Tuesday, June 10, 1997

4938 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ALBANY, NEW YORK 9 June 10, 1997 10 10:05 a.m. 11 12 13 REGULAR SESSION 14 15 16 17 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 18 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4939 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would you please rise and join 4 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a moment 8 of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Monday, June 9th. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, June 7th, 16 was read and approved. On motion, the Senate 17 adjourned. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Without 19 objection, the Journal stands approved as read. 20 Presentation of petitions. 21 Messages from the Assembly. 22 Messages from the Governor. 23 Reports of standing committees. 24 Reports of select committees. 25 Communications and reports from 4940 1 state officers. 2 Motions and resolutions. 3 Senator Marcellino. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 5 Madam President. 6 On page number 46, I offer the 7 following amendments to Calendar Number 125, 8 Senate Print Number 931, and ask that said bill 9 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The amendment is 11 received. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Also, Madam 13 President, can we remove the star from that bill 14 at the request of the sponsor. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The star is 16 removed. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 18 President, on page number 44, I offer the 19 following amendments to Calendar Number 1154, 20 Senate Print Number 5254, and ask that said bill 21 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The amendments 23 are received. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 4941 1 we have some substitutions. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make the 3 substitutions. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 5 will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: On page 14, 7 Senator Spano moves to discharge from the 8 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 2122-A and 9 substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 10 Third Reading 450. 11 On page 16, Senator Goodman moves 12 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 13 Assembly Print Number 6658-A and substitute it 14 for the identical Senate bill, Third Reading 15 517. 16 On page 21, Senator Wright moves 17 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 18 Assembly Print 6510-A and substitute it for the 19 identical Senate bill, Third Reading 637. 20 On page 31, by Senator Lack moves 21 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 22 Assembly Bill 1074-C and substitute it for the 23 identical Senate bill, Third Reading 867. 24 On page 44, Senator Hannon moves 25 to discharge from the Committee on Rules 4942 1 Assembly Bill 7878 and substitute it for the 2 identical Senate bill, Third Reading 1151. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 substitutions are ordered. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 7 ask at this time that we adopt the Resolution 8 Calendar. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 10 President. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: And if we could 12 temporarily lay aside Resolution 1636. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 motion is to adopt the Resolution Calendar 15 excepting Resolution Number 1636. All those in 16 favor signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye".) 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (There was no response.) 20 The Resolution Calendar is 21 adopted. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time if 24 we could take up the non-controversial calendar. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4943 1 Secretary will read the non-controversial 2 calendar. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 174, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1219-A, an 5 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 6 party recommendations. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 679, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4120-A, an 12 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 13 relation to county responsibility for medical 14 assistance payments. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4944 1 841, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 4483-A, an 2 act to amend Chapter 942 of the Laws of 1983 and 3 Chapter 541 of the Laws of 1984, relating to 4 foster family care. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 948, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5176, an 17 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 18 relation to the capacity of foster family 19 boarding homes. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 951, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5223, an 25 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation 4945 1 to court reviews. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1019, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 5231, an 14 act to amend the Highway Law, Environmental 15 Conservation Law, in relation to the filing of 16 certificates. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4946 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1024, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4182-A, an 4 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, in 5 relation to improving the agricultural districts 6 program. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 10 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1037, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5060, an 19 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 20 merging election districts. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the 1st day of August. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 4947 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 2 bill aside at the request of the Minority 3 Leader. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1038, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 6 Assembly Print 7683, an act to amend the 7 Election Law, in relation to registration days. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Secretary will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1050, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 4085, an 20 act to repeal Section 630 of the Business 21 Corporation Law. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 23 the day at the request of the sponsor. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 25 bill aside for the day at the request of the 4948 1 sponsor. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1053, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4335, an 4 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 5 indemnification of City University Community 6 College employees. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1132, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1488, an 19 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 20 to public notification of health hazards. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 23 bill aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1133, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1681-A, an 4949 1 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 2 relation to authorizing out of state 3 recreational vehicle dealers. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1134, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 1828, an act 16 to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 17 increasing the number of County Court judges in 18 the county of Ontario. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside for the day. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1135, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2244, an act 23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law and 24 the Town Law, in relation to rights to practice 25 Forestry Act. 4950 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 3 bill aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1136, by Senator Lachman, Senate Print 2621, an 6 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 7 relation to the possession of an open container 8 in a motor vehicle. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the first day of 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1137, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 2906, an 22 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 23 increasing penalties for criminal solicitation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 4951 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 2 act shall take effect on the first day of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 39. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1138, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3113, an 12 act in relation to authorizing Tier I status for 13 Mary Ann Martin in the New York State and local 14 Employees Retirement System. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 17 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 18 will lay the bill aside at the request of the 19 Acting Minority Leader. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1139, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 3211, an act 22 to amend the Correction Law, in relation to the 23 confinement of persons in the Chemung County 24 Jail. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's a 4952 1 home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 2 will read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1140, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 3414-A, an 13 act to amend the Judiciary Law and the Uniform 14 City Court Act, in relation to creating a new 15 quarter-time judge. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 4953 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1141, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3472, an 3 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 4 relation to the investigation of Workfare 5 participants. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 8 bill aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1142, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3654, an 11 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 12 Law, in relation to retirement of supervising 13 fire inspectors. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 15 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 16 will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4954 1 1143, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3924, an 2 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 3 allowing an 11-year-old person to take a hunting 4 safety course. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1145, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 440... 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Can we 18 get a little order in the chamber, please. It's 19 getting pretty noisy. It's getting difficult to 20 hear the Secretary read the bills. The 21 conversations, can you please take them out of 22 the chamber. The staff, take their places. 23 Senator Paterson, why do you 24 rise? 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 4955 1 are we on Calendar Number 1145? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1145 was 3 just read. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: May we please 5 lay that aside. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read -- excuse me -- lay Calendar 8 Number 1145 aside at the request of the Acting 9 Minority Leader. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1146, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4424, an 12 act legalizing, validating, ratifying and 13 confirming certain acts. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 15 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. The 16 Secretary will read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4956 1 1147, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4697-A, 2 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 3 relation to authorizing a residential parking 4 system in the city of Auburn. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 6 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 7 will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1148, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 4885, an act 18 to permit the reopening of the optional 20-year 19 retirement plan to Dennis Solo. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 21 a home rule message at the desk. The Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4957 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1149, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4917, an 8 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules 9 and the Court of Claims Act. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1150, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5015, an 15 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 16 the community service block grant program. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 Secretary will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 43. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4958 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1151, substituted earlier today, by the Assembly 4 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 7878, an act 5 to amend Chapter 602 of the Laws of 1982 6 amending the Social Services Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1152, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5139, an 19 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 20 relation to clinical practice by faculty members 21 of the State University of New York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 4959 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1153, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5199, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal 10 Procedure Law, in relation to the collection of 11 fines. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 Senator Leichter, did you wish 15 that bill laid aside? 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah, lay it 17 aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 19 bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1155, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5349, an 22 act to amend the Lien Law, in relation to the 23 duration of mechanics' liens. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 4960 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1156, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 5369, 11 an act to amend Chapter 600 of the Laws of 1993, 12 amending the Environmental Conservation Law 13 relating to the management of bear. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 45. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1157, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5379, an 4961 1 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 2 extending the authorization of the county of 3 Tioga. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the negatives. Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 44, nays 2, 14 Senators Dollinger and Gentile recorded in the 15 negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1158, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5394, an 20 act to amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law, 21 in relation to converting uniform gifts to 22 minors. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4962 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 7 is passed. 8 Senator Skelos, that completes 9 the reading of the non-controversial calendar. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 11 believe the Minority has consented to removing 12 the lay aside on Calendar Number 948 by Senator 13 Saland, if we could have the last section read. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 15 Secretary will read the title to Calendar Number 16 948. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 948, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5176, an 19 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 20 relation to the capacity of foster family 21 boarding homes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 23 Secretary will read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 4963 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 6 is passed. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 at this time if we could take up the 10 controversial calendar, regular order. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 12 Secretary will read the controversial calendar, 13 beginning with Calendar Number 174, by Senator 14 Maltese, on page 6. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 17 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the 18 Majority Conference Room. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 20 meeting of the Rules Committee, immediate 21 meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority 22 Conference Room, Room 332. 23 The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 174, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1219-A, an 4964 1 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 2 party recommendations. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Maltese, if you'd wait for just a minute while 6 the members of the Rules Committee depart the 7 chamber, I think it will get quiet enough so 8 that you will be able to give an explanation 9 which has been requested on Calendar Number 174. 10 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 11 the purpose of this bill is to provide that a 12 party recommendation to fill a vacancy for the 13 office of election commissioner be made by 14 county committee or by a committee chosen by the 15 county committee rules as indicated. 16 In addition, it provides that 17 certificates of party recommendation to fill 18 such vacancy shall be filed no later than 45 19 days after the creation of the vacancy. 20 Previously there was no time limit. 21 Currently if a vacancy occurs in 22 the office of election commissioner, the vacancy 23 only may be filled by the full county 24 committee. Especially in the city of New York 25 and the larger counties, this becomes a very 4965 1 cumbersome procedure with, in some cases, 2 thousands of members and in most cases, in most 3 counties, the meetings of the county committee 4 are only held at most once or twice a year. 5 The bill in the Assembly had a 6 variation. It's carried by -- Assemblyman 7 "Denny" Farrell had a variation. They are 8 amending their bill to conform with ours and 9 that will be the final bill which is agreed on 10 -- upon by both houses. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 15 again, we have an Election Law bill of such 16 insignificance that no rater screen could 17 possibly pick it up. 18 I mean, here we have an election 19 system in this state which is an utter disgrace. 20 It doesn't work. It doesn't function. It's an 21 embarrassment and we come up with these bills - 22 and I don't say critically of you, Senator 23 Maltese, because I know there's greater forces 24 at work here -- but a bill that charitably could 25 be said is rearranging the deck chairs as the 4966 1 Titanic is sinking. 2 We ought to get rid of the local 3 boards of elections as they presently exist run 4 by the two dominant parties. Elections are not 5 something that ought to be left to the parties 6 to run. Election is a key essential government 7 function. 8 I put in a bill that would get 9 rid of these politically-operated boards of 10 elections and have us run elections as it's done 11 in many states by a government agency. 12 We've had incidents in this state 13 just in the last few years that are such an 14 embarrassment. In Brooklyn at an election last 15 year -- Senator Maltese, you'll remember -- the 16 machines didn't come to half the districts. 17 That had a real impact on the results of 18 elections as we know in this house. 19 Many such other incidents. I can 20 just say that if an election in a developing 21 country was run the way some of our elections 22 are run here in New York State, people would say 23 there's an absence of democracy. They would 24 want to send foreign monitors to see how the 25 elections are run. 4967 1 So, Senator Maltese, I think it's 2 important that all of us, particularly you as 3 the chair of this committee, take some 4 initiative and some lead to seeing that the 5 elections that we have in this state comport to 6 what are the basic standards of fairness, of 7 efficiency, of democracy. That just doesn't 8 exist presently. 9 So this bill, Senator, sure I can 10 support it but it's meaningless. Let's do 11 something to have an election machinery that 12 works. Let's do something to get rid of the 13 abuses of campaign financing. I mean, nothing 14 is more essential to our democracy than to have 15 properly run and fairly run elections, and we 16 just don't have this in the state. 17 You know, one of the reasons - 18 or a lot of conjecture, why is it that Americans 19 are more and more turned off with government, 20 with politics? Why is there less and less 21 participation in the -- in elections? Well, one 22 reason is because they see a system that's so 23 riddled with abuses that they're really turned 24 off, and understandably. I think we've got an 25 obligation to see that these matters are 4968 1 addressed, and I think it's inexcusable. 2 It's really tragic that this 3 group of people in this chamber, smart people - 4 and all of you know what the problems are 5 because we're all in the system. We've gone 6 through it. We may have benefited at times. We 7 may have been damaged at other times but in our 8 heart we know it's wrong and we ought to do 9 something about it and we ought to take the 10 lead, and let me tell you, if we did, we would 11 find that people would respond to the electoral 12 system as they do not presently for very good 13 reasons. 14 So, Senator Maltese, I can just 15 urge you again and urge all of my colleagues on 16 a non-partisan, bipartisan basis, whatever you 17 want it, let's have fair, official elections in 18 this state, something that we presently don't 19 have. 20 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Maltese. 23 SENATOR MALTESE: Taking the due 24 regard for my good colleague, Senator Leichter 25 -- who I certainly respect and admire his point 4969 1 of view at times, although I disagree a good 2 part of the time -- I think he does not give due 3 recognition to the fact that last year the - 4 one of the most sweeping pieces of legislation 5 in Election Law, certainly in my some 30 years 6 of working in the Election Law both as an 7 insurgent -- so-called insurgent and so-called 8 organization person, not only passed but was 9 signed into law with the full cooperation of 10 both parties in both houses and the Governor, 11 and it was at the instigation of the Governor 12 incorporating many of the suggestions and 13 recommendations made by the so-called "goo-goos" 14 for many, many years and we are seeing the 15 fruits of that in these very days as many party 16 people throughout the city and state circulating 17 petitions and the praise that has come forth 18 from many of the organizations at the ease in 19 comparison to prior years will be nothing 20 compared to what will occur when the filings 21 occur and things like cover sheets which were 22 simply devices, I believe, to throw candidates 23 off the ballot and, in many cases, deprive the 24 voters of an adequate choice are able to be 25 corrected. So I don't think that we should 4970 1 despair like Cassandras at what hasn't been done 2 but should rejoice in what has been done. 3 As far as these specific bills, 4 today's bill, my next bill, the bill from 5 yesterday, those bills have a new spirit of 6 cooperation in both the Assembly and the Senate, 7 the Democrat and Republican and, as I've 8 indicated each time, they are usually at the 9 request of the state board or the city board 10 with the full cooperation of the councils and 11 the chairmen of the committees. 12 So I think that we do have a 13 responsibility to sharpen up the law, to make it 14 more efficient and as for those portions of the 15 law mainly relating, I believe, to campaign 16 financing or campaign contributions and 17 disclosures -- disclosure requirements -- which 18 Senator Leichter, you know, very, very much 19 would like to change -- I think those are 20 targets for us to continue to work on and try to 21 arrive at some amicable situation. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 23 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 24 Senator Dollinger. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 4971 1 Mr. President. 2 I have to follow my colleague 3 from Manhattan, Senator Leichter, and I agree 4 with Senator Maltese. What we did last year was 5 a tremendous thing to do. 6 What, in my opinion, we did is we 7 brought the election laws in New York State from 8 about 1820 up to about 1962. That 140 years 9 that we updated our laws was a marvelous thing 10 to do. The only problem is it's 1997 and we're 11 still 35 years behind the time, and I commend 12 you, Senator Maltese, for the work in getting 13 those arcane little picayune things that we used 14 to throw people off the ballot just like they 15 did in all those other countries at one time, 16 didn't have free elections, just like in the 17 Soviet Union where they used to get 99 percent 18 of the vote and we used to always scoff and say 19 those can't be fair elections and sure enough in 20 New York State we elect 99 percent of the 21 members of the state Legislature every single 22 year and yet we think they're wonderfully fair. 23 I obviously missed my history 24 lesson somewhere along the line but we did come 25 100 years. We updated our laws 100 years. 4972 1 That's a 100-year step. It is properly 2 commended. I new this took some political 3 coalitions to get that done. It's a wonderful 4 thing, but what Senator Leichter is talking 5 about doing is bringing the law from 1962 to 6 1997, to update it to the realities of big 7 money, hard currency that we talked about 8 yesterday -- some of the issues we talked about 9 yesterday, but I'd just caution everybody in 10 this chamber, we cannot fall for the ruse of the 11 magician who says, Look at this hand. Look at 12 this hand. I'm changing the Election Law. I'm 13 eliminating the technical rules that prevent 14 people from getting on the ballots. We 15 eliminated the Board of Estimate from the 16 election laws yesterday. We're doing this which 17 is also a good idea. Look at this. Look at 18 this and in the meantime, at the other hand, 19 we're picking their pocket and perpetrating the 20 kind of election system that we have in this 21 state which just, in my opinion, is simply not 22 fair, not just and doesn't accord with a true 23 vision of democracy. 24 Senator Maltese, I'm going to 25 vote in favor of this bill. I commend you. I 4973 1 encourage you. Believe me, when we show up with 2 an Election Law that's dated 1997 and reflects 3 1997 reality, I will be the first to trumpet 4 that success. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 8 Maltese will yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Maltese, do you yield to a question? The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I was 13 just going to make my initial statement and then 14 be at peace, but some of the things you said and 15 Senator Dollinger have really raised some 16 questions in my mind. 17 One of the most outrageous 18 aspects of the whole election and campaign 19 financing system in the state is that it is 20 almost impossible to get records to find out 21 what has happened. 22 We have a state board of election 23 which is totally non-functional and it was 24 created to be non-functional. If you go in 25 there -- and Senator Dollinger thought that in 4974 1 some respects last year we brought the Election 2 Law up to 1962, but if you go to the state board 3 of election, it's still 1820. One of the steps 4 that everybody said we have to take because it's 5 so necessary and it makes such good common sense 6 is the computerization of records. 7 Senator, where -- the session is 8 drawing to a close -- let's hope at least it is 9 but there's so much work to be done and one of 10 them is this computerization of election -- of 11 campaign finance records. Do you know where 12 that bill is? 13 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 14 there were at the time of the drastic changes, 15 exemplary changes that were put into effect last 16 year competitive bills requiring certain 17 limitations and certain limitations on 18 committees and political parties and the -- this 19 house had and still has a piece of legislation 20 but it all depends in these circumstances. We 21 are a legislative deliberative body and it all 22 depends on whose ox is being gored and the piece 23 of legislation that was backed by a majority of 24 the Republicans in this house, they had certain 25 limitations and certain disclosure requirements 4975 1 placed on unions and placed on situations where 2 the disclosure requirements or contribution 3 limitations would be somewhat equivalent on 4 business groups as they would be on union PACs, 5 and so we had a situation where there was 6 disagreement between the two houses and those 7 bills are still -- are still in -- I believe in 8 committee, although I can check, but I think, in 9 fact, we did pass one of those bills in this 10 house, the bill backed by our Majority Leader, 11 Senator Bruno, and myself, but I think that in 12 talking about the computerization of the board, 13 I think that is something that will occur if not 14 this session, certainly in the near future. It 15 is occurring in many counties across the state. 