Tuesday, June 3, 1997

4543 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 3, 1997 10 12:05 p.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4544 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would you please rise and join 4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, June 2nd. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Friday, May 30th, 16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 17 adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 Senator Marcellino. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: On behalf of 4545 1 Senator Marchi, Madam President, please place a 2 sponsor's star on Calendar Number 1041 and, 3 Madam President, on page number 28, I offer the 4 following amendments to Calendar Number 778, 5 Assembly Print Number 7700, and ask that said 6 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 7 Calendar. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 starred. The amendments are received. 10 Thank you. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 13 there will be an immediate meeting of the Energy 14 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 15 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 16 immediate meeting of the Energy Committee in the 17 Majority Conference Room. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could take 20 up the non-controversial calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 177-C, an 25 act to amend the Executive Law and others, in 4546 1 relation - 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 4 the bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 684, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3084, an 7 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 8 relation to spectators. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the first day of 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 729, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 339, an act 22 to amend the Education Law, in relation to drug 23 testing of certain pupils. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Read the last section. 4547 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect in 180 days. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 766, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 1905, an act 11 to amend the Public Health Law, in relation to 12 eliminating review. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 786, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4013, an act 25 to amend the State Finance Law, in relation to 4548 1 eligibility of farm credit system institutions. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 798, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4105, an 14 act to legalize, certify and confirm the acts of 15 the Eastport Union Free School District. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Read the last section. There is a local fiscal 18 impact statement on file. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4549 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 848, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4852, an act 4 to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act, 5 in relation to public hearings. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect on the first day of 10 January. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 870, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5180, an 19 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 20 establishing the crime of absconding. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4550 1 Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 898, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4259-A, an 8 act to amend Chapter 674 of the Laws of 1993. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 12 the bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 903, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4904-A - 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 16 the day at the request of the sponsor. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 18 the bill aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 908, by member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly 21 Print 6160, an act to amend the Parks, 22 Recreation and Historic Preservation Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4551 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 913, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 1965, an 10 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 11 appeals to the state Board of Parole. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 915, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 2779, an 24 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 25 charging taxes on sales of commissaries and 4552 1 canteens. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Call the roll -- I'm sorry. Read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an 15 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 16 requiring inmates to make medical co-payments. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 20 the bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 937, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3423, an 23 act to amend the Family Court Act and the Social 24 Services Law, in relation to notification. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4553 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 3 act shall take effect in 90 days. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 939, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3455, an 12 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation 13 to appointment. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 bill is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 941, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 4857, an 4554 1 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 2 relation to authorizing payment. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 944, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5149, an 15 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 16 relation to orders. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4555 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 945, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5150, an 4 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 5 relation to disinterested persons. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 946, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5164, an 18 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 19 relation to adoption proceedings. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Call the roll. 4556 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 956, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 340, an act 7 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 8 relation to the enforcement of handicapped 9 parking regulations. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 971, by member of the Assembly Connelly, 22 Assembly Print 1124, an act in relation to 23 authorizing the Metropolitan Transportation 24 Authority. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4557 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 977, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2089, an act 12 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 13 relation to exempting. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 16 the bill aside, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 981, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 2694, an 19 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 20 relation to the service charge. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Read the last - 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4558 1 Call the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe there 8 are some substitutions at the desk that need to 9 be made, if we could make them at this time. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 11 Secretary will read the substitutions. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 19, 13 Senator Volker moves to discharge from the 14 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6780 and 15 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 16 Calendar 567. 17 And on page 48, Senator LaValle 18 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 19 Assembly Bill Number 5357 and substitute it for 20 the identical Third Reading Calendar 1095. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 substitutions are made. 23 Continue reading the non 24 controversial calendar. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4559 1 994, by Senator Levy, Senate Print 4387, an act 2 to amend the Public Authorities Law, in relation 3 to emergency contracts. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1030, by member of the Assembly Stringer, 16 Assembly Print 5635, an act to amend the 17 Election Law, in relation to requiring. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Call the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 4560 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1031, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4511-A, 5 an act - 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 8 the bill aside, please. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1043, by Senator Marchi - 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Star the bill at 12 the request of the sponsor. 1041, are we on? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 1041 is what we're on, Senator. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Star it at the 16 request of the sponsor. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 18 bill is starred at the request of the sponsor. 19 I'm sorry. 20 The Secretary will read 1043. 21 1041 was previously starred. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 -- Calendar Number 1043, by Senator Marchi - 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 4561 1 the bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1049, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4061, an 4 act to amend the Waterfront Commission Act, in 5 relation to empowering. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 9 act shall take effect upon enactment into law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Call the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1055, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4431, an 18 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 19 sharing of information. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Call the roll. 4562 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1063, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5124, an 7 act to amend the Banking Law, in relation to 8 prohibited acts by banking institutions. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1069, by the Assembly Committee on Rules - 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 23 the bill aside, please. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1092, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1158, an act 4563 1 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 2 to establishing the Fallsburg-Liberty-Thompson 3 Industrial Development Agency. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 There is a home rule message at the table. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 8 the bill aside, please. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1093, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 2871, 11 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 12 relation to authorizing a residential parking 13 permit system. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 There is a home rule message at the desk. Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4564 1 1094, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3134, an 2 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 3 relation to point systems. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1095, substituted earlier today by member of the 16 Assembly McGee, Assembly Print 5357, an act to 17 amend the Town Law, in relation to the 18 compensation of election inspectors. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Call the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4565 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1096, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 3814, an 6 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 7 assault with a noxious material against a police 8 officer. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the first day of 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1097, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 4680, an 22 act authorizing the assessor of the county of 23 Nassau to accept an application. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Read the last section. 4566 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1098, by the Senate Committee on Rules - 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 12 temporarily. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 14 the bill aside temporarily. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1099, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4901, an 17 act relating to providing a lump sum payment in 18 lieu of future payments. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Call the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4567 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1100, by Senator Tully - 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay the bill 7 aside for the day at the request of the sponsor. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 9 the bill aside for the day at the request of the 10 sponsor. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1101, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5110-A, an 13 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 14 permitting the Division of Human Rights. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Call the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4568 1 1102, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5118, an 2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 3 prohibiting state agencies. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1103, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5261, an 16 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 17 relation to the maximum speed limit. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Read the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Call the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 4569 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1104, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5311, an 5 act to amend Chapter 668 of the Laws of 1977, 6 amending the Volunteer Firefighters Benefit Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Skelos, that concludes 18 the non-controversial calendar. 19 What is your pleasure, sir? 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 the session has gone so smoothly, I think we're 23 going to pray twice. We had a moment of silence 24 and now the Reverend is with us and perhaps we 25 could have another prayer. 4570 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: If 2 we could give our attention to Pastor Troy 3 Bronner of the Calvary Baptist Church of 4 Buffalo. 5 Reverend. 6 PASTOR TROY BRONNER: Greetings. 7 Let us pray together. We are grateful and 8 thankful for this opportunity for the church and 9 state to be together. We're thankful for the 10 men and women who make clear decisions for us, 11 God, and we pray that You will give them a heart 12 for our people, for our state and for the 13 decisions that will affect all of us. 14 We pray that Your atmosphere will 15 always be in this place and that You will guide 16 them and lead them and protect them. We pray 17 for their families as they are away from them. 18 We pray for their districts. We pray for our 19 governor. We pray for our state. We pray for 20 the changes that are about to come into our 21 community and we pray that Your presence will 22 help us and guide us and direct us. 23 We thank You for this time. We 24 ask that You will always seal this as an event 25 that You will give glory from and honor from. 4571 1 It's in the name of our Savior that we pray. 2 All of us are saying Amen. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 7 immediate meeting of the Aging Committee in the 8 Majority Conference Room. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 There will be an immediate meeting of the Aging 11 Committee in Room 332, the Majority Conference 12 Room. The Aging Committee will meet immediately 13 in Room 332, the Majority Conference Room. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: For planning 15 purposes, to let the members know, there will be 16 a meeting of the Children and Families 17 Committee, the Transportation Committee and the 18 Rules Committee as we go through the 19 controversial calendar. 20 Mr. President, if we could start 21 the controversial calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: On page 12, 25 Calendar Number 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate 4572 1 Print 177-C, an act to amend the Executive Law 2 and others, in relation to treatment of sex 3 offenders. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 5 please. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 7 temporarily. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 9 the bill aside temporarily. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 898, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4259-A, an 12 act to amend Chapter 674 of the Laws of 1993. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Senator Goodman, an explanation has been asked 17 by Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes, Mr. 19 President. The purpose of this bill is to 20 retain the maximum value limitation of $200,000 21 for emergency construction contracts authorized 22 to be let by the Commissioner of General 23 Services until June 30th, 1999. 24 I'm not sure that I have the 25 attention of the questioner but when I do, I 4573 1 will be glad to -- maybe it's -- Senator, I 2 don't know if this is something you wish to be 3 personally apprised of but, if you are, I would 4 be happy to wait until you conclude your 5 business. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, 7 Senator. 8 SENATOR GOODMAN: Would you like 9 me to proceed with my explanation? I would be 10 happy to do so. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Please do. 12 SENATOR GOODMAN: Thank you. 13 Sir, as I was saying, this 14 relates to the value of limitations of $200,000 15 for emergency construction contracts and the 16 existing -- under existing law, Public Buildings 17 Law, Section 9, this authorizes the Commissioner 18 of General Services to let contracts in value 19 not exceeding $200,000 to respond to 20 construction emergencies involving a pressing 21 necessity for immediate repair, reconstruction 22 or maintenance to protect persons or property 23 and to permit safe continuation of the public 24 use or function. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4574 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 3 Dollinger had a pertinent question on this and 4 he may -- he may vote on it when he gets back 5 later as one of the colleagues has just - 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Let 9 the record show if Senator Dollinger was in the 10 room, we would have heard his question. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an 22 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 23 requiring inmates. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 4575 1 temporarily. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 3 it aside temporarily. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 977, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2089, an act 6 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 7 relation to exempting any child. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 9 please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Senator Kuhl, an explanation has been asked by 12 Senator Paterson. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Paterson, 14 this is a bill that we took up last year and we 15 had a -- not a significant but a debate on the 16 issue, actually on two days. It's a very one 17 issue-oriented bill. 18 Several years ago we passed a 19 bill that became law in this state which would 20 require the riders of bicycles under the age of 21 14 years to wear safety-approved helmets. That 22 bill which eventually became the law created a 23 problem to some of my constituents who are in 24 two groups. 25 There's one group called -- the 4576 1 practice of religion and are called Mennonites 2 and there's another group that we refer to as 3 the Amish. Both of these groups are required - 4 and have done so for at least four centuries, 5 required to wear a covering. The males wear a 6 wide brimmed hat and the females wear bonnets. 7 By requiring them to wear safety 8 helmets, we are forcing them to abandon what is 9 accepted and required in the practice of their 10 religion and so if they do comply with the law 11 currently, they abandon their religion. If they 12 maintain their religious tenets and wear the 13 hats or the bonnets, then we force them into 14 criminal status. 15 So this is a proposal which would 16 exempt them from being required to wear helmets. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 If Senator Kuhl would yield for a 22 question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator Kuhl, do you yield to Senator Paterson? 25 SENATOR KUHL: Yes. 4577 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Kuhl yields, sir. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 4 Senator. 5 I remember this bill from last 6 year. I remember considerable discussion 7 between yourself and myself and also Senator 8 Lachman on the issue and there's, I think, a 9 Minnesota Supreme Court case that speaks to this 10 particular issue. 11 My question is -- the concern 12 that we raised then was just for safety in the 13 areas around the state that are not particular 14 to this specific area where I think the merit of 15 your bill is quite well taken. 16 Have you made any changes to the 17 legislation since last year? 18 SENATOR KUHL: None. The bill is 19 exactly as it was presented to you last year. 20 You may remember, Senator 21 Paterson, that Senator Lachman and I had a 22 discussion about some potential changes. He had 23 some recommendations. I laid the bill aside 24 after we first brought it up. We talked about 25 those and he and I agreed that those -- what he 4578 1 was proposing for various reasons were not 2 acceptable and so we came back to the original 3 bill, brought it forward and it was supported by 4 57 members, I believe, of this body. Only two 5 people voted in the negative and Senator Lachman 6 and I have discussed this earlier before it has 7 come to the floor today. He questioned whether 8 the bill was exactly the same. I told him it 9 was and he indicated to me that he was going to 10 be supporting the bill again this year. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 12 much, Senator, and thank you for allowing us to 13 discuss that bill with you in the interim 14 period, and I know it took a little longer to 15 get through but we're satisfied with your 16 answers. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Senator 19 Paterson. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Read the last section, please. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Hold on one second. 4579 1 Senator Lachman, do you wish to 2 be heard on this bill? 3 Senator Lachman. 4 SENATOR LACHMAN: Mr. Chairman, I 5 just want to reiterate what I had mentioned last 6 year on this bill. It deals with what I believe 7 is a First Amendment right, religious freedom. 8 The bill had been a controversial 9 bill because it also deals, quite candidly, with 10 security and safety but in my eyes when there is 11 a conflict between the First Amendment and 12 America's great contribution to the world of 13 separation of church and state and where there 14 is a conflict between that and almost anything 15 else, I will stand with the First Amendment. 16 This involves, I believe 1,000 17 members of an old Mennonite denomination. I 18 don't even believe they go to vote. So Senator 19 Kuhl has nothing to gain from this, and I 20 commend him for upholding the First Amendment 21 and, as I said, our great contribution to world 22 religion are separation of church and state, and 23 since I believe that old Mennonites are careful 24 in what they do in all aspects of their life, I 25 don't foresee any safety or security problems, 4580 1 and I stand with the distinguished Senator from 2 upstate New York. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Is 5 there any other Senator wishing to be heard? 6 (There was no response.) 7 Read the last section. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Section 2. This act shall take effect 10 immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Announce the results. There is - 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53, nays 1, 17 Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Senator Volker. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 22 immediate meeting of the Child and Families 23 Committee in Room -- the Majority Conference 24 Room, Room 332, 332, the Child and Families 25 Committee. 4581 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 2 Children and Families Committee will meet in 3 Room 332 immediately. 4 The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1031, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4511-A, 7 an act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 8 commencement of proceedings. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Senator Present, Senator Paterson has again 12 asked for an explanation. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 This bill is an attempt to clear 16 up what has become a real problem when there's a 17 challenge to a person's name being on the ballot 18 and it would provide that the court try and have 19 that hearing at least 15 days prior to the 20 election so that the Board of Elections can 21 prepare their ballots for the machines and also 22 get out their absentee ballots. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Excuse me, Senator Present. 25 Ladies and gentlemen, it's 4582 1 getting a bit noisy in here. If we could take 2 our conversations out of the chamber so we can 3 hear the explanation of the bill. 4 Thank you, Senator Present. I'm 5 sorry for the interruption. 6 SENATOR PRESENT: I think I've 7 finished. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senator Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 11 if Senator Present would yield for just a 12 moment. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 15 Senator yields, Senator. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, what 17 is the current process? 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Pardon? 19 SENATOR PATERSON: What is the 20 current process with respect to names on the 21 ballot? 22 SENATOR PRESENT: I think the 23 current process is when such an action is 24 brought in court, the judge doesn't necessarily 25 rush it to get it done and it may -- the 4583 1 determination may come a day before election or 2 hours even. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Read the last section, please, somebody. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1043, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3584, an 17 act to amend the Business Corporation Law. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Marchi, an explanation has been asked 21 for by Senator Gold. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Mr. 23 President. This would -- well, under existing 24 law, a corporation does not allow an addressee 25 for service of process to resign unilaterally 4584 1 and this would give that permission provided 2 that they have served notice to the -- the 3 corporation and the failure of the corporation 4 to fill this void or to carry out that function 5 would -- could lead to the suspension of the 6 corporation. 7 A person may involuntarily, 8 either by design or just caprice, be established 9 as the recipient of process when, in fact, they 10 -- there is an expressed desire on their part 11 not to be a -- not to be -- to cease being an 12 addressee. 13 So it seems like an equitable 14 arrangement and discipline of the corporation if 15 they don't cooperate in providing a replacement 16 for the addressee. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Gold, on the bill. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Senator Marchi, I 23 think it is a very good idea and that's why I 24 thought of it and that's why I introduced the 25 legislation, and I don't know why after it was 4585 1 introduced by me there was a necessity to have 2 it reprinted but other than to say, Senator 3 Marchi, that you and I know each other for a day 4 or two at least and over the course of the 5 years, as I've always stated, you are an 6 individual whose sense of fairness and equity 7 has never been interfered with by ego. So I can 8 only attribute what has happened with this bill 9 to staff people who confused their ideas of what 10 the legislative process should be. 11 My bill was reported to the 12 calendar and obviously the politics of this 13 house has your bill being considered, but I do 14 think that it was a waste of money. I think it 15 was unfortunate that someone on your staff -- or 16 somebody's staff decided that the sponsorship of 17 the bill was more important than the issue. So 18 here we are today. 19 I'm going to support the bill and 20 that's why I introduced it, and I want the 21 record clear, Senator, that in my opinion, you 22 are the ultimate gentleman and whatever happened 23 with this bill certainly was not a Marchi doing, 24 as far as I'm concerned. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President. 4586 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Marchi. 3 SENATOR MARCHI: This was a 4 Secretary of State bill, that's a program bill. 5 Nevertheless, I have to acknowledge that if you 6 preceded me in time, I publicly apologize to 7 you. It was not by design. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, I 9 won't accept an apology from you because you did 10 nothing wrong. You don't have the capacity to 11 do something wrong, as far as I'm concerned, but 12 I think that there are circumstances some time 13 which are foolish and time wasting, but I'm glad 14 we're passing the bill. That's the most 15 important thing. 16 SENATOR MARCHI: But we rejoice 17 in that, and I would like to -- no one on my 18 staff was trying to, you know - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 would Senator Gold yield for a question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator Gold, I believe would probably yield to 25 you, sir. 4587 1 SENATOR GOLD: If it's easy. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, 3 assuming that you support this bill and don't 4 try to take it, I would like to propose a 5 legislative piracy bill that would make it a 6 misdemeanor to in any way copy any legislation 7 or information -- change the name -- kind of a 8 plagiarism. 9 SENATOR GOLD: I didn't hear a 10 question. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Can 12 we read the last section on that bill. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 14 act shall take effect in 90 days. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 20 bill has passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1069, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Print 8067, an act to enact the Private 24 Activity Bond Act of 1997. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4588 1 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 3 this bill was laid aside at the request of 4 Senator Leichter who asked for a day on it. I 5 would be interested in finding out if Senator 6 Present would yield, whether or not Senator 7 Leichter has spoken to him or whether or not he 8 would like to give him a day on this bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Present. 11 SENATOR PRESENT: I - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Excuse me, Senator. Before you start, ladies 14 and gentlemen, once again, can we just keep it a 15 little down? Thank you. 16 Senator Present. 