Monday, February 10, 1997

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 February 10, 1997 11 3:04 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would you please rise and join 4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 The invocation today will be 8 given by Reverend William Bazemore. He is 9 Pastor of Emanuel Church of God in Christ in 10 Brooklyn. Reverend? 11 REVEREND WILLIAM BAZEMORE: 12 Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I come to 13 You today to ask You, let Your blessing smile on 14 everyone here. Let everyone know that You are 15 real. Let everybody know that You're the God 16 that made everything and I think You'll rule it 17 Your way. But, Father, make the men and women 18 understand You will rule it Your way whether we 19 like it or not, but help us to be ready, help us 20 to be -- let justice come in. 21 Father, we are here today asking 22 You to look on everyone here today, forget about 23 what party they are from, but we want justice. 24 Let every bill that they have in today be 25 justified by You, if they justify the bill, You 1 will vote upon it. Father, I'm asking You right 2 now to stand, let us be able to understand Your 3 will more and more. We look at the situation 4 that happens, but one thing I'm asking You in 5 the name of Jesus. Men and women don't 6 understand what has happened to this great 7 nation. Our great nation has fallen, but we 8 don't understand what this is, but I'm here to 9 tell You what You told me. When men and women 10 took the prayer out of the schools and the 11 churches, that was all right because we had so 12 many denominations that has said God be with 13 You, but there is one thing I'm asking You to 14 do. Let everyone in every coatroom everywhere, 15 have three minutes of silent prayer, just three 16 minutes nobody says nothing, and You will see 17 this world turn upside down. You will see men 18 and women understand because there is somebody 19 can call Your name. I don't know who it will 20 be, but if some way it started from the 21 children. If we don't change the situation we 22 have now, the world is going back all the time. 23 This is the greatest nation in the world, but we 24 know what we're built upon. It's built and 25 founded upon in God we trust, and we forgot 1 about doing it saying we don't need the prayer 2 in the schools. I'll go along with that, but 3 somebody has got to realize one thing. We need 4 to have silence, only three minutes before we 5 start anything. If you just have three minutes 6 of silence, God honor that, and the world would 7 be different. You wouldn't have so many people 8 commit suicide. Look at the hurts of our young 9 people. It's a sad thing I see where the young 10 people are committing suicide all over the 11 world, but what it is because we forgot about 12 the foundation that we're built upon. 13 I want everybody here to forget 14 about their party, forget about what party they 15 are, just say, We come here for justice. We 16 want justice in every mayor, every governor, the 17 governor and every mayor of every city in this 18 world, even in New York State. Come to justice 19 and if a bill is not for justice, don't let it 20 pass. Build for justice. Look at your young 21 people don't have nothing to do. Lord, look at 22 the young people don't have nothin' to do, but 23 the homeless people, they got no right to be the 24 homeless people in the city. You made a way for 25 all of us, and we can, all we got to do is trust 1 and obey You. Make a job for these young men. 2 Make a job for the homeless. Don't let them 3 walk around doin' nothing. Make a job, some 4 kind of job. I don't know what job You can 5 make. Make a job and then God will honor them. 6 My book says a man don't work, he should not eat 7 and I stand on that word of make a job but how 8 can you not feed a man when he can't find a 9 job. 10 I want this to be justice in all 11 this Senate and everyone in this courtroom, just 12 think about it. Think about what we got that's 13 happening, think about it and look at what is 14 happening, the suicide people, look at the young 15 people. The young people, I say the old people 16 may do it because they're sick, but now, Father, 17 I'm asking You to test the heart of everyone in 18 here and let them realize who You are. Let the 19 spirit flow that nobody need be sick as long as 20 the session go on. Let it be all one accord. 21 Let them realize who You are. Let them realize 22 that nothing in the world is too hard for You to 23 do and I'm trusting You that I can -- I know You 24 hear my cry. Can You hear my words, Lord don't 25 leave them, and let them understand that You are 1 real. Let them understand that You made 2 everything and You can rule it. This we ask in 3 the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy 4 Spirit. In Jesus' name. Amen. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Amen. Thank 6 you. 7 The reading of the Journal. 8 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 9 Friday, February 7th. The Senate met pursuant 10 to adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, 11 February 6th, was read and approved. On motion, 12 Senate adjourned. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Without 14 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 15 Presentation of petitions. 16 Messages from the Assembly. 17 Messages from the Governor. 18 Reports of standing committees. 19 Reports of select committees. 20 Communications and reports from 21 state officers. 22 Motions and resolutions. 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 25 there's a privileged resolution at the desk by 1 -- no? We'll do the privileged resolution 2 later. O.K. 3 At this time there's an immediate 4 meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332 of 5 the Capitol. 6 THE PRESIDENT: There's an 7 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in 8 Room 332. 9 Senator Skelos? Senator LaValle, 10 are you prepared to make your statement? 11 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. Madam 12 President, had I been in the chamber on 13 Wednesday, February the 5th, I would have voted 14 in the negative on Calendar Number 111, Senate 15 Bill Number 1664. 16 THE PRESIDENT: So noted. Thank 17 you, Senator. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 20 at this time, if we could take up the 21 non-controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 35, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print Number 303, 24 an act to amend the Education Law. 25 SENATOR STAVISKY: Lay aside. 1 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 38, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 70, an act to 5 amend the Penal Law, in relation to the offense 6 of assault in the second degree in certain 7 instances. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 40, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 397, an act 13 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 14 issuance of licenses to have and carry pistols. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 16 please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 44, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454, an act 21 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 22 license to carry or possess a pistol within the 23 state. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 25 please. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 48, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 502, an act 5 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 6 administrative provisions. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 68, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 324-A, an 12 act to amend the Public Health Law and the Penal 13 Law, in relation to establishing ketamine as a 14 controlled substance. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This 18 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 73, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 377, an act 2 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to 3 telephone blocking services. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 74, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 398, an act 16 to amend the Public Service Law, in relation to 17 restricting access to telephone messages. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 76, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 305, an 5 act to legalize, ratify and confirm the acts and 6 proceedings of the Board of Education of the 7 Bolton Central School District. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 9 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 10 will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 80, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 440, an act 21 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 22 relation to requiring motor vehicle repair shops 23 to be registered. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 25 will read the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 3 January. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 88, by Senator Present, Senate Print 526, an act 12 to amend the General Municipal Law. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 89, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 647, an act 18 to amend the General Municipal Law. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 90, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 683, an act 24 to amend the County Law, in relation to 25 exempting public safety agencies. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 99, by Senator Present, Senate Print 538, an act 13 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to lawful 14 possession of weapons by persons 11 years of 15 age. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 20 November. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 25 the results when tabulated. 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2 the negative on Calendar Number 99 are Senators 3 Kruger, Montgomery and Paterson. Ayes 49, nays 4 3. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Skelos, that completes 8 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 at this time, if we could return to motions and 11 resolutions, I believe there's a privileged 12 resolution at the desk by Senator Connor. I ask 13 that it be read in its entirety and that you 14 then recognize Senator Connor. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 16 return to the order of motions and resolutions 17 and the privileged resolution by Senator Connor 18 at the desk will be read in its entirety. 19 THE SECRETARY: By Senators 20 Connor, Montgomery and Gentile: Legislative 21 Resolution paying grateful tribute to the life 22 and accomplishments of the Honorable Eileen C. 23 Dugan, New York State Assemblywoman of the 52nd 24 Assembly District. 25 WHEREAS, the members of the 1 Senate of the state of New York are greatly 2 moved to pay reverent tribute to Eileen C. 3 Dugan, Assemblywoman of the 52nd District and 4 cherished friend and colleague; 5 Assemblywoman Eileen Dugan passed 6 away on November 8, 1996 at age 51, after a 7 courageous four-year battle with breast cancer, 8 less than three days after her reelection to a 9 ninth term by an overwhelming majority; 10 Eileen Dugan was a woman who took 11 the experience of life, the joys and the 12 sorrows, and mixing them with her own grace and 13 creativity, caused them to work together for 14 good in the lives of her family, friends, 15 colleagues and constituents. We who remain seek 16 fittingly to recognize the untimely completion 17 of her illustrious life; 18 Eileen Dugan was born on April 19 15, 1945 in Carroll Gardens, the same community 20 in which she lived and later so served as 21 Assemblywoman for 16 years. She attended local 22 schools and the Grace Business Institute. From 23 1963 through 1974, she worked for Joseph H. 24 Oliphant and Company; 25 Concern for her Carroll Gardens 1 community and the quality of life of its 2 residents drew Eileen Dugan into politics. An 3 early community activist, she was a founder of 4 the Carroll Gardens Association and fought to 5 clean up the Gowanus Canal; 6 Eileen Dugan quickly developed a 7 true appreciation for public service and a 8 passion for politics. A youthful reformer, she 9 helped establish the Bay Ridge Democrats and the 10 Independent Neighborhood Democrats, firmly 11 believing in the effectiveness of grass root 12 organizations; 13 Recognizing her intelligence, 14 commitment and determination, in 1974, Eileen 15 Dugan was named Special Assistant to the 16 Comptroller of the city of New York; 17 In 1980, Eileen Dugan was elected 18 to the Assembly representing the 52nd District 19 which includes the Bay Ridge, Cobble Hill, Park 20 Slope, Red Hook, Sunset Park, Brooklyn Heights 21 and Boerum Hill areas of Brooklyn, as well as 22 her own community of Carroll Gardens; 23 Eileen Dugan came to the Assembly 24 armed with determination of spirit, a quick wit, 25 boundless energy and great wisdom, accompanied 1 by extraordinary sensitivity and compassion; 2 While her relationship with her 3 community and the needs of her constituents were 4 forever her overriding concern, Eileen Dugan's 5 wide-ranging interests and immense talent 6 quickly earned her the admiration of her 7 Assembly colleagues and the respect of her 8 adversaries; 9 Eileen Dugan's Assembly career 10 was filled with achievements and accomplish 11 ments. Most recently she chaired the Assembly 12 Committee on Economic Development, Job Creation 13 and Industry and was notably successful in 14 establishing economic development zones in 15 deteriorating neighborhoods; 16 Eileen Dugan was the first woman 17 to be named to the crucial Assembly Ways and 18 Means Committee. She was a valued member of the 19 Committee since 1985; 20 Assemblywoman Dugan also served 21 as the Assembly's representative to the Public 22 Authorities Control Board and as a member of the 23 Rules, Governmental Employees and Labor 24 Committees; 25 The Brooklyn waterfront being a 1 significant part of her district, Eileen Dugan 2 was a strong advocate for the revitalization of 3 the state's waterfront areas through the 4 introduction of new businesses and the 5 establishment of open space and parkland areas. 6 As chair of the Assembly Subcommittee on Water 7 front Development, she was responsible for much 8 of our state's progress toward these ends; 9 Eileen Dugan was, in addition, 10 early in her Assembly career, the chair of the 11 Subcommittee on Displaced Homemakers. In this 12 capacity, she was instrumental in the passage of 13 the legislation providing job training and 14 educational opportunities for women, training 15 funds for divorced or battered women, and the 16 establishment of training centers for women 17 throughout the state; 18 Trusted adviser, steadfast 19 friend, tenacious fighter on behalf of her 20 district, Eileen Dugan was straightforward in 21 all her dealings. She truly merits the grateful 22 tribute of this assembled body. Each of us can 23 draw upon the book of memory and find therein 24 reasons for her own gratitude. 25 WHEREAS, the sincere condolences 1 of this assembled body are offered in great 2 respect to Eileen Dugan's treasured family, she 3 is survived by her sister, Patricia Curtin, her 4 two brothers Brian and Brendon, her ten nieces 5 and nephews and her three great-nieces and 6 great-nephews. 7 NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED 8 that this legislative body pause in its 9 deliberations to pay grateful tribute to the 10 life and accomplishments of Assemblywoman Eileen 11 C. Dugan, recognizing her record of public 12 service and dedicating ourselves anew to the 13 causes and people she served, and 14 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 15 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, be 16 transmitted to the family of the Honorable 17 Eileen C. Dugan, New York State Assemblywoman of 18 the 52nd Assembly District. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 20 recognizes Senator Connor, on the resolution. 21 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 I really don't know quite where 24 to begin. Many of us in this chamber, either as 25 members of the Senate, worked with Eileen in her 1 capacity in the Assembly and I know many members 2 of this body also served with her in the 3 Assembly. 4 I first met Eileen a long time 5 ago. We weren't much more than kids then and 6 she was this young fireball with long red hair 7 down to her waist. My hair only came to the 8 middle of my back then, and it was a different 9 time; it was a different era. We were involved 10 in changing things in a neighborhood, and I know 11 the resolution talks of Eileen being born in 12 Carroll Gardens, but the neighborhood didn't 13 have so elegant a soubriquet in those days. It 14 was what old-timers in Brooklyn called Red 15 Hook. The real estate folks, in the late '60s 16 and early '70s, changed it to Carroll Gardens 17 and it's since had the desired effect on the 18 value of real property. 