly just didn't commit three 5 crimes. I mean the histories of these kinds of 6 people is that they have probably committed 7 anywhere from 15 to 20 to 25 crimes because 8 they're not caught or they have reduced 9 sentences. In fact, under the Rockefeller drug 10 laws, we find a number of people who have pled 11 to long sentences under the Rockefeller drug 12 laws because they would have been subject to 13 violent offenses that would have put them away 14 even longer. 15 So that a lot of these people 16 that we sometimes classify as non-violent are 17 only non-violent because the bullets that they 18 fired missed, although that's an exaggeration 19 maybe, but what I'm pointing out to you is these 20 are pretty serious people, and the answer to you 21 is, under the law, they must be, if they're a 22 third violent felony offender and they're 23 convicted, that they must be sentenced to 25 - 6715 1 a minimum of 25 years and then obviously a 2 maximum of life. They could be sentenced to the 3 25 and from there would be subject to parole 4 after that. 5 So the answer is, technically 6 speaking, the judge would have no option, but in 7 these cases we do know there are various ways in 8 which there could be an option depending on a 9 situation. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 13 you. Secretary will read the last section. 14 Senator Abate. 15 SENATOR ABATE: I'd like to 16 explain my vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6716 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Abate to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Senator 4 Volker, we agree on a number of things. This is 5 where, although I think we understand that there 6 are violent offenders in the community that need 7 to do long sentences, if you look at the current 8 Penal Law, PPL, the scope of punishment 9 available to judges is already extremely lengthy 10 as it relates to persistent violent felony 11 offenders. 12 Right now, a judge who reviews an 13 individual case can already sentence that 14 individual to 25 to life and the minimum they 15 could sentence that persistent felony offender 16 is six to life. That is the -- the worst 17 scenario, and I believe that there certainly are 18 offenders who deserve 25 to life but not all 19 persistent felony offenders. There will be some 20 cases where a judge will look at the age of the 21 defendant, when those two prior felonies, 22 convictions occurred, they may have occurred ten 23 years, not ten years, but nine years prior. 6717 1 They may have been addicted on drugs at the time 2 when they committed the other felony offenses. 3 There may be mitigating circumstances that the 4 judge cannot take into consideration when we 5 tell all judges all persistent felony offenders 6 must be sentenced to 25 years to life. 7 Senator Volker, I would agree 8 with you if the sentence structure did not allow 9 currently for life imprisonment in certain 10 cases. I think our jail and prison systems now, 11 the beds available are precious resources. I do 12 add here, and the studies I have read, that 13 people do, in fact, age out of crime, that more 14 and more people are committing violent crime. 15 It used to be up to 24, now it's even being 16 lowered. The bulk of the crimes are being 17 committed by people less than 20 years of age. 18 So in terms of effective crime 19 policy, effective sentencing policy, how we're 20 going to use our resources effectively to stem 21 the tide of violent crime, I think this is a 22 misuse of these resources. I want to see not 23 our incarcerating people when they're 50 and 60 6718 1 when they're no longer in the danger of putting 2 that money into law enforcement efforts, into 3 police, into crime victims programs, parole, 4 probation and treatment. That, in the long run, 5 will make our streets safer. 6 I vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Abate will be recorded in the negative. 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar 822 are Senators Abate, 12 Connor, Espada, Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, 13 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 46, nays 8. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we take up Calendar 976, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the title of Calendar Number 976. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 47, 22 Calendar Number 976, by Senator Saland, Senate 23 Print 1424, an act to amend the Education Law, 6719 1 in relation to making certain incarcerated 2 persons ineligible for certain general tuition 3 awards. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Saland, an explanation has been asked for by 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 9 this bill is a bill which would exclude inmates 10 currently serving time in our correctional 11 facilities from eligibility for the Tuition 12 Assistance Program. 13 The Tuition Assistance Program or 14 the so-called TAP program, is a means-driven 15 program which would apply to anybody who was 16 otherwise qualified in terms of academics to 17 obtain this particular taxpayer-funded benefit. 18 I feel that the $5 million that's currently 19 being spent for this program for inmates could 20 be better spent providing additional grants for 21 -- for people, young people throughout the 22 state of New York, who are desperately seeking 23 to better their opportunities and their futures 6720 1 by way of obtaining a college education, and 2 these TAP monies would assist them in that 3 endeavor. 4 This measure apparently has been 5 taken up by the Governor as well. I know he has 6 advocated it, so I believe it may well form at 7 least in part a portion of one of his budget 8 bills. I would think that this is the type of 9 measure that this house should adopt as we have 10 in prior years, only to be stymied by former 11 Governor Cuomo and the Assembly. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Waldon, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR WALDON: I would like to 15 know if the learned Senator would yield to a 16 question from me? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Waldon. Senator Paterson did have the floor 19 initially. Do you want to wait until he's 20 finished? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Senator, I'm 22 looking for the learned Senator. I'll see if I 23 can find him. 6721 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson, you have the floor. Do you want to 3 yield to Senator Waldon, or do you wish to 4 continue your questions? 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 I'm also looking for the learned Senator. Since 7 I think it's Senator Waldon, I'll yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 9 right, Senator Waldon. Senator Paterson yields 10 to you. You have the floor. 11 SENATOR WALDON: And I thank the 12 good Senator for doing that, Mr. President. 13 Senator Saland, have you had any 14 consultations with the administrators of the 15 Department of Correctional Services as to 16 whether or not they support this measure? 17 SENATOR SALAND: I have not 18 spoken with any of the superintendents of any of 19 the facilities. I have not received anything 20 either in favor or in opposition from 21 Corrections Department or any of their 22 representatives. 23 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 6722 1 Mr. President, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Saland, do you continue to yield to Senator 4 Waldon? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 yields. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, have 10 you recently visited any of the prisons and had 11 any conversations with the inmates therein in 12 regard to their need, their desire for 13 educational opportunities? 