Tuesday, June 4, 1996

6372 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 4, 1996 10 10:05 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN A. DeFRANCISCO, Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 6373 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 The Senate will come to order. Would you please 4 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 5 Allegiance. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 The invocation today will be 9 given by Reverend Pat Bumgardner from the 10 Metropolitan Community Church of New York City 11 from the 30th Senatorial District. 12 REVEREND PAT BUMGARDNER: Let us 13 pray. 14 O God, we come before You this 15 morning, Your servants, called out to act justly 16 and love tenderly and walk humbly in Your 17 presence, and we seek in this moment the 18 blessing of Your holy spirit, that the words we 19 utter today and the decisions we make might 20 truly honor our call. 21 Give us all the courage in these 22 times of growing homophobia and racism and 23 intolerance for differing religious traditions 6374 1 and practices and beliefs to stand true to Your 2 vision of just and equal accord and protection 3 and care for all Your children. 4 Give us the courage and 5 conviction necessary to be bold in speaking and 6 acting, to legislatively protect and care for 7 all people, all domestic relationships, all 8 children, all families, including those of our 9 lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender 10 constituents. Give us courage always to speak 11 against violence and act for just and right 12 relationships among all groups. 13 We make this prayer this morning 14 trusting in Your power alone and in the name of 15 all that is good and holy. Amen. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 17 Reading of the Journal. 18 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 19 Monday, June 3rd. The Senate met pursuant to 20 adjournment, Senator Kuhl in the Chair upon 21 designation of the Temporary President. The 22 Journal of Sunday, June 2nd, was read and 23 approved. On motion, the Senate adjourned. 6375 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 3 as read. 4 Presentation of petitions. 5 Messages from the Assembly. 6 Messages from the Governor. 7 Reports of standing committees. 8 Reports of select committees. 9 Communications and reports from 10 state officers. 11 Motions and resolutions. 12 Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 14 President. On behalf of Senator Lack, I wish to 15 call up his bill, Print Number 6301, recalled 16 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 18 The Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 570, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6301, an act 21 in relation to granting the Department of 22 Transportation. 23 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 6376 1 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 2 bill was passed. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 Call the roll on reconsideration. 5 (The Secretary called the roll on 6 reconsideration.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 8 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 9 now offer the following amendments. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 11 The amendments are received. 12 Senator Tully. 13 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 14 President. On behalf of Senator Stafford, on 15 page 43, I offer the following amendments to 16 Calendar Number 1148, Senate Print Number 5549 17 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 18 Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 The amendments are received. 21 Senator Wright. 22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 23 on behalf of Senator Hoblock, please place a 6377 1 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 887. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 3 The sponsor's star is so placed. 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: On behalf of 5 Senator Maziarz, please remove the sponsor's 6 star from Calendar Number 833. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 The sponsor's star is so removed. 9 SENATOR WRIGHT: And on behalf of 10 Senator Libous, please remove the sponsor's 11 stars from Calendar Numbers 191, 336, 348, 364, 12 714 and 757. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 14 The sponsor's stars on those calendar numbers 15 are removed. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Senator Libous 17 thanks you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 19 And I'm appreciative of all of his work. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 22 believe that there is a privileged resolution at 23 the desk by Senator DeFrancisco. I would ask 6378 1 that the title be read and that we move for its 2 immediate adoption. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 The Secretary will -- the Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 DeFrancisco, Legislative Resolution honoring 7 Vera House, Incorporated of Syracuse, New York, 8 an agency that works to end domestic violence on 9 the occasion of the kick-off of its White Ribbon 10 campaign which will run June 8 through 16, 11 1996. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Senator DeFrancisco. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. I'd 15 like to speak briefly on the resolution. 16 The reason why I'm wearing the 17 white ribbon is that an organization that seeks 18 to prevent and assist women who have been 19 victims of domestic violence, the Vera House in 20 Syracuse, started a White Ribbon campaign and 21 that White Ribbon campaign is a campaign where 22 generally men but also women wear white ribbons 23 in order to emphasize the importance of 6379 1 eradicating this sickness in our community known 2 as domestic violence. 3 This White Ribbon campaign 4 actually started in Canada in 1990, when a male 5 college student killed 14 women, and it was an 6 outrage in that community, and the men began 7 wearing white ribbons to protest that activity 8 and to bring awareness to the rest of the 9 community about the importance of eradicating 10 domestic violence. 11 I have provided a white ribbon 12 for each of the Senators, and the period of time 13 when these white ribbons will be worn in central 14 New York and hopefully now throughout the state 15 is June 8th through June 16th, and I would 16 appreciate all of you participating in this very 17 worthwhile cause. 18 Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Thank 20 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 21 The question is on the 22 resolution. All those in favor signify by 23 saying aye. 6380 1 (Response of "Aye".) 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 The resolution is adopted. 5 Senator Paterson, did you have 6 comments, sir? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just 8 wanted to congratulate Senator DeFrancisco for 9 working on this subject of domestic violence 10 which more and more we're finding is entrenched 11 in our society, an incident that occurs every 15 12 seconds that affects three to four million women 13 a year. Ten deaths of women a day contribute to 14 domestic violence, and the staggering statistic 15 that we who in New York City learn, that 20 to 16 25 percent of all public hospital emergency room 17 treatments are interventions related to domestic 18 violence. 19 There was a statement recently 20 that welfare causes domestic violence. It 21 really is quite the opposite. The fact is that 22 the women who are injured, 20 percent of them 23 lose their jobs. 3- to $5 billion a year are 6381 1 estimated in labor costs related to domestic 2 violence, and the fact is that unfortunately 3 many of those women lose their jobs and lose 4 their careers and opportunities because of this 5 menace that will really envelop all of our 6 society because children are affected. Children 7 who have witnessed domestic violence are more 8 susceptible to becoming part of those actions 9 themselves and also the accompanying vices of 10 substance abuse, violent crime, juvenile 11 delinquency and suicide. 12 So this is an important week, and 13 I'm very happy that Senator DeFrancisco has 14 involved all of us, and we probably need to be 15 looking into this issue in our own districts in 16 our own ways, but hopefully to bring the 17 statistics down and to improve the quality of 18 life for men and women who live in our society. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Thank 20 you, Senator Paterson and thank you, Senator 21 DeFrancisco. 22 The resolution is adopted. 23 Senator Bruno, are you ready for 6382 1 the calendar? 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 3 believe there is a privileged resolution at the 4 desk by Senator Connor. I would ask that the 5 title be read and that we move for its immediate 6 adoption. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Connor, Legislative Resolution commemorating the 11 Inaugural National Puerto Rican Day Parade to be 12 held in New York City on June 9, 1996. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 14 question is on the resolution. All in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The resolution is adopted. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 22 can we at this time take up the non 23 controversial calendar. 6383 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 4 Calendar Number 306, by Senator Tully, Senate 5 Print 4578-B, an act to amend the Vehicle and 6 Traffic Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 331, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4588, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 16 issuance of licenses. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it 20 aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 347, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 653-A, an 23 act to amend the Public Health Law. 6384 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay it 4 aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 380, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2784-A, an 7 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 8 relation to eligibility. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 496, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 2978-A, an 21 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 22 allowing a child. 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay it aside. 6385 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 2 the bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 538, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5766-C, an 5 act to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle 6 and Traffic Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 1, 15 Senator Wright recorded in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 609, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 447-A, an 20 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 21 creating the crime of placing a false bomb. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 23 the last section. 6386 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first day of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 626, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 391, an act 12 to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to 13 establishing a task force. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 23 bill is passed. 6387 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 744, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1386, an act 3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 6 the bill aside. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 8 would you star that bill at the request of the 9 sponsor. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 11 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 758, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 7193-A, an 14 act to amend the General Business Law, in 15 relation to the disclosure of motor vehicle 16 registration costs. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6388 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 825, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3458-A, an 6 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation 7 to the application of Article IX of such law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 843, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7310, an act 20 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 21 relation to restricting the weights of certain 22 vehicles. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 6389 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 874, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2529 - 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 13 please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 15 the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 882, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2790, an 18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 19 population requirements. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6390 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 888, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6055-A - 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 12 the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 922, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7237, an 15 act to repeal Paragraph C of Subdivision (2). 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 6391 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 945, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7368-A, an 5 act to amend the Village Law, in relation to 6 propositions. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 971, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 6714, an 19 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation 20 to designation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6392 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 982, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7320, an 10 act to amend the Education Law and the Mental 11 Hygiene Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 15 act shall take effect September 1. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 990, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6769-A, an 6393 1 act to amend Chapter 812 of the Laws of 1987. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1009, by Senator Maziarz - 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay it aside 15 for the day, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 17 the bill aside for the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1022, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 20 Assembly Print 10508, an act legalizing, 21 certifying and confirming the acts of St. 22 Johnsville. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 6394 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 9 the bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1069, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7432 - 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay the bill 13 aside for the day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 15 the bill aside for the day. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an 18 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in 19 relation to deleting the value limitation. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay the bill 21 aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 23 the bill aside. 6395 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1090, by Senator Sears, Senate Print 1396-B, an 3 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 4 authorizing counties. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect on the first day of 9 November. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1121, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 6309-A, 18 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and 19 the Family Court Act. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6396 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1125, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 329, an act 9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 10 relation to pedestrians' right of way in 11 crosswalks. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay the bill 13 aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 15 the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1127, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 339-A, an 18 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation 19 to expanding the definition. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect September 1. 6397 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. On 8 Calendar 1127, ayes 43, nays 1, Senator Wright 9 recorded in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1139, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3534, an act 14 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 15 relation to authorizing. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 6398 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1142, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4050-B, an 5 act to amend -- an act to amend the Highway Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Farley. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: I would like to 18 be recorded in the negative on 1127. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 20 Without objection, Senator Farley will be 21 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 22 1127. 23 The Secretary will read. 6399 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1143, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4118-A, an 3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1145, Senator Farley, Senate Print 4542, an act 16 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 17 relation to authorizing. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 23 the roll. 6400 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1150, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5838-B, 7 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 8 relation to restricting. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1154, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6497, an 21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 22 relation to reports. 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Lay the bill 6401 1 aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 3 the bill aside for the day. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1156, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 6743, an act 6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 7 relation to the imposition of fines. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the first day of 12 November. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1, 17 Senator Kuhl recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1157, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6817-A, an 22 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 23 relation to providing for a distinctive "Foreign 6402 1 Organization" license plate. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 1, 10 Senator Tully recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1158, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6844, an act 15 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 16 to authorizing and requiring. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6403 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 3 Senator Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 5 President, may I have unanimous consent to be 6 recorded in the negative on Number 1157 as 7 well? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 9 Without objection, Senator Dollinger to be 10 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1157. 11 Senator Gold, did you want to be 12 recorded on that as well? 13 SENATOR GOLD: No, no. I was 14 just helping. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Oh, 16 all right. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1159, Senator Levy, Senate Print 6875, an act to 20 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the Public 21 Authorities Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 23 the last section. 6404 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect in 30 days. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1160, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 6905, an act 11 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 12 relation to the seizure of license plates. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the first day of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 23 bill is passed. 6405 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1172, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7025, an 3 act to amend Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1983. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1179, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4431-A, an 16 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 17 relation to the general powers. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 23 the roll. 6406 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1185, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6617, an 7 act to amend the Business Corporation Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1189, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7133, 20 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 21 relation to exempting information. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 6407 1 the bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1191, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6457, an 4 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to the 5 sale of joint credit. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1197, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3085, an 18 act to repeal Subdivision 9 of Section 14-114 of 19 the Election Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6408 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1204, by Member of the Assembly McEneny, 9 Assembly Print 4695, an act to amend the 10 Election Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 23 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 6409 1 in relation to the siting. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section - 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 7 the bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1229, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 935-A, an 10 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to 11 liability. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Read - 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 16 the bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1230, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 1633, an 19 act authorizing the city of Albany. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: A home 21 rule message is at the desk. Read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6410 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1231, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1999, an 10 act to amend the General City Law, in relation 11 to excluding the city of Auburn. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 18 the bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1232, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 4254-A, an 21 act to authorize the town of Cornwall. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: A home 23 rule message is at the desk. Read the last 6411 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1234, by Member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly 12 Print 8464, an act in relation to discontinuing 13 the Spring Valley Toll Plaza. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 16 the bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1236, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6503-A, an 19 act to authorize the town of Blooming Grove, 20 Orange County. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 22 home rule message is at the desk. Read the last 23 section. 6412 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1237, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6762-A, an 11 act in relation to legalizing and validating the 12 adoption of a bond resolution. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 18 the roll. The home rule message is at the desk. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6413 1 1238, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6959-A, 2 an act authorizing the commissioner of General 3 Services. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section - 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 8 the negative, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Lay 10 the bill aside. 11 Senator Bruno. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the 13 affirmative. 14 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 15 I believe on that vote, that bill requires a 16 three-quarters majority since -- two-thirds - 17 I'm sorry -- two-thirds majority. Since we've 18 now obtained the necessary votes on the other 19 side of the aisle, I move to put the bill on the 20 table -- lay the bill on the table. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President 22 -- can we lay that bill aside, Mr. President? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 6414 1 Senator Velella, I have been informed by the 2 desk that this bill does not require a 3 two-thirds vote, so we can record the party 4 vote. 5 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: We're 8 going to confirm that, so we're going to lay the 9 bill aside temporarily. 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Senator Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 15 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 16 on Calendar 1157, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 18 Without objection, Senator Leichter will be 19 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1157. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 21 Senator Bruno. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 23 can we at this time return to motions and 6415 1 resolutions, and I would move the adoption of 2 the Resolution Calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 4 Secretary will read -- oh. All in favor of 5 adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by 6 saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The Resolution Calendar is 11 adopted. 12 Senator Bruno -- Senator Gold, 13 why do you rise? 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. May I 15 please have unanimous consent to be recorded in 16 the negative on 1157. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 18 Without objection, Senator Gold will be recorded 19 in the negative on Calendar 1157. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 22 can we at this time take up the controversial 23 calendar. 6416 1 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 4 Calendar Number 306, by Senator Tully, Senate 5 Print 4578-B, an act to amend the Vehicle and 6 Traffic Law. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 9 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Tully. 10 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 This is an agreed upon bill 13 sponsored by -- in the Assembly by Assemblyman 14 David Gantt and, Mr. President, it is a true 15 bipartisan bill in the spirit of the comments of 16 my college, Senator Marcellino, yesterday when 17 he was speaking of the breast cancer pesticide 18 bill and referred to the Declaration of 19 Independence and the Bill of Rights as being 20 documents that were framed in the spirit of 21 bipartisanship as this bill is, Mr. President, 22 because it was before this house earlier in the 23 year, and it passed by the vote of 54 to 6 with 6417 1 several members of the Minority objecting to 2 certain portions of the bill. 3 Now, as has often happened in 4 this house, some of the comments from members 5 are very lucid and they help to better a bill. 6 They help to temper it in the true spirit of 7 having a stronger piece of legislation. 8 On that particular occasion, 9 recommendations were made by Senator Paterson 10 with respect to authorizing conditional licenses 11 for work, school and medical reasons, and that 12 was included in this amended version. 13 Recommendations were made by 14 Senator Abate with respect to authorizing the 15 cleanup of graffiti via community service, and 16 that was included in this amended bill, and also 17 Senator Onorato who voted for the bill but made 18 a recommendation regarding the removal of 19 driving privileges regardless of age were 20 included and incorporated into this amended 21 version. So we have a truly bipartisan bill, 22 and I appreciate the comments of my colleagues. 23 This bill does prohibit the 6418 1 issuance of a driver's license to certain minors 2 and young adults for one year from the time at 3 which they are convicted of making graffiti 4 which currently, Mr. President, is a misdemeanor 5 but very few people are ever given that 6 punishment of up to a year in jail. This, we 7 think, would help to prevent this scourge on our 8 society. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 On the -- on the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: On the 15 bill. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: I certainly, 17 along with the other members of the Major... the 18 Minority who -- must have been a Freudian slip, 19 Mr. President -- would like to thank Senator 20 Tully for re-examining this bill and for 21 negotiating it, and since I was the one who 22 raised the objection to certain types of 23 negotiations, I was trying to point out 6419 1 yesterday that there is a difference between 2 compromise in the sense of legislation and 3 apportionment and distribution of resources and 4 then the compromise of principles, and I did not 5 think or would I ever be in favor of those who 6 even with whom I disagree to actually compromise 7 their values with a gun to their head just to 8 pass certain types of legislation. 9 Now, in this case, this is an 10 area where compromise is quite valid. However, 11 still there are a few of us that feel that the 12 punishment doesn't really relate to the crime, 13 that actually the individuals would be better 14 enhanced in their punitive service, in some kind 15 of public variety of service or some area that 16 they can give back to the community or perhaps 17 spend time cleaning graffiti off the walls of 18 the subways, of the areas that they actually 19 inflicted this damage. 20 We don't feel that -- relating it 21 to a driver's license, which many of the 22 individuals who would commit the crimes don't 23 have a driver's license, setting up almost a 6420 1 situation where you are at greater risk if you 2 have a driver's license when you commit this 3 crime. We don't feel that it would be 4 reasonable that the individual who would be 5 committing the crime of defacing or defiling 6 property in the form of graffiti would at the 7 time of the offense even be aware that they 8 would perhaps lose their driver's license. 9 Now, although knowledge is not a 10 prerequisite to any kind of -- although the 11 knowledge of what -- the full effects is 12 certainly no excuse for defacing property, at 13 the same time, it is remote to the actual crime 14 that the individual be penalized in this 15 particular way. If anything, just a straight 16 sentence or fine or some kind of community 17 service or an act of having to clean greater 18 than the -- than the damage that was actually 19 caused, we feel would be a better solution, but 20 we are quite pleased that a number of our 21 colleagues were willing to take some of the 22 discussion that occurred earlier in the session 23 pertaining to this legislation and used it in 6421 1 reassessing what the public policy of the bill 2 is and actually using some of that information 3 in redrafting the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the first day of 8 November. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45, nays 2, 13 Senators Connor and Paterson recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Lachman, did you want to 18 explain your vote on that bill? 19 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: I 21 apologize. I didn't see you before. 22 SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you, Mr. 23 Chairman. 6422 1 I was one of the six in the 2 Minority that voted against the bill initially, 3 and I wanted to echo the remarks of Senator 4 Paterson. In the spirit of compromise and 5 conciliation, my colleagues have changed the 6 bill and not completely to the extent that I 7 want but sufficiently for me to vote in the 8 "A". 9 Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 11 bill is passed. 12 The Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 331, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4588, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 16 issuance of licenses. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 20 Senator Volker. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 22 this is a bill that's passed this house -- in 23 fact, it passed the house last year by a vote, I 6423 1 believe of 37 to 21, and it's passed this house 2 on several occasions -- that would change the 3 system of pistol licensing in this state to make 4 licensed handguns available to persons who have 5 a clean, moral, criminal and mental record. 6 It's called a proper cause bill because, in 7 effect, what it does is to reverse the process 8 now which many people believe has not truly 9 worked, and that is it would create the 10 presumption that a person has a clean, moral and 11 criminal record and, obviously, we would still 12 have fingerprinting and things of that nature to 13 make sure that that is correct, and once that is 14 shown to be correct, then the person is entitled 15 to a license barring some other problem that 16 comes up as to the character of the person, and 17 that is the bill. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: And that is a 19 fine explanation, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 21 Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: On the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 6424 1 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: The change in 3 this legislation, according to a memo that we 4 received from New York City, would triple the 5 number of handguns in New York City. 6 In the last year, the murder rate 7 has gone down 25 percent, and the mayor is 8 really interested in keeping as many guns off 9 the street as possible. We do not want to have 10 anyone infer from this discussion that the 11 proliferation of these licensed weapons would in 12 any way increase the crime rate. However, New 13 York City feels that it has a right to govern in 14 the area of licensing within its jurisdiction 15 and we heartily agree. 16 There is certainly the 17 understanding that might be reached that could 18 change people's minds that the actual 19 legislation, if passed, would take a lot of 20 licenses and grandfather them in, which are 21 right now just ownership licenses and are really 22 just licenses for commercial use. What we would 23 then have is no challenge to these licenses. 6425 1 They would immediately convert to carry licenses 2 without any investigation. 3 This bill creates a rebuttable 4 presumption that there is good moral character 5 on the part of an individual who applies for the 6 license that would have to be proved to the 7 contrary, but in order to discredit the 8 individual, we would get no opportunity to 9 challenge any of those licenses that would 10 already have been grandfathered in. 11 So we still feel that, although 12 this is a bill that would affect the state 13 entirely, that individual localities would 14 probably be more apt and probably be more 15 appropriate to determine where the license would 16 come from and what the threshold would be in 17 order to gain a license. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 19 Senator Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President, I voted against this bill before, and 22 I intend to vote against it again today because 23 it affects the concealment of a weapon provision 6426 1 under state law, as least as I read it, and the 2 sponsor can perhaps correct me if I'm wrong, but 3 what this allows is -- we currently have a 4 provision that says if you want to carry a 5 concealed weapon -- and it says "without regard 6 to employment or place of possession" -- it 7 means you can carry it anywhere you want to in 8 this state -- it says, "currently by any person 9 when proper cause exists for the issuance 10 thereof." Proper cause -- the burden is now on 11 the applicant to show proper cause to carry a 12 concealed weapon without regard to place and 13 without regard to occupation. 14 What this bill would do is say 15 proper cause would be presumed in instances in 16 which you would shift the burden of the 17 government to show that improper cause or lack 18 of sufficient cause exists. 19 It seems to me we have a broad 20 provision in this state that allows people to 21 carry concealed weapons in certain instances 22 when it is based on the place of the -- in which 23 you carry it or their occupation. We have an 6427 1 extensive law that provides that now without a 2 showing of cause. Simply show the place, show 3 the location and you can carry a concealed 4 pistol if you meet those criteria. 5 Here what I think we're doing is 6 we're giving basically a carte blanche to people 7 that carry consistent -- concealed weapons, 8 concealed pistols, and I think under those 9 instances to simply ask that you have some 10 proper cause, that you demonstrate your 11 competence to carry it, that you demonstrate 12 your understanding of fire safety or whatever 13 else is required to show proper cause, it seems 14 to me that's a minor restriction, a minor burden 15 that we put on the backs of those who want to 16 carry consistent -- concealed permits or 17 concealed pistols, and it seems to me that 18 that's a good idea to keep that provision and 19 not broaden it as the chairman of the Codes 20 Committee wants to do. 21 Carrying a concealed weapon has 22 all -- is fraught with all kinds of dangers, all 23 kinds of potentials. Many responsible gun 6428 1 owners, I'm sure they're not a problem, but I'm 2 concerned about broadening the standard under 3 which concealed weapons will be carried in this 4 state. 