Wednesday, March 26, 1997

2081 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 26, 1997 11 11:00 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 2082 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their chairs, staff to find their places. 5 I'd ask everybody in the chamber to rise with me 6 and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance 7 to the Flag. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 10 In the absence of clergy, may we 11 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed. ) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Tuesday, March 25th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, March 24th, 18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 24 Messages from the Assembly. 25 Messages from the Governor. 2083 1 Reports of standing committees. 2 Reports of select committees. 3 Communications and reports from 4 state officers. 5 Motions and resolutions. 6 Senator Marcellino. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 8 President. On page number 27, on behalf of 9 Senator Volker, I offer the following amendments 10 to Calendar Number 441, Senate Print Number 11 1467, and ask that the bill retain its place on 12 the Third Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 amendments to Calendar Number 441 are received 15 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 16 the Third Reading Calendar. 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 19 believe there are five privileged resolutions by 20 Senator Tully at the desk. May we please have 21 the titles read and move for their immediate 22 adoption. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 24 will read the titles to the five resolutions. 25 We'll adopt them at one time. 2084 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Tully, 2 Legislative Resolution paying tribute to the 3 members of Senior Troop 973 upon the occasion of 4 their designation for special commendation on 5 March 26th, 1997; 6 By Senator Tully, Legislative 7 Resolution paying tribute to the members of 8 Cadet Troop 1022 upon the occasion of their 9 designation for special commendation on March 10 26th, 1997; 11 By Senator Tully, Legislative 12 Resolution paying tribute to the members of 13 Cadet Troop 1052, upon the occasion of their 14 designation for special commendation on March 15 26th, 1997; 16 By Senator Tully, Legislative 17 Resolution paying tribute to members of Cadet 18 Troop 1737, upon the occasion of their 19 designation for special commendation March 26th, 20 1997; and 21 By Senator Tully, Legislative 22 Resolution paying tribute to members of Junior 23 Troop 1859, upon the occasion of their 24 designation for special commendation on March 25 26th, 1997. 2085 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 2 recognizes Senator Tully, on the resolutions. 3 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 I rise and ask that we pause in 6 our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets 7 and - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Tully, excuse me for an interruption just a 10 minute. It's a little noisy in the chamber. 11 Can we get some order in the house, please. 12 Have a number of guests, and I'm sure they would 13 like to hear what Senator Tully is about to 14 say. 15 Senator Tully. 16 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I rise and ask that we pause in 19 our daily deliberations to recognize the cadets 20 and senior Girl Scouts from the hamlets of 21 Williston Park, Albertson, Roslyn and Mineola to 22 my rear and up above me. We're privileged to 23 have with us representatives of the Senior Troop 24 973, Cadet Troop 1737, Cadet Troop 1052 -- 1022 25 and Junior Troop 1859. They join us today in 2086 1 celebration of this, the 85th Anniversary of the 2 Girl Scouts. 3 When many of us think about Girl 4 Scouts, one of the first things that pops into 5 our heads are the infamous Girl Scout cookies. 6 However, the Girl Scouts are a lot more than 7 that. 8 Founded in 1812 by Juliet Gordon 9 in Savannah, Georgia, Girl Scouts are an 10 organization with a proud past and a bright 11 future helping girls to become tomorrow's 12 leaders in a fun and healthy atmosphere. 13 There are over 3 million Girl 14 Scouts nationwide and 17,000 in the great county 15 of Nassau, including 36 associations and 1200 16 troops. 17 Throughout all of our district, 18 the Girl Scouts are known and respected for 19 their unparalleled commitment to their 20 community. The spirit of the Girl Scouts 21 promotes the development and growth of young 22 women. 23 Today the Girl Scouts of Nassau 24 County offer a broad range of programs dealing 25 with many contemporary challenges such as 2087 1 choices and "Challenges", a program dealing with 2 drug and alcohol abuse prevention. 3 We all thank you for making our 4 communities better places to live. The Girl 5 Scouts certainly represent a perfect example in 6 citizenry which all of us should follow. Again 7 congratulations on your 85th Anniversary. I 8 thank each and every one of you for joining us 9 today and wish you the best of luck and future 10 success in all that you do. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 14 resolutions? Hearing none, the question is on 15 the resolutions prepared and presented by 16 Senator Tully. All those in favor signify by 17 saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 Opposed nay. 20 (There was no response. ) 21 The resolutions are adopted. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 with the consent of the Minority, I just want to 25 notify the members that there is a Calendar 2088 1 Number 457, S. 3864, by Senator Marcellino, 2 concerning the management of sea bass, which has 3 been added to the live calendar and if we could 4 at this time take up the non-controversial 5 calendar. 6 Make substitutions first? If we 7 could have the substitutions made first. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the 9 benefit of the members, the Acting Majority 10 Leader just announced that the active list has 11 been amended by adding Calendar Number 457, so 12 add Calendar Number 457 to your active list. We 13 do have some substitutions at the desk and a 14 standing committee report that we can take up 15 too. 16 I'll ask the Secretary to read 17 the substitutions. 18 THE SECRETARY: On page 25 19 Senator Stafford moves to discharge from the 20 Committee on Finance Assembly Bill Number 1301-A 21 and substitute it for the identical Third 22 Reading Calendar 412. 23 On page 25, Senator Stafford 24 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance 25 Assembly Bill Number 6551 and substitute it for 2089 1 the identical Third Reading Calendar 415. 2 On page 27, Senator Present moves 3 to discharge from the Committee on Local 4 Government Assembly Bill Number 6329 and 5 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 6 Calendar 436. 7 And on page 29, Senator LaValle 8 moves to discharge from the Committee on 9 Environmental Conservation Assembly Bill Number 10 5299 and substitute it for the identical Third 11 Reading Calendar 455. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 substitutions are ordered. 14 Senator Skelos, we do have that 15 report of a standing committee, the Higher 16 Education Committee, that we could read in. 17 We'll return to the order of standing -- reports 18 of standing committees. I'll ask the Secretary 19 to read the report. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle, 21 from the Committee on Higher Education, reports 22 the following bill direct to third reading: 23 Senate Print 3511, by Senator 24 Lack, an act authorizing the State University of 25 New York to lease and contract for the design 2090 1 and construction of an Asian cultural and 2 studies center. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 4 objection, hearing no objection, the bill is 5 ordered directly to third reading. Senator 6 Skelos, that brings us to the calendar. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: 8 Non-controversial please, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the non-controversial 11 calendar. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 182, by Senator Velella, Senate Print Number 14 2076-A, an act to amend the General Business 15 Law, in relation to establishing additional 16 restrictions. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2091 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an 4 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 5 motor vehicle liability insurance rates. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay that 7 aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside at the request of Senator Dollinger. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 289, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 1924, an 12 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 13 authorizing an additional term of imprisonment. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 17 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2092 1 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480, 2 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 3 relation to transportation of certain persons. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 6 bill aside at the request of Senator Paterson. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 325, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 927-A, an act 9 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the 10 Public Authorities Law, in relation to 11 authorizing cities. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 15 act shall take effect in 30 days. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 the passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 359, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print Number 24 3080, an act to amend the General Municipal Law, 25 in relation to powers of municipalities. 2093 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Padavan, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Lay that bill 4 aside for the day pending receipt of 5 amendments. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 7 Number 359 will be laid aside at the request of 8 the sponsor. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 369, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 204, an 11 acted to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 12 increasing bonded indebtedness. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 15 read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 392, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2804, an 2094 1 act to amend Chapter 31 of the Laws of 1985, 2 amending the Education Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 4 will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 412, substituted earlier today, Budget Bill, 15 Assembly Print 1301-A, an act making 16 appropriations for the legal requirements of the 17 state debt service. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is high. It will be laid aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 415, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 22 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act 23 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 24 to powers of the Dormitory Authority. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2095 1 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 416, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 4 Print 3865, an act to amend the State Finance 5 Law, in relation to monies available. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 417, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 10 Print 3867, an act to amend the State Finance 11 Law, in relation to monies available. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 427, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Print 3863, an act to amend Chapter 329 of the 17 Laws of 1991, amending the State Finance Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 428, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 22 Print 3866, an act to amend the Transportation 23 Law, in relation to fees paid to defray the 24 operating expenses. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2096 1 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 435, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3754, an act 4 to amend Chapter 708 of the Laws of 1992, 5 amending the General Municipal Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 436, by member of the Assembly Ramirez, Assembly 18 Print 6329, substituted earlier today, an act to 19 amend Chapter 540 of the Laws of 1992. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senate bill is high, but the Assembly substitute 22 is live. Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2097 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834, 8 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 9 Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is high. The bill will be laid aside. 12 Senator Skelos, that completes 13 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 if we could take up the controversial calendar 16 starting with Senator DeFrancisco's bill, 17 Calendar Number 311. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Dollinger, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A motion to 21 discharge pending. Is that motion in order at 22 this time? Can we take that? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, it's 24 not, Senator. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It is not? 2098 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, the 2 calendar specifically provides that the motions 3 to discharge will be taken up at the end of the 4 day, so after we're done with the calendar, then 5 and at the end of the day you'll be recognized 6 for that purpose. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is that - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Skelos, did you wish to speak to that? 10 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe that's 11 Rule V. And would you please recognize Senator 12 Seward. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Seward. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, 16 if I could interrupt the proceedings briefly to 17 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 270, 18 270. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 will be starred at the request of the sponsor. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Dollinger, does that explain to you? 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a point 25 of order, Mr. President. Does that mean that we 2099 1 go through the controversial calendar and there 2 are bills that are either laid aside or for some 3 other purpose, and the Rules Committee meets 4 that it's after that, or the reading of the 5 controversial calendar. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: It is the last 10 order of business of the day. 11 If we could take up Senator 12 DeFrancisco's bill, Calendar Number 311. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read Calendar Number 311. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 311, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 480, 17 an act to amend the Social Services Law, in 18 relation to the transportation of certain 19 persons. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 DeFrancisco, an explanation of Calendar Number 23 311 has been requested by the Acting Minority 24 Leader, Senator Paterson. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill 2100 1 is to require that, if an individual is seeking 2 transportation and it's paid for my Medicaid or 3 social services in some fashion, that if the 4 person is physically and mentally capable of 5 using a fixed route public transportation 6 system, then that the individual would be 7 scheduled on that rather than an alternative 8 type of transportation. 9 The reason for this bill is, 10 number one, if someone is capable and able 11 bodied and able to use public transportation 12 just like anyone else who is not on social 13 services, they should be suitable for -- the 14 public transportation should be suitable for 15 those individuals. 16 Secondly, it has a second 17 benefit, not only to cut costs in social 18 services, but every year we in the Senate and 19 the Assembly, provide support for public 20 transportation by way of grants to various 21 public transportation facilities such as CENTRO 22 in my district. By having this requirement, not 23 only will it save money in social services, but 24 it will also provide for increased ridership of 25 public transportation and, therefore, reduce the 2101 1 need for subsidies to allow public transporta 2 tion which is needed by all, especially low 3 income workers, a reliable public transportation 4 system is essential, so it will increase 5 ridership and help those type of organizations 6 as well. 7 That's the purpose for the bill, 8 and it did pass last year. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 If Senator DeFrancisco would 14 yield for a few questions. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I will. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 19 related to this particular bill there have been 20 a number of complaints that I have heard about 21 and received from seniors who may not be totally 22 incapacitated but certainly suffer from a number 23 of physical challenges, and what this bill will 24 effectively do in many cases is force, in New 25 York City, seniors onto the subway, and I'm 2102 1 wondering, in spite of the fact that it may have 2 some -- it may have some cost reductions, 3 whether or not you think this is a good idea, 4 where you have such a subjective standard of 5 what incapacity would be and prior approval. 6 The point just is that it seems 7 pretty clear to most of the senior groups and 8 the seniors that I have spoken to that it's 9 going to cause an encumbrance and an 10 inconvenience for those who really do need the 11 care. It's not that -- that they're just taking 12 advantage of taxpayer dollars, and their trip to 13 receive that care is going to be made that much 14 more difficult by the passage of -- of what 15 you're proposing. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, you 17 know, if we were in a perfect world, we could 18 pay for everything for anybody, whatever their 19 needs might be, but unfortunately we're not in 20 that situation. 21 What the bill says specifically 22 is that public transportation shall be required 23 when that transportation is available and the 24 nature and severity of the recipient's illness 25 does not necessitate a mode of transportation. 2103 1 If the senior or the junior or anybody else can 2 prove that -- establish that their illness is 3 such that other type of transportation is 4 required, then they wouldn't be subject to the 5 requirements of this particular bill. 6 So I think there's people who 7 aren't on public assistance that are old too 8 that go on public transportation. There are 9 people that are in low income jobs that also go 10 on public transportation, and when we keep 11 cutting routes in public transportation because 12 we don't have enough ridership, that requires us 13 to fund in the public transportation area as 14 well. 15 I think the bill strikes a good 16 balance because those cases that compel other 17 types of transportation would be permitted under 18 the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 if Senator DeFrancisco would continue to yield. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 continues to yield. 2104 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 Senator, how do you distinguish 4 between "disability" and "illness" under the 5 legislation? It seems as if individuals who are 6 disabled but not ill would still be required to 7 use these methods of transportation. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, 9 whether you call it illness or disability, if 10 public transportation is something that is 11 inappropriate for that particular individual, 12 then public transportation is not required. 13 You know, in the law, we've been 14 interpreting "reasonable man" or woman for many, 15 many years, most recently women, but it always 16 used to be the "reasonable man" standard and 17 that standard has been interpreted by the courts 18 and has been interpreted by administrators for 19 years and years. There's no precise definition 20 that you can give, but the intent is clear that 21 obviously if an individual has a condition such 22 that public transportation is inappropriate, 23 then that -- then they would not be required to 24 use public transportation and certain 25 disabilities, by the way, at least in our 2105 1 district, there are CENTRO buses that do have 2 ramps that allow for individuals with certain 3 handicapped conditions to use public 4 transportation. In fact, the groups demanded it 5 and got it so that they could travel like 6 everybody else can, and so by using the word 7 "disability", there's some people with 8 disabilities that not only travel on public 9 transportation but also wanted to travel on 10 public transportation, and that's why the buses 11 were modified and new buses have these 12 particular ramps. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. If the Senator would continue to 17 yield. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 continues to yield. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, since 22 it is not a perfect world and we are using a 23 reasonable standard test, my question simply is, 24 since we already require prior approval, what is 25 really going to be enhanced by passing this 2106 1 bill? I mean in other words we have a standard 2 right now that makes -- that not only delineates 3 between whether a person is able or not able to 4 sponsor themselves to get to this medical care, 5 and my question is, if that's already the case, 6 why would we want to tinker with it when the 7 individuals who are affected are pretty much 8 going to be people who have been taxpayer 9 dollars, their tax dollars have provided the 10 broad revenue base for our standard of living 11 and for our economy here in this state. 12 It just seems to me this is the 13 wrong crowd to really pick on if we want to cut 14 costs, and increase ridership on the subway or 15 whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish. 16 It's just my opinion that we are splitting hairs 17 but since we already have the prior approval, 18 why would we not just remain on that standard? 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Because it 20 depends on where you happen to live in the state 21 of New York whether or not -- how that prior 22 approval is being interpreted, and here is an 23 objective standard that would apply statewide 24 for prior approval. 25 Secondly, I'm not trying to pick 2107 1 on anybody. No one's trying to pick on anybody, 2 but it's similar to other bills that we pass. 3 It's wonderful to provide things for people, but 4 if you look at that next step, that next level 5 of individuals who may have the same 6 disabilities or may have the same illnesses that 7 can't afford public transportation but they're 8 not on social services, they have to -- they 9 have to find a way to do it as well. 10 It's just putting, I think, the 11 individuals who are on social services in the 12 same position as any other individual who may 13 not be, in an effort to increase ridership and 14 in an effort so that there is a viable public 15 transportation system for those who need it, 16 especially people with low income trying to 17 maintain a job and not be required to go on 18 social services. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 I want to thank Senator DeFrancisco for his 23 answer. 24 Mr. President, on the bill. It 25 really did take me a moment to try to figure out 2108 1 what Senator DeFrancisco was getting at, and his 2 explanation was -- was quite fulfilling in the 3 sense that I understand now what he's saying 4 about the problem in the current law as it's 5 applied in different areas around the state. 6 My response is simply that, if 7 there is a problem with the current law, I don't 8 think that we necessarily have to pass 9 legislation that is going to exact the 10 encumbrances on individuals who need this kind 11 of assistance as much as we might be able to go 12 through DSS or New York City HRA and accomplish 13 that through what I think would be some 14 administrative changes that might level the 15 playing field all over the state; but I just 16 think that as a means to increase ridership on 17 the subway as was mentioned or because of the 18 fact that perhaps a few people that probably 19 could get there by an alternative means of 20 transportation probably aren't, in my opinion, 21 it's so de minimus in terms of what its effect 22 is or even what its cost is that it doesn't, in 23 my opinion, augur well for us as a state to be 24 exacting this kind of inconvenience on many of 25 our citizens. 2109 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 3 Senator Waldon. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 5 much, Mr. President. 6 Would the learned gentleman from 7 Syracuse, great area of Syracuse yield to a 8 question or two? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 DeFrancisco, do you yield to Senator Waldon? 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 13 much, Mr. President. 14 Senator DeFrancisco, were any 15 studies conducted before you wrote this 16 legislation, this proposal, in regard to the 17 locations of bus lines in the city of New York 18 versus the homes of many of the seniors in that 19 area, meaning the distance as a rule of thumb 20 from home to accessing the bus lines? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's no 22 studies that I know of. The way the bill came 23 to my attention is that every year since I've 24 been in the Senate, our local bus company, 25 CENTRO, keeps coming to my office for additional 2110 1 revenues in order to balance their budget or 2 else they're going to cut lines, so there will 3 be less convenient lines for everybody and, at 4 some point in time, they had mentioned that 5 their organization had a similar situation occur 6 throughout at least upstate New York and central 7 New York where they were learning that many 8 individuals who would be physically capable to 9 take their bus service were being given 10 alternate means of transportation. 11 So the idea came actually from 12 them that this would be a win/win situation. 13 Number one, it would allow us to keep the more 14 bus routes that we had if we had increased 15 ridership and it would save money in the Social 16 Services Department, so I guess what I'm saying 17 no study but without something like this, 18 there's a risk at least in my area of reduced 19 number of bus lines because of reduced 20 revenues. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 22 gentleman yield to one more question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 2111 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 continues to yield. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 4 much, Mr. President. 5 By the way, Senator Paterson, can 6 you hear me now? Yesterday we discussed whether 7 or not this microphone works sufficiently well. 8 Are you able to hear me? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Will the 10 Senator yield? 11 SENATOR WALDON: He could have 12 just nodded. But anyway, Senator DeFrancisco, 13 the question is, are there any elevated lines in 14 Syracuse, New York? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's 16 none off the ground, no. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 18 much. Mr. President, on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Waldon, on the bill. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 22 think that this may be very appropriate, what 23 Senator DeFrancisco has proposed, for the city 24 of Syracuse, New York, but it is very inappro 25 priate for the city of New York. 2112 1 One, many of the seniors who may 2 be infirm or suffering disability, be it severe 3 or very light, have to negotiate from their 4 homes to the bus lines which are not so close 5 by. An example, the Q4, which goes up and down 6 Linden Boulevard which is just one block from my 7 house, but if you go over towards the cemetery 8 or Francis Lewis Boulevard -- and there are 9 many, many homes of constituents there -- people 10 in snowy times and wet weather times, be they 11 seniors or otherwise, have to walk that great 12 distance six or seven blocks just to get to that 13 bus line. When it's snow and ice on the ground, 14 it becomes an extreme difficulty for them. 15 Those who have to go to the elevated line would 16 have to negotiate those steps by themselves and 17 I don't think the standard as described in this 18 proposal is sufficiently sensitive to having 19 someone at DSS say, Well, you know, if you can 20 walk you can get there. They would not 21 necessarily say, If you can walk but with some 22 difficulty you will not have to use the public 23 transportation. 