Tuesday, April 16, 1996

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 16, 1996 10 3:00 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their place, the staff to find their 5 places. Ask everybody in the chamber, including 6 those in the gallery, to rise and join me in 7 saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 10 In the absence of clergy, may we 11 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed.) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Monday, April 15th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April 14th, 18 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Communications and reports from 6 state officers. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 The Chair recognizes Senator 9 Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 On page 28 -- this is on behalf 13 of Senator Sears. On page 28, I offer the 14 following amendments to Calendar 597, Senate 15 Print 5917 and I ask that that bill retain its 16 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 amendments to Calendar Number 597 are received 19 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 20 the Third Reading Calendar. 21 Senator Farley. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 23 Senator Johnson, please place a sponsor's star 1 on Calendar Number 411. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 3 Number 411 is starred at the request of the 4 sponsor. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 at this time if we could adopt the Resolution 8 Calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar. All 11 those in favor signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye".) 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The Resolution Calendar is 16 adopted. 17 Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 There is a privileged resolution 21 at the desk by Senator Mendez. I would like 22 that title be read and then move for its 23 adoption. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson, you're correct. There is a privileged 3 resolution at the desk. I'll ask the Secretary 4 to read the title. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Mendez, Legislative Resolution honoring the 7 lifetime achievements of Henry Nichols. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 question is on the resolution. All those in 10 favor signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye".) 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The resolution is adopted. 15 Senator Seward. 16 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 17 President. I believe there's a privileged 18 resolution at the desk. I would ask that the 19 title be read and the members adopt the 20 resolution. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 22 a privileged resolution at the desk. Direct the 23 Secretary to read the title. 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2 Seward, Legislative Resolution honoring Robert 3 W. Mauer upon the occasion of his designation as 4 recipient of the 1996 Citizen of the Year Award 5 by the Otsego County Chamber of Commerce. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 question is on the resolution. All those in 8 favor signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The resolution is adopted. 13 Senator Skelos, that completes 14 the resolutions we have. What's your pleasure? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 at this time if we could take up the non 17 controversial calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Ask the 19 Secretary to read the non-controversial 20 calendar. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 22 Calendar Number 18, by Senator Cook, Senate 23 Print 4875-A, an act to amend the Agriculture 1 and Markets Law, in relation to agricultural 2 practices. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 515, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2105, an 10 act to amend the Social Services Law and the 11 Public Health Law, in relation to disclosure of 12 HIV-related information. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect - 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 518, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4951-B, 22 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 23 relation to child day care. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 4 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 521, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 293, an act 13 to amend the County Law, in relation to review 14 and approval of names for rights-of-way. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the first day of 19 January. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 526, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3360, an act 5 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 6 to authorizing municipal corporations to 7 establish volunteer cemetery maintenance and 8 cleanup programs. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 530, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6123, an 21 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 22 relation to buildings that are part of urban 23 development action area projects. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 531, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6124, an 13 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 14 relation to powers of municipalities in carrying 15 out urban renewal plans. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 539, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6385, an 5 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 6 limitations of expenses of life insurance. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 611, by Senator Present, Senate Print 768, an 19 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 20 relation to eligibility for youthful offender 21 status. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first day of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Skelos, that completes 11 the calling of the non-controversial calendar. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 could you please call up Calendar Number 515, by 14 Senator Saland. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read Calendar Number 515. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 515, Senator Saland, Senate Print 2105, an act 19 to amend the Social Services Law and the Public 20 Health Law, in relation to disclosure of HIV 21 related information. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos. 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Read the last 2 section. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 6 act shall take effect 90 days after it shall 7 have become a law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could now 16 move to the controversial calendar, I believe 17 there's one, Calendar Number 18. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will -- the Secretary will read 20 Calendar Number 18. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 22 Calendar Number 18, by Senator Cook, Senate 23 Print 4875-A, an act to amend the Agriculture 1 and Markets Law, in relation to agricultural 2 practices. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 18 has 6 been requested by the Acting Minority Leader, 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 9 this bill has been debated earlier, so I won't 10 go into it in great detail, except to indicate 11 that this does not, contrary to some information 12 that's being spread about, change the regulation 13 as it relates to how pesticides or any other 14 substance will be applied. These are the 15 regulations that apply to the application of 16 pesticides. They remain in effect. 17 All this bill says is that the 18 aerial application of substances, whatever -- it 19 could be seed. It could be fertilizer. It 20 could be pesticides -- is an agricultural 21 practice and accepted agricultural practice, and 22 that the practice itself is acceptable and 23 cannot be challenged, but that doesn't change 1 the regulations that apply to the manner in 2 which pesticides specifically are applied to the 3 licensure for applying, for the inspection of 4 how it's applied or any of the other regulations 5 that relate thereto. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 I don't want to take up much 11 time. Senator Cook and I debated this bill at 12 some length earlier this session. We have an 13 issue of aerial spraying and we also have an 14 issue of litigation for those who could be 15 afflicted by anything caused by aerial 16 spraying. 17 A number of members voted against 18 this bill. In fact, I think my work in this 19 chamber should be reflected by the disposition 20 of this bill earlier this session. So I will 21 just spend the rest of whatever time I would 22 have allotted to just reflect on that magic 23 moment, and we would like a slow roll call on 1 this bill. 2 SENATOR COOK: Would you lay the 3 bill aside. I think that the Minority has some 4 very important things they want to do today, and 5 I wouldn't want to interfere with it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 will be laid aside for the day. 8 Senator Skelos, that completes 9 the calling of the controversial calendar. 10 Senator Onorato, why do you 11 rise? 12 SENATOR ONORATO: Did we record 13 the vote on Calendar Number 18? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 was laid aside, sir. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Okay. Thank 17 you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: May we please 21 take up motions to discharge. 22 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1 Tully, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR TULLY: Would Senator 3 Skelos yield to a question? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Senator 5 Tully. 6 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 7 would you ask Senator Skelos whether or not the 8 matters we're about to discuss on the motions to 9 discharge are substantive matters or procedural 10 matters? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Skelos, do you wish to make a statement on that 13 matter? 14 SENATOR SKELOS: In my opinion, 15 they are politically procedural. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would the 19 Deputy Majority Leader - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson -- Senator Paterson, as the Acting 22 Minority Leader, we have a number of motions to 23 discharge. At the top of my list, I have one by 1 Senator Waldon. I know he's not in the 2 chamber. Is there some procedure, some order 3 that you would like us to take these up? 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. Thank 5 you, Mr. President. 6 Would you please recognize 7 Senator Dollinger, Senator Hoffmann, Senator 8 Leichter and then Senator Waldon. That's the 9 batting order. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You said 11 Senator Dollinger, Senator Hoffmann, Senator 12 Leichter and then Senator Waldon, is that 13 correct? You've got Senator Waldon batting 14 cleanup? 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Batting clean 16 up. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 18 Senator Dollinger, you have two motions to 19 discharge. Which one would you like read 20 first? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 22 President. Before we start, I would like the 23 record to reflect that I have been described as 1 the speedy lead-off hitter. In the first time 2 of my personal career, I have earned that claim, 3 Mr. President. So I would like to thank my 4 Deputy Minority Leader for giving me that. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: "Fantasy" 6 is the word of the day, I think, Senator 7 Dollinger. Which one would you like to take 8 up? 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The one on 10 the inaugural committee, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Which 12 would be Senate 4640, I believe. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's 14 correct, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Dollinger, Senate Print 4640, an act to amend 19 the Election Law, in relation to contributions 20 to inaugural committees. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, I would move that the bill be 23 discharged from committee. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 2 like to be recognized on the motion? 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, please. 4 On the motion to discharge. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 6 recognizes Senator Dollinger on the motion to 7 discharge. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 9 President, there are few times, I guess, in 10 the - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Dollinger, excuse me just a minute. There's a 13 great deal of noise and disruption going on on 14 the floor. Can we show our fellow Senators some 15 respect? 16 Thank you for the interruption, 17 Senator Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 There are few times in this body 21 every year when the public's confidence in 22 government and our credibility among the voters 23 is put to a test. The bill that I seek to 1 discharge from committee today is a bill that I 2 think will go a long way to re-establishing the 3 public's confidence in its government. 4 What this bill seeks to do is to 5 require that any inauguration committee be 6 treated like every other campaign committee in 7 New York State, that it be required to disclose 8 to the public where it raises its money and how 9 it spends its money, and that it's subscribed to 10 the rules that we require of everyone that 11 participates in the political process by giving 12 money; that it's subscribed to the rules on 13 limits on campaign contributions on an annual 14 basis; that it contain the types of disclosure 15 of information that anyone running for office is 16 now currently required to give, but I don't 17 think that I need to speak persuasively on this 18 floor to tell you why this bill ought to come 19 out of committee and be a part of the law of the 20 state of New York. 21 Let me just give you a sample of 22 the editorial judgments of newspapers in New 23 York State. Let their voice ring out and 1 perhaps you'll understand why this bill should 2 become a part of New York law. 3 From the Post Standard in 4 Syracuse dated December 13th, 1995, it describes 5 the Pataki administration talking about ethical 6 propriety is a little like Prince Charles 7 talking about fidelity. Neither is known for 8 their expertise on the subjects. Ethics require 9 information to be revealed, not covered up. 10 Ethics require promises to be kept, not broken. 11 Ethics requires telling the truth. 12 As you all know, the Pataki 13 administration had an inaugural party in January 14 of 1995, frankly, in my judgment as anyone who 15 wins the office of the state of New York is 16 entitled in their discretion to decide to throw 17 a party for the people of this state. What I 18 believe, however, they are not entitled to do is 19 to ignore all the campaign finance disclosure 20 laws when they raise money for that party, when 21 the appearance of influenced peddling is 22 widespread in the wake of all of that 23 fund-raising. To this date, we don't know how 1 much was raised. From my point of view, it's 2 not for lack of my own trying. 3 I started writing letters to the 4 Governor of this state on April 24th, 1995. I 5 asked him to fulfill a promise that he made in 6 January of 1995, to simply abide by the laws of 7 this state and to disclose of amounts that have 8 been contributed to his inaugural committee, how 9 much had been contributed, how much had been 10 spent, who gave it and who got it. A very 11 simple question, one that this body in passing 12 finance disclosure laws has always agreed has 13 been in the public interest. 14 The Post Standard told you that 15 Governor Pataki talking about ethics is like 16 Prince Charles talking about fidelity. What 17 about this comment from Russ Davis writing in 18 Utica? "Pataki leads the most ethically 19 bankrupt administration since the days of Warren 20 Harding. He's doing more stonewalling than 21 Richard Nixon. One of those presidents died in 22 disgrace because he was an out-of-the-loop nice 23 guy in a flock of 'gimme' birds. The other had 1 to resign in disgrace for knowing the truth but 2 peddling lies. The facts make it clear 3 something is rotten in Albany. It's time to 4 quit" and, again, they use this word, "covering 5 up". "It's not a case of good or bad but which 6 evil. Has Pataki been spinning fiction with his 7 protestations of the ignorant innocence or has 8 he been out of the loop while state government 9 has been up for sale? Enough games. Enough 10 cutesy, little sound bites. Enough fiction. 11 It's time the people learned the truth." 12 How do they get to that truth? 13 We passed a law that requires inaugural 14 committees to disclose where they received their 15 money and how they spent it, which is the 16 subject of this bill. 17 What about the Albany Times Union 18 in responding to the Governor's -- the 19 disclosure in the New York Times about how 20 campaign finances or how campaign contributors 21 had given to the inaugural committee? They 22 pointed out that the explanations offered by the 23 Governor from the second floor don't wash, when 1 they said the Times had no trouble tracking down 2 some of the donors whose generosity exceeded 3 state limits on campaign gifts. One 4 pharmaceutical company gave $25,000, five times 5 the campaign contribution. That same company 6 had $1.7 million worth of contracts with the 7 state for medical products and services. Two 8 banks gave generously as well, and the state 9 just happens to use them for pension deposits 10 and low interest loan programs. "With one big 11 name contributor after another being identified 12 in the press", the Times Union went on to say, 13 "The Pataki administration might argue that it 14 doesn't matter whether the books were open or 15 not. That won't wash either. A complete 16 listing is in order if the public is to judge 17 where the administration has compromised 18 itself. Another explanation is also due why 19 some contributors were so grossly allowed to 20 exceed state guidelines. The most important 21 explanation of all has to do with the Governor 22 himself, namely, why he promised an accounting 23 for a fund that sponsored people's reception, 1 only to shut those same people out when that 2 accounting was due." 3 The Governor has promised to 4 produce this information. He knows it's in the 5 public interest to promise this information, but 6 yet he stonewalls the efforts of this 7 Legislature and our colleagues in the Assembly 8 to find out where those funds came from. 9 In the Daily News, April 1st, 10 1996, editorial writers continued to argue for 11 the passage of this bill and the disclosure of 12 that information. In describing Governor 13 Pataki's refusal to publicly name the donors, 14 the Daily News noted "The reasons have changed 15 with the seasons. First thing Pataki said the 16 list was confidential because the Governor had 17 to be shielded from knowing who was on it, lest 18 he feel obliged to pay favorites. What is he a 19 mushroom; he has to be kept in the dark? Then 20 came the excuse that the donors were promised 21 confidentiality to shield them from harassment 22 from Pataki's political enemies. Next, the dog 23 ate the list? Pataki must stop the silly 1 defenses and come clean. He must release the 2 donors' names, show how much was raised, how 3 much was spent, how it was spent and much -- how 4 much is left." 5 One other comment from the Press 6 and Sun Bulletin. This is back in November of 7 1995. "The inaugural bash used no government 8 funds and Pataki was not obligated to apply 9 campaign contribution limits to it." I debate 10 that, but that's what the editorial says, "but 11 the Governor's instincts were correct when he 12 promised to abide by the limits and reveal the 13 campaign contributors. When the Governor or any 14 politicians accept large donations, the public 15 is bound to wonder if his administration will 16 give donors interests special consideration." 17 That's the issue that this bill 18 presents. Is the government of the state of New 19 York for sale? Is it for sale by George Pataki 20 and his administration or by anyone else? 21 Whenever anyone gives their money to a public 22 official, the people of this state are entitled 23 to know who gave it and they're entitled to know 1 what it was spent for so that they can trace the 2 pattern of those funds and assure themselves 3 that this government is not for sale. 4 I think we need to send a message 5 to the second floor that we in this chamber have 6 a high standard of ethics, that we in this 7 chamber who have to report our contributions, 8 who have to give an accounting of where our 9 funds go, that we subscribe to an ethical 10 standard that every elected official in this 11 state should subscribe to, whether they're in 12 this chamber, as George Pataki was two years 13 ago, or whether they sit on the second floor as 14 the Governor of this state. 