Tuesday, March 25, 1997

1978 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 March 25, 1997 10 3:05 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1979 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would you please rise and join 4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, March 24th. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 23rd, 16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 17 adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully, 1980 1 from the Committee on Water Resources 2 Commissions, offers up the following bills: 3 Senate Print 1465-A, by Senator 4 Tully, an act to amend the Environmental 5 Conservation Law; 6 2733, by Senator Cook, an act to 7 amend the Soil and Water Conservation Districts 8 Law. 9 Senator Alesi, from the Committee 10 on Consumer Protection, offers up the following 11 bills: 12 Senate 2951, by Senator Seward, 13 an act to amend the General Business Law, in 14 relation to willfully installing a fire 15 protection system; 16 3525, by Senator Alesi, an act to 17 amend the General Business Law, in relation to 18 telephone services. 19 Senator Lack, from the Committee 20 on Judiciary, offers up the following bills: 21 Senate Print 3001, by Senator 22 Lack, concurrent resolution of the Senate and 23 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Article VI 24 of the Constitution; 25 3304, by Senator Leibell, 1981 1 concurrent resolution of the Senate and 2 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Section 1 3 Article VI of the Constitution; 4 3444, by Senator Saland, an act 5 to amend the Domestic Relations Law, the Public 6 Health Law and others, in relation to fees 7 charged for the issuance of a marriage license; 8 Senator Padavan, from the 9 Committee on Cities, offers up the following 10 bills: 11 Senate Print 3187, by Senator 12 Seward, an act authorizing and directing the 13 city of Ithaca to establish a photo radar 14 monitoring demonstration. 15 Senator Spano, from the Committee 16 on Labor, offers up the following bills: 17 Senate Print 1384-A, by Senator 18 Spano, an act to amend the Labor Law and the 19 Public Health Law; 20 1560, by Senator Maltese, an act 21 amend the Labor Law, in relation to certain 22 employment of minors under 16 years of age; 23 3483, by Senator Spano, an act to 24 amend the Labor Law, in relation to liability 25 for non-payment of wages in the apparel 1982 1 industry. 2 Senator Stafford, from the 3 Committee on Finance, offers up the following 4 bills: 5 Senate Print 2-A, by Senator 6 Bruno, an act to amend the Tax Law and the 7 Public Services Law, in relation to a reduction 8 in the rate of tax; 9 701-A, Budget Bill, an act making 10 appropriation for the legal requirements of the 11 state debt service; 12 2496, by Senator Johnson, an act 13 to amend the State Finance Law and the Vehicle 14 and Traffic Law; 15 3083, by Senator Padavan, an act 16 to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to 17 contracts; 18 3857, by the Committee on Rules, 19 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law; 20 3865, by the Committee on Rules, 21 an act to amend the State Finance Law; 22 3867, by the Committee on Rules, 23 an act to amend the State Finance Law. 24 Senator Volker, from the 25 Committee on Codes, offers up the following 1983 1 bills: 2 Senate Print 212-A, by Senator 3 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Penal Law, in 4 relation to registration of firearms; 5 341, by Senator Skelos, an act to 6 amend the Penal Law, in relation to monetary 7 standards; 8 589, by Senator Skelos, an act to 9 amend the Penal Law and the Criminal Procedure 10 Law; 11 1143, by Senator Saland, an act 12 to amend the Penal Law; 13 1467, by Senator Volker, an act 14 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the Family 15 Court Act and the Penal Law; 16 1556, by Senator Leibell, an act 17 to amend the Penal Law, the County Law and the 18 Executive Law; 19 1593, by Senator Johnson, an act 20 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to including 21 court officer; 22 1957, by Senator Holland, an act 23 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to fixing 24 sentences; 25 1977, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 1984 1 amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal 2 possession of a weapon in the third degree; 3 2643, by Senator Skelos, an act 4 to amend the Penal Law; 5 3070, by Senator Padavan, an act 6 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 7 possession of gambling devices; 8 3407, by Senator Volker, an act 9 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation 10 to the authority of police officers; 11 3456, by Senator Volker, an act 12 to enact the Criminal Procedure Law Reformed Act 13 of 1997. 14 Senator Rath, from the Committee 15 on Local Governments, offers up the following 16 bills: 17 Senate Print 2670, by Senator 18 LaValle, an act to amend the Town Law, in 19 relation to fire districts; 20 2843, by Senator Tully, an act to 21 amend the Nassau Civil Divisions Act; 22 3133-A, by Senator Lack, an act 23 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in relation 24 to duties of the director of real property tax 25 services; 1985 1 3139, by Senator LaValle, an act 2 to amend the Town Law; 3 3140, by Senator LaValle, an act 4 to amend the Town Law; 5 3267, by Senator Seward, an act 6 to amend the Town Law, in relation to non 7 resident volunteer firefighters; 8 3754, by Senator Rath, an act to 9 amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992; 10 3864, by Senator Present, an act 11 to amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992. 12 Senator Levy, from the Committee 13 on Transportation, offers up the following 14 bills: 15 Senate Print 99, by Senator Levy, 16 an act in relation to authorizing a review of 17 current drug impaired driving education; 18 272, by Senator Volker, an act to 19 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 20 475-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an 21 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 22 748, by Senator Present, an act 23 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 24 relation to refunds of registration fees; 25 917, by Senator Levy, an act to 1986 1 amend the Public Authorities Law; 2 1344, by Senator Levy, an act to 3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 4 to a requirement to mandate full resident 5 addresses; 6 2601, by Senator Velella, an act 7 to amend the Public Authorities Law; 8 3421, by Senator Spano, an act to 9 amend the Public Authorities Law; 10 3553, by Senator Levy, an act to 11 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 12 3863, by the Committee on Rules, 13 an act to amend Chapter 329 of the Laws of 1991; 14 3866, by the Committee on Rules, 15 an act to amend the Transportation Law. 16 Senator Marcellino, from the 17 Committee on Environmental Conservation, offers 18 up the following bills: 19 Senate Print 933, by Senator 20 Maziarz, an act to amend the Environmental 21 Conservation Law; 22 3103, by Senator LaValle, an act 23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law; 24 3679, by Senator Marcellino, an 25 act to amend Chapter 471 of the Laws of 1996; 1987 1 2921, with amendments, by Senator 2 Marchi, an act to amend Chapter 395 of the Laws 3 of 1978; 4 3834, by Senator Marcellino, an 5 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law. 6 All bills directly for third 7 reading. 8 THE PRESIDENT: All bills direct 9 to third reading. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack, 12 from the Committee on Judiciary, offers up the 13 following nominations: As judge of the New York 14 State Court of Claims, Dora L. Irizarry, of New 15 York County. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 17 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam 18 President. 19 I rise to move the nomination of 20 Dora L. Irizarry as a judge of the New York 21 State Court of Claims. Judge Irizarry appeared 22 before the Committee this morning, was 23 unanimously moved to the floor. Prior to that, 24 she had been investigated by members of my staff 25 and found to be eminently satisfactory and was 1988 1 sent before the entire Committee. 2 Judge Irizarry was appointed to 3 the Criminal Court of the city of New York by 4 Mayor Giuliani in 19... in December 1995. She 5 currently sits in New York County Criminal 6 Court. 7 Prior to her appointment to the 8 bench, she was a prosecutor for 16 years, 9 beginning in 1979 when she became an assistant 10 district attorney in the Appeals Bureau of the 11 Bronx District Attorney's office. 12 In 1981, Judge Irizarry was 13 assigned to the office of the New York City 14 Special Narcotics Prosecutor and was a 15 prosecutor for the remaining time until she 16 became a judge by appointment of Mayor 17 Giuliani. 18 She attended the Bronx High 19 School of Science, graduated from Yale 20 University with honors and distinction in 21 political sociology and then from Columbia 22 University School of Law. 23 The Governor is certainly to be 24 congratulated on an outstanding appointment to 25 the New York State Court of Claims and, Madam 1989 1 President, I would respectfully move the 2 nomination and ask for you to congratulate Judge 3 Irizarry as well as her son Justin who is 4 accompanying her in our west -- east gallery. 5 Thank you. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Do any other 7 members wish to speak on the nomination? 8 (There was no response.) 9 The question is on the 10 confirmation of Dora L. Irizarry as judge of the 11 New York State Court of Claims. All in favor 12 please signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye".) 14 Opposed, nay. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Dora L. Irizarry is hereby 17 confirmed as judge of the New York State Court 18 of Claims. 19 (Applause) 20 In the gallery are the judge's 21 son, Justin Irizarry, several friends of the 22 judge's. We welcome you all. 23 The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: As a justice of 25 the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial 1990 1 District, Burton S. Joseph, of Nassau County. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 3 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam 4 President. 5 I rise to move the nomination of 6 Burton S. Joseph of Nassau County as a justice 7 of the New York State Supreme Court. Judge 8 Joseph appeared before the Committee this 9 morning, was unanimously endorsed and sent to 10 the floor for consideration this afternoon, and 11 I would proudly yield to Senator Hannon for 12 purposes of a second. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon. 14 SENATOR HANNON: Madam President, 15 I am delighted to be able to move the nomination 16 of Burton S. Joseph to be a justice of the 17 Supreme Court. 18 Judge Joseph currently serves on 19 the Nassau County Family Court where he has been 20 since 1984. Prior to that, he had been a 21 District Court judge, 1977 to 1984, and before 22 that he had been senior deputy county attorney 23 in the county attorney's office in Nassau 24 County, where I had the distinct pleasure of 25 serving with him for three years and really 1991 1 getting tutored -- one of the people who tutored 2 me in the law. So you're partially responsible, 3 Judge. 4 I must say that having had a 5 chance to watch him on the bench over the years, 6 that he will make a distinct positive addition 7 to the Supreme Court bench. He has the 8 intelligence and wisdom that are needed and more 9 importantly, he has the patience. 10 I have seen him take the time 11 with litigants in a landlord/tenant dispute or 12 the people involved in a complicated Family 13 Court matter, to take the time, to cut through 14 the law that was applicable so that they would 15 understand what they were facing. They would 16 understand the implications of what was being 17 proposed, I think leading to a far better 18 understanding and sense of justice than would 19 otherwise be present. 20 I think that we are lucky that he 21 is going to be serving on this bench and, 22 therefore, I very proudly move his nomination. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 24 Does anyone else wish to speak on 25 the nomination? 1992 1 (There was no response.) 