5 I think we struck a reasonable 6 balance when we put this provision in the 7 statute in the first place. We ought to 8 maintain that balance now and, therefore, I will 9 be voting in the negative, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Read 11 the last -- read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 331 are Senators 20 Abate, Babbush, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, 21 Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Marchi, 22 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato, 23 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith and 6429 1 Waldon. Ayes 34, nays 19. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 I respectfully respect unanimous 8 consent to be recorded in the negative on 9 Calendar 306. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 11 Without objection, Senator Waldon will be 12 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 306. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 347, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 653-A, an 19 act to amend the Public Health Law, the Criminal 20 Procedure Law and the Family Court Act. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 23 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Skelos. 6430 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 The purpose of this legislation 4 is to provide police officers and peace officers 5 with a method of discovering whether they have 6 been exposed to a transmissible disease during 7 the performance of their duties without 8 jeopardizing the confidentiality of the 9 suspected carrier's medical condition. 10 This bill requires the police or 11 peace officer to apply to the court for the 12 defendant to be tested for certain diseases 13 which the officer can show probable cause that 14 he or she may have been exposed. 15 As we know, police officers are 16 -- continually come in contact with persons who 17 engage in conduct which is likely to often cause 18 them to be a carrier of a transmissible 19 disease. There are treatments which are 20 available after exposure to certain diseases 21 which can prevent them from developing into full 22 blown diseases, many diseases like hepatitis B 23 and TB can be avoided even after exposure by 6431 1 quick treatment. Therefore, it's imperative to 2 be able to ascertain such information to ensure 3 quick treatment. A lengthy process adversely 4 affects the individual and his or her family 5 along with the morale of the entire department 6 in the case of a police department. 7 This legislation is supported by 8 the Nassau County PBA, the Nassau County -- New 9 York City PBA, Nassau County PBA, Police 10 Conference of New York. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Senator Leichter -- I'm sorry. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'll yield to 15 you, Senator Waldon. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 17 Senator Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 19 much, Senator Leichter. Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 Would the gentleman yield to a 22 question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 6432 1 Senator Skelos, do you yield? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, in this 4 procedure that you wish to have implemented 5 regarding the police, is there any medical 6 intervention, or is it just the guesstimate of 7 the cop on the scene? 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there what? 9 SENATOR WALDON: I said is there 10 any intervention by a medical practitioner in 11 this process, or is it just the best guesstimate 12 of the cop or cops on the scene? 13 SENATOR SKELOS: The judge -- the 14 police officer or peace officer who either 15 arrests or detains an individual or if the 16 person is incarcerated will make an application 17 to the court and would have to show probable 18 cause that the person that they feel that may 19 have exposed them to a transmissible disease is 20 possibly carrying that disease. So they have to 21 go to probable cause and, as you know, that is a 22 very high standard in our judicial system. 23 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 6433 1 continue, Mr. President. Would the gentleman - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 3 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I'm not sure 6 about the high standard in the judicial system. 7 I know that on the street, an officer, if he has 8 probable cause -- which means that from his 9 training and from his apprehension of the 10 surroundings around him -- if he suspects that 11 someone has committed or is about to commit a 12 crime, he can stop that person, intervene, make 13 certain -- cause certain questions to be asked 14 and if he feels necessary, arrest the person. 15 That is the standard of probable cause, as I 16 understand it, but I'm more concerned about 17 whether or not in the application to the court, 18 is there a doctor in the house? Does someone 19 other than the police officer say, Well, you 20 know, my training at the Academy tells me and my 21 15 years on the street tells me that this person 22 may have this disease or certain diseases? Is 23 there any medical intervention prerequisite to 6434 1 the application to the court for this process? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: That would be up 3 to the court. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Is that a no? 5 There's no - 6 SENATOR SKELOS: No. I said that 7 would be up to the court, and the petitioner's 8 requirement -- or application would have to show 9 probable cause. If the court determines that 10 they would like to have medical testimony, then 11 they could have the medical testimony. 12 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 13 continue, Mr. President. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: May I point out 15 that this is also an in-camera proceeding. It's 16 confidential. 17 SENATOR WALDON: I understand 18 that. 19 Thank you. 20 Mr. President, would the 21 gentleman - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 23 Senator Waldon. 6435 1 SENATOR WALDON: -- would the 2 gentleman continue to yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 4 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I 8 appreciate your indulging my questions, but I 9 think what you said to me is that prior to going 10 to the court, it is just the best guesstimate - 11 and pardon the phraseology -- it's the most 12 professional guess or estimate of the police 13 officer which determines that he goes to the 14 court. There's no prerequisite prior to 15 entering the court that he establish prima 16 facie, if you want to call it that, probable 17 cause, if you want to call it that, reasonable 18 suspicion, if you want to call it that, about a 19 disease being carried by the person arrested or 20 being incarcerated. That is clear, is it not? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: The standard is 22 probable cause. If you're a police officer and 23 you feel that you have been exposed to a 6436 1 transmission -- transmissible disease under 2 certain conditions, then you have the right to 3 make an application to the court, and if they 4 feel that there is probable cause to believe 5 that you have been exposed to a transmissible 6 disease, they could then order that that person 7 be tested for a transmissible disease. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 10 Senator Waldon. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 Senator, that wasn't responsive 14 to my question. What I really asked -- and I'll 15 be as simplistic -- I know sometimes I'm 16 convoluted - 17 SENATOR SKELOS: We could differ, 18 Senator Waldon. I mean, I'm going to respond as 19 I wish to respond. You may not like the answer, 20 but I'm going to respond as I wish to respond to 21 your questions. 22 SENATOR WALDON: I don't know if 23 -- are we having a colloquy? That's fine with 6437 1 me. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 3 Senator Waldon, you have the floor right now. 4 You've asked Senator Skelos to yield. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I would like to 6 ask another question of the Senator. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 8 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Not to preamble 12 too much, Senator, but with all due respect to 13 you as a Senator in this chamber and to the 14 process in terms of our dialogue and debate on 15 the floor, it has been my expectation and my 16 history here that most people have really tried 17 to respond to the questions as put, but let's 18 move on. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could 20 respond to that, Mr. President. I believe that 21 I can respond -- or any sponsor can respond to a 22 question the way they think best answers the 23 question, but great minds like yours and mine 6438 1 can disagree, obviously as to the question and 2 to the response. 3 SENATOR WALDON: I appreciate the 4 stroking, Senator, but may I continue, Mr. 5 President? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 7 Senator Waldon. 8 SENATOR WALDON: This will be 9 about the last question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 11 Senator Waldon, do you continue to ask 12 questions? 13 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 14 gentleman continue to yield? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 16 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are 20 you, in fact, creating a new standard in 21 evidence; because heretofore, I have never, ever 22 heard of probable cause utilized in the fashion 23 that you're characterizing in your proposal. It 6439 1 has always been, in my understanding -- and 2 counsel can correct me, my learned friend who 3 went to law school with me and who was the 4 actual magister of our fraternity and I'll 5 accept what Richie says, but you can tell me 6 whether or not this is a new standard, meaning 7 that we're now going to have probable cause in a 8 situation that does not lead to an arrest. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: The issue of 10 probable cause is not a new standard. That's - 11 exists in our jurisprudence system here in New 12 York state and this country for many years. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 14 much, Senator. 15 Mr. President, on the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 17 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Skelos 19 and I have debated each other on a number of 20 times and we've done TV shows together that were 21 quite, I think, challenging in terms of the TV 22 audience, but today I think we found a way to 23 dance as we've never danced before. 6440 1 It is my belief that there should 2 be some prerequisite intervention by a medical 3 practitioner before such an application is made 4 to the court for a lot of reasons: One, the 5 police officer is not trained to make medical 6 determinations; two, sometimes bias enters into 7 what the police do, especially with the certain 8 segment of the population, those who may, in 9 fact, have AIDS or those who may be a part of 10 the gay community. 11 Cops, unfortunately -- and I 12 happen to have been part of, for most of my 13 working life -- a major portion of my working 14 life was as a police officer, and I loved what I 15 did. I loved the guys and ladies I worked with, 16 but sometimes we had biases that I found 17 unconscionable, and I would think that this 18 might be an instance where that kind of bias 19 might just erupt and taint the process. 20 So I would encourage us not to 21 vote for this bill in a positive fashion because 22 the proper medical intervention has not 23 occurred, and we should not create problems in 6441 1 terms of suits for the city and state. We 2 should not create problems where the police will 3 do the wrong thing because they haven't had 4 proper intervention by a medical practitioner, 5 and I think that we ought to be sensitive to the 6 needs of a community that has many times -- or 7 all too often, I should say -- been treated 8 unfairly by various forms of the government. 9 So I encourage my colleagues to 10 vote no on this particular proposal. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Senator Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr. 15 President, what bothers me with this bill is 16 we're trying to deal with a problem that, as far 17 as I understand, doesn't exist. 18 I realize there's a certain 19 ideological attitude which is expressed by these 20 bills but, you know, you can express your 21 ideology in various ways, put out a press 22 statement, and I'm troubled because I'm not 23 aware that we have problem, and I wanted to ask, 6442 1 if Senator Skelos will yield, to see that maybe 2 there's a problem that I'm not aware of. 3 Would you yield, Senator? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yeah, Mr. 5 President. I do yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, can 9 you tell me any instance where a police officer 10 as a consequence of an arrest where he came into 11 contact with a person being arrested and 12 whatever the nature of that contact was that as 13 a consequence, he became HIV-positive? Do you 14 know of one such case? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, first of 16 all, we have a situation that I understand in 17 our corrections system where six percent of the 18 corrections officers have tuberculosis. We have 19 instances where police officers have patted down 20 a person that they're about to arrest and 21 they've pricked themselves with a needle that 22 that person had on their person, but I know that 23 you brought up the issue of AIDS. We're talking 6443 1 about transmissible diseases. This is not an 2 AIDS bill. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 4 if Senator Skelos will be good enough to 5 continue to yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 7 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 10 you're absolutely correct that this bill covers 11 diseases other than AIDS, but it specifically 12 covers AIDS, and the fact of the matter is that 13 this bill wouldn't be before us if it weren't 14 for AIDS. The other diseases have been around 15 for centuries. This Legislature has never 16 bothered to put in this sort of a bill, so we 17 know it's driven by AIDS and, therefore, my 18 question is specifically whether you know of one 19 instance -- one instance -- where somebody 20 arrested prior to conviction and being 21 incarcerated in a state penal institution, where 22 a police officer or court officer or anyone who 23 dealt in a capacity of authority with the 6444 1 arrested person developed the HIV virus? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: With the - 3 maybe I can ask you a question. With the AIDS 4 confidentiality laws, how are we supposed to 5 find that out? 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. -- I'll be 7 happy to answer your question, and then I hope 8 you'll answer my question. It's very easy to 9 find out because I think in most instances, I 10 believe that where people in such situations 11 have become HIV-positive, they have said, I 12 became HIV-positive as a consequence. 13 We've had instances of nurses 14 that were pricked by needles, became 15 HIV-positive. There was this very tragic case 16 of the young woman who, at least it was alleged, 17 became HIV-positive from contact with her 18 dentist. You remember she testified before 19 Congress. 20 So I think that those cases do 21 become public, and I can't believe that a police 22 officer or somebody else covered by your bill 23 who became HIV-positive as a result of contact 6445 1 with an arrested person would not come forth and 2 say, "Hey, look what happened to me." 3 Do you know one such case -- now, 4 let me -- having answered your question, if you 5 would answer my question. Do you - 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 7 Leichter, I think the issue is that in our 8 prisons today -- and this is testimony that I 9 obtained at a hearing that Assemblyman Feldman 10 had -- that 25 percent of the inmates today test 11 positive for TB. 15 percent in our prison 12 system test positive for HIV. Now, we know some 13 of them have both. These results come from a 14 random sample of 400 prisoners done every two 15 years. So I believe possibly the rate is much 16 higher. 17 We have instances where police 18 officers have been pricked with needles. The 19 issue is not whether that person became 20 HIV-positive or not. The fact is that that 21 police officer has the right to find out if, in 22 fact, the person that was carrying that needle 23 was HIV-positive, and let me ask you this, 6446 1 Senator Leichter. If we took out the HIV 2 provisions, would you then be supportive of the 3 bill? 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 5 would -- I would probably not be supportive of 6 the bill, although I could see some instances 7 where, if you -- if you tested the transmitter 8 of the disease, whether it's a person arrested, 9 preconviction or subsequent to conviction, where 10 it would give you a definitive answer, then I 11 would say maybe we ought to do it. 12 As you know, the real problem 13 that I have with the HIV testing is that I - 14 and while I know it's sincere, and so on, but 15 the fact is that it doesn't do anything for you 16 because I think you will agree -- and I'll ask 17 you to yield for this purpose -- that 18 irrespective of what the test results are from 19 the person who is tested -- the arrested person, 20 let's say -- if the concern is whether HIV virus 21 has been transmitted, that you must -- you must, 22 you must test that police officer or the other 23 people covered by your bill. Don't you agree 6447 1 that's so? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. I mean - 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator - 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Leichter 5 -- Senator Leichter, maybe I could ask you a 6 question. Do you believe that we should tell 7 people who are exposed to HIV what course of 8 treatment they should choose? 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry. 10 Could you repeat that question. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Do you believe 12 that we as a Legislature should tell people that 13 have been exposed to the HIV virus what course 14 of treatment they should take? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 16 wouldn't -- since I have seen this Legislature 17 meddle in so many things, I wouldn't be 18 surprised to find a bill one day that says you 19 should take three green pills in the morning and 20 two yellow ones at noon, and so on. No. I 21 don't think that any one of us have the medical 22 capacity -- when you're talking a "course of 23 treatment", I assume you're talking of medical 6448 1 treatment but, Senator, I wouldn't be surprised 2 to see that bill. It won't have my name on it 3 but, of course, we shouldn't. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 5 Leichter, if a police officer, again patting 6 down a person, is pricked by a needle, finds out 7 that the person was HIV-positive or a 8 corrections officer is spit upon in the face by 9 a person carrying TB in the prison system, don't 10 you believe they have the right to choose what 11 medical treatment they desire at that point if 12 they find that the person that was either 13 carrying the needle or spit in his face or her 14 face is carrying a transmissible disease? 