19 Eileen's parents were immigrants 20 from Ireland, County Donegal. Her father worked 21 in the Transit Authority. She attended schools 22 in the neighborhood and made friends, made lots 23 of friends. For one thing, if you knew Eileen, 24 you knew she was a generous, engaging, concerned 25 friend. At her funeral services there were 1 literally thousands of people who came by and so 2 many of them felt, as someone said to me at that 3 time, they said, "Gee, you know, there's been a 4 couple thousand people and they all think they 5 were Eileen's best friend," and I said, "Well, 6 you know, there's a reason for that above and 7 beyond the art of politics. That's because she 8 treated that many people the way one would treat 9 a best friend." People didn't have a family 10 event, a birth, a death, a family crisis, people 11 who knew Eileen knew that she would be one of 12 the first people on the phone or to come by, Can 13 I help? What can I do? And she would do all 14 she could do. 15 Eileen and I were just very, very 16 good friends. She was the godmother to my 17 oldest son, and you all know, and the resolution 18 sets out a bit of what she meant as a public 19 force, as a member of the Legislature, but she 20 was, for me, one of the best friends I've ever 21 had. She'd always treated me that way. She was 22 like a member of my family, and she made me feel 23 like a member of her family, and I'm certainly 24 going to miss her, and I think a lot of people 25 around this Capitol are going to miss her, and 1 it's really kind of unique that someone who was 2 so committed to principle, so kind to other 3 people was also so forceful and determined and 4 any of you who ever, on any issue, crossed 5 Eileen would know that. She also was not a 6 shrinking violet, by any means. 7 I remember her first week here as 8 a member of the Assembly. I was elected to the 9 Senate two years before that in a special 10 election. Week after I was elected, I remember 11 leaving session here and racing back to New York 12 for a Democratic County Committee meeting where 13 Eileen was elected to the State Committee by one 14 vote. I went down that Thruway in fear -- I 15 knew it would be a close vote -- in fear of my 16 life if I didn't make it to that meeting to vote 17 and, of course, I got there as they were 18 starting to call the roll. I voted for Eileen 19 and in the end she won by one vote, and her 20 answer was, "You made it, good thing you made 21 it." 22 The -- but her first week up 23 here, if you all knew her predecessor, those of 24 you who knew her predecessor was a very, very 25 fine justice of the Supreme Court now, Mike 1 Pesci. He was somewhat a rebel in those days in 2 the Assembly, rebel to whomever the Speaker was, 3 and somewhat played the role of a member of the 4 Legislature as some members have done from time 5 to time, very much the outsider, not that 6 involved in the goings on in Albany -- very, 7 very fine community spokesperson and leader, but 8 what the leadership in the Assembly in those 9 days regarded as a real pain; and Eileen upon 10 arriving here was ushered into see Speaker - 11 then Speaker Fink, and he began to approach her 12 very much the way he would -- and she was very 13 very close to Mike Pesci too, but he approached 14 her very much the way he would Mike and she cut 15 him off three sentences in and said, "Listen, 16 Stanley, I'm not Mike Pesci in drag, you don't 17 have to treat me that way," and that was her 18 introduction to the leadership in the Assembly. 19 You know, I could probably sort 20 of go on and on. I could probably write a book 21 about Eileen, and maybe I will some day, but she 22 meant so very, very much to me and my family and 23 I think she also meant something to the state of 24 New York because of her advocacy on behalf of 25 what she believed was the right thing to do and 1 her dedicated efforts. And those of you who 2 knew, and I think we all knew these last four 3 years she went through the most heroic struggle 4 to battle the dreaded illness of breast cancer. 5 I remember well when she first called me 6 Christmas four years ago, ten days before 7 Christmas, and she always had a dinner and we'd 8 bring the kids and, you know, she was great with 9 kids. I mean when they were smaller, you know, 10 taking the kids to somebody's house for dinner 11 was like, well, you know, are they going to 12 throw the food and all that. Well, that was 13 fine with Eileen and she would take their side 14 and she called to say she had to cancel that 15 dinner because she'd just discovered something 16 and she had to start treatment immediately, and 17 I think we all saw that struggle the last four 18 years. It was truly heroic, because I don't 19 think she missed except for those stretches when 20 she was in hospital, she didn't miss very much 21 session. She would schedule pretty heavy 22 treatments for Thursday afternoon, and by Monday 23 morning, she'd be back in session, back in her 24 office, put in long, full days, did that, 25 frankly, right up -- at the Democratic 1 Convention this last August, Eileen was there. 2 She was the honorary chair of the Democratic - 3 of the New York delegation, and I saw her go to 4 the floor, you know, these conventions start 5 around 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon with a lot 6 of less than noteworthy speeches. There's no TV 7 cameras there. Most of us plan on arriving 6:30 8 or 7:00 in the evening after dinner when the 9 real action began. Eileen would go over there 10 every day and sit through every minute of it 11 because she was a delegate and the convention 12 was in session, and she was clearly fighting her 13 illness then. She was very tired. She then 14 went back and went through a primary campaign, 15 got, I don't know if it was 88 or 90 percent of 16 the vote in that, and then won the general 17 election overwhelmingly just a couple days 18 before her death, and wait -- wait, and this is 19 obviously not the first thing. 20 There are things throughout the 21 district that she loved and worked so hard for 22 and that loved her so much, people ongoing 23 paying tribute to her and, if you knew Eileen, 24 you would also know the one overriding thought 25 as she looks down on this, she would be saying 1 "Oh, shut up, Connor, and sit down." She 2 didn't like a fuss about herself. She demanded 3 respect and she earned it and she got it, but 4 she didn't like a big fuss. So, with that said, 5 I urge the adoption of this resolution and I 6 invite certainly every member of the Senate to 7 join in sponsoring it. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 10 Senator wishing to speak? Senator Montgomery, on 11 the resolution. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 13 you, Mr. President. 14 I am very pleased to be able to 15 join with the Democratic leader, Senator Connor, 16 in memorializing and honoring this woman who was 17 a very special person, certainly in Brooklyn, 18 and also in this Legislature. 19 When I think of Eileen, I always 20 am reminded sort of from whence I -- I come as a 21 political person. It was at the time when there 22 was someone by the name of Mike Pettit, who was 23 from Texas and a total political person and 24 along with Mike Pesci and along with Gary Dean 25 who was someone that I worked with very, very 1 early on, and Peter Vogel, who was a person 2 organizing in a very meaningful and determined 3 way an organization which has become known as 4 Lamda, one of the major forces in our part of 5 Brooklyn. It was also Marty Connor, and a 6 number of other people, and it was also Eileen 7 Dugan. 8 We all were working what we 9 considered to be because of our youth and 10 perhaps to some extent our political naivete at 11 that point in time. We thought that we would be 12 the generation of people to change the way 13 politics went in Brooklyn. We were committed to 14 a vision and a purpose and a cause that was 15 really related to our neighborhoods and the 16 people who lived there, and Eileen Dugan was a 17 person who was identified with her neighborhood, 18 so despite all of her political involvement and 19 the eventually being elected to office and 20 becoming a major force in her community, it was 21 always in her mind solely to represent the 22 people that were -- who were her neighbors and 23 her friends and her family, not just 24 constituents. 