Tuesday, May 30, 1995

6915 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 May 30, 1995 10 3:00 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 6916 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come to order. Ask the members to find 4 their chairs, staff to find their places. 5 Ask everybody in the chamber to 6 rise with me and say the Pledge of Allegiance to 7 the Flag. 8 (Whereupon, the Senate and those 9 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to 10 the Flag.) 11 In the absence of clergy, may we 12 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 13 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 14 silence.) 15 Reading of the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, May 29. The Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. Senator Farley in the chair upon 19 designation of Temporary President. The Journal 20 of Sunday, May 28, was read and approved. On 21 motion, Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 23 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 6917 1 read. 2 Presentation of petitions. 3 Messages from the Assembly. 4 Messages from the Governor. 5 Reports of standing committees. 6 Reports of select committees. 7 Communications and reports from 8 state officers. 9 Motions and resolutions. 10 Chair recognizes Senator Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. On behalf of Senator Goodman, please 13 place a sponsor star on Calendar Number 99. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the 15 request of the sponsor, Calendar Number 99 will 16 be starred. 17 Senator Tully. 18 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 19 President. Again, on behalf of Senator Goodman, 20 I wish to call up Calendar Number 98, Assembly 21 Print Number 1700. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the title. 6918 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 98, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1367, an 3 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, 4 in relation to autographed sports collectibles. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Tully. 7 SENATOR TULLY: I now move to 8 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 9 was substituted for Senate Print Number 1367 on 10 March 13. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 13 (The Secretary called the roll on 14 reconsideration.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is before the house. 18 Senator Tully. 19 SENATOR TULLY: I now move that 20 Assembly Bill Number 1700 be recommitted to the 21 Committee on Investigations, Taxation, and 22 Government Operations and Senator Goodman's bill 23 be restored to the order of the Third Reading 6919 1 Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Assembly bill will be recommitted. The Senate 4 bill will be restored to the Third Reading 5 Calendar. 6 Senator Tully. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. I 8 now offer the following amendments. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 amendments are received and adopted. 11 Senator Tully. 12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. On behalf of Senator Holland, I wish 14 to call up his bill, Print Number 143, recalled 15 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the title. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 9, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 143, an act 20 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal 21 possession of public assistance identification 22 cards. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6920 1 Tully. 2 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I now move to reconsider the vote by 4 which this bill was passed. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 7 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call 8 the roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is before the house. 14 Senator Tully. 15 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. I 16 now offer the following amendments. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 amendments are received and adopted. 19 Senator Stachowski, why do you 20 rise? 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 22 President. On behalf of Senator Gold, on page 23 number 26, I offer the following amendments to 6921 1 Calendar 748, Senate Print number 193A, and ask 2 that said bill retain its place on the Third 3 Reading Calendar. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Amendments are received and adopted. 6 Senator Sears. 7 SENATOR SEARS: Mr. President. 8 Would you remove the star on Calendar Number 9 894, Senate Print 1355B. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Star is 11 removed on Calendar Number 894 at the request of 12 the sponsor. 13 Senator Bruno, that brings us to 14 the calendar. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 16 Can we at this time recognize Senator Kruger for 17 some information that may be of interest to the 18 membership here. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 recognizes Senator Kruger for I believe an 21 announcement. 22 SENATOR KRUGER: Thank you, 23 Senator Bruno. 6922 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Kruger, excuse me for just a minute, will you? 3 Let's get this chamber in order. Let's quiet 4 down. We won't proceed until it's quiet in the 5 chamber. 6 Thank you for the indulgence, 7 Senator Kruger. 8 Senator Kruger. 9 SENATOR KRUGER: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 I would like to announce that a 12 decision was rendered today in a lawsuit that 13 was filed by myself and Senator Montgomery and 14 other plaintiffs concerning the Governor's 15 denial of our legislative salaries. 16 In a memorandum decision today, 17 Judge Gilbert Ramirez in Supreme Court in Kings 18 County directed the Governor that the next 19 appropriation bill that is sent to the 20 Legislature must include the salaries for the 21 members of the State Legislature. 22 In making that memorandum 23 decision, Justice Ramirez pointed out that 6923 1 today's ruling reaffirms a basic fact about 2 state government, that there's a good reason why 3 no governor is above the New York State 4 Constitution. 5 Without going into great detail, 6 I think that it's important that we recognize 7 today that this decision that was rendered 8 speaks loud and clear of the overwhelming issue 9 of not so much the question of whether or not 10 legislators were paid their salaries but the 11 interference of the Governor in what is the 12 workings of the Legislature and our right as an 13 independent body of government. 14 I thank my other plaintiffs in 15 joining me in this action, and we hope that this 16 will set a precedent not only for now but for 17 the future that Governor Pataki has a clear and 18 compelling message, that the workings of this 19 Legislature are independent of the Governor, and 20 we will not be coerced by using our pocketbooks 21 when the question of conscience and good 22 judgment should be applied. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6924 1 Bruno. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 3 Can we at this time go to the noncontroversial 4 calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the noncontroversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 8 Calendar 181, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 9 2444A, an act to amend the Real Property Law, in 10 relation to disclosure obligations. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 240, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2405, an act 23 to amend the Civil Rights Law, in relation to 6925 1 prohibiting the state from imposing certain fees 2 on persons who change their names. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect in 30 days. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 11 the results when tabulated. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. Nays 13 1. Senator Marcellino recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 337, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 539A, an act 18 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 19 student refunds of certain financial aid grants. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 359, by 6926 1 Senator Trunzo, Senate Bill 3661B, an act to 2 amend the Civil Service Law, in relation to 3 conforming the terminology and procedures with 4 the existing practice for obtaining a guide dog. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 445, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 2272A, an act 17 to amend the Economic Development Law, in 18 relation to enacting the Advanced Technology Act 19 of 1995. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6927 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 5 the results when tabulated. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. Nays 7 1. Senator Libous recorded in the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 630, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 3468, an 12 act to amend the Parks, Recreation, and Historic 13 Preservation Law, in relation to certain 14 payments to state park policemen. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 640, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 2883, an act 20 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 21 relation to increasing penalties for leaving the 22 scene of an accident without reporting. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6928 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 681, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 3593A, an 13 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 14 the definition of certified dental assisting. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6929 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 696, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4010, an act 4 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 5 to authorizing and establishing compensation for 6 members of the Genesee Valley Regional Market 7 Authority. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973B. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 23 Leader. 6930 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 758, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 4313, an act 3 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 4 relation to unit pricing in fluid ounces for 5 certain infant foods. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 761, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1296, 18 concurrent resolution of the Senate and 19 Assembly, proposing amendments to Article 6 of 20 the Constitution, in relation to the number of 21 judicial departments and districts. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 question is on the resolution. 6931 1 All in favor, signify by saying 2 aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Opposed, nay. 5 (There was no response.) 6 The resolution is adopted. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 792, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4172A, an act 9 to amend Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1990 10 creating the Ethelbert B. Crawford Library 11 District. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 812, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1101A, an act 6932 1 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in 2 relation to the period of limitation for an 3 action by a victim of a criminal offense. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 827, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4381. 16 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay the bill 17 aside for the day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 851, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 1867A, an 22 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation 23 to penalties and forfeitures for violations 6933 1 relating to motor carriers. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43 -- 53. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 853, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2313, an act 14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay the bill 16 aside for the day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 855, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2562, an 21 act providing for the exclusion of certain 22 commercial motor vehicles from a portion of the 23 Bear Mountain State Parkway. 6934 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 857, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3240, an 13 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 14 relation to increasing the penalty for 15 obstructing access by a fire vehicle to a fire 16 hydrant during time of emergency operation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect on the first day of 21 November. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 6935 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 858, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 3466, an 7 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation 8 to disclosure by common carriers of liability 9 and protection. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 900, by Senator Present, Senate Print 471, an 22 act to amend the Public Lands Law, in relation 23 to state aid payments for certain state-owned 6936 1 lands. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Bruno, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR BRUNO: I would like to 5 ask that a meeting of the Corporations Committee 6 called off the floor in Room 332 immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 8 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 9 Committee on Corporations in the Majority 10 Conference Room, Room 332. 11 Secretary will read the last 12 section. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 940, by Member of the Assembly Matusow, Assembly 18 Print 6345A, an act to amend the Alcoholic 19 Beverage Control Law, in relation to authorizing 20 farm winery licenses. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6937 1 963, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3108, an 2 act to amend the Civil Service Law and others, 3 in relation to certain United States civilians 4 serving in World War II. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 967, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 3961A, an act 17 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to motor 18 vehicle insurance coverage for certain persons 19 in the armed forces. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 6938 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 972, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3932A, an act 9 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 10 relation to milk control and to repeal certain 11 provisions of such law relating thereto. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1014, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 68, an 17 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 18 relation to the admissibility of evidence of 19 criminal possession of a weapon. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6939 1 1018, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 670, an 2 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to make 3 unlawful immigration a Class C felony. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1024, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 2612, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 10 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled 11 substances. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 15 Leader. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1026, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3065, an 18 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the 19 Penal Law and the Family Court Act, in relation 20 to making persons 12 to 15 years of age eligible 21 for juvenile offender treatment. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6940 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1033, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 268, an act 4 to amend the General Business Law, in relation 5 to hotel rooms. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect on the first day of 10 November. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1034, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1218, an 19 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 20 relation to municipal contingency and tax 21 stabilization reserve funds. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 6941 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1035, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1354, an 11 act to amend the General Business Law, in 12 relation to barring discriminatory practices by 13 consumer reporting agencies. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the first day of 18 September. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6942 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1036, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2210, an 4 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 5 exempting from sales and use taxes receipts from 6 sales of photocopies. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the first day of 11 December. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 15 Senator Leichter, did you want 16 the bill laid aside? 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 will be laid aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1038, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2561, an 22 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 23 restoring the former corporate tax procedure for 6943 1 refunding overpayments of tax. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1039, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 2664, an 7 act to amend the General Business Law, in 8 relation to price gouging. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1041, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3119, an act 21 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 22 relation to the definition of angling. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6944 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 8 the results when tabulated. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar 1041 are Senators 11 Holland, Leibell, Leichter, Maltese, Maziarz, 12 Montgomery and Sears, also Senator Padavan. 13 Ayes 46. Nays 8. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1042, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3233, an 18 act to amend the General Business Law, in 19 relation to limitations to certain contracts 20 involving social referral services. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 6945 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1043, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3989, an 3 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 4 investigating lottery sales agents. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside for 6 the day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside for the day. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1044, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4796, an act 11 to incorporate the Volunteer and Exempt Fire 12 Fighters Benevolent Association of the city of 13 Tonawanda. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 6946 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1046, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 3 5179, an act to amend Chapter 590 of the Laws of 4 1993, amending the Public Authorities Law, 5 relating to the approval of the Public 6 Authorities Control Board. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1047, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5197, an 12 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 13 adjudication of an unlawful escape by a person 14 under 16 years of age. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the first day of 19 November. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 6947 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 Senator Bruno, that completes the 4 noncontroversial calendar. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 6 Can we at this time recognize Senator Volker. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 8 recognizes Senator Volker. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 10 In the chamber upstairs to the left here is a 11 group of officials from the Republic of China, 12 from the Liaoning Province in China which is a 13 province of China near the Korean border. 14 These various officials who I 15 will introduce in just a second -- I will do the 16 best I can to introduce them -- are a group of 17 people who are here in the United States, taking 18 a tour of the United States, and have been 19 discussing with a company called Ecology and 20 Environment, which is a company that does 21 environmental programs not only in the United 22 States but throughout the world. 23 Ecology and Environment is doing 6948 1 an engineering program designed to improve the 2 air quality in the Liaoning Province of China. 3 They were the guests today at a 4 luncheon by the president of Ecology and 5 Environment, who is up in the upstairs here 6 also, Gerhard Neumaier, president of Ecology and 7 Environment. 8 And let me give you the names of 9 those people who are here who are officials from 10 various parts of Liaoning Province: 11 Mr. Cong Zhenglong is Vice 12 Governor of Liaoning Province. 13 Mr. Mu Suixin is Director of the 14 Liaoning Planning Commission. 15 Mr. Zhang Heling is the Vice 16 Director of the Liaoning Planning Commission. 17 Mr. Lu Xin is Vice Director of 18 the Liaoning Finance Department. 19 Mr. Liu Shihe is the Vice Mayor 20 of Anshan, which is a city in Liaoning Province. 21 Mr. Zhao Xiquan is Vice Mayor of 22 Fushan, a city in the Liaoning Province. 23 Mr. Wu Zuozhang is Division Chief 6949 1 of the Liaoning Finance Department. 2 Mr. Zeng Juegun is Director of 3 Liaoning Urban Construction and Renewal Project 4 Office. 5 Mr. Guan Caibin is Vice Director 6 of the Urban Construction and Renewal Project 7 Office. 8 Mr. Qiu Guangyu is Deputy 9 Director of the Shengyang Construction 10 Commission. 11 If these gentlemen to my left 12 here will apologize, I'm sure I completely 13 crucified their names, but I had Mr. Walsh, who 14 is their representative in Ecology and 15 Environment, try to do it phonetically so I 16 could do a better job. 17 But I do want to have them 18 recognized. I know that they speak very little 19 English, but I do want to say that we're happy 20 to have you here. We're happy that you are 21 dealing with an American company, especially a 22 company that happens to come from my hometown. 23 In fact, its headquarters happens to be about 6950 1 four or five blocks from where I live, and we're 2 happy to have you here in Albany and the United 3 States and good luck and we're happy to deal 4 with you and congratulations. 5 (Applause.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 7 recognizes Senator Bruno. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 9 Can we at this time take up the controversial 10 calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the controversial calendar beginning 13 with Calendar Number 337. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 15 Calendar 337, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 16 539A, an act to amend the Education Law, in 17 relation to student refunds of certain financial 18 aid grants. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Rath, an explanation of Calendar 337 has been 21 asked for by the Acting Minority Leader, Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 6951 1 President. 2 Senator Paterson, you may recall 3 last year there was a day that I came in 4 outraged and passed around that morning's 5 Buffalo News because we found that a woman who 6 was a student at Buffalo State College had been 7 engaging in illegal activities, in this case was 8 part of a prostitution ring; came to find out 9 after we looked at it a little further that the 10 woman was receiving student aid. 11 As we pursued the activity in 12 getting more information, we found that the 13 Higher Education Services Corporation has a very 14 difficult time singling out and getting 15 information because there is no cooperation with 16 the State's criminal justice system in this 17 regard so that that information can flow back 18 and forth, because it is our belief that such 19 fraudulent activities take aid away from other 20 students who are more deserving, and we've spent 21 a lot of time on this floor talking about 22 students who are very deserving. 23 The legislation covers felonies 6952 1 and misdemeanors not violations. 2 If there are some further 3 questions, I'd certainly be glad to answer them. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson, I assume because you rose that you had 6 another question to ask Senator Rath, but I 7 don't know how she would be able to hear the 8 question with the noise that's going on in this 9 chamber. I would ask the members if they are 10 going to have a conversation to please take the 11 conversations out of the chamber. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 13 President. If Senator Rath would yield for a 14 brief question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Rath, do you yield? 17 SENATOR RATH: Sure. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 yields. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Rath, 21 I think the position is well stated and the 22 issue is well merited, and I think your outrage 23 is quite justified. 6953 1 The question I have relates to an 2 ancillary situation that being that you included 3 in the legislation the spouse or the parents of 4 the student. In some cases, you might have a 5 situation where the student is technically 6 married but separated and then becomes culpable 7 under your legislation for the actions of the 8 spouse; and, in any event, the actions of the 9 spouse even if there isn't such a situation, or 10 the parent, might very well not be known or 11 recognized by the student, and I think this is 12 an unnecessary way to punish what may be exactly 13 what we are talking about protecting, which is 14 the deserving student. 