15 I'm afraid, my colleagues, that 16 the odor of potential corruption that this 17 failure on the part of the Governor to realize 18 has permeated this state. Look at the editorial 19 writers and what they'll tell you is that they 20 can smell it in Syracuse. They can smell it in 21 Utica. They can smell it in Buffalo. They can 22 smell it in Rochester. They can smell it in New 23 York City. I have urged this Governor to reveal 1 the names of these donors, to make it available 2 to the public. He has refused to do so. 3 The time has come for the members 4 of this chamber to stand up and say that we have 5 an ethical standard that we will not permit any 6 departures from. We will not permit the 7 Governor to depart from it. We will not permit 8 any elected official in this state. If we fail 9 to pass this law, I'm afraid that the message 10 that we send is that there is one person in this 11 state who is above the law. It is our sworn 12 duties as members of this body to ensure that 13 that never happens, that we all abide by the 14 same laws and the same standards, and that we 15 don't send to the public a confusing message 16 about how certain laws apply to them, but if 17 you're rich enough and powerful enough to be 18 elected the Governor of the state of New York, 19 you are exempt from those laws. 20 It seems to me that that would be 21 a tragedy for democracy, a tragedy for the 22 people of this state and destroy the public's 23 confidence in this government. I believe that 1 this bill embodies nothing less, and that in 2 order to restore that confidence, this bill 3 should come before this house today and should 4 become a part of our law, so that we can march 5 down the road to a better informed, better 6 enlightened public that has confidence that its 7 state government is not being bought. 8 Mr. President, I urge that this 9 bill be considered by the house and that the 10 motion to discharge be approved. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 12 recognizes Senator Gold on the motion. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 14 much, Mr. President. 15 Mr. President, first of all, I 16 ought to be very clear. There's no doubt in my 17 mind that an individual -- forget the title 18 "Governor" -- that an individual named George 19 Pataki is an honest man. I happen to believe 20 that. I also happen to believe that there are 21 other honest people and that whatever the game 22 is or the guidelines, it should apply to all as 23 Senator Dollinger pointed out. 1 So I understand that in the 2 nation's capital, the junior Senator from New 3 York has suggested that there be certain 4 guidelines as it applies to an investigation 5 which involves the President, which guidelines 6 are completely different than the guidelines he 7 wanted when the United States Senate and others 8 were looking into matters that he was involved 9 with. Without judging the junior Senator, it 10 seems to me that guidelines ought to apply in 11 cases the same way. 12 I started out by saying that I 13 believe personally knowing an individual named 14 George Pataki, that I believe that individual to 15 be honest. I think that individual makes a big 16 mistake when you are honest and you don't give 17 the public the total perception that it deserves 18 of the honesty of a situation, and it is not 19 enough to say that I am an honest person and, 20 therefore, you should not raise the questions. 21 I do not think that is fair. I think that when 22 you are in public life, people are allowed to 23 ask you questions that the average citizen may 1 decide to answer or not answer, and that is the 2 issue of the bill. 3 The issue of this bill is not the 4 personal honesty of an individual, but whether 5 or not the public has the right to not only have 6 an honest public servant but to feel and 7 perceive that the person is honest and, 8 therefore, what this bill does is just give an 9 assurance to the public that they deserve. 10 Now, this is very much in line 11 with what Senator Dollinger and I and others 12 have cried for for years in terms of the 13 Legislature as a whole. We are very delighted 14 that after our urging and pushing and pushing, 15 we finally got you to the well and you are going 16 to release the numbers, financial numbers of the 17 New York State Senate. You promised to do that 18 for the first three months of this year and have 19 it as a continuing basis. That was years of 20 pulling and pushing, and we tried to explain to 21 you that we weren't looking to make these 22 numbers public because we were calling you 23 dishonest. We wanted the numbers public because 1 the public has a right to see the numbers, and 2 if they are honest -- and in the case of a 3 governor, I certainly hope they're honest. I 4 certainly believe they're honest, but in the 5 case of a governor, let the public go to sleep 6 at night without there being stories questioning 7 whether or not the state's for sale, whether he 8 is favoring contributors. I don't believe it is 9 and I don't believe he does. 10 We've had all -- most of us at 11 any rate in this chamber -- had the opportunity 12 to serve with George Pataki, and while he was 13 not my druthers for Governor on the basis of 14 political philosophy, I never had a bad word to 15 say about him as a human being or as to his 16 morality, and all that this bill does, it's an 17 urging on the part of Senator Dollinger, for 18 every citizen of this state to be able to go to 19 sleep at night with the same faith in the 20 honesty and integrity in the Governor as I have 21 and as I assume everybody has. 22 So let's not divert the issue. I 23 would support this bill if it was the exact 1 similar situation and Mario Cuomo was the 2 Governor or anybody was the Governor. The issue 3 is the public's right to know and who the 4 particular player is, be it George Pataki, be it 5 Bill Clinton or Alphonse D'Amato, you either 6 have to take the position that the public has a 7 right to know in all of these situations or not. 8 Those of us on this side of the 9 aisle are going to vote for the public's right 10 to know. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- would 16 Senator Gold yield to a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Gold, do you yield to question from Senator 19 Dollinger? 20 SENATOR GOLD: I didn't do it 21 right? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Did you know 3 that President Bill Clinton, who had an 4 inaugural party, released the names of the 5 people who donated to the inaugural event that 6 he held in Washington and also demonstrated 7 exactly where all of the funds went do? Were 8 you aware of that? 9 SENATOR GOLD: I wouldn't have 10 expected anything less. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Were you 12 aware that Rudy Giuliani who was elected mayor 13 of the city of New York, a Republican from New 14 York State, also did exactly the same thing, 15 that he held an inaugural event and that he 16 raised money for the inaugural event and that he 17 disclosed who gave him the money and where it 18 was spent? Were you aware that he followed that 19 pattern as well? 20 SENATOR GOLD: I don't agree with 21 everything that the mayor does, but he's does 22 some good things, and following the example of 23 the President was one of them. 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would you be 2 surprised that Christie Whitman, the Republican 3 Governor of the state of New Jersey, had an 4 inaugural event, raised monies for the 5 inaugural, took -- gave the public an accounting 6 of exactly where she raised the money and where 7 it was spent? 8 SENATOR GOLD: In that case, I'm 9 shocked but I'm delighted. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would it seem 11 to you like that was a pretty good trend to 12 follow? 13 SENATOR GOLD: I think it's a 14 terrific trend, and I'm glad you asked those 15 questions. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 17 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 18 motion? 19 Senator Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 we had a very clear indication why this bill is 22 necessary, and if you take a look at the history 23 of what has happened in regard to the Pataki 1 inaugural committee and the commitments that 2 were made to the public, when that inaugural 3 committee was formed, a promise was made that 4 all contributions would be made public, and 5 that's the practice, I think, that the public 6 expected, certainly one that the public demanded 7 and clearly one that the public has a right to. 8 However, as time passed, there 9 was no disclosure. When Senator Dollinger - 10 and I think he deserves great credit for having 11 served the public in pursuing this issue - 12 asked, "Where are the records", he was 13 stonewalled. When others asked, they were 14 stonewalled. When the Assembly asked, the 15 Assembly was stonewalled. The Assembly finally 16 had to issue subpoenas. I thought one of the 17 more amusing things that has happened in the 18 Capitol in some time was that, I believe it was 19 two weeks ago one of the assemblyman, I think it 20 was Assemblyman Tonko, said that there is 21 evidence that some of the money from the 22 inaugural committee went to pay off campaign 23 expenses, expenses of the Pataki campaign, and 1 the Governor's spokesperson said, "That's 2 outrageous. It's totally false". So the press 3 said, "Well, would you tell us why it's false? 4 Just show us the record." "Oh, we're not going 5 to do that." Well, that shows you the 6 importance of a bill like this to overcome this 7 sort of stonewalling and this refusal to be 8 honest with the public. 9 I don't know whether it was 10 Justice Brandeis or Justice Douglas that said 11 that the best disinfectant is openness, is 12 public disclosure, and that's all really that 13 this bill asks for. I think that it's an 14 accepted principle of American Democratic life 15 and American electoral life that the public has 16 a right to know who contributes to campaigns, 17 who contributes to public officials, so that the 18 public can judge if there's been some undue 19 influence or something else which the public 20 should know and which may explain why particular 21 action was taken by the public. 22 In this instance, we have a 23 departure. We have a refusal to abide by the 1 rules, a refusal to keep promises. One can only 2 conjecture why this is being done, why this 3 steadfast refusal to make these records public. 4 Is it a cover up? If so, why? What has 5 happened to the money? Why not make it public. 6 Is there something to hide here? The public has 7 a right to know, and we as legislators have an 8 obligation to see that inaugural committees are 9 covered by the laws requiring disclosure of 10 campaign contributions. 11 The Governor has an obligation to 12 make that public, and we as legislators have an 13 obligation to see that the law does not have 14 this sort of an exception, but that inaugural 15 committees are covered. You can stonewall only 16 that long, but if you study the history of 17 American politics, eventually you're going to 18 end off much worse than if you came forth 19 initially and said, "Here it is", and as 20 legislators, the Republicans in this house can 21 stonewall. You can stand with your Governor and 22 tell the public you've got no right to this 23 information. We thumb our nose at you. We 1 don't have to keep our promises, but I'll tell 2 you, you will end up paying for it. 3 I hope that you will let this do 4 the right thing. Let this bill out for a vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 6 any other Senator wishing to speak on the motion 7 to discharge? 8 (There was no response.) 9 Hearing none, then a vote in the 10 affirmative is a vote to discharge the bill from 11 committee. A vote in the negative is a vote to 12 defeat the motion and leave the bill in the 13 committee. The question then is on the motion 14 to discharge. All those in favor signify by 15 saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Senator Paterson, why do you 18 rise? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 we would like a party vote in the affirmative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 19, nays 2 37. Party vote. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 motion is defeated. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 just for the record, since today is going to be 8 "Motion to Discharge Day", the one day we all 9 look forward to every year, the Minority has 10 informed us that Senate 2553, Senate 5794-B and 11 Senate 6645, those -- the motions to discharge 12 on those bills will not be brought this year. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 14 you, Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Velella, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR VELELLA: If I may, just 19 as a notice to my colleagues, I'm going to be 20 listening to a lot of the debate on the motions 21 to discharge and just in case anyone's in their 22 office, I would like them to know that there is 23 a possibility there may be some slow roll calls 1 called on some of these motions since they are 2 of such importance. I'm sure all the Minority 3 would like to be present and be in the chamber 4 to vote in support of their colleagues and be 5 here to be recognized as to where they stand on 6 the issue. So there may be some slow roll 7 calls. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 10 you, Senator Velella. 11 The Secretary will call the next 12 motion to discharge. I believe it's Senate 13 6456, by Senator Dollinger. 14 Senator Paterson, why do you 15 rise? 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 actually, Senator Dollinger would be willing to 18 wait, and if you would now -- before you do 19 that, how did the last motion turn out? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 recorded vote was ayes 19, the nays 37. Party 22 votes were recorded in both. The motion was 23 defeated by a narrow margin. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 2 Well, we'll keep working. Would 3 you please recognize Senator Hoffmann. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Hoffmann, do you wish to have your first motion 6 to discharge read at this time? 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes, I do, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will then read. I informed, Senator 11 Hoffmann, that you wish to take them in order, 12 Senate 2069, Senate 2070, Senate 2072, Senate 13 2073, Senate 2074 and then conclude with 2071, 14 is that correct? 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: That's 16 correct, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 18 right. The Secretary will read the motion to 19 discharge on Senate 2069. 20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 21 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2069, an act to amend the 22 Public Officers Law, in relation to exempting 23 political committees, conferences and caucuses 1 from the provisions of Open Meetings Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 3 recognizes Senator Hoffmann on the motion to 4 discharge. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 I have been looking forward to 8 this opportunity for two years now. Some of you 9 may remember that I did not introduce these 10 motions a year ago, giving the new Governor and 11 the new Majority Leader an opportunity to bring 12 about some of the changes that we had heard 13 about during the campaign that preceded the 14 beginning of this term, but I do believe that 15 the time has come to introduce these motions 16 once again. 17 I would like to thank Senator 18 Velella at the outset for his very kind 19 suggestion to those members who are a little bit 20 tardy coming to the chamber today. I appreciate 21 that. I too would very much like to see a slow 22 roll call or two this afternoon, maybe more, and 23 I thank you for your admonition to anybody who's 1 within the sound of our voices and hope that 2 they will come posthaste. 3 I have to note, however, that the 4 Acting Majority Leader on the floor spoke with a 5 little bit of sarcasm, if I'm not mistaken in 6 saying this is a day that we all look forward 7 to. I don't want to misquote Senator Skelos, 8 and he is a loyal member of this chamber and a 9 very hard working Senator, but I did detect just 10 a little bit of cynicism in stating that you 11 were looking forward to this afternoon, and it 12 saddens me to hear that because, as a duly 13 elected member of this Senate, this is virtually 14 the only opportunity that I have, constrained as 15 it is, to bring forward these motions, and I've 16 received widespread support, as have some of my 17 other colleagues who are co-sponsors with me, 18 from organizations, from individuals, from 19 newspapers all across the state, and to be 20 forced into a narrow time framework, into an 21 arcane parliamentary procedure that only allows 22 me the opportunity to request that the bills be 23 discharged from committees in which they are 1 entombed is insulting enough without having to 2 have the added admonition that this is somehow 3 an ordeal that other people must endure. 4 My right of free speech and, in 5 fact, the right of the 300,000 people in Central 6 New York that I represent for free speech and 7 adequate representation is severely curtailed by 8 the way this Legislature conducts its business, 9 and that's why I feel compelled to bring these 10 issues forward again this year -- or to attempt 11 to discharge them from committee. 12 I want to say at the outset that 13 I had a wonderful sense of future hope and 14 optimism today when I sat in, the first for me 15 and only the third for the state Conference 16 Committee between both houses, for approximately 17 two hours this morning under the wonderful 18 chairmanship of Senator Cook of the Education 19 Committee in this house and Assemblyman Sanders 20 from the Assembly. A group of about 15 or 16 of 21 us Senators and Assembly members met to try to 22 hammer out differences between the two houses' 23 bills which deal with the right of small cities 1 in New York State to vote upon their school 2 budgets. 3 There are a myriad of differences 4 between the two bills. There are also 5 differences of opinion between most of us who 6 sat in that conference room today, and yet we 7 had a wonderful give and take. We were able to 8 roll up our sleeves, as Assemblyman Sanders 9 said, and talk in a meaningful way about the 10 rights of the small cities to either have the 11 vote or to opt out of voting as some may choose 12 to, what type of issues would be covered under 13 contingency budgets, whether or not there should 14 be a triggering mechanism like a cost of living 15 increase, at which point a vote would be 16 enacted. Otherwise, there would be an opting 17 out provision for some localities. All of this 18 we could discuss without ever once hearing the 19 word "Majority" or "Minority" or "Republican" or 20 "Democrat", and in 12 years in this 21 Legislature, that was probably the most 22 refreshing experience I have ever had, and I 23 believe that it is the way that all of our 1 committees should run. This should not be some 2 crazy experiment. This should be the way in 3 which we do our business all the time. We have 4 the committees. In fact, we have very capable 5 chairmen and chairwomen of virtually all of the 6 committees and members on both sides of the 7 aisle with expertise, but yet in this house, in 8 this Legislature, all of the principal 9 decision-making continues to take place behind 10 closed doors, in rooms in which people are 11 organized under a political banner. It is the 12 closed door party conference which is the 13 principal decision-making arena in New York 14 State government. More often than not, it is in 15 the dead of night. 16 How many times have I been given 17 assurances that black was white, that red was 18 green, that yellow was blue at a 2:00 a.m., 3:00 19 a.m. or 4:00 a.m. meeting in the Democratic 20 Conference Room down the hall, only to find out 21 a few hours later that, in fact, that was not 22 the case at all, and then we were all rushed 23 into the Senate chamber with barely time for the 1 ink to dry on bills and forced to vote on 2 measures that we had little knowledge of and 3 certainly had no time to validate. 4 Probably one of the most 5 offensive examples in recent memory was a bill 6 that was presented to us as a debt reform 7 measure. A few years ago we were told that the 8 bond raters liked it, that the comptroller loved 9 it, everybody was on board, and that it really 10 wouldn't cause any more new debt for the state. 11 I voted against it and then stayed up all 12 through the night trying to figure it out. The 13 next day one the first people who called me in 14 response to the FAX that I sent out with a more 15 thorough analysis than the one that I had 16 received before the bill came up came from the 17 comptroller at that time, Ned Regan who said 18 "thank you for figuring out what this means. I 19 think this is terrible." I said, "Ned, I was 20 told at 2:00 a.m. today that you just loved 21 this." "Oh, no. Nobody ever talked to me", but 22 we were in a closed door party conference. No 23 press, no public, no comptroller. I doubt that 1 he even knew we were meeting then on this 2 measure, and until we change that way of doing 3 business, the people of this state are going to 4 continue to be ill-served. It is the committees 5 where we should have this orderly discussion of 6 the important issues of this state, and in the 7 beginning of this term, it looked like we were 8 headed in that direction. 9 Senator Bruno did a number of 10 wonderful things, and I -- I still remember the 11 great sense of excitement in this chamber that I 12 and everyone else felt when he took that seat in 13 which Senator Skelos now stands. He rose on the 14 floor and he, in a most sentimental and 15 passionate way, complimented his family, 16 extolling virtues he learned from his father who 17 he described as a uneducated laborer. I don't 18 remember exactly the characterization he made, 19 but from his heart, he thanked his family for 20 teaching him the values of this country that 21 allowed him to rise to that position of success, 22 and then with no fanfare at all, our new 23 Majority Leader introduced a rule for the -- a 1 resolution, I believe, for the -- for this body 2 that would eliminate the late night sessions. 