Wednesday, June 12, 1996

7451 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 12, 1996 11 10:04 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 7452 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. The members will 4 find their places; staff will find their 5 places. Ask everybody in the chamber to rise 6 and join with me in saying the Pledge of 7 Allegiance, and remain standing for the 8 invocation. 9 (The assemblage repeated the 10 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 11 We're very pleased to be joined 12 by the Reverend Walter Kortrey of the Emanuel 13 Evangelical Lutheran Church in Pleasantville for 14 the invocation. Reverend Kortrey. 15 REVEREND WALTER KORTREY: Let us 16 pray. 17 Almighty God, we come together on 18 this muggy morning for a busy working day and 19 we'd rather be somewhere else, to tell You the 20 truth. We pray for patience and endurance as we 21 turn our minds and hearts to the work of govern 22 ing for tomorrow, and its needs we do pray. 23 That is why we are here, that through the work 7453 1 we do in this chamber, the people in this state 2 may enjoy many tomorrows free from so many 3 fears, with equal opportunity to make a life for 4 themselves and for their children. 5 O Lord, give us the insight and 6 the foresight needed to accomplish good things 7 for all our people. Bless the Senators and 8 their families, those within the sound of my 9 voice, those who will be here later this day. 10 Where there is sickness, come with healing; 11 where there is strife and discord, come with 12 reconciliation. Let grace abound in every 13 heart, in every home, in the name of Christ. 14 Amen. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 16 of the Journal. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Tuesday, June 11th. The Senate met pursuant to 19 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, June 10th, 20 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 21 adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 23 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 7454 1 read. 2 Presentation of petitions. 3 Messages from the Assembly. 4 Messages from the Governor. 5 Reports of standing committees. 6 Reports of select committees. 7 Communications and reports from 8 state officers. 9 Motions and resolutions. 10 The Chair recognizes Senator 11 Farley. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 13 on behalf of Senator Wright, on page 27, I offer 14 the following amendments to Calendar 1005, 15 Senate Print 6629-A, and I ask that that bill 16 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Amendments to Calendar Number 1005 are received 19 and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the 20 Third Reading Calendar. 21 Senator Farley. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 23 Senator Volker, I wish to call up his bill, 7455 1 Senate Print 1113, recalled from the Assembly 2 which is now at the desk. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the title. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Volker, Senate Print 1113, an act to amend the 7 Penal Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 11 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 12 bill passed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 14 to reconsider the vote by which the bill 15 passed. Secretary will call the roll on 16 reconsideration. 17 (The Secretary called the roll on 18 reconsideration. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Farley. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 23 now offer the following amendments. 7456 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 2 Amendments are received and adopted. 3 Senator Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of the 5 Judiciary Committee, Mr. President, I wish to 6 call up Senate Print 3775-B which is recalled 7 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Lack, 11 Senate Print 3775-B, an act to amend the Family 12 Court Act. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Farley. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 16 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 17 bill passed. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will call the roll on reconsideration. 20 (The Secretary called the roll on 21 reconsideration. ) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Farley. 7457 1 SENATOR FARLEY: I now offer the 2 following amendments. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Amendments are received and adopted. 5 Senator Bruno, we have some 6 substitutions, but before that, Senator Trunzo. 7 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President, 8 if you would place a sponsor's star on Calendar 9 Number 1460. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 11 Number 1416 is starred - 12 SENATOR TRUNZO: 6-0. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6-0, 14 Calendar Number 1460 is starred at the request 15 of the sponsor. 16 Secretary will read the 17 substitutions. Senator Bruno? 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Please make the 19 substitutions. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 43, 23 Senator Maltese moves to discharge from the 7458 1 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 5861-A 2 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 3 6135-A. 4 On page 44, Senator Trunzo moves 5 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 6 Assembly Bill Number 9326-A and substitute it 7 for the identical Senate Bill 6360-A. 8 On page 44, Senator Saland moves 9 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 10 Assembly Bill 9809 and substitute it for the 11 identical Senate Bill 6473-A. 12 On page 44, Senator Holland moves 13 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 14 Assembly Bill 10561, and substitute it for the 15 identical Senate Bill 6498. 16 On page 45, Senator Stafford 17 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 18 Assembly Bill 8432-A, and substitute it for the 19 identical Senate Bill 6814-A. 20 On page 46, Senator Stafford 21 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance 22 Assembly Bill 6763-A, and substitute it for the 23 identical Senate Bill 4699-A. 7459 1 On page 46, Senator Volker moves 2 to discharge from the Committee on Codes 3 Assembly Bill 10407 and substitute it for the 4 identical Senate Bill 6523. 5 On page 48, Senator Cook moves to 6 discharge from the Committee on Commerce 7 Assembly Bill 9788 and substitute it for the 8 identical Senate Bill 7204. 9 On page 50, Senator Seward moves 10 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 11 Assembly Bill 5986 and substitute it for the 12 identical Senate Bill 7664. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 14 Substitutions are ordered. 15 Senator Bruno. 16 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 17 believe there are several resolutions at the 18 desk. I would ask that the titles be read, that 19 we move for their immediate adoption, and I 20 believe the first one is a resolution by Senator 21 Rath. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There are 23 four resolutions. We can take them all at one 7460 1 time if that would be fine. Secretary will read 2 the titles for the four resolutions. 3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Rath, 4 Legislative Resolution honoring Joseph J. Mesi 5 chosen as the alternate boxer on the U. S. 6 Olympic Boxing Team in the 1996 Summer Olympic 7 Games. 8 By Senator Bruno, Legislative 9 Resolution commending Edward R. Johnson, 10 Chairperson for the Committee on Special 11 Education, for the Lansingburgh Central School 12 District upon the occasion of his retirement, to 13 be commemorated on Friday, June the 14th, 1996. 14 By Senator Bruno, Legislative 15 Resolution commending Sergeant Richard Lawrence 16 of the office of Sheriff, county of Saratoga, 17 upon the occasion of his designation for special 18 honor on Thursday, June 13th, 1996. 19 By Senator Goodman, Legislative 20 Resolution honoring the life and accomplishments 21 of Frances Lehman Loeb. 22 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7461 1 Goodman. 2 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 3 I'd like to say a brief word with respect to the 4 last of the resolutions that were read. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Goodman, on the resolution. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 8 New York City and New York State have lost one 9 of their leading citizens, with the death of 10 Frances Lehman Loeb at the age of 89. She was 11 an extraordinary woman, and it's noteworthy that 12 one of her deepest interests among her many 13 philanthropies was the well-being of the 14 diplomats of the United Nations and the 15 Consulate Corps in New York City. 16 Frances Lehman Loeb was a person 17 of great compassion and concern for all of her 18 fellow citizens, but she served a particularly 19 important role in assisting new diplomats to the 20 United States and to the United Nations in 21 adjusting to their environment in the city of 22 New York. She rendered many services to them 23 with great courtesy and warmth, and she will be 7462 1 long remembered for her contributions to such 2 great projects as the Frances Lehman Loeb Boat 3 house, the Loeb Drama Center at Harvard, to 4 which she and her husband contributed in 5 substantial amounts. The two of them gave $70 6 million to Harvard University for their 7 advancement of education in many specific ways, 8 and in short, Mr. President, this was a lady who 9 had left a great humanitarian imprint upon 10 society and who will be long remembered by a 11 grateful city, state and nation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Rath, on the resolution. 14 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I'd 15 like to say a word about the first of the 16 privileged resolutions, one that I bring to the 17 attention of this house in regards to a 18 gentleman called "Baby Joe" Mesi, who is going 19 to be representing us at the Olympics and he is 20 a three-times champion of the New York State 21 Golden Gloves Tournament and is second in the 22 United States in the Amateur Boxing 23 Association. 7463 1 I think it's noteworthy that he 2 is from New York State and, of course, from my 3 district, and I'm sure he'll be really happy 4 that we have noted that he's going. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Does any 7 other Senator wish to speak on any of the four 8 resolutions? Hearing none, the question is on 9 the resolutions. All those in favor signify by 10 saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed nay. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 The resolutions are adopted. 15 Senator Bruno, that brings us to 16 the calendar. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 18 can we at this time take up the non 19 controversial calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the non-controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 23 Calendar Number 271, by Senator Levy, Senate 7464 1 Print Number 5960, an act to amend the Vehicle 2 and Traffic Law, in relation to the suspension 3 of driver's licenses. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 409, by member of the Assembly Murtaugh, 10 Assembly Bill 9125, an act to amend the Mental 11 Hygiene Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 15 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 558, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 32-B, an 7465 1 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 2 increasing indebtedness of the town of Ramapo, 3 Rockland County. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 5 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 6 read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 580, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 6097-A, 17 an act to amend the General Business Law, in 18 relation to authorizing sale of certain gas 19 appliances. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 7466 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 615, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3580-A, an 9 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 10 in relation to confidential communications. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay that 12 aside, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 782, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6538-B, an 17 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the 18 collection by public utility. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on December 1st. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7467 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 785, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6590, an 8 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 9 distribution of the additional mortgage 10 recording tax. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 12 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 841, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 7217, an 7468 1 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 2 relation to county traffic safety boards. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 900, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5019-A, an 15 act to amend the Real Property Actions and 16 Proceedings Law. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 906, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5930, an 22 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 23 co-payment of fees for medical services. 7469 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 921, by member of the Assembly Sullivan, 13 Assembly Print 6794, an act to amend the 14 Education Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7470 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 930, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6701, an 4 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 5 Nassau. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 942, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7364-A, an 18 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 19 Real Property Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7471 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 944, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7367-B, an 9 act to amend Chapter 118 of the Laws of 1893. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 964, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7099-A, an 22 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 23 adjusting the minimum number of directors. 7472 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1002, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5776 13 C, an act to amend the Executive Law, in 14 relation to emergency medical services. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will - 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1046, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7370-A, an 22 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to build 23 ing permits. 7473 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect in 180 days. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1079, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6572, an 13 act authorizing the Commissioner of General 14 Services to convey certain land in Suffolk 15 County. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1088, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 575, an 7474 1 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 2 administrative provisions. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1104, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6564-A, an 8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 tampering with a sports contest. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 13 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1123, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6917, an 23 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 7475 1 relation to access to information. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 -- excuse me. The bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1173, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4060, an 14 acted to amend the Correction Law and the 15 Criminal Procedure Law. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 21 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 22 in relation to the siting of industrial 23 hazardous waste facilities. 7476 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1252, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5500-A, an 6 act to enact the Criminal Justice - 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1279, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 4145-D, 12 an act authorizing the establishment of the 13 Oneida Public Library District. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7477 1 THE SECRETARY: 1280, by Senator 2 Kuhl, Senate Print 3356, an act to amend the 3 Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation to 4 exempting any child under the age of 14. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1326, by Senator Babbush, Senate Print 5898, an 10 act authorizing the city of New York to reconvey 11 its interest in certain real property. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 13 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 14 read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7478 1 1376, by Senator Espada, Senate Print 7491-A, an 2 act to authorize the city of New York to 3 discontinue the use of park land. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 5 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 6 read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1392, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7376-B, an 17 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 18 relation to bell jar game regulation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 22 act shall take effect in 180 days. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7479 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results when tabulated. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41 -- ayes 6 41, nays 1, Senator Tully recorded in the 7 negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1397, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 7535, an 12 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 13 relation to waivers. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay that aside 15 for amendment. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside for amendments. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1399, by Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 7631, an 20 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 21 Family Court Act. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7480 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 2 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1407, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3982-A, 12 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 13 relation to authorizing a residential parking 14 system. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 16 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 17 read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 7481 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1409, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5484-B, 5 an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 6 authorizing the Department of Transportation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect April 1st, 1997. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1411, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print Number 19 5996-A, an act to amend Chapter 530 of the Laws 20 of 1988. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7482 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1412, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6126-A, an 10 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 11 in relation to multi-loading firearm. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1413, substituted earlier today, by member of 7483 1 the Assembly Luster, Assembly Print **5861A** 2 (s/b 5863A), an act to amend the Criminal 3 Procedure Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1414, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6195, an act 16 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 17 relation to making technical corrections. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1415, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6250-A, an 22 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 23 to certain telephone company actions. 7484 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1417, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 6330, an 13 act to provide additional member funded service 14 credit. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7485 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1418, substituted earlier today, by member of 4 the Assembly Crowley, Assembly Print 9326-A, an 5 act to amend the General Municipal Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will call the roll. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect July 1st, 1996. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1419, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 6364-A, 18 an act to amend Chapter 534 of the Laws of 1993. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7486 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1420, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6413, an act 8 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 9 relation to eliminating the maximum gross 10 weight. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1421, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6418-A, an 23 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 7487 1 state highways in Steuben County. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 3 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 4 read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect on the 1st day of April. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1422, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6419-A, an 15 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 16 state highways in Ontario County. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 18 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 19 read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect September 1st. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7488 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1424, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 7 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 10561, an act 8 to amend Chapter 779 of the Laws of 1986. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1425, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6517, an 21 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 22 relation to bench warrants. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7489 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect in 90 days. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1426, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6526, an 12 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 13 relation to conferring peace officer status. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7490 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1427, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6739-A, an 3 act authorizing conveyance of certain state 4 lands. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1428, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6740-A, an 17 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 18 relation to use of dealer and transporter number 19 plates. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7491 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1429, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6741-A, an 9 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 10 relation to authorizing a residential parking 11 system. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 13 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 14 read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7492 1 1430, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6780, an 2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 3 profits from a crime. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1431, substituted earlier today, by member of 16 the Assembly Bragman, Assembly Print 8432-A, an 17 act to amend the State Law and the State Finance 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7493 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1432, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7046-A, an 8 act authorizing the town of Islip to lease 9 certain lands. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 11 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 12 read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1433, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7057-A, 23 an act to amend Chapter 741 of the Laws of 7494 1 1985. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1434, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 7073-B, an 7 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 8 in relation to taking of certain deer. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1435, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 7086-A, an 21 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 22 relation to tax base sharing in Montgomery 23 County. 7495 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1436, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 303, an 13 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 14 increasing the criminal penalty. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 19 November. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 7496 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1438, substituted earlier today, by member of 5 the Assembly Farrell, Assembly Print 6763-A, an 6 act to amend the State Finance Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1439, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5801, an 19 act to authorize and direct the Education 20 Department. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 22 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7497 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1440, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6365, an 11 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 12 relation to Industrial Development Agencies. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays 21 one, Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7498 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1441, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6395, an 3 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 4 multiple employer welfare arrangements. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1442, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6421, an 10 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 11 information regarding temporary release 12 programs. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7499 1 1443, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 2 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 10407, an act 3 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 1st day of January. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1444, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6614, an 16 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 17 the temporary release of inmates. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect on the 13th day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7500 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 6 1445, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6619, an 7 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 8 inmate's possession of unauthorized money. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1446, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 6657, an 21 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 22 repeal of Section 633 of such law relating 23 thereto. 7501 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1447, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 6784, an 13 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the 14 unemployment insurance law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 22. This 18 act shall take effect September 1st. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7502 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1449, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6923-A, an 4 act to amend the New York State Medical Care 5 Facilities Finance Agency Act. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 9 act to take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1450, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7038, an 18 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 19 Law, in relation to benefit calculations. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7503 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1452, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7123, 9 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1453, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7136, an 22 act to amend the Local Finance Law, in relation 23 to bonds and notes of the city of Yonkers. 7504 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 2 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 3 read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1455, substituted earlier today, by member of 14 the Assembly Gromack, Assembly Print 9788, an 15 act to amend the Economic Development Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 7505 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1456, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 7230, an 5 act to create the Brookhaven National 6 Laboratory. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 10 act shall take effect on the 1st day of October. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1457, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7244. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1458, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7277-A, 7506 1 an act to amend the State Administrative 2 Procedure Act. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1459, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 7356, 15 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 16 Law, in relation to issuing permits. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7507 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1461, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7385-A, an 6 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 7 Law, in relation to increasing the maximum 8 amount. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1462, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7386-A, an 21 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 22 relation to payment of certain accidental death 23 benefits. 7508 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1463, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7437, an 13 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in 14 relation to granting civil immunity. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7509 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1464, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7485-B, 4 an act in relation to authorizing the town of 5 Willsboro, Essex County. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 7 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 8 read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1465, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7512, an 19 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 20 standardizing and improving state agency permit 21 applications. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7510 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 365th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1466, by Senator Cook, Senate Print - 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1467, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7552, an 16 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 17 relation to amounts for which the state and 18 social service districts are responsible through 19 1998. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7511 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1468, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 9 Print 7553, an act to amend the Public Health 10 Law and Insurance Law, in relation to regulating 11 the delivery of managed health care. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 21. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1469, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 7574, an 7512 1 act to amend the County Law, in relation to the 2 licensing of master electricians in Westchester 3 County. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 5 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 6 read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1470, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 7583, an 17 act in relation to allowing Millicent Browne to 18 be reclassified as a Tier I member. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7513 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1471, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7590, an 8 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 9 in relation to the limitation of malpractice 10 damages. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 19 the results when tabulated. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46, nays 21 one, Senator DeFrancisco recorded in the 22 negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7514 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1472, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 7592, an 4 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 5 to removal of telephonic blocks. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1473, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7593, an 18 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in 19 relation to business combinations. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 23 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 7515 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1474, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7634, an 9 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 10 permitting parents of minors. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect in 30 days. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1475, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 7654, an 23 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 7516 1 increasing income eligibility levels. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1476, substituted earlier today, by member of 14 the Assembly Luster, Assembly Print 5986, an act 15 to amend the Local Finance Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7517 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1477, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7690, an 5 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 6 establishing a homepage on the internet. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: And Calendar 18 Number 1478, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 19 7701, an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation 20 to simplifying filing and payment. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 7518 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Bruno, that completes the 9 non-controversial calendar. 10 Senator Nozzolio had a motion, I 11 believe, just before we move on, if that's O.K. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. Can we take 13 that motion and then maybe you might recognize 14 me, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 Mr. President, I move to 20 reconsider the vote by which Calendar Number 21 1407 was taken. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 23 to reconsider the vote by which Calendar 1407 7519 1 was taken. Secretary will call the roll on 2 reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Nozzolio, Senate Print 3982-A, an act to amend 7 the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Place a 9 sponsor's star on said bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll on 13 reconsideration.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside, and the bill will be starred at the 17 request of the sponsor. 18 Senator Mendez, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, I 20 would like to announce that there will be a 21 conference -- a Minority conference at 12:30 22 today in Room 314. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7520 1 will be a Minority conference at 12:30 today in 2 the Minority Conference Room, a Minority 3 conference, Minority Conference Room, at 12:30 4 today. 5 Senator Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, we 7 were going to have a Majority conference at 8 12:00 today, to 12:45, and we were hopeful that 9 we have might be conferencing together, and I 10 only announce that so that people might ponder 11 what they would like to have happen so that we 12 don't extend this day any longer than we have 13 to. 14 But, Mr. President, before we 15 move on to the controversial calendar, just want 16 to acknowledge to the members of this chamber 17 and others that 60 years ago this very day, 18 Senator Joseph Holland was born and, as a 19 consequence -- as a consequence, the people in 20 his district now benefit from his experience and 21 his dedicated service, as well as all of the 22 people of this state will that he serves with 23 great, great distinction. So we in this 7521 1 chamber, and I'm sure you join me in recogniz 2 ing what an important occasion today is, not 3 just to the people of his district, but the 4 people of this state, for the leadership that he 5 displays here in this chamber throughout his 6 district and throughout this state and, Mr. 7 President, I know that people are questioning 8 whether it possibly could have been 60 years 9 ago -- doesn't look a day over 39 to me. But 10 having said all of that, Mr. President, we want 11 to wish him a very happy day and we are going to 12 commemorate the great event to take place in 13 this chamber today, Senator Joseph Holland's 14 birthday. 15 (Applause) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: With that, Mr. 19 President, it's probably appropriate to move the 20 controversial calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the controversial calendar beginning 23 with Calendar Number 271. 7522 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 6, 2 Calendar Number 271, by Senator Levy, Senate 3 Print 5960, an act to amend the Vehicle and 4 Traffic Law, in relation to the suspension of a 5 driver's license. 6 SENATOR LEVY: Might I ask who 7 asked for the explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Levy, Senator Paterson has. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Paterson, 11 as I'm sure you recall, we passed what is 12 colloquially known as "zero-two" legislation 13 since the 1994 session, and what this bill seeks 14 to accomplish is to deter the operation of a 15 motor vehicle after having been -- after having 16 consuming alcohol by young people 16, 17, 18, 19 17 and 20 who have driver's licenses. 18 Thirty-two other states, plus the 19 District of Columbia including our neighbors in 20 New Jersey and Massachusetts, have enacted .02 21 laws or even zero tolerance laws to deal with 22 the problem of young people in those age 23 categories operating motor vehicles after they 7523 1 have consumed alcohol, and the statistics are 2 really basically the same as in each of those 3 other years. That age category is 7 percent of 4 the drivers that have been involved in 15 5 percent, or a hundred percent-plus increase in 6 the percentage of fatal motor vehicle accidents 7 and 50 percent of those drivers in those age 8 categories 16 through 20, 50 percent of those 9 drivers who were killed had consumed alcohol. 10 Now, there's an additional reason 11 to do this legislation beyond the reasons that 12 moved us to pass these bills in the past and 13 that is that our friends in Washington in the 14 Congress, plus the President of the United 15 States have mandated that every state in the 16 nation enact this type of legislation with the 17 penalty of the loss in the first year of $22 18 million dollars in highway aid. 19 Under this bill, a person 16 20 through and including 20 would not be violative 21 of any criminal statute. It would be a 22 violation of law, and it would be handled 23 administratively by the Department of Motor 7524 1 Vehicles. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 5 I want to commence by advising you and the 6 Majority Leader, Senator Bruno, that we actually 7 are more synchronized than you may think. The 8 reason that we called a Minority conference for 9 12:30 is that it will only take 15 minutes and 10 since the Majority conference is going to be 11 from 12:00 o'clock to 12:45, then we believe 12 that the conferences will end simultaneously and 13 we will be right back here at 12:45 to take up 14 the business of the state and any other concern 15 that we can accomplish here today. 16 So we are -- we are in sync', and 17 we actually measured our conference by the 18 Majority Conference. Probably because of the 19 ephemeral nature of our leader's communication, 20 we only need 15 minutes. 21 Having settled that, if Senator 22 Levy would yield for a question? 23 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 7525 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 2 do you yield? 3 SENATOR LEVY: Certainly. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 yields. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm a 7 little concerned about the false positive tests 8 in this particular situation, as you know .02 9 being about one-fifth of the standard that would 10 actually maintain a level that would be 11 considered to be an intoxication level when 12 operating a motor vehicle. So between .02 and 13 a .06, this is a very, I won't call it a 14 scintilla but it's hardly a representative 15 standard of alcohol. It might be achieved 16 through the use of mouthwash or some cold 17 medicines, and do you think that we have set the 18 right numerical coefficient to the legislation 19 that you're approaching when we make the 20 standard that low? 21 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Senator 22 Paterson. As -- remember, we discussed this 23 point last year when we had the bill before us. 7526 1 Number one, this bill is actively supported by 2 the New York State Department of State Police. 3 They tell us that -- that certainly the 4 instances, the chemical tests that they utilize 5 to detect the presence of alcohol certainly 6 could do zero -- zero BAC let alone .02, but 7 just to be sure we made the standard .02, not 8 zero like other states. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 10 President, and thank Senator Levy. If the 11 Senator will continue to yield. 