2 The question is on the 3 confirmation of Burton S. Joseph as justice of 4 the Supreme Court for the Tenth Judicial 5 District. All in favor please signify by saying 6 aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Burton S. Joseph is hereby 11 confirmed as justice of the Supreme Court for 12 the Tenth Judicial District, and in the gallery 13 is the judge's wife Rene and several guests. 14 Congratulations. 15 (Applause) 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: As a justice of 18 the Supreme Court for the Second Judicial 19 District, Robert S. Kreindler, of Kings County. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 21 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam 22 President. 23 I rise once again to move the 24 nomination of Robert S. Kreindler as a justice 25 of the Supreme Court to serve in the Second 1993 1 Judicial District in Brooklyn. 2 Judge Kreindler began his career 3 as a judge of the New York City Civil Court by 4 appointment of Mayor Lindsay to an interim term 5 in September 1966. Subsequently, he was 6 appointed to a full ten-year term as a judge of 7 the Criminal Court of the city of New York and 8 has thereafter been reappointed twice to 9 ten-year terms in December of 1978 and in 10 December 1988. 11 For 20 years, Judge Kreindler has 12 been serving as an acting New York State Supreme 13 Court justice in Kings County. For my 14 colleagues out of the City, that's pursuant to 15 the special designation in the Constitution 16 allowing for such appointments and one of the 17 subjects of the restructuring bill which we have 18 received from OCA and which shall be in further 19 consideration in years to come. That is by 20 designation of the presiding justices of the 21 Appellate Divisions in the First and Second 22 Department. In fact, although not a Supreme 23 Court justice, Judge Kreindler has been serving 24 longer in the criminal term of the Supreme Court 25 than any justice in Brooklyn, elected or 1994 1 appointed. 2 He attended Brooklyn College and 3 Brooklyn Law School, received his L.L.B. in June 4 of 1950. He has also served in the United 5 States Attorney's office for approximately five 6 years. He appeared before the Committee this 7 morning, was unanimously endorsed by the members 8 of the Committee and sent to the floor for 9 consideration this afternoon. 10 Mr. President, I would most 11 respectfully congratulate the Governor on his 12 appointment and move his confirmation at this 13 time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 15 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 16 nomination? 17 (There was no response.) 18 Hearing none, the question is on 19 the nomination of Robert S. Kreindler of Kings 20 County to become a justice of the Supreme 21 Court. All those in favor signify by saying 22 aye. 23 (Response of "Aye".) 24 Opposed, nay. 25 (There was no response.) 1995 1 The justice is unanimously 2 confirmed. 3 We're very, very pleased to have 4 Judge Kreindler in the gallery with us, along 5 with his wife Vivian. Congratulations. Good 6 luck. 7 (Applause) 8 Senator Tully. 9 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 I regret that I was outside the 12 chamber at the time the nomination of Judge 13 Burton Joseph came before us and he was 14 confirmed. Had I been in the chamber, I would 15 have indicated something along the lines of what 16 I indicated at the meeting of the Judiciary 17 Committee today, and that's that I've known 18 Judge Joseph for over 30 years and tried cases 19 against him over 30 years ago and Senator Lack 20 asked at the Judiciary Committee meeting who won 21 when we tried those cases, and I guess we both 22 won because we each learned a little something 23 from each other, but I learned one thing, that 24 Burt Joseph is a gentleman. He's a fine 25 attorney. He's extremely well qualified, and I 1996 1 think the citizens of the Tenth Judicial 2 District will be well served and I wish those 3 remarks to go on the record. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 6 you, Senator Tully. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 The Chair recognizes Senator 9 Larkin. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 11 wish to call my bill, Print Number 2309, 12 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 13 desk. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 17 Larkin, Senate Print 2309, an act to amend the 18 General Municipal Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Larkin. 21 SENATOR LARKIN: I now move to 22 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 23 passed. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 1997 1 bill passed the house. 2 The Secretary will call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll on 5 reconsideration.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Larkin. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, I 10 now offer the following amendments. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 amendments are received and adopted. 13 Senator Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 15 on behalf of Senator Johnson, please place a 16 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 307. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 18 Number 207 is starred at the request of the 19 sponsor. 20 Senator Holland. 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 22 for Senator Goodman, on page 9, I offer the 23 following amendments to Calendar Number 164, 24 Senate Print Number 423, and ask that the said 25 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 1998 1 Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 amendments to Calendar Number 164 are received 4 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 5 the Third Reading Calendar. 6 Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of 8 Senator Lack, on page 12, I offer the follow 9 amendments to Calendar Number 259, Senate Print 10 Number 2918, and ask that the said bill retain 11 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 amendments to Calendar Number 259 are received 14 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 15 the Third Reading Calendar. 16 Senator Holland. 17 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of 18 Senator Lack again, on page 12, I after the 19 following amendments to Calendar Number 260, 20 Senate Print Number 2997, and I ask that the 21 said bill retain its place on the Third Reading 22 Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 amendments are received and adopted. The bill 25 will retain its place on the Third Reading 1999 1 Calendar. 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: On behalf of 4 Senator Present, on page 16, I offer the 5 following amendments to Calendar Number 322, 6 Senate Print Number 749, and I ask that the said 7 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 8 Calendar. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 amendments to Calendar Number 322 are received 11 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 12 the Third Reading Calendar. 13 Senator Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Finally, on 15 behalf of Senator Skelos, on page 19, I offer 16 the following amendments to Calendar Number 354, 17 Senate Print Number 2484, and ask that the said 18 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 19 Calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 amendments to Calendar Number 354 are received 22 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 23 the Third Reading Calendar. 24 Senator Skelos. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2000 1 at this time may we please adopt the Resolution 2 Calendar in its entirety. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 motion is to accept the Resolution Calendar 5 which is on the desks of all of the members. 6 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The Resolution Calendar is 11 adopted. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 Resolution J-00729, by Senator Bruno, he wishes 15 to make that available for co-sponsorship to any 16 member who so indicates to the desk. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 18 several members who would like to be on Calendar 19 -- Resolution Number 729? 20 Senator Skelos, shall we put 21 everybody on it, reverse the process and keep 22 those - 23 SENATOR SKELOS: I think it would 24 be if the person wants to go on -- the Senator 25 wishes to sponsor the resolution, they should 2001 1 indicate to the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 3 Members will indicate to the desk that they want 4 to be on. 5 Senator Skelos, that brings us to 6 the reading of the calendar. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. Could we 8 have the reading of the non-controversial 9 calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the non-controversial 12 calendar. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 16 crime of false personation. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 20 Leader. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A, 23 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 24 relation to authorizing infrastructure exemption 25 in certain instances. 2002 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 4 Leader. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 114, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 98, an act 7 to amend the Domestic Relations Law and the 8 Family Court Act, in relation to the granting of 9 custody of a minor. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 119, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 817, an act 22 to amend the Family Court Act, in relation to 23 extensions of child placement. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 2003 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 120, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 1483, an act 11 to amend the Social Services Law, in relation to 12 requiring an investigation of all reports of 13 child abuse. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 254, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly 2004 1 Print 1836, an act establishing the chronic care 2 management demonstration program. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 257, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 2581-A, an 15 act to amend the Real Property Law, in relation 16 to designation of Secretary of State. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 18 the day. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside for the day. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 288, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1918, an 23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 24 increasing the penalties for repeat convictions. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2005 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 304, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2577, an 13 act to ratify, legalize and validate certain 14 acts and proceedings of the Board of Education 15 of the Little Falls City School District. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 17 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2006 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an 4 act to amend the Social Services Law and the 5 Education Law, in relation to protection of 6 pupils. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480, 12 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 13 relation to the transportation of certain 14 persons. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 16 the day. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 330, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1440, an 21 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 22 political committees. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2007 1 act shall take effect on the first day of 2 January. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an 11 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 12 cancellation of registration. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an 22 act to amend the Election Law and the State 23 Finance Law, in relation to requiring 24 proposition authorizing the creation of a state 25 debt. 2008 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 350, by member of the Assembly Schimminger, 6 Assembly Print 1666, an act to amend the Local 7 Finance Law, in relation to the sale of bonds 8 and notes for the city of Buffalo. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 10 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 11 will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 351, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1295, an 22 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 23 relation to creating the town of Southampton 24 Industrial Development Agency. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 2009 1 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results when tabulated. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1, 11 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 352, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1379, an 16 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to the 17 exclusion of the Pyramid Mall water district. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 19 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 20 will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2010 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 355, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2485, an 6 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 7 Nassau to accept an application. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1, 16 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Skelos, that completes 20 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: May we have the 22 controversial reading of the calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will read the controversial calendar, 25 beginning on page 6, Calendar Number 12, by 2011 1 Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 3 it seems like this is - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Volker, can we read the bill and get the title 6 -- get the bill before the house before we get 7 into a debate on it. 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 12, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 270-B, an 11 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to crime 12 of false personation. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Volker, an explanation has been asked for by 15 Senator Montgomery. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 17 this is a bill that is designed to plug a hole 18 in the law that has come up over a series of 19 time. The bill came from some law enforcement 20 organizations in New York City and Long Island. 21 The issue involves the fact that 22 there has been developed what is known as a hole 23 in the law of criminal impersonation. It is a 24 crime right now and it's a misdemeanor to 25 impersonate a police officer or impersonate a 2012 1 public official, whatever, and it's punishable 2 by -- as a Class A misdemeanor in certain cases 3 and can be even more severe, but what has 4 happened is that, where a person provides false 5 information and false -- and falsely gives a 6 false name or whatever, there is no -- there is 7 no crime for that, even though if that person 8 impersonated a police officer or a person -- a 9 public official, it would be a crime. 10 What this bill says is that that 11 could be a crime known as criminal personation 12 and because of the fact that they are seeking to 13 deceive law enforcement officers. Some people 14 have said, Well, you don't have to make a 15 response and, therefore, this is wrong. The 16 problem is that's true. You don't have to make 17 a response, but when you lie and give someone 18 else's name and use someone else's name or give 19 false information, when you think about it, in a 20 -- in connection with a criminal investigation, 21 there should be some way to penalize these 22 people, and that's where the bill comes from. 23 It is called a crime of personation -- false 24 personation, which is a misdemeanor. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2013 1 Montgomery. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 3 President. I would ask if the sponsor would 4 yield to a question. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 sponsor yields. 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 9 Volker, my records show that we voted on this 10 and my recollection is that we voted on this 11 before. Is there anything different? Did you 12 do anything different with this bill? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Not basically 14 different. It -- the -- it's, I believe, 15 basically the same bill as last year, which I do 16 believe that you voted against. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Montgomery. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 20 President, I just want to remind my colleagues 21 that there were three votes in opposition to 22 this legislation. I believe the issue certainly 23 that I raised when I debated the last time and 24 my sentiments remain that the bill, while it 25 certainly is well intended and I think it does 2014 1 carry the language here that it says "after 2 being informed of the consequences of such act", 3 but despite that safeguard in the bill, the 4 probability that some people, especially young 5 people, might be particularly prone to being 6 affected by this legislation without really 7 understanding the full consequence of having a 8 Class A misdemeanor on their record, I'm going 9 to vote against this legislation again. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 11 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 12 (There was no response.) 13 Hearing none, the Secretary will 14 read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the first day of 17 January. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 22 the results when tabulated. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 24 the negative on Calendar Number 12, Senator 25 Leichter and Montgomery. Ayes 52, nays 2. 2015 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 The Secretary will continue to 4 read the controversial calendar. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 61, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 477-A, 7 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 8 relation to authorizing an infrastructure 9 exemption in certain instances. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number 13 61 has been requested by the Acting Minority 14 Leader, Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. This 16 was a bill that passed 58 to zero last year and 17 it's a bill that did not go through the 18 Assembly. This year they wanted me to eliminate 19 the legislative intent which basically didn't 20 add much and Assemblyman Schimminger indicated 21 that he thought then he could move the bill this 22 year, but basically it's a bill that would give 23 the localities an option to exempt 24 infrastructure improvements by a residential 25 home builder until such time as a certificate of 2016 1 occupancy is granted by the town or the village 2 in order to occupy the premises and it applies 3 to -- it gives the local option to all cities 4 other than cities over a million in the state of 5 New York, namely New York City. 6 It's a local option, but the 7 reason for it is there's a very difficult new 8 home market in the Central New York area, and 9 I'm sure in other areas of the state, that there 10 are builders who have made these improvements to 11 the property and are holding these lots and 12 holding the homes that are partially built 13 without certificate of occupancies and paying 14 taxes for improvements which ultimately will be 15 dedicated to the village or the town anyway once 16 this house is actually occupied. 17 So it provides an exemption just 18 as if an individual was holding another type of 19 product and wouldn't have to pay sales tax until 20 they actually sold the product. This happens to 21 be a product which has not been sold yet and 22 we're trying to give the home builders a break 23 in view of the depressed market in Central New 24 York and other areas of the state. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2017 1 Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 if Senator DeFrancisco would yield to a 4 question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 11 recognize in this legislation that it creates an 12 option for the local governments and so, 13 therefore, that would be a decision that the 14 local government would make but why, in your 15 opinion, would the local government allow for a 16 tax shift from the developer to other entities 17 in a situation where even after the development 18 is completed, there are going to be certain 19 maintenances in which the local government is 20 going to have to pay sewage removal, different 21 types of public services to the entity that's 22 constructed and so what would be the reason to 23 create almost a zoning bonus and allow for the 24 developer not to have to pay any taxes when 25 probably other citizens in the -- in the area 2018 1 that's covered by the local government are going 2 to have to pick up those costs? 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's the 4 same as any other local option for an exemption, 5 whether it be a senior citizen exemption, a 6 veteran's exemption or an exemption for any 7 other reason that a government may have a local 8 option on and it's a question of whether some of 9 these businesses are going to be able to 10 continue doing business in view of the depressed 11 home building market. 12 Some towns may think this is a 13 good idea. They may feel that it's -- in the 14 long term, it's better to give a little at this 15 point so that these builders can sell these 16 homes in the long term and give this break 17 because ultimately there's going to be a much 18 more substantial amount of taxes that are going 19 to be collected from an occupied home and to 20 encourage builders to continue making the 21 improvements in the situation where they're not 22 selling houses right now. 23 If these don't -- if something 24 like this didn't happen, a locality may say, 25 well -- a builder may say to the locality, we're 2019 1 not going to make the improvements that are 2 ultimately going to be yours. We're going to 3 wait until such time as we actually have 4 everything sold and the municipality may say, 5 let's get the improvements done and when the 6 house is sold, we'll take over the improvements 7 and we'll raise the taxes at that time as an 8 occupied premise. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his 13 response. 14 On the bill, Mr. President, I was 15 impressed by Senator DeFrancisco's assertion 16 that with the market as it stands right now, 17 this probably would be a good stimulant, but I 18 would like to point out that the New York 19 Conference of Mayors and the School Boards 20 Association oppose it. 21 In some respects, we have to look 22 at whether or not the market really can -- will 23 really afford this kind of expansion when we 24 think about the fact that this will certainly 25 create opportunities for developers, where had 2020 1 they been taxed, they might not be as frugal in 2 their attempt to develop, we certainly can 3 understand the need at any point, whether it's 4 senior citizen prescription discounts or whether 5 it's legislation designed to energize 6 development in a particular area, that we as a 7 government would want to be of assistance, but 8 the question is whether or not the expansion of 9 the market, in this case, would actually be what 10 would be the most suggested thing to do in these 11 situations. 12 It's really a very close call. 13 The bill has a great deal of merit, but I wanted 14 to raise those concerns. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 16 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 17 (There was no response.) 18 Hearing none, the Secretary will 19 read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1, 2021 1 Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 308, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2726, an 6 act to amend the Social Service Law and the 7 Education Law. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 308 11 has been requested by Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 Mr. President, this bill would 15 create statutorily a means for the reporting and 16 investigation of allegations of child abuse or 17 child sexual abuse in a school setting. 