3 The language that he chose was the same language 4 that I had had for years in one of these 5 measures that I'm attempting to bring forward 6 today, and we just passed it. It showed the 7 power and the commitment of a new leader in this 8 chamber to change to reform and to fairness, to 9 good government because, of course, we don't 10 make good legislation, we don't make good 11 decisions. A lot of us can't even keep our eyes 12 open at 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 a.m., and I can 13 remember times when we worked literally around 14 the clock for three days straight. At the end 15 of that third day, I think probably most of us 16 were ready to be checked into some place for 17 closer evaluation and we have, in fact, seen 18 members taken out of here by ambulance because 19 exhaustion or other physical problems brought on 20 by that duress, but Senator Bruno, in his 21 wisdom, showed a willingness to change that. 22 This year it became part of our 23 permanent rules. I would hope that when we get 1 to that measure as a bill in a few minutes, that 2 we will be able to vote to make it a permanent 3 law, or at least let it pass this chamber and go 4 to the Assembly so it will become a law of this 5 state, but there are other areas where Senator 6 Bruno also demonstrated some wonderful openness, 7 and the newspapers were full of stories giving 8 him credit for moving forward. "Bruno moves to 9 open the process" from the Legislative Gazette. 10 "Bruno's proposal: Victory for Reform", this 11 from the Observer Dispatch in Utica, New York 12 back in December of 1994, shortly after the 13 announcement that he was to be the new Majority 14 Leader. Said "There is hope now for long needed 15 reforms under Senator Joseph Bruno, who will 16 become Senate Majority Leader next month", and 17 then it quotes Senator Bruno saying "We're in a 18 new era. I represent a change. Governor Pataki 19 represents a change, and I think people have a 20 right to fuller disclosure of where their money 21 goes", and the newspaper went on to compliment 22 him for that wonderful insight into what the 23 voters, in fact, wanted, and then the Herald 1 American also extolled Senator Bruno in 1994 2 back in December, saying "There's new hope for 3 reform in the state Legislature. New Yorkers 4 must urge their legislators to keep the momentum 5 going", and then it praises Senator Bruno for 6 making changes. It says, "Even though they are 7 small enough, there is movement. We are getting 8 off dead center. The last year there has been a 9 complete turnover in state government 10 leadership. There will be no better opportunity 11 than right now for overhauling the machinery of 12 state government. Legislators must not waste 13 it", but I'm afraid as we come to the close of 14 this term, this legislative term and we come to 15 the close of this session, that we have, in 16 fact, wasted it. We have squandered this 17 wonderful opportunity to bring about true and 18 abiding reform in this state, and I would ask 19 Senator Bruno to reflect back on the momentum 20 that he had going in as Majority leader and see 21 if it's possible to redirect some of those 22 energies so that before we leave here, we can do 23 justice to the people of this state and show 1 what it is that we're capable of. 2 I want to acknowledge that I feel 3 frustrated at having to do this, after seven 4 years, these bills have never moved from 5 committee. I didn't introduce them last year. 6 In the first year I introduced them but I didn't 7 attempt to discharge them from committee. In 8 the first year that I introduced them, I didn't 9 employ the discharge motions because I just went 10 through the ordinary process, but five times I 11 have tried to bring them to the floor and five 12 times I have experienced defeat, but there's no 13 one who understands better what it means to 14 carry an issue over a number of years than 15 Senator Volker, and I applaud Senator Volker for 16 his tenacity. Over 17 years, I believe, he 17 introduced and spoke eloquently on the need for 18 death penalty restoration in New York State and 19 for 17 years, various governors vetoed the 20 measure that passed this house under Senator 21 Volker's sponsorship, but that did not 22 discourage Senator Volker, and I will not be 23 discouraged. It's disheartening, but I will try 1 to maintain the enthusiasm expected of me by the 2 people who have sent me here to work for them. 3 Not one of them has ever written to me or talked 4 to me about abandoning this effort. Instead, I 5 get increasing amounts of support. I get vocal 6 admonitions to keep up the fight, and they 7 recognize that it is a fight, and they ask what 8 they can do to help. 9 The New York State Grange stands 10 out as one of the more stalwart organizations 11 squarely behind this effort, and I am reminded 12 of how it is that the Grange played a role in 13 even getting these bills into bill form. I 14 spoke to the Grange a few years ago back in 15 1990. I had served at that point a couple of 16 offices -- a couple of terms, and I was invited 17 by the legislative committee of the state Grange 18 to address them in Cortland, New York. People 19 from all over the state had traveled to the 20 Grange at their own expense for this annual 21 meeting. I would guess the median age would 22 have been somewhere close to 70. People live in 23 small towns in order to be members of the 1 Grange, for the most part, and many of them have 2 an agricultural background, not all. If you 3 were to take a sampling of the people in that 4 room along political affiliation, I would 5 imagine it was overwhelmingly Republican, but I 6 felt very comfortable with the Grange back in 7 February of 1990 in Cortland, and I explained 8 when I was asked to give my speech how things 9 worked in Albany, and I didn't really pull any 10 punches. I gave them a little more in-depth 11 knowledge about how things worked than they had 12 perhaps had heard before from other legislators 13 who had spoken to them in previous years. 14 There was one issue that was very 15 topical to them at that time. Because they come 16 from rural areas, they're very concerned about 17 the fact that rural areas are often targeted by 18 state commissions and special bodies empowered 19 to deal with issues of hazardous waste or low 20 level radioactive waste and eventually probably 21 high level radioactive waste, and Cortland 22 County had been selected by the Low Level 23 Radioactive Waste Commission as the repository 1 of low level radioactive waste at that time, and 2 it was a big mystery how this commission was 3 even created, who they were, through whose 4 authority they had been empowered to select 5 Cortland. I did the research, and it was not 6 easy to find out how this low level radioactive 7 waste commission was created. I discovered that 8 it was one of those last night of session 9 concoctions that came about in a deal between 10 the two houses of the Legislature and the 11 Governor's office. It was a way of shifting the 12 responsibility away from the Legislature and 13 away from the administration for one of the more 14 difficult decisions. You created an independent 15 body to do the dirty work and then you don't 16 take any blame at election time. This is a 17 pretty common practice in the political arena. 18 There are pass masters at it in Washington as 19 well, but I truly didn't know anything about how 20 this body had been created. I had no 21 recollection of ever having voted on it, but yet 22 I knew that I had voted on virtually every bill 23 that had come up at the end of that session. So 1 when I found out how it worked, I told the 2 people in that room what it was they had done 3 and I said, You can't blame the commission 4 alone. You have to blame us. You must blame 5 your state legislators because we must take 6 responsibility for our actions. 7 I then had a question from 8 somebody in the audience. I remember what he 9 looked like. He was an older gentleman. He was 10 tall, very distinguished and he was very angry 11 when he got up. He said, "Now that we 12 understand better what's wrong in Albany, what 13 are you going to do to fix it and how are we 14 going to be able to help you?" I had really not 15 thought before about my own personal 16 responsibility to fix things in Albany. I 17 thought that explaining what was wrong and 18 asking other people to help apply some pressure 19 from time to time was probably an adequate task, 20 but I took to heart what the man said and the 21 other people who speak to me at the end of that 22 meeting at the Grange, and I told them that I 23 would consider the possibility of introducing a 1 series of bills that would be a blueprint for 2 reform if I could figure out ones that would, 3 without taking up a huge volume, simply outline 4 what could be done to make things better in our 5 state Legislature, bills that would create 6 accountability, bills that would allow openness 7 and fairness, and then I said if things don't 8 fit easily into bill form, perhaps there are 9 internal rule changes that I should propose as 10 well. I'll see what I can do, and if you can 11 help me, we may be able to make some changes. 12 A few months later, we came up 13 with a one-page -- because I believe everything 14 important should fit on one page -- a one-page 15 list of measures that would reform state 16 government. It's a relatively modest package. 17 For somebody who's been here for 12 years, I 18 have not introduced too many bills and the 19 history of the passage on these bills is a 20 pretty sorry one, but I introduced six bills 21 that we will now attempt to discharge from 22 committee that would begin the process of 23 changing the way we operate so that we would not 1 have to be embarrassed about some of the 2 horrible decisions that are made by this state 3 government. 4 The Grange embraced these 5 issues. I spoke at Grange meetings all over the 6 state. I was suddenly asked to attend Granges 7 all the way from Long Island to the Jamestown 8 area. I visited with Granges. I visited with 9 business groups. The issue caught on far beyond 10 any of my expectations, and before a year had 11 passed, the organization supporting this reform 12 agenda included the All County Taxpayer 13 Associations, Change New York, the New York 14 State Farm Bureau, the Greater Syracuse 15 Association of Realtors, Greater Syracuse 16 Chamber of Commerce, the League of Women Voters 17 of New York State, the Manufacturers Association 18 of Central New York, Mohawk Valley Building and 19 Construction Trades, NYPIRG, New York Citizens 20 for a Sound Economy, the New York Newspaper 21 Publishers Association, New York State Grange, 22 the New York State Taxpayers Alliance, 23 Incorporated, the Onondaga County Federation of 1 Sportsman's Clubs, Tack Pack, the United 2 Transportation Union and dozens of other 3 business, labor and good government groups. 4 None of them have rescinded their support for 5 these measures. Many of them continue to write 6 and to voice their frustration and their desire 7 to see these measures or better, deeper, more 8 meaningful measures enacted. 9 So I feel compelled to stand here 10 today, even though I had been told well in 11 advance that this is a futile effort and even 12 though the initial announcement that we were 13 even doing discharge motions was greeted by 14 cynicism from the opposite side of the aisle, I 15 do believe in my heart that it is possible to 16 bring about this change, and that there are 17 people out there in this state who will continue 18 to make their voices heard. 19 Many of those people have spoken 20 out in just the last few days. There are 21 newspaper editorials -- the Watertown Times 22 spoke out today -- or yesterday in an editorial 23 saying "These measures are sensible and fair and 1 the New York State Legislature would do well to 2 adopt them in the same name of progressive 3 government. It is time to move forward with 4 legislative reforms that the public supports 5 and, indeed, demands." 6 The Syracuse Post Standard stated 7 very eloquently that it was time for these 8 measures to pass and then it went on to very 9 specifically say "Ask Republican Senators about 10 Hoffmann's proposal. Ask them why their party 11 refuses to support her. Ask them what they 12 specifically are doing to make the Legislature 13 or at least their own chamber less expensive and 14 more responsive", and then it goes on to list 15 individual Senators by district who they hoped 16 the readers will contact in support of these 17 reforms. 18 The Cortland Standard ran an 19 editorial last Friday in which it talks about 20 the need for persistence, and it says that 21 "Despite the cold shoulder she's received from 22 Senate Republicans, Senator Hoffmann shouldn't 23 give up", and it wishes me well and indicates 1 that it hopes that some of the other legislators 2 who represent that area of the state will take 3 heed this year and add their voices to mine in 4 passing these reform measures. 5 The Utica newspaper did the same 6 thing. It said, "Tell state legislators to open 7 up the Legislature." It says, "Next week will 8 bring two unhappy rituals. The first comes 9 Monday when tax returns must be filed. The 10 second comes Tuesday when state Senator Nancy 11 Larraine Hoffmann will try to bring out of 12 committee her reform agenda for the state 13 Legislature. This is a ritual act because every 14 year the Senate's Republican leadership ensures 15 that this package of critical action never even 16 gets to the floor for debate", and then it 17 discusses the issues and it concludes by saying 18 "Demand reform and demand it now and warn the 19 legislators that if we block "Reform Tuesday", 20 they will pay at the polls this November." 21 Those are strong words from 22 people who write newspapers. They're strong 23 words from taxpayers, and they don't seem to be 1 waning at all. If I am able to do this for 2 seven years -- and I've seen Senator Volker 3 conduct his crusade for 17 years -- I am 4 convinced that in time we are going to see these 5 reforms become law, either under my sponsorship 6 or someone else's sponsorship or program bills. 7 I believe that eventually they will be heard, 8 but the voices simply don't stop all around the 9 state. 10 Here's a letter from somebody in 11 Babylon, New York, from the Retired Police 12 Association of New York State who tells me that 13 "Both our association president, Ed Curran and 14 I, spoke of your strong support of our 15 legislative efforts and advised the members of 16 the need to support your motion to discharge the 17 reform bills." It talks about a meeting of the 18 New York State Retired Police Association on 19 Thursday, April 11th with 125 in attendance, and 20 then it goes on to state that they will continue 21 lobbying and encloses copies of letters written 22 to Senator Bruno and several of the Long Island 23 Senators seated in the chamber today. 1 The New York State Grange has 2 stated again that they will continue to support 3 the reform efforts. 4 An individual from Canandaigua, 5 New York with whom I'm not familiar wrote to me 6 and indicated that she, I believe, would be 7 lobbying with her own legislators. 8 Somebody from Rochester, again, 9 in another Senate District, says "Keep up the 10 good work. The people are with you." 11 Otsego County. "Is it going to 12 take an act of God to pry them out of 13 committee", and then states that people in 14 Otsego County will continue promoting this 15 effort. 16 Avon, New York. This individual 17 states that she will petition Senator Volker and 18 Assemblyman Johnson to support these reforms and 19 continued to make the case for these to be 20 passed. 21 There was one from Skaneateles 22 Falls, one from Webster, New York. It said that 23 "It's sure worth a try because it is far from 1 good the way the Legislature is presently run." 2 Farmington, New York. "I 3 sympathize with your continuing efforts to enact 4 meaningful reform. In the future, if there is 5 any way to keep me informed on a timely basis, 6 you can count on my support." 7 Henrietta, New York. "Thank you 8 and God bless you with the courage and strength 9 to continue the fight -- to continue to fight 10 the obstinate legislators who are thinking only 11 of themselves and not of the good of New York 12 State." I'm not sure whose district that is, 13 Henrietta, but I'm sure this is a copy of a 14 letter that was sent to a legislator from that 15 district. 16 One from Lansing, New York. 17 "Although we are not constituents of yours, we 18 support your common sense approach to 19 government. Keep up the good work." 20 One from Wayland, New York. 21 "Three cheers, and I'm so glad someone has the 22 courage to press for reform. Keep up", et 23 cetera. 1 Herkimer. "All meetings in 2 Albany should be open to all the Legislature, as 3 well as individuals who have a real input to 4 contribute. This closed door policy is 5 ridiculous and obviously isn't the answer 6 anyway. People feel there is no point in voting 7 or having an opinion because no one is 8 listening." 9 Williamson, New York. "I'm not 10 in your district but for God sakes, keep up your 11 effort with reform to our state government. If 12 there is any way I can help, please let me 13 know." 14 New Hartford, Utica, Long Island, 15 Liverpool, Vernon, Webster, Patchogue. "I will 16 certainly do my best to help get these bills 17 through or at least get them the attention they 18 deserve." That's from somebody with a 19 newsletter. 20 Waterville, New Hampton. We have 21 received in my district office and in this 22 office in Albany, literally hundreds of letters 23 from people all over the state, many of them 1 recently, some of them asking to be kept 2 informed over the year as you've heard from some 3 other people, and I intend to keep these people 4 informed and let them know the results of this 5 vote today and let them know that these bills, 6 should they not move, will all continue to be 7 live bills until this session adjourns, but it's 8 not just the upstate newspapers and it's not 9 just some constituents in rural areas who are 10 voicing their support for reform. 11 These measures have received the 12 support of the New York Daily News. Way back in 13 1992, it was stated in an editorial, "Word has 14 never filtered out to the public at-large that 15 Congress' peccadillos are mere child's play 16 compared to those of the Legislature in New York 17 State. If you're inclined to chauvinism, you 18 might say when it comes to abuses of power, 19 Washington is playing Triple A ball, while 20 Albany is in the Major Leage", and then it goes 21 on to the endorse the legislative reforms that I 22 have continued to propose. 23 The New York Times in 1992 said 1 "There's a lot to criticize, starting with the 2 Legislature's loaded $168 million budget, unlike 3 Congress which at least provides a detailed 4 breakdown. The leaders of the perk ridden 5 Assembly and Senate provide only a grudging 6 outline to justify their legislative budget, the 7 highest in the country. The result is giant 8 incumbency protection unaccountable to the 9 taxpayers", and also from the New York Times, 10 only a year later, "For too long, secrecy has 11 allowed the Legislature, especially the Senate, 12 to operate as a giant re-election machine, that 13 if enough members protest, sunshine may at last 14 penetrate the Albany slush." 15 I welcome the support of these 16 organizations. I welcome the support of my 17 colleagues on both sides of the aisle to these 18 measures. 19 I would like to just close my 20 general remarks before we bring up the bills one 21 at a time and indicate that I was touched 22 yesterday when I saw on the wire news that a 23 former reporter, a retired reporter from the 1 Buffalo News who had covered the Albany 2 legislative activities for 13 years passed 3 away. Jerry Allen retired. He was 76 years 4 old, and he was quoted -- he retired in 1982, 5 shortly before I arrived here, but he still 6 contributed to pieces of that paper. 7 After a trip back to Albany in 8 1992, he wrote that "Nothing seems to have 9 changed. Most of the legislators from western 10 New York and Buffalo that I wrote about are 11 still there." Then he goes on to say, "Albany 12 has all of that high tech paraphernalia and 13 more, but the message is old stuff, almost 14 medieval. State government still limps along as 15 it has for a century with an obsolete structure 16 and inexcusable waste." That contemptuous 17 attitude from people who cover us for the 18 newspapers across the state. 19 Don't we want to do something to 20 improve our image? Don't we want to do 21 something to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the 22 public? Isn't it time that we provided them 23 with some good government? Isn't it time that 1 we adopted some meaningful reforms and accepted 2 the need for accountability? I urge all of my 3 colleagues. Let us not go through this motion 4 of discharge year after year after year. Let's 5 enact these measures and get on with the 6 business of restructuring a state government 7 that we can all be proud of. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 9 any other Senator wishing to speak on this 10 motion? 