Thursday, May 29, 1997

4332 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 May 29, 1997 10 10:06 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4333 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their chairs, the staff to find their 5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to 6 rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to 7 the Flag. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 10 In the absence of clergy, may we 11 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed.) 14 The reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Wednesday, May 28th. The Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, May 27th, 18 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 I have a question about the Journal. I just 24 wanted to determine how many bills were passed 25 in the house yesterday. 4334 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 2 informed by the Secretary that six bills were 3 passed. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Six? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 6 Does that answer your question? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Just one 8 second, Mr. President. I'm just trying to 9 compute my earned run average. 10 Would the Secretary read the 11 bills that we passed. 12 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Tully, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR TULLY: While we are 16 waiting, could you tell me how many bills were 17 laid aside by the Minority yesterday? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I'm 19 informed 20 by the Secretary. 20 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Skelos, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Stretching my 25 legs. 4335 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 titles that were passed yesterday, for your 3 benefit, Senator Paterson, are not in the 4 house. They're at the Journal Clerk's office. 5 They're being brought down, if you would like us 6 to do that, so we can read those titles to you. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, Mr. 8 President. Are the bills -- so you're saying 9 that the bills are not in the actual Journal 10 itself. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: They are 12 never included, I'm informed by the Secretary, 13 in the Journal itself. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I, 18 as one of your admirers -- and that is not said 19 in jest; that is said in actuality -- I know you 20 would not want to have an inaccurate statement 21 that was attributed to you and, Mr. President, I 22 think that not only do the Journals reflect the 23 bill numbers but, as you and I both know, Mr. 24 President, the Journals reflect the language 25 that is uttered by each member of this 4336 1 distinguished body from the time we start to the 2 time that we end, and that is why we have the 3 greatest respect for the young lady sitting here 4 today and for her colleagues who take down these 5 words very, very carefully. So it may be that 6 the words that were uttered today by our 7 distinguished Journal Clerk did not - 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 if the request has been made of the bills listed 10 in the Journal, we can stand at ease, get the 11 Journal and we'll read the names of the -- the 12 numbers of the bills that were passed yesterday, 13 if that's the request of the Minority. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I have 15 them now. They have been provided to me by the 16 Journal Clerk. 17 Senator Paterson, would you like 18 the numbers read? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you so 20 much, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 numbers of the bills that passed yesterday at 23 session were Senate 1659-A, Senate 2648, Senate 24 3267, Senate 3679-A, Senate 4084-A, Senate 25 3479. 4337 1 Now, does anybody have an 2 objection to the Journal? 3 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Gold, you have an objection? 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. 7 President. The -- having given Senator Paterson 8 the information as to the bills that were 9 passed, it's my understanding that the Journal 10 would also include the votes on those particular 11 bills and if we are being asked to approve the 12 Journal, I know that's something that we all 13 take seriously and - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would you 15 like to know the votes, Senator Gold? 16 SENATOR GOLD: I would be very 17 grateful -- I would be very grateful, Mr. 18 President - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 20 Certainly. 21 SENATOR GOLD: -- if we could 22 have the roll calls read for each of the bills 23 we passed. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4338 1 Certainly, Senator Gold. 2 On the first bill, Senate 1659-A, 3 the vote was 60 to 0. 4 On the second bill, Senate 2648, 5 the vote was 60 to 0. 6 On the third bill, Senate 3267, 7 the vote was 60 to 0. 8 On the fourth bill, Senate 9 3679-A, the vote was 60 to 0. 10 On the fifth bill, Senate 4084-A, 11 the vote was 50 ayes, nays 8. 12 On the sixth and final bill that 13 was passed yesterday, the vote was -- that was 14 Senate 3479, the vote was 60 to 0. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. 17 With regard to, I think it was 18 the sixth bill where the vote was 50 to 8, can 19 we have a detailed statement so we can verify 20 those votes? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Journal would reflect that there were eight 23 nays, those nays being Senator Leichter, Senator 24 Mendez, Senator Montgomery, Senator Paterson, 25 Senator Rosado, Senator Seabrook and Senator 4339 1 Smith and Senator Waldon. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 And, Mr. President, does the 5 Journal indicate the debate that was had on that 6 particular piece of legislation? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Just one 8 second, Mr. President. Those were nine nays 9 that I counted. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We do 11 have a remedial reading -- or arithmetic course 12 out in the lobby, Senator Paterson, if you would 13 like to partake in that. That is for members 14 who can't count beyond or even on more than one 15 hand the numbers of nays. 16 Senator Gold, did you wish to 17 make another request or have another objection 18 to the Journal? 19 SENATOR GOLD: Well, my objection 20 to the Journal, Mr. President, is that the 21 Journal has not been read and while there are 22 amenities that sometimes go back and forth from 23 one side of the aisle to the other -- the key 24 words to that statement are "back and forth" - 25 and when it stops going back and there's no 4340 1 forth, that causes some problems. 2 So, Mr. President, I would like 3 the -- if we're being asked to approve the 4 Journal, I would like the Journal read. The 5 Journal includes debate. It includes the votes, 6 as you have just indicated, with detailed 7 statements, not summary statements, and that is 8 my objection. 9 My objection is that if we are 10 being asked to vote, I would like the Journal 11 read. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 16 immediate meeting of the Majority Conference in 17 the Majority Conference Room. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 19 meeting of the Majority Conference in the 20 Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 21 The Senate will stand at ease. 22 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 23 ease from 10:20 a.m. until 11:00 a.m.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Senate will come to order. 4341 1 The Chair recognizes Senator 2 Bruno. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 4 can we at this time call for an immediate 5 meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 8 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, 9 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the 10 Majority Conference Room, Room 332. 11 The Senate will continue to stand 12 at ease. 13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 14 ease from 11:01 a.m. until 1:10 p.m.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 17 find their places, the staff to find their 18 places. 19 Senator Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 21 can we return to motions of standing committees 22 -- reports of standing committees. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order, 24 Mr. President. 25 SENATOR BRUNO: I believe there's 4342 1 a Rules Committee report at the desk. I would 2 ask that it be read. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order, 4 Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: What's 6 your point of order, Senator Gold? 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I would 8 just like the Chair to clarify something for 9 me. We came into session today and following 10 the order of business, the Journal had been 11 offered and we were in the order of business of 12 dealing with the Journal when there was a recess 13 that was taken for a Republican Conference. 14 When we came back from the 15 Republican Conference, I believe there was a 16 call or an announcement that the Rules Committee 17 would be meeting but I don't believe, Mr. 18 President, we have ever left the order of 19 business of dealing with the Journal, and I 20 would -- my point of order, Mr. President, is 21 that I believe we ought to be following the 22 order of business as set forth in our rules and 23 should conclude the first order of business 24 dealing with the Journal before we go on to 25 other orders of business. 4343 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Gold, thank you for giving me the time to review 3 the rules because I don't have these memorized 4 and I have to refer to counsel and that sort of 5 thing. Your recollection of the process that we 6 had is absolutely in order and we were debating 7 -- I shouldn't say debating. There was no 8 motion. We were talking about corrections to 9 the Journal. You had information -- you had not 10 offered any corrections, but if you go to the 11 rules and under Rule VII, paragraph (2), it 12 talks about the Committee on Rules and what you 13 will see is it says "The Committee on Rules may 14 sit at any time" -- and I'm reading this. "The 15 reception/consideration of its reports shall 16 always be in order." 17 So it would be the ruling of the 18 Chair that the report of the Rules Committee, 19 which the Majority Leader has just asked be 20 accepted, is in order at this time. 21 So I'll ask the Secretary to read 22 the report of the Rules Committee. The motion 23 has been made to accept that and certainly 24 that's a question which could be debated. 25 So I'll ask the Secretary to read 4344 1 the report of the Rules Committee and then, if 2 you would like to make a further objection, I'll 3 certainly recognize you for that. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Would the Chair 5 indulge me in one question, please. 6 Mr. Chairman -- Mr. President, 7 first of all, lest you misunderstand, I'm 8 delighted you are in the chair because you do 9 read the rules and I have some degree of comfort 10 that, even though I may lose one here or there, 11 I'm dealing with someone who will try to find a 12 reason for my losing. 13 Mr. President, I think you're 14 right. My question is, we read the Rules report 15 and discuss whether it should be adopted or 16 not. At that point, am I not correct, that, if 17 we are going to do any further business, we are 18 back with our Journal? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think I 20 would like to approach that, Senator Gold, when 21 the issue comes rather than make a predetermined 22 ruling. 23 SENATOR GOLD: All right. I 24 don't have an objection to that, as long as you 25 and I are on target as to where we were and 4345 1 where we're going. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the report of the Rules 4 Committee. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 6 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 7 following bills: 8 Senate Print 898, by Senator 9 Cook, an act to amend the General Business Law; 10 2068, by Senator Holland, an act 11 to amend the Tax Law; 12 3188, by Senator Seward, an act 13 to amend the General Municipal Law; 14 3596, by the Senate Committee on 15 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 16 3965, by Senator Johnson, an act 17 authorizing the assessor of the town of Islip; 18 4473, by Senator Libous, an act 19 to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga County; 20 4474-A, by Senator Libous, an act 21 to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm; 22 4499, by Senator Tully, an act 23 authorizing the assessor of the county of 24 Nassau; 25 4522, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 4346 1 act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967; 2 4767, by Senator Marchi, an act 3 to amend the Business Corporation Law; 4 4790, by Senator Seward, an act 5 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 6 4899, by Senator Saland, an act 7 to authorize the town of Washington in the 8 county of Dutchess; 9 4912, by Senator Alesi, an act to 10 amend the General Business Law; 11 5125, by Senator LaValle, an act 12 to amend the Town Law; 13 5212, by Senator Volker, an act 14 to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of 1996; 15 5277, by Senator Stachowski, an 16 act to legalize, validate and confirm the 17 validity of certain actions; 18 5280, by Senator Volker, an act 19 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to causing 20 the death of a peace officer; 21 5294, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 22 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 23 assault of bus drivers; and 24 52 -- 53... rather ...52, by the 25 Senate Committee on Rules, an act providing for 4347 1 the establishment of the New York State 2 Commission. 3 All bills ordered directly for 4 third reading. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Bruno, the motion is to accept the report of the 7 Rules Committee. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: So moved, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, on 12 the motion - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I have an 16 explanation of why we need to accept the Rules 17 Committee report from the Temporary President? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Bruno, do you yield to a question from Senator 20 Dollinger? 