Monday, August 4, 1997

7606 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 August 4, 1997 11 12:28 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEPHEN F. SLOAN, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 7607 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 Senate will come to order. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we convene 4 the Senate on Monday at 12:28 a.m. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Senate is in order. 7 Ask the members to please rise 8 and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance 9 to the Flag. 10 (The assemblage repeated the 11 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 12 In the absence of clergy, may we 13 bow our heads in a moment of silence. 14 (A moment of silence was 15 observed. ) 16 Reading of the Journal. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Sunday, August 3rd. The Senate met pursuant to 19 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, August 20 2nd, was read and approved. On motion, Senate 21 adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 23 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 24 read. 25 Presentation of petitions. 7608 1 Messages from the Assembly. 2 Messages from the Governor. 3 Reports of standing committees. 4 Senator Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 6 can we ask for an immediate meeting of the Rules 7 Committee in Room 332. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 9 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 10 Committee, immediate meeting of the Rules 11 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, Room 12 332. 13 A VOICE: But do we need it? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Messages 15 from the Governor. 16 Reports of standing committees. 17 Reports of select committees. 18 Communications and reports from 19 state officers. 20 Motions and resolutions. 21 (Long pause) 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Can the Senate 23 presently stand at ease awaiting a report from 24 the Rules Committee and then I would recommend 25 an immediate conference of the Majority in Room 7609 1 332, and I believe that the Minority plans on 2 conferencing at the same time, is that correct? 3 SENATOR PATERSON: That's 4 correct, Mr. President. That's correct, Mr. 5 Majority Leader. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Senate will stand at ease awaiting a report of 8 the Rules Committee. Upon receipt of the Rules 9 Committee, there will be an immediate Minority 10 Conference in the Minority Conference Room. 11 There will be an immediate Majority Conference 12 in the Majority Conference Room. 13 Senate stands at ease. 14 (The Senate stood at ease from 15 12:36 a.m., until 12:53 a.m.) 16 The Senate will come to order. 17 Senator Larkin. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Can we return to 19 reports of standing committees. We have a 20 report from the Rules Committee. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 22 return to the order of reports of standing 23 committees. There is a Rules report at the 24 desk. I'll ask the Secretary to read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 7610 1 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 2 following bills directly for third reading: 3 3512-A, by Senator Spano, an act 4 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules; 5 5644-A, by Senator Volker, an act 6 to amend the Public Authorities Law; 7 5759, by the Committee on Rules, 8 an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering 9 and Breeding Law; 10 5787, by Senator Holland, an act 11 to amend Chapter 462 of the Laws of 1996. 12 All bills directly for third 13 reading. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Larkin. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Move to accept 17 the report, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 19 to accept the report of the Rules Committee. 20 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 24 The Rules report is accepted. 25 The bills are ordered directly to third 7611 1 reading. 2 Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 4 can we now stand at ease until the conferences 5 of the respective caucuses have been completed. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: O.K. 7 There are -- there's a conference of the 8 Minority immediately. There's a conference of 9 the Majority in their respective conference 10 rooms, and the Senate will stand at ease. 11 Senator Paterson, did you wish to 12 be recognized? 13 SENATOR PATERSON: I wanted to 14 verify the current date, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Last I 16 knew, it was August 4th. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 (The Senate stood at ease from 20 12:55 until 1:52 a.m.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Senate will come to order. Members please take 23 their chairs, staff their spots. 24 Senator Holland. 25 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 7612 1 can we go to Senate Calendar Number 66 of 2 Monday, August the 4th, and do Calendar Number 3 1645, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: For the 5 benefit of the members, we'll be taking up the 6 new calendar on your desk. It's Calendar Number 7 66 for Monday, August the 4th, and you should 8 know that the bills that are listed are a 9 composite of the bills that have not passed on 10 various calendars of the last two days. With 11 that, on page 6 of the new calendar, Secretary 12 will read Calendar Number 1645. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1645, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 15 5759, an act to amend the Racing, Pari-Mutuel 16 Wagering and Breeding Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 25. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 25 the negatives and announce the results. 7613 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 2 the negative on Calendar Number 1645 are 3 Senators Dollinger, Leichter, Spano, Tully and 4 Velella. Ayes 52, also Senator Stavisky, 5 Senator Oppenheimer. Ayes 50, nays 7. 6 (Senator Oppenheimer indicated an 7 affirmative vote.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Announce 9 the results. Read the negatives again, please. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senators 11 Dollinger, Leichter, Spano, Stavisky, Tully and 12 Velella. Also Senator - 13 (Senator Oppenheimer indicated a 14 negative vote.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Oppenheimer, you only get a chance to vote 17 once. Now, we have to make up our mind whether 18 it's in the affirmative or in the negative. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: (Inaudible 20 comment-laughter) In the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Close the roll 24 quick. 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50, nays 7. 7614 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 2 is passed. 3 Senator Holland. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. President, 5 we're waiting for some messages of necessity. 6 We'll have to stand at ease until we get some of 7 those unless there are some. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We have 9 some housekeeping, Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: If we 12 could return to the order of motions and 13 resolutions, I'd like to recognize Senator 14 Marcellino for the purpose of motions. 15 Senator Marcellino. 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Simulcast, 17 did you tell -- excuse me. 18 Mr. President, I wish to call up 19 Senator Saland's bill, Print Number 5,356 20 recalled from the Assembly which is now at the 21 desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 25 Saland, Senate Print 5356, an act to amend the 7615 1 Penal Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 Marcellino. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 5 President, I now move to reconsider the vote by 6 which this bill was passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will call the roll on reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll on 10 reconsideration. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 13 before the house. Senator Marcellino. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 15 President, I now offer the following 16 amendments. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Amendments are received and adopted. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you. 20 The Senate will stand at ease 21 awaiting - 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Padavan. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'd like to be 7616 1 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 2 1645. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 4 objection, hearing no objection, Senator Padavan 5 will be recorded in the negative on Calendar 6 Number 1645. 7 (The Senate stood at ease from 8 1:56 to 2:07 a.m.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 10 will come to order. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. President, 16 has Calendar Number 1586 been passed? On page 17 5. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: No, no, 19 that's on the calendar. It has not passed. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Holland. 23 SENATOR HOLLAND: You ready? Mr. 24 President, can we take up Calendar Number 1643, 25 please. 7617 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 2 will read Calendar Number 1633 on the calendar 3 on your desk, Calendar Number 66. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1643, by Senator Spano, Senate Print Number 6 3512-A, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 7 and Rules. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: Is there a 9 message at the desk, Mr. President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 11 is. 12 SENATOR HOLLAND: Move we accept 13 the message. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 15 to accept the message on Calendar Number 1643. 16 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The message is accepted. 21 Secretary will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 25 roll. 7618 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Senator Holland. 6 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yeah. Why 7 don't we do Calendar Number 1646, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the title to Calendar Number 1646. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1646, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 5787, an 12 act to amend Chapter 462 of the Laws of 1996. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Holland. 15 SENATOR HOLLAND: Is there a 16 message? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 18 is. 19 SENATOR HOLLAND: Move we accept 20 the message. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 22 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 23 Number 1646. All those in favor signify by 24 saying aye. 25 (Response of "Aye.") 7619 1 Opposed nay. 2 (There was no response. ) 3 The message is accepted. Bill is 4 before the house. 5 Secretary will read the last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 Senator Holland. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Can we do 1644, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the title to Calendar Number 1644. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1644, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5644-A, an 22 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Holland. 25 SENATOR HOLLAND: Is there a 7620 1 message of necessity at the desk? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 is. 4 SENATOR HOLLAND: Move we accept 5 the message. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 motion is to accept the message of necessity on 8 Calendar Number 1644. All those in favor 9 signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response. ) 13 The message is accepted. Bill is 14 before the house. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Volker, an explanation has been requested by 18 Senator Dollinger. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 20 let me first of all say that this bill 21 represents an agreement between the both houses 22 of the Legislature and the Governor and with the 23 help, frankly, of all leaders here, I'd like to 24 first certainly thank the Governor for his help 25 in this, the Majority Leader, the Speaker, and 7621 1 I'd also like to say, and I'll say it to start 2 with that this bill which, as I think you can 3 see, has all the members of our delegation on 4 it, frankly, on both sides, is a bill that 5 represents an answer to a problem for one of the 6 major hospitals in this country, the Roswell 7 Park Cancer Institute. 8 It was worked on, let me say, by 9 the way, very ably and I'm going to read these 10 because I think it's important, by a number of 11 staff people here who did an excellent job, Mary 12 Louise Mallick, and Abe Lackman, of course, Mary 13 Louise who works for Abe, Kathy Bryan, from 14 Senate staff, Jane Preston from Senator Hannon's 15 office and Senator Hannon was very important to 16 us, and Donna Montalto and Jeff Buley from 17 Senator Bruno's staff, as well as a number of 18 people certainly in the Governor's office. 19 The reason this is important 20 because to us in Western New York we have had a 21 number of difficult issues over the last several 22 years. One of these has been the declining 23 financial structure of Roswell Park. What this 24 bill represents is a plan to restructure the 25 Roswell Park hospital, to make sure that it is 7622 1 viable, by setting up a public benefit 2 corporation. 3 The budget provides additional 4 funding for Roswell Park to give it what could 5 be called bridge funding, I suppose, as it moves 6 off into the future. One of the biggest 7 problems with many of the public hospitals, and 8 we have already seen legislation in this house 9 and in both houses, on public hospitals, is 10 governance and what this bill does is it changes 11 the governance, the ability of this hospital to 12 manage itself. We have -- Roswell is hiring one 13 of the top people in the country, in Dr. Hoehn 14 from one of the major hospitals in the country 15 from Texas, so we are very, very hopeful that 16 what this bill will do is to set up a process 17 that would put Roswell back in a financially 18 strong position and allow it to become totally 19 viable. 20 It's a very important part of the 21 Western New York fabric. It's not been easy. 22 In all honesty, we've had our problems back in 23 Buffalo recently, as more frankly with negative 24 ness in the community. The business community 25 is extremely negative, and the media has been 7623 1 pretty negative on this issue. 2 There were many who said, Well, 3 what you just do with this hospital is privatize 4 it. The problem is that some people don't 5 realize that privatization is not always the 6 answer, and what we're trying to do here is 7 develop a rational process for making sure that 8 this hospital succeeds and also that people's 9 jobs are protected wherever possible. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Dollinger, on the bill. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I've had an 17 opportunity to speak with Senator Volker briefly 18 about this bill before it came to the floor, and 19 I want to commend him for his leadership, and 20 the Buffalo delegation. I'm pleased to see that 21 this is an obviously important bill for my 22 colleagues from Buffalo; and how do I know it's 23 very important? I, frankly, not only see all 24 the members of the Republican delegation from 25 the Buffalo community, but I see the Democratic 7624 1 members as well. 2 Senator Volker, while voting for 3 this, I just have one caveat which I think is 4 important to my community 90 miles down the road 5 from Buffalo, and that is that, as we devise a 6 health care system that is based on a free 7 market series of principles, government 8 intervention in that market place, whether it's 9 either changing assessments for certain groups 10 or providing public funds for certain entities, 11 has the net impact of occasionally skewering 12 that free market and we end up with a 13 displacement which no longer represents a true 14 free market, but ends up in a market that is 15 tinkered with in certain areas. 16 I know I've heard from lots of 17 people at CSEA about the importance of Roswell 18 Park, and I know and I agree with you, Senator, 19 that it's an important part of the Western New 20 York fabric, but as we model that fabric, in a 21 free market notion, and as we create competition 22 between our health care providers in an effort 23 to drive down costs, I just think we have to pay 24 attention to the fact that government 25 intervention in that free marketplace can have 7625 1 the effect of skewering the free market and 2 ending up in a situation where it's no longer 3 free market principles that control but instead 4 government is dictating the future course. 5 When the advertisements for 6 Roswell Park show up in Rochester, New York, to 7 the disadvantage to Strong Memorial Hospital, 8 Rochester General Hospital, and our private 9 sector not-for-profit hospitals, then there's a 10 danger that that kind of skewing can occur. 11 So, Senator, I'm going to vote 12 for this. I understand how important this is to 13 the Buffalo delegation. I can see it on the 14 face of this bill, but I just think it's one of 15 these things that we have to monitor carefully 16 to make sure, if we're going to go down the road 17 to a free market system, we're fully aware of 18 how we preserve that system and if we do any 19 tinkering of it, we do it for the public 20 benefit. 21 I understand it's being done for 22 that reason, and for that reason alone I'm going 23 to support it. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Nanula. 7626 1 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. Very briefly, on the bill. 3 I want to start by firstly 4 thanking you, Senator Volker, for ensuring that 5 this effort was, in fact, a bipartisan effort in 6 regard to the listing of both Democrats and 7 Republicans on this bill, and Roswell Park 8 Cancer Institute is just that. It's an 9 institute, the first of its kind in the nation, 10 devoted to researching a cure for cancer and my 11 esteemed colleague from Monroe, Rick Dollinger, 12 and, of course, I understand the importance of 13 Strong to the Rochester community, but we have 14 to understand as New Yorkers that Roswell Park 15 Cancer Institute is a New York State institution 16 and, in fact, is a national institution, and we 17 also should remind ourselves that as a state we 18 put significant dollars, to the tune of almost 19 $300 million, into Roswell Park several years 20 ago, a construction process that is just now 21 coming to fruition, and with this legislation 22 and the great effort behind it to ensure that 23 this institution can be one that's empowered to 24 move itself into the 21st Century, to work with 25 the private sector, the HMOs, and the merged 7627 1 hospital networks that are coming together in 2 Western New York, it can be in fact a dynamic 3 vibrant entity not only for Western New York and 4 not only for New York State, but for this 5 country and really again put itself on the 6 forefront of cancer research, and hopefully in 7 the forefront of finding cures to cancer. 8 So with that again, I want to 9 thank Senator Volker on behalf of his bipartisan 10 initiative here, and for that matter all those 11 on both sides of the aisle that were involved in 12 bringing this legislation forward. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is there 15 any other Senator wishing to speak on the bill? 16 Hearing none, Secretary will read the last 17 section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 25. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 7628 1 Senator Holland. 2 SENATOR HOLLAND: Stand at ease 3 please, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Senate will stand at ease. 6 (The Senate stood at ease from 7 2:20 a.m. to 3:47 a.m.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 11 there will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 12 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 14 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the 15 Majority Conference Room. 16 (The Senate stood at ease from 17 3:53 a.m. until 4:20 a.m.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 19 Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 21 on Senate Calendar Number 66, would you please 22 call up Calendar 1155. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 24 Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7629 1 1155, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5349-C, 2 an act to amend the Lien Law. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 4 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 6 a message at the desk. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 9 to accept the message of necessity. All those 10 in favor signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed nay. 13 ()There was no response. ) 14 The message of necessity is 15 accepted. Read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect the first day of 18 September. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you -- on 7630 1 the same calendar, would you call up Calendar 2 Number 1385. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1385, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5535-A, an 7 act authorizing the town of Amherst. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 9 message at the desk? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 11 a message at the desk. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 14 is to accept the message of necessity. All 15 those in favor signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response. ) 19 The message of necessity is 20 accepted. Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7631 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 6 would you call up Calendar Number 1502. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1302 - 11 SENATOR SKELOS: It was recalled 12 and restored today, to the calendar today. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1302, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5356-A, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 17 message at the desk? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 19 a message at the desk. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 22 is to accept the message of necessity. All 23 those in favor signify by saying aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.") 25 Opposed nay. 7632 1 (There was no response. ) 2 The message is accepted. Read 3 the last section. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Oh, 7 sorry. Senator Leichter. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Which calendar 9 is that, 1302? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: It's 11 Calendar 1302, Senator Leichter. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: That was 13 restored to the calendar today, but it's not in 14 the calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 16 is on the desk. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. 18 Maybe Senator Saland could 19 quickly tell us what changes were made in this 20 bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Saland, an explanation of changes has been 23 requested by Senator Leichter. 24 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 25 Leichter, I believe what the changes are, and 7633 1 I'd need the marked up copy of the preceding 2 bill, but I believe that they may primarily deal 3 with the stepped up "E" felony penalty where 4 there is a predicate for having been convicted 5 previously within the past five years of 6 non-support of a child which was the underlying 7 "A" misdemeanor, but if you would like I 8 certainly can take a -- take a look at the prior 9 print and tell you with greater specificity. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: We'll forget 11 it. Last section. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 15 act shall take effect on the first day of 16 September. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 22 is passed. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 if we could return to reports of standing 25 committees. I believe there's a report of the 7634 1 Rules Committee at the desk. I ask that it be 2 read. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 6 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 7 following bills: 8 Senate Print 2543, by Senator 9 Spano, an act to amend the Retirement and Social 10 Security Law; 11 3738, by Senator Breslin, an act 12 to amend the Tax Law; 13 4139, by Senator Spano, an act to 14 amend the Workers' Compensation Law; 15 4409-C, by Senator Rath, an act 16 to authorize the trustees of the State 17 University; 18 4598, by Senator Velella, an act 19 to amend the Administrative Code of the city of 20 New York; 21 4749-B, by Senator Skelos, an act 22 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law; 23 4842, by Senator Goodman, an act 24 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 25 5024-A by Senator Farley, an act 7635 1 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 2 5119-B, by Senator Alesi, an act 3 to amend the Education Law; 4 5391, by Senator Seward, an act 5 to amend the Public Service Law; 6 5501-C, by Senator Rath, an act 7 to amend the Education Law; 8 5577-A, by Senator Present, an 9 act to amend the Indian Law; 10 5631-A, an act -- by Senator 11 Spano, an act to amend the Public Service Law; 12 5738, by Senator Trunzo, an act 13 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 14 5740, by Senator Farley, an act 15 to legalize, validate acts by the Fonda 16 Fultonville Central School; 17 5748, by the Committee on Rules, 18 an act to amend the Tax Law; 19 5749, by the Committee on Rules, 20 an act to amend the Tax Law; 21 5751, by Senator Goodman, an act 22 to amend the Real Property Law; 23 5755, by Senator Spano, an act 24 creating a temporary state commission; 25 5768, by Senator Velella, act to 7636 1 amend the General Business Law; 2 5776, by Senator Maltese, an act 3 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 4 5786, by the Committee on Rules, 5 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law; 6 5789, by Senator Volker, an act 7 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; and 8 5790, by Senator Maziarz, an act 9 to amend the facility schools to expedite. 10 All bills directly for third 11 reading. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 13 Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept 15 the report of the Rules Committee. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 17 is to accept the report of the Rules Committee. 18 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 The report of the Rules Committee 23 is accepted. All bills are referred to third 24 reading. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7637 1 at this time if we could take up Senate 2 Supplemental Calendar 66-A, non-controversial. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1647, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2543, an 7 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 8 Law. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 11 bill aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1648, in relation to Calendar Number 1648, 14 Senator Breslin moves to discharge from the 15 Committee on Rules Assembly Bill Number 6118, 16 and substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 17 Third Reading 1648. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Substitution ordered. Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1648, by member of the Assembly McEneny, 22 Assembly Print 6118, an act to amend the Tax 23 Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section. 7638 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1649, in relation to Calendar Number 1649, 11 Senator Spano moves to discharge from the 12 Committee on Labor Assembly Print 6543 and 13 substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 14 Third Reading 1649. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 16 Substitution ordered. Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1649, by member of the Assembly Nolan, Assembly 19 Print 6543, an act to amend the Workers' 20 Compensation Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. - 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 7639 1 bill aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1650, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4409-C, an 4 act to authorize the trustees of the State 5 University. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1651, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 4598, an 18 act to amend the Administrative Code of the city 19 of New York. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 25 roll. 7640 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1652, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4749-B, an 7 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 9 message of necessity at the desk? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 11 a message at the desk. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 14 is to accept the message of necessity. All 15 those in favor signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Message of necessity is 20 accepted. Secretary will read. 21 I'm sorry. Read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 24 act shall take effect on the first day of 25 September. 7641 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1653, in relation to Calendar Number 1653, 9 Senator Goodman moves to discharge from the 10 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 8345 and 11 substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 12 Third Reading 1653. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 14 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1653, by the Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 17 8345, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 20 last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7642 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1654, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5024-A, an 6 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 7 Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 9 last - 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 12 bill aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: 1656, by Senator 14 Seward, Senate Print 5391, an act to amend the 15 Public Service Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 15. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 25 is passed. 7643 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1657, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5501-C, an 3 act to amend the Education Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1658, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5577-A, 16 an act to amend the Indian Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 23 bill aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1659, by Senator Spano, an act to amend the 7644 1 Public Service Law. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There 5 is. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 8 is to accept the message of necessity. All 9 those in favor signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 Opposed nay. 12 (There was no response.) 13 The message of necessity is 14 accepted. Secretary will read the last 15 section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 17 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1660, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5738, an 7645 1 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 2 Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 19. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 12 I'd like to explain my vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 14 Padavan, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I've read this 16 bill and I must confess that it is rather 17 complex in terms of understanding the fiscal 18 impacts, although there is a notation at the 19 very end indicating that it is fiscally neutral 20 in terms of any cost to the city of New York in 21 terms of an early retirement program for our 22 teachers. 23 But I do find something else 24 which I do find rather troubling. This early 25 retirement program would be effective 7646 1 immediately. I'm sure many of you have noted 2 some articles in the media just recently 3 indicating a severe shortage of teachers within 4 the City system. It has reached really a very, 5 very troubling level, not only in terms of not 6 enough teachers but also teachers who are 7 certified. A significant percentage of our 8 pedagogical staff in the city of New York are 9 uncertified in their various categories. 10 Now, this takes effect 11 immediately. That means that in September, the 12 school year just beginning, the Board of 13 Education of the city of New York might find 14 itself in a position of having significantly 15 fewer teachers than it planned on having, with 16 absolutely no reasonable amount of time to 17 replace them and, as I'm sure you're also aware, 18 in recent years and this year will be no 19 different, the number of pupils entering in the 20 system will increase by 20- to 25,000. 21 Now, with all of those factors, I 22 think, to be considered, it would seem to me 23 that it's imprudent to make this law effective 24 immediately. It would have been more 25 appropriate, I think, to allow the City, the 7647 1 Board of Education, some time to at least 2 recruit and adjust for what obviously will be 3 very significant shortfalls and so, for that 4 reason, Mr. President, I will have to vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 6 Padavan will be recorded in the negative. 7 Announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Oh, I'm sorry. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 13 Senators Padavan and Leichter recorded in the 14 negative. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1661, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5740, an 19 act to legalize and validate acts by the Fonda 20 Fultonville Central School. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7648 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1662, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 8 5740-A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 10 last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 16. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1663, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 21 5749, an act to amend the Tax Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 23 last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 7649 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1664, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5751, an 9 act to amend the Real Property Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1665, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5755, an 22 act creating a temporary state commission. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 24 last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 7650 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: 1668, by Senator 6 Velella, an act to amend the General Business 7 Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the same date as such 12 chapter of the laws of 1997. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1669, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 21 5786, an act to amend the Public Authorities 22 Law. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 24 message at the desk? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 7651 1 a message at the desk. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 4 is to accept the message of necessity at the 5 desk. All those in favor signify by saying 6 aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 Opposed nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The message is accepted. 11 Secretary will read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1670, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5789, an 22 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 24 message of necessity at the desk? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There's 7652 1 a message of necessity at the desk. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 4 is to accept the message of necessity. All 5 those in favor signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The message is accepted. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 12 Secretary will read the last section. Lay the 13 bill aside. 14 Senator Skelos, that concludes 15 the reading of the calendar. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could have 17 the controversial reading of that calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Secretary will read the controversial calendar. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1647, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2543, an 22 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 23 Law. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7653 1 Spano, an explanation has been requested of 2 Calendar Number 1647. 3 SENATOR SPANO: Yes, Mr. 4 President. This is a bill that allows for the 5 Supreme Court Clerks to apply for three-quarter 6 disability -- disability retirement. 7 Last year we passed a bill to 8 offer Supreme Court Officers to -- to have this 9 same option. It was signed into law by the 10 Governor. The Supreme Court Clerks do much of 11 the same work as the Supreme Court Officers and 12 have the same exposure as do those other 13 officers and this bill gives them that option. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: If you -- if 15 you'd yield, please, Senator Spano. 16 SENATOR SPANO: Sure. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 18 yields. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: You know, I 20 have no problem, as I said before, if there's a 21 real risk related to somebody's employment. I 22 think we ought to compensate them if they're 23 injured in the course of performance, but what 24 risk do these court officers take? 25 SENATOR SPANO: They're under 7654 1 extreme risk in the courts. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Like what? 3 They drop their pencil? 4 SENATOR SPANO: The bail... the 5 Supreme -- the court officers are the -- are an 6 officer of the court obviously, and they have a 7 great deal of exposure in terms of the prisoners 8 that are brought before the judge, so the - 9 there are a lot of -- we're seeing increasing 10 weapons that have been confiscated in -- in our 11 courtrooms. 12 The courtroom crime has been 13 increasing. The court clerks have been gaining 14 in their responsibilities, in their duties, and 15 they are exposed to hazards in their job. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 17 President. Mr. President, Senator Spano, you 18 know, I go to court occasionally; I used to go 19 more often and litigate. I must say I've never 20 found the courtroom a particularly dangerous or 21 risky place, but you tell us, you know, that the 22 incidents have increased, and so on. Do you 23 have any figures or any statistics that show 24 that there's been, in fact, an increase to these 25 accidents to these court officers related to 7655 1 them having to deal with violence in the 2 courtroom? I mean are we dealing with a serious 3 problem, Senator, that we ought to address and 4 rectify? 5 SENATOR SPANO: We do -- we do 6 not have any -- any specific statistics that I 7 can share with you, Senator, but I'll tell you 8 that if it is not a problem, then they would not 9 be applying for an accidental -- accidental 10 disability, so for them, if an injury does 11 occur, we're giving them that option. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 13 if Senator Spano continues to yield. 14 SENATOR SPANO: Sure. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, your 16 theory is, well, just in case an accident 17 occurs, would you be in favor of across the 18 board throughout the pension system to apply the 19 rule that anybody should be entitled to retire 20 on three-quarters disability if they have any 21 accident at all in the course of their 22 employment? 23 SENATOR SPANO: No, I don't think 24 that we would -- I certainly would not support 25 that type of measure across the board. We're 7656 1 talking about peace officers; we're talking 2 about individuals in a state or -- who are in 3 high risk jobs and who deal on a daily basis in 4 the hazards of the court system. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 6 Mr. President, on the bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 8 Leichter, on the bill. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, 10 Senator Spano. I mean in all fairness, you've 11 been unable to identify any hazards or any 12 particular problems for these people who, as I 13 understand it, are not uniformed court officers 14 but who we've given the status of peace 15 officers. 16 We've given the status of peace 17 officers to so many people, I don't know if 18 there's ten people left in New York state who 19 aren't peace officers. It just seems -- Senator 20 Skelos would like a bill making him a peace 21 officer, but in all seriousness, I mean we ought 22 to be certainly fair to all of the public 23 employees. We appreciate their work, but I 24 think we -- if we're going to give them a 25 benefit, I think it's got to be based on some 7657 1 rational basis. 2 I've heard nothing that Senator 3 Spano says which justifies this increased 4 expense to the pension system. We are talking 5 about public monies. It seems to me that we 6 have a responsibility to see that these public 7 monies, after all these are charges on the 8 employers, that if there's a justification for 9 it, fine. If there's not, we shouldn't do it. 10 I've heard no justification. I think, frankly, 11 this is a gift that Senator Spano is making to 12 certain court officers, and I don't think it's 13 justified. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 22 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7658 1 1649, by member of the Assembly Nolan, Assembly 2 Print 6543, an act to amend the Workers' 3 Compensation Law. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 6 last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1654, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5024-A, an 17 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 18 Law. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Farley, an explanation has been requested of 22 Calendar Number 1654. 23 SENATOR FARLEY: I'm delighted to 24 explain it at this hour. Senator Leichter, you 25 want this explanation? 7659 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Please. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: This is a bill 3 that affects one of the most popular state 4 workers that we have, the forest rangers. It 5 would allow DEC's forest rangers to transfer 6 from the state employees' retirement system to 7 the state and local police and firemen 8 retirement system. Therefore, like other 9 officers, forest rangers could elect either the 10 25-year retirement plan or retirement at age 11 60. 12 This bill recognizes that DEC's 13 forest rangers both have police and fire 14 responsibilities. They are the only state 15 employees with significant firefighting 16 responsibilities, including fire suppression, 17 supervision of local units and prevention 18 activities. They are also designated peace 19 officers who enforce a variety of environmental 20 law. They're also required to complete 21 mandatory basic and annual police training. 22 They direct and participate in emergency rescue 23 operations. 24 Because of these dual police and 25 fire responsibilities, forest rangers should be 7660 1 eligible for membership in the state and local 2 police retirement systems, in my judgment. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Last section. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Oppenheimer. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'd like 19 unanimous consent to be recorded in the negative 20 on, it's S. 5749, which is - 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Calendar 22 1663, Senator. Without objection, Senator 23 Oppenheimer will be recorded in the negative on 24 Calendar Number 1663. 25 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 7661 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1658, by Senator Present, Senate Print 5577-A, 5 an act to amend the Indian Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1665, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5755, an 18 act creating a temporary commission on 19 employment classifications. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 21 last section. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: I have a 23 question. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Leichter. 7662 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, if 2 Senator Spano would yield, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 4 Spano, Senator Leichter asks if you would yield 5 for a question. 6 SENATOR SPANO: Yes. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 8 notice in setting up this commission, that while 9 you give two appointments to the Speaker and to 10 the Majority Leader, you give no appointments to 11 the Minority. That's always troubled us on this 12 side of the aisle. 13 SENATOR SPANO: Well, that always 14 troubled me when I was in the Assembly also. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, and 16 therefore, did you learn from that, Senator? 17 SENATOR SPANO: No, no -- or some 18 say yes. 19 A VOICE: Enjoying the joke. 20 SENATOR SPANO: That's why I 21 switched. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Senator, 23 -- apparently you did learn, Senator, but maybe 24 the wrong lesson. Let me -- let me just ask you 25 another question. Really, what is -- what is 7663 1 the need for this commission, Senator? We have a 2 Civil Service Commission. Can't they do this 3 work? 4 SENATOR SPANO: They haven't been 5 able to do this. There has been an enormous 6 amount of confusion for the last number of years 7 on the designation of what -- who, in fact, is 8 an independent contractor. We have a number of 9 bills that have been presented to the Labor 10 Committee, whether it be taxicab drivers or 11 models, and we probably have a dozen different 12 classifications that have been sent to us, where 13 we're trying to come to terms with the entire 14 issue of just who is an independent contractor. 15 One way for us to come with some clear, concise 16 bill that will be able to pull everybody in will 17 be to get the -- the departments involved, the 18 Department of Labor and Taxation and Finance, 19 the Workers' Comp' Board, which are agencies 20 which deal with each of those issues as well as 21 representatives from the Legislature, so that we 22 can reach out to the affected groups and come in 23 with an all-encompassing bill to finally deal 24 with this issue once and for all. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 7664 1 if Senator Spano will continue to yield. I 2 still haven't heard why the Civil Service 3 Commission can't do it or, for that matter, why 4 the standing committees of the Senate and 5 Assembly can't draft a bill and deal with all of 6 these classifications. 7 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President, 8 there are a lot of conflicting interests in not 9 only in the Labor Law, the Workers' Compensation 10 Law, the Department of Taxation and Finance, 11 each of these agencies all attack this issue in 12 a different direction, and what we're asking for 13 in this legislation that is being supported by 14 the AFL-CIO as well as The Business Council is 15 for us to get everyone at the same table working 16 in the same direction to develop a comprehensive 17 solution to a problem. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 19 on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Leichter, on the bill. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Maybe it's 23 because of the lateness of the hour and I don't 24 appreciate fully what Senator Spano said, but 25 I'm no more convinced on this bill, Senator 7665 1 Spano, than I was on your previous bill and I 2 just point out that I just think it's a wrong 3 way to go that when you set up a commission of 4 this sort, you exclude the Minority. You should 5 have more regard for your Republican colleagues 6 in the Assembly, and you should have more regard 7 for your Democratic colleagues in the Senate. 8 I think if we -- if a commission 9 is to be set up, and I'm not convinced that you 10 need it, I think you should provide for Minority 11 appointments. In view of that, I think that's 12 reason enough not to vote for it, but I fail to 13 see the real need for this commission. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Party vote in 21 the negative. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Party vote in 23 the affirmative. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Party 25 vote. Call the roll. 7666 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 34, nays 23, 3 party vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1670, by Senator Volker, Senate Print - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 11 Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: On Calendar 13 Number 1663, Senate Bill 5749, I'd like 14 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 15 negative. I believe it's an extender of the 16 commuter tax. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 18 objection, Senator Skelos will be recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1663. 20 SENATOR SPANO: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Spano. 23 SENATOR SPANO: Can I also be 24 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1663. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 7667 1 objection. Will you hold just one second. 2 All right. Would anyone else 3 desire -- we're going to have to recognize you 4 one at a time because we've completed that roll 5 call. 6 Senator LaValle. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. President, 8 may I be recorded in the negative on Calendar 9 Number 1663, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 11 objection, Senator LaValle will be recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar 1363. 13 Senator Lack. 14 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Without objection, I too would 17 like to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 18 1663. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 20 objection, so ordered. 21 Senator Trunzo. 22 SENATOR TRUNZO: Without 23 objection, I'd like to be recorded in the 24 negative on Calendar 1663. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 7668 1 objection, Senator Trunzo in the negative. 2 Senator Saland. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 I, too, would like unanimous 6 consent to be recorded in the negative on 1663. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 8 objection. 9 Senator Marcellino. 10 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. I, too, would like to be 12 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 13 1663. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 15 objection. 16 Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: I'd like to be 18 recorded in the negative on Calendar 1663. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 20 objection. 21 Senator Tully. 22 SENATOR TULLY: Mr. President, 23 please record me in the negative on Calendar 24 Number 1663. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 7669 1 objection. 2 Senator Hannon. 3 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 4 I'd like to be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number 1663. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 7 objection. 8 Is there any other Senator who 9 wishes to change his -- Senator Johnson. 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: No. Is that 11 right? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 13 objection, Senator Johnson wishes to be recorded 14 in the negative on Calendar Number 1663. 15 Does any other Senator wish to 16 change his vote with regard to Calendar Number 17 1663? 18 (There was no response.) 19 Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1670, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6789, an 22 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Explanation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Volker, an explanation has been requested of 7670 1 Calendar Number 1670. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 3 this is a Governor's program bill relating to 4 actually three separate cases, Court of Appeals 5 cases, which in all honesty passed this house, 6 that is, what these cases represent, the changes 7 in these passed this house earlier this year in 8 a very large bill, called the Police and Public 9 Protection Act, if I'm not mistaken. 10 What this bill represents is, 11 from what I'm told by the Governor's office - 12 Mr. President. I hate to do this, but - 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 14 Waldon, your point is well taken. Can we have 15 some order in the house so Senator Volker can be 16 heard. 17 Senator Volker, please proceed. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: At any rate, 19 I've been asked to do this because the 20 Governor's office, I'm told, has been discussing 21 this with the Assembly in an attempt 22 specifically to deal with these three areas. 23 The first area relates with the 24 change in the People versus -- People vs. Holman 25 case which states that the indicia of the 7671 1 requirements of probable cause and reasonable 2 suspicion, a police officer must have an 3 objective, credible reason, not necessarily 4 criminality before they may approach a suspect 5 and ask non-threatening questions. In other 6 words, the police officer does not have to - 7 does not have to know that there was a crime 8 committed or suspect that a crime has been 9 committed but must have an objective, credible 10 reason to approach a person in a public place. 11 Secondly, the People vs. Doaks 12 case, which was another rather famous case which 13 stated that a person -- a case was thrown out or 14 a number of convictions were thrown out simply 15 because the defendant was not present at some 16 portion of the trial. In one case the defense 17 attorney, in fact, not only didn't object but 18 consented, but because the person wasn't there 19 when a remark was made that could be prejudicial 20 to him, the -- the judge on the appeal threw out 21 the case. 22 That relates, by the way, to 23 another case also that says that although there 24 may have been a mistake made or prejudice in the 25 case, if it turns out that the -- it could be 7672 1 considered to be harmless error on appeal, then 2 the alleged violations are to be disregarded. 3 That case -- the harmless error case -- of 4 course, pertained to a series of cases that have 5 been decided primarily before the Court of 6 Appeals, or in some cases the Appellate 7 Division. 8 So there's three separate areas, 9 the harmless error area, the stopping a person 10 with objective, credible evidence and the issue 11 of whether the defendant has to be present 12 despite a waiver at any area of the trial. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Waldon. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Would you ask 17 the learned gentleman from the northwest of the 18 state if he would yield to a question. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 23 I appreciate your yielding. I was reading the 24 language of the bill and came to sentence 13 25 which says, "*** when he has an objective - 7673 1 SENATOR VOLKER: M-m h-m-m. 2 SENATOR WALDON: -- comma, - 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 4 SENATOR WALDON: -- credible 5 reason - 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Right. 7 SENATOR WALDON: -- not 8 necessarily indicative of criminality ***". Can 9 you give me and our colleagues an example of an 10 objective, credible reason not necessarily 11 indicative of criminality as covered by this 12 proposal? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: As we -- I think 14 the last time we discussed this, I discussed the 15 -- the incidents that related to the health and 16 safety, for instance, of someone who was 17 questioned in the street where a police officer 18 stopped a person and thought that the 19 possibility that that person may be ill or in 20 some case may have been part of an incident that 21 may not necessarily be a criminal -- be a 22 criminal act, and that that person would then be 23 allowed to question. 24 There have been several cases, by 25 the way, where a person was stopped, it was 7674 1 thought, to make certain that the person for 2 some reason was in some sort of trouble and was 3 found to have committed a criminal act and the 4 case was thrown out because the court said no, 5 that the police officer had no reason to stop 6 that person because he didn't believe there was 7 a crime, but under this provision, the person 8 could be stopped because the officer would have 9 an objective, credible reason not necessarily 10 indicative of criminality. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President, 12 would the gentleman continue to yield? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 continues to yield. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Volker, 17 let's accept your hypothetical for discussion 18 sake, for dialogue's sake and for edification 19 purposes, and let's assume that the person was 20 sick, so the officer stopped the person, asked 21 some questions, determined that the person was 22 sick, would the proper and appropriate response 23 to that apparent illness be to find medical 24 attention for the person or to arrest and search 25 the person's body and/or car? 7675 1 SENATOR VOLKER: I think the 2 problem is that whether -- if the proper 3 treatment, the proper action may have been 4 intended to be to treat that person, but if some 5 sort of weapon or something was found on that 6 person, then arrest may follow. 7 The problem is that what the 8 courts have done in certain cases is said, even 9 though the -- there may have been some reason, 10 if that reason was other than criminality, then 11 weapons have been thrown out, and all sorts of 12 cases have been thrown out on the basis of the 13 fact that the police officer really didn't 14 question that person believing that there had 15 been a crime committed or was about to be 16 committed. 17 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 18 gentleman continue to yield, Mr. President? 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 continues to yield. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thanks, Mr. 23 President. Thanks, Senator Volker. 24 Let's assume that there was no 25 weapon found, that the hypothetical I have 7676 1 presented to you which obviously wasn't clear in 2 my presentation to you, I did not mention a 3 weapon or other criminal purpose that would 4 allow the officer to search and seize, but let's 5 take a hypothetical that's very clean. 6 There's no weapon, there's no 7 criminality. In your opinion, as a member of 8 the bar and a distinguished member of this 9 Legislature, as someone who understands better 10 than perhaps anyone in the state our criminal 11 law from a legislative perspective, would there 12 be a reason for the officer to search the person 13 or his or her car? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Probably not. 15 SENATOR WALDON: I looked also, 16 Senator Volker, if I may continue, if the 17 gentleman continues to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 19 continues to yield. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 21 SENATOR WALDON: I looked further 22 at your proposal, and I turn to the back of the 23 proposal on page 2, and it speaks to your 24 concern mentioned earlier in the explanation 25 about why cases are thrown out, that the 7677 1 defendant wasn't there or someone uttered a 2 remark that was conceived as prejudicial and it 3 was thrown out, and all of that. 4 Do you think that the founding 5 fathers were mistaken when they gave certain 6 constitutional guarantees to the people of this 7 great nation in regard to the limits, 8 perameters, placed upon not just the police 9 officers, but even our court system in regard to 10 the freedom of people in this nation? 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I know 12 you asked that question of me in very good 13 faith, but that was the wrong question. If the 14 founding fathers ever knew what some of the 15 courts of this state have done with the 16 Constitution, they would be so horrified I'm 17 sure they'd find a way in that Constitution to 18 make sure that some of these judges would be in 19 caapable of making the decisions they've made. 20 Senator, the decisions of some of 21 the -- in the Court of Appeals of this state, 22 not recently so much in the Supreme Court, have 23 been so hypertechnical and so out of control 24 with the founding fathers' original intent in 25 the Constitution, I don't think there's any 7678 1 question that those founding fathers would have 2 been absolutely horrified and would probably 3 have been much more explicit in making sure that 4 it was understood that if there's real criminal 5 activity, fine, then -- by enforcement people, 6 or mistakes being made that had something to do 7 with the innocence or guilt of that person, but 8 where there is no indication that it had any 9 real impact on the innocence or guilt of those 10 persons, I don't think there's any question that 11 the founding fathers of this state would have 12 been horrified. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 14 much, Senator Volker. 15 If I may, Mr. President, on the 16 bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 18 Waldon, on the bill. 19 SENATOR WALDON: I am wont to 20 disagree with you, Senator Volker, because you 21 are truly one of the well informed persons in 22 our legislative body, but in this instance I 23 must absolutely disagree with you. 24 I believe that our founding 25 fathers would be incensed by the fact that what 7679 1 the Governor is proposing so skews the letter 2 and intent of our constitutional guarantees. I 3 don't think the founding fathers ever intended 4 for the police, without reason, without 5 provocation, to just stop people in the street 6 because they fit a so-called, if I may, in 7 quotes, "profile", a "hunch". 8 You were once a police officer; 9 so was I, and I'm sure that you had a feeling as 10 I did in many instances, I could smell, I could 11 feel, I could sense that something was going on 12 but I just couldn't stop people and throw them 13 on the wall and search them and, if I happened 14 to come up with something, could arrest them. 15 It wasn't permitted then, and it shouldn't be 16 permitted now. 17 Let me share something with you 18 that I may have shared in other venues, either 19 in committee or when I happened to be visiting 20 with you in your office. 21 I witnessed personally three 22 instances where police officers stopped young 23 black men who happened to be driving nice cars. 24 They searched the person of the young men, all 25 of whom were college students, happened to be 7680 1 home on holiday, searched their cars. 2 I jumped out of my car and 3 interceded. Once the officers realized who I 4 was, they sped away. I asked the young men, 5 after I gave them my card, to let me be your 6 advocate. This is wrong. Let me be the one who 7 prevails upon the police department and the 8 mayor of the city of New York to stop this 9 foolishness. They were frightened. These are 10 college students, the best that my community has 11 to offer. Their parents can afford in St. 12 Albans and Addison Park, Laurelton and 13 Springfield Gardens, Cambria Heights and 14 Rosedale and Queens Village, to buy these cars 15 for these children. I know, I bought one for my 16 son and I occasionally now have to ask him, May 17 I borrow the best car in the house? 18 The police are stopping young 19 black men in southeast Queens with abandon, 20 searching them and searching their cars without 21 provocation. In each of the three instances 22 they found no "reefers", no liquor, no lights 23 out, no rationale for stopping them. They just 24 happened to be two young black men in each of 25 the instances in a car, minding their own 7681 1 business. It was my view at that moment in each 2 of the instances that the only thing they had 3 done was be black. The only thing that they had 4 done was to be black. 5 As a result of that, with the 6 cooperation of a very distinguished trainer in 7 this nation, highly regarded at Quantico at the 8 FBI Academy and across the nation, I with 9 $10,000 of my discretionary funds put on a 10 seminar and training series for young blacks so 11 that if they were stopped by the police their 12 actions would not exacerbate the stop into 13 something that could result in their being 14 arrested, because some young blacks have an 15 attitude. They don't like to be stopped when 16 they haven't done something that's wrong. But I 17 recognize that they lose, that it's a lose-lose 18 situation for them. 19 We did the seminar, and we gave 20 the training, but the stops continued, so I'm 21 now in the process of preparing a pamphlet. 22 We're waiting for one picture for the pamphlet 23 and the addition of one organization to show 24 fairness in terms of the police department. 25 This pamphlet will explain to people when you 7682 1 can be stopped, what are the reasons you can be 2 stopped, what you must do -- not resist, not 3 give the police a hard time, for several 4 reasons. One, you don't want to exacerbate it 5 and, two, it is the right of the police after a 6 certain series of actions to follow through with 7 what they're doing. 8 So my concern is that why should 9 our children have to go through such an 10 experience? Why should they be stopped and 11 searched and their cars searched without reason? 12 You know as well as I, Senator Volker, that this 13 nation stood up from a moral perspective to 14 fight the past laws of South Africa. We as a 15 nation felt that that kind of arbitrary and 16 punitive action on behalf of a government 17 against its minorities was wrong. 18 Lord Acton, the great British 19 philosopher said many, many years ago, You 20 determine the liberty of a nation by the freedom 21 of its minorities. We have a situation here 22 where, I think, the police in some instances, 23 not every cop, not every department, not every 24 city, but in some instances and at this moment 25 in New York City where the police have become 7683 1 most repressive under the current mayor, are 2 creating what is in effect a pass law 3 requirement, meaning if you're black and you 4 happen to be in a nice car in a nice community 5 where your parents can afford to take care of 6 business, you're still being stopped and treated 7 as if you are a skel', someone who's prone to 8 criminal behavior. 9 It is my belief, Senator Volker, 10 with all due respect to your analysis, that the 11 founding fathers of this nation would turn over 12 in their graves if they knew what was happening 13 with regard to the constitutional guarantees and 14 I would urge my colleagues to recognize that 15 this is a problem and to make the statement, a 16 moral statement on this legislation 1670 and 17 vote negative. 18 I thank you, Mr. President. I 19 certainly thank you, Senator Volker. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 21 last section. 22 Senator Volker. 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, if 24 I might just respond. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7684 1 Volker. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I think 3 you are right if that is happening. However, 4 this bill doesn't apply to that. This bill 5 applies to other stops; this doesn't apply to 6 car stops. This applies to stops in public 7 places. The issue of car stops is an entirely 8 different thing. 9 I would only warn you about 10 something though. As somebody who several times 11 was accused of various things because of car 12 stops, I remember one time I was accused of 13 stopping two young black fellows in a white 14 neighborhood and, in fact, a complaint was made 15 against me. One thing that the people didn't 16 know that made the complaint, however, was that 17 a car very similar to that car had been stolen 18 very shortly before, and we were trying to 19 verify that the vehicle involved was actually 20 stolen. We actually knew pretty well that the 21 vehicle was the vehicle that was stolen and what 22 we did was to stop the car and hold it 23 temporarily. The two young black fellows in the 24 car, of course, accused us of stopping them 25 strictly because they were black and about ten 7685 1 minutes later, after we received several threats 2 from various people, we verified the car was 3 stolen, and that the two young people in the car 4 were the car thieves. 5 The only reason I mention that is 6 that certainly that is the possibility, and if 7 it happens, by the way, and it happened as you 8 said, it's wrong. There's nothing in this bill 9 that would make that right or would change that 10 from being wrong. 11 What this bill talks about is the 12 fact that there are a great many injustices it 13 seems to me that are occurring on the street 14 where killings and serious crimes and serious 15 criminals are being allowed to escape because we 16 are over-techno'lizing our system. 17 For instance, one of the things 18 about stopping cars is, you can search a car and 19 if you find minor things in that car, it 20 appears, in other words implements for a 21 burglary or something comparably minor that's 22 fine, but in the (unintelligible) case, you find 23 a body it's too much and, therefore, you're not 24 going to be able to have a conviction upheld for 25 manslaughter or murder. 7686 1 So I've been told that some of 2 the -- these cases represent restrictions on 3 police officers that no other state in this 4 nation sanctions, so I think maybe these 5 sanctions are not quite as severe as they might 6 appear. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Explain my 8 vote. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Would you - 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 11 last section. Oh, I'm sorry. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm sorry. I 13 wanted to speak. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Leichter, on the bill. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 17 Volker, I apologize because I didn't hear 18 everything that you and Senator Waldon discussed 19 but I -- I think one of the real problems that I 20 see with this bill is in line 16 where you say 21 the officer may not only ask questions but take 22 such other action as the officer deems 23 appropriate. 24 If you discussed it with Senator 25 Waldon, I withdraw the question, but if you 7687 1 didn't, it just seems to me that's an enormous 2 loophole, it's such vagueness. What does it 3 mean, such other action as the officer deems 4 appropriate? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, 6 probably (unintelligible) that section out 7 because it means that the officer has to act 8 reasonably. I think that language is in there 9 because it's trying to indicate that through 10 courts who maybe -- maybe the courts have not 11 followed logic, that an officer can take such 12 actions as may be reasonable under the 13 circumstances. 14 Incidentally, Senator, when I 15 trained young police officers who have said to 16 me, How am I supposed to be able to operate in 17 this society? You almost have to be a lawyer to 18 be out there in the street. I said, I'll tell 19 you how you do it. You act reasonably under the 20 circumstances, and 99 percent of the time, 21 you'll be all right. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 just this one final point to Senator Volker. 