15 I wanted to know if you would 16 consider altering the legislation so that those 17 students who are deserving but are unfortunately 18 victimized by their association with criminals 19 might not be in any way hurt by the actions of 20 others? 21 SENATOR RATH: It is my 22 understanding, Senator Paterson, that at the 23 time that the student applies for the tuition 6954 1 assistance, they have to have had notification. 2 There has to be information that they would have 3 known that this was a circumstance that would 4 have made them ineligible, and it is also my 5 understanding that in relation to taxation, 6 again, it is the same kind of provision that 7 they have to be knowledgeable of it at the time 8 that they make the statement that they are 9 applying for the student aid. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Just to 13 clarify, if Senator Rath would yield? 14 SENATOR RATH: Sure. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: So in other 16 words, we're not talking about a situation where 17 the student is unaware that the illegal activity 18 existed and that either the student themself 19 or the spouse or the parent benefited and by the 20 fact that they are contributing to the education 21 of the student they are now in a sense accepting 22 state aid where they have substituted criminal 23 aid. 6955 1 SENATOR RATH: Yes, you are 2 correct on that. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President and Senator Rath. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 630, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 3468, an 19 act to amend the Parks, Recreation, and Historic 20 Preservation Law, in relation to certain 21 payments to state park policemen. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson. 6956 1 SENATOR PATERSON: May we have an 2 an explanation on that bill? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Hannon, an explanation of Calendar Number 620 - 5 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation 6 provides - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 8 me. -- 630 has been asked for by Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation 11 provides members of state park police force with 12 the identical disability benefits and procedures 13 and protections that other members of police 14 agencies have in this state. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6957 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973B, an act 4 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 5 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by 6 persons under the age of 21. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside at 8 the request of the sponsor for one day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside for the day at the request of the 11 sponsor. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 900, by Senator Present, Senate Print 471, an 14 act to amend the Public Lands Law, in relation 15 to state aid payments for certain state owned 16 lands. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 18 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Present, an explanation of Calendar Number 900 22 has been asked for by the Acting Minority 23 Leader, Senator Paterson. 6958 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. This applies to land known as the 3 West Valley Demonstration Project which was a 4 project dealing with low-level, high-level 5 radioactive waste. This will bring in to date 6 the assessed value of that property and cause 7 the state to pay the Town of Ashford, the West 8 Valley School District and the County of 9 Cattauragus a fair amount of taxes in lieu of 10 taxes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 14 President. Would Senator Present yield for a 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present, do you yield for a question? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 22 Present, do you know why Senator Leichter laid 23 this bill aside? 6959 1 SENATOR PRESENT: No, I haven't 2 talked to Senator Leichter. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, I 4 haven't the slightest idea. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 940, by Member of the Assembly Matusow, Assembly 17 Print 6345A. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside for the day at the request of the 20 sponsor. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 972, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3932A, an act 23 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 6960 1 relation to milk control and to appeal certain 2 provisions of such law relating thereto. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside for the day. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1014, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 68, an 8 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 9 relation to the admissibility of evidence of 10 criminal. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Star the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 13 Number 1014 will be starred at the request of 14 the sponsor. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1018, by Senator Padavan, Calendar Number 670, 17 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 18 making unlawful immigration a Class C felony. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Padavan, an explanation has been asked for on 22 Calendar Number 1018 by Senator Paterson. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 6961 1 President. This legislation would make alien 2 smuggling a Class C felony and provide for the 3 seizure of assets and instruments of that 4 smuggling as part of our Asset Forfeiture Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 8 President. On behalf of Senator Santiago, who 9 is, as I explained last week, out of the chamber 10 due to a family emergency and will not return 11 until next week, I would like to advise the 12 members that she will be voting no on this bill 13 and probably off of the bill would like to 14 explain why next week. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 16 for your observation. The record will certainly 17 note your remarks, Senator Paterson. 18 Secretary will read the last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect on the first day of 22 November. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6962 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: If it would be 3 permitted, Senator Leichter had a couple of 4 questions on this bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Certainly. 7 Secretary will withdraw the roll 8 call. Chair recognizes Senator Leichter on 9 Calendar Number 1018. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 11 Padavan, would you be so good as to yield 12 please? 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Padavan, do you yield? The Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, am I 17 correct in understanding that the criminal 18 offenses we're talking about are offenses under 19 federal law? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Alien smuggling 21 is a federal violation of law. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 23 be so good as to continue to yield? 6963 1 Is there a distinct and separate 2 state offense that we're talking about? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: We're 4 establishing an offense so that we can seize the 5 assets which are the basis of the financial 6 gain. As you know, we adopted in 1984 and '86 a 7 very comprehensive Asset Forfeiture Law dealing 8 with a whole range of criminal penalties from 9 drug sales to other commission of crimes. The 10 result of that allows district attorneys, either 11 during the course of a trial or in a separate 12 civil action, to cease the assets. We are now 13 establishing an identical prerogative in dealing 14 with those instruments that are used, planes, 15 boats, to smuggle aliens into this country, into 16 New York State, allowing our district attorneys 17 to seize those assets as parts of our forfeiture 18 law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, isn't 20 it a fact that the federal government also has 21 as seizure law, forfeiture law? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: And the 6964 1 offenses that you are talking about, or the acts 2 that you are now going to make state crimes are 3 already federal crimes and that federal 4 prosecutors can seize the assets, the very 5 assets that you are now authorizing state 6 prosecutors to seize; isn't that correct? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: It is correct 8 and it should be -- in fully responding to you, 9 we're after financial assets. I'd rather those 10 assets stay in New York State where the costs 11 associated with these illegal aliens exist 12 rather than go to Washington where those costs 13 are not being dealt with. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, do 15 you see this as an economic benefit to the State 16 of New York; and is that why you are passing 17 it? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Whenever we can 19 seize assets that are used in the commission of 20 a crime, and crimes can be federal or state - 21 they can be both -- we obviously accrue revenues 22 that can be used to enhance those 23 responsibilities that we have. 6965 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 2 on that theory should we make, to the extent we 3 can, all federal crimes state crimes so that we 4 can try to seize the assets rather than the 5 federal government? 6 (There was no response.) 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I mean on your 8 theory. Isn't that your theory? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: We're not 10 making this a federal crime. It already is. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no, I'm 12 saying let's make all federal crimes that now 13 exist state crimes so that our prosecutors can 14 go and seize the assets. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I wouldn't 16 accept that generalization, Senator. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: You would not. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would not. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: But you accept 20 in the field of immigration. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, and I 22 think you know why. We've spent considerable 23 amount of time discussing this issue on the 6966 1 floor. We have in the City of New York alone 2 almost half a million illegal aliens, many of 3 whom have been smuggled into this country. 4 The Golden Venture, obviously, 5 was one incident that was widely publicized, but 6 if you read documents and reports from State 7 Police, we have them being smuggled across the 8 border from Canada by boat, by plane or by any 9 other ways; and when they get here, the costs, a 10 variety of costs, are ones that the state and 11 the localities must absorb. It seems only 12 appropriate that if we are able to apprehend 13 these smugglers that the resources they use be 14 seized and the gains, the economic gains, inure 15 to the State of New York. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is it 17 your view that this is a good money-making 18 operation for the federal government - 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: For the federal 20 government? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- that out of 22 that, that trying to deal with the smuggling of 23 illegal immigrants that this is really a money 6967 1 making proposition for the federal government 2 because they can seize these -- like the rusty 3 old boat, the Golden Venture, which I think was 4 sold for scrap at that? I mean, are these the 5 valuable assets that you want us to grab rather 6 than the federal government? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think your 8 question is somewhat disingenuous, Senator. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think the 10 bill is disingenuous. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: The fact 12 remains that whatever the assets are, if it's an 13 airplane, a boat or that rusty old ship that you 14 referred to, if it arrives in New York and it's 15 smuggling in people in here, I want our 16 prosecutors to have the option of seizing those 17 assets. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 19 Padavan, if you'd be good enough to continue to 20 yield? 21 Isn't it a fact that in order to 22 seize these assets, now you've got a whole new 23 range of crimes that our prosecutors are going 6968 1 to have to prosecute that were not crimes 2 before? You are making this now a state crime, 3 and prosecutors are going to have to hire more 4 investigators. They're going to have to have 5 people at the airports, people in the ports. 6 They're going to have to have new not only 7 investigators but they're going to have 8 prosecutors to handle these cases. Isn't it a 9 fact that if we get into this, this is going 10 just to put a burden on the offices of the 11 prosecutors? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: First, Senator, 13 I think what you are losing sight of is 14 something that I keep repeating, and perhaps I'm 15 not saying it loud enough. 