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 22 believe there is a motion on the floor. I would 23 like to dispense with the motion and then we 24 would be happy to answer whatever questions that 25 we -- are appropriate. 4348 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, the motion is a debatable motion, is 3 it not? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Can I ask the 6 Temporary President then why we need to accept 7 the Rules Committee report at this time? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And the 9 way I interpreted the Majority Leader's answer 10 was that he did not wish to yield. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there 12 anyone on the Rules Committee -- in the Majority 13 on the Rules Committee or in support of the 14 Rules Committee -- perhaps even Senator Gold - 15 who participated in the Rules Committee 16 deliberations who can inform me as to why - 17 would Senator Gold yield then? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Bruno. 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Excuse me, Mr. 21 President. If you have a question -- I 22 understand that the motion on the floor -- the 23 Minority has a half hour to debate and it's 24 apparent that they want to run the clock rather 25 than do anything constructive. So we'll start 4349 1 running the clock as of three minutes ago, and I 2 would be happy to answer your question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senator yields, Senator Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'll rephrase 6 the question I asked earlier. Could someone 7 explain to me why we need to accept the Rules 8 Committee report at this time. 9 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 10 we're accepting it at this time so that we can 11 proceed with the -- with a vote and a discussion 12 of each of the bills that will be reported and 13 is being reported out of the Rules Committee. 14 That's the purpose of accepting the motion. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 16 you, Mr. President, if the Temporary President 17 would continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Bruno, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any 25 reason why these bills couldn't be dealt with in 4350 1 the normal course of our procedure, that they 2 couldn't be referred to first reading, why they 3 would have to all be referred to third reading, 4 through you, Mr. President? 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Because that's 6 our preference for the day, Senator, and we're 7 trying to move towards some orderly adjournment 8 in the house and we're trying to dispose of 9 bills as they come before us as efficiently as 10 we can. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 12 you, Mr. President, if the Temporary President 13 would yield just to one question. Were there 14 any Minority reports filed with any of the bills 15 that came through the Rules Committee? 16 SENATOR BRUNO: I'm told by those 17 that were in attendance that there was much 18 discussion by the Minority on a number of the 19 bills that are about to be before us, if that 20 answers your question. So whatever discussion 21 was appropriate took place, as I understand it, 22 and at the conclusion of the discussion, votes 23 were taken and that's why we have an agenda 24 before us. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr. 4351 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 5 glad to yield the floor, I believe to Senator 6 Gold or anyone else who would like to address 7 this issue. I just don't understand -- I know 8 there was a lengthy series of deliberations in 9 the Rules Committee about these bills. I 10 understand that there may be several very 11 controversial bills, that there were questions 12 raised and questions asked about these bills. I 13 wish that we could hear a greater report of what 14 actually happened in the Rules Committee so that 15 we would be enlightened and perhaps the debate 16 on the bills when they come to the floor would 17 be enhanced. We would perhaps save some time if 18 we knew what went on before and ideally would 19 facilitate the process rather than slow it 20 down. 21 So from my point of view, I would 22 hope that there would be some explanation. 23 Perhaps Senator Gold or someone else who 24 participated might give us some explanation 25 about what happened and why we need to accept 4352 1 the report at this time. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 5 Senator Dollinger yield to a question? 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Sure. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Dollinger, do you yield to a question from 9 Senator - 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 11 Dollinger, were you in the chambers when - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 DeFrancisco, let me just find out if Senator 14 Dollinger yields. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 16 glad to, Senator. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger yields. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Were you in 20 the chambers when the Rules Committee meeting 21 was called? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Actually - 23 through you, Mr. President. I'm not sure why 24 that relates -- that question has any relation 25 to the debate about whether to accept it or not, 4353 1 but I'd be glad to answer it anyway. 2 I was in the Rules Committee and 3 listened to part of the debate in the Rules 4 Committee. I was in the chamber for most of the 5 period of time awaiting the Rules Committee 6 report. I'm simply trying to find out -- since 7 I didn't stay there for the whole time and I 8 didn't hear all the discussion, I'm simply 9 trying to find out what happened -- trying to 10 find out what happened in the Rules Committee. 11 Maybe that will enlighten us here, those who 12 weren't members of the Rules Committee and will 13 be able to better debate the bills when they 14 actually come to the floor. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you 16 yield to another question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Dollinger. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 20 you, Mr. President, assuming it's relevant to 21 the issue on the floor, I would be glad to. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I assume 23 the Senators yields with that response. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So I assume 25 that that answer means that you knew that there 4354 1 was a Rules Committee meeting. You could have 2 attended the Rules Committee. You chose to 3 attend part of it and listen to the debate but 4 you chose not to attend the balance of it. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I think 6 that's probably a fair characterization, Mr. 7 President, of my choice in the matter. That's 8 correct. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you 10 could have been there for the whole meeting, had 11 you chose to get all the information that you 12 wanted to get firsthand rather than secondhand 13 through this procedure that you're now calling 14 upon. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again 16 through you, Mr. President. That's entirely 17 true. I think any member in the chamber could 18 go to every single committee meeting and learn 19 -- on every single bill that's going to come 20 before the floor and we could all participate in 21 the committee process. I think that would be a 22 wonderful thing to do. Maybe we should all be 23 members of the standing committees so that we 24 can all go to committees and all vote on that. 25 I think, Senator, that that may actually have 4355 1 some validity. 2 Why don't we just take the whole 3 chamber and put it in every committee room and 4 then every member can go and listen to every 5 single debate in committee so that we're fully 6 informed before we come before the floor. 7 I think that suggestion may have 8 some merit and maybe we should just dismantle 9 the whole committee approach and make everybody 10 a member of every standing committee. I assume 11 that's what you're suggesting we should do. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 DeFrancisco. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 15 Senator yield to one last question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Dollinger, do you yield to one question? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 19 glad to, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 23 Dollinger, isn't it true that you were evoking 24 this procedure today merely to delay the process 25 today so that we will do nothing productive? 4356 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 2 Mr. President. I always find it interesting 3 that when you ask questions and you give answers 4 and you ask further questions, the only reaction 5 or apparently the reaction is, Gee, there's some 6 reason -- there's some other reason than gaining 7 knowledge and information. It seems to me that 8 that's what we're here for. 9 I was on the floor, I think a 10 couple days ago when I wanted to put an 11 amendment to Senator Stafford's bill and, my 12 gosh, it couldn't get to the floor. It was 13 impossible to get it to the floor. A vital 14 issue to my community, critical to my community, 15 couldn't make it to the floor. So I decided 16 that I would step up and try to interject in the 17 proceedings the passion, the commitment that I 18 bring to this chamber representing the 300,000 19 people in Monroe County that I was elected to 20 represent. 21 I brought it to this chamber. I 22 made every effort that I could to get that bill 23 heard to try to make sure that the people in my 24 district got what I thought they needed. It 25 didn't work. It didn't work. 4357 1 Was I stalling that day? Was I 2 delaying that day? I don't think so. I think I 3 was representing the people of my community in 4 doing what they sent me to Albany to do. 5 Today, by asking this question of 6 why do we suddenly have to take a Rules 7 Committee report today -- today, in late June, 8 suddenly we have to bring a Rules Committee 9 report to the floor of this chamber, bills that 10 we could have dealt with at any other time, 11 bills that we could have done during the course 12 of the last couple weeks, bills that, in my 13 judgment, we could have done in January and 14 February when we were doing five bills a day. 15 For some reason we had to take a Rules Committee 16 report, bring it to the floor today and all of a 17 sudden do these 20 bills which are now vitally 18 important to the people of the state of New 19 York. 20 Before I vote to accept that 21 motion, before I decide that that's the right 22 thing for me to do on behalf of my constituents, 23 I think the rules of this house, which I have 24 been quoted ad nauseam in my career in this 25 house, provide me with the opportunity to ask 4358 1 why. What's the big deal? Why does this all 2 have to be done now? Why couldn't it be done in 3 February when we were doing five bills a day or 4 March when we were doing six bills a day or 5 April when we were doing six bills a day? 6 For some reason it wasn't 7 important to do it then but it's vitally 8 important to do it now and when we ask why, 9 we're told, You must be stalling. 10 I don't know. What did we do in 11 January, February, March and April, Senator? 12 What did the Majority do? Were you stalling? I 13 don't know. I'm trying to find out today what's 14 going on. 15 If somebody will give me an 16 answer, a straight answer, I would be glad to 17 take it back home to the people that I 18 represent. I'll give them the message and then 19 I'll make up my mind as to what I ought to do. 20 That's what I'm trying to do, 21 trying to find out what's happening. I don't 22 know why we're accused of stalling when for 23 months we did five bills a day. I mean, that's 24 a question you have to ask yourself. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I ask 4359 1 Senator Dollinger another question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Dollinger, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 5 glad to, Mr. President. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 7 wonder if you could answer a question simply yes 8 or no without the lecture of seven weeks of the 9 sessions of the New York State Senate. 10 Now, very simply, can you do 11 that? Can you answer this next question yes or 12 no and the question is simply, is the reason you 13 are asking for this procedure today to delay 14 today's proceedings? 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 16 President, through you, the answer to that is 17 clearly no. I'm not doing it for that reason. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You 19 answered it. Thank you. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But I'm not 21 -- certainly I've got the floor right now. You 22 asked a question. Let me tell you why "no" is 23 the right answer, because -- and I'll remind you 24 that the people of this state are wondering, 25 what's going on in the Senate chamber? I'm 4360 1 talking to people out and they're wondering 2 what's happening? We're now talking about 3 locking up the Senate chamber. We're going to 4 go behind bars. We're going to cut the public 5 out. We're going to -- somehow there's some 6 reason, there's some urgency created today. All 7 of sudden these Rules bills have to come to the 8 floor. They couldn't have come to the floor the 9 day before or the day before that or weeks 10 before that but they're vitally important 11 today. 12 Well, I don't know. I sit here 13 and say, why are they that important to come 14 today? Why do these bills have to come today? 15 I asked that question. I haven't gotten a 16 straight answer yet. I'll continue to ask it 17 until I do. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 -- excuse me, Senator Dollinger. 21 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR GOLD: Would Senator 23 Dollinger yield to a question? 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would be 25 glad to, Mr. President. 4361 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Dollinger, 2 are you aware of the fact that there is a bill 3 on the Rules agenda, Senate 3596, which is 4 sponsored by the Rules Committee -- apparently 5 nobody wanted to put their name on it -- and 6 that this bill would extend the sales and use 7 taxes for the city of White Plains and that 8 apparently tomorrow the city of White Plains has 9 to do something with regard to their budget and 10 the existing sales tax, I'm told runs out, I 11 believe on August 31st of this year and, 12 therefore, the city of White Plains has to know 13 that this passes in order to do their budget. 