Tuesday, April 14, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 14, 1998 11 2:09 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR JOHN R. KUHL, JR., Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 3 Senate will come to order. Ask the members to 4 take their places, staff to find their 5 places. I'd ask everybody in the chamber to 6 rise and join me in saying the Pledge of 7 Allegiance to the Flag. 8 (The assemblage repeated the 9 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. ) 10 In the absence of clergy, may 11 we bow our heads in a moment of silence. 12 (A moment of silence was 13 observed.) 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Monday, April 13th. The Senate met pursuant 17 to adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, April 18 12th, was read and approved. On motion, 19 Senate adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Hearing 21 no objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Pres... Senator Bruno. 24 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 25 can we at this time call for an immediate 1 meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There 3 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 4 Committee, immediate meeting of the Finance 5 Committee in the Majority Conference Room, 6 Room 332. 7 Presentation of petitions. 8 Messages from the Assembly. 9 Messages from the Governor. 10 Reports of standing 11 committees. 12 Reports of select committees. 13 Communications and reports from 14 state officers. 15 Commun... motions and 16 resolutions. 17 Chair recognizes Senator 18 Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUIS: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 On behalf of Senator Hannon, 22 Mr. President, I wish to call up his bill 23 Print Number 4433, recalled from the Assembly 24 which is now at the desk. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 3 Hannon, Senate Print 4433, an act to amend the 4 Civil Service Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 8 I now move to reconsider the vote by which 9 this bill was passed and ask that the bill be 10 restored to the order of third reading. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 12 Secretary will call the roll on 13 reconsideration. 14 (The Secretary called the roll 15 on reconsideration. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 46. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 20 I now move to recommit Senate Print 4433, 21 Calendar Number 174 on the order of third 22 reading, to the Committee on Civil Service and 23 Pensions with instructions to strike the 24 enacting clause. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 1 recommitted and the enacting clause stricken. 2 Senator Bruno. 3 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 4 can we at this time adopt -- move to adopt the 5 Resolutions Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 motion is to accept and adopt the Resolution 8 Calendar which is on all of the members' 9 desks. All those in favor of adopting the 10 Resolution Calendar signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 Opposed nay. 13 (There was no response. ) 14 The Resolution Calendar is 15 adopted. 16 Senator Bruno. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 18 can we stand at ease for a few moments pending 19 the report of the Finance Committee. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 21 will stand at ease pending the report of the 22 Senate Finance Committee. 23 (The Senate stood at ease from 24 2:13 p.m., until 2:35 p.m.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senate 1 will come to order. Members will find their 2 chairs, staff will find their chairs. 3 Chair recognizes Senator Bruno. 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 5 can we return to reports of standing 6 committees to adopt the report of the Finance 7 Committee. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Return 9 to the order of the reports of standing 10 committees. There's a report of the Finance 11 Committee at the desk. I'll ask the Secretary 12 to read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Stafford, from the Committee on Finance, 15 reports the following bills directly for third 16 reading: 17 Senate Print 6094-B, Budget 18 Bill, an act to amend the Real Property Tax 19 Law; 20 6096-B, Budget Bill, an act in 21 relation to appropriations made by the chapter 22 of the laws of 1988, enacting the general 23 government budget; 24 Senate Print 6098-B, Budget 25 Bill, an act to amend Chapter 393 of the Laws 1 of 1994; 2 Also restored the following 3 bills to third reading: Senate Print 6100-B, 4 Budget Bill, an act making appropriation for 5 the support of government (Legislature and 6 Judiciary Budget.) 