Wednesday, February 26, 1997

1064 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 February 26, 1997 11 11:04 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1065 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would everyone please rise and 4 join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 The invocation today will be 8 given by Reverend Finley Schaef. He is the 9 Pastor of the Park Slop United Methodist Church 10 in Brooklyn. Reverend Schaef. 11 REVEREND FINLEY SCHAEF: Thank 12 you. The ethical and moral part of Christianity 13 and Judaism can be found in the few sentences in 14 the book of Luke, the 4th Chapter, where Jesus 15 said, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me and has 16 anointed me. I am sent to bring good news to 17 the poor, to set at liberty the oppressed, to 18 release the prisoners and to proclaim the 19 acceptable year of the Lord. 20 He spoke these words in the 21 Synagogue in his home town of Nazareth, and he 22 was quoting the Hebrew Prophet Isaiah. So it is 23 the vision of both Judaism and Christianity. 24 Let us pray. 25 We thank You, dear God, that we 1066 1 are brought together, that we have 2 responsibilities for the welfare of all. We 3 pray that we may have the wisdom to take these 4 words of Jesus and Isaiah, translate them into a 5 compassionate politics, so that we may bring 6 good news to the poor, to those on welfare; to 7 set at liberty the oppressed and to release 8 prisoners rather than to build more prisons, and 9 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord 10 which is to re-distribute wealth. We ask in the 11 name of both Jesus and Isaiah. Amen. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Amen. 13 The reading of the Journal, 14 please. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Tuesday, February 25th. The Senate met pursuant 17 to adjournment. The Journal of Monday, February 18 24th, was read and approved. On motion, Senate 19 adjourned. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 22 Presentation of petitions. 23 Messages from the Assembly. 24 Messages from the Governor. 25 Reports of standing committees. 1067 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi, 3 from the Committee on Corporations, Authorities 4 and Commissions, reports the following bills: 5 Senate Print 476, by Senator 6 Skelos, an act to amend the General Business 7 Corporation Law; 8 785, by Senator Cook, an act to 9 amend the New York State Urban Development 10 Corporation Act and the Omnibus Economic 11 Development Act of 1987; 12 Senate Print 786, by Senator 13 Cook, an act to amend the Facilities Development 14 Corporation Act; 15 Senate Print 2592, by Senator 16 Marchi, an act to amend the Public Authorities 17 Law, the Tax Law, the New York State Financial 18 Emergency Act for the city of New York and the 19 Administrative Code of the city of New York. 20 All bills ordered direct for 21 third reading. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, all bills ordered directly to third 24 reading. 25 Reports of select committees. 1068 1 Communications and reports from 2 state officers. 3 Motions and resolutions. 4 Senator Marcellino. 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 6 President. I move that the following bills be 7 discharged from their respective committees and 8 be recommitted with instructions to strike the 9 enacting clause: Specifically on behalf of 10 Senator Johnson, Senate Number 1480. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So 12 ordered. 13 Senator Skelos, we have one 14 substitution we'd like to take up at this time. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Make the 16 substitution. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the substitution. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann 20 moves to discharge from the Committee on 21 Education Assembly Bill Number 2462 and 22 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 23 Calendar 207. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 25 Substitution is ordered. 1069 1 Senator Skelos, that brings us to 2 the calendar. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 at this time may we please take up Senate 2592, 5 Calendar 226, which has been reported from the 6 Corporations Committee. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 226, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2592, an 11 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, the Tax 12 Law, the New York State Financial Emergency Act 13 for the city of New York and the Administrative 14 Code of the city of New York. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 16 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 17 read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 1070 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 at this time if we could have a reading of the 4 non-controversial calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the non-controversial calendar. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 68, an act to 9 amend the Executive Law and the Estates, Powers 10 and Trusts Law. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Will you lay that 12 aside for the day at the request of the sponsor. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside for the day. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 51, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 126, an 17 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 18 prohibiting abandonment. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 77, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 506, an act 1071 1 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 2 establishing a Staten Island borough. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 100, by Senator Present, Senate Print 539, an 8 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 9 relation to eligibility for youthful offender 10 status. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 12 will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 157, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 916, an act 24 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 25 relation to establishing an advisory committee 1072 1 on truck weights. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 158, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1387, an 14 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 15 relation to partitions and shields in taxicabs. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the same date as 20 Chapter 550. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 1073 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 162, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 1388, 4 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 5 Law, in relation to exemptions for hazardous 6 packaging. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 10 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 166, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 463, an act 19 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 20 expanding student aid programs for Vietnam and 21 Persian Gulf veterans. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 25 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 1074 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Stachowski, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Is Calendar 12 158 still in the house? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 158 still 14 in the house? Yes, it is, Senator. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would you - 16 how do you do it? Motion to reconsider the 17 vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: A motion 19 to reconsider the vote by which Calendar Number 20 158, Senate Print 1997, I believe -- excuse me, 21 1387 passed the house. Secretary will call the 22 roll on -- or, excuse me, read the title. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 158, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1387, an 25 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 1075 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll on reconsideration. 3 (The Secretary called the roll on 4 reconsideration. ) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will continue to read the non-controversial 10 calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 168, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 546, an act 13 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 14 relation to producer referendum under the 15 Rogers-Allen law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 1076 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 169, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 719, an act 3 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 4 relation to examination of horses for equine 5 infectious anemia. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 173, by Senator Larkin. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 207, substituted earlier today, by member of the 23 Assembly Magee, Assembly Print 2462. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 25 bill aside. 