Wednesday, March 18, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 18, 1998 11 11:01 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 find their places, guests to find their 5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to 6 rise with me and join me in saying the Pledge 7 of Allegiance to the Flag. 8 (The assembage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 10 If you will all remain 11 standing. We're very pleased to have with us 12 the Reverend Fred Shilling of the Gilead 13 Lutheran Church of Center Brunswick for the 14 prayer. 15 REVEREND FRED SHILLING: May we 16 come together in prayer according to our 17 tradition. 18 Creator of each one of us, 19 provider of all the resources that are good, 20 and defender against all of that which is 21 destructive: We thank You for the wisdom of 22 the founders of this great country. They were 23 aware that at times they could not trust each 24 other so their egos got in the way and so they 25 needed to trust God and they placed that 1 implant on the coin of the country. May we 2 see today that implant in our deliberation so 3 that at the end of the day we can look at each 4 other and say, We have made a difference. 5 Thank You for standing behind us, beside us, 6 in front of us and above us to give meaning in 7 all that we do. In the name of the One that 8 is always with us, we pray. Amen. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Reading 10 of the Journal. 11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 12 Tuesday, March 17th. The Senate met pursuant 13 to adjournment. The Journal of Monday, March 14 16th, was read and approved. On motion, 15 Senate adjourned. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 17 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 18 read. 19 Presentation of petitions. 20 Messages from the Assembly. 21 Messages from the Governor. 22 Reports of standing 23 committees. Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Cook, 25 from the Committee on Education, reports: 1 Senate Print 6414, by Senator 2 Rath, an act to amend the Education Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 4 ordered directly to third reading. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator -- we have one substitution at the 10 desk. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Make the 12 substitution. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 14 Secretary will read the substitution. 15 THE SECRETARY: On page 20 16 Senator Rath moves to discharge from the 17 Committee on Education Assembly Print 9294-A 18 and substitute it for the identical Senate 19 Bill 6347. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 21 Substitution is ordered. 22 Senator Skelos, that brings us 23 to the calendar. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 with the consent of the Minority, could we 1 have the title read on Calendar Number 391 for 2 the purpose of Senator Farley voting. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 4 Secretary will read the title to Calendar 5 Number 391. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 391, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2379-A, 8 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there a 10 message of necessity at the desk? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 12 is. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to 14 accept. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion 16 is to accept the message to of necessity on 17 Calendar Number on Calendar Number 391. All 18 those in favor say aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response.) 22 Message is accepted. 23 Call the roll. Or excuse me, 24 read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 91. 1 This act shall take effect in 120 days. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the 5 roll. ) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Farley, how do you vote? 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Vote aye. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Farley will be recorded in the affirmative. 11 The roll call is withdrawn. 12 Senator Skelos, that brings us 13 back to the calendar. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 if we could take up the non-controversial 16 calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 18 Secretary will read the non-controversial 19 reading of the calendar. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 12, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 2349-A, 22 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 23 relation to providing certain information. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 25 Secretary will read the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 2 This act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 293, by Senator Present, Senate Print 4112-B, 12 an act to enact the Private Activity Bond 13 Allocation Act of 1998. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 15 Secretary will read the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the 21 roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 360, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 501, an 2 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 3 relation to requiring certain persons. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 This act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the 11 roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 362, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 673, an 17 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and 18 the Family Court Act. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 20 Secretary will read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 22 This act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the 1 roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 363, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4047, an 7 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 8 disposal of allegedly stolen motor vehicles. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 10 Secretary will read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 12 This act shall take effect on the first day of 13 November. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the 17 roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 365, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4306, an 23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 24 criminal possession. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1 Secretary will read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. 3 This act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the 8 roll. ) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 366, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 4307, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal 15 Procedure Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 17 Secretary will read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. 19 This act shall take effect on the first day of 20 November. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the 24 roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 369, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 5218-A, 5 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 6 criminal diversion. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 8 Secretary will read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. 10 This act shall take effect on the first day of 11 November. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the 15 roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 374, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 461, an 21 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 22 relation to school districts. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 24 Secretary will read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 1 This act shall take effect on the first day of 2 January. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 375, by Senator Present, Senate Print 528, an 12 act to amend the General Municipal Law. 13 SENATOR PRESENT: Lay the bill 14 aside for the day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 16 bill aside for the day. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 378, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 3095, an 19 act to amend the Town Law, in relation to 20 qualifications. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 22 Secretary will read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. 24 This act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the 3 roll. ) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 383, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 5269-A, 9 an act authorizing the town of Schroon to 10 dissolve and discontinue the Schroon Lake 11 Water District. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 13 Secretary will read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 15 This act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the 19 roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 37. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 391, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2379-A, 25 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, 1 the Executive Law, the Family Court Act and 2 the Penal Law. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Lay the 5 bill aside. 6 Senator Skelos, that completes 7 the reading of the non-controversial 8 calendar. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 10 take up the controversial calendar now. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Secretary will read the controversial calendar 13 beginning with Calendar 391, Senate 2379-A, by 14 Senator Saland. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 391, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2379-A, 17 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, 18 the Executive Law, the Family Court Act and 19 the Penal Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Paterson, did you ask for an explanation? 22 (There was no audible 23 response.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Saland, an explanation of Calendar Number 391 1 has been requested by Senator Paterson. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 Mr. President, this is the 5 Juvenile Justice Accountability and Procedural 6 Reform Act of 1998. It mirrors a similar 7 Governor's program bill that this house passed 8 last year. It's an effort to deal in a 9 comprehensive fashion with the ever 10 troublesome and certainly extraordinarily 11 difficult issue of juvenile crime; but what 12 this bill endeavors to do is to create an 13 approach by which we deal with violent youths 14 in a fashion which, far too frequently, 15 appears to be a situation in which gratuitous 16 and violent crime well beyond the national 17 statistics, seems to be occurring here in the 18 state of New York, and what we endeavor to do 19 is to deal with violent crime. We endeavor to 20 impose steeper sentences not merely in the 21 case of juvenile offenders in our criminal 22 courts, but also juvenile delinquents by way 23 of increased penalties to designated felonies 24 in our Family Courts, but at the same time we 25 look to a host of other avenues with which to 1 deal with alternatives. We create an 2 alternatives commission, the purpose of which 3 is to try and find the optimum and the best of 4 alternative programs by which to divert young 5 people into, hopefully, lives that will not 6 take them down the path of crime but lives of 7 opportunity. 8 We look to such new creations 9 as the dispositional services plan, to have 10 greater court involvement in assuring that 11 these young people will not merely have 12 services but that there will be court follow 13 up because I believe most people are aware or 14 certainly should be aware of the fact that 15 what occurs today in a system that basically 16 goes back some 30 or 40 years, there were some 17 amendments back I believe in early -- the 18 early 1980s, but it's basically a system that 19 was conceived to deal with a different type of 20 a juvenile, a juvenile that wasn't given to 21 gun possession, that wasn't given to violent 22 crime, a juvenile that wasn't involved heavily 23 in the use of or trafficking in drugs. We're 24 talking about a system that was conceived to 25 deal with juveniles that dealt with things 1 such as car theft, joy rides, perhaps petit 2 larceny, nothing of the enormous magnitude 3 that we're experiencing today, and certainly 4 if you were to take a look at the statistics 5 and go back some ten years you would see 6 extraordinary increases in the level of 7 juvenile crime, and while certainly it must be 8 acknowledged that in the course of the past 9 couple of years we've seen some diminution in 10 those numbers, what this bill is about is 11 really not about those who don't commit crime 12 but how we should treat those who choose to 13 commit crime, and we do a number of things 14 here, and let me just give you a brief 15 selection of some of the more significant or 16 salient futures of this bill. 17 I alluded earlier to the fact 18 that we provide for increased sentences for 19 juvenile offenders who commit violent crime. 20 Very similarly in a parallel fashion, the same 21 thing occurs in the Family Court for violent 22 juvenile delinquents who commit designated 23 felony offenses. We take the construct of the 24 Youthful Offender Law, which I think we all 25 recognize was intended to ensure that a young 1 person who commits an act, perhaps some 2 misconduct that might even be out of character 3 or first instance in which he or she is 4 engaged in misconduct, criminal misconduct, 5 and that youthful offender says that through 6 your 17th year we're going to give you the 7 ability, in effect, not to be tarnished by 8 that act that you committed, we're going to 9 give you youthful offender status. 10 What this bill says is, we're 11 still going to give you youthful offender 12 status. However, if you haven't learned your 13 lesson, if in fact you persist in committing 14 these types of crimes and if you commit a 15 violent felony, what we're going to do is we 16 are going -- if you commit that crime within 17 five years of your receiving a youthful 18 offender adjudication, we're going to permit 19 the court to go back and look at that 20 preceding youthful offender adjudication and 21 if, in fact, the underlying crime was a felony 22 you will now find yourself in a predicate 23 felony situation, which I certainly think 24 would be appropriate and warranted. 25 We're doing things 1 procedurally. What we're doing, among other 2 things, is we're enabling the Family Court to 3 be one of the courts that has the ability to 4 issue search warrants. We're doing -- what 5 we're doing also is we're dealing with the 6 issue of the speedy trial problem where a 7 young person effectively absconds, disappears, 8 doesn't appear in court and the presentment 9 agency finds itself in a situation in which if 10 they can not show due diligence, that time 11 runs and they are effectively barred. What 12 we're saying is the speedy -- that speedy 13 trial clock is going to be tolled while that 14 young person chooses to absent themselves from 15 the jurisdiction of the court or the 16 proceeding that the court has before it. 17 We give victims the opportunity 18 to have their day in court, so the court can 19 hear them in the course of making its 20 disposition or issuing its decision and 21 order. Very importantly, the bill talks time 22 and again about juvenile accountability and 23 parental support therefor, and what we do is 24 involve parents. We want parents to be 25 involved in this process. We want parents to 1 have the opportunity to deal with the court, 2 with the agencies that are involved with the 3 disposition of the case, to try and assist 4 their children in getting back on the right 5 track. 