18 Currently, the law is totally 19 void of any procedure or standardized process to 20 deal with this issue. Certainly there have been 21 enough reports from various areas of the state 22 of these situations occurring in school settings 23 with no coordinated response. 24 Now, we place our children in 25 school settings with the understanding that 2022 1 there is an element of security and trust 2 associated with being in those settings and my 3 assumption is that that is why, when this bill 4 was considered last year, it passed 59 to 5 nothing. 6 What we do here is create that 7 mechanism, requires school personnel, school 8 building superintendents to respond to these 9 allegations, to make sure that they're handled 10 appropriately and turned over to law enforcement 11 for investigation and what it does particularly 12 is to make void as against public policy the 13 idea of the so-called silent resignation. And 14 what is a silent resignation? 15 What that is is, when there is an 16 incident that occurs involving abuse or sexual 17 abuse, the offending person is permitted to 18 resign in lieu of any procedure being brought, 19 whether it's civil or criminal, and that person 20 can then go on to another jurisdiction where he 21 or she may commit the very same acts that led to 22 the resignation in the first place. No 23 consequences, no follow up, no trail. 24 This bill is an effort to deal 25 with that problem. This bill is one of the 2023 1 focuses of the Children and Families committee 2 this year and this bill is a bill which affords 3 protection to our children and I would assume 4 would be embraced by everybody in the process 5 for basically endeavoring to keep the 6 educational institutions, places, as I said 7 earlier, that are intended to be safe and 8 protective of our children and not places where 9 they can be abused with little or no consequence 10 or little or no ability for any kind of 11 effective response. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. President. 16 If Senator Saland would yield for 17 a question. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator 20 Paterson? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I was 2024 1 especially impressed in 1996 with your remarks 2 concerning the statewide legislation that we 3 passed concerning domestic violence and some of 4 your admonitions to this body about the false 5 accusations and often -- and I think it was you 6 that pointed it out -- the fact that the 7 accusation of child abuse is made almost 8 regularly in custody battles and so, therefore, 9 I would pretty much assume that in offering this 10 piece of legislation, that your concerns were 11 extended such that you would have some idea of 12 how to protect an individual who is just simply 13 accused and then goes on hopefully for a career 14 in education and is not an abuser of children or 15 an abuser of anyone but simply because of some 16 litigation, had the charge made against him to 17 enhance the opponent -- the opponent's 18 bargaining position during some sort of civil 19 action. 20 I was wondering if you would 21 share with us how you feel a person who would be 22 falsely accused in this way would still be 23 protected while at the same time you accomplish 24 the goal that you just stated that's in your 25 legislation? 2025 1 SENATOR SALAND: Let me see - 2 I'm glad that you asked that question and let me 3 see if I can respond to your satisfaction, and I 4 think the genesis of your question may well come 5 from the NYSUT memo in opposition, and I think 6 there are two weaknesses in the underlying 7 premises for the NYSUT memo. 8 In the first instance, they refer 9 to the Prealta case. Now, the Prealta case, as 10 you're aware, basically says that where you have 11 an employer request, the fact that the standard 12 of mere credible evidence is what is used for 13 the reports that are submitted to the registry 14 and where the basis of whether they were founded 15 or unfounded is not good enough and the court 16 said in that particular case that the standard 17 has to be a preponderance of the evidence. 18 This does not change that because 19 what happens -- what would happen in this 20 situation would be, were there, in fact, an 21 employer request, a request by a school district 22 to access the central registry as is provided 23 under this bill, where there would be a hit, the 24 registry would be required to provide the 25 respondent the opportunity for an expungement 2026 1 hearing. The burden of proof would be on DSS to 2 show by a preponderance of the evidence that the 3 allegations in question were correct or true by 4 a preponderance of the evidence. So the 5 position raised by NYSUT is absolutely abjectly 6 erroneous and incorrect if the implication was 7 that somehow there was no protection there. 8 Secondly, the question of 9 unfounded reports, something we should -- as you 10 know, I had great concern about when we dealt 11 with the issue of Elisa, there would not be the 12 bill under this proposal to access those 13 fundamental reports. Only CPS workers under the 14 definitions provided under Elisa's Law can 15 access those reports, that an employer pursuant 16 to a screen seeks to access those reports, it's 17 just not doable. There cannot be employer 18 access or a response to an employer inquiry to 19 access those reports. 20 So I think, while the concerns 21 perhaps were legitimate, I think that had they 22 reflected a little longer and dug a little 23 deeper, they would have realized that there 24 really was no, in fact, foundation for them. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2027 1 Paterson, is that sufficient? 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 5 recognizes Senator Waldon. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 7 much, Mr. President. 8 Would the gentleman yield to a 9 question? 10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Senator yields, Senator Waldon. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. President. 16 Senator Saland, I was trying to 17 carefully listen to what you were saying in 18 response to Senator Paterson's inquiries, but I 19 did not recall your saying anything in regard to 20 the silent resignations. Was that accurate 21 because I was distracted for a moment? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Could I ask you 23 to speak up, Senator Waldon. 24 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize. 25 Did you make any statements in regard to silent 2028 1 resignations when you responded to the inquiry 2 of Senator Paterson? 3 SENATOR SALAND: No, I didn't 4 think that the focus of his questions dealt with 5 that issue. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Okay. I 7 apologize for not hearing the thrust of his 8 question fully. My concern of the moment is, is 9 there any data regarding these silent 10 resignations? Is there a number that you know 11 of or does anyone know of? 12 SENATOR SALAND: The information 13 is anecdotal at this point, but in all candor, 14 were there merely one of them, it would trouble 15 me vitally and the anecdotal information would 16 indicate that there's been more than one 17 instance in which this has occurred. 18 I certainly would not want to, in 19 effect, continue a practice that puts young 20 people at risk, keeping in mind that we've told 21 our children that there are certain authority 22 figures whom they're supposed to respond to, 23 respect and effectively obey and if somebody in 24 that position of trust, be it a teacher or a 25 school administrator, takes advantage of that 2029 1 position of trust to cause abuse or violence to 2 a child, the resolution should not be a silent 3 resignation. There should be the full impact of 4 the law brought to bear on that person. 5 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 6 continue, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Saland, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator continues to yield. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Saland, 14 I don't think that I nor any of our colleagues 15 would disagree with you in regard to, in fact, 16 anecdotal studies which evidence that people 17 have been using their positions of authority to 18 abuse our children. My concern is are there 19 really enough cases to warrant this action? 20 Now, what you said was very commendable, that if 21 there's one -- but one -- we should do something 22 about that -- and I would agree with that, but I 23 wanted to know, was there any real evidence? 24 I have one other concern, if I 25 may continue, and this is a question. Once - 2030 1 I'm sorry. 2 SENATOR SALAND: There have been 3 media accounts here in New York State of the 4 occurrence of this type of an event. 5 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 6 Mr. President? Would the gentleman continue to 7 yield? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Saland, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Senator continues to yield. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. President. 16 Senator Saland, do you have any 17 information -- never mind. I'll withdraw the 18 question. 19 Thank you very much, Senator 20 Saland. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 22 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 23 Senator Montgomery wishes to 24 speak. 25 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 2031 1 President. I would like to ask if Senator 2 Saland would yield to a question of 3 clarification. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Saland, do you yield to a question from Senator 6 Montgomery? 7 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 12 Saland, the legislation seems to allow for a 13 telephone call and/or a child's accusation to 14 trigger the process of reporting a case of child 15 abuse or mistreatment -- maltreatment. 16 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, 17 Senator. You said something about a telephone 18 call. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: A telephone 20 call and/or a child's reporting to someone in 21 the school that someone else has maltreated or 22 abused that child. I'm just looking at the 23 first page, line 15. 24 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, Mr. 25 President. Is there a question that's been 2032 1 posed for me? 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: My question 3 is does the legislation as it appears based on 4 what I read here, is this process triggered by a 5 simple telephone call from a parent or a person 6 and/or a child's reporting to someone in that 7 school? 8 SENATOR SALAND: The section to 9 which you refer is the section of the Social 10 Services Law that deals with the workings of the 11 central registry and if you read that section, 12 it basically talks about the receipt of a 13 telephone call and how the central registry 14 shall respond and what we've merely done here at 15 the conclusion of that paragraph is add language 16 to this already existing provision that says, 17 where you receive such a call -- where such call 18 is received by the central registry, the 19 department will notify the superintendent of 20 schools in which that child attends. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Based on the 22 telephone call to the registry by the -- by 23 someone or a child in the school that something 24 has occurred in the school? You're adding the 25 educational setting to that. 2033 1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, and there 2 is also a process that you may well be familiar 3 with in which a number of these things are 4 handled at a local level in which there are, as 5 you know, investigations. A number of these 6 situations are ones in which the calls are 7 received and in which no action is taken because 8 there's a question as to whether or not, in 9 fact, there is the requisite activities or 10 illegal acts that require the department to 11 respond. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Okay. Now, 13 Senator, if you will continue to yield, I just 14 want to - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Saland, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator continues to yield. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: The bill has 22 a number of people who are notified immediately 23 upon a -- upon a report of child abuse by a 24 person in the school setting, i.e. the 25 superintendent, the district attorney, the 2034 1 police chief, the sheriff or whomever, the Board 2 of Ed' and the child's parent and whomever else 3 and, at the same time, the person who is being 4 accused. 5 My question to you is -- and then 6 in -- at somewhere in here there's language that 7 says any breach of confidentiality is a Class A 8 misdemeanor for the person who is assumed, I 9 suppose, i.e. the superintendent, the principal 10 or wherever that breach takes place but, in 11 fact, there are a number of ways in which that 12 confidentiality can be breached, is it not, 13 based on this process, and I guess my question 14 is how do we protect a principal or a 15 superintendent or someone else from being 16 charged with a Class A misdemeanor for a breach 17 of confidentiality over which they have no 18 control, actually? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Well, the 20 building principal or building superintendent, 21 once they have done what's required of them in 22 this bill, whether it's to notify the parent, to 23 notify the school superintendent, whether it's 24 to notify the district attorney, they have done 25 what is required of them. Were they, in fact, 2035 1 to notify some person who is not provided for in 2 this particular proposal, then they would have 3 breached confidentiality. The law is clear as 4 to whom should be notified and if, in fact, one 5 of those entities then goes further, that is not 6 obviously something that was done by or was 7 intended to be done by a school principal or 8 whomever might have lodged the report on behalf 9 of the school district. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 11 I guess -- last question, Mr. -- last question, 12 if you would yield, Senator Saland. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator continues to yield. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: You 18 mentioned the expungement hearings and how they 19 work, and my question to you in relationship to 20 the central registry, do we have any idea how 21 many cases have actually been expunged that were 22 unfounded in the registry? 23 SENATOR SALAND: Well, as you 24 know, there -- I couldn't quantify the number of 25 cases in the central registry that were 2036 1 previously expunged but with the change that 2 occurred in the law when we did Elisa's Law, 3 expungement at this point in New York State's 4 life, so to speak, is something that's 5 historical. There is not a procedure for that. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: All right. 7 Thank you, Senator Saland. 8 Mr. President, briefly on the 9 bill. I think there are a lot of -- there's a 10 lot of merit in the intent of this legislation. 11 Certainly we want to protect children and we 12 want to, as quickly as possible, remove from any 13 school setting a person who is abusing children, 14 but I think the bill here leaves an opening for 15 a number of glitches along the way that could, 16 in fact, essentially destroy a person's career 17 in the area of whatever they're doing in the 18 school and if they're a school psychologist or a 19 teacher or whoever may be involved in such an 20 accusation and certainly if we are using the 21 central registry at all and if anyone's name is, 22 for whatever reason, inadvertently or not, 23 placed in that registry, as Senator Saland 24 admits and as our law now states, they will 25 basically -- could be in there for at least a 2037 1 good portion of what would be their career 2 life. 3 So I think the bill, as it is 4 written, without some specific safeguards to 5 protect people from becoming -- being one 6 accused of a crime of confidentiality, a 7 breaching of confidentiality, from the level of 8 the school right on down to the parent or from 9 having people who may have a very good and 10 legitimate argument or who may have absolutely 11 mistakenly been accused but nonetheless being 12 thrown into a process where they could have 13 their careers damaged for life, I would 14 certainly urge a vote in the negative on this 15 legislation and I would hope that Senator Saland 16 could, in fact, figure out ways in which we 17 could tighten this up so that we don't do the 18 unintended and, Mr. President, I have been to 19 expungement hearings when we were supposedly 20 able to do them and I can tell you in no 21 uncertain terms, those expungement hearings do 22 not result -- or did not result even when it was 23 possible they did not result in expungement and 24 very often people are in the registry and they 25 don't even know that they're in there. 2038 1 So I think there is a very good 2 and legitimate reason why NYSUT opposes this 3 legislation, and I'm going to vote in the 4 negative in support of that as well as other 5 issues, as I have raised. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 9 Senator Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 11 Saland would yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Saland, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think the 19 nature of the bill has somewhat been clarified 20 for me, but I'm not quite sure about some 21 aspects of it. I thank you and Senator 22 Montgomery for your discussion, and also Senator 23 Paterson. 24 I don't think anybody is raising 25 any issue or question of where there was a 2039 1 conviction of an employee of a school system and 2 certainly that information should be known to a 3 prospective employing school district. 4 I think the concern is where 5 there was an allegation of child abuse that's 6 been reported and is now in the central registry 7 -- and I want to focus on that -- and my 8 question is that records of alleged child abuse 9 in the registry that did not result in any 10 criminal action that are part of the record of 11 the registry will be made available to a 12 prospective employer, is that correct? 13 SENATOR SALAND: Let me see if I 14 understand your question. Are you saying where 15 there has not been -- what you will find in the 16 central registry are Article X cases which are 17 basically family offense/household type of 18 cases. You are asking me, I believe, where 19 there is an unfounded abuse allegation; is that 20 the thrust of your question? 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, where 22 there is -- an allegation is made that's in the 23 central registry where no criminal action was 24 taken. It was never referred to the D.A. or the 25 D.A. didn't take any action on it. Now, there 2040 1 could be a record of that allegation in the 2 central registry. Would that record be made 3 available to a prospective employing school 4 district? 5 SENATOR SALAND: There are two 6 parallel tracks here. One is fingerprinting 7 which goes to criminal records, and I believe 8 that's currently the practice in the city of New 9 York. When you become a school employee, you 10 are fingerprinted. School bus drivers are 11 fingerprinted. That deals with the criminal 12 side of the equation. 13 Where there has been a central 14 registry complaint or allegation and where it is 15 founded, there would be what I've termed a hit; 16 where it is unfounded, you would not have the 17 ability to access that information under this 18 bill because the allegation has to do with 19 something that occurred in a school setting and 20 not the traditional child abuse or child neglect 21 situation that you will find deposited or 22 reposited in the central registry. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, what 24 happens in the instance where there was an 25 allegation of abuse in a school setting that's 2041 1 sent to the central register and, as you and I 2 know, the central register is often months 3 behind, thousands of cases where no finding has 4 been made either one way or the other. What 5 happens under your bill? Now there's a 6 requirement. I want to find out about Steve 7 Saland. He's applied for a job in my school 8 district. There's this allegation on the record 9 that's neither been founded or not founded nor 10 indicated. It's not been acted upon. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Understand that 12 this is not the only way these complaints come 13 into the system. You're describing one way in 14 which a complaint could come into this system 15 and what this bill case says is if somebody 16 contacts the central registry to report an abuse 17 situation, the central registry shall 18 communicate with the local school district by 19 notifying the superintendent of schools and then 20 this procedure begins where the superintendent 21 would notify the parents, would notify the 22 district attorney and there would be an 23 appropriate law enforcement investigation. 24 Again, if there was an unfounded 25 report, we no longer get involved with issues of 2042 1 expungement per se in the registry. You are - 2 you would, however, where it is an employer 3 request as distinguished from a CPS request, 4 under the case which I referred to earlier, you 5 would have the ability and you would have to be 6 notified of that ability in the name of due 7 process to have an expungement hearing. It's an 8 employer search, in this case, by the school 9 district. It's not a search by some social 10 service agency or some law enforcement agency. 11 I don't want to confuse apples and oranges 12 here. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 14 Saland would continue to yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Saland, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator continues to yield. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, for 22 my clarification, let's take this case. A child 23 comes homes and says, "My teacher, Steve Saland, 24 hit me today." . The mother is very upset. The 25 next day goes to the principal and says, "My son 2043 1 claims he was hit by this teacher", and so on. 2 I assume that's a complaint as to which all of 3 the forms that are provided for in your bill 4 need to be made. 5 SENATOR SALAND: You have to look 6 at the definition of what constitutes child 7 abuse, and if you look at -- on page 2, 8 beginning at line 37, it defines -- and child 9 abuse means "physical injury to a child caused 10 by other than accidental means or creating 11 substantial risk of death or serious or 12 protracted disfigurement to a child or 13 protracted impairment of physical health or 14 protracted loss or impairment to the function of 15 any bodily organ of a child or any child's 16 sexual abuse." So the mere fact that a teacher 17 might be accused, whether it be Steve Saland or 18 somebody else who would be the teacher of having 19 slapped a child, there would be definitional 20 questions here as to whether or not that 21 constitutes child abuse. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Hitting 23 somebody creates a physical injury. I was 24 slapped by my teacher, Steve Saland. That's a 25 physical injury, isn't it? 2044 1 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not quite 2 sure that each and every contact with another 3 person's body results in a physical injury. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I see 5 Senator Marcellino and he was a teacher and 6 maybe he was engaged in -- or saw these things 7 happening, so -- or maybe he just doesn't think 8 he can hit hard enough, but I would imagine a 9 physical injury, as you define it -- I mean, you 10 define physical injury to a child caused by 11 other than accidental means. Then you go on and 12 you have other definitions like leaving a mark 13 or protracted impairment, and so on, but as I 14 read this, striking somebody is a physical 15 injury. I've never heard striking somebody not 16 being a physical injury. As you and I know, 17 under the law of assault, you know, whether 18 you're hit by Sonny Liston or whether you're hit 19 by Franz Leichter is some difference but it's a 20 physical injury. 21 SENATOR SALAND: I would beg to 22 differ with you. What you're saying is that any 23 time there's bodily contact between two people, 24 that that ipso facto constitutes physical 25 injury, and I think that certainly is a 2045 1 stretch. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 3 with all due respect - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter, are you asking Senator Saland to yield 6 to a question? 