7 6103-C, Budget Bill, an act 8 making appropriation for the support of 9 government; and 10 6105-C, Budget Bill, an act 11 making appropriation for the support of 12 government. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Motion 14 is to accept the report of the Finance 15 Committee. All those in favor signify by 16 saying aye. 17 (Response of "Aye.") 18 Opposed nay. 19 (There was no response. ) 20 The report is accepted. All 21 bills ordered directly to third reading. 22 Senator Bruno. 23 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 24 I don't know whether members are around the 25 premises here celebrating the joyous occasion 1 of passing a budget, but it strikes me that 2 the members ought to be somewhere within this 3 chamber, and, Mr. President, you might just 4 recommend that, that if members are 5 circulating that we're going to start a 6 process here in a few minutes and that they 7 really ought to be here in the chamber 8 participating in this process. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 10 President Pro Tem raises a very good point. 11 Senator Paterson, could you take it upon 12 yourself to get the members from your side of 13 the aisle in the chamber, and would the 14 Majority members please come to the chamber. 15 We're about to embark upon a historic process; 16 that's the adoption of the 1998-1999 budget. 17 Senator Paterson. 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would 21 you like the mike for the purpose of calling 22 your members to the chamber? 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, yes, 24 Mr. President. I see a lot of room down the 25 right field line, and I don't think I can 1 cover it from over here, so - 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Would 3 you like their names read off, Senator 4 Paterson? 5 Senator Paterson, did you have 6 something more to say? 7 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, no, Mr. 8 President, I was just moving. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 10 Bruno, I see a large number of the members 11 have responded to your call and are present. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. 14 It is gratifying to see their 15 happy smiling faces here joining us in this 16 chamber and, Mr. President, my colleagues, 17 this should be a very happy occasion for the 18 people in this chamber and for the people of 19 this state. 20 We are today going to complete 21 the budget process for the year '98-99 for the 22 people of New York State, and we will be doing 23 this budget in a very timely way and, when I 24 say "timely," it's April 14th. That is very 25 timely. 1 We can all reflect last year 2 when we set the third world's record in a row 3 for late budgets, and many of us in this 4 chamber at that time on August 4th, at 5 noontime, having gone through the night, vowed 6 that that process would never, ever happen 7 again in this state while we were involved in 8 the process. 9 Mr. President, my colleagues, I 10 am proud to say that we are doing this budget 11 in a timely way, in daylight. Hopefully in 12 this house we will be done by dinnertime, not 13 after midnight, not in the early hours of the 14 morning, and that's important and that's 15 something that all of us in this chamber and 16 in the other house, the Governor's office, can 17 take pride in, because we said last year never 18 again, and here we are, now making good on 19 that vow and that promise. 20 And, Mr. President, this 21 process over the years has had to change. We 22 have had casualties here in this chamber that 23 some people could say related to our process 24 of working through the night, working into the 25 morning. It was a very dangerous set of 1 circumstances for people and for the public in 2 this state. Never should we legislate 3 anything as important as a budget past mid 4 night, in the early hours of the morning, when 5 many of us can't truly focus on the importance 6 of what we're doing, and relate to it. 7 So I thank all of you and 8 everyone, staff that have been involved in 9 this process that brings us here today, and 10 I'd like to comment on this first bill that 11 we'll take up today, which I believe is the 12 third bill that we will have passed and take 13 up that relates to the budget, and it will be 14 the first of six bills today. 