6 The bill also, as has already 7 occurred with Judge Kaye's directive, opens 8 the Family Court. This would statutorily 9 accomplish the same thing. Increased records 10 -- increased access to juvenile records. If, 11 for instance, a young person were to apply for 12 a job as a police officer, if a young person 13 was to apply for a gun license, this bill says 14 that you would have the ability to access 15 juvenile records that would have otherwise 16 been sealed, to determine what that person's 17 background is, and in fact they are 18 appropriate candidates either for a 19 police-related job or the ability to carry a 20 gun. 21 I mentioned in my earlier 22 comments we create an alternatives commission, 23 a seven-member commission with representatives 24 from both houses and from the Governor, the 25 purpose of which is to maximize the kinds of 1 alternative placements that we can resort to, 2 and similarly there's provision in this bill 3 for the use of something which we have really 4 attempted to enact into law since 1995, a 5 dispositional services plan which will enable 6 much more of a hands-on approach, much greater 7 control, and also provides for the requirement 8 of after-care planning by the Office of 9 Children and Family Services. 10 So this bill really represents 11 the -- the continuing effort of the Senate 12 Majority working closely with the Governor to 13 deal with comprehensive juvenile justice 14 reform. This is something that we initiated 15 by the introduction of legislation back in 16 1995. This house in 1996 passed a 17 comprehensive juvenile justice reform bill. 18 In 1997, we passed after working out an 19 agreement with the Governor, his Governor's 20 program bill which is now back in front of us 21 here in this session, the 1998 session. 22 Certainly we welcome however 23 belatedly, the involvement of the Assembly. 24 We know that this year, after considerable 25 talk about doing something about juvenile 1 justice, they have in fact passed a measure 2 and we look forward to the opportunity to find 3 where we have a common interest and trying to 4 work towards closure of this issue during this 5 1998 session. 6 A critical issue, an issue of 7 great importance to all of us in all of our 8 communities, and I would be very remiss if I 9 did not mention, as I referred in my earlier 10 comments, to the fact that the numbers 11 certainly are staggering when compared to the 12 numbers of some ten years ago. The numbers of 13 crimes that are committed in New York State by 14 juveniles, violent crimes, are probably 15 approximately double the national average. 16 The numbers of homicides greatly exceed, by as 17 much as 40 percent, the national average, and 18 while, as I mentioned, there has been some 19 diminution in the course of the past couple of 20 years, I think we have to all be mindful of 21 what we're being told by demographers and 22 those who have looked closely at this issue. 23 There is going to be a significant bulge, 24 growth, perhaps as high as 25 percent, in the 25 teen-age group, 14 to 17 years of age, when we 1 get a little bit beyond the turn of this new 2 oncoming century. 3 We all know that crime is 4 disproportionately high among teenagers and 5 those in their early 20s, so while we can take 6 some comfort in some reduction, the reality is 7 that we must be very mindful of the fact that 8 there is not only the potential but the 9 enormous potential for yet another serious 10 spike in juvenile crime just awaiting around 11 the corner for us as we approach the 21st 12 Century. 13 I would like to thank so many 14 people who have been kind enough to give me 15 their assistance in putting this bill 16 together. Certainly the Governor is entitled 17 to an extraordinary amount of credit for his 18 bringing this issue to the forefront, working 19 closely with us in our efforts to try and 20 bring closure and, as I said a moment ago, the 21 Assembly's interest has at long last, has at 22 long last manifested itself in the form of a 23 bill and hopefully this will really get us to 24 the process where we can iron out our 25 differences and after what has been a 1 three-year quest for me as the chairman of the 2 Children and Families Committee, resolve this 3 issue during this session. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Paterson. 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 8 Mr. President, and thank you, Senator Saland 9 for a rather informative explanation of the 10 juvenile justice program that you are 11 proposing, and, Mr. President, I actually 12 didn't ask for an explanation, but I wanted 13 one and your intuitive powers continue to 14 amaze me. You're serving us aptly. 15 If the Senator would yield to a 16 question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Saland, will you yield? 19 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 22 yields. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Actually, 24 there was some aspects of the legislation I 25 was particularly impressed with, the 1 involvement of victims in the process, which 2 is something that for such a long time our 3 criminal justice system has not addressed, the 4 decision you made in the legislation to unseal 5 the records for youthful offenders when it 6 comes to applying for licensing for weapons, 7 perhaps later on in their lives, the 8 availability of that information is I think 9 quite good and also the jurisdiction of Family 10 Courts to issue as you have underscored in 11 your legislation, search warrants which could 12 be very helpful in ferreting out and 13 preventing crime. 14 Those are some of the more 15 dialectic aspects that I was quite happy to 16 see in the legislation. 