12 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, would 14 you draw the distinction or give me what you 15 would consider to be the corroborating data that 16 would demonstrate why you wish to, under this 17 legislation, why you list -- choose to restrict 18 those who are between 18 and 21 when actually 19 individuals over 21 might have the same blood to 20 alcohol level and not incur this penalty? Are 21 the incidents of vehicular accident or reckless 22 endangerment here? Have the statistics shown 23 greater fatalities or greater injuries and 7527 1 particularly if you would comment on the issue 2 of while it may be illegal to purchase alcohol 3 when you are under 21, it might -- there may not 4 be a legal standard for actually consuming it on 5 private property in a private setting. 6 SENATOR LEVY: Well, Senator, you 7 really -- in posing the question, you've 8 answered -- answered the question as it relates 9 to the proof of purchase law in the state of New 10 York, and I have to say to you that if we -- if 11 we realistically, or any other state 12 realistically could go beyond 21 with .02, 13 certainly that would be a positive action beyond 14 the age of 20 years for people who consume 15 alcohol and operate a motor vehicle to try to 16 cut down on the number of deaths that result 17 from the combination of driving a motor vehicle 18 and -- and using alcohol or alcoholic - 19 alcoholic beverages. 20 But, Senator, that -- even though 21 we are going to have a bill by Senator Wright 22 and myself and others, a Governor's program bill 23 before us before this session is over reducing 7528 1 the BAC under the terms of that legislative 2 proposal from .10 to .08, realistically this 3 piece of legislation we put together was put 4 together to deal with a high risk type of 5 operator and the statistics that I outlined when 6 you asked for an explanation. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 If the Senator would yield for - 12 simply yield for -- for one more question. 13 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, certainly, 14 Senator. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: That being the 16 case, if an individual thought that there was 17 another reason why they were testing positive 18 other than alcohol level, what redress would 19 they have in a situation like that? 20 SENATOR LEVY: I don't understand 21 your question, Senator. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: If an 23 individual tested positive and is maintaining 7529 1 that they have not consumed any alcohol in the 2 fashion that would create that result, what 3 recourse would they have? 4 SENATOR LEVY: Well, as -- as you 5 know -- as you know, number one, number one, the 6 way of making a driving while impaired or a 7 drunk driving case out beyond a reasonable doubt 8 would permit the prosecutors who are bringing 9 that case not only to use chem' tests but they 10 could use the evidence prior to the widespread 11 use of chemical tests to prove intoxication by 12 physical observation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson, on the bill. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: I was 20 particularly impressed with Senator Levy's 21 alliteration of the situation in which 22 particularly drivers who are between the ages of 23 18 and 21 have not operated vehicles as maturely 7530 1 as we would like, and it's probably why we've 2 restricted the consumption of alcohol some years 3 ago and so the accompanying incumbrance upon 4 individuals to have a higher standard and be 5 scrupulously careful when operating a motor 6 vehicle is the value that I would assume we 7 should favor over the desire to be very careful 8 about testing and very careful about on the 9 basis of age discriminating, not discriminating 10 against people but discriminating in the fashion 11 with which we punish people for violations and 12 so, therefore, although it's -- there are issues 13 on both sides, it appears that the legislation 14 has some -- some merit to it and will probably 15 enure to the benefit of the same people who may 16 actually be taken off the road because of it. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 18 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 19 Senator Wright. 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 I wish to commend Senator Levy on 23 his effort to bring this legislation before our 7531 1 house. I think the issues are relatively clear 2 and you've heard them articulated this morning. 3 Legal age in New York State is 21. Below that 4 it is not only inappropriate but it's illegal to 5 be consuming alcohol and driving and consequent 6 ly should warrant a more severe penalty, but 7 more particularly all of us who are parents of 8 children know the behaviors that occur during 9 that -- that time of life, under 21, and 10 unfortunately those are formative years in terms 11 of patterns of behavior that we need to make 12 sure we're focused on, and by providing 13 legislation that makes it a non-criminal offense 14 but shows the importance that all of us bring to 15 this issue, we're showing our children what we 16 expect of their behavior as young adults. 17 I think that's an appropriate 18 message to be sending. The unfortunate reality 19 when one looks at the statistics in terms of 20 personal injury, in terms of fatality, those 21 numbers are statistically overwhelming for this 22 age group. 23 We're not only looking out for 7532 1 the interests of society but we're also looking 2 out for the interests of those individuals. I 3 again want to commend Senator Levy for his 4 efforts and encourage my colleagues to support 5 this legislation. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 10 President, and I'll be very brief. My only 11 sense of disappointment is that the best way 12 that you teach young people about drunk driving 13 is by social example and we really, in my 14 opinion, have not done enough in that area. 15 Senator DiCarlo and I have a 16 bill, but -- and Senator Levy and I have spoken 17 about this for years, but the bottom line is 18 that if we take the attitude that drunk drivers 19 are only the next door neighbor, the butcher, 20 the baker, the candlestick maker and they're not 21 really criminals, you get nowhere, and the only 22 way you're going to be able to do anything is 23 not worrying about the kids so much but you grab 7533 1 their parents who, after one or two or three or 2 four or five or six times, put them in jail. 3 It's three days, I don't care; make them lose 4 one day of work. Take away the car. 5 I mean that's what you're talking 6 about and this Legislature, in my opinion, has 7 never been ready to do that, because again, 8 you're talking about Harry and you're talking 9 about Shirley, and you're talking about every 10 day people and they didn't go out there with a 11 gun and they didn't use drugs, and it is wrong. 12 It is absolutely wrong. 13 If you're serious about drunk 14 driving, you have to start with adults who are 15 normally -- quotes/unquotes -- "decent" people 16 and who will not stay off the roads when they're 17 drunk, and you got to put them in jail. 18 I think it's amazing. We had 19 testimony at the Judiciary Committee meeting 20 yesterday by a very distinguished judge who said 21 it's absurd to take somebody who's a messenger 22 with a small amount of narcotics and put him in 23 jail for 15 years. On the other hand, we have 7534 1 people who go out and kill with cars and who 2 constantly drive when they're drunk and who are 3 real dangerous every single minute to society, 4 and we don't have the guts as a Legislature to 5 do something strong in that area. 6 Senator Levy, I'm going to 7 support the bill. I would support harsher bills 8 as I've just indicated. I'm proud that Senator 9 DiCarlo and I have been able to move something 10 out of this house, but you know, we all know 11 what the real answer is. It's a question of 12 whether we're ready to face up to it. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 16 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 DiCarlo to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 7535 1 President. 2 I voted without recommendation 3 when this bill came out of committee and I'm 4 going to vote no on this bill here today, and I 5 don't want it to be said that I'm soft on drunk 6 drivers because I'm not. I am, for the record, 7 the sponsor with Senator Gold on a piece of 8 legislation. I'm also the sponsor of the Deadly 9 Driver Reform Act which is the toughest drunk 10 driving bill in the United States of America. 11 I think we're missing -- we're 12 making a mistake here. We're punishing, as 13 Senator Gold said, not the real people who 14 should be punished, those people who are out 15 there killing people on our streets of New York 16 State. Let's pass a real drunk driving bill for 17 those who are drunk and out there on the roads 18 and driving. I don't want to pass and support a 19 piece of legislation that says when your college 20 kid comes home for Thanksgiving and he has one 21 glass of wine, one beer with the parents' 22 approval, that when they get in their car and 23 they drive back to school they're going to be 7536 1 penalized in this fashion. I think it's a 2 mistake. 3 I'm going to vote against the 4 bill, and I would urge that we finally get 5 serious with drunks and deadly drivers with real 6 legislation that means something to get the 7 killers off our streets. 8 I vote no. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 DeFrancisco to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Having 12 tried these cases as a prosecutor, I know that 13 there is a standard deviation within which 14 there's a question as to the reliability of a 15 test, and this test .02 is simply too low to 16 provide a reasonable basis to prosecute anybody, 17 whether it's an infraction or a criminal 18 penalty. 19 For that reason and for other 20 reasons, I'm going to vote against this. The 21 other reasons, I think, are even more 22 important. Statistics were shown in the course 23 of the debate how there are more accidents with 7537 1 young people but, on the other hand, if that was 2 our criteria and we're really honest about all 3 of this, there would be many, many more 4 accidents by people in an age category 65 and 5 over, but no one in this chamber would dare to 6 have a special rule for that special class of 7 citizens because their driving record is less 8 than satisfactory in relation to other age 9 groups, and I think we're picking on a small 10 group of individuals. A small group of 11 individuals who may violate the law are causing 12 us to pass a legislation branding all youths as 13 irresponsible, and I think that's wrong. I 14 really think that's wrong, so Senator DiCarlo 15 said, some -- I don't want to be interpreted as 16 being soft on DWI, I support every DWI 17 legislation, but to single out one class of 18 citizens, the class that I don't think from the 19 standpoint of it being a coincidence, are a 20 class that aren't very well represented at the 21 polls, I think is a poor example and I think 22 there's a standard that is much too low to 23 provide a basis for a penalty for this type of 7538 1 infraction. 2 So, for those reasons, I would 3 vote no. I will vote no on this particular 4 bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative. 7 Announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 271: Senator 10 DeFrancisco, Senator DiCarlo, Hoblock, and 11 Holland. Ayes 49, nays 4. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 The Secretary will continue to 15 call the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 615, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3580-A, an 18 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 19 in relation to confidential communications. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Volker. 7539 1 SENATOR VOLKER: I guess in a 2 sense this is deja vu all over again. This bill 3 that Assemblyman Weisenberg and I have sponsored 4 for some years which passed this house last 5 year, is before us again with some amendments. 6 In all candor, this bill did pass 7 this house last year with very few negative 8 votes if I'm not mistaken and was vetoed by the 9 Governor. It involves communications between 10 law enforcement officials, elected union 11 officials and individuals in a police union. 12 If you look at the bill, over the 13 last few years, it has been defined down to make 14 it very clear that this involves only law 15 enforcement officials and only police union and 16 it talks about the problem which former police 17 officers like myself and Harvey Weisenberg 18 realize and realized many years ago were, a 19 police officer, not necessarily by the way, and 20 I note that the opposition by the Conference of 21 Mayors talks about a crime and a lot -- often 22 it's not a crime at all. It may be some sort of 23 disciplinary process or something that has 7540 1 created a problem for the police officer, and he 2 goes and seeks assistance from an elected union 3 official whose job it is to give that person 4 advice and counsel and, by the way, if you look 5 at the bill, it -- when it defines where this 6 communication or privileged communication would 7 come in, it specifically talks about where a 8 police officer, official, receives a communica 9 tion from a member in the course of his official 10 duties, and it defines when this would occur. 11 It would only occur under very specified kinds 12 of situations. 13 Now, I'll be very honest with 14 you. The Conference of Mayors will always 15 oppose any bill that allows any kind of 16 privileged communication in a police department, 17 probably also I have suppose in the fire 18 department, because they will tell you that it 19 should be the subject of collective bargaining. 20 The problem is they will never agree to any kind 21 of privileged communication because the belief, 22 I think, by some of the -- by the leaders, is 23 that somehow it's something that they feel is 7541 1 not anything that should be allowed because, of 2 course, it could have potentially an impact on 3 some disciplinary proceeding. 4 Keep in mind that police officer 5 situations are somewhat different. They are 6 under very strict rules to start with, semi 7 military rules. These are not the kind of 8 proceedings that are done by an average ordinary 9 citizen. As I've said many times before, I 10 guess unless you are directly involved in these 11 kind of things, it is hard sometimes, I think, 12 to understand them, but what this is it's a 13 limited privilege so that the elected union 14 official who has been -- has been approached by 15 someone in his department, cannot in effect be 16 brought directly into the proceeding where his 17 involvement was to counsel and advise, and so 18 forth, a person who is potentially under some 19 disciplinary proceeding or, in fact, could be in 20 relation to a crime although, if you read the 21 bill, you will also see that if that person 22 advises about some outside problem or future 23 crime or anything of that nature, that is not 7542 1 privileged and that would still be able to be 2 reachable. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Excuse me, Mr. 6 President. 7 My colleagues, would the 8 gentleman yield to a question? 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 13 in your experience as a police officer and in 14 the regulations of the department within which 15 you served, was there any requirement that when 16 a superior officer questions a subordinate 17 officer, that failure to honestly and openly 18 respond to those questions might subject the 19 subordinate officer to penalties as severe as 20 suspension and even more severe as to loss of 21 job, just for failure in certain circumstances 22 to respond to direct questions from a superior 23 officer? 7543 1 SENATOR VOLKER: I think my 2 recollection, certainly it could be suspension. 3 I think probably dismissal might be a bit heavy 4 unless it -- unless it related directly to a 5 crime or something of that nature, because then, 6 of course, it would constitute insubordination, 7 I would suppose, but I would think certainly 8 suspension because, as you know, in a semi 9 military atmosphere, questions by a superior 10 officer have to be answered candidly, and the 11 lack of that can result in some very severe 12 penalties. 13 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 14 Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Volker, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 continues to yield. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 21 in your department, was there a regulation 22 similar to the one in my department whereby the 23 only time you could violate a direct order from 7544 1 a superior was when the integrity of the 2 department was on the line and it was clear 3 that, in the opinion of the subordinate officer, 4 that the director's order was wrongful and 5 unlawful? Was there anything similar in your 6 regulations to that? 7 SENATOR VOLKER: I would -- I 8 think -- my recollection is that, in addition to 9 that is where your personal safety, I suppose, 10 could be endangered and that you have some clear 11 and present information or it is reasonably - 12 could be reasonably assumed that to follow the 13 order could result in death or injury, but other 14 than that, I think you're -- you're probably 15 correct that it was pretty clear, although we 16 probably didn't have quite as formal a directive 17 as that, but I think that the record, I think, 18 would have shown that the -- you must follow the 19 directive unless there was something clearly in 20 violation of law and rule which would be for you 21 to do, or your own personal safety was 22 involved. 23 Other than that, you were 7545 1 mandated to follow it. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 3 gentleman continue to yield? 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 8 in instances where the "shoo-fly", you familiar 9 with that term? 10 SENATOR VOLKER: The what? 11 SENATOR WALDON: The term 12 "shoo-fly"? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Oh, yeah. 14 SENATOR WALDON: In instances 15 where the "shoo-fly" or internal affairs came 16 upon the scene, and let's create a hypothetical 17 for discussion and dialogue. There's no 18 criminality involved on behalf of the officer in 19 question, but he may have in the consideration 20 and considered opinion of his superiors, violat 21 ed a regulation of the department. When they 22 arrived on the scene, was it your experience 23 that, if they asked the question of the officer, 7546 1 he or she had to immediately answer, there was 2 not a time lag to consult with counsels or even 3 to call the union rep', commonly known as the 4 PBA rep', was that your experience? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah. We didn't 6 have any internal affairs people in place at the 7 time, but I think experience is that when 8 someone who is charged with checking it appeared 9 on the scene, you were mandated to answer 10 immediately. You didn't -- you're absolutely 11 right, you had no alternative to look for 12 counsel or a union official or whatever. 13 In fact, one of the things, 14 frankly, that I found was that the local 15 departments knew that I was -- had become a 16 lawyer while I was a police officer and I got a 17 lot of calls from -- got requests from various 18 police officers asking me questions. Very often 19 it was because they had received orders maybe 20 from a government official, shall we say, other 21 than a police officer to do something and asked 22 me what the repercussions were if they didn't - 23 didn't comply or whatever, and I think it's - 7547 1 what you're saying is that most of the time you 2 didn't have the -- the luxury of -- of being 3 able to do that sort of thing, and you're 4 absolutely right, if that person comes on the 5 scene and says to you, Answer this question, you 6 better answer it and you don't have any -- any 7 alternatives. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 9 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 continues to yield. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 14 in your many years of experience as a police 15 officer, did you find that within the people who 16 were part of your department, that there was a 17 feeling that they were different, and let me 18 explain to you what I mean by that. They worked 19 different hours than the normal working person. 20 They were under different stresses and strains 21 than the normal working person. Their 22 responsibilities were such that they might even 23 happen to have been required to arrest a 7548 1 neighbor in a given set of circumstances. So 2 there was an insular society, an insularity 3 among police officers which caused them 4 sometimes to even be ostracized by friends and 5 neighbors. Was that your experience? 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Absolutely, and 7 it's -- it's part of the -- unfortunately 8 sometimes part of the job, which I don't think 9 is well understood, but you're absolutely 10 right. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 12 gentleman yield again, Mr. President? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 continues to yield. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Was it your 17 experience -- I know it was mine -- was it your 18 experience, Senator Volker, that even within the 19 department people tended to stick with each 20 other, meaning those with the bureau would hang 21 with those in the bureau, the guys in EMS and 22 the women in EMS would kind of be friendlier 23 with each other than with other departments and 7549 1 almost no one wanted to socialize, at least in 2 my department with the "shoo-flies", the 3 internal affairs persons. 4 Was that your experience and, if 5 not, have you in your law enforcement travels 6 heard that such was the case, that - 7 SENATOR VOLKER: I think that's 8 pretty clear. 9 SENATOR WALDON: -- that they 10 were biased or bad people within the department? 11 SENATOR VOLKER: I don't know if 12 you could say they were bad people, but they 13 were looked at as people you had to be extremely 14 careful of, and the fear was that you would even 15 make some sort of unguarded statement that might 16 -- might create a potential problem for you or 17 for somebody in the department, because you're 18 absolutely right, it is a natural human kind of 19 thing, I think, under those circumstances to be 20 extremely cautious, and I think people did tend 21 to band together, and I think that's natural and 22 normal. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 7550 1 much, Senator Volker. 2 Mr. President, if I may, on the 3 bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Waldon, on the bill. 6 SENATOR WALDON: I think this is 7 a good proposal. My experience tells me from my 8 days in law enforcement that an officer in 9 jeopardy has little time, if any time at all, to 10 consult with someone, especially to make a known 11 call and get his attorney, even if it's a PBA 12 attorney, on the scene, and that despite the 13 desire to have a PBA attorney on the scene, 14 oftentimes the only one available is the PBA 15 rep' who may actually be in the same station 16 house and on duty at the same moment, and I 17 believe because of the pressures and strains on 18 police officers, they should not be given 19 anything less than a private citizen. 20 For example, if a private citizen 21 says, "I wish my attorney," we as law enforce 22 ment personnel knew that we had to stop what we 23 were doing and allow that attorney to respond, 7551 1 but it did not apply to police officers, because 2 if the superior officer said, "Answer me now," 3 and the officer said, "But I want my attorney," 4 he would say, "You are under suspension 5 immediately. Give up your revolver and your 6 shield." 7 Different standards; but I don't 8 think that in this state we should have a 9 different standard for those in law enforcement, 10 so I would support and do support this 11 legislation, this proposal, because it creates a 12 level playing field for police officers, and 13 it's interesting. When the criminals are 14 running amuck in our community, we say, Send for 15 the cops. When someone is sticking up the local 16 liquor stores, we say, Send for the cops. When 17 some woman is delivering a baby and not - 18 there's not enough time for the EMS or the 19 ambulance to get there, we say, Send for the 20 cops; but when the officer says, Send for my 21 attorney, we don't give him or her sufficient 22 time. 23 So I think we ought to do this 7552 1 thing. I think it's right. I think some day we 2 ought to recognize that law enforcement people 3 are good people, and they deserve a break today 4 and we're going to give them that break today 5 because I believe the wisdom of this house today 6 will pass this proposal. 7 I encourage my colleagues to join 8 Senator Volker and I in doing the right thing 9 today. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 11 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing 12 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 19 the results when tabulated. 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 615 - 22 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on just a 23 minute. Hold on. 7553 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 I understand that the city of New 7 York filed a memorandum on the original bill, 8 but if there's nothing on this which means to me 9 that, as happens so often, they're either lazy 10 or careless about legislation or maybe there's 11 been an improvement, so I'm going to vote for 12 the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative. 15 Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 615 are Senators 18 Goodman and Seabrook. Ayes 52, nays 2. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Secretary will continue to call 22 the controversial calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7554 1 900, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print Number 2 5019-A, an act to amend the Real Property 3 Actions and Proceedings Law, in relation to 4 landlord and tenant proceedings. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leibell an explanation of Senate 900 has been 8 asked for by the Acting Minority Leader, Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 The reason for this legislation 13 is to try and bring some fairness not only to 14 those who own property but to those who are 15 tenants in buildings. Court delays have cost 16 owners of rental property tens of millions of 17 dollars in legitimate owed rents plus millions 18 more in legal fees, and have contributed to the 19 problem of fraud. The current system has, 20 unfortunately, worked to exacerbate this. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leibell, excuse the interruption. Why don't we 23 wait until the conversations have concluded and 7555 1 those on the way out of the chamber have left, 2 those on the way in have completed their entry 3 and we have some quiet. 4 Senator Leibell. 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Senate 5019-A will require a 8 tenant, upon a second adjournment by the tenant 9 to the court, to deposit past due rents with the 10 court as well as future rents as they become due 11 until the court decides the case. As a result 12 of this, individuals will no longer clog the 13 courts with unnecessary delays simply to beat 14 the system. Owners who currently lose millions 15 of dollars in legitimate rents will now have 16 assurance that long delays will not result in 17 the loss of significant rental income, and the 18 viability of marginal buildings, where the loss 19 of even a portion of the associated rental 20 stream can be significant, will be improved to 21 the benefit of its occupants as well as its 22 owner. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7556 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 if Senator Leibell - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leibell, do you yield to a question from Senator 6 Paterson? 7 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes, Senator. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. That's a different way to get order 13 around here. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It sure 15 is, isn't it? 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President 17 and Senator Leibell, testifying in 1994, the 18 supervising judges of the New York City Civil 19 Court stated that there would be an estimation 20 of a need for 130 -- 130 additional clerks to 21 process all of these -- all of these rent 22 payments that would be made to the courts by 23 tenants after there had been a second 7557 1 adjournment of a court proceedings. 2 If this is even nearly correct 3 rather than investing in the monies to bring on 4 new clerks, my question to you, Senator Leibell, 5 is why didn't we invest in putting more judges 6 on those courts so we can speed up the case load 7 and there would be fewer adjournments? 8 SENATOR LEIBELL: Well, what 9 we're trying to do with this legislation, 10 Senator, is to prevent frivolous lawsuits and we 11 think that this will produce, contrary to the 12 judge you have cited -- and I have not seen his 13 comments, but we don't believe it will result in 14 an increased number of clerks being required or 15 judges. In fact, we think just the opposite. 16 It will reduce the case load. 17 I also have an opinion or a 18 memorandum in support from the city of New 19 York. No, we're not looking to add clerks and 20 we're certainly not looking to add more judges. 21 We think this legislation will address the 22 backlog and the frivolous lawsuits that they 23 already have there. 7558 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 In addressing the backlog, but 4 you are going to need more clerks. There are - 5 if you take the statistics of how many second 6 adjournments there are, and you subtract even 7 the cases that you think may be frivolous, there 8 are a lot of issues that arise out of landlord 9 and tenant disputes over rent, and you are going 10 to need additional personnel. 11 If the Senator would continue to 12 yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leibell, do you yield to another question? 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 19 there seems to be an amendment to your bill that 20 states that when government subsidy is paying 21 the rent, that that is permissible under your 22 legislation, but what about those tenants who 23 are applying for government subsidy where there 7559 1 are months of delays, such as women who are 2 getting rents for themselves and their children 3 under the Jiggets program, and so you've got the 4 court demanding monies when the court has 5 actually suggested that the women enroll in the 6 program. You have months of delays and at least 7 under your legislation it would still appear 8 that the individuals would still be forced to 9 pay their rent to the courts. 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: Well, as a 11 practical matter the most of these actions are 12 only commenced or would only be commenced after 13 there's been a few months in arrears on the 14 rents and there is also a provision in here for 15 the adjournment that would be -- they would be 16 entitled to after this would come into play, so 17 I think there would be more than enough time, 18 probably in most cases a few months, for them to 19 make their applications and to receive their 20 payments. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 7560 1 President. If the Senator would continue to 2 yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Leibell, you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 continues to yield. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9 what about the landlord who adjourns the 10 proceeding more than twice? 11 SENATOR LEIBELL: Would not have 12 to pay then. The tenant would not have to pay 13 then. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, I would 15 assume that, but I'm asking what happens to the 16 landlord. The landlord has adjourned the case 17 more than twice. Tenants come down, leave work, 18 go out of their way to come to court as the 19 landlord has on many occasions. 20 SENATOR LEIBELL: I think it 21 would clearly be contrary to the landlord's 22 interest to do that because he would be losing 23 his rent. 7561 1 SENATOR PATERSON: But the 2 question I'm asking is, since the emphasis of 3 the legislation was fairness, in this particular 4 situation, I don't see any penalty for the 5 landlord that adjourns twice other than the one 6 that we assume that the landlord is not getting 7 their rent, but the -- often what's happening in 8 these particular situations is that -- is that 9 the continued -- for instance, if the landlord 10 continues to adjourn and then different dates 11 are set which would make it more difficult for 12 the tenant, then maybe the tenant adjourns, once 13 you get the tenant up to two, you get the tenant 14 to have to remit all of the back rent and all of 15 the many of the charges that the tenants are 16 disputing to the courts; so in other words I 17 would see a way strategically that, by the 18 landlord adjourning a few times, that you could 19 drive the tenant up to two, all you have to do 20 is find two -- any two occasions when a court 21 date was called and the tenant didn't get there 22 and under your legislation won't they get to 23 two, now they're going to have to remit all the 7562 1 past due rent and any other late charges or fees 2 that the tenant is actually disputing, so if we 3 really want to establish fairness, I want to 4 know, is there any punishment to the landlord 5 for doing the exact same thing that the tenant 6 would be doing? 7 SENATOR LEIBELL: That probably 8 does reflect a philosophical difference, 9 Senator, because I'm of the opinion that there 10 are very few landlords who would gleefully give 11 up their rent, and certainly I would view the 12 loss of rent to a landlord as a substantial 13 loss. Anything that a landlord would do that 14 would prevent their receiving rents, I would 15 consider to be some form of a penalty. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 Well, Senator Leibell, there is a 21 philosophical disagreement between the two of us 22 because I'm not assuming any greater or less 23 character on the part of landlords or tenants. 7563 1 I'm assuming that all tenants of the state of 2 New York, that they're all probably generally 3 taxpayers, and that you have some bad apples in 4 both bags. 5 All I'm saying is that this 6 legislation seems to address the bad apples, in 7 the tenants' area more so, but it can also hurt 8 the tenants who have a legitimate complaint. If 9 the tenant is sure that the landlord was over 10 charging, that the landlord was engaging in 11 actions by use of exacting certain fees as a 12 matter of fact under the law, we are so sure 13 that the landlords do do this on occasion, not 14 all the landlords, but that a significant enough 15 number that we have under our law granted to the 16 tenant the right not to pay the rent as the 17 remedy when there is this kind of violation, and 18 then the matter is settled in court, and we 19 already have in the law that after the second 20 adjournment that the judge can ask that the 21 tenant pay all future rents from that particular 22 point, so what we've already established under 23 our law is an understanding that both the 7564 1 landlord and the tenant can be delinquent and 2 both the landlord and the tenant on occasion can 3 be lacking in character. 4 My question to you is that, how 5 can you -- what -- how can you deny the tenant 6 due process when the landlord has not 7 established that there should be the remittance 8 of this payment in the first place, that the 9 reason perhaps that the money has been withdrawn 10 is because the tenant wants to get the landlord 11 into court to let the judge hear what the 12 landlord's conduct has been. 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Well, let me - 14 let me, Senator, go back to the problem which 15 gave rise to this legislation where you have 16 many, many millions of dollars that are being 17 lost every year in terms of rent to landlords, 18 many of those rent dollars that could have been 19 used to repair and make certain that buildings 20 are in decent condition so that other tenants 21 will have a quality place to live in. 22 The absence of those tenant 23 dollars will frequently result in buildings 7565 1 falling into disrepair, taxes not being paid and 2 maybe those buildings even coming back into 3 public ownership. We think that's a situation 4 that we can correct through this legislation. 5 We think this is a fair way to proceed. It's a 6 -- it's a method of saying that, if you have 7 gone for a period of time, at the tenant's own 8 fault, adjourning it and have not paid any rent, 9 that subsequently that rent some day will be 10 available if the court should, in fact, 11 determine that the landlord was entitled to that 12 rent. 13 It's not a question of, as is 14 frequently the case, where three months down the 15 line the landlord says, "Guess what? I'm not 16 being paid, now I have to go into court." Then 17 it's many, many months in court with many 18 adjournments and by that point in time there is 19 so much rent that is owed, the easiest thing is 20 for that tenant to skip out; there's no rent to 21 go to the landlord and, in fact, the building 22 can fall into disrepair and, as has frequently 23 been the case, and I think that's quite clearly 7566 1 why the city of New York has reached out to us 2 and said, We need this legislation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson, excuse the interruption. 5 Senator Velella, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR VELELLA: There will be 7 an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 8 Room 332, immediate meeting. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 10 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority 11 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of 12 the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 13 Room, in Room 332. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Velella. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: There will be 18 an immediate meeting of the Crime and 19 Corrections Committee in the first floor 20 conference room, Room 20 -- 123. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Also 22 there will be an immediate meeting of the Crime 23 and Corrections Committee in Room 123 of the 7567 1 Capitol. Immediate meeting of the Crime and 2 Corrections Committee, Room 123 of the Capitol. 3 Senator Paterson, you have the 4 floor. May we continue to let the people who 5 have to go to a committee meeting go to the 6 committee meetings and things should quiet 7 down. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 Senator Onorato, excuse me. Why 12 do you rise? 13 SENATOR ONORATO: Some of the 14 members who are leaving now for the meetings are 15 very interested in voting on it, but I see 16 they've already left. I was going to ask to 17 call the last section and they could have an 18 opportunity to vote before they go to their next 19 meetings. This is a pretty important piece of 20 legislation for the residents of the city of New 21 York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Well, 23 Senator Onorato, I see no reason at this point 7568 1 unless there's the intention of the Minority 2 Leader to call a slow roll call. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 there was a slow roll call on this piece of 5 legislation last year, so the - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is that 7 your intention this year, Senator Paterson? 8 SENATOR PATERSON: I would 9 imagine that's our intention this year, to call 10 a slow roll call and with the members at the 11 Rules Committee and - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I would 13 think, Senator Paterson, if you, at the 14 conclusion of the debate, when you call a slow 15 roll we will surely let the people in those 16 committee meetings know a roll call is being 17 taken. The roll call does take approximately 30 18 minutes to get through, as you know, and having 19 experienced many of them, so there will be an 20 ample opportunity for them to come from Room 123 21 or Room 332. We will not preclude them from 22 voting, sir. 23 Senator Onorato, thank you for 7569 1 bringing this forth to the floor. We are 2 certainly aware of it. 3 Senator Paterson, you have the 4 floor. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, Mr. 6 President, might I suggest that during the 7 debate somebody of sufficient office from this 8 chamber go to those committee meetings and 9 inform the members that there will be a slow 10 roll call on this piece of legislation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson, you have the floor. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. If 14 Senator Leibell would continue to yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leibell, do you continue to yield to Senator 17 Paterson? 18 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the 22 issue of the constitutionality of your 23 legislation, in spite of what you are pointing 7570 1 out about the landlord facing the problem of the 2 building falling into disrepair, still there's a 3 constitutional question in what is really a 4 hybrid circumstance, of the payment of rent for 5 certain services, and it is well held law that 6 the -- that the remedy for the tenant is not to 7 -- is not to pay the rent, so, therefore, does 8 this bill not, even as well intended as you may 9 advocate that it is, deny the tenant due process 10 having to pay monies into the court that may 11 have actually already been expended for the 12 problem that the tenant is trying to -- is 13 trying to ameliorate? 14 For instance, if the landlord 15 wasn't providing oil and the tenant put the 16 money up to get the oil into the boiler, now the 17 tenant has expended some of the money that they 18 otherwise would have paid for rent and that's 19 why the tenant stopped paying rent, so in this 20 particular situation the tenant now has a 21 financial encumbrance set upon herself or him 22 self because of this added expenditure, and 23 you're saying that until the resolution of this 7571 1 case, that there now has to be a deposit into 2 the courts after second adjournment, and I'm 3 maintaining that that denies the tenant due 4 process really under the Fourteenth Amendment. 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: Well, Senator 6 if I might respond to that. This is not money 7 that is paid to the landlord. It's paid into 8 the court. The court will have the money 9 available there in the case, in fact, you cite. 10 If the tenant comes forward and is able to show 11 that he has certain expenses incurred, that's 12 something the court is going to be able to take 13 into consideration and he will have monies 14 available and, in fact, those monies should be 15 cut out from rent due that would be an 16 appropriate thing for the court to do and with 17 respect to the constitutionality of it, I 18 believe, and counsel has advised me that there 19 are -- and we discussed this last year, that we 20 feel comfortable this passes easily 21 constitutional muster. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson. 7572 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 2 thank you and if Senator Leibell would continue 3 to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leibell, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 yields. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 10 Leibell, maybe under the theory I gave to you 11 the landlord didn't pay the Con Ed bill, the 12 utility bill. In those actual cases the money 13 may be going to the Con Ed company or the other 14 utility company. It's not being held by the 15 court. 16 What's happened in this case is, 17 we're asking the tenant to go beyond 18 expenditures that they've already made. Now, we 19 -- we passed a law about the fuel matter and, 20 you know, about utility costs, and so what I'm 21 saying, would this bill not be a little more 22 fair to all parties if there was at least a 23 rebuttable presumption in the bill that, if a 7573 1 tenant can raise the defense that the monies 2 have already been expended, that that would 3 mitigate the tenant's mandate to have to deposit 4 money with the court? 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: No, I think 6 this bill is constructed in a way that will be 7 fair to all parties. The court is going to have 8 to use what discretion that it ultimately has. 9 We'll be able to reimburse in those cases you're 10 referring to, as well as tenants have other 11 remedies to be able to proceed to court with 12 their own claims. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. If Senator Leibell will continue to 17 yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leibell, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, I 21 would suggest to you that discretion is more 22 damaged by this legislation. We're taking away 23 all judicial discretion. The judges have 7574 1 discretion right now. In spite of our 2 disagreement, I think where we probably would 3 agree is that if we could upgrade the number of 4 personnel that are in our courts both in the 5 judiciary and clerical and support staff to 6 handle these cases, we'd probably bring about a 7 more expedient resolution. 8 But getting back to the point, 9 we're taking discretion away, and as much as 10 you're saying that it is discretion, you still 11 haven't answered my question about what does the 12 tenant say when the tenant is -- is maintaining 13 that they spent that money? They spent that 14 money to make what were hazardous remedial 15 repairs in that particular -- in that particular 16 situation even though we don't have a law. 17 What if the toilet broke and the 18 landlord didn't do anything, and the tenants 19 took up a collection and paid for a new boiler, 20 what happens in those situations, and my 21 question is, now you're taking rent deposits 22 from tenants where the rent was, in a sense, or 23 a substantial part of it was already paid in 7575 1 other costs, and you have no remedy for the 2 tenant in this legislation. 3 SENATOR LEIBELL: It would seem 4 to me, Senator, that you're focusing more on a 5 particular court system that appears to be, from 6 what you're saying, very inefficient and 7 ineffective, that possibly the judiciary that 8 are sitting there now are not doing their job. 9 That's something that maybe you would know more 10 about than I would, but I would suggest to you 11 that this will provide and protect tenants at 12 the same time it will protect the buildings that 13 they live in, and we can go back and forth on 14 this for an endless number of hours, but you 15 will perceive this as unfair, but I perceive 16 this as actually fair to everyone. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 18 if Senator will continue to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 will continue to yield. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, we're 22 not going back and forth, we're going back and 23 back because what I'm trying to ask you, I'm not 7576 1 getting an answer. I'm saying the tenant comes 2 into court and says, "Your Honor, you take the 3 money that I'm now mandated to pay in a rent 4 deposit because there were two adjournments. I 5 took that money and I paid to purchase oil to go 6 in our boiler because my landlord didn't provide 7 us with any oil. You are now asking me to take 8 additional funds that I don't have and deposit 9 them with the court because I did not pay my 10 rent for that particular time period and I'm 11 asking you what is the solution to that specific 12 situation?" Nothing general; what is the 13 solution to that specific case that is advocated 14 by tenants in Housing Court all over the city 15 and all over different parts of the state? 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: If it is the 17 fact that should happen, the tenant would 18 normally go into Housing Court anyway, in 19 addition to which they would have that as a 20 defense in this action. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 not what the bill says. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7577 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Not what the 3 bill says. 4 The bill says after two 5 adjournments, there has to be a deposit with the 6 court, and so I'm saying if the tenant has gone 7 into -- if the tenant has gone into court and 8 there are now two adjournments under their 9 legislation, in spite of the fact that you have 10 these additional payments that the tenant is 11 maintaining that were made, you have a situation 12 where now the tenant is being forced to make 13 deposits when later on it may be proved that it 14 was quite correct on the part of the tenant to 15 use the money in the way they did, but now they 16 don't have the money, so now they have a 17 delinquency problem with the court, not even 18 with the landlord, and there's a presumption of 19 lack of cooperation or disingenuousness by the 20 tenant even though the actual legal case later 21 on will substantiate what the tenant is 22 maintaining, and you have absolutely no remedy 23 for the tenant in this legislation, and I'm 7578 1 asking you. I know the tenant went into court. 2 That's how he wound up with the adjournment, so 3 I'm asking you what is the tenant's remedy in 4 that situation? It doesn't happen all the time 5 but it happens enough of the time that we should 6 have some remedy under the law for it. 7 SENATOR LEIBELL: This is an 8 action that's brought by a landlord during a 9 very narrow circumstance. The tenant would have 10 their own ability to go into court. In this 11 narrow circumstance where the landlord has 12 commenced an action, the tenant would be able to 13 use that and to explain to the court, and that 14 would be a set-off. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: The 18 legislation that you have, Senator, only really 19 basically addresses two -- two circumstances 20 where there is some redress for this particular 21 situation. One is when government subsidy will 22 pay the rent and the other is when the tenant is 23 actually vacated. 7579 1 What I'm saying to you is, in the 2 circumstance that I am -- that I am suggesting 3 to you, you are now saying, Well, the tenant 4 could go into court, but I'm saying there is a 5 remedy that the tenant used and the remedy was 6 they didn't pay the rent. In other words, they 7 didn't take a day to go into court. They 8 already took a day to go buy the oil, and I'm 9 saying they didn't go into court. They don't 10 have to. They maintained that -- that this is a 11 way to send a message to the landlord and if the 12 landlord realizes he was it and subtracts the 13 money that was paid for utility costs or 14 whatever it was that was considered to be 15 hazardous, that if that occurs, now, the tenant 16 and the the landlord never even had to go to 17 court. 18 But the landlord doesn't do 19 that. The landlord takes the tenant to court 20 for payment of back rent and maybe late charges, 21 and all the while the tenant actually used that 22 money for something else, and so now the 23 landlord is in court with the tenant, the two 7580 1 adjournments and bang! Now, the tenant has to 2 make deposits of money that was already spent, 3 and I'm -- and I'm saying, unless you're 4 disputing this, that there's no remedy in this 5 bill for that situation. 6 SENATOR LEIBELL: I am, Senator, 7 because this is a fast proceeding. It is 8 designed to be a quick remedy. It is designed 9 to prevent something from going many months and 10 getting out of hand. It's designed to be 11 brought before a city court, city housing court 12 judge, for a quick determination, so that in 13 fact, unlike presently what we have is you can 14 go many, many months and have no determination. 15 Let the court make the decision whether or not, 16 in fact, payments were just, whether as you're 17 saying for utilities, let the court make a very 18 prompt expeditious decision and reconcile the 19 issue very quickly. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 23 Senator Leibell. Thank you very much. You may 7581 1 have found it repetitious, but you did respond 2 to my questions. 3 Mr. President, on the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson, on the bill. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 7 Leibell is saying, let the court make the 8 decision. Let the court come to the inevitable 9 conclusion. Let the court be the fact finder, 10 but he won't let the court do anything after the 11 second adjournment. He mandates in this 12 legislation that the tenant deposit the back 13 rent, perhaps late charges that never should 14 have been there, perhaps other fees that are 15 speculative to the situation that the landlord 16 just added on -- major -- who knows, major 17 capital improvements that don't exist, and he 18 only accepts those situations where there's 19 fraud, where the landlord isn't who they say 20 they are or circumstances where there's some 21 sort of constructive eviction. 22 He does not recognize that we 23 have a law that we passed in this Senate that 7582 1 passed the Assembly and the Governor signed, 2 enabling tenants to spend money for necessary 3 remedial work that needed to be done in the 4 apartment such as paying the utility bill when 5 the utility cut off getting oil for the oil 6 burner, and maybe if the court decides something 7 that was life threatening that the tenant was 8 left with no choice. If there is now a second 9 adjournment because the landlord -- because the 10 tenant could not get to court on two occasions 11 when this becomes a matter that's being 12 litigated in the appropriate Housing Court, 13 because that is now occurring, we are passing a 14 law that mandates that the tenant who's out of 15 money, having paid this money to other sources, 16 that that tenant now has to pay additionally all 17 of the fees that the landlord requested to the 18 court to be -- to basically be decided later on 19 by a court decision. 20 There are a lot of people that 21 don't have the money to wait for a later court 22 decision, and I think it would have a chilling 23 effect on those individuals who wanted to use 7583 1 the law that we already passed and spend the 2 money because unless they can assure themselves 3 that they're going to be in court on time, with 4 the exception of two penultimately, every time. 5 Then we're going to have a situation where 6 tenants are going to be put in jeopardy. 7 Now, Senator Leibell wishes to 8 provide for fairness in this particular 9 legislation and we understand his point that if 10 enough rents are not paid that it starts to 11 become an economic problem for the landlord to 12 keep up the condition of the building in the 13 first place, but if there is a true desire to 14 establish fairness in this kind of proceeding, 15 then I would suggest that the issue that I've 16 raised is the -- is an issue that needs to be 17 amended and put into this piece of legislation 18 because we already have a law that tells the 19 tenant that the tenant can do that. 20 Additionally, the strain on court 21 personnel is apparently far more than we may 22 have forecast when we first started considering 23 this bill. Now that we have an administrative 7584 1 judge in the Civil Court of New York City 2 stating that he thinks we'd have to add 130 3 clerks just to deal with the deposits and all 4 the issues that that would -- would involve 5 herein, we have a situation where, what we need 6 to do in -- in addition to Senator Leibell's 7 other work on the issue, is to start to make 8 sure that we have enough judges and enough 9 support personnel to actually litigate these 10 types of cases. 11 What is, in my opinion, sad about 12 the whole circumstance, is the presumptions that 13 we are making when these types of court cases 14 usually involve individuals who are leaving 15 their jobs, who can't get permission to leave, 16 and are faced with a circumstance that they have 17 invoked. What is their remedy as we provided in 18 the past to hold back the rent when we feel that 19 the landlord is being unfair? If that is 20 something that is so anathema to the desires of 21 lawmakers in this chamber, then maybe we need to 22 change that law, but having not addressed that 23 particular issue, what we are doing is stripping 7585 1 the tenant, number one, of really the right to 2 withhold rent as a remedy for inadequate service 3 and then secondly, just totally diminishing and 4 obfuscating the spirit of the law that was 5 passed previously which allowed the tenant to 6 make certain repairs and pass them along to the 7 landlord by withholding the rent and then 8 raising it in the appropriate court jurisdiction 9 later on. 10 So I would urge that there not be 11 passage on this legislation, because of that, 12 but that is my suggestion as to how we could 13 upgrade the legislation to make it truly fair 14 and workable for all parties. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Onorato. 17 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 18 will the Senator yield to some questions? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leibell, do you yield? 21 SENATOR LEIBELL: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 yields. 7586 1 SENATOR ONORATO: Senator, I'm 2 sure you're familiar with many of the rent 3 strikes that have occurred in the city of New 4 York and the newspapers have been full many, 5 many times over with what we call slumlords who 6 just take everything out of a building without 7 putting anything back into it. 8 Now, we're discussing a multiple 9 dwelling, but most of the incidents that you're 10 referring to occur to maybe one-, two-, three 11 family homes where there's much more access to 12 get in and out of a building, but when a rent 13 strike occurs because there are multiple 14 violations that have been stated and they're 15 officially on record and nothing is being done 16 about it, and I had a bill similar to yours that 17 really addressed this here, but when the rent 18 strike occurred that they must put -- deposit 19 the rent with the court in an interest-bearing 20 account and that the court, until the dispute is 21 resolved, would be able to use the funds to 22 maintain the building until it was resolved. 23 Does your bill cover that 7587 1 particular situation? 2 SENATOR LEIBELL: This bill 3 covers it to this extent, that this is a summary 4 proceeding and by its definition is meant to be 5 expeditious. It's supposed to go very quickly 6 and, as a result, the court should be able to 7 make a determination immediately and then on the 8 basis of that, apply the funds as necessary. 9 SENATOR ONORATO: Well, then 10 Senator, with all due respect, knowing the city 11 of New York and the court system the way it is 12 that when they tell you expeditiously your idea 13 of expeditiously may be two months. New York 14 City's court system idea of expeditious may be 15 11 months or 12 months or 14 months, so again, 16 we're in a very, very cloudy area here as to 17 what constitutes expeditiously. A month or - 18 everybody would consider that could be 19 expeditious, but if you're talking about 12 or 20 13 months, that's not expeditious. 21 SENATOR LEIBELL: But I would say 22 to you that probably it's -- this problem 23 obviously is a controversial area. Anything in 7588 1 housing is. You say that probably anybody would 2 consider a month fair. There are probably some 3 people who would consider 24 hours too long. 4 O.K. It's a controversial area. 5 SENATOR ONORATO: Currently, and 6 I believe the Housing Court is only about 16 to 7 18 months in backlog of cases pending on both 8 sides of the aisle, those brought by the tenant 9 and those by the landlord. 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: One of the 11 reasons is adjournments, which this bill is 12 aimed to address. 13 SENATOR ONORATO: Again, Senator, 14 I think if you sort of amend the bill to address 15 some of these problems, it may make it a little 16 more palatable because everybody wants 17 fairness. They don't want landlords not being 18 paid their rent because we know there are - 19 there is a scam out there with some tenants have 20 learned the system so well that they move from 21 one place to another without ever paying rent in 22 a five-year period of time. There is no 23 question about it. 7589 1 But your bill does not address 2 those particular scare models. I would like to 3 broaden it to really cover these particular type 4 of situations, and I think if you made some of 5 these more amendments to it that you might get a 6 little bit more support from all of us on it. I 7 would really hope that you would consider such a 8 move. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 11 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 12 section. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 14 call. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Could we have 23 a slow roll call, Mr. President? 7590 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will call the roll slowly. 3 Senator Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 5 was just going to comment that the Rules 6 Committee is still meeting, so if the Secretary 7 could call the roll very slowly and if the bell 8 could ring, we certainly want to give all the 9 members who are outside the chamber right now 10 who are working on Senate business an 11 opportunity to come in. It's very important 12 that they be here obviously because there is a 13 slow roll call on this legislation. 14 So, Mr. President, if we could 15 begin that in a moment or so, it would be very 16 helpful. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 18 SENATOR ABATE: No. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Stafford, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Could I have 23 my name called out of order, please. 7591 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will call Senator Stafford's name. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Stafford. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Stafford will be recorded in the affirmative. 8 Continue to call the roll slowly. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 10 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Bruno. 14 (Affirmative indication. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 16 (Negative indication. ) 17 Senator Cook. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator DeFrancisco. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 22 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7592 1 Dollinger. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Espada. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Farley. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Gold. 8 (There was no response. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Gonzalez. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Goodman. 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 17 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 19 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Holland. 23 (There was no response. ) 7593 1 Senator Johnson. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Kuhl. 6 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 8 SENATOR LACHMAN: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Larkin. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator LaValle. 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 21 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 7594 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Marcellino. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Markowitz. 8 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Just to 9 explain my vote. 10 Much as I respect the chairman of 11 our committee, I must vote no. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Markowitz will be recorded in the negative. 14 Continue to call the roll 15 slowly. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 19 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 23 President, I want to explain my vote. 7595 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Montgomery to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I vote on 4 this bill with qualifications. I too have had 5 cases, as explained by Senator Onorato, where 6 landlords have contacted me and these are 7 constituents who own their property, who most of 8 the time live in their building and have had 9 tenants who did not pay and the court case 10 extends for over a year and the tenant 11 eventually leaves without paying. It happens 12 time and time again, but I think that we need to 13 again, as Senator Onorato has stated, we need to 14 have legislation that deals more specifically 15 with that, does not, in fact, penalize tenants 16 or keep them from being able to legitimately 17 withhold their rent in a rent strike action, but 18 at the same time protects the interest of 19 landlords who really do try in all honesty to 20 maintain their property, to do a good job in 21 providing housing, but who have such experiences 22 with tenants who don't pay that they are unable 23 to do so. 7596 1 So I'm voting no, Mr. President, 2 but I hope to see a bill come back that does 3 include some of the provisions raised by Senator 4 Onorato. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative. 8 Continue to call the roll slowly. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Nozzolio. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 14 SENATOR ONORATO: Explain my 15 vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Onorato to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 19 I -- again I'm in favor of the concept of the 20 bill but again I don't believe it goes far 21 enough in offering equal protection and again, I 22 urge Senator Leibell to take a look at some of 23 the things that I had in my bill which would 7597 1 mandate where there was a prolonged decision 2 that the courts have the ability to maintain the 3 buildings when we're dealing with multiple 4 dwellings and the services are in great demand. 5 Until that time, I will be voting no. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Onorato will be recorded in the negative. 8 Continue to call the roll. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Oppenheimer. 11 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 20 (There was no audible response. ) 21 Senator Saland. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago 7598 1 excused. 2 Senator Seabrook. 3 SENATOR SEABROOK: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 5 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Skelos. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Smith. 11 (Negative indication. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 13 SENATOR SPANO: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Stachowski. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 18 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 19 Senator Stavisky excused. 20 Senator Trunzo. 21 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 23 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 7599 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 6 (There was no audible response. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will call the absentees. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 12 SENATOR BABBUSH: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 14 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 19 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Gonzalez. 7600 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Hoffmann. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 Senator Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 7 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 13 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator - 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR GOLD: Are we -- usually 19 we take the four putt and go on to the next 20 hole. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm still 22 reliving the four putt, Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7601 1 do we have any time limit short of infinity that 2 this roll call can extend to? 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter, while you were on your way to the 6 Rules Committee meeting, Senator Onorato in 7 trying to make sure that your vote was 8 appropriately recorded, raised the issue about 9 committee meetings going on and Senator Paterson 10 seconded the issue, and Senator Libous, who was 11 sitting in the chair, indicated that they would 12 would give all those people who are in the Rules 13 Committee a chance to vote. 14 I think those committee meetings 15 are closed and the members have returned to the 16 chamber, so I think we're ready right now to 17 continue the roll, just so that you know. I'll 18 ask the Secretary to continue the roll call. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 20 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Seward. 7602 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Skelos. 3 (There was no response.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 5 the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31, nays 7 23. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 12 there will be an immediate conference of the 13 Majority in Room 332, and I will repeat, 14 immediate conference of the Majority in Room 15 332. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 19 there will be an immediate conference of the 20 Minority in Room 315 where we will discuss the 21 logarithmatic coefficient of the number of 31. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 23 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 7603 1 Majority in the Majority Conference Room, Room 2 332. Immediate meeting of the Senate Majority 3 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 4 There will also be an immediate 5 meeting of the Minority in the Minority 6 Conference Room, Room 315. Immediate meeting of 7 the Minority in the Minority Conference Room, 8 315. 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 11 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 12 recorded in the negative on Calendar 615. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Montgomery will be recorded 15 in the negative on Calendar 615. 16 Senator Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 18 President. May I have unanimous consent to be 19 recorded in the negative on Calendar 615. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 21 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 22 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 23 Calendar Number 615. 7604 1 Any other Senator wishing to 2 register a vote? Hearing none, the Senate 3 stands at ease. 4 (Whereupon at 12:21 p.m., the 5 Senate stood at ease until 1:10 p.m.) 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Senator Velella. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Would you 10 recognize Senator Lack, please. He has some 11 housekeeping measures. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 13 Lack. 14 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Senator 15 Velella. Thank you, Mr. President. 16 Would you please remove the star 17 on Calendar Number 142. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Remove 19 the star to Calendar - 20 SENATOR LACK: 142. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: So 22 moved. 23 SENATOR LACK: Thank you. 7605 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Would you 2 recognize Senator Saland, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 4 Saland. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 6 too would like to remove a sponsor's star from 7 Calendar Number 479, Senate 6145-A. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 9 star is removed. 10 Senator Velella, we have some 11 housekeeping. 12 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. Any other 13 housekeeping? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 15 Farley. 16 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, 17 Senator Libous -- Mr. President, rather. 18 As soon as I get my glasses, I 19 will be right with you. I see you're wearing 20 them. On behalf of Senator Volker, I wish to 21 call up his bill, Senate Print 587, which was 22 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 23 desk. 7606 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 4 Volker, Calendar Number 115, Senate Print 587, 5 an act to amend the Penal Law. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 7 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 8 passed. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 10 the roll on reconsideration. 11 (The Secretary called the roll on 12 reconsideration.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: I now offer the 15 following amendments. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 17 amendments are received. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 19 Senator Volker again, I wish to call up his 20 bill, Print Number 2445, which was recalled from 21 the Assembly which is now at the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 23 Secretary will read. 7607 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 434, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2445, an 3 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 5 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 6 passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 8 the roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: I now offer the 13 following amendments. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 15 amendments are received. 16 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 17 Senator Wright, Mr. President, I wish to call up 18 Calendar Number 410, Assembly Print Number 19 9124-A. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 21 Secretary will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 410, by Member of the Assembly Murtaugh, 7608 1 Assembly Print 9124-A, an act to amend the 2 Mental Hygiene Law. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 4 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly bill 5 was substituted for Senator Wright's bill, 6 Senate Print 6300-A, on 6/3/96. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 8 the roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move that 13 Assembly Bill Number 9124-A be recommitted to 14 the Committee on Rules and that Senator Wright's 15 Senate bill be restored to the order of third 16 reading. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 18 Recommit the Assembly Bill and restore the 19 Senate Bill to the third reading. 20 SENATOR FARLEY: And I offer the 21 following amendments to that bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 23 following amendments are received. 7609 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 2 on behalf of Senator Levy, on page 4, I offer 3 the following amendments to Calendar 108, Senate 4 Print 4337. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 6 Secretary will read -- the amendments are 7 received. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 9 move that the following bill be discharged from 10 its respective committee -- this is on behalf of 11 Senator Bruno -- and be recommitted with 12 instructions to strike the enacting clause, and 13 that is Senate Print 5614. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 15 enacting clause is stricken. 16 Senator Velella. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: There will be 18 an immediate meeting of the Higher Ed' Committee 19 at Room 517-A. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: An 21 immediate meeting of the Higher Ed' Committee in 22 Room 5... 23 SENATOR VELELLA: In the Capitol. 7610 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: ...17-A 2 in the Capitol. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 4 would you recognize Senator Saland who has a 5 resolution that was previously passed and ask 6 the desk to read it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 8 Saland. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 10 believe there is at the desk a previously 11 adopted privileged resolution. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: There 13 is at the desk. The title will be read. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 17 Saland, Legislative Resolution honoring Jules 18 Kerness upon the occasion of his designation as 19 recipient of the 1996 Howard A. Levine Award for 20 Excellence in Juvenile Justice and Child Welfare 21 by the New York State Bar Association Committee 22 on Children and the Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7611 1 Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 3 on the resolution. 4 I take great pleasure in bringing 5 this resolution before us because, not only does 6 it recognize a long and continued commitment of 7 one member of my staff and before that, the 8 staff of other Senators, but the gentleman, 9 Jules Kerness, who was recognized for this award 10 is a gentleman who has served this house 11 admirably for more than 30 years and has been 12 instrumental in each and every children and 13 families measure that has ever been considered 14 by this house. 15 For me, our relationship has been 16 all too brief. He has been an extraordinary 17 resource, a superb talent and a person who I 18 have turned to time and again when looking for 19 not merely the history of what has gone on in 20 this house dealing with those types of issues 21 but certainly the substance. 22 This is not only a pleasurable 23 moment but a bittersweet moment because Jules is 7612 1 leaving this house at the conclusion of our 2 regular session and will be, in fact, leaving 3 the area and enjoying a well earned and well 4 deserved retirement. 5 He will be sorely missed. His 6 contributions have been absolutely enormous. 7 I'm not quite sure if I could reasonably expect 8 to enjoy the kinds of confidence, the kinds of 9 relationship that I have enjoyed with him in the 10 immediate future with any other individual 11 simply because of that not only superb talent 12 but wealth of history. 13 His loss will be deeply felt and 14 yet I'm pleased that he was able to, in effect, 15 pick his time and not merely pick his time but 16 do it in a fashion which suited him and this 17 body as best as could reasonably be expected. 18 He's seated here in the chamber 19 with us today, and I would hope that we would 20 recognize him not merely for being honored by 21 receipt of this extraordinary award, the best 22 that the Bar Association has to offer, but even 23 beyond that for his absolutely extraordinary 7613 1 dedicated service to not merely the Senate 2 Majority but to this house and to the people of 3 the state of New York. 4 My colleagues, I would ask that 5 you please recognize Jules for his continued 6 superb commitment. I'm at a loss of words to 7 share with you just how much I have benefited as 8 chairman of Children and Families from his 9 service and his expertise. 10 As I said earlier, he'll be 11 sorely missed, but his honors are well deserved. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 13 Cook. 14 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 15 Jules has never been a member of my staff but I 16 can tell you I have benefited through the years 17 from his talents and abilities almost as though 18 he were a staff member. It seems as though 19 almost from the point that I came to Albany, I 20 have known Jules, and in a number of connections 21 of things that we've tried to do through the 22 Commission on Rural Resources, through the 23 Education Committee, he has been one of those 7614 1 people that when you go to Jules with an idea 2 and you say, "This is the problem and we think 3 maybe this is the way we ought to deal with it", 4 he would just kind of burst forth with a full 5 solution or a full answer or sometimes saying, 6 you know, "You got rocks in your head. That 7 idea doesn't work", but really, he is a resource 8 that is just invaluable and we're going to miss 9 him tremendously, but as Senator Saland said, we 10 certainly can't wish that he would hang around 11 and abbreviate further his retirement, and we 12 certainly wish him well in everything that he 13 does. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 15 resolution was passed previously -- Senator 16 Farley. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you. 18 I just rise to congratulate Jules 19 and to say, incidentally, Howard Levine, for 20 whom this award is named, is from Niskayuna, my 21 hometown. We ran several in elections together 22 when he was district attorney, a great Family 23 Court judge and on the Court of Appeals right 7615 1 now, and certainly this award is a very, very 2 high honor and Jules is very well deserving and, 3 again, it's a sign that the members of the 4 Senate family that have -- are recognized as 5 being outstanding contributors to this state. 6 So often staff around here are truly not 7 appreciated by the general public. They work in 8 a job that is not protected by Civil Service. 9 They work in a job of long hours and generally 10 speaking underpaid and I don't think fully 11 appreciated, but they're certainly appreciated 12 by their principals and, Jules, we're grateful 13 for all that you've done not only for the Senate 14 but for the people of the state of New York. We 15 wish you well. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Anybody 17 else wishing to speak on the resolution? 18 (There was no response.) 19 The resolution was previously 20 adopted. Jules, on behalf of Senator Bruno and 21 all of our colleagues, we want to wish you the 22 very best and we say congratulations to you for 23 a very well established career and particularly 7616 1 to your commitment to the Committee on Children 2 and Families. 3 Thank you for your years of 4 service. 5 (Applause) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7 Velella. 8 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 9 can we return to the reports of standing 10 committees. I believe there's a Rules Committee 11 report at the desk, if you'll have it read. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 13 Secretary will read the Rules Committee report. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 15 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 16 following bills: 17 Senate Print 738, by Senator 18 Maltese, an act to amend the New York City Civil 19 Court act; 20 3088-A, by Senator Lack, an act 21 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to direct 22 sellers; 23 4142, by Senator Kruger, an act 7617 1 to allow Jack Walfish, a retired member of the 2 New York State Teachers Retirement System; 3 5386-A, by Senator Goodman, an 4 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 5 5747-A, by Senator Hoblock, an 6 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 7 property of the State Museum; 8 6096, by Senator LaValle, an act 9 to amend the Social Services Law and the Mental 10 Hygiene Law; 11 6249-A, by Senator Skelos, an act 12 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to 13 the tariff filings; 14 6578, by Senator Nanula, an act 15 in relation to allowing certain persons; 16 6615-A, by Senator Hannon, an act 17 to amend Chapter 535 of the Laws of 1983; 18 6729-A, by Senator Stafford, an 19 act to amend Chapter 266 of the Laws of 1981; 20 7254-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 21 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law, 22 in relation to authorizing credit; 23 7297-A, by Senator Lack, an act 7618 1 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 2 to duties; 3 7455, by Senator Hannon, an act 4 to amend the Facilities Development Corporation 5 Act; 6 7556, by Senator Present, an act 7 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act; 8 7561, by Senator Rath, an act to 9 amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 10 Agriculture and Markets Law; 11 7562, by Senator Rath, an act to 12 amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to 13 the definition of special franchise property; 14 7563-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 16 relation to planning; 17 7580, by Senator Hannon, an act 18 to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act of 19 1974; 20 7589, by Senator Levy, an act to 21 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 22 to the maximum length of buses; 23 7591-A, by Senator Kuhl, an act 7619 1 in relation to authorizing the city of 2 Canandaigua, county of Ontario; 3 7679, by Senator Farley, an act 4 authorizing the city of Schenectady to 5 discontinue; 6 And 7696, by Senator DeFrancisco, 7 an act authorizing a transfer into retirement 8 plans. 9 All bills ordered directly for 10 third reading. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Velella. 13 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 14 can we go to the controversial calendar, the 15 regular order. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 17 Senator, would you move to accept the Rules 18 report. 19 SENATOR VELELLA: Oh, I'm sorry. 20 Move to accept the Rules report. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: All in 22 favor of accepting the Rules Committee report 23 signify by saying aye. 7620 1 (Response of "Aye".) 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 The report is accepted. 5 Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Now can we go 7 to the regular order of the controversial 8 calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Regular 10 order. The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1002, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 13 5776-C, an act to amend the Executive Law, in 14 relation to emergency. 15 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator 16 Marcellino is at a committee meeting right now. 17 Could we lay that aside temporarily. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: We'll 19 lay that bill aside temporarily. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1079, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6572, an 22 act authorizing the commissioner of General 23 Services. 7621 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1088, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 575, an 13 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 14 administrative provisions. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: I'm 20 sorry. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Could we lay 22 that aside for the day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: We'll 7622 1 lay that aside for the day. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1173, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4060, an 4 act to amend the Correction Law, the Criminal 5 Procedure Law, the Penal Law and the Executive 6 Law. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 9 Saland, Senator Paterson is asking for an 10 explanation. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 Mr. President, this bill 14 endeavors to create a -- a notification 15 mechanism where an individual who is a -- either 16 a persistent or repeat violent felon has been 17 released into a community. It's a response to a 18 -- to an extraordinary tragedy that occurred in 19 my district, oh, about a year and a half or so 20 ago when an individual who is a multiple felon 21 had been released into this particular 22 community, the town of Red Hook, and nobody was 23 aware of the individual's background and 7623 1 subsequently, this individual, in fact, murdered 2 the son of a local law enforcement official, in 3 fact, a state trooper. 4 It indicated the glaring 5 weaknesses in the notification system, and this 6 bill endeavors to try and remedy that grievous 7 wrong -- not the grievous wrong of the fatality 8 of this young man who was killed, but the 9 grievous wrong to that community or communities 10 throughout New York by basically failing to 11 properly notify those communities when such 12 repeat and violent felons and persistent felons 13 had been released into their midst. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 If the Senator would yield for 19 a - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 21 Saland, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 7624 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, it is 4 very difficult to vote against this legislation 5 based on the tragedy that you have just 6 described and certainly you've set forth the 7 criteria that had notification been allowed, 8 there would not have been this terrible 9 circumstance that occurred in the town of Red 10 Hook. 11 What I'm asking is are we 12 legislating the exception? Are we legislating 13 what is really something anathema to the normal 14 situation where what we're going to have is a 15 stigma placed against those who have served 16 their time and are now released back into the 17 community? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Well, Senator, I 19 don't believe we've painted with too broad of a 20 brush. What we've endeavored to do with this 21 legislation is to basically deal with a limited 22 portion of the criminal justice spectrum, namely 23 persistent violence, persistent and repeat 7625 1 violent offenders. 2 I believe that there is an 3 obligation imposed upon us to endeavor to 4 provide notification. We've obviously failed to 5 do that, I believe by way of -- by way of their 6 prior records, not merely isolated incidents of 7 violence but repeat incidents of violence. They 8 require perhaps a greater degree of what I will 9 term for lack of any other term, observation, 10 community awareness than would be somebody who 11 might be merely a one-time felon or a 12 non-violent felon returning to a community. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 16 Senator. 17 I was thinking scrutiny, that 18 kind of thing. If the Senator would continue to 19 yield. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, what 23 is the threshold that would create the 7626 1 circumstance where somebody would become a 2 persistent violent offender under the 3 legislation? 4 SENATOR SALAND: Well, the 5 legislation provides for -- and I'm looking for 6 the section -- it's on the first page of the 7 bill, 149 (b), subsection (a) talks about second 8 violent felony offender, persistent violent 9 felony offender, which would be 3 and 2, 10 persistent felony offender, and those would be 11 three or more felons or felonies committed in 12 terms of persistent and vi... the persistent 13 violent would be three or more persistent - 14 three or more violent felonies. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, would 16 you yield for another question? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: There are some 20 instances of second felonies in the legislation, 21 am I correct? 22 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: There are 7627 1 instances of second felony convictions as the 2 criteria for this. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Second violent 4 felony. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Second violent 6 felony. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Correct. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. Thank 9 you very much, Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 on the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 14 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: As I said 16 before, certainly if a person is convicted of an 17 offense and if they're convicted and become a 18 predicate felon to a certain degree, as Senator 19 Saland points out, they have really, by the 20 commission of the crime, relinquished a number 21 of their rights, and it would probably be in the 22 best interests of society and of public safety 23 to have notification as to the whereabouts of 7628 1 these individuals. 2 I'm just a little concerned about 3 the scarlet letter. I'm just a little bit 4 concerned about the recidivism that might be 5 caused by a society that turns its back and 6 stigmatizes individuals. We restricted the 7 employment of people in certain areas based on 8 prior criminal record. Now we are holding them 9 out as outcasts of society. 10 I don't think I object to this 11 piece of legislation. What I think I object to 12 is the conglomerate effect of a number of bills 13 when looked at in aggregate, I think really are 14 sending a bad message about rehabilitation, 15 because no matter how long we incarcerate people 16 and no matter how many people we tell that 17 they're out and where they are, if we really are 18 going to try to protect society from 19 individuals, we're going to have to find some 20 better methods than we're using now. 21 But as for the thrust of the 22 legislation, the situations where there is a 23 tragedy and a fatality and there's some kind of 7629 1 indication that a different conduct may have 2 changed the circumstances certainly justifies 3 the presence of this piece of legislation. I 4 just think that in terms of some of the actual 5 counts that it goes too far. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7 Senator Montgomery. 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 9 Senator Saland, could I -- would 10 you -- Mr. President, would Senator Saland yield 11 to - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 13 Senator Saland, would you yield? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 19 Senator Saland, the second 20 offender -- the second felony offender, do you 21 have -- do you have an idea of the number of 22 people in this category and the number 23 specifically related to drug crime? 7630 1 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry? 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: To drug 3 crime in the second felony offender category? 4 SENATOR SALAND: The -- the 5 category is not second felony offender. It's 6 second violent felony offender, and by 7 definition -- although I don't have the Penal 8 Law here with me -- I believe that the vast 9 majority of the drug-related crimes are not 10 definitionally considered to be, quote-unquote, 11 "violent crimes". The violent crimes are 12 enumerated. Unfortunately, I just don't have my 13 Penal Law with me. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 15 If you would continue to yield, Senator Saland. 16 Where do these people in this 17 particular category generally return to? Do 18 they -- are they distributed fairly equally 19 throughout the state when they're released from 20 prison? Do they go to one area of the state 21 more likely based on where they came from than 22 other parts, or do they go -- are they more 23 likely to be in your district or in any other 7631 1 person's district? 2 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not sure if 3 there is any hard data that I could give you. 4 There is, I don't believe any rule of thumb that 5 says where that person -- to where that person 6 will return, whether it will be to the community 7 from which he or she originally resided or where 8 he or she may have last resided when the act or 9 acts that resulted in their conviction occurred 10 or were performed, but that's not to say that 11 they can't wind up in another community, and in 12 the case which I gave in a rather abbreviated 13 fashion in response to Senator Paterson, the 14 individual who committed the murder in this 15 community which I represent was not from the 16 community and, in fact, had no contact with the 17 community prior to his being released or -- and 18 then moving into the community. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. 20 Senator Saland, if you would continue to yield 21 to one other question. I didn't see - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 23 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 7632 1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 4 Senator yields. 5 Senator Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I didn't see 7 in here any reference to those prisoners who are 8 paroled. Does this also cover them as well, 9 anyone who is released on parole prior to - 10 SENATOR SALAND: This, I believe 11 deals with release or escape. I don't believe 12 we've dealt with parole within -- within the 13 context of this bill. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Just one 15 last question. I don't -- I asked it before, I 16 think, but I don't think you answered it. Do 17 you know what number of people - 18 SENATOR SALAND: Let me stand 19 corrected. I'm terribly sorry. I'm looking 20 down at Section 149 (b) on page -- in the first 21 page and it says, "Release shall include but 22 shall not be limited to parole, work release, 23 conditional discharge, benevolent leave, 7633 1 compassionate leave." So I apologize. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: So under any 3 circumstance. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me? 5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Under any 6 circumstance - 7 SENATOR SALAND: Correct. 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- the 9 reporting is required. Do we know how many 10 people on an annual basis, based on perhaps the 11 last ten years, how many people have been 12 released in this category? 13 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sure -- I'm 14 sure that is a readily discernible number. 15 Unfortunately, I don't have it. Our population 16 currently runs somewhere in the area of about 17 70,000, I would imagine in our facilities and a 18 certain number are either released or paroled or 19 -- or are provided leave in one form or 20 another. I would guess that we're probably 21 talking several thousand, somewhere in that area 22 during the course of the year. How many of them 23 would fit into this particular category or 7634 1 categories, plural, I couldn't give you, 2 although as I said, it probably would be readily 3 discernible. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 5 On the bill, Mr. President. 6 I understand what the frustration 7 of what Senator Saland must be to an incident 8 which occurred in his district and needless to 9 say, all of us have had such experiences I'm 10 sure, or at least most of us, but I just want to 11 point out that one of the missions of our penal 12 system ostensibly is rehabilitation and 13 certainly I would hope that that occurs at least 14 in some of the instances. 15 We've had more success based on 16 the fact that we've had fairly extensive 17 programs which attempted to address the whole 18 issue of recidivism through rehabilitative 19 measures, and in the last couple of years we've 20 lost some of that because of the direction that 21 our budget has taken and of the decisions to cut 22 in some of the areas that, in fact, would help 23 reduce recidivism. 7635 1 Be that as it may, we do have a 2 number of programs that still exist and 3 certainly one of them is in my own district. 4 There's a very excellent one that's right here 5 in Albany County. I would hope that there are 6 others that we could point to where inmates who 7 are released, many of them on parole -- based on 8 the law that exists now when they're eligible, 9 many of them who serve their time, in fact, come 10 out. Some of them participate while they are in 11 prison in some programs and others of them come 12 out of prison and participate in programs on the 13 outside which help them to -- to reintegrate 14 into society and become, in fact, as the example 15 in my own district, extremely important 16 contributors to the communities that they come 17 back to in the form of working with young people 18 to -- in terms of prevention, working with 19 juveniles to help steer young people from the 20 area of crime because they know what the 21 consequences are better than anyone else. They 22 make tremendous contributions to their 23 communities, and I can point to them personally, 7636 1 and I would certainly not want to see those 2 people come back to the community and become 3 targets of hostility and anger and fear that is 4 many, many times totally unfounded based on the 5 simple fact that they've been incarcerated, even 6 though they may have been already or be in the 7 process of being rehabilitated. 8 These are human beings and we 9 would hope we could salvage them. Some of them 10 perhaps went astray early in their lives and 11 have turned around and can do positive things 12 and be positive contributors. 13 So I think this is a very -- it's 14 the very wrong thing to do simply because it 15 does not address the problem of a few people who 16 -- who come out and for whom there is no -- no 17 change in their behavior, but everybody has to 18 suffer based on this legislation equally to 19 those few, and that is very unfortunate. I 20 think it throws away the possibility of a lot of 21 people being able to redeem their lives. 22 Certainly, Mr. President, I would 23 ask my colleagues to vote against this 7637 1 legislation because it permanently prejudices 2 society against people who have already paid 3 most of the time and often have been, in 4 addition, rehabilitated individuals. 5 I think it's a very bad bill, 6 Senator Saland, and I know that you -- while you 7 certainly want to protect your constituents, I 8 also am concerned about the safety of my 9 constituents, but I can tell you that some of my 10 constituents are these very people, and they 11 have become contributing people in my district 12 to other constituents, and I don't think that I 13 would like to see them tarnished in this way and 14 left without the capacity to reintegrate and be 15 rehabilitated fully. 16 So I'm going to vote no against 17 this legislation, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 19 Senator Abate. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 23 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 7638 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 2 President, there is a meeting of the Small 3 Business Task Force right now, 2:00 p.m., in 123 4 of the Capitol, Room 123 of this building. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: There 6 will be an immediate meeting of the Small 7 Business Task Force in Room 123 of the Capitol. 8 Senator Abate. 9 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Mr. 10 President, would Senator Saland yield to a 11 question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 13 Senator Saland, would you yield? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 17 Senator Saland yields. 18 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, I have 19 not made up my mind yet on this legislation, so 20 I really ask these questions in -- with an open 21 mind seeking good answers, but I'm concerned. 22 As you know, Megan's Law was passed last year 23 and it's now involved in the courts. There have 7639 1 been some constitutional issues - 2 SENATOR SALAND: May I ask you 3 just to yield for one second. Could I just -- a 4 little bit of noise in this general area is 5 making it hard for me to hear Senator Abate. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7 Senator Saland, you're correct. If we could 8 please take our conversations out of the chamber 9 and please listen to the debate. My apologies. 10 Thank you. 11 Senator Abate. 12 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Megan's 13 Law, as we're all aware, passed and it's now 14 involved in the courts. There's some 15 constitutional issues raised. One was around 16 retroactivity. The other was around some due 17 process issues. I apologize. I have not had 18 the opportunity to study the bill, but have you 19 addressed the issues that are now being 20 constitutionally raised in that court case? 21 SENATOR SALAND: I have not read 22 the decision, only the media accounts, and I 23 understood -- my understanding of the media 7640 1 accounts was that the federal court decision in 2 Megan's Law was based primarily on the 3 retroactivity application. The quotes I saw 4 attributable to the judge basically said that he 5 didn't have any problems with its prospective 6 application but the retroactive application 7 preceding the either January 21st or January 8 29th -- January 19th effective date, whichever 9 it was, he felt was unconstitutional. We have 10 not endeavored to create any retroactive 11 application. This is purely prospective. 12 SENATOR ABATE: My other concern 13 is how broadly it's crafted. I absolutely agree 14 with you around persistent violent offenders. 15 My concern is around the second time violent 16 offenders. 17 Let me give you a situation. 18 Someone is involved in drug activity. Within 19 ten years, they're involved with two 20 burglaries. No injury occurs in each of these. 21 They are home burglaries. That qualifies as a 22 violent felon. The person has been involved in 23 drugs. They do their second prison time. 7641 1 They're off drugs. I'm not making -- I'm not 2 condoning the actions, but is that the kind of 3 crime we want to alarm the community around this 4 particular individual that never, ever 5 physically injured an individual. They've been 6 a nuisance, don't condone their activity, but 7 when you craft the law as broadly as you've 8 done, you now envelop some of these other people 9 that are really involved in drug-related 10 activity, never seriously assaulted people, not 11 sexual offenders, et cetera. Is it just too 12 broadly crafted? That's one of my concerns. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Two things. 14 Number one, let me just go back to my response 15 to your prior question and let me just, for 16 purposes of your comments about Megan's Law, 17 tell you and again qualify by saying I haven't 18 read the decision. 19 I was troubled by that particular 20 decision to the extent that that decision seemed 21 to be dealing with what was a notification 22 statute, not intending to be a punitive or 23 additional punishment statute as the judge seen 7642 1 -- not seen -- as the judge indicated in his 2 opinion that he believed it to be, and tying 3 that back into this, this is not an additional 4 punishment statute but a notification statute. 5 If you're saying that the burglary -- a burglary 6 in which there is no injury should not be 7 treated as a -- as a violent -- and for some - 8 under some circumstances, certainly certain 9 burglaries, if not all -- and again, I apologize 10 as I did earlier to, I believe it was Senator 11 Montgomery. I don't have my Penal Law here, but 12 I believe certainly some, if not all 13 burglaries - 14 SENATOR ABATE: Partial 15 burglaries are not considered violent. 16 SENATOR SALAND: And I -- if 17 someone has been a repeat violent offender and 18 we have defined for purposes of statute what 19 constitutes violent felonies, there was a 20 decision that was made within the wisdom of this 21 house, the other house and the Governor that 22 that -- these particular acts were, quote 23 unquote, "violent", and unless we're going to 7643 1 decide that those are not violent or any longer 2 should be considered violent, I see no reason 3 why there should be an exception carved out for 4 purposes of the notification required under the 5 statute. 6 SENATOR ABATE: But if, in fact, 7 the goal is to safeguard the community against 8 people that are really going to create the 9 greatest danger to that community -- and those 10 are people that are going to either commit 11 sexual offenses or physically harm individuals, 12 whether that's murder or serious assaults or 13 guns or whatever -- that -- that intent is not 14 covered by this. We could do that explicitly by 15 outlying certain people who are convicted by the 16 following offenses. That could be done and also 17 go on to deal with persistent violent 18 offenders. 19 So there is a possibility of 20 crafting this bill more narrowly but also taking 21 care of the situation that you faced in your 22 community. 23 SENATOR SALAND: You're 7644 1 suggesting then that the list of violent 2 felonies be refined - 3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 4 SENATOR SALAND: -- in some 5 fashion as to determine which are more violent. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 7 SENATOR SALAND: And those are 8 the ones you would be more comfortable with 9 being provided as, in effect, the touchstones 10 for the notice required here. 11 SENATOR ABATE: And I hope that 12 if this is a one-house bill this year, that you 13 would take that under advisement to narrow the 14 application because I think, in fact, that's 15 what you're intending in any event. I may be 16 wrong. 17 There's another -- would -- Mr. 18 President, would Senator Saland continue to 19 yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 21 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 7645 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR ABATE: There's another 4 concern. I have always been an advocate for 5 registry within law enforcement and that if 6 someone leaves the jurisdiction or changes their 7 address, there should be a penalty if they don't 8 notify law enforcement about their relocation. 9 I don't know under this bill what it means for 10 community notification, and if a community gets 11 notified, who else gets notified in the general 12 public? Could you explain that to me. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Well, currently 14 the law provides in certain instances for notice 15 to the county sheriff or the chief law 16 enforcement officer of - 17 SENATOR ABATE: Which I 18 absolutely support. It's the law, and I support 19 that. 20 SENATOR SALAND: What is lacking, 21 however, is notice specifically to communities, 22 to -- and in this bill proposes that the chief 23 executive officer of a community would be 7646 1 noticed. So that in some of the smaller towns 2 such as those that I represent, the town 3 supervisor would be advised of the release into 4 a community of someone who is either a 5 persistent or persistent violent or repeat 6 violent felon, and that in no way, shape or form 7 compromises the existing law with regard to 8 notice to the -- to a county sheriff, and I'm 9 assuming, although I don't know this to be the 10 case, it would probably be the police 11 commissioner of the city of New York. 12 SENATOR ABATE: And, Senator 13 Saland, what do you envision the town supervisor 14 would do upon receiving this information? 15 SENATOR SALAND: Well, this bill 16 provides for that supervisor to provide notice 17 by way of general notice to the community either 18 by publication or posting, that this individual 19 who, again, is either a repeat violent -- a 20 persistent violent or persistent has been 21 released into the community. 22 SENATOR ABATE: Would there -- so 23 would there be an obligation placed upon that 7647 1 town supervisor regardless of whether it was 2 that young person who committed the burglary and 3 no injury occurred compared to someone who has 4 committed two rapes; the same posting would 5 occur regardless of two case histories and two 6 individual sets of crimes, two individual 7 backgrounds, mitigating versus aggravating 8 circumstances? 9 SENATOR SALAND: If the offender 10 was one who had committed either two or three or 11 more violent felonies to fit either the repeat 12 violent or the persistent violent or three or 13 more felonies, again by definition under 14 existing language of the Penal Law, which we do 15 not tamper with one iota, the obligation would 16 be on the supervisor to respond by providing 17 notice. 18 SENATOR ABATE: So in that 19 situation, there would be no discretion given to 20 the chief of police or the town supervisor to 21 determine whether community notification, in 22 fact, was necessary. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Correct. Again, 7648 1 it would be driven by the category which we have 2 defined here. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Right. And the 4 category as you've defined in statute puts that 5 persistent violent offender in the same category 6 as the second-time violent offender. They're 7 treated similarly in terms of the obligation 8 placed on the town supervisor to notify the 9 community. 10 The -- my last question is are 11 there any guidelines set? What are we going to 12 tell -- I understand what -- the intent, but 13 does that mean the town supervisor posts the 14 notification on people's doors, or is it on 15 radio stations, or is it in newspapers? Are we 16 leaving it up to town supervisors to implement 17 this bill in any way they see fit because I 18 don't know -- again, I apologize. I haven't 19 studied the bill. 20 SENATOR SALAND: There is a 21 provision for posting, a provision for release 22 to the media and there is descriptive 23 information regarding the offender that is 7649 1 required to be included in the notice, and that 2 is provided on page 2 of the bill, beginning in 3 line 44 and enumerates several categories that 4 will constitute compliance with notice. 5 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7 Senator Abate, on the bill. 8 SENATOR ABATE: I was sincere 9 because I thought I would vote for this bill. 10 I find that after asking these 11 questions, although I agree with the concept 12 around persistent violent offenders, people that 13 are predators that are being released, there's 14 in many instances a need for community 15 notification. I hope to be able to support this 16 bill the next time it appears before this house. 17 I believe it can become a much 18 better bill, that we could narrow the kinds of 19 offenders who, in fact, are predators and that 20 we have to ensure community notification. I 21 think there needs to be some guidelines 22 available to the town supervisor, what it means 23 for community notification. We don't want to 7650 1 create in every different town another system, 2 create alarm. There's some discretion that 3 needs to be given to law enforcement to 4 determine whether posting should be done in a 5 particular case. I am hoping that this bill 6 will be amended to reflect some of the issues 7 I've raised, and I do look forward in the future 8 to be able to support it. 9 At this point, I believe it's too 10 broadly crafted, too indefinite in terms of what 11 its implication is. Again, I agree with the 12 concept. The devil is in the details, and I 13 think we don't have enough details, I believe 14 to, in fact, satisfy the intent of the sponsor. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read 16 the last section. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 19 Senator Leichter. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Mr. 21 President, I have a great deal of problems with 22 this bill, not just on the details but really 23 with the concept and principles of this bill. 7651 1 When Megan's Law was proposed to 2 this body -- and I was the only one who voted 3 against it, and I may point out that some of the 4 reasons that I gave for voting against it have 5 since been sustained by the courts, and I 6 suspect that this bill similarly would have - 7 and has some constitutional infirmities, but at 8 least in Megan's Law, Senator Saland, there was 9 a superficial and maybe a significant 10 justification in that -- the high rate of 11 recidivism for people who had been guilty of 12 sexual offenses, but there's absolutely no 13 showing of proof in regard to the people covered 14 by your notification bill that they pose a 15 similar risk to the -- to society or the 16 community. 17 However, even if they did -- and 18 that was one of the reasons that I could not 19 support Megan's Law -- is that I don't believe 20 that this sort of notification, one, provides 21 any protection for the community and secondly, 22 that unquestionably, it is a continued 23 punishment, if you will, of the person who has 7652 1 been convicted of a crime. He's paid his 2 punishment. These are, as your bill indicates, 3 people who are -- have committed serious 4 crimes. Certainly it's appropriate to let the 5 police know. It's appropriate if they're on 6 parole or to have some sort of supervision, but 7 to spread that information throughout the 8 community makes it impossible for these people 9 to live in any community and it stigmatizes 10 them. In a sense, it makes impossible the very 11 thing that I would think you would want, that 12 certainly I want, which is that hopefully these 13 people can be incorporated back into society as 14 contributing persons and that they will no 15 longer be a threat to society. 16 I think your bill really has the 17 effect of putting these people beyond the pale 18 of society which makes it much more likely that 19 they're going to be a threat, that they may 20 commit other crimes, commit anti-social 21 behavior. 22 So I don't think that we do 23 anything by this bill to protect society. I 7653 1 think that what we do is further vent our 2 frustration, our anger, if you will, at people 3 who commit crimes. If you think certain 4 criminals are not spending -- because they are a 5 threat to society and for a reason of protection 6 they need longer prison sentences -- and I know 7 you've put forth many bills like that -- maybe 8 that is a way to go. I may disagree with you in 9 a number of instances, but I can at least 10 understand the rationale, but here I think the 11 rationale is seriously flawed. 12 I think we're going down a very 13 treacherous path with this sort of legislation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 17 act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 7654 1 Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I'll be 3 very, very brief. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 5 Senator Gold to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR GOLD: And with great 7 respect for Senator Saland who I think so highly 8 of -- I think he's one of the few people who may 9 even be able to give us some air in this chamber 10 today, but I think that -- no, the hot air 11 you're providing -- don't start. 12 Mr. President, I understand where 13 Senator Saland is coming from and where he wants 14 to go. I think Senator Abate hit it right on 15 the head that it's an area where getting too 16 broad could be very, very dangerous and while I 17 could support perhaps legislation in this field 18 if it was crafted a little tighter, with my 19 deepest regrets to my dear friend, I vote in the 20 negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 22 Results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7655 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1173 are 2 Senators Abate, Gold, Leichter, Marchi, Mendez, 3 Montgomery, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith and 4 Waldon. Ayes 47, nays 10. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print - 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: One second. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 11 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 13 Chairman, can we go back to Calendar 1002. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Take 15 up Calendar Number 1002. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1002, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 19 5776-C, an act to amend the Executive Law, in 20 relation to emergency medical services. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7656 1 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: An 4 explanation has been asked for by Senator 5 Leichter. 6 Senator Marcellino. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 8 President. This bill furnishes the -- this bill 9 seeks to promote the safety and the welfare of 10 those with special needs by creating a voluntary 11 registry of disabled persons. The furnishing of 12 assistance during an emergency evacuation to 13 those individuals with special needs is a matter 14 of vital concern to us all. Such a registry 15 would allow county executives in the state to 16 identify in case of an emergency evacuation 17 those individuals in need of assistance and the 18 type of assistance they would need so that they 19 might facilitate the development of an 20 operational response plan in the case of an 21 emergency situation such as a major storm, a 22 bomb situation and the like. The provision of 23 safe and effective evacuation in these 7657 1 situations with those of special needs to all of 2 us is, as I said earlier, a vital necessity. 3 This plan is voluntary. It is 4 not a mandate on local government. It doesn't 5 require local governments to accept this thing. 6 We urge they do so and signing on to this 7 particular registry is voluntary as well. We do 8 not require people to sign on. It is a 9 voluntary thing all the way around. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 if Senator Marcellino would yield for a 14 question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: 16 Senator Marcellino, would you yield? 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Be my 18 pleasure. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DiCARLO: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: In previous 22 prints of the bill, Senator, there was some 23 advocacy groups that were opposed to the 7658 1 legislation dealing for feeling -- feeling that 2 it might create somewhat of a stigma, and the 3 disability advocacy groups that I've checked 4 with do not seem to have a problem with this 5 legislation and so, you know, there really isn't 6 a major problem with it. However, whenever 7 you're keeping a registry, I just think that it 8 is something that we have to be mindful of that 9 registries in the past have been very dangerous 10 and particularly registries of the disabled. 11 Now, I happen to be legally 12 blind. That is the legal, or at least the 13 specific classification of visual disability 14 that I suffer from, but we do not have a legal 15 definition for ambulatory ability. We don't 16 have a legal definition of hearing impaired 17 ness. The reason is because there was a belief 18 that in English society that people who were 19 blind were victims of social diseases and, 20 therefore, they registered them all. 21 Now, that's certainly not the 22 intent of this legislation, but I'm just saying 23 historically speaking, there is certainly some 7659 1 data in which the registry is somewhat misused 2 at different times and while we still have 3 significant discrimination of people who have 4 physical challenges and disabilities, it's just 5 something I think we need to be mindful of. 6 I'm glad to see that the -- that 7 the legislation is voluntary on the part of the 8 counties that would -- that would undertake it, 9 but I think it's just something that needs to be 10 just understood even by those who choose to, 11 because even though the intent is to provide 12 assistance and public safety during -- during 13 any kind of an emergency, I hope that it will 14 just be restricted to emergencies. 15 In other words, your bill is 16 fine, but I'm hoping that it will not be the 17 catalyst for any other attempts to -- just for 18 the purpose of government scrutiny, to register 19 or keep lists or keep any kind of records of 20 individuals except where we're keeping records 21 of the entire society. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 23 President. 7660 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 2 Marcellino. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 4 President, through you. Senator Paterson, I 5 just wanted to point out that we concur that 6 this list should not be used for general use. 7 It is to be kept confidential information in 8 it. We're not looking to promote the fact to 9 people in the community who might try to do harm 10 or to do injury or take advantage of people with 11 disabilities information where they can be found 12 easily. 13 We're concerned -- and the reason 14 and genesis of the bill was that it came out of 15 the storm people where we've had major 16 hurricanes and major storms on the east coast 17 and people with disabilities have been found 18 after the fact and they were isolated and no one 19 knew they were there. 20 So we're trying to develop a 21 system, as I said before, a voluntary one, which 22 is why we've gone through "C" prints -- from an 23 "A" to a "C" print to try to address many of 7661 1 the concerns of groups and as many as we could 2 we have addressed in the time we had. We concur 3 that it should be voluntary. It should not be 4 misused. We're not looking to make this as a 5 first step, although you have eliminated five 6 more bills in my portfolio. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 8 the last section. 9 Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 11 President, would the sponsor yield to a 12 question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 14 Senator, do you yield to Senator Dollinger? 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Yes, 17 the Senator yields. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 As I understand it, this bill 21 gives the power to create this registry to the 22 county executive alone. Why wouldn't the county 23 legislature be a part of the decision to make 7662 1 this registry available? 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Generally, 3 the administrative function would be referred to 4 the administrator or the chief executive officer 5 of a particular county. To maintain a registry, 6 he would be involved or she would be involved in 7 the maintenance and the development of a 8 disaster preparedness plan. This information 9 would be used to make that plan more effective, 10 and generally the responsibility to develop 11 these plans is on the executive branch, not the 12 legislative branch even at a county level. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 14 you, Mr. President, if Senator Marcellino would 15 yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 17 Dollinger, Senator Marcellino, would you yield 18 to another question? 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Certainly I 20 would. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, this 22 bill also has an administrative cost attached to 23 it, that is, there is some cost to prepare these 7663 1 plans, to maintain the registry, and I'll agree, 2 Senator, it may not be significant, but since 3 it's going to involve the spending of local tax 4 dollars to fund -- there's no state appropria 5 tion to do this -- shouldn't the county 6 legislature which has authority over the budget 7 be a part of -- be a partner with the county 8 executive in making these decisions? 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: To my 10 knowledge, Senator, most -- through you, Mr. 11 President -- that most counties prepare these - 12 these evacuation plans now. The plans are in 13 operation and are in existence. We're just 14 suggesting that they add a voluntary list. 15 We're not telling them to go door to door and 16 knock on doors. There's many ways to do this 17 that would not cost the county money. All they 18 have to do -- in this case, they could advertise 19 the availability, the existence of a list when 20 they post their normal advertisements for the 21 meetings and the like. So it wouldn't an 22 additional cost. It would be an extra line in 23 an ad or a flyer that is produced by the county 7664 1 in the normal order of doing business. So extra 2 money wouldn't be -- we feel, not a significant 3 amount under any circumstances. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7 Dollinger on the bill. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with 9 the sponsor that this is probably a minimal cost 10 and I'm going to vote in favor of this bill, but 11 I would urge, I guess, that the -- the intention 12 of the bill is to bring the county as an entity 13 into the development of these plans for the 14 disabled, and I would suggest -- at least based 15 on my experience in the county, although it was 16 four years ago -- that we did have a disaster 17 plan, a preparedness plan, but it was created 18 pursuant to county legislation over which the 19 Legislature had a role and that the plan was 20 actually adopted by the Legislature on a 21 periodic basis. So the disaster preparedness 22 plan, the emergency preparedness plan was all a 23 part of the legislative function. 7665 1 And I would just urge the sponsor 2 if this bill some day comes back to us, to not 3 only give the county executive the power, but 4 give the county legislature the approval power 5 over the decision to establish the registry. 6 That may also give the county legislature an 7 opportunity to determine the needs of its own 8 individual population through the holding of a 9 public hearing which usually accompanies the 10 introduction of the kind of ordinances or 11 changes in the county charter that are required 12 to produce this kind of registry. 13 It would create the opportunity 14 for more local input. It would bring the 15 legislative branch on board, and it just seems 16 to me that's the kind of cooperation between 17 legislative and executive that we ought to be 18 fostering in these kinds of local bills. 19 So I add that suggestion. I 20 think from my perspective this bill tries to do 21 a good thing, and my hope is that perhaps with a 22 change at same later time it will actually get 23 there and accomplish that. 7666 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 2 Leichter, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 4 on the bill, and I - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 6 Leichter, on the bill. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- I will be 8 asking also Senator Marcellino to yield. You 9 know, clearly, this is a desirable goal that 10 Senator Marcellino addresses by this bill. 11 I'm somewhat perplexed, though, 12 why we make this a voluntary program. I mean, 13 probably we ought to tell every county should 14 have these programs in place. So I'm going to 15 ask Senator Marcellino if he would yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 17 Marcellino, will you yield to Senator Leichter? 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I would 19 yield to Senator Leichter at any time, sir. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 21 Senator, he said he would yield to you. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 23 He's the good chairman of the committee of which 7667 1 I have the honor to serve as a ranking Minority 2 member. So, thank you, Senator Marcellino. 3 Let me ask you, I mean, you start 4 off in sort of an exhortation. Generally we 5 don't exhort local levels of government to do 6 this or that because it doesn't really mean very 7 much. So why don't we say that each of them 8 shall prepare a plan and make it be subject to 9 the approval of the appropriate state agency 10 that deals with emergencies, and so on? 11 Wouldn't that -- wouldn't that be a better way 12 to go? 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, we 14 looked at this plan and we looked at that very 15 question you're raising, and one of the things 16 we did is we recognized that counties are 17 different, that every county has its own unique 18 circumstances, its own unique physical 19 situations and its own unique population. There 20 is no way to know the number of disabled persons 21 that may or may not exist or live within a 22 county's borders. So we felt the best way to 23 deal with this, not wanting to impose unfunded 7668 1 mandates on counties -- because you know how 2 this side of the aisle feels about that and I'm 3 sure you agree -- we felt -- and I don't mean to 4 be facetious, but we felt it would be best left 5 up to the counties on a voluntary basis as to 6 whether or not they wish to comply or join in on 7 this situation, rather than forcing them to jump 8 into a situation that may not be that 9 significant a situation in their -- in their 10 case. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 12 if Senator Marcellino would yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 14 Senator, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, sir. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 17 agree with you that it's probably unwise for 18 this Legislature to set forth in detail how that 19 -- plans should be established and the records 20 maintained, and so on -- although I think it's 21 appropriate for us to do as you do in your bill, 22 say that the records are confidential, but I 23 wasn't suggesting that we do that. I was 7669 1 suggesting that we say that each shall have a 2 plan, that they ought to submit it to the - 3 whatever the state agency is that handles 4 emergencies, and so on. I forget the exact 5 name, but we have it. 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: New York 7 State Emergency Management Office. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. And 9 that office then would say, Yeah, that's a good 10 plan. That will accomplish the purpose because 11 they understand this and they would allow for 12 each county to tailor a plan based on the nature 13 and character of the county's population, its 14 geographic size, and so on. 15 Now, why don't we do it that 16 way? 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, I'll 18 just go back to what I said, Senator. We simply 19 decided that it would be better to make it 20 voluntary. I concur with you that I think every 21 county should have an emergency preparedness 22 plan. I think every county should have a 23 registry of disabled persons so that they can be 7670 1 taken care of in case of need and in an 2 emergency situation, such as bombings, 3 explosions, storms and earthquakes and the like 4 -- elections, yes -- a nudge, Okay? I know I 5 don't have to translate that for you. The 6 stenographer will probably have a hard time 7 copying that one down, but the -- I will state 8 that a voluntary way the best way rather than 9 going down and hammering each county into 10 submission. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 12 if Senator Marcellino - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 14 Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- would be 16 good enough to continue to yield. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: 19 Senator, will you continue? 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I will. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He will 22 be honored to, sir. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 7671 1 I'm also concerned about 2 paragraph 6, starting on line 27 on page 2, 3 where you immunize counties from any claims 4 where there's a good faith exercise or 5 performance in good faith. My concern is I can 6 see that maybe we want to indemnify them in the 7 event there's negligence, garden variety sort of 8 negligence, but this seems to be written very, 9 very broadly. It might even immunize them if 10 there was gross negligence, and I think at that 11 point, it would seem to me that we're defeating 12 the purpose of requiring the counties to do this 13 in such a manner that they achieve the goal and 14 aim that you have in mind. 15 Do I read it correctly when I say 16 that you immunize them by claims based on gross 17 negligence? 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Not being a 19 lawyer, sir, I wouldn't even attempt to get into 20 a legal debate with you because I'm not 21 qualified to, but it is my understanding that 22 the language "good faith effort" is the key to 23 it all. It does not -- and that would, I think, 7672 1 bring in -- if there was gross negligence, I 2 don't think that would be described as a good 3 faith effort to do that. We're only trying to 4 say that if there are a large number of people 5 here on the listing and by some chance one's 6 missed in a pickup, although everybody made a 7 good shot at it or made a good effort, the 8 county should not be held liable for it. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 11 Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 13 Marcellino, you may -- I'm a lawyer and you may 14 well be right that the good faith language then 15 excludes gross negligence because by definition 16 if you act in gross negligence, you could not be 17 acting in good faith. I'm not sure. Let me 18 just -- for one moment, I want to look at the 19 memorandum in opposition by the Trial Lawyers. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. On the 21 bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 23 Leichter, on the bill. 7673 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm going to 2 support the bill, but I think that Senator 3 Marcellino really points out a goal which is so 4 important. I think he says, Wait a second. We 5 need to tell the counties that it's important 6 that they have this registry, that they have 7 this plan, deal with the same people, and I 8 think all of us are aware of Senator 9 Marcellino's goals, but then, you know, to leave 10 it voluntary as this bill does, it's really half 11 a loaf because I can see that a lot of counties 12 that are already financial strapped, and so on, 13 obviously there's going to be some cost in doing 14 this. They're going to say, Well, we can't do 15 it. 16 Now, Senator Marcellino, you say, 17 Well, we don't want to impose unfunded 18 mandates. Well, let's make it a funded mandate. 19 It wouldn't involve that much money. It's 20 certainly important enough to help those of our 21 citizens who are disabled and maybe we can 22 provide the assistance to the counties so they 23 could make this plan. 7674 1 I'm going to support it because I 2 guess half a loaf is better than nothing, but 3 I'd love to see in this area a full loaf because 4 I think it's important enough. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 6 Secretary will read the last -- Senator 7 Marcellino. 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah. Just 9 a point. It was the -- my worthy assistant who 10 did most of the work, as is typical, informs me 11 that the words "good faith effort" came from the 12 Trial Lawyers Association and they are happy 13 with the bill at this point in time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 1, 22 Senator Libous recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 7675 1 Marcellino. 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 3 President. Could we take up Senator Maziarz' 4 bill, Calendar Number 1441 at this point. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 6 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1441. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1441, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 6395, an 9 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 10 multiple employer welfare arrangements. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Maziarz, an explanation is asked for. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Multiple employer arrangements, 16 when properly managed, are often the only 17 vehicle for small- and medium-sized employers to 18 offer group health insurance at an affordable 19 cost. 20 This legislation defines multiple 21 employer welfare arrangements, commonly referred 22 to as MEWAs, and brings it within the purview of 23 the state regulation under Article 44 of the 7676 1 Insurance Law. If enacted, MEWAs would have to 2 file financial reports with the Department of 3 Insurance, and it would enable the Department of 4 Insurance to handle any complaints lodged 5 against it. 6 At present, MEWAs are largely 7 unregulated by the state. These arrangements 8 had been covered under the federal ERISA Law, 9 Employee Retirement Income Security Act and, 10 therefore, exempted from state regulation. 11 Because of several problems, the federal 12 government decided to allow states to invoke 13 oversight of MEWAs. This legislation would 14 accomplish that goal of oversight without, Mr. 15 President, being unduly burdensome. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 17 Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 19 if Senator Maziarz would yield for a question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 21 Maziarz, do you yield for a question from 22 Senator Paterson? 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Certainly, Mr. 7677 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Yes, he 3 does, sir. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 5 Senator. 6 Senator, the legislation is in an 7 area that I think all of us would agree needs 8 regulation, needs some kind of structure, but 9 I'm just asking, how we can pass this legisla 10 tion that, from my vantage point, seems to 11 actually contradict what the ERISA Law is? 12 In other words, since the federal 13 government has specifically restricted us from 14 interfering in this kind of joint or collective 15 insurance that -- welfare type arrangements that 16 employees engage in, how can we start to 17 regulate it without consulting with our federal 18 representatives and having them somewhat preempt 19 the federal statute? 20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Actually, we 21 have done that, Senator, and the federal 22 government has decided to allow the states to 23 invoke oversight of MEWAs; and, actually, at 7678 1 this point, New York is one of only a few states 2 that have not. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 6 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Marcellino, what is your 14 wishes, sir? 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 16 President, go back to the regular order of the 17 calendar, sir. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Regular 19 order, controversial calendar, Number 1228. 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 23 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law. 7679 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 2 Stafford. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Lay it aside 4 temporarily. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Lay 6 that bill aside temporarily. 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 9 1252, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5500A, an 10 act to enact the Criminal Justice Omnibus Act of 11 1996. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator 13 Volker will be here instantly if we can just - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: All 15 right. We will just pause for a moment because 16 Senator Volker will be here. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Here is 18 Senator Volker now. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 20 Volker has just arrived. 21 Senator Volker, an explanation 22 has been asked of you, sir, Calendar 1252. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Thank you. I 7680 1 apologize. I misinterpreted the time element. 2 Let me just say, Mr. President, 3 that if -- and I hesitate to bring in the 4 campaign, but I think all of us are political 5 animals. If you want to say during the campaign 6 that you voted for legislation that basically 7 reformed, changed virtually every major problem 8 -- when I say "major problem," I mean the 9 really very serious problems that have been 10 discussed over the last couple of years in 11 criminal justice, then I would suggest you vote 12 for this bill, because this bill has just about 13 every one of what is considered to be some of 14 the serious problems. 15 You may not like the way they are 16 remedied but this bill deals with a whole series 17 of major criminal justice areas in what would be 18 called a tough and firm way. Much of what is in 19 the Governor's budget substantively is, frankly, 20 in this bill, which is known as the Omnibus 21 Crime Act of 1996. 22 This bill originally -- and one 23 of my colleagues here pointed out to me that one 7681 1 thing that is not in here relates -- from the 2 budget -- which is the first felony offender 3 restrictive sentences. That's not in here 4 because this bill was originally drafted in 5 1995, and the '96 budget is the budget that had 6 those sentencing provisions in it. 7 Let me just give you a quick 8 rundown of some of the areas that are in this 9 bill. 10 Number one, it is a thorough 11 redrafting of the juvenile statutes, including 12 the fact that with this bill virtually all major 13 felonies would mean that juveniles would have to 14 be fingerprinted. This bill does provide for 15 the transfer of 16-, 17-year-olds from youth 16 facilities to DOCS. This bill provides for a 17 series of upgrades, and one of the things that 18 it would do is that if you have an individual 19 who is adjudged a youthful offender but within 20 five years commits a serious felony, then the 21 youthful offender status would not apply in 22 keeping that person from becoming a second 23 felony offender. In other words, that youthful 7682 1 offender status would effectively be revoked; 2 and if in the event that it would have been a 3 predicate felony had that person not been 4 adjudged a youthful offender, then under this 5 statute, the person would be adjudged a second 6 felony offender and would have to suffer the 7 consequences. 8 Another major part of this bill 9 is that there were two decisions, Ranghelle and 10 O'Doherty, that dramatically limited prosecution 11 in the discovery areas. This bill deals with 12 both those cases in an attempt to, I think, deal 13 in a more fair way with the problems created by 14 those cases. 15 Also, those of you who have had a 16 lot of pressure on the gun issue, this bill 17 presents one of the most thorough upgrades of 18 weapons penalties, probably the most thorough 19 that we have brought before this floor, and 20 provides dramatic upgrades for the illegal sale 21 of firearms. 22 Also, in this bill is a dramatic 23 upgrading of assault statutes, something which 7683 1 is one of highest priorities of the district 2 attorneys of this state. In fact, I think it's 3 their highest priority, which set up -- instead 4 of the present assault one, two and three 5 statutes, it would set up a fourth provision. 6 In effect, what happens is that the entire 7 assault area is upgraded so instead of an 8 assault one being a "C" felony, it becomes a "B" 9 felony and then goes on down from there to an 10 "A" misdemeanor, which the present assault 11 third is. 12 Let me also say that there is a 13 provision in this bill that, I think, many 14 people have forgotten about that relates to bias 15 crime, and what it is is that years ago, when we 16 had -- we had passed in this house a number of 17 years ago a bias crime bill that the Assembly 18 didn't want to deal with. That bill dealt, in 19 part, with gang violence. Most of the major 20 bias crimes are gang violence crimes. In 21 Section 19, we redefine the felony as a Class - 22 or assault 1st as a Class B felony, but what we 23 also do is find that we upgrade the penalties 7684 1 dramatically, where a person is found guilty of 2 "assault with intent to cause serious physical 3 injury to another or third person and when aided 4 by two or more persons actually present," and we 5 have several of those provisions in there that 6 provides for severe additional penalties where 7 there is a number of people involved. 8 So this bill is a conglomeration, 9 as I say, of various provisions to upgrade the 10 criminal justice system and deal with many of 11 the problems that have occurred, not just 12 through court decisions but also because of a 13 realization that we have had some difficulty in 14 dealing with certain crime areas because of the 15 modern trend that has occurred throughout the 16 state of New York. 17 And that is basically the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 33. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 23 Waldon, why do you rise? 7685 1 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, I would 2 like to know if the gentleman would yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 4 Volker, would you yield to Senator Waldon? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He will 7 yield, sir. 8 SENATOR WALDON: I hesitated, Mr. 9 President, in standing, and to Senator Volker, 10 because I had been advised that our very capable 11 leader on the floor from the village of Harlem, 12 Senator David Paterson, would initiate the 13 debate, but being that he has not taken that 14 stance, I will ask a couple of questions, if I 15 may. 16 I would like to, Senator Volker, 17 just walk through a maze for a moment or two to 18 make a point, and I would appreciate it if you 19 would indulge me. I know that you are most 20 capable of responding to these questions. 21 I have some information in front 22 of me which speaks to the very sobering fact 23 that the highest rate of incarceration per 7686 1 100,000 people in the world occurs in our great 2 country. In fact, the figures I have show that 3 for the United States, it's about 426 per 4 100,000; for South Africa, it's 333 per 100,000; 5 for the Soviet Union, it's 268 per 100,000; 6 hungary, 196; Malaysia 126; Northern Ireland, 7 120; Hong Kong, 118; Poland, 106; New Zealand, 8 100; United Kingdom, 97, et cetera, et cetera. 9 And so I ask the question. Does 10 increasing the severity of punishment, does 11 removing teenagers to adult prisons, does 12 intensifying the penalty for those who are 13 youthful offenders and taking away the 14 discretion of the judge to make an individual 15 determination based upon the facts given to him 16 in court have any saving grace for our country 17 in terms of actually rehabilitating and/or 18 improving the human condition? And I will get 19 around the barn in just a moment. If putting 20 people in prison has any salutary effect on the 21 commission of crime which is the cause of their 22 being there, then, after we put them there, 23 somehow many of them would not return if the 7687 1 prison system worked. 2 So my question is, what we're 3 doing with this modification of what the 4 Governor had originally proposed, is it going to 5 help us in terms of the reduction of crime and 6 the reduction of our inmate prison population? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 8 Volker. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 10 SENATOR WALDON: You were too 11 quick for me that time, Dale. I wasn't prepared 12 for that. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Read 14 the last section. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: I was trying to 16 give a John Calandra answer. Senator Calandra 17 on this floor one day -- somebody asked a 18 question that lasted for about ten minutes; and 19 when he was done, he looked at him and said, 20 "Right," and sat down. 21 Obviously, this is a very 22 debatable question. I think it does, and I am 23 totally convinced of it. 7688 1 And let me just tell you about 2 some of those figures that are a little 3 deceiving, though. I do know that I have seen 4 those numbers about the numbers of people that 5 are in prison. Of course, you have to realize 6 something. The Russian law enforcement system, 7 some would say, is not very good, so that the 8 crime rate in Russia probably is far, far higher 9 than it is in this country. In fact, the crime 10 rate in a number of countries almost certainly 11 is. 12 We have a lot of law enforcement 13 systems here, and we have a very intricate 14 system that probably apprehends people at a much 15 greater rate than most of these countries do. 16 Now, some people would argue that some of these 17 countries are a lot tougher than we are, and I 18 think you know what I'm talking about. Systems 19 in India and various -- have different ways of 20 punishing people, some extremely severe, some 21 would argue draconian and beyond what we are 22 willing to do in this country. 23 Let me just point out a couple of 7689 1 things. First of all, the crime rate in this 2 entire country is declining, has been for some 3 time, thankfully, and I can give you some 4 reasons. I don't believe, by the way, it's just 5 because of incarceration, but I think that's 6 part of it. I think the drug culture is 7 beginning to fade slowly, and I think it has 8 been for some years. A lot of the people who 9 predicted the enormous increase in youth crime 10 are still predicting it even though the numbers, 11 to a certain extent, are very questionable, very 12 honestly, but it's hard for them to deal with 13 it. 14 I can only tell you a couple of 15 things. When I was in law enforcement, as you 16 were, we used to say, if you could lock up a 17 good percentage of the professional burglars in 18 this state, that the burglary rate would 19 decline. It's estimated now that we have about 20 65 to 70 percent of the professional burglars in 21 this state locked up for long periods of time. 22 The burglary rate in this state has dropped 23 dramatically during the last decade. 7690 1 One thing I think is not 2 realized, there are certain crimes that have 3 fallen off rather decidedly. Petty burglaries, 4 obviously, there's still a lot of it. 5 Professional burglary, I think, has dropped off 6 dramatically as a crime, and let me give you one 7 other. 8 When I was in law enforcement, my 9 father was here in the Legislature, and the 10 Legislature in its wisdom at the time passed a 11 statute called "unlawful use of a motor 12 vehicle." They dropped the penalty from a 13 felony, from grand larceny to a misdemeanor, 14 because the theory at that time was that, you 15 know, mostly it was young people who were 16 stealing cars and, therefore, you shouldn't 17 treat them in the same way as you treat adults, 18 and so forth. 19 I was out there in the field at 20 the time, the year that statute was passed. The 21 next year the stolen car rate doubled. The next 22 year, it quintupled. Within five years, it had 23 gone up 10 times. It reached an incredible rate 7691 1 during the early '70s that the stolen car rate 2 in this country -- in this state -- I say this 3 state, not this country -- was out of control, 4 and a lot of the southern operations which still 5 exist for chopping up stolen cars began right 6 after we went to "unlawful use of a motor 7 vehicle" and reduced it to a misdemeanor. 8 It's only recently since we have 9 now upgraded the penalties back to grand larceny 10 and we are now locking people up for stealing 11 cars that the stolen car rate has finally begun 12 to decline quite decidedly. I say that because 13 I think there is ample evidence that incarcer 14 ation definitely has its place in society, and 15 that there is -- there is some real evidence 16 that some of the stuff that we're doing -- and I 17 will be the first to tell you that I think that 18 we should do more rehabilitation but I think it 19 is difficult to do, but I think we have an 20 impact with incarceration, and I think that's 21 been proved over the years. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 23 Waldon. 7692 1 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 2 gentleman continue to yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Would 4 you continue to yield, Senator Volker? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: He 7 will, sir. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 Senator Volker, what you really 11 said in your last few remarks is that when we 12 interdict the professional criminal -- the chop 13 shops are obviously professionals. When we 14 interdict the professional burglar, people who 15 go out to Manhasset and move out everything 16 that's of value in a house in a few hours, or 17 perhaps even a few minutes, are professionals, 18 but much of this proposal does not address 19 professionals. 20 For example, let's talk about 21 fingerprinting of juveniles upon arrest for 22 felony -- not conviction, upon arrest. Someone 23 can be arrested and shortly thereafter -- and I 7693 1 have had this happen in my career as a law 2 enforcement officer -- found out that the kids 3 really hadn't done what we thought they had 4 done, but if we're going to fingerprint them, 5 understanding how prosecutors work -- and you 6 know this as well as I -- we now have 7 stigmatized some young child for the rest of his 8 or her life -- mostly it's his life -- because 9 of this proviso. Could we not revisit that and 10 take it out? 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I think 12 I would disagree with you on that. I'm not 13 sure. There's this incredible -- and I 14 understand, by the way, if they are found not 15 guilty, the fingerprints are sealed, and so 16 forth, but I think you and I realize - 17 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, would 18 you please suffer an interruption? 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 20 SENATOR WALDON: In the realm of 21 human experience, I have been with people trying 22 to get their fingerprints back in my district 23 when their children were proven to be very 7694 1 innocent. It is a very difficult, difficult 2 process. It's not something which is automatic; 3 and who are you going to to obtain the 4 fingerprints? The prosecutor, and sometimes it 5 just doesn't work. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: I think that, 7 Senator, in modern society, I think in many 8 ways, it's much easier to do it. I think you 9 know with computers and all the rest of the 10 things that we're dealing with today, I think 11 that once we got into a system whereby juvenile 12 offenders were all fingerprinted, I think it 13 might be much easier to deal with that issue. 14 But let me just say about 15 fingerprinting, I have been fingerprinted I 16 don't know how many times over the years, when I 17 became a police officer, when I worked for the 18 post office. I don't consider fingerprints a 19 stigma at all. I think it's been kind of 20 strange that -- professional people have been 21 fingerprinted for years, in fact, but there 22 seems to be some sort of feeling that because 23 somebody commits a crime that there's some sort 7695 1 of a stigma connected with the prints. 2 It's not the prints that are the 3 problem; it's the crime that's the problem, and, 4 Senator, a big problem in the juvenile area is 5 that a lot of juveniles are wandering around New 6 York City who have committed innumerable crimes 7 and because they are not fingerprinted, they're 8 not able to keep track of them and the crimes 9 have been washed out, and only later did they 10 find out that somebody had been involved in a 11 whole series of crimes that no one knew about; 12 that is, the district attorney in the Bronx is 13 involved in one, the district attorney over 14 here. 15 That's a big problem, because - 16 you talk about professionals, some of these 17 young people are as bad as any professional 18 criminal in the State of New York. We know 19 that. We know we have some people locked up in 20 our system who are 14 and 15 years old who -- as 21 somebody said, the story about them going to the 22 adult system and being corrupted? The problem 23 is not for the young person; the problem in some 7696 1 cases is for the adults because those kids are 2 so tough they are tougher than many of the 3 people in the adult system. 4 I think that we have to face the 5 realities of life, that you have to make some 6 sort of choices, and one of the choices that 7 many people believe you have to make is to make 8 sure that you can properly identify people so 9 that you can weed out the people who need to be 10 taken care of. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LIBOUS: Senator 12 Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, you 14 make some very fine points in regard to the 15 fingerprint process for those who are, in fact, 16 the hardened criminal element. In fact, when we 17 look at some juvenile offenders who have killed 18 four, five and six people, we recognize that 19 they are no longer retrievable in terms of the 20 remainder of society and the remainder of their 21 lives. 22 But, all to often, in New York 23 City I have read in the newspaper and had law 7697 1 enforcement personnel advise me of situations 2 where police have just scooped up large numbers 3 of young black and Latino youth who haven't done 4 anything except to be black and Latino, take 5 them to the precinct, photograph them, and then 6 try to turn them into being informants for the 7 police simply because the police want an 8 extension of themselves to police better, for 9 want of a better way of putting it. 10 I think that's just as egregious 11 as when someone has committed certain acts. 12 Certainly not as egregious as someone who 13 murders a human being, but it sets the wrong 14 tone, and so when I'm questioning whether or not 15 we should fingerprint without exception, that is 16 the kind of concern that I have. 17 But let me cut to the chase. In 18 regard to youthful offender adjudication, is 19 there no reservation in your mind's eye -- by 20 the way, Mr. President, I'm having some 21 difficulty - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: I'm 23 sorry, Senator. May we have some quiet in the 7698 1 house, please. 2 Senator Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. President. 5 Senator Volker, is there no 6 reservation in your mind's eye in regard to 7 usurping judicial discretion in regard to the 8 wild treatment? Meaning, if someone commits a 9 second crime, especially if it is not a violent 10 felony crime, shouldn't the judge be the final 11 arbiter as to what the punishment should be? 12 Shouldn't he be the one who determines that the 13 punishment fits the crime, not it be mandated by 14 what we do with our legislative proposals? 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, let me 16 just say -- and, by the way, it does concern 17 me. I think -- and I was just checking with my 18 counsel here. It is optional on the judge's 19 part; as I understand it, on the prosecutor 20 also, if I'm not mistaken. 21 It says, "It can be considered." 22 What that would mean is, it doesn't necessarily 23 have to be considered, but it could be 7699 1 considered. 2 I think, Senator, it does have 3 some concern. A lot of these things have 4 concern. I must tell you the issue of the 5 transfer of youth of 16- and 17-year-olds to 6 adult facilities is something that a lot of us 7 agonized over. Senator Saland, who is the 8 chairman of the Youth and Families Committee, I 9 think, we discussed this for a long time. 10 I'm afraid that the problems with 11 our youth facilities, especially the older 12 people in our youth facilities, was the thing, I 13 think, that tipped the scales toward making that 14 move from youth facilities to correction 15 facilities. 16 But in regards, I think, to the 17 fingerprinting issue, yes, it is somewhat of a 18 dramatic change. But, Senator, what has 19 happened is that a great many of the young 20 people who have availed themselves of the 21 youthful offenders have been involved in very 22 serious crimes after that, and I guess the 23 question is in many cases as to whether it 7700 1 should be a judgment call as to whether they 2 should be put in a position where if they have 3 erred again -- remember, of course, obviously 4 now they are older because they have already 5 committed a crime, but they are still YOed and, 6 technically, they didn't have to pay for the 7 crime because they weren't technically charged 8 with it. Then, obviously, they didn't learn 9 anything, and now, in most cases, these are 10 pretty serious crimes. 11 I think the determination was 12 made by the people who drafted this bill, the 13 Governor's office, that they should be subjected 14 potentially to some very severe penalties if 15 they commit a similar crime or even a worse 16 crime at a later time. 17 SENATOR WALDON: If I may, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Waldon. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 22 gentleman continue to yield? 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 7701 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Volker, do you continue to yield to 3 Senator Waldon? 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Waldon. 7 SENATOR WALDON: One, Senator 8 Volker, let me thank you again for your candor 9 in responding and helping me to get some 10 thoughts out into the chamber which will, 11 hopefully, cause our colleagues to reflect in 12 making their decision on this issue, on this 13 proposal. 14 Let me preface my last question 15 with this. You are in a better position simply 16 because of your background and fortunately, or 17 unfortunately, so am I having been in the bag, 18 so to speak, of law enforcement. Also, I 19 believe because of your sensitivity as the 20 Chairman of the Codes Committee, you have been 21 to the prisons or at least have had dialogue 22 with people in the prisons and you understand 23 that milieu probably better than all of the 7702 1 people here who are our colleagues, and so you 2 know and I know what really happens in prison. 3 We know what happens with the 4 fish when the new fish arrive. We know who 5 establishes territorial imperatives. We know 6 who becomes subjected to very violent attacks by 7 those who actually run the prisons, from the 8 perspective of the inmates, and so I ask you, 9 understanding that and knowing that, is it going 10 to help us in regard to rehabilitation and, 11 hopefully somewhere down the road, taking a 12 youthful offender and/or a juvenile 16, 17 years 13 of age and giving him an opportunity to be a 14 whole human being, a productive citizen, to 15 transfer him to an adult prison facility? 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, as I 17 told you, it was not without great trepidation 18 that decisions on this issue were made, and this 19 -- in all candor, the provision that is here 20 was not one that came, you know, initially 21 directly from the Governor's office. This was a 22 decision, in fact, that was arrived at by a 23 number of people that I think we would probably 7703 1 have to say -- particularly in this chamber led 2 by Senator Saland and a number of other people, 3 based on the information that we had as regards 4 to what was happening in the youth facilities 5 themselves. 6 By the way, I am well aware - 7 let me just say about our prison system, and I 8 have been in many maximum security prisons and 9 mediums, and so forth, over the years and I know 10 exactly what you are talking about, but I must 11 tell you that I believe that New York's prison 12 system -- not that we don't have some big 13 problems and that we have some gang problems 14 that they have been dealing with, and so forth. 15 New York's prison system, I think, is less 16 dominated by inmate-run operations than, I 17 believe, most any prison system in the country. 18 I mean, obviously, this is a subjective 19 assessment, although there have been some 20 objective assessments done by some outsiders and 21 the model for New York's prison system has been 22 looked at throughout the country, and some of 23 the things we have done have been used in other 7704 1 parts of this country. 2 In fact, I was at a conference 3 here -- I won't get into it here -- a couple 4 months ago where New York was mentioned because 5 what had happened is that then Commissioner 6 Coombe had patterned some of the things he did 7 after another successful state and pointed out 8 how gang violence had been reduced 9 dramatically. 10 Let me say that the proposed 11 transfer as I understood it, and understand it, 12 is not that these young people would be put in 13 an adult facility and just mixed in the general 14 population, but the plan is that they would be 15 separated and segregated, put in the adult 16 facility and under DOCS' direction and 17 observation, and that the plan also would be to 18 provide some additional treatment and oversight, 19 more than the normal correction inmate would 20 have, adult correction inmate. 21 It's not the plan -- as I 22 understood, it was not to mix them in directly 23 with adults but to set up, in effect, areas with 7705 1 these young people under the DOCS aegis. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 3 much, Senator Volker. 4 Mr. President, if I may, on the 5 bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 8 SENATOR WALDON: I must 9 respectfully disagree with some of the things 10 that Senator Volker said, not his responses in 11 entirety. 12 One, he always conducts his 13 business in a gentlemanly -- and in my 14 interactions with him has been extremely candid 15 in responding to query. However, I believe that 16 on its face this proposal is flawed. I believe 17 that there is a danger, no matter how careful 18 DOCS will attempt to be, whenever you mix youth 19 with hardened adult criminals, despite the fact 20 that on occasion one of the youthful offenders 21 will be as violent or more violent than any of 22 the prisoners in our maximum facility. I'm 23 talking about the collective -- I'm talking 7706 1 about the norm not the exception. 2 I believe, also, that taking away 3 judicial discretion in regard to sentencing of 4 anyone, not just youthful offenders, is really a 5 mistake on our part. I believe that what this 6 will do is to exacerbate the number of people 7 who are in our prison system, and I think we can 8 ill afford that because of the limited dollars 9 that we have now. 10 One of the reasons our budget is 11 not completed is that we're not groveling in the 12 sand but we are certainly digging around trying 13 to find sufficient dollars to make it happen, 14 and I don't think we can make it happen today or 15 tomorrow or some years down the road in terms of 16 coming in with a budget on time if we continue 17 to tip the balance in regard to the criminal 18 justice system but especially in regard to 19 DOCS. We cannot continue to build prisons, 20 build prisons, build prisons, and expect to have 21 money left over for such vital services as 22 health care and education. 23 I believe that fingerprinting 7707 1 juveniles is a mistake. There are certain 2 communities in this state where fingerprinting 3 is tantamount to saying that you are ruined for 4 the rest of your life. I was fingerprinted in 5 the service. I was glad to be there. I 6 volunteered. I had a great three years. I left 7 a boy; I came back a man; and I saw the world. 8 I got the G.I. bill; I was educated both at the 9 college level and the law school level. We 10 bought our home. All of that happened because I 11 was aggressive in regard to wanting to be in the 12 service. 13 I was fingerprinted to take my 14 job at the post office, and I sat night after 15 night boxing mail at Peck Slip Station and at 16 Morgan Terminal. I have seen more mail, 17 perhaps, than -- I don't know how long you 18 worked there, Dale, but I boxed a lot of mail. 19 I had the California skein. I don't know if 20 anyone here besides yourself understands what 21 that means, but that's a lot of mail every night 22 to throw up. 23 I was fingerprinted when I became 7708 1 a police officer, naturally. I was investigated 2 to a fare-thee-well when I became the Deputy 3 Commissioner of Human rights. 4 In every stage of my life, 5 fingerprinting has been okay, but I wanted the 6 fingerprints because I wanted the opportunity. 7 But believe me. Believe me, my friends, my 8 colleagues, there are people who when you say 9 their children will be fingerprinted, they have 10 heartbreak, pain and suffering, because in those 11 communities to be fingerprinted means to be 12 labeled a criminal. So I think that is a 13 mistake. 14 Overall, I think that our 15 approach is wrong in trying to be so punitive, 16 in regard to the criminal justice approaches of 17 the state. I think we ought to begin to look at 18 things like true rehabilitation. I think we 19 ought to begin to look at things like 20 medicological/pharmacological settings for those 21 people who have as a predicate offense -- now, 22 that may be a faux pas on my part, a predicate 23 offense -- the alcoholism or drug abuse which 7709 1 got them into trouble in the first place. 2 I believe that one day Senator 3 Volker will come here to this chamber after 4 we've had our committee dialogue and will 5 present something that all of us can support, 6 and I look forward to that date. 7 But, on this date, I cannot 8 support this proposal. I encourage my 9 colleagues to join me, and our mission today is 10 to vote down this proposal. 11 Thank you, Mr. President. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 14 you, Senator Waldon. 15 Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 17 much. 18 Mr. President, this bill creates 19 some problems for me because it is an omnibus 20 bill; and to be very candid, Senator Volker, 21 there are in my humble opinion some very good 22 things in there; and I know there are people on 23 this side who in very many areas I am a natural 7710 1 ally to intellectually, but I do break away in 2 some respects. 3 For example, I believe in the 4 Youthful Offender Program, Senator Waldon, and I 5 believe the purpose of the program is to give 6 somebody an opportunity. We say that if you are 7 below a certain age and you get in trouble, 8 maybe you didn't know better. Let's straighten 9 the youngster out. 10 On the other hand, I put in 11 legislation -- and I'm not ashamed of it - 12 which says that maybe we shouldn't give that YO 13 treatment until the person finishes their 14 sentence. Why? Because there's too many cases 15 where the kid gets in trouble, and before they 16 even finish the sentence they are in trouble 17 again. 18 So what you are doing is you are 19 not giving a break to a youngster who wants to 20 change his or her life. You are postponing the 21 inevitable and that's wrong, in my opinion. 