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 16 Skelos, you're not talking about medical 17 treatment. You're talking about something 18 really quite different. You're talking about 19 the manner in which people covered under your 20 bill can demand that other people be tested. 21 That's not a matter of treatment. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Sure, it is. 23 Following -- following the testing, you then 6449 1 have a right to do what's best -- what you feel 2 is in your best interests to protect yourself. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if I 4 may respond, take that as a question, you 5 certainly have certain rights as to what 6 medication you're going to take, what course of 7 treatment you're going to follow, who you're 8 going to see, but you're talking now about 9 invading the rights of people -- and I consider 10 them rights -- people who have not yet been 11 convicted -- I'm particularly concerned of an 12 arrested person -- and I have trouble seeing on 13 what basis we're going to invade that right, 14 particularly when we're talking about the HIV 15 virus, when it serves absolutely no purpose, 16 because you've conceded that we have to -- that 17 the person who thinks he or she may have been 18 affected has to be tested irrespective of the 19 test that is given to the person who is the 20 alleged transmitter of the disease. That being 21 so, why would I invade somebody's rights when it 22 serves no purpose whatsoever? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: I'll use one 6450 1 example. Hepatitis B, if it can be treated 2 immediately, you can be cured of that problem as 3 a police officer or as a corrections officer. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, as 5 you know, the reason that I ask asked you about 6 AIDS is because that's what's driving this 7 bill. If you want to put forth a bill here that 8 deals about hepatitis and deals about TB, I 9 would look at it in a different way because - 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 11 Leichter, are you basing - 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can I just 13 finish? 14 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm sorry. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- I'd look 16 at it in a different way because if the concern 17 is TB -- and I -- somebody -- I'm an arresting 18 officer, somebody has spat at me, I'm concerned 19 that the person has TB, there's probable cause, 20 and so on -- well, if I test that person and he 21 tests negative for TB, then it's clear that I 22 could not have caught TB from him, but AIDS is a 23 totally different situation, and we discussed 6451 1 this at great length when we had another bill - 2 I don't believe it was your bill. I think it 3 was Senator Saland's bill about testing people 4 for AIDS prior to their conviction. 5 So I've got to take a look at 6 what I know drives this bill, and I look at your 7 memo, I look at the bill and it continuously 8 talks about HIV, and we have to acknowledge the 9 fact that TB has been around for hundreds of 10 years, and this Legislature has never passed 11 such a bill regarding the testing of TB, so it 12 hasn't been a problem, and that gets back to my 13 initial question. 14 Where is the problem? Where are 15 the police officers who believe or think that 16 they have contacted the HIV virus? I don't know 17 of a single case, and I don't know of any 18 benefit that would be -- that would be achieved 19 by testing the alleged transmitter of the 20 disease. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: And as with 22 Senator Waldon, great minds can differ, Senator 23 Leichter, but I believe that the police officer, 6452 1 peace officer in the performance of their duty 2 have the right to protect themselves, that they 3 have certain rights and with the standard of 4 probable cause, there are sufficient protections 5 of the person being -- that's being tested. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 9 Senator Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: On the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 12 Senator Leichter, on the bill. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I want to 14 thank you, Senator Skelos. I think we've 15 certainly clarified and crystallized the 16 differences between us. 17 Let me say, being a police 18 officer, it's a very tough job and you do place 19 yourself under risk. So if there's things that 20 we can do that will really help a police officer 21 avoid a serious disease, I want to do it, and I 22 could see some basis for doing it in the case of 23 TB, although we -- as I pointed out, the 6453 1 Legislature hasn't done this for the hundred 2 years or so that TB has been around, so it must 3 not really be a serious problem. 4 Hepatitis, you're absolutely 5 correct. The sooner that you treat hepatitis, 6 the better are the chances of curing the 7 person. It's a serious disease but, again, I 8 don't know whether we've ever had a problem, but 9 when we get to HIV -- and that's the reason this 10 bill is before us -- I mean, you could talk 11 about other communicable diseases. You could 12 clothe the bill in any sort of ornaments that 13 you want to, but that's why this bill is before 14 us, and that -- here we're just dealing with an 15 ideological statement because there's no medical 16 fact which lends any credence to it, and I think 17 all of us have to admit that even arrested 18 people have certain rights. 19 Now, those rights at various 20 times have to be -- have to be subordinated to 21 other rights if there's a purpose for it, but 22 when you get to HIV, because it is such a 23 difficult, such a complex disease about which we 6454 1 still, unfortunately, know far too little -- but 2 the one thing we know is that the fact that 3 somebody tests positive doesn't mean that the 4 person who thinks that they were in contact with 5 the transmitter, that he or she will become 6 positive, and even if the person tests negative, 7 it isn't an assurance at all that the HIV virus 8 hasn't been transmitted because the person may 9 have had unprotected sex the night before and 10 may have acquired the HIV virus. It won't show 11 up in the test, but he can transmit the 12 disease. 13 So faced with that, why would we 14 in any way affect or infringe -- I think it is 15 an infringement -- somebody's rights when it 16 doesn't serve a purpose? There's no medical 17 purpose that's involved, and Senator Skelos very 18 candidly said -- I asked him, don't you have to 19 test the police officer under any circumstances 20 irrespective of the test that was given to the 21 alleged transmitter of the disease, and he said 22 yes. 23 That being so, I think it 6455 1 undermines and undercuts this particular bill, 2 and you can't -- I just want to -- I guess I'm 3 emphasizing, repeating it, but I think it's 4 worth repeating it -- don't sell a bill that 5 deals with HIV, and when you can't answer and 6 you can't provide any logic for the HIV testing, 7 you say, Well, it could be another communicable 8 disease. 9 This bill is here for HIV. It 10 refers to HIV. It's sold on the basis that 11 you're dealing with HIV, and the medical 12 knowledge that we have just doesn't support what 13 this bill tries to do. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 15 Senator Abate. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Mr. 17 President. Would Senator Skelos yield to a 18 question? 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 22 Senator Skelos yields. 23 SENATOR ABATE: I have some 6456 1 questions around the process itself that I don't 2 understand. I think the bill says that probable 3 cause has to be articulated to the judge in 4 order for the order to be granted and the 5 testing to take place. Who needs to carry the 6 burden to show probable cause, and is -- does 7 the district attorney represent the officer in 8 this case or does private counsel intervene and 9 represent the officer in this case? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Private counsel 11 of the petitioner. The petitioner has the 12 burden to show probable cause. 13 SENATOR ABATE: And when do you 14 think this motion will take place? Will it be a 15 special calendaring because, as you know, in 16 court cases, cases are adjourned periodically. 17 So would this allow the attorney, the private 18 attorney representing the officer to try to get 19 this case rescheduled at an earlier date for a 20 special hearing? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: The petitioner 22 would make the application, and I would assume 23 that the application would be heard 6457 1 expeditiously. 2 SENATOR ABATE: And would it be 3 made -- would the motion be made ex parte to the 4 judge for a hearing? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 6 SENATOR ABATE: So it would be an 7 ex parte motion and a hearing would take place; 8 and prior to the hearing taking place, the 9 defendant could be -- we're talking about the 10 defendant in this case -- the defendant could be 11 held for 24 hours pending a hearing even taking 12 place, or is it 24 hours after the hearing and 13 the judge has an additional 24 hours to make a 14 decision? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. The judge 16 has 24 hours to make the decision. 17 SENATOR ABATE: A judge has 24 18 hours, but then can a defendant be held in - 19 pending finding the judge getting the hearing - 20 the hearing may take some time. So conceivably 21 the defendant would be held in more than 24 22 hours pending the decision of the judge. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Possibly. 6458 1 SENATOR ABATE: So we're dealing 2 with a situation, probable cause has to be 3 determined and before that hearing takes place, 4 a defendant is going to be held -- be detained 5 for a period of time. During that period of 6 detention, are these individuals held in 7 isolation, because we don't know that they have 8 TB. We don't know what they have. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I just ask 10 you a question? Are you reading the "A" print 11 or the 653? 12 SENATOR ABATE: I have 653. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: There's an "A" 14 print. 15 SENATOR ABATE: Okay. I don't 16 have the "A" print. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: There is an "A" 18 print. 19 SENATOR ABATE: Okay. I don't 20 have it, but maybe since I haven't read the "A" 21 print, maybe you can explain to me, if -- before 22 a hearing, before a decision is made, my 23 understanding, a defendant would be held in 6459 1 detention up to 24 hours. Is there something in 2 the bill that requires this defendant to be held 3 in isolation for that period of time? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: No, there is 5 not. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Even though the 7 defendant might have TB? 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Haven't proven 9 it. 10 SENATOR ABATE: And who would 11 bear -- the last question is who would bear the 12 cost of the testing? Who will bear -- has there 13 been any cost analysis of the cost of doing the 14 hearing itself? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: It would be by 16 the public health officer. 17 SENATOR ABATE: And have you done 18 any kind of physical analysis of what the cost 19 would be to the court system - 20 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 21 SENATOR ABATE: -- of detaining 22 people an additional 24 hours or the cost of 23 having these additional hearings? 6460 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I have not done 2 that. My concern is the police officers and the 3 corrections officers. 4 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. 5 Thank you, Senator. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 7 Senator Abate, on the bill. 8 SENATOR ABATE: I oppose this 9 bill. I have a similar concern with this body 10 and in particular, the sponsor. I care about 11 the health and welfare of police officers and 12 uniform court officers and correction officers. 13 I look at the memo and the justification 14 language, and let me cite the justification 15 language. 16 "This legislation is needed to 17 provide quick answers and peace of mind to 18 officers." 19 I do not believe this bill as 20 written provides quick answers or peace of mind 21 to officers. If we care -- and we debated this 22 issue last week as it dealt with victims, and 23 last week I said if we really care about victims 6461 1 -- and in this case, if we really care about 2 law enforcement officers -- we need to give them 3 information that is going to protect their 4 health, get them into treatment and not be 5 burdensome. 6 We now have a test that did not 7 exist. This debate and this bill, I believe is 8 an outgrowth of old debates. We now have a test 9 called PCR testing. Instead of putting our 10 money into what I call these ridiculous hearings 11 that will be an outgrowth of this bill, the cost 12 in detaining people 24 hours on the premise that 13 there might be an order for testing, let's put 14 this money directly into testing officers who 15 want to be tested. Through the PCR test, they 16 can get that information immediately. Put money 17 so officers can be tested frequently so that 18 they know what is happening to their own 19 bodies. They should have precounseling and 20 post-counseling testing to help them in their 21 endeavors. 22 What this bill does is give 23 officers bad information. It talks about 6462 1 information about another individual. It does 2 not help them assess their health needs. 3 I agree with Senator Leichter. 4 This bill is not about TB. As a former 5 commissioner of correction -- and I know because 6 I was there at Rikers Island when the TB 7 epidemic was really at its greatest, and that 8 there are protocols in all the prison systems, 9 and I understand -- I've dealt with this issue 10 with correction officers who have some great 11 deal of concern, but the protocols are when 12 inmates are admitted, they are tested. They not 13 only get blood tests, they get chest X-rays, 14 they get sputum tests. They are immediately 15 isolated. Officers know -- that means uniform 16 officers, police officers and corrections 17 officers know when someone has been identified 18 with TB, they're put into isolation units. Some 19 of the best isolation units are at Rikers 20 Island. They don't leave those units until they 21 are no longer at risk of communicating that 22 disease to someone else. There's directly 23 observed therapy. There are protocols now on 6463 1 the local and state level to assure that 2 officers -- and training ad nauseam to assure 3 that officers are not placed at risk with people 4 who have TB. 5 So rest assured this is not a 6 tuberculosis bill. If this were a tuberculosis 7 bill, we should put as much money as possible in 8 identifying people with TB, isolating them, 9 ensuring there is directly observed therapy and 10 protecting those law enforcement officers that 11 come in contact with people with TB, but this is 12 not TB. This is HIV-positive. The doctors have 13 said and the experts have said, if you want to 14 help someone who thinks they have been infected, 15 the best help you can give that individual is 16 tell them to test themselves periodically to get 17 the correct information. 18 So instead of putting money again 19 into a burdensome court proceeding that talks 20 about probable cause, talks about additional 21 detention, that talks about isolation, take that 22 money so we can actually help the officer 23 himself or herself. That is a pro-victim bill. 6464 1 That is a pro-law enforcement bill. It could be 2 done with less burden on the courts, less burden 3 on the officer himself or herself. That is a 4 better bill. Now that we have the PCR testing, 5 we should revisit the bill and do something 6 that's, in fact, going to help law enforcement 7 officials. 8 Until we amend this bill and 9 effectively do something that provides good 10 health information to the officers, I will 11 continue to oppose this legislation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 13 Senator Lachman. 14 SENATOR LACHMAN: On the bill and 15 then a question to the Senator. I think it's 16 essential as every member in this chamber does 17 to ally ourselves with the police officials who 18 put their lives on the line in protection of our 19 -- of us, our families and our communities. 20 The question, however, I have is, 21 is this the best possible form of legislation 22 that would achieve the objective we want in 23 order to protect our police officials? 6465 1 To be more specific, I do happen 2 to feel very strongly that TB is growing in this 3 society, and the drugs that have been used in 4 the past have not proven to be as effective to 5 counteract the dangers from tuberculosis. 6 However, Senator -- Senator 7 Skelos, if the purpose or general idea of the 8 bill, you don't get the impression, as I did get 9 to some extent in your comments, that this is a 10 general bill involving all transmissible, 11 communicable diseases, because it specifically 12 states to provide police officers, court clerks, 13 uniform court officers and correction officers 14 with the method of discovering where they have 15 been exposed to the AIDS virus or other related 16 viruses. 17 Now, tuberculosis is not an 18 "other related" virus. At the same time, 19 tuberculosis should now be looked at again 20 because it is increasing in our society. 21 Now, I would like to know, if the 22 Senator with yield, Senator Skelos, in the 23 tradition of conciliation of Senator Tully and 6466 1 in a previous Senate in the previous century of 2 Henry Clay, would you be willing to change the 3 definition of the purpose or general idea of the 4 bill to conform with what you said in this 5 chamber it is all about, which you cannot tell 6 from reading this, because from reading this 7 explanation, you single out a cohort of the 8 population, rather than getting to the heart of 9 the matter which I think we should reach. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 11 Senator Skelos, do you yield? 12 SENATOR SKELOS: I'll try to 13 answer Senator Lachman's question. If you - 14 perhaps you're reading a memo, but if you would 15 look at the - 16 SENATOR LACHMAN: I'm reading 17 your memorandum in support of the legislation. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. Well - 19 SENATOR LACHMAN: And this is 20 right on top, the first paragraph. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: If you would 22 look at line 27, we define "Transmissible 23 disease shall include the immunodeficiency 6467 1 virus, HIV or any of its derivatives, hepatitis 2 and any of its derivatives, tuberculosis and any 3 other serious illness which the court finds the 4 petitioner could have a reasonable expectation 5 of contracting from a subject as a result of the 6 alleged exposure." 7 SENATOR LACHMAN: Would the 8 Senator continue to yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT HOBLOCK: 10 Senator Skelos, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 12 SENATOR LACHMAN: Would you, 13 therefore, be willing to change the top 14 paragraph of the purpose or general idea of the 15 bill which gives an erroneous impression about 16 the objective of the bill? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I just - 18 I could answer that by saying we pass 19 legislation, not memos, but I'm not sure which 20 memo - 21 SENATOR LACHMAN: But there are 22 memos to explain the legislation. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not sure 6468 1 which memo you're talking about. Is that the 2 sponsor's memo? 3 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. It says 4 Harvey Weisenberg. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: For the "A" 6 version or the "B" version -- or the regular 7 version, which version? 8 SENATOR LACHMAN: Sorry. I'm 9 told I'm supposed to stand. 10 It says "Memorandum in support of 11 legislation submitted in accordance with 12 Assembly Rule 3, Section 1 (e)", and the first 13 paragraph after the definition of the title of 14 the bill discusses the purpose or general idea 15 of the bill and singles out a specific cohort of 16 the population rather than the rest of the 17 population. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Lachman, 19 again, I hate to be debating memos, but my 20 sponsor's memo says, "New York State Senate 21 introducer's memorandum in support submitted in 22 accordance of certain rules", and then it says, 23 "Senate Bill S.653-A." Is that the memo that 6469 1 you're looking at? 2 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. Maybe we 3 have different versions of the same memo. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: It says 653-A? 5 Okay. I'D be delighted at some point to change 6 the memo then. Do you have the Assembly memo or 7 the Senate memo, because you said "in accordance 8 with the Assembly rules." 9 SENATOR LACHMAN: It says -- I'm 10 sorry. It says "Member of Assembly and 11 Senators." Your name is listed along with 12 Assemblyman Weisenberg. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: That, I don't 14 believe is our memo, Senator Lachman. 15 SENATOR LACHMAN: It must be the 16 Assembly memo then. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger, you're next on the list. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 One question for the sponsor. I 22 want to follow up on the point that Senator 23 Abate made. 6470 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If we drafted 8 a bill that said if a police officer or court 9 officer is in a position where there might be an 10 exposure to any one of the transmittable 11 diseases that you mentioned, the officer could 12 go to the medical officer of the department for 13 which they work, be it the police department or 14 a court officer, and if the physician said that 15 there was probable cause -- a physician 16 determined that they were in a situation in 17 which exposure could occur, that the state of 18 New York would pay to have that person tested 19 for whatever transmittable disease that existed 20 and they would pay for the cost of that. Would 21 you support that bill? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm supporting 23 the bill that's before me right now. 6471 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 2 you, Mr. President. Would you support that 3 bill? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: I would have to 5 see the entire bill or the provisions and 6 certainly I would have an open mind. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Well, 8 Mr. President, it's my hypothetical. It's very 9 simple. If an officer believes that they have 10 been exposed, they go to the chief medical 11 officer of their employer, relate the facts 12 under which they believe they were exposed, the 13 chief medical officer would then say either, 14 Yes, that's a reasonable likelihood that you 15 were exposed or he would say, No, there's no 16 chance you were exposed and then the employee 17 would have the choice of either appealing the 18 decision or review of the decision, but bottom 19 line is that if the physician said there's a 20 reasonable likelihood of exposure, then the 21 state of New York would pay to have that person 22 tested for every possible transmittable 23 disease. Would you support - 6472 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I'd have to 2 think about it, Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 4 Mr. President, on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 8 Waldon talked about Senator Skelos' dancing 9 ability, and he's been at Arthur Murray a number 10 of visits recently because -- my question was 11 rather pointed and direct - 12 SENATOR SKELOS: The difference 13 between you and me is I have maybe two right 14 feet and you have two left feet. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I may even 16 take that as an accurate description, Mr. 17 President, but the point I'm trying to make is 18 that the problem that Senator Skelos' 19 legislation addresses is an important one, that 20 is, what are the circumstances under which the 21 people who are out on the front lines of 22 fighting crime and handling our court system, 23 what's the chance that they're going to be 6473 1 exposed to something that could adversely impact 2 their health. 3 But Senator Abate is correct. 4 Senator Waldon is correct. Senator Leichter is 5 correct. There's just no point -- no point in 6 raising everybody's anxiety level by testing the 7 person who might be the suspected carrier. 8 The far better solution to this 9 problem, the absolutely irrebuttable solution to 10 this problem, the best way to handle this 11 problem, the way that actually solves the 12 problem rather than dances around the edge is to 13 simply have the state of New York, through the 14 Public Health Law or other provisions, give to 15 the police officer or the corrections officer or 16 the court officer the ability to be tested to 17 find out whether they've actually got it. 18 I think Senator Abate made a good 19 point when she said all this bill will do is 20 require that that be done as the second step. 21 This is the first step in the dance. It's the 22 second step in the dance that really gives you 23 the information that you need to be able to make 6474 1 proper health decisions and that is, regardless 2 of what the suspected carrier has as a disease, 3 the question is, do you have it? It's a logical 4 question. We ought to be able to give our 5 corrections officers, our court officers - 6 excuse me. This just applies to court officers 7 and police officers -- we ought to be able to 8 give them some assurance that we care enough 9 about them, not just to tell them that they 10 might be exposed, but that they actually have 11 it. That's what you really need to do to solve 12 this problem. 13 This bill is all about -- in my 14 judgment, about dancing around the political 15 periphery and not getting to the heart of the 16 issue. If you want to get to the heart of the 17 issue, put together a bill that says if you're a 18 court officer or a police officer, you think you 19 have been exposed, go to a medical director, 20 have the medical director conclude -- reach a 21 conclusion based on the facts given that there's 22 a likelihood that you were exposed, and the 23 state of New York will pay for the cost of the 6475 1 testing, both then and six months from then - 2 from the time of suspected transmission and a 3 year from the time of suspected transmission, so 4 that we can put the police officers and court 5 officers of this state at ease in knowing 6 whether or not they've contracted one of these 7 potentially dangerous if not fatal diseases. 8 If you want to solve the problem, 9 that's the way you solve the problem. This 10 doesn't solve the problem. This just, in my 11 judgment, creates a political posture that says 12 we've done something politically popular but we 13 haven't solved the problem. 14 I concur with my colleagues who 15 say, if you want to do it, there's a simple way 16 to do it. Let's do it that way and get the job 17 done. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Paterson is next on the list, but he's absent 20 from the chamber momentarily. 21 Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr. 23 President, I think that we, unfortunately in 6476 1 this chamber have our enemies list, and whenever 2 things get slow, particularly at this time of 3 the year when we don't have a budget, something 4 gets rolled out so that we can have another 5 scapegoat out there to take a shot at. 6 If there were a law, I guess we 7 could get a bill put out that says banning 8 abortions in the 11th month. After all, you 9 know, some people carry past the ninth month. 10 You never know, and you certainly don't want 11 11-month abortions. Then we'll have to vote on 12 that. 13 I'm concerned about this bill for 14 one reason, Senator Skelos, and it's a really 15 very practical reason, and I would hope that you 16 would see it as a practical reason. 17 There are some people in this 18 chamber who very rightfully take predictable 19 positions on any bill dealing with AIDS, and the 20 rumors in the back rooms here are that, Well, 21 they've got certain constituencies and when get 22 into a certain central part of New York City, 23 they react to these kinds of bills. 6477 1 I, for one, understand very much 2 how difficult it is being a police officer, 3 being a correction officer, being subjected in 4 any of these circumstances, but I'll tell you 5 what's wrong with the bill, Senator, and it's 6 more practical than it is philosophical. 7 We have in the last few months 8 seen what is probably, in my recollection, the 9 most unprecedented attack on the judiciary by 10 irresponsible press -- well, irresponsible press 11 is really the same word, I guess -- than I have 12 ever seen. And what happens when that happens? 13 We in this country have prided 14 ourselves in things called separation of 15 powers. We prided ourselves in the fact that if 16 you have an independent judiciary, you won't 17 have what you had in Nazi Germany where judges, 18 in their own defense at trials after the war 19 said, They made me do it and I only followed bad 20 laws, et cetera, et cetera. We always prided 21 ourselves in an independent judiciary. 22 Judges, male and female, are only 23 people. They are only people. Hopefully, 6478 1 they're our best people, but they're only 2 people, and I can tell you, Senator Skelos, that 3 in the last few months there are unquestionably 4 judges, decent people, who are making decisions 5 that they don't necessarily believe in or that 6 maybe they wouldn't have made a year ago because 7 they're concerned about how somebody in the 8 press is going to write about it. 9 Now, I believe that as a member 10 of the Legislature we should be responsible to 11 the people who elect us. There's no doubt about 12 that. I believe that as a member of the 13 judiciary, a judge should be responsible to the 14 society which he is representing or she is 15 representing but, Senator, the problem with the 16 bill is that probable cause, as I see it, is not 17 really spelled out and it's an invitation to a 18 judge to say, Look, what's the harm? Somebody 19 did it and we'll give the test. It may have an 20 effect. It may not have an effect. There may 21 have to be another test, but I'm not reading my 22 name in the New York "blah, blah, blah", and 23 this irresponsible reporter or that 6479 1 irresponsible reporter ain't going to pick me 2 out as one the junk justice just because let 3 somebody else worry about it and that, Senator 4 Skelos, is dangerous because you're always 5 talking about that first crack in the dam, that 6 first opening of the door. That's what these 7 things are all about, because then we start to 8 create precedents, and we in this Legislature 9 should be very careful about the precedents that 10 we create. 11 Judges are honorable people; 12 there's no doubt about it, trying to do 13 honorable work. If you're asking me whether or 14 not we should have restraints upon the press, 15 absolutely not. I mean, if you have to take one 16 of two evils, you give me the freedom of press 17 we have in this country and, yes, even the 18 irresponsibility that goes with it, but on the 19 other hand, we have to understand the doors that 20 we open up. 21 If you have a situation as you 22 admit it to be, Senator Skelos -- and you are an 23 honest man -- you have a situation as you 6480 1 understand it to be, that the only protection an 2 officer would have is for self-examination, then 3 what in the heck are we doing in this bill? 4 What are we doing? 5 I think that the dangers in this 6 bill far outweigh any situation where we would 7 be helping a police officer, and I intend to 8 vote against it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 12 Senator Paterson wants to come in and debate the 13 bill, and if I could, on behalf of Senator Levy, 14 there will be a meeting of the Transportation 15 Committee at noon in Room 124 of the Capitol to 16 consider nominations. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: By way of 18 announcement, Senator Levy has called a 19 Transportation Committee meeting at noon, ten 20 minutes from now, in Room 124 of the Capitol. 21 Is there any other Senator 22 besides Senator Paterson wishing to speak on 23 this bill? 6481 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 4 Skelos yield to just a couple other questions? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 8 The testing that's required under 9 this bill for the suspected transmitter, would 10 that cost -- you mentioned that that would be 11 covered by the Public Health Law, is that 12 correct? 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Public health 14 officer would be in charge of the testing 15 proceeding. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. But 17 who pays for it? 18 SENATOR SKELOS: It comes out of 19 that county or town. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So it 21 would be paid for by the county. Is there any 22 provision here to have the state pay any portion 23 of this? 6482 1 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. So 3 this is a mandate that we're requiring counties 4 to pay for. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: This is 6 protecting police officers and peace officers. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 8 Somehow I have a feeling my county executive 9 would come back and tell me that's a mandate. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I think your 11 county executive would be delighted to protect 12 police officers and peace officers. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, he may 14 tell you that. He may not quite tell me that, 15 but let me just follow up on that if I may, Mr. 16 President. What's the possibility that Workers' 17 Compensation would cover the cost? 18 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't know the 19 answer to that. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, if it 21 were a cost related to the employee's exposure, 22 if it were anticipated that there might be a 23 disease that were transmitted, wouldn't that be 6483 1 covered by Workers' Compensation? 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Possibly if it 3 was part of an injury. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But -- again 5 through you, Mr. President. If it was an 6 exposure which creates the potential for injury, 7 wouldn't there be a compensation recovery? I 8 mean, wouldn't you -- wouldn't this become part 9 of Workers' Compensation to cover the cost? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't believe 11 so. I think if there was an injury, possibly. 12 Without an injury, no. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 14 you, Mr. President. What's the possibility that 15 health insurance on the part of the police 16 officer would cover the exposure? 17 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't -- I 18 don't believe so. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again 20 through you, Mr. President, suppose the officer 21 goes to his private physician and says, "I think 22 I have been exposed to TB or HIV and I'd like to 23 find out whether I have been exposed", wouldn't 6484 1 his health insurance cover that if his physician 2 recommended it? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: I have no idea 4 what that person's policy says. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, 6 wouldn't it be logical to assume that they would 7 pay for it? 8 SENATOR SKELOS: I -- you know, 9 with many health insurance policies, there's 10 logic to them and there's non-logic to them. So 11 I would have to look at the individual policy. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, Mr. 13 President, I believe Senator Paterson may have 14 additional questions that he wants to follow up 15 on this, but the issue of the payments through 16 other sources, either through Workers' Comp' or 17 through health insurance, I think is another 18 aspect to this bill that raises the possibility 19 that there's another way to do this to 20 accomplish the beneficial result that you want 21 without having to go through this 22 around-the-corner approach of requiring the 23 testing of the suspected transmitter. 6485 1 I'll yield to Senator Paterson. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 3 recognizes Senator Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 5 I think most of the questions I would have asked 6 Senator Skelos have already been asked quite 7 eloquently by other members, but since he was 8 standing, I wondered if he would yield for one 9 more question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Skelos, do you yield? The Senator yields. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 15 Skelos, should this bill be made law -- and I 16 see you've worked very hard on it, and I don't 17 know of any more diligent staff than the one 18 that you possess. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: I agree with 20 you. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: -- the 22 question is do you think that this legislation 23 could act as somewhat of a deterrence or perhaps 6486 1 even raise false hopes if the suspect tests 2 negative and the victim who is a peace officer, 3 corrections officer -- police officer, I'm sorry 4 -- then is misguided into feeling that there is 5 no need to be self-tested. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: No. I believe 7 this legislation will provide a peace of mind 8 for the police officer or the peace officer by 9 the fact that the person that they're concerned 10 with in carrying a transmissible disease, 11 whether that person has it or does not have it. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 if Senator Skelos would continue to yield. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: That's the 18 part that I'm just not understanding. This is 19 one of those pieces of legislation that we come 20 to the floor, we debate them, but we're not 21 going to have our minds changed, but this is one 22 of those pieces of legislation that I could have 23 my mind changed. In fact, I have been reviewing 6487 1 it with your staff all morning, and my point is 2 that if you could give me the criteria that 3 establishes the standard of what we're now 4 calling peace of mind -- because we have already 5 understood that we would test the convicted 6 because we're now going to have them in 7 facilities and they're going to have contact 8 with perhaps corrections officers, and that kind 9 of thing, so then we would have testing, and I 10 think both you and I would agree that a 11 convicted felon should be tested, but now let's 12 take a look at this situation. We have a 13 suspect that's been taken into custody. The 14 officer believes that there may have been some 15 contact, but what we're saying is that the fact 16 that this test is administered and the fact that 17 results come in and the suspect tests negative, 18 how does that establish peace of mind when the 19 suspect may actually have tested negative that 20 day, another week or two tests positive and then 21 the victim, who is the police officer, 22 eventually tests positive; where is the peace of 23 mind? 6488 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe I 2 heard that same argument with the baby AIDS 3 debate. Again, here, two great minds are 4 differing, Senator Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: No, no. 6 Senator, I don't - 7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe that 8 by the fact that this legislation is being 9 supported by the New York City PBA, the Nassau 10 County PBA, the Metropolitan Police Conference, 11 on and on who represent these individuals we're 12 trying to protect, that if they felt that they 13 would not -- that this legislation was not 14 necessary to protect their members, they would 15 not be supportive of it. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 if the Senator would continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PATERSON: On the baby 21 AIDS bill, we have a slightly different 22 circumstance in which I don't think this 23 argument has as much merit. One is that the 6489 1 baby who we're worried about doesn't have any 2 independence and so the testing on that issue, 3 even though I voted against the bill, I would 4 have to concede that the test in that case, 5 based on the information you're presenting right 6 now, would be far more valid, but here we have 7 an individual who can make a decision, and what 8 you're saying in this legislation is we want to 9 establish peace of mind. That's how we're 10 categorizing it, and so I'm giving you a 11 possibility, a scenario. 12 The suspect is arrested. The 13 suspect tests negative. Where is the peace of 14 mind, because unless the person tests 15 themselves, they don't really know, not because 16 we do or do not care about the police officer or 17 that we differ or we have a differing point of 18 view, regardless of what the calibration of our 19 minds are, we're not disagreeing here. 20 I'm just saying to you that since 21 we know it's certainly possible and more than 22 just a scintilla, pretty representative that the 23 test will not reveal whether or not the officer 6490 1 -- the peace officer or police officer that 2 we're trying to protect can contract one of the 3 many viruses that you're talking about, I'm just 4 asking you, where is the peace of mind? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: I think that's 6 not necessarily true because we're dealing with 7 diseases like tuberculosis, which is a bacterial 8 disease, where the person who is infected with 9 it may test positive, but the police officer who 10 has been infected by it or possibly infected by 11 it at that point does not test positive. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 Senator Skelos, in the issue of tuberculosis - 14 and I think you went over this with some of our 15 colleagues -- that -- a simple blood test would 16 not confirm that a person has tuberculosis one 17 way or the other. So for the purposes of this 18 conversation, I would rather not even talk about 19 tuberculosis. I would just like to stick to HIV 20 testing, and I'm just saying that since the test 21 doesn't give a -- any kind of permanence -- you 22 see, what I'm trying to get you to understand 23 is - 6491 1 SENATOR SKELOS: I understand 2 what you're saying, Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, let me 4 just add to it. -- that if you could show me 5 that there is an overwhelming -- that the odds 6 are overwhelming, that the test of the suspect 7 would actually give us valid information about 8 what's happening to the victim, I don't think 9 we'd have any further discussion. I would be 10 willing to take the chance. 11 In other words, I'm saying that 12 to protect the police officer or the peace 13 officer, I would have to follow your 14 recommendation, but what I'm saying is that it's 15 so unreliable -- it's not totally unreliable. 16 It's certainly a very good indicator, but it's 17 so medically inconclusive that other than the 18 fact that we're testing the person just because 19 we'd like to know -- and maybe we need to have a 20 discussion of, do we need to test the suspect 21 just because it may be a good policy; we just 22 need to know while a person is in one of our 23 institutions. We could have that discussion, 6492 1 but what I'm saying - 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Does that 3 include AIDS testing? 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: So you believe 6 every individual, that when they enter into a - 7 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I'm not 8 saying that I believe a person - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: -- a 10 corrections institution that they should be 11 tested for all transmissible diseases, including 12 AIDS. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I'm not 14 saying that I believe it. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: So AIDS should 16 be a -- should be excluded from all testing. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: I don't 18 believe either. I don't believe either of the 19 tests - 20 SENATOR SKELOS: 15 percent of 21 the inmates are HIV-positive and they shouldn't 22 be tested for AIDS but other diseases should be 23 tested. 6493 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, I think 2 that all of the convicted inmates should be 3 tested because that becomes a matter of security 4 and a matter of designation. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: For all 6 diseases, including AIDS. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: For all 8 diseases, including - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, all 10 transmissible diseases, including AIDS, TB, 11 hepatitis, AIDS, would you include the testing 12 for the AIDS virus in your statement? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Among inmates 14 in our state prisons? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Absolutely. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Okay. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Absolutely, 19 but what I'm talking about here are individuals 20 who have not been convicted, who have been 21 charged with a crime, where we haven't fully 22 even established that there is enough contact 23 between the victim -- between the suspect and 6494 1 the victim, and what I'm asking you is how you 2 can offer to the police personnel or the peace 3 officers, how can you offer them peace of mind 4 when you don't have medical information to make 5 the statement that you now have peace of mind 6 because we went and we tested the person that 7 did this to you and we have established that 8 they do not have one of these viruses, so you - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: First of all, in 10 terms of probable cause is necessary for the 11 person to be tested, I think we just have a 12 disagreement. The groups that represent the 13 police officers, the correction officers, people 14 that we're talking about support this 15 legislation and they feel it gives them 16 sufficient peace of mind. So there's obviously 17 a disagreement between you and the police unions 18 who represent these individuals. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Last question, 20 Senator. Would you please tell me what 21 information -- so that we wouldn't want these 22 organizations that are fighting for the 23 well-being of police officers, we wouldn't want 6495 1 them to be confused, and I would suggest that to 2 you that they might be a little confused, not 3 because they don't care, but because they may 4 have been misled, and that was my original 5 question to you. Would this kind of legislation 6 mislead people, and just by telling me that 7 these groups support it, you're just furthering 8 to me the confusion that's being caused by the 9 legislation because you're - 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't believe 11 it would mislead them. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay, because 13 you're enumerating a number of groups that are 14 in support of the organization, but you have yet 15 to tell me what information causes them to feel 16 that this would establish peace of mind. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: They have 18 supported the legislation. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 on the -- on the bill. 21 Their support of the legislation 22 of and in itself does not establish that they 23 have peace of mind, and what it means is that 6496 1 they believe that the passage of this 2 legislation would help. If they can't give a 3 reason why they supported the legislation, it 4 leads me back to my original premise, which is 5 that the legislation creates a presumption for 6 which there is no factual evidence that sustains 7 it. The testing of the suspect does not give us 8 enough relevant data to make a medical 9 determination for what is happening to the 10 victim, police officer or peace officer. 11 When we passed the legislation 12 about HIV testing for sexual offenders just a 13 couple of weeks ago, the sponsors of the 14 legislation admitted that the best way for the 15 victim to learn the status of their medical 16 condition is by their own testing. PCR testing 17 right away would be one way to establish it 18 completely. 19 In this situation, I did not hear 20 in this entire long debate any information, not 21 one piece of information that established to me 22 that the testing of the suspect would give us 23 relevant data that would relate to the medical 6497 1 condition of the victim. 2 Although the legislation, as 3 Senator Gold pointed out, may sound very nice 4 and it may be very certainly appealing as in the 5 sweet-smelling salvos that you might swallow and 6 they taste good, but I'm afraid in this case 7 some of the lobbying groups swallowed this 8 legislation whole. Who can blame them? No one, 9 but who can remind them? We can remind them of 10 the terrible truth that as frightening as it may 11 be, that the individual who may actually feel 12 that they have come in contact with a person who 13 has transmitted the HIV virus or hepatitis B or 14 even tuberculosis for which the test is not 15 substantial enough in this legislation, that 16 that person is going to have to be tested, and 17 to in any way even suggest or hint or imply that 18 by testing the perpetrator -- as much as the 19 perpetrator may deserve a punishment, that 20 punishment will not help us determine what the 21 status of the victim is. 22 This is not something that I feel 23 like getting up here and saying. This is an 6498 1 actual medical fact that is understood by those 2 who work in these situations every day, and so 3 I'm saying by opposing this bill that Senator 4 Skelos is on the right track. He did a lot of 5 work on this legislation, a lot of research, but 6 unfortunately, as appealing as the legislation 7 is, it would only help to, in my opinion, 8 confuse individuals and would actually almost 9 compel them in a way not to get themselves 10 tested because they think, Well, the odds are, 11 you know, he didn't have it so I guess I don't 12 have it, and that could be so destructive, and 13 when any of those peace officers or police 14 personnel find out what actually could happen 15 under their bill, I think they would have a 16 different point of view, and I would hope that 17 the advocates for the legislation can come up 18 with at least a reason for why they think it 19 would establish peace of mind, because I 20 certainly couldn't vote for this bill with peace 21 of mind. I wouldn't want to contribute to the 22 transference of any information that would cause 23 people to take an action that might inure to 6499 1 their own detriment. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 I'm going to be supporting this 15 bill. The PBA feels that this is going to offer 16 some peace of mind to their law enforcement 17 officers and to other -- other potential victims 18 of transmittable diseases. I'm not at all sure 19 it will, but I'm going to support this. I think 20 there are major flaws here in that testing 21 someone else is not going to help you determine 22 your HIV status and, of course, the most major 23 area of concern won't be addressed, namely, does 6500 1 the law enforcement officer have the disease or 2 does merely the person he's apprehending? 3 More to the point would be to 4 offer testing to all police officers themselves 5 personally than to test the apprehended person, 6 but I'll support it in that I believe the PBA 7 believes that this will cause a calming effect. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the 10 affirmative. 11 Announce the results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 347 are Senators 14 Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Lachman, 15 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Nanula, 16 Paterson, Santiago, Seabrook and Waldon. Ayes 17 41, nays 14. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 The Secretary will continue to - 21 Senator Nanula, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 6501 1 I would like to request unanimous 2 consent to be recorded in the negative on 3 Calendar Number 331. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Nanula 6 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 7 Number 331. 8 Senator Leichter, why do you 9 rise? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 11 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 971, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 15 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 16 Calendar Number 911. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: 971. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 19 me. It's 971. 20 Senator Montgomery. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 22 President, I would like unanimous consent to be 23 in the negative on Calendar 306. 6502 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 3 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 4 Calendar Number 306. 5 Senator Santiago, why do you 6 rise? 7 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 8 I would like to be recorded in the negative on 9 Calendar 331, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 12 Santiago will be recorded in the negative on 13 Calendar Number 331. 14 The Secretary will continue to 15 call the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 496, by Senator Gold, Senate Print 2978-A, an 18 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 19 allowing a child. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 6503 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 874, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2529, an 9 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 10 empowering community boards. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 874 15 has been asked for by the Acting Minority 16 Leader, Senator Paterson. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 Under the decentralization law 20 that was adopted a quarter of a century ago, 21 school districts in the city of New York are 22 given the authority to manage schools, operate 23 them and facilities under their jurisdiction. 6504 1 One of the authorities not given 2 to them -- and I believe it was an oversight - 3 was the right to determine when because of 4 inclement weather schools should be closed in a 5 specific school district. There's a very 6 practical reason for this. 7 The city of New York, there are 8 parts of the city that are far flung, 9 communities in Staten Island, eastern Queens, 10 northern Bronx, where the weather, a snowstorm 11 as an example, could be substantially more 12 extreme than it would be in perhaps the inner 13 city, and the authority given to superintendents 14 to make a judgment, one that relates 15 specifically to the safety of pupils and 16 personnel on a given day is an authority that I 17 think they should have. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 19 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 20 Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 just to show what an open mind I have, I think 23 Senator Padavan has just convinced me. I think 6505 1 we should all vote for this bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is that a 3 party vote in the affirmative? 4 The Secretary will read the last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 888, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 6055-A, an 16 act to amend the State Finance Law. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos, an explanation of Calendar Number 888 20 has been asked for. Senator Saland is not in 21 the chamber. What's your pleasure? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 23 temporarily and proceed with -- lay it aside for 6506 1 the day. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 will be laid aside for the day at the request of 4 the sponsor. 5 The Secretary will continue to 6 call the controversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1022, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Print 10508, an act legalizing, 10 certifying and confirming the acts of St. 11 Johnsville. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an 6507 1 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in 2 relation to deleting the value limitation. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 4 please. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you stand 6 at ease for a moment. 7 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 8 ease.) 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 could we lay that aside temporarily. I would 11 ask the members as the bills come up for debate, 12 to please be in the chamber, if you're a sponsor 13 of the bill or you wish to debate the bill. 14 We're in the -- hopefully the last few days of 15 session and it's very important we be here to 16 move ahead in an ordinary fashion. 17 If we could, Mr. President, take 18 up Senator Velella's bill, Calendar Number 1238. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1238. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1238, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6959-A, 23 an act authorizing the commissioner of General 6508 1 Services. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 if we could continue with the calendar, reg... 15 controversial calendar, regular order. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will continue to call the 18 controversial calendar, beginning with Calendar 19 Number 1125. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1125, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 329, an act 22 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 23 relation to pedestrians' right of way and 6509 1 crosswalks. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Star that at the 9 request of the sponsor. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is starred at the request of the sponsor. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1189, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7133, 14 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 17 President, this -- this bill exempts from the 18 freedom of information requests material 19 provided by small businesses to the 20 Environmental Facilities Corporation. The 21 corporation is multi-media and environmental 22 assistance. 23 The Environmental Facilities 6510 1 Corporation, known as the EFC, currently has 2 authority to provide multi-media environmental 3 assistance to small businesses and under current 4 law, information provided by small businesses to 5 the EFC in connection with the provision of such 6 services would, to the extent such information 7 constitutes a record, be subject to the 8 disclosure requirements of the Freedom of 9 Information Law. 10 In contrast, when providing 11 similar services to small businesses to comply 12 with the Clean Air Act, under the Small Business 13 Stationary Source Technical and Environmental 14 Compliance Assistance Program, the information 15 provided about the EFC by participating 16 businesses is expressly exempted from FOIL. 17 This legislation would extend a similar Freedom 18 of Information Law exemption to information 19 provided to the EFC by small businesses in 20 connection with the provision of multi-media 21 assistance. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Oppenheimer. 6511 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I think 2 there is a better way of getting around the 3 problem of having small businesses provide the 4 information. I don't think that -- I'm speaking 5 on the bill -- that reaching a key understanding 6 which citizens have with their government of 7 open government and making records available to 8 -- to all the citizens who are interested in 9 this subject, I don't think that's advanced by 10 this bill. I don't think closing our government 11 files is the right way to go. 12 We do want to offer incentives to 13 have compliance by small business, and we do 14 offer things right now like assuring them that 15 their trade secrets will not be exposed under 16 the Freedom of Information Law, but exempting 17 them from this full compliance with providing 18 information to the general public, I think could 19 only hide possibly environmental violations. We 20 would not like that. We believe in the 21 availability of all government records, and 22 that's why the environmental advocates generally 23 believe this is not a good bill and opposes it. 6512 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results when tabulated. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1189 are 12 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Kruger, 13 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, 14 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago and Seabrook. 15 Ayes 43, nays 12. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 The Secretary will continue to 19 call the controversial calendar. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 22 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6513 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 4 the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside for the day. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1229, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 935-A, an 9 act to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to 10 liability. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1229 16 has been asked for by Senator Leichter. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, this 18 bill protects volunteer firefighter companies, 19 the districts or department from a strict 20 liability cause of action when a petroleum 21 product is discharged into the ground or water 22 while responding to a fire-related emergency 23 where there is no indication of willful or gross 6514 1 negligence on the part of the named individual. 2 What we're saying is that in this 3 bill, if firefighters respond to an incident and 4 it was shown that they were neglectful, willful 5 and gross negligence, they can be held liable, 6 but if they're in pursuit of their duties and 7 something happens, it is not neglect. It's 8 something that the Association of Fire Districts 9 of the state of New York have been trying to get 10 because more and more firefighters are being 11 called to respond to these incidents, and there 12 is no protection for them out there doing their 13 job properly. This is mainly a volunteer force, 14 and they should have some protection. 15 As you'll note that there is a 16 complaint by the Trial Lawyers, but my response 17 to the Trial Lawyers is that the volunteer fire 18 companies are not afforded blanket immunity. 19 Firefighters, the companies will be held liable 20 if they are found to have an act -- have acted 21 with willful or gross negligence. As such, they 22 shall be granted immunity from only strict 23 liability when they are actually performing 6515 1 their job and they're doing what they have been 2 taught and trained to do and to do properly. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 4 Senator Larkin, it sounds like a reasonable bill 5 to me. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you very 7 much, Senator. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1231, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1999, an 20 act to amend the General City Law. 21 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Goodman, you asked to speak on the bill? 6516 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: No, Mr. 2 President. I was out of the chamber a few 3 moments ago. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Goodman, we're on a bill on a roll of debate 6 right now. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: I understand. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Could we 9 take care of that first? 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: I'm sorry, 11 Senator. I yield to the Senator. 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 18 question on this bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Nozzolio, do you yield to a question from 21 Senator Dollinger? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 6517 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 4 short question. Since there's been a roughly 5 comparable situation in the city of Rochester 6 and I'm not familiar with the city of Auburn, 7 are there any memos in opposition from the local 8 plumbers union with respect to this -- this 9 bill, do you know? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator 11 Dollinger -- Mr. President, through you -- that, 12 no, there have been no memos that I'm aware of 13 in opposition. The situation is not similar to 14 Rochester, Senator Dollinger, in the sense that 15 Auburn has 33,000 people, and what they're 16 having is a very difficult time finding the 17 qualified plumbers to serve on these boards that 18 reside within the city limits, and that's the 19 sum and substance of the reason for the request 20 that they're not asking for any -- any efforts 21 to be not in compliance with the building code. 22 It's just the training and other requirements 23 and the supply of trained, skilled labor - 6518 1 organized labor plumbers. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you for 3 that clarification. It is not the situation in 4 the city of Rochester. I appreciate the 5 clarification. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Velella. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 18 can we move to Calendar 1078, Senate 6459, by 19 Senator Goodman. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We can. 21 Just a minute. 22 Senator Leibell, why do you 23 rise? 6519 1 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 2 could I ask unanimous consent on Calendar 1189, 3 Senate 7130.. 7133 to be recorded in the 4 negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Leibell 7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 8 Number 1189. 9 Senator Leichter, why do you 10 rise? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 12 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar 874. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 16 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 17 Calendar Number 874. 18 Senator Goodman. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Can I too be 20 recorded in the negative on 1189. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Goodman 23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 6520 1 Number 1189. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 3 can we -- can we -- there will be an immediate 4 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Senate 5 Majority Conference Room. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 8 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules 9 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 10 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 11 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 12 Now the Secretary will read 13 Calendar Number 1078. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1078, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 6459, an 16 act to amend the Public Buildings Law, in 17 relation to deleting the value limitation. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Goodman, an explanation of Calendar Number 1078 22 has been asked for by the Acting Minority 23 Leader, Senator Paterson. 6521 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Senator, this 2 is a departmental bill from the department of 3 general -- the Office of General Services, and 4 its purpose is to remove the incapacitating and 5 potentially severely detrimental maximum value 6 limitation of $200,000 which restricts emergency 7 construction contracts authorized to be let by 8 the commissioner of General Services. 9 To get to the core of this, we 10 occasionally have serious emergency repair 11 requirements, and I'll give you an example or 12 two to just illustrate this. In 1991, it was 13 necessary promptly to repair ventilating and 14 air-conditioning equipment on several floors of 15 Building 8 of the Harriman State Office Campus 16 to preclude the long-term loss of essential 17 operations of the Department of Taxation and 18 Finance, and then there was the necessity in 19 July of 1993 to replace a major transformer 20 following a fire and explosion in the Corning 21 Tower building, each costing several million 22 dollars. 23 These illustrate the 6522 1 unpredictability of major casualties and the 2 building space losses which must be restored by 3 emergency contracts priced far in excess of 4 $200,000. I may say just to fill this out that 5 we do have -- there has been opposition to the 6 necessary removal of the $200,000 emergency 7 limitation emanating from a concern that the 8 required emergency response by informal, 9 competitive contracting be limited only to those 10 measures which must be immediately taken and 11 accordingly, this bill had previously been 12 amended to develop -- and develop -- the 13 amendments developed jointly with the state 14 comptroller's office which authorized that 15 emergency contracting method be used only for 16 the -- be used only with respect to those 17 aspects of the -- of repair work which has 18 determined to be performed but 130 days 19 following the emergency loss. 20 The remedial work not capable of 21 being performed within such short period would 22 be awarded through the normal formal contracting 23 process. 6523 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 Senator Goodman has certainly established the 7 threshold that would bring us into the 8 equation. I just want to find out what the 9 limitations or restrictions are, so if my 10 distinguished neighbor and colleague would yield 11 for a few moments to peruse this bill - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Goodman, do you yield? 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, I will, 15 Senator. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I can 19 understand that a number of situations as you 20 described, particularly the one in 1991, are 21 really an example of what would be the catalyst 22 for writing this legislation, that the 23 limitation actually serve to be a hindrance in 6524 1 an emergency situation. 2 What I am concerned with is the 3 abuse of this new authority on behalf of not the 4 current commissioner, but just a commissioner of 5 the department of general services, and what I'm 6 specifically talking about is that we now have 7 no limitation in any contract could just be 8 deemed an emergency and that's the way you would 9 get around certain obstacles, and there's a 10 tendency in these types of situations to feel 11 that issues are rising to the level of an 12 emergency when, in fact, there might be a better 13 way to do them. So if you could just assure us 14 or give us the criteria that would persuade us 15 that there still are restrictions and that there 16 is at least some method of determining what an 17 emergency situation is, I'd feel a lot more 18 comfortable supporting the bill. 19 SENATOR GOODMAN: Well, Senator, 20 as I indicated, one of the major safeguards that 21 have been instituted in this in consultation 22 with the comptroller's office has been the 23 provision that any work requiring more than 30 6525 1 days will not be given the latitude within this 2 bill, and I think that that is a safeguard 3 that's quite comprehensive, and in the judgment 4 of the comptroller's office having reviewed this 5 quite carefully, their feeling is that the 6 emergency authority granted is reasonable and 7 appropriate and without it, actually there would 8 be quite a crisis created, as I indicated a few 9 moments ago. Unless we grant this authority, it 10 becomes virtually impossible to make prompt 11 repairs to major breakdowns, such as the type 12 that did occur in the Corning Tower that I 13 described and, therefore, I think the 30-day 14 limitation is one which should respond 15 substantially to your concerns. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 19 Goodman yield to just one question? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Goodman, do you yield? 22 SENATOR GOODMAN: No debate would 23 be complete, Senator, without having the 6526 1 privilege of yielding to a searching question 2 from you. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, the 4 examples that you cited in your memorandum, were 5 they all completed within 30 days? 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, they were, 7 Senator. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In each of 9 those instances, the transformer was repaired 10 within 30 days? 11 SENATOR GOODMAN: To the best of 12 my knowledge, they were, yes. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Dollinger, on the bill. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I share 18 Senator Paterson's concerns about deviating from 19 our public bidding laws, even in instances in 20 emergencies. It seems to me to spend $200,000 21 in public money in an emergency is a reasonable 22 limitation on the authority to give to OGS to do 23 this, and I for one continue to favor those laws 6527 1 and believe that even in instances such as this, 2 they can work, and so I'm going to be voting in 3 the negative on this, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 12 the results when tabulated. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 1, 14 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1234, by Member of the Assembly - 19 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 21 would you recognize Senator Seward. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Seward, why do you rise? 6528 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 2 would just like to announce that at 1:00 p.m., 3 the Energy and Telecommunications Committee will 4 be having a committee meeting in Room 123 here 5 in the Capitol. 1:00 p.m., Energy and 6 Telecommunications Committee, Room 123 in the 7 Capitol. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 9 will be an Energy and Telecommunications 10 Committee meeting at 1:00 p.m. in Room 123 of 11 the Capitol. 12 Thank you, Senator Seward. 13 The Secretary will continue to 14 call the controversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1234, by Member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly 17 Print 8464, an act in relation to 18 discontinuing. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 Senator Holland, an explanation 22 has been asked for on Calendar Number 1234. 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr. 6529 1 President. This is a bill that I have 2 introduced this bill or similar bills for the 3 last six years. We are privileged to have the 4 Assembly on board finally this year, and they 5 have already passed their bill, as you heard, 6 sponsored by Assemblyman Colman. 7 This bill removes the Spring 8 Valley toll barrier which straddles the middle 9 of the Thruway in Spring Valley in Rockland 10 County. 11 Somewhere around 430,000 autos 12 and trucks go through that toll barrier every 13 month and create a tremendous air pollution 14 problem for Rockland County, a noise pollution 15 problem for Rockland County, a serious 16 congestion problem, not only for the Thruway but 17 other roads off the Thruway, and accidents and, 18 in fact, the state of Connecticut, because of 19 toll barriers straddling their Thruway, removed 20 all their toll barriers a few years ago because 21 of the accidents. 22 Recently, Route 287 came 23 through. You know what Route 287 is? It's 6530 1 really like a beltway around the city of New 2 York, like Baltimore has a beltway, like 3 Washington, D.C. has a beltway, and because of 4 the increase in traffic, the noise pollution, 5 the air pollution and all the other problems 6 have increased 20-fold. In fact, the truck 7 traffic has increased by 100 -- over 100 8 percent, and the revenues for the Thruway 9 Authority from 1994 to 1995 increased by $11-1/2 10 million. 11 The residents of Rockland and 12 Orange County pay approximately 24 percent of 13 the total tolls on the Thruway from Buffalo to 14 Yonkers for only nine percent of the road, from 15 Harriman to Yonkers. We believe this is totally 16 unfair, forget the pollution, forget the noise 17 pollution, et cetera. There are two tolls 18 within 11 miles, Spring Valley and the Tappan 19 Zee Bridge. 20 One of the arguments that some 21 people will probably bring up is that there is a 22 loss in revenue, and yet the Thruway Authority 23 is planning to refurbish the Spring Valley toll 6531 1 barrier -- it was supposed to be this year, I 2 believe -- at the cost of about 96 -- at the 3 cost of about $2.2 million. 4 Another problem that we have is 5 that we in Rockland County paying that 24 6 percent -- Orange and Rockland County paying 7 that 24 percent on nine percent of the roads are 8 also supporting other aspects of the Thruway 9 Authority that do not have tolls. We are - 10 with our tolls, we are supporting the canal 11 system, which is about -- budgeted about $26 12 million in 1996, the Syracuse inner harbor, $650 13 million; Exit 26 bridge, $234 million, the 14 Stewart access road, half a million dollars, 15 Interstate I-84, $9 million. Besides across - 16 Interstate 84, no toll exists there. We support 17 that with our tolls. The Cross-Westchester, no 18 tolls exist there. We support that with our 19 tolls. 