17 SENATOR PRESENT: I think the 18 question was, have I spoken to Senator 19 Leichter? Yes, and other staff people have. I 20 think that he's satisfied, but one never knows. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 22 think the response is, Senator, one never 23 knows. 24 SENATOR PRESENT: I think Senator 25 Leichter asked the question whether or not the 4589 1 Public Authorities Law requires that the Public 2 Authorities Control Board still has to approve 3 and look at all of these loans and this bill 4 that's before us makes no changes in that. 5 Senator Leichter has been so 6 informed. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 8 Senator Present. 9 I have just been informed that 10 Senator Leichter is okay with the bill. So 11 let's read the last section and pass it quickly 12 before he changes his mind. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: At 14 the request of Senator Paterson, read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 bill is passed quickly. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1092, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 1158, an act 4590 1 to amend the General Municipal Law, in relation 2 to establishing the Fallsburg-Liberty-Thompson 3 Industrial Development Agency. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Read the last section on that. There is a home 6 rule message on that bill. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1098, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 17 Print 4799, an act to amend Chapter 272 of the 18 Laws of 1991. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 20 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Is there a home 24 rule message at the desk on 1098? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4591 1 There is not, and I'm informed that one is not 2 required under the rules, Senator. 3 SENATOR SPANO: Can we lay the 4 bill aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Lay 6 the bill aside. 7 Senator Volker, we've finished 8 those bills that we can. That brings us back to 9 those that were laid aside temporarily. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 11 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Yes, we do, Senator. We have housekeeping and a 14 couple of amendments. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Why don't you do 16 it now. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: We 18 shall do just that. 19 The Chair recognizes Senator 20 Maziarz. 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. 23 Mr. President, on page number 52, 24 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 25 Number 843, Senate Print Number 2760 and ask 4592 1 that that bill retain its place on the Third 2 Reading Calendar and also to remove the 3 sponsor's star. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 5 sponsor's star will be removed and the bill will 6 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 8 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 47, 9 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 10 Number 1061, Senate Print Number 3755, and ask 11 that said bill retain its place on the Third 12 Reading Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 14 amendments are received and accepted and the 15 bill will retain its place on the Third Reading 16 Calendar. 17 Senator Maziarz. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 19 on behalf of Senator Farley, on page number 24, 20 I offer the following amendments to Calendar 21 Number 689, Senate Print Number 3803, and ask 22 that said bill retain its place on the Third 23 Reading Calendar. 24 THE SECRETARY: The amendments 25 are received and accepted and the bill will 4593 1 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room and 6 the Senate will stand at ease. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 8 Rules Committee will meet immediately in the 9 Senate Majority Conference Room 332. Meeting of 10 the Rules Committee in Room 332 immediately. In 11 the interim, the Senate will stand in recess - 12 or at ease or whatever. 13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 14 ease from 12:46 p.m. until 1:14 p.m.) 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 there will be an immediate meeting of the 17 Transportation Committee in the Majority 18 Conference Room. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 There will be an immediate meeting of the 21 Transportation Committee in the Majority 22 Conference Room. Transportation Committee will 23 meet immediately in the Majority Conference 24 Room, Room 332. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4594 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 4 return to reports of standing committees. If we 5 could have some order first. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 7 Senate will come to order. Can we take the 8 conversations out of the room. Staff find your 9 seats. Members find your seats. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 12 return to reports of standing committees, I 13 believe there's a report of the Finance 14 Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 18 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 19 following nomination: Member of the Workers' 20 Compensation Board, Frank J. Ryan, Esq., of 21 Mohegan. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the 25 nomination, and if you would please recognize 4595 1 Senator Spano. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 3 Chair recognizes Senator Spano on the 4 nomination. 5 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 It's my pleasure to second the 8 nomination of Frank Ryan as a member of the 9 Workers' Comp' Board. 10 Frank Ryan has a distinguished 11 career and has served as the town attorney in 12 the town of Cortlandt. He started his career 13 back in 1971 as the assistant legal counsel to 14 the late Senator Bernard Gordon. 15 He has appeared before the Labor 16 Committee and has demonstrated his desire to be 17 part of a great team under the chairmanship of 18 Bob Snashall in the Workers' Compensation Board. 19 Frank Ryan has shown that he's 20 got the knowledge as an attorney and the 21 background in business to be a great member of 22 that team and it's my pleasure to move his 23 nomination, the nomination of Frank Ryan as a 24 member of the Workers' Compensation Board today. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4596 1 question is on the nomination of Frank J. Ryan, 2 Esq., of Mohegan, for a term to expire December 3 31st, 2003 on the Workmen's Compensation Board. 4 All in favor signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye".) 6 All opposed, nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Mr. Ryan is unanimously 9 recommended and we congratulate -- Mr. Ryan is 10 in the audience with us and joined with his wife 11 Peg. Congratulations, Mr. Ryan. 12 (Applause) 13 If we can go on. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: The nominee is 15 confirmed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 17 nominee is confirmed. That's the right way to 18 say it. 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 21 could I have unanimous consideration to be 22 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 977. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So 24 ordered. 25 Can we move the next nomination. 4597 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 3 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 4 following nomination: Member of the state Board 5 of Parole, Ileana Rodriguez, Ph.D., of Yonkers. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the 7 nomination. Recognize Senator Spano. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senator Spano. 10 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 It is again my pleasure to 13 recognize another outstanding person from 14 Westchester, particularly the city of Yonkers, 15 who the Governor has appointed to the state 16 Board of Parole and to second the nomination of 17 Dr. Ileana Rodriguez. 18 Dr. Rodriguez has got a record 19 that goes back a long time in several pages in 20 terms of her qualifications to deal with the 21 difficult issues facing the Parole Board. 22 She's uniquely qualified where 23 she would be able to place her clinical skills 24 as a consulting psychiatrist -- psychologist to 25 work on the major decisions that she will be 4598 1 making as a part of that Board of Parole. 2 As a psychologist with the 3 Westchester County Department of Mental Health, 4 she has shown over the years that she's got the 5 type of sensitivity that is really necessary to 6 be a real good solid working member of that 7 Parole Board, and I'm also very proud to support 8 someone who has the -- those type of clinical 9 skills and particularly in the area of mental 10 health, there have been -- there are a number of 11 issues that Dr. Rodriguez has worked on in the 12 area of teen suicide and adolescent suicide that 13 really demonstrates her level of commitment to 14 our community. 15 So it's my pleasure to second the 16 nomination, to move the nomination of Dr. Ileana 17 Rodriguez as a member of the state Board of 18 Parole. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 20 motion is on the nomination of Ileana Rodriguez 21 of Yonkers for a term - 22 Senator Oppenheimer. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I just want 24 to also second the nomination to the state Board 25 of Parole. We are so thrilled to see a woman 4599 1 and a member of a minority group rising to this 2 distinction with the kind of qualifications and 3 personality that would make her superb on this 4 board. You will do us very proud. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 6 Chair recognizes Senator Nozzolio, on the 7 nomination. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. 10 Mr. President, as Chairman of the 11 Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections Committee, 12 the Committee met and reviewed the qualifica 13 tions of the nominee, and I am here to report 14 was extremely impressed with those qualifica 15 tions, background, experience and more 16 importantly, energy and enthusiasm that was 17 apparent to each member of the Committee that 18 the nominee will bring to this very important 19 responsibility. 20 Governor Pataki has put together 21 a terrific team in many areas of the state 22 government, but I'm very pleased to note 23 particularly the efforts of the Commission on 24 Parole, that we have seen the Governor's 25 nomination after nomination, very, very good, 4600 1 qualified individuals who are doing a tremendous 2 job at the front lines of the criminal justice 3 system. 4 I wish to congratulate Governor 5 Pataki on this nomination, and that I certainly 6 believe that we have a very qualified and 7 quality person before us for this 8 responsibility. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Thank you, Senator. 12 The question is on the 13 confirmation of Ileana Rodriguez as a member of 14 the state Board of Parole. All in favor signify 15 by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Ileana Rodriguez is hereby 20 confirmed as a member of the state Board of 21 Parole. 22 Congratulations, Ms. Rodriguez, 23 and we note that you are joined with your 24 husband George. Congratulations once again. 25 (Applause) 4601 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 3 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 4 following nomination: Banking member of the 5 State Banking Board, Burkhard Frankenberger, of 6 Rye. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move the 8 nomination. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 10 question is on the confirmation of Burkhard 11 Frankenberger as a member of the Banking Board 12 of the state of New York. All in favor signify 13 by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye".) 15 All opposed, nay. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Burkhard Frankenberger is hereby 18 confirmed as a member of the board. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 21 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 22 following nomination: Member of the Small 23 Business Advisory Board, Margery Keskin, of 24 Jamesville. 25 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 4602 1 nomination. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 3 question is on the nomination of Margaret 4 Keskin, of Jamesville, as a member of the Small 5 Business Advisory Council. All in favor signify 6 by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 Ms. Frankenberger is hereby -- is 11 confirmed. 12 The Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 14 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 15 following nomination: Director of the state of 16 New York Mortgage Agency, Steven E. Snyder, of 17 Fleetwood. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 19 nomination. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 21 question is on the nomination of Steven E. 22 Snyder for a term -- of the state of New York 23 Mortgage Agency. All in favor signify by saying 24 aye. 25 (Response of "Aye".) 4603 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Mr. Frank... Mr. Snyder is 4 confirmed. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 7 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 8 following nomination: Member of the Dormitory 9 Authority, Thomas J. Murphy, of Latham. 10 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 11 nomination. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 13 motion is on the nomination of Thomas J. Murphy 14 to the Dormitory Authority. All in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye".) 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Mr. Murphy is confirmed. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 23 following nomination: Member of the Genesee 24 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation 25 Commission, Carlton W. Seaburg, of LeRoy. 4604 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 2 nomination. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4 motion is on the nomination of Carlton W. 5 Seaburg as a member of the Genesee State Park, 6 Recreation and Historic Preservation 7 Commission. All in favor signify by saying 8 aye. 9 (Response of "Aye".) 10 Opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 Mr. Seaburg is confirmed. 13 The Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 15 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 16 following nomination: Member of the Taconic 17 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation 18 Committee, Jack Gaffney, of Cortlandt Manor. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 20 question is on the nomination of Jack Gaffney as 21 a member of the Taconic State Park, Recreation 22 and Historic Preservation Commission. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 24 nomination. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 4605 1 nomination is moved. The question on the 2 nomination -- all in favor signify by saying 3 aye. 4 (Response of "Aye".) 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Mr. Gaffney is confirmed. 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 10 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 11 following nominations: Members of the Advisory 12 Council on Alcoholism and Substance Abuse 13 Services, Wayne Creelman, M.D., of Buffalo; Paul 14 Curtin, of Syracuse; T.J. Elliott, of Tarrytown; 15 Arthur M. Johnson, of Saranac Lake; Stephen P. 16 Lyman, of Watertown; Ira J. Marion, of 17 Hartsdale; Jeanne M. Unger, of Oswego and 18 Veronica Uss, of Livingston Manor. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 20 nomination. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 22 nominations of the aforeread names for members 23 of the Advisory Council on Alcoholism and 24 Substance Abuse Services, all in favor signify 25 by saying aye. 4606 1 (Response of "Aye".) 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (There was no response.) 4 The members are confirmed. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 7 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 8 following nominations: Members of the New York 9 State Hospital Review and Planning Council, 10 Bruce G. Blower, of Huntington Station; Craig A. 11 Duncan, of Averill Park; John C. Federspiel, of 12 Croton-on-Hudson; Joel A. Maten, of Buffalo; 13 Barry Bruce Perlman, M.D., of New York City and 14 Jane Rees, of Rome. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 16 motion is on the nomination of the names that 17 were read as members of the New York State 18 Hospital Review and Planning Council. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 20 nomination. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All 22 in favor signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye".) 24 Opposed, nay. 25 (There was no response.) 4607 1 The members are confirmed. 2 The Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 4 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 5 following nomination: Member of the State Fire 6 Prevention and Building Code Council, John H. 7 Flanigan, of Slingerlands. 8 SENATOR LARKIN: Move the 9 nomination. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 11 motion is on the nomination of John H. Flanigan 12 as a member of the State Fire Prevention and 13 Building Code Council. All in favor signify by 14 saying aye. 15 (Response of "Aye".) 16 Opposed, nay. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Mr. Flanigan is confirmed. 19 Senator Larkin. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 21 may we please now adopt the Resolution Calendar. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 23 motion is on the adoption of the Resolution 24 Calendar. All in favor signify by saying aye. 25 (Response of "Aye".) 4608 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (There was no response.) 3 The calendar is adopted. 4 Senator Breslin. 5 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. 7 I stand and request to offer that 8 the resolution celebrating the 200th Anniversary 9 of Albany as the state Capitol, which is JL1596, 10 I invite all the members of the Senate to appear 11 as sponsors on that resolution. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: At 13 the request of the sponsor, all members will be 14 placed unless the Chair is otherwise notified. 15 Senator Wright. 16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 With regards to resolution J1585, 19 whereby the Senate is recognizing the Small 20 Business Administration award winners, I would 21 ask that that be open to all members of the 22 Senate also. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: As 24 is our tradition, anyone who wishes not to be on 25 the resolution, please notify the desk, 4609 1 otherwise all members will be placed on 2 Resolution J1585. 3 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 You're welcome, Senator. 7 Senator Paterson, why do you 8 rise? 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 10 Resolution Number -- Calendar Number 1607, which 11 is a resolution commemorating the National 12 Puerto Rican Day Parade will be on June 8th and 13 recognizing that June 2nd to June 8th will be 14 Puerto Rican Week was sponsored and passed this 15 house by Senator Connor, the Minority Leader and 16 the Chair of the Conference, Senator Mendez and 17 at this time we would like to open that 18 resolution up so that all members might be 19 sponsors, if they choose. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 21 same rules will apply. Anyone wishing not to be 22 on Resolution 1607, please notify the desk, 23 otherwise all names will be placed on the 24 resolution. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator Smith 4610 1 asked me to also emphasize especially those who 2 have Puerto Rican heritage and particularly 3 those who would like to. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator Larkin. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Can we now 7 return to the controversial calendar and we'll 8 start with Calendar Number 377. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 10 Secretary will read Calendar Number 377 11 previously laid aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 12, 13 Calendar Number 377, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate 14 Print 177-C, an act to amend the Executive Law 15 and others, in relation to treatment of sex 16 offenders. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Nozzolio, an explanation has been 21 requested by Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 23 in the United States, 1.3 women are raped every 24 minute of every day. One out of three American 25 women will be sexually assaulted in her 4611 1 lifetime. That -- it's been stated that once a 2 sex offender always a sex offender and this 3 measure before us today establishes lifetime 4 parole for sex offenders and requires them to 5 receive treatment after they're released from 6 incarceration. This legislation does eliminate 7 good time behavior for sex offenders. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 11 -- I'm 11 sorry. 12 Senator Waldon wanted to speak. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 14 President. 15 Would the gentleman yield for a 16 question or two? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield? 19 Senator Waldon, he yields. 20 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 21 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator 22 Nozzolio. 23 Senator, this is for sex 24 offenders, as I understand it, and would that 25 include, for example, someone who is the parent 4612 1 of the child involved? 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Anyone 3 convicted of a crime, Senator, would be subject 4 to this act and the enumerated offenses are 5 specified under Section 130 of the Penal Law. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 7 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 13 yields, Senator. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Just to help me 15 understand what you're attempting to do, 16 Senator, would this include those acts related 17 to a sex offense; for example, unlawful 18 imprisonment with a subsequent sex offense, 19 kidnapping with a subsequent sex offense? What 20 would happen if the sex offense doesn't stand up 21 but the other crime does stand up? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we're 23 basing this provision in law upon a conviction 24 or a conviction of an attempt to commit any of 25 the enumerated crimes listed in Sections 130.35, 4613 1 130.50, 130.65, 130.67, 130.70, 130.75 and 2 130.80 of the New York State Penal Law or the 3 conviction of an offense of the law in any other 4 jurisdiction which includes the essential 5 elements of these felonies provided here. So 6 that we are broadening it to that degree. If 7 someone's committed a similar crime in another 8 jurisdiction, comes to New York and commits the 9 same crime, that would be subjected to those 10 same types of review. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 12 would the gentleman yield to another question or 13 two? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator, do you yield? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 19 yields. 20 SENATOR WALDON: I noticed, 21 Senator -- and I thank you for responding so 22 quickly to my questions, but I noticed just now 23 you said felony. This would not include then 24 adultery, which is not a felony under the New 25 York statute, is that correct? 4614 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, those 2 are the enumerated offenses. I listed the 3 sections of the Penal Code. You're welcome to 4 review the enumerated crimes therein. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I didn't 6 understand what the gentleman said, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Would the Senator yield to another question? 10 The Senator would like a clarification of your 11 answer. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we've 13 enumerated the sections of offenses. Under the 14 sections I mentioned, the crime you mentioned 15 and the crime you asked about is not in those 16 sections. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 May the gentleman -- may I 20 continue, Mr. President, if the gentleman would 21 yield to another question or two. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do 23 you yield, Senator? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 25 President. 4615 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, what 4 proviso is being made in your proposal for the 5 incarceration of these people? Where will that 6 money come from to incarcerate these people who 7 will be imprisoned and subsequently released and 8 where will the money come for their treatment 9 modality? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I'm 11 surprised you're asking such a question. The 12 incarceration of a criminal comes from -- as you 13 well know, Senator, comes from the budget that 14 we appropriate each year for the Corrections 15 Department, the Division of Parole and all other 16 criminal justice services in the state. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 18 gentleman yield again, Mr. President? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Does the Senator yield to another question? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 24 yields, Senator. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 4616 1 President. 2 Senator Nozzolio, to be very 3 specific, the type of treatment that those who 4 are sex offenders require -- and I have been 5 down to, for example, Green Haven. I have been 6 to other prisons but that particular prison, if 7 I remember correctly, had a component that dealt 8 primarily with sex offenders. They require not 9 necessarily specialized treatment but perhaps it 10 is because you need psychosocial support systems 11 or at least some intervention by psychosocial 12 workers that other prisoners may not require. 13 Where is that money coming from? Is that also 14 from the budget? 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 16 President, and let me explain just a few tenets 17 that led us to this point, Senator. 18 We recognize, very clearly, that 19 there are some programs in prison today dealing 20 with sex offenders. Frankly, as I look at those 21 programs myself -- and I visited the same place 22 as you have and maybe one or two more upstate - 23 that, in fact, those programs are anemic at 24 best. They, in effect, brand the prisoners 25 participating in those programs so that clearly 4617 1 they become -- the participants in the programs, 2 the sex offenders, in fact, as you well know 3 prison life, become targets in prison 4 themselves. Certainly a counterproductive 5 result that was never intended to see through 6 the establishment of the rehabilitative programs 7 in the first place. 8 To take it another step, once an 9 individual leaves incarceration -- and that's 10 what we're talking about here in the bill before 11 us -- to set up a mechanism that continues the 12 supervision of that individual, that it almost 13 becomes an addiction, in a sense, like drugs or 14 alcohol, this type of criminality that does 15 require and it's proven that the recidivism rate 16 for those convicted of these crimes is far in 17 excess of any other criminality. 18 So what we're focusing on is the 19 sex offender in saying that we understand that 20 there are many mental aspects to this crime, 21 mental disease aspects to this crime, that we 22 also understand that the recidivism rate is so 23 high, that we're saying that it's worth the 24 money to expend into parole for a lifetime 25 parole supervisor to review the constant -- and 4618 1 monitor the constant rehabilitation efforts of 2 sex offenders in an effort to stop that 3 recidivism rate or significantly reduce the 4 recidivism rate. 5 So that's our tenets, Senator, 6 and that's what we're focused on here in this 7 legislation. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 9 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Senator, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 15 does. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, have 17 you done any cost studies as to what it would 18 cost not only per sex offender that we know of 19 now but those who are anticipated to reflect 20 themselves in our system and who will live to be 21 older persons? 22 I did make a visit to a prison 23 downstate and when they wheeled in in 24 wheelchairs and on beds the seniors who were in 25 their 80s and 90s, I was overwhelmed by how long 4619 1 some of the people are living in our prisons who 2 are still in prison. 3 Are we prepared today to hear 4 from you the information as to what the cost 5 factor will be for monitoring these persons for 6 the remainder of their lives while they're 7 outside the prisons? Have we done any studies 8 in that regard? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, we do 10 not have the demographics before you to tell you 11 the exact costs. However, just you add up the 12 math. One person in prison costs what, $20,000 13 a year to keep them in prison? We pay parole 14 officers maybe twice that amount. So if you - 15 per year. So if you could keep-- for every two 16 you keep out of prison each year through this 17 review, you're more than paying for a parole 18 officer to supervise their daily lives. 19 The cost, I believe will be more 20 than paid for. This will be a revenue neutral, 21 if not a cost saver for the state by having this 22 type of review, the money that we're going to be 23 saving in terms of the cost of incarceration and 24 recidivists. Just think, we're talking a 25 recidivism rate in the 70 range down. Those - 4620 1 70 percent of those who commit the crime, sent 2 to prison are going to come back and commit the 3 same crime. If we could reduce that recidivism 4 rate, we'll reduce the costs of incarceration, 5 and sure, it's going to cost us a little more 6 for parole, but I think it's going to be a saver 7 in the long run. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 9 gentleman yield again, Mr. President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Does the Senator yield to another question? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: . 15 He yields, Senator. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 17 President. 18 I appreciate your patience, 19 Senator Nozzolio. I really do. I understand 20 from your proposal that if someone at age 90 21 committed an infraction, which would be a 22 technical violation, that that person would have 23 to summarily be returned to prison despite the 24 age factor. Is that accurate? 25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: In response, 4621 1 Senator, I hope you're not saying rape is a 2 technical violation of the Penal Law. 3 SENATOR WALDON: No. I didn't 4 say that at all. 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I hope you're 6 not inferring that at all. We're talking about, 7 Senator Waldon, very serious criminality here, 8 rape, criminality against children, very severe 9 crimes and they're not technical. They're not 10 something you can sweep aside. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 12 if the gentleman would suffer an interruption. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Can 14 we let the gentleman finish the answer to the 15 question asked. 16 SENATOR WALDON: I think he's 17 completed. Would the gentleman yield again? 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm completed, 19 yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 21 will continue to yield, Senator. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 Senator Nozzolio, with all due 25 respect and with great apology, I never intended 4622 1 for you to interpret what I said as meaning that 2 the crimes enumerated as sex offense crimes are 3 technical, though they are by letter of the law, 4 but that they are not heinous, that they are not 5 violent, that they are not something that we 6 should as a society wish to suppress. 7 The scenario I was orchestrating, 8 obviously inappropriately and without proper 9 illustration -- because you did not respond as I 10 thought you would -- was that if someone who has 11 been a sex offender, a violent sex offender and 12 is now on this lifetime parole passage that 13 you're orchestrating for us, happens to commit 14 an offense that would trigger them returning to 15 jail, you're not telling me that the only 16 offense from your proposal would trigger their 17 return to prison would be another sex offense, 18 and I said someone who's 90 years of age commits 19 a misdemeanor, jaywalks, an offense or whatever, 20 would that person -- would that person then 21 return immediately to prison? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 23 in response to the Senator's question, Senator, 24 I'm sure you're aware of the parole revocation 25 process. That is a process that requires a 4623 1 hearing. It requires a determination that I 2 have great faith in the parole system to review 3 those types of jaywalking violations, as you 4 indicate, as not being subjected -- for a 90 5 year-old person to be subjected back to 6 incarceration. I think we have to have some 7 faith in the system and that they're going to 8 have a hearing. It will be -- if there is a 9 violation of parole, that revocation of parole 10 will -- will be established through the due 11 process hearing requirements, Senator. That 12 does not change with this bill. I know it's a 13 process that you support, and it's one that I 14 think certainly would be able to ferret out the 15 kinds of things that you have as concerns. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 17 would the gentleman yield to just one more 18 question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Does the Senator yield to one more question? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, to 22 one more question, yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 24 yields, Senator. 25 SENATOR WALDON: I thank you, Mr. 4624 1 President. I thank you, Senator Nozzolio. 2 Senator, my concern -- I'll 3 preface my question with this statement. My 4 concern is that people -- using your phrase, "We 5 should have faith in the system", that people 6 sometimes turn themselves around. Especially 7 when I visited the prison downstate, there were 8 those who were predicted from -- the social 9 workers and the psychosocial workers that I had 10 an opportunity to chat with were predicted to 11 have some success once released from prison and 12 would not necessarily return as recidivist 13 sexual offenders. 14 So it is my belief that, one, 15 some of those people will successfully 16 transition back to society. My second concern 17 is where will we get the money to continue to 18 monitor them 20, 30, 40, some 50 years, because 19 some of these people come out of prison at a 20 very young age and is it in our best interests 21 in society to continue to monitor people for 22 this length of time when we already have in the 23 community to which they return police officers. 24 We may even now have alerted the entire 25 community to what their history was, so everyone 4625 1 is watching them and, three, there may be some 2 saving grace in all of the support systems and 3 all of the psychosocial support therapies that 4 they receive which would preclude their actually 5 recidivating, their creating for themselves or 6 participating in an act which would send them 7 back to prison. So I think that that is a 8 concern. 9 So my question again is, what do 10 you offer to us as a way of paying for this, 11 which is an extraordinary expense, at a time of 12 diminished revenue in the state, despite the $2 13 billion coming to us from Wall Street? As a 14 rule of thumb over the last few years, we have 15 had less and less money to do more and more 16 with. Where are we going to get the money? 17 Show me the money that we will get in order to 18 monitor these people. 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I can 20 only respond to your statement this way. 21 Firstly, we have -- any attempt to cut the 22 recidivism rate for those who have committed 23 heinous sex offenses will save the taxpayers 24 money in terms of less people sent back to jail 25 because less people will be committing -- fewer 4626 1 people will be committing this crime. 2 Senator, I'm going to conclude in 3 response to your question by saying the victims 4 of sexual assault develop things like 5 post-traumatic stress syndrome, symptoms 6 including fear, helplessness, shock, disbelief, 7 guilt, humiliation, embarrassment, anger, self 8 blame, flashbacks of the rape, avoidance of 9 previously pleasurable activities. They are 10 victims for the rest of their lives, Senator, 11 and for you to put a price tag in a debate like 12 this, I think, Senator, trivializes, in large 13 part, the focus of the victim. I know you don't 14 intend to do that. I know your concerns are 15 certainly honorable but, Senator, I think we 16 have to look at the entire picture. 17 For every person that we save 18 from incarceration, from committing -- for every 19 person we save from committing this crime again, 20 we not only save money to the state. More 21 importantly, we save further victimization of 22 the citizens of this state, something that you 23 try to put a price tag on, Senator. I think the 24 cost is immeasurable and that, frankly, I don't 25 want to engage in that type of discussion. 4627 1 I think this bill more than pays 2 for itself but more importantly, any crime that 3 we can stop more than pays the cost of our 4 entire treasury. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 6 Senator Nozzolio. 7 Mr. President, on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 It would seem if we're going to 13 have lifetime parole for those who commit 14 serious sex offenses, we should as well have 15 lifetime parole for kidnappers, lifetime parole 16 for robbers, lifetime parole for those who 17 commit serious assaults with acid or knives or 18 guns or baseball bats or tire chains. Certainly 19 we should have lifetime parole for those who are 20 convicted of murder and then where will the 21 resources come from to maintain those people who 22 are on lifetime parole? 23 I don't understand distinguishing 24 between this one particular kind of act and all 25 of the other heinous crimes which are on the 4628 1 books of the state of New York. Why are we so 2 selective in this proposal only against those 3 who commit sexual offenses? Where is the phobia 4 originating? If we're going to do this and do 5 it right, let's include everybody who commits a 6 heinous act. Let's commit and include all of 7 those who are murderers, all of those who are 8 rapists, all of those who are sodomizers, all of 9 those who are robbers in the first degree, all 10 of those who kidnap. That would be equity in 11 terms of the application of the criminal justice 12 system, but I think it's unnecessary. I think 13 it is unnecessary. 14 I don't understand the 15 motivation, and the reason I chose to debate the 16 bill is I was trying to find a reason that this 17 bill is being proposed, a rational reason. I do 18 not find it. 19 And so I'll ask my colleagues to 20 oppose it and to vote against it, but in any 21 event, it seems to me that with the law 22 enforcement personnel that we have throughout 23 the state, with the parole officers we have in 24 place at this moment, with the very fine 25 probation system that we have in this state at 4629 1 this moment, with the courts being able to do 2 their job as they're able to do at this moment, 3 with outstanding district attorneys in the state 4 of New York at this moment, that this is 5 superfluous; it is not necessary and we should 6 not pursue this course of action. 7 I request respectfully that my 8 colleagues join with me in opposing this 9 proposal, and I shall vote no. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. Would 14 Senator Nozzolio yield, please? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Senator, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 22 there's much in your bill that I like, but I 23 want to know whether this is an honest effort on 24 your part to present this and I'm not sure it 25 is. 4630 1 I listened to the debate between 2 you and Senator Waldon. I think that he asked 3 perfectly proper questions of what is going to 4 be the cost of this. So I want to pursue that 5 with you. 6 Now, you may be absolutely 7 correct that over 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 8 40 years, this will really be a saving for the 9 people of the state of New York, and I accept 10 that but certainly in the first instance, it's 11 going to require an outlay because you provide 12 for residential treatment centers -- I don't 13 know if that's what you call them but I think 14 that's what it is -- for six months. Persons 15 upon being released are required to be in a 16 residential treatment center. Now, that's not 17 -- that's going to require putting money up 18 front and I'll probably support you on that, but 19 I think it's perfectly appropriate for somebody 20 to ask where is the money coming from? You say 21 the budget. That's fine. How much is it going 22 to cost? That's the question. Let's see 23 whether we can -- by pinpointing the residential 24 treatment center, whether we can get an answer 25 out of you. 4631 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 2 in response to Senator Leichter's question, 3 Senator, first of all, this is an honest 4 attempt. I wish you wouldn't try to put terms 5 of character involved in the efforts that are 6 good faith attempts here to rectify a 7 situation. I'm sure you didn't mean -- I would 8 hope that you didn't mean to impinge upon my 9 integrity by using the word "honest" but, 10 frankly, I think you should be careful about 11 throwing out such types of terms. 12 I wouldn't label your question a 13 dishonest question. I think that to you to 14 label my answer anything other than honest and 15 filled with integrity is, Senator, something 16 that I see too much of in this chamber and, 17 frankly, I wish that -- in an effort to create a 18 little more civility, I wish you would temper 19 your remarks in a more appropriate fashion 20 leaving out the word -- words that would somehow 21 impinge on an individual's character. 22 I have been honest in bringing 23 this measure before us and let me, in response 24 to your question, tell you that, Senator, I do 25 not own a crystal ball. I am not a future 4632 1 teller. I can only say that the true genuine 2 costs of this measure will be based on the 3 amount of sex offenders that we have in the 4 system. It's very difficult now to say but 5 hopefully as a result of this measure, we'll 6 have fewer sex offenders than we will -- would 7 otherwise have. We would have fewer people 8 going into prison, committing these crimes in 9 the first place. 10 Senator, this only applies to 11 retrospective -- it only applies to prospective 12 crimes and criminality. It doesn't apply to 13 anybody incarcerated today. It's so it's very 14 difficult to predict the exact cost. 15 Measuring the cost is also 16 determined on not just the number -- the 17 frequency of criminals entering into the system 18 but the true cost is gauged by how many 19 criminals we're also keeping out of the system 20 by their lack of participating in this criminal 21 conduct in the first place. Every person we can 22 keep out of jail from not committing this crime, 23 we not only save the victimization of those 24 individuals who have been attacked by sex 25 predators in the past but we also send less 4633 1 people -- fewer people to prison. 2 So in terms of gauging a cost, 3 Senator, it's very difficult for those -- those 4 reasons. However, logic would say that for - 5 that we have the highest amount of recidivism in 6 this crime. More people are committing this 7 crime again and again and again. After they 8 leave prison, you'll see more than half of them 9 come back to prison committing this same crime. 10 The more people we can keep out of this crime, 11 the less people -- fewer people will be sent to 12 prison. I think we'll see savings there. 13 Senator, I can't predict the 14 costs. I don't pretend to be able to predict 15 the costs but it's for those legitimate reasons 16 that we cannot say precisely what the costs will 17 be. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 19 if Senator Nozzolio would be good enough to 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator, do you yield for another question? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 24 President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 4634 1 yields. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I certainly 3 wasn't impugning your integrity, but I think 4 that the members here have a right to examine to 5 see whether a bill is being put out for public 6 relations purposes or whether it's a serious 7 effort to try to get a program passed, and we 8 had a bill of yours last week, I think it was, 9 that very easily could have accomplished what 10 you wanted to if you, frankly, wanted to get 11 something passed with the votes of both sides of 12 the aisle, if you wanted it passed by the 13 Assembly. It seemed to me, frankly, that you 14 were more interested in making a statement 15 rather than passing a law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Excuse me, gentlemen. Can -- in the interest of 18 time and debate, can we keep our references to 19 the bill in question and let's not debate bills 20 from a week ago. We have a bill before us. I 21 see no reason -- the Chair sees no reason to go 22 back and forth on a personal level. Can we keep 23 it on the bill. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 25 I think what I'm saying is relevant to what 4635 1 we're trying to accomplish, which is to find out 2 whether there's sufficient backup for this bill 3 to show that, by engaging in this effort to try 4 to pass the bill, we're going to be enacting a 5 program which, by the way, I would support but, 6 Senator Nozzolio, you know, when you were asked 7 about it by Senator Waldon, you took umbrage. 8 You said he's not concerned, as I understood you 9 to say, about victims. How can you put a cost 10 on it? 11 Well, Senator, we do it all the 12 time. We say the State Police, they save 13 lives. They do a lot of things that prevents 14 harm and yet we have a budget item for the State 15 Police. I don't think it's that hard to come up 16 with a budget item for this and it's probably 17 one that we ought to do that I would support, 18 but I don't know why you find it so difficult to 19 say that this is going to be a program that in 20 the first instance is going to require the 21 expenditure of money. It's going to be 22 expensive but it's money that the state of New 23 York ought to commit. 24 Let me -- let me try to see 25 whether we can come up with some idea of a 4636 1 figure. Senator, am I - 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'm listening, 3 Senator, to your question. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, am I 5 correct in understanding that this bill, if it 6 became law, would apply to persons who are 7 presently serving sentences for any of the 8 crimes enumerated in your bill? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, 10 you're incorrect. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm 12 incorrect? Would you show me where in the bill 13 it makes it clear that it does not apply to 14 people who are presently in prison for one of 15 the enumerated crimes. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, 17 you're incorrect because we're establishing a 18 new sentence, in effect, under this statute. 19 It's a sentence of lifetime parole which 20 accompanies the crime in chief. That sentence, 21 as you well know, can only be given 22 prospectively under the tenets of the United 23 States and New York Constitution. We're not 24 engaging in any retrospective sentencing through 25 this measure. It's only for those who are 4637 1 sentenced for crimes committed under the 2 enumerated felonies listed here in the bill 3 prospectively. 4 I should also add, in my response 5 to Senator Waldon's question -- maybe you 6 weren't in the room when it was raised but the 7 Senator said if there's a technical violation of 8 a measure. Well, frankly, Senator, remember - 9 let's keep our eye on the ball here. Remember 10 what we're dealing with. We're dealing with 11 those who have committed the most heinous crimes 12 you could possibly imagine and that tell the 13 women of this state that are raped, tell them - 14 the young children who are preyed upon by sex 15 predators that, in effect, this is not an 16 appropriate remedy. This is not something 17 that's appropriate. 18 So, Senator, that's my response 19 to your question. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 21 Nozzolio, if you would continue to yield. I - 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Excuse me. Senator, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 25 President. 4638 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have 2 difficulty understanding your making the 3 statement that this is a serious offense. We 4 understand that it's a very serious offense and 5 nothing that Senator Waldon said or I said, 6 Senator, indicates otherwise. In fact, I 7 support the basic premise of your bill. 8 So, Senator, I think, you know, 9 these sort of statements are frankly gratuitous 10 and if you want to talk about civility, and so 11 on, implying that in some respect Senator Waldon 12 wasn't concerned about victims or that those of 13 us who are questioning you are not concerned 14 about victims, I would urge you to pay 15 attention, frankly, to what it is we're asking 16 and what I asked you was very simple, which is 17 show me -- is there any language in your bill 18 that says that this bill does not apply solely 19 to people who are convicted after the effective 20 date of the bill? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Line 19 and 20 22 of page 3. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: That's line 24 19, page 3? 25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: My copy, 4639 1 Senator, may not be -- that's Section S.4. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry. 3 Section - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Section S.4, Senator, assuming his copy may be 6 different from yours. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: I don't 8 believe there's any S.4, Senator. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Section - 10 we're adding -- Senator, let me read them in 11 appropriate -- I'm not sure what -- I have a 12 Bill Drafting copy of the measure. You probably 13 have the print, but "any person convicted of a 14 violation of" -- this is S -- Section S.4 of the 15 Penal Law is amended by adding a new Section 70 16 -- or 70.09 to read as follows. "70.09. 17 Lifetime Parole" -- under the sub-heading 18 "Lifetime Parole. Any person convicted of a 19 violation of enumerated sections in the Penal 20 Law shall, in addition to the sentence or fine 21 otherwise authorized by law, be sentenced to 22 lifetime parole." So we're talking about those 23 who are committing the crimes prospectively. 24 Senator, frankly, that's why it 25 becomes more difficult to ascertain a true, 4640 1 genuine, precise at this moment dollar cost to 2 this measure because we're talking about those 3 who are committing crimes prospectively. We're 4 also talking about hopefully keeping those who 5 are committing crimes out of jail, those who are 6 being sent to jail again and again because of 7 the recidivism rates for these types of offense, 8 Senator, being so high. 9 So I understand your desire to 10 find out the costs of measures. I think that's 11 certainly a legitimate inquiry, but I'm telling 12 you, Senator, that to determine the true costs 13 of this bill, we have to look at not just those 14 who are convicted and are going to be sentenced 15 to lifetime parole but how many we are 16 preventing from committing this crime in the 17 first place. How many we are preventing from 18 committing recidivism -- recidivating time and 19 time again, going back to jail two and three 20 times because they're continuing to commit this 21 crime. I would say if we spent the costs of 22 lifetime parole now under these offenses, that 23 we will more than make up for the costs of this 24 through the lifetime of the measure. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 4641 1 Nozzolio would continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Senator, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 6 does, sir. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I was 8 the one who questioned Megan's Law that Senator 9 Skelos proposed last year or two years ago on 10 the grounds of constitutionality and, as you 11 know, the court has declared its retroactive 12 features unconstituional, but it's clear to me 13 that we can provide for a particular crime that 14 the period of parole will change without, I 15 think, running afoul of the ex post facto law. 16 So I don't see anything in your bill that says 17 that this bill will apply only to persons who 18 are convicted subsequent to the date. 19 Now, I think there is one feature 20 of your bill that maybe would run afoul of that 21 and that is that you require the residential - 22 the restricted residences. That very well may 23 not be applicable to people if you tack it onto 24 their current sentences, but certainly the - 25 the aspects of your bill that should be done 4642 1 immediately such as -- and I assume you intend 2 them to be immediately, such as the fact that we 3 ought to have -- such as the fact that we ought 4 to have a program of treatment for sex 5 offenders. I think that's a very beneficial 6 feature of that bill and certainly ought to be 7 instigated immediately. 8 We certainly ought to -- I think 9 lifetime parole for sex offenders is something 10 that we can do immediately. So I would -- I 11 would think it's unfortunate if you now 12 interpret your own bill as not providing the 13 lifetime parole for persons who are presently in 14 prison for one of these enumerated offenses. I 15 think the only thing that raises a question 16 would be the restricted residences because that 17 clearly, I don't think we can do for persons who 18 are presently in prison for one of these 19 offenses. That, I think we could probably only 20 do prospectively. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, if 22 you would suffer an interruption and, Mr. 23 President, if I could speak through you. 24 Mr. President, in asking you to 25 yield, Senator, we're not talking about any 4643 1 person who is in jail today receiving a sentence 2 of lifetime parole. This is only for 3 prospective conduct, Senator, and prospective 4 crimes and being sentenced prospectively for 5 lifetime parole. I respect yours and other 6 concerns of establishing laws and changing laws 7 for conduct that took place in the past. We're 8 talking prospectively, Senator, and this bill - 9 I need to clarify it for you. We're talking 10 about prospective sentences and this establishes 11 the ability, the sentence prospectively with a 12 lifetime parole sentence. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 14 on the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Senator Leichter, on the bill. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I mean, I'm 18 sorry to have Senator Nozzolio, I think limit 19 his bill in a manner that isn't necessary. I 20 think that lifetime parole makes a lot of sense 21 and should not be prospective, and I would ask 22 you to reconsider that aspect of it because I 23 think you could perfectly well do it 24 constitutionally. 25 So I don't know why you say that 4644 1 you intend to do that only prospectively because 2 that -- that would mean that hundreds of inmates 3 -- and I don't know how many inmates are in 4 jail for one of these enumerated offenses, maybe 5 you do -- would not be subject to lifetime 6 parole and they should be, but I don't read your 7 bill that way. It isn't clear at all. 8 I think the only issue is whether 9 you could add onto it -- to the sentence of 10 somebody restricted residence. It seems clear 11 to me that you cannot but there are parts of 12 your bill that talk about if somebody's out on 13 parole, that he may have to serve that remainder 14 of his sentence in a restricted residence, which 15 I assume we can do. 16 So I'm -- it just seems to me, 17 Senator, that this could be set forth in a more 18 clearer fashion. We could have a fiscal note 19 that will say, Well, this will cost so much in 20 the first instance but it's something that we 21 ought to do because we are saving lives, keeping 22 lives from being ruined. We're hopefully 23 keeping people from becoming victims. 24 I'm just bothered every time when 25 we see these fiscal notes that everything that 4645 1 -- not everything, but so often our programs 2 are put forward and people are afraid to say 3 it's going to cost money. Say it, because it 4 happens to be true and it happens to be well 5 spent. By the same token you can say -- you 6 might just as well say for educational programs, 7 for educational aid. Oh, fiscal implication? 8 This will save us money because, I guess if we 9 educate more people, they're going to earn more 10 money and they'll pay more taxes. So in the 11 long run it's a good investment for the state of 12 New York but, Senator, in the short run, it's 13 going to require money and it's, I think, money 14 well spent and I -- when I said, is this an 15 honest effort, I think an honest effort would 16 require saying this will cost a certain amount 17 of money, and I just want to say that I think 18 Senator Waldon asked perfectly appropriate 19 questions, and I don't know whether he should 20 have been met with the attack that he doesn't 21 care about victims. He cares very much about 22 victims, but I think he asked appropriate 23 questions. I think I asked appropriate 24 questions and, frankly, I would think somebody 25 who puts forward a major program of this sort 4646 1 would be in a position to say I think it's going 2 to cost this amount of money initially but I'll 3 tell you this, that in 10 years, 20 years, 30 4 years, you're going to save money because you're 5 going to have fewer victims of these horrendous 6 crimes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 11. This 10 act shall take effect on the first day of 11 November. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 1, 16 Senator Waldon recorded in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 18 bill is passed. 19 Senator Larkin. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 21 would you now call Calendar Number 920, Senator 22 Nozzolio's. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 24 Secretary will read Calendar Number 920. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4647 1 920, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3429, an 2 act to amend the Correction Law, in relation to 3 requiring inmates to make medical co-payments. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator, an explanation has been asked for. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, Mr. 7 President, my colleagues, this bill requires 8 inmates in New York State correctional 9 facilities to make co-payments for medical 10 services in the amount of $7 per visit. The 11 measure currently -- New York currently spends 12 over $120 million each year on prison health 13 services, which is just under $2,000 per 14 inmate. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the 100th - 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Excuse me. Senator Montgomery, why do you 21 rise? 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would like 23 to ask if the sponsor would answer a couple of 24 inquiries about this legislation. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4648 1 Senator, do you yield to Senator Montgomery? 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 5 yields, Senator. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. Thank 7 you. 8 Senator Nozzolio, usually in the 9 instance of a co-payment that is required, 10 someone does have to pay even if the person is 11 indigent and that's been one of the problems for 12 health facilities when we require co-payment in 13 instances of Medicaid payments, that essentially 14 what happens is the health facility has to 15 suffer the loss in the event that the co-payment 16 is not made, and I'm just trying to figure out 17 based on your legislation who will pay for the 18 co-payment that is not paid by the -- in the 19 event it's not paid by the inmate? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The mechanics 21 of the bill, Senator, allow that should an 22 inmate not have sufficient funds in his accounts 23 to cover the co-payment charges -- and we're 24 talking $7 of medical co-payment per visit, 25 which is -- we use the amount because I believe 4649 1 that those who are state employees under the 2 state plan have a $7 co-pay and why should those 3 hard-working people who work in our correctional 4 facilities have to pay a co-payment while those 5 who are incarcerated in our correctional 6 facilities do not have to pay a co-payment? To 7 me, that is such an unfair situation that I 8 believe it cried out for this rectification. 9 30 states are -- either have 10 enacted or have this proposal -- these proposals 11 pending for enactment. What we did here is 12 establish a co-payment equal to the state 13 charge. Should an inmate not have sufficient 14 funds in his account to cover the charges, then 15 his account -- and this is after the inmate goes 16 to receive the medical treatment. No one will 17 be denied treatment but a -- regardless of 18 whether they have the co-payment or not, but 19 each inmate will be logged and those, in effect, 20 will be billed for their payment. 21 Each inmate, as you well know, 22 has an inmate account. Some of those accounts 23 get to be pretty large in terms of sufficient 24 cash through time, that we, in effect, will be 25 debiting the accounts of inmate per their 4650 1 co-payment. An inmate shall not -- as I should 2 emphasize to you and my colleagues, no one will 3 be refused treatment for lack of ability to pay 4 co-payment charges. The charge is assessed 5 after completion of the visit when the log is 6 processed and that -- I believe that -- if your 7 question was whether an inmate, if they cannot 8 pay in terms of their account is vacant, if they 9 have no money in the account, then it's just a 10 negative balance. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 12 Nozzolio, I see in your support memo that we 13 currently spend 121 million or 2,000 per inmate 14 on prison health services. Does that mean then 15 that we are going to make an adjustment to that 16 121 million based on the co-payments, or are we 17 -- will the facility collect the money from the 18 inmates which increases ultimately the 121 19 million for whatever amount it might be and do 20 you know what that amount might be? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Certainly, 22 Senator, that whatever savings are generated 23 will be money coming into the state coffers, are 24 not being expended in the state coffers. It 25 would be up to this Legislature and the Assembly 4651 1 to hammer out a plan as to where those 2 additional savings will go to, but just in New 3 York State, let me just give you an example of 4 one inmate who went to sick call 52 times in 5 eight months, 17 times for colds, 13 times for 6 dandruff, 4 times for ear wax, 6 times for 7 athletes foot, 7 times for a toothache and 5 8 times for muscular aches, or another who went 19 9 times in two months, 7 for colds, 3 for 10 insomnia, 3 for callouses, 3 for a headache and 11 3 for an old healed finger injury. There's an 12 abuse of the system here that is not just by 13 these two inmates but across the board. It's an 14 enormous medical cost. It's also a cost in 15 terms of lost time, managerial costs. 16 What we're saying is we're not 17 trying to deny payments or to deny services to 18 those who are truly needy of services. We're 19 not going to deny services to anybody who 20 legitimately is sick and cannot pay, but we are 21 setting up a mechanism so that the taxpayers can 22 be reimbursed for this medical -- at least a 23 small portion of this medical cost. I believe 24 that this will also add as a chilling effect - 25 will have a chilling effect on those who are 4652 1 continually abusing the system. 2 Your employees or the employees 3 of any correctional facility could not get this 4 type of medical treatment. Why should the 5 inmates of this state be using sick call as a 6 way to avoid work in the prison, to avoid their 7 responsibilities in a prison, to break up their 8 routine? Those are the inmates we are trying to 9 stop from abusing the system, Senator, and 10 that's why the bill is before us. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 12 Nozzolio -- Mr. President, through you, I would 13 like to - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 18 yields, Senator. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 20 Nozzolio, you say that you are going to reduce 21 -- this is a budget measure, apparently, that 22 you're looking to raise funds in addition to 23 discouraging the use of the medical facilities. 24 How much are you anticipating raising with this 25 measure? Do you have any idea what you might - 4653 1 what kind of budget implication this measure 2 means for us? 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I 4 think we need to look at this in a couple of 5 ways. Those states that have established this 6 co-payment, some states, the sick call visits by 7 inmates were reduced as high as 76 percent. We 8 also -- let's assume that we could do half of 9 that. Let's say we were able to reduce sick 10 call costs by 30 percent. More appropriately, 11 we would be saving money for the taxpayers and 12 also have scarce medical resources available for 13 those inmates who are truly sick. 14 I have been to many of the 15 prisons, our women's prisons, in particular, 16 which I think you would be very sensitive to. 17 There is a tremendous amount of sickness on 18 behalf of inmates in our women's facilities. I 19 would say more so than our men's, although 20 they're both -- there are many, many sick people 21 in our state prisons today, tuberculosis, HIV. 22 They are very serious, serious matters. 23 What I'm saying is let's take the 24 inmates out of sick call who are complaining 25 about hangnails or are complaining about things 4654 1 that are very, very on the margin and let's 2 focus medical attention on those who are very 3 sick. I think that's really another aspect here 4 that should not be missed or glossed over, that 5 this measure allows us to take doctor's time - 6 which is scarce. It's a resource in prison - 7 and focus it on those who are seriously sick as 8 opposed to those who may be using the system to 9 abuse it. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 11 President, if the Senator will -- I'm listening 12 carefully at what -- his answer to that question 13 in terms of what it's going to save us and you 14 indicate that some states have saved up to 76 15 percent and you also indicate in your answer 16 that the most serious illnesses will not be 17 affected by this particular measure, but I don't 18 see anywhere in the legislation where it 19 indicates that you will not have to make the 20 co-payment if you have, in fact, one of the 21 kinds of illnesses that you describe as being 22 more serious like tuberculosis, and I also would 23 like to ask you, since we understand that 24 there's a large percentage of inmates who are 25 HIV-positive, many of them with active cases of 4655 1 AIDS, what do you propose we do with those 2 inmates, assuming they're going to have to have 3 more intensive and extensive medical care? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, line 5 18 through 20 on page 1 of the bill talks about 6 those inmates who are -- have no ability to pay 7 their co-payment charges. An inmate is not 8 going to be refused treatment for their 9 inability to pay but there will be a lien on 10 their account so that an inmate account -- as 11 you know, every inmate has an account. Some 12 have pretty big accounts. This allows the 13 Department of Corrections to put a lien on their 14 inmate account so that if at the end of their 15 sentence, they'll make a provision -- they'll 16 have the lien on the account through the time of 17 incarceration and if there is any money in that 18 account, it will be returned to the taxpayers. 19 If not, then there may be some collection 20 processes established but there are none in this 21 bill. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And one last 23 question, Senator Nozzolio. How much -- what 24 percent of income are we speaking about here? 25 What exactly is -- what do we pay inmates per 4656 1 diem for their work? 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: We pay inmates 3 three square meals a day. We pay inmates 4 housing. We pay inmates cable television. We 5 pay for inmates to get their high school 6 equivalency. We're paying and paying and 7 paying. For those inmates who work -- and 8 unfortunately, Senator, work is not a 9 requirement in our correctional facilities. I 10 would like to see the day when this Legislature 11 stands up and supports measures that would 12 require inmates to work. We have no requirement 13 that they work. They make, in some of the 14 prison industries, up to $5 an hour -- a day, 15 rather. I'm sorry -- up to $5 a day. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: $5 a day. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: So that a $25 18 a week account can add up, as you can see, very 19 quickly. An inmate who is working would be an 20 inmate who would certainly be able to have an 21 account in order for them to make purchases. 22 They have these inmate accounts. The inmate 23 account is there and that we're just saying for 24 the costs of medical care, a small charge should 25 be incurred. 4657 1 Also, the state -- just to save 2 the costs, the state of New Jersey has 3 instituted this program. They cut their costs, 4 I believe the first year by about $10 million. 5 Florida, in the first year, saw an extreme lack 6 of -- an extreme reduction in the amount of sick 7 calls used. Co-payments totaled in the first 8 two years almost $1 million back to the system, 9 but I must add that I'm not naive to think that 10 this is a perfect system. No way is it intended 11 -- or proposed that it's a perfect system. 12 What we're saying here, though, 13 is in small measure, we're going to have inmates 14 be responsible for some of the costs of their 15 incarceration and some of the costs of their 16 health care, just like every citizen. In effect 17 -- look at it this way. It not only saves 18 money for the taxpayers but it also has - 19 instills a value here upon the inmate, that in 20 order to receive a service, you have to pay for 21 the service. I think it just is a good part of 22 rehabilitation in terms of focusing real world 23 experiences upon our prison inmates. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you. 4658 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 2 Nozzolio. 3 Let me speak just briefly on the 4 legislation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator Montgomery, on the bill. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I understand 8 Senator Nozzolio's anguish with the fact that we 9 provide medical services to inmates while we 10 don't provide free of charge necessarily medical 11 services to the people who work in Corrections 12 or any other group of citizens who can afford to 13 pay or who are insured by the state or some 14 municipality or some private industry, but it 15 really is very unfortunate that the Senator 16 selects this means which essentially punishes 17 people who are already incarcerated and who are 18 already being -- suffering whatever the 19 appropriate punishment that we have established 20 for them in the state. He wants to further 21 punish them by forcing them to pay $7 per visit 22 for medical care and it is -- it is purported 23 that we are going to save money or raise money 24 in the process and the unfortunate thing is that 25 we have a system where we have large numbers of 4659 1 people who are -- who live very close to each 2 other, in some instances two people in one cell 3 and they are not only -- it's not only a place 4 where it's very easy to have diseases of all 5 sorts be quickly spread among populations of 6 inmates but also to the outside world through 7 the corrections personnel, and it seems to me to 8 be penny-wise and pound-foolish to take that 9 kind of chance just to further punish the 10 inmates and to ostensibly save a little money 11 and, of course, Senator Nozzolio does not 12 indicate what exactly he sees us saving or how 13 much this is going to really ultimately impact 14 on the budget if at all. 15 So I urge my colleagues to really 16 reject this notion that we should -- we should 17 essentially take medical services away or the 18 availability of medical services away from 19 inmates because having access and -- complete 20 and free access to medical services is much 21 safer for us in terms of the health of the 22 communities to which those inmates will return, 23 the health of the other inmates in the facility 24 and the health of the corrections people. I 25 think it's much more important that we have 4660 1 those services so that we can protect the health 2 of all of those people, of all of us as opposed 3 to trying to raise a little money this way and 4 ultimately prevent inmates from accessing health 5 care. 6 So I urge a no vote on this 7 bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Senator Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 11 much. Would the sponsor yield for a question or 12 two? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Nozzolio, would you yield to Senator 15 Waldon? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 18 yields, sir. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, are you 20 aware of restitution as part of their estate 21 where someone is ordered to pay restitution, as 22 part of their penalty? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 25 gentleman continue to yield? 4661 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Continue to yield? He does. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, have 4 you computed the cost of the wash cloth, the 5 towel, the tooth brush, the tooth paste, the 6 uniform, have you considered that maybe this is 7 part of it? 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator, 9 I have thought of it, and I certainly would 10 understand your concern with any inmate's cost 11 of their incarceration, but I wanted to start 12 here, Senator, in all seriousness because this 13 is an enormous problem and this is why we 14 started here. It's a problem because, if you go 15 to the prison, you see sick calls being used 16 really not for the intention and really not the 17 purposes that it was intended, and that's why we 18 focused on this issue first. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Will the 20 gentleman continue to yield, Senator? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 23 yields, Senator. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 25 President. Thank you, Senator. 4662 1 Then, Senator, since it is such a 2 problem and it is so rampant, from your 3 characterization, can you tell us how many times 4 sick call was resorted to in 1996 or how many 5 sick calls were made in 1995 or how many sick 6 calls were made in 1994? Can you give us some 7 data on that? 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I do 9 not have the number of sick calls. I have the 10 total amount of money we spend on the medical 11 costs up there. It's about 120 million, $121 12 million on prison health services. I think on 13 all the costs of incarceration, we're spending 14 121 million on just medical services. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 16 gentleman continue to yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Do 18 you continue to yield, Senator? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 21 does, Senator. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Would I be fair, 23 Senator Nozzolio, in eliciting from what you 24 said that that $120 million includes operations 25 ordered by the doctor, those patients who have 4663 1 HIV/AIDS who are treated by the doctors; it 2 would include dental situations; it would 3 include appendectomies, colostomies, whatever is 4 required by the prison doctors on behalf of the 5 patients, not just sick call visits that were 6 done to beat the system? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, I believe 8 that's fair, Senator. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 10 Nozzolio, would you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 14 yields, Senator. 15 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir. 16 Senator, you are probably our expert on the 17 prisons in this chamber. You have a greater 18 awareness than the rest of us and we appreciate 19 you for that, so you understand the importance 20 of the money and the cigarettes and that whole 21 underground situation that is the prisons. 22 Those of us who are aware of what prisons are 23 really like know that, if there's not 24 cooperation between the warden and the people 25 who work with the prisons, the guards and the 4664 1 prisoners, that we have complete chaos and 2 within the prison community they have unwritten 3 rules in terms of their economy and their 4 bartering system, and what you're proposing is 5 taking the 62 cents per hour that some of them 6 make, utilizing it for sick call and taking away 7 what, in effect, might be the recreation money 8 for a number of prisoners. 9 Have you considered the chaos 10 that that might create when people do not have 11 enough to subsist within the prison system? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, 13 certainly there's a -- by establishing the 14 costs, there are inmates, there will have to be 15 inmates who have to make a decision, and what 16 I'm trying to prevent is those who are making 17 the decision not to work, not to participate in 18 programs but to go to sick call. I think it's 19 become a career for some inmates. Those are - 20 are seen, as I've read, I don't know if you 21 heard my comments in response to Senator 22 Montgomery, but I mentioned the inmate who went 23 to sick call 19 times in the last -- within a 24 two- or three-week period. That's what we're 25 trying to prevent by this bill too. It's not 4665 1 the person with serious illness. It's not the 2 person with an occasional visit to the sick call 3 that will be in any way really affected by this 4 measure to a great degree. 5 I mean we're talking about 6 inmates who work. We're saying it's maybe a 7 day's wages for those who are working but it - 8 frankly, I don't think it's going to be a big 9 dent in any inmate's pocket and, more 10 importantly, it's a huge cost that we're bearing 11 for those inmates who are abusing the system, so 12 if we can put this in and help stop that abuse, 13 help reduce that abuse, I think we're all going 14 to be further ahead, and I think that chaos you 15 describe, we already have chaos now in the sick 16 call process. It's the amount of management 17 time, guards, correction officers, that 18 accompany people the frequent sick call visits, 19 taking them out of the general population, 20 putting them in the sick call, it's just an 21 enormous managerial problem as well, so I think 22 we have -- it would be -- I think the chaos you 23 described is -- I think, would certainly be 24 mitigated by these other circumstances we're 25 discussing. 4666 1 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 2 would the gentleman indulge me for just one or 3 two more questions? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Of course, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, sir. 9 Senator, I know that you're aware of our 10 constitutional guarantees in regard to cruel and 11 unusual punishment and you're also aware 12 historically of ex post facto law in this 13 country, and that we're not supposed to, in an 14 unusual and cruel manner, punish people 15 unnecessarily and that, after an act is 16 committed which was O.K. when it was committed, 17 we're not supposed to then find them guilty of 18 something that was not a crime at the moment 19 that it was committed. 20 Could you characterize the 21 punishment -- in your thought process, can you 22 characterize the punishment of the co-pay for 23 the medical treatment perhaps as coming under 24 the umbrella of cruel and unusual punishment and 25 perhaps as implementing ex post facto laws? 4667 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, it's, 2 I believe, certainly a relevant and 3 thought-provoking question. The Supreme Court 4 in Revere vs. Massachusetts General Hospital, 5 United States Supreme Court, found in 1983 that 6 as long as the inmate received the necessary 7 attention, state law should determine who paid 8 for that attention, so in effect, as long as 9 this bill would not prevent an inmate from 10 getting the medical services they needed, which 11 it does not, the mechanisms we have in the bill 12 allow, at the threshold, the inmate to get the 13 attention, and then his account will be debited 14 so it doesn't say to pay the money first and 15 then you receive the care. It says you get the 16 care and your account, by the way, is going to 17 be taken out $7 for that visit. 