17 However, with crime decreasing 18 since it had increased among youthful 19 offenders from 1986 to 1996 and crime now 20 decreasing and the anticipation that you 21 described in your remarks of a spike in crime, 22 I am somewhat concerned that the scope of the 23 legislation is not directed more in the area 24 of prevention, such as it is currently. 25 For instance, some of the 1 programs that you probably have heard about, 2 for instance, in the city of Boston where they 3 had a program involving the police department 4 and 45 different types of programs and 5 agencies and they cut violent deaths among 6 young people by 90 percent, in that city. I 7 don't see a real commitment in this 8 legislation to prevention. I just wondered, if 9 the crime rate is now down and what we're - 10 what we're talking about is heading it off 11 before it rises again, certainly your 12 legislation could be said to be a deterrent to 13 younger people. 14 But what, in a tangible sense, 15 are the measures that you propose for 16 prevention? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 18 in my opening remarks I believe I indicated to 19 you that the thrust of this legislation is an 20 endeavor to deal with those who have committed 21 crime. 22 When we start talking about 23 prevention, and I certainly have a 24 considerable interest in the area of 25 prevention, serving as I do as chairman of the 1 Children and Families Committee -- I believe 2 we're getting involved in issues that are more 3 -- more appropriately dealt with within the 4 context of the budget, within the context of 5 other legislation. 6 We believe that, when you look 7 at the use of alternatives, when you look at 8 the use of our dispositional services plan, 9 those who do commit crime can, in effect, be 10 not merely rehabilitated but provided with 11 opportunities through what may now commonly be 12 called graduated sanctions to take advantage 13 of the kinds of programs and the kinds of 14 diversions that will be presented. 15 This bill does not attempt to 16 rewrite social policy. This bill attempts to 17 deal with a criminal justice problem, and I 18 certainly would hope that you would not have a 19 comfort level with the degree of violent crime 20 that's being committed by youths in the state 21 of New York. The fact that it has diminished 22 in the past year or two, it's still nearly 50 23 percent higher than it was ten years ago and 24 if you take out the last two years, it's 25 probably in some categories 80 or 90 percent 1 higher, and if we're going to put our heads in 2 the sand and assume that it's going to 3 continue to get better, we're in for a rude 4 awakening; and there's all kinds of reasons 5 given by many different portions of the 6 spectrum as to why that has happened. Some of 7 it is attributed to law enforcement. Some of 8 it is attributed to programs. Some of it is 9 attributed again to the demographics and I'm 10 sure there's enough credit to go around to all 11 portions of that spectrum. Nobody can give 12 you a definitive answer. 13 But we're not endeavoring to 14 deal here with that part of the equation. 15 This bill endeavors to do no more than to deal 16 with those who have engaged in crime. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Paterson. 19 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you 20 very much, Senator Saland, and Mr. President, 21 on the bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Paterson, on the bill. 24 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 25 President, everything that Senator Saland has 1 said on the subject reveals that prevention is 2 a priority area with him and he does have 3 other measures that actually address it, and 4 so I think that I do have a comfort level with 5 the fact that Senator Saland himself will 6 address the entire area. I due have a problem 7 with this bill presented at this time, coming 8 before what I would see as the entire 9 equation, which would head off criminality 10 among youth. 11 We're talking about really one 12 half of one percent of all youth, and yet it 13 is being highlighted in such a way not just by 14 the presentation of this bill but in the 15 discussion of the subject in such a way as if 16 there isn't a decrease in the crime and I 17 don't have a comfort level with any crime, but 18 I pointed it out just to indicate that this is 19 the area we should be directing our lawmaking, 20 and to put half of it out here and to leave 21 what would be the most important part, 22 particularly when we're talking about younger 23 people -- we're talking about individuals who 24 are still forming their thoughts and judgments 25 about their lives -- we know that advertisers 1 believe that it's that early teen audience 2 that they want to hit because in many ways 3 they make a lot of the decisions that they 4 will live with for the rest of their lives at 5 that time in terms of products that they buy 6 and it's also true with the reasoning mind. 7 It is one that flourishes when it is enhanced 8 at that particular time. 9 Most of the crimes committed by 10 youth are committed between the hours of 3:00 11 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., which is the after school 12 situation. Senator Kennedy has a bill right 13 now called "America After School" addressing 14 that particular issue, and Senator Saland, 15 very honestly, explained that's not in this 16 particular piece of legislation. 