22 So the part of this bill which 23 says that "If you get in trouble again within 7711 1 five years, we are going to count it," does not 2 personally offend me. It doesn't offend me 3 because the purpose of the youthful offender 4 treatment was to give a break and hoping 5 somebody straightens out, not, in my opinion, to 6 give a career criminal one early extra bite. 7 Senator Volker said that he 8 believes incarceration has its place. I also 9 believe rehabilitation has its place, and I 10 think Senator Volker agrees with that. I think 11 it is also naive to believe that everyone who is 12 sent to prison is rehabilitatable. I think it 13 is also naive to say that every program in our 14 prisons is capable of rehabilitating. 15 If you teach somebody how to do 16 work on an automobile that's a 1945 car, don't 17 expect them to become employable fixing 1996 18 intricate machines, and that was part of the 19 experience we found out a number of years ago 20 with some of the programs. There was a program 21 in the prisons where people learned how to fix 22 eyeglasses, how to deal with eyeglasses. That 23 program was so successful, I think the 7712 1 recidivism rate of those individuals lucky 2 enough to get in the program was almost nil. 3 There was one program where we 4 taught people how to operate sewing machines. 5 In other part of the prison, they were learning 6 how to fix them, and the people who were 7 learning how to fix outdated sewing machines, 8 they couldn't even fix the machines that people 9 were learning how to sew on. So all of this 10 fits into the mix. 11 One point I would like to make, 12 and I think it's rather timely. We have been 13 dealing in the last few days on issues, and we 14 know what the problem is, and we're searching 15 for solutions. Senator Volker's bill before us 16 today, Senator Stafford, is searching for 17 solutions. 18 A few years ago in May, there was 19 a publicized case of an individual with a long 20 arrest record who was arrested in Brooklyn for 21 sodomy, attempted rape, robbery, et cetera, et 22 cetera, and the individual had been put out on 23 parole -- and I believe this happened on parole 7713 1 -- and the local district attorney in Brooklyn 2 was very critical of the parole board and others 3 in that case. 4 I'm going to take, if you don't 5 mind, about four or five minutes and explain 6 that case, and then you decide in this case, 7 which is all too typical, who let society down. 8 December 30, 1977, the first 9 arrest -- reckless endangerment, resisting 10 arrest, possession of stolen property, 11 unauthorized use of a vehicle and criminal 12 impersonation. 13 In June of '78, about six months 14 later, the individual pleaded guilty to 15 attempted petty larceny and received a one-year 16 probation. That was a guilty plea negotiated 17 with the district attorney's office, the only 18 way he can do that, and then the judge went 19 along with the plea bargain, one-year probation, 20 and the date was June 16, 1978. 21 July 11th, three weeks later, the 22 individual was arrested, possession of burglar 23 tools, possession of stolen property. Sound 7714 1 familiar? The following day, he pleaded 2 guilty. He is on his one-year probation, you 3 remember, for three weeks already. His sentence 4 as plea bargained by the district attorney, 5 Senator Padavan, was a conditional discharge. 6 He now has two convictions within three weeks. 7 August 22, 1978, five weeks 8 later, he was arrested -- listen. Sound 9 familiar? -- grand larceny, possession of stolen 10 property, possession of burglar tools. This 11 time he didn't plead guilty until January of 12 1979, at which point he was given 90 days. But, 13 remember, he pleaded guilty -- he was arrested 14 in August, he pleaded guilty in January. 15 While the case was pending, he 16 was arrested in October, grand larceny, 17 possession of stolen property, criminal 18 mischief, unauthorized use of a vehicle. That 19 plea was taken together with the crime before it 20 in January, and he got his 90 days. 21 But don't jump too quickly 22 because again, before we got to January, he was 23 arrested again in October, nine days after the 7715 1 arrest on October 14, pleaded guilty two days 2 later; and what was the arrest? You know the 3 line already. Arrested -- grand larceny, 4 possession of stolen property, unauthorized use 5 of a vehicle -- and here he got 90 days. 6 So by the time we got to January 7 of 1979 -- that's about 13 months after his 8 first arrest -- he has five arrests and five 9 convictions. Now, you tell me why the district 10 attorney's office is still plea bargaining with 11 this individual, and the D.A. will say, "Well, 12 you know, we don't always have a good case," and 13 this and that. Five times they didn't have a 14 good case? Three weeks after the first arrest 15 they didn't have a good case, and four weeks 16 after that they didn't have a good case? 17 And don't blame the judges 18 because the judges are bound after the D.A.s 19 make their plea bargains to what we allow. But 20 here we go. We have this individual, and as of 21 January of 1979 with five arrests, they finally 22 gave him 90 days in jail. That had a great 23 effect on this individual so that he didn't 7716 1 commit another crime until October of 1979, 2 which was his sixth; and in this one, any hands, 3 what was he arrested for? Grand larceny, 4 possession of stolen property and, this time, 5 possession of a weapon. And this time when he 6 pleaded guilty, they threw the book at him -- 60 7 days -- 60 days for his sixth conviction within 8 less than two years. 9 Now he is away for 60 days, so 10 that gets us into 1980, and it wasn't until June 11 of 1980 that he got caught again, his seventh 12 arrest. Anybody want to guess? Criminal 13 mischief, resisting arrest. Pleaded guilty. 14 This time they did throw the book at him -- 30 15 days. 16 So he is doing good. First, he 17 didn't get put into jail for four or five 18 crimes. They gave him 90 days. They saw that 19 didn't do any good, so they said, "Why don't we 20 make it 60." That didn't do any good, "We'll 21 give him 30 days." Seven convictions within 22 that period of time. 23 In August of 1980 -- this is two 7717 1 months after this horrendous 30 days that he had 2 to spend in jail -- he was arrested for 3 attempted murder, robbery, assault, reckless 4 endangerment. Is anybody surprised? Is there 5 anybody here that didn't know it was coming? 6 And on this eighth conviction, he was sentenced 7 to two to six years. He was paroled in 1984 in 8 November. 9 Take heart. It took seven months 10 for him to get rearrested while on parole, 11 criminal possession of a weapon, assault, et 12 cetera, et cetera, and this time he got 7-1/2 to 13 15, and it was after this when he was arrested 14 again when he got paroled, and then he was on 15 parole again. 16 The point I'm making is, this is 17 not an isolated case. And, Senator Volker, I 18 have sat in a court and I have listened to 19 sentences and as a "Liberal" -- quotes/unquotes 20 -- I was ready to tear my hair out, because I 21 said to myself, I believe we have to have a 22 justice system which doesn't abuse people, which 23 gives you the privacy of your own home, which 7718 1 doesn't browbeat people into confessions, but 2 every one of us here -- I'm not pointing only to 3 the Republican side; I'm pointing to the 4 Democratic side. Every one of us here has voted 5 for sentencing laws which we believe are fair 6 and which protect our communities, but when you 7 are in the courtroom, it doesn't work that way. 8 And I'm telling you, you can't 9 sit around and point to judges and blame 10 judges. Are there judges who make mistakes? 11 You are damn right. Are there cops that make 12 mistakes? Absolutely. 13 But I'm telling you, preliminary 14 judgments are made by the district attorneys' 15 offices, and they are fighting for truth, 16 justice, and the American way but they make 17 plenty of mistakes. 18 So, Senator Volker, when it comes 19 to the parts of your bill that say, "We will 20 give you a break but if you don't take the 21 break, you are not going to make a fool of us," 22 I don't have any problem with that. 23 I am very encouraged in one 7719 1 respect and that is that -- if this is stricken 2 from the record, I will never repeat it in 3 public -- Senator Volker is extraordinarily 4 reasonable and easy to work with as a member of 5 the committee and, when this was brought up 6 together with Senator Waldon, who is our very, 7 very distinguished ranking member of Codes, we 8 decided to look into cases like this to see why, 9 not to point fingers or to throw stones but to 10 see why this seems to be happening. 11 I'm proud to say that I've spoken 12 to Justice Lerner in Queens, who is compiling 13 some statistics for us, and I've spoken to the 14 Office of Court Administration, and they are 15 going to try to be helpful, to find out why. It 16 shouldn't be for the newspapers. It shouldn't 17 be for some smart-aleck, fresh editorial writer 18 who's never been in the streets, to criticize 19 everybody. It really ought to be for the 20 Legislature, for us, to take a look at what's 21 going wrong, because I guarantee you, there 22 isn't one member in this house, not one, who 23 hasn't in his or her heart hoped that the 7720 1 sentencing structures and the fairness 2 structures and the evidence structures would 3 protect our people. 4 There's nobody here who is 5 lobbying for the criminals. We understand 6 racism in the courts and in the system. We 7 understand civil rights. We understand 8 constitutional rights. But there's nobody here 9 who's lobbying for criminals. We're here to 10 protect society, and we can disagree as to 11 whether this particular bill goes too far, 12 whether it protects or it doesn't, but we're all 13 on the same side. So what's gone wrong? 14 And I don't intend to answer that 15 question. I intend to say that I think it's 16 about time that we really found out what's 17 wrong, be it through the Codes Committee, be it 18 through the Judiciary Committee, be it through 19 whatever, but something is wrong in Mudsville, 20 and we ought to take a look at it. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 22 you, Senator Gold. 23 Senator Abate. 7721 1 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Abate, on the bill. 4 SENATOR ABATE: Just as a preface 5 to my comments, just I welcome your honesty in 6 this. It's a pleasure working with Senator 7 Volker on all the issues. He's one of the most 8 knowledgeable of all the people around criminal 9 justice, and I think we can learn a lot from 10 him. 11 I think it gives you a number of 12 options when there is an omnibus bill. Unfor 13 tunately, I happen to like all the options and 14 even support it. I happen to like even the 15 fingerprinting because judges need to be 16 informed whether it's the prosecuting attorney 17 in a Family Court or the D.A. in a criminal 18 court from county to county. That's the only 19 way they can track and get information. But 20 many of us will disagree on pieces of it. I'd 21 like to talk about three issues. 22 The first is process, and a 23 number of us have spent the last six months 7722 1 talking about last year's bill, and we passed a 2 bill last year based on some premises. The 3 premise last year is we thought we wouldn't need 4 any more prisons, that Willard would mean that a 5 number of non-violent offenders would be 6 diverted from the system so there would be 7 enough space within the system for the violent 8 felons that we determined needed to spend more 9 time in prison. 10 Well, it didn't work that way. 11 I'm afraid when we pass another omnibus bill, 12 without understanding the impacts of this bill, 13 we will be making the same mistakes again. I 14 don't think we've determined each piece of this 15 bill and what the impact will be on the courts. 16 We haven't determined by eliminating YO, does 17 that mean we need to build 3,000 more prison 18 cells? You use those numbers because I have had 19 conversation with DOCS and people involved in 20 the Governor's office and understand that when 21 we eliminate, not eliminate YO, but the YO 22 provision when someone reoffends and they're 23 treated as a predicate will have an enormous 7723 1 impact on the prison system. 2 So I think if we're going to pass 3 an omnibus bill, it's incumbent upon us in this 4 chamber or in the Governor's office to give us 5 as much information as possible so we can be 6 informed. 7 I happen to think that criminal 8 justice policy should be bipartisan. I think we 9 agree in more instances than we disagree and 10 policy around criminal justice is not a simple 11 way of developing it. It's very complex. We 12 want to reach certain goals. We want to protect 13 victims. We want to aid them in their 14 recovery. We want to prevent offenders from 15 revictimizing. We want to prevent that young 16 person from getting involved in the juvenile 17 justice system in the first instance. 18 So we have to be very thoughtful, 19 and I think being thoughtful means that we sit 20 down and get all the information we need to make 21 the best and most informed decisions we can, 22 spending all the money we need. I've never been 23 averse to spending money on prisons if that's, 7724 1 in fact, what we need to produce safer streets. 2 But I don't think we take that approach. We 3 don't look at all the options we have at hand to 4 see how we can most effectively protect the 5 public. 6 So in terms of process, I'm not 7 prepared to support this omnibus bill because I 8 don't know what the costs are. I don't know the 9 impacts, and I'm afraid what we'll do this year 10 we'll pass a lot of new pieces of legislation 11 and we'll be given the bill next year and the 12 bill might be going back to our constituents. 13 We pass these great bills; we think they're 14 going to be effective, but they're going to cost 15 maybe 500 million, maybe a billion, and we're 16 going to be safe next year saying, Do we need 17 these laws? What do they mean? 18 It seems to me we need to know up 19 front what we're doing. The impact, the cost, 20 are they going to be effective in making our 21 streets safer? Let's make those decisions all 22 at once. 23 On the substance, there's one - 7725 1 I see one big problem with this bill and that's 2 the part that deals with the transfer of 3 juvenile delinquents from the DFY to DOCS, and 4 let me take a moment to explain. 5 Already on the books are two 6 pieces of law that allow the transfer, one for 7 juveniles over 18 years of age. The director of 8 DFY with his discretion, Director Johnson, can 9 determine that an individual offender can't - 10 is not redeemable, is not benefiting from 11 rehabilitation or they're so problematic, do not 12 obey rules, are disrupting the security of DFY. 13 That director can move anyone from 18 or over to 14 DOCS. 15 What that issue now is the 16 and 16 over. In that instance, DFY can petition the 17 sentencing court, in this instance it would 18 probably be the Family Court, petition in the 19 same set of circumstances and say, We have an 20 individual that's incorrigible, doesn't benefit 21 from our programs, is disruptive, would be 22 better -- it would better serve DFY, the other 23 youth in DFY, if we move that individual from 7726 1 DOCS. 2 So right now, the director has 3 the power to go to the court to move that 4 individual. What this legislation does, it says 5 if you're 16 and above, it doesn't matter who 6 you are, what you've done, whether you are 7 willing to work at rehabilitation and maybe you 8 are cooperating with it in DFY, it says, you 9 reach a certain age, regardless of any other 10 factors, age alone, we're going to move you from 11 DFY to DOCS. That just doesn't make sense. 12 I agree there's a portion of 13 those 16-year-olds that are incorrigible, that 14 cannot benefit from treatment and rehabilita 15 tion, but there are far fewer of those than the 16 400 suggested; and so what needs to be done is 17 those that need to be removed should be removed, 18 but not just because the a youth reaches 16 19 years of age should it mean automatic transfer. 20 Now, some will say, why not DOCS? 21 They can be served just as easily in DOCS. We 22 have to look at the origin of DFY. It was 23 constructed with a notion that when children are 7727 1 still young, children by, I guess, definition 2 are still young -- when people are still young 3 and malleable, we can teach them the difference 4 between right and wrong, and that we can build 5 skills and teach them about authority, teach 6 them about how to be accountable for their acts 7 and teach them that they may have a future and 8 that they have choices in their lives. 9 DFY is built around that notion. 10 Everyone in that system should be trained around 11 that mission. If we're doing this because we 12 think DFY doesn't work and DOCS can better serve 13 these juveniles, then shame on us. What we 14 should be doing is going back to DFY and making 15 DFY work. We're not talking about huge numbers 16 of young people. If we can't figure out a way 17 to, in a cost-effective way, develop security 18 measures as well as rehabilitation measures 19 within DFY, then something's wrong with New York 20 State. 21 I think we can do it. There are 22 a lot of great minds in this chamber. There is 23 a lot of good leadership within DFY. I think 7728 1 that's where our attention should be applied, 2 and my last point on the juvenile justice issue, 3 there are many studies, Florida, New Jersey, 4 that have studied similarly situated juveniles, 5 same arrest record, family background, et 6 cetera, and the recidivism rate was much higher 7 when that juvenile was moved to an adult system 8 and released, compared to that juvenile that 9 stayed within the juvenile justice system. 10 So if we're doing this just to 11 save dollars and we're, in fact, impacting and 12 jeopardizing public safety, shouldn't we take a 13 second look at it? So if, in fact the recidivism 14 rate is less when we supervise them in DFY, then 15 let's do the smart thing, let's keep them in DFY 16 and give the power to the director for existing 17 law to move incorrigible youth from DFY when 18 it's necessary. 19 My last point is one about a 20 holistic approach. We talk about holistic 21 medicine. We should talk about a holistic 22 approach to criminal justice policy. Every 23 police chief, most law enforcement people around 7729 1 this country say the same thing in many 2 different ways. They say that if we're going to 3 be effective in crime fighting, we need to take 4 three approaches and invest equally in those 5 approaches. That's vigorous and strong law 6 enforcement, all the police and prisons we need, 7 plus treatment and prevention. 8 What we've done as a state is 9 said, we've done treatment and prevention but 10 the reality we've never even investigated 11 rationale and enough dollars in treatment and 12 prevention to make any of that work, and let me 13 give you an example why this bill, I believe, 14 would be a better bill if, when we talk about 15 juvenile justice and the enforcement part, we 16 also talk about the community corrections. 17 I'd like to hear more discussion 18 about JIS, Juvenile Intensive Supervision 19 programs. They're wonderful programs around the 20 state. They're funded so that a handful of 21 juveniles are actually in these programs and if 22 you go to any Family Court judge in this state 23 and you ask them what they need, they need 7730 1 Juvenile Intensive Supervision programs with 2 probation supervisors for the offender at 20 to 3 one, where probation is in the homes of the 4 offender, where probation has the resources to 5 work in the schools so to find out what these 6 kids are doing in school, to work with child 7 welfare agencies. 8 What's wrong with our juvenile 9 justice system is not just what we're doing at 10 the back end, it is see the lack of attention in 11 the front end. I relate to this issue as a 12 mother and that is, you have a child and you let 13 them get away three or four times and you don't 14 respond. They think, we'll do it a fourth 15 time. There's no consequences to our act and 16 what's happening in Family Court is not what 17 we're doing in the back end, it's the fact that 18 we're letting kids come in and out of the system 19 right from the ghetto in the beginning without 20 any consequences. 21 We need to create consequences 22 for their actions in the beginning, resource 23 Family Court so that can happen. 7731 1 So until I see discussion about 2 prevention, resourcing Family Court, I'm not 3 talking about being soft, I'm talking about 4 being tough, talking about after care programs. 5 I think then we can look at our omnibus bill, 6 that makes some sense. 7 So I could go on and on. I 8 recognize as well as Senator Volker and other 9 people in this room that many of the people 10 we're talking about are not choir boys. I've 11 dealt with them closely. I've been in the cells 12 along with them. I know that these are very 13 difficult problems. It requires some tough 14 solutions, but it also requires a comprehensive 15 approach to crime fighting and I hope when this 16 gets amended, because there's lots of things in 17 this bill that I can support, but I'd like to 18 see some additional approaches, and I look 19 forward over the next month, hopefully over 20 many, many years where I can stand here and say 21 we're doing everything we possibly can to make 22 sure juveniles stay out of the system, build the 23 skills to become law-abiding citizens and we see 7732 1 an actual reduction of crime in our streets. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Volker. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Very quickly, if 6 I might just point out, Senator Abate, and as 7 always you're articulate and you hit the very 8 difficult points, and I commend you for your 9 interest and your attention. 10 Let me just read to you, because 11 I think the only issue I think I would directly 12 disagree with you on is as it relates to the 13 issue of the 16- and 17-year-olds and I know 14 it's a tough issue but let me read you the 15 language in the bill that deals with it. 16 "Division for Youth may transfer 17 an offender not less than 16 years of age to the 18 Department of Correctional Services if the 19 director of the division certifies to the 20 Commissioner of Correctional Services that there 21 is no substantial likelihood that the youth will 22 benefit from the programs offered by division 23 facilities." 7733 1 That provision, by the way, was 2 put in there at the insistence of Johnny 3 Johnson, the head of DFY. I might point that 4 out to you because it's not in every bill that 5 has dealt with the issue of 16- and 17 years 6 old, in fact in all honesty I'm not sure whether 7 it's in the budget or not. I just don't 8 remember. It should be, but I just don't 9 remember if it was in the Governor's budget or 10 not, but it is in this bill and as far as I'm 11 concerned, if we actually do a bill as I think 12 eventually we will, doing this transfer, that 13 provision should be in there because I happen to 14 agree with you that I don't think in every case 15 you should necessarily make those transfers 16 without giving the Division for Youth some - 17 some authority to make some determinations. I 18 just want to make that clear. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 20 the last section. I'm sorry. Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR ABATE: I'm very pleased 23 that you included it. All the language up to 7734 1 this point was just a wholesale removal. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Abate, Senator Montgomery was up before 4 you to ask. Senator Montgomery. 5 SENATOR ABATE: That was the end 6 of my statement. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 8 you. 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 11 you, Mr. President. Just briefly on the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Senator Montgomery, on the bill. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I am just 15 going to speak from my experience. I'm not a 16 lawyer, so my assumption is that we're 17 increasing the degrees when we say -- when 18 Senator -- when the bill says that if the 19 penalties for certain crimes will be increased 20 from class -- Class C to a Class B felony, and 21 so forth and so on. My assumption is that that 22 just simply lengthens the sentence and 23 establishes stricter guidelines for sentencing. 7735 1 But I do -- I want to speak to - 2 and my supposition also in relationship to that 3 is that we are now talking about a massive 4 expansion of our prison system based on the need 5 that this bill will require. 6 But I want to speak more 7 specifically on the issue of juvenile justice 8 reform, that we are now -- based on this 9 legislation, we are now talking about 10 fingerprinting of 11- and 12-year-olds and 13 11 to 15-year-olds for lesser degrees of crime, and 12 I just want to remind you as I have said on 13 other occasions in debating legislation similar 14 to this, that I have had personal experiences 15 where young people are arrested for various and 16 sundry reported crime and in the final analysis 17 the charge was reduced substantially when they 18 got before the judge or when they got to the 19 D.A., or they were dropped altogether, and I am 20 not speaking of the young people who have gotten 21 to the point where they have become predicate 22 offenders. I'm talking about first-time 23 offenders and possibly young people who have 7736 1 come in contact with law enforcement even a 2 second time. 3 So what we're saying here is that 4 any time that applies to a young person, that 5 person -- that youngster, even if that is an 6 11-year-old child or a 12-year-old child, it is 7 very possible that they could be fingerprinted 8 and go in the system and remain forever. 9 Now, what I want to say is that I 10 consider this move to lower and lower the age at 11 which we treat children as adult prisoners 12 pretty much, adult predicate felons, they have 13 been referred to in some press media as 14 predators, and I know that this is directed 15 toward poor children in general and African 16 American males in particular, and I see this 17 happening throughout this country. I see it 18 happening here on a daily and weekly basis. 19 Every week we debate these kinds 20 of bills, and I -- I just think that I cannot 21 sit here and not share with my colleagues in 22 this body my serious concern for the fact that I 23 believe that this is a conscious effort to 7737 1 incarcerate as many young people as possible at 2 as early an age as possible and I believe that 3 it feeds into the prison industrial complex in 4 this state and in this nation, and so I say to 5 you, Mr. President and my colleagues, this is 6 not only a bad bill, but I think it's a 7 statement that I certainly take personally as it 8 relates to how we view our responsibility to 9 young people. 10 I have been in high schools. 11 There are young people of -- there are so many 12 youngsters in one high school. I have a high 13 school in my district with 4,000 young people. 14 That means that on an average day, two-thirds of 15 those young people do not have access to speak 16 one on one with any adult in that school because 17 there is just not enough of them. There are no 18 counselors. There are not enough teachers. The 19 classrooms are too large. Oftentimes they don't 20 even have parents. Many of them are homeless. 21 They move around from place to place. We are - 22 we are -- as a society, we have stepped away 23 from any investment in young people, and so what 7738 1 our -- our answer to it is that we want to build 2 more prisons and we want to get them in at a 3 younger age because we assume that that's where 4 they will remain for the rest of their lives, 5 and then when they come out we are going to 6 notify the community that here -- here is a 7 person who has been in prison for whatever 8 reason, and then the community can exact further 9 retribution of those people. 10 So, Mr. President, I view this as 11 not -- not just a prison -- as a criminal 12 justice reform. I think it's much more serious 13 and I think we need to really -- we need to 14 examine what it is that we intend to exact with 15 these kinds of bills that we debate weekly in 16 this chamber. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 19 you, Senator. 20 Read the last section. 21 Senator Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Just very 23 quickly, and I know I -- Senator Montgomery, let 7739 1 me -- your indication that you can just stop 2 young people and fingerprint them, that's not in 3 this bill, in any bill that I have. You have to 4 be charged with a felony, a serious offense. To 5 be charged, for instance, with disorderly 6 conduct or something of that nature, which is 7 not a felony, there's nothing in this bill that 8 says that any youth can be fingerprinted. 9 Senator, the indication that 10 somehow that this bill would be aimed at 11 minority young people, I can assure you in the 12 areas upstate, and certainly there are a number 13 of minority people and minority people are 14 picked up in various cities and in the suburbs, 15 but I can assure you that there are an awful lot 16 of non-minority youths who are involved in a lot 17 of criminal activity, a lot, a great deal, and 18 in many areas it represents a much greater 19 number than do minorities. It is a very serious 20 problem in some of the suburban areas upstate as 21 well as urban areas. 22 We are not trying to incarcerate 23 all youths. In fact, if you look at this bill, 7740 1 the only people that would go from youth 2 facilities actually to DOCS, generally speaking, 3 as a result of this bill, would be 16- and 4 17-year-olds when, as I said, the Division for 5 Youth has some option, and I'd also pointed out 6 to you, Senator, that no state in the United 7 States -- in this country, no state in the world 8 provides more money for schooling than this 9 state. Also we provide more money for welfare, 10 for Medicaid, for all sorts of human services. 11 The problem is maybe we're not - 12 we're certainly not doing all the right things, 13 but the one thing I must say to you is the 14 amount of money that we put into incarceration, 15 you want to compare it to all the other things 16 that we provide, is comparatively small. Now, 17 it's much too big as far as I'm concerned, and I 18 agree with you on that, but let me tell you 19 something, there's no comparison to the entire 20 prison complex of all the system, the parole 21 system, probation system that's compared to what 22 we spend on education and all the services that 23 we do spend. 7741 1 Unfortunately, they haven't 2 worked but, to say that we have not continued to 3 spend huge amounts of money and resources in an 4 attempt to educate and to develop a system that 5 does not use our prison system, is just not true 6 and I just must say that. 7 I understand your concern, 8 Senator, but I say to you that we do not intend 9 in this bill and do not in this bill talk about 10 fingerprinting anybody but those people who have 11 committed serious crimes or have been charged 12 with serious crimes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 33. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Waldon to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 23 much, Mr. President. 7742 1 I had finished earlier, but 2 Senator Volker's statement just now caused me to 3 rise to explain my vote. 4 I agree with him in part. I 5 think we're not doing the right thing in regard 6 to education because our children are failing at 7 a much too high rate, and we're not doing the 8 right thing in regard to the Department of 9 Correctional Services and overall with the 10 criminal justice system because we have too high 11 a rate of recidivism, and crime is not 12 plummeting in the manner in which I believe it 13 could if we had true rehabilitation and if we 14 truly addressed the root causes. 15 But I think he was in error, and 16 that's what really motivated me to stand. The 17 fastest growing part of our state's budget is 18 that part which deals with the Department of 19 Correctional Services and overall criminal 20 justice. 21 When I became an Assemblyman in 22 1983, the budget for DOCS was $1.47 billion. 23 The next year it was 1.7 billion; the last two 7743 1 numbers just reversed themselves. Now, it's way 2 beyond that. In the last ten years, if my 3 information is correct, the Department of 4 Correctional Services budget has quintupled - 5 almost quadrupled -- almost quintupled whereas 6 the education budget in the state has gone up 7 two and a small percentage, two times and a 8 small percentage, in the last 10 or 12 years. 9 So I think that it is not quite 10 accurate that we're doing all that we can for 11 education, and it's not quite accurate that 12 we're not putting lots and lots -- dispropor 13 tionately money into the Department of 14 Correctional Services and overall the criminal 15 justice system. 16 I vote in the no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Gold, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 First of all, I want to thank my 22 colleagues for letting me make the points I made 23 earlier on this bill and, as I pointed out, I 7744 1 certainly think there are some provisions which 2 are very good. I think the death knell of this 3 bill is the word "omnibus" and when you -- if 4 this was broken down as we break down so many 5 things, I would be glad to support as I 6 indicated to Senator Volker, the prior youthful 7 offender treatment part of it, but since this is 8 an omnibus bill, I think Senator Abate and 9 Senator Waldon and others have pointed out, and 10 Senator Montgomery pointed out just why as an 11 omnibus bill, I can't support it. 12 I vote no. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Excuse me, 14 Mr. President. Thank you. I'd like to explain 15 my vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Montgomery to explain her vote. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 19 I would just like to respond briefly to Senator 20 Volker. I understand that, as all legislation 21 that we pass in here, it's hopefully not 22 necessarily directed at any one group or 23 another, but I only have to look at the -- the 7745 1 prison system in our state and who is in that 2 system, and it's primarily African-American 3 males and they're getting younger and younger, 4 and Latinos, and so there is something to be 5 said about the fact that while we may be 12 6 percent of the population, we are 85 or 90 7 percent of the prison; so there is something 8 happening there, and I must say that it is - 9 the designation of the charge of arrest is based 10 on who is doing the arresting. That's how the 11 charge gets made and whether or not that charge 12 holds is -- depends on what happens after that 13 process. 14 Now, so and based on the state's 15 own study, the fact of the matter is that the 16 charges made on two people, one of whom is an 17 African-American and one of whom is not of the 18 same background, the charge is greater or more 19 severe for the African-American than the person 20 who is not. 21 Now, that has been proven to be 22 the case by the Governor's own study begun in 23 the prior administration and completed in this 7746 1 administration, so that's public knowledge, 2 acknowledged by the state, the state itself. So 3 to say that this will be meted out equally is 4 truly a farce, and we all know that. 5 Everybody in this room knows that 6 the criminal justice system does not work 7 equally for every -- everyone and so, as we 8 establish these kinds of laws, we know that 9 ultimately who is going to be primarily impacted 10 by them, and so to say that it is not going to 11 -- it's not targeted to any group, I think, is 12 an understatement and it certainly is not proven 13 based on what we have in our criminal justice 14 system. 15 So, Mr. President, I vote no on 16 this legislation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Announce the results. I'm sorry. Senator 19 Marchi. 20 SENATOR MARCHI: Explain my 21 vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Marchi to explain his vote. 7747 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, I 2 support this bill because there is a larger 3 coherence and inner logic that ties its elements 4 together, and it's probably a better framework 5 of reference to conduct future dialogue. I have 6 to say that today was one of the best days I've 7 heard on both sides, really on several sides of 8 an exploratory and deep-seated consideration 9 that was accorded to the elements of the 10 problem. 11 I do want to make one point 12 that's tangential because it's not immediately 13 involved, and that's the question of personal 14 identity. I have sponsored legislation in the 15 past that we -- that we have appointed a 16 commission or people to develop a system of 17 imaging for everybody. There is an element of 18 risk, I think, and danger to persons -- to the 19 individual. If our identity becomes a known, we 20 could be victims of violence on the highway, 21 deprived of documents. There are many 22 circumstances where personal identity, were it 23 known, becomes an element of assurance and 7748 1 protection, and there is no good reason other 2 than perhaps preconceptions from the past, why 3 our identity should not be a matter of knowledge 4 to the entire population, and in fact, I was 5 anxious about my own family being fingerprinted 6 where they had no occasion really to be 7 fingerprinted, but the fact of identity being an 8 unknown element in large sectors of our 9 population, I don't think enures to the security 10 of our population. 11 So I would hope that we change 12 our attitudes with respect to finger-imaging or 13 any other system that will establish reliably a 14 system of identification, and I do vote aye on 15 this bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1252 are 20 Senators Abate, Connor, Espada, Gold, Leichter, 21 Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, Paterson, Sea 22 brook, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 46, nays 12. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 7749 1 bill is passed. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 4 was out of the chamber when Calendar Number 900 5 -- when there was a slow roll call on it. If I 6 had been in the chamber, I would have voted in 7 the affirmative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Record 9 will so reflect. 10 Senator Holland. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 12 I understand there is a privileged resolution at 13 the desk by Senator Connor. Could we have the 14 title read and act on it, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 18 Resolution, commending Robert O. Lehrman, 19 President and CEO of Community Bankers 20 Association of New York, and Neil Levin, 21 Superintendent of Banks of New York State, upon 22 the occasion of their designation for special 23 honor at the UJA Banking and Finance Division 7750 1 Dinner to be held on June 13, 1996. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All 3 those in favor of adopting the privileged 4 resolution say aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: MR. President, 11 can we go to Calendar 1228, Senator Stafford's 12 bill, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1228, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 612, an 17 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Stafford, an explanation has been 21 requested by the Acting Minority Leader, Senator 22 Onorato. 23 Senator Stafford. 7751 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I would first say for the past 4 four years the Senate has been most supportive 5 of passing this legislation. What this is all 6 about is there's a problem and there's a debate 7 going on about PCBs in the Hudson River and 8 there's a debate how they should get rid of 9 them, how we should get rid of them. The 10 professionals don't agree. 11 There has been talk of dredging 12 it all up, but you know, if they dredge it up, 13 guess where they want to put it? They want to 14 put it right in the heart of the dairy country 15 in Washington County. How foolish! 16 We have talked to these 17 officials. We have pleaded and said how 18 ridiculous this is. Now, granted EPA is 19 involved right now and we will see exactly what 20 the final determination is. But all this does 21 is, it says if they're going to dredge up all of 22 the Hudson River, miles of it, and then take 23 that fill and put it right in the middle of 7752 1 where cattle graze, where we produce milk, and 2 spread that all over the United States, we say 3 it is foolish. 4 We don't want them there. They 5 should be in a sensible hazardous waste land 6 fill, and it is serious for the people who live 7 there. Consequently, on June 25th, 1992, we 8 passed this bill. On June 22nd, 1993, we passed 9 this bill. On June 29th, 1994 we passed this 10 bill. On June 7th, 1995 we passed this bill, 11 and I would hope on June 12th -- thank you - 12 June 12th, 1996 I would hope we would pass this 13 bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 Senator Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 17 we're not going to belabor the point. This bill 18 has been around, so I'm going to yield. Our 19 main objection to the bill is that it sets a 20 precedent that would enable any town or 21 community in the entire state of New York to 22 promulgate this particular type of rule, making 23 it virtually impossible to site any facility in 7753 1 the state and over the past years, I simply 2 allow the members to know who voted for it. 3 Last year there were 4 participating 14 nays, and voting against the 5 bill were Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, 6 Espada, Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, 7 Nanula, Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Santiago 8 and Stachowski. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Mendez. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, 23 to explain my vote. 7754 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Mendez to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR MENDEZ: I am -- I, like 4 most of my colleagues on this side as well as on 5 the other side, do care enormously for air 6 quality, for the quality of water, for the 7 environment. There is, however, a very 8 interesting phenomenon occurring within the - 9 those who care about the environment and in my 10 district I have seen the results of environment 11 al racism. In fact, a little while ago I was 12 discussing another bill that will soon be 13 considered by us here, and I told them how I 14 feel about it being in this instance and they 15 acknowledged to me that the issue of environ 16 mental racism exists not only in poor minority 17 communities in the city of New York and urban 18 areas as well as in rural areas, and I am 19 supporting this bill because I believe that in 20 this instance that the rural agricultural area 21 is being attacked on the grounds of environment 22 al racism, as my district was attacked a few 23 years back. 7755 1 I vote yes. Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Mendez voting in the affirmative. 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 1228 are 8 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada, 9 Kruger, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, 10 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith, 11 Stachowski, Lachman. Ayes 43, nays 15. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 13 bill is passed. 