Saturday, July 13, 1996

9846 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 July 13, 1996 11 1:43 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JAMES W. WRIGHT, Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 9847 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 3 it's now Saturday. Could you call us to order 4 and proceed with the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 6 Senate will come to order. Please rise for the 7 Pledge of Allegiance. Ask the gallery to rise. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 10 In the absence of clergy, may we 11 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed. ) 14 Secretary will read the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Friday, July 12th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, July 11th, 18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Hearing 21 no objections, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 9848 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Reports of select committees. 5 Communications and reports from 6 state officers. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 10 Bruno. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: It's my 12 understanding that we voted on Calendar 1451 13 yesterday within this last hour, and Senator 14 Markowitz was not here. Had he been here, he 15 would have been voting to abstain on that vote; 16 so I would like the record to show that on 17 behalf of Senator Markowitz. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 19 record will so reflect. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr. 21 President, there being no further business to 22 come before the Senate presently, I would move 23 that we stand at ease until 9:30 a.m. 9849 1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senate 2 shall stand at ease until 9:30 a.m. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in 4 the negative. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the 6 affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 36, nays 20, 11 party vote. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The 13 Senate stands at ease until 9:30 a.m. 14 Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President 16 -- Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: There will be 20 a Minority Conference at 9:00 a.m., in the 21 Minority Conference Room. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There 23 will be a Minority Conference in the Minority 9850 1 Conference Room at 9:00 a.m. 2 (Whereupon at 1:15 a.m., the 3 Senate stood at ease. ) 4 (The Senate reconvened at 9:36 5 a.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: The 7 Senate will come to order. 8 Senator Bruno. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Since we have 10 been standing at ease, I'd like to request that 11 the Majority members join me in Room 332 for a 12 Majority Conference, and for us to reconvene 13 session at about 10:15. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 we had a sterling Minority Conference at 9:30 18 and we're going to have another one, and that 19 will be immediately in the Minority Conference 20 Room. Tickets are available. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SPANO: Minority 22 and Majority Conferences in the respective 23 conference rooms. Senate will reconvene at 9851 1 10:15. 2 (The Senate stood at ease from 3 9:38 a.m. until 10:34 a.m.) 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 5 can we at this time ask for an immediate meeting 6 of the Finance Committee in Room 332. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 8 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate 9 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 10 Room, an immediate meeting of the Senate Finance 11 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 12 332. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 14 will come to order. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, is 16 there anything at the desk that we should be 17 taking care of at this time? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Got a 19 couple of substitutions, Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read. 9852 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 2 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 3 Assembly Bill Number 11326 and substitute it for 4 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1774. 5 Senator Goodman moves to 6 discharge from the Committee on Transportation 7 Assembly Bill Number 3027-C and substitute it 8 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1146. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Substitutions are ordered. 11 Senator Bruno, that brings us to 12 the calendar. 13 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 14 can we, on today's calendar, take up Calendar 15 572, Bill 6052-B. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On 17 Calendar Number 70, regular calendar for the 18 day, the Secretary will read Calendar Number 19 572, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 20 6052-B. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 572, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 23 6052-B, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 9853 1 Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 3 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 4 Hearing none, Secretary will read the last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Bruno. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 16 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 17 1607. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title to Calendar Number 1607, by 20 Senator Velella. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1607, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4714-A, 23 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation 9854 1 to obtaining nationwide criminal history 2 records. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Dollinger, did you wish to be recognized? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this 8 before us? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could I just 11 have a quick explanation, if I can. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 1607 14 has been asked for by Senator Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 16 President. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: No. This will 18 allow the city of New York to gain access to 19 federal and other states' criminal history 20 records when they process employees' 21 applications. Right now they're not authorized 22 to do anything except check the BCI reports of 23 New York State. This will allow them to check 9855 1 neighboring states and to check the federal 2 records, particularly in the area of people who 3 are employed for services that they provide to 4 children, so it will give them access to that 5 criminal history. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 7 President, just one question to cut to the 8 chase. Why doesn't it apply to the entire 9 state? 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Why does it? 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Why doesn't 12 the bill apply to the entire state? 13 SENATOR VELELLA: I believe that 14 the state now has that permission, but I know 15 the City does not. I know the City has 16 requested this, but my understanding is state 17 agencies -- and, unfortunately, I don't have the 18 file here -- state agencies can do a check with 19 the F.B.I. and do do a check with other states. 20 The city of New York did not have that permis 21 sion to do that for their employees. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 23 you, Mr. President, just one other quick 9856 1 question. Is this -- does this apply to private 2 employers that want to get this data? 3 SENATOR VELELLA: No, no. This 4 governs the city of New York employees. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: All right. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 Just on the bill briefly. I 8 think this is a good idea, and I would like to 9 see it expanded to include private employers. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 12 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 13 section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect in 60 days. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 23 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 9857 1 1774. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read Calendar Number 1774. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1774, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11326, an act 7 authorizing the creation of a state debt. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 10 the title. 11 Senator Marcellino, an 12 explanation of Calendar Number 1774 has been 13 asked for. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This 15 particular bill is an act authorizing the 16 creation of a state debt in the amount of 17 $1,750,000,000 in relation to creating a Clean 18 Air/Clean Water Bond Act for 1996. 19 This is to provide money for the 20 preservation, enhancement, restoration, 21 improvement of the state's environment and to 22 provide for state assistance payments for such 23 purpose and providing for the submission to the 9858 1 people of a proposition or question therefor to 2 be voted upon at the general election in 3 November of 1996. 4 Basically this puts the bond act 5 before the people. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Good morning, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Good 11 morning. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 13 Marcellino, would you yield for a question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Marcellino, do you yield? 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It will be 17 my pleasure to, sir. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 yields. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, might 21 I have a slightly more -- I'm sorry, Senator, 22 what I'm really looking for is a little more of 23 a breakdown on where some of the monies are 9859 1 allocated? 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The -- this 3 particular bill, Senator, is designed to place 4 this before the people. This does not have the 5 full spread of the money to be paid out. That 6 bill is before the Finance Committee now and is 7 on the agenda at the present time. It should be 8 in here to take that up at a later point. I 9 could give you a brief general synopsis in a 10 fairly rough form of where and just what some of 11 the projects are. 12 We have a category for safe 13 drinking water, for example, which includes 14 about $355 million to do projects relative to 15 water quality and safe drinking water. 16 We have some clean water projects 17 designated to the Hudson River, for example, $25 18 million associated with that, Hudson estuary 19 protection projects. Long Island Sound clean-up 20 is worth about $200 million applied to that. An 21 awful lot of work to be done on the Sound, as 22 you may know, as well as the Hudson River. 23 Lake Champlain improvements are 9860 1 about $15 million for Lake Champlain. For 2 Onondaga Lake clean-up about $75 million. The 3 New York harbor estuary improvements projects 4 come up with about $25 million. The Great Lakes 5 protection project is approximately $25 million, 6 Finger Lakes clean-up another $25 million. 7 Now, in some other water 8 categories, we could have the state facilities 9 environmental compliance, $25 million; the 10 Peconic estuary and South Sound estuary $30 11 million, waste water treatment improvement and 12 municipal flood control projects in smaller 13 communities. We've debated the infamous beaver 14 growth in this chamber many, many times and 15 there was some language in the Governor's 16 proposed budget to relieve the problem of 17 beavers from damming up waterways that flood 18 farm land. Rather than go through the trapping 19 and the killing of these animals, which the 20 beaver, by the way, as many of you know or 21 should know, is the state animal -- don't ask me 22 why -- this particular amount of money, about 23 $50 million, will allow for alternative means to 9861 1 help people to avoid flooding created by beavers 2 creating dams which back up water in particular 3 areas, so we'll have alternate means of avoiding 4 the flood and relieving the flooding problem 5 using duct work and maintenance action, so that 6 we can protect roadways and farm land from 7 flooding as a result of beaver damming. There 8 is also some money in here which could be 9 applied to the trapping and relocation of these 10 animals. Some suggested locations that we've 11 had in recent minutes was Prospect Park and 12 Central Park where there are lakes which could 13 hold the beavers, and we feel that would be 14 good. However, we don't feel the beavers would 15 be safe enough in these particular localities, 16 but we're looking into that. 17 I'm wondering who's paying 18 attention out there. Senator Seabrook, you 19 should back me up on that one. 20 We have some dam safety projects, 21 the dam that protects water, not the other kind 22 of damn. These projects are about $15 million 23 because in some areas of our state, some of our 9862 1 dams are in need of repair and work and there is 2 monies to maintain these necessary facilities. 3 We have some small business 4 environmental compliance assistance projects to 5 the tune of about $30 million dollars. This 6 would allow those small businesses that comply 7 or come under the compliance with, I believe, 8 the environmental protection or the 9 environmental -- the Clean Air Act and whatever, 10 they can apply and receive assistance in getting 11 that help to refit their facilities to meet 12 emissions control standards. So this would help 13 small businesses in a large manner all over the 14 state. 15 We have some open space programs 16 worth about $250 million in this particular 17 proposal; land acquisition approximately $150 18 million; state parks another $50 million, 19 municipal parks another $50 million, designed to 20 upgrade the state parks and enhance them and in 21 some cases create them where necessary where we 22 have the areas. 23 With respect to solid waste 9863 1 initiatives, we allow $175 million in this 2 proposal. Fresh Kills we've talked about that. 3 The Governor, the Mayor of the City, all the 4 people on Staten Island, I'm sure, would be very 5 pleased, and anyone who lives down wind of Fresh 6 Kills would be very pleased to see this 7 particular facility closed and eliminated once 8 and for all. It also might help some of the 9 stuff that floats across to other states which 10 gets away. 11 There is real Adirondack landfill 12 protection money, about 15 million -- $50 13 million, excuse me, to that particular area. 14 There is some recycling capital programs, 15 approximately $50 million, to help and assist in 16 developing recycling. Recycling, as you know, 17 for those of us who are into the system and into 18 the process, is the means, many of us believe, 19 to help eliminate a lot of solid waste that is 20 currently going into the waste stream. If we 21 can recycle and reuse, we take some pressure off 22 some natural resources. The reusing of this 23 material, alternate uses for recycled materials 9864 1 such as plastics which can be used for bulkhead 2 ing, for bench creation, facilities that will 3 not diminish. We don't have to use wood. It 4 means we don't have to chop down trees and we're 5 not looking to take away our forest products and 6 stuff like that. So this can be extremely 7 useful. There's a lot of work being done on 8 that. 9 Environmental restoration 10 relative to "brownfields", we've known for a 11 long time there's approximately $200 million in 12 "brownfields" protection. This is, I think, a 13 vital project. The money will be related and 14 the projects will be related using Superfund 15 standards so we're going to hold them to decent 16 standards and currently accepted standards, not 17 less standards. I know there was some fear in 18 the environmental community that the standards 19 would be lessened and watered down. We're 20 using, and we're going to hold people to 21 Superfund standards to make sure that this is 22 not the case. But the "brownfields" program can 23 be very useful, my colleagues, because this will 9865 1 take pressure off our "greenfields", the 2 so-called pristine sites which are out there 3 and, if we can revitalize and regenerate in an 4 old manufacturing plant that has been lying 5 fallow for years and been an eyesore in the 6 community, that garbage that was left because 7 nobody wants to deal with it which is on the 8 corner and has a graffiti site, nothing but 9 rubble and an eyesore in the neighborhood, and 10 nobody wants to take it on because they're 11 afraid of what might be below the surface and 12 what the environmental impact to their economic 13 well-being would be if they took over the site, 14 if we can get them to do that in an environment 15 ally safe way, develop a contract with these 16 people, protect them from liability so that they 17 don't take on more, unless they lie to us or 18 they try to misrepresent the clean-up but get 19 that site cleaned up and back on the tax rolls 20 in the use that it was meant to be used or the 21 way it was meant to be used, we've done an 22 environmentally solid and sound thing, not to 23 mention an economically sound thing for the 9866 1 community because that -- that site likely had a 2 tax certiorari, had its taxes reduced. If they 3 hadn't been paying any taxes now once cleaned up 4 and put back on the tax rolls it becomes a 5 positive for the community rather than an eye 6 sore and a negative. Too many of these sites in 7 the community and a community goes down the tube 8 because nobody wants to drive through a 9 neighborhood or open up a store in a 10 neighborhood or open up a shop or buy a home in 11 a neighborhood where your downtown has eyesores 12 and empty buildings and empty industrial sites. 13 So the "brownfields" proposal we 14 think is important to propose. It is something 15 that the Governor is very interested in. It is 16 something that I've had legislation on. I feel 17 very interested in this, and I think it's a very 18 important project all over the state. We, in 19 the northeast, have sites that are just, you 20 know, ideal for this kind of project. 21 Air quality projects, $230 22 million for clean fuel, moving into the range of 23 electric cars, alternate fuels, and the like. 9867 1 Small business environmental compliance projects 2 around $30 million, school and coal conversion 3 projects about $125 million to help schools, and 4 I'm sure many of them in the city of New York 5 are still burning coal. The high school I used 6 to teach in is still burning coal the way it did 7 when it was built some 70 years ago. This will 8 help them. This money can be applied to these 9 places to turn to safer, cleaner alternate fuels 10 and lessen the impact on the resources of an 11 already strapped city and already strapped 12 municipalities and school districts throughout 13 the state of New York. This is a positive on 14 that. 15 Senator, I've given you an 16 extensive rundown, but it's not as complete as 17 I'd like. The bill that will come out of 18 Finance, if it hasn't shortly, will have more 19 information on that and more details but I hope 20 I've provided you with some information. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 22 Senator. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9868 1 Mendez, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR MENDEZ: Senator, Mr. 3 President, I wonder if Senator Marcellino would 4 yield for a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Mendez, I did have a list running of other 7 members who had indicated earlier they wanted to 8 face the issue, if you don't mind take those in 9 order. 10 Senator Dollinger. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, I'll yield to Senator Mendez. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Waldon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: If the learned 16 gentleman would yield to a question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Marcellino, would you yield to an question from 19 Senator Waldon? 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Be my 21 pleasure to, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 yields. 9869 1 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, in your 2 preparation to submit this for consideration, 3 was there any dialogue with people in Queens 4 County as to the places that would be designated 5 to benefit from this proposal? 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I am sure 7 the people who prepared the bill -- this came 8 out of the Governor's office, as you well know, 9 in conjunction with the Senate Majority Leader's 10 office, and in conjunction with the staff of the 11 Environmental Conservation Committee. 12 We reached out -- I know the 13 Governor reached out to many groups. I am sure 14 the mayor of the city of New York was one of 15 those individuals reached out to and who had 16 input into the money that was needed and the 17 kind of projects that would be beneficial to the 18 areas throughout the state. 19 I am not familiar with one or an 20 individual maybe, the borough president of 21 Queens, I don't know a specific person from 22 Queens was talked to. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 9870 1 gentleman yield again? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Marcellino, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Surely. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. Thank you, Senator Marcellino. 9 Am I to assume from the statement 10 then that the areas of the Rockaways, Cambria 11 Heights, Rosedale, Queens Village, Laurelton, 12 Springfield Gardens, Rochedale Village, St. 13 Albans, parts of Jamaica, South Jamaica, and a 14 touch of Green Oaks are not intended to be 15 excluded from this proposal? 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, sir, you 17 should not draw that conclusion at all. You 18 mentioned some of the areas that I grew up in 19 and had a lot of fun playing ball in. St. 20 Albans and Flushing are my old stamping grounds 21 and I grew up in the Rockaways, so I certainly 22 would not allow those sites and those 23 communities not to have some input. The schools, 9871 1 for example, could be impacted with respect to 2 conversion from coal-burning furnaces to oil, 3 some of the older facilities in those 4 communities. 5 The south estuaries, the south 6 shore and north shore estuary work, the Sound 7 work along the waterways and the beaches will 8 apply and can apply and can be connected, 9 especially the Rockaways, to some of the water 10 act here. The "brownfields" approach certainly 11 impacts that community. There are many "brown 12 field" sites that would qualify in my estimation 13 for monies under the "brownfield" proposals here 14 in that community. 15 I'm very familiar with Spring 16 field Gardens High School and the surrounding 17 communities. They could benefit greatly from the 18 sites and from the money here. The proposals 19 that were raised and put in this particular bond 20 act were done in conjunction with the Conference 21 of Mayors and Municipal Supervisors so, no, by 22 no means should you feel that these communities 23 were excluded in any way, shape or form. 9872 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. Thank you, Senator. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: You're 4 welcome. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Mendez, did you wish to speak? 7 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Mendez waives. Senator Dollinger had indicated 10 a willingness to want to discuss the bill. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President, I will waive my request. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any any other Senator wishing to speak on the 15 bill? The bill is still high at this point, so 16 we'll have to lay the bill aside awaiting a 17 message from the second floor. 18 Senator DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I couldn't 20 have put it better, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: I think on the 9873 1 vote on the bill. I just didn't hear what you 2 said. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I said 4 the bill is high. We're awaiting a message from 5 the second floor. We'll lay the bill aside 6 awaiting that message. There is a report, 7 Senator DeFrancisco, of the Finance Committee, 8 if you'd like. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 I was going to address that before it was left 11 and spoken to, which I thought was being 12 psychic. I thought the bill was substituted 13 earlier today. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We were 15 -- we're debating the Assembly bill. The 16 Assembly bill is high. We're awaiting the 17 message here. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 19 a point of order. I may be missing something. 20 We have a message of necessity on this bill. It 21 can't be high. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do not 23 -- did not -- underlined -- not have a message 9874 1 of necessity. We're awaiting a message of 2 necessity. The bill is laid aside awaiting the 3 message. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 5 a point of order. This is the Assembly bill, am 6 I not correct, and the Assembly bill had a 7 message of necessity so, therefore, in my -- I 8 mean you can rule on this, but it's my opinion 9 it doesn't need a message and it's, therefore, 10 not high. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Paterson, I think you're very fortunate, unlike 13 the Assembly, who have had about five or six 14 hours sleep last night, my point being that the 15 message we had dealing with this was yesterday's 16 message. Today's message has not arrived, so we 17 can not take up the bill today. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 19 maybe it's me who's high and not the bill, 20 but - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I don't 22 know what you did when you left here last night, 23 Senator. 9875 1 SENATOR PATERSON: But I don't 2 think that we need a message because we already 3 have a message. That's all I'm saying, on the - 4 on the Assembly bill, which is the one that 5 we're actually debating that we already have a 6 message on and that's just the point of order 7 I'm trying to make. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson, I'd be happy to sit down and explain 10 this to you, but it is the understanding and the 11 ruling of the Chair that we do need a message of 12 necessity to take this bill up, so we do not 13 have one at the desk and we cannot take a vote 14 on the bill, so the bill will be laid aside 15 awaiting the message from the second floor. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I will -- I'd love to sit down 19 and talk to you, and we'll have something like a 20 soft drink to go along. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 DeFrancisco. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr. 9876 1 President, could we return to reports of 2 standing committees. My understanding is there 3 is a Finance Committee report at the desk. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 5 is. We'll return to reports of standing 6 committees and ask the Secretary to read. 7 Secretary will read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 9 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 10 following nomination: 11 Member of the Board of Trustees 12 of the City University of New York, Nilda Soto 13 Ruiz, of the Bronx. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any 15 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 16 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 17 of Nilda Ruiz, of the Bronx, to become a member 18 of the Board of Trustees of the City University 19 of New York. All those in favor of the 20 nomination signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 9877 1 The nominee is confirmed. 2 Secretary will continue to read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 4 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 5 following nomination: 6 Member of the Board of Trustees 7 of the State University of New York, Nicole Yae 8 Kyoung Kim, of New York City. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 any Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 11 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 12 of Nicole Kim, of New York City, to become a 13 member of the Board of Trustees of the State 14 University of New York. All those in favor of 15 the nomination signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 The nominee is confirmed. 20 Secretary will continue to read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 23 following nominations: 9878 1 Members of the Board of Trustees 2 of the New York State Higher Education Services 3 Corporation: John R. Durso, Jr., of Massapequa 4 Park, and David Porter, of Saratoga Springs. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 6 any Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 7 Hearing none, the question is on the nominations 8 of John Durso, Jr., of Massapequa Park, and 9 David Porter, of Saratoga Springs, to become 10 members of the Board of Trustees of New York 11 State Higher Education Services Corporation. 12 All those in favor of the nominations signify by 13 saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed nay. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 The nominees are confirmed. 18 Secretary will continue to read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 21 following nomination: 22 Member of the Board of Trustees 23 of the State University of New York, College of 9879 1 Environmental Science and Forestry, Curtis H. 2 Bauer, of Jamestown. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 4 any Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 5 Hearing none, the question is on the nomination 6 of Curtis H. Bauer, of Jamestown, New York, to 7 become a member of the Board of Trustees of the 8 State University of New York College of 9 Environmental Science and Forestry. All those 10 in favor of the nomination, signify by saying 11 aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 The nominee is confirmed. 16 Secretary will continue to read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 18 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 19 following bill: 20 Senate Print 7948, by Senator 21 Marcellino, an act to amend the Environmental 22 Conservation Law and others. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9880 1 objection, the bill goes directly to third 2 reading. 3 Senator DeFrancisco, we have a 4 substitution on that bill we'd like to take at 5 this time? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you 7 please make the substitution. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the substitution. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Marcellino moves to discharge from the Committee 12 on Finance Assembly Bill Number 11332 and 13 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 14 Calendar 1779. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 16 Substitution is ordered. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr. 22 President, could we take up calendar -- Bill 23 Number 7948, please. 9881 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the title of Calendar Number 1748. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Mr. 4 President, 7948. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 6 Number 1748 -- Senate Print 7948, and it's 7 Calendar Number 1779. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1779, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 10 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11332, an act 11 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law and 12 others. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Last section. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. (Pause) 16 The bill is high. The bill will 17 be laid aside. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Is there a message 19 from the Governor on this, for this Assembly 20 bill? 21 Mr. President. Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Gold, why do you rise? 9882 1 SENATOR GOLD: Say good morning, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Good 4 morning to you too. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Now, Mr. 6 President, while we're at it, this bill passed 7 the Assembly, I assume if it's high, with a 8 message. Does that message come across with the 9 bill? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold, we're in the same situation we were with 12 the bill we just had before the house that we 13 had to lay aside. We don't of a message on it. 14 SENATOR GOLD: I want to 15 understand, Mr. President, if I could, I just 16 want to understand the rule. Are you ruling, 17 sir, that we may not consider messages of 18 necessity from the Governor unless they are 19 dated on the date that we are considering bills; 20 is that the rule now for all time? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 22 correct. That has been the practice of the 23 house, as I'm told in many years past, and 9883 1 you've had many more years experience than I do, 2 Senator. 3 SENATOR GOLD: That's why - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I remind 5 you sometimes when you're old, you are -- you 6 forget more often than not. 7 SENATOR GOLD: That's why I 8 asked. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 DeFrancisco, we now have a message of necessity 11 at the desk on 1774 which was laid aside. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. Can 13 we return to 1774 and ask that the message be 14 accepted. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Ask the 16 Secretary to read the title. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1774, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 19 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number 11326, 20 an act authorizing the creation of a state debt. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 DeFrancisco. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You say 9884 1 there is a message at the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Move to 4 accept the message. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 6 to accept the message on Calendar Number 1774. 7 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 12 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 13 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 14 section. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 16 call, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Slow roll 18 call has been requested on Senate Calendar 19 Number 1774. Secretary will ring the bells and 20 call the roll slowly. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Alesi. 9885 1 (There was no response. ) 2 Senator Babbush. 3 SENATOR BABBUSH: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 5 (Affirmative indication.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Aye. 7 Senator Connor. 8 (Negative indication. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: No. 10 Senator Cook. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator DeFrancisco. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator DiCarlo. 15 SENATOR DiCARLO: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 Senator Espada. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Farley. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Gold. 9886 1 SENATOR GOLD: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Gonzalez. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Goodman. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator Hannon. 8 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock. 10 SENATOR HOBLOCK: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Hoffmann. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Holland. 15 (There was no audible response. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 19 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 23 (There was no response.) 9887 1 Senator Lack. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Larkin. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 Senator Larkin. 6 (There was no response. ) 7 Senator LaValle. 8 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 Senator Leichter. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 Senator Levy. 14 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Marcellino. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 9888 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Markowitz. 3 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 7 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Montgomery. 10 (There was no response. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 12 SENATOR NANULA: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Nozzolio. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 Senator Onorato. 17 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Oppenheimer. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Padavan. 22 (There was no response. ) 23 Senator Paterson. 9889 1 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 5 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Santiago. 9 (There was no response. ) 10 Senator Seabrook. 11 SENATOR SEABROOK: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sears 13 excused. 14 Senator Seward. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 19 SENATOR SMITH: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 21 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Stachowski. 9890 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Stafford. 4 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky 6 excused. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 8 SENATOR TRUNZO: (Affirmative 9 indication. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 11 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 13 SENATOR VELELLA: (Affirmative 14 indication. ) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: (Negative 19 indication. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will call the absentees. 9891 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 Senator Alesi. 4 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 6 SENATOR COOK: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Gonzalez. 16 (There was no response. ) 17 Senator Hoffmann. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: If I could 19 explain my vote, please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Hoffmann, to explain her vote. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 9892 1 There's a temptation to simply 2 vote yes on this for expediency sake and join 3 the spirit of the hour where there's agreement 4 on so many things after months and months of 5 discord and significant ideological difference, 6 but the people in the central New York area who 7 I represent have indicated to me over and over 8 again that they are worried about the way the 9 state handles its affairs, that they feel 10 troubled by the propensity of the state to spend 11 more than it has and not meet its obligations or 12 to not meet its obligations on time. 13 Well-intentioned as this measure 14 is from an environmentalist perspective and 15 beneficial as it might be to parts of the state 16 that would enjoy the rewards that come from 17 special projects, projects which would accent 18 tourism which we greatly need, projects which 19 would help stimulate local industries related to 20 tourism and local economic development projects 21 which we might tangentially say does fit nicely 22 with an environmental bond act, still do not 23 justify borrowing more than a billion dollars 9893 1 that the state simply does not have right now. 2 Our debt load is all too often 3 ignored when we are addressing our financial 4 responsibilities. We do not have the right to 5 pass debt on to future legislatures or to future 6 generations, and I fear that's what we would be 7 doing. 8 Now, it could be, would be fairly 9 simple for me and I'm sure many of my other 10 colleagues to say I have some philosophical 11 differences but I will let the people of my 12 district decide; but that's not why we're 13 elected. We're supposed to provide leadership 14 on these types of issues, and I don't believe 15 that it would show leadership that is expected 16 of us to simply pass the buck to the voters on 17 this. 18 My position is clear, and I 19 believe I understand the will of the people in 20 the 48th Senate District. Therefore, I can not 21 support this measure. 22 I vote in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9894 1 Hoffmann will be recorded in the negative. 2 Secretary will continue to call the roll 3 slowly. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Lack. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 Senator Larkin. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 11 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 15 yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Montgomery. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 Senator Nozzolio. 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9895 1 Oppenheimer. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Santiago. 7 (There was no response. ) 8 SENATOR GOLD: Detailed 9 statement. 10 Mr. President. Mr. President. 11 Mr. President. Is there anybody up there can 12 hear me? Mr. President. I'll give you three 13 shots. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Abate, did you want to speak? The roll call is 16 still open. How do you wish to be recorded? 17 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You wish 19 to be recorded in the affirmative. I notice 20 you, Senator Lack, will be recorded in the 21 affirmative. 22 SENATOR LACK: Yes. 23 Now, Senator Gold, why do you 9896 1 rise? 2 SENATOR GOLD: I simply wanted a 3 detailed statement, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The roll 5 call -- announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38, nays 7 16. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. Read the detailed statement. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the affirmative on Calendar Number 1774 are: 12 Senators Abate, Alesi, Bruno, DeFrancisco, 13 DiCarlo, Farley, Goodman, Hannon, Hoblock, 14 Holland, Johnson, Kuhl, Lack, Larkin, LaValle, 15 Leibell, Leichter, Levy, Libous, Maltese, 16 Marcellino, Marchi, Maziarz, Nozzolio, 17 Oppenheimer, Padavan, Present, Rath, Saland, 18 Seward, Skelos, Spano, Stafford, Trunzo, Tully, 19 Velella, Volker and Wright. 20 Those recorded in the negative 21 Senators Babbush, Connor, Cook, Dollinger, Gold, 22 Hoffmann, Kruger, Markowitz, Mendez, Nanula, 23 Onorato, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith, Stachowski 9897 1 and Waldon. 2 Senators excused, Senators Sears 3 and Stavisky. 4 Absent: Espada, Gonzalez, 5 Lachman, Montgomery and Santiago. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Bruno. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 10 Would the record please note that Senator 11 Lachman is excused for religious reasons, that 12 he left at the start of the sabbath yesterday 13 and, of course, could not be present because of 14 his religious observance; did not submit to me a 15 written request to be excused but I want the 16 record to note that he has been excused since 17 last night before sundown. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 record will reflect your remarks, Senator 20 Connor, that Senator Lachman was excused. Thank 21 you, Senator Connor. 22 Senator Bruno, we had previously 23 taken up Calendar 1779. We laid the bill aside 9898 1 since the message had not arrived. The message 2 has arrived now, if you'd like to take that bill 3 up. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Could we return 5 to that bill, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read Calendar Number 1779 which was 8 substituted previously. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1779, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 11 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11332, an act 12 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law and 13 others. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 15 to accept the message of necessity at the desk 16 on Calendar Number 1779. All those in favor 17 signify by saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed nay. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 The message is accepted. 22 Any Senator wishing to speak on 23 the bill? Hearing none -- hearing none, the 9899 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 34. This 3 act shall take effect after a chapter of the 4 laws of 1996. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Same vote, same 6 vote as on the last one. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We can do 8 that. Secretary will record the -- if that's 9 all right with the Majority Leader. 10 Senator Skelos, is that all right 11 with you with exception? 12 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will record the same vote as was on 15 Calendar Number 1774. 16 Announce the results. 17 Senator Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Explain my 19 vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Marcellino, to explain his vote on Calendar 22 Number 1779. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah, Mr. 9900 1 President. This -- this is an important bill 2 because in times of - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Marcellino, excuse me just a minute. Let's get 5 a little order in the house. Have a little 6 order in the house, please. Members please take 7 their seats, staff their seats. If you have to 8 have a conversation, please take it out of the 9 chamber. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: I'd like to join 14 you in your effort to get a little order in the 15 chamber so if there are meetings going on, 16 please take them outside of the chamber. We'd 17 like to proceed so that we can listen to the 18 eloquence of Senator Gold and the wisdom of 19 Senator Marcellino. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I appreciate 21 that, sir. 22 Mr. President, may I start? 23 Thank you. 9901 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Marcellino, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 4 President, certainly no one, myself included, 5 the members who voted for this particular 6 legislation, wants to increase debt or place any 7 additional burdens on our already hard-pressed 8 taxpayers, but this legislation puts forth the 9 opportunity to do many jobs and many projects 10 which are in need, deep need, to protect our 11 environment, to protect our air, to protect the 12 water, protect our daily lives, protect our 13 population. 14 It's most important that we do 15 this particular bill because the projects here 16 could not be afforded in many cases by the local 17 municipalities on whom the responsibility would 18 fall. 19 They could not handle the burden 20 individually. This will assist them in doing 21 some very needed landfill closures, incinerator 22 closures, clean water closures, and so forth. 23 It's important that this money be put forward, 9902 1 that this money be obtained so that these 2 particular projects can go forward and so that 3 our environment can be protected and cleaned 4 up. 5 So I urge and I thank those who 6 voted in the positive and I would hope those who 7 voted in the negative would reconsider and, at 8 the appropriate time, urge their constituents to 9 vote for this particular legislation. It is 10 worthwhile. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Marcellino will be recorded in the affirmative. 13 Senator Gold, to explain his 14 vote. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 16 much, Mr. President. 17 Mr. President, I -- I feel that 18 Senator Marcellino's remarks may be very 19 accurate from his point of view and when you say 20 our population and our water, Senator, if it was 21 coming out of your mouth that's accurate and I'm 22 worried about my population and my water, and 23 people in my district, and this bill, while you 9903 1 say it does things that have to be done, are 2 needed, there are a lot of things that have to 3 be done that are needed and if the decision 4 making is going to be political, then we're not 5 taking care of our people, may be taking care of 6 your people. 7 It's interesting to me how many 8 people from around this state are ready to fund 9 things for your people in the amount of $1.7 10 billion. I'm concerned about some real things. 11 I'm concerned about lead, lead poisoning. I'm 12 concerned very much about hazardous waste 13 closures, and I'm concerned about Superfund 14 money running out and areas that don't qualify 15 for Superfund which this bill may not take care 16 of. I'm concerned about the state's commitment 17 to put up land and pay for it for the New York 18 City watershed. 19 So, Senator, I don't think that 20 you said anything that I disagree with if it was 21 coming out of your mouth because from your point 22 of view, I guess you're taking care of some 23 things, but when we say "our" in this chamber, 9904 1 it's a question of whether the arms going out 2 embrace all or a selected few. I vote in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Gold will be recorded in the negative. Announce 6 the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38, nays 8 16. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 14 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 16 meeting of the Rules Committee. Immediate 17 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority 18 Conference Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of 19 the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 20 Room, Room 332. 21 Senator Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 23 can we return to the order of motions and 9905 1 resolutions and adopt the Resolution Calendar, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 4 return to the order of motions and resolutions. 5 Every member has a Resolution Calendar on their 6 desk. The motion is to adopt the Resolution 7 Calendar. All those in favor signify by saying 8 aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The Resolution Calendar is 13 adopted. 14 Senator Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator Maltese 16 would like to open up his resolution regarding 17 Medal of Honor winners, 4131, for any person in 18 the house who would like to go on it. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Holland, as in the past when there are openings 21 up of resolutions which are very meritorious 22 resolutions, we'll put everybody on the 23 resolution with the exception of those people 9906 1 who did not want to be on the resolution. Should 2 we follow that same procedure with regard to 3 this one? 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Seems the right 5 thing to do. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No 7 objection from Senator Paterson and members of 8 the Minority, Senator Holland, we'll put all the 9 members of the chamber on Senator Maltese's 10 resolution honoring the Medal of Honor winners, 11 multi-state Medal of Honor winners, except for 12 those people who do not wish to be on it if they 13 would indicate that desire to the desk. 14 Senator Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Any other 16 housekeeping, Mr. President? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 18 nothing else at the desk at this time, Senator 19 Holland. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Could we stand 21 at ease then awaiting the report of the Rules 22 Committee. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 9907 1 will stand at ease awaiting the report of the 2 Rules Committee. 3 (Whereupon at 11:42 a.m., the 4 Senate stood at ease. ) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 6 will come to order. Chair recognizes Senator 7 Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 9 If we can return to reports of standing 10 committees, I believe there is a report of the 11 Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be 12 read. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 14 the order of reports of standing committees. 15 Secretary will read the report of 16 the Rules Committee. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 18 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 19 following bills: 20 Senate Print 4880, by Senator 21 Hoblock, an act to amend the Education Law, in 22 relation to instruction on the subject of human 23 rights; 9908 1 6955B, by Senator Holland, an act 2 to establish a quality incentive payment 3 program; 4 7493A, by Senator Spano, an act 5 to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 6 prohibiting the use of state funds; 7 7951, by Senator Bruno, an act to 8 amend the Workers' Compensation Law and others, 9 in relation to extending the effectiveness of 10 certain provisions; 11 7954, by Senator Hannon, an act 12 in relation to enacting the New York Health Care 13 Reform Act of 1996; 14 7955, by the Senate Committee on 15 Rules, an act to amend a Chapter of Laws of 1996 16 amending the Workers' Compensation Law; 17 7956, by the Senate Committee on 18 Rules, an act to amend the Public Health Law, 19 the Mental Hygiene Law, and the Social Services 20 Law; 21 7957, by the Senate Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in 23 relation to collateral; and 9909 1 Assembly Print 11341, by the 2 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 3 Public Health Law, in relation to patient 4 services payments. 5 All bills ordered directly for 6 third reading. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 move to accept the report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to accept the report of the Rules 12 Committee. All those in favor, signify by 13 saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The Rules Report is accepted. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 if we could take up Senate Supplemental No. 1 20 noncontroversial. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Members 22 should have Supplemental Calendar No. 1 on their 23 desk, together with the bills that are on that 9910 1 calendar. 2 Secretary will read the 3 noncontroversial reading of Supplemental 4 Calendar No. 1. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock 6 moves to discharge from the Committee on 7 Education Assembly Bill Number 6510 and 8 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 9 Calendar 1780. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 12 the title. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1780, by Assemblyman Crowley, Assembly Print 15 6510, an act to amend the Education Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 9911 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland 4 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 5 Assembly Bill Number 9798C and substitute it for 6 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1781. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 9 the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1781, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg, 12 Assembly Print 9798C, an act to establish a 13 quality incentive payment program. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 22 Calendar Number 1781. All those in favor, 23 signify by saying aye. 9912 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Message is accepted. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano 9 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 10 Assembly Bill Number 8058A and substitute it for 11 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1782. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 13 Substitution ordered. Secretary will read the 14 title. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1782, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 17 Assembly Print 8058A, an act to amend the Labor 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 9913 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Wrong bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is the 3 lay aside withdrawn, Senator Leichter? 4 Secretary will read the last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 15 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 16 Assembly Bill Number 11331 and substitute it for 17 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1783. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 19 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 20 the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1783, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Bill Number 11331, an act to amend the 9914 1 Workers' Compensation Law and others. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 5 message at the desk? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is, 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 11 Calendar Number 1783. All those in favor, 12 signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Opposed, nay. 15 (There was no response.) 16 The message is accepted. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon 21 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 22 Assembly Bill 11330 and substitute it for the 23 identical Third Reading Calendar 1784. 9915 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 2 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 3 the title. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1784, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 6 Assembly Bill Number 11330. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 is there a message at the desk? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 15 Calendar Number 1784. All those in favor, 16 signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The message is accepted. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 9916 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 2 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 3 Assembly Bill Number 11338 and substitute it for 4 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1785. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 7 the title. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1785, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 10 Assembly Print 11338, an act to amend the 11 Chapter of the Laws of 1996. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 15 message at the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 20 Calendar Number 1785. All those in favor, 21 signify by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 Opposed, nay. 9917 1 (There was no response.) 2 Message is accepted. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 7 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 8 Assembly Bill Number 11329 and substitute it for 9 identical Third Reading Calendar 1786. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Substitution is ordered. The bill is high. The 12 bill will be laid aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1787, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 15 Print 7957, an act to amend the Insurance Law, 16 in relation to collateral. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 18 is there a message at the desk? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is, 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 9918 1 Calendar Number 1787. All those in favor, 2 signify by saying aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Opposed, nay. 5 (There was no response.) 6 The message is accepted. 7 Secretary will read the last 8 section. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1788, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print 11341, an act to amend the Public 15 Health Law. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 19 Senator Skelos, that completes 20 the reading of the noncontroversial calendar. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 at this time, if we could take up Calendar 23 Number 1781. 9919 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read Calendar Number 1781, by Senator 3 Holland. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1781, by Member of the Assembly Harenberg, 6 Assembly Print A.9798C substituted earlier 7 today, an act to establish a quality incentive 8 payment program. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Holland, an explanation of Calendar Number 1781, 11 Senate Print 6955B, which was substituted 12 earlier today, has been asked for by Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: This is a bill 15 to back up approximately $2 million in the 16 budget to create a quality incentive payment 17 program for adult homes in the state of New 18 York. If the adult homes run efficiently, meet 19 all the requirements, the clients are taken care 20 of well, then this $2 million will be 21 distributed to those homes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter. 9920 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 2 Holland would yield. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Holland, do you yield? 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry, you 8 refer to an appropriation of $2 million. That's 9 not in this bill. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: No, sir. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: The 2 million 12 has been appropriated. 13 SENATOR HOLLAND: Right. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: This provides 15 as to the manner in which the money is to be - 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Correct. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- is to be 18 used. If you'll continue to yield, Senator. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Does this bill 21 also provide that for-profit corporations that 22 have publicly-traded shares may own these adult 23 homes? 9921 1 SENATOR HOLLAND: I am told it 2 does not, Senator. No. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 7 act shall take effect in 30 days. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 16 take up Calendar Number 1784, by Senator Hannon. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the Calendar 1784, by Senator Hannon. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 20 Number 1784, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 21 Assembly Print 11330, substituted earlier today, 22 an act in relation to enacting the New York 23 Health Care Reform Act of 1996. 9922 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4 there will be an immediate conference of the 5 Minority in Room 314, the Minority Conference 6 Room. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 8 will be an immediate meeting - 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe we're 11 on debate so if we can continue the debate. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Hannon, an explanation of Calendar Number 1784 16 has been requested by Senator Paterson. 17 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 18 this is the Health Care Reform Act of 1996. 19 This is a measure that will take, in the main, 20 the health care system of this state on to the 21 brink of the 21st Century because it lasts until 22 December 31st, 1999. 23 It is what I believe to be 9923 1 implementation of a very balanced, moderate 2 approach to make sure that all of our 3 constituents will be able to ensure quality and 4 accessible health care. 5 As part and parcel of this, we 6 have accompanying legislation, part of which has 7 already passed this house in regard to the bill 8 of rights and managed care, another bill that is 9 further down the calendar in regard to Medicaid 10 managed care, and this, of course, is the 11 centerpiece which has taken a great amount of 12 work by a great amount of talented people to 13 bring us to a stage where a half century old 14 system of having everything in the health care 15 system set by the state will come to an end. 16 Effective January 1, 1997, 17 third-party private payors will move to 18 negotiated rates for hospital care. We will 19 continue the current rate system for the 20 Medicaid fee for service while the rest of 21 Medicaid that's under managed care will move 22 accordingly. 23 We do something in terms of going 9924 1 to deregulation that really no other state has 2 done, because we accompany that deregulation 3 with a substantial commitment to what has been 4 called the public good of this state, the 5 commitment towards indigent care through a bad 6 debt and charity care pool, the commitment 7 towards a high quality graduate medical 8 education. We do that through a separate GME 9 pool. We do it through commitments for child 10 health, expanding that up to the age of 18. We 11 do it through the creation of provider service 12 networks, all in order to offer consumers and 13 purchasers new options for accessibility for 14 health care. 15 We create a large number and 16 continue a large number of initiatives for 17 private business insurance for regional -- on a 18 regional basis, for public hospitals, 19 catastrophic health care expense program, 20 ambulatory services. We continue a borrowing 21 program for hospitals in high volume indigent 22 care service areas. We establish a program for 23 expansion of cancer detection and treatment 9925 1 services in underserved areas. We take a task 2 force on quality guidelines and expand that so 3 that we can have measurements, measurements of 4 HMOs, of hospitals and other provider services, 5 to do it in conjunction with the experts in the 6 field wherever they may be in terms of 7 clinicians or hospitals or HMOs. 8 Making this many changes all at 9 once would in some people's eyes seem to be too 10 much, but this is something that has to be 11 done. We're the last of two states in the 12 nation to have total rate setting, and we must 13 move on in order to make sure that the needs of 14 the next century are addressed by this state. 15 This is an implementation of thousands of hours 16 by hundreds of people begun by a task force by 17 this Governor who had the sense and I think 18 common sense recognition that it had to be 19 addressed, picked up by a number of people on 20 his temporary task force. Enormous numbers of 21 members of the Executive Branch, of the Assembly 22 and of this house, have spent a lot of time 23 trying to make sure that what will come about is 9926 1 something that we can all be proud of, and I 2 would move the bill, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 if Senator Hannon would yield for a question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Hannon, do you yield to a question from Senator 9 Paterson? 10 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 14 Hannon, certainly no offense, we're conferencing 15 the bill. We have only seen the bill in the 16 last two hours, and I have only seen the bill in 17 the last five minutes, so if you would yield to 18 a question, there are just a couple of areas I 19 want to see where we've come out on them in 20 negotiations. 21 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, I said I 22 would yield. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 9927 1 Graduate medical education, Senator, maybe I 2 missed that in your remarks just then. How are 3 we on graduate medical education? 4 SENATOR HANNON: We have done it 5 a number of ways. We create a pool which shall 6 be in the approximate order of $1.385 billion to 7 finance graduate medical education in the state, 8 both direct and indirect cost. We set aside 10 9 percent of that to hospitals and consortia that 10 would achieve some graduate medical education 11 reform goals. 12 We fund the pool through 13 contributions by private third-party payors in 14 relation to the individuals covered for hospital 15 care. We do it in a carefully ordered way so as 16 to steer clear of any mileposts that the federal 17 ERISA or provider tax system would erect and to 18 steer clear of the mileposts that any type of 19 other states' taxes in regard to insurance 20 companies would erect. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Senator, 9928 1 if you will continue to yield. 2 There will be no encumbrance to 3 the geographic locations that have high rates of 4 graduate medical education occurring inside 5 them? 6 SENATOR HANNON: I presume by the 7 means of encumbrance you mean that there should 8 not be a shift in the costs born and raised in 9 any given area. What we have tried to do is to 10 preserve as best possible -- and probably we 11 have done that. I believe we have done that 12 with every assurance that the monies raised in 13 one area are kept in that area, that there are 14 no cost shifts, that there is no regional 15 redistribution, and that the goods in one area 16 stay there. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 20 Senator Hannon. Your interpretation of my 21 answer is correct and your answer is quite 22 helpful. If you would yield for another 23 question. 9929 1 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, in 5 the area of uncompensated care, care for the 6 indigent where the hospitals will be showing a 7 willingness to provide that care, what 8 assistance will they get from our budget on 9 that? 10 SENATOR HANNON: Well, in order 11 to really provide a reasonable transition, we as 12 a body in the bill that we passed last night 13 felt that the cuts that had been proposed in the 14 budget were far too deep and we reinstated many 15 of them. We feel that makes the rest of the 16 hospital system very viable. 17 In this bill, we create an 18 indigent care pool. We finance that in regard 19 to a mechanism, in regard to procedures that are 20 done with alternates to direct payments into 21 pools, and we think that we have provided an 22 adequate distribution of those funds to the 23 various different types of hospitals throughout 9930 1 this state, once again being quite mindful as to 2 not upset the regional distributions that are 3 there. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 7 Senator Hannon. If you will continue to yield, 8 just an observation first. 9 From what we have been able to 10 look at, that seems quite right. The 11 restorations are almost complete. That's really 12 very encouraging in that particular area since 13 there are so many individuals that don't have 14 any real protection in terms of health care in 15 the state. 16 The Child Health Plus area which 17 you referred to earlier in your opening remarks, 18 can you tell me a little bit more about that? 19 SENATOR HANNON: We expand the 20 amount of coverage in a very substantial way and 21 expand the amount of money available for that in 22 a very substantial way. We take the current age 23 eligibility, from birth to age 14, and bring it 9931 1 to from birth to age 19 as well as adding 2 hospital inpatient care to the current primary 3 and preventive care. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. If Senator would continue to yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Hannon, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR PATERSON: What about 9 some of the services, such as eye care, dental 10 care? I don't see them as part of the 11 restorations, and they weren't really part of 12 the original proposal. Is there any plan to 13 provide those types of services to children? 14 SENATOR HANNON: This house had 15 included that in the NYPHRM bill that we 16 passed. Upon more detailed and focused analysis 17 of the costs, that would have added more than we 18 could afford in regard to the public good 19 financing; and while we look upon that as highly 20 desirable, the information that came to us 21 subsequent to our passage of our NYPHRM bill 22 points out that as we do this Health Care Reform 23 Act, that's something, while desirable, is not 9932 1 something we can afford. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 3 you're saying that was part of the original 4 proposal from this house. But with respect to 5 the financing, if I get this correct, when it 6 came down to the final negotiations, we didn't 7 have the resources to provide it? 8 SENATOR HANNON: That's correct. 9 The provisions for dental and vision were 10 estimated, and when we got down to the focus and 11 had the better numbers available and the better 12 experience rating to be in the order of $20 13 million, and that was not something that fit 14 into the plan that we could come up with. 15 We have, I will tell you, made 16 substantial commitment already, almost to the 17 tune of an increased $100 million to this plan, 18 and the point was -- the judgment was made that 19 that was what we could afford at the current 20 time. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 22 Senator. I actually did give you credit for 23 it. The fact that we can't provide the full 9933 1 services in such a valuable area I think is 2 unfortunate. 3 If the Senator will continue to 4 yield. With respect to the financing of SLIPA 5 hospitals and the reimbursements, can you tell 6 me how that is going to be set up? 7 SENATOR HANNON: There are two 8 parts to the SLIPA hospitals. One is in regard 9 to the public hospitals, and there is a separate 10 set-aside that I think essentially hospitals 11 such as Nassau and Erie, Westchester and HHC in 12 New York City will continue in the first year to 13 get their full shot. The rest of the SLIPA 14 hospitals it turns out, interestingly, as we put 15 a real incentive into the computation of bad 16 debt and charity care, real incentive to only 17 pay for actual bad debt and charity care, the 18 SLIPA hospitals, in general, did better with the 19 caveat that all of these numbers are not 20 something that are truly subject to mathematical 21 100 percent precision because needs change, 22 populations change and federal definitions 23 change even more. 9934 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 2 Senator. If Senator will yield to another 3 question? 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: With all of 6 this, in terms of the restructuring of the 7 hospital economic system, would we be able to 8 prevent in the future at least -- the future 9 meaning the next fiscal year -- the downsizing 10 of hospitals, the laying off of workers and 11 specifically to that end, do we have any 12 provision in legislation for the retraining of 13 workers or certainly reevaluating the skills of 14 workers, putting them in other areas we may have 15 closed off. 16 SENATOR HANNON: To get to your 17 last part of the question first - 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Right. 19 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, we do. We 20 have made some substantial commitments to worker 21 retraining. Interestingly, part of that is 22 pegged to the state's attainment of a managed 23 care waiver from the federal government, 9935 1 something that is well overdue in regard to its 2 action by Washington in a very surprising way, 3 and we need that in order to have things to 4 retrain people for. Doing any type of 5 retraining without that is silly because the 6 whole direction of our health care system is 7 towards this managed care, so we need that in 8 place. 9 I'm sorry, the first part of your 10 question? 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Downsizing. 12 SENATOR HANNON: Oh, downsizing. 13 When it comes to downsizing, many people 14 especially in the media would like to 15 characterize it as a black or white situation. 16 You're either going to have downsizing or not; 17 you can keep hospitals open or not. In reality, 18 this bill comes about because there is great 19 changes already in health care in the United 20 States, and the degree to which we use hospitals 21 in this state is far out of proportion to any 22 other states, be they comparable states in terms 23 of our population and geographic and urban 9936 1 situations or whether they be totally different, 2 so that what we need to do is to focus our 3 financial resources into different arenas, into 4 more outpatient clinics, comprehensive health 5 care centers, primary care; and hospitals 6 themselves, as a practical matter, have begun 7 that. 8 So will there be downsizing? You 9 can say, yes, there will be downsizing in 10 hospitals, but it's interesting when you look at 11 the numbers what happened just within the last 12 12 months in this state. The hospitals had some 13 downsizing but the rest of the health care 14 industry had an increase. So that we do have 15 more demand for health care. It's just a 16 question of where it's placed. Some people will 17 say, well, look. If you pass this, you will 18 have hospitals closing. I would only point out 19 two different things in that regard. One is 20 while the current system -- while the current 21 NYPHRM system had been in existence, we've had 22 40 hospitals close. My point is, whether or not 23 you have this, you will have hospitals close. 