Thursday, May 25, 1995

6783 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 May 25, 1995 10 10:00 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 6784 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Members please find 4 their places, the staff their places. Ask the 5 members in the chamber to rise with me and say 6 the Pledge of Allegiance. 7 (The assemblage repeated the 8 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 In the absence of clergy, may we 10 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 11 (A moment of silence was 12 observed.) 13 Reading of the Journal. 14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 15 Wednesday, May 24th. The Senate met pursuant to 16 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 17 designation of the Temporary President. The 18 prayer by the Rabbi Cecil Walkenfeld, Spiritual 19 Leader of the Clearview Jewish Center, 20 Whitestone, New York. The Journal of Tuesday, 21 May 23rd, was read and approved. On motion, the 22 Senate adjourned. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 6785 1 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 2 read. 3 Presentation of petitions. 4 Messages from the Assembly. 5 Messages from the Governor. 6 Reports of standing committees. 7 Reports of select committees. 8 Communications and reports from 9 state officers. 10 Motions and resolutions. 11 Senator Farley. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 On behalf of Senator Levy, on 15 page 24, I offer the following amendments to his 16 bill, Calendar Number 728, Senate Print 973-A, 17 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the 18 Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 amendments are received and adopted. The bill 21 will retain its place on the Third Reading 22 Calendar. 23 Senator Bruno, we have a couple 6786 1 of substitutions. Would you like to take 2 those? The Secretary will read. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Take the 4 substitutions, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: On page 30, 8 Senator Volker moves to discharge from the 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6592 and 10 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 11 807. 12 On page 47, Senator Cook moves to 13 discharge from the Committee on Local 14 Government, Assembly Print 3421, and substitute 15 it for the identical Calendar Number 1025. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 substitutions are ordered. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 20 can we ask for an immediate meeting of Rules in 21 Room 332? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At 23 Senator Bruno's direction, there will be an 6787 1 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the 2 Majority Conference Room, Room 332, an immediate 3 meeting of the Rules Committee. 4 Senator Bruno, that brings us to 5 the non-controversial calendar. What's your 6 pleasure? 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 8 can we at this time take up the non 9 controversial calendar? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the non-controversial 12 calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 14 Calendar Number 79, by Senator Levy, Senate 15 Print 384-D, an act to amend the Vehicle and 16 Traffic Law, in relation to requiring school bus 17 and other motor vehicle drivers involved in 18 personal injury accidents involving school buses 19 to submit to a breath test. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the first day of 6788 1 September. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 254, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1411, an act 10 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to 11 utility rates. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside at 13 the request of the sponsor. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 15 aside for the day. 16 SENATOR BRUNO: Calendar Number 17 475, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4140-A, an 18 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 19 establishing a suspension period for students 20 determined to have brought a weapon to school. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 6789 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTION PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 589, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 327, an act 10 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 11 relation to requiring suspension and revocation 12 of a driver's license. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the first day of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results when tabulated. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 1, 6790 1 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 606, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3681-A, an 6 act to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in 7 relation to the definition of a limited profit 8 mutual company. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 10 please, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 13 Leader. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 683, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1044, an act 16 to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation to 17 hearing officers for disciplinary hearings. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect on the first day of 22 January. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6791 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 4 ACTINGT PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 700, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1261-B, 8 an act - 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 845, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1146, 14 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 15 relation to license plates of rental vehicles. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 20 ACTION PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 6792 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 884, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3091, an 5 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 6 cooperation between police agencies and the 7 United States Immigration and Naturalization 8 Service. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay the bill 14 aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 17 Leader. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 914, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 1860, an act 20 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the 21 inspection of tax records. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 6793 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1014, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 68, an 11 act to - 12 SENATOR PATTERSON: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1015, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 259, an act 17 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 18 to certain state lands subject to taxation in 19 Sullivan County. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6794 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1016, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 293, an act 9 to amend the County Law, in relation to review 10 and approval of names for rights-of-way. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 January. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1018, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 670, an 6795 1 act to amend the Penal Law - 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1019, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1177, an 7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 8 Education Law, in relation to the appointment of 9 security officers with peace officer status. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1020, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1378, an 22 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 23 restitution and reparation. 6796 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect on the first day of 5 November. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1021, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1396-A, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 15 authorizing counties to impose and collect a 16 drug penalty and mandatory surcharge. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect on the first day of 21 November. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6797 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1022, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1967, 7 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 8 relation to the collection of court imposed 9 financial obligations. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1023, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 2352, an 22 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 23 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled 6798 1 substances. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1024, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print - 15 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1025, by Member of the Assembly Pordum, 20 substituted earlier today, Assembly Print 3421, 21 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 22 relation to authorizing the New York Planning 23 Federation to make purchases. 6799 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1026, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3065 - 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside for 14 the day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside for the day at the request of the 17 sponsor. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Also, Calendar 19 Number 1018, please, for the day. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay aside 21 Calendar Number 1018 at the request of the 22 Majority Leader, for the day. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6800 1 1027, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3331, an 2 act in relation to authorizing the town of Lee, 3 county of Oneida, to release certain parklands. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 5 aside for the day. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1028, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3737, an 8 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 9 screening facilities in the town of Southampton 10 in the county of Suffolk. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 12 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1029, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3867-A, 6801 1 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 2 relation to allowing for the use of fire 3 training centers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1030, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 3960, an act 16 in relation to authorizing the dissolution of 17 the Fallsburg Park District. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 19 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6802 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1031, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4169, an 8 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 9 residency of the court clerk of the town of 10 Hamlin, Monroe County. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1032, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 4217, an 23 act authorizing the town of Dannemora, Clinton 6803 1 County, to discontinue use as parklands certain 2 lands. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 4 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Bruno, that completes the 15 non-controversial calendar. What's your 16 pleasure, sir? 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 18 can we at this time take up the controversial 19 calendar? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the controversial calendar 22 beginning with Calendar Number 606. 23 THE SECRETARY: On page 18, 6804 1 Calendar Number 606, by Senator Leibell, Senate 2 Print 3681-A, an act to amend the Private 3 Housing Finance Law, in relation to the 4 definition of a limited profit mutual company. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Hoblock, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President, 8 I would like to request that Calendar Number 9 1023, my bill, Senate Bill 2352, be laid aside 10 for the day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1023, 12 Senator Hoblock, previously passed the house. 13 Do you want to reconsider the vote by which the 14 bill passed? 15 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I'm sorry. Oh, 16 I'm sorry, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You want 18 Calendar Number 1024 laid aside for the day? 19 (Senator Hoblock nods head.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll do 21 that at your request, Senator Hoblock. 22 The Secretary has called the 23 title to Calendar Number 606, by Senator 6805 1 Leibell. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 3 please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson has requested an explanation, Senator 6 Leibell, of Calendar Number 606. 