Tuesday, April 15, 1997

2924 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 April 15, 1997 10 3:05 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2925 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would everyone please rise and 4 join with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, April 14th. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April 13th, 16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 17 adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 2926 1 from the Committee on Finance, offers up the 2 following nominations: Member of the Workers' 3 Compensation Board: Robert J. Madigan, Jr., of 4 Binghamton. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 6 move the nomination. 7 Would you please recognize 8 Senator Libous. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 I want to rise today, Madam 13 President, to support the nomination of Bob 14 Madigan to the Workers' Compensation Board. 15 Bob and his wife Jill are with us 16 today up in the gallery, and I would like to say 17 that I've known Bob Madigan for a number of 18 years and his family and our family have been 19 friends. 20 As a matter of fact, his father 21 who is also a very distinguished attorney in our 22 community for a number of years and my uncle 23 were friends and fishing mates when my uncle was 24 mayor of the city of Binghamton and also an 25 advisor and counsel to him, and I had first met 2927 1 Bob a number of years ago. 2 Today Bob is before us. He was 3 moved from Finance to be a member of this board 4 and he's a graduate from Albany Law School and 5 works as a partner in the firm of Madigan & 6 Madigan but he's really more than just a 7 lawyer. He brings a fair and balanced 8 background to the board. He served both 9 Democrat and Republican mayors as chairman of 10 the Binghamton Civil Service Commission and 11 earned the respect of all those who served 12 before him. He also brings a sensitive 13 background to the board. 14 He's been a member of labor 15 unions like the Painters and Iron Workers and 16 he's also represented individual claimants 17 before the Workers' Compensation Board. 18 I'm completely convinced that Bob 19 Madigan will do a great job working with 20 Chairman Snashall. I can tell you that his 21 commitment, dedication and respect that he has 22 in our local community will be a tremendous 23 asset to him as he serves on this board. 24 Mr. President, I am so very proud 25 today to second the nomination of Bob Madigan. 2928 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 2 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 3 nomination? 4 Senator Stachowski. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 6 President, I too would like to rise and 7 congratulate -- second the nomination of Mr. 8 Madigan and congratulate him on his appointment, 9 congratulate the Governor on a fine selection. 10 Senator Libous had brought Mr. 11 Madigan to my office as the ranking member of 12 the Labor Committee before we had the meeting 13 and we got to chat a little bit and seemed like 14 a very nice gentleman and then we found out that 15 all the mayors in Binghamton had supported him, 16 both Democrats and Republicans, and everything 17 was going smoothly and I got this strange letter 18 from Bob Bergen, and I was worried then because 19 Bob Bergen was wholeheartedly supporting him and 20 that made me concerned because Bob Bergen has 21 always been our advisor on our side and I was 22 wondering why he was supporting this man. So 23 Bob called Manny and he called Marty and he had 24 so many nice things to say that I had to get up 25 and say that we on this side also are glad to 2929 1 have the opportunity to second the nomination 2 and we think that he will be a great addition 3 and we wish him well in his future. 4 Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 6 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 7 nomination? 8 (There was no response.) 9 Hearing none, the question is on 10 the nomination of Robert J. Madigan, Jr. of 11 Binghamton, New York to become a member of the 12 Workers' Compensation Board. All those in favor 13 of the nomination signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The nominee is unanimously 18 confirmed. 19 We're very pleased to have Mr. 20 Madigan and his wife Jill with us today. 21 They're seated in the balcony to the members' 22 left. Congratulations. Good luck. Godspeed. 23 (Applause) 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Member of the 2930 1 state Board of Real Property Services: John M. 2 Bacheller, of Latham. 3 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Johnson, on the nomination. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Move the 7 nomination. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 question is on the nomination of John Bacheller 10 of Latham, New York to become a member of the 11 state Board of Real Property Services. All 12 those in favor of the nomination signify by 13 saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 Opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 The nominee confirmed. 18 The Secretary will continue to 19 read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Members of the 21 New York State Bridge Authority: Edmund A. 22 Fares, of Monroe, Morton Marshak, of Monroe. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Johnson. 25 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 2931 1 move the nominations. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 question is on the nomination of Edmund Fares 4 and Morton Marshak to become members of the New 5 York Bridge Authority. All those in favor of 6 the nominees signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The nominees are confirmed. 11 The Secretary will read the 12 report of the Finance Committee. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 14 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 15 following bill for third reading: 16 By Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 17 4421, an act to provide a retirement incentive 18 for certain public employees. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, the bill is ordered directly to third 21 reading. 22 Reports of select committees. 23 Communications and reports from 24 state officers. 25 Motions and resolutions. 2932 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 at this time may we please adopt the Resolution 4 Calendar with the exception of Resolutions 983 5 and 985. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar with 8 the exception of Resolutions Number 983 and 9 985. All those in favor of adopting the 10 Resolution Calendar signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye".) 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The Resolution Calendar is 15 adopted. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 18 may we please take up Privileged Resolution 983 19 sponsored by Senator Connor. May we please have 20 it read in its entirety and move for its 21 immediate adoption. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the privileged resolution by 24 Senator Connor in its entirety. 25 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2933 1 Connor, Legislative Resolution proclaiming April 2 15th, 1997 as United States Naval Armed Guard 3 Day in New York State; 4 WHEREAS, it is the sense of this 5 legislative body to commend those men and women 6 from the state of New York whose focus and 7 intent have made a substantial impact on the 8 quality of life in this state and for our 9 country; and 10 WHEREAS, attendant to such 11 concern and in full accord with its long 12 standing traditions, it is the sense of this 13 legislative body to join together on April 15th, 14 1997 for a very special kind of commemoration. 15 It was 56 years ago this day that 16 the members of the United States Naval Armed 17 Guard served so valiantly and honorably during 18 World War II to protect this country's freedom 19 and, in full accord of the dangers ahead, 20 voluntarily served to preserve our nation's 21 interests. 22 On April 15th, 1941, the members 23 of the United States Naval Armed Guard began 24 preliminary training as gun crews to serve 25 aboard merchant ships, known as the "other 2934 1 Navy". The Naval Armed Guard crews manned the 2 guns of merchant ships in order to safely 3 deliver soldiers and supplies to Europe and the 4 Pacific. 5 Of the many accounts history may 6 disclose, the epic of the Battle of the Atlantic 7 is a little known legend, evincing true heroism, 8 sacrifice and cruelty by an unforgiving sea and 9 of the ruthless loss of lives from enemy 10 torpedoes, gun fire and bombs. 11 The Naval Armed Guards sailed the 12 globe aboard the slow-moving merchant ships 13 backed with explosives or on tankers with their 14 unstable cargos of aviation fuel with minimal 15 and often antiquated firepower, our crews were 16 pitted against the superior gunfire of surface 17 submarines, hostile vessels and attacking 18 aircraft. 19 In this particular battle, one in 20 nine of all merchant ships were lost, resulting 21 in the death of 11,810 aboard. The fortunate 22 were forced to abandon flaming and sinking ships 23 in the sub-freezing temperatures of the Arctic, 24 struggling for survival in open lifeboats as 25 they floated amidst the ice floe. 2935 1 Official accounts of this great 2 tragedy are only now coming to the forefront of 3 Navy chronicles, detailing the feats, suffering 4 and gallantry achieved against overwhelming 5 odds. The state of New York honorably salutes 6 our 746 surviving residents; now, therefore, be 7 it 8 RESOLVED, that this legislative 9 body pause in its deliberations to proclaim 10 April 15th, 1997 as United States Naval Armed 11 Guard Day as a tribute to the members of the 12 United States Navy who served as gun crews 13 aboard merchant ships during World War II; and 14 be it further 15 RESOLVED, that copies of this 16 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 17 to Mr. Charles A. Lloyd, National Chairman and 18 Secretary, United States Navy Armed Guard World 19 War II veterans, Mr. Henry M. Carringi, 20 Chairman, New York State Chapter, U.S. Navy 21 Armed Guard and Mr. Lyle E. Dupra, historian, 22 U.S. Army -- U.S. Navy Armed Guard World War II 23 veterans. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Connor, on the resolution. 2936 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 Let me say I invite all the 4 members of the Senate to co-sponsor this 5 resolution, recognizing these genuine heroes. 6 The U.S. Naval Armed Guard was 7 perhaps a little known or a little recognized 8 years later, a component of the heroic effort to 9 win freedom -- to preserve freedom and win World 10 War II. 11 The total number of personnel who 12 served in the naval -- Navy Armed Guard was 13 144,970. They served on 6,230 different 14 merchant ships, serving in theatres in Normandy, 15 the South Pacific, the Mediterranean the North 16 Atlantic, the Indian Oceans and in frigid 17 Murmansk. 18 The number of members of the Navy 19 Armed Guards killed was 1,810. Of the surviving 20 members, 740 we know of live in New York. The 21 average age of the survivors is a youthful 74. 22 The original guard bases included, I'm proud to 23 say, Brooklyn, New York, Treasure Island, 24 California and New Orleans, Louisiana. They 25 were the three bases. 710 ships on which the 2937 1 Navy Armed Guard served were sunk. That's one 2 in nine and 58,186 commendations were earned by 3 members of the U.S. Navy Armed Guard. 4 Mr. President, these indeed were 5 heroes of our century. These indeed were people 6 who served, who sacrificed, who fought, some of 7 whom died, that we can all enjoy the freedoms 8 that we have in this great country today. 9 We are certainly honored that in 10 attendance here today, we have veterans of the 11 U.S. Navy Armed Guard, Mr. Lyle Dupra, Mr. Henry 12 Carringi, Mr. Jimmy Whitbeck, Mr. Arnold Leo and 13 Mr. Bob Weaver, and I would ask you, Mr. 14 President, after we adopt this resolution, if 15 you would recognize these gentlemen who are 16 present here today. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 19 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 20 resolution? 21 Senator Dollinger. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 I rise today in support of this 25 resolution to thank our Leader for bringing it 2938 1 to the floor. The celebration of the Armed 2 National Guard or the Navy Armed Guard is really 3 a celebration of men who gave a tremendous 4 contribution in the Second World War. 5 I have had the opportunity to, in 6 the preparation of the history of this 7 organization, hear a lot of the stories that 8 these men were involved in the Second World 9 War. Wonderful stories and stories of courage, 10 stories of heroism, stories that really are at 11 the foundation of what it means to be an 12 American and, Lyle, I know the book is going to 13 be out shortly. I congratulate you on it. It's 14 really been a tremendous effort. 15 This is a wonderful history, 16 something that we shouldn't forget and I, again, 17 commend Senator Connor for bringing it to the 18 floor. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 20 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 21 resolution? 22 (There was no response.) 23 Would those Senators who wish to 24 be added as co-sponsors of the resolution raise 25 their hands. 2939 1 Senator Skelos, I see most of the 2 members would like to. Should we take the 3 opposite tack and approach - 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 5 why don't we put everybody on the resolution and 6 if somebody wishes not to co-sponsor the 7 resolution, they should let the desk know. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'll 9 direct the Secretary to add all the members as 10 co-sponsors of the resolution except for those 11 people who indicate to the desk that they do not 12 wish to be co-sponsors of the resolution. 13 The question is on Resolution 14 Number 983 by Senator Connor. All those in 15 favor of the resolution signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The resolution is unanimously 20 adopted. 21 As Senator Connor indicated, 22 there are several members of the Army -- Armed 23 Guard with us. I would like them to rise and be 24 recognized by the body. 25 (Applause) 2940 1 Gentlemen, thank you for joining 2 us today. Enjoy your stay in Albany. 3 Senator Skelos. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 5 may we please take up Privileged Resolution 985 6 sponsored by Senator Marcellino. May we please 7 have it read in its entirety and move for its 8 immediate adoption. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read Resolution Number 985, by 11 Senator Marcellino, in its entirety. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Marcellino, Legislative Resolution commemorating 14 the 27th Anniversary of Earth Day, April 22nd, 15 1997; 16 WHEREAS, it is the sense of this 17 legislative body to recognize and pay tribute to 18 those organizations dedicating their purposeful 19 work to increasing public awareness of and 20 appreciation for the natural resources of New 21 York, recognizing the role all citizens have in 22 protecting the environment and the quality of 23 life in this Empire State. 24 On April 22nd, 1970, 25 approximately 25 million Americans participated 2941 1 in the first Earth Day demonstration to express 2 their concerns over the environment and the fate 3 of the planet. 4 In the 27 years that have passed 5 since the original Earth Day, the planet has 6 been subjected to the continuing burdens of 7 world population growth, increasing commercial 8 and residential development, ocean pollution, 9 increasing stores of toxic and nuclear waste and 10 other similar assaults which have exacerbated 11 the growing dangers of global climate change, 12 ozone depletion, toxic poisoning, deforestation 13 and mass species extinctions. 14 Following the first Earth Day and 15 the demonstrations of concern of over 20 million 16 Americans, a collective national action has 17 resulted in the passage of sweeping new laws to 18 protect the invaluable resources of air, land 19 and water. 20 April 22nd, 1997 marks the 27th 21 Anniversary of Earth Day, a day set aside to 22 celebrate the beauty and bounty of our 23 environment and to revitalize the efforts 24 required to protect and maintain respect for the 25 environment and its resources. 2942 1 Earth Day 1997 activities and 2 events will educate all citizens on the 3 importance of acting in an environmentally 4 sensitive fashion by recycling, conserving 5 energy and water, using efficient transportation 6 and adopting sound life styles. 7 Earth Day 1997 activities and 8 events will educate all citizens on the 9 importance of supporting the passage of 10 legislation that will help protect the 11 environment and will highlight the importance of 12 a heightened awareness of environmental concerns 13 amongst our state leaders; 14 WHEREAS, the goal of Earth Day 15 1997 is not to plan only one day of events and 16 activities but to continue worldwide efforts to 17 protect all aspects of the environment; now, 18 therefore be it 19 RESOLVED, that this legislative 20 body pause in its deliberations to commemorate 21 the 27th Anniversary of Earth Day on April 22nd, 22 1997. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 24 recognizes Senator Marcellino on the resolution. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 2943 1 Mr. President. 2 I rise to offer this amendment to 3 everyone in the chamber who wishes to be a 4 co-sponsor on it. Perhaps we could follow the 5 same procedures as the last one and put everyone 6 on it unless they so ask not to be. 7 Mr. Chairman, I think most of us 8 can remember way back when talking about the 9 environment was something done by very few 10 people, if anyone at all. Most people didn't 11 consider it or were certainly unconcerned about 12 it. Most municipalities, most governments never 13 thought about it. These days, however, there's 14 a total distinction and totally different 15 attitude. 16 We celebrate Earth Day but the 17 key to the celebration is that it should not be 18 only one day a year. We should practice the 19 policies of protecting and preserving our 20 environment, our natural resources 365 days a 21 year forever. 22 Our earth is a limited resource. 23 We have only one planet on which to exist and if 24 we don't take care of that planet now, it won't 25 be here for our children and our grandchildren, 2944 1 and I think it is most imperative that we follow 2 those procedures and practices that continue the 3 educational process in all of our schools at 4 whatever level, to teach our citizens and our 5 young children and our adults whatever and 6 wherever they may be, that protection of our 7 environment is nothing to be ashamed of. It's 8 something to be proud of and something to stand 9 up for whenever possible. 10 So, Mr. Chairman, this resolution 11 I'm proud to sponsor, and I appreciate your 12 consideration in allowing me to speak. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the 15 resolution? 16 (There was no response.) 17 Would the members who would like 18 to be co-sponsors please raise their hands. 19 Senator Skelos, I see most 20 everybody in the chamber. Would you like to 21 have everybody put on? 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 with the consent of the Minority, we'll put 24 everybody on. Anybody that does not wish to 25 sponsor the resolution, they should indicate at 2945 1 the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will put all of the members as 4 co-sponsors on the resolution except those who 5 indicate to the desk that they don't wish to be 6 a sponsor of Resolution Number 985 by Senator 7 Marcellino. 8 The question is on the 9 resolution. All those in favor signify by 10 saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye".) 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The resolution is adopted. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 17 believe resolution 934 is at the desk sponsored 18 by Senator Maziarz. May we please have the 19 title read and then recognize Senator Maziarz. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the title to Resolution 22 Number 934 which was previously adopted. 23 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 24 Maziarz, Legislative Resolution honoring Ryan 25 Rimmer of Charles A. Upson Elementary School 2946 1 upon the occasion of his designation as the New 2 York State's First Place Winner in the U.S. 3 Savings Bonds 1997 National Student Poster 4 Contest. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Maziarz. 7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. President. 9 Mr. President, each year the 10 Department of the Treasury, the United States 11 Savings Bond Division annually conducts a 12 National Student Poster Contest to increase 13 public awareness of the advantages of U.S. 14 savings bonds and to promote the ethic of saving 15 among our nation's youth. 16 Each year thousands of young 17 students across the country take part in this 18 poster contest, Mr. President, and there is 19 always a winner from each state which the 20 posters are sent to Washington, D.C. and they 21 are competing for a $5,000 savings bond 22 annually. 23 Mr. President, I am extremely 24 proud this year to introduce to my colleagues 25 here on the Senate floor the first place 2947 1 winner. 2 Lockport, New York, Mr. 3 President, is a small city of about a population 4 of 30,000. It's located in the northwestern 5 corner of New York State, and I very often on 6 the floor of this chamber, Mr. President, hear 7 accolades about heroes and winners from the five 8 boroughs of the city of New York and I hear 9 accolades about winners from Long Island, all 10 well deserved, Mr. President, but, Mr. 11 President, a young man by the name of Ryan 12 Rimmer who attends Charles Upson School in 13 Lockport, New York, won first place in the New 14 York State poster contest and as the first place 15 winner, Mr. President, is going to receive a 16 savings bond in the amount of $1,000 and we are 17 also going to recognize the second and third 18 place winners who hail from, you guessed it, 19 Long Island and Brooklyn, Mr. President. 20 Now, it is not very often that 21 Lockport beats Brooklyn and Long Island and, as 22 I told Ryan and his parents earlier, it is not 23 very often in this city that Lockport wins out 24 over Long Island or the city of New York. 25 And so, therefore, Mr. President, 2948 1 I am extremely proud and I am joined by 2 Assemblyman David Seaman from the 139th Assembly 3 District representing Lockport to congratulate 4 the first place winner of the savings bond 5 national poster contest, Mr. Ryan Rimmer, who 6 joins us in the gallery with his parents. 7 Ryan, why don't you stand up 8 there with your mom and dad. Congratulations. 9 (Applause) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Can we adopt the 13 resolution. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 resolution was previously adopted on April 8th. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: There's another 17 privileged resolution at the desk that I've 18 sponsored, 935, if we could have the title read, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will read the title of Resolution 22 Number 935 which was previously adopted on April 23 8th. 24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 25 Skelos, Legislative Resolution honoring David 2949 1 Spinks of Lindell School upon the occasion of 2 his designation as New York State's Second Place 3 Winner in the U.S. Savings Bonds 1997 National 4 Student Poster Contest. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Would it be 9 appropriate at this time to reconsider the vote 10 by which Senator Maziarz' bill -- resolution 11 passed? 12 I do want to congratulate all the 13 winners because these young men have achieved 14 something, whether it's first, second or third 15 place and certainly all the individuals 16 throughout the state -- I understand 24,000 17 young students participated in this program, and 18 I'm very proud of David Spinks, a fourth grader 19 from my district, the Lindell School in Long 20 Beach, for having come in second place. He's 21 here with his family, individuals from the 22 Lindell School. He's won a $500 bond and he 23 indicated to me before that he was buying dinner 24 tonight, right, David? 25 No, I don't think so. That's 2950 1 going to go to his college education but, David, 2 we're very proud of you for your accomplishments 3 and congratulations, and I know we're going to 4 see a lot more from you in the future. 5 Congratulations, David. 6 (Applause) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 10 believe Resolution 941 is at the desk sponsored 11 by Senator Gentile. May we please have the 12 title read. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 Secretary will read the title to Resolution 15 Number 941, by Senator Gentile, which was 16 previously adopted on April 8th. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Gentile, Legislative Resolution honoring Joseph 19 Lew of Intermediate School 239, the Mark Twain 20 School, upon the occasion of his designation as 21 New York State's Third Place Winner in the U.S. 22 Savings Bonds 1997 National Student Poster 23 Contest. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The Chair 25 recognizes Senator Gentile to speak to the 2951 1 resolution. 2 SENATOR GENTILE: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 I too want to be the first to 5 congratulate all the winners, especially Senator 6 Maziarz and, Senator, I must say, you did - 7 your student did take first place this year but 8 I am told -- I am told from the art teacher at 9 Mark Twain Intermediate School that Joseph Lew 10 is one of a long list of Brooklynites that have 11 won in this contest consistently over the 12 years. So we did take third place this year and 13 Joseph is here. 14 So, Joseph, you continue the 15 great tradition of Brooklynites. So we are very 16 proud of you. You not only make Brooklyn 17 proud. You make your school proud, your 18 principal, your teacher, your parents and you 19 make me proud. You're the winner of a $250 bond 20 and you did a great poster and we're very, very 21 proud of you. 22 So I think you're here with your 23 parents. So if you'll stand up, we will 24 congratulate you also. Congratulations. 25 (Applause) 2952 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 there will be an immediate meeting of the Crime 5 Victims Committee in Room 332 of the Capitol. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 will be an immediate meeting of the Crime 8 Victims Committee, immediate meeting of the 9 Crime Victims Committee in the Majority 10 Conference Room, Room 332. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 at this time if we could take up the non- - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Skelos, we have a couple of motions, if we could 15 do that. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Fine. Go back 17 to motions. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Trunzo. 20 SENATOR TRUNZO: Mr. President, I 21 offer the following amendment to Calendar Number 22 592, Senate Print 4421, and ask that the said 23 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 24 Calendar. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2953 1 amendments to Calendar Number 592 are received 2 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 3 the Third Reading Calendar. 4 Senator Lack. 5 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President, on 6 behalf of Senator Saland, I wish to call up 7 Print Number 816, recalled from the Assembly, 8 now at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Saland, Senate Print 816, an act to amend the 13 Penal Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Lack. 16 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I move to reconsider the vote by 19 which this bill was passed. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Secretary will call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll on 23 reconsideration.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2954 1 Lack. 2 SENATOR LACK: I would like to 3 offer up the following amendments. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 amendments are received and adopted. 6 SENATOR LACK: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Lack. 9 SENATOR LACK: I wish to call up 10 my bill, Print Number 3511, recalled from the 11 Assembly, which is now at the desk. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Lack, 15 Senate Print 3511, an act authorizing the State 16 University of New York. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Lack. 19 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 I move to reconsider the vote by 22 which this bill was passed. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will call the roll on 25 reconsideration. 2955 1 (The Secretary called the roll on 2 reconsideration.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Lack. 6 SENATOR LACK: I offer up the 7 following amendments, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 amendments are received and adopted. 10 The chair recognizes Senator 11 Marcellino. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 On behalf of Senator Marchi, on 15 page number 21, I offer the following amendments 16 to Calendar Number 484, Senate Print Number 17 3691, and ask that said bill retain its place on 18 the Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 amendments to Calendar Number 484 are received 21 and adopted and the bill will retain its place 22 on the Third Reading Calendar. 23 Senator Marcellino. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 25 President, on behalf of Senator Skelos, I wish 2956 1 to call up his bill, Print Number 179, recalled 2 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Skelos, Senate Print 179, an act to authorize 7 the payment of transportation aid. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Marcellino. 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 11 President, I now move to reconsider the vote by 12 which this bill was passed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to reconsider the vote by which the 15 bill passed the house. 16 The Secretary will call the roll 17 on reconsideration. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Marcellino. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 24 President, I now offer the following amendments. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2957 1 amendments are received and adopted. 2 Senator Skelos, we have a couple 3 substitutions that we would like to read at this 4 time. 5 The Secretary will read the 6 substitutions. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano 8 moves to discharge from the Committee on Civil 9 Service and Pensions Assembly Bill Number 2958 10 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 11 Third Reading 336. 12 Senator Maziarz moves to 13 discharge from the Committee on Crime Victims, 14 Crime and Correction Assembly Bill Number 60 and 15 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 16 Third Reading 472. 17 Senator LaValle moves to 18 discharge from the Committee on Local Government 19 Assembly Bill Number 5360 and substitute it for 20 the identical Senate Bill Third Reading 524. 21 Senator Marchi moves to discharge 22 from the Committee on Corporations, Authorities 23 and Commissions Assembly Bill Number 4052 and 24 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 25 Third Reading 484. 2958 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 substitutions are ordered. 3 That brings us to the calendar, 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could take 6 up the non-controversial calendar at this time, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the non-controversial 10 calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 378, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 387, an 13 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 14 making available to their victims the proceeds 15 of civil recoveries attained by prisoners. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 18 bill aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 407, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 3304, 21 concurrent resolution of the Senate and 22 Assembly, proposing an amendment to Section 1, 23 Article VI of the Constitution. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last -- excuse me. The 2959 1 Secretary will call the roll on the resolution. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 resolution is adopted. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 444, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 1957, an 8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 fixing sentences for persons committing crimes 10 while on parole. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 445, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1977, an act 24 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal 25 possession of a weapon in the third degree. 2960 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 471, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 246, an 6 act to amend the Executive Law, the Civil 7 Practice Law and Rules and the Tax Law, in 8 relation to personal injury awards. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 12 act shall take effect on the first day of 13 January. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 473, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 1587, an 22 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 23 the written statement of the crime victim in 24 making the parole release decision. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2961 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the first day of 4 January. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 486, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 331, an act 13 to amend the Executive Law, the Tax Law and the 14 State Finance Law, in relation to missing 15 children. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect on the first day of 20 November. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2962 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 523, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3135, an 4 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 5 relation to point systems for service award 6 programs. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 527, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3640, an act 12 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 13 to procedures for the issuance of administrative 14 search warrants. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 25 has Calendar Number 444 left the house at this 2963 1 point? We're on the vote. Let me wait until 2 after the vote, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 4 the negatives. Announce the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 6 Calendar Number 527, ayes 56, nays 1, Senator 7 Cook recorded in the negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: My apology, 12 Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No 14 problem. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Relating to 16 Calendar Number 444, I want to know if it's 17 still in the house. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 444, I'm 19 informed by the Secretary, has left the house. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will continue to read the 24 non-controversial calendar. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2964 1 533, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 75, an act to 2 amend the Public Authorities Law and the 3 Railroad Law, in relation to operating a self 4 propelled railroad passenger car or locomotive 5 while under the influence. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 9 act shall take effect on the first day of 10 November. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 550, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3671, an act 19 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 20 relation to mandatory suspension of licenses. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the first day of 25 November. 2965 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Skelos, that completes 8 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 if we could take up the controversial calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the controversial calendar, 13 beginning on page 15, Calendar Number 378, by 14 Senator Nozzolio. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Montgomery, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 19 President, before we take up the next calendar, 20 I would like unanimous consent to be recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar 444. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 2966 1 no objection, Senator Montgomery will be 2 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 444. 3 The Secretary will read the 4 controversial calendar. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 378, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 387, an 7 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 8 making available to their victims the proceeds 9 of civil recoveries obtained by prisoners. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Read the last 13 section. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 15 the last section. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Could we lay 18 that aside temporarily. I believe Senator 19 Nozzolio is chairing a committee meeting. If we 20 could take up Calendar Number 445. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 445, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1977, an act 25 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal 2967 1 possession of a weapon in the third degree. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been requested 5 of Calendar Number 445 by Senator Waldon. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay that aside 7 temporarily. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 9 bill is laid aside temporarily. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: May we take up 14 Senator LaValle's bill, Calendar Number 523. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Calendar Number 523. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 523, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3135, an 20 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 21 relation to point systems for service award 22 programs. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Stavisky, why do you rise? 25 SENATOR STAVISKY: Will the 2968 1 sponsor of the legislation yield for a question 2 or two? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator LaValle, will you yield to Senator 6 Stavisky for a question? 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: I would be 8 delighted to. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 10 Senator Stavisky. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 12 LaValle, what are the service award benefits? 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Pardon me? 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: What are the 15 service award program benefits? 16 SENATOR LAVALLE: Service award 17 benefits are each person, depending -- each 18 volunteer fireman, depending on the length of 19 service, receives a benefit based on, for want 20 of a better term, pension for the length of 21 service. 22 You see, Senator Stavisky, a 23 number of years ago we had a very, very 24 difficult time both retaining and attracting 25 members of the volunteer fire service which we 2969 1 are dependent upon. Volunteer members save our 2 taxpayers somewhere in excess of $1 billion a 3 year because of their service and so we 4 established in this body -- and you were a 5 member of this body and voted for the service 6 award system -- that allows members who 7 accumulate 50 points a year, depending on how 8 many fires they attend, training sessions and 9 other criteria, attendance in parades, et 10 cetera, to receive recognition or credit for 11 that year of service. The fire district can 12 choose -- what they do is they take out a policy 13 for their members and so at the end of a number 14 of years, they can, upon retirement from the 15 volunteer fire service, receive a monthly 16 benefit. That benefit depends on years of 17 service by the individual, the points that they 18 have accumulated and the kind of policy that the 19 fire district has taken out. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 21 LaValle, does the volunteer fire organization, 22 in some cases, provide volunteer ambulance 23 rescue service? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 25 Senator LaValle, would you yield for a question 2970 1 from Senator Stavisky? 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator 3 Stavisky, in the suburban and rural areas, there 4 is a patchwork of how we address the ambulance 5 delivery system. In some cases, it is done by 6 volunteer fire departments and in some 7 communities, we have set up by statute volunteer 8 ambulance districts that are very much like and 9 parallel volunteer fire districts and we also 10 have a system of service awards for our 11 ambulance districts in the same way that we had 12 established in law for the volunteer fire 13 service awards. 14 So the answer is, yes, for some 15 fire districts, if they choose to continue that 16 service. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 18 LaValle. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Stavisky. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: I am not 22 opposed to your legislation. I simply wish to 23 ask why are the volunteer ambulance corps in the 24 city of New York not covered by a similar 25 service award program that would enable the 2971 1 volunteer ambulance corps members in the city of 2 New York and in other districts to be eligible 3 for the kind of benefits that you have here in 4 your legislation? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator LaValle, do you yield for a question? 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, I will. 8 Senator, the bill that we have 9 before us deals with the fire districts. It 10 does not deal with the -- as I had indicated to 11 you, we have two different systems that are 12 parallel in suburban and rural areas. 13 The city of New York has a paid 14 fire system and so today what we're dealing with 15 here in the bill before us deals with volunteer 16 fire personnel and does not deal exclusively 17 with ambulance personnel. 18 Now, my answer to you, Senator, 19 is that if you have -- and I am not aware, but 20 if you do have volunteer ambulance people, then 21 I would say you might look at similar laws that 22 we have sponsored for suburban and rural areas, 23 you might look at that and see whether you would 24 want to follow the same route for the city of 25 New York. 2972 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, 2 Senator LaValle. On the bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Stavisky, on the bill. 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 6 there is such a bill in this house. It is 7 Senate 4311, which I have sponsored and it 8 provides the same benefits to the volunteer 9 ambulance service people that this bill provides 10 for the volunteer firefighters. Their functions 11 are identical, and I would ask you, Senator, 12 would you be willing to amend your bill to 13 include the volunteer ambulance corps which are 14 districts that are represented by Senator 15 Maltese, Senator Padavan and members of the 16 Minority in this house and which would provide 17 the same benefits? Would you be willing to 18 consider an amendment to your bill to grant to 19 the volunteer firefighters outside of the rural 20 and suburban areas that are covered by your 21 piece of legislation; would you be willing to 22 consider and recommend the adoption of a similar 23 bill for the benefit of the volunteer ambulance 24 corps? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2973 1 Senator LaValle, would you yield for a question 2 from Senator Stavisky? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, your 4 question was would I amend this bill? What I am 5 saying to you in my remarks is that this bill 6 is, if we make an analogy, an apple. The bill 7 you're talking about is an orange and so we're 8 not talking about like matters here. This is an 9 entirely different bill. 10 If you look at this bill, 11 Senator, this bill merely says that a fire 12 district that has already voted for -- by 13 referendum of the people of the fire district to 14 institute and constitute a service award system 15 that they do not every time they change the 16 nature of the point system in how you arrive at 17 your 50 points. That means that maybe they have 18 changed attending a parade as being two points. 19 They now change that to be one point, that they 20 now do not have to go back and hold a referendum 21 again with the voters of the fire district and 22 it merely says that as long as the Board of Fire 23 Commissioners or the village or the municipality 24 that is the sponsor of the service award system, 25 that they -- as long as they vote by 60 percent 2974 1 of the board, that they can change the point 2 system. That's all we're doing, Senator. 3 We're not doing what you're 4 trying to do by your legislation and the answer, 5 I think you know, is that if you have a bill in, 6 that just as I, with this bill, I went before 7 the Committee, requested it out. There was a 8 discussion of the bill. Here it is on the floor 9 and we're discussing it again even though the 10 discussion is about apples and oranges. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 12 LaValle, we're not talking about apples and 13 oranges. 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, we are, 15 Senator. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: We're not 17 talking about grapefruit. We're not talking 18 about bananas. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Stavisky, are you asking Senator LaValle 21 to yield for a question or are you speaking on 22 the bill? 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. I'm 24 through with Senator LaValle and I hope he's 25 through with me. What I'm saying, in effect, 2975 1 is - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Stavisky, on the bill. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- that there 5 is no major distinction between a body of 6 volunteers performing ambulance rescue missions 7 in one part of the state versus a body of 8 volunteers in another part of the state, and I 9 do not wish to see you do a disservice to the 10 members from the city of New York, including, I 11 believe Senator Maltese and Senator Padavan, in 12 finding that there is no right on the part of 13 the volunteer ambulance corps in the city of New 14 York to be treated in the same manner as your 15 bill and the existing law provides. 16 I want equity. I want 17 comparability of benefits. Yes, there is an 18 emergency medical service but there are places 19 in New York City where constituents will die 20 were it not for the presence of a volunteer 21 ambulance corps to provide emergency rescue 22 services, the same emergency rescue services 23 that are rendered by the volunteer firefighters 24 of the state. 25 I am not going to oppose your 2976 1 bill. I am simply asking for comparable 2 consideration for our constituents who are 3 donating their time, their energy, their effort 4 without any monetary compensation in New York 5 City under the aegis of a volunteer ambulance 6 service. 7 So I'm going to vote for your 8 bill, but I want to point out that there ought 9 to be some comparability in the benefits that 10 are available for the volunteer ambulance corps. 11 I see Senator Marchi nodding in 12 agreement. I think he has in his district 13 volunteer ambulance corps that render this 14 life-saving service in Staten Island, and I 15 believe that there ought to be comparability. I 16 have no pride of authorship, Senator LaValle. 17 It may be a LaValle bill. It could be a Marchi 18 bill, so long as the benefits are extended to 19 the volunteer ambulance corps in the city of New 20 York and that's the point of my questioning. 21 It's not apples and oranges. It's not bananas 22 and pears. It's equity. 23 Thank you. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 25 Senator Oppenheimer, Senator Volker was - 2977 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Go ahead. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Oppenheimer. 4 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, I 5 agree with both sides today. 6 Let me say that we are having 7 problems attracting volunteers to -- I'm now 8 speaking in my other hat many years ago of being 9 a mayor and we were having difficulty attracting 10 volunteers to our fire department and our 11 rescue. 12 Anything that we can do that 13 makes additional benefits like the service award 14 is something that will be very important to 15 those communities that rely on the volunteer 16 services for both fire and ambulance. 17 In answer to Leonard's question 18 about was it within the fire department? We in 19 my community had a rescue squad. Rescue was 20 part of our fire department. However, we found 21 it difficult to keep our rescue fully staffed as 22 we -- they also had to qualify as firefighters 23 and many of the women who are interested in 24 rescue to work on the ambulance corps could not 25 -- did not want to participate in the fire 2978 1 training part of it and they did not want to be 2 firemen. 3 Therefore, our community went to 4 a VAC, volunteer ambulance corps, and I would be 5 happy to see these kind of additional benefits 6 for people who volunteer at unbelievable hours 7 of the night and day for the volunteer ambulance 8 corps, and if I could structure a bill with 9 Senator Stavisky or with Senator LaValle, I 10 would be happy to do so because I think we 11 really have to recognize the contribution of 12 these volunteers who get nothing back in return 13 except for doing good for their community. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Volker. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 18 just want to clarify something and, Senator 19 LaValle, it's not just his legislation because I 20 know a little bit about the -- you could not 21 possibly do what Senator -- what was asked here 22 to do to combine. It really is apples and 23 oranges. In fact, probably you should be asking 24 the city of New York to do this. 25 These ambulance districts and 2979 1 fire districts are creatures of the state of New 2 York. We created them by legislation, most of 3 them. The decision, however, to do things like 4 service points, and so forth, has been at the 5 local level. The problem in the city of New 6 York is that your people are not -- at least not 7 by the state of New York. They may be by some 8 city ordinance or something -- they're not 9 created by anything in the state of New York. 10 Therefore, for the state of New 11 York to make a declaration that we're allowing 12 service points for ambulance corps and volunteer 13 firemen in the city of New York, I think is 14 constitutionally not possible. I think you 15 should be -- it seems to me -- it would seem to 16 me that you should be going to the city of New 17 York since, as far as I know, these ambulance 18 corps, and so forth, if they're regulated at all 19 would be regulated under city statutes and not 20 under the state of New York. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Senator Stavisky. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 24 LaValle -- Senator Volker, I want to mention the 25 fact that both houses of the Legislature did 2980 1 recognize volunteer ambulance corps by statute. 2 One of these recognitions is known as the Good 3 Samaritan Law, which I sponsored when I was a 4 member of the Assembly and it provided, at the 5 request of the then Governor Rockefeller, for 6 certain training, certain hours of training that 7 would be available in the event that the 8 volunteer ambulance corps desired to be exempt 9 from punitive action during the time that the 10 volunteers were responding to an emergency. 11 Yes, we have recognized them in 12 the city of New York and elsewhere. Yes, we 13 should have comparability. Yes, I think that 14 this is a fine concept. I have not criticized 15 it, except to mention the glaring omission. 16 So if we have a statute called 17 the Good Samaritan Law that applies specifically 18 to the volunteer ambulance services and it was 19 approved by both houses, signed into law by 20 Governor Rockefeller, I think that that should 21 answer the question. 22 We are not asking for a special 23 benefit. We are asking for fairness and equity, 24 and that's all I wanted to say on this issue. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Thank 2981 1 you, Senator Stavisky. 2 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Cook. 5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 6 there probably isn't a lot of purpose in having 7 this go on but, Senator Stavisky, you appreciate 8 that the way a service award program is 9 developed is that the sponsoring organization, 10 that is, the fire district buys a policy which 11 gives the awards. 12 In the city of New York, 13 therefore, I think what Senator Volker was 14 trying to say would be incumbent presumably upon 15 the city of New York, in some manner, to first 16 say we are prepared to buy this kind of policy 17 for volunteer ambulance personnel who are in the 18 city and then there might be some manner in 19 which they could be engrossed into the system, 20 but the point is that there has to be a 21 sponsoring governmental entity in order to have 22 the program in the first place and that doesn't 23 exist so far as I know in the city of New York. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 25 the last section. 2982 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 59. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 11 would you take up Calendar Number 445, by 12 Senator Kuhl. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 445, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1977, an act 17 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to criminal 18 possession of a weapon in the third degree. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been requested 21 of Calendar Number 445 by Senator Waldon. 22 Senator Kuhl. 23 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President, I 24 would be happy to explain the bill. This is a 25 bill that increases the severity of criminal 2983 1 possession of a weapon by a convicted felon. 2 Currently in the state of New 3 York, the law exists that says that if a 4 convicted felon is caught possessing a rifle or 5 a shotgun, then that person is guilty of a Class 6 A misdemeanor. 7 This bill would provide for an 8 increased penalty for a second conviction, much 9 like the driving while intoxicated laws. We 10 give people a break the first time and as they 11 continue to convict or possess certain things 12 and break the law, we make the penalties more 13 severe. 14 This particular proposal would, 15 on the second conviction of possession of a 16 rifle or a shotgun, change that Class A 17 misdemeanor crime to a Class D felony which 18 carries with it an indeterminate sentence up to 19 seven years in the state penitentiary. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 21 gentleman yield to a question or two, Mr. 22 President? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Kuhl, would you yield to a question or 25 two from Senator Waldon? 2984 1 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 2 to. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Senator Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 Senator Kuhl, is there a 8 requirement in upstate New York if someone 9 purchases a rifle or shotgun to register same 10 similar to the requirement in the city of New 11 York? 12 SENATOR KUHL: A shotgun or a 13 rifle? No. Licensing in upstate New York 14 outside of the city is only required for 15 handguns at this current time, Senator Waldon. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Waldon. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 19 gentleman yield again, Mr. President? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Kuhl, would you yield for a question 22 from Senator Waldon? 23 SENATOR KUHL: Certainly. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Does a person 25 who desires to purchase a rifle or shotgun have 2985 1 to apply in any form or fashion for a license to 2 possess same? 3 SENATOR KUHL: No. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 5 would the gentleman continue to yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Kuhl, would you continue to yield for a 8 question from Senator Waldon? 9 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: To your 14 knowledge, Senator Kuhl, is there any 15 restriction for those who wish to hunt in terms 16 of making application for licenses to hunt in 17 upstate New York if they have been convicted of 18 a felony and are, in fact, out many, many years 19 but not to the concluding year; for example, if 20 they still owed time to the state in regard to 21 parole two or three years, is there any 22 restriction on those persons applying for a 23 license to hunt? 24 SENATOR KUHL: For a license to 25 hunt, I believe they forfeit that when they're 2986 1 convicted of a felony, Senator Waldon, but 2 that's not -- that particular area is not one of 3 my expertise. So I say that not absolutely 4 certain, but I believe they forfeit the civil 5 rights upon the conviction of a felony and that 6 would preclude them from a hunting license. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 8 one more question, if I may. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 10 Senator Kuhl, would you yield to one more 11 question from Senator Waldon? 12 SENATOR KUHL: Certainly. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Waldon. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Creating a 16 hypothetical, Senator Kuhl -- because I don't 17 know the answer to the question as well and if 18 someone in the chamber does know, if they would 19 edify Senator Kuhl and I, I would be greatly 20 appreciative, but creating a hypothetical 21 situation, someone committed a crime, was 22 convicted, served his time, is out on parole, 23 has not made application for any release from 24 that obligation and he and his friends decide to 25 go hunting in upstate New York. He purchases 2987 1 lawfully a rifle or shotgun to go hunting and 2 is, in fact, on his way to hunt, is stopped 3 inadvertently by a state trooper and the trooper 4 sees the rifle and somehow makes -- a shotgun 5 and makes a connection from personal knowledge 6 that this person is, in fact, someone who owes 7 time to the state and arrests him for that 8 crime. 9 In the bill that we passed 10 earlier in committee to report out from Senator 11 Rath which -- maybe it was here. I'm confused 12 about it -- which would allow the maximum - 13 require that the maximum time be served, would 14 that not negatively impact this person who 15 otherwise is leading a lawful existence? 16 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Waldon, 17 perhaps you overlooked what I said, that this 18 bill only deals with a second conviction for 19 possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. 20 So whether or not that circumstance -- that 21 hypothetical that you have outlined -- and I had 22 a hard time listening -- hearing it, I should 23 say, but the noise in the chamber, so I may have 24 not heard all the detail, but what I'm saying is 25 there currently is law in this state that 2988 1 provides that if, in fact, a convicted felon is 2 found in his possession to have a rifle or a 3 shotgun, then they are guilty of a crime, a 4 crime which is a Class A misdemeanor for which 5 they can be sentenced, as you know, to a penal 6 institution, county jail for up to a year. This 7 particular proposal would say if you are 8 convicted of possession a second time within a 9 ten-year period, then, in fact, you would not be 10 guilty of a Class A misdemeanor but you would be 11 guilty of a Class D felony. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 13 much, Senator Kuhl. 14 On the bill, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 17 SENATOR WALDON: I'm not sure if 18 I am even happy with the misdemeanor penalty 19 because I believe in that mix of people who 20 would love to hunt in this state and who are 21 otherwise law-abiding citizens, the mere 22 possession of a rifle or shotgun should burden 23 someone with up to one year in prison, but the 24 proposal that Senator Kuhl has presented to us 25 for consideration does not say if the person is 2989 1 using the rifle or shotgun to commit a crime and 2 under the scenario I shared with you, I believe 3 it's within the realm of possibility that a 4 person could inadvertently come into contact 5 with law enforcement personnel and, in fact, be 6 arrested and, in fact, be found guilty of mere 7 possession and then owe the state seven years. 8 In my world, that doesn't make 9 any kind of sense. It really doesn't make any 10 kind of sense. The person has paid his dues, is 11 now on parole, happens to go hunting -- or 12 whatever the situation is -- with some friends 13 and inadvertently runs into the law, I think 14 that's a mistake. I think it's overly broad and 15 far, far too punitive, and I would encourage us 16 to reconsider our votes on this issue because 17 bills like this, we cavalierly vote yes for and 18 have done so, even myself, over the years 19 because we don't really look at the human side 20 of what's being proposed. 21 Why are we looking to just hold 22 everybody in terms of rights to do things that 23 are of no danger or threat to the rest of 24 society? The mere possession of the rifle is 25 not a threat to society. You've heard many 2990 1 times, I'm sure in TV shows or movies that it's 2 not -- and even here on this floor, some of my 3 colleagues have said it is not the gun that 4 kills. It is the man holding the gun that 5 kills. So why would a rifle being held by 6 someone in these circumstances or a shotgun be 7 the kind of threat which would warrant seven 8 years? 9 I suggest it is not, and I would 10 encourage all of us to do as I'm going to do and 11 vote no on this proposal. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Senator Montgomery. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 Would the sponsor yield for a 17 question of clarification? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 19 Senator Kuhl, would you yield for a question 20 from Senator Montgomery? 