9937 1 Now, is this going to cause it? 2 I don't believe whatsoever it's going to cause 3 it. I will tell you since we passed our 4 proposal in regard to what we call the NYPHRM - 5 the Senate proposal -- there have been four 6 major changes in this state. Buffalo, three 7 hospitals have gotten together as networks. We 8 have Beth Israel and Long Island Jewish have 9 announced a merger. We have Mount Sinai and New 10 York University Hospital have announced a 11 merger, and there has been -- the first thing 12 you do when you talk to somebody in the field is 13 you ask what's changed today. 14 So we have had vast changes. So 15 I think what we're going to do is enable the 16 natural progression and progress that health 17 care is taking to go forward. We're not going 18 to have artificial impediments. We're not going 19 to have artificial incentives to go sideways or 20 to go backwards. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Senator. 23 Mr. President, on the bill. 9938 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson, on the bill. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: I think 4 Senator Hannon is correct that the structuring 5 of health care may be changing and so the 6 statistics with respect to hospitals may be 7 somewhat inaccurate, because some of the health 8 care that they provide may be antiquated by new 9 and different procedures. Certainly the 10 lessening of the use of hospitals and probably 11 the greater use of other types of health care 12 facilities in particular areas is probably the 13 evolution of where the industry is going. 14 Please recognize that I represent 15 a district, Harlem and Washington Heights and 16 East Harlem, that has lost eight major hospitals 17 in the last score of years, hospitals such as 18 Flower Hospital, Fifth Avenue Hospital, Arthur 19 Logan, Knickerbocker Hospital, Joint Center for 20 Diseases, Mother Cabrini, and Francis Delafield 21 Hospital, have all disappeared in terms of the 22 service that they provide, and we are subject to 23 different types of rumors about merging of 9939 1 facilities between St. Luke's and Roosevelt 2 Hospital, the possible and then canceled merger 3 between St. Luke's Hospital and Columbia 4 Presbyterian, the possible closure of Harlem 5 Hospital, and a bond act that we had to secure 6 in 1988 to save North General Hospital which is 7 the largest employer of people in the Harlem 8 community; and so in an area where health care 9 is of such great need and of such great value to 10 the constituents there, there is just a concern, 11 not necessarily that the hospitals remain open 12 or remain whole or even remain in the fashion 13 that they were before but, as Senator Hannon 14 says, that there be the type of health care 15 provided that exists even if they come from 16 community health centers and the like. 17 On the legislation itself, it 18 appears that a great deal of what did not exist 19 in the Governor's original bill on December 15 20 now exists because of hard negotiation and firm 21 points of view by those who really understand 22 the necessity of health care. It may not be an 23 excuse for the elongated process or the delay in 9940 1 the passage of this budget, but it certainly 2 justifies the feeling of those who couldn't go 3 forward until there was a piece of legislation 4 in this area that we could finally live with. 5 We are certainly feeling as if we 6 have to congratulate all those who have hung in 7 there to regain so many services that mean so 8 much to so many who were deprived in the 9 industry and deprived in the ability to receive 10 decent and affordable health care, and it is the 11 reason that only until now we really could feel 12 that -- an agreement that may not represent or 13 fulfill all the needs but will certainly be a 14 lot better than was originally promised six 15 months ago. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, will the sponsor yield to a couple 20 questions? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Hannon, do you yield? 23 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 9941 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 yields. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: First of all, 4 Senator, let me congratulate you. You have 5 worked awful hard on this project for the better 6 part of I would say six months, but it's 7 probably double that and beyond. Since the time 8 you have been chairman of the Senate Health 9 Committee, I know that this has been an issue 10 near and dear to your heart. I congratulate you 11 in getting it to this point. 12 We may disagree about aspects of 13 where we have finally come to and where we're 14 going, but certainly you and your staff deserve 15 a great deal of congratulations for a piece of 16 work that is monumental in its scope and, as you 17 properly point out, consumed hundreds if not 18 thousands of hours. So let me start with that 19 background. 20 Through you, Mr. President, one 21 question that I want to ask. You mentioned 22 something about artificial incentives in the 23 system. Aren't we really putting an artificial 9942 1 disincentive in the system if we're going do 2 finance this through a tax on the hospitals? 3 And my follow-up question to 4 that, Senator, is: Is the consequence of this, 5 if the assessment against the hospitals that's 6 used to finance this tool, if it's successful, 7 it will drive down hospitals' utilization, very 8 costly hospital utilization, but it will also 9 result in a smaller assessment being paid into 10 the pool each year; and then my question is if 11 we have less going into the pool but rising 12 need, how do we cover the gap? 13 SENATOR HANNON: Your point is 14 well taken in the sense that that would be the 15 common sense approach to looking at this 16 mechanism. In this case, however, the answer is 17 to take you away from that intuitive approach 18 and to point out that what we're doing by 19 raising the money for the public goods is only 20 to have a nominal levy on the hospitals and put 21 that nominal levy at a very high percentage, 22 thereby encouraging people to pay directly into 23 pools, which we really feel is the actual 9943 1 financing mechanism, skipping entirely the 2 health care providers that otherwise would be 3 subject to it. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: When you say 5 people pay directly to the pools, you are 6 talking about the insurance carriers, the Blues, 7 employer groups, making direct payments into the 8 pool and, therefore, not doing it through the 9 other method which would be to simply follow the 10 current pattern of having physicians refer to 11 hospitals and then have the bill that the 12 hospital charges to the insurer reflect the 8.6; 13 and maybe just clarify for me what that final 14 percentage was that was worked out? 15 SENATOR HANNON: In regard to the 16 bad debt and charity care, it's approximately 17 8.5. That hasn't been -- the point is that it 18 would be at the payor's election to go directly 19 into the pools, thereby skipping all of the 20 requirements that the providers, which is an 21 expanded base from the current, would have to 22 pay. I would point out that any regard to an 23 allowance or a levy that's in the law is simply 9944 1 a continuation in that regard of what's there 2 now. It's a continuation on a different base 3 because the current base is a fixed rate. The 4 new base would be a negotiated rate. But we're 5 not enacting anything new in that regard. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 7 through you, Mr. President, if the chairman of 8 the Health Committee will yield. 9 I just want to make sure I 10 understand. If there's fewer referrals to the 11 hospitals, then there will be a smaller 12 assessment paid into the pools from the 13 hospitals. That, as I understand it, is the 14 incentive that drives the reduction in hospital 15 utilization which you and I have discussed 16 before has really been the problem in this 17 state, is the utilization number has been too 18 high. So what we're trying to do is reduce 19 utilization by a common method that government 20 has used in the past, which is to tax the 21 activity and, therefore, discourage it. We do 22 that through the assessment, but if we work - 23 if it succeeds and utilization declines, then 9945 1 there would be less cash put into the pool. Is 2 it my understanding that then as part of this 3 process, the system having worked, we will then 4 go to payors and say it's worked but we still 5 have a growing need. We need you to make 6 voluntary payments into the pool to make sure 7 that we have enough cash to cover the growing 8 need? And if so, how do we do that in a 9 negotiated rate setting? 10 SENATOR HANNON: I don't believe 11 that will happen. Nobody here, however, has a 12 total crystal ball but I will share with you why 13 I don't think that will happen. We have taken 14 the current allowances on inpatient care, and 15 that's where they are, only expanded to not only 16 inpatient care but also to comprehensive 17 diagnostic and treatment centers as well as 18 ambulatory surgical services and free-standing 19 clinical labs, broadening the base 20 substantially. So that as a natural progression 21 towards the more primary care, nonhospital care, 22 takes place that we cover those changes in order 23 to continue driving money for the goods that we 9946 1 feel ought to be covered. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again, 3 through you, Mr. President, if the chairman will 4 continue to yield. 5 I understand that broadening. I 6 support that broadening, otherwise we would be 7 really punishing inpatient/outpatient care in 8 the hospital and we would see enormous growth in 9 those ambulatory surgical centers, the 10 diagnostic and treatment centers. 11 My follow-up question is, what 12 happens if given the free market's ability to 13 find the little holes -- the loopholes that may 14 be left in this statute -- what happens if all 15 of a sudden doctors' offices and other types of 16 facilities suddenly acquire some kind of 17 surgical ability, some kind of surgical 18 capability, and we spawn an industry that is now 19 outside the taxed scope? My question is, don't 20 we still run into the risk? Don't we still run 21 the problem that we will have declining payments 22 into the pool in the face of growing need? 23 SENATOR HANNON: As I said, our 9947 1 crystal ball is murky, but already, within hours 2 of the main bill, we have another one on the 3 calendar, 1788, that is technical corrections. 4 I don't know how to forecast what the Health 5 Care Reform Act of 1999 will be. We just know 6 there are enormous changes that take place. 7 When we get to the managed care bill, Medicaid 8 managed care bill, we simply couldn't extend 9 what this Legislature had done just five years 10 ago because of enormous changes in the way the 11 delivery systems were. 12 So we may have to make 13 adjustments, but to the extent that I believe 14 this is reasonable and balanced and tries to be 15 equitable in all types of the providers so we 16 get good services for our patients, I think it's 17 a reasonable approach. We'll just have to see 18 what happens in the future. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I can 20 buy that. 21 Mr. President, if I can just 22 follow up with a couple more questions. 23 Mr. Chairman, you know that I've 9948 1 raised the issue of the pool and how the pooling 2 arrangement works, and my concern has been that 3 the issue of whether we have a statewide pool - 4 that all the providers would pay into a 5 statewide pool that would then distribute the 6 bad debt and charity care assets on the basis of 7 a statewide distribution. I know that in the 8 bill this house passed, in our version, an 9 earlier version of this bill, we had regional 10 pooling devices that would allow communities, 11 give an incentive to communities, to solve their 12 own problem vis-a-vis both graduate medical 13 education and bad debt and charity care. 14 I want to make sure I understand 15 this. Could you tell me how that system works 16 in this final bill? Is it a statewide pool or 17 is it a regional pool? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger, could I interrupt just a minute. 20 It's getting extremely noisy in here, and 21 regardless of whether anybody in here wants to 22 listen to your debate, the stenographer has an 23 obligation and a responsibility to record it, 9949 1 and she's indicated to the desk that she can not 2 hear the debate. The noise is too loud. So 3 could we please keep it down. If you have 4 conversations, take them out of the chamber. 5 Let's let the debate continue. 6 Thank you for the interruption. 7 Please continue, Senator Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I assume the 9 chairman of the Health Committee understands the 10 question. It's an issue we've discussed a 11 number of times. 12 SENATOR HANNON: What we have 13 done -- I don't think we call it -- I do not 14 believe we still call it regional pools, but 15 what we have done is to make sure that the money 16 for bad debt and charity care that is raised 17 upstate stays upstate, same percentages. Money 18 that's raised in New York City stays in New York 19 City, and money raised in Long Island stays in 20 Long Island, and we have less in the current 21 cost shifts between those three regions, so we 22 have narrowed that. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you 9950 1 again, Mr. President. 2 There was a provision in the 3 earlier bill that we did that would have 4 specifically impacted the communities that I 5 represent, that is, would have allowed local 6 communities to bring forth plans to deal with 7 both the GME and the bad debt and charity care 8 pool. Is that provision still in the final 9 bill, Mr. President? 10 SENATOR HANNON: It is, and 11 refined and honed, but it is still substantially 12 there. It's called the Regional Demonstrations 13 for Financing Public Goods, and we allow the 14 hospitals and payors to collaborate on regional 15 models for public goods financing. It's subject 16 to state approval and then the design, and it 17 would be specifically for Monroe County, which 18 visits to the county understand the long 19 history, individual health care initiatives 20 there, collaborative efforts throughout the 21 county, and we feel that they will probably be 22 coming forward with their own proposals and that 23 would be something the Legislature, the 9951 1 Executive, would be receptive to. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Two final 3 questions, Mr. President, again, through you. 4 One is the issue of the 5 uncompensated care. I know there is about $738 6 to 750 million that will be taken out of the 7 projected assessment-created pool that will be 8 used to pay for uncompensated care. My 9 understanding is that there have been estimates 10 of the total uncompensated need in this state 11 which run to the vicinity of about $1.2 billion, 12 leaving somewhere between $450 million and $500 13 million as a current gap between what would be 14 reimbursed to the hospitals and what the current 15 need is; and my further understanding is that 16 under the current system, depending on how much 17 uncompensated care a hospital takes, they get a 18 proportional payment, proportional dollars from 19 the bad debt and charity care pool. 20 My question is, how does it work 21 in a negotiated rate system if -- since you're 22 in essence cutting the fat out of the other 23 rates that the hospitals have had, how do you 9952 1 pay for that additional $500 million in 2 uncompensated need, assuming it's there? 3 SENATOR HANNON: One doesn't know 4 if it's there. You look at the different 5 computations in the current system and you see 6 enormous variations even in the same institution 7 year to year. You do know that the current 8 system has incentives for the financial arm of a 9 hospital to put all sorts of costs into the 10 outpatient clinics in creating greater bad 11 debt. We do not know -- in fact, I have seen 12 other estimates that's in the Governor's 13 Temporary Task Force on the Reform Act that the 14 total amount of uninsured is about $4 billion. 15 The difficulty here is getting 16 good accurate measurements, good accurate 17 measurements which are part of the smaller task 18 force provisions that are at the end of this 19 bill which I hope would be forthcoming. One of 20 the other things is that whenever you set up to 21 pay for certain uncompensated care, you actually 22 create incentives for people to get into that; 23 you create incentives sometimes for employers 9953 1 not to provide insurance coverage, thereby 2 making that need even greater. 3 So the cost shifting that goes on 4 is a phenomenon that we still have to contend 5 with. The best thing I can think of is what we 6 tried to do with this, frankly, compared to any 7 other state, enormous amount of support in 8 regard to uncompensated care, an enormous amount 9 of support in regard to graduate medical 10 education, and then looking at the rest of the 11 financing stream to institutions is we provide a 12 solid bedrock of support to these institutions 13 so that, as we grapple with the rest of the 14 questions of the uninsured that needs to be 15 addressed and quality care that needs to be 16 addressed, that we have a good basis for going 17 forward. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. I'm 19 willing to accept that. 20 One final question, Mr. 21 President. 22 Senator, you know in my 23 discussions about this bill in the whole health 9954 1 care reform debate, one of the bottom line 2 questions for me is, do we end up with a 3 healthier New York? We end up with a less 4 expensive health care system. But do we end up 5 with a healthier New York population? 6 And it seems to me that all that 7 we do should be tested against that measure, 8 that ultimate measure. I believe, as I think 9 you do, that this bill will drive our cost out 10 of the system. The question is does it also 11 drive out quality care? 12 And I guess my question to you, 13 and you have been closer to this than I have - 14 although certainly you have been good to me in 15 giving me information, your staff has been, in 16 helping me understand this. But someone said to 17 you, as I say to you now, will New Yorkers be 18 healthier after this bill passes and becomes 19 law? 20 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What do you 22 believe? 23 SENATOR HANNON: I fully believe 9955 1 that with the initiatives in the legislation 2 here which have been a collaborative effort 3 through all parts of this government that we 4 will have a better health care system through 5 this for the hospitals, through the Medicaid 6 managed care proposal that we'll have in a few 7 minutes, hopefully, through the general managed 8 care provisions we have already done, and 9 through the substantial work we did in the 10 budget. I totally believe that the needs of 11 this state in terms of health care are 12 increasing, if only because the baby boomers are 13 getting over 50. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Absolutely. 15 SENATOR HANNON: And when that 16 happens, the needs of -- incidences of need for 17 medical services increases, so that whatever we, 18 quote, "save," in health care I believe has to 19 be put back into health care itself because 20 we're going to have ever-expanding needs as the 21 baby boomers age out. 22 I would say one thing I can be 23 certain of, though, is for the hundreds of 9956 1 people who have worked on this bill, when we 2 pass it, their health will be much healthier. 3 (Laughter.) 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Dollinger, on the bill. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is an 9 enormously complicated piece of legislation. I 10 guess I now understand why President Clinton - 11 when he tried to do it at the federal level, it 12 was a thousand pages. It's up to 140. I know 13 this is a very complicated issue, and Senator 14 Hannon I think is absolutely correct. This 15 comes down to a calculation of the future that 16 may be very difficult for us all to predict, and 17 that is, what happens when you put in a system 18 that has incentives, that has disincentives, 19 that alters the fee-for-service system, which I 20 think we all recognize we need to abandon -- but 21 what happens when you change those incentives 22 and create the possibility of reducing 23 utilization, of saving us money without 9957 1 sacrificing quality, and while the overall 2 impact of this is largely unknown? I think it's 3 difficult to predict how it's going to finally 4 all shake out. I wish in that respect we had 5 more time, that we could establish a chain of 6 six months. I guess we're going to have six 7 months in coming, but a time in which we can 8 evaluate from the providers' point of view, go 9 back out to our constituencies and say, "Here's 10 what we think the right thing to do is. Here's 11 what we're prepared to embark on. What are the 12 kinds of changes that may be necessary?" 13 There is always a watershed 14 moment in one of these progressions. This may 15 be a watershed moment, but I think it's a system 16 that we're still going to have to keep our 17 finger on the pulse and as that pulse quickens 18 or slows, we're going to have to tinker with 19 this system again. 20 I am going to end up voting for 21 this bill. I think there's some good things in 22 it. I think the expansion of the Child Health 23 Plus, some initiatives that give us real 9958 1 opportunity. But recognize, everyone, that the 2 issues that surround health care, although this 3 may propel them a great deal forward, I'm not 4 quite sure we're still at our goal of making a 5 healthier New York, and I certainly commit 6 myself as long as I'm on the Health Committee to 7 continue to try to progress us down that path. 8 But I, for one, will keep a very firm finger on 9 the pulse to see how the heart is beating in New 10 York in the future. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Leichter, did you wish to speak on the bill? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I yield to 14 Senator Abate. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before 16 Senator Abate, Senator Saland, you indicated a 17 desire to speak on the bill. 18 Senator Saland. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 20 would Senator Hannon yield, please? 21 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Hannon, do you yield to Senator Saland? 9959 1 The Senator yields. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Hannon, 3 I'm looking at page 69 of your bill, the section 4 that deals with professional education pool 5 funding, and I apologize if you may have been 6 asked this question. I came into the chamber 7 near the end of your debate with Senator 8 Paterson and sat through your exchange with 9 Senator Dollinger. In that bill, as I 10 understand from the comments that you had made 11 on the floor, I believe your intention is that 12 the respective regions shall effectively see the 13 dollars that are raised for purposes of 14 professional education remain in that region? 15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Or am I 17 misconstruing your comments? 18 SENATOR HANNON: I believe this 19 references an earlier letter you had sent me. 20 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry? 21 SENATOR HANNON: Are you making 22 reference to the contents of a letter you sent 23 me - 9960 1 SENATOR SALAND: Right. 2 SENATOR HANNON: -- about the 3 concerns about the shift. We have not had any 4 shift by embracing a larger region. We are 5 keeping the money that is raised within New York 6 City in New York City. We're keeping money 7 raised in Long Island within Long Island and 8 then the rest of the state together, we're 9 keeping that together. 10 SENATOR SALAND: I noted just 11 that there was a reference to definition of 12 regions, and in trying to locate the appropriate 13 subsection of the bill, I'm not quite sure that 14 those definitions are there in this particular 15 section. It's probably in existing law and 16 hasn't been amended, so I take great comfort in 17 your comments and thank you for your response. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Abate. 21 SENATOR ABATE: Senator Hannon 22 yield to a question? 23 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 9961 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR ABATE: On a prior 4 debate, I had raised some issues around the 5 numbers of uninsured particularly in New York 6 City that come into the New York City hospitals, 7 and that you agreed with me that those numbers 8 are ever increasing; and right now, throughout 9 the state, there are approximately 2.9 million 10 people uninsured. Give or take, I think that's 11 the correct number. 12 Was there any consideration given 13 to developing a trigger mechanism? If the 14 uninsured population in any one region increases 15 beyond a certain percentage, there would be an 16 availability or discussion or formula so that 17 that region could get additional assistance? 18 SENATOR HANNON: Well, I think 19 that would be looking at the problem from the 20 wrong end. I think you have to say why do 21 people become uninsured? And the uninsurance 22 takes place mainly because the coverage ceases 23 to be provided by their employer, so that as we 9962 1 see substantial increases to an employer, 2 especially with those of 50 or less employees, 3 they tend to not offer it because they can't 4 afford it. Their choice is trying to run a 5 business with no benefits or run no business at 6 all. So that what you have to do here is have a 7 reasonable cost to the system. You have to take 8 away the double digit increases that have been 9 taking place to the private employers, and I 10 think that has been the main thrust, and we will 11 be lessening this guaranteed flow from those 12 people into the system. 13 We are going to allow a number of 14 other mechanisms that would encourage these 15 employers to provide coverage through -- one 16 through the pilot programs in regard to health 17 insurance; second, through the ability of the 18 provider service networks so that the providers 19 themselves can band together and figure out how 20 to make efficient delivery and make direct 21 agreements with employers, cutting out the 22 HMOs. Believe me, we don't like that whatsoever 23 but there, right there, you can lower the costs 9963 1 to a substantial number; and then the final part 2 of dealing with this is, right now the current 3 system in regard to indigent care, in regard to 4 money and payments from the bad debt and charity 5 care really have been around too long. People 6 know how to utilize them. They don't truly 7 measure the amount of the uncompensated care, so 8 that we have put changes in to have that so that 9 the actual burden faced by a hospital will tend 10 to be reimbursed to that hospital. 11 SENATOR ABATE: But how do we 12 address the issue where an individual is 13 uninsured, unemployed, and not Medicaid 14 eligible? How do we address that population, 15 if, in fact, that increases over time? 16 SENATOR HANNON: I mean, 17 uninsured, unemployed, not covered by - 18 Medicaid eligible, that's truly a population no 19 one has ever described to me before, and I'm not 20 sure it exists. 21 SENATOR ABATE: We do know it 22 exists just with our dealings with ADAP, that 23 there are people that were - 9964 1 SENATOR HANNON: If you are 2 talking about special groups - 3 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 4 SENATOR HANNON: -- in a number 5 of different areas where we are able to identify 6 people with special needs, we've tried to do 7 that. With regard to ADAP, we have put in a 8 special program that will supplement the 9 additional $9 million that is now coming to this 10 state from the federal government with an 11 additional $12 million. Through your efforts 12 and Senator Goodman's efforts, those are in 13 this. 14 If you go and look in another 15 bill, which is not before us, but will soon be, 16 the Medicaid managed care bill, we have special 17 needs plans in regard to those who are dealing 18 with mental health problems or dealing with AIDS 19 problems, so to an extent you can do that. 20 Frankly, I don't think you can just pluck 21 something out there in vague general terms and 22 say, "What have you done?" 23 Wherever there is something that 9965 1 is identifiable and there is a rational step to 2 get to it, I think we have addressed it. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Just briefly on 4 the bill. I believe that this is a better bill 5 than the original ones that we have looked at. 6 There are a lot of very good people that worked 7 on this bill. 8 Senator Hannon, I want to 9 compliment you that the ADAP funding -- finally, 10 New York State is recognizing that they need to 11 be involved in this very important program. Up 12 until this budget, New York State did not 13 recognize that the AIDS Drug Assistance Program 14 was a state responsibility. This will go a long 15 way in helping many people who are suffering 16 with AIDS, allow them to remain independent, and 17 get vital drugs that will keep their - 18 hopefully elongate and produce quality in their 19 lives. I'm very happy there is money restored 20 to graduate medical education, Child Health Plus 21 was expanded, and there's continued funding for 22 SLIPA and financially distressed hospitals. 23 But as Senator Dollinger has 9966 1 said, I'm still concerned about the New York 2 City hospitals. They have enormous needs, and I 3 hope that NYPHRM will allow them to address 4 these needs, and along with many of my 5 colleagues we're going to be closely monitoring 6 the impacts and effects of NYPHRM. 7 I will be, though, supporting 8 this bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Leichter, did you wish to speak? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I will explain 12 my vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 Senators Paterson and Dollinger and Abate have 9967 1 made really the points that I wanted to make, 2 but I think it's important to emphasize that, 3 here again, we had to respond to what was really 4 a "scorched earth" policy on the part of the 5 second floor in regard to hospitals and health 6 care and a lot of other issues where this 7 Legislature has had to make radical changes in 8 the Governor's program as was, of course, done 9 in the budget. 10 I would say out of the 11 convoluted, sausage-making process which we call 12 a budget-making process that this bill came out 13 probably better than most others and shows what 14 can be done by the Legislature working in a 15 somewhat nonpartisan political manner, and I 16 want to certainly acknowledge the work that was 17 done by Senator Hannon as other members have and 18 also by my Assemblyman, Assembly member Richard 19 Gottfried, the chair of the Assembly Health 20 Committee. 21 I think what we have here is a 22 bill we can live with, a bill that recognizes 23 not only that the health industry is terribly 9968 1 important for the welfare of New Yorkers but 2 it's also incredibly important for the economy 3 of the state of New York, and the Governor's 4 original proposal which would have caused 5 numerous hospitals particularly in urban areas 6 to close would have been disastrous not only for 7 the health care people but also for the 8 economy. I think we have improved it. 9 Obviously there's a lot of questions that we 10 still have. There are a lot of concerns that we 11 have. We'll have to see how this system works, 12 but as we go into it, I think we can be 13 satisfied that we did the best possible under 14 the circumstances. 15 I vote in the affirmative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 Senator Cook to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 20 would like to add my admiration to Senator 21 Hannon for being able to get his arms around an 22 immensely complicated subject and to put 23 together a bill which I think is remarkable in 9969 1 what it accomplishes. 2 I try and liken it to trying to 3 build a tower with dominoes while riding a 4 bobsled downhill at 100 miles an hour. I just 5 don't know quite how you do it. 6 But my real purpose in rising is 7 to thank him again for sensitivity to the rural 8 health concerns. There are several provisions 9 in here which -- and I want to emphasize this - 10 which look toward the future. They are not an 11 effort to preserve the status quo or keep us 12 where we have been but to help us move forward, 13 and I think that's the thrust of this bill. I 14 think if we look at it in that context, we 15 really understand the genius, if you will, of 16 the way that it's been constructed. 17 And I, again, want to thank 18 Senator Hannon for all of his work and all of 19 his receptivity for the rural providers. 20 I vote in the affirmative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Cook will be recorded in the affirmative. 23 Senator Volker to explain his 9970 1 vote. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I just want to, first of all, say 4 that I don't believe people realize the enormity 5 of what is occurring here today with this bill. 6 I don't think that when this session started or 7 even a few months ago there were any of the 8 senior members of this house, and I hesitate to 9 put myself in that category, knowing the history 10 of issues of this state who could or would have 11 believed that a compromise would have been 12 reached on something that is so complicated as 13 NYPHRM. 14 Because I have a major public 15 hospital, the Roswell Park Cancer Institute and 16 Children's Hospital, in the Buffalo area, I had 17 to try to learn more about health care and 18 hospitals and all the rest of the stuff than I 19 ever really wanted to know, and Senator Hannon 20 and his staff was immensely helpful, and I just 21 got to say very honestly in response to Senator 22 Leichter -- and I understand that the process is 23 sort of a sausage when you talk about a budget, 9971 1 but it's something called democracy. It's a 2 terrible system, democracy. It's lasted here 3 for over 200 years. It's absolutely amazing 4 that it's lasted. But I think with all that, I 5 guess it's not been as bad a system as we 6 think. 7 But I think New York, thanks to 8 Senator Hannon, the Governor, and the Assembly 9 -- and it's no secret internally that, sure, 10 there was immense internal politics, but that 11 the people that worked on this bill probably 12 worked in a more bipartisan manner than in 13 almost any other time in the history of 14 healthcare in this state. 15 I want to immensely compliment 16 Senator Hannon for the job that is done. As I 17 said, I don't think -- very few people believed 18 this could be done other than December, because 19 the assumption around here was that this was 20 going to be extended, and the Governor to his 21 credit, by the way, said he wasn't going to do 22 that. 23 But it is an amazing feat. I 9972 1 want to especially compliment you for a piece 2 that's in this bill on page 68 that relates to 3 grants for children and cancer hospitals, and 4 there's another piece that's part of this that, 5 as I understand it, will have an immensely 6 favorable effect on Roswell Park Cancer 7 Institute in Buffalo, as well as Sloan 8 Kettering, by the way, in New York City and also 9 Children's Hospital in Buffalo, and several 10 other specialty hospitals, and I want to thank 11 him especially for that. 12 I think it's an admirable job. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In an 20 effort to help to define the length of the 21 future debate today, I wanted everyone to know 22 that the lemon ice is turning into lemonade 23 presently, so I just wanted to put that on the 9973 1 record. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 3 very much, Senator DeFrancisco. 4 Senator Alesi. 5 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, 6 will you place Calendar 1788 before the house, 7 please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the title to Calendar Number 1788. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1788, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 12 Assembly Bill Number 11341, an act to amend the 13 Public Health Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Alesi. 16 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, is 17 there a message of necessity? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 19 SENATOR ALESI: I move we accept. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 22 Calendar Number 1788 which is at the desk. All 23 those in favor, signify by saying aye. 9974 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Message is accepted. 5 Secretary will read the last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 8 act shall take effect on the same date as a 9 Chapter of the Laws of 1996. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Santiago, why do you 17 rise? 18 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. President, 19 I would like to state for the record that had I 20 been in the chamber on June 12, I would have 21 voted in the negative on Senate Bill 7532. 22 I would also like to state that 23 had I been in the chamber on the 13th, I would 9975 1 have voted negative on Senate Bill 4413. 2 Finally, had I been in the 3 chamber on July 11, I would have voted in the 4 negative on Senate Bill 5235. 5 I would also like to be recorded 6 in the affirmative on Senate Bill 7947 and 7948 7 which just passed this morning. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Santiago, without objection and hearing no 11 objection, you will be recorded in the 12 affirmative on Calendar Number 7948. 