Wednesday, June 7, 1995

8177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 7, 1995 10 10:00 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN A. DEFRANCISCO, Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 8178 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Senate will come to order. All will please rise 4 and join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance to 5 the Flag. 6 (Whereupon, the Senate and those 7 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to 8 the Flag.) 9 In the absence of clergy, may we 10 please bow our heads in a moment of silence. 11 (Whereupon, there was a moment of 12 silence.) 13 Reading of the Journal. 14 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 15 Tuesday, June 6. The Senate met pursuant to 16 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 17 designation of the Temporary President. The 18 Journal of Monday, June 5th, was read and 19 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Hearing no objection, the Journal stands 22 approved as read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 8179 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Communications and reports from 6 state officers. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 Senator Marcellino. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 10 President. On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on 11 page number 40, I offer the following amendments 12 to Calendar Number 1170, Senate Print Number 13 5017, and ask that the bill retain its place on 14 the Third Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Amendments received and adopted. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 There is one substitution. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the 20 substitution. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 41, 22 Senator Tully moves to discharge from the 23 Committee on Energy, Assembly Bill Number 4065, 8180 1 and substitute it for the identical Third 2 Reading 1175. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Substitution ordered. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: We can take up 7 the calendar, noncontroversial. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: If 9 we could please stand at ease for a moment. 10 (Whereupon, the Senate was at 11 ease.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 15 At this time, if we could take up the calendar, 16 noncontroversial. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 20 Calendar Number 518, by Senator Volker, Senate 21 Print 1479, an act to amend the Civil Practice 22 Law and Rules, in relation to permitting the 23 joinder of consumer credit transaction. 8181 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 Secretary will read the last section, please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect on the first day of 5 January. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 The bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3735. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Lay the bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 588, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 397, an act 19 to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to 20 the priority of the lien of a reverse mortgage. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 Secretary will read the last section, please. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8182 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 The bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an 10 act to amend the - 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 Lay the bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 873, by Senator Levy. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Star that at the 17 request of the sponsor. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 The bill is starred at the request of the 20 sponsor. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 876, by Senator Levy. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill 8183 1 aside at the request of the sponsor. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: Is 3 that for the day? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 6 Lay the bill aside for the day. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 943, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5055B, an 9 act to amend the Tax Law and the Administrative 10 Code of the City of New York, in relation to 11 revising the schedule for filing withholding tax 12 returns. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Secretary will read the last section, please. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect January 1. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 The bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8184 1 994, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5019. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Lay the bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act 6 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 7 relation to permitting the discharge of a 8 firearm. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 Secretary will read the last section, please. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 The bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an 21 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 22 relation to special relief in matrimonial 23 actions. 8185 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Lay the bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1148, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 594, 6 an act authorizing the City of New York to 7 reconvey its interest in certain real property 8 acquired by in rem foreclosure. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 There is a home rule message at the desk. 11 Secretary will read the last 12 section, please. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 The bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1149, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1085A, an 23 act to amend the Administrative Code of the City 8186 1 of New York, in relation to the number of 2 positions designated as first and second grade 3 detectives. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 There is a home rule message at the desk. 6 Please read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37, nays 1. 13 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 The bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1150, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1414, an 18 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the 19 Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation Law, 20 in relation to the registration of snowmobiles. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 Secretary will read the last section, please. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 8187 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 The bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1151, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1701, an 10 act to amend Chapter 78 of the Laws of 1989, 11 amending the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside at 13 the request of the sponsor for the day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Lay the bill aside for the day at the request of 16 the sponsor. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1152, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2789, an 19 act restoring Emil G. Pavlik, Jr. to Tier II 20 membership with the New York State and local 21 employees retirement system. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Senator Paterson. 8188 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 2 President. First, may we lay that bill aside? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Please lay the bill aside. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Mr. 6 President, has Calendar Number 1040 involving 7 the discharge of a firearm within 500 feet of a 8 building, has that left the house yet? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 No, it has not. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 I move to reconsider the vote by which it passed 13 and then lay the bill aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 The Secretary will call the roll on 16 reconsideration. 17 Please read the title. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1040, by 19 Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act to amend 20 the Environmental Conservation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 Please call the roll for reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 8189 1 reconsideration.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 The bill is before the house. 5 Senator Paterson, do you want it 6 laid aside? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I do. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 9 Please lay the bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1154, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3125, an 12 act to allow Michael Acito to receive credit in 13 the New York State and local employees' 14 retirement system. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Lay the bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1156, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3725A, an 20 act to amend the General Business Law, in 21 relation to prize award schemes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Please read the last section. 8190 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 The bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1157, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3940, an 11 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 12 penalties for unauthorized disclosure of 13 information. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Please read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8191 1 The bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1158, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 3976, an 4 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 5 dismissal payments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Please read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 9 act shall take effect on the first day of 10 January. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 The bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1159, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4230, 19 an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and 20 Rules, in relation to the confidentiality of 21 certain privileged information. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Please read the last section. 8192 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 The bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1160, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4245, 11 an act authorizing the assessor of the county of 12 Nassau to accept an application for exemption. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Lay the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1161, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4294, 18 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 19 relation to establishing the town of Huntington 20 Industrial Development Agency. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Lay the bill aside. 8193 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1162, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4387, an 3 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 4 Nassau to accept an application for exemption 5 from real property taxes. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Lay the bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1163, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4514, an 11 act to amend Chapter 972 of the Laws of 1962, 12 relating to the Shelter Rock Public Library. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Lay the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1164, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4518, an 18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 19 preliminary and final revocation hearings. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Please read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 8194 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 6 The bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1165, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4553, an act 9 to amend the Court of Claims act. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Lay the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1166, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4908, an 15 act to amend - 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Lay the bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1167, by Senator Velella. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Lay the bill aside. 8195 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1168, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4991, an 3 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 4 relation to authorizing certain entities to make 5 purchases. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Please read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 The bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1169, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5000. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 Lay the bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1171, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5043, an 23 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 8196 1 Nassau to accept an application for exemption 2 from real property taxes. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Lay the bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1172, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an 8 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 9 accessible polling places. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Lay the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1173, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 5164. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 16 the day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Lay the bill aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1174, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5201, an 21 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 22 relation to loan insurance. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8197 1 Please read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 9 The bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1175, by Member of the Assembly DiNapoli, 12 substituted earlier today, Assembly Print 4065, 13 an act to amend the Public Service Law, in 14 relation to revenues earned by Water-Works 15 Corporation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Please read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Please call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8198 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 The bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1177, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2807, an 5 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 6 the reporting of school safety inspections. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Please read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect on the first day of 11 January. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 Please call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 The bill is passed. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 20 At this time, if we could return to reports of 21 standing committees, I believe there is a report 22 from the Judiciary Committee. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8199 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 3 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 4 following nominations: 5 Margaret Garvey of Pearl River as 6 Judge of Rockland County Family Court. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 I rise to move the nomination of 12 Margaret Garvey of Pearl River as Judge of the 13 Rockland Family Court, and would recognize for 14 purposes of seconding, if you would, Mr. 15 President, Senator Joseph Holland. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Holland. 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Thank you, 19 Senator Lack. Thank you, Mr. President. 20 It really is my pleasure this 21 morning to second the nomination of Margaret 22 Garvey. 23 Margaret has been active in 8200 1 Rockland County for many, many years. Margaret 2 is a very hard campaigner, very hard worker. 3 She and her husband Greg Carney are here. 4 Margaret was the first elected 5 Town Clerk in the county of Rockland. She will 6 be the first female Family Court Judge in the 7 county of Rockland. She is leading the way as a 8 female in the judiciary in Rockland County. 9 As I said, she's a very hard 10 worker. She knows town law. She knows county 11 law. She has been teaching at local colleges 12 and universities. She has been an advisor to 13 the Town Youth Court. She has worked for 14 everyone who has asked in the county of 15 Rockland. 16 I congratulate her for being our 17 new Family Court Judge in the county of 18 Rockland. I know it is one of the most 19 difficult jobs there is to do in the judiciary. 20 I know that she will do an excellent job. 21 It is my pleasure to second the 22 nomination of Margaret Garvey. 23 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 8201 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Lack. 3 SENATOR LACK: Yes. Mr. 4 President, Judge Garvey has been interviewed by 5 my staff and has appeared before the Judiciary 6 Committee. She has been moved by the 7 committee. She has been nominated by the 8 Governor. 9 I would at this time move the 10 nomination and ask for confirmation by the 11 Senate. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 The question is on the confirmation of Margaret 14 Garvey as Judge of the Rockland County Family 15 Court. 16 All those in favor, signify by 17 saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed, nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Margaret Garvey is hereby 22 confirmed as Judge of the Rockland County Family 23 Court. 8202 1 (Applause.) 2 Senator Lack. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 4 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 5 following nomination: Rose LaMendola of Amherst 6 as Judge of Erie County Supreme Court. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 Judge LaMendola, who is currently 12 on the County Court in Erie, has appeared before 13 the committee, has been interviewed by my staff, 14 has been nominated by the Governor. Her 15 credentials have been found sound, and I would 16 ask that you recognize Senator Volker for 17 purposes of seconding the nomination. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 Senator Volker. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 21 I'm very proud today to rise to second the 22 nomination of Rose LaMendola. 23 I have said it here on a number 8203 1 of occasions. Obviously, many of the people we 2 have confirmed from Erie County are people who, 3 over the years, I have known; but probably there 4 are few that I have known any better than Rose 5 LaMendola, who is not only a personal friend and 6 also her family but who I have campaigned with, 7 and I was saying in the Judiciary Committee that 8 I have never heard anyone say anything unkind 9 about Rose, except a couple of defense attorneys 10 who complained a little bit that Rose, who has a 11 reputation for being a tough but fair judge, 12 sent their clients to jail. Of course, they 13 then quickly admitted their clients probably 14 deserved to go to jail, anyways. 15 But, I think, as most of you 16 probably know, the County Court judges in 17 upstate New York are the judges who handle the 18 criminal cases and primarily -- although they 19 also handle civil cases but primarily criminal 20 cases, and she has been one of the stalwarts on 21 the court for many, many years and, in fact, is 22 a senior judge. 23 As I said before, I have 8204 1 campaigned with her and I have been with her on 2 many social events. She is an integral part of 3 the community in Western New York. I have 4 absolutely no question that she will make an 5 excellent Supreme Court judge, and I want to 6 compliment the Governor not only for Rose but 7 for the quality of the other people who also are 8 to be confirmed here today because I think all 9 of them are highly qualified, but I guess I 10 would say that I firmly believe that Rose 11 LaMendola probably is as good an appointment as 12 the Governor will make during this session. 13 I congratulate you, Rose, and I 14 wish you the very best of luck. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Rath. 17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I would like to add my 20 congratulations to Judge LaMendola. I have 21 known Rose for -- well, as long as I have been 22 involved in Erie County politics, which is 23 equally as long as Rose has been involved. Our 8205 1 paths have crossed hundreds and hundreds of 2 times. 3 I would echo what we heard 4 Senator Volker say and, of course, the Judiciary 5 Committee's recommendation. 6 But let me take this one step 7 farther. Rose's involvement in the community is 8 as long and as broad and as wide as anyone that 9 we have talked about here this year. But Rose 10 didn't stop her involvement in the community 11 when she went to the judiciary. Every 12 organization and group that she can participate 13 in, she does participate in. 14 She has her humanity, her wisdom, 15 and her long experience. 16 So, Rose, good luck. You will 17 not have forgotten the community that sent you 18 there. You will never forget all the people 19 that have been involved with you, and we are 20 delighted in Western New York to have you added 21 to the Supreme Court bench. 22 Congratulations, Rose. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8206 1 Senator Maziarz. 2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 Although I'm not personally 5 acquainted with Judge LaMendola, I have followed 6 the judiciary in Western New York. I am very 7 familiar with her career and her service on the 8 bench. I talked to some of the City Court 9 judges in Niagara County just last night, and 10 they have nothing but the highest regard for 11 Judge LaMendola, and I proudly rise in seconding 12 her nomination, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 The question is on - 15 Senator Dollinger. I'm sorry. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President, I don't know Judge LaMendola, and I 18 met her this morning with Senator Volker, and I 19 really went to just tell her I think it was a 20 marvelous thing that in 1975, which was a 21 difficult year for the Republican Party, a woman 22 had run for the County Court in Erie County and 23 had successfully won the seat. I thought that 8207 1 was a tremendous political thing to do; and, lo 2 and behold, she proceeded to tell me that one of 3 the reasons why she was successful in that race 4 was because she had also gotten the Democratic 5 nomination; and she, in succeeding years, when 6 she had run for the office again, had been 7 cross-endorsed or had obtained the Democratic 8 nomination. 9 One of the things we oftentimes 10 talk about in this chamber is bipartisan 11 justice. Judge LaMendola, who has a long career 12 in Erie County described by others who know her 13 better, but we will get bipartisan justice in 14 this nominee, and she said -- I think she said 15 in the Judiciary Committee this would be a way 16 to cap a career. I look at this as a way to 17 continue what has already been a very bright and 18 skillful judicial career. 19 Judge LaMendola, I wish you the 20 best, and I think you embody the best in our 21 bipartisan justice system. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 The question is on the confirmation of Rose 8208 1 LaMendola as Judge of the Erie County Supreme 2 Court. 3 All those in favor, signify by 4 saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Rose LaMendola is hereby 9 confirmed as Judge of the Erie County Supreme 10 Court. 11 Congratulations. 12 (Applause.) 13 The Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 15 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 16 following nomination: John McGuirk of 17 Cornwall-on-Hudson as Judge of the Orange County 18 Family Court. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I proudly rise to move the 8209 1 nomination of John McGuirk of Cornwall-on-Hudson 2 as Judge of the Orange County Family Court. 3 Judge McGuirk has also been 4 examined by staff of the committee. He has 5 appeared before the committee and has been found 6 more than satisfactory in all respects, and I 7 would yield to Senator Larkin, if you would, Mr. 8 President, with respect to seconding this 9 nomination. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 Senator Larkin. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 13 it's my privilege to rise and second the 14 nomination of John McGuirk for Family Court 15 Judge in Orange County. In a way, this will be 16 a homecoming for Judge McGuirk because he cut 17 his teeth on the bar in Orange County as law 18 secretary for the late Judge Paul Murphy, and 19 anyone who's ever known Paul Murphy in the 20 judicial system knows that he was a taskmaster 21 and he made you earn your stripes. 22 Judge McGuirk has been known in 23 our county, in his 18 years as a town judge, as 8210 1 an individual experienced, compassionate, 2 understanding, and with total knowledge of the 3 law. He's been involved in every aspect of our 4 community. 5 He's the father of five children, 6 very proud to have his daughter Mary here with 7 him today, who I have known since childhood. 8 John McGuirk has always been 9 there in the community. People seek him out in 10 his private practice because of his willingness 11 to understand and talk to people. 12 John, not being a lawyer, I stand 13 here in front of you saying that we have made a 14 choice, the screening committee, our committee 15 at home, to put someone on the bench that truly 16 understands because Family Court, as we know 17 today and as some of the people were talking 18 about in the screening, it's a tough committee. 19 It's a committee with a lot of problems. That 20 court isn't something that comes and goes. It 21 carries on, family troubles; and with society as 22 it is today, we need a judge on that court who 23 is truly totally committed. In John McGuirk, we 8211 1 have that individual. 2 I move the nomination. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I rise to 6 second the nomination of Judge McGuirk. I 7 haven't known Judge McGuirk very long, but I 8 knew him by reputation, and I know he has sat as 9 a town justice of Cornwall for 18 years, as 10 Senator Larkin says. 11 So I just wanted to wish you good 12 luck. I know the people of Orange County 13 respect you and you will do a great job on the 14 Family Court. 15 It's my privilege to second the 16 nomination. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 The question is on the confirmation of John 19 McGuirk as Judge of the Family Court in Orange 20 County. 21 All those in favor, signify by 22 saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 8212 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 John McGuirk is hereby confirmed 4 as Judge of the Orange County Family Court. 5 Congratulations. 6 (Applause.) 7 The Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 9 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 10 following nomination: Joseph N. Giamboi of the 11 Bronx as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx 12 County. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 I rise once again to move the 18 nomination of Joseph N. Giamboi of the Bronx as 19 Justice of the Supreme Court of Bronx County. 20 He also has been examined by 21 counsels and staff to the Senate Judiciary 22 Committee, has appeared before the Judiciary 23 Committee which has unanimously voted moving his 8213 1 nomination to the floor, and I would, please, 2 Mr. President, yield to Senator Velella to 3 second such nomination. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 I would like to welcome everyone 9 to Bronx Day in the Senate today. We are going 10 to be confirming, with the concurrence of the 11 body, two Supreme Court judges who are actual 12 residents of Bronx County and the two that we 13 have confirmed previously who were educated in 14 Bronx County. So, certainly, today is Bronx 15 Day; and, hopefully tomorrow we will be doing an 16 additional judge who couldn't make it up here 17 today for the confirmation and the hearing, who 18 will also be coming before us for a Supreme 19 Court nomination in Bronx County. 20 I'm particularly pleased to rise 21 and support the nomination of Joseph Giamboi, 22 who has been admitted to the bar since 1955. He 23 has tried cases in almost all of the major 8214 1 courts in the state. He has appeared before the 2 Appellate Division and the Court of Appeals. He 3 has tried federal cases in California and 4 throughout the country. 5 He is truly a shining star 6 amongst the practicing bar in Bronx County. He 7 has worked very closely with this Legislature 8 over the years, having served on committees with 9 a number of Senators. He has worked for me and 10 my staff, and we will be missing him as he 11 assumes his duties with the judiciary. 12 Certainly, I can say that Joe 13 Giamboi -- the highest compliment I can pay to 14 him is that he is a lawyer's lawyer. He is 15 someone that I have entrusted with the duties 16 and obligations of representing me in court, and 17 a number of other attorneys in Bronx County have 18 relied on his expertise. 19 I believe he will be a valuable 20 asset to the Court, and I proudly second the 21 nomination of Joseph N. Giamboi for Justice of 22 the Supreme Court. 23 I might add that in the gallery 8215 1 with him are his two sons, Joseph and Robert, 2 and his nephew Robert, who is also here today. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Mendez. 6 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President. 7 I rise to also second the nomination of Kenneth 8 Thompson from the Bronx as Justice - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 Excuse me, Senator. 11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Joe Giamboi. 12 Yes, but I -- excuse - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Yes? 15 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 16 rise to second the nomination of Judge Joseph 17 Giamboi. Soon we will be taking up the 18 nomination of Kenneth Thompson. 19 But, most of all, what I really 20 want to express is my admiration to Governor 21 Pataki for, in this instance, choosing five very 22 highly qualified individuals to serve on the 23 bench and the mixture of the people that he has 8216 1 selected. He has selected two women, an 2 African-American, an Italo-American, and I know 3 that he will eventually also choose a Puerto 4 Rican from the Bronx. 5 So, Mr. President, we Puerto 6 Ricans from the Bronx are very fortunate to 7 have, for the first time, an Assemblyman who has 8 become the County Leader. I am referring to 9 Assemblyman Ramirez, here with us, and he 10 believes in diversity. So we are most grateful 11 for the choices that Governor Pataki has 12 presented to us. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 The question is on the confirmation of Joseph N. 16 Giamboi as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx 17 County. 18 All those in favor, signify by 19 saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Joseph N. Giamboi is hereby 8217 1 confirmed as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx 2 County. 3 Congratulations. 4 (Applause.) 5 Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 7 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 8 following nomination: Kenneth L. Thompson of 9 the Bronx as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx 10 County. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Senator Lack. 13 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 I rise to move the nomination of 16 Kenneth L. Thompson of the Bronx as Justice of 17 the Supreme Court of Bronx County. 18 Judge Thompson has also been 19 examined by committee staff and counsel, has 20 appeared before the committee, and has been 21 unanimously recommended to the floor of the 22 Senate for confirmation, and, once again, since 23 it's Bronx Day here in the Senate, I yield to 8218 1 Senator Velella. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Velella. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, 5 Senator Lack. 6 Let me say that what Senator 7 Mendez said on the prior nomination certainly 8 holds true for this nomination and the 9 nomination that we will be, hopefully, seeing 10 tomorrow. It reflects the Governor's 11 outreaching to the community. It reflects his 12 desire not only to appoint qualified people but 13 do it in a bipartisan manner and to do it to 14 reflect the communities which are to be 15 represented in Bronx County. 16 We're fortunate in having three 17 people that will be coming before us that 18 basically represent the major populations of 19 Bronx County, an African-American, a Hispanic 20 American and an Italian-American, which 21 basically is the composition of the Bronx. 22 Let me say that the Governor is 23 to be complimented -- and I'm glad that Senator 8219 1 Mendez pointed that out -- to reflect the 2 bipartisan and the multi-ethnic complexities of 3 the Bronx. 4 In picking Judge Thompson, he has 5 chosen someone who is a sitting jurist. He is 6 highly respected in the court system. His 7 background has been consistently within the 8 court system. He worked as an opinion clerk, a 9 law secretary, a hearing officer in Bronx County 10 and has served as a designated Acting Supreme 11 Court Justice. He's been doing the job. He 12 will now, hopefully, with your concurrence, have 13 the title. 14 He has an excellent reputation 15 amongst the members of the bar. He is certainly 16 fair and certainly a tough judge, but you 17 couldn't ask for a better one in Bronx County. 18 He is joined here today by his 19 wife, a medical doctor, Brenda Thompson, who 20 will be speaking to everyone in the chamber 21 about managed care immediately after the 22 confirmation. 23 (Laughter.) 8220 1 It is, indeed, an honor to move 2 the nomination of Kenneth Thompson for Justice 3 of the Supreme Court. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Espada. 6 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President. 7 As has been noted, a judiciary that is truly 8 representative is a judiciary that can truly 9 dispense justice and live up to and perhaps 10 enhance the highest standards of our justice 11 system. 12 Kenneth L. Thompson certainly 13 will do that. He has the requisite temperament, 14 qualifications, and experience to carry forth 15 that challenge. 16 It is also very hopeful here, 17 from this Bronx Senator, that we can recruit his 18 beautiful wife, Brenda, to the medical field in 19 the Bronx, as well. 20 I must salute the Governor. I 21 salute Senator Velella and salute our County 22 Leader, Assemblyman Ramirez, for their exercise 23 in good judgment and their work in this effort 8221 1 as well. 2 Thank you very much. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. And as Senator Espada just 7 articulated, that the Governor and, certainly, 8 Senator Velella and Assemblyman Ramirez, all 9 those who have come together and lent their 10 names to support this really terrific candidate, 11 should congratulate themselves today. They have 12 selected a person of distinction, a person who 13 everywhere he has served he has flourished, and 14 it is always good to know that the individual 15 who accedes to great success based on a great 16 ability and also a plethora of achievements is a 17 decent human being, someone who has a great deal 18 of personal principle and applies it not only to 19 his profession but to his everyday life. That's 20 what people are looking for in judges. That's 21 what people are seeking in our judicial system, 22 and it is a reflection of the community at the 23 same time as a distinction among the -- by the 8222 1 individual who has arisen to this level. 2 And so, I'm very happy to see 3 Judge Thompson here, and his wife. I'm very 4 happy to be a part of seconding this nomination. 5 I just wonder, Senator Velella, 6 since it's Bronx Day, I guess we won't have any 7 Bronx cheers. 8 (Laughter.) 9 But I really think that this is 10 an excellent job that you and the committee have 11 done. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 The question is on the confirmation of Kenneth 14 L. Thompson as Justice of the Supreme Court, 15 Bronx County. 16 All those in favor, signify by 17 saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed, nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Kenneth L. Thompson is hereby 22 confirmed as Justice of the Supreme Court, Bronx 23 County. 8223 1 Congratulations. 2 (Applause.) 3 Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 5 At this time, if we could return to messages 6 from the Assembly. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly 10 returned Senate Bill Number 1553A, Assembly 11 Reprint 30004 entitled, "An act making 12 appropriations for the support of government and 13 to amend Chapter 50 of the Laws of 1995," 14 enacting the State Operations Budget, Aid to 15 Localities. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 19 move that the Senate not concur in said 20 amendments and move to reconsider the vote by 21 which this bill was passed. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 The Secretary will call the roll on 8224 1 reconsideration. 2 (The Secretary called the roll on 3 reconsideration.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 6 The bill is before the house. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe the 9 bill is restored to the place of Third Reading 10 Calendar, and, Mr. President, I now offer the 11 following amendments. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 The amendments are received and adopted. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 at this time, if we could take up the 17 controversial calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 21 Calendar Number 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate 22 Print 3735, an act to amend the General 23 Municipal Law, in relation to creating the town 8225 1 of Southampton Industrial Development Agency. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 There is a home rule message at the desk. 4 Explanation. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: May we lay 9 this aside for just a moment? Senator Leichter 10 is out of the chamber. He would like to ask a 11 few questions of Senator LaValle. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Certainly, Mr. 13 President, if Senator LaValle has no objection 14 at this time, but I would urge the members as 15 we're trying to work our way through the various 16 Rules Committee reports and complete this budget 17 that, as the bills are called up, if they could 18 be in the chamber so we could proceed in an 19 orderly fashion. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 The bill will be laid aside temporarily. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: I think the 23 Acting Majority Leader's point is well-taken. 8226 1 Those who would like to ask questions on bills, 2 the members who are moving the bills are here. 3 We would appreciate it if they would come to the 4 chamber and ask their questions. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an 9 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 10 relation to directing the Triborough Bridge and 11 Tunnel Authority to establish a system of one 12 directional toll collection. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 14 SENATOR MARCHI: Lay that bill 15 aside temporarily. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Lay that bill aside temporarily. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 994, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5019, an 20 act to amend the Real Property Actions and 21 Proceedings Law, in relation to landlord and 22 tenant proceedings. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8227 1 Lay the bill aside temporarily. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an 4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 5 relation to special relief in matrimonial 6 actions. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 this is the only bill that I will be making this 11 request. May we lay this bill aside for the 12 day? Senator Solomon is particularly interested 13 in this bill. He would like very much to 14 discuss it, and he will not be here today. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 16 will lay the bill aside with the following 17 understanding, Senator Paterson. I believe 18 Senator Solomon spoke with my counsel. I 19 believe my counsel may have addressed the 20 questions that he raised regarding this bill. I 21 will try to get confirmation of that and will 22 advise the Acting Minority Leader to that effect 23 if we have; and if we can accomplish that, I 8228 1 would like to be able to return to this bill if 2 we return to this calendar during the course of 3 the day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 All right. The bill will be laid aside 6 temporarily. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act 9 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 10 relation to permitting the discharge of a 11 firearm. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An 14 explanation has been requested. Lay the bill 15 aside temporarily. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1152, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2789, an 18 act restoring Emil G. Pavlik Jr. to Tier II 19 membership in the New York State and local 20 employees retirement system. 21 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Explanation requested. 8229 1 Senator Johnson. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 3 It's a little local bill asked for by the 4 village of Amityville, who consent to have this 5 bill introduced and to provide their mayor to 6 continue as a Tier II member. 7 As you know, there is a five-year 8 limitation. If you are out of the pension five 9 years, you can't go back into it. He was out 10 five years and, I believe, seven months. The 11 village is agreeable to this. They are going to 12 put in their share of the money. The mayor is 13 going to pay his share. It is quite a 14 noncontroversial measure in my mind, and the 15 bill should be passed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator 19 Johnson would yield for a question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Senator Johnson, will you yield? 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator 8230 1 Johnson, I would imagine it is noncontroversial, 2 but we did do that big bill that was supposed to 3 handle all of these so that we wouldn't have to 4 have this process where we're dealing with 5 individual retirement pieces one at a time 6 again. That was supposed to be in the past, and 7 all of them were supposed to go through this new 8 process. 9 Can you tell us why this 10 particular person did not qualify under the bill 11 that we passed that was supposed to handle all 12 of the bills of this nature? 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I think, 14 Senator, you and I know that chapter didn't work 15 out quite as we planned, and that process is 16 getting bogged down in various aspects. This is 17 one here which we didn't feel requires a hearing 18 process at all since it's agreeable, and part of 19 that chapter was to set up a process to evaluate 20 and decide on claims which may be contested. 21 There is no contesting by the municipality here; 22 therefore, it's appropriate to just proceed with 23 this bill. 8231 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And the 2 locality -- excuse me, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Stachowski. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Again 6 through you, I'm sorry. Senator, if you would 7 yield again? 8 The locality has no trouble 9 putting up the money to cover this particular 10 person's piece, is that how this one is going to 11 work? 