16 The problem of illegal 17 immigration is a tremendous cost to the city and 18 the state. Whenever we can deter that activity 19 by whatever means at our disposal, we obviously 20 diminish that cost; and if there would be a 21 hesitancy on the part of a smuggler to fly a 22 plane or take a boat into one of our waterways 23 because they are potentially going to lose that 6969 1 asset, that's a gain. 2 The fact -- I'm trying, Senator. 3 Just give me the time to do it. 4 The fact that there are certain 5 costs that a local district attorney would incur 6 in initiating such an action under this 7 provision, proposed provision, would be more 8 than offset by the benefits in terms of economic 9 gain, which, if you read the bill, in the very 10 first paragraph we make reference to. 11 So the net result if you analyze 12 the deterrent component of this legislation in 13 how that would reflect itself in reduced costs 14 for the cities and state in our case largely New 15 York City and if you look at the assets that 16 would inure to the benefit of the district 17 attorneys, I think there is a decided plus to 18 this issue. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me thank 23 my good friend, Senator Padavan, and just try to 6970 1 address the bill. I must say I find in many 2 respects this bill sort of mind boggling. 3 For years, I think every elected 4 official in this state has tried to get the 5 federal government to take the responsibility of 6 enforcing federal laws. Now, we have a bill 7 where Senator Padavan volunteers the resources 8 of the State of New York. We're going to go and 9 we're going to prosecute this smuggling of 10 illegal immigrants. We're going to take on the 11 costs, the taxpayers of the State of New York; 12 and in return for that, we get that small 13 pittance which is the seizure of certain assets 14 that are used. 15 I just ask you to think about the 16 resources that we would have to commit to this. 17 Now, Senator Padavan believes, and I guess most 18 of us agree with him that the federal government 19 is not doing an effective job of preventing 20 illegal immigration, stopping the smuggling of 21 people. I think we all understand the 22 difficulties that are involved and we may differ 23 on how much of a problem it is for our society 6971 1 and specifically our state, but it is clear 2 that, one, it is a federal responsibility, clear 3 that it involves an incredible amount of 4 resources, commitment of law enforcement 5 officials, and to in any way picture this as a 6 money making proposition is just totally wrong. 7 I don't know why we would 8 volunteer the State of New York to take over 9 these functions? And, mind you, while it may be 10 very nice to say, "Oh, well, we're going to grab 11 these planes and these boats and these cars," 12 but you can't do it unless you have all of the 13 police effort and law enforcement effort that is 14 going to capture people, prosecute the cases. 15 What are we going to do? Are we 16 going to compete with the federal government on 17 this? That makes absolutely no sense. The 18 answer for the State of New York insofar as 19 illegal immigration is a problem -- and I think 20 it is a problem to some extent. I may differ 21 with Senator Padavan about the extent of it, but 22 it is to get the federal government to take on 23 its responsibilities and commit more resources. 6972 1 The answer is not to say that New 2 York State is going to do it. I mean you take 3 our prosecutors -- a lot of this is obviously 4 going to be in the City of New York. You have 5 five of the busiest, most overworked prosecutors 6 offices in the whole country, and now you're 7 going to say to them, "Well, we want you to go 8 and get these assets," but you can't get the 9 assets unless you get the criminals and unless 10 you go into court against the criminals; and, 11 there, you'll be competing against the federal 12 government. 13 So what are we really trying to 14 achieve here? I think if you look at it, 15 irrespective if you agree with Senator Padavan 16 on what he's trying to do on illegal 17 immigration -- let's for the sake of this bill 18 agree with him 1,000 percent. He's right. 19 Illegal immigrants are terrible; they're a 20 burden, and all that. But this bill doesn't 21 make sense. 22 Just for a moment think of 23 whether you want your local prosecutors -- and 6973 1 some of you are on the borders and you know that 2 there is illegal immigration that goes through 3 your borders. Do you want your district 4 attorney involved in prosecuting these cases? 5 By God, if there is a problem the answer is the 6 federal government has got to do a better job 7 and for one moment to picture this or to portray 8 this, "Well, we're going to get money back which 9 is going to compensate New York State not only 10 for handling these cases but for the cost of 11 illegal immigration, totally wrong. 12 This is going to be a heavy 13 financial burden on the people of this state and 14 for us to go counter to what we've been trying 15 to do for years, which is to have the federal 16 government do its job, do it right, commit the 17 resources to it, and now say, "No, we'll do it 18 ourself," as I say I think it's mind boggling. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Padavan. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't want to 23 lengthen the debate, but just -- just to assuage 6974 1 some of the concerns Senator Leichter 2 expressed. 3 First, there is a discretionary 4 component. Senator Leichter, there is a 5 discretionary component here. You are aware of 6 the fact that the federal government has a heavy 7 responsibility as it relates to smuggling of 8 drugs. The federal government, as you know, has 9 statutes that allow them to seize assets for 10 drug smuggling. We have the very same. We have 11 the very same statute. We put it into effect in 12 1984. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Onorato. Excuse me, Senator Padavan. 15 Senator Onorato, why do you rise. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: When I'm 17 through, I will be glad to respond to you. 18 We have the very same type of 19 statute we adopted in 1984. As a matter of 20 fact, we patterned it very closely along the 21 lines of the Federal Assets Seizure Law. That 22 statute over the past decade has produced 23 hundreds of millions of dollars in assets going 6975 1 to local law enforcement agencies as well as to 2 other programs in this state. 3 So you have a perfect example 4 with a fact where the federal government and the 5 State of New York have parallel authority and 6 do, indeed, work together, I might add, in many, 7 many instances with regard to drug smuggling 8 into this country into places like New York 9 City. 10 This proposed statute would be 11 similar in nature, and it is at the discretion 12 of local prosecutor. If they chose to refer the 13 matter to the federal government if they became 14 aware of it first, they have that option to do 15 so. But I would suggest to you that if I were 16 the district attorney in Queens County and a 17 plane landed somewhere in my jurisdiction, plane 18 worth millions of dollars, smuggling in aliens, 19 I would be disposed to seize it if I had the 20 authority to do so, and you referred to that 21 ship, the Golden Venture. Even for scrap, there 22 are a couple of million dollars associated with 23 its disposal. 6976 1 So, Senator, this is not a 2 solution to all our illegal immigration 3 problems. It is just one more tool we're trying 4 to put in place. One final point. When illegal 5 aliens come in here as newspaper reports and 6 criminal justice reports make us aware of, all 7 kinds of illegal activities are taking place. 8 There's the very highly publicized issue of 9 illegal prostitution setting up brothels in the 10 City of New York with illegally smuggled in 11 women from Thailand. When the district 12 attorneys have to deal with that, the cost is 13 entirely borne by them and there is very little 14 -- there is none, nothing in the way of assets 15 that they could possibly achieve when they are 16 dealing with that issue. 17 So I just point those things out 18 to you for clarification. 19 Senator Onorato. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Onorato. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 23 Padavan, I'm just a little confused. I like the 6977 1 concept of the bill, but I'm just wondering what 2 jurisdiction will New York State have if we pass 3 this? Will the federal government if they see, 4 as you indicated, a large airplane worth 5 millions of dollars -- even though the district 6 attorney's office may have been the one to make 7 the arrest or the apprehension, now can the 8 federal government come in and say, "Well, no, 9 you can't handle that; I'll take care of this 10 because it's worthwhile me prosecuting it now 11 instead of you," and then somebody else comes in 12 over the border with a jalopy that's broken 13 down; we're going to have to pay the towing fees 14 in order to bring it in, will we prosecute that 15 guy? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Padavan to answer Senator Onorato's question. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: You just heard 19 me outline for Senator Leichter this area of 20 cooperation already exists as related to drug 21 smuggling, and decisions are made and a lot of 22 it is dictated by who makes the arrest, what law 23 enforcement agency is involved in the first 6978 1 instance as to who initiates seizure action and 2 sometimes a decision is made directly by the 3 district attorneys and the federal jurisdiction 4 in their area. 5 It's not a cut and dried -- there 6 is no cut and dried answer to your question, but 7 it is something that there is a great deal of 8 precedent in terms of resolving any conflict 9 that might arise as to who is going to seize the 10 asset. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 20 the results when tabulated. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar 1018 are Senators 23 Abate, Espada, Gonzalez, Leichter, Markowitz, 6979 1 Montgomery, Smith, Solomon and Waldon. Ayes 2 48. Nays 9. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Secretary will continue to call 6 the controversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1024, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 2612, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 10 increasing the penalties for sale of controlled 11 substances. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Hoblock, an explanation of Calendar Number 1024 15 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President. 17 This amends Section 220 of the Penal Law, in 18 relation to increasing the penalties for the 19 sale of controlled substances within public 20 housing projects, and it goes on to define a 21 public housing project as one in or on or within 22 any building structure, et cetera, contained 23 within the real property boundary line of a 6980 1 public housing project or within a thousand feet 2 thereof. It increases the penalties for the 3 sale of control substances within this area 4 somewhat like we did when increasing the penalty 5 for the sale of controlled substance on school 6 grounds. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 if the sponsor would yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Hoblock, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 13 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Sure. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 17 Hoblock, I do not object to the spirit of this 18 legislation and even the type of legislation in 19 the sense that we often will take the same crime 20 and increase the penalties if the crime has a 21 certain aspect to it that offends us as a 22 society; and so as we have already done where 23 drugs are sold near a playground, we have a 6981 1 situation where we wanted to increase the 2 penalties because other than the usual drug 3 sales, the fact that this is going on where a 4 number of young people are exposed is really an 5 affront against society and there is an 6 increased penalty. 7 When it comes to public housing 8 facilities, we have the same problem. There are 9 a lot of young people that can be exposed. But 10 my question to you is why public housing 11 facilities, which now increases by several fold 12 the incidence of this crime being applied 13 through your legislation? Why not just increase 14 the penalties for the charge altogether? 15 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Well, that's a 16 good point, Senator, and maybe that's the next 17 step. Right now, we're dealing with this as 18 public housing. This came as a request of 19 administrators of public housing in this part of 20 the state, particularly in my district, because 21 they are experiencing some unusual problems 22 based on the number of young people that reside 23 in these projects and the fact that there is 6982 1 such close quarters, and it seems to be a 2 vulnerable society that these administrators are 3 trying to protect. It seems that this is where 4 a lot of these drug dealers are preying and 5 taking advantage of the situation that exists; 6 and in order to protect these young people as 7 well as the residents, they feel that something 8 like this is necessary, but I agree with you. 9 Perhaps we just ought to expand it, and that 10 should be the next step. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 12 Senator Hoblock. Thank you very much. 13 On the bill, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson on the bill. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: At least in 17 New York City, many of the public housing 18 facilities and the use of this type of 19 legislation I think sends a message that is 20 confused. I wouldn't necessarily call it a bad 21 message, but we do have a situation where public 22 housing facilities are heavily populated with 23 African-American and Latino-American citizens; 6983 1 and because of that, what we would actually be 2 doing is prosecuting these cases, where the 3 occasion arises, through a change in our 4 legislation where we are almost applying the 5 legislation in some cases and applying the law 6 more severely in some cases, when everybody is 7 basically breaking the same law. 8 Senator Hoblock's point is 9 well-taken. He has drafted this legislation due 10 to complaints from public housing facilities, 11 and there is no doubt that substance abuse is 12 being promulgated on public housing by drug 13 dealers who are very aware of the fact that 14 there is a greater reaction among younger 15 people. 16 However, drugs are a vile and 17 vicious malady anywhere. They turn family 18 members against each other. They have 19 dismantled our society in many respects, and we 20 are starting to find that substance abuse which 21 was traditionally characterized as being in some 22 places yesterday are now all over today, and 23 we're finding that we have just as many drug 6984 1 problems in Scarsdale and Groves Point as in 2 Forest Hills as we have in the South Bronx and 3 Central Harlem. 4 I don't really object to the 5 nature of the legislation or even the spirit of 6 it. It's just that when we expand it beyond 7 playgrounds, we now are talking about housing 8 facilities where, as I would imagine that the 9 next step would be that the drugs will begin to 10 pervade any housing facility that anybody lives 11 in because substance abuse and the perpetuation 12 of drugs for profit in this country really knows 13 no boundary. 14 We have found in the past that 15 drugs leap ghetto walls. You can not contain 16 human misery, and I think that while this bill 17 would apply and be somewhat effective today, I 18 think the underlying problem is expanding and 19 will certainly affect all of us tomorrow. 20 The exception for schools is a 21 lot different because here you are specifically 22 targeting younger people since they do attend 23 school. I congratulate the sponsor for the 6985 1 work. I don't know if I totally agree with the 2 bill, but I wanted to rise to make these points 3 at this time. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. I want to just briefly respond 8 to this legislation, because I have so much 9 public housing in my district, and one of the 10 major problems and issues and concerns for 11 people who live in public housing is the illegal 12 activity related to drug sales and use. 13 So on one hand, I really commend 14 Senator Hoblock. I know what your intentions 15 are, and you certainly have support here in 16 terms of dealing with that issue. However, I 17 just want to point out, Senator Hoblock, that we 18 already have drug laws which are -- require, I 19 believe, a mandatory sentence after a certain 20 number of arrests and convictions, and this law 21 will only add to the problem that we're now 22 facing, I believe; and that is, overcrowding in 23 our prisons, pressure for building more prisons 6986 1 for which we don't have finances, and it does 2 not solve the problem, obviously. I mean we 3 have fed into this system over the last 15 or 20 4 years, and it hasn't really done anything. 5 Now, what tenants in housing 6 projects ask for in terms of relief on this 7 issue is: 8 One, strong management; that we 9 hold the housing authorities accountable for 10 managing those projects; and 11 Tenants are really requesting 12 that they be able to be involved in the 13 screening of new tenants, because they believe 14 that they have a right as residents in a similar 15 fashion that others of us who live in multiple 16 dwellings of various sorts participate to some 17 extent in the process of screening so that there 18 is some level, some standard involved in people 19 living together, and that that is enforced, that 20 a standard of living is enforced from within the 21 development, preferably by management, and 22 Three, that there be the 23 possibility of quickly evicting troublesome 6987 1 families. 2 Those three things people have 3 asked for over and over. They believe that it 4 would very greatly improve their quality of life 5 in those developments, and I certainly agree 6 with that, and I think if we did more along 7 those lines we would do much more to deal with 8 this issue head on with the cooperation of the 9 residents who live in the housing developments 10 as opposed to continuing with a course that has 11 not worked and that is going to cost us more 12 money. 13 So I'm voting against this, Mr. 14 President, but I wanted to be on record for 15 Senator Hoblock's sake, for him to understand 16 that I certainly agree with the intent, but I 17 just don't agree with the method that he has 18 chosen. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 21 recognizes Senator Mendez. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 23 I do rise also to congratulate Senator Hoblock 6988 1 for this bill. In fact, one of the big problems 2 that I do have in my district is constant 3 complaints of tenant associations and residents 4 from the various projects complaining about the 5 drug trafficking that occurs either at night or 6 in the day. It's a constant work to be calling 7 the police and having them observe what is 8 occurring over there, so I think that this bill 9 will help. 10 I want to mention, Mr. President, 11 that in New York City there is a law that 12 families who have a relative living in an 13 apartment and is convicted of selling drugs, the 14 families are evicted. It might sound very 15 unfair; but since that law has been in place, 16 many families made it their business to insure 17 that if they have a son or a daughter who is a 18 drug addict and sells drugs to maintain that 19 habit, they try to deal with that problem and 20 not to keep him in the apartment because they 21 know that they could lose their -- the roof over 22 their heads. 23 So I do support this legislation, 6989 1 and I think that it will help at least in my 2 district. It will help to keep controlling 3 especially those people who do not live in those 4 projects and they come from the outside to sell 5 the drug. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 8 recognizes Senator Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President. 11 Would the learned Senator from 12 the Albany area yield to a question or two? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Hoblock, would you yield? 15 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Hoblock yields. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, in 20 creating this legislation, was there any 21 motivation or inspiration to and for you 22 regarding projects which are in your district? 23 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I didn't hear 6990 1 the last part of that. 2 SENATOR WALDON: I'm sorry about 3 that. I'll speak louder. 4 In your creation of this proposed 5 legislation, were you motivated or inspired by 6 the goings on in projects within your district? 7 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Going on of 8 progress? 9 SENATOR WALDON: Projects. 10 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Oh, 11 "projects." That's correct, Senator. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Projects is 13 synonymous with public housing. 14 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. Yes. 15 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize. 16 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Various 17 administrators of public housing projects in 18 this area, not necessarily in my district did 19 make the request. 20 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 21 Mr. President? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Please 23 do, Senator. 6991 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you. 2 Senator, did you think perhaps of 3 having the legislation apply only to the housing 4 facilities in your district as opposed to - 5 meaning doing something that would apply only to 6 those housing facilities in your district 7 because that's where the problem is as you know 8 it as opposed to making it a statewide mandate? 9 SENATOR HOBLOCK: I think the 10 thought had crossed; but, no, it was decided we 11 should make it statewide given what I had heard 12 from others about other projects across the 13 state that were experiencing similar problems. 14 SENATOR WALDON: May I? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hoblock, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 continues to yield. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Hoblock, 22 are you aware of the number of people who reside 23 in New York City Housing Authority projects? 6992 1 SENATOR HOBLOCK: No, I'm not. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Hoblock, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR WALDON: May I assume 8 then because you said you are not aware of the 9 number, which is in excess of 660,000, you are 10 not aware of the ethnic makeup of the people who 11 reside in the projects in the City of New York. 12 SENATOR HOBLOCK: No, I'm not 13 aware of that either, except for what I 14 experience here locally. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President? 16 Thank you. 17 Senator, are you aware of the 18 criminal statistics related to the New York City 19 Housing Authority projects, especially those at 20 Hammel's Houses, Red Fern Houses, Baisley Park 21 Houses, 41st Street, others in the Rockaway 22 areas as well as South Jamaica houses, and a 23 whole host of New York City Housing Authority 6993 1 facilities which are in those areas which are 2 typically African-American, Caribbean-American 3 or Latino in the City of New York? 4 SENATOR HOBLOCK: No, I have not, 5 Senator Waldon. I quite frankly didn't think it 6 was relevant. I was trying to address an issue 7 here that dealt with a certain geographical 8 location, and it was for protection of all the 9 people, regardless who they were or what the 10 statistics were. It was a problem we were 11 trying to address. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 13 much, Senator. 14 Mr. President, if I may on the 15 bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Waldon on the bill. 18 SENATOR WALDON: I applaud what 19 you are trying to do, Senator Hoblock. I really 20 do, because there has been an increase in drug 21 activity to the detriment of all whose lives are 22 impacted in and around housing projects and in 23 and around the City of New York as I'm sure - 6994 1 as you have alluded to in your area and if not 2 in your area at least contiguous to people you 3 represent. 4 However, I think what will happen 5 with this is that it will single out those 6 people who are, for the most part, black and 7 Latino for punitive measures. 8 Most of the drug sales in the 9 Housing Authority Projects are made to people 10 who do not live in the projects; they don't look 11 like the people who live in those projects. 12 Clear example, South Jamaica houses, where one 13 day in a police raid there were over $500,000 14 found in one of the apartments which had been 15 sublet by the pusherman or pushermen, and this 16 money was stacked so high that it touched the 17 ceiling because the money was loose, and it was 18 thrown into the room. The police reported that 19 they recovered in excess of $500,000, but the 20 people who were purchasing the drugs from these 21 pushers in South Jamaica houses, all too often, 22 came from Connecticut, from Nassau and Suffolk 23 County, and even from as far away as New Jersey; 6995 1 and in that area, it's unusual to see Jaguars 2 and Mercedes, Lincolns and Chrysler LeBarons, 3 the convertible type cars. 4 The point I'm making is, as I 5 understand this proposal, in its application it 6 will not address the people who are actually the 7 buyers, the purchasers of those drugs. It will 8 only impact the people who live in those 9 projects. 10 Now, I'm not condoning their 11 behavior. Anybody who pushes drugs should be 12 put under the jail, not in jail, in my opinion; 13 but I think it is not broad enough. It does not 14 address the problem as it truly exists, and it 15 may be without intent something which will cause 16 a disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos 17 to be impacted by the criminal justice system 18 simply because when this law is available to the 19 police, people who are not necessarily dealing 20 in drugs who happen to be in the wrong place at 21 the wrong time, and my experience working in the 22 Housing Authority Police Department over the 23 years was that sometimes that did happen. 