14 Senator Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 16 can we do bill, Calendar Number 1280, Senator 17 LaValle's bill, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 19 Secretary will read. Senator Holland, you say 20 Calendar Number 1280? That's Senator Kuhl's 21 bill. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay it aside, 23 please. 7756 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 2 aside. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: (Background 4 noise-inaudible.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1433, by Senator LaValle, Senate Bill 7057-A, an 7 act to amend Chapter 741 of the Laws of 1985. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 9 Senator LaValle, an explanation has been 10 requested by Acting Minority Leader, Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: What did you 13 say? Senator Paterson, this bill was filed - 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 15 President. 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: -- and 17 developed - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Excuse 19 me, Senator LaValle, a minute. 20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: That 21 explanation is satisfactory. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 23 the last section. 7757 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Announce the results. 9 The bill is passed. 10 Senator Holland. 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: 1457, Senator 12 Saland's bill, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: 1457, by Senator 16 Saland, Senate Bill Number 7244, an act to amend 17 the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 18 circumstances. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 7758 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Announce the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 6 Senator Mendez recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator Cook's 11 bill, please. 1466, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1466, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 7532, 16 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 17 proposing an amendment to Section 1 of Article 18 14. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 21 1466 has been requested by the Acting Minority 22 Leader, Senator Paterson. 23 Senator Cook. 7759 1 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 2 this is a concurrent resolution to amend the 3 Constitution. It would permit the state of New 4 York to lease up to 500 acres of land for the 5 extension of ski trails at Hunter Mountain in 6 exchange for 500 acres of land that would be 7 acquired and given to the state of New York by 8 Hunter Mountain. 9 This is, in some sense, similar 10 to a number of trades of property that have 11 taken place through the years, the difference 12 being that in this case the state is not 13 actually giving up any land, not actually 14 transferring. It's only leasing it, so that it 15 is, in fact, more conservative than the other 16 land transfer bills that we've done in the 17 past. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 19 you, Senator. 20 Senator Oppenheimer. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 22 hate to stand up and oppose my good friend, 23 Senator Cook, but this -- this is a three smoke 7760 1 stack, Charlie, and it has a lot of serious 2 implications, even though on the face of it, it 3 may not look it, because you say we do have 4 Hunter Mountain and we do have trails there, but 5 then to extend it up to the top of the mountain, 6 that has very, very serious implications and let 7 me mention a few of them. 8 This bill, the reason it has to 9 be a Constitutional Amendment is because it 10 would amend Article 14 of our state Constitution 11 to permit the leasing of forever wild forest 12 preserve land, and we have spoken in the past 13 about forest preserve land and about wilderness 14 land and about watershed land, and all of them 15 are taken in, in this. 16 This has very -- for example, 17 very serious and dangerous legal implications 18 beyond the environmental impacts, and believe me 19 there are plenty of environmental impacts. Let 20 me talk briefly about the environmental impacts 21 first. 22 Hunter Mountain is one of only 23 two high peaks that go up above 4,000 feet in 7761 1 the Catskill forest preserve, and the 2 protections that have been put down, the 3 constitutional protections that have been put 4 down for forest preserves were put down over a 5 hundred years ago. 6 In this area, there's a very 7 fragile ecosystem, and we have permanently 8 protected it, in fact, for 75 years. Now, why 9 have we done that? Because it's part of the 10 watershed of New York City water. The watershed 11 of the Catskills as well as the Delaware and the 12 Croton are where we get our water for the vast 13 -- the 10 million people in our greater 14 metropolitan area. 15 What this proposal would further 16 require is, in creating the additional slopes, 17 the ski slopes that this private company wants 18 to acquire and then create, would take another 19 500 million gallons of water every year for snow 20 making to cover these additional slopes which 21 would rise up to the top of Hunter Mountain. 22 Right now the slopes only start halfway up. 23 Already we are using 500 million gallons to make 7762 1 the snow for the existing trail. 2 The consequences for the larger 3 Catskill watershed are really immense. To take 4 out this amount of water from -- from the 5 watershed would seriously impact the water that 6 then comes down to us in the lower part of the 7 state. 8 If approved to show how 9 significant this is, I want it noted that this 10 would be the first time the forest preserve was 11 ever leased for a private commercial purpose. 12 Further, it would be the first time the state 13 permitted the forest preserve to be altered and 14 developed from its -- and I'm quoting the 15 Constitution -- "*** forever wild state for a 16 private commercial operation" and further it 17 would be the first time that lands acquired as 18 forest preserve expressly for watershed 19 protection and wild forest recreation were 20 permitted to be altered and developed for a 21 private sector commercial use. 22 So let me say that the number of 23 groups that have signed on in opposition to this 7763 1 is very interesting. They're not groups that 2 always work together, but they feel this so 3 threatens our Constitution and creates - 4 pardon? Oh. O.K. -- I would just mention the 5 opposition which really spans the spectrum of 6 environmental/recreation/sporting groups and 7 includes the New York State Conservation 8 Council, the Environmental Defense Fund, 9 National Wildlife Federation, Sierra Club, Long 10 Island Pine Barrens Society, Hudson River Sloop 11 Clearwater, Group for the South Fork, National 12 Resources Defense Council, the Hudson River 13 Keeper, the League of Women Voters, the New York 14 State Trappers Association, Scenic Hudson and 15 indeed many, many others. This is an issue 16 which unites us because it is so potentially 17 threatening. 18 And I'll yield the floor to 19 Senator Waldon. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Waldon, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR WALDON: I would like to 23 ask the gentlelady a few questions. 7764 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Oppenheimer, would you yield to a 3 question from Senator Waldon? 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I've never 5 heard it referred to as gentlelady. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Oppenheimer, will you yield to a 8 question from the gentleman? 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I will. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Waldon. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 13 Oppenheimer, in your deliberations regarding 14 this issue, did you come up with any indications 15 that might indicate to my colleagues and myself 16 the margin, profit margin, for the company that 17 might be developing Hunter Mountain? 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Actually, I 19 haven't seen figures on that, but I know what 20 their intention is. I think this is one of the 21 peaks that is 4,000 feet. They are hopeful, by 22 extending the trails up to the top of the 23 mountain -- as I said earlier, they begin at the 7765 1 middle of the mountain now and by buying up this 2 trail space but not the area between the trails 3 which is, I think, a very interesting and 4 confounding concept, they hope to create an area 5 that would attract an international crowd 6 similar to Stowe. 7 Now, it's hard to imagine this 8 occurring, but I think it is a -- a wish of 9 theirs to create a great center. I do not think 10 from my position as a skier, not a legislator, 11 that people will be drawn to that area. There 12 is no way that that area can compete with Stowe, 13 so I think they have rather inflated ideas of 14 what will happen in this area. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Waldon. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the gentle 18 lady respond to another question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Oppenheimer, will you continue to yield 21 for a question to Senator Waldon? 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 7766 1 Oppenheimer, it is legend here in Albany that 2 you are a great skier. In fact, when we have 3 our silent raffles, the Democratic Senate 4 Campaign Committee, you allow us to bid on ski 5 vacations or at least ski week ends at your 6 place and other things which bespeak your love 7 and affinity and participation in skiing. 8 Do you have any idea how much 9 money Stowe in Vermont makes on an annual basis? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Unfor 11 tunately, Senator, I don't have those figures, 12 but you do have a unique environment in Stowe. 13 SENATOR WALDON: And what is 14 that, if I may continue, Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Oppenheimer, do you continue to yield? 17 Senator Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: What is that 19 unique environment in Vermont which doesn't 20 exist in New York and which would not -- would 21 not allow New York not only not to compete with 22 Stowe but, if I'm hearing you sub rosa, 23 correctly would not allow New York to compete 7767 1 with other places on a more international basis 2 than Stowe? 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 4 wouldn't generally say we can't compete in New 5 York State. I think we have in New York State 6 created a great ski center. 7 SENATOR WALDON: But at Hunter 8 Mountain. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: At Hunter, 10 O.K., because I was about to say at Lake Placid 11 and at Whiteface. We have created a great ski 12 center with a great mountain which provides the 13 kind of trails that would entice people to come 14 from far away to that spot. The entire commun 15 ity of Lake Placid is a recreation community. I 16 would say the same thing is true for Stowe. 17 There has grown up around that center an 18 environment that provides for all kinds of 19 recreational activities related largely to the 20 snow and to this very extraordinary mountain 21 that they have at Stowe. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Would the lady, 23 gentlelady, yield for another question? 7768 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Oppenheimer, you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Indeed. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Waldon. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 7 Oppenheimer, do you have any idea how far in 8 miles or kilometers, by international measure, 9 Hunter Mountain is from Lake Placid? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Help me, 11 help me. We'd say about four hours, maybe 12 three. Three hours, three hours. 13 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 14 Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Oppenheimer, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: This is 18 great. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Waldon. 21 SENATOR WALDON: So if somebody 22 wanted to really find a place that is, in fact, 23 a recreational community that is - 7769 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Of long 2 standing. 3 SENATOR WALDON: -- that is, in 4 fact, in place, up and running and has all of 5 the, if you will, accoutrements that one would 6 want in a ski center, it just means driving a 7 few extra miles north to Lake Placid; is that 8 correct? 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would say 10 so. 11 SENATOR WALDON: O.K. And so 12 someone who wanted to find a place in New York 13 State similar to Stowe with all that Stowe might 14 have to offer, could find it at Lake Placid? 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Oh, yes, 16 definitely. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the gentle 18 lady continue to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Oppenheimer, would you continue to 21 yield? 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Indeed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7770 1 Senator Waldon. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, if what 3 you say is true, we don't have to wonder about 4 the success of Lake Placid because it is already 5 successful; is that correct? 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Indeed, m-m 7 h-m-m. 8 SENATOR WALDON: But if Hunter 9 Mountain were allowed to be developed, there is 10 a risk involved because there is no -- there is 11 no guarantee that you know of that Hunter 12 Mountain would be successful and yet, at the 13 same moment, the state is depriving itself of 14 great resources of water, great resources of 15 land, creating easements on a mountainside that 16 are contraindicated by our Constitution, and I 17 would assume that all of this is the reason that 18 you initially spoke and that you initially spoke 19 because you feel that perhaps you are being 20 somewhat ravaged by this proposal as opposed to, 21 as a state, in terms of its recreation being 22 enhanced; is that a correct characterization? 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I could not 7771 1 have said it better myself, Senator. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 3 much, Senator Oppenheimer. 4 Mr. President, on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 7 SENATOR WALDON: I refer to the 8 learnedness of my colleague, Senator 9 Oppenheimer. I support her analysis of this 10 prospect. I must, in supporting, responding to 11 her analysis of this prospect, vote with her and 12 if Senator Oppenheimer is voting in the yea on 13 this particular issue, Al Waldon will also vote 14 -- I'm sorry. You're voting with EPL, you're 15 voting in the nay with EPL. You're voting in 16 the nay. See, even Al Waldon makes mistakes. 17 I'm supporting Senator 18 Oppenheimer. I'm supporting her on this issue 19 in the state of New York. Will you please make 20 sure I'm recorded in the nay. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Senator Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 7772 1 President. 2 As I understand it, the 3 proponents of this legislation would like to 4 create a scenario here in New York State where 5 through Hunter Mountain, we're able to compete 6 with places like Vermont, and the argument is - 7 no, that's not the reason. (Telephone rings) 8 Hello! -- the feeling is that that would be an 9 adequate way to -- to create that comparison by 10 elongating the trails, extending the facility, 11 allowing for greater use of the mountain. 12 I, Mr. President, want to propose 13 that we would not be really -- that our economic 14 forecast cannot guarantee us that, and that in 15 many respects we may be taking the commercial 16 prognostications of an entity that's actually 17 profit-making and substituting it for what we 18 might find if we really looked into it, that we 19 would never really be able to come close, even 20 if we did stimulate some economic development. 21 Rather than competing with 22 Vermont by passing this legislation, I think we 23 would be competing with Massachusetts, 7773 1 particularly Boston. I think this would be the 2 worst deal since Boston sent Babe Ruth to New 3 York many years ago, and the reason I feel that 4 way is that the 500 acres of land that we would 5 actually be swapping, we don't even know what 6 the 500 acres of land are that we'd be getting 7 back. They certainly could not have the 8 cultural value or the just artistic value and 9 the wildlife factor that Hunter Mountain has. 10 Actually, it's not even 500 acres that are going 11 to be affected. We would be swapping 500 acres 12 for what would be an aggregate of 1500 acres 13 since the actual land area that would be 14 expanded consumes a greater part of the mountain 15 and consumes three times its actual size. Not 16 all of that would be used for the trails, but 17 part of it would be used for the scenery that 18 the consumers -- that the individuals who use 19 the trails would actually notice. 20 So we'd be, in effect, not adding 21 permanent wildlife status to 1500 acres in 22 exchange for 500, and when we look into that a 23 little closer, we recognize that in the past, 7774 1 what the state has actually done when we have 2 created these swaps is, we have created a 3 situation where we are dealing a certain area of 4 land for a greater amount of land because the 5 state land was the one that was most preferred. 6 So in order to -- in order to 7 consummate the trade, it became necessary to 8 proffer a greater amount of land. Here we're 9 getting the same value and actually we're giving 10 up three times the amount of land. 11 Finally, it must be pointed out 12 that, in this case where we have swapped land 13 it's gone for the public good. Here it's gone 14 for the commercial good of the extension of what 15 is a ski resort without any real concrete 16 evidence that this is going to create the 17 economic boon to our state coffers or to the 18 region that we're guaranteeing; and so for that 19 reason, I don't -- I think it's really a bad 20 trade and as they say in athletics, some of the 21 best trades you make are the trades that you 22 don't make. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7775 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 3 Cook yield to just one question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Cook, would you yield to one question 6 from Senator Dollinger? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What year was 8 Hunter Mountain ski resort founded? Was it 9 before or after the state had acquired the top 10 of the mountain? 11 SENATOR COOK: About 35 years 12 ago. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Dollinger, on the bill. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 35 years ago 18 someone made an investment in the lower portion 19 of Hunter Mountain, knowing that the state of 20 New York, with the commandment that the top be 21 forever wild, obviously they made an investment 22 decision that was to their benefit to develop a 23 ski resort knowing that no one would ever own 7776 1 the top part of the mountain because that would 2 always be owned by the state of New York. 3 They'd never have to worry about it being 4 developed by any opposing parties. They'd 5 always know that the top of the mountain was 6 going to be left in its pristine condition. 7 Now, all of a sudden, Hunter 8 Mountain, for some reason, comes to this chamber 9 and says, Well, we're thankful that the state of 10 New York land-banked that land for the last 35 11 years and, in fact, has actually land-banked it 12 since 1920 when it acquired the land, and now 13 what we want to do is expand to the top of the 14 hill. 15 It seems to me, having gotten the 16 benefit for the last 35 years and perhaps even 17 before that, the benefit of knowing that the 18 state of New York wouldn't develop the top, the 19 ski resorts are now coming and saying, We want 20 to develop the top of the mountain and take from 21 the state of New York what we've used for pro 22 tection all these years is a tad disingenuous. 23 I'm convinced by the arguments 7777 1 given by my colleague, Senator Oppenheimer, as 2 elucidated by Senator Waldon, that this is not a 3 good environmental deal, but I also think it's a 4 little bit contrary, a bit of "contraryism", 5 let's put it that way, for a private corporation 6 that has been protected by the state of New York 7 for the last 35 years to now come in and say, 8 Oh, we would like to take part of what the state 9 of New York has on the top of the mountain. 10 It just seems to me it doesn't 11 make good public policy for the reasons 12 elucidated by Senator Oppenheimer and, frankly, 13 it just seems as though this is an organization 14 trying to take advantage of a situation from 15 which it has already benefited. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Cook. 18 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 19 there's nothing unprecedented about this bill. 20 We've made land trades for dumps, land trades 21 for airports, a Constitutional Amendment which 22 permitted the construction of the Northway up 23 through the Adirondacks, and I'm sure that there 7778 1 are a dozen more examples that I could cite, the 2 difference being -- one difference being that 3 this is not a land transfer, because the state 4 of New York is not transferring ownership of the 5 property to a private individual. The ownership 6 remains with the state of New York. The state 7 of New York would be leasing to the private 8 individual. 9 I have to take exception, Mr. 10 President, to the assumption that when you 11 create jobs and you create employment and you 12 create economic opportunity for people that it's 13 not in the public interest. It's great to say 14 let's keep a few trees up there, but you know 15 people have to eat and one of the few things 16 that they can do in a mountainous area is work 17 at the recreational facilities that are 18 available. 19 Senator Waldon, there may not be 20 along trip to the Adirondacks. It's a beautiful 21 drive up there, but I would suggest to you, if 22 you were in New York City and you were going to 23 drive to the Adirondacks, you would really 7779 1 prefer to drive only to Hunter because it's a 2 long haul up there in the wintertime, but our 3 problem indeed is that many people go not to the 4 Adirondacks but to Vermont. 5 We have an opportunity to make 6 this a ski center which can attract more people 7 into the ski centers that are already around us, 8 that help strengthen the cluster, if you will, 9 of ski centers that are available in the 10 Catskills, and to contribute to the economic 11 vitality of that area. 12 I only want to mention one other 13 thing, and that is the water quality issue. We 14 have a problem with the fisheries in that 15 particular stream, and the reason we have a 16 problem with the fisheries is that during the 17 summer the water level gets down quite low and 18 consequently the temperature goes up, and it's 19 not good for the fish. 20 But, Mr. President, they make 21 very, very little snow in August, and that's 22 when the streams are low and when they're taking 23 the water out of this stream is in the winter 7780 1 time and we don't have a water problem in the 2 wintertime, so the whole concept that somehow 3 this is going to be detrimental to the water 4 supply is specious because you don't take the 5 water out. It goes up the mountain and, when it 6 melts, it runs back into into the stream. You 7 aren't shipping it off to some place else. It 8 is simply being recycled, if you will, but being 9 recycled in a way that it has an economic 10 benefit to the area. 11 So, Mr. President, I think that 12 sometimes we get hung up on symbols. We get 13 hung up on the idea that out of millions and 14 millions of acres of land in this state that 15 somehow it's some kind of a crime when we want 16 to use 500 acres of that to help to promote the 17 economy of a portion of this state that has some 18 of the lowest income of the entire state and 19 perhaps of the entire northeast. 20 This is an important project for 21 the economy of the area. It's an important 22 project for jobs of people who desperately need 23 those jobs, and I hope that this house will 7781 1 concur to permit us to move ahead with this 2 project. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 7 just like to - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Why do 9 you rise? 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 11 just like to respond, if I could, to some of 12 the - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Oppenheimer, on the bill. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 16 could ask Senator Cook a question to begin with. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Cook, would you yield to a question from 19 Senator Oppenheimer? 20 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Senator Oppenheimer. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Have you 7782 1 heard what the length of the lease -- the length 2 of the lease -- have you heard what the length 3 of the lease would be? 4 SENATOR COOK: I'm sorry. What 5 -- the what of the lease? 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The length, 7 how many years - 8 SENATOR COOK: Oh, how many 9 years? Senator, this is a Constitutional 10 Amendment, as said in the bill, if you read it, 11 that the provisions of the lease will be spelled 12 out in enabling legislation that will be made 13 available to the voters before the time that 14 this appears on the ballot. So those specifics 15 have not been decided, but that is -- that will 16 be part of what will be placed before the voters 17 before they make their decision. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 19 Senator Cook. 20 On the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Senator Oppenheimer, on the bill. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I have 7783 1 heard that it is likely that what they are going 2 to ask for is a 99-year lease, which I think we 3 discussed this yesterday. It seems like it's 4 several lifetimes. 5 The -- you mentioned that people 6 are going to Vermont and not coming to this area 7 or to the Adirondacks. Well, actually the 8 Adirondacks and Vermont would be sort of equal 9 in distance. So that could merely be a choice 10 of going to the Green Mountains or going to the 11 Adirondacks. They do not go to this area as a 12 vacation destination which is what they do when 13 they go to Vermont very often or to the 14 Adirondacks. 15 This area is a weekend area. It 16 has always been a weekend area because of its 17 proximity to New York City, and the -- what this 18 developer would hope to do, were his proposal to 19 be approved -- and we did the Constitutional 20 Amendment -- is he would try and create a 21 vacation destination place where people would go 22 for a week, and I do not believe that's valid an 23 hour away from New York. People, when they want 7784 1 to go away for a longer trip, have many 2 alternatives. 3 The problem with Hunter Mountain 4 could be resolved, were they to invest some 5 money in their equipment. Their lifts are very, 6 very outdated and they have very few 7 intermediate slopes. 8 Now, if they want to take my 9 recommendation from being a skier in the area, 10 that's what I would say. You can do a lot 11 better on your weekend traffic if you took care 12 of those two things, improved the condition of 13 the lifts and put in intermediate slopes. 14 I would like to make another 15 point. You say that the water is not important. 16 However, the New York State Conservation Council 17 says here that they cannot understand how the 18 Legislature could possibly consider this 19 proposal, which would destroy so much critical 20 fish and wildlife habitat to satisfy private 21 business initiative, and they are strongly 22 opposed to it, and the fact is that, as you 23 know, the snow water is contained in our 7785 1 reservoir system. So truly what happens in your 2 area may not have that much impact on what 3 happens down in our areas because the huge 4 reservoir systems collect that water in the 5 wintertime and ex... and the water flows in the 6 summer because we have collected it in the 7 winter, and all I can say is a billion gallons 8 ain't a little bit coming out of the water 9 faucet. It is an immense amount of water to 10 divert, but most of all, I would say that 11 attacking the "forever wild" clause of our 12 Constitution which has served us so well and has 13 protected the top half of Hunter Mountain all 14 these years should not be violated. 15 So I'll be voting no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On the 17 resolution, the Secretary will call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Slow 20 roll call has been requested. 21 Senator Paterson, there are only 22 three Senators -- I'm sorry -- there are now 23 eight Senators standing. The Secretary will 7786 1 call the roll slowly. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 3 SENATOR ABATE: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 5 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Bruno. 9 (Affirmative indication). 10 Senator Connor. 11 (Negative indication.) 12 Senator Cook. 13 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Dollinger. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 7787 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, to 4 explain my vote. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Gold, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Literally in 17 8 seconds, I want to adopt the entire argument of 9 Senator Oppenheimer and just explain that we are 10 now learning more and more from the English. 11 You don't buy land over there. You buy 12 leaseholds for 99 years, 79 years, 55 years. 13 Those are lifetimes. 14 I vote no. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President 16 -- Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Stafford, are you seeking recognition? 19 I'm sorry, Senator Stafford. I can't hear you. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Can you call 21 my name, please? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Pardon 23 me? 7788 1 Senator Stafford. 2 The Secretary will call. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Very briefly, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Stafford, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: To explain my 9 vote. I don't think anyone will have any 10 question of where I stand on this bill, but I'd 11 like to emphasize, you know, in this day and 12 age, especially -- this has to do with tourism, 13 skiing -- you know, this type of activity makes 14 it possible for us to eat in our area. Eat! 15 Granted, it's very, very 16 important to protect the environment, but please 17 believe me, as one who lives in an area where 18 there are ski areas, believe me, these ski 19 trails do not harm the environment. Please 20 believe me. If anything, they enhance it, and 21 how they enhance it is make it possible for a 22 few more of our people to have a job and put 23 food on the table for themselves and their 7789 1 family. 2 Now, in addition -- in addition, 3 it does provide a great deal of enjoyment for a 4 lot of people. For those of you who ski, you 5 know what I'm talking about, but there isn't, 6 believe me again, a better sport, a better 7 family sport, a better sport that provides, as I 8 say, enjoyment for people, recreation for 9 people, healthy, but again, in our area, in many 10 areas, this is all we have, and when you start 11 talking about the environment and how it's 12 harming it, it does not -- you're using the 13 environment and, again, you're making it 14 possible for us to have at least some semblance 15 of an economy, and I suggest the environment for 16 the people is rather important. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Stafford will be recorded in the 19 affirmative. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 22 Secretary will continue the roll. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 7790 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Goodman. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Hannon. 5 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 7 SENATOR HOBLOCK: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 11 (There was no response.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 15 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 19 SENATOR LACHMAN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 7791 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Leibell. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Libous. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Maltese. 12 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 Senator Gold, I'm sorry. 16 SENATOR GOLD: How did Senator 17 Maltese vote? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 19 Senator Maltese was recorded in the affirmative. 20 Continue the roll. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Marcellino. 23 (There was no response.) 7792 1 Senator Marchi. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Marchi, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr. 5 President. I -- I believe that the use to which 6 it's proposed that this land be used is wholly 7 and completely compatible with the objectives of 8 naturalists, of people who believe that this 9 great beauty that we have, this national 10 treasure, state treasure that we have will not 11 be impaired in any way. In fact, it will be 12 enhanced. 13 If human beings go on it, they 14 don't despoil it. They're going there for 15 recreational purposes, for purposes of 16 enjoyment. It does not degrade or debase that 17 area but exalts it and gives us added importance 18 in terms of the lives -- the impact that it has 19 on the lives of people who are utilizing it and 20 those who make a living because they're entitled 21 to live. 22 So I feel, Mr. President, this is 23 a wholly compatible use and deserves full 7793 1 support because it serves all of the purposes 2 that we all share on various aspects of the 3 dispute. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 Secretary will continue to call the roll. 6 Senator Marchi in the 7 affirmative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Markowitz. 10 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Montgomery. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 19 SENATOR NANULA: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 23 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 7794 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Oppenheimer. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her vote. 5 Senator Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Very 7 briefly. I'd just like to respond to -- I will 8 be voting no, but I would like to mention a 9 couple of things that came up. 10 I appreciate what Senator Marchi 11 was saying, that we can, with humans walking or 12 hiking or camping in wilderness area, "forever 13 wild" area, forest preserve area that, yes, we 14 just leave our foot fingerprints, hopefully, no 15 trash, and it is an enhancement. It is 16 wonderful for the human being to be able to be 17 out in that kind of "forever wild" environment. 18 However, a ski slope requires 19 cutting down a goodly number of trees and 20 they're planning on adding 25 or 30 different 21 runs. That means the decimation of an enormous 22 number of trees. In taking up the roots of the 23 trees, you use a lot of water and in addition, 7795 1 water will be diverted in order to make the 2 snow. So that is where the billion gallons of 3 water would be taken from what is our supply of 4 water in the downstate New York area. 5 The other thing I would like to 6 say is that Hunter is currently about the size 7 of a mountain that I'm very, very familiar with 8 because I have a home there. It's Jiminy Peak. 9 It's quite close to this area of Albany, and 10 they want to expand it to make it more the size 11 of Gore Mountain. This size would not make it a 12 vacation destination and it's unlikely to 13 attract skiers for longer than the weekend which 14 it now does do. 15 I can tell you that at my 16 mountain, at the mountain where I've been 17 located, Jiminy Peak, for the last 30 years, we 18 have a very, very successful mountain and we 19 have a successful mountain because the 20 management is excellent, because it has made 21 improvements. Every single year, an improvement 22 is made. The equipment is not permitted to 23 deteriorate. We have slopes for all different 7796 1 types of skiers. It is probably one of the most 2 successful small mountains in the east here. 3 And so what I would recommend is 4 in order to attract those -- those additional 5 jobs -- which I certainly feel very strongly 6 about. It's very distressing to me to hear when 7 people are trying to pit economic development 8 and jobs against the environment. There is no 9 need that they be enemies because in the states 10 that have very strong environmental law, they 11 are the same states that are doing very well in 12 economic development. 13 So I think we have to look at how 14 to accommodate to both, and there is a way, and 15 I would be delighted to talk to Senator Cook 16 about the various improvements that could be 17 made that would vastly increase and improve the 18 situation at Hunter Mountain. 19 I vote no. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded in the 22 negative. 23 Resume the roll call. 7797 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Paterson, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: No, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 9 Continue the roll call. Excuse me. Wait. 10 Could we just have it a little more quiet in the 11 room, please. 12 I'm sorry. Senator Stafford. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm sorry. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 Continue the roll call, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 19 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Explain my vote, 22 Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7798 1 Senator Saland, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 3 was in the chamber for virtually all of the 4 debate and when I was out of the chamber, I was 5 able to hear much if not all of it on the box. 6 I certainly understood the 7 direction from which Senator Cook was 8 proceeding, and to be perfectly honest with you, 9 I found some of the arguments in opposition to 10 be rather elitist, rather patronizing and 11 certainly difficult to comprehend. 12 I well appreciate the importance 13 to many of the EPL ratings, but let me suggest 14 to you what you could do with each of those 15 smokestacks and you can do it one at a time, two 16 at a time or three at a time. 17 I vote in support of this bill 18 which I believe is imperative for Senator Cook's 19 area, imperative certainly for a portion of the 20 Adirondacks*, an area which is desperately 21 seeking economic development, not merely as 22 something that somehow or other is superfluous 23 but something that is essential to the day-to 7799 1 day lives and the failure to put this out and 2 put it on the ballot will basically be, in 3 effect, turning our back on a large segment of 4 the population of the state of New York. 5 I vote in support. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Saland will be recorded in the 8 affirmative. 9 Resume the roll call. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago, 11 excused. 12 Senator Seabrook. 13 SENATOR SEABROOK: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 15 SENATOR SEARS: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 17 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 21 SENATOR SMITH: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 7800 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Stachowski. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Stachowski, to explain his vote. 5 Senator Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 7 President, not having the same kind of 8 experience or ability with little chimneys that 9 apparently Senator Saland has, I vote in the 10 negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Stachowski will be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will resume the 15 roll call. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 17 voting in the affirmative earlier. 18 Senator Stavisky, excused. 19 Senator Trunzo. 20 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Velella. 7801 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Explain my vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Waldon, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR WALDON: I'm very wont 9 and reluctant to ever vote against the interest 10 of a colleague in terms of their home base, and 11 if you review my record here, that is quite 12 true. However, I am very familiar with Hunter 13 Mountain. 14 Since 1961, my wife and children 15 and I and her Aunt Regina and Uncle Benny 16 Bather, 110 acres on Story Mountain, have spent 17 many fine summers and winters in terms of 18 vacation and recreation. Benny Bather, my 19 wife's uncle has worked at Hunter Mountain, even 20 as recently as last year for a period of about 21 15 or 20 years. 22 I'm familiar with 28. In fact, 23 Dick Coombe invited me to an event to support 7802 1 Hunter Mountain at Big Indian and those of you 2 who are from the area know the place I'm talking 3 about, the restaurant. 4 I know Phoenicia. I know 5 Woodstock. I know that entire area, and so it's 6 with great reluctance that I oppose the position 7 that Senator Cook has taken on this issue and 8 Senator Stafford, but I think there comes a time 9 when you have to weigh what is in the best 10 interests of all of the people. 11 And so respectfully, I submit to 12 you that I believe the best interests of the 13 people of the state of New York is in saving 14 Hunter Mountain as opposed to doing things which 15 may, in my opinion, prove to be destructive. 16 My dear colleague from the Bronx, 17 the Honorable Larry Seabrook, said earlier wild 18 forever, and so that's what I want for Hunter 19 Mountain, the top of Hunter Mountain, to be wild 20 forever. I think that's what God meant for it 21 to be, and I will vote in the no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Waldon will be recorded in the negative. 7803 1 The Secretary will continue the 2 roll call. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 6 the absentees. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator DiCarlo. 10 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Goodman. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Holland. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 18 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I have listened to the debate, 7804 1 and I think Senator Oppenheimer has raised some 2 good points. Senator Cook has raised some good 3 points, along with Senator Stafford, but one of 4 the things that has bothered me about the debate 5 -- and it's unfortunate that there's not a 6 mechanism here as we had with the pine barrens 7 to bring all of the stakeholders together to 8 talk out some of these issues, but what disturbs 9 me is the fact that there can be -- there can be 10 uses of keeping property "forever wild" along 11 with uses for recreation, and we can have 12 entrepreneurial interests that can develop those 13 properties so that many people in this state who 14 enjoy skiing can utilize what the Lord has put 15 here for us to be fully utilized. 