Tuesday, April 8, 1997

2479 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 8, 1997 11 11:05 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 2480 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would everyone please rise and 4 join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed. ) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, April 7th. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Friday, April 4, 16 was read and approved. On motion Senate 17 adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 Motions and resolutions. 25 Oh, the Secretary will read a 2481 1 substitution. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 25, 3 Senator Leibell moves to discharge from the 4 Committee on Housing Assembly Bill Number 2931 5 and substitute it for the identical Third 6 Reading Calendar 504. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution is 8 ordered. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 11 at this time may we please adopt the Resolution 12 Calendar except Resolution Number 907. 13 THE PRESIDENT: There is a 14 privileged resolution -- all those in favor of 15 adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by 16 saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The Resolution Calendar is 21 adopted except for 907. 22 There is a privileged resolution 23 at the desk. The Secretary - 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 25 if we could have the title read of Senator 2482 1 Marcellino's privileged resolution, and then I 2 move for its immediate adoption. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 4 will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Marcellino, Legislative Resolution honoring 7 "1 in 9:" The Long Island Breast Cancer 8 Coalition upon the occasion of sponsoring their 9 Annual Walk-A-Thon to be held April 13, 1997. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 11 on the adoption of the resolution. All those in 12 favor signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Opposed nay. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 The resolution is adopted. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 18 I believe there's a privileged resolution at the 19 desk, by Senator Gentile. I ask the title be 20 read and move its immediate adoption. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Gentile, Legislative Resolution honoring Joseph 23 Lew of Intermediate School 239, The Mark Twain 24 School, upon his designation as New York State's 25 Third Place Winner in the U.S. Savings Bonds 2483 1 1997 National Student Poster Contest. 2 THE PRESIDENT: All those in 3 favor of adopting the resolution signify by 4 saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed? 7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe there 8 is another privileged resolution - 9 THE PRESIDENT: We haven't 10 finished this one yet. Any ayes? 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The resolution is adopted. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, I believe 16 there's another privileged resolution at the 17 desk, by Senator Marcellino. I ask the title be 18 read and move its immediate adoption. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 20 read. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Marcellino, Legislative Resolution honoring 23 James C. DeBois upon the occasion of his 24 designation as recipient of the Promise of Youth 25 Award by the Suffolk County Girl Scout Council, 2484 1 Incorporated. 2 THE PRESIDENT: All those in 3 favor of adopting the resolution signify by 4 saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The resolution is adopted. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 11 other -- is there any other housekeeping at the 12 desk at this point? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Not at this point. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Then I ask that 15 we have the reading of the non-controversial 16 calendar. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 18 will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 266, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2226, an 21 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 22 relation to urban development action area 23 projects. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 25 section, please. 2485 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 Lay it aside, please. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 298, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3069, an 7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 8 relation to the defense of guilty but mentally 9 ill. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside, 11 please. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 13 please. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 309, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 231, an 16 act to amend the Social Services Law and the 17 Workers' Compensation Law. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 19 please. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 372, by Senator Levy, Senate Print Number 598, 22 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 23 relation to increasing the penalties for 24 aggravated unlicensed operation. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 2486 1 section, please. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 3 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 4 November. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 374, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 923, an act 12 in relation to authorizing the Commissioner of 13 Transportation and others to develop and 14 implement. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 16 section, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 406, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3001, 2487 1 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 2 proposing an amendment to Article VI of the 3 Constitution. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 6 please. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 410, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 2733, an act 9 to amend the Soil and Water Conservation 10 Districts Law, in relation to the establishment 11 of recreational use programs. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 13 section, please. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect June 1st. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 432, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3139, an 23 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to notice 24 of an organization meeting to be given to fire 25 district officers. 2488 1 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 2 section, please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 440, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1143, an 12 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 13 including the intentional preventing of hospital 14 emergency department personnel. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 16 section, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 19 November. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 24 passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2489 1 441, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1467-A, an 2 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the 3 Family Court Act and the Penal Law, in relation 4 to crimes involving firearms. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 6 section, please. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 8 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 9 November. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill's 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 443, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 1593, an 17 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 18 including court officer and senior court officer 19 within the scope of aggravated harassment. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 21 section, please. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 24 November. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2490 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 458, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3511, an act 7 authorizing the State University of New York to 8 lease and contract for the design and 9 construction. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 11 section, please. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 18 passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 480, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 1981, an 21 act to amend Chapter 465 of the Laws of 1994 22 amending Chapter 285 of the Laws of 1891. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 24 section, please. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2491 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 6 passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 481, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2654. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 11 please. 12 That completes the 13 non-controversial calendar. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 15 if we could take up the controversial calendar. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 17 read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 266, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2226, an 20 act to amend the General Municipal Law. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 23 section, please. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 2492 1 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 5 passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 298, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3069, an 8 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 11 Madam President. 12 At the outset, I'd like to share 13 with you that this bill that is now before us 14 that has on a number of other occasions passed 15 this house, is supported by the New York State 16 Law Enforcement Council which, as you know, is 17 comprised of the district attorneys of the 18 state. It is supported by our Attorney General, 19 and it is supported by his predecessor, Bob 20 Abrams. It's supported by the New York State 21 Association of Chiefs of Police, the New York 22 State Sheriffs Association, the Criminal Justice 23 Board of the city of New York and the Citizens 24 Crime Commission. 25 The bill deals with a very, very 2493 1 difficult area in our law, one that relates to a 2 number of aspects of mental incapacitation 3 identified as being present during the act of 4 committing a crime. There's a long history to 5 it, dates back to England at the Patton case in 6 the 1800s, late 1800s, and has been the basis 7 for legislative enactment in a number of states 8 and as a matter of fact 19 states currently have 9 the statute on their books. The first state to 10 have adopted it was Michigan in 1975. There are 11 now 19 states, including Pennsylvania, 12 California, Illinois, Michigan, Vermont and many 13 others, and most of those states if not all of 14 them have had this statute on their books for 15 well over a decade. 16 What we provide for in the law is 17 an opportunity for an individual who has 18 committed an act of violence, a crime, to first 19 be identified as having some degree of mental 20 illness and then to be given the opportunity to 21 enter a plea of guilty but mentally ill. 22 Now, if convicted, that person 23 would - 24 THE PRESIDENT: Could we have it 25 quiet, please, so Senator Padavan can be heard. 2494 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: If convicted, 2 that person would end up in one of our state 3 prisons, but he would be mandatorily required 4 that he or she receive psychiatric care. In 5 addition, should that person be paroled, follow 6 up psychiatric care would be required as well. 7 Now, juries are frequently torn 8 in many cases. They recognize there's some 9 degree of mental instability as a contributing 10 factor, but they also realize that that 11 individual who pulled the trigger that took the 12 life, killed or maimed or whatever, knew that 13 the act itself would result in the injury or 14 death. The most recent case that we all know, 15 brought up by the media, occurred in the state 16 of Pennsylvania, the duPont heir killed 17 someone. He was found guilty but mentally ill. 18 He is now in state prison in that state 19 receiving mental health care, but also serving a 20 sentence. Justice did prevail, and I think we 21 should have this opportunity in New York State. 22 Now, let me close by saying what 23 this bill does not do. It does not eliminate 24 those statutes that relate to acquittal by 25 reason of insanity, nor does it eliminate a 2495 1 person's ability to plead incompetent to stand 2 trial, but it does provide an alternative so 3 juries could have one should they want to use it 4 in these cases. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 7 much, Madam President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I'm sorry, 9 Senator Paterson. Would you like to yield to 10 Senator Paterson just for a minute. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 12 protocol in the Democratic Conference, it would 13 be my honor and privilege to yield to the 14 village of Harlem's most distinguished citizen, 15 Senator Paterson, Paterson with one "t". 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, 17 Madam President, I was going to yield to Senator 18 Waldon, but after that build-up, it would be so 19 anti-climatic that I guess I'll just ask my 20 couple of questions and go on to Senator Waldon, 21 if Senator Padavan would yield for a question. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan, 23 would you yield for a question? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Sure. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, there 2496 1 were a number of cases where individuals were 2 either found not guilty by reason of insanity or 3 as is the case in New York not responsible by 4 reason of mental disease or defect, and in these 5 types of cases, the defendant was then civilly 6 committed. At a certain period of time after 7 the civil commitment, the -- the defendant's 8 history was not always known to the psychiatrist 9 and at least in some cases back historically 10 there's a feeling that the defendants will now 11 be the individuals who slip through the cracks 12 and actually wind up back out in the public. 13 Would it be fair to say that this is one of the 14 issues that the legislation that you're 15 proposing addresses? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: To the extent, 17 we have examples of many individuals who have, 18 as you put it, slipped through the cracks. Just 19 the most recent one was a 1985 one, an 20 individual beat his mother to death, ended up in 21 a psychiatric center, and a matter of weeks 22 thereafter after getting grounds privileges, he 23 was gone. I don't know if he's been found yet. 24 The question here of -- is 25 that - 2497 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Is that the 2 Rosa case and it happened in Queens, didn't it? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: O.K. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: But there are 6 many other examples of that in different parts 7 of the state where in the view of many 8 prosecutors, Attorney General, other people I 9 mentioned earlier, justice was not served nor 10 was society, given the level of protection 11 against certain individuals who, as you put it, 12 slipped through the cracks. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 It was the issue of Alvaro Rosa, 16 who killed his mother with hedge clippers, I 17 believe, in 1983 and was found not responsible 18 by -- not responsible by reason of mental 19 disease or defect in 1985, and then a few weeks 20 later wound up actually leaving the facility 21 because the individual that was supposed to be 22 watching him didn't know that this was a civil 23 commitment due to a finding in a criminal court 24 matter, and this can be a very serious issue 25 after a Supreme Court case Jackson v. Indiana 2498 1 which was passed about 15 years ago which 2 allowed for this particular civil commitment. 3 The reason that I asked the 4 original question was to ask this question, 5 Senator Padavan, if you'd continue to yield. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: And the 8 question simply is, since in New York State we 9 don't really speak to the guilt or innocence of 10 the defendant, as had been the case in these 11 other states, and that we used the finding of 12 not responsible, do you think that this 13 legislation is actually necessary or would it 14 really be that we've got to change our policies 15 and procedures with respect to the housing of 16 what we would understand to be dangerous people, 17 whether or not they would be culpable under the 18 MacNaughton rule or under any other kind of 19 finding relating to their psychiatric problem? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think - 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: I think we must 23 do both, Senator. The fact still remains under 24 a civil commitment, as you know, no matter what 25 the acts may have been, that if that individual 2499 1 is deemed cured, no longer mentally incompetent, 2 and we've had some cases -- we had one of a 3 police officer who killed a young man, was found 4 mentally incompetent, ended up being in a civil 5 commitment at a hospital, happened to be in my 6 District, Montefiore. Seven months later he was 7 cured, according to the psychiatrist, and he was 8 out. So I don't believe that that's 9 appropriate, nor do I believe it's justice. 10 So I think changing the law as 19 11 other states have done to the extent of 12 providing this alternative does not undermine 13 all of the other options that currently exist. 14 We acknowledge that there are individuals who 15 are truly incompetent and should not stand trial 16 on that basis. They're individuals whose mental 17 level of incapacitation or level of retardation 18 is such that they truly don't know the conse 19 quences of their act. 20 I guess the most famous example 21 in literature was Lenny in "Of Mice and Men". 22 Certainly didn't know when he was squeezing that 23 young lady that he was killing her. But the 24 fact remains that we have too many cases, not 25 great in number, but too many in terms of impact 2500 1 where this option would serve us well, and I 2 repeat what I said earlier, it has done so in 19 3 other states. 4 I think the conclusion of the 5 most recent case in Pennsylvania that had a lot 6 of notoriety associated with it, was an example 7 in point, and I think we in New York State 8 should have that same -- same option. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 10 Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 12 Madam President. If the Senator would continue 13 to yield. 14 Senator, I think that you raise 15 an interesting issue by offering us this piece 16 of legislation, and that is specifically what 17 we've been talking about, the fact that we're 18 now leaving to the determination of psychia 19 trists and diagnoses that they make through 20 their psychiatric manual, what may be inevitably 21 a public safety risk of allowing for the civil 22 commitments under the Jackson type of situation, 23 certainly where a person is found not respons 24 ible in New York State, and I wanted to let you 25 know that we don't take that -- that we take 2501 1 what you're saying very seriously because of 2 incidents such as the Torsman case which 3 occurred on Thanksgiving Day of 1977 where a 4 police officer killed a ten-year-old -- a 5 seven-year-old named Randolph Evans and was 6 found not responsible by reason of mental 7 disease or defect under an element of 8 psychiatric diagnosis that was actually rejected 9 at that trial by the American Psychiatric 10 Association, and the argument that this 11 psychiatric problem that the officer suffered 12 from had never existed before and evidenced 13 itself only at this moment, and so clearly it 14 wasn't going to be a long period of time before 15 the officer who was tried in that particular 16 case would be found to be able to conduct his 17 life, and in a sense almost lends itself to the 18 opportunity for defendants to almost make a 19 mockery not only of the criminal justice system 20 but of the psychiatric diagnoses by employing 21 these types of defenses. 22 My final question, Senator 23 Padavan, just simply is that if you're going to 24 do it your way and we're now going to establish 25 that there is guilt, then how do we exact a 2502 1 sentence on an individual whose guilt is 2 determined more by their psychiatric condition 3 and less by their knowledge of their own action? 4 In other words, we get into the whole issue of 5 how do we exact punishment? What would actually 6 be the sentence we would give to someone because 7 if, in the event they realistically were 8 recovered from their psychiatric problem, they 9 still have to serve the sentence for a crime 10 that they may not even remember committing? 11 If you can answer that question, 12 it would make it a little easier for me to 13 understand why the bill should pass. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm not sure if 16 I fully understand your question, but let me 17 reach for what I think it may be. 18 Your question is, guilty but 19 mentally ill is the verdict and now the judge 20 must issue a sentence. How does the mental 21 illness aspect of that individual's make-up 22 affect that sentence? Is that what you're saying 23 to me, just so I can answer it properly? 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 25 Paterson. 2503 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm listening, 2 Senator. The mental illness may actually be the 3 overarching catalyst for what the crime was. So 4 I'm saying, if we were to remove the mental 5 illness down the road, in other words if it's 6 found at some point that the person has 7 recovered or now my question is they committed 8 the crime, that's never been in question, how do 9 we exact a sentence for a crime where it is very 10 possible that the perpetrator may not even be 11 aware that they committed? 12 In other words, for instance, our 13 idea of punishment, it's in a sense the lesson 14 that the perpetrator learns having committed the 15 crime, but what is the -- what is served by 16 exacting a criminal sentence to an individual 17 who honestly, when they're in their right mind, 18 would never commit the crime? That's what I 19 mean. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator, 21 first, if someone truly, by your definition, had 22 no knowledge, had no idea that he or she was 23 committing a crime, then I don't believe a plea 24 of guilty but mentally ill would probably be 25 raised, but that's the issue here is, on 2504 1 sentencing certainly within all of our 2 sentencing procedures, mitigation and the 3 judge's latitude would prevail, and if 4 psychiatric information had been provided to the 5 case as would obviously be so because as you've 6 already said at the outset, there obviously 7 would be a pre-trial evaluation relative to 8 psychiatric impairment. 9 If that was determined, certainly 10 in a sentencing that fact would not be ignored. 11 But, secondly, I also indicated to you that when 12 this person is no longer psychiatrically 13 impaired and may well be subject to parole, the 14 bill we propose, the law that would be created, 15 would require follow-up psychiatric evaluation 16 and care, so in that respect we protect not only 17 society but also the individual who might end up 18 committing another crime as a result of a 19 psychiatric relapse. 20 This is not a perfect science. 21 Now, psychologists are more than likely to tell 22 you it's more an art than a science. We're 23 dealing with a very difficult area, we 24 acknowledge that, but the bottom line is, number 25 one, we place the individual in a prison as a 2505 1 result of a committed crime, where the 2 consequences of the act were known by the 3 individual. 4 Number two, we mandate 5 psychiatric care in that prison and follow-up 6 psychiatric care upon release to parole for 7 whatever reason or the sentence having been 8 completed. So I think under those circumstances 9 we serve the people well and we do the right 10 thing, including the individual who committed 11 the act. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 13 Senator Padavan. 14 Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: If the Senator 16 would yield just one more time. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 19 actually appreciate that part of the legislation 20 that you've introduced because the whole 21 psychiatric condition, as I see it, and the 22 criminal justice intervention are on separate 23 axes, so you have a situation where a person may 24 have actually served the sentence for the crime 25 but for the same reasons that I stated earlier 2506 1 in the example, since the possible recidivism of 2 their psychiatric condition is -- since there is 3 that possibility without the follow-up care that 4 you are suggesting, it is very possible that the 5 defendant will -- the perpetrator may wind up in 6 the exact same situation at some point in the 7 future because now they are again suffering from 8 this illness, and if we just treat it as simply 9 a crime and ignore the psychiatric problem, they 10 could serve the sentence but be no better served 11 by the -- by the incarceration than if we had 12 done nothing during that whole period of time. 13 So I certainly like that. 14 But to get back to my example. 15 If there were a situation such as the one I was 16 describing, what would be your recommendation 17 for a situation where the defendant is found by 18 the psychiatrist to have been unaware that - 19 and also in the literary example that you gave 20 that they actually committed the crime. If that 21 doesn't fit under this bill, what would be your 22 recommendation? 