Wednesday, June 14, 1995

9641 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 14, 1995 10 10:05 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 9642 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 will come to order. Members please find their 4 places; staff their places. 5 I ask everybody in the chamber to 6 rise and join me in saying the Pledge of 7 Allegiance to the Flag. 8 (Whereupon, the Senate and those 9 present joined in the Pledge of Allegiance to 10 the Flag.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're 12 very pleased to be joined by Rabbi Jeffrey 13 Miller of the Marathon Jewish Center of 14 Douglaston, New York, to lead us in prayer. 15 Rabbi Miller. 16 RABBI MILLER: The scriptural 17 reading for this week is taken from the book of 18 Numbers, Chapters 8 through 12. This selection 19 will be read in its entirety on Saturday morning 20 in synagogues throughout the world: 21 And the Lord spoke unto Moses 22 saying, "Speak unto Aaron and say to him, 'When 23 you kindle the lights so that the flames go up 9643 1 the southern lamps will light and give light 2 against the face of the candelabra.'" 3 The Bible then continues: And 4 Aaron did so as God commanded him to do. 5 Our sage's comment is that it is 6 unusual for the Bible to have to take the time 7 to explicitly tell us that Aaron obeyed the will 8 of God. Wouldn't anyone obey God's will? 9 Surely the high priest of Israel would do 10 precisely as he was commanded. 11 Our sages explain that the verse 12 offers us a great insight into the character of 13 Aaron. Aaron obeyed God not only this once but 14 throughout his 39 years of service to the people 15 of Israel in the desert. Aaron, we are told, 16 never lost his enthusiasm for doing even the 17 most routine of functions, the daily lighting of 18 the lamps. 19 Aaron's greatness was his 20 consistent love for God and for the people 21 Israel. He strived to demonstrate that 22 commitment through personal example. 23 When we perform any act 9644 1 repeatedly, no matter how important it initially 2 seems, we run the risk of making it routine or 3 forgetting its great significance; we run the 4 risk of treating a holy task as a bad habit. 5 Other rabbis suggest a second 6 explanation for the verse, "And Aaron did as God 7 commanded." Not only did Aaron change the 8 manner in which he performed the duties of his 9 office, but he didn't change himself. Despite 10 being given the highly public honor of leading a 11 nation, Aaron the high priest continued to be 12 Aaron the father, Aaron the husband, the 13 neighbor, the brother and the friend. He didn't 14 change his character as a result of the public 15 role he assumed. 16 Later in the scriptural reading, 17 we learn that Moses also remained Moses after he 18 became Moses, the law giver, "And the man Moses 19 was exceedingly humble from all the men on the 20 face of the earth." Surely, if anyone had a 21 right to be just a little bit proud, it was 22 Moses, who spoke with God Almighty. 23 What made these brothers great 9645 1 was the constant focus on the responsibilities 2 of their role rather than the power of their 3 office, and we today have a great deal to learn 4 from Moses and Aaron. 5 Almighty God, may the men and 6 women of this great body lead us by their 7 personal example; may they continue to guide in 8 their service to our state so that their hearts 9 remain focused on the holy task they have been 10 granted. May You, dear God, bless them with the 11 greatest gift any public servant can have, the 12 humility and peace of mind to remain true to the 13 ideals that led them to seek office, the 14 enthusiasm to perform even the most routine of 15 legislative functions. 16 Amen. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 18 of the Journal. 19 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 20 Tuesday, June 13th. The Senate met pursuant to 21 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 22 designation of the Temporary President. The 23 Journal of Monday, June 12th, was read and 9646 1 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 3 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 4 read. 5 Presentation of petitions. 6 Messages from the Assembly. 7 Messages from the Governor. 8 Reports of standing committees. 9 Reports of select committees. 10 Communications and reports from 11 state officers. 12 Motions and resolutions. 13 Senator Bruno, we have one 14 substitution. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 16 please make the substitution. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the substitution. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland 20 moves to discharge the Committee on Rules from 21 Assembly Bill Number 4608A and substitute it for 22 the identical Calendar Number 1320. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9647 1 Substitution is ordered. 2 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 4 would you please remove a sponsor's star on 5 Calendar Number 215, Senate Bill 2090C, and 6 Calendar 557, Senate Bill 3069. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Sponsor 8 stars will be removed. 9 Senator Larkin, that brings us to 10 the calendar. What's your pleasure? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 12 can we start with the noncontroversial, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the noncontroversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 15, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 302A, an act 17 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 18 increasing the penalties for loitering. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the first day of 23 November. 9648 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 130, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 724. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act 14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 15 relation to operation of a motor vehicle. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 743, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3827B, an 21 act to authorize the city of Ithaca in the 22 county of Tompkins to discontinue the use of 23 certain real property. 9649 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2 a home rule message at the desk. 3 Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 745, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3909B, an act 15 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira, 16 county of Chemung, to transfer a portion of 17 Diven Park. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 19 a home rule message at the desk. 20 Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 9650 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218A. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 923, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3172B, an act 14 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to extending 15 the additional one percent rate of sales and 16 compensating use taxes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9651 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 937. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 8 local fiscal impact note at the desk. 9 Lay the bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 993, by Senator - 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1214, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1736A, an 17 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 18 Public Service Law. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 20 aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9652 1 1266, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5372, an 2 act to amend Chapter 311 of the Laws of 1920, 3 relating to the assessment and collection of 4 taxes in Suffolk County. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1272, by Senator DiCarlo. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 18 aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1284, by Member of the Assembly Dinowitz. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 9653 1 aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 7 aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1287, by Senator Hannon. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 13 aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an 18 act to amend the Social Services Law. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 20 aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9654 1 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an 2 act to amend the General Obligations Law. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 4 aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an 9 act to amend the Social Services Law. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1297, by Senator Padavan. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1299, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 3520, 20 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 21 relation to the transportation of certain 22 persons. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside. 9655 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1300, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3882B, an 5 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 6 extending the effectiveness of the one percent 7 increase in sales and compensating use taxes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1301, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3883, an act 20 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to imposing a 21 hotel and motel tax in the county of Genesee. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 9656 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1302, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3908, an 11 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation 12 to contracting indebtedness for the abatement of 13 nuisances and other conditions. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 9657 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1303, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4170, an act 3 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the 4 imposition of additional taxes in the county of 5 Ulster. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4509, an 18 act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law, 19 in relation to eliminating limitations on 20 certain corporations. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 9658 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3514A, an 3 act to amend the Executive law, in relation to 4 Fire Prevention and Building Code standards. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1306, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an 10 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 11 to notification of patients. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 13 aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1307, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4811A, an 18 act to authorize and validate the creation of a 19 volunteer fire fighter service award program. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 21 a home rule message at the desk. 22 Secretary will read the last 23 section. 9659 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1308, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4871A, an 11 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the 12 rate of sales and compensating use tax imposed 13 on Greene County. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 9660 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1309, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 4902A, an 3 act in relation to the calculation of average 4 daily attendance and minimum days of session for 5 an experimental kindergarten program. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958A, an 18 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 19 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public 20 Service Commission. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9661 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1311, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4960A, an 10 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, 11 in relation to copyrights. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1312, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5045. 9662 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 2 aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1316, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5308, an act 7 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to 8 continuing the Agricultural Health and Safety 9 Advisory Board. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1317, by Senator Velella. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 23 aside. 9663 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1320, substituted earlier today, by Member of 5 the Assembly Brodsky, Assembly Print 4608A, an 6 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 7 in relation to the taking of Atlantic Menhaden. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1321, by Senator Jones, Senate Print 4546, an 20 act authorizing the town of Irondequoit, Monroe 21 County, to make available to Samuel Soprano, Jr. 22 membership in the 20-year optional retirement 23 plan. 9664 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2 a home rule message at the desk. 3 Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 15 may we return to reports of standing committees 16 for a report from the Judiciary Committee. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before we 18 do that, Senator Stachowski, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 20 President, could we possibly reconsider the vote 21 by which Calendar 1310 passed the house? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is still in the house, Senator Stachowski. 9665 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Could we 2 reconsider the vote and lay the bill aside? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 5 Calendar Number 310 passed the house. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 1310. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- 1310 8 passed the house. 9 The Secretary will call the roll 10 on reconsideration. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958A, an 13 act to amend the Public Service Law. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 15 aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 Now, there is a report of the 19 Judiciary Committee at the desk. I ask the 20 Secretary to read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 22 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 23 following nomination: 9666 1 Donald J. Corbett, of Rochester, 2 for the New York State Court of Claims. 3 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Lack. 6 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 I'm happy to begin a group of six 9 nominations this morning to the New York State 10 Court of Claims nominated by Governor Pataki, a 11 wonderful group of appointees, a very disting 12 uished group of appointees. 13 Mr. President, the lead appointee 14 is a current sitting judge of the Court of 15 Claims, the immediate past Presiding Judge of 16 that court, Donald J. Corbett, of Rochester. 17 He went before the screening 18 committee. He has been nominated by the 19 Governor. His bona fide credentials have been 20 examined by staff of the Judiciary Committee, 21 and this morning he appeared before the 22 committee and was unanimously recommended to the 23 floor for confirmation. 9667 1 And, Mr. President, I would like 2 to yield for purposes of seconding to Senator 3 Michael Nozzolio. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Nozzolio. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 Mr. President. My colleagues. 9 As stated in the Judiciary Committee meeting 10 this morning and will be echoed before us this 11 morning on a number of occasions that the 12 caliber and quality of candidate placed in 13 nomination for the Court of Claims is certainly 14 an excellent one. That cadre of candidates is 15 lead in the first nomination by a renomination 16 of Judge Donald J. Corbett Jr. to serve in 17 continuance of service on the Court of Claims. 18 Judge Corbett was appointed to 19 the Court of Claims in July of 1983 and has 20 served with distinction this last period, during 21 which he rose to the rank of presiding judge of 22 the court. 23 Judge Corbett brings to the court 9668 1 a great wealth of experience and background both 2 in private practice and in public experience. 3 In 1974, he was elected to the Monroe County 4 Family Court and has served in a variety of 5 judicial capacities since that time. 6 During his tenure as a member of 7 the Court of Claims throughout the Central New 8 York and Western New York Region, he has gained 9 and earned the respect of the judiciary in that 10 region. I can attest to many judges who have 11 claimed and commented about Judge Corbett's 12 integrity and his activity relative to 13 strengthening the judiciary in our region. 14 In 1993, Judge Corbett was 15 appointed a member of the New York Judicial 16 Committee on Women in the Courts by Chief Judge 17 Judith Kaye; and along with this experience, I 18 compliment the Governor in this renomination of 19 Judge Corbett to continue on the Court of Claims 20 and urge my colleagues to join in support. 21 Thank you very much. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 question is on the nomination of Donald J. 9669 1 Corbett of Rochester, New York. 2 Excuse me. Senator Dollinger to 3 speak on the nomination. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To speak on 5 the nomination. Don Corbett of Rochester has 6 been a fixture in our legal community for the 7 better part of 25 or 30 years. 8 I note that he went to -- he was 9 a graduate of Aquinas High School and, in 10 deference to Senator Gold, he went to the 11 Cornell of the Midwest, a little school run by 12 the Jesuits out in South Bend, Indiana, from 13 which he graduated. He then went to Albany Law 14 School, an institution that I also call a home, 15 and came to Rochester, practiced in private 16 practice, was elected to the Family Court and 17 then appointed by the prior governor to a seat 18 on the Court of Claims. He has distinguished 19 himself in that position. 20 He has, I think, more than 21 adequately represented the high standards of the 22 Rochester legal community. I applaud Governor 23 Pataki for renominating him. 9670 1 And I will add one other thing, 2 with respect to Senator Velella, who said, "Is 3 there a stenographer present?" when I praised 4 Governor Pataki for his nominees to the bench. 5 I think, based on my experience on the Judiciary 6 Committee, limited and short as it may be, that 7 the nominees that Governor Pataki has put 8 forward to fill vacancies on the Court of 9 Claims, as well as local judicial vacancies, has 10 been of extremely high quality. 11 As someone who has, at times, 12 been critical of the Governor's choices in other 13 areas, I want to announce publicly that I 14 support the Governor's continuing to put quality 15 on the bench in the State of New York so that 16 from top to bottom, from the Court of Appeals, 17 down to the Court of Claims, down to the Supreme 18 Court, down to the Family Court, to all the 19 trial level courts in this state, we will 20 continue to have highly qualified men and women 21 who reflect the best in the Empire State. 22 Judge Donald Corbett is a great 23 example of that. I commend Governor Pataki for 9671 1 reappointing him, and I wish Judge Corbett well 2 in the future. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Volker. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 6 Very briefly, I want to further echo what has 7 been said about the appointments that the 8 Governor has made to the judiciary, and 9 especially I want to say that Don Corbett is 10 recognized as one of the leading judges in all 11 of Upstate New York and the Rochester area, I 12 think, has an immense amount of respect for him, 13 and I want to also say that he is not only a 14 great lawyer and a great judge but a fine 15 gentleman and a wonderful credit to the bench, 16 and I think it was a tremendous appointment by 17 Governor Pataki. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Stafford on the nomination. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 21 probably today we shouldn't be correcting each 22 other, but in South Bend, Jesuits? Oh, no. No, 23 not Jesuits. So I thought we'd just -- however, 9672 1 a very good school. 2 On a serious note, Mr. President, 3 many of us, including myself, have gotten to 4 know Don Corbett very well, as has been said 5 here today. He is an excellent lawyer. He's a 6 hard worker. He is approachable, and he's got 7 that sense, frankly, that all six do here today, 8 of making decisions, proper decisions, and we're 9 fortunate that he is continuing on the Court of 10 Claims. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 question is on the nomination of Donald J. 13 Corbett, of Rochester, New York, to become a 14 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims. 15 All those in favor of the 16 nomination, signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The nominee is unanimously 21 confirmed. 22 Judge Corbett has joined us in 23 the chamber to your left in the gallery. 9673 1 Judge Corbett, congratulations on 2 your reappointment. Thanks for joining us. 3 (Applause.) 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 6 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 7 following nomination: James Preston King of 8 Ticonderoga, judge of the New York State Court 9 of Claims. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 11 recognizes Senator Lack. 12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I proudly rise to move the 15 nomination of James Preston King, for the next 16 couple of minutes anyway, a member of the New 17 York State Assembly, as a judge of the Court of 18 Claims. 19 I'm going to yield to his 20 longtime friend, Senator Stafford, in a moment, 21 but I can't help but take notice of the presence 22 of the Minority Leader of the Assembly in this 23 chamber and a whole passel of members of the 9674 1 Assembly standing behind me, who I assume are 2 here this morning in testament to their long 3 time friend and colleague, Jim King. 4 So it's a privilege, Mr. 5 President, for me to stand up and tell you that 6 the Judiciary Committee unanimously moves the 7 recommendation of Jim King today, having been 8 found well qualified by the screening committee 9 and nominated for the position of judge of the 10 Court of Claims by Governor George Pataki, in 11 another excellent appointment. 12 Mr. President, I would yield to 13 Senator Stafford for purposes of a second. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 15 recognizes Senator Stafford. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 This is one of the most pleasant 19 days that I have had in the few years that I 20 have been here in the Senate. Some people 21 sometimes say, "Why do you say the same thing 22 all the time?" And I tell them, "Because I 23 haven't got anything else to say," but the point 9675 1 is, as we've said about the Governor's 2 nominations and appointments, they have been 3 excellent, and we stand here day after day 4 saying these are of the best nominations that 5 could have been made, and these are today. 6 James King is no exception. He 7 served in the Marine Corps, and he rose to the 8 rank of General. We could just stop there, 9 because how many get to be a General? But he 10 was the Judge Advocate of the Marine Corps, 11 responsibility for all the legal work in the 12 Marine Corps during a very, very difficult time 13 in our history, during the Korean and Vietnam 14 War Era. 15 Jim has been a law professor at 16 Stetson University. He also has been an 17 assistant to a Supreme Court Justice, and I 18 could go on and on. Finally, one day, he said 19 he was going to run for the Assembly, and I said 20 to him, "Well, you are better than any of us in 21 the Legislature," and he proved I was right. He 22 got down here and he worked hard, respected, so 23 well liked, and now ascends to the bench. 9676 1 As I said and so many have said, 2 the Governor could have made no better choice, 3 and for Jim and his family, today it's a great 4 day. But it's also a great day for the State of 5 New York to have Jim King on the Court of 6 Claims. New York will be better for his past 7 efforts and for his future efforts, and we all 8 congratulate him. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 10 recognizes Senator Gold on the nomination. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, thank you. 12 Mr. President. There are six 13 nominees, and they had a wonderful start with 14 the Presiding Judge, former Senator Mega, 15 telling us about them. But I was looking 16 through the list, and Judge Brunetti I didn't 17 have a problem with because he is from Syracuse 18 and he knows my former roommate from law school; 19 and, of course, Judge Corbett is a legend, that 20 wasn't a problem. Mr. Midey was a former 21 legislative counsel which I respect, so that 22 wasn't a problem. Ron Tills I knew from the 23 Assembly, and Judge Ruderman with her M.A. from 9677 1 Cornell is no problem. 2 But, with Mr. King, I didn't know 3 what to do, so I decided to consult the highest 4 possible authority available, and since 5 Assemblyman Rappleyea said to go for it, I'm 6 going to do that. Thank you, Assemblyman. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Farley, on the nomination. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 I rise to support the nomination 12 of Jim King, a true renaissance man, a guy that 13 not only grew up in humble circumstances but 14 went on to distinguish himself in so many 15 different avenues, as a law professor, assistant 16 attorney general, as a General in the Marine 17 Corps, as a combat veteran. 18 As a distinguished Assemblyman, 19 he served as one of my Assembly people in Fulton 20 County and Montgomery County in several areas 21 that I represent, and I never saw anybody in 22 their first year in the Legislature accomplish 23 so much and do so much as Jim King did. 9678 1 He is not only a splendid person 2 and a delightful person to be around, he is a 3 great family man, has a beautiful family and a 4 lovely wife, who is with him today up in the 5 gallery. 6 But it's a terrible loss. I see 7 all these Assemblymen all over the chamber 8 here. I don't know whether they are for or 9 against him, because I'm sure they don't like to 10 lose him to the chamber over there, but I'm sure 11 that everyone in this chamber, including your 12 colleagues, is thrilled and happy for you, Jim. 13 I'm going to vote 14 enthusiastically for his appointment to the 15 Court of Claims, and the state of New York is 16 very, very grateful for the service that you 17 have given us and, not only that, but the 18 service you have given to your country. 19 Best wishes to you, Jim. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leibell on the nomination. 22 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 9679 1 I could not let this opportunity 2 pass by without rising to comment on this 3 nomination. I have had the chance to speak here 4 previously on Governor Pataki's nominations, and 5 he has certainly, without question, sent us some 6 excellent men and women to serve New York State, 7 but, as was noted, we have someone here today 8 who is particularly special and who is someone 9 that myself and my family consider to be a close 10 and dear friend. 11 It's been noted that Jim King has 12 had a distinguished career, a great military 13 career in that naval service, the Marine Corps. 14 He served as the senior Marine Corps attorney, 15 as was noted, during some very difficult times 16 and, rather than retiring to the South or the 17 Southwest, he came back to the state of his 18 origin and continued and expanded upon his 19 career of public service. 20 I think it says something that we 21 have so many of my former colleagues who are 22 here today and, while they do not have the 23 opportunity to speak as I do now, I know they 9680 1 are here and share my thoughts as does our 2 leader "Rap" Rappleyea in expressing our great 3 affection for Jim King. He certainly was one of 4 those people who came into the Legislature and 5 by his character and skill and good humor 6 changed the course of many of our activities and 7 certainly created a finer Legislature than it 8 might otherwise have been. 9 I am very pleased to stand here 10 today and support this nomination. It's an 11 excellent one, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Larkin on the nomination. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 15 I proudly rise to second the nomination of Jim 16 King for the Court of Claims. 17 Some of you in this chamber 18 remember Desert Storm, when we were trying to 19 find out how to protect the families of those 20 individuals who were called to active duty 24, 21 48, 72 hours notice, one of the compelling 22 problems was, how do we protect the families. 23 In some of the insurance plans, the little group 9681 1 policy written up, it didn't provide any 2 protection for those families and none of them 3 knew about it. 4 I went to Jim King, because I 5 knew that General King had been in the Judge 6 Advocate -- he was the Judge Advocate of the 7 Marine Corps, a highly sought position and only 8 few can serve. I went to Jim King, and we sat 9 down, and we went over what we were trying to do 10 with the law, how we would protect these 11 families that were unprotected because there was 12 no facilities for them where they were called up 13 from to use the military facilities. 14 Jim King suggested I call a Navy 15 captain in the Pentagon. 16 Thanks, Jim. 17 I called him and, after 18 discussion, he faxed me some material of how 19 this could be accomplished. He said, "By the 20 way, why did King tell you to call me?" 21 "He said he thought you should 22 know." 23 He said, "No, Senator, you got it 9682 1 wrong. General King wrote this directive to 2 protect families of those who were called up." 3 General King isn't just another 4 ordinary individual that served three terms 5 here. I don't know how many of you ever been a 6 young lieutenant in a foxhole. He's been 7 there. I don't know how many of you ever needed 8 an excellent trombone player. He's been there. 9 He's been a friend, a colleague; 10 and I know, as Vin Leibell said, our colleagues 11 from the other house that were with us with Jim 12 would like to speak but, as I just told Gordon, 13 the Governor took a round peg and put it in a 14 round hole to make this system work. Jim King 15 is the right person for the right job at the 16 right time. 17 General, I congratulate you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Stachowski on the nomination. 20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I, too, rise 21 to second the nomination of Jim King. 22 I don't know him all that well, 23 but I did have the pleasure of serving with him 9683 1 on the Ethics Commission, which most of you 2 would agree isn't really a pleasure. But he 3 always had a nice word and was nice to everybody 4 that came and very cordial, and he showed a 5 quiet dignity that I think will serve him very 6 well as a judge. 7 And I would like to point out 8 that I think one of the reasons all those 9 Assemblymen are here is to make sure that "Rap" 10 sees them here supporting King so that he won't 11 pick them to be the next person on the Ethics 12 Commission. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leichter on the nomination. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 as many of you know, I'm very fortunate to have 17 a country home up in the North Country and, 18 therefore, I have had a wonderful summer Senator 19 representing me, Ron Stafford; but I have also 20 had, and I'm afraid about to lose, a wonderful 21 summer Assembly member in Jim King. 22 I think it says something of the 23 North Country that they can produce such 9684 1 outstanding leaders as Senator Stafford and 2 General King. 3 But let me tell you, if we're 4 judged by the people who know us best, you can't 5 get a better grade than Jim King. He is really 6 beloved in the North Country. They know him as 7 the gentleman he is, as the fair person he is, 8 as the one who provides service, and the thing 9 that has always impressed me about Jim King is 10 that he is so unassuming and yet he leads, by 11 the force of his personality, by the example 12 that he sets, and I think he is going to be just 13 an excellent addition to the Court of Claims. 14 As an old trial attorney, I would 15 want to be before a judge like Jim King, who is 16 going to be fair and firm, who is going to 17 listen to you and is going to do the right 18 thing. 19 It's really an excellent 20 appointment the Governor has made. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Hoblock on the nomination. 23 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Thank you, Mr. 9685 1 President. I am, indeed, proud to rise and join 2 with so many others in seconding the nomination 3 of Jim King as judge of the New York State Court 4 of Claims. 5 You know, so much has been said 6 about Jim and, you know, there's a saying in the 7 service that, if you're an officer, you become a 8 gentleman and, particularly, if you are a flag 9 officer, by act of Congress you become a 10 gentleman. 11 Well, in the case of Jim King, it 12 certainly did not take an act of Congress to 13 make Jim a gentleman and, as has been said here, 14 he has been very unassuming. 15 I knew Jim first by reputation as 16 a member of the Marine Corps and his rise 17 through the ranks to become the Judge Advocate 18 General, which there is only one position for 19 that in the United States Marine Corps, and Jim 20 rose to that position, and that was because of 21 his character, his integrity and his work as an 22 officer in the United States military. 23 And then he went on to serve his 9686 1 state, and I got to know him a little bit better 2 when he was in the Attorney General's office, 3 and the one thing that we all spoke about at the 4 Judiciary Committee is that, when you think of 5 Jim King, you think of the word "gentleman", and 6 that's what Jim is. 7 He has truly served everyone who 8 has come in touch with him, and he has 9 correspondingly served his country, his town, 10 his county, his state, and now he goes on to sit 11 in judgment where he truly belongs, and it does 12 give me great pleasure to join with so many 13 others to congratulate my good friend, Jim King, 14 in seconding his nomination. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Wright on the nomination. 17 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I, too, join my colleagues to 20 rise and second the nomination of Jim King. 21 One of the unique opportunities 22 that you have as a member of the Senate is to 23 vote on confirmation matters and to cast your 9687 1 vote for individuals of the caliber of Jim 2 King. 3 Jim and I have had the 4 opportunity now to serve together representing 5 the North Country as colleagues here for the 6 last three years and, throughout that tenure, he 7 has been, as he has been throughout his career, 8 a gentleman, a scholar, and certainly his legal 9 career is testimony to his qualifications to the 10 bench. 11 But all of that aside, what Jim's 12 career has exemplified is that of a dedicated 13 public servant, and I think that's more 14 important in terms of the caliber of the 15 individuals that we place on our bench. 16 So I'm very proud to be here and 17 rise in support of the nomination, encourage my 18 colleagues to join with me in voting to confirm 19 Jim King, and extend our best wishes and 20 congratulations to him. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Sears on the nomination. 23 SENATOR SEARS: Thank you very 9688 1 much, Mr. President. 2 I, too, want to be very brief in 3 seconding the nomination of Jim King to be a 4 Court of Claims judge. It has all been said. 5 There's nothing that I could add to the 6 accolades that have been said here today, and 7 I'm happy to join my former colleagues in the 8 Assembly who are not over here and also the ones 9 that are who have moved over. 10 We're all so proud of you, Jim. 11 Godspeed. I know you're going to do a great 12 job. It's great to have served with you as a 13 member from the North Country. I'm very happy 14 to second the nomination of Jim King for Court 15 of Claims Judge. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 17 any other member wishing to speak on the 18 nomination? 19 (There was no response.) 20 Hearing none, the question is on 21 the nomination of James Preston King to become a 22 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims. 23 All those in favor, signify by 9689 1 saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The nominee is unanimously 6 confirmed. 7 Judge King is joining us in the 8 chamber. Also with him are his wife, Jane, his 9 son Jim and his wife Lisa, his sons David and 10 Glenn and his sisters Ruth Mullaney and Carolyn 11 Charleton. I think the rest of Ticonderoga is 12 here also. 13 Judge, congratulations on your 14 new appointment. We wish you well. 15 (Applause.) 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 18 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 19 following nomination: Nicholas Midey, Jr. of 20 Seneca Falls. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Lack. 23 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 9690 1 President. 2 I rise to move the nomination of 3 Nicholas Midey, Jr. of Seneca Falls as judge of 4 the New York State Court of Claims. Once again, 5 he's been examined by the committee, endorsed 6 unanimously by the committee. His credentials 7 have been examined by the committee staff. He 8 has passed the steering committee appointed by 9 the Governor and has been nominated by the 10 Governor, and it's with extreme pleasure, 11 because now I don't have to hear from Senator 12 Nozzolio every day on what's happening, that I 13 ask Senator Nozzolio to please second the 14 nomination. 15 I yield to him. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Nozzolio on the nomination. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 And thank you, Senator Lack, for 21 the tremendous leadership you have shown as 22 chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and I think 23 it cannot be overstated that the caliber of 9691 1 judge who this Senate is reviewing today in each 2 of the nominees is the par excellence that I 3 believe this court has never seen before, and 4 that I rise, Mr. President, my colleagues, in 5 endorsement of Nicholas Midey, Jr. as a nominee 6 of Governor George Pataki for justice of the New 7 York State Court of Claims, and it is with the 8 most tremendous pleasure that I do so. 9 We rise often on behalf of 10 nominees that we represent or know. I rise 11 today with not only the knowledge of this 12 nominee but an intimate friendship and kinship 13 with him throughout my entire life. We both 14 went to school together. We both played on 15 athletic teams together. We worked together, 16 played together, grew up together, and lived in 17 one of the best small towns the Empire State has 18 in its jurisdiction. 19 During these last few years, I 20 have sought the counsel of Nick on a number of 21 occasions both during my tenure as an 22 Assemblyman and here, in service in this great 23 body. I found Nick Midey to be extremely 9692 1 conscientious, an excellent public servant, a 2 successful private attorney, a selfless 3 community volunteer and a dedicated husband and 4 father. 5 He is a lifelong resident of my 6 hometown of Seneca Falls, a graduate of Miners 7 Academy, Georgetown University, and the Syracuse 8 University College of Law. He went home to 9 practice law in a very successful law practice 10 and worked very hard, working with the people of 11 our community, the institutions of our 12 community, and served in areas of municipal law, 13 banking law and criminal law, and working for 14 14 years as Seneca Falls and Seneca County's Public 15 Defender, for 12 years as Seneca Falls Town 16 Attorney. 17 During his private practice also 18 found time to volunteer, to serve on the very 19 important Committee on Character and Fitness for 20 applications to admission to the State of New 21 York State Bar for the Fourth Department, one of 22 the only small town attorneys to have that 23 distinction. Also Nick worked very hard on the 9693 1 Fourth Department's Committee on Gender 2 Fairness, a particularly significant position, 3 because in that his hometown is the birth place 4 of women's rights in this nation. Nick worked 5 on that committee and sought very high - 6 received very high marks as a result of that 7 involvement. 8 I believe, Mr. President, my 9 colleagues, by advancing this nomination, the 10 Governor has shown -- and I believe 11 significantly to his credit -- that he 12 understands and appreciates the hands-on, 13 personally-oriented, people-oriented experience 14 that a small town lawyer can bring to the 15 bench. 16 Something I believe that is 17 extremely important is service to people, 18 service to people in everyday opportunities, and 19 that service can only enhance the bench, can 20 only serve to make our judiciary a more 21 responsive one and one that we all can continue 22 to be proud of. Nick Midey has served his 23 clients, his neighbors, his family and his 9694 1 employers with marked excellence and 2 distinction, and it befits me and it befits him 3 to serve on a place on the New York State Court 4 of Claims, one of the highest courts in this 5 country, one of the most distinctive courts in 6 this nation. 7 Nick will bring a perspective and 8 an energy and an enthusiasm unparalleled, in my 9 view. Mr. President, I can not overstate my 10 honor and my happiness in bringing this 11 nomination to the Senate, and I urge my 12 colleagues to support the nomination of Nicholas 13 Midey, Jr. to the New York State Court of 14 Claims. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 17 nomination? 18 (There was no response.) 19 Hearing none, the question is on 20 the nomination of Nicholas Midey, Jr. of Seneca 21 Falls to the position of judge of the New York 22 State Court of Claims. 23 All those in favor, signify by 9695 1 saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The nominee is unanimously 6 confirmed. 7 We are happy to be joined by Nick 8 Midey, who is in the gallery above us to your 9 left, and his wife, Marie. 10 Nick, congratulations and good 11 luck. 12 (Applause.) 13 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 15 may we now please take up Resolution 1619, 16 sponsored by Senator Velella. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 18 return to motions and resolutions. I will ask 19 the Secretary to read the resolution in its 20 entirety. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Velella and all members of the Senate, 23 Legislative Resolution, commending the New York 9696 1 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force for its 2 initiative in responding to the disaster in 3 Oklahoma City. 4 Whereas, It is the sense of this 5 Assembled Body that those who give positive 6 definition to the profile and disposition of the 7 communities of our nation do so profoundly 8 strengthen our shared commitment to the exercise 9 of freedom; and 10 Whereas, Attendant to such 11 concern and fully in accord with its 12 longstanding traditions it is the intent of this 13 Assembled Body to commend the New York Urban 14 Search and Rescue Task Force for its initiative 15 in responding to the disaster in Oklahoma City; 16 and 17 Whereas, The New York Urban 18 Search and Rescue Task Force NY TF-1 came into 19 existence about three years ago as the result of 20 a need to augment local emergency response 21 personnel at the scene of catastrophic 22 emergencies throughout the United States; and 23 Whereas, Federal Emergency 9697 1 Management Agency defined the need to have a 2 rapid mobilization, NY TF-1 can, within six 3 hours of notification and activation, travel to 4 a point of departure with an entire cache of 5 rescue, logistical, technical, communication and 6 medical equipment that will be necessary to 7 operate independently for ten days or longer; 8 and 9 Whereas, as part of the 10 deployment, 58 skilled and experienced personnel 11 from New York City's fire, police and emergency 12 medical services operate as a single team; the 13 team's knowledge, skills and experience are 14 broad and extensive in search, rescue, heavy 15 rigging, structural collapse, hazardous 16 materials, K-9 search and emergency medical 17 care. 18 All members of NY TF-1 are 19 veterans of the World Trade Center bombing and 20 some task force members operated at the 21 Bridgeport building collapse in Connecticut 22 several years back. 23 Under the leadership of the Mayor 9698 1 of the City of New York, Rudolph W. Giuliani, 2 the NY TF-1 members were dispatched to Oklahoma 3 City in response to the devastating events to 4 help provide relief at the bomb site. 5 Upon activation for the Oklahoma 6 City bombing, the NY TF-1 mobilized and 7 deployed, operating the first 35 hours without 8 relief; after being relieved, NY TF-1 began 9 working 12-hour shifts from 1900 hours to 0700 10 hours until ordered to stand down. 11 During the search and recovery 12 operations, NY TF-1 recovered approximately 30 13 percent of all victims and identified the 14 location of a significant number of other 15 victims; this is extraordinary considering 10 16 other FEMA Task Forces operated in the same 17 area. 18 Members of the New York City 19 Urban Search and Rescue Task Force are: Fire 20 Department: Raymond Downey, John O'Connell, 21 Craig Shelley, Jack Fanning, Edward Beban, Terry 22 Hatton, John Ferry, William J. McCarthy, James 23 Ellson, Michael Milner, Timothy Brown, Stephen 9699 1 J. Casani, Michael Esposito, Peter Martin, 2 Kenneth Memmen, Philip H. McArdle, Billy Lake, 3 John V. Tighe, Steve Spall, Kevin Dowdell, 4 Richard Evers, Al Fuentes, Hugo Herold, Dan 5 McDonough, Sam Melisi; Police Department: 6 Donald LaSalla, Curt Wargo, John McArdle, 7 Timothy Farrell, James Buscemi, Juan Garcia, 8 John English, Michael Corr, Dennis O'Connell, 9 Kenneth Winkler, Peter Conlin, Manuel Hernandez, 10 Mark D. Rippel, Michael Hanson, Michael Curtain, 11 Charles Ruppert, Thomas Rowe, Eric Becker, 12 Joseph Amato, Lawrence Johnston, Thomas Langone, 13 Kevin Clark, John Ryan, Michael Berg, Stephen 14 Berger, Michael Firgurski, Robert Schnelle; and 15 Emergency Medical Service: Charles Wells, James 16 Booth, Carl Tramantana, Raymond Bonner, Dario 17 Gonzalez and Michael Kindschuh; and 18 Whereas, through their valiant 19 concern for the victims of the Oklahoma City 20 disaster, the members of the New York Urban 21 Search and Rescue Task Force have so unselfishly 22 advanced that spirit of united purpose and 23 shared concerned which is the unalterable 9700 1 manifestation of our American experience; now 2 therefore be it 3 Resolved, That this Assembled 4 Body pause in its deliberations and most proudly 5 commend the New York Urban Search and Rescue 6 Task Force for its initiative in responding to 7 the disaster in Oklahoma City, fully confident 8 that such procedure mirrors our shared 9 commitment to preserve, to enhance, and to yet 10 effect that patrimony of freedom which is our 11 American heritage; and be it further 12 Resolved, That a copy of this 13 Resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 14 to the New York Urban Search and Rescue Task 15 Force. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator Velella on the resolution. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 19 April 19, 1995, was the day that shocked 20 everybody across the world. The vulnerability 21 of each and every one of us as a victim of 22 whether it be terrorism or natural disasters was 23 brought home to each and every one of us. 9701 1 As a response, our nation called 2 upon 25 teams from 17 states to address the 3 problem of the Oklahoma bombing and help search 4 for the bodies that were there and help save 5 lives. 6 New York State was pleased in 7 having one of those teams from the City of New 8 York which consisted of 58 men who are here with 9 us today, men that came from the fire depart 10 ment, the police department and the emergency 11 medical services of the city of New York. They 12 were ready to respond. They worked diligently. 13 Their first shift was a 35-hour shift working in 14 that building trying to recover bodies. After 15 they took a break from that 35-hour shift, they 16 worked successive 12-hour shifts searching for 17 bodies, searching for people, saving lives. 18 We're all very much aware of the 19 fact that, whether it be a natural disaster or 20 an act of terrorism, this can strike anywhere at 21 any time, whether it be us or one of our loved 22 ones, these are the people who stand ready 24 23 hours a day to respond at their own personal 9702 1 danger to help save lives and recover bodies. 2 I certainly am proud to say that 3 they are here with us today and, while we're 4 happy to see them, just pause for a moment and 5 think of the people trapped in that building 6 that were even happier to see their faces as 7 they were reached and their lives were saved 8 because of the dedication of these men. 9 I ask you to join with me in 10 giving them a welcome from the Senate and ask 11 them to stand and receive our accolades. 12 Thank you for a job well done. 13 (Standing ovation.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 15 recognizes Senator Paterson on the resolution. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 to speak on behalf of the Minority. 18 As Senator Velella said, April 19 26th is a date that will mark one of the great 20 disasters in American history and certainly the 21 one that claimed the most lives in one single 22 incident. I'm sorry, April 19th is the date 23 that that occurred. April 26th, one week later, 9703 1 we gaveled in at 10:00 a.m. in the morning to 2 observe the national silence. The Majority 3 Leader had us gavel in early that particular day 4 in recognition of that tragic event. 5 And so these individuals of 6 distinction from the police department, the fire 7 department, and the emergency medical services, 8 not only served with great honor but also served 9 with great distinction, as the resolution says. 10 These individuals recovered actually 30 percent 11 of the bodies that were recovered in that 12 disaster in spite of the fact that there were 13 eight other FEMA (Federal Emergency Management 14 Administration) teams that were present at that 15 particular time. 16 What they didn't say was how many 17 lives they actually saved and how many people 18 they helped. They can't put a count on that and 19 can't assess a value to that tremendous 20 service. One of the saddest things I ever read 21 were about the individuals who were part of the 22 recovery teams after the Beirut bombing in 1983, 23 after the tragic air disaster of PanAm Flight 9704 1 103 in December 1988, and, of course, the 2 situation with the World Trade Center where 3 there weren't as many lives lost but, in 1979, 4 the Jonestown massacre, and those rescue teams 5 that went to those areas, many of them incurred 6 psychological damage from having to dig through 7 the remains and remove the bodies and also 8 accept the senselessness of the tragedy. 9 These individuals who went to 10 Oklahoma City knew of the disasters that had 11 occurred before, and they went to Oklahoma City 12 with the understanding that not only were their 13 lives at risk but even their psychological 14 nature was at risk, but they went anyway and 15 they fought and they suffered and they paid and 16 they worked, at one point, 35 hours without any 17 rest or delay, and they certainly have earned 18 our gratitude, our respect, and certainly our 19 admiration, and all of us want to lend our 20 voices to those who are in recognition of their 21 heroic efforts that we celebrate today. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Abate on the resolution. 9705 1 SENATOR ABATE: As former 2 Commissioner of the New York City Department of 3 Correction and also the Department of Probation, 4 I have had the honor to work directly with the 5 New York City Police Department, the Fire 6 Department and the Emergency Medical Services. 7 I have seen first-hand and close up their 8 dedication and courage. We know it in New York 9 City, and I'm extremely proud that this august 10 body today is paying recognition to the 11 extraordinary efforts that you all gave in 12 Oklahoma City. 13 So I join with my colleagues and 14 commend you and applaud you; because it's 15 because of your actions, you are willing to 16 serve the people not just in New York State but 17 people who are in need throughout this country. 18 It is because of your efforts lives were saved, 19 and we're eternally grateful to you. 20 Thank you very much. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Padavan on the resolution. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 9706 1 President. 2 I would like to join with my 3 colleagues who have already spoken to echo their 4 gratitude to these men who reflect the very best 5 of the very finest police force in the world. 6 It's unfortunate from time to time we see 7 newspaper reports that sensationalize some of 8 the things that happen that should not have 9 happened; but as we look up at these brave 10 individuals and men who put themselves on the 11 line, we know that the 38,000 some-odd men and 12 women who serve in the police components in the 13 city of New York that they are indeed the 14 nation's finest, and not only in this instance 15 did they demonstrate their courage and 16 commitment to their responsibilities but, as 17 Senator Paterson pointed out, that is their 18 heritage and their history. 19 And so I'm delighted to be among 20 all of you who stand here and to express my 21 gratitude, not only for what you did because 22 that speaks for itself but, most importantly, 23 for what you are and that all too often is not 9707 1 made clear in the general public. So thank you, 2 each and every one of you, particularly those 3 from the 11th Senatorial District. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 5 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 6 resolution? 7 Senator Waldon on the resolution. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 9 much, Mr. President. 10 Having served in the city of New 11 York for 13 years as a police officer with the 12 New York City Housing Authority Police Depart 13 ment I have a sensitivity and an awareness of 14 what you do perhaps better than many of my 15 colleagues. I know the drill from John Jay, 16 having graduated from that school as well. I 17 know the drill from Quantico with the FBI 18 Academy, having been there on three different 19 occasions. But it is impossible for anyone who 20 has not served as a law enforcement person to 21 understand not only the dangers you face but the 22 camaraderie which builds because each of you 23 with your partner faces danger in a special way 9708 1 not known to other citizens, and so we're here 2 today to applaud you, to show our gratitude and 3 to be very grateful not only on behalf of our 4 constituents but ourselves, because you 5 gentlemen -- and I don't see any ladies up 6 there, but ladies as well -- are the first line 7 of defense. You are truly the modern day good 8 Samaritans, and we all owe you a great debt. 9 Thank you very much. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 resolution was previously adopted but, on behalf 12 of Senator Velella, Senator Bruno, the Majority 13 Leader of this house, all the members of the 14 chamber, I would like to personally congratulate 15 you, all of you, on your effort. I commend you 16 for your commitment, your dedication and your 17 service above self. You are truly the example 18 of the best of the best, the volunteers that 19 this country has to offer, and we thank you for 20 your commitment and thank you for coming and 21 joining us and sharing just a moment of your 22 lifetime with those of us in the New York State 23 Senate. We applaud you. 9709 1 Thank you for being here. 2 (Applause.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Larkin. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 6 may we now return to reports from the Judiciary 7 Committee. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 9 return to the reports of standing committees. 10 Ask the Secretary to continue to read the report 11 of the Judiciary Committee. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Lack, from the Committee on Judiciary, reports 14 the following nomination: Ronald H. Tills of 15 Hamburg, New York State Court of Claims. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Lack. 18 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 It's again my privilege to rise 21 to move the nomination of Ronald H. Tills of 22 Hamburg as a Judge of the New York State Court 23 of Claims, a distinguished former member of the 9710 1 Assembly, and we continue to be joined by the 2 Assembly Minority Leader, Assemblyman Rappleyea, 3 and Assemblyman Reynolds. 4 And, to second and further 5 describe to you the illustrious career of Ron 6 Tills, one who knows him best, I most respect 7 fully yield to Senator Volker. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 9 recognizes Senator Volker. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 11 Let me -- I always tell the truth. 12 Let me just say that it is a very 13 happy and proud day for many of us who have 14 known Ron Tills for so many years and, as I said 15 to my Assembly colleague, Tom Reynolds, Ron 16 Tills is sort of like the godfather of our 17 Republican delegation in Erie County. For 18 instance, he brought Tom Reynolds to Albany, who 19 is now not only a distinguished Assemblyman but 20 also is our county Republican chairman. 21 He also is a person who -- the 22 first person actually to call me and suggest to 23 a young police officer who was working in the 9711 1 village of Depew at the time that maybe he 2 should run for the Assembly. 3 Well, I made that decision and 4 Ron sort of guided me through my two years of 5 the Assembly before I came over here, as 6 somebody said, "escaped from the big house," and 7 came over here to the Senate. 8 But let me say that not only is 9 Ron Tills my friend and a former colleague - 10 and, of course, "Rap" Rappleyea is here, the 11 Minority Leader, who came to the Assembly with 12 me also, and served with Ron for a number of 13 years -- not only is he a friend and a former 14 colleague but also an excellent attorney, a 15 former town justice, town attorney, one of the 16 leading attorneys in upstate New York. 17 His firm, in fact, and Ron 18 personally and his firm have practiced law for 19 as many years as I can remember. In fact, my 20 father and myself dealt with Ron and his firm 21 for a long, long time. 22 I can't think of a better 23 appointment to the Court of Claims. In fact, as 9712 1 we have previously said, the group that is being 2 appointed today is just such a class group that 3 I think it gives tremendous respect to the 4 Judiciary, and it's pretty clear, I think, that 5 the Governor really has made just tremendous 6 appointments. 7 To Ron, let me just say my very 8 best for the future. I know you will make an 9 excellent judge and although we had missed you 10 from your days in the Assembly, I know you will 11 grace the bench, and you and Beth, I'm sure, 12 will have a much more regular schedule now maybe 13 in the court. My very best to you and to the 14 whole family and Godspeed. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Rath on the nomination. 17 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I rise, as has Senator Volker, to 20 second the nomination of Ronald H. Tills to the 21 New York State Court of Claims. 22 Ron, for those of you who do not 23 know -- I think Dale probably said it -- is from 9713 1 Erie County, but the town of Hamburg wouldn't 2 have said that, and you wouldn't have known 3 that. But let me just tell you a tiny bit about 4 Erie County. We kind of divide up into north 5 towns and south towns, and Ron and Beth are from 6 the south towns. Dale is from the east, and I'm 7 from the north towns, but that hasn't at all 8 stopped us from knowing each other and working 9 together and being friends for many years. 10 I'm so happy to see "Rap" 11 Rappleyea here and Ron's friend and colleague 12 Tom Reynolds, who is also another son of the 13 south towns, as it were. 14 Let me tell you little bit about 15 Ron. Ron is one of these people who I think I 16 could pay one of the highest compliments that 17 has ever been said to someone, and it was said 18 about someone recently, and I thought, "Now, 19 there is a phrase you can't say about everyone," 20 but Ron is one of these people who never met 21 anyone he didn't know. He never met anyone he 22 didn't know, because inside the first five 23 seconds he's established something with you that 9714 1 is of mutual interest and he is drawing you into 2 his circle of light, as it were. This is the 3 Ron Tills, the man that I know. 4 Dale has spoken eloquently about 5 Ron's credentials. Now, I'm going to speak a 6 little bit about the Ron I know. His resume 7 that you have all had the opportunity to look at 8 has no less than 25 civic and fraternal 9 organizations. I have come to know Ron and Beth 10 very closely through a fraternal organization. 11 Ron will be in, I'm sure, proudly so, the 12 Potentate of Ismalia Temple within another year 13 or two. In these kinds of organizations as many 14 of you have served, you know that very often 15 there are leaders who tell people what they 16 think should be done, and the people go out and 17 do them, and that's one kind of leader. There 18 are other kinds of leaders who work with people 19 deciding what needs to be done, and they go out 20 and they work side by side with the people who 21 are doing, quote, "the dog work." That's the 22 kind of leader Ron Tills has always been in his 23 professional and in his personal life. It's a 9715 1 very important quality. 2 Inside the 25 organizations that 3 Ron has listed, there were some that were kind 4 of buried in the middle, and not because Ron 5 wasn't proud of them, but I'm going to talk 6 about them: Hamburg Men's Garden Club, the 7 American Fresh Garlic Association, and the Erie 8 County Farm Bureau. 9 Now, what does that say about Ron 10 Tills, the man? Well, first of all, I have to 11 tell you Ron specializes in garlic and hot 12 peppers. So if any of you have an interest, we 13 have an expert who is about to be on the bench, 14 and he might have a little more time to share 15 some of his expertise. But gardening has long 16 been a simile that people have used in conversa 17 tions to talk about a person's characteristics. 18 There's a gentleness and a caringness about this 19 person, Ron Tills, that comes from his interest, 20 longstanding, in people and in the things of the 21 earth. In the south towns in Erie County is 22 where everything grows. You're right next to 23 Eden Valley, and I had a lot of relatives who 9716 1 were from Eden Valley, so I know about the south 2 towns' interest in growing things. 3 The bench and the bar in Erie 4 County are delighted. You have reason to know 5 that I would have reason to talk with lots of 6 folks from the bench and the bar. When your 7 nomination came through, Ron, the bench and bar 8 were delighted, because they have a way -- and 9 you among lawyers know that they evaluate judges 10 very quickly and very systematically as to how 11 they work with these various judges. You are 12 rated before you even get there as going to be a 13 superb judge, one the bar is delighted to be 14 seeing coming to Erie County, and one that the 15 bench is delighted to welcome as a colleague. 16 And in my final comment, I would 17 indicate -- Senator Larkin mentioned on Judge 18 King's nomination, and it's something that women 19 don't relate to very easily, about the foxhole. 20 This is a man kind of a phrase, but in my office 21 we have a number of women who work together and 22 we periodically get into a political foxhole, 23 and when we're in a foxhole, we point out people 9717 1 that we think would be good to work with when 2 we're in the foxhole, and, Ron, I want you to 3 know you won't be able to go there any more 4 because you are going to be on the bench, but I 5 would have always welcomed you in a foxhole that 6 I had to fight my way out of because you would 7 have been the kind of colleague, and are the 8 kind of colleague, that we've all worked with 9 and I'm sure "Rap" and Tom could attest to that. 10 Good luck, Godspeed, and welcome 11 to the bench. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Maziarz on the nomination. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Mr. President, I rise in support 17 of the nomination of a fine Western New Yorker. 18 As a former County Clerk in Niagara County, I 19 had the occasion to deal with many attorneys in 20 Western New York and when the rumor started 21 circulating shortly after last January 1st that 22 Ron Tills was under consideration for 23 appointment to the Court of Claims, there was 9718 1 probably not any attorney that ever had a 2 negative word to say about Ron. He is very well 3 respected in the legal community not only in 4 Erie County but in all of Western New York and, 5 as Senator Rath has alluded to, a fine record of 6 community service. I see the volunteer fire 7 service in there amongst his work with the 8 Masonic fraternity, the Lion's Club. Just a 9 fine record not only on the bench but of 10 community service. 11 Ron Tills also has the 12 distinction, as Senator Volker mentioned, of 13 starting Senator Volker along the path of his 14 political career. Ron Tills also has that 15 dubious distinction of having given Tom Reynolds 16 his first job in public service. If "Rap" 17 Rappleyea can forgive him for that, I think we 18 can too, Mr. President. 19 I proudly rise in seconding the 20 nomination of Ron Tills. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 22 recognizes Senator Stachowski on the nomination. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 9719 1 President, I too rise to second the nomination 2 of Ron Tills. 3 Up until the past reapportionment 4 Ron Tills was a constituent of mine. I had 5 Hamburg. As a Democrat, I probably should be 6 careful what I say because Reynolds is always 7 pointing out how Ron Tills is his mentor, and if 8 you're a Democrat in Erie County, you always 9 have to deal with Reynolds and not always on the 10 most pleasant of terms. 11 So I guess we owe that to Ron 12 Tills. But all that being said, I would have to 13 say that the most important thing I noticed 14 about Ron Tills -- and it's from members that 15 served with him here -- to my knowledge, Ron 16 Tills still holds the land record from Buffalo 17 to Albany on the Thruway in the shortest amount 18 of time, and it's only coincidental that we 19 would be confirming Ron Tills to the bench the 20 day after we did the new Superintendent of the 21 State Police, in light of that record. He often 22 tried to break that record, it's my understand 23 ing and, obviously, from the fact that he's here 9720 1 and in one piece, he did it very safely. 2 Ron Tills is a lawyer that's been 3 very, very well respected in his community. I 4 think that Buffalo Raceway as an institution has 5 leaned on him heavily for his expertise in not 6 only legal matters back home but also when they 7 needed some help in working with the Legislature 8 down here. Besides the delegation, they always 9 had the luxury of having Ron Tills to give them 10 extra advice in who to see, who to talk to, what 11 they should be looking for and I think that, 12 unfortunately, they'll probably miss that, but I 13 wouldn't be surprised if they call him off the 14 record to find out different pieces of advice 15 from him anyway, even though he will be a judge 16 now. 17 I think that Ron Tills will be 18 great judge. He will be an asset to the court, 19 and I'm glad to have the opportunity to second 20 the nomination. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leichter on the nomination. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 9721 1 I came to this Legislature a long, long, long 2 time ago. I was member of the class of '69 in 3 the Assembly. It was a very interesting class. 4 It had in it somebody who became Speaker, 5 Stanley Fink; a person who became a leading 6 voice in foreign affairs in this country, Steve 7 Solarz, who served in the Congress; we had Peter 8 Berle, a DEC Commissioner and became the 9 National President of the Audubon Club. There 10 was Vito Batista, a strong populist. I don't 11 know how many people remember him. I'm sure 12 those from New York City do. Ray Skuse, who all 13 of us know, who for many years has played such 14 an important role in educational policy in this 15 state. There was Gene Levy, one of the nicest 16 and most productive members this Legislature has 17 ever seen, and there was also Ron Tills, and I 18 remember Ron as somebody with a great deal of 19 energy, intelligence, and fairness, and one of 20 the things is when you are in the minority - 21 some of you have never been there and some of 22 you have probably forgotten what it's like to be 23 in the minority, but you get a pretty good sense 9722 1 of who is fair and who deals with you in a 2 straightforward manner, and that was certainly 3 Ronald Tills. 4 I enjoyed serving with him. I 5 was impressed by the service that he provided to 6 his constituents, and I'm sure that he is going 7 to be an excellent member of the Court of 8 Claims. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Sears on the nomination. 11 SENATOR SEARS: Thank you very 12 much, Mr. President. 13 I'm going to say a few things 14 about Ron Tills; but before I do that, "Rap", I 15 know it's a great day for you, and I'm happy to 16 see you here and guys like Chris Mega and Tommy 17 Reynolds, because we all served with Ron Tills 18 and we scored twice today with former members of 19 the Assembly, and it certainly makes me proud. 20 And, Tommy, yes, I can remember 21 when Ronnie brought you down to Albany. We were 22 up on the 7th floor, and I was right across from 23 you. Mary Goodhue was right next door, as I 9723 1 recall, and Tommy and I were just talking about 2 the great times, just a couple of days ago, that 3 we used to have; and Ronnie, you know, is a 4 great lover of the Adirondacks. He's the only 5 guy that I know that when he goes on a camping 6 trip up there, he gets so many of these cast 7 iron kettles and frying pans in his car that you 8 can hardly tell where he is going, and I see his 9 wife is up there with him, and sometimes he 10 never remembered to get gas ahead of time, so he 11 had to wake me or my brother up in the middle of 12 the night to get to my brother's gas station and 13 diner at one time, but he won't be like that 14 when he gets to be a Court of Claims judge. 15 But I do have to say I've served 16 with Ron from the time that he came to the 17 Assembly right up until the time he left. I'm 18 going to end on this note. He and I had the 19 distinct pleasure and joy of serving not only in 20 the Assembly with the great gentleman, former 21 Senator, and that was Gene Levy, and we both 22 served as roommates with Gene over a long period 23 of years, and most of you know the great Senator 9724 1 that left us back in 1990. When I eulogized him 2 here on the floor, that was after I became a 3 Senator. Gene Levy had died the day he filed 4 his petition to run in 1990, and we looked 5 forward to many years down together down here, 6 but it just didn't happen. 7 So I have to say, Ron, that for 8 "Geno" -- and that was his pet nickname -- who 9 -- Ronnie and I talked just recently. We talk 10 to him every once in awhile. So I'm happy to 11 not only second this nomination for myself, 12 Ronnie, but and also for "Geno", and good luck 13 to you and keep talking to "Geno." 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 17 nomination? 18 (There was no response.) 19 Hearing none, the question is on 20 the nomination of Ronald H. Tills of Hamburg, 21 New York, to the position of judge of the New 22 York State Court of Claims. 23 All those in favor of the 9725 1 nomination, signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The nominee is unanimously 6 confirmed. 7 Judge Tills is in the gallery to 8 your left along with his wife, Beth. 9 Judge Tills, nice to see you 10 again. We're happy for you, sir, and good luck 11 on your appointment. Congratulations. 12 (Applause.) 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 15 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 16 following nomination: Terry Jane Ruderman of 17 Scarsdale, New York State Court of Claims. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Lack. 20 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 I rise to move the nomination of 23 Terry Jane Ruderman of Scarsdale as a judge of 9726 1 the New York State Court of Claims. 2 Ms. Ruderman, as with our 3 previous nominees this morning, has appeared 4 before the screening committee, has been found 5 qualified, has been nominated by the Governor. 6 Her credentials have been examined by the staff 7 of the Judiciary Committee who also found her 8 well qualified. The nomination was moved to the 9 Judiciary Committee which met this morning. She 10 was unanimously endorsed by the committee with a 11 recommendation to the floor, and I would very 12 proudly yield to the Senator on my left, Senator 13 Nicholas Spano for a second. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Spano on the nomination. 16 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 My colleagues, it is indeed my 19 pleasure to join with Senator Lack in seconding 20 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the 21 Court of Claims. I have known Terry Ruderman 22 for a number of years and have had a chance to 23 see her involvement in Westchester County not 9727 1 only in many different activities affecting our 2 community in Westchester, but also her 3 involvement in the legal profession, starting as 4 an arbitrator in the City Court, moving on as an 5 assistant district attorney to deputy county 6 attorney, as a assistant to the county executive 7 in Westchester and currently serving as the 8 principal law clerk to a Supreme Court judge in 9 the 9th Judicial District. 10 She is someone who's got the 11 credentials, who has distinguished herself in 12 her own career, and it's my pleasure to second 13 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the 14 Court of Claims, and to say, Terry, that today 15 is a proud day for you and for your family and 16 not only for your husband, Jerry, but certainly 17 for your mom and dad who are here as well. 18 And it's my pleasure, Mr. 19 President, to second this nomination to the 20 Court of Claims. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leibell on the nomination. 23 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Mr. 9728 1 President. I rise to second this nomination and 2 I join with my colleagues Senator Lack and 3 Senator Spano. I think they have both given a 4 recitation, although a very brief one, of Terry 5 Jane Ruderman's excellent credentials for this 6 position. 7 She has had a long and 8 distinguished career as an attorney. She brings 9 to the court a wide variety of background in so 10 many different areas. She also, if you had the 11 opportunity to look at her resume, you will see 12 that not only does she have the training as an 13 attorney, an excellent academic record prior to 14 that, but that she has also acquired throughout 15 her career strong administrative skills which 16 will be of great value to her as a judge and to 17 the court. 18 I'm very pleased to rise on this 19 occasion to second the nomination of Terry Jane 20 Ruderman. She is a tremendous asset to the 21 court and to the entire state of New York, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 9729 1 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 2 nomination? 3 (There was no response.) 4 Hearing none, the question is on 5 the nomination of Terry Jane Ruderman to the 6 position as judge of the Court of Claims. 7 All those in favor of the 8 nomination, signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The nominee is unanimously 13 confirmed. 14 We're very pleased to be joined 15 by Judge Ruderman and her husband, Gerald, and 16 her parents, Samuel and Thelma Schwartz, who are 17 in our chamber to our left. 18 Congratulations and good luck. 19 (Applause.) 20 Secretary will read 21 22 23 9730 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 2 from the Committee on Judiciary, reports the 3 following nomination: John J. Brunetti of 4 Baldwinsville, New York State Court of Claims. 5 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 7 recognizes Senator Lack on the nomination. 8 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 I rise to move the nomination of 11 John J. Brunetti of Baldwinsville as a Judge of 12 the New York State Court of Claims. As with 13 Judge Midey, I can't think of two Senators in 14 this chamber more than Senators Nozzolio and 15 DeFrancisco, who have been contacting me 16 constantly as to the status of potential 17 appointees to the judicial system. 18 I'm proud to stand up to move 19 this nomination. I have examined personally the 20 credentials of Mr. Brunetti, what he has done. 21 He's been examined by the screening committee of 22 the Governor. He's been found qualified, 23 nominated by the Governor, examined by the staff 9731 1 of the committee, appeared before the committee 2 and unanimously confirmed by the committee and 3 moved to this floor, and I can't say anything 4 else because, if I do, Senator DeFrancisco will 5 immediately jump up and interrupt me. 6 So I will very nicely yield to 7 Senator DeFrancisco. Do you want to stand up, 8 John, and say a few words about Mr. Brunetti? 9 Sorry to take your position, Mr. 10 President, but he's already up. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 12 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the 13 nomination. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm very 15 pleased and proud to stand here today to second 16 the nomination of John J. Brunetti for judge, 17 Court of Claims of the State of New York. 18 I have known John for about 20 19 years now, and we first met when we shared 20 office space as younger attorneys -- maybe not 21 young attorneys -- and we got to know each other 22 very well. During that period of time, I 23 recognized an individual with unquestioned 9732 1 integrity and character. It wasn't until later 2 that I realized the abilities that he had as an 3 attorney, both criminal and civil. 4 This Court of Claims position 5 happens to be a criminal part and, if you look 6 at his resume, you can clearly understand that 7 there can't be anybody more qualified for this 8 position and a person more balanced in his 9 experience. 10 He started off with the Public 11 Defender's Office. He worked as a Chief 12 Assistant District Attorney in Onondaga County. 13 He worked as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the 14 Northern District of New York. He has taught 15 and still teaches a course at Syracuse 16 University Law School, and he's even been on 17 Court TV -- an incredible background for an 18 incredible person. 19 For many years, I have called him 20 "colleague" and "friend." I'm very proud today 21 to be able to soon call him "Judge." 22 Congratulations, and it's a happy 23 day for all of us. 9733 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 3 nomination? 4 (There was no response.) 5 Hearing none, the question is on 6 the nomination of John J. Brunetti of 7 Baldwinsville, New York, to the position of 8 Judge of the New York State Court of Claims. 9 All those in favor of the 10 nomination, signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The nominee is unanimously 15 confirmed. 16 Judge Brunetti is joining us in 17 the chamber in the gallery to your left, along 18 with his wife, Rockette. 19 Judge, congratulations. We're 20 happy to see you. Good luck. 21 (Applause.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 23 recognizes Senator Larkin. 9734 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 2 believe there is a resolution sponsored by 3 Senator DeFrancisco at the desk. I ask that the 4 title be read and move for its immediate 5 adoption. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Larkin, there is a privileged resolution at the 8 desk. I will ask the Secretary to read the 9 title. 10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 11 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution honoring 60 12 students at the Shea Middle School of the City 13 of Syracuse School District for their 14 participation in the 49th Senate District "Good 15 News Good Kids" Student Recognition Program. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 17 recognizes Senator DeFrancisco on the 18 resolution. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 I am honored today to have some 22 students from Shea Middle School from Syracuse, 23 New York, as part of the program that we have in 9735 1 our district honoring good kids, because there's 2 good news out there and we should share it with 3 everyone, that there are young people out there 4 doing what they should be doing. 5 These students are gifted 6 vocalists, and they have shared these talents on 7 a volunteer basis, after hours and on their own 8 time, and doing such things as sing-alongs with 9 kindergarteners and first graders and also 10 providing entertainment at senior citizen 11 functions. They've also done a Martin Luther 12 King tribute, featuring the singing of freedom 13 songs and choral arrangements. They've had 14 programs concerning patriotic music for New York 15 citizens at the swearing in of new citizens of 16 the United States at the courthouse, and it goes 17 on. 18 The point I'm trying to make is 19 that we should pause periodically, as we do 20 today, to honor young people who are doing what 21 they should be doing, and I'm proud to honor 22 today the Shea Middle School. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9736 1 question is on the resolution. 2 All those in favor, signify by 3 saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 The resolution is adopted. 8 On behalf of Senator DeFrancisco 9 and Senator Bruno and all the members in the 10 chamber, we welcome the students from the Shea 11 Middle School to the chamber and thanks for 12 being good kids. 13 (Applause.) 14 Chair recognizes Senator Larkin. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 16 would you please call up Calendar Number 728, 17 Senate Print 973C, by Senator Levy, for the 18 purpose of opening the rolls for two people. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the title of Calendar Number 728. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act 23 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 9737 1 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by 2 persons under the age of 21. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This 6 act shall take effect on the first day of 7 November. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Trunzo. 13 SENATOR RATH: Aye. Senator 14 Rath, aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Rath will be recorded in the affirmative. 17 Senator Trunzo. 18 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Trunzo will be recorded in the affirmative. 21 Roll call is withdrawn. 22 Senator Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Let's take up 9738 1 the controversial calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the controversial calendar, beginning 4 with Calendar Number 130, by Senator Cook. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 6 SENATOR COOK: Lay the bill aside 7 for the day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 9 130 will be laid aside for the day at the 10 request of the sponsor. 11 Secretary will continue to call 12 the controversial calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973C, an act 15 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 16 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by 17 persons under the age of 21. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy 22 has already - 23 SENATOR LEVY: Lay it aside. 9739 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Levy 4 has already laid the bill aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 6 for the acknowledgment, Senator Paterson. 7 Secretary will continue to call 8 the controversial calendar. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 747, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4218A, an act 11 in relation to authorizing the city of Elmira, 12 county of Chemung, to transfer parklands. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a home rule message at the desk. 15 Secretary will read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9740 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4009A, an 4 act to amend - 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 993, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5009, an 10 act to amend Administrative Code of the city of 11 New York, in relation to access to correct 12 housing maintenance code violation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leibell, an explanation of Calendar Number 993, 15 Senate Print 5009, has been asked for. 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 17 this legislation will allow a landlord to 18 correct violations of the housing maintenance 19 code where a tenant has denied the landlord 20 access to the unit and where the violation has 21 occurred or where access is necessary to correct 22 the violation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9741 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 3 President. If the sponsor will yield for a 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leibell, will you yield to Senator Paterson? 7 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I am 11 reminded of Calendar 994 which we passed on 12 Monday. It's very similar in its approach, so I 13 hope you will yield for a question, and I hope 14 you will understand that the question is very 15 similar to what I asked you on Monday. 16 First of all, how are you going 17 to pay for this bill? And replete with that, 18 you might want to also inform us as to how you 19 think this is actually going to clear up 20 congestion in the court system when there are 21 going to be enough hearings and enough activity 22 in here that will further clog the court system 23 from my point of view. 9742 1 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President. 2 Could I get some order in here? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 4 missing my big gavel, Senator Leibell, but your 5 point is very well taken. It is very noisy. 6 Ask the members -- we're now 7 commencing the controversial calendar. There's 8 going to be serious debate on a number of 9 issues. Could we please quiet it down so that 10 the members can participate in this and hear 11 what their other colleague is saying. 12 If there are staff discussions, 13 please take them out of the chamber. 14 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leibell for a response. 18 SENATOR LEIBELL: I'm going to 19 ask Senator Paterson if he could just ask me 20 that question again, because I -- even standing 21 this close, I couldn't hear him that well. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson, could you please present the question 9743 1 to Senator Leibell? Again, he yields to the 2 question. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Actually, it was an auditory 6 hallucination, and I don't know if I can repeat 7 the question, but it relates to the congestion 8 in the Housing Court system. 9 Under this legislation with the 10 types of hearings that would be necessary, I am 11 contending that it will clog the Housing Court 12 further, and I wanted Senator Leibell, Mr. 13 President, to explain how he feels this will 14 alleviate the caseload in the Housing Court 15 system. 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I 17 believe that this bill before us today will, in 18 fact, reduce some of the burdens on the Housing 19 Court because I think we will be able to correct 20 some of the problems that we are confronting in 21 a more timely fashion. There is no question 22 that the Housing Court has had a good deal of 23 backlog. There is no question that it's a court 9744 1 -- I think all sides have agreed this -- that 2 could withstand some serious scrutiny as to how 3 to improve its workload. 4 This legislation, far from adding 5 to that burden, I think will go a long way 6 probably towards addressing that problem and 7 will expedite proceedings within the Court 8 itself. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President, and through you, Mr. President. 13 Senator Leibell, how would we 14 verify that the tenant is not giving the 15 landlord access to the actual apartment? 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: As you can tell 17 from the bill, the court will summon the tenant 18 in to court and the tenant at that point in time 19 will have the opportunity to explain to the 20 court whether, in fact, he has been giving 21 access. In other words, there will be, in 22 effect, a hearing. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 9745 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leibell, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 8 Leibell, now the tenant has been summoned to 9 court. We don't know that the tenant has denied 10 the landlord access. So the tenant likely 11 misses a day of work. The tenant has been 12 burdened by having to come to court. The tenant 13 risks a fine if the tenant doesn't cooperate 14 with the court, and we have yet to establish a 15 finding that the tenant ever denied the landlord 16 access to the premises. 17 So I'm just asking whether or not 18 this bill is somewhat pecuniary in its effect on 19 the tenant. 20 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I 21 think in the vast, vast majority of the cases, 22 we are going to find that landlords are going to 23 want to fix their establishments, their units, 9746 1 as quickly as they possibly can. They are not 2 going to be desirous of spending any time in 3 court. It stretches the imagination to think 4 that that be a severe problem. Landlords are 5 going to want to come in to court only when they 6 have been denied access. They are going to want 7 to come in, in order to get access so that they 8 can quickly remedy the problem, and I think many 9 other tenants will benefit from this also. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 Thank Senator Leibell for his 15 answer, and if Senator Leibell will continue to 16 yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Leibell, do you continue to yield? 19 The Senator yields. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 21 Leibell, with the exception of small property 22 owners, I would say that the landlord through 23 his or her attorneys is often represented in 9747 1 court every day and what I'm suggesting is that, 2 if you want to raise the threshold of penalty, 3 that the threshold be raised uniformly. 4 I don't see in your legislation 5 any restrictions or fines applied to the 6 landlord for the exact noncompliance for which 7 you have levied a penalty on the tenant. Can 8 you explain to those of us in the chamber why it 9 is that you haven't created that sort of equal 10 penalty for the violation of what would be 11 something that is, first of all, hard to prove; 12 but secondly, if we're going to accept it, then 13 why aren't we going to apply it to both sides of 14 the complaint? 