15 This bill, as we call it up and 16 start completing the budget process, relates 17 to tax cuts, relates to the STAR program, and 18 if we have done anything over the last several 19 years with the leadership of Governor George 20 Pataki, who three years ago became Governor 21 and recognized that $5 billion deficit that we 22 all inherited, that he inherited, was due 23 primarily to the failure of this state to 24 compete with other states for jobs, in 25 economic development and in growth, and in 1 three years all of that has changed, for New 2 York now does not lag in job creation, not 3 50th in job creation, and depending on where 4 you look we are like sixth, eighth, in 5 creating jobs. 6 The fact of the matter is there 7 are those that would detract from that 8 statement. I have heard in this chamber, Hal 9 Hovey quoted, who does the newspaper relating 10 to budgets, the editor. This was reprinted, 11 New York Post, I believe one of my colleagues 12 referred to this, and I want to refer to it 13 again because what this basically concludes 14 for the people of this state, and this 15 information is that yes, New York State has 16 done a lot, but we have a lot more to do, and 17 this points out that, while we have gained on 18 the rest of the country, we have not won the 19 race, and we still spend too much and we tax 20 too much at every level. 21 Now, we are moving again today 22 to correct that, to move New York State 23 forward, to make us competitive, and there 24 isn't anything that is more important than 25 helping people get employed, stay employed, 1 and you only do that when you allow companies 2 and the professions to compete in what is a 3 worldwide market, and for anyone that doesn't 4 understand that, talk to someone that lost 5 their job because their company had to move to 6 Tennessee or to Virginia or to Ohio or to 7 Europe or to Mexico. Talk to those families 8 when people are in their 50s and in their 60s, 9 and they can't find a job. Why? Because New 10 York State was not competitive. 11 We are now gaining in the 12 country, and that's why it is imperative that 13 we have joined with the Governor, with the 14 Speaker, in a tax package today that we will 15 pass, that will allow seniors in this state to 16 keep $527 million of their pension money, of 17 their Social Security money, that they don't 18 have to spend this year on property taxes. 19 Now, think of that. Think of 20 people on fixed income being able to keep that 21 much money collectively, and what this does 22 for their life, for the quality of their life 23 and what it does in the community for all of 24 the people that participate as they spend that 25 money. 1 Think about us dropping a 2 corporate tax rate for the first time in 3 anyone's memory from 9 percent to 7.5 percent, 4 helping make companies in this state 5 competitive with our neighbors, with states 6 across the country. That's how you keep jobs; 7 that's how you grow jobs. 8 The investment tax credit for 9 the financial community, people have said and 10 it's written that the financial community is 11 driving the revenue that we are enjoying in 12 this state, and a lot of that is true. 13 Why don't we want to recognize 14 that that's a fact and support that industry, 15 and this bill that we will pass will 16 incorporate tax credits for computers and high 17 tech' equipment to allow those industries to 18 be here, compete here, and not have to move to 19 back offices, to the Dakotas and to Nevada and 20 to Tennessee and to New Hampshire, because 21 it's cheaper for them to do that. This helps 22 keep jobs here and grow jobs. 23 When you look at the securities 24 industry, you will see there's been like 49 25 percent growth in jobs. New York has not 1 participated. We have gained like in the last 2 few years a thousand jobs a year, while the 3 rest of the country has gained tens of 4 thousands. We are doing something about 5 that. We're not wringing our hands; we are 6 doing something about that, and that's in this 7 bill and, Mr. President, this bill totals over 8 $743 million, plus the 527 million for the 9 STAR program to accelerate the senior property 10 tax cuts. 11 It has cuts for small business, 12 about $170 million worth, and we all know that 13 small businesses employ the great percentage 14 of people who are just starting in the work 15 force, and it's critically important that we 16 help small businesses become medium-sized 17 businesses and big businesses, and we're doing 18 that here this afternoon. 19 So I want to just congratulate 20 everyone in this chamber because you 21 participated. You are making history. For 22 the first time in this state ever, we are 23 passing a budget that is done through a system 24 that has involved almost the entire membership 25 in a conference committee approach in 1 cooperation and coordination with the 2 Governor, in recognition that the Governor 3 submitted a program bill to establish 4 conference committees so that we could get our 5 work done in a more effective and efficient 6 way, and all of us know that we have been in 7 constant communication with the Governor's 8 office. For those that think that this 9 process was isolated, it was not. 10 Now, are we in agreement, all 11 of us, on everything that we're doing? 