16 It is occurring as funds are appropriated. I 17 believe that there are discussions going on at 18 this time between the Executive and the 19 Legislative Branch as far as some funding to be 20 put aside for computerization, but I know 21 certainly in the city of New York and in upstate 22 counties, as was indicated at a recent meeting 23 of election commissioners, that they are, in 24 effect, computerizing almost all election 25 records. As for computer records, that 4976 1 discussion is still going on. Whether or not it 2 will be done in this session, I don't know. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 7 Maltese would continue to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Maltese, do you continue to yield? 10 Senator Maltese? 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, isn't 12 it a fact that, if you want to deal with the 13 computerization of records, you have a bill that 14 provides for that computerization? In this 15 house, the Majority attached, as you just said, 16 limitation on what unions can contribute. Maybe 17 that should be done or maybe it shouldn't be 18 done, but it certainly shouldn't be part of this 19 bill. 20 Isn't it -- Senator Maltese, I'm 21 going to be very blunt. Isn't it true that that 22 was attached by the Majority to defeat computer 23 ization? You didn't want computerization. So 24 you attached a provision that you knew the 25 Assembly would never accept and, in this way, 4977 1 you defeated computerization and we have the 2 mess that we presently have in the state board 3 of election? Isn't that true? 4 SENATOR MALTESE: Senator, I'm 5 shocked that even such an allegation could be 6 made. The so-called "poison pill" approach to 7 government is one that I think is equally 8 deplored by both sides of the aisle. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 10 you're right. It's deplored but greatly 11 practiced. 12 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Leichter, excuse me. Are you asking Senator 15 Maltese to yield? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm making a 17 comment. No. I thank my good friend and I just 18 want to say, Senator, I agree with you that the 19 "poison pill" is greatly deplored and very 20 actively practiced. 21 So let me just make that one 22 example and, again, I don't want to make this a 23 partisan thing. As I said yesterday, I don't 24 think there are any saints. I don't think my 25 party is any more praiseworthy or is any more to 4978 1 be blamed than the other party. I think that 2 we've had this system in this state which 3 started well over 100 years ago that elections 4 was really a matter for the political parties to 5 run, and if you get the Republicans and the 6 Democrats, the two parties to watch each other, 7 you're going to end up with a fair elections 8 system. 9 Well, the fact is very often the 10 Republicans and the Democrats have worked 11 together to gang up against third-party, Senator 12 Maltese, against independents and they certainly 13 have not run the system in the public interest. 14 I've called the state board of 15 elections the toothless pussy cat because it is 16 such an embarrassment. Obvious, evident, clear, 17 conceded, admitted violations of law. They do 18 absolutely nothing. 19 Let me tell you -- and I spent 20 some time this year looking through their 21 records, and so on. They accepted for filing by 22 the Suffolk Republican Party, they filed a 23 campaign finance report where they left off the 24 sums. They listed the names but they didn't put 25 down how much they contributed. The state board 4979 1 of elections accepted that. I think you could 2 go in and file a dead rabbit and they would say, 3 okay. They would stamp it, and so on. They 4 would misfile it as they misfile just about 5 everything else. It's awful. It is just 6 awful. We just shouldn't allow this to happen. 7 Now, we may feel, well, you know, 8 there isn't really that much public pressure on 9 us to do anything about it, but I'll tell you 10 what there is. There's growing public cynicism 11 and we ought to be concerned about this, a 12 cynicism about government, many reasons for it 13 but one of them certainly is because people know 14 that our elections are poorly run, unfairly run 15 in many instances, that big money more and more 16 dominates public discourse and public debate and 17 we who work in this field and whether you're a 18 Republican or Democrat -- I have been here many 19 years. I know people work hard. I know people 20 come here with good intentions. They come here 21 conscientiously -- we do try to accomplish 22 something, whether we agree on many issues or 23 disagree on many issues, but all of that is for 24 naught if the public sees an election system 25 that is so flawed and so riddled with abuse as 4980 1 ours is. 2 Let's do something about it. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the negatives and announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48, nays 1, 14 Senator Padavan recorded in the negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 The Secretary will continue to 18 read the controversial calendar. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1037, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5060, an 21 act to amend the Election Law, in relation to 22 merging election districts. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Maltese, an explanation has been requested of 4981 1 Calendar Number 1037. 2 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President, 3 this piece of legislation is at the request of 4 the Election Commissioners Association and the 5 New York State Board of Elections. It is 6 carried in the Assembly by Assemblyman 7 Canestrari and this again is a bill that is - 8 has been agreed upon by the Assembly and the 9 Senate. 10 It takes effect only outside the 11 city of New York because the city of New York 12 has previously -- has previously adopted the 13 same system. 14 The purpose of the bill is to 15 increase the total number of voters permitted to 16 be consolidated for primary special elections. 17 The new technology of digitized polling books 18 allows for easy processing of an increased 19 number of voters. 20 This bill will alleviate the 21 increasing difficulties of finding inspectors to 22 serve. It will enable those boards of elections 23 to consolidate districts that are not very much 24 used and thus be able to utilize less inspection 25 -- inspectors at the polls. 4982 1 It provides that it increases the 2 minimum number of voters who may be consolidated 3 from 100 to 500 and, as I say, it pertains only 4 to counties outside the city of New York and we 5 are advised that it will be significant savings 6 to counties and local municipalities. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 8 any Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 9 (There was no response.) 10 The Secretary will read the last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect on the 1st day of August. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1132, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 1488, an 22 act to amend the Public Health Law, in relation 23 to public notification of health hazards. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 4983 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1135, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2244, an act 11 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law and 12 the Town Law, in relation to the right to 13 practice Forestry Act. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 15 bill aside for the day. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1138, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3113, an 18 act in relation to authorizing Tier I status for 19 Mary Ann Martin in the New York State and local 20 Employees Retirement System. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 22 temporarily. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 24 bill aside temporarily. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4984 1 1141, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3472, an 2 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 3 relation to the investigation of Workfare 4 participants. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 Marchi, an explanation of the bill has been 9 requested. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 This amends the Social Services 13 Law in relation to the investigation of welfare 14 participants assigned to work in the care, 15 custody and supervision of children. 16 This would require that prior to 17 their getting a clearer bill that that person be 18 competent to fulfill the assignment, that the 19 person would be fingerprinted to determine his 20 or her criminal history, that the person would 21 be tested for use of a controlled substance, 22 that the person would be free of communicable 23 diseases. 24 I have had no objections to this 25 and I believe the information came out just 4985 1 yesterday or last night that the county of 2 Albany had adopted identical requirements 3 applicable to the county of Albany. 4 So it would seem to me that 5 certainly we want to favor this to ensure the 6 maximum level of protection to children, that we 7 don't come up with some circumstances that might 8 be deleterious when they're functioning as 9 supervisors or monitoring -- carrying out their 10 functions as a result of the requirements that 11 have been placed in the law. 12 So I would hope that this or some 13 variant of this is part of the law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Paterson. 16 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 17 on this legislation, the need to protect 18 children, particularly situations where we are 19 rendering care and supervision is most paramount 20 and we know that based on a number of stories 21 that we read about in the newspaper and 22 situations that we've observed. 23 If Senator Marchi would yield for 24 a question. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes, Senator, I 4986 1 yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Marchi. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, the 5 concern that some of us have about this 6 legislation is that, in spite of the fact that 7 the need to fingerprint and investigate 8 individuals who are going to be participating in 9 child care deserves to be stated and restated, 10 the fact is that the Workfare system that puts 11 the employee into this situation involves a lack 12 of options. In other words, this would be an 13 area in which an individual might be assigned 14 and then at that point they would also be forced 15 to be fingerprinted. 16 My question is, is the assignment 17 to child care something that is automatic? In 18 other words, is it something where the employee 19 has any choice, because if the employee had an 20 option to work somewhere else but prefers to 21 choose the child care service, then at that 22 point the fingerprinting, I think, would be most 23 appropriate, but what I'm afraid of is forcing a 24 person to work in a particular area and then 25 forcing them to be fingerprinted and 4987 1 investigated when, in fact, other than the fact 2 that they may have been a client of social 3 services, they didn't do anything to deserve 4 being fingerprinted or investigated in the first 5 place. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: We're talking 7 about their eligibility for qualification. I 8 would assume that there is an interest on the 9 part of the applicant to put someone who might 10 be unwilling to comply with the provisions but 11 is available for other work. They may have 12 other objections. Perhaps they feel -- they 13 feel that they are not equipped to handle 14 children and provide the necessary guidance, and 15 I should think that the process should -- would 16 naturally elicit that approach in designating 17 someone to do this. 18 So that I think we're down to 19 people who are not unwilling to embrace it. If 20 they are unwilling, it's -- it's -- aside from 21 the fact -- even if they wanted to be 22 fingerprinted, I would imagine the pool would be 23 those people that would -- you know, the only 24 thing I worry about is that there may be 25 circumstances going way back that would enable 4988 1 them really to clear even some of the obstacles 2 that are here, but I don't think we can overplay 3 -- and that was probably what persuaded the 4 county of Albany toward adopting this very same 5 legislation -- the fear that we're dealing with 6 children, young future adults, future men and 7 women with some hazards that are unnecessary and 8 the pool is large enough, really, to select 9 those who are willing to go through the process. 10 The previous provision -- I was 11 looking at the last provision but any person 12 with a condition prior to the assignment to work 13 involving -- and then that process takes place. 14 I really -- I really think that 15 weighing all the factors -- and I can see 16 circumstances that -- remote, but I believe that 17 we're jeopardizing -- when it's administered on 18 a large scale basis, we are jeopardizing 19 introducing an element that's not very 20 reassuring in the supervision of children. So I 21 would -- and the fact that the county of Albany 22 -- I don't think there's any particular 23 persuasion politically that moved them in that 24 direction except for the same concerns that move 25 us. 4989 1 So I would hope that, Mr. 2 President, this bill prevails and that's about 3 it, Senator. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 9 Senator Marchi. 10 Mr. President, on the bill. I 11 want to thank Senator Marchi for clearing that 12 up. It's certainly his intention to make sure 13 that no one that doesn't care about kids is 14 taking care of children. 15 My recommendation is that perhaps 16 we take a strong look at perhaps amending this 17 bill because I didn't see anything in the 18 language that gives the worker the option as to 19 whether or not they're going to work in the 20 child care area and my concern, therefore, is 21 even stronger for the children than it is for 22 the worker that we not have people who may not 23 like children or they may not have any 24 understanding of how to supervise them, that 25 they not be in that particular area and in New 4990 1 York City, certainly -- there certainly has been 2 a complaint that people are being assigned to 3 areas where they have no experience and also 4 that they have no interest and where it doesn't 5 involve children, we might create that kind of a 6 scenario but certainly when we're talking about 7 caring for children, we would want to think 8 about that, and so I would just suggest that 9 perhaps Senator Marchi consider putting his 10 stated concerns that we just heard into the 11 legislation so that we create some option for 12 the employee. Otherwise, when someone goes on 13 Workfare, they get assigned into the child care 14 field and then subjected to the type of 15 investigation and fingerprinting that they may 16 not have wanted to endure because they may not 17 have wanted to go into that area and it just 18 exposes, in some respects, some information 19 about them that doesn't really mean that they 20 can't work. It just means that they can't work 21 in a certain area which they may not have wanted 22 to do anyway. 