20 Of course, before anybody else 21 says it, the Thruway has opposed it, and they 22 say it's for financial reasons, but I want to 23 read something from the office of the 6532 1 comptroller. It's an audit he did on the 1988 2 Capital Plan that was issued November the 22nd, 3 1995, and it says a few things, but one of the 4 things it says is "Authority officials are in 5 agreement with this report." It goes on to say, 6 "According to the Authority's audit of 7 financial statements for the year ended December 8 31st, 1994, the Authority had total operating 9 revenues of 309... $339.5 million, of which 10 315.4, 93 percent was derived from Thruway 11 tolls. Approximately 25 million was derived 12 from restaurants and service stations, 13 concessions, investments and other sources. 14 Operating expenses for the year, including 15 maintenance, operation and administering was 16 $195.6 million. The remaining 143.9 million was 17 either deposited in the Authority's reserve or 18 spent on projects other than the Thruway, 19 interest expense and other purposes." 20 This toll barrier is a pollution 21 problem to the people of Rockland and Orange 22 County, and the Thruway Authority has much money 23 and can do away with this limited amount of 6533 1 revenue that this creates. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 5 Holland yield to a couple of questions? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Holland, do you yield? 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Isn't the 12 comment that you made, Senator, about this being 13 a pollution source equally true of every single 14 toll booth in New York State? 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Well, it is 16 true depending upon the amount of traffic that 17 goes through it. This is one of the busiest 18 tolls. It is a toll that straddles the 19 Thruway. There are six tolls that straddle the 20 Thruway and are not entrances or exits. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, if you come to western New York and 23 go to the Depew station right as you get off the 6534 1 express -- the Thruway to go to Buffalo where 2 there's a toll station, I dare say I'm not 3 familiar with how busy Spring Valley is, but I 4 know that's extremely busy in western New York 5 because all the Thruway traffic goes through it, 6 and I'm not so sure that the argument that it's 7 a pollution source or a source of air and 8 emissions is a sufficient justification for us 9 to do anything, otherwise we would abolish all 10 of the toll booths, wouldn't we? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: That was 12 suggested -- they were supposed to be abolished 13 in 1996, but Governor Cuomo, your governor, 14 appointed a commission which suggested that it 15 be maintained. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lastly, isn't 17 the logic of closing this toll booth -- you 18 talked about the fact that they're nine percent 19 of the population but they pay 24 percent of the 20 tolls. Isn't it because they use 24 percent of 21 the total miles actually traveled on the Thruway 22 system? 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. They use 6535 1 nine percent of the total miles. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Of the total 3 miles. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is that nine 6 percent of the total miles in the two counties 7 or nine percent of the use comes from - 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Nine percent of 9 the total miles runs from the Yonkers toll 10 barrier in Westchester County to the Harriman 11 toll barrier in Orange County. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But if the 13 people in Rockland County or Orange County were 14 using that quite frequently, a natural volume of 15 the use is more than nine percent, isn't it; 16 because I think you said yourself it's very 17 heavily used. So even though it's only nine 18 percent of the road, of the total miles driven 19 on the Thruway every year, it's got to be more 20 than nine percent because so many people use it; 21 isn't that correct? 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: They use it - 23 we use it for commuting back and forth to work, 6536 1 Senator, and we -- and it's right in the middle 2 of the Thruway. You have no way to get on or 3 off and you have to pay the 80 cents daily, yes. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, the 5 point I'm making, Senator, is that even though 6 it's only nine percent of the roads in your 7 community, as far as the total volume of miles 8 driven by people in the Thruway itself, if you 9 took all the miles driven by everybody that had 10 driven it during that year, the percentage 11 that's actually driven in Rockland County is 12 more than nine percent because they use it - 13 the volume is much higher, even though the road 14 distance is relatively short. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: I don't know 16 how that figures, but I suppose you're right. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Dollinger, on the bill. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Even though 22 this is a long way from Monroe County, I'm going 23 to vote against this bill, Senator. I think 6537 1 that this is exactly what the Thruway Authority 2 describes it to be. I think it's unconstitution 3 al. I think it does interfere with the rights 4 of bondholders. I think we in a state in which 5 our bond rating is shaky at best, we shouldn't 6 be doing this. I don't think that we can stand 7 here and tell the Thruway Authority what tolls 8 to collect, what not to collect. 9 If the position is that we should 10 abolish all of the tolls everywhere on the 11 Thruway and turn it into a supported road from 12 the general fund, let's have the courage to do 13 that, but to do it on a piece-by-piece basis 14 seems to make no sense and, frankly, I don't 15 know why everybody in Monroe County wouldn't 16 come in and ask for the same benefit that you're 17 seeking here for Rockland and Orange. 18 I appreciate that all politics is 19 local but in some instances, the public good, 20 the broader public good has to overwhelm that 21 public -- that purely parochial concern and 22 while I appreciate it, I nonetheless cannot 23 support it. 6538 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 just on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT PATERSON: 6 Senator Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: As a matter of 8 technique, I think what Senator Holland may have 9 attempted was to change the Public Authorities 10 Law 373, which really establishes the constitu 11 tionality of what it is that Senator Dollinger 12 is talking about, and it would be expressly 13 unconstituional for us to pass this bill because 14 the law specifically mandates that the Thruway 15 has the authority to impose fees and also to 16 engage in a bond covenant, and so since we 17 already have that bond covenant, to lose $12.5 18 million a year -- or perhaps Senator Holland has 19 a better assessment of how much money it is - 20 would seem to be inappropriate right now given 21 the budget crisis that we have in this state. 22 What I think is particularly 23 interesting about this is that yesterday Senator 6539 1 Bruno, in encouraging us to pass the pesticide 2 registry bill, told us that one of the reasons 3 that the bill was out here is because the 4 Governor said he would veto the Assembly bill. 5 Well, interestingly enough, the Governor has 6 pretty much made it clearly that he would veto 7 this Assembly bill. So I don't even know why 8 we're debating it here today since it's not 9 really going to get anywhere, but that's just a 10 thought because actually, I think we should 11 debate any bill that the sponsor feels is 12 important, and I'm sure the residents of Spring 13 Valley, through Senator Holland, do think that 14 there is an undue burden placed on them and 15 perhaps they are right, but it is something that 16 probably in each of our districts and in each of 17 the communities that we represent, there is some 18 situation where there's an encumbrance upon us 19 as state residents. 20 Very similarly, there are a 21 number of other tolls on the Thruway where the 22 individuals in that particular area are 23 particularly discomforted by its existence. 6540 1 Unfortunately, this is a contribution I think 2 that we all make as state residents. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I just want to 6 comment on the constitutional question that the 7 Senator brought up -- the two Senators brought 8 up. 9 First of all, if the Legislature 10 created the Thruway Authority, they can end it 11 or change the Thruway Authority and secondly, if 12 you talk about the bondholder's rights, we have 13 recently put on them additional roadways in I-84 14 and the Cross Westchester highway, so we have 15 changed what the bondholders are responsible for 16 already. So I think that really throws out the 17 question. 18 Last comment on the 19 constitutionality, if, in fact, it is 20 unconstitutional, which I do not absolutely 21 believe, it wouldn't be up to us to decide 22 that. It would be up to the courts to decide. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6541 1 Paterson, you wish to speak on the bill? 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: If -- it might 7 be something that the courts would determine, 8 but since the language in Public Authorities Law 9 373 is so specific, I don't know that it's 10 prudent for us as legislators to just unduly 11 burden the courts with reviewing something that 12 is almost prima facie just in its writing. 13 However, what I was suggesting - 14 because I'm not trying to suggest to Senator 15 Holland that he has no remedy. I'm just kind of 16 saying that it would be better to change that 17 law because it's sweeping and there are other 18 statutes that are somewhat -- that are also 19 related, and I think we would have to go in that 20 direction, if that's what he was willing to 21 accomplish, and perhaps so because I recognize 22 what the residents in Spring Valley are 23 indicating to us through the attempt to pass 6542 1 this legislation. 2 I'm just continuing to maintain 3 that it is very analogous to situations that 4 occur in other areas along the Thruway which was 5 the actual underpinning to the concept of the 6 Public Authorities Law and its grant to the 7 Thruway Authority in the first place. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 16 the results when tabulated. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Just very 21 briefly. I think Senator Holland and I are 22 allowed to have an intellectual disagreement. I 23 think there are a lot of times when 6543 1 constitutional questions come up and we really 2 don't know the answer. 3 On the other hand, Senator 4 Holland, I think we, along with everybody else, 5 raise our hand in the beginning of the session 6 and swear to uphold the Constitution, and if 7 something is clearly unconstitutional, I think 8 it's a violation of the oath as I interpret it. 9 Lastly, let me say that Senator 10 Goodman for years, I believe, had fought for a 11 certain piece of legislation and it was finally 12 determined that the idea might be good but it 13 was not constitutional to do, and he changed it 14 to an amendment to our Constitution. Maybe 15 that's just something you may want to do. 16 This house will pass almost 17 anything you want in order to -- in order to 18 help you as one of the members of that side, and 19 we could be passing something that perhaps would 20 alter the Constitution and make it possible to 21 do, but I think that -- God bless you -- I think 22 that saying that when it's convenient for us - 23 and I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing 6544 1 -- to ignore the constitutionality because it's 2 for the courts, I think there are times when 3 those issues are fairly represented in that way. 4 I do not think this is one of 5 them. I do not think we have the right to do 6 this, and I vote in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1234 are 12 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gold, Kruger, 13 Leichter, Markowitz, Nanula, Oppenheimer, 14 Paterson, Santiago and Seabrook. Ayes 45, nays 15 11. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR GOLD: If I could have 20 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 21 on Calendar Number 1189, by Senator Marcellino, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6545 1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Gold 2 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 3 Number 1189. 4 Senator Larkin. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 6 may we now return to reports of standing 7 committees. I believe there's a report of the 8 Rules Committee at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We can 10 and there is a report at the desk. I'll ask the 11 Secretary to read the Rules report. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 14 following bills: 15 Senate Print 766, by Senator 16 Present, an act to amend the Tax Law, in 17 relation to exemption; 18 906, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 19 amend the Tax Law; 20 993-A, an act to amend the Tax 21 Law, in relation to penalties; 22 1915-C, by Senator Waldon, an act 23 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 6546 1 establishing; 2 2402, by Senator Johnson, an act 3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 4 to granting; 5 3125-A, by Senator Marchi, an act 6 to allow Michael Acito to receive credit; 7 3203, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 8 in relation to authorizing the town of East 9 Bloomfield; 10 3812, by Senator Volker, an act 11 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 12 3948, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 13 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 14 Executive Law; 15 4455, by Senator Hoblock, an act 16 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 17 display of the prisoner of war and missing in 18 action flag; 19 5321-A, by Senator Maziarz, an 20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 21 relation to period; 22 5493, by Senator Santiago, an act 23 to amend the Banking Law, in relation to 6547 1 authorizing; 2 5500-A, by Senator Volker, an act 3 to enact the Criminal Justice Omnibus Act of 4 1996; 5 5761-C, by Senator Stafford, an 6 act to authorize the town of Ticonderoga; 7 5795, by Senator Hoblock, an act 8 to amend Chapter 553 of the Laws of 1994; 9 5798-A, by Senator Hoblock, an 10 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 11 tuition awards; 12 6157, by Senator Holland, an act 13 allowing the village of Piermont, Rockland 14 County to establish; 15 6334, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 16 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to 17 regulation; 18 6535, by Senator Volker, an act 19 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 20 6637, by Senator Stafford, an act 21 to continue the existence of the Hamilton County 22 Industrial Development Agency; 23 7010, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 6548 1 amend the General City Law, in relation to 2 excluding; 3 7090-A, by Senator Larkin, an act 4 to establish the library district in the city of 5 Kingston; 6 7206-A, by Senator Cook, an act 7 to create the Wallkill Public Library District; 8 7301, by Senator Sears, an act to 9 authorize the county of Lewis; 10 7302, by Senator Sears, an act 11 authorizing the county of Lewis to issue serial 12 bonds; 13 7511, by Senator Bruno, an act 14 amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation to 15 the membership of the board of directors; 16 And 7513, by Senator Larkin, an 17 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 18 exemption. All bills ordered directly for third 19 reading. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Larkin. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: I move we accept 23 the Rules -- report of the Rules Committee. 6549 1 Is there any housekeeping? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 motion is to accept the Rules report. All those 4 in favor signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye".) 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The report is accepted. All 9 bills are directed directly to third reading. 10 Return to motions and resolution. 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 On behalf of Senator Skelos, on 15 page 14, I offer the following amendments to 16 Calendar Number 579, Senate Print Number 5730-B 17 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 18 Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 amendments to Calendar Number 579 are received 21 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 22 the Third Reading Calendar. 23 Senator Larkin. 6550 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 2 we'll now stand at ease. We'll return to 3 session at 6:00 p.m. tonight, and we'd like to 4 remind everybody that they should make sure that 5 their offices know where they're at in case we 6 get an earlier wakeup call. We'll now stand at 7 ease 'til 6:00 p.m. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senate will stand at ease until 6:00 this 10 evening. 11 Before we do that, the Chair 12 recognizes Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 14 there will be a meeting of the Minority in the 15 Minority Conference Room at 1:25 p.m. -- that's 16 1:25 p.m. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 18 will be a meeting of the Minority Conference in 19 the Minority Conference Room, I believe that's 20 314, in one half hour, 30 minutes from now at 21 1:25. A meeting of the Minority Conference in 22 the Minority Conference Room at 1:25. 23 The Chair recognizes Senator 6551 1 Levy. 2 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I was out of the chamber conducting 4 a committee meeting. I'd like unanimous consent 5 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 1189, 6 Senate 7133. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 8 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Levy 9 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 10 Number 1189. 11 Senator Smith, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I 13 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 14 negative on Calendar Number 347, 1189 -- they're 15 still trying to find the other one. I was in 16 Transportation, so I was in -- and Number 1234. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, Senator Smith will be recorded in the 19 negative on those three bills. 20 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 347, 1189 22 and 1234. 23 Any other Senators wishing to 6552 1 register a vote, change a vote at this time? 2 (There was no response.) 3 If not, the Senate will stand at 4 ease until 6:00 a.m. All members are reminded 5 -- excuse me -- 6:00 p.m. -- 6:00 p.m. All 6 members are reminded to stay in touch with their 7 offices subject to the call or the return to 8 this chamber prior to that by the Majority 9 Leader. The Senate stands at ease. 10 (Whereupon, at 2:00 p.m., the 11 Senate stood at ease, until 7:17 p.m.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT PADAVAN: Without 13 objection, the Senate will stand adjourned until 14 tomorrow, Wednesday, June 5, at 10:00 a.m. 15 (Whereupon at 7:18 p.m., the 16 Senate adjourned.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23