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: The village has 13 requested this bill be passed at this time. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Read the last section. Oh, excuse me. 17 There is a home rule message at 18 the desk. 19 Please read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Call the roll. 8232 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 The bill is passed. 5 Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1154, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3125, an 8 act to allow Michael Acito to receive credit in 9 the New York State and local employees 10 retirement system. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An 13 explanation has been requested. 14 Senator Marchi. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President. 16 In 1988, the Court of Appeals decision of 17 Doctors Council versus New York City Employees 18 Retirement system held that part-time city 19 employees were eligible for membership in the 20 retirement system. Chapter 749 of the Laws of 21 1992 set forth the mechanism for employees with 22 present or part-time service to enter the 23 retirement system and/or receive credit for 8233 1 part-time service, but Chapter 749 did not, 2 however, correct the inequity that exists for 3 one -- one part-time employee who would have 4 entered the system at a higher tier if he had 5 been allowed entry as a part-timer. This 6 legislation rectifies this inequity. He is the 7 only one that's involved in this circumstance. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An 10 explanation has been given. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: That was a 12 very good explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Please read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 The bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8234 1 1160, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4245, 2 an act authorizing the assessor of the county of 3 Nassau to accept an application for the 4 exemption of specified real property owned by 5 the Chabad Lubavitch of Plainview, 6 Incorporated. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An 9 explanation has been requested. 10 Senator Marcellino. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 12 President. This bill would authorize the 13 assessor of the county of Nassau to accept an 14 application for exemption for real property 15 taxes pursuant to Section 420A of the Real 16 Property Tax Law for certain property owned by 17 the Chabad Lubavitch of Plainview. 18 Apparently this property was 19 purchased by the Chabad, which is a legitimate 20 not-for-profit organization residing in 21 Plainview and well-known for their community 22 activities and their community service, 23 subsequent to the date when this particular 8235 1 piece of property would have counted. It has 2 been subsequently, in 1995, granted property tax 3 exemption. 4 The county feels that they need 5 something from the state before they can go back 6 retroactively and give them the ability to file. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 Senator Stachowski. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator 12 Marcellino would yield for a couple of 13 questions? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Senator Marcellino, will you yield? 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is it a 18 common practice in Nassau County that 19 not-for-profits get retroactive tax credit - 20 relief? Because, you know, normally if you 21 hadn't filed in time -- or you filed -- whenever 22 you filed, that's when you get the tax relief; 23 and if you hadn't done it immediately, well, 8236 1 that's just the way it goes. 2 So is this a normal practice or 3 is this an exceptional piece? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Marcellino. 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know 7 if it's normal practice. I do know it's been 8 done in the past. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: One more 10 question. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Certainly. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: A couple of 13 years ago, we had to do what's referred to as 14 somewhat -- as a deficit spending bill for 15 Nassau County, and we did one for Suffolk 16 County, too. 17 Can you tell me if we're going to 18 continue to do these retroactive tax relief 19 pieces and if other not-for-profits see this and 20 want to start going back historically into some 21 period that maybe they didn't get covered for, 22 can we look forward to maybe doing another 23 deficit spending piece for Nassau County? 8237 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Marcellino. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I truly do 4 not think this one will do that, nor do I think 5 you will see a rush of other not-for-profits 6 entering into this field, Senator. 7 This organization with this 8 particular piece, I think, is a worthy 9 organization. They are well known in my 10 community and in my district and, I believe, 11 well deserve to have the opportunity to apply. 12 The county will have to make its decision after 13 that. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Please read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 The bill is passed. 8238 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1161, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4294, 3 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 4 relation to establishing the town of Huntington 5 Industrial Development Agency. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Marcellino. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This is my 10 lucky day, Senator. 11 Mr. President, this bill seeks to 12 amend the General Municipal Law by adding a new 13 section 907 (d), to establish the town of 14 Huntington, of Suffolk, Industrial Development 15 Agency in the county of Suffolk. It has been 16 introduced at the request of the Huntington Town 17 Board and represents an effort by the town to 18 provide for themselves effective economic 19 planning. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 if Senator Marcellino will yield for a couple of 8239 1 questions? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Marcellino, will you yield? 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: To Senator 5 Paterson? Any time. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, thank you, 7 thank you. The first one of them being, at 8 whose request has this bill been introduced, 9 Senator? We're just curious. 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: At whose 11 request? 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Town of 14 Huntington, Senator. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Did the town 16 of Huntington -- if the Senator will continue to 17 yield? 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Absolutely. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: -- previously 20 operate an IDA? 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't 22 believe so, Senator. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. 8240 1 Thank you very much, Senator. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 There's a home rule - 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 I'm sorry. Senator Stachowski. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the 9 Senator continue to yield? 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I don't know 12 what the situation is in your area but in my 13 area what happens when all these various towns 14 get their own individual IDAs, we then find 15 ourselves in a situation where companies will 16 then -- after their tax exempt status in one 17 particular industrial park, for example, 18 expires, they will then say, "I'm going to leave 19 the locality." You know, they say, "I'm sorry 20 all these jobs are going to go," and then a 21 different IDA will scramble and put together a 22 package to keep them in the area, to move them 23 over maybe one town or two towns. They'll get 8241 1 another eight to ten years of tax-free status, 2 and then the same process continues, and thus - 3 thus being that they're continually getting 4 large packages of aid from government agencies 5 and paying no taxes in return, and I'm not quite 6 sure if that's a trade-off for the number of 7 jobs. 8 Is that the case out your way? 9 And maybe we're just doing another IDA so that 10 Huntington is armed to compete with the other 11 towns in the area; or is this just a situation 12 that happens to occur in Erie County and all the 13 towns around in that area of Nassau County don't 14 have IDAs so that's not a problem? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Marcellino. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, the 18 towns that I represent, Senator, operate on very 19 high ethical and moral values, would never, 20 never engage in -- I'm being facetious. No, I 21 don't foresee that as a situation, Senator, but 22 I do recognize that could happen and certainly 23 should not happen. 8242 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: One last 2 question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Marcellino. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: For a few 6 years here, what was going on is that, if a town 7 had an IDA, well, that was all right, but we're 8 trying to limit the number of new IDAs just for 9 that reason, so that we wouldn't have all these 10 individual IDAs in the same general area 11 competing against each other to put together 12 better packages and maybe draw businesses from 13 each other rather than from outside; and so they 14 were trying to do like countywide, and if you 15 were -- and, obviously, in the case of a town, 16 if you already had it, they left it. 17 Do you think that this will be 18 the start of many more IDAs to follow not only 19 in the state but in your area in particular, or 20 is this like an individual, isolated piece that 21 Huntington will have, and you don't foresee a 22 whole lot of other towns, particularly maybe in 23 your own district, coming up with new IDA 8243 1 applications? 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator - 3 Senator, a lot of the towns within my district 4 already have their own IDAs, and I do see some 5 of the problems that you might be pointing out 6 to me, and I would be willing to sit down with 7 you and your staff. I offer this in all 8 sincerity, perhaps work out some kind of 9 legislation that might stop just that kind of 10 problem from occurring. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 There is a home rule message at the desk. 14 Please read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 The bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8244 1 1162, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4387, an 2 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 3 Nassau to accept an application for exemption 4 from real property taxes. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Tully. 8 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 This bill would authorize and 11 direct the county of Nassau to accept an 12 application for real property tax exemption on 13 property owned by Temple Beth Shalom. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 17 Senator Tully. 18 If Senator Tully would yield for 19 a question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Will you yield, Senator Tully? 22 SENATOR TULLY: I do, Mr. 23 President. 8245 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I am assuming, 2 and I just want to know whether or not I'm 3 right, Senator, that the Temple Beth Shalom must 4 have submitted their application past the 5 deadline, and it was by a short period of time 6 so it was regarded as ministerial, and we're 7 just putting it into legislation to act on it in 8 a legal fiction as it were before. Am I not 9 correct? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 Senator Tully. 12 SENATOR TULLY: That is correct, 13 Mr. President. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Then, Senator, 15 I don't really have a big problem doing that, 16 and I'm sure none of the members would, but my 17 question to you is, do you think that this might 18 open the door for what would, in a sense, be 19 just a noncompliance with the deadlines that are 20 often set for these types of procedures? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 Senator Tully? 23 SENATOR TULLY: No, I do not, Mr. 8246 1 President. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 if Senator Tully would continue to yield? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 5 Senator Tully. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, I will, Mr. 7 President. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, was 9 there a particular reason why the application 10 was late that compelled us to pass this 11 legislation? I mean I just want to make sure 12 that the temple is not in a set of one, and 13 there were other late applications and we're not 14 addressing them, as well. 15 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 16 President. This is the Rabbi's residence, and 17 it was an oversight. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, Mr. 19 President. I have made oversights on my 20 residence, and I think we can move the bill at 21 this time. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Please read the last section. 8247 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 The bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1163, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4514, an 11 act to amend Chapter 972 of the Laws of 1962, 12 relating to the Shelter Rock Public Library. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Tully. 17 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 18 President. This is a bill to amend Chapter 972 19 of the Laws of 1962, the Shelter Rock Public 20 Library Act, which would enable the members of 21 the Shelter Rock Public Library Board to make 22 interim appointments in the event a vacancy 23 occurs due to death or resignation. Under the 8248 1 current law, the Governor has the power to make 2 these appointments. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Please read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 The bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1165, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 4553, an act 15 to amend the Court of Claims Act, in relation to 16 the abolition of the requirement to file notices 17 of intention. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 Please read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Call the roll. 8249 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 The bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1166, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4908, an 7 act to authorize and direct the county of 8 Nassau, town of North Hempstead, village of 9 Westbury and Westbury Central School District, 10 to refund certain taxes. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 Senator Tully. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 This is a bill to reimburse the 17 Greater New York Corporation of Seventh Day 18 Adventists the portion of real property taxes 19 erroneously billed and paid to the taxing 20 authorities of the county of Nassau, town of 21 North Hempstead, village of Westbury, and the 22 Westbury Central School District. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8250 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 if Senator Tully would be willing to yield for a 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 6 Senator Tully, will you yield? 7 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: I am assuming 10 in this case that it's an overpayment. 11 SENATOR TULLY: That's correct, 12 Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: And so I guess 16 we're paying them back. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator 19 Tully would yield for one more question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Senator Tully, will you yield? 22 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 8251 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is this the 2 case if any tax-exempt group would pay taxes to 3 the school district? Why is it that they can't 4 just refund the money on their own? Why do we 5 have to pass the legislation? 6 SENATOR TULLY: That's the 7 requirement in the law, Mr. President. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Couldn't 9 we -- excuse me, one more question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 Senator Tully, will you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, 15 don't you think it would be advisable that we 16 look into maybe drafting legislation that would 17 handle this so that school districts would be 18 able on their own to just refund money that was 19 accidentally paid or by mistake paid by these 20 groups that are tax-exempt so that we wouldn't 21 have to come back? Say that this is isolated 22 this year, but other years we would keep coming 23 back with situations like this where we're going 8252 1 to have to pass a bill just to get a refund for 2 a legitimate group that deserves the refund. 3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 My colleague from Erie County is 6 not only an excellent ball player but he's also 7 a very astute individual when it comes to 8 understanding law and proposals. I think that's 9 a very cogent suggestion and one that should be 10 looked into. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Please read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 16 Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 The bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1167, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4969, an 23 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 8253 1 eliminating certain criteria for multi-tiering 2 program. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Lay the bill aside temporarily. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1169, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 5000, an 7 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 8 relation to the Saratoga County Water Authority. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 10 There is a home rule message at the desk. 11 Please read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 The bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1171, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5043, an 22 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 23 Nassau to accept an application for exemption 8254 1 from real property taxes. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Tully. 5 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. This is a bill to authorize and 7 direct the county of Nassau to accept an 8 application for real property tax exemption from 9 the tax-exempt organization, the Congregational 10 Church of Manhasset. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 14 President. If I might ask Senator Tully a 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Tully, will you yield? 18 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 19 President. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully, 21 I assume that this is another late application 22 that again is being regarded as ministerial, and 23 this is the reason that we are now regarding 8255 1 this as if it happened before. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 3 Senator Tully. 4 SENATOR TULLY: That is an 5 accurate assumption, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 if Senator Tully would continue to yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 11 Will you continue to yield, Senator Tully? 12 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Tully, 15 again, I just want to ask you -- before, you 16 said you didn't think that it was significantly 17 late or you didn't think it would affect anyone 18 else. What do you think the total effect is of 19 using the legislative process to correct these 20 circumstances rather than having some local 21 agency do it? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Senator Tully. 8256 1 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 2 the thrust of that question is the same as the 3 question that was asked previously by Senator 4 Stachowski. I think the concept of probably 5 avoiding these individual applications and 6 having one collective method of handling it in 7 the Legislature would be a very, very fine 8 thing. If, in the alternative, there was a 9 method of doing it on a local basis and the 10 state law was changed to allow that, I think 11 that also would be beneficial, because I do 12 sincerely believe that there are many more 13 significant things that we in the Legislature 14 have to do that we can accomplish, like the 15 budget. We wouldn't be so many days late if 16 there were less situations of this sort, and I 17 think if the intention of Senator Paterson is to 18 suggest some type of legislation that would 19 preclude these applications in the future, I 20 think he and Senator Stachowski should be 21 commended, and I hope the cooperative spirit on 22 both sides of this house would effectuate 23 something in that nature. 8257 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, thank 4 you, Senator Tully, for that fine explanation, 5 and, on the bill, Senator Stachowski and I are 6 collaborating on that legislation right now, 7 that we will be bringing it to committee very 8 shortly, and we'd like to thank the Senator who 9 represents the villages of Westbury and 10 Manhasset and the town of North Hempstead and 11 all of the epicenters of the nature of these 12 bills. They are well represented. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 14 Please read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 The bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 8258 1 1172, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an 2 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 3 accessible polling places. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 5 temporarily. 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Lay the bill aside temporarily. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Could you call 11 up Senator LaValle's bill, Calendar Number 563. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 563, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3735, an 16 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 17 relation to creating the town of Southampton 18 Industrial Development Agency. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 20 There is a home rule message at the desk. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: An 23 explanation has been requested. 8259 1 Senator LaValle. 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, Mr. 3 President. This legislation simply allows the 4 town of Southampton to establish a Southampton 5 Industrial Development Agency, and the former 6 supervisor of the town of Southampton, Fred 7 Thiele, is now a member of the Assembly; and, 8 certainly, as the supervisor, it was almost like 9 a dream to come to Albany and be able to file as 10 his first bill the creation of an Industrial 11 Development Agency for the town that he was the 12 supervisor of; and, certainly, Southampton Town 13 has learned that by being proactive, as they 14 have by attracting not only once but twice, at 15 Shinnecock Hills, the U.S. Open, that they could 16 use the tools that so many towns have done to 17 attract industry to their town. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. If Senator LaValle would yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 23 LaValle, you said that the town of Southampton 8260 1 was being proactive in this. I guess this is 2 the second time, because there had previously 3 been an Industrial Development Agency; is that 4 not correct? 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: What was the 7 reason for the extinction of the first attempt 8 to establish an IDA? 9 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, many 10 times a town, for whatever reason, lets the 11 agency lapse only to find that it must come back 12 to the Legislature to recreate and seek beyond 13 the period of time that we create the Industrial 14 Development Agency to go get a second crack at 15 the apple. Many of the towns simply do not 16 realize that their time has run out. It's 17 almost that simple. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator, 19 if the IDA is functioning, it wouldn't go out of 20 existence, and what you're saying is that the 21 town not having a need at that point let it 22 lapse. 23 Would there be a more effective 8261 1 way to establish some congruency where the 2 agency continues to be existing in name so that 3 when it wants to be regenerated we don't have to 4 come back to the Legislature and do another 5 bill? 6 SENATOR LAVALLE: I don't know, 7 Senator. All I know is that the bill before us 8 is a local bill for a town that is seeking the 9 recreation of its Industrial Development Agency 10 and, as I've said, there are a variety of 11 reasons why a town may feel it needs the 12 Industrial Development Agency. It might not 13 work out and in a period of time it lapses, and 14 then they come back to us for additional 15 authorization. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 17 Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 19 Senator LaValle. 20 Mr. President, on the bill. We 21 have no problem with the local town, the local 22 government setting its policy. In fact, we have 23 a lot of local bills from this conference that 8262 1 we're hoping we will move today. We're just 2 trying to point out, as Senator Tully did, that 3 at some point toward the end of the session and 4 particularly in this unfortunate circumstance 5 where we are in the midst of a budget process, 6 that there might be a better way, that this, in 7 some respects, obfuscates the process. 8 But if that is what actually 9 occurred and the town allowed the Industrial 10 Development Agency to lapse, then we certainly 11 would like to help the town of Southampton. As 12 Senator LaValle pointed out, the U.S. Open has 13 actually been brought to that area twice at 14 Shinnecock, and we certainly wish them well. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 18 Senator Stachowski. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator 20 LaValle would yield to a question or two? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 22 Senator LaValle, will you yield? 23 SENATOR LAVALLE: Sure. 8263 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, 2 doesn't the county that this town finds itself 3 located in, don't they have an IDA? 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, that's 5 correct. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And if 7 Senator would continue to yield. Wouldn't that 8 IDA be responsible for doing projects in that 9 particular town at the town's request? 10 SENATOR LAVALLE: It could. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: So could we 12 assume, then, that the reason the town is asking 13 for the reestablishment of its IDA is because 14 maybe they feel they are not getting fair 15 treatment in the projects they're trying to 16 attract by that county's IDA currently? 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: No, Senator. 18 What happens, many times, is that the counties 19 use their IDA for larger projects. I don't know 20 what the threshold amount is for projects that 21 the Suffolk County IDA would consider, and so 22 many of the towns choose to have their own IDAs 23 because they can move more quickly and they 8264 1 don't have to meet a threshold level; and the 2 project may be a $100,000, $200,000 project, 3 where Suffolk County may have a higher threshold 4 of 500,000, 600,000, a million dollars, so it is 5 important for the towns to have their own 6 Industrial Development Agencies. 7 And, quite honestly, one of the 8 things I know so many of us do when we campaign 9 and talk about mechanisms that New York State 10 has established to create industry and jobs is 11 the various tools and mechanisms, whether it's 12 the JDA, whether it's a county IDA or the local 13 town IDA, so we allow for a whole potpourri of 14 options that the locality can use in dealing 15 with businesses. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 17 President, if he would continue to yield. One 18 last question. 19 Can we assume then that the town 20 is going to use their IDA for smaller projects 21 and still continue to use the county IDA for 22 maybe somewhat larger projects? 23 SENATOR LAVALLE: I would guess 8265 1 that that's true, Senator Stachowski, and, as I 2 had indicated, Assemblyman Thiele, who was the 3 Supervisor of the town of Southampton, actually 4 brought this bill to me to sponsor, and I would 5 think that that is exactly the case that will 6 allow them to have smaller projects and still 7 use the county for the larger projects that come 8 to the town. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 10 On the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Senator Stachowski, on the bill. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I'd like to 14 thank Senator LaValle for his patience with the 15 questions and his fine answers, and it makes 16 perfect sense to me. 17 I was really asking the questions 18 to try to figure out why this particular local 19 bill and many of the others that we've done 20 today and a couple days before are so much more, 21 maybe, let's say, relevant and more important to 22 get out than any of the bills that were put in 23 by the people on this side of the aisle, because 8266 1 I noticed last night -- we had a rather 2 extensive Rules meeting, and we had one 3 Democratic bill and numerous Republican local 4 bills, and we're getting near the end of session 5 and I know that -- at least, to my knowledge, 6 there is a Rules Committee scheduled for this 7 afternoon or in a short time with, again, one 8 Democratic bill and numerous Republican local 9 bills. 10 And I'm just trying to establish 11 if there, in fact, is a rationale, a reason why 12 these bills are more important or why the 13 Democratic bills aren't being moved, and we're 14 trying to be as cooperative as possible in 15 asking a few questions and, so far, we haven't 16 had a problem with this, but I would add, if in 17 the very near future we don't see some movement 18 with some Democratic bills, seeing as we are 19 running out of time, that the process probably 20 could slow down even more, that there would be 21 more questions, that there might be some 22 difficulty with the bills. They would probably 23 require slow roll calls, and we don't want to 8267 1 see the process bog down like that. 2 We know that everybody is anxious 3 to have the calendar move as fast as possible, 4 and that we would be getting out bills as fast 5 as possible and that we would be able to close 6 down and get out all the bills necessary before 7 the end of session. 8 To my knowledge, the Majority 9 Leader is planning on following the calendar as 10 far as the end of session goes, and we wouldn't 11 want to be the reason for that goal not being 12 met by the house, or that people that have 13 various interests in various bills not have 14 their bill being dealt with because of our 15 anxiousness to reach that departure date on that 16 particular calendar as scheduled by the Majority 17 Leader. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 19 Read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 23 Call the roll. 8268 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 4 The bill is passed. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 7 Senator Saland has requested that Calendar 1111 8 be laid aside for the day at the request of the 9 Minority, and that the bill will be debated 10 tomorrow. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 12 Calendar 1111 will be laid aside for the day. 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. At this 15 time, if we can return to motions and 16 resolutions, I believe there is a resolution, 17 1497, which we adopted yesterday. If we could 18 have the resolution read in its entirety and 19 then recognize Senator Tully. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 21 Secretary will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully, 23 Legislative Resolution honoring the 1995 8269 1 Regional Nurses of Distinction upon the occasion 2 of the New York State Legislature's Nurse of 3 Distinction Day, June 7, 1995. 4 Whereas, The nurses of New York 5 have by dedicating their lives to the health and 6 dignity of their fellow New Yorkers contributed 7 significantly to the well-being of the citizens 8 of our state; and 9 Whereas, The New York State 10 Legislature developed the Nurse of Distinction 11 Award Program to pay tribute to New York State's 12 registered professional nurses for their 13 steadfast commitment and support of the health 14 and betterment of all New Yorkers; and 15 Whereas, The outstanding 16 achievements of thousands of our state's 17 registered professional nurses have been 18 acknowledged through the 1995 Nurse of 19 Distinction Award Program and 364 distinctive 20 nurses were nominated for the Award; and 21 Whereas, Eight Regional Nurses of 22 Distinction were selected by nursing peers from 23 throughout the state for their professional 8270 1 excellence and unequivocal dedication in support 2 of the health and betterment of their fellow New 3 Yorkers; now, therefore, be it 4 Resolved, That this Legislative 5 Body pause to express its deep respect and 6 appreciation to all of New York State's 7 distinguished nurses and to recognize the unique 8 contributions made by the eight 1995 Regional 9 Nurses of Distinction: Audrey Norris-Clancy, 10 Avis Rent A Car, Garden City; Karen Haghenbeck, 11 Montefiore Medical Center, Bronx; Kathleen L. 12 Capitulo, Long Island Jewish Medical Center, New 13 Hyde Park; Nancy Lichak, Good Samaritan 14 Hospital, Suffern; Elaine Massaro, Albany 15 Memorial Hospital, Albany; M. Suzanne Lavin, 16 Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center, Utica; Elaine 17 D. Caso, Arnot Ogden Medical Center, Elmira; and 18 Sharon S. Dittmar, University of Buffalo School 19 of Nursing, Buffalo; and be it further 20 Resolved, That this Legislative 21 Body pause in its deliberations to encourage 22 statewide recognition of those valued nursing 23 professionals serving our communities; and be it 8271 1 further 2 Resolved, That copies of this 3 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 4 to the eight 1995 New York State Legislature's 5 Regional Nurses of Distinction with our pride 6 and gratitude. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Tully. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. Initially, I would ask that this 11 resolution be open for sponsorship to all of my 12 colleagues unless otherwise indicated. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 14 Without objection. 15 SENATOR TULLY: I'm pleased to 16 have this opportunity to introduce to you eight 17 special New Yorkers, eight nurses representing 18 the New York Legislature's Nurse of Distinction 19 Award Program. 20 The Nurse of Distinction Award 21 Program was developed by the Legislature in 1988 22 to honor the thousands of registered 23 professional nurses in New York State and to 8272 1 recognize the critical and important work that 2 they do. 3 I'm pleased to serve as 4 legislative coordinator of the Nurse of 5 Distinction and pleased also that 364 health 6 entities chose to join with the Legislature this 7 year to honor the members of their staffs by 8 nominating nurses for this recognition. 9 Nurses in our state are making 10 remarkable contributions and achieving 11 extraordinary results. Over the seven years of 12 the Nurse of Distinction Award Program, we have 13 honored more than 2,500 registered nurses 14 representing a variety of nursing functions and 15 a vast array of health-related facilities. 16 As we have come to know these 17 nurses of distinction, it has become apparent 18 that New York State is blessed with a vigorously 19 motivated, highly creative source of 20 compassionate nursing professionals. 21 Health care centers in our world 22 are world-renowned -- in our state, are world 23 renowned for their expertise, and our nurses 8273 1 have more than lived up to the challenge to 2 provide the patient services, the technical 3 specialties and the educational network in 4 support of them. 5 Concurrently, millions of school 6 children, clinical outpatients, community and 7 state facility clients, among others, are the 8 beneficiaries of energized, educated and 9 talented New York State nurses. 10 On the Senate calendar today is 11 the resolution that was just read acknowledging 12 the 364 nurses from throughout our state who are 13 being honored as this year's Nurses of 14 Distinction. 15 Eight have been chosen as 16 Regional Nurses of Distinction, and I would now 17 like to introduce them to you in recognition of 18 their own considerable accomplishments and as 19 representatives of our outstanding New York 20 State Professional Nurses: 21 From Long Island, an occupational 22 health nurse and manager of the Employees Health 23 Unit, Avis Rent-A-Car, Garden City, Audrey 8274 1 Norris-Clancy. 2 (Applause.) 3 Thank you, Audrey. 4 From Greater New York Region 1, 5 which includes Richmond, New York, and Bronx 6 Counties, a critical care nurse with the 7 Educational Services Division of Montefiore 8 Medical Center in the Bronx, Karen Haghenbeck. 9 (Applause.) 10 From the NorMet Region, 11 cardiology case manager in the Coronary Care 12 Unit at the Good Samaritan Hospital Regional 13 Medical Center in Suffern, Nancy Lichak. 14 (Applause.) 15 From the Northeastern Region, 16 manager of the Diabetes Treatment Center and 17 Telemetry Unit at Albany Memorial Hospital in 18 Albany, Elaine Massaro. 19 (Applause.) 20 From the Central Region, a 21 community mental health nurse who serves as the 22 facilitator of the mobile geriatric team at 23 Mohawk Valley Psychiatric Center in Utica, 8275 1 Suzanne Lavin. 2 (Applause.) 3 From the Finger Lakes Region, an 4 instructor in medical-surgical nursing at Arnot 5 Ogden Medical Center School of Nursing in 6 Elmira, Elaine Caso. 7 (Applause.) 8 From the Western Region, 9 Associate Professor of Rehabilitation Nursing at 10 the University of Buffalo School of Nursing, in 11 Buffalo, Sharon Dittmar. 12 (Applause.) 13 Our New York State Nurse of 14 Distinction is annually chosen from among the 15 eight Regional Nurses of Distinction. I would 16 like to introduce to you now our eighth Regional 17 Nurse of Distinction who is also our 1995 New 18 York State Nurse of Distinction, the Assistant 19 Nursing Administrator in the Division of 20 Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Long Island 21 Jewish Medical Center in New Hyde Park, Kathleen 22 Capitulo. 23 (Applause.) 8276 1 Congratulations to each of you 2 and our deepest thanks for the excellent work 3 you're doing to enhance the quality of life for 4 our state's residents, and I know that Elaine 5 will be delighted to photograph each and every 6 one of my colleagues with their appropriate 7 representative at their leisure if they should 8 so desire. 9 Thank you again. 10 (Applause.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: This 12 resolution has been previously adopted, and on 13 behalf of the Senate we welcome you and 14 congratulations. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 17 There will be an immediate meeting of the 18 Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol 19 followed by a meeting of the Rules Committee in 20 the same room. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: There 22 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 23 Committee in Room 332 followed immediately 8277 1 thereafter by a meeting of the Rules Committee. 2 Senator Tully, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. With respect to those photographs 5 with the nurses of distinction, I understand 6 they will be going to Room 124 in the Capitol, 7 for any members that might have the time to go 8 down and congratulate them and who wish to have 9 a photograph taken. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Thank 12 you, Senator Tully. 13 Senator Skelos, we have a few 14 motions to take care of. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: May we return to 16 motions and resolutions. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 18 Senator Johnson. 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. I move to amend Senate Bill 4469A by 21 striking out the amendments made on May 15 and 22 restoring it to its original print number, 4469. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 8278 1 Amendments received and adopted. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: And another 3 one, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 5 Senator Johnson. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: On behalf of 7 Senator Nozzolio, I wish to call up his bill, 8 Print Number 3202, recalled from the Assembly, 9 which is now at the desk. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 558, by 13 Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3202, an act to 14 amend the Town Law, in relation to providing for 15 the election of a third town justice. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 17 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 18 bill was passed. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: The 20 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 21 (The Secretary called the roll on 22 reconsideration.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 8279 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DEFRANCISCO: 2 The bill is before the house. 3 Senator Johnson. 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 5 I now offer up the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 7 Amendments received and adopted. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 10 believe the objection of the Minority has been 11 removed on Calendar Number 1172, by Senator 12 Goodman. 13 (There was a pause in the 14 proceedings.) 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 16 If we could lay that bill aside temporarily and 17 call up Senator Kuhl's bill, Calendar Number 18 1040. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1040, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3077, an act 23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 8280 1 relation to permitting the discharge of a 2 firearm. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 5 Explanation has been asked for. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, 8 this is a rather simple bill in its approach. 9 There currently is a prohibition about 10 discharging firearms within a certain distance 11 of school facilities. This bill would provide 12 an exemption when, in fact, a rabid animal, 13 particularly a fox or a raccoon, happens to be 14 within that area, we would allow under this 15 provision a person to discharge a firearm to 16 kill that animal. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 18 Senator Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 if Senator Kuhl would be so kind as to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 22 Senator Kuhl, do you yield? 23 SENATOR KUHL: Absolutely. 8281 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Kuhl, 4 it is correct, isn't it, that if a person is 5 bitten by a rabid animal that we do have a 6 cure? 7 SENATOR KUHL: On some occasions, 8 that's correct, Senator Paterson. If you know 9 that an animal is rabid and, in fact, you 10 undertake a procedure which deals with several 11 shots over an elongated period of time -- and 12 it's a rather expensive operation I'm told, 13 somewhere in excess of $1,000 per person -- yes, 14 there is a cure -- I should say "a prevention" 15 that's available in anticipation of the onset of 16 the disease of rabies, yes. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. I'm not trying to be disingenuous or 19 misleading in my question. What I'm really just 20 trying to point out is the value of the risk of 21 a bite from a rabid animal as opposed to the 22 possibility of an accident with a firearm very 23 close to a school building. 8282 1 So if Senator Kuhl would be 2 willing to yield again? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 4 Senator Kuhl, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 6 to yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator, 10 what we're saying is at the time we put this - 11 this law on the books, there was a concern, as 12 we have in a number of pieces of legislation, 13 about activities occurring around schools. 14 We have increased the penalties 15 for certain offenses particularly involving the 16 sale of drugs and that kind of thing, and the 17 reason that we do that, just generally, is that 18 any kind of societal activity, we feel, takes on 19 an added precedence when it occurs near a 20 school. 21 So, in other words, even if the 22 number of accidents from the discharge of 23 firearms would be a low number, there is a 8283 1 presumption that we don't even want the risk, we 2 don't even want the thought, we don't even want 3 the perception that there is a possibility of an 4 accident or a weapon being fired in one area and 5 it goes through a fence and injures someone near 6 a school. 7 And so what I'm asking is, with 8 that value already applied as law, why would you 9 want to change it in favor of a value that is 10 certainly important but one that has a greater 11 remedy than the possibility of an accident? 12 SENATOR KUHL: The answer to your 13 question, Senator, is very simple. Out in my 14 district about two years ago, we had a situation 15 occur where an individual who, in his backyard, 16 which happened to be within 500 feet of a 17 property defined as a school district, had a 18 rabid animal approaching his children. He had 19 no way of defending his children other than to 20 immediately grab a shotgun and kill the animal. 21 He did so and then was arrested 22 for discharging a gun to defend his children 23 from potentially the onset of a fatal disease. 8284 1 Now, it seems to me that an 2 individual ought to have the right to defend his 3 children, his family members, his friends, who 4 might be on his premises when an animal who is 5 exhibiting rabid tendencies, wandering in 6 circles, being friendly when they are normally 7 not friendly -- certainly, a skunk who raises 8 its tail we would all run from, but that's not 9 the tendency that is exhibited in this 10 particular case. So this bill was put forth 11 essentially to remedy a situation which this 12 individual found himself in, and that was 13 defending the life of his child and actually 14 being prosecuted for doing so. 15 Now, to me, there's something 16 inately wrong with the law when we prosecute 17 people for defending their children, and all 18 this bill does is essentially provide an 19 exemption for those people who find themselves 20 in that position to be able to effect good 21 reason, good rationale and to defend the people 22 that they love the most. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 8285 1 President. I'm really -- after hearing that 2 story, I'm really appalled that the local 3 prosecutor under Section 343 of the Criminal 4 Procedure Law would not have thrown that case 5 out, even though under the law as it exists 6 right now the arrest may have been valid. 7 What Senator Kuhl is saying is 8 absolutely true, and the particular distinction 9 to the example that Senator Kuhl gives and the 10 situation that we're trying to avoid by raising 11 questions on this particular bill is the fact 12 that, if I'm correct, Senator Kuhl, the 13 individual was defending their children from a 14 rabid animal on their own property; and so if I 15 might suggest, I would agree that I see a 16 difference when it is the person's own 17 property. 18 All I'm saying is that this piece 19 of legislation, as I see it, Senator Kuhl, is a 20 little overreaching in the sense that within 500 21 yards of a school building there can be a lot of 22 public area, and it is really the decision or 23 the judgment that's made by individuals, even 8286 1 with respect to rabid animals, in public areas 2 that I would be a little more concerned about. 3 In the example that you are citing, you are 4 correct. There probably should be some redress 5 under the law for that particular situation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 7 Senator Kuhl. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Just if I might 9 address that particular concern. 10 Senator Paterson, you are 11 absolutely correct and that is why, if you 12 notice the language in the bill, there was an 13 addition that essentially puts some conditions 14 as to discharge of the firearm in the bill, and 15 the language reads, "***and no dwelling, house, 16 farm building, farm structure actually occupied 17 or used, school building or playground or 18 occupied factory or a church is situated in the 19 line of discharge." 20 That's a limiting provision that 21 we didn't have to include in the bill, but we 22 did specifically because we didn't want people 23 to start to play games with this statute, this 8287 1 exemption. What we're really intending to do 2 was to essentially eliminate the situation or 3 the potential situation for prosecution that, in 4 fact, occurred, and that's why we presented this 5 bill. 6 It's a real life situation, a 7 real life situation. I underline the word 8 life. It's a real life situation. It was 9 wrongfully prosecuted, no question about that. 10 But the prosecutor when presented with the 11 situation, okay, that there was a discharge 12 within 500 feet of a school premises, prosecuted 13 and what this does is simply take that out and 14 give an exemption in this particular 15 life-threatening situation. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 19 Senator Wright. 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. On the bill. 22 I want to commend Senator Kuhl 23 for his initiative and also to recognize my 8288 1 colleague, Senator Paterson, in his understand 2 ing of the problem. In our area of the state, 3 there are considerable concerns and growing 4 concerns, justifiably, over rabid animals, be 5 they raccoons, skunks or foxes, and 6 unfortunately we have a crisis in this state in 7 some areas of the state -- my area, Senator 8 Maziarz' area -- as we are adjacent to borders 9 with Canada in a growing rabid animal population 10 and, consequently, there are circumstances where 11 there is a high degree of danger to children and 12 others that warrant immediate action. They do 13 not and are not conducive to allowing for 14 permits to be filed, a process to go through, 15 but they require a warrant because of the nature 16 of the danger of a rabid animal and an immediate 17 response and capability with reasonable 18 judgment, and I think that's what the Senator 19 has framed within the legislation. 20 It's an appropriate response, and 21 I would ask and encourage my colleagues' support 22 of this bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 8289 1 Senator Waldon. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. President. 4 Would Senator Kuhl yield to a 5 question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 7 Senator Kuhl, do you yield to a question? 8 SENATOR KUHL: (There was no 9 response.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR KUHL: I do yield. I was 13 disappointed he didn't ask for the learned 14 Senator from Steuben County to yield, but yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Maybe 16 the next time. 17 Senator Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Just one second. 19 Mr. President, would you ask the 20 learned gentleman from Steuben, Chemung, 21 Schuyler, Yates, Ontario and Tompkins County to 22 yield to a question? 23 SENATOR KUHL: I'll be happy to 8290 1 yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: I 3 wasn't going to repeat that, but the Senator 4 yields. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 Senator, I have two areas that I 8 need to explore with you. One is I noticed, and 9 I read this very quickly, very cursorily, there 10 was not a mention of dogs in the bill. Are they 11 included in those rabid animals which could be 12 shot on site if the dangers depicted in your 13 bill were evidenced to the owner or the lessee 14 of the home? 15 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, right 16 now, if you were to look at, statistically, what 17 is happening in New York State, we have been 18 somewhat aware of rabies as a disease 19 approaching New York State for several years. 20 There has been, primarily, a couple of species 21 of animals that have carried that disease, 22 primarily raccoons, skunks and foxes. 23 Dogs are not known to be carriers 8291 1 of the disease; however, they can be affected 2 much like cattle can be affected or any kind of 3 a domesticated animal, but the disease primarily 4 rests in those three types of species, skunks, 5 foxes, raccoons. 6 What we have seen over the years 7 is that this disease has gradually migrated, if 8 you will, from the southern states up through 9 and into New York. Senator Wright's concern is 10 very, very, very, valid in that rabies as a 11 disease is approaching his district. It is in 12 all of the southern counties across the state 13 starting out in Chautauqua County in the western 14 part of the state all the way down into New 15 York, the Bronx; it's in New York City all the 16 way across the southern part of the state, and 17 it is migrating north. 18 We have from a budgetary 19 standpoint in the last three or four years 20 attempted to create some pilot programs to try 21 to isolate this disease and work out a 22 prevention program, but, as of yet, we have not 23 come up with a solution. So the solution really 8292 1 is just the disease working itself through, the 2 affected animals dying out, hopefully, out in 3 the wilderness, and their carcasses rotting and 4 the disease dying right there. 5 But what we find is that in the 6 rural counties we're having more and more of an 7 infestation and that is approaching the 8 populated areas and, as a result of that, they 9 are actually becoming life threatening to human 10 individuals. We find ourselves in a situation 11 where it is not uncommon for people to find 12 carcasses of dead raccoons, dead skunks and dead 13 foxes along the road, and people are scared to 14 death to pick them up because once you pick that 15 animal up, if it has recently died, if there's 16 saliva and you have that on your hands then you 17 can transmit that disease to somebody else, to 18 some other animal. 19 So it is very important in the 20 line of this bill to be able to terminate what 21 is obviously an infected animal, its life, to 22 save people, dogs, whatever it may be. We 23 oftentimes are put in a position where our 8293 1 domesticated animals, our dogs and our cats, 2 will embark upon a fight with a skunk, a 3 raccoon, or a fox, and you can't touch that 4 animal because the minute you do, if you have an 5 open wound, then you have now subjected yourself 6 to potential infection and, if you know anything 7 about the disease of rabies, if it goes 8 undetected and untreated, it is fatal. You will 9 die, and it is an awful death. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 11 Oh, we have a new Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 13 Waldon. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. I don't think I made my question 16 clear. I am actually in support of the bill. I 17 was wondering why, if a rabid dog came into 18 someone's yard, that the bill did not cover - 19 if it is the same danger spelled out in regard 20 to raccoons, foxes, and skunks, it did not cover 21 that the owner or lessee could, as well, shoot 22 that dog. I was really trying to help you to 23 broaden the scope. 8294 1 SENATOR KUHL: It's very simple, 2 Senator Waldon. Dogs and cats really aren't the 3 transmitters of the disease, okay? They are the 4 victims of the disease, but they don't carry it 5 from one place to another as do raccoons, skunks 6 and foxes. They are really the host of the 7 disease and they carry it from one place to 8 another. 9 If a dog becomes infected, it's 10 almost -- I don't know what the hours or the 11 days are, but their life is rather shortlived. 12 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 13 continue, Mr. President. I'll bring this to a 14 close real quick. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 16 Chair recognizes Senator Waldon. 17 SENATOR WALDON: The point I was 18 hoping that you and I could make, Senator Kuhl, 19 is that if a rabid dog were approaching 20 someone's children, that that person would have 21 the same responsibility and the same fear as if 22 it were a fox, et cetera, and I wanted to know 23 could he or she kill that dog with equal 8295 1 dispatch and to be free of liability under this 2 bill that you are proposing? It does not 3 specifically say so. Maybe it's addressed 4 somewhere else and you know about it and, 5 therefore, you did not include it. That's fine 6 with me. I just wanted to know could we take 7 care of that animal with this piece of 8 legislation? 9 SENATOR KUHL: In response to 10 your question, Senator Waldon, I believe that 11 the provisions of the Agriculture and Markets 12 Law allow for the termination of the life of a 13 domestic animal if there is a threat to a 14 person's life, already. That is not the case 15 with regard to a skunk or a fox or a raccoon. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Okay. Thank you 17 very much. One last question, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Waldon. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Kuhl - 21 and this is just for my personal edification and 22 perhaps the edification of some of those of our 23 colleagues. There's nothing under the laws of 8296 1 the state of New York -- or let me ask this. Is 2 there anything under the state's laws, as you 3 know them, which would preclude a law 4 enforcement officer, if he happened or she 5 happened to be present, rendering the service 6 necessitated by the circumstance of the raccoon, 7 the fox, the skunk, the dog, anyone who might be 8 in a rabid condition, taking that animal's life 9 without fear of personal liability, acting in a 10 reasonable way? 11 SENATOR KUHL: I guess I'm rather 12 limited in knowledge, Senator Waldon, about that 13 particular area, but I don't believe that there 14 is an exclusion that would prohibit a law 15 enforcement officer from doing that. The 16 problem is the situation occurs so quickly, in 17 most cases, that if there is a life-threatening 18 situation that you don't have time to dial up 19 911, call a law enforcement agent, and get them 20 there to do that. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kuhl. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 8297 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 9 bill is passed. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 12 Could you call up Senator Velella's bill, 13 Calendar Number 1167. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1167, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4969, an 18 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 19 eliminating certain criteria for multi-tiering 20 program regarding risks. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 23 Paterson has requested an explanation. 8298 1 The Chair recognizes Senator 2 Velella. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: This is a 4 cleanup bill in which we had provided in past 5 legislation for a multi-tiered system for auto 6 rating to give companies an opportunity to 7 depopulate the assigned risk pool and to create 8 different tiers of insurance commensurate with 9 the risk. We allowed them to do that up to 10 3 percent of their total book of business. 11 However, in doing that, when we 12 allowed them to do the 3 percent of their total 13 book of business, the problem arose that, 14 inadvertently, we had not made an exclusion that 15 would violate the 2 percent rule that says that 16 they can cancel 2 percent of their book of 17 business without any reason. 18 So in order to clear up that 19 technical deficiency, the Department has asked, 20 before they promulgate rules to set the tiers 21 up, that we clear that discrepancy up so that 22 nobody be technically in violation of the law. 23 I just might add that the reason 8299 1 we have done this multi-tier program is that in 2 the state of New Hampshire they have had this 3 program and, based on the effect of this 4 program, they have reduced their assigned risk 5 pool from 33 percent of their total population 6 to 12 percent of the total population. I am 7 very hopeful that this will do the same thing in 8 the state of New York which would affect really 9 your constituents and mine who are very often 10 placed in assigned risk when they shouldn't be. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Chair 12 recognizes Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 14 if Senator Velella would yield for a question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Velella, do you yield? 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Senator, 19 I apologize in advance. There were a number of 20 consultations over here and you may have 21 actually answered my question already. 22 But the 2 percent rule that, in a 23 sense, protects the consumers in a particular 8300 1 area from assigned risk, so to speak, how - 2 what is the protection that we have, whereby the 3 insurance company with the multi-tiered policy 4 may actually move individuals into the multi 5 tiers in a sense to get them out? That would be 6 the effect of going around the 2 percent. That 7 wouldn't even count. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: That, Senator 9 -- the 2 percent rule applies to cancellations; 10 any company can cancel without any reason and 11 move someone out. The 3 percent rule is the cap 12 on the most they can move someone in a higher 13 priced tier. They can't move anybody more than 14 3 percent of their total book of business up to 15 a higher level tier. When they do that, if the 16 person drops the coverage because they've been 17 moved to a higher level tier, it violates the 2 18 percent rule because, in effect, they have 19 canceled the person. 20 That's the discrepancy that we 21 are trying to clear up. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: In other 23 words, in actually putting in the multi tiers, 8301 1 you have maintained the same percentages and, in 2 a sense, the same protections that would have 3 existed if they were going into the assigned 4 risk category? 5 SENATOR VELELLA: We put a cap on 6 it, and what we've said is, if it starts to work 7 out the way we anticipate it will work out and 8 it works out as well as it did in New Hampshire, 9 that, in effect, we might then come back here 10 and say we want to see if we can raise this 11 number, and it seems to be working good. If 12 not, you know, we will have to take a look at it 13 and repeal it. But it's worked well in other 14 states. We have no reason to believe that it 15 won't work well here. This bill is before us. 16 That issue was decided by the Legislature 17 before. 18 The issue now is this technical 19 problem between the 3 percent and the 2 percent, 20 which cause a conflict and violate the law, and 21 the Department has asked us to clear that up 22 before they promulgate the regulations. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, that 8302 1 is -- that's very constructive, Senator. I 2 think you can understand what the fear that we 3 would have had if you had not built that 4 protection into the legislation. 5 So, Mr. President, it really is 6 Bronx Day around here. This is a very good 7 bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 9 you, Senator Paterson. 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the same date as 13 Chapter 9 of the Laws of 1995. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Just stand at 22 ease, Mr. President, for a moment. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senate 8303 1 is at ease. 2 (Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the 3 Senate was at ease.) 4 (The Senate reconvened at 12:20 5 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There's 7 a housekeeping issue, Senator. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, why 9 don't we return to motions and resolutions and 10 do some housekeeping. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 12 you, Senator Kuhl. 13 Senator Saland. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Mr. President, I would like to 17 remove the sponsor's star from my bill, Senate 18 3623-A, Calendar Number 441. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 20 star will be removed. 21 SENATOR SALAND: On behalf of 22 Senator Lack, would you please remove the 23 sponsor's star from Calendar Number 115. 8304 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 2 star will be removed. 3 SENATOR SALAND: On behalf of 4 Senator Bruno, Mr. President, would you please 5 call up Print Number 3219-A recalled from the 6 Assembly which is now at the desk. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1078, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3219-A, an 11 act to amend Chapter 714 of the Laws of 1986. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 13 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 14 bill was passed. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 16 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 17 (The Secretary called the roll on 18 reconsideration.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 21 now offer the following amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 23 bill is before the house. The amendments are 8305 1 received as presented. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 3 on behalf of Senator Hoblock, on page 17, I 4 offer the following amendments to Calendar 657, 5 Senate Print Number 3109 and ask that the bill 6 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 8 amendments are received. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 13 return to reports of standing committees, I 14 believe there's a report at the -- of the Rules 15 Committee. I ask that it be read. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 17 Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 19 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 20 following bills: 21 Senate Print 5336, by the 22 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the State 23 Finance Law. 8306 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 2 Chair recognize... I'm sorry. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 69, 4 by Senator Larkin, an act to amend the Insurance 5 Law and Tax Law, in relation to supplemental 6 health insurance account; 7 612, by Senator Stafford, an act 8 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 9 relation to the citing of industrial hazardous 10 waste facilities; 11 1929, by Senator Present, an act 12 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act, 13 in relation to adjudicatory proceedings; 14 2013, by Senator Santiago, an act 15 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 16 interest in certain real property; 17 2459-A, by Senator Skelos, an act 18 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 19 directing the Division of Criminal Justice 20 Services; 21 2693, by Senator Padavan, an act 22 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to 23 conjunctional billing by utility corporations 8307 1 and municipalities; 2 3534, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 4 to authorizing the operation of farm motor 5 vehicles; 6 4592-A, by Senator Larkin, an act 7 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 8 to the refund of certain amounts of real 9 property taxes on condominiums; 10 4686, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 11 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 12 relation to the time limitations for speedy 13 trial; 14 5173-A, by Senator Hoblock, an 15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 16 Penal Law, in relation to definition of juvenile 17 offender; 18 5275, by Senator Marchi, an act 19 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 20 relation to establishing the "Lou Figurelli 21 Memorial Fish and wildlife Sanctuary"; 22 All bills record ordered directly 23 for third reading. 8308 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 2 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 4 move we accept the report of the Rules 5 Committee. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All 7 those in favor of accepting the report of the 8 Rules Committee signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The report is accepted. 13 The Chair recognizes Senator 14 Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 16 immediate Conference of the Majority in Room 332 17 of the Capitol. I believe the Minority has 18 requested a conference. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: There will be 8309 1 an immediate conference of the Minority in Room 2 315 at the Capitol. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 4 you. 5 The Senate will stand at ease. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will 7 stand at ease, Mr. President, until 1:15 sharp. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 9 Senate will stand at ease until 1:15 sharp while 10 the respective conferences meet. 11 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 12 ease from 12:30 p.m. until 1:30 p.m.) 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 15 Chair recognizes Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 17 call up Senator Marchi's bill, Calendar Number 18 854, Senate 2379. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 854, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2379, an 23 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 8310 1 relation to directing the Triborough Bridge and 2 Tunnel Authority. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 5 Paterson requests an explanation. 6 Senator Marchi. 7 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 8 the problem on Staten Island and the question of 9 one-way utilization or one-way toll collection 10 is related to the fact that this is the only 11 physical contact that we have with the state of 12 New York, the Verrazano Bridge, and in 1986, 13 Congress established that tolls be collected in 14 a one-way fashion from traffic proceeding 15 westward at the Island. 16 The reason for it was that there 17 was serious, serious difficulties experienced by 18 the residents of Staten Island who were going to 19 work, who were making -- who were employed in 20 New York and drove in or were -- had other, 21 either professional obligations, any number of 22 reasons for reaching the city of New York in the 23 morning on time, and the traffic -- the traffic 8311 1 is very heavy, and the extraordinary delays that 2 were involved sometimes, even with the best of 3 effort and an early departure from home, still 4 resulted in people arriving at work or whatever 5 the circumstances brought them into the City 6 late. 7 Coming back, they can absorb 8 lateness because they can eat later or they just 9 -- it's not their bread and butter. It's not 10 daily living, and Congress mandated this, but 11 the last mandate ran out, so there is no mandate 12 and the people in Staten Island -- I say this is 13 an issue without political division on Staten 14 Island. 15 There isn't a single public 16 official who -- representative who doesn't share 17 this feeling because it is the -- this is a 18 unanimous sentiment of people that suffer 19 grievously, if they're compelled to be 20 subordinated to a system that frequently ends up 21 with their being late, jeopardizing their 22 livelihood, and it's not just a question of 23 convenience. It's -- the convenience can come 8312 1 later, but when people go home, they are 2 prepared to accept convenience, if they're still 3 working and still earning a livelihood. 4 So this would establish, by law, 5 a -- a one-way traffic just making it very - 6 facilitating access for the people of Staten 7 Island to get to the rest of the city in the 8 morning. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 10 Chair recognizes Senator Abate. 11 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Senator 12 Marchi, would you yield to a number of 13 questions? 14 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Marchi, will you yield? The Senator yields. 17 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Marchi, 18 you have obviously represented extremely well 19 your district and certainly in terms of Staten 20 Island, there was some benefit to the one-way 21 toll. 22 The -- my understanding when the 23 bill was passed in 1986, it was partially passed 8313 1 to avoid some financial penalties from the 2 federal government because, in order to be in 3 compliance with some of the issues at hand, 4 there was a prerequisite to have a one-way toll 5 to avoid the reduction in highway monies to New 6 York City, is that correct? 7 SENATOR MARCHI: There -- there 8 may have been other considerations prompting the 9 adoption of the legislation. At that time it 10 was negotiated by Congressman Molinari, the 11 borough -- now the Borough President, and then 12 later by his daughter when she went to Congress, 13 and that objective was totally on the question 14 of access for Staten Islanders so that they 15 could get there -- they could get to their place 16 of work and obligation at -- at a reasonable - 17 in a reasonable time. Now, there may have been 18 other considerations involved and I'll accept 19 that. I'm sure - 20 SENATOR ABATE: But certainly at 21 the time it made sense for New York State not to 22 lose federal highway dollars to pass a law that 23 required the one-way toll. It's my 8314 1 understanding those federal restrictions have 2 been lifted, and so if we fail to act today, we 3 fail not to make it permanent, we don't lose any 4 federal dollars. 5 SENATOR MARCHI: If it cost us 6 money on Staten Island, people don't want to get 7 to work on time. So that -- I appreciate the - 8 these considerations have value, they're not 9 certainly without value, but you've got an awful 10 lot of people there that are seriously 11 inconvenienced. It's just a situation that they 12 cannot abide. 13 SENATOR ABATE: But I think at 14 this point the last environmental impact study 15 that was done was in 1988, I believe. Has there 16 been a study done subsequent to that? 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Traffic is only 18 getting worse. As a matter of fact, not at the 19 -- the Narrows divide, but there's a question 20 of opening -- of constructing another bridge to 21 New Jersey because of the enormous traffic 22 pattern that has developed and it's constantly 23 increasing. So the problem would be a very 8315 1 severe one for people of Staten Island to get 2 over there. 3 SENATOR ABATE: The issue is I 4 also represent a constituency which is very much 5 involved in this issue, and whereas the one-way 6 toll may have benefited the residents of Staten 7 Island, it's perceived as a tremendous detriment 8 to the lower Manhattan area, as well as areas in 9 Brooklyn. 10 I can only speak to the negative 11 impact it has had on lower Manhattan. It's one 12 of the critical issues that community members 13 have talked about in terms of increased traffic, 14 pollution, particularly carbon monoxide, 15 pedestrian and vehicular congestion, and my 16 concern is we're now relying on a 1988 study, 17 and it seems to me before we make this one-way 18 toll permanent, wouldn't it be advisable to have 19 a second study -- we're talking about almost ten 20 years later -- to look at traffic patterns, to 21 look at other kinds of options? I'm not 22 ignoring the issues that you raise vis-a-vis 23 Staten Island commuters, but I am very concerned 8316 1 about that impact, because what has happened is 2 there's more traffic coming from Manhattan to 3 Staten Island because of the one-way toll, and 4 it's hurt businesses. It's hurt the entire 5 downtown area. 6 So I would suggest, if you would 7 consider, is not moving this into a permanent 8 status but consider whether a current study 9 needs to look at the current conditions. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 11 -- I wish I could accede to your request, but 12 we are at risk at the present moment. There is 13 no mandate -- the mandate has expired. I don't 14 know how this mayor feels, but the previous 15 mayor was anxious to have it changed, and he was 16 very much for a restoration of the two-way 17 system. 18 You have to understand, Senator, 19 that -- I remember I used to have lunch with Bob 20 Moses about once every other month back in those 21 days, and on the Island, of course, there wasn't 22 great enthusiasm for the bridge to begin with. 23 However, it was very obvious that the enormous 8317 1 traffic that was generated from Long Island all 2 plowing through Manhattan over those facilities 3 desperately needed a -- a shorter access so that 4 this heavy -- the central city would be relieved 5 of the heavy burden of traffic that it was being 6 -- that they were afflicted with and it was 7 growing incrementally. So that's why the 8 Verrazano Bridge was built. It wasn't built to 9 facilitate Island access, but it was built to 10 shunt so much of that traffic going down below 11 the 40th parallel and going south to send it 12 directly rather than have it plow through the 13 City. 14 Well, we've done that. I mean, 15 we're not -- nobody is jumping up and down with 16 joy that the bridge is there but, nevertheless, 17 it is there, and it is accomplishing the purpose 18 intended by Mr. Moses at that time and millions 19 of cars run through there all the time. 20 SENATOR ABATE: I'm sorry. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: All we ask - 22 all we ask is that we permit it at least to make 23 util... our utilization be protected. If we 8318 1 were deprived of this, it would be a very 2 serious setback to a community of 400,000 people 3 who have no other options. This is the only 4 physical connection that we have with the state 5 of New York. People living in Long Island or 6 any place else have other options. There are 7 bridges. There are tunnels. There are a 8 variety of weapons of choice that they may elect 9 to utilize, but we have nothing else. That's 10 it. That is the only physical connection. The 11 only other way you can do it is to go through 12 Jersey and then go up the Jersey coast and then 13 come back into the city of New York, which is 14 the -- which is the way that we did it at one 15 time. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator 17 Marchi yield to another question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 19 Marchi, will you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Senator. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, but 8319 1 what's before this Legislature is not a bill 2 that is promoting a two-way toll. What you're 3 seeking to do is make the one-way toll 4 permanent, and it seems to me that the one-way 5 toll given the state officials that have now 6 spoken on the issues and the local officials, 7 there's no movement of foot to threaten the 8 status of that one-way toll, and my concern is 9 once you make it permanent -- there may be new 10 bridges, there may be new highways. It seems to 11 me we need to do a feasibility study, do another 12 EIS to determine if, in fact, there are other 13 options that are compatible with the one-way 14 toll and also would reduce the negative impact 15 on lower Manhattan. 16 I'm not suggesting at this point 17 that we go back to a two-way toll. I'm saying 18 to make it permanent, then eliminates the 19 opportunity to look at other options that may be 20 responsive to all of our needs. 21 What we have here is a one-way 22 toll that benefits one community, a very 23 critical community. It's a commuter community 8320 1 that works in the other parts of New York City, 2 but it also impacts on the business and 3 residential community of lower Manhattan, and 4 what I'm suggesting before we make it permanent, 5 why not take another opportunity, another chance 6 to see if there's another way to do it and also 7 meet the needs of both communities. 8 SENATOR MARCHI: Well, you know, 9 I know you're -- you're -- you're in good faith, 10 I accept that, but I'll quote from an article 11 from the -- on the Times of a year and a half 12 ago. "At City Hall yesterday, Mayor David 13 Dinkins", who's an old friend of mine of many 14 years standing, "called for an end to the 15 one-way tolls. He and the Borough Presidents of 16 Manhattan and Brooklyn, Ruth Messinger and 17 Howard Golden, said they wanted jurisdiction on 18 the question restored to the City." 19 It goes on to say, "The system we 20 have only benefits the Island. It's just plain 21 politics", and then he goes on to say that - 22 that the present time system is not supportable. 23 We want it -- we want to see it 8321 1 chiseled in stone at this point. If there are 2 other remedial approaches that would protect the 3 concerns that the people of Staten Island have 4 and at the same time accomplish other 5 objectives, I certainly would offer no serious 6 objection, but that punch has been telegraphed 7 and it's, you know, the same problem that we 8 have with -- with the solid waste disposal. We 9 take over 1,000 tons an hour. Over half of all 10 the solid waste in the state of New York is 11 deposited in Staten Island. There's nothing 12 being done to -- looking to closure, even though 13 that there is a theoretical, critical mass that 14 will be reached by the year 2008, but it -- it's 15 part of the syndrome that people -- concern the 16 people of Staten Island very much, and this one 17 is a -- constitutes a very definite threat given 18 the punches that have been telegraphed by city 19 officials, not by you, Senator, and I know that 20 you want to be fair about this but, believe me, 21 we're not satisfied with the mandate that has 22 just recently expired and we want to see it 23 protected by law. 8322 1 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator - 2 SENATOR MARCHI: And laws can be 3 changed. These are not constitutional changes 4 we're speaking about. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 6 Abate. 7 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would 8 Senator Marchi continue to yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 10 Marchi, would you continue to yield? Senator 11 Marchi continues to yield. 12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. You just 13 raised a very important issue. We're now 14 dealing with a situation in New York City where 15 there are -- a number of boroughs are impacted 16 differently by this one-way toll. Brooklyn and 17 Manhattan feel differently than Staten Island 18 and clearly the City officials as a whole have 19 to look at what's in the best interests of the 20 City. 21 Do you believe the state 22 Legislature is over-reaching by getting involved 23 -- which is really a very local issue. It's an 8323 1 economic issue. It's a quality of life issue. 2 It deals with transportation and other issues. 3 Do you think it's appropriate for the state 4 Legislature to get involved in what really is a 5 local issue? 6 SENATOR MARCHI: If we don't 7 receive relief and protection in the state 8 Legislature, we will not have any -- we've just 9 had too many experiences where our -- even 10 though Staten Island, if the Assembly take their 11 foot off the bill and allow it to be acted upon, 12 would result in the creation of a new city, the 13 second largest in the state. It's still only a 14 very, very small miniscule part of the city of 15 New York and politically, it just doesn't have 16 the clout to -- to -- I mean, we've seen it in 17 so many different circumstances. It just 18 doesn't have the clout to -- to have an audience 19 on this subject and resolved in ways that are 20 fair to the people that I represent and -- but 21 the Legislature has that power, and if we enact 22 this legislation, it will protect my people. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you, 8324 1 Senator. 2 On the bill -- on the bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 4 Abate. 5 SENATOR ABATE: As I initially 6 stated, I compliment you, Senator, in 7 representing your district well and the interest 8 of your district, but I too have an obligation 9 to represent the members of my community who 10 feel that they're very much harmed by a one-way 11 toll, and I would like to see -- and I think the 12 fairest way -- and again, I do not underestimate 13 the real impact a two-way toll has had in the 14 past -- in the past, I say, on Staten Island, 15 and I would think that there might be out there 16 an option that could satisfy the needs of both 17 communities, but we won't know that if we don't 18 do a new study, look at an economic feasibility 19 study in terms of other kinds of transportation 20 so that Staten Island could have different ways 21 of commuting into the borough as well as looking 22 at the two-way tolls. Maybe it's at different 23 hours to give some relief for commuters and it's 8325 1 a one-way toll on certain hours and two-way 2 tolls at others. 3 I don't know what the relief 4 would be, but it seems to me that the last EIS 5 study was in 1988. Things have changed since 6 then, and I don't think it's judicious for us in 7 the state Legislature to get involved in a local 8 issue where there has not been a recent impact 9 on three vital communities. Those vital 10 communities are Manhattan, Brooklyn and Staten 11 Island. 12 So what I would urge my 13 colleagues -- again, I'm very sensitive to the 14 needs of the workers in Staten Island but we as 15 a body must also be sensitive to the needs of 16 lower Manhattan and lower Brooklyn. 17 So I would ask that we vote no on 18 this legislation so that we can do a more recent 19 study and maybe come up with an option that 20 satisfies all three boroughs. 21 Thank you very much. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 23 Chair recognizes Senator DiCarlo. 8326 1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I rise in support of this 4 legislation. I am in the position of 5 representing two of the counties that are 6 impacted by Senator Marchi's bill, both Staten 7 Island and Brooklyn. The Verrazano-Narrows 8 Bridge, both ends of it connect my district, the 9 Staten Island portion and the Brooklyn portion. 10 I support it for my constituency 11 in Staten Island for all the reasons that have 12 already been stated by Senator Marchi and it's 13 the right thing to do. 14 I also support it representing 15 the area in Brooklyn which is connected by the 16 bridge, the Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights and 17 Bensonhurst communities, and I support it for my 18 constituencies in those communities in Brooklyn 19 also. 20 My two districts, my communities, 21 are very similar and most of my families in 22 Brooklyn have relatives, be they parents or 23 grandchildren, in Staten Island and my 8327 1 constituents in Staten Island also have many 2 relatives in Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights and 3 Bensonhurst, and we are constantly going back 4 and forth over this bridge, sometimes on a daily 5 basis to visit relatives, to get to work, to do 6 what has to be done, and from my constituents in 7 the Brooklyn end of the district, this has not 8 been a hardship with the one-way toll and from 9 my constituents in Staten Island, it would be a 10 hardship if this bill did not pass and we went 11 back to a two-way toll. So I commend Senator 12 Marchi, and I urge this bill's passage. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 14 Connor. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 I appreciate Senator DiCarlo's 18 position as representing two of the counties 19 affected. It was only a few years ago between 20 1983 and the end of 1992 when I represented 21 portions of the three counties most affected by 22 this, Staten Island, Brooklyn and Manhattan, and 23 when the experiment started, although its 8328 1 origins are, frankly, in my view, governmentally 2 questionable, the experiment started when then 3 Congressman Molinari brought the United States 4 Congress in its waiting deliberations about 5 national matters down to debating and voting on 6 whether or not the Verrazano Bridge, wholly 7 contained within the city of New York, would 8 have one-way tolls or not, and I'm sure similar 9 instances like that occurred around the country 10 and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the 11 public's high regard for the United States 12 Congress. 