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: My 24 recommendation is irrelevant. Madam President, 25 my recommendation is irrelevant. It would be 2507 1 what the defense attorney would decide based on 2 information he has as to what plea he would 3 enter, and I'm certainly not in a position to 4 make that judgment in any hypothetical case. He 5 may, under the circumstance you just described, 6 seek acquittal by reason of insanity, a 7 psychiatric defect that, to use your words, put 8 that person in a position of not knowing that he 9 did what he did. 10 That's an extreme situation, and 11 that's a judgment that would have to be made 12 between the client, his attorney and perhaps 13 with the victim, in court. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 17 President, through you, Senator Padavan, you 18 feel your recommendation would be irrelevant? 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: My 21 recommendation? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: You feel your 23 recommendation would be irrelevant? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I'm not 25 an attorney, Senator, as you know, and I defer 2508 1 to those who are in terms of level of their 2 expertise, so for both reasons I think it would 3 be irrelevant. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 5 Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: I didn't know 7 the Senator would be willing to admit that, but 8 I just think that right now -- on the bill, 9 Madam President. 10 Right now, I would suggest that 11 one of the reasons that we have this type of 12 determination in a criminal justice proceeding 13 is that we constitutionally feel that just to go 14 to trial, that the defendant has to be able to 15 recognize that they're in this type of court 16 proceedings and that they would have to be able 17 to assist their attorney in their own defense. 18 After we've established that 19 fitness to proceed, we then have to establish 20 whether or not the defendant knows the 21 difference between right and wrong and whether 22 or not the defendant knew the difference between 23 right and wrong at the time that the crime was 24 actually committed. If the defendant does not 25 know this difference, we recommend as part of 2509 1 our state law that the defendant be found not 2 responsible by reason of mental disease or 3 defect, and that is to say that there is no 4 speaking to whether or not the crime was 5 actually committed. There is more an 6 understanding that this individual is not in 7 possession of their faculties that would have 8 allowed them to know exactly whether or not they 9 were committing a crime or acting in some other 10 way. 11 The legislation that's set forth, 12 I think, is in many ways quite proper, but what 13 I still would need to understand further is how 14 this is really an issue of law and not really an 15 issue of management as many procedures have been 16 changed in terms of orders of retention and 17 certain legal issues that we have to control 18 defendants after a finding that they may be not 19 responsible for the crime but are still very 20 dangerous people that have to be removed from 21 society. 22 I can't really decide whether or 23 not Senator Padavan's bill should become law. 24 What I think I will do is defer at this point to 25 the more capable Senator Waldon and his 2510 1 questioning which hopefully will lead me to a 2 conclusion. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 4 Senator Paterson. 5 Senator Waldon. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Madam President, 7 this is a banner day for me when Senator 8 Paterson has said such nice things. I find it 9 very difficult to even respond by approaching 10 Senator Padavan with some questions, but I will 11 try. So would you ask the learned gentleman 12 from Queens County if he would help me along in 13 understanding what he's doing by answering a 14 question or two? 15 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Just a 16 moment, Senator Waldon. I'd also like to 17 recognize Senator Skelos for a moment. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 19 there will be an immediate meeting of the Local 20 Governments Committee in Room 332 of the 21 Capitol. 22 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 23 immediate meeting of the Local Governments 24 Committee in Room 332. Senator Padavan, would 25 you please - 2511 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 2 THE PRESIDENT: -- yield to 3 Senator Waldon for a question? 4 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 5 much, Madam President. Thank you, Senator 6 Padavan. 7 Senator, many times when we are 8 considering measures on the floor, there is a 9 rationale, a reason. There was a motivation to 10 submit the particular bill in question for our 11 consideration. For example, a bill of this 12 nature might have been brought to your attention 13 by the Office of Mental Health. Is that the 14 case? Did Mental Health suggest to you that 15 this would be something worthy of our 16 consideration? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, first 18 of all, my involvement goes back over a decade. 19 I chaired the Mental Health Committee for ten 20 years between 1976 and '86, and we had a great 21 deal of dialogue with mental health 22 professionals, both within state government and 23 without. For instance, we had extensive 24 meetings with the psychiatric -- psychiatrists 25 that dealt with the famous "Son of Sam" case and 2512 1 so we collected a great deal of information on 2 that issue. It led us to this bill which has 3 passed this house on five previous occasions. 4 More recently, however, we had 5 direct input from the Attorney Generals of the 6 state of New York, Bob Abrams previously and the 7 Attorney General now in that office, as well as 8 the district attorneys through their 9 association, so that has added certainly a 10 dimension to our efforts. 11 Does that answer your question? 12 SENATOR WALDON: Yes it did, 13 Senator. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Madam President, 16 may I continue the questioning through you, if 17 the Senator would be so kind? 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Padavan, 20 has the Office of Mental Health taken a position 21 on this measure? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: The state 23 Office of Mental Health? 24 SENATOR WALDON: New York State. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't know. 2513 1 SENATOR WALDON: If I may ask 2 another question, Madam President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Padavan, 5 has the Department of Correctional Services 6 taken a position in support of what you are 7 submitting for our consideration? 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: We don't have 10 any memos from them either in support or in 11 opposition. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, would 13 you be aware of the number -- if I may continue, 14 Madam President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator 16 Waldon. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, would 18 you be aware of the number of insanity 19 dispositions which were rendered in the state of 20 New York, for example, over the last three 21 years? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, but I would 23 concede - 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- that in 2514 1 terms of numbers, compared with the total volume 2 of cases, they're not that many. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 4 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 5 continue, Madam President. Thank you very 6 much. 7 For the record, in 1994 we had 8 felony dispositions in the state which totaled 9 68,222; 50 of them were insanity dispositions. 10 In 1995, we had 66,151 such felony dispositions; 11 45 were insanity dispositions, and in 1996, we 12 had 62,499 total felony dispositions; 38 were 13 insanity dispositions. 14 If I may, Madam President, on the 15 bill. Thank you very much, Senator Padavan. 16 This is interesting. We're going 17 to have a decision which will say someone is 18 guilty but mentally ill and then we would 19 subject someone who should be in a mental health 20 facility to the cold stark reality of the 21 Department of Correctional Services, not that 22 the Department of Correctional Services isn't 23 professional. They are very professional, but 24 they are not equipped to deal with the problems 25 surrounding someone who brings the baggage of 2515 1 mental illness to them, and so we are doing a 2 disservice to our correctional officers. We are 3 doing a disservice to the person who happens to 4 be mentally ill and improperly incarcerated and 5 we are doing a disservice to society-at-large 6 because if this person ever is released, he or 7 she, they will not be prepared to cope at all 8 with the outside world. Too many of them, even 9 though they exit from mental health facilities, 10 are not prepared. 11 We are overburdening ourselves by 12 using this approach. This is a redundancy. 13 This is a redundancy. How can you be both 14 mentally ill and understand what you have done 15 when, by virtue of the definition, we require 16 that people know the act that they did when they 17 did it in order to have culpability for the 18 act? 19 And so I think, for whatever 20 reason, Senator Padavan has submitted this for 21 our consideration at this time. It is 22 ill-founded, and I would recommend to my 23 colleagues that we not accept this proposal but 24 we reject it because it will overburden the 25 Department of Correctional Services. It will 2516 1 take away the agency control of the rightful 2 agency, the Office of Mental Health, and it does 3 a disservice to the people who will be so found 4 guilty but mentally ill under his proposal in 5 our courts. 6 I thank you very much, Madam 7 President. I thank you, Senator Padavan. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Does anyone else 9 -- Oh, yes. Senator Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: I say this with 11 the greatest respect to Senator Padavan because 12 I know that he's trying to obtain justice and at 13 the same time alleviate some of that sting, but 14 you simply cannot speak in terms of guilt. 15 Guilt means a knowing departure from what an 16 individual knows to be wrong. 17 Culpability means different from 18 responsibility. We speak of a nation being 19 responsible for crimes that were committed 20 during the course of a war, but in effect the 21 people of that nation may not be responsible - 22 they may be responsible because it happened 23 while they were aware things were happening, but 24 culpability is something else. 25 Culpability means that there is a 2517 1 fault, a moral fault. Do you really have a 2 crime? I don't believe you have a crime if 3 somebody comes up to me with a gun and shoots 4 and kills me. Has that person committed a 5 crime? No. If that person's judgment is so 6 impaired that they're incapable of formulating 7 on evidence, scienter, intent to take my life. 8 You just don't have a crime. You have a violent 9 episode. You have an event that could have 10 happened if a brick fell off the top of a 11 building and hit me and dispatched me forever, 12 but you don't have a crime, and I simply -- I 13 cannot get the two together, and should that 14 person then even under those circumstances be 15 labored with the label of having committed a 16 crime? You can't. You cannot commit a crime 17 unless you intend to commit a crime, and it's - 18 it's a difficult issue, and I admire Senator 19 Padavan for struggling with it to at least 20 produce some justice and at the same time take 21 some of that sting out. 22 But I don't think we have that 23 option, Madam President. A crime has not been 24 committed if this individual suffers or labors 25 under the disabilities that are mentioned. You 2518 1 just have one of those unhappy episodes. If I 2 bump into somebody and that individual falls in 3 -- before a subway train and is killed, I have 4 no moral fault, but if I do it on purpose, then 5 there is scienter. A crime has been committed. 6 So the nature of an act, whether 7 it's moral or immoral -- don't forget every act 8 involving behavior requires scienter before it 9 becomes a crime. There is -- all those crimes 10 that require scienter are crimes of violence. 11 You just can't reconcile two concepts that are 12 mutually exclusive, Madam President, and there 13 may be other answers here, but I -- and I hope 14 -- I hope it's located, but I don't think we 15 can find it in this formulation, and I will 16 oppose it for that reason. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Madam 19 President, thank you. 20 Senator Marchi, I acknowledge 21 your discomfort as you just explained it to us. 22 However, I would draw your attention to the bill 23 itself, if you would be so kind to read it with 24 me, and if you see on the first page beginning 25 of line 13, there is a specific requirement in 2519 1 the application of this plea that says that the 2 defendant was suffering from mental illness or 3 defect, but not -- but not to an extent that he 4 lacked the necessary capacity to know or 5 appreciate either the nature of his conduct or 6 that his conduct was wrong at the time of the 7 commission of that crime; but that was the 8 example you gave. 9 We address that indirectly. If 10 an individual fell into your definition, then 11 this bill would not be applicable. I think it's 12 important for you to understand that. I 13 respect, and I would yield to you and your legal 14 expertise in this or any other area, but it's 15 important to understand that in drafting this 16 bill. We acknowledged exactly what you said and 17 we put it in there specifically so the crime 18 must have been committed, but that individual 19 had to know he committed a crime. If he did 20 not, by definition then, it's not applicable and 21 we're concerned with certainly can that be 22 justified. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Seward. 24 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Madam 25 President. 2520 1 I rise in support of Senator 2 Padavan's bill, and I salute him for his 3 leadership on this issue. In fact, I was proud 4 to join him as a co-sponsor of this measure 5 since 1994, when a murder case in the rural part 6 of Chenango County in my district really brought 7 to my attention the huge gap that I feel exists 8 in our laws as they exist today. 9 In that case, a teen-age girl 10 stabbed her boyfriend 22 times before school 11 one day, in a murder that was planned in 12 advance. It was contrived. She contrived the 13 opportunity. She tried to cover it up. In 14 fact, she went on to school after -- after the 15 incident, and the family was left to grieve a 16 young boy, the death of their son and brother, 17 and he was killed for what amounted to a 18 jealousy about a wilting teen-age romance; but 19 what happened after that unfortunate tragedy was 20 a tragedy in itself that brought more pain and 21 anguish to that family, but because of our 22 current laws, the verdict in this case was not 23 responsible by reason of mental disease or 24 defect, and I think that verdict was 25 unthinkable, in that the trial judge did impose 2521 1 the strictest sentence that he could under the 2 current laws and that was in this case five 3 years of out-patient mental health therapy. 4 Five years of out-patient mental health therapy 5 after someone's been stabbed 22 times. 6 So I think that we do need to 7 address this in the laws of the state of New 8 York. A jury like the one in my district cannot 9 be blamed or the verdict cannot be blamed on the 10 jury. It cannot be blamed on anything else than 11 our defective insanity defense in the law. The 12 jury was faced with an all or nothing situation, 13 either to say that that person was guilty beyond 14 a reasonable doubt or not responsible by reason 15 of mental disease and defect. 16 Senator Padavan's bill very 17 correctly would give a jury in this case and 18 others another option. It would say, yes, the 19 killer was suffering from a mental disorder at 20 the time of the crime, but it was not to such a 21 degree that the defendant is totally excused 22 from accountability and responsibility for very 23 serious crimes against an individual or against 24 society as a whole. 25 So I support Senator Padavan's 2522 1 bill. I think it does give a jury this 2 additional option when someone is to be declared 3 guilty but mentally ill. Let them get the help 4 that they obviously need but also let them 5 accept some responsibility and be accountable 6 for their action. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 8 Senator Seward. 9 Does anyone else care to speak on 10 the bill? 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 13 President, the more I hear about this 14 legislation, and it's certainly not Senator 15 Padavan's fault but the less I'm understanding 16 it. The issue regarding the ability of the 17 defendant to deceive the court is one that we're 18 not going to solve in this kind of legislative 19 proceeding. 20 Senator Seward describes a very 21 tragic situation where I guess the defendant 22 confused the issue and made the jury believe 23 that she had a psychiatric condition, but in the 24 actual case, I don't know that a finding of 25 guilty but mentally ill would really be the - 2523 1 would really be the formula for how to treat 2 that. The actual finding should have been just 3 plain guilty. The psychiatric illness, even if 4 the defendant had it, didn't have anything to do 5 with the knowledge of right and wrong in that 6 particular case. 7 There's an even more famous case 8 than that, the case of the Hillside Strangler, 9 who, when he was finally caught, actually read 10 all the psychiatric books and acted out the 11 parts to cause the jury to feel that he was not 12 responsible. What inevitably happened to the 13 Hillside Strangler is that, when the 14 psychiatrist realized that this defendant was 15 actually intelligent enough to learn the 16 procedures and to learn how to be that 17 deceptive, they wrote a fictitious book and 18 described some psychiatric illnesses that the 19 Hillside Strangler then acted out, and that was 20 when they were able to prove that this person 21 was totally competent and just was a brilliant 22 individual who had, in many respects, outsmarted 23 the authorities on that point. 24 But related to what Senator 25 Padavan is trying to accomplish, if the 2524 1 defendant lacks scienter, as Senator Marchi so 2 eloquently stated, Senator Padavan acknowledges 3 that this legislation is probably not 4 applicable. If the person knows the difference 5 between right and wrong, then they should 6 probably be found guilty. If there is an 7 additional psychiatric problem, that would be 8 for the Department of Mental Health and for the 9 Department of Corrections to actually address. 10 So all I'm saying is now I'm 11 starting to lose sight of which are the cases 12 that would fall within the ambit that this 13 legislation would actually affect because in the 14 types of cases where individuals are actually 15 committing crimes and are probably assuaged in 16 that direction by the mental illness, it is not 17 clear to me how a finding of guilt, as Senator 18 Waldon stated, is really going to help us as a 19 society contain a dangerous person. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator Paterson. 22 Does anyone else intend to speak 23 on the bill? 24 (There was no response. ) 25 Read the last section, please. 2525 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 5 THE PRESIDENT: Have we recorded 6 all the votes in the negative? 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 298 are Senators 9 Abate, Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger, Gold, 10 Lachman, Leichter, Marchi, Paterson, Sampson, 11 Seabrook, Smith, Waldon. Ayes 45, nays 13. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 Senator Kuhl. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 16 President. In the way of announcements, we'd 17 like to call an immediate meeting of the 18 Transportation Committee, immediate meeting of 19 the Senate Transportation Committee in the 20 Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 21 THE PRESIDENT: There is an 22 immediate meeting of the Senate Transportation 23 Committee in Room 332. 24 Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2526 1 309, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 231, an 2 act to amend the Social Services Law and the 3 Workers' Compensation Law, in relation to liens 4 for public assistance. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Explanation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: Madam 8 President, Senator Stachowski, I'm sure you know 9 this bill very well, but basically it says that 10 if a worker is injured and files a Workers' 11 Compensation claim and while that claim -- he is 12 awaiting the results of that claim through the 13 judicial system, he needs assistance, he or she 14 needs assistance, and he goes to welfare, we 15 help them. They need assistance and we help 16 them. That's what welfare is for, but when the 17 court decides or decides in the claimant's favor 18 and they are awarded a cash grant, then that 19 individual should repay the grant from welfare, 20 the loan from welfare, just as any other 21 individual would have to do who is not on 22 welfare, an individual -- low income individual 23 who has the same problem and may have to borrow 24 money or build up bills and just still has to 25 pay that loan back when the claimant is given 2527 1 the grant by the court system, and that's all 2 we're trying to do here. 3 We're trying to even it up, not 4 take care of people who need assistance but when 5 the grant comes that the welfare system should 6 be repaid the loan. 7 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Madam 8 President, would the Senator yield for a couple 9 of questions? 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland? 11 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, ma'am. 12 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, 13 you, in your explanation, you say that when the 14 worker is injured and for whatever reason he is 15 now, after an amount of time, forced to go on 16 public assistance, something that I'm sure as a 17 working individual he'd prefer not doing, so he 18 goes on public assistance in order to pay bills 19 and feed his family and clothe his children, and 20 you refer to that as a loan, where if somebody 21 is just plain poor and they're on public 22 assistance that's a benefit. 23 Now, how does this worker that's 24 injured get a loan where everyone else that goes 25 to social services gets a benefit? Can you 2528 1 explain that to me? 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yeah, my 3 opinion. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm ready. 6 In my opinion, Senator, this is 7 double dipping. Everyone doesn't have that 8 opportunity. This individual who is getting 9 compensation, getting welfare, is paid twice and 10 that's the thing that we're trying to correct 11 here, not that people shouldn't be taken care 12 of. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator. 14 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If the 15 Senator would continue to yield. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: At the time 18 that this person is awaiting possibly winning 19 their case, they haven't won yet because 20 obviously they're being forced to go on public 21 service -- social service because they don't 22 have any money. They haven't won, so I still 23 don't understand how it's double dipping or how 24 that's a loan rather than a benefit as it is to 25 anyone else that happens to be on social 2529 1 services. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Well, anyone 3 who is on social services and doesn't get a pay 4 back from any organization, an insurance 5 company, Workers' Compensation, whatever, we 6 don't ask them to pay that back. That's fine. 7 This is a different situation where they are 8 getting the Workers' Compensation money and the 9 welfare money, and it seems to me if you don't 10 want to call it a loan, it acts the same as a 11 loan to get them over the hump until the courts 12 resolve the case. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: In this same 14 bill, if you continue to yield. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes, sir. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Volunteer 17 firefighters and ambulance workers are exempt 18 from this lien, and so that's not a loan for 19 them either. Why is that different for them 20 rather than for injured workers? 21 SENATOR HOLLAND: We took them as 22 a different category. They were volunteering 23 for the community and not getting paid in the 24 individual jobs they're doing there, so that we 25 separated them out. 2530 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: If you would 3 continue to yield. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Holland. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: But yet if 7 they still get a settlement from an insurance 8 company, what -- why wouldn't they have to pay 9 this back as opposed to the injured worker, the 10 poor steel worker, the iron worker, the woman 11 working at a sewing machine in the garment 12 industry? Why? I mean I understand it's the 13 volunteer gets hurt while volunteering but if 14 they, in fact, get the same insurance -- kind of 15 insurance settlement, why would they not have to 16 pay it back and it wouldn't be a loan for them 17 but it would be for the injured worker? 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Senator, I 20 think it's a different situation because of 21 volunteers, but I do take your point and if this 22 bill passes the Senate and, as is normal, is not 23 even considered by the Assembly, I will next 24 year include volunteers as well. 25 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Well, on the 2531 1 bill. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Stachowski. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, I 5 like the idea that you don't have volunteer 6 firefighters or ambulance people in it, and for 7 that matter, I don't think anybody should be in 8 it. 9 The fact is that that section of 10 the law was written to recognize the fact that 11 when people get hurt, that the process often 12 times, because the insurance company doesn't 13 want to pay, is delayed. Part of the tactic is 14 to force that person into a situation they don't 15 want to be in, namely going on public assistance 16 which many working people find demeaning; they 17 don't want to be there. They don't enjoy being 18 there. The fact that they're hurt, they never 19 get back their full capability of earning 20 power. They never get back the full capability 21 of quality of life, and to tell those people 22 that are hurt that earned the right to go on 23 Workers' Compensation because they worked and 24 paid all their lives into the system, that in 25 your case unlike somebody that maybe never 2532 1 worked, that's a benefit for them, but for you 2 it's only a loan because you're an injured 3 worker. All you did is work all your life and 4 pay for the system, pay taxes, pay salaries, 5 taxes. They take money out of your checks, and 6 the fact is you're not entitled to get these 7 benefits because for you, because you're hurt 8 and because the insurance company is squeezin' 9 you or the process just doesn't work because 10 it's still too slow, in your case you're going 11 to have to pay this back even though for the 12 rest of your life you're never going to have the 13 same earning ability, you're never going to have 14 the same quality of life because whatever injury 15 you have is certainly going to affect the nature 16 and the life style you have because of the fact 17 that you can't even work, so if you're somebody 18 like Senator Holland or Senator Skelos and you 19 enjoy golf, you probably won't be able to play 20 golf any more, but that doesn't matter, it's 21 only a part of your quality of life. 22 But the fact is that you are 23 really not giving them a double dip. You're 24 giving them the benefit that they earn. They 25 don't have any income. They have to go on it 2533 1 for a short period of time and that's a benefit 2 that they get in the settlement that never makes 3 up entirely for what they lost in the quality of 4 life and the loss of future money that they 5 might earn, and I don't think that our Workers' 6 Compensation benefits are that great. As a 7 matter of fact, they're in the middle of the 8 field, actually in the lower part of the field 9 and the fact is the only thing that grew in New 10 York State in Workers' Comp. was the premiums 11 that businesses paid to give those people that 12 measly amount of money that they get in benefit 13 levels, and to say to those people that don't 14 ever get that money back and never live the same 15 kind of life style because you were hurt and for 16 a short time in your life, even though you 17 didn't want to go there, you had to accept 18 public assistance, in your case you have to pay 19 it back, I think it's mean-spirited. I think 20 it's a terrible way to be doing a budget 21 balancer. 22 At this point in time, I don't 23 even know why we're doing this bill. It's not 24 double dipping. We have a surplus, thanks to 25 Wall Street, and to tell people that at this 2534 1 time in the history of the state of New York 2 that once again we're going to move this bill 3 that mistreats injured workers, I just think is 4 a terrible precedent, and I would hope that 5 everybody in the chamber would vote against it. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Would anyone else 7 -- oh, Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 9 President, I agree wholeheartedly with Senator 10 Stachowski. This legislation has in it a 11 provision that I think explains why the whole 12 piece of legislation shouldn't exist in the 13 first place. 14 The benefit that's given to 15 volunteer firefighters is one, I guess, 16 presumably because since they were volunteering 17 and they were giving a service to our society 18 that we would allow them to collect both 19 benefits. Well, that's actually the reason that 20 everyone should be included in the bill. 21 We actually cap the Workers' 22 Compensation award at two-thirds of the salary 23 as long as the salary is under $600 a week. 24 That means that, if you made $1200 a week, you 25 wouldn't get more than $400 back. The reason 2535 1 that we can't reward a hundred percent of 2 someone's salary as we wish we could, is because 3 as a government we just don't have the re 4 sources, but we certainly, by the fact that we 5 have Workers' Compensation, do understand that 6 collectively, as a society, we would try to help 7 those individuals who, by reason of injury are 8 unable to work and fully enjoy their lives, 9 fully to take care of their families, and this 10 is something that we undertake. 11 In these rare situations where 12 they may have collected a -- some other benefit 13 and are now adding to it with Workers' 14 Compensation, in most of the cases they don't 15 come in any way close to their full salary. It 16 really is just a pittance. It's just a minor 17 amount of money that they get in addition to 18 what they would have gotten. To try to take it 19 away from them, as Senator Stachowski very 20 eloquently stated, really at this point in our 21 society is -- is just unnecessary, and I beg to 22 differ with Senator Holland. I think that this 23 would really hurt the workers of New York State 24 if this legislation ever became law. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 2536 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE PRESIDENT: Several people 7 want to be recorded in the negative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 309 are Senators 10 Breslin, Connor, DeFrancisco, Gentile, Gold, 11 Kruger, Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, 12 Onorato, Paterson, Santiago, Seabrook, 13 Stachowski, Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 42, nays 14 16. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 16 passed. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 406, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 3001, 20 concurrent resolution of the Senate and Assembly 21 proposing an amendment to Article VI of the 22 Constitution. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 25 SENATOR LACK: Madam President, 2537 1 this is a Constitutional Amendment which would 2 increase the civil jurisdictional limits of the 3 Civil Court of the city of New York from 25,000 4 to 50,000, and the District Courts from 15,000 5 to 50,000, second passage. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Would our very 9 distinguished chairman of Judiciary yield to a 10 question? 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack? 12 SENATOR LACK: Certainly. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the - 14 I've read the memos and the reports and the 15 arguments on this issue, and assuming for the 16 sake of argument that there is some logic to the 17 position, the last I heard and I know you 18 believe this, we work for the people, and wasn't 19 this submitted to the people and didn't the 20 people tell us they didn't want it? That's my 21 question. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 23 SENATOR LACK: Yes, Senator 24 Gold. This passed unanimously in both houses 25 and was rejected after a vote. It's been 2538 1 resubmitted at the request of the judiciary. 2 This would be the fourth time -- you voted for 3 it last year as well as everybody else. 4 It was felt at the time when it 5 went to the voters two years ago that, because 6 of the monetary amounts that were contained in 7 the bill, someone thought this would cost 8 money. It does not. We've also had requests 9 from editorial boards of newspapers and others 10 who have been involved in it that there would be 11 different media attention if it went to the 12 voters this year in 1997, and a greater 13 understanding, this now being the fourth time 14 it's passed the Legislature, that this is 15 something that needs to be done. There would be 16 a greater understanding. It was just a mis 17 understanding the last time. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, 21 good morning. Madam President, on the bill. 22 Senator Lack, first of all, I 23 think you're incorrect on one thing. I think I 24 did vote against this last year, but that's not 25 really the point. 2539 1 Another point I'd like to make is 2 I had a conversation with a reporter for a major 3 metropolitan newspaper, was not Clark Kent, who 4 said to me earlier today that when I responded 5 to him in a certain way about the editorial page 6 of his paper, he said, Well, who reads that? I 7 thought that was interesting coming from a 8 reporter. 9 But, Senator Lack, I think it's 10 interesting that we make an argument and we say 11 that, if other people don't buy our argument, 12 it's only because they misunderstood it. I 13 believe, Senator Lack, that you believe in this 14 issue, and I congratulate you for carrying the 15 program for the Court Administration office, but 16 I'm going to vote against it because very simply 17 the people said they don't want it. 18 We have a court structure now and 19 I know that our chief judge, Judith Kaye, wants 20 to change that structure, and I admire her as a 21 chief judge, and I don't agree with her 22 necessarily on where she comes out on different 23 issues, but I admire her and what she's trying 24 to do. 25 But, Senator, we work for the 2540 1 people and the people say they want a court 2 structure that's different and they didn't want 3 this, and I think the concept that we're going 4 to keep throwing it at them and throwing it at 5 them until, quotes, they learn what we know, so 6 demeaning an argument to the people, and it's an 7 argument that I really don't want to be a party 8 to. 9 I think there are some issues 10 that come before us which are issues of 11 conscience. I think there are some issues that 12 come before us where intelligent people can 13 disagree as to approaches, and I don't think 14 this is a matter of conscience at all. I think 15 it's a matter of approach. The people who we 16 work for told us they like the court system the 17 way it is, and they do not believe these changes 18 should be made, and I for one am going to follow 19 their direction and vote to maintain the 20 system. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 22 Senator Gold. 23 Senator Lack. 24 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Madam 25 President. 2541 1 Just a minor comment. Obviously 2 Senator Gold well knows as a fellow attorney, it 3 costs a lot less to commence and carry on an 4 action in the lower court in the city of New 5 York and the lower courts of Nassau and Suffolk 6 Counties, which are what the civil courts and 7 the district courts are. 8 In the 20 years since the courts 9 were consolidated under OCA, from 1977 to 1997 10 obviously there's been inflation and a $15,000 11 action on long island 20 years ago and a $25,000 12 action commenced in the city of New York 20 13 years ago are not worth the same amount now. To 14 require those actions to be commenced in Supreme 15 Court of the state of New York and to maintain 16 those proceedings at the Supreme Court level in 17 this day and age is not only ridiculous, it 18 requires much more expensive legal time and the 19 work of attorneys rather than maintaining those 20 actions in lower courts. 21 That's the reason, Madam 22 President, beginning in 1992, the judiciary, 23 with the support of then Governor Cuomo and the 24 judiciary, now with the support of Governor 25 Pataki, has been advancing the increase in the 2542 1 monetary jurisdictions of the District Court and 2 the New York City Civil Court, and while the 3 chief judge indeed is suggesting court 4 restructuring, this particular constitutional 5 amendment pre-dates any of those suggestions and 6 has nothing whatsoever to do with the 7 restructuring proposal by the chief judge. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 9 Senator Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, 11 would the distinguished gentleman yield to a 12 question, please? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator? 14 SENATOR LACK: Senator? 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Lack, if 16 we were, in fact, to merge these courts as has 17 been proposed, do you know what the proposal 18 would do with filing fees? Would the filing fees 19 for all matters now be the same Supreme Court 20 filing fee? 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lack. 22 SENATOR LACK: If you're 23 referring to the restructuring proposal that's 24 been advanced by the chief judge, the District 25 Court in Nassau and Suffolk County and New York 2543 1 City Civil Court would be merged into one court 2 statewide called the District Court which would 3 be an inferior court to what is now called the 4 Supreme Court. These actions, in effect, that 5 we're talking about here would, in effect, stay 6 at the inferior court level and more than 7 likely, unless by statute we set some other 8 filing fees, the filing fees would remain where 9 they are now, Senator. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 11 THE PRESIDENT: On the 12 resolution. Call the roll, please. 13 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 14 THE PRESIDENT: Several Senators 15 wish to be recorded in the negative. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 406 are Senators 18 Connor, Gold, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago and 19 Waldon. Ayes 52, nays 6. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is 21 adopted. 22 Senator Bruno, that completes the 23 controversial -- oh, I'm so sorry. The 24 Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2544 1 481, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2654, an act 2 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 3 to authorizing and establishing. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 6 this is a very single purpose bill. This bill 7 has been requested by the board members of the 8 Genesee Valley Regional Market Authority asking 9 that they be allowed statutorily to be paid a 10 $150 per each session that they meet at board 11 meetings. 12 This is a public authorities 13 creation back in the chapter laws of 1951. It's 14 an authority that was created for the purpose of 15 helping out the sales, the buying and selling of 16 agricultural products. In its 46 years now of 17 existence, it has proved to be quite helpful and 18 certainly very productive. There has been, in 19 the course of these 40-some-odd years several 20 loans coming from the state of New York that 21 were given to the Authority to get its feet on 22 the ground, so to speak, which have all been 23 repaid as of last year, about $4 million worth 24 of loans. They've all been repaid. 25 The Authority is making money. 2545 1 However, they're having a problem getting 2 attendance. It's much like keeping all of our 3 members in the chamber this afternoon. I 4 suppose, if we have paid them a per diem that 5 would require their attendance here, that they'd 6 be more likely to sit in and listen to these 7 debates. But in any case it's a 15-member board 8 and they are predominantly farmers. They are 9 people who are involved in the agricultural 10 production. 11 At this point and for 46 years 12 all they've ever been paid is the mileage to and 13 from. There are several communities that are 14 represented on this board, and Senator Dollinger 15 has an interest in this bill as does Senator 16 Alesi and myself, and Senator Volker and many 17 other members. As I say, there are a minimum of 18 four board meetings a year, and it's thought 19 that to try to encourage attendance from these 20 people who are very busy, at very busy times of 21 the year, it's only fair that they, being that 22 this Authority is making significant sums of 23 money and in helping the agricultural community, 24 that these people actually be reimbursed for 25 their time. 2546 1 So there is a request for an 2 appropriation of $150 for their salary, if you 3 will, or a fee to be paid for their attendance 4 at these meetings, each and every one of the 5 meetings from here on forward. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 7 Senator Kuhl. 8 Read the last section, please. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 Senator Skelos, that completes 17 the controversial reading of the calendar. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 19 if we could return -- return to reports of 20 standing committees. I believe there's two 21 committee reports at the desk. I ask that they 22 be read. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Reports of 24 standing committees. The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright, 2547 1 from the Committee on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, 2 reports the following bills: 3 Senate Print 41, by Senator Levy, 4 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 5 51, by Senator Levy, an act to 6 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 7 75, by Senator Levy, an act to 8 amend the Public Authorities Law and the 9 Railroad Law; 10 100, by Senator Levy, an act to 11 amend Chapter 312 of the Laws of 1994; 12 2285, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 13 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 14 3812, by Senator Wright, an act 15 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law and 16 the Mental Hygiene Law; 17 3817, by Senator Wright, an act 18 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, and 19 3989, by Senator Alesi, an act to 20 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 21 Senator Lack, from the Committee 22 on Judiciary, reports: 23 Senate Print 1541-A, by Senator 24 DeFrancisco, an act to amend the Surrogate's 25 Court Procedure Act; 2548 1 2789, by Senator Volker, an act 2 to amend the Real Property Actions and 3 Proceedings Law; 4 2971, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 5 act to amend the General Obligations Law; 6 3453, by Senator Lack, an act to 7 amend the Judiciary Law; 8 3527, by Senator Lack, an act to 9 amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act; 10 3544, by Senator Goodman, an act 11 to amend the Real Property Law; 12 3581, by Senator Lack, an act to 13 amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act; 14 3608, by Senator Lack, an act to 15 amend the Judiciary Law, and 16 3791, with amendments by Senator 17 Saland, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court 18 Procedure Act. 19 Senator Rath, from the Committee 20 on Local Government, reports: 21 Senate Print 2368, by Senator 22 Larkin, an act to authorize the town of 23 Newburgh; 24 2894, by Senator Volker, an act 25 to amend the Local Finance Law; 2549 1 3135, by Senator LaValle, an act 2 to amend the General Municipal Law; 3 3138, by Senator LaValle, an act 4 to amend the Town Law; 5 3314, by Senator LaValle, an act 6 to amend the Town Law and others; 7 3611, by Senator Rath, an act to 8 amend the Real Property Tax Law; 9 3640, by Senator Rath, an act to 10 amend the General Municipal Law; 11 3661, by Senator Rath, an act to 12 amend the Real Property Tax Law and the Real 13 Property Law; 14 3670, by Senator Rath, an act to 15 amend the General Municipal Law, and 16 4054, by Senator Rath, an act to 17 amend the Village Law. 18 All bills ordered direct for 19 third reading. 20 THE PRESIDENT: All bills direct 21 to third reading. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 24 I believe the Transportation Committee meeting 25 is going on right now. Following that we will 2550 1 notify the membership the Commerce Committee 2 will meet, and if, at this time, we could move 3 on to motions to discharge, I believe there's 4 several on the -- that the Senate has been 5 notified of. 6 Just want to point out there are 7 a number of them by Senator Leichter that were 8 noticed for April 1st. I won't comment on the 9 date they were noticed for, but as a courtesy to 10 Senator Leichter, we will allow them to be heard 11 today even though they were scheduled for April 12 1st and April 2nd. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Motions to 14 discharge. 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 17 Madam President. 18 Would you please call up the 19 motion that is offered by Senator Stachowski, 20 who is joining us in the chamber right now. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 22 Stachowski. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 24 3934, by Senator Breslin, an act in relation to 25 affecting the health insurance benefits and 2551 1 contributions of certain retired public 2 employees. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Madam President. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 5 could I just say the -- this side of the aisle 6 will more or less decide the order of taking up 7 the motions. If members -- the Minority has 8 notified us, given us notice the order they 9 would like us to take up the motions. If we 10 could go in that order, we would appreciate it 11 also; so I believe Senator Stachowski is first. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 14 Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: It's the same 16 piece of legislation, but I'd just like the 17 Chair to be aware that my counsel was given 18 Senator Stachowski's name, and it doesn't matter 19 whose name actually appears on it, but the 20 reason that I asked, Madam President, to call up 21 that motion is that's the information that we 22 were given, and with that being said we'll try 23 to observe an order and a decorum here, but we 24 certainly do not mean to mislead the Chair in 25 offering that motion. 2552 1 THE PRESIDENT: We're talking 2 about the same bill. 3 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yeah, yeah. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 5 Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Just for a 7 point of clarification. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And I don't 10 mean to be ungrateful for the courtesy given to 11 us by the Majority, but I would like to point 12 out that it is the same piece of legislation and 13 I -- my name happens to be on it first, but I 14 would like to yield to Senator Breslin. 15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Madam 16 President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Breslin. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: This is a bill 19 which would prohibit state and local government 20 from reducing health care benefits to its 21 retirees and reducing employer contributions for 22 its retirees. It has a history here in the 23 Legislature. In 1996 it passed the Assembly 24 with one negative vote. 25 It is critically important for 2553 1 our retired people, and also in Albany County 2 having the largest number of state retired 3 people to have this law passed. Our retirees do 4 not have the benefit of collective bargaining. 5 Our retirees are on fixed incomes. Our retirees 6 are concerned on a daily basis about their 7 health care coverage. To align them with 8 existing state employees, that these benefits 9 could not be taken away unless similar 10 reductions were made to state employees is a 11 positive step that this Legislature can take for 12 all of the retired public employees who are now 13 put in peril without this law. 14 Thank you. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Does anyone else 16 wish to speak on the motion? 17 The Secretary will call the 18 roll. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 20 the affirmative. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 22 the negative. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 23, nays 35, 24 party vote. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The motion is 2554 1 defeated. 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 4 President, at this time would we please call up 5 the long awaited and much appreciated and much 6 ballyhooed motions to discharge offered by 7 Senator Leichter. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 11 President. Thank you, Senator Paterson. Thank 12 you, Senator Skelos. I was hoping to do these 13 motions on April 1st but, as you know, there was 14 a storm. Actually, I went down to the train 15 station and found out trains were delayed by 16 five hours. I was hoping to do it the next day 17 which would have been Wednesday, April 2nd. I 18 got on the train. I got as far as Poughkeepsie 19 and, because the signals were out, I had to turn 20 around. So I appreciate having a chance to do 21 it now. 22 Let me -- there's a number of 23 motions, and I don't want to take much time on 24 it, but they're terribly important and let me 25 just make a brief comment about the area that 2555 1 I'm addressing, which is campaign financing 2 because we really have a system in this state 3 which is a non-system. 4 What's really shocking is not 5 what's illegal, what's shocking is what's legal, 6 and let me say that I'm not -- I mean it's a 7 partisan issue in one sense, but it really 8 isn't. There's no -- there are no saints on 9 either side, so either -- from either party on 10 this issue of campaign financing. There's a lot 11 of sinners, and I think that as a legislative 12 body of people who are concerned, I think, with 13 public policy, with how government functions, we 14 really ought to change the system, because what 15 we have now I mean is a cancer in the political 16 system. It's awful, and I don't think there's a 17 member here who doesn't feel it's awful, the way 18 that we have to go out, raise money, the people 19 that we have to go for, always more and more 20 money, the expense of campaigning. 21 Some of these things are out of 22 our control. Some of them are dictated by 23 Supreme Court decisions, but what my motion is 24 dealing with are some very evident, very 25 glaring, very blatant loopholes and if we close 2556 1 those, we will make this a fairer and a better 2 system for every one of us and for the public at 3 large and that's what my motions address, and 4 let me just say I know there's a lot of talk 5 about, well, we've never passed motions to 6 discharge and motions to discharge are offensive 7 to the integrity of our system here, and so on. 8 Nonsense! I don't know, maybe I have missed 9 something. Maybe they changed the "good book" 10 or changed the - 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 12 could I interrupt? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: We're certainly 15 enjoying your presentation. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm glad you 17 are. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: But I think at 19 this time it would be appropriate to call up one 20 of the motions. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: I thought they 22 were. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: The member has 24 to make the motion. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 2557 1 Then call up S. 3346, please. Thank you. Can I 2 call - 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 4 will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senate 3346, by 6 Senator Leichter, an act to amend the Election 7 Law, in relation to intermediaries. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 10 Leichter. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I think -- I 12 think this is a fair and proper way, a motion to 13 discharge, to bring issues before this body that 14 ought to be addressed. I hope that we're going 15 to have -- our Election Law Committee was to 16 bring some of these bills out, but I, very 17 frankly, don't have much hope and that's the 18 reason that I've made these motions. 19 So let me just briefly explain. 20 The first one, this bill, S. 3346 requires the 21 disclosure of the name, address and the amount 22 of money raised and from whom raised of any 23 intermediary or bundler of campaign 24 contributions. 25 Would you call a vote on that, 2558 1 Madam President? 2 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the 4 roll. ) 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 6 the negative. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 24, nays 9 35. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The motion is 11 defeated. 12 Senator Leichter? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, I have a 14 few more. Would you call up S. 3347. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 18 3347, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 19 Election Law, in relation to limiting 20 contributions. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 22 Leichter. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. Madam 24 President, this is one that tries to deal with 25 what is, I think, the grossest abuse that now 2559 1 exists, both on the national level and the state 2 level in campaign financing, and that is soft 3 money. Every -- no day goes by when the press 4 doesn't report on some campaign finance abuse 5 involving soft money. 6 Much of the focus has been 7 national and should be, but right here in New 8 York State we have the same problem. The 9 Republican State Committee raised over $3 10 million in soft money contributions from 1887 11 entities and soft money is under no limitations 12 whatsoever. Philip Morris gave 156,000 to the 13 Republican State Committee. There's no reason 14 to have the soft money -- in this state it's 15 called housekeeping -- without limitations as to 16 the amounts that can be given. This bill 17 provides for limitation of $1,000. 18 Madam President, if you'd call 19 the roll on that, please. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Call the roll on 22 the motion. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Is there anyone 24 else who intends to speak on the motion? Call 25 the roll on the motion. All in favor signify by 2560 1 saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (Response of "Nay.") 5 The motion is defeated. 6 Senator? 7 SENATOR LACHMAN: Madam Chair, I 8 was attending a meeting of the Transportation 9 Committee when there was discussion on Calendar 10 Number 309. Had I been in the chamber, I would 11 be recorded in the negative, and now - 12 THE PRESIDENT: Without 13 objection. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 16 there will be an immediate meeting of the 17 Commerce Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 18 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 19 immediate meeting of the Commerce Committee in 20 Room 332. 21 Senator Abate. 22 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I would 23 like unanimous consent to have my vote recorded 24 in the negative on Calendar Number 309. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Without 2561 1 objection. 2 Senator? 3 SENATOR SMITH: Madam President, 4 I request unanimous consent to be recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 309. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Without 7 objection. 8 Senator Leichter. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Would 10 you call up Senate 3650. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 12 read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 14 3650, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 15 Election Law, in relation to eliminating the 16 transfer of certain funds. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: One of the 18 loopholes in our Election Law is that 19 legislative committees and other political 20 action committees set up by a party could make 21 transfers without any limitations whatsoever. 22 Transfers are treated other than contributions. 23 As a result, the legislative committees, 24 Republican Senate Legislative Committee, the 25 Democratic Assembly Committee raised enormous 2562 1 sums of money which they can contribute to one 2 or two candidates without any limitation 3 whatsoever. The result is that you have funding 4 of campaigns in certain contestant races, people 5 that are considered marginal where really all 6 the money is raised by the legislative 7 committees. 8 The local people really are 9 almost disenfranchised as to whether the 10 Majority Leader in the Senate or the Speaker in 11 the Assembly raised these enormous sums of money 12 and these committees are not subject to the same 13 limitations. 14 So if somebody wanted to give, 15 let's say $50,000 to me in a campaign, they 16 can't do it. The most you can give a Senate 17 campaign is roughly $7,000. They can go -- they 18 can give $50,000 to the Senate Democratic 19 Committee and that Senate Democratic Committee 20 can give the full amount of $50,000 to me. 21 That's obviously absurd. That's a loophole and 22 it's led to, I think, a great abuse. 23 So let's close that. Let's say, 24 as this bill does, that transfers will be 25 treated like any other contribution. What is 2563 1 the rationale for saying, we're going to have 2 contribution limitations but transfers, oh, no, 3 transfers are totally unlimited and this has, I 4 think, also led to -- unfortunately, money plays 5 a bigger and bigger and bigger role in deciding 6 which bills come to the floor, whether in the 7 Assembly or in the Senate. We ought to 8 eliminate that. 9 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 10 all in favor signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye".) 12 Those opposed by saying nay. 13 (Response of "Nay".) 14 The motion is defeated. 15 Senator. 16 SENATOR LACHMAN: Madam Chair, I 17 rise again. I would like to be recorded -- ask 18 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 19 and to be allowed to vote no on Calendar Item 20 309. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Without 22 objection. 23 SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter 25 -- Senator Mendez. 2564 1 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, 2 Senator Leichter. 3 I do request unanimous consent to 4 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 5 298 and 309. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Without 7 objection. 8 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 11 President, if you would bring up Senate 3563. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 13 will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 15 3563, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 16 Election Law, in relation to the treatment of 17 corporate subsidiaries. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 20 President, my colleagues, this deals with the 21 loophole that, while corporations are limited to 22 giving $5,000, there's no limitation of how much 23 they can give through subsidiaries. 24 Now, if our intent was, as it's 25 stated in the law, to limit corporations to 2565 1 $5,000, you shouldn't allow a corporation to use 2 its subsidiaries to give way beyond that $5,000 3 limitation. 4 There are a number of instances 5 and reports that I have issued where corpora 6 tions, by using subsidiaries, have given 20-, 7 30-, 40-, $50,000, clearly against the spirit of 8 the law. This bill would require that 9 corporations list who their subsidiaries are and 10 that the total amount that can be given by the 11 entire corporate family is the $5,000 limitation 12 that we state in the law, but it's stated so 13 inartfully that you can easily get around it 14 through the use of subsidiaries. This bill 15 would eliminate that loophole. 16 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 17 all in favor signify -- are you standing, 18 Senator Volker, because you wish to speak? All 19 in favor signify by saying aye. 20 (Response of "Aye".) 21 Those opposed, nay. 22 (Response of "Nay".) 23 The motion is defeated. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 25 President, if you would - 2566 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you would 3 call up Senate 3306. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 5 will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 7 3306, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 8 Public Officers Law, in relation to the 9 regulation of gifts. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 12 President, this deals with a related issue. The 13 problem that we have where we have seen the 14 chief executives of this state, Governor Cuomo 15 and now Governor Pataki going out, giving 16 speeches at high honorariums, I think that's 17 improper, leads to a conflict, shouldn't have 18 been done by Governor Cuomo -- and I admit we 19 weren't critical of it at that time. We should 20 have been. I think it's wrong being done now by 21 Governor Pataki. It's wrong if it were done by 22 the Comptroller. I think we ought to ask our 23 public statewide elected officials -- they're 24 full-time employees of the people of the state 25 of New York. They should not be earning outside 2567 1 income, whether by giving speeches or practicing 2 law or selling insurance or selling real estate 3 or in any other way. 4 This bill would make it clear 5 that as elected officials, their sole and 6 exclusive compensation is from the people of the 7 state of New York by serving the people. 8 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 9 all in favor signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye".) 11 Those opposed, nay. 12 (Response of "Nay".) 13 The motion is defeated. 14 Yes, Senator Sampson. 15 SENATOR SAMPSON: Madam 16 President, I would like to be recorded in the 17 negative on Bill 309. 18 Thank you. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Without 20 objection. 21 Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Would 23 you call up, please, Senate 3490-A. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter, 25 could you please repeat that number. 2568 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: The number I 2 have is 3490-A. 3 THE PRESIDENT: In the meantime, 4 Senator Oppenheimer. 5 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Madam 6 President, I would like unanimous consent to be 7 recorded in the negative on 309. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Without 9 objection. 10 Senator Sampson. 11 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, Madam 12 President. I would like to be recorded in the 13 negative on Bill 406. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Without 15 objection. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 18 3490-A, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 19 Election Law and the County Law, in relation to 20 state takeover of responsibilities and duties. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Madam 23 President, the purpose of this bill is really to 24 modernize our election system throughout the 25 whole state. Elections in this state are 2569 1 chaotic. They certainly are particularly in my 2 city. 3 You remember last year the state 4 board -- not the state board, I'm sorry -- the 5 city Board of Elections of the Brooklyn office 6 failed to have election machines in a number of 7 election districts. It's appalling. If some of 8 the things that happen in our elections occurred 9 in underdeveloped countries, it would be 10 universally condemned and the United Nations or 11 somebody would send observers there to see that 12 the election was carried out in a fairer and 13 more democratic manner. 14 The problem is the political 15 Boards of Elections that we have, this bill 16 would make Boards of Elections under state 17 supervision a general governmental function no 18 longer controlled by the political parties by 19 having the political parties appoint the 20 commissioners of elections. It would also make 21 the state Board of Election more effective. 22 Right now, that state Board of Election is 23 highly ineffective, again because it's 24 controlled by the two political parties. It 25 would provide for the appointment of 2570 1 commissioners by the Governor for particular 2 terms subject to confirmation by the state 3 Senate. 4 There's no reason to have our 5 election machinery run essentially by the 6 political parties. It deserves to be a 7 governmental function, as it is in most states, 8 under the control of the government and free 9 from the sort of influence that now exists and, 10 as I pointed out, the result has been really 11 that our elections in this state have been not 12 only poorly run but it's been difficult for 13 candidates to get on the ballot. It's been 14 questionable whether campaign finance laws have 15 been enforced as they should have been 16 enforced. The whole machinery really doesn't 17 work, and this bill charts a new course, and I 18 think a proper course, that will give us a 19 fairer, more honest and more efficient elections 20 system. 21 Thank you. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 23 Senator Leichter. 24 On the motion, all in favor 25 please signify by saying aye. 2571 1 (Response of "Aye".) 2 Those opposed, nay. 3 (Response of "Nay".) 4 The motion is defeated. 5 Senator Farley. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: No. I'm just - 7 I have nothing to say. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Sorry. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 10 President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you call 13 up Senate 2994. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 15 will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 17 2994, by Senator Leichter, an act to amend the 18 State Finance Law, in relation to requiring that 19 budget bills making appropriations or 20 reparations. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah, Madam 23 President. I've saved the best for last. This 24 is the one that provides for the itemized 25 Legislative Budget. I think you've all heard 2572 1 the argument. I think you know how compelling 2 the arguments are for it but the Legislature, 3 like every other branch of government, ought to 4 have an itemized budget. 5 THE PRESIDENT: On the motion, 6 all in favor signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Those opposed, nay. 9 (Response of "Nay".) 10 The motion is defeated. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 12 the affirmative. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 14 the negative. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 24, nays 35. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The motion is 19 defeated. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Madam 22 President. If we could return to motions and 23 resolutions and take up Resolution 907 by 24 Senator Farley. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 2573 1 Senator Farley. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam 3 President. 4 Would you please read the 5 resolution in its entirety. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 7 will read the resolution - 8 SENATOR FARLEY: And then I would 9 like to speak to it. 10 THE PRESIDENT: -- in its 11 entirety. 12 THE SECRETARY: Legislative 13 Resolution, by Senators Farley, Bruno and 14 others, 907, honoring Richard J. Sauers upon his 15 outstanding career as coach of the University at 16 Albany Great Danes Men's Basketball Team. 17 WHEREAS, the state of New York 18 takes great pride in acknowledging those 19 individuals whose life work testifies to 20 extraordinary commitment to their profession and 21 to their community; and 22 WHEREAS, Richard J. "Doc" Sauers 23 will be retiring this year after having served 24 as coach of the men's basketball team at the 25 State University of New York at Albany for a 2574 1 period spanning 42 years; and 2 WHEREAS, greatly admired by his 3 colleagues, peers and players, "Doc" Sauers has 4 earned a reputation as one of the most respected 5 coaches in the country. His successful career 6 with the University at Albany Great Danes is a 7 tribute to his love for and commitment to the 8 sport of basketball. 9 Richard Sauers received his 10 Bachelor's of Science degree in physical 11 education from Slippery Rock State College. He 12 went on to earn a Master's degree in education 13 and a doctorate in physical education from 14 Pennsylvania State University. 15 This talented individual began 16 his long and distinguished career as head coach 17 at the University at Albany in 1955 when the 18 school was known as the New York State College 19 for Teachers at Albany. "Doc" Sauers went on to 20 coach the Great Danes for 41 seasons, of which 21 40 were winning seasons; and 22 WHEREAS, among his many 23 accomplishments during his notable tenure at the 24 University at Albany, in 1997,"Doc" Sauers 25 became one of only 11 coaches in the history of 2575 1 the National Collegiate Athletic Association to 2 reach 700 victories, finishing out his career 3 with a record of 702 against 330. In 1996, he 4 earned the distinction of becoming only the 15th 5 person to coach 1,000 games at the collegiate 6 level. 7 Coach Sauers brought the Great 8 Danes to the Division III tournament nine 9 times. He is also credited with preparing the 10 team for the transition to becoming a successful 11 Division II team. In the 1996-97 season, the 12 team's second year in Division II, he skillfully 13 led the Great Danes to a 17-10 finish. 14 "Doc" Sauers is well known and 15 admired among his peers for his game preparation 16 and for his ability to adapt his methods in 17 accordance with changing times. Under his 18 capable leadership, the Great Danes made it to 19 nine NCAA tournaments since 1975 and to four 20 National Association of Intercollegiate 21 Athletics tournaments prior to that. The team 22 also qualified for the Eastern College Athletic 23 Conference playoffs seven times, winning the 24 championship in 1978 and 1989. In 1993-94, the 25 team set a school record for victories when they 2576 1 finished the season 25 and 3; and 2 WHEREAS, in recognition of his 3 notable contributions to collegiate basketball, 4 Coach Sauers has been the recipient of numerous 5 awards. In 1985, he was named the NCAA Division 6 III Coach of the Year. He was also chosen as 7 the East Region and New York State Coach of the 8 Year three times. In 1992, this exceptional 9 individual was honored for his lifetime 10 contributions when he was inducted into the New 11 York State Basketball Hall of Fame. 12 In addition to his passion for 13 basketball, Coach Sauers is a dedicated family 14 man. His devoted wife of 32 years, Elaine, has 15 been a tremendous support to him throughout his 16 career. The couples' two loving children, 17 Cheryl and Stephen, along with their mother, 18 remain amongst his biggest fans. Stephen, who 19 played for his father in college and is 20 currently an assistant coach at Marist College, 21 is carrying on his father's tradition of 22 excellence. Upon his retirement, "Doc" Sauers 23 looks forwards to spending him with them and his 24 grandson Jordan; and 25 WHEREAS, through his long and 2577 1 sustained commitment to excellence in scholastic 2 coaching, Coach Sauers has so unselfishly 3 advanced that spirit of united purpose, fairness 4 and sportsmanship toward which we all aspire. 5 He has served as a positive role model for his 6 players over the years, many of whom have gone 7 on to emulate his methods of coaching in 8 positions of their own; now, therefore, be it 9 RESOLVED, that this legislative 10 body pause in its deliberations to commend 11 Richard "Doc" Sauers, coach of the University at 12 Albany Men's Basketball Team, upon the occasion 13 of his retirement after 42 years of outstanding 14 service to collegiate basketball; and be it 15 further 16 RESOLVED, that copies of this 17 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 18 to Richard J. Sauers and to Karen Hitchcock, 19 President of the University at Albany. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley. 21 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very 22 much, Madam President. 23 42 years as a coach, 41 winning 24 seasons, 702-330. Only 11 coaches in the 25 history of the nation of NCAA basketball have 2578 1 won 700 games. Dick Sauers and his lovely wife 2 who is in the gallery, Elaine, and his daughter 3 Cheryl and her husband and, of course, Dick, you 4 have been intimidated by a lot of foes but never 5 so much as having so many administrators and the 6 president in back of you, and so forth. The 7 gallery is just full of VIPs from my alma mater 8 and my university. Our dynamic new president, 9 Karen Hitchcock, is up there and probably the 10 most enthusiastic supporter of Great Dane 11 basketball, four vice-presidents, senior 12 administration staff and I understand -- I think 13 there's a couple players up there also, Tom 14 Goldrick and Rich Dormer, but let me just say 15 this. I've taught many of Dick Sauers' 16 players. He was concerned about their 17 academics. He was also concerned about their 18 entire being. 19 He has a lovely family and his 20 wife Elaine -- and I'm sure that like the spouse 21 of a politician, you have to be very patient and 22 somewhat have your own life because it's tough. 23 He spends a lot of time on the court and his two 24 children, Cheryl and Stephen, Stephen following 25 in his father's footsteps as an assistant coach 2579 1 of Marist and, of course, his grandson Jordan 2 who has not been mentioned but, you know, of all 3 his players that I have known, they are like 4 him. They have an affection for him. He has an 5 affection for his players and, believe me, he's 6 a tough task master. You know, he's also a 7 superb athlete, an outstanding handball player 8 and a great avid golfer. I'm sure he's going to 9 be doing more of that. 10 You know, yesterday the 11 University Senate at Albany, of which I was once 12 a member prior to this Senate, voted 30 to 10 to 13 go to Division I basketball. "Doc" Sauers led 14 that transition by going to Division II, having 15 last year gone successfully in a winning season 16 in his second year. 17 You know, this Senate has many 18 members who are Albany grad's and I know how 19 proud they are of "Doc" Sauers. He's a standard 20 of excellence in basketball coaches. He's a 21 standard of excellence as an educator and he's a 22 standard of excellence as a human being. 23 Congratulations, Dick. We're 24 very proud of you. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno. 2580 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam 2 President. 3 I am pleased to just rise and 4 follow Senator Farley and add my comments about 5 an individual who really personifies what all of 6 us would aspire to in terms of seeking 7 perfection -- perfection as relates to his own 8 life in the way he leads it and has led it, as 9 relates to his family, as to the academic 10 community and most certainly in the competitive 11 and yet sportsmanlike way he has coached and by 12 his own example led, and the bottom line is that 13 he is a winner and has won more than any other 14 coach here in this state in his career. 15 Now, that's something all of us 16 would like to at some time in our lives be able 17 to establish as a record that we have truly 18 excelled in our lives, in our chosen field and 19 in our work. 20 So I congratulate "Doc" Sauers 21 for his great achievements. They don't come 22 easily. It takes a lot to really be a winner 23 and keep winning, and he's done that. 24 So we're proud of him in this 25 community, proud that we have been able to share 2581 1 part of your experiences with you and we are 2 totally confident that you will go on in your 3 outstanding ways and continue to be the winner 4 and the shining example for all of us that we 5 can follow. 6 Thank you, Madam President. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 8 Senator Bruno. 9 Senator Breslin. 10 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 11 Madam President. 12 I am delighted to follow Senator 13 Farley and Senator Bruno in echoing their 14 comments about "Doc" Sauers. 15 It's a real honor for me to be 16 here to look up to a man who, over 35 years ago, 17 I played in a summer league with on the same 18 team and now to be looking up at him and 19 thinking of people like Red Auerbach and John 20 Wooden and Vince Lombardi as legends and I know 21 a legend sitting right up there, a man who's 22 brought great dignity to our Albany community as 23 a coach, as a father, as a husband and as a 24 wonderful human being. 25 So it's my personal delight, 2582 1 "Doc", to be here to see you honored, richly 2 honored. 3 Thank you. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Is there anyone 5 else who would like to speak on the motion -- on 6 the resolution? Excuse me. 7 (There was no response.) 8 On the resolution, all those in 9 favor please signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye".) 11 Opposed, nay. 12 Senator Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: I would like to 14 open up the resolution to anybody that would 15 like to co-sponsor it. As far as I'm 16 concerned - 17 SENATOR BRUNO: All on it other 18 than those by exception. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: The entire 20 Senate will sponsor it unless there's an 21 exception. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. The 23 resolution is adopted. 24 Senator Bruno. 25 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam 2583 1 President. 2 (Applause) 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate 4 welcomes "Doc" Sauers and his family and 5 President Hitchcock and all our SUNY guests. 6 Senator Bruno. 7 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 8 can we ask for an immediate meeting of the 9 Education Committee in Room 332. 10 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 11 immediate meeting of the Education Committee in 12 Room 332. 13 Senator Hoffmann. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Madam 15 President, I was out of the chamber at the time 16 the vote was called on Calendar 309 and Calendar 17 406. I would request unanimous consent to be 18 recorded in the negative on those two issues. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Without 20 objection. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam 22 President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 24 Dollinger. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I was also 2584 1 out of the chamber when a vote was taken on 2 Calendar Number 309. I would ask unanimous 3 consent to be recorded in the negative on that 4 bill. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Without 6 objection. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator. 9 SENATOR NANULA: Madam President, 10 I too was out of the chamber for Calendar 309, 11 and I would like to express unanimous consent to 12 be recorded in the negative on that. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Without 14 objection. 15 SENATOR ROSADO: I would like to 16 -- on Bill 309, I would like to be recorded in 17 the negative. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 19 Senator Rosado. Without objection. 20 Senator Abate. 21 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I would ask 22 that the reading of my motion to discharge, 23 Senate 2887, be waived and I'd like the 24 opportunity to speak on the motion. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 2585 1 will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 3 2887, by Senator Abate, an act to amend the 4 Insurance Law, in relation to health insurance 5 coverage. 6 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. I would 7 like the opportunity now to talk about why it is 8 so important for us as a chamber to move forward 9 on this motion to discharge on the Patients Fair 10 Appeals Act. Right now we have bipartisan 11 support in concept at least on this issue. 12 This is an issue that many of you 13 are aware of that the Lieutenant Governor has 14 crafted this legislation. I assisted her office 15 in the crafting of this legislation. We also 16 have a bill that's sponsored by Senator Stafford 17 who addresses some of these very important 18 issues. 19 I would like to applaud the 20 leadership of both the Lieutenant Governor and 21 Senator Stafford. If we follow their wisdom, we 22 have an opportunity today not just to debate 23 this very important issue but to move this issue 24 to the floor of the Senate for further 25 discussion and hopefully passage. 2586 1 This bill is critical. If you 2 came to many of the meetings that I have had and 3 press conferences with people who are suffering 4 from terminal illness, whether it be cancer or 5 multiple sclerosis or AIDS, people being faced 6 with life-threatening diseases, they are asking 7 for our help today and what this bill seeks to 8 do in two-fold is, one, to set uniform statewide 9 standards to help the Insurance Department, the 10 health management organizations, the HMOs, in 11 trying to set up these standards that are based 12 on quality, based on medical decisions on when 13 these medical and clinical trials, devices and 14 programs should be reimbursed. 15 This bill doesn't say that 16 quackery or something that does not need to be 17 reimbursed should be reimbursed. It doesn't say 18 that, if there is an acceptable and better, 19 non-investigative or non-experimental trial 20 program, it doesn't say to bypass those programs 21 and fund clinical trials. What it does is set 22 some standards so we can save more lives. 23 And the second part of it, which 24 is a critical part, talks about a fair right of 25 appeal. Let's set up a situation. You or a 2587 1 loved one is dying of cancer and you go to your 2 doctor and your doctor says if you enter into 3 this clinical trial and get this drug or 4 treatment, not only will the last two or three 5 years of your life be spent in less pain, not 6 only will you have a better quality of life so 7 you can share your last couple of years with 8 your family but maybe -- maybe this drug will 9 prolong your life or even save your life." Now, 10 should we allow the Insurance Department to 11 unilaterally be judge and jury and say to that 12 doctor, No, because of expense, this trial will 13 not be reimbursed? 14 What this bill does is set up an 15 independent review. It says in a situation 16 where a doctor recommends that a treatment be 17 provided to a patient, that an independent panel 18 of doctors, doctors who are selected by the 19 Insurance Department in consultation with the 20 Health Department, review the decision made by 21 the Insurance Department or the HMO. What's 22 irrational about that? That makes a lot of 23 sense because what we're saying is the bottom 24 line -- cost bottom line should not rule the day 25 if there is a possibility that someone's life 2588 1 could be saved and that there should be another 2 pressure look on that decision. If you were in 3 that situation personally or your loved one were 4 in that situation, you would want that 5 opportunity to have that independent review if 6 it meant the difference between life and death 7 for either you or your loved one. 8 Now, many people would argue, 9 this is too costly. While we don't have data 10 within New York State, we certainly have data 11 from other states that have tried these kinds of 12 programs. 13 Let me refer to some of the 14 data. Data taken by the leading member of the 15 President's National Health Care Panel, a 16 decision in Seattle, Washington found that the 17 costs would not increase more than one-half of 18 one percent and there is also a recent study by 19 the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Hospital which 20 looked at five types of cancers, pancreatic, 21 lung, breast, colon and ovarian cancer and for 22 patients with the same types of cancer in each 23 instance, these patients participating in 24 clinical trials had fewer readmissions, spent 25 less time in hospitals and the hospitals reduced 2589 1 the total costs incurred for each patient in the 2 trial. 3 So the reverse is, in fact, true, 4 that once we have clinical trials, this is a 5 form of prevention. It may mean not only 6 prolonging life but it may also mean reducing a 7 costly emergency and prolonged hospitalization. 8 So this makes sense in terms of 9 good, sound health care policy and it makes 10 sense in terms of dollars, in terms of the whole 11 health care system. 12 Why, we may ask, is there such 13 support, not only among consumers but the 14 medical profession? They recognize that if 15 we're going to advance our medical profession, 16 to be able to test these clinical trials, they 17 need to be reimbursed by the Insurance 18 Department. What they're saying is today's 19 experiment becomes tomorrow's cure. If we're 20 ever going to find a cure for cancer and other 21 deadly diseases, if we don't pass sensible 22 legislation such as this, it will mean more and 23 more people will die when they don't need to die 24 in the future. 25 So, again, many of the doctors 2590 1 that have come forward have begged this chamber 2 to support this legislation if we are going to 3 see advances in the medical research over the 4 long haul. 5 So this is imminently, I think, a 6 bill that we can put our partisanship behind 7 us. We can say that we need to advance the 8 medical profession, increase health care, 9 provide some kind of fair right of appeal so a 10 patient who, in the midst of their last days and 11 years, won't be denied critical health care 12 because an insurance company wants to override 13 the wisdom of a doctor. This is what this bill 14 is about. 15 It has received support from 16 labor groups, advocacy groups, including the 17 International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the 18 AFL-CIO, New York Labor/Religion Coalition, the 19 National Alliance of Breast Cancer 20 Organizations, the New York State Statewide 21 Senior Action Council, the Multiple Sclerosis 22 Society, the Association of the New York State 23 AIDS Community Service Programs, the United 24 Cerebral Palsy of New York State, Cancer Care, 25 the Capital District Coalition Support, Citizen 2591 1 Action, the Community Health Center Association, 2 Housing Works, the National Organization of 3 Women and the Women's Bar Association. 4 Finally, if we do pass this 5 legislation and discharge it out of committee, 6 what we are saying to our constituents is that 7 they should not be left with two choices, the 8 choice to dissipate all their income, their 9 family resources so they could have this 10 appropriate treatment, or the even worse choice 11 of foregoing this treatment because there is no 12 reimbursement and they face an early death. 13 Let's do the responsible thing 14 today. Let's protect and advance health care in 15 this state. This is not about money. Let's put 16 aside our differences and I urge everyone, and 17 particularly I look forward to working with 18 Senator Stafford, as well as the Lieutenant 19 Governor to see this bill, the concept of this 20 bill become the law, and I hope for the day when 21 we can celebrate the passage of legislation that 22 will protect patients throughout the state. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 24 Senator Abate. 25 Senator Gold. 2592 1 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam 2 President. 3 Madam President, this is one of 4 those times when I think of the expression we 5 hear so often in this chamber and we hear it in 6 other circumstances also. If we could save one 7 life. I think of the television cameras around 8 the hole with the child in the hole and how no 9 expense is too much, too great to save the child 10 as long as the television cameras are rolling, 11 and I think to myself, once we take away the 12 television cameras and one we get rid of the 13 press, isn't it a shame that we as lawmakers 14 can't just look at paper intellectually and 15 understand that those papers that are put in our 16 hands, if they become a law, can save not only 17 the one life but many, many lives. 18 In reflecting on the various 19 things we do as legislators, all of it is 20 important and we've had legislation. We had a 21 bill by Senator Kuhl today which helped a 22 particular group with its meetings and it is not 23 the -- perhaps the biggest bill we'll deal with 24 this session but it's important and Senator Kuhl 25 carried it, and I respect him for that. 2593 1 Everything we do is not of equal level. 2 New York, I'm proud to say, took 3 the leadership a number years ago and ordered 4 that pills and capsules be coated and labeled. 5 The pharmaceutical industry gave in to us. It 6 became national. It became international and, 7 as a result of what we did in this chamber a few 8 years ago, we have saved probably thousands of 9 people's lives. No television cameras, no 10 excitement. 11 There was a time in the 12 legislative history of New York when a very, 13 very brave, wonderful person by the name of Guy 14 Brewer stood up in the Assembly chamber to 15 debate a bill dealing with experimental 16 treatment and Guy was dying at the time, knew he 17 was dying and the argument that he made was, he 18 personally might not want to use the 19 experimental treatment but being there, knowing 20 his life was slipping away, he could not vote to 21 stop other people from having that opportunity 22 and that choice. I think that Guy Brewer on 23 that day was one of the most courageous people 24 I've seen in action. 25 I also think that we have a lady 2594 1 in this chamber -- two ladies in this chamber 2 who are very courageous on this issue. One 3 you've heard from, Senator Abate, and the other 4 one under our rules can't debate. That's our 5 Lieutenant Governor, who has put this issue 6 beyond politics and who has said that "I am the 7 Lieutenant Governor. I have a mind. I have a 8 voice. I have ideas and they're going to be 9 heard," and if the Republican Party is -- can't 10 take an intelligent woman in its midst, well, 11 the public at-large can and this issue is now 12 out there, and what are we saying? We're saying 13 that doctors have rights. We're saying patients 14 have even more rights and while insurance 15 companies have rights and money, we have to do 16 the balancing act here. 17 Everything we do here that is a 18 balancing act with money has an effect. In our 19 budget negotiations, we are talking about taking 20 people on welfare and cutting benefits and 21 telling them to work and some of us say that 22 sounds great except where are the jobs, and can 23 we afford this and we heard earlier today 24 Senator Holland telling us that we should be 25 taking some money away from working people. We 2595 1 can't afford it. 2 What we're talking about now is a 3 situation where this bill deals not only with 4 human life but it deals with a humane answer to 5 a human problem and it says that people in pain, 6 families in pain should have a choice to do 7 something about that pain. 8 Now, the choice may not work. It 9 may be that the selection they make does not 10 save their life. It may be that the selection 11 they make does not increase their days but there 12 isn't one person in this room who doesn't know 13 in their heart and believe that serious illness 14 affects not only the individual but the entire 15 family and hope is something which eases pain 16 and hope is something which allows human beings 17 to cope with the problems that human beings face 18 on a day-to-day basis. 19 This bill is an extraordinary 20 step in that direction, and I tell you very 21 sincerely that, if this bill were coming out of 22 committee and on the floor of this house and the 23 lead name on it was Senator Stafford, I would be 24 extraordinarily proud of that bill and I would 25 be extraordinarily proud as I am in many cases 2596 1 with Senator Stafford for taking leadership and 2 we can vote for it and we can do it, but I say 3 to my colleagues, that the methodology of bring 4 ing this issue to the floor is unimportant. The 5 sponsorship is unimportant. I cannot believe 6 that any man or woman in this chamber doesn't 7 feel in their heart that one of the reasons that 8 they give up so much time and energy for public 9 service is to alleviate human pain and human 10 suffering. 11 We have an opportunity to do it 12 today, thanks to Senator Abate and thanks to our 13 Lieutenant Governor, our President, and we would 14 be foolish not to take the opportunity to do 15 it. We could never look people in the eye who 16 were in pain, families who are in pain, and tell 17 any one of them that they could not ease the 18 pain because the issue is brought up by a 19 motion, or the issue is brought up by a 20 Democrat. They would look you in the eye and 21 say "You are nuts. You got to be crazy." You 22 refuse to alleviate human pain and suffering 23 because of Senate rules, Senate procedure, 24 Senate history. 25 I don't believe, as I look upon 2597 1 the Republican side of this aisle, that there is 2 evil in any heart or that there is a lack of 3 compassion, but the bottom line is that if you 4 get on a road, don't be surprised if that road 5 takes you to where it's going and if the road 6 that you are going to get on is a road which 7 says that no motions pass in this house, even if 8 it means human suffering, then, in fact, you are 9 guilty, each and every one of you who votes 10 against this motion, for the pain that is 11 suffered by people as a result of the motion not 12 passing. 13 I sincerely hope that we get past 14 all of that, that we get past all of that and 15 that this motion is given an approval and that 16 this issue has the light of day and more 17 importantly becomes law. 18 Thank you. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 20 Senator Gold. 21 Senator Nanula. 22 SENATOR NANULA: Madam President, 23 thank you. On the motion. 24 I'm standing in support of this 25 motion and I'm not going to address the very 2598 1 eloquent statements of Senator Gold in regards 2 to the partisan nature, so to speak, of this 3 motion relative to the fact that it is coming 4 from this side of the aisle and it is a motion 5 as opposed to a piece of legislation coming to 6 the floor out of committee from the other side 7 of the aisle. 8 One thing in particular I do want 9 to point to and reinforce, which I as the 10 ranking Democrat on the Insurance Committee feel 11 is a significant step forward, is the impartial 12 nature of the review process and more 13 fundamentally, that a review process is being 14 put in place. 15 There have been significant 16 concerns expressed primarily by the medical 17 society and physicians in general in regards to 18 there not being a formal review process for a 19 number of conditions denied to patients by 20 HMOs. 21 Certainly, in regards to medical 22 conditions that are life threatening, without 23 there being an appeal process, at least in my 24 opinion, I believe that is unconscionable and I 25 also believe in regards to this appeal process 2599 1 structurally and the concept of the Department 2 of Insurance, a public sector entity selecting 3 the physicians as opposed to the HMO industry 4 or, quite frankly, even the physicians selecting 5 a physician is a good approach. It's an 6 approach that, again, reinforces impartiality 7 which, again, I believe is very important. 8 I also believe in regards to this 9 issue specifically, this could be a great first 10 step, a needed first step for those among us 11 facing critical, life-threatening illness to 12 bring forward a larger debate on the issue of 13 fair and unbiased review. 14 Again, it has been expressed by 15 the Medical Society. It has been expressed by 16 HMO patients and customers and expressed by 17 physicians. I think that certainly this aspect 18 of the legislation, the proposed legislation, is 19 a great step forward in terms of that broader 20 issue. 21 For those reasons and for many 22 others, I want to commend you, Lieutenant 23 Governor, and you, Senator Abate, for bringing 24 this issue, at least in this format to the 25 floor, and I urge my colleagues' support. 2600 1 Thank you. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 3 Senator Breslin. 4 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 5 Madam President. 6 I would like to echo the comments 7 made by my colleague, Senator Gold, my 8 colleague, Senator Abate and praising you, the 9 President and the Governor, for your 10 courageousness along with Senator Abate in 11 bringing this to the floor. 12 In my several months here, I have 13 had the opportunity to vote on various measures 14 dealing with changes in the Vehicle and Traffic 15 Law, some agricultural problems and now I have a 16 chance to save lives. 17 So I urge all of you to join with 18 me. What more noble reason could we be here 19 than to save at least one life, but it isn't one 20 life. It's many lives and, as Senator Gold 21 said, much pain. 22 So I urge you to not make it 23 partisan but think about the ramifications of 24 this legislation. 25 Thank you. 2601 1 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 2 Senator Breslin. 3 Is there anyone else who would 4 like to speak -- oh, I'm sorry. Senator 5 Dollinger, I didn't see you. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 7 Madam President. 8 I rise too in support of this 9 motion to discharge, although I have to admit, I 10 wish this debate was going to be seen by more 11 people in this state. There might have been a 12 possibility of that if Inside Albany had been 13 allowed to come up and put its cameras up on the 14 west side of the chamber, although I understand 15 from information through counsel, that we don't 16 have the staff available today to allow them to 17 go up there. 18 I find it amazing that yesterday 19 when we did a motion to discharge, we somehow 20 found the funds available to put, I believe 21 there were nine members of the State Police in 22 that very gallery to watch, oh, 80 to 100 23 tenants who had come down for a motion to 24 discharge, all of whom had been through metal 25 detectors. So we had lots of resources 2602 1 yesterday. We don't have resources today and as 2 a consequence, the people of this state don't 3 get to hear Senator Abate, don't get to hear 4 Senator Gold who talked about the compassion 5 that is a part of this, Senator Nanula to talk 6 about the fairness that is imbedded in this 7 proposal and Senator Breslin right here in 8 Albany to talk about many of those same 9 concepts. 10 I want to address one issue that 11 is in part of this bill. I think Senator Gold's 12 eloquent comments about human suffering are 13 right on the nose. 14 I'll give you a personal example, 15 Senator. I represented two families in New York 16 State who were families of children with 17 epilepsy. They were suffering from about three 18 episodes -- excuse me -- about two episodes a 19 day of epileptic seizures. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 21 if I could just interrupt Senator Dollinger in 22 case he wants to wait a minute. Inside Albany 23 is now here. So if you want to save your 24 comments for Inside Albany -- I know you don't 25 care about the media or press or anything like 2603 1 that, but I just wanted to alert - 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Madam 3 President, I had the floor. I don't know 4 whether Senator Skelos, with all due respect, is 5 in order. 6 THE PRESIDENT: That's right. 7 Thank you, Senator Dollinger. Please continue. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Anyway, as I 9 was speaking, Senator Gold, I represented a 10 family that had about two seizures per day. 11 They had to go to Minnesota in order to have a 12 specialized surgery to allow them to reduce the 13 incidents of epileptic seizure. As a 14 consequence of that -- as a consequence of that 15 surgery, they went from a couple seizures a day 16 to a couple seizures a month. The insurance 17 company wouldn't pay for it because it was 18 considered experimental therapy, considered a 19 clinical trial. We went to litigation with that 20 insurance company and were able to finally get 21 them to agree to cover about 80 percent of the 22 costs, but the difference in quality of life for 23 those children to go from a couple episodes a 24 day to a couple episodes a month was just 25 unbelievable. That alone, that one episode in 2604 1 my past would make this bill worth passing. 2 Let me give you another reason 3 why this bill ought to be on the floor today and 4 it's because it's in New York State's best 5 interest and its economy's best interest that 6 this bill become a part of our law. 7 The science and technology that's 8 a part of experimental therapy is what we want 9 in this state. We want people to be 10 experimenting with therapies. We want them to 11 bring high technology, drug therapy to this 12 state. We want to be able to bring those 13 businesses -- I'll give you one good example. 14 Praxis Biological. A physician at the 15 University of Rochester a decade ago created a 16 new vaccine for whooping cough, a fabulously 17 successful vaccine. The plant is now in North 18 Carolina. If we pass this legislation to allow 19 the clinical trials and to allow the payment for 20 experimentation with that vaccine, we could 21 bring them back here. We would give an 22 incentive to bring those jobs back here. These 23 are the kinds of high technology new jobs that 24 we want in New York State. Let's pass this bill 25 and give an incentive for the scientific process 2605 1 to work. 2 And I would point out that 3 experimental therapy doesn't mean that if the 4 experiment fails, that we fail when we pay for 5 it. I'm always reminded of that little example 6 I learned in high school about someone who is 7 trying to come up with a solution to something 8 and was growing, found out that he kept growing 9 and spinning -- cutting the mold off of the top 10 of his experiment and throwing it away. The 11 mold wasn't any good until he figured out that 12 the mold was the basis for penicillin discovered 13 almost through accident. We learn something 14 from experimental therapy, whether it succeeds 15 or whether it fails. It's the part of our 16 scientific process. 17 It seems to me if we want to 18 bring the science and technology of medicine and 19 health care to New York State, to give them a 20 receptive place, to create an incentive for it 21 to occur here and not somewhere else, to bring 22 businesses back to New York State, I've heard 23 that rhetoric from the other side of the aisle 24 until I'm blue in the face but yet now we have a 25 chance to do something about it. We can pass 2606 1 this bill. Make experimental therapy, clinical 2 trials, let them be paid through this kind of 3 legislation. 4 This is the right thing to do. 5 It's the right thing to do for our economy. It 6 will create jobs. Put the bill on the floor. 7 Vote in favor of this motion to discharge. 8 Let's drop the political gobbledygook that 9 confuses our citizens but we all understand. 10 Here's your chance. Pass the 11 bill now. We can get it through the other 12 house. The Lieutenant Governor, Senator Abate 13 and Senator Stafford can carry it down to the 14 Governor's desk. I'm sure he'll sign it because 15 he understands the importance of creating these 16 jobs. We'll have a law. We'll have it in place 17 and then we can give kudos to those who have 18 been responsible. 19 Thank you, Madam President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator Dollinger. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 24 there will be a immediate meeting of the 25 Children and Families Committee in Room 332 of 2607 1 the Capitol. 2 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 3 immediate meeting of the Children and Families 4 Committee in Room 332. 5 Senator Oppenheimer. 6 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I'm 7 practically a co-sponsor with you and Senator 8 Abate on this bill and everybody seems to be 9 talking a specific aspect of this and while I 10 certainly support what Senator Dollinger said 11 about the potential for economic development and 12 job creation through such a bill and surely in 13 my county that is an area that we have been 14 pursuing with great interest, which is the 15 biotechnical research, but I want to look at 16 another aspect and Senator Dollinger said 17 talking personally, and I would like to say that 18 talking personally, there are several of us in 19 this chamber who have benefited from medical 20 research and are here because of that research. 21 I think that there is no advance in scientific 22 knowledge unless we have this kind of 23 experimental research going on. 24 Senator Gold talked about the 25 human suffering. I would like to talk about the 2608 1 broader picture of how we advance medical 2 knowledge and the only way to advance medical 3 knowledge is through such research. I think 4 most fundamental is that without research, we 5 have no advance in our medical treatments and we 6 are so much so now in the forefront of medical 7 research and it is a place that has put us in 8 advance of almost any other nation in the 9 world. So I think both from the economic point 10 of view, yes, from the human suffering point of 11 view and for the general advancement of medical 12 knowledge, we really must pursue this. 13 The other point I would like to 14 make is that we have been talking over and over 15 again about insurance companies rather than the 16 doctors who are making the medical decisions and 17 the right of appeal to a group that is both 18 judge and jury really does not give you a fair 19 hearing. 20 So for both aspects of this bill, 21 I applaud you and I'm happy to co-sponsor it and 22 I hope there will be a time, perhaps in the 23 immediate future, when the other side of the 24 aisle will accept this bill also as their bill. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 2609 1 Senator Oppenheimer. 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 A number of individuals have 6 worked on this piece of legislation -- not this 7 particular piece of legislation but this issue 8 which is manifested by this piece of 9 legislation. Certainly we've congratulated 10 Senator Stafford, the Lieutenant Governor, Betsy 11 McCaughey. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, 13 Senator Paterson. 14 Could we have it a little 15 quieter, please, so we can all hear Senator 16 Paterson? 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Yeah. I was 18 saying Lieutenant Governor Betsy McCaughey and 19 the other individuals who have worked so hard on 20 this piece of legislation, particularly Senator 21 Abate, and I was wondering if Senator Abate 22 would yield for a question. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Abate. 24 SENATOR ABATE: I would be 25 pleased to yield to Senator Paterson's question 2610 1 or questions. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Abate, 3 this is a motion to discharge and, as I see it, 4 this -- and as the Senate rules state, this is 5 not a procedure. I keep hearing people talking 6 about a procedure. This is a motion that is a 7 motion in the sense that any piece of 8 legislation is moved, but what it does is it 9 discharges this bill from committee. It passes 10 through the Senate and is then sent to the 11 Assembly. It does three things and, therefore, 12 since I see this as action on legislation and so 13 do the Senate rules, I thought it would only be 14 appropriate that we discuss it as a bill and 15 that those who have, for their own reasons, 16 decided to look at it a different way, be 17 represented in this conversation that I have 18 taken it upon myself to represent them and my 19 question is, there are a lot of insurance 20 companies. There are a lot of HMOs. There are 21 a lot of people who are concerned that the 22 alternative treatments that are suggested by 23 this possible legislation would do two things: 24 One would be to increase 25 premiums. It would make it costly on the part 2611 1 of those who are seeking insurance and secondly, 2 that many of the medicines and the medications 3 that would be prescribed would, in many senses, 4 raise false hope. They would get people to 5 think that there is a cure when, in fact, there 6 may not be a reasonable degree of medical 7 certainty that the legis... that the medicine is 8 going to be effective, and I was wondering if 9 you would clear the air on those issues and 10 respond to those possibilities. 11 SENATOR ABATE: I would be 12 pleased to respond. As I had said before, if we 13 look at what has occurred around the country 14 through their existing studies and practices, 15 that costs do not rise with patient 16 participation and clinical trials. In fact, if 17 you look at the Sloan-Kettering study, if you 18 look at the studies in Rhode Island and 19 Washington State, they found the reverse. In 20 fact, it became a prevention and allowed people 21 to stay in their homes longer. It avoided 22 costly and prolonged hospitalization. There 23 were built-in savings, not the reverse. So 24 everyone's feel is it will not, in fact, become 25 the reality. 2612 1 If you look at the study done 2 again by the President's national health care 3 panel -- and this is a physician out of Seattle, 4 Washington -- again they found that the costs 5 would not increase more than one-half of one 6 percent. 7 Now, when we passed legislation 8 recently -- and it was wonderful legislation - 9 that said there should be coverage for 10 mammograms and breast cancer diagnosis, we 11 didn't ask, Well, will this cost a little bit 12 more money? We appropriately responded and said 13 there's certain things we need to do is put life 14 over money and when the arguments here are it 15 won't cost that much more money, then the 16 arguments are that much more compelling for us 17 to move this forward. 18 So the cost factor has been 19 considered. There's experience and 20 documentation around the country. Of course, we 21 have to be concerned with dollars. I mean, 22 that's why we're moving into managed care but 23 there's nothing irresponsible in terms of cost 24 about this bill. 25 In terms of quackery, what this 2613 1 bill does instead is sets statewide standards 2 around what should be reimbursed so that things 3 that are not approved by medical associations do 4 not become reimbursable. 5 Right in the bill it talks about 6 which devices and treatments and drugs should be 7 reimbursed. It's when a drug or device has been 8 recognized for treatment of a specific disease 9 or condition in the American Medical Association 10 drug evaluation, the American Hospital Formulary 11 Service Drug Information or the United States 12 pharmaceutical drug information or is it one 13 that's covered by the ADAP program, or is it one 14 where it's a drug or device which is recommended 15 for such use by an article or editorial comment, 16 in a peer reviewed medical or scientific 17 journal, or is the device an ongoing clinical 18 trial approved by the Food and Drug 19 Administration? 20 So we're not talking about 21 quackery. We're not talking about spending 22 unnecessarily needed resources to save and help 23 to prolong people's lives. This is 24 cost-effective. It is sound health care 25 policy. This is about putting patients first. 2614 1 And let me just remind everyone 2 that this is a fair right of appeal. What we 3 are saying is that the insurance companies 4 should not have the final word, particularly in 5 situations where doctors are recommending based 6 on sound medical decisions that someone should 7 receive a clinical trial. 8 What this bill is saying, there 9 needs to be an independent review so that we - 10 patients will be in a position to live a few 11 more years in quality or maybe see their lives 12 saved all together. 13 I hope that responded to your 14 question. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Very well, 17 indeed. 18 Madam President, Senator Abate 19 should know that when I was a teenager, I fell 20 on the school playground and they -- the school 21 authorities took me to the hospital and they 22 took an X-ray and they called up my parents and 23 they said X-rays of David Paterson's head showed 24 nothing, but while I was being examined, the 25 doctor told me that the X-ray was actually 2615 1 invented in a butcher shop when someone turned 2 an infrared light -- or an ultraviolet light on 3 the meat and it was actually the vision of the 4 individual that made them realize what the value 5 of this accident had actually produced, and 6 that's what they call in medicine serendipity 7 and Senator Dollinger referred to it earlier in 8 terms of the discovery of penicillin and Dr. 9 Jonas Salk used it in the invention of the Salk 10 vaccine. Actually, one of Dr. Salk's students 11 sued him, claiming that he had actually 12 discovered the Salk vaccine but it was revealed 13 in the court case that there had actually been 14 over 100 students that were testing different 15 types of solutions and this was just the one 16 that produced the vaccine. It was actually the 17 doctor who supervised the examination that 18 produced the vaccine. So what we find as the 19 colloquialism tells us that necessity is the 20 mother of invention. 21 What often happens in our society 22 -- and it's no one's fault. It's not the fault 23 of any HMO. It's not the fault of any insurance 24 company and it's not the fault of any agency 25 that involves health care, but we 2616 1 institutionalize our processes. We become used 2 to certain methods in which we try to fight 3 diseases and viruses, and we've done that 4 particularly with cancer and the HIV virus but 5 to such an extent and we become so heavily 6 dependent on these institutions that often we 7 lose sight of the fact that we haven't found a 8 cure for these maladies that are killing so many 9 people far before the time that they should have 10 lived. 11 And so by passing this piece of 12 legislation, we would actually be opening the 13 door to allowing our best and our brightest to 14 go after these viruses and to go after these 15 diseases and to give them the greatest chance to 16 cure the necessity that we seek through 17 invention. 18 Unfortunately, it is historical 19 that societies have never really stood behind 20 those who went where others had not gone to 21 actually try to alleviate some of the maladies 22 of their time. 23 Thousands of years ago somebody 24 invented fire and, although I think they were 25 probably burned at the stake that they taught 2617 1 their brothers and sisters to light, they 2 offered the world a gift and forever lifted 3 darkness from the face of the earth, but if you 4 examine history throughout the centuries, there 5 have been men and women who took steps down new 6 roads armed with nothing but their own vision. 7 The great inventors, the 8 thinkers, the artists, the scientists stood 9 alone against the societies of their time. 10 Every new thought was opposed. Every new 11 invention was denounced but these people who had 12 an unbarred vision went ahead. They fought, 13 they suffered and they paid but they won and 14 what they won are all of the inventions and all 15 of the man and woman made cure to maladies of 16 our time and of times before that make it 17 possible for us to stand here today and what 18 Senator Abate is offering is an opportunity for 19 us to discharge this legislation and to give 20 those who are able to find remedies to these 21 unfortunate situations, these diseases and 22 maladies that are so crippling our society, to 23 give them a chance and to give the families of 24 the suffering an alternative when the insurance 25 company or when some body feels that it isn't 2618 1 cost-effective to go forward with another 2 treatment. It gives them hope. That's what 3 this legislation does and I beg, Madam 4 President, that it passes. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 6 Senator Paterson. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Madam 9 President. Are there any other speakers? 10 THE PRESIDENT: Would anyone else 11 like to speak on the motion to discharge? 12 (There was no response.) 13 SENATOR SKELOS: I understand, 14 Madam President, that the Minority will be 15 calling for a slow roll call. So prior to the 16 vote, I just want to clarify a couple of 17 things. 18 Senator Gold mentioned that the 19 Republican Party is not prepared to take the 20 ideas of bright women. Let me say, I'm willing 21 to take the ideas of our bright Senator Rath any 22 time who has a wonderful future in our party and 23 I also want to clarify the fact that Senator 24 Paterson, my good friend, indicated that it's 25 not procedural but a motion is merely to bring 2619 1 the bill to the floor for consideration by 2 bypassing the committee process. A vote on the 3 motion is not a vote on the merits of the bill. 4 A vote on the motion is merely a vote on whether 5 the normal procedure under the rules should be 6 suspended or not. 7 One of the things about our 8 Majority is that we are result-oriented. We've 9 ended drive-through mastectomies. We're paying 10 now for reconstructive breast surgery, for 11 mastectomies, pesticide registry bill, 48-hour 12 maternity, baby AIDS bill and let me just say 13 this. As far as I'm concerned, I am going to 14 vote against this motion to discharge because I 15 would prefer to work with Senator Stafford on 16 this legislation as so many other people because 17 of his sensitivity and his personal knowledge in 18 this area, and I am confident that in the near 19 future there will be a bill as those that I have 20 enumerated that this Majority will be voting for 21 on the merits rather than a procedural vote 22 which is merely political pandering. 23 So I would urge the members of 24 the majority to defeat this motion. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 2620 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 2 Madam President. 3 I think that those who are 4 benefiting from the passage of this legislation 5 would never remember or care whose name is on 6 it. I don't think it makes any difference whose 7 name is on it. 8 The vote we're going to take 9 right now is because Senator Abate has moved to 10 discharge this legislation because this is an 11 issue that's affecting people right now. 12 Anybody else that has a bill, anyone else that 13 has a suggestion, anyone else that has an answer 14 could have brought it to the floor today. The 15 fastest way to get relief from this particular 16 problem, with all due respect to those who have 17 worked on it -- and I thought that many members 18 from this side of the aisle pointed out the 19 extraordinary work that Senator Stafford has 20 performed and the very adroit proposal that the 21 Lieutenant Governor has made and what we're 22 saying is that this legislation is here and 23 now. We are result-oriented, and if this motion 24 for discharge is sustained by an affirmative 25 vote, then this bill can go to the Assembly this 2621 1 afternoon and the results will inure to the 2 benefit of people and will inure before the sun 3 falls from the sky today. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Will Senator 5 Paterson yield? 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 8 Paterson, if there was a -- if the motion to 9 discharge passed, are you saying that the bill 10 would automatically go to the Assembly? 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, that's 13 my reading of the rules, Senator. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: It's my 15 understanding that - 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 17 please direct your question to the Chair. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 19 it's my understanding that the bill, if the 20 motion did pass, would be placed on the calendar 21 but there would be no requirement under our 22 rules to take up the bill at that time. 23 All a motion to discharge is is a 24 process by which you prematurely want to 25 discharge a committee and a committee chair from 2622 1 their responsibility in eventually reporting or 2 not reporting a bill to the floor. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 5 Madam President. 6 I'm very glad that Senator Skelos 7 asked that question because it gives us a chance 8 to clear that up. There's been some, I guess, 9 dispute among people who have a good reading of 10 legislation. I've let you know what I think it 11 does. I think that it will pass the legislation 12 and it will go to the Assembly. 13 Senator Skelos very eloquently 14 stated that he thinks it will just bring the 15 legislation to the floor. Right after this 16 motion to discharge passes, maybe we'll get up 17 and we'll have another discussion as to what we 18 should do then. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would the 21 distinguished Deputy Majority Leader yield to 22 one question, please? 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Senator 25 Gold. 2623 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Skelos, I 2 don't care about the technicality of the rule. 3 I want to ask you a question. 4 Are you saying to the public and 5 to this chamber that if 31 or more members of 6 this chamber voted to discharge a bill from 7 committee, that the Majority Leader would then 8 say "Yeah, yeah," to all of you and not bring it 9 up for a vote, that the Majority Leader would 10 say in spite of the fact that we have now broken 11 some precedent and brought it out and it's there 12 ready for action, I'm not going to pass it 13 because it didn't come through my committee? 14 Are you saying that? 15 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm not saying 16 that. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Then what's the 18 difference? 19 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm saying that 20 there is a committee process that exists in the 21 Senate and when the committee makes its decision 22 as to whether a bill should come to the floor or 23 not, then there would be a vote on the merits. 24 This is merely a procedural charade on the part 25 of the Minority. 2624 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. We don't 3 have to go back and forth, Senator. We both 4 understand this situation. 5 The fact remains that if 31 6 people today voted to put this bill out of 7 committee, then the Majority Leader, on his 8 birthday, I think would respect the fact that we 9 wanted that to be a law and that we would all 10 vote it and it would be out of here, and whether 11 you do it in one vote or whether you do it in 12 two votes is irrelevant. The fact of the matter 13 is that we could be saving pain. We could be 14 saving lives. We could be doing something 15 significant. 16 We have that opportunity, whether 17 it's one vote or two and, Senator Skelos, if you 18 want me to vote once on the motion and you want 19 me to vote once on the bill or you want me to 20 vote four times on the bill, it doesn't mean a 21 damn because I'm ready to do it and there are 22 other people who are here ready to do it also. 23 Just let us get to 31 and we'll make it a law. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Is there anyone 25 else who cares to speak on the motion? 2625 1 Senator Abate. 2 SENATOR ABATE: I feel compelled 3 to rise again. Today is another rude reminder 4 of why we need to change the way we do 5 business. I am very proud to say that I look 6 forward in the future to work with my Republican 7 colleague to make sure we produce change that 8 affects positively the lives of people in this 9 state. 10 If we get to the point where 11 Republicans can only work with Republicans, 12 which was suggested today and Democrats with 13 Democrats and don't in issues where we need to 14 put our politics aside, we will not be 15 fulfilling our responsibilities for whom those 16 people have elected us. 17 So I look forward to the day 18 where we can change the way we do business. 19 When we agree about an issue, whether we're 20 Republican and we think a Democratic idea is 21 good, we stand up and have the courage to say 22 let's do that because it's good for the people 23 of the state of New York, or if I'm a Democrat 24 and I want to applaud an appointment by the 25 Governor or applaud a piece of legislation 2626 1 that's sponsored by a Republican, I have the 2 courage to do the same. When we all do that and 3 we change the way we do business, we will not 4 only be serving ourselves better in continuing 5 the integrity of this body but also be 6 fulfilling our responsibilities to the state, 7 and all I can say is but for the grace of God, 8 some day either we ourselves or a loved one will 9 desperately need the passage of this bill and 10 the protection this bill affords. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 13 President, under our state Constitution, under 14 Article IV, Section 2, the Governor is vested a 15 number of broad supervisory powers and in 16 emergencies, we suspend a lot of rules because 17 we don't have time to go through our normal 18 processes and we take the highest ranking state 19 official and invest a lot of trust in that 20 individual who is elected because we understand 21 that there is a need for immediate action. 22 What we're saying through the 23 offer of Senator Abate's proposal is that this 24 is an emergency for a cancer patient. Every day 25 of delay is tantamount to another denial and to 2627 1 a shortened life and what we're saying to people 2 who are experiencing the peril right now is that 3 we don't have time to wait for debate of what 4 really to them must be some really pedantic 5 procedures. We have to act now. 6 That's why Senator Abate brought 7 this motion to discharge here today. That's why 8 I don't think we should talk about it any 9 longer. We would like to vote. We would like 10 there to be a slow roll call. We urge that this 11 pass. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 14 I know there's been a slow roll call requested. 15 Prior to the beginning of the roll call, there 16 will be an immediate meeting of the EnCon 17 Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 18 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 19 immediate meeting of the EnCon Committee in Room 20 332 of the Capitol. 21 Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 23 President, due to a long session today, both 24 Senator Mendez and Senator Stavisky are going to 25 be forced to leave. May we call their names and 2628 1 allow them to vote on this roll call? 2 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. No 3 objection. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Perhaps what we 5 can do is call their names and then members of 6 the EnCon Committee who wish to attend that 7 meeting could also be recorded. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Madam 9 President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann. 11 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. I'm a 12 member of the EnCon Committee, but I'm also very 13 supportive and interested in the outcome of the 14 slow roll call that will take place on this 15 motion for discharge, and I would just ask that 16 the Senate could stand at ease for a few moments 17 until we complete the EnCon meeting or the EnCon 18 meeting could be postponed until after session. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Continue with 20 the slow roll call. 21 THE PRESIDENT: We'll postpone 22 the EnCon meeting then. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 24 I'm not clear on what the -- what 25 the Deputy Majority Leader is suggesting. 2629 1 SENATOR SKELOS: We will start 2 the slow roll call and prior to that, Senator 3 Stavisky has asked to vote, Senator Mendez has 4 asked to vote and then any EnCon Committee 5 member who would like to vote will record their 6 votes and then we'll continue with the slow roll 7 call in normal order. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 9 President. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I would just 12 like to ask the Deputy Majority Leader, why 13 can't we wait five, ten minutes until the EnCon 14 Committee -- and have the EnCon Committee meet 15 at the end of the slow roll call? 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 17 President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: I had asked 20 out of courtesy to Senator Mendez and to Senator 21 Stavisky who have been waiting patiently that we 22 have their names called. Can we have their 23 names called before - 24 SENATOR SKELOS: I think what we 25 will do, Madam President, is if there's an 2630 1 understanding that all of the members on the 2 EnCon Committee, including Senator Stavisky and 3 Mendez wish to vote, we will accommodate that. 4 If not, we can just go by a slow roll call 5 accommodating nobody. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 7 President. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 10 President, I understand. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 12 will call the roll. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Stavisky. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Marcellino. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Tully. 24 SENATOR TULLY: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson. 2631 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoffmann. 3 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I would like 4 to have my name called to explain my vote. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator 6 Hoffmann. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 8 I do believe the question that I 9 asked was a very reasonable one and it troubles 10 me that the New York State Senate, which seems 11 to have so much difficulty meeting ordinary 12 timetables such as the April 1st deadline, can't 13 respect the interests of those members of the 14 EnCon Committee who would also like to be 15 present for a slow roll call. It seems to me a 16 reasonable thing to do and in a chamber that is 17 lately preoccupied with procedure to the Nth 18 degree, I take it as a great disappointment and 19 as a slight to those people who are concerned 20 both about procedure, about democracy in its 21 finest sense and about the environment, that we 22 must make a rather unfortunate choice. 23 I will vote in favor of the 24 motion to discharge. A compliment to Senator 25 Abate and the Lieutenant Governor for having 2632 1 brought a very important issue forward that 2 unfortunately is not getting the attention that 3 it deserves because the leadership of this house 4 has chosen to relegate it to a position of 5 non-meaning, forcing us to go through what is a 6 parliamentary procedure instead of allowing it 7 to be debated openly and fairly as though it had 8 some merit to everyone in the state. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Continue the roll 10 call, please. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 12 SENATOR TRUNZO: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me. 15 Senator Leichter, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I'm a 17 member of the EnCon Committee and I would like 18 to explain my vote before casting my vote. 19 Madam President, I think to force 20 a meeting of the EnCon Committee at the same 21 time that the roll call is being held shows 22 really the disregard and the callousness that 23 the Majority has to this very important bill and 24 to this very important issue. There is 25 absolutely no reason that the EnCon Committee 2633 1 could not have waited 15 - 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter, 3 excuse me. I'm very sorry to interrupt you. 4 You will be the next speaker but we had already 5 called Senator Wright's name and he also wants 6 to go. 7 Would you mind deferring to 8 Senator Wright? 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: I would be 10 delighted to yield to Senator Wright. 11 THE PRESIDENT: I'm very sorry. 12 Senator Wright, would you like to 13 vote and then leave? 14 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Madam 15 President. 16 I vote no. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Leichter, 18 thank you. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Madam 20 President, you know, we hear a lot about order, 21 and so on. All I see is chaos and disorder. 22 Why schedule a meeting at the very same time 23 that we're having a roll call on a very 24 important issue? The only conclusion to be 25 drawn is that the Republican Majority doesn't 2634 1 care about this issue. 2 Let me also say that on a motion 3 to discharge, this idea that they're somehow 4 unimportant and they're just procedural, and so 5 on, I don't know what that means. All I know is 6 that yesterday if four members who claim that 7 they support rent regulations had voted with the 8 -- those of us who supported the motion to 9 discharge, that motion would have passed and the 10 tenants in New York City and the rest of the 11 state who are being threatened by Senator Bruno 12 would have been protected. 13 So let's be very clear what a 14 motion for discharge means. It means that it 15 enables the majority of Senators to take action 16 and that's what we're trying to do on this 17 important issue that Senator Abate has brought 18 before us. 19 Madam President, I vote in the 20 affirmative. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 22 Continue the slow roll call, 23 please. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator 25 Stachowski. 2635 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Proceed in 5 regular order, please, beginning at the top of 6 the roll call. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 10 SENATOR ALESI: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor. 14 (Affirmative indication) 15 Senator Cook. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator DeFrancisco. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gentile. 25 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes. 2636 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, I 3 would like to explain my vote. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator 5 Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: I want to clarify 7 because Senator Skelos said some things, and I 8 always listen when he speaks. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Please be quieter 10 so we can all hear Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: And when he 12 pointed to our distinguished colleague Senator 13 Rath as an intelligent woman who happens to be a 14 Republican -- I happen to agree with you, 15 Senator -- there's another intelligent woman, 16 happened to be a Republican, a member of this 17 chamber, Mary Goodhue, and it's quite obvious 18 from your remarks that the Republican Party can 19 only tolerate one intelligent woman at a time. 20 I think that that's a shame. 21 If you take a look at our side of 22 the aisle, we have Senator Abate and Senator 23 Smith, Oppenheimer, Montgomery, Mendez, 24 Santiago, Hoffmann, this party really believes 25 that people ought to be judged by their merit 2637 1 and their worth. 2 As for political pandering, 3 Senator, when we had to listen to debates 4 brought out by your side of the aisle on partial 5 birth abortion, which was a one-house bill for 6 political pandering, for your tax bills which 7 are one-house bills which are political 8 pandering, et cetera, et cetera, and on the 9 issue of breast cancer, if the attitude of this 10 Legislature is that "X" day is Breast Cancer 11 Day, talk about it that day and don't bother me 12 about it anymore, that's an absurdity. 13 One of the letters in support of 14 this bill comes from the National Alliance of 15 Breast Cancer Organizations and they refer 16 specifically to this legislation as being 17 legislation which would help women who have that 18 particular problem. 19 Senator, I think it's absurd to 20 say that you're bringing this up and the day is 21 not Breast Cancer Day, but we were there at 22 Breast Cancer Day with the Governor all getting 23 copies of our pen certificates and, therefore, 24 we don't have to do anything about it. We can 25 do something rich today in terms of bringing 2638 1 ease and comfort to people who have pain. 2 I vote yes. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 4 Senator Gold. 5 Please continue the slow roll 6 call. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Goodman. 10 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 12 SENATOR HANNON: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hoff... 14 Senator Holland. 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Madam 16 President, since my name was just called - 17 THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President. 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you. 20 Madam President, in the brief 21 moment it took for me to explain my vote - 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President. 23 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- when the 24 roll call was open - 25 THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. 2639 1 Senator Hoffmann, would you please just wait a 2 moment. 3 Senator Skelos, are you raising 4 an objection? 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Has Senator 6 Hoffmann been recorded on this roll call? 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 8 have you already explained your vote once? 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 10 I asked you. Has Senator Hoffmann been recorded 11 on this roll call? 12 THE PRESIDENT: Has she? Yes. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Then would you 14 please continue the roll call. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 16 I believe the rule is that you can only explain 17 your vote once. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Holland. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Johnson, voting in 21 negative earlier. 22 Senator Kruger. 23 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 25 SENATOR KUHL: No. 2640 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lachman. 2 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 4 SENATOR LACK: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 8 SENATOR LAVALLE: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: (Negative 11 indication). 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy. 13 SENATOR LEVY: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maltese. 17 SENATOR MALTESE: Nay. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 19 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Markowitz. 22 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 2641 1 SENATOR MEIER: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Montgomery. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 6 SENATOR NANULA: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Paterson. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 16 President, I would explain my vote, which I 17 think I pretty much -- my position is in favor 18 of this motion, but I was very disappointed to 19 see that a committee meeting was actually 20 scheduled at the same time as a slow roll call 21 vote which is an inherent contradiction. 22 When we have a slow roll call, we 23 turn the bells on. We're alerting everyone to 24 come to the chamber. This is the most sacred of 25 votes that we take. To schedule a committee 2642 1 meeting simultaneous -- it would have only taken 2 five to ten minutes to have conducted the roll 3 call and Senator Hoffmann got up, explained her 4 vote, which she has a right to do. She wasn't 5 out of order. She explained her vote. By the 6 time she got to the Environmental Conservation 7 Committee, the Committee meeting was over. 8 So she came back here, really to, 9 I would imagine, implore us that this is a bad 10 procedure and this continues to be, this 11 continuation of holding committee meetings at 12 the same time that we're taking votes. People 13 are coming in here and asking to be recorded 14 unanimously -- for unanimous consent to be 15 recorded. One member today forgot to ask for 16 unanimous consent before voting no. Why would 17 he have to have unanimous consent? He was being 18 sent out of the chamber by the leadership of the 19 chamber to a committee meeting. 20 I once attended every vote in 21 this chamber in 1995. I never left this floor 22 during the whole year. When I looked up at the 23 names of the people that had perfect attendance, 24 my name wasn't on it. You know why? Because I 25 didn't leave to go to the committee meetings. 2643 1 This process has got to be 2 changed, Madam President, so that we can 3 preserve even an order -- even a motion for 4 discharge is part of our order. If the Majority 5 doesn't like it, they can vote it down. They 6 can get up as Senator Skelos did and give all 7 the reasons why they think it's not a good thing 8 to do but to take this procedure which is 9 reflective of the character of the Senate going 10 back to when our government first started in 11 this state and to turn it into this kind of an 12 activity that we're seeing today, in my opinion, 13 is really bringing down the name of the New York 14 State Senate and for members to miss committee 15 meetings because they're voting or for members 16 to miss votes because they're in meetings is 17 something that I think is a misuse of taxpayer 18 dollars. We have plenty of time here to address 19 all these issues when we come to Albany. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator Paterson. 22 Continue the slow roll call, 23 please. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 25 President, I voted right in the beginning. I 2644 1 voted in the affirmative. 2 THE PRESIDENT: That's right. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Present. 4 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 6 SENATOR RATH: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rosado. 8 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 12 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Santiago. 14 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seabrook. 16 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Stafford. 2645 1 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Velella. 3 SENATOR VELELLA: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Explain my vote. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: I'll be voting 10 in the affirmative but, Madam President, I would 11 respectfully ask, even though we had a colloquy 12 momentarily a few moments ago, to relinquish my 13 time to the learned Senator from the Syracuse 14 area, Senator Hoffmann. 15 THE PRESIDENT: I would be 16 actually recognizing Senator Hoffmann 17 immediately following the vote because I know 18 she has something very important to say on this 19 issue. 20 In case, Senator Waldon, would 21 you like to comment on your own vote, explain 22 your own vote first? 23 SENATOR WALDON: Most graciously, 24 Madam President, I accept your decision to 25 recognize the learned Senator. 2646 1 My vote is yes. 2 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 4 SENATOR KUHL: I can't hear 5 Senator Waldon, and I know that a number of my 6 colleagues would like to know how he's going to 7 vote on this issue. 8 THE PRESIDENT: He is going to 9 explain that right now. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 11 Could we have a little order in 12 the chamber, Madam President? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon, 14 would you care to continue? 15 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 16 much, Madam President. 17 I am so happy that I am 18 recognized so many times to say yes. 19 Thank you very much. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Absentees, 21 please. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 23 SENATOR COOK: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gonzalez. 25 (There was no response.) 2647 1 Senator Holland. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 4 (There was no response.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 25, nays 34. 6 THE PRESIDENT: The motion to 7 discharge is defeated. 8 Senator Hoffmann. 9 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 10 Madam President. 11 I think it's very important for 12 the record to show there was a tremendous 13 affront committed today for no apparent reason. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 15 point of order. 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: After having 17 been asked to leave the chamber - 18 SENATOR LACK: Point of order. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, 20 Senator Hoffmann. 21 A point of order is being made. 22 Go ahead, Senator Kuhl. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. I thought we 24 were on the order of motions to discharge and 25 the roll call has been concluded. 2648 1 THE PRESIDENT: And the results 2 have been announced. 3 SENATOR KUHL: That's correct. 4 And for any member to be recognized to make a 5 statement requires unanimous consent of the 6 members of this body. That is in the rules, and 7 so I'm raising the objection at this time, a 8 point of order, Madam President, that for a 9 member -- Senator Hoffmann or for any other 10 member to speak to any issue that's not in the 11 regular order of business requires unanimous 12 consent of this body and that has not been asked 13 for at this point, and so the speaker who is - 14 you have recognized at this point is 15 inappropriately addressing this body. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 17 would you care for me to request the unanimous 18 consent of the body in order for you to speak? 19 SENATOR HOFFMANN: We can try 20 that. 21 Thank you, Madam President. 22 We'll try that first. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 24 if I might be heard for one more sentence. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead, Senator 2649 1 Kuhl. 2 SENATOR KUHL: That recognition 3 can only occur under the rules of this body at 4 the completion of the order of business of the 5 day. So any address by any member at this point 6 is totally inappropriate and beyond the rules of 7 this house and that's the reason for which I 8 make the point of order. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 10 would you care for me to request the unanimous 11 consent of this body -- just a moment, please - 12 at the close of business according to the Senate 13 rule? 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes, I would 15 appreciate that. 16 THE PRESIDENT: I will do so. 17 Thank you. 18 The Secretary will read. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 20 President, if I understand correctly -- because 21 I stated in the explanation of my vote what 22 Senator Hoffmann may be getting at -- Senator 23 Hoffmann is really raising a point of high - 24 extremely high personal privilege which, in my 25 opinion -- and I'll stand by the Chair's reading 2650 1 -- doesn't require unanimous consent of this 2 body, least of all -- but that's my 3 understanding of what she's stating. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 5 if there's already a point of order that's been 6 raised that's on the floor, I think that 7 requires a ruling before you can go to any other 8 kind of a request. Then I would ask that that 9 point of order be ruled on at this point. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 12 President, the record will reflect that the 13 point of order instructed Senator Hoffmann that 14 she had to request unanimous consent and when 15 you asked her if she would request it, I don't 16 think that Senator Hoffmann at that point was 17 aware of what her options were. She wasn't 18 making just a statement that was an addendum to 19 any other conversation. She's raising a high 20 personal -- a high point of personal privilege 21 and I want Senator Hoffmann, through you, Madam 22 Chair, to know that she doesn't have to request 23 unanimous consent and she at this point should 24 withdraw the request and then - 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 2651 1 I'm looking at the rules right now. I will make 2 a statement on this. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 4 President, I would just suggest that Senator 5 Hoffmann -- she take the course that will win. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoffmann, 7 would you please wait just one moment. 8 I'm citing Rule IX, Section 4, 9 paragraph (b), which reads that "after the 10 completion of the order of business for the day 11 and with unanimous consent of the Senate, a 12 Senator may make a statement not exceeding 15 13 minutes in length concerning a subject or matter 14 not pending before the Senate for 15 consideration." 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: In that case, 17 Madam President, I would very much like to 18 request unanimous consent, as has been suggested 19 by the Acting Majority Leader, so that I may 20 make a brief statement. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 22 Before the close of business of 23 the day, I will make that request for unanimous 24 consent. 25 SENATOR HOFFMANN: In the event 2652 1 the request for unanimous consent is, for any 2 reason, not permitted, then I would, of course, 3 request a point of personal privilege to make a 4 brief statement. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 6 Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: May we continue 8 with the order of the day. I believe there's 9 another motion to discharge at the desk. 10 THE PRESIDENT: That's right, and 11 we're waiting to hear from Senator Paterson. 12 Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 14 We have another motion to 15 discharge, Madam President, that has been 16 proposed by Senator Abate. I would wish that we 17 would read that motion and Senator -- and 18 recognize Senator Abate to explain it at this 19 time. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 21 will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 23 2025, by Senator Abate, an act to amend the 24 Criminal Procedure Law, the Penal Law and the 25 Civil Rights Law, in relation to strengthening 2653 1 civil rights protections. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson, 3 is Senator Abate -- oh, there you are. 4 Senator Abate. 5 SENATOR ABATE: Madam President, 6 I ask to waive the reading of a motion to 7 discharge on Senate Number 2025. I don't know 8 whether that had been done, and I would like the 9 opportunity to speak before this chamber. I 10 know it's many hours of talking but this is a 11 very important bill, many -- and this is the 12 bias-related violence or intimidation act, and 13 many may say, well, why are we doing this? The 14 time is certainly right for us to do something. 15 This is not a new issue. When I 16 was the executive deputy commissioner of the 17 state Division of Human Rights, we did a report 18 -- and this was in 1987 and 1988. There were 19 hearings held statewide. The Governor's Task 20 Force on Bias-related Violence, made up of 21 people from all religions, ethnic and religious 22 and racial groups around the state, came forward 23 with a number of recommendations. This is a 24 book full of recommendations. 25 One of the very important 2654 1 recommendations was that we need to look to 2 strengthen existing laws, protect victims of 3 bias-related violence and what was on the books 4 then and continues to be does not provide 5 adequate punishment or deterrence for those 6 individuals who wish to engage in this heinous 7 activity. 8 So what this bill does is 9 recognizes the fact that bias and hate violence 10 is not going away. We see reports about how 11 crime is going down, but we're not seeing the 12 same reports that hate crime and violence is 13 also decreasing. 14 So if we're going to send a 15 message -- and we always talk about being tough 16 on crime and protecting our citizens, talking 17 about common sense approaches to enhance public 18 safety -- we need to discharge this out of 19 committee, have a full debate and make sure we 20 end violence against individuals based on race, 21 creed, sex, age, religion and sexual 22 orientation. 23 This bill creates a new crime of 24 violent -- excuse me -- a new crime of 25 bias-related violence or intimidation in the 2655 1 second degree, which is punishable as a D felony 2 and also the first degree which is punishable as 3 a C felony. 4 Within the bill there are 5 safeguards so that it requires a district 6 attorney to file a special information. It 7 allows the court to dismiss in the interest of 8 justice if they feel the prosecutor has not 9 followed the legislative intent of this bill. 10 It provides for consecutive sentences but also 11 in the interest of justice, the court can 12 provide concurrent sentences. So built into 13 this are safeguards, but we need a law that 14 punishes severely these crimes which affect 15 individuals and the families and the communities 16 which these individuals identify with. 17 This bill is not about 18 prosecuting any case in which there's a victim 19 of violent crime simply because a member -- the 20 victim is a member of any particular group. 21 This is not about prosecuting crimes because the 22 victim and defendant are of different races or 23 religious or ethnic backgrounds. This is a bill 24 to punish severely those crimes committed 25 against individuals because of pure hatred and 2656 1 pure violence. 2 I know from the days when we had 3 these statewide hearings, I know from the days 4 when I was chair of the state Crime Victims 5 Board, I've seen the pain and suffering of 6 individuals and their families when a neighbor 7 has endured a crime against them because they 8 are African-American, because they are Latino, 9 because they are Jewish, because they are gay 10 and lesbian. These are crimes that cause whole 11 communities to suffer. These are crimes that 12 cause individuals and their families to leave a 13 neighborhood because they no longer feel safe. 14 These are crimes when one individual of that 15 group is victimized but it has enduring and 16 lasting pain and suffering that affects an 17 entire community. 18 So let's do what I believe is 19 what -- we're consistent in this body. We care 20 about crime. We care about crime victims. We 21 want to be tough. We want to be responsible. 22 Let's move this bill, discharge it so we can 23 have a full debate. Why are we waiting any 24 longer? 25 We have two governors that have 2657 1 supported this bill. We've had Governor Cuomo 2 and now Governor Pataki. We have had the 3 Assembly pass this bill since 1987. We've had 4 bipartisan support, Jewish support and Catholic 5 support and much other support around this 6 bill. The time is overdue. The time is now to 7 move this out of committee, to discharge this 8 vote and debate this issue today. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 10 Senator Abate. 11 Senator Lachman. 12 SENATOR LACHMAN: Thank you, 13 Madam Chair. 14 Ladies and gentlemen, recently 15 Governor Pataki, the Assembly leadership and 16 individual Senators have spoken out on the need 17 for a hate crimes bill. The Abate bill is one 18 of these attempts to respond to a serious 19 problem not only in New York State but 20 throughout American society. This legislation 21 makes bias-related violence or intimidation a 22 criminal offense. 23 There is currently no law 24 imposing criminal sanctions for acts of 25 bias-related violence. Now, this session, you 2658 1 and I have recently and correctly passed penalty 2 legislation on juvenile offenders and it is now 3 time to do the same for those who commit violent 4 hate crimes. This is especially necessary now 5 since the New York City Police Department has 6 recently reported a 27 percent increase in 7 bias-related crime while overall general crime 8 has dropped for the fifth consecutive year, in 9 the last year by 15 percent. 10 In some of the very neighborhoods 11 that I represent, we have seen -- we have 12 witnessed the brutal beating of an 13 African-American youth simply because of the 14 color of his skin. We have witnessed swastikas 15 on private property and we have witnessed the 16 defacing of synagogues and Catholic churches 17 with symbols of hate. 18 These acts of wanton hatred have 19 recently been condemned by such groups as the 20 ADL, the American Jewish Committee, the American 21 Jewish Congress, the JCRC, the National 22 Association for the Advancement of Colored 23 People, the Catholic Inter-Racial Council, as 24 well as Jewish, Baptist, Catholic churches among 25 others. 