11 Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Senator 13 just yield to just one question? 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR GOLD: You made a 18 reference to an editorial in the New York Daily 19 News. Could you just tell me the year. 20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: There are 21 several editorials from the New York Daily 22 News. There's one from 1992. There's another 23 one from 1993 or '94. Actually, Senator Gold, 1 it would take me a little while to find it, 2 because this entire section here is editorial 3 and it's not complete. These are editorials in 4 support of these measures from around the state, 5 but I do believe I have at least two or three 6 from the Daily News here. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold, do you wish the Senator to yield again? 9 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. Yeah. 10 Do you recall any news stories in the Daily News 11 about your efforts or just the editorial page? 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I don't recall 13 news stories per se. I'm not sure at this 14 point. There may have been some, but I don't 15 know. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 17 just briefly. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold on the motion. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I was just asked 21 those questions and I'm glad the Senator was 22 kind enough to yield, because it's obvious to me 23 that while there are editorial boards around the 1 state and certainly the Daily News, which its 2 editorial board I don't have on any pedestal, 3 that's for sure, but in this case, they were 4 obviously smart enough to know something was 5 going on. It would be interesting if some of 6 those reporters were also that intelligent. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 9 motion? 10 (There was no response.) 11 Hearing none, the Chair would 12 remind the members that a vote in the 13 affirmative is a vote to discharge the bill from 14 committee. A vote in the negative is a vote to 15 defeat the motion and leave the bill in 16 committee. 17 All those in favor of the motion 18 signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye".) 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 21 will like to explain my vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos to explain his vote. 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I just want to 2 remind my colleagues -- and the reason why I'm 3 voting no on this one and the other motions to 4 discharge is that they are really a vote on a 5 procedural matter and certainly not on the 6 merits of the bill. 7 As I was listening to the 8 Hoffmann anthology, I just wanted to remind all 9 of us in the room and those who bothered to 10 listen at this time of year, that under Senator 11 Bruno there have been more reforms in the year 12 and a half that he's been Majority Leader than 13 probably the 12 years -- and Senator Hoffmann 14 and I were elected in the same year -- in the 15 entire prior history of the state Senate, and 16 I'm very proud of that. Our conferences are on 17 time and we did in the Majority have an open 18 conference. I believe that's one more than the 19 Minority had this past year. We see leadership 20 meetings that are open to the public and to the 21 press with the Majority and the Minority being 22 present. That's under Governor Pataki and 23 certainly in support of Senator Bruno, Speaker 1 Silver. Our sessions start on time, 3:00 p.m. 2 Generally they're over by 6:00, 7:00 o'clock, 3 generally earlier, so that they are in the light 4 of day. 5 Last year, I do not recall a 6 budget vote that occurred in the darkness of the 7 night. I believe every single vote occurred 8 during the day and certainly we have conference 9 committees now in the state Senate, and this 10 Senate is being run in an orderly and 11 businesslike fashion under the leadership of 12 Senator Bruno, and certainly there will be more 13 reforms that will be presented by the Majority 14 and our Majority Leader in the near future as 15 the process goes along, but it's very important 16 to know that to be part of the process in 17 Albany, you have to be here. You have to be 18 here, and I know many articles were read by 19 Senator Hoffmann. 20 Other articles probably will be 21 mentioned during the day, but I would just like 22 to point to one article that appeared in the 23 Daily News and, you know, maybe some of the 1 reasons why people weren't here were legitimate, 2 and I'm sure there are because just like with 3 the Majority, we all have frailties of life, 4 problems that occur, but I'm very proud to say 5 that with Albany's worst no-shows as appeared in 6 the Daily News April 15th, in the top seven, 7 there is not one Majority member listed. We are 8 here, the Majority, with Senator Bruno, doing 9 our work on a daily basis, having our committees 10 function, having our commissions, our task force 11 function, doing the work of the people of the 12 state of New York and even more important, being 13 here on a daily basis and voting on bills, yes 14 and no, as we are elected to do so. 15 So in explaining my vote, Mr. 16 President, I am going to vote no. It will be a 17 party vote in the negative on the first motion 18 to discharge of Senator Hoffmann, that I intend 19 again -- because they are procedural matters, 20 that I intend to vote no on all the additional 21 motions to discharge this day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will call the roll. 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 Mr. President, a lot goes on out 7 here, and I think it's interesting that whenever 8 you call up certain kinds of conduct, there's 9 always somebody on the other side, usually very 10 close to the aisle, who yells out "cheap shot." 11 I think that Senator Skelos' reference is a 12 very, very cheap shot, particularly when you 13 talk about a newspaper which, as I pointed out 14 talking to Senator Hoffmann, somebody on the 15 editorial page understands reform, their 16 reporters can be up here the longest time. 17 The Daily News doesn't understand 18 that if they wrote stories about motions like 19 this, they could be changed, because if these 20 bills come to the floor, they will be changed. 21 They are not procedural. They are, in fact, 22 bills which could have effect. 23 One of your members who I won't 1 mention by name because I don't want to yell a 2 cheap shot, even writes letters to his local 3 newspaper about how he's for reform and then 4 votes against the bills when they come out of 5 here. The reporters just can't pick that up. 6 Maybe one of the reasons the reporters don't is 7 they don't want to get you people mad because 8 it's easier getting stories in the back rooms 9 for you than working for them. 10 The bottom line, though, is that 11 the members on this side are very hard-working 12 and very effective, and the issue is not 13 attendance. It's effectiveness. As a matter of 14 fact, the one year that Jim Donovan -- may he 15 rest in peace -- wasn't here because of illness, 16 he would have shown up in that story which would 17 have been an irrelevancy and a cheap shot. 18 There are people in that story who have 19 illnesses. There is one person in that story - 20 modesty forbids me from mentioning the name - 21 has probably got one of the best attendance 22 records over 25 years that ever was, and in the 23 year that my father-in-law died, the rather 1 untalented person that wrote that story decides 2 to write a story. 3 At any rate, the point is that 4 this is not procedural, but my congratulations 5 to you, Senator Skelos, because you're smart 6 enough to know that reporters aren't always as 7 smart as they think they are, and if they were 8 that smart and they were around here long 9 enough, they would know that change can be 10 accomplished if they, in their news stories, 11 were helpful in supporting what goes on in these 12 chambers, and there's not enough of them. Thank 13 God we've got one or two, but there's not enough 14 of them who understand what this whole thing is 15 about. They understand that at the end of the 16 day they've got to have a story, and if they can 17 get a story from the back room in the Majority, 18 that's a story, but that doesn't lead to 19 change. 20 What leads to change is 21 persistence and Senator Hoffmann, God bless her, 22 has persistence, and there are other people, 23 Senator Dollinger, and I know the talk around 1 this place. You don't like people with 2 persistence. Well, that's too bad. Our job is 3 to be persistent and to see to it that change 4 comes, and I'm glad that Senator Bruno makes 5 changes. I'm not against that, but it's amazing 6 to me. Somebody does his job and then you 7 expect a bouquet for it. You expect a medal for 8 it, and then you say I cannot do now all of the 9 things I should do. 10 I don't understand Senator Bruno 11 in this reward. He has tried to bring certain 12 changes. Well, if he has a businessman -- and I 13 respect that word as I say it -- as a 14 businessman, he came in and said we've got to 15 have changes. If we're going in at 3:00, I'm 16 going to be there at 3:00. If we're going in at 17 2:00, we'll be there at 2:00. I want committees 18 to run. If he understands all of that, how does 19 his mind shut off on the kinds of things that 20 Senator Dollinger and Senator Leichter and, in 21 this case, Senator Hoffmann talk about? 22 The answer is it's not shutting 23 off from lack of intellect, so it must be 1 shutting off because of the kind of things 2 talked about before, there's something to hide 3 or there's something to give up. 4 Senator Skelos, you have 31-plus 5 votes. We have made offers of amendments to 6 bills. We make suggestions to bills, and the 7 machos on your side will never take any 8 suggestion. So when you say you're here to do 9 the people's work, you're not doing the people's 10 work. You're doing your own work, your own 11 political work as you see it. So don't 12 criticize people and say, Well, you know, if you 13 were here on a certain day, something would have 14 happened, because the answer is that it is a 15 constant fight for the members of this Minority 16 to make sure that the issues are put out there 17 to show the invalidity of a lot of the things 18 you do, and we are going to continue to do that, 19 and it's for that reason, partially, that I 20 support these motions. 21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. President, 22 I wonder if Senator Skelos would yield for a 23 question, please. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Hoffmann, we are on a roll call at the moment, 3 and Senator DiCarlo has asked for the 4 opportunity to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. I 6 can wait until the following bill comes up. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Pardon? 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I can wait 9 until the next bill comes up, that following 10 roll call. Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 DiCarlo to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 To explain my vote. I appreciate 16 the fact that Senator Skelos rose and brought up 17 that issue and, Senators, it wasn't meant as a 18 cheap shot but, Senator, you just mentioned that 19 the macho guys on this side of the aisle never 20 take the advice, and let me differ with you. 21 I've -- I'm a member of the Codes 22 Committee with you and Senator Volker, and you 23 just made a statement on this floor that we 1 don't listen to the Minority, and I have been in 2 that meeting many -- well, you made a statement 3 about the macho guys on this side never taking 4 any advice and that's not right, and it's wrong, 5 and I have heard you say wonderful things about 6 Senator Volker many, many types, but not in that 7 instance and not the way you just did, and 8 that's wrong, and that's got to be pointed out, 9 and when Senator -- when you spoke up from 10 Syracuse, Senator Hoffmann, and you were very 11 proud to quote newspaper articles and writers 12 around this state, you know, God knows, I've had 13 my fill of reporters and I don't like many of 14 them, and I have reason not to like them because 15 most of the time they don't get their facts 16 straight, but you stood up there very proudly 17 talking about how -- how little they thought of 18 these -- these proceedings in this Senate. If 19 you're going to have it that way, you've got to 20 accept it the other way, and if you're saying 21 how wonderful they are, then when there's an 22 article written talking about how, out of the 23 seven members -- seven Senators all who happen 1 to be on that aisle who are not doing the 2 people's work, also bring up that article. 3 Let's be fair about it. 4 So, Senator Skelos, when you 5 stood up and you said let's set the record 6 straight, I think that's what has to be done, 7 and to say a cheap shot might have been -- but 8 an awful lot of cheap shots are coming from that 9 side, and let's try and talk about the facts and 10 let's try and talk about what's right and wrong, 11 and the press isn't always right and, God knows, 12 most of the time they're wrong, but if you're 13 going to stand there and you're going to quote 14 them and you're going to quote them like they're 15 the Bible, then be prepared to accept it from 16 the other side also. 17 For that reason, on a procedural 18 vote, I vote no. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would the 20 negatives - 21 Senator Dollinger, why do you 22 rise? 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I explain 1 my vote as well? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, I rise to explain my vote just to 6 clarify a couple of things. One is I think 7 Senator DiCarlo is correct. I think I have seen 8 in the three years I have been here more advice 9 taken. I certainly would point to the chairman 10 of the Codes Committee, even in today's meeting 11 of that committee, I thought -- a lot of give 12 and take, productive, and I thought some of the 13 discussions of amendments and changes in bills 14 were well taken. 15 I also believe in the other 16 committees that I have participated in that has 17 become more and more of the norm. I have to 18 disagree with one thing Senator Gold said. 19 Senator Gold said we're trying to reform, and 20 this is where I will point to the Deputy 21 Majority Leader and give him his credit. I 22 believe there has been more than just trying to 23 reform this chamber. I believe that the 1 decision to go to Conference Committees was a 2 good one. Senator Hoffmann and Senator Leichter 3 had been giving that advice long before I got 4 here as the right thing to do, and I think it 5 was certainly accepted by Senator Bruno. He put 6 it in place. He deserves the credit for it, and 7 I know that the Deputy Majority Leader was one 8 of those who said, This is what we ought to do 9 because it's the right thing to do. 10 We have embarked on an itemized 11 budget. That too, as I recall, the first motion 12 to discharge we ever did, Senator Leichter stood 13 up and talked about itemized budgets. We're 14 getting there and we're moving down the road. 15 We certainly itemized the mailing expenses, 16 which I think was one of the itemized issues 17 that I fought about a couple of years ago. 18 So, Mr. President, I do see 19 progress and I'm willing to give Senator Bruno 20 and Senator Skelos and the other members of this 21 Majority some credit for that movement, but 22 rather than using the old analogy about is the 23 drink half empty or half full, I'd rather use 1 the analogy of building a house. It isn't a 2 house until it's done. A half built house isn't 3 good. It doesn't have that much value to you. 4 You've got to finish the floors. You've got to 5 finish the floor. You've got to make the 6 bathrooms work. You've got to put the roof on. 7 You've got to turn on the lights. 8 It seems to me we've put up part 9 of the structure and maybe we've got part of the 10 floor boards in, but we ought to finish it. We 11 ought to take what Senator Hoffmann puts forward 12 in these motions to discharge as just the kind 13 of elements that we need to turn on the lights, 14 to get the water running, to make sure the 15 plumbing works so that this house really serves 16 as the people's house and we can do the people's 17 business. 18 I will, I think -- and, Senator 19 Skelos, I know you and I have talked about 20 this. I think we've put in a lot of the 21 infrastructure and the improvements. I think we 22 need to finish the job. What Senator Hoffmann 23 is talking about is doing those fine touches so 1 this house will be the fine, the noble, the 2 wonderful place that the people's house should 3 be and the Senate can be the leader, and that's 4 why I'm voting in favor of these motions to 5 discharge. It's the right thing to do. 6 I'll close on one other notice. 7 It seems to me that part of the problem is that 8 too often we teach our children what the right 9 thing to do is in government, but we don't 10 practice it ourselves, and my question is what 11 message do we really send if we don't practice 12 what we preach? 13 We all know this is good 14 government. We all know that what Senator 15 Hoffmann is asking for is good government. 16 Describe it as procedural. Describe it as 17 substantive. This is our one chance. This is 18 your one chance to cast a vote for the right 19 kind of government that our children would be 20 proud of. 21 Vote aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos, you did indicate previously that you 1 wanted a party line vote for the Majority. Is 2 that true? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will -- Senator Velella, you're 6 asking - 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Just briefly to 8 explain my vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Velella to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR VELELLA: I've listened 12 to a lot of the comments, and I'm proud of the 13 record of this house, not only under the 14 leadership of Senator Bruno, but by the way my 15 colleagues conduct themselves. It was this 16 house who only last week allowed every Minority 17 member to go on a 48-hour maternity bill which 18 the Governor signed, and every Democratic member 19 in this house was allowed to be on a piece of 20 legislation that they could proudly go home with 21 and talk about. 22 Unfortunately, our colleagues 23 over in the Assembly, Speaker Silver said, We 1 will only allow those Assemblymen who are not 2 marginal, the ones that are Republicans that we 3 think we can beat will not be allowed on the 4 bill. That's a big difference between the 5 Assembly and the Senate, and let me say that 6 we've talked a lot today about the reporters and 7 what they're going to say about this debate and 8 how this house is being run by this Majority. I 9 asked them to look at it fairly. If, in fact, 10 my Democratic colleagues on the other side of 11 the aisle, the Minority, are sincere in what 12 they're saying, then tomorrow morning, you will 13 be welcomed into their Democratic Conference 14 because we cannot stop them from opening the 15 Democratic Conference. They can open that 16 conference. They can vote and say, "Let the 17 press come in. Open the doors." Instead, they 18 point the finger at us and say we are stopping 19 them. I challenge them. Do it. Put your money 20 where your mouth is and stop playing to the 21 press. 22 I vote in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1 Paterson, are you asking for a party line vote 2 also? 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 6 right. The Secretary will record the party line 7 vote. Announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23, nays 37. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 motion is defeated. 11 The Secretary will continue to 12 read the motions to discharge, particularly 13 Senate -- motion to discharge Senate 2070. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Hoffmann, Senate 2070, an act to amend the 16 Legislative Law, in relation to the time for 17 debate on matters before the Legislature. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 19 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd like to 21 point out for the record that the language in 22 this bill, 2070, is identical to the language in 23 a resolution previously adopted by this Senate 1 at the beginning of Senator Bruno's term as 2 Majority Leader. It is also identical to the 3 language adopted in a rule for this Senate 4 earlier this year. Therefore, I can't imagine 5 why there would be any objection from any of my 6 colleagues on the other side of the aisle from 7 making this a permanent law to govern the state 8 of New York. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 question is on the motion to discharge. All 11 those in favor signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye".) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Nays - 14 opposed, nays. 15 (Response of "Nay".) 16 The motion is lost. The 17 Secretary will continue to call -- or read the 18 motions to discharge. 19 Senate 2072 is next. 20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 21 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2072, an act to amend the 22 State Finance Law, in relation to requiring that 23 budget bills making appropriations or 1 reappropriations to the Legislature contain 2 specific categories. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Hoffmann. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. I feel compelled to comment on a 7 couple of points that were raised by a few of my 8 colleagues as they explained their votes; and 9 under the rules of house, it was, in effect, 10 inappropriate for me to attempt to question them 11 during the explanation. I realize they were 12 afforded two minutes to explain their votes, 13 sometimes interpreted generously by the chair 14 and I applaud that effort, as well. But I 15 really feel compelled to make a couple of 16 references here. 17 One, I really must indicate that 18 I'm pleased that several of my colleagues have 19 chosen to engage in debate this year. There 20 have been years where I sat and looked at empty 21 chairs and was greeted only with stony silence. 22 So you have, in fact, validated my presence on 23 this planet with your comments today, and I 1 thank you for that, because that sometimes is 2 more meaningful progress than almost anything 3 else we can do. 4 Maybe I'm getting your attention; 5 and when you feel compelled to pulled out 6 newspaper articles listing the attendance of 7 members on this side of the aisle, a relatively 8 minuscule issue in comparison to how we spend 9 $168 million on our entire legislative budget 10 between these two houses, how we conduct 11 business behind closed doors, I believe that 12 that's a very interesting tactic in an attempt 13 to detract from the severity of these issues and 14 the fact that they are gaining enormous weight. 15 And, when Senator Skelos can pull 16 out this many newspaper articles (indicating) 17 that criticize me directly or other members of 18 this chamber for our reform efforts, then we 19 will be on an equal footing. But, today, he 20 pulled out one article that embarrasses some of 21 us for terrible attendance records this year. 22 I haven't read the article, but I 23 do believe that it probably makes an accurate 1 statement that some of us have not been 2 attending our sessions as well as we should 3 have, and it's wonderful that he wants to point 4 that out. But if that is the only thing that he 5 has to defend the current practices in this 6 house and try to refute my efforts, then he is 7 clearly unarmed for this battle that is going to 8 continue across this state with the taxpayers 9 rising up in arms about their outrage at the way 10 we conduct business. 11 I was encouraged also when 12 Senator Skelos made a special point, as did 13 Senator DiCarlo, that they were voting on a 14 procedural measure and they wanted to vote no on 15 the procedural measure, and clearly made the 16 record reflect that. 17 So I would like to ask if Senator 18 Skelos would yield for a question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Hoffmann. Senator Hoffmann, excuse me for just 21 a minute. 22 Senator Paterson, why do you 23 rise? 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Maybe I'm 2 interrupting, but, Mr. President, I want to know 3 if Senator Hoffmann would yield for a question. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I will yield 5 for a question, but then I would like to ask a 6 few of my colleagues. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Hoffmann yields. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would be 10 glad to yield to a question, Mr. President. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I was 12 just going to ask you how you felt about 13 newspaper articles that would mention those 14 Senators who had not had particularly high 15 attendance records, or that they just happen to 16 be the seven that had the lowest attendance 17 records. They didn't necessarily have to be bad 18 attendance records. It's my opinion that that 19 actually illustrates your point. I don't think 20 anyone here would concede that any of our 21 colleagues are not working. 22 I think we have all seen how hard 23 each of us work, but the fact is that when you 1 have a minimum of participation, you then have a 2 need to illustrate your point in other ways, 3 perhaps going to some of the regions of the 4 state and drumming up support at those 5 particular times, particularly when it is 6 impossible to get bills on the floor. It is 7 impossible to get bills out of the committees, 8 and it is impossible to have what would be an 9 ordinary amount of participation. 10 When we talk in terms of Majority 11 and Minority, perhaps we have taken the concept 12 too far. We have taken it to a point where we 13 are denying thought, denying reason, denying 14 really the right to express a point of view. 15 I don't think it would really be 16 a bad idea if each of us -- since we have about 17 75 session days and we have 61 Senators, if each 18 of us was allowed to bring one issue that we 19 thought was important to our constituents to the 20 floor of the Senate at least once in a 21 particular year. 22 So I'm just basically asking you 23 to comment on whether or not, though it may be 1 the intention of an article to embarrass people, 2 if it does not actually demonstrate the fact 3 that there would be greater participation - 4 that there would be greater attendance if there 5 was greater participation? 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 7 Senator Paterson. I would be happy to respond 8 to that, and it gives me an opportunity to bring 9 up an issue that is very germane to this 10 discussion, and I want to comment on the issue 11 of germaneness. Before, Senator DiCarlo, I 12 believe, admonished me -- I think it was 13 directed at me. Having quoted newspapers, he 14 felt I should be quoting that other one. I was 15 trying to deal as germanely as I could -- a 16 phrase that, we often hear from the chair, is to 17 be respected in this chamber. I tried to deal 18 as germanely as I could with the issues of 19 legislative reform. 20 Remember, in my very constrained 21 time, this one day a year -- in this case, one 22 day out of two years -- in which I'm given the 23 opportunity to speak to these issues, even 1 though, as it's been pointed out by the Acting 2 Majority Leader, they are not real bills on the 3 floor. They are only motions. 4 I mean I have been relegated to a 5 position that is clearly lower than second class 6 in this chamber. I have been relegated to a 7 position of inability to act as a duly elected 8 member of this Senate, because I am being denied 9 the opportunity to bring these bills to the 10 floor, as the Acting Majority Leader made it 11 very clear a few minutes ago these are only 12 procedural motions. He has rubbed salt into my 13 wounds once again. It's quite clear to me they 14 are only procedural measures because those bills 15 are, in fact, entombed in committee. 16 And I would like to ask Senator 17 Skelos if he would be willing to yield for one 18 question, Mr. President? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Hoffmann, the chair would remind you that there 21 were rules that were adopted earlier this 22 session, and one of the rules -- and if you have 23 them in your desk, particularly Section 4-e was 1 amended -- excuse me -- Rule 9, Section 4-e was 2 amended to only allow a person who has the floor 3 to ask people who have spoken, and I think the 4 language is "on the matter" a question. 5 So your request to ask Senator 6 Skelos is totally outside the rules of this 7 chamber, and the chair would have a great deal 8 of difficulty in overlooking that, let's put it 9 that way. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Really? What 11 would it take for you to overlook that, Mr. 12 President, to ask Senator Skelos if he would be 13 willing to yield for a question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 15 about 31 Minority members. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Really? You 17 know, I could -- I could prolong this 18 experience, already characterized by some people 19 in the chamber as agony, by appealing the ruling 20 and going through a series of parliamentary 21 maneuvers. I don't choose to do that, but I 22 would like very much to state for the record, 23 that acting in the capacity as President of the 1 Chamber, Senator Kuhl has very eloquently stated 2 an important reality of this chamber that sadly 3 flies in the face of the progress made by 4 Senator Bruno in so many other areas. 5 This is an enormous step backward 6 in our debate, in our exchange of ideas. This 7 particular rules change has led to a situation 8 in which I am not able to now raise a question 9 of a colleague who used his preemptory time 10 during the explanation of his vote to make a 11 shot at me and at some of my colleagues. He 12 certainly has that right, but I have now - 13 through another Majority-enacted measure in this 14 house in another way, my ability even my 15 opportunity to exercise exchange with a 16 colleague has been curtailed. 17 Much of what I said earlier - 18 and I will have to direct my comments to Senator 19 Skelos. Much of what I said at the very outset 20 of this activity revolved around praise for 21 Senator Bruno and my great hope and belief that 22 we will continue on a positive direction, and I 23 would remind Senator Skelos and the other 1 members of this chamber that I had great 2 confidence that we would, in fact, adopt many of 3 these reforms and it would not be necessary for 4 me to go through the method of motions for 5 discharge any more. 6 But as he has demonstrated, first 7 by indicating that he would vote against this 8 measure because it was procedural and, as has 9 now been demonstrated by the ruling of the 10 chair, that I can not even query him on his 11 criticism of me regarding Senator Bruno, his 12 criticism of me regarding these motions for 13 discharge; that in one more area my capability 14 as a Senator has been eroded by arbitrary and 15 partisan decisions on the other part of this 16 chamber. 17 I was asked by Senator Paterson a 18 minute ago how it feels to be in this position. 19 And, I commented, about a week ago, to a 20 reporter who wrote another embarrassing article 21 -- and, Senator Skelos, I guess you missed it, 22 but there was an article that ran in the 23 Syracuse newspaper by an extremely well-known 1 columnist who derided Democratic Senators for 2 not coming promptly to the chamber, for not 3 being here, for frequently checking in early and 4 leaving, and I will confess that I am often 5 guilty of that habit myself, but let me tell you 6 why, and Senator Paterson raised it. 7 Just as Senator Paterson alluded, 8 we very often feel our greatest effectiveness is 9 in our districts, is in doing what amounts to 10 educational and proselytizing work in the 11 countryside, because in this chamber we are 12 unable to act as duly elected Senators, and I 13 don't know what better illustration I could 14 provide than the way the bills have been 15 reported out of this house since the beginning 16 of this year. 17 As of April 12, there have been 18 644 bills reported out of the Senate, 7 19 sponsored by Democrats elected to this chamber. 20 391 bills have passed the New York State Senate, 21 376 of those were Senate-sponsored bills, 15 of 22 them were Assembly-sponsored. Of those 376 23 bills that have passed this Senate chamber in 1 1996, only one had a Democratic sponsor. It 2 doesn't feel very good to be relegated to 3 something lower than a second-class status in 4 the New York State Senate. 5 When each of us is duly elected 6 to represent 300,000 people allegedly 7 apportioned fairly and equitably across the 8 state, why we are denied the same resources, why 9 we're denied the same opportunity to propose and 10 enact legislation is unfathomable to me, and I 11 am not going to criticize the press as Senator 12 DiCarlo did, and I realize I can not ask Senator 13 DiCarlo to yield for a question either. If they 14 are somehow uneven in their coverage, I assume 15 it is ultimately all going to come out in the 16 wash, and I take it upon myself to try to 17 educate them if they have misunderstood my 18 motives or misunderstood something I have done, 19 and I find, as a rule, they are reasonable 20 individuals, and they are willing to listen to 21 us if we feel we have been maligned or treated 22 unfairly. 23 I think probably one of the best 1 illustrations of that is the fact that in 1991, 2 when I first brought these motions to discharge 3 up, I appealed to the press to report them. I 4 appealed to members of the working media in the 5 Legislative Correspondents Association, and I 6 said I have no other way to bring bills 7 forward. Yes, this is only an arcane 8 parliamentary procedure, but it's all I've got, 9 so you owe it to the people who sent me here to 10 let them know that at least I will do this for 11 them. At least I will stand there and endure 12 the embarrassment that comes from shots from 13 across the aisle and attempts to repudiate my 14 effort, attempts to misrepresent, distort or 15 accuse me of grandstanding. That was the big 16 charge that year. 17 I would love to be able to stand 18 here and introduce substantive bills. I would 19 love to be able to go out to my constituents and 20 say I'm so happy that such and such a bill that 21 I introduced passed yesterday and was supported 22 by all these other members, but I am denied that 23 opportunity most of the time, as are the other 1 people on this side of the aisle. 2 So those are the reasons why we 3 protest the way business is conducted here, and 4 those are the reasons why we ask Senator Bruno 5 and our Republican colleagues to change the way 6 that we do business. 7 As to the issue of opening up the 8 Democratic conference -- and I realize that I 9 can not ask Senator Velella to yield, because he 10 has not spoken on this subject. Senator Velella 11 made the suggestion that the Senate Democrats 12 should open up their party conference. 13 Senator Velella, unfortunately, 14 has totally missed the point. I have made it 15 clear that this little reform agenda is merely a 16 blueprint, and it is only when we render all 17 party conferences null and void, except for 18 purely political discussions, of course, it is 19 only then that we could rebuild a system using 20 the committees where debate could be encouraged 21 in the light of day. 22 It is the party conferences of 23 the Majority where the principal decision making 1 takes place. Opening up our party conference 2 would really serve little purpose, although I 3 wouldn't have any problem doing that. That is 4 not the point. The point is we need to build a 5 new structure based on openness, and that means 6 that all of us must be willing to accept the 7 responsibility to debate in public those 8 important issues of the taxpayers of this state. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Will you yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Hoffmann, Senator Velella is asking you to 12 yield. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would be 14 most pleased to yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, so you 18 don't think I'm back -- or that you don't think 19 that I am taking advantage of you, I will be 20 happy to yield if you have a question that you 21 would like to ask me. I'm asking you one now, 22 and then I will yield to whatever it is you 23 would like to ask me, because you said there was 1 some procedural reason you couldn't inquire of 2 me. 3 But let me ask you. Have you 4 ever heard of the idea of leading by example? 5 Leading by example, making those changes that 6 are within your power to make so that those who 7 are not as bright as you, who are not as 8 enlightened as you might try to follow your 9 lead. Why don't you do that with the Democratic 10 Conference? We can't stop you from opening the 11 Democratic conference. Sit in that room with 12 your colleagues and say, "Hey, let's lead by 13 example. Let's welcome the press in. Let's 14 open the doors, a breath of fresh air and we 15 will look over to that side of the aisle, and 16 we'll say we have our open conference. Why 17 don't you? We meet in open. We don't meet 18 behind doors." 19 Start out in the beginning. 20 Maybe that's why you're not being as successful 21 as you'd like to be. You are tilting at the 22 windmills. Try to make the difference where you 23 can make the difference. Lead by example. Try 1 to get your own party to make those reforms. 2 Maybe we'll look at it and say, Hey, the product 3 is great. It really looks much better like 4 that. We'll follow the lead. 5 We had an open conference. 6 Wasn't much different than the closed 7 conferences. Try it. You will like it. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 9 Senator Velella, for agreeing to yield to a 10 question. I appreciate your very collegial 11 attitude today and thank you for that. 12 The issue you just raised about 13 the Senate Minority opening its conference, as I 14 pointed out a minute ago indicates there's 15 really little purpose for the Senate Democrats 16 opening. I have no problem with that. I think 17 that it's fine, but the reality is I don't think 18 the party conferences are a very good idea at 19 all for much of anything. I don't feel a lot of 20 kindred spirit, many times, when I'm in the 21 Democratic Conference Room because most of my 22 colleagues in that room come from parts of the 23 state that are quite unfamiliar with many of the 1 issues that face my part of the state. I'm sure 2 you've occasionally had that experience in your 3 conference, Senator Velella. 4 Let me ask you. Have you ever 5 felt like perhaps you should have been talking 6 with a different group of people about an issue 7 that affected your district, that the ones in 8 your conference room did not understand as well 9 as perhaps another group of legislators might 10 have understood? 11 SENATOR VELELLA: No. No, 12 Senator. I find the Republican Conference 13 perfectly adequate, capable and intelligent to 14 handle any of the problems that present 15 themselves in the state. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would you 17 yield for another question, Senator Velella? Do 18 you - 19 SENATOR VELELLA: Certainly. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Velella -- excuse me. 22 Senator Velella, do you yield to 23 another question from Senator Hoffmann? 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you so 5 much, Senator Velella. Do you believe that the 6 Republican Conference Room is a vastly superior 7 place for decision making than would be a 8 Finance Committee meeting? 9 SENATOR VELELLA: No, Senator, I 10 don't think the Republican Conference Room is so 11 vastly superior to any other room in the 12 building. The quality of the membership is far 13 superior than the alternative that the people 14 are offered in terms of the Minority, but, 15 certainly, we are not -- the rooms are not any 16 more superior. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator 18 Velella yield for another question, Mr. 19 President? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Velella, do you continue to yield to Senator 22 Hoffmann? 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 yields. 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 4 Velella, do you believe that it is better for 5 the people of this state to have decisions made 6 in a closed door session of Republican Senators 7 than in an open meeting of any description? 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator, 9 I think that the party process that your party 10 follows having closed meetings, the party 11 process my party follows has a certain process, 12 there are closed door meetings. I think what we 13 need to do is look at the product that comes out 14 of here, and the product that comes out of this 15 side of this house, I think, is a darn good 16 product. It certainly has gone to the people of 17 the state time and time again, and they have 18 again returned us to the majority. So we must 19 be doing something right. 20 There are some flaws in the 21 system. You know, maybe if you opened up your 22 party conference to the public, you might become 23 the majority some day, heaven forbid, but if 1 that ever happened - 2 (Laughter.) 3 We have even reached the maximum 4 far beyond our expectation. We're at 37. I 5 think that's great. We really are getting the 6 support of the people. They like what we're 7 doing. We are winning the elections. We are 8 keeping the majority. You got to do something 9 desperate. Why don't you try some tactic like 10 you're doing today. Open the party conference 11 to the people. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 13 President. Would you ask Senator Velella if 14 that was a yes or a no? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Velella? Are you asking Senator Velella to 17 yield, Senator Hoffmann? 18 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, see - 19 see, sometimes that's the problem with the 20 process. People don't pay attention. See, that 21 was an answer to your question. Your question 22 was, were we superior? No, we're not superior. 23 Our product is better than yours. You didn't 1 ask a yes or no question, I don't think. 2 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Well, I had 3 phrased it as a yes or no question. 4 Mr. President. Senator Velella 5 who I very much appreciate having been gracious 6 enough to yield for a question and invite some 7 questions, in fact, has made an interesting 8 observation. He has, once again, illustrated 9 the tremendous preoccupation around this capital 10 with partisan control of decision making. 