23 So it's really just a thought 24 that we would like to contribute to this whole 25 process, a suggestion that perhaps we reconsider 4991 1 this because we really come into some areas of 2 constitutionality when there's coercion to work 3 and then coercion for one to be subjected to the 4 types of investigations and law enforcement 5 procedures that, you know, would be more common 6 to a person who had been arrested or in any way 7 investigated for committing a crime. 8 In the area of children, let me 9 just restate that it would probably be most 10 important to clearly delineate that we want 11 people who would think that this is something 12 they could do and something they could do well. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Would my friend, 17 Senator Marchi, yield to a question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Marchi, do you yield to a question? The Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, we do not 22 have a law, do we, that requires this kind of a 23 check for anybody who works in this area, do 24 we? 25 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 4992 1 SENATOR GOLD: And, Senator, 2 we - 3 SENATOR MARCHI: Not that I am 4 aware of. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. And, 6 Senator, if you'll yield to a question. We 7 don't have any law that requires the criminal 8 background check of people who are in Workfare 9 generally, do we? 10 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, this is 12 my problem with the bill and it's not that much 13 different than Senator Paterson, but I want to 14 -- I want to make sure about it. 15 The bill starts out and says that 16 a person must be competent to fulfill the 17 assignment. Senator, I think that there's no 18 argument with that. That's what this is all 19 about, but what I'm concerned about, number one, 20 anyone could go into this program and say, We 21 want to get a criminal background check on 22 Jones. Call him in and tell him that we're 23 going to assign him into this particular program 24 and he must submit. So I see that as a method 25 of printing people, as Senator Paterson pointed 4993 1 out, but since there's no choice, you could use 2 this as a method to print people who otherwise 3 you would have absolutely no right to print, but 4 the thing which concerns me most, Senator Marchi 5 -- and to some extent this is similar to some 6 of the bills we've had where it's been argued on 7 this floor in the HIV/AIDS area that by doing 8 certain testing, it tells you nothing. I mean, 9 supposing you had an individual who has never 10 been in trouble with the law at all but who 11 really sincerely hates children and, as a matter 12 of fact, that individual might be a college 13 graduate. Might be any one of a million things 14 which on paper qualifies the person. Why do we 15 want to have a situation where we have people, 16 first of all, where we set up tests which may 17 not tell us anything because you can have people 18 who would -- with no criminal record who would 19 be incompetent in the real world in handling 20 children because they don't want to do it and 21 not have this way out that Senator Paterson has 22 been talking about. So that at least we have 23 people in there who, by choice, are making the 24 decision they may like to go into that field. 25 SENATOR MARCHI: In the -- in the 4994 1 broadest possible setting that you said, that 2 could be a case where -- but a certain 3 presumption that they would be operating 4 lawfully. Teachers and teachers' aides now have 5 to go through that process if they're doing that 6 but they're getting out of the picture and 7 returning to people that -- competency certainly 8 if they're alienated by the presence of children 9 -- would not have to go through the rest of it. 10 I would suggest that we proceed 11 with this because it is a matter of delicacy and 12 I don't -- I believe that the Albany legislation 13 is on all fours with the legislation that I 14 introduced. It was introduced incidentally just 15 shortly after we had started the ball rolling on 16 this piece and - 17 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry. 18 SENATOR MARCHI: -- certainly if 19 a variant comes up in conference and the 20 Assembly goes along, I would be available to it, 21 but at this point, just weighing the pros and 22 cons, I have to defer and go on the side of the 23 safety of the children that are affected and I 24 just -- granted, you know, there's an exception 25 to almost any rule that you can possibly 4995 1 conjure, but I think the process as is is 2 adequate. If we have something better to show, 3 we'll attack it, but I - 4 SENATOR GOLD: Let me phrase one 5 direct question, Senator. 6 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 7 SENATOR GOLD: If we're concerned 8 about people who have custody and supervision of 9 children, why don't we demand criminal 10 investigations? Why do we assume that the only 11 people who should have criminal investigations 12 are people who are part of a Workfare program? 13 SENATOR MARCHI: Teachers and 14 teachers' aides who are in charge have that 15 requirement now. A background check has to be 16 included. So I don't see that as a fatal 17 block. We're extending it not on a very 18 widespread basis but just on those circumstances 19 and I wouldn't want it to - 20 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Senator, if 21 you'll yield to - 22 SENATOR MARCHI: If children are 23 involved -- and there may be circumstances in 24 their -- in the points delineated in the bill 25 that might constitute a risk or a hazard for 4996 1 children, I think that's what probably persuaded 2 the Albany County action. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the 4 Senator will yield to a question. 5 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Marchi continues to yield? 8 SENATOR MARCHI: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 Senator continues to yield. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I can 12 respect Albany County and, you know, in this 13 Legislature, Senator, we vote a couple thousand 14 times a year and we don't agree on every issue. 15 It doesn't mean we lose respect for one 16 another. I don't happen to perhaps agree with 17 Albany County. I don't see where the law is, 18 but the point is this. My question is a simple 19 one. This has drug testing. From my 20 understanding, we don't drug test anybody else 21 and what I'm concerned about is the concept of 22 constantly setting up enemies. 23 Now, you are a fair person and 24 you wouldn't do something to set up enemies but 25 the fact is this bill does it. This bill tells 4997 1 you that, if you have anyone who's not on 2 Workfare, we can presume they have no criminal 3 background and we can assume that they are not 4 on drugs but, if they're on Workfare, this says 5 they have to prove they are not on drugs and 6 they're not criminals, and that, Senator Marchi, 7 puts these people as different classes of 8 citizens and the fact that they may need some 9 kind of help doesn't make them a different class 10 of citizen. 11 This is a state where, as of 12 August 1996, we had over 1.1 million people 13 unemployed. 520,000 of those people were not on 14 welfare. About 616,000 are on welfare, which 15 means when we tell our welfare population to go 16 out and get a job, they're standing behind 17 520,000 of our citizens who can't find a job or 18 on welfare. I think we got to stop setting up 19 enemies. 20 These people are in a Workfare 21 program. It doesn't make them criminals. It 22 doesn't make them drug addicts. This law 23 separates them and says that, if you're in that 24 program and you want to work with children, you 25 need that testing, whether you're competent or 4998 1 not, and if you're not in that program, you 2 don't have to have that testing and you may be 3 less competent. 4 I don't argue with the concept of 5 trying to make sure people are competent, and I 6 don't argue with the concept to make sure people 7 are safe, children particularly, but I don't see 8 why, if we're concerned about the children, that 9 the rule isn't aimed at the children in securing 10 them rather than making a different kind of 11 citizen out of somebody on Workfare. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 13 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 14 Senator Marchi, on the bill. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: I wouldn't even 16 mind respectfully to say that these same rules 17 apply to us. We all have to submit, all of us, 18 the whole chamber, I mean, but we are 19 considering the welfare of the children and we 20 just want a continuity under the present 21 auspices or the past auspices moving into this 22 Workfare that the same rigid test be applied and 23 hopefully will inure to the benefit. 24 This is -- I'm not -- certainly I 25 respect your judgment. I respect it as being - 4999 1 you have a genuine concern for the children and 2 you have this broad concept that you've 3 described, and I respect you for that. I have 4 no quarrel, but I feel that those of us who can 5 vote for this will be opting for something that 6 is needed if we're going to entrust thousands, 7 tens of thousands of children to people who 8 perhaps may present problems. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Leichter, why do you rise? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 13 Marchi would yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter. Senator Leichter, I'm not not 16 recognizing you, but a colleague I have overseen 17 here would like -- and is on the list prior to 18 your being recognized. 19 So the Chair would recognize 20 Senator Oppenheimer, who's been very patient in 21 waiting for an opportunity to speak on the 22 bill. 23 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: What a 24 gentleman. I mean, these other gentlemen have 25 been hopping up and I have been very sedate back 5000 1 here. 2 A couple of thoughts come to 3 mind. First of all, the selectivity of drawing 4 out certain groups that need fingerprinting and 5 drug testing, I think is offensive as has been 6 mentioned earlier. I have often thought because 7 we seem to be drug testing or fingerprinting 8 certain industries, certain groups, certain, you 9 know, workers, that it seems to say something 10 about these people, that we require 11 fingerprinting and drug testing for this group. 12 It has occurred to me -- and I 13 offer this as a suggestion -- that perhaps what 14 we ought to be doing in our state is 15 fingerprinting and footprinting all newborns 16 because then we would not be saying this group 17 of people is a lesser group or requires further 18 criminal check or drug testing -- well, that's a 19 separate issue, but the fingerprinting and 20 footprinting done in -- at birth, I think is 21 something that is a value to everyone. First of 22 all, we are now doing it with our youngsters, 23 small children, so that if they get lost, we are 24 able to have some way to track them and find the 25 children, but I do find it offensive that 5001 1 particular groups are singled out and made to 2 feel like they are lesser people or of lesser 3 quality. 4 The other issue I would like to 5 bring up along with this bill -- it's not a part 6 of this bill -- is the concern within the child 7 care field -- the concern within the child care 8 field, that the people we are taking in Workfare 9 and others are not receiving the kind of 10 training that should be mandatory for anyone 11 dealing with young children. 12 We now know after seeing the 13 federal report which came out a month ago how 14 vitally important it is to have maximum 15 stimulation and caring for children up to the 16 age of three and four. To assume that this is 17 knowledge that is simply inborn is absurd. 18 The people within the field are 19 very, very concerned that these child care 20 workers that are coming on-stream are coming on 21 without any background or any training and that 22 this has to be made an integral part and 23 certainly if Workfare is forcing people into the 24 roles of child care providers, there couldn't be 25 anything that is more worrisome because these 5002 1 are not people who even start with a caring and 2 a concern necessarily for children, but even 3 with that caring and concern and love for small 4 children, it is absolutely essential that we 5 have some kind of training and oversight 6 component in the care of our smallest. 7 Thanks. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Leichter. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 11 Marchi would yield, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Marchi, do you yield to a question from Senator 14 Leichter? The Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, would 16 you support a bill that anyone whose work 17 involves the care, custody or supervision of a 18 child be fingerprinted and drug tested? 19 SENATOR MARCHI: I would support 20 a bill, Senator. I would go much further. I 21 believe some sessions ago I even introduced a 22 bill requiring every single person in the United 23 States to be fingerprinted. You could be -- you 24 could be on a highway and they strip you of your 25 credentials and they don't know who you are and 5003 1 they may administer assistance that would be 2 detrimental to you but if we had swift methods 3 of establishing identity -- I don't see anything 4 demeaning. I mean, I was faced with finger 5 printing. I'm certain you were too. There's no 6 -- no sense of hostility in that -- in 7 privileged circumstances of service, most of it 8 of a public nature but not necessarily all of 9 it, that are -- this identity is most important 10 and if part of that is the associated problems 11 that would be revelatory in any decent 12 investigation, I think it's the -- I think it's 13 a permissible limit that we can go to to protect 14 children and that's first and foremost. I mean, 15 we have no adequate substitute here that we're 16 considering, and I hope that if the Assembly 17 takes this up, as I have reason to believe that 18 they may, that if something emerges, I - 19 certainly perhaps a better variant that I have 20 not - 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President. 22 SENATOR MARCHI: -- state my 23 ability will come up but I -- really, I think 24 this is bedrock as far as the safety of the 25 children who are entrusted to the care and 5004 1 custody of these people. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 3 if Senator Marchi will continue to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Marchi, do you continue to yield? The Senator 6 continues to yield. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I'm 8 not -- I'm just exploring ground that Senator 9 Gold, I think rightfully, opened up. If, as I 10 know it is, your concern is the care of 11 children, certainly fingerprinting everybody in 12 the United States has absolutely nothing to do 13 with this. So that's a totally different issue. 14 SENATOR MARCHI: Then we wouldn't 15 be having this discussion. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Excuse me. 17 Let me just finish. Senator Oppenheimer's 18 point, very well made, really doesn't deal with 19 the issue that I think Senator Gold raised which 20 concerns this bill, which is why do you take 21 this one class? If your concern is children, 22 why don't you say that everybody who has the 23 care or custody or supervision of a child has to 24 be drug tested as you provide in this bill 25 people on welfare have to be? Can you answer 5005 1 that to me? 2 SENATOR MARCHI: Unless you feel 3 that if you call in a baby-sitter which is -- I 4 have to go to grandchildren if I have to think 5 of that, that you have the little girl next door 6 that is a teenager and should be drug tested, if 7 she comes in and baby-sits. 8 You know, we can -- the reductio 9 ad absurdum are -- frequently are not 10 impossible. They do happen, but I think this is 11 an important first step, and I hope the Assembly 12 addresses this issue and perhaps they may come 13 up with a better variant. There's no pride of 14 authorship here except that I feel that it does 15 meet a need and I hope that most of you can 16 support it without -- even though I respect your 17 sensitivities as they have been formulated. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 19 just - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Leichter. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Just on the 23 bill. 24 Senator Marchi, I know your 25 concern for children and, in fact, your concern 5006 1 for everybody and the very fair and very 2 compassionate way that you approach it, but I 3 really think in this instance, Senator, you're 4 stigmatizing a group in really a highly 5 offensive manner. 6 If you want to say that for the 7 protection of children, I want anybody who works 8 with children who has their care to be 9 fingerprinted, check their records -- and we do 10 that in some instances, by the way, as you know 11 -- but I also want them checked, drug tested. 12 You want to do it across the board. I may not 13 agree with you, but at least you're not creating 14 invidious distinctions, but if you say there are 15 people on welfare and now they're going to -- as 16 part of their Workfare, they're going to be 17 asked to work with children and these people are 18 more likely to be a threat to children, they're 19 more likely to be drug addicted, I think you're 20 stigmatizing this group and I think very, very 21 unfairly -- and, frankly, I think you would be 22 the last person in this house that would 23 stigmatize any group, and I'm sure that your 24 concern for children prompted you to put in this 25 bill, but I think on examination, Senator, I 5007 1 really think it is offensive. 2 We have people on welfare for all 3 sorts of reasons, good people, honest people, 4 fair people -- yes, there's some people on 5 welfare that are drug addicted as there are 6 people not on welfare who are drug addicted but 7 to say that these people have to go through a 8 scrutiny, a check that nobody else in our 9 society goes through, that, I think, is really 10 offensive. I don't think there's any data that 11 would justify this, and I would strongly urge 12 you to really look at this bill, withdraw it 13 because I don't think anything as far as the 14 protection of children justifies this sort of 15 labeling a group, really branding them in a way 16 that, as a group, you are suspect. We're going 17 to fingerprint you. We're going to check your 18 records. We're going to drug test you because 19 you are people that we can't trust with 20 children. I don't think there's a justification 21 for that. 22 I'm sorry to say this, but I 23 think it's a bill that's offensive. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 5008 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 7 the negatives and announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 9 the negative on Calendar Number 1141 are 10 Senators Gold, Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, 11 Rosado. Ayes 50, nays 5. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Secretary will continue to call 15 the controversial calendar. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1145, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4405, an act 18 authorizing the implementation of a shared 19 service pilot project. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Rath, an explanation has been requested by 23 Senator Paterson. 24 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, 25 this bill puts in place a pilot project which, 5009 1 to my mind, seeing as I'm the prime sponsor of 2 the bill, obviously I think this is one of the 3 answers that we are going to be able to provide 4 to the property taxpayers of New York State. 5 The property tax issue has been a 6 number one issue not only of the Governor's, the 7 Senate's, the Assembly, there are very few that 8 don't have that at the top of their priority 9 list and what's happened in New York State is we 10 have a myriad of small governments that are 11 taxing and duplicating, taxing and duplicating 12 and we found last year, as we started looking at 13 governance projects among municipalities, that 14 there were many, many areas where the 15 municipalities could share services and save 16 dollars. 17 It came to my attention, however, 18 that many of the dollars that we spend, of 19 course, are in the school districts and so the 20 question then was can we get school districts 21 and municipalities to share services, and so I 22 instituted a pilot project in the 60th District 23 which has been extraordinary successful, towns 24 and school districts sharing. If you're 25 interested in some of the examples as to how 5010 1 much they saved the taxpayer, what the cost of 2 the projects were -- and let me be clear that it 3 is a pilot project in my district and the 4 $20,000, which was the upper amount available to 5 the municipalities and school districts that 6 share it, the upper limit was $20,000. Those 7 $20,000 were not to be used for program studies. 8 They were to be used for implementation, moving 9 forward in hard kinds of activities that both 10 would have had to do, like synthetic natural gas 11 station, rather than build two, build one, that 12 kind of project. 13 So as we have been successful in 14 the 60th District, I am hopeful that you all 15 will agree with me that this project should move 16 statewide on a pilot. We do have Assembly 17 sponsors who are extremely enthusiastic about 18 the bill, and I urge your support. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 22 I have a couple of questions, if Senator Rath 23 would yield. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Rath, do you yield to a question from Senator 5011 1 Paterson? 2 SENATOR RATH: Surely. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, is 6 the granting procedure extended to programs that 7 are already in existence, or do they have to be 8 new programs to fall under this designation? 9 SENATOR RATH: One of the 10 questions that we were asked early on, as long 11 as a school and a municipality -- and we limited 12 it to towns because I go across counties in my 13 district, so we didn't get to counties, but our 14 opinion -- and we were moving, and I can't say 15 it was informally because we worked with Senator 16 Sheffer in the governance project at UB, estab 17 lished a small council that made the decisions 18 about who -- how the grants would flow and also 19 provided the credibility on evaluating how many 20 tax dollars were saved. We determined that, 21 yes, they would be eligible as long as it was a 22 school and a municipality. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. 25 Thank Senator Rath. 5012 1 My final question relates to the 2 interaction between the municipalities and the 3 school boards. I see that there has to be a 4 consultation between the school board and the 5 municipality. What if two separate 6 municipalities were endeavoring to put forth a 7 program or perhaps even two school districts, 8 would they be eligible? 9 SENATOR RATH: What we found, 10 Senator Paterson, was that as long as we kept 11 the schools and the municipalities talking with 12 each other -- and they could have two or three 13 school districts in two or three towns. In 14 fact, one came to us on the first round of 15 grants and was ineligible because it wasn't 16 broad based enough. It was -- two school 17 districts wanted to put something together and 18 they didn't have a town in it. So what happened 19 is we moved forward -- or they moved forward, 20 went back to the drawing board, brought in a 21 town, a village and another school district 22 because it was a large town of Amherst which 23 encompasses several school districts and so what 24 they did is they got the town of Amherst in it, 25 several school districts and the village of 5013 1 Williamsville, and so the answer to your 2 question is yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Paterson. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 6 if Senator Rath would yield for one last 7 question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 Senator continues to yield. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: In New York 11 City, for instance, because it is a city, would 12 this legislation allow New York City, for 13 instance, to consult with a school district in 14 Nassau County with the desire to put forth a 15 program? 16 SENATOR RATH: Some of the 17 details would be worked out by the council that 18 would be established with the chairman of the 19 Local Governments Committee in the Assembly or 20 their designee and myself or my designee plus 21 appropriate appointments from the Senate, the 22 Assembly and the Governor to work out details 23 like that, Senator. I see every possibility of 24 where there's duplication and if there's 25 duplication between the city of New York and 5014 1 Nassau County, I would think that they could 2 certainly talk with each other. There are no 3 jurisdictional boundary lines that are talked 4 about in the bill, and I think that the reason 5 for a pilot project in the state would be to 6 show forth creative and innovative solutions to 7 what we now have as overlapping taxing 8 jurisdictions which are causing property taxes 9 in the state of New York, as you know, to remain 10 high. 11 The goal of the bill is to 12 stabilize or reduce property taxes and the 13 steering committee or council, I guess we call 14 it, that would be established would have as 15 their prime responsibility to show us the 16 savings and in that popular movie lately, I 17 guess it was Jerry whatever, "Show me the 18 money", that's what we want. We want to see the 19 money that's saved for the property tax. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 23 Senator Rath. 24 Mr. President, on the bill. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5015 1 Paterson, on the bill. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: There is just 3 the concern that I have that there doesn't 4 appear to be any money in the budget for this, 5 but the answers to my questions were quite 6 satisfactory. The program seems to be fine. I 7 just -- with this admonition. I hope that the 8 budget will allow for the resources to fund it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 10 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 11 (There was no response.) 12 Hearing none, the Secretary will 13 read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1149, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print Number 24 4917, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law and 25 Rules, in relation to prisoner litigation 5016 1 reform. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Nozzolio, an explanation has been requested of 5 Calendar Number 1149, explanation requested by 6 the Deputy Minority Leader, Senator Paterson. 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 8 President. 9 This bill establishes a filing 10 fee in the Court of Claims with provisions for 11 partial payment for the indigent, in an effort 12 to ensure equity for those who are filing civil 13 litigation in our state courts for claims 14 against the taxpayers. 15 This filing fee and requirement 16 of exhaustion of administrative remedies are 17 processes and procedures which every citizen in 18 this state must proceed under when the measure 19 -- when a measure is brought to civil litiga 20 tion. We're asking for actually establishing 21 the same type of process for prison inmates 22 which would drastically reduce costs for those 23 inmates for bringing their claim as opposed to 24 private citizens who must pay a significantly 25 higher fee. We're asking for a fee to be 5017 1 established through this legislation. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Waldon. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Thanks very 5 much, Mr. President. 6 Would the gentleman yield to a 7 question or two? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would 9 Senator Nozzolio yield? 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 11 President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 yields. 14 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 15 Nozzolio, if I as a private citizen outside the 16 prison, non-prisoner, desires to bring an 17 action, is it your understanding that I would 18 have to withstand the costs of that action? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 20 if Senator Waldon wishes to sue the taxpayers of 21 the state in the Court of Claims, Senator Waldon 22 would have to pay a $175 filing fee as would 23 every other citizen in this state. This bill 24 requires a $50 filing fee for inmates. Again, 25 Senator, non-prisoner litigants like yourself 5018 1 would be paying $175. We're asking inmates who 2 bring these suits to pay $50. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 4 would the Senator continue to yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Nozzolio continue to yield? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 continues to yield. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I don't 12 want to burden you with a lot of unnecessary 13 rhetoric, but in order to make this point, I 14 have to pursue this course of action. We've 15 been down this road before, so pardon me if you 16 will for traveling that same journey, but to 17 make the points that I need to make regarding 18 this proposal, I must do this. 19 Will you please tell us if you 20 know what the normal amount of money earned on a 21 daily basis is by those prisoners who have jobs? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, you 23 asking me the normal amount of average wage 24 earned by a laborer in this state? Are you 25 asking me another question? 5019 1 SENATOR WALDON: By prisoners who 2 have jobs, to your knowledge, what is the amount 3 of money they normally earn on a daily basis? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Inmates who 5 are working, Senator -- again, we talked about 6 this just last week. Inmates who are working in 7 this state, and all inmates are not required to 8 work -- I'd like to have a bill that's before 9 you that would require inmates to work -- but 10 those inmates who do have initiative make up to 11 $5 per day. Of course, that's above their - 12 the other cost of meals, cost of housing, cost 13 of cable television, and the like, that inmates 14 get free benefits there, other things that 15 inmates receive. Those who are working receive 16 a wage of up to $5 per day. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 18 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 continues to yield. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. Thank you, Senator Nozzolio. 25 Senator, those who do not have 5020 1 jobs, for example, some of the prisoners are ill 2 and unable to work, some choose not to work. Do 3 they have less rights under this nation's rule 4 of law concept than those who have jobs, who are 5 all - 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 7 those who choose not to work for whatever reason 8 vote it away. That doesn't mean they don't have 9 income from outside sources. Their family may 10 have income. What this measure does is say that 11 those inmates, like Chaka Zulu, who is in jail 12 for murder and with weapons possession, who has 13 filed 347 lawsuits so far -- name Chaka Zulu - 14 or Douglas Lee, murder and attempted arson, who 15 filed 216 lawsuits, Henry Latham, in for sexual 16 abuse and attempted sodomy, 126 lawsuits, Kevin 17 Alleyne for robbery, Anthony Gill for 18 manslaughter and stolen property, Jory Lawrence 19 for rape and sodomy, all those inmates who are 20 now filing hundreds and hundreds of lawsuits, 21 paying no fee whatsoever to access the court 22 system, we're focusing on those inmates who are 23 obviously abusing the system. 24 Now, those who may have a 25 legitimate civil grievance -- civil grievance - 5021 1 I should underscore this measure does not apply 2 to any type of litigation that results from an 3 individual's incarceration or their conviction 4 or their appeal for that conviction. We're 5 talking only civil litigation here. When these 6 inmates access the court, we're saying you need 7 to pay a filing fee if you have the money, those 8 who are determined to have a claim, ensuring 9 that inmates -- and I think that this is the 10 essence of your question, Senator -- ensuring 11 that those who are -- those inmates who have a 12 meritorious claim should not be denied the right 13 to bring such action due to the lack of 14 inability to pay a filing fee. 15 I think, Senator, may I interpret 16 that as the essence of your question. Those 17 inmates who have not the ability to pay, what 18 would happen, that what we're saying is that 19 those who do not have the money in their 20 account, those that do not have those resources, 21 that there will be efforts as outlined by this 22 legislation to deal with indigence and there 23 will be a system so that those would not be 24 paying, those who do not have those funds and 25 are determined indigent, do not have to pay the 5022 1 fee. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 3 would the gentleman continue to yield? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 8 continues to yield. 9 SENATOR WALDON: As I understand 10 what you said to this moment, Senator, then this 11 applies to only those inmates who file most of 12 the suits. Your interest and emphasis seems to 13 be only on those who file multiple suits, so is 14 this proposal only for those who file multiple 15 suits? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, Senator, 17 this doesn't deal with -- certainly our concern 18 is with the -- those who are abusing the court 19 system in an obvious fashion, and I could detail 20 for you those types of cases that are so 21 egregious that they would make your hair stand 22 on end. Matter of fact, one of the cases was 23 for a bad haircut that an inmate decided the 24 haircut that he received at the prison barber 25 shop gave him a headache, so he decided to 5023 1 access the courts at your expense and the 2 expense of all the taxpayers of the state, 3 access the court without a filing fee to screw 4 the taxpayers because of his bad haircut. 5 Now, Senator, that's the type of 6 litigation we're talking about here. That's the 7 type of essence of decision to put up a filing 8 fee because very clearly those inmates who are 9 engaging in a hobby -- you can't play golf in 10 prison. You can do a lot of other things, bowl, 11 some prisons actually have bowling alleys. You 12 can watch color cable TV. You can do a lot of 13 things, but some of inmates decide that this is 14 their sport, this is their recreation, and 15 they're doing it at the taxpayers' expense. 16 We're trying to say to those 17 recreational claimants, It's time to stop. 18 Let's have a filing fee; let's put it on the 19 books. Let's charge those inmates for this type 20 of litigation and that's why we're before us 21 today with this very sensible approach, Senator, 22 to solving the problem. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Waldon. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Senator continue 5024 1 to yield? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 5 President. Senator continues to yield. 6 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 7 Nozzolio, do you have any figures before us that 8 you can show to those in the chamber of how many 9 suits that are filed versus how many of those 10 are adjudged frivolous of those that are filed? 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, the 12 Attorney General has a report that he has issued 13 that indicates approximately 95 percent of all 14 inmate suits are eventually dismissed by the 15 courts. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 17 gentleman continue to yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 continues to yield. 24 SENATOR WALDON: In that number, 25 was there a famous or infamous case of the 5025 1 peanut butter case. Are you familiar with that 2 case? Was it also in the report the beige 3 versus the white towel, and was it also in that 4 report the case of the salad bar claim; are you 5 familiar with those? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Well, Senator, 7 is that the case where the cop killer sued for 4 8 million dollars because the prisoner -- because 9 the prison allegedly served soapy milk; is that 10 the case you're talking about? Is that the - 11 SENATOR WALDON: I'm talking 12 about -- (Unintelligible talking over exchange.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 14 Gentlemen! Gentlemen! Please, we can't hear 15 the phone. Senator Waldon, if you would just 16 give Senator Nozzolio an opportunity to respond 17 I'd appreciate it, and then if you have another 18 question you want to ask, that's fine. 19 SENATOR WALDON: I apologize. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: O.K. 21 Senator Nozzolio, would you finish with your 22 answer? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Senator. 24 I just got some advice from my counsel, and 25 yes. 5026 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Waldon, you asking him to continue to yield? 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator, 6 do you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 continues to yield. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Just for the 11 record, I asked about the peanut butter case 12 which was a case where someone ordered peanut 13 butter. The wrong peanut butter was delivered. 14 He asked that it be taken away and the right 15 peanut butter be returned; the wrong peanut 16 butter was taken away, the right peanut butter 17 was not returned but because of his making an 18 issue he never received the right peanut butter 19 and I believe he was transferred that very same 20 night. Somebody decided that, for the fact - 21 the mere fact that he brought up the issue of 22 having the wrong peanut butter delivered merited 23 transfer. 24 In regard to the towels, it was a 25 situation where a family had sent a gift to a 5027 1 prisoner and the gift was confiscated, and he 2 made an issue about the gift being confiscated 3 and he -- and the result was that he was 4 punished. 5 In regard to the salad bar claim 6 it wasn't just the salad, it was the rodents and 7 the infestation in the food from the rodents and 8 the fact that the prisoner made an allegation 9 about that, he ended up being punished. 10 Did these matters appear in the 11 Attorney General's report? 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 13 in response to that, I think it was a question. 14 Yes, Senator, the peanut butter case you 15 referred to is in the Attorney General's report 16 and the wrong peanut butter was either crunchy 17 or smooth, I'm not sure which one, but the 18 inmate decided he didn't like crunchy or smooth, 19 I'm not familiar with all the facts, but it was 20 either crunchy or smooth, Senator, and the 21 inmate decided to sue because he was given the 22 wrong peanut butter. 23 Senator, what we're talking about 24 is the 300 suits out of 301 that are not 25 meritorious, those, whether it's chunky or 5028 1 smooth, whether it's a gift from home which in 2 many cases can be drugs, they may receive 3 contraband, such and the like, with those 4 meritorious claims, Senator, the courts can make 5 that determination. 6 What we're saying here simply is, 7 in order for an inmate to access the courts, 8 they should pay less than one-third of what 9 every other citizen must pay in this state to 10 get the same type of access to the same courts. 11 SENATOR WALDON: On the bill, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Waldon, on the bill. 15 SENATOR WALDON: It may appear 16 that this is an exercise in futility when I ask 17 my colleagues questions about these very real 18 issues, but I assure you I would not waste your 19 time or the time of the people of the state of 20 New York with frivolous activities. I believe 21 this is the nature of law, that the rule of law 22 is paramount, that if the President of the 23 United States can be forced to respond to his 24 behavior prior to his presidency, and he is the 25 highest elected official in this nation, if he 5029 1 is subject to the scrutiny of the law, so that 2 there will be an equal and level playing field 3 for all the citizens of this great nation, then 4 those who are at the lowest rung of the socio 5 economic ladder should also have a right when 6 they have a proper grievance for it to be 7 heard. 8 It wasn't about chunky peanut 9 butter or smooth peanut butter. It was about 10 whether or not someone who has a valid grievance 11 has a right to be heard even in that enclosed, 12 totally controlled environment that is a 13 prison. Obviously this prisoner did not. He 14 paid for, with the little money that he had, the 15 peanut butter. He had his peanut butter taken 16 away, and this may cause some of you to chuckle 17 but, when you are doing hard time, peanut butter 18 may make the difference. The peanut butter was 19 confiscated. The right peanut butter was not 20 returned and because he bitched, he was removed 21 and transferred that night from the prison that 22 he was in to another. 23 Is that fair? Is that the proper 24 grievance procedure? Should someone have that 25 kind of control over another one's life where 5030 1 there is no opportunity to be heard? I think 2 not. 3 I think for us to require that 4 they pay the fee is ludicrous -- is ludicrous. 5 If you want to require them to pay the fee, 6 let's raise the salaries. If you want to 7 require them to pay the fee let's ensure that 8 they have a proper form and forum for their 9 grievances. Fascism works in other places. It 10 works very well. I don't believe we should 11 permit Fascism to function that well in this 12 nation, and whether or not we want to recognize 13 it or not, we do have a police state that is so 14 in control of our lives if we are not bordering 15 on Fascism, we're certainly tinkering with it. 16 I would urge my colleagues to 17 vote against this. I would urge my colleagues 18 to recognize that this is a nation of law. I 19 would urge my colleagues to recognize that the 20 rule of law has always been paramount in America 21 and that we should subscribe to those things 22 which absolutely and unequivocally promote the 23 rule of law in this nation. 24 This approach does not. It 25 fails. It is flawed, and I would encourage 5031 1 everyone to vote no on this despite the 2 protestations of my colleague on the other side 3 of the aisle. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Montgomery. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 8 President. I wonder if Senator Nozzolio will 9 yield for a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Nozzolio, do you yield for a question from 12 Senator Montgomery? 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 15 Senator Nozzolio. 16 Senator Nozzolio, there is -- I 17 have a memo in front of me from the Prisoners' 18 Legal Services, and they discuss in one 19 paragraph the problem with how the Attorney 20 General actually counts the cases. It seems 21 that prior to a case actually being processed, 22 there is a notice of intent to sue the state, 23 but there are a large majority of these notices 24 that die at that level, that they really are not 25 pursued any further, but nonetheless the 5032 1 Attorney General counts those notices as if they 2 were actual filings to go into a full-fledged 3 lawsuit. 4 Is that what you're actually 5 counting as -- as the large number of claims or 6 lawsuits by inmates? Is that the number that 7 we're using that you are perhaps using and that 8 the Attorney General is using, all of the 9 notices and, in addition, those -- the factual 10 lawsuits themselves? 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 12 Senator, yes, that may be the methodology used 13 for counting those. The course is the 14 preparation to defend the cases depending on 15 where it is in the litigation process, but 16 certainly the Attorney General being put on 17 notice for claim does require some preparation. 