13 The record will reflect that had 14 you been in the chamber when a slow roll call 15 was taken on Senate Print 4947 that you would 16 have voted -- in the negative? 17 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And the 19 record will reflect that had you been in the 20 chamber on June 12 and June 13 and July 11 that 21 you would you have respectively voted in the 22 negative on Senate Print Numbers 7532, 4413 and 23 -- I think it was 5235? 9976 1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes, sir. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 3 will so reflect. 4 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Affirmative on 5 7947. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Santiago, for the record, you will be recorded 8 in the negative on those, that's correct. 9 7947, you want to be in the 10 affirmative? 11 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes, sir. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 13 For the record, the record will reflect that had 14 you been here when the slow roll call was taken 15 on 7947 that you would have voted in the 16 affirmative. 17 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Alesi. 20 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, 21 will you place Calendar 1786 before the house, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9977 1 will read the title to Calendar Number 1786 2 which was substituted earlier today. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1786, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 5 Assembly Bill Number 11329, an act to amend the 6 Public Health Law and others. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Alesi. 9 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, is 10 there a message of necessity at the desk? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 12 SENATOR ALESI: I move we accept. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 15 the desk on Calendar Number 1786. All those in 16 favor, signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Message is accepted. 21 Any Senator wishing to speak on 22 the bill? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 9978 1 SENATOR HANNON: This is the 2 Medicaid managed care bill. This is the bill 3 that will enable us to make changes in the 4 existing mandatory Medicaid managed care once we 5 get the waiver from Washington. This updates 6 the types of service delivery components that 7 have become necessary since we enacted mandated 8 managed care for Medicaid recipients in 1991. 9 It addresses questions of 10 marketing. It addresses questions of 11 enrollment, disenrollment, questions of auto 12 assignment, questions of quality assurance, 13 grievance, utilization reviews, special needs 14 plans. 15 Taking all of those, which are 16 highly important but detailed and somewhat 17 esoteric concepts, what this does is to really 18 allow us to let the recipients of Medicaid get 19 their health care through an orderly, rational 20 process and not to use an emergency room as 21 their primary care provider. This is going to 22 result in better care for that recipient. It's 23 going to result in a better use of the system, 9979 1 and it's going to help the entire state besides. 2 I would move the bill, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Alesi. 15 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, 16 may we go to the original Calendar, Number 22, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 19 original calendar, Calendar No. 70, Secretary 20 will read the title of Calendar Number 22. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 22, by Member of the Assembly Eve, Assembly 23 Print 5648C, an act to amend the Education Law. 9980 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 4 act shall take effect in 30 days. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Alesi. 12 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, 13 may we proceed with Calendar 1146, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read Calendar Number 1146, again on the 16 regular calendar, Calendar No. 70, which was 17 substituted earlier today. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1146, substituted earlier today, by Member of 20 the Assembly Lafayette, Assembly Print 3027C, an 21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Alesi. 9981 1 SENATOR ALESI: Mr. President, is 2 there a message? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 4 SENATOR ALESI: I move we accept. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 7 Calendar Number 1146. All those in favor, 8 signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Message is accepted. 13 Secretary will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 16 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Alesi. 9982 1 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. On supplemental Calendar No. 1, will 3 you place Calendar Number 1787 before the house. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Supplemental No. 1, Secretary will read the 6 title to Calendar Number 1787. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1787, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 9 Print 7957, an act to amend the Insurance Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Message 11 was previously accepted. 12 Any Senator wishing to speak on 13 the bill? 14 Hearing none, Secretary will read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 28. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 9983 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 2 could I be recognized, please? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Farley. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: I would like to 6 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 7 22. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection. Senator Cook, do you object to 10 Senator Farley's being recorded in the negative 11 on Calendar Number 22? 12 SENATOR COOK: I endorse it. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 14 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Farley 15 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 16 Number 22. 17 Senator Cook, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR COOK: Same question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, Senator Cook will be recorded in the 21 negative on Calendar Number 22. 22 (The Senate stood at ease.) 23 ...At 1:23 p.m.... 9984 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 2 will come to order, please. Chair recognizes 3 Senator Bruno. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 5 can we ask for an immediate meeting of the 6 Finance Committee in Room 332. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 8 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 9 Committee, immediate meeting of the Senate 10 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 11 Room, Room 332. Immediate meeting of the Senate 12 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 13 Room, Room 332. 14 (The Senate stood at ease from 15 1:23 p.m. to 1:31 p.m.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 18 take their places, staff to take their places. 19 Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 21 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 22 1783. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On your 9985 1 Supplemental Calendar Number 1, Secretary will 2 read the title of Calendar Number 1783, Senate 3 Print Number 7951, substituted earlier today. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1783, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11331, an act 7 to amend the Workers' Compensation Law. 8 SENATOR ONORATO: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Bruno, an explanation has been asked for by 11 Senator Onorato, the Acting Minority Leader. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 13 President, and Senator. What we have before us 14 is a very comprehensive Workers' Compensation 15 reform package for the people of this state. 16 We, in New York State, have for 17 years, suffered by being the second highest 18 ratepayer in all of the United States for 19 Workers' Compensation benefits. Senator -- I'm 20 not sure he's listening -- Mr. President, I 21 don't know if Senator Onorato has any interest 22 in what I'm saying, but I know that he doesn't 23 want to miss our opening comments because he 9986 1 will want to engage in some of the discussion 2 relating to this. 3 But we have been paying in this, 4 Senator, about $5 billion in premiums in this 5 state and we have been paying something in the 6 neighborhood of 51 to 55 percent higher than the 7 national average, second highest in the 8 country. 9 While we have been doing that, we 10 have, number one, been paying workers 47 cents 11 on the dollar while the national average is 62 12 cents on the dollar. Now, think of that: 13 Second highest premium in the country, and we 14 paid workers less than the national average. 15 That has been a disgrace. 16 Also, we have been driving jobs 17 out of this state. Our Workers' Comp' costs 18 helped us in the past become 50th in this 19 country in job creation -- 50th -- and that's 20 something that Governor Pataki, Republican 21 administration, with our partnering, have moved 22 from 50th in job creation to 5th in one and a 23 half years. 9987 1 We want to be number one. When 2 you hear about high taxes that relates to high 3 spending in this state, over-regulation, we're 4 doing something about that, today, in this 5 session, and last year. This is what the people 6 of this state have been waiting for. 7 So this package rescinds Dole v. 8 Dow which we in New York State have been the 9 only state to have in this form. Forty-nine 10 other states have had a workers' program without 11 it. New York State will now join them, and we 12 have put in place of the Dole, we have put a 13 list of grave injuries, a very specific list 14 that defines grave injuries, and that will help 15 limit the exposure and consequently the cost to 16 employers and it will allow employers to invest 17 more in their businesses and, when they invest 18 in their businesses, they'll be investing in 19 workers' safety, and that's a big part of this 20 package. 21 Employers will get credits for 22 their investments in a safer work place. There 23 will be managed care expanded through this 9988 1 bill. All of us know that the premiums and the 2 extravagance of those premiums relates to fraud 3 within the system, people who are on two pay 4 rolls, three payrolls. 5 This will eliminate people on 6 unemployment also collecting their benefits in a 7 double way, and it goes on. So we will be 8 minimally reducing Workers' Comp' costs in this 9 state in double digits over the next several 10 years, and we expect over the next several years 11 that New York State premiums for Workers' Comp' 12 will be at least a third less than they are 13 today. 14 We will be competitive with New 15 Jersey, so we won't have to suffer the 16 embarrassment of a team like the Giants being 17 attracted to upstate New York in their training 18 having to get their Workers' Comp' benefit out 19 of New Jersey, and that is a disgrace. They 20 were able to do that. Many other businesses 21 can't do that. They are trapped. They are 22 here. 23 So what have those businesses 9989 1 done? They have limited their employment. They 2 have not expanded. They have avoided the costs 3 for workers' premiums by not hiring when they 4 could, expanding in other states, and that has 5 not been productive. We are correcting that 6 today. 7 Governor Pataki took a leadership 8 position on this issue. He made it part of all 9 the good things that should happen this year in 10 this state, and we in the Legislature are now 11 partnering with the Governor in moving this 12 program forward and having it become law. 13 The people out there, the workers 14 out there, that will benefit directly as a 15 result of what we are doing here in this 16 chamber, we then can be proud to be partners 17 with the Governor in doing what we're doing. 18 This, along with the largest tax cuts in the 19 country, in this Republican administration, with 20 the leadership of Governor George Pataki, 2.5 21 billion in tax cuts in two years, is helping 22 turn the economy of this state around from the 23 failures that we have suffered in the past to 9990 1 the optimism and the growth that we are 2 experiencing now and will continue to experience 3 in the future. 4 So I want to thank my colleagues 5 for their support. I know there are differences 6 of opinion. I know there are things that people 7 would have liked to have had in this bill that's 8 not there, and I know that there are things in 9 this bill that some people would rather not see 10 there. But this bill was negotiated with the 11 Assembly, with the Governor, in good faith and 12 it represents a compromise; but the one thing 13 that we did not compromise was that the premiums 14 will be cut. 15 Now, next year and the year 16 after, workers will be safer as a result of what 17 we do in this state and jobs will be stabilized 18 or increased as a result of what we are doing 19 here today. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 9991 1 if the distinguished Majority Leader would yield 2 for a couple questions. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Bruno, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 yields. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, if 10 Senator Paterson would just indulge me for one 11 minute. We have a logistical problem here, Mr. 12 President. Senator DeFrancisco has a personal 13 problem that he has to tend to. So I would like 14 to -- it relates to other than -- and Senator 15 DeFrancisco as he casts his vote may want to 16 indulge us, but that will be up to him. But I 17 would like to read the last section - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: -- on this bill, 21 allow him to vote and then we will resume the 22 discussion. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9992 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 90. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 DeFrancisco, happy anniversary. How do you 9 vote? 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I guess 11 it's out of the bag, huh? I vote yes. Thank 12 you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the affirmative. 15 We're back on debate, Senator Paterson. Senator 16 Bruno yields. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 18 let me assure you this would have been a problem 19 had not the good Senator been celebrating his 20 28th wedding anniversary where there are great 21 festivities, and for those of us who can make it 22 we'll be there, so thank you for the open 23 invitation, Senator. His wife can accommodate 9993 1 another several hundred, so if we can get there, 2 we will. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 Senator Paterson, thank you for 5 your indulgence. You have a question, and I know 6 it's easy. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, it's an 8 easy question. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Right. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Hard to ask it 11 though of the Majority Leader. 12 The list of injuries that would 13 qualify someone for Dole v. Dow coverage with 14 which they could bring a suit and implead the 15 manufacturer and try to establish that the 16 employer violated regulations, we have severely 17 cut the type of injuries that would make a 18 person eligible. 19 As a matter of fact, some are 20 estimating that three-quarters to 90 percent of 21 the types are -- of injuries that would normally 22 have met the threshold test for Dole v. Dow suit 23 will not be covered as a result of this 9994 1 legislation and some of those injuries would be 2 the loss of a toe, the loss of a finger other 3 than the -- other than the index finger, 4 certainly 95 percent blindness or 95 percent 5 deafness, the lung disease asbestosis, asbestos 6 disease, cancer, and really a number of other 7 chronic illnesses, including chronic and severe 8 back pain. 9 Why would we want to take that 10 option away from workers who sustain some pretty 11 serious illnesses probably as a result of the 12 malfeasance of duty of the employer, and I know 13 this is negotiated, and I know that the Assembly 14 was part of it, but I wasn't. I must have been 15 busy. Somebody forgot to send me my invitation 16 to the negotiation because this is exactly what 17 I would have raised as an issue with respect to 18 workers and coverage because it's really going 19 to wipe out the ability of an injured party to 20 sue where the employer is probably jointly 21 responsible or in some ways specifically 22 responsible for the injury. 23 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, 9995 1 Senator. That is a good question. 2 The Dole piece in this state - 3 and again recognize that we're the only state in 4 the United States that has that in place - 5 creates by the rating board about a 6.3 percent 6 increase in the premiums and, if we were to 7 repeal Dole in its entirety, you would reduce 8 the premium by about 6.3 percent, so it's of 9 great consequence. 10 What we are doing -- and the good 11 Senator is right, by repealing Dole which is 12 totally open-ended, we have substituted a list 13 of what are considered grave injuries. He 14 described some of them, blindness, loss of an 15 ear, added to the list. There's a finite list. 16 Bottom line, Senator, the injured 17 worker, as a result of our actions, will not 18 receive one penny less as a result of our 19 actions, not one penny will they lose in any 20 benefit as relates to their ability to sue as a 21 third party. Why? Because Dole allows the 22 manufacturer who gets sued -- a worker gets 23 hurts on a machine. That worker, through 9996 1 Workers' Comp' and through the law, sues the 2 manufacturer if the machine malfunctions and 3 collects $100,000. The worker has that money in 4 compensation for the injury, plus the monthly 5 payment through Workers' Comp. The worker has 6 the money in the bank. Dole, in this state only 7 now, allows that manufacturer to sue the 8 employer to get back the hundred thousand that 9 they had to pay the injured worker. 10 This is really an attorney's 11 problem. It is the business related to the 12 manufacturer problem. This in no way affects the 13 injured worker, and we have to be very clear on 14 that. So, Senator, I appreciate the question 15 and I hope my answer clarifies because I know 16 you're concerned about protecting the rights of 17 the injured, and so are we, and that's why we've 18 been very careful in the way this bill has been 19 structured. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 If the leader would yield for 23 another question? 9997 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: The 6 livelihoods of the workers and also the 7 reputations of the manufacturer, something I've 8 never really heard mentioned here, are many 9 times at stake because there's almost a 10 presumption without a Dole v. Dow suit that the 11 manufacturer may have been at fault and many 12 times the manufacturer did exactly what they 13 were told to do and they're just as happy to 14 clear their name because they gave the employer 15 some safety codes, and they were violated. 16 Since 1982, Governor Pataki's 17 research indicates that only one-third of one 18 percent of the Workers' Compensation cases are 19 actually qualifying under Dole v. Dow. So when 20 one considers the fact that $300 million are 21 being paid, that it's that kind of industry with 22 respect to insurance, it's not the Dole v. Dow 23 recoveries, that are really hurting the 9998 1 premiums, in my opinion, as much as the payments 2 to the insurance companies and no real 3 understanding of how much of a profit they may 4 be making. 5 And so, when we look at this 6 particular issue -- and I left off of the list 7 of injuries that don't qualify now, body burns 8 from the head down that are not qualified under 9 Dole v. Dow -- what we're really looking at, Mr. 10 Leader, is the issue of workers still receiving 11 their benefits under Workers' Compensation but 12 not being able to receive damages, and these 13 types of injuries are the type that courts 14 usually will find that there's a greater harm 15 than just the fact that the person can't work, 16 that there are damages that are covering their 17 pain and suffering and the other problems they 18 might have. 19 So my question is, why are we 20 focusing so much on Dole v. Dow and not enough 21 on what may be the profit for the insurance 22 companies as the catalyst for why those who are 23 trying to reduce, in a sense, what would be 9999 1 reducing payments with the premiums under the 2 perception that it's Dole v. Dow when it may 3 very much arise from a different source? 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, Senator, 5 again New York State is the only state in the 6 United States that has Dole v. Dow in the form 7 that we have it. We're the only state in the 8 United States, and it has been determined that 9 that is one of the reasons why we have the 10 second highest premium in all of the United 11 States. So I will again state that in the 12 illustration that you give, if a person is 13 burned, that person can still sue the employer, 14 the manufacturer and recover whatever recovery 15 has been determined appropriate by the courts. 16 The prohibition would be then that that 17 manufacturer would not presently be able to sue, 18 as they can, the employer. The manufacturer 19 could not sue, but the injured worker gets 20 compensated, and what you're describing is a 21 matter of the courts. It's a matter of 22 attorneys litigating and courts deciding what's 23 appropriate. 10000 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 If the Senator would continue to 6 yield. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: If the 12 manufacturer is not liable, then there wouldn't 13 be a recovery from the manufacturer. I just 14 wanted to point that out and then go on really 15 to a different area if the leader is willing, 16 and that is why has our legislation not provided 17 any -- any benefits to injured workers such as 18 an increase in benefits or really an expansion 19 on the concepts of what some workers' safety 20 diseases, such as carpal tunnel syndrome, are 21 which would have been helpful to define that and 22 put that into the legislation and why is there 23 really no increase in the benefits periods for 10001 1 workers if, as we've been hearing, workers have 2 been waiting for this legislation? 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Well, this 4 represents a negotiated piece, Senator, and we 5 negotiated this bill, and I will remind you, 6 Senator, that the Senate, with the Governor, 7 passed a workers' reform package that included 8 substantial increases for workers in this 9 state. We passed that bill in the Senate, and 10 had that bill passed the Assembly in the form 11 that we voted for it in this house, the injured 12 workers in this state would have received a 13 substantial increase in their benefits. 14 As a matter of negotiation, some 15 things were dropped in trying to do something 16 meaningful in making us more competitive in this 17 country, and in defense of taking those out, 18 what we did do was we gave credits to employers 19 who encouraged increased workers' safety. We 20 increased all the requirements for workers' 21 safety, so you might say that if the work place 22 is safer, people would be less likely to get 23 hurt and they would be less likely to need any 10002 1 compensation, and I know that we would agree 2 that, if we had the ideal world, we would have 3 no injuries, consequently no need for Workers' 4 Comp' in the state; but that's not the world we 5 live in, so we're dealing in reality. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 7 President and thank you, Mr. Leader. 8 Mr. President, on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, on the bill. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: I guess that 12 in any succession or in any statistical 13 comparison, somebody has to be first, and I'm 14 very glad that New York State is first. I'm 15 very glad that we have understood the plight of 16 workers in a way that no other state has to this 17 point, and I hope that we will never diminish 18 our commitment to workers, and I hope we will 19 never run away from our responsibilities to 20 individuals who are injured, particularly from 21 the malfeasance of duty of other parties when 22 the other parties are their employers. 23 I think that we can not let 10003 1 employers get away with this. It doesn't happen 2 that often, as the Governor's research reveals, 3 but when it does we should not be allowing 4 anyone to escape their responsibility by trying 5 to make a situation that's covered in Dole v. 6 Dow cases appear to be so grandiose that it's 7 actually changing the numerical value of many of 8 the statistics and so, when we look at the - 9 the whole workers' compensation issue, and we 10 question as to whether or not benefits have 11 arisen, my understanding is that the negotiation 12 that would have allowed benefits to rise would 13 have included many of the AMA guidelines which 14 would have put a cap on permanent partial 15 disability, which would have been disastrous to 16 workers and also would have drawn no distinction 17 between -- for recovery based on the kind of 18 work that an individual does which are the types 19 of negotiating -- which would have been the type 20 of a negotiation that would have been 21 unacceptable, and so the only compromise that 22 could have been reached was not to have any 23 benefits. 10004 1 I think that's really quite 2 unfortunate, because with all of this 3 concentration on workers, we're forgetting that 4 these are the taxpayers who provide the broad 5 revenue base that the state derives its assets 6 from in the first place. Even if we were going 7 to make a comparison, these aren't individuals 8 who have been in any way benefiting from the - 9 from the public trough. If there are cases of 10 fraud and there are cases of -- of double and 11 triple counting, we need to ferret them out and 12 if they're individuals who are breaking the law, 13 we need to prosecute them. 14 We're talking about a relatively 15 few number of the Workers' Compensation cases 16 that need assistance, and most of this 17 legislation is really concentrated on rate 18 reductions which I think is unacceptable, and I 19 respect the agreement that was reached by other 20 legislators here. I understand that a compromise 21 is a natural form of closure to negotiation and 22 that everyone doesn't get what they want in com 23 promise, but also the fact that we're debating 10005 1 these bills gives individuals who don't believe 2 in the inevitable compromise the opportunity to 3 alert the public and alert their colleagues to 4 issues that probably need to be addressed in the 5 future, and I think that when we take a -- a 6 next look at the whole Workers' Compensation 7 system, we're going to have to look at this 8 because what we've done in this legislation is 9 give no new benefits to workers but rate 10 reductions to employers and are probably letting 11 90 percent of the employers who are already 12 guilty of not following safety code violations a 13 way out, while some serious injuries have been 14 suffered by their employees who were working 15 there in good faith. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Leichter. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 20 President. I believe there's an amendment at the 21 desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Leichter, there is an amendment at the desk. Are 10006 1 you asking that the amendment reading be waived 2 and you have an opportunity to explain it? 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, right. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 reading of it is waived and you are afforded 7 that opportunity. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 9 Senator Bruno, and the Majority and the Governor 10 have presented us with a bill that gives good 11 benefits to the insurance companies, good value 12 to the employers and nothing -- nothing -- of 13 meaning to the employees. 14 The fact is that there's going to 15 be in total, considering this bill and other 16 action we've taken in previous years, a 49 17 percent decrease in premiums and not one penny 18 of that goes to the employees. 19 I can not accept that. Senator 20 Bruno referred to the fact that it was 21 unfortunate that the workers did not get some 22 increase in benefits. Well, Senator, it is 23 unfortunate, and something that we ought to do, 10007 1 something that we ought to take some action on, 2 and that's precisely what this amendment that I 3 offer on behalf of the Democratic Conference 4 will do and, Senator, what we've done is that 5 we've taken the figures that were in the Senate 6 Majority bill and I think it's a matter of your 7 standing as a matter of principle behind those 8 figures saying you have a concern for the 9 employees. 10 Let me just point out there's 11 been no increase in the benefits that workers 12 get under Workers' Compensation since 1990. 13 What this bill will do, it will provide that by 14 October 1, 1997, workers would get a maximum of 15 520, in 1998 it would go up to 540 and then 16 would level off or plateau out at 560. 17 Let me point out that New York - 18 New York State's benefits are below those of 19 many states. If we're going to have a system 20 that's going to work, there's got to be fairness 21 for workers, and the bill before us does not 22 have fairness for workers. It is manifestly 23 unfair. 10008 1 Mr. President, I move the 2 amendment. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 4 speaker on the amendment? Hearing none - 5 Senator Onorato, on the amendment. 6 Senator Onorato, on the 7 amendment. 8 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 9 I join my colleague, Senator Leichter, in 10 supporting this amendment because this current 11 bill really doesn't do any justice at all to the 12 working class of people who are injured on the 13 job. 14 As the Senator aptly pointed out 15 there's been no increases since 1990, and 16 workers who are injured many, many years ago are 17 still receiving the same benefits that they 18 received in 1975 or 1976. We've been presenting 19 bills here day in and day out, increasing cost 20 of living to pensioners who are receiving 21 substantial amounts of money for their pensions 22 on a cost of living increase. We have yet to 23 address the injured workers to increase their 10009 1 cost of living increases, and they need it more 2 than anyone else because they have added costs 3 because of the injuries that they sustained on 4 the job, and not to include any increases at all 5 at the request of the employers, who are willing 6 to reap the benefits of all of this here, and we 7 don't deny or begrudge anybody from saving some 8 money, but we have also always believed in the 9 American dream where everybody makes a few 10 dollars, let's all share in the profits. 11 This way we're not sharing in the 12 profits. We're making the rich a little bit 13 richer and the poor a lot poorer. I really urge 14 my colleagues to support this amendment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Connor, on the amendments. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 I would urge everyone to support 20 this amendment. This so-called Workers' Comp' 21 reform effort this year is truly amazing. 22 The Governor put forth his 23 proposal, and it contained changes designed to 10010 1 save money, but it provided enhanced benefits 2 for workers. The Senate Majority adopted and 3 passed the Governor's proposal as the Republican 4 reform proposal. It did away with Dole v. Dow. 5 It did other things, but it contained increased 6 benefits for injured workers. The Assembly put 7 out their proposal. It did different things 8 than the Republican proposal. It made other 9 changes, but it had increased benefits for 10 workers. 11 We on this side of the aisle in 12 this house put out a version of reform that we 13 thought would save money. It made some 14 modifications, but it had increased benefits for 15 workers. 16 Then we saw a several-week highly 17 secretive process ostensibly about the budget 18 that was a hundred and some days overdue, but we 19 began to read Workers' Comp' was the real 20 issue. Workers' Comp' was the real issue, and a 21 couple days ago emerges what we have now just 22 seen in the last hour or two in print, the 23 so-called compromise that resolved all of our 10011 1 problems, that made modifications in Workers' 2 Comp' and will save employers ostensibly 49 or 3 50 percent of their cost of Workers' Comp', and 4 this -- this at this eleventh hour after 5 secretive negotiations, is missing the one 6 feature that everyone in the light of day in 7 public for the last month after month after 8 month always said we wanted to change it, but we 9 have increased benefits for workers. 10 The secretive late-at-night 11 spring-on-us-at-the-last-minute compromise, does 12 one thing that no other proposal in the light of 13 day did, that no other proposal presented to 14 editorial boards did, that no other proponent 15 was willing to stand before their constituents 16 and discuss before a day or two ago. It denies 17 any increase in benefits for workers. 18 I urge that we adopt this 19 amendment and we correct that oversight that 20 resulted from this secretive process, three men 21 and the budget, and the faith and safety of all 22 of our workers in their hands in secret. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10012 1 question is on the amendment. All those in 2 favor of the amendment signify by saying aye. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in 4 the affirmative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will call the roll. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Party vote in the 8 negative. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 11 the party line votes, announce the results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 22, nays 36, 13 party line vote. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 amendment is lost. 16 Senator Dollinger, on the main 17 bill. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the main 19 bill. Will Senator Bruno yield just to one 20 question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Bruno, do you yield to one question? 23 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 10013 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 yields. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Suppose a 5 worker, Senator, goes into a situation in which 6 he reasonably believes he's being exposed to 7 danger at the work place, he thinks it's 8 dangerous, and his employer nonetheless orders 9 him to do it. If he refuses to do it, can he be 10 fired? Is there anything in this law that 11 affects that? 12 SENATOR BRUNO: We're not dealing 13 in a workers' reform package with the relation 14 ship between the employer and the employee as 15 relates to the perception of what's dangerous 16 and what isn't. No, we're not attempting to 17 deal with that issue in the law. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Under this - 19 SENATOR BRUNO: And by the way, 20 Senator, the law already prohibits an employer 21 from ordering an employee to do something that 22 is apparently or considered extremely 23 dangerous. You're an attorney -- you are an 10014 1 attorney? 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: And you know 4 that, I would have thought. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, I 6 guess, again through you, Mr. President, that 7 raises a question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you 9 asking Senator Bruno now to answer a second 10 question. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am -- well, 12 he said something that raised a second question 13 in my mind. I hoped he would yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Bruno, do you yield to a second question from 16 Senator Dollinger? 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, the 22 law that you refer to, is that the law of the 23 state of New York? 10015 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Senator Gold, is 2 that the law of the state of New York? If you 3 were defending someone, would you say it's the 4 law of the state of New York, Senator? 5 SENATOR GOLD: Are you asking me 6 for my legal opinion? 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes. I'm asking 8 you, yes, yes. 9 SENATOR GOLD: When I see the pay 10 offer, I'll tell you. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 12 am told by my learned counsels, who are on 13 retainer, that it is the present law of New York 14 State, and that it's case law and that an 15 employer cannot retaliate against an employee by 16 case law, and again you're an attorney and I'm 17 sure that you've studied that in law school. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Dollinger, on the bill. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This bill, I 23 guess, like many others who've said it's a 10016 1 compromise, it's a compromise that I'm going to 2 support and vote in favor of, but, Senator 3 Bruno, I just posed that example because, 4 Senator Bruno, it just seems to me that that's 5 the one instance that this bill does not address 6 and that is forcing a worker to choose between 7 his job and his enjoyment of life because, when 8 Dole against Dow disappears there, we're going 9 to be in a situation where an injured worker who 10 is hurt on the job, if that is because the 11 employer exposes him to an unreasonable risk, we 12 may be cutting off the right of that employee to 13 seek damages which go beyond the mere 14 replacement of his medical benefits and his lost 15 wages, that enjoyment of life, those things that 16 we do every day with our children, with our 17 families, as we pick up our children, as we hug 18 our loved ones, all those things that are part 19 of our enjoyment of life, may not be compensated 20 when Dole against Dow goes by the boards, and it 21 seems to me that some day we may revisit this 22 issue and reopen this door because we'll 23 recognize that, when employees are exposed by 10017 1 their employers to reckless conduct, to a risk 2 of severe injury, the old system of Workers' 3 Compensation will not provide them with adequate 4 redress. 