24 Senator, if the bill said that he acts 25 reasonably under the circumstances that may be 7688 1 acceptable, but acting reasonably under the 2 circumstances is totally different than what is 3 written here. It says, as the officer deems 4 appropriate, doesn't even impose any standard, 5 makes it a subjective standard, as the officer 6 deems appropriate, so if he deems it appropriate 7 even if it's unreasonable, as you've written it, 8 now maybe the courts will impose the standard of 9 reasonableness, but you would be much better off 10 if it were to be drafted as you sought to 11 interpret the bill; that should have been the 12 language. 13 I understand it wasn't drafted by 14 you; it was drafted on the second floor. Maybe 15 they should have checked with you. Just very 16 briefly on the bill, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 18 Leichter, on the bill. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: I know the 20 hour is late, and people look, Oh, my God, why 21 is he debating this thing, but we're dealing 22 with a terribly important issue. Senator Waldon 23 and I didn't ask you to bring this bill up at 24 5:15 in the morning, and I'm sorry but if you do 25 bring up such a bill, then it's certainly the 7689 1 responsibility and particularly on something 2 that deals with such fundamental constitutional 3 issues and basic rights, but I think to say not 4 only may a police officer stop people and ask 5 questions, and I think Senator Waldon properly 6 pointed out some of the difficulties and 7 problems with that, but then to go on and say 8 that he may take any action that he deems 9 appropriate, that's just not right. 10 I don't think that's consistent 11 with our basic fundamental beliefs of what 12 liberty is and the rights that we have. I mean 13 I was born in a society and I was chased out of 14 a society, you know, where they could stop you 15 for any reason and grab you and hold you and do 16 these things. One of the things that makes the 17 country so special is that we do impose pretty 18 severe restrictions on law enforcement officials 19 because we believe basic liberties are so 20 important. 21 This bill impinges on those 22 liberties, and I would urge you to vote against 23 it. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section. 7690 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Waldon, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR WALDON: Thanks very 9 much, Mr. President. 10 I apologize, Senator Volker, in 11 trying to make my point, I used three instances 12 I had personally viewed. I assure you when I 13 spoke at Rochedale Village with Senator -- I 14 mean Comptroller McCall there, that there were a 15 great number of parents who came up to me and 16 told me of their children, teenagers and 17 adolescents being stopped, searched and harassed 18 and hassled by the police when they had done 19 nothing wrong. 20 I assure you that my office is 21 inundated with calls for this same reason, in a 22 very middle class area. The homes in Addison 23 Park, two blocks from my house, cost 500,000 or 24 more dollars. The homes in the little 25 neighborhood where I live run a deuce, a deuce 7691 1 and a quarter, and the people who live there are 2 hard working, law abiding citizens and their 3 children should not be subjected to this simply 4 because they're black. 5 Now, I'm not railing against the 6 process simply to be heard. We have a problem 7 in New York. We have a problem in this nation, 8 and we may wish to bury our heads in the sand 9 and not face up to the problem, but the problem 10 is real. In the country from which Senator 11 Leichter and his family fled, America stood by 12 silently. The church of which I am a member, 13 the Catholic Church, stood by silently and the 14 result was millions and millions and millions of 15 people lost their lives. 16 I hope that we will be a bit more 17 judicious in our approach. I am telling you, I 18 am telling you with all the sincerity I have in 19 my body and mind and spirit, that we have a 20 problem of racism and absolute discrimination by 21 the police in the city of New York. I can't 22 speak for other places, and we as a legislative 23 body, the conscience of this state should be 24 mindful of that and should attempt to do 25 something, not make the process more punitive 7692 1 but open up the process that young black kids 2 who all they want to do is to have a shot at 3 life shouldn't be hassled by the police. 4 I thank you very much, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Waldon will be recorded in the negative. 8 THE SECRETGARY: Those recorded 9 in the negative on Calendar 1670 are Senators 10 Abate, Connor, Leichter, Paterson, Sampson, 11 Smith, and Waldon. Ayes 50, nays 7. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Leibell. 15 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 16 I'd like to ask to have unanimous consent to 17 vote in the negative on 1663. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 19 objection, Senator Leibell will be recorded in 20 the negative on Calendar 1663. 21 Senator Holland. 22 SENATOR HOLLAND: I would also 23 like to be recorded in the negative on 1663, 24 please. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 7693 1 objection, Senator Holland will be recorded in 2 the negative on 1663. 3 Senator Skelos, that -- Senator 4 Stafford? 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. President, 6 I believe that we would like to call a Finance 7 meeting in Room 332. Room 332, Finance 8 meeting. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 Finance Committee will meet in Room 332 11 immediately. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: We'll stand at 14 ease pending the report of the Finance 15 Committee. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senate 17 will stand at ease pending the report of the 18 Finance Committee. 19 I'm sorry. Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President, 21 at the conclusion of the Finance Committee there 22 will be a Minority Conference in the Minority 23 Conference Room. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: At the 25 conclusion of the Finance Committee, there will 7694 1 be a meeting of the Minority Conference in the 2 Minority Conference Room. 3 The Senate will stand at ease 4 pending the report of the Finance Committee. 5 Thank you. 6 (The Senate stood at ease from 7 5:22 a.m. until 6:41 a.m.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 11 return to reports of standing committees, I 12 believe there's a report of the Finance 13 Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 15 Report of Finance Committee. Secretary will 16 read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stafford, 18 from the Committee on Finance, offers up the 19 following bills: 20 Senate Print 700-A, Budget Bill, 21 an act making appropriation for the support of 22 government; 23 5788, by the Committee on Rules, 24 an act to amend the Education Law. 25 Both bills directly for third 7695 1 reading. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept 3 the report of the Finance Committee. 4 I believe there's a substitution 5 to be made. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7 Secretary will read the substitution. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin 9 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 10 Assembly Print 8448-A and substitute it for the 11 identical Third Reading, Senate bill 827. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 13 Substitution ordered. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Read the last 15 section. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 17 Secretary will read the bill. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 21 Senator Dollinger, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just a point 23 of order, Mr. President. Could you tell us 24 which bill this is? 25 SENATOR SKELOS: The original 7696 1 Calendar Number 66, Senate Number 8452-B, 2 Calendar Number 827. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 4 Secretary will read the bill. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 827, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Print 8448-A, an act to amend the 8 General Municipal Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Last 10 section. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 13 Explanation is asked for. 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 16 Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: This bill will 18 amend the General Municipal Law with regard to 19 the Industrial Development Agencies to provide 20 expanded opportunities for IDAs to finance not 21 for-profit medical facilities, facilities for 22 the aging and dormitories for educational 23 institutions. 24 We have capped these projects at 25 $15 million. In addition, there's been major 7697 1 reforms instituted herein. Several have been 2 included in this legislation to ensure that 3 IDAs' responsibility for accounting are 4 tightened up and specifically we will be 5 requiring them to re-adopt their uniform tax 6 exemption policy before April the 1st, 1999 and 7 will be required to hold a public hearing before 8 any deviation is made from that policy. 9 This bill represents what we 10 consider an excellent balance of the enhanced 11 accountability and increased business 12 opportunity combined. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 14 Senator Leichter. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 16 would Senator Larkin yield to a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 18 Senator Larkin, do you yield? Senator yields. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 20 Larkin, one of the additional powers it seems 21 that you give to the IDA in this bill is to do 22 some construction for the United Nations. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: That's been 24 stricken. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is it? Because 7698 1 it's in your memo. I see your memo is on the 2 eighth ranking. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Computers are 4 working overtime on other things, Senator, and 5 we're catching up on the other items. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 7 Larkin, if you continue to yield. One of the 8 problems we've had with IDA is that they've not 9 always been responsive to local governments. 10 They also affect local tax base. Now, who's 11 going to make the decision as to constructing 12 these so-called civic facilities? Is that going 13 to be up to the IDA? Are they going to exercise 14 that authority separate and apart from 15 authorization from local governments? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, the IDA 17 still has the -- they have to come to the IDA 18 and through the local government and asking for 19 the utilization of an IDA to construct a certain 20 project. Then you have two forces there. You 21 have the local government, want to be a 22 participant, and the IDA, and they both must 23 have an agreement. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 25 Larkin, if you would be so good as to continue 7699 1 to yield. 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 5 Senator continues to yield. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Suppose a 7 specific facility goes to an IDA and says we'd 8 like a new facility, can the IDA construct that 9 facility without going to local government and 10 getting the authorization of local government? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: Two things. 12 First of all, local government have asked for 13 their IDA, Senator. For an IDA to be active in 14 building a facility, it comes under the umbrella 15 of local government. What happens is that they 16 can build it because they have the 17 authorization. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, if 19 you continue to yield. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: IDAs may not 22 be set up without the participation of local 23 government. Now, we're dealing down the road 24 some years with a a civic facility comes to an 25 IDA and says, Build us something. Does that IDA 7700 1 have to get the consent and the approval of 2 local government before it can do that? 3 SENATOR LARKIN: I think, 4 Senator, if you'll look at the detail there, 5 you'll find out that what we have not added any 6 great extra amount of work on here. All we've 7 given them is the expanded power to do some 8 work, but when you look at their accountability 9 and what they're required to do, we're 10 tightening it up. 11 More important, under what we're 12 doing, you're going to find more input from 13 local government. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you very 15 much, Mr. -- Senator Larkin. Mr. President, 16 just briefly on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 18 Senator Leichter, on the bill. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: We've created 20 IDAs really as an economic development vehicle. 21 We've had a lot of problems with IDAs because 22 the economic development that they've engaged in 23 very often has been at the expense of local 24 communities. They've competed with each other. 25 They've built the sort of facilities that really 7701 1 don't create jobs and, of course, they affect 2 the tax base of the local communities. 3 Now, to give them the authority 4 and the power to get involved in civic 5 facilities, which is totally outside what the 6 goal and the aim we had in mind when we 7 established the whole IDA system, but secondly, 8 to further have them act on matters that really 9 so intimately affect a municipality without 10 first getting the permission or the authority by 11 the municipality which is just not provided as I 12 see it in Senator Larkin's bill and that's also 13 going affect the tax liability of other people 14 in the community, because you're going to take 15 property off the tax rolls. 16 I really see no justification for 17 it. I think it's an unwise bill, not only at 18 7:00 a.m., in the morning, but even at a more 19 normal hour. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 25 the roll. 7702 1 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 3 Senator Maziarz. 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: To explain my 5 vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7 Senator Maziarz, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 9 just very, very briefly, I want to commend 10 Senator Larkin and his staff and the staff of 11 the Majority Leader for crafting an IDA bill 12 that even I could vote for, because I tend to 13 agree with Senator Leichter when it comes to 14 Industrial Development Agencies, but this bill, 15 although it does expand somewhat the ability of 16 Industrial Development Agencies, I think that it 17 also very correctly reinstitutes the 1993 IDA 18 reforms, and it further restricts Industrial 19 Development Agencies, but most importantly it 20 gives local governments, local taxing 21 authorities more information about Industrial 22 Development Agencies that are approved within 23 their district. 24 So, Mr. President, I will be 25 voting in the affirmative. Thank you. 7703 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Senator Maziarz in the affirmative. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 4 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 would you call up Calendar Number 1672. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 11 Calendar Number 1672. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1672, by the Committee on Rules, Senate Print 14 5788, an act to amend the Education Law. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 16 message of necessity and appropriation at the 17 desk? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 19 Message is at the desk. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 22 Motion is to accept the message of necessity. 23 All in favor say aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.") 25 All opposed, nay. 7704 1 (There was no response.) 2 The ayes have it. The message is 3 accepted. Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 acts shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 12 Senators Dollinger and Leichter recorded in the 13 negative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 15 bill is passed. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Stand at ease. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: House 18 will stand at ease. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 22 Senator Montgomery, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 24 President. I would like to have unanimous 25 consent to be recorded in the negative on 7705 1 Calendars 1660 and 1670. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: With 3 unanimous consent, Senator Montgomery will be 4 recorded in the negative -- Senator Montgomery, 5 the clerk has had a hard time hearing you and 6 would you mind repeating those numbers? 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Calendars 8 1660 and 1670. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: So 10 ordered. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 12 (The Senate stood at ease from 13 6:56 to 7:48 a.m.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 if we could return now to messages from the 18 Assembly. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 20 Chair hands down a message from the Assembly. 21 Secretary will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: The Assembly sent 23 for concurrence Assembly Print 8653, by the 24 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 25 State Law. 7706 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Third reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Third 5 reading. Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1684, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 8 Assembly Print 8653, an act to amend the State 9 Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 54, nays 3, 20 those recorded - 21 SENATOR GOLD: Hold it. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 23 Senator Kruger, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes, Mr. 25 President, to explain my vote. Today we are 7707 1 given a set of boundaries that basically 2 represent planning in a vacuum. It represents a 3 lack of opportunity for community input. It 4 represents a lack of opportunity for digestion 5 of what is otherwise a reckless disregard for 6 what reapportionment is supposed to do. 7 Reapportionment, in its true 8 sense of the word, is supposed to define lines 9 that protect natural boundaries, that respect 10 political divisions, that concern themselves 11 with the history of communities, that are 12 compact and, most importantly, are respective of 13 the neighborhoods that these lines are supposed 14 to serve, and the lines that each legislator 15 has. 16 Interestingly enough, if I can 17 just go back for a second. This bill, as it 18 presently is constituted is an effort to correct 19 a corridor to make what we call the Bullwinkle 20 district, the district that is currently 21 represented by Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez, in 22 compliance with current law. In an effort to do 23 that, the leadership of both the Assembly and 24 the Senate has attempted to develop a set of 25 lines that basically destroys neighborhoods. 7708 1 If we're to look at particular 2 districts, we see today that lines have been 3 drawn in two districts in particular. One 4 district that is represented by Congressman 5 Edward Towns takes neighborhoods such as 6 Canarsie -- Edolphus Towns, Ed Towns -- takes 7 neighborhoods such as Canarsie, Mill Basin, 8 Bergen Beach, Georgetown, Futurama, Marine Park 9 and Flatbush, and bifurcates them from what was 10 normally a district that was compact, that was 11 contiguous, that was represented by current 12 Congressman Chuck Schumer, and more particularly 13 was an effort when it was originally constituted 14 to protect communities. 15 We resent it. We object to it. 16 There is a legislative commission that was 17 formed, the Legislative Commission on 18 Demographic Reapportionment, of which I am a 19 member, that never met to consider this 20 legislation. For so many years, when other 21 bills were proposed, there was at least the 22 charade, there was an effort made to go into 23 communities, to get input, to speak to 24 constituents, to develop a set of lines that 25 made sense. 7709 1 Well, in this particular eleventh 2 hour move, a move of desperation, we are faced 3 with what I view to be a set of lines that 4 ultimately will be declared void by the courts. 5 We face the possibility of a master being 6 appointed to come in and draw lines that truly 7 reflect the values that we speak about and, more 8 particularly, once again the Majority of this 9 house in consonance with the Majority in the 10 Assembly, disregarding the legislative process 11 and disregarding every member of this house, 12 decided on a set of lines that truly destroys 13 and is not representative of what we should 14 represent and what we should say a Congressional 15 District would be. 16 I urge my colleagues to vote 17 against these lines. I urge those that are in a 18 position to look at them to bring the matter 19 before the courts and hopefully they will be 20 declared void. 21 Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 23 Senator, how do you vote? 24 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7710 1 Senator Dollinger? 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yield to 3 Senator Connor. 4 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 Mr. President, the court, as we 7 all know, the federal court ruled it 8 unconstitutional, the existing Congressional 9 lines. At that time and several times 10 subsequently in discussions with the Speaker, 11 the conclusion was that the way to proceed 12 perhaps would be to have the members of the 13 Congressional delegation who are affected -- in 14 this case we are affecting five Congressional 15 District lines -- to meet and develop a 16 consensus plan that would meet legal and 17 constitutional requirements. 18 In those early stages, I was 19 involved in some of discussions that arrived at 20 that principle. Subsequently the members of the 21 delegation had many different meetings and 22 indeed I would get called up until last week, 23 somebody had a map here, somebody had a map 24 there, all which they had drafted and they were 25 passing around among themselves. 7711 1 I learned very late on Friday 2 that the final conclusion was, if not exactly 3 what we have before us, quite similar. There 4 are good points in this obviously. The good 5 points are, I believe legal requirements are 6 met. I believe, for the benefit of the 7 continuity represented -- of representation of 8 most of the constituents involved, that the - 9 we have preserved that continuity of 10 representation which some people would call 11 incumbency protection. 12 That's good for a variety of 13 reasons. I believe we'll keep the kind of 14 diversity in the Congressional delegation from 15 Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan that's 16 appropriate, that's been the tradition in New 17 York with that, basing it on really, really 18 race-based drawing considerations but rather on 19 relatively compact contiguous districts. 20 The one thing about which I am 21 chagrinned and indeed have been by certain 22 constituents in the last few days accused of 23 engineering, which is not true, indeed I didn't 24 see it until the bill was in print and on the 25 desks, and that is the fact that the boundary 7712 1 lines between the 10th and 12th Congressional 2 Districts divide significant portions of my 3 district, indeed what I would characterize as my 4 political base, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill and 5 Brooklyn Heights. It divides the Brooklyn 6 Heights community, New York's first landmark 7 district, Cobble Hill, another landmark historic 8 district, Carroll Gardens, dividing them by 9 going up Henry Street, taking a right-hand turn 10 on Pierpont Street. Indeed, I live on Pierpont 11 Street and I'm now one of those people who 12 wonder why those people across the street have a 13 different member of Congress than I, and I am 14 not -- I'm not happy about that. Indeed, I'm 15 quite upset. 