6996 1 So I encourage us not to support 2 it as you have prescribed it, but perhaps do 3 something which is broader in its scope and 4 which will impact everyone and certainly will 5 not single out those who are in my district who 6 are black and Latino for unnecessary punishment, 7 as I believe this will be. 8 And I thank you very much, Mr. 9 President. I thank you, Senator Hoblock. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 action shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 18 on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 withdraw the roll call. 21 Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think 23 Senator Montgomery really made a lot of sense 6997 1 and I hope people who heard her. She said she 2 represents a lot of public housing projects, and 3 I think she understands the problem. I used to, 4 before the most recent reapportionment, 5 represent a lot of public housing projects. 6 No question that there is a 7 particular problem with the use of drugs or the 8 sale of drugs in the public housing projects, 9 but what I want to address and what I see as 10 another problem with this bill is the whole 11 underlying theory of this bill that if you 12 increase penalties on the sale of drugs that 13 that's going to deal with the problem. 14 We have tried that now for over 15 20 years. I was here when the Rockefeller Laws 16 were passed, and they were all premised on 17 this: You increase the penalties, you are going 18 to get people to stop. 19 It hasn't worked. I mean at what 20 point do we admit failure? At what point do we 21 say, "Wait a second, we can't handle this just 22 through criminal laws; there has to be another 23 approach." 6998 1 I mean this is essentially a 2 public health problem, and it has to be treated, 3 but to just continue to increase penalties and 4 think that's going to deal with it when it 5 hasn't worked for 25 years, why is this going to 6 work? 7 But there is also a basic logical 8 fallacy in the bill. If, in fact, by increasing 9 penalties, you are now going to substantially 10 deter the sale of drugs in public housing 11 projects -- and that has to be the premise under 12 which you are proceeding, Senator Hoblock - 13 then is it your intent -- I'm sure it's your 14 intent, but is it your belief that you are going 15 to see a decline in the actual overall sale of 16 drug -- in the overall sale of drugs, or are you 17 just pushing this problem into other buildings, 18 into other parts of the communities? 19 I think this really goes to what 20 Senator Paterson was asking you. I assume - 21 I'm not going to ask you the question because I 22 assume you are not going to get up here and say 23 "Oh, no, the sale of drugs is going to continue 6999 1 but it's not going to be in the public housing 2 projects. It's going to be in an apartment 3 building, in a parking lot or other places." 4 Obviously, that is not your intent. You are not 5 trying to push it somewhere else. 6 What you are saying is this is 7 going to deter it overall. Well, if it's going 8 to deter it overall, then why limit this solely 9 to a public housing project? Then, as Senator 10 Paterson said, you'd want to apply this bill, 11 increase the penalties overall for the sale of 12 drugs, so logically the bill just doesn't make 13 sense. 14 But it also doesn't make sense 15 because we've seen that the Penal Law just isn't 16 sufficient to deal with the problem of drugs. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 Senator Montgomery? You want to 20 vote in the negative? Okay. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section and announce the 23 results when tabulated. 7000 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect on the first day of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 Those recorded in the negative 8 are Senators Abate, Espada, Leichter, 9 Montgomery, Paterson and Waldon. Ayes 51. Nays 10 6. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1026, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3065, an 15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the 16 Penal Law and the Family Court Act, in relation 17 to making persons 12 to 15 years of age eligible 18 for juvenile offender treatment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1026 21 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 23 Paterson. This bill adds burglary of a dwelling 7001 1 to the list of designated felony acts under the 2 Family Court Act when a burglary is committed by 3 a person between the ages of 12 and 15. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 7 President. Would Senator Larkin be willing to 8 yield for a question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: You're cheating. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: With the help 17 of Acting Majority Leader, I thought up some 18 questions, Senator Larkin. 19 Senator Larkin, if this bill were 20 to be enacted, this would be the only charge for 21 which a 12-year-old would be able to be charged 22 under the Penal Law, and I'm just trying to 23 ascertain how you would rationalize that being 7002 1 that there are other far more severe penalties 2 for which we don't charge 12-year-olds under the 3 penal system. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 5 Paterson, what we're doing here is we're 6 addressing an issue that is a problem across the 7 State of New York, and what we're doing is we're 8 saying we're giving the judge some discretion 9 which today he doesn't have anything, and he 10 can't punish those individuals, and what we're 11 doing is we're including them in a specific 12 area. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator 17 Larkin would continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Senator 7003 1 Larkin, under Penal Law 60-10, a burglary in the 2 second degree could theoretically carry a 3 penalties of up to seven years; whereas, if the 4 same 12-year-old were to be convicted of rape 5 under the youthful offender status, you would 6 now have a penalty that would only last three 7 years, conceivably, and that is just an 8 illustration of the point that I'm trying to 9 make to you, which is that this is the only 10 charge that we would ever be able to find a 11 12-year-old culpable under this legislation. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, under this 13 legislation, we're removing that -- what is now 14 commonly talked about as the Person In Need Of 15 Supervision and we put them into a Division For 16 Youth, where he can have more restrictive 17 observation, and this gives the Family Court 18 that latitude. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 if the Senator would yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7004 1 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 continues to yield. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Were there a 7 number of burglaries in the second degree that 8 were committed by 12-year-olds recently that 9 brings us to this point? Because what I'm 10 really asking you is what about murder in the 11 second degree, rape, armed robbery? In other 12 words, what about the other charges that just 13 are not covered under this legislation. We 14 don't have anything on the books right now to 15 cover 12-year-olds. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 17 Paterson, this bill talks about breaking into 18 the home of another unarmed, and that's what 19 we're talking about, and we're talking about an 20 issue here - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Do you have, 7005 1 Senator, any statistical data about 12-year-olds 2 being involved in these types of crimes? The 3 reason I'm wondering, and the reason I'm asking 4 the question because I'm aware that that may be 5 a little difficult to give the information as to 6 what the data may be, but the reason I'm asking 7 the question is what about the 12-year-old who 8 might break into someone's home and kill 9 someone? You don't have anything under this 10 legislation that covers that. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, in current 12 law that is already taken care of. What we're 13 talking about now is giving the judge some 14 discretion. We're talking about a 12-year-old 15 who commits a crime unarmed and breaks into 16 somebody else's home. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, so 18 therefore -- if - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7006 1 continues to yield, Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: So by 3 instituting this legislation we're going to put 4 this into the Criminal Law, am I not correct? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Going to the 6 Family Court. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Am I in error, 8 Senator? I thought the bill says it amends the 9 Criminal Procedure Law. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: It does. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: And the Penal 12 Law. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: It does. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. 15 What I want to ask you is where does the Penal 16 Law or the Criminal Procedure Law address 17 12-year-olds other than -- other than if this 18 bill were passed, except for juvenile offender 19 status. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: It doesn't. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: It doesn't. 22 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 23 yield? 7007 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 continues to yield. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, this 7 is my question. We now in a sort of piecemeal 8 way are addressing one offense; and without even 9 commenting on whether or not I think this is the 10 right thing to do, I'm just asking you why this 11 one offense and we've left a book full of 12 charges that we haven't addressed where 13 12-year-olds are concerned? 14 In other words, what I'm saying 15 is if we want to lower the age of culpability in 16 trying individuals as adults to 12, if we want 17 to, as a society, make that determination, you 18 and I might disagree as to whether or not we 19 should make it. You and I or might agree over 20 it, but don't you think that the law should be 21 consistent on the point of 12-year-olds versus 22 13-year-olds? 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 7008 1 Senator Paterson, this is being addressed under 2 the Family Court because it's a matter today 3 that is of a problem, and what we're doing is 4 giving the Court some added authority in dealing 5 with a problem that, without it, there's 6 nothing. They can't do anything to a 7 12-year-old under this category in Family 8 Court. They can't do anything with him. 9 But by putting it in this manner, 10 Family Court can address the issue. They can 11 put him into the Division for Youth. The 12 decision is left up to the Family Court under it 13 -- judge. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 17 President. I don't believe that the 12-year-old 18 is -- under our existing Penal Law and under our 19 existing Criminal Procedure Law, I don't believe 20 that the 12-year-old is separated on any 21 particular charge; whereas, the passage of this 22 bill would set the 12-year-old apart when it 23 comes to the charge of burglary in the second 7009 1 degree. Am I wrong, Senator Larkin, in making 2 that presumption? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think 4 we're beating around a little bush about here. 5 We're talking about addressing an issue for a 6 12-year-old who has gone into somebody's house, 7 even though unarmed, put the fear into the 8 family. We're saying that under the 9 designation, the individual can be designated so 10 he can be dealt with, he or she can be dealt 11 with, and it's strictly in the Family Court. 12 It's not in the Criminal Courts. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator 18 Larkin, and, again, we're just trying to clarify 19 what the bill says. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 7010 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Larkin, could I ask you just to take about two 3 steps back so that you're speaking into your 4 mike. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. Senator yields. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Would you like 10 me to go anywhere? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 12 talk about that later, Senator. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 14 Larkin, you are saying that under the juvenile 15 offender status that you could not prosecute 16 this defendant who happens to be 12 under the 17 Penal Law? Because if that's what you are 18 saying, I just didn't understand it because the 19 bill says it amends the Criminal Law and the 20 Criminal Procedure Law. That's where I'm 21 drawing my presumption, just so that you can 22 correct me. 23 So I assume from your last answer 7011 1 that you are not saying that. 2 SENATOR LARKIN: It amends the 3 Criminal Procedure Law specifically for 4 definition purposes. If you look on page 4 on 5 the bill, "designated felony act" on line 22 6 clarifies it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President 10 and to Senator Larkin. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 continues to yield. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Because I saw 18 the Juvenile Offender Law there, because I saw 19 it there, I assumed that we could prosecute the 20 12-year-old as if the 12-year-old were 13 under 21 that legislation. If you're telling me that we 22 can not, that clears up a great concern that I 23 have. 7012 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very 2 much. 3 (Laughter.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 7 on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson on the bill. At this point, Mr. 10 President, it seems to be ambiguous because the 11 use of the Juvenile Offender Law, in my opinion, 12 designates the 12-year-old as becoming a part of 13 the party, because it says 12-, 13-, 14- and 14 15-year-olds, and I don't know if I would have 15 really the objection if we were to set 16 12-year-olds in the set of individuals who are 17 culpable for this particular crime. 18 Since we don't have any other 19 crimes that 12-year-olds are culpable for, then 20 I would assume that there is an argument that 21 can be made, the argument that Senator Larkin is 22 making; which is, that the 12-year-old is set 23 aside because we don't have any other penal law 7013 1 statutes that apply to the 12-year-old in this 2 particular way, including rape and murder in the 3 second degree. 4 But because of the way the law is 5 written, it would seem to me that if we wanted 6 to leave the 12-year-old out and not prosecute 7 under the juvenile offender status, then we 8 actually just wouldn't have put the words 9 juvenile offender status in the law. 10 Senator Larkin assures me that 11 the references to the Criminal Procedure Law and 12 to the Penal Law are really for definitional 13 purposes only, and I accept that. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 15 recognizes Senator Abate. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Abate on the bill. 19 SENATOR ABATE: I understand the 20 spirit of this legislation; and when you look at 21 when the decisions were made -- I wasn't here; 22 you all were -- what juveniles could be 23 prosecuted as adults and you look at the types 7014 1 of crimes, and they are very serious heinous 2 crimes; and I understand why we would want to 3 include burglary of a dwelling as a serious 4 violent crime. 5 You talk to victims. It has as 6 tremendous an impact on them as robbery on the 7 street, because it effects them very 8 personally. They don't want to go back into 9 their homes. 10 The problem I have, though, with 11 the bill is that they are treating the burglar 12 of this home, this 12- and 13-year-old 13 differently than you are treating a 12- and 14 13-year-old that commits manslaughter, 15 kidnapping, arson, rape, sodomy, robbery. Why 16 are we treating more stringently the 12- and 17 13-year-old that commits burglaries in a home 18 than we are treating the rapist and the sodomist 19 and the murderer and the robber? It just 20 doesn't make sense; and I think if we are going 21 to have a rational Penal Law and CPL law, we 22 have to have something that makes sense. 23 I can support a bill that says 7015 1 14- and 15-year-olds who are charged with 2 burglaries of homes, of dwellings, and they can 3 be prosecuted as adults under the Juvenile 4 Offender Law, if that were the bill, it would 5 make sense because there is some consistency. 6 It's saying that burglaries of dwellings are 7 commensurate and compatible and are as serious 8 as the other laws on the statute. But we're 9 singling out burglars now who are 12- and 10 13-year-olds, and other than those people who 11 have been charged with murder can they be 12 prosecuted as juvenile offenders. All the other 13 serious offenders can only be treated as such 14 when they are 14 and 15 years old. 15 So I would ask the sponsor if he 16 would consider amending this bill to eliminate 17 the 12- and 13-year-old, make it consistent with 18 your other section and only include 14- and 19 15-year-olds. It would be consistent. It would 20 make sense, and it would be rational. 21 If that can't be done, I can not 22 support the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 7016 1 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 2 (There was no response.) 3 Hearing none, Secretary will read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 6 act shall take effect on the first day of 7 November. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 12 the results when tabulated. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar 1026 are Senators 15 Abate, Montgomery, Paterson, Smith, and Waldon. 16 Ayes 52. Nays 5. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1036, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2210, an 21 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 22 exempting from sales and use taxes receipts from 23 sales of photocopies. 7017 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Skelos, an explanation of Calendar Number 1036 4 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 6 Paterson, this bill would exempt photocopy 7 vending machines from Section 1115 of the Tax 8 Law in regard to collection of sales tax. 9 We'll wait for Senator Leichter, 10 if you wish. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have no 12 questions. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 15 Secretary will read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the first day of 19 December. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 7018 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1038, by Senator Leibell. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 8 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 9 on Calendar 1026, please? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection and hearing no objection, Senator 12 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 13 Calendar Number 1026. 14 Secretary will continue to call 15 the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1038, by 17 Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2561, an act to 18 amend the Tax Law, in relation to restoring the 19 former corporate tax procedure for refunding 20 overpayments of tax. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7019 1 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1042, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3233, an 10 act to amend the General Business Law, in 11 relation to limitations to certain contracts 12 involving social referral services. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 1042 16 has been asked for by the Acting Minority 17 Leader, Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside for the day at the request of the 21 sponsor. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1046, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 7020 1 5179, an act to amend Chapter 590 of the laws of 2 1993, amending the Public Authorities Law, 3 relating to the approval of the Public 4 Authorities Control Board. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, just 9 briefly on the bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Leichter on the bill. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: This is an 13 extension, I think, of a mistaken law that we 14 passed which is, as I understand it, and in a 15 form which gives UDC projects less of a scrutiny 16 by the Public Authorities Control Board. 17 Now, the reason the Public 18 Authorities Control Board was set up was because 19 UDC projects -- essentially UDC projects and UDC 20 financing had brought the state to a point where 21 we had a very serious problem about meeting our 22 obligations. These were the moral obligation 23 bonds. 7021 1 So we set up the Public 2 Authorities Board so that state authorities 3 would not go out and commit the state to 4 extensive obligations. I'm sure Senator Marchi, 5 who was here with me at the time, will remember 6 the crisis that we had in '75, and then we set 7 up the Public Authorities Board. 8 Now we're saying, well, for Urban 9 Development projects, we will have a lesser 10 scrutiny. I think that's a real mistake; and 11 just to assure you that I'm not being partisan, 12 I voted against that bill when it applied to the 13 administration of Governor Cuomo and Vince Tese 14 as the administrator -- or the chairman or 15 president of the Urban Development Corporation. 16 I think it is particularly a 17 mistake because the Urban Development 18 Corporation has gone into many projects 19 throughout the state. It has issued bonds. I 20 don't know the total amount of the bonds that it 21 has outstanding, but they're certainly in the 22 hundreds of millions of dollars, and most likely 23 they're over a billion dollars. We use the 7022 1 Urban Development Corporation to put out bonds 2 to buy state prisons, to buy highways, all sorts 3 of projects; and we really have an obligation to 4 see that the credit worthiness of the State of 5 New York is not adversely affected by its 6 activities. 7 We have the Public Authorities 8 Board. Why not have it apply as fully to the 9 obligations of the Urban Development Corporation 10 as to any other authority? I would hope very 11 much that we would not extend that special 12 exception that we gave the UDC. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 Excuse me. Senator Dollinger, do 16 you want to speak on the bill? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. I just 18 have a question about explanation. I do not 19 have a sponsor's memo attached to the bill. I'm 20 just trying to clarify Senator Leichter's 21 point. Is there perhaps someone from the Rules 22 Committee that could perhaps explain the bill? 23 Does this exclude UDC from the 7023 1 scope of the Public Authorities Control Board? 2 Senator Leichter, was that - 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: It limits it. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter, would you like to yield to Senator 6 Dollinger for an explanation of the bill? 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 8 President. I will try to answer, and I'm going 9 -- since there is no memo sponsor, and so on, 10 partly on memory and also having checked with 11 counsel. But there is, as I understand it, an 12 expedited review for an Urban Development 13 Corporation project. There is not the same 14 full, complete review as there is in the 15 instance where the MTA or some other authority 16 obligates the state by the issuance of bonds. 17 So, therefore, we're not getting the same sort 18 of monitoring, same sort of supervision that we 19 get in other instances where the credit 20 worthiness of the state is affected. Even 21 though it's not a full faith and credit bond, 22 nevertheless, it affects the credit of the 23 state; and I think all of us are very clear that 7024 1 when the Urban Development Corporation goes out 2 and issues bonds, that we have the -- that we 3 have the obligation to see that those bonds are 4 paid. 5 Since we have that obligation, we 6 ought to apply the full scrutiny of the Public 7 Authorities Board that we set up. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger, does that take care of your question? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does Senator 11 Volker have additional illumination on this 12 bill? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Volker, do you yield to a question from Senator 15 Dollinger? 16 The Senator yields. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Just, Senator 18 Dollinger, these are small projects, and it was 19 explained to us that this expedited process 20 because there are a series of projects that are 21 looked at, because these are small -- and I 22 believe, my recollection, it was between 200,000 23 and 500,000, whatever the small projects are. 7025 1 This doesn't mean that they don't 2 get the review of the Public Authorities Control 3 Board, which, as I assume you are aware, one 4 person, one of the members if they object to a 5 project, can stop the project; and this gets a 6 review. It's just that it doesn't get -- as 7 Senator Leichter said, it doesn't get the total 8 and full review; it gets the so-called expedited 9 review. 10 The reason is that because some 11 of these projects which are extremely extensive 12 projects, which I'm well aware of and I suspect 13 you are well aware of too -- in fact, you may 14 have -- the Rochester area may have one of those 15 projects that may have some extensive review, 16 let's put it that way. 17 This would not -- by the way, any 18 project that we were talking about would not be 19 eligible for expedited review because it would 20 be too big. The smaller projects -- I think 21 what they are trying to do is, frankly, set up 22 this expedited review -- or they were trying to, 23 so that they did -- they were able to have more 7026 1 time to do an even more extensive review of the 2 bigger projects and allow the Public Authorities 3 Control Board to get more time for review of the 4 bigger projects and -- because what can happen 5 is, if you bring in one of these projects, let's 6 say, with an expedited review and somebody on 7 the Public Authorities Control Board said, "I 8 want a full review," then they have to give a 9 full review. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So, again, 11 Mr. President, if Senator Volker can just 12 clarify this. In essence - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Volker, do you continue to yield? 15 Senator continues to yield. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This doesn't 17 change scope of authority of the Public 18 Authorities Control Board - 19 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- to approve 21 the projects? 22 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It simply 7027 1 creates an expedited track - 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- for 4 certain dollar amounts projects which would be 5 considered a smaller amounts project? 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly. In all 7 honesty, we're doing this in a series of areas 8 where on smaller projects or smaller type areas 9 where the intensity of the scrutiny is getting 10 so great -- and I'm sure you are aware, as 11 you're a lawyer as I am -- the projects now, the 12 paperwork on them has become unbelievable. I 13 mean you've got so many federal approvals and 14 state approvals and so forth, on the major 15 projects, in particular; and even on some of the 16 smaller projects, the approvals are enormous. 17 That's why I think they're looking for a more 18 expedited process on some of these smaller 19 projects. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 21 final question, through, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Volker, do you continue to yield? 7028 1 The Senator continues to yield. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does the 3 Public Authorities Control Board report to this 4 Legislature annually about the projects - 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Oh yeah. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- that it's 7 approved - 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Absolutely. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- both 10 projects on the bigger track, the extended 11 review and - 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Oh, sure. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- those that 14 would be on the expedited review? 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Public 16 Authorities Control Board, if I'm not mistaken, 17 reports to the Legislature -- I'm not sure if 18 it's an annual report or a semi-annual report, 19 but the Legislature is part of it. As I'm sure 20 you are aware, we are part of the Public 21 Authorities Control Board; and any time we want 22 to, we can ask for a clarification or changes or 23 whatever. 7029 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Mr. 6 President, I ask Senator Volker to yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Volker, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 9 The Senator yields. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: You are 11 certainly right that we're talking about smaller 12 projects. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Why are we 15 just exempting the UDC? How about smaller 16 projects of the Power Authority, of the MTA and 17 so on? Those are still subject to the full 18 review. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: But, Senator, 20 the UDC is the primary generator of projects 21 when you think about it. In fact, I don't know 22 if we would really want -- there aren't that 23 many small projects, for instance, that the 7030 1 Power Authority really does. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: How about the 3 MTA? 4 SENATOR VOLKER: The MTA, that's 5 a good question. You probably would be more 6 familiar with that than I would, but that's a 7 good point, and maybe that's something that the 8 new administration and this Legislature should 9 take a really good look at, is that we should 10 consider the possibility of expediting a lot of 11 these projects for a whole series of agencies, 12 and maybe it's something that can save us a good 13 deal of money and a good deal of time. 14 Senator, as I know you are aware, 15 the Public Authorities Control Board was set up 16 while you and I have been here with a specific 17 idea of trying to be sort of a backstop for the 18 numbers of projects that have flowed through 19 this place over the last 15 to 20 years, and it 20 has worked for the most part, I think, pretty 21 well; and I think what is being attempted to do 22 here, what we're extending here, is something 23 that was really set up to facilitate the 7031 1 paperwork and to sort of drive the system, 2 because so much of what we're doing is run 3 through the UDC. 4 I think it's one of the first 5 entities that we're looking at to do this kind 6 of an expedited system, but I think you are 7 absolutely right. I think it's something we 8 should look at for a whole series of agencies. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if I may 14 be just heard on the bill again. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter on the bill. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think 18 Senator Volker in his usual very generous way 19 has tried to find a rationale for exempting the 20 UDC. There is only one explanation. 21 The UDC happens to be an 22 extremely political agency as we know, and the 23 previous administration used that agency to try 7032 1 to do things that very often skirted on the edge 2 of what was permissible, and sometimes went over 3 the edge. 4 I suspect the current 5 administration will probably do the same thing. 6 But if Senator Volker is correct that, well, it 7 was done -- the reason we exempted the UDC was, 8 first of all, because, well, these were small 9 projects. There are small projects of the MTA, 10 the Power Authority, of other agencies, that we 11 didn't accept; and the MTA certainly has as many 12 small projects -- well, I shouldn't say as many 13 -- has a number of small projects. 14 The argument that, "Well, you 15 know the paperwork involved, and this is going 16 to give us more time to look at the bigger 17 projects," Senator, a lot of small projects add 18 up to a lot of money, and we are talking about 19 the credit worthiness of the state; and I, with 20 all due respect to you, and I realize you are 21 not the prime mover behind this bill, but I 22 think that's sort of sophistry, "Oh, we want to 23 see that we can concentrate on the big items." 7033 1 We ought to concentrate on any - 2 any public lending that obligates the State of 3 New York. I think we have that obligation, and 4 I would finally say that if it's a small project 5 then it's going to require less scrutiny than 6 the big projects by its very nature, so there is 7 absolutely no reason for this expedited 8 procedure. 9 This was done solely because this 10 was politically used by the Cuomo administration 11 as I'm sure it's going to be used politically by 12 the Pataki administration, and we as the 13 Legislature should not be doormats for the 14 executive in this respect and allow our 15 obligation to the people of the State of New 16 York to see that what is more sacred than 17 anything else, which is the credit of the State 18 of New York not be impaired in any respect. 19 You and I, it's true, Senator 20 Volker, we voted for the Public Authorities 21 Board. There are a few old gray-haired people 22 here who did, and we did it and at that time we 23 didn't say, "Well, but if it's less than 7034 1 500,000, we don't need a full review." We 2 thought it was important enough to make any, any 3 obligation that involves the credit of the State 4 of New York subject to that review, and we ought 5 to continue that practice and not accept this 6 very political agency. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Volker. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Very quickly. 11 Senator Leichter, just a question, and I won't 12 ask -- I was going to ask you the question, but 13 I will use a rhetorical question. 14 I guess the question I would ask 15 is when this expedited review was passed under a 16 Democratic governor, the previous governor, 17 Governor Cuomo, I wonder if you raised the same 18 objections. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I did. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Then I concede 21 to you, you have been absolutely consistent. I 22 only point out that this bill, it's been pointed 23 out to me, may have some difficulty because it 7035 1 was all right to do it under the previous 2 administration, but now that we've got a 3 Republican administration, there's a great deal 4 of concern in the Assembly that this might 5 potentially be used for political purposes. 6 I think -- Senator, I don't think 7 that the initial reason for this bill really did 8 have to do with political purposes, and I think 9 that's why this house and both houses passed 10 it. You can argue if you want to that UDC is a 11 political operation, but I would also argue with 12 you that a tremendous amount of good has come 13 out of the UDC. 14 In fact, there is a lot of 15 complaint about building our prisons with the 16 UDC. On the other hand, how would we build 17 them? We couldn't build them anywhere near as 18 efficiently and as rapidly as we have; and like 19 it or not, you can say we don't need prisons, 20 but obviously we do. 21 I think the point I'm just going 22 to make is that I don't think this was done for 23 political purposes, and I think it's something 7036 1 that just makes sense, and I think the problem 2 with some people in the other house is it only 3 makes sense when the right governor is on the 4 second floor of this Capitol. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 7 would simply note that this is the last bill on 8 the calendar. There are no other speakers other 9 than you two gentlemen. 10 Senator Leichter. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 12 President. I just want to respond to Senator 13 Volker. I mean he asked a rhetorical question, 14 but he didn't answer it, and the answer was that 15 I not only voted against this bill, I debated 16 against it, and I think I have been very 17 consistent in pointing out to this chamber that 18 we need much more monitoring and supervision of 19 the Urban Development Corporation, and I was 20 very critical of many of the things that the 21 Urban Development Corporation did during the 22 previous administration and acts that were done 23 by its president. 7037 1 So I'm perfectly consistent on 2 that, Senator. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 11 the results when tabulated. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. Nays 13 2. Senators Abate and Leichter recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Nozzolio. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 19 President. Is there any housekeeping at the 20 desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, we 22 do have some housekeeping, Senator Nozzolio. 23 Can we return to motions and resolutions? 7038 1 We will return to motions and 2 resolutions. 3 Chair recognizes Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 5 On behalf of Senator Levy, on page 35, I offer 6 the following amendments to Calendar 876 and ask 7 that it retain its place. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Amendments to Calendar 876 will be received and 10 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the 11 Third Reading Calendar. 12 Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 14 On behalf of Senator Maltese, on page 9, I offer 15 the following amendments to Calendar 279, Senate 16 Print 3081. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Amendments to Calendar Number 279 are received 19 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 20 the Third Reading Calendar. 21 Senator Present. 22 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President. 23 On page 33, on behalf of Senator Spano, I offer 7039 1 the following amendments to Calendar 861, Senate 2 Print 3975A, and ask that it retain its place. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Amendments to Calendar 871 are received and 5 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the 6 Third Reading Calendar. 7 Chair recognizes Senator Volker. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 9 On page 47, Calendar Number 1037, my bill, 10 Senate Print 2365, would you star that bill, 11 please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 13 Number 1037 will be starred at the request of 14 the sponsor. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Nozzolio, that completes the housekeeping for 17 the day. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. There being no further business, I 20 move we adjourn until Wednesday, May 31, at 21 10:00 a.m. sharp. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until 7040 1 tomorrow, Wednesday, May 31st, at 10:00 a.m. 2 Notice the time change, 10:00 a.m. sharp. 3 (Whereupon, at 4:58 p.m., Senate 4 adjourned.) 5 6 7 8