11 It's what happens in the 12 Republican Conference Room that counts. If you 13 would extract -- I'm attempting to extract a yes 14 or no answer from Senator Velella's answer, and 15 he very proudly upholds the grand tradition of 16 closed door decision making by a group of 17 Republican Senators. I believe I've 18 characterized his response fairly. Whether it's 19 superior to an open meeting of a different sort, 20 I didn't get an answer to that, but I believe 21 that most of the taxpayers of this state think 22 that an open type of decision making process 23 would be vastly superior to the closed door 1 decision making we have right now. 2 That's why I continue to press 3 for eliminating all of the closed door party 4 conferences. Eliminating only the Democratic 5 Party Conference is going to mean virtually 6 nothing in this chamber as we know from the 7 dearth of bills with Democratic sponsorship that 8 ever emerge in this chamber. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 10 me, Senator Hoffmann. 11 Senator Velella, why do you 12 rise? 13 SENATOR VELELLA: Would Senator 14 Hoffmann yield to one more question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hoffmann, do you yield for a question? 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd be 18 delighted, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I 22 would just like to know, and I will try to 23 phrase this in a yes or no answer. Even though 1 you miscategorized my statement, I don't want to 2 leave the record without saying that you did 3 miscategorize what I said. In a yes or no, if 4 you can, I would like to know one thing. Did 5 your party, your colleagues on the Democratic 6 side of the aisle, discuss these motions in a 7 private, closed-door conference before you came 8 out on the floor to advocate that we open the 9 process? 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Did my party 11 discuss these in a closed door conference? 12 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, the 13 Minority members. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Absolutely, 15 Senator Velella. 16 SENATOR VELELLA: Okay. Thank 17 you. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Did your 19 party? Would Senator Velella yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Absolutely not, 22 Senator. Absolutely not. We did not discuss it 23 in closed door session. Absolutely not. It was 1 closed in the lounge. Out here on the floor, 2 we're debating the issue in the public's eye. 3 That's the way we do things. You did it in the 4 closed door. You stay with that. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 7 Senator Velella. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Hoffmann, you have the floor still. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you very 11 much, and I'm delighted to have the floor for 12 this one day in 1996, and I'm so pleased that 13 Senator Velella and some of my other colleagues 14 are willing to explain their positions on some 15 of these measures. Even though I must confess, 16 after listening as carefully as I could, I'm 17 still at a loss to understand, and I will go 18 back over the record when I see the transcript 19 to see if I can have better understanding of 20 Senator Velella's sentiment on this subject. 21 But I am clear on my sentiment, 22 and I'm clear on the sentiment of the many 23 people who have embraced these ideas. These are 1 not earth-shaking. These are not revolutionary 2 in any way. They are simply based on common 3 sense and the belief that we would all be better 4 servants of the people if we put aside our 5 partisan affiliation when we came to Albany. 6 Most of the people that I 7 represent really have little regard whether I'm 8 a Democrat or a Republican. If they were really 9 concerned about party enrollment, then they 10 would have elected some of my five or six 11 opponents in recent years, but I have been 12 returned here several times now by more than 75 13 percent of the vote in the last two elections, 14 and yet I know that the party enrollment in 15 Upstate New York in the district that I 16 represent is overwhelmingly Republican. 17 So I don't think that Senator 18 Velella is totally correct in his assessment 19 that it is a Republican majority that people 20 want. I believe that when people vote for 21 Senator Velella or Senator Johnson, Senator 22 Skelos, or Senator Paterson or any of us, they 23 are voting for us because they like us as 1 individuals. I do not believe they are saying, 2 ahh, I want to send one more person down to that 3 closed-door Republican Conference Room. I think 4 that is probably the last thing on the minds of 5 the voters in this state, and I think that the 6 more we can educate them about how these 7 decisions take place in political arenas, as 8 opposed to in open forums, the more likelihood 9 that people will run for office on the concept 10 of conducting our business in an open manner. 11 So I would ask that we now vote 12 on S.2072, which would have us itemize the 13 legislative budget, and I have to give credit 14 where due to Senator Leichter, who for many 15 years, long before I came to this chamber, when 16 the legislative budget would come up -- in the 17 dead of night, no matter how tired he was, he 18 would make an issue of the fact that it was 19 totally unitemized. It is still unitemized, 20 although Senator Bruno tells us that it will be 21 sometime soon. 22 But those of us in the Minority 23 experience, again, a double standard in this 1 house. We do not have the same type of 2 staffing. We do not have the same type of 3 resources as do our colleagues across the aisle; 4 and, in fact, everything that takes place, 5 everything that is afforded to us for support 6 services, is at the political leader's 7 decision. It is necessary for Democratic 8 members, once elected, to find out from the 9 Democratic leader what their resources will be, 10 and I would assume the same is true on the other 11 side of the aisle. 12 I didn't know this when I was 13 first elected in 1984. I came to Albany. I 14 asked where I would get processed, and what do I 15 do about finding out my staff allocation so I 16 can go hire some people in the 48th Senate 17 District, and I was told at every turn that I 18 had to, "Go talk to Fred." "You work that out 19 with Fred." "Fred controls that." "You better 20 go speak to Fred." Well, I didn't even know 21 Fred. Fred was Senator Ohrenstein, the man who 22 didn't think that I had any chance of winning 23 and who had said some rather unkind things about 1 me in my campaign, did not exactly welcome me 2 with open arms, and he represented a district in 3 Manhattan. But because he was the Minority 4 Leader, he had absolute power over the 5 resources, the budget and I would imagine much 6 of the other extraneous equipment and supplies 7 for Minority members of the Senate. 8 So it wasn't too surprising that 9 when my secretary needed to do some Xeroxing, 10 she had to go around the corner -- around two 11 corners, into another Minority office; and if 12 the office was open, she could use the copier in 13 that office. She couldn't go into the next 14 office which was a Republican Senator's office 15 and use the wonderful collating copier that was 16 right there, and I was not even allowed a copy 17 machine at all. 18 To this day, my secretary in 19 Syracuse uses a word processor that I purchased 20 with my own funds because the Senate was not 21 going to provide a computer for that district, 22 and I note that many of my colleagues on the 23 other side of the aisle have wonderful laser 1 printers operating in their district offices. 2 This Democratic Senator doesn't have one. 3 This disparity in resources is an 4 issue that should be made clear to the public. 5 It's not petty. It's not a case of being 6 greedy. It is a case of us wanting to be able 7 to do the best for the people for whom we work, 8 and I can not serve the 300,000 people in my 9 district as well as some other Senators are able 10 to if I don't have the same resources. I would 11 like to at least see this list of resources; 12 therefore, I believe it is high time that we 13 itemized the legislative budget. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. To be heard on the motion. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter, just as a point of information, I 20 would like to correct Senator Hoffmann because I 21 was not going to interrupt her because we're 22 trying to let things flow, but for the benefit 23 of the members who have been here and listening, 1 we have now passed or have passed previously 2 three motions -- I should say there have been 3 three motions to discharge, each one has 4 failed. The last one that failed was the one 5 that Senator Hoffmann was speaking to which 6 dealt with the appropriations of the 7 Legislature. 8 The actual motion to discharge, 9 the bill that is before the house right now, 10 provides for filing of campaign receipts and 11 expenditures. So if you are arising to speak on 12 the motion that's already passed -- or failed 13 but has been before the house, I would just 14 remind you of that, Senator Leichter. It's just 15 purely by way of information. There have been 16 three votes on three motions by Senator Hoffmann 17 at this point. 18 We're now on the motion to 19 discharge Senate 2073. 20 Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 22 President. We have passed -- we have taken up 23 three previous motions. As I understand it, two 1 of them were by Senator Hoffmann and one by 2 Senator Dollinger. Is that correct? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Four. 4 Four. Senator Paterson, four. That's what I 5 was trying to get to the chamber to make sure 6 that we all understood where we were. 7 Okay. There was a motion by 8 Senator Dollinger on 6456, and we have now had 9 three by Senator Hoffmann, and we're now on the 10 fourth one by Senator Hoffmann. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 12 President. I just feel that that's in error. I 13 would just like to go over the motions that we 14 have taken up just to see where the disparity 15 is, because I believe we have only taken up two 16 of Senator Hoffmann's motions. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 18 I believe Senator Paterson is correct. I think 19 we -- we have had votes on 4640, by Senator 20 Dollinger; 2069, by Senator Hoffmann; 2070, by 21 Senator Hoffmann; and now she is explaining 22 2072. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1 Skelos, you were correct on the first two, but 2 the desk has a record of a vote on 2072 3 already. If you would like to retake that vote, 4 I assume that's up to your motion, but that's 5 procedurally where we have been through. 6 The last vote came very quickly 7 with no debate, as you may remember. It was 8 very quickly on -- a motion was read there was 9 no discussion. The vote was taken on a voice 10 vote. Nobody explained their vote, and then we 11 brought up the next one, which is the one we 12 started to engage upon. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: A point of 14 clarification. Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hoffmann. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 20 not -- I'm not trying to -- I'm just trying to 21 keep this procedurally correct, so everybody 22 understands exactly where we are. That's the 23 only reason why the chair has brought this up. 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 2 President. Since both the Majority and the 3 Minority Leaders on the floor have the same 4 records, and I as a sponsor do not recall a vote 5 being taken on the third bill, which is S.2072 6 -- I was speaking on the third bill. There was 7 no vote taken on that bill, to my knowledge. I 8 recall the vote which the Majority Leader called 9 for a party vote on 2069, and then there was a 10 voice vote, I believe, on 2070. I did not hear 11 a party vote on that, and I did not request a 12 slow roll call on that measure. I then rose to 13 speak on 2072, and that vote has not yet taken 14 place. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Skelos, in talking, we could go back and stall 17 the process. Obviously, ask the stenographer 18 for this and do that, but the desk suggests - 19 the Journal clerk is suggesting that we just 20 take up 2072 and take the new vote as being the 21 vote on that rather than what we have recorded 22 at the desk. If that's okay with the Majority 23 Leader and the Minority Leader, that's the way 1 we'll proceed. 2 Senator Paterson, is that 3 agreeable with you? 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 5 President. I think that my records and the 6 Acting Majority Leader's are similar, and what 7 might be in order at this point is that we - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Then we 9 will just entertain a motion to reconsider the 10 vote by which the motion to discharge failed. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: But -- Mr. 12 President. We can do that, but I really would 13 prevail upon the Journal Clerk to take another 14 look at that because I don't remember that vote 15 taking place, and I was paying very strict 16 attention because I wanted to know in which way 17 we were going to cast our vote; and if I'm 18 incorrect, I will certainly yield, but I think 19 that -- being that the Acting Majority Leader 20 sees it the same way, I think that that's 21 probably the way it actually occurred. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos. 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 2 Just so the record is clear, I think, Senator 3 Paterson, if you have no objection and there are 4 no mistakes, why don't we move to reconsider the 5 vote in the event the vote did take place, and 6 then revote on it so that each bill has its full 7 airing and has a vote on it. 8 So on 2072, why don't we 9 reconsider the vote by which the motion failed. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 12 motion to discharge, 2072, failed. 13 Secretary call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll on 15 reconsideration.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is before the house. Excuse me. The motion is 19 before the house. 20 Senator Leichter, you wish to 21 speak on 2072, the motion to discharge? 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I would. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 1 recognizes Senator Leichter on the motion to 2 discharge, Senate 2072. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 4 President. I just want to agree, in part, with 5 Senator Velella. I must say Senator Hoffmann 6 debating with you is indeed tilting at a 7 windmill and, frankly, that's what I found many 8 of your statements, Senator, to be like. Before 9 you get too carried away about the voters 10 returning the Republicans in this house, may I 11 remind somebody who has a district that violates 12 the State Constitution that gerrymandering might 13 have a little bit to do with the majority that 14 is held by the Republicans. 15 Senator, I think what is involved 16 here is sort of this inside Albany politics, and 17 what we have, Senator, is debates -- and I am as 18 guilty as anybody else, I guess, at times - 19 that really have no relevance to the public at 20 large. Makes absolutely no sense. I think the 21 public wants Senator Hoffmann's reform proposals 22 not because they are hers, not because they are 23 Democratic, because it makes good sense, 1 obviously, to have an itemized budget. 2 But I think when we are debating 3 things as who is allowed to go on a bill and 4 when we take pride of the fact that we are no 5 longer having debates in the middle of the night 6 -- and we shouldn't have it in the middle of 7 the night. It was obviously a good step 8 forward, but that doesn't mean that we have 9 reached nirvana; and, Senator, I don't think the 10 public gives a damn, if I may mention it, 11 whether somebody was on your bill on the 48-hour 12 and the fact that you let Democrats on it as if 13 it was this great largesse, and I must say I 14 think the Speaker was incredibly petty - 15 incredibly petty not to let Republicans on the 16 bill. 17 I think we ought to get away from 18 that sort of thing. But I do believe we are 19 discussing some very important matters, and 20 Senator Skelos can say, well, this is only 21 procedural. I don't know, I don't think the 22 public cares if it's procedural or substantive. 23 "Oh, yes, I voted against all 1 these reforms, but I'm for reforms. I just 2 voted against procedure." 3 Come on! Who are we kidding? 4 We're voting on whether we want to have a more 5 open, a more democratic house. 6 Senator Velella, you made a big 7 issue that the Senate Democrats have not opened 8 their conference. I do believe that day you 9 opened your conference and had a nice dog and 10 pony show that our conference was open. Nobody 11 bothered to come to it. But, Senator, I have 12 been at odds, frankly, with some of the members 13 on this side of the aisle because I think we 14 ought to open our conference. I think 15 conferences ought to be open. I think there are 16 sometimes when political issues are discussed, 17 it may close. But when you take a position of 18 whether a bill is going to come to the floor or 19 not, then I think you are really making a 20 decision that affects legislation that the 21 public has a right to know. 22 So I think that these are 23 important issues. I think you can make fun of 1 them. I think Senator DiCarlo can get up and 2 say to Senator Hoffmann -- and she obviously has 3 nice scrapbook -- that, you know, there was an 4 article which mentions Senator Hoffmann as 5 having one of the -- one of the seven Senators 6 -- one of the seven Senators with the worst 7 attendance record. In fact, I thought she had a 8 rather good attendance record. It was like 83 9 percent. It also failed to mention that some of 10 the other Senators mentioned like Senator 11 Stavisky and Senator Gold -- Senator Stavisky 12 was in the hospital. Senator Gold was taking 13 care of a serious family situation. But I 14 certainly give credit to the Senate Majority. 15 You are all here today, and that's certainly to 16 your credit. 17 But it's not to your credit that 18 you are voting down bills that ought to be on 19 the floor and steps that we ought to take, and I 20 think if I take each of you aside individually 21 and say, "Don't you think we ought to have an 22 itemized budget?" you would say yes because how 23 could you be against an itemized budget. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2 any other Senator wishing to speak? 3 Senator Hoffmann to speak on the 4 motion to discharge. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Just on this 6 particular item, I must ask that the record 7 reflect my incredible frustration over the last 8 several years at trying to find out what the 9 budget is for an individual Senator's office 10 expenses and staffing in the aggregate so that I 11 could better apply some identified resources 12 that I chose to not use for newsletter 13 publications. 14 I have not published a newsletter 15 or mailed a newsletter since September of 1990. 16 I have saved several hundred thousand dollars, 17 and I have repeatedly requested of the Majority, 18 who control that portion of our budget -- I have 19 repeatedly requested that some of that savings 20 be allowed to be transferred for staffing, for a 21 laser printer, for upgraded computer equipment, 22 even for things like typewriter ribbons for the 23 typewriters that I have purchased with my own 1 funds in my district office, and I have been 2 rebuffed on every occasion by this Majority 3 Leader and the previous Majority Leader or, to 4 be more accurate, by their deputies to whom they 5 delegate this chore. 6 Now, I find that insulting. But, 7 more importantly, I find it demeaning to the 8 people in Central New York. If they are not too 9 sad about not getting newsletters from me every 10 couple of months, then I think that they should 11 be rewarded with a higher level of constituent 12 service, and I want to be able to address their 13 needs. 14 The district is huge. Regularly, 15 people on my staff travel from 6:00 o'clock in 16 the morning until 10:00 or 11:00 o'clock at 17 night trying to cover all of the events, and I 18 often do the same myself. 19 It would be nice to have some 20 additional staff. It would be nice to be able 21 to have even the same resources or something 22 close to it that other Senators have who simply 23 have the benefit of having an R next to their 1 name while I have a D next to my name. 2 So I really must protest that 3 this lack of an itemized legislative budget 4 serves to totally cloud the issue of disparate 5 resources and an intentional -- and it has to be 6 intentional -- attempt on the part of the 7 Republican leadership of this chamber to make 8 life more difficult for Democratic Senators. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 10 Senator wishing to speak on the motion to 11 discharge? 12 (There was no response.) 13 Hearing none, the chair would 14 remind the members that a vote in the 15 affirmative is a vote to support the motion to 16 discharge and remove the bill from committee. 17 All those in favor of the motion 18 to discharge - 19 Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President. 21 Just to explain my vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll wait for 2 Senator DiCarlo. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 DiCarlo to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR DiCARLO: Yes, Mr. 9 President, to explain my vote. 10 Only because, Senator Leichter, 11 you raised my name, and I just want to be very 12 clear on the point that I was trying to make 13 earlier. I have tremendous respect for all my 14 colleagues in the Senate, and most of my 15 colleagues in the Legislature, and especially 16 those who sit on the other side of the aisle. 