Tuesday, February 24, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 February 24, 1998 11 3:00 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. Would everyone please rise and 4 join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 The invocation today will be 8 given by Reverend Ronald W. Steward, who is 9 the Pastor of the Union Missionary Baptist 10 Church in Albany. 11 Reverend Steward. 12 REVEREND STEWARD: Let us 13 pray. 14 Father, we come at this time 15 asking that You would go with these men and 16 these women who have the great responsi 17 bility of leading our state. We ask that you 18 would crown their heads with knowledge and 19 with wisdom as they legislate for all of us 20 those things that are necessary for our common 21 good and for the good of all Your people. In 22 Your name, we ask it all. Amen. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Amen. 24 The reading of the Journal, 25 please. 1 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 2 Monday, February 23rd. The Senate met pursuant 3 to adjournment. Prayer by the Reverend Pastor 4 Selwyn Winkowski. The Journal of Friday, 5 February 20th, was read and approved. On 6 motion, Senate adjourned. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Without 8 objection, the Journal stands approved as 9 read. 10 Presentation of petitions. 11 Messages from the Assembly. 12 Messages from the Governor. 13 Reports of standing committees. 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Padavan, from the Committee on Cities, reports 17 the following bills: 18 Senate Print 1650-A, by Senator 19 Maltese, an act to amend the General Business 20 Law; 21 3187, by Senator Seward, an act 22 authorizing and directing the city of Ithaca; 23 4876, by Senator Maltese, an 24 act to amend the Municipal Home Rule Law; and 25 6084, by Senator Padavan, an 1 act to amend New York City charter. 2 Senator Spano, from the 3 Committee on Labor, reports: 4 Senate Print 1689, by Senator 5 Farley, an act to amend the Workers' 6 Compensation Law, and 7 4142-A, by Senator Spano, an 8 act to amend the Labor Law; 9 Senator Maziarz, from the 10 Committee on Aging, reports the following 11 bills: 12 Senate Print 680-A, by Senator 13 Saland, an act to amend the Public Health Law; 14 2588, by Senator Meier, an act 15 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 16 4016, by Senator Maziarz, an 17 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; and 18 5322, by Senator Trunzo, an act 19 to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 20 Senator Volker, from the 21 Committee on Codes, reports: 22 Senate Print 289, by Senator 23 Rath, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 24 Law; 25 306, by Senator Skelos, an act 1 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 2 365-D, by Senator Volker, an 3 act to amend the Penal Law; 4 402, by Senator Maziarz, an act 5 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 6 406-A, by Senator Maziarz, an 7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and 8 the Penal Law; 9 589-B, by Senator Skelos, an 10 act to amend the Penal Law; 11 751, by Senator Volker, an act 12 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 13 1915, by Senator Libous, an act 14 to amend the Penal Law; 15 2408-B, by Senator Skelos, an 16 act to amend the Penal Law; 17 3660, by Senator Hannon, an 18 acts to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; and 19 5325, by Senator Volker, an act to amend the 20 Criminal Procedure Law. 21 Senator Rath, from the 22 Committee on Local Government, reports: 23 Senate Print 1862, by Senator 24 Johnson, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 25 Law; 1 2012, by Senator Larkin, an act 2 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 3 2167, by Senator Wright, an act 4 to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 5 2202, by Senator Padavan, an 6 act to amend the General Municipal Law; 7 2729, by Senator Cook, an act 8 to amend the General Municipal Law and others; 9 2753, by Senator Present, an 10 act to amend Chapter 557 of the Laws of 1992; 11 5390, by Senator Larkin, an act 12 to amend the General Municipal Law; 13 6055, by Senator Rath, an act 14 to amend the General Municipal Law; and 15 6250, by Senator Rath, an act 16 to extend the period for filing applications. 17 Senator Present, from the 18 Committee on Commerce, Economic Development 19 and Small Business, reports: 20 Senate Print 765-C, by Senator 21 Present, an act to amend the State 22 Administrative Procedure Act; 23 1773, by Senator Present, an 24 act to amend the Economic Development Law and 25 others; 1 1890, by Senator Present, an 2 act to amend the State Administrative 3 Procedure Act; 4 4112-A, by Senator Present, an 5 act to enact the Private Activity Bond 6 Allocation Act of 1998; 7 4349-A, by Senator DeFrancisco, 8 an act to amend the Economic Development Law 9 and the New York State Urban Development 10 Corporation Act; 11 4679-A, by Senator Present, an 12 act to amend the State Administrative 13 Procedure Act; and 14 6054, by Senator LaValle, an 15 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 16 All bills ordered - 17 Senator LaValle, from the 18 Committee on Higher Education, reports: 19 Senate Print 205, by Senator 20 Holland, an act to authorize the Salvation 21 Army Eastern Territory School; 22 243, by Senator Johnson, an act 23 to amend the Education Law; and. 24 4335, by Senator LaValle, an 25 act to amend the Education Law. 1 All bills ordered direct for 2 third reading. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Without 4 objection, all bills direct to third reading. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Trunzo. 10 SENATOR TRUNZO: Madam 11 President, I move that -- on behalf of Senator 12 Rath, I move that the following bills be 13 discharged from their respective committees 14 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 15 the enacting clauses: Senate Bill Number 16 4405-A, 4458-A, and 4851-A. 17 Thank you. 18 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 19 Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 21 Senator Farley moves to discharge from the 22 Committee on Veterans and Military Affairs 23 Assembly Bill Number 3545-A and substitute it 24 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 171. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 1 ordered. 2 Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 4 could we now take up the Resolution Calendar. 5 I would offer it up with the exception of 6 Resolution Number 2658. I'd ask that that be 7 held, and I would move for the adoption of the 8 Resolution Calendar. 9 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of 10 adopting the Resolution Calendar signify by 11 saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Except 2658. Those opposed 14 nay. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 The Resolution Calendar is 17 adopted. 18 Senator Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, could we 22 take up the non-controversial calendar at this 23 moment, please. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 25 read. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 38, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2088-A, an 3 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 4 in relation to enacting the Northeast 5 Interstate Dairy Compact. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay it 7 aside. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 9 please. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 42, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 1815, an 12 act to amend the Public Health Law, in 13 relation to expanding the definition of "group 14 practice". 15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 16 section, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 18 This act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the 21 roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 24 passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 94, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 1539, 2 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 3 relation to the time limitations for speedy 4 trial. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 6 section, please. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the 11 roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 14 passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 100, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3792, an 17 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 18 determining whether a prior conviction is a 19 predicate felony conviction. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 21 section, please. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 23 This act shall take effect immediately. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the 1 roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 108, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 3752-A, 7 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law and 8 the Real Property Tax Law, in relation to the 9 securitization of delinquent real property tax 10 liens. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll 12 -- oh, read the last section. I'm sorry. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 15. 14 This act shall take effect immediately. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll, 16 please. 17 (The Secretary called the 18 roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 21 passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 126, by Senator Present, Senate Print 527, an 24 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 25 relation to authorizing the designation of 1 rural economic development zones. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 3 section, please. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. 5 This act shall take effect on the first day of 6 January. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the 9 roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 12 passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 152, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 4572, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 16 relation to establishing uniform procedures. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 18 section, please. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 20 This act shall take effect immediately. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the 23 roll. ) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 38. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 1 passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 154, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 311, an 4 act to amend the General Obligations Law - 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 7 please. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 156, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 1588. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay it 11 aside. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside, 13 please. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 183, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 545-A, an 16 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law. 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Lay aside. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 195, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 21 5799-A, an act to amend the Domestic Relations 22 Law and the Family Court Act, in relation to 23 enacting the Lee-Anne Cruz Memorial Act. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 25 section, please. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 2 This act shall take effect immediately. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the 5 roll. ) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 196, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 440, an 11 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 12 relation to requiring motor vehicle repair 13 shops to be registered. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 15 section, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect on the first day of 18 January. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the 21 roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 24 passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 198, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 809, an 2 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 3 relation to motorcycle accident reporting. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 5 section, please. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 This act shall take effect immediately. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the 10 roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 41. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 Senator Kuhl, that completes 15 the non-controversial reading of the 16 calendar. 17 Senator Kuhl. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Yes, 19 Madam President, I understand there's another 20 report of a standing committee at the desk. 21 Could we return to the reports of standing 22 committees and ask the Secretary to read the 23 committee report at the desk. 24 THE PRESIDENT: We will now 25 return to standing committees. The Secretary 1 will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Nozzolio, from the Committee on Crime Victims, 4 Crime and Correction, reports: 5 Senate Print 177-C, by Senator 6 Nozzolio, an act to amend the Executive Law 7 and others; 8 246, by Senator Johnson, an act 9 to amend the Executive Law and others; 10 1783-A, by Senator Nozzolio, an 11 act to amend the Correction Law and others; 12 2558, by Senator Maziarz, an 13 act to amend the Correction Law; 14 2779, by Senator Nozzolio, an 15 act to amend the Correction Law; 16 3408-A, by Senator Skelos, an 17 act to amend the Executive Law and the Penal 18 Law, and 19 3429, by Senator Nozzolio, an 20 act to amend the Correction Law. 21 All bills ordered direct to 22 third reading. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Without 24 objection, all bills direct to third reading. 25 Senator Kuhl. 1 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 2 President. 3 Now may we go back to motions 4 and resolutions and can we have Resolution 5 Number 2658, by Senator Alesi, read in its 6 entirety. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 8 will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Alesi, Legislative Resolution 2658, 11 memorializing Governor George E. Pataki to 12 proclaim February 22, 1998 through February 13 28, 1998 as Manufactured Home Owners Week. 14 WHEREAS, a manufactured home is 15 an affordable housing alternative for a third 16 of the citizens that seek new housing in the 17 United States, and 18 WHEREAS, New York State has 19 nearly 4,500 -- 450,000 residents who reside 20 in manufactured homes located in parks and 21 communities; 22 The Statewide Park Resident 23 Home Owners Association has successfully 24 battled to retain the Mobile Manufactured 25 Tenants Rights Enforcement Division in the 1 Division of Housing and community renewal; 2 The Park Resident Home Owners 3 Association believes that the staff of this 4 division should be upgraded to enforce the 5 laws that protect manufactured home owners; 6 and 7 WHEREAS, the Park Resident Home 8 Owners Association will hold its first annual 9 convention on October 25, 1998 in Farmington, 10 New York; 11 The Association appeals to 12 owners of mobile and manufactured homes to 13 become involved in Association activities; 14 The Park Resident Home Owners 15 Association has asked the Division of Housing 16 and Community Renewal to create a commission 17 to hear cases brought by manufactured home 18 owners, and 19 WHEREAS, it is the sense of 20 this legislative body that when issues that 21 affect the citizens of this state are brought 22 to our attention, it is appropriate to seek 23 solutions for their concern; 24 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 25 that this legislative body pause in its 1 deliberations to memorialize Governor George 2 E. Pataki to proclaim February 22, 1998 3 through February 28, 1998 as Manufactured Home 4 Owners Week; and 5 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 6 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 7 be transmitted to Governor George E. Pataki 8 and the Park Resident Home Owners Association, 9 Incorporated. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Alesi. 11 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, 12 Madam President. 13 I'm honored to take this 14 opportunity to put forth this resolution 15 asking the Governor to proclaim this week 16 Manufactured Home Owners Week. 17 As many of my home owners know, 18 there are a number of people today in Albany 19 that came up in bus loads that convened here 20 as an organized group, the Park Resident Home 21 Owners group, in fact. They have been working 22 with me and with many of the legislators not 23 only in the Senate but in the next house as 24 well to improve the conditions of people 25 living in manufactured homes. 1 It's my goal in asking the 2 Governor to proclaim this as Manufactured Home 3 Owners Week, to elevate the recognition that 4 all of us should have in knowing that those 5 people that live in manufactured home parks 6 are first class citizens, are hard-working 7 taxpayers and are law-abiding honorable 8 people. 9 They've worked very well with 10 me and my colleagues to help improve their lot 11 legislatively, and by asking the Governor to 12 recognize this group by proclaiming this week 13 in their honor is indeed a privilege, and I 14 ask my colleagues to join me in encouraging 15 the Governor to proclaim this week 16 Manufactured Home Owners Week. 17 Thank you, Madam President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 19 on the resolution. All in favor please 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Those opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 24 The resolution is adopted. 25 Senator Kuhl. 1 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 2 would you announce to the members that there 3 will be an immediate meeting of the Alcoholism 4 and Drug Abuse Committee in the Majority 5 Conference Room, Room 332. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. There 7 will be an immediate meeting of the Alcoholism 8 and Drug Abuse Committee in Room 332. 9 Senator Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President, 11 may we now proceed to the controversial 12 calendar, and would you call up Calendar 13 Number 183 first, please. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 15 will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 183, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 545-A, an 18 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law 19 and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in relation 20 to exempting farm vehicles. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: 22 Explanation. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl, 24 an explanation is requested. 25 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you, Madam 1 President. 2 This is a bill that's been 3 before this house at least on one prior 4 occasion. It comes as a result of an act of 5 this house back in 1994. 6 In 1994, we passed a piece of 7 legislation that required certain vehicles 8 which had been previously exempt from 9 insurance provisions of this state and 10 required them to, in fact, insure those 11 vehicles. 12 What this bill does is proposes 13 to take us back to the pre-1994 situation 14 where some vehicles are, in fact, required to 15 be licensed but they're not being required to 16 be insured. This has proven to be an 17 extremely large and difficult burden for many 18 people in the agricultural community and we 19 think it's an unnecessary burden financially 20 because of the few accidents that are needed 21 for insurance provisions. 22 So that's the essence of the 23 bill. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 25 Paterson. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 2 If Senator Kuhl would yield for a question. 3 SENATOR KUHL: I'd be happy to 4 yield, Madam President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: You 8 deliberated on that a moment, Senator. 9 Senator, nonetheless, what would be the remedy 10 for an individual even though there are few 11 cases who would wind up in an accident with 12 one of these vehicles at a point that they 13 were transporting material or something like 14 that? 15 SENATOR KUHL: In most cases, 16 Senator, what we've found prior to the 1994 17 bill that these vehicles were covered, people 18 were covered for claims against the farmers 19 under their homeowners or their liability 20 policy. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: So, Senator, 22 what you're saying is that, in spite of the 23 lack of insurance, that there was a remedy for 24 anyone that would be victimized - 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 1 SENATOR KUHL: Correct. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Velella. 4 SENATOR VELELLA: Just hangin' 5 out. 6 SENATOR KUHL: Read the last 7 section. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 9 section, please. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 11 This act shall take effect on the 60th day. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll, 13 please. 14 (The Secretary called the 15 roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes -- those 17 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 18 183 are Senators Breslin, Dollinger, Kruger, 19 Leichter and Paterson. Ayes 48, nays 5. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 21 passed. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 23 President. Madam President, excuse me. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 25 Paterson. I'm sorry. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I'm sorry, I 2 may have put my hand up, but I was persuaded 3 by the comments of Senator Kuhl and also 4 Senator Velella, so I'm going to vote for the 5 bill. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 Paterson will be recorded in the affirmative. 8 The Secretary will read the 9 results again. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49, nays 11 4. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 SENATOR KUHL: Madam President. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 16 SENATOR KUHL: On the 17 controversial calendar - 18 THE PRESIDENT: We'd like to 19 hear Senator Kuhl. 20 SENATOR KUHL: Thank you. 21 Could we now take up Calendar 156 for Senator 22 Holland. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 24 will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 156, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 1588, an 2 act to amend the General Obligations Law, in 3 relation to the liability of persons involved 4 in equine activities. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 Paterson is requesting an explanation. 