Tuesday, April 1, 1997

2220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 1, 1997 10 3:05 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2221 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would everyone rise and please 4 join with me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, March 31st. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, March 16 29th, was read and approved. On motion, the 17 Senate adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella, 2222 1 from the Committee on Insurance, reports the 2 following bills: 3 Senate Print 149-A, by Senator 4 Skelos, an act to amend the Insurance Law, in 5 relation to providing for a reduction in rates; 6 3204, by Senator Velella, an act 7 to amend the Insurance Law and the Vehicle and 8 Traffic Law, in relation to giving the 9 Superintendent of Insurance additional powers; 10 3883, by Senator Velella, an act 11 to repeal Section 4227 of the Insurance Law; 12 3888, by Senator Maziarz, an act 13 to amend the Insurance Law and others, in 14 relation to long-term care insurance; and 15 4012, by Senator Alesi, an act to 16 amend the Insurance Law, in relation to making 17 various technical corrections. 18 All bills ordered direct for 19 third reading. 20 THE PRESIDENT: All bills direct 21 to third reading. 22 Reports of select committees. 23 Communications and reports from 24 state officers. 25 Motions and resolutions. 2223 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford 3 moves to discharge from the Committee on Finance 4 Assembly Bill Number 6548 and substitute it for 5 the identical Third Reading Calendar 416. 6 Senator Stafford moves to 7 discharge from the Committee on Finance Assembly 8 Bill Number 6547 and substitute it for the 9 identical Third Reading Calendar 417. 10 Senator Levy moves to discharge 11 from the Committee on Transportation Assembly 12 Bill Number 6546 and substitute it for the 13 identical Third Reading Calendar 427. 14 And Senator Levy moves to 15 discharge from the Committee on Transportation 16 Assembly Bill Number 6549 and substitute it for 17 the identical Third Reading Calendar 428. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The substitutions 19 are ordered. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 22 there will be an immediate meeting of the Higher 23 Education Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 24 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 25 immediate meeting of the Higher Education 2224 1 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 3 may we please take up Privileged Resolution 848 4 by Senator Velella. May we please have it read 5 in its entirety and move for its immediate 6 adoption. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 8 will read it in its entirety. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Velella, Legislative Resolution 848, commending 11 the New York Yankees on winning their 1996 World 12 Champion season; 13 WHEREAS, it is the duty of this 14 legislative body to recognize and pay tribute to 15 those individuals and organizations whose 16 actions and accomplishments have served to honor 17 and benefit the people of the state of New York; 18 and 19 WHEREAS, as reported in the 20 December 30, 1907 Mills Commission, "The first 21 scheme for playing baseball, according to the 22 best evidence obtainable to date, was devised by 23 Abner Doubleday at Cooperstown, New York in 24 1839" and has always been held by New Yorkers as 25 one the state's most notable innovations; and 2225 1 WHEREAS, the New York Yankees and 2 Yankee Stadium have together stood as icons of 3 the sport of baseball, rich in history and 4 prestige, winning 23 world championship titles 5 and 34 American League Pennants; and 6 WHEREAS, in 1996, the New York 7 Yankees have renewed the true spirit of the game 8 of baseball, not only for New Yorkers but for 9 all Americans. 10 The members of the 1996 New York 11 Yankees team embodied the true meaning of 12 sportsmanship, dedication and cooperation from 13 the start of spring training to the final game 14 of the post-season with many members of the team 15 achieving personal and professional triumphs. 16 All of New York watched, waited 17 and wept with Yankees manager Joseph Torre as he 18 skillfully utilized his years of experience to 19 carry his family and his team through a 20 tumultuous season that ended with great personal 21 joy, team victory and the overwhelming support 22 of his extended family of Yankees fans; and 23 WHEREAS, the entire 1996 New York 24 Yankees organization, from George Steinbrenner 25 to the Dancing Ground Crew brought victory and 2226 1 pride back to the "House that Ruth built" after 2 18 years. 3 New York Yankees fans have 4 loyally supported their Bronx Bombers through 5 trial, tragedy and defeat, always knowing that 6 the World Series trophy would once again be home 7 in New York. 8 New York Yankee fans faithfully 9 cheered their team to victory by the tens of 10 thousands in the stadium, individually in their 11 own living rooms and finally by coming together 12 in a crowd of more than three million in the 13 greatest victory parade the city of New York has 14 ever seen in its "Canyon of Heroes." 15 The Yankees organization shared 16 their victory and their trophy with all of New 17 York by placing it in City Hall for all of our 18 citizens to view. 19 The New York Yankees celebrated 20 the 75th anniversary of their first American 21 League Pennant by winning every post-season away 22 game and further amazed the support of baseball 23 by overcoming an 0-2 game deficit to win the 24 World Series in four straight games; and 25 WHEREAS, the date of October 26, 2227 1 1996, when the New York Yankees clinched the 2 World Series title, will forever be enshrined in 3 the hearts and minds of Yankees fans worldwide. 4 The New York Yankees' personal 5 and professional honor and enthusiasm 6 distinguished them as champions, affording them 7 high praise and hope for continued successes. 8 As all of New York prepares for 9 another exciting season of baseball with the 10 great borough of the Bronx once again the home 11 of the reigning champions; now, therefore, be it 12 RESOLVED, that this legislative 13 body does hereby pause in its deliberations to 14 honor and congratulate the New York Yankees on 15 the occasion of their 1996 World Series 16 Championship; and be it further 17 RESOLVED, that a copy of this 18 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 19 to the New York Yankees. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 21 on the resolution. All in favor signify -- oh, 22 I'm sorry. Senator Velella. 23 SENATOR VELELLA: If I may just 24 briefly. 25 Tonight in Seattle, Washington, 2228 1 we begin the quest for the 1997 world 2 championship. The Bronx Bombers, known to some 3 others as the New York Yankees, certainly gave 4 honor to our state. There are three places in 5 this world that are preceded by the definite 6 article "the", The Hague, the cradle of justice; 7 the Vatican, the cradle of religion and the 8 Bronx, the cradle of great state Senators and 9 the World Champion Yankees. 10 I'm sure my colleagues from the 11 Bronx will join me. We're proud to be the home 12 of the New York Yankees, the Bronx Bombers. We 13 hope, with the help of our governor, to be able 14 to keep them there for a long time to come. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 16 on the resolution. 17 SENATOR VELELLA: Open it up to 18 any member that wishes to join. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Madam 21 President. I'm sure all the members on this 22 side would join in this resolution, with the 23 addendum that it took three former New York Mets 24 to help the Yankees win the World Series. I 25 would just like you to know that. 2229 1 THE PRESIDENT: Is there anyone 2 else who would like to speak on the resolution? 