12 Certainly not. Is there any way in this state 13 or in the world that you could get 211 14 legislators to agree on everything, and the 15 Executive to agree on everything? I think not; 16 and if any of you can devise a way to do that, 17 please share it with us and we will again 18 promise to incorporate that into the planning 19 towards next year. 20 So while everyone isn't totally 21 satisfied with what we're doing, you should 22 take great comfort and pride in that we have 23 met the requirements for a lot of people in 24 this state and that what we are doing now will 25 truly be a credit to us, to the Executive, in 1 the Assembly and to all of the people of this 2 state, and I want to just conclude my comments 3 to thank the Governor and the people in the 4 Budget Division who had to move into a new 5 process with us, and learn this process with 6 us, and they were there and they were helpful 7 and they were responsive and, with this 8 Governor, we are going to continue through '98 9 to set the tone, to set the pace for the rest 10 of the country so that New York State will be 11 looked upon as it is now and recognized truly 12 as a leader in the world economy and that we 13 can take pride in being part of all the good 14 things that are happening to make this truly 15 the Empire State. 16 Thank you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Bruno, would you like us to put Calendar 19 Number 614, Senate 6094 before the house now? 20 SENATOR BRUNO: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: 23 Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 614, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6094-B, an act 1 to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 2 relation to the school property tax exemption 3 for eligible senior citizens. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Bill is 5 before the house. 6 Chair recognizes Senator 7 Connor. 8 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you - 9 thank you, Mr. President. 10 My colleagues, here we are on 11 April 14th. It's not exactly on time, but it 12 sure beats August 4th, and you know, you get 13 some awareness of how long as a Legislature 14 we've been remiss with this budget process, 15 and the Executive also, when this morning my 16 eight-year-old said, "Dad, where are you 17 going?" I said, you know, to Albany. We're 18 doing the budget today. He said, "Budget! 19 We're not at the seashore," because 20 unfortunately in his lifetime most of the 21 times we've done a budget he was out of school 22 and it was summertime, and so it's certainly 23 an improvement over these past years. 24 The process itself, Mr. 25 President, far from perfect, as I have pointed 1 out on occasion, taking my role as Minority... 2 my institutional role as Minority Leader 3 seriously, is a far better system than we've 4 had in the past, and I'm optimistic about what 5 it portends for the future because I think we 6 will make it better in future years. I think 7 the process will start earlier, the members 8 will be more familiar with it, and it will 9 indeed be proven to be the best way to make a 10 budget in New York State. 11 We oughtn't be shocked at that, 12 Mr. President, because, believe it or not, 13 it's fundamentally the system used in most, 14 small "d", democratic societies and states in 15 this nation -- conference committees, open 16 committees, and an open discussion of budget 17 issues and, as we confront all of these bills, 18 and you know, there's the usual big stack of 19 bills, I can't make the usual complaint that, 20 Gee, I haven't had a chance to read them. I 21 don't know what's in them. I know what's in 22 them. The members have had a chance to read 23 them. They've been on the desks for at least 24 three days, but indeed, the process of 25 building these bills has been going on for 1 weeks now, and we had an opportunity to know 2 what was fundamentally in the Senate's version 3 of it when we passed that version a few weeks 4 ago. We then all had an opportunity to see 5 where the Assembly's version differed, and 6 then many of us on conference committees and 7 indeed all the members -- because I would say 8 now and I know it's true in every conference 9 in this Capitol -- those who were on the 10 conference committees certainly reported back 11 to their conferences as to what the major 12 differences were and ultimately how they were 13 reconciled. 