8 Senator Holland. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: This is a 10 bill that allows horse farms -- horse stables 11 to get away with limited liability - 12 SENATOR LACK: Get away with. 13 (Laughter). 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Get away from 15 me. 16 The problem right now is that 17 horse farms in the state of New York are 18 having difficulty staying in business because 19 of the Trial Lawyers and because of suits. We 20 want to remove that problem just like it is in 21 the ski industry in the state of New York, 22 make it similar. The bill's been up for three 23 years; this is the third year. We have a 24 sponsor in the Assembly. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 1 Senator Holland. 2 Senator Paterson. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 I don't really have any 6 questions. Just on the bill. 7 This is legislation that would 8 really call for what would be an assumption of 9 the risk on the part of rodeo contestants or 10 individuals that would own a horse and have it 11 involved in some activity, and really if 12 there's limited liability there would be some 13 understanding of that, but it's my general 14 position that these types of disputes are 15 resolved in the courts, that a hard and fast 16 rule for these types of situations would not 17 take into account the individual problems and 18 the specific issues that might relate to the 19 individual case and, therefore, we agree with 20 the Trial Lawyers and would hope that these 21 situations would be settled in a court and not 22 mandated by a sweeping piece of legislation. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 24 Senator Paterson. 25 Read the last section, please. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 2 This act shall take effect on the 90th day. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the 5 roll. ) 6 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 7 will record votes in the negative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 9 in the negative on Calendar Number 156 are 10 Senators Connor, Kruger and Paterson. Ayes 11 52, nays 3. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 Senator Kuhl. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 16 President. Could we now take up Calendar 17 Number 38 on the controversial calendar. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 19 read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 38, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 2088-A, an 22 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 23 in relation to enacting the Northeast 24 Interstate Dairy Compact and providing for the 25 implementation thereof. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl, 3 an explanation is requested. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 5 President. 6 I can't say, like a former 7 bill, that this bill has a rather simple 8 premise to it, but maybe it does. 9 This bill is about a way of 10 life. This bill is about the agriculture 11 community in the state of New York. This bill 12 is about the tremendous crisis that is 13 confronting the dairy industry in the state of 14 New York. This bill is about the fabric of 15 upstate communities that have depended upon 16 agriculture for not only weeks, months, years, 17 decades but centuries. 18 The dairy industry in New York 19 is really under attack. It's under attack 20 because of the pricing system in this country, 21 and what this bill does is, it allows the 22 state of New York to participate in what is 23 commonly known as the Northeast Interstate 24 Dairy Compact. 25 Very simply, an interstate 1 compact is a bill that is authorized under 2 Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution of 3 the United States, and it allows states to get 4 together, to resolve problems that confront 5 them on a regional basis that can't be 6 adequately addressed by federal legislation. 7 This is a concept that has been 8 being worked on by myself and other Senators, 9 not only in this state but other states in the 10 Northeast, for over a decade, but the crisis 11 has reached such monumental proportions today 12 that we're literally on a daily basis seeing 13 farmers forced out of their long-time 14 occupations; and so, this is a rescue effort, 15 albeit it is not the total solution to the 16 problem that's confronting the dairy industry 17 in this state and this country, but it is a 18 partial solution that we hope will stabilize 19 that part of the agriculture community for the 20 immediate future. 21 The bill, as I said, allows the 22 state of New York to enter into the Northeast 23 Interstate Dairy Compact. There currently are 24 six states in the Northeast, that -- all to 25 our north and to our east that comprise the 1 Northeast Interstate Dairy Compact. They have 2 been up and running for about not quite a 3 year. 4 The process is essentially that 5 this house and the Assembly need to adopt this 6 legislation. The legislation needs to be 7 signed into law by the Governor and then there 8 needs to be Congressional approval to allow 9 the state of New York to join this Northeast 10 Dairy Compact. We have every indication that 11 rather large producers of milk in this 12 Northeast region, namely Pennsylvania and New 13 Jersey, will join if New York joins. As a 14 matter of fact, legislation has been proposed 15 and adopted and signed into law by the 16 Governor of New Jersey that would allow New 17 Jersey to enter into the compact as soon as 18 New York does. So we are standing, if you 19 want to think of it in these terms, 20 potentially in the road to success, profit, 21 thriving agricultural industry in the state of 22 New Jersey, as well as Pennsylvania, because 23 the compact tells us that, in fact, for a 24 state to join an existing compact, that the 25 state has to be contiguous to that -- to those 1 existing states and certainly Pennsylvania and 2 New Jersey are not contiguous to the six 3 states that currently make up this body. 4 Now, as I indicated, this is a 5 bill that has been under study for several 6 years, and we have had, and I have had as 7 chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, 8 a number of conversations with people in that 9 industry about ways in which we can make it 10 profitable for them to do business in New York 11 and we have attempted to address the economic 12 issues that are controlled by this state, 13 things like real property taxes, things like 14 workers' compensation, things like 15 unemployment insurance, all of those issues 16 put together with regulatory reform, and we 17 have had, I think, a great deal of success in 18 making it more potentially profitable with 19 those items. 20 But there stands in the way, 21 one additional item and that is for a farmer 22 to make a profit they have to have a 23 reasonable return on the product that they 24 make and currently with the economic situation 25 in New York, there are a great number of New 1 York dairy farmers who are selling milk for 2 less than it costs them to produce it and if 3 that is going to continue, then certainly they 4 are going to go out of business and the 5 availability of fresh, locally grown or made 6 milk in New York will disappear. 7 So this is not a bill about 8 something that will resol... will resolve the 9 situation tomorrow. It's a bill that looks 10 farther down the line than this. This is 11 actually a pro-consumer bill. While being 12 helpful to the farmer in ensuring his 13 viability and his profitability, it also will 14 ensure to the consumer a fresh available low 15 cost product locally. 16 Over the last four or five 17 months, I've had the opportunity to join with 18 several Senators in this house in going into 19 their district and asking their constituency 20 what they thought about this proposal. 21 Senator Wright had a hearing in Watertown; 22 Senator Cook had one in Delhi; Senator Seward 23 had one in Cortland, and the overwhelming 24 response was, they needed relief, they needed 25 help in stabilizing the price which they're 1 paid for milk. 2 Now, there are reasons, and the 3 reasons are basically economic and what I'd 4 like to do is to share with you just quickly 5 some of the testimony, and there are volumes 6 of the testimony. We had a very large turn 7 out; a number of people spoke from factual 8 viewpoints, from emotional viewpoints, but I 9 thought that the economics would be of 10 interest to you because they specify basically 11 what the nature of the problem is. 12 This testimony was given at 13 Senator Cook's hearing in Delhi by a young man 14 by the name of Duane Martin, and he said: "My 15 name is Duane Martin. I'm a dairy farmer in 16 South Kortright, New York. We ship to Order 17 II and we're not receiving the compact price. 18 I farm with my parents on a 120-acre farm and 19 we have 47 dairy cows, 22 heifers and calves. 20 I'm a fifth generation dairy farmer in the 21 county. At the rate things are going, I might 22 be the very last. 23 "Both my parents work off the 24 farm. My mother works at South Kortright 25 school as a cafeteria manager and part time in 1 a restaurant. My father also works at the 2 school as a bus driver and a part-time 3 instructor. Their jobs, fortunately, provide 4 health insurance; otherwise we might not be 5 able to pay for our health insurance. But both 6 also work on the farm around their jobs 7 helping me. 8 "Our farm is paid for and the 9 only debt we have is our machinery. Our 10 current herd average is 20,852 pounds of milk 11 per cow. Sounds like we should be living with 12 money, but that's wrong. We are receiving 13 lower prices for our milk than we did 17 years 14 ago. 15 "In 1980," he said, "my father 16 dug out his records for 1980 -- my father 17 received for September milk $12.61 per 18 hundredweight." That's a hundred pounds of 19 milk. "Today we're receiving for our 20 September milk $12.56, five cents less per 21 hundred pounds produced. Our main form of 22 farm income, beef and cattle sales off the 23 farm. In 1980 my father received an average 24 price per cow," beef cow that is -- thank you, 25 Madam President, "and for his average beef cow 1 $120. Today -- my father sent two beef cows 2 last week and for both of them, both healthy, 3 he only received $525 and our average calf 4 sale has been $10. 5 "However, our other expenses 6 have gone up. For example, in 1980, we paid 7 $246.92 for electricity for the month. Our 8 school taxes were $1,489. Today our electric 9 bill went up to $1,319, most of it on the low 10 cost rate, roughly 70 percent of it getting up 11 at 3:00 o'clock in the morning and running 12 both high load loaders, tie line loaders into 13 night or morning milking before 6:00. 14 "Now, we need the dairy 15 compact," he said. "It's not only help for 16 the farmer, but it also helps the survival of 17 Delaware County and rural New York." 18 Another farmer, Leon Hunter, 19 testified in Watertown relative to the same 20 economic duress that he found himself in and 21 he said, "Last night after chores I went to 22 looking up the figures for 1978, 20 years ago. 23 After reading some of the receipts I begin to 24 wonder how any of us are still farming. In 25 the fall of 1978, basic formula price was 1 $11.54. This year in May we received $10.70, 2 some 84 cents less. 3 "Since 1963," he said, "milk 4 prices have doubled on the average of every 5 ten years. In 1963, the price was $3.11; in 6 '73 it was $6.30; in '83 it was $12.49, but 7 in 1993, it was $11.80. It had gone back 8 down." He said, "This price should have been 9 $24.98. If we had gotten that we'd have 10 thought we'd died and went to heaven," he 11 said. 12 Then he went on to talk about 13 his expenses. Also our electricity in 1978 14 was charged at the rate of three and a half 15 cents per kilowatt hour. This year the 16 cheapest our electricity is seven and a half 17 cents per kilowatt hour and it can range up to 18 20 cents during the peak time of day. 19 Diesel fuel in 1978 was 50 20 cents a gallon; today it's 85 cents a gallon. 21 Gasoline was 62 cents back then. Today it's 22 $1.35. In 19 -- excuse me, "Today, soy bean" 23 -- excuse me. "Soy bean meal was about $10 a 24 bag," a hundred pounds, today it's over 16. 25 He also mentions the beef 1 cows. In 1978, he said, I got for a cow that 2 weighed 425 or 20 pounds, sold for $582, over 3 41 cents a pound. Today you're lucky to get 4 two for that, sell two for that same price. 5 In 1978 he said his taxes, 6 school and land, were total $758. Last year 7 both the taxes combined were $5,489. That's a 8 700 percent increase in 18 years. 9 We also had testimony given to 10 us, and I think it really sets the mode not 11 only of the economics but of the real trial 12 and the burden that these farm community or 13 farm families are facing. We had a young 14 woman by the name of Rachel Roberts, at 15 Watertown testify and I want to read this to 16 you because I think it really gives you the 17 perspective of what they're all facing. 18 Most of us view the farm 19 communities as beautiful red barns and silos 20 and pretty green grass and fields of yellow 21 and oats and things of that nature, but if you 22 look closely that's vastly changing. 23 Rachel Roberts said: "Good 24 afternoon. I had the opportunity to observe 25 the dairy situation from several different 1 perspectives, all at the same time. Like many 2 people in the room, I do go to work and I go 3 on with my life, but that doesn't seem to 4 completely suffice. 5 "My husband and I own a little 6 dairy farm. I'm the director of a local milk 7 producers cooperative. I teach in a 8 agricultural community and I'm a lay pastor 9 serving a church in the farm community. Other 10 people have addressed this situation from the 11 point of view of facts and figures. I'd like 12 to talk a little bit about the human side of 13 the story. 14 "My husband and I have a 15 little dairy farm. By the standards of most 16 folks, it's a tiny dairy farm. I know from my 17 own experience what it is to be part of a farm 18 family. I'm the one responsible for writing 19 the checks when they get written and I know 20 first hand the frustration of juggling the 21 funds to try to keep the least amount of 22 people unhappy with you. 23 "I know that no matter how 24 much you juggle, there's not enough to do what 25 we need to do with this money. I also view the 1 life of the farmer from the point of view of 2 someone who teaches their children. I teach 3 in a small community where still one-quarter 4 of our students come from farm families. As a 5 teacher, I know what happens when there isn't 6 enough income on the farm. 7 "One of the first expenses to 8 be cut is the hired help which maybe seems 9 logical. This labor shortage is made up by 10 the family. The parents work longer hours and 11 the children work lots more hours, not more 12 than their parents but more they used to. 13 Many of my students go to the barn before they 14 go to school in the morning and they go there 15 again when they get home at night. This is 16 true with my own children as well as some of 17 my students. This limits the amount of time 18 that they have for study and the amount of 19 time that they have for play and, while you 20 can certainly argue that farm kids have done 21 this forever, you find the situation to be 22 different than it was even a few years ago. I 23 watch the brightest and the best juggle time 24 schedules that are extremely demanding as they 25 struggle to do the excellent work that they're 1 used to doing. Those who are less able just 2 don't bother to do it at all. I'm concerned 3 now that many of them will face the future 4 without academic skills that they need to be 5 truly successful, not because their teachers 6 didn't teach them well enough, not because 7 their parents didn't care, but because there 8 just weren't enough hours in the day to get 9 everything done. 10 "In response to my own 11 family's financial dilemma, I have several 12 part-time jobs. For the past four years I've 13 served as a lay pastor of several small 14 Presbyterian churches in southern St. Lawrence 15 County and northern Jefferson County. I've 16 watched that the situation at best from 17 another perspective because people tell their 18 pastors things they won't tell their friends 19 and neighbors. I personally know a lot of 20 farmers without health insurance, not the 21 first time today you've heard that. They've 22 canceled their policies because they just 23 can't afford to pay the premiums. Doesn't 24 matter what the premiums are, they just can't 25 afford them. I've sat with farm women as they 1 sat with me and talked to me about the 2 difficult decisions they're making with regard 3 to their children's health care. 4 "I remember a woman with a 5 child who is allergic to bee stings and had 6 used this bee sting kit before and this time 7 when her child was stung she had hoped that a 8 bottle of Benadryl that she kept in the 9 bathroom would do the trick because it was all 10 she really could afford. 11 "Preventive care, especially 12 for women, is basically non-existent. As a 13 woman, it's easy to put groceries for your 14 family ahead of the yearly physical for 15 yourself. 16 "And then there's the issue of 17 food. Farmers are some of the proudest people 18 on the face of the earth. Most I know would 19 go without before asking anyone outside their 20 family for help. Five years ago in an effort 21 to do a very small bit to at least encourage 22 some farmers that we have, some of us decided 23 to distribute Thanksgiving baskets. Don't 24 give anything -- don't give farmers anything 25 at Christmas because Christmas is for charity 1 and Thanksgiving is for saying thank you. 2 "The first years the farmers 3 took them to be -- excuse me. The first 4 farmer -- the first year the farmers who took 5 them were polite and they were embarrassed and 6 so were we. Often we delivered the food at a 7 time when no one was around so that we could 8 leave it and run. We joked the only way you 9 could ever help a farmer was under the cover 10 of darkness when he or she didn't know what 11 you were doing. We operated this way for 12 three years. 13 "Last year things changed. 14 When we delivered food even to places we'd 15 never even been before, people welcomed us. 16 It didn't seem to matter why we had chosen 17 them, it was food and while they weren't 18 starving by any means, they were grateful. 19 Well, it's almost Thanksgiving and the woman 20 who helps me coordinate this food distribution 21 talked to me last night about what we're going 22 to do this year. In less than five minutes, 23 we listed more farms where we knew the food 24 was needed than we had food to distribute. 25 "This year we have had farmers 1 ask us if they could be included. This is 2 unusual. It's also terrible that the people 3 who feed this country often can't feed their 4 family. When the price of milk is not able to 5 cover the reasonable cost of production and 6 the cost of expenses to farmers, which is part 7 of what reasonable people take for granted 8 such as warm houses, sufficient health care, 9 and farmers work long hard hours every week to 10 produce food for the rest of the country. 11 "It doesn't matter whether the 12 farm is high tech' and very labor-efficient or 13 low tech' and labor-intensive. It doesn't 14 make any difference if you milk 20 cows or 15 300. It doesn't matter if the farmer is 16 recognized by other folks in the state as 17 being one to be admired for his or her 18 successful modern approach to farming or the 19 farmer who farms traditionally organically. 20 What's happening to the family farm and the 21 family farmer, I believe, is nothing short of 22 criminal," and that's the way she concluded 23 her testimony. 24 This proposal is a proposal 25 that would stabilize the prices being paid to 1 farmers. There are some people who say it 2 would cost more for the consumer, and 3 experience shows that in some cases that is 4 true, but experience shows us also that in 5 some cases that is not true, and if you talk 6 about, even if we would assume that the price 7 were to go up, we're looking at a minimal 8 increase, but we're looking at the salvation 9 of an industry by New York participating in 10 this particular compact. 11 There are other states, as I 12 mentioned, six who have gone on record as 13 supporting this proposal, and just to give you 14 an idea of what they think of their 15 agriculture community, let me give you a kind 16 of a for instance as to what the level of 17 participation of the dairy industry is in 18 those states. 19 Take for instance Maine. How 20 many dairy farmers are there in Maine? Well, 21 last count last year there were 509 dairy 22 farmers, 40,000 cows, for a population of 23 1,242,000 people. 24 How about Rhode Island? Rhode 25 Island elected to participate in this program. 1 They have 32 dairy farmers, 2,000 cows, for a 2 population of 987,000. Massachusetts has 310 3 dairy farmers, population of 6 million, 26,000 4 dairy cows. 5 New York, where are we? We're a 6 large producer. We have, at least at last 7 count, and there are probably 4- or 500 less 8 now, 8,754 farmers. We produce eleven and a 9 half billion pounds of milk, 702,000 cows, and 10 we have a population of 18 million people. 11 It would seem to me that as 12 much of a presence as the dairy community has 13 in this state that this house and this state 14 should be as supportive of this industry as it 15 possibly can be. 16 That -- Mr. Acting Minority 17 Leader, is a short explanation of what this 18 bill attempts to do. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 I didn't actually hear that, 24 Senator. Would you repeat it? 25 SENATOR KUHL: If you'd like. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm 2 aware there's a list, and I'm aware that 3 Senator Wright is next to speak, so what I'll 4 do is I'll save some of my questions until 5 later, but I do have just a preliminary 6 question. 7 I'd just like to have you 8 comment on the concept of value as it impinges 9 upon what would be the goals of this partic 10 ular piece of legislation. The small farms 11 and the myriad problems that they are 12 experiencing, which sounds very much like 13 what's happening to small supermarkets in many 14 ways in the competitive market, being unable 15 to keep up with the large mega stores or even 16 small hardware stores trying to compete with 17 the large department stores, something that 18 you talked about in some of your IDA 19 legislation two years ago. 20 Here it's happening the same 21 way, but the fact is that, while you may 22 change the level of living for small farms in 23 this legislation, I wonder if you change the 24 standard of living. What I mean by that is 25 that the small farms would perhaps benefit for 1 an average $1300 from this bill while some of 2 the large agribusinesses would profit to the 3 tune of maybe $200,000 if this legislation is 4 passed, and so the question is, would the 5 passage of this legislation just lead to other 6 changes which, while there would be more 7 money, there would actually be a standard of 8 living for those small farms that is -- that 9 is maybe less than what it is right now. 10 I'd also like, if you wouldn't 11 mind, if you would comment on the fact that 12 there is pretty much a uniform agreement among 13 those who are either advocating for or against 14 this piece of legislation, that it will enure 15 to the raising of milk prices around the 16 state. Now, it may not be 20 cents per gallon 17 as some are forecasting and perhaps there have 18 been some overzealous predictions of what that 19 would actually be, but even a four-cent price 20 which would be on average maybe $4 per family 21 would still injure those least able to afford 22 it. We mean by that children, we mean by that 23 seniors. 