2659 1 Rarely -- rarely in New York City 2 have editorials of the four major dailies, the 3 Times, the News, the Post and Newsday, all 4 responded by saying it is time -- it is time for 5 a bias -- a hate crimes bill to be enacted. We, 6 you and I, have it in our power in this chamber 7 to enact legislation that would severely punish 8 perpetrators of hate crimes, and since I realize 9 that a debate, especially a debate on a 10 procedural issue, does not necessarily create 11 legislation as we have witnessed this afternoon 12 as well as yesterday, I would like now to reach 13 over to the other side of the aisle, but not the 14 way it was done in the House of Commons in 15 London but a few hundred years ago. 16 Now, I don't know the exact 17 difference in terms of length between where 18 Senator Tully is sitting now -- seated now, and 19 where Senator Kruger is seated now, but if 20 Senator Tully and Senator Kruger had been in the 21 House of Commons a couple of hundred years ago 22 and neither of them are really that old, they 23 would be directly opposite each other and they 24 would be opposite each other facing each other 25 the length of two swords pointed towards each 2660 1 other, and if you walk into the House of Commons 2 today, and you walk in with two swords, Senator 3 Tully carrying one and Senator Kruger carrying 4 the other, and they lifted their swords up and 5 directed it towards each other, the tips of the 6 two swords would touch, and the reason for it 7 barely touching and not going beyond that was 8 that the two major parties in a blustery debate 9 would not really take their swords out and dash 10 it further than the tip of the other sword into 11 the opponents. 12 Now, we have gone beyond that in 13 this august chamber known as the Senate of New 14 York State. I would like, at this point, to 15 reach over to Senator Tully and Senator Kuhl's 16 side of the aisle, not with a sword in my hand 17 but with an out stretched hand in a non-partisan 18 spirit, to reach a non-partisan goal. 19 Ladies and gentlemen, I am wedded 20 to the elimination of hate crimes and not 21 specifically to the specific language of this 22 particular bill or other bills, some of which I 23 might very well change in order to achieve our 24 goal and send a most important message to all 25 the citizens of our state and especially the 2661 1 young people of our state. Let us together send 2 this message to all. Let us together sit down 3 and negotiate. Let us together say, that hate 4 crimes will no longer be tolerated in New York 5 State. A hate crime in this state and in this 6 nation is entirely unacceptable behavior. It is 7 undemocratic behavior in the United States. It 8 is, my friends, un-American. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Anyone else care 10 to speak on the motion? 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I believe, 12 Madam President, we've been through this 13 discussion before about hate crimes and it seems 14 to me that there's a very, very simple 15 description of that: A swastika on the wall in 16 the town of Brighton is not defacing a 17 building. It's a crime of height; it's a crime 18 of intimidation to the people that I represent 19 who are Jewish. Similarly words spray painted 20 on the Charlotte bath house in Rochester against 21 African-Americans, that's not defacing a 22 building, that's a word of intimidation and 23 hate. 24 I stand up here today because I 25 don't want the person who does those kinds of 2662 1 things to simply be found guilty of defacing a 2 public building. I want them to be held 3 accountable for their acts of hate and violence 4 because only, Madam President, if we pass this 5 bill and send a message about destruction of 6 property and that putting those kinds of racial, 7 hate symbols on buildings is unacceptable, maybe 8 we'll pass even a bigger message that 9 perpetrating violence against those groups is 10 detestable, against the law and something that 11 doesn't belong in America. 12 We start with simple things like 13 defacing buildings. If you look at the history 14 of oppression on this planet, you will find that 15 the epitaphs first appeared on buildings and 16 secondly, they took people away. The place to 17 stop is by sending a message that it starts 18 right by putting things on buildings and it 19 leads -- and that we're not going to let it lead 20 to violence against individuals. That's what 21 hate crimes are all about. 22 It's time we put an end to them. 23 It's time we followed the federal lead. There's 24 a federal civil rights statute. It's against 25 the law to do it in the federal government. It 2663 1 ought to be against the law to do it here in New 2 York State. Let's have it. We've got a chance 3 to do it. This Attorney General supports this. 4 This Governor supports this. We can have a 5 bill; we can have a law. We haven't done 6 anything this year. Let's do something now. 7 THE PRESIDENT: I'm sorry. 8 Senator Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much, Madam President. Thank you very much, 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 Eddying below society's surface 13 or maybe I should say eddying below the surface 14 of our society are the hate crimes and when they 15 manifest themselves openly an atmosphere is 16 created which allows a young boy trying to get 17 on a ride in Brooklyn to be beaten with baseball 18 bats and metal bars just last week, simply 19 because he was black. He had no confrontation 20 with the people at the bazaar other than he was 21 black. The kids who were creating the problem 22 were all behind him, but he was the one who was 23 victimized and is now critically ill in a 24 hospital simply because he was black. 25 A young man with a machete in his 2664 1 hand running away from the police just this past 2 week was killed, I believe, simply because he 3 was black, and I think that America in general 4 but New York in particular has to look into the 5 mirror of life and recognize that the hate that 6 is internal and eddying below the surface is 7 manifesting itself in wanton acts of criminality 8 even by our police, and so it's a good thing 9 that we're doing here. Hopefully it will have a 10 salutary effect not only on hate crimes per se, 11 but on our behavior in general and specifically 12 in terms of the violence which happens to 13 certain people. 14 I use as an example the death of 15 one young man and the severe injury of another 16 who happen to be black, but no line is drawn in 17 regard to these hate crimes. My Jewish brothers 18 and sisters suffer, my Asian brothers and 19 sisters suffer. All people suffer when this 20 kind of insidious virulent behavior is allowed 21 to exist in our society. 22 I would implore you to decide on 23 the side of righteousness and to do as best as 24 you can to eliminate totally hate crimes and 25 hatred in our society and the violence which 2665 1 follows. 2 Thank you very much, Madam 3 President. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 5 Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam 7 President. 8 I rise to support this motion, 9 and I want to thank my colleague, Senator Abate, 10 and also Senator Lachman, for bringing this 11 motion or attempting to bring this motion to the 12 floor and have it actually passed because we 13 know that it's the kind of hate that has 14 resulted in the burning of churches, black 15 churches in the south, and we know that it was 16 simply vicious hatred that has resulted in the 17 deaths of so many young people as Senator Waldon 18 has pointed out, including Yusef Hawkins in 19 Bensonhurst, and a young man in Long Island who 20 was badly beaten simply because he happened to 21 be part of, I believe, an inter-racial couple. 22 We know that people who are gay 23 and lesbian individuals are viciously beaten and 24 often killed simply because of this hate, and we 25 also understand that in the state of New York we 2666 1 have the largest number of hate groups of any 2 state in the nation including Mississippi, 3 Alabama, and other places of that sort. 4 So that this is really, this 5 motion is an attempt for us in this Legislature 6 to make a statement, I believe, to our citizens 7 in New York State as well as to become a symbol 8 for other states and other legislatures 9 throughout this country that it is our role and 10 responsibility to speak on this -- to this 11 problem. We have -- we accept the fact that it 12 exists and that as legislators, as law makers 13 and as people who represent the highest level of 14 authority in relationship to government in our 15 state, send our specific signal that we oppose 16 and abhor this kind of crime and that is that we 17 should enact our bigotry and our racism and our 18 vicious dislike of people simply because they 19 are different from ourselves in some way, in one 20 way or another. 21 So I would hope that we could 22 consider this motion as a very high order, as a 23 very important step in New York State to speak 24 to this most heinous kind of crime and to send a 25 message that we do not in any way support this 2667 1 kind of behavior as citizens in our state. 2 Thank you, Madam President. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 4 Senator Montgomery. 5 Does anybody else care to speak. 6 Ah, Senator Oppenheimer. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thanks. 8 The Governor came to Westchester 9 County a couple of months ago to announce this 10 program bill and he came to Westchester because 11 unfortunately we've had almost weekly incidents 12 of graffiti, hate graffiti, and unfortunately in 13 these instances in my own community where 14 swastikas have appeared on many homes. Indeed 15 the police patrols are much higher this week in 16 Westchester County in anticipation of further 17 hate crimes because it appears that they often 18 occur around the Jewish holidays. So this is 19 not a happy environment in which we are living. 20 One might say, why increase the 21 penalty for a hate crime? A crime is a crime. A 22 hate crime really isn't against just an 23 individual or a individual's home. A hate crime 24 really involves the entire community that 25 believes or looks or acts like that person 2668 1 that's experiencing the graffiti or the hate. 2 It is a whole entire community that feels 3 threatened, that feels frightened, and that 4 feels pain and that is why the penalty has to be 5 more for this kind of a crime. 6 One of my colleagues said that 7 this is just a precursor to more violence. I am 8 married to a man who came out of Germany because 9 there was writing on the walls of his home and 10 he is alive today in America because of what his 11 family read into that writing. 12 We want to stand in this country 13 against hate crimes, for the blessings of 14 democracy and for the belief that all people are 15 created equal, deserve the protection of the 16 law, and I would hope that in this particular 17 instance since it is so supported by the 18 Governor that the other side of the aisle would 19 give their vast support for this bill also. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator Oppenheimer. 22 Is anyone else planning to speak 23 on this motion for discharge? 24 (There was no response.) 25 On the motion, all in favor 2669 1 signify by saying aye. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Party vote in 3 the affirmative. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Party vote in the 5 negative. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Have the roll 7 call, please. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 25, nays 10 35. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The motion is 12 defeated. 13 Senator Kuhl. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 15 President. May we return to the order of 16 reports of standing committees. I believe there 17 are four reports at the desk. Like to have them 18 read and directed to third reading. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 20 read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Levy, 22 from the Committee on Transportation, reports 23 the following bills: 24 Senate Print 102, by Senator 25 Levy, an act in relation to requiring the 2670 1 Commissioners; 2 604, by Senator Levy, an act to 3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 4 610, by Senator Levy, an act to 5 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 6 784, by Senator Cook, an act to 7 amend the Highway Law; 8 920, by Senator Levy, an act to 9 amend the Transportation Law; 10 922, by Senator Levy, an act in 11 relation to authorizing the Commissioner of 12 Transportation; 13 995, by Senator Levy, an act to 14 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and the Public 15 Health Law; 16 1891, by Senator Present, an act 17 to amend the Highway Law; 18 2043, by Senator Maltese, an act 19 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and others; 20 2373, by Senator Lack, an act to 21 amend the Public Authorities Law; 22 2375, by Senator Lack, an act to 23 amend the Railroad Law and the Criminal 24 Procedure Law; 25 3671, by Senator Rath, an act to 2671 1 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 2 3727, by Senator Levy, an act to 3 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 4 3915, by Senator Levy, an act to 5 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 6 30389, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 7 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 8 Senator Present, from the 9 Committee on Commerce, Economic Development and 10 Small Business, reports: 11 Senate Print 764, by Senator 12 Present, an act to amend the State 13 Administrative Procedure Act; 14 1660, by Senator Wright, an act 15 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act; 16 3685, by Senator LaValle, an act 17 to amend the Public Authorities Law. 18 Senator Cook, from the Committee 19 on Education, reports: 20 Senate Print 369, by Senator 21 Cook, an act to amend the Education Law; 22 955, by Senator Cook, an act to 23 amend the Education Law and the Family Court 24 Act; 25 2884, by Senator Johnson, an act 2672 1 to amend the Education Law; 2 3054, by Senator Wright, an act 3 to legalize, certify and confirm the acts of the 4 Central Square School District; 5 3164, by Senator Stafford, an act 6 to amend the Education Law and Chapter 698 of 7 the Laws of 1996; 8 3209, by Senator Skelos, an act 9 to amend the Education Law; 10 3473, by Senator Marchi, an act 11 to amend the Education Law; 12 3996, by Senator Volker, an act 13 to amend Chapter 198 of the Laws of 1978. 14 Senator Marcellino, from the 15 Committee on Environmental Conservation, 16 reports: 17 Senate Print 2246, by Senator 18 Marcellino, an act to amend the Environmental 19 Conservation Law; 20 3560, by Senator Wright, an act 21 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law; and 22 4130, by Senator Marcellino, an 23 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 24 Law. 25 All bills ordered direct for 2673 1 third reading. 2 THE PRESIDENT: All bills direct 3 to third reading. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 5 is there any other housekeeping at the desk to 6 take care of at this time? Does that take care 7 of all the reports of standing committees? 8 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. We don't 9 have any other reports, do we? We have a 10 committee report. 11 SENATOR KUHL: There's one more 12 committee report. O.K. Let's do it. It's the 13 order of the day except for that, and I think 14 we'll wait for that a few minutes. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 16 Hoffmann. 17 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Would it be in 18 order for me to request unanimous consent at 19 this time - 20 THE PRESIDENT: I think we're 21 ready for one more committee report and then, of 22 course, I will be recognizing you to make that 23 request. 24 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 25 we have no objection to her making -- Senator 2674 1 Hoffmann making that request at this time. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Excellent. 3 Senator Hoffmann. 4 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 5 Madam President. 6 I'm pleased to be able to take 7 the floor to further clarify my vote as I had 8 hoped to do somewhat earlier. I think it's very 9 important that several things be placed on the 10 record this afternoon in light of the 11 afternoon's events. 12 On the issue of discharge 13 motions, I developed a fair sense of familiarity 14 having first started doing motions to discharge 15 some seven, I believe, years ago myself. I 16 observed an interesting phenomenon take place. 17 The very first year that I brought forth several 18 motions to discharge in an attempt to make some 19 significant reforms to our legislative process, 20 I witnessed a change in the Senate rules. It 21 was a very remarkable reaction. There was a 22 statewide recognition that there was something 23 very strange about the way the New York State 24 Senate operated when something as basic as a 25 discussion of open meetings, a line item budget, 2675 1 the late night sessions, the filing of campaign 2 contributions in a single location, when issues 3 of this sort could only come to the floor under 4 this arcane parliamentary procedure known as a 5 motion to discharge. There was a sense of 6 outrage around the state. Many people who had 7 never before paid any attention to the way we 8 conduct our business, took a good look at the 9 way the Senate operated and very autocratic way 10 in which the leadership at that time forced a 11 Minority member of this house into an 12 insignificant role, denied all Minority members 13 the opportunity to have their bills heard in 14 committee, denied them the opportunity to have 15 their bills voted on the floor and then when 16 forcing them into this arcane parliamentary 17 procedure called a motion to discharge would 18 further insult them by suggesting that they 19 weren't real issues being brought up. They 20 weren't real motions. They were motions to 21 discharge. They were not bills coming to the 22 floor. Therefore, they didn't count. 23 After doing that for a couple of 24 years, I witnessed the change in the Senate 25 rules which further constricted my already 2676 1 limited ability and the ability of any other 2 Minority member in this house to be heard and 3 the rules were changed so that no longer could I 4 introduce a motion to discharge at my own choice 5 of time, but it was only at the direction of the 6 Majority on a specified date or one of the 7 series of specified dates on which I could 8 choose and only at the end of session, no longer 9 at the beginning of session. 10 It's not surprising to me that 11 now as I'm attempting to explain the vote that I 12 took some time earlier today there are only, I 13 think, five, six members of the Republican 14 Majority remaining in the chamber. That 15 indicates to me the level of interest for not 16 just my comments on this matter as I was 17 instructed earlier by the acting Majority 18 Leader, I would have to speak at the end of the 19 day's business. There is no desire to hear what 20 I have to say on the part of the Majority. It 21 is clearly regarded as an intrusion into the 22 orderly way of doing business established by 23 Senator Bruno in this house. 24 But what troubles me even more is 25 the way are in which several of my other 2677 1 colleagues have been treated in their attempts 2 to bring up motions to discharge today and, in 3 particular, the very important issue dealing 4 with something that many of us take seriously 5 and feel very pained over, the issue of breast 6 cancer. 7 We're suddenly put in a situation 8 where I, along with the other members of the 9 EnCon Committee were told, not offered the 10 choice, we were told that we would have to vote 11 now and leave to go to the EnCon Committee or 12 presumably not be allowed to vote at all on 13 Senator Abate's motion to discharge a very 14 important bill -- a very unfair, very Hobson's 15 choice. 16 Having been given that choice, I 17 dutifully left my vote in the Senate chamber, 18 left to go to the appointed committee room only 19 to discover upon my arrival at the committee 20 that the meeting had already been concluded. 21 The chairman was apparently unwilling to wait 22 until the members arrived, even though we were 23 instructed to leave the chamber after we voted. 24 Now, if this is the way the New 25 York State Senate is going to conduct its 2678 1 business, I suggest that it's probably time to 2 have a total revision of our rules and instead 3 of having 61 members traipsing into Albany every 4 week at considerable taxpayer expense, I think 5 the taxpayers of this state would probably be 6 better served if we would phone in our votes. 7 We could have two designated voters here. We 8 could have the Majority and the Minority Leader 9 and the rest of us could stay home, but that is 10 not the way that the Constitution of this state 11 is crafted. It is not what the rules of this 12 Senate state. 13 We are expected to be here 14 earnestly and sincerely debating on the issues 15 of this state. We're also expected to be here 16 putting a budget together, and we have not done 17 that either. In fact, we've committed one of 18 the greatest of all affronts and passed a 19 six-week extender, announced that we weren't 20 even going to be here for two of those six weeks 21 and presumably have no more interest in the 22 budget than we do many of the other pressing 23 issues of the state because there are not any 24 kind of budget discussions taking place, at 25 least not any that anyone could observe or find 2679 1 any input in, and speaking at least as a member 2 of the Finance Committee I find that very 3 objectionable. 4 I had hoped this year to bring 5 out my motions to discharge reform bills. There 6 are six bills in a package and after having been 7 told what date was available, I had selected 8 today as the date on which I would do those 9 discharge motions. I had a pretty good idea 10 going into today, going into this week, going 11 into this whole session, that they would 12 probably not pass, but I decided yesterday that 13 I would not put everybody through this ordeal 14 again because it was quite apparent from the 15 experience we had yesterday that not only would 16 they not pass but other motions to discharge 17 would not pass, even when members on the other 18 side of the aisle had committed to supporting 19 the issues. On a so-called procedural matter, 20 they backtracked. 21 So I think it's very important 22 that people around this state realize that 23 members of this Senate who are elected to 24 represent 300,000 people in the 61 districts of 25 the state do not all have the same opportunity 2680 1 to be heard, do not have the same opportunity to 2 introduce legislation and today, do not even 3 have the same opportunity to speak on the floor 4 of the Senate or to vote in the committee 5 meetings to which they are assigned a voting 6 responsibility. 7 It is because the leadership of 8 this house has chosen to abrogate the power of 9 individual members that I take the floor right 10 now to register my utter distaste and indicate 11 that it is clearly time for the Majority of this 12 house to consider the effect that this type of 13 behavior has upon all of the taxpayers of this 14 state and to ask if the Majority would like to 15 reconsider the way that motions to discharge are 16 being handled. Allow these issues to be heard 17 in the committee meetings. Allow the committee 18 chairmen, all of us intelligent men and women in 19 this house, allow them the opportunity to give 20 these issues a fair and earnest airing. Do not 21 force any member into the absurd position of 22 going through the motions to discharge and then 23 further insult not only our intelligence but the 24 intelligence of the people of this state by 25 saying it's purely procedural, and it has no 2681 1 meaning and then turn your back on us and leave 2 the chamber as well. 3 I think the time has really come 4 for a change of heart and a change of rules in 5 this chamber. 6 I thank the President for 7 allowing me the opportunity to be heard. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 9 Senator Hoffmann. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 11 have the reports of the two missing committees 12 arrived at the desk? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Then may we return 15 to the order of reports of standing committees 16 and I'll ask the Secretary to read those 17 reports. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 19 will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano, 21 from the Committee on Labor, reports the 22 following bills: 23 Senate Print 1689, by Senator 24 Farley, an act to amend the Workers' 25 Compensation Law; 2682 1 2842, by Senator Wright, an act 2 to amend the Workers' Compensation Law. 3 Senator Saland, from the 4 Committee on Children and Families, reports: 5 Senate Print 1786, by Senator 6 Saland, an act to amend the Family Court Act; 7 3612, by Senator Saland, an act 8 to amend the Executive Law and the Family Court 9 Act; and 10 3618, by Senator Saland, an act 11 to amend the Social Services Law and the Family 12 Court Act. 13 All bills ordered direct for 14 third reading. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All 16 bills direct to third reading. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Is there any other 18 housekeeping? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 We're clean, sir. 21 SENATOR KUHL: There being no 22 further business then, Mr. President, I move 23 that the Senate stand adjourned until tomorrow, 24 Wednesday, and note the time change, Wednesday, 25 April 9th, at 10:00 a.m., 10:00 a.m. 2683 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 2 Senate will stand adjourned until tomorrow, 3 Wednesday, April 9th, at 10:00 a.m. 4 (Whereupon at 3:02 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned.) 6 7 8 9 10