13 Be that as it may, I supported 14 the experiment initially in representing the 15 legitimate concerns of Staten Islanders for air 16 quality, for traffic build-up, because an 17 enormous portion of the traffic is passing 18 through Staten Island from New Jersey. Traffic 19 patterns established that. In fact, I think 20 traffic patterns establish that more Staten 21 Islanders cross into New Jersey than into 22 Brooklyn on a given workday, but that through 23 traffic and the truck traffic was considerable 8329 1 and there was a legitimate concern in Staten 2 Island for air quality. 3 But as the experiment unfolded 4 year after year -- and it was an experiment - 5 it became apparent that because of some of the 6 economics of a one-way toll collection, that 7 motorists, particularly truckers, but many 8 motorists could save money if they entered 9 downtown Brooklyn, the piers there or entered 10 Manhattan via the Verrazano Bridge and then 11 exited those two boroughs by going through lower 12 Manhattan to the Holland Tunnel or even further 13 up, Lincoln Tunnel. They could actually save 14 money partly because of the one-way toll 15 collection patterns that the Port Authority has 16 on getting in and out of New York City. 17 The result -- and the studies on 18 air quality are interesting because what they 19 basically indicate is, except for some slight 20 differences, the difference between one-way toll 21 collection and two-way toll collection in terms 22 of air quality are not really an issue anymore. 23 The differences are somewhat negligible. So 8330 1 there's no -- there's no undue benefit nor, 2 frankly, is there any undue negative from the 3 one-way toll collection. 4 But if you've been in downtown 5 Brooklyn, the morning rush hour, or you've been 6 in lower Manhattan at virtually any time of the 7 day, particularly the evening rush hour, but any 8 time of the day because obviously commercial 9 traffic flows all day, you would see incredible 10 congestion on the streets of lower Manhattan 11 around Canal Street, always a difficult traffic 12 situation there in times past. Now it's 13 impossible. 14 And if you heard from residents 15 of downtown Brooklyn -- because the community I 16 represent there, quite frankly, are for the most 17 part residential, you would see in historic 18 Brooklyn Heights with a whole neighborhood of 19 nationally landmarked -- first historic 20 neighborhood in America -- of landmark pre-Civil 21 War brownstones, the streets clogged in the 22 morning with traffic. If you walked your 23 children to school as I do when I'm not up here, 8331 1 you would see the traffic, when the lights 2 change and you can move, has no regard for the 3 fact that -- these drivers have no regard for 4 the fact that they're in a residential 5 neighborhood. They speed up when they can 6 excessively, because these streets that lead to 7 the Brooklyn Bridge have become just as if they 8 were service roads to the BQE because the 9 traffic volume is such that there's a great 10 degree of diversion. 11 If you're familiar with the next 12 12 years in downtown Brooklyn and Sunset Park, 13 you know that there's a 12-year plan to close 14 most of the Gowanus Expressway and -- for much 15 needed repairs, but to an extent the traffic 16 will be impossible -- even more traffic will be 17 diverted onto local streets. 18 When you get downtown to the BQE, 19 there's a plan to close a bridge, divert all of 20 the traffic on the streets. There's another 21 need to repair -- which will be another dozen 22 year project -- the cantilever around Brooklyn 23 Heights that the BQE rides on, so that with this 8332 1 increased volume which, with all those roadways 2 open and flowing in the morning, has caused this 3 enormous spillover. There will also be these 4 other traffic diversions that only exacerbate 5 the problem to an extent that, frankly, 6 frightens residents. It will make life 7 impossible there that I believe ultimately will 8 affect that ambient air quality in those 9 neighborhoods if we were to measure them a 10 couple years down the road. 11 It threatens the -- because of 12 vibrations, because of everything the traffic 13 brings, threaten these historic neighborhoods in 14 terms of the foundations of very old houses, are 15 very valuable houses, historically and 16 economically and puts -- it's a major problem 17 for downtown Brooklyn and in lower Manhattan, 18 it's just impossible. 19 Once upon a time, Mr. President, 20 I remember representing these three counties and 21 finding out that in one re-election cycle 22 because I had once co-sponsored this bill, I had 23 once supported it, I thought it was an 8333 1 experiment worth trying for the people of Staten 2 Island. I remember paying a political price for 3 that. I remember Democrats in lower Manhattan 4 refusing to support me in a re-election bid 5 because how could I be for this one-way toll, 6 but I thought the fair thing to do at that time 7 -- at that time was try this experiment, and I 8 think the fair thing to do now is face reality, 9 face the facts. Face the fact to make things a 10 little bit better for Staten Island, we really 11 -- is not good policy to make things totally 12 impossible for the residents of downtown 13 Brooklyn and lower Manhattan. 14 Therefore, I think we shouldn't 15 be making this permanent. We ought to be ending 16 this experiment, perhaps going back to the 17 drawing boards and trying to be more creative 18 about how to solve traffic problems for Staten 19 Island as well as for the rest of the City. 20 This, though -- clearly, the experiment has 21 failed. It is not the answer. 22 I intend to once again vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 8334 1 Chair recognizes Senator Marchi. 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 3 one of the -- one of the biggest laments -- I 4 believe both Senator Abate and Senator Connor 5 made reference to it, the extraordinary amount 6 of commercial traffic that utilized the system 7 to save some money. 8 This was discussed very 9 thoroughly with -- with traffic engineers and 10 people who have managed bridges, and the bill 11 does provide that such system shall require the 12 collection of round trip toll on westbound 13 vehicles except that the authority may establish 14 a system of two-directional toll collections for 15 any commercial vehicle other than an omnibus 16 with a gross vehicle weight in excess of 18,000 17 pounds. 18 So that the heavy users and the 19 ones that are generating perhaps might be paying 20 a fairer share of the cost are these commercial 21 vehicles, especially those of a certain weight, 22 and that has been provided for in this bill. We 23 could put in place under the terms of this bill 8335 1 a two-way collection for these commercial 2 vehicles. 3 So I really -- to -- you are a 4 valued collaborator, Senator, while you were 5 there, and I know you both have -- you both like 6 Staten Island and hold it in your -- in esteem, 7 but this is very, very serious to the people I 8 represent, and if we don't get -- if we don't 9 get protection here, we're not going to get it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 854 are Senators 19 Abate, Connor, Espada, Kruger, Leichter, 20 Markowitz, Onorato, Paterson and Santiago. 21 Also, Senator Stachowski. Ayes 46, nays 10. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 23 bill is passed. 8336 1 Senator Smith. 2 THE SECRETARY: Also, Senator 3 Smith. 4 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 6 Chair recognizes Senator Spano. 7 SENATOR SPANO: Can we please go 8 to the Senate Supplemental Calendar Number 1, 9 non-controversial? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1178, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 69, an act 14 to amend the Insurance Law and the Tax Law, in 15 relation to supplemental health insurance 16 accounts. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 18 the last section. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 20 please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8337 1 1179, by Senator Stafford - 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 4 Chair recognizes Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 6 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 7 the negative on the three following bills: 8 Calendar 563, 994 and 1161. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Without 10 objection, the Senator is recorded in the 11 negative on 563, 994 and 1161. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 14 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Spano. 17 SENATOR SPANO: I believe 994 has 18 not been passed yet. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 20 Spano, you're correct, 994 has not passed yet. 21 Senator Paterson, why do you 22 rise? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 8338 1 would you please recognize Senator Montgomery. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 3 Montgomery. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 5 you, Mr. President. 6 I would like unanimous consent to 7 be in the negative on Calendar Number 854. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 9 Unanimous consent to record Senator Montgomery 10 in the negative on Calendar 854. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1179, by 15 Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an act to 16 amend the Environmental Conservation - 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 19 bill will be laid aside at the request of 20 Senator Paterson. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1180, by Senator Present, Senate Print 1929, an 23 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 8339 1 Act, in relation to adjudicatory proceedings. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 5 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago 13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Bill Number 2812 and substitute it for 15 the identical Calendar Number 1181. 16 Calendar Number 1181, by Member 17 of the Assembly Griffith, Assembly Print Number 18 2812, an act authorizing the city of New York to 19 reconvey its interest in certain real property. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 21 substitution is ordered. There's a home rule 22 message at the desk. Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8340 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1182, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2459-A, an 10 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 11 directing the Division of Criminal Justice 12 Services. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Lay it 15 aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1183, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2693, an 18 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 19 to conjunctional billing by utility corporations 20 and municipalities. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8341 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 6 bill is passed. Oops. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 1183 are 9 Senators Seward. Ayes 55, nays 1. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1184, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3534, an act 14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 15 relation to authorizing the operation of farm 16 motor vehicles. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8342 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1185, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4592-A, an 6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 7 relation to the refund of certain amounts of 8 real property taxes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the first day of 13 January. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1186, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4686, 22 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 23 relation to the time limitations for speedy 8343 1 trial. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1187, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5173-A, 14 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and 15 the Penal Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 17 bill is high. Lay it aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1188, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5275, an 20 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 21 in relation to establishing the "Lou Figurelli 22 Memorial Fish and Wildlife Sanctuary. " 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 8344 1 bill is high. Lay it aside. 2 Senator Spano, that completes the 3 non-controversial calendar. 4 SENATOR SPANO: Can we proceed to 5 the controversial calendar? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Proceed 7 with the controversial calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1178, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 69, an act 10 to amend the Insurance Law and the Tax Law. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 12 Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 14 Paterson has requested an explanation. 15 Senator Larkin. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 17 this legislation would give employers the option 18 of establishing individual trusts on behalf of 19 their employees that may be used to help to pay 20 for primary health care. 21 These trusts must be used in 22 conjunction with conventional catastrophic 23 insurance coverage. The use of the supplemental 8345 1 accounts have been proven to reduce annual 2 health care costs by as much as 30 percent and 3 as of today that we speak, there are -- eight 4 states have adopted it. Pennsylvania's House 5 did it two weeks ago and we're informed that the 6 Pennsylvania Senate will do it within the next 7 ten days. We have been told that there are 8 major corporations across the country who have 9 put into effect the 35 to 40 percent savings to 10 the corporation and to the employees. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 14 I'll just ask a brief question and then I'll let 15 you recognize Senator Leichter. Senator, if you 16 would yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 18 Larkin, will you yield for a question? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, I will 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 22 Senator yields. 23 Senator Paterson. 8346 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I would 2 imagine that these programs sound very attract 3 ive to the young and the healthy individuals who 4 don't want to go into a managed care program 5 because in those programs their choice of doctor 6 is limited, but how do these -- how do these 7 types of insurance help an individual who is 8 unaware at the time that they obtain the 9 insurance that they are not going to be as 10 successful in protecting them should they incur 11 some catastrophic illness or some long, 12 protracted illness? 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 14 Paterson, in reading the bill and in the memo 15 that we sent out, when you look at the 16 individual account for 2,000 and 4,000 a family, 17 that percentage goes back in and covers them all 18 in the catastrophic because it isn't just an 19 individual account, it also protects them under 20 catastrophic insurance. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 if Senator Larkin would continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8347 1 Larkin, will you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 5 Larkin yields to Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Correct me if 7 I'm wrong, Senator, but I thought that catas 8 trophic illness would require a large deductible 9 and something that demonstrates that the 10 individual insured is actually protected in that 11 particular way, and I just don't understand how 12 this plan can provide the same protection 13 because if it did, then it would seem to me that 14 other plans at which -- incur large sums of 15 payments for it, you know? In other words, 16 that's why the catastrophic plan has high 17 deductibles; this does not. So I just surmise 18 that the whole is equal to the sum of its parts, 19 that there isn't a part in this coverage that is 20 going to add up to give that long-term care. 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator 22 Paterson, in the bill, we've quite clearly 23 delineated that, that in that 2,000, that will 8348 1 be what they will use as their markup for their 2 catastrophic. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll tell you 4 what, Senator. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 8 if you would recognize Senator Leichter, let me 9 take a look at what Senator Larkin is saying. 10 He may well be right. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 12 Chair recognizes Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Senator 14 Larkin, if you would be good enough to yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Larkin, will you yield to a question from 17 Senator Leichter? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: What is the 22 cost to the treasury of the state of New York 23 for this program as you've estimated? 8349 1 SENATOR LARKIN: We figure that 2 there will be none. There has been none in any 3 of the other states that have adopted it so far 4 either. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 6 me see if I can understand that. You give a tax 7 deduction, do you not, to the extent that there 8 is not a deduction under the Internal Revenue 9 Code for that $2,000 that the employer puts into 10 the account for the employee's health insurance. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, first of 12 all, you know that an employer gets 100 percent 13 deductible for buying the health insurance for 14 his own employees, right? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: In some 16 instances, yes. I'm not sure in all instances, 17 but you provide in here -- in there -- and 18 obviously - 19 SENATOR LARKIN: There is a 20 penalty now. If they take that deduction out 21 before like the 31st day of December, they pay a 22 ten percent penalty and that penalty money goes 23 back into the catastrophic fund. 8350 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me draw 2 your -- if you would be good enough to continue. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 4 Leichter -- Senator Larkin, do you continue to 5 yield to Senator Leichter? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me draw 9 your attention to the provision that starts on 10 line 53 on page 2. "The account holder's em 11 ployer may subtract the amount of contribution 12 made by the employer to an individual supple 13 mental insurance account established on the 14 employer's behalf to the extent that the 15 contributions are not deductible under the 16 Internal Revenue Code." 17 Now, obviously you put it in for 18 some purpose, and the purpose is to provide an 19 inducement, an incentive to set up these 20 programs and to the extent that there are 21 already not deductions under the Internal 22 Revenue Code, you want to provide those 23 deductions. You provide those deductions. That 8351 1 means that the employer will be paying less 2 state tax. What's the bottom line for the state 3 of New York? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, we don't 5 figure that there will be any loss as far as 6 we're concerned. We've looked at it. We've 7 looked at it to all the other employers -- right 8 now we have employers in the state of New York 9 through their subsidiaries and other locations 10 are doing it and they're not losing any money. 11 So if they're not losing it in some other 12 location, why would we be losing it? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, let 14 me ask you the ques... 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Larkin, will you continue to yield - 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: -- to 19 Senator Leichter? 20 Senator Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President 22 -- Senator Larkin, if there's no possibility of 23 any tax loss, why did you put that provision in 8352 1 there? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, there's 3 some goings on in Congress right now that we 4 want to make sure that we're in line to protect 5 ourself for now and in the future, because if 6 you're looking at this right now, Senator 7 Leichter, most of the people who will enter into 8 this here insurance business, now most of them 9 are covering their employees under an HMO and 10 already have that deductibility as is. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 12 don't claim to be an expert on tax law. I think 13 the reason that there may already be deduct 14 ibility is because an employer can deduct or - 15 from an employee's salary and income that he 16 pays to the employee, so that's deductible. I 17 assume this is part of the deductibility. Are 18 you making this also tax-free for the employee? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I go back 20 to the same thing. There already is a 21 deductibility for health insurance and this is 22 just a new form of it. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 8353 1 don't believe that there is presently a tax 2 deduction for an employee. In other words, if I 3 take part of my state salary, assuming it's ever 4 paid, but -- maybe you like me have insurance 5 under -- have the Empire Plan, and so on. We 6 don't get a deduction for that. 7 SENATOR LARKIN: The employer - 8 you might have misunderstood me, Senator. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Senator, 10 I -- we've covered the employer. I'm asking now 11 about the employee; whether your bill -- you 12 bill provides any deductibility for the 13 employee. 14 Senator Stachowski calls to my 15 attention that the memorandum -- although I see 16 that's the memorandum, it's not the sponsor's 17 memorandum -- talks of the employee - 18 SENATOR LARKIN: The only 19 deductibility they get is if they take that out 20 and use it for health care, period. If they 21 were to take any of this money out, it would all 22 be taxable. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: So if they 8354 1 leave it in this account to cover for their 2 catastrophic health needs, and so on, the 3 employee gets a deduction? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: No. If the 5 employee takes this out, the ones that are in 6 there, in that account and uses it for anything 7 but health, he must pay a tax on it. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me, 9 Senator. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Plus the 11 penalty. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, right 13 now, the employee, as I understand it, has to 14 pay for any income that he receives. This is 15 income, right? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: But in our 17 proposal as in the other states, the money that 18 he may take out is to cover medical costs. So, 19 therefore, it addresses that issue. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, it 21 must be me, but I must say I find your 22 explanation very difficult to understand. Let 23 me just ask you this simple question. 8355 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, 2 Senator. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 4 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: The amount 7 that the employer puts into this account on 8 behalf of an employee, is that amount in the 9 year that it's put in and where the employee 10 does not withdraw it or make any other use of 11 it, is that deductible to the employee from the 12 employee's income tax? 13 SENATOR LARKIN: It's not counted 14 as income because it stays in that fund. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: He doesn't take 17 it out. He doesn't have access to it. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Well, 19 Senator, in that event, there certainly has to 20 be a loss to the state of New York, because 21 presently if an employee receives a sum of 22 $2,000 and puts it into a -- and puts it into 23 some health insurance, the employee has to pay 8356 1 tax on that. 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I -- I 3 don't know any better way to say it except the 4 fact that this money would be going for health 5 benefits. This is money that would be normally 6 expended on their own health. It isn't going to 7 be a loss because it's something that you don't 8 have out there. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 10 Onorato, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR ONORATO: If I may, the 12 way I kind of equate this with a supplemental 13 annuity. When the employee makes this contrib 14 ution -- the employer makes the contribution, 15 it's in lieu of additional health insurance. If 16 the employee so chooses to use it for health 17 benefits, it is not taxable, but if the employee 18 chooses -- the employee chooses to withdraw it, 19 it's as if he took money out of the bank as 20 income and he would be required to pay a tax on 21 it, but so long as he doesn't use it one way or 22 the other, it remains in the fund and it is not 23 taxable. 8357 1 SENATOR LARKIN: You are right. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 4 Leichter, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: To ask Senator 6 Larkin to continue to yield. 7 I appreciate Senator Onorato's 8 explanation and that's how I understood it, but 9 then without question, Senator, there has to be 10 a tax consequence for the state of New York, 11 because the -- that amount that the employer is 12 going to put away for his employee is going to 13 be considered by the employer in some respect or 14 other as income that he's paying the employee, 15 and that amount, if it were paid to the employee 16 and the employee bought health insurance, the 17 employee would have to pay taxes on it. 18 So now you're going to have a 19 situation where employees will not be buying 20 health insurance because it's going to be done 21 by their employer and they will not be taking 22 this income. They will not be paying tax to the 23 state of New York. There clearly is a tax 8358 1 consequence. That's all I'm trying to 2 establish. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think 4 that, one more time, we have a situation here 5 where we're trying to assist employees and 6 employers to provide funding for health care. 7 If this wasn't done this way, the employees 8 would be paying it directly out of their pocket 9 in some other fashion. That money that they get 10 in the beginning is taxable. This employer is 11 putting in 2,000. He can only put in 2,000 for 12 himself for the first, the second, a maximum of 13 up to $6,000. We don't see any loss of revenue 14 from what we have now. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 17 Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 19 there's no sense Senator Larkin and I dancing 20 around this any longer. 21 Senator, I understand what you're 22 trying to do and maybe there's a public benefit 23 for it, but I think to say that there's no tax 8359 1 loss to the state of New York is just totally 2 wrong. There clearly and absolutely is a tax 3 loss because the employer, by setting up this 4 particular plan, will be avoiding paying taxes. 5 The employee under this particular proposal will 6 not have to pay taxes on the $2,000 that goes 7 into this plan, and that's going to be income. 8 In other words, somebody who 9 makes 60,000, the employer is going to say to 10 the employee, "You know what; I'm going to pay 11 you 58,000, but I'm going to put $2,000 that's 12 going to buy you this health insurance and as to 13 that $2,000, you're not going to be paying 14 taxes. So you're only going to be paying taxes 15 on $58,000 dollars" and there is a tax loss to 16 the state of New York. 17 Now, maybe the state ought to 18 subsidize it or shouldn't subsidize it, but at 19 least we ought to understand what we're doing; 20 we ought to understand the cost, and without 21 having some analysis of what the cost is and 22 whether the state of New York wants to subsidize 23 health care in this way, I would be against it. 8360 1 Yesterday, Senator Larkin, you 2 and other members here were smacking your lips 3 as you were cutting Medicare and health care for 4 a lot of people. Now you turn around today and 5 you're subsidizing health care essentially for 6 people who are better off, people probably who 7 are healthier and I don't understand the 8 rationale, and to say, "Oh, well, this isn't 9 going to cost the state of New York anything", 10 it's just absolutely, totally false. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 12 Larkin. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 14 one more time. I think there's two things we 15 ought to understand here, that this money is not 16 considered income because it is a health 17 benefit. When you start to realize that, you 18 put money aside. 19 Mr. Leichter said, well, the 20 60,000 would take it down to 58-. I think we're 21 trying to make apples into an orchard field. No 22 money put aside by an employer for health 23 insurance is considered income, period. 8361 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 if Senator Larkin would yield for just a couple 5 more questions. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 7 Larkin, will you yield? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mis... Senator 13 Larkin, would employers be setting up a 14 supplemental account for those employees who 15 lose the traditional or managed health care 16 plans? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: No, they would 18 not, Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 22 Larkin, what would the protection be for those 23 employees who lose their traditional health care 8362 1 plan? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, there are 3 cases where they could provide it but there's no 4 requirement that they would have to. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. The - 6 if the Senator would continue to yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 12 Senator continues to yield. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: In passing 14 this bill, Senator, aren't we sending a mixed 15 message along with the other legislation that we 16 are drafting in terms of managed care? In other 17 words, we've got managed care on one hand and we 18 have this on the other. Are we not confusing 19 the residents of the state as to what is the 20 best way to cover themselves under our current 21 health standards? 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I don't - 23 Senator Paterson, I don't believe that. We're 8363 1 offering an alternative. When we start to 2 realize that eight other states have adopted 3 this, a ninth state is in the process of doing 4 it, it quite clearly points out that this is an 5 option that employers and employees collectively 6 can do. 7 When you start to read that 8 Forbes just said that their work rate, their 9 lost time rate for illness had decreased and 10 their total cost was less by 40 percent over the 11 past two years, so it tells you that it has to 12 be working. If it wasn't, I don't think you 13 would have eight states doing it, the ninth one 14 is -- just a month ago, the National 15 Manufacturers Association testified in Congress 16 to address this issue and the issue that affects 17 some states on the tax break. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 19 Paterson. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: United Auto - 21 Mine Workers, by the way, are one of the big 22 participants in this. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 8364 1 Senator Larkin. 2 If Senator Larkin would continue 3 to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 5 Senator, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8 Larkin continues to yield. 9 Senator Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Earlier I 11 asked you a question about catastrophic health 12 care and I think I probably confused you because 13 your bill, as you pointed out in your answer, 14 does -- it does address catastrophic health 15 care, but what I'm really getting at is not that 16 situation where a person would be put in an 17 intensive care unit in a hospital, and it's 18 clear that your bill covers this kind of 19 situation. What about a person that has a 20 protracted, long-term illness, let's say a 21 person, unfortunately, is afflicted with the HIV 22 virus or a person has some kind of neurological 23 disease and they require extensive and 8365 1 continuing medications. So what they're now 2 doing is they're going to have to be laying out 3 large sums of money on a continuing basis for 4 that medication, and what I'm contending, 5 Senator, is it's going to eat up that $2,000 6 that you're talking about, and individuals who 7 can't afford it who never dreamed that this 8 could possibly happen to them because when they 9 originally took the plan they didn't have a 10 problem, they're covered in the long term, they 11 may be all right in the short term because 12 they're healthy, but in this situation where you 13 have a long-term illness, they're not going to 14 have the money and they're going to wind up in a 15 sense as a bad debt and charity insurance. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 17 Paterson, I'll give you a memo so you can share 18 it with Senator Leichter, but in all of the 19 states that we've looked at, when you use up 20 that $2,000, your costs roll over contrary to 21 what -- somebody down on State Street sent a 22 memo to it. When you run that $2,000 over, you 23 automatically convert over into the catastrophic 8366 1 where it picks it all up. 2 This is not something that was 3 dreamed up here. We've looked at it. We've 4 looked at the other states. Some of the points 5 that Senator Leichter brought up, we tightened 6 them up, Senator Leichter. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: I just looked 10 at that section as I promised I would and that's 11 how we got the matter of the catastrophic 12 illness cleared up, but I assure you, I did not 13 see that. I don't see how that long-term 14 illness kicks in. Can you explain to me where 15 in the bill that actually does that? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I 17 don't know how to make it any clearer, but - 18 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: -- all I'm going 20 to say to you is that I have seen it in 21 operation in the other states. I have gone and 22 visited Golden Rule. I have talked to Forbes. 23 I talked to the United Mine Workers and they are 8367 1 clearly - 2 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator, 3 it does pay for prescription drugs. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 5 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR PATERSON: See that's 7 what I'm saying, Senator. You may have seen it 8 in the other states. I'm just asking you to 9 show it to me in the bill. I don't see where it 10 pays for prescription - 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, we 12 think it is in the bill and I think it's very 13 clear. We tell you that when you eat up that 14 $2,000, you'll go into catastrophic and you will 15 be paid for it. 16 Thank you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 on the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 22 Paterson on the bill. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: I think that 8368 1 -- I just would recommend that I'm open to 2 anyone right now to get up and show me where it 3 says in this bill that it will cover prescrip 4 tion drugs. I maintain that it's not there. If 5 there's anybody here or in the sound of my voice 6 who can show me where it exists in this bill, I 7 would really like them to -- to come forward and 8 let me know that, because it's just a concern 9 that we have about individuals and a long-term, 10 protracted illness that, if satisfied, I think a 11 number of us would -- would want to vote for the 12 bill. 13 However, another issue that has 14 been raised by some of the insurance companies 15 is the fact that what we're really doing is 16 setting up a class system of insurance. We are 17 inviting those who are likely to be more healthy 18 over a period of time to opt out into this 19 special plan, and we are actually, in terms of 20 the community rating pool, lowering the caliber 21 of good risks in that pool and making it more 22 difficult on our insurance companies inevitably 23 raising the deductible and causing a problem for 8369 1 those who would be unable to afford the actual 2 deductibles. 3 The whole basis and idea of 4 insurance is that it is a collectivist sort of 5 doctrine that we're all in it and those of us 6 who have need are benefited by those of us who 7 pay a small amount of our salaries and 8 contribute to the pool and it all works out. 9 If we are now going to, in a 10 sense, create a new actuary and opt out into a 11 whole different program, to, in a sense, create 12 a break for those who don't think they're going 13 to have a medical problem and then to, as a 14 state, in many respects, subsidize it, what 15 we're really doing is setting up what is really 16 a publicly funded insurance system for 17 individuals to benefit from, which is what I 18 thought that many individuals in this chamber 19 who I hear every day rail against; and so what 20 we need is at least a uniform standard that we 21 can all abide by, not to ridicule and cajole 22 individuals who, unfortunately, are impoverished 23 or have a need for seeking assistance from the 8370 1 state, all the while at the same time we are 2 putting this into effect in other legislation 3 that would inure to the benefit of those who 4 don't even have such a great need which, I 5 think, is really a greater malady because at 6 least in the former case, we're doing it because 7 we understand that certain individuals need 8 help. 9 And so for the really bifurcated 10 elements of the issue of there not, in my 11 opinion, being any kind of real care for 12 protracted, long-term illness and the fact that 13 we're setting up what is really a duplicate 14 system that benefits some and penalizes others 15 before any of the actuaries going into effect, I 16 can't support this bill. I understand the 17 concept and it's actually merited, but the way 18 it's applied is something that I don't think 19 would be helpful to the residents as a -- in 20 total around the state. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 22 the last section. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 8371 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 2 Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 4 just to explain my vote. 5 I want to say I think this really 6 shows the hypocrisy of the Republican Party, 7 because yesterday you cut health care for poor 8 people. You said this state does not have the 9 money. We can't afford to provide the same 10 degree of health care for poor people as we have 11 in the past; then the next day you come in with 12 a bill that provides a health care subsidy for 13 people who can afford it, people who are 14 employed, people who get a benefit out of taking 15 a $2,000 deduction. 16 Senator Larkin's argument, with 17 all due respect, really was way off the mark 18 from his own bill because there clearly is a tax 19 consequence. There's a tax loss to the state of 20 New York, and I just hope people out there are 21 looking, are listening. I don't expect to find 22 that many here in the LCA, but if you wanted a 23 clearer example of where the Republican Party 8372 1 stands, which is benefits for the wealthy, 2 benefits for the affluent, benefits for the 3 non-urban, just take a look at their action 4 yesterday cutting Medicaid and their action in 5 this bill which provides public support, public 6 subsidy for people to go out and buy insurance, 7 people who have the means to buy insurance, 8 people who at least get the benefit of a $2,000 9 deduction. I'm certainly not going to be part 10 of this charade. 11 I vote in the negative. 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: We 14 haven't read the last section yet, Senator. 15 They're explaining their vote. Can we read the 16 last section, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 18 act shall take effect December 31st. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse 20 me. 21 Senator Abate. 22 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would 23 Senator Larkin yield to a question? I'm just 8373 1 trying to - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 3 Larkin, will you yield to a question? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Senator. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 6 Senator yields to Senator Abate. 7 SENATOR ABATE: I have the 8 philosophy that if we can -- even if it means 9 some tax breaks, we can involve employers and 10 create incentives so that they expand health 11 coverage to employees, that might be a situation 12 where it's merited. 13 My concern is here. Is there - 14 how does this impact on the employer's 15 obligation to provide non-catastrophic insurance 16 coverage to their employees? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Right now, there 18 really isn't an obligation. There -- under this 19 plan, there is a commitment by the employer to 20 his employees. I mean, you have a lot of 21 employees throughout -- employers throughout the 22 state that don't have any health insurance for 23 their employees. We're trying to create 8374 1 something here that is done in other states that 2 has attracted employers to get involved and 3 provide coverage. 4 SENATOR ABATE: Have you found, 5 though, in those other states where this has 6 been passed that those employers are less likely 7 to involve themselves in a managed care health 8 program if they set aside this specialized 9 account? See, my concern is that this will 10 drive employers to offer less health coverage 11 than would be available today if they're so 12 inclined. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: The information 14 that we've received from those that are writing 15 it and those that are involved in it hasn't - 16 has proven to be of greater coverage. The 17 United Mine Workers in West Virginia when they 18 signed on to it, said it provided the best care 19 their employees ever had. 20 SENATOR ABATE: Because they were 21 not offering any care prior to this? 22 SENATOR LARKIN: No, they had the 23 care, but this gave them a better care, better 8375 1 coverage. It allowed them to move from the 2 primary into the eventualities that was cited by 3 by Senator Leichter into the catastrophic 4 without a loss of every bit of their life's 5 earnings. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 7 Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would the 9 Senator yield -- continue to yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 11 Continue to yield, Senator Larkin? The Senator 12 continues to yield. 13 SENATOR ABATE: This $2,000 that 14 would be set aside in an account for an 15 employee, could that be used for primary care, 16 as well as catastrophic care? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it can. 18 SENATOR ABATE: Any purpose? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it can. 20 SENATOR ABATE: Now, once that 21 $2,000 is used up and I become ill and I need 22 medication; I need more intensive doctor's 23 coverage; I need home care, whatever, not as far 8376 1 as hospitalization and the $2,000 is used up, 2 what do I do as an ill employee? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Maybe I ought to 4 take a moment and read line - 5 SENATOR ABATE: That's what I 6 need answered, because that's my major - 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Approved -- here 8 it says that the approved catastrophic plan 9 shall mean a health insurance plan approved by 10 the Superintendent to provide coverage of health 11 care costs incurred due to grievous injury, 12 chronic illness or other major medical expenses 13 which may be reasonably expected to incur costs 14 above those covered by the supplemental 15 insurance account. In other words, when your 16 2,000 is kicked out, you're automatically 17 covered as I just read there. 18 Thank you. 19 SENATOR ABATE: What is -- one 20 more question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 22 Abate. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Can you yield? 8377 1 What is not covered -- when one goes beyond the 2 $2,000, what is not covered by this additional 3 account or this additional coverage? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Routine medical. 5 SENATOR ABATE: Routine medical, 6 diagnostic. Anything else? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Nope. 8 SENATOR ABATE: And preventive. 9 All right. 10 Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 12 the last section. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Dollinger, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President, will Senator Larkin yield to a 19 question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 21 Larkin, will you yield to Senator Dollinger? 22 Senator Larkin will. 23 Senator Dollinger. 8378 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 2 what's the effect -- I believe Senator Paterson 3 may have touched on this. I was listening to it 4 on the speaker. What is the effect of this bill 5 on the community rating system that we put in 6 place in 1992? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 8 Dollinger, it isn't because remember that this 9 proposal is an option. We're not forcing this 10 on anybody. We're not saying you must do this. 11 We're creating something that would be of 12 benefit to the employees and the employers. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you 14 again, Mr. President, if Senator Larkin - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Won't this 18 bill take good risks, young, healthy people who 19 work for employers that can afford these types 20 of accounts and won't it take them out of the 21 general pool of users of broad-based health 22 insurance, such as we provided in the open 23 enrollment and the community rating plan? 8379 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator 2 Dollinger, if you remember if you were here in 3 1992 when we did the community rating - 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was not. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: -- open 6 enrollment, well, at that time we created 7 something and we had a lot of young, healthy 8 people leave. Who are we to say that young, 9 healthy people won't leave? This is not created 10 for young, healthy people. How about the United 11 Mine Workers? How about Forbes? How about 12 Campbell's Soup? That's a good mixed bag. When 13 you say won't it take them out? How do you 14 know? They've left now. The people -- you can 15 get case studies now of young, healthy people 16 leaving, because they didn't feel that the 17 policy covered what they needed or that it was 18 cost-effective. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 20 Mr. President, if Senator Larkin will continue 21 to yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 23 Larkin, will you continue to yield? 8380 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The whole 6 purpose of community rating was to put everybody 7 in the health insurance pool and spread the risk 8 as far as we could so that perhaps the young and 9 the healthy might pay a little bit more but the 10 elderly and the infirm might pay a little bit 11 less, so we would end up with a system in which 12 the total health risk of the community was 13 balanced across the broad base which, quite 14 frankly, is just the system I come from in the 15 home of community rating and managed care in 16 Rochester where we have major employers who have 17 bought into the Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans 18 and we have achieved a system where we have the 19 lowest health insurance cost in the nation, bar 20 none, and my question is the fear that community 21 rating was designed to prevent was the "cherry 22 picking" of good risks by commercial insurers 23 who could take the profitable users of this 8381 1 system who would be willing to pay premiums but 2 have low health care needs and leave only those 3 who have high health care needs and can't afford 4 it in the community-rated system. Isn't that 5 what this bill begins to do is make an exception 6 to that? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, I 8 think, Senator Dollinger, we're going back and 9 digressing a little, about three years ago when 10 we talked about open enrollment/community 11 rating. 12 Two things you want to think 13 about. That pool we like to enlarge and we will 14 enlarge by this for the catastrophic, for that 15 young and healthy that are into this, they're 16 going to be taken care of too. I think that we 17 ought to stop thinking about community rating 18 and open enrollment and the memo that was sent 19 around. This is an opportunity that we are 20 providing in this state. When we can look at 21 eight other states that have done it, the ninth 22 is going to go to it, we're starting to see that 23 it's working. It's providing the care. It's 8382 1 providing the catastrophic coverage, I think 2 that we ought to open it up. Let's put it out 3 there and see. We know. 4 You know, if you have been paying 5 attention to some of the materials, that the 6 open enrollment/community rating hasn't been the 7 success it's wanted to be. Young, healthy 8 people left it. Here's an opportunity for an 9 employer to participate with his employee, to 10 take care of that primary and the catastrophic. 11 Thank you. Read the last 12 section. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I did not 18 pay, I guess, close attention to this bill prior 19 to hearing the debate and I'm now concerned that 20 the community rating plan which, at least in my 21 communities seems to have worked so well, could 22 be subject to the same kind of "cherry picking" 23 problem that drove to us community rating in 8383 1 1992, and I still think that's a good idea. 2 I understand from Senator Larkin 3 that there have been problems with the open 4 enrollment system and it took the transition 5 from the hodgepodge of health care providers to 6 an open enrollment to a community rating system 7 that has experienced some difficulties. 8 It has resulted in an increase in 9 premiums in some of the younger and healthier 10 people, but its overall effect in a long-term 11 phase will be to take the whole health care risk 12 and pass it through everyone and stabilize the 13 premiums much as they have been stabilized in 14 Rochester, New York, where, as I said, we have a 15 completely community-rated system. Our health 16 insurance costs a third less than it is anywhere 17 in this state, and I think about 50 percent less 18 than any place in the nation. 19 So, as a believer in the 20 community-rated system, when you see a bill like 21 this which has a benefit perhaps for a portion 22 of the population that has available funds and 23 low risk, then it's a tempting thing because you 8384 1 could pull yourself out of the community rating 2 system and say, "I can pay even less than the 3 community pool", but the effect of that is that 4 the more people that desert the community pool, 5 the greater the chance that the overall health 6 risk among needy populations will drive those 7 premiums for people on fixed incomes and elderly 8 to too high an acceptable rate. 9 So I'm concerned that this would 10 be seen as a step to move away from a community 11 rated system. I know others in the state don't 12 have my experience with it. It seems to have 13 worked very well. I'm concerned that this is a 14 step away from that. As difficult as the 15 transition to community rating is, it's worth 16 while to get there. Rochester is proof of it. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 20 act shall take effect December 31st. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8385 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 2 Johnson to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 4 I regret that I wasn't here through the entire 5 debate, but some of the discussion I heard on 6 this bill was quite unbelievable, especially 7 from the other side of the aisle who tried to 8 essentially in some respects twist this bill out 9 of context and then say they didn't understand 10 it or they didn't want to understand it. 11 I mean, we talk about HMOs and 12 how this would affect them. HMOs are a new 13 competitive factor which has happened to bring 14 lower cost health care. 15 On the other hand, this community 16 rating, this bail-out of Blue Cross just 17 guaranteed everybody higher rates and, of 18 course, those who stayed in the community rating 19 did so because their rates went down and those 20 rates who doubled got out and they have no 21 protection at all. So obviously there's another 22 need for another competitive factor out here to 23 keep these rates under control and this is the 8386 1 type of bill which can do it. 2 This isn't a bill which says to 3 you -- instead of having a plan which says, you 4 go to the doctor, spend all the money you want, 5 says the first $3,000 out there is yours. Spend 6 it if you like or don't spend it if you don't 7 want to. There's some benefit to you for having 8 that money out there as a member of an employee 9 trust. 10 If there's a company which 11 decides to change from another health plan to 12 this type of health plan, the result would 13 probably be a saving in premiums. It's been 14 demonstrated there's a 40 percent savings of 15 premium with companies that have gone to this 16 type of a plan and the employees are very 17 satisfied by it. 18 This has an additional innovation 19 of letting an individual be in the same position 20 as somebody who works for large corporations 21 where you get your medical coverage free, 22 included. There's no tax implication. By the 23 same token, an individual could be in the same 8387 1 position as an employee to buy his own insurance 2 tax free just as the employer does for other 3 people. 4 It makes sense to me to provide 5 this opportunity to people and broadening the 6 insurance market and putting an innovation which 7 is going to keep costs down. 8 It's a very good bill and it's 9 unrecognized on the other side to be that, but I 10 hope most people understand that this is the way 11 we should go to open up the market. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 13 Results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar 1178 are Senators 16 Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gonzalez, 17 Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago and 18 Smith. Ayes 46, nays 10. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Skelos, if you might give 22 us a minute, we're -- have some equipment 23 changes with the stenographers. 8388 1 Thank you. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Please let us go 6 to Calendar Number 1172, Senate 5117. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: 1172, by Senator 10 Goodman, Senate Print 5117, an act to amend the 11 Election Law, in relation to accessible polling 12 places. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 14 Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 16 Explanation is called for. Senator Goodman. 17 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 18 this is a local bill, sponsored in the Assembly 19 by Assemblyman Sanders, which would authorize 20 the Board of Elections to take action which I 21 can best illustrate with a specific example. 22 In my Senate District the polling 23 place has been moved out of an election district 8389 1 because there is no place accessible to the 2 handicapped within the district. The new 3 polling place is across a very busy main cross 4 town street with a light that gives seniors in 5 sufficient time to cross the street. As a 6 result, many seniors have stopped voting. 7 The core point here is that, 8 where there is a requirement to do everything 9 possible to assist the disabled in voting, we 10 wish to continue to protect the disabled and, in 11 an instance such as this, the way to do it is to 12 have them vote in a contiguous district which is 13 much closer and convenient to them than the one 14 that has to be moved out of the district. 15 It is strictly in the interest of 16 the public in two respects. It helps the 17 disabled, and it helps those seniors in this 18 case who would otherwise have a very 19 inconvenient and inaccessible voting place that 20 they have to go to because it's the only one 21 within the district, albeit very remote, that is 22 accessible to the handicapped. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8390 1 Stachowski. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would 3 Senator Goodman yield for a question? 4 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will, 5 Senator. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 7 will yield. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, is 9 that a situation that is prevalent in the city 10 of New York? Are there a lot of election 11 districts that are having this problem or rather 12 a limited problem? 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: I only know of 14 this one instance. I know of no other specific 15 case that it is such a problem, but it's quite 16 conceivable that it could be. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, 19 Senator. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 21 Onorato is recognized. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 23 Goodman - 8391 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 2 Goodman, will you yield? 3 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will. 4 SENATOR ONORATO: Will you yield? 5 I'm not exactly sure what this will do, but I'm 6 hopeful that it will do something. I have a 7 situation in my district where some of the 8 schools are not handicapped accessible and they 9 close them down for voting and I have different 10 situations where we have disenfranchised a great 11 many of the voters because they had to go to 12 distances much greater in much smaller 13 facilities that could not accommodate them. 14 Now, will this alleviate this 15 problem? Will I be able to reopen that school? 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: It will, 17 however, assuming that there is within the - 18 within the contiguous district a handicapped 19 accessible voting place. It's designed exactly 20 to solve the problem you're talking about. 21 SENATOR ONORATO: In other words, 22 if I had a school nearby - 23 SENATOR GOODMAN: That would be 8392 1 accessible. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: -- that is 3 accessible, would that make it accessible for 4 the handicapped? 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: It gives the 6 Board of Elections the discretion to do it and 7 it would only be done obviously for the 8 handicaps and those who have otherwise long 9 distances to go. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 11 Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Would 13 the sponsor answer just a few questions? 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Goodman yields. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 18 Goodman, I have an instance from my own polling 19 place where the entire election district was 20 sort of displaced, if you will, displaced and 21 sent a long distance because the school where we 22 usually have voted was not handicapped 23 accessible. 8393 1 Does the bill then give the Board 2 of Elections the option setting up an alterna 3 tive polling site for -- specifically for the 4 handicapped other than the handicapped? 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Provided it's 6 in a contiguous, that is, adjoining district. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And then the 8 rest of the polling place does not move? 9 SENATOR GOODMAN: It helps the 10 handicaps and helps the other people who would 11 otherwise have to go long distances because of 12 the provisions. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And the 14 polling place does not have to be closed down, 15 does it? 16 SENATOR GOODMAN: That's 17 correct. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 19 On the bill, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 21 Montgomery, on the bill. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: This is a 23 good bill, and I know the Senator on our side 8394 1 from western New York probably does not 2 understand, but this is a very big problem in 3 the city of New York. I experienced it 4 personally and I've tried to intervene on a 5 number of cases where the polling site has been 6 changed, to the tremendous inconvenience of 7 large numbers of constituents. 8 So I support the legislation. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar 1172 are Senators 19 Libous and Smith. Ayes 54, nays 2. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 21 bill is passed. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8395 1 at this time, would you call up Calendar Number 2 1153, Senate 5336. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: O.K. 4 We're going to read a substitution. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 6 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 7 Assembly Bill Number 8063 and substitute it for 8 the identical Calendar Number 1153. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Move 10 substitution. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 12 Skelos. Substitution is so ordered. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 14 message at the desk? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There 16 is a message of necessity at the desk. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All in 19 favor of accepting the message of necessity 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 8396 1 The message is accepted. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 4 the last section. 5 The Secretary will read the 6 title. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1153, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Print 8063, an act to amend the State 10 Finance Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse 17 me. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could make 19 one correction, I believe we had the message - 20 moved the message before the title was read, so 21 at this time, Mr. President, is there a message 22 at the desk? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Yes, 8397 1 there is. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: All in 4 favor of accepting the message of necessity 5 signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 The message is accepted. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: An explanation 11 has been requested. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 13 Stafford for an explanation. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: We're moving 15 right along, Mr. President, here in this budget 16 process, and you know, I got thinking as I just 17 walked in here, I think this has been mentioned 18 a couple times, but I think this was said 19 sarcastically and I'm not being sarcastic at 20 all. We're doing the Article VII bills of the 21 budget at 2:55 and the sun is out. 22 I don't want to discourage 23 anyone but, on the other hand, I think that's a 8398 1 real plus that we're here doing it in a very 2 sensible hour and, when you came here the other 3 hours, you know and appreciate a sensible 4 hour. 5 This piece of legislation will 6 provide for us the Article VII bills that the 7 Governor has sent to us to implement the budget 8 for 1995 and '96. 9 Now, I could go down and include 10 every single section, but I don't think you 11 would necessarily want me to do that, I'll be 12 glad to. People say no, all right? And another 13 no. But I will be pleased to, on a serious 14 note, answer questions when I have -- after I've 15 completed my short explanation. 16 But much of what I will mention 17 here is just an example of what we are passing 18 and, as I say, there may be some specific areas 19 that you wanted to ask about. 20 I think importantly it was 21 decided that the assets and liabilities of the 22 Office of Rural Affairs be included in the 23 Secretary of State's office. I'm going to have 8399 1 Senator Nozzolio speak in just a moment, and I'm 2 sure he will explain, you know, how we came to 3 that decision. He does not have to. It was a 4 very -- it was a sensible decision. On the 5 other hand, he has some very strong feelings 6 concerning that issue, as many of us did. 7 Also, Mr. President, Love Canal 8 that affects people on all sides of the aisle 9 here is in consideration again, and monies will 10 be provided and the payments will be made, some 11 of the payments will be made to the city of 12 Niagara Falls. 13 Also we have, which is important, 14 it was determined necessary and we authorized 15 the issuance of up to 14 million in certificates 16 of participation to provide funds for the 17 replacing of petroleum storage tanks by OGS at 18 the various state agencies. I know sometimes 19 we've been a bit concerned - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 21 Paterson, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 I want to apologize to Senator Stafford. I just 8400 1 thought it was important that Senator Stafford 2 is trying to explain this piece of legislation 3 and there are some members here that don't have 4 the legislation on their desk. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: I was told - 6 let's make sure that - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 8 Senator, I'm informed that it's at the back of 9 the black binder on each member's desk. 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: The 11 legislation is on the back of the desk, part of 12 the desks. This is something maybe I can be 13 helpful as everyone is getting this. When 14 people say, Do you have every single bill on 15 your desk in Albany, you do, right -- right in 16 front, so that's always interesting for people 17 to know. 18 I don't think enough -- one 19 situation, I could go on and on, but I'll sort 20 of conclude. Here's an example of a clean-up, 21 for instance, the St. Lawrence-Ontario 22 Commission is, in effect, transferred to the Tug 23 Hill Commission, and I think that makes a great 8401 1 deal of sense. 2 A great deal of work went into 3 this. I compliment all who have made it 4 possible, and I will be certainly more pleased 5 to - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Excuse 7 me, Senator Stafford. If I might, the bill 8 that's under debate is Bill Number 5336, if that 9 will help some of the members find their 10 copies. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Right. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 13 you for your indulgence, Senator Stafford. You 14 may proceed with your explanation. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: You do not 16 have to apologize, Mr. President. I was in the 17 process of sitting down. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 19 you, Senator Stafford. 20 Senator Paterson, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 the problem is that over here on some of the 8402 1 bills, the calendar number was marked 1189 and 2 not 1153, which was the calendar number that you 3 have and that's what caused the confusion. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 5 you, Mr. -- Senator Paterson. I appreciate your 6 assistance in resolving it. 7 Please read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 362. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 14 to explain my vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 16 Saland to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 18 during the course of these budget negotiations, 19 there was considerable concern about not only 20 the block grants but the block grants for 21 children's services, but also the language that 22 would effectuate that block grant and there was 23 great concern expressed in many quarters about 8403 1 the lack of flexibility in the language inasmuch 2 as counties were going to be -- find themselves 3 in a situation in which there were less dollars 4 available to them by reason of the block grants 5 and, in fact, flexibility became an imperative 6 for them. 7 There were a series of 8 negotiations that include -- which involved not 9 only both houses and the Governor's office but 10 also NYSAC, the New York State Association of 11 Counties, and NYSAC has provided a letter or a 12 memo which -- in which they express their 13 concerns about the initial proposal and how they 14 are satisfied that the maintenance of effort 15 requirements that are in this bill are 16 satisfactory to them and to their membership 17 inasmuch as they believe that there's language 18 in this bill regarding the waiver of the child 19 preventive maintenance of effort language that 20 is flexible enough provided that the -- that the 21 Commissioner's regulations, in fact, embody that 22 flexibility and if I sound somewhat equivocal 23 that's because the nature of that endorsement 8404 1 seems somewhat equivocal; and let me just 2 suggest to you, Mr. President, that the language 3 -- and I call particular attention to pages 141 4 and 142, which deal with the subject of the 5 waiver, talk in terms of, and here I quote: 6 "The Commissioner may waive or reduce the 7 maintenance of effort requirement for preventive 8 services upon a showing by the local social 9 services district that a substantial change in 10 circumstance results in the maintenance of 11 effort requirement causing a substantial risk of 12 harm to the health and safety of children in the 13 district. The Commissioner shall establish in 14 regulation the standard for showing a 15 substantial risk of harm including the effect 16 the waiver and the reduction of maintenance of 17 effort would have in the delivery of preventive 18 services." 19 Now, NYSAC is satisfied and has 20 stated it in a memo, and I'll read from that 21 memo: "NYSAC supports the revised language on 22 the clear understanding that it includes all the 23 circumstances covered by the original language 8405 1 and more so Commissioner will be able to grant 2 waivers to enable counties to readjust their 3 resources as needed so that the needs of child 4 protective, adoption and foster care are met 5 while still providing an appropriate level of 6 preventive services. NYSAC trusts that this 7 broad and flexible intent will be reflected in 8 the Commissioner's regulations." 9 I merely caution that notwith 10 standing the memo, that NYSAC has provided the 11 memo as referred to as accompanies this bill, 12 the language that is in this particular portion 13 that I just read does not necessarily imply that 14 flexibility, and it's the accompanying memo that 15 provides that flexibility and it certainly 16 remains to be seen whether a court would give 17 the same interpretation were this to be 18 challenged to provide the necessary flexibility 19 that NYSAC seems to feel is here, but if they're 20 comfortable, Mr. President, I certainly am not 21 about to deny them their request that this be 22 enacted, and I certainly will vote in support of 23 this measure. 8406 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 2 Saland -- Senator LaValle is recognized. 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 4 to explain my vote. 5 I would like to begin my remarks 6 by congratulating the -- the Higher Education 7 staff for having worked very, very diligently in 8 making major restorations to the higher 9 education account and in this piece to the 10 student financial aid that so many of our 11 students are dependent on, that maintains New 12 York State as a state that continues its 13 commitment to provide access and choice for its 14 students to attend a post-secondary institution 15 of their choice. 16 Not only were major restorations 17 made for the tuition assistance program, but 18 also for the aid to part-time students and a 19 continuation of awards for graduate students and 20 even a new program that really reworks the 21 supplemental tuition assistance program to 22 ensure that those students who need remediation 23 prior to attending a post-secondary institution 8407 1 will have all that they need to get a good 2 running start on their education. 3 And so what we achieved here was 4 done with a lot of hard work on the part of 5 staff and good firm direction on the part of the 6 members of the Higher Education Committee. 7 So I think we've achieved 8 something here that is very, very positive in 9 maintaining student financial aid and the 10 wherewithal to provide access to our students. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 12 Results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 1153 are 15 Senators Abate, Dollinger, Espada, Hoffmann, 16 Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Oppenheimer, 17 Paterson, Santiago, Smith, and Stachowski. Ayes 18 44, nays 12. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 23 believe there's a privileged resolution at the 8408 1 desk by Senator Abate. I ask that the title be 2 read and the resolution adopted. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Abate: 6 Legislative Resolution paying tribute to Marie 7 Enzerillo, in recognition of her purposeful life 8 and distinguished contribution on behalf of 9 Community Board Number 3 in the borough of 10 Manhattan upon the occasion of a surprise 11 luncheon to be held on June 11th, 1995. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 13 Question is on the resolution. All in favor 14 signify by saying aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 Opposed nay. 17 (There was no response. ) 18 The resolution is passed. 19 Senator Skelos, we have some 20 housekeeping if we may. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 would you recognize Senator Paterson. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 8409 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 I hope I'm recorded as voting in the affirmative 4 on the last bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 6 Paterson, you were recorded in the negative. We 7 will change it, if that is your request. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: I didn't raise 9 my hand unless I was stretching it. 10 Would you please recognize 11 Senator Jones. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 13 Paterson, are you requesting that you be 14 recorded in the affirmative? So directed. 15 Senator Jones. 16 SENATOR JONES: Mr. President, 17 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 18 negative on Senate 5336. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Without 20 objection, Senator Jones will be recorded. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 at this time could we take up Senator Stafford's 8410 1 bill, Calendar Number 1179, Senate 612. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 3 Skelos, may we proceed with our housekeeping 4 first? I apologize. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: I withdraw that 6 request. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank 8 you, Senator Skelos. 9 Senator Rath. 10 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, on 11 page 28, I offer the following amendments to my 12 bill, Calendar Number 895, Senate Print Number 13 2011, and ask that said bill retain its place on 14 the Third Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 16 Amendments received. 17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you. 18 Mr. President, on behalf of 19 Senator DiCarlo, on page 45, I offer the 20 following amendments to Calendar Number 447, 21 Senate Print Number 2419, and ask that said bill 22 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 8411 1 Amendments are received and will retain its 2 place on Third Reading Calendar. 3 Thank you. 4 Senator Skelos. Now, if we may 5 proceed. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 would you call up Senator Stafford's bill, 8 Calendar Number 1179, Senate 612. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1179, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 13 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 14 in relation to the siting of industrial 15 hazardous waste facilities. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 19 Stafford, an explanation has been requested. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 21 I appreciate this bill coming up. We passed the 22 bill last year. I will explain, I think, some 23 very meticulous circumstances, and I think most 8412 1 people will understand. 2 There is a debate whether we 3 should go into the Hudson and dig up the PCBs 4 and put them in a landfill. There are some 5 people who argue, and I'm going to get into some 6 chemistry here, so don't hold me to the 7 exactness but some say that there are materials 8 that you can put in this sludge, leave it in the 9 river and it will, in effect, change the 10 molecules, change the material and you no longer 11 will have PCBs. I believe it's a bacteria. 12 Also they say that you can use it. 13 Studies are being made on this 14 throughout the nation on this because it's a 15 very serious problem because you have industrial 16 areas where we have left PCBs, and I've often 17 said that it's a problem, no question about it, 18 because these mistakes were made by individuals, 19 by communities and by industry. I think 20 together they have to be corrected. 21 Now, the plan was, and I think 22 there is still a plan, but we hope you'll never 23 see it, they were going to dig up all these PCBs 8413 1 in the Hudson, in the Glens Falls-Fort 2 Edward-Hudson Falls area, and they were going to 3 go and dig a landfill and put them right in the 4 middle of a nice dairy country. 5 Now, this really made a lot of 6 sense. We were -- that's right. We were 7 definitely, definitely having a good situation 8 here where people weren't really, in my opinion, 9 thinking it out. Now, people had lived with the 10 problems of PCBs in this area. We've been 11 working on it, but when they were told that they 12 were going to collect them all and then just 13 dump them right here in your beautiful 14 Washington County, in the dairy area where your 15 cows are, where your hay is, where your grass 16 is, you can see that people were concerned. 17 Well, they even decided where 18 they were going to put the landfill, and the 19 landfill was going to be in Fort Edward, and 20 many of us said it's ridiculous to dig up the 21 PCBs out of the Hudson, put them in a barge, 22 take them to Fort Edward and put them in a 23 landfill where they can be PCBs right there in 8414 1 the nice dairy country, and actually - 2 actually, Mr. President, we submit that it did 3 not, and it does not make sense and what we're 4 saying here before and I also want to stress 5 this, there are authorities in the field that 6 explain that a river like the Hudson, you don't 7 dig up the sludge, stir it all up, because the 8 sludge and the PCBs, the first thing we know are 9 going to be down in, I won't mention any city 10 because I wouldn't want you to have these PCBs, 11 but they might even get into the great harbor of 12 New York, and I don't think that's what we want 13 and this is what officials have said. 14 So this bill would state that 15 that landfill would not be in Fort Edward unless 16 it was approved by the officials of Fort 17 Edward. We're now working with a number of 18 officials, but the plan that's in effect, Mr. 19 President, I suggest does and did not make sense 20 and I think the people of Fort Edward have a 21 right to say that they don't want how many -- I 22 haven't got any of my people -- how many 23 millions of tons of this sludge dumped in their 8415 1 town. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 5 Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 this bill may be good politics, but it's 8 terrible law. The Legislature should not give 9 any community this sort of a veto power for the 10 siting of landfills or the siting of hazardous 11 waste facilities, particularly so when, after 12 all the hazardous waste that we're talking about 13 was generated in that particular community. But 14 it's just not something for the Legislature to 15 do. 16 Let me tell you, there isn't a 17 town, a city or within a city or community 18 that's willing to take on any of the onerous 19 facilities, onerous services that are required 20 if this society is going to function and, if you 21 give everybody a veto power, you're never going 22 to be able to put it anywhere in this state. 23 We have a mechanism to make 8416 1 decisions that are going to be difficult for 2 some communities but in the long run have to be 3 made for the benefit of all the people of the 4 state of New York. The county, whether it's the 5 county in this instance or the state, has to 6 decide where that landfill is going to be. I 7 certainly hope they will have local input, but I 8 do not agree that we can allow local veto 9 power. 10 As far as Senator Stafford's 11 ideas whether or not you should dredge up the 12 sludge and the PCBs, there's been a lot of 13 debates about that in the scientific community. 14 There's view -- views both ways. I don't think 15 we have the answer. I don't think Senator 16 Stafford has the definitive answer, but that's 17 really not the issue. 18 The issue is that this town 19 cannot be given veto power and say don't put 20 this in our community, even though it, I believe 21 I'm correct, Senator Stafford, the PCBs came 22 from plants that were located in Fort Edward. 23 We've seen this bill before. I trust we'll see 8417 1 it again next year. It's one of the regurgitat 2 ing bills, but it's worth pointing out the 3 problem that we have with it and why I find it 4 difficult in this instance to support somebody 5 that I very much admire, but I can't support 6 Senator Stafford on this bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 8 the last section. 9 Senator Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 11 President. I don't know if I have an objection 12 to this bill continuing to come up. It's 13 something that the sponsor believes in and so 14 he's going to keep bringing it up, hoping that 15 it becomes law, and those of us who oppose it 16 are going to keep opposing it because we don't 17 think it should become law. 18 I don't think there's a real 19 procedural problem here, but I think that there 20 is a problem with the precedents that the bill 21 sets. 22 Senator Stafford is probably 23 right. It doesn't make any sense to take PCBs 8418 1 out of the river and dump them on a dairy farm 2 which is an uncontaminated portion of land and 3 is one that has a vital use and certainly does 4 not need to be disturbed. But the General 5 Electric Corporation is really responsible for 6 the waste, is talking about leaving the PCBs in 7 the river, just leaving them there, and although 8 some of them have probably entrenched themselves 9 in the bottom of the river and to dig them up 10 might upset the water column by stirring them up 11 again, the fact that it really absolves the 12 corporation of any responsibility to just take 13 the position that the PCBs should be left in the 14 middle of the river. 15 The Environmental Protection 16 Agency and the Department of Environmental 17 Conservation are working jointly to try to find 18 a place to -- to make this clean-up, but I just 19 hope that we are not in the Legislature 20 practicing perhaps the same naive sort of lack 21 of recognition of what a problem really is. 22 The PCBs came out of plants, as 23 Senator Leichter pointed out. They cause cancer 8419 1 in animals. They are hazardous. We can't eat 2 the fish in the Hudson because of them. This is 3 just a menace that is going to continue to grow 4 and although on other pieces of legislation some 5 of my colleagues are fond of saying we want to 6 bring business back into the City, I mean into 7 the state, that may be true, but I'm going to 8 tell you if we contaminate this state much more, 9 there won't be any opportunity for business to 10 flourish, because we will be very well versed in 11 our economic development and dying from the 12 hazardous diseases that are caused by this 13 waste. 14 So I don't really know where the 15 site should actually be, but I think that the 16 enabling of this town of Fort Edward to just 17 reject it out of hand without the environmental 18 impact statement or the classic state overview, 19 I think, opens up to a serious precedent and 20 then we have a battle over who has the greatest 21 political strength in connection with the reject 22 of the hazardous waste dump from coming into 23 their neighborhood. 8420 1 Inevitably what we probably 2 should do is have the same type of benefit 3 packages that we have when we put prisons in 4 their neighborhoods and then the neighborhoods 5 will fight over the facilities, so I think that 6 what we really need to do is take a very strong 7 look at what we're doing to our environment, 8 what we've done to our river and try to work 9 collectively to, as a state, find a way to 10 ameliorate this problem. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Oppenheimer, do you wish to speak? 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. Thank 14 you, Mr. President. 15 This bill, while -- I think 16 Senator Leichter said it was regurgitating. I 17 think what he meant to say is it's regurgitated; 18 it comes back at us each year, so it may be 19 regurgitating too, but there's a problem with 20 this, as I can conceive of no area in the state 21 of New York, indeed probably anywhere, that 22 would say yes, yes, please come and establish a 23 facility within our borders. It's simply not 8421 1 going to happen. 2 We have to find a hazardous waste 3 area. There has been some progress made, I know 4 in the recent months in different ways of 5 capping it, which I think will lead us within 6 the relatively short term to an answer to this 7 problem, but to consider the possibility of a 8 single town saying we will not site it, is just 9 unreasonable, unrealistic, won't happen, and I 10 would like to mention the 18 people last year 11 who voted against this bill. They are Connor, 12 Espada, Galiber, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, 13 Montgomery, Nanula, Ohrenstein isn't here, 14 Onorato, Santiago, Smith, Solomon, Stachowski 15 and Stavisky, and on the other side of the aisle 16 Jess Present and no longer John Daly, but there 17 are a lot of speakers who understand this simply 18 is not a reasonable bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, ever so briefly on the bill. 23 This is an instance, Mr. 8422 1 President, when we give away our power, we may 2 give away our ability to solve the problem. If 3 we tell the town of Fort Edward that they have 4 the ability to veto our choice as an acceptable 5 site, we'll have to give this power to every 6 other community that we ever try to locate 7 anything in, whether it's a solid waste landfill 8 or a hazardous waste landfill or a low level 9 radioactive waste facility or a truck transfer 10 station for the DOT or a highway or an airport 11 or a radio tower. Suddenly we'll have a state 12 which doesn't function like a state, but 13 functions like a little confederation of 14 communities, something akin to the Articles of 15 Confederation which this country once had in 16 place but decided no, we got to wipe that out 17 and have a federal government that has the power 18 to make federal decisions. 19 We have a state that has the 20 power to make state decisions. I think we only 21 balkanize this state if we give to the local 22 communities the ability to say, nope, we don't 23 want to follow the state policy. You've got to 8423 1 come to us first to get our approval. When we 2 give away our power to make those decisions, we 3 will never get it back, and we won't be able to 4 solve the state's problems, whether they be PCBs 5 or anything else. 6 I think that this has some 7 tremendous appeal for local communities, but it 8 makes bad, bad public policy for this state. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 10 Mendez. 11 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 12 for one do believe enormously on the responsi 13 bility that the state of New York and on the 14 citizens as well should have in preserving the 15 environment. After all, we all do know that the 16 planet earth has become a very small place and 17 the rate of pollution that is going on 18 throughout the world, especially in Third World 19 countries where our corporations do go and 20 really practically destroy beautiful areas. 21 Concerning this specific bill, I 22 am going to support it. I'm going to support it 23 because it is about time that the Department of 8424 1 Environmental Conservation starts reviewing its 2 policies so that it would not engage any longer 3 in -- in environmental racism. 