Thursday, June 13, 1996

7859 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 13, 1996 11 10:03 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 7860 1 P R O C E E D I N G S. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their places, staff to find their places. 5 Ask everybody in the chamber to rise and join 6 with me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance to 7 the Flag. Please stand after that for the 8 invocation. 9 (The assemblage repeated the 10 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 11 We're very please to be joined by 12 the Reverend Roy Olsen of the Calvary Assembly 13 of God, Pleasantville, New York. Reverend Olsen. 14 REVEREND ROY OLSEN: Let us 15 pray. 16 Almighty God, Creator of the 17 heavens and the earth, we thank You for Your 18 awesome love, for those of us gathered here as 19 well as those over whom we govern. We pray, 20 Father, for Your blessing upon us, upon them as 21 well. We pray for Your wisdom, Your strength 22 and Your convictions, that we might lead our 23 state in Your righteousness and in Your ways 7861 1 that we might all prosper in spirit, in soul and 2 in body. 3 We pray, Father, for the business 4 of this day that you will give us wisdom again 5 to deliberate and to decide according to Your 6 wisdom, which ultimately will prevail, as being 7 the best. This we pray in the name of the 8 Prince of Peace. Amen. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 10 of the Journal. 11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 12 Wednesday, June 12th. The Senate met pursuant 13 to adjournment. Prayer by the Reverend Walter 14 Kortrey, Emanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church, 15 Pleasantville. The Journal of Tuesday, June 16 11th, was read and approved. On motion, Senate 17 adjourned. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 19 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 20 read. 21 Presentation of petitions. 22 Messages from the Assembly. 23 Messages from the Governor. 7862 1 Reports of standing committees. 2 Reports of select committees. 3 Communications and reports from 4 state officers. 5 Motions and resolutions. 6 Senator Marcellino. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 8 President, I wish to call up Senator Leibell's 9 bill, Print Number 6004, recalled from the 10 Assembly which is now at the desk. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the title. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 343, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6004, an 15 act to amend the Insurance Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I now move 19 to reconsider the vote by which this bill was 20 passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will call the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 7863 1 reconsideration. ) 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 3 President, I now offer the following amendments. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Amendments are received and adopted. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 on page 43, I offer the following amendments to 9 Calendar 1512, Senate Print 7648, and ask that 10 it retain its place on the Third Reading 11 Calendar. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 13 Amendments are received and adopted. The bill 14 will retain its place on the Third Reading 15 Calendar. 16 Senator Skelos, we have a couple 17 of substitutions at the desk. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the 19 substitutions at the desk. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 42, 23 Senator Maltese moves to discharge from the 7864 1 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6212-D, 2 and substitute it for the identical Third 3 Reading Calendar 1509. 4 On page 44, Senator Hoblock moves 5 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 6 Assembly Bill Number 10968 and substitute it for 7 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1523. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Substitutions are ordered. 10 Senator Skelos, we have a couple 11 resolutions at the desk if you would like to 12 take those. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 14 believe there are four resolutions at the desk. 15 I ask their titles be read and move their 16 adoption. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the titles of all four resolutions. 19 We'll vote on them at one time. 20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno, 21 Legislative Resolution commemorating the Olympic 22 Torch's passage through the town of Brunswick, 23 New York, Friday, June 14, 1996. 7865 1 By Senator Bruno, Legislative 2 Resolution commemorating the Olympic Torch's 3 passage through the Hoosick community on Friday, 4 June 14, 1996. 5 By Senator DeFrancisco, 6 Legislative Resolution honoring the Media Unit, 7 327 Montgomery Street, Syracuse, New York on the 8 occasion of its 20th Anniversary in providing 9 young people in the Central New York area with 10 life skills. 11 And by Senator Connor, 12 Legislative Resolution commemorating the Lower 13 East Side Festival, Gateway to the American 14 Dream, paying tribute to 100 years of the 15 immigration of new Americans, to be celebrated 16 at a gala street festival on Sunday, June 16, 17 1996. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 19 is on the four resolutions before the house. 20 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 7866 1 The resolutions are adopted. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 4 other housekeeping at the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 none right now. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Then, Mr. 8 President, if we could have a reading of the 9 non-controversial calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the non-controversial calendar. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 13 Calendar Number 142, by Senator Lack, Senate 14 Print 1296, concurrent resolution of the Senate 15 and Assembly, proposing amendments to Article 6 16 of the Constitution. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 18 is on the resolution. Secretary will call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 7867 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 -- the resolution is adopted. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 354, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1970, 5 an act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, 6 in relation to licensed boxers and wrestlers. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 358, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 12 Assembly Print 7679, an act to amend the Labor 13 Law, in relation to registration. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7868 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 390, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print Number 3 2138-B, an act to amend the Social Services Law 4 and the Education Law, in relation to enacting 5 the New York State Child Abuse Prevention Act. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 9 act shall take effect November 1. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 730, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6772 18 A, an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 19 relation to the sale of raffle tickets. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7869 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 776, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1434-B, an 9 act authorizing the Commissioner of General 10 Services. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 12 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 13 -- lay the bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 858, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 16 Assembly Print 10538-B, an act to amend the 17 Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to orders of 18 protection. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7870 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 960, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6688-A, an 8 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 9 making certain technical corrections. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 969, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5985-B, an 22 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 23 relation to collective negotiations. 7871 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 974, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7259-B, an 13 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 14 Law, in relation to retirement of police 15 officers. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect - 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay that 21 aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 7872 1 THE SECRETARY: 1016, by Senator 2 Nozzolio, Senate Print 7439-A, an act to amend 3 the General City Law, in relation to the term of 4 office of city supervisors. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. Oh, excuse me. 7 There is a home rule message at the desk. 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1067, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7484-B, an 19 act to amend the Judiciary Law. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: 1088, by Senator 7873 1 Johnson, Senate Bill 575, an act to amend the 2 Penal Law, in relation to the administrative 3 provisions. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1109, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2713-A, 9 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 10 relation to eliminating the fee. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 14 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 15 January. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1154, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6497-A, 7874 1 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 2 relation to reports. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 31. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1165, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 7412, 15 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 16 relation to reciprocal promotions. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Lay it 18 aside for amendment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside for amendments. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1198, by member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly 23 Print 4513-A, an act to amend the Election Law, 7875 1 in relation to contents of petition witness 2 statements. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 6 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 7 December. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1243, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 1915-C, an 16 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 17 establishing. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1260, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 7010-A, an 23 act to amend the General City Law, in relation 7876 1 to the residence of members. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1303, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7028-A, 14 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 15 Law, in relation to inactive wells. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 32. 7877 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1332, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6576-B, an 5 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law 6 and the Tax Law. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1403, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2458-A, an 12 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation 13 to orders of protection. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7878 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1405, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2629-B, an 3 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 4 Law, in relation to providing. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1406, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2807-A, an 17 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 18 the reporting of school safety inspections. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 22 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 23 January. 7879 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1408, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4754-A, 9 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 10 city of New York. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside at the request of Senator Leichter. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1410, by Senator Paterson, Senate Print 5486, an 7880 1 act to authorize Richard J. Mason, the Executive 2 Director of the Renaissance Health Care Network. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1423, by member of the Assembly Katz, Assembly 15 Print 9809, an act to amend the Executive Law, 16 in relation to penalties. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 21 November. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7881 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1454, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7143, 7 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 8 proposing an amendment to Section 1 of Article 6 9 of the Constitution. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 11 is on the resolution. Secretary will call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 resolution is adopted. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1485, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6249-A, an 19 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 20 to the tariff filings. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside at the request of Senator Leichter. 7882 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1488, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6729-A, 3 an act to amend Chapter 266 of the Laws of 4 1981. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1492, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7556, an 17 act - 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1496, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7580, an 23 act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act 7883 1 of 1974. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1501, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 302-A, an 7 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 8 increasing the penalties. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1502, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 2701, an 22 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 23 increasing the penalties. 7884 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 4 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 5 November. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1504, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 7594-A, an 14 act authorizing the apportionment of transporta 15 tion aid. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 17 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7885 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1505, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 7612, an 6 act to legalize, ratify and confirm the acts and 7 proceedings of the board of education. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1506, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Print 7613, an act to amend Chapter 268 of the 21 Laws of 1989. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7886 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1507, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7625, an act 11 to amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act, in 12 relation to the contesting of a will. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7887 1 1508, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Assembly 2 Print -- Senate Print rather. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1509, by member of the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly 7 Print 6212-D, substituted earlier today, an act 8 to amend the Election Law and Chapter 659 of the 9 Laws of 1994. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1510, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7641, an 14 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 15 Law, in relation to the date. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 7888 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1511, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 7643, an 5 act in relation to authorizing Tier I status. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 7 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 8 read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1513, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7655-A, an 19 act to amend the Transportation Law, in relation 20 to establishing an engineering and technician 21 career development. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7889 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1514, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 7656, an act 11 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 12 to the determination. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7890 1 1515, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 7657, an 2 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law, 3 in relation to the general powers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1516, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7659, an 16 act to amend the Executive Law. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1517, by Senator Maziarz. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill 23 aside for the day. 7891 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside for the day. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1518, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 5 Print 7689, an act to amend Chapter 884 of the 6 Laws of 1990. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1519, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7707, an 19 act to incorporate the Wheatfield Volunteer 20 Firefighters' Benevolent Association. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 7892 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Bill 1514 at 10 the desk? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do we 12 have 1514? You want to just hold it at the 13 desk. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Could 15 you just -- 1514, just hold it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1514 - 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I just 18 want to hold it. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1519 was 20 passed. 21 The Secretary will continue to 22 call the non-controversial calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7893 1 1521, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 7710, an act 2 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to the 3 use of life preservers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1522, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Print 7712, an act to amend the Alcoholic 17 Beverage Control Law, in relation to licensing. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 7894 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1523, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Print 10968 - 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside at the request of Senator Leichter. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1524, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7731, an 13 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 14 Law, in relation to service. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay it 17 aside at the request of Senator Leichter. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1525, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Print 7734, an act to amend Section 20 of the 21 Laws of -- of Chapter 231 of the Laws of 1993. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 7895 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1526, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7764, an 11 act to amend the Public Health Law. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside at the request of Senator Dollinger. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 21 President, I understand that 730 has passed the 22 house. May I have unanimous consent to be 23 recorded in the negative on 730? 7896 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 2 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 3 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on 4 Calendar Number 730. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 could we take up the controversial calendar, 8 regular order. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will call the controversial calendar, regular 11 order commencing with Calendar Number 354. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 7, 13 Calendar Number 354, by Senator DeFrancisco, 14 Senate Print 1970, an act to amend the Workers' 15 Compensation Law, in relation to licensed boxers 16 and wrestlers. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 7897 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number 3 354 has been asked for by Senator Stachowski. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Presently 5 the workers' -- the individuals who promote 6 fights licensed -- for licensed boxers in the 7 state of New York have to pay Workers' 8 Compensation premiums. However, the case law 9 indicates that workers' -- boxers that are 10 injured in the ring and wrestlers as well can 11 not collect Workers' Compensation benefits. 12 There was a recent case in 1993, so since it 13 seems to be unfair - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 DeFrancisco, excuse me just a minute. We have a 16 lot of motion going on in the chamber and a lot 17 of noise. Can we have the members please take 18 their seats. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- it 20 seemed unfair to require promoters to pay for 21 something that the boxers would never take 22 advantage of; so that was the reason for it and 23 that's the reason for the bill. 7898 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 DeFrancisco, do you yield for a question from 5 Senator Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If Senator 7 DeFrancisco would yield. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 yields. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, do 12 you know when we started covering boxers and 13 wrestlers with Workers' Comp' or has it always 14 been, do you know? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 16 know when we started, but I think it has always 17 been. There's never been an exemption. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And we know 19 for sure that they almost always lose? Have 20 they ever won a case that we know of? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 22 know if they have, but the most recent case, I 23 don't know the name of it, in 1993 -- it's in 7899 1 the memo -- where there were very, very serious 2 injuries. I think the individual ultimately 3 died as well, and he could not collect, so that 4 seems to be a pretty extreme case. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If the 6 Senator would continue to yield. Do you know, 7 is the Athletic Commission in favor of this 8 bill? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I've had no 10 correspondence from them, but the bill does say 11 that this is true, this bill would apply 12 provided that the boxer has the insurance 13 required -- health insurance and liability 14 insurance -- required by the Boxing Commission 15 so I don't believe they have any objection. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I -- thank 17 you. 18 I was asking a few questions 19 mainly because we have a memo and I'm pointing 20 out to the people in this room that the AFL-CIO 21 opposes this bill, and I do understand the point 22 that this would probably encourage more boxing 23 and wrestling events if we dropped this coverage 7900 1 which the boxers and wrestlers don't seem to be 2 able to collect on anyway. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 6 DeFrancisco yield to a question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 DeFrancisco, will you yield to a question from 9 Senator Dollinger? 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 yields. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, does 14 the opinion that you refer to -- and this is all 15 new to me -- does it refer to the injuries 16 sustained in the ring? What happens if someone 17 were walking toward the ring and slipped and 18 fell and were hurt, or hurt their back or were 19 in training on the facility, are they still 20 covered? Would that be covered by Workers' 21 Compensation? I can understand how, if your job 22 is to knock the other guy out, that wouldn't be 23 considered an injury covered by Workers' Comp', 7901 1 but what about the injuries that happen in the 2 normal course of business? 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Have you 4 ever taught law school, Senator Dollinger? You 5 seem to find all the exceptions in the world. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'm just 7 trying to find out if we leave them unprotected 8 for those other kinds of injuries that occur to 9 boxers. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 11 know of anybody slipping where they fell going 12 into the ring where they made a claim for 13 compensation. I imagine that's possible, but on 14 the other hand the serious injuries where there 15 should be recovery have not been taken care of 16 because of the court cases, so I'm not concerned 17 about that situation because one of the 18 requirements of the New York State Athletic 19 Commission is to maintain health insurance, 20 maintain liability insurance so that those - 21 there is a back-up for that type of instance. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Thank 23 you. 7902 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 3 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Secretary will continue to call 14 the controversial calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 776, by Senator Saland. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Skelos, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay that aside 20 temporarily. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That was 22 Calendar Number 776. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 7903 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 2 Number 776 will be laid aside temporarily. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 4 also inadvertently laid aside 1517 by Senator 5 Maziarz. With the consent of the Minority, if 6 we could call that bill right now. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the title to Calendar Number 1517. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1517, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7667, an 11 act to authorize the payment of transportation 12 aid. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a local fiscal impact note at the desk, and the 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 7904 1 Senator Skelos, want to return to 2 regular order? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: We could go back 4 to regular order, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will continue to call the controversial calendar 7 in regular order. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 974, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7259-B, an 10 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 11 Law, in relation to retirement. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1067, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7484-B, an 7905 1 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 2 disciplinary hearings. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay aside 4 temporarily. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside temporarily. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1088, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 575, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 10 administrative provisions. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 1088 14 has been asked for by Senator Dollinger. 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 16 Section 400 of the Penal Law provides that two 17 types of pistol licenses which -- may be issued 18 by the authorities, either premises or carry. 19 There's no provision for any other variety of 20 license such as target or hunting, et cetera, 21 and nevertheless in 55 jurisdictions in this 22 state, local authorities are putting on 23 restrictions which they have no authority to do 7906 1 under the law. 2 What this bill says very simply 3 is that the local licensing authorities must 4 issue licenses in accordance with the law, 5 either premise or carry, and not put any 6 extraneous conditions in place. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there an 12 amendment at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're 14 checking, Senator Dollinger. 15 Senator Dollinger, the amendment 16 is at the desk. Apparently it was filed a 17 couple of days ago. What's your pleasure? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, I'd ask that the reading of it be 20 waived and I'd be allowed to be heard on the 21 amendment. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 reading is waived and, Senator Dollinger, you 7907 1 now are afforded the opportunity to explain your 2 amendment. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 This amendment allows -- repre 6 sents an opportunity for the people of this 7 state to be freed from the continuing violence 8 that occurs too often in our cities and 9 throughout the rest of our state. 10 What this amendment will do is 11 follow the example of the federal government and 12 put New York State and its people in a position 13 where dangerous semi-automatic assault weapons 14 will be restricted and the access to those 15 weapons, these terrible, dangerous weapons will 16 once again be restricted so that we will 17 decrease the violence that occurs too often in 18 our state. 19 This bill -- this amendment will 20 enact an assault weapon ban that includes the 21 provisions of the current federal ban. It 22 prohibits the possession of 20 specific weapons, 23 copy-cat weapons, military style weapons, and 7908 1 ammunition clips with a capacity of more than 10 2 rounds. It does provide for the licensing of 3 some of these weapons for the sole purposes of 4 use in shooting matches. 5 There has been a complaint by 6 people that, if we restricted assault weapons, 7 we would restrict the rights of those who want 8 to engage in target shooting with these 9 weapons. This bill will allow them to engage in 10 shooting for competitive purposes with these 11 weapons. So there's an exception. We've heard 12 the complaints of those who have been afraid of 13 a total ban on these weapons. In this amendment 14 we have accommodated them by allowing their use 15 in matches. 16 In addition, this law -- this 17 amendment will prohibit the possession of an 18 assault weapon or an assault weapon ammunition 19 feeding device, the dangerous clips, the 20 20 rounds that you see people in the movies stick 21 into the guns and then pull the trigger in rapid 22 fire succession and kill people. It will make 23 the possession of these weapons a Class D felony 7909 1 unless the holder of the weapon is licensed at 2 the time he's found in possession of it. 3 It requires imposition of an 4 additional prison sentence upon conviction for 5 use of a semi-automatic assault weapon during 6 the commission of a crime. That sentence will 7 be served consecutively. It also increases 8 penalties for the possession of a machine gun. 9 As we all know, fully automatic weapons in this 10 state are illegal. They've been illegal for 11 more than 70 years. This Legislature banned 12 those weapons in the early part of this century, 13 when machine guns became the weapon of choice 14 for those involved in the anti-Prohibition 15 movement and the rise of organized crime in the 16 1920s. When those weapons, fully automatic 17 weapons, became too dangerous, this Legislature 18 banned them. 19 What this amendment does is, it 20 will increase the penalties for those who 21 possess fully automatic weapons, and lastly it 22 will enact a Gun Owner's Protection Act which 23 requires the Division of State Police to assist 7910 1 lawful gun owners in complying with the law. If 2 you already have a semi-automatic assault weapon 3 which may be legal in this state, that we are 4 now going to make illegal, that we're going to 5 prevent the possession of, we will allow the 6 State Police to assist those lawful gun owners 7 in the transition of complying with this law. 8 Why do we need this law? Because 9 the incidence of crimes involving assault 10 weapons is increasing. Rochester Democrat and 11 Chronicle, back in my home town, April 14, 1996, 12 "Assault Gun Use is Rising in Rochester." It 13 refers to the tragic incident on the corner of 14 Furman, Crescent and Goodman Streets two years 15 ago, in which two young boys were sitting in a 16 car, another car pulled up and the car was 17 sprayed with bullets from a semi-automatic 18 assault weapon and both of these youths were 19 killed. 20 Three people have already died in 21 Rochester because of the use of these weapons. 22 They are the weapons of choice of drug dealers. 23 They're the weapons of choice of organized crime 7911 1 and just like this Legislature did 70 years ago 2 with machine guns, when it said that certain 3 weapons are too dangerous to be put on our 4 streets, too dangerous to be put in the hands of 5 17-year-olds who want to use them when they're 6 engaging in criminal activity, under those 7 circumstances this Legislature had the courage 8 to ban machine guns. Today we should have the 9 same courage to ban these deadly weapons in our 10 state. 11 The Congress has already laid a 12 path, has already blazed part of the path of 13 removing these weapons from the streets of our 14 nation and this state, because as you all know, 15 most of the prosecutions for gun offenses are 16 going to be done by local prosecutors who are 17 working in the name of the people of the state 18 of New York. Let's give local prosecutors the 19 ability to reduce the violence in our streets, 20 to keep our streets safer. Let's put this 21 assault weapon ban in effect. 22 A vote on this amendment is your 23 one chance this year to say to the people of 7912 1 this state, we're going to make our streets 2 safer. We're going to take away fire power from 3 people who don't deserve it and that we'll do 4 exactly what we did 70 years ago to machine 5 guns. We'll tell the people of the state 6 they're too dangerous to be in the private 7 possession of people. They're too dangerous and 8 they pose too large a threat to our communities, 9 to our neighborhoods. 10 Vote aye in the favor of this 11 amendment, and we'll send a clear message to 12 everyone that it's time that New York stepped 13 back from the precipice of violence and made our 14 neighborhoods and our communities safer. 15 Mr. President, I'll move the 16 amendment. If anyone else - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 18 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 19 amendment? Hearing none, the question is on the 20 amendment. 21 Senator Paterson, why do you 22 rise? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 7913 1 we'd like a slow roll call on the amendment. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 3 amendment. Secretary will ring the bells. Call 4 the roll slowly. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 8 SENATOR ALESI: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Bruno. 12 (Negative indication. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 14 (Affirmative indication. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator DeFrancisco. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator DiCarlo. 20 SENATOR DiCARLO: Negative. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 7914 1 President, just to explain my vote briefly. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger, to explain his vote on the amendment. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Three years 5 ago this body was called into session by 6 Governor Cuomo to pass an assault weapons ban. 7 Now three -- more than three and a half years 8 later we've still failed to do the job. This is 9 our chance this year. We ought to do it for the 10 reasons I said earlier. 11 I'm voting aye, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative. 14 Continue to call the slow roll 15 call on the amendment. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 17 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 22 explain my vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7915 1 Gold, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, if 3 there's anybody here who does not have a 4 driver's license and would like to - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold, pardon the interruption. Could we have 7 some quiet in the chamber. Would the members 8 please take their seats, staffs please find 9 their seats. 10 Thank you for the interruption, 11 Senator Gold. I apologize. 12 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, Mr. 13 President. I appreciate the courtesy you've 14 shown me, particularly after your crack 15 yesterday about my four putts on the first 16 green. 17 But if there's anybody that needs 18 a driver's license, if you'd like to drive a car 19 you know, you can't drive it without a driver's 20 license. You can go down to Motor Vehicle, you 21 can sign up, you can take a test, you can take 22 lessons, you can learn to drive and maybe in 23 about four or five months you'll have your 7916 1 driver's license. 2 On the other hand, if you can't 3 drive a car and you want something to do this 4 afternoon, we can leave here now and if any of 5 you want to take me up on this, I will do it 6 with you, we can leave here now. We can drive 7 eight, ten minutes, go into a gun store, be out 8 of there in ten minutes and you can own an AK-47 9 or any other assault weapon and all you need to 10 do is to sign a piece of paper, an honest - 11 which you will be honest about, I know, telling 12 the world that you have never been convicted of 13 a crime, you've not escaped from a mental 14 institution, et cetera, and they will take your 15 word for it, by the way, as long as you got a 16 few dollars to buy the weapon. 17 This is just a ridiculous, 18 ridiculous situation. I made such a purchase a 19 couple years ago and some reporter who's in the 20 pockets of the gun lobby wrote a story about, 21 well, I said it took ten minutes and it really 22 took a half hour. It's nonsense. If you want 23 to buy an assault weapon, anybody in this 7917 1 chamber right now and you're over 18 years of 2 age, I can take you to the store, you walk in 3 and you can walk out 10 or 12 minutes later with 4 an assault weapon. 5 Senator Dollinger, I want to 6 congratulate you for your persistence in this 7 area, Senator Oppenheimer for your persistence. 8 We've got to do something. We are living in a 9 morass of laws that make no sense and if you 10 want proof of it, this is one major area. 11 I vote yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative. 14 Continue to call the slow roll 15 call on the amendment. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Gonzalez. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Goodman. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Hannon. 22 SENATOR HANNON: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 7918 1 SENATOR HOBLOCK: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Hoffmann. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Holland. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 10 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 12 SENATOR KUHL: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 14 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 16 SENATOR LACK: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 20 SENATOR LAVALLE: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 22 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7919 1 Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 8 SENATOR MALTESE: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Marcellino. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 13 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Markowitz. 16 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Montgomery. 23 (There was no response. ) 7920 1 Senator Nanula. 2 (Affirmative indication. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Yes. 4 Senator Nozzolio. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Onorato. 7 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Oppenheimer. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explain my 11 vote, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: We simply 15 have to get a handle on guns. I was reading in 16 the newspaper just a few days ago that the 17 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 18 Chicago just published a few days ago in the 19 Journal of American Medical Association the 20 numbers on our youngsters, our school children, 21 that are being killed in -- in the violent 22 deaths. There are 105 school-related violent 23 deaths. Most of them were through guns at 101 7921 1 different schools. 2 I mean I'm -- I am talking about 3 the guns that are so available on the streets, 4 but let me -- let me focus just on the assault 5 weapons right now. The -- this bill does not 6 prohibit ownership of -- of sporting guns or of 7 guns that are held by collectors of guns or - 8 or people who want to participate in marksman 9 ship or in hunting. We're not talking about 10 that, and that's why I have such difficulty 11 understanding why we don't want to restrain 12 these military style guns whose only purpose, as 13 I see it when they were created, is weapons of 14 war. We try and mow down in wars, I guess, as 15 many people as possible as quickly as possible, 16 but it confounds me why this would be in a 17 civilian society. They have enormous killing 18 power and what I am finding in part of my 19 district is that innocent bystanders are killed, 20 not the person for whom -- not the victim for 21 whom it was intended but also innocent 22 bystanders. 23 Also we are putting at a 7922 1 disadvantage our police because in some 2 departments they have not upgraded to the 9 3 millimeter weapons as they have in New York City 4 and a few other places, and so they're really 5 disadvantaged because they have just inferior 6 weapons to -- to combat, and this is the -- the 7 choice of weapon for our drug dealers. If we 8 want to get a handle on drug dealers, if we want 9 to get a handle on the violence in our society, 10 if we want to get a handle on all these deaths 11 of young children up to the age of grade -- of 12 12th grade, which is what I was reading in the 13 beginning, we have to do something about this, 14 and I think this is the most important first 15 step. 16 I vote yes for the amendment. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the 19 affirmative. 20 Continue to call the slow roll 21 call on the amendment. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7923 1 Padavan, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 3 two things. 4 First, most of what Senator 5 Oppenheimer was just talking about in terms of 6 the ownership and violent use of guns has 7 nothing to do with this bill. 99 percent of 8 what you're talking about, 99 and 9/10ths 9 percent of what you're talking about is other 10 weapons other than covered by this bill, and 11 it's a question of enforcement and not anything 12 we have or have not done. 13 However, regard to the amendment 14 itself, there's been no mention here of the fact 15 that in this nation today we have an assault 16 weapon ban. It was adopted by the Congress, and 17 this amendment, if it became law, in certain 18 provisions is in violation of the federal law. 19 It contradicts it. So this doesn't make sense 20 in any way you look at it. 21 Now, I happen to be personally in 22 favor of a ban on assault weapons, but I'm not 23 about to participate in a sham here in terms of 7924 1 an amendment that not only does not do anything 2 beyond that which we already have by federal 3 statute but undermines that. 4 I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Padavan will be recorded in the negative. 7 Continue to call the slow roll 8 call on the amendment. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 after consulting with Senator Padavan, I vote 13 aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 17 SENATOR RATH: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 19 SENATOR SALAND: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Santiago. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Seabrook. 7925 1 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears. 3 SENATOR SEARS: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 9 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 11 SENATOR SPANO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Stachowski. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 Senator Stafford. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky 18 excused. 19 Senator Trunzo. 20 SENATOR TRUNZO: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Tully, to explain his vote. 7926 1 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 At the time this amendment was 4 proposed, I was in the Judiciary Committee 5 engaged in other activities and had I been here, 6 Mr. President, when this amendment was proposed, 7 I would have asked the Chair to rule on its 8 germaneness. In my opinion, it has no bearing 9 whatsoever on the bill before us, and it's 10 merely a procedural sham to deal with a 11 substantive matter, assault weapons. 12 I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Tully will be recorded in the negative. 15 Continue to call the slow roll 16 call on the amendment. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 23 Senator Wright. 7927 1 (There was no response. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will call the absentees. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 5 SENATOR BABBUSH: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Gonzalez. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Goodman. 15 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Hoffmann. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Levy. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Montgomery. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Nozzolio. 7928 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Nay. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Santiago. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Seward. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Stachowski. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 12 the results. 13 Senator Espada, did you want to 14 vote? 15 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes, I would 16 like to vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: How do 18 you vote on the amendment? 19 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Espada will be reported in the affirmative. 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 18, nays 7929 1 34. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 amendment is lost. 4 The question is on the bill. Is 5 there any other Senator wishing to speak on 6 Calendar Number 1088? 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 9 President. If Senator Johnson would yield to a 10 question. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Johnson, do you yield to a question from Senator 13 Paterson? 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 15 rather than holding the license supervisors, 16 those who are empowered to grant licenses to a 17 statutory standard, did you consider in this 18 legislation, or perhaps I would suggest that 19 what might have helped the legislation be more 20 effective would have been for we, as a 21 legislature, to set out what the guidelines 22 would be for the granting of licenses so the 23 issue would be clear, such as someone is working 7930 1 in an area involving valuable jewelry, so we 2 would allow them to carry a license for that 3 particular area rather than having a strict 4 standard on an issue that is so sensitive 5 because firearms are so dangerous. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Is that a 7 question, Senator? 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Yeah. The 9 question is, rather than restricting the 10 authority of licensors to not go beyond the 11 statute, why would we not, if you wanted to do 12 that, why would we not lay out as a legislature 13 what we think the guidelines should actually be 14 rather than just adhering strictly to the 15 statute? 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, Senator, 17 I think that's a suggestion of some merit. 18 Certainly you appear to agree with me that the 19 Legislature should make the laws and not the 20 local licensing authorities make regulations 21 which usurp or vitiate our laws. 22 So, yes, I think that's a good 23 suggestion to consider that in the future. 7931 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. I think I'll stop while I'm ahead. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 11 the results when tabulated. 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 1088 are 14 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Espada, Gold, 15 Goodman, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Nanula, 16 Onorato, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith and Waldon; 17 also Senator Mendez. Ayes 37, nays 16. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 if we could return to reports of standing 23 committees at this time. I believe there's a 7932 1 report of the Judiciary Committee at the desk. 2 I ask that it be read and that you recognize 3 Senator Lack. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a report at the desk, Senator Skelos. Thank 6 you. We will return to reports of standing 7 committees. I'll ask the Secretary to read the 8 report of the Judiciary Committee. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack from 10 the Committee on Judiciary offers the following 11 nomination: Judge of the New York State Court of 12 Claims, Joan Carey of New York City. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 14 recognizes Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 Once again, it's my privilege to 18 rise on the floor to move the Governor's 19 nominees, in this case mainly reappointments to 20 the New York State Court of Claims, and even 21 though it's in alphabetical order, it's a 22 privilege to stand first to move the nomination 23 of Joan Carey as a judge of the Court of 7933 1 Claims. 2 She's currently the deputy chief 3 administrative judge for all courts within the 4 city of New York. I would love to spend more 5 than a few minutes describing, I think, what has 6 been universal admiration throughout the court 7 system for Judge Carey, but if I did I would be 8 stealing Senator Goodman's thunder, so I should 9 tell you, Mr. President, that it is with great 10 pleasure that I will yield to my colleague, 11 Senator Goodman. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 13 recognizes Senator Goodman. 14 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. President. 16 Senator Lack, as chairman of the 17 Judiciary Committee, I'm very appreciative of 18 the courtesy of allowing me the privilege, my 19 colleagues, if you will, to nominate someone who 20 could be described as the crown jewel in the 21 tiara of the judicial system in New York City. 22 This is an absolutely 23 extraordinary justice whose career spans 7934 1 innumerable immense responsibilities and I'd 2 just like to share with you a few of these to 3 give you some feeling for the remarkable 4 judicial career which this judge has enjoyed to 5 this date. 6 Starting as a law secretary in 7 1969 and serving in that capacity, she was in 8 the borough of Queens and was law secretary to 9 the Honorable Ann B. Duffy. She moved on to 10 become an assistant district attorney in Queens 11 County from February 1968 to May 1969. She then 12 became the Special Assistant Attorney General 13 for the Office of Special Prosecutor from 14 December of 1976 to May of 1978. Moving on, she 15 became a judge of the Criminal Court of the city 16 of New York in May 1978 and served in that 17 capacity until the following year, and then 18 became the supervising judge of the Criminal 19 Court of the city of New York from June 1979 to 20 December 1982. 21 This becomes an important fork in 22 the road in her career because it was at this 23 point that she not only was charged with 7935 1 judicial responsibilities but also with 2 administrative responsibilities of a very high 3 order indeed. 4 She moved on to become acting 5 Supreme Court justice for the Supreme Court in 6 the criminal term in the First Judicial District 7 in January 1983, a post in which she served 8 until December of 1992. I might note that at 9 that point she was assigned to one of six 10 so-called "blockbuster" parts where 11 responsibilities were especially heavy in terms 12 of moving a weighty calendar with more than 600 13 felony matters before her. 14 In January of 1993 she became the 15 administrative judge of the Supreme Court 16 criminal term in the First Judicial District. 