21 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 22 to. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Montgomery. 25 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 2991 1 you, Senator Kuhl. 2 I note in the bill that was 3 passed by this house, Senate Bill 444 sponsored 4 by Senator Holland, would require that anyone 5 who committed a felony while on parole -- and 6 I'm not sure what the felony is. I'm not an 7 attorney and I don't see the class of felony 8 defined in the bill, but it says anyone who 9 commits a felony while on parole will have to 10 serve their original sentence and their original 11 maximum sentence and the first -- on the first 12 sentence "and the minimum on any subsequent 13 sentence", and your legislation says 14 essentially, as I understand it, that a person 15 who is -- who is convicted on this criminal 16 possession of a rifle would be -- receive a 17 felony-- fourth degree felony, a Class D felony, 18 which means that putting these two bills 19 together, you now have a situation where a 20 person who possesses a rifle, even if it's for 21 hunting or other recreational purposes, would 22 fall into the category of both your legislation 23 as well as Senator Holland's bill which precedes 24 it. 25 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, would you 2992 1 like me to comment on that? I think there's one 2 thing that you're missing. If, in fact -- let's 3 take the scenario that Senator Holland's bill 4 deals with. If, in fact, you have someone who 5 is on parole, which means they have been 6 convicted of a crime, probably a felony, and 7 then if they are then convicted -- found to 8 violate that parole, then they're going to serve 9 their full maximum sentence, is that correct? 10 That's the way you understand the bill? All 11 right. 12 Now, if that individual, after 13 having served that sentence, goes out and is 14 found to be in possession of a firearm, there is 15 a provision -- if you note in the language of 16 the bill, it talks about -- at least the 17 proposal deals with a person who has previously 18 been convicted of a violation of this section 19 which means that there is another precedent to 20 getting to having this particular proposal 21 influence that person's life. 22 So, if an individual who was 23 convicted of a felony, who's now violated 24 parole, gone out and served their entire 25 sentence, now comes out and decides to go 2993 1 hunting, knowing that they're a felon, they lost 2 all their civil rights, number one, they don't 3 have a license so that they're violating the 4 gaming laws already. They also are violating a 5 provision of this section which says that they 6 are not to have in their possession a rifle or a 7 shotgun. If they are found to have that 8 possession of a rifle or shotgun, they are now 9 then going to be convicted of a misdemeanor. 10 This proposal that I have doesn't even touch 11 them yet. 12 So now they're learning that, in 13 fact, they are a felon. They've had their 14 lesson. They're being convicted of a 15 misdemeanor. Now they're going to, under 16 Senator Holland's proposal, as I understand it, 17 serve the minimum of whatever that sentence is, 18 which would be up to a year in jail, okay? If 19 it's an indeterminate sentence, it's generally 20 one-third of what that maximum penalty is, four 21 months. 22 Now they have been told simply 23 because they have been convicted, either they 24 sat through a jury trial or whatever, or else 25 they pled, understanding what they have done. 2994 1 Now, for them to get to having an impact - 2 having their lives being impacted by this 3 proposal, they then for a second time would have 4 to decide, I'm going hunting again, forget the 5 fact that I don't have a license, I haven't 6 gotten a certificate of disability -- relief so 7 that I can do that application. Now they're 8 going to do the same thing over again. 9 Now, this proposal says if they 10 are found to have a rifle or a shotgun in their 11 possession, that they are, in fact, going to be 12 convicted of a Class D felony which then would 13 subject them to up to two and one-third to seven 14 years in the state penitentiary. 15 So an individual under the prior 16 proposal that we adopted, Senator Holland's 17 proposal, would have to go through an 18 intermediary step, which I perceive to be a 19 learning step. It's much like, as I said to 20 Senator Waldon in explaining the bill, I 21 associate this to dealing with subsequent 22 offenses for people who have already committed 23 the same crime. No, no. You did this wrong 24 once. Now, if you do it wrong again, we're 25 going to make the penalty more severe. 2995 1 As I said, I equate this to the 2 DWI legislation where we say that, Fine. If 3 you're convicted once, it's going to be a 4 misdemeanor. You're going to have your license 5 revoked. You're going to be sentenced up to six 6 months in jail and your license is going to be 7 revoked for six months. The second time we make 8 it a felony. 9 So this is, I think, consistent 10 with that type of legislation and it sends a 11 signal that we don't want violent felons, people 12 convicted of felonies, walking around with 13 firearms that they can kill people with. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 15 Senator Kuhl. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 17 Marcellino, would Senator Montgomery yield for a 18 question? 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I will 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator Montgomery. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, there 24 is new language this year, and I want to ask you 25 to look at it because I want to ask you a 2996 1 question. This bill, line five, he commits a 2 crime of criminal possession of a weapon and has 3 previously been convicted of violating such 4 subdivision within the preceding ten years. 5 Are you aware that that can mean 6 that he had possession of a weapon crime as his 7 conviction in the previous ten years? Are you 8 sensitive to that? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Waldon, if you're reading and being 11 sensitive to the record, would you please cite 12 where you're reading from, so that the 13 stenographer can get it? 14 SENATOR WALDON: I'm reading from 15 the bill, Senator -- Mr. President. I'm sorry 16 for that. I'm reading from the bill and I'm 17 reading from line three through line six of the 18 bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Thank you, Senator. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I have read 22 it, yes. 23 SENATOR WALDON: If I may direct 24 to the learned lady a question or two. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do 2997 1 you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: She 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 6 Montgomery, if you understand that the first 7 conviction is for a weapons felony then you 8 understand that someone under the scenario I 9 discussed earlier, and I believe the scenario 10 you were trying to raise with Senator Kuhl would 11 merely have to have in his or her possession a 12 rifle or shotgun and if discovered to have same 13 by the police would actually trigger all of the 14 things you were talking about in connection with 15 Senator Holland's bill? Are you clear on that? 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 18 much, Senator Montgomery. Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 21 President, just briefly on the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Senator Montgomery, on the bill. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I just want 25 to remind my colleagues that when I look at 2998 1 Senate Bill 444, I don't -- indeed I believe 2 that these two pieces of legislation are very 3 closely connected and we already have on the 4 books a law which requires that the judge 5 sentence to state prison any person convicted on 6 the second felony, so that what we seem to be 7 looking at here are attempts to extend that 8 particular law rather than giving more 9 discretion at the level of the courts to tighten 10 it so that not only does the second felony law 11 continue, but it is indeed strengthened by 12 virtue of Senator Holland's bill, to say that 13 that person now must serve in addition to the 14 maximum of the original sentence, must now serve 15 any additional minimum sentence on any 16 subsequent violation, and since the large 17 majority of the inmates now in state prison are 18 there because of drug-related arrests for which 19 we have no alternatives in terms of treatment 20 and diversion, it occurs to me that the results 21 of these two bills, if they were passed, would 22 be that we're looking at a major problem of 23 overcrowding in the prison system without really 24 addressing either the problem of crime on the 25 streets or addressing the problem of 2999 1 rehabilitation through the appropriate 2 intervention of inmates who are already there in 3 prison. 4 So, Mr. President, I'm going to 5 oppose -- I voted no on Calendar Number 444 6 because I believe that it is an unnecessary 7 bill. It does not address the problem of crime, 8 and I think that it's only going to exacerbate 9 our already overcrowded system, and I'm going to 10 also oppose 445 because I think that this is 11 just essentially an addendum to 444 and again, I 12 don't think despite I believe Senator Kuhl has 13 every intention of trying to address crime, I 14 certainly, based on my experiences in my 15 district and with the criminal justice system as 16 I know it, this does not help to reduce crime in 17 the streets of the borough and the district I 18 represent. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Any 21 other Senator wish to be heard? 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 25 November. 3000 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 445 are Senators 6 Montgomery, Sampson and Waldon. Ayes 56, nays 3. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Volker, we have one more 10 bill left, Senate Bill Number 3 -- Calendar 11 Number 378, Senate 387. Can we call that now? 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Go ahead. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 378, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print Number 17 387, an act to amend the Executive Law, in 18 relation to making available to their victims 19 the proceeds of civil recoveries obtained by 20 prisoners. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Read the last section. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Senator Nozzolio, an explanation has been called 3001 1 for. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 3 my colleagues, today this Senate recognized and 4 honored crime victims and crime victims' rights 5 in measures previously passed sponsored by 6 Senator Leibell, Johnson and Senator Volker. 7 Before I begin explanation of 8 this bill, I'd like to indulge the house in just 9 a moment in praising the courage of many of the 10 crime victims across our state, and this house 11 is blessed today because it is graced by a 12 visitor who is himself just this last year 13 within the last few months literally the victim 14 of a very, very serious crime. 15 Seated in the gallery is a young 16 man by the name of Nathan Downes. Nathan is a 17 young man from Rochester, really a man that the 18 community of Rochester has been proud of, an 19 Eagle Scout, one who has performed very 20 admirably in -- throughout his very young life. 21 On his way home from school this year Nathan was 22 accosted by an attacker younger than he, an 23 attacker who tried to rob him at gunpoint. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Senator Nozzolio, can you hold on for a minute. 3002 1 Will the members, please, if you have conversa 2 tions, take them out of the chamber. Staff, 3 take your seats so we can hear the Senator 4 speak. 5 Senator? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 On his way home from school, 9 Nathan was accosted and robbed at gunpoint. 10 Fortunately for he and for all of us, the wound, 11 less than an inch from his heart, was one that 12 because of good care and strong body, Nathan 13 recovered from after some very, very serious 14 convalescence. 15 Nathan Downes is a man of 16 courage, is one that as we talk about crime 17 victims, we need not talk about them in the 18 abstract. The tragedy that occurred to this 19 young man is a tragedy that we all regret. But 20 it's a tragedy that we must work hard to prevent 21 never happens again, and we must do all possible 22 to pass legislation in this house and in this 23 Legislature that does as much as possible to 24 prevent this type of action from occurring 25 again. 