7 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Mr. 8 President. What this does is a -- is a - 9 current law is under subdivision 2(b) of Section 10 12 of the Private Housing Finance Law. That 11 provides for a mutual -- where there's a mutual 12 company, such a mutual as a Mitchell-Lama, 13 there's a requirement when there's going to be a 14 conversion that at least 80 percent of them, of 15 the tenants, agree to that conversion. The 16 provisions here will change that cap from 80 17 percent to 50 percent of the residents who would 18 like to own shares in the mutual company. 19 The purpose of this bill is to 20 encourage the conversion of the existing 21 Mitchell-Lama rental developments to cooperative 22 ownership. We have found that in implementing 23 that public policy, the 80 percent cap is just 6806 1 too high, that the 50 percent cap is more 2 reasonable. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 4 recognizes Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 I have an amendment that has been served. I 7 would waive its reading if you would inform me 8 as to whether or not it has been received. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, there is -- your amendment is at the 11 desk. We'll waive the reading of that and you 12 are now afforded the opportunity to explain it. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, Mr. 14 President, first I want to thank Senator Leibell 15 for putting this bill over a couple of times to 16 accommodate those of us in the Minority. We 17 wanted to bring this amendment to ensure that 18 those individuals who do not purchase are still 19 protected from eviction or other circumstances. 20 So, in other words, we're just 21 asking for a non-eviction of those individuals 22 who do not purchase and are part of the new 23 threshold, which is 50 percent as opposed to 80 6807 1 percent, where Section 12.2(b) is going to be, 2 in a sense, altered by Senator Leibell, and we 3 have no objection to that. We just want to make 4 sure that those remaining tenants are allowed to 5 stay, and the Commissioner of the Department of 6 Housing and Community Renewal will promulgate 7 these resolutions -- I mean, these regulations, 8 but we're not totally sure whether or not it 9 really covers those individuals, and that's why 10 we submit the amendment. 11 I know I've lost 16 in a row, Mr. 12 President, but it's a new day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leibell. 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: If I may 16 just - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Leibell on the amendment. 19 SENATOR LEIBELL: If I might just 20 respond briefly to Senator Paterson, and -- and 21 I -- I find I've had more success myself in - 22 in this chamber than I have in the other house, 23 but I would note, Senator Paterson, that we 6808 1 share your concern in terms of those people who 2 are renters and would choose not to participate 3 in the ownership. 4 We feel, however -- and this 5 question was brought to us by your staff the 6 other day -- that this amendment is unnecessary 7 because the renters who are protected now with 8 the 80 percent cap will have the same protection 9 that will be under the new cap of 50 percent. 10 In other words, there will be no change in 11 protection because we're lowering the cap. The 12 renters who choose not to participate would be 13 just as protected as they would with the 80 14 percent cap, which is the current law, and for 15 that reason I would suggest that there's no need 16 for this amendment. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 question is on the amendment. All those in 19 favor of the amendment signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye".) 21 All those opposed, signify by 22 saying no. 23 (Response of "No".) 6809 1 Another tough one to determine, 2 but I think the noes have it. A very, very 3 close vote. The amendment is defeated. 4 Sorry, Senator Paterson. You'll 5 have to continue. You got what, 21 left now? 6 Continuing on the bill. The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 Senator Mendez on the bill. 9 SENATOR MENDEZ: If Senator 10 Leibell will yield for a question. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Leibell, do you yield to Senator Mendez? The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: It is my 15 understanding that today we have statutes that I 16 -- whenever there is a rental building that 17 wants to go into a co-op or a condominium, that 18 we have now non-eviction plans. If that's the 19 case, will that also -- also apply to 20 Mitchell-Lamas? 21 SENATOR LEIBELL: I'm not exactly 22 sure which plans you're referring to, but under 23 the current law with Mitchell-Lama and under the 6810 1 bill we have in front of us here, those tenants 2 who would not participate would be protected. 3 They would receive the exact same protections 4 under this change in the cap, from 80 percent to 5 50 percent, as they had received previously. 6 SENATOR MENDEZ: I was wondering 7 about the protection that some tenants had 8 whenever a private building is going to be made 9 -- whenever a private building is going to be 10 converted into a condo or a co-op, there is 11 protection in the law for non-eviction. Would 12 that apply -- because that law is there. Would 13 it apply in the conversion process of the 14 Mitchell-Lama? 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: That's my 16 understanding. 17 SENATOR MENDEZ: Oh, I see. 18 Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6811 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results when tabulated. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 5, 6 Senators Abate, Kruger, Mendez, Paterson and 7 Smith recorded in the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 The Secretary will continue to 11 call the controversial calendar. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 700, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1261-B, 14 an act to amend the Insurance Law and the 15 General Obligations Law, in relation to limiting 16 liability for property owners. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Stafford, an explanation has been asked for of 20 Calendar Number 700, by Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I would add -- or not add. I 6812 1 would say first that this is not really plowing 2 new turf. We now have this available for many 3 purposes. And what do we have available? 4 For owners of land who voluntar 5 ily agree to permit public recreational use of 6 their land and water, there is limited liabil 7 ity. This simply says for any recreational 8 use. 9 Now, for those of you who get 10 into the country, and I know all of you do, some 11 live there, and those who live there, many let 12 people come onto their land for recreational 13 use. Your speaker is one of them. We think it 14 makes sense to give them this limited 15 liability. 16 Mind you, people are coming onto 17 private land. They can post it but no one goes 18 on, and I will say that posting is becoming more 19 prevalent and when this happens, the average 20 person -- excuse me -- the public is not able to 21 have the advantage of this land for hunting, for 22 many - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6813 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 I rise hopeful that Senator Stafford will yield 4 for a question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Stafford, do you yield for a question from 7 Senator Paterson? The Senator yields. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I was 9 thinking about a scenario where there might be a 10 bridge that the landowner constructed over a 11 pond, and over a period of time the bridge falls 12 into disrepair and then some individual who is 13 visiting on property goes across the bridge, the 14 bridge breaks and the person is injured. 15 You don't think that there's 16 limited liability there that, in a sense, could 17 inure to the detriment of the individual who's 18 on the property, even though the property is 19 owned by the individual that constructed the 20 bridge? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Anything that 22 would be covered under common law of negligence 23 -- if -- that, of course, goes to the heart of 6814 1 the question. Part of the issue, Senator 2 Paterson, always is if it is something that the 3 landlord or the owner should know about and it 4 is -- could cause harm, it is covered under the 5 common law of negligence. 6 ACTION PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 if Senator Stafford would yield, and I would 10 move into a different area. 11 ACTION PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator continues to yield. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm moving to 14 a different area on the private property. In a 15 situation where there is a lessee, who is 16 covered between the lessee and the owner should 17 an action be taken by some visitor? What is the 18 relationship between the lessee and the owner in 19 terms of the protection that this legislation 20 provides? 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: This, of 22 course, is something that is considered every 23 day because, as many of you may know or not know 6815 1 -- and it's always good in these debates that 2 we keep people informed -- these vast acres of 3 land that are owned by mostly corporations, but 4 some individuals, they have what they call 5 hunting and fishing clubs, and they pay the 6 taxes. That's what that -- but when a club has 7 it, it is then posted, so then the public cannot 8 go in and have the advantage that people have 9 here. 10 I would say this, that people who 11 go into these lands, in the wilderness or not in 12 the wilderness, you have to make sure yourself 13 that the situation is safe. Now, I would 14 suggest -- and I'm not by any means trying to be 15 anything other than very open -- anyone who goes 16 across a logging bridge in the woods and they 17 don't know whether it's safe or not, they better 18 not go across it. I never do. They'll go down 19 toward the river as the people did who went west 20 80 -- more than that -- many years ago. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: But, Senator, 6816 1 it's -- things are not always as they seem. 2 That's how I would answer that. In other words, 3 I assume that people who understand the woods 4 would attempt to do that, but I don't know that 5 it's always successful. 6 I just have one last question. 7 The answers have been quite informative, and the 8 question relates to the duty -- comparing the 9 duties of the individual to post the sign as 10 opposed to the duty of the individual that 11 openly invites someone onto the property. It 12 seems to me that a person who openly invites 13 someone onto the property has a lesser duty than 14 the individual who posts the sign, is that 15 correct? 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, this is 17 -- this is true. Again, this gets back - 18 again, your questions are very well taken and I 19 understand exactly what you mean, but I have to 20 emphasize, what we're doing here is we're trying 21 to keep more land open. 22 Now, I would suggest that there 23 are organizations supporting this, the memo. I 6817 1 will not go into it but, you know, when it comes 2 to knowing -- hiking in the wilderness, going up 3 on one of the lakes, ponds, unless people are 4 experienced and unless they have been there and 5 unless they understand exactly what they're 6 doing, there's actually nothing more dangerous, 7 and I think everyone has to understand -- you 8 asked about the lessee and the lessor. It 9 depends on the lease, but I will tell you from 10 one who has leased over 4,000 acres for the past 11 30 years -- I can't believe it's 30 years -- the 12 landowner is the one who's responsible, no 13 matter how you look at it. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 on the bill. 18 ACTION PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson, on the bill. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's good 21 advice that Senator Stafford has -- has allowed 22 us to hear, and I'm glad to see that he's still 23 open to negotiation from the questions that I 6818 1 asked. 2 It's clear that some of us feel 3 that the bill needs to be reworked a little bit, 4 but it is in negotiation and we're comfortable 5 that Senator Stafford will be -- will be willing 6 to review some of those procedures. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, will Senator Stafford yield to a 11 question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 14 The Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, you 16 used the example about the bridge on the private 17 property and you pointed out that no one should 18 use the bridge; they should ford the stream. My 19 question is -- and I just read this bill at 20 length for the first time and I'm troubled by 21 part of it, but if you have a bridge on your 22 property and the bridge is there as an 23 invitation for someone to walk across it, does 6819 1 the landowner have no liability to inform the 2 potential invited guest that the planks in the 3 middle of the bridge are 250 years old and are 4 maybe well rotted and may fall apart if they're 5 subject to human weight? 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would 7 suggest that someone on Braniff Parks -- the 8 owners who are supporting this from Rochester, 9 they're -- well, you know, it doesn't make any 10 -- you know, that's the same area. Again, I 11 have to emphasize, I'm not saying anyone even is 12 inviting people to come. Some people are still 13 generous enough, frankly, to let people come on 14 their land. I shared with you that if anyone 15 crosses a bridge, no matter how many times they 16 have been in the woods, and they don't know 17 exactly whether it's safe, hasn't been proven to 18 them, they better not cross it. They're just - 19 they're just there because they'd like to go on; 20 they're not necessarily invited. 