17 The administrative judge, of course, has vast 18 responsibilities overseeing the operation of the 19 largest branch of the state Supreme Court with a 20 then average of 17,000 filings annually. 21 Moving right along, in January 22 '95 to March '96 she became the administrative 23 judge of the Criminal Court of the City and the 7936 1 administrative judge in that court has 2 administrative responsibility for the operation 3 of the court in each of the five boroughs of New 4 York City. 5 Then to bring this up to the 6 present, in her present preeminent position she 7 is now from January '96 to the present the 8 deputy chief administrative judge in the city 9 courts. 10 Mr. President, the deputy chief 11 administrative judge for New York courts is 12 charged with the responsibility of overseeing 13 the operation of all state courts located within 14 the five boroughs. The courts with a combined 15 judiciary of nearly 600 judges, exercise both 16 civil and criminal jurisdiction. The deputy 17 chief administrative judge also determines 18 disciplinary matters and personnel requests for 19 more than 6,000 non-judicial employees and 20 monitors the fiscal operation and the budget 21 preparation of the combined courts. 22 Mr. President, I think it's 23 generally known that the court system has under 7937 1 gone significant improvement in recent years and 2 if that is indeed true, which I believe it to 3 be, no small measure of the credit for that 4 monumental accomplishment goes to the nominee 5 whose name is before us today, the Honorable 6 Joan B. Carey, and it's with great pride that I 7 second her nomination for a new term as a judge 8 of the Court of Claims of the state of New York 9 for another ten-year term. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 12 nomination? 13 Senator Abate, on the 14 nomination. 15 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I stand in 16 enthusiastic support of Judge Carey. I too have 17 had the honor to appear in front of her. She 18 has a wonderful reputation as a jurist as well 19 as an administrator. There are very few judges 20 that earn the reputation by defense attorneys 21 and prosecutors alike, and to hear from both 22 sectors, this is a fair and impartial judge. 23 That's an enormous, I believe, accomplishment 7938 1 and it's to her credit. 2 But beyond that, she has played a 3 role as a very strong administrator, and she's 4 known to be a problem solver. She's able to 5 bring people together. She's brought about 6 enormous improvements in the court system. I've 7 known Judge Carey for a number of years. This 8 is a wonderful reappointment, and I ask my 9 colleagues to join with me in enthusiastic 10 support of her reappointment. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 12 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 13 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on 14 the nomination of Joan Carey for reappointment 15 to the New York State Court of Claims. All 16 those in favor signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The nominee is unanimously 21 confirmed. 22 Judge Carey is joined with us 23 here today and with her husband. Welcome. 7939 1 (Applause) 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 4 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 5 following nomination: Harold J. Rothwax, of New 6 York City, judge of the New York State Court of 7 Claims. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 9 recognizes Senator Lack. 10 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 Once again. It's my honor to 13 rise to move the nomination of one of the more 14 distinguished jurists in this state, Harold 15 Rothwax, for another term on the New York State 16 Court of Claims. 17 As with all the judges we're 18 considering today, particularly those who have 19 been reappointed to the Court of Claims, they've 20 all appeared before the Judiciary Committee. 21 Their credentials have been examined by the 22 staff of the Judiciary Committee, and they've 23 all been unanimously moved to the floor, and 7940 1 that certainly includes Judge Rothwax, and once 2 again it's my honor to yield to Senator Goodman. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Goodman. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 6 before I proceed, may I just correct one matter 7 that I referred to a moment ago. The term of a 8 judge of the court we're considering is nine 9 years and not ten years. As far as I'm 10 concerned, in the case of those before us, they 11 should be given lifetime terms because of the 12 high merit of their particular circumstances. 13 Be that as it may, nine years is 14 the correct number. Next I'm very privileged 15 indeed to speak to the extraordinary merits of 16 Judge Harold J. Rothwax. 17 Judge Rothwax is a graduate of 18 the City College of New York and Columbia 19 University Law School, served in the early 1950s 20 as a First Lieutenant in the United States 21 Army. In his legal career, he was a senior 22 trial attorney in the Criminal Defense Division 23 of the Legal Aid Society from 1959 to 1965. He 7941 1 has been a consultant to the Vera Institute of 2 Justice, previously known as the Vera 3 Foundation, an adviser to the President's 4 Committee on Law Enforcement and the 5 Administration of Justice, an associate 6 professor at the Columbia Law School, and co 7 director of the Columbia Legal Assistance 8 Resource. 9 He became a judge of the Criminal 10 Court in 1971 and did serve in that capacity 11 until 1986. In 1972, he became an acting 12 justice of the Supreme Court. He has been a 13 lecturer at the Harvard Law School and just to 14 keep an appropriate balance, he was also a 15 Guggenheim Fellow at the Yale Law School. He 16 was a consultant on felony case processing at 17 the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and in 18 1987 he became a judge of the Court of Claims of 19 the state of New York. 20 Mr. President, I think it's 21 probably well known to this membership but let 22 me reiterate that time and again Judge Rothwax 23 has been singled out and placed in positions of 7942 1 high judicial responsibility, being asked to try 2 some of the most difficult cases in the state of 3 New York. His reputation as a fair judge who 4 has great grasp of the legal implications of the 5 things that he does, has been more than amply 6 set forth on the record, and it is with a great 7 deal of pleasure, Mr. President, that I second 8 his nomination for another nine-year term in the 9 Court of Claims. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 12 nomination? 13 Senator Abate. 14 SENATOR ABATE: I also stand in 15 support of Judge Rothwax. I never thought I 16 would be sitting in this chamber. The first 17 judge I appeared in front of in 1972 for an 18 entire year was Judge Rothwax. It was probably 19 the longest year of my life, but in that year, I 20 probably learned more about criminal law and 21 criminal procedure and how to be a litigator. 22 He is, in fact, one of the most 23 demanding judges on the bench, but I believe 7943 1 part of that characteristic is his real and 2 long-standing commitment to improving the 3 delivery of justice in the criminal justice 4 system. He is known, and it's not debatable, he 5 has enormous intellect and knowledge of the 6 law. He is a student of the law, and I think 7 this is a fine reappointment and maybe some day, 8 Judge Rothwax, I'll appear in front of you 9 again. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 11 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? The 12 question is on the nomination of Harold J. 13 Rothwax to the position of New York State Court 14 of Claims judge. All those in favor of the 15 nomination signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 The nominee is unanimously 20 confirmed. Happy to have Judge Harold J. 21 Rothwax with us. Judge, welcome to the 22 chamber. 23 (Applause) 7944 1 Secretary will continue to read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 3 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 4 following nomination: Judge of the New York 5 State Court of Claims, Franklin R. Weissberg, of 6 New York City. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 8 recognizes Senator Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 Once again, I rise to move the 12 nomination of Franklin R. Weissberg, of New York 13 City, for reappointment to the New York State 14 Court of Claims. 15 As with all the appearances by 16 the judges this morning, Judge Weissberg 17 appeared before the Judiciary Committee this 18 morning and was unanimously confirmed to come to 19 the floor, and once again I proudly yield to 20 Senator Goodman. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 22 recognizes Senator Goodman, on the nomination. 23 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President, 7945 1 I must state at the outset of my remarks in this 2 matter that I do not approach this with 3 objectivity because the nominee before us has 4 been a close personal friend of mine for the 5 better part of 40 years. He is an extraordinary 6 individual who has had both a distinguished 7 career in private practice, and is an 8 outstanding judge of the Court of Claims in 9 which he has been noted for, again, the 10 difficulty of some of the most complex cases, 11 including some of the most serious felony cases 12 that come before the court. 13 Judge Franklin Weissberg was a 14 graduate of the Harvard Law School in 1957, 15 having previously gone to Syracuse and graduated 16 from the Bronx High School of Science. His 17 military service included from 1953 to '55 the 18 United States Army in Germany. 19 He was elected as a delegate to 20 the 1967 New York State Constitutional 21 Convention, has had an extensive career in 22 teaching and lecturing at the faculty of the 23 Practicing Law Institute and its programs 7946 1 entitled Counseling Clients in the Entertainment 2 Industry, in which he was a major factor. 3 From August '57 to '59 and beyond 4 that through the year 1986, he was a partner in 5 some of New York's most prominent law firms 6 specializing in civil litigation, and in 1992 he 7 was elected president of the Association of the 8 Court of Claims Judges of the state of New 9 York. 10 Judge Weissberg is known to me 11 very intimately because it's an interesting 12 point in his career to note that along the way 13 he was offered a very, very high post in 14 government which he declined because, as he 15 described it to me at the time, he had a 16 passionate interest in the work of a judge, a 17 working judge, in the court system and thus he 18 gave up an opportunity to be given an experience 19 that was disassociated from the mainstream of 20 his career interest, and in doing that, I think 21 he showed his dedication and deep desire to be a 22 judge of a high court and indeed when he became 23 such a judge, he pursued his work with the 7947 1 highest distinction. 2 So, Mr. President, not only 3 because I've known him for 40 years and known 4 him to be a gentleman and a scholar but because 5 he is truly a superior judge, it's a special 6 pleasure and a privilege to nominate -- to 7 second the nomination of Judge Franklin 8 Weissberg. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 10 recognizes Senator Maltese, on the nomination. 11 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 12 there is very little I could add to the words of 13 approbation by my good colleagues, Senator Good 14 man, but I've known Judge Weissberg for many, 15 many years and all the accolades that Senator 16 Goodman and others can heap upon him are very 17 very well deserved. 18 He has taken a leadership role on 19 the Court of Claims, has served as a very, very 20 distinguished judge and despite the fact he 21 graduated from my old nemesis, Bronx High School 22 of Science, nonetheless conclude he is superbly 23 qualified for the appointment, and I 7948 1 congratulate the Governor for this stellar 2 appointment. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 4 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 5 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 6 of Franklin R. Weissberg to become a member of 7 the New York State Court of Claims. All those 8 in favor of the nomination, signify by saying 9 aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The nominee is unanimously 14 confirmed. Very pleased to have Judge Weissberg 15 with us. 16 (Applause) 17 Judge Weissberg is also joined by 18 his wife, who also happens to be a judge in our 19 court system, Judge Marylin G. Diamond. Judge 20 Diamond, welcome. 21 Secretary will continue to read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 23 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 7949 1 following nomination: Judge of the New York 2 State Court of Claims, James G. Starkey, of 3 Brooklyn. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Lack, on the nomination. 6 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 It's my privilege to stand up 9 once again to move the nomination of James G. 10 Starkey, of Brooklyn, for reappointment to the 11 New York State Court of Claims. 12 Judge Starkey appeared before us 13 this morning, answered all questions put to him, 14 and was unanimously confirmed by the committee 15 and moved to the floor, and I would yield to 16 Senator DiCarlo. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 18 recognizes Senator DiCarlo, on the nomination. 19 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 It is indeed a privilege to rise 22 and second the nomination of James G. Starkey to 23 the Court of Claims in New York State. I have 7950 1 known the judge for a number of years. He is a 2 friend of the family. 3 He is -- was an assistant United 4 States Attorney from the Southern District of 5 New York from 1957 through 1961. He was in 6 private practice from 1961 to 1973. From 1973 7 to 1982, he was a judge of the Criminal Court of 8 New York City. From 1976 through 1982, he was 9 acting Supreme Court justice, Supreme Court in 10 Kings County. 1982 through 1987 he was an 11 associate professor of law at St. Johns 12 University, and from 1987 to date, justice, 13 Supreme Court, Kings County; judge, New York 14 State Court of Claims. 15 It's a pleasure to rise and 16 second the nomination not only because I know 17 the judge and he is highly qualified, but 18 because the judge comes from my home town, 19 Brooklyn, New York, and we all know that the 20 finest lawyers and the finest judges come from 21 Kings County, otherwise known as Brooklyn, New 22 York. 23 Let me also say that the 7951 1 judiciary, in my opinion, in certain cases gets 2 a bad rap, and we read about the bad judges but 3 we don't hear about the good judges and not just 4 Judge Starkey but the other nominees we have 5 here today, who are fine examples of what is 6 right about the judiciary, and Judge Starkey is 7 certainly one of those, and it is an honor to 8 second his nomination today. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 11 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on 12 the nomination of James G. Starkey to become a 13 member of the New York State Court of Claims. 14 All those in favor of the nomination signify by 15 saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The nominee is unanimously 20 confirmed. We're very pleased to have Judge 21 Starkey and his wife, Suzanne Lawrence, in the 22 chamber with us today. Judge Starkey, welcome. 23 (Applause) 7952 1 Secretary will continue to 2 reads. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 4 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 5 following nomination: Judge of the New York 6 State Court of Claims, Lewis L. Douglass, of 7 Whitestone. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Judge - 9 excuse me, James Lack, on the nomination. 10 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 It's a pleasure to rise to move 13 the nomination of Lewis L. Douglass, of White 14 stone, once again as a reappointment to the New 15 York State Court of Claims. 16 He appeared before the committee 17 this morning, was unanimously moved to the floor 18 and I would yield to Senator Padavan. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 recognizes Senator Padavan, on the nomination. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Certainly an honor for me to have 7953 1 the opportunity of seconding the nomination of 2 Judge Douglass to the New York State Court of 3 Claims as a reappointment. In looking over his 4 background, one cannot help but be impressed not 5 only with his judicial experience, having served 6 in the Criminal Court, the Supreme Court and 7 more recently on the Court of Claims, but to 8 look at the things that preceded his elevation 9 to the judiciary; to appreciate the depth of his 10 background and experience in the New York City 11 Department of Corrections, in the community as 12 past president and member of the Medgar Evers 13 Community Council, on and on the list goes. 14 He was well prepared, having not 15 only served as an investigator for the city of 16 New York, as a hearing examiner for the New York 17 State Rent Commission and also certainly as a 18 member of the Corporation Counsel's office of 19 the city of New York and subsequent to that as 20 an assistant United States Attorney in the 21 Eastern District of New York. 22 Judge Douglass, I gather, did it 23 the hard way. He worked his way through 7954 1 college, started at Manhattan Community College, 2 went on to New York College and then, of course, 3 St. Johns University. Teaches graduate courses 4 at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, again 5 sharing background and the benefit of his broad 6 experience. 7 I think we have a man of great 8 qualities in terms of the judiciary, and it 9 certainly gives me great pleasure to second his 10 nomination. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 12 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 13 nomination? 14 Chair recognizes Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 There was a period of time that I 19 worked for the district attorney's office in 20 Queens County and was familiar with Judge 21 Douglass at that time. He was in the -- he was 22 in the Supreme Court, not that we were involved 23 in that area, but his distinction was one that 7955 1 was known around the area and around the City. 2 His work with Medgar Evers 3 College and Nathan B. Allen Bar Association, his 4 community service demonstrated that he is a 5 full-time public servant, not only behind the 6 bench but behind many endeavors in the community 7 that have enured to the improvement of the 8 quality of life all around the area he lives and 9 I can't think of a more suitable candidate for 10 appointment and just wanted to add my voice to 11 Senator Padavan's. If you're around this 12 chamber, Senator Padavan and I disagree on 13 occasion, but we couldn't be in greater 14 agreement than on this nomination. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 17 nomination? The question is on the nomination 18 of Lewis L. Douglass to become a member of the 19 New York State Court of Claims. All those in 20 favor of the nomination signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 7956 1 The nominee is unanimously 2 confirmed. We're very pleased to have Judge 3 Douglass, and also his wife Doris, in the 4 chamber with us. Please welcome Judge 5 Douglass. 6 (Applause) 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 9 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 10 following nomination: Judge of the New York 11 State Court of Claims, Norman George, of Floral 12 Park. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 Once again, it's my privilege to 18 rise to move the nomination of Norman George, of 19 Floral Park, for reappointment to the New York 20 State Court of Claims. 21 Both the staff and the committee 22 have examined the credentials of Judge George 23 and have found him satisfactory in all 7957 1 respects. He's been unanimously moved to the 2 floor and, once again, I yield to Senator 3 Padavan. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Padavan on the nomination. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 I understand that, when Judge 9 George appeared before the judiciary, he cited 10 his many years of friendship and, as a matter of 11 fact, served as my counsel when I first came to 12 this body and the committee said they would 13 overlook all of that and recommend his 14 appointment in any event, and I appreciate 15 that. 16 I had the pleasure of seconding 17 the nomination of Judge George in 1988 as he 18 began his tenure on that court. What I said on 19 that occasion, I would like to repeat in part 20 today. Judge George has had a distinguished 21 career as an attorney for ten years. He served 22 as a law secretary to a great jurist in Queens 23 County, Henry Latham. 7958 1 In that capacity, obviously, as 2 those of you in the law know, for ten years he 3 learned everything that he could possibly learn 4 and his experience, both in terms of researching 5 questions of significant importance and 6 providing service to that great judge, stood him 7 in good stead as he began to practice law as a 8 private attorney subsequent to that, and then 9 his elevation to the bench. 10 In addition to a very 11 distinguished and laudable career since his 12 graduation from Fordham University Law School, 13 Judge George is an active member of the 14 community, active in civics, active in 15 educational institutions, as a family man 16 certainly unparalleled, beautiful wife Harriet 17 George, also a judge in the Housing Court, 18 dedicated to law, but more dedicated as we would 19 expect to his family and to his community. 20 And so it was my pleasure then to 21 second his nomination and to offer him to the 22 body for its full consideration. I do so once 23 again today. 7959 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 2 recognizes Senator Maltese, on the nomination. 3 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 4 there is very little that can be added to 5 Senator Padavan's laudatory praises, but I would 6 be remiss if I did not also rise to second the 7 nomination of an old friend who, prior to 8 serving as a distinguished jurist, served in so 9 many quasi-judicial and judicial functions. 10 He -- if it could be said, he 11 went through every step, every available step 12 toward being an -- a fine and distinguished 13 jurist. His background in Fordham Law School 14 and certainly the fact that he was not only a 15 Korean War veteran, but the father of six 16 children and the father of -- and the 17 grandfather of seven grandchildren gives him a 18 compassion and concern that is unequaled on the 19 bench. 20 I join in congratulating Judge 21 George and his family and am proud and pleased 22 to second the nomination. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7960 1 Onorato, on the nomination. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 3 I too rise to join my colleagues in seconding 4 the nomination of Judge Norman George, a very 5 distinguished jurist, and it appears that the 6 distinction runs in the family. His wife 7 Harriet is also a jurist, doing an outstanding 8 job, and I want to congratulate the Governor and 9 the committee for their reappointment and wish 10 him nothing but the best for him and his 11 family. Everything that I wish for my family, I 12 wish for him and his. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 14 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 15 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 16 of Norman George to become a member of the New 17 York State Court of claims. All those in favor 18 of the nomination signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The nominee is unanimously 23 confirmed. Judge George is here with us in the 7961 1 chamber, along with his wife, Judge Harriet 2 George. 3 (Applause) 4 Secretary will continue to read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 6 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 7 following nomination: Judge of the New York 8 State Court of Claims, Dominic R. Massaro, of 9 Pelham. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 11 recognizes Senator Lack on the nomination. 12 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I rise to move the nomination of 15 Dominic R. Massaro once again as a reappointment 16 to the New York State Court of Claims. 17 He appeared before the committee 18 this morning, was unanimously confirmed, 19 nomination sent to the floor, and I would yield 20 for purposes of seconding to Senator Velella. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 22 recognizes Senator Velella on the nomination. 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Thank you, Mr. 7962 1 President. 2 It's my honor for the second time 3 during my career in the chamber to rise and 4 support the nomination of Judge Dominic 5 Massaro. 6 Judge Massaro has served on the 7 New York City Commission on Human Rights, the 8 New York State Commission on Human Rights, has 9 been the director of the Peace Corps for the 10 Northeast Region of the United States, and in 11 his record on the court has demonstrated an 12 ability to listen to the problems that come 13 before the court. 14 Judge Massaro has been honored by 15 very, very many groups within the community and 16 has received international honors from both the 17 Colombian government and the Italian government 18 for his writings on the law. 19 Judge Massaro has truly 20 exemplified what we hold out to be the model of 21 a good judge in a very difficult situation that 22 all the judges we are confirming today will face 23 dealing with the criminal laws and the laws of 7963 1 our state as we pass them here and, in fact, I 2 share the common problem that Senator Padavan 3 has and the committee has decided to overlook 4 the fact that Judge Massaro served as my counsel 5 both when I was in the Assembly and during my 6 term here in the Senate. He has been my 7 personal attorney and he has done very, very 8 well by Bronx County in representing us on the 9 court. 10 It's my pleasure to second his 11 nomination. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 13 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 14 Senator Marchi, on the 15 nomination. 16 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 Regrettably, I was unavoidably 19 called off the floor so I couldn't speak to some 20 of the prior nominees, Franklin Weissberg - 21 Judge Weissberg, and Frank Rossetti, both - 22 both cherished colleagues at the Constitutional 23 Convention. We shared six months of service and 7964 1 it was memorable service indeed, and the 2 experience was an enriching one. 3 Judge Massaro, of course, is an 4 old friend and to see him validated again in 5 these proceedings is a source of comfort and 6 assurance to the people that his valuable 7 service will continue in that office. He's - 8 he is a brilliant lecturer, very much in demand 9 both here and abroad, and a highly cultivated 10 learned person. 11 He's a man of many parts, not 12 only in terms of judicial acumen, but also a 13 broad cultural experience which he shares, much 14 to the delight of many, many audiences, both 15 here and abroad. So we are indeed fortunate, 16 Mr. President, in the nominees that we have 17 here. 18 I haven't seen Mr. Weissberg very 19 often, or Mr. Rossetti very often, but they have 20 worn well, and I'm delighted to see them and 21 also to be present at this ceremony. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 7965 1 nomination? 2 Chair recognizes Senator Abate. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, I too stand 4 in support of this nominee. Judge Massaro is an 5 old friend, and a measure of a man is not just 6 what he accomplishes in one's professional life, 7 but also what he gives back to his community, 8 the small or larger community, and particularly 9 the Italian-American community. 10 I agree with everything that's 11 been said today. I just would like to 12 concentrate on his leadership in the Italian 13 American community as someone who understands 14 his roots, is an enormously positive role model 15 for young people in that community because of 16 his intellect, his commitment, his integrity and 17 I think also I can sum up the kind of man he is 18 by some of the awards he has received: The 19 Outstanding Young Man of America, the -- that 20 was given to him last year. The Young Man of 21 America award; the -- you're supposed to laugh 22 -- the Distinguished Community Service Award in 23 Bronx County; the Outstanding Citizen of Bronx 7966 1 County; the awards go on and on. 2 Again, we're fortunate to have 3 another good judge come before us today and we 4 wish him very good luck and, hopefully, that he 5 will have the strength and perseverence, the 6 intellect, the vision to do justice on each day 7 in his career. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 9 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 10 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on 11 the nomination of Dominic R. Massaro to become a 12 member of the New York State Court of Claims. 13 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The nominee is unanimously 18 confirmed. Very pleased to have Judge Dominic 19 R. Massaro with us in the chamber today. Judge, 20 congratulations. 21 (Applause) 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 7967 1 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 2 following nomination: Judge of the New York 3 State Court of Claims, Frank S. Rossetti, of 4 Long Beach. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 6 recognizes Senator Lack, on the nomination. 7 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 It's a privilege once again to 10 rise to move the nomination of Frank S. 11 Rossetti, of Long Beach. 12 When he appeared before us this 13 morning, he mentioned that he has been nominated 14 for this judgeship by five governors, which I 15 assume is a record for those who are sitting in 16 our gallery, but it is a real pleasure. He has 17 appeared before the committee; the staff has 18 examined his credentials. He's been found 19 eminently satisfactory in all requests. He has 20 been adopted unanimously by the committee and 21 his nomination moved to the floor, and I would 22 yield to Senator Skelos. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 7968 1 recognizes Senator Skelos, on the nomination. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very 3 much, Mr. President. 4 I know that Senator Gold is going 5 to want to comment after I speak and delighted 6 to support the nomination of Frank Rossetti, 7 Manhattan College graduate, New York Law 8 School. He's been a partner in law firm; he's 9 been a sole practitioner. He's been of counsel 10 to law firms. So certainly he knows the 11 difficulty there is in conducting a practice as 12 attorneys. 13 He served in various legislative 14 capacities. He was appointed an assistant 15 counsel to the Honorable Stanley Steingut, then 16 Minority Leader of the state Assembly, and he 17 represented the Minority Leader in connection 18 with the Temporary Commission on the State Court 19 System, and then in -- on May 26th, 1972, was 20 appointed by Nelson Rockefeller as a judge of 21 the Court of Claims, reappointed by Governors 22 Wilson, Carey, Cuomo and now Governor Pataki. 23 In Nassau County, he's serving as 7969 1 an acting Supreme Court justice, presides over 2 all matters involving guardians, conservator and 3 committee proceedings brought in Nassau County 4 Supreme Court. He resides in the city of Long 5 Beach, certainly a beautiful area to live, and 6 it's my pleasure to second the nomination of 7 Frank S. Rossetti as judge of the New York State 8 Court of Claims. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 10 recognizes Senator Gold, on the nomination. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 Firstly, I'd like to repeat 14 something that Senator Leichter and Senator 15 Dollinger and I and others have said with regard 16 to the nominees in general, and that is that 17 while politics is politics and we can argue with 18 the Governor on some of his appointments in the 19 areas of commissioners, the Governor has really 20 been outstanding in the way he's handled the 21 judiciary. He has not only given us in his new 22 nominees very, very talented people, even though 23 we all understand they are now Republicans, but 7970 1 he has -- with regard to his reappointments 2 really been very, very non-political and very 3 sensitive to the jobs that people have been 4 doing on the bench, and I'm proud of the 5 Governor in that respect. 6 This particular appointment has 7 very special meaning to me, and months ago my 8 wife and I went to California, and in California 9 we were introduced in places as "Sue Gold's 10 father", and I tell you I had a great pride when 11 I was introduced as Sue Gold's father, after 12 some years of taking her places and having her 13 introduced as my daughter. I feel the same when 14 I go places with my son. 15 But years ago when I worked for 16 Assemblyman Weinstein as counsel to the Majority 17 Leader, there was an Assemblyman Rossetti and 18 one day he slapped me on the back, knocked me 19 down about three or four steps, those of you who 20 knew him, and Assemblyman Moe Weinstein got very 21 upset and said, "What are you doing to the kid?" 22 And Assemblyman Rossetti said, "I only did that 23 because I love the kid," and having said that, I 7971 1 met within a few days someone who I was 2 introduced to as Assemblyman Rossetti's son. 3 I say that because Assemblyman 4 Frank Rossetti, God bless him, I know, hears 5 every word we say and has to be filled with 6 pride that people for years now have referred to 7 him when we could and even now, as Judge 8 Rossetti's father, because Judge Rossetti has 9 made an extraordinary name for himself. 10 Aside from hard working, which is 11 almost, I think, an embarrassment to most of the 12 judges he will tell a litigant and will tell the 13 lawyers if there's a problem, he'll come in on a 14 Saturday or Sunday and get a court reporter. 15 Extraordinarily intellectual and hard working 16 and has been, you know, it would be arrogant to 17 say he's the best judge on the Court of Claims 18 but I'll tell you, there is no better. 19 He is certainly one of the stars 20 of that bench, and one thing which is very 21 important to me is that you talk to the court 22 personnel who deal with Judge Rossetti. There 23 was genuine affection for him as a person. If 7972 1 you talk to the lawyers who deal with Judge 2 Rossetti, there is genuine affection for this 3 judge as a person, and I have seen litigants who 4 leave the courtroom and are satisfied that 5 whatever happened in the case there was a fair 6 shake in that courtroom, and they were treated 7 with dignity. 8 So I am delighted that this 9 wonderful human being has continued on the 10 bench, that he has the capacity to understand 11 that it was five judges -- five governors of 12 different political parties obviously, who had 13 enough faith in him and that the Legislature, in 14 all these years, has had that same faith. 15 So I'm delighted to second this 16 nomination, and we only wish him continued 17 success and good health on the bench. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 19 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 20 nomination? 21 Chair recognizes Senator Marchi. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 23 when I was absent and I had -- I came back here 7973 1 and made comments and references to Judge 2 Rossetti when I was informed that his name had 3 not yet come up, so it was by way of 4 anticipation of the pleasure of participating 5 now. 6 I remember his father well. He 7 was a colleague in the Assembly. I guess I was 8 a colleague to almost everybody going back to 9 DeWitt Clinton; but the description that Senator 10 Gold gave was very accurate. 11 Here on five -- on five 12 successive occasions with different governors, 13 different party, different political time 14 frames, all coming up with a positive verdict on 15 the kind of services that he was rendering, and 16 I -- I remember him as young Frank and then 17 greater things began to happen, but it really is 18 a strong family presence that we've been blessed 19 with in this state, and certainly what is 20 happening here today assures the people of this 21 state of added years of distinguished service in 22 behalf of the administration of justice in this 23 state. 7974 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 2 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 3 Senator Velella, on the 4 nomination. 5 SENATOR VELELLA: Certainly it's 6 my pleasure to rise and support this nomination. 7 The Rossetti family and my family are very, very 8 close. The judge and myself were both born and 9 raised in East Harlem. We've gone -- he's gone 10 on to Nassau County, I to Bronx County, but our 11 families were very, very close through the 12 political process, his dad having been a 13 Democratic district leader and my dad having 14 been a Republican district leader. We fought 15 many battles on the political field but 16 certainly his dad was a man who was a great 17 public servant and he started in that position. 18 They are an outstanding family 19 and have made a tremendous contribution to the 20 state of New York. It's my pleasure to second 21 his nomination. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 23 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 7975 1 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 2 of Frank S. Rossetti to become a member of the 3 New York State Court of Claims. All those in 4 favor of the nomination signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 The nominee is unanimously 9 confirmed. Very pleased to have Judge Rossetti 10 joining us in the chamber today. Welcome, Judge 11 Rossetti. 12 (Applause) 13 Secretary will continue to read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 15 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 16 following nomination: Judge of the New York 17 State Court of Claims, John P. Lane, of 18 Williamsville. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 20 recognizes Senator Lack, on the nomination. 21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 It's my privilege to rise to move 7976 1 the nomination of John P. Lane, of Williams 2 ville, as a new nominee of the Court of Claims 3 and our only new nominee to a vacancy in the 4 Court of Claims we are considering this 5 morning. 6 His bona fides have been 7 carefully examined by the staff of the Judiciary 8 Committee. He has appeared before the 9 committee, answered all the committee's 10 questions and has been unanimously moved to the 11 floor, and it's my pleasure to yield to Senator 12 Rath for a second. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 14 recognizes Senator Rath, on the nomination. 15 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, 16 Chairman Lack. 17 It's with great, great pleasure 18 that I rise to speak about a gentleman in our 19 community being nominated for the Court of 20 Claims today who I've known for over 30 years in 21 many, many capacities. It's wonderful always 22 when judges are confirmed to hear the personal 23 testimonies of so many of my colleagues, and 7977 1 their experiences are not unlike mine with John 2 Lane. 3 John Lane graduated from the 4 University of Buffalo Law School, now known as 5 SUNY at Buffalo, that great big megaschool up in 6 my district, and it's a proud fraternity of 7 lawyers and judges that graduated from the 8 University at Buffalo. 9 John was admitted to practice in 10 1953, and has had a private practice in all of 11 the courts, civil, criminal litigation, 12 corporate, economic, development of land use 13 activities, all fields of law, John has covered 14 them pretty well. 15 He was an assistant district 16 attorney from 1957 to 1961, an associate counsel 17 to the New York State Commission on the Revision 18 of the Penal Law, '61 through '63. For 20 years 19 John served as the deputy town attorney in the 20 town of Amherst and is presently the town 21 attorney in the town of Amherst, a town of 22 115,000, a very large upstate town. 23 John's credentials, as you've all 7978 1 looked at his resume, are impeccable for the 2 work he goes to do. 3 But let me speak to you about 4 John on a personal level. John has been a 5 community and public servant in the town of 6 Amherst and all of western New York all of his 7 life, and it has not just been a job or 8 something that he did as a hobby. It has been a 9 way of life for John, whether it would be in the 10 supermarket, whether it would be at a community 11 meeting, or on Sunday at church. As we lived 12 across the street from each other for 30 years 13 and my husband being an attorney and, of course, 14 John in the same field, there has been lots of 15 conversations and lots of opportunity to rely on 16 John's judgment, which was always objective, 17 knowledgeable and well informed, and for the 18 last 18 years that I've been elected, my first 19 word to John when I would see him, because he 20 knew there would be some questions coming, I'd 21 say, "Counselor" and he would say, "What can I 22 do for you?" 23 And it's been a real privilege, 7979 1 John, to call you "Counselor" all these years 2 and it will be a real pride as I call you 3 "Judge" for the remaining years. 4 It's with great pride that I 5 second the nomination of John Lane. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Is 7 there any other Senator wishing to speak on the 8 nomination? 9 Senator Volker, please. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Let me just say 11 that I too have known John Lane for a long time, 12 probably not as long as Senator Rath, but, in 13 fact, if you look in his resume you'll see that 14 he was assistant counsel to the New York State 15 Commission on Revision of the Penal Law from '61 16 to '63. That was a time when my father was 17 chairman of the Codes Committee, and I know of 18 my father's immense respect for John and for his 19 ability, and I can also say, I think, having 20 been around the legal community in western New 21 York for a number of years, there is hardly 22 anyone I could think of more respected in the 23 legal community in western New York than John 7980 1 Lane. 2 In fact I, frankly, have never 3 heard anyone have anything uncomplimentary to 4 say about John. He's a very popular individual, 5 and -- but more than being just a popular 6 individual, he's a very good lawyer and I think 7 he'll make an excellent judge, and I wish him 8 the best of luck. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 12 Senator Rath yield to a question? 13 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Rath, I 15 heard you talk about all of the public work and 16 all of the things in the community that you say 17 this individual did and, if that's all true, how 18 did he have time to have 11 kids? 19 SENATOR RATH: It was always a 20 mystery, and it's one of those wonderful things 21 about this gentleman that will always be a 22 mystery, but we applaud him for that as well as 23 all the other things. 7981 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Is 2 there any other Senator wishing to speak? The 3 question is on the confirmation of John P. Lane 4 as judge of the New York State Court of Claims. 5 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 John P. Lane is hereby confirmed 10 as judge of the New York State Court of Claims. 11 (Applause) 12 Congratulations, Judge Lane, and 13 we wish you well. 14 Senator -- oh, I'm sorry. 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 17 from the committee on - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Hold on. Hold on, please. Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: For scheduling 21 purposes, there's going to be a meeting of the 22 Transportation Committee at 12:00 noon in Room 23 124 of the Capitol, and there will be an 7982 1 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 332 2 of the Capitol. Immediate meeting of the Rules 3 Committee. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 O.K. Transportation Committee at noon in 124, 6 immediate meeting of the Rules in 332. 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 9 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers the 10 following nomination: Judge of the Chemung 11 County Family, Surrogate's and County Court, 12 Peter C. Buckley, of Elmira. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 Real pleasure to stand and move 18 the nomination of Peter C. Buckley, of Elmira, 19 as a triple-hatted judge in Chemung County. The 20 Governor has sent us this nominee. We have 21 carefully examined his credentials. We have 22 found, in the course of our research, that he 23 was a partner in a law firm, same law firm with 7983 1 member of the Assembly George Winner. 2 Notwithstanding that, which would 3 normally be disqualifying, we have (laughter) we 4 have brought the nominee to the floor anyway. 5 There was some rumor that member of the Assembly 6 Winner might have wanted the job himself, but 7 when he found out it was a triple-hatted judge 8 and you had to know about family law, how to 9 handle estates and practice law, County Court, 10 all the criminal law that goes with it, member 11 of the Assembly Winner immediately removed 12 himself from contention. Good thing you can't 13 talk on this floor, George. 14 But it's a real pleasure that we 15 have Judge Buckley before us, and I'd yield to 16 Senator Kuhl. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 It's my great pleasure to be able 22 to rise and second the nomination of Peter C. 23 Buckley to become, as Senator Lack has said, the 7984 1 triple-hatted judge of Chemung County. 2 One of the things that's most 3 difficult in any kind of a nomination like this 4 is that you realize that, with the type of 5 judgeships that Judge Buckley is being nominated 6 to, that it is a more extensive one as far as 7 demands. 8 As Senator Lack indicated, that 9 not only does a person have to be conversant in 10 family law but also have to be conversant in 11 estate law and they also have to be in a 12 position where they're familiar with criminal 13 law and, as a triple-hatted judge in the vacancy 14 of any Supreme Court judge sitting, they serve 15 as an acting Supreme Court judge. 16 So if there is any all 17 encompassing job in the rural counties of New 18 York, it is the job for which Peter Buckley is 19 being nominated today. 20 Judge Buckley first rose to the 21 bench back in 1980, where he has continued to be 22 seated as a City Court judge. He also has a 23 practice in the civil area and does a lot of 7985 1 litigation, and I don't hold it against him 2 because he's a graduate of law school from St. 3 Johns, being a graduate of Syracuse, because we 4 know that that's not any threat any more. 5 But in any case, while his 6 accomplishments in the legal arena have been 7 outstanding and he has committed to civil 8 service, such things as being the past president 9 of the State Association of City Court Judges, 10 the real interesting part about Judge Buckley is 11 that he is what I consider to be one of the 12 treasures of the community. 13 America is very blessed with a 14 number of treasures. Some people think of our 15 national monuments, some people think of the 16 geography. Some people think of the wealth of 17 our nation, but I treasure and I think of those 18 people in our community as the treasure of our 19 nation, and Judge Buckley is certainly one of 20 those treasures of America, is one of those 21 treasures of the state of New York. He's one of 22 those treasures of the city of Elmira, and I 23 just briefly would run over some of those things 7986 1 that he has done and keep in mind that, when you 2 talk about titles that people have held in their 3 service to their community, they don't 4 automatically just walk in off the street or be 5 put in a position of president or chairman of 6 this, but they rise to those positions through a 7 lot of years of service. 8 For instance, Judge Buckley has 9 been president of a high school board of 10 trustees. He's been chairman of American Red 11 Cross in Chemung County. He's been chairman of 12 the Kiwanis Club. He's been president of what 13 we call the Elmira Drug House which is a 14 troubled center for youth. 15 He has been a member of an 16 alcohol and drug abuse council. He's been a 17 teacher. Imagine somebody filling all these 18 positions having time to be a coach for a Small 19 Fry League and a Little League, and also for a 20 soccer association and he's been honored by 21 several awards in the community. 22 So while I am happy to stand here 23 and second his nomination, I'm also afraid that 7987 1 the time commitment that he's willing to take in 2 providing these duties that are so desperately 3 needed in our criminal justice system and our 4 civil justice system today, I am disappointed at 5 his inability to continue to perform that 6 continued service that he's done so well for the 7 community. 8 So it's a great pleasure for me 9 to be here to second the nomination of Peter 10 Buckley. He will be an outstanding jurist in 11 our area, who will continue to contribute to the 12 community, and I know that seated to my right is 13 Assemblyman George Winner, also joins in that 14 and we're very, very, very happy to be able to 15 second these nominations for you, Judge 16 Buckley. 17 Good luck. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Are 19 there any other Senators wishing to speak on the 20 nomination? The question is on the nomination 21 of Peter C. Buckley, of Elmira as judge of the 22 Chemung County Family, Surrogate's and County 23 Court. All those in favor signify by saying 7988 1 aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Peter C. Buckley is hereby con 6 firmed as judge of the Chemung County Family, 7 surrogate's and County Court. 8 Congratulations, Judge. 9 (Applause) 10 Senator Spano. 11 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 12 can you please have the Secretary go to Calendar 13 Number 1067. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1067, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7484-B, an 18 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 19 disciplinary hearings. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 7989 1 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Senator Lack. 4 SENATOR LACK: Just if you would 5 allow me to explain my vote if I could. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 O.K. Would you read the last section, please. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 The bill we are passing would 18 open up the judicial conduct hearings and it's 19 very appropriate to do so after confirming the 20 group of very distinguished judges we have to 21 day. 22 This bill is certainly not in any 23 controversy on the floor of the Senate. The 7990 1 reason I stand, Mr. President, to briefly 2 explain my vote is that I am somewhat troubled 3 by the New York Law Journal article that appears 4 this morning with respect to this bill. On the 5 one hand, we've heard from the Assembly since 6 I've introduced this bill that this bill was 7 introduced on behalf of the Governor and the 8 Mayor of the city of New York to bash judges. 9 After I met with judges and we've presented what 10 I feel to be a very fair and balanced piece of 11 legislation on the floor this morning, lo and 12 behold, yesterday when a memo was received from 13 the Association of the Bar of the city of New 14 York saying that, by raising the evidentiary 15 standard by which it would be necessary to 16 convict a judge before a hearing of the Judicial 17 Conduct Commission, the Assembly is saying that 18 I'm molly-coddling judges and that by raising 19 the standards, I've made it harder to get rid of 20 judges and that they don't know if they're going 21 to do the bill. 22 Well, you really can't have it 23 both ways, my colleagues and friends in the 7991 1 Assembly, so I make this public appeal to you. 2 It's not the usual way I negotiate bills, but I 3 will immediately, if the Assembly is interested 4 in passing this bill by tomorrow, restore the 5 presumption of evidence standard in the bill to 6 the preponderance of the evidence, immediately 7 restore that, get a message of necessity from 8 the Governor and re-pass the bill with that 9 standard if that's what the Assembly wants and 10 if that's what the Assembly requests, and we'll 11 pass the bill that way tomorrow. 12 Until then, I think we've 13 presented here today and we're passing right now 14 a very fair and balanced bill that is supported 15 by every member of this house that I know of and 16 certainly by most of the judges in this state. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Results, please. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 21 one, Senator Rath recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 bill is passed. 7992 1 Senator Spano. 2 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 3 can we go back to Calendar 776 and then continue 4 with the regular order. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Thank you, Senator. 7 We'll go back -- the Secretary 8 will read Calendar Number 776. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 776, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1434-B, an 11 act to authorize the commissioner of General 12 Services. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 There is a home rule message at the desk. Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 bill is passed. 