14 Having said that, do you know 15 that this bill was introduced by "Senator Rules" 16 on March 14th? Can you tell me why the Majority 17 in this house has found it necessary to hold the 18 city of White Plains hostage from March 14th 19 through the end of March, through the entire 20 month of April, now through the entire month of 21 May so that they could get to the Rules 22 Committee today shivering and say to people, 23 Don't hold up the session. White Plains needs 24 this. 25 Well, maybe the people in White 4362 1 Plains ought to know that they didn't have to be 2 held up. We didn't need Senator Spano to do his 3 lobbying today, which I admire because you're 4 worried about that city, Senator, and I 5 congratulate you, but if it wasn't for your 6 Majority Leader, who you voted for and I didn't 7 -- I'll remind him of that -- the city of White 8 Plains would not have been held hostage. 9 So do you know of any reason, 10 Senator Dollinger, why the city of White Plains 11 couldn't get this bill passed on March 15th or 12 16th or 17th or 18th, et cetera? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger, before you answer, Senator Libous, 16 why do you rise? 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, point 18 of information. I believe the Majority Leader 19 had a motion on the floor. I'm not clear as to 20 whether or not the Majority Leader had yielded 21 the floor to either one of the Senators who are 22 now debating. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Libous, the procedure is that there was a motion 25 to accept the report of the Rules Committee. 4363 1 That motion is debatable. It has a one-hour 2 time limit. A half hour is dedicated to the 3 Minority. A half hour is dedicated to the 4 Majority. At this point the Minority is 5 debating that motion. They are now into it 6 about 16 minutes and so there's about 14 minutes 7 left to debate that motion. 8 So, Senator Dollinger, you now 9 can answer Senator Gold's question. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: In response 11 to Senator Gold's question, I don't know why 12 that bill introduced in March suddenly became 13 important today and why we had to wait three 14 months but, Senator, I get the feeling that 15 that's a trend around here. There's a trend 16 developing. 17 As I recall, Senator Connor 18 introduced a bill relatively early in this 19 session that would extend the rent controls in 20 New York City and that bill hasn't found its way 21 to the floor yet. That bill hasn't been here 22 and I just get the sense that maybe I detect 23 some kind of pattern as far as bills being filed 24 and then all of a sudden we wait until the last 25 second deadline before we do anything. 4364 1 I don't know about you, Senator 2 Gold. I won't attribute any extra legislative 3 motivation to that. I assume that there's a 4 very good reason why White Plains couldn't have 5 its sales tax done in March and it couldn't have 6 it done in April and it couldn't have it done in 7 early May and, frankly, I think it would be 8 wonderful if someone would explain to me in the 9 course of this - 10 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 11 would Senator Dollinger yield to a question? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President, I decline to do that until I finish 14 my response to Senator Gold. I - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Saland, the Senator refuses to yield at this 17 moment. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So I think, 19 Senator Gold, I'm waiting for someone to give me 20 that explanation. I don't know the answer to 21 your question. I'm intrigued by it, as I think 22 you are, and frankly, for some reason these 23 bills are -- these 20 bills, how many bills come 24 out of Rules are suddenly extremely important 25 today and before we accept the Rules Committee, 4365 1 we ought to judge whether or not they're really 2 that important and, frankly, Senator Gold, I'm 3 willing, if what you say is true -- I mean, I 4 don't know that you're the sponsor of that bill 5 but if what you say is true that White Plains 6 needs this to get its fiscal house in order and 7 needs an indication from this Legislature today 8 that that sales tax will be extended, that would 9 be a reason, in my judgment, to vote to accept 10 that portion of the Rules Committee report 11 because that's something we ought to do, but the 12 rest of the bills, I'm not quite so sure. 13 So I'm willing to let anyone give 14 me further edification as to why I ought to 15 accept the report on that basis. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman 17 yield to a further question? 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I will, Mr. 19 President. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 21 Senator Dollinger, you -- I want 22 the record clear on one item. I know, Senator 23 Dollinger, that from my point of view, whatever 24 else happens today, I am certainly prepared to 25 support the bill dealing with the White Plains 4366 1 issue. I was ready to support it all along if 2 that's what they want. It's my understanding 3 that there are other members on this side who 4 are willing to support it. 5 My question, so I understand it, 6 to you, Senator, is that if we were to go to the 7 White Plains bill, for example, which has been a 8 captive of the Republican Party in this house 9 since March 14th, do I understand from your 10 comments you would support it? 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 12 Mr. President. I'm frankly not sure. I would 13 like to hear the sponsor explain why it's 14 needed. As you may know, Senator, I have voted 15 against sales tax extensions for the most part 16 because I don't think it's good public policy to 17 do that in many cases. So I have been 18 consistent -- I think Senator Gentile and I have 19 been leading the fight to try to reduce taxes 20 across the state by voting against those sales 21 tax extensions, so -- but I would like to hear 22 the explanation before I elect to do that. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 24 yield to a question? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4367 1 Dollinger, do you continue to yield to Senator 2 Gold? 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in that 8 particular one instance, you would have no 9 objection to the Senate taking up that bill 10 today. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Absolutely 12 not. Absolutely not. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: It should be 15 taken up. As I said, even though I have a 16 personal opinion -- and I think Senator Gentile 17 and I have demonstrated by voting against those 18 sales tax extenders. Even though I'm not 19 inclined to do it, I think the Majority of this 20 house, consistent with its usual rules, should 21 adopt that bill if it deems it to be appropriate 22 but, again, Senator Gold, I still -- I still 23 haven't heard an explanation from anyone as to 24 why it was held captive for so long. I assume 25 you're not the sponsor of the bill. Maybe the 4368 1 sponsor can tell me why it needs to be done 2 today. What is there about May 29th that 3 suggests that a tax that expires -- I recall you 4 said April -- or August 31st -- what is there 5 about May 29th that makes this the day that it 6 has to be done? I don't quite understand. 7 I will now yield to Senator 8 Saland, if he's so inclined. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Dollinger, do you have any further statements on 11 the motion? 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I have none, 13 Mr. President. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. If -- if 18 Senator Dollinger is finished, I would like to 19 make some comments, if I can, and I want the 20 record to be very clear on this. 21 The debate, as you know, Mr. 22 President, under the rules, indicates a half 23 hour for each side, and I think we ought to stay 24 by that, but that's why I am standing up to 25 throw my support for the acceptance of the Rules 4369 1 report. So please attribute my time, not along 2 with those who may be opposed but for those who 3 are in support, which is a different half hour. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Gold, the Chair would beg to differ with you. 6 You are on the Minority time. So don't be under 7 the impression that simply making a statement 8 that you're altering the rules. The Chair is 9 logging your time against the Minority's time, 10 of which there are about 13 minutes left. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, I 12 know, as you said before, that you are not 13 conversant by memory with all of the rules - 14 none of us are but you are better than most, but 15 I would refer you to Rule Number II, which says 16 that one half hour for and one half hour 17 against. It does not say that it is -- it does 18 not say that it's one side or the other. 19 Now, it is true that the Majority 20 Leader has a right to attribute some time and so 21 does the Minority Leader. So maybe I ought to 22 ask the Acting Temporary President whether I can 23 help in this thing and get some of your time to 24 convince them we ought to approve it. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Gold, 4370 1 when you're speaking, the eloquence of your 2 remarks are sufficient and I will sit here and 3 enjoy them for the next 20 minutes. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. I now 5 have been allocated 20 minutes by the Majority 6 Leader. 7 Mr. President, let me tell you, 8 every one of us -- every one of us is not one 9 thing. We're a mixture of things and I was 10 very, very hurt to find out that, in voting 11 against Senator Bruno to be the leader of this 12 house, he took that personally and felt 13 offended, and the reason that I was hurt is 14 because my vote against him as a leader was not 15 a vote against him to play golf with him or to 16 have dinner with him or to spend time with him 17 because, as everyone in this house will attest, 18 Senator Bruno, when he wants to be, is a very 19 charming and delightful gentleman, intelligent 20 and bright. 21 My vote against him as a leader 22 was for different reasons and obviously Senator 23 Goodman and Senator Padavan had a different 24 feeling, but when I heard that Senator Bruno was 25 going to destroy the tenant population of my 4371 1 city, I couldn't vote for him for leader because 2 I'm voting for him to carry out an agenda and so 3 when Senator Spano and others who were in that 4 predicament with their tenant population gave up 5 the ball game to Senator Bruno, it was too late, 6 but that wasn't a personal vote on my part at 7 all. 8 The other thing which amazes me a 9 little bit -- and I have this in a newspaper 10 story in Queens last week -- I always get amazed 11 that Republicans get offended when you tell the 12 truth about them. 13 Now, Senator Dollinger was asked 14 whether or not he was doing anything to delay 15 the session and, as a matter of fact, I think 16 Senator DeFrancisco said, Are you trying to stop 17 us from doing productive things. 18 The answer is, Senator 19 DeFrancisco, even though you didn't ask me the 20 question, I would never stop this chamber from 21 doing productive things but what you think is 22 productive and what I think is productive may 23 differ. I don't think one-house bills are 24 productive. I don't think holding hostage the 25 municipalities of this state who happen to be 4372 1 represented by Democrats is productive. I think 2 it's kindergarten. I think some of the things 3 that happen in this house are kindergarten. 4 Whenever we get into this 5 discussion, there's always a Republican who 6 stands up and says, Well, you know, I was in the 7 Minority in the Assembly and I know what can 8 happen and all of this. 9 I want to give you an example of 10 something. I want to tell you class versus 11 kindergarten. When the Yankees came up here - 12 the Yankees don't belong to anybody and the 13 Speaker of the Assembly invited the Republicans 14 in with the Democratic members to meet the 15 Yankees. In this house, you scurried the 16 Yankees into your little conference room, kept 17 it quiet and when you came out to the floor, 18 some of you were giggling like babies about how 19 you had created a coup. 20 Gentlemen and lady, we are not 21 kindergartners. We are all 21 and older. I 22 mean, to get a kick out of the concept that you 23 can take a couple of Yankees and bring them in a 24 room and do that is infantile and then when it 25 came out here to who would speak -- well, 4373 1 Senator Velella does represent part of the Bronx 2 and part of another county but there's a lady by 3 the name of Olga Mendez who represents the area 4 where Yankee Stadium is. You don't think that 5 granting the simple courtesy to let that lady 6 say some words was nothing more than infantile 7 conduct? I mean, is the ego so elitist on your 8 part of the aisle that you think any bit of 9 credit that you give to this part of the aisle 10 diminishes whatever you have left? That is just 11 nonsense. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President. 14 SENATOR GOLD: I won't yield 15 right now, sir. 16 My position is a simple one, 17 Senator DeFrancisco. I know a lot about you. 18 You are a businessman who wants to get things 19 done and I respect that. I also happen to 20 think, Senator DeFrancisco -- and it's not for 21 me to get involved in the politics of your party 22 -- that if you were the leader, you would have 23 enough respect for yourself and your people not 24 to have to hold other parts of the state hostage 25 to get your work done. 4374 1 Senator Dollinger, you may not 2 remember this -- some of you may not remember, 3 but we have had other leaders in this house as 4 Republicans and during the term and the reign of 5 an Earl Brydges and Warren Anderson, there were 6 years when there were Democratic members with 10 7 chapters, 5 chapters, 15 chapters, 19 chapters 8 and you want to know something interesting? The 9 Republican Party didn't seem to fall apart. The 10 Republican Party didn't lose its majority and 11 what happened from the point of view of the 12 people? Hundreds of ideas, good ideas that came 13 from Democrats went into the law and helped your 14 people as well as our people. 