1077 1 Senator Skelos, that completes 2 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could take 4 up the controversial calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the controversial calendar beginning 7 with Calendar Number 51, Senate Print 126, by 8 Senator Stafford. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 51, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 126, an 11 act to amend the Highway Law. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay aside 13 temporarily. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside temporarily. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 77, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 506, an act 18 to amend the Education Law, in relation to 19 establishment of a Staten Island Borough School 20 District. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Stavisky. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: May we have an 24 explanation of the bill? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1078 1 Marchi, an explanation of Calendar Number 77, 2 Senate Print 506, has been requested by Senator 3 Stavisky. 4 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 5 this is -- this bill is virtually identical with 6 one that we passed last year. 7 SENATOR GOLD: A clone? 8 SENATOR MARCHI: Pardon? 9 SENATOR GOLD: Is it a clone? 10 SENATOR MARCHI: It's a clone, 11 despite my protestations. 12 And this would establish a quasi 13 independent board in the county of Richmond. 14 The county of Richmond is totally -- the school 15 district is co-terminous with the county. All 16 of Staten Island is District 31. The school 17 population is something between 30- and 40,000, 18 and it is not that dissimilar from virtually any 19 other district throughout the state in terms of 20 size, and perhaps it's a little larger than 21 many. 22 We have had fairly good even ten 23 ored performance in Staten Island of this board 24 and so it is only natural, I think, that they - 25 they are looking forward to continuing that 1079 1 system, not with any disparagement for what's 2 going on in the rest of the city. 3 The chancellor is making and 4 exercising a Herculean effort to address some 5 very serious problems, and he certainly has our 6 full support and good will on that. 7 We are singularly blessed, I 8 think, in the county of Richmond in the fact 9 that even though it might have been a little 10 more profitable if we had split up into two 11 districts, the feeling there was to keep it 12 under one district. It provides among other - 13 this board would elect its membership in the 14 November election, and it would do it on the 15 basis -- my plan had been to have it on a 16 cumulative vote basis, but that is not possible 17 because of the limitations that our present 18 machines have. As a matter of fact, I had 19 correspondence with Lani Guinier on that very 20 subject, because that is -- that is the 21 objective that we were looking for, but it is 22 not available to us by reason of the limitation 23 on the machines. 24 The superintendent of that 25 district would come by criteria developed by the 1080 1 Commissioner of Education of this state, and he 2 would be elected by the board, but he would have 3 to have the approval and consent of the -- of 4 the Commissioner of Education of the state of 5 New York; and also those who exercise 6 supervisory capacity would have that same 7 limitation affecting it. 8 The four-year -- we have 9 four-year terms for the board members. As I 10 say, we have not had the usual run of problems 11 that -- that have beset other communities, and 12 the operation of a board that would be 13 responsible given the ideal circumstances, I 14 think, establishes a kind of yardstick which can 15 be used for comparison purposes by other 16 districts, and at least to -- where there is a 17 board of education, popularly elected, that's 18 formulating policy, the employer would continue 19 to be the city of New York. All contractual 20 labor agreements would be -- would apply, and we 21 would function under that same auspices, and the 22 -- the four-year term, we would have that 23 election on the same day in November in which 24 the New York City Mayor and City Council are 25 elected. Each voter would be eligible to vote 1081 1 for three candidates. 2 So Staten Island has a good 3 record, notwithstanding the demographics. We 4 have had consistently, without interruption 5 under the old system, a good representation of 6 minority elected members in the Staten Island 7 board, and this singularly salutory performance 8 on the part of Staten Island ensures that it 9 will -- it will certainly be observed in future 10 elections. 11 I strongly suggest to my members 12 who might be a little troubled that we're a 13 little different in desiring the continuation of 14 what the rest of the state -- the rest of the 15 state has this, virtually -- virtually every, 16 outside the city of New York, it -- except that 17 we would continue to be fiscally dependent and 18 the fiscal dependency would be a process of 19 appropriation. It would change nothing with 20 respect to that. 21 So I -- we have a yardstick here 22 that I think would be salutory and it would be 23 observed in the way they perform and -- and as 24 the situation improves and normalizes throughout 25 the rest of the city they may be attracted to do 1082 1 it the same way. The city take emergency 2 measures and, as I say, I acknowledge the fact 3 that Herculean task of what's being assumed by 4 the chancellor. I certainly wish him well, but 5 this, I think, is a complementary accompaniment 6 of school governance in the city of New York 7 where it is utterly and totally feasible given 8 the percentage of people that could participate 9 even under the present system of election - 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Goodman, why do you rise? 13 SENATOR GOODMAN: It's impossible 14 to hear the speaker. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I was 16 just noticing the same thing. Can we have a 17 little order in the house, please. Members 18 please take their seats, staff please take their 19 seats. We hate to have to remove the staff this 20 early in the session. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 24 you, Senator Marchi. Sorry for the 25 interruption. 1083 1 SENATOR MARCHI: We would 2 establish a financial officer. The 3 qualifications would be set up by the 4 Commissioner of Education, and it would have to 5 be supported by the board and the nominee and 6 the consent again of the Commissioner of 7 Education, so that I -- we have addressed in a 8 very careful manner, I think, all of the aspects 9 that would characterize a separate district. 10 So I believe that this board 11 which is earnestly desired in Staten Island, 12 very -- there's scarcely a dissenting voice 13 anywhere in the county -- I haven't heard any 14 dissenting voice. I've only heard full -- full 15 support and approval of this proposal, that it 16 be given a fair trial, and I -- I think that the 17 entire City would benefit by having this 18 yardstick and the people of Staten Island, I 19 think, given the prologue that is represented by 20 its present performance ensures that it will 21 expand and enhance the school board system of 22 education which is that which, in fact, most of 23 you have experienced throughout the state, an 24 opportunity to operate on Staten Island. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1084 1 Stavisky, did you wish to continue to be 2 recognized? 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Stavisky. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 7 I say this with profound respect for the sponsor 8 of this legislation who has labored for many 9 years in the field of education and has always 10 been constructive in the way in which he 11 approaches such issues. 12 Nevertheless, unlike the original 13 borough board plan which was to apply to all of 14 the districts and all of the counties in New 15 York City, this does not have a parallel 16 situation with regard to any other county. You 17 have here a borough board in Staten Island but 18 in no other county. You have powers that are 19 given to this borough board at the same time 20 that powers are retained by the Central Board of 21 Education, and I believe that the objective is a 22 separate Staten Island school district and 23 perhaps a separate Staten Island, which may be 24 the ultimate objective. 25 We cannot have a situation where 1085 1 in individuals are subject to differences in the 2 standards by which they are elected or served 3 from county to county, borough to borough. If 4 you want secession for Staten Island, then 5 that's a different situation, but I don't 6 believe secession was a great idea in 1860 and 7 it has not improved with age. 8 Under the circumstances, because 9 there is a commingling of functions that, in the 10 rest of the city and the rest of the school 11 districts, would be reserved by the Central 12 Board of Education but here would be given to 13 the borough board, and the inconsistency between 14 the election here, the powers that are granted 15 here to the Staten Island borough board and the 16 powers that are not granted to school districts 17 anywhere else in the state, I think under these 18 circumstances, this limited bill poses a problem 19 and does not merit the support of all the 20 members of the chamber. 