24 So what I would -- my basic 25 question is how does your bill address this 1 and is there a way fully to find a graduated 2 form of relief for those small farmers that 3 would benefit them while at the same time 4 maybe not transferring the pain to those small 5 people in society who would have to bear it? 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: Let me address 8 the second question first, Senator. 9 When you look at the overall, 10 and I tried -- believe it or not, I tried to 11 keep my explanation short. When you look at 12 the overall proposal and that is conceptually 13 to allow New York to join the Northeast Dairy 14 Compact, and then you start to look at the 15 detail, you'll look very quickly and see that 16 all of the states who are participants in this 17 compact have the right to determine what their 18 membership representation is going to be. 19 In this proposal, New York 20 State's membership representation would be 21 five people, an individual appointed by the 22 Governor, one by the Senate Majority Leader, a 23 person by the Senate Minority Leader, a person 24 represented or appointed by the Assembly 25 Speaker and a person appointed by the Assembly 1 Minority Leader, five individuals. 2 The requirement relative to 3 representation would indicate that there would 4 need to be at least one consumer represent 5 ative and one active farmer on that. What we 6 have seen statistically, as a result of the 7 six states, that there are almost equal 8 representation from both sectors on that. 9 Now, what I'm saying to you is 10 that there is a monitoring provision from the 11 community dealing with the sale of milk which 12 really will control what the compact price 13 is. Now, this is the price that is paid to 14 farmers, and it's not related to necessarily 15 the price at which milk is sold at the retail 16 stores, so while experience has shown us that 17 in this initial stage that there has been some 18 increase, there's also been a reduction of 19 that down to a very minimal increase at the 20 current time. 21 One of the -- one of the 22 issues, I think, that gets by-passed relative 23 to the pricing mechanism in this statute and 24 the discussion of it -- and people may not 25 talk about it for obvious reasons -- is that 1 under the current compact that's in existence 2 in the Northeast, farmers will be being paid 3 the same price, $16.94 -- 98 cents? -- 94 4 cents per hundredweight from now until the 5 termination or the renewal of the compact some 6 time in 1999. 7 That is not currently the 8 situation. The situation currently is that a 9 farmer does not know what he's going -- he or 10 she are going to get paid for next month. 11 They're producing milk without knowing what 12 the price is going to be. This takes that 13 out, this jeopardy, if you will, that they're 14 in, but also it takes out the uncertainty, so 15 that now they can plan ahead and also 16 retailers can plan ahead because they know 17 what their cost is going to be, so they can 18 then relate to that particular known cost and 19 they don't have to err on the high side of 20 profitability if he retail store and keep 21 prices up when the price the farmer is being 22 paid goes down. That's one of the problems 23 we've seen in the instability of the market 24 and, therefore, it would be pure speculation 25 for us to say that the price increase is going 1 to be 4 cents or 20 cents or even going to go 2 down 10 cents. I could not tell you that, in 3 all honesty. 4 My expectation, because of 5 experience and what we're seeing and what 6 currently is being paid at the retail store in 7 the compact region and what is being paid in 8 the city of New York, which is actually more 9 than what is being paid in the compact region, 10 is that there's going to be little 11 difference. 12 Now, with regard to your 13 question of life style, and whether or not 14 this is going to increase the value of life 15 style. This is the difference for a number of 16 people in the dairy industry of survival. It 17 has nothing to do with life style. It's either 18 they continue in the operation of dairy 19 farming, or they don't. We have statistics 20 from banking institutions that tell us that 70 21 percent of the dairy industry is in either 22 dire economic circumstances or slightly less 23 than dire economic circumstances and are under 24 very moderate or severe stress. 25 So this is something that is 1 actually absolutely vital to the long-term 2 viability of the dairy industry in New York. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 4 Wright. 5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, 6 Madam President. 7 First of all, let me begin by 8 thanking my colleagues on the other side of 9 the aisle and my colleagues downstate who have 10 joined with the Governor and ourselves over 11 the past couple of years to provide property 12 tax relief to dairy farmers throughout upstate 13 New York. When you did that, you recognized 14 the plight of the dairy farmer. You 15 recognized the importance of agriculture to 16 this state and you did the right thing for the 17 people of our districts and for all of the 18 people of the state and not at any hindrance 19 to your own constituencies. 20 I would suggest to you this 21 afternoon that you can do that again by voting 22 in favor of the compact. The compact is not 23 consumer versus farmer. The compact is not 24 upstate versus downstate. The compact is not 25 an effort to tax milk for the poor, for 1 children in schools, and the compact is not 2 welfare for "corporate farms" upstate. 3 I can assure you in my district 4 there's no such thing as a corporate farm. 5 Regardless of how it may be portrayed by some 6 and maybe portrayed editorially in this state, 7 that is not the situation of the upstate dairy 8 farmer. 9 The upstate dairy farmer is in 10 considerably more stress, more dire straits 11 than I think you even recognize. We don't 12 like to talk about that. As farmers, we're 13 very proud people. We're very independent 14 people. They are here seeking legislative 15 redress because it is the only avenue that 16 remains available to create an economic gain 17 for them in terms of improving their 18 livelihood, sustaining their life style, 19 sustaining the farms in New York State. 20 My colleague, Senator Kuhl, has 21 very clearly articulated that in sharing some 22 of the testimony across this state, and we 23 hosted a hearing in Watertown, and that sits 24 in the heart of dairy country in the North 25 Country, and some of the prime dairy country 1 in this state in Jefferson and St. Lawrence 2 Counties. 3 Let me share with you the 4 testimony of one individual that I believe 5 portrays not only the cost implication but 6 what these individuals on farms deal with 7 every day, and, of course, I lost the page I 8 was looking for. 9 Let me read from the 10 testimony. "My name is Sherry Rogers. My 11 husband Gene is in the audience. We have a 12 600-acre dairy farm in the town of Houndsfield 13 in Jefferson County, where we have 50 milk 14 cows and 50 young stock. I will attempt to 15 tell you how the declining price of raw milk 16 and the ever-increasing cost of commodities in 17 the market is affecting our lives. 18 "When I thought about what I 19 wanted to say today, I recalled a bumper 20 sticker, I picked up at the Jefferson County 21 Fair in 1979. It read, quote, 'Farmers Need' 22 -- 'Farmers Need You Three Times A Day,' end 23 quote. In these days of grocery superstores 24 with all-night shopping and Sam's Clubs that 25 sell 10-pound blocks of cheddar, it is 1 difficult for most people to realize that some 2 of these dairy products start at the small 3 family farm you pass as you drive out Route 3 4 in Houndsfield. It has a faded red barn, and 5 50 or so cows grazing on the green grass of a 6 roadside pasture. 7 "The picture most of you 8 conjure right now probably has a man in 9 overalls happily working away to get their 10 crops planted or the baled hay into the barn 11 before the rain comes. You might even see him 12 taking the old farm truck in to town to pick 13 up a spare part for the tractor or a bag of 14 seed grain, not unlike scenes we saw portrayed 15 throughout our youth. 16 "In your mind's eye, there 17 could be a farm wife diligently working in her 18 garden as she waits for her bread dough to 19 rise. Her greatest concern is only that it 20 will be out of the oven in time for dinner. 21 All the while she would have one eye on the 22 children in the yard, a couple of them tossing 23 hay bales onto the elevator destined for the 24 mow. The two smaller boys are playing in a 25 sand pile with their toy farm equipment. 1 "In reality, however, the farm 2 family in 1997 is not so idyllic as the scene 3 I have just described to you. Farming is a 4 business. Today the farmer you picture would 5 spend a great deal of their time concerned 6 about milk quality incentives and soil 7 erosion. He also has to weigh the benefit of 8 using pesticides on his crops against the 9 possible detrimental effects it may have on 10 the environment. Like any other businessman 11 he needs to be aware of the latest advances in 12 technology, whether it be machinery, plant 13 hybrids, precision farming or the most recent 14 finding to increase milk production. 15 "In fact, on our farm as is 16 the case with most farms, my husband has found 17 it necessary to take part-time position to 18 bolster the income; and the farm wife you saw, 19 she cannot take time to make bread. She's out 20 in the fields or on the tractor or in the barn 21 with her husband. They're both working just 22 as hard and as long as they can to keep this 23 family farm moving forward and, if she stops 24 to think about it long enough, she doesn't 25 know why they're working so hard for so little 1 return. You see, like many family farms, this 2 one was passed down from her husband's father 3 and their plan was that their children might 4 one day choose farming as a way of life. 5 "The four children all have 6 college degrees, in much part thanks to the 7 state of New York, but as you look at what has 8 occurred, it's been difficult. We cannot 9 encourage them to make plans that would 10 include any part of farming with the 11 diminishing returns," and then she shared a 12 few of her own personal statistics comparing 13 1979 to '97: 14 Milk at 11.50 per hundredweight 15 versus 12.20. A ton of feed at $60 versus 16 $190. A pick-up truck at $9,000 versus 17 $28,000. You don't buy new any more, you buy 18 used. A tractor at $20,000, now at $75,000. 19 Again, you no longer buy new, you buy used. 20 An electric bill that's $300 a month 20 years 21 later is $600 a month, and it goes on, because 22 not only is that a depiction of what really 23 occurs, because the children have left, there 24 is no one to pass the farm onto. Because of 25 the diminished value of the farm, there is 1 nobody that wants to purchase the farm and 2 what you find is that that man and wife 3 continuing to work at the age of 65, at 70, 4 getting up every day, going out and milking 5 their 50, 60, 70 herd. 6 That's not what we want for the 7 people of New York State. That's not what you 8 want for your constituents. That's not what I 9 want for my constituents. I think this is 10 about sustaining a reasonable life style in 11 this state that we all have an obligation to 12 do. Many of us describe ourselves as 13 advocates for the poor. I would suggest in 14 doing that, you may want to adopt a farmer, 15 because if you look at what has occurred in 16 the last 20 years, the milk price has hovered 17 at a flat no-increase and at the same time 18 public assistance on average has increased by 19 50 percent in this state, and the minimum wage 20 has increased by over 90 percent in this 21 state, neither of which have benefited the 22 farmer of New York State. 23 If we're concerned about the 24 money going to corporate farms, then the best 25 thing we can do is not pass the compact, allow 1 the dairy industry to continue to decline and 2 atrophy in the state of New York, so that we 3 then begin bringing our milk from California, 4 because the corporate farms that do exist in 5 the western portion of this nation, the 6 corporate farms that have dumped their milk 7 into the market, that have created the price 8 difficulties that we have, they will be the 9 ultimate benefactors. They will be the ones 10 that will be receiving the benefit of the cost 11 increases to the other individuals of this 12 state. 13 That's not what I want for this 14 state. That's not what I believe you want for 15 this state. In the past, you have supported 16 the dairy community. You have supported 17 upstate. I again call on you this afternoon 18 and encourage you to do likewise today. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 21 Thank you, Senator Wright. Senator Waldon. 22 Suffer an interruption, Senator Waldon. 23 Senator Kuhl. 24 SENATOR KUHL: Recognize 25 Senator Waldon. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 2 Senator Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 4 President. 5 Would the sponsor, Senator 6 Kuhl, respond to a question, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 8 Senator Kuhl, will you yield? 9 SENATOR KUHL: I'll be happy 10 to. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT NOZZOLIO: 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, I am 14 very much concerned about the (Inaudible 15 microphone not turned on) I just want some 16 edification so that I can understand better 17 what this state can do, perhaps what we should 18 do and perhaps what we need to do today 19 regarding the compact and its potential. 20 One -- one, if I may, are there 21 other methods of helping the farmer than the 22 compact? You alluded earlier that the state 23 had taken some steps in regard to, I believe 24 it was tax relief. Can you enumerate some 25 other ways that we might be able to help the 1 farmers, the dairy farmers, to sustain 2 themselves other than just the benefit of this 3 compact if we should pass it today? 4 SENATOR KUHL: Senator, there 5 are ways that we can try to help the 6 agriculture industry out, and I believe we've 7 attempted to do that in many different ways 8 that have been somewhat successful. The 9 problem that we face, however, in the 10 circumstances that we have, are very simply 11 that farmers are not being paid enough to pay 12 for the cost of their production. 13 I don't know -- I don't know, 14 Senator, that we can get into the cost of 15 production to the degree that will make their 16 production profitable. That's the problem. The 17 underlying response to how can we resolve this 18 issue over years from the farming community 19 generally has been just give us a fair price 20 for our milk that we can make a profit on. 21 That's all they're asking for, and that's what 22 we're trying to do in this bill. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 25 President, would the gentleman yield again? 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Senator Kuhl, 3 could we - 4 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Waldon, 5 just a minute. We've got some of members who 6 need to cast their votes, so if you don't mind 7 we'll just interrupt. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Skelos. 10 SENATOR KUHL: Can we have the 11 last section read? 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 13 President, if we could have the last section 14 read for the purposes of three members voting. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Read the 16 last section, please. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Would you 22 recognize Senator Leichter, please. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 24 Leichter. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 1 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Rath. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath. 3 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 4 SENATOR KUHL: Senator LaValle. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 LaValle. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Withdraw the 9 roll call and continue the debate. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Withdraw the 11 roll call, please, and continue the debate. 12 Senator Waldon. 13 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, could 14 we do something in regards to an insurance 15 program in our state which would protect dairy 16 farmers from down side price movements? Have 17 we tried to do anything in that regard? 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Insurance 20 program? 21 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 22 SENATOR KUHL: No. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Have we 24 attempted to do something in regard to the 25 change and fluctuation in the prices of feed 1 when production of milk is down? The farmer, 2 not having been a farmer, but when the prices 3 of feed go up in the west, out in the west, 4 the effects of a tremendous El Nino -- El 5 Nino, however you pronounce it, a situation 6 which affects the ability of the crops that 7 are being produced, and we mentioned farm 8 subsidy here, is there any way to ensure that 9 they will have the money to buy the feed at an 10 increased cost so that they can produce the 11 milk that we need in this state? 12 SENATOR KUHL: In all cases, 13 we've attempted to remove ourselves from any 14 kind of farm subsidy programs. As you know, 15 we've gone through this NAFTA regulation, 16 those kinds of things, where it's discouraged 17 to do that and we've attempted to do that. 18 And this program is really not a subsidy 19 program. This is allowing people to get 20 together and set the price for which their 21 products are going to be sold and so that's 22 what we've attempted to do, and the programs 23 that you're talking about are essentially 24 subsidy programs which we have not wanted to 25 involve government. 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 4 Madam President. If the gentleman would 5 continue to yield. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 7 SENATOR KUHL: I'd be happy to. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: I had never 10 surmised that this was a subsidy program. I 11 understand what we're trying to do. I just 12 wanted to make sure that we are doing all that 13 we can do. Is there any way that we can 14 create a program when the -- I guess the term 15 is when the farm is in short shrift regarding 16 money. Is there anything that we can do to 17 ensure that they will have a lower interest 18 loan capability than they have now so that 19 they, one, don't get into a cash crunch, and, 20 two, don't have to sell off property in order 21 to sustain themselves, and, three, don't 22 actually end up having to auction off their 23 farms because they weren't able to get money 24 at a reasonable rate to sustain themselves in 25 the crisis? 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Wald... 2 Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: I'm not aware of 4 any proposals in that line, Senator Waldon, 5 but again there are -- as you know, there are 6 in some cases constitutional provisions that 7 would prohibit that kind of general program. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 9 Waldon. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 11 President, thank you very much. 12 Senator, one or two more 13 questions if I may, and I'm not trying to 14 burden you. I just want to make sure I 15 understand what's going on. 16 Have you ever considered in the 17 state creating a program whereby the farmers 18 are doing O.K. And they're able to save some 19 money, put it away, if a crisis occurs and 20 they have to reach into that savings, makes it 21 very difficult to ever replace. Have you 22 considered creating a program where they could 23 borrow that money during a crises and not 24 having to pay the high interest rates of 25 inflation or not suffer the loss of that 1 money, so they get it back and they don't 2 always make money. Farmers, I'm told, are just 3 living hand to mouth, many of them. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 5 SENATOR KUHL: Not that I'm 6 aware of, Senator. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 8 Waldon. 9 SENATOR WALDON: If I may, 10 Madam President. Thank you. 11 Senator, is there a companion 12 bill in the Assembly that is being worked on 13 as you have worked on this bill here? 14 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, there is. 15 SENATOR WALDON: There is. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, and the 17 chairman of the Senate Agriculture -- or 18 excuse me, the Assembly Agriculture Committee, 19 Bill Parment, is carrying that bill. 20 SENATOR WALDON: If I may 21 again, Madam President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 23 Waldon. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, in 25 creating this compact, my understanding from 1 looking at the material given to me is that 2 those who are on the bottom rung of the ladder 3 as farmers, those who are the smallest farmers 4 will benefit the least, that this four-cent 5 increase created by the compact will allow 6 them to make about 1,200 and change, whereas 7 the larger farms with 400 or more cows, some 8 of them will make as much as $175,000 by this 9 legislation. 10 If that is true, do you believe 11 that that is equitable in terms of what we're 12 trying to do? 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kuhl. 14 SENATOR KUHL: There is no 15 disproportionate favoritism in this bill 16 toward any size farm, Senator. 80 percent of 17 the dairy farmers in New York have fewer than 18 a hundred milk cows, and so you can see just 19 from the number that most of the farmers in 20 this state are what -- are what would be 21 considered as small farmers, and they will 22 receive a proportionate equal share to anybody 23 who happens to have more cows than that. The 24 average dairy farm has 110 milking cows in 25 this state. That, by no means, is a large 1 farm, so disproportionate fairness in this, 2 there is none. This is a bill that's meant to 3 deal with everybody equitably and everybody 4 will stand to benefit equitably if they do 5 from this legislation. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 Waldon. 