14 SENATOR SALAND: I generally 15 visit at least one facility a year. I have not 16 done that yet this year, but I'm sure before 17 this calendar year is out, I will have visited 18 at least one and perhaps two or three of them. 19 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 20 continue. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Saland, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 6723 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR WALDON: In your most 5 recent visits to the prisons, whichever prisons 6 they were, did you have any conversations with 7 the inmates as to the benefits and/or negatives 8 received from educational opportunities? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Senator, while 10 I've been to numerous facilities and on many 11 different occasions, this particular topic has 12 not been one to that either I've initiated nor 13 have any of the inmate groups or representatives 14 that I've spoken with initiated with me. 15 My sense of the need for this 16 legislation is that there is a vast population 17 on the other side of the world, the same side 18 that you and I are on, that are desperately in 19 need of assistance in order to provide them with 20 the kinds of educational opportunities that we 21 would like them to have. 22 I view the $5 million currently 23 serving some 5,000 inmates as being money we 6724 1 could spend in a more appropriate fashion as 2 taxpayer dollars, and I believe those taxpayer 3 dollars would better go to middle class and - 4 and struggling young students who are desperate 5 for the opportunity to go to college, and I 6 don't think I really have to -- to inquire of 7 the inmate population as to whether they agree 8 or disagree. 9 It may well be that, you know, 10 that they have would very much like to have this 11 opportunity, but in terms of priorities, I think 12 there are others who priorities I think there 13 are others who would better be served by having 14 this opportunity. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 16 Senator continue to yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Saland, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, sir. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 continues to yield. 22 SENATOR WALDON: I thank you, Mr. 23 President. 6725 1 I'll try to be brief, Senator 2 Saland. Are you aware of the current data in 3 regard to the success ratios or rates of those 4 who - 5 SENATOR SALAND: Sorry, Senator. 6 Would you speak up? I just heard, are you aware 7 of the current data and then I lost you. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Are you aware of 9 the current information in the universe, the 10 correctional service universe, in regard to 11 reductions in recidivism rates amongst those who 12 are afforded an opportunity for education versus 13 those who are not? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Senator, I'm not 15 proposing that those in the correction setting 16 be denied the opportunity for education. Those 17 who may need help, whether it's vocational, 18 whether it's remedial, whether it's GED, by all 19 means, I think they should be able to afford - 20 afford themselves or avail themselves of that 21 opportunity. 22 I draw the line at the college 23 level. I draw the line at that level, because I 6726 1 find it inequitable, to say the least, to have 2 taxpayers funding college educations when they 3 are having an extraordinarily difficult time and 4 sometimes a virtually impossible time providing 5 the means for their own children to attain 6 college education, and I believe that that $5 7 million pool of money will better serve those 8 who are under-served, whether it's in your 9 district, in my district, or any one of the 61 10 Senate Districts throughout this state. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Saland, 12 if you would yield to just one or two more 13 questions, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Saland, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 continues to yield. 20 SENATOR WALDON: My dear 21 colleague, you did not respond to the question 22 or I think you did not respond. Maybe I'm 23 wrong. 6727 1 I asked, are you aware of the 2 recent information in regard to the reduction of 3 recidivism rates amongst those who are afforded 4 an opportunity to be educated while in prison 5 versus those who are not? If I'm not clear in 6 the question, tell me so, and I'll rephrase it. 7 SENATOR SALAND: You're certainly 8 clear, Senator, and I'm not sure if that's by 9 way of study or anecdotal. I have heard of such 10 barometers. I'm not sure again whether it's by 11 way of study or just anecdotal information but, 12 as I said to you prior in answer to your prior 13 question, I'm not saying provide an education. 14 I'm saying there are limits to what you can 15 expect taxpayers to provide by way of education, 16 and again, not to be repetitive, I think there 17 are people in your district and mine who would 18 be far better served by being able to access 19 this pool of money than people behind the wall, 20 some of whom may never get out, may never get 21 out into society again and still have taxpayers 22 fund their education. I do have a problem with 23 that. 6728 1 SENATOR WALDON: Last two 2 questions, Mr. President, if I may. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Saland, do you yield? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, sir. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR WALDON: All right. 9 Senator, what is the cost to the taxpayers of 10 the state of New York of all of the TAP grants 11 given to those who are in prison for this past 12 year or what was the cost, I should say? 13 SENATOR SALAND: $5 million. 14 SENATOR WALDON: And what 15 percentage - 16 SENATOR SALAND: Approximately $5 17 million. 18 SENATOR WALDON: I should have 19 tagged that. And what percentage of the budget 20 of the Department of Correctional Services is 21 the $5 million? 22 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not sure if 23 that's part of the Department of Corrections 6729 1 budget. I would think that it's merely, as I 2 said, a means-driven TAP grant that would not be 3 part of the -- of the DOCS budget. If your 4 question is, do I know how much TAP money - 5 SENATOR WALDON: The way I 6 phrased it, I couched the question incorrect 7 ly. Do - 8 SENATOR SALAND: Is the question, 9 do I -- do you want to rephrase the question or 10 how much TAP monies in total? 11 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize -- I 12 apologize for the way it came out. The $5 13 million, if it were part of the Department of 14 Correctional Services budget, what are the 15 percentages or what proportion of it would it 16 be? 17 I've heard that it's equal to one 18 day of the Department of Correctional Services 19 budget, its total budget. 20 SENATOR SALAND: I couldn't 21 respond to that, Senator. I believe that the 22 DOCS budget probably, and I'm -- I do this most 23 guardedly, but I believe it's probably somewhere 6730 1 in the billion dollar range, and I'm not quite 2 sure if I'm -- how much I'm off but, you know, 3 it's -- I believe it's a minimum a billion and 4 probably maybe as much as 1.3, 1.4, but I -- I 5 would not recommend that you rely on that 6 number. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Last question, 8 Mr. President, if I may. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Saland, do you yield for one last question from 11 Senator Waldon? 12 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, sir. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 yields. 15 SENATOR WALDON: And I thank you, 16 Senator Saland, for your indulgence. 