7993 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1243, by Senator Waldon, Senate Print 1915-C, an 3 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 4 establishing "Native American Day". 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator Waldon. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. President, my colleagues. 9 Very seldom in life are you able 10 to accomplish anything on your own, and that is 11 evidenced by the proposal I have before you for 12 your consideration. 13 It is with the cooperation of the 14 chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Senator 15 Lack, and even some assistance from our leader, 16 Joe Bruno, that I'm able to bring this before 17 you for your consideration today. 18 The word "honor" in Webster's 19 Dictionary is described as follows: It is "a 20 showing of merited respect, recognition, 21 privilege, one's worth brings respect or fame, 22 credit", and forever it seems in the Indian 23 language and amongst those who are members of 7994 1 the Indian Nation, honor has meant a great deal, 2 and when we look at the history of the native 3 Americans here in their indigenous lands, they 4 have many honorable traditions. However, 5 history has oftentimes dealt them a hard card, a 6 wrong hand, but let me just share with you some 7 of the achievements of our Native American 8 sisters and brothers. 9 Way back in the Revolutionary 10 War, the American Revolutionary War, Native 11 Americans played a significant and crucial 12 role. One example is when as allies with the 13 colonists, the Oneida Nation people hiked in 14 mid-winter with 600 bushels of corn on their 15 backs to feed George Washington's starving Army 16 at Valley Forge. The Continental Army had no 17 money and could not send the necessary 18 supplies. Consequently, in gratitude for the 19 Oneida's loyalty and courage, the United States 20 signed a treaty in 1794, guaranteeing the Oneida 21 Nation their sovereign right to govern their 22 lands and affairs. However, that honorable 23 document was broken. 7995 1 All too often in our history, 2 promises to protect and support the rights of 3 Native Americans, like so many others, was 4 quickly forgotten. However, they made other 5 contributions to us of a significant nature. 6 When I say "us", I mean all of those who are 7 Americans in this day in 1996. 8 A clear example: We were very 9 successful in the east during the second World 10 War, and one of the reasons that we were so 11 successful in that battle and those battles was 12 that there were 420 Navajo Marines who were able 13 to communicate and the Japanese were not able to 14 break the code, so to speak, of their native 15 tongue, and so we were able to send our ships to 16 send our troops and to deal most effectively 17 with the enemy because of our Navajo Marines. 18 Some of you, like myself, love 19 things like potato chips or french fries, but 20 are you aware that the potato was first 21 introduced to all of us by the Native 22 Americans? It is not something that emanated in 23 Europe. 7996 1 Cotton was something that the 2 Native Americans shared with us, and we have a 3 great cotton industry in America. 4 Sunflower seeds that you see the 5 baseball players spit out as they sit in the 6 dugout of our major league games. 7 Furthermore, the Native Americans 8 helped those who first arrived here from Europe 9 to transition into our society, so to speak, by 10 teaching them hunting techniques. They taught 11 them how to trade in fur. 12 The architecture of the Native 13 Americans was disregarded to a great extent. 14 There were great pyramids in Cahokia in southern 15 Illinois, the stone buildings at Chaco Canyon in 16 New Mexico or Mesa Verde in Colorado. 17 One of the saddest recollections 18 historically of America's, to wit, discovery by 19 Columbus and the settling eventually by other 20 people from Europe was that he actually - 21 meaning Columbus -- actually began the slave 22 trade. On his first voyage, he took 25 Native 23 Americans back to Spain. On subsequent trips, 7997 1 he took Caribbean Indians to sell to the 2 Portuguese in the Azores. In fact, between 3 3,000 and 6,000 Caribbean Indians were the 4 beginning of the slave trade as we knew it 5 historically as blacks in America. 6 However, despite those historical 7 downsides, I would hope that today would be a 8 joyful day as for the first time in the history 9 of America we create a recognition of the Native 10 Americans, the indigenous people of this land. 11 Nowhere in America is there any bill or law 12 which recognizes the contributions of the people 13 who were here when everyone else arrived, and 14 though this is not a holiday -- that was not 15 possible to do -- it is a day of commemoration, 16 and so today when we pass this bill, we will be 17 celebrating the great contributions of a great 18 people, the indigenous people of America, the 19 first Americans, the Native Americans, and so I 20 applaud those who helped me to bring this to the 21 floor for our consideration, and I applaud each 22 of you in your vote. I hope this passes 23 unanimously so that we could indicate to our 7998 1 Native American brothers and sisters that we too 2 recognize their great contributions to what 3 America stands for in this day in 1996. 4 I thank you, Mr. President. I 5 thank you, my colleagues. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Read the last section. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 I want to, on behalf of the members of this 13 chamber, thank Senator Waldon for his tireless 14 work on this particular subject. He has 15 actually been raising this issue for a period of 16 time, and I was not aware of some of the history 17 -- I was always aware of the history in New 18 York State of the Algonquin and the Iroquois 19 tribes and their contributions. I did not know 20 some of the issues that Senator Waldon raised, 21 the issue of Columbus and the slave trade. I 22 didn't know about the potato crop and its great 23 use as it was offered by Native Americans, and I 7999 1 did not know about the agreement in 1794, 2 although I kind of got the picture through 3 reading history that there must have been a 4 number of agreements that were broken which 5 caused the devastation to the native American 6 nations around what is now the United States of 7 America. 8 I think that it was shocking to 9 hear that nowhere else, in no other state, in no 10 legislature, had there ever been an apt 11 recognition of the Native Americans, and so on 12 Senator Waldon's part, he used a rare 13 combination of skills and a great creativity in 14 order to bring this before us to allow New York 15 State -- to allow this legislature to be the 16 first legislature to address this issue in a way 17 that is suitable for the great contribution that 18 so many Americans whose ancestors live among us 19 today would hopefully be proud. It may not in 20 any way repay the damage or mitigate some of the 21 unfortunate circumstances that were caused by 22 our government, but it certainly demonstrates 23 that those of us living in this generation have 8000 1 some recognition and have some understanding of 2 their great value. 3 And we want to also recognize the 4 great value of our colleague, Senator Waldon, 5 from the 10th Senatorial District in Queens for 6 his fortitude and his unyielding effort on this 7 issue to bring this bill before us today. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 This worthy bill is passed. 18 Senator Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 20 President. Could you ask the Secretary now to 21 call up Calendar Number 1509, by Senator 22 Maltese. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8001 1 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1509. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1509, substituted earlier today, by Member of 4 the Assembly Tokasz, Assembly Print 6212-D, an 5 act to amend the Election Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Kuhl. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, 18 could you now ask the Secretary to call up 19 Calendar Number 1492. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 21 Secretary will call up Calendar Number 1492. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1492, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7556, an 8002 1 act to amend the Administrative Procedure Act. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Read the last section. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Present, an explanation has been asked 8 for by Senator Paterson. 9 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 This proposal amends the State 12 Administrative Procedure Act basically, and I 13 think the administration, after having worked 14 with it for a year, has determined -- and I'll 15 read what the memo says. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Would Senator 19 Present yield for a question? 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Sure. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator Present, will you yield to Senator 23 Paterson? 8003 1 SENATOR PRESENT: I would be glad 2 to. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: If I could 4 remember what the question was. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 6 would be glad to, Senator. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, on 8 the issue of the procedure act that we are 9 referring to right now, in order to -- you have 10 those issues that are major rules and those 11 issues that are minor rules, but you also have a 12 section devoted to those issues that would not 13 create a rule itself, and in your legislation 14 you state that any action that requires the 15 approval of the Governor to become a procedure, 16 that that would not be considered a rule. 17 Therefore, there wouldn't be any publication, 18 and what I would say is just for the purpose of 19 -- of allowing for disclosure, why would we put 20 that in the legislation that those rules that 21 are -- cause an action, an approval to be taken 22 by the Governor, would not be printed, would not 23 be publicized, in a sense allowing any executive 8004 1 -- not just this governor, but it is happening 2 during this governor's term -- it would allow 3 any executive the opportunity to promulgate a 4 lot of rules without there being any real 5 detection or any public scrutiny. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator 7 Paterson, I think that applies primarily to 8 executive orders, and I think the same 9 procedures will be followed as have been in the 10 past. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: But the 12 difference is - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Paterson, do you continue to yield - 15 I'm sorry -- Senator Present. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do 19 you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: The difference 8005 1 is on executive orders, there is a -- kind of a 2 -- a publication of them just by the fact that 3 they are executive orders. This is a little bit 4 different. This is where we're having a 5 rulemaking that requires the approval of the 6 Governor and really it's pretty much 7 undetectible. It's really in a lot of ways not 8 discernible unless there's any apt publication, 9 and the reason that we are distinguishing 10 between the major and minor rules is so that we 11 can have a procedural act in which the public 12 can actually know, and in this era of 13 disclosure, I just thought that it would be 14 better to leave that as an official rule so it 15 would be publicized. 16 I guess it's not really a 17 question, but I'm just asking if it would not be 18 a good idea to leave it as a rule and not put it 19 under the classification where it would not be 20 applied as a rule. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: Senator 22 Paterson, I'm not aware of what you're referring 23 to, what type of rule that the Governor signs. 8006 1 Perhaps you can enlighten me as an example. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 if the Senator would continue to yield. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand 8 the question, Senator Present. The problem is I 9 don't know the answer because I don't know of a 10 situation where it's happened yet, and what I'm 11 trying to find out is why this is in the bill. 12 What kind of situation would this apply to? 13 SENATOR PRESENT: I don't know 14 either. You've made one up and I don't know 15 what it is. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Okay. Thank 17 you, Senator Present. 18 On the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Paterson on the bill. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: I don't know 22 if it's a major thing, but I would advise that 23 it might not be a good idea to pass this 8007 1 legislation until we know under what circum 2 stances this would enable the Governor to 3 actually give approval to a rule and by the 4 nature of that, disqualify the issue as a rule 5 itself, and I think that because we don't know 6 what we're opening up by passing this, it might 7 not be procedurally the best thing to do at this 8 time. 9 Some of the other distinctions in 10 the bill are quite excellent, and I can see why 11 the bill was offered itself, but I'm just a 12 little uncomfortable, to be honest, with the 13 situation or the occasions that might arise 14 where the requirement that there be approval of 15 the Governor would disqualify a rule and would 16 eliminate the possibility of publication. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Read the last section, please. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 20 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8008 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 6 President. I understand there's a Rules report 7 at the desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 There is a Rules report at the desk, sir. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Could we return to 11 the reports of standing committees, and I would 12 ask that the Rules report be read. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 16 offers up the following bills directly for third 17 reading: 18 By Senator Stachowski, Senate 19 Print 1672-A, an act directing the Commissioner 20 of the Division of Criminal Justice Services; 21 By Senator Kruger, Senate Print 22 1871, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 23 Law; 8009 1 By Senator Velella, Senate Print 2 4309-B, an act to amend the New York City Civil 3 Court Act and the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 4 By Senator Hannon, Senate Print 5 4318, an act to amend the Correction Law; 6 By Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7 4422-B, an act to amend the Education Law; 8 By Senator Skelos, Senate Print 9 4842-A, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 10 and Rules; 11 By Senator Tully, Senate Print 12 4908-A, an act to authorize the county of 13 Nassau; 14 By Senator Goodman, Senate Print 15 5242-A, an act to amend the General Municipal 16 Law; 17 By Senator Hoffmann, Senate Print 18 5921, an act to legalize, validate and confirm 19 the establishment of a water district; 20 By Senator DeFrancisco, Senate 21 Print 6069, an act to amend the Tax Law; 22 By Senator Holland, Senate Print 23 6152, an act to permit the reopening of the 8010 1 optional 20-year retirement plan; 2 By Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3 6186, an act to amend the Judiciary Law; 4 By Senator Seward, Senate Print 5 6215, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 6 By Senator Larkin, Senate Print 7 6504, an act to authorize the village of 8 Washingtonville; 9 By Senator Saland, Senate Print 10 7668, an act to amend the Social Services Law; 11 By Senator Spano, 7703, an act to 12 amend the Labor Law; 13 By Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 14 7726, an act to amend Chapter 30 of the Laws of 15 1996; 16 By Senator Hoblock, Senate Print 17 7738, an act to amend the Civil Service Law; 18 By the Senate Committee on Rules, 19 Senate Print 7739, an act to amend Chapter 892 20 of the Laws of 1986; 21 By the Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Print 7755, an act to authorize the conveyance 23 of a permanent and temporary easement. 8011 1 All bills directly for third 2 reading. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Move to accept the 4 report of the Rules Committee, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All 6 in favor of accepting the Rules Committee 7 signify by saying aye. 8 (Response of "Aye".) 9 Opposed, nay. 10 (There was no response.) 11 The report is accepted. 12 We have a couple substitutions to 13 read, sir. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Would you read the 15 substitutions, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Thank you. 18 The Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: On page 29, 20 Senator Padavan moves to discharge from the 21 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 10694 22 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 23 7440. 8012 1 On page 33, Senator Leibell moves 2 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 3 Assembly Bill Number 8906-A and substitute it 4 for the identical Senate Bill 6800-A. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 6 substitutions will be made. 7 Senator Kuhl. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 9 President. I believe Senator Paterson has an 10 announcement at this time for the Minority 11 members. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Senator Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 15 there will be a Minority Conference in the 16 Minority Conference Room at 12:30. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Is there any other 18 housekeeping at the desk? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: No, 20 sir. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Then, Mr. 22 President, I would ask that we stand at ease. 23 We're going to allow the Senate Minority members 8013 1 to conference at 12:30 and allow the Majority 2 members to get a bite to eat and we will resume 3 promptly -- promptly at 1:30 on the 4 controversial calendar. So I would move that we 5 stand at ease. 6 I see Senator Paterson has an 7 additional announcement. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 I would hope that the Majority Conference 13 members enjoy their lunch. We are already fed 14 up, but the point is that since we're going to 15 stand at ease now, we will have this Minority 16 Conference immediately in the Minority 17 Conference Room. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Conference immediately. The Senate will stand 20 at ease until 1:30. 21 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 22 ease from 12:25 p.m. until 1:36 p.m.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8014 1 The Senate is back in session. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 if we could continue the controversial calendar, 5 beginning with Calendar Number 1332, by Senator 6 Kuhl. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1332, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6576-B, an 11 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law 12 and the Tax Law, in relation to a pilot program 13 for interstate shipment of certain wines. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been asked for. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 18 President. This is a bill that has a history in 19 this house, a rather short one. It's a bill 20 that we have been trying to get in an approvable 21 form and a bill that would hopefully provide and 22 I believe would provide a significant economic 23 impact to a segment of our agricultural 8015 1 industry, primarily the wine-making industry. 2 The bill is what's commonly 3 referred to as a reciprocal wine shipping bill. 4 It is a bill which is meant to allow people who 5 come and visit the state as a tourist and who 6 participate in the tourism activities of this 7 state by visiting one of our hundred-plus 8 wineries the opportunity to go home to wherever 9 that might be, in a state such as, say 10 California, Oregon, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, 11 Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida or whatever, 12 and to be able to send a note back, either by 13 mail or phone and ask that the winery they 14 visited ship them some wine. 15 There are limitations in the 16 bill. The limitations would only allow a person 17 to buy two cases of wine from any one winery a 18 year. It would only allow the deliverance of 19 the wine to somebody who is legal to purchase 20 the wine in this country, that being the 21 individual would have to be older than 21 years 22 of age. That is the basic essence of what the 23 bill does. 8016 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Onorato. 3 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 4 I am fully cognizant of the accomplishments that 5 Senator Kuhl is trying to do with this bill, but 6 I really honestly and sincerely believe that 7 just the opposite is going to be the truth if 8 this bill becomes law. 9 New York state is not necessarily 10 known for its wine products, even though we have 11 a wonderful winery. I think the problem lies 12 not so much maybe in the quality of the wine but 13 in the lack of promotion of the wine, and I 14 think we could probably best accomplish 15 assisting our wine growers in this state by 16 perhaps giving some sort of a tax incentive by 17 forming some sort of a coalition of all of the 18 wineries in the state of New York where they can 19 actually promote their product. 20 I remember a few years back, I 21 discussed a bill with the wine coolers, how 22 everybody thought it was going to be the answer 23 that the wine growers in the state of New York 8017 1 were going to have a bonanza. I think they did 2 perhaps for the first -- when we created an 3 exclusive market for them, but this is not the 4 case here, and I believe that California at the 5 current time supplies over 50 percent of the 6 wine to New York State. They produce over 50 7 percent of it, and - 8 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 Senator Kuhl, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR KUHL: Would Senator 12 Onorato yield to a question? 13 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I will, 14 Senator. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Onorato, 16 were you in this chamber in 1984? 17 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I was. 18 SENATOR KUHL: And are you -- or 19 do you remember in 1984 this Legislature as a 20 result of a tremendous economic difficult time 21 adopted a piece of legislation which was meant 22 to help the wine industry? 23 SENATOR ONORATO: Are you 8018 1 referring to the wine cooler? 2 SENATOR KUHL: No, not that 3 particular one. That was a piece of an overall 4 product, but are you -- let me ask it another 5 way, if I may, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 7 Senator Onorato, do you still yield? 8 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I yield. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Are you aware that 10 there currently exists by statute creation in 11 this state an organization called the New York 12 Wine and Grape Foundation? 13 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I am. 14 SENATOR KUHL: And last year are 15 you aware that this state funded that 16 organization to the tune of about $500,000? 17 SENATOR ONORATO: I was not aware 18 of that. 19 SENATOR KUHL: And are you aware 20 that in addition to the state obligation -- or I 21 should say appropriation of $500,000, that the 22 agricultural participants in that industry also 23 participate by sending in a significant amount 8019 1 of money? 2 SENATOR ONORATO: They probably 3 do. 4 SENATOR KUHL: And if I may 5 continue, Mr. President - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: Do 7 you continue to yield, Senator? 8 SENATOR ONORATO: I continue to 9 yield. 10 SENATOR KUHL: The point in 11 asking these questions, Senator Onorato, is not 12 one to cause you any embarrassment, but to try 13 to get you to understand there already is an 14 institution called the New York Wine and Grape 15 Foundation in this state and their particular 16 charge -- they are not allowed to lobby this 17 particular institution, but are you aware that 18 their specific legislative charge is to promote 19 and to indulge in research for the benefit of 20 that industry? 21 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I am. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8020 1 Senator Onorato. 2 SENATOR ONORATO: I'm also aware 3 that I don't see anything on television 4 advertising the New York State products the way 5 you see the California winery, the Gallo Wine 6 Company, the imports from overseas. 7 As I recall, years ago I stated 8 that perhaps one of the worst pieces of garbage 9 that was produced by a winery in Italy was the 10 number one seller in the United States because 11 they had this little Italian fellow, debonair in 12 a white suit with a white hat going "Do you want 13 to influence all the women in this world? Buy 14 Riunite on the rocks, under the rocks, alongside 15 of the rocks", and they had all the girls 16 swarming around him. That became the number one 17 seller in the United States, believe it or not, 18 and it was rated by -- not by myself, by wine 19 critics as perhaps the worst piece of garbage 20 that ever came into the country, but it became 21 the number one seller, and this is what I'm 22 trying to bring about that perhaps all of the 23 money that was expended through all of these 8021 1 organizations, they haven't learned how to 2 market. That's the name of the game when you 3 have a product, whether it's good or it's not 4 good. Marketing determines the sales of your 5 product, not a reciprocal wine bill, and are you 6 aware now -- we also -- just recently, we have a 7 -- a new organization called Sell Master that 8 will accomplish exactly what you're telling us 9 to do. 10 Sell Master is an organization in 11 Illinois which will serve any winery in the 12 country who has no distribution in any given 13 state by setting up sales and delivery in that 14 state. It's licensed as a broker in New York. 15 They can serve any New York winery and can 16 arrange delivery to a consumer in any open state 17 where retailing is a private business and to do 18 so in full conformity with the laws of the 19 recipient state. There is no loss of taxes to 20 any state. No out-of-state licensing is 21 necessary and any wine consumer can be 22 satisfied. 23 Now, there is in existence a 8022 1 mechanism to do just what you're doing and still 2 retain all of the taxes that would be coming 3 into the state of New York. I'm not sure if 4 you're aware of the fact that this concurrent 5 bill, even the amended version, while I'm glad 6 that you did amend it and put a sunset on it to 7 three years, that it's opposed by the 8 Metropolitan Package Store Associations, the 9 Liquor and Sales Union Local Number 2 that 10 handle all of the salesmen, the Federation of 11 New York State Package Store Association, the 12 Fine Wines Limited, the teamsters and warehouse 13 handlers that handle the product. They will be 14 losing jobs if this actually goes through by 15 bypassing the wineries. 16 So, Senator, I really urge you to 17 reconsider your position on this bill, and I 18 would urge my colleagues for a no vote. There's 19 absolutely no way you can enforce the teamsters 20 or the deliverer to ensure that we're not 21 putting this wine into an individual's home that 22 is under 21 years of age. 23 Now, all of us are aware when you 8023 1 get a delivery from UPS, nobody asks you for 2 proof of age to receive the product. They're 3 not going to start spending that kind of time to 4 ask you for proof of age. It may be obvious if 5 a three-year-old kid comes and answers the door, 6 they may not deliver the packet of wine to them, 7 but anyone else who looks halfway decent to 8 them, they're going to deliver that package of 9 wine. 10 So it's really not going to do us 11 any good, but, again, overall New York State 12 will not be the beneficiary of this 13 legislation. California again will be the 14 outstanding -- because they currently are out 15 selling all of the wine coolers of New York 16 State. I don't hear anything at all anymore 17 about New York wine coolers. 18 So, again, Senator Kuhl, I would 19 urge you to lay this bill aside and forget about 20 it. If not, I would urge my colleagues on both 21 sides of the aisle to vote against this 22 legislation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8024 1 Read the last section. 2 Senator Dollinger -- Senator 3 Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 5 I think that Senator Onorato made some excellent 6 points. I voted for this legislation last 7 year. The Governor's veto caused me to take a 8 second look at it, and some of the points that 9 Senator Onorato is making are kind of 10 disturbing, particularly the one -- since we've 11 had some legislation before us that everybody 12 voted for -- involving the use of alcohol by 13 those under the age of 21 and some severe 14 restrictions that we are placing on these 15 individuals. 16 It would seem a little bit 17 inconsistent to pass this legislation when we 18 have really no way of regulating the merchandise 19 as it's sent to individuals and no way of 20 knowing what their age is, but beyond what 21 Senator Onorato said, there's a restriction now 22 that it just be white wine. There's no real way 23 of proving that. In fact, there's no real way, 8025 1 when the packages are shipped, to know that 2 they're even wine in the first place, and 3 Senator Onorato went through a number of 4 organizations and groups that have sent -- that 5 have sent memoranda, and then he outlined this 6 process that actually seems to be substituted, I 7 guess almost like an FTD arrangement for 8 distribution of alcohol which would probably 9 accomplish what Senator Kuhl is trying to 10 endeavor in this bill but without any of the - 11 without any of the costs. The benefits would 12 seem to go to other states, particularly 13 California. The loss would go to New York State 14 in the form of jobs and in the form of industry, 15 and so, upon reconsideration, I would have to 16 say that Senator Onorato has enlightened the 17 chamber, and I'm certainly one who will heed the 18 call. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Read the last section. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, may I ask Senator Kuhl one question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8026 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 Senator Kuhl, do you yield to a 3 question? 4 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 5 to. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 7 understand that there were a series of letters 8 in opposition that were delivered to the 9 Governor asking him to veto this bill. Do you 10 know who those entities were and whether they 11 still are opposed to this bill or not? 12 SENATOR KUHL: I don't know as I 13 ever saw, Senator, the memos in opposition that 14 were filed with the Governor. I can guess as to 15 it and I'll be happy to render a guess as to who 16 might have filed in opposition. I have seen 17 memos in opposition last year. I'm seeing the 18 same kind of memos in opposition this year, and 19 these are coming from organizations like the 20 Metropolitan Package Store Association, the New 21 York State Wholesale Wine and Spirits Dealer 22 Association. 23 Those have been these people who 8027 1 have a monopoly in wine sales in this state and 2 who are fearful of a small wine seller selling 3 two cases to some individual in another state 4 who cannot get that wine any other way. They 5 can't even come to New York and go to a liquor 6 store and find that wine because these people 7 will not carry these wines because they take up 8 too much shelf space and they want to provide 9 that shelf space to California wines. So, in 10 fact, those wines are sold in New York over and 11 above the local product. These are the people, 12 these monopolistic purveyors who want to 13 continue that monopolistic approach are the ones 14 who are filing that opposition. Those are the 15 only people that I have seen filing memos of 16 opposition and they continue to oppose the bill 17 because they don't want to see the New York wine 18 industry thrive. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Senator Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 22 Mr. President. I'm not concerned about the 23 monopolists. I guess I look at those memos from 8028 1 the same perspective as Senator Kuhl. My 2 question is what about the local wineries, 3 Canandaigua, some of the -- Glenora Hills, some 4 of the wineries in Monroe County and the Finger 5 Lakes region. Do you know whether they favor 6 this bill or not? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8 Senator Kuhl. 9 SENATOR KUHL: In response to 10 your question, Senator Dollinger -- and it's a 11 very uncomfortable position that these people 12 who are in the wine sales industry find 13 themselves, and let me go back to, you know, 14 everybody seems to be throwing red herrings here 15 around and I understand why, but let me tell 16 you, there's one single purpose -- in response 17 to your question -- there is one single purpose 18 to this bill, and it's very simple. There are 19 small wineries who have a request who would like 20 to sell their wine to somebody from another 21 state. There is no opportunity for those other 22 -- those people in the other states to get that 23 wine from any place other than from the winery 8029 1 itself. They have developed a taste. They have 2 acquired a liking for that particular product, 3 and they can't find it through any other outlet 4 so they have to come to the winery, and the 5 problem is the winery is prohibited by law, 6 unless we change it -- well, unless the other 7 state changes it -- to ship to those particular 8 people. That is the only reason for the bill. 9 Now, are there wineries that are 10 saying they don't want this bill? Yes. There 11 are some wineries who have said -- some large 12 ones -- it's not going to make a difference to 13 them because it's not going to affect their 14 sales one way or another. They have outlets. 15 There are -- small wineries have written to me 16 and said, Yes, we support this bill because it's 17 -- it will increase our business by 20 or 30 or 18 40 percent and they say 20 to 50 percent of our 19 sales are to tourists and those tourists go home 20 and that's where we want to. 21 Are there other wineries that are 22 in the middle? Yes. There are other wineries 23 in the middle who have been told by people who 8030 1 have filed the memos in opposition, that if they 2 don't -- if they don't write a letter in 3 opposition to this bill that, in fact, their 4 wine will never see one day of sunlight in that 5 store that they provide this product to. 6 So they're using the strong arm 7 of their economic position to force denial of 8 the acceptance of this legislation. If there's 9 anything in this world that infuriates me more, 10 it is that, okay? There is nothing that 11 infuriates me more than somebody using their 12 position when they're in so-called the Goliath 13 position in holding the thumb over that poor 14 person who has no other outlet and who in the 15 end result can fail. 16 So, yes, the answer to your 17 question is that there are people who have filed 18 wineries letters of opposition, but I can tell 19 you it's under economic duress. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 21 Senator Dollinger. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I appreciate 23 Senator Kuhl's extreme candor. 8031 1 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 2 Senator Onorato. 3 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 4 I would just like to make a clarification. 5 Senator Kuhl, I don't know if you 6 are aware that the SLA has licensed Sell Master, 7 and I think it became effective in March of this 8 year - 9 SENATOR KUHL: Sell Master - 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Excuse me - 11 which will enable any winery in the state of New 12 York, including those that you are referring to, 13 to get their product out the same way. They can 14 do it. You made a statement that you may not be 15 aware - 16 SENATOR KUHL: Would Senator 17 Onorato respond to a question? 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I will. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Excuse me. Was there a question, Senator 21 Onorato? 22 SENATOR ONORATO: I wanted to 23 know if he was aware of Sell Master which can 8032 1 accomplish exactly what he's asking this body to 2 do right now. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. I am aware 6 of an organization called Seller Masters, okay? 7 It is a new concept that has come in as far as 8 marketing goes. My only question to you would 9 be, seeing as though you rest -- you raised the 10 issue, Senator Onorato, do you know what 11 additional cost this is not only to the winery 12 to participate in this but to the consumer in 13 the end result? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 15 Senator Onorato, do you yield to that question? 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I will. I 17 don't know how much more it will cost with 18 Seller Master,* but there is also an additional 19 cost by shipping it themselves as a shipping 20 cost that they wouldn't have had to pay for it 21 if they bought it locally. No matter which way 22 you look at it, they're not going to be getting 23 bargains because there's approximately a $3.50 8033 1 per bottle charge in shipping it. I mean, 2 they're not going to buy it any cheaper. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 4 Senator Kuhl, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR KUHL: Well, to ask 6 Senator Onorato a question. The question simply 7 was, are you telling me that Seller Master 8 provides the service of distribution to the 9 small wineries at no cost but just the cost of 10 shipping? 11 SENATOR ONORATO: I don't know 12 what -- I don't have the full detail as to what 13 their -- as a middleman charge, but I do want 14 you to know that there is a vehicle out there. 15 I mean, I'm only clarifying a statement that you 16 said there was no way that the small wineries 17 can get their product out without this 18 legislation. 19 SENATOR KUHL: If Senator Onorato 20 would yield to another question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 22 Senator Onorato, would you yield? 23 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes, I will, 8034 1 Mr. President. 2 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Onorato, 3 from getting -- from what you're saying -- you 4 were saying that you support the concept of 5 Seller Master which we know will cost something 6 to the consumer rather than a cheaper 7 methodology which I'm proposing in my bill, 8 which is a direct sale. So are you supporting a 9 concept of using something called Seller Master 10 which is going to create additional costs to the 11 consumer rather than supporting my bill which 12 will allow for direct sales from the producer to 13 the consumer without imposing the cost of the 14 middleman to the consumer? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 16 Senator Onorato. 17 SENATOR ONORATO: I have to 18 agree, Senator, that there will be -- I don't 19 know what their commission charges are, but 20 nobody in this world is doing anything for 21 nothing. We know there's no free lunch around. 22 So I agree that there will be commission 23 charges. What they are, I can't answer you. I 8035 1 just want to make sure that we do -- are aware 2 that there is a mechanism out there for them to 3 distribute their product. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 7 act shall take effect on the first day of a 8 sales tax quarterly period. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 14 Senator Tully. 15 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. To explain my vote. 17 I really wasn't sure what I was 18 going to do to with respect to this bill, but I 19 want to thank Senator Dollinger, Senator 20 Onorato, Senator Paterson for bringing out from 21 their Goliath side the best in the David of 22 Senator Kuhl because his lucid explanation after 23 the remarks made by my three colleagues that I 8036 1 referred to earlier has totally convinced me 2 that this bill is in the best interests of 3 business in this state and particularly the wine 4 industry of this state, and I vote aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 1332: Senators 7 Abate, Leichter, Markowitz, Onorato, Padavan, 8 Paterson and Smith; also Senator Dollinger. 9 Ayes 50, nays 8. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 11 The Secretary will read -- excuse me. The bill 12 is passed. 13 The Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1408, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4754-A, 16 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 17 city of New York, in relation to the 18 establishment of a 25-year retirement program. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 8037 1 Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 5 The bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1485, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6249-A, an 8 act to amend the Public Service Law, in relation 9 to the tariff of filings for non-basic 10 telecommunications services. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: An 13 explanation has been asked for. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 what this legislation would do is reduce the 17 time of notice for filing requirements for 18 non-basic -- and I underline "non-basic" - 19 services for telephone companies required by the 20 Public Service Commission from 30 days down to 21 10 business days. 22 As we all know, competition in 23 non-basic services in the telecommunications 8038 1 area is growing. The tariff filings required by 2 the PSC to protect the consumer from price 3 increases is creating, in many instances, a 4 disadvantage for New York State phone 5 companies. Some of those companies are State 6 Telephone, Crown Point Telephone Company, 7 Citizens Telecom, Oneida County Telephone, 8 Fishers Island, NYNEX, Rochester, Berkshire 9 Telephone Company and the long distance carriers 10 -- out-of-state carriers that they compete with 11 are Sprint of Kansas City, AT&T of New Jersey, 12 MCI of Washington, D.C. 13 The problem is that the out-of 14 state carriers, when they make an application 15 with the PSC, it has been the practice that that 16 is approved within one day and New York State 17 companies it will take 30 days. 18 What happens is during this 19 period of time, the out-of-state carriers can 20 review the new fee or tariffs that are set by 21 the companies and then underprice them during 22 this period of time. Therefore, what this 23 legislation would say, bring it down to ten 8039 1 business days so that our New York State 2 companies can be competitive in non-basic 3 services with these out-of-state carriers and, 4 of course, the Public Service Commission would 5 still have oversight and the ability to audit 6 these services. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT DeFRANCISCO: 9 Senator Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Would 11 Senator Skelos yield, please. 12 Senator, let me ask you to 13 comment on this concern I have, and that in a 14 ten-day period, that the Public Service 15 Commission may not have an adequate amount of 16 time to review whatever change in tariffs, 17 rates, services are being made and, therefore, 18 cannot act to protect the New York consumers. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, first of 20 all, the out-of-state, such as MCI, AT&T, 21 Sprint, one day. The response is made one day. 22 New York State -- and we're 23 talking about things like call waiting, 8040 1 different, non-basic services. That's what 2 we're talking about which is now a tremendous 3 amount of competition. Rather than the 30-day 4 period, we're talking about giving them ten 5 business days. So it's actually more than ten 6 actual days. 7 If the Public Service Commission 8 can act for these out-of-state mega companies, I 9 think they can certainly act appropriately 10 within ten days for New York State companies, 11 whether it's a large company like NYNEX or it's 12 a small local phone company like on Fishers 13 Island and many upstate committees. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, will 15 you continue to yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senator continues to yield. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm 23 not familiar with the procedures here. You say 8041 1 that they act within one day on requests made by 2 AT&T, MCI, and so on. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Right. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Why is that? 5 Why do they do that in one day and for -- the 6 local companies take a longer period of time? 7 SENATOR SKELOS: I don't believe 8 they're as regulated as our local -- and I think 9 Kemp mentions, I think there's also preemption 10 by the federal government. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 12 preemption is always a problem for us. We run 13 into the same difficulty in banking where we 14 want to protect New York consumers, but very 15 often New York banks have to compete with 16 national banks. We have to permit practices 17 that maybe we would not like if we could totally 18 control the situation and maybe -- maybe that's 19 the same situation here. 20 I'm just a little concerned. You 21 take these upstate communities. You take some 22 of the services even in urban areas, and so on. 23 These are expensive; they're important, and so 8042 1 on. We want to have a process where people have 2 sufficient time to respond. It just seems to me 3 that if you reduce the amount of time, that ten 4 days, I mean - 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Ten business 6 days. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Ten business 8 days. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: And, Senator 10 Leichter, let me just point out again, we're 11 talking about non-basic services where there is 12 -- not basic services like a dial tone - 13 non-basic services which is extremely 14 competitive. So no phone company -- New York 15 State phone company -- is going to go out and 16 come up with outrageous tariff increases 17 because, I'm sure as you get phone calls every 18 day, MCI, Sprint and other companies are waiting 19 to move right in and take this business away 20 from our New York companies. We're talking 21 about non-basic services. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. If 23 you would continue to yield, Senator. 8043 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I mean, how 3 competitive are they? I mean, for instance, if 4 I want to get voice call or phone waiting, and 5 so on, I've got to go through my carrier NYNEX. 6 Where is the competition? 7 SENATOR SKELOS: That's not 8 true. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: It isn't? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: You can go to 11 Sprint. You can get it from other companies. 12 They're selling it at extremely competitive and 13 potentially lucrative areas for these companies, 14 and all we're saying by this legislation is 15 allow New York State companies to be competitive 16 with these out-of-state companies. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, one 18 final question. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: What does the 21 Public Service Commission say about this bill? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: They're 23 neutral. We have nothing in support or 8044 1 opposition from them. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Has there been 3 an attempt to ask them their view on this 4 legislation? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: We have worked 6 with them, but in all honesty, we do not have 7 anything in opposition or in favor of the 8 legislation. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Goodman, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR GOODMAN: May I be 21 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 22 140... 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8045 1 Goodman, hold on just a minute. The bill is 2 passed. 3 The Chair recognizes Senator 4 Goodman. 5 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you. 6 Calendar 1408, negative vote, 7 please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Goodman 10 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 11 Number 1408. 12 Senator Padavan, why do you 13 rise? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, Mr. 15 President. With unanimous consent, may I be 16 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1521. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1520... 18 Senator Padavan, 1520... 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: 21. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: ...21. 21 Without objection, hearing no objection, Senator 22 Padavan will be recorded in the negative on 23 Calendar Number 1521. 8046 1 Senator Kruger. 2 SENATOR KRUGER: Mr. President, I 3 would ask unanimous consent to be recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar Number 1088. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Kruger 7 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 8 Number 1088. 9 Any other Senators wishing to 10 register a vote? 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 13 you, Mr. President. 14 I would like unanimous consent to 15 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 16 1088 also. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 19 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 20 Calendar Number 1088. 21 Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 23 with my deepest apologies to you personally, I 8047 1 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 2 negative on Calendar Number 1332. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Did I 4 hear an objection? Without objection, Senator 5 Gold will be recorded in the negative on 6 Calendar Number 1332. 7 Senator Rath. 8 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, may 9 I request how was I recorded on Calendar 1067, 10 please? How was I recorded on Calendar 1067, 11 please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're 13 recorded in the affirmative on Calendar Number 14 1067, Senator Rath. 15 SENATOR RATH: I would request 16 with unanimous consent that I'd like my record 17 to be recorded as an abstention, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 19 objection, Senator Rath will be marked as 20 abstaining from a vote on Calendar Number 1067. 21 Any other Senators wishing to 22 register any votes at this time? 23 Senator Leichter. 8048 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: May I have 2 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 3 on Calendar 1408, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, Senator Leichter will be recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 1408. 7 Any other Senators wishing to 8 register a vote at this time? 9 (There was no response.) 10 Hearing none, Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Could you call 12 up Senator Hannon's bill, Calendar Number 1496. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 15 1496. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1496, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7580, an 18 act to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act 19 of 1974. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Hannon, an explanation has been asked for of 23 Calendar Number 1496. 8049 1 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. This 2 legislation would exempt from the Emergency 3 Tenant Protection Act of 1974 those housing 4 accommodations known as lodging houses. 5 One might ask why are you just 6 doing this now? And that is because in November 7 of 1995 for the first time after long existence 8 of these statutes a court in -- the appellate 9 court said that there is no specific exemption 10 of them, although the practice had been to 11 exempt them, the seemingly acceptance of all the 12 parties involved and since there was nothing 13 specifically to exempt them in the statute, they 14 were going to consider them included. This 15 would simply ratify the existing practice. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 if Senator Hannon would kindly yield for a 18 question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Hannon, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 21 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8050 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 3 Hannon, when Emergency Tenant Protection Act was 4 passed in 1974, there were 14 exceptions to the 5 act which over the years have been well held in 6 our law as we've ratified and extended the law 7 many times since then. 8 The issue of the lodging houses 9 is very important because, although it might 10 appear that individuals who reside in those 11 houses are transient or just there for a short 12 period of time, the individual who is involved 13 in the case that you're referring to, Grace 14 Corp. Realty versus Hargrove was -- actually 15 resided in this particular house since 1988 and 16 brought the case in 1994 in state Supreme 17 Court. Now, the appellate court upheld the fact 18 that there is no exception to the Emergency 19 Tenant Protection Act. 20 Now, Court of Appeals has leave 21 to examine this case, but what I would like you 22 to know is that this is a source of housing for 23 individuals who cannot even meet the threshold 8051 1 of protection that would exist in public 2 housing, and should we pass this piece of 3 legislation and make a law that would enable the 4 owners of these lodging houses to just throw 5 people out randomly, we could be opening the 6 door to possible scams. We could see people who 7 would take their apartment buildings and then 8 try to have them declared lodging houses to 9 maybe wipe out all the tenants, raise the 10 apartments to the housing rate. There are a lot 11 of things that could happen under this. 12 In the meantime, there are a 13 number of individuals who would benefit greatly 14 since the individual in the Grace Corp. Realty 15 versus Hargrove case was a person that had lived 16 there for six years. 