24 And so, for those reasons, I will 25 have to vote no. 2113 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 2 Senator yield to one question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Waldon, do you yield to a question from Senator 5 DeFrancisco? 6 SENATOR WALDON: Absolutely. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 yields. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How do those 10 same seniors and the same individuals get to the 11 various means of public transportation that are 12 not on social services? 13 SENATOR WALDON: Well, for the 14 most part, the organization that I helped to 15 create, the Jamaica Service Program for Older 16 Adults, which has been in existence for about a 17 quarter of a century and which services about 18 400,000 seniors in the southeast Queens areas, 19 they have bus services; they have van services. 20 They have the ability for the seniors to -- they 21 have the service where the seniors can call and 22 say, "I have to go to my doctor. I have to go 23 shopping for food," and someone is provided to 24 take them, so that's not an issue at this 25 moment. 2114 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: O.K. Thank 2 you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 4 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing 5 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 12 the results when tabulated. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 311 are Senators 15 Abate, Connor, Gentile, Gold, Kruger, Lachman, 16 Markowitz, Mendez, Paterson, Rosado, Santiago, 17 Seabrook, Smith and Waldon, also Senator 18 Sampson. Ayes 37, nays 15. Also Senator 19 Oppenheimer. Ayes 36, nays 18*(16?). 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 Senator Skelos, where would you 23 like to go next on the active list? 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Please take up 25 Calendar Number 235, by Senator Cook. 2115 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read Calendar Number 235, Senate Print 3 1418-A, by Senator Cook. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 235, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1418-A, an 6 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 7 motor vehicle liability insurance rates. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could we have 9 an explanation of that bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Cook, an explanation of Calendar Number 235 has 12 been requested by Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, a 14 short answer is this simply makes permanent a 15 provision that is currently in the law that has 16 a sunset date on it. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 20 President, I didn't hear that. I apologize. 21 SENATOR COOK: Senator, this 22 simply makes permanent a provision of law that's 23 already in there with a sunset date in it. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 25 President, is this 235? 2116 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: This is 2 Calendar Number 235, Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 4 The wording, Senator, has been 5 changed somewhat because the Insurance Committee 6 felt that, if we were going to make it 7 permanent, it would be a good idea to make the 8 language a little more clear, but it's currently 9 the provision that's in the law. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. That 11 answers my question, Mr. President. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 17 January. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 24 Senator Skelos, where would you 25 like to go next? 2117 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 we'll stand at ease. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senate will stand at ease. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is my motion 6 in order at this point? Mr. President, the 7 calendar is done. While we're waiting for 8 bills, I assume action from other committees, 9 why wouldn't it be - 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Dollinger, we're still on the order of the 12 calendar. We have not gone any farther than 13 that in the order, and the rules specifically - 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 15 believe we're at ease. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We are. 17 We are. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, can I ask a point of order while 20 we're at ease? Can I get a point of order at 21 ease or not? No? Unbelievable! 22 (The Senate stood at ease from 23 11:36 a.m., to 12:06 p.m.) 24 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2118 1 Velella. 2 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 3 there will be a Majority Conference in the 4 Majority Conference Room at 12:15, and the 5 Senate will stand at ease in the interim. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7 Republican conference, Majority Conference in 8 the Majority Conference Room at 12:15. 9 Senate stands at ease. 10 (The Senate was at ease from 11 12:07 p.m., until 1:15 p.m.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 16 will come to order. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 21 recognize Senator Montgomery. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Montgomery. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 25 Mr. President. 2119 1 I'd like to have unanimous 2 consent to be recorded in the negative on 3 Calendar 311. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 5 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 6 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 7 Calendar Number 311. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 10 recognize Senator Stavisky. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Stavisky. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: I also would 14 like to have unanimous consent to be recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 311. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 17 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 18 Stavisky will be recorded in the negative on 19 Calendar Number 311. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Bruno 22 would like the membership informed that the 23 Senate will stand in recess until 3:15 and would 24 suggest that you call each one's respective 25 leader to find out if we will be starting 2120 1 exactly at 3:15. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 3 stands in recess until 3:15. 4 (Whereupon at 1:18 p.m., the 5 Senate recessed until 5:09 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Senate will come to order. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 there will be an immediate meeting of the 11 Finance Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and 12 the Senate will stand at ease awaiting the 13 report of the Finance Committee. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 15 will be a immediate meeting of the Senate 16 Finance Committee, immediate meeting of the 17 Senate Finance Committee in the Majority 18 Conference Room, Room 332, and we'll stand at 19 ease awaiting the report from that committee 20 meeting, and which Senator Gold is on his way 21 anxiously and hurriedly out of the chamber to 22 attend. 23 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 24 ease from 5:10 p.m. until 5:20 p.m.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2121 1 Senate will come to order. Members please take 2 their chairs. 3 Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 5 if we could return to reports of standing 6 committees, I believe there's a report at the 7 desk of the Finance Committee. I ask that it be 8 read. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 10 return to the order of standing -- reports of 11 standing committees. 12 I'll ask the Secretary to read 13 the report of the Finance Committee. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 16 following bills: 17 Senate Print 3428-A, by Senator 18 Velella, an act to amend the Education Law, in 19 relation to transportation services; 20 3977, by the Senate Committee on 21 Rules, an act making appropriations for the 22 support of government; 23 3979, by the Senate Committee on 24 Rules, an act making appropriations for the 25 support of government; and 2122 1 3978, by the Senate Committee on 2 Rules, an act making appropriations for the 3 support of government. 4 All bills ordered direct for 5 third reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 at this time if we could go back to the regular 10 calendar and take up Calendar Number 412, Senate 11 701-A. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection, all bills reported from the Finance 14 Committee are ordered directly to third 15 reading. We'll return to the calendar, the 16 active list. 17 The Secretary will read Calendar 18 Number 412. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 412, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 21 1301-A, substituted earlier today, an act making 22 appropriations for the legal requirements of the 23 state debt service. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Skelos. 2123 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 2 message of necessity at the desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 7 Calendar Number 412. All those in favor signify 8 by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The message is accepted. 13 The Secretary will read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 would you take up Calendar Number 415, Senate 2124 1 3857. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 415, substituted earlier today by the Assembly 6 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6551, an act 7 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 8 to powers of the Dormitory Authority. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 17 Calendar Number 415. All those in favor signify 18 by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye".) 20 Opposed, nay. 21 (There was no response.) 22 The message is accepted. 23 The Secretary will read the last 24 section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2125 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 would you take up Calendar Number 457, Senate 11 3864. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 457, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 3834, 16 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 17 Law, in relation to extending authority to 18 regulate the management of scup and black sea 19 bass. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 23 message at the desk? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 2126 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 3 Calendar Number 457. All those in favor signify 4 by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye".) 6 Opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The message is accepted. 9 The Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 12 act shall take effect April 1st. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 21 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 22 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol and the 23 Senate will stand at ease pending the report of 24 the Rules Committee. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 2127 1 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 2 Committee in the Senate Majority Conference 3 Room, Room 332, an immediate meeting in the 4 Senate Majority Conference Room for the Rules 5 Committee and the Senate stands at ease. 6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 7 ease from 5:24 p.m. until 5:29 p.m.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senate will come to order again. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 if we could once again return to reports of 13 standing committees, I believe there's a report 14 of the Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that 15 it be read. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 17 return to the order of reports of standing 18 committees. 19 I'll ask the Secretary to read 20 the report from the Rules Committee. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 22 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 23 following bills: 24 Senate Print 3779, by Senator 25 Trunzo, an act to amend the Civil Service Law, 2128 1 in relation to providing for payments to certain 2 public employees; and 3 Senate Print 3980, by the Senate 4 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 5 Environmental Conservation Law, in relation to 6 centrally fueled fleets. 7 All bills ordered direct for 8 third reading. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 10 objection, all bills are ordered directly to 11 third reading. 12 Senator Skelos, we have a motion 13 we would like to take care of if that's okay at 14 this time. We'll return to motions and 15 resolutions. 16 The Chair recognizes Senator 17 Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 19 President. On behalf of Senator Goodman, on 20 page number 20, I offer the following amendments 21 to Calendar Number 379, Senate Print Number 753 22 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 23 Third Reading Calendar. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 amendments to Calendar Number 379 are received 2129 1 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 2 the Third Reading Calendar. 3 Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 would you please call up Senate 3428-A, which 9 was reported from the Finance Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have a 11 substitution on that bill we would like to read 12 first, Senator Skelos, to put it before the 13 house. 14 The Secretary will read the 15 substitution. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella 17 moves to discharge from the Committee on 18 Education Assembly Bill Number 6298-A and 19 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 20 Calendar 459. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 substitution is ordered. 23 The Secretary will read the 24 title. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2130 1 459, by member of the Assembly Sanders, Assembly 2 Print 6298-A, an act to amend the Education Law, 3 in relation to transportation services. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 would you take up Senate 3977 which was just 18 reported from the Finance Committee. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 21 -- excuse me -- Senate Print 3977, Calendar 22 Number 460. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 460, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 25 Print 3977, an act making appropriations for the 2131 1 support of government. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 5 message at the desk? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 7 a message of necessity on Calendar Number 460 at 8 the desk, Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 12 Calendar Number 460. All those in favor signify 13 by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The message is accepted. 18 The Secretary will read the last 19 section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 21 act shall take effect April 1st. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 2132 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could just 5 stand at ease for a moment. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Skelos, we do have a message from the Assembly, 8 if you would like to take that, concerning a 9 bill we put to third reading. It's Assembly 10 Print 6545. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept 12 the message from the Assembly. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 14 return to the reports of messages from the 15 Assembly. 16 I'll ask the Secretary to read. 17 THE SECRETARY: On motion of 18 Senator Bruno, the rules were suspended on said 19 bill, Assembly 6545, by the Assembly Committee 20 on Rules, ordered to third reading. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 22 objection, the bill is ordered directly to third 23 reading. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Stand at ease 25 now. 2133 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senate will stand at ease. 3 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 4 ease from 5:35 p.m. until 6:00 p.m.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senate will come to order. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you please 9 call up Calendar Number 462. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 462, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 14 Print 3978, an act making appropriations for the 15 support of government. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 24 Calendar Number 462, Senate Print 3978. All 25 those in favor signify by saying aye. 2134 1 (Response of "Aye".) 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 The message is accepted. 5 The Secretary will read the last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 8 act shall take effect April 1st. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 13 the results when recorded. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 would you call up Calendar Number 463, Senate 16 Bill Number 3980. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 18 the negative on Calendar Number 462 are Senators 19 Abate, Breslin, Dollinger, Hoffmann, Nanula, 20 Oppenheimer, Rosado. Senator Abate recorded in 21 the affirmative. Ayes 54, nays 6. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, how 23 did I vote? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Gold, you were recorded in the affirmative. 2135 1 Senator Seabrook, you wish to be recorded in the 2 negative on Calendar Number 462? Okay. 3 The Secretary will read the 4 results again. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 7. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 The Secretary will read Calendar 9 Number 463. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 463, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 12 Print 3980, an act to amend the Environmental 13 Conservation Law, in relation to centrally 14 fueled fleets. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 18 message at the desk? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 23 Calendar Number 463. All those in favor signify 24 by saying aye. 25 (Response of "Aye".) 2136 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The message is accepted. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: 5 Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Marcellino, an explanation of Calendar Number 8 463 has been requested by Senator Oppenheimer. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah. The 10 Governor has proposed in his emergency budget a 11 plan to repeal the clean fuel fleet mandate on 12 owners of heavy - 13 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry, 14 Senator, I don't mean to be impolite but it's 15 hard to hear you. 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I apologize. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Can we 18 have a little order in the house, please? 19 Senators please take their seats, the staff take 20 their seats. Conversation taken out of the 21 chamber. Thank you. 22 Senator Marcellino, for an 23 explanation. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This bill is 25 basically a repeal -- well, not a budget repeal 2137 1 but a postponement of the clean fuel fleet 2 mandate on owners of heavy duty vehicle fleets 3 in the downstate region. If this mandate is not 4 postponed, the DEC is required to issue 5 regulations by May 13th to finalize the whole 6 process by mid-August of going to clean fuel and 7 have all municipalities, school districts, park 8 districts and businesses with trucks that 9 qualify -- that are over 6,000 tons or 6500 tons 10 that qualify, have them converted over to clean 11 fuel. 12 The cost estimated by the Council 13 of School Superintendents, for example, predicts 14 that the law would cost school districts upwards 15 of $200 million per year, a 17 percent increase 16 in statewide expenditures on school district 17 transportation. This would more than consume 18 the Governor's entire proposed school aid 19 increase for the effective reasons. 20 The School Boards Association 21 estimates an initial cost of $400 million for 22 school districts to pay for the necessary 23 infrastructure improvements, that is, fueling 24 stations which currently don't exist. 25 We are asking that in this 2138 1 legislation that we postpone the target date two 2 years. In the interim, we will do a study and a 3 report will be issued to determine the 4 availability of -- let's see. Let's use the 5 exact language in the bill -- "the availability 6 of fuels, vehicles and infrastructure necessary 7 to implement the program, the cost of complying 8 with the program for municipalities, schools, 9 businesses and other potentially affected fleet 10 owners and fuel providers and emission benefits 11 in contribution to attainment of any applicable 12 health standards." 13 The program was initially 14 indicated as part of the state's Clean Air Act 15 which was a duplicate of the federal Clean Air 16 Act program. 17 The federal program has been 18 basically withdrawn and the state's still on the 19 books forced to implement this program by - 20 almost immediately by 1998. The districts 21 involved -- I can give you some specifics on 22 it. I have a thing from the Association of 23 Towns -- a memo that came from the Association 24 of Towns. 25 For example, it says here that 2139 1 the state legislation is required to revise the 2 -- New York's SIP. Absent state legislation, 3 the DEC is required to implement the CFFP 4 effective with vehicle model year 1998. Current 5 DEC regulations promulgated to implement the 6 CFFP requires 50 percent of new heavy duty 7 vehicles to be clean fuel vehicles. Compliance 8 with this regulation will be costly to 44 towns 9 located in the affected area. 10 For example, the town of 11 Hempstead, which is the largest town in the 12 United States populationwise, has 519 vehicles 13 affected -- in the affected weight class. The 14 town purchases 35 new vehicles each year. Under 15 this law, it would have to purchase, you know, 16 over 250 new vehicles this year. The town of 17 Hempstead estimates that the cost to the 18 taxpayers would be $3.2 million to convert their 19 fleet and fueling stations to compressed natural 20 gas in order to comply with the proposed 21 regulations. 22 Similarly, the taxpayers in the 23 town of Eastchester in Westchester County will 24 be affected by the cost of implementation of 25 this program. The taxpayers of the town of 2140 1 Eastchester will spend more than $150,000 to 2 comply with this regulation. 3 The town of Huntington in Suffolk 4 County, which I represent, has 63 vehicles in 5 the targeted weight class and purchases five new 6 vehicles annually. The town estimates that it 7 will cost the taxpayers 1.2 million to convert 8 their fueling stations and 315 million to 9 convert the 63 targeted vehicles. 10 The town of Ramapo has 36 11 targeted vehicles and purchases seven new 12 vehicles each year. It estimates in excess of 13 $200,000 to convert their fleet and fueling 14 facility to compressed natural gas. 15 The key thing is it is extremely 16 expensive. Benefits to clean air are minimal 17 and not tossed aside. We're not throwing aside 18 the Clean Air Act. The bill is a means to the 19 end, not the end. The plan of the clean fuel 20 act was a method, a direction to go. It isn't 21 the only way to go. There are many other 22 methods to attain this act. The study proposed 23 will determine some of them and their viability 24 rather than engaging in a super expensive 25 program for what could be considered 2141 1 questionable benefit. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Oppenheimer. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Would the 5 sponsor yield for a question or two? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Marcellino, do you yield to a question? 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure, 9 absolutely. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Senator, 13 what value do you think -- what will come out of 14 the study for a program that we knew this 15 mandate existed from six years ago. What more 16 do you think a study would produce? 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, the 18 study will, one, let us know if there are 19 facilities available to do this. I understand 20 the law has been out there and the requirement 21 to meet these standards has been there but the 22 fact of life is budgetarywise, these 23 municipalities are not prepared to deal with 24 this. The fact is your school districts are not 25 prepared to deal with this. Your park 2142 1 districts, your sewer districts, anybody or any 2 district that is required to maintain fleets, 3 they're not prepared to deal with this. The 4 infrastructure doesn't exist. Pumping stations, 5 transfer fuel stations don't exist except in 6 very few locations. 7 So practically speaking, those 8 school districts, for example, that would be 9 planning their budgets now for a May vote would 10 immediately have to kick in and take into 11 consideration the needs and the necessity of 12 converting their fleet that exists now, whatever 13 percentages come in immediately, plus building a 14 fueling station if one doesn't exist for them in 15 a nearby area, cost prohibitive. Increasing 16 property taxes on our residents. The cost could 17 be disastrous. 18 A study might be a smart way to 19 go and it might be the way to buy some time so 20 that we can begin to analyze it, know the 21 problems, know where we want to go and how we 22 want to get there and, if possible, get to that 23 goal of clean air which we all desire. Nobody 24 is looking to foul the air. No one is looking 25 to lessen the quality of our air by doing this. 2143 1 We're trying to give our municipalities and our 2 districts an opportunity to plan properly. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Oppenheimer. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: If you 6 would yield again. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Marcellino, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Senator continues to yield. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: It just 14 seems that having had six years to do this in, 15 we -- we probably could have done a study in 16 that period of time and at this juncture, would 17 it not be wiser to move ahead with the program 18 phased in over a long period of time, a slower 19 phase-in? What would a study produce? I think 20 you're looking for a phase-in, a period of time. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I think you 22 just asked me that question two seconds ago, if 23 I'm not mistaken. 24 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: About how 25 about phasing it in over a longer period of 2144 1 time? Starting now, we were - 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We are doing 3 exactly what you're saying. We're giving them 4 two more years. We're saying look at it for two 5 years. You know it's coming in two years. 6 You've got to come up with a proposal. We're 7 going to look at the proposal from the state 8 basis. We're going to ask the DEC to take a 9 long hard look at this proposal and say, is this 10 effective? Is it cost-effective? We're going 11 to spends hundreds of millions of dollars to 12 make this happen. 13 According to the School Boards 14 Association, as I said -- as I read to you in my 15 very lengthy opening statement, upwards of $200 16 million a year for the school districts, 17 17 percent increase in property taxes. I don't 18 think anybody can handle that. I know the 19 districts in my area that I represent, I'm sure 20 the districts that you represent, could not 21 impact and absorb that kind of an expenditure at 22 this point in time. If you're saying, should 23 they have prepared and done this a long time 24 ago? I can't argue with that, but the fact is 25 they didn't and we have to live with the reality 2145 1 now. 2 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I would 3 like to ask another question and that is, was 4 this not the purpose of the bond act that we 5 passed in November to help us with cleaner air 6 and was this not the purpose of the petroleum 7 overcharge funds to help us? Why are we not 8 utilizing those funds? 