25 When I first decided to run for 1 the Senate, it was Eileen Dugan who was one of 2 my friends from -- from my prior years as an 3 activist in the community, I in my community and 4 she in hers, but working together for the same 5 purpose. She was the first person, the first 6 elected official, to endorse my candidacy and in 7 fact encourage and support me. 8 It is really a very major loss to 9 our institution because Eileen was a person who 10 represented the aspirations and the commitment 11 and all of the principles that those of us who 12 are women in the Legislature would aspire to, 13 and that is that we want to be -- we want to be 14 feminists. We want to be committed to the 15 principles of freedom and opportunity for women 16 to achieve their highest potential and to 17 realize their own goals for themselves and by 18 themselves. 19 So we indeed will certainly miss 20 Eileen Dugan because she was a beacon unto those 21 of us women in the Legislature as well as to 22 women in her own district, and I certainly will 23 miss seeing her and being, in fact, able to 24 learn from her, having such skill and having 25 such strength as an elected official. 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 3 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 4 resolution? 5 Senator Skelos, Senator Connor 6 had indicated that the resolution would be open 7 to other members. Shall we follow the normal 8 procedure and put everybody on the resolution 9 with the exception of those who don't want to be 10 on? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'll 14 direct the Secretary to do that. Then at this 15 time, the question is on the resolution, and I 16 would ask all the members who are going to be 17 voting in favor to rise in a moment of silence 18 to indicate their affirmation of the adoption of 19 the resolution. 20 (A moment of silence was 21 observed. ) 22 The resolution is adopted. 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1 Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: If at this time 3 we could take up the controversial calendar and 4 start off with Senator Levy's bill, Calendar 5 Number 38. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will call the controversial calendar commencing 8 with Calendar Number 38, by Senator Levy, Senate 9 Print 70. Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 38, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 70, an act to 12 amend the Penal Law, in relation to the offense 13 of assault in the second degree in certain 14 instances. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: 16 Explanation. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Levy, an explanation of Calendar Number 70 19 (should be 38) has been requested by the acting 20 Minority Leader, Senator Montgomery. 21 SENATOR LEVY: Yes, Senator 22 Montgomery. We've taken up this bill for a 23 number of years, and all it really does is to 24 raise the potential penalty for assaulting a 25 person employed by a school district or BOCES, 1 and who is in a supervisory or instruction 2 position, to the same as the laws in our state 3 that relate to an assault on a police officer or 4 on a fire -- some -- a police officer working 5 for a police department or a fire person working 6 for a fire department. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 10 President. If the -- if the sponsor of the bill 11 would yield for a question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Levy, do you yield? 14 SENATOR LEVY: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 yields. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 18 Levy, I was just trying to -- I'm trying to 19 figure out what the degree of assault is and if 20 there's any relationship to the degree of 21 assault and the -- the penalty itself. 22 SENATOR LEVY: Senator, what this 23 bill does is to make it a "D" felony, the same 24 punishment upon conviction as for assaulting a 25 police officer, a fireman or firewoman. 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And is there 2 any level of proof -- Mr. President. 3 SENATOR LEVY: Beyond a 4 reasonable doubt. 5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 7 Senator wishing to speak on the bill. Hearing 8 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 11 November. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 16 the results when tabulated. 17 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain 18 his vote. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I just want 20 to explain my vote. 21 I voted in the negative and it's 22 not because I don't like teachers or supervisory 23 personnel or administrators, but I just think 24 creating special categories of individuals who 25 happen to be the victim of a crime to increase 1 penalties, if they happen to be the victim, 2 makes little sense to me. 3 It seems to me that the chances 4 of a young child who assaults a teacher being 5 charged with a felony will never happen, number 6 one. It may make us feel good to have bills 7 like this, but realistically it will never 8 happen. I don't know of any young person who 9 has gone to jail for even the year that the mis 10 demeanor laws now currently allow for assault on 11 teachers. 12 So I don't think it's a good 13 idea. I think it's very, very bad precedent. 14 If we -- I could see firefighters and police 15 officers. They're the first line of defense in 16 trying to protect the public, but to add 17 teachers, do you then add clergy, do you then 18 add legislators, do you add senior citizens? 19 Where do you end? 20 There should be laws that are 21 across the board and, for that reason, I'm 22 voting no, not because of any discourtesy or 23 dislike of the victims that happen to be the 24 ones who are to be protected by this bill. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 1 the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 38, Senator 4 DeFrancisco, Montgomery and Sampson. Ayes 54, 5 nays 3. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 if we could return to reports of standing 11 committees, I believe there's a report of the 12 Finance Committee at the desk. I would ask that 13 it be read. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We will 15 return to the order of reports of standing 16 committees. Secretary will read the report of 17 the Finance Committee. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 19 from the Committee on Finance, offers up the 20 following nominations: 21 Director of the state of New York 22 Mortgage Agency, Joseph Strasburg, Esq. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 24 recognizes Senator Stafford. 25 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 1 before I yield to the Senator from Richmond, I 2 would just point out that Mr. Strasburg came 3 before the Committee. He answered questions, I 4 might add one of the major questions was 5 verbatim what I had asked him. I think that 6 there were good answers. 7 I would point out, as I know 8 Senator Marchi will, that Mr. Strasburg 9 professionally has evidenced his ability, 10 character and decency, and I compliment the 11 Governor on this appointment and I yield to 12 Senator Marchi. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 14 recognizes Senator Marchi. On the nomination. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, 16 Senator and Mr. President. 17 We're very proud in my community 18 of the nominee. He served originally as an 19 assistant to Tom Cuite. None of you have been 20 here long enough to remember him, but he was a 21 colleague of mine, way back. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Who is it? 23 SENATOR MARCHI: Tom Cuite. 24 SENATOR STAFFORD: Oh, sure. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: And he was 1 Speaker -- Speaker of the City Council, and that 2 position materialized as chief of staff and 3 legislative counsel to the Speaker of the city 4 of New York, Speaker Vallone. Every contact 5 with him and his entire background, there's one 6 unanimous echo that you get when you -- when his 7 name comes up, and that's the quality that -- of 8 professional expertise that he has, his honesty, 9 his integrity, in other words all of those 10 qualities which we -- we feel should be well 11 represented in this agency. 