16 More importantly, those 17 neighborhoods I represent are the kind of 18 neighborhoods that clearly understand that it is 19 not better to be represented by two 20 representatives in Congress because you're an 21 insignificant part of the constituency in both 22 rather than being a substantial part of the 23 constituency in one district. 24 I can't help but be wondering, 25 and I won't go into it, that certain current 7713 1 political events in Brooklyn may have motivated 2 one of the incumbents to select the boundaries 3 since indeed in my neighborhood I am now out of 4 the Congressional District I've been in. My 5 Assemblywoman is out of the Assembly District 6 that we've been in, and indeed our City Council 7 man is out of the Congressional District that he 8 has been in, thus every political official in 9 our neighborhood. 10 With respect to that, a fate 11 similar to that we've heard from Senator 12 Kruger's area, so while legally -- legally 13 neighborhoods are not sacrosanct and indeed the 14 Congressional redistricting in the Constitution 15 and the decisions pursuant to it mandate 16 absolute numerical equality between districts, 17 indeed they can deviate only by one person, and, 18 therefore, in the blind pursuit of this -- and 19 there's not much we can do about that since it's 20 federal law -- we do ignore somewhere or other 21 traditional neighborhoods. 22 I think as a matter of policy, if 23 it's a matter of policy, it would have been 24 better had this plan respected these important 25 neighborhoods in Brooklyn. It didn't. I wrote 7714 1 to the Speaker and asked him to correct this. 2 He responded, of course, that he had proceeded 3 on the basis of the members of Congress affected 4 in drawing the lines and agreeing to them 5 subject to legal requirements which they met and 6 it was indeed clear who the architect of this 7 is. 8 But, Mr. President, on behalf of 9 the people I represent and I've represented 10 these past 20 years, I want to make it very 11 plain. I think it's outrageous these 12 neighborhoods have been divided, and I am voting 13 no. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 15 Record the negatives. Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1684 are 18 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Kruger, Sampson and 19 Smith. Ayes 52, nays 5. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 21 bill is passed. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 on Calendar -- Supplemental Calendar 66-A, would 24 you call up Senator Alesi's bill, Calendar 25 1655. 7715 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Calendar 1655. Clerk will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1655, in relation to Calendar Number 1655 5 Senator Alesi moves to discharge from the 6 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 8003-B and 7 substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 8 Third Reading 1655. The Senate bill is high, 9 the Assembly bill is not. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 11 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1655, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print 8003-B, an act to amend the 15 Education Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 21 the results. Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57.. 24 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 7716 1 bill is passed. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 3 Senator Gold. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, Mr. 5 President. May I have unanimous consent to be 6 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 7 1670. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 1670, 9 without objection. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 we'll stand at ease, stand or sit at ease. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 14 house will be at ease. 15 (The Senate stood at ease from 16 8:03 to 8:29 a.m.) 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 18 at this time if you'd call up Calendar Number 19 1667. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 21 Calendar 1667. Clerk will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1667, Budget Bill, Senate 700-A, Legislature and 24 Judiciary Budget. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7717 1 is there a message of necessity and 2 appropriation at the desk? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 4 Messages are appropriately at the desk. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7 Motion is to accept the message. All in favor 8 say aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 All opposed, nay. 11 (There was no response. ) The 12 message is accepted. Last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Bill 20 is reported. The bill is lost. The bill is 21 passed. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 would you recall the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 25 Senator Leichter, why do you rise? 7718 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 2 may we reconsider the vote on the bill that just 3 passed? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Re 5 consider? Call the vote on reconsideration. 6 (The Secretary called the roll on 7 reconsideration. ) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIIO: 12 Senator Leichter. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is that bill 14 before us now, Mr. President? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Yes. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is there an 17 amendment at the desk, please? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 19 amendment is at the desk. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 21 I waive the reading of the amendment and ask an 22 opportunity to explain it. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 24 Senator Leichter, I believe that -- on the 25 amendment. 7719 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 My colleagues, just because it's 4 8:30 a.m., and we've been in session for about 5 20 straight hours, and we're staggering to 6 conclusion like punch-drunk fighters. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Point of order. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Point 11 of order. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: I've reviewed 13 the amendment, and I believe under the Bankers 14 decision, it would be out of order to change the 15 language of a budget bill, so, therefore, I'd 16 ask that you rule that Senator Leichter's 17 amendment is out of order. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 19 Chair has reviewed the amendment with the 20 parliamentarian, concur with your result and the 21 amendment is out of order. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 23 if I may be heard on it before you hastily rule 24 on it, even though my learned friend - 25 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7720 1 Senator Leichter, are you appealing the ruling 2 of the Chair? 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I'm asking 4 before you make your ruling that you have the 5 courtesy and the fairness to listen to both 6 sides of the argument. You've heard from 7 Senator Skelos. You ought to hear from me. 8 This amendment doesn't change any 9 language. It changes -- what it changes 10 essentially is some of the numbers, Senator 11 Skelos, and - 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Looking at the 13 amendment, Senator Leichter, it says strike out 14 all after "enact" and insert, so I would say 15 that you reasonably could say that you change 16 the entire language of the budget bill. So, 17 therefore, Mr. President, I would ask as I asked 18 once before, that Senator Leichter's amendment 19 be ruled out of order and if he wishes to appeal 20 the ruling of the Chair, of course, he has that 21 right. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 23 Senator Leichter, the ruling of the Chair is 24 that the amendment adds language. By doing so, 25 it violates the rules of this house and, 7721 1 therefore, the Chair rules respectfully that the 2 amendment is out of order. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, Mr. 4 President, I mean at this hour we can, fine, we 5 can just, you know, take a half an hour on the 6 appeal and then we can always discuss the bill 7 for two hours. After all, we've had a lot of 8 dead time and maybe that will fill some more 9 dead time. I mean I -- I'm feeling great, so I 10 was looking forward and didn't know what I would 11 do the next two hours. 12 I'm not going to do that because 13 I don't think it makes sense at this hour and I 14 was, frankly, going to take a very short time on 15 the amendment. I think the ruling is incorrect, 16 but I think at this hour we'll let it go. I 17 don't really intend to take much time with it. 18 I didn't want to deny any of you the treat of 19 having an opportunity to vote on the real 20 itemized legislative budget. I thought that 21 after the 20 gruelling hours we had, we should 22 have had something that would really give us 23 pleasure and delight, but Senator Skelos, 24 unfortunately, has interfered with that. 25 You know, we've been through this 7722 1 every year and every year I've gotten up and 2 I've said that what we have before us is not an 3 itemized budget. Obviously it is not. The 4 budget we have now has the very same format as 5 the budget that we've had in all these years and 6 we still continue to have the Legislature 7 abrogate to itself a privileged position. We're 8 immune from having the public know - 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 10 Senator Leichter, are you appealing the ruling 11 of the Chair? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, but if you 13 want me to, Mr. President, if you'd like an 14 appeal, I'll appeal it. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 16 Senator - 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm speaking 18 on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 20 Senator, that's the point of inquiry of the 21 Chair. Respectfully, we are asking whether you 22 have withdrawn your amendment and are now 23 speaking on the bill. As you responded, you 24 have withdrawn the amendment, and Senator 25 Leichter, on the bill. 7723 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Thank you. 2 Mr. President, I've not withdrawn the 3 amendment. I think you've incorrectly ruled it 4 out of order, and I made it clear that I wasn't 5 going to appeal the ruling, although I could. I 6 would just speak on the bill. That's what I was 7 in the process of doing. 8 Mr. President, and my colleagues, 9 I just think it's unfortunate that we just 10 insist on thumbing our nose at the public in 11 saying we can have a budget that is really not a 12 budget, that's a fraud, that's a hoax, that 13 doesn't describe in detail how we spend public 14 money. 15 Two years ago, Senator Bruno, in 16 a dialogue that he and I had on this floor, said 17 that we will have an itemized budget. I 18 specifically asked him. I said, is it going to 19 show how much is going to be spent for personnel 20 for each member's office, and so on. He said, 21 Yes. He said, You're going to be very happy 22 with it. 23 We've had absolutely no change 24 whatsoever. This is the same format that goes 25 back for years and years and years, and instead 7724 1 of revealing how we spend public money, it 2 shrouds that from public information and 3 knowledge. 4 What my amendment would have done 5 and what it did in other years, is it showed 6 what an itemized budgeted is like. It also 7 reduces the expenditure for the Legislature, 8 because I believe our expenditures are high. 9 Our budget tends to be bloated. We can 10 certainly reduce expenditures. This year, I 11 don't know by what percentage, the legislative 12 budget goes up, maybe three or four percent. I 13 just wish that we would finally come to grips 14 with a decent budget that we would have the 15 responsibility of letting the public in. 16 This is not a private club. This 17 is a public institution. We're dealing with 18 public monies. This budget should not be 19 enacted in this form. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 21 the last section. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 23 President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 25 Senator Dollinger, why do you rise? 7725 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 2 President, I in the past have supported Senator 3 Leichter's amendment and echoed his sentiments 4 about the need for greater accountability in 5 this institution, as we seek to achieve greater 6 accountability throughout the rest of the 7 state. 8 I simply rise because I do not 9 concur with the ruling of the Chair which would 10 have been made in this amendment had it not been 11 withdrawn, that the Bankers decision as I heard 12 it aired by Senator Skelos, that the Bankers 13 decision would foreclose this amendment. 14 Frankly, that was a new wrinkle that I had not 15 heard in this amendment previous times when 16 we've been under the dictates of the Bankers 17 decision. The amendment has never been ruled 18 out of order on that basis. 19 I'm simply reserving to another 20 day, Mr. President, I would be interested in 21 seeing from the Counsel to the Senate the logic 22 and law that seems to drives the notion that an 23 amendment such as that proposed by Senator 24 Leichter would be inconsistent with dictates of 25 the the Bankers decision. 7726 1 I agree with the substance of 2 it. I disagree with the articulation of the 3 basis for purportedly ruling it out of order and 4 I simply wanted to make that known at this 5 time. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 7 Senator Stafford. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, Senator, 9 you know, I'm the last one who will continue or 10 will make the debate last any longer than we 11 would want it to. As I say, usually I'm 12 criticized for not speaking enough, but that's 13 sort of going, because I've said that a little 14 too much lately. 15 Please let me share this with 16 you, however. I have here in my hand the third 17 publication of the New York State Senate 18 Expenditure Report. This one is October 1st, 19 1996-March 31, 1997. I, a number of times, have 20 complimented Senator Bruno and the 21 administration of this Majority upon the job 22 that they are doing and at the risk of being 23 redundant, let me please compliment them again. 24 If anyone wants to see exactly 25 how money is spent to the penny in this 7727 1 Legislature, I suggest that they -- it's not 2 funny. I suggest that they read this very 3 serious document because, when you open it, you 4 can go to the person and see exactly how the 5 money is spent to the penny, p-e-n-n... is it 6 i-e or -y - 7 VOICE: -y. 8 SENATOR STAFFORD: -y. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 while Senator Stafford is pausing - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an 14 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in the 15 Majority Conference Room. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 17 Immediate meeting of the Rules Committee. 18 Senator Stafford. 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 22 Pardon me, Senator Leichter. Get some order. 23 Senator Leichter. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 25 I just need to correct my good friend from the 7728 1 North Country. What you're bringing up is 2 something that tells me how you spent the 3 money. A budget tells you how you're going to 4 spend money, so there's really no relationship. 5 We should know before we vote money for the 6 Legislature how it is to be spent. That's my 7 point. 8 The fact that we have this book 9 that says how we spent money six months ago may 10 be helpful; it certainly satisfies a public need 11 and a public right, but it's not the same thing 12 as a detailed budget, and I'm sure you weren't 13 intimating that it was. 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, again - 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 16 Senator Stafford. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: I yield, and 18 was that a question? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, it was a 20 correction. 21 SENATOR STAFFORD: Oh. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 25 act shall take effect immediately. 7729 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 7 two, Senator Dollinger and Leichter recorded in 8 the negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: The 10 bill is passed. 11 Senator Maziarz. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Mr. President, 13 would the Senate stand at ease awaiting a report 14 of the Rules Committee. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 16 Senate will stand at ease. 17 (The Senate stood at ease from 18 8:43 to 9:05 a.m.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 will come to order. Members will take their 21 place, staffs find their place. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 24 on behalf of Senator Stafford, there will be an 25 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in 7730 1 the Majority Conference Room. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Immediate 3 meeting of the Finance Committee, immediate 4 meeting of the Finance Committee in the Majority 5 Conference Room, Room 332. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 if we could return to reports of standing 9 committees. I believe that there's a report of 10 the Rules Committee at the desk. I'd ask that 11 it be read. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 13 the order of reports of standing committees. 14 There is a report of the Rules Committee at the 15 desk. Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 17 from the Committee on Rules, offers up the 18 following bills: 19 2788, by Senator Trunzo, an act 20 to amend the Retirement and Social Security Law; 21 3272-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 22 to amend the General Municipal Law; 23 4237, by Senator Alesi an act to 24 authorize and direct; 25 5101-A, by Senator Trunzo, an act 7731 1 to amend the Social Security Law; 2 5638, by Senator Connor, an act 3 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 4 5791, by Senator Saland, an act 5 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 6 5794, by Senator Velella, an act 7 to amend the Insurance Law; 8 Assembly Print 8639, by the 9 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the Real 10 Property Tax Law; 11 Assembly Print 8670, by the 12 Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 13 Education Law; and 14 Senate Print 5796, by Senator 15 Lack, an act to amend the Court of Claims Act. 16 All bills directly for third 17 reading. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept 21 the report. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 23 to accept the report. All in favor say aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.") 25 Opposed nay. 7732 1 (There was no response.) 2 The report is accepted. The 3 bills are ordered directly to third reading. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: At this time if 6 we could take up Senate Supplemental Calendar 7 Number 66-C, non-controversial. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 9 Number 66-C, Supplemental, is on the members' 10 desks. Ask the Secretary to read the 11 non-controversial reading. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1676. In relation to Calendar Number 1676, 14 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge the Committee 15 on Rules from Assembly Print 7273 and substitute 16 it for the identical Senate Bill, Third Reading 17 Number 1676. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 19 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 20 the title. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1676, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano, 23 Assembly Print 3473, an act to amend the 24 Retirement and Social Security Law. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7733 1 will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1677. In relation to Calendar Number 1677, 12 Senator Trunzo moves to discharge from the 13 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 5864-A and 14 substitute it for the identical Senate Third 15 Reading 1677. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 18 the title. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1677, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano, 21 Assembly Print 5864-A, an act to amend the 22 General Municipal Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 24 a home rule message at the desk. Senator 25 Paterson, you want that laid aside? 7734 1 SENATOR PATERSON: No, I don't, 2 but Senator Leichter would. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1678. In relation to Calendar Number 1678 7 Senator Alesi moves to discharge from the 8 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 4572 and 9 substitute it for the identical Senate Third 10 Reading 1678. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 13 the title. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1678, by member of the Assembly Koon, Assembly 16 Print 4572, an act to authorize and direct the 17 Workers' Compensation Board. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 22 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 24 bill aside. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7735 1 1679, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print Number 2 5105-A, an act to amend the Retirement and 3 Social Security Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 9 bill aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1680, by Senator Connor, Senate Print 5630-A, an 12 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 27. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1681, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5791, an 25 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 7736 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 4 message of necessity at the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 6 is. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 9 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 10 Number 1681. All those in favor signify by 11 saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response.) 15 The message is accepted. The 16 bill is before the house. Secretary will read 17 the last section. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 20 bill aside. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1682, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5794, an 23 act to amend the Insurance Law. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 7737 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 2 is. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 5 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 6 Number 1682. All those in favor signify by 7 saying aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 Opposed nay. 10 (There was no response.) 11 The message is accepted. The 12 bill is before the house. Secretary will read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 15 act shall take effect on the first day of 16 January. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1683, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 25 Assembly Print 8639, an act to amend the Real 7738 1 Property Tax Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1685, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print 8670, an act to amend the 15 Education Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 19 message of necessity at the desk? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 21 is. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 24 to accept the message of necessity on Calendar 25 Number 1685. All those in favor signify by 7739 1 saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The message is accepted. Bill is 6 before the house. Secretary will read the last 7 section. Lay the bill aside. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Call up Calendar 9 Number 1685 at this time. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read the title of Calendar Number 1685. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1685, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Print 8670, an act to amend the 15 Education Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Explanation has been asked for, Senator Skelos. 18 Who's going to handle the explanation? 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Who asked? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Larkin, an explanation has been requested on 22 Calendar Number 1685 by Senator Dollinger. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 24 President. This legislation by Mr. Lentol 25 repeals an existing law that we had on a special 7740 1 school district in Orange County in the village 2 of Kyrias Joel and creates a new atmosphere of 3 establishing a school district based on the 4 guidelines of the federal court. 5 This new law allows two specific 6 purposes: One, by the superintendent of BOCES to 7 declare a school district, the other to 8 establish a vote by the members of the existing 9 school district of Monroe-Woodbury exclusive of 10 the residents of Kyrias Joel, and the third one 11 would be by the superintendent of the BOCES of 12 Orange County. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 16 Mr. President, will Senator Larkin yield to a 17 couple questions? 18 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this a 22 bill of general application across the state, 23 Senator Larkin? 24 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, it is. I 25 apologize, Senator Dollinger, but this bill 7741 1 could be applicable in any town or city. Its 2 boundaries are such that if it's within the 3 existing municipality or an existing part of an 4 existing school district, for example, within 5 the Monroe-Woodbury School District that 6 encompasses three parts, parts of three 7 municipalities, a whole municipality. It could 8 encompass Monroe County. As long as it has a 9 population of students of 2,000 students, then 10 it has the ingredients of, one, the vote of the 11 BOCES superintendent or the vote of the public 12 within the school district exclusive of that 13 segment that wants to declare their own school 14 district. 15 The third part, and I apologize, 16 is that if there is any existing debt that was 17 paid by the school district as a whole in Monroe 18 County and Niagara county, Nassau, Suffolk, it 19 would have to be repaid by the created school 20 district. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 22 Mr. President, if Senator Larkin would continue 23 to yield. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 7742 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 continues to yield. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there any 6 school district that you can identify in New 7 York State, any community in New York State that 8 the terms of this bill would apply to other than 9 Kyrias Joel? 10 SENATOR LARKIN: May I read you a 11 sentence, please? It just says any municipality 12 situated only within one central or union free 13 school district, but whose boundaries are not 14 co-terminous with the boundaries of such school 15 district may organize pursuant to the provision 16 of this subdivision. 17 That means a town, a village, 18 city can establish within its own right as long 19 as it's within that district. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 21 you, Mr. President if Senator Larkin would 22 continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 24 Larkin, do you continue to yield? 25 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, Mr. 7743 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator 5 Larkin, portions of the bill that we're 6 repealing today contained language that appeared 7 to have general application according to the New 8 York Court of Appeals -- appeared to have 9 language applicable to many communities but, in 10 fact, the bill we drafted last time and went to 11 the Court of Appeals was designed -- expressly 12 designed by this Legislature for one purpose, 13 solely to create a school district for the 14 community of Kyrias Joel. 15 My question is, is there anything 16 about this supposed general description that 17 would suggest to the Court of Appeals or any 18 other court that we are doing something that 19 doesn't apply to a specific school district for 20 this specific group which twice, the highest 21 court in this nation, the highest court in this 22 state, have said is unconstitutional to create? 23 SENATOR LARKIN: My legal 24 adviser. Senator Dollinger, when you read the 25 last part as pertains to a BOCES superintendent, 7744 1 the language is expressly taken from Section 2 1504 of the state Education Law which authorizes 3 the superintendent of a BOCES to create this 4 specific type of a district. 5 Also if you're looking at what 6 has been talked about in the charter schools 7 this would be the same language we would talk 8 about of a charter school, so it could be in any 9 place in the state using the guidelines you have 10 here. 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But again 12 through you, Mr. President, if Senator Larkin 13 would continue to yield, and I understand, 14 Senator, that this may or may not be your bill, 15 you're doing this on behalf of the Rules 16 Committee, but could you tell me of any other 17 community in the state other than Kyrias Joel 18 which would utilize the provisions of this 19 statute which we have before us today to create 20 a school district? 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes, they 22 could. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The bill 24 doesn't say that. 25 SENATOR LARKIN: This doesn't say 7745 1 anything about any specific school district. It 2 gives you the general guidelines. It's a 3 generic as to how a school district would be 4 created, as long as it meets the criteria, 5 minimum of 2,000, that is within it; it can 6 either be by the superintendent of BOCES or if 7 the superintendent of BOCES says, "I don't want 8 to do it," it then goes back to the school 9 district which could be Monroe, it could be 10 Greece, it could be the Bronx, it could be -- if 11 there's a basic generic of how a school district 12 gets created. 13 If you remember your days back in 14 the county legislature when you saw towns and 15 village creating villages, creating themselves 16 out of a town, the same generic. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. Just on the bill. 19 Senator Larkin, I appreciate your 20 candor in describing the action of this bill, 21 but quite frankly, we in Monroe County never 22 created any more villages. Why? Because one of 23 the things we were trying to do was to 24 consolidate levels of government, not create new 25 levels of government. One of the things we've 7746 1 talked about in this Legislature is we've got 2 too many school districts. We should 3 consolidate them instead of opening new school 4 districts and, in fact, I would just counsel 5 everyone in this chamber, everyone in this 6 chamber, take a very, very careful look at this 7 bill because in my personal opinion having been 8 told by the United States Supreme Court that we 9 couldn't do this, having been told by the Court 10 of Appeals that we can't do this because it 11 violates one of the most important protections 12 in both our state Constitution and our federal 13 Constitution, if I were on the Court of Appeals 14 and I determined that what the Legislature was 15 doing was trying to get around my decision, if I 16 were on the Court of Appeals or the United 17 States Supreme Court, I would hold this 18 Legislature, this state, in contempt for 19 attempting to do it, because what I think you 20 have here is a situation where we, for some 21 reason, are attempting to create a school 22 district which we've been told by all of our 23 courts violates the First Amendment. 24 I cannot do it. I voted against 25 it last time. I would suggest that all of us 7747 1 think about voting for this bill very carefully 2 have, because once again, we are attempting to 3 evade the highest law in this land, the highest 4 law in this state, if this bill runs into the 5 same problem that the last attempt did, we could 6 be held in contempt and that could be very 7 costly to the people of this state. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Gold. 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 11 everybody really understands what we're doing 12 here. There's a very unique situation, and the 13 members of the Legislature, and I think at least 14 two governors have recognized that it's a unique 15 situation and we ought to do something about it 16 and we're trying to do something about it. 17 Senator Dollinger, as you were 18 speaking, I was reminded of a news broadcast 19 that I heard within the last 48 hours and they 20 were talking about some federal tax legislation 21 and how people should talk to their accountants 22 right away. And what did it all mean? It meant 23 that two Americans, two hard working Americans 24 who make the same money, the same kind of lives, 25 one is going to pay more taxes than the other 7748 1 unless that one goes to an accountant, to a 2 lawyer, to figure out how you get around the tax 3 law. 4 Now, Senator Dollinger, I think 5 it's absurd. I think it's absurd that you 6 should have to know the tricks in order to 7 protect income from taxes, et cetera, and if you 8 know the tricks then you get around it. But in 9 America, we have said that you are allowed to 10 try to get around laws for as long as you do it 11 legally. 12 All this Legislature is trying to 13 do, Senator Dollinger, is exactly what you 14 said. The courts have given us decisions we 15 don't like. We see a situation which needs us 16 and we are trying to find a way around it and, 17 if the courts don't like this one, well, maybe 18 Senator Larkin and I and others will be back 19 with another solution because there is a unique 20 situation which needs a remedy, and I use the 21 tax situation as an example because that's 22 exactly what we do in 89,000 other things in 23 America. We come out with a rule and then we 24 have rules that get around the rules in order to 25 take care of other situations, and if we can do 7749 1 it for rich people, we can do it for this school 2 district that really needs the help. 3 I'm going to vote for this bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 5 will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the negatives and announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 14 one, Senator Dollinger recorded in the 15 negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 17 is passed. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 20 would you call up Calendar Number 1686. The 21 bill is on the desk. It doesn't show on the 22 calendar, by Senator Lack, Senate 5796. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 24 will read Calendar Number 1686. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7750 1 1686, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 5796, an act 2 to amend the Court of Claims Act. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 4 message of necessity at the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 6 is. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 9 to accept the message of necessity on 1686. All 10 those in favor signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed nay. 13 (There was no response.) 14 The message is accepted. Bill is 15 before the house. An explanation has been 16 requested by Senator Dollinger. 17 Senator Lack. 18 SENATOR LACK: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 5796 which is -- has just been 21 put on your desk, was until approximately 45 22 minutes ago in a three-way agreed-upon addition 23 to the judicial system. It is at this point in 24 time not agreed upon. The Assembly has not 25 agreed to the provisions of 5796, but for our 7751 1 edification, why don't I go through what's 2 contained in the bill. 3 The bill would create 14 judge 4 ships, all of which are certified and approved 5 as necessary by the Office of Court 6 Administration: Four Court of Claims "A" judge 7 ships. They are the traditional Court of Claims 8 judgeship, two paragraph (d) Court of Claims 9 judgeships which are the so-called criminal 10 Court of Claims judgeships, a county court judge 11 in the county of Rensselaer, one of the county 12 court judgeships certified as in desperate need 13 by the Office of Court Administration now for 14 over -- way over a year and Supreme -- an 15 additional Family Court judge in the county of 16 Oneida. You might recall that we passed a bill, 17 the Assembly passed and the Governor vetoed a 18 bill creating that desperately needed Family 19 Court judgeship earlier in this session. The 20 main reason the Governor vetoed that bill was 21 that it needed budgetary language and the budget 22 had not been enacted. 23 This bill, of course, which is 24 introduced at the request of the Governor has at 25 the request of the Governor, re... put back in 7752 1 that Oneida County court family, Oneida County 2 Family Court judge which is so desperately 3 needed in Oneida court, and then a number of 4 Supreme Court additions in Kings County one, in 5 Queens County one, in the Ninth District which 6 is the county of Westchester and the four 7 northern counties north of Westchester two, and 8 in the Tenth Judicial District, the counties of 9 Nassau and Suffolk two. 10 I'll make a general comment if I 11 could. For those who are saying, Well, why is 12 there only one Supreme Court justice in the 13 county of Queens and one in the county of Kings 14 when more is necessary, I totally agree that 15 more is necessary. Unfortunately, according to 16 the Constitution, there can only be one judge, 17 one justice of the Supreme Court for every 18 50,000 residents of this state. Queens and 19 Kings County only have, under the constitutional 20 cap, room for one more Supreme Court justice. 21 Enactment of this statute by both 22 houses and signing by the Governor will mean 23 that all five boroughs, all five counties of the 24 city of New York will have reached their 25 constitutional cap for the appointment -- for 7753 1 the election, sorry, of Supreme Court justices. 2 I would respectfully point out to the members of 3 the body that the Chief Judge of the state of 4 New York, Judith Kaye, has earlier this year 5 proposed constitutional amendments some of which 6 track what we have unanimously passed in the 7 Senate, a reorganization of the court system 8 into a two-tiered court structure as well as the 9 provision which would do away with the 10 constitutional limitation, the constitutional 11 cap on the creation of Supreme Court justices. 12 Over a month ago I sent a letter 13 to the Assembly inviting the members of the 14 Assembly to join in with me with the members of 15 the Senate Judiciary Committee to hold joint 16 hearings on the Chief Judge's proposal including 17 doing away with the constitutional cap. The 18 Assembly has not responded to that letter. 19 Accordingly, the Senate has gone alone and has 20 scheduled hearings beginning September 15th at 21 the Association of the Bar in the city of New 22 York in Manhattan, thereafter in Hauppauge, 23 Albany and Buffalo, in which we're inviting 24 anybody and everybody to please come and comment 25 on the Chief Judge's proposal, with the sincere 7754 1 hope that in 1998 we can begin a very earnest 2 process to reform the court system in this 3 state, especially to do away with the 4 constitutional cap. 5 In any event, this is a very well 6 thought out proposal from the Governor which I'm 7 happy to advance on the floor this morning to 8 create these 14 judgeships at this point in 9 time. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will you 13 yield to a question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Lack, will you yield to a question? 16 SENATOR LACK: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 yields. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 20 Mr. President, was consideration given - 21 consideration given in this package to including 22 a Family Court judge in Monroe County? 23 SENATOR LACK: Not to my 24 knowledge. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Was it 7755 1 discussed -- again through you, Mr. President, 2 was it discussed in the negotiations between the 3 two houses? 4 SENATOR LACK: I do not know what 5 was discussed other than the negotiations that I 6 had, Senator Dollinger, and at that point in 7 time I had no discussions with respect to 8 creating a Family Court judgeship in Monroe 9 County, but in general, Senator, I should reply 10 to you that there is a much larger package for 11 the creation of judgeships which conceivably 12 could include the creation of more Family Court 13 judges throughout the state of New York for 14 which months ago I sent requests to the Assembly 15 and asked them to enter into a discussion on. 16 That has not taken place. 17 This is in response to a need 18 that exists really, of a desperate need that 19 exists through the state, the creation of this 20 particular package. I would hope that as part 21 of the reorganization of the current 22 seven-tiered judicial system in the state to a 23 two-tiered system as proposed by the Chief 24 Judge, that that would also include the creation 25 of additional judgeships throughout the state as 7756 1 would be needed to support what would hopefully 2 be the newly created two-tiered system. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just one 4 other question, through you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Lack, you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I won't take 8 up a lot of time with this, and I would suggest, 9 Senator Lack, you may even need some advice to 10 answer this question from Senator Meier. Do you 11 know how many people there are in Oneida County? 12 SENATOR LACK: Excuse me? 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Do you know 14 how many people there are in Oneida County? 15 SENATOR LACK: Senator Meier. 16 SENATOR MEIER: There are 17 presently about 244,000 people in Oneida County 18 who among them manage to generate the highest 19 per judge case load in the entire state of New 20 York, including the five boroughs of the city. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Dollinger. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: On the bill, 24 Mr. President. 25 I appreciate the candor of 7757 1 Senator Lack. I know that he has, in our 2 discussions, considered the issue of a Family 3 Court judge in Monroe County. I know it's been 4 considered by the Office of Court 5 Administration. 6 I appreciate his pushing for a 7 complete package to try to resolve the issue of 8 sparse judicial resources across this state. 9 Whether that's achieved through the addition of 10 judges in particular communities or through a 11 courtwide reorganization which probably is three 12 or four or five years away, given the 13 Constitutional Amendment process that would 14 probably be required to do that. 15 It is an interesting question 16 that we perhaps should debate, and I would be 17 interested in seeing what his hearings produce 18 but I stand here again to ask that this issue of 19 a Family Court judge for Monroe County be a part 20 of the final package. 21 Senator Meier, I appreciate that 22 for 244,000 people, you're going to have three 23 judges. We have 700,000 people and we have 24 five. We need at least twice as many as you do 25 if not more. I've asked to add six. It seems 7758 1 to me it would make good sense. I'm concerned 2 because we give the Family Court judges more and 3 more responsibility all the time. We ask them 4 to protect children from neglect, we ask them to 5 collect child support. We ask them to achieve 6 real justice in our juvenile justice system. We 7 ask that they intervene earlier in child's lives 8 so that we discourage them from a life of crime 9 and cut down on the need for future judicial 10 resources. It seems that at a time when we 11 should be doing more for children, we're going 12 to actually end up doing less in Monroe County. 13 I'm disappointed that the Monroe 14 County judge is not in this package. I would 15 hope that in discussions with the Assembly that 16 when it is an agreed package it would be made a 17 final part of and that no obstacle would stand 18 in the way of improving our Family Court in my 19 home community and in other parts of the state. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 21 will read the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 23 act shall take effect January 1st, 1998. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 25 roll. 7759 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Senator Skelos, we have a cross 6 now that we'd like to take care of. He'd like to 7 do that. 8 We'll return to Calendar Number 9 1680 which previously passed on the 10 non-controversial reading of the Calendar Number 11 66-C, and the motion is to reconsider the vote 12 by which Calendar 1680 passed the house. I'll 13 ask the clerk -- the Secretary to call the roll 14 on reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration. ) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 19 is before the house. Secretary will read the 20 substitution. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Connor 22 moves to discharge from the Committee on Rules 23 Assembly Print 8416-A and substitute it for the 24 identical Senate bill, Third Reading 1680. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 7760 1 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 2 the title. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1680, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 5 Assembly Print 8416-A, an act to amend the Real 6 Property Tax Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 8 will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 16 is passed. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Dollinger, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: If I could, 22 Mr. President, on calendar -- or on Senator 23 Lack's bill, and I don't have the calendar 24 number, but Senate Number is 5796. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Calendar 7761 1 1686. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I would ask 3 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 4 Number 1686. I apologize. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 6 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 7 Dollinger will be recorded in the negative on 8 Calendar Number 1686. 9 Senator Velella. 10 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. President, 11 can we go to Senator Saland's bill, Calendar 12 Number 1681. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read Calendar Number 1681. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1681, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5791, an 17 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 1681 21 has been requested. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 Mr. President, this bill is 25 what's been commonly termed the "primary 7762 1 aggressor" bill. It is a bill which is somewhat 2 limited in scope in that, while it amends the 3 Mandatory Arrest Law that we passed in 1994, the 4 Family Protection and Domestic Violence and 5 Prevention Act of 1994, there have been some 6 concerns expressed in some quarters that partic 7 ularly with respect to misdemeanors, there has 8 been some situations in which law enforcement 9 officers would arrive at the scene of a domestic 10 violence incident and find both parties charging 11 each other with what, in essence, was some type 12 of a family offense misdemeanor, and the police 13 officer would then, under the strict 14 interpretation of the law, be compelled to 15 arrest both. 16 What we're doing here, and I take 17 great pains to point out that by way of this 18 bill and there's a three-way agreement on this 19 bill, this does not apply to felonies. It would 20 be a virtually impossible task to ask a police 21 officer to distinguish among competing felonious 22 misconduct as to whom the primary aggressor 23 would be, and also I do believe that there's not 24 a state in the Union that has, in effect, merged 25 mandatory arrest and primary aggressor. 