17 So my question to you is why 18 would we want to eliminate this protection under 19 the -- under the Emergency Tenant Protection Act 20 of 1974 when we would harm so many low income - 21 very low income residents in this state? 22 SENATOR HANNON: Senator 23 Paterson, I must respectfully, but very 8052 1 strenuously disagree with the premises that are 2 inherent in your question, and you're very clear 3 to set forth those premises, so let me deal with 4 them. 5 First of all, you said people 6 would benefit greatly. I totally disagree. The 7 practice has not been to have this group of 8 buildings included within rent control. So 9 there's no benefit. Whatever has been happening 10 has been happening. 11 Second, you said conversion. 12 Well, if you have to do the conversion, you'd 13 have to get approval of DHCR, and I'm sure 14 that's not going to happen and it has not 15 happened. If it was an incentive, it would have 16 been happening. 17 Lastly, you said this is a class 18 of individuals who you want to make sure there's 19 housing for. On that goal, I am in total 20 agreement with you. I was very delighted to 21 read recently in the paper how well the SRO 22 housing at Times Square is doing. I personally 23 carried the legislation to make sure there was 8053 1 bonding authority to make sure that SRO was 2 implemented. I remember going over in detail 3 with the borrowing agency and the planning 4 agency in the city of New York to make sure it 5 would not be too large a problem. It would not 6 be subject to any of the ills we had found in 7 SROs in the past. 8 With that experience very vividly 9 in my mind when we were going through changes in 10 rent control statutes in the past, I know this 11 never came up. This was not a class we were 12 worried about. We looked into it. The vacancy 13 rates in this area is in the area of one-third 14 to 40 percent. I agree that we ought to have 15 the SROs. I am not doing anything to undercut 16 that. 17 So why are we doing this now? 18 We're just really going back to the status quo 19 of last November, not trying to make any great 20 changes, not trying to make any great reforms. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 22 you. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 8054 1 President. If Senator Hannon would continue to 2 yield. 3 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 5 Hannon, I'm familiar with your working involving 6 the bonding agency and the SROs at 42nd Street, 7 and no one is questioning your individual 8 commitment to establish low income housing. 9 However, as it's reflected in this piece of 10 legislation, since you've dedicated the energy 11 to challenge some of the points that I'm 12 raising, what I'd like you to be aware of is, 13 first of all, though you may maintain that this 14 has been the tradition, that is not what the 15 court held in that decision, and although I will 16 grant you that the Court of Appeals may still 17 rule on this, the fact is that the New York 18 State Supreme Court and the Appellate Division 19 in 1995 ruling on this case -- it was brought in 20 1994 -- of Grace Corp. Realty versus Hargrove 21 that that -- the law says that it's always been 22 that way, and if that's the case, then that 23 would be the reason that nobody tried to convert 8055 1 those houses because they knew under the law 2 they could not, but the issue, as far as SROs, 3 certainly seems to bother the Lower East Side 4 SRO project, which is in Senator Abate's 5 district, and also the West Side SRO project, 6 which is in my district. 7 We understand that in 1980, there 8 were 127,000 New York City residents that lived 9 in SROs and because of the whittling away of 10 housing in fashions such as we think this bill 11 would accomplish, by 1986, there were 9,000 12 individuals living in SROs and it actually added 13 to the 40 to 60 homeless people,** men, women 14 and children who were wandering the streets of 15 the city of New York. 16 So we could be wrong, but we are 17 nonetheless sensitive to the fact that at SROs, 18 there has been at least a form of housing for 19 certain individuals and in these lodging houses 20 because of the poor housing stock, that's the 21 reason that the individuals are not transient 22 since we don't have any housing available, since 23 we have housing -- in my district, if you walk 8056 1 through Harlem from First Avenue to Morningside 2 Avenue, you see the burned-out and abandoned 3 housing that is more synonymous with the urban 4 life that occurred in the South Bronx or 5 Brownsville 20 to 25 years ago. 6 This is the reason that we're so 7 concerned about this legislation, and so what 8 I'm trying to respond in kind is by letting you 9 know that there is a great deal of paranoia, I 10 will -- I will admit, about what's going to 11 happen to SROs, but if we just stick to the 12 point of lodging, the courts have not held what 13 you're stating. You say that it's a tradition. 14 They went to court. The court said it's not a 15 tradition, and so I'm just asking how in the 16 face of those court decisions we can be acting 17 upon this legislation at this time? 18 SENATOR HANNON: To undo the 19 court decision. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 21 Senator Hannon. 22 Mr. President, on the bill. 23 Senator Hannon feels we should 8057 1 undo the court decision and if he wants to 2 change the law, then I'm glad that he's at least 3 informing us that he wants to change the law, 4 but I don't think that there's been any -- any 5 -- anything other than adherence with the law 6 since 1974, according to the courts, and that is 7 the reason why we think that the individuals who 8 are very much indigent who wind up often paying 9 their rents on a daily basis in these lodging 10 houses, we would not like to see them thrown out 11 in the streets. They have -- really, in many 12 places, have to take the place of SROs in New 13 York City and we don't want to add to the burden 14 that our city administration and all of our 15 agencies and facilities have by increasing the 16 number of homeless which we've finally gotten 17 down to about 33,000 around the City and drive 18 it back up to the numbers and the staggering 19 statistics of ten years ago when we saw people 20 living three stories down in Grand Central 21 Station and in other places, in very squalid 22 conditions creating all kinds of health hazards 23 and nuisances to the residents that live around 8058 1 New York City. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Abate. 4 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I would 5 like to join with my - 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: May I? 7 Mr. President, would Senator 8 Hannon yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Actually, 10 Senator Paterson had the floor, Senator Padavan, 11 and he yielded. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: He did? My 13 apologies. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You were 15 next. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you. 17 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. I 18 am joining my colleague, Senator Paterson, in 19 opposition to this bill. I've spoken with a 20 number of my -- the SRO projects in my 21 district. I have read the court decision which 22 clearly interprets the law and says that there 23 is protection under the current law and that 8059 1 it's subject -- these lodging and EROs are 2 subject to rent stabilization and rent control 3 protections. So on the law I understand and I'm 4 glad Senator Hannon said it's not that we're 5 clarifying the law. He seeks to change the law, 6 and that makes it either -- even more 7 strengthens the argument that there's a need to 8 continue this protection. 9 The definition -- definition of a 10 lodging house is a room without a kitchen or a 11 bath, and by its very nature, if you look at the 12 inhabitants of these residences, these are the 13 poorest of the poorest people in New York City 14 and many of the people live there for long 15 periods of time and, as Senator Paterson said, 16 the tenant in question who was the subject of 17 this litigation lived in this residence for six 18 years. 19 So we have an appellate term that 20 confirmed the -- the lower court decision. We 21 have an Appellate Division decision, and now it 22 will be before the Court of Appeals. 23 So in terms of good public 8060 1 policy, we need to continue this. There are 2 many poor people that are relying upon this 3 affordable housing as the only housing that's 4 available to them. 5 So for these reasons and to 6 protect a number of my constituents that rely on 7 this housing, I will be opposing this bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would Senator 11 Hannon yield to a question, please? 12 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, the 16 bill refers to a lodging house as defined in 17 Subdivision 14 of Section 4 of the Multiple 18 Dwelling Law. I don't have that readily handy. 19 Could you tell us what that definition is? 20 SENATOR HANNON: No. I don't 21 have it with me. I don't have that definition 22 with me. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, the 8061 1 reason I had asked the question is because I'm 2 concerned in a couple of areas. 3 For instance, in an SRO that 4 we've talked about here, if an owner of a small 5 SRO would set up a common eating area or a 6 living -- or a lounge area, could that fall into 7 the definition of a lodging house which 8 basically, you know -- generally I assume to be 9 a place where you have a room and no -- no other 10 accommodations and everything else is common, 11 bathrooms, and so on. 12 So what I'm asking you is could 13 an SRO under certain modified circumstances fall 14 under this definition and then, therefore, be 15 excluded from the protection of the Emergency 16 Tenant Act? 17 SENATOR HANNON: No. I don't 18 think you can do it by change -- we can't change 19 that definition. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: But you see, 21 Senator - 22 SENATOR HANNON: Do I have -- I 23 don't have the statute. 8062 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- the problem 2 is we don't know what the definition is. 3 SENATOR HANNON: No one had 4 brought -- the bill has been in March -- I'm 5 sorry -- May 21st. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: I realize that. 7 SENATOR HANNON: I have no memos 8 against this. Nobody has asked any questions. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, 10 sometimes - 11 SENATOR HANNON: You know, if 12 anybody would like to ask questions, I'll ask 13 the bill be laid aside. I'll deal with these 14 technical areas. If you want to deal with it, 15 fine. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: There's one 17 other area, Senator. Believe me, I was unaware 18 of the bill. 19 SENATOR HANNON: Could we lay the 20 bill aside, Mr. President? 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Could I ask one 22 other question so that when you're doing that 23 research, you can look that up too. 8063 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Hannon, do you yield? 3 SENATOR HANNON: No. It's in the 4 -- it's over in my office. The whole file is 5 over there. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. I said 7 when you're looking. If the Senator would just 8 allow me to finish that one thought, a very 9 simple one. 10 We have supervised living 11 arrangements for mentally ill and retarded in 12 apartments and other facilities that, again, 13 based on what you determined to be the precise 14 definition, could generally perhaps fall into 15 this category as a lodging house. So when 16 you're doing that review, I would appreciate it 17 if you would clarify that as well. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Hannon, was it your wish to lay the bill aside? 21 (Senator Hannon nods head.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 23 Number 1496 will be laid aside. 8064 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 call up Calendar Number 1523 by Senator Hoblock. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1523. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1523, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 8 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 10968, an act 9 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the 10 payment of wages. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Hoblock, an explanation of Calendar Number 1523 16 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 17 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President, 18 this bill changes the definition of the term 19 "employer" and also ensures prompt payment by 20 that new definition of "employer" which includes 21 the agencies and appointing authorities in the 22 state of New York. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8065 1 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: We've served 6 an amendment which I believe is at the desk, and 7 at this time I'd like to ask you to call it up. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Leichter, thank you for allowing the 10 interruption. We were just clarifying whether 11 or not we received it and we just received it, 12 so we wanted to see what the amendment said. It 13 would be most appreciated by those people at the 14 desk, including myself, because there are 15 certain rulings I might have to make on any kind 16 of amendment that you get that to us, any 17 amendment, as soon as you can but, in any case, 18 are you offering the amendment at this time? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I am. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Offering 21 to waive the reading of it and you want an 22 opportunity to explain it? 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I do. 8066 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 2 right. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 amendment is at the desk. The reading of it is 6 waived and you are now afforded the opportunity 7 to explain the amendment, Senator Leichter. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you very 9 much, Mr. President. 10 This is a very simple amendment, 11 but I think a terribly important amendment 12 because this is the minimum wage amendment. 13 Now, previously this session - 14 in fact, just a week ago, we gave you an 15 opportunity to vote for an increase in the 16 minimum wage, but it was part of an omnibus bill 17 and it may well have been that some of you 18 didn't like some of the other sections, so we 19 wanted to give you a chance to vote up or down 20 -- and hopefully up -- a minimum wage 21 amendment. 22 I just want to say very briefly, 23 I think we all know the minimum wage has not 8067 1 been increased for some eight years. The 2 minimum wage, if -- which is still at $4.35, in 3 real dollars -- in real constant dollars is 4 around $2.35. Now, even this Congress, 5 Republican dominated Congress, House of 6 Representatives has just voted an increase in 7 the minimum wage. I believe the increase will 8 go up to $4.75 and by July 1 of next year will 9 go up to $5.15. 10 This amendment provides that an 11 increase of $5.05 will be effective after 12 September 1, 1996 and should there be a federal 13 increase, then we will similarly increase our 14 minimum wage. 15 I just think that it is so 16 important for the economic welfare of this state 17 in fairness to workers who are working at jobs 18 that pay an amount that does not allow them to 19 survive. I think it's so important for those 20 who are saying we've got to get people off 21 welfare and into Workfare to see that people get 22 a decent minimum wage. So I strongly urge 23 everyone to support this. 8068 1 I remember last year, I believe 2 the Majority Leader said we're going to do a 3 minimum wage increase. It's fairness. It's 4 equity. We haven't seen it. Now another 5 legislative session is coming to an end. The 6 Assembly has passed this minimum wage. If we 7 pass this -- we enact this amendment, we can 8 have a minimum wage bill on the Governor's 9 desk. It is fair. It is necessary. It's the 10 right thing to do. I urge that the amendment be 11 adopted. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 question is on the amendment. All those in 14 favor signify by saying aye. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 16 the affirmative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 21 the party line vote. Announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 21, nays 37. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8069 1 amendment is lost. 2 The Secretary will read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 could you call up Calendar Number 1524, by 15 Senator Holland. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read Calendar Number 1524. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1524, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 7731, an 20 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 21 Law, in relation to service retirement benefits 22 and disability benefits. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 8070 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Holland, an explanation to Calendar Number 1524 3 has been asked for. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr. 5 President. This bill amends the Retirement and 6 Social Security Law to allow Rockland County the 7 option of adopting a 20-year retirement plan for 8 the Rockland County District Attorney's Office 9 detectives/investigators, and it has been 10 requested by the county executive as well as the 11 union representing the investigators. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 15 President. If Senator Holland would yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Holland, do you yield? 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, you 19 and I, we had a brief moment to discuss the bill 20 in the back of the chamber and I appreciated you 21 doing that, and as I indicated to you at that 22 time and what I want to ask you about is why a 23 20-year plan? I mean, most other counties have 8071 1 25-year plans. Why should we have a county, 2 Rockland, that has a 20-year plan? 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: The explanation 4 from the investigators in the district 5 attorney's office, Senator, is that some of the 6 people who are already in as investigators are 7 operating under a 20-year retirement program 8 because they have come from other areas that had 9 20-year programs -- retirement programs and 10 they're carrying it with them. 11 There is also a bill in to -- in 12 this house to change the Westchester 13 investigators from a 25-year retirement to a 14 20-year retirement as well. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Leichter, on the bill. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. You 20 know, I -- I think my record here over the years 21 shows my support of public employees, my desire 22 to have a fair pension system, but I just think 23 a 20-year retirement plan for people who will 8072 1 hold these jobs of investigators, and so on, I 2 just don't see that as being justified under any 3 circumstances, and I think it's unwise when 4 neighboring counties have 25 years. I think we 5 really ought to try to establish a uniform 6 standard, and I just want to tell you, you do 7 this one, next year you'll have all the other 8 investigative offices, all the surrounding 9 counties coming forth and saying, Well, give us 10 a 20-year plan just like Rockland County. 11 You know, you talk about local 12 expenses. You talk about the difficulty that 13 localities have in providing services. 14 Certainly, if you have a pension system that is 15 so rich and one that really only requires people 16 to work 20 years before they can retire, 17 particularly in a position of this sort where I 18 don't think is that demanding physically, I just 19 think it's really unjustified, and I'm concerned 20 that you have people who are going to be leaving 21 this sort of government service. They're at the 22 prime of their working years. They'll be in 23 their middle 40s. You can't afford to lose 8073 1 people like that. 2 I am sorry, Senator Holland. I'd 3 like to do it for you. I know you're a birthday 4 boy. I would like to give you this present, but 5 I just think that's unwise. You're being far 6 too generous. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 15 the negatives. Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1524, Senators 18 Leichter and Paterson. Ayes 56, nays 2. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 at this time could you call up Calendar Number 8074 1 1516, by Senator Volker. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 4 1516, by Senator Volker. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1516, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 7659, an 7 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 8 the inclusion of certain offenders in the state 9 DNA. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Volker. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 14 in 1994, after a number of years of working on 15 the DNA data bank, or as it's termed the DNA 16 identification index -- which is really the DNA 17 data bank -- we were able to pass legislation 18 under the then Governor Mario Cuomo, by the way, 19 which established the data bank and established 20 a list of designated offenders who would provide 21 the DNA information that would constitute the 22 data bank. 23 What this bill does -- and this 8075 1 is the first actual expansion of that data 2 bank. Number one, this bill would add attempts 3 to commit the crimes that are already listed in 4 the DNA data bank -- and I won't list all of 5 them. There's the serious offenses, murder, 6 assault and the various offenses where the law 7 already says that blood must be provided to set 8 up the data bank, and that is one of the things 9 -- and that's the expansion where the attempts 10 are included. 11 Probably more importantly, the 12 second section of the bill actually does 13 something that we've talked about, if my 14 recollection is correct, back in the early '90s 15 and into '94, and that is to provide that the 16 failure to provide the required blood sample for 17 DNA analysis would make the person guilty of a 18 Class E felony and subject to the revocation of 19 their probation. 20 The third part of the bill -- and 21 some might say most significant -- says that in 22 addition that the crimes would -- that are 23 designated, those that are mandated to provide 8076 1 blood samples for the DNA data bank would apply 2 to designated offenders, that is, the people who 3 are listed in the -- those that commit the 4 crimes listed in the DNA data bank already that 5 were convicted on or after January 1st, 1996 and 6 it would apply to offenders who are convicted 7 prior to that date are currently on probation, 8 parole or under the custody of the Department of 9 Correctional Services. 10 In other words, what this bill 11 does is to expand the scope of the DNA data bank 12 or DNA -- what do they call it -- DNA 13 identification index as it's formally called and 14 would also provide for a penalty -- a Class E 15 felony penalty, should one of the individuals 16 that is designated herein refuse to comply. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 If Senator Volker would yield 22 for - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would 8077 1 Senator Volker yield? The Senator yields. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 3 actually I think you've outlined the formation 4 of a fine piece of legislation. I just would 5 like to ask you based on recent court cases 6 involving what has happened to the legislation 7 that we put forth under Megan's Law, if this 8 case would have constitutional impact since 9 there's kind of an after the fact and before the 10 fact sort of problem, and the only thing I was 11 going suggest is that since the DNA data bank is 12 actually not punitive in the sense that Megan's 13 Law would be because there's a sort of scarlet 14 letter sort of impact that would accrue to the 15 released felon under Megan's Law, that perhaps 16 we might be able to get around the legal 17 challenge in this case because there is no 18 punitive action that's actually being taken, but 19 my question is how would you respond to the 20 argument that this is no more constitutional 21 than Megan's Law is because of the ex post facto 22 problem? 23 SENATOR VOLKER: I anticipated 8078 1 your thorough staff and your thorough-going 2 operation, and we -- and since my counsel tries 3 to be thorough also, we began the case. We have 4 a federal case here, Lawrence R. Jones versus 5 Edward R. Murray and it specifically, as I 6 understand the point, is a Court of Appeals - 7 federal circuit case that was argued, finally 8 decided in 1992 that stated, as I understand it, 9 that this -- this type of statute is 10 constitutional and that we can do this as long 11 as -- as I understand it, as long as it is 12 reasonably limited, and that's why, by the way, 13 we talk about people who are presently on 14 probation, presently incarcerated, whatever. 15 We're not talking about people who might come 16 back into the system and try to get their blood, 17 and so forth, but these are people that are 18 already in the system. My counsel tells me even 19 further that the Virginia statute that this case 20 involves in actuality talked about all felons, 21 and I think that our -- our statute here doesn't 22 go as far as the federal case indicated that we 23 could go. 8079 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: If the Senator 4 would continue to yield. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Volker, do you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 8 within the limiting -- limitation factors, would 9 -- the fact that an E felony is going to be the 10 penalty for refusal to comply, would that, might 11 that be considered excessive? How does the 12 Virginia statute handle that? Are they exacting 13 the same amount of punishment we are? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: I don't think 15 they got into that in the Virginia statute, 16 Senator. I don't think, though, that -- I think 17 some sort of penalty is required. You're aware, 18 obviously, that you're talking about serious 19 felonies here to start with, and the failure to 20 comply would have to have some sort of 21 substantial penalty because the person is 22 already presumably charged with a very serious 23 crime to start with. 8080 1 I don't believe that a Class E 2 felony would be considered too severe a -- it 3 would seem to me too severe a penalty given the 4 nature of what is occurring here as far as the 5 DNA data bank. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 7 Senator. 8 Would you yield for one last 9 question? 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: How would you 14 distinguish the problem that the drafters of 15 Megan's Law had in court with this particular 16 federal decision that would uphold the ability 17 to pass this law? 18 SENATOR VOLKER: I think the 19 difference is that this is going into a DNA data 20 bank. This is not something that's going to be 21 distributed to the public. Remember, Megan's 22 Law is a -- is a -- is a law that relates to 23 disclosure. The DNA data bank is not a 8081 1 disclosure bank. It's a bank that is retained 2 and I'm sure you remember, Senator, in '94 that 3 we put in some specific prohibitions in there 4 against distributing the information other than 5 for purposes -- other than for criminal 6 purposes, and so forth, criminal justice 7 purposes. In fact, I think we specifically - 8 there's language in there -- there's a penalty 9 in the prior legislation for disclosure. 10 So I think that to me is the 11 prime difference between this DNA data bank 12 legislation or -- as I call it, or the DNA 13 identification index and the Megan's Law issue. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 17 Senator Volker. 18 Mr. President, on the bill. 19 That's pretty much what I thought, that if this 20 legislation withstands any prospective 21 challenge, that it would be that there's a 22 distinct difference in the impact and that this 23 legislation would be not affecting anything that 8082 1 happened prior to the fact because it's 2 basically the same evidence as opposed to the ex 3 post facto problem that exists in the Megan's 4 Law issue. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 6 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 7 (There was no response.) 8 Hearing none, the Secretary will 9 read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 16 the negatives. Announce the results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 18 Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 23 call up Calendar Number 1508, Senate 7627. 8083 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 3 1508. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1508, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 6 7627, an act to amend the Public Authorities 7 Law, in relation to exempting the New York City 8 School Construction Authority from commissioning 9 works of art. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Ex... 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter asked for an explanation? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, he did. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1508, 19 Senate Print 7627, has been asked for by Senator 20 Leichter. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator, 22 this is a bill which would limit the ability of 23 the School Construction Authority to spend money 8084 1 that is supposed to be appropriated to help 2 repair schools and build schools from spending 3 money on artwork which, in some cases, as has 4 been reported recently in the New York Times, 5 has resulted in large sums of money being 6 expended on artwork in our schools when we feel, 7 and I feel, that it would be much better spent 8 putting that into bricks, mortar and repair work 9 in the schools. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 13 President. Senator Velella, you remind me of 14 the Times article. I remember you standing with 15 -- in the picture with it looked like a big 16 grin next to the Governor in front of - 17 SENATOR VELELLA: A picture that 18 looked like what? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: With a big 20 grin. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: A grin. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: You had a big 23 grin in front of a work of art. Some people 8085 1 looked at it and they didn't know -- they didn't 2 know whether you were the work of art or the - 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator - 4 Senator, the best piece of work in the chamber 5 is you. There's no doubt about that. You're a 6 work of art all to yourself, but certainly the 7 grin that I was having was the joy in the 8 Governor and I discovering wasted money in the 9 School Construction Authority that could be 10 better spent to help create a more comfortable 11 educational environment for our young people, 12 and that was what the grin was about. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 14 let me just point out to you that there's a long 15 and rich tradition in New York City and 16 throughout the country that schools are not 17 supposed to look like factories. There are not 18 supposed to be bare walls. The art that you 19 talked about and that the Governor took all the 20 trouble to go down to see and to point out of 21 horrible waste, I believe the expenditure was 22 somewhere much less than $200,000 in the school 23 that probably costs some - 8086 1 SENATOR VELELLA: 187,000. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 3 How much? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: 187,000. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: $187,000. I 6 just think that art ought to be part of schools 7 and, you know, it may -- listen. It made a nice 8 headline and it's always nice to see your 9 picture in the paper, Senator. I certainly 10 enjoyed that, but I question whether, you know, 11 that's the sort of public policy that the 12 Governor and you ought to be spending your time 13 on, and I submit to you that you were wrong 14 then. I submit to you you're wrong with this 15 bill. I think it's a mistake to say that our 16 schools should be bare walled, unattractive 17 places. Nobody's talking of buying Picassos or 18 Monets or Rodins, but I think a little 19 decoration in the schools is appropriate, and I 20 would not support this legislation in spite of 21 its very distinguished backing. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, if I 23 might respond to that. On the bill, Mr. 8087 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Velella, on the bill. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: I guess this 5 best - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me 7 just a minute. 8 Senator Leichter, are you through 9 with the floor? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You yield 12 to Senator Velella? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Velella. 16 SENATOR VELELLA: I think this 17 best exemplifies the difference between Senator 18 Leichter and myself. By no stretch of the 19 imagination are we talking about creating bare 20 walls in schools. $187,000 for a tin arch that 21 has some hangers dangling from it, and that's 22 what we went and seen***, and I invite you to 23 come and see it. It's an outrage when in that 8088 1 same school building, the walls were falling 2 down and some of the facilities weren't up to 3 par. The elevator hasn't worked in that 4 building so that handicapped kids cannot get to 5 classes above the first floor. The principal of 6 that school is pulling her hair out to try and 7 keep the building going and we're spending 8 187,000 on art. 9 Now, we have many foundations in 10 the city of New York that contribute their 11 artwork. As a matter of fact, some of the kids 12 in those schools produce better art than the 13 $187,000 monster that was put on top of the roof 14 that really very few people see. 15 I think it's an outrage that we 16 would spend that kind of money on art when we 17 can put it into bricks and mortar and perhaps 18 that's the difference between your side of the 19 aisle and our side of the aisle. We can do 20 things, make an educationally acceptable 21 environment, a pleasant environment, with 22 reasonable expenditures. Your tendency is to go 23 overboard and spend more. More isn't 8089 1 necessarily better. Some of those artworks, 2 like I said, by the kids hanging on the walls in 3 the school are a hell of a lot better than that 4 $187,000 monster that was created. We want to 5 stop that and put the bricks and mortar and the 6 monies that are available into the schools. If 7 we have enough, great. Let's put it into 8 artwork, but there are foundations to do that. 9 There are people that lend art to schools. 10 Let's utilize those charitable groups that want 11 to do that. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 13 if I could respond to Senator Velella - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- just very 17 briefly. Senator, you know, people differ on 18 aesthetics and what you describe as an arch with 19 hangers coming down from it, you know, some 20 people would say that that is a good urban piece 21 of architecture. I -- I - 22 SENATOR VELELLA: Will the 23 Senator yield to one question? 8090 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: You believe 3 that's worth $187,000 of money that could be 4 spent in schools? 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 6 think that we ought to be providing more money 7 to repair our schools, and I'd like to see your 8 leadership which, frankly, I haven't seen in 9 this -- in this area in trying to provide monies 10 that are desperately needed for the city of New 11 York. 12 You know, you want to talk about 13 putting money into schools. If you would stop 14 voting for budgets that cheat the city of New 15 York, that cheat schools in your district -- and 16 that's the reason that they're lacking in some 17 of the -- some of the basics and have -- and are 18 lacking in the repairs and the maintenance that 19 are needed, Senator, not because of this 20 artwork. Don't put it in this artwork. Don't 21 make it sound as if, Oh, if we didn't have the 22 artwork, all of the schools in the city of New 23 York would be wonderfully maintained and 8091 1 repaired. It's because this legislation, time 2 and time again, cheats the city of New York and 3 you're part of that. Stand up. Fight for your 4 city. Don't take such cheap shots and then come 5 here and say, Oh, you know why there are leaks 6 in those schools? You know why the roof has a 7 leak in it, because they have a piece of art in 8 there. 9 SENATOR VELELLA: On the bill, 10 Mr. President. 11 If it weren't for people like 12 Senator Leichter, who has the audacity to stand 13 up here and try to justify $187,000 for an arch 14 with some hangers on it in our school system, it 15 will make my job easier to sell my colleagues on 16 the fact that New York City prudently uses their 17 money, but as long as they squander it on stupid 18 things like this and you try to justify it, it 19 makes my job very difficult. 20 I don't know of any other schools 21 in the state that spend $187,000 on such an 22 idiotic cause, an arch with hangers dangling 23 from it, but you think that's worth the money. 8092 1 I wouldn't vote to give New York City money for 2 more arches with hangers. You would. I have to 3 convince my colleagues that we spend our money 4 prudently, and you stand up here and try to sell 5 ice in the winter. Ridiculous! 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 10 Velella yield to one question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Velella, do you yield to Senator Gold? 13 The Senator yields. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Can you just give 15 me the address of that school? I'm dying to go 16 down there and see it. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: I will take you 18 down there. There are several other examples of 19 that around. It just didn't hit the New York 20 Times, and that's why, in all seriousness, this 21 is important. Yes, there is a need to have an 22 aesthetically suitable environment for our 23 students; and, yes, if there is money around, we 8093 1 should try to cultivate a better artistic 2 temperament in our schools, but we're fighting 3 for valuable bucks, and it really does injury to 4 the city of New York to see money spent on 5 things like that when there is such a great need 6 to spend the money elsewhere. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 10 President, just to make Senator Velella's job a 11 little bit more difficult still. 12 I want to rise in defense also of 13 the "Art in the School" Program and, moreover, I 14 believe we have a similar program in the state 15 of New York for every facility that is built 16 with state funding, and I think one of the 17 reasons we in this state have chosen to invest 18 in that extremely important part of the state's 19 economy and history and legacy and culture is 20 because it is so important. I think we are 21 probably the center of the arts world in this 22 nation, at least one of the centers if not the 23 epicenter. 8094 1 So, Senator Velella, I think what 2 we've done in terms of creating that program is 3 we've made it possible to bring into school 4 buildings artwork of major artists and/or minor 5 artists for certain people who live in those 6 communities and who represent that important 7 aspect of our state, and certainly, I probably 8 -- there is a lot of different pieces of 9 artwork that I have looked at, and I have been 10 told they are worth a lot of money and, you 11 know, they are very important but to me they 12 don't look like anything. They don't turn me on 13 at all. 14 But, nonetheless, I understand 15 that the appreciation of art is very individual 16 and very different for different ones of us, and 17 I think that the message, it seems to me, that 18 we want to portray to young people is that 19 having an appreciation of art is part of being 20 considered an educated person, an intellectual, 21 if you will, or however you describe it. So we 22 don't want them to grow up feeling that the arts 23 are unimportant and that that part of their 8095 1 development should not be viewed as significant 2 in terms of their academic world, and so I think 3 it is a good thing. 4 I certainly have gone into 5 schools. I know that Boys and Girls High 6 School, for instance, in Brooklyn, there is a 7 display of artwork by major African-American 8 artists, and I appreciate that, and it's very 9 important, I think, for those young people to be 10 exposed to that and to understand the 11 significance of that and the relationship to 12 them, so I support this. 13 And just, finally, on the whole 14 issue, the question of whether or not the 15 elevator works and that we're spending money on 16 the artwork versus the elevator working, I think 17 one has nothing to do with the other. The 18 funding for the artwork does not, in fact, fix 19 the elevator, and we're not talking even -- the 20 amounts are so different. We are talking about 21 the lack of ongoing maintenance. That is a 22 problem, obviously, in New York City schools, 23 and so I wouldn't want to pit the small art 8096 1 program up against the need for a maintenance 2 program, an upgrading program in the school, 3 that requires a very, very different approach 4 and a very different kind of funding and 5 different level of funding, but I certainly 6 wouldn't want to sacrifice the arts program for 7 that. 8 Maybe you don't like the hangers 9 on the arch, but someone views it as artwork. I 10 probably wouldn't like it either. I'm sure I 11 wouldn't like it either, but there it is. It's 12 artwork for someone. 13 And so I just want to say I 14 support it, too, Mr. President, and I hope that 15 Senator Velella would reconsider because I think 16 that he really has taken the opportunity to bash 17 the arts, and we should not be doing that in 18 this Legislature. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Marchi, would - 22 Pardon? 23 SENATOR VELELLA: Does anyone 8097 1 else wish to speak? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 were two other speakers. Senator Marchi had 4 indicated a desire to speak on the bill. 5 Senator Dollinger had indicated a desire to 6 speak on the bill. Senator Waldon had indicated 7 a desire to speak on the bill. 8 Senator Marchi is not in the 9 chamber. The chair now recognizes Senator 10 Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, just one thing to clarify the bill. 13 As I understand it, what this 14 bill says is that the school authority, the 15 construction authority, would not be required to 16 buy art. It could still elect to buy art as 17 part of its determination as to what should be 18 on the walls. But what this says is that any 19 requirement by the local boards or local 20 authorities that there be 3 percent for art, 21 that that requirement would not apply and they 22 could still go out and buy things if they deemed 23 it necessary. Is that what I understand the 8098 1 bill to do? 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 4 Mr. President, with that 5 understanding, I'm going to support the bill 6 because I value public art. Just go out of the 7 chamber, you'll see Grover Cleveland on one 8 wall. Obviously, somebody paid to have that 9 painted. It's now an asset of the state of New 10 York. 11 I don't mind government entities 12 making investments in arts from the WPA, Works 13 Progress Administration, Thomas Benton Hart, all 14 the artists who needed government funding. 15 Government has been buying art since the days of 16 the Romans. I think it's a good idea, and I 17 think this is a very limited bill. It says that 18 any set-aside for art under the current 19 emergency circumstances present in the city of 20 New York would not apply to this Capitol. 21 My hope is that this bill, even 22 if it's passed, will not discontinue forever the 23 practice of buying art. 8099 1 And, finally, Senator Velella, I 2 just have to protest one thing. Senator 3 Leichter is a work of art. He belongs in this 4 chamber, and I certainly don't want anything 5 that's said here to deface this work of art on 6 the Democratic side. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President. 11 I want to support the tack that 12 Senator Montgomery began, and I think what she 13 was really driving at is that in commissioning 14 art from the African-American and the Latino 15 community so that the overwhelming number of 16 black and Latino children who are in our schools 17 today will have an ability to relate to 18 something which looks like or bespeaks their 19 culture, and one of tragedies of our school 20 system and its failure rate is that the children 21 are not truly aware of who they are. We do not 22 have a true curriculum of inclusion. We don't 23 have the kind of courses which are found in the 8100 1 South, where I first went to school and where I 2 went to college temporarily, and so I think 3 anything we can do to promote awareness so that 4 our children will know who they are, where 5 they've come from and where they should be 6 headed, is very vital to the success of the 7 school system. 8 So I don't see this as an 9 appendage or as an unnecessary item. I see 10 having the ability for the school system to 11 commission art, be it sculpture, be it painting 12 in oil or acrylic or water color or whatever, 13 that that ability ensures the ability of our 14 children to be successful as students, and so I 15 applaud that, and I will stand this time with my 16 colleague from the great borough of Brooklyn, 17 Kings County, the Honorable Velmanette 18 Montgomery. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 20 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 21 Senator Marchi, did you wish to 22 speak on the bill? 23 SENATOR MARCHI: I have been 8101 1 moving about a bit, but seemed to be turning 2 around the question whether we like art or don't 3 like art. My father was a Beaux Art graduate, 4 came to this country as a sculptor, so I believe 5 in having art in the schools. 6 The crying circumstances that 7 produced Senator Velella's bill are justified 8 under the circumstances. That art was hanging 9 in a building - was being displayed in a 10 building where other students were getting their 11 classroom instruction in a -- in the rest rooms 12 because the rain was coming into the classrooms. 13 Disastrous situation existing in the maintenance 14 of these buildings. I'm not going to be 15 pointing fingers of blame, but these are sins of 16 omission. 17 We had the scandal with the 18 asbestos, the schools being far behind in the 19 asbestos cleanup when the nonpublic schools, 20 parochial schools existing on charitable 21 contributions, were up-to-date. Circumstances 22 really that were most compelling, jobs that had 23 been done and certification was not obtained for 8102 1 payment, so that the City disbursed funds for 2 work that was accomplished, not that the City 3 felt they had to do it, but they had not had the 4 proper clearances and were not reimbursed. The 5 reimbursement schedules that are permitted under 6 present policy is a disaster for the city of New 7 York. 8 But it's these circumstances that 9 bring a bill like Senator Velella's up. I mean 10 there is no other way of meeting this crisis 11 except meeting it head-on wherever it appears 12 under all and every circumstance. We have a 13 giant problem, and there's nothing that we have 14 done up to now except to identify its nature and 15 also establish the fact that under repayment 16 schedules for work that was done years ago - 17 there's something like a half a billion dollars 18 out, of money that the City should have and 19 simply was not forthcoming because procedures 20 had not been followed. 21 On leasing, there's between 30 22 and $50 million. We held public hearings, and 23 Senator Padavan -- I invited him in on the 8103 1 hearing that we held by the committee. So there 2 are very crying circumstances that are not a 3 matter of punitive measures by the people of the 4 state of New York in making appropriations for 5 the support of government and schools. 6 It's not a matter of anyone who 7 is evil, any particular governor or any 8 particular administration, but there are very, 9 very serious problems; and before we get out of 10 the woods in the public schools of the city of 11 New York, these children are operating under 12 very, very heart-rending circumstances, poorly 13 maintained schools and a situation which is 14 rapidly unraveling. 15 So my heart goes out and my 16 sympathy goes out, even to the board of 17 education because they are trying hard. But 18 believe you me, there is a big problem, and 19 unless we do something a lot of children are 20 going to be hurt in the city of New York and 21 children who deserve a chance, and we're only 22 treating it and addressing it, to some extent, 23 symptomatically at this point, but it is a 8104 1 prelude, I hope -- I hope -- to a real concerted 2 effort to bringing some resolution, and it is 3 not an Upstate/Downstate, Republican/Democratic 4 conflict that is involved here. It's basic 5 considerations going to the operation of the 6 schools of the city of New York and, frankly, we 7 do have what a Board of Regents member, Diane 8 McGivern -- Dr. McGivern has termed as a 9 "debacle". It's a bad thing. 10 I wish some of you had been able 11 to attend the hearing that was held at the 12 Association of the Bar last Thursday. Under the 13 sponsorship of the Association of the Bar, we 14 had people from the Speaker's office, from the 15 Mayor's office, from the Governor's office. We 16 had a representative presentation. 17 But it's a very, very serious 18 problem. Senator Velella is addressing one 19 piece of it and very properly so. It's not 20 because anybody is against art. No, of course 21 not. It's the circumstances under which all of 22 this developed, and we have to get more serious 23 than we have up to now on that problem down 8105 1 there because, believe you me, it's very, very 2 serious. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 6 President. I think it's pretty heart-wrenching 7 when we have to have it pointed out that there 8 is sort of an artistic design that's in a public 9 school where the elevators don't work and where 10 school books are not available and where 11 classrooms are not fit for use by students, and 12 Senator Velella aptly points that out and says 13 that there are some other examples of similar 14 situations that he can cite. 15 What I would just caution is, 16 that while we were limiting the requirement - 17 and I think the requirement may actually be what 18 led to this situation where superfluous amounts 19 of money are being spent for this purpose, and 20 we've got a situation where there becomes an 21 institutionalization or a contract where we are 22 just buying art for large sums of money with no 23 real perusal of their cultural value, we might 8106 1 want to look into that kind of thing. 2 However, what I'm afraid what 3 this -- the message that this bill also might 4 send is that when we are having a problem of a 5 fiscal nature that we then ignore the whole 6 issue of art at all, and I think that this is 7 unfair to many students. Many of them come from 8 poor, impoverished communities. Many of them 9 come from the communities that many of us 10 represent. There is a feeling that the first 11 thing you do in their education is that you 12 start cutting what would be the amenities, what 13 would be the enrichment services, and that is as 14 wrong as taking away books or, in many ways, 15 truncating the facilities that would allow for 16 the major academic areas of education. 17 I once had lunch with the 18 president of the American Museum of Natural 19 History, and they said in archeological study - 20 this is what he pointed out to me that in 21 archeological study, no matter how far they 22 could trace history, even when they found the 23 most primitive knives, there was always some 8107 1 sort of insignia. There was always some sort of 2 artistic identification that went with the 3 artifacts that were discovered, meaning that the 4 enrichment, the value of art and culture in our 5 lives is really as endemic to our lives as it is 6 to education -- as it is to any other form of 7 education or acquiring knowledge in an academic 8 fashion. 