Monday, March 9, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 9, 1998 11 3:06 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Microphones inoperative) 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 4 come to order. Would you please rise and join 5 with me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 6 (The assemblage repeated the 7 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 The invocation today will be 9 given by Reverend Alonzo C. Pruitt, Rector of 10 St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Brooklyn. 11 REVEREND PRUITT: Almighty God, 12 our heavenly Father, beloved father of our 13 Lord Jesus Christ, Thou who art known as the 14 Son, as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 15 and known to others as Allah and to still 16 others as the divine (inaudible). We give You 17 thanks and praise for the privilege we have of 18 being a part of the world You have created and 19 as we pray for all people in every place, we 20 especially pray for the people of the United 21 States and particularly for the more than 22 18,100,000 residents of our great Empire 23 State. As we ask Your blessing upon the 24 Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches 25 of our government, we especially pray for our 1 distinguished Governor. We ask, O Lord, that 2 mindful of our motto, we might be all things 3 to whomever, that all of us might bring all 4 people together and might accomplish the will 5 and purpose of God. In Jesus' name we pray. 6 Amen. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Amen. Reading 8 of the Journal, please. 9 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 10 Friday, March 6th. The Journal of Thursday, 11 March 5th, was read and approved. On motion, 12 Senate adjourned. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Without 14 objection, the Journal stands approved as 15 read. 16 Presentation of petitions. 17 Messages from the Assembly. 18 Messages from the Governor. 19 Reports of standing 20 committees. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Madam 22 President, I'm aware that we have a message 23 from the Assembly delivered to this chamber on 24 March 4th of last week. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 1 read. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: If so, I'd 3 like to have it read and introduced at this 4 time. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Without going 8 into a dialogue with members of the desk, 9 seeing them shake their heads, I believe 10 there's no message, so perhaps if we could 11 move along and they could see if it could be 12 located. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 15 Paterson, it is not yet at the desk. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, 17 one second. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, just if I 22 can make an inquiry. I have something in 23 front of me which I understand was passed in 24 the Assembly. It basically -- and I wondered 25 whether it had reached the desk and should be 1 read in, but just in case there's a mis 2 understanding, I -- let me, it's very short. 3 I want to read this, and then we can know 4 whether we're talking about the exact same 5 document. 6 This says: WHEREAS the term of 7 the Regents of the University of the State of 8 New York - 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 10 President, is there a message from the 11 Assembly at the desk? 12 THE PRESIDENT: No. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: May we then 14 proceed. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Madam 16 President - 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 18 SENATOR GOLD: I wanted to find 19 out if this would be - 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Just a moment. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold, 22 I'm not going to interrupt you. I'm just 23 going to look into this for a moment, please. 24 Senator Gold, would you finish 25 your comment, please. 1 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam 2 President. 3 I don't think I can be out of 4 order before I raise my question. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: May I ask - 6 THE PRESIDENT: He's just 7 posing a question about the order. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Has the Chair 9 ruled that there is no message at the desk? 10 THE PRESIDENT: That is 11 correct. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Then I think 13 it would be appropriate if we continue through 14 the agenda and if, at some point, if find the 15 message, we can return to reports of the 16 Assembly. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: A point of 18 order, Madam President. 19 SENATOR GOLD: Madam 20 President. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: I think the 22 point of order has been raised already. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator 24 Paterson. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: I understand 1 the Majority Leader's point of order. 2 However, what I was addressing is exactly his 3 point of order. He inquired whether or not 4 this message has been received at the desk, 5 and I have been informed by the Assembly that 6 this message was delivered on March 4th, a 7 Wednesday, Wednesday of last week and again, 8 on March 6th, on Friday, and so I would ask 9 that the desk take a good look, because I -- I 10 think the message is there. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Madam 12 President. Madam President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Madam 15 President. I rose to make an inquiry of the 16 Chair and was interrupted by someone on the 17 other side, and - 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Is a point of 19 order now an interruption in your mind? 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 21 please let Senator Gold just continue his 22 question. 23 Go ahead. 24 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, 25 as I understood the point of order, I don't 1 understand it. I'm making it through the 2 Chair. Is it out of order for a member to 3 make an inquiry of the Chair? 4 THE PRESIDENT: No. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Well. Then, I 6 would like to make my inquiry of the Chair. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Could I have a 8 ruling on my point of order in that you've 9 already said the message is not at the desk. 10 THE PRESIDENT: I have ruled 11 that there is no message at the desk, but 12 Senator Gold is raising a question about that 13 issue. 14 SENATOR GOLD: Well, Madam 15 President, I'm not questioning his point of 16 order. I have nothing to do with it. I mean 17 the man doesn't listen. I'm asking the 18 question of the Chair. If he has a point of 19 order that says I'm not allowed to make an 20 inquiry of the Chair, we can discuss that 21 point of order but I just rose to make an 22 inquiry of the Chair which, under the rules, 23 I'm allowed to do. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, please 25 continue. 1 SENATOR GOLD: This is my 2 inquiry of the Chair. Madam President, I have 3 a piece of paper - 4 SENATOR SKELOS: Can I have a 5 ruling on my point of order first? 6 SENATOR GOLD: May I have the 7 point of order stated. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Right now, 9 Senator Gold is raising a question of the 10 Chair. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: The point of 12 order is basically, Senator Gold, that you're 13 out of order at this point, that the Chair has 14 ruled that the message from the Assembly is 15 not at the desk. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: You asked if 17 there is a message. They said there is no 18 message at the desk and that we should then 19 proceed with the calendar. 20 SENATOR GOLD: I agree with his 21 point of order. 22 Point of inquiry, Madam 23 President. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: What's 25 important now is a ruling on the point of 1 order. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Would you 3 please let Senator Gold continue with his 4 point of order. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President, 6 I'd like to continue. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 8 SENATOR GOLD: Assuming there 9 was a piece of paper that said, WHEREAS, the 10 term of the Regents of the University of the 11 State of New York for the 11th and 12th 12 Judicial District expires April 1, 1998; and. 13 WHEREAS, such position - 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 15 President, as part of my point of order, could 16 I ask Senator Gold what's his inquiry since 17 you've already ruled that there's no message 18 from the Assembly at the desk. 19 THE PRESIDENT: We will know 20 what his inquiry is when he continues. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Now, if he 22 would like to speak at the end of session 23 where it's appropriate and speak at that time, 24 he could. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 1 please let Senator Gold continue his inquiry. 2 Thank you. Go ahead. 3 SENATOR GOLD: WHEREAS, said 4 positions have not been filed by -- or filled 5 by concurrent resolution of the Senate and 6 Assembly by March 3, 1998; and 7 WHEREAS, pursuant to Section 8 202 of the Education Law, when a concurrent 9 resolution is not passed, the Senate and 10 Assembly shall meet in joint session at noon 11 on the second Tuesday of March and proceed to 12 elect Regents by joint ballot; and 13 WHEREAS, such joint ballot is 14 to be cast by members of the Legislature 15 meeting in a unicameral body; 16 NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED 17 that the honorable members of the Senate are 18 advised that pursuant to Section 202 of the 19 Education Law, the time and place of such 20 meeting has been established to be noon on 21 Tuesday, March 10, 1998 in the Assembly 22 Chamber; and 23 IT IS FURTHER RESOLVED that 24 upon adoption of this resolution, a copy of 25 the same shall be transmitted to the Senate. 1 Now, Madam President, assuming 2 there was a piece of paper with that language 3 in it, may I ask if a piece of paper with that 4 language in it was delivered to this house by 5 the Assembly? 6 THE PRESIDENT: According to 7 the desk, no. 8 SENATOR GOLD: All right, Madam 9 President. I have another inquiry of the 10 Chair. 11 Madam President, it's my 12 understanding that, under Section 202, of the 13 Education Law, if the houses of the 14 Legislature have not agreed by joint 15 resolution that there be someone elected to 16 fulfill a post of Regent, that as a matter of 17 operation by law, there will be a meeting of 18 both houses on the -- the Tuesday involved 19 which, in this particular case would be March 20 10th, 1998, in the Assembly Chamber; and my 21 question so that I may know my own conduct 22 tomorrow, Madam President, is, is it not a 23 fact that in the operation of law, if we were 24 to, as elected members of the Legislature, 25 follow the law, which would be interesting, 1 that we are all due in the Assembly Chamber at 2 12 noon tomorrow? 3 THE PRESIDENT: That would be 4 correct. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam 6 President. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Ms. President, 8 could we now move to messages from the 9 Governor. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Messages 11 from the Governor. 12 Reports of standing 13 committees. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo, 16 from the Committee on Civil Service and 17 Pensions, reports the following bills: 18 Senate Print 3052-A, by Senator 19 Trunzo, an act to amend the Retirement and 20 Social Security Law; 21 3275-A, by Senator Trunzo, an 22 act to amend the Retirement and Social 23 Security Law; 24 4806-D, by Senator Spano, an 25 act to amend the Retirement and Social 1 Security Law; and 2 6179, by Senator Trunzo, an act 3 to amend the Retirement and Social Security 4 Law. 5 All bills ordered direct for 6 third reading. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Without 8 objection, all bills direct to third reading. 9 Reports of select committees. 10 Communications and reports from 11 state officers. 12 Motions and resolutions. 13 Senator Meier. 14 SENATOR MEIER: Madam 15 President, on behalf of Senator Skelos, on 16 page 18, I offer the following amendments to 17 Calendar Number 317, Print Number 310, and ask 18 that said bill retain its place on the Third 19 Reading Calendar. 20 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 21 SENATOR MEIER: Madam 22 President, on behalf of Senator Wright, on 23 page number 15, I offer the following 24 amendments to Calendar Number 272, Print 25 Number 2167, and ask that said bill retain its 1 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 2 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 3 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 6 there is a substitution at the desk. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Make the 8 substitution. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 10 read. 11 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 12 Senator Johnson moves to discharge from the 13 Committee on Agriculture Assembly Bill Number 14 6754-C, and substitute it for the identical 15 Third Reading Calendar 187. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 17 ordered. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 19 President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 21 Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 23 there's a privileged resolution at the desk, 24 sponsored by Senator Johnson. I ask that the 25 title be read and move for its immediate 1 adoption. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 3 read. 4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 5 Johnson, Legislative Resolution commending 6 Alice Gordon upon the occasion of her 7 designation as Employee of the Year by the New 8 York State Developmental Planning Council. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 10 on the resolution. All in favor please 11 signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 Opposed nay. 14 (There was no response. ) 15 The resolution is adopted. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 18 President, could we take up the 19 non-controversial calendar. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 21 read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 62, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 35-A, an 24 act to amend the Education Law and the Public 25 Officers Law, in relation to the Board of 1 Regents of the University of the State of New 2 York. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 4 please. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Laid aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 63, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print Number 8 303-A, an act to amend the Education Law, in 9 relation to the Board of Regents of the 10 University of the State of New York. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it 12 aside. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Laid aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 97, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3069, an 16 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 17 relation to the defense of guilty but mentally 18 ill. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside 20 for the day. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside 22 for the day, please. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 143, by Senator Volker, Senate Print Number 25 1467-B, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 1 Law, the Family Court Act and the Penal Law, 2 in relation to crimes involving firearms. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 4 section, please. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. 6 This act shall take effect on the first day of 7 November. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the 10 roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 170, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 463, an 16 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 17 expanding student aid programs for Vietnam and 18 Persian Gulf veterans. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 22 This act shall take effect on the 120th 23 day. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 25 the roll. 1 (The Secretary called the 2 roll. ) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 203, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6011-A, 8 an act to amend the Highway Law, in relation 9 to the designation of the Mayor Frank Ratigan 10 Memorial Bridge. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 14 This act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the 18 roll. ) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 218, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3267-A, 24 an act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 25 non-resident volunteer firefighters. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 4 This act shall take effect on the last day of 5 January. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 7 the roll. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 225, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454. 13 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay 15 the bill aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 226, by Senator Johnson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay the bill 19 aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay 21 the bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 244, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly 24 Print 8870, an act to amend Chapter 84 of the 25 Laws of 1993, amending the Private Housing 1 Finance Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 5 This act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the 9 roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 245, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly 15 Print 8869, an act to amend Chapter 449 of the 16 Laws of 1986, amending the Private Housing 17 Finance Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 21 This act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the 25 roll.) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar number 5 246, by member of the Assembly Lopez, Assembly 6 Print 8871, an act to amend Chapter 777 of the 7 Laws of 1986, amending the Private Housing 8 Finance Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 12 This act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 250, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5150, an 21 act to amend the Domestic Relations Law, in 22 relation to disinterested persons eligible to 23 conduct investigations. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 25 the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 251, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5176, an 12 act to amend the Social Services Law, in 13 relation to capacity of foster family boarding 14 homes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 18 This act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the 22 roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 25 bill is passed. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 252, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5223, an 3 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation 4 to court reviews of extension of out-of-state 5 foster care placements. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the 13 roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 280, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 306, an 19 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 20 relation to limiting plea bargaining for 21 sexual offenders. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Lay aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay 24 the bill aside. 25 Senator Skelos, that completes 1 the reading of the non-controversial 2 calendar. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 4 take up the controversial calendar, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 6 Secretary will read the controversial 7 calendar. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 62 - 10 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 12 Senator Gold. 13 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Is 14 Calendar Number 317 on our calendar? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: That 16 was amended earlier today, Senator Gold. 17 Secretary will continue the 18 reading of the controversial calendar. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 62, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 35-A, an 21 act to amend the Education Law, and the Public 22 Officers Law, in relation to the Board of 23 Regents of the University of the State of New 24 York. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Gold. 3 SENATOR GOLD: A few questions. 4 I don't know whether the Senator would prefer 5 to explain the bill. 6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I'd 7 like to speak about the bill for a few minutes 8 and then I'd certainly love to answer any 9 questions, if I could. 10 SENATOR GOLD: No problem. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 12 Senator LaValle. 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: For purposes 14 of the debate, discussion, I'd like to talk 15 about both Calendar Number 62 and Calendar 16 Number 63. 17 These bills have been discussed 18 and debated on this floor before and they have 19 been put in to reform a process that is in 20 need of repair. It is a process that we are 21 talking about the election and selection of 22 members of the Board of Regents at a time when 23 we are doing the budget, and so Senate Bill 24 303-A moves the process for the selection of 25 Regents to make it consistent with when we 1 talk about education matters and vote on 2 school budgets throughout the state, the third 3 Tuesday in May, and we make the terms of the 4 members of the Board of Regents consistent 5 with those of school board members that have a 6 term from July 1st to June the 30th. We go 7 beyond that in Calendar Number 62, which is 8 really the -- the main bill that goes to the 9 heart of the reform. 10 As many of you know, we vote on 11 members of the Board of Regents, and many of 12 the members are -- scratch their heads and 13 say, How did these people come before us? 14 Where did they come from? That, of course, has 15 always been a good question. The process in 16 the last number of years has been refined 17 somewhat by the Legislature to at least 18 provide members who have been selected by 19 whatever bizarre methodology, but at least 20 they come before the Education Committees; but 21 there is no rhyme or reason on how the members 22 who the committee and ultimately the members 23 of the Legislature will be voting on, how they 24 got into the process or even what kind of 25 credentials the individuals should have; and 1 so in this legislation we replicate a process 2 that seems to work that is non-partisan - 3 non-partisan -- and that process is the way we 4 select members who come before us for the 5 Court of Appeals. 6 We set up a commission. The 7 Speaker has four appointments, President Pro 8 Tem has four appointments. The Minority 9 Leaders in each of the houses have two 10 appointments. So we have a body of 12 people 11 that would draw up what qualifications we 12 would be looking for and actually go through a 13 screening process and recommend to the 14 Legislature, to the committees three names for 15 each position. The committees then hold public 16 hearings -- public hearings -- on the 17 credentials, and select one member to come 18 before the Legislature for a vote. 19 We do other things. We -- many 20 of you may not realize, but the Board of 21 Regents, their meetings, you cannot find a 22 transcript for meetings of the Board of 23 Regents. Here we are in an era when we have 24 open meetings and people looking for 25 transcripts. You will not find transcripts. 1 We have the Governor 2 recommending both the chancellor and the 3 vice-chancellor, with the advice and consent 4 of the Senate. We ask that members of the 5 Board of Regents hold local public hearings in 6 each of the judicial districts. We ask that 7 they create advisory committees to advise 8 them, made up of all the stakeholders that 9 make up the educational community to give them 10 input, and lastly, we ask that the chancellor 11 and the Commissioner of Education come before 12 the legislative committees to answer questions 13 that the Legislature may have on the education 14 plan that is merely filed before the 15 Legislature; and so what we want is a public 16 discussion of the Regents education plan. 17 We believe that these reforms 18 bring us into the modern time. It honors the 19 integrity of the Legislature and the bicameral 20 nature of the Legislature. It honors the 21 integrity of each member's participation and 22 their vote in the process, and also what we've 23 talked about over and over on this floor, it 24 opens up the process to have public hearings, 25 public meetings, and an opportunity for 1 participation at a time when the members are 2 not preoccupied with the budget process. 3 Senator Gold, I'll answer any 4 questions you might have. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you very 6 much. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: But to begin 10 with, just to clarify the record, it's my 11 understanding that Phil Simms, who works for 12 our desk people, did in fact sign on March 4th 13 for the Assembly resolution, and I think that 14 there might be some clarification, Mr. 15 President, if we could now check with the desk 16 people as to whether or not the Assembly 17 resolution actually did reach the Senate. 18 Would you do that for me, sir? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Well, 20 Senator, I believe there's a bill before the 21 house right now. 22 SENATOR GOLD: I'm not in a 23 hurry. 24 Yeah, would the Senator yield 25 to a question? 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, at page 4 1 and 2 of your bill, I believe you are 5 amending - 6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Is that 7 Senate Bill 35-A, Senator? 8 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir. Yes, 9 sir. 10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 11 SENATOR GOLD: I believe that 12 on pages 1 and 2 you start off by amending 13 Section 202 of the Education Law, isn't that 14 correct? 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: That's 16 correct. 17 SENATOR GOLD: If you will 18 yield to another question, please. 19 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir. 20 SENATOR GOLD: On page 2, lines 21 11 through 24, I believe is new language and 22 that language would go right after the word 23 "Legislature" on line 5 where you take out 24 language on lines 5 through lines 10, is that 25 correct? 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: It begins on 2 line 5, with the terms "by concurrent 3 resolution". 4 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: And ends on 6 line 10 with the words "by joint ballot". 7 SENATOR GOLD: And those words 8 would be eliminated if this becomes a law. 9 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is 10 correct. 11 SENATOR GOLD: And it goes 12 without saying that we can't eliminate it if 13 it were in the law today, those words were the 14 law today, is that correct? 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is 16 correct, Senator. 17 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 18 Senator, reading from page 2 of your bill, 19 line 5, it says, "Each Regent shall be elected 20 by the Legislature by concurrent resolution in 21 the preceding March on or before the first 22 Tuesday of that month." Senator, that has not 23 happened this year, has it? 24 SENATOR LAVALLE: That is 25 correct. 1 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. Then it 2 says - 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: By the way, 4 Senator, I might add that that has not 5 happened. The last time I believe was 1993, 6 when we had -- is that correct? 1993 when we 7 had elected a Regent by concurrent 8 resolution. As a matter of fact, I believe 11 9 of the 16 Regents have been elected in joint 10 session, Senator. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, Mr. Presi 12 dent,if the Senator would yield to a question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 14 Senator Gold. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, then on 16 line 7 it continues, "If, however, the 17 Legislature fails to agree on such concurrent 18 resolution, then the two houses shall meet in 19 joint session at noon on the second Tuesday of 20 such month and then proceed to elect such 21 Regent by joint ballot." 22 Now, Senator, in the sentence I 23 just read which is existing law, and I refer 24 you to line 9, it doesn't say, does it, that 25 the two houses may meet or might meet, says 1 that they shall meet, isn't that true? 