8 SENATOR WALDON: On the bill, 9 Madam President. 10 I want to thank you very much, 11 Senator; I appreciate your patience. 12 I'm going to support this 13 bill. I'm going to support it because I think 14 that we're long overdue in doing something for 15 the dairy farmers in our state. I recall when 16 I came to the Assembly in 1983, I believe it 17 was -- that's a long time back to remember - 18 there were many more dairy farms and many more 19 processors. It was understanding that two 20 thirds of the processors, milk processors who 21 existed at that time are no longer in 22 business, and maybe as many proportionately, 23 farmers are now out of business. 24 It is my understanding that 25 farmers are being forced to auction their 1 farms off because they just can't make it any 2 more. The business climate for farmers is so 3 bad that people who have invested their entire 4 lives, parents invested their lives, grand 5 parents invested their lives in the soil of 6 New York State, now have to in frustration 7 give up and auction off their farms. 8 I think that is wrong, and I 9 don't think that we are looking to create a 10 welfare situation as I saw capitalized in some 11 of the papers, in regards to the farmers. 12 These are very hardy people, those I've met 13 and come to the office here in the Capitol. 14 They're very independent, people who want to 15 just have an opportunity to do what they do 16 and do well, but I think that we have not done 17 justice by them. I don't know if this is a 18 one-house bill or not. I hope not, but I do 19 believe that we owe them something as a state, 20 and this may just be a small step in that 21 direction. I think it is far too little. I 22 think it is far too late, and I hope that this 23 will be a signal to all of us in this house 24 and in the other house and on the second floor 25 to get our act together and make sure that an 1 industry which was the linchpin of this state, 2 the prime industry of this state at one time, 3 a part of the farming industry which is a fine 4 industry in this state will again see greater 5 viability. 6 I hope that what we do today is 7 just the beginning of a new approach to 8 ensuring that the backbone of our state, the 9 farmers, are given their fair share. 10 I thank you very much, Madam 11 President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 13 Hoffmann. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 15 Madam President. 16 I'm very proud that our house 17 is voting on this measure today, and it's been 18 a long time coming. It was ten years ago that 19 the original legislation to create a Northeast 20 Dairy Compact was drafted by the Legislative 21 Commission on the Dairy Industry. At that 22 time Senator John McHugh chaired both the 23 Agriculture Committee in this house and that 24 commission. He has now moved on to the United 25 States Congress, where he was one of the major 1 supporters of the dairy compact for the New 2 England states when it was implemented. One 3 of the other principal supporters was Senator 4 Patrick Leahy from Vermont, and he has shared 5 with a great passion his concern for dairy 6 farmers. 7 Aside from those two gentlemen, 8 most of our representation from all of the 9 northeastern part of the United States and 10 from this state is very urban or suburban as 11 is the representation in this legislative body 12 and in the body across the hallway, and 13 therein lies the major problem. It is a 14 problem of personal knowledge and personal 15 experience, lacking in most of us because we 16 are several generations removed from the 17 farm. It is difficult for people in this 18 chamber, and it is difficult for people in the 19 other chamber and it is difficult for people 20 in the media who report this issue to 21 understand the economic realities and the day 22 to-day life cycle of people who are engaged in 23 production agriculture. 24 It is very, very hard for 25 people who have never done it, whose relatives 1 have never done it to understand the 2 implications of getting up before dawn in the 3 morning, working 10- and 12-hour days without 4 a break, 7 days a week and to understand that 5 our farm families in this state are doing this 6 and still losing money is an unfathomable 7 concept to most people in this house. 8 There is another very, very 9 important issue going on as this dairy compact 10 debate unfolds, and that to me is something 11 that I have to step back at for a few moments 12 and take a look at from a skill that I 13 employed in a previous life. As a former 14 journalist and a former teacher what I am 15 observing here is nothing short of an absolute 16 masterpiece in manipulation of propaganda by 17 the opponents of the dairy compact, and I want 18 to make sure that my colleagues understand 19 that the opponents of the dairy compact are 20 not limited to a few people in this state who 21 have made a sizeable profit off the backs of 22 dairy farming, but the opponents of the 23 Northeast Dairy Compact are, in fact, 24 opponents of the concept of compacts for any 25 place in the United States, and these people 1 have become skilled in the art of lobbying and 2 in the art of public relations, and they 3 recognize that, because it is their own 4 business as milk dealers or milk processors, 5 they are not going to be received with the 6 greatest amount of sympathy for protecting 7 their profit motive. 8 They have found a very, very 9 clever way to convey what they think would be 10 a marketable message to people uninformed with 11 the realities of production agriculture: What 12 they have done is to utilize existing consumer 13 groups and to sometimes subsidize existing 14 consumer groups and even to create brand new 15 consumer groups who can go out and use skill 16 tactics of the worst sort to frighten people 17 into thinking that somehow their lives will 18 change and milk will not be an affordable 19 commodity. 20 I am so grieved and so 21 frustrated by this propaganda war being waged 22 against the farmers of this state that I 23 become speechless trying to find a way to 24 defeat it, but I'm asking everyone in this 25 chamber to take a very careful look at the 1 language that has been used by the people 2 submitting memos of opposition and look into 3 your own hearts and ask if you would use that 4 kind of language to characterize an ethnic 5 group, a religious group, people of another 6 race. 7 All of us as public officials 8 have a responsibility to be sympathetic to 9 people about whom we may not be as familiar as 10 our own circle of friends. Do we not expect 11 that much, at least that much from the New 12 York Times? Should we not expect that much 13 from organizations that purport to represent 14 senior citizens and young children and poor 15 people in New York City? But that is not the 16 case. What they have done is an 17 unconscionable smear campaign directed against 18 the hard-working dairy farmers of this state, 19 and it is a disgrace. 20 Let me read a few of the 21 statements that have been made in opposition 22 to this dairy compact and, point by point, 23 let's go through why they are incorrect and, 24 more importantly, why it is sad that they have 25 been made at all. 1 First of all, the Northeast 2 Dairy Compact will not enact a milk tax. That 3 is the single most scurrilous charge that has 4 been made. A milk tax which will only assist 5 "milkionaires" in getting richer. We've all 6 seen the memorandum and we've seen it 7 reprinted almost as a statement of fact by 8 reliable and very distinguished publications. 9 The true fact is that New York 10 dairy farmers have and are presently 11 subsidizing the price consumers pay for milk. 12 The farmer receives less per hundredweight of 13 milk than it costs him or her to produce that 14 milk. A tax is something which government 15 levies. A tax is a fee collected by 16 government for government services. It has 17 nothing to do with the price for a commodity 18 set by a duly constituted entity such as the 19 Northeast Dairy Compact. 20 "Milkionaires". This is 21 probably one of the most troubling things I've 22 seen in a long time. Boy, it's really 23 clever. This is how people in the public 24 relations world make big bucks, and this 25 relies on one of those stereotypes that's held 1 by a lot of people in the metropolitan area 2 and I don't just mean the New York City 3 metropolitan area, but other metropolitan 4 areas and that is an assumption that if people 5 have large amounts of land they are, 6 therefore, wealthy. Hence "milkionaires". It 7 is true that farmers obviously have to have a 8 great deal of land. You need several hundred 9 acres if you have several hundred cows. You 10 probably need at least 150 if you have 60 11 cows, which is the going number of cows to 12 support in any kind of standard of living, a 13 modest family. 14 But these are not people who 15 are able to turn their capital assets into 16 liquid wealth. When a farm family is down on 17 its luck, or when they're just trying to pay 18 taxes, they have to sell some of their land. 19 How many times can you do that and still have 20 enough left to farm? I have neighbors and 21 relatives who I've watched go through this 22 cycle. After you sell off a lot here and a 23 lot there and people move into the area and 24 they don't like the idea of manure being 25 spread or they're uncomfortable about some of 1 the other farm activities which take place, 2 eventually it's unprofitable and unpleasant 3 for the farmers to even stay in business. 4 Whole communities have been taken over by 5 people who've moved into what they thought was 6 an idyllic rural area and then, unhappy with 7 normal farming activities, they have forced 8 changes upon it and they make it too 9 unpleasant for farmers to continue in 10 business. Do these sound like "milkionaires" 11 to you? No, they're not. 12 But sadder still is what 13 happens when a farm is auctioned. I've seen 14 farms go for auction where the net value by 15 the local assessor was, in fact, well over a 16 million dollars. Not a half a mile from my own 17 farm, I watched a farm go for auction less 18 than a year ago. It had been appraised at over 19 a million dollars, and when it was sold in 20 small parcels to people who were going to 21 build homes on it, the final total was less 22 than $300,000. 23 Who benefits when that type of 24 scenario unfolds? They're not "milkionaires". 25 It is not a milk tax. 1 Another myth. Downstate milk 2 prices will go up beyond the $3 mark and never 3 come down. I've seen this reprinted a couple 4 of different ways. Well, here are the facts 5 and I'm going to -- I'm going to just read 6 some of the testimony that was given yesterday 7 at a New York City hearing that I attended in 8 the New York City Council. Robert Wellington, 9 dairy economist from AgriMark of the New 10 England, which is a prominent New England 11 cooperative, stated that while prices did rise 12 immediately following implementation of the 13 compact, competition then caused the prices to 14 fall again, so that the whole and one percent 15 fat milk are down 7 cents per gallon from the 16 high. Additionally skim milk and two percent 17 milk have declined 12 and 13 cents 18 respectively. 19 The claim that the price will 20 go up 20 percent a gallon is untrue. 20 21 percent was, in fact, the increase that 22 occurred in the first month, only the first 23 month, after the compact went into effect in 24 the Northeast, and that was because the 25 dealers decided and the retailers decided to 1 pass along the entire compact price to the 2 consumers where they could easily have 3 absorbed some of that themselves. 4 Now, the price is only up 4 5 cents a gallon for the month of February and 6 has never been as high as the 20 cents a 7 gallon increase again. 8 Another myth. The wealthiest 9 farmers will receive most of the so-called 10 "bonus payments" generated by the compact. 11 The poorest won't get enough to cover their 12 annual grocery bill. O.K. Couple of important 13 things here. Let's -- first of all, I don't 14 know of any wealthy farmers in this state 15 right now. I wish I did. If they have huge 16 amounts of wealth, it's not from the dairy 17 industry. A family with fewer than 29 cows is 18 really a hobby farm. They are not a viable 19 dairy operation. Majority of the farms, as 20 has already been explained, are in the 60- to 21 100-cow range, and they can manage with that 22 amount of cows if they're entitled -- if they 23 receive a fair price for milk. Larger farms 24 are still family farms. 25 Yesterday I was accompanied to 1 the New York City Council Consumer Affairs 2 Committee hearing on the dairy compact by 3 three farmers. I asked three farmers 4 representing different size farms to testify 5 with me so that they could refute this 6 personally. The large farmer who participated 7 was Patrick Van Lieshout. The Van Lieshout 8 family in Oneida County are five brothers and 9 a father and mother who together farm with 450 10 cows. You do the math. That's six families 11 to 450 cows, plus the hired people who work on 12 that farm. Now, does that sound like one 13 wealthy farm to you? No. It is a significant 14 disbursement of responsibilities in a 15 cooperative arrangement so that everybody can 16 make a decent standard of living provided the 17 price for milk is fair. 18 The other people who testified 19 with me were Ray Christiansen, who is a farmer 20 from Delaware County. He is also the chairman 21 of the Delaware County Board of Supervisors. 22 He has, I believe it's 60 cows. He explained 23 the implication for a family of that size and 24 why the compact price would make a difference 25 to hold his farm solvent, and the smallest 1 farmer of all, another member of the Delaware 2 County Board of Supervisors, Mr. Batcheller, 3 explained that with his fewer than 30 cows he 4 was only continuing farming because it's 5 something he has always done, always wanted to 6 do, not likely to pass on in his family but he 7 wants it to at least be viable that he can do 8 it while subsidizing with off-farm income. 9 Another myth. Publicly 10 supported feeding programs such as food 11 stamps, school lunch, hospital and day care 12 programs will pay millions annually. Well, 13 first of all, we know the prices are not going 14 to rise to the extent that has been claimed by 15 some of the detractors. Certainly they're not 16 going up over the $3 mark; they're not going 17 up even 20 cents. They're only going up that 18 four cents. 19 Secondly, the Northeast Dairy 20 Compact has held harmless both school lunch 21 programs and the WIC program. Now, I might 22 add that I think it's nice that the people who 23 are lobbying against this have expressed all 24 of this concern for day care centers and 25 senior citizen centers, and I feel that 1 concern too, but it is our obligation to look 2 for ways to offset increased costs to them of 3 all sorts. 4 We have an obligation to help 5 those programs remain viable, and I know some 6 of my other colleagues share this concern. 7 That's why we look for ways to increase 8 through salary enhancement for day care 9 providers. We look for ways to give them 10 targeted assistance to help offset the 11 increased cost of energy. There is no reason 12 why we have can't help them offset this modest 13 increase, and it will be a modest increase, in 14 the price of milk. We do that for everything 15 else. We have the good sense, the common 16 sense to recognize it is in the best interests 17 of the future of this state to do that for any 18 group that might be adversely affected; but 19 please remember that effect will be minimal, 20 will be very, very minimal, and it should not 21 in any way deter somebody from voting against 22 this. 23 Now, consider the alternative. 24 Let's consider the alternative of not doing 25 the Northeast Dairy Compact. The milk dealers 1 have enjoyed absolute market control at the 2 wholesale end. The price is regulated for 3 farmers by the federal government. It's 4 already been explained how it's set some place 5 else. The Minnesota and Wisconsin formula has 6 absolutely no bearing on what happens here in 7 New York State, but yet that is the price that 8 farmers have to accept and most dealers will 9 only pay a few pennies above that price, and 10 then at the retail level, the retail industry, 11 aside from price gouging laws which are rarely 12 enforced, can charge pretty much what it 13 wants. Those ends of this dairy industry will 14 do just fine, won't they, because after all 15 they can pass on the cost of transportation, 16 they can pass on the higher costs of doing 17 business if they have to ship milk in 18 refrigerated from some place out west. 19 It is the farmers here in New 20 York State who are forced to take a price who 21 have never had the ability to receive a higher 22 price that offsets some of the costs of doing 23 business. 24 Let's again review how the 25 compact sets that price for milk. Is it the 1 farmer setting a price? No, it is not. Who 2 sets the price. Is it government officials? 3 No, it is not. It is a federally recognized 4 compact. If allows states which are 5 contiguous in a region of the United States to 6 set a price with a combination of factors 7 included: The retail end, the wholesale end, 8 the farm end, and consumer representation. 9 Farmers comprise a distinct 10 minority of the people who sit on the compact 11 commission setting that price. In fact, there 12 are those who have said it would be better if 13 the farmers didn't sit on it at all because 14 there is just as much sympathy from the 15 consumers in New England to give them that 16 fair price. 17 What we've seen in the last 18 couple of weeks is a new low in journalism. 19 The New York Times came out with an editorial 20 that used every one of the buzz words fed to 21 them by the lobbyists for the milk dealers who 22 are fighting this. Governor Pataki would 23 "milk the poor". What a poignant statement 24 for the New York Times to make on February 25 16th, and it says Governor Pataki wants to tax 1 poor mothers, many of whom live in urban 2 ghettos so that he can subsidize his 3 supporters in upstate dairy communities. 4 I think that manages to offend 5 just about everybody in this chamber, from 6 those who don't like to hear urban areas 7 referred to as ghettos to those of us who 8 represent upstate areas and don't like to hear 9 references to what amounts to a political buy 10 off by the Governor. I don't think the 11 Governor deserves this. I don't think our 12 urban constituents deserve it, and I know our 13 farmers don't deserve it. 14 It uses the buzz word 15 "cartel". The Governor uses the sanitized 16 notion of a dairy compact to explain his 17 policy, but anyone else would call it a dairy 18 cartel that could drive up milk prices across 19 the state by -- I can't read the percentage 20 there; I guess it's ten percent, so they've 21 hedged their bets a little bit. The only 22 cartel we're talking about here, my friends, 23 are the milk dealers, the milk dealers who 24 have rallied and lobbied to fight this with a 25 million dollar war chest in Washington, and 1 I'll get to that in a minute. It is not the 2 farmers who are engaged in a cartel. 3 If the bill passes, milk prices 4 could rise from about 2.55 a gallon to about 5 2.75 a gallon. There is no worse tax -- again 6 misuse of the word "tax" -- for poor families 7 than a tax on food, and then it closes with 8 saying the same upstate Republicans who 9 ridicule welfare that goes to poor families in 10 New York City appear unwilling to stomach the 11 use of that term when it applies to their 12 constituents. 13 I am sick to my heart about 14 that. I am an upstate Democrat, not an 15 upstate Republican, but I know the people in 16 my district grieve at the use of this 17 language. We do not ridicule anybody for 18 welfare, and we do not want people to think 19 that allowing farmers of this state to have a 20 fair price for the milk they produce is 21 welfare either. Let's try to have more 22 sensitivity, New York Times, in addressing 23 this in the future. 24 In contrast, let me read from 25 the Boston Globe an editorial in a state that 1 has been receiving the compact price now since 2 last summer: Keeping Dairy Farms Afloat, 3 Tuesday, February 10. 4 "Massachusetts dairy farmers 5 who often lead precarious existences, face 6 another challenge from those who would undo a 7 regional compact that provides enough price 8 stability to keep them going despite rising 9 costs. The New England Interstate Dairy 10 Compact set up to guarantee a minimum price of 11 $1.46 a gallon to farmers deserves continuing 12 support from the Legislature and Acting 13 Governor Sallucci. Were the interests of dairy 14 farmers alone at stake, a case might be made 15 for forcing them to accept competition from 16 farmers elsewhere, but other factors make the 17 survival of dairy farmers here and in other 18 New England states desirable despite the 19 slightly higher cost for consumers. 20 "Dairy farms have been in 21 decline for years. In Massachusetts there are 22 about 320 operating on 130,000 acres of 23 prime agricultural land that is valuable as 24 open space in addition to producing about 20 25 percent of the milk consumed in the state. 1 Gray Healy, the state's Commissioner of 2 Agriculture, estimates that perhaps 50,000 of 3 those acres would fall out of agricultural use 4 were dairy farming to collapse. That is more 5 than the amount of land that has been set 6 aside over the last 20 years under the state's 7 real estate tax program for sheltering farm 8 properties from development. 9 "Nor would consumers 10 automatically benefit from displacement of 11 local farms by cheaper operations outside of 12 New England. Any savings would partially be 13 offset by added transportation costs -- 28 14 cents per gallon from Buffalo, for example, 15 and consumers would lose access to fresher 16 milk from local sources, often on the table a 17 day after having been drawn from Massachusetts 18 herds." 19 And the Boston Globe concludes 20 by saying, "A dairy farm conducted as a small 21 business frequently by a family enhances the 22 quality of life for all New Englanders. The 23 minimal assistance needed to keep dairy farms 24 viable is a small price to pay for a large 25 return." 1 Oh, that we had an editorial 2 philosophy of that sort in some of our New 3 York City papers. But I believe it is 4 coming. 5 Yesterday a very, very 6 important hearing was held in the New York 7 City Council, and I thank Speaker Peter 8 Vallone very much for involving this -- this 9 legislator and other people in that hearing. 10 I thank the City Council member who chairs the 11 Consumer Affairs Committee, Karen Koslowitz, 12 who presided over that hearing. She was 13 fair. She attempted to give everybody on all 14 sides of this issue a chance to be heard. 