18 The court said, as long as care 19 is not prohibited, prevented from being 20 received, it is not unconstitutional, so I 21 believe we certainly -- and many states have 22 since that decision, taken this co-payment issue 23 up. New Jersey was first on this for inmate 24 co-pay for inmate medical services so, Senator, 25 certainly your concerns are legitimate in my 4668 1 view and that I hope that this answers your 2 question. 3 SENATOR WALDON: I thank you very 4 much, Senator Nozzolio. 5 Mr. President, on the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. Thank you, by the way, Senator 10 Nozzolio. 11 It is my belief that we are 12 really stretching here. The court heard the 13 case. The jury rendered its decision. 14 Hopefully a jury of one's peers found whomever 15 this person is that is being dealt with by the 16 criminal justice system, a jury of that person's 17 peers found him or her guilty and the person is 18 now serving time, hard time, in the prisons of 19 this state because once you get above a year's 20 penalty, it is definitely hard time. To take a 21 year out of someone's life or more is 22 definitely, in my opinion, hard time, and I 23 think that it's just ludicrous that we should 24 then burden the system with the managerial 25 aspect of checking on the prison, debiting and 4669 1 crediting accounts in regard to payment, but I 2 think from a moral perspective, from a human 3 equation perspective that to me this petty, this 4 punitive, this myopic, this narrow in terms of 5 our vision, really does not bespeak of the great 6 state that New York is or the great criminal 7 justice system that we have had historically, 8 and I would encourage us to be better than this, 9 to look beyond this, to have greater vision and 10 greater sensitivity to ourselves, not just those 11 who are in prison and to oppose this proposal. 12 I would encourage all of us on 13 Senate 3429 to vote loudly in the no. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Senator Leichter. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if 18 Senator Nozzolio would yield, please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator, do you yield to Senator Leichter? 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator yields, sir. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if we 4670 1 could take a look together at line 5 of your 2 bill which talks about medical treatment, am I 3 correct that the co-payment is due for each 4 medical treatment? 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Line 5, 6 Senator, of page - 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: On page 1. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And the 9 section 607.5? 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, 607. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And your 12 question, Senator? 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: The question 14 is, is the co-payment due for each medical 15 treatment? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Each visit, 17 Senator, each medical visit in line with as a 18 co-payment now is through our insurance policies 19 per visit, our plan, our state employee plan is 20 per visit, so if there are a number of 21 procedures incurred during that visit, it would 22 only be per visit, not per procedure. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: With all due 24 respect, Senator Nozzolio, if you would be good 25 enough to yield, and you've certainly corrected 4671 1 what I thought was an unclear provision of the 2 bill, don't you think that the bill ought to be 3 amended to make clear that you're talking about 4 visits, one visit -- you talk about treatment. 5 Taking blood is a treatment, giving a pill is a 6 treatment, taking some blood pressure is another 7 treatment. Shouldn't you, therefore, say per 8 visit? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Under 607.2, 10 Senator, that's line 5 of the bill, page one, 11 each inmate shall be required to sign a log 12 documenting the schedule of time of visit. If 13 that visit is the determining factor of the 14 co-payment, that the log is based on a per visit 15 basis, it's not based on a per procedure basis, 16 so that when the log -- the log is the -- will 17 be the determinative or the guidepost, if you 18 will, the billing on account system used by the 19 Corrections Department, so that on each visit 20 the inmate will be assessed, not -- there's no 21 intention of any other -- it says right in the 22 statute, right in the bill here, we're talking 23 about per visit. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 25 again if you would be - 4672 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Nozzolio, you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Continue to 4 yield. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 6 yields. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Section 2 8 really refers to the process of billing the 9 inmate since -- at each visit, but section 607 10 says very clearly that the amount of $7 shall be 11 due on the receipt of each medical treatment. I 12 mean it's perfectly clear and plain. 13 I understand -- I understand what 14 you mean, Senator Nozzolio -- I understand what 15 you mean, but very frankly, the only 16 interpretation of your bill is that an inmate 17 who comes in, like an inmate who's hospitalized, 18 may get 6 or 7 or 8 or 10 different treatments 19 in the course of a day, and under this bill 20 would be charged $7 for each such treatment. 21 On the other hand, an inmate who 22 comes in, the doctor or the nurse takes a look 23 at him and says, You're fine, get out of here, 24 wouldn't have to pay anything because he never 25 received any medical treatment, so I think 4673 1 again, Senator Nozzolio, I would -- I would urge 2 you to take a look at the language of your bill 3 and see if it really accomplishes your purpose. 4 Let me ask you just one other 5 question. Again, language that I just cannot 6 understand. This is line 22 on page 1. I'll 7 read the sentence and ask if you tell us what 8 its meaning is. "Federal inmates will be billed 9 directly through the jurisdiction which was 10 agreed to by the federal agency." 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 12 Senator, we have no authority to impose this 13 type of co-payment onto federal inmates and 14 there are some -- and there are some federal 15 inmates that are, for facility provided reasons, 16 that this prohibits us from assessing -- in 17 effect, we have no authority to assess onto 18 federal inmates, and so that we're saying that 19 if those -- as you well know, some of our 20 inmates get a federal per diem for being housed 21 at local and state facilities, and it doesn't 22 happen often, but it does happen often enough 23 and it doesn't happen every day but it happens 24 often enough that federal inmates are receiving 25 incarceration, are being incarcerated in state 4674 1 facilities as convicted of federal crimes or 2 otherwise sentenced by federal courts so that 3 that's why the -- we have to place the federal 4 admonition here as it reads because we just 5 don't have any authority to make that test. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you very 7 much, Senator Nozzolio, and I appreciate your 8 willingness. Always willing to answer questions 9 and I think that certainly speaks well to having 10 a process that enables us to try to understand 11 your bills, and I thank you for that. 12 Just very briefly, on the bill, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator Leichter, on the bill. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I just focused 17 on some of the specific language difficulties in 18 the bill, and I think anybody who looks at it 19 would have to come to the same conclusion that I 20 did, that while Senator Nozzolio's intent is 21 obviously to deal with ambulatory visits and to 22 charge $7 for each visit, it just doesn't say 23 that. It says very clearly co-payment in the 24 amount of $7 upon receipt of medical treatment. 25 The reference to visits is for the mechanism to 4675 1 try to collect the money which -- I'm sorry, 2 reminds me. 3 Senator Nozzolio, I did want to 4 ask you one other question if you would be kind 5 enough to yield for it. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator, do you yield for one more question? He 8 does. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Have you - 10 have you checked with the Department of 11 Correction what their view is of this bill 12 because obviously this requires a large 13 administrative effort by the Department? Are 14 they in support of this bill? 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, that 16 -- I know the measure is under review by the 17 Department. They've taken no formal position on 18 the measure. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I see. Thank 20 you. 21 It's clear to me that the bill is 22 not written to accomplish its purpose. Even if 23 it were, I don't want to hide behind some 24 technicality. I don't like the bill for the 25 reasons stated by Senator Montgomery and Senator 4676 1 Waldon, but I point out in addition that this 2 bill is going to or may very well end up costing 3 money because it imposes administrative burdens 4 on the Department. 5 I think it's highly unlikely that 6 you're going to be able to collect money from 7 the inmates, yet you have to set up this entire 8 system, and I think that's why we have no views 9 expressed by the Department. Clearly if this is 10 going to bring in a lot of money to the 11 Department, they would be the first ones to urge 12 us to pass this bill. They don't urge us to 13 pass this bill, and for very obvious reasons 14 because I don't think it is going to save 15 money. I think it is going to create problems 16 in the facility. I think we have an obligation 17 to provide medical treatment for people who are 18 incarcerated. I think the way to deal with the 19 malingerers is there is no obligation. If 20 somebody comes and says for the third day in a 21 row, Please take me to the doctor, I have 22 dandruff or whatever claims to be ailing him or 23 her, the guard could say, No, I'm not going to 24 do it, and that happens all the time and that's 25 really how the facility deals with people who 4677 1 abuse the medical services. 2 Yes, if you have 60-, 70,000 3 inmates as we do, you're going to have a medical 4 cost for taking care of them. We have a cost 5 for feeding them, housing them, and so on. It's 6 part of the cost that we have to pay for taking 7 violent people or people who have committed in 8 fraction of the law off the streets, but to say 9 they're going to charge them for their medical 10 services, I think, is ill founded, ill thought 11 out. I don't think it's going to work and, in 12 any respect, this bill doesn't even accomplish 13 what it seeks to do. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: Get 22 Markowitz. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 24 the negative on -- those recorded in the 25 negative on Calendar Number 920 are Senators 4678 1 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Paterson, 2 Sampson, Seabrook, Smith, Stavisky and Waldon. 3 Ayes 49, nays 9. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Present, that concludes 7 the reading of the controversial calendar. We 8 do have a report of the Rules Committee. May we 9 read that? 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 11 let's return to reports of standing committees. 12 I understand there's a report of the Rules 13 Committee there. May we have that? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Secretary will read the report of the Rules 16 Committee. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 18 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 19 following bills: 20 Senate Print 304, by Senator 21 Markowitz, an act authorizing the city of New 22 York to reconvey its interest; 23 342, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 24 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 25 726, by Senator Saland, an act to 4679 1 amend the Executive Law; 2 1273, by Senator Stachowski, an 3 act to amend the General Municipal Law; 4 2174, by Senator Oppenheimer, an 5 act to authorize the town of Harrison, West 6 chester County; 7 2844, by Senator Tully, an act 8 authorizing the assessor of the county of 9 Nassau; 10 3950-A, by Senator Johnson, an 11 act to authorize the Ingracia Pentecostal; 12 3951-A, by Senator Johnson, an 13 act to authorize the Church of God; 14 3992, by Senator Libous, an act 15 to amend the General Municipal Law; 16 4062, by Senator Velella, an act 17 to amend the Insurance Law; 18 4372, by Senator Libous, an act 19 to amend the Tax Law; 20 4472, by Senator Libous, an act 21 to amend the Executive Law; 22 4487, by Senator Velella, an act 23 to amend the Public Authorities Law; 24 4501, by Senator Tully, an act 25 authorizing the assessor of the county of 4680 1 Nassau; 2 4681, by Senator Tully, an act 3 authorizing the assessor of the county of 4 Nassau; 5 4977-A, by Senator Holland, an 6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 7 5052, by Senator Libous, an act 8 to amend the Executive Law; 9 5284, by Senator Libous, an act 10 to amend the Education Law; 11 5305, by Senator Holland, an act 12 to amend the Social Services Law; 13 5321, by Senator Tully, an act to 14 amend the Civil Rights Law; 15 5323, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 16 to amend Chapter 55 of the Laws of 1992; 17 5324, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 18 to amend the Executive Law; 19 5325, by Senator Volker, an act 20 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 21 5367, by Senator Goodman, an act 22 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 23 5396, by Senator Volker, an act 24 to amend the Penal Law; and 25 5404, by the Senate Committee on 4681 1 Rules, an act to amend the General Municipal 2 Law. 3 All bills ordered directly for 4 third reading. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator Present. 7 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 8 I move we accept the report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: All 11 in favor of accepting the report of the Rules 12 Committee signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 Opposed nay. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 The report is accepted. 17 Senator Present. 18 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 19 is there any housekeeping at the - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Rath. 22 SENATOR RATH: Yes, Mr. 23 President. On page 50, I offer the following 24 amendments to Calendar Number 376, Senate Print 25 Number 3481-B and ask that said bill retain its 4682 1 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: So 3 ordered. 4 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 5 wish to call up my bill, Print Number 1299, 6 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 7 desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 196, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1299, an 12 act to amend the Town Law. 13 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 14 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 15 bill was passed. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll on 19 reconsideration. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 21 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, I 22 now offer the following amendments. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Amendments accepted. 25 Senator Present. 4683 1 SENATOR PRESENT: Mr. President, 2 I move we adjourn until Wednesday, June 4th, at 3 11:00 a.m. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: On 5 the motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 6 Wednesday, June 4, at 11:00 a.m., at 11 a.m., 7 sharp. 8 (Whereupon at 2:58 p.m., the 9 Senate adjourned.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18