12 So he has a fine academic 13 background. Combine that with experience that 14 gives him hands-on experience. Altogether, it 15 adds up to a very superlative nomination and 16 certainly he has the -- he had the unanimous 17 consent of the standing committee that -- that 18 -- where he was first heard and the unanimous 19 verdict followed, and now at the Finance 20 Committee a reconfirmation of that same measure 21 of confidence. 22 So I certainly urge the unanimous 23 consideration of this nomination. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 25 Senator wishing to speak on the nomination? 1 Hearing none, the question is -- Senator Gold. 2 Senator Gold passes or speaks on the nomination? 3 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold, on the nomination. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 8 much. 9 Mr. President, I'm sorry but I 10 was called out of the room for a few moments, 11 but it's my understanding that Senator Stafford 12 made reference to the fact that Mr. Strasburg 13 was asked certain questions by me at the 14 committee meeting and, first of all, just for 15 the record, I did request, on behalf of this 16 Conference, that Mr. Strasburg appear even 17 though the job is a non-paying job. I 18 appreciate the fact that he did appear and that 19 Senator Stafford honored the request. 20 I asked Mr. Strasburg some 21 questions at the meeting because there were some 22 matters which just should be answered for the 23 record, but I want the record also very clear as 24 I indicated in Finance, that I am aware of the 25 work that Mr. Strasburg did while he served the 1 New York City Council. 2 I think that, as far as I know, 3 there has never been a question as to his 4 integrity or his intellect, and the questions 5 that were raised were questions which just 6 should be asked out on the public record, but I 7 believe as I said in the committee that 8 certainly he does the Governor a greater favor 9 than the Governor does him in asking him to take 10 this job. I believe that he will do it with 11 integrity, as he's done other -- each and every 12 other job he's had to do in government. 13 I think the fact that he worked 14 for an organization whose views I don't always 15 agree with are irrelevant to the issue of 16 whether or not he is competent and capable and 17 -- and someone who should be able to take this 18 job and who is competent in terms of the 19 Governor making the appointment and, with that 20 in mind, I intend to vote in the affirmative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Smith, you wish to speak on the nomination? 23 Senator Smith, on the nomination. 24 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 25 President. 1 I, too, would like to second the 2 nomination of Joseph Strasburg. I would like to 3 say for the record that it is undeniable that he 4 has all of the qualifications to do an excep 5 tional job, and this is one of the best 6 appointments that the Governor has made. 7 I also state for the record that 8 he is a friend, and I mean that literally, and 9 he takes friendship very seriously as well as 10 any job that he has undertaken, and I know that 11 he will be a fine example of a great appointment 12 by the Governor, and I thank the Governor for 13 doing so. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 15 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 16 nomination? Hearing none, the question is on 17 the nomination of Joseph Strasburg, Esq., of 18 Staten Island to become the director of the 19 state of New York Mortgage Agency. All those in 20 favor of the nomination signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 24 The nominee, Joseph Strasburg is 25 confirmed as the director of the state of New 1 York Mortgage Agency. 2 Mr. Strasburg, congratulations 3 and good luck. 4 (Applause. ) 5 The Secretary will continue to 6 read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Member of the 8 board of directors of the New York Convention 9 Center Operating Corporation, Stephen J. 10 Morello. 11 SENATOR STAFFORD: Move 12 confirmation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 14 is on the nomination of Stephen Morello to 15 become a member of the board of directors of the 16 New York Convention Center Operating 17 Corporation. All those in favor signify by 18 saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The nominee is confirmed. 23 Secretary will continue to read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Member of the 25 Advisory Council on Alcoholism and Substance 1 Abuse Services, Paul Lewis Shechtman. 2 SENATOR STAFFORD: Move 3 confirmation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 5 of is on the nomination of Paul Lewis Shechtman, 6 of New York City, to become a member of the 7 Advisory Council on Alcoholism and Substance 8 Abuse Services. All those in favor of the 9 nomination signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The nominee is confirmed. 14 Secretary will continue to read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Members of the 16 Niagara Frontier State Park Recreation and 17 Historic Preservation Commission, David S. 18 Broderick and John Silsby. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Move 20 confirmation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 22 is on the confirmation of David Broderick and 23 John Silsby to become members of the Niagara 24 Frontier State Park Recreation and Historic 25 Preservation Commission. All those in favor 1 signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response. ) 5 The nominees are confirmed. 6 Secretary will continue to read the Finance 7 Committee report. 8 THE SECRETARY: Also Senator 9 Stafford, from the Committee on Finance, offers 10 up the following bill: 11 1373, by Senator Cook, an act to 12 amend the Executive Law, in relation to the task 13 force on school community. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 15 objection, the bill is ordered directly to third 16 reading. 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 if we could continue with the controversial 20 calendar, regular order. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will call the controversial calendar beginning 23 with Number 35, by Senator LaValle. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 35, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 303, an act 1 to amend the Education Law, in relation to the 2 Board of Regents of the University of the state 3 of New York. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 5 I seek an explanation from the sponsor. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 could we lay that aside for the day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside for the day. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter, why did you rise? 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: While I was in 15 the Senate Finance Committee meeting, Calendar 16 74 passed on the non-contested calendar. Is 17 that bill still in the house? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, the 19 bill is gone, Senator. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 I believe last year that issue was raised, and I 22 think a procedure was set up that -- on the 23 non-controversial calendar that bills would be 24 held while committee meetings were proceeding. 25 If you don't want to do it that way, we can just 1 lay everything aside, but I -- I do believe that 2 that request was made, and I believe it was 3 acceded to because committees more and more are 4 being called off the floor. 5 I was in the Finance Committee, 6 and why can't we hold these bills that pass on 7 non-controversial, just hold them at the desk so 8 if a member has a question, as I had about this 9 bill, we would then have an opportunity to raise 10 it? 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 12 believe there was no formal agreement like that, 13 but that certainly the member would be able to 14 come back in, make a statement on the record, 15 vote accordingly or, if we were notified in 16 advance of the meeting, that Senator Leichter 17 will be at a Finance Committee meeting, could 18 you hold up the bill that we would try to 19 accommodate that way, but once a bill is voted 20 on and it's out of the house, it's been moved 21 out. We can't - 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: We can't 24 anticipate every bill that a member is going to 25 want to debate or not debate if they're not in 1 the chamber. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 3 you're right but, as you know, with all the rush 4 of business, it sometimes happens that you don't 5 tell counsel, Please hold this bill or lay it 6 aside, and I'm just suggesting it's a very easy 7 thing, pass the bill but just hold it at the 8 desk, and my recollection is pretty clear that 9 we agreed last year as a matter of accommodation 10 and the easy working of this chamber that we 11 would do that rather than just lay every bill 12 aside while committees are meeting, so my 13 request would be that in the future that we 14 would do that. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: We will take 16 that under consideration, and I'm sure it's 17 something that at the leadership level that 18 could be discussed. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I hope 20 you won't have too many sleepless nights 21 pondering that, Senator Skelos. In the 22 meantime, would you be so good, with unanimous 23 consent, may I be in the negative on Calendar 24 74. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 1 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 2 Leichter will be recorded in the negative on 3 Calendar Number 74. 4 Secretary will continue to read 5 the controversial calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 40, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 397, an act 8 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to licenses 9 to have and carry pistols. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Same debate as 11 last year? We can do that. Should I explain 12 it? This is a bill, as Senator Gold just 13 indicated - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Volker, I didn't hear anybody from this end of 16 the chamber asking for an explanation. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: O.K. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: 19 Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I guess 21 Senator Stachowski recognized that you were on 22 your feet and wanted to listen to you this 23 afternoon, so Senator Volker, for an 24 explanation. 25 SENATOR VOLKER: I knew it was 1 coming. 2 This bill, which has passed this 3 house on a number of occasions before, is called 4 the "proper cause bill" which provides that an 5 applicant for a pistol permit is presumed to be 6 of clean moral, criminal and mental character 7 and as opposed to the situation today where a 8 person in effect must demonstrate that there's a 9 proper cause for a pistol license to be -- to be 10 presented. 11 This, by the way, does not change 12 the fingerprinting and the other record checks, 13 but would provide a presumption that the person 14 has the right to -- to obtain a pistol license 15 rather than the present system which sets up 16 that the person must provide, in effect, the 17 proper cause to get a license. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 19 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 20 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 24 November. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 4 the results when tabulated. 5 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 6 the negative on Calendar Number 40 are Senators 7 Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, Gentile, 8 Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, 9 Markowitz, Nanula, Onorato, Sampson, Santiago, 10 Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and Waldon, also 11 Senator Oppenheimer. Ayes 36, nays 21. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Secretary will continue to read 15 the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 44, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454, an act 18 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to a license 19 to carry or possess a pistol within the state. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Holland, an explanation has been asked for by 24 Senator Paterson. 25 SENATOR HOLLAND: This is a bill 1 about fairness that I have carried in this house 2 for seven years, and before me Senator Levy 3 carried, and I don't know how many years he 4 carried it. 5 It is a question of fairness in 6 that if you purchase a, or are issued rather a 7 pistol license in the city of New York you can 8 carry it in any of the counties of the state of 9 New York, but if you are issued a pistol license 10 in any of the 57 counties outside of the city of 11 New York, you cannot carry it into the city of 12 New York unless it's in a locked box. That's 13 the full question. 14 The question then that will be 15 raised is, how about the weapons getting away or 16 the people are untrustworthy? These are people 17 who are issued pistol licenses by judges in the 18 state of New York, and to -- and I used to be a 19 county clerk, as I've said here for seven years, 20 and to be issued a pistol license in the county 21 of Rockland or any other county, you have to 22 have your fingerprints taken. It takes at least 23 three months; it could take 13 months. You have 24 to have your fingerprints go before the F.B.I., 25 the BCI, you have to have a mental health 1 review. You have to have a letter from your 2 spouse that says she doesn't mind or he doesn't 3 mind if there is a weapon in the house. 4 The people who are issued pistol 5 licenses are very honorable, reputable and 6 responsible. They do not cause problems. I do 7 not see why this is a problem to some of the 8 people in the city of New York. 9 Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any Senator wishing it speak the bill? Hearing 12 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 20 the results when tabulated. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Gold, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 25 was informed by Senator Stachowski that if I was 1 going to engage in any physical activity at all, 2 I should warm up before I did it, and I want to 3 thank Senator Holland and Senator Volker and 4 others for giving us the warm-up these few weeks 5 in the legislative session as they do every year 6 so we can go through this process before we get 7 to serious legislation that may pass both 8 houses. 9 I vote in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 12 For those who are voting in the 13 negative, please raise their hand one more time 14 so that the Secretary can record your negative 15 votes. 16 Announce the results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 44, Senators 19 Abate, Breslin, Connor, Gentile, Gold, Goodman, 20 Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, 21 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson, 22 Santiago, Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and Waldon. 23 Ayes 37, nays 20. Also Senator Oppenheimer. 24 Also Senator Dollinger. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35, nays 2 22. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Secretary will continue to read 6 the controversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 48, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 502, an act 9 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 10 administrative provisions relating to the 11 issuance of firearm licenses. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Johnson, an explanation of Calendar Number 48 15 has been requested by Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 17 Section 400 of the Penal Law sets forth the 18 standards for issuing a pistol licenses. In 19 some jurisdictions additional standards, 20 conditions, and so forth, are applied by the 21 licensing authorities without legal authority to 22 do so. 23 There are two types of pistol 24 permits, pistol licenses, which can be issued, 25 either premises or carry. There's no third type 1 there. We have a varied number of types created 2 by local issuing officers and such as hunting, 3 target shooting or other category where they 4 feel it's appropriate maybe just back and forth 5 on your job but no place else, and if it's a 6 carry license, according to the statute, it's 7 carry premises to premises. 8 This simply says no other 9 conditions shall be placed on the licenses 10 beyond those set forth in the section of the law 11 to which we refer. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Abate. 15 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. Would 16 Senator Johnson yield to a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Johnson, do you yield? 