15 Now, I've told you fellows this 16 informally a number of times. I think your 17 politics are ridiculous. If you let Democratic 18 bills out and you want to pick on a few of what 19 you think are marginals, gee, you would make 20 them look bad. All you're doing is making 21 heroes out of all of our marginals because 22 they're saying, what are you looking at me for? 23 These childish Republicans won't let out any 24 good ideas, such as "A", "B", "C" and "D". 25 So, Senator DeFrancisco, I don't 4375 1 want to hold up the productive work of this 2 chamber. It is not Manny Gold responsible for 3 the fact that the Republicans in this house have 4 not put out a budget. It's not my fault at all. 5 Somebody made the point that it's 6 interesting, isn't it, if the Governor doesn't 7 give a darn about the budget, nobody in the 8 state seems to care the budget. When the 9 Governor was excited his first year in office, 10 everybody got excited. Where's the damn budget 11 -- darn budget, excuse me. Now nobody seems to 12 care because the Governor doesn't care, but at 13 least the Governor put out a budget as bad as it 14 is and, again, Senator DeFrancisco, I don't mean 15 to pick on you but you answered a question from 16 me a week or so ago and you admitted on the 17 floor of this chamber you wouldn't vote for the 18 Governor's budget and I respected that, Senator, 19 and some of you have told me you won't vote for 20 the Assembly budget, but why don't you at least 21 tell the public what you will vote for? Have 22 enough guts to stand up and tell the public, 23 This is the report of our Finance Committee. We 24 say these are the monies. These are the 25 expenditures. You won't do that. 4376 1 The fact is there's a Majority in 2 the Assembly that would restore rent regulation 3 to every tenant just the way it is and there's a 4 Majority in this house who says they will do it 5 but not when the votes come and the Majority 6 Leader says that he's opposed and whatever, but 7 I don't see a bill. 8 The Majority Leader, who has 9 raved time and time again about making this 10 process open and having joint committees of the 11 houses, let the people see us work, has backed 12 away from that because it's not convenient 13 anymore. Why isn't it convenient? Because the 14 positions of your party are so out of step with 15 the public, you're ashamed to put them out. 16 The only way you'll put them out 17 is by agreement. You hope that in the end there 18 will be a tenant bill that's agreed to so now 19 your people can vote for it because everybody 20 else is voting for it, they'll be in agreement 21 but you're ashamed to pass a bill that sets 22 forth your position and how can you govern 23 without shame? That's no way to govern. 24 Senator DeFrancisco, I'm prepared 25 to support every municipality in this state, but 4377 1 I say "all" and "every". I don't say I'll 2 support the ones that are represented by 3 Democrats or represented by Republicans, and I 4 thought we ended this nonsense years ago. 5 We went through it once. Senator 6 Anderson had enough class to realize that it was 7 a losing battle from the Republican Party's 8 point of view and we had a truce and we didn't 9 do this kind of thing. Not only that, as I 10 indicated to you before, Senator Anderson had 11 enough class to -- not yet -- Senator Anderson 12 had enough class to even allow substantive bills 13 to come out and some of them were terrific. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Will Senator 15 Gold yield? 16 SENATOR GOLD: In one minute. 17 Not only that, a guy by the name 18 of John Marchi, in 1970, had enough class to 19 even let a Minority Democrat in the Assembly 20 have his name on a piece of legislation and 21 that's what we're talking about. We're talking 22 about the stature of this house and putting it 23 on a level where everybody participates and who 24 wins and who loses? The people win, and that's 25 what I thought this process was all about. 4378 1 Yes, Senator. You want me to 2 yield? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Professor Gold, 4 I appreciate the lecture. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Any time. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Just one 7 question for clarification. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Sure. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: You know, I can 10 understand you perhaps disagreeing the way the 11 house is managed and that's your right, and when 12 you talk about Warren Anderson, you mention a 13 man of class and he certainly is. Are you 14 indicating in your opinion that Senator Bruno is 15 not a man of class? 16 SENATOR GOLD: Oh, Senator, if 17 that's the -- if that's - 18 SENATOR SKELOS: You're talking 19 about leadership, Senator Gold, and in my 20 opinion - 21 SENATOR GOLD: I thought you 22 asked me a question. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: -- you're 24 insinuating that Senator Bruno is a man not of 25 class, and I want to say to you, in my opinion 4379 1 -- and I know of the Majority members here - 2 Senator Bruno has brought more reform to this 3 chamber. Our conferences were open. I have 4 never seen one of your conferences open to the 5 press -- to the public. We've had conferences 6 opened up with the Speaker, with the Minority 7 Leader there, with the Governor there. These 8 are all reforms that I think are class reforms 9 by a class Majority Leader and that's Senator 10 Bruno. 11 So perhaps you just want to 12 clarify that you're not indicating that Senator 13 Bruno does not have class because I know there 14 would certainly be 34 members here that would 15 disagree with you and I would expect an awful 16 lot of members in the Minority that would 17 disagree with you. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 19 I would be glad to answer that 20 question. Senator, as you and I know, if you 21 take a look at that clock in here, you and I 22 don't know whether that is solid wood or veneer 23 until you make a closer inspection. The reforms 24 that have been made in this house are nothing 25 but veneer. When you get past the surface, they 4380 1 are nothing because the fact of the matter is 2 that this Majority in this house at this time 3 has done more to be regressive towards the 4 rights of Minority members in this house than 5 anyone ever was and for no reason. It gains you 6 nothing. As a matter of fact, it lost you two 7 seats last time around and counting. 8 So when you say to me, does -- am 9 I implying that Senator Bruno doesn't have 10 class, I would say to you, Senator, that the 11 world is not black and white. It is gray. 12 Senator Anderson had class. In 13 saying that, I don't have to say anything about 14 Senator Bruno. We'll make our own judgments as 15 to whether on a scale of one to ten where he 16 fits in. I don't have to comment about him. I 17 told you before, I think he's a lovely 18 gentleman. If he gets me a horse that won't 19 kill me -- which is an issue right there -- I 20 would be glad to go horseback riding with him, 21 but that's just not the issue. 22 One thing which I think you may 23 want to do, Senator Skelos, because I know you 24 are a power in your party, is you might want to 25 read the papers. We have, in the 26 years I 4381 1 have been a member of this house, said a lot of 2 things over the years and the gentlemen and 3 ladies of the press have taken that as political 4 stuff because that's what Minorities say. Not 5 this year. Why don't you read the papers. 6 They're printing it this year. They're starting 7 to understand it, Senator. They're starting to 8 understand how the Majority in this house warps 9 the process. 10 There was -- and I've told you 11 this before -- the very - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Skelos, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Have there been 15 Joint Conference Committees appointed in the 16 Legislature with Minority representation where 17 we've had results of the breast cancer pesticide 18 bill resolved, we've had the speed limit issue 19 resolved, small city school issues resolved? 20 Senator Gold, you know, when 21 you're speaking, I'm generally attentive because 22 your comments are always riveting and I never 23 know what to expect from you, and certainly I 24 think when myself or any other member is 25 speaking, especially if they've asked you to 4382 1 yield, that similar courtesy could be extended. 2 SENATOR GOLD: You haven't missed 3 a word. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very 5 much. 6 So I think that with the Majority 7 Leadership of Joe Bruno, there have been many 8 wonderful reforms instituted as have been 9 written by the press, Joint Conference 10 Committees, all night sessions have been 11 eliminated, starting on time, many, many reforms 12 which I think have been significant and Senator 13 Bruno has indicated that these reforms will 14 continue, but it's interesting how, when I bring 15 up the one issue -- the one issue of a Democrat 16 Minority Conference open to the press, it's 17 never happened. It's never happened and we've 18 had our conferences open. We've had the 19 conferences or the leadership meetings which 20 Senator Connor has attended, with the Governor, 21 with the Speaker, Minority Leader in the 22 Assembly. They have been open to the public and 23 to the press. Our Joint Conference Committees 24 are open to the public and the press but we have 25 not seen one of your conferences open to the 4383 1 public and the press. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 3 Senator Connor will have something to say in a 4 moment on that because it just isn't true in 5 terms of our conference but, Senator Skelos, I 6 listened to the question and I'll answer the 7 question, and I say to myself, who are you 8 talking to? Who are you talking to? The press 9 knows what you've done and what you haven't 10 done. In the three-year period, there were 11 three bills out of 3- or 4,000 where you called 12 Conference Committees. Where is the Conference 13 Committee on rent? Where is the Conference 14 Committee on the budget? These things are big 15 issues. Where's the Conference Committees on 16 some of the crime bills where this house and the 17 other house has a differential? Where is the 18 Conference Committees on education funding 19 formula? Where is the Conference Committee on 20 anything? 21 This is nonsense. You do it once 22 and you call it a reform because you can put 23 that notch in there? Conference Committees mean 24 we do it. It's a regular course. We get work 25 done and as far as the fact of your open 4384 1 conference on one day or whatever that was -- I 2 think we opened it up once also -- that's not 3 reform. I don't know who you're kidding. You 4 and I are not debating in the middle of Europe 5 where nobody knows what's going on. The 6 reporters who hear this know what's going on. 7 Our members know what's going on. Your members 8 know what's going on. So just standing up and 9 saying the reforms have happened doesn't make 10 anything the truth because all of us know the 11 truth. 12 Senator Connor, I'm sorry. I 13 yield to Senator Connor. 14 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 15 President, just to set the record straight. 16 I'm enjoying this debate, 17 particularly hearing Senator Dollinger oppose 18 the motion and Senator Gold support it, but I 19 did want to point out that Senator Skelos was in 20 error. The day, the one day, the one occasion 21 when the Majority Conference was open to the 22 press here, at the very same time we had our 23 conference and it was open to the press. They 24 all went to yours, including some of our 25 members. 4385 1 SENATOR SKELOS: May I add that 2 Senator Dollinger attended also. 3 SENATOR CONNOR: That was their 4 choice. Some of our members attended yours. 5 You were all invited to ours as was the press. 6 They all chose to go there. We had a nice 7 quiet, small conference but it was open, in 8 fact, and I would point out about the reform of 9 the Conference Committees, Senator Skelos very 10 correctly articulated the only three times in 11 the last two and a half years when these 12 Conference Committees were used, on the breast 13 cancer legislation, the small cities school 14 budget vote and the speed limit bill, and I 15 would point out that this year the Speaker has 16 been repeatedly calling for Conference 17 Committees on the budget and for Conference 18 Committees even on the rent issue and that 19 requires this house to take some action to pass 20 a bill which the Majority hasn't even brought a 21 bill on any of those topics to the floor, but if 22 you do and you pass those bills, then hopefully 23 we would have Conference Committees again, but I 24 did want to set the record straight. Our 25 conference was certainly open to the press on 4386 1 that very same occasion. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will call the roll on the motion. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I just be 5 heard against the -- I want to argue against the 6 point that Senator Gold talked about about 7 productivity. 8 I would simply point out -- and 9 Senator DeFrancisco raised the same issue and, 10 again, I'm speaking against the acceptance of 11 the Rules Committee report. The notion that we 12 have to do something productive today, when 13 we're doing three or four bills all through 14 February, March and April, when we were doing 15 nothing, I would simply point out the other 16 fact. 17 As of May 1st, we had been in 18 session, I believe 44 days. There have been 44 19 chapters created. We have been doing one law a 20 day and for that, the people of the state of New 21 York are paying about $1 million a day. So for 22 all of a sudden somebody to say to me, Well, 23 it's time to get productive, we got to do all 24 these bills that were printed in March that need 25 to be done on the 29th of May, I think is quite 4387 1 foolish. We had all that time in January and 2 February and March and April when the people 3 were paying us -- the people were giving us per 4 diems, the people were paying our travel 5 expenses, we could have done any one of these 6 bills on that day -- on those days. Instead we 7 did nothing, nothing, nothing and for someone to 8 now suggest that the reason we're stalled is 9 because today in this chamber we've decided to 10 debate these issues and bring them to the floor, 11 to say it's our fault, it seems to me is equally 12 as foolish. 