17 I in no way was making a point 18 and attacking Senator Hoffmann on any newspaper 19 article. I happen to believe that most of the 20 nonsense you read attacking people in politics 21 is just that -- nonsense. 22 What I objected to was using 23 reporters and newspaper articles as if they were 1 fact and true and quoting from them, when I 2 don't believe most of what is written, 3 especially when it is saying bad things about 4 legislators. I have great respect for all of 5 those people who are mentioned in that news 6 article, especially and including Senator 7 Hoffmann, because I think they work hard to 8 represent their constituents, and I would never 9 use that article. 10 But when they stand up and they 11 quote reporters and other newspaper articles 12 saying nasty things and saying things about 13 colleagues on this side of the aisle, I object 14 to that. But I in no way think that my 15 colleagues on that side of the aisle are not 16 doing what's in the best interests, as they 17 feel, for their constituency. 18 But if you live by the sword, you 19 die by the sword, and I think everyone should 20 remember that. I will vote no on this motion. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 1 President. We'd like to request a party vote in 2 the affirmative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 6 the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will record the party line votes. 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 11 37. Party vote. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 motion is lost. 14 Secretary will read the next 15 motion to discharge on Senate 2073. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 17 Hoffmann, Senate Bill 2073, an act to amend the 18 Election Law, in relation to statements of 19 campaign receipts and expenditures. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 21 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 1 I'd like to state at the outset 2 that I appreciate Senator DiCarlo's 3 clarification on the issue of the newspaper 4 article. But I want to make one very important 5 distinction. I was quoting from newspaper 6 editorials. That is the opinion page in the 7 newspaper. It's different entirely from the 8 news section. In fact, in most cases news 9 reporters very rarely are asked or permitted to 10 write editorials. It's a somewhat rarified 11 environment on the editorial page, and I'm proud 12 of the fact that newspaper editors, not in one 13 or two newspapers but across the state, have 14 chosen to embrace these reforms, and I read into 15 the record their positions because as they were 16 speaking they were directing people to take 17 action. They were using their editorial 18 prerogative, not reporting the news. 19 And, like you, I occasionally 20 find newspaper articles covering the activities 21 of individual legislators to have either a 22 different version or a different slant on 23 something that I have experienced or seen. In 1 the case of the article on the attendance, as 2 several of my colleagues have pointed out, there 3 were apparently some selective explanations or 4 limited explanations on why people did not 5 attend. 6 I have no problem, however, with 7 addressing the issue of attendance. I would 8 like to address the way that our activities, 9 including attendance, have sometimes been very 10 erroneously represented not by the media but by 11 campaign literature and how the people who have 12 been guilty of misrepresentation in an attack 13 piece are very often not identified with that 14 piece. Because of the extremely convoluted way 15 in which the election records of this state are 16 kept, it is often impossible to know who is 17 paying for a negative campaign against a sitting 18 Senator or a negative campaign against a 19 candidate for New York State Senate or New York 20 State Assembly, and I would imagine that some of 21 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 22 would suggest that the Assembly, where the 23 balance of power is reversed from that in this 1 chamber, is guilty of abuses similar to the ones 2 that some of us have observed, and I would not 3 deny that. 4 I believe that it is necessary in 5 the interest of good government and fair 6 campaign practices that the books be open, that 7 the voters of this state should have the ability 8 to know who is paying for a campaign, who is 9 paying for every last dollar of a campaign for 10 any candidate for public office; that there 11 should be no bundling of funds under the 12 umbrella of the Senate Republican Campaign 13 Committee or, for that matter, in the Assembly 14 the Democratic Assembly Campaign Committee. 15 These are the two political 16 action groups that wield the most power here in 17 Albany because they control the legislation. 18 The newspapers would have us believe that's just 19 a position the editorial writers have taken. I 20 don't know if that's why it is that those two 21 political action committees have millions of 22 dollars at their disposal and the minority 23 campaign committees in each house have much 1 less. 2 But there have been numerous 3 documented examples of campaigns being run out 4 of Albany by the political action committees or 5 parties chosen by them, hired by them, paid by 6 them, and the people back home simply don't 7 know. They don't understand that it is somebody 8 in Albany who wants to bring on a new person to 9 play the same old game. Fancy three-colored 10 printing shows up in the mail or shows up in the 11 doorstep in the way of fliers, and there is no 12 indication that it was paid for by funds 13 generated in another part of the state. 14 Meanwhile, the candidate who can only afford a 15 Xeroxed flier and only a couple of them at that 16 appears to be less committed. This candidate is 17 underfinanced, but the public doesn't know where 18 the money is coming from. It is essential that 19 that paper trail be established so people know 20 in advance to whom an office holder will be 21 beholden if elected. 22 I have experienced this. I know 23 other people have. I remember vividly an attack 1 piece that arrived in the mail in my district in 2 one city on the eve -- literally on the eve of 3 the election, and it was made in an anonymous 4 fashion so that my opponent would not be 5 identified with it. In fact, he initially 6 attempted to disavow knowledge of it, and then 7 said yes, he knew something about it. No, he 8 didn't know exactly who had done it. It was 9 clear that somebody else was calling the shots. 10 Even the poor candidate running against me was 11 embarrassed by the very heavy-handed way in 12 which money was being used and a mailing was 13 being sent out without his direct involvement 14 and, certainly, without direct involvement of 15 the people who purported to be supporting him 16 from the 48th Senate District. 17 I clearly have not been targeted 18 as much as some other people have, and other 19 people in the Assembly who sit on the Republican 20 side of the aisle can tell horror stories. The 21 point is that the public should know and the 22 voters should have access to that information 23 long before they go into the ballot box to vote. 1 So I would hope that all of my 2 colleagues support Senate 2073 today, and I 3 would like to point out that, unlike the other 4 bills that we have discussed, this one has the 5 unique distinction of having been passed already 6 by the Assembly, so there is a demonstrated 7 willingness on the part of some members of the 8 Majority in that house to correct this 9 inadequacy in our Election Law, and I thank my 10 Assembly colleague and neighbor, Joan 11 Christensen, who overlaps a portion of the 48th 12 Senate District and who succeeded me on the 13 Syracuse City Council, for having had the good 14 judgment to introduce this measure in the 15 Assembly. I thank the members of the Assembly 16 for supporting it, and I would ask all of my 17 colleagues in the Senate to please support this 18 measure, to discharge it to the floor where it 19 can be voted upon by the full Senate. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 motion is to discharge Senate 2073. All those 22 in favor of the motion to discharge, signify by 23 saying aye. 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 3 the affirmative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 8 the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 10 the party line vote. Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 12 37. Party vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is lost. 15 The Secretary will continue to 16 read the motions to discharge. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2074, an act to amend the 19 Election Law, in relation to political 20 advertisement in literature. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Hoffmann. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 1 President. Point of clarification. I wonder 2 could you tell me from the desk, please. We've 3 had, I believe, five -- four party votes, and 4 one voice vote. Are there any exceptions on 5 either side of the aisle in these party votes? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, there 7 are none. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: There are no 9 exceptions. Thank you, Mr. President. 10 Senate 2074 is the companion bill 11 to the bill just -- to the resolution just 12 defeated -- the motion just defeated, and this 13 would require all campaign literature be filed 14 in one place, so you would have two means of 15 knowing who is responsible for running a 16 campaign, by the filings of the contributions 17 and by the literature having been placed in the 18 files at the Board of Elections as required by 19 law. 20 Right now, it's possible for 21 literature to be filed in a central committee or 22 a ghost committee category that has little 23 bearing on the candidate who benefitted from 1 that literature, just as the expenditures are 2 similarly filed in very confusing locations, and 3 I would ask my colleagues to recognize the 4 obvious advantage of having all campaign 5 literature readily available, certainly for 6 scholars and political scientists. How could we 7 possibly question the appropriateness of having 8 this measure in a good housekeeping manner pass 9 so that we could all see by a reasonable request 10 at the Board of Elections what type of 11 literature various candidates have used in the 12 past. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 question is on the motion to discharge Senate 15 2074. 16 All those in favor, signify by 17 saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed, nay. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 21 the affirmative, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 Record the party line vote. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 4 the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 6 the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 8 37. Party vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 motion is lost. 11 The Secretary will continue to 12 call the motions to discharge. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 14 Hoffmann, Senate Print 2071, an act to amend the 15 Legislative law, in relation to Senate and 16 Assembly officers. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 18 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 2071 would eliminate those 22 special payments known as payment in lieu of 23 salary for legislators who serve at the 1 political behest of the leadership in each house 2 in a political function. 3 Now, I make the distinction 4 between committee lulus and non-committee or 5 political lulus. This came to my attention a 6 few years ago as an area that was ripe for abuse 7 when the previous Majority Leader enacted a 8 whole series of new "payment in lieu of" 9 measures upon his ascension as Majority Leader. 10 Senator Marino created several titles, and it 11 was very difficult for members of this chamber 12 and for members of the press to understand what 13 these titles meant, what the duties were. In 14 fact, there was a freedom of information request 15 at one point by a good government group or 16 Change New York and a couple of other -- I 17 believe Change New York made a request for a job 18 description on several of these purely political 19 titles, and they were rebuffed. 20 I still don't know what it is 21 that some of my colleagues do for an increase in 22 their compensation. Now, I realize people are 23 somewhat uncomfortable discussing this. It gets 1 kind of close to home. I want to make it clear 2 that I believe we should always be a part-time 3 legislature, and one of the ways to insure that 4 a part-time legislature is going to do the best 5 job it can for the people of this state is to 6 reward appropriately with additional 7 compensation those legislators who undertake 8 additional legislative responsibility. 9 I understand that was the premise 10 behind the whole initial concept of creating 11 "payment in lieu of" a number of years ago. 12 Those people who undertook committee 13 responsibilities, committee chairmanships or 14 ranking Minority members being the party 15 equivalent in each house were given additional 16 compensation because of their legislative 17 responsibility in that specialized area. 18 I'm reminded, because his name 19 was mentioned a little while ago, of the late 20 Senator Donovan, who as Chairman of the 21 Education Committee traveled not only across 22 this state but around the country and even made 23 a few international visits in his study of 1 education. He was regarded as a national expert 2 in the field of education. For him to do this, 3 meant that he had to forsake the ability to earn 4 income outside the Legislature because he 5 committed far more than 40 or even 60 hours a 6 week to his job. He worked tirelessly. But as 7 the Education Chairman, he received additional 8 compensation, and I support that concept for 9 Senator Donovan, for the current Education 10 Chairman, and for all of those Senators who hold 11 the difficult challenge of being a chair of a 12 committee, a substantive committee. 13 But I can not understand why the 14 taxpayers of this state should be billed to give 15 an additional reward to members of the 16 Legislature whose duties are purely political. 17 I believe that should come out of some political 18 war chest, and the taxpayers should not be 19 billed. I suppose you could make the case that 20 two or three are necessary in each house for 21 housekeeping. I guess you have to have a 22 Majority and Minority Leader. 23 I don't know, I still have 1 trouble with this whole idea that we have to 2 have party structure at all. When I was asked 3 earlier by Senator Velella about whether we had 4 a meeting to discuss these reform measures prior 5 to their discharge in a closed-door party 6 conference, I told him yes, and it's true 7 because there was never any other opportunity 8 for meetings because the committee chairmen 9 chose not bring them up in the committees in 10 which they are entombed. 11 But I still believe that the 12 committees are the rightful place to do 13 business, and I would give additional 14 compensation to members of committees who would 15 do their jobs and entertain issues such as these 16 and run those committees in a fair and open 17 way. I do not believe the taxpayers of this 18 state begrudge people a fair salary for doing 19 reasonable legislative activity, but I do think 20 that it is asking too much of the taxpayers to 21 subsidize a political fiefdom that operates 22 under the guise of a legislative lulu. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 1 is on the motion to discharge Senate 2071. 2 All those in favor, signify by 3 saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (Response of "Nay.") 7 The motion is defeated. 8 Secretary will continue to call 9 the motions to discharge. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Leichter. We have four motions to discharge at 12 the desk. Would you like to take them in any 13 particular order? 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 15 President. Thank you, and I will do these 16 quickly. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Which one 18 would you like us to read first, Senator 19 Leichter? 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: If we could 21 begin with Senate 2323A. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read. 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2 Leichter, Senate Print 2323A, an act to amend 3 the Environmental Conservation Law, in relation 4 to granting private citizens the right to 5 initiate civil enforcement actions for 6 violations of such law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 8 recognizes Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. On 10 the motion. We've had this before. 11 This is the bill that would allow 12 citizens to sue for the enforcement of 13 environmental laws. It's a provision that 14 exists in 30 states. It's incredibly important 15 because I think that the people of this state 16 want to assure clean air and clean water, and 17 this will give them the tools to do it. 18 It's a bill that in the past has 19 had very broad support from numerous groups, the 20 Alliance for Consumer Rights, Environmental Law 21 Council, Citizens Campaign for the Environment, 22 Citizen Action Clear Water, Environmental 23 Defense Fund, Environmental Planning Lobby, 1 Hudson River Sloop, the ILGWU, National Audubon 2 Society, National Resource Defense Council, New 3 York Public Interest Research Group, Sierra 4 Club. 5 And, again, this is not a 6 procedural vote. This is a vote to see whether 7 you want to move forward towards having better 8 enforcement of the environmental laws in the 9 State of New York, and I hope very much and urge 10 all of you that this bill will be put on the 11 floor. 12 Let me say that I read in the 13 paper recently that Governor Pataki expressed 14 some interest and support for the bill. It's 15 certainly one that the people of the State of 16 New York want. 17 I move the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Oppenheimer. 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 I feel so strongly about this 23 bill, and particularly now. We are 1 experiencing, because of cutbacks, a lot of the 2 officers who would normally be out minding the 3 environmental health of the State of New York - 4 we see a large number of cutbacks in the people 5 who would be watching that only good things were 6 happening and bad things were not. 7 Since we are in a time of fiscal 8 constraint, since we may not have enough 9 environmental officers out there watchdogging, 10 this is more important than ever that we give 11 the power to citizens to watch over and monitor 12 our environment. There are so many cases of 13 point pollution, of non-point pollution, so many 14 areas that need to be watchdogged that cannot be 15 because of the costs involved. If we gave 16 citizens the power to go out there and bring 17 suits, we would see greater compliance with our 18 Environmental Law and less expense for the 19 government to put the conservation officers out 20 there to monitor it. 21 I think it's more important now 22 that we have this bill, and this is not exactly 23 a unique or novel bill. It is the law in so 1 many states. I believe 30 states. And, if we 2 could avail ourselves of this same option, this 3 law, I think we would see an improvement in the 4 adherence to our Environmental Law, and it would 5 not cost the state a penny. This is a win-win 6 situation. I certainly hope we will have some 7 support for it, and I believe the Governor is 8 interested. I hope we can move this this year. 9 It really saves the state money and saves the 10 environment. 11 Thanks. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 question is on the motion to discharge Senate 14 2323A. 15 All those in favor, signify by 16 saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed, nay. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 23 the affirmative, Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 . 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 6 the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Party 8 line with exceptions, Senator Paterson? 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22. Nays 10 38. Party vote with exception. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 motion is failed. 13 Senator Leichter, would you like 14 to take up 2726 next? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'll ask 18 the Secretary to read. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 20 Leichter, Senate Bill 2726, an act to amend the 21 State Finance Law, in relation to requiring that 22 budget bills making appropriations or 23 reappropriations to the Legislature contain 1 specific categories and amounts of expenditures. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 3 recognizes Senator Leichter. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 5 President. This is really another bill that 6 provides for an itemized budget, and we debated 7 this earlier when we had one of Senator 8 Hoffmann's motions, so I'm not going to debate 9 it now. 10 The reason that I'm also moving 11 this bill, it's worded somewhat differently. 12 This is the bill that most of the Democratic 13 colleagues have endorsed, and I think it would 14 give us a workable way to have an itemized 15 budget so that we in the Legislature do 16 precisely what we ask the Executive to do, what 17 we ask the Judiciary to do; and that is, to have 18 an informative budget, one that not only the 19 members can understand but that the public can 20 understand. 