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 yields. 23 SENATOR ABATE: It's my 24 understanding of the bill that, if this became 25 law, that the number of carry permits in New 1 York City would dramatically increase. Is that 2 correct? 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: I don't know. 4 SENATOR ABATE: Well, right now 5 they - 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: They don't have 7 to issue licenses if there's any reason not to, 8 if the person is a criminal or mental case, et 9 cetera, et cetera. They don't have to issue 10 them, but once they do, they couldn't change 11 it. They couldn't restrict it in any way other 12 than simply reject it. 13 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, would 14 you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Sure. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 continues to yield. 18 SENATOR ABATE: See, it's my 19 understanding in New York City there are 20 individuals that have limited carry, who have 21 business licenses and these are individuals 22 because of their need, only require the 23 possession of a licensed weapon for a limited 24 period of time, when they're minding their 25 store, for instance, or when they're carrying 1 their payroll to and from the bank, and what 2 this law would do -- and please correct me if 3 I'm misunderstanding the law -- it would 4 basically say to these individuals even though 5 it's not your need, you'll be able to carry this 6 weapon anywhere you want to go, even though you 7 only need it for business purposes. 8 So wouldn't that, in effect, 9 proliferate the number of guns on the street in 10 New York City? 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator, if 12 you're telling me that $1500 is important, but 13 your life is worthless, then I guess you're 14 right, but I think if someone feels the need to 15 carry it, I think they shouldn't have to prove 16 to the authorities. They should be able to get 17 a license, providing there's no reason in their 18 background that they shouldn't possess one. 19 SENATOR ABATE: Can you conceive, 20 Senator, that certain localities have special 21 needs because of dense population, high crime 22 rates, that certain localities should be able to 23 decide for themselves how to put in place more 24 restrictive licensing procedures? 25 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, if you 1 think that -- that should be done, Senator, then 2 certainly you're free to introduce a bill like 3 that, but that is not dealt with in this bill. 4 This says the state law provides two types of 5 licenses, carry or premises, and if they ask for 6 one or the other with no reason to reject them, 7 it should be issued. 8 SENATOR ABATE: On the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Abate, on the bill. 11 SENATOR ABATE: Yeah, I will be 12 opposing this legislation because what, in 13 effect, it does is create chaos in New York 14 City. There's a local licensing procedure that, 15 within the discretion of the police commission 16 er, can authorize the licensing of the guns to 17 fit the needs of the applicant, and what this, 18 in effect, would do is create more guns on the 19 street where there's not a necessity. 20 Many people apply for guns for 21 limited purposes, and I do not think we should 22 take away the option and the ability of New York 23 City to be more restrictive, by saying they can 24 only have two types, carry or premises. That 25 means they would eliminate target licenses, they 1 would eliminate target practice licenses. They 2 would eliminate business licenses, as well as 3 limited carry licenses, and I think New York 4 City should retain that authority and ability to 5 safeguard the citizens of that region and, in so 6 doing, if they believe they need additional 7 restrictive licenses, they should have the 8 authority as they do now. 9 So, because of these reasons, I 10 will continue to oppose this bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 12 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Senator 13 Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 If Senator Johnson, who I'm glad 17 to see is recovered, would yield for a question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Johnson, would you yield? 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 21 President. Yes, I will. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 yields. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 25 Johnson, even in view of what you're trying to 1 accomplish, I wonder if this legislation 2 actually has a two-edged sword. If there isn't 3 the rebuttable presumption that is created where 4 there would be discretion in the enforcement of 5 the legislation that you propose, isn't it 6 likely that a judge, knowing that they could not 7 put any restrictions on the licensing procedure, 8 would just not allow the license at all for the 9 judge's own protection and really for society's 10 own protection, so that in trying to make it 11 more possible for individuals to gain a 12 license, and I would wish that they had not, but 13 just looking at your legislation, isn't it 14 possible that judges might be more restrictive 15 of granting the license since they can't really 16 grant any encumbrances along with it? 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's a 18 possibility, I suppose, Senator, but I can tell 19 you this, that concern about criminals asking 20 for a license is not well founded. They don't 21 usually apply for licenses. According to some 22 information I received, there are possibly 20 23 states already which have right to carry which 24 really goes even beyond this, saying anyone who 25 wants to carry can carry it if you don't have a 1 reason to turn them down, and they said of the 2 states which did not have right to carry laws, 3 concealed gun provisions, had adopted them in 4 1992, approximately 1600 murders, over 4,000 5 rapes and 60,000 aggravated assaults would have 6 been avoided yearly and the felony prisoners in 7 state jails now said that they would not attack 8 a potential victim if they thought there was a 9 possibility that victim might be armed, so 10 generally speaking, Senator, properly issued 11 carry licenses to responsible citizens tends to 12 reduce crime, not increase crime. 13 So I think you're overly 14 concerned about that. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. Thank Senator Johnson for his 19 answer. Mr. President, on the bill. 20 There is just my concern that 21 there is more -- it is not just a black and 22 white issue between responsible citizens and 23 criminals who would be involved. I think there 24 might be some restrictions that would be placed 25 on those who would like to have a firearm. A 1 loaded weapon is a very dangerous object. Many 2 of the -- there are accidents that occur with 3 loaded weapons. We read about them every day, 4 not because there is anything wrong with the 5 character necessarily of the person that's 6 applying for the license but because there's - 7 there's something wrong with the actual use, and 8 that's where the restriction we thought might be 9 helpful. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 12 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 13 section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 20 the results when tabulated. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 48, Senators 23 Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, Gentile, 24 Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, 25 Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, 1 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, 2 Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 35, 3 nays 22. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Secretary will continue to read 7 the controversial calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 88, by Senator Present, Senate Print Number 526, 10 an act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 11 relation to economic development zones. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 89, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 647, an act 24 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 25 to indexing the interest rate on judgments. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Holland, an explanation of Calendar Number 89 4 has been requested by the acting Minority 5 Leader, Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, Mr. 7 President. This bill changes the rate of 8 interest paid by municipalities upon judgment 9 against that municipality in their discretion 10 not to exceed nine percent of the prime rate but 11 with the cap of nine percent to prevent the 12 interest rate becoming excessive to the 13 municipalities. It's really designed to save 14 money for the taxpayers. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 16 if Senator Johnson would yield for a question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 18 he retired, Senator. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Well - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 21 like Senator Holland to respond to a question? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, I would. 23 Oh, Senator Johnson, I'm still trying to get 24 over his last answer about how to cut down on 25 crime, but if Senator Holland would yield for a 1 question. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: He's 4 still standing. He'd be happy to. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 6 Senator Holland, my only concern is that, while 7 you have a cutoff for the high point of the 8 interest rate, but we don't really have a cutoff 9 for the low point, and why is that not in the 10 legislation? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Well, it - 12 where we have a cutoff, Senator, in that it is 13 based on the prime rate. The prime rate 14 recently hasn't gone in -- in the not too 15 distant past below six percent, so it would be 16 limited by the prime rate. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Just one last 20 question, Senator Holland. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Holland, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 continues to yield. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 2 my question to Senator Holland is, a creditor 3 that is lending money at above the prime rate, 4 do you think this legislation would actually put 5 the creditor in an advantageous position and 6 actually do harm based on the fact that the - 7 that the creditor itself is going to be able to 8 lend at a higher rate under -- under the 9 legislation? 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Tell me once 11 more, Senator. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Yeah, what I 13 was actually referring to, Senator, is that if 14 the municipality is -- is paying a creditor, 15 that that rate is going to be lower than if the 16 creditor, because of the cash flow problem, has 17 to go to a bank where the rate will be much 18 higher. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: I see. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's what I 21 was asking. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: I understand, 23 Senator, but it doesn't really make any 24 difference other than maybe a quarter percent 25 whether they go to the bank or not. It's very 1 little different. They still, if they're going 2 to have to borrow money at 11 or 12 percent, 3 it's going to make very little difference 4 between the prime rate and the nine percent. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: But, Senator 6 Holland, there is a difference between the prime 7 rate and the lending rate I guess is what I'm 8 trying to say. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: I understand. 10 I understand. A bank will lend, your point is 11 from last year's questioning, as a matter of 12 fact a bank will lend at maybe 11 or 12 13 percent. If he has to go -- he or she has to go 14 to the bank to ask for a loan, they're going to 15 pay that anyway regardless of what this rate is, 16 and this rate is designed to save money for the 17 taxpayers by paying less. 18 What's happening, Senator, I'm 19 sure you know, if there is a judgment, the 20 judges are now saying, nine percent to 21 municipalities all the time. This is just 22 lowering that percentage a little bit. Whether 23 the individual has to go to the bank to get a 24 loan or not won't change the interest rate he or 25 she has to pay. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 4 much, Senator Holland. 5 Mr. President, on the bill. It 6 was just that the rate of difference between 7 what would be the prime rate and the lending 8 rate I thought could actually be a couple of 9 points or so as the prime rate is under 9 10 percent, when taking into account what the 11 lending rates certainly are. It could have been 12 a more substantial difference which individuals 13 are going to have to inevitably pay back. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secre... 15 Senator Leichter. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 This is such an unfair bill, just 19 to say, well, it's good for the taxpayers. The 20 point is that somebody's been injured, a jury or 21 judge has found that somebody was wronged by a 22 municipality, doesn't matter whether it's a 23 municipality or business or an individual. 24 The whole idea of the law is to 25 put people in as good a position as they would 1 have been if that injury -- if that wrong had 2 not occurred. Now, if the municipality has 3 failed to pay on a contract and a businessman 4 has to go out to his bank and he has to borrow 5 money at 12 or 14 percent, he ought to be 6 compensated for the loss that he had. 7 You might just as well say, 8 Senator Holland, any judgment against a 9 municipality ought to be halved. Sure, it might 10 be good for the taxpayers until one of those 11 taxpayers finds out that they were the ones who 12 were injured. Makes absolutely no sense. 13 Why should a municipality be in 14 any other or different situation than any other 15 defendant? You ought to pay to make the person 16 right. You never should have committed the 17 wrong in the first place. 18 I argued against that bill last 19 time. I just say -- I just say to you I just 20 hope, Senator Holland, you never find yourself 21 in the position where a municipality has done 22 something to you which a jury or a judge later 23 finds to be wrong, and they'll say, Well, you 24 know, we want to help the taxpayer so we're not 25 going to make you whole. 1 I think it's a bad bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on November 1st. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 10 the results when tabulated. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 14 say, I think pretty much everything has been 15 said, but there was a time when the situation 16 was reversed, when the interest rate was really 17 low that you could get, well, not reversed but 18 even more dramatic, the interest rate was really 19 low. I think it was 6 percent, and the prime 20 rate was 14, 15 percent, and there were a whole 21 slew of things in the city of Syracuse, 22 certiorari cases where the property owner would 23 win and the city would owe a certain amount of 24 money and the city would never pay because 6 25 percent is all that they're risking by letting 1 this thing delay forever and ever to be paid and 2 they could leave money in the bank and get a 3 much higher interest rate because there was a 4 higher interest rate being paid on CDs. 5 I think the bill's a good idea. 6 We should save taxpayers money all the time. 7 However, you know, in order to be fair, just 8 link it to the prime rate, and I'm just asking 9 for both sides, with no cap or a cap both ways, 10 so that that inequity doesn't occur, and I would 11 urge in the negotiations about the bill that 12 that would be the next step. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 89 are Senators 15 Abate, Connor, DeFrancisco, Gentile, Gonzalez, 16 Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, 17 Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson, 18 Stavisky, and Waldon, also Senator Rosado. Ayes 19 41, nays 16. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 Senator Skelos, that completes 23 the controversial calendar. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's 2 nothing at the desk, Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no 4 further business, I move we adjourn until 5 Tuesday, February 11th, at 3:00 p.m. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, Senate stands adjourned until 8 tomorrow, Tuesday, February 11th, at 3:00 p.m. 9 (Whereupon at 4:25 p.m., the 10 Senate adjourned. ) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18