17 Let me preamble my question with 18 something. We all recall, I believe and I 19 believe you do as well, Attica. I'm sure that 20 you recall recently the uprising at Sing Sing 21 and I'm sure being that you've visited many 22 prisons over the course of your public life, and 23 you certainly are here in the Senate, but you 6731 1 are aware of how important it is to the 2 administrators of the Department of Correctional 3 Services, the superintendents and wardens and 4 the staff, that there be peace, calm and 5 tranquil prisons, and I would like to know on a 6 gut level, on a gut check level, do you think 7 that it's wise to create a potential or to 8 create something which may foment a potential 9 problem for those who staff the prisons by 10 creating animosity from the prisoners by taking 11 away this opportunity for education? 12 SENATOR SALAND: If I thought 13 that somehow or other, as your question implies, 14 that this was going to foment insurrection or 15 instability in our correction system, I would be 16 loathe to bring it before this house. I do not 17 believe that to be the case. 18 There are, as I said earlier, a 19 host of educational related tools that will be 20 available within facilities as well as other 21 types of programs or activities that are 22 maintained at facilities. My problem with the 23 current program is the fact that we are asking 6732 1 taxpayers to pay some $5 million, people in your 2 district are paying it, people in my district 3 are paying it, people from every corner of this 4 state are paying it, for inmates when, in fact, 5 there are probably thousands of young people 6 starving for the opportunity to avail this grant 7 money to be able to obtain a college education. 8 I believe the emphasis should be, 9 as I said earlier, on our side of the wall, not 10 on the other side of the wall. 11 SENATOR WALDON: If I may speak 12 on the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Waldon, on the bill. 15 SENATOR WALDON: One, let me 16 thank you, Senator Saland, for responding as you 17 did and taking the time and effort to attempt to 18 answer my questions. I believe that this is 19 another instance of being penny-wise and pound 20 foolish. To ensure that just for the safety of 21 the people who work in prisons, that the people 22 there have opportunities which will, if not 23 preclude, at least diminish the potential for 6733 1 uprisings, I think, is a smart thing to do, but 2 perhaps more intelligent is to allow people to 3 turn their lives around. 4 We stack people like cord wood in 5 prisons. We do not really rehabilitate in this 6 nation and, if there is a rehabilitative effort, 7 it's either through some religious occurrence in 8 many instances -- the Muslims in prison do a 9 good job -- or through somebody having an 10 opportunity for education, and I'd like to cite 11 Elisha, a young man from the Rockaways who 12 achieved his Master's degree while in prison and 13 is now an outstanding productive citizen in the 14 city of New York. Would he have been such an 15 outstanding productive citizen if not given the 16 opportunity for education? 17 The money is de minimus. I think 18 more accurately, the Department of Correctional 19 Services total budget for instruction and 20 operational services is in excess of $2 billion 21 and someone can -- from staff can correct me on 22 that if I'm wrong -- and so we're talking about 23 pennies in the equation in terms of having an 6734 1 opportunity to have a peaceful -- and I don't 2 think we should buy peace, but it's important - 3 a peaceful, calm existence for the correction 4 officers as well as the prisoners. 5 I don't diminish the need for 6 children to be educated. Our children in our 7 immediate family were educated and my wife and I 8 had to pay, so I understand, about $22,000 a 9 year monies for education at a college in this 10 country, and that's just the piece that doesn't 11 include his clothes or her clothes or the travel 12 to and from. So I am very cognizant of that, 13 and I'm cognizant of the fact the educational 14 budget is huge, but I think there are other ways 15 we can deal with the educational budget both 16 SUNY, CUNY and secondary schools, without 17 diminishing this opportunity for the prisoners. 18 I think we should do it. I think 19 it's judicious to do it. I would encourage my 20 colleagues to do it and vote yes for prisoners 21 but not yes for this bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 6735 1 Senator Paterson. You wish to 2 speak on the bill? 3 SENATOR PATERSON: I wish that 4 Senator Saland would grant me the opportunity to 5 ask a couple of questions. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Saland, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 8 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Saland, do you yield? Senator yields. I might 12 add most deferentially. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 14 I -- thank you. 15 I think that I have a 16 philosophical problem with the whole process and 17 it's not necessarily your bill. Let me try to 18 explain it, and I just want to get your 19 reflections on it. 20 What you're saying is, and it has 21 to hit home with every taxpayer is that how can 22 we be spending money on inmates when people who 23 work for a living and are either trying to 6736 1 sponsor their own children in higher education 2 or the poor student who may apply and not get 3 TAP is actually standing in line behind the 4 inmate; and I want to ask you to comment on it 5 because I would assume that that's how you feel 6 and that's how I feel. 7 So at first blush, I think this 8 is an area where there's total agreement. Do 9 you think it would be better if we had a system 10 where the entire education of inmates were 11 sponsored through the Corrections budget so we 12 don't even have to have that sort of adversarial 13 nature, in other words, where we're comparing 14 dollars as they would be distributed to students 15 and inmates when there really -- when we're 16 really doing two different things. 17 In one case, we're enhancing 18 education and in the other case we're trying to 19 effect some form of rehabilitation. Don't you 20 think it would be a better idea if just 21 structurally we did not have any money for 22 prisoners coming out of any of the educational 23 budgets whether it be TAP or Educational 6737 1 Opportunity Program or any other Regents 2 scholarship? 3 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not quite 4 sure if you've asked me more than one question 5 there, but to the extent that you're asking me 6 whether I would want to see no state funds 7 driven outside of the Correction budget by 8 programs such as TAP or Regents into the 9 Corrections system, I would say to you yes, the 10 answer to that is yes. 11 I think there is another part to 12 your question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, that's 16 exactly what I'm suggesting. In other words, I 17 think that is what creates the sort of friction 18 that's being addressed by your legislation is 19 the fact that the students and the inmates are 20 drawing money from the same hole in the first 21 place, and so while we may disagree on how far 22 we want to go in the education of the inmates 23 I'm just saying that the point of contentious 6738 1 ness doesn't arise from your legislation. I 2 think it arises from the fact that we have this 3 system right now which I don't think I'm in 4 agreement with, where we are in a sense putting 5 inmates either ahead or behind students, and I 6 just think that they're drawing from the same 7 hole, and I just think it's -- I just don't 8 think it's right. I just don't think it's a 9 good way to be educating students by having them 10 competing in a sense with inmates for tuition 11 assistance and in doing that, we're creating a 12 situation where we're having to compare and we 13 shouldn't be comparing because it's clear to 14 everyone here that the student who does not have 15 a criminal record should, as a society, be 16 preferred over the inmate. 