14 So there is something to be 15 said for that public process in the fact that, 16 lo and behold, I stand here looking at my 17 colleagues who were better informed, I dare 18 say, about what's in this budget than has been 19 the case in this Legislature for some years 20 now with respect to the average member, and 21 that's good. 22 And the public knows what's in 23 this budget. That's even better, and they 24 understand how it was formed. They understand 25 compromises, the essence of budget making. I 1 think people can see where the compromises 2 occurred, and can evaluate that as they ought 3 to and hold the Legislature accountable. 4 We've done some great things in 5 this budget, I believe. We've upheld some 6 fundamental New York values, values that I'm 7 proud to say my conference has stood for. We 8 will be funding education at record levels. 9 We will be making that commitment to the 10 future of this state. We will be, as Senator 11 Bruno pointed out, cutting taxes. That's a 12 good thing. Not exactly the exact taxes we 13 wanted to cut, but certainly tax cuts of any 14 sort are better than no tax cuts in terms of 15 helping the people of the state of New York 16 prosper. 17 One thing I -- Senator Bruno 18 said that, you know, New York under Governor 19 Pataki in talking about job creation has, 20 depending on where you look, either is sixth 21 or eighth in the country in creating new 22 jobs. I would say, Mr. President, regrettably 23 that New York, depending on where you live, is 24 either sixth or eighth in creating jobs or 25 near dead last because we do have a state 1 that's almost a "tale of two cities" if you 2 will. We have the downstate area, an economy, 3 an economic engine driven by the prosperity of 4 Wall Street that's benefited New York City and 5 its suburbs and indeed its neighboring states 6 down there, New Jersey and Connecticut, by 7 creating jobs, creating wealth, creating 8 enormous spin-off jobs in everything from 9 restaurants to limousine drivers, and we have 10 an upstate economy that continues to lag 11 behind the rest of the state and the rest of 12 the nation. We have upstaters who are fearful 13 for their jobs who still watch the flight of 14 jobs from their cities and towns and who are 15 not quite so sanguine about the future of this 16 state. 17 We have done, I think, some 18 things in this budget to promote the economic 19 development and make creation of jobs, 20 retention of jobs in those areas more 21 attractive, but I fear that under this 22 Governor, this state has failed to address the 23 concerns of upstaters about the future of - 24 their future, the future of their families and 25 the ability of their children to make a living 1 and live in that part of the state where 2 they've grown up. 3 Indeed, we find those 50-year 4 olds that Senator Bruno alluded to, without 5 jobs, fearful, wondering where they're going 6 to get their next job. So hopefully we've 7 done a small thing here to correct that 8 problem. I wish we could say that the success 9 which the current administration points to 10 over the last three and a half years in 11 creating jobs applied throughout the state, 12 but it does not. 13 That said, Mr. President, 14 certainly we as legislators ought to be proud 15 that we've embraced a new system. I 16 congratulate the Majority Leader and the 17 Speaker for their role in having the courage 18 really to set forth this new way of making 19 budgets. I suspect on both of their parts a 20 little bit of self-interest because I know 21 them both well enough to know that they didn't 22 really have a lot of fun when they were three 23 men in a room working with a budget. I think 24 they have had more fun this year not being in 25 that room with two other men and the whole 1 state watching them and sweating away in a hot 2 July saying, Where is the budget? 3 But we have launched this new 4 process. I think it will be a good one. I'm 5 delighted that it was a Governor Pataki 6 program bill, but I would point out that once 7 upon a time in 1988, there was a reform task 8 force put forth by the Senate Democratic 9 Conference in this house which called for 10 conference committees and conference 11 committees to reconcile the budget. It just 12 goes to show you, Mr. President, that 13 occasionally a good idea just gets so 14 irresistible, particularly given the failings 15 of the old system, that it doesn't matter who 16 first ventured to come forth with it. It 17 eventually has its day, and this has begun to 18 have its day. I know it will have even better 19 days in future years. 20 So, Mr. President, on balance, 21 disappointments in this budget, a few; things 22 I'm delighted about, certainly what we're 23 doing for education, what we're doing for 24 construction for education, the RESCUE plan, 25 these are great achievements and on balance, 1 therefore, I'm delighted to support this 2 budget and will be voting for it. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 5 recognizes Senator Goodman. 