7763 1 This bill, as I said, is narrow 2 in its scope. It attempts to deal with those 3 misdemeanor cases and tries to establish a 4 series of criteria that are to be taken into 5 consideration when a law enforcement official 6 has to make that determination as to whether or 7 not, in fact, there is a readily discernible 8 primary aggressor. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Will the gentleman 13 yield to a question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Saland do you yield? 16 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 17 President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 yields. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, first of 21 all, I appreciate your comments, and I get the 22 feeling from your comments and you don't have to 23 really deal with this, but I get the feeling 24 that of all the legislation you've passed in 25 your life much of it very significant you've 7764 1 come to the floor on other occasions a little 2 bit more excited than with this bill. 3 But at any rate, we have a bill 4 before us and the bottom line is this terrible 5 word "arrest" and I say terrible word because if 6 somebody gets arrested and it's for a 7 misdemeanor or if it's for a felony, there are 8 police procedure, as we all know, and that means 9 cuffing, it means a lot of things and arrest is 10 a serious situation. 11 My question to you is the 12 following: If a police officer is called to a 13 lobby of a bank and the guard has grabbed 14 somebody, he has reasonable cause from 15 independent witnesses to get an idea of who 16 committed a crime, but aren't we placing an 17 extraordinary burden on a police officer if in a 18 misdemeanor situation where again we're talking 19 about injuries which I assume are much less than 20 they would be in a felony situation, we're 21 asking a police officer to look at two people, 22 both pointing fingers at each other, and all of 23 a sudden, without a trial, be the judge and the 24 jury and cause an arrest. He has to, as I read 25 this, he must or she must take somebody into 7765 1 custody and make an arrest. Isn't that a kind 2 of a huge burden especially in a misdemeanor 3 situation? 4 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Gold, 5 primary aggressor has been used in a number of 6 jurisdictions. I said in my earlier comments, 7 I'm not aware of a jurisdiction that has merged 8 both mandatory arrest and primary aggressor. I 9 think your point is well taken. I think it will 10 be a perhaps difficult decision for an officer 11 to make, but our purpose here with some of the 12 language that we've provided in some of the sub 13 categories is to try and provide some definition 14 that might make that very difficult decision 15 somewhat more objectively arrived at. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 17 yield to another question, Mr. President? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Saland, you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 continues to yield. 24 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, the first 25 criterion is the comparative extent of any 7766 1 injuries conflicted by and between the parties. 2 It seems to me, Senator, that there are many, 3 many, many cases which have led us to understand 4 that very often the primary aggressor in a fight 5 winds up getting the worst of it. As a matter 6 of fact our whole law -- body of law dealing 7 with the issue of self-defense has parts of it 8 which talk about defending yourself but then not 9 going too far, et cetera, et cetera, that kind 10 of stuff, so it is very often that the person 11 with the worst injuries may have been the 12 primary -- is that the word? -- the primary 13 aggressor. 14 So how does one look at the 15 injuries and using that criteria determine if 16 it's only the two parties in the domestic 17 violence situation, which one was the primary 18 aggressor? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Gold, 20 the categories or sub-categories that are listed 21 on lines 15 through 21 represent, in effect, a 22 series which, taken in their totality, are 23 appropriately to be considered by an officer who 24 is contemplating making this decision as to 25 whether there is someone who is clearly the 7767 1 primary aggressor. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Will the Senator 3 yield to another question? 4 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 continues to yield. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you have 9 gone out of your way, and I appreciate that, to 10 make it clear that this does not involve felony 11 situations. You're talking about physical 12 aggression, but it's physical aggression at the 13 misdemeanor level, am I correct? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, you are, 15 Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: So if I can follow 17 up with that, isn't it a fact that a misdemeanor 18 at the -- physical damage at the misdemeanor 19 level does not have to be really serious 20 physical injury. It could be injury or could be 21 an assault but not of a serious injury? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Without my Penal 23 Law, I can not say with absolute certainty but I 24 do believe you're correct. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Well, O.K. I don't 7768 1 have mine either, but your shooting from the hip 2 is usually more accurate than most people with a 3 law library. But, Senator, my point really is 4 in a situation where you've got felonies being 5 committed and you've got witnesses and you've 6 got other things, I can understand putting 7 certain burdens upon a police officer, but when 8 you don't have physical damage that brings it to 9 a felony level, you're not out on the front lawn 10 where all of the neighbors saw what happened. 11 You're in a home and the police officer gets 12 called there, and all he's got is two people, 13 minor injuries if at all, maybe scratches, they 14 each scratched each other, and they're both 15 pointing to each other. I think it's an 16 impossible job for a police officer, and we are 17 mandating by law that he arrest somebody and 18 take somebody who may never have been arrested 19 in his or her life and subject them to criminal 20 incarceration with people who obviously may be 21 worse criminal types. 22 I say, Senator, that you have my 23 admiration for what you've done in this field in 24 many other ways, but I just think that we're 25 taking that last stretch which goes beyond logic 7769 1 and to do it after an all-night session and I 2 know that Senator Bruno has outlawed them and I 3 assume this is an extraordinary situation or he 4 wouldn't violate his own rule, but I mean at 5 this point in time to be dealing with this, I 6 would really urge upon you to make some 7 reconsideration. 8 The concept that this is a three 9 way deal gets me wondering about the three who 10 made the deal, but I think that, with all due 11 sensitivity to the women's groups and for the 12 fact that domestic violence is a very serious 13 situation, I think this stretches it beyond 14 logic. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 16 will read -- Senator Dollinger. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will the 18 sponsor yield to a question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Saland, do you yield to a question? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 yields. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Senator, I 25 want to follow up on a question that Senator 7770 1 Gold asked, and ask whether this is really a 2 mandatory arrest policy of the primary physical 3 aggressor; is that what it's intended to be? 4 SENATOR SALAND: This -- the 5 section of the law that's being amended is part 6 of the 1994 Family Protection and Domestic 7 Violence Intervention Act. If you recall, that 8 section required mandatory arrest in misdemeanor 9 and felony situations. It also went on to say 10 that in the misdemeanor situation unlike the 11 felony situation, the complainant would have the 12 ability to withdraw his or her, in the vast 13 overwhelming majority of cases, the complainant 14 would be a woman complainant. However, the - 15 the law enforcement officer who is investigating 16 could not advise that person, the victim, of her 17 or his right to withdraw. 18 What we're doing in this section 19 is now amending that to say that in that 20 misdemeanor situation, the law enforcement 21 officer will have to make a determination, if 22 one can be made, as to whether there's a primary 23 aggressor and then if, in fact, there is a 24 primary aggressor, that primary aggressor, where 25 both people are alleging that the other has 7771 1 committed a family offense, that primary 2 aggressor would be the person to be arrested so 3 as to avoid incidents in which one person 4 initiates a domestic violence incident and then 5 claims that the other person was culpable either 6 causing it or in some manner or way creating the 7 incident. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through you, 9 Mr. President, Senator Saland, I remember that 10 portion of the bill very well because you and I 11 had an extended colloquy about the question of 12 mandatory arrest and the circumstances in 13 domestic violence in which exactly these kinds 14 of issues would arise; but my question really 15 deals with the language of the bill that was 16 highlighted by Senator Gold. 17 Look at line 14 and 15. It says 18 shall attempt to identify and arrest. Does that 19 mean they are attempting to arrest or attempting 20 to identify and thereafter shall arrest, or that 21 they only have to engage in an attempt to 22 arrest? 23 SENATOR SALAND: I believe what 24 that's intended to do, Senator Dollinger, is to 25 accept the reality that in these types of 7772 1 situation, one may not be able to determine in 2 every instance and perhaps in many or most 3 instances that there is, in fact, a clearly 4 primary aggressor. 5 What is being said here is that 6 the investigating officer shall attempt to 7 identify. If, in fact, that identification 8 can't be made and yet there has been the 9 commission of a family offense misdemeanor or 10 misdemeanors, then the officer, I believe, would 11 be dutybound to act accordingly. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And not make 13 an arrest. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Oh, make an 15 arrest, certainly have to arrest. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again through 17 you, Mr. President, if he cannot figure out who 18 the physical aggressor is, he would be obligated 19 then not to make an arrest; isn't that correct? 20 SENATOR SALAND: No, I think the 21 officer would be confronted with two choices. 22 If both people had committed what would appear 23 to be a family offense misdemeanor and neither 24 person -- neither or both people chose to 25 withdraw their complaint without being advised 7773 1 that they could do so by the officer, the 2 officer would be required to do that which he or 3 she would have had to have done if they came 4 upon you and I fighting or doing damage to each 5 other physically in some setting, whether it was 6 in a ball park, in a parking lot, in a bar room, 7 and I think under those circumstances the 8 officer would in all likelihood have arrested 9 the two of us. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Arrest both 11 parties. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just through 14 you, one other question, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 16 Saland, you continue to yield? You continue to 17 yield? 18 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 yields. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 What happens -- what happens, 24 Senator, if there is an arrest of the primary 25 physical aggressor and in the pre-trial motions 7774 1 against the misdemeanor complaint there's a 2 hearing held and it's determined by the court 3 that he wasn't the primary physical aggressor 4 based on a hearing. Is the arrest then voided 5 even if it's an arrest for a simple assault? 6 SENATOR SALAND: Well, the 7 purpose of this legislation is to try and avoid 8 dual arrest situations. My assumption in the - 9 in the scenario that you've mentioned is that 10 that particular charge, whatever it might be, 11 assault whatever, would be dismissed. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: O.K. Mr. 13 President, on the bill very briefly. 14 I understand the goal that 15 Senator Saland is getting to, and I support the 16 concept of arresting the primary physical 17 aggressor. I think it's unfortunate, as Senator 18 Gold said, that it's quarter of ten in the 19 morning on the morning after that we're doing 20 this. This is a very significant piece of 21 legislation. Perhaps it should have been talked 22 about either in the Children and Families 23 Committee or in the penal -- the Codes 24 Committee, because I assume this affects the 25 Criminal Procedure Law and should be a part of 7775 1 that as well. 2 I'm going to vote in favor of it, 3 but I share the concerns of Senator Gold, and 4 I'm not so sure that we're giving quite as much 5 guidance to our police officers as we think we 6 are. Much as I said in 1994 when we did the 7 mandatory arrest bill, I would simply suggest 8 that this thing -- this whole concept needs to 9 be looked at in greater detail. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Rath. 12 SENATOR RATH: Mr. President, to 13 clear the record, there were -- there was a 14 comment made about how women's groups and the 15 domestic violence groups feel about this 16 particular bill, and I find myself doing a lot 17 of work on that issue in my district, in fact, a 18 lot of very creative work with the groups. It 19 was their number one choice this year, was this 20 bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 22 will read the last section. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Gold, why do you rise? 7776 1 SENATOR GOLD: Well, I wasn't 2 sure whether Senator Rath was implying that I 3 didn't say that. I think I recognized the fact 4 that there are women's groups, I think, that are 5 supporting it. I think they're wrong, and you 6 know, as with so many other situations, groups 7 take positions and then we have to make a 8 determination and vote. 9 With all due respect to the 10 wonderful work these groups have done and the 11 fact that people like you and Senator Saland and 12 many people on this side of the aisle have 13 sensitized society to some extent towards the 14 issues involved in domestic violence, I think 15 this is a long stretch, and I'm going to vote 16 no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 25 the negatives and announce the results. 7777 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56, nays 1, 2 Senator Gold recorded in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 4 is passed. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Would you call 7 up Senator Trunzo's bill 1677. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the title of Number 1677. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1677, by member of the Assembly Vitaliano, 12 Assembly Print 6864-A, an act to amend the 13 General Municipal Law. 14 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me ask 19 Senator Trunzo to yield. Rather than ask for an 20 explanation, let me cut to the quick. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Trunzo, do you yield? 23 SENATOR TRUNZO: I will, 24 Senator. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7778 1 yields. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: I also would 3 relate to another bill you -- are we on 1677? 4 SENATOR TRUNZO: We're on 1677 5 right now, and also I have 1676. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: O.K. You 7 provide special disability retirement for 8 certain employees, correction officers another 9 bill dealt with the State Police who've 10 developed HIV positive or hepatitis. Do we have 11 any statistics, any indication whatsoever that 12 would show a higher incidence to those diseases 13 by these particular employees? 14 SENATOR TRUNZO: I personally 15 don't have any records at this point myself, but 16 I can assure you, Senator, that the presumption 17 of the HIV or the other diseases doesn't mean 18 solely just that they have it. They're going to 19 have to show evidence that the incident that 20 occurred in the prison or in association with 21 the criminals that they may be working with, 22 that they have to indicate that and prove the 23 fact that this particular incident caused them 24 to have the HIV. It isn't just strictly a 25 presumption. 7779 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 2 Senator, just to clarify that, because I don't 3 know if the bill is that clear as to the 4 legislative intent. As we know, most of the 5 time, to contact HIV, it's that you practice 6 unsafe sex or you may be a drug user and you use 7 needles, but I can well understand that these 8 people may come into contact with both -- with 9 more persons who are HIV positive. They are 10 guards they work in the prisons; there's a high 11 incidence of HIV and TB and hepatitis. 12 What you're telling us that when 13 they apply for the disability pension that they 14 would have to show that they were in contact 15 with somebody. They can't just come and say, 16 "I'm HIV positive" and the presumption applies; 17 you're telling us that they have to show 18 contact. 19 SENATOR TRUNZO: Absolutely, show 20 the fact that they were contacted. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: All right. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 23 will read the last section. There is a home 24 rule message at the desk. Secretary will read 25 the last section. 7780 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Please call up 11 Calendar Number 1678, by Senator Alesi. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 13 will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1678, by member of the Assembly Koon, Assembly 16 Print 4572, an act to authorize and direct the 17 Workers' Compensation Board. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 19 will read the last section. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Hold it. Hold 21 on. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Alesi, would you like to explain Calendar Number 24 1678 for Senator Leichter. 25 SENATOR ALESI: I'd be happy to. 7781 1 Mr. President, this bill simply 2 directs the Workers' Compensation Board to 3 increase the Workers' Compensation benefits for 4 an injured firefighter. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Mr. 8 President, I'll speak on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Gold, on the bill. 11 SENATOR GOLD: This is a bill 12 which legislatively makes absolutely no sense in 13 the world. There's an individual who is 14 receiving benefits. There is a process by which 15 the disability was determined and the 16 Legislature is going to change that award and, 17 if we do it, we are crazy, which doesn't mean we 18 don't do it. Matter of fact, that may explain 19 why we may do it; but the point is in the 20 Committee meeting, someone pointed out that 21 there have been changes in benefits and that 22 people coming down the line later might get 23 different benefits and, Senator Alesi, I 24 certainly would consider a bill that set up a 25 process whereby anybody who is on disability 7782 1 could make application if things changed, but 2 the concept of picking a person coming to the 3 Legislature and the Legislature determining what 4 disability benefits should be makes no sense. 5 I don't know this person. I 6 don't know whether you do or don't. I assume, 7 and just for the record, Senator Alesi, I'm 8 assuming -- I'm assuming based upon my knowledge 9 of you, that this bill is put in in good faith, 10 so please don't take anything I say as being 11 anything other than that -- but we are being 12 asked to judge a disability case without any 13 evidence, without any knowledge of the 14 individual, without any search of a record, and 15 it's just absurd. 16 Now, in similar situations where 17 people have claimed that their pension benefits 18 through no fault of their own, we wind up with 19 that silly language, they want to change, 20 finally after years we got the Trunzo bill. We 21 allowed that to lapse, which made no sense. 22 There are ways the Legislature can set up 23 procedures, but to flood ourselves with people 24 who will find out that we would override 25 administrative determinations and put money in 7783 1 their pocket, is something we don't need. 2 Now, we could argue from now 'til 3 the end of the year, and on and on and on about 4 a full-time Legislature. If we want to make a 5 full-time Legislature and we're looking for new 6 bills to make it look like we're busy, well, 7 this is one, I guess, that will give us a new 8 way to look busy and justify to the people, but 9 it's just silliness. 10 There are things which are proper 11 legislative concerns, and there are things which 12 we shouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, and I 13 don't know the merits of this one individual any 14 more than I know the merits of 500 other 15 individuals in this state who don't know Senator 16 Alesi and don't know Senator Tully and don't 17 know Senator Dollinger or Leichter or Gold or 18 anybody else, and whose benefits are going to 19 stay the same. 20 One last thing, I mean let's talk 21 about the open secret we all know about. How 22 many times I've walked out of that Rules 23 Committee or other committees and had members of 24 the other side say to me, You know, you're 25 right, you know, it's really terrible, but you 7784 1 don't have, unfortunately -- and I'm not 2 mentioning names obviously -- don't have the 3 guts on the floor to say we're right and to vote 4 with us. Makes no sense at all. 5 So just on a personal basis, I 6 can't speak for Senator Leichter who has the 7 same experience, you know, don't tell us walking 8 out of the room we're right. If you think we're 9 right, vote with us. If you don't, at least 10 don't pour salt in it that you're going to vote 11 for a bad bill just because that's what the 12 party tells you to do. 13 This is a bad process. This bill 14 rather is a bad precedent, and I think it's one 15 we should keep away from and I'm going to vote 16 in the negative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 18 will read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 20 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 25 the negatives and announce the results. 7785 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2 two, Senators Gold and Leichter recorded in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 5 is passed. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 would you call up Calendar Number 1679, by 9 Senator Trunzo. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 11 will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1679, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 5101-A, an 14 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 15 Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator 19 Trunzo, the answer that you gave me when I 20 discussed your previous bill, 1676, also applies 21 to this bill? 22 SENATOR TRUNZO: It also applies 23 to this legislation. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Right, that 25 you would have to show that the person who is 7786 1 applying for the disability pension, that he 2 came into contact with somebody which could have 3 caused him to - 4 SENATOR TRUNZO: Correct. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- to develop 6 that disease. 7 SENATOR TRUNZO: Correct, yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 9 will read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 on the original calendar of today, Calendar 20 Number 66, would you call up Senator 21 Marcellino's bill 5628, Calendar 1522. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: On the 23 regular calendar, the brown calendar, Calendar 24 Number 66, first calendar of the day, Secretary 25 will read Calendar Number 1522, by Senator 7787 1 Marcellino. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1522. In relation to Calendar Number 1522. 4 Senator Marcellino moves to discharge from the 5 Committee on Rules Assembly Print 8477-A and 6 substitute it for the identical Senate bill, 7 Third Reading 1522. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 9 Substitution is ordered. Secretary will read 10 the title. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1522, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 13 Assembly Print 8477-A, an act authorizing the 14 county of Suffolk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There is 16 a home rule message at the desk. Secretary will 17 read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 25 is passed. 7788 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 if we could return to reports of standing 4 committees, I believe there's a report of the 5 Finance Committee at the desk, ask that it be 6 read. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return to 8 the order of reports of standing committees, ask 9 the Secretary to read the report of the Finance 10 Committee which is at the desk. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senate Stafford, 12 from the Committee on Finance, offers up the 13 following bills: 14 Senate Print 6705-B, Budget Bill, 15 Education, Labor and Social Services Budget 16 Bill; 17 By Senator DeFrancisco, Senate 18 Print 5757, an act to amend the Insurance Law; 19 5792, by the Committee on Rules, 20 an act in relation to appropriations made by the 21 chapters of the laws of 1997; and 22 Senate 814-A, Budget Bill, an act 23 making appropriations for the support of 24 government. 25 All bills directly for third 7789 1 reading. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 3 to accept the report of the Finance Committee. 4 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 Opposed nay. 7 (There was no response.) 8 The report is accepted. The bills 9 are reported directly to third reading. 10 Senator Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 12 will you call up Calendar Number 1673. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read Calendar Number 1573, Bill Number 15 705-B. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1673, Budget Bill, 705-B, Education, Labor and 18 Social Services budget. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 20 Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 Is there a motion -- message of necessity and 23 appropriation at the desk? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 25 is. 7790 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 3 to accept the message of necessity that is at 4 the desk. All those in favor signify by saying 5 aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 Opposed nay. 8 (There was no response.) 9 The messages are adopted. Bill 10 is before the house. Secretary will read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 15 -- Senator Leichter, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. President, 17 to explain my vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 Leichter, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Mr. 24 President, I'm going to vote against this bill. 25 I voted against all the budget bills, but I just 7791 1 specifically want to point out that in this bill 2 that the educational aid disparity to the city 3 of New York is barely narrowed. I think it's 4 narrowed by one-tenth of one percentage point. 5 The fact is that the city of New 6 York has been short-changed over the years in 7 education aid. We have a growing school 8 population, yet we don't receive the amount of 9 state aid that we should. 10 But let me also say, Mr. 11 President, maybe it's a fitting end to this 12 session that we have this sort of chaotic and 13 sloppy ending and that here we are after some 14 21, 22 hours, trying to pass budget bills that 15 we barely understand and have barely seen. It 16 just underscores again the need that we have to 17 reform our procedures. 18 Certainly I think the people of 19 the state of New York would like us to be 20 somewhat awake and aware when we pass these 21 budget bills. We clearly are not. These are 22 bills negotiated by the leaders against a 23 deadline. Then they come out at the very last 24 minute before we vote on them. It's just not a 25 way to act on a 66- or $68 billion budget. 7792 1 Mr. President, I vote in the 2 negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 7 Senator Dollinger and Leichter recorded in the 8 negative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 10 is passed. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Call up 1674. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 14 will read Calendar Number 1674. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1674, by the Committee on Rules, 5792, an act in 17 relation to making appropriations. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 is there a message of necessity and 20 appropriation at the desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 22 is. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 25 to accept the message of necessity on 1674. All 7793 1 those in favor signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 Opposed nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The messages are adopted. The 6 bill is before the house. Secretary will read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 96. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 56 - 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 15 the negatives, announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 17 Senators Dollinger and Leichter recorded in the 18 negative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 20 is passed. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Stand at ease 23 temporarily. 24 SENATOR KUHL: Senate will stand 25 at ease for a few moments. 7794 1 (The Senate stood at ease from 2 10:10 to 10:51 a.m.) 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Can we at this 7 time take up Calendar Number 1675. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1675, Budget Bill, an act making appropriations 10 for the support of government. 11 SENATOR BRUNO: Is there a 12 message at the desk, Mr. President? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 14 is. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: Move we accept 16 the message. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion is 18 to accept the message of necessity at the desk 19 on Calendar Number 1675. All those in favor 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response.) 24 The message is accepted. The 25 bill is before the house. Secretary will read 7795 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 8 the negatives and announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 2, 10 Senators Leichter and Dollinger recorded in the 11 negative. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 13 is passed. 14 Senator Bruno. 15 (The Senate was at ease until 16 11:00 a.m.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 18 will come to order. Have some order in the 19 house. Senator Velella. Members take their 20 chairs. Staff take their places. 21 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno. 22 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 23 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 24 1687. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 7796 1 will read the title to Calendar Number 1687. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1687, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 5757, 4 an act to amend the Insurance Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Secretary 6 will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 8 act shall take effect in 120 days. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The bill 14 is passed. 15 (The Senate stood at ease from 16 11:01 to 11:18 a.m.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 18 will come to order. Members find their places, 19 staff their places. 20 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 22 President. My apologies to my colleagues and 23 others in the chamber for this delay. 24 We are going to conclude this 25 session, and some people have said this session 7797 1 is too long, has been too long, and they're 2 right; and some people are thinking that the 3 past 24 hours or so have been too long, and 4 they're right; and some people will say that the 5 latest budget in the history of this state is 6 unfortunate, and they're right. 7 But nobody can say that what we 8 have done over these past months while we have 9 been in session and, yes, this latest budget 10 ever, that we have not saved the people of this 11 state in an exceptional way, and we have done 12 that together. 13 What we have done is 14 extraordinary. Third year in a row biggest tax 15 cuts in the history of this state, more than any 16 other state in the United States for the third 17 year, and you know the things that we've done. 18 People will read, and they will learn very 19 specifically about what has happened during this 20 past session and in this budget, so I don't have 21 to, today, recite that. I don't have to go on 22 at great length, thank the good Lord, and I will 23 set an example for my learned colleague in the 24 Minority, Senator Connor, and be very brief, and 25 just say thank you, thank all of you for your 7798 1 cooperation, for your assistance, for your 2 commitment to doing what is right for the people 3 of this state. 4 Want to thank Senator Stafford 5 who has chaired Finance, does all the many 6 extraordinary kinds of things that he does to 7 make everything work, and Senator Skelos, the 8 Deputy Majority Leader, who sits here hour after 9 hour, helping this function in an orderly way, 10 and Senator Randy Kuhl, who has presided hour 11 after hour after hour and day after day, and I 12 thank you for that; and all the rest of you that 13 are here, chairs, the leaders, playing a role 14 and making the good things happen on behalf of 15 the people of this state. 16 I also want to say a special word 17 of thank you, and that's really the most 18 meaningful thing that I can do is to say thank 19 you to Abe Lackman, who is known throughout this 20 state and the United States as one of the most 21 able and capable who just makes things happen, 22 sometimes in a timely way but -- couldn't resist 23 that, Abe -- but there is no one that can do it 24 better and knows it better than Abe. And he is 25 assisted by Mary Louise Mallick, who is here, 7799 1 and Lee Van Riper and his Finance staff, many of 2 them that are here. He has spent hours and 3 hours and hours and hours, more than any of us 4 want to recount, in helping us get where we are 5 today. 6 The counsels, Dave Dudley and Ken 7 Riddett and all the others that work with them, 8 literally to the point of exhaustion, and I 9 apologize for that, where people have had to be 10 bodily removed, having collapsed, and that's 11 unfortunate in the process that exists here in 12 this state, but I thank you for that. And Steve 13 Boggess, my chief of staff, who has been with me 14 for an awful lot of years, and Pat Stackrow, my 15 executive assistant, and Marcia White, who is my 16 person -- I don't quite know what her title is 17 but I think she is a press secretary. Yes, she 18 is a press secretary, and when I say things that 19 are inappropriate she helps make them more 20 appropriate, such as right now. 21 And my director of 22 communications, John McArdle, and his whole 23 press office, that tries to make us all look 24 good and usually succeeds, and I know Steve 25 Sloan, who is here as the Secretary of the 7800 1 Senate, and the Sergeant-at-Arms that are on 2 duty, and so many other people at the front 3 desk, Billy and Tommy and all the rest who make 4 this place work for all of us, and when it works 5 for us, it works for all of the people of this 6 state. 7 So again, I apologize for having 8 to recess, having the delays, having to work 9 through the night. I won't take the time to 10 relate some of what needs to be corrected and 11 will be corrected as we get into next year, and 12 that I can promise you. 13 But we're here and we're 14 concluding and, as I conclude my remarks, we are 15 not going to adjourn to a particular time to be 16 called. Mr. President, I'm going to ask that we 17 recess and there will be enough members here 18 because we have one piece of business that we 19 will be acting on, and that is a bill that 20 should be acted on before we leave. It's a bill 21 that's already been debated in this house. It 22 is going to be amended and recalled and acted 23 on, and that is the "Wild Card" bill that was 24 debated at length and will not be debated again, 25 but a very simple amendment will take place that 7801 1 is more technical and that has been part of the 2 the delay for the last 20 minutes to see whether 3 or not we would get that technical language 4 here. It is not here. We're not going to stay 5 any longer because many of us have responsibil 6 ities to our constituency, and we must -- and to 7 ourselves and to our families, and so it's time 8 to recess until it's time for us to get back 9 together. 10 So I wish you all well for the 11 rest of the summer and fall, until we put a call 12 to get back together at some time in the 13 future. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 16 recognizes Senator Connor. 17 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 Mr. President, it has been quite 20 a session. I'll tell a little anecdote, because 21 Senator Leichter always reminds me that some 22 years ago when my kids were a little younger - 23 they're still young -- I decided, gee, I had 24 fond memories of the seashore in New Jersey, so 25 I rented a place and we had a great week at the 7802 1 seashore, so I did it the next year and lo and 2 behold, my wife went and I was up here; we 3 were in session right up to July 4th. So I 4 moved it back a week for the next year, and lo 5 and behold, same thing happened. I missed it 6 and my family went. After about three years of 7 this, Senator Leichter said, Jeez, he started to 8 come up to me and say, When's that week you're 9 going to the Jersey shore, because I know we 10 won't get out until after that. 11 I'm really afraid, Mr. President. 12 I moved it back again this year and here we 13 are. So I don't -- I don't quite know what to 14 do. I'm afraid to put it off until the middle 15 of August or sure enough, things will happen and 16 we'll be here. 17 Mr. President, it has been a - 18 in some respects a contentious session. Senator 19 Bruno has outlined some of the accomplishments, 20 reference to some of the bills this house has 21 passed and we share in some of them. We in the 22 Minority have a peculiar perspective though, we 23 share in some of the ones that didn't pass on 24 time, a different perspective, but it has been a 25 session that as pointed out also, as Senator 7803 1 Bruno said, some of the things we ought to 2 address for the future about perhaps better ways 3 we can mend this process to make it work better 4 for the people and maybe make it work better for 5 us as well. 6 That said, I do want to be 7 brief. I know we have a 12:00 o'clock rule, and 8 we're approaching 12:00 o'clock. I should have 9 read that rule more closely, but I want to thank 10 certainly, thank Senator Bruno, our Majority 11 Leader, for always being gracious, always being 12 sincere and forthright. He is refreshingly 13 candid. You don't, at least by reputation you 14 don't look for candor, the public doesn't look 15 for candor among elected officials, and Senator 16 Bruno is one elected official who says it like 17 he sees it and means what he says and that is 18 indeed refreshing, and he has always been 19 courteous to me. He has always been a fine 20 gentleman and a principled leader, and indeed 21 principled even when we disagree. 22 Mr. President, a lot goes into 23 even the Minority Conference's efforts. A lot 24 of that certainly, a good deal of that is due to 25 colleagues on this side of the aisle and their 7804 1 support that they give and the efforts that they 2 make, the committee work and fostering ideas and 3 task forces, and so on, and, of course, the job 4 of being leader needs the most able right arm 5 one can find. I am indeed fortunate that I have 6 a Deputy such as David Paterson who day in and 7 day out graces this chair, leads us in debate, 8 does it with, I think, always an incredible wit, 9 insight and intellect, and can disagree really 10 time in and time out in a way that is not 11 disagreeable but is, in fact, sometimes rather 12 enjoyable, and Senator Bill Stachowski, 13 Assistant Minority Leader, who fills in in this 14 Chair, does our work in the Rules Committee and 15 otherwise is an outstanding leader of this 16 Conference, is a colleague I think we've all 17 over these years grown to love and respect. He 18 has some pretension of athletic knowledge and 19 ability, but we tolerate in return for his 20 phenomenal sense of humor. Sincerely though, 21 Senator Stachowski is someone who I respect and 22 rely on. 23 Senator Manny Gold, our ranking 24 Minority member on Finance, lifts those with the 25 benefit of the incredible intellect, the 7805 1 incredible debating skills and his many, many 2 years of experience, and I certainly thank him. 3 I do rely on his friendship and suport and 4 advice. 5 Conference is indeed a privilege 6 to be shared by someone who has experience and 7 wisdom and who is indeed kind and concerned to 8 all the members of this house on both sides of 9 the aisle, and that is our dear Senator Olga 10 Mendez. Thank you, Senator. The rest of the 11 leadership and members of this Conference, I say 12 thank you; thank you for your support; thank you 13 for your efforts. Keep up the good work. 14 Staff, I don't know, what we ask 15 of staff in both our Conferences is truly 16 incredible, truly incredible in terms of the 17 time, the time they put in. Just think if they 18 all investment bankers or whatever and put in 19 those most kind of hours, or lawyers who bill 20 $350 an hour, they would have bankrupted the 21 state this week with the hours in the past week 22 that they put in, and that's true of staff I 23 know in both Conferences. Seven days a week, 20 24 -- must be 25 or '-6 hours a day at least, we 25 have been blessed with their services. 7806 1 And to my counsel, Michael 2 Boxley, to his deputy, Ed Wassermann, and to all 3 the capable lawyers and support staff in our 4 counsel's office, I say thank you. To John 5 Ewashko, the Secretary to Senate Minority 6 Finance, who has toiled unstintingly these past 7 weeks, whose acuity and insight have been in 8 valuable. His efforts are monumental; the ideas 9 he puts forth both refreshing and often 10 shockingly insightful, sometimes even to arouse 11 the compliments of the Majority, as I'm unaware 12 and the serious study of those ideas by all the 13 conferences here, and the Governor. 14 Thank you, John; thank you Lynn, 15 Lynn Kopka, his able Assistant Secretary and all 16 the staff of the Senate Minority Finance, I hope 17 they were not foolish enough to stay away for 18 this speech since we didn't need their services 19 as of a half hour or so ago, and I certainly 20 wish them a well earned rest for the rest of the 21 summer. 22 To Chris Andrucci, our secretary, 23 Amy Solomon, my chief of staff, to Mona DeMay, 24 our deputy secretary, to Mercy Magrino, Eileen 25 Hickey, Janet Kennedy in Communications, Peter 7807 1 Slocum, our press secretary and he has a double 2 title of senior policy adviser and that's 3 because he is a policy wonk in the finest sense 4 of the word, and is a real idea person who is 5 always thinking and always looking for new ways 6 that government can serve the people, and I know 7 I'm going to forget somebody, to Mark Lining, 8 our director of programs, all the many members 9 of the program staff who labored these past 10 weeks as well on the issues and the substantive 11 issue side of both the budget and the bills 12 before us. I say thank you to -- I'm looking 13 around, because I got to -- to Joe and Jeff and 14 the other members of our senior staff, I say 15 thank you to all of you. Enjoy the rest of the 16 summer, what's left of it. Take a few hours off 17 and let's get back to work. 18 To all of my colleagues on both 19 sides of the aisle, I thank you especially for 20 your courtesy, for your good companionship and 21 for your collegiality. Please everyone enjoy 22 the rest of the summer. Take pride in those 23 things you've accomplished and look forward in 24 the future to rectifying some of the things 25 where perhaps we collectively as an institution 7808 1 fell short. 2 Thank you very much, Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Bruno. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. Thank you, Senator Connor, for the 8 very fine words and it is also a pleasure most 9 of the time to work with you and your 10 colleagues. 11 Having said that with almost a 12 straight face, we do things together and we know 13 that, and the debate does help us all. 14 Sometimes it's stimulating but gets us where we 15 have to be. So sincerely, thank you. 16 And Mr. President, at this time, 17 I would move that we stand in recess, and thank 18 you very much, and God bless. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 Senate stands in recess. 21 (Whereupon at 11:36 a.m., the 22 Senate recessed until 11:40 a.m.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Farley. 25 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 7809 1 President. 2 Mr. President, I wish to call up 3 my bill, Senate Print 5717-A which was recalled 4 from the Assembly which is now at the desk. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 8 Farley, Senate Print 5717-A, an act to amend the 9 Banking Law. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 11 reconsider the vote by which this bill passed. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Secretary will call the roll on 14 reconsideration. 15 (The Secretary called the roll on 16 reconsideration.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I 19 now offer the following amendments. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Amendments received. 22 (Whereupon the Senate was in 23 recess.) 24 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 25 would you please call up my bill, Calendar 7810 1 Number 1637. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1637, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 5717-B, an 6 act to amend the Banking Law. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: Is there a 8 message of necessity at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: There 10 is a message at the desk, Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: I move that we 12 accept the message. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All 14 those in favor of accepting the message of 15 necessity, signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 Opposed nay. 18 (There was no response.) 19 The message is accepted. Senator 20 Farley. 21 Secretary will read, I'm sorry. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 7811 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: AYES 57. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Farley. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: The bill is 8 passed. 9 I move now to recommit all the 10 bills that are on the calendar to the Rules 11 Committee. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All 13 bills are recommitted. 14 SENATOR FARLEY: Now, Mr. 15 President, I move that the Senate stand 16 adjourned subject to the call of the Majority 17 Leader. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 19 Senate stands adjourned subject to the call of 20 the Majority Leader. 21 Thank you, and have an enjoyable 22 summer. 23 (Whereupon at 11:59 a.m., the 24 Senate adjourned.) 25