16 As I understand, this is the 17 first passage of this Constitutional Amendment, 18 and I think that there probably has to be a 19 further discussion on this, but I'm going to 20 support Senator Cook in this first passage with 21 the understanding that it will today hopefully 22 bring people together to discuss the issues that 23 have been raised today, and I know we've 7805 1 mentioned here three smokestacks, two smoke 2 stacks, but I think once in a while you have to 3 put aside what EPL has to say, and I think we've 4 got to advance a process, and that's what this 5 body is all about. 6 So I vote in the affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Senator LaValle will be recorded in the 9 affirmative. 10 The Secretary will continue the 11 roll call. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Marcellino. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 22 (Affirmative indication) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7806 1 Announce the results. 2 Senator Goodman. I'm sorry. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 4 (Negative indication) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Goodman recorded in the negative. 7 Senator Tully, were you seeking 8 recognition? 9 Senator Levy. 10 SENATOR LEVY: Senator Levy, aye. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Levy in the affirmative. The results, 13 please. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33, nays 24. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 16 resolution is adopted. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 19 Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Can I please 21 have unanimous consent to be voted in the 22 negative on Calendar Number 1228, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7807 1 Without objection, so ordered. 2 Senator Montgomery. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Mr. 4 President, I would like unanimous consent to be 5 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1457. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Without objection, so ordered. 8 Senator - 9 SENATOR NANULA: I would like the 10 record to reflect that had I been in the chamber 11 when Calendar Number 900 was voted on, I would 12 have voted in the negative. I had business that 13 took me out of the chamber at that time. Once 14 again, I would have voted in the negative on 15 Calendar Number 900. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 17 record will so reflect. 18 Senator Skelos -- I'm sorry - 19 Senator Rath. 20 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 21 would like to be recorded in the negative on 22 Calendar Number 1440, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7808 1 Without objection, so ordered. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 4 call up Senator Kuhl's bill, Calendar Number 5 1280. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1280, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3356, an act 10 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been requested 13 of Calendar Number 1280 by the Minority Leader, 14 Senator Connor. 15 Excuse me, Senator Kuhl. Could 16 we please have a little quiet in the chamber. 17 Senator Kuhl has a touch of a cold. It's 18 difficult to hear. 19 Senator Kuhl. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 21 President. Thank you. 22 Probably the easiest way to 23 explain this bill is to read it. It's only four 7809 1 lines in nature, and I don't have to read the 2 entire piece of it, but this bill applies to 3 children under the age of 14, and it says that 4 they don't -- or would not be required to wear 5 bicycle helmets when riding a bicycle if, in 6 fact, their religious tenets were established 7 and prohibited the wearing of those helmets, if 8 they had some other attire that they needed to 9 wear. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 We had a rather extensive and I 15 think quite interesting discussion last week 16 that included Senator Lachman who advised us of 17 some court rulings pertaining to issues in other 18 states that were similar to what Senator Kuhl is 19 raising. 20 We thought that the language of 21 the legislation was a little bit overbroad and 22 could be interpreted in ways that would be 23 somewhat destructive to public safety and also 7810 1 bicycle safety in other parts of the state. 2 But Senator Kuhl is actually 3 speaking to a particular group of individuals in 4 his district, the Mennonites who don't ride 5 bicycles but -- so quickly, but in many cases 6 use bicycles that are as much as 50 and 60 years 7 old and that they don't have any record or 8 reputation for failure to operate the -- the 9 bicycles safely and because of the unique garb 10 that they adorn while operating the cycles, they 11 are actually affected, and it's a problem for 12 the -- these individuals in his district, and we 13 understand that, and what Senator Lachman 14 pointed out in the debate is that it was held in 15 the United States Supreme Court that -- I 16 believe in the state of Wisconsin they had a 17 similar issue and that where you could 18 demonstrate that there was specific conduct in 19 addition to the protected class of people, that 20 you actually could legislate for what would be a 21 specific group. 22 We have been unable to provide 23 Senator Kuhl with the actual language to amend 7811 1 the bill, but should this bill not become law 2 and come back next year, we would offer to work 3 with Senator Kuhl to fashion the correct 4 language such that this legislation would be 5 applicable to the individuals in his district 6 but would not create the plethora of problems 7 that we would have particularly in New York City 8 if the actual religious garb could be used in a 9 sense to work around what would be the Public 10 Safety Law. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, we 15 all understand what is behind this, and I am 16 going to support Senator Kuhl. I absolutely 17 believe that it is a proper function of this 18 Legislature to make exceptions to laws in proper 19 cases to allow people to do things which we 20 consider religious freedom. It has certainly 21 happened in other cases. 22 Having said that, I would ask the 23 chairman of our Rules Committee to please 7812 1 recognize that with the help of Senator Goodman, 2 there is a bill in Rules which would allow 3 Orthodox Jewish owners of liquor stores and 4 others the option of closing on their Sabbath 5 and remaining open on Sunday if that is the 6 community need, and with the same sincerity and 7 desire to cooperate as I am now going to show 8 towards Senator Kuhl who I greatly respect - 9 even though he does talk while other people putt 10 -- I would like the Rules Committee to consider 11 that this is the year the bill that I have in 12 that committee has been amended to give a 13 consideration to some of the groups who are 14 concerned who own stores, but it is absolutely 15 time to recognize the legitimate needs of 16 Orthodox Jews who operate liquor stores in their 17 community to be able to open on Sunday as every 18 other kind of business is open in those 19 communities. 20 I vote yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 22 the last section. 23 I'm sorry. Senator Lachman. 7813 1 SENATOR LACHMAN: I rise at this 2 point in support of Senator Kuhl's bill and 3 Senator Gold's bill in the Rules Committee but 4 specifically on the bill that is under 5 consideration. 6 In the Supreme Court decision 7 that I cited last time, Wisconsin versus Yoder 8 1972 which dealt with the Amish population in 9 Wisconsin, the U.S. Supreme Court specifically 10 stated that unless the state can show a 11 compelling interest to intervene with a 12 religious group, they should stay out of it. 13 There is no compelling interest, as I see it, 14 with the legislation that is now before this 15 chamber. 16 I would have changed, as Senator 17 Kuhl knows, a few words in the legislation, but 18 I'm proud to support the legislation because 19 it's in keeping with the First Amendment of the 20 Constitution which states besides that there 21 should be no establishment of religion, it also 22 permits the free exercise thereof, and I have to 23 commend Senator Kuhl because he is doing this 7814 1 for a small group in his district, Mennonites 2 who aren't Democrats or Republicans and 3 frequently do not even vote. So in that sense, 4 he has nothing to gain from it or to lose from 5 it. 6 This, ladies and gentlemen, is a 7 non-partisan issue. It's in keeping with the 8 pluralism of our nation and the desire of the 9 framers of the U.S. Constitution not only to 10 disestablish religion but allow religion to grow 11 without inhibiting it, and this would inhibit 12 the religious beliefs of the Mennonite 13 population in Senator Kuhl's district. 14 I, therefore, vote Aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Kuhl. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, 18 just briefly on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Kuhl, on the bill. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Those of you who 22 were in the chamber last week when we first 23 brought this bill up remember that we discussed 7815 1 the many aspects of it and variations, and 2 Senator Lachman had a lot to, I think, lend to 3 the discussion, as did Senator Paterson, also 4 Senator Stachowski. At that time I laid the 5 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson 6 and Senator Lachman to talk about the 7 possibility of amending the bill, and Senator 8 Lachman did provide me with some language which 9 we had the opportunity to review and discuss, 10 and it was my opinion that perhaps that created 11 more problems than the bill as presently 12 designed. So we had brought the bill back in 13 the same form, but I want to thank all of them 14 for participating in the process to try to make 15 what I perceive as good legislation even better, 16 even though it hasn't resulted in a change, but 17 I certainly appreciate their support. 18 It is a need in my district, one 19 that as I indicated, allows a religious sect to 20 continue to practice their religion without 21 interference coming from this state Legislature, 22 and I don't think that's what any of us intended 23 to do when we were dealing with the safety 7816 1 aspects of adopting legislation to provide -- to 2 try to protect our innocent children and provide 3 certain kinds of protections for their benefit 4 that they wouldn't necessarily willingly or 5 knowingly even start to ensue. 6 So I would ask the Secretary to 7 read the last section at this time. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 13 the roll. 14 Senator Libous, to explain his 15 vote. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 This is a very difficult vote for 22 me. As has been explained by some of my 23 colleagues, I certainly have the utmost respect 7817 1 for anyone's religion and religious 2 affiliations, and I certainly would never 3 interfere in that. 4 However, having -- one who chairs 5 the Committee on Mental Health and Developmental 6 Disabilities and one who authored the original 7 legislation for head injury, to set up a Head 8 Injury Institute and one who has sat by the 9 bedside of young children who have experienced a 10 head injury due to a bicycle accident, it is 11 very difficult for me to vote in favor of this 12 and, Mr. President, because of that, I think 13 it's important that I do explain my vote and, 14 again, this is -- should not be interpreted to 15 have any negative reflection on anyone's 16 religion but, as I said, it's those memories of 17 being with a child under 14 who has experienced 18 a head injury, who's been in a coma, I only 19 think that this piece of legislation should be 20 voted against, and I vote no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 2, 7818 1 Senators Libous and Montgomery recorded in the 2 negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 4 bill is passed. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time if 9 we could take up Supplemental Calendar Number 1, 10 regular order -- actually, what we would like to 11 do is with the consent of the Minority, call up 12 Calendar Number 1482, by Senator Goodman, on 13 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1482, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5386-B, 18 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 19 relation to the determination of adjusted base 20 proportions. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Gold. 7819 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I believe 2 this bill was the subject of some discussion in 3 the Rules Committee. Is this -- hold on one 4 second. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: As I said, Mr. 9 President, this bill was the bill which was 10 discussed in the Rules Committee and there was 11 some confusion and to be very candid, the reason 12 for the confusion was the failure of the city of 13 New York to clarify their situation. 14 It wasn't until, I guess late 15 today when the City woke up to the problem as it 16 often unfortunately does at the last minute, and 17 I have now received a memo from the City 18 clarifying it, and apparently this bill would 19 not only help Manhattan but would also be 20 helpful in the counties of Queens and some other 21 counties. 22 So while we expressed some 23 reservation in the Rules Committee -- at least I 7820 1 did -- my reservations have been satisfied by 2 the City's memo. We could have saved some time 3 in Rules and even out here if the City was just 4 a little bit more attentive to their duties. 5 I'm going to vote yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Could we then 18 take up the supplemental calendar, regular 19 order, starting with Calendar Number 1480. 1448 20 will be laid aside for the day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7821 1 1448, Senator Maltese moves to discharge from 2 the Committee on Judiciary Assembly Bill Number 3 1111 and substitute it for the identical Senate 4 Bill 738. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 6 substitution is ordered. Lay the bill aside for 7 the day. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1480, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3088-A, an 10 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 11 direct sellers. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 21 bill is passed. 22 Senator Gonzalez. 23 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes, Mr. 7822 1 President. Without objection, may I be recorded 2 in the affirmative on Calendar Number 900. 3 SENATOR GOLD: In the 4 affirmative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Gonzalez, the record will reflect that 7 had you been in the chamber at the time that you 8 would have voted in the affirmative. 9 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: But, 11 unfortunately, it was a slow roll call. 12 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 15 you, Senator. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1481, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 4142, an 19 act to allow Jack Walfish, a retired member of 20 the New York State Teachers Retirement system, 21 to purchase military credit. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 23 the last section. 7823 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Skelos. I'm sorry. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 11 there's some housekeeping at the desk that 12 should be taken care of at this point. If we 13 could return to motions and resolutions. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Return 15 to motions and resolutions. 16 Senator Farley. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 18 Senator Rath, Mr. President, on page 24, I offer 19 the following amendments to Calendar 939, Senate 20 Print 7153-A, and I ask that that bill retain 21 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 amendments are received. 7824 1 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 2 Senator Marchi, on page 41, I offer the 3 following amendments to Calendar Number 1397, 4 Senate Print 7535, and I ask that that bill 5 retain its place. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 7 amendments are received. 8 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 9 Senator Skelos, on page 46, I offer the 10 following amendments to Calendar 1437, Senate 11 Print 2459-A, and I ask that that bill retain 12 its place. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 14 amendments are received. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. On behalf 19 of Senator Spano, I wish to call up his bill, 20 Print Number 6575, recalled from the Assembly 21 which is now at the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 Secretary will read. 7825 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Spano, 2 Senate Print 6575, an act to amend the Labor 3 Law. 4 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 5 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 6 bill was passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 8 the roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 13 now offer the following amendments. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 amendments are received. 16 SENATOR SEWARD: And on behalf of 17 Senator Goodman, I wish to call up his bill, 18 Print Number 6344, recalled from the Assembly 19 which is now at the desk. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 21 Secretary will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 23 Goodman, Senate Print 6344, an act to amend the 7826 1 Vehicle and Traffic Law. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 3 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 4 bill was passed. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 6 the roll on reconsideration. 7 (The Secretary called the roll on 8 reconsideration.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Leichter. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, I 13 now - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: I'm 15 sorry. Senator Seward. 16 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. I now 17 offer the following amendments to Print Number 18 6344. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 20 amendments are received. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Leichter. 7827 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 3 the negative on Calendars 1228 and 1426, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Without objection, so ordered. 6 The Secretary will read the 7 substitutions. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 15, 9 Senator Johnson moves to discharge from the 10 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 3490-A 11 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 12 2281-A. 13 Senator Maziarz moves to 14 discharge from the Committee on Rules Assembly 15 Bill Number 7760-B and substitute it for the 16 identical Senate Bill 6355-B. 17 On page 22, Senator Skelos moves 18 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 19 Assembly Bill Number 1311-C and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill 6724-A. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Substitutions are ordered. 23 The Secretary will continue with 7828 1 the non-controversial calendar. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1483 - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 1483 5 is high. Lay the bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1484, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 6096, an 8 act to amend the Social Services Law and the 9 Mental Hygiene Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1485 - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 bill is high. Lay it aside. 7829 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1486, by Senator Nanula, Senate Print 6578, an 3 act in relation to allowing certain persons in 4 New York State and Local Employees Retirement 5 System. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1487 - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 19 bill is high. Lay it aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1488 - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 bill is high. Lay it aside. 7830 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1489, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7254-A, an 3 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 4 Law. 5 SENATOR TRUNZO: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 7 the bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1490, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7297-A, an 10 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 11 relation to duties of the director of real 12 property tax services. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7831 1 1491, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7455, an 2 act to amend the Facilities Development 3 Corporation Act. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 6 the bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1492, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7556, an 9 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure 10 Act, in relation to clarifying the definition of 11 a rule. 12 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay it aside 13 for the day. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 15 the bill aside for the day at the request of the 16 sponsor. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1493, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7561, an act 19 to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 20 Agriculture and Markets Law. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 23 the bill aside. 7832 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1494, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7562, an act 3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 4 to the definition of special franchise property. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 7 the bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1495, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 7563-A, 10 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 11 relation to planning for future capital 12 improvement. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7833 1 1496, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7580, an 2 act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection 3 Act. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Lay 6 the bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1497, Senator Levy moves to discharge from the 9 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 10583 10 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 11 7589. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 13 the last section -- the substitution is 14 ordered. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1497, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 17 Assembly Bill 10583, an act to amend the Vehicle 18 and Traffic Law, in relation to the maximum 19 length of buses. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7834 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1498 - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 10 bill is high. Lay it aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1499, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 7679, an 13 act authorizing the city of Schenectady to 14 discontinue use as parklands. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 There's a home rule message at the desk. Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7835 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1500, Senator DeFrancisco moves to discharge 5 from the Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6 10477 and substitute it for the identical Senate 7 Bill 7696. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 9 substitution is ordered. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1500, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 12 Assembly Print Number 10477, an act authorizing 13 a transfer into retirement plans. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 There's a home rule message at the desk. Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 7836 1 bill is passed. 2 Senator Skelos, that completes 3 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 5 if we could take up Supplemental Calendar Number 6 1, controversial. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1489, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7254-A, an 11 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 12 Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Trunzo, an explanation has been 15 requested by Senator Leichter. 16 SENATOR TRUNZO: This legislation 17 would allow former members of the New York State 18 Employment Retirement System who are employees 19 of the -- assistant district attorneys, 20 assistant attorney generals, as assistant 21 counsels for the state agencies to obtain up to 22 five years prior service credit for the New York 23 State Police and Fire Retirement System. 7837 1 These men had to have those 2 qualifications in order to be transferred, had 3 to give up their ERS -- yeah, the Employment 4 Retirement System pension to join the police - 5 the state trooper system and as a result, what 6 we're doing here is let them take credit for at 7 least five years of those years that they were 8 with the ERS, the Employment Retirement System. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 10 Senator Leichter. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 12 if Senator Trunzo would yield. 13 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 Senator Trunzo, would you yield to a question? 16 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just so I see 20 that I understand it, that we're allowing prior 21 service up to five years for those people who 22 worked as assistant district attorneys or 23 assistant counsel for any state agency. 7838 1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Four people - 2 it only amounts to four people, Senator. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: It amounts to 4 four people? 5 SENATOR TRUNZO: Just four 6 people. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, that was 8 my next question, Senator, whether, you know, 9 there were any particular individuals we were 10 benefiting, and if we were -- and you indicated 11 already, all four people -- I mean, are there 12 other people similarly situated that should be 13 brought in? 14 SENATOR TRUNZO: Well, for the 15 positions that they presently hold with the - 16 with the troopers, the qualification background 17 required that they not only leave the ERS, the 18 Employee Retirement System, but have the 19 background of being either an attorney -- a 20 district attorney, you know, the attorney 21 general's office, that type of background, 22 otherwise, they could not hold the positions 23 with the troopers and, therefore, part of the 7839 1 equity of trying to put it all together. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 3 the last section. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just a second. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: I'm 6 sorry. Senator Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, 8 Senator. You know these bills tend to be 9 somewhat confusing. What position do these 10 people hold now, these four? 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: One is a legal 12 counsel to the State Police. The others are 13 assistant counsels to the State Police. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -- if 15 you would continue to yield, Senator. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Trunzo, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes, yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: The thing I 22 can't understand -- I can understand that those 23 who worked as assistant district attorneys maybe 7840 1 were -- let's say if they weren't in the city of 2 New York in a different system, but if they 3 worked as an assistant attorney general, weren't 4 they part of the same state retirement system 5 and didn't they receive credit for their - 6 SENATOR TRUNZO: No, they did not 7 receive credit. They had to -- they had to 8 relinquish the -- the Employment Retirement 9 System. They had to relinquish that system to 10 get into the trooper system. That was a 11 requirement with the job. They had to 12 relinquish themselves from the Employee 13 Retirement System in order to join the trooper 14 system. That's a requirement of the job. That 15 was a requirement of the job that evidently in 16 law by -- Section 381 (d) of the law says that 17 they have to -- first of all, they have to have 18 had prior service as either a county district 19 attorney's office or a state Department of Law 20 or assistant counsel for a state agency and the 21 service credit in those positions, as most 22 positions within the state Civil Service, 23 applied to the New York State ERS. 7841 1 Now, when joining the State 2 Police, these individuals were required to leave 3 the Employee Retirement System and join the 4 State Police in the 381 (d) of the Retirement 5 and Social Security Law. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 7 Senator, if you would be good enough to continue 8 to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 10 Senator Trunzo, do you continue to yield to 11 Senator Leichter? 12 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: The state 16 troopers, aren't they part of the same 17 retirement system? 18 SENATOR TRUNZO: The state 19 troopers are part of the police and - 20 retirement system -- the police and fire - 21 section of the police and fire system, which is 22 Section 381 (b) of the retirement -- of the 23 police and fire retirement system, all troopers 7842 1 are in that system, and these four gentlemen who 2 transferred from these other agencies had the 3 background, had to go into that system as well 4 and give up their time that they had with the 5 Employee Retirement System and, therefore, we're 6 requesting here that they can get up to five 7 years of that -- that they can carry over into 8 the police retirement system -- into the 9 troopers. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think I 11 understand but, Senator, let me ask you this, if 12 you would continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Trunzo, do you continue to yield to 15 Senator Leichter? 16 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: The same 20 situation then would apply to somebody, let's 21 say who was in the Teachers Retirement System 22 and joined the troopers, right? They would also 23 then be in a different - 7843 1 SENATOR TRUNZO: Chances are they 2 would probably be. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, why 4 don't -- well, this bill is obviously very 5 narrowly drawn for these people. Shouldn't 6 there be a bill then which would provide that 7 anybody who has credit -- service that is 8 credited to the state retirement system who then 9 become part of the State Police ought to be 10 given credit for that -- that service? 11 SENATOR TRUNZO: These specific 12 positions, Senator, they must have the 13 background in those other positions that I 14 mentioned before. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Thank 16 you, Senator. 17 SENATOR TRUNZO: Read the last 18 section. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: At 20 Senator Trunzo's request, we'll read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7844 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1491, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7455, an 9 act to amend the Facilities Development 10 Corporation Act. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Senator Hannon, an explanation has been 14 requested by Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. This bill 16 deals with a number of technical changes in 17 regard to the Dormitory Authority, mainly to 18 implement the merger of the Medical Care 19 Facilities Corporation into the Dormitory 20 Authority which was done last year. It would 21 also allow the Dormitory Authority to administer 22 the Mental Hygiene Construction Fund in the same 23 manner that it currently administers other 7845 1 public construction and financing programs. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 3 the last section. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Just 8 looking through it quickly, Senator Hannon, if 9 you would be good enough to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Hannon, would you yield to Senator 12 Leichter for a question? 13 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, sir. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 15 Senator Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is 17 there any -- other than to implement that 18 merger, is there any changes in the powers of 19 the Dormitory Authority? 20 SENATOR HANNON: Well, I would 21 think that what I said in my statement about the 22 mental hygiene construction program is to -- to 23 the extent there were any changes before is to 7846 1 bring that in line with the rest of its public 2 construction. Now, is that change? I don't 3 know if that covers or is not covered by your 4 question, but I just want to flag that. 5 Now, other changes, it's mainly a 6 cleanup section in regard to all of this. I 7 have a very careful memo from the Authority that 8 I would be very happy to provide to you. It's 9 been on file, and it lists the changes. It 10 lists the existing law and from my reading of it 11 -- my reading of the statute, I don't think 12 this does anything but what I said it does, and 13 I'd be very happy to give you this copy of the 14 memo. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 16 I'd be happy to look at it, but we have the bill 17 before us now. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Well, the memo 19 has been in existence, dated February 14th and 20 it probably - 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: You know, I 22 asked for it on February 15th because I saw that 23 bill was on and, unfortunately, I put it in my 7847 1 desk and I didn't read it. So I apologize. I 2 know that everybody else has read that memo but 3 -- so bear with me. 4 On page 15, line 35, I see there 5 seems to be some change regarding procurement 6 contracts. It doesn't seem to be a very 7 significant change but - 8 SENATOR HANNON: It deals not 9 with -- well, in procurement contracts in the 10 sense that they have to be mentioned in the 11 Procurement Opportunity Newsletter, and it says, 12 though, that if contract is for less than 13 $10,000, I believe the effect of that is it 14 doesn't have to be listed in the newsletter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, 16 Senator. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 22. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7848 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 3 bill is passed. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 8 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 9 332 of the Capitol. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 There's an immediate meeting of the Rules 12 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. An 13 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1493, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7561, an act 17 to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the 18 Agriculture and Markets Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 20 the last section. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7849 1 Senator Rath, an explanation has been requested 2 of Calendar Number 1493 by the Acting Minority 3 Leader, Senator Paterson. 4 Senator Rath. 5 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 The bill -- there are two bills 8 that you see before you, this one and the next 9 one, both of which were laid aside, and they're 10 both as a result of what is a clarifying bill 11 that's done near the end of session every year 12 at the request of the Office of Real Property 13 Services. 14 The Assembly -- with the consent 15 of the Assembly, we split the one bill into 16 three sections and they now have corresponding 17 bills in the Assembly. One of the three bills 18 that we split this into passed on June 10th. 19 The other two are in front of us today. 20 The first one that you're looking 21 at repeals -- let's see -- wait a minute. Make 22 sure I've got the right one going here. This is 23 the one that speaks to the -- okay. This is the 7850 1 one that speaks to improvements to property that 2 are being made by persons who are disabled and 3 they're attempting to remove architectural 4 barriers and what has happened is that in 1995, 5 Chapter 648 was passed and it wasn't correct in 6 the sense that it wasn't workable, and when the 7 people got out there in the field, they started 8 working through it and they saw that they had to 9 readjust the language. So all we've done is 10 adjust the language. Instead of saying 11 "disabled improvements", we're now saying 12 "improvements to property made pursuant to the 13 Americans with Disabilities Act". It's three or 14 four pieces just like that. If you want me to 15 go further with you I will, but that's basically 16 what this one is. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 18 the last section. 19 I'm sorry. Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 21 if Senator Rath would yield for a question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Rath, would you yield for a question 7851 1 from Senator Paterson? 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, does 4 this legislation repeal the veterans alternative 5 exemption in property taxes? 6 SENATOR RATH: No, it does not. 7 This is merely a language change to make it more 8 easily understood, the one that was chaptered 9 last year -- 648 that was chaptered last year. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. So then 11 it's already expired, so it's okay. 12 SENATOR RATH: Yes. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 bill is passed. 7852 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1494, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7562, an act 3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 4 to the definition of special franchised 5 property. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1496, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7580, an 18 act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act 19 of 1974. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 23 President. Considering the hour and we would 7853 1 like to speak on the legislation, would the 2 sponsor consider just laying this aside for the 3 day? 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The sponsor 5 would agree to lay this aside for the day. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: What a kind 7 sponsor. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 9 bill will be laid aside for the day at the 10 request of the sponsor. 11 Senator Marcellino. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. Mr. 13 President. Is there any housekeeping up there? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: No, 15 there is no housekeeping at the desk. 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Then, Mr. 17 President, we should stand at ease pending the 18 report of the Rules Committee. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 20 Senate will stand at ease pending a report of 21 the Rules Committee. 22 (Whereupon, at 5:50 p.m., the 23 Senate was at ease until 6:02 p.m.) 7854 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Report from the 4 Rules Committee, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Reports of standing committees. 7 The Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 9 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 10 following bills directly for third reading: 11 302A, by Senator Kruger, an act 12 to amend the Penal Law; 13 2701, by Senator Stavisky, an act 14 to amend the Penal Law; 15 6579B, by Senator Nanula, an act 16 granting certain retirement service credit; 17 7594A, by Senator Wright, an act 18 authorizing the apportionment of transportation 19 aid; 20 7612, by Senator Leibell, an act 21 to legalize, ratify, and confirm the acts and 22 proceedings of the Board of Education; 23 7613, by the Senate Committee on 7855 1 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 268 of the Laws 2 of 1989; 3 7625, by Senator Lack, an act to 4 amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act; 5 7627, by the Senate Committee on 6 Rules, an act to amend the Public Authorities 7 Law; 8 7638, by Senator Maltese, an act 9 to amend the Election Law; 10 7641, by Senator Stafford, an act 11 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 12 7643, by Senator Bruno, an act in 13 relation to authorizing Tier I status; 14 7648, by Senator Present, an act 15 legalizing, ratifying and confirming; 16 7655A, by Senator Levy, an act to 17 amend the Transportation Law; 18 7656, by Senator Rath, an act to 19 amend the Real Property Tax Law; 20 7657, by Senator Tully, an act to 21 amend the Environmental Conservation Law; 22 7659, by Senator Volker, an act 23 to amend the Executive Law; 7856 1 7667, by Senator Maziarz, an act 2 authorizing the payment of transportation aid; 3 7689, by the Senate Committee on 4 Rules, an act to amend Chapter 884 of the Laws 5 of 1990; 6 7707, by Senator Maziarz, an act 7 to incorporate the Wheatfield Volunteer 8 Firemen's Benevolent Association; 9 7709A, by Senator LaValle, an act 10 to amend the Local Finance Law; 11 7710, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 12 amend the Navigation Law; 13 7712, by the Senate Committee on 14 Rules, an act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage 15 Control Law; 16 7730, by Senator Hoblock, an act 17 to amend the Labor Law; 18 7731, by Senator Holland, an act 19 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 20 7734, by the Senate Committee on 21 Rules, an act to amend Section 20 of Chapter 231 22 of the Laws of 1993; 23 Senate 7764, by Senator Hannon, 7857 1 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 2 All bills directly for third 3 reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All in 5 favor of accepting the report of the Rules 6 Committee, signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The report is accepted. 11 Senator Holland. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 13 is there any housekeeping? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: There 15 is no housekeeping at the desk. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Then I move we 17 adjourn until tomorrow, Thursday, the 13th of 18 June, at 10:00 a.m. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 20 motion, the Senate stands adjourned in honor of 21 our distinguished colleague on the occasion of 22 his 60th birthday, Senator Joseph Holland. All 23 your colleagues stand and give you a rousing 7858 1 round of applause. 2 (Applause) 3 Senate is adjourned. 4 (Whereupon, at 6:05 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23