17 Wouldn't you say that's correct? 18 SENATOR SALAND: I would say so. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Now, let me go 20 on, and I just wanted to get that cleared up 21 because maybe, if we can get that understood, we 22 can go on and perhaps see what the point of 23 disagreement is. 6739 1 SENATOR SALAND: Patiently 2 waiting for the other shoe. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: No, actually 4 on that point, it's really not connected to the 5 disagreements I may have with you. I think what 6 I'm really just trying to point out to my 7 colleagues and everyone else here is that it's 8 the structure as it exists right now that has us 9 in the position of having to have the sort of 10 adversarial discussion where basically we all 11 agree. 12 Now, I want to move the 13 discussion to the rehabilitation of the actual 14 inmates and ask you if we passed legislation as 15 we have done and, if we put it into law, where 16 the inmate has to pay back the monies that are 17 distributed for education and now we are 18 creating a situation where we're going to 19 extinguish the possibility that they can receive 20 TAP, how would the inmate actually get an 21 education? 22 They wouldn't be able to pay the 23 money back because they -- there's no funding 6740 1 source to put the money up front; is that 2 correct? 3 SENATOR SALAND: Well, I'm not 4 sure, and I believe you're referring to what 5 Senator Cook's bill contemplated, using TAP 6 monies as a -- as a resource to draw on to pay 7 back. I think Senator Cook's bill as 8 distinguished from this bill basically said, if 9 you've received help, you're going to wind up 10 having to pay back, and this bill perhaps is a 11 bit more severe, if not even more draconian than 12 Senator Cook's bill inasmuch as it says we're 13 not going to afford you that opportunity. We 14 are just going to deny that funding stream in 15 its entirety. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Just a quick 19 point of clarification. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Saland, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 6741 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Saland continues to yield, Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 4 Saland, you said that this bill relates to TAP. 5 Does it relate to all financial services? For 6 instance, some of the financial services that 7 used to exist, Regents scholarships and that 8 kind of thing, things that we don't have right 9 now. Is the spirit of your legislation that it 10 would be more than just TAP but any kind of 11 financial services to students? 12 SENATOR SALAND: I have -- I have 13 spoken, and my comments on the floor have 14 referred to the TAP program, but the bill itself 15 talks in terms of any award or loan and makes 16 reference back to the Education Law, so I would 17 think that it could well be broader than merely 18 TAP. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Good. That's 20 very clear. So now, I guess the final line of 21 questioning I would ask you would relate to the 22 kind of situation as we had in the case of the 23 state Supreme Court case of the State v. Ciro in 6742 1 the early '70s where they ruled that the New 2 York City -- that the New York State 3 correctional facilities were not rehabilitating; 4 they were simply incarcerating and as a point of 5 just simply philosophy, to what extent do you 6 think inmates should be rehabilitated? 7 SENATOR SALAND: I think that to 8 the extent possible, to the extent that 9 resources permit programs that will assist in 10 rehabilitation then we must to that extent avail 11 ourselves of those resources. I think that 12 there are a number of inmates who don't lend 13 themselves to rehabilitation. 14 I think we have an obligation to 15 make sure that those who are in need of 16 obtaining the basic public and secondary school 17 education are afforded that opportunity. I 18 believe to the extent that there are entities 19 such as Corcraft and vocational training that we 20 should be enabling people to avail themselves of 21 that as well. 22 I do, as I've mentioned in my 23 comments both in response to Senator Waldon and 6743 1 my opening remarks, Senator, and my comments to 2 you, believe that that line should be drawn, the 3 educational opportunity line should be drawn at 4 the college level. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Finally, if 6 Senator Saland would yield for one further 7 question? 8 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Do you have 11 any further information, because I don't know 12 where Council 82 of the Correction Officers 13 stand on this type of legislation? 14 SENATOR SALAND: I have not 15 received any either memo or any inquiry from 16 them as far as I know, and I believe this is 17 perhaps the third year that I've offered this 18 bill. I'd be more than happy if I had one to 19 share it with you, but I don't believe that I 20 have received any. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6744 1 I'd like to thank Senator Saland very much. 2 He's been most gracious in his answers, I think, 3 if I can speak to the bill at this time. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson, on the bill. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: His answers 7 indicate, I think, what would be the desire of 8 all of us here, that we not give any preferen 9 tial treatment to individuals who have violated 10 their contract with society and have been 11 incarcerated in correctional facilities due to 12 violations of our criminal justice code, and I 13 think that that is something that gets distorted 14 in its perception when we start giving tuition 15 assistance and Regents scholarships to 16 individuals who are behind bars. 17 What I would prefer would be a 18 system where we have had an educational entity 19 built right into the corrections budget that 20 would stand on its own, even if it gave grants 21 to inmates which Senator Saland might oppose and 22 I might support, but at the same time at least 23 it would be clear what we're actually trying to 6745 1 do. 2 The position, I think, that 3 Senator Waldon was espousing in his remarks I 4 think were well taken positions, that when we 5 are incarcerating individuals we have to 6 understand that in the great majority of cases, 7 these individuals are coming back into society. 8 When they come back into society, as far as I'm 9 concerned, my point of view to them is you've 10 paid your debt to society and we don't want to 11 see you again. We don't want to have anything 12 to do with you. So I regard the management of 13 parolees as a business. What would be the best 14 business procedure that we, the state, don't 15 have to do business with these individuals in - 16 in correctional facilities again? 17 I think the most effective 18 treatment of this situation is the proliferation 19 of education. Education, maybe not in all cases 20 but certainly over the years, has proven to be a 21 direct corollary response to criminal justice 22 activity. The higher the educational level in 23 schools, the further children go in schools, the 6746 1 less involvement they seem to have in crime and 2 so now that we have got individuals who have 3 already put themselves in the position where 4 they are a problem for society even when they 5 come back out onto the streets, what we are 6 suggesting is that the best preparation, 7 particularly for those who reach out to them, 8 would be to provide them with the best possible 9 education. 