13 We had 44 chapters in 44 days. I 14 didn't control that agenda. I don't set the 15 Rules Committee agenda. I don't set the agendas 16 of all those committees that were suggested that 17 I should attend. I don't get to do that. 18 Somebody else gets to do that. Why didn't we 19 get anything done? Why haven't we done anything 20 this year? I would suggest that perhaps you not 21 cast your glance over to this side of the aisle 22 but instead look some place else for that 23 explanation. 24 I don't understand why we would 25 suddenly be accused of doing nothing. We would 4388 1 be accused of being obstructionist when the 2 people of this state have had four and a half, 3 almost five full months of doing nothing from 4 this house. 5 That's the reason why I'm opposed 6 to the acceptance of the Rules Committee 7 report. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 motion is to accept the report of the Rules 10 Committee. All those in favor signify by saying 11 aye. 12 (Response of "Aye".) 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (Response of "Nay".) 15 The Rules report is accepted. 16 The Chair recognizes Senator 17 Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, I 19 would like to proceed with a bill but before I 20 do, I just wanted to give an indication to my 21 colleagues here in the Senate that Monday - 22 whenever we adjourn today at whatever hour -- I 23 would suggest that we be prepared to spend some 24 time here in the chamber because we are 25 contemplating, as the Senator referred to, 4389 1 having a closed call of the house and that will 2 help us ensure that members come here, stay here 3 and we do the work that has to be done because 4 we are going to move in an orderly way towards 5 recessing some time hopefully, according to our 6 calendar, by June 25th. 7 So today we were contemplating 8 doing that but without previous notice, I think 9 it would be a great inconvenience, not to the 10 Senators who are paid to be here and do this 11 work but to the constituents that many of them 12 had appointments with and had to be back in 13 their own districts on both sides of the aisle. 14 So, Mr. President, we will on 15 Monday see where we are and what has to be done 16 then and make that judgment accordingly. 17 At this time I would ask that we 18 take up Senator Cook's bill, Number 898. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Point of order, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Gold, point of order. State your point of 23 order, please. 24 SENATOR GOLD: My point of order 25 is very simple. I believe, Mr. President, we 4390 1 were in the order of business of doing the 2 Journal, as I reiterated earlier. 3 Now, just to make the record 4 clear, I believe there is one bill on the Rules 5 report which is a bill for White Plains and if 6 the Majority Leader, in his sole discretion, 7 wanted to pull that bill and get that done 8 because that bill apparently has a time limit, I 9 certainly would make no objection and I'm told 10 that the Minority on this side would be very 11 supportive for the most part -- I can't speak 12 for every member, be supportive. 13 So the record ought to be very 14 clear, if we don't do that bill today, it's 15 strictly up to the Majority, but I would object 16 to any other bills being called until we finish 17 with the Journal, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold, I would again refer to the section of the 20 rules that I referred to earlier when I made the 21 ruling that I did, that being Rule VII, 22 Subdivision (2), and if you look specifically at 23 the last sentence of that rule, it does say "If 24 the report be adopted", which it was, "all 25 inconsistent rules of the Senate shall be 4391 1 automatically suspended until the subject of 2 such report has been disposed of, including 3 final action thereon" and it is the ruling of 4 the Chair that "final action thereon" includes 5 the adoption of those bills on the Rules 6 report. 7 So we will -- all of the bills 8 that were reported coming from Rules are 9 properly before the house for action thereon. 10 That's what Senator Bruno has asked for and so 11 we will be taking up Senator Cook's bill first. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Could I ask you 13 for an indulgence for a minute or two? I just 14 checked that so I may not have to go through an 15 appeal of the Chair. If you're right, I'll be 16 the first one to admit it. (Pause) 17 Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 19 Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I have 21 reviewed the rule and I have determined that you 22 are correct. 23 So I thank you for your - 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Did the 25 stenographer get that statement by Senator 4392 1 Gold? 2 SENATOR GOLD: And as has been 3 done in the past by your side of the aisle, why 4 don't we amend the record to change that. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the title. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1074, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 898, an act 9 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 10 to fees of justice courts. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 14 act shall take effect on the first day of 15 January. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 The Secretary will continue to 23 read the report of the Rules Committee. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1075, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2068, an 4393 1 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 2 providing for business tax credits. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1076, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3188, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 16 relation to intermunicipal agreement. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4394 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar 3 Number - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. The Rules 8 agenda which I have does not have calendar 9 numbers on it, so it's hard for me to make the 10 adjustment, but I'm looking at the agenda here 11 and it has Senator Cook's bill, 898, which I 12 think we have done. 13 The next one I have is 2068, 14 which is Senator Holland, which I believe we 15 have done. Is that correct? 16 The next one - 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Let me 18 check. 19 SENATOR GOLD: The next one it 20 shows is 3188 by Senator Seward. I think -- did 21 we just do that? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 23 correct. 24 SENATOR GOLD: The next one is 25 3596. Have we done that? 4395 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No. We 2 have only done three bills at this point, 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Okay. Can I ask 5 what was the next bill called? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 7 hasn't been a bill called. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, 9 Senator. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I have 11 been busy signing them. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, 13 Senator. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will continue to read the report of 16 the Rules Committee. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 19 Assembly Bill Number 4796 and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1073. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 substitution is ordered. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1073, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 25 Assembly Print 4796, an act to amend the Tax 4396 1 Law, in relation to extending the sales and use 2 taxes by the city of White Plains. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 11 Senator Gentile recorded in the negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1077, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3965, an 16 act authorizing - 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 Senator Dollinger. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 22 President, I was out of the chamber. I 23 apologize, but could I be recorded -- unanimous 24 consent to be recorded in the negative on 25 Calendar Number 1073 which is the sales tax bill 4397 1 I believe I discussed before. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 4 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number -- well, it's actually Senate 6 Print 3596. 7 The Secretary will continue to 8 call the report of the Rules Committee. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1078, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4473, an 11 act to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga 12 County. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 15 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 16 will lay the bill aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1079, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4474-A, an 19 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 22 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 23 will lay the bill aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1080, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4499, an 4398 1 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 2 Nassau to accept an application. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will lay the bill aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1081, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4522, 8 an act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 12 will lay the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an 15 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in 16 relation to the organization of professional 17 service corporations. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside at the request of the Minority 21 Leader. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1083, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4790, an 24 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 25 relation to the definition of real property. 4399 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside at the request of the Minority 5 Leader. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1084, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899, an 8 act to authorize the town of Washington in the 9 county of Dutchess. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 11 a home rule message at the desk. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 14 bill aside at the request of the Minority 15 Leader. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1085, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4912, an 18 act to amend the General Business Law, in 19 relation to criminal and monetary sanctions. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside at the request of the Minority 23 Leader. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1086, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5125, an 4400 1 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 2 increasing the number of and the length of the 3 terms of office. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside at the request of the Minority 8 Leader. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 10 Number 1087, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 11 5212, an act to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of 12 1996. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside at the request of the Minority 17 Leader. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1088, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5277, 20 an act to legalize, ratify and confirm. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside at the request of the Majority 24 Leader. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4401 1 1089, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5280, an 2 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 3 causing the death of a peace officer. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 7 bill aside at the request of the Minority 8 Leader. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1090, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5294 - 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1091, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Print 5322, an act providing for the 17 establishment of the New York State Commission. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 21 bill aside at the request of the Minority 22 Leader. 23 The Secretary will call the 24 controversial calendar on the Rules Committee 25 agenda, beginning with Senate Print 3965. 4402 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1077, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 3965, an 3 act authorizing the assessor of the town of 4 Islip. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Johnson, an explanation has been requested on 9 Senate Print 3965. 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. President, 11 this bill will allow the aquarium in Bay Shore 12 which is under -- which is going to be built - 13 it is not been built yet -- which has acquired 14 some land to apply for exemption from real 15 property taxes as provided in the Not-For-Profit 16 Law. They didn't file on times. This let's 17 them file on time. It doesn't grant the 18 exemption. It merely makes it possible to make 19 the application for that. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 23 if Senator Johnson would yield for a question. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Johnson, do you yield? 4403 1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 6 Johnson, is there a home rule message on this 7 piece of legislation? 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's not 9 necessary, Mr. -- it's not necessary, Senator. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the 11 delay -- are we regarding the delay as 12 ministerial; it didn't affect any process by the 13 fact that the -- the application was late? 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, taxes 15 already (inaudible) the bill, when it was 16 acquired and not paid and, of course, another 17 year has elapsed and they just noticed when they 18 got their first tax bill that they did not file 19 for an exemption. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: And, Senator 21 Johnson, if you'll continue to yield. I am 22 wondering about the consultation with local 23 authorities on this. I assume you've done 24 that. There's no need for a home rule message 25 and so I'm hoping that you've checked to make 4404 1 sure everybody in Bay Shore wants this. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator 3 Paterson, the local town government is very 4 enamored of this project. They're very happy 5 that's it's happening and it's going to help to 6 rebuild the downtown area of Bay Shore and 7 they're not going to miss the $8,000. It's 8 going to be a $40 million project right in their 9 community. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, thank 11 you, Mr. President. 12 I'm sure they're also enamored of 13 Senator Johnson. There are no further 14 questions. 15 I'm going to vote in favor of 16 this bill and I'm going to recommend that every 17 member of this body vote for it as well. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Dollinger. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will Senator 23 Johnson yield to a question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Johnson, do you yield to a question from Senator 4405 1 Dollinger? 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, as I 3 understand it -- I assume that was a yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Johnson, do you yield? 7 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. I stood 8 up and yielded, yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: As I 12 understand this, Mr. President, the entity here, 13 the Long Island Aquarium, acquired a piece of 14 property after the tax rolls had already been 15 set and, therefore, they weren't able to get the 16 benefit of the not-for-profit exemption because 17 the tax status of the property had already been 18 declared for the entire year, is that correct? 19 SENATOR JOHNSON: It was taxable 20 property while it was taken, yes, and I guess 21 they paid that tax and now another year has come 22 by and they want to eliminate the tax in this 23 year and get last year's tax back which they 24 shouldn't have paid. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 4406 1 you, Mr. President, if Senator Johnson - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Johnson, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senator continues to yield. 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do I 8 understand it, Senator, that they owned the 9 property for a year, paid the taxes for a year 10 and then didn't file for the exemption so 11 they've had to pay taxes for the second year? 12 SENATOR JOHNSON: Just about, 13 close enough. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Excuse me, 15 Mr. President. I didn't hear the answer. I 16 apologize. 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: The answer is 18 you're essentially correct. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Mr. 20 President, on the bill. 21 I voted against these kinds of 22 measures in the Local Government Committee. 23 Senator Cook and I have had this discussion in 24 the Local Government Committee about what do we 25 do for these entities that have not-for-profit 4407 1 status that have the ability to get a tax 2 exemption but they buy property halfway through 3 the year and then they immediately come to their 4 favorite state legislator -- Senator Johnson, I 5 assume you're on the top of their list -- and 6 say we shouldn't have to pay property taxes for 7 any of that period of time in the single year, 8 the half year, quarter of a year, two-thirds of 9 a year, three-quarters of a year that the 10 property was on the tax rolls as taxable 11 property. 12 Senator Cook and I had this 13 discussion with Senator Rath. We talked about 14 whether this is fair, just and proper, and I 15 voted against bills that would allow not-for 16 profit entities to abate the taxes for a single 17 year. When they buy the property one year, it's 18 already on the tax rolls as taxable property. 19 They've got to pay the tax for that year. There 20 have been bills, as I recall them, in the Local 21 Government Committee in which entities came in 22 and said we want relief from that one year, the 23 year we bought its taxes. 24 With all due respect to the Long 25 Island Aquarium, they got that one year and now 4408 1 they're looking to abate the second year of the 2 taxes. Quite frankly, I don't think this is 3 good public policy. We have to have a tax 4 cut-off date in which we establish tax rolls for 5 the purposes of collecting real property taxes. 6 It's not -- if somebody can come 7 up with a better way to do it, then the 8 arbitrary cut-off date that we have in law 9 currently, which we have to have for the 10 purposes of local government finance so they can 11 count on anticipated revenues, it seems to me 12 that that rule makes good sense. It's not 13 perfect. It's one of those arbitrary things 14 that government has to do in order for the 15 government to have its reliability function 16 achieved. 17 What we're doing here by saying 18 to the Long Island Aquarium or any one of these 19 other entities that have come before us, these 20 bills all seem to have the same political 21 affiliation of the sponsor on them and I 22 understand they make everyone popular, but this 23 is not good public policy for local 24 communities. It's not good public policy to 25 have these bills pass this house or for that 4409 1 matter become law because what we're really 2 saying is that the local communities can't count 3 on their local property taxes and that we're 4 going to cut out politically favored exemptions 5 for the Long Island Aquarium, for religious 6 organizations. I think this is bad public 7 policy. 8 I urge -- contrary to my 9 colleague, Senator Paterson, I would urge all my 10 colleagues to vote against this to maintain the 11 integrity of real property taxes for local 12 communities. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 14 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 15 (There was no response.) 16 There is a home rule message at 17 the desk. The Secretary will read the last 18 section. There is no home rule message at the 19 desk. I was anticipating the next bill. 20 So the Secretary will read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 25 roll. 4410 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 3 the negatives. Announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1077 are 6 Senators Cook, Dollinger and Mendez. Ayes 55 - 7 those recorded in the negative on Calendar 8 Number 1077 are Senators Cook and Dollinger. 9 Ayes 56, nays 2. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 The Secretary will continue to 13 read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1078, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4473, an 16 act to authorize the town of Richford, Tioga 17 County. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Libous, an explanation of Senate Print 4473 has 21 been requested by the Deputy Minority Leader, 22 Senator Paterson. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. 25 This is a fairly simple piece of 4411 1 legislation. It's an act that authorizes the 2 town of Richford in Tioga County to discontinue 3 and convey a small parcel of land to four 4 residents. The parcel of land is one that the 5 -- a very small strip that the DOT no longer 6 wants to have upkeep on and at this present 7 time, the local board felt that it was in the 8 best interests to convey the land to the four 9 homeowners. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 I understand. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. There is 16 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 17 will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 4412 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1079, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4474-A, an 3 act to legalize, validate, ratify and confirm 4 certain actions taken by the town of Maine. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Libous, an explanation of Senate Print 4474-A 8 has been requested by Senator Dollinger. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 10 President. 11 Senator Dollinger, this is one of 12 those unfortunate situations that comes up from 13 time to time in local government. An official 14 of the local town made some commitments to a 15 company who does paving work and, unfortunately, 16 he really didn't have the authority to make 17 those commitments. However, the work was 18 completed for the town and the town now feels an 19 obligation to pay the contractor for the work. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would 24 Senator Libous just yield to one question? 25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 4413 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Libous, in 4 this particular situation, the only concern that 5 some of us had in the Rules Committee -- and 6 it's a concern which you and I will finish here 7 in 35 seconds, I'm sure -- is the issue of 8 whether or not we are authorizing bonds to be 9 making payments which may be in excess of 10 value. In other words, if there was some 11 wrongdoing in the letting of the contract, it 12 would make no sense to issue bonds to pay one of 13 the wrongdoers extra money. Now, we don't know 14 -- I'm not saying there are wrongdoers, don't 15 get me wrong, but has that been accounted for in 16 the considerations here? 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: The problem - 18 as far as any criminal charges or any charges 19 against anyone, those are still pending. Those 20 decisions will have to be made. 21 The -- I'm not here, Senator 22 Gold, to say who did the wrongdoing. The only 23 thing the town is saying, they have an 24 obligation. The work was completed and they 25 need to pay for that work. 4414 1 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the only 2 question I have -- and I'm serious. This is it 3 -- is if there was a determination locally that 4 the contract was not only done improperly but 5 maybe wrongfully in other ways, we are not 6 stopping the town from having any defense about 7 paying if it turns out that they're being over 8 charged. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: No, we are not. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 11 much. Last section. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 17 quick question to Senator Libous. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Libous, do you yield to a question from Senator 20 Dollinger? 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The only 25 thing that occurs to me, Senator, was the 4415 1 highway superintendent bonded when he did this? 2 Does the town of Maine have any recovery against 3 the bonds that would have been posted by the 4 superintendent when he acts outside his 5 authority? 6 I'm going to vote in favor of 7 this. I think we should do this. This is a 8 problem that we should cure but is there any way 9 that the town bought a bonding for the 10 superintendent so that when this happened they 11 have some recovery through their bond? 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I don't believe 13 they do, but that's something that they may want 14 to consider in the future. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. Thank 16 you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 18 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4416 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1080, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4499, an 5 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 6 Nassau to accept an application. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 8 please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 some Senator wishing an explanation of the 11 bill? Hearing none, the Secretary will read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Excuse me. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: I asked for 17 the explanation, Mr. President. I'm sorry, Mr. 18 President. I asked for the explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Tully, apparently an explanation was asked for 21 by Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR TULLY: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 This bill would authorize the 25 assessor of the county of Nassau to accept an 4417 1 application for exemption from real property 2 taxes as though previously made in accordance 3 with the assessment roll completed on August 4 1st, 1996. 5 What happened was the county of 6 Nassau gave a grant of $250,000 to this Harvest 7 House 3, which is a shared housing alternative 8 for low income elderly and because of some 9 delays, they closed on February 3rd, 1997, went 10 to the assessor's office, sought an exemption 11 and were advised that they can only make the 12 exemption from September to December and this 13 legislation would give them the authority to 14 apply for it as though they made it timely and 15 authorize the assessor to refund the taxes 16 previously paid. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 20 if the Senator would yield for a question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Tully, do you yield? 23 SENATOR TULLY: Yes, Mr. 24 President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4418 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Normally this 3 would be an administrative procedure and if I 4 understand you correctly, the reason that this 5 situation at Harvest House 3 requires 6 legislative action is the fact that by the time 7 the settlement was made, the date had already 8 expired. Is that correct assessment? 9 SENATOR TULLY: That's accurate, 10 Mr. President. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: So then 12 resting assured that there is no fault on the 13 part of Harvest House 3 and that there wasn't 14 any other great activity at the other two 15 Harvest Houses, I'll vote for the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 24 the negatives. Announce the results. 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 2, 4419 1 Senators Cook and Dollinger recorded in the 2 negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1081, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 4522, 7 an act to amend Chapter 619 of the Laws of 1967. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Paterson, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR PATERSON: On this piece 12 of legislation, I don't need as much an 13 explanation as much as if Senator DeFrancisco 14 would yield for a question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 DeFrancisco, do you yield? 