21 Now, if we want to have more 22 posting of land, I suppose we can -- we can do 23 that. I suggest that that's a step in the wrong 6820 1 direction but, you know, in this country -- in 2 this country, you know, people have the right to 3 own land and they have a right to say that other 4 people will not come on their property, and when 5 these people are allowing -- not inviting, but 6 allowing; you don't see any invitations -- but 7 allowing people to go on the property, then I 8 think this comes right into these -- the list of 9 exceptions we have, and do you know the -- do 10 you know what -- what they are when you go on 11 property and you -- the landlord has limited 12 liability? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm generally 14 familiar with them under the common law and 15 under this section of the law. If you'd like to 16 provide me with further edification, I would 17 appreciate it. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Hunting, 19 fishing, organized gleaning, as defined in 20 Section 72 -- 71(y) of the Agriculture and 21 Markets Law, canoeing, boating, tracking, 22 hiking, cross-country skiing, tobogganing, 23 sledding -- now here's one, speleological 6821 1 activities, horseback riding, bicycle riding - 2 it says "hang gliding". They missed there; it 3 should be h-a-n-d, hand gliding -- motorized 4 vehicle operation for recreational purposes, 5 snowmobile operation, cutting or gathering of 6 wood for non-commercial purposes, training of 7 dogs, and we're just saying "or for other 8 recreational uses". 9 So, as I said earlier, we're not 10 really plowing any new turf here. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's the 12 section of the law -- again through you, Mr. 13 President, if Senator Stafford will continue to 14 yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Stafford, do you continue to yield? The Senator 17 continues to yield. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's the 19 section of the law that says if they come on 20 your land without permission, he has no 21 liability for the following -- for all those 22 activities, but Section (b), which says "an 23 owner who gives permission to another does not 6822 1 thereby extend any assurance that the premises 2 are safe," and it used to say -- or at least 3 under the current law it says "constitute the 4 person to whom is granted an -- is granted an 5 invitee to whom a duty of care is owed." 6 We -- your bill would change that 7 to say, in essence, that if you are given 8 permission to come on the land, there is no 9 liability of the landowner to the invited guest 10 on the property, none. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, Mr. 12 President, I think we've -- we've pointed this 13 out. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Stafford. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: For the people 17 to have the advantage of open space, we are 18 saying that there will be limited liability 19 other than common law of negligence. I think it 20 makes a great deal of sense. I think that 21 anyone who is questioning this doesn't really 22 understand the situation and, as I say, people 23 aren't being invited; they're being allowed. 6823 1 There are no invitations. If people are -- had 2 the opportunity to use your open space, then 3 they realize or they have to understand that the 4 owner has limited liability. 5 Now, I could go -- the hiking 6 clubs or clubs that are involved in this area 7 are supporting this. They understand this. 8 They know what it's like to have land posted. 9 Once it's posted, you don't go on it anymore. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President, on the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Dollinger, on the bill. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If this bill 15 provided some form of limited liability for 16 landowners, I could see the wisdom of Senator 17 Stafford's counsel. I read it, however, to 18 provide no liability, none, on the part of 19 landowners who allow people, with their express 20 permission, to use their land. That means if 21 there's a guy wire across the trail, they have 22 no liability. That means if the bridge is 150 23 years old and it looks perfectly okay -- and 6824 1 Senator Stafford said, "Well, you should find 2 out whether the bridge is usable or not", how do 3 you find out? Someone goes out and starts to 4 tiptoe across the bridge to see whether it's 5 strong enough to hold your weight, no 6 requirement that the landowner post any of these 7 potential deficiencies. 8 What would happen if there were 9 mil... it was an old military firing range and 10 there were land mines or there were mines, there 11 were exploded -- unexploded shells on the 12 property, it had been a drop zone in a war? It 13 was up in Senator Wright's part of the world 14 where they practice at Fort Drum, and we're 15 going to let people walk around with no 16 obligation on the part of the landowner to tell 17 them or advise them of any deficiencies on the 18 land, the risk in the land. They have no 19 liability at all to post any information for 20 these invited guests. 21 While I think that perhaps some 22 additional protection, some additional limited 23 liability for landowners might be appropriate, 6825 1 in this circumstance it goes too far because it 2 leaves landowners carte blanche and creates no 3 liability -- not limited liability, no liability 4 on the part of the landowner. 5 For that reason, I think we'd be 6 doing an injustice to those invited guests if we 7 made this bill into law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 9 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator 11 Stafford yield for a question, please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Hoffmann? The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 16 Stafford, upon reading the bill, just as Senator 17 Dollinger was referring to the bill as 18 eliminating total liability -- I don't want to 19 misquote you, Senator Dollinger -- but I believe 20 in the original bill, the unamended print, if 21 you could clarify this for me, Senator Stafford, 22 that on line 35 there is a reference to -- well, 23 I'll read directly from the bill. "This shall 6826 1 not be interpreted or construed as a limit on 2 liability for acts of gross negligence in 3 addition to those other acts referred to in 4 subdivision 2 and 3 of this section." 5 What would -- help me clarify 6 this, then. In the case that a landowner had a 7 bridge -- since we're talking bridges here - 8 was well aware of the fact that the bridge was 9 not in good condition and had not made any main 10 tenance on it over some period of time and that 11 bridge was readily accessible by the public, 12 either by invitation or without invitation, 13 would that constitute gross negligence? 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: I -- well, 15 yes, but you have pointed it out. I said 16 earlier -- and I said negligence, really - 17 really, gross negligence, if it's determined 18 it's there, obviously you're not limited and 19 you're certainly liable. 20 I would say this: Exactly what 21 gross negligence is, I didn't want to be -- make 22 any errors and say that I knew exactly what 23 would be determined as gross negligence. If 6827 1 someone had a bridge on their property that they 2 had used only to -- used for logging and it was 3 done, you know, 40, 50 years ago, I suggest that 4 people who go on that property should make sure 5 that that's -- make sure that that's safe. 6 Now, it could be argued that 7 that's gross negligence. That would have to be 8 determined by a court, but you're exactly 9 right. Common law of negligence is still there 10 as far as liability is concerned for gross 11 negligence. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 13 Senator Stafford. 14 Mr. President, if Senator 15 Stafford would continue to yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Stafford, would you continue to yield? Senator 18 Stafford - 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I -- I'm 20 very - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Hoffmann, excuse me just a minute. 23 Senator Stafford, I'm sure that 6828 1 the stenographer is having as hard a time as I 2 am hearing you. Could you just kind of slide 3 back so you can speak into that microphone? 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 Senator Stafford, I -- I appre 8 ciate your clarification on the issue of gross 9 negligence and I think that most property owners 10 would willingly accept their responsibility to 11 maintain their property for their own use and, 12 obviously, to prevent the possibility of any 13 lawsuits, they would not want to be guilty of 14 gross negligence. If we can make an assumption 15 that landowners in this state -- and I think I 16 would like to refer specifically to farmers - 17 are by and large not inclined toward gross 18 negligence, but there are unique circumstances, 19 and your bill has done an excellent job of 20 outlining those circumstances, under which 21 people do enter someone else's property with or 22 without invitation. 23 Now, I'd like to ask you to -- to 6829 1 clarify for me if the following situation would 2 be covered under your bill. Bear with me one 3 second. 4 As you know, it's common practice 5 in hunting after -- after a hit, to track an 6 animal. Theoretically, someone could be hunting 7 on state-owned land during bow season, hit a 8 deer and have to track it a mile through the 9 woods, during the course of tracking enter 10 private property, possibly unknowingly, because 11 with thick woods it's not always possible to see 12 the posted signs and bearing in mind that the 13 person is more inclined to be watching the 14 ground for signs rather than trees -- for posted 15 signs, and well aware of impending dusk there 16 would be some -- some matter of urgency to move 17 quickly onto other land. 18 Under such a circumstance, it's 19 possible that a hunter might enter private 20 property unknowingly. That private property 21 could have been previously fenced and have over 22 grown barbed wire fence. It is a very frequent 23 type of accident and usually a relativly minor 6830 1 one for a person to stumble over or be tripped 2 or hung up somehow on old wire in the woods. 3 Would such an in... such an occurrence be 4 considered gross negligence by the landowner or 5 would the landowner be absolved of responsi 6 bility to compensate a hunter tracking an animal 7 on private property under these circumstances? 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, Mr. 9 President, I would ask Senator Hoffmann whether 10 the land is posted they go on. 11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: The land could 12 theoretically be posted, but knowing how posted 13 signs come down, or in large amounts of property 14 the legal definition of posted may not have been 15 met. The intent may have been there at one 16 time, but I think for discussion's sake, I would 17 like to know the answer for both posted land and 18 non-posted land. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, I would 20 say to you, as I'm sure Senator Sears would 21 agree, wounding that deer and going onto private 22 land is one of the old, old stories that 23 everyone always does when they want to do a 6831 1 little hunting on some private property. I'd 2 say it's about 50-50, but if every deer had been 3 wounded that people have wounded so they could 4 go on private property, we wouldn't have many 5 deer left. 6 Now, if the property is posted, 7 the case law is such that you don't have to have 8 every single postmark there. It's in the 9 Conservation Law and it's what every -- how many 10 feet does it have to be? Somebody must know. 11 Anyway, there's a -- there's a law there where 12 you have to have the sign and you have to have 13 who owns it and the address of the owner. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's 15 correct. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: And it's going 17 to be, from now on, you also have to have the 18 telephone number. 19 The interesting point is usually 20 people have some club that you have no idea who 21 the club is, or they post it in such a way that 22 it's going to take you a long time to find out 23 who it is, I guarantee you. I'm just trying to 6832 1 be very open on this. 2 Getting near barbed wire, I would 3 say people better be very careful because a high 4 percentage of hunting acc... hunting accidents 5 are crossing fences. Over 50 percent are - 6 some are smiling at that, but I think that we're 7 discussing all of this, I think it's a good 8 thing to be mentioning. 9 Now, I would suggest in case law, 10 if that property is posted and it's known as 11 posted land, whether for agriculture or logging 12 -- and, of course, logging you and I know is 13 agriculture and we got to start getting logging 14 into reasonable -- into a reasonable area as far 15 as paying workmen's compensation and that type 16 -- it is not something just out there and - 17 and we have it at the present time, so it's 18 almost impossible for these people; but if it's 19 posted, I would suggest that the landowner 20 probably will be held not responsible because of 21 the land being posted. 