15 One of the more important 16 discussions that I had yesterday occurred 17 after I had testified. Shortly after my 18 testimony, there was a panel put together of 19 consumer groups who oppose the compact. I 20 don't remember each one of the groups by name 21 but there was a senior citizen group, there 22 was somebody from -- I think there were two 23 from day care centers. Their testimony all 24 had a very similar ring. They all used the 25 same buzz words we heard there before. Most 1 of them spoke with really limited knowledge of 2 agriculture, and they believed on face value 3 everything that they had been told by others, 4 and I spoke with some of these ladies outside 5 in the hallway on my way to the ladies' room 6 and I asked them where they received their 7 information, and they told me that it had been 8 provided to them by people from Albany, they 9 mentioned NYPIRG, which is one of the groups 10 that's in opposition and the people that work 11 with NYPIRG, they said, and I asked them if 12 they knew that the people who had provided 13 them that information were also retained as 14 lobbyists for the milk dealers, and one woman 15 looked horrified and she said, "No, I 16 certainly did not, and if that's true it's 17 disgusting." 18 Senator Patrick Leahy of 19 Vermont, serving in the United States Senate, 20 chaired the U. S. Senate Agriculture Committee 21 when the Northeast Dairy Compact was 22 implemented, and he's fighting valiantly to 23 make sure that it's going to survive even if 24 it only survives in the New England states. 25 But he's done some interesting analysis about 1 what is happening on the influence buying area 2 in Washington, and now we know how it's being 3 extended into New York. 4 On April 21st of this year, 5 Senator Leahy issued the following statement: 6 "Some larger dairy processors 7 have waged a war against the Northeast 8 Interstate Dairy Compact with little regard 9 for the facts. Apparently they do not want 10 farmers to get the prices they deserve for 11 their milk. This was expected, but it is 12 deeply disappointing that their campaign has 13 sunk to corrupting the analysis of a leading 14 consumer group, Public Voice for Food and 15 Health Policy. 16 The opponents of the dairy 17 compact have come to realize that they may 18 lose their challenge to the compact in the 19 federal court, and they have lost it, and now 20 they are going state to state in an attempt to 21 convince northeastern legislatures to withdraw 22 from the compact. This anti-compact lobbying 23 campaign is fueled by corporate money and 24 propped up by corrupted arguments. Their aim 25 is to kill the compact in the cradle before it 1 has a chance to prove its worth to hard 2 working dairy farmers and to the economics of 3 various communities in Vermont and throughout 4 our region. These large dairy processors are 5 spending considerable sums to try to convince 6 the public that the battle over the dairy 7 compact is a struggle between rich dairy 8 farmers and consumers. In fact, this is 9 really a battle between well-off dairy 10 manufacturers and struggling dairy farmers. 11 These huge dairy manufacturers cannot win over 12 the editorial boards of the New York Times or 13 the Washington Post on their own merits, but 14 if a group like Public Voice carries their 15 public relations message casting this as a 16 consumer issue, then they have a foot in the 17 door. 18 Senator Leahy did a further 19 analysis and showed a chart showing -- and he 20 states "*** the unseemly web of money and 21 promises between the dairy processors and 22 Public Voice are exposed. For example, we 23 know that between January 1995 and June 1996, 24 Public Voice accepted $41,000 from the Inter 25 national Dairy Foods Association. We do not 1 know how much IDFA has contributed to Public 2 Voice after June 1996 or how much -- or how 3 many of IDFA's corporate members have 4 individually contributed to Public Voice." 5 Also an interesting note that 6 Senator Leahy made in his statement, in June 7 1996, the senior vice-president for programs 8 at Public Voice publicly defended his 9 organization from charges that its analysis 10 was influenced by dairy corporate 11 contributions. Some time within the next six 12 weeks, the same Public Voice vice-president 13 left the organization to accept a consultant 14 job for M&R Strategic Services, a lobbying arm 15 of IDFA. 16 For a six-month period in 1996 17 IDFA paid at least $30,000 to M&R Strategic 18 Services for its lobbying effort. M&R 19 Strategic Services is referred to by Malcolm & 20 Ross, lobbyists headquartered here in Albany 21 as their research arm in Washington. 22 But not all consumer groups, 23 Public Voice and some of the others who have 24 registered their anti-compact positions here, 25 not all consumer groups are as gullible as 1 those or co-optible as those. Fortunately 2 there are a few that have taken the time to 3 truly study the issue and they believe in the 4 importance of keeping New York dairy farmers 5 viable, not only for the benefit of dairy 6 farmers in the upstate economy but for the 7 benefit of New York City consumers. 8 Just Food, 625 Broadway, New 9 York, New York, issued the following statement 10 in January: "Just Food, which is a food system 11 whose work touches on issues as seemingly 12 disparate as farm preservation, gardening, 13 social justice, nutrition education, 14 environmental stewardship and hunger 15 alleviation, can make lasting positive changes 16 in our local and regional food system. Just 17 Food has chosen to focus on collaborative 18 projects which support the nation's farmers 19 while increasing the availability of healthful 20 locally grown food to the people of New York 21 City, particularly those with little or no 22 income. We believe these goals to be mutually 23 supportive, not mutually exclusive, and enjoy 24 cultivating the ground in which innovative 25 projects can take root. 1 "Among our primary goals is to 2 enhance the viability of regional family farms 3 and to support healthy rural and urban 4 communities by promoting relationships between 5 local farmers and New York City residents. We 6 believe the Northeast Dairy Compact to be one 7 step in the right direction in fostering the 8 economic viability of New York's dairy 9 farmers. The compact will help to stabilize 10 milk prices in New York State, support the 11 rural New York communities where the dairy 12 industry is integral to economic well-being, 13 strengthen food security in our region and 14 ensure a safe and local supply of milk to New 15 York City, maintain a secure and reasonable 16 milk supply for the Women, Infants and 17 Children's program which is held harmless by 18 the compact as school lunches now will be. 19 "Just Food endorses New York 20 State's membership in the Northeast Dairy 21 Compact. It has become increasingly clear that 22 Just Food, our members and our partner 23 organizations need to help create a 24 sustainable and just food system in our 25 region. We need to support all of the farmers 1 in our state. Only with a thriving and 2 growing agricultural sector will we be able to 3 meet more of our own food needs, sustain 4 meaningful livelihoods and strong rural 5 communities as well as protecting the natural 6 resources upon which our lives depend. 7 "Allowing the dairy industry 8 to further decline in New York State will make 9 it more difficult for other farmers to make a 10 living and will surely result in our milk 11 being shipped from farther and farther away, 12 making our food supply less fresh, less 13 nutritious and less reliable." 14 I could go on with other 15 statements in support, but I think the most 16 important things to remember are the fact that 17 we have here an industry in New York State in 18 which we have always taken pride, that we have 19 taken for granted. The upstate economy pivots 20 around the dairy industry. When farmers are 21 healthy and thriving, they spend their money 22 locally. Every dairy dollar turns around six, 23 seven or eight times in a local community, but 24 when farms go down they take with them grocery 25 stores, feed stores, farm implement dealers, 1 banks, supermarkets and eventually whole 2 communities suffer the effects of the loss of 3 agriculture. 4 We don't have large corporate 5 farms in New York State. They exist in 6 California with thousands of cows. Most of 7 our farms in this state are small family 8 farms, a few like the Van Lieshouts are larger 9 family farms, but there are only eight farms 10 in New York State that are not family owned. 11 Clyde Rutherford, who is the president of 12 Dairylea and a dairy farmer himself, made that 13 statement yesterday. 14 The thing I found amazing was 15 that I immediately could identify three of 16 those eight non-family farms. One is the 17 AGWAY Research Center, one is at Morrisville 18 College, and one is at Cornell University. 19 That means there are only five so-called 20 corporate farms in New York State, not family 21 owned. 22 We are talking about the life 23 blood of our state, my friends, even though 24 most of us are far removed from it. We have 25 lost sight of what its farm families are doing 1 now. We owe it to them to keep this compact 2 in place in New England and to allow New York 3 State to enter it so that we can have a viable 4 dairy industry and a safe milk product for our 5 children and grandchildren at an affordable 6 price. 7 If we do not allow this compact 8 to be introduced in New York State, the future 9 is clear. There will be milk availability but 10 at a higher cost, and the cost will be 11 generated to the benefit of the dealers and 12 the retailers, but the farmers will be in some 13 other part of the United States. We will be 14 paying for transportation costs so that milk 15 can come from Idaho and the far west. We will 16 not be helping the farmers who are here today 17 and the farmers who come to Albany every year 18 to lobby us to continue doing what they have 19 done so well. 20 Let's not take them for 21 granted. Let's make sure that we give our 22 farmers an opportunity to farm under the 23 Northeast Dairy Compact. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Thank you, Senator Hoffmann. 1 Senator Nozzolio. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 3 Mr. President. 4 Mr. President, my colleagues, 5 my remarks will be brief and to the point as 6 is the case for most dairy farmers in this 7 state and all farmers, they focus on the 8 issue, it's hard to say a few words and make 9 their point and that's what I would like. 10 I have the honor of 11 representing a number of large dairy counties, 12 if not the largest dairy producing county in 13 the state, which I believe is Cayuga County, 14 and I've never seen such a group of 15 hard-working people in any walk of life than 16 those who engage in farming but particularly 17 the trials, the tribulations, the challenges 18 of dairy farming. 19 Senator Kuhl and Senator Wright 20 very eloquently stated the plight of our dairy 21 farmers in New York. Those reasons enough 22 would be reasons to vote for this measure, but 23 frankly beyond saving the dairy industry of 24 this state, a noble purpose, the essence of 25 this measures saves consumers of this state, 1 saves them dollars and ensures that a fresh 2 product will always be available to them. 3 That's the purpose of this 4 bill. That's the essence of this bill and all 5 the nuances about processors and contributions 6 and all the issues that can -- somehow 7 certainly are relevant but somehow cloud the 8 essence of what we're trying to do. The 9 essence of what we're trying to do is ensure a 10 fresh supply of a fresh commodity for the 11 consumers of this state. 12 That's what this bill does. It 13 gives no special treatment. It provides no 14 special favors. Frankly, it was designed - 15 and I applaud its sponsor, Senator Kuhl. It 16 was designed to ensure that there is 17 continuation of a production of a commodity 18 that is essential to every household in this 19 state. That's why we are supporting this 20 measure. That's the essence of the measure 21 and that's why it deserves support not just 22 from those who wish to support the dairy 23 farmers, not just those from upstate New York 24 but from every corner of this state, in every 25 street, in every municipality in New York 1 should be supporting this measure for that 2 reason. 3 Mr. President, my hat's off to 4 the men and women who are dairy farmers. We 5 applaud their work, applaud what they do, but 6 most important, this measure protects the 7 consumers of this state and that's why I urge 8 its passage. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Thank you, Senator Nozzolio. 11 Senator Dollinger. 12 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Would the 13 sponsor yield to just a couple of questions? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator Kuhl, do you yield? 16 SENATOR KUHL: Certainly. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 He yields, Senator. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through 20 you, Mr. President. What is the effect or 21 what happens if milk -- if we join the compact 22 and milk is imported from either Pennsylvania 23 or Ontario or Quebec, what happens to the 24 price of that milk? 25 SENATOR KUHL: How imported, 1 sir? Explain what you're talking about when 2 you're referring to importing. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, we 4 enter into the compact which allows the price 5 -- the sale price for the milk to be 6 established by the compact board, correct? 7 That would apply to milk produced in New York 8 State. That's -- the concern, as I understand 9 it, is to keep production constant in New York 10 State. What about if someone in Pennsylvania 11 sold milk to a New York producer at let's say 12 $2 less per hundredweight? 13 SENATOR KUHL: Watch the 14 language you use, Senator. Producer is 15 generally referred to as a farmer. Processor 16 is, I think, what you mean to say. 17 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Processor. 18 You're correct. Again, you understand my lack 19 of familiarity with some of the terms here. 20 Suppose it's sold to the processor at a 21 smaller price, a reduced price. What's the 22 effect? Wouldn't this increase -- doesn't 23 this give an incentive for processors to 24 import milk from Ontario, Quebec, 25 Pennsylvania, Maryland, Ohio? 1 SENATOR KUHL: That scenario 2 that you've set up, Senator, would not 3 happen. There's a requirement that milk sale 4 -- sold to a processor in New York be the 5 same kind of prices as required in the compact 6 for milk produced in the state and sold to a 7 processor. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 9 through you, Mr. President. So in essence if 10 we join this compact, we're actually setting 11 the price not only of milk produced in New 12 York State but milk produced outside New York 13 State which is sold to processors inside. 14 SENATOR KUHL: That scenario is 15 happening right now, as a matter of fact. 16 There are six -- we've heard there are six 17 states that are currently consisting of the 18 compact. We have roughly 1200 New York 19 farmers who are selling into the -- or 20 processing in those states and they are 21 receiving the compact price. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is the 23 compact price currently higher than the price 24 in New York State? Again through you, Mr. 25 President. 1 SENATOR KUHL: The compact 2 price currently is $16.94 and that will be the 3 price for the foreseeable future. The price 4 in New York right now is somewhere around 5 $14.90, in that area. So it's higher than 6 what is currently the price being paid to 7 other farmers in New York. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 9 through you, Mr. President. So what you're 10 telling me is the markets work in such a 11 fashion now that the milk in New York State, 12 when it's sold in the compact, makes more 13 money for the farmer, is that correct, when 14 it's sold in the Northeast Compact currently. 15 SENATOR KUHL: That's correct. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 17 Again through you, Mr. President, if Senator 18 Kuhl will continue to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Kuhl, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 22 to, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 The Senator is happy to continue to yield. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: What will 1 the effect of joining the compact be on the 2 production of New York State from the point of 3 view of its quantity? Would you expect it 4 would go up or go down? 5 SENATOR KUHL: Unpredictable, 6 see, because you just don't know what's going 7 to happen. What we're seeing right now is 8 there is a slight percentage increase in 9 various parts of the Northeast while in New 10 York we've seen a decrease. What that's 11 related to, whether it's tied to the compact 12 or not, I think is indiscernible. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 14 through you, Mr. President. Senator Kuhl, 15 isn't it fair to say that the one ingredient, 16 the most important ingredient in the price of 17 milk, whether it be fluid milk or any other 18 kind of milk, is the scarcity of its 19 production? 20 SENATOR KUHL: I don't know as 21 you can generalize the system the way it's set 22 up that way, Senator. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 24 through you, Mr. President. Don't you think 25 under those old Adam Smith theories that if 1 there was a smaller supply, it would drive the 2 price up, supply and demand being sort of the 3 modicum that now controls our markets, makes 4 all of our markets work? 5 SENATOR KUHL: What you have 6 here is a system that's set up that's been in 7 place for a number of years. It's been 8 altered by federal law in a couple of cases 9 the past couple of years and it's convoluted 10 the normal supply and demand kind of concept. 11 So you really can't generalize. Plus you're 12 dealing with different classes of milk in this 13 particular area. 14 What we're talking about -- and 15 this compact only applies to what we refer to 16 as fluid milk or Class 1 milk. We're not 17 talking about milk that's used in the 18 production of cheese or whatever else it may 19 be. So when you start to generalize like 20 you're attempting to do in asking questions, I 21 can't be specific in the answers because to 22 say one thing would be, I think leading you to 23 believe something or maybe leading you to a 24 response that isn't necessarily true. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 1 through you, Mr. President, just one other - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 If the Senator continues to yield. 4 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 5 to. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 He's happy to. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Wouldn't it 9 be fair to say, Senator, if milk production 10 overall went down in this state, that the 11 price would go up because there would be - 12 assuming constant demand that if you reduce 13 the supply, you'll increase the price? 14 Wouldn't you agree with that scenario? 15 SENATOR KUHL: No, I wouldn't, 16 because that's exactly what has not happened. 17 The price -- or the supply of milk over this 18 last year has decreased I'm told about 2.9 19 percent and what has happened to the price of 20 milk? It has not gone down, has it? It's 21 gone up, if anything, as far as the retail 22 level but the price -- if you talk about a 23 diminishment of the availability of milk in 24 this state, it has decreased but the price to 25 farmers has, in fact, gone down. So you can't 1 generalize, is what I'm saying to you because 2 it's a difficult market to just analyze, 3 supply -- normal supply and demand economics. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Again 5 through you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Kuhl, do you continue to yield? 8 Excuse me, Senator. Do you continue to yield, 9 Senator? 10 SENATOR KUHL: I would be happy 11 to. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 He's happy to. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Wouldn't it 15 be safe to assume, Senator, that this market 16 like every other market will respond the way 17 markets do when supply goes down, assuming 18 constant demand, production would go up and 19 vice versa, when production is up, demand is 20 constant, that supply - 21 SENATOR KUHL: You and I as 22 students of economics might rationalize and 23 realize that that should normally happen, 24 Senator, but I think what you'll find is 25 experience -- when you look at actual 1 experience, the factual circumstances in 2 various spots throughout the compact and the 3 non-compact region, that that's not true. You 4 cannot talk in generalities about this issue. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 6 Thank you very much. Thank you very much, 7 Senator Kuhl. 8 I rise today to speak against 9 this bill, and I do so with something of a 10 heavy - 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Senator Dollinger, on the bill. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. Thank 14 you, Mr. President. 15 I think unfortunately I'm going 16 to use a personal dramatization of why I think 17 there's a problem and I hope everybody can see 18 it. 19 I have a glass in my hand. I 20 had two glasses of whole milk today. I'm the 21 only one in this chamber who drinks whole 22 milk. My wife -- my wife -- I drink it in 23 this chamber. My wife won't let me drink 24 whole milk at home. I drink one percent or 25 two percent, but I would suggest to you that 1 this little demonstration, if you look around 2 the room, look what's on top of everybody's 3 desk, juice, coffee, beverages, mostly Diet 4 Pepsi, look what's on the table. 5 The problem is, at least from 6 my point of view, what you have today is 7 unfortunately the market demand for milk has 8 gone down. The competition from other forms 9 of beverages has gone up and as a consequence, 10 we now are faced with a bill that I think 11 Senator Nozzolio aptly described, it's a bill 12 designed to keep the production constant. 13 It's designed to keep production up even 14 though based on what I can tell the world of 15 supply and demand, a very harsh world in which 16 we live, a world that creates markets and 17 takes them away, has had the effect of 18 reducing the consumption and the production 19 and the need for milk, and as a consequence, 20 what this bill is designed to do is something 21 that, quite frankly, I find so unlike 22 Republicans to do, and that is to say to a 23 marketplace, which many of us strongly 24 support, the importance of markets, that 25 markets can correct themselves, that they will 1 change people's behaviors, that they will work 2 when there is a decrease in supply and an 3 increase in price, what happens? Supply will 4 increase because it is a favorable price, and 5 I would suggest that in the dairy markets, 6 what we've done is tinkered with the market. 7 Perhaps Senator Kuhl is correct that we have 8 tinkered with this market too much but it 9 seems to me the time to tinker with it is now 10 gone. 11 What we need to do is look at 12 the marketplace and figure what the 13 marketplace is all about and what's the role 14 of government in that marketplace. 