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I can 21 understand what the wishes of Onondaga County 22 are in this situation that they want to be 23 withdrawn from the Finger Lakes region. What I 24 would like to know is what is the opinion of the 25 adjoining counties about this -- about this 4420 1 removal? 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: This bill 3 does not call for Onondaga County to be removed 4 from the Finger Lakes region. It just declares 5 the -- it follows through on the request of the 6 county legislature that would give them that 7 opportunity if they chose to. 8 Presently they are in the Finger 9 Lakes region and they're mandated to be so by 10 law. So by passing a bill such as this, the 11 county of Onondaga now would have the 12 flexibility to go to surrounding regions and 13 have discussions with surrounding regions and if 14 and when they work out a different partnership, 15 they would have the authority to come up with an 16 additional region. Right now when they go to 17 adjoining counties, adjoining counties aren't 18 interested in talking because the law mandates 19 that they stay in the Finger Lakes region. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 If Senator DeFrancisco would 23 continue to yield. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4421 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'll 3 take responsibility for assuming that their end 4 objective was to remove themselves from the 5 Finger Lakes region because I've thought that 6 was probably why they raised the discussion and 7 in the interest of expedience and speed, which 8 everyone here knows that I'm working as hard to 9 get out of here as anyone he is, I just thought 10 I would skip over that point and just assume, 11 which I never should have done, that that would 12 be their end objective. Would there be any 13 other reason other than that that they would be 14 wanting to have that option? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: They have 16 not been able to work on any partnerships - 17 they haven't been able to work on any 18 partnerships because no one wants to talk to 19 them because they're currently mandated to be in 20 the Finger Lakes. 21 There is another reason. The 22 fact that Onondaga County as a whole is in the 23 Finger Lakes region may not be their ultimate 24 decision. They may decide that the westernmost 25 towns, including the town of Skaneateles, which 4422 1 is right on a Finger Lake, they may want to stay 2 in the Finger Lakes region and they may be 3 broken in parts, Onondaga County may be, where a 4 part may be in one region, part would be in 5 another. 6 So it's not only to give them the 7 flexibility as a county to meet with other 8 counties and possibly entirely get out of the 9 Finger Lakes region but it will also allow them 10 the flexibility to be part in and part out if 11 they choose to. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Paterson. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Current law, 15 Mr. President, through you to Senator 16 DeFrancisco, is a bar to this kind of discussion 17 or it's -- at least there's a perception among 18 the other counties that there can't be any 19 discussion until we resolve this issue? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. It's 21 not a bar but -- as a matter of law. It's a bar 22 as a matter of practical dealings. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: I was saying 24 as a matter of perception. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's 4423 1 correct. Why talk to Onondaga County as long as 2 they're still required to be in the Finger 3 Lakes. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand. 5 If the Senator will continue to yield for 6 another question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Senator continues to yield. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: This is 13 actually a question that Senator Gold had, but 14 he's a little shy and he asked me to ask it for 15 him. What would be the benefit -- can you think 16 of a benefit should the occasion arise when the 17 entire county would like to be removed from the 18 Finger Lakes region? How would that benefit the 19 county? If -- in other words, it may not 20 actually happen as you just stated but if it 21 did, can you suggest to us how that would be 22 beneficial to the county or even - 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: As I 24 mentioned, there is a division of feeling in the 25 county depending on where in the county you are, 4424 1 whether they want to stay in or get out but 2 those that want this flexibility feel that 3 they're being -- that Central New York may have 4 a better identity by coming up with a different 5 image rather than the Finger Lakes because I 6 don't think many people think of Syracuse, New 7 York as a Finger Lake area. They may think of 8 Skaneateles because it's on a Finger Lake but - 9 and I think that's the general idea to try to 10 get a different identity, a better identity 11 that's more appropriate for Central New York. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 13 on the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson, on the bill. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: I agree with 17 Senator DeFrancisco and I thought his answer was 18 quite sufficient. I don't know if it was 19 sufficient enough for Senator Gold but it was 20 for me and then after all, I asked it, so why 21 would I care -- well, I do care but that's 22 another issue. 23 I spent two summers in Syracuse. 24 I never considered them part of the Finger Lakes 25 region, and so I guess I'm in favor of the bill. 4425 1 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Would the 5 gentleman from Syracuse yield to a question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 DeFrancisco, do you rise -- do you yield? 8 Excuse me. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I'm not 11 sure how all this works but is it my 12 understanding that if they are part of one of 13 these regions, that when you put out, for 14 example, the "I Love of New York" brochures or 15 they do other things like that, you would find 16 them listed under that region. So if somebody 17 said they wanted to go to Central New York, they 18 wouldn't find the events of Onondaga County 19 listed there because they would be under the 20 Finger Lakes. Is that the kind of thing we're 21 talking about? 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's 23 correct, and plus state funding depends a lot 24 upon regions for matching funds to the various 25 regions to advertise their particular benefits 4426 1 for tourism. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if 3 you would yield to another question, please. 4 The question that Senator 5 Paterson asked initially, which I don't think 6 was really answered because maybe it wasn't 7 spotlighted, if Onondaga County were to remove 8 itself, is there financial lack of benefit or 9 injury to the other counties that remain in the 10 Finger Lakes area because of the fact that 11 Onondaga pulls out? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, no, and 13 the concept is just about every -- every area is 14 not mandated to be in a region. The Finger 15 Lakes, for some reason beyond my knowledge, 16 became a region requiring the people to stay in 17 that region. Onondaga County passed a 18 resolution saying we want that region and we 19 want to be part of that and that's how the law 20 was drafted. Times have changed. They don't - 21 some don't want to be in any longer and they 22 want the flexibility to have -- to choose 23 another reason possibly just like any other area 24 of the state does. 25 SENATOR GOLD: If you'll answer 4427 1 one more question. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senator continues to yield. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Are you saying - 6 well, actually it's two. The first one is 7 easy. Are you saying, Senator, that all of the 8 regions are not defined in law. It's only the 9 Finger Lakes region. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's 11 correct. All the regions are not mandated to be 12 in this region except for the Finger Lakes. 13 It's the only one. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. My only 15 question, Senator, is wouldn't it be then 16 perhaps a situation where we should just 17 eliminate these mandates from the law and let 18 the various regions, as they want to, make their 19 hookups and do the advertising that way instead 20 of the Legislature being involved because from 21 our point of view -- I mean, I'm going to 22 support it because I couldn't care less. If 23 they feel it's better for them economically, I 24 want to support it, but it's just strange to me 25 that it should be a matter where the Legislature 4428 1 has to be involved. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 3 don't know the original reason why it was 4 mandated for this region and not other regions 5 but my concept here is that Onondaga County has 6 chosen that they want to get out. If other 7 Finger Lakes counties have that same feeling, 8 I'm sure their Senators will bring that to the 9 attention of the Legislature or me as Chairman 10 of the Tourism Committee, I will be more than 11 happy to look at legislation if that's what the 12 individual counties want. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a home rule message at the desk. 15 Senator Dollinger, do you wish to 16 speak on the bill? 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President, just on the bill and this really just 19 follows up a point that Senator Gold talked 20 about some time ago. 21 This bill was authored on the 22 15th day of April. I think it's a good bill. 23 It needs to be done today, the 29th March 24 through a Rules Committee? It was in the 25 Tourism Committee. The Tourism Committee, I'm 4429 1 sure had ample opportunity to report this bill, 2 could have reported it at any time. Senator 3 DeFrancisco is the chair of that committee. It 4 could have come right to the floor, nice bill. 5 Does a good thing for the community that he 6 represents. 7 I'm going to vote in favor of it 8 but why we had to have it on the Rules Committee 9 and why someone would suggest to us that we 10 stalled -- that we stalled when here's a bill 11 that was printed seven weeks ago that sat in the 12 Committee that the chairman could have moved out 13 to accomplish this beneficial purpose and it 14 didn't happen today until the Rules Committee. 15 I ask again, who's stalling? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 17 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4430 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an 4 act to amend the Business Corporation Law. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Marchi, an explan... excuse me. 9 Senator Bruno. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we lay that 11 aside, Mr. President? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll lay 13 the bill aside at the request of the Majority 14 Leader. 15 The Secretary will continue to 16 read the controversial - 17 SENATOR BRUNO: I would -- Mr. 18 President, I would like to return to the order 19 of the reading of the Journal. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 21 Senator. Is there any objection to the 22 Journal? 23 SENATOR GOLD: Can you hold it 24 just one half a second? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4431 1 Paterson, did you have an objection to the 2 Journal? 3 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just 4 wanted to hear it, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: It was 6 previously read but I can ask the Secretary to 7 read it again as we have traditionally done. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the Journal then. 12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 13 Wednesday, May 28th. The Senate met pursuant to 14 adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, May 27th, 15 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 16 adjourned. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. I think the 21 point that Senator Paterson was making -- and by 22 the way, before I - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Gold, did you have an objection? 25 SENATOR GOLD: Yes. I have an 4432 1 objection. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You have 3 an objection to the Journal. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, and I would 5 like to state it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I will 7 listen to it. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 9 I would like to preface it by 10 saying, by the way, that I am glad that while we 11 have political work that unfortunately we have 12 to do, I'm glad that our Majority Leader found a 13 way to take care of the needs of White Plains 14 and some of the localities in cooperation with 15 our party. I think it would have been foolish 16 not to do that but, Mr. President, I think the 17 point that Senator Paterson is making is made if 18 we take a look at what is traditional -- when we 19 talk about traditional. 20 We start the session and are 21 asked to approve a Journal. Sometimes -- a lot 22 of times we do that just blindly and yet what 23 happens is after we leave Albany, the Journal is 24 printed and we find out we've approved it and 25 hopefully it's accurate -- and I want to say 4433 1 that lest anybody confuse anything, there is 2 nobody who admires the Journal Clerk of this 3 chamber more than I do, and the problem, Mr. 4 President, is that people of great talent, 5 people of great attentiveness, people who are 6 well meaning still make mistakes sometimes. 7 This particular Journal Clerk works very hard to 8 make sure that doesn't happen and it really 9 doesn't happen, I don't think, but I think our 10 responsibility is such that we should make sure 11 of what it is we are voting about. 12 Now, this is the 29th -- 29th of 13 '97. To give you an idea, we just grabbed one, 14 the 29th of May '95, and it's really very short, 15 Mr. President, but it says "The Senate met 16 pursuant to adjournment, Senator Farley in the 17 Chair upon designation of the Temporary 18 President. The Journal of Sunday, May 28th, 19 '95, was read and approved" but then it says 20 "Introduction: Introduced business. The 21 following bills were introduced, read first and 22 second time, referred to their respective 23 committees. Senate" and then it gives the 24 Senate numbers and there happen to have been 25 three bills that day and it's accounted for. It 4434 1 then says "Senator Bruno moved that the Senate 2 do now adjourn" and the President put the 3 question, the Senate agreed, et cetera, and 4 that, Mr. President, is a Journal. 