9 That's the reason why our 10 chamber, if you look around, has a particular 11 historic and cultural value to it, and there's 12 an artistic value to many of the buildings that 13 house our great agencies and halls of 14 government. This should exist also in our 15 schools. This is something that our children 16 should become familiar with as well, and 17 although the situation that Senator Velella 18 points out is apt, I would caution that what 19 Senator Montgomery and Senator Waldon and 20 others, Senator Leichter, were trying to point 21 out is that if we move totally away from this, 22 we will be denying what may be a subtle but 23 certainly important aspect of our children's 8108 1 education, and we're just not sure exactly where 2 all this is going when we have seen the cut to 3 enrichment programs, the cut to the New York 4 State Council on the Arts, the cuts to education 5 that, unfortunately, on the local level school 6 supervisors had to make those cuts in those 7 areas in order to maintain their budgets. 8 And so, while I think Senator 9 Velella is on the right track, we sort of think 10 this legislation is sending the wrong message. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Marcellino. 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 14 President, on the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Marcellino, on the bill. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I hear the 18 debate going, and I was out of the room for a 19 while, so I apologize if I repeat things that 20 have already been said, but I would be the last 21 one to foster the goal or the aim that we should 22 not teach art in schools, we should not promote 23 the arts in any way, shape or form; however, 8109 1 when money is tight, as it is now at every 2 level, we have to prioritize. We're not 3 suggesting you don't teach art. We're not 4 suggesting that you can't introduce and expose 5 these young people to the fine arts. There are 6 museums. There are means to getting there. 7 There are ways to bring art to the kids without 8 having to buy a print of a picture and place it 9 on the wall or spend hundreds of thousands of 10 dollars on artifacts, when youngsters in those 11 very same schools have no books to take home at 12 night. I know that from personal experience. 13 Their workbooks can only be looked at, can't be 14 written in. Many kids have to use the same book 15 over and over again, and they are a disgrace. 16 They are torn up. They are ruined. They are 17 abused because of use. 18 When the fixtures don't work in 19 the bathrooms, when the plaster falls off the 20 walls, are you going to buy paintings or are you 21 going to buy plaster? What is your priority? 22 Is it safety? When an elevator doesn't work so 23 that handicapped youngsters can't get to class, 8110 1 what is your priority? Another painting? 2 I will be the last one to demean 3 the arts. I have enjoyed them and I have used 4 them and I treasure them like anyone else, and 5 in my spare time you will find me in museums 6 everywhere I go. But there is a priority here 7 that has to be set, and if you were truly 8 interested in the youngsters and their 9 education, then you have to say we must maintain 10 the facility that the youngsters have to go in. 11 They can do their own artwork. 12 There is nothing precluding these youngsters 13 from decorating the walls of their own schools 14 with their own art as is done in many schools 15 now, and that fosters the training of how to 16 become an artist, and it allows the youngsters 17 to express themselves in a positive way within 18 their own school and take pride in the 19 surroundings of their own school. 20 It's well known that when we take 21 graffiti vandals and we give them a place which 22 we say, "This wall is for you, do a design, make 23 it yours," no one is going -- as long as it's 8111 1 not obscene or out of good taste, but "Do your 2 thing," that wall is never touched again. Other 3 graffiti people will never go near it. Why? 4 They respect the fact that someone has given 5 them something. 6 I suggest to you that the schools 7 would be in the same vein. If you allow young 8 artists to work within the schools to display 9 their own artwork, to display what their own 10 talent can produce, you will produce pride in 11 the buildings and pride in the schools. You 12 don't have to spend hundreds of thousands of 13 dollars on copies, because that's all you're 14 getting. 15 Senator Leichter was correct. 16 We're not buying Picasso's originals. We're 17 buying copies. So fine. Let the youngsters do 18 that. Take them to the museums, and let them 19 see the originals. Buy them textbooks, buy them 20 workbooks, buy them pencils, paper. Clean up 21 the building. Make the fixtures work. Make the 22 elevators work. Make the doors safe; make the 23 locks work. Repair the windows that have been 8112 1 broken. Clean up the exterior of the building. 2 Get rid of the graffiti from around the building 3 instead of spending money on a few paintings and 4 a few artifacts. 5 It's a waste. It's a waste when 6 you don't have the extra money. If you have the 7 luxury, that's one thing. If you don't have the 8 luxury, then you do what has to be done to give 9 the basic education and to give the best 10 education possible. If you are concerned for 11 the youngster, you have to set the correct 12 priorities, not some false ideal. 13 I will vote aye on this bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Abate. 16 SENATOR ABATE: Just very 17 briefly. 18 I oppose this bill. And what I 19 have seen over the last decade is a decreasing 20 commitment by government to the arts, and I 21 think we need to be reminded that the arts not 22 only feeds our spirit but also feeds our 23 economy. 8113 1 The proliferation of the arts, 2 whether it's theater or graphic arts or 3 whatever, produces jobs, an economy, makes young 4 people understand the appreciation of the art, 5 makes them expand their horizons to begin to 6 think differently about themselves and the world 7 around them. 8 So we can't even begin to put a 9 dollar on if we put a commitment on the arts in 10 the schools and everything else in the 11 community, we're really creating a better 12 society for our young people. 13 And I just want to end by saying 14 this is how little the commitment that we give 15 to the arts in the United States. Per capita, 16 we spend 68 cents per year, Germany spends $27, 17 France spends $32. That shows that we don't do 18 a lot for the arts and we need to do more, and 19 this bill brings us increasingly in the wrong 20 direction. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 22 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 23 Senator Montgomery. 8114 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 2 President, I just wanted to ask Senator Maziarz 3 if he would yield for a question, clarification 4 or -- or Marcellino. I'm sorry. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Marcellino, do you yield to - 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We look so 8 much alike. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm sorry. 10 No, you don't look like Senator Maziarz. 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I will, 12 Senator, any time. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Marcellino yields. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 16 Marcellino, you seem to imply that we should be 17 including the graffiti artist and their work as 18 legitimate artwork with the schools -- I don't 19 want to misinterpret you -- which I may agree 20 with, by the way. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, no. 22 Graffiti vandalism is not something I promote at 23 all at any level in any way; however, to a 8115 1 certain extent, one has to be open-minded with 2 respect to art because, today, one person's 3 graffiti is another person's artwork a few years 4 later. Art is what is in the eye of the 5 beholder, so to speak. 6 So, in that sense, no. If it's a 7 vandalism type of thing and a destructive type 8 of thing, no, but you can venue that and you can 9 turn it into a positive in the schools and not 10 have to waste money on copies. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 12 I just wanted to clarify that, because I thought 13 I heard him say that graffiti artwork could be 14 part of the school and legitimate artwork. I 15 think that's a good idea, but I understand your 16 clarification in terms of the vandalism issue. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 8116 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 Record the negatives. 3 The Chair recognizes Senator 4 Leichter to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 6 I am really disappointed and disheartened that 7 Senator Marchi, who really embodies the glories 8 of the Italian Renaissance Civilization, where 9 not any work of -- a public work was put up 10 without having great art in it. All we're 11 saying is that a minute amount of money ought to 12 be spent -- ought to be spent, Senator 13 Dollinger, not at the whim of some bureaucrat 14 but ought to be spent, because, yes, art has a 15 priority. 16 And, Senator Marcellino, you want 17 to put up a first kindergarten drawing instead 18 of having copies of a picture of George 19 Washington and Abraham Lincoln? I disagree with 20 you. 21 But the main point here is it's 22 not a choice of whether we're going to have 23 functioning elevators, roofs that don't leak, 8117 1 plaster that doesn't fall off the wall because 2 we're spending money on the arts, and that's 3 where I say to Senator Velella, you may not know 4 art but you are certainly artful because you are 5 hiding and obscuring the issue, which is that 6 we're badly, significantly, substantially under 7 funding the schools of New York and the needs 8 that they have to be repaired, to be 9 maintained. 10 We are talking of billions of 11 dollars that are needed for that purpose, and 12 you make it appear as if we spent a couple of 13 hundred thousand dollars less on art, that all 14 of these problems are going to disappear. No, 15 you are just making the schools cheaper. You 16 are going to make the schools function less well 17 because there's going to be less beauty, less 18 attractiveness in the schools. That is a 19 priority, too. 20 Mr. President, I vote in the 21 negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 8118 1 Senator Velella to explain his 2 vote. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 4 I just want to say to Senator Leichter that if 5 anybody is trying to hide the issue it's Senator 6 Leichter. What I have said here today is that 7 when we spend $187,000 on so-called art, an 8 archway with a couple of hangers dangling from 9 it, I don't think that appeals to anybody I 10 know's cultural sensitivities. I don't know 11 anybody in that school -- I spoke to the 12 parents, with the Governor, who didn't say, Take 13 the arch down and give us some new textbooks and 14 a couple of computers, and they were black and 15 they were Hispanic, and they said, "That thing 16 is a monstrosity," and it is. It's about 17 spending the money wisely, and when you stand 18 up, Senator, as a New York City Senator and say, 19 "This is how we choose to spend money in our 20 school system," it makes our job that much 21 tougher because we're wasting money and you're 22 trying to justify it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8119 1 Velella will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 Senator Gold to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 4 can cut some time down because I would indicate 5 if I had more time, I'd say exactly what Senator 6 Leichter said, so I can start from there. 7 The other thing which I think is 8 interesting -- I guess, Senator Velella, you and 9 I are on the same team in that, if Rockefeller 10 didn't waste money for all the junk that's down 11 in that mallway, we'd have an extra elevator in 12 the LOB. I think you should make public your 13 letter to the Vatican, when you wrote that 14 letter that they should have given Michelangelo 15 a can of paint and a roller and saved some time 16 and money. 17 The answer is that there is a 18 difference between the words "spend" and 19 "waste". Senator Leichter has never suggested 20 waste. That doesn't mean that if you take one 21 situation that Senator Velella doesn't like that 22 that means you end spending in this situation. 23 Having said that, again, I want 8120 1 to adopt Senator Leichter's logic and his 2 English, and I vote no. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 5 Announce the negatives and the 6 results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 1508 are 9 Senators Abate, Connor, Espada, Gold, Kruger. 10 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Paterson and 11 Waldon. Ayes 48, nays 10. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 would you please have Calendar Number 1526, by 17 Senator Hannon read at this time. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title to Calendar Number 1526. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1526, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 7764, an 22 act to amend the Public Health Law, the 23 Insurance Law, Chapter 703 of the Laws of 1988, 8121 1 relating to enacting the Expanded Health Care 2 Coverage Act of 1988. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're on 4 Calendar Number 1526. 5 Senator Hannon, an explanation of 6 Calendar Number 1526 has been asked for by 7 Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR HANNON: This is the bill 9 that will implement a new health care financing 10 system for hospitals beginning on January 1, 11 1997. The current system expires as of July 1 12 of this year. The current system is a system 13 which has two major elements. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Hannon, excuse me just a minute. Let's see if 16 we can get Senator Leichter in his seat and 17 Senator Velella in his seat. It's a very 18 important bill to a lot of people in this 19 state. Let's see if we can get some order in 20 the house. I ask the staff members to take 21 their seats. Members to take their seats. 22 I think we're ready now, Senator 23 Hannon. 8122 1 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you very 2 much, Mr. President. I appreciate that, so that 3 those folks who want to listen can. 4 The current system of health care 5 financing, known as NYPHRM V, expires at the end 6 of this month, in June of 1996. This bill would 7 replace that with a system of negotiated rates 8 for inpatient hospital services. The negotiated 9 rates would, for those portions affected, take 10 effect January 1, 1997. 11 The current NYPHRM system has two 12 major components. One is where every procedure 13 of every hospital, except for those covered by 14 HMOs, is subject to a fixed rate determined by 15 the state or determined by the federal 16 government, Medicare, federal Medicare payors. 17 This has been the way in terms of fixed rates 18 for almost 30 years. This state is the last of 19 two states that has such a fixed rate method 20 setting. Forty-eight other states have 21 negotiations that go on. We, in terms of our 22 HMOs, have negotiations that go on. We would 23 propose to move into that current system. 8123 1 In addition to the fixed rate 2 system, the state levies certain surcharges and 3 allowances now upon those rates for hospital 4 inpatient services and uses the money that is 5 resulting for various purposes, generically 6 called in the health care field "public goods." 7 A major amount of money goes into 8 what is called graduate medical education. 9 The next major amount of money 10 goes into what is called the bad debt and 11 charity pool, to pay for services rendered by 12 hospitals for which they are not reimbursed. 13 In addition, there are several 14 other programs that are financed, including the 15 Child Health Insurance Program, various rural 16 health grants, public health programs, EMS, et 17 cetera. 18 Under the system that we would 19 propose, we would finance many of those same 20 items by virtue of additions to the negotiated 21 rates so that we could continue to have a system 22 of bad debt and charity care, a system of 23 graduate medical education, in addition to many 8124 1 of the other worthwhile programs. 2 Under our proposal, we continue 3 the Child Health Insurance Program and expand 4 the eligibility up to 18 years of age. That was 5 something that was also done by the Governor in 6 his proposal. In addition to that, we would 7 expand the Child Health Insurance Program to 8 include vision care and dental services. 9 What we have had to do is steer a 10 very difficult course legally, a difficult 11 course that the federal government has erected 12 in regard to the statutes which guide what we 13 can do in this area. The biggest difficulty, 14 the biggest hurdle, the most difficult one to 15 deal with is called ERISA, the Pension Reform 16 Act of 1974, which said to the states that when 17 it comes to the self-insured employer that you 18 may not regulate, States, anything in regard to 19 employee benefit plans, and that specifically 20 means health care, and hundreds of federal court 21 cases have said, "When you attempt to deal with 22 that, you may not." It is up to the federal 23 government to do that. 8125 1 There is another whole body of 2 law that's called provider tax, all of which 3 arose from the efforts of states to take 4 advantage of the various accounting rules that 5 the Medicare and Medicaid system would allow 6 us. A provider tax was passed in 1992 and has 7 given rise to a big thicket of regulations that 8 whenever we have any type of financing of public 9 goods or charity, how those can be applied, how 10 they have to be uniform throughout the state, 11 how they have to be uniform throughout provider 12 classes, et cetera. 13 In addition, we've had to be very 14 wary of what could be done to anybody covered by 15 insurance since 49 other states have retaliatory 16 taxes, and if we were to be seen as imposing any 17 type of tax on an insurance company that's 18 domesticated in another state, one that would be 19 foreign in this state, then the laws of the 20 state in which they are domesticated triggers 21 off retaliation against insurance companies and 22 their premiums that are domesticated in this 23 state. 8126 1 Through those thickets of laws, 2 we have had to erect a system that we think does 3 the best for the health care of New Yorkers. 4 One other guiding principle has 5 been to try to make sure that the money that is 6 raised for graduate medical education is kept in 7 the same area where that money is spent. Under 8 the current system, about 77, 78 percent of the 9 money for graduate medical education is raised 10 in the city of New York and under the current 11 system, 77 or 78 percent of the money is spent 12 in the city of New York. We would believe that 13 under what we are proposing -- and we have 14 looked at it as best possible -- that the money 15 that is spent upstate stays upstate; that the 16 money that is spent downstate is spent 17 downstate, so that we do not have the argument 18 which has been felt very deeply and even more so 19 in this field than in many others that one part 20 of the state is subsidizing the other part of 21 the state. 22 One must say that one of biggest 23 questions that comes up is, well, if you are 8127 1 moving to negotiated rates, won't this be a very 2 sudden shock to the system? Won't there be a 3 big change? Is six months from July 1 of 1996 4 to January 1 of 1997 enough time? We must look 5 at what are the financing flow to the 6 hospitals. 7 Right now, the average hospital 8 in New York State gets 37 percent of its revenue 9 from Medicare, the federal medical program. We 10 continue that. If we wanted to, we couldn't 11 affect it; it's a federal program for people 12 covered by Medicare. So that 37 percent of the 13 average hospital's revenues continue under that 14 Medicare system. 15 In addition, the average hospital 16 in New York gets about 25 percent of its revenue 17 from the state Medicaid program. We would 18 continue those monies from Medicaid until April 19 1, 1997. And by the way, we would also put 20 Workers' Comp and no-fault into that 1997 21 beginning, but that's a very small one or two 22 percentage points. 23 So the remaining third, roughly, 8128 1 would be subject to the negotiated rates, but I 2 would then point out that since HMOs are the 3 only entity right now that can negotiate their 4 rates, that they are part of that remaining 5 third. My guess is 10 percent, 20 percent - 6 one doesn't know -- already have negotiated 7 rates. 8 So we believe that we have given 9 a very good transition to the hospital community 10 in order to go from the current "We know 11 everything, government is best, we shall control 12 you from beginning to end" system into a 13 negotiated rate system. 14 In addition, by the way, we do 15 broaden the procedures for which the allowances 16 and add-ons are imposed. The current system 17 says it's only for inpatient hospital 18 procedures. The Governor's bill broadened that 19 to the outpatient facilities of hospitals, and 20 we would broaden it to also include the 21 comprehensive diagnostic and treatment centers 22 and freestanding ambulatory clinics and 23 freestanding laboratories. 8129 1 One of the things the Governor 2 had done was to impose the add-ons to the public 3 goods directly onto the hospitals. We have put 4 a procedure in that I think will result in the 5 impositions being made onto pools, creating 6 pools as the counting devices, and putting 7 incentives into statute so that anybody paying 8 for health care would pay the add-on money 9 directly into the pools, not going through the 10 hospitals. 11 One of the things we had found in 12 the Governor's bill was the ability of the local 13 government of the city of New York to impose 14 additional add-ons for procedures done in the 15 city of New York, and that money would have gone 16 as additional money for graduate medical 17 education. The City had problems with that, 18 probably very understandably, in terms of us 19 dictating where the money would go and they 20 having to do the optional work. 21 When the Assembly came out with 22 its concept paper -- it hasn't yet ever come out 23 with a bill -- in that concept paper, there was 8130 1 a thought that you could put the add-on in in 2 regard to how many individuals are covered by 3 health plans, and we thought there were some 4 difficulties with that under the federal 5 statutes, but that was a very workable solution 6 to use in lieu of the local City tax, and so 7 that is into the bill, and we continue to raise 8 as additional monies for graduate education in 9 New York City, $350 million. 10 We have, in the course of doing 11 this bill, also added in a provision for the 12 continuation of the excess medical malpractice 13 program, something that we felt was a worthwhile 14 thing for the medical profession and actually 15 giving greater assurance of continuity of care 16 for New Yorkers. We put in for a slimmed down 17 certificate of need process. The process now, 18 where every -- basically almost all health 19 facilities have to go through in terms of lots 20 of paperwork, lots of proof, lots of 21 applications, lots of procedures, we tried to 22 slim that down so the procedures would only be 23 applicable to those types of medical instances 8131 1 that depend on quality, where quality has to be 2 part of the review, such as open heart surgery, 3 where a hospital offering such a procedure ought 4 to be doing about 500 of those procedures a year 5 in order to have the volume and skills necessary 6 to assure a certain amount of quality 7 operations. 8 I would think, Mr. President, 9 that's a good overview of what we have tried to 10 do, and if there are any questions - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator 14 Dollinger, I know, has a lot, but one very brief 15 short question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 17 yield, Senator Dollinger, to Senator Gold's 18 question? 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Hannon, do you yield to a question from Senator 22 Gold? 23 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 8132 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. Senator, you 5 were very kind before the debate started to give 6 me a copy of your memo. Is there a memo from 7 the City of New York on this bill? 8 SENATOR HANNON: I have not 9 received a memo from the City of New York. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Amazing. Thank 11 you very much. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just on the 15 bill, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Dollinger, on the bill. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have to 19 commend the chairman of the Senate Health 20 Committee and his staff. I think no one in the 21 state has perhaps worked as hard as Senator 22 Hannon has at a job that I would describe, 23 frankly, as a juggler. There are so many balls 8133 1 involved in the health care system of the State 2 of New York that his hands have been working 3 like mad to keep all those balls up in the air 4 and at the same time keep it moving as we move 5 to this notion of a competitive health care 6 system in New York State. 7 For reasons that I'm going to 8 describe, I perhaps think some of those balls 9 may have slipped out of his hands, but I look at 10 this as a first attempt to try to figure out how 11 we're going to juggle the future, and what I 12 hope we can do today is perhaps suggest a couple 13 ways that some other things -- some other balls 14 that have to be picked up off the floor and put 15 back in the process before we can finally figure 16 out how to finish this juggling exercise and get 17 to a system that will achieve a better health 18 care system for people in New York, and it seems 19 to me that's the fundamental question that, in 20 considering this bill, everyone should ask. 21 Do we end up with a better health 22 care system that will improve the health care of 23 New Yorkers? A recent study published suggested 8134 1 that New York, based on a whole series of public 2 health criteria, actually ranked number 32 in 3 the nation in health care, and it seems to me 4 that in the progress toward a competitive 5 system, the fundamental values-based question 6 that we should all ask is, When we get finished 7 with this process, as we must before the 30th of 8 June, do we end up with a system that provides 9 better health for New Yorkers? Because if it 10 doesn't, then it suggests to me that we have to 11 go back and figure out, how do we get to that 12 goal and how do we change this plan or any plan 13 that might emerge from discussions with the 14 Assembly and the Governor to achieve that 15 fundamental value-based goal. 16 First of all, let me tell you 17 what I think is good in this bill, and there are 18 many good things in it. 19 Child Health Plus increasing it 20 to age 18, expanding it to include dental and 21 vision services. Good idea. I don't 22 particularly have any opposition to the notion 23 of a $2 co-pay. I think that's a very good 8135 1 idea. 2 Increasing the assistance to 3 small businesses to buy health insurance for 4 their employees if the health**** of the 5 employees are within 200 percent of the federal 6 poverty limit. I think that's a good idea. It 7 encourages small businesses to have health 8 insurance plans, a good thing for everyone. 9 With the emergence of more small businesses in 10 this state, that's a good idea. 11 The increases of the individual 12 insurance vouchers, another good idea as we try 13 to expand the notion of assisting people and, 14 instead of being uninsured, to assist them in 15 getting health insurance. 16 The extension of the medical 17 malpractice indemnification. That program, it 18 seems to me, is one that has worked very well in 19 this state to establish the cap. We've had very 20 few claims against it. The extension of the 21 medical malpractice is another good idea. 22 From my perspective from 23 Rochester, New York, the concept of regional 8136 1 pools is also an idea that I particularly find a 2 good one because I think it gives communities 3 that have worked hard, as Rochester has, in 4 trying to set up a managed care system -- we 5 have about 95 percent of our population insured; 6 we have about 44 percent of our Medicaid 7 population in managed care. My community, with 8 the guidance of Eastman Kodak Company and other 9 industries, worked very hard to solve the 10 problem of health care and provide quality care 11 in the Rochester area community. The regional 12 pool concept, I believe, advances that interest 13 and gives to our community not only an incentive 14 to further hone the delivery of services there 15 but, frankly, puts us in a posture where we are 16 taking responsibility for our community. From 17 my perspective, that, too, is a good idea. 18 I also like the idea that's 19 mentioned in this bill about allowing the 20 Commissioner of Health to accept regional 21 proposals and how to deal with the problem of 22 bad debt and charity care and graduate medical 23 education. The Rochester community has been 8137 1 planning for this for several years and is well 2 down that road and I hope will be the very first 3 community to make a proposal to the Health 4 Commissioner under that. 5 I also think that the idea of the 6 private sponsor in integrated health insurance 7 networks is also an idea whose time has come. 8 So there are seven or eight 9 things, seven or eight of those balls that I see 10 flying through the air in the discussion of this 11 end of NYPHRM. For me, all have pluses attached 12 to them. 13 There are other minuses, however, 14 balls that are also circulating, some of which 15 are the flip side of what I just mentioned. One 16 is, I think, in the subsidization of small 17 businesses and individuals, there just is not 18 enough money generated to make them work. The 19 $6 million that is the scoring for this proposal 20 for individual insurance vouchers is just not 21 enough. If it could insure 4,000, 6,000, 8,000 22 people, I suggest that that is merely a drop in 23 the bucket. With three million uninsured people 8138 1 in this state, insuring 6,000 of them or even 2 10,000 of them or even 20,000 of them is trying 3 to stop the Hudson River with a straw. If we 4 want to build a dam, if we want to end the 5 rising tide of uninsured in this state, which, 6 as we all know, creates a greater public expense 7 because it's going to draw down our dollars in 8 the bad debt and charity care pool and put 9 greater pressure on our Medicaid system, it 10 seems to me we have to be willing to commit 11 additional resources to do that. 12 I also believe that this 13 proposal, at least as I've seen it scored 14 through staff, is that the graduate medical 15 education is simply not fully funded and that 16 that will result in a very significant cutback 17 of graduate medical education. The City of New 18 York is the major center for graduate medical 19 education, but there are other institutions such 20 as Strong Memorial Hospital in the 54th Senate 21 District which depends on money from the 22 graduate medical education pools. We currently 23 have about $3 billion that goes to graduate 8139 1 medical education of which about a billion or so 2 is a contribution from the federal government 3 through the Medicare system. This bill, I don't 4 believe, will generate the additional $2 billion 5 to fully fund graduate medical education. 6 In addition, I'm concerned about 7 graduate medical education because I believe, 8 based on what I've heard in the discussions 9 about the future of graduate medical education, 10 we should take this opportunity to retool the 11 system of graduate medical education, to take 12 the large number of specialists which have been 13 trained in the past to move and give greater 14 incentives to push the residents and the interns 15 who are getting graduate medical education to 16 push them toward the primary care that we need 17 to make both managed care in the private sector 18 and managed care in Medicaid to continue to grow 19 and thrive in this state. 20 So, we have an opportunity here 21 to restructure graduate medical education, to 22 move it more to primary care. What this bill, 23 at least as I read it, continues to do is to 8140 1 provide less money for graduate medical 2 education but doesn't give the incentives 3 necessary to shift from the old specialist, 4 hospital-based type of education to a primary 5 care-based system in which doctors are going to 6 be out of hospitals performing works in 7 neighborhood clinics, performing work on street 8 corners and providing the true primary care, 9 which I think holds the promise for all of us as 10 reducing care in the long-term. 11 I also believe that this bill 12 will underfinance bad debt and charity care, 13 because it just doesn't seem to me that it's 14 going to generate the -- the -- I don't know 15 what the actual number is -- let me look it up 16 here -- that actually is generated for bad debt 17 and charity care. I just don't think the 18 indigent care pool of $700 million that's 19 anticipated from this bill will not be 20 sufficient to fully fund bad debt and charity 21 care; and, as a consequence, those hospitals and 22 other institutions that need and rely on 23 payments from the bad debt and charity care pool 8141 1 are just not going to have significant funds. 2 What does that mean? In the long 3 run, that means you are going to see hospital 4 closures, particularly in the city of New York, 5 and you are going to see a reduction in 6 availability of health care, which comes back to 7 the fundamental issue I started with. 8 If you believe in the value-based 9 notion of quality health care for all, this bill 10 by not fully funding graduate medical education, 11 by not fully funding bad debt and charity care, 12 will not achieve that goal. 13 I am also concerned about the 14 SLIPA allocation and the financially distressed 15 hospital allocation. At least to the best I can 16 tell, when those systems expire back in December 17 31, I understand this bill to create an 18 extension for three months that will allow them 19 to be funded at a quarter of their prior year's 20 total until April 1, 1997, when they will then 21 be kicked into the budget allocation. They will 22 require a budget allocation for funding. What 23 that does is that takes the problem of those 8142 1 hospitals and pushes it to an annual 2 appropriation for this Legislature. Lord knows, 3 if we don't have enough on the table already in 4 the state budget, if we don't have enough 5 trouble coming to agreement with the state 6 budget for the last three months, we are now 7 going to kick a several-hundred-million-dollar 8 problem into the budget deliberations in which 9 the hospitals, most of them in the city of New 10 York, in the metropolitan area, will be saying, 11 "If we don't get this money in the budget, we 12 are simply going to have to close our doors." 13 In closing, it seems to me that 14 this bill and the approach to health care in 15 this state is being driven by two notions -- two 16 notions -- important notions but two notions 17 which, in themselves, compete against one 18 another. One is the concept of competition and 19 the notion that by allowing competition into our 20 health care delivery system, we will achieve 21 lower cost. Senator Hannon talked about the 22 fact that for the last 13 years we have had a 23 state-regulated hospital reimbursement system. 8143 1 Our health care system has been grown up based 2 on the incentives or the disincentives created 3 in that system. So I think we all agree with 4 the notion of less regulation and more 5 competition. 6 But the other problem with all of 7 this is that this bill suggests that one of the 8 driving forces to get us to that system is the 9 notion of significant savings to the government 10 as one of the payors in that system, and it 11 seems to me that by appropriating less money for 12 graduate medical education, less money for bad 13 debt and charity care, not fully funding the 14 individual vouchers, not setting up standards 15 for the individual vouchers, what we're, in 16 essence, doing is we're creating a competitive 17 new model, but we're trying to achieve enormous 18 savings that will only deprive New Yorkers of 19 health care, and that the health of New Yorkers 20 will actually decline. 21 The notion that we put less money 22 into the system but that the consequence is we 23 get better care is one part of this debate that 8144 1 I don't believe this bill resolves to my 2 satisfaction. If we're more competitive but 3 we're going to put less money into the system, 4 how can we tell the people we represent 5 throughout this state that the quality of their 6 health, that their individual health, will 7 improve? Will it stay the same? 8 I believe in a reading of this 9 bill that the quality of health care will 10 actually continue to decline, and for those 11 reasons, although I believe there are many good 12 things in this bill -- and I certainly won't 13 criticize Senator Hannon, his staff or anyone on 14 the Republican side, because there are lots of 15 balls and there are choices with each ball as 16 you flip it up in the air and try to keep all 17 those balls in the air, and those are difficult 18 choices. They're complicated choices. They're 19 cost saving choices. They're saving government 20 money, saving private sector money. They are 21 public interest goals. 22 But from my point of view, at 23 this stage in this debate, it's my opinion that 8145 1 the balls that are negatives outweigh those that 2 are positive. Although I understand the need to 3 go forward, I still believe that this bill - 4 those negatives outweigh the positives in this 5 effort and, therefore, I will be voting in the 6 negative, but I understand that at some point we 7 will back here, as negotiations continue, to 8 come up with a resolution of this. 9 And perhaps, although, again, I 10 may not be satisfied with all the balls that are 11 in the air, my hope is that at some point we can 12 come back with a redesigned system in which all 13 the balls are properly aligned. We can continue 14 to juggle this system in the negotiations with 15 the Assembly and we'll get to the right result, 16 which is improved health care for all New 17 Yorkers. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 19 recognizes Senator Abate. 20 SENATOR ABATE: Yes, Mr. 21 President. Would Senator Hannon yield to a 22 question? 23 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Senator. 8146 1 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, I don't 2 pretend to understand the complexities of your 3 legislation, but I have one grave concern that I 4 would like to explore with you, and that's the 5 monies that will be available for uninsured 6 coverage. 7 It's my understanding that under 8 the current system, there is $1.2 billion 9 available for uninsured care and with your 10 proposal that means a reduction of $500 million. 11 SENATOR HANNON: Senator, I'm 12 glad you asked me that question because I see 13 also that Senator Dollinger had pointed that out 14 as one of the balls we had let slip through my 15 fingers. 16 It's not true, the number is 17 simply not that number. Under the current 18 system, we have an expenditure for the indigent 19 care pool of $702 million, and we keep that 20 number intact. There is no diminution of that 21 number. 22 If there is any change, there is 23 in terms of the formula. We do try to change 8147 1 the formula so there is no longer an incentive 2 for accountants to game the system and to take 3 costs in an unrelated part of the hospital and 4 move it into the charity care and, therefore, 5 get more money. But in terms of the absolute 6 dollar amount -- and believe me, I have had to 7 go through the press, and that, and we've had 8 these numbers for months, $702 million. 9 The Governor's program -- someone 10 may be reading it. The Governor's proposal, as 11 I understand it, did have that at a smaller 12 amount. But in order for us to go forward, we 13 took the $163 million, the $163 million that the 14 Governor's proposed budget would have taken from 15 the bad debt and charity care pool and used to 16 pay the State's share of Medicaid. We did not 17 agree on that diversion. We kept that $163 18 million in the bad debt and charity care. 19 SENATOR ABATE: Certainly, all of 20 us in this chamber are at a disadvantage. You 21 are the only expert on this legislation. I 22 applaud you. You are the sponsor of it. But 23 the problem I have is I have received a number 8148 1 of calls from SLIPA hospitals in my district who 2 are concerned because they read the legislation 3 as though the pool will be reduced by $500 4 million, so clearly that has to be clarified. 5 And why I'm so concerned is - 6 SENATOR HANNON: Let me point 7 out, some of them came to me the other day and 8 -- long faces, serious tone, et cetera, and 9 they started to go through it, and I realized - 10 I said to them, "Fifteen months into this job I 11 figured out what your job is." I said, "Your 12 job is to keep driving the numbers up as high as 13 possible," I said, "and our job in the 14 Legislature is to understand that that's your 15 job." 16 We have, because there has been 17 this huge money spigot in Washington called 18 Medicaid, seen the numbers go up under the 19 entitlement program by double digits compounded 20 every year since 1980. You know what? These 21 are very talented folks, and they have devised 22 programs. They have reacted accordingly, and 23 whenever there has been any change where it's 8149 1 been -- under whatever administration where it 2 said, "We ought to slow down," they would come 3 up and they'd run ads, and you can run ads about 4 poor quality care, whether it's a change from 5 one dollar to 90 cents or one dollar to 50 6 cents, and they have done that. 7 So we've encouraged them to do 8 that, and they're going to try to do that, but I 9 would point out to you that we have proposed 10 here a Senate plan to bridge between the 11 Governor and where the Assembly is. It's a 12 bridge that's a moderate course and it moves 13 health care forward in this state, and it's a 14 moderate plan, and I would argue strenuously 15 that we do meet the goal of a better health care 16 system for New York. 17 SENATOR ABATE: Let me preface my 18 next question. When these hospital providers 19 and other health providers called me, I didn't 20 ask for their advocacy. I was trying to 21 separate fact from fiction, and their analysis 22 -- and fiscal officers were looking at this as 23 hard numbers, not in an exaggerated way. But 8150 1 let's say you're right, that it stays within the 2 current levels, there is no reduction in 3 coverage for the uninsured, then how do we deal 4 with the issue of year after year there's an 5 increasing number of people that are uninsured 6 in New York State? 7 And please correct me if I'm 8 wrong. In New York State, the percent of 9 uninsured people, 11.8 percent in 1989 to 16 10 percent in 1994. In 1994 alone, that number 11 grew by 380,000 people. The total number of 12 uninsured people in 1994 were 2.9 million 13 people. New York City has 21 percent. The 14 indication is year after year, the number keeps 15 going up. So are we, in fact, planning for the 16 future when the coverage is static, at best? 17 SENATOR HANNON: Your question is 18 right to the center of the issue. We do have 19 the uninsured numbers going up, and I would 20 contend what has been happening is the major 21 reason why we can not continue the present 22 system, because the present system encourages 23 the people who pay the bill, the businesses, to 8151 1 either cut back sharply or drop insurance 2 coverage for their employees. I would contend 3 that we've allowed the rates to go up, and we 4 move people from within our system to go into - 5 to be self-insured, and if they're self-insured, 6 they either have very minimal coverages or they 7 drop it entirely. 8 So what we have to do is bring 9 ourselves back to a little more of a rational 10 system and to do it within the parameters that 11 we ourselves can grasp, and we're not going to 12 do that -- by the way, what we've also managed 13 to do is to give them a total vehicle. We have 14 a total regulated rate system except for the 15 health maintenance organizations. 16 So who can go into the hospitals 17 and say, "You want more patients? We will give 18 you more patients. P.S., we want a reduction, 19 25 percent from your rates." The hospitals have 20 to take it, and we have too many hospital beds 21 which everyone seems to agree. But if you have 22 an empty hospital bed and someone is coming in 23 and saying, "I will give you at least 75 cents 8152 1 on the dollar," they will usually take it. But 2 that just drives people over to the HMOs, and 3 then the whole system gets whacked out of 4 shape. 5 So we do have these 6 difficulties. If we continue the current 7 system, we make those difficulties much more 8 difficult unless we reshape this. The rest of 9 the nation has gone to this, years ago. 10 The one last thing someone will 11 say will be, "Wait a minute, Hannon. Hospitals 12 will close." And you know that is a very 13 difficult thing for all of us who have to 14 represent areas who have to care about people. 15 I would point out to you, during 16 the life of the NYPHRM system, 40 hospitals have 17 closed. Forty. Just having this totally 18 regulated system doesn't save us from closures. 19 Last week, we read that in the middle of 20 Brooklyn, Interfaith is in deep financial 21 trouble, not to mention some of the other 22 institutions close by to it, all with hundreds 23 of beds. 8153 1 This morning, we can read in the 2 New York Times that Mount Sinai, NYU medical 3 schools and hospitals will be merging. There is 4 consolidation taking place. This is all with 5 the current NYPHRM system going on. 6 So will there be changes in the 7 future? I can guarantee you there will be 8 changes in the future. I can also guarantee 9 that unless we make these changes now, the 10 changes in the future will be worse than they 11 would be with this -- with what we're proposing 12 to do. 13 SENATOR ABATE: Mr. President, 14 would Senator Hannon yield to another question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hannon, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR ABATE: While we're in 22 total agreement that the current system cannot 23 remain in place, there needs to be a change, we 8154 1 have to take a fresh look at how we reimburse 2 and create enough pools for the underserved. My 3 concern is your approach. Is it, in fact, going 4 to create even greater problems than exist 5 today? 6 My question is, what in this 7 proposal -- many of us have districts where 8 there are large numbers of financially 9 distressed hospitals and SLIPA hospitals. 10 SENATOR HANNON: Excuse me, I 11 didn't hear the last part of your sentence. My 12 apologies. 13 SENATOR ABATE: Do you want me to 14 repeat the entirety of the question? I think 15 you heard that we don't disagree in terms of 16 need for reform. It's a question of what 17 approach is going to be successful. 18 My concern is, will this plan 19 have a disproportionate negative impact on the 20 districts that have a large number of SLIPA and 21 financially distressed hospitals? And I'm 22 talking about what the impact will be on the 23 businesses, on the workers in those districts, 8155 1 on rich, middle income and poor people if, in 2 fact, those hospitals do not have a sufficient 3 amount of money to cover their uninsured 4 patients. 5 And I'm even more concerned 6 because it's now going to be done regionally. 7 If it's done regionally, it has some benefits 8 and it also has some detriments. In those 9 regions throughout the state -- and I think 10 probably throughout the state, everyone has a 11 region in their area where there is an 12 inordinate number of SLIPA or distressed 13 hospitals. How will this plan improve their 14 financial viability? 15 SENATOR HANNON: We have spent an 16 enormous amount of money on a small amount of 17 hospitals. I actually think what will happen 18 for some of the distressed hospitals is they 19 will do quite well. They are the ones we've 20 rebuilt. They are the ones we have made to be 21 quality standards in those neighborhoods. They 22 are the ones people drive miles and miles to go 23 to. I think they are the ones that will 8156 1 continue and continue to do quite well, because 2 the folks running them are truly dedicated and 3 talented. 4 The SLIPA hospitals, which is 5 simply a category -- it's an extra aid we put in 6 in 1991. They tend to do better when they look 7 at individual numbers under this plan than the 8 current system. 9 We are dealing with the medical 10 care profession. There is no guarantee that you 11 get things under the medical care profession. I 12 wish there were. Every one of us has gone 13 through heart-wrenching sickness in our families 14 and our friends, and we -- all we can do or hope 15 for is the art is going to do it the best 16 possible. I think in looking at the system at 17 home, we have to look at what is going to be the 18 best possible. But can there be guarantees? I 19 don't believe you can have a guarantee. 20 You are going to try to get, as 21 Senator Hannon Dollinger said, to the goal of 22 quality health care for all New Yorkers and 23 what's the best way to do it. What we see now 8157 1 is a system where we are artificially propping 2 up a very narrow area, the hospitals, while 3 throughout this state clinics are being formed, 4 diagnostic centers, freestanding centers, group 5 practices. People are delivering the care in 6 many different ways. They feel it's much more 7 efficient to do that. 8 We are artificially holding that 9 back, and, in fact, this current system makes 10 the HMOs the strongest players and puts the 11 hospitals at a weakness because the hospitals 12 are held and pinned down by the volume that the 13 HMOs bring to them. 14 So we need to have this change. 15 The question is: How soon? How quickly? How 16 gradually? How responsibly? Change will 17 happen. It's going to take -- those people who 18 will call you, they will be concerned. They 19 will be anxious. That's what happens with 20 change. 21 I didn't want to do this. I 22 would rather we be able to continue this plan 23 for years and years and years, but it's not 8158 1 going to happen. We have to build this system 2 that's going to take care of those of us who are 3 going to be 65 in 15 years. That's when the 4 baby boom begins to be 65. Those of us who will 5 need greater and greater health care, 6 statistically that's when you do it, and that's 7 what we're trying to do. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Abate. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 if I can just interrupt. There will be an 14 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 15 332 of the Capitol. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 17 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 18 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 19 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 20 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 21 Senator Abate, hold on just a 22 minute. 23 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Hannon, I 8159 1 do not have any additional questions. I agree 2 that change is imminent. We need to produce 3 some reforms. I disagree, at this point, with 4 the total approach. I think it needs some 5 clarification and strengthening. We need to 6 answer some of these questions. 7 I laud you that we all have the 8 goal that rich, poor, middle class alike, all 9 regions of the state, have to receive quality 10 health care, and that should be our goal. We 11 can never, in any way, undercut that goal. I 12 look forward to the process as this bill is 13 negotiated so some of my concerns are addressed, 14 and I look forward to a time that I can support 15 a NYPHRM bill that addresses the issues that I 16 have raised. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold, excuse me. I have a list going. Senator 20 Espada was ahead of you, but if he wants to 21 yield to you, that's fine. 22 SENATOR GOLD: I only need 90 23 seconds. All right? 8160 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Espada yields to Senator Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. I 4 intend to be very brief. I notice that on 5 today's main calendar and on the Rules first 6 report, there are 75 bills, 75 issues. If you 7 take a look at 1088 on the calendar, you find 8 the only memorandum in either opposition or 9 support or expressing any view from the Office 10 of the Mayor of the city of New York, and that 11 happens to be a memo that's a warmed-over David 12 Dinkins memo. I find it incredible. 13 This bill, which I believe has a 14 huge impact on the city of New York, has no 15 opinion by the Office of the Mayor. I know the 16 mayor is talking about selling off City 17 hospitals, and maybe they've lost their 18 interest. But the people in the city of New 19 York, the people that pay insurance premiums, 20 the employers, and the hospitals themselves in 21 the city of New York trying to operate, trying 22 to make it, have an interest. 23 Senator Hannon has a proposal. 8161 1 It's very implicated. It's very detailed. It 2 may be better than the Governor or worse, better 3 or worse than the Assembly plan. It may be that 4 if this passes today, there is negotiation. If 5 it was up to the Office of the Mayor of the city 6 of New York, it might be that this negotiation 7 would go on with a unanimous vote from the City 8 legislators in favor of this and then to find 9 out later that maybe it hurts the City. I think 10 it's really terrible. 