22 Now, you see those of us who have 23 been involved in these issues -- you know, 6833 1 what's a "reasonable man"? If I ask every 2 person -- pardon me? 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Reasonable 4 person, a reasonable man or woman, Mr. 5 President. 6 SENATOR STAFFORD: A reasonable 7 person. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: They taught it 10 incorrectly when I was in law school and your 11 point is very well taken, and I have been 12 corrected by members of my family on these 13 issues. 14 Now, what's a "reasonable 15 person"? Well, here we go again, barbed wire. 16 Are people responsible for going out and 17 clearing all the fences around their land? I'll 18 tell you one of the most dangerous -- it's worse 19 than barbed wire hunting, there are old stone 20 fences, because when you step on them, you know 21 there's moss around them and they -- I'm not 22 saying they've gotten smaller but they aren't 23 together anymore. These people could make these 6834 1 things in an arch... they were good architects; 2 you know, they went a certain way and you could 3 walk on them. I think there are some poems 4 about that, but if you cross a stone fence, that 5 can be dangerous. 6 Would the person be responsible 7 for clearing all these stone fences? I don't 8 think -- I don't think they -- I don't think 9 they would, and I -- it's the issue of gross 10 negligence. I could see -- I could see cases 11 that you could take and even if -- even if a 12 property was -- even if the property was posted 13 -- see, I don't even like to use the word, I 14 mean, because it just cuts off all these 15 opportunities for people. I can see, even if 16 property was posted, if something was grossly 17 negligent -- if someone had gone and dug 18 something, say they were looking for certain - 19 certain things on their land and they dug a big 20 hole and it wasn't marked -- I mean, this is all 21 reasonable. This is all reasonable. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6835 1 Hoffmann. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I -- I -- I 3 appreciate Senator Stafford's response, and I 4 believe I understand the distinction between the 5 posted and the non-posted liability, and I would 6 compliment Senator Stafford and ask one 7 additional question, if Senator Stafford would 8 continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 Senator Stafford, will you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: By all means. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: He 13 will. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 15 Stafford, following this -- this train of 16 thought, and I'm sure for many of our colleagues 17 who are not familiar with the joys of hunting 18 and the experience that one might have in 19 tracking a deer, or a bear in your district, not 20 too many in mine, that there are unique 21 circumstances that one would be aware of, and I 22 I want to make sure that we're clear on the 23 intent of the bill, the current status of law 6836 1 and what ultimate negligence would be under 2 certain circumstances. 3 The intent of the bill, as I 4 understand it, is to encourage more public 5 participation with less risk to property owners, 6 is that correct? 7 SENATOR STAFFORD: Correct. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Correct, Mr. 11 President. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 13 The -- the risks to property 14 owners, of course, are many, and in this very 15 litigious society we have, all property owners, 16 whether they have many thousand acres or a few 17 hundred or a few acres that could, in fact, be 18 used by other people with -- with or without 19 invitation compels them to take some pains and 20 -- and recognize this, but the process of 21 maintaining one's land and having it adequately 22 posted is very burdensome, I'm sure you'll 23 agree. 6837 1 If a property owner had at one 2 time posted land and decided that this law would 3 provide -- this bill, assuming it's passed into 4 law -- would provide some measure of protection, 5 then we would, in fact, have served a rather 6 significant public purpose here in increasing 7 public access. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: Do 9 you yield to that question, Senator? 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, and the 11 Senator is exactly right. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 13 On the bill, Mr. President. 14 Thank you, Senator Stafford - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Hoffmann on the bill. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- for 18 clarifying these matters. There are many 19 property owners who, out of a sense of fear that 20 they are at risk for lawsuits, have taken 21 measures to prevent access from their land by 22 posting the land, by trying to maintain those 23 posted signs. Posted signs are darned 6838 1 expensive. They have to be weatherproof because 2 there isn't a single type of ink that will last 3 more than a season, and after you write your 4 name and your address on a couple hundred posted 5 signs, go out and spend a few days -- and do I 6 mean a few days in many instances -- affixing 7 them onto trees on wooden backers so they will 8 stay up there, it's very frustrating to come 9 back a few months later and discover that half 10 of them are gone and almost all of them are 11 obliterated because the ink has washed away. 12 This means that a landowner is, 13 in fact, in violation of the law relative to 14 posted signs and, more importantly, is subject 15 to negligence standards under the existing 16 statute. 17 So it becomes a burden. I want 18 to emphasize that. It becomes another burden on 19 people engaged in agriculture in this state to 20 maintain posted land. So there is a tremendous 21 benefit to the public for greater access to the 22 land as well as a benefit in terms of peace of 23 mind to people who are engaged in agriculture. 6839 1 Now, when you think of a farm, 2 it's very likely that some people in this 3 chamber think in terms of neatly plowed fields 4 and rows of corn and pastures and fields of hay, 5 but a farm can include much more. In fact, 6 under DEC definition, much of the wetlands that 7 are in the possession of agriculturalists or 8 waste land as it's often classified, is very, 9 very difficult to traverse. To top it off, 10 there are portions of this state -- Senator 11 Stafford's district is well-known, but mine as 12 well -- which include ravines, gullies, 13 mountainous areas. There are people in my 14 district who have to literally rappel down 15 ravines to traverse one side to another of a 16 gorge to legally affix the posted signs at the 17 distances required by the law. 18 So if we can provide some relief 19 for such individuals to avoid going through this 20 onerous burden and at the same time allow 21 hunters the satisfaction of knowing that they 22 can, in fact, track an animal following a hit so 23 they can successfully conclude the hunt, not 6840 1 allow that animal to suffer and make sure they 2 have completed their task without risk of any 3 violation of law for covering private property, 4 we will have accomplished something very 5 worthwhile. 6 This is all necessary, sadly, 7 because of the lawsuits, in this very litigious 8 society. I'm a little disappointed to see that 9 there is some opposition from the Trial Lawyers 10 Association here, but I am confident that the 11 Trial Lawyers would be as ingenuous following 12 the passage of this bill as they are today in 13 determining gross negligence when, in fact, 14 gross negligence exists. This is simply a 15 matter of relieving property owners of yet 16 another onerous burden and creating greater 17 access for the common good. 18 So I would support the bill. I 19 will urge all of my colleagues to do the same. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 21 Senator Marchi. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 23 my understanding of this legislation is that 6841 1 there would be no immediate effect and there 2 would be a requirement when the Superintendent 3 of Insurance -- to make recommendations within a 4 period of 18 months. 5 The fact that it has as its 6 objective the limitation of liability on people 7 utilizing the land not for a consideration, 8 there's a certain assumption of risk in anything 9 you do in life or -- unless -- I wouldn't even 10 characterize gross negligence, but wanton 11 negligence, where you put traps in or you create 12 deliberate hazards, and even a trespasser is, of 13 course -- if they walk into a pit and there's 14 spikes at the bottom of the pit, you have a 15 pretty bad situation. 16 The opposition of the New York 17 Trial Lawyers Association, I think, is a reflex 18 action of trial lawyers, negligence lawyers on 19 anything that might impede run-away judgments on 20 allegations of negligence. It would seem to me 21 that it's -- it's good public policy given a 22 study by the Superintendent of Insurance, which 23 presumably would include certain safeguards in 6842 1 which we are free to accept or reject, to 2 introduce a climate that will allow for greater 3 utilization and encourage the disposition of the 4 landowner to allow this use, as is now the case 5 as Senator Stafford has informed us, and I don't 6 see how -- I don't really see that going much 7 further than that, other than really to invite 8 the owners of public property to post trespass 9 signs and to bring on a wholly negative attitude 10 on the use of land that's open for recreational 11 use, considerations on both sides, but I think 12 that the pendulum definitely swings towards 13 Senator Stafford's bill which provides, I think, 14 for the -- the protections that -- a modicum of 15 protections and the limitation of liability at 16 the end of a period of review which we are free 17 to accept or reject and at the same time not 18 lead to situations where increased use may take 19 place as the population increases and there's a 20 greater propensity for using open space. 21 I think this bill favors - 22 favors the kind of activity which is now taking 23 place and which is laudable, so I think it's a 6843 1 reasonably safeguarded piece of legislation, and 2 I don't think we should go to the barricades 3 just when trial lawyers object because it may 4 interfere with some run-away judgment. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Saland. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 Mr. President, I rise in support 10 of Senator Stafford's bill. I know Senator 11 Stafford's interest in Section 9103 certainly is 12 long-standing. He has introduced legislation 13 over the years attempting to expand the 14 categories covered by that particular section, 15 and I commend him for his continuing efforts and 16 I don't view this bill somehow or other as being 17 a ticking time bomb. I think, as the Senator 18 has pointed out, it's certainly something that 19 would be welcomed by the sportsman's community, 20 by the agriculture community; but let me also 21 suggest to you that recreational users, people 22 who want to access things such as the Hudson 23 Valley -- Hudson River Valley Greenway, would be 6844 1 greatly pleased to have this legislation on the 2 books. It's -- it's an invitation to open land, 3 to permit others to have access to the land, and 4 while there are issues that may be raised by way 5 of litigation, there are issues for which this 6 bill certainly does not shut the door. It makes 7 it clear that issues of gross negligence are 8 still subject to a proceeding if, in fact, 9 someone believes that that particular type of 10 behavior has occurred. 11 So I don't view this as being 12 onerous; I view this as being welcomed. I view 13 this as opening land, giving people access to 14 land. I view it as people being encouraged, 15 owners of property, to let others come upon 16 their property for a multitude of recreational 17 purposes, and I think as time progresses and as 18 fewer and fewer people have access to the kinds 19 of beautiful parcels that -- and the types of 20 parcels that really give us the opportunity to 21 expand our quality of life, to enjoy the kinds 22 of things in our day to day life we're generally 23 denied, this bill sends the right message. 6845 1 I wish Senator Stafford well in 2 his negotiations with the other house and we'll 3 certainly do everything I can to bring his 4 message back to my district as well. 5 Thank you, Senator Stafford. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Read the last section. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 9 very quickly. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 11 Senator Stafford. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would just 13 point out that -- I should have pointed out the 14 study which will be conducted by the Superin 15 tendent of Insurance, and I would point out that 16 that will be conducted and we would hope they 17 will review and assess ways for -- for instance, 18 group policies to limit the cost of such 19 property and liability coverage on these lands, 20 but I would point out this is concurrent. This 21 will take place along with the legislation. 22 Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6846 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, would Senator Stafford yield to just 4 one more question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Stafford, would you yield? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It's a 8 relatively easy one. My question through you, 9 Mr. President, is if you had a piece of land 10 owned by the state and you have a piece of land 11 owned by the state relatively adjacent but you 12 have a section, a strip in between, that's owned 13 by a private property owner, and the -- this 14 bill passes and there's a bridge that runs from 15 the state land to the other part of the state 16 land and goes over the property held by the 17 private property owner, isn't it a fact that, if 18 you pass this bill, if a person fell on the 19 state land because the bridge was defective, 20 they would have a claim against the state, but 21 if they fell on the land that is owned by the 22 private property owner under this bill, they 23 would proceed at their own risk and, therefore, 6847 1 they would have no claim? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Stafford. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 5 I for one -- and I hope everyone here in the 6 room and all within the sound of my voice, I 7 hope that they understand that state land is 8 different than private land. Now, if we don't, 9 I think we're in real trouble. 10 Now, I have stated continuously 11 here that this is private land and people are 12 allowing people to go on it, and it's much 13 different than the state land that I have in my 14 district. Some of the towns have 75 to 80 15 percent state land in their towns. That is much 16 different than private land. It can be used and 17 we all own it. We're talking about land here 18 that is owned by an individual or corporation or 19 it could -- it could be land that they're using 20 so that they can provide -- provide produce for 21 supermarkets. It could be used for anything in 22 the private sector, and private land is 23 different than state land, and I would suggest 6848 1 that we have to -- have to understand that. 2 I would ask the Senator this, Mr. 3 President, if he would yield. Was he saying 4 that this was just a strip of land between two 5 -- between two private -- between two state 6 owned - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Dollinger, would you care to restate the 9 question? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will 11 restate it. My point was you have a piece of 12 state land, you have another piece of state 13 land, you got a strip in between which is owned 14 by a property owner -- and I appreciate the 15 difference between those ownerships but as the 16 individual walks from the state land -- from one 17 part of the state land to the other part of the 18 state land, there's nothing necessarily telling 19 him that he's now on private land, so he assumes 20 that the protection that the state gives him on 21 its own property extends through private land 22 until he gets to the other piece of state land. 23 He's not put on notice, "Oh, wait a second. I'm 6849 1 now on private land and I proceed entirely at my 2 own risk, and have no presumed protection for 3 the condition of the land as I would have on the 4 state property." 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: Is 6 there -- Senator Dollinger, is there a question 7 there? 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe - 9 Mr. President, I believe I was simply asked to 10 clarify my question, so the other question 11 stands. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I will clarify 13 the question by stating, there are differences. 14 I would ask -- I will point this out and then I 15 will attempt to answer the question. 16 If one has damages -- is damaged 17 on state land, they can have a trial and there's 18 only a judge. If you're damaged on private 19 land, you can have a trial -- exactly -- and you 20 can have a judge and jury. We can point out 21 differences. 22 There are going to be situations 23 where, obviously, as I stated -- I stated this 6850 1 earlier, that if this was a piece of land that 2 was there and people were going across it all 3 the time, even though it was private land, I 4 could see that you could probably get to the 5 point of gross negligence if certain things 6 weren't corrected. All I'm saying is we're 7 making it possible to open this land, and I'm 8 sure that all of us -- all of us can think of 9 reasons that possibly it isn't really the way it 10 should be. It could be this way; it could be 11 that way. 12 Again, if we want to have this 13 land just posted, that's one thing and that's 14 been pointed out here, but I suggest that also 15 on this strip of land that was being suggested, 16 you know, anybody -- anybody who has spent time 17 in the woods and knows an area at all, you know 18 where the state land is, you know where the 19 private land is, and if someone is out in the 20 woods without someone who understands that, they 21 shouldn't be there. They shouldn't be there, 22 but there are thousands and thousands of people 23 that like to hike, fish, hunt, camp and I would 6851 1 say that it's -- certainly makes sense for us to 2 make this available, and I would again say 3 anything that can determine -- be determined 4 that it's gross negligence, it's covered under 5 the negligence common law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just briefly 9 on the bill. 10 I think Senator Hoffmann brings 11 up many good points. I think Senator Stafford 12 brings up many good points, although I go back 13 to the position advocated by Senator Marchi, 14 which is this is a balance. It's a balance 15 between making the land available and immunizing 16 the landowner from possible litigation versus 17 the right of someone, first time -- the problem 18 with gross negligence is it may require the 19 first person to fall through the bridge before 20 the landowner could be accused of gross 21 negligence. The first person who gets hurt 22 won't have a claim, and I think that shifts the 23 balance in this state, which I think was 6852 1 reasonably struck by this Legislature before, 2 shifts it in favor of the landowner and against 3 what could be an injured person, and I -- I - 4 although I understand the reasonableness in how 5 -- to quote another law school phrase, Senator 6 Stafford, that you and I are are familiar with. 7 This is one about which reasonable minds can 8 differ, I believe, and I think there's a 9 difference between the two of us on how this 10 balance should be struck and it's a very, very 11 finely tuned balance that we're dealing with. 12 So with all due respect, both to 13 -- Senator Hoffmann I thought had some good 14 points as well, I'm going to be voting in the 15 negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 17 Read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 21 Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6853 1 Results when they're tabulated. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar 700 are Senators 4 Babbush, Connor, Dollinger, Paterson and 5 Waldon. Ayes 43, nays -- also Senator Gold. 6 Ayes 42, nays 6. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 The bill is passed. 9 Continue reading the 10 controversial calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 884, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3091, an 13 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 14 cooperation between police agencies and the 15 United States Immigration and Naturalization 16 Service. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 19 Explanation is requested. 20 Senator Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 This bill mandates that when a 6854 1 person is arrested in this state, when there's 2 some indication of illegal status as an illegal 3 immigrant, that cooperation between that law 4 enforcement agency and the Immigration and 5 Naturalization Service should take place. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Men... Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 would Senator Padavan yield for a couple of 10 questions? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 13 Senator Padavan, some years ago 14 Mayor Koch issued an executive order denying the 15 agencies in the city the opportunity to ask 16 vital questions relating to status. Under your 17 legislation, does it supervene any executive 18 order by the state legislation that would deny 19 any law that -- any laws to be enacted that 20 would actually diminish the thrust of your 21 legislation? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: What you're 23 referring to, Senator Padavan, is Executive 6855 1 Order 124 -- Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: You're Senator 3 Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: You're talking 5 about Executive Order 124 issued by Mayor Koch a 6 number of years ago, and there was a section of 7 that executive order that if literally 8 interpreted would preclude the police department 9 from inquiring of a person who is involved in a 10 criminal act anything relevant to his immigra... 11 or his immigration status. 12 During the course of our work 13 over the past two years, we've had a lot of 14 contact with the mayors's office, a lot of 15 correspondence, a lot of dialogue. He indicates 16 -- his office indicates that with regard to 17 criminal activity, that portion of Executive 18 Order 124 has been amended, so that if someone 19 is arrested or involved in a crime and there's 20 any indication of unlawful entry into this 21 country, contact with INS would take place. 22 The trigger for that 23 determination occurred approximately a year 6856 1 ago. One illegal immigrant was arrested in the 2 Bronx for selling drugs. No inquiry was made at 3 that point in time relevant to the individual's 4 immigration status or anything else relevant to 5 that issue. He was allowed out on his own 6 recognizance. During the following two weeks, 7 he shot and killed a police officer. When he 8 was rearrested, it was determined that he was an 9 illegal immigrant, in this country unlawfully 10 and, of course, all of the things relevant to 11 that particular determination took place. 12 The issue became, if the police 13 department had done what the mayor's now 14 directing them to do, in that instance at the 15 very outset, that individual would not have had 16 the opportunity of killing the police officer, 17 who, by the way, anecdotally, parenthetically, 18 the police officer was a naturalized citizen 19 having at one time also been an immigrant. So 20 that is the genesis of this in one regard. 21 I could also share with you some 22 other things as well that might be pertinent, 23 but I hope I have answered your question. 6857 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Senator 4 Padavan has answered my question. 5 I was thinking in addition, I can 6 certainly understand the circumstances that 7 you're addressing, but what about schools and 8 the Health Department and that kind of thing? 9 Would those executive orders be overruled? 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: This particular 11 bill relates specifically and only to persons 12 arrested in the commission of a crime. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 14 Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 If Senator Padavan would continue 18 to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Will you continue to yield, Senator Padavan? 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 23 Padavan, the other day Senator Espada asked you 6858 1 something about xenophobia, which he described 2 as - 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- dialogue. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Fortunate - 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Unfortunate 6 dialogue. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: You thought 8 that was unfortunate dialogue? Well, you know, 9 it's one of those phobias like claustrophobia, 10 hydrophobia, agrophobia, which is fear of 11 heights -- what -- unfounded fear of strangers, 12 and there's agoraphobia, which we seem to have 13 here, fear of going outside. 14 Senator Paterson -- Senator 15 Padavan, did you know -- I really want to be 16 Senator Padavan, then I could really get rid of 17 this bill, but do you know what hotephobia is? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry. 19 What? 20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's fear of 21 travel. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Travel. Okay. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Then there's 6859 1 Hi-de-phobia; that's fear of Cab Calloway, but 2 that's another issue. 3 What we are really trying to 4 avoid in this kind of legislation, Senator, is 5 the abuse, particularly the number of incidents 6 that have been documented by a number of organi 7 zations where individuals have been harassed at 8 our borders, feeling that the police are already 9 cooperating with Immigration not to have the 10 situation -- particularly farm workers who come 11 into this country that don't speak the 12 language. 13 It's often hard, as Senator 14 Leichter described the other day, to produce the 15 proper identification and, really, although 16 there's an understanding of trying to generate 17 better cooperation between our law enforcement 18 and our Immigration Service, we're really trying 19 to avoid the potential for abuse in that area. 20 Do you care to comment on that at 21 all? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. I think 23 my response would be simply to read the bill, 6860 1 the very beginning, the very first paragraph: 2 "Every police agency in this 3 state as defined in law shall fully cooperate 4 with the United States Immigration and 5 Naturalization Service regarding any person who 6 is arrested under state law." 7 Any person who is arrested under 8 state law. That is the focus of this bill and 9 the entire issue relevant to the bill. So this 10 person has committed a crime and has been 11 arrested, and what we're saying, from that point 12 forward, issues relevant to the legal status - 13 legal status in this country. 14 I might refer you to something 15 that we discussed yesterday that I brought up in 16 the President's address to the nation on May 17 6th. Much of his presentation dealt with the 18 issue of illegal immigrants in terms of 19 deportation and immigrants who have been 20 involved with criminal acts. One of the things 21 he said -- and I'll read it to you. This is the 22 President of the United States. 23 "If they're sentenced to jail, 6861 1 they should go to jail, but after jail they 2 should be removed from the United States. And 3 when there is a plea bargain, I want deportation 4 to be part of the deal." That's the President. 5 Now, if there's no contact 6 between the law enforcement agencies that have 7 jurisdiction and INS, I don't see how the 8 President's admonition and request could ever 9 take place. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 12 Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: The 14 President's edict, I think, is well taken and 15 I'm glad that that you cited it, but specific to 16 your legislation and -- as reflected in the 17 Supreme Court case of Filer v. Dow in 1982, 18 don't you think that -- I don't think this 19 particular legislation does this, but don't you 20 think some of this legislation that we're 21 looking at that relates to immigration is going 22 beyond the scope of the state's authority? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6862 1 Senator Padavan. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: This particular 3 bill certainly does not. If, by virtue of 4 administrative directive or simply by virtue of 5 inaction, any local jurisdiction, police in the 6 state of New York, that fails to cooperate, one, 7 when it is appropriate to do so, in my view, is 8 negligent, and this bill would seek to address 9 that. Certainly it's within our authority to 10 ensure that if someone who has committed a crime 11 and is in this country illegally, they're 12 referred to any other jurisdiction. In this 13 case INS, so that whatever can take place, 14 particularly with regard to deportation, should 15 take place, and if there's any plea bargaining 16 that goes on that INS is involved in, and so on 17 -- and in reading what the President said, I'm 18 simply attempting to highlight the simple fact 19 that, if we are to accomplish what he wishes to 20 have accomplished, then cooperation between 21 states and the federal government is essential 22 as it is in many other areas, investigations of 23 drug activity, and so on, and so on. 6863 1 So, therefore, to answer your 2 question directly, it certainly not only is 3 within our authority, but I think it's part of 4 our responsibility to do this. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Would Senator 9 Padavan be willing to define for us the use of 10 the term "appropriate"? I know it's subjective, 11 but I think it's very important. It is his 12 bill, and what we're really addressing is the 13 fact that people are getting arrested. People 14 are getting held over. Often they don't have 15 any legal services, and in the end it's actually 16 determined that they're not illegal immigrants. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Padavan. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: The word is 20 subjective and, if they're not illegal 21 immigrants, then the bill doesn't apply. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 23 Padavan, what I'm trying to eliminate is for a 6864 1 large number of people who would maybe be 2 released later having to go through the 3 humiliation, if you will, of being American 4 citizens, for instance, and at the same time 5 being challenged every place they go because 6 they seem to resemble individuals who may be 7 illegal aliens. 8 Now, it's a difficult situation. 9 I understand that we're really trying to address 10 this issue, the President is, you are, and it's 11 probably a good time for us to actually do that, 12 but what I'm saying is that, at the same time, 13 we have citizens in this country who are 14 certainly perceiving that many of the laws that 15 we're enacting are going to be applied 16 specifically to their situation and they are 17 either legal permanent residents or one of the 18 other 13 categories of legal residency or they 19 are American citizens. I just hope you're 20 sympathetic to the problem that they feel. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: I am very 22 sympathetic, but I have to bring you back to 23 where we began, Senator. The only place that 6865 1 the people covered by this bill have been 2 brought to is to a jail. They have been 3 arrested for committing a crime. We're not 4 talking about other things and other venues, 5 people being inappropriately denied because of 6 perceptions and things we talked about 7 yesterday, no point to go over all of it again. 8 We're talking about somebody who has been 9 arrested, is in jail, the district attorney's 10 involved. Certainly it's very easy, on making a 11 referral to INS if that person himself can't 12 produce documentation, to determine whether 13 they're here legally in this country. 14 Now, if they're not, then the 15 kind of cooperation that the President is 16 calling for -- and I think serves us well if it 17 were implemented. Florida is doing it very 18 effectively. Last year they deported over 1,000 19 illegal immigrants who were in their criminal 20 justice system. I needn't remind you of the 21 cost savings involved, to say nothing of other 22 issues. 23 And so that kind of cooperation, 6866 1 I think, serves us well and should be -- should 2 be facilitated, it should be encouraged and, in 3 this particular case by virtue of this bill, be 4 mandated. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Padavan -- excuse me, Paterson. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: You too? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 9 You got me doing it. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: He's doing it 11 too. I -- as I said, really aspire to be 12 Senator Padavan one day. 13 Actually, Senator Padavan raises 14 some very relevant issues. We are beset with a 15 number of economic problems in this state. We 16 don't need them exacerbated by the presence of 17 illegal aliens who are driving up costs for 18 taxpayers who reside in this state, and yet at 19 the same time we think that some of the 20 proposals that Senator Padavan is making are 21 actually causing a number of American citizens, 22 people who are proud to live in this country, to 23 pay a very high price because, as American as 6867 1 they may be, they may in some respects resemble 2 those who are not. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Mendez. 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 6 wonder if Senator Padavan would yield for a 7 couple of questions. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 9 Senator Padavan, will you yield? 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Padavan, 12 last year during the summer we conducted some 13 hearings pertaining to the situation of -- of 14 the agricultural workers, the farm workers, and 15 I was very interested in one situation that is 16 happening in some counties, upstate New York, 17 and that is, it was reported to me and the task 18 force that there are some towns where you might 19 find that four or five farm workers, they get on 20 a car and they go to the village to buy, or 21 whatever, and that without there being any 22 reasonable cause for them to be stopped by a - 23 by an officer -- a police officer. In fact, 6868 1 they have been stopped; they have been 2 questioned what are they doing; they have been 3 demanded documentation to prove that they are 4 citizens, and on top of that, some of them have 5 been taken to local jails where they have paid 6 or stayed for two or three days. 7 Now, my question to you is the 8 following: I know what you're trying to do and 9 I agree with you that -- that people -- first of 10 all, people who are illegal, they shouldn't be 11 here. Secondly, people who are illegal and 12 commit a crime, I mean that's a little bit too 13 much for anybody to stomach, but my concern is 14 in your bill the process of finding out when 15 that person is an illegal alien will be when 16 that person is inside the jail? Is that the 17 point, when the local authorities will be 18 finding out if that person is an illegal alien, 19 once that person is arrested and in that jail? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's the only 21 time you could do it, Senator. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: I'm sorry? 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: I can't think 6869 1 of any other way to accom.... let me respond to 2 you. You gave this -- this dissertation or you 3 shared with us your views by virtue of 4 experience. I would tell you that we are under 5 a federal mandate to some degree right now to do 6 this. 7 As a matter of fact, in a report 8 that I got not too long ago, the Justice 9 Department has submitted an amendment to the 10 omnibus crime bill, you recall, that was adopted 11 lowering funding to cities, and I quote -- this 12 is a quote -- "That you have a policy of 13 non-cooperation with INS." So they're saying to 14 us, "You want to participate in this -- these 15 funds for crime prevention and criminal justice, 16 you're going to have to cooperate with us." 17 Now, that amendment was not 18 adopted at that time, but it still represents, I 19 think, an expression on the part of the Justice 20 Department as well as the President to say that 21 everywhere in this country we should cooperate 22 to whatever extent possible. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 6870 1 Senator Mendez. 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: I have a meeting 3 of the minds with you in terms of what you want 4 to do in this bill. What bothers me is that at 5 present in today's world there are areas in New 6 York State where people are being apprehended, 7 maybe because they look different or for 8 whatever reasons, and taken to jail, so that I 9 have -- although I agree with the need to do 10 this and your bill does, I am trying to find 11 some way whereby innocent people who are minding 12 their own business and that they are either 13 legal residents like most farm workers are - 14 excuse me. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Let me -- let 16 me make some - 17 SENATOR MENDEZ: Excuse me. 18 Excuse me. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Excuse me, Senator Padavan. 21 Continue, Senator Mendez. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 23 Thank you. Thank you both of you -- and that 6871 1 they're minding their own business and they 2 might be citizens. 3 See, farm workers, 15 percent of 4 the farm workers are Puerto Ricans like me. 60 5 percent are Central and South American and 6 Mexicans and other Hispanics and they come from 7 Central or South America or Mexico, and then the 8 rest of the percentage, they could be African 9 Americans or of African descent from the 10 islands, you know, from the Caribbean, so -- but 11 if they're farm workers, as a bill, they are - 12 because of immigration rules, they are legal 13 residents. 14 So in your bill, since this 15 situation is occurring now, what -- then this 16 will legitimize something that is illegal, 17 occurring now because of the good cause that you 18 want to, don't you think? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Senator Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: That was a long 22 question, ending with the question, "Don't you 23 think?" 6872 1 What I think is basically, 2 Senator, with all due respect -- and you realize 3 I have a great deal of respect -- everything you 4 said is not applicable. The bill says very 5 specifically -- listen to me -- persons who are 6 arrested in violation of state law. So the 7 person had to commit some type of criminal act. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: My question is 9 that at present there are some people that they 10 have not committed a crime, and yet because they 11 look different, they have been searched, the 12 clothes have been searched. They have been 13 taken to jail and wait two or three days when 14 they have not committed any crime. This is what 15 I'm trying to -- I see the merits of your bill, 16 but already because of this existing situation, 17 I have to be concerned. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Senator Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: In response to 22 your question, Senator, that is wrong. It would 23 be wrong without this bill. It would be wrong 6873 1 on the face of it. 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: Correct. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: This bill 4 doesn't encourage that nor does it exacerbate 5 that. It is totally irrelevant to that problem 6 which should be addressed in other ways, and to 7 say, however, because of that kind of abuse that 8 occurs, whenever it occurs, we should not do 9 what this bill says is - 10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Padavan. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Excuse me. 12 Just to finish answering your question -- is to 13 suggest that a negative justifies not doing a 14 positive, and I don't agree. 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Mendez. 18 SENATOR MENDEZ: That is the 19 wrong interpretation, Senator Padavan, about the 20 wrong - 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Let me answer. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: Hold it. 23 That's the wrong interpretation. 6874 1 What really should be done is that maybe your 2 bill -- you yourself could amend your bill to 3 include something to the effect that officers 4 are not -- that people who are unjustly 5 apprehended or with no relationship to a crime 6 or something, that somebody will be fined or to 7 prohibit that other harassment that is totally 8 unnecessary, to find a way to protect that 9 situation, to do something about that situation 10 so that I wouldn't be - 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will the 12 Senator yield? 13 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, is 15 that not already in our laws, that if someone is 16 arrested by a police officer inappropriately for 17 reasons that are not allowed by law, that 18 penalties would be imposed, both administrative 19 and other? Are these not part of our laws in 20 the state of New York already? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 22 Senator Mendez. 23 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 6875 1 Senator Padavan, you are from New 2 York City. I am from New York City. There are 3 many laws -- many laws that are in the books and 4 that yet are not followed by the office -- are 5 not enforced by the criminal justice system, and 6 there are others unfortunately that are being 7 enforced when they -- it's against the law to do 8 that, and in this instance, what's happening to 9 some of these farm workers is a reality and, by 10 law, they should -- that shouldn't happen. 11 So I have no problems with what 12 the President said in terms of as part of the 13 plea bargaining, to have deportation for illegal 14 aliens. No problems at all, Mr. President, with 15 the issue of -- illegal aliens shouldn't be 16 here, because illegal aliens shouldn't be here, 17 and on top of if, it that illegal alien commits 18 a crime, why should we pay for his 19 incarceration? But I do have great problems 20 with the kinds of injustices and denial of 21 rights that are being done today, in today's 22 world, with people that are just workers who are 23 trying to make a living and that many of them 6876 1 don't even speak the language and they don't 2 have any interpreters. They are stunned when 3 they are stopped in a car, and the car is 4 searched. All that is against individuals' 5 rights or because of that concern that I have, I 6 think, in a way, this will be -- this bill, 7 which you are not directing at that situation 8 because it's not your purpose to do so, but this 9 bill will, in fact, as I see it, legitimize that 10 -- those wrongdoings that are occurring at the 11 present time. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 14 Senator Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLINGER: Mr. President, 16 will Senator Padavan yield for one question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 20 President, will Senator Padavan yield to a 21 question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 23 Senator Padavan, will you yield? 6877 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, is 3 it currently a crime to give the people alien in 4 this state or in this country some penalty? 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, people 6 illegally in this country, the penalty is de 7 portation. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So under your 9 bill, as you say, you simply haven't linked what 10 they can do to every other address. That 11 determines whether they can -- what they can 12 do. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Says it right 14 here. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So what this 16 says, if I understand it, that the police says 17 if this burglar had attempted to burglarize 18 other houses, they would attempt to determine if 19 he was that other house burglar. Your bill says 20 if they're arrested for burglary and you think 21 they may be violating the immigration laws, that 22 they would simply go out and determine that 23 those laws have been violated. 6878 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's correct, 2 and it says that word or words in paragraph two 3 of the bill, in violation of the laws. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A question, 5 Mr. President. What happens, Senator Padavan, 6 after the notification to the INS occurs, the 7 deportation process would be commenced if there 8 was evidence? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Those would 10 vary with the circumstance. That will vary with 11 the circumstance, certainly, and if you had the 12 benefit of various situations that we've 13 collected over a period of a year or so, you 14 would see that the circumstances vary. 15 One case we talked about a police 16 officer being killed; another we found 17 situations of cooperation that eventually took 18 place involving exploitation of illegal 19 immigrants where they were violating the labor 20 laws, all kinds of things, health and safety 21 laws, federal and state, and it was through 22 cooperation between all law enforcement agencies 23 and INS, bringing everybody else into the act, 6879 1 that action was finally taken. So it would 2 depend on what the arrest was for, the 3 circumstances surrounding the individual, as to 4 what the final outcome would be, and I really 5 can't give you any definitive answer. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 9 Mr. President. 10 I think this bill, as Senator 11 Padavan correctly describes it, simply alerts 12 the police agencies in this state to the fact 13 that, if there's reasonable suspicion of the 14 illegal entry into this country, that they 15 should check out and determine whether this 16 accused is an illegal alien. 17 I see that as something that we 18 should be doing in this state. I see it as 19 something that we want our police authorities to 20 do, which is when someone is arrested for Crime 21 A, and there's reasonable suspicion that they 22 are committing Crime B, that we should require 23 them to determine whether Crime B has been 6880 1 committed or not; so I don't see this bill as a 2 significant departure from what we're doing 3 currently, although I do think it has value 4 because it alerts our police agencies to be 5 aware of the illegal immigration problem and 6 people who are arrested, if there's reasonable 7 suspicion, should be required to produce 8 evidence that they are in this country legally. 9 We talked yesterday when we did 10 the immigration bill with respect to education, 11 that I think the concern is of many people in 12 this chamber about what constitutes reasonable 13 suspicion. I believe that if you've got someone 14 who's arrested, reasonable suspicion has to be 15 based on more than just surnames. It has to be 16 based on more than just color, but I think our 17 Constitution provides standards under which 18 reasonable suspicion can be analyzed legally. 19 We have constitutional 20 protections even for illegal aliens that would 21 protect them and allow them to both assert the 22 defense of probable cause when they're arrested 23 and assert the defense of reasonable suspicion 6881 1 at the time they are held over or investigated 2 for violation of the immigration laws. 3 So I see this bill as a good 4 step. I'm going to vote in favor of it. As we 5 continue to try to deal with this difficult 6 problem of illegal immigration, it seems to me 7 this is a good step. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Anybody 9 else on the bill? 10 Senator Waldon, I guess I got you 11 on the list, and did you, Senator Abate, did you 12 want to - 13 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 15 Waldon. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. President. 18 Senator Padavan, would you yield 19 to a question, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 21 Padavan, would you yield to a question from 22 Senator Waldon? 23 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are you 6882 1 familiar with the arrest cards -- I don't know 2 about the state, but are you familiar with the 3 arrest cards of the city of New York? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry. I 5 didn't hear you. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Are you aware of 7 the arrest card form utilized by the New York 8 City Police Department? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: I know such a 10 thing exists. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 12 much. On the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: On the 14 bill, Senator Waldon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: The arrest card 16 that I asked Senator Padavan about basically 17 requires the officer to seek the information 18 which would codify what this bill is attempting 19 to do. You must tell -- you must try to find 20 out the person's name, birth place, citizenship, 21 et cetera. 22 On its face, at first blush, this 23 bill is not -- is not a danger, but in the city 6883 1 of New York under the current administration, 2 police brutality charges are up in excess of 40 3 percent. 4 Many of these police brutality 5 situations are the result of illegal stops, 6 illegal searches and seizures, and I can speak 7 definitively about this because I've witnessed 8 two of them personally. I just happened to be 9 at a place where they occurred, but I can tell 10 you, my colleagues, that literally hundreds of 11 people are coming to my office and to the 12 offices of Senator Smith and the Assembly people 13 and Congress people who represent Southeast 14 Queens, to complain that the police are now 15 taking license to do whatever they want to do in 16 terms of stopping people. All too often and 17 most regrettably, the people they stop look like 18 me. The people they stop are from the 19 Caribbean. The people they stop speak Spanish 20 and are from Puerto Rico or Venezuela or another 21 Spanish speaking nation in the western 22 hemisphere, and I think that is abhorrent, and 23 so my fear about this legislation that it will 6884 1 extend -- and I will conclude momentarily -- it 2 will extend the opportunity for police 3 departments to illegally stop -- illegally 4 search and find something after they've done 5 this to someone, and make an arrest and 6 exacerbate this problem and, for that reason, 7 I'm extremely troubled by this legislation and, 8 therefore, will vote against it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 10 Abate. 11 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Will 12 Senator Padavan yield to a question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: Senator 14 Padavan, would you yield to a question from 15 Senator Abate? 16 SENATOR ABATE: This is a point 17 of clarification. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FARLEY: I think 19 he will. 20 SENATOR ABATE: Clearly, in order 21 to arrest someone, clearly an officer must have 22 probable cause, and then the burden that you 23 outline in this legislation to go further is 6885 1 reasonable suspicion that someone may be an 2 illegal alien. 3 Why not, because we're talking 4 about a separate crime, it's not incident to the 5 first crime -- let's say I'm a defendant. I'm 6 arrested for burglary. I'm searched, clearly 7 incident to that burglary charge, and now you're 8 saying I'm in custody that all the police need 9 is reasonable suspicion. Why can you not drop 10 the probable cause to believe? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Because, 12 Senator, the issue relates only to reporting. 13 There's no penalty. There's no other further 14 action under our penal code. The reasonable 15 suspicion only relates to the requirement of 16 reporting to INS, nothing more. So there is no 17 law in the way you've outlined. 18 SENATOR ABATE: So there's 19 obviously a lesser burden on the police - 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: It's purely an 21 administrative one. 22 SENATOR ABATE: All right. Now, 23 how would they get this information? Is there 6886 1 anything indicated by the statute that the 2 defendant is required to give or provide this 3 information? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry. 5 SENATOR ABATE: I'm sorry. Is 6 there anything in the statute that compels the 7 defendant to give this information? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, no, nothing 9 that compels them other than what existing law 10 provides for already. I don't know how we could 11 go beyond what existing law indicates. You 12 know, I was disturbed by the previous question, 13 I'd like to, in answering your question use it 14 as a vehicle to do so, when we talked about 15 abuse. 16 You may have heard about this 17 terrible tragedy recently uncovered where 30 18 young women from Thailand were smuggled into 19 this country, the idea, of course, of their 20 being here and benefiting as immigrants, but 21 when they got here, they were put into slavery 22 as prostitutes. They were told they had to have 23 sex at least 400 times before they could be 6887 1 released. 