21 I would like very much, Senator 22 Marchi, to be able to support a program that you 23 would wish to see, but this does not necessarily 24 fall within that category. It's a special bill 25 with special provisions for Staten Island that 1086 1 would exist nowhere else in the city of New 2 York, in the Bronx, in Manhattan, in Queens, in 3 Brooklyn. They do not have under your bill 4 anything comparable, and I believe that you may 5 wish to reconsider the implications of having a 6 semi-secession by one borough and one borough's 7 school board in comparison with what is needed 8 to reform the system as a whole. 9 You have purchases that are being 10 made by this borough board that are not 11 necessarily the same as the purchases that are 12 made by the Central Board of Education. You may 13 have personnel decisions that are made by this 14 borough board that are not commensurate with the 15 personnel decisions that exist anywhere else in 16 the New York City School District. You may have 17 agreements that are worked out by this borough 18 board that put them at variance with regard to 19 the opportunities that are available to teachers 20 and others elsewhere in the City. 21 If you want to do a five-borough 22 board situation, that's a different approach, 23 but that does not exist in your legislation. 24 Because of the separatism, I believe that not 25 all the members of this session -- of this 1087 1 Legislature, as supportive as we are of your 2 goal, should automatically vote for your bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 4 recognizes Senator Gentile. 5 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. President, 6 on the bill. I rise in support of the bill put 7 forth by my colleague, my friend and my partner 8 on Staten Island, Senator Marchi. 9 What better place to try this 10 experiment than in the smallest borough of New 11 York City, Staten Island? In the other 12 boroughs, there are multiple school board 13 districts. Staten Island, as Senator Marchi has 14 pointed out, has only one school district. So 15 what better place to try this experiment than on 16 the -- on Staten Island? 17 You know, it is -- we've had this 18 new law reforming the school boards that had 19 just passed the end of last year, but you know, 20 that law is not responsive to the needs of the 21 Staten Island School District. Indeed, that new 22 law corrected some of the improprieties that we 23 found in the other school districts around the 24 city. Staten Island did not have those problems 25 so, in effect, Staten Island has been penalized 1088 1 by much of what's gone on in the new 2 legislation. In fact, it's not responsive to 3 some of the things that Staten Island most 4 needs. 5 For example, only yesterday - 6 only yesterday I had faculty members from P.S. 7 41 on Staten Island in my office pleading with 8 me over the growth in the student population and 9 the need for new schools on Staten Island that 10 is not being addressed by the central board of 11 education. 12 They have asked for our 13 leadership in creating some kind of proposal so 14 that we can address those specific issues in 15 Staten Island. That is what this legislation 16 can do if we pass it. 17 Now, for those of you who might 18 say this is only a precursor to a secession bill 19 on Staten Island, well, in fact this may be a 20 precursor to a secession bill for Staten Island 21 if we do not recognize the special needs of 22 Staten Island. 23 You know, Staten Island has for 24 too long been overlooked by New York City in 25 trying -- in their governance structure. 1089 1 They've been overburdened in New York City with 2 the dump -- and I don't ascribe to the euphemism 3 that some of my colleagues use and call it a 4 landfill. I call it a dump. And so I say, if 5 we don't recognize the special needs of Staten 6 Islanders, then indeed this may be a precursor 7 to a secession bill. 8 But -- so I support Senator 9 Marchi's bill and ask my colleagues on both 10 sides of the aisle to let us show -- let us show 11 that we care about Staten Islanders. Let us 12 show that we care and have the competence - 13 that Staten Islanders have the ability to run 14 their own school district. Let us pass this 15 bill. 16 Thank you. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Connor. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, Mr. 21 President. As I've often said on this floor, I 22 have a unique perspective on Staten Island bills 23 having once upon a time been privileged for ten 24 years to represent part of Staten Island. Since 25 I have not represented Staten Island, I must 1090 1 confess my attention has strayed elsewhere 2 despite the eloquent advocacies over these past 3 couple years by Senator Marchi, and I did change 4 my mind about certainly some Staten Island 5 issues like one-way tolls that I once supported, 6 and today I'm here to announce another change of 7 mind, frankly. 8 Two years ago, I voted against 9 this bill. I'll have to admit I guess I wasn't 10 paying close attention to what Senator Marchi 11 said at the time, certainly not out of any lack 12 of respect for his views, but I guess my 13 attention was elsewhere. 14 Well, something happened, Mr. 15 President, this year. Someone got my 16 attention. One of the newer members of this 17 chamber, Senator Gentile, came to me and 18 reminded me of that unique situation Staten 19 Islanders find themselves in, the smallest 20 borough, the island borough, the borough that 21 can brag of a green belt, the borough that can 22 in fact, if they got their way I suppose, be the 23 second largest city in the state, and the fact 24 that Staten Island is a community school 25 district all in and of itself and has been, and 1091 1 after the discussion with Senator Gentile, I 2 have to say, Mr. President, I've changed my mind 3 once again. Call me fickle, if you will, but I 4 think the people of Staten Island make a good 5 case for this bill, and I intend to support it. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 9 Senator Marchi? 10 SENATOR MARCHI: An embarrassment 11 of riches here. Senator, that was a masterful 12 presentation, Senator, and the accretion to our 13 forces here is certainly impressive. I have 14 unbounded respect for Senator Stavisky. We did 15 offer, however - 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Marchi, Senator Marchi. Excuse me just a 18 minute. Senator Marchi. Excuse me just a 19 minute. It's getting noisy again. Could the 20 Senators please take their seats. If they have 21 conversations, take them out of the chamber. 22 Serious debate going on, would like to hear it. 23 Thank you for the interruption. 24 Senator Marchi. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you again, 1092 1 Mr. President. 2 I certainly yield to nobody -- to 3 no one in my respect for Senator Stavisky and 4 what he has meant back many, many years in the 5 field of education as well as other matters. 6 We did offer, of course, and 7 force majeure in the other areas of policy 8 developed, that this was the only solution that 9 ought to be brought into play given the present 10 circumstances. I respect it, I yield to it but, 11 on the other hand, this is an opportunity to - 12 to have side by side at least an exemplar of the 13 traditional mode of doing it. 14 And so I have no quarrel with 15 you, sir, as I say I had originally offered 16 this, but this was not -- not to be. So I again 17 am delighted at the turn of events, and it would 18 appear that perhaps in this house at least we 19 will have support for this bill, and I hope that 20 since in the field of education -- secession is 21 something else; that is still a cherished dream, 22 but there are circumstances that have impeded 23 its consideration. 24 There are no similar reservations 25 on -- in the field of education where the 1093 1 Legislature obviously has the final say on -- in 2 these matters, so I would hope that as many 3 members convey the feeling that we can reflect 4 back to Staten Island that there is considerable 5 support in this house for the proposal that has 6 been advanced here this morning. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 9 Hearing none, the Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 12 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 17 the results when tabulated. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 77 are Senators 20 Abate, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, Leichter, 21 Nanula, Oppenheimer, Santiago and Stavisky. 22 Ayes -- also Senator Seabrook. Ayes 48, nays 23 10. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 1094 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 at this time would you call up Calendar Number 4 51, Senate 126, by Senator Stafford. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 51, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 126, an 9 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 10 prohibiting abandonment of Crane Pond Road. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stafford, an explanation of Calendar Number 51 13 has been requested. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 15 this will be the first time we've discussed 16 Crane Pond since Senator Oppenheimer has the 17 seat that she has chosen for this legislative 18 two years, but we always have a visit, and this 19 will make it easier because I had trouble 20 hearing when she was in her previous seat. 21 I will not -- try not to be light 22 about this, because a number of us feel very 23 strongly about it. On the other hand, all you'd 24 have to do is take out and read the debate from 25 5-15-91, 3-27-92, 5-11-94, 1-30-95, 2-12-96, and 1095 1 you would hear what we are talking about. 2 Without being light but trying to 3 keep our sense of humor, let me explain 4 something here. This is a road that's been 5 maintained by the town. It goes through the 6 Pharaoh Mountain area. The powers that be in 7 the Department, a number of years ago, called 8 this a wilderness area. 9 My friends, I have stood there 10 and you hear the cars on the Northway. If 11 that's a wilderness area, then I'm missing 12 something. It isn't, my friend. We passed a 13 bill. The argument is going to be made, let's 14 look at the overall plan. This is serious 15 enough for the people who want to use this area, 16 such as the physically challenged, elderly and 17 the very young will be not able to enjoy this 18 area as they do now. 19 The town maintains it. It's a 20 beautiful area; it's a public area. I 21 respectfully submit that a mistake was made 22 calling this a wilderness area and, therefore, I 23 rise again to support this legislation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Oppenheimer. 1096 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It wouldn't 2 be a session if we weren't discussing Crane 3 Pond, and I understand what Senator Stafford 4 says, and I appreciate it, but there's another 5 side to this which I would like to present, and 6 that is that the state land master plan was 7 created to preserve wilderness areas. 8 There is within that plan a 9 revision process which includes public hearings, 10 and it occurs every five years. In the 1970s, 11 there were 12 to 15 wilderness areas that were 12 designated in the Adirondacks, and Pharaoh Lake 13 wilderness area, in which this Crane Pond Road 14 is, is one of those areas. 15 In that area we have seen 16 considerable degradation and litter due to the 17 influence of people coming into an area that is 18 supposed to be a wilderness area, and so in 1987 19 the Crane Pond Road -- and that's not so long 20 ago -- was designated specifically, officially 21 for closure, and barriers were put up and within 22 a brief period of time barriers were taken down 23 by the local people. 24 We know many instances where 25 localities have not been pleased with things 1097 1 that have been placed within their environs but 2 the fact is we have law here, and the town of 3 Schroon, they did pursue legal efforts and they 4 were effectively halted when the state Court of 5 Appeals upheld the state land master plan. So 6 they have gone to court, they have tried to 7 pursue this through the normal process which is 8 this five-year review, and they have not been 9 successful. So obviously there is a state plan 10 that says that there are areas where local 11 citizens may not agree, but it is in the 12 interest of the state. 13 A wilderness area is for 14 individuals who are seeking a wilderness 15 experience which will be free of the motor 16 vehicles, and this bill simply flouts the law, 17 and it's a dangerous precedent. The state 18 master plan would simply lose all of its vision, 19 its impact, its integrity if we were to pass 20 this bill. 21 There is a review process which 22 allows amendments, and the locality simply has 23 not been able to make its best case, so to 24 circumvent the law this way, I think, threatens 25 not only this wilderness area but it threatens 1098 1 all wilderness areas, and I might add that 2 approximately half of the public forest preserve 3 lands in the Adirondacks are classified as wild 4 forest and in those areas there is motor vehicle 5 usage. 6 So I think this bill would be a 7 very bad precedent. It would say that our state 8 land master plan really doesn't mean anything, 9 and I think we must stand behind that and 10 protect our wilderness areas. 11 So I will be voting no. In the 12 past many of my colleagues have joined me on 13 this including, Senators Abate, Connor, 14 Dollinger, Leichter, Gold, Markowitz, 15 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Paterson, Smith, 16 Stachowski, also on the other side of the aisle 17 Senators Goodman, Leibell, Levy, Marcellino and 18 Maziarz. So I would hope that we would have the 19 same kind of support this year that we have had 20 in the past. 21 Thank you. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Stafford. 1099 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 2 Senator Oppenheimer and I worked on the bond 3 issue together. There are things we agree 4 upon. This is something we disagree upon. My 5 friends, first we're not circumventing. We pass 6 the laws here, and the bureaucrats don't tell us 7 what to do. We tell them what to do and, if we 8 don't, we're not doing our job. So I would 9 respectfully submit that we're circumventing 10 nothing. 11 Secondly, I can't emphasize this 12 enough. You stand there and you can hear the 13 cars on the Northway. This is not a wilderness 14 area. I'm not a professional in the DEC, but 15 I've lived there all my life, and I'm even 16 mellowing on some of these issues, but on this 17 one, please, I assure you that this is not a 18 wilderness area and this will allow -- this will 19 allow physically challenged, elderly and you can 20 bring in young families and they can enjoy one 21 of the most great areas -- a great area of the 22 state part of the Adirondacks. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 24 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 25 Senator Leichter. 1100 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 just very briefly, on this bill. 3 There's just one thing that I 4 think Senator Stafford said that I think needs a 5 little clarification and let me say I appreciate 6 how assiduously he represents his area, because 7 I happen to have a home in his district and I 8 know how highly he's considered by the people in 9 his district, and rightly so. 10 But, Senator, if you make the 11 test of whether you can hear cars on the 12 Northway as to whether it's a wilderness area or 13 not, then many parts that you would agree are 14 wilderness would no longer meet that -- meat 15 that classification. 16 SENATOR STAFFORD: I -- I very 17 seldom -- I do interrupt, I seldom but I do. I 18 apologize, but would you please answer a 19 question? 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, sir. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Name me one 22 other place that's a wilderness area that you 23 can hear cars from the Northway. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, I was 25 just going to do it. I climbed a couple years 1101 1 ago McCoo, which is a trailless peak; it's a 2 4,000-foot peak. 3 SENATOR STAFFORD: There's a 4 trail there, but you can't see it very well. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, all 6 right. In any event, you're 4,000 feet up, it 7 happens to overlook the Northway; you look down 8 and you can hear the cars. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: If you can 10 hear the cars there, I'll buy you a dinner in 11 any place in the United States of America. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you make 13 the reservation at Lutece, please. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Where is that? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 16 Gentlemen! Gentlemen! The Chair would like to 17 know whether that offer stands for the Chair 18 also. 19 Senator Stafford. 20 SENATOR STAFFORD: I apologize. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 1102 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the 3 roll.). 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Slow roll 5 call. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 7 five members in the chamber standing who would 8 request a slow roll call? There are. 9 Secretary will call the roll 10 slowly. 11 Senator Stafford, did you wish to 12 be recognized? 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: The first shot 14 has been fired across the bow. 15 Withdraw the roll call. Lay the 16 bill aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is laid aside. 19 Secretary will continue to read 20 the controversial calendar. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 158, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1387, an 23 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 24 relation to partitions and shields. 25 SENATOR LACHMAN: Explanation on 1103 1 the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Velella, an explanation of Calendar Number 158 4 has been requested by Senator Lachman. 