11 The city of New York has real 12 budget problems; and if they don't want to have 13 an office up here that's helpful or that guides 14 us in terms of what is good for our city and our 15 people, maybe we could use that money, Senator 16 Velella, in the schools and not worry so much 17 about the artwork. 18 I'm told, thanks to Senator 19 Dollinger's work, thanks to the staff work of 20 the Minority, and thanks to some others and 21 thanks to a very candid Senator Hannon, that 22 this bill could, in effect, have some dire 23 financial consequences in the city of New York, 8162 1 and I am going to cast my vote today supporting 2 the people in my district and their right to 3 health care at a good price. I will be doing 4 that, no thanks to the Mayor's office. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Espada. 8 SENATOR HANNON: I would like to 9 correct the record, Mr. President. The 10 characterization of my prior remarks by Senator 11 Gold is not correct. I did not say it would 12 have dire consequences for the city of New York, 13 and whatever interpretation he wants to make of 14 it is entirely his. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, if 16 I may. In making my remarks, I was thanking 17 Senator Hannon for his frankness, and for 18 others. The record should be clear. I am not 19 quoting Senator Hannon as saying it would have 20 dire consequences in the city of New York. It 21 is my conclusion after the comments that have 22 been made by the individuals I mentioned. My 23 comments about Senator Hannon were meant to be 8163 1 only complimentary. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Espada. 4 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 This bill will have dire 7 consequences for the city of New York, and if 8 Senator Hannon won't say it, the City should say 9 it. Let me say it on behalf of the 32nd 10 District. 11 But also let me start, because 12 it's amazing. I spent seventeen years in health 13 care, and I can fully appreciate the effort that 14 Senator Hannon has put into his work. With all 15 the diligence and hard work that he has is done 16 over 15 months, I have never heard a theory that 17 has the increase in poverty and medical 18 indigency directly be a byproduct of some 19 Machiavellian plot by back-room accountants in 20 hospitals and employers downsizing the 21 industries that they are involved in all in the 22 name of creating medical indigency to apply for 23 more uncompensated aid that the state would 8164 1 provide. If that be a premise, it really 2 concerns me. 3 Let me just also say that this 4 bill clearly removes the life support system for 5 not only SLIPA hospitals but for other 6 financially distressed hospitals that have only 7 been kept afloat by the aid provided by NYPHRM; 8 and while NYPHRM is too complicated, involves 9 government too much in the affairs in the fiscal 10 and the health care delivery system, not only of 11 hospitals but of other providers, the pace at 12 which these changes are being introduced will 13 bring us to certain bottom lines, certain bottom 14 lines that create far too many casualties, 15 casualties not due to waste but due to the rapid 16 pace of injecting into -- a system that has long 17 been neglected, I agree; a system that has far 18 too much waste, I agree. But to inject it with 19 the kind of therapeutic assistance provided by 20 our sponsor here will really create far too many 21 casualties; and before I come back to the health 22 care casualties, let's talk about the economic 23 displacement. 8165 1 Last year, Senator Hannon -- when 2 we had the budget debate around the Medicaid 3 cuts, the question was asked of him at the time, 4 What kind of economic displacement would take 5 place in a district like mine, in a county like 6 mine, that owes so many of its new jobs to the 7 health care sector, something like 40 percent of 8 the new jobs created in the Bronx? Somehow, the 9 answer came back, Well, the health care industry 10 should not be in place to create employment. It 11 is not a full employment -- a job creation 12 sector, and I responded by saying, "It is 13 neither A or B; it's both." 14 It is health care, the quality of 15 health care, the availability and accessibility 16 of that health care, and a necessary corollary 17 is an analysis of economic displacement, 18 because, without that, we are creating more 19 medical indigency. We're creating more poverty, 20 and those health care institutions at once will 21 die and leave ghost towns and people and 22 casualties behind it. 23 So a complete analysis has to 8166 1 involve the economic displacement to the people 2 that work for these facilities, free of no 3 retraining, free of no other options to go to 4 for employment, if only because of your interest 5 in the economic health care of that community or 6 if only because of your interest in what it 7 would have -- the impact it would have on 8 increased medical indigency and increased need 9 for Medicaid assistance and other entitlements, 10 whatever is left after this budget, if we ever 11 get to that. 12 I thought your side was not about 13 tax increases and, in fact, when we look at your 14 bill and we look at the impact it would have on 15 increased premiums to the people of my district 16 and our City, it does, indeed, impose a health 17 care tax on the working-class and middle-class 18 people of my district of the City, and I would 19 venture to say throughout the state. 20 The issue of regional pools. You 21 know we are one state. We can't Balkanize it 22 along racial lines or along ethnic lines. We 23 shouldn't do it around health care dollars, 8167 1 either. Mayor Giuliani has gone on record, 2 United States Senator Moynihan also. Our City, 3 the Big Apple, puts more money into the state 4 largesse than we get back, period, end of 5 story. We never get back enough, and so to 6 somehow sneak in some system that will 7 Balkanize, that will ration out the health care 8 dollar is irresponsible. It's unfair and it 9 won't work and, again, will result in 10 casualties. I don't say that. The mayor of New 11 York has said that. We don't get enough back. 12 This is one area where we can't 13 be shortchanged. If you want equitable 14 formulas, if you want to be fair, if certain 15 regions aren't getting their fair share, if some 16 regions are ahead of us in terms of cost 17 containment strategies and better delivery 18 systems, hey, we want to learn. Let's learn. 19 We can apply some lessons Downstate that maybe 20 Rochester and other areas have learned, but 21 don't kill us in the process because then we 22 have nothing to learn but our early deaths. 23 No sensitivity to economic 8168 1 displacement. No sensitivity to the health care 2 status of the community. Tell me a model which 3 says we have to start by downsizing. We have to 4 get to the core of the problem by taking money 5 out of the system. I suggest to you that if you 6 start with that premise, you are off base to 7 begin with, because I would suggest to you that 8 we should start with the health care status of a 9 community. That, I think, is in our public 10 interest. What are the resources? What is the 11 health care status of the community? Is it in 12 poor stead? Is it that the health care of the 13 community is suffering for lack of resources, 14 and how do we formulate modalities, approaches, 15 delivery systems that could best use that 16 dollar? This does not accomplish that. 17 Absolutely not. 18 What we're doing is, we're 19 setting up competing forces in areas that need 20 the dollars the most. We are broadening out 21 these eligibility pools for the uncompensated 22 dollar. The hospitals, distressed hospitals, 23 SLIPA hospitals, will die; and now what have we 8169 1 done? 2 So, let's look at where the HIV 3 problem exists. Let's look at where children 4 are not being immunized. Let's look at where 5 there are preventable early deaths, and let's go 6 in there and develop some structures. Let's 7 test out some ideas. 8 Let's not remove these residents 9 from our public hospitals that provide the 10 primary care, that provide the emergency care, 11 the essential care, because there is nowhere 12 else to go, and if you put in systems that will 13 denigrate and hurt the ability of institutions 14 to graduate students, medical residents that not 15 only learn their craft and their trade in these 16 hospitals but also stay there, if you do 17 anything to hurt that, you are giving us a 18 double whammy. You are removing the dollars and 19 you are removing practitioners that will 20 otherwise learn primary care skills and stay in 21 New York State and not only stay -- I say in New 22 York State because 50 percent of them not only 23 learn their craft in New York City but then stay 8170 1 and go on to suburban and rural upstate 2 communities as well. 3 So this is a complex problem. 4 This is a difficult problem, a multi-faceted 5 problem, but certainly cannot -- cannot be 6 resolved with a premise that says poverty, 7 increased cost, medical indigency can be 8 resolved by downsizing, taking out dollars in 9 needy communities, creating massive 10 unemployment, all in the name of arriving at a 11 quick bottom line solution to a problem that is 12 much too complex. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 15 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 16 Senator Hannon to close. 17 SENATOR HANNON: In closing, I 18 just want to, first of all, make a few comments 19 about Senator Espada's comments. 20 Last year, we did have the debate 21 about jobs, and I had made the comment then that 22 one ought not to look at the health care system 23 for jobs. Now, I know it's one of the biggest 8171 1 employers, but you ought not to look at the 2 health care system for jobs because, if you do, 3 what you are going to get as a result of that is 4 a poor health care system. 5 You ought to be looking to the 6 health care system for good health care; and if 7 you look at it for good health care, then the 8 jobs that are created, the jobs that are kept 9 are going to be good solid jobs. They're not 10 going to be make-work jobs. They're not going 11 to be makeup jobs. 12 And the irony, after all of that 13 comment, Senator Espada, is that as a result of 14 last year, when we looked at the numbers going 15 into this year's budget, we did not lose jobs in 16 health care, even though we had affected 17 Medicaid cuts in last year's budget. In fact, 18 the total number of jobs in New York State 19 increased by 1,000. Now, that happens to be far 20 smaller than the prior increases, but as of 21 November '95, there was an increase of 1,000 22 jobs. It absolutely was astounding to different 23 people. 8172 1 What happened to the hospital 2 community? There is a downsizing. But as there 3 is a downsizing there, there is an increase in 4 the other areas. Are we going to have 5 devastation to the neighborhoods? I do not 6 believe so, and I am not separate and apart. We 7 have not Balkanized the state. That is a total 8 miscalculation. That is a total misview of 9 what's happening. The people who might work in 10 hospitals in New York may well live next door to 11 me, and they have. 12 We are not sneaking in some 13 system. There is no way to do that. This has 14 been as a result of a Governor who has taken on 15 a complex issue, identified with it, appointed a 16 task force, something that had been absolutely 17 unprecedented in this state. The task force 18 made a report within time that we could know 19 what they said and deal with it. There was, as 20 a result, a very intense effort by the Executive 21 to come up with a proposal; made a proposal well 22 in time. We've had some other thoughts about 23 it. We are working on that. 8173 1 This has been one of the more 2 publicized changes one could ever think and one 3 of the most debated. 4 And to those of you, by the way, 5 who think you're getting a free ride, the vote 6 against this and you get something better, I've 7 got news for you. Come June 30th, if we don't 8 have an agreement, this is either the bill or no 9 system. So you may not be seeing another bill. 10 This bill works. When we put it 11 out, lots of people came to us, the Hospital 12 Association, different parts of the health care 13 community. They said, We don't like this, we 14 don't like that. Fine. We'll take all the 15 alternatives. We're not wedded to it. Give us 16 something that has four corners to it and 17 works. 18 Lots of people made input, the 19 Hospital Association of Greater New York, the 20 Health Care Association of New York State, all 21 the regional ones, Nassau, the Iroquois one 22 which is Northern New York and Central. We have 23 taken all the best of those things. We have 8174 1 looked at what the Assembly has done. We tried 2 to put it together. 3 We have a system, we think, that 4 has four corners to it and works. We think it 5 meets the needs of what has to be done for the 6 future. It moves things along. We have 7 networks in there which is the way of the 8 future, I think, in terms of delivery of health 9 care. 10 We've tried to be equitable to 11 all parts of the state. We have not penalized 12 any part of the state. We have not imposed any 13 tax. Whatever you are referring to, Senator 14 Espada, you look at the law, all we have done is 15 a continuation of those allowances. That is in 16 the law now. 17 I think we have achieved this. 18 There has been an incredible amount of effort by 19 our finance staff, by our program staff, by our 20 counsel staff, and there has been good will in 21 regard to the information we have gotten from 22 both the Executive and from the Assembly, and so 23 when I say we think this is a good bridge 8175 1 between everything that has gone on, I really am 2 convinced this is a bill everybody ought to 3 support. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 Senator LaValle. 8 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President,, 9 on the bill just for a moment. 10 I would like to rise to 11 congratulate Senator Hannon, staff, who have 12 worked mightily on a bill, and I think if we 13 look at some of the critics who were making 14 comments back in January and February and March, 15 I think they were probably saying that there 16 wouldn't be a bill on this floor for a vote. 17 And I think, Senator Dollinger, 18 Senator Hannon has kept almost all those balls 19 in the air as only an impresario could do. 20 There are always when we -- and I in the last 21 number of months in a related but tangential 22 issue of giving our SUNY hospitals greater 23 flexibility, and there is a bill on the 8176 1 calendar, and at some juncture there will be an 2 agreed-upon bill before us. But with all the 3 changes that are swirling around -- and I'm not 4 sure whether the changes in the marketplace over 5 the last year have driven the NYPHRM bill or 6 whether NYPHRM or the fear of the changes that 7 Senator Hannon has brought before us have pushed 8 things out in the marketplace, but I have some 9 concerns about the SUNY medical schools and SUNY 10 hospitals that are a little different because 11 they do not have the same kind of tools, the 12 same kind of flexibility in how they will deal 13 in the competitive marketplace. 14 And one of the things, of course, 15 is that the people of the state of New York have 16 made an enormous investment in the health 17 science centers, in the medical schools - 18 public medical schools in this state; and so how 19 all this shakes out, I'm not sure, but it is 20 something that we will have to create mechanisms 21 to ensure that we protect those investments of 22 the past, we do not jeopardize them in the 23 future, and that they continue to do the job 8177 1 that people in the past created them for, which 2 was to do research, medical education, and 3 provide health care in the respective regions of 4 the state. 5 I certainly am going to vote for 6 this, but I think as people have already 7 indicated, Senator Hannon, I want to say, again, 8 that you should be congratulated for taking this 9 on, the intellect and the energy that you have 10 demonstrated in moving the process in a proper 11 direction and a right direction. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 15. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 17 call, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 19 five members in the house requesting a slow roll 20 call? 21 There are. A slow roll call has 22 been requested. The Secretary will read the 23 roll slowly. Ring the bells. 8178 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 2 SENATOR ABATE: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Babbush. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Bruno. 8 (There was an affirmative 9 indication.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 11 (There was a negative 12 indication.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 14 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Cook, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR COOK: First, I would 18 like to join with those who have congratulated 19 Senator Hannon on what I and others have thought 20 would be an almost impossible task and, indeed, 21 think he's very skillfully dealt with this issue 22 and all the many facets of it to a point where I 23 am, frankly, amazed at the quality of the 8179 1 product that has come out of it. 2 There is a desire on the part of 3 the public, and that's reflected by people in 4 this chamber, to never want to have any down 5 sides to anything. There is a desire that 6 somehow if we could just go along and never have 7 anything change from what we've known, that it 8 will be wonderful and, when we have legislation 9 on this floor, we want to see things that will 10 preserve the status quo. 11 The status quo doesn't happen. 12 It doesn't exist in life any place. It 13 particularly doesn't exist in the health care 14 system. I think Senator Hannon has very 15 adequately laid that out before us. 16 We have to deal not with so much 17 making the change happen at this point but as 18 channeling as best we can that change which is 19 already inherent in the system and already 20 moving forward, and I think that's what this 21 bill does. 22 And, finally, in casting my 23 affirmative vote, I want to particularly thank 8180 1 Senator Hannon and his staff for their 2 responsiveness on the issues of rural health. 3 We have been working for a good many years in 4 trying to protect and develop that most fragile 5 part of our health care system for the less 6 populated parts of the state, and Senator Hannon 7 has been sensitive to that and helpful in that 8 area, and I want to personally have everyone who 9 lives in rural communities know that this 10 downstater has really listened to us and 11 responded to our needs. 12 And in that, I vote in the 13 affirmative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Cook will be recorded in the affirmative. 16 Continue to call the roll. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 DeFrancisco. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator DiCarlo. 21 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Dollinger. 8181 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, to explain my vote. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Dollinger, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with 6 Senator Cook's conceptualization of nothing will 7 remain the same. I guess I'm an old Heraclitean 8 in that respect. I acknowledge that times 9 change, things change. Hospitals ought to 10 change. Everything ought to change. 11 But before we undertake any 12 change, we ought to examine the risk. We ought 13 to make a calculated risk. The way you best 14 take risk is to make a calculation as to what 15 the consequences of taking a particular action 16 would be. Senator Hannon earlier talked about 17 the task force. The task force happened to meet 18 behind closed doors by the Health Commissioner, 19 a task force that didn't seek public input, and 20 only -- the one comment about this particular 21 plan is that I think many people didn't know all 22 the contours of this plan until Tuesday of this 23 week, barely two days ago, and weren't able to 8182 1 see how all the details of this plan would work 2 out. 3 It's been impossible for me to 4 find out from the hospitals I represent what the 5 effect of this plan would be on them. So when I 6 talk about taking a risk, I would like to know 7 exactly what the people who are going to be 8 affected by my vote think and would like to 9 evaluate how they see this risk that this 10 Legislature, this body, today is asking 11 everybody in this room to take, which is to take 12 the risk that going to the competitive model 13 embodied in this plan will improve health care 14 for New Yorkers. 15 We may get a competitive system, 16 we may get cost savings, but will we end up with 17 better health care for New Yorkers and healthier 18 New Yorkers? My judgment is that taking that 19 risk today, I'm not confident we will get to 20 that goal. For that reason, I'm voting in the 21 negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 8183 1 Continue to call the roll slowly. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 3 SENATOR ESPADA: If I may, 4 please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Espada, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR ESPADA: I, too, agree 8 that there is a need for change. I think there 9 is a need for responsible change. This bill 10 does not go far enough in that regard. There 11 has been a targeting of the health care sector 12 in this state. We understand where that 13 emanates from. It is as responsible an act to 14 do that as it would be for Michigan to target 15 the Motor City or for Texas to target its 16 petroleum industry. 17 We are hitting a real nerve 18 here. We are destroying something that has been 19 very viable. If we don't take care of it, if we 20 don't nurture it, if we're not responsible about 21 what the impact of what our new interventions 22 will be, we will suffer far too many casualties. 23 It is because of all that, Mr. 8184 1 President, that I think this is not timely. 2 This is not complete enough. There will come a 3 time, I think, when we combine the efforts of 4 the Assembly -- of the Senate bill, of the 5 health care advocacy community, where we could 6 have real and responsible change. 7 Thank you so much. 8 I vote no. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Espada will be recorded in the negative. 11 Continue to call the roll slowly. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Goodman. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Hannon. 21 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 23 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 8185 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Holland. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Johnson. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 8 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Lack. 14 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 18 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 20 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 to explain my vote. 8186 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leichter, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't envy 4 Senator Hannon for the job that he has. Trying 5 to come up with a hospital and health care 6 reimbursement system in this state is somewhat 7 like trying to play three-dimensional chess. On 8 the one hand, you have a national government 9 that has failed to come up with a uniform 10 national system which makes it extremely 11 difficult and leaves it for the state of New 12 York to deal with millions of uninsured 13 patients. 14 Secondly, you have a Governor who 15 has his usual simplistic, ideological driven 16 approach, and, of course, Senator Hannon is 17 right that change has to come, but that doesn't 18 mean that this bill embodies the change that is 19 going to be helpful to our health care 20 industry. 21 Let me just say, as somebody who 22 represents two world class hospitals, St. 23 Luke's-Roosevelt and Presbyterian Hospital, 8187 1 these institutions, including under the present 2 system -- NYPHRM was certainly not the salvation 3 for hospitals or patients in this state. It may 4 have been a little bit like the Dutch boy with 5 his finger in the dike, but it certainly was no 6 great solution. But these hospitals, great 7 teaching hospitals, have been driven to the 8 brink of insolvency. These hospitals have taken 9 on the burden of treating a large number of 10 Medicaid patients. They treat uninsured 11 patients. We require them to treat them, but we 12 don't compensate them. 13 And what I'm concerned about is 14 that in Senator Hannon's bill they will receive 15 even less compensation. We have an interest as 16 a state. This is not a local matter. This is 17 not because it's important for Leichter's 18 district or it's important for Manhattan or 19 important for New York City. It's important for 20 the State of New York. These are wonderful 21 hospitals that bring in researchers, bring in 22 doctors, train doctors, treat people. If any of 23 you upstate have need for a heart transplant or 8188 1 difficult surgery, you are probably going to go 2 to go to Presbyterian or St. Luke's-Roosevelt. 3 So we have an interest, even an 4 economic interest, in maintaining these institu 5 tions. The Hannon bill really discriminates 6 against such institutions, discriminates against 7 urban hospitals, makes it more difficult for 8 them. It's not a step forward. It's a step 9 backward. 10 Mr. President, I vote in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 14 Continue to call the roll call 15 slowly. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 17 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Maltese. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Marcellino. 8189 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Markowitz. 6 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 14 SENATOR NANULA: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Nozzolio. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: To explain 23 my vote. 8190 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I agree 4 with the concerns that have been voiced about 5 this bill. However, I know that HANYS is saying 6 that it's a step in the right direction, even 7 though it doesn't go nearly far enough. So I'm 8 going to vote yes and hope that we will continue 9 in the process of bringing more to the table 10 when we sit down and negotiate a single bill 11 between the two houses. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the affirmative. 14 Continue to call the roll slowly. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 17 I rise to explain my vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: I will be 21 voting yes for this bill, but in the process of 22 doing so, let me share a simple fact that I 23 think has been represented here at least once if 8191 1 not twice, that we have sought information from 2 the city of New York - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Padavan, excuse me just a minute. There's a lot 5 of noise in the chamber. I don't know how 6 anybody can hear what you're saying, much less 7 explaining your vote. 8 May we have some quiet in the 9 chamber, please. 10 Thank you. 11 Senator Padavan, to explain his 12 vote. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: We have sought 14 but not yet received input from the city of New 15 York as it relates to certain provisions of this 16 bill, in particular that area dealing with 17 graduate medical education. 18 The city of New York, for very 19 good reasons, has a high percentage statewide 20 for the medical school residency programs, far 21 more than half, and the pool and the sources of 22 funds that are provided for those programs, as 23 represented by Senator Hannon, would not be in 8192 1 jeopardy but we do need the city of New York to 2 review this legislation in detail, because there 3 are sources of funds, including Medicaid here, 4 that do impact or do have some relationship to 5 the City's ability to sustain these institutions 6 and the residency programs that they contain. 7 So I will be voting aye but 8 looking toward additional information in the 9 days ahead. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Padavan will be recorded in the affirmative. 12 Continue to call the roll. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: (Indicating.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson, is that a "No"? 17 (Senator Paterson nods head.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 21 SENATOR RATH: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 8193 1 to explain my vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Saland, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 5 had the opportunity to hear much of the debate, 6 either here or outside off of the box, and I 7 would like to certainly commend Senator Hannon 8 for an extraordinary job of dealing with perhaps 9 an even more extraordinarily difficult issue. 10 The reality is -- and I don't 11 believe it was mentioned during the course of 12 the debate -- if not for this initiative that 13 Senator Hannon has crafted, we really would find 14 ourselves in an extraordinarily threatened 15 position as the entire NYPHRM system is due to 16 sunset on June 30. This is a very constructive 17 means by which to deal with a very, very 18 difficult process, and I commend again Senator 19 Hannon and thank him for bringing this bill to 20 the floor. 21 I vote aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Saland will be recorded in the affirmative. 8194 1 Continue to call the roll. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Santiago. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Seabrook. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Sears. 8 SENATOR SEARS: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 14 SENATOR SMITH: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 16 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Stachowski. 19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Stafford. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Stavisky excused. 8195 1 Senator Trunzo. 2 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 4 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will call the absentees. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 15 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Babbush. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Gonzalez. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Goodman. 8196 1 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Hoffmann. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Libous. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Nozzolio. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Santiago. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Seabrook. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Stafford. 21 (There was no response.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 23 the results. 8197 1 THE SECRETARY: Aye 38, nays 15. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 6 If we can return to reports of standing 7 committees, I believe there is a report of the 8 Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be 9 read. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 12 We will return to reports of 13 standing committees. The Secretary will read 14 the report of the Rules Committee. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 16 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 17 following bills: 18 Senate Print 4708B, by Senator 19 Velella, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in 20 relation to eliminating duplicate affidavits; 21 5133A, by Senator Marcellino, an 22 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 23 Law; 8198 1 5787, by Senator Present, an act 2 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 3 incentive operating aid; 4 6034B, by Senator Skelos, an act 5 to amend the Navigation Law, in relation to 6 personal watercraft; 7 6053A, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 8 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 9 to establishing; 10 6080, by Senator Smith, an act 11 authorizing the city of New York to reconvey its 12 interest in certain real property; 13 6110B, by Senator Hoblock, an act 14 to amend the Education Law and the State Finance 15 Law, in relation to providing; 16 6312, by Senator Farley, an act 17 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 18 providing a waiver; 19 6338A, by Senator Seward, an act 20 to amend the Tax Law, in relation to imposition 21 of sales tax; 22 6491A, by Senator Hannon, an act 23 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 8199 1 Executive Law, in relation to imposing plea 2 bargaining limitations; 3 6528, by Senator Volker, an act 4 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in 5 relation to juries; 6 6712A, by Senator Oppenheimer, an 7 act allowing Leonard J. Rosa and/or Michael W. 8 Siciliano, employed by the Village of Scarsdale; 9 6872, by Senator Velella, an act 10 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to risk 11 based capital; 12 6932, by Senator Libous, an act 13 to amend the County Law, in relation to 14 establishing; 15 7066B, by Senator Velella, an act 16 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 17 provisions; 18 7195A, by Senator Skelos, an act 19 to amend the Private Housing Finance Law, in 20 relation to allowing limited liability 21 companies; 22 7247A, by Senator Saland, an act 23 in relation to authorizing a special district 8200 1 payment; 2 7258A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 3 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law, 4 in relation to participation; 5 7473A, by Senator Stafford, an 6 act in relation to authorizing the village of 7 Whitehall to convey certain land; 8 7507A, by Senator Maltese, an act 9 to amend the Election Law, in relation to party 10 recommendations; 11 7565, by Senator Leibell, an act 12 to repeal Subdivision 30 of Section 3 of the 13 Public Officers Law; 14 7581A, by Senator Velella, an act 15 to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 16 issuance of capital notes; 17 7797, by Senator Onorato, an act 18 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, in 19 relation to fees for referees; 20 And 7841, by the Senate Committee 21 on Rules, an act to amend Chapter 708 of the 22 Laws of 1992; 23 All bills ordered directly for 8201 1 third reading. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 motion is to accept the Rules reports. 4 All those in favor, signify by 5 saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The Rules report is accepted. 10 The desk has been asked by 11 Senator Skelos and by Senator Bruno to inform 12 the members of the anticipated procedure for 13 this evening, just so that you all know and can 14 follow because order is going to certainly 15 dictate how quickly we get through what is 16 coming. 17 You have been distributed a 18 Supplemental Calendar Number 1, which will be 19 the first piece of business, and then you have 20 also or are currently being distributed a 21 Supplemental Calendar 2, which we will also be 22 taking. That's in the process of making and 23 will be placed on your desk shortly, an 8202 1 additional active list which will go back to the 2 original calendar placed on your desk today. 3 So don't send your calendars 4 back. You will need the original calendar that 5 we were dealing with, Supplemental Calendar 6 Number 1, Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 7 The Chair recognizes Senator 8 Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: And we should 10 possibly think about Supplemental Calendar 11 Number 3. 12 So at this time, Mr. President, 13 if we could have a reading of Supplemental 14 Calendar Number 1, noncontroversial. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the noncontroversial part of 17 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. Supplemental 18 Calendar Number 1. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1527. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is high. Lay the bill aside. 8203 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1528, by Senator Kruger, Senate Print 1871, an 3 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 4 relation to definition. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1529, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4309B, an 17 act to amend the New York City Civil Court Act. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1530, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4318, an 23 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 8204 1 reimbursement. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 6 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 7 Assembly Bill Number 6219A and substitute it for 8 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1531. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Substitution is ordered. 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1531, by Member of the Assembly Bragman, 14 Assembly Print 6219A, an act to amend the 15 Education Law, in relation to transportation 16 contracts. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8205 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1532. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is high. Lay the bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1533. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is high. Lay the bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1534, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5242A, an 14 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 15 relation to authorizing any city. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8206 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1535, by Senator Hoffmann, Senate print 5921, an 5 act to legalize, validate, and confirm the 6 establishment of a water district. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1536, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6069. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland 23 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 8207 1 Assembly Bill Number 8884 and substitute it for 2 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1537. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Substitution is ordered. 5 Secretary will read the title. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1537, by Member of the Assembly Colman, Assembly 8 Print 8884, an act to permit the reopening of 9 the optional 20-year retirement plan. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a home rule message at the desk. 12 The Secretary will read the last 13 section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1538, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6186, an 8208 1 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 2 establishment of a fee schedule. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward 7 moves to discharge from the Committee on Local 8 Government Assembly Bill Number 8495A and 9 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 10 Calendar 1539. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Substitution is ordered. 13 Secretary will read the title. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1539, by Member of the Assembly Abbate, Assembly 16 Print 8495A, an act to amend the Real Property 17 Tax Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 8209 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1540, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6504, an 7 act to authorize the village of Washingtonville. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 9 a home rule message at the desk. 10 The Secretary will read the last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1541, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7668, an 22 act to amend the Social Services Law, the Tax 23 Law, the Civil Practice Law and Rules and the 8210 1 Family Court Act. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 5 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano 13 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 14 Assembly Bill Number 10853 and substitute it for 15 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1542. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Substitution is ordered. 18 The Senate bill is high, but the 19 Assembly bill is live. 20 Secretary will read the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1542, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Print 10853, an act to amend the Labor 8211 1 Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1543. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is high. Lay the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1544. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is high. Lay the bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1545, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Print 7739, an act to amend Chapter 892 of the 23 Laws of 1986. 8212 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1546, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 13 Print 7755, an act to authorize the conveyance 14 of a permanent and a temporary easement. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside. 18 Senator Skelos, that completes 19 the noncontroversial reading of Supplemental 20 Calendar Number 1. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 if we can have the controversial reading of 23 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. I believe 8213 1 Senator Velella's bill is the first bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We are on 3 Supplemental Calendar Number 1. Secretary will 4 read the controversial calendar, Supplemental 5 Calendar Number 1, commencing with Calendar 6 Number 1529, by Senator Velella. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1529, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4309-B, 9 an act to amend the New York City Civil Court 10 Act and the civil Practice Law and Rules. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 12 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 13 this bill would allow the city marshals in the 14 City Court in the city of New York to execute 15 money judgments in Family and Supreme Court the 16 same as they do now in Civil Court. The 17 enforcement procedures are basically the same; 18 just the dollar amounts are different, and this 19 would give a greater opportunity to enforce 20 money judgments and particularly in the cases of 21 child support where they would go out and 22 aggressively supplement the sheriff's force in 23 the city of New York only. 8214 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 if Senator Velella would yield to a question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Velella, will you you yield to a question? 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Is there a 11 backlog of cases in the city of New York 12 necessitating the need to make a conversion of 13 the marshals to perform the same duties as the 14 sheriffs? 15 SENATOR VELELLA: I would -- I'm 16 not aware of that. I am told that this would 17 help to speed up the enforcement of money 18 judgments in the city of New York. I don't know 19 how badly backlogged they are, but I see no harm 20 in allowing the marshals who perform the service 21 in the civil court to also perform it for 22 Supreme and Family. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 8215 1 if the Senator on would continue to yield for 2 one final question. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: And what 5 caused me to ask the question is that we have 6 men up here from the New York City and New York 7 State Sheriffs Association and obviously there 8 are some apparent reasons why they would be 9 opposing this, but they do go on to indicate 10 that this would be an additional cost. I don't 11 know that that additional cost would be 12 something that I would mind if we're having a 13 backlog, if there's some real purpose, and so 14 perhaps you can put all this to rest by giving 15 us perhaps an explanation for why we're doing 16 this. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, we're 18 doing it to provide a supplemental means for 19 enforcement of money judgments. People who 20 recover money judgments, the Family Court 21 decisions that are made where child support is 22 awarded to the parent who is dependent or the 23 person who has to get assistance for the support 8216 1 of the child, and this will give a better 2 opportunity. 3 The City marshals basically run a 4 private enterprise type operation whereas the 5 City sheriffs are City employees. They don't - 6 they don't produce the product of collecting the 7 judgment, they don't get paid. City sheriffs do 8 get paid. They're on the payroll, so -- so 9 their motivation will be to go out and work that 10 much harder on these. In addition, the City 11 sheriffs also are involved in a car towing 12 program and several other programs that do take 13 a great deal of their time away from us. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 17 Senator. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 8217 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 3 negatives. Announce the results when 4 tabulated. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 1529 are 7 Senators Connor, Kuhl, Leichter, Maziarz and 8 Saland. Ayes 54, nays 5. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 15 immediate meeting of the Environmental 16 Conservation Committee in the Majority 17 Conference Room. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 19 will be an immediate meeting of the 20 Environmental Conservation Committee in the 21 Majority Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate 22 meeting of the Environmental Conservation 23 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 8218 1 332. 2 Secretary will continue to read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1530, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4318, an 5 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 6 reimbursement. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1536, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6069, 19 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to the 20 collection and allocation. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number 8219 1 1536 has been requested by Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. This 3 provides for the creation of a special assistant 4 fund -- assistance fund for Central New York 5 Regional Transportation Authority, CENTRO, and 6 basically over the last couple of years there 7 have been deficits in CENTRO which has caused 8 great concern to the ridership, despite all 9 kinds of cost cutting efforts that they have 10 made. 11 Last year we had to take $600,000 12 out of the -- an emergency assistance fund in 13 order to keep CENTRO rolling at the rate they're 14 rolling right now. This year, the number was 15 $1.7 million. So each year there's this problem 16 because of the reduction in mortgage tax 17 receipts in Central New York. 18 Back in 1987, a similar 19 experience was felt by Erie County through the 20 Niagara Frontier Transit Authority, and the MTA, 21 and back then, special provision was made for 22 what we're asking for today, namely, taking one 23 quarter of one percent more out of the mortgage 8220 1 recording tax, not a new tax, but taking that 2 one-quarter of one percent more and using it for 3 mass transportation which is more of a long-term 4 solution like Niagara Frontier Transit Authority 5 and the MTA got in 1987, and this would provide 6 the same thing that those transit authorities 7 already have. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Num... 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leibell, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 22 I'd like to ask for unanimous consent to be 23 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 8221 1 1529. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Leibell 4 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 5 Number 1529. 6 Secretary will continue to call 7 the controversial calendar, Supplemental 8 Calendar Number 1. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1538, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6186, an 11 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 12 the establishment of a fee schedule. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8222 1 1546, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 2 Print 7755, an act to authorize the conveyance 3 of a permanent and a temporary easement. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Is Calendar 18 Number 1538 still in the house? May I move to 19 reconsider the vote and have an explanation on 20 that bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, it 22 is in the house, Senator Paterson. We'll -- the 23 motion is to reconsider the vote by which - 8223 1 read the title. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1538, by 3 Senator Larkin, Senate Print 6186, an act to 4 amend the Judiciary Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 6 to reconsider the vote by which the bill passed 7 the house. Secretary will call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll on 9 reconsideration. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is before the house. The Chair recognizes 13 Senator Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: May we have an 15 explanation for that bill? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 1538 18 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 20 Senator Paterson, this bill provides for the 21 establishment of fee schedules for capital 22 defenders on a county-by-county basis with a cap 23 based on 150 percent of the highest district 8224 1 attorney salary. 2 Last year, when this bill was 3 passed, we had four areas established, four 4 departments -- when the death penalty bill was 5 passed this was part of it, as you remember, and 6 we had four panels, a First Department, a 7 Second, a Third and Fourth, geographical across 8 the state and it was set, the fees that would be 9 paid. 10 Now, the problem with these fees, 11 if enacted, would result in defense assigned 12 paralegals earning more than double the income 13 of the chief prosecutors in some of our cases. 14 This bill ties the fees paid by the capital 15 defender's office to 150 percent of the highest 16 paid D.A.'s salary, provides that fees shall be 17 established on a county-by-county basis rather 18 than a districtwide basis, to better reflect the 19 salaries of the different counties, and I have a 20 list - 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8225 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: By way of 3 explanation to you and to the Majority, this 4 bill was laid aside by Senator Leichter and 5 Senator Leichter is not in the chamber because 6 he's in a Rules Committee, so -- I'm sorry. 7 He's in Environmental Conservation meeting, I'm 8 sorry, not Rules, but he is in a committee. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, Senator Leichter is standing back in 11 the back of the room or moving across the back 12 of the room. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. He's here now and - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 16 yield to Senator Leichter? 17 SENATOR PATERSON: I'll yield to 18 anyone, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter, we're on debate on Calendar Number 21 1538. Senator Waldon had also asked to talk on 22 the bill. Would you like him to talk while you 23 get prepared? 8226 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Waldon, on the bill. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 5 thank you very much. I would like the gentleman 6 to yield to a question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Waldon? 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 yields. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 14 Leichter, thank you for your deference. 15 Senator, I'm concerned about many 16 issues regarding this, but let me just - 17 SENATOR LARKIN: I can't hear 18 you. 19 SENATOR WALDON: I'll try again. 20 I'm concerned about many parts of this, but let 21 me just walk through with you as my guide one or 22 two or three of them. 23 Why did you choose the district 8227 1 attorney as a yardstick against which capital 2 counsel will be compared? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Very simple, 4 Senator Waldon, because the taxpayers are paying 5 on both sides of this. They're paying for both 6 the prosecution and the defense. 7 SENATOR WALDON: I don't -- Mr. 8 President, may I continue? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 continues to yield. 15 SENATOR WALDON: I -- with all 16 due respect, Senator Larkin, I heard what you 17 said but I don't understand it. You said that 18 the people are paying on both sides. If that's 19 the case, we could have chosen an outstanding 20 criminal defendant or an outstanding firm which 21 handles criminal defenses. Why the D.A., is the 22 question? 23 SENATOR LARKIN: I think it all 8228 1 boils down to one thing, Senator. We're talking 2 here about the taxpayers' dollars that are 3 available. We have -- we're not as -- ready? 4 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 5 may I continue? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Larkin, you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR WALDON: What about a 12 county which has a part-time D.A.? Is that 13 salary the same as say someone like an 14 outstanding district attorney, D.A. Hogan, in 15 Manhattan* County, for example? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: My proposal is 17 based on average salary of a district attorney 18 in those four departments, and we're looking at 19 the average salary, the average work week, and 20 that's how we come up with this figure. 