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: That -- that 3 is, Senator, I think you've read those words 4 correctly in what is the existing law. 5 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah. And, 6 Senator, that -- that line doesn't say that 7 it's even necessary or for there to be a joint 8 resolution of each house calling for that 9 session. It says that that session happens by 10 operation of law, doesn't it? 11 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, you 12 might -- you might argue that. That is, that 13 certainly is an argument. On the other hand, 14 it has long been, by custom and tradition, 15 that -- and particularly if you look at the 16 last number of years, that the Assembly has 17 sent a resolution to this house indicating 18 that there was no agreement by concurrent 19 resolution on the preceding Tuesday, and that 20 we would be meeting in unicameral joint 21 session, and the time of 12:00 noon was 22 mentioned on the date of the follow -- of the 23 following Tuesday. So that that has been - 24 that has been what the custom and tradition 25 has been in executing the language of this 1 law. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Well, if the 3 Senator will yield to a question. 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I hope 8 it's not your position that, if the law of the 9 state of New York created by this Legislature 10 and signed by a Governor states that if we do 11 not do an act by the first Tuesday of -- of 12 March, and states very clearly that we shall 13 -- doesn't say may, it doesn't say, if you 14 like it, if you didn't like it, it says 15 "shall", and it even says where it's going to 16 be. It says we shall be in joint session in 17 joint ballot at 12:00 noon. 18 Senator, are you suggesting 19 that we have, by tradition or by custom, have 20 the right to change the wording of that 21 statute? 22 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I 23 think the -- I don't think we are changing it, 24 but that has been what has happened over the 25 -- over the years, and I might not make the 1 argument that because we didn't have a 2 resolution that we had necessarily a failed 3 process. I mean I just have a problem that 4 the process is failed to begin with, when 5 members of this house are not even needed to 6 participate to have a quorum for such a joint 7 session, because the Assembly on their own can 8 provide the 106 votes that are needed for a 9 quorum. 10 So the Senate is immaterial to 11 the process. You, Senator, are; I am, 12 inconsequential to the process, and the people 13 that sent you here to cast a vote on behalf of 14 the Regents, so the process itself is failed 15 and you're arguing about whether the 16 resolution would be violative to your reading 17 of the statute. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 20 Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, on the 22 bill. 23 Senator LaValle, your last 24 comments were extraordinarily, extraordinarily 25 important and interesting. You are a member 1 of the Majority in a house, and let's forget 2 the joint session. According to the 3 leadership of your party, we're not even 4 relevant in this house. You can have a quorum 5 without us. You pass bills, whether we like 6 it or not, without us. You ignore bills which 7 we put in which could benefit the people of 8 the state, and that doesn't seem to bother 9 you. 10 Day after day after day, 11 motions to discharge are made on bills which 12 have great merit. Suggestions are made by 13 this Minority that have great merit and, 14 Senator LaValle, as someone who truly, without 15 any sarcasm, respects you very, very much as a 16 person and as a legislator, but you on a 17 day-to-day basis don't complain that this 18 Minority is shut off. 19 I think it's interesting that 20 you complain that the Senate you believe is 21 shut out in the process of electing a Regent, 22 and the only reason you really complain about 23 that is because you know, being as intelligent 24 as you are, that when you add Republican to 25 Republican and Democrat to Democrat in each of 1 the houses, this Majority in this house of 2 Republicans has not as much power as you would 3 like to have in that session; but that's what 4 the real complaint is. 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator Gold. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, sir. 7 SENATOR LAVALLE: Did you ask 8 me to yield for a question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 10 Senator LaValle, are you asking Senator Gold 11 to yield to a question? 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Senator LaValle, are you asking Senator Gold 16 to yield. 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: I yielded the 18 floor, and I was going to continue on with an 19 answer. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 21 Senator LaValle, just to be clear, Senator 22 Gold is on the bill. Senator Gold, do you 23 yield to Senator LaValle? 24 SENATOR GOLD: Not really, but 25 maybe. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Gold, the Chair needs to know whether 3 or not you yield. 4 SENATOR GOLD: I believe I 5 yielded the floor to Senator LaValle to 6 explain the bill and then to ask some 7 questions, but I believe I did have the 8 floor. I'll be finished in just a minute. 9 Thank you, Senator LaValle. 10 Senator LaValle, the bottom 11 line here is a simple one and that is that, 12 although like everything that's passed by this 13 house day in and day out, I got elected to be 14 here and to participate in the process, and I 15 do it, and it would seem to me that the 16 Majority in this house which comes here every 17 day when it can throw out its chest and bully 18 everybody because you're in the Majority, 19 ought to understand that the law is the law 20 and, Senator, I think the desk, which is 21 always honorable, and which acts in the best 22 interest of the Senate all the time, will be 23 glad to tell you that on March 4th, Phil Simms 24 did, in fact, sign for Assembly Resolution 25 1660, wherein the Assembly passed the 1 resolution to set up the joint session in 2 conformity with the statute, and I would say 3 to the leadership of this house that I for one 4 intend to obey the law and be in the Assembly 5 Chamber tomorrow for a joint session, and I 6 would hope that after all we hear today and 7 all we've heard in the past from the Majority 8 about the obligations we have to the law of 9 the state of New York, that all members will 10 obey the law and be in the Assembly Chamber 11 tomorrow. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 13 Senator LaValle. 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 I really want to just briefly 17 comment on something that Senator Gold talked 18 about that I think is very, very important. 19 The remarks that I made, Senator, you may have 20 some differences of opinion on what happens 21 within this house and question a rule but, 22 Senator, what I am questioning is the fact 23 that in our Constitution it establishes a 24 bicameral legislature, and the selection of 25 the Board of Regents and the methodology flies 1 in the face of the bicameral legislature 2 created by our Constitution; so it's something 3 far bigger and far broader and the importance 4 is that each of our votes, each of our 5 participation counts. 6 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Senator Gold. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Will the 10 gentleman yield to one question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 12 Senator -- Senator LaValle, will you yield? 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Sure. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Senator LaValle yields, Senator Gold. 16 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, you 17 stated very eloquently that we have a 18 bicameral legislature, and the selection of 19 Regents, you say, flies in the face of that 20 but if you read the language of the existing 21 law, on page 2 of your bill it specifically 22 says that the Regent will be elected only by 23 joint resolution of the Legislature, which 24 means both houses, bicameral, both houses, or 25 it says that if they have can't do that, then 1 the two houses will meet as one, and even 2 there the two houses must meet. 3 Now, Senator, you know as well 4 as I do, that if the Assembly Democrats wanted 5 to select somebody named Jones and the 6 Republicans in the Senate wanted Smith, and we 7 thought Smith was good, and if the Assembly 8 Republicans thought Smith was good, you know 9 very well that the Republicans in this house 10 and the Republicans in the Assembly together 11 with our Conference here would elect the 12 Regent, and I think if that happened, you 13 wouldn't complain at all about the quorum 14 requirements or the fact that we were meeting 15 in single unicameral fashion. 16 So, Senator, you know, you and 17 I have been friends and I hope we have a 18 mutual respect, we both know what we're 19 talking about, all right? The Republican 20 Majority in this house is used to having its 21 way and, unfortunately for them, when you put 22 the two houses together, you lose that 23 Majority and you get the feeling of what it is 24 to have things not exactly go your way. 25 I don't think it's any more 1 than that. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 3 Senator LaValle. 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: If that was a 5 question, all I say, Senator, is that if you 6 want to defend that in light of our 7 Constitution that provides for a bicameral 8 legislature and a bicameral process, then 9 that's fine with me. I'm trying to change 10 that, and we historically should be looking 11 beyond a point in time and who controls the 12 Assembly or who controls the Senate, because 13 what is required under our Constitution is the 14 full participation of all its members, and it 15 is, you know, my feeling that it flies in the 16 face of the constitutional mandate that there 17 be a bicameral process. 18 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 20 Senator Gold. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Would the 22 Senator yield to one question on his new 23 language? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 25 Senator LaValle. 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yeah. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, on your 5 new language on the 3rd Tuesday in May, it 6 says, "***provided, however, such election 7 shall be held on the second Tuesday in May if 8 the Majority Leader of the Senate and the 9 Speaker so certify." 10 My question is, what if they 11 don't? What if one or the other doesn't; what 12 happens? 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: What we have 14 done deliberately here, as you know, we took 15 out all the language dealing with the joint 16 and concurrent resolution. We are 17 establishing, Senator, a new process that has 18 the commission making recommendations, and so 19 forth, and what we have done basically is for 20 good or bad and you might -- is for the 21 leaders, both the Speaker and the Majority 22 Leader, to work through that process so that 23 we can reach agreement on a -- on a candidate 24 that would be coming from the commission, and 25 would have undergone legislative hearings. 1 And I say, you know, the 2 question that comes in here, there's some 3 language on -- if you look, it talks about the 4 first -- the first Tuesday, if that conflicts 5 with a religious observance, so that's where 6 the conflict comes in. It's not the same 7 process of what it is today. If we don't 8 reach agreement by concurrent resolution on 9 the first Tuesday, then we go to the second, 10 the second Tuesday in March, by joint 11 resolution. 12 We've taken that language out, 13 but we wanted to provide in case there was a 14 religious observance problem. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 16 Senator Lachman. 17 SENATOR LACHMAN: Mr. 18 President, on the issue. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 20 Senator Lachman, on the bill. 21 SENATOR LACHMAN: First, I 22 would like to share my colleagues' opinion of 23 the distinguished chairman of the Higher 24 Education Committee. I've worked with him now 25 for the last two and a half years, and he's a 1 very thoughtful committed person, for the 2 betterment of education in New York State. 3 But I'd like to, if I may, take 4 the discussion out of this context and put it 5 into another context, and that is what is the 6 best possible method and selection of Regents 7 and commissioners of education that could best 8 serve all the school children of the state of 9 New York? 10 Now, there are two or three 11 possibilities for context. One is the 12 national context, and that's a little bit 13 confusing, I admit. There are five different 14 patterns in the United States within the 50 15 states. There's model one, which is adopted by 16 13 states, where the governor appoints the 17 Regents and the Regents then appoint the 18 commissioner of education. 19 Then there is a model, another 20 model, model two, where there is the direct 21 election of a state commissioner of education, 22 for example, as in the largest state in the 23 union, in the state of California, and the 24 governor appoints the members of the Regents. 25 Then there's model three with eight states 1 where the Regents are elected, and they, in 2 turn, appoint the state commissioner of 3 education without it -- without any input from 4 the governor, and there's a fourth pattern, 5 where the governor appoints both the Regents 6 and the state commissioner of education, and 7 then there are ten states where there is no 8 pattern, and New York State fits into that 9 pattern where we in the state Legislature 10 appoint the Regents and the Regents appoint 11 the state Commissioner of Education. 12 Now, for many years I have been 13 thinking in a theoretical sense whether this 14 results in the best possible education for the 15 school children of the state of New York. Can 16 we improve upon the selection process so that 17 all children receive a better education? 18 Now, I would first, before even 19 considering such a bill, Senator, especially 20 the day before the selection of the members of 21 the state Board of Regents, of two new 22 members, consider another bill that you are in 23 favor of, and I am in favor of, and that is 24 the creation of an independent management 25 study of the organization of the Board of 1 Regents and the entire state Education 2 Department. 