2 Now, here's the part of the story 3 I'd like to read to you. It says, The brothel 4 was discovered when one of the alleged captives 5 told investigators from the Mayor's Task Force 6 on Midtown Enforcement that she was being held 7 against her will. A three-month investigation 8 followed, involving INS agents, officers from 9 the Police Department's Public Morals Division 10 and Downtown Manhattan 5th Police Precinct. 11 That is an example of what we 12 want to see done. If INS hadn't been involved 13 -- and the whole story here goes into great 14 detail how they then determine who the people 15 were who were also illegal immigrants who are 16 running this, operating this venture, and so on, 17 and so on. So these -- these situations become 18 very involved, very, very convoluted, but there 19 has to be a starting point. 20 The starting point here was 21 contacting INS after the local police were given 22 information by one of the victims. 23 SENATOR ABATE: There's just one 6888 1 other question that I have. You may not be 2 aware, but there is a practice in certain cases 3 by the police, I mean obviously we need to 4 ensure speedy arraignments, and the arraignment 5 time does not begin, that someone has to be, 6 under the law, arraigned within 24 hours of the 7 arrest, but sometimes the police -- and I'm 8 afraid there could be abuse here and you may - 9 we may need to refine this down the road or, if 10 you amend this, is that this should not delay 11 the speedy arraignment because I would not like 12 to see as an excuse that someone is arrested and 13 then the police say they have to continue to 14 investigate, to keep someone down at central 15 booking for many, many hours, maybe days, before 16 they bring them over to arraignment, investigat 17 ing whether someone is an illegal alien, and 18 that would be, I think, an abuse of the intent 19 of this statute. 20 Now, do you think this -- the way 21 it's written - 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: This statute, 23 in no way, offends, contradicts, subverts, 6889 1 undermines any existing statute such as the ones 2 you outline. Nor could it, so it's not a 3 question of interpretation. It's a matter of 4 law. The requirements you properly articulated 5 remain in law and are not at all affected by 6 this required procedure involving federal 7 notification. 8 SENATOR ABATE: May I suggest, if 9 this bill is ever amended, that there would be 10 language that would say that no defendant for 11 the purposes of investigation should be 12 unnecessarily detained in order to get this 13 information, and I think that's very important 14 to be included in the legislation. 15 I ask you, Senator, to maybe 16 consider that, if this does not pass, become law 17 this year. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm not 19 quarreling with you; I'm just saying it's 20 already law, but keep one thing in mind. If, 21 after notification to a federal authority, it's 22 determined that person is here illegally, then 23 the federal law is kicked in automatically in 6890 1 terms of detention which, as you remember the 2 story I told you earlier about the policeman 3 that was killed, if that had taken place he 4 wouldn't have been killed, so I think we have to 5 be careful when we deal with that issue but, to 6 restate existing law, I have no problem with it 7 except that I'd want to make it clear that this 8 does not in any way violate existing law. 9 SENATOR ABATE: Maybe, let me 10 just clarify. What happens now is the police 11 will say, we did not make an arrest at 1100 12 hours because we were still investigating. We 13 made the arrest later, so the clock does not run 14 on the 24 hours, and I would hate to see that, 15 as the officers are doing their continuing 16 investigation, the arrest occur much later, 17 maybe days later, when people are necessarily 18 helped for long periods of time. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 20 to answer your question. If you read the bill, 21 everything required here takes place after the 22 arrest, so the clock is ticking. 23 SENATOR ABATE: That's -- O. K. 6891 1 Thank you very much. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 10 the results when tabulated. 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 884 are Senators 13 Connor, Gold, Paterson, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 14 -- also Senator Mendez. Ayes 43, nays 6. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Abate, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I'd like to 19 be recorded -- I ask for unanimous consent to be 20 recorded in the negative on Calendar 700. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection. Hearing no objection - 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 6892 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: - 2 Senator Abate will be recorded in the negative 3 on Calendar Number 700. 4 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I got 6 confused on the last bill because of the 7 sponsorship. Could I be recorded in the 8 affirmative, please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative on the 11 last calendar calling, on Calendar Number 884. 12 Senator Paterson, why do you 13 rise? 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 15 the house just passed Number 884. Senator 16 Santiago, who was excused today due to the 17 unfortunate illness of her son and will not be 18 back with us for about ten days -- and we extend 19 our best wishes to Senator Santiago and her 20 entire family for the speedy recovery for her 21 son -- but I just wanted to explain why she will 22 explain why she would have voted in the negative 23 on Calendar Number 884. Just want to make a 6893 1 record of that. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 3 right. We will make a record of that. We'll 4 look forward to her comments when she returns. 5 Our best wishes to her son. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you call 8 on Senator Holland, please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Holland. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, I would 12 request that the sponsor's star be removed from 13 Calendar Number 727. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor's 15 star will be removed from Calendar Number 727 at 16 the request of the sponsor. 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you please 19 bring up Calendar Number 1027. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the title of Calendar Number 1027. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1027, by Senator Sears, Senate Print Number 6894 1 3331, an act in relation to authorizing the town 2 of Lee, county of Oneida, to lease certain park 3 lands. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 9 a home rule message at the desk. Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Libous. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 17 is there a Rules report at the desk? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Libous, I'm informed by the Secretary there is. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could we have it 21 read, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 23 like it read? We'll return to reports of 6895 1 standing committees. Secretary will read the 2 Rules report at the desk. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 4 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 5 following bills: 6 Senate Print 2678, by Senator 7 Rath, an act to amend the General Business Law, 8 in relation to hotel rooms; 9 1218, by Senator Present, an act 10 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 11 to municipal contingency and tax stabilization 12 reserve funds; 13 1354, by Senator Sears, an act to 14 amend the General Business Law, in relation to 15 barring discriminatory practices by consumer 16 reporting agencies; 17 2210, by Senator Skelos, Senate 18 -- an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 19 exempting from sales and use taxes receipts from 20 sales of photocopies; 21 2365, by Senator Volker, an act 22 to establish a moratorium on requiring any 23 disconnection from the Letchworth State Park 6896 1 water line; 2 2561, by Senator Leibell, an act 3 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to restoring 4 the former corporate tax procedure for refunding 5 overpayments of tax; 6 2664, by Senator Velella, an act 7 to amend the General Business Law, in relation 8 to price gouging; 9 3077, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 10 amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 11 relation to permitting the discharge of a fire 12 arm for the purpose of killing certain rabid 13 animals; 14 3119, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 15 amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 16 relation to the definition of angling; 17 3133, by Senator Johnson, an act 18 to amend the General Business Law, in relation 19 to limitations to certain contracts involving 20 social referral services; 21 3989, by Senator Stafford, an act 22 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 23 investigating lottery sales agents and 6897 1 applicants for lottery sales agent licenses; 2 4796, by Senator Rath, an act to 3 incorporate the Voluntary and Exempt 4 Firefighters Benevolent Association of the city 5 of Tonawanda, Incorporated; 6 5069, by Senator Present, an act 7 authorizing the county of Chautauqua to 8 discontinue for reforestation purposes the use 9 of certain lands; 10 5179, by the Committee on Rules, 11 an act to amend Chapter 590 of the Laws of 1993, 12 amending the Public Authorities Law; 13 And 5197, by Senator Nozzolio, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 15 adjudication of an unlawful escape for -- by a 16 person under 16 years of age. 17 All bills ordered directly for 18 third reading. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, all bills reported directly to third 21 reading. 22 Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 6898 1 move to accept the Rules report. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 3 to accept the Rules report. 4 All those in favor signify by 5 saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The Rules report is accepted. 10 Bills reported directly to third reading. 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 13 is there any housekeeping? 14 I believe Senator Marchi maybe. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 16 recognizes Senator Marchi. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I wish to call up my bill Print 20 772 recalled from the Assembly which is now at 21 the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the title. 6899 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 770, by 2 Senator Marchi, Senate Print 74, an act to amend 3 the Real Property Law, in relation to modifying 4 the real estate continuing education 5 requirement. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Marchi. 8 SENATOR MARCHI: I now offer the 9 following amendments, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 11 want to reconsider the vote by which that bill 12 passed the house, Senator? Motion is to 13 reconsider the vote by which the bill passed the 14 house. Secretary will call the roll on 15 reconsideration. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 20 before the house. 21 Senator Marchi. Want to offer up 22 the amendments? 23 SENATOR MARCHI: I offer the 6900 1 amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 3 Amendments are received and adopted. 4 Chair recognizes Senator Marchi. 5 SENATOR MARCHI: On page number 6 33, Calendar Number 860, Print Number 3499, I 7 offer the following amendments and ask that it 8 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Amendments received and adopted. The bill will 11 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 12 Senator Marchi. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: And on page 28, 14 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 15 Number 779, Senate 4853, and ask that said bill 16 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Amendments to Third Reading 779 received and 19 adopted. Bill will retain its place on the 20 Third Reading Calendar. 21 Senator Libous. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 23 is there any other housekeeping? 6901 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That 2 completes the housekeeping, Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 4 have a couple of announcements. 5 There will be a Majority 6 Conference at 2:00 p.m. in Room 332 and, there 7 being no further business, Mr. President, the 8 Senate will be at ease until 2:30. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 10 will be a Majority Conference in the Majority 11 Conference Room at 2:00 p.m. Senator DiCarlo 12 will not be taking attendance. 13 Senate will stand in recess until 14 2:30. 15 (Whereupon at 12:10 p.m., the 16 Senate recessed until 2:30 p.m.) 17 (The Senate reconvened at 2:50 18 p.m.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 20 Senator Libous. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 22 there being no further business, I move that we 23 adjourn until Tuesday, May 30th, at 3:00 p.m., 6902 1 intervening days to be legislative days. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 3 Adjourned until Tuesday, May 30th, at 3:00 p.m. 4 (Whereupon, at 2:51 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned.) 6 7 8 9 10