21 SENATOR WALDON: I thought the 22 bill said the highest paid district attorney in 23 each county, not the average. 8229 1 SENATOR LARKIN: The highest paid 2 salary based on the yearly average. 3 SENATOR WALDON: All right. 4 Let's, if I may, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Larkin, you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 continues to yield. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Larkin, 11 what happens when there are extraordinary 12 expenses incurred by counsel? Is there a proviso 13 that there is a loophole to find monies to cover 14 the extraordinary expenses if we are to provide 15 adequate counsel for cases of this nature? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Waldon, 17 this doesn't change any of the language that's 18 in the current law that we enacted with the 19 death penalty and these provisions. It only 20 pertains to this part of the salaries that are 21 going to be paid, the monetary payments to the 22 capital defenders' people in relation to the 23 district attorney and their salaries. 8230 1 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 2 if I may. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Larkin, you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 continues to yield. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. I appreciate your indulgence, 11 Senator Larkin, but I'm just wondering if what 12 you said now just then was true, then the $175 13 per hour would have to cover extraordinary 14 expenses. There's no proviso to go beyond the 15 $175 per hour. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Once again, 17 Senator Waldon, nothing in our proposal changes 18 anything in existence except the hourly salary 19 that we feel should be paid. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 21 may I continue? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 8231 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Larkin, 5 are you an attorney? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: No, I'm not. 7 I'm a taxpayer. 8 SENATOR WALDON: I'm glad of 9 that. I would hate to see that any of us that 10 sit in this chamber are not taxpayers. I 11 appreciate your attempt at levity. I do not 12 find it one that would cause me to join you in 13 laughter. 14 But as an attorney practicing in 15 the area of criminal defenses where major cases 16 are your forte on a daily basis, I believe that 17 you would understand that this is not a gravy 18 train, meaning defending these defendants, that 19 this is not a situation where one can approach 20 it cavalierly, that this is an all-consuming 21 exercise and occupation and if such is the case, 22 at least in my perception and I'm sure if you 23 ask any of those in this chamber who practice in 8232 1 that area, how can we limit the trial counsel if 2 we mean to have an adequate judicial system 3 where the defense and the prosecution are on a 4 level playing field, how can we limit that 5 individual counsel or counsels to $175 an hour 6 and feel in a state of good conscience? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Waldon, 8 there's nothing in my bill that says $175. I 9 think you're referring to something that the 10 Court of Appeals talked about last week. My 11 bill specifically says 150 percent of that -- of 12 the prosecuting district attorney's office. 13 I think we ought to look at this 14 twice. What you're saying a level playing field 15 is exactly what this legislation proposes. The 16 district attorneys who produce the same amount 17 of hours as the capital defenders' office, 18 there's no cap on the number of hours they may 19 put into the case. It's just the salary per 20 hour. The district attorney gets paid a flat 21 salary per year regardless if he works 120 or 22 160 hours a week. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 8233 1 may I continue? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Larkin, 8 you just made my case. 9 If the district attorney's office 10 has extraordinary expenses in regard to a case, 11 for example, if the case lasts two years, 12 there's adequate wherewithal to cover the 13 expenses attached thereto. If the D.A. needs to 14 have transcripts as thick as all of these books 15 on this front row, all of these books, there's 16 adequate money to cover it. If the district 17 attorney requires extraordinary investigators, 18 there's adequate funds to cover it. If the 19 district attorney needs to assign not five but 20 15 attorneys to a particular matter, there is 21 adequate money to cover it, but the private 22 counsel, especially under the manner in which 23 you say we will approach this, if this becomes 8234 1 the law of the state of New York, will be 2 limited to whatever his resources are and, 3 therefore, it can never, ever be a level playing 4 field. It will be a slippery slope down into 5 chaos for those who are defending the defendants 6 because you will not commit adequate funds to 7 cover the extraordinary expenses, and I want you 8 to tell me how, in the equation that you set up 9 -- by the way, I came to the $175 by doing math 10 on 150 percent of, you know, what four district 11 attorneys salaries are, et cetera and that's how 12 we came to 175. 13 Tell me how it can be a level 14 playing field concerning what I just said to 15 you. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Waldon, 17 I'll try one more time. You're talking 18 something outside of the scope of my bill. The 19 death penalty bill, with the capital defenders 20 information in it covered everything that you're 21 talking about. We're not changing any of that. 22 It -- there is no less money, nothing about the 23 less salary of the attorneys but there's more 8235 1 funds for expert witnesses and everything else 2 that's in the death penalty bill remains the 3 same. We haven't changed that. 4 All we're saying in our bill is 5 that the capital defenders, 150 percent of the 6 district attorneys. We're talking about the 7 taxpayers for a change around here. I hear all 8 the time on the other side of the aisle we don't 9 worry about the taxpayers. Well, we on this 10 side of the aisle are worried about the 11 taxpayers. 12 I represent small counties, a lot 13 smaller than yours, 160,000 people. Our 14 district attorney in Ulster County makes $60,000 15 a year, and what we're saying is we want a level 16 playing field. We don't want the taxpayers to 17 have to pick up this. We're not depriving them 18 of anything and if you're going to tell me that 19 there's a lawyer in this room or a lawyer in 20 this state that refuses to work for 150 or '60 21 or 190, whatever it might be because of the 150 22 percent, so be it. 23 Let's make it a level playing 8236 1 field for both the victim, the defendant and the 2 taxpayers of the state of New York. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 4 may I continue? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Larkin, you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR WALDON: My dear 12 colleague, Senator Larkin, I never ever said 13 that any lawyer here or anywhere in this chamber 14 or anywhere in this state would refuse to work 15 for that amount of money. I don't know what 16 they would do, because that is a personal 17 decision, but what I do know is that, if one 18 side has all of the resources and the other side 19 is sucking wind, it's going to be very difficult 20 to have a level playing field. 21 I understand the nature of what 22 happens in your county, but I also understand 23 that you represent 300,000 people and that's how 8237 1 you got here, and I represent 300,000 people and 2 that's how I got here, and that is what makes us 3 equal in terms of debating issues on this 4 floor. We came here, sent here by the same 5 number of people, so your sense of responsi 6 bility for 300 people -- 300,000 people in your 7 area is no less than mine for the 300,000 people 8 in my area. 9 And so I ask you one more time, 10 is there any sensitivity to ensuring that 11 defense counsel will have the resources made 12 available to him or her to try these major cases 13 beyond what you've said so far? 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator, all - 15 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 16 apologize to my colleague, Senator Larkin. I 17 was listening to counsel. I did not hear his 18 last statement. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: I didn't say 20 anything. Out of courtesy to you, you were 21 talking to your counsel, I did not respond. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: I waited for you 8238 1 to finish your conversation. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Would you be so 3 kind? 4 SENATOR LARKIN: I'll just say 5 this once more. What we're talking about here 6 is the salary. We're trying to make this a 7 level playing field for the taxpayers who are 8 going to pay for the defense and for the 9 taxpayers who support the county district 10 attorneys. 11 All of the other assistance and 12 facilities that were laid out in the death 13 penalty bill which addressed specifically the 14 CDOs remain the same. All we're saying is that 15 paying of a salary of a lawyer that's going to 16 do this work is going to be 150 percent of what 17 the prosecutor, the county district attorney in 18 those respective counties, laying out in the 19 four panels. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 21 thank you and I thank Senator Larkin. I'd like 22 to speak briefly on the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8239 1 Waldon, on the bill. 2 SENATOR WALDON: I recognize that 3 Senator Larkin really believes in what he's 4 espousing. I do not find him to be a 5 duplicitous individual. However, I believe that 6 what will happen is we're going to have a series 7 of cases which will be reversed on appeal simply 8 because adequate counsel will not accept the 9 amount of money that's being required by this 10 proposal. 11 So in the short run it may be 12 effective in terms of dollarwise concepts, but 13 in the long run this will be again a penny-wise 14 pound-foolish move because it's just going to 15 create a backlog of cases on appeal and 16 eventually we may have to reverse ourselves and 17 pay the piper -- pay what is adequate -- pay 18 what good counsel will bear in terms of having 19 adequate defense counsel for those people caught 20 in this situation. 21 I doubt very seriously if my 22 colleagues on the Republican side of the aisle 23 will listen to my plea in terms of voting with 8240 1 me on this issue. I would hope that somewhere 2 your conscience is -- is at least touched by 3 some of the things that we say on this side of 4 the aisle, but those on the Democratic side of 5 the aisle, I would hope that you would recognize 6 that this is not in our best interests as a 7 state, as a people, or as taxpayers, because in 8 the long run it's going to cost us money and 9 that is not a wise thing to do, to crate, for 10 sure, failures that will cost us money. 11 I encourage us all to vote in the 12 nay on this issue. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. Thank 14 you, my colleagues. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 18 Senator Larkin, when you passed the death 19 penalty bill we told you it was going to cost 20 money, big bucks, because death penalty cases 21 are extremely complex, extremely difficult and 22 obviously extremely important because you're 23 dealing with the ultimate sanction, the ultimate 8241 1 penalty. 2 Now, when the bill was passed, 3 there was an agreement. I didn't agree to it. 4 I voted against it, but there was an agreement 5 by the two houses and the bill that passed, the 6 Volker bill, set up a system to fix fees for 7 people who would handle these capital cases. 8 Now, there was set up an office 9 of capital punishment or whatever the exact 10 title is, but there was also a system set up 11 under the auspices of that bill where, in each 12 judicial division, an effort was made to try to 13 determine what the hourly rate should be, and 14 not surprisingly and I think quite correctly, 15 down in New York City, that area where legal 16 fees run very, very high for top-notch 17 attorneys, where 300, $400 an hour is not an 18 unusual fee by any means, there was a 19 recommendation that the fee could be as high as 20 $300 an hour. 21 As I understand it, the Court of 22 Appeals said they would not agree or approve any 23 fee higher than $175 a hour. That's where we're 8242 1 at. Now, Senator Larkin, you come along and 2 you're tryin' to change that deal, and you're 3 doing it really based in a very myopic way. 4 I just urge you and suggest that 5 talk to your son who is an attorney. He'll tell 6 you what legal fees cost. They're very 7 expensive and, if you want and you're going to 8 have to have, it isn't if you want, you have to 9 have constitutionally the most competent 10 lawyers. You can't just grab somebody who's 11 fresh out of law school who's trying to 12 establish a local practice. Here, would you 13 handle this capital case? No, you're going to 14 have to go out and get extremely experienced 15 attorneys, and experienced attorneys command 16 very high fees and unless you do that, you're 17 going to find that your death penalty cases, if 18 they should result in conviction and the 19 imposition of the death penalty, are going to be 20 reversed. 21 So you want to put people to 22 death. Your bill is going to result in those 23 people that you want to put to death not being 8243 1 put to death because there's going to be a 2 constitutional infirmity. You're going to have 3 to pay attorneys. 4 I know this is a one-house bill, 5 but, nevertheless, I think it's -- it's unfor 6 tunate that in this somewhat not underhanded but 7 it's a backhanded way, you're changing what was 8 agreed on last year. 9 Now, maybe what it is is you're 10 finally realizing, Hey, this is going to be 11 really expensive, and let me just tell you it's 12 going to cost an incredible amount of money 13 because death penalty cases are very, very, very 14 expensive. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 18 unfortunately, I think I have to speak because I 19 think my - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 21 like to explain your vote, Senator Volker? This 22 is the last bill on Supplemental 1. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: I understand. 8244 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We're 2 about ready to move to Supplemental 2 and you're 3 very soon going to have on your desk the active 4 list for the calendar. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: I'll be very 6 brief. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Can we 8 read the last section? 9 SENATOR VOLKER: I'll be very 10 brief, don't worry. 11 Let me just say very briefly. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I've been 13 here too long, Senator Volker. 14 Recognize Senator Volker, on the 15 bill. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: First of all, no 17 one here, least of all myself or Senator Larkin, 18 has any intention of breaking the agreement that 19 we made as far as the capital defenders and the 20 death penalty when it was passed last year. 21 If you work out the formula as I 22 understand in that bill, it comes out to about 23 $175 a hour. Now, Senator, let me tell you 8245 1 something about death penalty cases. First of 2 all, it's a huge hoax that death penalty cases 3 are so incredibly expensive. It's a part of the 4 culture we have when we attempt to combat the 5 death penalty. It's one of the things that the 6 anti-death penalty people say to try to combat 7 the death penalty. I understand that. 8 It's incredibly expensive in part 9 because a lot of attorneys have milked the 10 system in a lot of states, frankly, and we are 11 not going to let that happen in New York. Does 12 that mean that we are not going to allow 13 attorneys or get proper repre... or people that 14 are involved in death penalty cases to get 15 proper representation? Absolutely not and, by 16 the way, Senator Waldon, and I think maybe you 17 don't realize, this bill has nothing to do with 18 all the periphery, all the things that, other 19 than the salary of the attorneys which you know, 20 there was a lot of expenses that will be covered 21 during these cases for dictatorial work and all 22 the rest of the things which are all included 23 and we have set aside a good deal of money for 8246 1 capital defenders for that purpose. 2 Yes, Judith Kaye, the Chief 3 Judge, has issued a ruling although she has not 4 necessarily issued a ceiling but has made a 5 recommendation for $175, but I don't think 6 anybody in this chamber intends to go back on 7 the agreement that was made last year to provide 8 proper and adequate fees for people who 9 represent individuals in these capital cases, 10 but I think you must understand that I think it 11 is -- it is inherent on us to make sure that we 12 do not allow to happen in this state what has 13 happened in some other states, and that is that 14 because of the necessity to provide proper and 15 adequate representation, that we end up with 16 some attorneys taking advantage of that and 17 taking advantage not only of the individuals who 18 are on the death penalty cases, by the way, it's 19 sometimes even the defendants, but the 20 taxpayers, and that's what Senator Larkin is 21 talking about and that's why he has this bill 22 and that's what it was really all about. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 8247 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will - 3 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. I 5 know that loving look. 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you so 10 much. 11 Mr. President, the only thing 12 that bothers me is that there are -- there have 13 been a number of bills this year which are not 14 so much aimed at saving money, not so much aimed 15 at doing anything social but basically what they 16 do is they create unfair political inferences 17 and basically set up enemies. 18 What is needed to defend a case 19 has no relationship and shouldn't have 20 relationship to the price you're paying for 21 prosecutors. You've got private lawyers doing 22 private work and you've got people who decide to 23 go into government work, and I want to tell you 8248 1 something. 2 We have lawyers who work for the 3 Legislature, and there's a couple of them right 4 behind me who, if they went into private 5 practice, might do better for themselves 6 financially. That has nothing to do with the 7 price of tea in China. 8 There are people who go into 9 D.A.s' offices. Some of them are part time, 10 some of them are not, and the bottom line here 11 is not whether we give college classes to 12 prisoners when they can't get them if they're on 13 the farm, et cetera, et cetera. The bottom line 14 is making sure that, in capital cases, there is 15 proper representation properly funded and, 16 Senator Larkin, you are a gentleman. You're a 17 nice man. This bill does the wrong thing in the 18 wrong way. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8249 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Dollinger to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 6 President, I've been out of the chamber for this 7 debate, and I regret it, but it seems to me that 8 putting a cap on the fees that would be paid to 9 a lawyer in a capital case makes little sense. 10 Lawyers have to carry overhead, they have to 11 carry benefits. They have to carry assistants, 12 none of which an assistant district attorney has 13 to bear, and none of which, it seems to me, are 14 taken into account in this bill and, for those 15 reasons, Mr. President, I think this is a fair 16 and reasonable amount. The Court of Appeals has 17 done a great deal of work to decide on this 18 amount to be paid to lawyers and, as I said at 19 the time we passed the death penalty, if we're 20 going to expose anybody to that penalty, we 21 should be assured that they have the best 22 lawyers in this state available. 23 This bill, if it some day became 8250 1 law, would be a step away from that commitment, 2 and I'm not willing to step away from it. 3 I'll be voting in the negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 6 Senator DeFrancisco to explain 7 his vote. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm going 9 to vote yes, but I just want to mention a couple 10 of things. It sounded, the way this bill was 11 debated, that lawyers are simply mercenaries 12 looking for the highest paid dollar that you can 13 possibly get to handle certain cases. 14 People in Onondaga County on the 15 assigned counsel list, handling murder cases, 16 murder cases, not capital cases but murder 17 cases, are earning $25 an hour out of court, $40 18 an hour in court. It's absolutely totally 19 outrageous, but I believe that competent lawyers 20 have stepped forward to handle these cases and 21 the judges are very careful in making certain 22 that the people who they assign these cases are 23 competent. 8251 1 So it's a very difficult bill. 2 I'm going to vote yes, but I really really take 3 offense at the inference made by some that 4 lawyers somehow do not provide anything for the 5 public good, that they're looking out to feather 6 their nests because there's a lot of good 7 lawyers who are making a lot less than they 8 would normally make in regular cases in handling 9 very, very serious cases as we -- as we speak 10 today. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 Announce the negatives and the 15 results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1538 are 18 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, 19 Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, Smith and 20 Waldon. Ayes 50, nays 9. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Stachowski, why do you 8252 1 rise? 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 3 President, could I have unanimous consent to be 4 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1529, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senator Stachowski will be recorded 8 in the negative on Calendar 1529. 9 Senator Abate, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR ABATE: Mr. President, I 11 ask for unanimous consent to be recorded in the 12 negative on Calendar Number 1529. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, Senator Abate will be recorded in the 15 negative on Calendar Number 1529. 16 Senator Oppenheimer, why do you 17 rise? 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: For the 19 same reason. I would like unanimous consent on 20 1529 to be recorded in the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 23 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on 8253 1 Calendar Number 1529. 2 Is there any other Senator 3 wishing to record a vote at this time? 4 Senator Dollinger? 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 6 President, would you also record me in the 7 negative, with unanimous consent, on Calendar 8 Number 1529. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 11 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on 12 Calendar Number 1529. 13 Have a couple housekeeping 14 matters, Senator Skelos. Return to motions and 15 resolutions. 16 Senator Stafford. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 First, there'll be a meeting of 20 the Finance Committee tomorrow morning at 9:00 21 a.m., in Room 332. 22 Also, Mr. President, I was out of 23 the chamber and had I been here when there was a 8254 1 vote on Calendar Number 1526, Senate Number 2 7764, I am in the affirmative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 record will reflect, Senator Stafford, that had 5 you not -- that you were out of the chamber when 6 the vote was taken on Calendar Number 1526 but 7 had you been in the chamber you would have voted 8 in the affirmative. 9 We are on motions and 10 resolutions. Chair recognizes Senator Seward. 11 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 12 President. On behalf of Senator Wright, on page 13 51, I offer the following amendments to Calendar 14 Number 988, Senate Print Number 2029-C, and ask 15 that the said bill retain its place on the Third 16 Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Amendments to Calendar Number 988 are received 19 and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the 20 Third Reading Calendar. 21 Senator Marcellino. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. Mr. 23 President, on behalf of Senator Levy, please 8255 1 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 68, 2 6-8. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: At the 4 request of the sponsor, Calendar Number 68 is 5 starred. 6 Senator Marcellino. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 8 President, I wish to call up Senator Kuhl's 9 bill, Number 3981, having passed both houses and 10 not delivered to the Governor. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the title. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 721, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3981, an act 15 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 19 President, I now move to reconsider the vote by 20 which this bill was passed and ask that the bill 21 be restored to the order of third reading. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will call the roll on reconsideration. 8256 1 (The Secretary called the roll on 2 reconsideration. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is restored. 6 Senator Marcellino. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 8 President, I now offer up the following 9 amendments. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Amendments are received and adopted. 12 Senator Maziarz. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, Mr. 14 President. I'd ask unanimous consent to be 15 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 16 1332, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maziarz 19 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 20 Number 1332. 21 Senator Paterson, why do you 22 rise? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 8257 1 I appear to have developed a torn rotator cuff 2 and apparently I didn't get my hand up on 3 Calendar Number 1529. With unanimous consent, 4 I'd like to be recorded in the negative there 5 too. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 8 Paterson will be recorded in the negative on 9 1529. 10 Senator Alesi. 11 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. I ask unanimous consent to be 13 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 14 1332. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Alesi 17 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 18 Number 1332. 19 Any other Senators wishing to 20 record a vote? Hearing none, the Chair calls on 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 as we move on to Supplemental Calendar Number 2, 8258 1 there's still the good possibility that the 2 pasta could be al dente tonight, so if we could 3 take up Supplemental Calendar Number 2 non 4 controversial. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Just for 6 the benefit of members, the new active list on 7 the regular calendar has been distributed. That 8 is on your desk. You should be looking at that 9 in anticipation that that will be next, but in 10 the meantime we will return to, or go to Senate 11 Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 12 Secretary will read the 13 non-controversial reading of Supplemental 14 Calendar Number 2. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1547, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4708-B, 17 an act to amend the Insurance Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 21 act shall take effect in 30 days. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 8259 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1548, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5133 7 A, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 8 Security Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1549, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5787, an 21 act to amend the Education Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 8260 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1550. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is high. Lay the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1551. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is high. Lay the bill aside. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 19 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR GOLD: An inquiry was 21 just made of me by Senator Stachowski with 22 regard to 1548, Senator Marcellino's bill, which 23 just passed where there's a memo in opposition 8261 1 from the City, but that's on the original print, 2 and since they didn't bother to do anything on 3 the "A" print I guess that they agree with the 4 "A" print as does, I guess, all the unions that 5 have filed. So I don't want you to recall the 6 bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 8 for your observations, Senator Gold. 9 Secretary will continue to call 10 the non-controversial Supplemental Calendar 11 Number 2. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1552, by Senator Smith, Senate Print 6080, an 14 act authorizing the city of New York. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 16 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 17 read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8262 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock 4 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance 5 Assembly Bill 8816-A, and substitute it for the 6 identical Third Reading Calendar 1553. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Assembly -- excuse me. The Senate bill is high 9 but the Assembly bill will be substituted. 10 Secretary will read the title. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1553, by member of the Assembly Tocci, Assembly 13 Print 8816-A, an act to amend the Education Law 14 and the State Finance Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 16 live before the house. Secretary will read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect January 1. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8263 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1554, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 6312, an 5 act to amend the Education Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1555, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6338-A. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1556, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6491-A, an 23 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 8264 1 Executive Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 5 act - 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1557, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6528, an 11 acted to amend the Civil Practice Law and 12 Rules. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect on the first day of 17 January. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 8265 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1558, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 6712 3 A, an act allowing Leonard J. Rosa and/or 4 Michael W. Siciliano. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 7 read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1559, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 6872, an 18 acted to amend the Insurance Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8266 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1560, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6932, an 8 act to amend the County Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 10 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 11 read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect on the first day of 14 January. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1561, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7066-B. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8267 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside at the request of the acting Minority 3 Leader, Senator Paterson. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1562. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is high. Lay the bill a side. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1563. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is high. Lay the bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1564, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 7258-A, an 14 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 15 Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8268 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 4 1565, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 7473-A, 5 an act in relation to authorizing the village of 6 Whitehall. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 8 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 9 read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 the passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1566, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 7507-A, 20 an act to amend the Election Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is high. Lay the bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell 8269 1 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 2 Assembly Bill Number 8854 and substitute it for 3 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1567. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 6 the title. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1567, by member of the Assembly Matusow, 9 Assembly Print 8554, an act to repeal sub 10 division 30 of Section 3. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1568, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7581-A, 23 an act to amend the Insurance Law. 8270 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 is there a message of necessity at the desk. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 a message of necessity at the desk. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 9 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 10 Number 1568. All those in favor signify by 11 saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The message is accepted. 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8271 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1569. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is high. Lay the bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1570, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 8 Print 7841, an act to amend Chapter 708 of the 9 Laws of 1992. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 is there a message at the desk? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 15 a message of necessity at the desk. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 19 Calendar 1570. All those in favor signify by 20 saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response.) 8272 1 The message is accepted. 2 Secretary will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Skelos, that completes 11 the non-controversial reading of Supplemental 12 Calendar Number 2. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe if we 14 could move on to the controversial reading of 15 Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the controversial reading of 18 Supplemental Calendar Number 2. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1555, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6338-A, an 21 act to amend the Tax Law. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8273 1 Seward, an explanation of Calendar Number 1555 2 has been requested. 3 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 This legislation is very narrowly 6 focused. It merely requires hotels that are 7 operated by colleges and universities with more 8 than one hundred rooms at these hotels to 9 collect the normal sales tax from the non-exempt 10 guests at these hotels. 11 The idea behind the legislation 12 is that the customers who are guests at the 13 hotels and not traveling on university or 14 government or other exempt business should not 15 derive the benefit from the institution's 16 tax-exempt status. 17 Such hotels operating in the 18 manner that they have been are in direct 19 competition with privately operated hotels and 20 this bill would merely clarify the law and 21 establish a level playing field. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Stachowski. 8274 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 2 President, I'd like to point out that Cornell 3 has a memo in opposition to this bill pointing 4 out that some of the reasons that they are 5 exempted from the sales tax law in particular is 6 because operating their hotel on their campus is 7 already significantly above what other hotels 8 not functioning as educational program at the 9 hotel that they have and that they have 10 additional kitchen space and facilities, for 11 example, that drive the costs up because of the 12 teaching capacity of the hotel and that the 13 staff of the Statler have instructional 14 responsibilities to the students at the School 15 of Hotel Administration, and these duties 16 increase their compensation levels substantially 17 above comparative hotels not engaged in the 18 education of students, and the list goes on 19 about all the responsibilities and details that 20 make that hotel more expensive to operate, and 21 the reason that this hotel has always been 22 exempted from sales tax were these various 23 educational responsibilities. 8275 1 So I'd have to ask if the sponsor 2 of the bill would yield to a question, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Seward, do you yield to a question - 5 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- from 7 Senator Stachowski. 8 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, 10 were you aware of all these additional costs 11 incurred by the operation of this hotel because 12 it is an educational facility and that that was 13 probably the reason that it was exempted from 14 the Tax Law in the first place? 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 16 President, I represent Ithaca, and the Cornell 17 area is in my district, and I am aware of the 18 memo issued by Cornell, and I believe, in all 19 due respect for Cornell, and there's not a 20 greater supporter of Cornell than myself in this 21 chamber. It's a great institution, and I 22 certainly would do nothing to impair its fine - 23 it is a fine institution. 8276 1 I am not, in sponsoring this 2 legislation, doing anything that would 3 negatively impact Cornell University. This is 4 not a tax on Cornell University or its 5 proceeds. It is merely having the sales tax 6 imposed on the non-exempt guests at the hotel at 7 Cornell, and it would not in any way affect 8 Cornell funds. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the 10 Senator yield for another question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Seward, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 continues to yield. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Then I mean 17 my question is, if it doesn't have any effect, 18 then why would Cornell University care whether 19 you have this bill or it doesn't, if it doesn't 20 affect their funding, their operation, and only 21 affects guests that aren't -- that shouldn't be 22 exempt? 23 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 8277 1 President, I think that would be a question 2 you'd have to ask the Cornell people. I -- we 3 have a honest difference of opinion here with 4 Cornell and, as I say, I think their criticism 5 is misdirected because it will not impact their 6 funds in any manner. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 8 President, if the Senator would continue to 9 yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Seward, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 continues to yield. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Are there 16 any other hotels on any other campuses in the 17 state that would be affected by this 18 legislation? 19 SENATOR SEWARD: The only one 20 that could potentially be affected, and I'm not 21 sure of the number of rooms at the hotel, would 22 be possibly the hotel at Paul Smiths College. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 8278 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I'm surprised at 5 the debate. As one of the people who a New York 6 Times reporter who never spoke to anybody 7 indicated, I guess, I was listed as part of the 8 Cornell connection, and I can tell you that I 9 got no call from Hank Dullea or anybody else, 10 and I'm surprised to even hear there's a memo. 11 I would assume that Senator Seward and I, as 12 part of the Cornell powerhouse, would have 13 certainly heard from them and not having heard 14 such, I'm going to support the bill. I assume 15 it's necessary. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8279 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1556, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 6491-A, an 5 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the 6 Executive Law. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay the bill 8 aside temporarily. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside temporarily. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1561, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7066-B, 13 an act to amend the Insurance Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1561 16 has been asked for. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: This bill - 18 Mr. President, this bill is a bill that deals 19 with technical relationships between insurers. 20 It removes certain provisions that were put into 21 the law in the 1980s when we had an insurance 22 crisis in this state, and we put a battery of 23 consumer protections into the law across - 8280 1 covering all insurance transactions. 2 This will eliminate some of those 3 consumer protections in sophisticated trans 4 actions such as mortgage guarantee insurance and 5 credit insurance which is dealt with amongst 6 companies and insurers. There will no longer 7 be, if this bill passes, the need for each 8 company to notify the other of cancellations and 9 non-renewal protections that we maintain in the 10 other consumer transactions. These are consumer 11 protections that are given in commercial 12 relationships. 13 The reason for doing this is that 14 very few states, if any, have this protection in 15 the law for commercial transactions, and it will 16 -- it is giving New York State a tougher time 17 than its competition in getting these types of 18 transactions to occur within our state. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 I won't ask Senator Velella a question. I'm 23 just going to reflect on what I'm understanding 8281 1 and if Senator Velella cares to comment, he can, 2 but I guess what Senator Velella is saying is 3 that in the case of mortgage guarantees and 4 credit insurance, they don't really involve much 5 of a consumer presence or activity in those 6 transactions and, therefore, the consumer 7 protections that we granted when we passed the 8 sort of omnibus bill in 1986 don't really have 9 much meaning and, therefore, we're just 10 alleviating what is an unnecessary duty on the 11 part of companies to inform each other. 12 I assume that's the reason, and 13 if that's the case, then there's much less 14 consumer impact than I might have thought when I 15 first looked at this bill, then I guess this 16 bill is fine. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 23 Velella would yield, please. 8282 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Velella, would you yield to a question from 3 Senator Leichter? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Senator 5 Leichter, I certainly will yield and try to do 6 my best to answer. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, maybe 8 I missed something in your explanation, in which 9 event I apologize, but you're adding as forms of 10 insurance which are excepted from the regulation 11 of the department or some of the other supervis 12 ory functions that the Department now pursues 13 and, as I read it, policies providing mortgage 14 guarantee or credit insurance. 15 Now, are you saying that only 16 inter-company or does this cover all mortgage 17 guarantees or credit insurance? 18 SENATOR VELELLA: The way I would 19 read it is that it would carry all mortgage 20 guarantees and credit insurance. Credit 21 insurance is more of the technical one. 22 Mortgage guarantee is not as sophisticated but 23 certainly is something that is provided for 8283 1 within the insurable community. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. And, 3 Senator, I understood you to say that these are 4 transactions that rarely touch the common 5 consumer. I mean a mortgage guarantee. 6 SENATOR VELELLA: A blanket - 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me just 8 finish the question. A mortgage guarantee, it 9 would seem to me, is extremely common. That's 10 something that most people in this state who are 11 home owners are going to have occasion to get. 12 SENATOR VELELLA: It does not 13 affect the individual policy, company to 14 policy. It affects the bundling and the groups 15 that purchase these en masse. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. So 17 you're saying, and that's why I asked you - 18 SENATOR VELELLA: And this 19 section applies to that. This section we amend 20 applies to the mass commercial sections. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. So then 22 your answer to my previous question was, it does 23 not cover all mortgage guarantees. It only 8284 1 covers mortgage guarantees where there is a 2 bundling of mortgage and you're selling it to 3 another company. Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Holland, that completes 15 the calendar, Supplemental Calendar Number 2, 16 with the exception of Calendar Number 1556, 17 which you laid aside temporarily. What's your 18 desire now? 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Could we now, 20 Mr. President, go to the non-controversial for 21 the supplemental active list, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll now 23 go to the supplemental active list which is on 8285 1 your regular calendar, the yellow calendar. 2 Secretary will call the 3 non-controversial supplemental active list on 4 the Calendar Number 62. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 115, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 587-A, an 7 act to amend the Penal Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Is there a 11 message at the desk, Mr. President? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 13 a message of necessity at the desk. Motion is 14 to accept the message of necessity which is at 15 the desk on Calendar Number 115. All those in 16 favor signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The message is accepted. 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 23 act shall take effect on the first day of 8286 1 November. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 the passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 132, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5134, 10 an act in relation to granting. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 171, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2470-A, an 23 act to repeal section 147 of the Social Services 8287 1 Law. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will lay the bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 661, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6882, an act 7 to amend the Education Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 19. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 667, by member of the Assembly Farrell, Assembly 20 Print 8533-A, an act to amend the Domestic 21 Relations Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 8288 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 1, 7 Senator Tully recorded in the negative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 736, by Senator Santiago, Senate Print 2889-B, 10 an act to authorize the city of New York. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 12 home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 13 read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 907, by member of the Assembly DiNapoli, 8289 1 Assembly Print 8856, an act to amend the 2 Executive Law and the Real Property Tax Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 926, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6275-A, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 19 act shall take effect on the first day of July. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8290 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1000, by Senator Volker, Senate Bill 1262-B. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 1009, by 9 Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7312-A, an act to 10 amend the Public Health Law and the Mental 11 Hygiene Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. Lay the bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 15 1066, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 16 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number 17 10,694, an act in relation to authorizing and 18 directing. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8291 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1080, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6733, an 8 act to amend Chapter 541 of the Laws of 1991. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1081, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 6734-A, an 21 act to amend Chapter 914 of the Laws of 1984. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 8292 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1110, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 2817, an 11 acted to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1313, by member of the Assembly Weisenberg, 8293 1 Assembly Print 1465, an act to amend the Public 2 Health Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The roll 11 call is on Calendar Number 1313, Assembly Print 12 1469, or excuse me, 1465. Negatives please 13 raise their hands. Record the negatives. 14 Announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 1313 are 17 Senators Cook, Hoblock, Leichter, Onorato, Smith 18 and Tully. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside, 20 please. Could we lay that aside temporarily. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 Senator Stachowski, why do you 8294 1 rise? 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is bill, 3 Calendar 1081, 6734-A still in the house? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 5 anything still in the house? No, it's not, 6 Senator Stachowski. It's on its way to the 7 Assembly. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Well, let it 9 go; it's not that important. O.K. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will continue to call the non-controversial Sup 12 plemental 2 calendar,supplemental 2 active list. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1380, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 6611-A, 15 an act to amend the Executive Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 8295 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1404, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 2481-B, 5 an act to amend the Executive Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect July 1. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1479, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7729. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Lay aside, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 Senator Holland, that completes 23 the non-controversial reading of the 8296 1 supplemental active list on Calendar Number 62. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. Mr. 3 President, now can we do the controversial 4 portion of this calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the controversial reading of the 7 supplemental active list on Calendar Number 62 8 commencing with Calendar Number 171. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 -- let's get the bill before the house. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 171, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2470-A, an 14 act to repeal section 147 of the Social Services 15 Law. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Holland, an explanation of Calendar 171 has been 19 requested by Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 21 this bill does not impose any new laws or 22 penalties. The bill simply moves the penalties 23 for food stamp fraud that are currently in the 8297 1 Social Services Law to the Penal Law. 2 The New York County District 3 Attorney's Office recommended this change in 4 order to enhance the ability of prosecutors to 5 prosecute instances of food stamp fraud since 6 the courts and D.A.s are more familiar with the 7 Penal Law than they are with the Social Services 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. Senator Paterson, excuse me just a 11 minute. It's kind of noisy in here. I think 12 maybe we can shorten this up if we can hear each 13 other. Members, please take their chairs, take 14 the conversations out of the room. 15 Senator Holland, do you yield? 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 18 Holland, other than the New York County District 19 Attorney's Offices, has there been any outcry to 20 have this -- this designation switched by any 21 place else around the state? 