5 Now, earlier today when the 6 Journal Clerk read the Journal, he read the top 7 few lines and that was done because that's what 8 he was instructed to do. He certainly doesn't 9 take it upon himself not to read the rest of it 10 and many days those of us on this side of the 11 aisle are content to let that go. 12 On the other hand, there are some 13 days when we might decide that we ought to know 14 what is in the Journal. We asked what bills - 15 were there some bills passed and we were told 16 that there were, I think six or eight bills that 17 were passed and upon your instruction, Mr. 18 President -- and we appreciate it -- those bill 19 numbers were given to us. Upon your 20 instruction, we also were given the votes which 21 we also, by the way, appreciate very much and 22 that's where it was. 23 Now, I don't know, Mr. President, 24 from the information we have, whether that is 25 what will be in the Journal that we are voting 4435 1 to approve or whether there is other material 2 that is necessary. 3 For example, when I read to you 4 from May 29th, 1995, I get the impression - 5 although I don't have that good a memory -- I 6 have the impression that perhaps the only two 7 people in the chamber were Senator Farley and 8 Senator Bruno on one of our legislative days. 9 That was a Monday and the reason I say that is 10 on Tuesday, the following day, there is an 11 attendance record which is set forth and we 12 don't have that on Monday. Now, maybe that was 13 Memorial Day Weekend that year, I don't know 14 what happened but apparently nothing much. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold, I -- I am still waiting for the correction 17 -- or the objection that you have to the 18 Journal. 19 SENATOR GOLD: I thought I was 20 explaining. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: And I'm 22 trying to understand and be as easy going with 23 the interpretation of the rules of the house as 24 I can to give you as much latitude to state your 25 point, but I don't sense that you have any 4436 1 corrections to the Journal that was read to 2 make. If you do, I would like to hear them so 3 that we can then take a vote on whether or not 4 those corrections are going to be included in 5 the Journal. 6 So if we could move to that point 7 that you would state your objection to the 8 Journal, or your correction -- it's a synonymous 9 term -- then I would appreciate that so we can 10 move to the vote. 11 SENATOR GOLD: I think that's a 12 fair comment, Mr. President, and as you can see, 13 you have been making these terrific insights all 14 day and I have been agreeing with you, but the 15 only variance I have from what you just said, 16 Mr. President, is that I am still allowed under 17 the rules to explain my objection in my own way 18 and I am sorry that I don't have the economy of 19 words that you have, that method of putting 20 words together succinctly and accurately so that 21 one -- listening to just one or two minute words 22 can grasp huge concepts and, therefore, I have 23 to struggle with what little talent I have been 24 given to try to get the point across - 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: You 4437 1 appear to be in a lot of pain struggling to find 2 that, Senator. 3 SENATOR GOLD: -- in the fewest 4 words I can -- in the fewest words I can that, 5 unfortunately isn't always few. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Could you 7 state your objection, your correction? 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I'm trying 9 to do that. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Okay. 11 SENATOR GOLD: So, Mr. 12 President - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The other 14 thing I should remind you, Senator Gold, is if I 15 find your comments not to be germane to the 16 point that's before us, I will rule you out of 17 order and we will move on. 18 So with that in mind - 19 SENATOR GOLD: It will be the 20 last day you ever get from me on a putting 21 green. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That's 23 right. Would you please state your correction 24 or your objection. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, I am. 4438 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Paterson, did you have a correction to the 4 Journal as it was read? 5 SENATOR PATERSON: No. I just 6 wanted to ask you if you are contemplating 7 ruling any of Senator Gold's remarks not germane 8 to the discussion, I just want to know the basis 9 because I have a feeling that I would want to 10 appeal that ruling, and so I just want you to 11 consider what would be really the parameters of 12 what germaneness is so that I can prepare myself 13 for that inevitable time. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 15 after the session is over, Senator Paterson, you 16 and I will adjourn to the lobby and we'll have 17 that discussion. I'm not prepared to make any 18 predeterminations on any rulings at this point. 19 I would like to hear Senator Gold's objections. 20 If he doesn't have an objection, then I would 21 ask you to sit down and we'll move on in the 22 course of business. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 24 Mr. President, the only objection 25 I would have -- and I will withdraw it as an 4439 1 objection -- is I assume when the Journal is 2 complete for yesterday, we will have things like 3 attendance in it and things like bills that are 4 introduced and having great faith in the Journal 5 Clerk, I will remove any objection and allow it 6 to be - 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Then, 8 without any objection, the Journal stands 9 approved as read. 10 Presentation of petitions. 11 Messages from the Assembly. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of standing committees. 14 Reports of select committees. 15 Communications and reports from 16 state officers. 17 Motions and resolution. 18 The Chair recognizes Senator 19 Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 On behalf of Senator Saland, on 23 page 7, I offer the following amendments to 24 Calendar Number 227, Senate Print Number 1289-A, 25 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 4440 1 Third Reading Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 amendments to Calendar Number 227 are received 4 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 5 the Third Reading Calendar. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 On behalf of Senator Goodman, on 10 page 38, I offer the following amendments to 11 Calendar Number 907, Senate Print Number 5213, 12 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 13 Third Reading Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 amendments to Calendar Number 907 are received 16 and adopted. The bill will retain its place on 17 the Third Reading Calendar. 18 Senator Marcellino. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, Mr. 20 President. On behalf of Senator Libous, please 21 place a sponsor's star on Calendar Number 822. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 23 Number 822 is starred at the request of the 24 sponsor. 25 Senator Skelos, we have a couple 4441 1 of substitutions. Can we take those at this 2 time? Senator Skelos, we have a couple of 3 substitutions at the desk. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the 5 substitutions. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the substitutions. 8 THE SECRETARY: On page 23, 9 Senator Holland moves to discharge from the 10 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 7767 and 11 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 12 Calendar 680. 13 And on page 51, Senator Present 14 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 15 Assembly Bill Number 8067 and substitute it for 16 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1069. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 substitutions are ordered. 19 Senator Skelos, that brings us to 20 the calendar. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 if we could continue with the Rules Committee 23 report, regular order. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will continue with the controversial 4442 1 calendar on the Rules Committee agenda, 2 beginning with Senate Print 4767, Calendar 3 Number 1082, by Senator Marchi. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1082, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4767, an 6 act to amend the Business Corporation Law, in 7 relation to the organization of professional 8 service corporations. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1083, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4790, an 21 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 22 relation to the definition of real property. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4443 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 6 Senator Rath recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1084, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4899, an 11 act to authorize the town of Washington in the 12 county of Dutchess. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 14 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 15 will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1085, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4912, an 4444 1 act to amend the General Business Law, in 2 relation to criminal and monetary sanctions. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect on the first day of 7 November. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1086, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5125, an 16 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 17 increasing the number of and the length of the 18 terms of office. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4445 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1087, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5212, an 6 act to amend Chapter 309 of the Laws of 1996. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1088, by Senator Stachowski, Senate Print 5277, 19 an act to legalize, ratify and confirm the 20 validity of certain actions. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4446 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1089, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5280, an 8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 causing the death of a peace officer. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1090, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5294, an 23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 24 assault of bus drivers. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4447 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1091, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 13 Print 52... 5352, an act providing for the 14 establishment of the New York State Commission. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 Senator Skelos. 4448 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 4 one motion, if we might return to the order of 5 motions and resolutions. 6 The Chair recognizes Senator 7 Maziarz. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 9 on behalf of Senator Stafford, please place a 10 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 904. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 12 Number 904 will be starred at the request of the 13 sponsor. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no 16 further business, I move we adjourn until 17 Monday, June 2nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days 18 to be legislative days. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos, before that, Senator Waldon, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, I 23 apologize to Senator Skelos and to my colleagues 24 but Calendar Number 1082, I was out of the room 25 when that passed the house and that's the bill 4449 1 which will allow attorneys and non-attorneys to 2 enter into agreements to work as attorneys, 3 which is really prohibitive in terms of the 4 concept or philosophy of this state and in this 5 station and, therefore, I respectfully request 6 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 7 negative, and I think my colleagues also ought 8 to look at that. I think we made an egregious 9 error by letting that fly through without taking 10 the necessary action. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 12 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Waldon 13 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 14 Number 1082, Senate Print 4767. 15 Senator Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 with the unanimous consent of the house, I would 18 also like to be recorded in the negative - 19 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: -- on Calendar 21 Number 1082. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 24 Paterson will be recorded in the negative on 25 Calendar Number 1082. 4450 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 once again, this being no further business, I 3 move - 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Connor wishes to be in the negative on Calendar 7 Number 1082. Without objection, Senator Connor 8 will be recorded in the negative. 9 Senator Dollinger. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: May I also be 11 recorded in the negative on 1082. I apologize. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1082. 13 Senator Montgomery. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would like 15 to be in the negative on 1082. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 17 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 18 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 19 Calendar Number 1082. 20 Now, Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Motion to 22 adjourn. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 24 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until 25 Monday, June 2nd - 4451 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Intervening days 2 to be legislative days. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: -- at 4 3:00 p.m., the intervening days to be 5 legislative days. 6 (Whereupon, at 3:08, the Senate 7 adjourned.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18