17 Therefore, I don't -- I would 18 rather not support the legislation at this 19 time, if anything as an encouragement to those 20 who are in position to pass bills here to 21 address that other side of the equation, to 22 look at the endeavors we can take that would 23 curb crime among youth, to focus our attention 24 in the belief in the younger people of our 25 society that perhaps we can head off 1 anti-social activity on their -- on their 2 part. 3 I think that is really the crux 4 of my opposition to this legislation. We are 5 addressing an issue in anticipation of 6 something that we all fear may be an increase 7 in crime among younger people, but at the same 8 time we are now going to legislate as to how 9 to -- how to deal with the individuals who 10 commit the crimes after they commit them 11 rather than how to stop them and perhaps 12 dissuade them from going in that area, and in 13 my opinion it demonstrates the rather 14 lugubrious point of view that we as a 15 legislature are taking about young people in 16 our society. 17 We talk about how much we like 18 young people and that kind of thing, but we 19 have no belief in them. We have no 20 understanding that they can be affected by 21 actions that we actually take. If we're 22 talking about second and third predicate 23 felons, people who have demonstrated a pattern 24 of conduct and you want to increase crimes in 25 those areas, I can understand that, I can vote 1 for that, but to pass legislation at this time 2 that treats really the problem ex post facto, 3 in my opinion, is somewhat shortsighted and, 4 for that reason, I would encourage those who 5 would join with the work that Senator Saland 6 has already done in the area to put the 7 package together in one package and when I see 8 it that way, then I will feel more comfortable 9 voting for it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 11 Waldon. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 Would the gentleman yield to a 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Saland, would you yield to a question? 18 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 yields. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 Senator, you are aware of the 25 Rand study in California in '96, are you not? 1 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, I am, 2 Senator Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: And are you - 4 could I just continue, Mr. President? 5 SENATOR SALAND: Could I just 6 ask that the gentleman raise his voice a 7 little bit. 8 SENATOR WALDON: With pleasure. 9 Mr. President, would the gentleman continue to 10 yield? 11 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, sir. 12 SENATOR WALDON: Are you also 13 aware that that report showed that for every 14 million dollars spent on prevention measures 15 that over 230 crimes were prevented, whereby 16 the same amount of money spent -- let me just 17 check my math, the same amount of money spent 18 -- sorry, it's 480 crimes, same amount of 19 money spent on incarceration resulted -- and 20 punitive measures resulted in just 62 crimes 21 being prevented in the state of California, by 22 youth we're talking about? 23 SENATOR SALAND: I'm aware of 24 the findings of the Rand study. I'm aware 25 that it says that there are certainly positive 1 results from incarceration. They maintain 2 that there are more positive results by way of 3 prevention programs, and I don't think I'm 4 here to argue with you that they're mutually 5 exclusive, so I think there's room for both 6 and certainly effective criminal justice 7 policy requires both, but that's not what this 8 bill is about, as we've discussed in a prior 9 incarnation. 10 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 11 gentleman yield for a few more questions? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Saland, you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, Mr. 15 President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 continues to yield. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 Senator Saland, we've done this 21 before and there's a purpose for what you're 22 doing and hopefully there's a purpose in what 23 I'm doing, and I understand that we're not 24 arguing the issue that I'm trying to make but 25 it must be made because we are at budget time 1 and we have billions of dollars -- 70 as 2 characterized by some, 72 by others, could be 3 70, whatever, I don't know but it's a lot of 4 money, and if we're going to make policy which 5 will affect the quality of life for everyone 6 across the state, especially the results of 7 violent crime committed by our youth, then we 8 need to address prevention measures as well. 9 Are you familiar with or aware 10 of the statement that was made by the Division 11 for Youth Director John A. Johnson in 1977, 12 which said in regard to the Rand findings, 13 quote: "The most successful programs were 14 found to prevent five times as many crimes for 15 every dollar spent on incarceration. This 16 study reinforces the growing body of research 17 showing that a human development approach 18 works to reduce youth, family and community 19 problems," close quote. 20 SENATOR SALAND: I'm not aware 21 of his particular statement, but it certainly 22 comes as no surprise. I have very high regard 23 for the now Commissioner, and believe that he 24 certainly appropriately would be a person to 25 make a comment such as that. 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, 2 Senator Saland. 