4 My district was the recipient of 5 environmental racism and even though every 6 single aspect of the process was followed to the 7 end, the feelings, the real needs pertaining to 8 the health of an area that is heavily populated, 9 that was of no concern whatsoever, and I think, 10 I have the feeling that really, the -- if these 11 agencies would engage in reviewing these poli 12 cies as it relates to people in the different 13 communities, they would have to conclude that 14 they have been very misguided and that those 15 areas and neighborhoods where they perceive the 16 people are weak in political power, they just go 17 on, go there like bulldozers and -- and place 18 whatever facility they want to place. 19 I, for one, feel better by having 20 in this instance the people of Fort Edward have 21 a say in this situation. It's a terrible 22 problem that we're facing with the PCBs and the 23 cleaning of the Hudson River area, but I say 8425 1 that corporations also must be held responsible 2 if they -- if they mess up the environment, Mr. 3 President. They should be forced to pay for 4 the -- for the clean-up, but in this instance, I 5 will be once more supporting this bill. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 1179 are 16 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada, 17 Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, 18 Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago and 19 Stachowski. Ayes 42, nays 14. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 21 bill is passed. 22 Senator Nanula, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR NANULA: Mr. President, 8426 1 I'd like to request unanimous consent to be 2 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 3 1153. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Without 5 objection. 6 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 8 Secretary will read. Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 would you call up my bill, Senate Calendar 11 Number 1182, Senate Number 2259A. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: 1128, by Senator 15 Skelos, Senate Print 2259A, Executive Law, in 16 relation to directing the Division of Criminal 17 Justice Services. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 19 Senator, I believe I heard an explanation 20 requested. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 22 Paterson, did you request an explanation of this 23 bill that is being supported by the League of 8427 1 Women Voters of Westchester? 2 In New York State, Senator 3 Paterson, about 200 women are killed each year 4 by a male partner and an untold number of others 5 commit suicide as a means of escape. Many of 6 these victims have had contact with the legal 7 system. Their cases hold valuable information 8 on where weaknesses lie within the system. 9 This bill will direct DCJS to 10 establish an independent fatality review board 11 to review these cases involving deaths of 12 victims of family offenses. The fatality review 13 board would examine the cases of the victims of 14 domestic violence who had intervention from the 15 criminal justice system which would allow the 16 board to identify where the system or process 17 could be improved to prevent further tragedy. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Will 19 the Secretary please read the last section. 20 Secretary will be happy to read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect July 1st. 8428 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 2 the roll. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 5 bill is passed. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I 9 believe Senator Kuhl has some, Senator Skelos. 10 Senator Kuhl. 11 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 12 President, I wish to call up my bill, Senate 13 Print Number 3909A, recalled from the Assembly, 14 which is now at the deck. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 745, Senate Bill Print Number 3909A, an act in 19 relation to authorizing the city of Elmira, 20 county of Chemung, to transfer a section of 21 Diven Park. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 23 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 8429 1 bill passed the house. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 3 the roll on reconsideration. 4 (The Secretary called the roll on 5 reconsideration.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Offer up the 8 following amendments. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 10 Amendments received. 11 SENATOR KUHL: Also, Mr. 12 President, I wish to call up my bill, Print 13 Number 4218, recalled from the Assembly which is 14 now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218, an act 19 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira, 20 county of Chemung, to transfer park land. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Move to reconsider 22 the vote by which the bill passed the house. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 8430 1 the roll on reconsideration. 2 (The Secretary called the roll on 3 reconsideration. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 6 offer up the following amendments. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 8 Amendments received. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 11 Skelos, we have a substitution. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the 13 substitution. 14 THE SECRETARY: On page 12, 15 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge from the 16 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 7395, 17 and substitute it for the identical Calendar 18 Number 485. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 20 Substitution ordered. 21 Senator Skelos, that completes 22 the calendar. What is your pleasure? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time, 8431 1 there will be an immediate Conference of the 2 Majority in Room 332 of the Capitol and if we 3 could all like run over there, it would be good, 4 and the Senate -- yes, Senator Paterson. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 6 Paterson why do you rise? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: If we could 8 all run over there. That would really be 9 different. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: That means 11 everybody is going to be running. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: But for those 13 who feel they might be revered at a Conference 14 of the Minority in Room 315 - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: There 16 will be an immediate conference, immediate 17 conference of the Majority in Room 332 and - 18 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will 19 stand at ease. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: And 21 there will be an immediate meeting of the 22 Minority in Room 315. The Senate will stand at 23 ease. 8432 1 (Whereupon at 3:35 p.m., the 2 Senate stood at ease.) 3 (Whereupon, at 5:21 p.m., the 4 Senate reconvened.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Senate 6 will come to order. 7 Senator Bruno. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 9 Can we at this time take up Calendar Number 351. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 351, Budget Bill, Senate Print 1553B, an act 14 making appropriations for the support of 15 government. 16 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 17 Is there a message at the desk? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes, 19 Senator Bruno, there is. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we take the 21 message up at this time. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: All in 23 favor of accepting the message of necessity, 8433 1 indicate by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Those opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The message is accepted. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 13 bill is passed. 14 For those who wish to know, that 15 was the Aid to Localities bill. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 18 Senator Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: There seems to 20 be some confusion here. Was the bill that just 21 passed the Aid to Localities? 22 Was there a bill passed? Was it 23 Aid to Localities? 8434 1 Mr. President, would you - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It was 3 Calendar Number 351 on the regular calendar. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President. Could you tell us what the number 6 is? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Just 8 one moment, Senator Dollinger. Senator Leichter 9 had the floor. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Could 11 you give us the title of that bill, please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: "An 13 act making appropriations for the support of 14 government." 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Was that item 16 350? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: That 18 is Calendar Number 351, Senate Print Number 19 1553B. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Was that the 21 local assistance budget? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Yes, 23 it is, Senator. 8435 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I make a 2 motion we reconsider the vote by which the bill 3 passed. I don't think it's a good idea to pass 4 this while most of the members are not in the 5 house. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 8 Senator Bruno. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 10 would like to reconsider the vote on Calendar 11 351. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: On 13 Calendar 351, call the roll on reconsideration. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 351, 15 Budget Bill, Senate Print 1553B, an act making 16 appropriations for the support of government. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 18 bill is laid aside temporarily. It is before 19 the house and laid aside. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 22 Senator Paterson. 23 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 8436 1 the proceedings.) 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 4 Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: If you want, 6 we can call up the bill and have an explanation, 7 as long as - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 9 bill is before the house. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: -- as long as 11 the explanation has, you know - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Are 13 you requesting an explanation, Senator? 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, as long 15 as it's at least a scintilla - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: I'm 17 sorry, Senator, I can't hear you. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: -- of the 19 length that this bill would take to read it; in 20 other words, to allow members to come in. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 23 Senator Bruno. 8437 1 SENATOR BRUNO: It's now 5:30. 2 We have been one hour and 45 minutes in 3 conference or in recess. We have a lot of work 4 to do tonight, and it's time to get on with the 5 work that is before us in this chamber so that 6 we can finish our work at a normal hour. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 8 Chair recognizes the wisdom and the efficacy of 9 the Majority Leader's statement. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Senator Leichter, do you have a 13 comment to make on the bill? The bill is on the 14 floor. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: I do, Mr. 16 President. Thank you, Senator Bruno. 17 I just think it is unfortunate 18 that this bill is being considered while the 19 chamber is really empty, and my purpose in 20 reconsidering the vote was because I know that 21 there are people who have concerns about this 22 bill. 23 It is perfectly true that we have 8438 1 conferenced it for the last hour. That may seem 2 like a lot of time, but this happens to be a 3 very, very large bill. It happens to be of 4 enormous significance to each and every person 5 in the State of New York. I appreciate, Senator 6 Bruno, that you probably have dealt very 7 intimately with all the provisions of this bill 8 and for a long period of time, almost 68 days 9 beyond April 1, and I don't mean to make light 10 of it because I know you have worked hard to get 11 this accomplished as you see appropriate. 12 However, some people saw it in a 13 different fashion, away; but the fact is that 14 this bill again was done, as bills of this 15 nature have been done in past years, in secrecy, 16 and then the bill is brought out. It was 17 brought out two hours ago, and to intimate that 18 people should be ready to vote on it at 5:30 and 19 should be fully familiar with the provisions of 20 the bill is, obviously, on the face of it, an 21 absurd proposition. 22 I could go on at some length. I 23 have expressed my views of this budget. I think 8439 1 it is a disaster. I think this just continues 2 in the same vein. I appreciate that, mainly 3 through the efforts of the Assembly, there have 4 been some restorations so that the pain that's 5 being inflicted on the people of the state has 6 somewhat been mitigated, but there isn't a 7 community in this state that is not going to 8 suffer as a result of this budget and, of 9 course, the centerpiece of this budget, which 10 has driven it and which is, I believe, a 11 colossal mistake, is that multi-year tax cut. 12 I was at a luncheon today with 13 Professor Steve Gold of the Nelson Rockefeller 14 Institute and a professor at SUNY, and probably 15 the nation's biggest and -- or major expert on 16 state finances, and I asked him. I said, 17 "Steve, is there any other state in this nation 18 that presently or at any time has ever had these 19 multiple year tax decreases," and he said, 20 "None." He said, "Some have had two-year tax 21 decreases." He said, "But the only one that 22 ever had a major four-year tax decrease was New 23 York State," and that was in 1986 and we know 8440 1 what a disaster that was. 2 But to have any sort of a tax 3 decrease at a time when our finances are in such 4 disarray is, I think, a terrible mistake and, of 5 course, it reflects itself in failing to provide 6 the assistance and the help and the support that 7 we need to, to people in this state. 8 I'm just going to talk about one 9 area, an area that has concerned me very much, 10 and that is the New York City school aid to 11 education budget, where this city, the real 12 engine of economic growth -- and I know you 13 often hear the word, "engine of economic growth" 14 but it certainly is the city of New York - 15 where we, year after year, get shortchanged in 16 education aid, and this year it is even more so 17 because the city of New York is looking to an 18 increase in school population of approximately 19 25,000 people. 20 Now, the Governor froze school 21 aid. That means, in effect, a significant 22 decrease for the city of New York. There has 23 been some restoration, I believe a total of some 8441 1 $82 million, to account for increased school 2 population. There's also been a change, as I 3 understand it, in the Excellence In Teaching 4 Program, so we now have another program that 5 drives a small amount of additional monies to 6 our schools. 7 But the result is that the city 8 of New York is getting an amount which is not 9 going to account for the increase in school 10 population, and, as a consequence, that 11 percentage, that deficit, if you will, that the 12 city of New York had between the percentage of 13 students and its percentage of school aid is 14 going to grow even greater in relation to other 15 parts of this state. 16 I think we could have done better 17 for the people of the state of New York. We 18 gave them a lot of slogans. They got a lot of 19 slogans in the campaign. Unfortunately, some of 20 these slogans were carried on into this budget, 21 and what we see is a budget that fails the 22 people of the state of New York. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 8442 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 3 President. We certainly concur with the 4 Majority that we have got to and have had to for 5 the last 65 or 66 days move this budget. It's a 6 responsibility that we have to our constituents, 7 the residents of New York City and -- New York 8 State -- excuse me -- and the taxpayers of New 9 York State, the people who provide the broad 10 revenue basis from which government can 11 operate. 12 And we would just like to remind 13 the Majority that we are always willing to begin 14 the sessions when the Majority is, and we have 15 people here who are available if we're just told 16 that we're going to begin a session or come back 17 from recess or whatever it is that we want to do 18 and, as long as that's understood, that it's 19 customary that we have representation from both 20 sides of the aisle, then we can go ahead and 21 move this bill, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Read the last 23 section. 8443 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 9 Results. 10 Negatives, please put up their 11 hands so they can be seen at their seats, 12 please, if possible. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar 351 are Senators Abate, 15 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Markowitz, 16 Nanula, Oppenheimer, Santiago and Stachowski. 17 Ayes 48, nays 10. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 22 Can we call for an immediate meeting of the 23 Finance Committee in Room 332, and that to be 8444 1 followed by an immediate meeting of the Rules 2 Committee in the same room. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 4 Immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in 5 Room 332 to be followed up by the Rules 6 Committee in the same room. 7 Senator Bruno, I'm advised we 8 have some housekeeping motions. May we do that 9 at this time? 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Take up the 11 housekeeping at this time, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 13 Senator DiCarlo. 14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 On my bills, please remove the 17 sponsor stars, Calendars 447, 449, 864. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 19 ordered. 20 SENATOR DiCARLO: On behalf of 21 Senator Rath, please place a sponsor's star on 22 Calendar 1155. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 8445 1 ordered. 2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 3 on page 31, I offer the following amendments to 4 Calendar 933, Senate Print 3875A, on behalf of 5 Senator Nozzolio, and ask that the bill retain 6 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 8 ordered. 9 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 10 I wish to call up a bill, Print Number 3119, 11 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 12 desk. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1041, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3119, an act 17 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 19 Senator DiCarlo. 20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 21 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 22 bill was passed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 8446 1 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 2 (The Secretary called the roll on 3 reconsideration.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 6 bill is before the house. 7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 8 I now offer the following amendments. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 10 Amendments are received. 11 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 12 on behalf of Senator Sears, I wish to call up a 13 bill, Print Number 210C, recalled from the 14 Assembly, which is now at the desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 16 Secretary will read it. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 230, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 210C, an act 19 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 20 disseminating indecent material. 21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 22 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 23 bill was passed. 8447 1 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 7 I now offer the following amendments. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 9 Amendments are received. 10 Senator Smith. 11 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. On page number 22, I offer the 13 following amendments to Calendar Number 763, 14 Senate Print Number 2286A. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 16 Amendments are received. 17 SENATOR SMITH: And I ask that 18 the bill retain its place on the Third Reading 19 Calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: So 21 ordered. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 8448 1 Senator Oppenheimer. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 3 like to vote on Calendar -- what is it? 4 Calendar Number 351. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It's 6 Calendar Number 5 - 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 8 like to be in the affirmative, not - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: It's 10 Calendar Number 350 - 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 351, and I 12 would like to be recorded in the affirmative, 13 not the negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: 15 Senator Oppenheimer is to be recorded in the 16 affirmative. Without objection, so ordered. 17 (Whereupon, there was a pause in 18 the proceedings.) 19 Senator Bruno. Senator Bruno, is 20 it your pleasure to have the body stand at ease 21 awaiting the reports? 22 SENATOR BRUNO: May we at this 23 time stand at ease at this time, Mr. President, 8449 1 awaiting the report of the Finance Committee and 2 Rules Committee, which should be momentarily, 3 five minutes, ten minutes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: The 5 Senate will stand at ease awaiting the reports 6 of the Finance and Rules Committees. 7 (Whereupon, at 5:40 p.m., the 8 Senate was at ease until 5:50 p.m.) 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator 11 Skelos. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: I believe there 13 is a report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 14 Could we please have it read. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 18 from the Committee on Rules reports the 19 following bill directly to third reading: 20 Senate Print 5337, by the 21 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 22 Education Law, in relation to state aid to 23 school districts and post-secondary 8450 1 institutions. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator 3 Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will 5 stand at ease. 6 Before we stand at ease, would 7 you recognize Senator Stavisky. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator 9 Stavisky. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Without 11 objection, on Calendar 351, Aid to Localities, 12 may I be recorded in the negative. 13 Thank you. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Without 15 objection. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Without 17 objection. 18 The Senate will stand at ease. 19 (Whereupon, at 5:55 p.m., the 20 Senate was at until 5:59 p.m.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Senator 22 Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 8451 1 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Did you 2 accept the report of the Rules Committee? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: All 5 those in favor of accepting the report of the 6 Rules Committee, signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 All opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The report is accepted. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please 12 read the title of the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1176, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Print 5337, an act to amend the Education Law, 18 in relation to state aid to school districts and 19 post-secondary institutions. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 21 Is there a message at the desk? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Yes, 23 Senator Skelos, there is. 8452 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept 2 the message. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: All in 4 favor of accepting the message of necessity, 5 signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 All opposed, nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The message is accepted. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill 11 aside temporarily. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT TULLY: Lay the 13 bill aside temporarily. 14 (Whereupon, at 6:01 p.m., the 15 Senate was at ease until 6:10 p.m.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 17 Senate will come to order. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you please 22 call up Calendar Number 1111, by Senator Saland. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 8453 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1111, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5103, an 4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 5 relation to special relief in matrimonial 6 actions. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: May we have a 8 brief explanation? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: An 11 explanation has been asked for. 12 Senator Saland. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Mr. President, this bill is in 16 response to the Hartog decision by the State 17 Court of Appeals. Basically, it endeavors to 18 create a mechanism whereby in a matrimonial 19 action there is, either by way of stipulation or 20 order, a requirement that a party provide life 21 insurance and if that party fails to provide 22 life insurance for the benefit of support or 23 maintenance, this bill would enable the party 8454 1 who had the benefit of the court order or of the 2 situation to file a lien against the estate of 3 the party who failed to provide the insurance as 4 required by order or which was included in a 5 stipulation or a separation agreement as part of 6 the order. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 8 Will Senator Saland yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 10 Senator Solomon, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: I would like to 12 know if Senator Saland will yield to some 13 questions. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 17 Senator Saland yields. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 19 Senator, I have spoken to staff, and I have 20 heard the part about the court -- the parties 21 seeking a lien if they don't provide that. 22 I have a couple of questions 23 regarding this. 8455 1 (A) is, this directs the court 2 actually to grant a lien against the estate if 3 the party can't purchase that insurance policy, 4 so if the party has cancer, the court can now - 5 SENATOR SALAND: Can I ask you to 6 speak into your mike? I'm really having a 7 little bit of a difficult time picking you up. 8 Maybe it's the noise around here. I apologize. 9 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, the 10 bill doesn't specifically say that the party can 11 go into court and seek a lien. It says that the 12 court, in fact, can direct a lien to be placed 13 again the estate. 14 My questions are this. If the 15 party remarries -- life insurance is a product 16 that we purchase and, if you have cancer, it's 17 impossible to purchase life insurance, in many 18 instances, or you have to spend large sums of 19 money because it's an actuarial product -- an 20 actuarially-based product. 21 My question is this: We have the 22 right of election in this state and, in fact, 23 two years ago or four years ago, we passed a law 8456 1 which included life insurance policies within 2 the right of election by our spouse. If a party 3 remarries, will not this affect the right of 4 election of the second spouse? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Let me just 6 backtrack first. There's only one set of 7 circumstances under which this particular bill 8 would become applicable. You have been in 9 court. An order has been entered, based upon 10 the facts and circumstances of your case, 11 directing you to pay support; or you have 12 willingly entered a stipulation or a separation 13 agreement which survives and is not merged in 14 your decree; and, thereafter, you have an 15 obligation, an obligation to provide an 16 insurance policy, an obligation to provide 17 support, whatever the obligation may be, and you 18 choose not to do it. 19 There is no mechanism to enforce 20 that right and obligation under the existing law 21 if that person dies. What this is saying is, 22 you will now have the opportunity to file a lien 23 against the estate. When it comes in to the 8457 1 estate process, what will then happen will be 2 the Surrogate's Court will -- you would have to 3 file a notice of claim. The Surrogate's Court 4 will determine the equities. Which comes first, 5 the obligation which you entered perhaps before 6 you were remarried to provide that support, or 7 the right of election? That would be for the 8 Surrogate's Court to determine. 9 The right of election is not 10 being abandoned or banished. It's basically 11 being juxtaposed with this lien which is going 12 to basically create the obligation that should 13 have been fulfilled and was never fulfilled way 14 back when you were in court or signed that 15 stipulation. 16 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 17 will the Senator yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 19 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 23 Senator yields. 8458 1 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, would 2 this section that's being placed into law 3 prevent an individual from gifting away his 4 entire estate before he passes away? 5 SENATOR SALAND: That's an 6 interesting question. I don't believe that this 7 quite addresses that problem, although I think, 8 in equity, the argument certainly could be 9 raised that the gifting away was with the intent 10 to defraud, and certainly whoever the donee of 11 that gift might find a trust imposed upon it. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 13 if Senator Saland will yield again? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 15 Senator continue to yield? 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, what 18 I'm concerned about is, what you are saying, in 19 effect, if there is a judgment and there's 20 equitable distribution and Spouse A is given 21 $100,000 and Spouse B is given their equitable 22 share and Spouse A then finds out he or she has 23 cancer and can not purchase that insurance 8459 1 policy, that equitable share that Spouse A 2 received could technically have an additional 3 freeze put on it and they can't transfer it and 4 use that asset as an individual. 5 SENATOR SALAND: No. What I'm 6 saying is, in that case, that your individual, 7 if they want to comply with whatever the 8 obligation of either the separation agreement or 9 stipulations or court order that renders that 10 requirement, they can purchase an annuity. They 11 don't merely have to go into the insurance 12 market. If they want to abide by the obligation 13 imposed upon them, they can do that without 14 jeopardizing any other person to whom they might 15 want to make a gift or any other person who 16 might get the benefit of their estate. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator 18 continue to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 20 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 8460 1 Senator continues to yield. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: Is there any 3 other instance that you are aware of where the 4 courts can generally provide a lien, a future 5 lien, against an estate before someone has 6 passed away? In effect, this is a lien before 7 someone has passed away. 8 SENATOR SALAND: I can't tell you 9 that I am aware. I'm not aware. I do not 10 know. There may or may not be but, again, this 11 person who -- whose well-being you're concerned 12 with is a person who, number one, has been 13 involved in an action; number two, as a result 14 of that action, that litigation, he or she has 15 been required by the court to make certain 16 payments or to commit to providing an insurance 17 policy. 18 In the alternative, that person 19 has entered a written agreement, either by way 20 of stipulation or a separation agreement, saying 21 that they would do that very thing, and people 22 relied upon that as part of that agreement. 23 Why in the world should that 8461 1 person who voluntarily either made that decision 2 or a court balancing the equities arrived at 3 that decision -- why should that person not be 4 bound by either the decision or the stipulation 5 when we are talking about support, particularly 6 when it's support of children that you helped 7 bring into this world? 8 SENATOR SOLOMON: On the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 10 Senator Solomon, on the bill. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: I think that, 12 when you listen to some of the statements 13 Senator Saland is making, yes, it sounds like 14 it's very fair, but the case that arose out of 15 this, the individual had prostate cancer. It 16 wasn't something that he went out and said, 17 "Well, I've got prostate cancer. Now I don't 18 have to fulfill the obligations for child 19 support." 20 I'm sure it's something he didn't 21 seek. I'm sure anyone in this situation didn't 22 go out and seek to get ill enough so that they 23 couldn't purchase insurance. 8462 1 But what concerns me is if this 2 person had never been involved in a separation 3 agreement and/or a divorce, he still wouldn't be 4 able to purchase that insurance product and 5 there's not going to be a lien against that 6 estate, and we're getting into a situation where 7 what we are doing is creating -- we're trying to 8 solve one piece of litigation, and we're going 9 to create additional litigation because, surely, 10 we're going to have situations where there are 11 additional spouses -- or second spouses, and 12 that question is going to come before the 13 Surrogate's Court: "How come you have a right 14 to affect my right of election?" 15 And what really concerns me is 16 some of the hidden -- some of the possible 17 interpretations of this. Is the next step to 18 freeze one's assets because one is unfortunate 19 enough to have become ill? 20 We changed the law on insurance 21 policies last year or in the last two years, 22 where you can now buy policies, and insurance 23 companies can pay those policies to you before 8463 1 you die when you are terminally ill so you can 2 pay medical bills, and that individual that 3 becomes extremely sick may want to use some of 4 that money to pay medical bills. 5 I'm worried we're getting down a 6 course here -- in fact, proceeding down a course 7 where that individual, in fact, may not have 8 health insurance because it's difficult to 9 purchase health insurance if you are terminally 10 ill, and may want to use some of his assets to 11 pay his medical bills. 12 Now, I'm just warning everyone in 13 this Legislature we're trying to resolve one 14 problem, but, in fact, we could be creating 15 other problems which, in fact, could be very 16 inequitable. We could, in fact, be denying 17 someone who is terminally ill the dollars which 18 they have in their liquid assets, which they 19 were awarded under equitable distribution, to 20 pay for medical bills, let alone the situation 21 that's going to happen vis-a-vis the second 22 spouse, if there is a second spouse, regarding 23 the right of election. 8464 1 That problem about medical bills 2 was something that was done two years ago to 3 allow insurance companies to pay an individual a 4 portion of that life insurance when he was 5 terminally ill, so he could use it for 6 additional medical bills, or whatever, before he 7 dies or she dies. 8 I'm just urging everyone to take 9 a second look at bills such as this and other 10 things and what we're doing; and, in fact, we 11 could have a real adverse impact in certain 12 situations, and I'm sure we're going to have 13 additional litigation as a result of this piece 14 of legislation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 23 Announce the results. 8465 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 2 Senator Solomon recorded in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 4 bill is passed. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 will you call up Calendar Number 1176, Senate 8 5337. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1176, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 13 Bill 5337, an act to amend the Education Law, in 14 relation to state aid to school districts and 15 post-secondary institutions. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 17 the last section. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, may we have a brief explanation to 20 make sure we got the right bill? This is the 21 language bill that goes with the school aid; is 22 that correct? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 8466 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just for a 4 brief explanation to make sure I have the right 5 bill in my hand. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 8 Senator Tully. 9 SENATOR TULLY: This is the 10 Article 7 bill dealing with aid to education. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 140. 16 This act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 21 Announce the results. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 23 to explain my vote. 8467 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Senator Stavisky, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Not all parts 4 of the state of New York are equally situated 5 with regard to needs, with regard to pupils, 6 with regard to wealth or lack of resources. 7 Accordingly, it's important to note when there 8 are new students, additional numbers of 9 students, entering a school district who are not 10 provided for with sufficient resources in order 11 to carry out educational programs, I think there 12 is an injustice here. 13 Not only does the formula, as 14 always, fail to consider the special needs of 15 urban areas, such as the city of New York, with 16 regard to education but even the increase in the 17 number of pupils is not recognized adequately. 18 There are new children coming into the school 19 system in New York City. Many come in with 20 special handicapping conditions, not only 21 physical and emotional handicapping conditions 22 but limited English proficiency where, through 23 no fault of their own, they came from parts of 8468 1 the world which were not English-speaking, so 2 they have to overcome that difficulty and they 3 have to overcome, in many cases, poverty and 4 dysfunctional family relationships. 5 Accordingly, I would have 6 expected, and I think any fair person would have 7 expected that the school aid portion would at 8 least give to the city of New York in terms of 9 the admittedly imperfect school aid formula, 10 recognition for all of the additional pupils 11 that are entering that system, and yet, while 12 there is a partial recognition of that fact, the 13 city of New York is capped in the reimbursement 14 that it receives for new additional pupils, and 15 that is a double injustice. 16 It is an injustice that, in many 17 respects, starts with Washington, D.C., with the 18 House of Representatives. It is perpetuated in 19 the budget that was submitted by the Governor of 20 this state, and, in some respects, it is 21 reflected in the already limited resources 22 available to the city of New York through the 23 funding that is provided at City Hall. 8469 1 I don't think we should be a 2 participant to this kind of discrimination 3 against children who are coming into our 4 system. We want them to be educated, we want 5 them to become productive members of society, 6 and we are not doing that with this 7 legislation. 8 For that reason, I wish to be 9 recorded in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 11 Senator Stavisky in the negative. Announce the 12 results. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: I would just 14 like to explain my vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 16 Senator Stafford. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Not that it's 18 that important, but this is the first time in 30 19 years I've explained my vote, but I can't 20 believe that my learned colleague from that 21 great city, Queens -- of Queens - 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: (Comments 23 inaudible.) 8470 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: No, not 2 "queen." 3 And then who had the honor and 4 did that great job as Chairman of Education in 5 the Assembly would say here this evening, first, 6 that the aid is capped. It is not. 7 I will make that clear. It is 8 not capped. So I make that very clear, and I 9 would also point out that New York City gets the 10 growth aid of last year and gets growth aid for 11 this year, a combination. So I'm sure we want 12 to have the record straight. 13 And I think this is a piece of 14 legislation -- there is no question that some 15 people, some of us, some members, some Senators, 16 others, would like to see things that aren't 17 here, possibly would like to see things not here 18 that are here, but that is the way, and under 19 the circumstances of this year, I would suggest 20 that this is an excellent document. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8471 1 the negative on Calendar 1176 are Senators 2 Abate, Dollinger, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, 3 Nanula, Smith, Stachowski, and Stavisky. Ayes 4 49, nays 9. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 the Senate will stand at ease until 7:45 sharp. 10 Is there any housekeeping at the 11 desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 13 Senator Farley. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 15 myself, I would like to amend this bill. On 16 page 31, I offer the following amendments to 17 Calendar -- that's page 34, Calendar Number 987, 18 Senate Print 4580, and I ask that that bill 19 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 21 Amendments received and adopted. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate will 8472 1 stand at ease until 7:45 p.m. sharp. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 3 Senate will stand at ease until 7:45 sharp. 4 (Whereupon, at 6:30 p.m., the 5 Senate recessed.) 6 (The Senate reconvened at 8:13 7 p.m., for the following announcement.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senate will come to order. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 12 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 13 332 of the Capitol. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 There will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 16 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 17 (Whereupon, at 8:13 p.m., the 18 Senate was at ease until 8:35 p.m.) 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 21 will come to order. 22 The Chair recognizes Senator 23 Skelos. 8473 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 2 Could we return to reports of standing 3 committees. I believe there is a report of the 4 Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be 5 read. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 7 return to reports of standing committees. I ask 8 the Secretary to read the report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 11 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 12 following bills: 13 Senate Print 2854, by Senator 14 Solomon, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 15 and Rules, in relation to fees for referees; 16 1622, by Senator Lack, an act to 17 amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to 18 assessments; 19 1674, by Senator Stafford, an act 20 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to 21 ovarian cancer; 22 2511, by Senator Hannon, an act 23 to amend the General Municipal Law and the State 8474 1 Finance Law, in relation to the release of 2 payments; 3 2721, by Senator DiCarlo, an act 4 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 5 to payment of taxes; 6 2782, by Senator Larkin, an act 7 to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law, and 8 the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to 9 denying driving privileges; 10 2785, by Senator Babbush, an act 11 authorizing the City of New York to reconvey its 12 interest in certain real property; 13 3247, by Senator Paterson, an act 14 to authorize the City of New York to release its 15 interest in and to reconvey to its former owner 16 certain real property; 17 3663A, by Senator Velella, an act 18 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 19 provisions for motor vehicle insurance rates; 20 3817A, by Senator Velella, an act 21 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 22 extending the expiration date for Article 54; 23 3853A, by Senator Leibell, an act 8475 1 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 2 to the powers of the State of New York Mortgage 3 Agency; 4 3954, by Senator Velella, an act 5 to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle and 6 Traffic Law, in relation to licensing of auto 7 repair body estimators; 8 4287, by Senator Spano, an act to 9 amend the Local Finance Law, in relation to 10 bonds issued by act of the Westchester County 11 Board of Legislators; 12 4356, by Senator Tully, an act to 13 amend the Public Health Law in relation to the 14 New York State Innovation in Breast Cancer Early 15 Detection And Research Awards Program; 16 4671, by Senator Trunzo, an act 17 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 18 to clarifying the status of employees; 19 5177, by Senator Leibell, an act 20 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 21 to the rehabilitation of certain multiple 22 dwellings; 23 5239, by Senator Hannon, an act 8476 1 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to 2 utilization review agents; 3 5249, by Senator Stafford, an act 4 to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm 5 certain acts and proceedings of the Town Board, 6 Planning Board, Zoning Board of Appeals and 7 certain agents and employees of the town of 8 Kingsbury; 9 5254, by Senator Seward, an act 10 to amend the Real Property Law, in relation to 11 mobile home parks; 12 5264, by Senator Padavan, an act 13 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 14 possession of gambling devices; 15 5271, by Senator Maltese, an act 16 to amend the Election Law, in relation to write 17 in voting at primary elections; 18 5356, by Senator Hoblock, an act 19 to amend the Public Officers Law and the 20 Executive law, in relation to activities by 21 former state officers and employees; 22 All bills ordered directly for 23 third reading. 8477 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 If we can take up Supplemental Calendar Number 5 2, noncontroversial. 6 I'm sorry. First, we have to 7 move to accept the Rules report. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 motion is to accept the Rules report. 10 All those in favor, signify by 11 saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The Rules report is accepted. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: If we can take 18 up the Rules report, Supplemental Calendar 19 Number 2, noncontroversial. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will call the noncontroversial calendar for 22 Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8478 1 1189, by Senator Solomon, Senate Print 2854, an 2 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 3 in relation to fees for referees. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1190, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1622, an act 16 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 17 to assessments resulting from a small claim 18 proceeding. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1191, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1674. 8479 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1192, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2511, an 6 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the 7 State Finance Law, in relation to the release of 8 payments. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo 13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Local 14 Government Assembly Bill Number 1473 and 15 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 16 1193. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 19 the title. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1193, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg, 23 Assembly Print 1473, an act to amend the Real 8480 1 Property Tax Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1194, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2782, an 6 act to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law 7 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to 8 denying driving privileges. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush 13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 14 Assembly Bill Number 4675 and substitute it for 15 the identical Calendar Number 1195. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 18 the title of Calendar Number 1195. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1195, by Member of the Assembly Perry, Assembly 21 Print 4675, an act authorizing the City of New 22 York to reconvey its interest in certain real 23 property. 8481 1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 3 a home rule message at the desk. The bill will 4 be laid aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1196, by Senator Paterson. 7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 11 1197, by Senator Velella. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 13 aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1198, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3817A. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 19 aside. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 21 the day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside for the day. 8482 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1199, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3853A, an 3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 5 aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is high. Lay the bill aside for the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1200, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3954, an 10 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle 11 and Traffic Law. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 13 aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1201, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 4287, an 18 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation 19 to bonds issued by act of the Westchester County 20 Board of Legislators. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 22 aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8483 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1202, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4356, an 4 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 5 to the New York State Innovation in Breast 6 Cancer Early Detection and Research Awards 7 Program. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 9 aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: 1203, by Senator 13 Trunzo, Senate Print 4671, an act to amend the 14 Public Authorities Law, in relation to 15 clarifying the status of employees. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 17 aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1204, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5177, an 22 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 23 relation to the rehabilitation of certain 8484 1 multiple dwellings. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1205, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5239, an 7 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 8 to utilization review agents. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 10 aside, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1206, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5249, an 15 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm 16 certain acts. 17 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1207, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5254, an 22 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation 23 to mobile home parks. 8485 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 2 aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1208, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5264, an 7 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 8 possession of gambling devices. 9 SENATOR KRUGER: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 11 high. Lay the bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1209, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5271, an 14 act to amend the Election Law. 15 SENATOR KRUGER: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is high. Lay the bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1210, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 5356, an 20 act to amend the Public Officers Law and the 21 Executive law. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8486 1 Skelos, we have a message of necessity at the 2 desk on Calendar Number 1210. 3 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Move we accept 5 the message. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 7 to accept the message of necessity. 8 All those in favor, signify by 9 saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed, nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message is accepted. 14 Lay the bill aside. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 17 If we could take up the controversial calendar 18 now. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the controversial calendar commencing 21 with Calendar Number 1190. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8487 1 1190, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 1622, an act 2 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 3 to assessments resulting from a small claim 4 proceeding. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Lack, an explanation of Calendar Number 1190 has 7 been asked for by the Acting Minority Leader, 8 Senator Paterson, and I believe a couple of 9 other members. 10 Senator Lack to provide an 11 explanation. 12 SENATOR LACK: Right. Mr. 13 President, this bill would end the anomaly if a 14 taxpayer receives a higher assessment in the 15 year immediately following a successful tax 16 grievance -- the finality is necessary to 17 establish the assessment base, and any challenge 18 to the assessment applies only to the assessment 19 established for a given tax year, and this bill 20 over a three-year cycle would even everything 21 out. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson. 8488 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 2 would Senator Lack yield for a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Lack, do you yield? 5 SENATOR LACK: Certainly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Lack, 9 I think I just didn't happen to hear the last 10 part of what you were saying. You said it ends 11 the anomaly that's existed in the past. I'm 12 just trying to figure out what has existed in 13 the past. 14 SENATOR LACK: Well, if the 15 assessment is reduced, the determination will 16 not be entered until after the taxable status 17 for the taxable year that's challenged. The 18 reduced assessment will also be effective for 19 the first assessment roll subsequent to the 20 challenged assessment roll. 21 The tax system and the procedures 22 to challenge the tax assessments are unique, 23 Senator, in that they are tied directly to the 8489 1 annual budget process for local municipalities. 2 Because of this annual cycle and to establish 3 tax record finality, it is necessary to 4 establish the assessment base. 5 The problem that develops stems 6 from the failure of the court to schedule 7 assessment hearings to the present tax year 8 before the tentative assessment roll is 9 completed for the following tax year. 10 For example, in the town of 11 Smithtown, 120 taxpayers failed to have their 12 1992-93 tax hearings until after May 1st, 1993. 13 They then receive a reduction in their '92 -- in 14 their '93 assessment, but the reduction was not 15 subsequently reflected onto their '93-94 tax 16 bill. This bill rectifies that problem and 17 allows it to go back to the tax roll that was 18 affected. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: So in other 20 words, you are covering for - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Lack, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR LACK: I continue to 8490 1 yield, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: So you are 5 actually making up for the period of time dating 6 back from the most recent filing to the time 7 where the discrepancy actually occurred, which 8 could be somewhere up to three years. 9 SENATOR LACK: That's correct, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. So 14 then, in other words, a tax assessment for one 15 year would never throw the whole cycle out of 16 balance. If you can go back three years, you 17 are going to cover any type of activity that 18 occurred relative to the -- either -- the 19 challenge to the actual assessment? 20 SENATOR LACK: That's correct, 21 Mr. President. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, 23 Senator. Thank you very much. 8491 1 SENATOR LACK: You're welcome. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 3 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have a few 5 questions, Mr. President, to the sponsor. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Lack, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just so I 10 understand this, Mr. Chairman, how does this 11 make up for the lost revenue that would occur 12 when the assessment roll is changed? I assume 13 that the town or the community has already made 14 its planning based on a certain amount of 15 assessed valuation. If there's a reduction in 16 the total assessed valuation, that would 17 theoretically drive the property tax rate up for 18 other properties to make up for the shortfall in 19 revenue. 20 Can you just explain to me how 21 that works? 22 SENATOR LACK: It doesn't. Mr. 23 President, it doesn't. It's not designed to. 8492 1 It's designed to help the taxpayer, not the 2 municipality. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So 4 what does the municipality do for the loss of 5 revenue that's occasioned upon the reduction in 6 assessments to a particular taxpayer? 7 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 8 One would hope the municipality would spend 9 less, I mean if it really comes down to that. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again, 11 through you, Mr. President. If there were 12 $10 million in the budget, they calculate what 13 they need on a property tax rate based - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- on a 17 certain valuation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger, excuse me just a minute. Senator 20 Lack, I notice, is having a difficult time 21 hearing you. It is very noisy in the chamber. 22 So if members want to have a conversation 23 amongst themselves, I would ask that they take 8493 1 their conversations out of the chamber; and if 2 staff feel the necessity for having a 3 conversation, please take it out of the 4 chamber. Have a lot of bills to do, a lot of 5 work yet to do, a lot of conversation yet to be 6 had. 7 Thank you, Senator Dollinger, for 8 the interruption. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 I just want to understand. How 12 does the community make up for the shortfall in 13 revenue if the assessment roll is already 14 established and the tax rate is already 15 established, as well? 16 SENATOR LACK: I don't think it 17 will, Senator Dollinger. It depends upon the 18 impact in any particular locality, but that 19 impact shouldn't be made off of the backs of the 20 taxpayer who has legally and correctly - 21 correctly challenged and won a reassessment of 22 whatever his or her assessment is for that 23 period, and not to get the refund or the 8494 1 reassessment base back on the tax year for which 2 the locality has collected the money is wrong 3 for the taxpayer. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section, please. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1191, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 1674, an 18 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 19 to ovarian cancer. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 1191 23 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 8495 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. This bill concerns a disease that I 3 know something about. I assure you that it was 4 not of my own making, or it wasn't my choice. 5 This bill will provide for the dissemination of 6 material concerning ovarian cancer. 7 There are many things about this 8 disease that are important to know, and I do not 9 say to you that I'm an authority; but, as I say, 10 I have been exposed. Early detection -- no 11 matter who you talk with about this disease - 12 that's one of the reasons we should have 13 physicals at least once a year, as some will 14 say, "whether we need it or not." 15 I suggest we need it. I think 16 this is something that is extremely worthwhile. 17 It is provided for in the budget, and this 18 legislation will implement what has been 19 provided for in the budget. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 23 Senator Stafford. 8496 1 Mr. President, on the bill. 2 That explanation was quite 3 satisfactory. Senator Stafford has waged quite 4 a war on this issue, legislatively in this 5 chamber and also personally. I know that all 6 the members of the chamber and staff members and 7 his friends, like myself, admire him for the 8 work that he has done on the issue, and this is 9 a fine bill. 10 I was going to ask a question 11 about fiscal impact, but when you realize the 12 value of early detection, as Senator Stafford 13 just said, there really -- whatever the fiscal 14 impact is, it can't, in any way, be too much to 15 spend on something that can prolong and allow 16 life to flourish. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One question 19 to Senator Stafford. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8497 1 yields. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, just 3 an unusual term that I hadn't heard before. On 4 page 2, line 19, it says, "All female patients 5 in the 40 and above age cohort." What does that 6 mean, "above age cohort"? It's an unusual term 7 to use there. It's just a drafting question. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: What line, 9 please? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Line 19. It 11 uses the term "cohort," and I just ask you what 12 that means there. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: First, I 14 compliment you for reading the bill well. 15 I can be stumped very easily. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was. 17 That's why I ask. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: I always lose 19 when I play whatever game it is that tests your 20 vocabulary. 21 Well, I say this -- category, I 22 say. Category. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's fine. 8498 1 I just didn't see the term before. 2 No further questions, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 5 last section, please. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the first day of 8 January. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1192, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 2511, an 17 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the 18 State Finance Law, in, relation to the release 19 of payments. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 22 Senator Hannon, an explanation has been 23 requested by Senator Paterson. 8499 1 SENATOR HANNON: This legislation 2 is designed to ensure that when payments are 3 made on a municipal contract and there are 4 subcontractors whose subcontracts are above 5 $25,000 that the payments shall be made in 6 regular order as soon as they have been 7 certified to the subcontractors. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Read 9 the last section. 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: If the sponsor 12 will yield for a question? 13 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, is 18 there a time limit on this? 19 SENATOR HANNON: No. It's a 20 functional time limit because municipal 21 contracts or state contracts there will be 22 periodic payments made and so that, instead of 23 putting an absolute time payment, it talks about 8500 1 a formula, so that as soon as each of the line 2 items are certified by the owner as being 3 completed, then there will be a payment 4 relatively promptly to the subcontractor. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: My question, 6 if Senator will continue to yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 8 Senator Hannon, do you continue to yield? 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, do 11 you think that the certification, the fact that 12 it is in the bill, is, in a sense, a de facto 13 time limit of and in itself, meaning that the 14 subcontractor will not be paid almost 15 automatically based on the fact that we have now 16 codified this whereas, in other situations, the 17 subcontractor might have been paid immediately? 18 SENATOR HANNON: No. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Just no? 20 SENATOR HANNON: No, I don't 21 think so. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay, "No." 23 Thank you. 8501 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Chairman. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 3 Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the 5 sponsor yield for just a question? 6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Senator Hannon, 7 do you yield? 8 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The way I 12 understand this bill, Mr. Chairman, is that the 13 -- the owner would be required upon 14 certification from the subcontractor to pay the 15 retainage according to the subcontractor's line 16 item. 17 My question is, my understanding 18 of most retainage accounts held with respect to 19 subcontractors or with respect to general 20 contractors for the owner, the owner holds the 21 retainage on the whole deal not just on a line 22 item, and I have -- in my personal experience, 23 I've seen very few subcontractor agreements in 8502 1 which there is a specific amount of the 2 retainage applied to a line item in the 3 contract. The retainage is usually held as the 4 big club at the end. 5 And so my question is what 6 evidence do you have that retainage is now held 7 in specific line items for subcontractors as 8 suggested on page 2, lines 9 through 13, in the 9 bill? 10 SENATOR HANNON: The various 11 information supplied to me by the subcontractors 12 in this state, by subcontractors in different 13 parts of the state, Tonawanda, Dutchess and 14 Ulster, Capital District here, Capital District 15 again. Those would be the indications that I 16 have that it's being done and I would presume 17 that, unless it was being done, they wouldn't 18 see the need to offer it. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the 20 bill briefly, Mr. President. 21 I'm going to vote in favor of 22 this. I think it's a good idea. I'm not 23 convinced -- and I appreciate the chairman of 8503 1 the Health Committee giving me that information, 2 but my understanding, at least in the practice 3 in my part of the state, is that the retainage 4 account is held as a big tool, the big hammer, 5 that gets the subcontractor or the general 6 contractor to perform all the terms of the 7 contract, and they're not usually divided into 8 line item -- line item portions for the 9 retainage account. 10 So I think it's a good idea, but 11 the problem must not have come as far as Western 12 New York yet. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 14 Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 16 President. I have one last question for Senator 17 Hannon if it's - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 19 Senator Hannon, do you yield? 20 Senator Hannon yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 22 Hannon, the merit of this bill is undoubted, and 23 I'm going to vote for this bill. Generally, 8504 1 what the subcontractors, I guess, are probably 2 trying to do is they want to get paid at the 3 rate that the general contractors are, and 4 that's fine. The subcontractors traditionally 5 were paid at the end of the job; and, here, what 6 we would be doing is we'd be making it possible 7 for them to be paid sooner. 8 All I'm asking is, wouldn't this 9 accrue a great deal more responsibility on the 10 state, when we look at the fact that the state 11 is going to have to issue a lot more checks, 12 there's going to be a lot more paperwork; and if 13 there is a dispute between the contractor and 14 the subcontractor, then the state is basically 15 involved in the dispute even though the state is 16 not a party to the dispute? 17 SENATOR HANNON: I really don't 18 think so. The current nature is that there is 19 to a fair extent an excess withholding and 20 there's already the dispute. There will be 21 already questions of liens being filed by the 22 subcontractors who, despite their name as 23 subcontractors, are not necessarily the small 8505 1 corporations or partnerships or entities that we 2 may think of as, you know, doing work in a 3 house. These are some major steel suppliers and 4 different major trades. 5 So there's already probably an 6 inordinate amount of paperwork and litigation 7 connected with any big project. I think this 8 would just substitute one part of it for another 9 and work some fairness that's not there now. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, Mr. 11 President. That very well clears up the 12 confusion. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DICARLO: The 23 bill is passed. 8506 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1193, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg, 3 Assembly Print 1473, an act to amend the Real 4 Property Tax Law, in relation to payment of 5 taxes in installments. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 7 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 8 This bill is to provide low-income elderly with 9 the relief from rising real property taxes. 10 What happens now, if you are on SSI and your 11 income, your money in the bank is over a certain 12 amount, you become ineligible for SSI. What 13 this bill allows local governments to do is to 14 allow those individuals to pay their real estate 15 taxes in four installments so that they don't 16 fall and have more money so they would lose 17 their SSI benefits. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 21 if the sponsor would yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 DiCarlo, do you yield? 8507 1 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 yields. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 5 DiCarlo, thank you very much for taking my 6 question. 7 Is this an optional matter for 8 the localities or is this something that each 9 local government will be automatically placed 10 in? 11 SENATOR DiCARLO: This is local 12 option. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: This is local 14 option. The quarterly payments, I assume, are a 15 convenience suiting the available amount of 16 money that exists for the individuals who are 17 eligible? 18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Absolutely. 19 What this says, if -- what happens is, they save 20 up enough money to pay their taxes, and that 21 will then put them over the amount that they are 22 allowed to keep and thus creating a problem in 23 losing their benefits. So this is for - 8508 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. So as 2 they pay down, they can keep the amount under 3 the ceiling. 4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. 6 Thank you very much, Senator. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 LaValle. 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Would Senator 13 DiCarlo yield to one question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 DiCarlo, do you yield to Senator LaValle? 16 SENATOR DiCARLO: Absolutely. 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator 18 DiCarlo, just -- I'm going to support the bill 19 so I just want to preface my statement. One of 20 my concerns is more of a technical nature rather 21 than a substantive nature, in the fact that each 22 of the counties have tax acts. Suffolk County 23 has a Suffolk County Tax Act. 8509 1 My question, really, for the 2 record is whether you have to amend the Suffolk 3 County Tax Act to allow a county to take this 4 particular action rather than give them broad 5 authority to do so? 6 SENATOR DiCARLO: I believe it 7 depends on when the taxes are paid and depending 8 on the county. That's something that -- you 9 know, we look into, also. 10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you very 11 much. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1194, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2782, an 8510 1 act to amend the Education Law, the Penal Law 2 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to 3 denying driving privileges. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar 1194 has been 7 asked for by Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 9 Senator Paterson, this bill would allow the 10 Department of Motor Vehicles to deny driver's 11 licenses to students who are suspended from 12 school for an alcohol or drug-related offense. 13 There are specific summaries - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 17 Larkin? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 yields. 8511 1 SENATOR PATERSON: If that is all 2 that the bill said, then I would agree with it 3 wholeheartedly, but my reading of the bill is 4 that this also applies to school dropouts. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it does, 6 but it's covered very clearly in the bill. If a 7 school dropout has a bona fide reason, he can 8 submit that; and if it's not accepted, he has an 9 appeal process within 15 days. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: If Senator 14 Larkin would continue to yield? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Larkin, do you yield? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Senator continues to yield. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Let's turn to 21 the original offense, Senator Larkin. If a 22 person has an alcohol or a drug-related offense 23 driving infraction, then the punishment relates 8512 1 very close to the actual offense because we're 2 talking about the same area. We do not want 3 people who are intoxicated or suffering from 4 some deficiency related to a substance abuse or 5 a person that has some kind of driving record or 6 diminished capacity that causes them to have car 7 accidents on the road. 8 How do you relate the ones - 9 denying the privilege to drive to an individual 10 who would be otherwise eligible based on a 11 problem that they have with school, which is a 12 totally different thing? Even if we didn't 13 accept their particular reason for why they are 14 not in school, the fact is that it doesn't 15 really relate to their ability to operate a 16 motor vehicle. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I 18 think you are making light of what we're trying 19 to do here. One, we don't want young people who 20 have been dismissed from school for drug or 21 alcohol-related offense. That's one. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: That's part one. 8513 1 SENATOR PATERSON: We agree with 2 that totally. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Part two, we're 4 saying if an individual drops out of school for 5 no reason -- he just doesn't want to go to 6 school any more -- no bona fide reason, that's 7 also a problem for us today. We are talking 8 about young people making sure that they have a 9 responsibility for one another, creativity. 10 We're saying if you drop out of 11 school and you got a bona fide reason, you have 12 to submit it, and then you have the appeal. 13 Let me say, Senator, on this 14 floor there are over 12 states that have this in 15 being today. We have been trying for two to 16 three years on this same bill, and we find that 17 there is nothing wrong in this here. What's 18 wrong with saying to somebody, "You don't want 19 to go to school, fine; let's hear your reason 20 why you don't want to go to school"? 21 Then, there's every reason for 22 them. Last year, the issue was brought up that 23 there is no appeal process. If somebody decides 8514 1 to do that, there should be an appeal. We have 2 amended it. We put in this bill the ability to 3 have an appeal. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 7 President. Senator Larkin, first of all, your 8 including the appeal process is responsive to 9 some of the concerns that were raised, and 10 that's why I'm glad we're having this 11 conversation, because it was from the debate 12 last year that it was decided and you made the 13 ultimate decision to amend the bill, and that 14 really is what I guess validates the Socratic 15 method. I don't know if it validates this 16 process, but we appreciate that you would do 17 that. 18 But what I'm saying, Senator, is 19 suppose a person drops out of school to work, 20 and the appeal process -- we might not think the 21 person should be working. We think they should 22 be in school, but the person has decided that 23 they want to work. If there is a financial 8515 1 hardship to the family, we would probably accept 2 that as a bona fide reason. But this person, 3 maybe they are a star athlete and they got a 4 contract to play professional baseball or 5 something. They've decided they are going to 6 work, and we tell them, "Well, we don't like the 7 fact that you are leaving school," which is a 8 valid concern, and maybe there is a 9 responsibility that we might deem as not being 10 adhered to; but at the same point, our own New 11 York State law says that a person must be a 12 student in a secondary school until age 16. 13 But you have this bill at age 16 14 and 17, and I'm not trying to make light of it. 15 I'm just asking you the question, how can we do 16 that when we have a law on the books that is 17 allowing people who want to leave school at 16 18 to work the opportunity to do that? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: I guess you are 20 asking me, although you said, "On the bill." 21 SENATOR PATERSON: No, no, I was 22 asking you. I'm sorry. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Okay. Senator 8516 1 Paterson, again, they have an appeal process. 2 If they are not satisfied with that 3 administrative judge's action, they have 4 recourse to a 78. 5 But let's go back to what we're 6 really talking about. You are talking about 7 somebody wants to play professional baseball. 8 We're trying to address the issue of somebody 9 who just wants to walk out of school, and "I 10 don't want to go to school any more." 11 I think that we also have some 12 moral responsibility in this state. We're 13 giving him an opportunity -- if he feels that he 14 has a bona fide reason to drop out of school, 15 Senator, we're giving him that opportunity. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 19 Larkin, do you know that Senator Leichter likes 20 this bill? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: He said to me, 22 "I will not harass you; I like your bill." 23 Am I correct, Senator? 8517 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, before, 2 I just wanted to ask a couple of questions. Now 3 I'm just getting warmed up. 4 (Laughter.) 5 Senator, I like your bill. I 6 like the part that relates to drug and alcohol 7 offenses, but let's take the situation where the 8 individual is claiming financial hardship. They 9 drop out of school, and they want to work. They 10 have to go through this administrative law judge 11 and then they may have to go through the appeal 12 process. They still might lose; but in the 13 meantime, over a period of what might be a 14 month, we have denied them the opportunity to 15 make a living because in many parts of our 16 state, as you know, a person would probably need 17 a motor vehicle to actually perform their job. 18 I'm just saying that the 19 legislation is well merited, and great minds 20 such as yourself and Senator Leichter appreciate 21 the bill and great minds think alike, but maybe 22 a person of diminished capacity like myself 23 might have one point to offer, and the point 8518 1 that I'm just trying to raise to you is the fact 2 that the legislation might be a little over 3 reaching. We might really be infringing upon 4 the rights of individuals who don't finish 5 school, who may actually be doing something 6 worthwhile with their lives, even though it may 7 not be what we might consider to be the best 8 thing that they could do with their life, which 9 all three of us would agree would be to be in 10 school. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, one 12 final point in the bill. Reading it very 13 carefully, you will find out -- you had said 14 there that we're going to deny him during this 15 process. There is no denying during the 16 process. The individual retains their driver's 17 license until the final action is taken. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: I didn't know 21 that before right now, Senator. I thought that 22 whenever there is an appeal process the person 23 has already lost. In other words, after you 8519 1 have lost the first time, the appeal process as 2 in any kind of an administrative ruling, that 3 the administrative ruling goes into effect, and 4 the reason it has to go into effect is because 5 the entity does not know that the complainant is 6 going to appeal. 7 So if I can just ask one last 8 question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 continues to yield. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Can you verify 15 for me that after the administrative decision 16 and up to the appeal process that the person can 17 still operate the vehicle? Is that correct? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. I 20 don't see where the bill addresses that. On the 21 bill, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Line 34 on page 23 2, Senator. 8520 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Line 34, 2 Section 2. Well, I would just say that -- it 3 says when the determination is made. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: On line 33, 5 "When a determination that the student has 6 withdrawn from or been suspended or expelled 7 from school is no longer subject to the appeal 8 to the Commissioner or judicial review, the 9 Commissioner of Motor Vehicles shall deny all 10 driving privileges to such student pursuant to 11 section so and so and so of the Vehicle and 12 Traffic Law until such student attains his 18th 13 birthday." 14 That tells me that he has that 15 license until the final action on his appeal was 16 taken. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: And that tells 20 me the same thing, Senator. I stand corrected 21 and beg your indulgence on that point. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: On the bill, 23 Mr. President. 8521 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson on the bill. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: I certainly 4 thank Senator Larkin for clearing that up. It 5 certainly will not deny an individual the 6 opportunity up until the time the situation is 7 completely -- has completely finished a 8 process. 9 But I would caution those who 10 support the bill that I still think that the 11 bill is somewhat overreaching and, although the 12 merit is quite well founded, I don't really 13 think that we have a right because we are 14 unhappy with individuals and how they are 15 conducting their lives to excessively exact 16 punitive measures on them that don't relate to 17 whatever it is that they are actually involved 18 in. 19 If necessary, Senator Larkin, 20 what I would probably be more interested in is 21 actually raising the age from which we allow 22 people to leave school, more than penalizing 23 them in an ancillary way for the fact that they 8522 1 do. But I thank you for clearing up a couple 2 points that I didn't understand. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 6 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple of 7 questions? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Larkin, do you yield to a question from Senator 10 Dollinger? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator Jones 16 and I are over here somewhat perplexed. Does 17 this bill, in essence, increase the age of 18 compulsory education in this state from 16 years 19 to 18 years if you want to drive a car? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Would you 21 restate your question, please? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, under 23 current law in the State of New York, as I 8523 1 understand it, you are required to go to school 2 until age 16. After that, you can leave and go 3 any -- you don't have to pursue a course of 4 diploma. You can leave and go do anything you 5 want to do. You're not in violation of any law 6 of the state of New York. 7 My question is if a student 8 decides at age 16 to leave school, as he's got 9 the right to do it under our law, does he run 10 afoul of your bill, give up his right to drive a 11 car? 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, if he 13 doesn't have a bona fide reason for driving. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 15 through you, Mr. President. Under current law, 16 he doesn't need a bona fide reason. He can 17 leave school for any reason at all. We leave 18 that entirely up to him or her. 19 Are we now putting the 20 requirement that in order to both exercise your 21 right to leave school at 16, which we have under 22 current law, and your right to have a driver's 23 license if you pass the test and show your 8524 1 competency as a driver -- are we now adding a 2 third requirement that says you also have to go 3 to school to have a driver's license? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think 5 you are mixing, again, a right and a privilege. 6 To drive a car in this state is a privilege. 7 It's not a right. We're talking about 8 privilege. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr. 10 President, I can understand that. 11 Again, through you, Mr. 12 President, are we putting a new condition that 13 says you have to not only be able to competently 14 drive a car, you now have to be 16 years of age, 15 but you have to be in school, as well? Is that 16 what we're saying? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Not if you have 18 a bona fide reason, the same thing I gave to 19 Senator Paterson, Senator. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 21 through you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 8525 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's the 3 whole point, Senator. You don't need a bona 4 fide reason now. You can leave school for any 5 reason you want after age 16; correct? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: You still can't 7 drive. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So you 9 now have another requirement. You have to be 10 proficient as a driver; you have to be in 11 school, and you have to be 16 years of age. 12 Two other questions briefly, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 continues to yield. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, what 21 is the administrative cost to the school 22 districts of this state of filing an attendance 23 form for those who are between 16 and 18, which 8526 1 they are not legally required to do now, and 2 what's the requirement that they keep that 3 attendance, that they notify the Commissioner, 4 that they get involved in the Commissioner's 5 determination because they will be the witnesses 6 who will testify to the fact that the student is 7 no longer in? What is your anticipated cost to 8 the 729 school districts in this state of having 9 to comply with this new unfunded mandate -- or 10 this mandate? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, the 12 school districts that I talked to, they told me 13 they thought it would be insignificant because 14 their big concern is making sure that the 15 student is in school because aid to school 16 districts is based on attendance, how many 17 students are there. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So - 19 through you, Mr. President -- do you have any 20 kind of - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 23 Senator continues to yield. 8527 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do you have a 2 local fiscal impact note on this? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: No, Senator, 4 because they don't feel it's needed and neither 5 do I. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So 7 we're telling them to do something, but we're 8 not giving them any funds to support their doing 9 it. Is that a fair statement? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't 11 appreciate your statement, Senator. I think 12 what we're trying to do here is to be of 13 assistance to school districts, to individuals. 14 We're trying to add some demeanor of 15 responsibility to them and, if they take on a 16 factor of drugs and alcohol, I think we as 17 legislators have a responsibility of -- as 18 Senator Paterson mentioned, about people driving 19 and drinking. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President, just one final question - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Larkin, do you yield to one more question? 8528 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- for the 2 sponsor. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 yields. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the 6 penalty to a school district -- does he yield, 7 Mr. President? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What is the 11 penalty to a school district to enforce this 12 provision and to get their compliance that they 13 will actually do what you want them to do? What 14 is the penalty? 15 SENATOR LARKIN: No penalty. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So if a 17 school district decides to disregard this, 18 nothing happens? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator, I 20 think, once again, you're trying to -- in my 21 opinion, Senator, no disrespect, you are trying 22 to belittle something that about 22 other states 23 have done, very successful -- with very 8529 1 successful rates with young people tying two 2 things in, reduction of utilization of drugs and 3 alcohol and keeping young people in school for 4 their own personal benefit not only for today 5 but for their future. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 7 President, on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger, on the bill. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If this bill 11 simply did what Senator Larkin described, I 12 would agree with him. If the bill provided that 13 if you were found guilty of a drug offense and 14 expelled from school you would lose your driving 15 privileges, that would make sense. I agree with 16 Senator Paterson, that would make sense. 17 But as I read this bill, it goes 18 a step further than that. It says that if you 19 are over 16 years of age and you decide to leave 20 school for any reason, not drug-related -- you 21 simply decide, "I'm not required to go to 22 school. I don't have to. The law of the State 23 of New York doesn't require me to go to school. 8530 1 I'm not a truant. I have a right as a 2 16-year-old to leave school" -- then if you do 3 leave school, you lose your driver's 4 privileges. That's the part of the bill I don't 5 understand. 6 I think it is an unfunded 7 mandate. I can think of the school districts 8 that I represent who are going to spend oodles 9 of time roaming around trying to take attendance 10 for people they don't necessarily take 11 attendance for, for trying to determine what 12 their bona fide reason for not being in school 13 is, and I can also understand that without any 14 penalty to require the districts to do it 15 they're simply going to look at this and say, 16 "It's another unfunded mandate from Albany; why 17 should we comply with it?" 18 I think there are all kinds of 19 problems with this bill. I think it perhaps 20 needs another think. Under those circumstances, 21 Mr. President, I would be opposed. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 23 recognizes Senator Marchi. 8531 1 SENATOR MARCHI: I think it's 2 excellent. The first part of it is fine, but it 3 may be counterproductive to go that extra mile. 4 That youngster may drive illegally. I have seen 5 -- I shouldn't be even talking about the 6 18-year-old drinking age, but that's another 7 thing where a lot of youth has become very 8 cynical about the law simply because it doesn't 9 correspond with reality, so you have rampant 10 disregard of a law that was functioning well 11 under the circumstances. 12 I'm not sure -- I feel that we're 13 carrying it a bit too far; and, for that reason, 14 I oppose it. I do hope that he preserves that 15 first part of it which is excellent, makes real 16 sense to me. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 18 two other people who want to speak. 19 The Chair recognizes Senator 20 Jones. 21 Senator Jones, before you take 22 the floor. Can we have a little quiet here, 23 please. Senator Leibell, other members, can you 8532 1 take the conversations out of the chamber. 2 Can't hear each other. 3 Thank you. 4 Chair recognizes Senator Jones. 5 SENATOR JONES: Yes. Will the 6 sponsor yield to a question, please? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Jones? 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 yields. 13 SENATOR JONES: Senator, if you 14 will indulge the school teacher in me. I'm 15 trying to figure out how this would work. What 16 would happen, let's say, a student who 17 academically fails, who is asked to leave school 18 for academic failure, is not making the grade. 19 He's failed all his courses at 16, and the 20 school suggests he leaves. What would happen in 21 that case? 22 SENATOR LARKIN: I gather your 23 question is if we have a student who just can't 8533 1 cut the mustard. 2 SENATOR JONES: Correct. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: He can go with 4 that as a bona fide reason. He has the 5 opportunity. It's very clear in there. He can 6 say that I can't -- "I don't have the capacity 7 to learn. I don't have the capacity to study. 8 I can't have a concentration." He can do that. 9 That is his bona fide reason, and he has the 10 appeal process. 11 SENATOR JONES: Would the Senator 12 yield to another question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Larkin, do you yield to another question? 15 The Senator yields. 16 SENATOR JONES: I'm trying to 17 find that in here. I see "personal family 18 hardship." What would that come under, the 19 academic failure? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: When you say in 21 there "personal," Senator Jones, I think there 22 are a multitude of personal reasons, a family 23 hardship, a death in the family, a number of 8534 1 children there, and mental capacity. 2 I can remember when I was growing 3 up, young people dropped out of school because 4 there were seven and eight, nine children, and 5 they helped some of the other children, the 6 younger or the older. That was a valid reason 7 to leave school in those days, and I'm confident 8 that it would be a valid reason by an 9 administrative judge today. 10 SENATOR JONES: Will the Senator 11 yield to one more question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Larkin, do you yield to one more question? 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR JONES: The other thing 16 I'm a little concerned about is, where do the 17 parents enter into this? Let's say, for 18 whatever reason, it's fine with the parents. 19 The child wants to drop out of school. Mom and 20 dad have no objection. I have no idea what he's 21 going to do, but I happen -- not that I approve, 22 but there are families where the child doesn't 23 work and they just leave school with the 8535 1 parents' permission. Do you envision any 2 problem with the parents when the state now 3 steps in and takes their child's driver's 4 license? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, I think 6 we ought to go back to the basic premise of this 7 bill. We're trying to encourage young people to 8 stay in school. If that individual decides he 9 wants to drop out and the parents don't care, he 10 can drop out of school, but he's just not going 11 to have a driver's license. 12 SENATOR JONES: To rephrase my 13 question, do you envision that there would be 14 any problem with parents over an issue like this 15 who didn't happen to agree with this ruling of 16 the school? 17 SENATOR LARKIN: It's done. 18 SENATOR JONES: You don't 19 envision lawsuits on the part of the parents or 20 any such thing? 21 On the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Jones on the bill. 8536 1 SENATOR JONES: You know, I am 2 very supportive of the drug and alcohol piece. 3 I think that's excellent, but I think there's a 4 lot of problems with the issue when we have a 5 law on our books that says at 16 they don't have 6 to stay in school and now we're saying the 7 school not only has to police what happens after 8 that, they are going to have to, you know, take 9 away their driver's license. 10 I think we're really stepping 11 into a problem here. I certainly think we all 12 want the goal of keeping kids in school. 13 There's another issue that I would bring up that 14 I brought up last year on this floor; that I 15 happen to know in the city of Rochester, we have 16 children collecting social services who are 17 showing up one day out of 20, having the paper 18 signed, and are able to collect social services 19 and are not attending school, and here's a 20 person, technically, would be able to have a 21 driver's license even though they are missing 19 22 of the 20 days. 23 So I think there's a lot of 8537 1 things that need to be looked at again as far as 2 just a person who drops out of school. I'm very 3 supportive of the drug and alcohol piece. I 4 think anything we can do to work with students 5 with these kind of problems or take away 6 privileges, or whatever it takes, but I'm very 7 concerned about basically changing another law 8 that's on the books that they do have a right to 9 a driver's license. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 19 the results when tabulated. 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar 1194 are Senators 22 Abate, Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger, Farley, 23 Hoffmann, Jones, Kruger, Marchi, Markowitz, 8538 1 Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson, Present, Sears, 2 Seward, Smith, and Wright. Ayes 40. Nays 18. 3 The bill is passed. 4 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 6 Is there a substitution from the Assembly on 7 Calendar Number 350? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is, 9 at the desk. I will ask the Secretary to read 10 the substitution. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 12 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 13 Assembly Bill Number 3051B and substitute it for 14 the identical Calendar Number 350. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, substitution is ordered. 17 Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Would you read 19 the title of the bill, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will call Calendar Number 350. We are on the 22 regular calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8539 1 350, Budget Bill, Assembly Print Number 3051B, 2 an act making appropriations for the support of 3 government. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 7 message at the desk? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 9 a message of necessity at the desk, Senator 10 Bruno. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: I move at this 12 time we adopt the message, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to adopt the message of necessity at 15 the desk on Calendar Number 350. 16 All in favor, signify by saying 17 aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed, nay. 20 (There was no response.) 21 The message is adopted. 22 Secretary will read the last 23 section. 8540 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I see 4 that there's a couple members who would like 5 to - 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Point of 7 order, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can you just 10 tell us which bill this is? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: This is 12 Calendar Number 350 on the first calendar of the 13 day, Calendar Number 61. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Does it have 15 a short title, Mr. President? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Legislature and Judiciary Budget. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's a good 19 one, Mr. President. Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 I can understand the alacrity with which you 8541 1 called for the reading of the last section, and 2 I think all of us are delighted to see a 3 legislative and judiciary bill before us because 4 it certainly signals that this long, arduous and 5 painful budget process is coming to an end. 6 One may also rejoice as a 7 legislator in the thought that we're finally 8 going to get paid after working 60 days without 9 any pay. 10 But I just wish that we had 11 before us a legislative and judiciary budget 12 that was in proper form, a bill that kept what I 13 thought was the promise that had been made by 14 the new administration that we're really going 15 to turn a new leaf. 16 All we heard after the November 17 election and as this legislative session started 18 is that things are going to be done differently. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Stafford, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize 23 for interrupting my constituent, summer 8542 1 constituent, but I want to get it right here. 2 Now, was an explanation asked for? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, an 4 explanation was not asked for. The Chair 5 recognized Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: But I will 7 yield. You want to explain the bill, Senator? 8 I'll certainly yield. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, that's 10 what I was driving at. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 12 Sure. Let me yield to you, and I will make my 13 comments afterwards. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter yields to Senator Stafford for an 16 explanation of the bill. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: I thought 18 maybe I could put things in a bit of a different 19 light and speaking of light, I don't want to 20 overdo this; but, again, like many, I have been 21 here for a number of sessions during the budget 22 process and we have certainly seen a lot more 23 light during this session than we've ever seen 8543 1 before. 2 I will just speak generally and 3 then, of course, be glad to answer any 4 questions. I'm sure some will and, of course, 5 Senator Leichter will make his comments. But, 6 you know, I want to be general here. You can 7 all see it. 8 My friends, the spending has been 9 going down here in the Legislature and when 10 there is any rise in any parts of it, it has 11 been less than the Consumer Price Index, and I 12 think we have to explain this. 13 We have a job to do. I know one 14 time I was running, and it was my first time, 15 and someone was saying let's repeal this tax and 16 let's repeal this tax, and I got thinking a 17 minute. Well, it sounds good. I said let's 18 repeal every tax, and I said let's do away with 19 all the fees. Obviously, it made no sense. 20 And, of course, it would make no 21 sense for us to say that we could do our job 22 here without having the proper support and the 23 proper funding. I want to emphasize that 8544 1 revisions are being made, and I believe starting 2 next year there will be itemized expenses for 3 everyone serving in the Senate. 4 Again, I certainly want to 5 emphasize that, actually, we have been spending 6 less, much less, than what the Consumer Price 7 Index as it has risen would provide for and, of 8 course, this is used in many businesses, and 9 it's used very often as a barometer. 10 Let me get into just some 11 specifics, please. 12 The judiciary budget: It should 13 be pointed out that, after a great deal of hard 14 work, many conferences, the Judiciary Committee, 15 the staff, here in the Senate and, yes, the 16 Assembly, there is an $18.1 million reduction in 17 what -- reduction in the General Fund from the 18 Judiciary's request. It's $18.1 million less 19 than was requested. 20 Of this amount, 14.5 million 21 results from the approval of the following 22 Article VII bills -- and I could go down all of 23 them, but they involve the New York City County 8545 1 Clerks, nonjury function, the elimination of 2 mandatory sequestration of deliberating jurors 3 in certain cases -- we're one of the few states 4 that still had this -- a change from two to one 5 in the number of transcripts which must be filed 6 for criminal appeals -- I'm getting into too 7 much detail here -- that save $500,000, a change 8 in the electronic recording devices, how they 9 would be used, and a transfer of jurisdiction of 10 the New York City Administrative Code violations 11 to New York City -- it's criminal court, turn it 12 over to the administrative tribunal, which would 13 save $1 million. 14 There are other savings I could 15 go into, but I think you get the gist of what 16 the judiciary budget is. 17 Now, again, I have mentioned 18 generally the legislative budget. Now, please 19 listen. Our legislative budget, 177 million for 20 fiscal year 1995-1996 is $200,000 less than 21 1994-95. How many areas - 22 Actually, as I say, I could get 23 into specifics more, but I think you understand 8546 1 that a good job has been done here by both 2 houses and by the staffs, and I would submit 3 that it's a good budget. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 I thank my good friend for his explanation, 8 clear and, I thought, telling in the emphasis 9 that he put on the judiciary budget. The 10 judiciary budget, as he pointed out, was $18 11 million less. Then he comes to the legislative 12 budget and says, "Look what we did, $200,000 13 less." But I want to get to that in a moment, 14 Senator, because that was really not the main 15 point that I was trying to make, and let me say, 16 I think that we perform a very important 17 function. We are an equal branch of 18 government. I think that legislators in this 19 house, in the other house, whatever party, they 20 come to work hard, provide an important service, 21 and you can't provide that service unless you 22 have resources, staff, and so on. 23 If you deny legislators staff, 8547 1 you deny a legislator the ability to function 2 because you don't give him or her an office or 3 computer, and so on, that legislator cannot 4 represent his or her constituents, and the 5 Legislature cannot perform its function. So I 6 agree and I make no apologies and I am not 7 ashamed of the fact that we will require certain 8 funds, and I think that, by and large, the 9 expenditures on the Legislature are well spent, 10 but I do think that there is waste within the 11 legislative budget and that we have not taken to 12 the legislative budget the same sort of scalpel 13 -- actually, it was more than a scalpel -- a 14 hatchet that we've taken to so many social 15 programs, to so many governmental programs, this 16 year. 17 But before Senator Stafford got 18 up, what I wanted to talk about -- something 19 I've talked about often in this chamber, and if 20 you are tired of hearing it, I have some 21 sympathy for it, but I think it's terribly 22 important because it really deals with the 23 integrity of this legislature. What has 8548 1 offended me from the very first legislative 2 budget I ever saw, when I was in the Assembly, 3 and that was the fact that the Legislature 4 treats itself differently than it does the 5 Judiciary and the Executive. 6 We exempt ourselves from the 7 rules, the principles, even the laws that apply 8 to other branches of government, that apply to 9 other governmental agencies and authorities. We 10 do not have a detailed budget. We spend a very 11 large sum of money. Whether it's all fully 12 justified or not, it is certainly a very large 13 sum of money and we do not tell the public how 14 we spend that money. That's just wrong. You 15 can't under any circumstance justify that and in 16 the past, as you know, we've put forth 17 amendments to make our point. 18 Earlier this year, when you moved 19 your one house legislative-judiciary budget, we 20 came up with certain amendments. I'm not going 21 to put forth these amendments again. You know 22 what they are. The votes have been recorded, 23 but the point we want to make -- and I want to 8549 1 address it even though this may be the second 2 time around this year on the legislative 3 judicial budget -- is to keep on making the 4 point that we have an obligation to have an 5 honest budget, and this is not an honest 6 budget. 7 Now, Senator Stafford, if I 8 understood him, said, "Well, we're going to do 9 it next year." Next year? Why couldn't we do 10 it this year? What was it that prevented us 11 this year from coming up with a detailed, 12 itemized budget. I've heard some talk, "Well, 13 the computers haven't been programmed," and this 14 and that. I submit to you that that's just not 15 a washable explanation. You certainly could 16 have come up with a much greater detailed budget 17 than we have here. 18 This is a budget even within the 19 broad categories that exist and the vague 20 itemization and the description of what the 21 items are, the Majority Leader and the Speaker 22 are allowed to shift appropriations between this 23 category, so it's no budget at all. It's 8550 1 totally meaningless. 2 I understand that the beginning 3 of this year that when there was an effort to 4 reconstruct what the Senate had spent last year 5 that it was extremely difficult to do, that 6 there were questions -- not that there was any 7 wrongdoing, as such, but that there was not a 8 clear identification of how monies had been 9 spent, and one of the reasons was because there 10 was no standard as to which you could judge how 11 the money was to be spent. You weren't in a 12 position to say, "Well, wait a second, you can 13 spend only so much for postage, you can spend 14 only so much for telephone," because you're able 15 to shift appropriations categories, and I think 16 that we ought to stop that. 17 What I think is particularly 18 unfortunate about the budget this year is 19 because I understood certain commitments were 20 made -- when I say commitments, I don't mean 21 legal commitments, but promises were made, and I 22 think we've moved, Senator Bruno, forward in 23 some areas, but it's more than just starting the 8551 1 Senate on time. It also means having a fair, 2 honest legislative budget, and it means 3 something else. It means also making it clear 4 how the monies are spent and that they are spent 5 in an equitable, in a fair manner as between 6 members of the Majority and the Minority. 7 The disparity in spending that 8 exists is just inexcusable. You don't find it 9 in Congress, but you do find it in the New York 10 State Senate, and let me say, many of the things 11 that I say apply equally to the Majority in the 12 Assembly, but I know at least one thing that the 13 Assembly does is that all members get the same 14 equipment, all members have access to the same 15 resources. That's not the case here. We have 16 some members here who have equipment that is 17 totally antiquated. 18 There is no justification under 19 law and, if necessary, this thing will 20 eventually be challenged in court that members 21 of the Majority can have new computers, laser 22 printers whereas, members of the Minority have 23 to wait for it, and I wish that we would get 8552 1 away from that because it's petty, it's 2 sophomoric. It takes away, I think, from the 3 common purpose that we all have, which is to 4 serve the people of the State of New York. 5 Let me just address the issue of 6 whether the amounts, the total amounts provided 7 in this budget show a real restraint on the part 8 of the Senate, and I wanted to preface my 9 remarks, as I did, that I think we perform 10 important services and, obviously, you've got to 11 pay for these services. But we put forward in 12 the past a budget which shows a significantly 13 lower reduction and provides certainly enough 14 monies in staff and equipment for everyone to do 15 their job. This particular budget, while 16 Senator Bruno has touted the fact that the 17 legislative budget is $200,000 less than last 18 year, the fact is that the Senate budget last 19 year -- if you took a look at the appropriations 20 for 1994-1995 for the Senate, they were 21 $66,679,000. This year the appropriation in the 22 bill before us is $70,049,000. So there is an 23 increase of roughly $3,369,000. 8553 1 Now, part of that is due because 2 some legislative commissions have apparently 3 been folded into the overall Senate appropria 4 tion but the bottom line is that there is an 5 increase. In fact, there has been an increase 6 of $1-1/2 million since we voted at the end of 7 March on your version of the legislative 8 judiciary budget. 9 Our itemized budget has a total 10 appropriation for the Senate of $57 million, to 11 be precise $57,653,000. That is an adequate 12 budget to run the Senate fairly, efficiently, 13 effectively, and our budget lays down how much 14 each member gets, how much each committee gets. 15 It sets forth precisely how much goes for 16 equipment, how much goes for postage, how much 17 goes for telephone. Somebody reading this will 18 say, "I know how the Senate spends its monies." 19 You look at this bill, you have no way of 20 knowing it. 21 Now, you pride yourselves on 22 being fiscal Conservatives, fiscally respons 23 ible. Then don't put forth a budget like this. 8554 1 Can you go and justify to your constituents why 2 the Senate does not disclose how it spends 3 public monies? We never allow the Executive to 4 do that. We insist that the Executive comes up 5 with an itemized budget. 6 In fact, in the same bill, we 7 have a very itemized budget for the Judiciary 8 but, when it comes to the Senate, that's 9 different. We're above the law. We just 10 shouldn't do it, and I would -- I won't say 11 "hope" -- I would expect that next year, we 12 will do the right thing, and these promises of, 13 "This is a new administration, this is a breath 14 of fresh air, we're going to do things 15 differently, we're going to be responsible to 16 the public," would be reflected first and 17 foremost in the legislative budget. 18 Just, in conclusion, let me say 19 that here we are. It's June 7. It's 20 approaching June 8, and we're finally passing a 21 budget, and it's a budget that was put on our 22 desk at the last minute, negotiated among three 23 leaders behind closed doors, very significant 8555 1 important provisions, programmatic changes in 2 the law that the public did not have an 3 opportunity to see, a legislative budget which 4 is not itemized, which is not detailed, which is 5 not subject to the same economies that we 6 demanded of the Executive. If that is a breath 7 of new air, if that is turning a new leaf, if 8 that is a change towards greater responsibility, 9 all that we really have is a lot of words. We 10 certainly don't have any actions. 11 I strongly urge upon all of us 12 that as we pass this budget -- and, of course, 13 it will be passed -- that there be a commitment 14 by us, commitment by all of us collectively that 15 we will have an honest, itemized and reasonably 16 funded legislative budget. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8556 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 2 the results when tabulated. 3 Senator Dollinger to explain his 4 vote. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my 6 vote, Mr. President. 7 I share many of the sentiments 8 which Senator Leichter echoed, and I want to 9 applaud Senator Bruno and my Republican 10 colleagues. When Senator Bruno was elected the 11 Temporary President, he did talk about making a 12 new sweep in this house and bringing new tools 13 and new attributes in this house and a change in 14 the way we practice and other things. I feel a 15 little bit like the kid. I've seen the broom 16 sweep the floor, and I look down at the floor, 17 and the floor is clean. The only problem is the 18 dust hasn't settled yet, and I'm still waiting 19 for the dust cloud to sort of work its way down 20 in the kitchen and, when it's finally done, 21 we'll then look at the floor to see whether 22 there is still the old dust on the floor and 23 whether the sweeping actually swept it all up or 8557 1 just put it in a bunch of clouds that eventually 2 settled back down. 3 I am waiting to see the clean 4 floor, Senator, the clean floor that will have 5 an itemized budget, that will have a better 6 distribution of the resources, that will have a 7 tool to allow this house to function even more 8 efficiently. I certainly think that's in the 9 offing. I do want to see how that dust settles 10 down, and maybe we'll settle down next year when 11 we see the fully itemized legislative budget, 12 and we'll be able to decide whether the room is 13 really clean or whether it's just all suspended 14 up in the clouds. 15 I will be voting nay, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 19 Results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar 350 are Senators Abate, 22 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, Oppen 23 heimer, Santiago and Smith. Ayes 50, nays 8. 8558 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 Senator Bruno. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 5 Can we call for an immediate meeting of the 6 Finance Committee followed by a meeting of the 7 Rules Committee in Room 332. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 9 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 10 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 11 Room, 332. Immediate meeting of the Senate 12 Finance Committee in Room 332, the Majority 13 Conference Room. That meeting will be followed 14 immediately by the Senate Rules Committee 15 meeting in the same room, Room 332. First 16 Senate Finance, then Senate Rules. 17 Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 19 Can we ask for unanimous consent to move 20 Calendar Number 536 - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: May we 22 have order in the chamber, please. 23 Senator Bruno. 8559 1 SENATOR BRUNO: We ask for 2 unanimous consent, Mr. President, on Calendar 3 Number 5363, move it directly to third reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, Calendar Number 5363 -- it's a 6 pension supplement bill -- will be moved 7 directly to Third Reading Calendar. 8 The Senate will come to order. 9 The Chair will recognize Senator 10 Bruno. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 12 there's some housekeeping things to be done at 13 the desk. We might do them at this time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a 15 lot of housekeeping, Senator Bruno. We'll 16 return to motions and resolutions. 17 The Chair would recognize Senator 18 Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 Mr. President, For Senator Tully, 22 on page 37, I offer the following amendments to 23 Calendar Number 1107, Senate Print Number 4673, 8560 1 and ask that said bill return its place on the 2 Third Reading Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 amendments to Calendar Number 1107 are received 5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 6 the Third Reading Calendar. 7 Senator Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 9 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page 34, I offer 10 the following amendments to Calendar Number 982, 11 Senate Print Number 26, and ask that said bill 12 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 amendments to Calendar Number 982 are received 15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 16 the Third Reading Calendar. 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 On behalf of Senator Hoblock, I 21 wish to call up his bill, Senate Print 3108, 22 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 23 desk. 8561 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the title. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 963, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3108, an 5 act to amend the Civil Service Law and others. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 9 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 10 bill was passed. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 13 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call 14 the roll on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 21 offer up of the following amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 amendments are received and adopted. 8562 1 Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 On behalf of Senator Cook, I call 5 up his bill, Print Number 2902, recalled from 6 the Assembly which is now at the desk. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the title. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 373, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 2902, an act 11 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 12 authorizing wire transfer. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Libous. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 16 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 17 bill was passed. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 20 bill passed the house. The Secretary will call 21 the roll on consideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration.) 8563 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 5 offer up the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 amendments are received and adopted. 8 Senator Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 10 call up Senator Velella's bill, Print Number 11 4112-A, recalled from the Assembly which is now 12 at the desk. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the title. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 703, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4112-A, an 17 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 18 investments. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Libous. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 22 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 23 bill was passed. 8564 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 9 offer up the following amendments. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 amendments are received and adopted. 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 We have one more here, sir. On 16 behalf of my colleague, Senator Maziarz, on page 17 37, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 18 Number 1131, Senate Print Number 4435-A, and ask 19 that said bill retain its place on the Third 20 Reading Calendar. 21 ACTING PRESDIENT KUHL: The 22 amendments to Calendar Number 1131 are received 23 and adopted. 8565 1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 2 ease.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senate will come to order. 5 The Chair - 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 7 can we at this time return to reports of 8 standing committees and I believe there's a 9 report from the Finance Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 11 is. The Chair would just note that prior to our 12 standing at ease there was a request that 13 Calendar Number -- I should say Bill Number 5363 14 go directly to third reading, but the Majority 15 Leader objected to that without the benefit of 16 it going through a Finance Committee, so we had 17 a Finance Committee. Now there's a report at 18 the desk that I'll ask the Secretary to read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 21 following bills: 22 Senate Print 5360, by the 23 Committee on Rules, an act in relation to 8566 1 certain provisions which impact upon the 2 expenditure of certain appropriations; 3 Senate Print 5363, by the Senate 4 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 5 Retirement and Social Security Law and the 6 Education Law, in relation to supplemental 7 retirement allowances. 8 All bills reported to third 9 reading. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection, the bills will be reported directly 12 to third reading. 13 Senator Bruno. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 15 can we now take up Calendar 1211? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the title of Calendar Number 18 1211. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1211, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 21 Bill 5360, an act in relation to certain 22 provisions which impact upon the expenditure of 23 certain appropriations. 8567 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Bruno. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 4 message of necessity at the desk, Mr. 5 President? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary informs me that there is a message of 8 necessity at the desk. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: I move that we 10 adopt the message. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 motion is to adopt the message of necessity on 13 Calendar Number 1211. All those in favor 14 signify by saying aye. 15 (Response of "Aye".) 16 Opposed, nay. 17 (There was no response.) 18 The message is accepted. 19 The Secretary will read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 113. 22 This act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8568 1 Dollinger, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this the 3 Aid to Localities language bill? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 113. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 14 the results when tabulated. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 16 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President - 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is this 5360, 22 Mr. President? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That was 8569 1 the bill that was just before the house. 2 Senator Leichter, you will be recorded in the 3 negative along with Senator Dollinger, along 4 with Senator Jones, along with Senator Hoffmann, 5 along with Senator Nanula, along with Senator 6 Stachowski and Senator Abate. Announce the 7 results when tabulated. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar 1211 are Senators 10 Abate, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, Leichter, 11 Nanula and Stachowski. Ayes 51, nays 7. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Bruno. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 16 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 17 1212? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 20 1212. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1212, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 23 Print 5363, an act to amend the Retirement and 8570 1 Social Security Law and the Education Law, in 2 relation to supplemental retirement allowances. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 6 message of necessity at the desk? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary informs me that there is a message of 9 necessity at the desk. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we move its 11 adoption at this time, Mr. President? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 motion is to accept the message of necessity to 14 Calendar Number 1212. All those in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The message is accepted. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 8571 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50... 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 6 the results when tabulated. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Can I have my 8 name called? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Hoffmann to explain her vote. 11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President, 12 it troubles me that we're receiving this bill at 13 this hour with so little time to reflect on it. 14 I asked in Finance at what point an agreement 15 had been reached and was informed that at 16 approximately 7:00 o'clock this evening the 17 Governor and the two legislative leaders of this 18 state's legislative bodies came to an agreement 19 without the consent of the Comptroller or the 20 consultation of the Comptroller on this 21 provision. 22 It is now a little past 10:00 23 p.m. this same evening. None of us have had an 8572 1 opportunity to adequately read and review this 2 measure, much less discuss it with those 3 affected pensioners in those districts who would 4 be affected. 5 I'm very concerned about retired 6 police officers, firefighters, teachers, other 7 public employees who very much would like to see 8 and deserve, in some cases, desperately deserve 9 an increase in their pensions, but I'm equally 10 troubled by the fact that there is an apparent 11 raid on a pension fund used to do some other 12 budget balancing. 13 Apparently, $120 million will be 14 going to localities and 110 million will be 15 going to the state from the pension fund by this 16 piece of legislation. That constitutes, to most 17 business people's way of thinking, fiscal 18 gimmickry and it's simply not something that I'm 19 willing to condone and I don't think the people 20 in the 48th Senate District believe that it is a 21 reasonable way for us to be balancing our budget 22 at this late hour. 23 So, reluctantly, I will be 8573 1 casting a no vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative. 4 Announce the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 6 Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Paterson, why do you 10 rise? 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 would you please recognize Senator Santiago. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Santiago. 15 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you. 16 Mr. President, I ask unanimous 17 consent to be recorded in the negative on 18 Calendar 1194. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator 21 Santiago will be recorded in the negative on 22 Calendar Number 1194. 23 Senator Santiago again. 8574 1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. I would 2 also like to be recorded in the negative -- if I 3 had been in the chambers last week, I would have 4 been recorded in the negative on Calendar 1092 5 and I would have voted in the affirmative on 6 Calendars 342, 1091 and 1090. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Santiago, I have that -- and I didn't hear the 10 last number that you would -- had you been in 11 the chamber, you would have voted in the 12 negative on Calendar Number 1092? 13 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes, sir. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And would 15 have voted in the affirmative on Calendars 16 Number 342, 791 - 17 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No, 1091. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1091. 19 SENATOR SANTIAGO: And 1090. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1090. 21 Okay. The record will so reflect. 22 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 8575 1 recognizes Senator Bruno. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: We don't have 3 anything on the floor presently, Mr. President? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Okay. Mr. 6 President, we have completed the budget. On 7 behalf of the people of this state -- and I want 8 to commend my colleagues for having addressed 9 what is necessary on behalf of the people of 10 this state at a reasonable hour, in a reasonable 11 way, as reasonable people, and we now will move 12 on to other business, Mr. President, and I would 13 like to recognize that there is no further 14 business to come before the Senate and I move 15 that we adjourn until tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until 19 tomorrow, Thursday, June 8th, at the regular 20 hour, 11:00 a.m. 21 (Whereupon, at 10:25 p.m., the 22 Senate adjourned.) 23