3 (There was no response.) 4 The question is on the 5 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 6 aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The resolution is adopted. 11 Senator Bruno. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 13 can we at this time take up the non 14 controversial calendar. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Page 12, Calendar 18 Number 256, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 19 1231-A, an act to amend the Uniform City Court 20 Act and the Judiciary Law, in relation to an 21 acting City Court judge. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 2230 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 267, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 2647, an act 9 to amend the General City Law and others, in 10 relation to the adoption of certain local laws. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 40. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 273, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2202, an 23 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 24 relation to reporting information. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2231 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 10 Leader. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 291, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2011, an 13 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 14 making citizenship document fraud in the first 15 degree and second degree. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the first day of 20 November. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2232 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 295, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an 4 act to amend the Penal Law - 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 8 Leader. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 303, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 11 Print 2451, an act legalizing and validating the 12 expenditure of certain bond anticipation notes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 316, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1747, an 25 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 2233 1 extending the expiration of the provisions 2 authorizing the county of Tompkins. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 11 the results when tabulated. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 2, 13 Senators Dollinger and Gentile recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 327, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 1775, an act 19 to amend the Transportation Law, in relation to 20 regional citizens advisory councils. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2234 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 344, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 3242, an 8 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 9 making permanent the ability of insurers. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 365, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an 22 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 23 cooperation between police agencies - 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 25 please. 2235 1 THE SECRETARY: -- and the United 2 States Immigration and Naturalization Service. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside at the request of the Acting Minority 6 Leader. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 366, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2466, an 9 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 10 population requirements. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 380, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1749, an 23 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 24 the definition of sexually violent offense. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2236 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 382, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 549, an act 12 to amend the New York State Urban Development 13 Corporation Act, the Omnibus Economic 14 Development Act of 1987 and the Economic 15 Development Law, in relation to including firms. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 2237 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 383, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 999, an act 3 to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law, in 4 relation to eliminating limitations. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 384, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2920, an 17 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 18 relation to loan insurance. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2238 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Skelos, that completes 5 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 there will be an immediate meeting of the Crime 8 Victims Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 10 meeting of the Crime Victims Committee in Room 11 332 of the Capitol. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 if we could take up the controversial calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 15 meeting of the Crime Victims Committee in Room 16 332, the Majority Conference Room. 17 The Secretary will read the 18 controversial calendar, beginning with Calendar 19 Number 273, Senate Print 2202, by Senator 20 Padavan. 21 THE SECRETARY: On page 13, 22 Calendar Number 273, by Senator Padavan, Senate 23 Print 2202, an act to amend the General 24 Municipal Law, in relation to reporting 25 information to the United States Immigration and 2239 1 Naturalization Service. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Padavan, an explanation has been requested by 5 Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 This bill, which was debated last 9 year, passed this house 40 to 16, prohibits any 10 locality or the state itself from requiring or 11 mandating that any employee of either the state 12 or its political subdivision not cooperate with 13 Immigration and Naturalization Service when it 14 is determined or believed to be that that 15 individual before him or her is an illegal 16 immigrant. 17 Its primary effect is relevant to 18 the city of New York and something known as 19 Executive Order 124, originally crafted by Mayor 20 Koch and sustained or reaffirmed by subsequent 21 mayors, including the one we have now. 22 The federal government in 23 enacting the Welfare Reform Act stated quite 24 unequivocally, Section 434 of that act, that no 25 state or its political subdivisions shall 2240 1 preclude any individual in said governments from 2 reporting someone who is an illegal immigrant 3 or, in effect, cooperating with INS. 4 This bill would reaffirm by state 5 law and, in effect, would directly overrule 6 Executive Order 124. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 if Senator Padavan would yield for a few 11 questions. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Padavan, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, it's 18 interesting that the executive order was 19 originally authorized by Mayor Koch and, as you 20 pointed out, has been sustained by Mayor Dinkins 21 and Mayor Giuliani. They are mayors who 22 obviously ran on the lines of different 23 political parties and have very different 24 ideologies even from each other. 25 What was the City trying to 2241 1 accomplish through Executive Order 124? 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry. 3 Would you repeat that, please. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm saying 5 when Executive Order 124 was implemented, what 6 was the desire of the mayor and -- which is 7 upheld by the two mayors -- from your 8 conversations with them or with their staff, 9 what was the reason that they wanted to put this 10 executive order into motion in the first place? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I never 12 discussed it with Mayor Koch, to be honest with 13 you, and I may have discussed it with Mayor 14 Dinkins, and I certainly did discuss it with 15 Mayor Giuliani. Their goals are obviously ones 16 that I don't share, to shield illegal immigrants 17 from INS in terms of applying for public 18 assistance, as an example. 19 You may recall last year I shared 20 with this body direct testimony from our Welfare 21 Inspector General who told us unequivocally that 22 there's widespread fraud in our social services 23 system as it relates to legal immigrants and one 24 of the reasons for that widespread fraud, as 25 came out in a public hearing we had, was the 2242 1 inaction -- total inaction of our local social 2 service agency in the city of New York to make 3 any referrals, zero, to INS. 4 So whatever their reasons were, I 5 don't share them and apparently neither does the 6 federal government or the Congress of the United 7 States, and so that brings us to where we are 8 today and where we were a year ago. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 if the Senator would continue to yield. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Senator continues to yield. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm 15 not asking you to argue against your own bill. 16 I'm just asking you if you would have an opinion 17 as to what would have been the public policy 18 that may have been accomplished by having this 19 executive order even though your legislation 20 obviously is designed to eliminate this type of 21 order? 22 What I'm saying is obviously 23 there's some competing values that are at issue 24 here and since there seems to be widespread 25 support for the executive order, what I wanted 2243 1 to find out from you is did you see any 2 relevance at all to issuing it in the first 3 place? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator, 5 beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I 6 don't believe there's widespread support, and my 7 dialogue with my constituents, the few thousand 8 people that I represent, they don't understand 9 it at all, nor do any other of the cities and 10 counties and localities in the state of New 11 York. No other part of the state of New York - 12 you go across the line into Nassau County from 13 the city of New York, as an example, and if 14 someone comes into a social services office and 15 the intake officer, the person responsible for 16 the application that's being submitted feels 17 that there is an illegal immigrant sitting 18 opposite him or her, they have the right to make 19 an immediate referral. Come across that line 20 into New York City and they don't. I've never 21 understood the logic of that but, nevertheless, 22 to answer your question, there is not widespread 23 support and it's now against federal law. 24 Now, the mayor, Mayor Giuliani, 25 has gone into federal court on this issue, as 2244 1 you know. He's attempting to block the 2 enforcement of it. Again, he's wrong. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: If the Senator 7 would continue to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR PATERSON: He yields? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 13 wanted to turn your attention to some of the 14 remarks that were made today in the Daily News 15 by Nicholas Scarpetta who is now the 16 commissioner for what is the consolidated child 17 care agency, the agency for child development. 18 He was talking about a tragedy that we read 19 about in the last few days, the death of a 20 five-year-old, Daytwon Bennett, and he was 21 actually stating that it would be impossible for 22 the agency on its own to singularly investigate 23 all of the situations in which child abuse is 24 derived and he was calling on more assistance 25 from the public and he went as far as actually 2245 1 blaming some of the neighbors who were very 2 sorrowful when they heard of the death of this 3 young five-year-old, that they had been aware of 4 the child abuse for a number of months and had 5 not talked to the appropriate agencies. 6 In any event, one of those 7 neighbors had been a person who was either a 8 legal immigrant who might have been afraid of 9 the repercussions or an illegal immigrant and 10 would have cooperated in spite of the fact that 11 there would have been some personal risk. I 12 think that what Mayor Giuliani's entrance into 13 federal court is about is the fact that agencies 14 such as the police department might be able to 15 win that cooperation without the automatic 16 referral to INS if it's believed that the 17 individual with whom the department is 18 cooperating with is an illegal alien, that there 19 was a greater public good by allowing the police 20 department to investigate and get the 21 cooperation of individuals who might be of 22 assistance in saving lives than it would be 23 necessarily in investigating every single person 24 who might actually be an illegal alien. I think 25 that is what at least the - 2246 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, may I 2 ask what your question is? You asked me to 3 yield to a question. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. My 5 question is, don't you think that would be an 6 apt application of the executive order? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 8 happen to have heard last night on TV, listened 9 to Mr. Scarpetta's comments directly when he was 10 interviewed by the media on this tragic event, 11 and what he said was that any individual could 12 have called the hot line, the '800' number, or 13 made a referral with complete anonymity, 14 anonymously with regard to what was going on in 15 that apartment with that young child, and so the 16 applicability of Executive Order 124 certainly 17 wouldn't have related to that circumstance. 18 Anyone could have made a phone call. Anyone 19 could have called the hot line, called the local 20 police department, called the local social 21 services office, called the mayor, called you or 22 whoever the representative was in that area 23 without revealing their name or anything else 24 and they should have if they were aware it was 25 going on. So I don't see the relevance here. 2247 1 But let me tell you a different 2 story where it was relevant, and I brought this 3 up last year, just to refresh your memory. A 4 young man was arrested for drug selling in the 5 streets of the city of New York. The police 6 knew he was an illegal alien. At that point in 7 time, they were precluded from notifying INS or 8 sharing that information. The young man came 9 before a judge. The judge didn't know anything 10 about his alien status. He was released on his 11 own recognizance and during that two-week period 12 of time, he killed a police officer. 13 Now, if the police department - 14 and we have direct testimony from the police 15 department on this issue. If the police 16 department had made an immediate referral to 17 INS, had been permitted to do so at that time, 18 that police officer would have been alive 19 today. Now, I say "at that time" because since 20 that incident, Mayor Giuliani has revised 21 Executive Order 124 as it relates to an 22 individual in those circumstances. So that part 23 of it can't happen again, but I use it as an 24 illustration to you of where there can be a 25 problem. So the mayor, to his credit, at least 2248 1 acknowledged one fault in that executive order 2 as brought to light by that tragic incident. 3 So, again, I say, your recitation 4 of this tragic event of the young child being 5 abused the other day and the consequences of 6 that abuse really is not relevant to the issue 7 before us. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: If the Senator 11 would continue to yield. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Padavan, do you continue to yield? The Senator 15 continues to yield. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, in 17 raising that example, I was raising the example 18 of public cooperation and I beg to differ with 19 you. It appears to me that you have actually 20 assumed a fact that's not in evidence. You 21 assumed that anyone that would cooperate would 22 do it anonymously and what I'm saying is that in 23 a particular situation where there was a need 24 for public cooperation in any type of a 25 situation, this just being an illustration of 2249 1 one of them, where there would have been a need 2 for more than just the transfer of information 3 but perhaps the testimony of an individual or at 4 least corroboration of it, then it would have 5 been important for the police or whatever agency 6 there may have been to actually have allowed for 7 what would necessarily be a desire not to inform 8 the INS about what the believed status of the 9 witness would actually be. 10 So what I'm saying is rather than 11 the anonymous example, which is the one that you 12 chose to respond to, what about the example 13 where the -- whether it's the police or whatever 14 agency is very well aware of who may cooperate 15 with them and is somewhat restricted by the fact 16 that their knowledge would require an automatic 17 referral to INS, and I ask you that question by 18 acknowledging the defect in the executive order 19 that you pointed out. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 21 repeat what I said before. The reason there was 22 a 1-800 number, a hot line, is to allow people 23 to make complaints or to bring to the attention 24 of authorities child abuse and individuals need 25 not identify themselves. It then becomes 2250 1 incumbent upon the appropriate agency to make an 2 inquiry and investigation of that complaint. 3 So, again, I repeat, your example 4 is simply not applicable, but I would agree with 5 you that public cooperation is an essential 6 ingredient in the enforcement of our laws. I 7 believe that we all have a responsibility. You 8 and I have taken an oath when we are sworn in to 9 uphold the laws of the country in which we live, 10 the state in which we reside. I think any 11 public employee has a similar responsibility and 12 when someone is applying for social services, as 13 an example, and is a law breaker by virtue of 14 being in this country illegally, that individual 15 has a responsibility to ensure that proper 16 authorities are notified. To me, that is the 17 overriding issue here and no mayor or governor 18 or local executive should issue an executive 19 order precluding that level of cooperation. 20 Again, I repeat what I said 21 earlier. Throughout the state of New York, such 22 a vehicle does not exist, and I've heard no 23 examples of a failure of law enforcement, social 24 services or any other public entity in terms of 25 doing their job by virtue of their ability to 2251 1 report a person to INS. 2 You know, we work with the 3 federal government. All law enforcement people 4 work with the federal government all the time. 5 Now, federal cooperation with federal agencies 6 is not a unique thing. It's not something that 7 we have no experience in but to make an 8 exception in this case for these reasons which, 9 in my view, are less than appropriate, makes no 10 sense, and I think the Congress acted wisely in 11 saying very directly that this should no longer 12 be the case. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: A final 16 question, if the Senator would be willing to 17 yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, you 24 said you couldn't think of an example. I'm 25 going to give you an example and ask you to 2252 1 comment on it, and that is simply that there is 2 a crime. The police department comes to 3 investigate the crime. There's an individual 4 who's sitting there very well aware that they 5 are a witness to the crime. The police are 6 right outside. They can go right outside and 7 tell the police that they saw the crime. They 8 can be a witness. This is not anonymous. They 9 can't dial an '800' number in this situation and 10 the reason they don't go outside is because 11 they're afraid that they may be reported. 12 Whether they be a legal immigrant, they're just 13 as afraid of being hassled, or an illegal 14 immigrant -- there would be obvious reasons why 15 they would be afraid of being investigated but 16 the issue here is that they can serve a greater 17 good in this investigation and the police 18 department's hands are tied based on the need to 19 refer this particular individual to INS. 20 This is an example where I think 21 that the greater public good would be served by 22 not reporting the information, and I would like 23 you to comment on it. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, what 25 you're saying is one wrong justifies another, 2253 1 and that type of logic escapes me. 2 If the person is an illegal 3 immigrant, that stands on its own. If the 4 police or any agency, depending upon the contact 5 that individual has with one or more levels of 6 government, is aware of that fact, they have not 7 only an obligation but a responsibility in the 8 law, now the law of the land, to make an 9 appropriate referral. 10 The circumstance that you cite, I 11 can't argue with hypothetically it occurring, 12 but I would suggest to you that that is 13 certainly an unusual circumstance and not 14 something that's found every day. If that were 15 the case, then all the prosecutions going on in 16 our law enforcement jurisdictions in the city of 17 New York, which are enormous in number, would 18 certainly not be happening but the fact still 19 remains, you are attempting to justify a failure 20 of local government, in our case, from enforcing 21 the law on the basis that it might impede the 22 enforcement of another law and to me that's 23 illogical. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Paterson. 2254 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 On the bill, I am going - 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: If the Senator 5 would just bear with me one more, to fully 6 answer your question. 7 Senator, if you look at this 8 bill, you'll see that what we are talking about 9 here when we define the individual not only to 10 be in violation of federal immigration laws, 11 which is what you and I have been talking about, 12 but also to have committed a crime. 13 So the analogy you gave of the 14 person being a witness, under this proposed 15 statute, that person must have also been an 16 individual who committed a crime and so, 17 therefore, there is no option on his part to be 18 involved with the police department. He too is 19 a criminal. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 on the bill. 24 Again, I think that Senator 25 Padavan has assumed a fact that is not in 2255 1 evidence. He is saying that this person has 2 committed a crime. What actually happens when 3 there's a referral to INS is that the individual 4 who is making the referral believes that the 5 particular person in question is committing a 6 crime, and what I find to be a little 7 speculative about this whole thing is that 8 Senator Padavan does not see the logic or reason 9 in something that was supported by individuals 10 who have been elected to run the executive 11 branch of government in New York City since 12 1977. Over the past 20 years, all three of them 13 felt that there were some real problems with 14 this kind of reporting, specifically that it is 15 such a subjective determination and that it is 16 so open to scrutiny and open to mistake that the 17 public policy of having everybody who doesn't 18 speak the king's English or doesn't look like 19 the king necessarily being subjected to this 20 kind of scrutiny when, in many of the instances, 21 their interaction with the agency is not one 22 where they're even the recipient of services or, 23 in many cases, their interactions because they 24 are a victim or a witness that these executives 25 thought that it would be better to issue this 2256 1 executive order to protect New York City 2 residents who are as diversified as we are from 3 this kind of stigma that, unfortunately, is 4 dictating and pervading a lot of conduct in this 5 country right now. 6 There are new regulations that 7 have been implemented starting today that are 8 going to restrict the ability of illegal 9 immigrants to get away with their misconduct in 10 this particular country. There are stronger 11 regulations now on the immigration -- that will 12 be imposed by our national immigration 13 services. We're not going to allow for some of 14 the outside agencies to test individuals who are 15 applying for citizenship in this country because 16 we have found a lot of widespread fraud in the 17 testing and in the implementation of this 18 process. 19 However, in situations where the 20 agency is interacting with citizens and also 21 legal permanent residents for particular areas, 22 to now turn social workers who do not have any 23 training in this particular area and who may 24 succumb to the idiosyncratic behavior that we 25 all are a victim to at times and certainly to 2257 1 take their speculations and their beliefs and 2 turn them into an investigation, in my opinion, 3 is remote to what this particular -- this 4 country's standard of allowing citizens to live 5 and work in a society would be. 6 Now, perhaps if this were behind 7 the Iron Curtain, this might be the appropriate 8 conduct, but this is the United States of 9 America. This is a place where our Constitution 10 does not always restrict an investigation but 11 where we certainly would like to have policies 12 so that we are investigating illegal aliens when 13 there is a threshold of evidence or information 14 that leads us to go in this direction. Just 15 because a person strikes an individual who has 16 never had any experience either in the area of 17 investigating illegal aliens or even in the area 18 of investigating criminals, to have the 19 authority to have this person investigated, in 20 my opinion, chills the atmosphere for all of the 21 agency's operation of government and all the 22 mechanisms that we use to try to serve our 23 constituency. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2258 1 Padavan. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: While I respect 3 Senator Paterson's point of view, I must say to 4 you in the main he's not talking about this 5 bill. 6 Now, for those who may be 7 listening, let me just read the sentence that's 8 applicable here -- two sentences. 9 "No local law, executive order 10 or such other law, order or ordinance shall 11 prohibit any local government officer, employee, 12 agent or agency from identifying and reporting 13 to the United States Immigration and 14 Naturalization Service any person pursuant to 15 federal law or regulation who such agent or 16 agency reasonably suspects to have committed a 17 crime and to be in violation of federal 18 immigration law." 19 So the earlier dialogue we had 20 about child abuse and someone contacting a 21 social service agency, they wouldn't be under 22 this bill, nor the examples that we just heard a 23 moment ago would not be covered by this bill. 24 The person must have been an 25 individual who was suspected of committing a 2259 1 crime and to be an illegal alien. Those two 2 things are inextricably tied together in this 3 proposal. I wanted to make that point very 4 clear because from what you've heard from 5 Senator Paterson, you certainly wouldn't get 6 that impression. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President, just one question to Senator Padavan. 11 Is - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Padavan, do you yield to a question from Senator 14 Dollinger? The Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any 16 such local law, executive order or other such 17 law, order or ordinance which doesn't do what 18 this bill does? Is there any local law or 19 ordinance that prohibits an officer from 20 informing the INS in the event that they believe 21 someone - 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Other than the 23 executive order? 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What 25 executive order? 2260 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: In the city of 2 New York there's an Executive Order 124 which, 3 in effect, as I said in my opening remarks, we 4 are addressing. If that executive order didn't 5 exist, we wouldn't need this bill. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Lachman. 10 SENATOR LACHMAN: On the bill, 11 Mr. President. 12 I would like to echo Senator 13 Paterson's remarks. I am opposed to this bill. 14 I think there is valid reason for Executive 15 Order 124. Whenever you can get three mayors 16 such as Koch, Dinkins and Giuliani to agree on a 17 major issue, then I think you have something 18 that others should agree on as well. 19 I also think that this bill 20 indirectly, Senator Padavan, attempts to blur 21 the line between legal immigrants and illegal 22 immigrants and it's a very, very important 23 line. Legal immigrants are legal permanent 24 residents of this nation and they should not be 25 harassed. 2261 1 Now, I happen to be the son of a 2 father who was a citizen of the United States 3 and a mother who never became a citizen but was 4 a legal immigrant. There are others like that 5 in the city of New York and the state of New 6 York today, and I believe if this executive 7 order is repealed, people such as that would be 8 harassed, and I don't believe that legal 9 permanent residents of the city of New York and 10 the state of New York should be considered 11 second class citizens. 12 So I would oppose this bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 15 Senator Waldon. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. President. 18 I debated this bill last year at 19 length. The things I said then were that I 20 thought it's redundant to do this when we have a 21 federal law governing these situations, and I 22 think that those remarks I made then are valid 23 for this time. 24 I would encourage us to wonder 25 aloud why now are immigrants persona non grata? 2262 1 Why now does this great nation, through its 2 state body, the Senate, begin to put up walls to 3 those who before could come here freely and 4 establish residence, become proud citizens of 5 many of the people who sit in this chamber. Why 6 now? And if it were a case where, if you were a 7 citizen of New York, as in the great Greek 8 Empire, when you were a citizen of a particular 9 city, it gave you the same validity of being a 10 citizen of the nation, then I could see 11 something valid about this argument, but someone 12 who is a citizen of New York City is merely a 13 citizen of New York State and a citizen of the 14 United States. That is the bottom line. Are 15 you a U.S. citizen, not a New York City citizen, 16 not a New York State citizens. 17 So I think we ought to leave 18 those things which are of the federal government 19 to the federal government and let us not meddle 20 in the federal government's affairs. 21 I vote no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 2263 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 5 the negatives and announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 273 are Senators 8 Connor, Gentile, Gold, Gonzalez, Kruger, 9 Lachman, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, 10 Paterson, Rosado, Sampson, Smith, Stavisky and 11 Waldon, also Senator Seabrook. Ayes 40, nays 12 16. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 The Secretary will continue to 16 read the controversial calendar. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 295, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an 19 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 20 making unlawful immigration a Class C felony. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Padavan, an explanation has been asked. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, Mr. 25 President. In 1984, after several years of work 2264 1 and along with the Chairman of the Codes 2 Committee in this house, Dale Volker, and 3 Chairman of the Codes Committee in the Assembly, 4 then Speaker Silver, we passed a Criminal and 5 Civil Forfeiture Act which has served this state 6 well over a period of a dozen years. 7 What this bill would do is 8 include in that forfeiture statute individuals 9 who are, in effect, smugglers of illegal aliens, 10 seizing their assets and certain other actions 11 be taken against such individuals and it's 12 patterned after the original forfeiture law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 15 Senator Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 17 President, is this Print Number 295? Is this 18 295, Mr. President? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 20 We're on Calendar Number 295, Senator 21 Dollinger. It's Senator Padavan's bill, Senate 22 Print 2223. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would Senator 24 Padavan just yield to a couple of questions, Mr. 25 President? 2265 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 4 Padavan, is this -- this offense you seek to 5 create, isn't this similar to an offense that 6 already exists under federal law? Isn't it 7 currently against the law to be involved in the 8 transportation of people under INS? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: The federal 10 government? I believe so. I believe the 11 federal government has this authority. The only 12 thing is they end up with the assets. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me, 14 Mr. President. I didn't hear the last part of 15 that. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think your 17 question is does the federal government have 18 this authority. I believe they do but there 19 they would end up with the assets. Under this 20 statute, we would. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Is 22 that -- through you, Mr. President. Is that the 23 only significant difference between the two 24 statutes, who actually ends up with the assets? 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: It also 2266 1 involves our district attorneys who have been 2 very energetic and very enthusiastic about 3 applying our criminal forfeiture and forfeiture 4 laws that we have. I, therefore, feel that they 5 would be more than happy to embrace this as 6 well. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 8 you, Mr. President. This creates concurrent 9 jurisdiction between the fed's who have the 10 ability to make these arrests and - 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Similar to drug 12 interdictions. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I guess 14 that's my final question, Mr. President. What's 15 the difference between this and a ban on assault 16 weapons in which the federal government has the 17 same authority to regulate those assault 18 weapons, in fact, has done that and my bill 19 which we've debated here it this house, which we 20 tried to debate last week which would have the 21 same ability and create the same benefits that 22 you talk about, creating local prosecutions, 23 giving the prosecutors -- is it analogous to 24 that same - 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: This is a 2267 1 criminal forfeiture law and asset seizure. I'm 2 not sure your bill had anything to do with that. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. But 4 it's the same theory, is it not, that - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Dollinger, are you - 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 8 Dollinger, I'm not here to enter a dialogue with 9 you about theories. Ask me a question about the 10 bill and I will be more than happy to answer it. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: You're using 12 the same analogy - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger, excuse me. We have a lot of noise 15 going on in the chamber. Just a minute. 16 Senator Padavan, do you continue 17 to yield? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senator continues to yield. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The analogy 22 you use in support of state jurisdiction in this 23 statute is the same analogy that I have used in 24 state jurisdiction for the support of assault 25 weapons. 2268 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 2 didn't use an analogy. I answered your 3 question. You said -- your question, if I may 4 restate it, was does the federal government have 5 currently the ability to seize assets used for 6 smuggling and I said, yes, they do. However, 7 under this statute, we would end up with the 8 assets, as we do today in other areas of 9 criminal and civil forfeiture. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Could I ask 11 one other question, Mr. President? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senator continues to yield. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Isn't that 18 the same analogy that you use in support of our 19 exercise of concurrent jurisdiction under this 20 area of the law; isn't that the same argument 21 that I have used for concurrent jurisdiction in 22 banning assault weapons? You heard me argue 23 that on the floor. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, again, 25 this is not an analogy. What I gave you is a 2269 1 statement of fact. You asked a very direct 2 question. I gave you a very direct answer. 3 There is no analogy. There's nothing there that 4 can be -- need be extrapolated. It's a very 5 direct question. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Again 7 through you, Mr. President. Can I assume that 8 the answer to my question is no or it's yes? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: It's neither, 10 Senator. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: So it's 12 not analogous. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. I'm not 14 answering your question because your question 15 doesn't make sense, at least not to me. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Are you 17 asking Senator Padavan to continue to yield? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 19 President. I have a question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 21 me, Senator Dollinger. 22 Senator Padavan, do you continue 23 to yield? Senator Padavan, do you continue to 24 yield to Senator Dollinger? 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: One more 2270 1 question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senator yields for one more question. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll simply 5 ask the same question, Mr. President. Is it 6 analogous -- the argument you make in favor of 7 our exercise of concurrent jurisdiction in this 8 instance, is it or is it not analogous to the 9 same argument that I have made for concurrent 10 jurisdiction in banning assault weapons? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: You asked me 12 for a definitive answer. No. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 That's all I was looking for. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President, just to be heard on the bill for one 20 second. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Dollinger, on the bill. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I voted for 24 this bill in the past, Mr. President. I'm going 25 to vote for it again and I'm going to vote for 2271 1 it because it is exactly analysis. I disagree 2 with my colleague from Queens. I think it's 3 exactly analysis -- analogous to the analysis 4 that I have used in trying to ban assault 5 weapons, and that is we have the ability to 6 exercise concurrent jurisdiction with our 7 federal brethren. We have the ability in the 8 interests of this state for the exact reason 9 that Senator Padavan described, which is we have 10 enthusiastic prosecutors and we would like to 11 get the assets ourselves. 12 The same thing is true with 13 assault weapons. We have enthusiastic 14 prosecutors. They would like the power to 15 enforce an assault weapon ban against the people 16 in this state. They enforce 80 percent of the 17 crimes in this state. The power that Senator 18 Padavan wants to give to our prosecutors in this 19 state involving illegal transportation of aliens 20 is the same power I would like to give them to 21 ban assault weapons. 22 It is analogous. I disagree with 23 Senator Padavan. The logic seems to be used 24 when it helps one's position in this house. 25 When you try to use the same logic, it's somehow 2272 1 considered verboten. I don't quite understand 2 it, but that seems to be the way we do things 3 here. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect on the first day of 8 November. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 13 the negatives and announce the results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 295 are Senators 16 Gonzalez, Markowitz, Montgomery, Sampson, 17 Seabrook, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 49, nays 7. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 The Secretary will continue to 21 read the controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 365, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an 24 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 25 cooperation between police agencies and the 2273 1 United States Immigration and Naturalization 2 Service. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Padavan, an explanation of Calendar Number 365 6 has been requested. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: You've got to 8 like this one. Here's a person that's been 9 arrested. He's in jail and then we say the 10 police department must cooperate with INS. Now, 11 what could you possibly see wrong with that? 12 That's the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 I have to answer that question. 18 First of all, I liked the last 19 bill, Senator. I voted for it. It frightens 20 me, but I did vote for it. If the Senator would 21 yield for a question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Padavan, do you yield? The Senator yields. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the 25 issue at hand is that when an individual is 2274 1 arrested, I want to know what it is that would 2 cause the arresting officers or the personnel to 3 make the determination that there should be a 4 referral to the Immigration and Naturalization 5 Service and, in answering that question, you 6 might also answer for me, what is the case if 7 the basis for the arrest is never substantiated? 8 In other words, wouldn't this be a way to 9 actually investigate possible illegal aliens, to 10 just arrest someone on some charge, you know? 11 Perhaps the charge is not sustained but by that 12 time you have reported them and if you're 13 correct, you have found an illegal alien. If 14 you're not correct, then you have now put an 15 innocent person into the jeopardy of not only 16 having been arrested but also having been 17 investigated when, in fact, they were in this 18 country legally. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think the 20 first part of your question is what would lead 21 them to believe this person who committed a 22 crime, was arrested, is an illegal immigrant. I 23 believe that was the first part of your 24 question. Lack of possession of proper 25 documents of any kind, possession of a forged 2275 1 driver's license, as an example, a variety of 2 things that investigators would be most equipped 3 to define in more detail than I but obviously 4 ones that we're aware because we read about them 5 all the time. 6 We had a scandal a year ago of 7 some people who were working for our motor 8 vehicle bureau who had been selling false 9 driver's licenses and automobile registrations 10 by the cart full, hundreds of them. Obviously 11 they were going to people who were up to no 12 good. So we know it happens. That the police 13 become aware of that, that obviously is an 14 indicator. 15 Now, the second part of your 16 question -- the second part of your question, I 17 think -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- was that 18 the police department might use this as a reason 19 to go around arresting people simply to 20 cooperate or to somehow make referrals to INS. 21 Senator, you know, how do I 22 answer that question? It's silly to think that 23 the police department of the city of New York is 24 going to run around the city gobbling up 25 individuals on street corners, arresting them, 2276 1 keeping in mind there's such a thing as false 2 arrest, no matter who you are and placing 3 themselves in jeopardy and having to explain to 4 an assistant district attorney what that 5 person's doing in the lockup, I mean, I think 6 that's improbable, and I'm being gracious and 7 kind when I say that. I think it's impossible 8 to consider that type of eventuality. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 12 if the Senator would continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Padavan, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, do 19 you think it is possible that anything other 20 than these issues that you're raising, for 21 instance, lack of possession of documents, that 22 could happen to anyone that would get arrested 23 at some point, possession of a forged driver's 24 license where you just cited an example of a 25 driver's license forgery ring that was operating 2277 1 in the state. They weren't operating that way 2 because they were illegal aliens. They acted 3 that way because they were criminals. 4 So what I'm saying to you is what 5 connects this evidence that's obtained to the 6 suggestion that we're dealing with an illegal 7 alien? Is it not possible, Senator, that the 8 characteristics of certain individuals in the 9 state who actually are not only not illegal 10 aliens but legal permanent residents and 11 citizens, that those features or those 12 attributes to their personalities and character 13 might just bring them a greater opportunity to 14 be investigated because of the fact that they 15 have characteristics that would be similar to 16 those people who are illegal aliens? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: The goal and 18 the basic presumption, Senator, that the police 19 department of the city of New York makes arrests 20 based on characteristics, I don't accept that 21 notion at the outset. Therefore, the rest of 22 your question doesn't make sense. 23 The police department does not 24 make arrests based on individual character 25 istics, not in the city of New York. Otherwise 2278 1 we would need 50 times the jail space we have. 2 They make arrests when someone commits a crime. 3 Now, once in possession of that individual, they 4 determine, through their investigation, by 5 virtue of examples we gave before, false ID, 6 lack of ID of any kind, that this individual 7 could well be an illegal alien to make an 8 inquiry to INS. If it turns out the person is a 9 legal immigrant, then that's the end of it, but 10 if he or she is not, then certainly we want to 11 see that federal action is taken. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 15 I want to thank Senator Padavan to -- for his 16 answers to all of the questions on the three 17 bills that a few of us have asked and on the 18 bill, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson, on the bill. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 unfortunately if a person is brought before INS 23 and is investigated and there are enough cases 24 of this type of situation occurring, I don't 25 think that is the end of it. I think it may be 2279 1 the end of it as far as law enforcement is 2 concerned, but I don't think it's the end of it 3 in terms of this person's citizenship in this 4 country or their right to be in this country 5 legally or perhaps their ability to interact 6 with other agencies and methods of employment in 7 this particular country. 8 I think that what happens when 9 you have this type of circumstance where we are 10 investigating individuals or being speculative 11 in our approach to these investigations is that 12 inevitably we have an atmosphere which is much 13 different for many individuals who are living in 14 this country, whose taxpayer dollars provide the 15 broad revenue basis that is bringing us to this 16 chamber today but for whom special treatment is 17 meted out and it's not special treatment that 18 inures to their benefit but rather to their 19 detriment because they may look like, they may 20 sound like or, for some reason in the subjective 21 mind of the individual, in some way resemble 22 individuals who are thought to be illegal 23 aliens. At that point when a person is arrested 24 and they don't have identification or they have 25 what appears to be a fraudulent driver's license 2280 1 -- there are many citizens in this state who 2 the first thought of whether or not they would 3 be an illegal alien would never even come to the 4 arresting officers' minds but unfortunately as 5 it is a human frailty, there are those who live 6 in this state who would automatically excite 7 that presumption even if they are not being 8 arrested and even if they are not committing a 9 crime, and as long as that is the case -- and 10 sadly it is the case -- I think that this type 11 of legislation which furthers the delineation - 12 and I think what Senator Lachman said earlier, 13 blurs the distinctions of citizenship versus 14 non-citizenship are not the best policy for this 15 state to adopt at the time. 16 I can appreciate the goal that 17 Senator Padavan is trying to achieve and 18 certainly in one of the previous bills he 19 pointed out a very good example which I had to 20 acknowledge that would impede police 21 investigations and the apprehension of 22 criminals, but when it comes to the general 23 policy that the conglomeration of these bills is 24 eliciting from this chamber, I don't think it's 25 one that would conform to the principles that 2281 1 certainly were in the minds of those who drafted 2 our state Constitution and those who here today 3 are trying to uphold it. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Waldon, did you wish to speak on the bill? 6 SENATOR WALDON: Yes, Mr. 7 President. I'm sorry. I thank you for the 8 recognition. 9 Briefly on the bill. I wish it 10 were true that all arrests made are other than 11 subjective. Criteria to make an arrest for a 12 police officer is he has reasonable cause to 13 believe a crime has been committed, is being 14 committed and the person he's about to arrest 15 may have had something to do with their crime. 16 That's purely subjective, and I think that it is 17 a danger for us as a state to put a layer on the 18 already ominous powers of the police which will 19 motivate them to further stop people who don't 20 look like them. That's the key ingredient to 21 all of this. They don't look like the cop. 22 If the officer sees someone who 23 is of a different color, a different hue, then 24 the question may pop into his or her mind, are 25 you an alien? Because if someone comes from 2282 1 those Eurocentric places which look like the 2 majority of the police officers, unless the 3 person opens his or her mouth, there would be no 4 reason to suspect that that person might be an 5 alien, an illegal alien. 6 I just think it doesn't make 7 sense to give officers who already are very 8 qualified and who are functioning well in their 9 positions another reason to make a mistake and 10 to treat people in a disparate fashion. 11 I see it evidenced at City Hall 12 in some degree because the mayor is very 13 aggressive and assertive in his quality of life 14 issues, and I don't think that we in New York 15 State's Senate should also incorporate something 16 similar to his quality of life in our way of 17 doing things by giving our police officers a 18 reason to make humongous mistakes. I would 19 encourage all of us to vote against this. 20 Thank you very much, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 24 (There was no response.) 25 Hearing none, the Secretary will 2283 1 read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 8 the negatives and announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 10 the negative on Calendar Number 365 are Senators 11 Connor, Gold, Gonzalez, Markowitz, Montgomery, 12 Paterson, Sampson, Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and 13 Waldon. Ayes 45, nays 11. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 18 believe that completes the controversial 19 calendar, and if we could return to reports of 20 standing committees, I believe there's a report 21 of the Crime Victims Committee at the desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 23 return to the order of reports of standing 24 committees. 25 I'll ask the Secretary to read 2284 1 the report from the Crime Victims Committee. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio, 3 from the Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and 4 Correction, reports the following bills: 5 Senate Print 246, by Senator 6 Johnson, an act to amend the Executive Law and 7 others, in relation to personal injury awards; 8 932, by Senator Maziarz, an act 9 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 10 eligibility to receive awards; 11 1587, by Senator Volker, an act 12 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 13 written statement; and 14 3464, by Senator Velella, an act 15 to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 16 enhancing the fair treatment standards for crime 17 victims. 18 All bills ordered direct for 19 third reading. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 21 objection, hearing no objection, the bills are 22 ordered directly to third reading. 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 25 housekeeping at the desk? 2285 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's 2 no other housekeeping, Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 there being no further business, I move we 5 adjourn until Wednesday, April 2nd, at 11:00 6 a.m. sharp. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 8 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate 9 stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday - 10 note the time change -- at 11:00 a.m. 11 Senator Paterson, do you have an 12 announcement? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes, Mr. 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Paterson for an announcement. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 18 there will be an immediate conference of the 19 Minority in the Minority Conference Room. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 21 conference of the Minority -- open conference - 22 in the Minority Conference Room, Room 314 in the 23 Capitol. 24 (Whereupon, at 4:17 p.m., the 25 Senate adjourned.)