10 Now, a high school education is 11 not enough. Most jobs require an 11th grade 12 education, and yet any job more advanced 13 requires often two years of college. Even these 14 days people who have clerical jobs have to have 15 computer access. Messengers have to know how to 16 read. Individuals who are often working what we 17 used to consider to be rather menial tasks 18 require a great deal of training and a great 19 deal of personal knowledge to effect. 20 If individuals are coming out of 21 incarcerational facilities and they are being 22 denied the opportunity to work in youth 23 services, they're being denied the opportunity 6747 1 to work in correctional facilities themselves, 2 if they're being denied the opportunity to work 3 in schools or around children, then we have to 4 ask ourselves, what kind of jobs can they 5 actually hold? And what education are we giving 6 them to hold those jobs? 7 I'm not saying this on behalf of 8 the inmates. I think some of their situations 9 are dire and it's unfortunate that they're in 10 the position that they're in, but for purposes 11 of this discussion, we don't care about the 12 inmates. We care about society as a whole and 13 mostly about individuals who can not not commit 14 crimes. I don't want to see individuals who, by 15 the desperation of the fact that they don't have 16 any other alternative violating the laws of our 17 society where they might otherwise have a choice 18 if we would just provide them with some 19 instrumentality or ability to go out and find 20 themselves some jobs. 21 That's why I oppose this bill, 22 but I think the spirit of the bill is well 23 merited, which is that we should not have 6748 1 students in our society standing in line behind 2 inmates competing for tuition assistance that 3 comes from taxpayer dollars. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Abate. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Senator 7 Saland. Would you yield to a question? It seems 8 as though you haven't had the opportunity to 9 answer enough questions over the last couple of 10 days. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Saland, do you yield? 13 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 14 Senator. Yes, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 yields. 17 SENATOR ABATE: I want to assure 18 you have sufficient opportunity to speak. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 20 SENATOR ABATE: I want to point 21 to the language of the bill and ask why you 22 permit a distinction. You say you permit access 23 to aid by persons on parole. Why do you -- why 6749 1 do you make that decision in favor of parolees 2 and not incarcerated inmates? 3 SENATOR SALAND: Because if 4 someone is out of the facility and they are out 5 on parole and they are in the community and they 6 are otherwise eligible, they, in effect, served 7 their time. They are endeavoring to try and 8 abide by whatever it is that the parole program 9 would impose upon them. If they're eligible, 10 they're academically suited, we don't say that 11 we're going to preclude them. They're outside, 12 they're trying to get their lives together. 13 They're trying to work and we believe that those 14 two classifications are distinguishable. 15 SENATOR ABATE: But could you say 16 that the same thing could be said about people 17 who have been sentenced because of the crime, 18 they are paying back their debt to society even 19 in prison? They're beginning to try to put their 20 life together and through education that speeds 21 up on their ability to become productive 22 citizens, couldn't you say the same thing about 23 inmates as you just said about parolees? 6750 1 SENATOR SALAND: I would make the 2 distinction and feel it's a valid distinction. 3 I certainly can appreciate your -- your point of 4 view, but particularly I find troublesome the 5 idea that taxpayers are being asked to fund 6 those people who are serving time and often at 7 the expense of people, as I've said several 8 times here this afternoon, within each and every 9 one of our districts who are struggling to try 10 and obtain a college education and find that 11 they can't access these grants. 12 I want to make this $5 million 13 pool of money available for more TAP grants so 14 that more young people can afford or have an 15 opportunity for a college education. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator 17 Saland yield to another question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Saland, do you yield to another question? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 yields. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Senator, 6751 1 you've been very clear that you do not think it 2 an appropriate expenditure of money because 3 there are law-abiding citizens that should get 4 this first dollar, but I suspect if you ask that 5 parent of that student what they care about, 6 clearly they care about access to education for 7 their child, but I also believe they care about 8 the safety of that child and, if you believe 9 that education helps inmates while they're 10 incarcerated so when they leave they're less 11 angry, they're less prepared to commit the next 12 crime and they're less prepared to victimize 13 again, wouldn't you say that, by spending that 14 money, you're addressing the concerns of that 15 parent as vis-a-vis the education of their child 16 and also the safety of their child? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Well, what I 18 would have to say is, I think you put a little 19 more store or stock in rehabilitation than 20 perhaps I do. Given rates of recidivism, I'm 21 not quite sure that you can make a connection 22 between the fact that we're providing education 23 within the current correctional system at a 6752 1 college level and a reduction, a significant 2 reduction, in the rate of recidivism. I'm not 3 quite sure that happens, and I'm not quite sure 4 how far you could distinguish without getting 5 into equal protection problems between people 6 who will never be getting out, never be getting 7 out or getting out at such a stage in their life 8 that they could never be productive people 9 within our society, meaningfully returning those 10 contributions that taxpayers have made to enable 11 them to get that education and those who might 12 get out at a point in time in which they might 13 be able to make some meaningful contributions. 14 I don't think you're capable of drafting 15 anything that can make those distinctions. 16 SENATOR ABATE: But Senator 17 Saland, you would agree - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Saland, you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 continues to yield. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you, 6753 1 Senator. 2 Of course, you agree there are a 3 huge number of people that do eventually get out 4 of prison and, while I would not be one to be 5 irresponsible, to say that every educated inmate 6 will leave and not commit another crime there 7 are a number, there's a subset of that 8 population that will not commit crimes again and 9 if we do something to educate that one inmate 10 and we save one victim, wouldn't you say the 11 money is well spent and wouldn't that parent 12 agree with you if it was their child who was 13 saved some harm down the road? 14 SENATOR SALAND: I would say - 15 SENATOR ABATE: If we saved one 16 victim. 17 SENATOR SALAND: I would say to 18 you, Senator, that in the scheme of some 68,000 19 people currently serving within our correction 20 system, that if the standard becomes how we 21 manage to focus or isolate on one case as being 22 the measure of whether or not we've succeeded or 23 failed within our correction system, then that 6754 1 certainly would not be an accurate reflection of 2 our correction system. 