3003 1 We must also seek legislation 2 that ensures justice to crime victims regardless 3 of what their injury occurs, that the measures 4 before us today take great steps in ensuring 5 that the victims of crime have their day in 6 court, that the victims' rights are recognized, 7 that the victims have an opportunity to present 8 their case before tribunals and that the victims 9 are considered when there's the issue of 10 compensation that needs to be provided. 11 The Crime Victims Board, as we 12 all know, is very, very shortchanged in its 13 ability to give victims of crime monetary 14 compensation. There have been measures passed 15 in this house, passed just recently in a 16 non-partisan, bipartisan fashion, that provide 17 the victims of crimes "Son of Sam" protections, 18 building upon what this Legislature had done 19 over the last decade in ensuring that those who 20 commit crime are not allowed to profit from 21 their crime. That's the measure that we have 22 before us today, builds upon the "Son of Sam" 23 protections that those who are committing very 24 serious crimes are not sent to prison and then 25 allowed to profit from those crimes. 3004 1 What the measure before us does 2 as we get to its explanation, is to provide 3 those who sue in civil court litigation while 4 they are in prison the proceeds of their 5 recovery to be dedicated to the Crime Victims 6 Compensation Fund so that, if they were sent to 7 prison for any other action similar to their 8 reason for incarceration and wrote a book, that 9 book fee would be given to the Crime Victims 10 Compensation Fund as is the law of the state. 11 But what this measure does - 12 excuse me. What this measure does is provide 13 equity so that when an individual, criminal, 14 sues the taxpayers of this state that the 15 recovery from that lawsuit, if any, be dedicated 16 to those victims of crime throughout the state. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Will the 19 gentleman yield to a question or two? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator 22 Waldon? Senator Waldon, he yields to you. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 24 much, Mr. President. I apologize for that side 25 bar, Senator Nozzolio. 3005 1 Can you give us an example, 2 Senator Nozzolio, of two or three types of 3 crimes that would qualify for the victim to 4 recover from someone who sues later while 5 incarcerated? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly, Mr. 7 President. Rape, robbery, murder, those types 8 of crimes sending an individual to prison would 9 surely qualify. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Would burglary 11 qualify under your scenario? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Would embezzle 14 ment of a major nature qualify? 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Just to make 16 it clear -- easier for you, Senator, Mr. 17 President, the bill allows recovery for any 18 felony or misdemeanor defined in the Penal Law. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Any and all. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's 21 correct. So anyone, just to further explain, if 22 someone is incarcerated for a misdemeanor, which 23 is unlikely in this state, that that would still 24 provide the ability to then pursue civil 25 litigation during that period of time, would be 3006 1 able to recover any funds received from 2 subsequent litigation. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 4 gentleman continue to yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do 6 you continue to yield, Senator? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 10 yields. 11 SENATOR WALDON: To your 12 knowledge, under current law, Senator Nozzolio, 13 are there any exceptions whereby the victim 14 could not recover for any monies inuring to the 15 benefit of the person incarcerated while 16 incarcerated? 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm not aware 18 of any, Mr. President. 19 SENATOR WALDON: May I continue, 20 Mr. President, if the gentleman continues to 21 yield? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: You 23 continue to yield, Senator? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm sorry. I 25 did not hear the question, Senator. 3007 1 SENATOR WALDON: I didn't pose 2 it. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 4 was asking if you continue to yield. 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 6 President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 8 continues, Senator. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President, and thank you, Senator, for 11 your patience. 12 May I create a hypothetical and 13 ask you to give me your thoughts on the 14 hypothetical. Somebody commits a crime major 15 felony, but not a violent felony, but someone 16 suffered a loss as a result of that, pecuniary 17 loss. This person is in jail and has need of an 18 operation while incarcerated, not in jail but in 19 prison, and most regrettably, a doctor commits 20 gross negligence during the operation, and 21 causes irreparable harm of a permanent and 22 lasting nature to the person, and the person 23 sues and recovers, and let's create for my 24 hypothetical that the person recovers a million 25 dollars. The crime which was committed by this 3008 1 person may have caused damage in a financial 2 sense to the victim of only $500,000. 3 Are you saying to us that, under 4 your proposal that, one, the $500,000 would be 5 recoverable and, two, the remaining $500,000 6 would go to the Crime Victims Board? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 8 the measure is designed to provide justice to 9 those that need to be compensated for injuries 10 received as a result of a crime. The bill 11 models the federal Prisoners' Litigation Reform 12 Act of 1995, which requires reasonable efforts 13 be made to notify crime victims that monetary 14 damages are about to be paid to an inmate. 15 In this case that Senator Walton 16 -- Waldon presents -- pardon me, Senator - 17 Senator Al - 18 SENATOR WALDON: Which I like. 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: As Senator 20 Waldon presents, that what the measure does in 21 this hypothetical would delay that medical 22 malpractice recovery for 60 days. Creates - 23 creating a three-year statute of limitations so 24 that the crime victim would have to have -- to 25 sue the previously indigent, assuming the 3009 1 prisoner was an indigent, could get no recovery 2 from him. 3 Now, you have the crime victim 4 had an opportunity over a three-year period to 5 attach those additional benefits that the - 6 were brought about from the malpractice case. 7 The same would be true if it was an inmate 8 winning the lottery or sometimes even medical 9 malpractice cases are described, an inmate 10 winning some major inheritance. 11 Those types of circumstances 12 would now be akin to an inmate winning a civil 13 litigation. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Last question, 15 if I -- or last two- or three-part question. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator, do you continue to yield, to the last 18 two or three questions? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 22 yields, Senator. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 24 Nozzolio, suppose -- suppose this person who 25 moved to recover the judgment -- strike that. 3010 1 The person recovers $500,000 within the time 2 frame scheduled here in your proposal, and the 3 remaining $500,000 is there. What happens to 4 that remaining 500,000? I wasn't clear on your 5 previous response. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That the crime 7 victim shall have the right to bring a civil 8 action in court of competent jurisdiction to 9 recover money, so that the right of a victim to 10 bring a civil action for right of recovery, Mr. 11 President, is provided for in this legislation, 12 that if -- that that recovery could be obtained 13 from the medical malpractice judgment obtained 14 by the criminal, the prisoner, so this just 15 simply allows the victims to seek out those 16 potentially significant awards from previously 17 indigent -- previously indigent prisoners. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 19 apologize to my colleagues because obviously I 20 wasn't clear in my question. What I thought I 21 had said, and I apologize to you, Senator 22 Nozzolio, was that the victim recovered the 23 $500,000 which was originally lost and there is 24 a remaining amount of $500,000. What would 25 happen with that? He's already brought a suit 3011 1 and he's recovered his 500,000, the victim, and 2 there's a remainder of 500,000. What happens to 3 that? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Still the 5 courts of equity would be able to now, if this 6 measure was passed into law, provide that victim 7 with a three-year statute of limitations window 8 that says that that victim can continue to 9 fulfill, or I guess in your hypothetical you'd 10 have to say whether or not the victim was 11 foreclosed. Was there a final judgment, was it 12 a judgment that he just simply had a final 13 judgment, but only a 50 percent recovery, that a 14 court of equity then would be -- because of this 15 law that we are debating today, would be able to 16 allow a crime victim a three-year window to say 17 to that window, your previously indigent 18 prisoner is now -- has a largesse of $500,000 of 19 which you could fulfill your judgment by going 20 after. 21 A court of equity then could 22 decide justice in this situation and say, Is 23 this a situation that should be compensated? 24 Simply now we have -- we don't have that type of 25 opportunity for victims to be able to go into 3012 1 court. They are foreclosed. This opens the 2 door for potential recovery. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Again, I 4 apologize, Mr. President, but I won't belabor 5 that and I'll explain that piece momentarily in 6 regard to the $500,000 remaining, but last 7 question, if I may, Mr. President, to Senator 8 Nozzolio and I appreciate your patience, 9 Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Senator, you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 14 yields, Senator. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I grew 16 up in Brooklyn and in Brooklyn we knew that if 17 someone was going to benefit from what we might 18 do and leave no benefit for us, then we just 19 wouldn't do it, so if I had an opportunity to 20 sue and have a recovery as the prisoner, even 21 for a medical malpractice situation, but I knew 22 that if I sued every penny of it was going to 23 someone else, I might not bring the suit. 24 So my question is, do you think 25 that there will be a great motivation for those 3013 1 who you are incarcerated to sue a municipality 2 or the state of New York to recover knowing that 3 the money is all going to someone else? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 5 I'd like to say I've never thought of that, but 6 frankly, it's obvious. Yes, take away the 7 monetary award, the monetary motivation out of 8 bringing this type of litigation, and I think 9 that you'd have some -- some very thoughtful 10 processes before the dice was rolled although 11 you could say the same thing about an individual 12 who may not want to work because they don't want 13 to have to have their wages garnished by their 14 child support obligations. 15 That type of logic is -- I'm 16 sure, governs some people's conduct, but I think 17 here what we're trying to do above all the 18 speculation and above all the hypotheticals, 19 Senator, is to establish a process so that if 20 there is a successful prisoner litigation, that 21 the victim of the crime is thought of first, not 22 last, that the victim of the crime has an 23 opportunity to pursue monetary compensation, to 24 be righted. 25 I don't care about the inmate or 3014 1 the prisoner who is there for a very serious 2 offense. I care about the victim who was given 3 that offense in the first place, and that's 4 really what I'd like the focus of this to be 5 about. It's what the focus is about, that if it 6 has a secondary benefit of retarding the gross 7 amount of prison litigation that we see in this 8 state every year, terrific, but our primary 9 motivation is to compensate those victims who 10 heretofore are being left out in the cold, and 11 let me just provide you, not with a hypothetical 12 in answering your question, provide you with a 13 hypothetical that's a very real circumstance and 14 that's a situation, of an inmate named Joey 15 Lawrence who was a convicted rapist, who was a 16 rapist in New York City who was sent to prison 17 and then received a $157,000 award by the 18 courts, I should say by the federal District 19 Courts of the Southern District. That $157,000 20 judgment, not one penny went to the victim of 21 that serious and heinous crime. That's wrong, 22 and that's the wrong that we're trying to 23 prevent. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 25 if I may. Thank you very much, Senator 3015 1 Nozzolio. On the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 5 Nozzolio, I tried to elicit a response and it 6 probably was the manner in which I posed the 7 question that did not elicit the response I had 8 hoped for. I thought I had said that, if 9 there's a $500,000 final judgment, final 10 judgment, what would happen to the remaining 11 $500,000 if there's a final judgment and the 12 court has said that's it, Plaintiff, that's it, 13 you got your money, then what happens to the 14 remaining $500,000? I wanted to know, would it 15 go to the Crime Victims Board or could the 16 prisoner keep the money? 17 The thing that I found troubling 18 in what you said, though, in all of this, was 19 when you said you don't care about the 20 prisoners. Your concern is only about the 21 victims. I'm concerned about the victims and 22 the prisons, and I think that's what all of us 23 should be about, because the prisoners are 24 people from our community who've made for 25 whatever reason, some bad judgments. 80 percent 3016 1 of them in our prisons, the first mistake they 2 made was to do drugs or to get drunk, and while 3 in this euphoric state they went out and did 4 something which caused them to run afoul of the 5 law which resulted in their being in the 6 criminal justice system. 7 But they come home. They 8 eventually come home, and that's where this 9 state has failed most miserably in the sense 10 that we do not have an attitude which says let's 11 do something to create people who will have 12 served their time, they have dealt with their 13 drug problem, they have dealt with their 14 alcoholism problem. We have some support 15 services of whatever psychological, 16 sociological, method applied to them and they 17 come back better than when they left. 18 I go into the prisons. Perhaps 19 you do as well, Senator Nozzolio. You have a 20 great reputation in terms of dealing with 21 criminal justice issues, and I respect that. 22 But I go into the prisons, and I see stacked 23 like cordwood, like cordwood, young black and 24 Latino men. I've even been to the female 25 prisons, and I think it's a mistake to allow 3017 1 70,000 people to fester and to fester and to 2 fester, and then to return them to a society 3 where we live in our communities and the 4 festering which has occurred over those many 5 years erupts in additional violence and havoc 6 and pain and suffering for the community. 7 So my real concern is not with 8 what you propose today. I feel for the 9 prisoner. I feel for the victim. I feel more 10 for the victim than the prisoner in the sense 11 that it is unfair for someone to be violated 12 when they've done nothing to cause or precipi 13 tate that violation. However, I feel that we 14 are remiss as a government because we are 15 creating our own downfall by not recognizing 16 that, despite the fact that these people have 17 run afoul of the law, we do nothing to preclude 18 the second time, the third time, the fourth 19 time. 20 When I have conversations with 21 these young men in the prisons, many of them say 22 they're going to be badder when they get out 23 than they were when they got in. They've 24 learned to be cleverer as a criminal which is a 25 mistake. You don't learn to be cleverer. You 3018 1 just learn a faster way to get back into 2 prison. 3 But I think we ought to begin to 4 focus on something that's called rehabilitation, 5 something that's called true treatment for the 6 drug problem, something that's called true 7 sensitivity to the English as a second language 8 needs or whatever other needs of the prisoners 9 are because if we don't focus on it while 10 they're in prison, then our lives when they're 11 outside of prison will be just as miserable as 12 they are now and I believe more miserable as we 13 come to the turn of the century. 14 I would recommend everybody who 15 has sensitivity for both sides, the victim and 16 the prisoner, to recognize this is not going to 17 help us and vote it down. 18 I thank you very much, Mr. 19 President. I appreciate your patience, Senator 20 Nozzolio. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 Chair thanks his colleague from western Long 23 Island. 24 Senator Abate. 25 SENATOR ABATE: Would Senator 3019 1 Nozzolio yield to a question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Senator, do you yield to a question? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 7 yields, Senator. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Senator, we have 9 had discussions. I support this bill, but I'd 10 like some clarification around the bill. 11 It's my reading of the bill that 12 this is not a confiscation bill, that if the 13 proceeds that the prisoner gets are frozen and 14 no crime victim comes forward the money is not 15 taken from the prisoner; is that correct? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Correct, 17 Senator. The process, and just let me respond 18 to what that process is for a second. It's a 19 freezing for 60 days, of those awards, and a 20 notice during that period of time to the crime 21 victim that an award was received, a three-year 22 statute of limitations window allowing the 23 victim to pursue in the courts of equity 24 compensation for their damages. 25 SENATOR ABATE: And so if no 3020 1 crime victim comes forward or no crime victim 2 gets a judgment, let's say it's a frivolous 3 action, the prisoner is allowed to keep all of 4 their monies that they recover? 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's 6 correct. 7 SENATOR ABATE: Would the Senator 8 yield to just one more question? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 12 yields. 13 SENATOR ABATE: And the example 14 around, if a prisoner recovers a million dollars 15 for instance, that does not mean that the 16 million dollars will be handed over to a crime 17 victim, because doesn't the crime victim have to 18 first of all file, win a civil action, have 19 damages assessed and awarded in the amount of $1 20 million. They might be successful in civil 21 litigation and win $50,000. That's all they 22 would have a right to is the amount of the award 23 rendered by that court. They would not be able 24 to obtain monies from the prisoner beyond the 25 amount litigated and awarded to the victim in a 3021 1 court of law. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 3 Senator Abate is correct that this provides a 4 process. It provides certain provisional 5 remedies, but the bottom line is that any 6 decision in terms of amount of award to the 7 crime victim is one that must be decided on its 8 merits. 9 SENATOR ABATE: Thank you. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I'm going to vote in favor of 16 this bill, but I really would like to make just 17 two brief points. First of all - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Senator Dollinger, you speaking on the bill? 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I am, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Senator Dollinger, on the bill. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: First of all, 25 I thought that the point that Senator Waldon 3022 1 made should not be lost and, Senator Waldon, I 2 don't know what this means but I saw "Tiger" 3 Woods do it this week end, you go like this. 4 I think that's one of the best 5 questions, one of the most interesting points 6 we've made about any bill we've done in this 7 chamber. What Senator Waldon said is, if what we 8 do is give a disincentive to the prisoner to 9 bring the action because he's not going to get 10 the money, then the prisoner won't bring the 11 action in the first place, so the victim won't 12 get anything, the prisoner won't get anything, 13 and what's unfortunate then, Senator, the 14 consequence of that will be that the deterrent 15 impact of prisoner litigation especially with 16 respect to personal injuries will be lost and 17 unfortunately our prisons and the workshops in 18 our prisons and the care of our prisoners, 19 suddenly they will no longer have to fear for 20 prisoners' lawsuits based on personal injuries 21 or I assume, and I haven't asked Senator 22 Nozzolio this question, but I assume this also 23 applies in cases of civil rights deprivation. 24 If a prisoner's civil rights are violated in the 25 course of a prison as unfortunately occasionally 3023 1 happens even in the best of prison systems, that 2 those inmates won't bring those actions because 3 they know they won't get any proceeds. 4 As a consequence, the deterrent 5 impact of civil litigation, which has had some 6 beneficial impacts in this state in improving 7 the quality of our prisons may be lost 8 completely, and I just worry about that. Again, 9 I commend Senator Waldon for thinking that 10 through, because it seems to me that's something 11 we should be aware of as we pass this bill. 12 The second thought is even 13 simpler. I appreciate Senator Nozzolio bringing 14 up Nathan's name. Nathan is a crime victim. As 15 my understanding is, he was accosted, as Senator 16 Nozzolio properly pointed out, by two or three 17 much younger kids who happened to have in their 18 hands a gun, and it seems to me that the one 19 lesson that we should learn about that is that 20 the one way to make fewer victims is to have 21 fewer guns out on our streets. 22 One of the things that I've 23 brought to this chamber before, things like ban 24 on assault weapons, there are other bills 25 languishing in committees in this chamber that 3024 1 would decrease the amount of guns. There is a 2 Gun Safety Act, all kinds of things that would 3 decrease the amount of weapons that could end up 4 in the hands of 12- and 13-year-olds that 18 5 year-olds walking home from school wouldn't have 6 to become victims, and I would suggest that it's 7 very simple. 8 There are victims' rights, there 9 are gun owners' rights, and it seems to me that 10 sometimes we pay lots of attention to victims' 11 rights. We pay lots of attention to gun owners' 12 rights, and unfortunately the consequence of 13 paying too much attention to the latter is we 14 have too many of the former, and I would just 15 counsel everyone in this chamber that there is 16 some linkage there. It's demonstrated in the 17 example that Senator Nozzolio brought up. 18 One way to go about making fewer 19 victims would be to finally let's deal sensibly 20 with the problem of too many guns. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the 1st day of 25 November. 3025 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Call the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 2, 5 Senators Sampson and Waldon recorded in the 6 negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Volker, that completes 10 the controversial calendar. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Is there any 12 housekeeping at the desk? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 14 believe the house is clean, sir. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: I'm glad you 16 clean it up real well. Very good. 17 There being no further business, 18 I - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Oppenheimer, I'm sorry. Why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 There was a bill that, if I had 25 been in the chamber, this was several days ago, 3026 1 I would have been recorded as no, and that bill 2 was S. 548, Calendar Number 387. I would like 3 the record just to show that, if I had been in 4 the chamber that day, I would have voted no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 6 record will so show. 7 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you 8 so much. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Anybody else? 10 No? 11 There being no further business, 12 I move we adjourn until Wednesday, April 16th, 13 at 11:00 a.m. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 15 Senate stands adjourned until Wednesday, April 16 16th at 11:00 a.m. sharp. 17 (Whereupon at 4:54 p.m., the 18 Senate adjourned. ) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25