3 I think that what we're doing 4 today would be in a sense putting the cart 5 before the horse. I would be in favor of the 6 bill that would have an independent management 7 study of the entire state Education 8 Department, including the selection of the 9 state Board of Regents, and the selection of 10 the state Commissioner of Education. 11 I can not at this point support 12 your bill, Senator LaValle, though I know its 13 good intentions. I hope that in the future, 14 we will be able to have a good independent 15 management study of education in the state of 16 New York, through the structure that brings 17 about this education, the state Education 18 Department and the Board of Regents, and then 19 perhaps consider a variant version of the bill 20 under discussion. 21 So I will have to vote against 22 the current bill. 23 Thank you. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 25 Senator Dollinger. 1 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 I rise -- I voted for this bill 4 in the past, but I think I may change my mind, 5 and the reason why I think I may change my 6 mind is that the discussion today about the 7 injection of politics into the election of the 8 Board of Regents, it seems to me, if we do 9 what Senator LaValle wants, won't we be just 10 in exactly the same position that we're now in 11 with respect to the budget, that we need 12 agreement of all the houses and the Governor 13 before we can appoint anyone? Won't the 14 deadline in early March become as illusory as 15 the deadline in April? Won't the budget - 16 won't who sits on the Board of Regents become 17 subject to the exact same political pressures 18 as to how much money goes in the budget? 19 I'm astounded to some extent to 20 hear Senator LaValle say you can't get minutes 21 of the Board of Regents. The only thing they 22 do in this state is determine educational 23 policy. We can't get minutes of the Majority 24 Conference and you're going to whack up $72 25 billion of the people's money. We don't get 1 minutes of that. We are the members of the 2 Minority; we don't get the minutes. We don't 3 know what that debate is. We don't see what 4 goes on. We're not privy to it. You exclude 5 us from that. 6 You're not, Senator -- with all 7 due respect when you stand here and say we 8 have to empower every single Senator, I wasn't 9 empowered enough to get my name on a bill that 10 I wrote, that I drafted, that I did all the 11 work on, that I got all the support memos for, 12 that I got the city of Rochester to support, 13 that I got the County of Monroe to support. I 14 couldn't get on the bill. That's how much 15 power I have in this chamber. 16 So when you have that members 17 of the Republican Majority need to be 18 empowered in the selection of the Board of 19 Regents, and the reason why they aren't is 20 because someone had the foresight in creating 21 this statute, they had the foresight to say 22 there will be a day when the Senate will be 23 controlled by one party, the Assembly will be 24 controlled by another and they said, we can 25 not allow the political dispute between the 1 two houses to imperil the independent thinking 2 of the Board of Regents. So there's only one 3 way to resolve it. We create a unicameral 4 legislature, bring them all together, and 5 whichever party has the majority of the 211 6 members of the combined houses will then be 7 politically accountable to the Board of 8 Regents. 9 It is the only vote every year, 10 Senator, in which I am held accountable, and 11 this Board of Regents, quite frankly, has 12 appointed a stupendous education commissioner 13 who's driving home the debate about improving 14 the standards, who is talking about improving 15 the quality of urban education, vitally 16 important to me that represents three-quarters 17 of the city of Rochester, I'm enormously proud 18 that the people that I've elected had the 19 wisdom to pick an independent, far thinking, 20 visionary Commissioner of Education to lead 21 educational reform in this state. I'm willing 22 to be politically accountable for that. From 23 my point of view, it is all that I am 24 politically accountable for. It's the one 25 time my vote matters; but to take the vision 1 of fashioning this statute years ago which 2 anticipated that there would be a deadlock and 3 realize that the only way to make a timely 4 decision and preserve the independence of the 5 board was to create a unicameral legislature 6 for one moment and allow the political process 7 to run its course, allow one political party 8 to be entirely responsible for the Board of 9 Regents, instead of having this fractured 10 accountability that we had even on the budget, 11 Senator LaValle, who knows in this state who's 12 at fault for late budgets in the last ten 13 years. 14 I'll give any political pundit 15 in this state a guess as to who's responsible, 16 and the answer is Democrats say it's 17 Republicans. Republicans say it's Democrats. 18 If you're in the Legislature, it's the 19 Governor, if you're in the Executive, it's the 20 Legislature. We have divided accountability. 21 We don't know who's calling the shots and 22 instead we have this one little absolute 23 accountability built into our state Board of 24 Regents in which the party that happens to 25 have a majority of the 211 members in both 1 houses is completely politically accountable 2 for the decisions by the Board of Regents, for 3 who sits on it and for even who they appoint 4 as the commissioner. 5 With all due respect to Senator 6 LaValle, I understand why this bill flows, but 7 the suggestion that somehow we should take the 8 politics out, that what we would, in essence, 9 do if we adopted this bill, we would make the 10 politics of the Board of Regents no more than 11 trading off a prison in upstate New York, no 12 more than trading off pork barrel spending in 13 some other part of the state. It would become 14 wrapped up in the massive politics of spending 15 our $72 billion each year. 16 The Board of Regents, the 17 future of education, the independence of 18 education demands, I believe, that we keep 19 what we've got. It's the one true accountable 20 part of our system that seems to be working, 21 and I would just suggest I've voted for it in 22 the past, but I -- I can't continue to. I see 23 this system as working and it does have 24 political accountability attached to it, and I 25 think we ought to keep it. 1 There will come a day, Senator 2 LaValle, as I'm sure there has been in the 3 past in this state in which the majority of 4 the 211 members of this Legislature will have 5 "Republican" next to their name instead of 6 "Democrat". Then you will be empowered to be 7 a majority in this one little tiny bit of 8 state government in which you are not 9 currently in a majority and in which your 10 sentiments, well expressed on this floor, have 11 been echoed by many members of this side of 12 the aisle for years and years and years and as 13 recently as last week when all the work that I 14 did was taken away from me for one simple 15 fact: I wasn't a Republican. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. 19 This act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 21 Senator LaValle. 22 SENATOR LAVALLE: May I have my 23 name called for purposes of explaining my 24 vote. I'd like to explain my vote. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 1 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR LAVALLE: Just very 3 briefly, if those members who were talking 4 about a unicameral system, have a liking for a 5 unicameral system, then they must amend the 6 state Constitution. 7 I vote in the affirmative. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 13 President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Senator Leichter, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: I also voted 17 for this bill last year because I think, 18 frankly, there are provisions in there that I 19 think are excellent, but I must say, Senator 20 LaValle, I don't know whether the timing last 21 year was the same as now, and while I know you 22 have worked on this issue and are deeply 23 committed and concerned about improving the 24 Regents, the timing and the provisions in here 25 really came from politics. Really the thing 1 that you say you're trying to avoid is 2 politicizing the Regents. It's obvious that 3 that's what you're doing, and this bill is 4 tainted because you put in this one provision 5 where you require both the approval of the 6 Speaker and the Majority Leader before the two 7 houses can convene, and Senator Dollinger is 8 absolutely correct. You want to paralyze the 9 selection of the Regents as we've paralyzed 10 the budget, and all of it is really ill grace 11 on the part of the Majority. They can't walk 12 in a room where they don't call the shots. 13 You should be there. You're 14 the chairman of Higher Education, and I think 15 you've got an obligation to be there, to be 16 part of that process even though, Senator, 17 you're not in the majority, and that's why I 18 can't really support the bill this year. Put 19 in a bill at another time, in June, when this 20 issue isn't before us. Do it in an honest, 21 non-political way and we'll support those good 22 provisions that are in there; but right now 23 this bill is badly tainted. 24 I vote no. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 1 Senator Leichter will be recorded in the 2 negative, and the Chair failed to note Senator 3 LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative. 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Those - 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those reported 11 in the negative on Calendar Number 62 are 12 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, 13 Gentile, Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, 14 Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, Rosado, Sampson, 15 Santiago, Seabrook, Smith, Stachowski, 16 Stavisky, also Senators Gold, Kruger and 17 Oppenheimer. Ayes 34, nays 21. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR GOLD: I want to make 22 an inquiry of the Chair, Mr. President. 23 Mr. President, it's my 24 understanding that on March 4th, Phil Simms of 25 the Senate desk, signed for Assembly 1 Resolution 1660, and that earlier today there 2 might have been a miscommunication between the 3 desk and the Lieutenant Governor, perhaps I 4 have added to the confusion, and I take 5 responsibility but I just wanted to verify at 6 this point whether or not that resolution is 7 in the house. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 9 I believe we're on the controversial 10 calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 14 continue, and then there is a more appropriate 15 time for Senator Gold to get up and make his 16 request. 17 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 18 I've made an inquiry of the Chair. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 20 Secretary will read. 21 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Senator Gold, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, on an 25 inquiry of the Chair. I think it's 1 appropriate to make an inquiry of the Chair. 2 Are you ruling that I'm out of order? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes. 4 SENATOR GOLD: Appeal the 5 ruling of the Chair. Slow roll call. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 7 question is -- the question before the house 8 is, shall the ruling of the Chair be 9 overruled? An affirmative vote is to overrule 10 the ruling of the Chair. A negative vote is 11 to uphold the ruling of the Chair. 12 The Secretary will call the 13 roll. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 15 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 17 SENATOR ALESI: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Balboni. 20 SENATOR BALBONI: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Breslin. 23 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno. 25 (There was no audible 1 response.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Connor. 4 (There was no audible 5 response.) 6 Senator Cook. 7 SENATOR COOK: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 DeFrancisco. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Dollinger. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Farley. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Nay. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Gentile. 18 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, 21 to explain my vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Senator Gold, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR GOLD: And with my 25 apologies to the members on this side and to 1 most of the members on the other side, but it 2 just shows you. We can have our differences, 3 and certainly Senator LaValle and I have 4 differences on philosophical issues, but I 5 certainly have a great respect for that 6 gentleman. We can have our differences, but 7 when one of the parts of this bicameral 8 legislature passes a resolution, sends it over 9 here, has it signed for by the clerk's office, 10 and then I gather out of fear of the fact that 11 the Majority Leader might not want to have it 12 'fessed up that the document is here, that we 13 go through this charade of ignoring that it's 14 in existence. That's what causes this. 15 Now, I was informed that 16 earlier today when I made the inquiry, perhaps 17 the wrong answer was given. So I figured 18 let's at least straighten it out. That would 19 have taken probably eight seconds. Reminds me 20 of an incident a week or so ago when something 21 could have been done in a right way and we 22 would have been out of there in about 30 23 seconds, but someone on your side insists all 24 the time on wasting your time and that's O.K. 25 with me as long as each and every one of you 1 understands who causes the waste of time, and 2 I appreciate, by the way, the comments made to 3 me by many of you a week or so ago when that 4 incident happened, understanding very much who 5 causes the problems in this house. I 6 appreciated the comments that my Republican 7 colleagues made. 8 So, Mr. President, I'm sorry 9 you're put in the situation because we all 10 understand the politics of this house. It's a 11 shame that we couldn't get a simple answer as 12 to whether or not the resolution was here, and 13 I vote yes to overrule the Chair. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Senator Gold will be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 The Secretary will continue to 18 read the roll. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Gonzalez. 