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator, 8 with all due respect - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Leichter, excuse me. Are you asking Senator 11 Saland to yield to a question? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I am, indeed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 14 Senator Saland, do you yield to a question? 15 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, with 20 all due respect, if I might point out, I would 21 certainly tighten up the definitions because I 22 think that any school principal, school official 23 would really be at risk, considering that you 24 provide penalties -- criminal penalties if you 25 fail to file a report. If he comes and says, 2046 1 Well, he just slapped a kid, I don't think it's 2 a physical injury. It really is not clear at 3 all, and I think that's -- with all due respect, 4 I think that's a definitional flaw, but if I 5 could just proceed and continue. 6 Suppose it's -- she brings the 7 child in and there's a bruise. Would you agree 8 that that's a physical injury? 9 SENATOR SALAND: I would say that 10 certainly would appear to be a physical injury. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. And 12 whereupon a report is written up, is that 13 right? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Correct. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: And I assume 16 the principal calls in the teacher, Steve 17 Saland, and says, "Did you hit this kid", and he 18 says, "Absolutely not. He was in a fight with 19 another kid and I didn't do it", but as I read 20 the bill, the principal is still required to 21 file a report, is he not? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Correct. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: And does that 24 the report not get sent to the central 25 registry? 2047 1 SENATOR SALAND: That report - 2 that report, I believe, winds up being submitted 3 to the district attorney. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 5 Saland, if you would be so good as to continue 6 to yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Saland, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator continues to yield. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: I understand 14 it goes to the district attorney but doesn't it 15 also get sent to the central registry, or are 16 you saying that it does not get sent to the 17 central registry if the district attorney takes 18 no action on it, because my understanding is it 19 must be sent to the central registry. 20 SENATOR SALAND: There's 21 notification to the district attorney. The 22 central registry, again at the beginning of the 23 bill, is a -- is a means by which -- a report 24 which they have received becomes an object for 25 investigation. The central registry is searched 2048 1 as part of a screening process to determine if, 2 in fact, somebody has a -- has previously 3 engaged in conduct for which a founded report 4 was made. Once the report of child abuse or 5 child sexual abuse is made, the people who are 6 in the loop are people whom are school 7 authorities, parents and the district attorney. 8 The state Department of Education 9 gets into this loop where, in fact, there is a 10 conviction because then there is a notation on a 11 teacher's certificate of a conviction. If, in 12 fact, there is an appeal or a dismissal, that 13 notation is expunged. That notation is 14 available to nobody but a party who is a 15 prospective employer of that person. It is not 16 available to the general public. It is not 17 available to anybody else. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 19 understand what you're -- what you're trying to 20 do, and I have no problem if all we're dealing 21 with is an instance where there has, indeed, 22 been a conviction, but I'm not sure that you 23 achieve that because I -- as I read this bill, I 24 think that the report has to be sent to the 25 central register, and I refer you to -- let me 2049 1 just see. I had it here a moment ago. It's on 2 page 4 where -- line 12, that the report of 3 abuse in our example where teacher Steve Saland 4 has allegedly slapped a kid. There's a bruise. 5 The teacher says "I didn't do it. He was a 6 fight" because you said, if you look at line 12, 7 "forward such a report to appropriate law 8 enforcement authorities." You don't just say to 9 the district attorney. I read that to mean that 10 you've got to send this to the central 11 registry. 12 SENATOR SALAND: The central 13 registry is not a law enforcement authority. 14 The central registry is a repository for 15 complaints which are ultimately, in some 16 instances, referred to law enforcement 17 authorities. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator 19 -- again, if you would yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Saland, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 23 President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Senator continues to yield. 2050 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: You're right. 2 I think that one can certainly say that the 3 central registry is not a law enforcement body 4 as such but you're giving them certain functions 5 and duties in relation to keeping records so 6 that it would be so easy, frankly, to clarify 7 this -- and I think both Senator Montgomery and 8 Senator Paterson had the same concern and maybe 9 the NYSUT would not have an objection if it was 10 clear that the only allegations or the only 11 record that is kept by the central registry is 12 if there has been, in fact, a conviction. I 13 think at that point - 14 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me. I'm 15 sorry. Let me let you continue and I'll 16 respond. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, please go 18 ahead. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Where the 20 conviction occurs, the repository for that 21 information is not the central registry. It's 22 the state Education Department and there would 23 be a notation that would go with the teacher's 24 certification, again confidential, available 25 only to someone who's doing an employment search 2051 1 with respect to that particular person. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Again, if you 3 would continue to yield -- and I appreciate your 4 answer, but that -- that, again puts the focus 5 on the central registry. Then what does the 6 central registry do? If our intent is to get 7 instances of convictions, that, you say, is 8 going to be kept -- that information is going to 9 be kept by the Board of Education -- I don't 10 mean by the Board of Education -- by the 11 Education Department. Now, what does the 12 central registry keep? 13 SENATOR SALAND: The central 14 registry is involved here in two ways. In the 15 first instance because many people, rightfully, 16 assume that if there is an allegation of neglect 17 or abuse, they should contact the central 18 registry hot line. They -- somebody, a parent, 19 perhaps, may take it upon themselves -- a parent 20 or guardian -- to contact the central registry 21 hot line and what we've provided for is not that 22 the central registry respond, as they would 23 typically do in contacting the local social 24 service department to do an investigation. 25 We've provided that the central registry will 2052 1 serve, in effect, as a referral agency to refer 2 this matter to the local school superintendent 3 of the local school district. That's one role 4 of the central registry. 5 The second role is, as part of an 6 employment screen, in order to determine if the 7 individual who is making application for a 8 position has either a criminal record or has 9 ever been found to have committed child abuse, 10 there is the ability to do a central registry 11 search. There is not the ability, as I 12 explained earlier, to go into unfounded 13 allegations. That is not within the parameters 14 of this bill and there's nothing in here that 15 amends or attempts to amend what occurred when 16 we adopted Elisa's Law to make this an 17 additional access means to those records. 18 That's not my intent and it's nothing that 19 occurs under this law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 if you would continue to yield. 24 Senator Saland, thank you. I 25 think you've certainly clarified something for 2053 1 me and maybe everybody here understood it 2 before, but I think now you're -- at least in my 3 viewpoint, you're in the soup. That's precisely 4 what Senator Montgomery and Senator Paterson 5 were concerned about and that's precisely what I 6 was trying to get to. 7 There's an allegation -- so 8 taking my example where there's a charge that 9 teacher Steve Saland hit this kid. So what the 10 mother does, the first thing she does is she 11 calls the central registry and says there's 12 child abuse at the local school. The next day 13 she sees the principal. The principal makes out 14 the form. That goes to the D.A. The D.A. looks 15 at it, investigates, finds out sure enough, the 16 kid was in a fight. Other kids testify to that 17 and no record whatsoever is ever generated 18 against Steve Saland, the teacher, but in the 19 meantime you've got that complaint hanging out 20 in the central registry. 21 Now, it's true, your bill says 22 that it's only where the complaint is indicated, 23 which is the language that's used in regard to 24 the central registry, but indicated, the central 25 registry doesn't conduct a careful criminal 2054 1 investigation. They may -- they may just call 2 up the kid and say what happened and the kid 3 says, Oh, this teacher, he lost his temper and 4 he hit me, and so on. You can end up with an 5 indicated report. 6 So under this example, teacher 7 Saland who is -- the D.A. has cleared it and 8 said, Oh, the kid just made that charge because 9 he didn't want his mother to know he was in a 10 fight in school, now the central registry has an 11 indicated child abuse finding and their 12 standard, Senator, as you know, is not beyond a 13 reasonable doubt. It's not even the 14 preponderance of the evidence. It's the 15 sheerest, merest evidence whatever and Teacher 16 Saland now applies to another school district. 17 He's never going to get another job within the 18 school district -- within the school system. 19 Isn't that the case? 20 SENATOR SALAND: I would 21 respectfully beg to differ with you because, 22 number one, the indicated standard certainly is 23 not as abused as you would indicate that it is. 24 When you look at the sheer number of cases and 25 see the way they are received by the central 2055 1 registry and see the way they funneled the way 2 through the process, the number of indicated 3 cases, I would guess -- and I just don't have a 4 recollection of all of them -- of the data - 5 would probably be somewhere in the area of no 6 more than about 20 percent, but let me come back 7 to what I said before in response to the inquiry 8 by Senator Paterson. 9 Where there is -- this screening 10 occurs when the teacher makes application for 11 his or her license. If, in fact, an indicated 12 comes up with the central registry, under the 13 existing regulations or practice, since the 1995 14 Prealta case, that person who would be the 15 respondent in that proceeding has the ability to 16 have that -- to have an expungement hearing 17 where the burden is on the department to show 18 not by merely credible evidence but by the 19 standard established in Prealta, which is a fair 20 preponderance of the evidence that, in fact, 21 there was an incident of child abuse. That's 22 the standard. It's not mere credible evidence. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Leichter. 2056 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 2 Saland, maybe one more question, I hope. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Saland, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Senator continues to yield. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator -- and 10 I don't know the answer to this. 11 SENATOR SALAND: I hope I do. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: When an 13 allegation of child abuse is made -- let's deal 14 just with the record of the central registry - 15 whether it's in the home or in school, and so 16 on, and a finding of indicated is made, does the 17 central registry call or notify the person who 18 is alleged to have committed this abuse that an 19 indicated allegation or an indicated charge -- a 20 charge has been made against that person that's 21 indicated, because my concern is you may not 22 know -- in my example, you may not know. You're 23 Steve Saland. You have been charged with this. 24 The D.A. looks at this and says "Absurd. Never 25 did it." In the meantime, if you have been 2057 1 indicated by the child registry, you may not 2 know until eight or nine years, unless you're 3 notified, and I don't know whether they notify 4 you, but I just want to play out what happens if 5 you're not officially notified. It's ten years 6 later. Now you find out that crazy charge was 7 made against you that happened ten years ago. 8 Go ahead. Now establish the evidence that it 9 was unfounded. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 11 Leichter, there is a notification procedure. If 12 it's purely a matter of a social service 13 investigation, there is notification. If the 14 matter is one in which there is some kind of 15 petition that results in which there is a Family 16 Court proceeding, there certainly is that 17 additional notification as well. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me, one 19 -- if I may, with your indulgence, Senator, one 20 more. Are you 100 percent sure, because I 21 looked -- I did some work on the central 22 registry some years ago, and I must tell you, it 23 works quite poorly. You can't have much faith 24 either in their findings of unfounded or in 25 their findings of indicated, but my belief at 2058 1 that time for -- and there was some good policy 2 reasons for it -- that they do not notify 3 somebody that allegations have been made or that 4 there is an indicated finding. That's my 5 recollection but it's somewhat dim. So I just 6 ask you to be 100 percent sure because it really 7 would otherwise impose an impossible burden, in 8 some cases, where there was an indicated finding 9 if you're never told about it. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Under the law 11 that -- well, let me say I handled a number of 12 these cases in a prior life when I did work for 13 my local county Social Service Department, and 14 there certainly were a number of ability -- a 15 number of ways in which notice was provided. 16 Under the law that existed until 17 we did Elisa's Law, there was a notification 18 procedure which required you to be notified of 19 the availability of an expungement hearing. 20 Now, I would like to be able to 21 say unequivocally and with absolute certainty 22 that there is a social service notification 23 mechanism. My belief is, Senator Leichter, that 24 there is one. It certainly would seem to be 25 virtually impossible where there is an indicated 2059 1 finding as distinguished from an unfounded - 2 where there is an indicated finding, it would be 3 beyond the pale of anything that would remotely 4 approach due process not to provide notice to 5 that individual to give them the opportunity to 6 contest that finding. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I may just say 8 counsel advised me that you're absolutely 9 correct then. My memory seems to be getting 10 worse and worse because - 11 SENATOR SALAND: I have the same 12 problem, and I thank your counsel. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: But I want to 14 thank you very much for your patience, Senator 15 Saland, and your answers. 16 Just very briefly on the bill, I 17 don't think any of us have any problem in 18 setting up a system whereby somebody who works 19 in the school system who had a been convicted of 20 an offense involving a child or, for that 21 matter, probably involving even if it's a 22 financial offense, certainly other school 23 districts where that person applies to certainly 24 should know that to set up a central registry, 25 that's fine. We ought to do that and I commend 2060 1 Senator Saland for doing it. 2 I just am concerned that there is 3 an over-reaching here because you have this 4 parallel system, if you will, whereby 5 allegations can be sent to the central registry 6 in the very case where a district attorney may 7 say there is absolutely no basis for any charges 8 against that school district employee. There 9 may be an allegation in the central registry. 10 It may end up being indicated. You're right. 11 You can say, well, you can go through expunging 12 proceedings but that puts a burden on you to 13 come to at least initiate the proceeding, to 14 take this action. You've described it and you 15 said that it provides full due process. I don't 16 know why that aspect of it really has to be part 17 of your bill because if in every instance, as 18 your bill provides, where there is an 19 allegation, it goes to the D.A., why shouldn't 20 that be enough? We are concerned here, 21 allegations within the school system. 22 I guess one of the things you're 23 trying to do is also to reach out. Maybe there 24 were allegations in the home and that's why you 25 refer to the central registry. I can see some 2061 1 reason or justification for it, but I think that 2 you're opening up really the search so widely 3 that I think that information may well come in 4 which is going to be damming. It's utterly 5 fatal to the employee. You know no school 6 system is going to hire somebody if there's an 7 indicated finding when, in point of fact, 8 knowing how the central registry works, it 9 really may not amount to anything whatsoever, 10 and I think it's that aspect of it that's 11 worrisome. I also -- as you and I were 12 discussing it, I think that your definition of 13 "physical injury" needs to be, in some 14 respects, tightened up because I think it is too 15 vague. 16 I wish you would make those 17 changes in the bill because I think that it's 18 much more likely to become law, and I think it 19 would be a much better law. It would really 20 cover the areas that we're truly concerned 21 about, which is some sort of criminal conviction 22 of somebody in the school system who now seeks 23 another job, certainly the employer should know 24 that. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2062 1 Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, will Senator Saland yield to just a 4 couple of questions? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Saland, do you yield to a couple of questions 7 from Senator Dollinger? The Senator yields. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 9 have been through this bill and there's 10 something that is just -- must have been left 11 out of the bill. Where is the appropriation to 12 pay the school districts and the Department of 13 Education for all the extra administrative time 14 that it's going to take to administer this? 15 SENATOR SALAND: I believe the 16 memo indicates that we feel this could be 17 accomplished with existing appropriations. We 18 don't believe that there are a flood or plethora 19 of these cases. It's fairly -- it can be 20 handled fairly routinely. The burden on the 21 school district is primarily a matter of a 22 notice procedure. After they've done their 23 notice procedure, to the district attorney, to 24 the respective people required, they're pretty 25 much out of the loop. SED has to be a 2063 1 repository for receipt of the information and, 2 again, quite candidly, I don't think we're 3 talking hundreds of cases here and even if there 4 were hundreds -- and I say quite candidly, I 5 don't think it's anywhere near that kind of 6 number -- you're not talking about a major 7 fiscal impact. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 9 you, Mr. President, do you have anything from 10 any school district anywhere in the state that 11 agrees with the statements you just made? Is 12 there anything from the school district where 13 they agree with you that they've got plenty - 14 SENATOR SALAND: The school 15 districts have been silent on this issue. In my 16 earlier remarks, I mentioned that there was 17 certain anecdotal information of media accounts 18 where these type of situations have occurred. 19 There's one situation in my own district in 20 which something like this has occurred. I'm not 21 quite sure what we will see if and when this 22 bill were to become enacted but there's nothing 23 here that I can remotely believe would 24 constitute any kind of a burden on either a 25 school district or the SED. 2064 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 2 you, Mr. President, just one other question. Is 3 there anything in state law currently that 4 prohibits the school districts from doing 5 exactly what your bill requires other than 6 maintaining the registry at the Department of 7 Education? 8 SENATOR SALAND: There is 9 absolutely nothing in state law that provides by 10 way of regulation or statute any guidance to any 11 school districts and the problem is that in any 12 number of instance, whether for the best of 13 reasons or the worst of reasons, school 14 districts have chosen not to deal with this 15 issue. In some instances, they may have 16 believed, whether for the best of reasons or for 17 the worst of reasons, that they were assisting 18 the child by not subjecting the child to 19 additional trauma, by bringing some type of a 20 proceeding on. In other instance, they may have 21 thought that they were limiting their liability 22 and perhaps their exposure or not letting the 23 general community know that something like this 24 had happened within their midst. 25 So the reality is that there is 2065 1 nothing on any record anywhere that's going to 2 indicate a mechanism for school districts to 3 follow. We believe this is reasonable. We 4 believe it accomplishes what we think it should 5 accomplish and, as I mentioned in my earlier 6 remarks, we're already requiring fingerprinting 7 of school bus drivers. The city of New York, I 8 believe fingerprints all of its school 9 employees. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 11 you, Mr. President. So you've never circulated 12 this bill to any school district and asked them 13 what the cost associated with the administrative 14 and criminal penalties that you now attached to 15 failure to process the administrative 16 requirements in this bill. No school district 17 is made in on that issue? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Quite honestly, 19 Senator, I think that is pure bunk. I mean, I 20 think you're reaching for an issue where none 21 exists. You're beating something to death. If 22 you're going to tell me -- if it's your sense 23 that there are a number of cases out there, that 24 there are hundreds if not thousands of these 25 cases, tell me about it. The fact is this bill 2066 1 has been out there for two or three years. The 2 School Boards Association has never uttered a 3 peep. NYSUT found us. They provided a memo. 4 We've heard nothing from the School Boards 5 Association and that may well be part of the 6 problem. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 8 you, Mr. President, just on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Dollinger, on the bill. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This is a 12 bill I think we've done in the past. I 13 understand Senator Saland's position, but every 14 time I get up here and talk about mandates, I'm 15 always reminded -- I think, Senator Saland, you 16 carried the massive mandate relief bill. 17 Remember the mandate relief in which we're 18 telling another level of government to do 19 something that we think is right, that we think 20 is the right thing to do and they come back to 21 us and say, Great. If you think it's such a 22 great thing to do, why don't you give us the 23 money to pay for it and, you know, the response 24 I've gotten every year I have been here is 25 three-fold: 2067 1 First of all, everybody says, 2 It's not that big a problem. It won't cost that 3 much money, to which I say, well, then why do we 4 need to do the bill if it isn't that big of a 5 problem. 