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: In the first 16 place, when you say with the exception of small 17 landlords, there is an implication, I believe, 18 there that there are a limited number of small 19 landlords. In fact, there are many thousands of 20 landlords in the city. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr. 22 President, if I could just interrupt. In making 23 that point, I was not in any way trying to 9748 1 diminish that number. I was just trying to 2 distinguish the landlords who I think would be 3 affected. So, in other words, I'm not really 4 disputing you on that. 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, 6 there's also provisions that provide for 7 penalties for landlords that do not fix their 8 units and do not repair them as they should. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, but Mr. 12 President, we are talking about attendance, and 13 this is a new area that Senator Leibell is 14 actually approaching through this piece of 15 legislation; and so what I'm saying is that, if 16 we are going to set up a law, which is what we 17 are enacting in this kind of chamber, I don't 18 think it's really fair to say that because there 19 is a subjective determination right now that the 20 laws are levied in such a way that they are more 21 beneficial to the landlord than the tenant, so 22 now we're going to make a law that's going to 23 hurt the tenants, and then we're going to say in 9749 1 the greater scheme of law that balances out. 2 We're in a whole new area of law, 3 so I think that there is a duty on the lawmaker 4 to make sure that the coverage is uniform. If 5 there is a feeling that in the past that the 6 laws have, in a sense, been balanced in favor of 7 either party, then perhaps we need to go back 8 and correct those laws. 9 But, Senator, you are addressing 10 a new area. You are addressing court 11 attendance, and this is something that I would 12 recommend be applied fairly in this particular 13 case, and I think we would both notice from 14 reading that bill that that doesn't -- it 15 doesn't exist in this bill. 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Senator, I 17 think what we're trying -- I know what we're 18 trying to address here is a problem that many 19 perceive to be quite substantial in the New York 20 City housing market especially. It's a problem 21 that impacts on the Housing Court system. 22 This legislation is not a new 23 concept. This legislation, in fact, has been 9750 1 before this house on previous occasions. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 8 recognizes Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Will Senator 10 Leibell yield to a question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Leibell, do you yield to Senator Gold? 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, I do. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 yields. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, one of 17 the advantages, real advantages of having a 18 citizen legislature is that people from all 19 walks of life come here and we bring problems 20 from the community, and we all talk it out and 21 look for solutions, and I understand the problem 22 that you are talking about. 23 However, once we acknowledge that 9751 1 there's a problem, unfortunately, we do get into 2 some legal machinations; and there is a memo 3 that was filed by the New York State Tenants and 4 Neighbors Coalition which discusses problems. 5 It doesn't say that there is no way that we can 6 ever deal with the problem from the side you're 7 looking at, but it acknowledges that there are 8 issues which are not taken care of; and my 9 question is a very broad one, but why is it that 10 the bill does not -- I mean you indicated it was 11 here before. It was here in '94. 12 Have any of the concerns listed 13 by the tenants been taken care of in this '95 14 print? 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: Actually, I 16 think there was an amendment in the '95 print 17 which provided for the hearing aspect of it. I 18 think that's a change from the prior year's 19 print. 20 SENATOR GOLD: What do you mean 21 the hearing aspect? 22 SENATOR LEIBELL: That you can 23 come into court and it's not, in effect, ex 9752 1 parte. You can be summoned into court, and the 2 tenant will have an opportunity to be heard on 3 this. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, 5 when you say the tenant will have an opportunity 6 to be heard, the concern -- if the Senator will 7 yield to another question? 8 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield, Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I have 12 spoken over the years with lawyers who deal in 13 this area. For example, there may be a minor 14 issue between a landlord and tenant, and they go 15 to court. Why? Because from the landlord's 16 point of view, they're afraid of a precedent, so 17 a landlord will pay big fees to a lawyer even 18 though the tenant's rent is a small amount 19 because they are afraid of precedents. 20 From the tenants' point of view, 21 what are they concerned about? Most of the 22 tenants that you are talking about are working 23 people. In today's market, in today's real 9753 1 world, we have two working parents in many, many 2 homes. They are concerned about this word 3 called "harassment," being taken away from their 4 job and losing a day's pay. While everything 5 goes on in the hearing, they are losing money. 6 They can't face the big landlord in their mind. 7 Is there any protection that the 8 landlord, for example, has to do something 9 before the tenant ever gets drawn in? 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: There's this 11 protection, in that, I think there is a logical 12 one to this extent, that I think it would be a 13 very rare occasion when that series of facts 14 that you just cite would occur but, in addition 15 to which, you are going to have the opportunity, 16 once you come in, to have that hearing in front 17 of the court, and I might add the landlord also 18 has to come in so that landlord, he or she, may 19 be similarly impacted, and there will be costs 20 involved. That's true of parties to any 21 litigation. 22 SENATOR GOLD: On the bill, Mr. 23 President. 9754 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold, on the bill. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I don't 4 think there is any thinking person in the room 5 who really does not understand the bill, 6 Senator, and what you are trying to accomplish. 7 But the problem is that in an 8 open society, an open forum, we get input from 9 all segments of society and, generally speaking, 10 in those situations where we have success in the 11 legislative process, we deal with both sides, 12 and we talk it out and, Senator, I'm not 13 convinced -- through no fault of yours, I guess, 14 but I'm not convinced that there has been an 15 attempt to take the bill and make it fair so 16 that in those situations -- and believe me, 17 Senator, there are probably more than you think 18 in the city of New York -- where landlords want, 19 for economic reasons, to move tenants around and 20 about and to harass tenants, that those 21 protections on their side have not been built 22 into the bill. If they were, I think some of us 23 would take a look and want to be fair. 9755 1 I always hear from the landlord 2 lobby that, you know, "Well, you're pro tenant" 3 or "You're pro..." this. Unfortunately, up 4 here, everybody is labeling everybody, but I 5 like to think most of us are fair, and we would 6 take a look at some of these bills if they were 7 sort of drawn down the middle and given the 8 opportunity of this side or that side to do what 9 was equitable. 10 So, Senator, I'm not saying that 11 there is not a problem that you are dealing 12 with. I'm only concerned that in dealing with 13 your side of the problem, your bill eliminates 14 the other side, and that's why I would find it 15 difficult to support it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Solomon. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 20 me, Senator Solomon, before you embark upon your 21 debate - 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 23 Would you lay the bill aside temporarily. 9756 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 2 want to lay the bill aside? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside 4 temporarily. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 will be laid aside temporarily. 7 Secretary will continue to call 8 the controversial calendar. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1214, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1736A, an 11 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 12 Public Service Law, in relation to the 13 definition of special franchise property. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1214 16 has been asked for by the Acting Minority 17 Leader, Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 22 just on a matter of clarification, for some 23 weeks now I've heard you refer to the 9757 1 distinguished Deputy Minority Leader as "acting 2 minority leader," somehow indicating as if he 3 were a pretender or holding this seat just for a 4 short period of time. I believe his correct 5 title is Deputy Minority Leader and, because he 6 has served with such distinction, I think we 7 ought to recognize his full title. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Your 9 admonishment is well taken, Senator Leichter. I 10 was trying to promote him, not demote him or 11 denigrate him in any way or another. 12 So, Senator Larkin, an 13 explanation of Calendar Number 1214 has been 14 asked for by the Deputy Minority Leader, Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 17 it's my honor to respond to the Deputy Minority 18 Leader who's been so distinguished since he 19 started the session. 20 Senator, this is an extension of 21 the exemption of central office equipment of 22 telephone companies from real property tax that 23 was done back in '85 and 1987. This equipment 9758 1 is approximately a foot square, can accommodate 2 many small customers if located on a telephone 3 pole in a right of way. As long as it's inside 4 the building, it's currently exempt. If they 5 move it outside, it's a greater asset. 6 Last year, as you might remember, 7 Senator Paterson, the Conference of Mayors had 8 put an objection to it. We still passed it. 9 This year, they have given us a letter they 10 lifted their objection. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, Mr. 14 President, I would like to compliment Senator 15 Larkin, who I often engage in debate here, but 16 he has amended the bill and if he would just 17 yield for this one question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, sir. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: As the bill 9759 1 stands amended, which addresses some of the 2 concerns that I had -- in fact, it addresses 3 basically all the concerns that I had. The only 4 question I would like to ask you is what the 5 fiscal impact will be to local governments. 6 What will it cost local governments to actually 7 endure the enactment of this legislation? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: As far as we're 9 defining it, we don't feel that there will be 10 anything because this is prospectively, and that 11 was the big issue that the association of the 12 Conference of Mayors wanted. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: All right, 14 Senator. On the bill, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson, on the bill. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: I won't even, 18 in the interest of time, go into what it 19 actually was, because it was addressed in the 20 amendment, and we thank Senator Larkin for 21 taking our concerns up. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 9760 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1272, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 3486A, an 11 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 12 relation to the powers of the Dormitory 13 Authority. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside 16 temporarily. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside temporarily. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1284, by Member of the Assembly Dinowitz, 21 Assembly Print 5975, an act to amend the Mental 22 Hygiene Law, in relation to service as president 23 of boards of visitors. 9761 1 SENATOR SMITH: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A, an 6 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 7 enacting the engineers' and architects' good 8 Samaritan act. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1287, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5238, an 14 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 15 to quality assurance of managed care plans. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside temporarily. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an 21 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 22 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully 23 admitted aliens. 9762 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 1292 4 has been asked for by the Deputy Minority 5 Leader. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. I think everyone is familiar with 8 the federal requirement that a legal alien seek 9 a sponsor's agreement which provides for econo 10 mic support of that individual for a limited 11 period when entering this country. Consistent 12 with that federal law, in 1977, New York State 13 enacted a provision of the Social Services Law 14 containing a deeming provision addressing that 15 very issue, namely, that a sponsor would be 16 available to a legal alien for a period of three 17 years after his entry into the United States. 18 Subsequent - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm trying to 22 give you an explanation, Senator. I'm not quite 23 through yet. Do you want me to finish? 9763 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay. 3 Subsequent to that, in 1992 a landmark case 4 known as Mannino versus Perales occurred in New 5 York State which said that that 1977 provision 6 in state law was in violation of our state 7 Constitution. In effect, it eliminated any 8 requirement provided for in federal law uniquely 9 to New York State of the economic responsibility 10 of a sponsor and a sponsor's affidavit for the 11 three-year period. That's the history. 12 Now, the bill before us seeks to 13 eliminate that anomaly in a very, very limited 14 way. What the bill says is, number one, that we 15 would like a legal alien to seek out that 16 sponsor to the extent of that sponsor providing 17 what previously had been law, support for the 18 several years required; but acknowledging the 19 Mannino versus Perales case, we state very 20 directly that, if that sponsor is unable to 21 provide the support engendered in the sponsor's 22 agreement, is no longer in the state, and so on, 23 then that person is able to receive full social 9764 1 services benefits provided in this state. 2 So it's really an effort, to some 3 degree, to make that sponsor or the legal alien 4 aware that there was certainly not only an im 5 plied but a federally statutory responsibility, 6 but we acknowledge the Mannino case by taking 7 out the mandate. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 I see this as a law that we would 13 be enacting that's going to be very similar to a 14 law that we have on the books. It's really just 15 going to shift the burden of proof, and I would 16 like to engage Senator Padavan in a couple 17 questions. 18 But what I would like to do 19 preliminarily is to advise you, Mr. President, 20 that the Minority expects to call a slow roll 21 call on this particular bill, and we had this 22 situation come up with Senator Leibell a moment 23 ago on Calendar Number 993. If we're not going 9765 1 to accommodate the slow roll call, we will 2 probably be not using the time well going 3 through the discussion and then laying the bill 4 aside, so what I would like to ask Senator 5 Padavan is, would he like to lay the bill aside 6 or is he ready to go through the whole 7 discussion? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay it aside, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an 14 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in 15 relation to compensation for injury or damage. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 17 I ask the sponsor to yield. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside temporarily. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an 23 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 9766 1 relation to the exclusion of illegal aliens from 2 receiving publicly funded health care. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 on this particular bill, if you would yield to 5 Senator Espada, he has a couple of questions 6 that he would like to ask, but we are going to 7 wind up in the same circumstance that they were 8 in before. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are you saying 10 that -- if I may ask the Deputy Minority Leader, 11 are you planning on a slow roll call on this 12 bill as well? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 14 would prefer "supreme commander". 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry? 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 17 would prefer "supreme commander". 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: How about the 19 allied supreme commander? 20 Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 Secretary will continue to call 9767 1 the controversial calendar. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1297, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3093. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1299, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 3520, 9 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 10 relation to the transportation of certain 11 persons. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Before I go 16 through an explanation, I would just like to 17 advise the chamber that the Majority Leader has 18 been here the past three mornings letting us 19 know that he would like to leave on June 15, and 20 we are making every effort to accommodate him 21 with respect to the fact that we would like to 22 debate the bills. We are also trying to do 23 that. So there is no attempt on this side of 9768 1 the aisle to cause any delay or any inconven 2 ience, but we are ready to go forward on these 3 bills and we just keep laying them aside, and 4 I'm just looking for some direction from you, 5 Mr. President, or from anyone as to exactly what 6 our process should be right now. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're on 8 Calendar Number 1299. Senator DeFrancisco is 9 poised and ready for debate. If you would like 10 to ask for an explanation or question, he is in 11 a position to do that, Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, then I'm 13 poised and ready for an explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 DeFrancisco, Senator Paterson, the Deputy 16 Minority Leader, has asked for an explanation of 17 Calendar Number 1299. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, 19 Calendar 1299 is a bill that would basically 20 require individuals in need of transportation on 21 public assistance to use the public transporta 22 tion as a first alternative unless the depart 23 ment finds -- that's Department of Social 9769 1 Services -- finds that such means of public 2 transportation are unavailable or that the 3 nature and severity of the recipient's illness 4 necessitates a mode of transportation other than 5 by public transportation. 6 The theory behind this obviously 7 is to try to save some money by eliminating 8 transportation costs from a much more costly 9 source; but, secondly, we have had occasion in 10 this body to provide assistance by way of grants 11 to public transportation, and I know we've done 12 it to Centro, which is our public transportation 13 system in Central New York, and it seems sort of 14 odd that we wouldn't encourage or, in this case, 15 require people who are receiving state funds to 16 use public transportation so that we are 17 assisting not only the state in saving money but 18 assisting the transportation systems and, 19 hopefully, avoid us having to continually 20 provide more funds because of shortfalls in 21 operating funds for public transportation. So 22 it has that twofold effect, and that's the 23 purpose of the bill. 9770 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Jones. 3 SENATOR JONES: Will the sponsor 4 yield to a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Jones? 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR JONES: As you know, my 9 other interest in life is emergency medicine. I 10 just want a clarification, Senator DeFrancisco, 11 because I personally am aware of the abuses of 12 the system. I mean as far as ambulances are 13 concerned, people use that as transportation as 14 opposed to driving themselves or whatever. 15 What would happen, though, under 16 your bill if an emergency service is called if 17 clearly the case was not an emergency? Would 18 then the payment be denied and the company be 19 held? What would happen then? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 21 assume that the -- the most important thing is 22 that the emergency be responded to. I would 23 interpret this as not applying to emergency 9771 1 services, because you would basically provide an 2 incentive for emergency services not to respond 3 as quickly to certain individuals, and that's 4 not the intent of this. 5 The intent is the doctor's 6 visit. The intent is a situation where it's not 7 an emergency situation to take the most 8 economical method of transportation unless the 9 nature of the injury or the illness prevents 10 that. 11 SENATOR JONES: Could the sponsor 12 just yield to another question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR JONES: I guess my other 16 question is, you know, as I say, I'm very 17 supportive of you on this issue because I see 18 this abuse personally. 19 But would a determination - 20 let's say the person calls the ambulance. As we 21 know, they have to respond. But, after the 22 fact, it turns out the case was not an 23 emergency. Clearly they could have driven. 9772 1 There won't be a determination at that point not 2 to pay, let's say, if it's a commercial service, 3 and I know many, even, of the volunteers are 4 doing third-party billing. Would there be 5 after-the-fact determination that they're not 6 going to get paid because it really wasn't an 7 emergency? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think 9 there would be a determination of the local 10 Department of Social Services because, as the 11 exception states in this legislation, unless the 12 Department finds that such means are unavailable 13 to the recipient, and so forth. 14 I would assume that the 15 Department of Social Services representative 16 would not penalize an emergency services 17 provider because of the abuse made by an 18 individual, when one was not needed, but -- and 19 I think I should leave it at that, because I 20 think it's to be administered by the local 21 Department of Social Services. 22 SENATOR JONES: Thank you, 23 Senator. 9773 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In any 2 event, that was clearly not the intent. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Solomon, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. Will Senator DeFrancisco yield, 7 please? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 yields. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, in 12 this legislation, are we basically dealing with 13 ambulet services, as I'm looking at this, in 14 other words, to take someone to the doctor or 15 take someone back, or is this emergency 16 services? 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Any 18 transportation. It may be transportation for a 19 doctor's visit; it may be transportation - 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes, under 21 Medicaid. That's what I assume this bill deals 22 with is ambulet services, transportation 23 services. 9774 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It deals 2 with that as well. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Correct. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If there is 5 no reason for the individual not to be able to 6 take -- or medical reason -- no medical reason 7 for the individual not to take the less 8 expensive method of transportation, then that 9 should be taken. 10 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 11 if Senator DeFrancisco will yield, please? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 continues to yield. 15 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, as I 16 understand the memo, and correct me if I'm 17 wrong, the memo is basically stating that we 18 have to pass this legislation in order to meet 19 federal requirements for reimbursement? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If I can 21 find the memo, I will address it. 22 That's correct. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 9775 1 if Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield? 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, if we 6 don't pass this bill, are we in danger of losing 7 federal reimbursement funds? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 9 think so in view of what was passed in the 10 budget this year. There is a much looser 11 language in the budget that probably would 12 follow the federal requirements. The language 13 in the budget basically tells the Department of 14 Social Services to come up with the most 15 economical means of transportation, and it's 16 broad, general language. 17 This bill mandates the Department 18 of Social Services to provide -- mandates 19 recipients to use the least expensive method of 20 transportation. This is a firmer bill. It's 21 more mandatory than the broad discretion that 22 the budget gave to the Department of Social 23 Services, and I think that what we did in the 9776 1 budget is enough to satisfy federal 2 requirements. 3 This bill, by the way, was 4 drafted as was the memo before the budget bills 5 were printed. 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President. 7 If Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, my 12 understanding of the services, and I'm going to 13 basically -- I'm dealing with ambulet services 14 and what they call car services which is a taxi 15 service in the city of New York, and it's for 16 Medicaid patients -- is that the doctor will 17 generally make the determination as to the type 18 of service that is required. How is this -- in 19 other words, the doctor will make the 20 determination as to whether Patient A needs an 21 ambulet or a car service, an ambulet costing 22 $45, I believe, and a car service costing $15. 23 How would this alter that 9777 1 process, because this says, "the most in 2 expensive way"? Is the onus going to be put on 3 the doctor or the Medicaid recipient; and when 4 is Social Services going to review that 5 decision? That's what I'm concerned about. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 7 ultimate determination of whether an exception 8 is present will be with the department because 9 the legislation says unless the department finds 10 that such means is medically unsound. 11 Obviously, I would assume that 12 the Department of Social Services representative 13 would take into account medical records and 14 physicians' orders in making that determination, 15 but I think what we're dealing with here -- the 16 intent of this is basically to provide a mandate 17 for those who presently do not use public 18 transportation and could use public 19 transportation. 20 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 21 if Senator DeFrancisco will continue to yield. 22 I agree with - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9778 1 Senator continues to yield. 2 SENATOR SOLOMON: I agree with 3 the goal you're trying to reach. My question is 4 in terms of reaching that goal, we have an 5 administrative process and a bureaucracy, and 6 the problem that I have and I'm trying to 7 understand how it works is if John Doe is to see 8 Dr. Smith and in the past John Doe would take a 9 car service to see Dr. Smith and there is public 10 transportation available, who is going to be 11 responsible if John Doe continues to take that 12 car service to Dr. Smith for regular visits and 13 then three months down the road, the Department 14 of Social Services says, "Wait a minute. John 15 Doe should have been taking public 16 transportation." 17 Is it Dr. Smith who authorized - 18 is it Dr. Smith who does the authorization of 19 the transportation method or is it John Doe, the 20 Medicaid recipient, and then is Social Services 21 going to say he's not going to get paid? That's 22 my problem. Who are they going to point the 23 finger at and say, "You shouldn't take public 9779 1 transportation", and what's going to happen to 2 that individual when they point the finger? If 3 they made a decision beforehand, I could 4 understand it. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, 6 presumably, if the Department of Social Services 7 is doing what they should in managing case files 8 for each of the recipients, these decisions 9 would be made ahead of time, and if they're not 10 made ahead of time, then someone in the 11 Department of Social Services is going to have 12 to make a determination. 13 I would -- my interpretation of 14 this would be that, in the event that a 15 Department of Social -- the authorization was 16 made by a physician prior to the service being 17 rendered and thereafter it's being reviewed, it 18 would be my belief that the Department of Social 19 Services would pay that and subsequent payments 20 would be subject to whatever mandate the 21 department determined as to that specific 22 individual. 23 SENATOR SOLOMON: Thank you. 9780 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Abate. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I think we 4 all agree -- would Senator DeFrancisco yield to 5 a question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Abate? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Absolutely. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR ABATE: I think we 12 understand the intent of this bill and I applaud 13 you, but I'm concerned about two populations, 14 the disabled and seniors, and clearly we've 15 outlined that, if transportation is unavailable, 16 that's an exception or the nature of the illness 17 will be taken into consideration, and 18 emergencies, one can get there any way that's 19 convenient. I assume emergencies is also an 20 exception, medical emergencies, is that 21 correct? 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Correct. 23 SENATOR ABATE: I guess my 9781 1 problem is, and I need some clarification, if 2 I'm a senior and I just don't like taking public 3 transportation, it may be three blocks away, but 4 I'm afraid, I've been a victim of a crime, and I 5 don't want to walk those three blocks and I have 6 a next-door neighbor who has agreed -- who stays 7 home, has agreed to take me around by car. What 8 happens in that situation? I haven't taken 9 public transportation for ten years. I was 10 mugged on the way to the subway. I have an 11 enormous fear. I'm 75 years old. What happens 12 in that case? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: What 14 happens is that case, since the neighbor was 15 kind enough to provide the transportation, 16 nobody would have to pay. 17 SENATOR ABATE: There's no - 18 under the current situation, is that neighbor 19 reimbursed for expenses? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not that I 21 know of. Not that I know of. 22 SENATOR ABATE: And how about - 23 my second question is the disabled person is not 9782 1 facing necessarily an illness but the 2 condition. You have no exception for the 3 disabled here. Would they also have to go 4 through a bureaucratic process, call up - 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Unless the 6 department finds that such means of public 7 transportation are unavailable or that the 8 nature and severity of the illness necessitates 9 a mode of transportation other than by such 10 means. 11 SENATOR ABATE: But the disabled 12 person, every time they wanted to go to a doctor 13 would have to do something proactive; even 14 though the condition isn't going to change, they 15 would have to notify Social Services and, in 16 fact, get permission before they can take 17 alternative transportation. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. I 19 don't think that's the case, especially in the 20 case of a person with a disability. Someone is 21 going to be reviewing that case file and a 22 determination is going to be made as to what 23 services are available or to be provided, what 9783 1 transportation is authorized under those 2 situations. 3 The difficult part of the statute 4 is the emergency situation because you can't 5 predetermine those services, and that's where 6 discretion has to be with the Department of 7 Social Services to pay for those emergency 8 services at least in the first instance, but as 9 far as the disabled individual, I would presume 10 that someone is in charge of the case file and 11 in that case file, there should be a perdeter 12 mination as to what mode of transportation would 13 be authorized under what circumstances. 14 SENATOR ABATE: And you -- but 15 it's not written in the bill that there's a 16 capacity of Social Services to make a 17 predetermination so as to avoid an individual 18 every time they need to get medical care, seek 19 the advice of the department, because I'm 20 concerned, not only the burden placed on seniors 21 and the disabled, but also the bureaucratic 22 morass that will be created through this bill. 23 I just don't know whether it's spelled out in 9784 1 this legislation. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 3 Department of -- I don't imagine -- I think the 4 discretion here is with the Department of Social 5 Services. The ultimate determination is with 6 the department. I can't imagine that the 7 preferred process by the Department of Social 8 Services would be to do it by a visit-by-visit 9 determination. The intent is the Department of 10 Social Services is going to determine when 11 transportation can be done by public 12 transportation, which is the most likely in 13 situations where it's not an emergency and 14 there's no disability or no illness that would 15 preclude that, and that's the intent of it. 16 We can find exceptions or 17 difficulties in any piece of legislation, but 18 the intent is for the department to review these 19 cases initially, make a determination and, if 20 someone is authorized for doctors' visits to go 21 by public transportation only, they should do 22 that. If it's an emergency situation and 23 there's a wrong call by the person because they 9785 1 felt it was an emergency, well, I would believe 2 that the Department of Social Services would 3 recognize that that was a situation that was not 4 the intent of this particular legislation. 5 SENATOR ABATE: Would the Senator 6 yield -- continue to yield? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator continues to yield. 10 SENATOR ABATE: Obviously, we as 11 a Legislature don't want to micro-manage the 12 department, but it seems to me it might be 13 helpful to the department in terms of guidelines 14 to add a section dealing with seniors and 15 disabled around preconditions so there could be 16 a predetermination and that to avoid 17 administrative -- administrative gridlock and an 18 inordinate inconvenience to seniors and 19 disabled. 20 Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. Excuse 23 me. 9786 1 Senator Smith. 2 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 3 Would the sponsor yield for one 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 DeFrancisco yields. 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 8 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 9 Have you determined or have you 10 thought about how this bill might complicate the 11 district's federal mandate to provide medical - 12 medical transportation? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How it 14 would compromise it? 15 SENATOR SMITH: How it would 16 complicate. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 18 think it does. I think the bill basically 19 mandates the least expensive transportation 20 costs considering whatever the medical condition 21 might be, and I think that's the intent of the 22 federal government as well. 23 SENATOR SMITH: Would you - 9787 1 would the sponsor yield for another question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yeah. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator continues to yield. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Okay. If a 8 person is incapacitated in a wheelchair or using 9 a walker, that person isn't necessarily ill but 10 would need special transportation. Your bill 11 states only if a person is ill. How would you 12 provide for that person in a wheelchair or a 13 walker? 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 15 would imagine -- once again, because the 16 Department of Social Services has to manage this 17 on a day-to-day basis, it would depend upon the 18 availability and the type of transportation. In 19 Syracuse through Centro, we're fortunate enough 20 to have buses that do have wheelchair lifts. 21 Other jurisdictions might not have the number 22 that we have, and it would depend upon what 23 services are available. So under those - 9788 1 SENATOR SMITH: Will the sponsor 2 continue to yield? 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 4 SENATOR SMITH: Have you ridden 5 on any of these buses lately? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Are you aware 8 that most of the bus drivers don't have keys for 9 the handicapped ramps? 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not in 11 Syracuse, that's not the case. 12 SENATOR SMITH: You haven't been 13 in the city of New York recently or rode on 14 their transportation, have you? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, then 16 that's the fault of the administrators in New 17 York City, not the fault of the legislation. I 18 think if bus drivers don't have the bus keys, I 19 don't think we should in the Legislature do a 20 law that says bus drivers shall have keys, 21 because that's pretty common sense. If the 22 public transportation people are not doing it, 23 whoever is supervising them should make sure 9789 1 they're doing it. 2 SENATOR SMITH: Well, Mr. 3 DeFran... the next time one of your appointees 4 comes up to the MTA, we'll take that up with 5 them. 6 However, the question still 7 stands. How would the services be provided, 8 because you're not going to have a social worker 9 assigned to every individual, and if they have 10 to make a determination quickly, you would need 11 someone assigned to each individual 12 practically. It's just an impossibility. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 14 think that's the case at all. The Department of 15 Social Services can issue regulations consistent 16 with the statute that say if these particular 17 circumstances exist, you're going to see a 18 doctor on a non-emergency visit, on a regular 19 call, you take public transportation unless 20 you're disabled or unless it's an emergency 21 and - 22 SENATOR SMITH: But your bill 23 doesn't provide for that. 9790 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Any - 2 regulations are promulgated by every department 3 and in -- in providing the specifics of 4 following through with a piece of legislation, 5 and I think that under these circumstances, 6 those regulations would also be done. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Would the sponsor 8 yield for one more question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR SMITH: Would you be - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR SMITH: Would you be 18 willing to take another look at your legislation 19 and provide for those areas which are not 20 provided for? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would be 22 more than happy to take another look at it. I 23 would like to pass this today and we can amend 9791 1 it at a later date, but I will definitely look 2 at those areas you brought up, and Senator 3 Libous brought something to my attention that by 4 1997, all modes of public transportation are 5 supposed to have wheelchair accessible to the 6 ADA. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Gold, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator 12 DeFrancisco indicated that he wanted to pass it 13 today. I thought if there's some concern about 14 that, why don't we have the slow roll call right 15 now and move it along. 16 SENATOR SMITH: Okay. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In the 18 spirit of cooperation, as Senator Gold always 19 is, if he chooses to do that, that's up to the 20 Majority Leader whether he wants to put everyone 21 through that, but it's up to the Majority Leader 22 whether he wants to go through a slow roll. If 23 he does, that's fine. If he doesn't, that's 9792 1 fine with me as well. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Before we 5 actually get to that question, I'm going to 6 yield to Senator Gold in a moment to take that 7 up. I just wanted to ask a specific question on 8 the legislation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 DeFrancisco, will you yield to Senator 11 Paterson? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I 13 will. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 17 DeFrancisco, Senator Smith asked you a question 18 about the bus drivers and the keys in New York 19 City and your answer was that that's really the 20 fault of the administrator, and I guess that is 21 a correct answer; but what I'm asking you is 22 when we draft legislation, we're not drafting 23 legislation in the dark. In other words, she's 9793 1 bringing information to the chamber that it may 2 be hard to adhere to the new regulations that 3 would be promulgated through this legislation, 4 and what, in effect, you're saying to her is 5 because there is a gap in what might be the 6 correct administrative procedure, we're going to 7 ignore that and pass the legislation anyway, and 8 I'm asking you if you think that that's good law 9 to be legislating into a condition where there 10 is -- where obviously the access is going to be 11 hard pressed as a result of your legislation. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I - 13 I don't agree with the premise, because I don't 14 think the access is going to be impaired at 15 all. 16 The legislation states that the 17 least expensive mode of transportation is to be 18 taken unless it's not medically appropriate or 19 whatever the exact words are, and I guess what 20 I'm trying to say is that we've passed legisla 21 tion oftentimes that is amended in the future 22 with additional ideas, and I just think this is 23 the start that we need in order to not only 9794 1 provide a less costly transportation system for 2 Medicaid recipients since we spend more in this 3 state than the next two states combined on 4 Medicaid, but also to assist those public 5 transportation entities that come to us year 6 after year for assistance because they're always 7 in the red. This would provide more revenues 8 for them as well. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Senator. 10 That is an answer that I can accept a lot better 11 than the answer you were giving before. I hope 12 you understand what my concern is and my concern 13 is the concern of access. 14 Now, it is -- you can say there's 15 a transportation system running near where the 16 individual might be going for treatment, but 17 let's say, as Senator Abate pointed out and 18 Senator Smith pointed out and others have 19 pointed out, that the buses may not come on 20 time. The buses may not come regularly. There 21 may be a problem with access for the disabled, 22 and these are ancillary problems that are built 23 into the system that may not actually be 9795 1 something that's recognized just on paper. 2 What I'm saying to you is that 3 members of the chamber are raising them as 4 issues and our response has got to be a fashion 5 of creating legislation such that it can 6 actually apply in a way that will be fair to 7 individuals, and what we're trying to alert you 8 to is that in New York City we have these 9 extraordinary problems that would be created by 10 this kind of an imposition. 11 I actually grew up on Long Island 12 and the transportation system in Long Island is 13 very sporadic and it would be a real incumbrance 14 and an added difficulty where that would be 15 alleviated by the ability to take a taxi or 16 something like that. 17 And so I'm just saying that it 18 may work out and it may be designated in such a 19 way in Syracuse, but this is a piece of 20 legislation that you're trying to pass 21 statewide. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson, is that in the form of a question or 9796 1 are you asking for a comment from Senator 2 DeFrancisco on that? 3 SENATOR PATERSON: It was just a 4 statement I guess the few of us that are here 5 might want to reflect on. 6 So I thank Senator DeFrancisco 7 for answering my questions and would advise the 8 president that Senator Gold just raised a moment 9 ago that we were desirous of a slow roll call on 10 this piece of legislation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 21 slow roll call request. Are there five Senators 22 in the chamber standing up? There are five, 23 Senator. I know Senator Onorato is having a 9797 1 hard time getting to his feet, but the Secretary 2 will call the roll slowly. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 4 (Negative indication.) 5 Senator Babbush. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Bruno. 8 (Affirmative indication.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 10 Senator Connor. 11 (Negative indication.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Nay. 13 Senator Cook. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 18 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 23 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 9798 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber, 4 excused. 5 Senator Gold. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Gonzalez. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Goodman. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Hannon. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Hoblock. 14 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Jones. 22 SENATOR JONES: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 9799 1 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Larkin. 7 (There was no audible response.) 8 Senator LaValle. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Leibell. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 15 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Marcellino. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 9800 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Markowitz. 3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 7 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Montgomery. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Nanula. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Nozzolio. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 9801 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Saland. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Sears. 10 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 16 SENATOR SMITH: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Stachowski. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford. 9802 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Trunzo. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Tully. 7 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Volker. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will call the absentees. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Cook. 21 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 23 (There was no response.) 9803 1 Senator Gonzalez. 2 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Hannon. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Lack. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator LaValle. 10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 12 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Montgomery. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 17 SENATOR NANULA: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Santiago. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Seward. 23 (There was no response.) 9804 1 Senator Spano. 2 SENATOR SPANO: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Trunzo. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Velella. 8 (There was no response.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Waldon. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 12 zigged when I should have zagged. My statement 13 should have been in the negative, not in the 14 affirmative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Waldon will be recorded in the negative. 17 Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: No. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 23 the results. 9805 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 14. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 The Secretary will continue to 5 call the controversial calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1304, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4509, an 8 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law, 9 in relation to eliminating limitations on 10 certain corporations. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Last section. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4513-A - 9806 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1306, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an 7 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 8 to notification of patients. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay the bill 11 aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958-A, an 16 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 17 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public 18 Service Commission. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Lay the bill 21 aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1312 - 9807 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 2 recognizes Senator Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. Mr. 4 President, please return to Calendar Number 5 1306, Senator Maziarz' bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Ask the 7 Secretary to read the title to Calendar Number 8 1306. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1360, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4805, an 11 act to amend the Public Health Law. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Maziarz, an explanation. 15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I thought you 16 were going to read the last section. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Maziarz, an explanation of Calendar Number 1306 19 has been asked for by a number of the members 20 from the Minority side. 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr. 22 President. 23 This bill very simply provides 9808 1 for the confidentiality of a patient's records 2 when a physician's practice is closed or sold. 3 Currently, nothing in state law provides 4 standards for physicians as regards to patient 5 notification upon closing or selling their 6 practice. 7 This is a concern for people who 8 have sensitive information in their medical 9 records and would prefer that their records not 10 automatically go to another physician or 11 unbeknownst to them sit in a storage at an 12 unknown location or even worse yet, an example 13 that happened in my district - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 15 me, Senator Maziarz. It's very noisy in here. 16 A lot of conversations going on. Could we 17 please -- if you have to have a conversation, 18 can you take out of the chamber. There's a lot 19 of motion. Please -- members, please take their 20 seats, the staff, stay in their seats. We have 21 a lot of bills to pass in the next 36 hours. 22 Thank you for your indulgence, 23 Senator Maziarz. 9809 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 My last point is that a patient's 4 records could, unbeknownst to them, be simply 5 thrown into the -- into the garbage. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 Senator Abate. 9 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would 10 Senator Maziarz yield to a question? 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR ABATE: I have one 16 concern, and I'm not sure if it can be addressed 17 today, but I ask you as the sponsor to look at 18 this issue. 19 As you know, I represent a 20 district where many members of my district are 21 HIV-positive, and they have communicated to me 22 their concern around issues of confidentiality, 23 and whereas I understand the good intent of this 9810 1 bill, they're concerned that when someone -- a 2 practitioner sells or disposes of their 3 practice, the records are then forwarded to the 4 address, and -- or a phone call -- there's some 5 communication between the patient and the 6 practitioner that the practice is going to be 7 transferred, and there's a concern that there 8 would be an abridgment of confidentiality that 9 in a sense the material will fall in the wrong 10 hands, and I'm not sure how that gets 11 corrected. I'm waiting to see if there's any 12 suggestions how to correct that. Have you heard 13 that concern? 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I have, 15 Senator, and - 16 SENATOR ABATE: What's your 17 reaction to it? Do you think this bill covers 18 their concerns? 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Well, I 20 contacted both the Medical Society who supports 21 this bill and also several physicians within my 22 district and they indicated to me, because I had 23 that same concern, and I received a memorandum 9811 1 from the Gay Men's Health Crisis regarding that 2 particular issue, and what the physicians 3 indicated to me was that at -- right now when a 4 physician has to deal with the patient either by 5 sending them bills for services rendered or 6 sending them reports of testing information, 7 whatever, that generally a physician will ask - 8 it's part of the standard form when you go to 9 the physician -- where would you like mail sent, 10 either to your business, your home, to a post 11 office box, and that primarily what would happen 12 in this notification -- or in this instance, the 13 -- either the physician would send the 14 information based on the patient's indications 15 to him initially. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Would you - 17 would the Senator yield -- continue to yield? 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator continues to yield. 21 SENATOR ABATE: Would you also 22 consider down the road -- I know that there's 23 another Senate Bill 15-B by Senator Farley which 9812 1 calls for the creation of a Health Care 2 Information Privacy Advisory Board. I'm hoping 3 that, if this board does become a reality, that 4 they would look at these confidentiality 5 concerns vis-a-vis this bill if it passes and 6 becomes law, because there may be some real 7 concerns. I do not have a solution how to 8 remedy it, but I would hope that if this does 9 pass, we take another fresh look at the -- at 10 the implementation, the execution of this 11 legislation and try to remedy some of these 12 issues. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I certainly 14 will do that, Senator. 15 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Solomon. 18 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Would 19 Senator Maziarz yield, please? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Maziarz, do you yield to Senator Solomon? 22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I do, Mr. 23 President. 9813 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, 4 reading your bill and correct me if I'm wrong, 5 it specifically says that the doctor notifies 6 the patient that he or she may request a copy of 7 their records and to do so, that patient must 8 request that in writing. What happens if that 9 patient's brother writes; it only goes to the 10 patient, I would assume? 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: It only goes to 12 the patient. 13 SENATOR SOLOMON: So, in effect, 14 Senator, this bill is protecting the confiden 15 tiality of that patient. No one in that family 16 can get those records other than the patient 17 because it's a process where, (a) is you send a 18 letter to the patient John Doe, at his residence 19 saying, "Dear John Doe: I'm closing my 20 practice. If you want a copy of your medical 21 records, sign the enclosed letter and send it 22 back to me", so only John Doe, that patient, can 23 request a copy of those records and the only 9814 1 notice that goes to his house is a notice that 2 Dr. Smith, wherever he might be -- he may be a 3 podiatrist -- is closing his practice, correct? 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That's correct, 5 Senator. 6 SENATOR SOLOMON: So the medical 7 records are secured only by the patient of the 8 doctor in writing. There must be a written 9 request to secure those records by that patient. 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That's correct, 11 Senator. 12 SENATOR SOLOMON: So this 13 protects the patient. There is no one besides 14 that patient that can request those records. 15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 16 Senator. 17 SENATOR SOLOMON: All right, 18 Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Solomon, are you -- Senator Solomon, are you 21 asking Senator Maziarz to continue to yield? 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. Will 23 Senator Maziarz continue to yield? 9815 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Will you 2 continue to yield, Senator Maziarz? 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator continues to yield. 7 SENATOR SOLOMON: Senator, in 8 effect -- the patient then in effect literally 9 controls the disbursement of those records and 10 they can refuse to have those records sent by 11 just not forwarding the response. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That is 13 correct, Senator. 14 SENATOR SOLOMON: Okay. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect 120 days after it shall 20 have become a law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9816 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 The Secretary will read Calendar 5 Number 1310. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1310, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4958-A, an 8 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 9 to the elimination of the mandate for the Public 10 Service Commission. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Skelos, an explanation by the substitute 14 Minority Leader, Senator Stachowski, has been 15 asked for on Calendar Number 1310. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: This legislation 17 would remove the Public Service Commission 18 mandate for a complete management audit on 19 certain phone companies every five years and 20 replace it with the concept of only as needed. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If the 22 Senator would yield for a question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9817 1 Stachowski is asking Senator Skelos to yield. 2 Do you yield? The Senator yields. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, the 4 only concern is -- and you can probably take 5 care of this. Is there any -- is there -- by 6 making this periodical rather than yearly, is 7 there still all the safeguards dealing with 8 those phone companies by the consumers? 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, there is. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1312, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5045, an 23 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 9818 1 relation to authorizing a residential parking 2 system. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Goodman, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: Before this 7 bill is taken up, with the consent of the - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is on the floor, Senator Goodman, right now. An 10 explanation of the bill has been asked for. 11 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is 14 Senator Velella in the chamber? Can we lay this 15 bill aside, Senator Skelos? 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay this bill 17 aside temporarily and please recognize Senator 18 Goodman. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay this 20 bill aside temporarily. 21 Senator Goodman. 22 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 9819 1 Mr. President, for the record, 2 had I been in the chamber on June 13th, I would 3 have voted in the affirmative on Calendar Number 4 1187, Senate Bill Number 5173-A, and the same 5 applies to a bill today, Calendar Number 1299, 6 Print Number 3520, in the affirmative. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 record will reflect, Senator Goodman, that had 10 you been in the chamber earlier this week on 11 Tuesday, June 13th, that you would have voted in 12 the affirmative on Calendar Number 1187-A. 13 Without objection, and hearing no objection, you 14 will be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar 15 Number 1299 -- excuse me, Senator Goodman. That 16 was a slow roll call, but the record will 17 reflect that, had you been in the chamber, you 18 would have voted in the affirmative on Calendar 19 Number 1299. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 again, I would urge the members as their bills 23 come up, if they could please be in the chambers 9820 1 to debate the bill, if they're prepared to 2 debate the bill or at least lay it aside if they 3 need a little extra time to prepare debate for 4 the bill, but we -- we've asked the Minority to 5 be cooperative with us and they certainly are 6 going to give us their best effort to do so, so 7 we can move expeditiously today as we try to 8 close session by tomorrow, June 15th, so please 9 watch the calendar. If you see that one of your 10 bills are coming up, if you want to explain it, 11 please be in the chambers. If you want to 12 debate it, please be in the chambers. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 17 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 18 332 of the Capitol. The Senate will stand at 19 ease pending receipt of the Rules report, then I 20 believe the Minority has asked for a conference 21 on a bill. So we'll break for about -- we're 22 not going to recess. We're going to stand at 23 ease until 1:30, and we'll have the Rules 9821 1 Committee meeting right now. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 4 Committee -- immediate meeting of the Rules 5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 6 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 7 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 8 There will be a Minority Conference immediately 9 following that. The Senate will stand at 10 ease - 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 could you recognize Senator Wright, please? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Wright. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 There will be an immediate 18 meeting of the Senate Task Force on Defense 19 Spending in Room 123. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Also be 21 an immediate meeting of the Senate Task Force on 22 the Defense Industry in Room 123. The Senate 23 will stand at ease until 1:30 sharp. 9822 1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 2 ease from 12:59 p.m. until 2:05 p.m.) 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Before we have a 7 -- reports of standing committee from the Rules 8 Committee, I would like to ask the members on 9 both sides of the aisle, if they could start 10 coming back into the -- into the chambers. 11 We're going to start off with a reading of the 12 new Rules Committee report and then we are going 13 to have a vote on Senator Levy's bill which - 14 Calendar Number 728 and the Minority has 15 informed me that there will most likely be a 16 slow roll call on that, so if we could get all 17 the members in the chamber at this time. 18 Mr. President, would you please 19 call up Senator Levy's bill, Calendar Number 20 728, for the purpose of Senator Leichter voting. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 23 728. 9823 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973-C, an act 3 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 4 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by 5 persons under the age of 21. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This 9 act shall take effect on the first day of 10 November. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Please recognize 15 Senator Leichter. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter, how do you vote? 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative. 21 The roll call is withdrawn. The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 The Chair recognizes Senator 9824 1 Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 if we could return to reports of standing 4 committees, I believe there's a report of the 5 Rules Committee, and I ask that it be read at 6 this time. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 8 a report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 9 We'll return to the reports of standing 10 committees, and I'll ask the Secretary to read 11 the Rules report. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 14 following bills: 15 Senate Print 1059, by Senator 16 Waldon, an act authorizing the city of New York 17 to reconvey its interest in certain real 18 property acquired by in rem tax foreclosure in 19 the borough of Queens; 20 2458-A, by Senator Skelos, an act 21 to amend the Family Court Act, in relation to 22 orders of protection; 23 2949-A, by Senator Dollinger, an 9825 1 act validating the conversion of Roselawn Refuse 2 and Garbage District; 3 3006-A, by Senator Libous, an act 4 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation 5 to the presence of counsel; 6 3236, by Senator LaValle, an act 7 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 8 to forfeiture of benefits; 9 3493-A, by Senator Hoblock, an 10 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to 11 the Deputy Commander of the New York Army 12 National Guard; 13 3631-A, by Senator Stafford, 14 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 15 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 2, 10, 11 16 and 16 of Article VII of the Constitution; 17 3839-A, by Senator Sears, an act 18 to amend the General Business Law, in relation 19 to false price comparisons; 20 3905-A, by Senator Rath, an act 21 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act 22 and Chapter 402 of the Laws of 1994; 23 4253, by Senator Tully, an act to 9826 1 amend the Public Health Law and the Education 2 Law, in relation to professional misconduct; 3 4329-A, by Senator Maziarz, an 4 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 5 disqualification of life insurance 6 beneficiaries; 7 4529-A, by Senator Tully, an act 8 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 9 relation to the harvest and shipment of 10 shellfish; 11 4799, by Senator Volker, an act 12 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to including 13 certain obscenity crimes in the definition of 14 criminal act; 15 4815, by Senator Johnson, an act 16 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to the 17 definition of small groups; 18 4918, by Senator Jones, an act to 19 reclassify Dorothy L. Barnatones as a Tier I 20 member of the New York State and Local Employees 21 Retirement System; 22 4924, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 23 authorizing the county of Monroe to participate 9827 1 in a cooperative corporation; 2 4932-A, by Senator Farley, an act 3 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to the 4 restoration and display of New York State's 5 military battle flags; 6 5001, by Senator Connor, an act 7 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 8 interest in certain real property; 9 5012, by Senator Nanula, an act 10 to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation to 11 the private sale of bonds; 12 5085, by Senator Kuhl, an act in 13 relation to authorizing the village of Penn Yan, 14 Yates County to issue serial bonds; 15 5094, by Senator Maltese, 16 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 17 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 5, 6 and 8 18 of Article II of the Constitution; 19 5292, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 20 amend the Limited Liability Company Law and the 21 Partnership Law, in relation to certain 22 professional services; 23 5301, by Senator Maltese, an act 9828 1 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 2 withholding of exculpatory evidence; 3 5302, by Senator Maltese, an act 4 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation 5 to jury consideration; 6 5326, by Senator Levy, an act to 7 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 8 to authorizing the Department of Motor Vehicles 9 to sell to the highest bidder motor vehicle 10 title information; 11 5329, by Senator Leibell, an act 12 to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in 13 relation to the state's involvement in the 14 National Affordable Housing Act; 15 5333, by the Committee on Rules, 16 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 17 extending the effectiveness of provisions 18 authorizing the county of Rensselaer to impose 19 an additional one percent of sales and 20 compensating use tax; 21 5343, by Senator Marchi, an act 22 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to 23 pilotage fees; 9829 1 5348, by Senator DiCarlo, an act 2 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 3 relation to the enforcement of certain kosher 4 food laws; 5 5357, by Senator Johnson, an act 6 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, in 7 relation to the definition of facility; 8 5377, by Senator Maltese, an act 9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation 10 to the powers of the United States Park Police; 11 5379, by Senator Holland, an act 12 to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to 13 the pass through of federal cost of living 14 adjustments; 15 5371, by Senator Goodman, an act 16 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 17 to the determination of adjusted based 18 proportions; and 19 5321, by Senator Maziarz, an act 20 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation 21 to period of limitation. 22 All bills ordered directly for 23 third reading. 9830 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. I move we 4 accept the report of the Rules Committee, and I 5 believe they're all being reported to third 6 reading. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 motion is to accept the report of the Rules 9 Committee. All those in favor signify by saying 10 aye. 11 (Response of "Aye".) 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The Rules report is adopted. All 15 bills are directed directly to third reading. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 at this time if we could take up Senator Levy's 18 bill, Calendar Number 728. As I mentioned, I 19 believe that this bill has been debated and 20 there will now be a roll call on the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the title to Calendar 23 Number - 9831 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 2 call, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos, can we -- before we take up this bill, 5 we've got a couple of housekeeping -- we're 6 looking at a couple of rush prints. Can we do 7 that quickly? Okay. 8 The Chair recognizes Senator 9 Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 On behalf of Senator Velella, on 13 page 36, I offer the following amendments to 14 Calendar Number 1312, Senate Print 5045, and I 15 ask that that bill retain its place on the Third 16 Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 amendments are received and adopted. The bill 19 will retain its place on the Third Reading 20 Calendar. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 22 Senator Levy, on page 21, I offer the following 23 amendments to Calendar 876, Senate Print 4986-B, 9832 1 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the 2 Third Reading Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 amendments to Calendar Number 876 are received 5 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 6 the Third Reading Calendar. 7 Senator Farley. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 9 Senator Spano, on page 21, I offer the following 10 amendments to Calendar 861, Senate Print 3975-C, 11 and I ask that that bill retain its place on the 12 Third Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 amendments to Calendar Number 861 are received 15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 16 the Third Reading Calendar. 17 Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 19 Senator Levy, please remove the sponsor's star 20 from Calendar Number 841. 21 Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The star 23 will be removed on Calendar Number 841 at the 9833 1 request of the sponsor. 2 The Secretary will read the 3 title. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 728, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 973-C, an act 6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 7 relation to operation of a motor vehicle by 8 persons under the age of 21. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 10 last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 13 call. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This 17 act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: A slow 9834 1 roll has been requested. Are there five 2 Senators standing? There are five Senators 3 standing requesting a slow roll call. The 4 Secretary will read the roll call slowly. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Bruno. 10 (Affirmative indication.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 12 Senator Connor. 13 (Negative indication.) 14 THE SECRETARY: No. 15 Senator Cook. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator DeFrancisco. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 20 SENATOR DiCARLO: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 9835 1 President. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 3 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Galiber, 7 excused. 8 Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Goodman. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Hannon. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Hoffmann. 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Johnson. 23 (There was no response.) 9836 1 Senator Jones. 2 SENATOR JONES: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 4 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 6 SENATOR KUHL: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 8 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 14 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter 16 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 17 Senator Levy. 18 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9837 1 Marcellino. 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Markowitz. 6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Montgomery. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Nozzolio. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 9838 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 7 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Santiago. 11 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 13 SENATOR SEARS: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 19 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Solomon. 21 SENATOR SOLOMON: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 9839 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Stachowski. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Trunzo voting in the 9 affirmative earlier today. 10 Senator Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 13 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Wright. 19 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will call the absentees. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 23 (There was no response.) 9840 1 Senator Cook. 2 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Goodman. 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Holland. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Johnson. 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 14 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 16 SENATOR NANULA: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Waldon. 9841 1 (Negative indication.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Holland, how do you vote? 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will announce the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays 12. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 Senator Lack, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I was unavoidably out of the 15 chamber at a meeting at the Rockefeller 16 Institute when a vote was taken on Calendar 17 1299. Could the record reflect that if I had 18 been present, I would have voted yes on Calendar 19 1299, S.3520? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 calendar will reflect, Senator Lack, that had 22 you been in the chamber when the vote was taken 23 on Calendar 1299 that you would have voted in 9842 1 the affirmative. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 4 housekeeping at this time? Could we call up 5 Calendar Number 1272, by Senator DiCarlo. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 8 1272. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1272, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 3486-A, 11 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 12 relation to the powers of the Dormitory 13 Authority. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 9843 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 6 call up Senator Padavan's bill, Calendar Number 7 12... 1292. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 10 1292. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 701, an 13 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 14 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully 15 admitted aliens. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 if we could go a little out of order and the 20 Minority has requested if we could take up 21 Calendar Number 1296 at this time. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 23 right. 1292 will be laid aside temporarily. 9844 1 I'll ask the Secretary to read 2 the title to Calendar Number 1296, by Senator 3 Padavan. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1296, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3092, an 6 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 7 relation to the exclusion of illegal aliens from 8 receiving publicly-funded health care. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 10 recognizes Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 would you please recognize Senator Espada who 13 would request an explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Espada. 16 SENATOR ESPADA: Explanation, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan -- Senator Padavan, an explanation of 20 Calendar Number 1296 has been asked for by 21 Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 9845 1 I'm taking it out of order, 2 Senator, but I'll certainly try to accommodate 3 you. What this bill will do is strengthen the 4 current prohibitions we have against illegal 5 aliens receiving public health care benefits 6 other than those mandated by the federal 7 government, particularly in the category 8 relating to emergency medical care. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: If I might, Mr. 12 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple of 13 questions, please? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, certainly. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Padavan yields. 17 SENATOR ESPADA: We thank Senator 18 Padavan for yielding. 19 The first question, Senator 20 Padavan, has to do with the reasonably -- the 21 reasonable suspicion that - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Espada, excuse me for the interruption. It's 9846 1 just a little noisy in here. We'll wait until 2 everybody has decided they want to stop talking 3 to listen to you until we continue. 4 Senator Espada, I think we're 5 ready to continue now. Thank you for the 6 interruption. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you. 8 The determination of a 9 consideration that has to be made rests on a 10 judgment of -- and it reads on line 15, Section 11 2 -- it starts on 14 that if any publicly-funded 12 health care facility in this state from whom a 13 person seeks health care services other than 14 emergency medical care as required by federal 15 law, et cetera, determines or reasonably 16 suspects based upon the information provided, et 17 cetera, that the person is then worthy of some 18 kind of administrative evaluation as to their 19 legal status. 20 So my question is since it lacks 21 specificity in law -- in your bill, whether you 22 can provide some more specificity as to what 23 determinations or what criteria one would weigh 9847 1 with respect to making that determination of 2 what is reasonable suspicion under your bill. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, you 4 read ahead to the middle of the first page, but 5 you skipped over the top of the first page, and 6 I think in that portion of the bill your answer 7 lies. 8 It indicates that legal status is 9 verified in a number of specific ways, and it 10 lists them. Citizen, obviously, an alien 11 lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an 12 alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period 13 of time or a person who's otherwise authorized 14 under federal law to be present in the United 15 States. 16 Now, such persons, obviously, can 17 verify that without any difficulty. If that - 18 such requirements are not met, then obviously we 19 may have a problem and further verification may 20 be necessary. 21 I might add in answering your 22 question even more fully, the Congressional 23 Commission on Immigration Reform which has been 9848 1 getting a lot of attention lately in the media, 2 in their report to Congress in the fall -- and 3 I'm going to read the sentence to you -- "the 4 commission recommends that illegal aliens should 5 not be eligible for any publicly-funded services 6 or assistance except those made available on an 7 emergency basis." It goes on to further amplify 8 that statement. 9 So what our bill is doing here is 10 simply -- perhaps not so simply, but certainly 11 directly responding to this commission's 12 recommendation. 13 I might also add, and I think I 14 brought this up the other day, the President's 15 May 6th address to the nation on immigration 16 stated very directly that aliens -- "Illegal 17 aliens should not be receiving benefits for 18 public services or welfare." Again, that's a 19 direct quote from the speech. 20 So what we have before us is a 21 bill that seeks to accomplish those two goals as 22 stated by Barbara Jordan in her commission and 23 by the President of the United States and 9849 1 certainly I think is consistent with what the 2 people believe is fair and equitable. We must 3 provide emergency services for any person in 4 this country, legal or illegal, but there are 5 many other services that are currently being 6 provided, if you accept the inputs from the 7 state Welfare Inspector General, Mr. Elmer Toro 8 and other credible sources, including the state 9 Department of Social Services gave us specific 10 information relevant to this issue, and if you 11 have had an opportunity to read our two reports, 12 we provide chapter and verse what the various 13 state and city agencies have advised us is the 14 case relevant to this issue and other related 15 issues. 16 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, 17 if I may follow up. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan, do you continue to yield? The Senator 20 continues to yield. 21 SENATOR ESPADA: We're -- my 22 question, Senator Paterson, and I -- Padavan, 23 and I wanted to have you edify this because the 9850 1 question still remains unanswered. I am not 2 talking about the criteria that -- that -- and 3 the classes of -- that an immigrant or permanent 4 resident is or is not. I'm talking about when 5 you, myself, any member of our families would go 6 into an emergency room of a public clinic and 7 that person there, be they a doctor, be they a 8 social worker has to pull the trigger, as it 9 were, to see whether or not I am entitled to 10 this service post-adoption of your -- of your 11 bill. How do they -- these people that have 12 been trained as social workers, physicians, mid 13 level management or what have you, how would 14 they implement this exclusion on the basis of my 15 presenting myself for assistance at their desk, 16 at their door? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm 18 sure you've had a driver's license and when you 19 applied for it, you had to demonstrate who you 20 were, what you were, birth certificate, all 21 kinds of things. There are a variety of ways a 22 person can demonstrate that they are a legal 23 resident of this country and have to in so many 9851 1 other areas. 2 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, 3 if I may just - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Senator continues to yield. 9 SENATOR ESPADA: Wouldn't this 10 require, Senator Padavan, though, a universal 11 screening because anything short of that would 12 get into the area of being very selective and 13 maybe discriminatory and I know you don't want 14 to enter into the latter, so given the fact that 15 we must be -- it must be an open-ended, 16 universal system of screening, you or me or 17 anybody that presents themselves because we 18 don't carry distinguishing features that say I'm 19 illegal or you're illegal, then I would have to 20 -- upon applying for a license, yes, you're 21 right, we do all of those things. Certainly 22 that screening would then apply and whatever 23 rules, whatever checks they want to implement 9852 1 would be provided for everyone that presents 2 themselves for care at these publicly-funded 3 institutions. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Any person 5 going to a hospital has to provide under any 6 circumstance certain information, Social 7 Security number, identification. You know, this 8 is true for everyone. 9 What we're saying here is that 10 while emergency services are mandated, other 11 optional and non-emergency services are not for 12 illegal immigrants, and we are requiring 13 verification. 14 The city of New York alone and 15 the Health and Hospitals Corporation has $63 16 million in non-reimbursable costs associated 17 with this population, meaning they did not 18 qualify because they're not legal residents for 19 Medicaid or any other category. 20 I don't believe it's unreasonable 21 for us to seek this process mandate. It's not 22 already being done, and in parts of the state it 23 is being done. There is no uniformity, however, 9853 1 and to reflect, it's very sound recommendations 2 that are coming from credible entities such as 3 the ones I mentioned. 4 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator Padavan, 5 through you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator continues to yield. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: I would take the 12 liberty and let it act as a preface to the next 13 question, that this would create an awesome 14 bureaucratic immigration status determination 15 system, and coming from the not-for-profit 16 sector and the human service delivery sector, we 17 can predict that we're going to have this 18 incredible system where people that are not 19 trained will have a new job description or, for 20 that matter, that new people, new employees 21 would carry this kind of job title. Somewhere 22 in the management scheme of things, someone is 23 going to have to do this job. 9854 1 My contention may be that that 2 person is not even there now so new costs will 3 be added, but there's no question around the 4 issue of costs in this thing. Where are we 5 going to get the money? I know from hearing 6 past debates that you do not believe in unfunded 7 mandates, so where are we going to get the 8 money? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: I have stated 10 to you on this issue and I urge you, whether you 11 agree with the direction we're in or not, read 12 the two studies that we generated which are 99 13 percent information provided by New York State 14 Department of Social Services, New York City 15 Department of Social Services, Health and 16 Hospitals Corporation, every city and state 17 agency that has any relevance. Read the 18 information they provide. 19 Now, as far as costs, simply by 20 weeding out illegal immigrants from hospital 21 services to which they are not entitled, we will 22 be saving conservatively -- and this is DSS 23 numbers provided to us for the calendar year 9855 1 1992 -- between 20- and $30 million. That's 2 their number. I didn't make it up. I'll give 3 you the report. You can read it for yourself. 4 Now, for us to save that kind of 5 money, I don't know what you're talking about 6 when you say unfunded mandate. Have you -- I'm 7 sure you have, because I have -- been in one of 8 the Health and Hospitals Corporation facilities 9 at the intake area where a person comes into the 10 emergency room and then is processed for 11 admission. If you have, and you're nodding yes, 12 you know they seek documentation from you 13 today. They don't just let you in the door and 14 give all your -- there is someone there today 15 looking for a Medicaid card, if that's 16 appropriate or any other documentation, if 17 that's appropriate. 18 So there is no cost associated 19 with this. What there is, is millions and 20 millions of dollars of potential savings, and 21 the federal government, the President and many, 22 many people are saying, including the state 23 Department of Social Services, that we do this 9856 1 sort of thing. 2 SENATOR ESPADA: If I may, Mr. 3 President. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: The only 5 alternative, if I may add one sentence, is to do 6 nothing and, if that's what you're suggesting, 7 then I have no way to answer your question. 8 SENATOR ESPADA: My question was 9 with respect to costs, and you got caught up in 10 a couple other things, but I want to go back to 11 some cost issues. 