21 (There was no response.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Goodman. 24 SENATOR GOODMAN: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Hannon. 2 SENATOR HANNON: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Hoffmann. 5 (There was no response. ) 6 Senator Holland. 7 SENATOR HOLLAND: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Johnson. 10 SENATOR JOHNSON: Nay. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Kruger. 13 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 15 SENATOR KUHL: Nay. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Lachman. 18 SENATOR LACHMAN: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 20 SENATOR LACK: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Larkin. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator 25 LaValle. 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Leibell. 4 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Leichter. 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Libous. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Maltese. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Marcellino. 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Marchi. 18 SENATOR MARCHI: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Markowitz. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Maziarz. 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 25 SENATOR MEIER: No. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Mendez. 3 (There was no response. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez 5 excused. 6 Senator Montgomery. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Nanula. 10 SENATOR NANULA: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Nozzolio. 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan 21 excused. 22 Senator Paterson. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 24 President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 1 Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 3 President, I hope the record will reflect that 4 on March - 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 6 Senator, do you wish to explain your vote? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Senator Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 11 President, on March the 7th of 1995, I 12 inquired of the Chair as to whether or not 13 they had received a message from the Assembly 14 almost exactly similar to the message that was 15 transferred today. The message that year was 16 delivered on March the 6th, and after some 17 long discussion, it was acknowledged by the 18 temporary or Acting Temporary President, 19 Senator Kuhl, that the message was received. 20 That took an hour. 21 In 1996, and 1997 we had 22 similar inquiries by myself and Senator Gold 23 about this same one message which somehow 24 managed to elude the Chair for three years. 25 Now, on the fourth year, which 1 is just now, I again made this inquiry today, 2 and again Senator Gold asked, and I think 3 quite admirably, as to whether or not we could 4 locate this particular message. So I think 5 just the transcripts from this session would 6 demonstrate that in four years now, it seems 7 very difficult to get the acknowledgement of a 8 message from the Assembly which, in the 9 present case, we've even brought forth the 10 actual document signed by someone in the 11 Journal Clerk's office receiving 12 acknowledgement, and all I think Senator Gold 13 was trying to get was a receipt of the -- of 14 the actual message from the Assembly, an 15 acknowledgement that it was actually received. 16 Now, in spite of whatever other 17 disagreements we might have, this was 18 something that was delivered. It was 19 delivered by our colleagues, and even if there 20 are members of this chamber who, for their own 21 reasons which I will accept, choose not to 22 respond to the message, still we are obligated 23 as colleagues and as professionals to 24 acknowledge the actions of our colleagues in 25 the Assembly. 1 We could have truncated this 2 entire process simply by acknowledging it even 3 if we don't agree with it and, for that 4 reason, I'm going to have to support Senator 5 Gold's motion to appeal the the ruling of the 6 Chair with an affirmative vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Senator Paterson will be recorded in the 9 affirmative. 10 Continue the reading of the 11 roll. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Present. 14 SENATOR PRESENT: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 16 SENATOR RATH: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Rosado. 19 SENATOR ROSADO: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 21 SENATOR SALAND: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Sampson. 24 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Santiago. 2 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Seabrook. 5 SENATOR SEABROOK: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Seward. 8 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Skelos. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 13 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 15 SENATOR SPANO: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Stachowski. 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 19 President, explain my vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 21 Senator Stachowski. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I wasn't 23 planning on saying anything, but David in 24 speaking of the history of some of these 25 resolutions reminds me of the fact that, in 1 one of these processes I fell on the wrath of 2 Mary Carey, because she happened to be the 3 person who signed for it, and I'm just glad 4 that Mary Carey isn't the one who signed for 5 it this year. 6 I vote yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Senator Stachowski will be recorded in the 9 affirmative. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Stafford. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Stavisky. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Trunzo. 18 SENATOR TRUNZO: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Velella. 21 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. 22 President, to explain my vote. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 24 Senator Velella. 25 SENATOR VELELLA: Mr. 1 President, I've been here 12 years, and in the 2 time that I've been here, I believe that 3 everybody has had the opportunity to access 4 the floor and have their questions answered. 5 Senator Gold's answer will be 6 forthcoming in due time. The issue here is 7 who wastes the time. Bringing up an issue, 8 Senator Gold, at roll call of the calendar and 9 asking for special treatment is out of order. 10 You will be treated in due course like every 11 other Senator, and your question will be 12 answered at the appropriate time. We're not 13 going to give you any special treatment. 14 I think the Chair was 15 right in ruling him out of order. I vote 16 against the motion. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 18 Senator Velella will be recorded in the 19 negative. 20 Resume the reading of the 21 roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Volker. 24 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon 1 excused. 2 Senator Wright. 3 SENATOR WRIGHT: No. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 5 the absentees. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Dollinger. 8 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Gonzalez. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 Senator Hoffmann. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 Senator Maltese. 15 (There was no response. ) 16 Ayes 22, nays 32. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 motion to overrule the Chair is defeated. The 19 ruling of the Chair is upheld. 20 The Secretary will continue to 21 read the controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 63, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 303-A, an 24 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 25 the Board of Regents of the University of the 1 State of New York. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 3 Explanation. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 5 Senator LaValle, an explanation has been asked 6 by Senator Dollinger. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 8 President. 9 SENATOR LAVALLE: In my 10 explanation on the first bill, maybe Senator 11 Dollinger was out of the room. 12 This bill really moves - 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I 14 apologize. 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: -- moves the 16 election process to the third Tuesday in May. 17 That's basically what it does, Senator. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 20 the last section. 21 Sorry, Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 23 President. If Senator LaValle would yield for 24 a question. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 1 Senator LaValle, do you yield for a question 2 from Senator Paterson? 3 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 5 Senator. 6 In attempting to comprehend 7 what this section would do, it occurs to me 8 that, if I could paraphrase what I believe you 9 were trying to accomplish in the bill, you're 10 saying that where we are with two houses of 11 the Legislature unable to agree in this 12 situation on candidates to accede to the Board 13 of Regents, that you would rather force the 14 two houses to work this situation out, rather 15 than to have a joint session of the two houses 16 in order to resolve the issue by voting as one 17 overall body. 18 SENATOR LAVALLE: That -- that 19 is correct, Senator, and it's consistent with 20 the first bill that we debated, for what this 21 bill really does and the reason we moved it as 22 a separate bill is it really gets to the 23 question of when the selection process should 24 be and, as I had indicated, to do it, you 25 know, in March when we're trying to 1 contemplate and resolve budget issues, the 2 issues of selection of Regents are too 3 important to be doing in March, so it should 4 be done in May. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, I 6 agree with that, Senator, and I would say that 7 a greater amount of this bill reflects a 8 tremendous amount of research and a lot of 9 common sense on the subject, and I commend you 10 for putting together this work. I'm just 11 curious as to why in the current bill, the one 12 we're discussing, there is absolutely no 13 mention in the previous bill, the one Calendar 14 62, which we prev... just discussed, it does 15 at least outline the procedure, but here it 16 just says that the Regents will be elected. 17 It doesn't really say that it would occur by a 18 unicameral legislative -- legislature or even 19 by a bicameral, doesn't say anything on the 20 subject, and with the amount of work that 21 you've put into it, there had to be a reason. 22 There couldn't be an omission. I wanted to 23 know what the reason was. 24 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I 25 think the intent is the same which is that 1 what we're saying here is that the leaders 2 really are going to work out that process. 3 Now, that was the same 4 discussion that we had on the previous bill. 5 Maybe, you know, as I had indicated again and 6 again, the bicameral nature that is in our 7 Constitution, how we should resolve disputes 8 between the -- between the houses in a 9 bicameral nature, not a unicameral nature. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Senator Paterson. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 13 President, if Senator LaValle would continue 14 to yield. 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 17 Senator yield? Senator continues to yield. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 19 hope you'll understand how I'm actually 20 phrasing this. We may actually disagree on 21 some of the merit of this, but here I'm just 22 talking about some of the technical 23 construction of the bill. 24 It would seem to me that if you 25 were trying to alleviate a process, if you 1 were trying to change something that already 2 existed, that you have would have listed 3 specifically in both pieces of legislation 4 what you were trying to do. This was an issue 5 that I took up last week with another 6 colleague on a similar bill that, in order to 7 make something clear, we are pretty much 8 compelled to put our true interest in writing 9 so in this current bill, where you say that 10 the Legislature will elect the Board of 11 Regents, you don't indicate which legislature 12 it is. You've indicated it in the previous 13 bill, but I would suggest that if somebody 14 didn't like the process that you now have 15 passed two laws, one almost seems to affirm 16 the law that's previously existing, the other 17 in your previous bill demonstrates that you 18 have a new idea as to how to resolve this 19 problem. 20 I just don't think that this 21 bill should go into law having any ambiguity 22 even if we disagree on what the final intent 23 of your legislation is. 24 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator, I 25 think it's consistent with the Constitution, 1 constitutional provisions on the selection of 2 the Board of Regents, that you know, allows 3 the Legislature, which is what we're doing 4 here. I chose not to spell out as the 5 existing 202 of the Education Law does, by 6 establishing a specific procedure that talks 7 about a concurrent resolution being passed on 8 the first Tuesday in March. If no such 9 agreement is reached, then it is done by joint 10 -- by a joint session. 11 I have removed that because I 12 said it is violative of constitutional 13 provisions calling for a bicameral 14 legislature, and yes, I have not spelled it 15 out in detail. I have said that is for the 16 Legislature to work out. 17 Now, some may feel that by 18 having the Legislature work out a methodology 19 between the Speaker and the Majority Leader, 20 that that could move us in a direction of 21 deadlock, but at least it is providing a 22 system that is consistent with our 23 constitutional underpinnings. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you. 25 Mr. President, I just have one last question 1 for Senator LaValle, if he is willing to 2 yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Senator LaValle, do you yield for another 5 question? 6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Yes, sir. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I'm 10 almost slightly confused by the discrepancy in 11 the two bills. I guess my question to you is 12 conceivably if a Speaker and a Majority Leader 13 down the road decided that they liked the 14 unicameral voting system for the Board of 15 Regents, would they be able to conduct one 16 after this bill passed? In other words, is 17 this bill of sufficient strength to actually 18 overrule the process that you are loathe to 19 accept at this time by the passage of this - 20 of this law? 21 You can say that you -- that 22 it's consistent with what has been 23 constitutional, but tradition and practice for 24 a number of years have created the situation 25 and also part of Section 202 of the Education 1 Law have created the scenario where we have 2 had this method of choosing Regents. 3 So my -- my question simply to 4 you is, does this particular bill that you 5 pass cure this condition, other than the fact 6 that you have an interpretation of how the 7 Constitution should be read at this time? Have 8 you put anything in this bill because when you 9 say the Legislature, I don't see how that's 10 inconsistent with how it's being done right 11 now, and I'm not talking about constitution 12 ality. I'm talking about the law as it will be 13 passed when we leave this chamber today. 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: I would just 15 continue, Senator, giving you the same answer 16 I've given you before, that leaders would have 17 under this legislation time to work out what 18 is a legal and constitutional system to select 19 Regents and, you know, my own feeling and from 20 the philosophical standpoint and the legal 21 standpoint, is that we have a flawed system 22 and because it has continued, as you have 23 indicated, by custom and tradition doesn't 24 necessarily make it legally right. 25 I mean they'll -- those are 1 questions for courts to resolve, certainly not 2 your aye on this floor. We might have our own 3 opinions, but it is for the court to resolve 4 the legal appropriateness or the constitution 5 ality of these issues. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: I want to 9 thank Senator LaValle for his gracious 10 responses to my questions. I'd now like to 11 address the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 13 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 14 SENATOR PATERSON: I don't know 15 that I totally agree with everything that 16 Senator LaValle said relating to the process 17 that we've used now, but I understand. I 18 understand that perhaps some time a long time 19 ago, somebody wrote into the law that where 20 there would not be an agreement between the 21 two houses of the Legislature, that perhaps 22 the best way to resolve it was to put 23 everybody in the same room, give everybody one 24 vote and let them choose who the Regents would 25 be, and I cannot rule out a possibility that 1 whoever wrote that law knew at the time that 2 they wrote the law that they had the votes to 3 pass on whichever Regent they would presume 4 should accede to the board. 5 What I am -- what I'm 6 questioning with the passage of this 7 legislation is its clarity because even if 8 there is custom and tradition that Senator 9 LaValle was talking about, if I were trying to 10 remove it, I would make it crystal clear since 11 this has obviously been an ambiguous point 12 with the Legislature, regardless of party 13 affiliation and that it has continued for a 14 number of years. 15 So, therefore, if Senator 16 LaValle was seeking equity, I think that 17 perhaps there is some fairness to the argument 18 that both houses really stand pretty much on 19 their own under the Constitution as it stands 20 now. 21 What is very troubling about 22 this legislation, both bills really, is that 23 the Board of Regents as it would be 24 constructed, would start with an appointment 25 of its chair and its vice-chair coming from 1 the Governor's office, which I think probably 2 diminishes from the perception that fairnesses 3 are trying to be established through the 4 passage of this bill. 5 This clearly would give 6 preference to a party regardless of who the 7 governor is, in effecting that actual choice 8 and in boards of similar nature it has always 9 been far more constitutional to let the 10 members of the board elect their chair rather 11 than to have a preset order established from 12 the outset of the -- of the process. 13 And so, for that reason, I 14 would encourage a negative vote on this bill, 15 and it's really unfortunate, because the 16 greater information that it provides and the 17 changes that it produces, I think will enure 18 to the benefit of the selection process, 19 particularly delaying the vote two months 20 until after our constitutionally mandated 21 budgetary period has elapsed. 22 But unfortunately, it -- the 23 lack of clarity on some of the issues and 24 then, in my opinion, a clear preference to 25 whichever party would control the Executive 1 Mansion at the time of any Regents vote, 2 causes me to have to vote against the bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Senator Cook. 5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 6 think just a word of comment on one of the 7 issues that's been raised which is the 8 bicameral nature of the Legislature, and the 9 language that's currently in the statute. 10 I think we should remember that 11 that language predates a certain court 12 decision. That court decision was the one 13 that made the Senate really a less than an 14 equal partner in the process of selection of 15 the Regent, and that is in the one man-one 16 vote decisions relating to the apportionment 17 of the Legislature in 1964, the courts clearly 18 held that legislative districts in both houses 19 had to be according to the population of the 20 districts in the voting of political 21 committees for the endorsements of 22 candidates. 23 The courts have held that you 24 don't vote in each committee person but rather 25 that each committee person casts a number of 1 votes that are equal to the number of persons 2 who voted in that particular election district 3 in the previous election, and yet when they 4 came to the decision about the Senate voting 5 for Regent, they made the determination that, 6 in fact, we should have the same number of 7 votes as other people who represent 125,000 8 people, even though we only represent 300,000 9 people in this house. 10 So I think that the -- the 11 point that Senator LaValle is making, that 12 this is an attempt to restore the bicameral 13 nature of the Regent selection process is 14 right on the point and that it was not, in 15 fact, the previous legislation that created 16 the problem but rather the court 17 interpretation some years ago, I think about 18 20 years ago now, of how the voting was to 19 take place that really created the problem. 20 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 22 Senator Gold. 23 SENATOR GOLD: Mr. President, a 24 number of years ago -- and you'll see how many 25 years ago in a minute -- one of our very 1 distinguished colleagues by the name of John 2 D. Calandra, who I loved very much, offered a 3 bill that would redo the way Civil Court 4 districts were to be done in the city of New 5 York and, as I looked at the bill, I could 6 predict who was going to vote which way and my 7 distinguished predecessor of blessed memory in 8 this particular seat, Senator Galiber, I knew 9 would vote for the bill and I knew that there 10 was another member, for example, in the Bronx 11 who was going to vote against it, and somebody 12 said, Well, how do you know? Well, you didn't 13 have to be a mind reader. Senator Galiber's 14 district gained some judges and some other 15 district lost some judges. It wasn't difficult 16 to figure out how people were going to vote. 17 We have a new member in this 18 house, Assemblyman Balboni, and I'm sure if 19 you want to spend some nice time with a very 20 fine young gentleman, have a cup of coffee 21 with him and ask him questions to which you 22 are going to know the answers, whether he 23 enjoys being in the majority here more than he 24 enjoys being in the minority in the other 25 house, and, Senator Cook, that's what this is 1 really all about and everybody knows it. 2 So why do we try to dignify it? 3 Why do we try to dignify it? The fact of the 4 matter is that ever since the court decision 5 you're talking about and before that court 6 decision, the members of the majority in this 7 house hated -- they hated -- as a matter of 8 fact, I don't want to ruin anybody's day but 9 one of the reasons I'm going to enjoy tomorrow 10 is because I know that there are people on 11 your side of the aisle who hate it. It adds 12 to my joy, and not only I enjoy it for the 13 positive, I enjoy it for the negative, 14 suddenly something that's giving me a delight 15 in doing the things that the statute says I 16 should do, electing a good Regent, but the 17 fact that you guys hate it makes it that much 18 more wonderful for me. 19 Matter of fact, if you 20 acknowledged that there was an Assembly 21 resolution that passed, if you acknowledged 22 that this is the process and what the heck, 23 it's one for the Gipper, I think that would 24 take away some of my enjoyment, so I don't 25 want anybody in the Majority to think that 1 these exercises that you're going through 2 today are causing us pain. They're not. It's 3 just -- it just amplifies the joy we will have 4 tomorrow. 5 Now, this bill, I'm going to 6 vote against because it really does nothing 7 more than create chaos. Now, if I was going 8 to lose a vote, I guess I'd rather have chaos 9 than a straight-out law. That's more fun. 10 Senator LaValle, you are 11 absolutely right that it ought to be May. 12 Nobody is arguing with you there. It really 13 ought to be May, and it -- you may even be 14 right in terms of narrowing the process and 15 it's a shame, unfortunately, as Senator 16 Leichter said in a very, very distinguished 17 manner earlier, that it comes up in the vein 18 of the politics of today and tomorrow, but I 19 would tell you that in voting no today, and in 20 seeing how the Majority in this house have 21 spent the whole day squirming and arguing to 22 get out of what is the inevitability of 23 tomorrow, I can tell you on behalf of myself 24 and probably Senator Leichter and many others, 25 you've done nothing more than amplify our joy 1 tomorrow. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 5 Senator Dollinger. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 I understand Senator LaValle's 9 attempt to give new meaning to bicameralism, 10 to restore bicameralism in this state, with 11 respect to the Board of Regents. I agree with 12 Senator Gold's comments about why it's being 13 done, but let me offer a slightly different 14 perspective. 15 What I would suggest here that 16 the anachronism is not the way we elect the 17 Board of Regents. The anachronism is that 18 we're still wedded to the issue of 19 bicameralism. In the wake, as Senator Cook 20 pointed out -- in the wake of one man-one vote 21 as Senator Cook pointed out, we now have two 22 people in favor of it. We have a bicameral 23 head -- bicameral had no meaning, none -- and 24 if bicameralism was designed to protect the 25 integrity of states and protect small states 1 from big states, the Senate in the state of 2 New York represents no one with any different 3 interest than the members of the Assembly, and 4 I would suggest to you that what we're really 5 doing by preserving, as you point out, in this 6 bill the concept of bicameralism, we're giving 7 continued life to a political dinosaur that 8 causes political confusion and is a recipe for 9 political deadlock. 10 If we really wanted to do the 11 radical thing, we wouldn't change the way we 12 elect the Board of Regents. We'd give these 13 people one person one vote per representative 14 and we'd abolish the true anachronism 15 bicameralism. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 19 This act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the 23 roll. ) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 25 the results. 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 2 in the negative on Calendar Number 63 are 3 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, 4 Leichter, Montgomery, Nanula, Onorato, 5 Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, Seabrook, Smith, 6 Stachowski and Stavisky. Ayes 41, nays 15. 7 Also Senator Gold. Ayes 40, nays 16. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 bill is passed. 10 Senator Paterson. 11 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 12 President, with unanimous consent, I'd like to 13 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 14 62, the bill that immediately preceded this 15 one. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 17 Without objection, Senator Paterson will be 18 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 19 62. 20 The Secretary will resume the 21 reading of the controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 225, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 454, an 24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 25 validity of a license to possess or carry a 1 pistol within the state. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Did he ask 4 for an explanation? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, 6 Senator Holland. Yes, an explanation has been 7 requested. 8 SENATOR HOLLAND: I'm sure 9 Senator Gold and every other member of this 10 house is well aware of this bill that has been 11 on the floor for many years. It is a bill 12 about fairness and equality. It is a bill 13 that allows people who have a pistol license 14 to carry it statewide; that is, as is 15 currently the law, anybody who is issued a 16 pistol license in any of the counties other 17 than the city of New York cannot carry it in 18 the city of New York, but if they're issued a 19 pistol license in the city of New York, they 20 can carry it in any other county. It is 21 simply a question of fairness and equality and 22 whether people who are issued pistol licenses 23 can carry it statewide. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 25 Senator Paterson. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator - 2 Mr. President, on the bill. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 5 SENATOR PATERSON: The mayor of 6 the city of New York is opposed to the bill as 7 are the two mayors who have preceded him. 8 Their legislation, and their efforts over the 9 past 10 years, has reduced crime significantly 10 in that area and one of the major efforts 11 that's been made, one of the ones that former 12 Mayor Koch used to do public service 13 announcements on, one that was incorporated 14 into the Safe Streets-Safe City of Mayor 15 Dinkins and one which is a priority of Mayor 16 Giuliani, who is a Republican mayor of the 17 city of New York, is the strictest adherence 18 to strong gun laws, and the desire to control 19 the issue, and to control the territory as 20 much as possible. 