18 What we're saying, though, is every one of those 19 claims under this bill certainly could be 20 brought. We're not trying to refuse anybody to 21 bring their claim. What we're saying is that 22 those claims should be brought at one-third the 23 cost of what it would cost anyone else to bring 24 a claim, and I should add to Senator Waldon's 25 question, comments regarding the President of 5033 1 the United States issue, I understand the 2 litigants paid their filing fees, Senator. 3 What we're saying is that the 4 inmates have the right to sue here. There only 5 -- there is a cost process though, a cost 6 factor when you access the court -- clerk time, 7 filing costs. What we're saying simply is 8 inmates should be paying part of that cost, not 9 all of it, not anywhere near what the average 10 citizen pays, just simply a fee. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator, it 12 sounds like this probably is an inflation of the 13 actual problem based on the way the Attorney 14 General does the counting. 15 Now, the other issue that is 16 raised which I would like to ask you if you're 17 familiar with is the administrative process that 18 DOCS has for settling disputes within -- within 19 the system. Is it the case that this particular 20 process is not effective, does not work, and, 21 therefore, is not what the inmates view as a 22 legitimate response to any of their -- their 23 concerns and grievances? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, it's 25 an excellent question, in my view, but I believe 5034 1 that many inmates are circumventing that process 2 for a variety of reasons. I can only speculate 3 what those reasons are, but there is a lengthy 4 process. What most inmates are saying now 5 they're not even going to go through regardless 6 of merit. I guess there's probably a suspicion 7 that they are going through the same agency. 8 However, if every citizen had to bring his case, 9 the first thing the judge would say is has the 10 litigant, the claimant, exhausted their 11 administrative remedy, and what we're saying is 12 that the inmate needs to exhaust his 13 administrative remedies first before they bring 14 a case, that I am holding the lengthy process 15 and procedures that do exist, but inmates are 16 not totally availing themselves of them. I 17 think likely if some did, some would get relief; 18 if more did, maybe they would get relief. 19 Senator, I also wanted to add 20 just very quickly that those claims that are 21 brought and are successful, the inmate's filing 22 fee is returned, so that those, in a sense, are 23 saying that if there is a valid claim here that 24 makes sense, that the courts deem to be merit 25 orious, we're saying for that inmate's claim 5035 1 that's successful, their filing fee is 2 returned. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Montgomery. 5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 6 President, just one last issue that I'd like to 7 raise with Senator Nozzolio. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? Senator 10 Nozzolio. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 continues to yield. 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 15 Nozzolio, there needs to be an agreement that 16 there is a need for some streamlining and some 17 improvement in the process, the internal 18 process, and I'm just wondering if, since you 19 are in this legislation sending the inmates back 20 to that process and forcing them to -- to go 21 through that before they are able to file a 22 lawsuit, then it seems to me that we need to 23 address that issue, the problem related to the 24 administrative process internally first before 25 you require people to try and address their 5036 1 grievances through that. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Well, your 3 comments make sense to me, and I certainly would 4 encourage the process to be streamlined, if 5 there are kinks in them to iron them out if we 6 required inmates to use it. Right now it would 7 be a waste of energy and time to perfect the 8 process -- and no process can be perfect if it's 9 human, but certainly I would fight hard to iron 10 out wrinkles that exist in the process if there 11 was a similar requirement that inmates use it, 12 that if this bill passed I would be very -- if 13 that comes passed and signed into law, I would 14 very much work with you and every other Senator 15 to ensure that process is perfected, but right 16 now we're not requiring inmates to use the 17 process. Most are circumventing it. 18 To focus on a process without the 19 requirement that the inmates use it, I think, 20 would be an exercise in wasted effort. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Montgomery. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Briefly on 25 the legislation, Mr. President. 5037 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Montgomery, on the bill. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I believe 4 that Senator Nozzolio is -- I appreciate what 5 he's trying to do to save the state money by 6 eliminating frivolous lawsuits by inmates, but I 7 have two questions regarding that premise. One 8 is that there is, in fact, this large number of 9 frivolous lawsuits. Given the fact that, as he 10 admits and as the -- the memo that I have 11 indicates that the way that they're counted is 12 not exactly forthcoming in terms of the -- the 13 factual number that are filed and become active 14 lawsuits. 15 The second concern that I have 16 about this is that we're sort of jumping the 17 gun, if you will, by forcing people to go 18 through a process which we agree -- Senator 19 Nozzolio agrees that is far from being adequate 20 as a means of resolving grievances that inmates 21 have internally. So it seems to me that it 22 makes more sense, and it's a fairer process if 23 we would address that internal mechanism first. 24 I believe that we -- if you do that, you would 25 see a reduction in the number of notices to the 5038 1 Attorney General, and thereby accomplishing what 2 you intend to do without penalizing or making it 3 impossible for those inmates who do have 4 legitimate grievances to be able to go into the 5 court process, and certainly if you don't do it, 6 if you do it this way I'm afraid that the only 7 results will be that you'll have the same 8 backlog at the level of the administrative 9 process and we will not have accomplished much 10 except a build-up of the kind of hostility and 11 frustration that puts the system -- puts 12 pressure on the system, i.e., creating an 13 atmosphere of hate or possible acting out and 14 endangering the correctional staff and what have 15 you. 16 So I hope that my colleagues will 17 look carefully at the memo that has been 18 provided for us by Prisoners' Legal Services. I 19 think it makes sense. They certainly are not 20 opposed to having some means of addressing this 21 issue that Senator Nozzolio has raised, but 22 certainly not in the way that he's raised it 23 because it's not going to be -- going to be 24 productive in what you intend to accomplish. 25 Thank you, Mr. President. 5039 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Any other 2 Senator wishing to speak on the bill? Hearing 3 none, the Secretary will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect on the first day of 6 January. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 11 the negatives and announce the results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 13 the negative on Calendar Number 1149 Senators 14 Connor, Gold, Leichter, Montgomery, Paterson, 15 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 50, nays 7. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Smith, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, I 20 ask unanimous consent to be recorded in the 21 negative on Calendar Number 1141. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 23 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Smith 24 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 25 Number 1141. 5040 1 Secretary will continue to read 2 the controversial calendar. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1153, by Senator Tully, Senate Print 5199, an 5 act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal 6 Procedure Law, in relation to the collection of 7 fines. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 11 act shall take effect on the first day of 12 September. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 18 is passed. 19 Senator Holland. 20 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 21 can we return to Senator Bruno's bill, 1138. 22 Senator Volker is going to answer any questions. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation 24 on that bill. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: All 5041 1 right. Secretary will read Calendar Number 2 1138, by Senator Bruno. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1138, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 3113, an 5 act in relation to authorizing Tier I status for 6 Mary Ann Martin in the New York State and the 7 local employees' retirement system. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Volker, Senator Dollinger has requested an 10 explanation of the bill. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, obviously 12 I will not be able to do this nearly as capably 13 as the Majority Leader, who is busy trying to 14 straighten out New York City and rent stuff, so 15 he's asked me to take a look at this. 16 Now, now! At any rate, as I 17 understand this bill, it involves a person by 18 the name of Mrs. Mary Ann Martin, who is with 19 the Social Services Department in Rensselaer 20 County, and the story is that Mrs. Martin was 21 offered a maternity leave in 1971 for a period 22 from 1971 to 1972. She -- her last pay date was 23 actually '71. 24 In 1972, she officially resigned, 25 then five years later, rejoined the system, I 5042 1 believe in 1977. Now, when she applied to the 2 retirement system, the retirement system said to 3 her, We will calculate you as a Tier III rather 4 than as a Tier I, because we consider your 5 termination date to be 1971 rather than 1972. 6 As a result, you'd be six years instead of five 7 and, therefore, technically you are not 8 available for Tier I. 9 What this bill would do, and it 10 is a home rule request from the Rensselaer 11 County Legislature, with both a resolution and a 12 home rule message that requests that she be 13 restored to the Tier I status. The bill would 14 cost the county of Rensselaer $31,000, and the 15 state of New York $19,000, and that is the 16 proposal. 17 By the way, just so as to make it 18 clear, she did, under the 19... was it '92, 19 Trunzo Law, if I'm not mistaken, she made an 20 application (unintelligible) to that 21 administrative panel and the administrative 22 panel made a ruling that, although they 23 sympathized with her, so forth and so on, they 24 ruled her as not available for Tier I because 25 they said the policy of the retirement people is 5043 1 that rather than the time that she finished her 2 maternity leave, it would be the actual time 3 that she was paid her last paycheck, and she 4 said, If I had known that I could have worked 5 three days in 1972 and then be eligible, but 6 because of that ruling she was not eligible. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Dollinger. 10 SENATOR GOLD: No. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 12 Dollinger has the floor. Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I'm always reminded of that Mel 16 Allen line about beware of the danger of 17 pinch-hitters, so I appreciate Senator Volker 18 standing up and taking questions on this. 19 Senator, you've answered part of 20 the question. She did utilize the 21 administrative procedure that we created? 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, yes. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And they 24 ruled that she didn't have service in 1992 -- or 25 in 1972, because even though she was on 5044 1 maternity leave she wasn't paid for that 2 maternity leave? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: That's right. 4 In other words, her last actual pay date was in 5 1971. She took the maternity leave and then 6 formally resigned during 1972, so that she came 7 back within five years of that resignation date 8 so she was O.K. there, but when the -- when the 9 ruling came from the retirement bureau, it said 10 even though you came back within five years of 11 the time that you took your maternity leave - 12 in other words, she terminated her maternity 13 leave -- they considered it six years because 14 they calculated back to the time that she 15 actually got her last paycheck in 1971 and her 16 argument was, Well, I took the maternity leave 17 and it was my understanding that that tolled my 18 time that I had as far as the five-year period 19 for the break in my service, and, therefore, I 20 should have been -- I should have been able to 21 continue to get my Tier I status. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: M-m h-m-m. 23 Mr. President, on the bill. 24 I -- I appreciate Senator 25 Volker's lucid explanation. I -- I rise today 5045 1 because I -- I'm concerned about, and I think as 2 many of the bills that are reflected in this 3 chamber are, about the issue of child birth as a 4 discontinuance in service and the effect that 5 that has on many women, literally thousands of 6 women who left the system in a period of time 7 when it was undergoing substantial changes 8 because of the financial plight of this state in 9 the mid-'70s who left to have children, lost 10 their Tier I status, lost their Tier II status, 11 ran into exactly the same problem that Mary Ann 12 Martin ran into, which was left for a period of 13 time for child birth reasons and maternity 14 reasons to raise our children. We got what was 15 either incomplete or inaccurate advice from the 16 local employer who said, Don't worry, the day of 17 your termination will be the last day of 18 maternity leave. When you resign, then you 19 resign and take your time off to raise your 20 children. This has created a terrible problem 21 for the administrative board that Senator Volker 22 mentioned that Senator Trunzo's legislation, I 23 believe in '93, gave us. 24 There are a number of bills that 25 are before the house that have been in this 5046 1 house. One is Senator Lack carries a bill which 2 would require retroactive Tier I membership and 3 better tier benefits to those who take maternity 4 leave. Senator Farley carries a bill which is 5 also introduced in the other house by Senator - 6 or the Assembly Judiciary Chairman Assembly 7 woman Weinstein, which would grant retroactive 8 Tier I status to teachers, just teachers, but to 9 all other employees in the state who left 10 employment for child birth and later returned 11 from maternity service. 