5 SENATOR VELELLA: This bill would 6 give local governments an option to opt out of a 7 bill that we passed last year requiring safety 8 shields in taxicabs. It would give the local 9 governments the opportunity to address a state 10 mandate and address it in a way that was more 11 adaptable to their local government. If they 12 choose to change some of the provisions, they 13 would have the opportunity to do that. Right 14 now, we have just a blanket requirement for any 15 municipality that has over 75,000 people to put 16 these barriers up. 17 A lot of local governments have 18 contacted us that they have their own safety 19 provisions in place including the city of New 20 York, and that the state mandate poses an unfair 21 burden to some of the taxicab operators in local 22 governance. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Lachman. 25 SENATOR LACHMAN: Will the 1104 1 distinguished Senator yield for a couple of 2 questions? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Velella, do you yield? 5 SENATOR VELELLA: Certainly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 yields. 8 SENATOR LACHMAN: Does the 9 Senator know what percentage of non-medallion 10 for-hire vehicles currently have safety 11 partitions in New York City? 12 Now, the reason why I ask this 13 question is there has been only one killing of a 14 cab driver in a medallion cab in the three years 15 since partitions were required, but there have 16 been 27 livery drivers, non-medallion, who have 17 been killed. So do you have any idea at this 18 point what percentage of non-medallion for-hire 19 vehicles currently have partitions in New York 20 City? 21 SENATOR VELELLA: No, I don't. 22 SENATOR LACHMAN: I have another 23 question or two if the Senator will continue to 24 yield. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 1105 1 Velella, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR LACHMAN: In light of the 6 number of non-medallion deaths last year in New 7 York City, couldn't these drivers have benefited 8 from better safety equipment? 9 SENATOR VELELLA: Senator, I 10 wouldn't have enough knowledge to answer that 11 question. I don't know the particular case of 12 each shooting or each fatality, and I couldn't 13 tell you if certain types of safety equipment 14 would have prevented that crime or not prevented 15 it. 16 SENATOR LACHMAN: I understand. 17 I understand. 18 SENATOR VELELLA: The purpose of 19 this bill is to allow the local government to 20 make that decision. 21 SENATOR LACHMAN: I understand. 22 SENATOR VELELLA: We ought not to 23 be dictating from Albany what a local government 24 should be doing. 25 SENATOR LACHMAN: I understand 1106 1 what you're trying to do. One more question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Velella, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR LACHMAN: On a personal 8 basis, Senator, wouldn't it be better to require 9 these safety devices in cities over 75,000 10 throughout the state of New York as originally 11 drafted and simply exempt the class of taxis 12 which today clearly do not need these safety 13 devices? 14 SENATOR VELELLA: Well, Senator, 15 I believe that we ought to let the local 16 governments make that decision. We in Albany 17 cannot decide what is beneficial to each 18 community that has 75,000 or more. We have a 19 law in place that says everybody must have these 20 shields. If, in fact, that presents a problem 21 to a particular locality, this will give them 22 the opportunity to address that problem. If 23 they don't address it, then they need to have 24 the shield. 25 SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you, 1107 1 Senator. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: You're welcome. 3 SENATOR LACHMAN: You've been 4 honest and candid with the questions. On the 5 bill, I'd like to make a statement. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Lachman, on the bill. 8 SENATOR LACHMAN: This bill that 9 is sponsored by Senator Velella does address a 10 problem that was created when partitions were 11 required in all taxicabs that was passed by law 12 last year. 13 Now, black cars, cars used by 14 corporations, that are billed on account, do not 15 currently accept cash and, therefore, do not 16 accept street hails when somebody wants to hail 17 such a car on the street, and they are not 18 necessarily in need of partitions and safety 19 latch. 20 If an exemption was not created 21 it would cost the industry a great deal of money 22 and make these cars less luxurious for many of 23 their corporate clients. Since New York City 24 already regulates their taxi industry through 25 the Taxi and Limousine Commission and requires 1108 1 the safety devices on many cabs, their 2 exemptions from these requirements will hope 3 fully have little negative impact on driver 4 safety which should be our major goal, and I'm 5 sure is the Senator's major goal. 6 I do believe that we need to go 7 further than this bill does, but I do 8 appreciate, Senator, the need to quickly correct 9 most of the problem in New York City for the 10 black car industry. Furthermore, I have been 11 assured by the New York City Taxi and Limousine 12 Commission that they will be expanding their 13 partition requirements for many more for-hire 14 vehicles in the future. 15 Now, how do I vote? I would have 16 preferred a bill which simply carves out an 17 exemption or an exception to the vehicles where 18 the safety devices are clearly not needed, but 19 in its absence, this bill will have to do. I, 20 therefore, will vote in the affirmative on this 21 legislation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 24 Senator Dollinger. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 1109 1 President, I sometimes find myself in unusual 2 positions. I'm in the unusual position of 3 agreeing with my colleague from the Bronx. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 5 would you star the bill. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I want you to 7 know, Mr. President - 8 SENATOR GOLD: He's serious. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- when he 10 was referred to as "the distinguished Senator" I 11 was going to object as a point of order, but I 12 did not, so -- but nonetheless, I do agree with 13 my colleague from the Bronx. 14 When we pass this legislation 15 it's like many pieces of legislation, 16 beneficial, intended to protect people but one 17 of the things that we forgot was that there are 18 local communities that have already established 19 criteria for protection of cab drivers. They 20 already have well established regulations. They 21 have better ability to respond to the kinds of 22 problems that occurred in Albany and that have 23 occurred in New York with the occasional 24 shooting of cab drivers -- enormously 25 regrettable incidents, something that we should 1110 1 be aware of, but currently the local communities 2 have all the protection that they need. 3 One of those communities that I 4 believe contacted the Senate, and I know we 5 proposed a bill was to exempt the city of 6 Rochester from these requirements because in the 7 judgment of the cab operators in Rochester, it's 8 not needed and in the judgment of the City 9 Council it's not needed and, therefore, I think 10 this bill is a good idea. It reverses a mandate 11 that was nonetheless beneficial in its intent 12 but turned out to be oppressive and changed the 13 marketplace inadvertently. So I think we're 14 making a good move today by stepping back, 15 letting local communities size up the extent of 16 this problem. Let them solve it. It's the 17 right way to do it. 18 I'll be voting in the 19 affirmative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 21 Senator wishing to speak on this bill? Hearing 22 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the same date as 25 Chapter 550. 1111 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Secretary will continue to read 8 the controversial calendar. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 173, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 912, an act 11 to amend the Election Law, in relation to the 12 hours for voting. 13 SENATOR LACHMAN: Explanation. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin, an explanation of Calendar Number 173 16 has been requested by a couple of Senators. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 18 this bill is a very simple bill. It's been a 19 refined bill from the one we had last year which 20 included multiple counties. 21 This bill pertains to a single 22 county, Ulster County, which wants to have the 23 certain privilege that other counties have in 24 this state of having primary election day held 25 from noon until 9:00 p.m. 1112 1 This legislation has been 2 forwarded to us as a resolution from the county 3 of Ulster. It has the support of the Election 4 Commissioners' Association of the state of New 5 York, and the objection that we had last year 6 was that it had two counties, Orange and Ulster, 7 and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle 8 complained about the people in Orange County 9 commuting to New York City, didn't have ample 10 time to vote. We've done that part of it and 11 have taken Orange County out. We've made town 12 meetings across Ulster County, and we find that 13 the residents are in support of this. The 14 county treasurer claims that this will save 15 $19,200 of the county's taxpayers' money, and we 16 believe that this is in the best interest. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR GOLD: Will Senator 21 Larkin yield to one question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Larkin, do you yield to Senator Gold? 24 SENATOR LARKIN: I will yield to 25 one question. 1113 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 yields. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I think 4 one of the questions we asked last year, I think 5 it was on this bill, was whether there was any 6 study that was done as to how many people were 7 actually voting between the hours that you're 8 cutting out of this bill, how many people were 9 affected, and I don't think you had numbers last 10 year. Perhaps you do have that this year and it 11 would give us perhaps a better picture. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I don't 13 have a study, an official study, but last year 14 there was a Conservative primary in Ulster 15 County and between the hours of 6:00 in the 16 morning and noon, there were three people 17 voted. 18 I think to keep all of the booths 19 open for three people to vote is a waste and 20 when you start to think that every county in 21 this state, with the exception of the city of 22 New York, Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester, Erie 23 and Orange, have noon to 9:00 p.m. voting, I 24 think it's only right that we give the voters 25 the opportunity. 1114 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold, was the explanation to your question 3 sufficient? 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I believe 5 Senator Paterson - 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 7 recognizes Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 If Senator Larkin would yield for 11 a question or two. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 15 my question to Senator Larkin is, I'm not sure 16 at first, in response to Senator Gold's question 17 as to whether or not there was a study, my 18 question is, what we're talking about here is 19 cutting out 40 percent of the elapsed 20 voting time that we permit in the primaries, and 21 that's a significant amount of time even if it 22 is from 6:00 a.m. to noon. Now, if only three 23 people are voting in that particular time, I 24 don't know how many people are voting for the 25 whole day, so it does seem to me, I agree with 1115 1 you that three people voting over a six-hour 2 period of time for $19,200, maybe that's a wise 3 decision, I don't know but how many people are 4 voting for the whole day, and I think all 5 Senator Gold was asking was, can we establish 6 that there really is a basis to make this 7 decision rather than speculation or what the 8 point of view is of individuals, even if they're 9 in a significant position? 10 What we're saying is that the 11 value of voting is something that we generally 12 only exercise a few times a year, and it's the 13 basis for us being here in this chamber. We 14 don't want to, in any way, obfuscate or inhibit 15 the opportunity for individuals to exercise that 16 right and, if it is a close call, we would 17 rather err on the side of the voter because 18 that's what sets this country apart from so many 19 places globally, and what we're just saying is 20 how much more foresighted would it be to just 21 simply bring to us the number of people who are 22 voting on that day in Ulster County and the 23 number who voted between 6:00 a.m. and noon and 24 if it's so significantly less, if it's five or 25 ten percent, I guess we should close the polls 1116 1 and open them at noon, but if it's something 2 close to the amount of time that is the 3 percentage of the whole time that is voted that 4 day, I wouldn't want to change it. 5 So my question is, do you 6 actually have those statistics and, if you do, 7 what are they? 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, Senator 9 Paterson, I think we ought to go back to the 10 basics on this. All Ulster County is asking for 11 is the same privileges that all of the rest of 12 the upstate counties have. Every other upstate 13 county north of Ulster County has voting from 14 noon to 9:00 p.m. Why should they be excluded? 15 We have a resolution from the 16 county legislature. It has been discussed, it 17 has been supported by the Association of 18 Election Commissioners, as an upstate issue and 19 I believe that we have -- we should be 20 responding. We come in here and we get requests 21 from counties with legislators to increase the 22 sales tax. We don't ask what do the people 23 think about the sales tax? We have a resolution; 24 we have a home rule resolution. We have a home 25 rule resolution on this bill. 1117 1 The county has evaluated this 2 situation. It's been discussed by their own 3 county legislators. I can only speak for myself 4 and I'm sure Senator Cook could probably tell 5 you, at our town meetings we've asked people, do 6 you have a problem with this, and we've never 7 seen them have a problem. Am I correct, 8 Senator? So here is a county that says, We're 9 sending you a resolution just like we do on 10 sales tax and other things. It's been adopted 11 by our county legislature. We've taken it up, 12 it's an upstate county asking for the same 13 privilege that the rest of the upstate counties 14 have, and I think we have a moral and an ethical 15 obligation. 16 Do you think that the county 17 legislature would try to deny their people an 18 opportunity to vote? I don't. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Was that a 22 question, Senator? 23 Mr. President, the issue of 24 elections and the issue of the electoral 25 process, I think, has to be favored over the 1118 1 value of any other issue, because it really is 2 the basis for our government, and I don't know, 3 I've seen a number of things that were 4 influenced in terms of what boards of elections 5 did, and I'm not talking about Ulster County - 6 I don't know of any there -- but all over the 7 state where there was certainly a feeling, I 8 mean when do we have primary day, Senator? We 9 have primary day in September. People are still 10 coming back from summer vacation. That's not 11 the right time to have primaries. Primary day 12 should probably be in June when the candidates 13 will at least get some momentum up. I feel 14 sorry for candidates who are in primaries in 15 July and August and they're going around to 16 events and there's no one around. Nobody really 17 cares about the process at that time. And who 18 probably in both parties is most interested in 19 having primary day in September? Incumbents, 20 because it makes it more difficult to beat 21 incumbents. 22 So this is a human system, and it 23 often succumbs to the frailties of human conduct 24 and all I'm saying is, if there was an estab 25 lishment of the criteria that would just simply 1119 1 answer the question Senator Gold asked, I would 2 have no problem voting for this bill. I didn't 3 really hear an answer to that question, but you 4 did raise an important issue, and I -- if the 5 Senator would yield, I would ask this question. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Larkin. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Why, when the 9 upstate counties were granted this in the first 10 place, were the counties of Ulster and Orange 11 left out? In other words, if this were a broad 12 situation that the upstate counties should have 13 been afforded, then why were they left out in 14 the first place? Perhaps if you could tell me 15 that it would bring me more insight on why I 16 should vote for the bill. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, first of 18 all, Senator, they weren't. They had the same 19 privileges as the other counties, but back in 20 the late '70s a former colleagues of ours, the 21 late Senator Dick Schermerhorn, and Assemblyman 22 Maurice Hinchey decided to open it up from 6:00 23 in the morning. I believe it lasted about four 24 or five years, and then they asked to remove it 25 because they found out that there were not a 1120 1 significant number of people voting between 6:00 2 and noon, but they were previous to that time 3 excluded, Senator. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, thank 5 you very much, Senator. 6 Then, in other words, just to 7 follow up on Senator Gold's question one last 8 time -- this is the last time I'll ask it -- so 9 that means that for the last 15 years they have 10 not been able to feel comfort from the polls 11 opening at 6:00 a.m., the feeling is that it 12 would be better to move it back to noon because 13 it doesn't really solve much by just having a 14 couple of people vote. 15 So my question simply is in all 16 that time, why didn't they simply just write 17 down the number of people who are voting over 18 the whole day and divide it by the number of 19 people voting between 6:00 o'clock and noon. 20 There would have been an answer that's so 21 obvious that even myself and Senator Gold would 22 have had to admit that the bill should be passed 23 and the time should be relaxed back to noon. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Larkin, I believe Senator Paterson is asking you 1121 1 to yield. Senator Paterson, I don't think 2 Senator Larkin heard the question. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: I really didn't 4 get the question. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: The question 6 is three words: Where's the study? 7 SENATOR LARKIN: The question 8 goes back, Senator, I think if you're looking 9 for a study, I think that's one thing but then I 10 have to go back and ask you the same thing. Why 11 did we vote to allow people to raise the sales 12 tax? Did we see a study that said, before you 13 had the home rule message you should have had a 14 study to find out if the people needed to comply 15 with it. 16 Here we have two things: A bill 17 that was passed many years ago because somebody 18 said the population in the counties is 19 increasing, maybe we need an opportunity to get 20 it. We've now seen that year after year we've 21 had resolutions from the county saying that this 22 is not productive, the number of people coming 23 out to vote, the hours of voting does not 24 produce the voters that we think it should and 25 we should go back to the original concept. 1122 1 Now, we talk about mandates on a 2 local government. Here's a mandate that's 3 costing them $20,000 a year and it hasn't 4 produced any new voters. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 8 me, Senator Gold. 9 Senator Lachman had indicated a 10 prior desire to speak. I'll recognize -- the 11 Chair recognizes Senator Lachman. 12 SENATOR GOLD: May I, Senator? 13 He's deferring. 14 SENATOR LACHMAN: Certainly. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Lachman yield? 17 Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Let me just say 19 one thing to you. I think that in today's 20 debate you said things which are much more - 21 reacting much more sympathetically than I've 22 heard in the past. For example, I think it's 23 important for me to understand that you were in 24 a different ballgame until local legislators 25 asked, because of apparently local need, to be 1123 1 included in this exception. 2 Now local legislators are seeing 3 the change and, as I say, I'm very sympathetic 4 to that, because it looks to me like someone is 5 studying the situation. It's only a suggestion 6 and saying that, I know how suggestions from 7 this side of the aisle are taken in the past but 8 maybe you'll react differently. I think that if 9 you laid this over for a couple days you could 10 probably get some members. 11 You're talking about one county. 12 In fact, for example, that Conservative primary, 13 if let's say a hundred people voted that day 14 just to pick a number, Senator Larkin, let's say 15 a hundred, and three out of a hundred voted in 16 that time frame, that would have a great 17 influence on me, to tell you the truth, and I 18 think that Senator Paterson and I and others are 19 not trying to be difficult in this situation, 20 but it would make it more comfortable for 21 everybody to just see some of those numbers and 22 I'm not telling you if you give me numbers I'm 23 going to ask you to lay it aside because I'm 24 going to send a private investigator to check 25 the numbers, but it seems to me that the numbers 1124 1 are there, and we would like to be helpful and 2 this is not a bill that ought to have to pass 3 with large numbers of negatives if, in fact, 4 it's the right thing to do for this locality and 5 I just am making that suggestion. 6 I'd like to be supportive, 7 Senator, and today you gave us some better 8 insight, I believe. You are dealing with only 9 the one county this year and I think you can get 10 some members that will make this thing fly a lot 11 easier and not only in this house but maybe in 12 the other house. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Lachman. 15 SENATOR LACHMAN: Senator Larkin 16 (talking over) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You asking 18 Senator Larkin to yield, Senator Lachman? 19 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Larkin, do you yield to a question? 22 SENATOR LACHMAN: Senator Larkin, 23 I have just one or two questions at the most. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: (Talking 25 over) Senator Lachman. 1125 1 SENATOR LACHMAN: One or two 2 questions at the most, Senator Larkin. Can you 3 give me in a straightforward simple answer what 4 is the major goal of this legislation? 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Simple, to give 6 -- one, to give the county the same authority 7 that all the rest of the upstate counties have; 8 number two, to acknowledge the fact that we have 9 a resolution from a county, a home rule message, 10 asking us to give them the authority that is 11 vested in them as a county just as we do in 12 anything else that they send up here to us and 13 conform voting patterns consistent with 14 upstate. That's all -- and saving money when it 15 has been proven that they -- it's not 16 necessary. 17 SENATOR LACHMAN: Would it make a 18 difference -- may I continue? Senator continue 19 to yield? 20 Would it make a difference if, 21 forget the word "study", if you discover, 22 Senator Larkin, that not in the Conservative 23 primary where there are fewer voters voting but 24 in the Democratic or Republican Party primary in 25 Ulster County that there is a much larger vote 1126 1 between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 12:00 noon? 2 SENATOR LARKIN: The county has 3 looked at it very carefully. When we 4 restructured the bill this year, we took out 5 Orange County because we're going to look at how 6 many -- the polls are talkin' about people going 7 into New York City. We don't have that problem 8 in Ulster County. I haven't seen anything that 9 has discouraged anybody or increased anybody in 10 those hours in the primaries. We haven't had 11 that many primaries. 12 SENATOR LACHMAN: On the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Lachman, on the bill. 15 SENATOR LACHMAN: I think there 16 is another issue relating to this legislation 17 that has impact beyond Ulster County, and now I 18 don't want to put on the shoulders of Ulster 19 County the responsibility of being a bellwether 20 for the state of New York, but I'm very, very 21 concerned as are my colleagues in this chamber 22 on the voter turn-out in general. I think it is 23 shocking and outrageous that in the 1994 24 Congressional elections only 38 percent of 25 Americans voted, and I think it is equally 1127 1 outrageous that -- and shocking that in the 1996 2 presidential election, less than half of the 3 American people who are eligible to vote, 49 4 percent went to the polls. 5 Now, my problem with the 6 legislation is that rather than cutting down the 7 hours, we should perhaps increase the hours or 8 induce more voters to vote. Of the 15 largest 9 industrialized nations in the world, the United 10 States of America ranks last in voter turn-out. 11 Now, the Benelux nations have 12 devised another way, Senator, of raising funds 13 or decreasing monies needed for this. Either 14 way, they have taxed people who don't go to the 15 polls. Now, I'm not ready to support that 16 measure, but I am opposed to any legislation 17 that would limit the number of hours that 18 American citizens have to vote. 19 So I regret, Senator, that I will 20 have to oppose this legislation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 22 any other Senator -- Senator Cook. 23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 24 Senator Larkin is absolutely correct. Ulster 25 County, if you look at a map, is totally 1128 1 surrounded by counties where the 12:00 to 9:00 2 hours apply, except for Orange County. It's the 3 only adjoining county where the hours are 4 different and, as he indicated, that was because 5 of some legislation that Senator Schermerhorn 6 had sponsored a number of years ago. 7 I think Senator Schermerhorn did 8 that with all good intention thinking that 9 indeed many of the concerns that people have 10 had, it would expand the hours and that by 11 expanding the hours you expand the turn-out. It 12 really isn't possible to document whether that's 13 true or not, because numbers of voters are 14 different. We don't have that many primaries, 15 so the consistency from one year to another is 16 not document... you can't document and, frankly, 17 they don't make a list as to what time people 18 show up at the polls. We don't know what time 19 they showed up. But the people who sit at the 20 polling places tell us that the number of voters 21 has not changed dramatically or appreciably 22 because we've changed the hours, and the reason 23 is that 12:00 to 9:00 really spans virtually any 24 combination of working hours that you could 25 think of. People work shifts from 9:00 to 5:00, 1129 1 3:00 to 12:00, they work -- you can almost 2 figure on looking at those hours from 12:00 to 3 9:00 and saying that everybody really has an 4 opportunity to vote some time in that period of 5 time. 6 Now, if there were a situation 7 where indeed we were going to perhaps close the 8 hours back to 7:00 and someone were working in 9 the City and they weren't able to get back in 10 time to vote, the kind of thing that might 11 happen, then I would say perhaps that's a 12 consequence. 