3 I am not going to tell you that 4 somebody who receives an education may not 5 somehow or other, because of that opportunity, 6 find themselves following another career or 7 another career path when they leave the 8 correction facility. You're also not going to 9 tell me, as your comments imply, that simply 10 because they received that, we are going to know 11 that they are going to travel down a path that 12 you and I would hope that they would travel and 13 one which would be more meaningful and more 14 productive in our society. 15 Our rehabilitation at best over 16 the course of the past decade and perhaps the 17 two decades, has basically been shown to have at 18 best checkered results. While in the '60s it 19 was very much in fashion, very much in favor of 20 receiving a great deal of favorable commentary 21 the rates of recidivism, regardless of whatever 22 the amounts of money that have been put into 23 corrections, into programs have not, in fact, 6755 1 stabilized, of not, in fact, gotten down. They 2 generally continue to rise and they rise not at 3 an imperceptible rate but at a relatively 4 dramatic rate. 5 There is little evidence to show 6 that rehabilitation as a philosophy has had 7 really appreciable results. That's not to say 8 that there won't be the one individual to whom 9 you're -- to whom you've referred or others that 10 are evidence of the fact that there are people 11 who can be rehabilitated, but I don't believe 12 that this bill -- passage of this bill is going 13 to somehow or other deny opportunity to those 14 who would like to pursue another life style or 15 another career upon being released from a 16 correction facility. I don't believe that. 17 I mean part of it, I believe, is 18 the will of the individual, and the fact that 19 that individual does not have the ability to 20 access a college education at taxpayer expense 21 while they're at a facility does not, I don't 22 believe, make the difference between whether 23 that person, much like any other person who 6756 1 stares at enormous challenge and prevails over 2 that enormous challenge, I don't believe that 3 that person is going to be prejudiced if, in 4 fact, they are determined to establish a 5 success, not go back to the way -- a way of 6 crime, but to try and become a meaningful member 7 of society. 8 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill, very 9 briefly. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Abate, on the bill. 12 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Saland, I 13 respectfully disagree. There are programs that 14 have been evaluated that the more you teach 15 inmates skills, increase their education levels, 16 the more likely they will be to leave and not 17 return again. 18 Again that's not a foolproof 19 solution, but the converse is true, the more 20 that inmates involve themselves in idle time, 21 don't rethink their choices, they're more apt to 22 commit and victimize again, and so we're talking 23 about spending this money wisely, not just to 6757 1 ensure that their opportunities for inmates, not 2 just because we want to be humane for inmates, 3 but we're doing it for the parent and that child 4 on the street that wants to be protected. 5 Yes, we want to ensure that they 6 have a quality education, so we spend millions 7 of dollars and billions of dollars and most of 8 our discussion in this chamber is around public 9 safety. I am suggesting, and I've seen the 10 programs that work and the valuable impact 11 education has on inmates. 12 There is a direct correlation 13 between public safety and education, and you 14 were asked before and if I could address it from 15 my experience, what would correction 16 professionals say about this bill? 17 No responsible correction 18 professional would say that, if you eliminate 19 education, that would necessarily mean there 20 would be riots. That's not the case. What they 21 would say is the more you reduce idle time in 22 the prisons, the more tension, the more violence 23 you are going to see, the more violence between 6758 1 inmates and inmates and officers and inmates, 2 and so if you want to positively impact on the 3 operation of the prisons, you need programs, 4 educational programs, drug treatment, 5 counseling, peer counseling, to foster a better 6 environment for officers as well as inmates and 7 to increase the likelihood when an inmate leaves 8 prison they'll be more productive. 9 I think it's so bad whenever we 10 use the excuse there's so many children out 11 there that can't get an education when every day 12 we talk about public safety and this will 13 enhance public safety, maybe not a hundred 14 percent, but in some measure. I think this is a 15 very unwise and ill-conceived piece of 16 legislation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6759 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 2 the results when tabulated. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar 976 are Senators Abate, 5 Connor, Espada, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, 6 Paterson, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 46, nays 9. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Present. 10 Excuse me. Senator Montgomery, 11 why do you rise? Just to stay hello. Thank 12 you. Hello! 13 Senator Present, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR PRESENT: I'm saying 15 hello too. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 17 you, and hello to you. 18 Senator Leichter wants to rise 19 and say hello too. Senator Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: And beyond 21 that, Senator. If I may have unanimous consent 22 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 364, 23 please. 6760 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 3 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 4 Calendar Number 364. 5 Senator Present. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 7 can we return to reports of standing committees? 8 I believe there's a report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 12 We'll return to reports of standing committees. 13 I'll ask the Secretary to read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 15 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 16 following bills: 17 Senate Print 68, by Senator 18 Holland, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 19 Law, in relation to the admissibility of 20 evidence of criminal possession of a weapon; 21 259, by Senator Cook, an act to 22 amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to 23 certain state lands subject to taxation in 6761 1 Sullivan County; 2 293, by Senator Cook, an act to 3 amend the County Law, in relation to review of 4 approval of names for rights of way; 5 667, by Senator Padavan, an act 6 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to making 7 citizenship documented fraud a Class E felony; 8 670, by Senator Padavan, an act 9 in relation to making unlawful immigration a 10 Class C felony; 11 1177, by Senator Sears, an act to 12 amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 13 Education Law, in relation to appointment of 14 security officers; 15 1378, by Senator Farley, an act 16 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 17 restitution and reparation; 18 1396A, by Senator Sears, an act 19 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 20 authorizing counties to impose and collect a 21 drug penalty and mandatory surcharge; 22 1967, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 23 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 