5 That issue, we leave to another 6 day. I think we're retreating from that kind of 7 approach in this bill. I understand it's a 8 compromise. I understand there are other good 9 things that it does with the elimination of 10 fraud, stronger fraud provisions and other 11 benefits that will help everyone in this state 12 perhaps restore greater credibility in this 13 system, but I'm afraid that we will come back to 14 this issue of loss of enjoyment of life on your 15 job and putting our employees in a situation 16 where they have to choose between keeping their 17 job and losing their enjoyment of life. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Not yet. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Connor. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, to close 10018 1 for the Minority on the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Connor, to close. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, 5 we -- we've seen these last weeks, as I said 6 before, the budget of the state of New York, at 7 great expense to our school districts, at great 8 risk to the credit rating of the state of New 9 York, held up because the Governor in this state 10 decided to wage what he described as a war of 11 principle. 12 As a matter of principle, he 13 wanted to do away with Dole v. Dow. He wanted 14 to reduce costs of Workers' Comp' and indeed on 15 a bipartisan basis every conference in this 16 Capitol was looking for ways to reduce costs of 17 Workers' Compensation for employers. 18 We urged the people look at the 19 more than 50 percent of the premium that is 20 never paid out in benefits to workers, the 50 21 percent that seems to disappear, yet no one - 22 no one involved in this secret negotiating 23 process ever really bit the bullet to take on 10019 1 the insurer, the insurance companies, and say, 2 Well, after all, it's all about insurance. It's 3 premiums that they charge. 4 What happens to the money? Indeed 5 we had seen some dramatic decreases in the cost 6 of Workers' Comp' just through actions taken by 7 the Insurance Superintendent. 8 This bill doesn't do that. It 9 leaves untouched the insurance companies. It 10 assumes somehow or other that eliminating 11 certain risks will result in a lowered cost of 12 premiums. 13 Mr. President, I'm still in New 14 York City waiting for lower hotel room rates 15 after we repealed the hotel occupancy tax that 16 was supposed to be passed on to tourists and 17 increase business. I don't believe that the 18 marketplace automatically reacts to actions we 19 take. I think, if the insurers can still bring 20 in the same premium, all we're doing here is 21 increasing their profits above 50 percent. 22 We, in fact, are denying the 23 workers benefit increases. We're changing Dole 10020 1 v. Dow in a way that makes no sense. If it were 2 a battle of principle, if it were a battle of 3 principle, then why do we allow a Dole lawsuit 4 if you're burned above the neck and you're a 5 worker and you're not if you're burned below the 6 neck? Certainly a worker can be injured by very 7 severe burns below the neck. They can 8 disfigure. They can affect muscle function. 9 They can, in fact, render someone a cripple from 10 burns, but that's different than if it ruins 11 your profile, if it burns you above the neck. 12 That makes no sense. There's no 13 rationale for that. It's almost as if someone 14 flipped a coin and split the baby. Where is 15 that battle for principle that cost the taxpayer 16 this delay, cost the school districts the 17 interest rates, that threatens our credit 18 rating, that made budgeting in New York more of 19 a joke than it was before the days of the Pataki 20 administration, the Governor who ran on the 21 issue of on-time budgets, of openness in the 22 process. 23 The provision limiting Dole to 10021 1 save what, 3.1 percent of the costs, 3.1 percent 2 of the premium costs, as opposed to 50 percent 3 that just disappears, 50 percent profit by the 4 insurance industry. But this will save the 5 expense of workers who suffer from unsafe -- who 6 suffer serious injury because of lack of safety 7 in the work place, such as asbestosis, such as 8 severe burns below the neck, such as any variety 9 of other severe injuries. 10 You know, this makes no sense. 11 You know, if you lose one finger, you can't sue 12 but if you lose two -- I can think of some 13 important fingers, just one of them that could 14 have curbed someone's ability to function or 15 communicate if that were the finger that were 16 lost. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Would you like 18 to demonstrate? 19 SENATOR CONNOR: No. I was 20 thinking of when we vote, when we vote in the 21 chamber. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Or like food in an 23 Italian restaurant. 10022 1 SENATOR CONNOR: I wasn't 2 thinking in Rockefelleresque terms, I would say 3 to my colleagues over there. I was thinking of 4 the way we vote sometimes. 5 All right. Things like cancer, 6 chronic disease, I mean 95 percent blindness you 7 can't sue, but a hundred percent blindness you 8 can. I mean, you know, injuries that affect 9 workers for really the rest of their -- their 10 life and their ability to work, their ability to 11 enjoy life aren't covered and, you know, we're 12 back to the basic philosophical question of 13 Dole. 14 This compromise is nothing about 15 principle. This budget was held up and then 16 resolved with a -- a determination that has 17 nothing to do with principles. This is a defeat 18 for sound principles, whether you hold the 19 principles the Governor espoused, that Dole v. 20 Dow wasn't appropriate in a system of limited 21 compensation such as Workers' Compensation or 22 you held the principles that others, including 23 myself, believe that you had to discourage the 10023 1 kind of willful negligent hazarding of worker 2 safety that some employers, regrettably and not 3 most, but some employers were guilty of. That's 4 what the Dole cases were about, two conflicting 5 principles. 6 And what did we end up with? What 7 was it really about? Three percent of the money 8 at the risk of workers. Three percent of the 9 money in worker comp' premiums doesn't compare 10 in dollar amounts to the amount of money lost by 11 our localities and school districts by the delay 12 in this budget. 13 Mr. President, it's time we stand 14 up for values and principles and we vote 15 consistently with them and not accept last 16 minute hashed out in secret deals, whether it's 17 on the budget, Workers' Comp' or anything else. 18 I would urge a no vote. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 90. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in 10024 1 the negative with exceptions. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 6 the Democrat party line vote in the negative 7 with exceptions. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explain my 9 vote, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Hoffmann, to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I have listened over the last 15 number of years to the employers in my district 16 complaining bitterly about the cost of doing 17 business in New York State and, sadly, I've 18 watched several of them pick up stakes and leave 19 the state. As much as I would like to follow 20 the position espoused by the AFL-CIO and protect 21 the unique privilege that they enjoy in New York 22 State through Dole vs. Dow not enjoyed in any 23 other state, I recognize that for employers the 10025 1 cost of Workers' Compensation as much as any 2 other single cost frequently is the significant 3 attributable factor to the loss of jobs. If we 4 can't have the jobs, compensation is really a 5 no-issue at all to us, so I am going to cast my 6 vote in support of this measure. 7 I believe that it could have been 8 handled in a very different manner. I, like 9 Senator Connor, am offended that it came up in 10 the middle of the night by people who have met 11 in secret. Although there were, I think, valiant 12 attempts by a task force in this house and a 13 special committee or subcommittee in the other 14 house to hold hearings and to engender some 15 discussion, the final message once again was 16 crafted by a couple of people who did not even 17 elicit the input of the rest of us, as Senator 18 Paterson had said earlier today on another 19 matter. 20 So it is with a great deal of 21 trust and some mixed feelings that I vote in 22 favor of this and earnestly hope that it will 23 fulfill the expectations so loudly boasted by 10026 1 those who are claiming responsibility for it. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Hoffmann will be recorded in the affirmative for 4 it. 5 Senator Lack to explain his 6 vote. 7 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 To my knowledge, Senator Connor, 10 I think the deal was struck at 4:00 o'clock in 11 the afternoon, not in the middle of the night, 12 but be that as it may, that's part of still 13 probably the least understood decision by the 14 Court of Appeals in the last 25 years and, if 15 you listen to the floor debate, if you read the 16 transcript of today's floor debate, it continues 17 as the least understood decision. 18 There is nothing that is 19 happening here today that at all changes who or 20 how an employee can sue as a result of a 21 Workers' Comp'-related injury. But be that as 22 it may, probably the most important thing and 23 why the Governor should be congratulated is that 10027 1 by removing some of the severe onus with respect 2 to Dole v. Dow, we can finally in this state for 3 the first time since 1972 start looking at 4 Workers' Compensation issues purely as matters 5 between employees and employers and insurers, 6 the Workers' Compensation system and everybody 7 else who is involved in that mix, without having 8 to worry about an outside stimulus such as Dole 9 v. Dow. 10 Senator Connor and members of the 11 Senate Minority, obviously one reason, if not 12 the main reason there's not a benefit increase 13 with respect to this package is that the 14 negotiations with respect to a large portion of 15 what we're talking about today in Workers' Comp' 16 had nothing whatsoever to do with labor or 17 employee representatives. It had to do with 18 attorneys who were conducting litigation with 19 respect to that, and they're not interested in 20 benefit increases. 21 For the record, the Assembly 22 bill, when first passed, did not have a benefit 23 increase. The first passage of the benefit 10028 1 increase was the Senate bill. The Assembly then 2 added it, and I'll just leave, Mr. President, 3 with one final word. 4 Now that we can finally look at 5 Workers' Compensation, remember please that 42 6 states in this country index benefits. It's not 7 a matter of concern for the state Legislature. 8 We, of course, are one of the eight states that 9 do not index benefits. Senator Bruno in his 10 comments, the Governor in his comments have 11 indicated that they're open to further 12 negotiations with respect to reforming the 13 Workers' Compensation system. 14 Now that we have moved Dole 15 aside, for the most part we can finally look at 16 issues between employers, employees and those 17 matters that are related thereto. Obviously the 18 largest outstanding issue from the business 19 point of view is the AMA guidelines. It 20 represents 12 percent of existing premium. 21 Wouldn't it be nice to start negotiating and 22 discussing that with respect to indexing 23 benefits so that we could be out of that 10029 1 business as well and then this Legislature can 2 finally confine itself to looking at problems of 3 how government can always improve the Workers' 4 Compensation system, not at collateral 5 unnecessary issues. 6 I vote aye, Mr. President. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Saland, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 As I've indicated over the past 13 several years, as I've spoken to one or more 14 groups within my district, there is nothing that 15 has acted as more of a lightning rod on the 16 issue than has the issue of Workmen's Comp'. 17 On one occasion I've had members 18 of the business community say, I'm certainly not 19 pleased about the way New York taxes; I'm not 20 happy about the way New York State relates, but 21 if you could somehow give me one reform, if you 22 could somehow give me one thing that would 23 improve the position of me as an employer in New 10030 1 York State, it would be Workers' Comp', Workers' 2 Comp', and that's small businesses and large 3 businesses, and one of the things I've heard 4 here today as I've sat and listened to the 5 debate, and I've heard the entire debate, leave 6 me with the sense that what we're about to do is 7 to set off alarm bells of great, great horrific 8 things to occur in the state of New York. 9 But let's look at this somewhat 10 objectively and somewhat realistically. There 11 are 50 states in the Union; 49 of them do not 12 have Dole v. Dow. I'm not aware of these horror 13 stories in 49 other states with people lying in 14 the aisles and the places in which they work, of 15 people who have somehow or other been shackled 16 to machinery that is causing them atrocious and 17 horrifying injuries. I'm not aware of people who 18 are being preyed upon because they don't have 19 Dole v. Dow, this third-party suit mechanism, in 20 their state. It's truly nothing but a canard. 21 We are the only one, by way of court decision, 22 that has this and again, let's look at the 23 reality of it. 10031 1 The reality of it is that this 2 house proposed benefit increases that govern the 3 proposed benefit increases. The Assembly in 4 lock step with the trial bar -- had nothing to 5 do with unions; this was the trial bar -- this 6 was a lift for the trial bar, provided 7 gratuitously -- oh, no, not gratuitously. I 8 should not say -- it would definitely be a mis 9 nomer, on the part of the Assembly Majority. 10 They wouldn't break away. Who was going to 11 pay? Who was going to pay for the increase? Who 12 was going to pay for the increase once they 13 refused to go with Dole v. Dow, once they refuse 14 to do what 38 other states do in this Union, and 15 again without horrific work experiences. 38 16 other states have the AMA standards. 17 So what I've heard certainly 18 says, well, depending upon what constituency 19 you're endeavoring to market in that, the 20 reality is that this reform -- and it really 21 should have been more extensive -- is what 22 business wants, it's what will help to create 23 additional dollars in the business community, 10032 1 not to fatten the pockets of business, to 2 stimulate business, to make business more 3 competitive, to reduce New York's rates and to 4 try and make New York what we've claimed that we 5 are and really haven't been for quite some time, 6 the Empire State, a place where businesses of 7 all kinds, all types, can thrive, people will 8 work and there will be certainly a far more 9 favorable predisposition to do business in New 10 York, to stay or to move in. 11 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 12 in the affirmative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Saland in the affirmative. 15 Senator Gold, to explain his 16 vote. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 18 much. Mr. President. 19 Senator Saland said one thing 20 which I absolutely do agree with and that is 21 when he used the expression "alarm bell", and I 22 want to congratulate Senator Bruno, and I want 23 to congratulate the Governor for understanding 10033 1 the media and understanding the public. 2 Dole v. Dow is the alarm bell out 3 there and everybody is zeroing in on it, except 4 it really is minimal in terms of what this bill 5 is about and what you're all trying to do. 6 There was a proposal that was 7 drafted by Senator Connor and by the Minority 8 which would have been helpful in this area, and 9 I believe the figure is something like 2.2 10 percent as to what the premium cut would have 11 been. Under this proposal it's 3 percent, so 12 you go convince the public if they want to 13 listen that the budget had to be late for 14 eight-tenths of one percent of this premium. 15 The truth of the matter is, the 16 truth of the matter is that the big money that 17 could have been saved isn't being saved because 18 you won't go after the companies. That's all, 19 but you win the rhetoric war. Why do you win 20 the rhetoric war? Because by throwing out that 21 alarm bell of Dole v. Dow, Dole v. Dow, that's 22 what you get everybody to focus in on. You get 23 everybody hot and bothered over it, and you let 10034 1 remain the insurance company profits, what have 2 you. And why, in fact. Will you win this in 3 the press? Because the bottom line is that the 4 newspapers have an interest in this particular 5 piece of legislation, and they can benefit by 6 it, so they'll write their editorial. They'll 7 write their editorials and they will tell the 8 public that this is good, but they don't put the 9 little hook in there that they would expect us 10 to do when there's a conflict of interest but 11 they have a conflict of interest so that is the 12 bottom line. 13 You have managed very 14 successfully to frame this argument around Dole 15 v. Dow, Dole v. Dow, when the fact is that it is 16 not the major cause of premium escalation in 17 this field, and it is not the area where you 18 could save benefits the most, and what is worse 19 is while you focus everybody on Dole v. Dow, you 20 cut out the part of the bill that would have 21 given workers something by increased benefits. 22 I vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10035 1 Gold will be recorded in the negative. Senator 2 Marcellino. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 4 President, to explain my vote. 5 I rise to congratulate the 6 Governor, congratulate Senator Bruno for 7 negotiating what seems to be a great compromise 8 on the issue of Workmen's Compensation providing 9 a system which would allow this state to become 10 competitive, to come back to being competitive 11 with other states, to have a possibility of, and 12 a chance to revise a system which by all 13 estimates is a failed system. 14 Now, we've heard certain comments 15 here that this debate was held in the middle of 16 the night and that somehow these agreements were 17 done in secret, that they were done in the 18 middle of the night, that no one knew about it. 19 It was my understanding that Senator Spano and 20 the Labor Committee went all over this state and 21 held approximately 13 hearings on just this 22 issue, Workmen's Compensation, and how to revise 23 it. Were they all held in the middle of the 10036 1 night? Were they all held in closets where no 2 one knew about it? I don't understand that. 3 This chamber provided increased 4 benefits to workers. It was the other chamber 5 that took them out, not this chamber, the other 6 chamber, in the negotiations. Dole v. Dow 7 doesn't protect workers; it protects lawyers. 8 We all know that. To say that it inhibits a 9 worker's right to sue is wrong, and every lawyer 10 in the room knows it. 11 It doesn't infringe upon their 12 right to sue at all. This bill doesn't do 13 anything like that either. Once again, as in the 14 bond act before, you talk the talk but you don't 15 walk the walk. It's important. This 16 legislation is good legislation and sound 17 legislation. 18 To my knowledge, it's now 2:30 in 19 the afternoon. If it wasn't cloudy outside, I'm 20 sure the sun would be out and maybe some of my 21 colleagues would see a little clearer. 22 I vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10037 1 Marcellino will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 Senator Stachowski, to explain 3 his vote. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explain my 5 vote. I -- I'm just fascinated, everybody who 6 is for the worker, the Assembly is against the 7 worker, they're for the trial lawyers. Two 8 thirds of the three people involved in the 9 negotiations were for increased benefits, but we 10 got a bill with no increased benefits. 11 Thank God, Senator Marcellino, 12 that we're not doing the bill that was discussed 13 throughout the state of New York at all those 14 wonderful hearings at which, we might add that 15 in case you forgot and I mentioned it before, 16 that wonderful employer, that lady that took the 17 covers off the machine where the woman lost her 18 two hands, came in and spoke as strongly as you 19 just did in favor of gettin' rid of Dole v. Dow 20 and I don't have a problem with that. 21 The fact is that I'm not a big 22 trial lawyer supporter. That's not why I'm 23 standing, but the fact is that that lady lost 10038 1 her hands. This employer was going to get that 2 machine out of there, and nobody would have 3 known about that lady if this woman that owned 4 that company that took the guards off didn't 5 testify at Senator Spano's hearing, and 6 incidentally, as I said before, the effect of it 7 was when they put on what would be like a 8 temporary thumb on the end of her arm, the 9 insurance company said she could go back to work 10 at light duty. Great system, no loss there. 11 This woman is wonderful. If she didn't 12 eventually happen to win the lawsuit, she would 13 have been a great -- I don't know what she'd do 14 with her arm, with a thing on it, but she'd be 15 doing light duty some place but in the insurance 16 company, I'm sure not for that woman that took 17 the guards off the machine and said we should 18 eliminate this. 19 I've worked with Senator Lack and 20 Senator Spano trying to find something to 21 replace Dole v. Dow because I'm not interested 22 in lawsuits. I'm just interested in protecting 23 workers. If I'm wrong then, if this proves to be 10039 1 it, then I'm wrong in voting no today. I don't 2 know that this is a system that's going to work 3 mainly because of the system that says, if you 4 burn your cheek, you can have a lawsuit but if 5 you burn a lot more important parts of your body 6 you get nothing. I find that truly amazing, 7 truly amazing. 8 Well, no, not exactly, important 9 parts. Anyway, it's just fascinating to me that 10 everybody was so supportive of the workers in 11 all the cheerleading parts of this battle. We 12 put the bills out, say we're for increased 13 benefits. We had the hearings that say we want 14 increased benefits, all through the negotiations 15 which, incidentally, weren't exactly open even 16 though whatever time of the day they took place 17 and I know you didn't know any more what was 18 goin' on in the Workmen's Comp' bill in those 19 negotiations than I did. You can say you did 20 now, but that would be -- it would really be, as 21 Senator Saland said, a canard and I happened to 22 read the meaning of "canard" watching "The 23 Natural" a few years ago because it was filmed 10040 1 in Buffalo, and it was one of the great lines in 2 the movie. 3 However, I hope that we're wrong, 4 I hope you're right that this bill is going to 5 change the system and the workers aren't going 6 to be hurt by it, but I find it difficult when 7 we make a big change like is in this bill and 8 it's in the whole system, which would do nothing 9 for the working man. 10 I have nothing against the 11 employers. I just happen to think that the 12 premiums they pay are unbelievable. I can't 13 understand how they grew to what they grew for 14 the little benefit increase that the people got 15 and if this does it, I'm wrong, and I 16 congratulate you and salute you. However, I 17 can't vote for a bill that does nothing for the 18 working guy and only helps out to my initial 19 glance the employers that deserve it and the 20 insurance companies that nobody seems to want to 21 look at. 22 I vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10041 1 Stachowski will be recorded in the negative. 2 Senator DiCarlo to explain his 3 vote. 4 SENATOR DiCARLO: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. I will be brief. 6 Just let me preface my remarks 7 with my father is an attorney, my oldest brother 8 is an attorney, my next oldest brother is an 9 attorney. I am not, but let me say something. 10 This has not -- this has not turned out to be a 11 labor/worker issue. This has become a battle 12 between lawyers and their profits. It's unfor 13 tunate that that's what's held this up, and the 14 reason that I know that, or I believe I know 15 that to be true, is a personal experience that 16 I've had, and that was some of letters that have 17 been circulated and sent to a lot of trial 18 lawyers in this state attacking me and, in this 19 letter, they talk about Workers' Comp' reform 20 and they say please contribute money to my 21 opponent because Senator DiCarlo is a number one 22 opponent to the trial lawyers in the state of 23 New York, and they do not mention the poor 10042 1 injured worker. They did not mention the fact 2 that workers should be compensated in a better 3 way, but they talk about their own profits, so 4 send us money to defeat Senator DiCarlo, an 5 enemy to the trial lawyers in this state. 6 This is nonsense. The attacks 7 talking about us doing bad things to injured 8 workers are nonsense. The fact of the matter is 9 Dole v. Dow is nothing but a trial lawyer issue 10 -- money in their pockets, and that's why this 11 has been held up and that's why the workers 12 didn't get increases. That's why the workers 13 didn't get what they deserved, and shame on the 14 other house for making that happen. 15 I vote yes. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 DiCarlo will be recorded in the affirmative. 20 Senator Leichter, to explain his 21 vote. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Mr. 23 President. 10043 1 After hearing still a commercial 2 that it's all trial lawyers and how much the 3 Majority loves the working people, let's get 4 back to reality. If you want to do something 5 for the working people, there's nothing to 6 prevent you from having supported the amendment 7 that I introduced saying we will not support a 8 bill that doesn't have increased benefits. 9 It's not a matter of the trial 10 lawyers. It's a matter of whether you're 11 beholden to the insurance companies or the 12 employers or whether you want to help the 13 workers. It's as simple as that. Nobody is 14 binding your hands. Suddenly this Majority is so 15 powerless. Oh, if only we had the power, if 16 only we could do this. 17 Well, you had that power and you 18 can do it, and I think we ought to get away from 19 this fantasy. Earlier I heard the Majority 20 Leader go on how this economic program of 21 Governor Pataki and the tax cuts, the Workers' 22 Compensation, is generating all this wonderful 23 economic activity. Nonsense! Baloney! 10044 1 Balderdash! 2 The fact is that the economy in 3 New York State was creating more jobs in the 4 last year of Governor Cuomo. You've given tax 5 cuts that basically benefit the rich and you're 6 now passing a Workers' Compensation bill that 7 benefits employers, that benefits mainly 8 insurance companies, and that sticks it to the 9 working people of this state. 10 Mr. President, I vote in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 14 Senator Bruno to close and 15 explaining his vote. 16 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, to 17 explain my vote. 18 We've been listening to a lot of 19 discussion, a lot of debate, a lot of 20 well-intentioned statements; but I want to 21 conclude by saying that yes, the Governor did 22 make this a priority for all the reasons that 23 we've talked about that are positive. The 10045 1 bottom line was to improve the climate for 2 workers, worker safety and workers' benefits and 3 Workers' Compensation, and to create jobs. 4 That's the bottom line. 5 Mr. President, I want to remind 6 everyone in this chamber that we passed a 7 Workers' Compensation reform bill previous to 8 this one with the Governor's support. The 9 Governor's program bill, that had injured worker 10 increases in it from 400 to $560 dollars over 11 three years. That was negotiated out in the 12 other house and in the other house they passed a 13 Workers' Comp' reform package that had no 14 benefit increases in it for workers, none other 15 than those that might be realized through any 16 savings that were not apparently there. 17 So let's tell it like it is. We 18 in this house passed a bill that increased 19 benefits for workers substantially. The bill 20 that passed the other house had no increases in 21 it. This was a compromise, but it's not over. 22 Injured workers will benefit substantially from 23 what has taken place here today, so I'm happy to 10046 1 vote aye. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Bruno, in the affirmative. 4 Announce the negatives and the 5 results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39, nays 19, 7 party vote with exceptions. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Bruno. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this 12 time ask for an immediate meeting of the Rules 13 Committee in Room 332. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 15 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 16 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules 17 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 18 332. Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee 19 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 20 Senator Dollinger, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, earlier there was a bill that was 10047 1 approved by a party vote with exceptions. I 2 didn't quite understand that. It was on 3 Calendar Number 1779. I'd ask that my vote be 4 changed from the negative to the affirmative on 5 that and ask unanimous consent to have my vote 6 changed on that calendar number. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson, do you have any objection to Senator 9 Dollinger changing his vote from negative to 10 affirmative on the Calendar Number 1779? 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Not at all, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Bruno, did you have any objection? 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. I wasn't aware of that. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 20 can we at this time ask for an immediate meeting 21 of the Rules Committee in Room 332. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 23 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 10048 1 Committee in Room 332. An immediate meeting of 2 the Rules Committee in Room 332. 3 Senator Paterson, do you have any 4 objection to Senator Dollinger changing his vote 5 from the negative to the affirmative on Calendar 6 Number 1779? 7 Hearing no other objections, 8 Senator Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. I believe just for clarity, I 11 believe that was a repeat of a prior vote that I 12 had voted in the negative on, and I wasn't aware 13 of that. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're 15 absolutely correct, Senator Dollinger. The 16 prior vote was a slow roll call. Okay. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Correct. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And then 19 the Majority Leader -- I believe there was a 20 slow roll call. The Majority Leader then -- the 21 Minority Leader and the Majority Leader agreed 22 to the same vote on the subsequent bill on which 23 you were recorded in the negative. You will be 10049 1 recorded in the affirmative with the consent of 2 the Minority Leader and the Majority Leader. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 8 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 9 1785. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the title to Calendar Number 1785. 12 It's on Supplemental Calendar No. 1. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1785, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 15 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11338, an act 16 to amend a chapter of the laws of 1996. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 message was previously adopted. 20 Senator Bruno, an explanation of 21 Calendar Number 1785 has been requested by 22 Senator Hoffmann. 23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 10050 1 what this legislation does, it frees up about 2 $98 million out of the reserves as a result of 3 the legislation that we just passed. Because we 4 are limiting the exposure and limiting the 5 consequent expense, we are freeing up by 6 agreement in both houses and with the Governor, 7 actuarially, $98 million that will be used on 8 behalf of all of the people of this state. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Hoffmann had the floor, Senator Leichter. 12 Senator Hoffmann. 13 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. I have some great misgivings about 15 this measure and really don't feel that it is 16 appropriate to support this because this does 17 something that we have been criticized so many 18 times before for doing. 19 It permits some other entity or 20 organization in this state to act as our revenue 21 agent. As a means of raising $98 million for 22 the General Fund, we would be putting in effect 23 a special surcharge on the Workers' Comp' 10051 1 insurance carriers. 2 Mr. President, I will suspend 3 debate while we have a distinguished visitor on 4 the floor, if that's the will of the chair, 5 while we take time to welcome the Governor. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Well, we 7 allow former colleagues as we have in the past, 8 Senator Hoffmann, to have the opportunity of the 9 floor, but we don't usually suspend debate, so 10 the floor is still yours, Senator Hoffmann. 11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Happy to 12 welcome our distinguished former colleague back 13 to the Senate chamber. 14 Much as we would all like to have 15 $98 million mysteriously appear for the General 16 Fund to do many greatly needed services around 17 this state, I think there is a significant 18 question. Based upon the debate that we have 19 already had and some of the sketchy information 20 available from actuaries or anybody else who is 21 involved in this, this is purely speculative. 22 We really can't be sure that the insurance 23 carriers will realize a savings in that amount 10052 1 -- can we? -- nor is it appropriate for us to 2 create a new form of taxation on them simply as 3 a budget balancing gimmick. But that is all too 4 often the case especially in the closing days of 5 session. 6 I did not want to let this 7 measure go by unnoted because it sticks out like 8 a sore thumb. While we may have done something 9 noble and, in fact, a real compromise in 10 creating a workers' comp solution, while the 11 NYPHRM measure is the result of considerable 12 work and is probably one that we will receive 13 great recognition for, this unfortunately sets 14 the clock back and harkens to an era where this 15 Legislature has been criticized roundly for 16 fiscal gimmickry, back-door borrowing and 17 forcing businesses in this state to act as 18 revenue agents for the State of New York. 19 It is the type of nuisance 20 taxation that drives employers out of the State 21 of New York; therefore, I will be registering a 22 no vote on 1785, Mr. President. 23 Thank you. 10053 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 2 Senators wishing to speak on Calendar Number 3 1785? 4 Senator Leichter. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 6 this is -- this is really pure Albany chutzpah. 7 Here we just said we've got to reduce the burden 8 on the employers and we need -- we're not in a 9 position to help the workers. Then we say look 10 at the wonderful thing we've done in freeing up 11 money, so we raid that $98 million that could 12 have gone to give more benefits to workers, $98 13 million, which I understand is just about equal 14 with what the projected savings are in making 15 the changes in Dole versus Dow. 16 I realize it's a little hard to 17 discuss this. We have our distinguished former 18 colleague here, the Governor, and all I can say 19 when he was here as a state Senator, he used to 20 vote against these gimmicks. He spoke against 21 them. He thought they were wrong. I guess 22 things change when you get to the second floor, 23 but if there's ever an example of playing 10054 1 sleight of hand, this is really it. This is 2 worse than the three-card monte people that you 3 find on Fifth Avenue. 4 We have just done, by the 5 previous bill, all these wonderful things, so 6 Senator Bruno tells us, and then with the next 7 bill we grab this money, one shot, put it into 8 general revenue, and I hear Senator Bruno say 9 what a wonderful thing we're doing for the 10 taxpayers. We have just stolen this money. 11 It's terrible. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can we have 13 some order, Mr. President? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger, do you want to speak on this bill? 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can we have 17 some order? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 19 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 20 Hearing none, the Secretary will 21 read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect on the same date as a 10055 1 chapter of the laws of 1996. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 6 the negative. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 8 President, just to explain my vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, did you wish to record -- Senator 11 Paterson, did you wish to record a party line 12 vote in the negative? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 14 President, a party line vote in the negative. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my 16 vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will record the Democrat party line vote in the 19 negative. 