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: One, the 10 bond act -- yes, the bond act could be used to 11 offset some of the costs but it's only some, not 12 all, and we're not sure what those costs exactly 13 would be at this point in time, anyway. That's 14 part of the problem. We may have some 15 facilities out there that would impact some 16 districts positively. We may not have in most 17 districts that have to construct. The cost of 18 construction in various areas is different. We 19 would have to know. To try to use bond act 20 money and just say, Yeah, we're going to apply 21 bond money off to it would be great but we would 22 be committing money. We don't know how much and 23 we don't know how -- you know, when. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Oppenheimer. 2146 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That, 2 frankly, would be -- as my good colleague down 3 here just reminded me, that would be part of the 4 study and should be part of the study to 5 determine exactly what we need and how much we 6 have to spend and when. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Oppenheimer. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 10 Senator. 11 On the bond, if I may, please. 12 To opt out of the clean air program which man 13 dates upon us a cleaner environment, particular 14 ly in the Senator and my area which is severe, 15 severe non-attainment area, one of the worst 16 areas in the United States, to opt us out of the 17 requirements of the Clean Air Act for our heavy 18 duty vehicles which are spewing pollutants and 19 particulates into the air seems just foolish, 20 foolhardy and I strongly, strongly intend to 21 oppose this. 22 We have had a long enough time to 23 look at this. We have been mandated for six 24 years now and we haven't done it now and we are 25 only postponing it two years more because it's a 2147 1 costly thing -- cleaning up our environment is 2 costly because we have messed it up, and I don't 3 think we ought to be looking at ways of 4 circumventing what is the clean air law for this 5 state. 6 So I will be voting against this 7 and I know the Environmental Planning Lobby is 8 very unhappy with this also. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 Senator Marcellino. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Without 13 prolonging this unnecessarily-- but I would like 14 to just comment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Hoffmann - 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We're not 18 opting out of anything. This is not an opt out 19 of the Clean Air Act. We couldn't do that 20 anyway if we tried. This is a reasonable, 21 responsible approach. It's all well and good to 22 tell a school district that comprises umpteen 23 thousand families, Well, you know, shame on 24 you. You didn't do what you were supposed to do 25 six years ago and we're going to punish you for 2148 1 it and we're going to increase your taxes and 2 raise your fees and cost your district millions 3 of dollars because you were bad people. 4 Now, I don't know about you, 5 Senator, but I can't do that to districts. I 6 don't think we have a right to do that to the 7 districts. We're not fouling the air. We're 8 cleaning the air up. We didn't have the 9 California LEV program in place six years ago. 10 We do now which improves emissions standards. 11 We're working on that system and that's doing 12 better. Our air is getting cleaner down here 13 and we haven't gone to clean air fuel -- clean 14 fuel vehicles. We are not -- and please don't 15 repeat that because it's wrong. It's a flat out 16 misstatement. We are not opting out of the 17 Clean Air Act requirements. We're asking that 18 we do this in an intelligent way and spend some 19 time and some money to study the problem and 20 look at it and give these districts a chance to 21 react in a proper way. 22 You're talking about school 23 districts, towns, cities, businesses, all 24 throughout the state of New York and -- all 25 throughout the state of New York that have to 2149 1 comply and, if we don't do it correctly, we 2 could impact them in a tremendously negative 3 manner and take this very nice upturn we have in 4 our economy and blow it right out the window. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Hoffmann. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. This is 8 a very interesting issue and I -- I had one or 9 two questions for the sponsor. I wonder if 10 Senator Marcellino would be so kind as to yield. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Marcellino, do you yield to a question from 13 Senator Hoffmann? 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: My pleasure. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 18 Marcellino, I know that you chair the 19 Environmental Conservation Committee in this 20 chamber with great passion and your commitment 21 to this particular piece of legislation is 22 commendable, and I too frequently find myself in 23 a position where I recognize that people in my 24 portion of the state or even in some minute 25 segment of the Senate District I represent may 2150 1 differ from a larger mandate imposed upon them, 2 but generally I expect our Environmental 3 Conservation Committee to give us an opportunity 4 to air such an issue in a thoughtful way, and 5 I'm just wondering if you could explain to me 6 the timing with which this measure has been 7 introduced and brought to the floor. I'm a 8 little confused by this. When was this bill 9 first introduced, Senator Marcellino? 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: This 11 particular bill, it's my understanding, was 12 introduced today. It's been part of the 13 negotiations between the Senate and the Assembly 14 and the Governor on the continuing budget 15 resolution that we're doing today. This is part 16 of that program. This is language to implement 17 it. However, as a member, you, of course, know, 18 that there is a bill in committee that I sponsor 19 to do very much the same thing and repeal this 20 act and it's been there for some time. 21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. -- Mr. 22 President, I wonder if Senator Marcellino would 23 yield for another question. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Senator continues to yield. 2151 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Senator 2 Marcellino, you have piqued my curiosity. You 3 say there is a bill in the committee which you 4 chair and I would know this and it's been there 5 for some time. Why would I know this, Senator 6 Marcellino? Has this ever been brought before 7 the Committee? I see Senator Marcellino is 8 conferring with counsel. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We'll get 10 you the bill number, Senator, and we'll make 11 sure you know that the bill was put into the 12 Committee and it's been submitted. It has 13 sponsors and perhaps if you would like to read 14 it, I'll send it to you. 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: It has 16 sponsors? 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Oh, yeah. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Big-time 19 sponsors? 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, heavy 21 weights, anyway. 22 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would Senator 23 Marcellino add one more bit of clarification in 24 the form of an answer? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2152 1 Marcellino, do you want to disclose what the 2 heavyweight means? No, I'm just - 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Besides 4 yourself, Senator Marcellino, to whom was this 5 bill offered for sponsorship? Could you explain 6 that to those other members of the Environmental 7 Conservation Committee who might have enjoyed 8 supporting you in this effort? 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't 10 recall, quite frankly, Senator. 11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 12 Senator Marcellino. I appreciate that. 13 Mr. President, I realize that 14 Senator Marcellino is attempting to clarify on 15 relatively short notice a very complex issue and 16 the fact that he is an excellent reader and was 17 able to carefully digest and articulate the 18 words on a piece of paper handed to him just 19 moments ago, I think is commendable. It is, 20 however, not the mark of good legislation and it 21 is not a sufficient reason for those of us who 22 care about the environment to want to vote for 23 this measure. 24 I have been a member of the 25 Environmental Conservation Committee in the New 2153 1 York State Senate for some 13 years, and I am 2 appalled that a matter of this significance is 3 not even being discussed, much less brought to a 4 vote, within the confines of that committee. 5 Surely we could have sat and had 6 some reasonable understanding of what this 7 measure means but to be forced tonight as we're 8 about to adjourn for several days for religious 9 holidays to be confronted with a measure with so 10 little information is really an affront to our 11 intelligence and to the dignity of the people in 12 this state, and I would hope that Senator 13 Marcellino and the Majority in this house would 14 consider laying this measure aside so that it 15 can be reviewed and voted on in a more 16 thoughtful way. 17 Absent that choice, I will have 18 no alternative, regardless of how meritorious 19 the measure may be, except to vote in the 20 negative on it and I would hope that many of my 21 colleagues would do the same, but that type of 22 action is not what we should be here for. We 23 should be here for an intelligent analysis of 24 what is a tremendously significant environmental 25 question so that we can go home with a clear 2154 1 conscience and say that we have arrived at an 2 appropriate, rather than a political solution. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Gold. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr. 6 President, I'll be very brief, but what is 7 happening here now is symptomatic of something 8 that's been going on in the last couple of years 9 to an extent which we ought to say something 10 about. 11 I do not believe that it is a 12 world of black and white. I think that there 13 are a lot of gray areas and in finding those 14 gray areas, dealing with them, intelligent 15 people have to draw lines and this Legislature 16 has always dealt with some linkage between 17 issues and in most years in our history, the 18 linkage has made some sense. 19 We are now getting into an area 20 with this Governor, who I like, where he makes 21 linkage and this house makes linkage of issues 22 which have nothing to do with one another and 23 this is considered now a good political 24 bargain. You want something, so today we're 25 going to make a linkage because you want 2155 1 something and I need something, whether they 2 make any sense or not. 3 We came into session today at 4 11:00 o'clock. Everybody in this building knew 5 more or less what the agendas were going to be. 6 We wound up standing at ease for a good part of 7 the day while there were negotiations and 8 bickering over things which really don't deal 9 with the major issues that we came to session 10 today to deal with and this is a perfect 11 example. 12 Senator Hoffmann's remarks are 13 right on target. Senator Oppenheimer's remarks 14 are right on target and this is an issue which 15 we should deal with. It's a question of whether 16 there's a delay, how much of a delay, what time 17 delay and that is a significant issue to deal 18 with but it shouldn't be something that gets 19 thrown at us because three men spent most of the 20 day today behind closed doors -- because I don't 21 think there was any open meeting -- discussing 22 what should or should not be part of a debate on 23 budget issues, and I think that the only way 24 we're going to maintain our own sense of dignity 25 -- because every day it's going to be something 2156 1 that affects every one of us on both sides of 2 this aisle -- we have to stand up and say that 3 there are legitimate issues before this 4 Legislature. Let's deal with them without 5 linking in -- and I'm using that in the politest 6 sense -- other issues which are done so in an 7 inappropriate manner. 8 I intend to vote to support 9 Senator Oppenheimer and the comments made by 10 Senator Hoffmann and I will vote in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President, will the sponsor yield just to one 16 question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Marcellino, do you yield to one question? The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I agree with 21 many of the comments made by my colleagues, 22 Senator Hoffmann, Senator Oppenheimer and 23 Senator Gold but, Senator, could you tell me 24 what the current status of compliance is so that 25 I can make some kind of evaluation based on what 2157 1 you tell me that they've made some good faith 2 effort to comply with this deadline and what 3 we're doing is extending a period of time in 4 order to give them greater time so that their 5 good faith effort can reach its conclusion? 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It's my 7 understanding, Senator, the compliance is slim 8 and none and slim just left town. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So they've 10 done nothing to comply knowing that there was a 11 six-year deadline and now we're going to extend 12 it for two years when they haven't shown any 13 good faith to comply with this. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger, are you asking Senator Marcellino to 16 yield to a second question? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am, indeed, 18 Mr. President. I apologize. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's okay 20 because, Senator - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: -- if we 24 were talking about your child or my child who 25 was misbehaving, we would go over and say, You 2158 1 know, you did something wrong and you've got to 2 pay a penalty and maybe you go to your room 3 without television for two hours or you get a 4 little pop on the bottom and you say, Look, 5 don't do it again. That's a bad thing. You 6 can't do that to a school district. You can't 7 do that to a municipality. There's millions of 8 people who are innocent people who have nothing 9 to do with this decision to comply or not to 10 comply. It's bigger than that and I'm sure you 11 understand that. I'm sure Senator Gold under 12 stands that and Senator Oppenheimer understands 13 that, and Senator Hoffmann understands that. 14 I apologize if I was flip 15 before. I didn't mean to be, but the idea is 16 these districts have not got the fiscal ability 17 to comply at the present time. That's why you 18 have a list here, the New York State School 19 Boards Association, the Private School Bus 20 Contractors, the Public -- Car Public Affair, 21 New York Association of Pupil Transporters, the 22 National Association of Pupil Transporters, 23 Petroleum Council, the Association of Towns, New 24 York State Council of School Superintendents, 25 New York Association of Counties, the Empire 2159 1 State Petroleum Association, the Coalition of 2 the Big Five Schools, New York City Legislative 3 Office, all are for this repealer because they 4 don't have the ability, the localities, 5 municipalities and businesses involved do not 6 have the ability to do it now. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I just 8 ask one other -- will Senator Marcellino yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Marcellino, do you yield to another question? 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure, if it 12 would help. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 16 Marcellino, if they don't have the money now, 17 where are they going to find it two years from 18 now to do all this? 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's what 20 the study is designed to help do, Senator. 21 Quite frankly, that's the honest way to answer. 22 This should have been done some time ago. I 23 agree with you. If we're talking about 24 reforming the negotiation process, this chamber 25 passed the reform bill. The Majority over here 2160 1 -- and maybe we were joined by some of you, I 2 don't remember -- but we passed the reform 3 message which would change the process of 4 negotiating budgets. We haven't heard anything 5 from the other chamber. They haven't proposed a 6 thing. I don't mean to be partisan, far be it 7 for me, but the name of the game here is we need 8 the time to look at this thing effectively, 9 efficiently and appropriately to do this right. 10 If you toss it on them, you're going to have a 11 whole bunch of districts and businesses that are 12 going to go, some out of business. Some are 13 going to pick up and move. Some districts are 14 going to be raising property taxes. You're 15 going to have to go home and answer to that and 16 I don't think we want to. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 Just on the bill, briefly. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Dollinger, on the bill. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand 23 Senator Marcellino's passionate argument for an 24 extension of time but it seems to me there are 25 elected bodies that have chosen not to comply, 2161 1 chosen not to start the process of compliance 2 and let's not forget, as Senator Oppenheimer 3 pointed out, why this was done. 4 This is done because there are 5 people who have health problems related to 6 unclear air. That's why this was done. This 7 has been talked about for 20 years and every 8 time we sit down to do something, it's "We need 9 more time. We need more time." It's not just a 10 question of government spending more money. 11 They may have to do that, but think about all of 12 those people who are inhaling dirty air. Think 13 about areas in our ozone that are being 14 depleted. It seems to me that's the reason why 15 it's in place in the first place. To turn our 16 back on it and postpone it again for two years 17 when there's been no effort at good faith - 18 Senator, if you came to me and said they already 19 started to spend the money. They're on their 20 way, I would be more sympathetic to that 21 argument. To say that they've done nothing and 22 now we're going to give them two more years, 23 even though it doesn't affect my region of the 24 state, I think is bad policy. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2162 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson, do you wish to explain your vote? 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 we would like a slow roll call on this. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 12 five members in chamber who would like to? 13 Please signify by standing. I'm counting five. 14 The Secretary will call the slow 15 roll call. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 17 SENATOR ABATE: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 19 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Bruno. 23 (Affirmative indication) 24 Senator Connor. 25 (Negative indication) 2163 1 Senator Cook. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Dollinger. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Gentile. 11 SENATOR GENTILE: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Gonzalez, excused. 15 Senator Goodman. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Hannon. 18 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 20 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 24 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 2164 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Lack. 7 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: Here. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Leibell. 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leichter. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Levy. 17 SENATOR LEVY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Marcellino. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 2165 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Markowitz. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Maziarz. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 7 SENATOR MEIER: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 9 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Montgomery. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Nanula. 14 SENATOR NANULA: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Onorato, to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR ONORATO: Mr. President, 22 I'm going to vote against this bill because I 23 represent a district in New York City that's 24 very, very heavily affected by this bill. I 25 have one of the highest emphysema- and 2166 1 lung-related diseases in the entire city of New 2 York in my district and any further delay in 3 implementing a Clean Air Act on our part is 4 unconscionable. 5 We are now in the process of 6 suing the tobacco industry which we know causes 7 cancer. We certainly know that the emissions 8 are causing lung-related diseases to all of the 9 residents of the cities that are affected by the 10 Clean Air Act and any further delay perhaps may 11 wind up with the state of New York being the 12 recipient of lawsuits claiming the health bills 13 that may have to be paid because of the fact 14 that we have not implemented the Clean Air Act 15 and I am, therefore, voting no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Onorato will be recorded in the negative. 18 Continue the slow roll call. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Oppenheimer. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Paterson. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 2167 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Paterson, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Only to 4 explain that for the reasons stated by Senator 5 Onorato in his explanation and by Senator 6 Oppenheimer in her debate and by the 7 Environmental Planning Lobby which strongly 8 opposes this bill, I vote no. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson will be recorded in the negative. 11 Continue the slow roll call. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 15 SENATOR RATH: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rosado. 17 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 21 SENATOR SAMPSON: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 23 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seabrook. 25 SENATOR SEABROOK: No. 2168 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 6 SENATOR SMITH: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 8 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Stachowski. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford. 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Trunzo. 17 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 19 SENATOR TULLY: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 2169 1 briefly to explain my vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Waldon, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR WALDON: This is a money 5 issue. We're talking about the bottom line of 6 the business community in some form or fashion, 7 and when I read on a daily basis about the 8 warming of the planet and what the ozone layer 9 -- what is happening to the ozone layer, I have 10 to believe that my grandchildren and my great 11 grandchildren deserve a better shake than what 12 we will give them if we were to pass this 13 legislation and it were to become law in this 14 state. 15 So this vote is against the 16 bottom line but for the children, and I vote no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Waldon will be recorded in the negative. 19 Continue the slow roll call. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 absentees. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 25 SENATOR BRESLIN: No. 2170 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Goodman. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Kruger. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Lachman. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator LaValle. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Leichter. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Maltese. 16 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Markowitz. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Montgomery. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Padavan. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Stavisky. 25 (There was no response.) 2171 1 Ayes 31, nays 18. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you call 6 up Calendar Number 464. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read Calendar Number 464. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 464, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 11 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 6545, an 12 act - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 16 message of necessity at the desk? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 21 Calendar Number 464. All those in favor signify 22 by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye".) 24 Opposed, nay. 25 (There was no response.) 2172 1 The message is accepted. 2 The Secretary will read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 would you call up Calendar Number 461. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read Calendar Number 461. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 461, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 19 Print 3979, an act making appropriations for the 20 support of government. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 24 message at the desk? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 2173 1 a message. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 5 Calendar Number 461. All those in favor signify 6 by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The message is accepted. 11 The Secretary will read the last 12 section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 45. This 14 act shall take effect April 1. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: How about 23 Calendar 465. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read Calendar Number 465. 2174 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 465, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 3779, an 3 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in relation 4 to providing payments to certain public 5 employees. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 9 message at the desk? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 14 Calendar Number 465. All those in favor signify 15 by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The message is accepted. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 25 roll. 2175 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Explanation has 4 been asked. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Trunzo, an explanation of Calendar Number 465, 7 Senate Print 3779, has been requested by Senator 8 Gold. 9 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President, 10 this legislation is a post-negotiated agreement 11 between the Public Employees Federation and the 12 Governor's office regarding the agreement 13 between the Governor and PEF regarding the 14 employees of the professional, scientific and 15 technical unit of the state work force to elect 16 to cash in on up to two days pay or two days 17 leave for the fiscal year 1997-98 and also for 18 fiscal year 1988-89. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 20 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 21 (There was no response.) 22 Hearing none, the Secretary will 23 read the last section. 24 SENATOR GOLD: Hold on one 25 second. I'm sorry. 2176 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 would you please lay aside Calendars Number 416, 14 417, 427 and 428. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendars 16 Number 416, 417, 428 and 428 are laid aside for 17 the day. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 19 housekeeping at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 21 no housekeeping. That completes the calendar 22 for the day, Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 would you please recognize Senator Dollinger. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 2177 1 move to the order of motions to discharge. 2 The Chair recognizes Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you 5 very much, Mr. President. 6 I have a motion to discharge at 7 the desk. I would waive its reading and ask 8 that I be heard on the motion. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Dollinger, we'll ask the Secretary to read the 11 title of the motion to discharge to put it on 12 the floor. 13 The Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Dollinger, Senate Print 3318, an act enacting 16 the Assault Weapon Prohibition and Licensing Act 17 of 1997. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 motion is before -- the discharge is before the 20 house. 21 The Chair recognizes Senator 22 Dollinger to explain the motion. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you 24 very much, Mr. President. 25 I also thank the Deputy Majority 2178 1 Leader - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse me 3 just a minute, Senator Dollinger. It's a little 4 noisy in here. We have a lot of members moving 5 around, a lot of staff moving around. Could we 6 settle down and then I think we'll have the 7 appropriate silence for your discussion of the 8 motion. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would just 10 caution the President. I can remember the - 11 wielding the gavel on this debate on other 12 occasions has proved to be costly to the gavel. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger, I have a new gavel at the desk, one 15 that I'm informed is unbreakable. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you 17 very much, Mr. President. 18 I'll be very brief. I know the 19 hour is late. I understand the rules of the 20 Senate and appreciate those rules which require 21 that this motion come before us today, this day 22 before we leave for religious holidays when 23 we've completed our business but, Mr. President, 24 this is a critical moment. This is a critical 25 moment for the people of this state. This is an 2179 1 opportunity to make law, to make history, to 2 make a landmark decision that will protect the 3 people of this state. 4 We already have before us a bill 5 that is the Senate version of a bill that has 6 passed the Assembly to create a state ban on 7 semiautomatic assault weapons and it seems to me 8 that in this pivotal moment, this moment when 9 we've got a chance to make law, we ought to take 10 it. We ought to approve this motion to 11 discharge so that the bill can come before us 12 for debate. 13 I want to tell everyone here, 14 you've heard my arguments in favor of this ban 15 and this motion to discharge before, but let me 16 tell you something that I learned today and 17 something that I'm promising you today I will 18 do. 19 Today I listened to a man 20 describe the death of his daughter on the Long 21 Island Rail Road. Her name was Amy Locicero 22 Federico, and I watched a man put a picture out 23 of his daughter about age 22 to 25 and tell the 24 story of her death, and I promise you one 25 thing. I'm going to find a bill in every single 2180 1 bill that I can find that I can attach this as 2 an amendment to and every opportunity I have to 3 bring this motion before this house. 4 I vow that I will find a way to 5 not only get a debate on the merits of this if 6 this motion fails, but I promise you I am going 7 to find a bill to put this on. I'm going to 8 come back time and time again. I will not let 9 the voice of Jake Locicero still be still in my 10 mind. It's a powerful voice. It's a voice that 11 requires action. He asked for that action today 12 and I will not rest until I can find a way to 13 make this bill law. 14 I urge you to support this motion 15 to discharge. I urge you to vote in favor of 16 the motion because this is the chance -- and 17 don't make any bones about it. I know 18 everyone's thinking, this is just another one of 19 those motions. I'll be able to explain it to 20 everyone. I'm not going to give you that 21 opportunity. I'm going to tell people that this 22 is the chance. The hour is today. The chance 23 is now. It's our time. This is the time to do 24 the right thing. Now is the time to do the 25 right thing. Put this ban in place. Take the 2181 1 streets of this state and make them safer. The 2 police want it. Your constituents want it. 3 They want it done now. Vote for this motion and 4 we can do it now and we can stop the bloodshed 5 on our streets. 6 Please vote in favor of this 7 motion for Amy Locicero Federico. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 9 any other member wishing to speak on the 10 motion? 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 13 President, just briefly on this motion. 14 I certainly want to compliment 15 and applaud my colleague from Rochester for 16 bringing forth this motion and I'm sure, if we 17 could just have the opportunity to debate this 18 -- we have enough members in this house who 19 feel like he does, like I do, like many of us do 20 about the problem that he is addressing -- he 21 wishes to address through this legislation and 22 that is we want to reduce crime. We want to 23 save our young people. We know that having guns 24 in the hands of children is the most dangerous 25 thing to people in this state and the 2182 1 availability and the accessibility of these 2 weapons for youngsters, for people who are prone 3 to participate in criminal activities, is what 4 drives the problem and we know that we are going 5 to be faced -- if we don't do something to stem 6 this tide and to correct this problem, we're 7 going to be faced with a burden, a fiscal burden 8 that the state will not be able to withstand in 9 terms of the attempt to expand and create enough 10 beds so that everyone who is caught with a 11 weapon, everyone who attempts to use a weapon 12 eventually ends up needing a prison cell. We 13 cannot afford that, plus the lives of people are 14 at stake. 15 So let's, for one time, end the 16 history of this wonderful body. Let's have an 17 opportunity to debate the one piece of 18 legislation that will, in fact, without question 19 and without any reservation, will address the 20 issue of crime on our streets and will save 21 lives. We know that this is an attempt to save 22 lives of citizens in our state. 23 So, Senator Dollinger, I support 24 this resolution. I only hope that we are now at 25 the brink at this hour, even though it is late, 2183 1 I'm sure that it's not too late and there's 2 still plenty of time left in this day that we 3 could discuss and debate this legislation if we 4 all agree on this motion to discharge. 5 So I support it and thank you, 6 Mr. President, for allowing me to speak on this 7 motion. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 11 would you note the time for me? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I believe 13 it's about 7:54 -- excuse me -- 6:54. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, the 15 President is always ahead. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: My vision 17 is a little distorted because my stomach is 18 telling me something, Mr. President. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Because I 20 think it would be a good time to note in the 21 record that I would like to thank -- in addition 22 to Senator Dollinger who's fought for this 23 legislation for a number of years and has been 24 very vigorous in his advocacy and made a very 25 fine presentation, I would like to thank the 2184 1 Majority. I would like to thank the Majority 2 for allowing this motion to come before the 3 floor today under the Senate rules. We're also 4 going to have some motions on April 1st and 5 April 2nd which relate to a number of state 6 issues that we feel are critical and policies we 7 would like to be changed. 8 So in this spirit of the holidays 9 and spirit of good will and with greatest 10 brevity, especially with respect to Mr. 11 President's problem, I would like to just thank 12 the Majority. That's really all I have to say. 13 I'm not going to talk for the rest of the 14 session. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I would 19 just ask if Senator Dollinger would yield to a 20 question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Dollinger, do you yield to a question From 23 Senator gold? 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 25 President. 2185 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger, 4 I don't really understand the purpose of this 5 bill. As we stand here now, I have no training, 6 Senator Dollinger, in firearms. I have never 7 taken a course. I have never fired an assault 8 weapon but, Senator Dollinger, I can leave here 9 in my car right now and within ten minutes find 10 a place and another ten minutes own an assault 11 weapon and ammunition and walk out on the street 12 with it, even if I wasn't sober. Are you 13 telling me that if this bill passes, I can't do 14 that? 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's - 16 well, assuming, Senator, that we have a chance 17 to debate it and the Majority of this house 18 passed it -- the Assembly has already passed it 19 -- I'll carry it down to Governor Pataki's 20 desk. He can sign it right there and that's, in 21 fact, the case. If that happens tonight, as all 22 those other bills are making their way down 23 tonight, Senator, by 8:00 o'clock -- by 8:00 24 o'clock, we could actually be in a position 25 where at some time in the future it would be 2186 1 against the law do that. That's correct. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 3 yield to a question? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 5 glad to, Mr. President. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I don't 7 like to admit this in public but, I mean, I 8 don't even have any money in my money clip, but 9 I do have a credit card and if your bill doesn't 10 pass, I think I can take my credit card, my lack 11 of experience, my no knowledge, drive ten 12 minutes and buy an assault weapon. You want to 13 stop me from doing that? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: That's 15 exactly correct, Mr. President. I want to stop 16 that. 17 SENATOR GOLD: One last question, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 20 do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will 22 continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Senator continues to yield. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger, 2187 1 I and many others have heard you and other 2 members of this house debating this terrible 3 disease called one-house bills this year, last 4 year. Did you say that this bill that you're 5 moving to discharge has actually passed the 6 Assembly so that if we handled it and passed it, 7 it would not be a one-house bill; it would not 8 be a showman's piece. It would be something 9 that actually could become law? 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 11 Mr. President. This bill has passed the 12 Assembly. This bill, with 31 votes from this 13 chamber, goes down to the Governor. The 14 Governor of this state -- I would just point out 15 to you, Senator, the Governor of this state has 16 promised to sign a bill banning assault weapons 17 in New York State. So I assume, like all those 18 other promises he made in 1994, he'll keep this 19 promise, sign that bill. 20 Senator Gold, as I said, we could 21 probably be down in his office at quarter after 22 7:00 to have the bill signed. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, if we 24 don't do that, I would be shocked. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2188 1 any other Senator wishing to speak? 2 Senator Abate. 3 SENATOR ABATE: Very briefly. I 4 also stand in support of this motion to 5 discharge. I can't think of a better reason to 6 support this motion than to keep weapons such as 7 these out of the hands of Senator Gold. 8 (Laughter) 9 For that reason, I think 10 Republican and Democrats alike should support 11 this motion to discharge, but seriously - 12 SENATOR GOLD: I thought you were 13 serious. 14 SENATOR ABATE: And even more 15 seriously, these weapons are weapons of choice 16 for drug traffickers and street gangs and 17 paramilitary extremist groups. These weapons 18 are capable of rapid fire. They don't even need 19 to be aimed. They can be sprayed and innocent 20 people are killed. They're not for sporting. 21 These are weapons designed to effectively kill 22 as many people as efficiently as possible. 23 So we have to ask ourselves, 24 Republicans and Democrats alike, what are we 25 afraid of when we keep this bill in committee, 2189 1 not allowing it to be debated? Aren't we 2 letting down our constituents? 3 If you look at the polls, nine 4 out of ten people support sensible gun control. 5 Police and law enforcement throughout this state 6 are begging us to do the responsible thing 7 because they're being outnumbered. They are 8 risking their lives. They can't protect 9 citizens throughout this state because there is 10 not a ban on assault weapons. We talk all the 11 time about being tough and smart about crime. 12 How can we even pretend to be tough about crime 13 if we're allowing proliferation of assault 14 weapons on our street? 15 Let's do the right thing. Let's 16 join together. Let's save other lives by 17 supporting this motion to discharge. If we do 18 that, we will take a giant step forward to 19 making our streets safer. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 Senator Skelos, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 on this procedural motion, I'm going to ask for 25 a slow roll call. 2190 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are there 2 five members in the chamber who are requesting a 3 slow roll call? Please stand. There are five. 4 The Secretary will call the roll 5 slowly. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 10 SENATOR ALESI: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 12 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 14 (Negative indication) 15 Senator Connor. 16 (Affirmative indication) 17 Senator Cook, excused. 18 Senator DeFrancisco. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: To explain my 22 vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Dollinger, to explain his vote. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The 2191 1 opportunity to debate this bill is one we should 2 not pass up. It's one that we have an 3 opportunity now to do. We can make law. Don't 4 -- no bones about it. Here's the chance. Step 5 right up, one for a quarter, your chance to make 6 law. 7 There may be others who want to 8 characterize this in a particular fashion but 9 this is the only chance that we have today to 10 make this bill into law, and I would strongly 11 suggest that everyone vote in favor of this 12 motion to discharge. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. I'm 14 voting in the affirmative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Dollinger will be recorded in the affirmative. 17 Continue to call the roll slowly. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Gentile. 21 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 24 just to explain my vote. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2192 1 Gold, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR GOLD: I want to express 3 my admiration for this to Senator Skelos and, 4 Senator Dollinger, don't feel badly. The reason 5 I'm expressing my admiration for Senator Skelos 6 is because he is a skilled, bright, intelligent 7 leader who knows how to kill an issue in a way 8 which perhaps will be less embarrassing for his 9 party but, Senator, I don't know what we 10 accomplished by that. It is really silliness. 11 If this is an issue where the 12 members of your party believe that they are 13 reflecting their constituencies by voting 14 against this or by holding back the bill, then 15 let them be here and let them put the bill out, 16 proudly cast a vote in the negative, but this is 17 not a nonsense issue. This is one of the 18 serious issues of our time. 19 Senator, I won't go through the 20 history of my buying an AK 47 within ten minutes 21 of the Capitol or buying a Tech 9 in Florida and 22 bringing it to New York and what is going on 23 with guns in America, and I know all the 24 nonsense arguments about guns don't kill people, 25 criminals do, et cetera, et cetera, but if your 2193 1 people believe that, Senator Skelos, let them 2 come to the floor. Let them put this bill out 3 and let's vote it. 4 The one thing I can say for the 5 people on my side who are here and who have 6 stayed, even though everybody knew that at some 7 point today we would handle this motion and some 8 people have left, the only thing I can say to 9 the people who are here and who are supporting 10 it is, God bless you. You understand the 11 seriousness of this issue and you are here to 12 put your money where your mouth is. 13 I vote absolutely in support of 14 this motion. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold will be recorded in the affirmative. 17 Continue to call the slow roll 18 call. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez, 20 excused. 21 Senator Goodman. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Hannon. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Hoffmann. 2194 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Holland. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Johnson. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Kruger. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Kuhl. 9 SENATOR KUHL: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Lack. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Larkin. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator LaValle. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Leibell. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Leichter. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Levy. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Libous. 25 (There was no response.) 2195 1 Senator Maltese. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Marcellino. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Marchi. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Markowitz. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Maziarz. 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 12 SENATOR MEIER: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 14 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Montgomery. 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 19 SENATOR NANULA: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 23 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator 25 Oppenheimer. 2196 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Explain my 2 vote. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Oppenheimer, to explain her vote. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I must be a 6 simpleton because I really can't understand what 7 we're doing here or why anybody would want to 8 put in a civil society such as a non-military 9 society these weapons. I -- it just boggles my 10 mind. It was created for war. It made sense in 11 war. It mowed down the maximum people in the 12 minimum time. I guess I'm not in favor of war 13 but at least that seems to have some usage. 14 I cannot understand what these 15 weapons are -- what purpose they serve in our 16 society and I cannot understand why the other 17 side of the aisle feels so strongly to protect 18 this. 19 We know that the vast majority of 20 the population of the state feels very strongly 21 about banning assault weapons. It's something 22 like 85 or 90 percent. So it can't be 23 political. We know that the police are very 24 strongly supportive of banning these assault 25 weapons. We know that if there is a collector 2197 1 out there who collects assault weapons, that 2 that's -- God bless him. Let him keep them. If 3 he uses them for marksmanship, fine. We know 4 that he ought to be able to keep them but -- as 5 you can see, I'm at a loss for words. I really 6 can't understand what these weapons are doing in 7 a civilian society. 8 I'm voting yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Oppenheimer recorded in the affirmative. 11 Continue to call the slow roll 12 call. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Rosado. 22 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Sampson. 2198 1 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 3 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seabrook. 5 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 11 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Stachowski. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Stavisky. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Trunzo. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Tully. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Velella. 25 (There was no response.) 2199 1 Senator Volker. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Waldon. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Waldon, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 7 much, Mr. President. 8 My colleagues, some of you may 9 have seen a film called The Killing Fields and 10 in that film, weapons that we're talking about 11 banning with Senator Dollinger's proposal, were 12 everywhere. These weapons are really not for 13 target practice. I know better than most 14 because I spent many hours of my life at the 15 pistol range, Throgs Neck in the Bronx, at the 16 pistol range, 69th Regiment Armory in New York 17 City. I traveled around the east participating 18 in pistol matches because I had a keen eye and a 19 steady hand, and I know what these weapons will 20 do. 21 These are not recreational 22 devices. These are killing weapons. They are 23 made to kill and to maim and, if you read 24 anything in the newspapers and magazines which 25 report the incidents of injuries and deaths 2200 1 resulting from having weapons in the home, you 2 see all too often that 75 percent of the people 3 who die are not the burglars but the people who 4 live in those homes, that people who have these 5 devices of havoc sometimes lose their children 6 because they play with these weapons of 7 destruction and we're playing with life when we 8 bend to the will of the National Rifle 9 Association in somebody's bottom line. 10 I hate to revisit this time and 11 time again, but it is somebody's bottom line 12 which is driving this issue in our chamber. 13 These weapons are very costly. Somebody makes 14 lots of money each time one is sold, even those 15 which are sold illegally. It's interesting that 16 on such an important issue, on such a life and 17 death issue, there are so few of us in the 18 chamber. 19 We often talk about our respect 20 for life and we argue abortion issues and when 21 we argue the positions that we take respective 22 to abortion in this state. Why are not all of 23 the members of the Senate here to talk about 24 this issue which also results in death? I think 25 it is a sin and a shame that we are so two-faced 2201 1 about something that is so destructive as these 2 weapons. 3 I would encourage everyone to 4 recognize the genius of Senator Dollinger this 5 time and to support what he's trying to do. 6 I think the moral imperative is 7 that we must vote yes on his proposal, and I 8 vote aye, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Waldon will be recorded in the affirmative. 11 Continue to call the slow roll 12 call. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 14 (There was no response.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 absentees. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Goodman. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Hannon. 25 (There was no response.) 2202 1 Senator Hoffmann. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Holland. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Johnson. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Kruger. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Lachman. 10 (There was no response.) 11 Senator Lack. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Larkin. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator LaValle. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Leibell. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Leichter. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Levy. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Libous. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Maltese. 2203 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Explain my 2 vote, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Maltese, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: I would just 6 like to comment for a moment on the statement of 7 my good colleague, Senator Waldon, referring to 8 the genius of my colleague, Senator Dollinger. 9 I think he bemoaned the fact 10 correctly that the chamber is empty, but I 11 question the genius of putting in a motion to 12 discharge on the Wednesday before Holy Thursday 13 and Good Friday at approximately 7:00 o'clock in 14 the evening and ensuring the attendance of all 15 the Senators who had previously made plans and 16 are on their way home. 17 Mr. President, I vote nay. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Maltese will be recorded in the negative. 20 Continue to call the slow roll 21 call. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Marcellino. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Dollinger, you're out of order. Please sit 2204 1 down. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I understand 3 that, Mr. President. So was the other comment. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Markowitz. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Padavan. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Senator Rath. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Senator Saland. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Seward. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Spano. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Stafford. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Stavisky. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Trunzo. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Tully. 25 (There was no response.) 2205 1 Senator Velella. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Waldon -- excuse me - 4 Senator Volker. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Wright. 7 (There was no response.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 18, nays 11. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 motion is defeated. 14 Senator Waldon, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 16 wish to have my name called to see how my vote 17 was recorded. I believe that's in keeping with 18 procedures of the house. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Waldon is recorded in the affirmative. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Which allows me 22 to speak at this moment. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 24 not correct, Senator Waldon. You're not given 25 the - 2206 1 SENATOR WALDON: That's not 2 correct? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You're 4 not given the floor. Did you wish to change 5 your vote? With unanimous consent, you can do 6 that. 7 SENATOR WALDON: No, I do not 8 wish to do that, Mr. President. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 there being no further business, I move we 11 adjourn until Tuesday, April 1st, at 3:00 p.m. 12 sharp - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to adjourn. Without objection - 15 SENATOR SKELOS: -- intervening 16 days to be legislative days, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- the 18 Senate stands adjourned. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson, do you have an announcement? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. I would 23 like to announce that on Tuesday, April 1st and 24 Wednesday, April 2nd, we will offer the other 25 motions for discharge as is in keeping with the 2207 1 Senate rules as it was just now. 2 The motion for discharge offered 3 by Senator Dollinger was pursuant to the rules 4 of the Senate. It was not Senator Dollinger's 5 choice to raise this now. It was our rule. It 6 comes after the calendar and we will take note 7 of that in the future. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank you 9 for your announcement, Senator Paterson. 10 The Senate stands adjourned. 11 (Whereupon, at 7:19 p.m., the 12 Senate adjourned.) 13 14 15 16 17 18