12 I would like Senator Volker or 13 Senator Bruno, or whoever would read this 14 transcript, to take a message back to him to 15 bring those bills forward. I know they're 16 expensive, Senator, and I'm not going to deny 17 that this would put a very significant expense 18 on local communities, but if we believe that 19 women who left for child bearing reasons at a 20 time when the pension system went through 21 dramatic changes, as Senator Volker I'm sure 22 knows, in the period of 1970 through 1980 we 23 went through two or three tiers and we changed 24 the benefits and we did that for the financial 25 health of this state, but what we did is we 5047 1 punished women who took time off for child 2 bearing during that period of time, and unfairly 3 so, in my opinion. 4 I'm going to vote in favor of 5 this bill, but I would just urge and I know, 6 Senator Volker, you have great sympathy with us, 7 I'm sure Senator Bruno does, that we look at a 8 way to rectify this wrong and where we have 9 inadvertently punished women for child bearing 10 and this kind of relief, perhaps what we should 11 do is give greater guidance to the 12 administrative board that Senator Trunzo's 13 legislation set up and give them greater 14 guidance, give them greater leeway so we don't 15 have to deal with these on an individual basis, 16 give them the leeway to make the right decisions 17 in behalf of women like Mary Ann Martin, and I 18 would just add that I remain concerned about the 19 notion that the only people who actually get 20 here with a bill like this -- and I don't say 21 this in any way of derogation of Mrs. Martin or 22 Ms. Martin -- but those who have political 23 favors who are able to go to their local 24 communities, get the Rensselaer County 25 Legislature, the Board of Supervisors, to back 5048 1 this and then it shows up on our desk through 2 the Majority Leader or some other Senator, and 3 that kind of appearance of partiality I don't 4 think bodes well for the whole system. 5 So I would encourage us to look 6 at Senator Farley's bill, look at Senator Lack's 7 bill, and bring this issue to the floor because 8 I believe that, in the transition of pension 9 systems in the 1970s and early 1980s, we 10 inadvertently punished women for child bearing 11 and that shouldn't have happened. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read the last section. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Gold. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 18 much. 19 Mr. President, I was very 20 delighted when this Legislature passed the 21 Trunzo bill, and I think that Senator Leichter 22 and I helped in our own small way with making it 23 into law. 24 Now, we are being told that as 25 part of the law there are people who don't like 5049 1 the decision they get, and I -- I think we're 2 getting into areas which have a certain danger. 3 We obviously can't redo litigation between Jones 4 and Smith, but the next thing we'll be hearing 5 is there's a bill to award Hugh Farley $250,000 6 because he lost a case against the state in the 7 Court of Claims, and he shouldn't have lost the 8 case in the Court of Claims. 9 I just don't think of the 10 Legislature that way. I really think it is a 11 mistake to do it. Senator Dollinger pointed out 12 that we're opening the door to political 13 favoritism. We're opening the door to a 14 disaster. If we believe that not only should the 15 Trunzo law be the law but that there should be 16 standards and we want them to be lenient or 17 however you want to phrase it legally, we can do 18 that, but I think the concept of taking a matter 19 that was litigated and we set up the process of 20 litigation, and undoing it because the litigant 21 didn't like the result but knew Senator Bruno or 22 Senator Tully or Senator Gold or Senator 23 Paterson -- it doesn't matter -- if it were 24 Senator Farley, I'd look at it differently, but 25 I just think it's a terrible, terrible 5050 1 precedent. 2 We open the door to huge 3 criticism for all of us, and I think it's a 4 mistake, and I'm going to vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Volker. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 8 let me just say that I -- it's not my bill, but 9 I -- as somebody who had a number of these bills 10 some years ago that related back to this 11 situation we just talked about, the Trunzo 12 situation, personally, I think we're always 13 going to have these kind of situations because 14 it's the problem with democracy versus a 15 dictatorship or a Socialist state or whatever. 16 In a democracy you're always going to have 17 certain bills, and you can always argue that 18 certain people are preferred and all that sort 19 of thing, and in doing each bill, are you 20 subject to criticism? Sure. That's what they 21 pay us a huge salary for, quote/unquote -- and 22 obviously I guess I say that tongue in cheek - 23 but I guess what I mean is that although I 24 understand what you're saying, Senator Gold, 25 what I think you have to realize is that there 5051 1 are certain situations that are called to our 2 attention, that I guess it's believed need some 3 attention and maybe it is on a preferred basis, 4 but let me say to you, in response, Senator, to 5 your question about several of those bills, and 6 I think there might be a Volker bill that deals 7 with teachers also -- in fact, I'm a co-sponsor 8 on the one, Senator Farley's bill which deals 9 with the whole system. The problem though, in 10 all honesty, with the bill is it has been costed 11 out at $400 million. 12 Now, as somebody has said here, I 13 guess eventually we're going to do a budget and 14 certainly this is an issue I think we could look 15 at, but it is $400 million. The other bill for 16 teachers is costed out at a minimum of about $9 17 million. That still is a substantial amount of 18 money. I happen to agree with you, I think this 19 is something that, in the change-over when we 20 did the Trunzo bill and we did certain things as 21 far as maternity leave that we probably, you 22 know, we didn't think of, and there's a lot of 23 things that have happened in this system as we 24 made changes. We made changes a few years ago 25 in retirement for school districts. The school 5052 1 districts asked for it, and what we found out is 2 we created some havoc in certain school 3 districts because we made one school district 4 that started out with a person who is part time 5 ending up paying the whole bill for somebody way 6 down the line who then made an appeal there. We 7 didn't intend to do that, but that's the way the 8 law was interpreted and, by the way, we've 9 changed that. We have stopped that. 10 A lot of these things that I 11 think some of the things that have happened is 12 administrative decisions are made, then maybe 13 it's the Legislature's business to step in and 14 make some changes, and I agree with you it's 15 argued, and my colleague, Senator LaValle says 16 we are in a sense a court of last resort and 17 it's true we should make some blanket 18 decisions. In the meantime, the problem is 19 because these are such huge amounts, to make a 20 blanket decision we have to also look at it in 21 terms of the budget. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Gold, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, I'd just 25 like to make remarks in response to Senator 5053 1 Volker. 2 First of all, I understand it is 3 not his bill and he's put himself into this 4 pool. I think that it was unfair to bring 5 Senator LaValle into the pool. He didn't ask to 6 get into the pool. Senator Volker, there are - 7 there are people who are in public service who 8 we call judges, and their job is to listen to 9 cases and decide as to the various rights of the 10 people in those cases. 11 There are also situations where 12 we have bills on this calendar where a 13 municipality did something wrong and we can help 14 them fix it and that's a public service. I 15 think it is completely different where somebody 16 has had their day in court and they ask us to 17 undo it, and I can tell you, Senator, that if 18 this bill was sponsored by a Republican in the 19 other house or a Democrat in this house, there 20 would be some counsel in the back room saying 21 exactly what I'm saying on the floor: Do we 22 want to undo the results of litigated matters? 23 And I just think it's a bad policy and I'm going 24 to sit down for my life. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5054 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 5 a home rule message at the desk, by the way. 6 Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 9 the negatives and announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1138 are 12 Senators Gold and Leichter. Ayes 56, nays 2. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Holland. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 17 may we return to reports of standing 18 committees. I believe there is a report of the 19 Rules Committee at the desk. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 21 is. We will return to the standing -- order of 22 reports of standing committees. I'll ask the 23 Secretary to read the report of the Rules 24 Committee. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 5055 1 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 2 following bills: 3 Senate Print 317, by Senator 4 Skelos, an act to amend the Insurance Law; 5 547, by Senator Kuhl and Wright, 6 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law 7 and the Economic Development Law; 8 1407, by Senator Spano, an act to 9 amend the Civil Service Law; 10 1797, by Senator Larkin, an act 11 to amend the Administrative Code of the city of 12 New York; 13 2012, by Senator Larkin, an act 14 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 15 2585, by Senator Farley, an act 16 to amend the Labor Law; 17 2732-A, by Senator Cook, an act 18 to amend the Public Health Law; 19 2908, by Senator Stavisky, an act 20 to amend the Penal Law; 21 3111, by Senator Waldon, an act 22 to amend the Public Authorities Law; 23 3215, by Senator Leibell, an act 24 authorizing the town of Southeast, Putnam 25 County; 5056 1 3269-A, by Senator Spano, an act 2 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 3 3286, by Senator LaValle, an act 4 to amend the Civil Rights Law; 5 3291-B, by Senator Present, an 6 act to amend the Education Law; 7 3349, by Senator Kuhl, an act to 8 amend the Real Property Tax Law; 9 3355, by Senator Marchi, an act 10 to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law; 11 3385, by Senator Johnson, an act 12 to amend the Tax Law; 13 3533, by Senator Volker, an act 14 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 15 3552, by Senator Leibell, an act 16 to legalize, validate, ratify; 17 3636, by Senator Rath, an act to 18 amend the General Municipal Law; 19 3730, by Senator Volker, an act 20 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 21 3769, by Senator Volker, an act 22 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 23 3994, by Senator Stafford, an act 24 to repeal paragraph (b) of subdivision 2; 25 4159-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 5057 1 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 2 3530-A, by Senator Maltese, an 3 act to amend the Highway Law; 4 4678, by Senator Goodman, an act 5 to amend the General Municipal Law; 6 4690, by Senator Larkin, an act 7 to reopen the special retirement plan; 8 4853-A, by Senator Rath, an act 9 to amend the Labor Law and Executive Law; 10 5350, by Senator Present, an act 11 to amend the Education Law; 12 2175, by Senator Oppenheimer, an 13 act to amend the Town Law. 14 All bills directly to third 15 reading. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Holland. 18 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 19 I move we accept the report of the Rules 20 Committee. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 22 to accept the report of the Rules Committee. 23 All in favor signify by saying aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.") 25 Opposed nay. 5058 1 (There was no response.) 2 The report is accepted. 3 Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 5 can we return to motions and resolutions. I 6 understand there are two privileged resolutions 7 at the desk, one by Senator Maltese and one by 8 Senator Seward. Could we have the titles read, 9 please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the title to the resolution offered by 12 Senator Seward. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 14 Seward, Legislative Resolution, congratulating 15 the Huntersland Volunteer Fire Department upon 16 the occasion of its 50th Anniversary on June 13, 17 1997. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 19 is on the resolution. All those in favor 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response.) 24 The resolution is adopted. 25 Secretary will read the title of 5059 1 the privileged resolution by Senator Maltese. 2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 3 Maltese, Legislative Resolution, commending the 4 Order Sons of Italy upon the occasion of its 5 92nd Anniversary celebration. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Question 7 is on the resolution. All those in favor signify 8 by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response.) 12 The resolution is adopted. 13 Senator Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 15 is there housekeeping? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes. 17 Senator Farley. Return to motions and 18 resolutions. Senator Farley. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. On behalf of Senator Lack, Mr. 21 President, on page 25, I offer the following 22 amendments to Calendar Number 759, Senate Print 23 5049, and I ask that bill retain its place. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 25 Amendments to Calendar 759 are received and 5060 1 adopted, and the bill will retain its place on 2 the Third Reading Calendar. 3 Senator Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: On behalf of 5 Senator Marcellino, I wish to amend a bill 6 that's been recalled from the Assembly and if 7 you'd call up Print Number 2898 which was 8 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 9 desk. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Marcellino, Senate Print 2898, an act to amend 14 the General Municipal Law. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Good. I now 16 move to reconsider the vote by which this 17 passed. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will call the roll on reconsideration. 20 (The Secretary called the roll on 21 reconsideration. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Farley. 25 SENATOR FARLEY: I now offer the 5061 1 following amendments. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 3 Amendments are received and adopted. 4 Senator Holland. 5 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 6 there being no further business, I move we 7 adjourn until Wednesday, June 11, at 10:00 a.m. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 9 objection, Senate stands adjourned until 10 tomorrow, June 11th, Wednesday morning, at 10:00 11 a.m., specifically 10:00 a.m. 12 (Whereupon at 12:20 p.m., the 13 Senate adjourned.) 14 15 16 17 18