20 Chair recognizes Senator 21 Dollinger to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President, I welcome our distinguished guest, as 10056 1 well. I think he and I were the only guys, with 2 Senator Jones, who voted against a whole series 3 of budgets that were laden with one-shots just 4 like this one. 5 I would extend him the invitation 6 since he's in the chamber to come back one more 7 time, take that seat across from me and boldly 8 do what he did when he was here: Vote against 9 all these one-shots just like this raiding these 10 funds created by other people's money to use for 11 the state of New York. 12 I'd invite the Governor -- he's 13 got his chance -- veto this bill. Do what you 14 would have done sitting in that chair in this 15 chamber. I extend him that option. I extend 16 him that choice now. I know he would be joining 17 with the Minority on this vote in this case. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative. 20 Senator Paterson, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 I am also recorded in the negative. I don't 10057 1 even know who I'm talking to now, Mr. President, 2 but as long as you are hearing me I want to be 3 recorded in the negative. This $98 million 4 return to the General Fund which expires in 5 March of 1997 is really one last drink before we 6 leave this process, and so how we could offer a 7 piece of legislation and then in a sense 8 diminish it by this amendment is just beyond me, 9 because we're stating policy on one hand and 10 then taking the teeth out of it in another. 11 There is a total of $120 million 12 that would be returned from the Dole v. Dow 13 changes, which I opposed in the first place. 14 Ninety-eight million of it will go to the 15 General Fund, not proportionally but based on 16 the reserves the employers get from Dole v. 17 Dow. So the employers aren't even going to 18 benefit in this first year. It's one last raid. 19 It's one last perpetuation of 20 something that we got up here today and said 21 that we opposed, and I'm opposed to it. 22 I vote no, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 10058 1 the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 26, nays 22, 3 party vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 may we return to reports of standing committees. 9 I believe you have one from the Finance 10 Committee at the desk. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do, 12 Senator Present. 13 We will return to the order of 14 standing committees, and ask that the Secretary 15 read the report of the Senate Finance Committee. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 17 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 18 following bills: 19 Senate Print 6832B, by Senator 20 Rath, an act to amend the Tax Law; 21 7953, by the Senate Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend the Environmental 23 Conservation Law; 10059 1 Assembly Print 11335, by the 2 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 3 Education Law; 4 Assembly 11336A, by the Assembly 5 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 6 Transportation Law; and 7 Assembly Print 11340, by the 8 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 9 Public Authorities Law. 10 All bills ordered directly for 11 third reading. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Present. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Without objection, the report of 16 the Senate Finance Committee bills are reported 17 directly to third reading. 18 Senator Present. 19 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 20 can we take up Supplemental Calendar No. 2 21 noncontroversial. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the noncontroversial reading of 10060 1 Supplemental Calendar No. 2, which is on all of 2 the members' desks as are all of the bills that 3 are included on the calendar. 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1789, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 6832B, an 7 act to amend the Tax Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 14 accept it. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 16 to accept the message of necessity at the desk 17 on Calendar Number 1789. All those in favor, 18 signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed, nay. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Message is accepted. 23 The Secretary will read the last 10061 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 Announce the results when 8 tabulated. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 10 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 14 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance 15 Assembly Bill Number 11337 and substitute it for 16 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1790. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Substitution is ordered. 19 Secretary will read the title. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1790, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Print 11337, an act to amend the 23 Environmental Conservation Law. 10062 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I move we 7 accept the message. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 9 to accept the message of necessity at the desk 10 on Calendar Number 1790. All those in favor, 11 signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The message is accepted. 16 The Secretary will read the last 17 section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the same date as a 20 chapter of the laws of 1996. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10063 1 Announce the results when 2 tabulated. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 4 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 6 passed. 7 Secretary will continue to read. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1791, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 10 Assembly Print 11335, an act to amend the 11 Education Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 15 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 18 accept the message. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 21 the desk on Calendar Number 1791. All those in 22 favor, signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 10064 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Message is accepted. 4 Secretary will read the last 5 section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 Secretary will continue to read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1792, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print 11336A, an act to amend the 15 Transportation Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 21 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 22 accept the message. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10065 1 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 2 Calendar Number 1792 which is at the desk. All 3 those in favor, signify by saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Message is accepted. 8 The Secretary will read the last 9 section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Secretary will continue to read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1793, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 21 Assembly Print 11340, an act to amend the Public 22 Authorities Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10066 1 Present. 2 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 3 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 5 SENATOR PRESENT: I move that we 6 accept the message. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 9 Calendar Number 1793 which is at the desk. All 10 those in favor, signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The message is accepted. 15 The Secretary will read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10067 1 is passed. 2 Senator Present. 3 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 4 I believe you have a nomination at the desk. I 5 move that we move the nomination of Michael 6 Axelrod. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do 8 have a report of the Finance Committee at the 9 desk. 10 We'll ask the Secretary to read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 12 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 13 following nomination: 14 Member of the Waterfront 15 Commission of New York Harbor, Michael Axelrod, 16 of Roslyn. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 18 recognizes Senator Tully on the nomination. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 I am pleased to second the 22 nomination of Michael Axelrod as a member of the 23 Waterfront Commission of New York Harbor. He is 10068 1 a constituent of mine with fine academic 2 credentials. He's the former editor of the Law 3 Review in his law school. He's an active trial 4 attorney who has been involved both as a 5 prosecutor and defense attorney, serving as a 6 member of the Legal Aid Society as well as a 7 former assistant district attorney. 8 He will be a fine addition to the 9 Waterfront Commission. I'm pleased to second 10 his nomination. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 question is on the nomination. All those in 13 favor, signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The nominee is confirmed. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you call 22 up Calendar Number 1791. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10069 1 will read Calendar Number 1791, page 1, 2 Supplemental Calendar 2. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1791, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 5 Assembly Print 11335. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 message was previously accepted. 8 Senator Connor. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: I'm sorry. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Mendez, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR MENDEZ: Mr. President, 13 there's going to be a Democratic Minority 14 conference in Room 3-1-4, 314, now. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 16 meeting of the Minority Conference in the 17 Minority Conference Room 314. That means now. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Johnson, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 22 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 22. 10070 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Johnson, we're on a bill on debate right this 3 moment. If you'll hold on while we decide what 4 we're going to do with that bill. 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Okay. I'll 6 wait, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Bruno, did you wish us to lay Calendar Number 9 1791 aside for the time being? 10 Calendar Number 1791 will be laid 11 aside temporarily. 12 Senator Johnson. 13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 14 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 22 which passed 16 earlier today. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 18 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Johnson 19 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 20 Number 22. 21 Senator Bruno. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 23 can we recognize Senator Montgomery? 10071 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Montgomery. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 4 President. I would like unanimous consent to be 5 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1607. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 8 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 9 Calendar Number 1607. 10 Return to the order of motions 11 and resolutions. There is a privileged 12 resolution at the desk, Senator Bruno, we could 13 take up at this time if you so desire. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 15 can we read the title of the resolution by 16 Senator Lachman and move its adoption. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I ask the 18 Secretary to read the title of the privileged 19 resolution by Senator Lachman. 20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 21 Lachman, Legislative Resolution commemorating 22 the 35th wedding anniversary of Dr. Martin and 23 Alma Genzler. 10072 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 2 is on the resolution. All those in favor of the 3 resolution, signify by saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 The resolution is adopted. 8 Senator Bruno, we do have a 9 report of the Rules Committee if you would like 10 to take that up at this time. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we do that at 12 this time, Mr. President. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 15 the order of reports of standing committees. 16 I'll ask the Secretary to read 17 the report of the Rules Committee. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 19 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 20 following bills: 21 Senate Print 2445B, by Senator 22 Volker, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 23 and Rules; 10073 1 7738, by Senator Hoblock, an act 2 to amend the Civil Service Law; 3 2439B, by Senator Stavisky, an 4 act to amend the Social Services Law; 5 6335A, by Senator Seward, 6 Volunteer Firemen's Benefit Law; 7 7864A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 8 to amend the Chapter of the Laws of 1996; 9 7890A, by the Senate Committee on 10 Rules, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 11 Law; 12 7959, by Senator Libous, an act 13 to amend the Tax Law; 14 7960, by Senator Lack, an act to 15 amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 16 7961, by Senator Cook, an act to 17 provide for the intercept of state aid; 18 7962, by the Senate Committee on 19 Rules, an act to amend the Workers' Compensation 20 Law and the Insurance Law; 21 7963, by the Senate Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 23 Security Law; 10074 1 Assembly Print 11271, by the 2 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to allow 3 members of New York State employee retirement 4 system; and 5 Assembly Print 11308A, by the 6 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 7 Civil Practice Law and Rules. 8 All bills ordered directly for 9 third reading. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to accept the report of the Rules 12 Committee. All those in favor, signify by 13 saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The Rules report is accepted. 18 All bills are ordered directly to third 19 reading. 20 (Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the 21 Senate recessed until 3:35 p.m.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 23 will come to order. Ask the members to find 10075 1 their places. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this 3 time take up Calendar Number -- we were voting 4 on Calendar 1791. Can we resume discussion on 5 1791. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We need 7 to put the bill before the house, Senator Bruno, 8 first. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the title to Calendar 1791. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1791, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print Number 11335, an act to amend the 15 Education Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Message 17 was previously accepted. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: Last section. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10076 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 8 can we now take up Supplemental Calendar No. 3, 9 noncontroversial. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 11 Supplemental Calendar No. 3 is on the members' 12 desks together with the bills reported earlier 13 from the Rules Committee which are contained 14 therein. 15 Secretary will read the 16 noncontroversial reading of Supplemental 17 Calendar No. 3, commencing with Calendar Number 18 434, by Senator Volker. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker 20 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 21 Assembly Bill Number 4000B and substitute it for 22 the identical Third Reading Calendar 434. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10077 1 Substitution is ordered. 2 Secretary will read the title. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 434, by Member of the Assembly Canestrari, 5 Assembly Print 4000B, an act to amend the Civil 6 Practice Law and Rules. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoblock 18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 19 Assembly Bill Number 11031 and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1544. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Substitution is ordered. 23 Secretary will read the title. 10078 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1544, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 3 Assembly Print 11031, an act to amend the Civil 4 Service Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky 16 moves to discharge from the Committee on Social 17 Services Assembly Bill Number 4011B and 18 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 19 Calendar 1794. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 10079 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward 3 moves to discharge from the Committee on Local 4 Government Assembly Bill Number 9218A and 5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6 Calendar 1795. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Substitution is ordered. 9 Secretary will read the title. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1795, by Member of the Assembly Magee, Assembly 12 Print 9218A, an act to amend the Volunteer 13 Firefighters' Benefit Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 10080 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo 2 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 3 Assembly Bill Number 11159 and substitute it for 4 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1796. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Substitution is ordered. 7 Secretary will read the title. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1796, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 10 Assembly Print 11159, an act to amend a Chapter 11 of the Laws of 1996. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 15 act shall take effect on the same day as a 16 chapter of the laws of 1996. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 10081 1 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 2 Assembly Bill Number 11254A and substitute it 3 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 1797. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 6 the title. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1797, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 11254A, an act to amend 10 Real Property Tax Law. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 15 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 16 Assembly Bill Number 11225 and substitute it for 17 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1798. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 19 Substitution is ordered. 20 Secretary will read the title. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay it 22 aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10082 1 will read the title. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1798, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Print 11225, an act to amend the Tax 5 Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1799, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 7960, an act 10 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 12 message at the desk, Mr. President? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 15 the message. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 18 the desk on Calendar Number 1799. All those in 19 favor, signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 Opposed nay. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Message is accepted. 10083 1 Secretary will read the last 2 section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 Announce the results when 9 tabulated. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 11 Senator DiCarlo recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 13 passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1800, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 7961, an act 16 to provide for the intercept of state aid. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Lay it aside. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Bruno. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 22 message at the desk? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 10084 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 2 the message. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 5 Calendar Number 1800. All those in favor, 6 signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Message is accepted. 11 Lay the bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1801, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 14 Print 7962, an act to amend the Workers' 15 Compensation Law and the Insurance Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 19 message at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 22 the message. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10085 1 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 2 Calendar Number 1901. All those in favor, 3 signify by saying aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Message is accepted. 8 Secretary will read the last 9 section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect January 1. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1802, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Print 7963, an act to amend the Retirement and 21 Social Security Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Bruno. 10086 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 2 message at the desk, Mr. President? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 5 the message. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 8 Calendar Number 1802. All those in favor, 9 signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed, nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message is accepted. 14 The Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 10087 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1803, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 3 Assembly Print 11271, an act to allow members of 4 the New York State Employees Retirement System. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 13 President. I'm sorry, Mr. President. Would you 14 hold - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter, we're on a roll call. We're in the 17 middle of a roll call. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: First of all, 19 I want that bill laid aside, 1803. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1803. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: I ask that it 22 be laid aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 10088 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: And then, Mr. 2 President, Calendar 1802, would you please 3 reconsider the vote by which that bill passed. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 5 have some desire with regard to Calendar Number 6 1802, Senator Leichter? 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you lay 8 that bill aside after we reconsider the vote. 9 Have we reconsidered the vote? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to reconsider the vote by which 12 Calendar Number 1802 passed the house. 13 The Secretary will call the roll 14 on reconsideration. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1802, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Print 7963, an act to amend the Retirement and 18 Social Security law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay the bill 20 aside, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll on 10089 1 reconsideration.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: 1803 has been 6 laid aside, Mr. President? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 8 correct. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will continue to call the noncontroversial 12 calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1804, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 15 Assembly Print 11308A, an act to amend the Civil 16 Practice Law and Rules. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 20 message at the desk, Mr. President? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 23 the message. 10090 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 motion is to accept the message of necessity at 3 the desk on Calendar Number 1804. All those in 4 favor, signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The message is accepted. 9 The Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect in 30 days. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 17 Senator DiCarlo recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 (The Senate stood at ease from 21 3:45 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: A little 23 order in the house, please. Coming close to the 10091 1 end here. Let's make sure we can all hear it. 2 Senator Bruno. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 4 can we at this time ask that we have the last 5 Rules Committee in Room 332. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 8 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules 9 Committee, the last one for today, in Room 332, 10 the Majority Conference Room. Immediate meeting 11 of the Rules Committee, Majority Conference 12 Room, Room 332. 13 Order in the house, please. 14 Senator Bruno. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 16 Can we now go to the controversial calendar and 17 take up Calendar 1798. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title to Calendar Number 1798, 20 controversial reading of the bill. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1798, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Print 11225, an act to amend the Tax 10092 1 Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 5 might we hold that bill for a couple of minutes 6 for - 7 (It was indicated Senator 8 Oppenheimer was present.) 9 Yes, but Senator Leichter 10 specifically asked that it be held, and he is 11 not here. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Paterson, do you want Senator Oppenheimer to 14 share the cheese with you while she's talking? 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, if we 16 can have an explanation, I'll think about that. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Libous, an explanation of Calendar Number 1798 19 has been asked for by Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 Basically what this bill will do 23 is it will provide a $75 tax credit per ton for 10093 1 the beneficial use of newly generated waste 2 tires, and also will generate $100 tax credit 3 per ton for the beneficial use of stockpiled 4 waste tires. There is a facility that now 5 presently exists in my district that would 6 probably be closed by the end of the year and 7 that would have a negative effect on about 40 8 people who have jobs there, and this bill is 9 definitely needed. It passed the Assembly 10 earlier this morning to keep that facility 11 running. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Oppenheimer. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If the 15 sponsor would yield for a few questions? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Libous, do you yield? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would be happy 19 to, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 is happy to yield. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Actually, 23 you and I were talking earlier about the 10094 1 environmental impact, but I have a question 2 concerning -- isn't this a fairly large utility 3 company that runs this plant? 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct, 5 Mr. President. The plant is run by NYSEG, New 6 York State Electric and Gas. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you will 8 continue to yield. What is the problem here? 9 They have been doing this you say for years? 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: One of the 11 problems is - 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Why is 13 there a need to do this? 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Certainly. 15 There are two facilities in the state like this 16 that do a good job at burning tires to generate 17 this into energy, okay, and it's done 18 environmentally sound because they have gotten 19 excellent ratings from OSHA and DEC as far as 20 the process that's taking place. 21 The problem is it is a very 22 costly process and it's very hard to stay 23 competitive. In order to keep this facility 10095 1 open, they need this opportunity especially with 2 the number of tires that are coming in and the 3 disposal of these tires in turning it into 4 energy. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: So then if 6 I'm hearing correctly, you are saying that the 7 plant is losing money and that is why we must - 8 and that sending an increased number of tires 9 would make them lose more money? 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 11 I'm having a difficult time hearing the 12 Senator's questions because of the little bit of 13 background noise. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Let's 15 keep the noise down. Let's keep the noise down. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, would 17 you please ask that question again? 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Okay. 19 Thanks, Senator Libous. I'm trying to 20 understand. You are saying sending increased 21 numbers of tires would make them lose more 22 money. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: No, no. I'm not 10096 1 saying that. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm not 3 understanding the economics here. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm saying it's 5 very expensive to take these tires -- which 6 right now are being stockpiled and posing a 7 problem to the environment -- and turning them 8 into energy, so there is a tremendous cost 9 that's involved in this. 10 It's environmentally sound. It's 11 doing good things for the environment, but it's 12 just too costly to keep this operation going. 13 So there's a tax credit that's needed to keep 14 this going so we don't have tires being burned 15 in fields and stockpiled in streams and thrown 16 on the roadside, and this is why we're doing 17 this bill. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Then the 19 next question would be - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Do you 21 continue to yield, Senator Libous? 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you will 10097 1 yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The next 5 question would be, aren't tax credits usually 6 used for something new, not for something that 7 is up and running? This is not a new facility. 8 You mentioned it's been open for several years. 9 This is not a new usage for the tax credits. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: That's correct. 11 We want to keep the facility open because the 12 type of service that is being provided there is 13 environmentally sound, and it's good for the 14 environment. 15 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: That is 16 questionable. 17 I know that this bill went 18 through Ways and Means in the other house. Why 19 did it not go through Finance in this house, 20 because it does have financial implications; and 21 the second part of the question is, how much is 22 it going to cost the state? 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: There is an 10098 1 estimate of approximately two million dollars. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 3 think I would like to talk briefly, if I may, on 4 the subject. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Oppenheimer, on the bill. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Actually 8 not on the bill. I would like Senator Libous to 9 yield now to a few environmental questions, if 10 he would. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm sorry. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 is asking you to yield to a question, Senator 14 Libous. Do you yield? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Absolutely. I 16 have nowhere to go, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Libous will yield. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: You have 20 nowhere else to go; right? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Nowhere else to 22 go. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 10099 1 environmental questions that we were discussing 2 earlier are still with me. I just got off on 3 another track with the economic issue, because I 4 was wondering why this was happening. 5 Do you know how many facilities 6 currently are applying for this tax credit? Is 7 it singularly this one plant, or is there more? 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 9 there are presently two facilities in the state, 10 one here and one in the metropolis of Corning, I 11 believe. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Do you have 13 any idea what air pollutants are released into 14 the air with the burning of these tires? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 16 this particular piece of legislation deals with 17 the tax benefit for this facility as it pertains 18 to the usage per ton. Any environmental 19 questions -- the facility has been open for a 20 number of years, as I said. I am told and I 21 have no reason not to believe those agencies 22 that are telling me that they are running a good 23 facility. Both of these facilities are running 10100 1 environmentally sound. 2 So to get into the specifics of 3 carcinogens and all that kind of thing, this 4 bill does not deal with that. If there were 5 problems, I'm sure the DEC would have closed 6 this facility down years ago. But, obviously, 7 they have not. 8 What this is dealing with is 9 financial impact. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: The 11 question is really -- through you, Mr. 12 President. Who certifies that this is 13 environmentally sound? Because in most places 14 in this country, it is seen as not sound to burn 15 tires and, indeed, other usages -- new usages 16 have been found that are felt to be very 17 beneficial environmentally. For example, in 18 California, in Texas, in Florida, they chip up 19 the rubber tires and use them as part of road 20 beds. That is considered environmentally 21 sound. I would like to know who is suggesting 22 that burning tires - 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 10101 1 this has been DEC approved. The DEC, Department 2 of Environmental Conservation of New York State, 3 are -- I believe they would have closed the 4 facility if there has been a problem. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I am 6 concerned. On the bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Oppenheimer, on the bill. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you 10 for answering my questions, Senator Libous. 11 I guess the bottom line is that, 12 number one, I feel that the tax credits should 13 be used to find new usages that are 14 environmentally sound for new businesses, and 15 there certainly is an answer because we know 16 that tires have many usages and they can be 17 recycled and they can be reused, and that is 18 considered very environmentally sound. 19 And so to continue a usage that 20 is questionable at best I think is not sound and 21 the environmental community thinks is not sound, 22 and so I will not be supporting this, and I urge 23 those who feel as I do that this is not 10102 1 appropriate usage of our state money. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 3 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 4 Senator Cook. 5 SENATOR COOK: This facility that 6 is being addressed in this bill, Senator, we 7 had, as do many areas, immense problems with 8 waste tires all over the place. Nobody knew 9 what to do with them. County landfill was 10 getting filled up with them. They were along 11 the roadsides. This plant has cleaned up that 12 problem. 13 We don't have all the stuff going 14 into the landfill. The countryside has been 15 cleaned up. It is a textbook operation, an 16 excellent, excellent operation but it loses 17 money. 18 Now, we have the alternative. We 19 can close it down, put those tires back in the 20 landfill, and pay for it there or we can have a 21 credit which enables this facility to keep 22 operating, and I think considering the record 23 that we have for an environmentally clean 10103 1 operation which has been monitored constantly by 2 the Department of Environmental Conservation, 3 this is an excellent program, and I think it is 4 a good investment. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 Record the negatives. Announce 13 the results. 14 Chair recognizes Senator 15 Oppenheimer to explain her vote. 16 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 17 I understand what you are saying, Senator Cook, 18 and what you are saying, Senator Libous. I, of 19 course, do not want the tires in the landfill. 20 Who does? What I am saying is there is a vast 21 industry that is growing in the recycling reuse 22 field. This is a multi-billion dollar industry 23 that we should be drawing to our state as much 10104 1 as possible and, therefore, what should be 2 created is a plant that will turn these tires 3 into chips to be used for roadbeds and many 4 other uses, and it should not be buried and it 5 should not be burned. 6 And so I will be voting no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative. 9 Results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1798 are 12 Senators Connor, Gold, Goodman, Hoblock, 13 Hoffmann, LaValle, Leibell, Leichter, Levy, 14 Markowitz, Nanula, Onorato, Oppenheimer, 15 Padavan, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith, Stachowski, 16 Tully, Waldon, also Senator Montgomery. Ayes 17 37, nays 21. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 (There was a pause in the 22 proceedings.) 23 Senator Bruno. 10105 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 2 Can we at this time take up Calendar Number 3 1800. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the title to Calendar Number 1800, by 6 Senator Cook. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1800, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 7961, an act 9 to provide for the intercept of state aid. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 message was previously accepted. 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, I'm not 14 going to spend much time asking questions of 15 Senator Cook. I've just got a comment on the 16 bill, although, Senator, if you want to make any 17 explanatory comments on it, I will yield to you. 18 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, let 19 me just put this in context. 20 Under federal law, the city of 21 New York was ordered to filter its water system, 22 and the cost was going to be in the magnitude 23 variously estimated at 4- to $8 billion which 10106 1 was something, of course, the City was quite 2 concerned about. They asked for a waiver from 3 EPA, and as a condition of that waiver there 4 were various provisions of land use control, 5 land acquisition, et cetera. 6 Resulting from those efforts 7 there was some litigation. The Governor has 8 been attempting to mediate that lawsuit, in 9 effect, and we are reaching the point now where 10 a consent agreement appears to be in the 11 offing. As a part of that consent agreement in 12 which the City would make certain payments in 13 mitigation of some of the damage that they are 14 doing to the economy of the region, the City has 15 agreed to this mechanism of intercept which is, 16 in effect, a guarantee. 17 I won't go into the litany of our 18 experience with the City because you have heard 19 it on other occasions, but on previous 20 agreements that they have made with us, they 21 have not fulfilled their commitments. One 22 administration makes commitments and the next 23 administration simply does not fulfill them. 10107 1 This is an effort by which it can 2 be guaranteed to the people in the watershed 3 that the agreement will be fulfilled. The City 4 has, as I said, their agreement with this 5 mechanism and it will enable, hopefully, all the 6 parties in this lawsuit to now sign a consent 7 agreement which will get EPA off the City's back 8 and enable this whole issue to be brought to a 9 conclusion. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 14 from my understanding of the whole issue of 15 clean water for the city of New York and it's 16 also for Westchester and, frankly, it's for your 17 communities, too, I think you gave us somewhat 18 incomplete and skewed information, Senator 19 Cook. 20 As we know, EPA has stated that 21 the city of New York needs to filter its water 22 unless it does a better job of managing the 23 watershed. The City came up with certain ideas 10108 1 and proposals for that better management, and 2 one of the aspects of it was, as you know, 3 because EPA required that the City go ahead and 4 acquire more land; secondly, that it does a 5 better job in seeing that there aren't runoffs 6 into the water system. 7 If the City had to filter its 8 water and the water of Westchester and your 9 community, it would be an enormous burden not 10 just for the taxpayers of the city of New York 11 but for the whole state. It's a problem that we 12 need to solve as all residents of New York. 13 It's not like a New York City problem and shame 14 on you, New York City, and ha-ha, because it's 15 going to affect every single resident of New 16 York State. 17 In that connection, and I thought 18 to his credit, the Governor stepped in, and I 19 think the Governor's counsel from all reports, 20 Michael Finnegan, really did a good job in 21 bringing people together, and there seemed to be 22 some agreement in principle which is still being 23 worked out. 10109 1 Now, that agreement has not been 2 worked out, and I can not believe -- although I 3 question your statement in principle -- that the 4 city of New York is supporting this bill because 5 it is a very one-sided bill, and until you have 6 a final agreement to provide, as this bill does, 7 that you can intercept City monies and utilize 8 it and take it to fulfill what you consider 9 certain obligations or requirements by the city 10 of New York -- I think until you have the whole 11 agreement, until the City says, "Yes, you can do 12 that," -- I don't think it has done that -- I 13 think this bill is, at most, premature and I 14 think at this time -- frankly, I think it's 15 somewhat harmful to the process of reaching an 16 agreement. 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, if 18 I may, on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Cook. 21 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, one 22 of the bleary-eyed people sitting to my right is 23 my counsel who spent all night writing this bill 10110 1 not because he was enjoying the process but 2 because he had been requested by Michael 3 Finnegan, by the representatives of the city of 4 New York, by the other people who were in the 5 process of negotiating this agreement that you 6 are discussing, that we put this mechanism in 7 place. As you will note, it only takes effect 8 at the point when the City signs a consent 9 agreement. So it is -- and it really only 10 applies to the things that the City agrees in 11 the consent agreement that it is going to do. 12 So it is something that we're doing in order to 13 facilitate the signing of this consent 14 agreement. 15 Now, if we -- you know, if we 16 want this litigation to go on another three and 17 four years, the litigation can, I guess, go on 18 three or four more years; but if people want to 19 bring it to a conclusion, which is what all 20 these discussions are attempting to do, then 21 we've got to get the pieces in place so that can 22 happen. 23 I have to tell you, Senator, this 10111 1 is being done in an atmosphere of cooperation. 2 It is not being done in a punitive manner, but 3 it is being done in a way so one of the elements 4 of a very complicated agreement can fall into 5 place so that we can proceed and get the rest of 6 it put together. 7 I have to tell you, Senator, 8 without this bill, the probability of that 9 agreement coming together is very minimal. 10 Without this piece, it is improbable that all 11 the parties will agree to the conditions of the 12 consent agreement which is being drafted. 13 That's why it's crucial. 14 Agreed, if we were going to be 15 here a month from now, maybe we could do it a 16 month from now. We're not going to be here. 17 That's why this is important. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 19 you would be so good as to yield? 20 SENATOR COOK: Certainly. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Am I not 22 correct, this is a one-house bill? The Assembly 23 hasn't passed it. It's gone home. It's not 10112 1 going to become law in any event. 2 SENATOR COOK: Senator, that's 3 not -- that's not necessarily true. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, is it - 5 Senator, with all due respect, if Senator Cook 6 will yield, please, through you Mr. - 7 The Senate is here. The Assembly 8 has gone home. The Assembly has not passed the 9 bill. Is that correct? 10 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 11 That is correct, Senator. However, I can also 12 tell you -- I can't obviously tell you that 13 Speaker Silver was addressed on this, simply 14 because he was not available last night, but 15 there have been discussions with the Assembly on 16 this issue. It is the hope and expectation that 17 at some point the Assembly will be in session 18 and be able to put this together. I think they 19 will do so at the urging of the city of New York 20 because the city of New York wants to have this 21 done, and I think that it -- as I indicated, 22 they are anxious to get this consent agreement 23 put together and this is simply just one piece 10113 1 of that whole process. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator Cook, 3 and maybe I'm wrong. You can respond to this, 4 if you will. I have sort of the sense listening 5 to what you are saying that this is sort of 6 meant to be partly a club over the city of New 7 York to get them to come to an agreement and, as 8 we know, that agreement which was announced with 9 much fanfare in principle is having some 10 difficulty working out the details. That often 11 happens, and I don't say that critically, but I 12 want to tell you that before I and, I think, 13 other residents of the city of New York could 14 vote for a bill that would authorize the 15 intercept of money at a time that the City signs 16 an agreement without our having seen that 17 agreement, without the comptroller of the city 18 of New York, who has been very much involved in 19 all of the watershed issues, saying that this is 20 the responsible thing to do -- we're talking 21 about millions and millions of dollars of City's 22 money here. And without knowing -- I would like 23 to see, at the very least, a memorandum by the 10114 1 city of New York, has a representative here, and 2 I don't hold you responsible for that. It's not 3 the only issue where I think we ought to have 4 seen a memo and we haven't seen it or should 5 have explained to us that this is something that 6 the mayor presently endorses. 7 So I really think, Senator, that 8 this is very, very premature and while I'm not 9 part of the negotiations whatsoever, I really 10 think, Senator, that this is not going to help 11 those negotiations. I think you are trying to 12 put a club over the city of New York, and I 13 think that's a mistake. 14 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, one 15 final word. Senator, the law does not take 16 effect until a local law is passed by the City 17 Council of the city of New York, and it is being 18 done -- far from being a club against the City, 19 it is frankly being done as a -- as one of the 20 things that will be necessary for all the 21 parties to agree to this thing. It is an effort 22 to help the City and help everybody bring this 23 thing to a conclusion and, frankly, if we don't 10115 1 do this, we're going to be in litigation for a 2 long time. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 4 if Senator Cook would yield one more moment, 5 please. Just one more question. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Cook, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, at 9 the time that that agreement is finalized, it 10 will probably still take some time to do that, 11 and it's a very complex agreement. I suspect 12 it's going to need a fair amount of legislation. 13 It's certainly going to need action within the 14 city of New York. As you say, it's going to 15 need action by the City Council. There are some 16 of those who, like me, will insist that we know 17 what the position of the comptroller of the city 18 of New York is. Why not do it at that time? 19 Senator, why pass this bill now, 20 sort of, "Well, in the future if this and this 21 and this happens, then it goes into effect" and 22 without even providing for all the eventualities 23 that we would like to see, even the very fact 10116 1 that you and I as representatives of our 2 districts and of the state of New York, we would 3 like to know what that final agreement is. 4 Why should I vote now for 5 something that's going to allow the intercept of 6 City money when I don't know what that agreement 7 is? 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, i 9 can only give you the final answer, Senator, 10 that there is litigation under way that is 11 attempting to be resolved by a consent 12 agreement. That consent agreement will not be 13 signed without this piece, and if we ever want 14 to bring this thing to a conclusion, this bill 15 has to be passed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Padavan. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 Senator Leichter, my initial 21 reaction to this bill was very similar to 22 yours. However, I did take the time to seek out 23 the mayor's representative here in Albany to 10117 1 request directly from him as to what the mayor's 2 position was. I will share that response with 3 you. 4 It was that the mayor would like 5 this bill to be passed. He considers it an 6 integral part of the negotiations that have been 7 referred to by you and Senator Cook. He feels 8 that the safeguard in here of local law enacted 9 by the City Council enables -- provides for a 10 level of protection, if you will, against 11 anything being done in regard to the flow of 12 these funds in a manner that would be 13 detrimental to the City. 14 Now, obviously, that's not going 15 to satisfy everything you had to say, but, 16 nevertheless, I thought you should be aware of 17 that fact. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 19 just briefly responding to Senator Padavan. 20 Senator Padavan, I thank you for 21 that, and I want to tell you that at least it 22 soothes the curious doubt that I had about this 23 bill and sort of replaces it now with a healthy 10118 1 skepticism. 2 I would still feel a lot more 3 comfortable if that bill came before us when we 4 had a signed agreement; we knew the terms of the 5 agreement; we had a home rule message; the 6 comptroller of the city of New York said to us, 7 "This is City money. I've got a responsibility 8 over City money and I'll tell you, yes, this is 9 a good bill to pass." 10 Let's do it at that time. Let's 11 not jump ahead and do it and particularly since 12 at the present time it's definitely a one-house 13 bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 Record the negatives and announce 22 the results. 23 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 10119 1 President, explain my vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Stachowski, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I'm going to 5 vote along with Senator Cook on this because I 6 happen to believe he and Senator Padavan. I 7 just find it amazing, though, that there's been 8 a captive audience for three days and, 9 apparently, the representative of the city of 10 New York didn't have any idea where to find the 11 20-some members that represent the city of New 12 York that are on the Democrat side. I think he 13 could have avoided this debate, and everybody in 14 this chamber would have felt much better, but 15 obviously he was too busy sitting some place 16 else than to walk down the hall and grab one of 17 these people and explain the bill to them. 18 I vote yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Stachowski will be recorded in the affirmative. 21 Announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 23 the negative on Calendar Number 1800 are 10120 1 Senators Connor, Gold, Leichter, Markowitz, 2 Mendez, Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Seabrook, 3 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 47. Nays 11. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 8 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 9 1802. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read Calendar Number 1802. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1802, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 14 Print 7963, an act to amend the Retirement and 15 Social Security Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 19 President. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10121 1 Stafford, explanation. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 3 I will yield to Senator Hannon for a brief 4 explanation of a portion and we also have a 5 portion of another portion -- excuse me, 6 Senator, by all means -- excuse me, Senator 7 Nozzolio, for additional parts of the bill. I'm 8 sure that either one could proceed, Senator 9 Hannon and then Senator Nozzolio. That will be 10 wonderful. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: May we 12 have a little order in the house so we can hear 13 the explanation that's been requested? 14 Senator Nozzolio. 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 16 thank you, Senator Stafford. 17 The measure before us renews our 18 commitment, continues our commitment to the 19 brave men and women who work in our correctional 20 facilities across this state. We are trying to, 21 through this legislation, remedy an inequity 22 that exists in the law where members of earlier 23 tiers have different compensation for if they're 10122 1 injured on the job than those in the tiers that 2 follow. 3 This legislation removes that 4 inequity. It serves our commitment to those 5 brave men and women who work in our correctional 6 facilities, and I particularly want to thank 7 those members, especially Senator Stafford, who 8 worked so hard in bringing this matter to the 9 floor today. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman 14 formerly from Ithaca yield to a question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Nozzolio, do you yield? 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I heard 20 your explanation of the bill, and I'm just 21 curious. The explanation that you gave, was 22 that -- this is 7963, am I correct? It's a 40 - 23 wait a minute, 47-page bill, am I correct? Am I 10123 1 on the right bill? 2 Your explanation, I think, was 3 the first two pages, am I correct? 4 SENATOR HANNON: You want to - 5 SENATOR GOLD: Am I correct? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: My portion, 7 Senator Gold and Mr. President, through you, was 8 the portion which dealt with those correction 9 officers. 10 SENATOR GOLD: O.K. I thank you 11 very much, Senator, so if I understand it 12 properly in other words, there is a lot more to 13 this bill than the first two pages which you've 14 explained and now Senator Hannon is going to 15 explain the rest of the bill. 16 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Then I would 18 certainly yield to Senator Hannon. 19 SENATOR HANNON: Section 6 of the 20 bill would provide that in Westchester and in 21 Nassau there be respective public benefit 22 corporations set up to provide for the health 23 care of -- from the public health hospitals of 10124 1 those counties. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 3 will the Senator yield to a question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Hannon, do you yield to a question from Senator 6 Gold? 7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Hannon, I 11 don't want to be so presumptuous to say that 12 this is the first time I've seen anything like 13 this because there may have been something, and 14 it's not that relevant, but my understanding is 15 that there was a bill that I think even passed 16 the Assembly which dealt with the subject matter 17 as described by Senator Nozzolio, and that took 18 about two and a half pages. This document which 19 I have in my hand is dated July 13th, and my 20 watch seems to tell me it's July 13th, so 21 apparently it didn't exist on July 12th, 22 yesterday, and I don't know whether it was 23 printed after the Assembly left or as they were 10125 1 leaving, but what does the -- what does page 3 2 through page 47 have to do with pages 1 and 2, 3 if anything? 4 SENATOR HANNON: They follow in 5 numerical order, and they deal with tiering and 6 they deal with - 7 SENATOR GOLD: I couldn't have 8 asked for a better answer. That is a fabulous 9 answer because that's about all they do have in 10 common, is that correct? 11 SENATOR HANNON: I didn't finish 12 my answer, Senator. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, I'm sorry. 14 SENATOR HANNON: And they deal 15 with the care of some of the people of the state 16 of New York, as do - 17 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR HANNON: They deal with 20 the care of some of the people of the state of 21 New York, as does the preliminary portion of the 22 bill. 23 SENATOR GOLD: They deal with 10126 1 care. They take care of people. 2 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, will Senator 4 Hannon yield to a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You 6 continue to yield? 7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Aside from that - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Aside from the 12 fact that every single bill that we ever deal 13 with takes care of somebody or something in the 14 state of New York, in terms of germaneness, and 15 I know, Senator, that once you put a piece of 16 paper together I'm not going to say, I don't 17 know whether technically we have an objection, 18 but you being a scholar, isn't it a fact that 19 when you get past page two and a half, the rest 20 of this bill has no germaneness to the first two 21 and a half pages? 22 SENATOR HANNON: No. 23 SENATOR GOLD: O.K. Mr. 10127 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold, on the bill. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I'm not 5 going to spar with Senator Hannon. It's 6 ridiculous. 7 Senator -- I don't want to put 8 Senator Hannon into a position where he has to 9 spar. I respect Senator Hannon for trying to do 10 something for his community and he certainly 11 doesn't have to apologize to me or anybody else 12 for trying to do something for his community, 13 but I do resent this bill for a number of 14 reasons. 15 The Majority Leader of this house 16 is a good businessman, and when he came into his 17 leadership position, he made a strong effort to 18 make this house take on some of the better types 19 of operations that a business would do. We start 20 on time, et cetera, et cetera. We don't work 21 quite as late into the night as the other house, 22 although last night was not exactly early, but 23 in the spirit of doing things in a businesslike 10128 1 way and in a fair way, we have gone through a 2 budget process and people have signed off on a 3 budget, and then after the Assembly has 4 basically gone from us, to put out a bill which 5 has these kinds of numbers in them and a bill 6 which is 47 pages long, and I will vote no for 7 -- for many reasons, but one reason surely is 8 that if the shoe is on the other foot, no bright 9 businessman like Joe Bruno would put his stamp 10 of approval on 47 legal pages, and you take a 11 look at these pages. I'm not -- I'm not 12 suggesting a page that changes a word so that 13 somebody says, Well, you know, you've got to 14 print the whole section because it's got to be 15 in context, or you have to do the whole section 16 in order to change the one word. 17 This looks to me like 47 pages of 18 new language, and I guarantee you that once you 19 get past the word "trust" and if you want to say 20 we trust our counsel, so let's vote on it 21 because the counsels told me it did something, 22 there isn't one member aside from perhaps 23 Senator Hannon who may have drafted or proposed 10129 1 this kind of legislation which comes before us 2 only introduced today, I don't think anybody 3 really knows what this does or the implications 4 of it. 5 This is the kind of thing where 6 years ago you would have a bill in the bottom 7 drawer of the Leader's desk and say, My God, we 8 haven't introduced that yet. He says, Don't 9 worry about it, last day of session, we'll get 10 it printed pretty quick. 11 I really don't believe that this 12 is the way to do this. I think it's an 13 imposition on the chamber and, as I say, I 14 certainly don't resent Senator Hannon for trying 15 for his constituents. We all do it, but it is 16 clear that the first part of this bill 17 represents something that has been discussed and 18 something that should be done and, in fact, 19 Senator Bruno, I believe there's an Assembly 20 bill that could be handed down that could take 21 care of Senator Nozzolio's problem and 22 explanation, and I would support you, Senator 23 Nozzolio. 10130 1 Over the years, we've had a lot 2 of coupling and over the years we have had bills 3 that say 60 or 80 things, many of the budget 4 bills, one bill does hundreds of things, and you 5 are placed in the position where, if you want to 6 do some of those things, you may have to take 7 some of the good with the bad, but this is 8 really, really way out of line. 9 This is suggesting that if we 10 want to do something for the people who are very 11 deserving and who deal with pages two and three, 12 we have to give away an awful lot of money to 13 two communities without any real opportunity for 14 most of us to be able to deal with the merits of 15 these proposals. 16 I think it's the wrong thing to 17 do. I think that from the point of view of 18 Senator Bruno who has tried for two years -- and 19 I don't agree with everything he's done and 20 that's for sure, but who has tried for two years 21 to get words like "change" and words like 22 "reform" and words like "businesslike" into the 23 vocabulary of how this house operates, I think 10131 1 this is a step backwards and I don't think it 2 ought to be one of the final things that we do 3 in this legislative chamber. 4 I don't think, Senator Bruno, in 5 justice to what you tried to do you want people 6 leaving this chamber saying, Uh-uh, when all was 7 said and done, you see that last 47 pages that 8 came flying out of Rules at the last minute? 9 So I think it's a mistake. I 10 think that it's a step backward and we shouldn't 11 be doing it. 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Connor. 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, to close 16 for the Minority, just let me say, I think this 17 bill epitomizes what the people of this state 18 are fed up with. That's the secrecy, the 19 spending, the sausage-making that goes into the 20 budget, and this year we have a new feature, the 21 hostage-taking and even as we are about to free 22 the hostages of last night and the past week or 23 two, the loft tenants, it seems we're compelled 10132 1 to take new hostages, the correction officers. 2 Moreover, the Assembly passed a straightforward 3 bill dealing with them and their issue which is 4 now being sent over here and put into a new bill 5 by the Majority to create a new set of hostages, 6 the correction officers. 7 Now, they won't get their need 8 for retirement benefits addressed until the 9 Westchester and Nassau County Medical Centers 10 get their millions of dollars, and I'm not 11 making any judgment about those individual 12 needs, but gee whiz, funding medical centers 13 somehow is now germane to providing pension 14 benefits for correction officers? And I suppose 15 next year we'll see even more hostage-taking as 16 this process hopelessly breaks down. 17 I look forward shortly to freeing 18 some of the hostages, some of whom have been 19 here with us this past week or two, but I 20 shudder to think that legislation that 21 representative government in the state of New 22 York has turned into the kind of secrecy and 23 hostage-taking under the guise of legislation 10133 1 that we're seeing here today, that we've seen in 2 these last couple weeks. 3 It's time to end that and have 4 open representative government that's not so 5 partisan that we have to take hostages, because 6 if we keep taking hostages I shudder to think 7 we're going to start shooting hostages by the 8 next year's session and doing in the needs of 9 the people of the state of New York in 10 retribution for not having some other perceived 11 need satisfied. 12 So, Mr. President, I intend to 13 vote against this because I don't want to be 14 party to creating a new set of hostages in this 15 Capitol. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Hannon. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 19 just a couple of comments. 20 First of all, for the edification 21 of Senator Gold who probably has learned some of 22 the lessons that Senator Bruno has introduced 23 but not all of them, one of those lessons is 10134 1 that we don't always hear everything that is 2 said. I think it's that we don't hear 30 per 3 cent of what is said. If he had been listening 4 the other day to the extensive debate between 5 myself and Senator Leichter, he would have heard 6 this bill debated extensively, so it didn't come 7 out of anywhere. It is there and it has been 8 merged in order to achieve the aim of helping 9 people who need help. 10 Second, this bill does not give 11 money. This bill saves money, doesn't create 12 any new appropriation and it saves money in 13 order to deliver services to some needy people 14 in both counties. 15 I would say that instead of the 16 standard of double -- or instead of this hostage 17 being the standard, as Senator Connor would 18 suggest, we are faced with the introduction, 19 however, of a double standard. The Assembly 20 always thinks that they can help their constit 21 uents, but we can't help our constituents. I 22 would say that's a double standard that ought 23 not to be continued. We are all here to do the 10135 1 business of the people of the state of New York 2 and this bill is an attempt to do that. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the negatives; announce the result. 13 Senator Paterson, to explain his 14 vote. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 I'm voting in the negative, and we are most 17 anxious to pass legislation that will benefit 18 those members of the Corrections Department and 19 particularly those correction officers, partic 20 ularly those whose unions have fought for them 21 and are behind them, and we're not opposed to 22 anyone else benefiting or anyone else's 23 constituents, whoever they might be, because I 10136 1 thought correction officers were all of our 2 constituents. 3 What I'm saying is we need to 4 address these in separate bills and not be 5 taking legislation that was really categorized 6 to go in one particular area and tainting it in 7 the actual process. 8 The issue may have been discussed 9 before, but it was just the manner in which it 10 was constructed that was of concern to us and 11 that's why I'm voting no. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explain my 13 vote, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson will be recorded in the negative. 16 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain 17 her vote. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I will be 19 voting in the affirmative, but I am very 20 distressed that this is not a real bill. It's a 21 one-house bill because the needs of Westchester 22 County's medical center are so severe and need 23 tending to so immediately that it is really 10137 1 appalling to me that this all got so convoluted 2 and got thrown together with other issues. 3 I only hope and pray that we will 4 at some point in the near future have a clean 5 Westchester Medical County -- Medical Center 6 bill and that we will pass it expeditiously 7 because it is desperately needed. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Oppenheimer in the affirmative. 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 1802 are 13 Senators Connor, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery, 14 Onorato, Paterson, Seabrook, Smith and 15 Stachowski. Ayes 49, nays 9. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 20 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 21 1803. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read Calendar Number 1803. 10138 1 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1803, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Print 11271, an act to allow members of 5 the New York State Retirement System. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Leichter, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Because I have 11 a certain interest in this bill that I'd like to 12 explore. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leichter, I was not being facetious nor was I 15 meaning to be showing any lack of respect, but 16 you rose after Senator Waldon had asked for an 17 explanation. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Oh, I'm sorry. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So I was 20 just trying to maintain some order and decorum 21 in the chamber which is the responsibility of 22 the Chair, so if you have no objection I'll ask 23 for an explanation on behalf of Senator Waldon. 10139 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Not only that, 2 you do an excellent job. I didn't hear Senator 3 Waldon ask for an explanation. I have some 4 comments, but let's hear the explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Bruno, who is going to be providing the 7 explanation on Calendar 1803? 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 9 believe that Senator Lack was designated to do 10 this. I believe he is in the Law Library now 11 doing some research and he will be here very 12 shortly and if you will just give us a moment, I 13 think you will be amazed by what he has to 14 recite in relation to it. 15 Please get Senator Lack on the 16 phone. (Pause). 17 Mr. President, it's my 18 understanding that this may take a little more 19 research than we may be able to accomplish in a 20 short time frame, so if we may temporarily lay 21 this bill aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside temporarily. 10140 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 2 Senator Trunzo apparently had been studying this 3 without my knowledge for weeks and he is now 4 rising to this occasion, so I would ask that you 5 recognize him for a full explanation. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We won't 8 lay the bill aside temporarily. The Chair 9 recognizes Senator Trunzo for an explanation. 10 SENATOR TRUNZO: It's a very 11 simple explanation. Evidently has to do with 12 some woman who used to work for Ways and Means 13 in the Assembly who, on January 6th of 1969, for 14 reasons -- for whatever reasons, just failed to 15 elect to participate in what we all had as the 16 reopener of '88, and so that basically that's 17 what it is, it's to reopen it for one individual 18 to get into the 80-A system. I have no idea who 19 she is or what it's all about but that basically 20 is what the bill does. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Waldon. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10141 1 much, Mr. President. 2 Senator Trunzo, would you be kind 3 enough to edify me a bit? I did read this and 4 there's a portion of this bill which speaks to 5 service time being folded into, meaning military 6 service time being folded into the overall time 7 of the employee if he or she qualifies, and I 8 was wondering, is that your understanding of the 9 bill that someone who put four years, good 10 years, I think it's three years but not more 11 than three, and that that could be folded into 12 the time? 13 SENATOR TRUNZO: My understanding 14 is she works for the Assembly, had a lapse in 15 service and did not choose at the time. She 16 thought she was accepted into the 80-A and 17 apparently was not and it recently has been 18 discovered, and she was told by Ways and Means 19 back in those days that she didn't have to do 20 anything and there she was in 80-A, and then it 21 was found out she was not. 22 I mean it's a simple explanation, 23 you know, but done by the Assembly Ways and 10142 1 Means Committee. Even the fiscal note is done 2 by them. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I have one more 6 question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Trunzo yield to one more question? 9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 yields. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Trunzo, 13 I apologize if in any way I put you on the spot 14 with this explanation, but if it was more than 15 just one employee who had qualified under this 16 explanation, but it was another employee. Could 17 that person then qualify under this equation, 18 under this proposal? 19 SENATOR TRUNZO: Well, as I 20 understand this was a unique proposal in itself 21 and I'm sure if something else happened, someone 22 else, that another piece of legislation would 23 have been appropriate. 10143 1 SENATOR WALDON: All right. What 2 you're saying that would have to be a separate 3 act, could not be this act? 4 SENATOR TRUNZO: Can't open up 5 for you. Sorry. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 10 I'm sorry but this is garbage time and I guess 11 it's the end of the session and we're really 12 seeing the sort of bills that shouldn't be 13 before us, and I don't know who this particular 14 individual is. I'm at least glad to know that 15 we've identified her in some ways because I 16 asked Senator Trunzo before. 17 I've been here a number of years 18 and others have, you have, and we've had many 19 instances where we've been embarrassed by 20 finding out that we voted pension benefits for 21 people who really were not deserving. I mean to 22 put somebody into 80-A, because of his or her 23 negligence they failed to apply when they should 10144 1 have and so on, I mean either we're going to 2 have a pension system that's going to work in a 3 fair, unbiased, uniform manner, or we're going 4 to try to have all of these special benefit 5 bills that we pass. 6 Now, some years ago Senator Gold 7 took the lead on this, to try to set up a system 8 whereby we as legislators did not have to pass 9 on these and to turn this over to the 10 comptroller and Senator Trunzo was extremely 11 helpful in trying to do this. We did it in 12 part, we didn't do it fully, but I must say I 13 feel very uncomfortable in voting on these sort 14 of bills, particularly when you put somebody 15 into that sort of a pension system and one 16 hundred percent of the cost is now going to have 17 to be borne by the people of the state of New 18 York. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 22 President. Thank you very much. 23 For -- when it comes to this 10145 1 issue, I have been, I hope, a proud partner of 2 Senator Leichter, but at this point I'm going to 3 differ with him on this particular bill, and the 4 reason is that I would be less than candid with 5 my colleagues in this house if I didn't say that 6 there was a time back in the 1960s where I 7 worked as a counsel, I sat at my desk, and if it 8 wasn't for Joe O'Connor, may he rest in peace, I 9 wouldn't even realize what was going on. People 10 were running around and I was lucky, I was a 11 counsel, somebody was concerned about me. They 12 came, they explained the system and I signed 13 up. 14 My understanding of this 15 situation is that the person involved was -- who 16 is -- was not informed properly, was specific 17 ally told that she did not have to do something 18 which under the law she would have had to do and 19 the cost in this, I do not think is an 20 outrageous cost. It's within reason and I'm 21 going to support it. I think that Senator 22 Leichter is right that we should have a system. 