6762 1 relation to the collection of court-imposed 2 financial obligations; 3 2352, by Senator Hoblock, an act 4 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 5 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled 6 substances; 7 2612, by Senator Hoblock, an act 8 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled 10 substances; 11 2650, by Senator Cook, an act to 12 amend the General Municipal Law, in relation to 13 authorizing the New York Planning Federation; 14 3065, by Senator Larkin, an act 15 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Penal 16 Law and the Family Court Act, in relation to 17 making persons 12 to 15 years of age eligible 18 for juvenile offender treatment; 19 3331, by Senator Sears, an act in 20 relation to authorizing the town of Lee, county 21 of Oneida, to lease certain park lands; 22 3737, by Senator LaValle, an act 23 to amend the Town Law, in relation to screening 6763 1 facilities in the town of Southampton; 2 3867A, by Senator Hoblock, an act 3 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 4 to allowing for the use of fire training 5 centers; 6 3960, by Senator Cook, an act in 7 relation to authorizing the dissolution of the 8 Fallsburgh Park District; 9 4169, by Senator Maziarz, an act 10 to amend the Town Law, in relation to residency 11 of the court clerk in the town of Hamlin, Monroe 12 County; 13 4727, by Senator Stafford, an act 14 authorizing the town of Dannemora, Clinton 15 County, to discontinue use as park lands, 16 certain lands heretofore acquired for park and 17 other public purposes; 18 5214, Budget Bill, an act to 19 provide postage funding to the Department of 20 Motor Vehicles and making an appropriation 21 therefor; 22 5215, Budget Bill, an act making 23 an appropriation for the support of government; 6764 1 5216, Budget Bill, an act to 2 provide for payments to municipalities and to 3 providers of medical services; 4 5217, Budget Bill, an act to 5 provide for payments to vendors under the Women, 6 Infants and Children programs and making an 7 appropriation therefor; 8 5218, Budget Bill, an act making 9 appropriations for the support of government; 10 and 11 5219, Budget Bill, an act making 12 an appropriation for the support of government. 13 All bills ordered directly for 14 third reading. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Move we adopt 18 the report of the Rules Committee. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 motion is to adopt the report of the Rules 21 Committee. All those in favor signify by saying 22 aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 6765 1 Opposed nay. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 The Rules report is adopted. 4 Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Can we take up 6 Calendar Number 1008. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read Calendar Number 1008, Senate Bill 9 5215. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1008, Senate Bill 5215, Budget Bill, an act to 12 provide postage funding to the Department of 13 Motor Vehicles and making an appropriation 14 therefor. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 is there a message of necessity at the desk on 19 this bill? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is, 21 Senator Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 23 accept it. 6766 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 2 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 3 1008. All those in favor signify by saying 4 aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The message is accepted. 9 Secretary will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Take up 20 Calendar 1009, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read calendar Number 1009. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6767 1 1009, Budget Bill, Senate Print, an act making 2 appropriation for the support of government. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 8 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 9 accept the message. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 11 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 12 1009. All those in favor signify by saying 13 aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response.). 17 The message is accepted. 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6768 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 can we take up Calendar 1010. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the title of 1010. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1010, Budget Bill, Senate Bill 5216, an act to 10 provide for payments to municipalities and to 11 providers of medical services under the medical 12 assistance program. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 16 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is, 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 20 accept the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 22 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 23 Number 1010. All those in favor signify by 6769 1 saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 message is accepted. Secretary will read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 18 can we take up Calendar 1011. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the title of Calendar 1011. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1011, Budget Bill, Senate Print 5217, an act to 23 provide for payments to vendors under the Women, 6770 1 Infants and Children program and making an 2 appropriation therefor. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 6 I move we accept the message of necessity which 7 I hope is at the desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 9 a message of necessity at the desk. The motion 10 is to accept the message of necessity on 11 Calendar Number 1011. All those in favor 12 signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Opposed nay. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 The message is accepted. 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 6771 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 5 can we take up Calendar 1012. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the title of Calendar Number 1012. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1012 Budget Bill, Senate Bill 5217, an act 10 making an appropriation for the support of 11 government. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 I move we accept the message of necessity on 16 Calendar 1012. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 19 the desk on Calendar Number 1012. All those in 20 favor signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 6772 1 The message is accepted. The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 upon information and belief, Senator Montgomery 13 had some comment that she wanted to make about 14 this bill, but she was urgently called out of 15 the chamber and I would just like the record to 16 reflect that Senator Montgomery, who is acting 17 on this particular issue, had some statements 18 that she had wanted to make. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 record will so reflect. Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6773 1 Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 could we take up Calendar 1013. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the title of Calendar 1013. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1013, Budget Bill, Senate Print 5219, an act 8 making an appropriation for the support of 9 government. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Present. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 I move we accept the message of necessity which 14 I hope is at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 16 a message of necessity at the desk. The motion 17 is to accept the message. All those in favor 18 signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The message is accepted. 23 Secretary will read the last section. 6774 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Present, we do have a 10 little housekeeping if you'd like to take care 11 of that. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 13 I believe that there is a resolution at the desk 14 presented by Senator Bruno. I ask that it be 15 read in its entirety and acted upon. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present, there is a privileged resolution at the 18 desk by Senator Bruno. I'll ask the Secretary 19 to read it in its entirety. 20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno, 21 Legislative Resolution commemorating Tax Freedom 22 Day in the state of New York May 24, 1995. 23 WHEREAS it is the sense of this 6775 1 legislative body that the positive and salutary 2 definition of the communities of the state of 3 New York remains of unparalleled importance to 4 the discharge of our shared responsibilities; 5 and 6 WHEREAS there is no substitute, 7 no alternative to the full implementation of 8 that prerogative; on the contrary, the safe, 9 sure and prosperous definition of the 10 communities of the state of New York dictates 11 that the discretionary power inherent in 12 governments must weigh in favor of that 13 commitment; 14 Consistent with that pledged 15 concern, it is the sense of this legislative 16 body to commemorate Tax Freedom Day in the state 17 of New York May 24, 1995; 18 This year Tax Freedom Day for New 19 York State is May 24th, giving New Yorkers the 20 longest wait for tax freedom in the nation; 21 Tax Freedom Day is a symbolic 22 date on which all federal, state and local tax 23 obligations should be satisfied and wage earners 6776 1 begin working for themselves and their families 2 instead of the government; 3 In 1995, National Tax Freedom Day 4 is May 6th; and 5 WHEREAS the National Tax 6 Foundation, a non-profit, non-partisan research 7 and public education group based in Washington, 8 D.C., began the practice many years ago when 9 more and more Americans, especially New Yorkers, 10 saw more of their hard earned dollars going to 11 pay for government; 12 The tax obligations of the 50 13 states are calculated to determine a national 14 average. The Tax Foundation determined the 15 national -- the nation's "effective" tax rate or 16 total taxes as a percentage of total income; 17 For 1995 the Tax Foundation 18 estimates the national tax rate to be 34.4 19 percent. This means that the average American 20 will forfeit 34.4 percent of his or her total 21 income in 1995 for federal, state and local 22 taxes. Using this calculation and the various 23 tax rates of each state, the date of May 6th was 6777 1 identified as National Tax Freedom Day; 2 It means that from the first 3 workday of January, 1995 until May 6th, every 4 cent of an American's earnings goes to pay his 5 or her taxes for 1995. For example, a worker in 6 Massachusetts works 128 days to reach his or her 7 federal, state and local tax obligations while 8 New York State wage earners must work 144 eight 9 hour days in order to pay his or her total tax 10 bill; 11 According to the Tax Foundation, 12 the average person devotes two hours and 46 13 minutes of every eight-hour workday to earning 14 enough to pay taxes; 15 In New York State, Tax Freedom 16 Day occurs on May 24th, 1995 or 144 days from 17 January 1st, 1995; it takes New York wage 18 earners 18 days longer to meet their obligation 19 than the average American. Only the residents 20 of Connecticut share this dubious honor; yet it 21 is Connecticut's high share of federal taxes 22 that increases its burden; 23 The average wage earner in New 6778 1 York State works three hours and nine minutes in 2 an eight-hour day to meet his or her tax 3 obligation. This amounts to one hour, 52 4 minutes of daily work for federal taxes and one 5 hour and 17 minutes for state and local taxes; 6 New York State wage earners work 7 longer than any other state in the nation on a 8 daily basis to pay their state and local taxes; 9 and 10 WHEREAS, fully cognizant of the 11 oppressive implications of Tax Freedom Day, this 12 legislative body is committed to offering relief 13 to the taxpayers of the state of New York; 14 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 15 that this legislative body pause in its 16 deliberations to commemorate Tax Freedom Day in 17 the state of New York, May 24, 1995; and 18 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 19 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 20 transmitted to the Honorable George E. Pataki, 21 Governor of the state of New York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 23 is on the resolution. All those in favor 6779 1 signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 The resolution is adopted. 6 Senator Present, or Senator 7 Mendez. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 9 wish to have unanimous consent to be recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 822 and Calendar 11 Number 976. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And 16 hearing no objection, Senator Mendez will be 17 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 822 18 and 976. 19 The Chair recognizes Senator 20 Marcellino. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 22 President, on behalf of Senator Saland, I wish 23 to call up bill Print Number 2113, recalled from 6780 1 the Assembly, which is now at the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the title. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 425, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2113, an 6 act to amend the Family Court Act and the 7 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 8 authorizing the court to permit a petitioner. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Marcellino. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 12 President, I now move to reconsider the vote by 13 which this bill was passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 15 to reconsider the vote by which the bill passed 16 the house. Secretary will call the roll on 17 reconsideration. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Marcellino. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 6781 1 President, I now offer the following 2 amendments. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Amendments are received and adopted. 5 Senator Nozzolio. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 7 I ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 8 negative on Calendar Number 843. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection and hearing no objection, Senator 11 Nozzolio will be recorded in the negative on 12 Calendar Number 843. 13 Senator Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 any other housekeeping? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 17 we've taken care of everything, Senator 18 Present. Nothing at the desk. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Good. I'd like 20 to announce that there will be a Majority 21 Conference at 4:00 p.m. today in the conference 22 room, and there being no further business, I 23 move that we adjourn until tomorrow at 10:00 6782 1 a.m. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 will be a Majority Conference in the Majority 4 Conference Room Number 332 at 4:00 p.m., and 5 without objection, the Senate stands adjourned 6 until tomorrow, May 25th, at 10:00 a.m. 7 (Whereupon at 2:40 p.m., the 8 Senate adjourned.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16