15 I'd call the attention of 16 everyone in this chamber to a debate that we 17 had last year in which the tables were 18 completely flipped in this case. You remember 19 the Democrats on this side of the aisle were 20 arguing for rent control, that form of 21 government intervention in the marketplace 22 that affected the fair market price of housing 23 in New York City and the Democrats on this 24 side of the aisle generally said, we support 25 the concept of rent control. We support the 1 government's entry into the marketplace to 2 affect the market-driven forces that make 3 apartments available in New York City. We 4 influence the market on its supply and 5 demand. 6 Now today we have the 7 Republicans in this chamber doing exactly the 8 same thing, saying we have to go back into the 9 milk marketplace to protect the production of 10 milk in this state. Recognize that there is 11 one significant difference between those two 12 debates. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Excuse me, Senator. Can we have some order in 15 the chamber, please. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: A 17 philosophical difference that is important to 18 understand the different position of at least 19 this Democrat on those two issues. 20 In rent control, we had one 21 important provision and it said that if the 22 production of rental housing reaches a point 23 where the vacancy rate in New York City is 24 five percent, rent control disappears. If we 25 overproduce housing in New York City, the 1 system of government intervention in the 2 marketplace evaporates. 3 In this debate, there is no 4 such provision. There's nothing that 5 restricts increased production. In fact, 6 there's a guaranteed price that would be paid 7 regardless of how the markets respond. 8 I would suggest to those who 9 suggest they are fiscal conservatives that a 10 fiscal conservative would say, I know that the 11 market can be almost punitive at times but 12 nonetheless if we let the markets work, the 13 markets will find the balance that society and 14 consumers drive them to. 15 I would suggest in closing, Mr. 16 President, that the problem here is not 17 efficiency of production. These farmers are 18 the most efficient dairy farmers in the 19 world. It's not an issue of production to 20 increase the demand for milk, to get a higher 21 price for milk. It's all about those little 22 mustaches that you see painted on sports 23 stars. It's all about competition with the 24 Pepsi generation. It's all about juices and 25 people using those as other forms of 1 beverage. It's about bottled water. It's 2 about two percent milk. It's about the fat 3 scare in whole milk. I still love the 4 delicious taste. I think it's the 5 best-tasting stuff made, but I suggest to you 6 that the solution to the problem for dairy 7 farmers in this state is not to further tinker 8 with the markets and guarantee continued 9 production when what we ought to be doing in 10 government is increasing the marketing, 11 increasing the size of the market so you have 12 a better market to sell to. 13 I would also suggest that the 14 proper role of government is to create 15 incentives to give further tax relief, to give 16 regulatory reform. Those are things that will 17 allow you to be more competitive in the 18 marketplace, but it's only by creating greater 19 demand that we will solve the problem of New 20 York's dairy farms. The compact which 21 reduces, which guarantees production without 22 increasing demand is shortsighted, in my 23 judgment. It will not produce the long-term 24 benefit that the farmers and dairy farmers in 25 this state need. 1 I would suggest to you that you 2 come to the floor and market among my 3 colleagues. That's how you can make a greater 4 market for milk, and I suggest that if that's 5 the way to solve the problem, not enter into 6 the market, ask government to intervene in the 7 marketplace and do something that government 8 has proven itself historically very bad at 9 doing, which is trying to influence the price 10 the consumers and individuals pay for 11 products, it's a bad idea. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Thank you, Senator. 14 Senator Marchi. 15 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 16 we've assisted at a very fine discussion of an 17 issue that is very sensitive. We know that 18 because it -- there is the suggestion that it 19 may be more costly to people, but we have to 20 take a solid, reasoned position on the 21 preservation of an important economic sector 22 of our economy in this state where a few 23 thousand people are -- at the price of 24 excruciating effort on their part to deliver a 25 good product to the public is penalized over 1 the capricious and cavalier habit of -- and I 2 think you made the argument very eloquently. 3 Normally it applies, Senator Dollinger -- the 4 capricious exercise of rogue states which can 5 dump and which can destabilize almost any 6 transient form of commerce. 7 We cannot ship an apartment 8 into New York City to encourage a reversal, an 9 augmentation of housing unless -- unless we 10 create the premises for their construction, 11 but not to do this is really to turn a deaf 12 ear, and I mean this with no disparaging 13 innuendo on anyone's statement here, because I 14 think every statement that's been presented 15 has been thoughtful and on the merits, but we 16 cannot take this road. 17 I remember in 19... well, the 18 mid-'70s when we had the City crisis and there 19 was a question of the City fiscal crisis and 20 the involvement of the upstate members who 21 ostensibly represented a greater sensitivity 22 towards perhaps parochial concerns that might 23 rear their ugly head in primaries and what 24 else, suggested that there's some distance 25 that separates us from the reality that was 1 taking place in the city of New York. There 2 are not very many members here who were 3 present at that time, I believe Senator 4 Stafford and Senator Stavisky. I know that on 5 the other side of the aisle they were solid as 6 they should have been and there were a 7 sufficient number on our side to give that the 8 emphasis and the reinforcement that was needed 9 in Congress and the house -- and the White 10 House over the urgency of our problem. So we 11 presented a united front in this state and we 12 carried the day and those who were parties to 13 it did not see the state lose a nickel and the 14 federal government by coming in on guarantees 15 -- and I can tell you there were a few of us 16 that went down -- Senator Ohrenstein and 17 myself were constantly before congressional 18 committees and with the White House, Secretary 19 Blumenthal and others, that filled in that 20 period, they were able to get a small 21 percentage of the fact that all these bonds 22 were marketed and it accrued income to the 23 federal government in terms of one percent. 24 So I believe that if we turn a 25 deaf ear here -- and there may be some who 1 have what they feel are meritorious reasons, 2 but we cannot be in conflict with ourselves. 3 If we say no to this community of hard workers 4 who ask nothing but to go ahead and keep 5 working hard to turn out a decent product, who 6 are not as well organized as some of your 7 thoughtful speakers on both sides of the aisle 8 have pointed out, it is up for us to -- it is 9 up to us to seize this opportunity and to 10 restore a sense of balance here. 11 This is not forever. The track 12 that we're traveling on here will come to an 13 end at some point and then the forces of a 14 free and unfettered economy can take over, but 15 we cannot wait for heavy casualties. 16 I don't believe that New York 17 State can afford a heavy casualty and the 18 continuing hemorrhage that is now taking place 19 in that sector. We don't want to do that. 20 I'm sure that no one here would do it out of 21 their meanness or their hard characters and 22 they appeal to other considerations, but these 23 people are crying for help and we should be 24 responsive in every way conceivable, and 25 Senator Kuhl has worked out, I think in 1 cooperation with many, a workable solution 2 that will not materially affect the economics 3 of this state except to stabilize it and at 4 the same time provide a bridging mechanism so 5 that we don't experience further losses. 6 We can't afford this, Mr. 7 President. We can't afford this 8 economically. We can't afford it in terms of 9 human effort which is endless. We cannot 10 afford it in the crushed dreams of people who 11 are struggling hard. 12 The suggestion was made perhaps 13 that they might borrow against operating 14 expenses. You can't borrow against -- you 15 might do it for a capital improvement, but to 16 do it with operating expenses to tide you to 17 where? The spiral is all downhill, and let us 18 not turn a deaf ear. 19 I remember all too well, all 20 too well when we had that crisis in the city 21 of New York, and I appreciated the fact that 22 there were members on this side of the aisle, 23 and as I believe that there are on that side 24 of the aisle, who were willing to come to the 25 assistance of the City and we won and carried 1 the day. 2 If we deliver a strong message 3 here in this house, it will give it the 4 reinforcement and the power and the propulsion 5 to go out and also encourage our brothers and 6 sisters down the corridor in the Assembly and 7 the Governor, of course, is properly - 8 properly supporting this legislation. 9 So I suggest, Mr. President, 10 that we behave as one state. We're 18 million 11 people. We're 18 million people who do not 12 deplore the -- who, perhaps because of the 13 minutiae of political considerations might be 14 dictated -- and I know this is not going to 15 happen here. I know that you're going to take 16 a vote and make a vote on the subject of your 17 conscience, but weigh these elements very 18 carefully, human compassion, intelligent 19 reaction to people who work hard. You know, 20 we don't put those kind of hours in most of 21 the other sections of the state and other 22 sectors of our economy and yet they're working 23 under these punishing conditions. 24 I believe it was Senator Wright 25 who compared on a case by case, sector by 1 sector increase in expenses and here we've 2 been grinding them down to dust. Let us 3 preserve what we have and enrich it and bring 4 greater numbers to it as are needed but let us 5 not take the heart and the efforts and say 6 that they're all for naught because we have 7 the power here in delivering a strong 8 bipartisan support to this legislation that we 9 will be furthering the interests of people who 10 are in genuine distress and at the same time, 11 I think make a valuable contribution to the 12 market stability of this state. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Thank you, Senator Marchi. 15 Senator Cook. 16 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 17 Senator Dollinger's no longer here, but I 18 think one of the points that needs to be made 19 is that one of the quandaries in the dairy - 20 in the dairy marketing business is that while 21 we're marketing on a regional basis, the price 22 is impacted by things that happen outside the 23 region. That's why the whole question of 24 supply and demand as it exists within the 25 region doesn't impact the price as it 1 theoretically ought to within the region and 2 it's all kind of a result of some decisions 3 that were made years ago but nevertheless 4 that's the situation with which we're 5 confronted, but the other thing I really 6 wanted to address was that his parallel 7 between rent control and the dairy industry, 8 because he said that we had switched sides on 9 this issue but, in fact, we had not, because 10 at that time some of us were arguing that the 11 very reason there was a shortage of rental 12 space was that it was impossible for persons 13 who wanted to provide rental properties to 14 make a profit on them, so they weren't 15 building them, and we're saying the same thing 16 about milk. 17 The present situation is making 18 it impossible for those persons who provide 19 milk to make a living at it, and what is going 20 to happen at some point -- and this is not 21 just a New York problem; it is a national 22 problem -- that, in fact, when the law of 23 supply and demand nationwide does catch up 24 with us, that 20 cents a gallon that some 25 people are talking about that milk is going up 1 will be a very, very small amount of what it 2 will go up because once these handlers get the 3 monopolies nationwide, there will be no limit 4 on how high the price can go, and I think that 5 that is something that we really ought to 6 recognize, that when you don't keep what you 7 have, that you buy what you don't have and 8 which is in the future going to be a real 9 problem for all of us, but I just wanted to 10 speak briefly about something more 11 generalized, and I think everyone has talked 12 about the plight of the individual farmer and 13 a lot of the facts that relate to this case 14 and all of those are important and I concur 15 with them, but I'm concerned that 40 out of 16 our 62 counties in New York State are really 17 dependent, the economies in those counties are 18 really dependent upon agriculture. Now, that 19 may not show up in the labor statistics, but 20 if you look at the amount of money, of cash 21 turnover that occurs in those counties, you 22 see that it is the cash that flows through the 23 agricultural industry in those communities 24 that makes the economy function. It makes it 25 possible for people to work in the stores. 1 It, in fact, makes it possible for them to 2 provide the school systems that hires the 3 teachers, that does all of the things that 4 make communities function. 5 Beyond that, we have heard 6 through the years and we've had a lot of good 7 discussions about the problems of the inner 8 city and time and time again we've heard 9 people say that one of the problems in the 10 inner city is the instability of the 11 community, that is, that people don't feel an 12 investment in the community. When large 13 numbers of them have to rely upon public 14 assistance, they don't feel the same 15 identification with the community that other 16 people do and people have said over and over, 17 if we only could provide jobs for these people 18 so that they felt that they were investing in 19 their community, then they would feel that 20 identification and it would solve a lot of the 21 sociological problems we have as well as the 22 economic problems of our inner city. 23 Well, what we are pleading with 24 you is don't transfer that problem to the 25 rural areas. Don't put these people who 1 provide the economic base for these 40 2 counties in a situation where large numbers of 3 them may, in fact, have no alternative except 4 to seek public assistance, and the problem for 5 the economy of those communities is just 6 multiplied. If you can imagine all of a 7 sudden ten percent of the farms in a 8 particular county going bankrupt, throwing 9 onto the market thousands upon thousands of 10 acres of land that have to be sold at some 11 kind of public auction for whatever amounts 12 they would bring, of livestock that will have 13 no markets -- in fact, we have situations 14 today where it literally costs people more to 15 send an animal to the market than they get out 16 of it when it's sold, and that would be 17 multiplied if a whole lot of farmers suddenly 18 are thrown into bankruptcy because the animals 19 would bring no price and it would depress that 20 market further, and as far as the other assets 21 of the farm, the machinery, that asset is just 22 about gone anyway because farmers have not 23 been able to buy machinery for a number of 24 years and they have pretty well depreciated 25 all of the value that was in that machinery 1 that they already owned, and if you think I am 2 drawing a picture that is ridiculous, I 3 suggest that you talk to the banking 4 communities in the rural counties, in these 40 5 counties to which I refer. 6 There are literally that many 7 and, in fact, more distressed farmers out 8 there who are eating away their own assets. 9 Year by year they are taking the fixed assets 10 that they have in their property and in their 11 animals and are gradually eroding away at the 12 very assets that they own in order to stay in 13 business and provide milk for the rest of the 14 people in this state and at some point the 15 banking institutions are going to be forced to 16 move against these farmers who are not being 17 able to keep up with their payments and we are 18 going to see thrown into the economy of this 19 state a large, large number of very, very 20 distressed bankruptcies where people were 21 getting back pennies and dimes on the dollars 22 that are owed to them by people in 23 agriculture. 24 How much less is it going to 25 cost us as a state to have a dairy compact 1 where we may provide that small margin by 2 which this essential element of the economy of 3 these 40 counties in upstate New York can 4 continue to be what they have been and to 5 provide, yes, a bridge, because it does not 6 last forever, but to provide a bridge so that 7 the strength which has been the state of New 8 York, with all its diversity, with its great 9 urban centers, but also its great 10 agricultural/rural areas, so that that 11 diversity continues strong into the future. 12 I think it's imperative on us, 13 all of us who love this state, to take that 14 approach with this issue. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Thank you, Senator Cook. 17 Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 I'll be brief, but Senator 21 Marchi, the conscience of the Senate, 46 years 22 in the Senate, boy, you said it all, and I'll 23 tell you, the last hard-working people in our 24 society is the farmer. 25 You know, if this state, if 1 this Legislature has been the most socially 2 conscious Legislature and state in the nation, 3 I'll tell you very sincerely, the New York 4 State dairy farmer desperately needs help, and 5 if I have an admiration for many of you on the 6 other side of the aisle, it's because of your 7 consciousness for the poor, for the needy and 8 I'll tell you, this is a case that really 9 needs your vote. 10 You know, let me say something 11 else. For those of you that might be 12 concerned that school children or the poor or 13 women and children may not get milk or be - 14 if we can't do something about that if that 15 comes about, we can't do anything, and I'll 16 tell you what. The Northeast Dairy Compact 17 has been a success and, Senator Kuhl, I don't 18 see a rise -- the price of milk rising. I see 19 the supply being stable. We are not a state 20 of corporate dairy farms. They are small 21 family dairy farms almost exclusively. 22 Senator Wright said it all and, 23 you know, I think if there's any issue that's 24 come before this house where you should vote 25 your conscience and do what is right 1 regardless of how you feel about the New York 2 Times editorial or whatever it might be, it's 3 to vote on behalf of these dairy farmers. 4 Let me just say this in 5 closing. This is a bill that is desperately 6 needed. There's nothing that can be said 7 about this compact that is going to hurt 8 anyone except to save an industry, and we 9 really need to get out and support this bill, 10 and I ask for everybody to stand up and be 11 counted in the affirmative on this one. 12 We have supported you and I go 13 back, Senator Marchi, when New York City was 14 in trouble and Senator Anderson in this house 15 stood tall on that issue. Well, I'll tell 16 you, a great number of people in this state 17 are suffering and they are on the verge of 18 disaster, and this is the only answer that I 19 see that may help them through this terrible 20 -- these terrible times, and I urge you to 21 vote yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Thank you, Senator Farley. 24 The Chair recognizes Senator 25 Meier. 1 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I say this with love and 4 affection for my colleague, Senator 5 Dollinger. Ordinarily I would be chagrined 6 for being lectured about how the free market 7 works, particularly a conservative 8 Republican. 9 The only problem, Senator, is 10 there isn't a free market in milk and there 11 hasn't been one in this country in the memory 12 of anyone in this chamber. So while we're 13 talking about honoring great Republican 14 principles, let me pose another one from the 15 greatest Republican of this century, Ronald 16 Reagan: Never, never unilaterally disarm. 17 Now, just let me say this 18 quickly because that's the way Senator 19 Nozzolio said the farmers who I represent 20 talk. Even more specifically, those farmers 21 believe that something is much better well 22 done than well said. The farmers who I 23 represent look at it this way. They have 24 already made a compact with the rest of us in 25 this state. Roughly one percent of the people 1 who live in this state feed the rest of us and 2 to get that done they rise before dawn. They 3 work until after sunset. They work in all 4 kinds of unimaginable weather and they don't 5 know such a thing as a vacation or a holiday. 6 They get the job done and they need us and 7 they nourish our families and in exchange for 8 that, for our end of the compact, all the rest 9 of us, they ask not that they receive wealth 10 from their labor but a living. They ask for a 11 fair and reasonable price. They ask that we 12 honor their labor with dignity. They ask that 13 we live up to our end of the compact they've 14 made with us to sustain life in this state, 15 and I would just make one final point. 16 Regardless of whether you have one farmer, 17 regardless of whether you have one or no dairy 18 cows in your district, each and every one of 19 us represent people who from time to time like 20 to eat. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Thank you, Senator Meier. 24 The Chair recognizes Senator 25 Libous. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Mr. 2 President. 3 I too rise to support Senator 4 Kuhl's efforts in passing this legislation 5 today and, Mr. President, I, like many of my 6 colleagues, have had the honor and privilege 7 of visiting a number of the dairy farms in my 8 district and I know that a number of those 9 folks have visited today and talked to me 10 about their concern and the importance of this 11 compact. 12 I have pushed for this and 13 discussed this legislation for a number of 14 years and as I've said before, it becomes a 15 very, very difficult position for me because I 16 believe it's the right thing to do but at the 17 same time I have a major milk company in my 18 district who has some concern about this 19 legislation, who employs people, who is a good 20 business, pays their taxes, does a number of 21 very positive things for our community but at 22 the same time I have to look beyond that. I 23 have to look at what's needed for not only my 24 constituents and the constituents of this 25 state but what we need to do to help our dairy 1 farmers. 