23 I think Senator Trunzo is right, I supported his 10146 1 bill, but as Senator Trunzo and all of us have 2 found, even though we have done the right thing, 3 there have been people who have fallen through 4 the cracks because every bill we pass is not 5 perfect. I think this is one of those people 6 and I'm going to vote for it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 8 last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 negatives. Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 17 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 22 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 23 1794. 10147 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Secretary will read the Calendar 1794 which is 3 on Supplemental Calendar Number 3, page 1. 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1794, substituted earlier today, by member of 7 the Assembly McLaughlin, Assembly Print 4011-B, 8 an act to amend the Social Services law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 21 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 22 1777. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 10148 1 regular calendar, Calendar Number 70, in yellow, 2 the bronze tint, page 4, the Secretary will read 3 Calendar Number 1777. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 5 Senator Stafford moves to discharge from the 6 Committee on Finance Assembly Bill Number 11319 7 and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading 1777. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It's 10 substituted. Secretary will read the title. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1777, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 13 Assembly Print Number 11319, an act to amend the 14 Real Property Tax Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Bruno. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 18 message at the desk, Mr. President? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 21 the message. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 23 to accept the message of necessity at the desk 10149 1 on Calendar Number 1777. All those in favor 2 signify by saying aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 Opposed nay. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 The message is accepted. 7 Secretary will read the last 8 section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58 - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Leichter, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, to 18 explain my vote. 19 Mr. President, this is a very 20 comprehensive bill which is very fondly called 21 "the big ugly", has many provisions in it, some 22 tax decreases but one important feature of it is 23 that it finally frees the loft tenants, and I 10150 1 certainly want to congratulate them. They've 2 been held hostage far too long. It's been 3 really most unfortunate, even disgraceful, that 4 they've been treated in this way, thousands of 5 tenants in New York whose rights were played 6 with as our convoluted budget process and end of 7 the year process played out, so I'm going to 8 have to vote for it. As I dislike at least some 9 of the tax reduction provisions, particularly 10 the one that eliminates the mansion tax, I see 11 no reason, no justification for doing that. 12 That's going to cost 60, $70 million, and I just 13 want to warn all of you, we're going to be back 14 next year with a whopping deficit because of 15 these tax cuts that we both willy-nilly without 16 having the revenue for, and next year as you 17 worry about what you're going to do for your 18 local school districts and you worry about what 19 you're going to do for transportation and you 20 worry about how you're going to avoid tuition 21 increases in SUNY and CUNY and take care of 22 elderly people and so on, just think about all 23 of these tax cuts that you have voted for which 10151 1 have helped us create that enormous deficit. 2 We had one this year. We'll have 3 a bigger one next year, but thank God we freed 4 the loft hostages. 5 I vote in the affirmative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Leichter will be recorded in the affirmative. 8 Senator Gold, to explain his 9 vote. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, just as a 11 matter of order, Mr. President. I think that 12 you would -- should inform people that we do not 13 allow demonstrations or anything along those 14 lines so that when we finally hear the words 15 that this bill is passed, we don't hear the 16 people in the balcony saying, Free at last, free 17 at last. Thank God Almighty, we're free at 18 last. 19 I vote yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative. 22 Senator Marchi to explain his 23 vote. 10152 1 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. Chairman, I 2 was chairman of Finance many years ago when this 3 bill was put into place and I had a major role 4 at that time and I was very happy to have done 5 it. I'm happy that this result is being 6 achieved now and that we're doing what's about 7 to happen. It was just a question of time but 8 you've been patient, and I know that you've made 9 substantial investments in the improvement of 10 that property so it inures to the benefit of 11 that area of the city of New York and the state 12 of New York. 13 So we rejoice in your -- in your 14 realization and the hope that we would validate 15 this procedure today. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marchi will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 Announce the results. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 20 President. Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to 10153 1 explain my vote, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Explain 3 your vote. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I echo the 5 remarks of Senator Leichter, Senator Gold and 6 Senator Marchi, about the patience of people up 7 above me. I think what we ought to do is rename 8 our gallery up above, the Loft and have the 9 tenants move in and improve it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Montgomery to explain her vote. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 I rise too to say on behalf of my 15 constituents and all the residents of the city 16 of New York my apology and our apology for the 17 process, and I can certainly say for them that 18 it is at times as frustrating and disappointing 19 to me as it must have been to them to see how we 20 have used them for purposes of negotiating this 21 or that, and many times we don't know what the 22 this or that is, but we just know that we're in 23 the -- we're being used as pawns, but that is 10154 1 the process and fortunately somehow in some way 2 it comes together at times like this. 3 I would also say that for those 4 of you who think that it is -- it most 5 improbable that I would have lofts in my own 6 district, I do and the residents of those lofts 7 are extremely important constituents, not only 8 to my district but to New York State and, as we 9 have debated in this chamber in -- on prior 10 occasions, the arts play a very important role 11 for New York State citizens and citizens from 12 around the world, both in terms of our economy 13 as well as the aesthetics and the significance 14 that it gives New York City and New York State. 15 So it really is a wonderful opportunity to be 16 able to vote yes for the residents. 17 Although I may disagree with some 18 parts of the tax cut I certainly am proud that 19 we have finally resolved this issue on behalf of 20 the thousands of people, many of whom are 21 artists, who reside in lofts in the city of New 22 York and throughout the state. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10155 1 Montgomery will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 (Applause from the gallery.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Bruno. Senator Bruno. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 10 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 11 1797. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Have a 13 little order in the house, please. We'll return 14 to Supplemental Calendar Number 3, page 1, ask 15 the Secretary to read the title of Calendar 16 Number 1797. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1797, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 19 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 11254-A, an 20 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 10156 1 act shall take effect July 1. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 3 Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter, on the bill. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 7 President. 8 This is a bill that enhances tax 9 benefits given for real estate development and 10 renovations in lower Manhattan. It's really a 11 giveaway to the real estate industry, and I 12 appreciate saying that to some of you that's 13 like putting red meat before a tiger. That's 14 probably all you need to do to be strongly in 15 support of the bill, but the fact is that 16 there's no justification for that. 17 We voted a special lower 18 Manhattan district last year. I think I was the 19 only one who voted against it. I said that it 20 wasn't going to work, that really what this was 21 going to do with that lower Manhattan district 22 and the benefits we were providing was going to 23 do is to subsidize luxury housing, conversion of 10157 1 commercial buildings in lower Manhattan to 2 luxury housing paid for by the taxpayers. 3 That's precisely what has 4 happened and while we were told at that time 5 that there was going to be a commercial renewal, 6 that hasn't occurred. What this bill does now 7 is to enhance and to increase the benefits that 8 go for the commercial development because, as I 9 pointed out last year, there were absolutely no 10 credible studies that the benefits that we were 11 providing were going to do anything for 12 commercial renewal in lower Manhattan. 13 The fact is that New York City 14 has a surplus of commercial real estate, of 15 office space; much of it is midtown. Much of it 16 is in lower Manhattan, and these sort of bene 17 fits, we're not going to bring new businesses 18 into New York City and into Manhattan, so I hate 19 to say it. I think I was shown to be correct, 20 there's no justification to give even further 21 benefits now. It is a giveaway to the real 22 estate industry, and I would urge you to vote 23 against that. 10158 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 2 last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 4 act shall take effect July 1. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 9 the negatives. Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 11 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Bruno. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 16 can we at this time return to reports of 17 standing committees and I believe there's a 18 report from the Rules Committee at the desk. I 19 would ask it be read at this time. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 21 reports of standing committees, ask the 22 Secretary to read the Rules report. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 10159 1 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 2 following bill directly to third reading: 3 Senate Print 5097-C, by Senator 4 Spano, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 5 Security Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion to 7 accept the report of the Rules committee. All 8 those in favor signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The Rules report is accepted. 13 Senator Bruno. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 15 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 16 1805. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1805, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5097-C, an 21 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 10160 1 will read the last section. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator here 8 to respond? 9 SENATOR VELELLA: I believe 10 Senator Spano is assisting Senator Lack in his 11 research and, in his absence, I will try to 12 answer any questions as well as I can do. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Velella will yield, Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Senator, 16 as I read this bill, it makes certain 17 presumptions as to disability of firemen in the 18 city of New York or maybe firemen throughout the 19 state of New York, I don't know. Both firemen 20 and police, is that right? Is that correct? 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Senator. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: And one of the 23 presumptions is that on disability if that 10161 1 policeman or that fireman is found to be 2 suffering from melanoma or prostate cancer and 3 he was healthy at the time that he entered the 4 service, then it's deemed to be service-related 5 and upon retirement that police officer or that 6 fireman would get the pension benefits of - 7 that are -- that goes with disability yet, is 8 that correct? Is that correct? 9 SENATOR VELELLA: No, it is not. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you 11 explain that. 12 SENATOR VELELLA: You said deemed 13 to be. It was a presumption, and being the 14 scholarly attorney that you are, you know if 15 it's a presumption it is rebuttable. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Senator, 17 it is my understanding that you get melanoma 18 ordinarily from being in the sun. Is there 19 something about being a fireman who spends a 20 good deal of the time in the firehouse that 21 subjects him to melanoma more than other people, 22 people who are not serving as firemen? 23 SENATOR VELELLA: I would answer 10162 1 that by saying that, if we knew what caused 2 cancer, we would all be a lot better off. There 3 are a lot of theories and a lot of 4 possibilities. Certainly the firefighters and 5 the people who deal with emergency situations 6 inhale a great deal of carcinogenics, are 7 exposed to a lot of problems that the average 8 person are not exposed to, and I believe that 9 that justifies the presumption that their injury 10 or their malady may have been job-related. 11 However, if someone can show that there are 12 other factors such as heavy smoking, that also 13 might be a problem. A lot of other factors that 14 can be competitive to the presumption and rebut 15 that presumption, but the board would make the 16 determination. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right. Mr. 18 President, if Senator Velella continues to 19 yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Velella, will you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 23 think you said there is no scientific proof 10163 1 whatsoever, and really my question is to you in 2 the absence of scientific proof, how can we make 3 that presumption? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: I guess, 5 Senator, that's why we're saying it's a 6 presumption and not as you have stated deeming 7 it to be related. We'll let the board make the 8 medical analysis, take a look at the facts, 9 examine the facts and make a decision. All 10 those facts will be before the board, the 11 pension board that makes that decision, the 12 medical evidence, the testimony, the history of 13 the person, the predisposition, all of these 14 things are weighed very carefully, by these very 15 responsible members of this board. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 17 if Senator Velella will continue to yield. 18 Senator, I was going to suggest that you join 19 Senator Lack in doing the research, but - 20 SENATOR VELELLA: I'm trying to 21 pinch-hit for one Senator that's very knowledge 22 able on this and I may not be doing as good a 23 job as if he were here to do it himself. 10164 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm 2 particularly interested in, if you'd be good 3 enough to yield, what relationship there 4 possibly is to being a fire officer or being a 5 police officer and prostate cancer. Who has 6 ever shown that there is any connection? 7 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, if - 8 if we could only identify what it is that causes 9 that, we'd all be better off. Certainly you and 10 I would love to see the definite answers as to 11 what caused these problems. However, best we 12 can do is evaluate the medical knowledge that we 13 have available, make a decision based on the 14 facts, the medical testimony, and then we can 15 make a decision. That board can make that 16 decision. 17 What causes it? Nobody knows, 18 but there are some good medical presumptions 19 that have to be weighed and evaluated. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 21 Velella, I was under the presumption that we who 22 now spend a good deal of our time sitting in 23 chairs would be subject to that terrible - 10165 1 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- condition, 3 rather than a fire officer. Are you going to 4 put in a bill to deal with that presumption that 5 if we get prostate cancer some time, that it's 6 subject to our work? 7 SENATOR VELELLA: I may not think 8 that sitting -- yes, Senator, I may not think 9 sitting in a chair in an inactive mode as much 10 as you do would cause that type of cancer. 11 However, I do think, when you're out on these 12 emergency situations where you're exposed to not 13 just gases but contaminants, cleaning up 14 pollution problems, all of the things that our 15 emergency medical service people are exposed to, 16 I think there's a pretty good presumption 17 there. 18 Thank you, Senator. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, just 20 one more question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Velella yield to one more question? 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, one 10166 1 more question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Velella. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes, Senator. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Can you tell 6 me what it is that the nature of being a police 7 officer that would cause or maybe some causal 8 connection between being a police officer and 9 urinary problems which you also happen to make a 10 presumption? 11 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator, 12 in the words of one of our colleagues, Senator 13 Oppenheimer, where there's smoke there's fire 14 and maybe members of the campaign can remember 15 that. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: And, Senator, 19 when the fact is that our New York State Police 20 have the highest incidence of urinary tract 21 cancers because of the job that they do when 22 there's an emergency, they're right there 23 whether it be toxic spills, whether it be fires, 10167 1 whether it be buildings burning, plastics, 2 whatever those kinds of problems are, the 3 contaminants that they're exposed to, it is 4 reasonable to believe cause those cancers. 5 Thank you, Senator. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I want to 7 thank you. My colleague answering that question 8 says you get a lot of free coffee, and that may 9 be the cause. 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, they take 11 anything free, maybe. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Have a 13 little order in the house. 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 I -- I think this session has clearly run its 17 course and, as I said, I mean this is obviously 18 garbage time, and I'm sorry that I maybe take 19 this -- these sort of bills too seriously in 20 order to have the jocular and casual approach 21 that my friend here has, but we are voting on 22 bills where we're responsible on it. I mean we 23 are providing millions of dollars in benefits, 10168 1 disability benefits, that may cost the city of 2 New York a great deal of money. The very least 3 I think we have some obligation to show that 4 there's a causal relationship between the work 5 that these people do and the disability. 6 Let me say I think the 7 firefighters are wonderful. They're terrific 8 people. If we want to say that a firefighter 9 has loss of hair that is related to his job and 10 we're going to compensate him or if they get 11 wrinkles after 20, 25 years for worrying about 12 their jobs, we're going to compensate them, then 13 let's put it on the -- let's do it openly and 14 let's just say we're going to increase their 15 pensions because these are very valuable members 16 of the public service, but to do it in this 17 underhanded way, I don't think does any credit 18 to them or does any credit to us. 19 I don't think it's a serious 20 bill, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will- 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 10169 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 4 President. I won't be more than 25 seconds, 5 but, Senator Leichter, I appreciate your 6 position, seriously, but in the world that we 7 live in today where the press is always looking 8 for sound bites or whatever, you made one 9 comment, and I know at least one member of the 10 press who picked it up and I think it should be 11 dealt with, and you said that -- are you saying, 12 Senator Velella, that firefighters who spend 13 most of their day sitting around the firehouse 14 and in all fairness I understand how you used 15 it, I don't appreciate the way some pressmen use 16 it. Whether you are one way or another on this 17 bill, I mean fire fighting is one of the most 18 dangerous occupations. 19 We all owe these people a great 20 deal of gratitude, and it is very simplistic for 21 anybody in the press to write that these people 22 just sit around the firehouse all day, and I 23 know, Senator Leichter, you respect them, I 10170 1 respect them. I hope the press does also. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 10 the negative votes. Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 1805 are 13 Senators Leichter, Montgomery, Rath and Wright. 14 Ayes 54, nays 4. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. Bruno, can we 19 at this time return to the order of messages 20 from the Assembly. I believe there is an 21 Assembly hand-down. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 23 a message from the Assembly. Ask the Secretary 10171 1 to read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1806, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Print 11226, an act to amend the 5 Retirement and Social Security Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On motion 7 of Senator Bruno and with unanimous consent, the 8 rules are suspended and the bill is ordered to 9 third reading. 10 Ask the Secretary to read the 11 title. 12 THE SECRETARY: An act to amend 13 the Retirement and Social Security Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just hold a 18 minute. 19 THE SECRETARY: This act shall 20 take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Before we 22 read the last section, there is a home rule 23 message at the desk. I'll ask the Secretary to 10172 1 read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 The Chair recognizes Senator 11 Connor. 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. I rise to make a closing statement. 14 It seems a little bit like deja vu. About a 15 month ago when we did this, I'm glad we're doing 16 it again, Senator Bruno, because I forgot to say 17 some things this time and no, you can make up 18 for it, although I don't know how much interest 19 there is. I noticed not even the loft tenants 20 are here to hear this any more. 21 But this has indeed been a 22 curious session. We were presented in December 23 with a Newt Gingrich-like budget by the 10173 1 Governor, cuts to health care, cuts to 2 education, cuts to programs to help workers, 3 children and, by the way, the timing of it, as 4 it's July 12th, I'm really happy he submitted it 5 early. If he hadn't submitted it on December 6 15th, I can't imagine when we would have 7 finished work on it. Today is the 13th, that's 8 right. Today was the beginning of my family 9 vacation. My wife sends you our greetings from 10 the hurricane seashore. 11 But the -- we've now seen that 12 transformed in all seriousness, and we've had 13 our partisan differences, but I think on the 14 part of the Legislature there was a real 15 bipartisan effort to make that a realistic 16 moderate budget, to walk away from the extremist 17 type of Republicans in Washington and to provide 18 a budget that met the needs of the people of the 19 state of New York, and I congratulate all my 20 colleagues in both parties in both houses for 21 doing that. 22 In doing that, of course, this 23 house passed a budget, its own version, which 10174 1 repudiated the Governor by spending $800 million 2 more. The Assembly passed its version, both 3 passed it unanimously, passed it unanimously, 4 people in both parties voted for that, that 5 spent more than the Governor because we had real 6 needs. 7 Earlier in this session, my 8 friends in the Democratic Conference called for 9 a value-based budget that recognized values, the 10 future, education, job development, worker 11 retraining, providing for the elderly, 12 maintaining a first class health care system and 13 meeting our governmental responsibilities. In 14 every one of these categories, this budget and 15 the actions in this last week have reflected 16 that. 17 In the last category, reforming 18 our government, we have a long way to go. We've 19 taken many steps backwards in the secrecy and 20 lack of openness in this budget process. On the 21 other hand, with respect to ballot access we've 22 taken, in all fairness, a pretty decent step 23 forward in providing for democracy with a small 10175 1 "d". 2 In the other categories, we've 3 done a NYPHRM bill. We've done Medicaid 4 restorations which recognize that health care is 5 important to all New Yorkers. We've provided 6 more funds for education and higher education, 7 and we've certainly provided for our children's 8 future. 9 I want to thank all my colleagues 10 in the Democratic Conference. I want to thank 11 those members who held the hearings we held 12 earlier on the criminal justice system and the 13 criminal justice proposals that the Governor 14 made, all of which have been soundly rejected by 15 the Legislature. 16 I want to thank those who held 17 the higher education hearings. Senator Stavisky 18 who has been ill much of this session, and all 19 the rest of my colleagues here who filled in for 20 him in some of these -- most of these hearings 21 around the state. I think the budget reflects 22 the kind of need that these hearings came up 23 with. 10176 1 As we enter into a -- of course, 2 I want to once again thank Senator David 3 Paterson, my more than able deputy, whose humor, 4 wit and intellect is just superb, and I think 5 we've all enjoyed. He's ably assisted, of 6 course, by Senator Stachowski and as we now 7 complete the budget, I can now say thanks to 8 Senator Gold, our ranking on Finance, who has 9 been of great assistance to me both personally 10 as leader and, of course, the chair of our 11 Conference, Senator Mendez, and the rest of the 12 members of the Senate Democratic Conference. 13 What I for got to say last time 14 because I wanted to keep them working is I want 15 to thank my staff, my counsel, Michael Boxley, 16 John Ewashko, Secretary of Finance, Amy Solomon, 17 chief of staff, my secretary and all the rest of 18 my staff, all of whom function under these last 19 few days with no sleep, all right, and, of 20 course, Peter Slocum, my press secretary, and 21 policy adviser. 22 All the staff functioned on both 23 sides, I think, with very little sleep, had very 10177 1 little time certainly on our side to analyze 2 legislation, and did a great job. 3 As we enter into now the very 4 political silly season, I want to wish all of 5 you a -- of course, want to thank Senator Bruno 6 for once again these -- these absolute 7 courtesies, and I enjoyed working with him. The 8 -- I do want to thank all of my colleagues here 9 and wish you all a great summer. I wish all of 10 you great health for the rest of the year. I 11 wish all of you success in your outside 12 endeavors. And I wish some of you great luck in 13 November. 14 But -- so look at him, huh? But 15 unfortunately, we set some records this year, 16 the latest budget ever. That's something we 17 don't, as part of this system I'm certainly not 18 proud and I think we must do much, much better 19 in the future. We must heed the call of 20 Governor Pataki in his first State of the State 21 address and in his campaign that we have an open 22 budget process, that we open it up to all the 23 members of the Legislature and more importantly 10178 1 to public scrutiny so the public can be heard. 2 I'm disappointed that the 3 Governor in his "Sophomore slump" year not only 4 didn't accomplish those goals he set for himself 5 but, in fact, ended up taking part in a highly 6 secretive process which resulted in record 7 lateness, record disappointment on the part of 8 the public and all those who were concerned 9 about certainly our localities and certainly all 10 those others concerned about New York's fiscal 11 situation. 12 Mr. President, thank you very 13 much for your courtesies. I hope you all have a 14 great summer. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Bruno, to close. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Connor, 19 for your very gracious remarks. 20 I think many of us that have 21 experienced this year would -- could categorize 22 it in any number of ways. Certainly curious, as 23 the Senator does, would fit. I'd like to 10179 1 categorize what we have done this year as out 2 standing, productive and people will focus on 3 that this is a late budget, but it's much better 4 to focus on what is in the budget than when it 5 passes. 6 What is in this budget? It 7 continues the growth, continues the prosperity 8 for the people of this state that started last 9 year with the leadership of Governor George 10 Pataki, with we in the Legislature as partners, 11 and this state is turning around, and we are 12 headed in the right direction. All of us here 13 can be proud of what we've done. We don't have 14 to apologize for anything. 15 Is this a perfect system that we 16 are involved in? It certainly is not. Will we 17 all work continually to improve it? I hope so 18 and I'd pray so, because that's what our 19 business is all about. Continual re 20 adjustment, improvement, and we're doing that. 21 We are getting there. 22 We have a budget that cuts 23 spending second year in a row. First time in 51 10180 1 years spending less than the previous year in 2 the general fund. Cut taxes, second year in a 3 row, most massive tax cuts in the history of 4 this state, and the largest tax cuts throughout 5 the United States last year, continued this 6 year. Rescinding the property tax that got to 7 be, for better or worse, called "the Cuomo tax" 8 on properties primarily in New York City, that 9 is being rescinded in this budget and that will 10 be one of the most productive things that will 11 happen to the people of this state. That would 12 be the flagship of what has happened in tax cuts 13 throughout this country. 14 So we can be proud of what we've 15 done, not of the whole process because, again, 16 there are flaws, there are flaws in the budget 17 process. We'll work together trying to fix 18 that. We'll work together so that we don't 19 repeat some of our mistakes next year. 20 We don't do anything in this 21 chamber by ourselves. I know that. I can't 22 function without my colleagues here in the 23 Majority; I can't function without my colleagues 10181 1 in the Minority, so we in the Majority will do 2 our best to keep you in the Minority, but we 3 will do that in a good-natured way as we go 4 really and leave the chamber to another phase of 5 all of our lives that hopefully will be 6 productive for all of us as we relate to the 7 people that we represent, and this is a good 8 season. It's time for us to get out and talk to 9 the people that send us here to represent them 10 to do the serious work of government, and all of 11 us can be proud of what we've done, and I do 12 want to say thank you to many of the people who 13 are in this chamber, many that aren't here for 14 helping me function and helping us in the 15 process, and sitting in front of me Chairman of 16 Finance Ron Stafford who spends days, nights, 17 week ends in this process helping make it 18 happen, ably assisted by Abe Lackman that is 19 getting to be legendary around here and in this 20 state. I didn't say "infamous", I said 21 legendary, and all of his staff that assists him 22 so well, and when I realize the hours that 23 people put in, the days and going through week 10182 1 ends, believe me, the people of this state, we 2 are well served. So I say thank you. 3 My Deputy Majority Leader on my 4 right who sits here and functions and helps us 5 in every way that he does and can: Dean, I 6 thank you very, very much for that, and for all 7 of my colleagues here that chair committees and 8 just work so hard to make us as productive as we 9 have been this year in serving the people of the 10 state, and Owen Johnson, who is in the high 11 leadership position, in assisting us in more 12 ways than I can relate, and Tim Collins, Dave 13 Dudley, our executive counsels, who again just 14 make it work and they make it work efficiently 15 and effectively, and I could go on at great 16 length, and I don't want to embarrass them or 17 any of the others like my chief of staff Steve 18 Boggess who just has been with me and in my life 19 for more years than he wants to remember, but 20 it's about 20, and that's as long as I have been 21 in the Legislature, so I thank him for that. 22 Pat Stackrow, my executive assistant, that works 23 so hard to make everything run smoothly in the 10183 1 office and John McArdle, our director of 2 communications, who helps us all communicate as 3 well as we do with our publics, and Marcia 4 White, my press secretary, I thank her for 5 putting up with me, putting up with you and 6 putting up with the press. 7 Dean, who did I forget in 8 assisting me? If I forgot anyone, it is my 9 deputy's fault and he'll take full 10 responsibility for that. And Senator Randy 11 Kuhl, who has presided, as you all know, with 12 such great diligence and diplomacy, Randy, we 13 all thank you in this chamber for helping us 14 function so smoothly. 15 (Applause) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 17 will be no demonstrations in the chamber. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Please bring the 19 chamber back to order, Mr. President. Bill 20 Dougherty has been with us for so many years and 21 he has just helped us in so many ways. He is 22 leaving us this year and taking early retirement 23 and we're going to miss Bill. Where is Bill? 10184 1 We're going to miss Bill, and we appreciate your 2 long service here, and thank you very, very 3 much. 4 You all know all of the rest of 5 the things that we have done like restructuring 6 the hospital reimbursement rates, the bond 7 issue, managing managed care, managing Medicaid 8 through managed care. We've done a lot of good 9 things. As we go forward, we'll talk about 10 those good things and we'll meet the people out 11 there, and I know we're all anxious to do that 12 and I want to, as I close, thank Governor George 13 Pataki for his leadership, for his cooperation, 14 and his staff that surrounds him, all of them, 15 for all of the work that they have done to help 16 us in this process and in getting us to where we 17 are. 18 Some things are difficult, some 19 things are contentious, some things are 20 confrontational, but when it's all said and done 21 we debate and we do it sometimes good-naturedly, 22 sometimes we do it more strenuously, more 23 seriously, but we get there, and we recognize 10185 1 that we are colleagues. We are colleagues in 2 every way, and while we have differences we all 3 share the opportunities that are out there to 4 serve our constituency and we all want to do it 5 as well as we can, and I recognize that and I 6 think the people in this state recognize that. 7 So I thank you all in the chamber 8 and I join Senator Connor in just wishing you 9 happiness, health throughout the summer, stay 10 safe and with all of us that will leave here, 11 the mode of our lives will change as we will go 12 from this cameraderie to some others that are 13 out there who are watching us and eyeing us and 14 thinking that they foolishly could do a better 15 job than we and we will prove that between now 16 and then, and we will be here, most of us, back 17 in this chamber. And I want to thank you, 18 Dean. Bill Sears, Senator Sears is not here, he 19 is ill and Bill Sears is retiring at the 20 conclusion of this session. He will not rejoin 21 us, and I thank you for reminding me. Bill has 22 served the people of this state and his district 23 lots of years again in an outstanding way, so we 10186 1 are all indebted and we all consider him a 2 friend and hopefully he will visit when he gets 3 well and we'll have a chance to say some things 4 about Bill and his service again. 5 So have a safe summer. Have a 6 happy summer, and I'm going to ask that all 7 bills, Mr. President, be recommitted to Rules 8 and - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All bills 10 recommitted. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: -- there being no 12 further business to come before the Senate, I 13 would ask that we adjourn subject to the call of 14 the Majority Leader and that intervening days to 15 be legislative days. Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All bills 17 will be directly recommitted. 18 (Applause) 19 Without objection, Senate stands 20 adjourned subject to the call of the Majority 21 Leader, intervening days to be legislative 22 days. 23 (Whereupon at 5:30 p.m., the 10187 1 Senate adjourned. ) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23