21 Now, if this legislation was 22 one that other counties in the -- in the state 23 choose to adhere to, then we're certainly 24 pleased with that, but the message we're 25 really sending from New York City, that of the 1 mayor, that which is bipartisan and coming 2 from the police department, all the police 3 commissioners in the last 15 years, and also 4 all of the appropriate law enforcement 5 authorities in New York City, is we don't want 6 anyone coming into New York City with guns 7 that are not licensed by the city. 8 We have a stronger protection 9 system in the City. We feel we have a large 10 population to try to control and at times a 11 great amount of difficulty doing that. We've 12 been successful. This would, in no way, 13 assist our effort. We feel that the 14 cooperation of those outside the city who are 15 licensed to practice guns, as are your 16 neighbors in the state, would be important to 17 us, and we wish that they would respect the 18 way we, Republicans and Democrats, law 19 enforcement personnel and just private 20 citizens feel in the City and not pass this 21 legislation and let New York City exercise in 22 those five counties the option to have tougher 23 gun laws. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 25 President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 4 President, I first want to -- I don't know, 5 thank you, Senator Holland, for bringing up 6 the bill year after year and Gene Levy, a 7 pleasant memory used to bring it before, but 8 as we look at the calendar, I mean, we have 9 all these retreads coming up. I was just 10 thinking, on a Monday afternoon, if I didn't 11 have all the chestnuts that get voted on every 12 year, never go anywhere -- I don't know - 13 what would I do, Monday afternoon or Tuesday 14 afternoon or Wednesday afternoon? Maybe, my 15 goodness, the Senate might even address issues 16 like school overcrowding or maybe we'd hold 17 hearings on the fact why this state is doing 18 so poorly in job growth compared to other 19 states. Maybe we would address issues of 20 court consolidation instead of waiting at the 21 last minute. Maybe we would have some 22 hearings that would move the budget process 23 along, but fortunately our days can be filled 24 with voting on bills that have been rejected 25 time and time and time again and we can go 1 over the same old tired debate. 2 So I don't want to be accused 3 of not playing along and just sitting here, 4 Senator Holland, and I'm making the arguments 5 I used to make to you over the years. Well, 6 Senator, you bring up the bill, you'll hear 7 the arguments. If you rise to ask a question, 8 I'll certainly yield. 9 SENATOR HOLLAND: I would 10 prefer to make my own statement after you've 11 finished. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. Well, 13 I don't know. You're standing a little early 14 because I have a good hour of comments on this 15 bill at least. No, you can keep standing. 16 Let me just say, I just want to 17 point out that it also amuses me that somebody 18 like Senator Holland and the Republican 19 Majority, that I think more so maybe than this 20 side of the aisle, really feels that there's 21 strong differences within particular sections 22 of the state. It's a big state. We got 17 23 million people or maybe 18 million people and 24 there's obviously a difference between Montauk 25 and Niagara. There's a difference between New 1 City and New York City, and the fact of the 2 matter is that you need sometimes different 3 laws, different regulations. Not every part 4 of the state has the same laws relating to 5 speed limits. It doesn't apply. Some places 6 you can go faster and some you can go slower. 7 You have to take into account the nature of 8 the community, the density, its traditions, 9 its history, and so on. 10 So mayors of this city and as 11 was pointed out by Senator Paterson, both 12 Democrat and Republicans, police 13 commissioners, police commissioners who have 14 received national acclaim have come to this 15 Legislature and said, Look, a situation in New 16 York requires that we more carefully screen 17 people who want pistol permits or gun 18 permits. We are different than -- I come from 19 a community where I have a summer home, a 20 wonderful community represented, as you all 21 know, by Senator Stafford and very ably so, I 22 may say, but in Westport, New York, it's a 23 different thing about getting a pistol license 24 than in the city of New York. We have a 25 particular problem, particular concerns and 1 those concerns ought to be adhered to as we 2 ought to pay attention, Senator Holland -- and 3 I believe we do -- to particular requirements 4 of New City and your community, and we also do 5 this for the safety of people who come to New 6 York City carrying guns. 7 It always used to scare me - 8 and I pointed that out to my dear colleague, 9 late colleague, Gene Levy, and say how his 10 wife came to Kennedy Airport once and she 11 wanted to carry a gun. It's dangerous to 12 carry a gun in New York City. It doesn't 13 protect you. It doesn't help you to carry a 14 gun in New York City. 15 So all we say is that we ought 16 to have a right to deal with our own peculiar 17 problems, and I may say starting with the 18 administration of Mayor Dinkins, crime has 19 declined in the city of New York. Homicide 20 has declined in the city of New York. It's 21 been carried on in the administration of Mayor 22 Giuliani. We ought to be able to continue to 23 do those things that we feel are best for the 24 interests of the people of New York City and 25 those people who come into New York City, 1 Senator Holland. 2 So you want to bring this bill 3 up every year and give us something to do on 4 Monday afternoon rather than maybe address 5 some pressing issues and something that the 6 people of the state of New York really need, 7 you go ahead and do it, but I'll tell you, 8 it's an ill-thought-out bill and that's why it 9 hasn't passed into law and never will pass 10 into law, but you keep on filling up our 11 afternoons with retreads. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 13 Senator Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Never say 15 never, Senator. It will pass. It will pass 16 and you may not like it, but most of the 17 people in the state of New York do like the 18 bill and want the bill to pass and they 19 believe this should be one state instead of 20 two states. 21 New York City does have a 22 problem with guns. There's no question about 23 it, but it's not from the licensees. It's 24 illegal weapons that are causing the problem 25 in New York City. Anybody that has a license 1 is checked out by fingerprints with the FBI, 2 BCI. You know that as well as I do and there 3 are no problems caused by the people who carry 4 the weapons. 5 Most of the people other than 6 you and some of the people on your side do 7 want this bill passed, and I will continue to 8 bring it up year after year, and I urge you 9 never to say never. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 13 This act shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the 18 roll.) 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 22 Senator Montgomery. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I would 24 like my name called to explain my vote, 25 please. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote. 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 I'm going to once again vote 6 against this legislation. Number one, it 7 really will override the right of New York 8 City to have its home rule in this regard and, 9 number two, it really is legislation that will 10 ultimately result in more weapons coming into 11 New York City at a time when we are 12 desperately trying to deal with the already 13 crisis as it relates to guns and their 14 relationship to crime. 15 So we've been very fortunate in 16 the last few years that crime is subsiding. 17 We're beginning to feel a sense of security 18 and safety on our streets and in our parks and 19 in our public places, and that is to a large 20 extent because we have been quite aggressive 21 in this city to remove guns from the street 22 and so Senator Holland is really doing us a 23 gross disservice by saying that he now wants 24 the right to have citizens throughout the 25 state bring their weapons into the City and 1 override the law that we have and the mayor's 2 wish to contain that. 3 So I'm voting no, and I 4 certainly hope that every New York City 5 legislator will vote no on this in particular, 6 as well as everybody in the state. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the 10 negative. Resume - 11 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: I'm 14 sorry. Senator Dollinger. 15 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Just to 16 explain my vote on the bill. This is the vote 17 on Senator Holland's bill, is that correct, 18 because I was out of the chamber. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: That's 20 correct, Senator. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The memo 22 from the city of New York says "This bill is 23 one of several before the Legislature which, 24 if enacted, will increase the number of 25 firearms on the streets of New York City." Is 1 there anyone in this chamber who thinks that's 2 a good thing? No. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the 5 negative. Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 7 in the negative on Calendar Number 225 are 8 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, 9 Gentile, Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, 10 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Onorato, 11 Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, Santiago, 12 Seabrook, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 36, nays 13 20. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 226, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 502, an 18 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 19 administrative provisions relating to the 20 issuance of firearms licenses. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 24 This act shall take effect immediately. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Johnson, an explanation has been 3 requested. 4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 5 President, this bill amends Section 400 of the 6 Penal Law which sets forth pistol licensing 7 standards and in that law it says there are 8 two type of licenses to be issued, either 9 carry or premises, business or home premises 10 or carry. 11 Many jurisdictions throughout 12 this state are issuing their own variety of 13 licenses such as hunting or target practice, 14 security guard, carrying money in your 15 business, and so forth, but it only prescribes 16 in the law two kinds, either carry or 17 premises. 18 So the variety is only exceeded 19 by the ingenuity of the issuing officer and 20 what we're saying here is the law says you 21 issue one type or the other and my Section 2 22 (a) which I'm adding says "The licensing 23 officers shall not impose any restrictions, 24 limitations or requirements on licenses or 25 licensees other than those restrictions, 1 limitations or requirements set forth in this 2 section." 3 What we're saying is the 4 issuing officer shall obey the law when 5 issuing pistol licenses. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 9 President, I'm opposed to this piece of 10 legislation as I was opposed to the previous 11 one that we've debated. 12 If we were even going to 13 consider this kind of legislation, my problem 14 with this specifically is that it turns every 15 license, every gun license in this state into 16 a carry license. So however the -- limited 17 the license may have been intended at the time 18 it was granted, it now means that the rest of 19 the citizens around this state, and 20 particularly in New York City where the gun 21 laws are much tougher, that the license would 22 have to be upheld and honored, and we again 23 just argue that because of different 24 conditions, because of different 25 circumstances, different counties around the 1 states have different problems, I repeat again 2 there's unanimity. Our current mayor is 3 strongly opposed, as is the police 4 commissioner, to the passage of this kind of 5 legislation and as the City points out in its 6 own memo with the significant reduction in 7 crime, this type of legislation coming at this 8 time does not certainly reward any kind of 9 effort we've made not only to reduce crime but 10 to restrict guns. 11 Carried out to perhaps its 12 furthest conclusion, it would mean that people 13 could carry guns in churches and day care 14 centers or wherever they deemed it was 15 appropriate if they had a license. These are 16 some of the restrictions that New York City 17 licensing authorities observe when they make a 18 determination and it's -- I would think that 19 if someone has to use the kind of ingenuity to 20 have security guards or people who are 21 traveling with extremely sensitive merchandise 22 have to have guns, let them use the ingenuity 23 to secure the licenses through the appropriate 24 authorities rather than to the value of making 25 it easy for everybody at a time when guns are 1 particularly important. 2 I don't have any problem with 3 this legislation being introduced and 4 reintroduced because I understand the sponsor 5 sees that it's important and so, although this 6 is almost like breaking a family tradition, I 7 disagree to some extent with Senator Leichter 8 because I've never had anything to do on 9 Monday afternoons. So I'm happy to come here 10 and talk about this every year, but the 11 reality is that, although Senator Johnson and 12 Senator Holland believe in this legislation, 13 I'm glad that they keep reintroducing it to 14 further their integrity and to further mine, I 15 have to vote against it. 16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 17 President. Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR JOHNSON: I think 21 perhaps I may have misled Senator Paterson. I 22 certainly wouldn't want to do that. This 23 doesn't require everyone who wants a license 24 to get one. They still have the 25 qualifications. They have good moral 1 character, not convicted of a felony or 2 serious offense, no mental illness, and so on, 3 and so on. So there's still qualifications. 