2 So as my colleagues have said, 3 if we do not pass this legislation today, what 4 will happen is for those of you who are 5 concerned about the increased cost of milk, if 6 you do nothing, you will see increases because 7 you will see large companies from out west and 8 others moving their product in at a very high 9 expense to New York State. 10 What I would like to do, Mr. 11 President, is just mention a couple of things 12 in closing in stating how strongly I support 13 this. To my colleagues today who might be 14 considering voting against this, I just want 15 to share something with you. Several months 16 ago we had a disaster in the North Country of 17 New York State and during that disaster men, 18 women and children from all over this state, 19 from Long Island, from New York City, from 20 upstate communities, from the Southern Tier 21 immediately asked, What can we do to help in 22 this devastation? How can we help our friends 23 and neighbors, our colleagues, our citizens of 24 New York State and nobody worried about how 25 much it was going to cost. They came up in 1 bus loads from the City, from the Island, from 2 Westchester County, from all over the state 3 because they knew that they had friends, New 4 Yorkers in need. 5 My friends, I just want to 6 share with you, we have New York farmers who 7 are in need today, and I ask that you share 8 with us as your constituents did when the 9 people of the North Country had a need and 10 they didn't ask why or how much. They just 11 showed up. They helped. They sent food. 12 They spent their time. They spent their 13 money. 14 The dairy farming industry of 15 this state is in desperate need of this 16 legislation. I ask you to join with us who 17 support it, consider it as my colleagues have 18 talked about the issues and ask you to join as 19 your constituents did when they aided other 20 New Yorkers who were in need. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Thank you, Senator Libous. 23 Senator Gentile. 24 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. 25 President, I believe there is an amendment at 1 the desk. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 3 amendment is at the desk, yes. 4 SENATOR GENTILE: I would ask 5 that you waive the reading and allow me to 6 explain it. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Senator Gentile. 9 SENATOR GENTILE: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 First of all, let me also say 12 that I admire the concerns of my colleagues 13 from both sides of the aisle as to the 14 concerns and problems that are faced by the 15 milk producers, and certainly I too share in 16 that concern. Indeed, in times other than 17 today I have supported legislation that has 18 helped our agricultural community. 19 However, on this compact and 20 this amendment that I am now putting before 21 you, I have a concern as the ranking Minority 22 member on consumer protection that there are 23 certain groups that will be impacted and have 24 not gotten the full hearing in this chamber 25 should this compact become law, and this 1 amendment seeks to address those groups and 2 seeks to exempt those groups from this compact 3 should this compact pass and become law, and 4 these groups would be exempt primarily because 5 of the age or the nature of the people they 6 serve. Those types of people or groups that 7 would be most hard hit with milk price 8 increases as a result of our action here 9 today, and that hardship would be felt most 10 significantly by low income families, by 11 senior citizens, by school lunch programs and 12 by programs that serve children. Those types 13 of programs and those types of constituents 14 that we all have in every part of this state, 15 every one of our constituents, we can count 16 and point to those programs and those types of 17 people in our districts. 18 So what this amendment seeks to 19 do is to identify essential programs and 20 exempt those programs from the -- from this 21 compact and specifically the programs that are 22 listed in this amendment are day care 23 programs. In addition to the traditional 24 preschool age programs, we also have listed 25 day care programs that serve children under 1 the age of 14 whether that program be before 2 or after the school day, because of the age 3 group and the type of programs, milk is served 4 to that age group on a daily basis and the 5 cost to those day care programs, should this 6 compact become law, will increase 7 significantly. 8 We also list in the amendment 9 public school districts who purchase milk for 10 school lunch programs as we all know. In New 11 York City alone, there are a million school 12 students in the city of New York. The city of 13 New York estimates that the school system - 14 it would cost the school system $2.9 million 15 more per year for the school milk program 16 should this compact pass. 17 Also, I list non-profit private 18 schools for the same reasons and for the same 19 cost impact it will have on milk prices. 20 Overnight camps for serving 21 children, they too would be affected by the 22 increased cost of milk in this state and, of 23 course, the senior citizen centers. All of us 24 have them in our district and most of them 25 more times than not are operating on a 1 shoestring budget. I've seen this over and 2 over again. 3 In New York City alone, we have 4 335 senior centers throughout the City and 5 additionally we have many, many more Meals on 6 Wheels programs all that purchase milk, that 7 use milk on a regular, consistent daily 8 basis. Those types of centers and those 9 individuals will be impacted severely by the 10 -- this compact. New York City alone has 11 200,000 elderly people 65 years or older below 12 the poverty line and we have 100,000 more that 13 are at or near that poverty line. 14 So this is a fairness issue for 15 those particular groups where even a small 16 change in the price of milk will have an 17 adverse impact, whether it be a young group, a 18 senior citizen group or a group that serves 19 children, teenagers. Those types of increases 20 will have an adverse impact in this state on 21 those constituencies. 22 So to be fair and I ask and 23 Senator Farley, I think mentioned that maybe 24 we could do something for these people. Yes, 25 we can do something for these people and it's 1 listed right here in this amendment. 2 So to be fair, if this compact 3 passes, we need to consider these groups and 4 to consider them in part of this by amending 5 this compact, by passing this amendment. 6 So I urge my colleagues on both 7 sides whether pro -- whether they've spoken on 8 either side of this issue, that this amendment 9 should be considered passed as part of this 10 bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Senator Kuhl, on the amendment. 13 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 14 President. If I might be heard for just a 15 moment on the amendment. It's -- Senator 16 Gentile, I don't think as complex an issue as 17 this is, I don't think that you fully 18 understand the nature of your amendment, what 19 it does. 20 There is a provision in any 21 kind of a compact adoption that the language 22 adopted by each state be exactly the same and 23 identical. What you're proposing to do is to 24 change the language under the federal 25 provisions of the compact that would alter and 1 make it impossible for New York to join the 2 compact. So what you're essentially doing is 3 not -- while you may be voicing and addressing 4 the concerns of some groups for some political 5 purposes, you're essentially undermining the 6 entire process of adopting the compact. So it 7 would be totally impossible for us to accept 8 your amendment. I believe it's certainly 9 defeating the purpose of what the compact is 10 doing. 11 There's another thing that's 12 obvious that you neglected in your research 13 and that is there are provisions under the 14 current compact arrangement for specific 15 concerns to be addressed and you mentioned 16 specifically school districts being charged 17 additional funds. Well, that's absolutely 18 incorrect. School districts, any increased 19 price, they're being held harmless under the 20 provisions that have been adopted by the six 21 states who have entered into this contract. 22 So the information that you got from the city 23 of New York's memorandum in opposition is 24 absolutely incorrect, and I don't understand 25 why that's even in the memorandum because we, 1 myself and my staff had addressed that issue 2 with the mayor and his staff. So they're 3 putting something that I think they knowingly 4 know is incorrect in that memorandum, but in 5 any case, your amendment would just totally 6 undermine the whole process that we've gone 7 through and we attempt to deliver here today. 8 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Gentile. 12 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes. Thank 13 you, Mr. President. 14 Through you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 16 the amendment. 17 SENATOR GENTILE: Through you. 18 Senator, you might be correct in discussing 19 the ramifications of a multi-state compact, 20 but I'm actually just following the provisions 21 of the bill that you submitted before the - 22 this house today and particularly Section 23 23 of your bill which indicates that the right to 24 alter, amend or repeal this compact is 25 expressly reserved. I presume that to mean 1 that we can alter, amend or repeal this 2 contract in this body and if that's not the 3 case, Senator, then I would think that what we 4 need to do is revise the original bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Dollinger on the amendment. I would 7 just like to remind -- I would just like to 8 remind all members that the two-hour time 9 limit elapsed at 5:30. I don't know why you 10 speaking brings that to mind, Senator 11 Dollinger, but certainly we will recognize 12 you. 13 Senator Dollinger. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Very good, 15 Senator Maziarz, very good. I just want to 16 underline a point that Senator Gentile made 17 that really -- to somewhat disagree with the 18 sponsor of this legislation. 19 As I read it, New York State, 20 if it joins this compact, will be the big 21 gorilla in the compact. We have 70 percent of 22 the milk production. We're playing with 23 Vermont which has one-fourth, less than 24 one-quarter of what we've got, Maine which has 25 less than ten percent, down to Rhode Island 1 which has one-hundredth percent the production 2 that we do. Why shouldn't we take Senator 3 Gentile's guide and have New York City set the 4 policy for the compact because we think that's 5 the right thing for the compact to do? 6 I would suggest that we're 7 joining a compact with a bunch of small states 8 that we may not agree with but we have the 9 muscle. It's New York State that gives this 10 compact the power because we've got the 11 production, and I would suggest to you that 12 for New York State to relinquish to Maine, 13 Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New 14 Hampshire and Rhode Island, what is the best 15 public policy if we go with the compact is a 16 serious, serious relinquishing of the power of 17 the body in this state, which is going to be 18 the big player in this compact. We ought to 19 set that policy. Senator Gentile's amendment 20 sets that policy and sets it in the right 21 direction. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Paterson. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 25 Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Paterson, on the amendment. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: On the 4 amendment, Mr. President. I want to speak in 5 favor of Senator Gentile's amendment. He has 6 outlined some specific programs that relate to 7 child care, that relate to senior citizen 8 care, that relate to specialized programs that 9 would be unduly affected by the passage of 10 this legislation and even though we have heard 11 that the prices would not go up substantially 12 and some say they don't know whether the 13 prices would go up at all, we know that when 14 the compact first was entered into, that in 15 areas of New England, the prices went up 20 16 cents immediately. Now, they may have come 17 down and that was fairly stated that the 18 prices came down and I accept that, but the 19 original increase as it affects these kinds of 20 programs can have almost an immediate effect 21 as to whether or not these programs even 22 decide that they can stay in business. They 23 treat children. They make it possible for 24 their parents to work. They make it possible 25 for parents to work during the summer with 1 summer camps, private schools. Sometimes just 2 the slightest change will make the difference. 3 Now, I'm not going to tell you 4 that if the price is four cents higher per 5 gallon of milk that maybe it's a $4 amount per 6 year, that that's going to make the difference 7 in the survival of a day care center, for 8 instance, but it's these types of endeavors 9 that when compacted create that kind of end 10 and what we're really saying by introducing 11 this amendment, what we're really saying is 12 that this would be the fairest way to deal 13 with those who are the least able to fight the 14 increase in prices. 15 If we are actually saying that 16 we care about the day care centers and we want 17 to give them an incentive, there was a 18 suggestion that we could perform legislation 19 for that. I don't know any time that we ever 20 have created that kind of legislation for 21 that. In fact, over the past few years, we 22 have cut those aids to these social service 23 programs. So the time to address it would be 24 absolutely now. 25 We do not do this in a sense of 1 trying to undercut the actual bill or in any 2 way to hurt farmers who we have heard 3 articulated today very well by a number of 4 Senators are suffering as well. This is just 5 a way not to try to diminish the suffering for 6 one group on the backs of the other. Here we 7 can accomplish both by what Senator Gentile 8 has introduced and what I'm simply saying by 9 adding to it is that if we have a bill that 10 exactly complies with the federal legislation 11 and that there's a risk in passing this as 12 part of it, we should take note that the other 13 six states in the compact also have passed 14 pieces of legislation that are not strictly in 15 compliance or do not exactly replicate the 16 federal standard and they are still in the 17 compact right now. 18 So I think that this would be a 19 way for New York State not only to join the 20 compact but join it in a way that would 21 demonstrate a real understanding of those who 22 are in disadvantaged areas, which is really 23 what I understood from the sponsor is the real 24 scope and the real credo of the bill in the 25 first place, to try to help those, who 1 unfortunately due to market conditions, are 2 suffering and that being the farmers of the 3 state of New York, and so we really think we 4 would be helping both by adding to this 5 legislation Senator Gentile's well thought 6 amendment. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Senator Stafford, on the amendment. 9 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 10 President, I say this with all respect and 11 affection and concern for all who are talking 12 about let the marketplace make the decision in 13 the milk area. We can do this by changing the 14 compact. We can do that. We can bully our 15 way in already where they already have a 16 compact and have the advantage. 17 My friends, John Marchi 18 remembers when Bob McEwen used to argue the 19 milk bills here in the Senate back in the '50s 20 and it was the same debate and those of you 21 who don't really understand the milk orders 22 and really the intricacies of what government 23 and the involvement the past 30, 40, 50 years 24 as I don't, you make about as much sense as 25 forming an underground balloon corps. Now, 1 for those who don't understand that, that 2 means it would be hard to have balloons 3 underground. 4 My friends, whether we like it 5 or not, the state and federal government has 6 been involved in the milk industry for many, 7 many reasons and very candidly the milk 8 industry would not be able to function in 9 today's world if there was not that 10 involvement, and it's late so I will conclude 11 and I will explain to you that if we don't 12 have some changes that this compact will bring 13 about and have our farmers not producing under 14 cost as they have for the past 18 to 24 months 15 and also receiving what they receive in 1978 16 and 1980 for milk, corporate America will take 17 over and, my friends, you will be paying 18 dearly. 19 I say that because there has 20 been various points made, and I would suggest 21 some of the material that's appeared -- and 22 that this does not refer to anyone here in 23 this room -- that it would appear to me that 24 those who made this material available thinks 25 that dairy products, meat products and produce 1 come from the back room of our grocery stores 2 and for those that don't know, they don't. 3 They come off the backs of our dairy farmers 4 and others who produce in the agricultural 5 industry. 6 I make this statement and I 7 make it as succinctly and clearly and directly 8 as I can. We're where we are after the last 9 30 to 50 years, whether that's right or wrong, 10 there is an involvement of the federal and 11 state government and unless we make this 12 change, you aren't going to have the farmers 13 in New York and then we will be paying and 14 paying dearly. 15 This is needed. It's necessary 16 and I certainly urge its adoption. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 18 the amendment offered by Senator Gentile, all 19 those in favor of the amendment signify by 20 saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye".) 22 Those opposed, nay. 23 (Response of "Nay".) 24 SENATOR CONNOR: Slow roll 25 call. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: A 2 slow roll call -- I'm sorry, Senator Connor. 3 You're requesting a slow roll call on the 4 amendment? 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 7 the amendment, a vote of yes is a vote in 8 favor of Senator Gentile's amendment. A vote 9 of no is a vote opposed to Senator Gentile's 10 amendment. 11 The Secretary will call the 12 roll slowly on the amendment. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 14 (There was no response.) 15 Senator Alesi. 16 SENATOR ALESI: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Balboni. 19 SENATOR BALBONI: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Breslin. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Bruno. 24 (Negative indication.) 25 Senator Connor. 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 3 SENATOR COOK: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 DeFrancisco. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Dollinger. 9 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Gentile. 14 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Gonzalez. 18 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Goodman. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Hannon. Senator 23 Hannon. 24 (Negative indication.) 25 Senator Hoffmann. 1 (There was no response.) 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Johnson. 6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Nay. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 8 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 10 SENATOR KUHL: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Lachman. 13 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 15 SENATOR LACK: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 LaValle. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Leibell. 22 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Leichter. 25 (There was no response.) 1 Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Maltese. 5 SENATOR MALTESE: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Marcellino. 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 10 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Markowitz. 13 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Maziarz. 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 18 SENATOR MEIER: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 20 SENATOR MENDEZ: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Montgomery. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 25 SENATOR NANULA: Yes. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Onorato. 6 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Oppenheimer, excused. 9 Senator Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Paterson. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Present. 16 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Rosado, excused. 20 Senator Saland. 21 SENATOR SALAND: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Sampson. 24 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Santiago. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Seabrook. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Seward. 6 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 12 SENATOR SPANO: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Stachowski. 15 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stafford. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Stavisky. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 23 SENATOR TRUNZO: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator 25 Velella. 1 SENATOR VELELLA: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 3 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 5 SENATOR WALDON: I'll vote for 6 it. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Wright. 9 SENATOR WRIGHT: No. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 11 Secretary will call the absentees. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 13 (There was no response.) 14 Senator Breslin. 15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Goodman. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Hoffmann. 21 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Explain my 22 vote. It's my understanding - 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Hoffmann, to explain her vote. 25 SENATOR HOFFMANN: It's my 1 understanding that the compact has to pass an 2 identical language as previously passed for 3 the six New England states. I support the 4 general tenets of the amendment and I applaud 5 my colleagues for expressing an appropriate 6 concern for groups that could conceivably be 7 affected adversely even to a modest extent, 8 and I would be happy to work with them in 9 other areas following the implementation of 10 the compact in New York State, but because of 11 the technical limitations of the compact as 12 drafted, I would have to vote in the 13 negative. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 LaValle. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Leichter. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Rath. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Santiago. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Seabrook. 24 (There was no response.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 1 Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 18, nays 3 32. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 amendment is defeated. 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 10 the roll. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Slow roll 12 call, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Senator Paterson. Senator Paterson. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 16 President, I would like a slow roll call. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Senator Paterson. 19 SENATOR KUHL: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Kuhl. 22 SENATOR KUHL: Would you call a 23 slow roll call commencing with Senator Saland 24 and then Senator Lack and start in regular 25 alphabetical order, please. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Slow 2 roll call. 3 The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 7 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 8 SENATOR KUHL: Would you also 9 call Senator Marchi. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Kuhl. 12 SENATOR KUHL: Senator Marchi's 13 name, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 15 Secretary will read. On the bill. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 17 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 18 SENATOR KUHL: Regular order. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 20 Secretary will read the regular roll call 21 order on the bill. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 23 (There was no response.) 24 Senator Alesi. 25 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Balboni. 3 SENATOR BALBONI: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Breslin. 6 (There was no response.) 7 Senator Bruno. 8 (Affirmative indication.) 9 Senator Connor. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook. 12 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 DeFrancisco. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my 19 vote, Mr. President, just briefly. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Senator Dollinger, to briefly explain his 22 vote. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I couldn't 24 help but follow up the comments made by 25 Senator Stafford. I find it inconceivable 1 that someone would say the problem with the 2 milk industry has been overregulated by 3 government and do you know what our solution 4 today is? To regulate it some more. 5 I would love to have what 6 Senator Kuhl would like for the dairy farmers, 7 a fair price for milk. I would like to have a 8 fair price for film, a fair price for optical 9 products, a fair price for copiers and a fair 10 price for machine tool products. All of those 11 would be enormously valuable to the people in 12 my community. I'm not going to come to this 13 government and ask this government to give it 14 to them. 15 I vote no. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Gentile. 20 SENATOR GENTILE: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 22 (There was no response.) 23 Senator Gonzalez. 24 SENATOR GONZALEZ: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Goodman. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Hannon. 4 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Hoffmann. 7 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Johnson. 13 (There was no verbal response.) 14 Senator Kruger. 15 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 17 (Affirmative indication.) 18 Senator Lachman. 19 SENATOR LACHMAN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack 21 voting in the affirmative earlier. 22 Senator Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle 25 voting in the affirmative earlier. 1 Senator Leibell. 2 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Leichter voting in the negative earlier today. 5 Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Maltese. 9 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Marcellino. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi 14 voting in the affirmative earlier. 15 Senator Markowitz. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Maziarz. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 20 SENATOR MEIER: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez. 22 SENATOR MENDEZ: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Montgomery. 25 (There was no response.) 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 2 SENATOR NANULA: To explain my 3 vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Nanula, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR NANULA: In regard to 7 this issue -- and for the record, I'm not a 8 farmer. I don't think I have one farm or one 9 farm family in my district, but I do have a 10 little familiarity with the supermarket 11 business, and although I won't debate the pros 12 and cons of the bill, I would like to set one 13 issue straight for the record. 14 There have been a couple of 15 statements made, I won't repeat them in 16 detail, but they certainly alluded to the 17 premise that supermarket companies were making 18 windfall profits on the sale of milk. 19 I know from personal history 20 and experience with this issue that that is 21 absolutely not the case. Milk is what's 22 called a loss leader in the supermarket 23 business. It's a product that is priced by 24 supermarkets in a very competitive fashion to 25 draw customers into the store so they buy 1 other products when they're there and to say 2 that one supermarket chain or a family that 3 owns a supermarket chain is making so much 4 profit from their milk section that they're 5 going to be able to finance the construction 6 and operation of a store profitably is at best 7 an erroneous statement. 8 Again, I won't discuss or 9 debate the other merits of this bill. I 10 wanted to go on record and say that that 11 aspect of the debate that I've heard, in my 12 estimation and based upon my experience, is 13 completely wrong, and I also on the bill want 14 to vote no. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Senator Nanula will be recorded in the 18 negative. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Nozzolio. 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Onorato. 25 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Oppenheimer, excused. 3 Senator Padavan. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Present. 10 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath 12 voting in the affirmative earlier. 13 Senator Rosado, excused. 14 Senator Saland voting in the 15 affirmative earlier today. 16 Senator Sampson. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Santiago. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Seabrook. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Seward. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, 24 to briefly explain my vote. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 1 Senator Seward, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, Mr. 3 President. 4 This is a proud day for the 5 Senate, historic day for this house because 6 with this legislation before us, we are 7 appropriately responding to what I would call 8 a serious, serious crisis on the farm. It's a 9 crisis that comes from the fact that our 10 farmers are paying 1998 prices for their - 11 for the cost of production but they're being 12 paid 1980 prices for their product. You don't 13 have to be a rocket scientist to realize that 14 there's a serious financial squeeze on the 15 farm and as I've talked to farmers throughout 16 my district, I have never heard such distress 17 in their voices as they talk to me about this 18 financial crunch that they are facing and the 19 result has been some 500 farms lost throughout 20 1997 alone. Not only the loss of a business, 21 a loss when you lose a farm, it's a way of 22 life. Very often the home of the farmer and 23 his family is lost as well. A serious 24 crisis. 25 So we're talking today with 1 this legislation about taking a step toward 2 preserving the family farm. It's important to 3 the economy of this state. It's important to 4 our environment because our farmers who work 5 the land are tremendous environmentalists. 6 We have experience with the 7 Northeast Dairy Compact over in the new 8 England states. The experience tells us that 9 with the compact -- with New York joining the 10 compact, we will have a fair price paid to our 11 farmers here in New York. There will be a 12 stable supply of milk for our people and there 13 will not be an appreciable impact on consumer 14 prices. That's the experience of New 15 England. That can be our experience here in 16 New York as well. 17 So with that, Mr. President, 18 I'm very proud to stand up for my farmers and 19 the consumers of my district and vote aye on 20 this legislation. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 22 Senator Seward will be recorded in the 23 affirmative. 24 The Secretary will continue the 25 roll call. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 4 (There was no response.) 5 Senator Spano. 6 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Stachowski. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Stafford. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 17 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Velella. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Yes. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Wright. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Senator Wright. 4 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you. 5 First of all, I want to thank 6 my colleagues for their support this afternoon 7 and secondly in the tradition of the McEwen, 8 Barclay and McHugh seat, I vote aye. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 10 Senator Wright and colleagues will be recorded 11 in the affirmative. 12 The Secretary will call the 13 absentees. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 15 (There was no response.) 16 Senator Breslin. 17 SENATOR BRESLIN: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 19 (There was no response.) 20 Senator Goodman. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Senator Markowitz. 23 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: To explain 24 my vote. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 1 Senator Markowitz, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: How I wish 3 that Brooklyn, New York had a lot of farms, 4 and I want to invite the farmers here. Some 5 of your predecessors decades and decades ago 6 decided to leave beautiful sunny Brooklyn for 7 other parts of the state and the region, and I 8 hope for one that there is land available and 9 I invite the farmers to think about coming 10 back to Brooklyn and to making a contribution 11 to our economy downstate. 12 Having said that, I want the 13 farmers to know that no matter how we vote, 14 Democrat or Republican, all of us, all of us 15 feel very strongly about your contribution in 16 making the state a better place to live. The 17 importance of the dairy industry and the 18 agricultural industry cannot be overstated, 19 and I for one feel and have made friends with 20 many of the farmers that have visited me over 21 the years. 22 This is not the only issue. 23 Many of us support lowering of taxes, property 24 taxes to give the small farmer a greater 25 amount of income. There are many other issues 1 as it relates to insurance, liability, as it 2 relates to employment opportunities, tax 3 credits, assistance for agricultural colleges, 4 there are many different areas that come in 5 front of this Legislature for a vote where we 6 want to demonstrate our assistance, our effort 7 to show you that we are very supportive of 8 small farmers in this state. 9 Having said that, it grieves me 10 that on this legislation, the way it is right 11 now -- the way it is right now, that I don't 12 feel comfortable in supporting it because I'm 13 not convinced, even though I've heard many of 14 the arguments in the chamber and out, that 15 indeed the people that really need the 16 assistance, that small farmer will, indeed, be 17 the ones that totally benefit from this 18 legislation. 19 I for one am not convinced, and 20 I hope as this bill moves forward into the 21 Assembly and then greater discussion or review 22 moves forward, that legislation can come back 23 here, that I would be proud and enthusiastic 24 to support and that would meet the needs of 25 the small farmer and at the same time meet the 1 needs of all of us that care about farming in 2 the state of New York. 3 And so, Mr. President, at this 4 time, on this particular legislation, I have 5 to vote no. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 7 Senator Markowitz recorded in the negative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Montgomery. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. 14 I rise to ditto essentially 15 what Senator Markowitz has said in terms of 16 our appreciation and regard for small farmers 17 throughout this state and more particularly as 18 we speak this evening, dairy farmers, but, Mr. 19 President, I have before me two pages of lists 20 of people in my district who would be 21 particularly hurt by the compact as it stands 22 now. Notwithstanding the fact that WIC would 23 be exempt from any price increases, I do 24 understand that since we were not able to pass 25 the amendment which Senator Gentile has put 1 before us in terms of the number of small 2 groups that serve children and the elderly 3 would suffer, some consequences in terms of an 4 increase in pricing, I must say that this 5 compact will particularly hurt the people in 6 my district and, therefore, unfortunately I am 7 going to vote no on the legislation. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 9 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the 10 negative. 11 The Secretary will resume the 12 roll. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Sampson. 15 SENATOR SAMPSON: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Santiago. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Seabrook. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Smith. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Senator Smith. 24 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you, Mr. 25 President. 1 I too agree with my colleague, 2 Senator Markowitz. I think it is time that we 3 did something to assist the farmers and I do 4 not believe half of what I've heard here today 5 in relation to this bill, and I made a 6 commitment to stick with my colleague, Senator 7 Waldon, and I too vote yes with him. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 9 Senator Smith will be recorded in the 10 affirmative. 11 The Secretary will resume the 12 roll. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Velella. 15 (There was no verbal response.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 35, nays 19 18. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 21 bill is passed. 22 (Applause) 23 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, 24 may we have a detailed statement, please. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 1 Senator Connor. 2 SENATOR CONNOR: May we have a 3 detailed statement, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: On Calendar 7 Number 38, those Senators recorded in the 8 affirmative: Senators Alesi, Bruno, Cook, 9 DeFrancisco, Farley, Hannon, Hoffmann, 10 Holland, Johnson, Kuhl, Lack, Larkin, LaValle, 11 Leibell, Libous, Maltese, Marcellino, Marchi, 12 Maziarz, Meier, Nozzolio, Padavan, Present, 13 Rath, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Smith, Spano, 14 Stachowski, Stafford, Trunzo, Volker, Waldon 15 and Wright. 16 Those Senators recorded in the 17 negative: Balboni, Breslin, Connor, 18 Dollinger, Gentile, Gonzalez, Kruger, Lachman, 19 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, 20 Nanula, Onorato, Paterson, Sampson, Stavisky 21 and Velella. 22 Those Senators absent: Abate, 23 Gold, Goodman, Santiago, Seabrook. 24 Those Senators excused: 25 Oppenheimer and Rosado. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Kuhl. 3 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 4 President. On the controversial calendar, 5 would you call up Calendar Number 154 now, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 154, Senator Skelos, Senate Print 311, an act 11 to amend the General Obligations Law, in 12 relation to exoneration of certain crime 13 victims. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the 22 roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Senator Kuhl. 25 SENATOR KUHL: I believe that 1 completes the con... 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 3 President, we didn't announce the vote. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Paterson. 6 SENATOR PATERSON: We didn't 7 announce the vote on the last bill, Calendar 8 Number 154. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 10 the roll. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: We did that. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 13 Those in the negative, please raise your 14 hand. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: We did 16 that. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 18 Well, we didn't -- the Secretary did not get 19 it all, Senator Paterson. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: That's why I 21 stood up. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 23 Everybody is in a hurry to move. 24 Announce the results. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 1 in the negative on Calendar Number 154 are 2 Senators Connor, Dollinger and Paterson. Ayes 3 54, nays 3. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Stavisky. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 8 President, previously we recorded a vote on 9 Calendar 156 and 183. With approval, I should 10 like to be recorded in the negative on both. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 12 Without objection, so ordered. 13 Senator Nanula then. 14 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 I too would like to be recorded 17 in the negative on Calendar Number 183. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 19 Without objection, so ordered. 20 Senator Lachman. 21 SENATOR LACHMAN: I ask 22 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 23 negative on 183. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 25 Without objection, so ordered. 1 Senator Dollinger. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President, with unanimous consent, I would 4 like to be recorded in the negative on 156. I 5 believe I was recorded in the negative on 183 6 when the vote was called. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 8 Without objection, so ordered. 9 Senator Gentile. 10 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. 11 President, I would ask for unanimous consent 12 to be recorded in the negative on number 156. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Without objection, so ordered. 15 Senator Waldon. 16 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. President. 18 Yesterday I was called out of 19 the chamber on other Senate business. I would 20 like the record to reflect that had I been 21 here on Calendar 323, Senate 222, I would have 22 voted in the negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 24 Without objection, so ordered. 25 Senator Libous. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 2 could we return to motions, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 4 Return to motions and resolutions. 5 Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 7 on behalf of Senator Stafford, I would like 8 to, on page 12, I offer the following 9 amendments to Calendar Number 203, Senate 10 Print Number 6011, and ask that said bill 11 retain its place on the Third Reading 12 Calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 14 amendments are received. The bill will retain 15 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 16 Senator Kuhl. 17 SENATOR KUHL: Is there any 18 other housekeeping? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 20 Yes. Return to reports of standing 21 committees. 22 The Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Wright, 24 from the Committee on Alcoholism and Drug 25 Abuse, reports: 1 Senate Print 37, by Senator 2 Levy, an act in relation to requiring; 3 65-A, by Senator Levy, an act 4 to amend the Education Law; 5 2353-A by Senator Leibell, an 6 act to amend the Education Law; 7 3358-A, by Senator Volker, an 8 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control 9 Law and others. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Without objection. 12 Senator Kuhl. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Marcellino, from the Committee on 15 Environmental Conservation, reports: 16 Senate Print 2720, by Senator 17 Johnson, an act to amend the Environmental 18 Conservation Law; 19 4910, by Senator Maltese, an 20 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 21 Law; 22 5465, by Senator Kuhl, an act 23 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law; 24 and 25 6216, by Senator Marcellino, an 1 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 2 Law. 3 All bills ordered direct for 4 third reading. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Without objection, all bills are directed to 7 the third reading. 8 Senator Kuhl. 9 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Mr. 10 President. On behalf of Senator Bruno, I 11 would like to hand up the following committee 12 change and ask that it be filed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 14 Filed in the Journal. 15 Senator Kuhl. 16 SENATOR KUHL: Also, on behalf 17 of the members and those people who can hear 18 my voice, next Monday, I would ask all the 19 members to come in their finest condition, get 20 haircuts, shaves over the weekend, that sort 21 of thing, because it's the full Senate 22 picture, next Monday at session time. 23 So with this reminder. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 would Senator Kuhl yield? 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Kuhl, 4 is it a dark shirt or a light shirt for the 5 photo? 6 SENATOR KUHL: It depends on 7 how you voted today. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 9 Senator Kuhl, I'm to understand you stated it 10 was 3:00 p.m. sharp, that Senate picture. 11 SENATOR KUHL: The Senate 12 picture is 3:00 p.m. sharp. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: This 14 is 3:00 p.m. Bruno time. 15 SENATOR KUHL: There being no 16 further business, Mr. President, I move we 17 adjourn until Monday, March 2nd, at 3:00 p.m., 18 with intervening days to be legislative days. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 20 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 21 Monday, March 2nd, 3:00 p.m., intervening days 22 to be legislative days. 23 (Whereupon, at 6:21 p.m., the 24 Senate adjourned.) 25