6 The second response is, Oh, 7 they're already doing it, they're already out 8 there doing it. This bill just codifies it. 9 Well, if they're already doing it, why do we 10 need to tell them to do it? 11 And then the lsat thing I'm 12 always told, Listen, Senator, it's worth the 13 cost. No matter how much it costs, if we're 14 going to protect children, it's by far worth the 15 cost. We've told that to the school districts 16 for a century and every time they come it here, 17 they say, Give us some mandate relief, will 18 you? Is there some way you could stop telling 19 us what to do without paying for it? Put your 20 money where your mouth is. Stick a little $5 21 million appropriation in this bill. Make it 22 real. Give them a way to pay for it and they 23 will gladly welcome the ability to follow this 24 stringent outline that you've talked about, 25 Senator; but instead, we want to sit here and 2068 1 talk about mandate relief out of one corner of 2 our mouth and out of telling them wjat to do, 3 and how to prevent child abuse out of the other 4 one. 5 I voted for this bill in the 6 past. I'm probably commited to vote for it 7 again, Senator, but it seems to me, if you want 8 to make real sense, you want to really solve the 9 problem, tell them to do something. Give them 10 the funds to enable them to do it an do it right 11 and then we may really have a solution to this 12 problem and we can stop talking about these 13 massive bills at other times of the year when 14 mandate relief is the fashion instead of pre 15 venting child abuse. 16 I think this bill has got a huge 17 cost associated with it. Look at the computer 18 technology; look at the administrative time. I 19 think if we were honest and realistic with 20 ourselves, there would be an appropriation on 21 this bill and it might really mean something. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 24 (There was no response.) 25 The Secretary will read the last 2069 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 3 act shall take effect on the 1st day of January. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 8 the results when tabulated. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 13 was listening to this debate and I did vote for 14 this in the past, and I just want it understood 15 that having heard the debate, I'm going to vote 16 in the negative on the arguments I heard from 17 Senator Montgomery and Senator Leichter. 18 Senator Dollinger's arguments may 19 have been interesting, but since they don't 20 cause him enough grief to vote no, my no vote is 21 a reflection of the arguments of Senator 22 Leichter. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Gold will be recorded in the negative. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2070 1 the negative on Calendar Number 308: Senator 2 Connor, Gold, Kruger, Leichter, Montgomery, 3 Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, Smith, Stavisky and 4 Waldon, also Senator Markowitz. Ayes 49, nays 5 12. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 The Secretary will continue to 9 read the controversial calendar. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 331, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1474, an 12 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 13 cancellation of registration. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Maltese, an explanation has been asked for by 17 Senator Leichter. 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 19 the bill is to amend the Election Law, in 20 relation to the cancellation of registration. 21 This bill would remove the 22 requirement that a Board of Elections send a 23 notice to a person whose voter registration is 24 cancelled because the voter died. 25 Now, this would apply where New 2071 1 York City and New York State Boards of Health 2 are required to send notifications to the county 3 boards. It's one of the few times that 4 bureaucracies have resulted in the elimination 5 of some bureaucratic steps. I appreciate the 6 opportunity for a request for an explanation 7 because it gives me the opportunity at this time 8 to use a Cook County, Chicago, Illinois statute 9 which I believe read something like dying is not 10 a sufficient reason to avoid the civic duty of 11 voting. 12 I was hoping that Senator 13 Oppenheimer would be here, and I want to give 14 her an opportunity because she has a little 15 adage something quite like it. 16 I think the sections are very 17 clear. What happened here apparently is that, 18 when they deleted the requirement of 19 notification, they deleted the requirements and 20 did not specifically refer to the dying of a 21 registered voter. 22 So this was at the request of the 23 state Board of Elections, and we attempted to 24 comply. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 2072 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Senator 4 Maltese, you certainly are interfering with a 5 traditional right and certainly there are 6 places, I've heard it said, there are some 7 politicians who have said, I want to be buried 8 in Chicago because I want to remain active in 9 politics. 10 The truth of the matter is, 11 Senator, when I laid this bill aside, I thought 12 we were dealing with 330, and obviously I don't 13 think anybody objects to removing the name of a 14 registrant who has died, but I just want to make 15 this comment, Senator, and maybe if you bring up 16 330, we'll have an opportunity. 17 Our campaign finance law, our 18 Election Law, is a disgrace, utter absolute 19 disgrace. Now, I'm glad that you're addressing 20 a burning issue, but I say with all respect to 21 you as chair of the Election Law Committee, that 22 there are things that we desperately need to do 23 as far as campaign financing is concerned 24 because, with all the abuses that we've seen 25 reported on the national level, we have a sewer 2073 1 here in New York State, and I'm not charging one 2 particular party or the other. 3 I've issued reports that shows 4 that your party, Senator Maltese, has been 5 highly imaginative in doing end runs around our 6 campaign finance law, but I say to you there's a 7 real obligation to take some action and I would 8 hope that when this session ends, that we as a 9 Legislature, if we're asked, What did you do 10 about the Election Law and campaign financing, 11 that we get up very proudly and say, Oh, you 12 know, we said that, when somebody has died, 13 their name has to be removed from the registry. 14 Senator, we need to do more than 15 that. Important as the step you're taking 16 today, let's go much, much further. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Will Senator 19 Maltese yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Maltese, do you yield to Senator Skelos? 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Did you ever 24 have the opportunity to visit the Lincoln 25 bedroom in the White House? 2074 1 SENATOR MALTESE: No, I haven't, 2 Senator Skelos, but I want to use this 3 opportunity, since I'm on my feet to berate 4 Senator Leichter, because he used Senator 5 Oppenheimer's joke that this supposedly took 6 place in Mamaroneck. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 8 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 9 (There was no response.) 10 Hearing none, the Secretary will 11 read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 61. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 333, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 2651, an 22 act to amend the Election Law and State Finance 23 Law, in relation to requiring a proposition 24 authorizing the creation of a state debt. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2075 1 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very 2 much. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Farley, an explanation has been asked for. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me begin by 6 thanking Senator Dollinger for supporting this 7 bill last year. 8 This bill amends the Election Law 9 and it requires that the bond issue -- a bond 10 issue proposition that goes on the ballot 11 contain an estimate of the total amount to be 12 repaid by the taxpayers, both principal and 13 interest. At present, only the principal is 14 listed. This is kind of a truth in borrowing 15 law, and it also provides that any descriptive 16 documents prepared by the state relating to the 17 bond issue list both principal and interest. 18 This passed the Senate 19 unanimously last year, and actually what this 20 does, this is similar to consumer borrowing that 21 requires disclosure of the total expected costs. 22 Now, somebody might ask, as you 23 would ask, is how do you know what the interest 24 rate will be? Well, you really don't. The 25 Comptroller will have to estimate what the 2076 1 interest rate would be with his -- with his best 2 guess, I guess you could say, and it would be 3 reflected in that total amount and, again, until 4 those bonds go out, you wouldn't know for sure. 5 It's designed to reflect the 6 administrative reality by providing an estimate 7 of the total cost insomuch as the actual rate of 8 interest at which obligations can be determined 9 in advance. 10 Also, this bill calls for 11 disclosure to be printed in the largest type 12 which is practicable for the different documents 13 involved, recognizing administrative realities 14 of varying documents on the ballot. 15 Basically, that's the -- I guess 16 that's it. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 20 President, I don't need to question Senator 21 Farley. I'm just going to repeat history. 22 I did support this bill, 23 Senator. I'm not going to support it this time, 24 because, as you may recall, last year when we 25 did the Environmental Bond issue, I stood up and 2077 1 proposed an amendment which would require that 2 when we submitted the environmental bond to 3 voters, we stated exactly what the interest 4 accrual would be on that bond over 30 years, 5 which would have transformed a $1.75 billion 6 bond issue into the true cost to voters, which 7 is about 3.1 billion. 8 At that time I came before this 9 house. I proposed an amendment that we dis 10 close the interest, that we actually take this 11 bill and take the principle which you and I 12 share and put it into place. We had the 13 opportunity to do that. We didn't do it, and 14 now we're going to pass a bill, with all due 15 respect to Senator Farley -- this is a good bill 16 -- I just can't support the idea of doing it in 17 form but not doing it in practice. We had an 18 opportunity to do it; the Majority of this house 19 voted it down, and I can only assume, Senator, 20 that they're not committed to this principle 21 when it really means something. 22 We had an opportunity to do it 23 last time. I came up with an amendment. The 24 Majority all voted against it, so I can assume 25 that this bill has some poster meaning but no 2078 1 real meaning, Senator. 2 I appreciate it. I support the 3 concept. I can't do it anymore. I'm accused of 4 hypocrisy at other times. Today I'm going to 5 try, on this vote anyway, try to be consistent 6 and say I supported you in the past. I wanted 7 to do it when you had a chance to make it real, 8 to tell the people of this state that what they 9 were sold for 1.75 billion actually cost about 10 3.2 billion over 30 years. 11 We had a chance to do it. We 12 didn't do it. It doesn't seem to me to make 13 sense to go back to this bill when we weren't 14 committed to do it then and it doesn't seem to 15 me that we're committed to it now. 16 I'm going to vote no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 25 the results when tabulated. 2079 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60, nays 1, 4 Senator Dollinger recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 To answer your question, Senator 8 Skelos, there is one substitution we would like 9 to take up, if we can. I would ask the 10 Secretary to read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi 12 moves to discharge from the Committee on 13 Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number 14 2101 and substitute it for the identical Senate 15 Bill 2921-A. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 substitution is ordered. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 20 there being no further business, I move we 21 adjourn until Wednesday, March 26th, at 11:00 22 a.m., sharp. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 24 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate 25 stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 2080 1 March 26th, at the regular time, 11:00 a.m. 2 (Whereupon, at 4:52 p.m., the 3 Senate adjourned.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10