4 It would not make every license a full carry. 5 It would either be to possess by a household 6 in his dwelling or to carry. They can issue 7 either type. 8 I dare say many people in New 9 York City would feel a lot safer if they could 10 possess a weapon in their household against 11 shove-in robberies, rapists and all sort of 12 burglars who come in the night. So I think 13 New York City would probably be safer if this 14 passed. 15 As a matter of fact, they found 16 out when 31 states so far have put a right to 17 carry law out there and every one of good 18 moral character without any other 19 qualification to carry them have found 20 dramatic decreases in crime in 31 states, and 21 if that had been countrywide, there would have 22 been 1500 fewer murders, 4,000 fewer rapes, 23 60,000 fewer assaults every year if other 24 states had that law, and I'm not pushing for 25 that full carry for everyone. 1 All I'm saying is obey the 2 present law and the people who desire to have 3 weapons feel they need them would be safer and 4 our community would have fewer crimes to deal 5 with. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the 13 roll.) 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 17 Senator Dollinger. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Explain my 19 bill. I don't live in the City - 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 21 Senator Dollinger, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I don't 23 live in the city of New York as many of my 24 colleagues on this side of the aisle do, and I 25 understand that Senator Johnson doesn't live 1 in the city of New York, but I'm astounded 2 that he thinks New York would be a safer place 3 if this bill were passed and someone who calls 4 himself the mayor of the city of New York 5 submits a memo that says this will simply 6 create a public safety hazard, a mayor in the 7 city of New York and a City Council who say 8 the solution to too many guns in New York City 9 is not to add guns. 10 I would suggest, Senator 11 Johnson, if you think the city of New York 12 would be a safer place, you think this is the 13 right thing to do, move to the city of New 14 York, take this idea to the city of New York, 15 run for the City Council, get elected, get 16 elected mayor and then you can decide by the 17 people -- power given to you by the people 18 what the safe thing is for the city of New 19 York. 20 The mayor that lives there 21 currently who is elected by the people says 22 this is a bad idea. I agree with him. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 24 Senator Dollinger will be recorded in the 25 negative. Announce the results. 1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 2 in the negative on Calendar Number 226 are 3 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, 4 Gentile, Gold, Goodman, Kruger, Lachman, 5 Leichter, Markowitz, Montgomery, Nanula, 6 Onorato, Oppenheimer, Paterson, Sampson, 7 Santiago, Seabrook, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 8 35, nays 21. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 bill is passed. 11 Senator Nanula. 12 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 I would like to request 15 unanimous consent to be recorded in the 16 negative on Calendar Number 225. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: No objection. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Without objection, Senator Nanula will be 20 recorded in the negative on Calendar 225. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 280, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 306, an 23 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 24 relation to limiting plea bargaining for 25 sexual offenders. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section - 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 5 Senator Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm just 7 voting. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Okay. 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 11 This act shall take effect on the first day of 12 November. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the 16 roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 18 Senator Gold. 19 SENATOR GOLD: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 55, nays 21 1, Senator Leichter recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 23 bill is passed. 24 Senator Marcellino. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 1 President, may we return to motions and 2 resolutions for a moment? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 5 President, on behalf of Senator Alesi, on page 6 number 5, I offer the following amendments to 7 Calendar Number 40, Senate Print Number 5942, 8 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 9 Third Reading Calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 11 amendments are received. So ordered. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: And on 13 behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, on page number 14 19, I offer the following amendments to 15 Calendar Number 323, Senate Print Number 3899, 16 and ask that said bill retain its place on the 17 Third Reading Calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 19 amendments are received and so ordered. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 21 sir. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Senator Paterson. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 25 President, now that we are on motions and 1 resolutions, I think it would be appropriate 2 if I would ask right now if we ever did 3 receive the message from the Assembly about 4 the joint session of the Legislature on 5 Tuesday, March 10th. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 7 Senator Paterson. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Resolution 9 1660. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Senator Paterson, I'm advised that a copy of 12 that resolution has been received. 13 Can we return now to the 14 reading of the controversial - 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 there being no further business - 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 18 President. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: -- I move we 20 adjourn until March 10th, at 3:00 p.m. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 24 There's a motion to adjourn. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: There's a 1 motion to adjourn before the house. 2 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. 3 President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motion 5 to adjourn takes precedence on - 6 SENATOR GENTILE: Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Senator Gentile, why do you rise? 10 SENATOR GENTILE: I would just 11 ask for unanimous consent, Mr. President, to 12 be recorded in the affirmative on Calendar 13 Number 62. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Without objection. On motion, the Senate 16 stands adjourned. 17 SENATOR GOLD: No, no, no. 18 There's a motion made. Let's have a vote on 19 it. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Slow roll 21 call. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 23 motion is to adjourn. The motion is before 24 the house. All in favor signify by saying 25 aye. 1 SENATOR GOLD: Slow roll call, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 motion before the house is to adjourn. 5 The Secretary will call the 6 roll. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Abate. 8 SENATOR ABATE: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 10 Senator Alesi. 11 SENATOR ALESI: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Balboni. 14 (There was no response.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Breslin. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Bruno. 19 (Affirmative indication.) 20 Senator Connor. 21 (Negative indication.) 22 Senator Cook. 23 SENATOR COOK: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator 25 DeFrancisco. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Dollinger. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Gentile. 9 SENATOR GENTILE: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Gold. 11 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 12 President. 13 To explain my vote. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 15 Senator Gold, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR GOLD: It's amazing how 17 the lack of knowledge scares people more than 18 the events or the circumstances to which the 19 knowledge refers to. 20 My understanding, Mr. 21 President, is that all Senator Padavan - 22 Paterson, I'm sorry -- was going to do was to 23 ask that the resolution be read since that's 24 the purpose of sending a message from one 25 house to the other, was to inform it of 1 activity, and I think it's amazing that the 2 Acting Majority Leader had to quake to the 3 point of running to have a motion to adjourn 4 lest the Assembly resolution be read, which 5 it's already been done and people hear what it 6 was about, because the only language in that 7 resolution was to inform this house that the 8 Assembly did, in fact, pass a resolution 9 calling for the joint session of the 10 Legislature in conformity with the Education 11 Law, Section 202, and I think it's amazing 12 that members of the Majority in this house 13 shiver and shake at the concept of having to 14 abide by a section of law which only became 15 law because this house, by a majority vote, 16 along with the Assembly and the Governor made 17 that a matter of law. 18 So, Senator Paterson, you don't 19 know how you create the element of fear on the 20 other side of the aisle just by the thought of 21 what your words may be. You are, indeed, a 22 powerful individual and you have my great 23 respect that you can make them shake so. 24 I vote in the negative. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 1 Senator Gold in the negative. Resume the 2 reading of the roll. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Gonzalez. 5 (There was no response.) 6 Senator Goodman. 7 SENATOR GOODMAN: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 9 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Hoffmann. 12 (There was no response.) 13 Senator Holland. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Johnson. 17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger. 19 SENATOR KRUGER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kuhl. 21 SENATOR KUHL: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Lachman. 24 SENATOR LACHMAN: No. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lack. 1 SENATOR LACK: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 LaValle. 6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Leibell. 9 SENATOR LEIBELL: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Leichter. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Maltese. 17 (There was no response.) 18 Senator Marcellino. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Marchi. 21 SENATOR MARCHI: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Markowitz. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Maziarz. 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Meier. 3 SENATOR MEIER: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mendez, 5 excused. 6 Senator Montgomery. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nanula. 9 SENATOR NANULA: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Nozzolio. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Onorato. 15 SENATOR ONORATO: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Oppenheimer. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Padavan, excused. 21 Senator Paterson. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 23 President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 25 Senator Paterson. 1 SENATOR PATERSON: I really 2 think in the future we should try to conform 3 to some kind of process. 4 Other than that, I would just 5 like you to know that I haven't had so much 6 fun since January 12th, 1969 when the New York 7 Jets defeated the Baltimore Colts by a score 8 of 16 to 7. 9 I vote no, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Senator Paterson votes no. Continue the roll 12 call. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Present. 15 SENATOR PRESENT: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rath. 17 SENATOR RATH: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rosado. 19 (Negative indication.) 20 Senator Saland. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Sampson. 24 (There was no response.) 25 Senator Santiago. 1 SENATOR SANTIAGO: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Seabrook. 4 SENATOR SEABROOK: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Seward. 7 (There was no response.) 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 11 SENATOR SMITH: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Spano. 13 SENATOR SPANO: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Stachowski. 16 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Stafford. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Yes, yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Stavisky. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Trunzo. 24 SENATOR TRUNZO: Yes. 25 THE SECRETARY: Senator 1 Velella. 2 (There was no response.) 3 Senator Volker. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Waldon, 6 excused. 7 Senator Wright. 8 SENATOR WRIGHT: Aye. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 10 the absentees. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Balboni. 13 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Breslin. 16 (There was no response.) 17 Senator Gonzalez. 18 (There was no response.) 19 Senator Hoffmann. 20 (There was no response.) 21 Senator Maltese. 22 SENATOR MALTESE: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Markowitz. 25 SENATOR MARKOWITZ: No. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Sampson. 3 (There was no response.) 4 Senator Seward. 5 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Velella. 8 (There was no response.) 9 Senator Breslin. 10 SENATOR BRESLIN: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 33, nays 12 20. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 14 motion passes. The Senate stands adjourned 15 until Tuesday, March 10, at 3:00 p.m. 16 (Whereupon, at 5:16 p.m., the 17 Senate adjourned.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25