3 Mr. President, if I may, on the 4 bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Waldon, on the bill. 7 SENATOR WALDON: I cannot 8 support this as proposed, but I just want to 9 take this opportunity to thank Senator Saland 10 for his earlier comment when responding to 11 Senator Paterson that in your capacity as the 12 chairman of your committee, that you will look 13 -- and I think that's what I heard -- you 14 will look towards developing policies and 15 making proposals to us which will address the 16 prevention aspect. 17 Clearly, if we are to have a 18 safer society, then the dollars spent on 19 prevention are better spent than those that 20 are spent on punitive measures and on 21 incarceration. We're in a time -- ticking 22 time bomb situation regarding our youth where 23 there will be an explosion of youth come the 24 21st Century and it seems to me better policy 25 to spend the money on ensuring that all of us 1 will be safe because they will have viable 2 alternatives early on as opposed to just 3 locking people up for longer and harder 4 sentences. 5 By the way, if there's ever an 6 opportunity, in my opinion, to salvage a soul, 7 to salvage a mind, to salvage someone who has 8 made a mistake, it is earlier in life, not 9 after they've been incarcerated for 18 years 10 as opposed to nine years, not after they've 11 been exposed to some of the seediest and most 12 violent elements available in our society. We 13 ought to stop them from ever getting to a 14 point where all of those influences will wreak 15 continued havoc on themselves and on 16 ourselves. 17 I thank you for your 18 indulgence, Senator Saland, and, Mr. 19 President, I will be voting in the negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 23 President, thank you. 24 I would like, if you would 25 allow me, to read into the record a statement 1 that I have before me, and I would like for - 2 and also to be part of the record that I am 3 dedicating this statement to my son, William, 4 who is 11, soon to be 12, and I want him to 5 know that I stood up on his behalf in this 6 chamber on legislation such as this. 7 The bill is tough, but it isn't 8 smart. Being tough on violent kids is only 9 one part of the equation. We need a 10 comprehensive approach that is designed not 11 merely to punish bad kids but also to prevent 12 kids from entering the juvenile justice 13 system, to begin with. 14 While this bill is properly 15 concerned with holding violent juveniles 16 accountable for their own actions, its focus 17 on incarcerating serious offenders is 18 shortsighted and will end up being more costly 19 in the long run. We should be considering 20 more preventive efforts such as efforts to 21 keep at-risk kids off the street, especially 22 between the hours of 3:00 and 8:00 when most 23 crimes are committed by young people. 24 This punitive focus offers 25 little in terms of preventing juvenile crime. 1 Incarcerating a person after they have harmed 2 another is but half a loaf. We need to enact 3 legislation to help local officials, including 4 educators and social workers and others to 5 identify problem kids and intervene in their 6 lives before they victimize others. For 7 example, the Boston Police Department, in a 8 nationally renowned program, works with 45 9 community programs on youth outreach aimed at 10 reducing crime. Their efforts have resulted 11 in a 90 percent drop in firearm deaths between 12 1990 and 1997. 13 According to the Division of 14 Criminal Justice Services, juvenile crime is 15 declining. Let's keep in mind that when we 16 talk about juvenile crime, we are talking 17 about a relatively small group of offenders, 18 less than one half of one percent of all 19 juveniles in 1994. 20 This bill fails to address the 21 need of 99.5 percent of our state's youth. We 22 all agree that violent juveniles must be held 23 accountable. Yet the legislation focuses on 24 mandatory sentencing and on trying youths in 25 the adult justice system. There is an 1 impressive body of research that concludes 2 that prevention, along with increasing the 3 resources to existing programs can do more to 4 reduce the juvenile crime rate than the 5 incarcerative approach. Yet we have not added 6 money to our budget to improve and expand 7 juvenile programs in this state. 8 This bill creates a commission 9 to study the needs of alternatives to 10 placement programs and community reintegration 11 programs for juvenile delinquents. So why are 12 we passing this bill which alters the way 13 juveniles who commit crimes will be handled 14 before the commission comes with their report? 15 The bill represents half of the 16 equation in terms of our state's juvenile 17 crime problem. The Governor's approach is 18 tough, but certainly not smart at all. We 19 need to improve our preventive efforts and 20 expand them by providing young people with 21 supervised activities after school, by 22 addressing at-risk children particularly, by 23 giving Family Court judges more sentencing 24 options for children who commit minor 25 offenses and, because these elements are 1 missing from this bill, I certainly am going 2 to vote no, and I thank our staff, Mike 3 Fallon, who has helped me put together this 4 statement, and I certainly again make this 5 statement on behalf of my son and those other 6 sons like mine in this state who might some 7 day be entangled in this because of this 8 legislation, in the criminal justice system. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Is 11 there any other Senator wishing to speak on 12 the bill? 13 Hearing none, the Secretary 14 will read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 91. 16 This act shall take effect in 120 days. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the 20 roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would 22 all of those members who are voting in the 23 negative please take your seats and raise your 24 hands if you're voting in the negative so that 25 we can -- the Secretary can locate you and 1 record you accordingly? 2 Senator Smith, you can't sit on 3 Senator Montgomery's lap and vote. 4 SENATOR SMITH: This is all my 5 lap. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 7 Announce the results. 8 THE SECRETARY: Those reported 9 in the negative on Calendar Number 391 are 10 Senators Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, 11 Paterson, Rosado, Sampson, Santiago, Seabrook, 12 Smith and Waldon. Ayes 41, nays 10. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 14 bill is passed. 15 Senator Holland. 16 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. 17 President, I understand there are some people 18 who would like to cast negative votes on 19 previous bills. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 21 recognizes Senator Holland -- or excuse me, 22 Senator Montgomery. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 24 President. I would like unanimous consent to 25 be recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 1 362. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 3 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 4 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative on 5 Calendar Number 362. 6 Senator Sampson, why do you 7 rise? 8 SENATOR SAMPSON: Mr. 9 President, I'd like unanimous consent to be 10 recorded in the negative on Calendar Number 11 362. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 13 objection, hearing no objection, Senator 14 Sampson will be recorded in the negative on 15 Calendar Number 362. 16 Senator Cook, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 18 can we return to the order of motions and 19 resolutions. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: That we 21 can. We'll return to the order of motions and 22 resolutions. Senator Cook. 23 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, 24 previously the Senate has adopted Resolution 25 Number 2756 which commended the New York 1 Association for Continuing Community Education 2 for 1988 -- yeah! 1998 Students of the Year 3 as Outstanding Adult Learners. We have those 4 students with us in the galleries today. I 5 would like to read their names and have them 6 recognized. I will say that we have probably 7 missed a couple of people. I know one 8 individual in particular who's supposed to 9 receive a copy of this resolution and we will 10 make sure that you get a copy before you leave 11 because the resolution directed that you were 12 to receive a copy of it, and I ask you to 13 forgive mispronunciations of names, but I will 14 do the best that I can. 15 I know that most of you have 16 already been to the various Senate offices, 17 have been greeted by the Senator who 18 represents you, but we as a Senate chamber are 19 very proud of all your accomplishments and 20 would like to recognize you at this time. 21 Christine Torres, Pietro Di 22 Paolo, Harry Seda, Eugene Shustorovich, Sonja 23 Anderson, Daniel Loftus, Sharon Malone, Maria 24 Arce, May Belle Currington, Jamie Lawson, Judy 25 St. Louis. These adult students of the year are 1 accompanied by the board president of New York 2 Association for Continuing Community Education 3 Lin Wischhusen and also by the awards day 4 co-chairs, Marilyn Howland and Mark Cass. 5 Mr. President, I would be most 6 grateful if you could welcome these 7 outstanding students and their leaders here 8 today. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 10 you, Senator Cook and on behalf of Senator 11 Bruno, Senator Cook, and all the members of 12 the Senate, we welcome the adult students to 13 the chamber. We congratulate you on your 14 tremendously successful job, your hard work. 15 We know it took a lot, and we wish you well. 16 Now, if you would all stand, 17 Jamie and the other members, we'd like to 18 congratulate you and welcome you to the 19 chamber. 20 Thank you for being with us. 21 (Applause) 22 Senator Wright. 23 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. 25 On page number 4, I offer the 1 following amendments to Calendar Number 46, 2 Senate Print Number 1417, and ask that said 3 bill retain its place on the Third Reading 4 Calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 6 Amendments to Calendar Number 46 are received 7 and adopted. Bill will retain its place on the 8 Third Reading Calendar. 9 Senator Holland. 10 SENATOR HOLLAND: Any further 11 housekeeping? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 13 is none other at the desk, Senator. 14 SENATOR HOLLAND: There being 15 no further business, I move we adjourn until 16 Monday, March 23rd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 17 days being legislative days. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 19 objection, the Senate stands adjourned until 20 Monday, March 23rd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 21 days to be legislative days. 22 (Whereupon at 11:48 a.m., the 23 Senate adjourned.) 24 25