13 But the point is that we're 14 talking about having four people sit at every 15 single polling place in that -- in that county 16 for an entire day, 6:00 o'clock in the morning 17 now until noon, and often nobody shows up - 18 literally nobody shows up to vote the entire day 19 and even more often nobody shows up between 6:00 20 o'clock and noon, and even in a Republican 21 primary as one who has participated in a few of 22 those myself, I can tell you that the voter par 23 ticipation is meager at best and, Senator, I 24 agree, I wish the voter participation were more, 25 but the fact is that the longer hours haven't 1130 1 seemed to make that happen, that there's no 2 indication that the percentage of people who are 3 voting in primaries is any greater now with the 4 longer hours than it was at the time when we had 5 the statewide hours of 12:00 to 9:00, and I 6 think that that is the logical reason why the 7 localities are saying first, the cost of having 8 to pay the extra time for people to sit at the 9 polling places is a financial burden upon the 10 towns because every single polling place has to 11 be open and, secondly, frankly, it's getting 12 difficult in some cases to find people to sit at 13 polling places because they don't want to sit 14 there from 6:00 o'clock in the morning until 15 9:00 o'clock at night, and it would be much 16 easier to man or woman the polling places if we 17 had more reasonable hours. 18 So this bill is not a punitive 19 measure. It's a measure saying, Look, we tried 20 a good idea. The good idea didn't seem to turn 21 out. We'd like to go back and be like everybody 22 else in the state. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 24 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing 25 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 1131 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 7 the results when tabulated. 8 Senator Gold, to explain his 9 vote. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 11 President. I guess the more we think things 12 change, the more they stay the same, and I think 13 that Senator Larkin may have wanted to follow my 14 suggestion, and I saw a lot of nodding on that 15 side and obviously if a Democrat's suggestion 16 might be able to do something to make things 17 easier it's going to be ignored. 18 Having said that, I read 19 something interesting the last few days, that 20 the so-called Republican landslide in '94 was 21 38,000 votes nationally, and if 19,000 people 22 had had a little more sense, we wouldn't have to 23 put up with the Newt Gingriches of the world. 24 So you never know what's going to happen with 25 small amounts of votes. 1132 1 Senator Larkin, as far as I'm 2 concerned, there is a burden of proof here. 3 This legislation is caused by the fact that a 4 local Senator came to us and asked us to change 5 it and now -- and at that point in time we could 6 understand it. We can understand anybody who 7 says, Open up the polls and let my people have 8 more access. We find it a little more difficult 9 when you say close the polls, and that creates a 10 certain burden. 11 You have a right, Senator, to 12 handle your legislation the way you want. On a 13 personal basis, you know that I respect you. 14 I'm going to vote no. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 17 Senator Oppenheimer to explain 18 her vote. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'm going 20 to be voting yes. 21 I guess as an ex-mayor I 22 appreciate the point that spending $20,000 for 23 three votes just doesn't make financial sense. 24 Also considering that almost every county has 25 the hours that you're referring to and it has 1133 1 worked well in those counties, I think we have 2 to apply -- I'm normally one who speaks very 3 much for voter participation being an ex-League 4 of Women Voters president, but you have to 5 balance things. 6 You have to look at both sides 7 and, in this case, and it's a primary, not the 8 general, it just seems it make great sense. I 9 am as concerned as Senator Lachman about the 10 lack of voter participation in our nation. It 11 is horrendous; it's embarrassing and I would 12 like to see us address that issue. 13 There are techniques, different 14 strategies, such as opening polls on week ends. 15 There are a variety of things that we can look 16 at, and I think we ought to be looking at them, 17 but on this issue, I will be voting yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the 20 affirmative. 21 Senator Paterson, to explain his 22 vote. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 24 I'd like to explain my vote and to further 25 explain Senator Gold's vote. 1134 1 Senator Larkin said that there 2 were three people who voted in a Conservative 3 Party primary last year and I wasn't quite sure 4 if that was in the whole Ulster County, perhaps 5 it was, between noon and 6:00 a.m. 6 Senator Cook said that you can't 7 document that information, and I think that it's 8 unfortunate that we would come to this 9 conclusion when we actually can. We're not 10 necessarily interested in how many people are 11 voting from year to year. We're interested in 12 what is the percentage of the vote for the 13 entire day. The reason it's so important is 14 because this is a very significant right in this 15 country, one that our ancestors fought for, and 16 one that makes this country such -- the 17 democracy that it is. 18 In areas where voting is 19 concerned, because it has a national interest, 20 because people are so upset that we don't have 21 greater participation, we really to have hold 22 the issue to a higher standard and, as Senator 23 Gold said, if someone wanted to expand the time 24 that the polls are open, we'd be a lot more 25 agreeable than if they prevent it. 1135 1 Now, on an issue such as sales 2 tax or things that different counties do, we 3 always want to follow the lead of the local 4 government, but on issues that involve elections 5 which is really something that's constitutional, 6 a right that extends all over the land, we would 7 like to just have a little bit of information 8 such that we understand that we're actually 9 allowing this to take place for a good reason. 10 Many times the Justice Department 11 has had to come into New York State and to hold 12 up and disqualify elections because certain 13 procedures were not followed. If a few people 14 are voting between the hours of noon -- of 6:00 15 a.m. and noon and it's just not a convenient 16 time for voters, we certainly being sacrifice 17 that to save money, but if it's just put in a 18 way that we can understand it, it makes it that 19 much easier. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: How are 21 you are voting, Senator Paterson? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: I thought 23 while I was talking I would come to a 24 conclusion. 25 I'll vote no, Mr. President. 1136 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson will be recorded in the negative. 3 Announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 173 are Senators 6 Connor, Gold, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, 7 Onorato, Paterson, Sampson, Seabrook and 8 Stachowski; also Senator Gentile. Ayes 47, nays 9 11. Also Senator Mendez. Ayes 46, nays 12. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Secretary will continue to read 13 the controversial calendar. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 207, substituted earlier today, by member of the 16 Assembly Magee, Assembly Print 2462, an act in 17 relation to legalizing and validating certain 18 acts and proceedings. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 20 local fiscal impact note at the desk. Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 25 roll. 1137 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 9 one standing committee report, Senator, we'd 10 like to read at this time if it's O.K. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: We could do it. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 13 the reports of standing committees, ask the 14 Secretary to read the report of the Higher 15 Education Committee. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle, 17 from the Committee on Higher Education, reports 18 the following bills: 19 Senate Print 1289, by Senator 20 Saland, an act to amend the Education Law; 21 1358, by Senator LaValle, an act 22 to amend the Education Law; 23 2014, by Senator Rath, an act to 24 amend the Education Law; 25 2597, by Senator LaValle, an act 1138 1 to amend the Education Law; and 2 2598, by Senator LaValle, an act 3 to amend the Education Law. 4 All bills ordered direct for 5 third reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 7 objection, all bills ordered directly to third 8 reading. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Mr. 11 President. There will be an immediate meeting 12 of the Majority -- conference of the Majority in 13 the Majority Conference Room, and there being no 14 further business, I move we adjourn until 15 Monday, March 3rd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 16 days being legislative days. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Be an 18 immediate meeting of the Majority Conference, 19 immediate meeting of the Majority Conference in 20 the Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 21 Without objection, the Senate 22 stands adjourned until Monday, March 3rd, 3:00 23 p.m. 24 (Whereupon at 12:30 p.m., the 25 Senate adjourned. )