21 I move the motion. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 motion is to discharge Senate 2726A. 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 3 the affirmative. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 5 the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 10 the party line votes. Announce the results. 11 Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President. Just to explain my vote very 14 briefly. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Dollinger to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Seems to me 18 that Senator Leichter's motion to discharge a 19 bill that requires itemized legislative budgets 20 is the step down the road to TQM that we all 21 need to follow. If you believe in the 22 discussion the last decade about improved 23 management, better quality management, better 1 understanding of financial affairs, you would 2 know that this is what we should be doing in our 3 management of this house. There's just 4 absolutely no other way to do it. 5 I will be voting aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 7 the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 9 37. Party vote. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is lost. 12 Senator Leichter, would you like 13 to take up 3641 next? 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. Let's do 15 6608. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will 17 ask the Secretary to read the motion to 18 discharge on Senate 6608. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 20 Leichter, Senate Print 6608, an act to amend the 21 Legislative Law, in relation to creating a 22 Senate Management Council. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 1 recognizes Senator Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President. This bill would set up a management 4 council with representatives from both the 5 Majority and the Minority to see that the 6 operations of the Senate as far as the 7 distribution of the resources, the efficient 8 operation of the facilities and offices which 9 provide support services for Senators other than 10 their own offices be run in an appropriate fair 11 manner. 12 This is a -- this follows a 13 system and a procedure that exists in the 14 Congress, and whatever criticism you can make of 15 the Congress, at least they treat members 16 fairly. 17 I want to say there were a lot of 18 self-laudatory comments earlier today by Senator 19 Skelos and Senator Velella, and there were even 20 some generous -- I thought overly generous 21 comments from some members on this side of the 22 aisle of how much we have achieved. 23 When you say, well, what have we 1 achieved, somebody will say, "Well, we now have 2 a rule that we can not pass legislation in the 3 middle of the night." You know, that's a 4 pretty, pretty small achievement. I mean if 5 that is the reed that we're holding on to, it's 6 not going to give us much support, not when 7 there's so many things wrong with the management 8 of this house, when the procedures are not only 9 so closed but when they are so biased, when our 10 expenditures are really not subject to public 11 scrutiny, I think we have a long way to go. 12 I think Senator Bruno came, and 13 he made some promises when he took over as 14 Majority Leader. I think the steps that have 15 been taken were appropriate, but it's really 16 like the first two or three steps on a fairly 17 long journey. We have an awfully long way to 18 go. Management Councils would certainly be one 19 of the things that ought to be done. 20 Let me just mention one thing. 21 It's late, and I don't want to go on at length. 22 But I went over on a trip to the Massachusetts 23 Legislature which was arranged by a member of 1 the Assembly, and I must tell you I was 2 astounded, simply astounded, how further ahead 3 they were than we were in democratic procedures; 4 and when I told them what some of our procedures 5 were -- these were Democrats and Republicans - 6 they couldn't believe it. 7 They could not believe that it is 8 almost impossible to amend a bill in this 9 house. They say, for instance, that their 10 budget is amended in numerous respects. People 11 come up and make proposals. Their committee 12 hearings not only are open to the public but the 13 public is given a chance to testify. They have 14 equal resources for both Majority and Minority 15 members. They have a televised debate. They 16 have from gavel to gavel. The only televised 17 debate we have here is when one of the members 18 of the Majority side wants to have his speech 19 recorded so that he can send it to his local 20 television station. 21 The other day I ran up there 22 because I saw somebody making some videos. I 23 had never -- I recognized that they were not 1 part of any commercial station. They were 2 taking some videos of Senator Nozzolio. I 3 assume it was at the Senator's request. I don't 4 know why the public ought to pay for that, 5 Senator. 6 Well, you are shaking your head, 7 but I checked into it, and the person said, "I 8 was asked to come here to take a video of 9 Senator Nozzolio." Why can't we televise all of 10 the proceedings of the house, all members when 11 they get up so that the public can see how we 12 carry on our duties? 13 We really have such a long way to 14 go before we act in a way that the public can 15 look at us and say this is what a legislative, a 16 deliberative body should be like. 17 Senate Management Council is 18 certainly one of the things that we ought to 19 have, and I move my motion. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 motion is to discharge Senate 6608. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 1 will call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 4 the negative. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Party vote 6 in the affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 8 the party line votes. Announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 10 37. Party vote. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 motion is lost. 13 Secretary will read the motion to 14 discharge on Senate 3641. 15 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 16 Leichter, Senate Print 3641, an act to amend the 17 Tax Law and the Administrative Code of the City 18 of New York, in relation to eliminating the 19 deduction for amounts expended for tobacco 20 advertising. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 1 President. I regret that we're doing this 2 motion at this hour; but, unfortunately, we were 3 forced to make all the motions of discharge on 4 one particular day. 5 Unlike, oh, I think all of the 6 other motions which we've had, which really 7 dealt more with how this house functions, the 8 openness with which government is to be 9 conducted, this one deals with a very specific 10 substantive issue, an attempt to try to 11 discourage smoking in this state by taking away 12 the deduction for tobacco companies for 13 advertising in this state. It would deny them 14 both the New York State and New York City 15 deduction that they get for advertising. 16 As we know, the advertising, of 17 course, aims to get more people to smoke, but 18 what is particularly reprehensible is that much 19 of this advertising has been aimed at young 20 people, and we have a serious problem of 21 teenagers smoking, particularly teenage girls. 22 Smoking is probably -- well, it 23 is something that is extremely -- has extreme 1 health impact, costs us a great deal of money in 2 this state for having to take care of people who 3 suffer respiratory ailments or develop very 4 serious ailments and die as a result of 5 smoking. We ought to discourage it, but at the 6 very least, we should not allow tobacco 7 companies, in effect, to be subsidized by the 8 public by getting a deduction for advertisements 9 that gets people to do something as unhealthy as 10 smoking. 11 Move the motion, Mr. President. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger on the motion. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to be 17 heard on the motion. 18 I agree with Senator Leichter. 19 It is really regrettable that this comes up at 20 this hour because many of our colleagues who I 21 think would be here to join and perhaps break 22 party ranks on this issue, who believe as you 23 and I do that this is really one of the critical 1 health problems that our nation faces because 2 what we have is a government-subsidized-at-the 3 time-of-production, a government-subsidized-at 4 the-time-of-marketing activity which 5 substantially damages this nation's health. 6 And it starts with children. It 7 starts with Joe Camel. It starts with Virginia 8 Slims. It starts with the Marlboro man, and you 9 can go run down the list of the advertising 10 tools that have been used to hook children on 11 the addictive drug of nicotine. 12 As the ranking Democrat on the 13 Senate Health Committee, this issue deserves 14 more attention. I point out that the 15 advertising even encourages criminal activity 16 because, as we all know, you can not sell 17 tobacco products to children under the age of 18 18, and I believe that the subsidy ought to 19 end. 20 I believe the subsidy for 21 marketing ought to end. We should put this 22 motion on the floor, should put the bill on the 23 floor and have a debate about whether a drug 1 that is addictive to our population, which 2 causes millions and millions and millions of 3 dollars of health care to be spent in this 4 state, ought to be subsidized by public tax 5 deductions for their advertising. 6 I would close with one other 7 thought. If you need any example of why the 8 tobacco industry no longer should have any 9 benefit from government, read the article in 10 Vanity Fair this month about the gentleman who 11 came forward to testify against the tobacco 12 companies. The research and development 13 director of one of the major tobacco companies 14 has come forward to testify against them in 15 depositions and to support seven states in this 16 nation who are taking the affirmative case 17 against the tobacco companies forward by seeking 18 to recover from them the enormous billions of 19 dollars of cost that those companies have 20 foisted on the American public under the guise 21 of being cool and smoking and told the people of 22 this nation -- deluded them, through mass 23 marketing, that this is somehow fashionable. 1 It is deadly. It is 2 distasteful. It is something America must stop, 3 and it starts by bringing to the floor of this 4 chamber a bill that would disallow tax 5 deductions for luring our children into a health 6 risk that will perhaps impair their future and 7 cost all of us millions of dollars. 8 Let's put a stop to this now. 9 Put the bill on the floor. Let's have a debate 10 about the future of king tobacco in New York, 11 and let's send a message to all of those 12 companies that the buck stops here, and we're 13 not going to allow them to deduct the bucks that 14 they are putting into destroying the health of 15 our children. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 question is on the motion to discharge Senate 18 3641. 19 All those in favor, signify by 20 saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed, nay. 23 (Response of "Nay.") 1 The motion is lost. 2 Senator Stachowski, we have two 3 additional motions, one by Senator Waldon, also 4 one left by Senator Dollinger. What is your 5 preference as far as the order? 6 (Response inaudible). 7 All right. I'll ask the 8 Secretary to read the motion to discharge Senate 9 6456. 10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 11 Dollinger, Senate Print 6456, Concurrent 12 Resolution of the Senate and Assembly, proposing 13 amendments to Section 11 of Article 7 of the 14 Constitution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The chair 16 recognizes Senator Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President. I just want to thank you on behalf 19 of perhaps this side of the aisle for your 20 patience in handling these motions today. 21 But this bill, this motion gives 22 the State Senate an opportunity to do something 23 that I think it might be very comfortable in 1 doing, going back to the 19th century. 2 In fact, let's go back to 1846, a 3 good ripe old year, a time when conservatism 4 ruled the land, when the Republican view or the 5 view of let's not take things too far too fast, 6 let's not make too many changes; let's just sort 7 of slowly go through the process and see what 8 good government can give us. 9 In 1846, the New York State 10 Legislature and the voters of this state decided 11 that they were going to reverse a trend that had 12 occurred for 20 years. From 1826 to 1842, the 13 New York State Legislature did not raise taxes. 14 Not a penny in tax. Not one penny in tax. They 15 had tariffs, but they didn't have to charge any 16 taxes. 17 "Why?" might you ask, in this 18 time when the state was growing by leaps and 19 bounds. We were truly the Empire State. The 20 canal had been put in place. The birth of the 21 railroad was coming. The birth of the steam 22 engine driving the packets from Albany to New 23 York City was in full bloom. Why didn't the 1 State Legislature raise taxes? 2 The answer is very, very simple. 3 For 16 years, the State of New York simply 4 borrowed every penny it needed to meet every 5 single expense that it had to pay. The 6 consequence was that in about 1843, there was a 7 crisis in liquidity in New York State. The 8 banks called the debt. 9 The state went virtually 10 bankrupt, causing a constitutional convention to 11 be called by the voters and by the State 12 Legislature in which they added one plank to the 13 New York State Constitution, only one. There 14 was only one ballot proposition put forward. 15 That ballot proposition said, no more will we 16 allow the State Legislature to float general 17 obligation bonds. Instead, we will require the 18 voters of this state to approve that debt before 19 it becomes legally binding. 20 In 1846, the voters of this state 21 took that constitutional amendment, made it a 22 part of our State Constitution; and, lo and 23 behold, for about 120 years it worked very well 1 in putting restraints on the ability of the 2 Legislature to commit the state to long-term 3 expenditures through long-term bonds and 4 financing. 5 What they didn't count on in 1846 6 was the ingenuity of this Legislature and the 7 ingenuity of this government to get around that 8 prohibition on public debt in the State 9 Constitution; and, as a consequence, for the 10 last 20 years, the State of New York has engaged 11 in a back-door borrowing policy which, frankly, 12 accounts for our abysmally low bond rating and, 13 I believe, has astounded almost everyone in that 14 little part of New York they call Wall Street. 15 When they look at our bond 16 rating, they look at billions and billions of 17 dollars of expenditures committed for 10, 15, 18 20, 30 years, none of it backed by the full 19 faith and credit of the state that can only be 20 given by a plebiscite on a bond issue, by a vote 21 of the people. 22 What this motion does today is to 23 seek to put before this Senate exactly what the 1 Legislature and the people thought they had 2 approved in 1846, a ban on the use of back-door 3 borrowing as a way to finance the state's 4 expenses, as a way to finance the state's 5 operation, to ban that back-door borrowing and 6 require, once again, the spirit of 1846 in that 7 good old day in New York State when the voters 8 alone would have the power to control public 9 debt. 10 I think our history in the last 11 20 years is a disgrace. I think we have used 12 every possible tool to get around it and, in my 13 judgment, wrongfully so. This bill would give 14 us an opportunity to restore to the people the 15 power to decide when and if New York will use 16 its long-term borrowing powers. 17 I will close with this note. We 18 have had a debate, I guess, all today about 19 whether this is substance or procedure. I 20 clearly understand why there may be 37 members 21 in this body who would prefer that all of this 22 be wrapped into the bundle of procedure. 23 From my point of view and I guess 1 from the remainder of those 24 members, this is 2 as substantive as it gets. This is the only 3 chance we get to ask the Majority. You control 4 the agendas of the committees. You control the 5 agenda of the Senate. We now ask you to put 6 this on your agenda to show your faith with the 7 people of New York to take this opportunity to 8 be heard. 9 It's your only opportunity to be 10 heard. It's your only chance. You want to ban 11 back-door borrowing, this is your chance. This 12 is your opportunity. You've clearly got a 13 chance to do it. There is a way to do it. Vote 14 yes on this motion. Put it on the floor. 15 Let's hear you all resoundingly 16 tell everybody from Wall Street to Niagara 17 Falls, from Plattsburgh to Jamestown. Let's 18 tell everybody in the four corners of this state 19 that we want to cure our bad old habits, the bad 20 old habits we acquired in the last 130 years, 21 and we want to return to that good old time in 22 1846 when the people not the politicians held 23 the power of the purse. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 question is on the motion to discharge Senate 3 6456. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 5 the affirmative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 10 the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the party line votes. Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23. Nays 14 37. Party vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 motion is lost. 17 The Secretary will read the 18 motion to discharge on Senate 1915B. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 20 Waldon, Senate Print 1915B, an act to amend the 21 General Construction Law, in relation to 22 establishing Native American Day as a public 23 holiday. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 2 recognizes Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 4 President. This is the last motion. I was 5 wondering what the score was. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson, let me just remark. The score is - 8 I'm not sure exactly, but this move to open up 9 government has allowed rain to start coming in 10 from the ceiling, so I don't know whether we 11 want to continue or not. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Then I feel 13 like we're in the NCAA finals, Mr. President. I 14 think it's 12 to nothing, and so we're sending 15 up a pinch hitter. Senator Waldon, 16 unfortunately, had to be excused due to illness 17 today, and he has a motion that would make a 18 statewide holiday, which I think should be 19 tomorrow, but Senator Waldon would like it to be 20 the fourth Saturday in September. The fourth 21 Saturday in September would be a statewide 22 holiday in honor of Native Americans who lived 23 in New York before the settlement in 1607 and in 1 1610, and these individuals who worked very hard 2 all through the centuries intervening have 3 helped to make New York great and helped to 4 build America. 5 Unfortunately and tragically, 6 many of them lost their lives in disputes with 7 the settlers that came from other lands. Many 8 of them were the recipients of bad treatment and 9 reneged promises, and we would like to recognize 10 them. Senator Waldon is aware that perhaps a 11 statewide holiday may not be able to be achieved 12 in this fashion; however, we feel that this 13 motion is important to put on the record and 14 bring to public attention so that perhaps we, as 15 a state, as great as our resources are and as 16 proud as our tradition has been since our state 17 government was founded, would like to find a way 18 to find accommodation for so many who have given 19 so much for the improvement and the betterment 20 of the quality of life all around New York. 21 And so we offer this motion at 22 this time, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 1 question is on the motion to discharge Senate 2 1915B. 3 All those in favor, signify by 4 saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (Response of "Nay.") 8 On a close vote, Senator 9 Paterson, the motion is lost. 10 That completes the series of 11 motions to discharge. 12 Senator Skelos, we do have one 13 housekeeping item, if we could return to motions 14 and resolutions. 15 Chair would recognize Senator 16 Tully. 17 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. On behalf of Senator Hoblock, on 19 page 30, I offer the following amendments to 20 Calendar Number 614, Senate Print Number 2612, 21 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 22 Third Reading Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1 Amendments to Calendar Number 614 are received 2 and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the 3 Third Reading Calendar. 4 Senator Onorato, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 6 Before we adjourn, we'd like to adjourn on a 7 happy note. We've had enough dampness put on 8 our motions to discharge today. Would you 9 inform the Office of General Services to please 10 fix the leak in the roof. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 12 you, Senator Onorato. 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 15 There being no further business, I move we 16 adjourn until Wednesday, April 17, 1996 at 11:00 17 a.m. sharp. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 19 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until 20 tomorrow, Wednesday, April 17th at 11:00 a.m. 21 (Whereupon, at 5:58 p.m., Senate 22 adjourned.) 23