12 These agencies that are going to 13 implement these exclusions have probably in 14 total lost at least $1 billion in various 15 cutbacks. That same Health and Hospitals 16 Corporation that you note admonished us that if 17 we passed the cost containment and Medicaid cuts 18 that we did, that they would lose millions and 19 millions -- $750 million was a conservative 20 estimate. It had nothing to do with illegal 21 aliens or anything of the type, so they already 22 have a major problem that we contributed to, but 23 beyond that, I asked you a question about costs 9857 1 and you give me the lectures about what I should 2 read. 3 I'm reading your bill, and I'm 4 asking questions only about your bill, and it 5 says that if I work in one of these places and 6 someone presents themselves, then I have to ask 7 any number of questions that would lead me to 8 ascertain and determine whether or not they are 9 a citizen of the United States, an alien 10 lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an 11 alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period 12 of time or a person who is otherwise authorized 13 under the federal law to be present in the 14 United States. 15 No one right now is in a position 16 to ask those questions and make those 17 determinations. Therefore, somebody's going to 18 have to do that. It doesn't sound like a simple 19 task. When I get through doing that, then I 20 have to go to INS and I have to go to the 21 Attorney General. It sounds like a heck of a 22 job. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: If I may 9858 1 respond to Senator Espada. 2 First, I disagree with your 3 contention that there is no one there to do it 4 now. An intake person at any hospital already 5 requires that individuals provide certain 6 documentation. I might also add that seeking 7 employment, if you are not a citizen, you must 8 provide documentation. You know that's a 9 federal law with some very serious penalties on 10 employers who violate it. So this is not a new 11 concept. 12 I take issue with your comment 13 that you should not read the supporting 14 documentation, because the information -- if I 15 may -- the information - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Espada, you asked Senator Padavan a question. 18 He should be allowed to answer it. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: The information 20 that we have obtained over the course of two 21 years seeking input from every credible source 22 is the basis by which we move in the direction 23 we're moving. 9859 1 When I tell you that the state 2 Department of Social Services provided 3 information for us for the calendar year 1992 in 4 terms of illegal aliens and the figure that they 5 estimate in terms of the costs for this 6 particular issue is between 20- and 30 million, 7 that's verifiable information that you can check 8 if you wish. It's not in the bill, but it's a 9 fact, and there is a great deal more. 10 So I point these things out to 11 you simply to justify the initiative we are 12 undertaking here on this bill and other bills 13 and, as I said before, if we do not do things of 14 this sort, then the only option for us to do is 15 nothing, not to be concerned at all about 16 persons going into our hospitals, both public 17 and private, taking advantage of medical 18 services that are not in the emergency category 19 and falling into the bad debt and charity pool, 20 because that's where they fall, because they're 21 not covered by insurance. They're not covered 22 by Medicaid, and I assume you're familiar with 23 the costs to the state in the bad debt and 9860 1 charity pool. That's part of this cost, a large 2 part of it, and the Health and Hospitals 3 Corporation is suffering. We know that. 4 I have two hospitals in Queens 5 that I'm intimately familiar with, Queens 6 Hospital Center and Elmhurst. I know the 7 problems they're suffering, but I have also been 8 in their emergency wards, in the clinics, and if 9 you were there with me, many of your questions 10 would be answered. 11 So what I'm saying to you here - 12 and by the way, I have also talked to social 13 workers who say, you know, we know this person 14 is an undocumented alien, but current policy 15 here in the city of New York is such that we 16 can't do anything about it, so we have to 17 provide the full range of services because they 18 claim to be whatever. 19 This is going on -- this is in 20 the real world, not just in New York State and 21 New York City, by the way, it's in Los Angeles. 22 It's in eastern Texas, it's in Miami, and that's 23 why those governors have gone into the federal 9861 1 courts seeking remuneration from the federal 2 government, and so have we. It's not unique to 3 New York City and New York State, but we're part 4 of six regions and we're being directed. We're 5 being encouraged by the President, by the 6 commissioner and many others to do whatever we 7 can to help ourselves. 8 If you have problems with that, I 9 can't help you, but nevertheless, when you say 10 you have trouble understanding that we want a 11 hospital to verify whether that person is an 12 illegal or legal immigrant when they seek 13 non-emergency services, well, then we part 14 company, because I don't know how to answer you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Espada. 17 SENATOR ESPADA: Mr. President, 18 if I may. Before we part company, if we can 19 just continue, because in answering my question, 20 you raised some new and related issues. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Padavan, do you yield to Senator Espada? 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 9862 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR ESPADA: If you and I 4 were to take a walk through your emergency rooms 5 or mine, through the subway stations or the 6 restaurants in your district or mine, I do not 7 think that we would have the requisite skills 8 and orientation to go out there and detect 9 illegal aliens and, you know, identify them. 10 Was that where you were drawing me to, that upon 11 a glance, upon entering an emergency room of a 12 hospital that it would be that crystal clear 13 that it was inhabited by illegal aliens? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, either 15 I'm being inartful in responding to you or 16 somehow the acoustics are not good here, but 17 what I said several times, at least three times, 18 that when you enter a hospital, public or 19 private, if you are a Medicaid person, you must 20 show your Medicaid card. If you're covered by a 21 private third-party insurer, you must indicate 22 who that is. If you are a citizen, you provide 23 your Social Security number or other relevant 9863 1 information. That is normal procedure now. The 2 person at the counter hands you a clipboard or 3 form and says, "Fill this out. Fill it out." 4 That's what's going on today. 5 Now, we're saying in this bill 6 that if that person doesn't provide any of the 7 information that's currently required, then - 8 and they cannot verify that they're there in 9 this country as -- legally and they're not there 10 for emergency services, then this kicks in. 11 That's what I said to you. I didn't say 12 anything about walking through the subway or any 13 other place. 14 SENATOR ESPADA: I thought I 15 heard you say that, if we walked into the 16 emergency room, that the problems would be 17 abundantly clear. Let's leave that to the side. 18 I think we could probably make more ground 19 dispelling some of the other myths that you laid 20 out, though. 21 Bad debt and charity pool of New 22 York State, respective reimbursement system, I 23 am very familiar with that. You know in your 9864 1 district -- probably more in yours because it's 2 more middle income than mine -- there are lots 3 of working class people, American citizens that 4 they are, who have no insurance who go to the 5 emergency room, the OBG clinics, have babies, 6 get treated for all kinds of maladies that make 7 up the reimbursement that's in that pool. 8 That's where that money goes. 9 How can you possibly say that 10 that money is supporting provision of care to 11 illegal aliens when, in fact, it is providing 12 care to working class people who are medically 13 indigent and have no insurance? A major problem 14 in this state and this country. That's what 15 that pool is there for, not to subsidize 16 provision of care to illegal immigrants. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 18 if I may respond. What I said to you, Senator, 19 was that this cost of providing non-emergency 20 and emergency, by the way, health care to 21 illegal immigrants becomes part of a hospital's 22 non-reimbursement income, either Medicaid or 23 third party or any other. I said it becomes 9865 1 part of that significant sum of money that is a 2 factor in the difficulties that our hospital 3 system in the city of New York is currently 4 experiencing. I did not say it was the entire 5 bad debt and charity pool. I said it was a 6 contributing component. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: Senator 8 Padavan,. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: Just on these 12 issues of public health and safety which I know 13 is of concern to you, the -- but before we go 14 there, I just wanted to clarify one point. Is 15 there any social work organization, educational 16 association, physician or public health 17 association that supports your measure? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I have 19 not received any memos in opposition from any 20 such organizations - 21 SENATOR ESPADA: I'm saying in 22 favor of. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- one way or 9866 1 the other, and I would assume that if they were 2 troubled by this, they would have communicated 3 that, the specific organizations that you're 4 talking about. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Espada. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: The public 8 health and safety concerns -- Mr. President, 9 through you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator continues to yield. 15 SENATOR ESPADA: -- will this 16 legislation -- and it's A-B, so if I can just 17 get out the A and B -- will this legislation 18 deny access to children for purposes of 19 immunizations, vaccines and will it also deny 20 women of prenatal care? In addition to that, 21 are you at all concerned that dangerous and 22 contagious disease entities will go undiagnosed 23 and untreated and then, in fact, affect us all, 9867 1 citizens and immigrants alike? 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: There were a 3 number of questions there. Let's see if I can 4 respond. Someone who arrives at a clinic and 5 has a communicable disease, that's an emergency 6 situation and under the federal mandate would 7 have to be treated. If an undocumented -- if an 8 illegal alien is identified at a clinic or at a 9 hospital seeking prenatal care, that is not an 10 emergency situation. If a child is born here 11 even of illegal aliens, that child is a citizen 12 and would receive and be entitled to all of the 13 care, including inoculations. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Espada. 16 SENATOR ESPADA: Just to press on 17 the issue, though, of - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR ESPADA: -- if I'm 9868 1 already here, you don't know my status, then you 2 find out my status and I'm a young child that 3 was not born here, will I be denied 4 immunizations at these publicly-funded clinics? 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: I didn't hear 6 the first part. Did you say I don't know my 7 status? 8 SENATOR ESPADA: Yeah. I have 9 not revealed my status. My status is not at 10 issue to me. I'm just a baby who, guardian or 11 somebody is bringing me into the public health 12 delivery system and that person cannot prove 13 that -- my status, will I be denied 14 immunizations and vaccines? 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: When you use 16 the word "prove", Senator, we've gone over that 17 for a good half hour. If there's no 18 verification in any one of the broad categories, 19 the specific categories we've talked about and 20 that person is identified thereby as an illegal 21 alien, if it is a non-emergency service, then 22 they're not entitled to health care today by 23 law, by federal law. We have been violating it. 9869 1 SENATOR ESPADA: So we will in 2 some fashion -- clearly in this fashion, we will 3 be denying that access? I hear you loud and 4 clear. You think that that service should be 5 denied. All I'm saying is as a result of that, 6 we will, in fact, be denying children 7 immunizations. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Which children 9 are you -- will the Senator yield? 10 SENATOR ESPADA: Of course. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm 12 going to ask you two questions: Number one, do 13 you believe that illegal aliens should receive a 14 full gamut, a full range of health care services 15 in New York State, in New York City? That's 16 question one. 17 Question two, do you 18 differentiate between various age groups in that 19 category? 20 SENATOR ESPADA: I would uphold 21 whatever the federal statutes and whatever the 22 state statutes are with respect to that -- those 23 exclusions. 9870 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will the 2 Senator yield again? 3 SENATOR ESPADA: Yep. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: The federal 7 statute says that the only required health care 8 is for emergency situation service and, again, I 9 repeat, the President is saying you've got to do 10 that. The commissioner is saying you've got to 11 do that, Congress and U.S. Senators, and so on, 12 and so forth. Do you agree with that? 13 SENATOR ESPADA: I not only 14 understand and agree with it, my problem is not 15 with those statutes and my understanding of 16 those statutes. My problem is when you try to 17 make doctors and teachers, social workers, INS 18 agents and when you go about that in this 19 fashion which can -- is fraught with potential 20 -- in terms of discrimination with vigilante 21 self-enforcement and all of those judgments that 22 have to be made about the people that we're 23 talking about and then coupled with the public 9871 1 health and safety dangers that will be a direct 2 result of having contagions out there untreated, 3 TB, sexually-transmitted diseases, the HIV 4 virus, you name it and you think what we don't 5 even know about right now which your report 6 speaks to, okay, then we can turn our back on 7 that and cite federal statute and state statute, 8 but that's not the issue in this bill. The 9 issue in this bill is that we're creating new 10 INS personnel at the state's expense and at 11 local expense as well. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 13 I'm responding. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Padavan to respond. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: We're not 17 providing new INS personnel at our health 18 facilities. We're utilizing the current 19 system. Let me read something to you, Senator, 20 since we're entering this dialogue. This is 21 again from the report, U.S. Commission on 22 Immigration Reform, by the way, appointed by the 23 prior Congress, been in effect for a couple of 9872 1 years, going all over the country. 2 "The Commission firmly believes 3 that benefit policies should continue to send 4 this message, if aliens enter the U.S. 5 unlawfully, they will not receive aid except in 6 limited instances. Federal legislation should 7 permit states and localities to limit 8 eligibility of illegal aliens on this same 9 basis." 10 Senator, either you accept that 11 or you don't. I don't think we have any choice 12 but to accept it. We cannot be the health care 13 provider for the entire world. We cannot be the 14 place where people come from every conceivable 15 part of this globe seeking health care, 16 particularly during this point in time. Now, 17 either we draw a line somewhere following the 18 federal mandates or we do not. 19 The current intake process is 20 adequate today to apply this proposed 21 legislation. They are there doing the intake 22 evaluation today, and I would say to you, talk 23 to any person in that category, you will find 9873 1 that this is no problem. I have, but today by 2 virtue of Executive Order 124 in the city of New 3 York, they're precluded from doing anything 4 about it. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Espada, you have the floor. 7 Senator Espada. 8 SENATOR ESPADA: I would like to 9 go on the bill, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Espada on the bill. 12 SENATOR ESPADA: These exclusions 13 under the Padavan bill right before this house 14 now and the set of bills that he has proposed 15 seek to mirror, by his own words, Proposition 16 187 that passed in California, and these efforts 17 in California -- the efforts to implement the 18 California Proposition 187 have been blocked by 19 the courts by a -- multiple court injunctions. 20 There's litigation clogging up the court system 21 there as a result of this because many of these 22 provisions are considered unconstitutional, 23 unconstitutional there, and probably -- and most 9874 1 likely very, very unconstitutional here given 2 our provisions to provide for the needy 3 irrespective of residency -- I mean, rather, 4 citizenship. 5 Now, yesterday we had a proposal 6 for a rules change. We sought to have a debate 7 on a ban on assault weapons, and while I don't 8 want to reopen that, there was some comments 9 made about political grandstanding and what have 10 you. I do not believe that Senator Padavan is 11 involved in political grandstanding. 12 However, his bill does do this: 13 It creates costly unfunded mandates. It creates 14 tremendous administrative burdens for agencies 15 that by virtue of budget actions, whether you 16 come on the side that they were absolutely 17 required, they were cost containment measures or 18 what have you, they result in less money for the 19 Health and Hospitals Corporation, their 20 emergency room clinics and for those involved in 21 human service delivery in the area of pediatric 22 care and other stations where people in need go 23 for care. 9875 1 There was just no question about 2 that, that it would jeopardize the health and 3 safety of New Yorkers right now. We have a 4 method by which people are being diagnosed and 5 treated for communicable diseases, from 6 contagions known and maybe their derivative in 7 terms of their clinical base may be even unknown 8 as we speak but they are, in fact, being 9 diagnosed, we know, and monitored -- care is 10 being monitored. All of that would disappear as 11 a result of this and, in fact, endanger the 12 public safety. 13 You know, there's something much 14 worse than all of that with this bill, though. 15 It does get into the issue of the divisions, the 16 scars that are in our community. We have enough 17 of those in the mixed and beautiful, in Mayor 18 Dinkins' terms, mosaic that we have in New York 19 City, but this kind of thing would create 20 tremendous divisions in our community. 21 I just want to cite for the 22 record what has happened in California and the 23 consequences of Proposition 187 in the everyday 9876 1 life of people there in that state. 2 A woman waiting to board a bus 3 was told by the bus driver, quote, "We don't 4 have to let 'wetbacks' on this bus", end of 5 quote, before he drove off without her. 6 A supermarket check-out clerk 7 demanded to see a Social Security card from a 8 Latino woman as she tried to purchase groceries. 9 A fifth grade teacher asked 10 students during class if they had immigration 11 papers and then assigned students homework to 12 write about their parents' immigration status. 13 A Little League coach required 14 team members to show proof of their parents' 15 lawful immigration status before being admitted 16 to the team. 17 And lastly, I'll cite this one. 18 A 12-year-old victim of leukemia died after his 19 parents decided not to take him to the hospital 20 for fear of deportation. 21 These are the kinds of real 22 things that happen to real people in an 23 atmosphere of division, in an atmosphere of 9877 1 vigilante justice and the kind of call to arms 2 that this very distressing bill -- set of bills 3 proposes to accomplish. It proposes ostensibly 4 to save money. In the long run as you look at 5 it, not only does it make us an ugly, ugly, 6 hateful and angry society, but it does cost us 7 money. 8 If you look at it in terms of the 9 health and safety concerns that we cited in the 10 debate, it becomes clear. Would you rather 11 treat one illegal alien child or adult for a 12 contagious disease? Would you rather keep that 13 monitoring system in place or would you let all 14 of us be infected with that virus, both known 15 and unknown? 16 It also imposes the kind of 17 tremendous cost on local governments that 18 Senator Padavan will not admit to but anybody 19 who is a county executive or in charge of a 20 municipality or in charge of a hospital will 21 tell you that they must incur new costs as a 22 result of implementing this legislation. 23 It does exact a huge financial 9878 1 and human toll on our society and brings us 2 further apart in our mission to be one in this 3 society. Do we want to keep costs down? Do we 4 believe in the federal and state statutes as 5 Senator Padavan attempted to lecture me on? 6 Yes, absolutely we do. However, we do not 7 believe that we ought to make doctors who took 8 an oath to provide care, teachers who take an 9 oath to educate, social workers to heal and 10 provide services to those in need, we ought not 11 make them INS agents and we ought not do that to 12 New Yorkers because we stand for much, much 13 better. 14 We should not accentuate the 15 divisions that exist in our society with these 16 kinds of provisions that really speak to maybe a 17 modicum of a problem but certainly not a problem 18 that cannot be overcome by more federal impetus 19 and investment in this regard. 20 We thank -- Mr. President, we 21 thank you and we thank Senator Padavan for 22 answering or attempting to answer some of the 23 questions I've posed today. 9879 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 I'm sorry, Senator Marchi. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: I just wanted to 5 add a postscript. 6 Senator Espada, I certainly don't 7 blame you for the sentiment you have because I 8 think it's a shared sentiment in this chamber, 9 and you see human need and you want to respond, 10 and if we had the magic just by saying aye or 11 nay to any particular legislation, of providing 12 plenty of -- producing all the aid possible no 13 matter where people come from in whatever 14 number, we don't have that power. We live in a 15 real world. Our stride can't be much longer 16 than our legs because we simply will not reach 17 that point if we attempt to do it. 18 We attempt to enlarge on the 19 possible and that's a noble sentiment and we 20 should always keep on doing that, but what 21 happens when the demand is greater than the 22 substance, the public substance that you have to 23 meet it, and you don't reverse this process. 9880 1 The only way to reverse it is to reverse the 2 process of losing employment in this state and 3 reducing the amount of revenue that might 4 otherwise be available to this state. I'm 5 talking about that substance that we have to 6 meet the problems specifically. 7 What we do, Mr. President, is to 8 put more water in the soup. That is the only 9 answer. If there are more people at that table, 10 the only way you can do it is to put more water 11 in the soup. 12 Now, I don't think you're 13 advocating that, Senator Espada, because I know 14 your sentiments are noble and good ones, but it 15 means that either more water in the soup, less 16 money for shelter, for the basic needs that we 17 have simply because it has to be spread out over 18 a greater number. It means perhaps not being 19 able to sustain a fare. It means a lot of 20 things, all going to the dilution of what we can 21 bring to aid human discomfort. 22 It's not easy for Senator Padavan 23 to get up and advocate something which he, in 9881 1 his heart, given the opportunity and the 2 circumstances and the wherewithal would like to 3 meet these needs, but if we depart completely 4 from any sense of realism, if we toss realism to 5 the wind, this is exactly what is going to 6 happen. 7 Do you have an answer? Is there 8 an answer? Do we have that magic here where we 9 can, just by legislation, provide more on the 10 tables of those who hunger? Unless we adopt 11 prudent policy, we do it at the expense of 12 people that have real needs. We cannot respond 13 in measure to people who have real needs - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 15 me, Senator Marchi. 16 SENATOR MARCHI: -- unless we 17 conserve that capability. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 19 me, Senator Marchi. 20 Senator Mendez, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR MENDEZ: I wonder, Mr. 22 President, if Senator Marchi would yield for a 23 couple of questions. 9882 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Marchi, do you yield to Senator Mendez? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Senator is happy to yield. 6 SENATOR MENDEZ: You know, Mr. 7 President, I really -- I agree with Senator 8 Marchi and also with Senator Padavan and many 9 other Senators here that are supporting this 10 bill. I agree to the -- because I know that 11 they are not mean-spirited individuals, but if 12 they could, they would put tons and tons of 13 water into the soup, quoting my esteemed college 14 but, see, the problem isn't -- this is going to 15 be my question. The problem is that all of this 16 is being based on false premises. 17 For example, I have statistics 18 here, Senator Marchi, to the effect that 19 immigrants, including illegal aliens pay $70.3 20 billion per year in taxes while they received 21 only $42.9 billion in services in education and 22 public assistance. 23 Do you -- wouldn't you say, 9883 1 Senator Marchi, that that, in a sense, could be 2 interpreted as these people paying their own 3 way? 4 SENATOR MARCHI: The pluses and 5 minuses, Senator, Barbara Jordan, who has been 6 working assiduously, has said commenting on this 7 fact, that there is absolutely no substantiation 8 to this. The fact is that we are at the bottom 9 of the list of 50 states and tied with Louisiana 10 in terms of credit, in terms of our credit. 40 11 percent of the jobs that were lost during a 12 period of revival these last few years occurred 13 in this state. That is the real world. That is 14 the problem. 15 Our revenues are not adequate to 16 meet many of the problems of people coming in in 17 great numbers and pressing that -- making that 18 -- accentuating that burden. 19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Marchi, 20 if you will yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Marchi, do you yield to another question? 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 9884 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator Marchi, 2 another often made premise is that people think 3 that our country is being inundated with these 4 millions and millions and millions of people 5 coming here. That is not the case. 6 The statistics show that, on a 7 yearly basis 1.1 million immigrants arrive into 8 the United States each year. Of these, some 9 700,000 enter as lawful permanent residents and 10 another 100- to 150,000 enter as legal refugees, 11 an estimated 300,000 undocumented immigrants 12 otherwise who stay over and those 300,000 on a 13 yearly basis. 14 Wouldn't you think, Senator 15 Marchi, that they are distributed not only in 16 New York State, but in Miami, Texas, Phoenix, 17 Arizona, all the other southern states as well, 18 so that we are not entire... in a sense we are 19 exaggerating the numbers of this invasion of 20 immigrants, illegal and otherwise, coming into 21 our country that would tax our resources to no 22 end? Do you have any comment to make to that? 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator, the 9885 1 statistics that I have of illegal immigrants in 2 the state of New York range in the area of 3 75,000 per year, in this state alone. It 4 varies, and, if the federal government which 5 controls immigration and which monitors the 6 coming and going -- you mention the states and 7 you've mentioned them accurately, Florida, 8 Arizona, California, Texas, or whatever states 9 are the states that are the main recipients, but 10 there are 50 states and you named five and those 11 are the five that have the bulk. 12 Now - 13 SENATOR MENDEZ: Now, will the 14 Senator yield for another question? 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Let me -- please 16 permit me to finish answering your question. If 17 the federal government having the responsibility 18 and they, you know, they have the responsi 19 bility, they even have sponsorship which must be 20 resorted to in the event -- to guarantee that 21 there is a modicum of support for people coming 22 in, all of these things, if they did what they 23 were supposed to be doing, you know, the other 9886 1 45 states, forget them. I mean there are five 2 that are obvious for means of propinquity, for 3 means of traveling, for a number of reasons. If 4 they did what they were supposed to do -- and 5 this goes for Democrats or Republicans or 6 whoever is controlling Washington; they don't 7 care. They don't give a darn good -- well, I 8 won't say it all, but they don't care. If they 9 did that, Senator Padavan and myself would rip 10 up all this legislation and toss it to the winds 11 if they accepted their responsibility for a few 12 years. Then they would be in the system where 13 there is contribution, where there is -- where 14 there is compensation for -- for the -- we make 15 our -- we make our contribution, the state does 16 and the federal government does. If they did 17 that, I would get off this bill in a hurry and 18 so would Senator Padavan. We're talking about 19 taking it on a hundred percent on our back, and 20 that's not fair. 21 SENATOR MENDEZ: Will the Senator 22 yield to another question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9887 1 Marchi. 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: I will accept, 3 Senator Marchi, the answer that you gave to me 4 when I mentioned that on a yearly basis there 5 are 300,000 illegal immigrants coming into the 6 United States, and you mentioned that in New 7 York State the figure is 75,000. 8 Well, O.K. I will accept that. 9 Senator Padavan came up with a figure that, in 10 the city of New York, the Health and Hospital 11 Corporations do spend $63 million in providing 12 medical services to these illegal population. 13 Wouldn't you say that, if we are saying that we 14 have 75,000 illegal immigrants, and they spend 15 $63 million in -- in the state, each one of them 16 is spending more than a million dollars a year, 17 wouldn't you say that that's a little bit 18 exaggerated? 19 SENATOR MARCHI: I believe that 20 what you're doing, you're taking a year's -- a 21 year's bottom line, but this is cumulative, so 22 it comes into the hundreds of thousands with 23 just -- since 1990, five years, where are we? 9888 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: We're $63 2 million dollars spent in a year for medical 3 services provided to -- to illegal aliens and, 4 if we agree that, there's 75,000 illegal aliens 5 in the city of New York that figure of the 3 6 million would be accounting for over a million 7 dollars, at least over a million dollars in 8 health services for the illegal aliens. 9 But that's O.K. So that I am 10 going to support, Senator Marchi, with the wrong 11 premise behind this bill, and that is secondly, 12 we all do not want to impose mandates on 13 localities, and you were right, Senator Marchi. 14 The federal government has done a very horrible 15 job in controlling our frontiers. O.K. 16 SENATOR MARCHI: What would - 17 SENATOR MENDEZ: My question is, 18 do we want our hospitals in the city of New York 19 and throughout this state to become legal 20 departments in immigration departments? Do we 21 want that, to impose on these health -- the 22 health care legal system a civilized function? 23 We as a state should demand, and I mean demand, 9889 1 that our federal government takes care of its 2 business. 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Now, you're 4 talking my language, Senator. 5 SENATOR MENDEZ: That's instead 6 of the business of doing what they're supposed 7 to do. 8 SENATOR MARCHI: I agree with 9 you. Now we're in agreement. 10 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, 11 Senator Marchi. Let me assure you, I am 12 convinced first that this legislation is 13 completely founded in -- in hocus-pocus 14 statistics. I believe that this legislation 15 could be beautifully described as the -- the 16 road to hell is paved with good intentions. 17 I mean that because we will be - 18 we would be making our city hospitals little 19 immigration officers performing several 20 functions that our government should have been 21 performing well, and they have failed in doing 22 so. 23 Besides that, the stereotype 9890 1 about illegal immigrants or immigrants, whether 2 they are legal or illegal, are rather unfounded. 3 I mention here that they do pay more taxes than 4 they use in governmental services. So, 5 therefore, on the last -- and lastly, the most 6 horrible thing about this is that it will end up 7 incurring in acts of horrible discrimination 8 against genuine citizens. 9 So I urge my fellow Senators to 10 vote against this legislation. 11 Thank you, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 I didn't intend to debate this bill. There's 17 two other bills that Senator Padavan has that 18 I'd like to comment on and I think, while I 19 wasn't here, but I heard that Senator Espada and 20 Senator Mendez, I think, have raised some, I 21 think, important points, but I heard you say one 22 thing, Senator Marchi, and it has to be refuted 23 because I think this is really so much the lot 9891 1 of these Padavan bills and, frankly, it's a 2 statement that I would not have expected from 3 you, and you know the high regard and respect I 4 have for you. 5 But I came into the chamber and 6 you were debating with Senator Mendez and you 7 said, you know, this state has a debt rating or 8 its bonds are second from the lowest, that we've 9 lost 400,000 jobs and, of course, those are 10 facts. But to, in some way, relate it to either 11 legal immigrants or illegal immigrants, I just 12 think is totally unfair. You know, illegal 13 immigrants, Senator, did not force you or 14 Governor Cuomo or others to do the fiscal 15 gimmicks that -- that were the basis for our 16 having that low rating, and the illegal 17 immigrants didn't cause the loss of 400,000 18 manufacturing jobs. 19 Obviously, they were lost for a 20 lot of reasons, most of which had absolutely 21 nothing to do with anything that New York State 22 did or didn't do, because of world economic 23 factors, and so on. But there seems to be this 9892 1 perception out there that it's the immigrants, 2 whether legal or illegal, that are causing some 3 of the social problems we have, some of the 4 fiscal problems that government has, and it's 5 just wrong. It's totally wrong, and Senator 6 Padavan and I are going to have a chance to 7 debate some of the facts relating at least to 8 legal immigrants. 9 But whatever the merits or 10 demerits of this bill are, and I understand some 11 of the concerns that Senator Padavan has and you 12 have, that the state of New York shouldn't pick 13 up a cost whether it's what I think is 14 relatively minor or whether, as you think, it's 15 a loss, certainly it's something that we should 16 not be burdened with if the federal government 17 doesn't enforce the immigration laws into this 18 country. 19 But we should not blame the 20 immigrants for the fiscal problems and the 21 economic problems that this state has, and I 22 just want to say that, and I know that in the 23 heat of debate, things are said that may not 9893 1 always be particularly relevant or have 2 pertinency as far as the debate goes, but I 3 think we ought to be clear on that because there 4 is -- there is the bashing of -- of immigrants, 5 and as -- as I pointed out in the debate, and 6 certainly nobody knows it better than you 7 because you stood very proudly as a leader of a 8 group that came here, as all of us did, as 9 immigrants. 10 We did come as immigrants. We've 11 created a wonderful country. That doesn't mean 12 to say that there aren't things that sometimes 13 we need to do in relation to immigration, but we 14 certainly shouldn't blame or scapegoat the 15 immigrants for things that they have absolutely 16 no responsibility for. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 18 recognizes Senator Marchi. 19 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 20 the immigrants -- the immigrants are not the 21 villains of the piece. They're victims. When 22 they bring them in, when the ship comes in and 23 they -- they've gouged people -- well, there was 9894 1 one -- one piece in the New York Times today 2 about paying $6,000 per person and coming all 3 the way from behind the Iron Curtain. It's a 4 long, long article today in the New York Times, 5 paying $6,000 so that they come over here, 6 people who probably went through enormous 7 sacrifices. They are victims. 8 The letter I wrote to Ronald 9 Soloway, Director of Government Relations of the 10 United Jewish Appeal: It is my opinion that, if 11 the federal government was performing its 12 functions under the United States Constitution 13 and the immigration laws, these bills would be 14 unnecessary. Until such time as the federal 15 government lives up to its obligations, these 16 bills are necessary to protect the people of 17 this state. 18 The enrollment in school, the 19 demographic plateau that it reached about two 20 years ago, three years ago, was 850,000 21 thousand. It is now a million 1. The 22 difference is not the demographic indigenous 23 increase. It's the people coming in. 9895 1 Now, we have to -- we have to 2 have some sanity in administering this great 3 human problem, and we can't do it all. We can't 4 take on the whole world. I mean your own home, 5 a hundred people come in, you just can't put 6 them into your house. 7 So it's -- they're not -- they're 8 not scapegoats. They are not people that we 9 have to point an accusing finger at. It's the 10 people that exploit them and without -- to be 11 perfectly candid, those who abide by it and 12 don't react to it only to the detriment of these 13 very same people. 14 I -- I still feel that Senator 15 Padavan has undertaken commendable leadership in 16 this effort and I join him in it, and I -- I 17 would hope -- I would hope perhaps we ought to 18 have more dialogue with our own legislative 19 representatives down in Washington, but I have a 20 feeling that probably we wouldn't have too much 21 disagreement with our people down there, but 22 unless they start hearing our voice in Washing 23 ton, I say both parties, any of the politicians 9896 1 down there who are -- who are the movers and 2 shakers and have a role in what is happening now 3 deserve our -- certainly don't deserve our 4 approbation, and they ought to rise to their 5 responsibilities. 6 But this article appeared today, 7 A-12, New Road to West for Illegal Immigrants, 8 and it gives you -- it's a very, very fine 9 article by Raymond Bonner, trafficking gangs in 10 Bulgaria. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 12 me, Senator Marchi. Senator Marchi. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: It ranges from 14 6- to 4,000 - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Marchi. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me 19 just a moment. It shouldn't be necessary for 20 you to have to yell to be heard in this 21 chamber. It just should not be necessary. So I 22 would ask people, if they feel that they have to 23 have a conversation, to take it outside the 9897 1 chamber, please. 2 Thank you for the interruption, 3 Senator Marchi. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, 5 Senator, Mr. President. 6 In fact, they start out: On a 7 recent Saturday morning, some three score 8 residents of this picturesque mountain community 9 -- this is a community in Poland -- mountain 10 community assembled at the ski jump for a trip 11 to the United States, first by bus to Germany, 12 then on Lufthansa across the Atlantic. They 13 include a grandmother, three-year-old grand 14 child, all people that, golly, we ought to be 15 out there, you know, with open arms and greeting 16 them. Each had paid $6,000 -- can you imagine 17 the sacrifice that was made in these communities 18 to do this, or the -- or in China where they 19 would pile them into a vessel and then they were 20 stranded. I don't know whether some of them 21 were drowned or not, but these are -- these are 22 the circumstances that we're living with, and 23 all I think -- I say if there is an accusing 9898 1 finger that I point it's the sins of omission by 2 those who have the responsibility and are 3 refusing to discharge it. 4 This -- I think this legislation 5 makes eminent sense because there is no alter 6 native. I wish there were. The alternative is 7 for people who have the responsibility to do the 8 things that they're supposed to be doing. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Last section. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 18 the results when tabulated. 19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 20 the negative on Calendar 1296 are Senators 21 Abate, Connor, Espada, Leichter, Montgomery, 22 Oppenheimer, Paterson and Santiago, also Senator 23 Markowitz, also Senator Mendez, also Senator 9899 1 Gold. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48, nays 4 11. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Tully. 8 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 9 President. Can we take up Calendar Number 1292, 10 and speaking only for myself, I know that in 11 view of the proximity of the Calendar 1296 and 12 1292, that I intend to vividly recall in 13 explicit detail all of the stirring remarks that 14 were made by the speakers on Calendar 1296 as we 15 go into 1292. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the title of Calendar Number 18 1292. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1292, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number 21 701, an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 22 relation to the ineligibility of lawfully 23 admitted aliens. 9900 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Padavan, explanation of Calendar Number 1292 has 4 been asked for by the Deputy Majority Leader, 5 Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Briefly - 7 SENATOR TULLY: Excuse me, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Tully, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR TULLY: Sorry to 12 interrupt Senator Padavan in the explanation but 13 could we recognize - 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I was about to 15 say, Senator Tully, we had explained this bill 16 before, and then at the request of the Minority 17 it was laid aside, so there may not be a need 18 for another explanation, but if there is a 19 question, I'd be happy to answer it. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Tully. 23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 9901 1 would ask that you recognize Senator Espada for 2 purposes of voting on this particular bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson, do you need an explanation or can we 5 read the last section? 6 SENATOR PATERSON: If we could 7 recognize Senator Espada to permit his vote, I'm 8 going to ask a question on the bill, and I 9 believe Senator Leichter would also speak on it. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 Senator Espada, how do you vote? 15 SENATOR ESPADA: In the 16 negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The roll 18 call is withdrawn. 19 The Chair would recognize Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm asking if 22 Senator Padavan would yield for a question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9902 1 Padavan, do you yield? 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 3 Padavan we were talking earlier because you 4 explained this bill earlier, we even got into 5 the discussion a little bit. We were talking 6 about the Mannino case and what I had asked you 7 and I never got to hear your answer, was that if 8 the Mannino case struck down the current law 9 that actually exists, the statute that we have 10 in this state, since we might agree that your 11 legislation has more teeth in it, why do you 12 think a future court in an analogous decision 13 would not strike down your legislation? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 15 Senator Paterson. I believe that's an excellent 16 question. 17 Actually, the -- to repeat what 18 you said, so I can answer the question properly, 19 the 1977 statute that was struck down by virtue 20 of the Mannino versus Perales case, that statute 21 said that the so-called sponsor's agreement was 22 to be enforced, namely, that someone coming here 23 under that arrangement, there was an obligation 9903 1 on the part of the sponsor to maintain the 2 alien, the immigrant for at least three years. 3 Mannino indicated, in that case, that by virtue 4 of an interpretation of our state Constitution, 5 that that statute was not appropriate, and so in 6 1992 that statute ceased to exist. 7 Now, what we have done here is 8 not put in place something with more teeth but 9 less teeth, because all we're saying here is 10 that, if a person coming into this country under 11 a sponsorship agreement which is mandated by 12 federal law, that that person, that immigrant 13 seeking economic assistance from the sponsor, 14 seek it. If the sponsor cannot provide it, as 15 we say very directly here in the bill, is unable 16 to meet such individual's needs, is no longer in 17 the state, then that person is entitled and can 18 qualify under the Mannino versus Perales 19 decision for the full range of services provided 20 by New York State. 21 So all our proposal here, our 22 proposed bill, is a watered down version of what 23 was law in 1977 up to 1992 and, based on our 9904 1 very careful reading of the decision and an 2 excellent report done by Senator Marchi largely 3 on the Mannino versus Perales case, that our 4 bill would stand muster in relationship to the 5 state Constitution. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 9 Senator Padavan. 10 Before yielding to Senator 11 Leichter, I just have one follow-up question. 12 Senator Padavan, regardless of what pressure we, 13 as the state, try to create for the sponsor, if 14 the sponsor reneges on even what we perceive to 15 be an obligation to pay under Mannino versus 16 Perales, my understandings of that case would be 17 that the immigrant would still get care. 18 In other words, I see what - 19 what you're trying to do and actually, if this 20 were just an action between the state and the 21 sponsor, perhaps it might even be a way to 22 accomplish what you are trying to achieve, but 23 in the dicta from Mannino versus Perales, I get 9905 1 the impression that they were really instructing 2 -- what they were really instructing us is to 3 the need for care of the immigrant who, in this 4 particular case, we would assume would get the 5 care, is that -- is that not your understanding 6 of it? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I'm not 8 sure I quite understand the question, but let me 9 try my best to answer it. 10 First, I again wish to refer to 11 the commission that I discussed earlier in the 12 prior bill. Again, we have a very unequivocal 13 statement from the commission, its members and 14 its chairperson. It says, "Sponsors should be 15 held financially responsible for the immigrants 16 that they bring to this country. In particular, 17 the commission believes that the affidavits of 18 support signed by sponsors should be legally 19 enforceable. The contingencies may change, if 20 the sponsor's financial circumstances change 21 significantly for reasons that occur after the 22 immigrant's entrance." 23 Now, we have an anomaly in New 9906 1 York State, and that is our state Constitution 2 so we can only go so far and what we are trying 3 to do is go that limit in this bill. Basically 4 what it boils down to is that our legislation 5 would give the state flexibility and require 6 that, at a minimum, the sponsoring -- sponsored 7 alien seek economic assistance from his or her 8 sponsor, and that's really all this does, 9 because that's all we can do unless we are 10 forced to amend the state Constitution which, if 11 you read Senator Marchi's dissertation, his 12 theses on the subject, there's a lot of merit to 13 it, but that's another issue and that's 14 something we need not get into today. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Senator 18 Padavan, I'm going to yield to Senator Leichter 19 but, first, on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson, on the bill. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll have to 23 admit that Senator Padavan has exposed me after 9907 1 that fine -- after that fine pronouncement by 2 Senator Leichter, I think Senator Padavan is 3 right, I'm not a deputy, I'm just an acting 4 because I'm not making myself clear, and I got 5 to be a deputy for three hours and now I'm just 6 back to an acting. 7 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 8 it's affirmative action. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Affirmative 10 action. 11 My problem, Senator Padavan, with 12 this bill is we are denying programs to the 13 immigrant. If your bill had been slanted in 14 such a direction where we were actually 15 recouping the amounts from the sponsor, then I 16 think we would have been more in line with the 17 Mannino vs. Perales decision, but my contention 18 is that that decision was made because of the 19 state Constitution and Article XVII, and the 20 whole emphasis on treating those who are in 21 need. That's probably an issue that you and I 22 wouldn't agree on, and neither could we even 23 come to a conclusion on, but that's where I 9908 1 think the bill might be properly amended to 2 focus the force of what you're trying to 3 accomplish in the right direction. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 8 thank you. 9 First of all, let me say to 10 Senator Paterson, you, Senator, very definitely 11 have earned not only the title that we now 12 correctly identify you with, but I think you've 13 earned greater titles like Deputy Majority 14 Leader and, in fact, you've made an excellent 15 point and, Senator, if people on the other side 16 of the aisle don't understand it's not a short 17 coming on your part. It's their refusal to 18 understand a perfectly reasonable proposal that 19 you've made, and I'd like to get into that a 20 little further, but I first want to deal with 21 the underlying thesis of this legislation that 22 Senator Padavan has proposed, and I was prompted 23 to get up and say a couple of words in response 9909 1 to my good friend, Senator Marchi, and let me 2 say nobody, to my mind, more exemplifies the 3 wonders of this country and the contribution 4 that immigrants have made, that when you take a 5 look at somebody such as Senator Marchi, I don't 6 know quite your genealogy and when your parents 7 came here or whether you're second or third 8 generation or whatever, but you stand very 9 proudly for the wonderful accomplishments that 10 immigrant groups have made in this -- in this 11 country. 12 But what underlies these bills is 13 a feeling that immigrants, whether legal or 14 illegal, are unfairly burdening our system and 15 that's why I was prompted to get up because I 16 was -- I was surprised at Senator Marchi's 17 statement which somehow related all of our 18 economic and financial problems to illegal 19 immigrants. 20 This bill deals with legal 21 immigrants and there is this perception that 22 legal immigrants are creating a great burden 23 because they overuse Medicaid, other social 9910 1 services, veteran benefits, and so on. That's 2 not the case. 3 I want to refer you to a very 4 recent study by the Port of New York, and I 5 think all of us understand or should know that 6 the Port of New York does wonderful demographic 7 and economic analyses of the whole region, and I 8 may also say I shared this report with Senator 9 Padavan. He's going to have some opposite 10 viewpoints, but we're going to -- I think we're 11 going to convince him that I'm right. 12 Clearly, clearly, what I'm about 13 to say is indisputable because it comes right 14 from the report. Headline on a section of the 15 report: Most recent immigrants -- I'm reading 16 the wrong section. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yeah, read that 18 section. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will. We're 20 going to read all sections because we want 21 everybody, we want - 22 Read this section. "Immigrants 23 do not overload welfare system." Let me 9911 1 repeat. "Immigrants do not overload welfare 2 system." I'm going to read. It's brief. 3 "Contrary to popular belief immigrants to the 4 region do not burden the welfare system. The 5 difference between the proportion of native and 6 foreign-born receiving public assistance are 7 small. Of the region's foreign-born population, 8 4.5 percent received public assistance in 1990, 9 compared to 4.0 percent to the native-born. In 10 New York City, a slightly higher proportion of 11 native-born obtain public assistance than 12 foreign-born, 6.4 contrasted to 5.7 percent." 13 This is indisputable. These are the facts. 14 This is their study. 15 Now, you may say, well, there 16 shouldn't be one illegal immigrant who unfairly 17 burdens the system or one foreign-born immigrant 18 illegally who burdens the system or, for that 19 matter, there shouldn't be one native-born 20 person who unfairly burdens the system. I think 21 we all agree on that, and we can write laws and 22 achieve administrative procedures in a way to 23 avoid any abuse whatsoever, we ought to do it. 9912 1 But we shouldn't do it in such a way that you're 2 going to end up penalizing people who are 3 entitled to services or entitled to governmental 4 help, and that's the problem that I have with 5 Senator Padavan's bill, because in every way, by 6 seeking to focus on those who may be abusing the 7 system, you do it in such a broad-based manner 8 that he inevitably will end up denying needed 9 services, needed help to people who should be 10 receiving it, and it's in our benefit to help 11 some of these people. Doesn't help this state 12 of New York, as was pointed out in a discussion 13 I had with Senator Abate. 14 Does it help us when somebody is 15 here illegally, and has TB to say, Oh, we're not 16 going to give you services and let them go 17 around and possibly infect other people? Does it 18 help us if we have children who are going to be 19 denied food and shelter and other services and 20 are out on the streets and the problems that 21 that -- that that can create? Obviously not. 22 Let me -- let me point out 23 another section of this report because Senator 9913 1 Padavan is going to refer to it, and that's the 2 one that says, "Most recent immigrants have 3 highest poverty levels," but it then goes on to 4 say that, in New York City, the native-born 5 actually had a higher poverty rate than the 6 foreign-born. 7 This report also shows that the 8 most recent immigrants are less likely to be 9 receiving public assistance, that actually it's 10 the immigrants who have been here a number of 11 years who have a higher rate, but still overall 12 a rate that's comparable to native-born people 13 so let's -- let's get rid of the shibboleth. 14 Let's get rid of the myth that, Oh, my God, 15 we've having such a terrible drain on our 16 financial resources because of legal immigrants 17 or illegal immigrants. It just is not the 18 case. 19 This is the report by the Port of 20 New York. It's available to all the members. 21 Read it, and I think you will see that what 22 we're dealing with is really not a major 23 problem. 9914 1 Let me just say on this bill, the 2 problem with this bill is, you think it runs 3 directly into the Mannino versus Perales 4 prohibition because what this bill says is that 5 you cannot get public service unless you 6 establish that the person who provided the 7 affidavit no longer resides in the United States 8 or has become unable to meet such individual 9 needs. 10 Now, suppose somebody comes and 11 says, "I need meat," and they ask, "Well, have 12 you gone to your sponsor? What did your sponsor 13 say?" 14 He said, "The heck with you. I 15 didn't really intend to cover you. I'm not 16 going to cover you with anything." 17 "Have you taken any action?" 18 "Yes, I'm suing him in court." 19 "Is that person, is he well 20 off?" 21 "Yes. He's got a big estate in 22 Westchester and a house on Fifth Avenue, and 23 co-ops," and so on, but under the words of this 9915 1 bill, since he resides in the United States, and 2 he has the means of helping, the person who 3 applies to the social service agency will be 4 deemed ineligible. 5 Now, there's an easy way to have 6 dealt with this, and I think that's what Senator 7 Paterson is trying to point out. Why not give 8 the state of New York -- I'm not sure that we 9 have to give it; they may have it already -- the 10 right in those instances to sue the sponsor? 11 I agree. The sponsor should be 12 responsible. I came to this country. I know 13 somebody who put up an affidavit for me, and, 14 frankly, I was in this recent period where we 15 weren't going to get paid, I was going to go 16 back to him, but apparently it was good only for 17 three years, and I came some 50 years ago. 18 But - 19 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 20 would the Senator yield? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, 22 certainly. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9916 1 Marchi, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Senator Leichter 3 yields. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter, do you yield? 7 SENATOR LEICHER: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Leichter yields. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: My understanding 11 is there is no recruitment. There is a string 12 of cases where rerecruitment was attempted. 13 There is no recruitment under the federal 14 arrangement. Even if you tried, you know, you 15 don't make out in court. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 17 know you've studied this area, and I know you're 18 an excellent lawyer, and so I accept what you 19 say and if you would yield, I just want to ask 20 you exploring this point, has recoupment been 21 tried on the basis of third-party beneficiary? 22 That's the first part of my question. 23 The second part of my question 9917 1 is, if we now gave -- if we now gave New York 2 State a right of action, and I understand we're 3 dealing after all with a federal law and there's 4 a question whether we can give the right of 5 action, but have you looked into that question? 6 If we had a bill here by Senator Padavan saying 7 New York State -- well, O.K. Let me ask Senator 8 Marchi to yield but, if you want to yield, if 9 you want to answer the question, Senator 10 Padavan. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Go ahead, ask 12 him. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, let me 14 ask you the question first, Senator Padavan. 15 I'm sorry, Senator Marchi. Just on the legal 16 period which you might go after the sponsor and 17 whether there have been any cases where the 18 action has been brought as a third-party 19 beneficiary? Why -- I don't know why New York 20 State would not be a third-party beneficiary. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Well - 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I would 23 suggest that we ask the Department of Social 9918 1 Services to explore that because it would seem 2 to me that we clearly are third-party 3 beneficiaries. 4 Let me now ask the second part of 5 my question, Senator Padavan, if you would 6 yield. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'll answer the 8 first part, if you don't mind, if you would 9 yield. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: You can answer 11 it anyway. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: We have looked 13 into that, and certainly it would be a desirable 14 thing to do. Let the state go out to the 15 sponsor and say you have signed this affidavit, 16 you're not complying with it, now reimburse us 17 for the money we're spending. 18 The problem is we're preempted by 19 federal law. The sponsor's agreement, by 20 federal law, does not allow us to seek that 21 avenue of redress. It would have been beautiful 22 to do that, and I would be in agreement with 23 you, but it's just not possible. All right, 9919 1 Senator? 2 Now, I hope that answers your 3 question. By the way, may I have that report? 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, 5 certainly. And, Senator, the second part of my 6 question, I guess your answer would also take 7 part of the second. Are you saying that we're 8 preempted -- we're preempted also from -- if we 9 give New York State a right of action, you're 10 saying it would be a nullity because federal law 11 governs? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I 14 respectfully then suggest, if that is the case, 15 and I know you've looked into it, that we ought 16 to ask our representatives in Congress to change 17 it because certainly the whole intent and 18 purpose of the affidavit is to see that the 19 immigrant who comes here under the auspices of 20 such a sponsor not become a public charge and, 21 since the person ends up becoming a public 22 charge at our expense, we certainly should have 23 the right to pursue the sponsor. 9920 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 2 may I respond? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Padavan to respond. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: The Shields 6 Commission on Immigration Reform has made such a 7 recommendation to the Congress. It is one of 8 the many recommendations that I would want to 9 seek for them to do just that. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator 11 Padavan, in view of that, I don't know why we're 12 dealing -- I don't know why we have this bill. 13 We're obviously looking at a resolution which I 14 think is a fair resolution, a sensible 15 resolution and not a resolution which I think is 16 going to penalize immigrants who should be 17 entitled to get help. 18 Now, let's be very clear. I just 19 want to make it clear again. It's a very, very, 20 very small percentage of immigrants and of 21 recent immigrants, I think it's 2 percent, far 22 less than native born people who apply for 23 public assistance. 9921 1 Let me just finally say, it was 2 interesting because last night I came home and 3 I've been reading the book, "World of Our 4 Fathers", a wonderful book about the Jewish 5 immigration and life on the Lower East Side and 6 I just happened to be reading the chapter on how 7 the Jews were considered and treated by their 8 fellow New Yorkers and particularly by the press 9 and, of course, they were criticized very 10 severely, and there were some terrible 11 stereotypes and even very respected papers like 12 the Herald, the Herald at that time, and the 13 Tribune wrote about, you know, they're shift 14 less and they don't work and their habits aren't 15 good and they only take baths once a year - 16 Senator Marchi, I'm sure the same things that 17 they said about the Italians when they first 18 came, and the Irish, and so on, and while we are 19 a nation of immigrants and we do really work 20 well together, we unfortunately do have the 21 habit of being unfairly critical of new 22 immigrant groups. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 9922 1 me, Senator Leichter. Senator Marchi why do you 2 rise? 3 SENATOR MARCHI: I just want to 4 say, not Northern Italians. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I don't 6 think that anybody should have said anything bad 7 about any Italian, north or south, because your 8 contributions to this country have been wonder 9 ful as have been all of the groups that have 10 come here. 11 My point is that while certainly 12 nobody is saying anything derogatory about the 13 new immigrant groups, and they tend to come 14 mainly from South America and Asia and they are 15 going to make their contribution and many are 16 already, as the Italians have, as the Jewish 17 people from Eastern Europe have made and all the 18 other groups who have come here, but my point is 19 there's that same sort of sense of, well, these 20 people, they're creating problems; they're a 21 burden, and so on, and I think when you look at 22 the facts fairly, when you read this report, you 23 will see that is not the case, and I submit to 9923 1 you this package of bills that Senator Padavan 2 has put forward which some people have called 3 New York State's version of Proposition 187 in 4 California, really is not needed. It's not 5 appropriate, and I think in some way it demeans 6 us. I think it demeans us, not that we're not 7 justified in trying to protect New York State 8 from unjust burdens, but it demeans us to the 9 extent that we are probably taking away rights 10 from people who are here legally or people who 11 may be here illegally, but require some of basic 12 humanitarian aid, and I think that goes contrary 13 to the tradition, not only of New York but of 14 this country that has made us great. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Padavan. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Earlier Senator 19 Leichter made reference to a very good report 20 recently published, and he and I talked about 21 this earlier, and when I returned his report to 22 him, I put a paper clip and underlined the 23 section which he did not read. He started to, 9924 1 but then he stopped himself, and what this 2 section says: Most recent immigrants have 3 highest poverty levels. The most recent 4 immigrants posted extremely high poverty rates. 5 Immigrants arriving between 1987 and 1990 6 registered a rate of 26 percent higher than the 7 region's minority population. 8 This, by the way, covers New 9 Jersey and the entire region. That statement 10 tracks very closely the data we recently 11 published in our report, the second report, so 12 when we say that over the past eight years, that 13 the immigrant population coming into this city 14 has had a significant economic burden on our 15 social services system, we are saying exactly 16 the same thing as this report. I find no 17 contradiction. 18 Let me finish, Senator, I'll be 19 glad to answer. 20 Senator Leichter was not in the 21 room when we were debating the prior bill when I 22 shared with the members a report from the New 23 York State Department of Social Services, who 9925 1 stated for the calendar year '92, illegal 2 aliens, just illegal aliens, accounted for 3 approximately $30 million in health care costs 4 in New York State, illegal aliens in 1992 for 5 that calendar year. That is not insignificant. 6 So I have to say to Senator 7 Leichter, that all of the data that's been 8 available, given the report he's talking about, 9 both macro data in terms of numbers, we have by 10 INS reports conservatively 510,000 of the half a 11 million illegal immigrants in New York State, 80 12 percent of them in New York City, the balance of 13 them in counties around New York City largely. 14 35 percent of the population of New York City is 15 foreign born, many of them citizens, many of 16 them immigrants, and certainly some, as I just 17 stated, significant percentage are here 18 illegally. 19 So we're talking about extensive 20 costs, social service costs, education costs, 21 criminal justice costs, and we look at those 22 numbers both from their total magnitude and as a 23 percentage of the population. If we have half a 9926 1 million, roughly, people who are here illegally 2 out of a city of 7 million, we're talking about 3 a significant portion of our population, and I 4 don't think we can walk away from it. 5 This particular bill is not a 6 panacea, nor are any of the bills, and as our 7 dialogue earlier indicated, if our state 8 Constitution permitted, if federal law 9 permitted, there might be better ways of 10 addressing the issue -- not might, there would 11 be better ways of addressing the issue of the 12 sponsor's affidavit, but those options do not 13 exist, and so we are taking this course and, as 14 I said earlier in my dialogue with Senator 15 Paterson, we're simply attempting to have the 16 sponsor seek the economic support of his -- the 17 sponsor -- the person's sponsor, to seek the 18 economic support of the sponsor in line with the 19 affidavit. If that does not become possible, 20 such a thing just doesn't come to fruition, then 21 obviously Mannino vs. Perales kicks in, our 22 state Constitution prevails, and that person 23 receives the full benefits. 9927 1 But let's not attempt to suggest 2 that the overall magnitude of the problem, 3 particularly in the area of social services, if 4 we listen to the welfare inspector general and 5 the provost, if we look at the reports from the 6 state and city Departments of Social Services, 7 if we look at the data provided by the census 8 pages, if we look at the back of our report you 9 will see the references, pages of credible 10 information, we have a significant economic 11 problem and, Senator, let me say parenthetically 12 I'm the grandson of Italian immigrants also from 13 Northern Italy, so Senator Marchi and I share a 14 common heritage. You may not view us both in 15 the same light, but we do. 16 In any event, I am sensitive to 17 their contribution, but I think, Senator, 18 something that has not been said here bears 19 being said. In the city of New York with a 20 large immigrant population, most of whom are 21 here legally, they are suffering. When you talk 22 about our classrooms bursting at the seams, as 23 Senator Marchi pointed out, that 150,000 9928 1 immigrant children coming in over the past three 2 or four years, with social service systems being 3 strained, with health care systems being 4 strained, that lawful immigrant population 5 coming here, as my grandparents did, legally, 6 seeking the benefits that this city, state and 7 nation have to offer, they are suffering because 8 those resources are being strained to the limit, 9 and they should not be. 10 We have to draw the line 11 somewhere, and I think what we're doing is 12 drawing the line in a very reasonable way. 13 We're saying, if you're here illegally, you're 14 here under certain arrangements, those things 15 should be attended to in a proper manner. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr. 19 President, Senator Padavan, when I referred to 20 Senator Marchi as a really proud example of how 21 wonderful the Italian immigrant group have done, 22 I mentioned him because I was debating him, but 23 you're certainly a fine example, and there are 9929 1 many others. In fact, all of us here, since 2 there are no native born -- native born - 3 native born but no native Americans, are all 4 immigrants and by virtue of being here, we've 5 certainly achieved something, and that's exactly 6 my point, how valuable immigration is and how 7 immigrants, once they adjust to this country and 8 accommodate and are able to make the 9 contribution that has made this the greatest 10 country in the world. 11 And Senator, the figures that you 12 were citing actually prove my point, the point 13 that I just made. First of all, you have made a 14 basic mistake in equating poverty levels with 15 social service. That's absolutely not the 16 case. It's obviously true. I mean it's a 17 truism throughout our history that immigrants 18 who come here tend to have a higher poverty 19 rate. I know my family came here, we had $10. 20 Your grandfather, I'm sure, didn't have much 21 more than that. You were poor when you came 22 here, but that didn't mean these people were on 23 social service. 9930 1 The social service aspect is the 2 figure that I gave you, lower percentage, lower 3 percentage for recent immigrants who are here 4 legally than for native born and beyond that, 5 and that's the point I was making how we're 6 eventually able, our immigrant group. To make 7 such a contribution, because that section that 8 you referred to goes on to say as the time of 9 arrival moves backward, the poverty rate 10 steadily declines until it reaches 7.4 percent 11 for arrivals between 1950 and 1959. For 12 immigrants who arrived before 1950, the poverty 13 rate takes a leap upwards, because I assume 14 they're older. 15 Well, I think, if they came here 16 before 1950, they're probably grandparents and 17 that's the reason and, as we know, the elderly 18 in this society often are poor. But the overall 19 point is that there is no great problem in this 20 state where our social service resources are 21 being drained by immigrants. That's the point. 22 With this bill, the problem is, 23 and I -- as I said, I have no problem with a 9931 1 bill where we would really focus and find an 2 effective means to go after the sponsor, but I 3 think this bill doesn't do it. I suspect that 4 it is illegal under the reasoning that the court 5 applied, is because we're imposing a pre 6 condition to somebody receiving social services 7 from the state when the state Constitution says 8 that we're obligated to help all needy persons 9 who are in this state. 10 So I think, both on the basis of 11 the underlying theory of this bill and also on 12 the wording of this bill, I think it's a 13 mistake. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results when tabulated. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9932 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1292 are 2 Senators Abate, Connor, Espada, Gold, Kruger, 3 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato, 4 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago, Smith, Solomon, 5 Waldon and Senator Leichter. Ayes 43, nays 16. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Chair recognizes Senator Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President. 11 I was out of the chamber when 12 Calendar 1296 was before the house. I 13 respectfully request unanimous consent to be 14 recorded in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon 17 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 18 Number 1296. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Smith, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 9933 1 President. 2 I, too, would request unanimous 3 consent to be recorded in the negative on 4 Calendar Number 1296. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith 7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 8 Number 1296. 9 Senator Volker. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: No, just 11 reading. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 13 recognizes Senator Tully. 14 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 15 President. At the request of the Majority 16 Leader, would you please announce an immediate 17 meeting of the Republican Conference in Room 332 18 and have the Senate stand at ease. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 20 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 21 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference 22 Room, Room 332, immediate meeting of the 23 Majority Conference in the Majority Conference 9934 1 Room, Room 332. 2 The Senate will stand at ease. 3 (Whereupon at 4:12 p.m., the 4 Senate stood at ease. ) 5 ...At 4:4 p.m.... 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Senate will come to order for an announcement. 8 Chair recognizes Senator Mendez. 9 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, 10 there will be an immediate conference of the 11 Minority in the Minority Conference Room, Room 12 314. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 14 will be an immediate conference of the Minority 15 in the Minority Conference Room, Room 314. 16 Immediate meeting of the Minority 17 Conference in the Minority Conference Room, 18 314. 19 Senate will stand at ease. 20 (Whereupon, at 4:14 p.m., the 21 Senate stood at ease until 5:00 p.m.. ) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 23 will come to order. 9935 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 3 recognizes Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: 4968, by Senator 5 Velella. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the title of Calendar Number 124. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 9 Calendar Number 1284, by Member of the Assembly 10 Dinowitz, Assembly Print 5975, an act to amend 11 the Mental Hygiene Law, in relation to service 12 as president of boards of visitors. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Velella, an explanation has been asked for of 17 Calendar Number 1284, by Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: This bill would 19 require that -- on boards of visitors, that 20 after two years of service, the presidency would 21 shift to another person to encourage the 22 presidency of a board to move around amongst the 23 members of the board. 9936 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 4 President. Senator Smith had a question on 5 this. I believe she heard the explanation. If 6 not, we'll just ask Senator Velella to go over 7 that real quickly again. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Do you want me 9 to repeat that, Senator? 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 11 SENATOR SMITH: I have a few 12 questions. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Velella, do you yield to Senator Smith for some 15 questions? 16 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR SMITH: Senator Velella, 20 would you happen to know how the boards of 21 visitors are appointed? 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. I believe 23 the Governor appoints them and we confirm them. 9937 1 Is that correct? 2 SENATOR SMITH: That's correct. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you. 4 SENATOR SMITH: Are you also 5 aware that the majority of the boards are not at 6 full capacity? 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator, 8 I'm not here to apologize for the negligence of 9 Governor Cuomo; but, certainly, I do realize 10 that they are not at full capacity, yes. 11 SENATOR SMITH: Are you also 12 aware that most of the boards that require five 13 to nine members, that they are down in some 14 cases down to two and three members? 15 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Senator, 16 and I also realize the fact that we now have a 17 competent governor who will put them up to their 18 full complement and allow them to function the 19 way the law intended them to do. 20 SENATOR SMITH: Are you 21 anticipating that we will have any nominees for 22 these boards in the near future? 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Oh, yes, 9938 1 Senator, absolutely. Do you mean me, 2 personally? Do you mean me, personally, 3 Senator? 4 SENATOR SMITH: I said, are you 5 anticipating -- you, personally. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Me, 7 personally? I don't have any candidates in mind 8 myself, personally, no, but I am sure that 9 amongst this body and amongst the people of this 10 state, amongst the patient advocates, and 11 amongst all the people in the mental hygiene 12 field, we will find competent candidates that 13 the Governor can fulfill his constitutional 14 responsibility and appoint people to the boards, 15 yes. 16 SENATOR SMITH: I, too, agree 17 with you, Senator Velella. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you. 19 SENATOR SMITH: I'm sure that we 20 will in the near future. 21 However, at this point in time - 22 on the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9939 1 Smith on the bill. 2 SENATOR SMITH: The majority of 3 the boards do not even have enough members to 4 constitute a quorum and find it extremely 5 difficult to be able to rotate officers, and I 6 feel that this bill will be an additional burden 7 on the boards of visitors who do not have a full 8 complement and, often, are not even able to have 9 elections; and, therefore, I would urge my 10 colleagues to vote against this bill until the 11 time that these boards reach their full 12 complement, and then I would fully support the 13 bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results when tabulated. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9940 1 the negative on Calendar 1284 are Senators 2 Connor, Hoffmann, Kruger, Markowitz, Montgomery, 3 Paterson, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 52. Nays 8. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 8 housekeeping at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, we 10 have a couple of motions. 11 Chair recognizes Senator Seward. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 13 President. I wish to call up my bill, Print 14 Number 4568, recalled from the Assembly which is 15 now at the desk. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the title. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1279, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4568, an 20 act to amend the Civil Service Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Seward. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 9941 1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 2 bill was passed. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 5 (The Secretary called the roll on 6 reconsideration.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is before the house. 10 Senator Seward. 11 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, 12 may I now have the third reading of this bill? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 14 Secretary will read the title. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1279, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4568, an 17 act to amend the Civil Service Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 19 a home rule message at the desk. 20 Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 9942 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Seward. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: I would just 11 like the record to note that on Calendar Number 12 1299, which passed on a slow roll call earlier 13 today, I was unavoidably out of the chamber on 14 legislative business. I would like the record 15 to indicate that had I been in the chamber, I 16 would have voted yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Seward, the record will reflect that had you 19 been present when the roll call on Calendar 20 Number 1299 was called that you would have voted 21 in the affirmative. 22 Senator Farley. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 9943 1 President. On page 20 -- this is on behalf of 2 Senator Goodman. On page 20, I offer the 3 following amendments to Calendar 849, Senate 4 Print 1610, and I ask that that bill retain its 5 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 7 Amendments to Calendar 849 are received and 8 adopted. The bill will retain its place on the 9 Third Reading Calendar. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 will you call up Calendar 1317, by Senator 13 Velella. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the title of Calendar Number 1317. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 35, 17 Calendar Number 1317, by Senator Velella, Senate 18 Print 5310, an act to amend the Workers' 19 Compensation Law. 20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1317 23 has been asked for by Senator Stachowski. 9944 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, this 2 bill will allow the State Insurance Fund and the 3 aggregate trust fund to take bonds and securi 4 ties that they hold and allow a dealer or fund 5 manager to invest them and use them to increase 6 the income of the fund. It's anticipated that 7 by doing this, as other agencies have done, that 8 the fund will increase by $1 million its 9 income. It will receive a steady income and the 10 fund manager will be able to invest those funds. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the 12 Senator yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Velella, do you yield? 15 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, so 19 the reason that the State Insurance Fund asked 20 for this bill was to increase the amount of 21 money that the fund would have -- generate? 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Their 23 explanation to me was, it allows them the 9945 1 opportunity to allow someone to take their 2 securities, invest those securities for them and 3 guarantee them an income. It's done for other 4 agencies, as I understand it, and the bonds, of 5 course, and the securities that are used would 6 be fully collateralized. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the 8 Senator yield for another question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 10 continue to yield, Senator Velella? 11 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 continues to yield. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: The question 15 that came to us is that if -- would this bill 16 also allow the fund to lend its assets to the 17 state; and, if so, would we find ourselves in a 18 position where the state is borrowing funds from 19 the State Insurance Fund again to possibly 20 balance the budget instead of using that money 21 to pay Workmen's Compensation claims, which is 22 what happened in the past? 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. Senator, 9946 1 I hope those days are behind us. I think that 2 was a mistake on the part of all of us to do 3 that; and this bill, as I understand it and as I 4 read it, would require anyone who is taking 5 those securities for investment purposes to pay 6 a fee to the State Insurance Fund and guarantee 7 the income to it. 8 The question of whether or not 9 the amount of a negotiated fee might be too high 10 or too low would be something, I guess, that 11 would be subject to the prudent man or the 12 reasonable man test in a person who is a 13 fiduciary being responsible for what they do 14 with the funds entrusted to them, but I do not 15 believe under any stretch of the imagination 16 that this would allow us to raid the funds 17 again. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 19 President, if the Senator would yield for one 20 last question? 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 continues to yield. 9947 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: The other 2 question we had was that, do we know if the 3 other house is planning on passing this bill? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator. I 5 believe that it is a bill that they are 6 supporting, but I am not 100 percent sure. I 7 couldn't make a representation to you that they 8 are. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you 10 very much. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 19 the results when tabulated. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Stavisky. 9948 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 2 without objection, I should like to be recorded 3 in the negative on Calendar 1292 and 1296. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection and hearing no objections, Senator 6 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on 7 Calendar Number 1292 and Calendar Number 1296. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 would you call up Calendar Number 1294, Senate 11 2829. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the title of Calendar Number 1294. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On page 15 33, Calendar Number 1294, by Senator Skelos, 16 Senate Print 2829, an act to amend the General 17 Obligations Law, in relation to compensation for 18 injury or damage. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos, an explanation has been asked for. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 this bill amends the General Obligations Law to 23 provide that an injured police officer - 9949 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 2 President. I'm sorry, Senator. 3 Senator, would it be permissible 4 to lay this aside just for a moment for Senator 5 Leichter? He is the one that wants to ask you a 6 question on it. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Lay the 8 bill aside temporarily. 9 Would you call up Senator 10 Seward's bill, Calendar Number 1305, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay 12 Calendar Number 1294 aside. 13 Secretary will read the title to 14 Calendar Number 1305. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1305, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4513A, an 17 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 18 Fire Prevention and Building Code standards. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9950 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Is Senator 8 Leichter in the chambers? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Could we 11 go to the - 12 Mr. President. Will you please 13 call up Senator Hannon's bill, Calendar Number 14 1285. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the title of Calendar Number 1285. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1285, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5026A, an 19 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 20 enacting the engineers' and architects' good 21 Samaritan act. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9951 1 Hannon, an explanation has been called for by 2 Senator Paterson on Calendar Number 1205 - 3 Calendar Number 1285, excuse me. 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 5 President. This proposal would put into statute 6 an engineers' and architects' good Samaritan 7 act. The idea would be to exempt engineers and 8 architects from liability when they've rendered 9 their services voluntarily during or right after 10 catastrophic natural events. It would be 11 professional engineers or architects who are 12 already obligated by their codes to do something 13 like this but have been holding back because of 14 the liability problems. 15 So it's only when such services 16 are rendered voluntarily would they get this 17 immunity from ordinary liability. There still 18 would be, in effect, provisions for liability in 19 the event that there would be any type of gross 20 negligence, wanton or skillful or intentional 21 misconduct, and there would be a limitation of 22 90 days to the question of when the catastrophe 23 occurred. 9952 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect January 1. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 Senator Stavisky, why do you 13 rise? 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 15 I neglected to ask for unanimous approval to be 16 recorded in the negative on Calendar 993. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stavisky, Calendar Number 993 has not passed as 19 of this moment. 20 Senator Solomon, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR SOLOMON: Mr. President, 23 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 9953 1 the negative on Calendar 1284. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection and hearing no objection, Senator 4 Solomon will be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number 1284. 6 Senator Abate. 7 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, I also ask 8 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 9 on Calendar Number 1284. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection and hearing no objection, Senator 12 Abate will be recorded in the negative on 13 Calendar Number 1284. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 at this time, could we take up Supplemental 17 Calendar Number 1, noncontroversial. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the noncontroversial calendar, the 20 calendar being Senate Supplemental Calendar 21 Number 1 for Wednesday, June 14, 1995. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1295, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 1059, an 9954 1 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey 2 its interest in certain real property acquired 3 by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of 4 Queens. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 no home rule message at the desk. The bill will 7 be laid aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1322, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2458A. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside at the request of the sponsor. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1323, by Senator Dollinger, Senate Print 2949A, 15 an act validating the conversion of Roselawn 16 Refuse and Garbage District into the town of 17 Brighton, Monroe County. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 9955 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 whose bill was that? 8 (Laughter.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's not 10 out of the house quite yet, Senator Skelos. 11 (Laughter.) 12 SENATOR SKELOS: No, no. No 13 questions. No questions. No explanation 14 needed. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will continue to call the noncontroversial 17 calendar. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1324, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3006A, an 20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 21 relation to the presence of counsel. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9956 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1325, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3236, an 4 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 5 relation to forfeiture of benefits. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1326, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 3493A, an 18 act to amend the Military Law, in relation to 19 deputy commander of the New York Army National 20 Guard. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9957 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1327, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3631A. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1328, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 3839A, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law - 16 General Business Law, in relation to false price 17 comparisons. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1329, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3905A, an 22 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 23 Act and Chapter 402 of the Laws of 1994. 9958 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1330, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4253, an 5 act to amend the Public Health Law and the 6 Education Law, in relation to professional 7 misconduct. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1331, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 4329A, an 20 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 21 disqualification of life insurance 22 beneficiaries. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9959 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1332, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4529A, an 12 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 13 in relation to the harvest and shipment of 14 shellfish. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 18 act shall take effect on the first day of 19 September. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9960 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1333, by Senator Volker. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815, an 10 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 11 the definition of small groups. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1335, by Senator Jones, Senate Print 4918, an 17 act to reclassify Dorothy L. Barnatones as a 18 Tier I member of the New York State and local 19 employees retirement system. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 9961 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1336, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4924, an 9 act authorizing the County of Monroe to 10 participate in a cooperative corporation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 12 a home rule message at the desk. 13 Secretary will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9962 1 1337, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4932A, an 2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 3 the restoration and display of New York State's 4 military battle flags. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1338, by Senator Connor, Senate Print 5001, an 9 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey 10 its interest in certain real property acquired 11 by in rem tax foreclosure in the borough of 12 Brooklyn. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 no home rule message at the desk. The bill will 15 be laid aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1339, by Senator Nanula, Senate Print 1512, an 18 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation 19 to the sale of bonds. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 21 home rule message at the desk. 22 Secretary will read the last 23 section. 9963 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1340, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5085, an act 11 in relation to authorizing the village of Penn 12 Yan, Yates County, to issue serial bonds. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a home rule message at the desk. 15 Secretary will read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9964 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese 3 moves to discharge from the Committee on 4 Judiciary Assembly Bill Number 4958 and 5 substitute it for the identical Calendar Number 6 1341. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 9 the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1342, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 5292, an act 17 to amend the Limited Liability Company Law and 18 the Partnership Law, in relation to certain 19 professional services. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 23 act shall take effect 30 days after it shall 9965 1 have become law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1343, by Senator Maltese. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is high. Lay the bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1344, by Senator Maltese. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is high. Lay the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1345, by Senator Levy. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is high. Lay the bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1346, by Senator Leibell. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is high. Lay the bill aside. 9966 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1347, by the Senate Committee on Rules. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is high. Lay the bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1348, by Senator Marchi. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is high. Lay the bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo 10 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 11 Assembly Bill Number 3851A and substitute it for 12 the identical Calendar Number 1349. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 14 Substitution is ordered. 15 Secretary will read the title. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1349, by Member of the Assembly Polonetsky, 18 Assembly Print 3851A, an act to amend the 19 Agriculture and Markets Law, in relation to the 20 enforcement of certain kosher food laws. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9967 1 act shall take effect on the first day of 2 November. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1350, by Senator Johnson. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is high. Lay the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1351, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5377, an 15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 16 relation to the powers of the United States Park 17 Police. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 9968 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 3 the results when tabulated. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59, nays 1. 5 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1352, by Senator Holland. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is high. Lay the bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman 11 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 12 Assembly Bill Number 8137 and substitute it for 13 the identical Calendar Number 1353. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 15 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 16 the title. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1353, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Print 8137, an act to amend the Real 20 Property Tax Law, in relation to the 21 determination of adjusted base proportions. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9969 1 is there a message at the desk? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 3 a message of necessity at the desk, Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 motion is to accept the message of necessity. 8 All in favor, signify by saying 9 aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed, nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message is accepted. 14 Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 9970 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1354, by Senator Maziarz. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is high. Lay the bill aside. 5 Senator Skelos, that completes 6 the noncontroversial reading of Supplemental 7 Calendar Number 1. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 if we could return to the regular calendar, 10 number 1294, I believe Senator Leichter has some 11 questions to ask of me. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the title of Calendar Number 1294, by 14 Senator Skelos. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1294, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2829, an 17 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in 18 relation to compensation for injury or damage. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 22 I first thank Senator Skelos for holding the 23 bill until I came back into the chamber, and I 9971 1 did want to ask him a couple of questions, if 2 you would yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos, do you yield? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I do. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: I am having 9 some problem in understanding the scope of this 10 bill, and I talked to some lobbyists for the 11 bill, and they may have confused me even more. 12 As I understand it now, in the 13 state of New York, police officers and other 14 uniform services, and so on, and in most 15 localities, I assume, all employees are covered 16 by Workmen's Compensation. Is that correct? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Correct. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, you are 19 not saying by this bill that irrespective of the 20 Workmen's Compensation Laws that they can also 21 sue the municipalities, are you? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: What we're 23 saying in this legislation is, like any other 9972 1 municipal worker, they have the right to sue 2 somebody, for example, negligence -- policemen 3 and firemen -- which they do have the right 4 now. Policemen and firemen are going to have 5 that same right. That's all this bill does. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Now, if you 7 would be so good as to continue to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 continues to yield. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: So in those 15 instances where they are covered by Workmen's 16 Compensation, you are not giving them any 17 additional rights? 18 SENATOR SKELOS: No, we are not. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand 20 the city of New York is a somewhat special 21 situation, because the city of New York has, in 22 some respects, opted out of Workmen's 23 Compensation. Is that correct? 9973 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe they 2 are self-insured, and they made that decision. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. There 4 was a decision by the Court of Appeals in the 5 Cooper case which has been interpreted by 6 various other courts, and as I understood it 7 from the representatives of the police and the 8 firemen is that they are now in a situation 9 where they can get neither Workmen's 10 Compensation nor have the right to sue? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: They are 12 correct. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. And, 14 all that your bill seeks to do is, in a sense, 15 restore the status quo before Cooper and give 16 them the rights that they had before, either 17 under Workers' Compensation or if the City 18 prefers to proceed by being self-insured or do 19 it in ways other than Workers' Compensation that 20 they would have the right to sue. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Nobody explains 22 a bill better than you, Senator Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I thank you. 9974 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Ask the members 13 if their bills are called that they be in the 14 chambers so we can debate the bill. 15 Mr. President, at this time, will 16 you call up Senator Saland's bill, Calendar 17 Number 937. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title of Calendar Number 937. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4009A, an 22 act to amend the Tax Law and others, in relation 23 to enacting the Omnibus Mandate Relief Act. 9975 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Saland, an explanation has been asked for by 6 Senator Paterson on Calendar Number 937. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 Mr. President, this is, as the 10 name implies, an omnibus mandate relief bill. 11 It's intended to, in effect, remove the burden 12 of unfunded mandates currently imposed upon so 13 many of our local and county governments. The 14 intention here is not only to remove those 15 unfunded mandates but to save somewhere in the 16 area of $1.5 billion which are currently being 17 spent by those school districts -- by those 18 local municipalities which will translate to, we 19 believe, tax relief to those very same 20 localities. 21 There are a number of components 22 to this particular bill. There are six major 23 components. These components would be to reduce 9976 1 local fiscal burdens, permit localities greater 2 administrative flexibility, reduce the burden of 3 state regulations, eliminate unnecessary state 4 reporting and approval requirements, reform 5 municipal liability, and encourage local 6 consolidation and cooperation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 if Senator Saland would yield for about 250 11 questions. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Saland, do you yield? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Only if he 15 promises to let me catch my breath on occasion. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 19 Senator. 20 Obviously, this is a package of 21 legislation that certainly gives an opportunity 22 for local governments and school districts and 23 the like to recoup, and I want to go through 9977 1 some of the sections, Senator, and just get a 2 reflection from you as to what caused you to do 3 this because there, frankly, are a few things 4 that I find a little disturbing. 5 For instance, in Section 4, I see 6 that you exempt volunteer fire fighters from the 7 OSHA requirements with respect to the use of the 8 gear and safety procedures. It would seem to me 9 that those volunteers who give of their own time 10 to be volunteer fire fighters should be properly 11 prepared and properly equipped to do the job, 12 and it could be a serious health and safety 13 hazard for them to actually forfeit that 14 opportunity. 15 So I wanted to know, to commence 16 the discussion, why you decided to include 17 this. 18 SENATOR SALAND: That provision, 19 in effect, reflects a bill that has been passed, 20 I believe, as introduced by Senator Cook in 21 prior sessions, passed by this house and, I 22 believe, passed overwhelmingly, and what it does 23 is it represents, I believe, the overwhelming 9978 1 sentiment of volunteer fire companies and fire 2 fighters who feel that the requirements as 3 imposed upon them by the OSHA regulations have 4 been burdensome, at times bordering on the 5 picayune, and many of them feel that, somehow or 6 other, they have become the more singular 7 targets for the zealousness of the OSHA people. 8 I would think that you would find 9 considerable support coming from the volunteer 10 fire fighters for the removal of this particular 11 provision. These are people who live with risk, 12 are very good at dealing with risk, and they 13 would be among the last people in the world not 14 to proceed carefully and make sure that their 15 gear and all their other equipment wasn't ready 16 to meet the types of crises that they have to 17 deal with. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, thank 21 you for enlightening me, but I still don't 22 understand, even with their consent, how are 23 they supposed to be trained? 9979 1 These are safety procedures. 2 Obviously, we're talking about prospective 3 situations that incur a lot of life-threatening 4 and dangerous hazards, and what I'm saying is, 5 what is the standard that will -- the volunteers 6 would conform -- with which they would conform? 7 Because, as you know, in these kind of 8 situations, just civilians or just individuals 9 who might care may have all good intentions but 10 may actually take a dangerous situation and make 11 it worse. 12 We honored today some fire 13 fighters, police and EMS workers from New York 14 who went to Oklahoma City. They, of course, 15 were highly-trained, but you could drop them in 16 the middle of Oklahoma City, where they don't 17 even know where they are, and they can do the 18 outstanding job that they demonstrated by the 19 results of their effort because of their train 20 ing. Now, they are, of course, professionals, 21 and I use it only analogous to the point that 22 the training relates directly to how much care 23 they can give and how much support they can 9980 1 offer, because of the fact that normally they 2 are not fire fighters. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson, would you suffer an interruption? 5 Senator Cook, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, at 7 some point, if I might just speak to this 8 particular point, if the two Senators would 9 permit me? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson, would you like Senator Cook to speak 12 to this particular point at this time? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm always 14 delighted to have Senator Cook's participation. 15 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 16 only because I had been involved in this issue 17 for some time, and this happens to be very high 18 -- in fact, it may well be the top issue for 19 the volunteer firemen to get this OSHA standard 20 released. 21 I'll indicate that the way it 22 happened, incidentally, was that some years ago 23 the Labor Commissioner of the state simply 9981 1 arbitrarily, out of the blue, redefined 2 volunteer fire personnel as being public 3 employees. They never previously had been 4 covered by OSHA until this decision by the 5 Commissioner to include them. 6 Volunteer fire personnel have to 7 go through their own training procedures. There 8 are courses that are required before they can 9 actually participate in fighting fires. In 10 fact, their own liability -- the companies' own 11 liability policies usually have additional 12 requirements that they have to do. 13 The problem they have with the 14 OSHA standards is multiple, one being it covers 15 a lot of expensive equipment. Small volunteer 16 companies find it very expensive to replace 17 equipment every two or three years just because 18 the standard changes. In fact, it may be 19 equipment that they have only used one or two 20 times because they don't have all that many fire 21 calls, and yet they have to keep changing the 22 equipment. They have to maintain all these 23 files. 9982 1 They don't have any clerical 2 personnel to keep the files, and yet people come 3 in and inspect the files. 4 I have one fire company that was 5 fined because they didn't have medical files on 6 their people, and it wasn't that they hadn't 7 done -- had the physical exams, but it was that 8 the doctor had the files in his office and not 9 in the fire company office where they decided 10 they were going to be. 11 So it's simply that volunteers, 12 who don't have full-time personnel to do all of 13 the things that a regular municipal employer 14 would be doing as a matter of course, find that 15 having to comply with OSHA regulations really is 16 virtually impossible and is extremely expensive. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 20 much, Senator Cook. 21 I would just add to what I said 22 by saying it's actually the situations that we 23 don't forecast and the extraordinary circum 9983 1 stances in which I think we would most need the 2 training, but I do understand what Senator Cook 3 is saying, and I'm glad that he brought it up. 4 If Senator Saland would continue 5 to yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Saland, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 continues to yield. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 13 Saland, in Section 5, I believe, of the omnibus 14 bill, the state, as you know, has a duty to 15 protect its workers and its citizens; and there 16 seems to be through a new interpretation of what 17 an in-plant procedure would actually be, in a 18 sense, an opportunity for what we feel would be 19 greater exposure to workers and visitors to 20 asbestos because of a relaxation or reduction in 21 the standard of asbestos removal; and so, at 22 this point, particularly where we in New York 23 City suffered a tremendous penalty of having the 9984 1 school year actually delayed three weeks because 2 of those buildings, where asbestos levels were 3 at a point that it seemed to be damaging to 4 children, it just raised my eyebrow when I saw 5 that in this particular bill. 6 I was wondering if you would 7 explain to us why you arrived at a decision to 8 create that reduction? 9 SENATOR SALAND: I don't think - 10 although I can't speak with any particular 11 knowledge about what occurred in the City, I 12 believe that what occurred in the City, these 13 asbestos conditions were internal conditions, 14 things that occurred within buildings. This 15 deals with roofs. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: These are 17 municipal roofing projects, and I didn't really 18 mean to compare them, Senator Saland, and so I 19 just want to alleviate your concern that I 20 would. 21 What I'm just trying to say is 22 that just the issue of the failure to remove or 23 what might be a broader determination that would 9985 1 prevent removal was what concerned me. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Let me suggest 3 to you that this is not an effort to remove from 4 the ambit of regulation the requirements that 5 people who perform asbestos removal or asbestos 6 removal from roofs are not, in fact, regulated. 7 These very same people who you and I talked 8 about a bit earlier with regard to volunteer 9 firemen are people whom we would have regulate 10 the roofer who would be removing asbestos, as 11 are currently regulated in the private sector 12 and this would be the infamous OSHA. 13 We're merely saying that the 14 current labor regulations that require a 15 considerable amount of expenditure, a 16 considerable amount of additional and, to many, 17 burdensome requirements that the private sector 18 does not have to endure should very similarly 19 not be imposed on municipalities. It is 20 estimated that between municipalities and school 21 districts that, conservatively, this would mean 22 somewhere in the area of a $175 million 23 savings. I have been advised by people 9986 1 representing roofing contractors that they 2 believe that number could be well in excess of 3 $400 million. 4 We certainly do not believe that 5 we are in any way jeopardizing the health of any 6 students or any employees. Again, we are 7 working only here in this section on removing 8 asbestos from the roofs of buildings. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 10 Senator. Now that we know how roofing 11 contractors feel, I just want you to know that 12 District Council 37 and the Civil Service 13 Employees Association are virulently opposed to 14 this inclusion in the omnibus package, and their 15 feeling is that the state standard that we have 16 previously had is a lot stricter than what 17 would, I guess, be the federal standard, and 18 that this would really contradict and serve as a 19 departure from that in the area of asbestos 20 removal, which has recently become a serious 21 issue because it really affects a lot more 22 buildings and roofs and edifices than we would 23 have first projected, but it's now, of course, 9987 1 making it more difficult for contractors and 2 developers, and we understand that, but the 3 point is, that when we prioritize this, the 4 safety of workers and the safety of visitors are 5 really a priority; and it's just -- and as I 6 would see it where we in the state previously 7 tightened what would have been the federal 8 regulations to what we would have wanted them to 9 be, aren't we now going in the opposite 10 direction by adopting this as part of your 11 bill? 12 SENATOR SALAND: I think we can 13 only talk in relative terms, Senator Paterson. 14 I don't think that, in fact, we are jeopardizing 15 anybody's health or well being. The reality is, 16 these standards have been used, the standards 17 that we are proposing to use, the OSHA 18 standards, certainly by anybody's recognition 19 not diluted or -- nor is OSHA renowned as some 20 how or other being -- being wanton or -- or 21 somehow or other lacking in zeal when it comes 22 to enforcing their regulations. 23 These are the very same 9988 1 regulations that the vast majority of roofing 2 jobs in this state, commercial roofing jobs, are 3 performed under. There are no horror stories 4 associated with those roofing jobs, no health 5 stories associated with those roofing jobs, to 6 show that somehow or other the public is being 7 put at risk. 8 What we have here is something 9 that would seem would be sensible, doesn't put 10 anybody at risk, and affords an enormous 11 savings, and I think this is one of these 12 instances, although I can't say with absolute 13 certainty, that New York has placed itself at 14 such a standard, such a relatively high 15 standard, as to be beyond the realm of anything 16 realistic and, certainly, far above what's 17 occurring all over our own state in non 18 municipal situations and probably throughout 19 most of the country. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, if 23 you will continue to yield? 9989 1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Do we, in 6 fact, have any air monitoring requirements as 7 part of the new regulations that you will be 8 proposing? 9 SENATOR SALAND: I believe that 10 the OSHA -- I could not tell you exactly what 11 they are, but I believe the OSHA requirements in 12 addition to whatever EPA requirements may 13 currently exist require some air monitoring. I 14 could not tell you what the measurements are, 15 though, Senator. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 19 Senator. Moving to Section 24 of the omnibus 20 bill and further subsections, what you are doing 21 here is eliminating unfunded mandates on 22 localities of a certain size or approximating a 23 certain amount of money. 9990 1 My question to you relates to our 2 duty, right here, as legislators. I would have 3 thought that this is something that we would be 4 in a sense codifying into law and restricting 5 ourselves from implementing later certain pieces 6 of legislation that would now be barred by the 7 enactment of this law and summarily relieving 8 ourselves of many responsibilities. 9 Why do you want to take that 10 power away from the Legislature? 11 SENATOR SALAND: I hate to make 12 you do this again, Senator, but I was looking 13 for Section 24 as you were speaking, and I 14 didn't get your comments in their entirety. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: I guess, just 16 to simplify it, your rationale for the unfunded 17 mandates provision. 18 SENATOR SALAND: In Section 24? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, and other 20 sections that follow. 21 SENATOR SALAND: My rationale 22 basically is I think rather elementary. I don't 23 think that we should be in the business of 9991 1 attempting to impose mandates when we are not 2 providing the funding; and we've had, 3 unfortunately, a history of having done that; 4 and in a rather extended and omnibus fashion, 5 what we're trying to accomplish with this bill 6 is to undo a number of those mandates that we 7 have imposed. It certainly is a history that 8 leaves a lot to be desired, and we feel that 9 this bill can be a cornerstone of changing what 10 have been, unfortunately, far too prevalent of a 11 practice for far too long. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 15 if the Senator will continue to yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 continues to yield. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Are you 19 keeping -- excuse me, Senator Paterson. Are you 20 keeping count? Are we approaching 250 yet? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're at 22 19. 23 SENATOR SALAND: The President is 9992 1 keeping count. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're at 3 19. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 5 But, Senator, my problem with 6 this is that this is really a flat prohibition 7 that you are actually proposing here. In other 8 words -- well, it's really not a flat 9 prohibition. I will correct myself. You do 10 have it limited to over $1 million and where the 11 population is over 10,000. I'm saying that that 12 is a pretty expansive margin that you have left; 13 and to be perfectly honest with you, there have 14 been a lot pieces of legislation that have gone 15 through here in a year where we are -- at least 16 our new governor is talking about his objection 17 to unfunded mandates, and I can understand that 18 and I can understand yours, but I have seen a 19 number of pieces of legislation that have gone 20 through this house that would actually be in 21 violation of what you are proposing. 22 As long as we're clear on what 23 we're actually doing, I'm just asking you if you 9993 1 think that that's actually the way to go, when 2 it's actually the Legislature and our elected 3 duty that I thought would have superceded one 4 flat prohibition that would guide us through the 5 rest of time when it comes to what we term 6 unfunded mandates. 7 SENATOR SALAND: I've struggled 8 to find the exact language to which you are 9 referring; but, nonetheless, let me say that I'm 10 hoping that this really would amount to, in 11 effect, a watershed; that this, in effect, would 12 chart a new course for us, one that I would 13 think would be certainly well received and well 14 appreciated by local government and certainly 15 would set a standard that I think would speak 16 well of us, if, in fact, we could begin the trip 17 down that path. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 19 want to apologize to you. It really was $10,000 20 per municipality not to exceed a total of $1 21 million for all municipalities. That's what 22 your bill reads. 23 And, my final question on this 9994 1 subject is just how are we going to keep up with 2 other local governments around the country and 3 what other municipalities are doing and work 4 around what you are trying to achieve in this 5 legislation at the same time? 6 SENATOR SALAND: I believe, 7 although it's not a majority position, that a 8 number of states have adopted mandate relief 9 type proposals. This proposal, basically, deals 10 with -- primarily with various mandates that are 11 currently on the books that we're endeavoring 12 to, in effect, remove. There certainly is the 13 ability to deal with issues prospectively, as 14 you have more than implied. 15 I would like to join that ten to 16 twelve states that have adopted mandate relief 17 as, sort of their bylaw, so to speak; and I 18 believe, again, our respective constituencies, 19 whether they be urban, suburban, or rural, would 20 welcome that type of mandate relief and 21 certainly would appreciate having that type of 22 atmosphere in which to go forward. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9995 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, how 3 are you holding up? 4 SENATOR SALAND: I would assume 5 the President would tell us we're somewhere in 6 the 20s right now. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 9 Saland, I want to turn your attention to Section 10 32 of the legislation, and I guess we can cover 11 these together, so, Mr. President, you can put 12 about 50 points on this one. 13 The section that ascribes to 14 those individuals who are on probation the duty 15 to pay for their parole visits, assuming that 16 they have the financial means to pay, and also 17 for those nonindigent inmates the cost of 18 medical services and food. 19 Now, we took this up in a bill 20 earlier that was introduced in the session. 21 I'll try not to take much time on it. First of 22 all, how much money do you think the state can 23 save through the -- through implementing this 9996 1 procedure, and I also want to know who is going 2 to monitor it? Who determines who is 3 nonindigent? 4 SENATOR SALAND: If I recollect, 5 this bill was a bill, which -- there was a bill 6 introduced comparable to this portion of our 7 omnibus bill by, I believe, Senator Skelos. I 8 don't recall and do not have in my file the 9 amount of money attributed to the savings 10 associated with this particular section. At one 11 time, I did have in this file a breakdown by 12 section. Unfortunately, in looking for it 13 before we started the debate, I could not find 14 it. I would assume that indigency would be 15 determined in the same fashion as might 16 currently be determined by, in effect, 17 documentation that would be provided to either 18 the Probation Department or to an official 19 designated by that department. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Then I'll tell 23 you what I'll do, Senator. I will move on to 9997 1 another question because we have discussed this 2 on the record earlier this session, and it 3 appears that you don't have the material you 4 would actually need, so I would ask you to turn 5 your attention to Section 92. Now, you can take 6 your winnings home, Senator, like they did on 7 "21" or you can go for another question. 8 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, 9 Senator, I didn't hear what you said. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, no, I'm 11 going to ask you about Section 92, which allows 12 for coroners the transport of a corpse even 13 though they are not physicians, and what 14 disturbs me about this is that they may not be 15 physicians; they may be able to transport 16 corpses, but they also may not be trained to do 17 so. 18 How are we going to determine 19 whether a coroner has actually achieved in the 20 field to the extent of rising to the level that 21 they might be able to transport corpses, which 22 is obviously something that takes within it a 23 great deal of responsibility? 9998 1 SENATOR SALAND: I think the 2 assumption underlying this bill is that coroners 3 certainly are -- either by way of training or by 4 way of practice, certainly adept at 5 accomplishing that very thing. We have county 6 coroners in our counties, certainly -- perhaps 7 don't have the type of forensic laboratories and 8 the like that you will find in some of your 9 larger municipalities or larger counties, but 10 these ladies or gentlemen are generally adept at 11 what they're doing, have been trained in what 12 they're doing and are bound to be generally 13 reliable. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, if 15 you will continue to yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Saland, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 continues to yield. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: I would be 23 curious to know what prosecutors have felt about 9999 1 this, because what is essential to the criminal 2 prosecution in many situations is the validity 3 of the evidence and as we have seen and read 4 about, particularly recently in some highly 5 profiled cases, it is the handling of evidence 6 and the possibility often for the defense to 7 expose that, even when often the defense has 8 nothing else to hang their hats on, the fact 9 that the presentation of the evidence, 10 particularly in -- where there has been a 11 fatality, and particularly in murder cases, is 12 essential for the physician to provide. 13 It is beyond the scope of what 14 the coroner's role usually is in the actual 15 investigation; and so I'm asking you, do you 16 think that this is something that possibly can 17 impede a criminal prosecution; and have you 18 received any information from any of the 19 district attorneys' associations as to what they 20 feel about this? 21 SENATOR SALAND: No, Senator, I 22 certainly share your concerns with regard to 23 maintaining the chain of evidence and certainly 10000 1 avoiding the polluting of that evidence. 2 What is being done here is -- and 3 I have received nothing from any district 4 attorney or district attorneys' organization 5 expressing any concern about these provisions; 6 and what these provisions do, basically, is try 7 and deal with some rather unique situations. 8 The bill talks in terms of where it would be - 9 permitting the removal would be impossible or 10 impractical to at once notify a designated 11 coroner's physician to go to the place where the 12 body is, and then goes on to provide further 13 limitations on that particular responsibility. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 17 Senator Saland, I just kind of answer that to 18 say that I think that it would probably be 19 better served if there were some allowance in 20 your legislation for what might be termed highly 21 suspicious fatalities because in the normal 22 course of events, you are probably right, but in 23 these situations, I think we've got to have a 10001 1 higher standard of investigation. 2 Finally, Senator Saland, Sections 3 96 and, I believe, 98, involving the opportunity 4 for localities to, with public notice -- and I 5 must add that you did include in the legislation 6 that there must be notification -- the removal 7 of signs from roadways and also the creation of 8 maintenance for the roadways would be somewhat 9 reduced if the locality feels that it actually 10 should. 11 Do you think that this is 12 applying somewhat of a subjective standard? For 13 people who travel all over the state and are 14 using a lot of these roadways, we are now 15 subjecting ourselves to the safety standards 16 that often might be the whims of individuals in 17 a particular area and, in a sense, decreasing 18 highway safety in toto around the state. 19 SENATOR SALAND: I believe that 20 there are standards that are contained in here. 21 We're talking basically about rural counties and 22 rural towns. The definition of rural counties 23 and rural towns is provided. A rural county 10002 1 would be one having a population of less than 2 200,000. A rural town is defined as having 3 fewer than 150 persons per square mile. 4 And, for instance, a low volume 5 road is defined as a road, or a portion thereof, 6 located in a rural county or town which has an 7 average daily traffic count of less than 400 8 motor vehicles. The intent here, again, is to 9 try and relieve the burden on our smaller 10 communities, our smaller counties and towns in a 11 fashion that provides them some degree of 12 flexibility and yet permits that flexibility in 13 those areas where the roads are by definition 14 low volume. 15 For those of us who represent 16 rural communities, as many of us in this house 17 do, this is something, I believe, that affords 18 not only flexibility but, certainly, relief in 19 the form of real property tax relief to these 20 communities, and I don't believe it jeopardizes 21 anybody's safety or well-being. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson. 10003 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 2 understand your answer, but I'm wondering if you 3 understand my concern, that people traveling 4 through these particular areas aren't really 5 familiar with what may be a minimum maintenance 6 road, and I would think that in a court case if 7 a person is actually able to aver that at trial 8 that they didn't know what a minimum maintenance 9 road is, that the municipality may open itself 10 up to more lawsuits as a result of the fact that 11 the court might rule that it was not within a 12 reasonable person's contemplation that they were 13 in a circumstance where there was a higher risk 14 than the average one traveling on a road; and 15 I'm just saying, do you think it's worth it to 16 do that and subject what these localities who 17 may think that they are acting -- that they are 18 getting an advantage from this legislation and 19 may wind up with a few lawsuits that will 20 certainly compromise that point of view if the 21 plaintiff prevails? 22 SENATOR SALAND: If I can, I call 23 your attention to Section 331(f) -- I'm sorry - 10004 1 331(e), which deals with the signing 2 requirement, and it reads as follows: "The 3 Department shall design a minimum road sign to 4 be posted on the minimum maintenance road in 5 accordance with this article. Such sign shall 6 notify and advise motorists of the need to 7 exercise caution when traveling such roads and 8 shall conform to the Manual of Uniform Traffic 9 Control Devices. Properly posted signs shall be 10 prima facie evidence that adequate notice of a 11 minimum maintenance road designation has been 12 given to the public." 13 So I think there would be both 14 notice and, certainly, as indicated in the 15 language, at least prima facie evidence of 16 adequate notice. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Senator, 20 if you were Karnak and I were Ed McMahon, "I 21 hold in my hand the last question." 22 SENATOR SALAND: You've really 23 fooled me, because I thought the last one was 10005 1 the last one. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: And this is 3 going to impose on you the duty to explain it to 4 me because I don't understand it. It relates to 5 Section 131 of the bill, and I'm going to give 6 you what I understand from it, and then I would 7 like you to correct me. 8 Municipalities who would take 9 ownership of property would, as long as they 10 don't manage it, be shielded from the lawsuit if 11 there's environmental spills or some kind of 12 solid waste that is deemed to be contaminated; 13 so, in other words, the municipality -- is what 14 you are saying that the municipality will not be 15 liable if the municipality takes ownership but 16 does not manage the property? 17 SENATOR SALAND: There are 18 circumstances, whether it be, for instance, 19 taking over a property for delinquent taxes, 20 where a municipality will, in fact, find itself 21 with a piece of property that may be one in 22 which there are hazardous substances or 23 hazardous wastes. 10006 1 What we're saying is we're doing 2 nothing to impair the issue of liability as it 3 is currently handled with regard to anybody who 4 might be in that chain of title except for that 5 municipality that, in effect, becomes the owner 6 and has done nothing to either foster the 7 condition or done anything to aggravate the 8 condition. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: What 10 immediately comes to mind, Senator, is that the 11 burden of proof now is vested in the plaintiff 12 because short of acting against the municipal 13 ity, now the plaintiff has to find whoever the 14 violator is and then bring civil suit against 15 them, whereas, if the plaintiff can sue the 16 municipality, the municipality can now 17 interplead and, in a sense, annex whoever may 18 have actually been responsible. 19 So as I see it, this puts the 20 victim of the hazardous waste in the precarious 21 position of having to go and seek among several 22 suspects or even find among maybe a known entity 23 that can't be located, whoever it is that 10007 1 damaged the property; and between the plaintiff 2 and the municipality, I suggest that it is the 3 latter who would have more information and 4 greater authority to actually involve the third 5 party who may actually be at fault. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Let me provide 7 you, if I might, with the converse of that. 8 I'm not quite sure that the 9 plaintiff might not be able to adequately 10 through their own counsel or through their own 11 investigation determine who the real parties in 12 interest were. 13 What we're doing here is saying 14 that the municipality which has been basically a 15 passive player in getting involved with this 16 piece of property should not become a deep 17 pocket simply because they happen to be the 18 owner of record and are a municipality and are 19 just sitting out there sort of like a fat cat. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's 21 actually a good answer and a thoughtful answer, 22 Senator, but I've got to ask you this question, 23 which is -- I'm over my question allotment. I'm 10008 1 on 251 now, but I thought you would yield and 2 give me one last question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 4 yield to one last question, Senator Saland? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Is this what 6 Johnny Carson did, like this (indicating)? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. In fact, 8 what I may do is, I will give you the answer and 9 then you give me the question. 10 Senator, what is to prevent the 11 municipality from going out and hiring a 12 management company that will now manage the 13 property and will, in a sense, serve as the 14 shield for the municipality from suit? 15 Now, you mentioned liens, but I 16 don't see in your legislation any way that the 17 plaintiff can bring a lien. All I see is that 18 if the municipality attains ownership, there 19 will be actually no way for the plaintiff to 20 actually prevail in any kind of a lawsuit 21 because you set up what might be termed a 22 municipal shield by creating these management 23 companies who really in a lot of ways might be 10009 1 able to fritter away the actual suit to the 2 point that the plaintiff can't recover. 3 So what I'm asking you is why did 4 you not include a method in which, in those 5 situations where the municipality is actually 6 responsible, there can be an attachment between 7 the management company and the actual owner? 8 SENATOR SALAND: Well, I have no 9 recollection of having talked in terms of liens, 10 and what we're again doing here is attempting 11 to, in all candor, shield a municipality from 12 being, simply because of the very nature of it 13 being a municipality, the proverbial deep 14 pocket. To the extent that the municipality or 15 its agents may somehow or other actively 16 contribute to whatever environmental problem 17 exists at this particular parcel, I would say 18 there would be a question of fact that certainly 19 could hold them as a party in interest in 20 whatever litigation might be brought on. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Mr. 22 President, I would like you to thank Senator 23 Saland for his tireless and continuing efforts 10010 1 to answer my questions. I appreciate it very 2 much. 3 And, on the bill - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson on the bill. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: -- just to 7 summarize this last part, Section 131. 8 Senator Saland is right. He 9 didn't mention a lien. I was a little 10 misleading. What I meant was that the tax lien 11 is the way that the municipality may obtain the 12 property, but, in reality, the municipality 13 doesn't actually know that it has the property, 14 and I think that was the area where Senator 15 Saland has thoughtfully tried to provide some 16 redress for the municipality, where the 17 municipality may not be at fault and may not 18 even know that they actually own the land. 19 But the issue is that, since he 20 writes in his legislation just that there is 21 ownership, he has not separated the acquiring of 22 the property by tax lien from the, also, 23 incident that occurs in many cases where the 10011 1 municipality actually owns the land, knows they 2 own the land, may even have been part of the 3 violation and the contamination of the land and, 4 because they now have a management company, they 5 are -- they have thwarted the attempts of 6 recovery on the part of plaintiffs. 7 And there are a number of issues 8 in this piece of legislation, as consolidated, 9 related to asbestos removal, related to the duty 10 of inmates often to provide financial relief for 11 their own incarceration, and obviously related 12 to -- to the professional ability of the 13 coroners and also the volunteer fire fighters' 14 training; and so there are a lot of good things 15 in this bill as with most consolidations, but 16 there are a number of things that, to me, raise 17 a red flag about whether or not we should be 18 enacting this bill at this particular time. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 140. 22 This act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10012 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results when tabulated. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 937 are Senators 8 Abate, Connor, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, 9 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Santiago, Smith, 10 Solomon, Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 13. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 14 can you please recognize Senator Goodman. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Goodman. 17 SENATOR GOODMAN: With unanimous 18 consent, may I please be recorded in the 19 negative on Senate 3092, Calendar 1296, and 20 Senate 70 -- I'm sorry -- Senate 3093, Calendar 21 1297. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, Senator Goodman will be recorded in 10013 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1296. 2 Senator Goodman, for your 3 benefit, Calendar Number 1297 has not been taken 4 up yet. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Has not what? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It has 7 not been taken up yet. It has not passed. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: I beg your 9 pardon, Mr. President. I withdraw the request. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Santiago, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 13 I would like the record to show that if I had 14 been in the chamber when the Calendar Number 15 1299 passed, I would have been recorded in the 16 negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Santiago, the record will reflect that had you 19 been in the chamber when Calendar Number 1299 20 was called that you would have been recorded in 21 the negative. 22 Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 10014 1 President. I was out of the chamber while the 2 debate was going on for the last turkey, and I 3 would like to be recorded in the negative on 4 937, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, Senator Gold will be recorded in the 7 negative on Calendar Number 937. 8 Senator Mendez. 9 SENATOR MENDEZ: (Indicating in 10 the negative on 937.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 12 objection, Senator Mendez will be recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 937. 14 Senator Spano. 15 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 16 can you please have the Secretary read Calendar 17 1287. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title of Calendar Number 1287. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 32, 21 Calendar Number 1287, by Senator Hannon, Senate 22 Print 5238, an act to amend the Public Health 23 Law, in relation to quality assurance of managed 10015 1 care plans. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Hannon, an explanation of Calendar Number 1287 5 has been asked for by the Deputy Minority 6 Leader, Senator Paterson. 7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 8 President. This legislation which was contained 9 as part of our earlier omnibus Medicaid bill 10 that had only passed this house sets forth that 11 every health maintenance organization in the 12 state has to basically reach the standard set by 13 a national not-for-profit organization known as 14 the NCQA, and that group is the National 15 Committee for Quality Assurance, has set forth a 16 number of very stringent quality levels that 17 deals with consumer rights, members' rights and 18 responsibilities, questions as to how the 19 preventive health services shall be maintained, 20 questions as to appeals by individuals. 21 So it's basically a national 22 standard, and we were very interested in having 23 this as something that all of the HMOs in the 10016 1 state would achieve. It would be higher than 2 the standards that are currently in existence, 3 and we thought that was something that would 4 give the assurance to all of our constituents 5 that they would be receiving quality care when 6 they are getting their coverage under an HMO, 7 and that HMO right now is an organization that's 8 delivering care to about 25 percent of New 9 Yorkers, so that's the reason for it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 Senator Hannon, we don't really 15 have much of a problem on this bill, just a 16 question that kind of comes to mind. 17 Since we have a state task force 18 on quality assurance, do you think that the 19 legislation is kind of jumping ahead of it? 20 Don't you think we should wait until they come 21 back with a recommendation? 22 SENATOR HANNON: No. Many of the 23 questions as to who is going to provide the 10017 1 coverage are being answered outside of the scope 2 of state government. They are being answered by 3 employers who are opting for reasons of cost, 4 for reasons of stabilization of cost, to have 5 their employees get their health coverage 6 through health maintenance organizations. 7 Let me point out to you that this 8 not-for-profit organization is nationally 9 recognized, has an ongoing, ever-increasing set 10 of standards, publishes in a very open way what 11 they are doing, their standards, looks for 12 increasing input. 13 So what it is is an ongoing 14 improvement of what's happening, and I think 15 that putting this out there, postulating it, 16 would be a good thing for us to say to people - 17 "Well, I've just gotten switched. How do I 18 know what they are doing is better than my old 19 plan?" Now we can say it's because we've 20 required this as a standard. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator - 10018 1 Senator Hannon. I have been asking Senator 2 Saland so many questions, I almost asked him 3 another one. 4 The National Committee on Quality 5 Assurance, are they recognized as upholding the 6 national standard, Senator? 7 SENATOR HANNON: Recognized? 8 SENATOR PATERSON: I mean do most 9 experts feel that they - 10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. Yes. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. 12 Then -- unless Senator Hannon cares to comment. 13 SENATOR HANNON: I must tell you, 14 Senator, in the course of the discussions on it, 15 when we were putting it into the earlier bill, 16 the only complaints I heard, and they were never 17 on the record, were, "We don't know if we can be 18 sure that our plan will be able to meet those 19 high standards," and that actually, to my mind, 20 was a good reason to put them forward so that we 21 could say to folks, "Look, this is something we 22 want for the people who will get this coverage." 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10019 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. I guess you can have the Secretary 4 read the last section. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 6 President. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: I guess not, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you 10 sure? 11 Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I just have 13 one question, Mr. President, of the sponsor. 14 Does this bill provide that the Health 15 Department will do any kind of periodic review 16 of these national standards to evaluate them for 17 purposes of New York? 18 My concern is, I think this is a 19 good thing to do, to set a national -- to comply 20 with national standards, and I think if we 21 comply with national standards, we're probably 22 in pretty good hands. But at some point, does 23 the Health Department do any preliminary 10020 1 evaluation of those standards to make sure 2 they're the right standards for New York, or any 3 kind of certification, that these are quality 4 standards? 5 SENATOR HANNON: No. First of 6 all, they already have their own extensive set 7 of standards out there but, like most states, 8 they are already outmoded, and they don't have 9 the flexibility that I would think is good; and, 10 second, even if the state does have standards 11 and all of that that would be applicable, they 12 don't apply necessarily to all of the 13 employers. 14 We're stuck with the problem that 15 many of the big employers -- and actually the 16 cost has become so great, it goes down to 17 smaller employers have the ability to be 18 self-insured and, once self-insured, can get out 19 from under the state regulation. 20 So to the extent that we have 21 national companies or international companies 22 and IBM, Kodak, Bausch & Lomb, and Xerox and 23 American Express, they have opted into HMOs that 10021 1 meet these standards because they want to be 2 able to offer plans from state to state that 3 will all be of the same quality level. 4 So, no, we don't have it, but I 5 can also assure you that given the Health 6 Department, which already has 45 to 50 advisory 7 commissions, task forces, and councils, that 8 there is no lack of groups taking a look at 9 these standards. 10 The Task Force on Guidelines and 11 Outcomes I spoke to a couple weeks ago is now 12 desiring to transfer themselves just into this, 13 and you can be assured that the Public Health 14 Council, the Planning Council would all be doing 15 the same type of thing. So we have, in essence, 16 the equivalent of what you would be asking. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: One other 18 short one, Mr. President. 19 Can I assume, Mr. Chairman, that 20 by your comments that those that are self 21 insured, the Kodaks and Xerox and others that 22 have done this, I mean they have an incentive to 23 make sure that these nationwide quality 10022 1 standards are high ones, because they are buying 2 the products, in essence, by paying the premiums 3 of the HMOs and their employees will be the 4 users of these services. Those employees would 5 want to make sure that high quality health care 6 through the HMOs is part of the process. So we 7 get that added effect of getting a closer 8 linkage between the buyer of the product, the 9 actual payor, and the provider of the product to 10 make sure that the quality standards are 11 consistent. That is part of it, as well? 12 SENATOR HANNON: Absolutely. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. Chairman. I will vote in favor. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10023 1 is passed. 2 Senator Spano. 3 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 4 please call Calendar 1327. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the title of Calendar Number 1327. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1327, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 3631A, 9 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and Assembly 10 proposing amendments to Sections 1, 2, 10, 11 11 and 16 of Article VII of the Constitution. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Stafford for an explanation. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I don't know 17 why I'm thanking you for the question, but 18 anyway. 19 This, Mr. President, is the 20 second passage of the debt proposition which 21 will be before the voters if we pass this 22 proposition. 23 Mr. President, as we explained 10024 1 last year when this passed, this has been 2 negotiated with the Assembly, and what it does, 3 in effect, is limit borrowing money, and there 4 are limitations, and I can go over everything, 5 but the key here is that newly revenue-backed 6 debt is not subject to voter approval but 7 subject to a cap based on personal income, and 8 that cap will be -- it begins at 1 percent in 9 the state fiscal year 1996-97 and increases up 10 to 4.4 percent in fiscal year 2008-2009. 11 Doesn't that sound funny? And it isn't going to 12 be long when we are going to be saying that, 13 hopefully, all of us. Hopefully, all of us. 14 There are other prohibitions, Mr. 15 President. I think maybe we should emphasize 16 this one: Prohibition against contracting any 17 debt for operating purposes. 18 Also, there's creation of a 19 revenue debt backed by a dedicated trust fund 20 for financing transportation capital projects. 21 There will be an annual 22 submission by the Governor of a detailed multi 23 year capital projects plan and financing plan to 10025 1 the Legislature, which I think is welcome. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Onorato. 5 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 6 Stafford, would you yield for a question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Stafford, would you yield? 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator 13 Stafford, I take notice that last year Governor 14 Pataki voted against this bill. I was just 15 wondering if there's any changes now that would 16 make him change his mind into signing it. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: I have all I 18 can do to keep track of myself from year to 19 year, how we're voting, and I'm not going to 20 look at anybody's vote other than this year, and 21 I hope we certainly will have the required 22 number. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10026 1 Hoffmann. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator 3 Stafford yield for another question, Mr. 4 President? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Stafford, do you yield to Senator Hoffmann? 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 9 Stafford, would this bill allow extreme 10 circumstances in which borrowing could occur in 11 excess of the amount stipulated? 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: I want to 13 commend Senator Hoffmann for reading the 14 proposition. I inadvertently went over that 15 portion. Yes. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President, 17 if Senator Stafford would continue to yield, I 18 would convey to him through you my appreciation 19 for his commendation on my reading of the bill, 20 but I - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Stafford, Senator Hoffmann is very appreciative 23 of your recognition that she has read the bill. 10027 1 She wants to know whether or not you would yield 2 to another question? 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, due to 4 the fact that -- yes. Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 yields. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 I wonder if Senator Stafford 10 could explain to the members of the Senate the 11 situation of economic emergency which might 12 precipitate such additional borrowing on the 13 State's present credit rating. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: I recall -- I 15 don't think there's anyone in the room that 16 would remember other than myself -- for 17 instance, Route 3 between Saranac Lake and 18 Plattsburgh - 19 Oh, you remember that? Well, 20 good. 21 On a serious note -- was 22 completely wiped out by a flash flood. It was 23 in 1947, and I think it was on a Sunday; and as 10028 1 a matter of fact, I think it was - 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explanation 3 satisfactory, Mr. President. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you. 5 (Laughter.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 question is on the resolution. The Secretary 8 will call the roll. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Whoa! Whoa! 10 Mr. President, on the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Hoffmann, on the bill. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I will - 14 please convey to Senator Stafford my extreme 15 satisfaction at his lengthy explanation about 16 activities in his district on the year that I 17 was born, and my limited frustration at not 18 having a better understanding of those emergency 19 procedures or states within the state of New 20 York that might compel borrowing against the 21 state's debt load in excess of the amount 22 stipulated within this measure. 23 But I am reading from some 10029 1 memorandum provided by staff and also from the 2 Senate record from a debate that took place, if 3 you could call it that, at 2:25 a.m. on the 8th 4 of June last year, which was the first occasion 5 when we passed this; and I want to commend you, 6 Mr. President -- you were presiding at the 7 time -- on your even-handed handling of the 8 gavel that evening because it must have been a 9 very stressful debate, judging by the many pages 10 that I have here. 11 However, it was apparent that 12 time, and it's apparent this time, that there 13 are many unanswered questions about this 14 measure, that it is clearly not the kind of debt 15 reform that we should, in fact, be doing and I 16 would just remind my colleagues again this year, 17 as I did last year, that we do not have to pass 18 this measure now. It does not have to go before 19 the voters for at least another year. 20 We could hold public hearings on 21 this. We could do many things to make it a 22 better bill. It does not have long-term 23 oversight as was recommended by the Comptroller 10030 1 in his original bill. It allows a procedure 2 classified as an emergency measure when the 3 State's unemployment rate exceeds -- when there 4 is a 3 percent decline in employment. It 5 doesn't say whether it's a decline over a period 6 of a few days, a few months, or a year, but a 7 decline of employment at the rate of 3 percent 8 could be classified as an emergency, an economic 9 emergency allowing some rather casual and 10 dangerous borrowing in addition to the debt load 11 that we already have. 12 Probably the most frustrating 13 feature of all in this so-called Debt Reform Act 14 is the fact that it does not address the fact 15 that we already have an excessive amount of 16 debt. It simply allows us additional ways that 17 we could accumulate more debt. I find that to 18 be an unacceptable way for us to address the 19 business of the state, and I find myself, once 20 again, in the unique position of being a 21 Democrat serving in the New York State Senate 22 who is in agreement with another member of this 23 house who served here last term who is now the 10031 1 Governor of this state, and when George Pataki 2 and I and other members of this house voted 3 against this measure last session, I believe we 4 were correct. 5 This is not a significant debt 6 reform measure. We should not be perpetuating 7 this fraud. We should not be telling people 8 this is our way of cleaning up the state's 9 finances and not getting us into trouble in the 10 future because it simply isn't true. 11 We should all have the courage to 12 vote no now, say we made a mistake last year, go 13 back to the drawing board and not claim that we 14 want to put this before the public in a 15 referendum to change the Constitution of this 16 state. It is not debt reform. 17 I will once again vote no, and 18 I'm sure we have not heard the last of this, Mr. 19 President. 20 Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 question is on the resolution. Excuse me. 23 SENATOR STAFFORD: Very briefly. 10032 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Stafford. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: Senator 4 Hoffmann raises a legitimate issue. As with 5 lawyers, you know, this is what happens. There 6 is a real difference of opinion whether we have 7 to pass this, in other words, a year following 8 when we passed the first one, so in other words, 9 this year. Some people would say we could do it 10 next year, but I would suggest that we should 11 pass it this year because there is a question, 12 and I think it -- looking at it, I think, it 13 would fall if we did not do it this year. 14 And please let me emphasize this, 15 Mr. President. This is not -- is not perfect, I 16 assure you, but when we have prohibitions in 17 here for contracting any debt for operating 18 purposes, I suggest we're stepping in the right 19 direction. 20 Also in this emergency, I would 21 just point out that we looked at it, and it is 22 the preceding 12 months of the -- when they want 23 to borrow the money as far as the 3 percent 10033 1 decline in the level of state employment, and I 2 should have pointed that out. 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 4 Senator Stafford. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 question is on the resolution. Secretary will 7 call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 11 the result -- Senator Jones to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR JONES: Yes. I was going 13 to ask questions, but Senator Hoffmann quickly 14 demonstrated to me the uselessness of that, so I 15 will just go ahead and vote. Many of the things 16 she said, certainly I feel the same way about. 17 I felt very comfortable joining Senator Pataki 18 last year in voting against this. 19 I think the problem is, while it 20 certainly is an improvement on the debt 21 situation that we found ourselves in, there's 22 still a lot more we could do, and it seems like 23 so often we grab at something rather than do 10034 1 nothing. I would rather grab at something 2 correct that does answer all the problems than 3 accept nothing. 4 We just did that last week with 5 the pension bill, where we accepted a raid. We 6 all knew it wasn't right, but we wanted the 7 pension supplement. 8 So I'm going to stick with my no 9 vote and I still believe, although debt reform 10 is certainly -- and it is an issue that I've 11 spent a lot of time on. I still think there's 12 something better than this bill that we could go 13 for, so I'm going to say no until I see that. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Jones will be recorded in the negative. 16 Senator Montgomery? Being 17 recorded in the negative. 18 Senator Leichter to explain his 19 vote. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 last year, I voted in the negative on this bill, 22 and I was glad that then Senator George Pataki 23 stood with us. However, now having had first 10035 1 passage, and with the ability to have second 2 passage and bearing in mind that otherwise we go 3 back to the drawing board and we will not have 4 any limitations or restriction on what has been 5 really a chaotic and indisciplined borrowing 6 practice by the State of New York, I think it 7 makes sense to support this resolution. 8 I believe that even though the 9 Comptroller last year had some questions on it 10 that he is supporting this second passage. It 11 does impose some important restrictions against 12 undisciplined borrowing and, for that reason, I 13 will support it this year. Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative. 16 Senator Dollinger to explain his 17 vote. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my 19 vote, Mr. President. 20 I also voted with then Senator 21 George Pataki against this bill, and I guess 22 I've come to the conclusion that there are those 23 in this chamber who may say we've gotten a 10036 1 little bit of discipline in this proposed 2 constitutional amendment, and we probably do 3 have a little bit of discipline. 4 My fear is even if the voters 5 accept this little bit of discipline, we will 6 all declare a great victory and for 20 years we 7 will put the issue of reforming our debt 8 practices way, way, way back on the back burner, 9 and it will be the year 2020 before we get 10 around to creating real discipline in our debt 11 practices. 12 So, although this takes a step 13 down the road, I would have preferred a much 14 more giant step to really reform the practices 15 and get the state back on a better borrowing 16 keel. 17 I will be voting negative, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 21 Announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar 1327 are Senators 10037 1 Dollinger, Hoffmann, Jones, and Montgomery. 2 Ayes 56, nays 4. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 resolution is adopted. 5 Senator Maziarz. 6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Regular order, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will continue to call the 10 controversial calendar, Supplemental Calendar 11 Number 1. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1324, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3006-A, an 14 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 15 relation to the presence of counsel. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Libous, an explanation has been asked for by 19 Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay that bill 21 aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside for the day. 10038 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1333, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4799, an 3 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 4 including certain obscenity crimes in the 5 definition of criminal act under the Organized 6 Crime Control Act. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the first day of 11 November. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1334, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4815 - 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Lay it aside 21 for a few minutes, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside temporarily. 10039 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly 3 Print 4958, concurrent resolution of the Senate 4 and Assembly proposing amendments to Section 1, 5 5, 6 and 8 of Article II of the Constitution. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 might we call the roll on reconsideration on 10 Calendar Number 1333 for purposes of having it 11 explained? It just passed. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is in the house. The Secretary will call the 14 roll on reconsideration on Calendar Number 1333. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1333, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4799, an 17 act to amend the Penal Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is before the house. 20 Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 22 please. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 10040 1 thought my explanation was suff... no, no. What 2 this bill does, it's a bill that's passed this 3 house on several occasions before which would 4 include obscenity in the definition of a 5 criminal act under the Organized Crime Control 6 Act, and it would, in effect, add pornography to 7 the definition of criminal acts that are covered 8 by the Organized Crime Control Act or, I guess 9 it's called RICO. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: The 13 explanation, satisfactory as it may have been, 14 leads me to a question, if Senator Volker would 15 yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Volker, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 22 Volker, why did the Organized Crime Task Force 23 in the past eschew the opportunity to include 10041 1 pornography as one of the definitions? 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Why? Maybe I 3 didn't understand. In order for it to be 4 included in the purview of the RICO laws or 5 whatever, we have to -- we have to put it in 6 there. When the -- maybe your question is why 7 wasn't it. Maybe I missed that, and I guess the 8 answer was I think it was -- frankly, at the 9 time it was plainly overlooked and, of course, 10 the issue of pornography and obscenity has 11 become a much bigger issue in the last five to 12 eight years, and I guess that's why the thought 13 is that it should also be included and because 14 of the fact that it has become an issue that has 15 become a much bigger racketeering issue and - 16 that some of the organized crime people clearly 17 have gotten involved in. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: I hope the 21 next time the Organized Crime Task Force has a 22 vacancy, that you'll consider me because I 23 overlooked this bill when it went by the first 10042 1 time. The explanation is satisfactory. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1341, by Member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly 15 Print 4958, concurrent resolution of the Senate 16 and Assembly proposing amendments to Section 1, 17 5, 6 and 8 of Article II of the Constitution. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will call the roll on the resolution. 20 Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 may we hold that a moment for Senator Gold who, 23 I believe, had a question on it? 10043 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 4 was out of the room, I understand we passed 1333 5 which had some opposition last year, but 6 apparently this year it's been supported by many 7 of the members. Please, I ask unanimous consent 8 to be recorded in the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Gold, we'll take that up in a minute. I 11 understood that you wanted to ask some questions 12 on Calendar Number 1341; it's a concurrent 13 resolution which is currently before the house. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 15 Maltese yield to a question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Maltese, do you yield? 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, was this 22 bill changed from last year? 23 SENATOR MALTESE: No, Mr. 10044 1 President. The bill was not changed from last 2 year when there were only two negative votes on 3 the bill. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I don't remember 5 the negatives. Who were they? 6 SENATOR MALTESE: The two 7 negative votes were DiCarlo and Maltese, Mr. 8 President. 9 (Laughter.) 10 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator 11 Maltese, I want the record to indicate that the 12 laughter came from your side, not mine -- not my 13 side. 14 SENATOR MALTESE: The record 15 should indicate that I joined in the laugh. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Because, Senator 17 Maltese, I admire somebody who's educable and I 18 now know that 1/36th of your side is educable. 19 Last section. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 10045 1 the results when tabulated. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 2, 3 Senators DiCarlo and Libous recorded in the 4 negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 resolution is adopted. 7 The Secretary will continue to 8 call the controversial calendar. 9 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Maziarz. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 13 would you please lay aside Calendar Number 1334, 14 and there will be an immediate meeting of the 15 Rules Committee and the Senate will stand at 16 ease. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Maziarz, before we stand at ease, we have some 19 housekeeping. Also, Senator Paterson -- Senator 20 Paterson, Senator Gold, I think, wanted to be 21 recorded in the negative - 22 SENATOR PATERSON: He certainly 23 did, Mr. President. 10046 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- on 2 Calendar Number 1333. 3 Senator Gold -- Senator Gold, may 4 I have your attention? Did you wish to be 5 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 6 1333? 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Gold 10 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 11 Number 1333. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 16 Leichter feels that Senator Gold shouldn't be 17 alone tonight and so he would like to be 18 recognized. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 23 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 10047 1 on Calendar Number 1333? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection, Senator Leichter -- and hearing no 4 objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1333. 6 Senator Sears, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR SEARS: Yes, Mr. 8 President. Calendar Number 1238, Senate Print 9 Number 4903-B, would you please remove the star, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the 12 request of the sponsor, the star will be 13 removed. The number again, Senator Sears, 14 was - 15 SENATOR SEARS: Calendar 1238. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1238. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR SEARS: Senate Print 19 Number 4903-B. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The star 21 will be removed. 22 Senator Waldon, did you wish to 23 be recognized? 10048 1 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, Mr. 2 President. I respectfully request to be 3 recorded in the negative on 13... what was the 4 next part? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Waldon 7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 8 Number 1333. 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Mr. 11 President, I would like to also be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 1333. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator 15 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 16 Calendar 1333. 17 Senator Smith. 18 SENATOR SMITH: I would also 19 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 20 negative on Calendar Number 1333. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection. Hearing no objection, Senator Smith 23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 10049 1 Number 1333. 2 Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 On behalf of Senator Holland, 6 would you please place a sponsor's star on the 7 following Calendar Numbers: 888, 889, 891, 892. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the 9 request of the sponsor, calendar stars will be 10 placed on Calendar Numbers 888, 889, 891 and 11 892. 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 On behalf of Senator Padavan, I 16 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 4185, 17 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 18 desk. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 746, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4185, an 23 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 10050 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 I now move to reconsider the vote 6 by which this bill has passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 9 bill passed. 10 The Secretary will call the roll 11 on reconsideration. 12 (The Secretary called the roll on 13 reconsideration.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I now offer up the following 20 amendments. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 amendments are received and adopted. 23 Senator Santiago, did you wish to 10051 1 register a vote? 2 Senator Maziarz. 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 4 is there any further housekeeping matters? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 6 informed by the Secretary at the desk that the 7 housekeeping has been completed. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 There will be an immediate 11 meeting of the Rules Committee and the Senate 12 will stand at ease. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 14 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 15 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 16 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 17 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. The 18 Senate will stand at ease awaiting a report of 19 the Rules Committee which will be taken up, I'm 20 informed tomorrow. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Gold. 10052 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. People have 2 been asking and maybe we can just clarify it. 3 We're at ease for the Rules Committee, but my 4 upstanding is that we're not going to do any 5 more bills tonight, is that correct? So if 6 there are some who really want to get at ease, 7 it's legitimate. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Rules 9 report is being prepared for tomorrow's 10 calendar, Senator Gold. We don't anticipate, so 11 I'm told, any additional bills being taken up 12 this evening. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr. 14 President, will you yield to one other 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: In the field of 19 your expertise, Mr. President, what time does 20 the driving range at Exit 8 close tonight? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon 22 me, Senator Gold? I didn't hear that. 23 SENATOR GOLD: That's all right. 10053 1 Senator Libous answered me. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 May the record reflect that had I 8 been here on June 12th, 1995 when this august 9 body considered Calendar 994, Senate 5019, that 10 I would have voted in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 calendar will reflect that had you been here on 13 Monday, June 12th, when Calendar Number 994 was 14 called, that you would have voted in the 15 negative and with that, the Senate stands at 16 ease awaiting the Rules report. 17 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 18 ease from 7:35 p.m. until 7:45 p.m.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 20 Spano. 21 SENATOR SPANO: Please return to 22 reports of standing committees. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 10054 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 4 following bills: 5 Senate Print 563, by Senator 6 Cook, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, 7 in relation to making certain state lands; 8 1119, by Senator Spano, an act to 9 amend the Public Health Law, in relation to the 10 extension of professional privileges; 11 1652, by Senator LaValle, an act 12 to amend the Town Law, in relation to initiation 13 of a criminal history check; 14 1985, by Senator Hoblock, an act 15 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 16 to the definition of a bell jar; 17 2615, by Senator Leibell, an act 18 in relation to authorizing the reconveyance to 19 the Lakeview Manor Community Association; 20 2677, by Senator Leibell, an act 21 authorizing the town of Southeast, Putnam County 22 to establish a road or highway; 23 2682, by Senator Leibell, an act 10055 1 to amend the Town Law, in relation to the 2 dissolution of the Lakeview Manor Park District; 3 3002-A, by Senator Johnson, an 4 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 5 to eliminating utilities as installers; 6 3915, by Senator Oppenheimer, an 7 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 8 relation to allowing the town of Rye to levy 9 taxes; 10 3966, by Senator Johnson, an act 11 in relation to granting Joseph Donnelly certain 12 service credit; 13 4252, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 14 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in 15 relation to regulating the hours of sale by a 16 winery; 17 4451-B, by Senator Velella, an 18 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 19 Law, in relation to making certain technical 20 corrections; 21 4544-A, by Senator Farley, an act 22 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules and 23 the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act, in relation 10056 1 to authorizing deposits; 2 4648, by Senator Johnson, an act 3 in relation to authorizing Perry S. Reich to 4 purchase certain retirement service credit; 5 4919, by Senator Libous, an act 6 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to extending 7 the authorization granted to the county of 8 Tioga; 9 5079, by Senator Hoblock, an act 10 to amend the lobbying act, in relation to the 11 use of 800 telephone numbers; 12 5247, by Senator Present, an act 13 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 14 authorizing the establishment of a Community 15 College Region; 16 5283, by Senator Hoffmann, an act 17 to authorize the city of Oneida, Madison County 18 to sell, transfer and convey the Oneida City 19 Hospital; 20 5442-A, by Senator Levy, an act 21 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 22 relation to establishing an advisory committee; 23 5328-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an 10057 1 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 2 extending the period for an additional one 3 percent Monroe County sales tax rate; 4 5351, by Senator Padavan, an act 5 to amend Chapter 420 of the Laws of 1991, 6 amending the Real Property Tax Law; 7 5361, by Senator Larkin, an act 8 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 9 to making technical and clarifying amendments 10 thereto; 11 5365, by Senator Stafford, an act 12 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to 13 establishing the Ovarian Cancer Information 14 Program; 15 5370, by Senator Saland, an act 16 to amend the Family Protection and Domestic 17 Violence Intervention Act of 1994; 18 5392, by the Senate Committee on 19 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 653 of the Laws 20 of 1984, amending the Social Services Law, 21 relating to certain chronic care management 22 demonstration program; 23 5412, by Senator Sears, an act to 10058 1 amend the Personal Property Law and the 2 Insurance Law, in relation to making certain 3 technical amendments; 4 5413, by Senator Sears, an act to 5 amend Chapter 1 of the Laws of 1994, amending 6 the Personal Property Law, General Obligations 7 Law, General Business Law and Vehicle and 8 Traffic Law; 9 5436, by Senator Farley, an act 10 to amend the Banking Law, in relation to 11 interstate branching; 12 4181, by Senator Galiber, an act 13 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 14 providing grants to school districts; and 15 2548, by Senator Abate, an act to 16 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in 17 relation to requiring applicants for licenses 18 and renewals to submit certificates of 19 occupancy; 20 All bills ordered directly for 21 third reading. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: Senator 23 Spano. 10059 1 SENATOR SPANO: I move that we 2 accept the report, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: All in 4 favor of accepting the report signify by saying 5 aye. 6 (Response of "Aye".) 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The report is accepted. 10 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 11 there being no further business, I make a motion 12 that we adjourn until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow 13 morning. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VOLKER: The 15 Senate is adjourned until 10:00 a.m., June 15th, 16 1995, tomorrow. 17 (Whereupon, at 7:55 p.m., the 18 Senate adjourned.) 19 20 21 22 23