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. I believe 23 they're the only one that requested it, Senator, 8298 1 but we did check with other district attorneys, 2 people in the business, and it did -- they 3 thought it would be easier for them, for people 4 to recognize it in the Penal Law rather than 5 overlooking it in the Social Service Law, more 6 than the -- just the Manhattan District 7 Attorney's Office although there were no 8 specific requests. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: All right. 10 Thank you very much, Senator. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1000, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1262-B, an 23 act to amend the Public Health Law. 8299 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I would 3 remind the members if you have a bill on the 4 calendar, we're trying to get through this, it's 5 going to just delay the process and you may lose 6 a bill on the way if you're not here to defend 7 it or present it to your fellow colleagues. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Lay aside 9 temporarily, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside temporarily. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1009, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7312-A. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay it aside 15 for the day, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 17 bill aside for the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1313, by member of the Assembly Weisenberg, 20 Assembly Print 1465, an act to amend the Public 21 Health Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Somebody 23 requesting an explanation of Calendar 1313? 8300 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, please. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 3 Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 1313 6 has been asked for by Senator Gold. 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 8 the title of this bill is fluoridation, but what 9 it really says is that we believe in the 10 democratic system. We believe that the elected 11 officials in the various communities should make 12 decisions on behalf of their constituents and 13 not a non-elected bureaucrat who has a 14 particular mission which may not be in accord 15 with the wishes of the members of that 16 community. 17 So this permits decisions on 18 fluoridation of water to be made by the local 19 elected body. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I want to 8301 1 thank Senator Johnson. I had noticed very 2 quickly that there was some support for the bill 3 and also some opposition, including the office 4 of the mayor, and I wanted to read the memo 5 since they apparently took the time to file one 6 today. But in reading the memo by the office of 7 the mayor, apparently their opposition is the 8 fact that it gives this authority to the city 9 Council which is the locally elected body in our 10 city, and if the memo of the mayor is not 11 necessaryily for the good of the people but just 12 a power play between him and the City Council, I 13 think I can support the legislation. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 17 Hearing none, Secretary will read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8302 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Cook, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR COOK: Explain my vote. 4 Mr. President, normally if there were a home 5 rule bill, I would certainly be supportive of 6 it. The problem is that, if there is a water 7 system that's serving more than one municipality 8 it's going to be pretty difficult to sort out 9 the water going to that municipality from that 10 which goes to everybody else which means that 11 one municipality could then deprive all the 12 other municipalities that might be served by the 13 same system from having fluoride in their water, 14 so I think that if it were a home rule bill, I 15 would certainly support it, but I really don't 16 see it in that -- in that light, and I'm voting 17 in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Cook will be recorded in the negative. Read the 20 negatives and announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar 1313 are Senators Cook, 23 Goodman, Hoblock, Kruger, Leichter, Libous, 8303 1 Marchi, Onorato, Rath, Seward, Smith and Tully. 2 Ayes 47, nays 12. Also Senator Marcellino. 3 Ayes 46, nays 13. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 8 can we return to Calendar 1009, Senator Maziarz' 9 bill and then do Calendar 1000, Senator Volker's 10 bill, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the title to Calendar 1009. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1009, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 7312-A, 15 an act to amend the Public Health Law and the 16 Mental Hygiene Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: 20 Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Maziarz, an explanation of Calendar Number 1009 23 has been requested by Senator Montgomery. 8304 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Lay the bill 2 aside for the day, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside for the day. 5 Secretary will read the title to 6 Calendar Number 1000, by Senator Volker. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 8 1000, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1262-B, an 9 act to amend the Public Health Law, the Multiple 10 Dwelling Law, the Multiple Residence Law and the 11 Executive Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Volker, an explanation of Calendar Number 1000 14 has been requested. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 16 since 1975, Assemblyman Arthur Eve and myself 17 have been attempting and have been dealing with 18 a problem that has occurred in this state for 19 many years relating to lead contamination. 20 I think many of us are aware that 21 we have made huge strides in this state, not 22 reported a great deal because good news is 23 sometimes not reported, but we have made great 8305 1 strides in cleaning up lead, lead gasoline and 2 all sorts of areas. 3 One of the areas that remains a 4 big problem is the issue of lead abatement in 5 housing across the state, particularly frankly 6 in New York City, and we passed a bill here some 7 years ago, Assemblyman Eve and myself, which 8 began the process of dealing with this issue. 9 The major problem that has 10 occurred is that there is a federal program for 11 lead abatement but, in order to access that 12 federal program, the state needs to develop a 13 training -- lead abatement training and 14 certification program. 15 The primary purpose of this bill 16 is to provide that training and certification 17 program. What does that program mean? For 18 instance, as a starter, it means $6 million 19 which has been proposed to be given to the city 20 of Albany would flow, 3.75 million to the city 21 of Buffalo would continue to flow and 6.7 22 million to the city of New York with a 23 considerable amount of money, more money, to be 8306 1 available during the coming year. 2 We have, in the last two weeks, 3 significantly amended the bill that has been on 4 the calendar for about a month and a half or two 5 months. We have worked with the Health 6 Department, we have worked with housing people, 7 we have worked with all sorts of people in 8 attempting to amend this bill to deal with, 9 number one, the certification, the ability to 10 clean up lead wherever possible without, by the 11 way, creating such havoc as they did in 12 Connecticut and Massachusetts, particularly in 13 Connecticut where they passed a wonderful bill 14 made all sorts of announcements that they were 15 doing a wonderful job and then couldn't do 16 anything because they had overkilled. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 18 President. Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Leichter, excuse me. Why do you rise? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Would 22 Senator Volker yield, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 8307 1 Senator Leichter, before we do that, could we 2 get a little order in the house? Have a little 3 order in the house, please. We're getting very, 4 very close. It's liable to be very confusing 5 because we're going to be bouncing around 6 supplemental calendars and regular calendars, so 7 listen tight. 8 Senator Volker, do you yield to 9 Senator Leichter. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 yields. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 14 Volker, I appreciate what you're trying to do 15 and certainly lead-based paint is a very serious 16 problem and affects hundreds of children and 17 maybe thousands of children, and we certainly 18 need to act against it, and I applaud your 19 trying to do this. 20 I have one concern. The city of 21 New York has a number of laws dealing with the 22 removal of lead paint. It has a very active 23 program. I want to make sure that there is 8308 1 nothing in your bill that in any way preempts 2 the City's program and imposes less strict 3 requirements as to the removal of lead paint. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: One of the major 5 arguments, the disputes that went on during this 6 debate, and I'll be very honest with you was 7 that very issue and the decision was, I think, 8 by the Health Department, the advocates and 9 everybody involved was that there should be no 10 preemption, so there is nothing in this bill 11 that says any stronger attempts by any 12 municipality or any -- any individuals is 13 preempted. 14 In fact, the City, by this bill, 15 will now be able to access additional money and 16 be able to use their own rules and will be able 17 to develop more people, more certified training 18 people and will be able to do a much better job 19 of trying to clean up lead themselves, but 20 there's nothing in this bill that preempts the 21 city of New York. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Mr. 23 President, if Senator Volker will continue to 8309 1 yield. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure, sure. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, is 4 there language in this bill which states that 5 nothing herein is intended to preempt, because 6 my concern is that, while that may not be your 7 intention, the bill doesn't state so and there 8 is right now going on a real debate within the 9 city of New York as to the nature of the 10 enforcement of laws on lead-based paint. 11 I want to make sure that we're 12 not going to have somebody go to court and say 13 the City's laws are now overridden by this law. 14 Well, you shake your head and say that - 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, 16 Senator, please. Would you -- just a second, 17 Senator. I mean let's -- the City, by the way, 18 realizes this already, and there's been a 19 discussion with the City, and their concern is 20 that this may broaden their exposure in a way 21 because you know that there's ambivalence going 22 on in the city of New York. They want to move 23 ahead but they don't. The City Council has been 8310 1 arguing on this for three years. 2 Senator, there is absolutely 3 nothing in this bill that will cause the city of 4 New York rules to be preempted. In fact, some 5 of the rules in this bill, by the way, will 6 greatly assist the City in dealing with the 7 lead-based problem, but there is nothing in this 8 bill and I know of -- the City, by the way, has 9 been looking at this bill, and the City Council, 10 as you know, has been debating this for three 11 years. In fact, one of the problems that we had 12 in trying to get this set up was that many of 13 the health people were waiting for the City to 14 decide where it was going. 15 What this bill does, it does not 16 impact on the city of New York directly as far 17 as what they have done, but it will provide 18 certified people that will be able to do these 19 kinds of -- kinds of clean-up jobs. It will 20 allow, in fact, voluntary groups to help 21 participate also, because it sets up a training 22 program for people who are not certified 23 trainers but who can help out in certain cases. 8311 1 It also provides a fee schedule and it will 2 access the money that is absolutely necessary 3 for the city of New York as well as other cities 4 in this state to be able to really do a proper 5 program. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7 if Senator Volker continues to yield. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 10 have no question but there's a lot of good in 11 this bill, and I accept what you say, that this 12 will allow us to access the federal monies. I 13 just want to make it perfectly clear that the 14 city of New York will not be negatively impacted 15 and my question is, you say you've reviewed this 16 with the City. Do they support the bill? 17 SENATOR VOLKER: The City has not 18 said one way or another, but they have not, as I 19 understand it, talking today to the Health 20 Department people and to -- to the various 21 people involved, they have not said that they 22 oppose it either. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 8312 1 I -- if you continue to yield. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Certainly not 4 your responsibility and I think Senator Gold 5 before, has expressed, you know, some concern 6 that there are important bills affecting the 7 city of New York and we don't know what 8 positions the city of New York has taken. 9 Senator, I will accept your word 10 that this does not preempt any of the City's 11 laws and justifies so that we're perfectly clear 12 so that we have the legislative intent, I will 13 ask you, is it your intent by this in any way to 14 override local laws anywhere in the state? 15 That's the question. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: The answer is 17 no, it does not intend in any way, shape, form 18 or manner to override local -- local laws and 19 rules. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 8313 1 me. Senator Gold, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Mr. 3 President, I'm rising because this is a "B" 4 print. I have a memo from EPL on the "B" 5 printed. They have, as we now sometimes smile 6 about but it's really serious, three chimneys on 7 it. They obviously think that it is a serious 8 matter and, while my friend and the gentleman 9 who I respect as much as anyone in this house, 10 Senator Leichter, may casually make reference to 11 the City, I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed. I'm 12 annoyed at wasting taxpayers' money, if the City 13 doesn't do its responsibility and has an office 14 up here. 15 I can't believe that EPL believes 16 that this is a danger in the -- to the extent 17 that they declare it and we have nothing from 18 the city of New York for guidance, and I think 19 they ought to close up that shop. It's ob 20 viously a no-show operation and save the City 21 some money. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8314 1 Volker. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: I just want to 3 point out, this bill is supported by the New 4 York State Health Department, the Medical 5 Society of New York, the New York State 6 Association of County Health Officials, Campaign 7 for Healthy Children, Statewide Youth Advocacy. 8 I just thought that should be on 9 the record. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 13 act shall take effect December 31. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Hoblock to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Mr. President, 20 thank you. 21 I just wanted to thank Senator 22 Volker for bringing this bill forward and all of 23 the work that he has put in to produce this 8315 1 product. 2 This is a very significant issue 3 in many parts of the state and here in Albany 4 County and particularly the city of Albany, it's 5 something that they've been looking for for some 6 time in order to access the $6 million that they 7 would otherwise be eligible for to take on this 8 lead abatement project in the city. 9 So, again, Senator Volker, I want 10 to thank you for working this legislation 11 through. Looking forward to it being signed 12 into law to benefit those of this city and so 13 many others across the state. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 as much work as Senator Volker and Assemblyman 18 Eve have done on the subject, this particular 19 bill is opposed by NYPIRG and EPL. They give it 20 three chimney stacks, and they must really be 21 upset about this bill. Usually they reserve 22 three chimney stacks, but these chimney stacks 23 are red, and I think the reason that they're so 8316 1 upset is that there is an exemption for what's 2 called largest buildings and what this really 3 does is exempt a whole lot of areas from the 4 lead abatement and from the lead-based activity 5 work, and also there's a feeling that the 6 legislation has so many exemptions in it that 7 it's going to be void for vagueness. 8 The bill has been passed in the 9 Assemblyman by Assemblyman Eve. It is accept 10 able to those groups, and we feel that perhaps a 11 bill of similar strength might pass the Senate 12 at a future date. We are in favor of what 13 Senator Volker is trying to do, and that is to 14 establish an effective lead-based abatement 15 program, and remove hazardous conditions that 16 are caused by lead in many buildings all over 17 our state. 18 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson, you're voting in the negative? 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8317 1 Paterson will be recorded in the negative. 2 The Chair recognizes Senator 3 LaValle to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 5 I would like for the record to -- since Senator 6 Gold raised the issue of the EPL memorandums and 7 -- I think it's important for the record to 8 show that on the initial bill, S.1262, the 9 memorandum in opposition after Senator Volker 10 made a -- made major changes and major 11 amendments in the bill, the memorandum that was 12 put out today on Senate Bill 1262-B is exactly 13 the same memorandum. 14 So it is apparent that EPL - 15 word for word, the memorandums are the same - 16 it appears that someone at EPL did not read the 17 amended bill and did not understand that there 18 was a change, and so with that, Mr. President, I 19 am voting in the affirmative on Senator Volker's 20 bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 22 negatives. Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8318 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1000 are 2 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gold, 3 Goodman, Hoffmann, Kruger, Leichter, Levy, 4 Marcellino, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Smith, Tully 5 and Waldon. Ayes 44, nays 15. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Holland. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator 10 Maziarz. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Maziarz, why do you rise? 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: , Mr. President, 14 I'd like to request unanimous consent to be 15 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 661, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maziarz 19 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 20 Number 661. 21 Senator Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 23 can we return to the first active list of the 8319 1 day, Calendar Number 1512, Senator Present's 2 bill. Is there a message at the desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 4 return to Calendar Number 62, first calendar of 5 the day, the yellow back -- or bound cover. 6 I'll ask the Secretary to read Calendar Number 7 1512, by Senator Present. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1512, by Senator Present, Senate Print 7648-A, 10 an act legalizing, ratifying and confirming. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Holland, there is a message of necessity at the 13 desk. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: I move we 15 accept the message, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 18 the desk. All those in favor signify by saying 19 aye. 20 (Response of "Aye".) 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 The message is accepted. There's 8320 1 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 2 The Secretary will read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Libous, why do you rise? 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 14 could I have unanimous consideration to be 15 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 667, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Libous 19 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 20 Number 667. 21 Senator Maziarz. 22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 8321 1 My apologies. Earlier I stood up 2 and asked to be recorded in the negative on 3 Calendar Number 661. I meant 667. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 6 Maziarz' vote in the negative on Calendar 661 7 will be reversed and placed in the affirmative. 8 Senator Maziarz will be recorded in the negative 9 on Calendar Number 667. 10 Senator Montgomery, why do you 11 rise? 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 13 President, I would like to be recorded in the 14 negative on Calendar Number 1000. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 16 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 17 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 18 Calendar Number 1000. 19 Senator Maltese. 20 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 21 may I have unanimous consent to be recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 667. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 8322 1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Maltese 2 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 3 Number 667. 4 Senator DiCarlo, why do you 5 rise? 6 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 7 I'd like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 8 negative on Calendar 667. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection, hearing no objection, Senator DiCarlo 11 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 12 Number 667. 13 Senator Holland, we have a couple 14 of housekeeping things that we could take up at 15 this time. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Please do the 17 housekeeping. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 19 return to motions and resolutions. 20 In the meantime, Senator 21 Paterson, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 Senator Markowitz has been asking and our 8323 1 counsel has really not been helpful, so we 2 thought maybe you could ask. We just want to 3 know what the current schedule is right now 4 because Senator Markowitz would like to know. I 5 don't know if anyone else does, but we'd just 6 like to alleviate some of these concerns because 7 we haven't been getting answers, and this is not 8 the Majority's fault. This is an in-house 9 thing. Usually we don't air our dirty laundry. 10 In fact, now that the Republicans do that so 11 much, we wouldn't think of doing it, but we just 12 need to know what the current schedule is. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson, I guess the Chair would have to know 15 which counsel you're getting absolutely no 16 cooperation or answers from before I can respond 17 adequately, but in the meantime, we are on 18 motions and resolutions. 19 The Chair recognizes Senator 20 Tully. 21 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 On behalf of Senator Leibell, I 8324 1 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 6134, 2 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 3 desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the title. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 490, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6134, an 8 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 12 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 13 bill was passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will call the roll on consideration. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Tully. 21 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, I 22 now offer the following amendments. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8325 1 amendments are received and adopted. 2 Senator Tully. 3 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, on 4 behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on page 34, I 5 offer the following amendments to Calendar 6 Number 1165, Assembly Print Number 7412 and ask 7 that said bill retain its place on the Third 8 Reading Calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 amendments to Calendar Number 1165 are received 11 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 12 the Third Reading Calendar. 13 Senator DiCarlo. 14 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 15 I wish to call up my bill, Print Number 4014-B, 16 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 17 desk. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Secretary will read the title. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 673, by Senator DiCarlo, Senate Print 4014-B, an 22 act to amend the Executive Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8326 1 DiCarlo. 2 SENATOR DiCARLO: Mr. President, 3 I now move to reconsider the vote by which this 4 bill was passed. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will call the roll on 7 reconsideration. 8 (The Secretary called the roll on 9 reconsideration.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Saland. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 14 I'd like to request unanimous consent to be 15 recorded in the negative on Calendar 667, and if 16 I may also on Calendar 13... or do I do that as 17 a separate motion? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You can 19 ask. 13... what was that? 20 SENATOR SALAND: 1313. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Saland 23 will be recorded in the negative on Calendars 8327 1 Number 667 and 1313. 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 4 can we return to the supplemental active list 5 and do the last bill, Calendar 1479, Senator 6 Velella's bill, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 8 return to the supplemental active list - 9 supplemental active list, which are bills on the 10 regular calendar, Calendar Number 62, and we'll 11 go to Calendar Number 1479. 12 The Secretary will read the 13 title. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1479, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 7729, an 16 act to amend the Public Health Law. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Velella, an explanation has been asked for by 20 Senator Paterson. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 22 this bill is a bill which has been worked on for 23 a long period of time. We've passed a version 8328 1 of it two or three times now in this house. 2 It's been called the baby AIDS bill, and it is a 3 bill that we have before us now which has been 4 negotiated by the Assembly and the Senate and 5 the Governor's office and has three-way 6 agreement on it. It just passed the Assembly a 7 few moments ago by a vote of 123 to 20. 8 What the bill does is it allows 9 the Commissioner of Health to establish a 10 comprehensive program for newborn testing of HIV 11 and HIV antibodies. As you know, the state of 12 New York now tests babies for the presence of 13 the antibodies but never reveals to the mother 14 or to the doctor the results of that test. The 15 test is kept for statistical purposes. 16 This bill n now directs the health 17 commissioner to act on the results of those 18 tests that are being given and to let the mother 19 know, to let the treating physicians know so 20 that we can maximize the protection for that 21 child who may have tested positive for the 22 antibody and will not be getting the full blown 23 disease unless the mother reintroduces that 8329 1 virus to her and also if the child is infected 2 by the HIV virus, will allow the doctor to know 3 that the specialized treatments that are 4 necessary for that child will be provided 5 immediately to prevent the very damaging 6 pneumonias that can develop and the normal 7 childhood diseases that can be fatal to an HIV 8 child, will be able to be protected for that 9 child. 10 We give them special attention. 11 They will be identified by the doctors. The 12 parents will know about the status of the child, 13 and it will be a very positive step toward 14 getting a handle on this disease and preventing 15 children from being infected by their parents. 16 It's not very often that we can 17 pass legislation in this house that we know 18 absolutely will save lives. Once this bill is 19 in place and once the health commissioner 20 promulgates these rules, babies' lives will be 21 saved. This is not a remote possibility. It's 22 a reality. 23 I could not stand before you and 8330 1 ask you to vote for this bill without paying a 2 tremendous amount of tribute to Assemblywoman 3 Mayersohn who has been -- who is here in the 4 chamber with us who has been a never-ending 5 force in the fight for these young children. 6 From day one, she has made this 7 her dedication. Today is a day that we should 8 all be honoring her in the tremendous battle 9 that she has put forward to save the lives of 10 these young people. 11 With that, I will yield to any 12 questions and I move the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 on the bill. I'm sure Senator Velella is aware 17 of some of my concerns based on debates we've 18 had in this chamber in February 1995, June 1995, 19 March 1996 and today. 20 On those occasions, what I have 21 tried to point out to the members is that 22 proponents of this legislation who are quite 23 well intended nonetheless seem to feel that the 8331 1 objection comes from an issue of 2 confidentiality. 3 The objection that I'm advocating 4 here today comes from an issue of consent, that 5 if we had the informed consent and we had the 6 voluntary treatment of mothers who are having 7 their newborns tested, what we would have is a 8 greater cooperation between the -- between the 9 parents and the actual infant who we are hoping 10 to help through our health care system. We are 11 going to need this parent in order to provide 12 whatever assistance we can to the newborn, and 13 creating a scenario of mandatory testing is not 14 going to give us this opportunity. 15 Now, due to a lawsuit that was 16 brought before the Department of Health, there 17 are new regulations that have been promulgated 18 within the last month and in Albany Medical 19 Center, statistics are already showing that 90 20 percent of women who are in this situation where 21 they have newborns and the women are testing 22 positive, the women are deciding to find out 23 what the results of that test are, and that 8332 1 really comes from a long education on this issue 2 and a totally different point of view than might 3 have existed some time ago. 4 And so because of that, to now 5 take this entire issue as a Legislature and dump 6 it completely on the Department of Health and 7 the commissioner when the Governor has stated 8 that he will direct the Commissioner of Health 9 to establish mandatory testing, in my opinion, 10 is the Legislature exercising a misfeasance of 11 its duty to address this very important issue 12 that affects people in a number of ways. 13 I actually prefer the legislation 14 that Assemblyman Mayersohn -- Assemblymember 15 Mayersohn and Senator Velella had offered last 16 year because, even though I disagreed with it 17 and I spent about an hour and a half disagreeing 18 with it quite strenuously, the fact remains that 19 at least we would have a clear and delineated 20 pattern of what the testing would be. 21 Now we have really relinquished 22 our authority as a Legislature because we 23 couldn't find a common ground for which we could 8333 1 all agree, and we have shifted to the Department 2 of Health allowing them to promulgate all 3 regulations on the area and really allowing for 4 the Governor to direct the commissioner for what 5 would inevitably be mandatory testing. 6 What we need to look at are some 7 issues that would establish perhaps presumptive 8 Medicaid relief for those individuals who are 9 affected. The fact that a person tests positive 10 to the HIV antibody does not guarantee that 11 there will be any intervention on -- to the 12 level of the health care that they need to 13 receive. We have to make sure that the money 14 that we're funding from this does not take away 15 from other areas so that we're just rearranging 16 deck chairs on the Titanic dealing with the very 17 seriously ill and those who are in need of 18 responsible and very thorough care, and what we 19 also have to make sure is that the fact that we 20 do recognize that there are individuals testing 21 positive for the antibodies does not mean that 22 all will go on to acquire the HIV virus and 23 inevitably the full-blown AIDS disease and that 8334 1 there are a number of ways to treat this and 2 that we do not have a fool-proof treatment that 3 exists at this particular time. 4 I think if we had, it would 5 certainly urge us to take an action closer to 6 what Assemblymember Mayersohn and Senator 7 Velella have offered us today, but I think that 8 in the end, the Legislature has not lived up to 9 our responsibility and have really just taken 10 this whole issue because we couldn't settle it 11 among ourselves and allowed the Department of 12 Health in a compromise that I think will not 13 inure to our benefit because there are a number 14 of very intricate issues that must be resolved 15 and to leave that totally in the hands of the 16 Department of Health when it has that kind of 17 scrutiny and micro-management in it on this 18 particular subject, in my opinion, is really 19 beyond the scope of what should be our authority 20 today. 21 What we need to do is to address 22 this issue, and what we really need to do is to 23 find some workable, sensible and achievable ways 8335 1 to provide assistance for newborns. 2 Again, where we have really 3 believed in -- where we have really believed in 4 providing these women with what is really the 5 requisite information that they need to 6 establish a voluntary system, that has worked, 7 and we certainly think that it will continue to 8 work and the statistics will continue to rise if 9 we just give it a chance because in the end, 10 just knowing that someone has tested positive 11 for the HIV virus at birth is not going to 12 guarantee any cure. It's not going to guarantee 13 even the type of -- the type of care that's 14 needed because we're going to need the parent 15 involved, and if the parent is in the state of 16 denial that we've seen so many mothers of 17 newborns that are in at this particular time, 18 then in those situations we're not going to get 19 the cooperation that we desire. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 21 recognizes Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 I think Senator Paterson as always was extremely 8336 1 eloquent and perceptive. I disagree with him in 2 one respect. I think this is an issue for the 3 health professionals and not an issue for the 4 Legislature, and I've thought so all along. 5 You know, I criticized the 6 Legislature and this body because at times we 7 want to act like police commissioners. We act 8 like engineers. We want to be judges. Then we 9 want to be doctors, public health experts. This 10 is a public health issue and it ought to be 11 treated and considered by the professionals. 12 My problem here is that this 13 isn't being decided by the professionals. This 14 isn't being decided by the Health Department. 15 This is being decided by Dr. Pataki because he 16 has said, I will direct you to require that you 17 inform the mother in the event that the infant 18 tests positive. 19 I think if it had been left to 20 Commissioner DeBuono, she would not have done 21 this, because I remember on her confirmation, 22 Senator Velella, you asked her specifically was 23 she in favor of your bill, and you were quite 8337 1 exercised when she wouldn't answer. She -- you 2 know, she wasn't -- I think it was pretty clear 3 to me that she was not in favor of it, because 4 the fact is that most health professions are not 5 in favor of the mandatory telling of the mother. 6 Now, we all have the same intent 7 and purpose, and Senator Paterson was absolutely 8 correct when he said that those of us who oppose 9 this bill, it's not on the basis of 10 confidentiality. It's on the basis of what is 11 in the best interests of that infant. We share 12 the same goals, and the Velella-Mayersohn 13 approach is perfectly logical for most people, 14 but those people, you don't have to force them 15 to be told because they want to be told, but 16 you're dealing with a very small percentage 17 that's a very fragile, a very destabilized 18 population, and the issue is how do you get them 19 into the system? 20 I think I told you all last time 21 how in Michigan I was in a panel with the chief 22 medical officer of the Michigan Department of 23 Health -- as you know, Michigan has a Republican 8338 1 governor, and so on -- and when I told him about 2 the big furor in the state of New York about the 3 mandatory information to the mother, he couldn't 4 believe it. I said, "Well, didn't you have the 5 same thing in Michigan?" He said, "You know, we 6 had one or two legislators, and we explained to 7 them this wasn't in the interest of the child. 8 It wasn't in the interest of the mother" because 9 those people who don't want to know, you've got 10 to bring in the system. Just telling them, 11 hitting them between the eyes with a two by four 12 and saying, You know, you're positive. You have 13 HIV. You're HIV-positive, that person is more 14 likely than not to run out of the system with 15 the baby, and you'll defeat the very purpose 16 that you have, and that's why most of the 17 prestigious medical societies, doctors who work 18 with this population said, Don't do this. 19 You've got to bring the people in the system, 20 and what this bill does is to force them out of 21 the system. 22 We've debated it a great length 23 before, and so on, but I think we ought to be 8339 1 clear that this is really no different than the 2 Mayersohn-Velella bill that we had before, and 3 while I certainly want to acknowledge Assembly 4 Mayersohn's persistence in this issue, I think 5 it is misplaced, well intentioned as it is as, 6 of course, Senator Velella's. If you want to 7 help the infant -- and I think you do -- why 8 don't we listen to the professionals, to the 9 people who deal with this population who have 10 said to us, Don't do this? 11 Mr. President, this is no better 12 -- no different than what we had before. It's 13 people making political decisions, political 14 decisions and not the medical decisions it ought 15 to be -- that ought to be made. 16 I'm going to vote against the 17 bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Holland, we have received the Assembly bill. 20 We're ready to substitute that, if you'd like to 21 do that at this time. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr. 23 President. Please - 8340 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'd ask 2 the Secretary to read the substitution. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella 4 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 5 Assembly Bill Number 4413-C and substitute it 6 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1479. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 Will the negatives read the -- or 15 raise their hands, please. 16 Senator Abate to explain her 17 vote. 18 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I have been 19 very clear in this chamber about this bill. I 20 share the concerns of everyone in this chamber, 21 that we want to save babies' lives. When a 22 woman tests positive for HIV, we want to do 23 everything we can to get that woman and her baby 8341 1 into treatment, but this bill, the legislation 2 before us is not a treatment bill. It's a 3 mandatory testing bill and as my colleagues have 4 said, if I thought mandatory testing would get 5 babies and their mothers into treatment more 6 effectively, I would vote for it. 7 So I still believe that mandatory 8 counseling and doing everything we can to inform 9 mothers that it's in their interest and their 10 baby's interests to go get themselves tested and 11 to get into treatment is by far the most 12 effective and only effective way. The doctors 13 support that. 14 So I believe this bill doesn't 15 tell me what's going to be the next step. I 16 believe also if we really wanted to have health 17 professionals make this decision, we would take 18 it out of politics and put some of the leading 19 experts in the country in a panel to advise this 20 chamber and then we make a decision based on 21 that advisement. 22 So what we're doing is abdicating 23 our responsibility. I'm not assured today that 8342 1 we're any closer to producing good, public 2 health policy. 3 For these reasons, I oppose the 4 bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Abate will be recorded in the negative. Read 7 the negatives. Announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 1479 are 10 Senators Abate, Connor, Goodman, Leichter, 11 Montgomery, Paterson. Ayes 53, nays 6. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Holland, we have a couple 15 of matters of housekeeping we could take up at 16 this moment. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: Do the 18 housekeeping. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 20 return to motions and resolutions. 21 The Chair recognizes Senator 22 Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 8343 1 President. 2 On behalf of Senator Levy, I wish 3 to call up bill, Print Number 7363, recalled 4 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the title. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 849, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7363, an act 9 to amend the Public Authorities Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Wright. 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 13 now move to reconsider the vote by which this 14 bill was passed. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will call the roll on 17 reconsideration. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 8344 1 now offer the following amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 amendments are received and adopted. 4 Senator Wright. 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, 6 on behalf of Senator Levy, I wish to call up 7 bill, Print Number 7215, recalled from the 8 Assembly which is now at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the title. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 840, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 7215, an act 13 to amend the Public Authorities Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Wright. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President - 17 Mr. President, I now move to reconsider the vote 18 by which this bill was passed. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will call the roll on 21 reconsideration. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration.) 8345 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 bill is - 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President, I 5 now offer the following amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 amendments are received and adopted. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Wright. 11 SENATOR WRIGHT: I would also 12 request unanimous consent to be recorded in the 13 negative on Calendar Number 1313 and 667. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Wright 16 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 17 Number 667 and 1313. 18 Senator Oppenheimer, why do you 19 rise? 20 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 21 like unanimous consent to be recorded in the 22 affirmative on Calendar 1000. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 8346 1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 2 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the affirmative 3 on Calendar Number 1000. 4 Is there any other Senator 5 wishing to record a vote? 6 Senator Rath. 7 SENATOR RATH: I request 8 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 9 on Calendar Number 667. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 11 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Rath 12 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 13 Number 667. 14 Senator Stachowski, why do you 15 rise? 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 17 President, I request unanimous consent to be 18 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1313. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 21 Stachowski will be recorded in the negative on 22 Calendar Number 1313. 23 Senator Paterson, why do you 8347 1 rise? 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 it does not appear that Senator Markowitz will 4 get back into the chamber to vote on Calendar 5 Number 1479. He just asked that I recognize 6 that had he been in the chamber, he would have 7 voted in the negative. He actually said that, 8 Mr. President. I'm telling the truth, as I do 9 at least half the time in this chamber. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 record will reflect, Senator Paterson, that you 12 recognized that Senator Markowitz with his 13 snapping fingers is not in the chamber. He's 14 certainly not in his seat, and we appreciate 15 your recognizing his absence. 16 Senator Dollinger, why do you 17 rise? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, can I be recorded in the negative on 20 Calendar Number 1313? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, Senator Dollinger will be recorded in 23 negative on Calendar Number 1313. 8348 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 6 we expect to call a Rules Committee meeting 7 very, very shortly. In the meantime, can we 8 stand at ease until that committee is called? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the 10 benefit of the members on the Rules Committee 11 and all of the members in the house, it is 12 expected that there will be an additional Rules 13 Committee meeting called shortly. 14 Before we stand at ease, the 15 Chair recognizes Senator Tully. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 17 President. On behalf of Senator Farley, please 18 remove the sponsor's star from Calendar Number 19 1192. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 21 Number 1192 will have the star removed at the 22 request of the sponsor, and the Senate will 23 stand at ease. 8349 1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 2 ease.) 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 8 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol, and the 9 Senate will stand at ease pending the receipt of 10 the Rules Committee. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 There's an immediate meeting of the Rules 13 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. The 14 Senate will stand at ease pending the report of 15 the Rules Committee. 16 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 17 ease from 7:15 p.m. until 7:40 p.m.) 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 22 return to reports of standing committees, I 23 believe there's a report of the Rules Committee 8350 1 at the desk. I'd ask that it be read. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the report of the Rules 4 Committee. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 6 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 7 following bills directly for third reading. 8 2302, by Senator Stavisky, an act 9 to amend the Penal Law; 10 3867-C, by Senator Hoblock, an 11 act authorizing the town of Colonie; 12 6393-A, by Senator Hannon, an act 13 to amend the Social Services Law; 14 6672-A, by Senator Hoffmann, an 15 act to authorize payment of transportation aid; 16 7503, by Senator Larkin, an act 17 to amend the Highway Law; 18 7558-A, by Senator Tully, an act 19 to authorize the payment of transportation; 20 7584-A, by Senator Wright, an act 21 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 22 7588, by Senator Spano, an act to 23 amend the Administrative Code of the city of New 8351 1 York; 2 7602, by Senator Hannon, an act 3 to amend the Education Law; 4 7603-A, by Senator Rath, an act 5 to authorize the trustees of the State 6 University of New York; 7 7647-A, by Senator Saland, an act 8 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law; 9 7660-A, by Senator Leibell, an 10 act to amend Chapter 915 of the Laws of 1982; 11 7665, by Senator Wright, an act 12 to legalize, ratify and confirm; 13 7666, by Senator Wright, an act 14 to reopen the special retirement plan; 15 7672, by Senator Saland, an act 16 in relation to authorizing the city of 17 Poughkeepsie; 18 7676, by Senator Trunzo, an act 19 in relation to terms and conditions; 20 7716, Senator Johnson, an act to 21 amend Chapter 161 of the Laws of 1995; 22 7717, by Senator Velella, an act 23 to amend the Penal Law; 8352 1 7736, by Senator Alesi, an act to 2 amend the Insurance Law; 3 7740, by the Committee on Rules, 4 an act to amend Chapter 483 of the Laws of 1978; 5 7765, by Senator Volker, an act 6 to authorize employees; 7 7771, by Senator Sears, an act in 8 legalize, validate and ratify; 9 7772, by the Committee on Rules, 10 an act to amend Chapter 30 of the Laws of 1996; 11 7783, by the Committee on Rules, 12 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-mutuel wagering 13 and Breeding Law; 14 7791, by the Committee on Rules, 15 an act to amend Chapter 831 of the Laws of 1981; 16 7801, by the Committee on Rules, 17 an act to amend the Labor Law; 18 7802, by the Committee on Rules, 19 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 20 city of New York; 21 7803, by the Committee on Rules, 22 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 23 city of New York; 8353 1 7826, by Senator Seward and 2 others, an act to amend the Public Service Law; 3 And 7827, by Senator Seward, an 4 act to amend the Public Service Law. 5 All bills directly for third 6 reading. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 8 move to accept the report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: All 11 those in favor of accepting the Rules report 12 signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye".) 14 Opposed, nay. 15 (There was no response.) 16 The ayes have it. 17 Senator Skelos, we have some 18 housekeeping. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, there is. 20 Mr. President, on behalf of Senator Johnson, I 21 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 5344-A, 22 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 23 desk. 8354 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 4 Johnson, Senate Print 5344-A, an act to amend 5 the Social Services Law. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 7 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 8 bill was passed. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll on 12 reconsideration.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 15 believe the bill is restored to its place on the 16 Third Reading Calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 18 bill is restored to its place on the Third 19 Reading Calendar. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 21 now offer the following amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 23 amendments are received. 8355 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 On behalf of Senator Hoblock, I 4 wish to call up his Bill Number 7631, recalled 5 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 9 Hoblock, Senate Print 7331, an act to amend the 10 Criminal Procedure Law. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 12 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 13 bill was passed. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll on 17 reconsideration.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 20 believe the bill is restored to its place on the 21 Third Reading Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 23 bill is restored to its place on the Third 8356 1 Reading Calendar. You're right again, Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Now I offer the following 6 amendments which I'm sure you're going to 7 receive. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 9 amendments are received and adopted. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very 11 much, Mr. President. 12 Is there any other housekeeping 13 at the desk? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: There 15 are no other housekeeping items at the desk. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 17 think what we could do right now, the two of us 18 here and - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 20 three of us. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: -- and with 22 Senator Paterson. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: With 8357 1 unanimous consent. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: But there being 3 no further business, I move we adjourn until 4 Friday, June 14th, at 10:00 a.m. sharp. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VELELLA: The 6 Senate stands in recess 'til Friday -- adjourns 7 'til Friday, June 14th, 10:00 a.m. 8 (Whereupon, at 7:45 p.m., the 9 Senate adjourned.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23