6 SENATOR GOODMAN: As you're 7 aware, Mr. President, I've spent 30 years of 8 my life in the process of the Legislature, and 9 I must say something very different has 10 occurred this year. 11 In a nut shell, the era of 12 blindman's buff budgeting has finally come to 13 a close. No longer do we have a situation in 14 which we as legislators have literally blind 15 folds upon us until the sudden moment when a 16 budget is released some time between midnight 17 and 3:00 a.m. We're asked to consider it and 18 adopt it in an atmosphere of absolute lack of 19 specifics and an inability to really 20 comprehend what it is we're doing. 21 I submit to you that this kind 22 of buffoonery had to come to an end and I want 23 to just say that, in his very gracious 24 distribution of credit to the members, Senator 25 Bruno neglected to mention one crucial part of 1 this, and that is the role which our 2 leadership played in bringing this to pass. 3 Let me just say very briefly, 4 Mr. President, that in instructing the 5 Conference co-chairmen on the approach that he 6 wanted them to take in bringing about the new 7 conferencing procedures, Senator Bruno 8 stressed three -- the three Cs, the 9 conferencing, collegiality and the essential 10 compromise approach which had to be taken. 11 Conference, collegiality and compromise. 12 He did not say to go in and 13 squeeze the last drop of blood from the 14 negotiation, but he said go in with an 15 attitude that what we must attempt to do is to 16 bring about an understanding and make 17 absolutely certain that we do not let the 18 budget go until the month of July or August. 19 Let me just say that this was 20 indelibly printed on my mind last August when 21 we were celebrating a family anniversary and 22 we were in Alaska, and upon landing in Anchor 23 age I was suddenly informed that the slow, 24 strenuous, secretive budget process had 25 finally ground to a halt and that we would be 1 voting on the budget the next day; so in a 2 rather unique dash to be back in time to vote 3 I went from Anchorage, Alaska to Los Angeles, 4 from Los Angeles to Cincinnati, from 5 Cincinnati to Albany, on an all-night flight 6 and on the last leg of the flight, a lady came 7 on the plane who was absolutely hysterical. 8 She and her husband had been arguing. She 9 didn't not wish to be on this plane. 10 Since my -- the seat next to 11 mine in a three-row was the last one on the 12 plane, I had the privilege in addition to 13 wondering what was going to happen in the 14 budget to try and play amateur psychiatrist 15 and quiet her down. I did so with a simple 16 artifice. I tried to explain to her the 17 budgetary process I was going back to work 18 in. She was so horrified to hear about it 19 that her plight in coming on a plane which she 20 had no desire to be on was mollified and she 21 was distracted and everything went swimmingly 22 from that point on, and I said, My God, I hope 23 I never have to take a flight like this again 24 and, Senator Bruno, I want to thank you for 25 making it possible for that not to occur, and 1 to say to you, sir, that I think you and 2 Senator Connor, certainly Speaker Silver and 3 Assemblyman Faso are all deserving of great 4 credit, but in particular, if I may, at the 5 risk of needing an orthopedist for 6 congratulatory back-slapping to get my arm 7 back in its socket, let me just say that I 8 think you deserve very special credit for the 9 spirit and the underlying approach which you 10 conveyed to each of the members on this side 11 as we went through this very tortuous and 12 difficult but most improved process. 13 I salute you, sir, for an 14 absolutely revolutionary and significant step 15 forward in the democratic process. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Leichter. 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 19 President, I'd like to talk about Senate Bill 20 6094-B. 21 Let me say, Senator Bruno, you 22 are extremely eloquent. The problem is you're 23 a person who's standing with the sun rising 24 behind him in the east who's arguing that the 25 sun rises in the west. 1 I mean, when I still hear you 2 on this floor pulling out these discredited 3 job figures, I really wonder, do you believe 4 them? Do you think anybody believes them? 5 Senator Bruno, you get up and you say we're 6 sixth in job growth. You know what you're 7 comparing us to? You know what it's like? 8 It's like a major league team bragging because 9 they can beat a Little League team -- no, not 10 a Little League team, a Peewee League team. 11 Senator you're bragging that 12 New York State, under George Pataki, created 13 more jobs than Rhode Island; and you know 14 what? More than Montana. More than North 15 Dakota, in fact more than the two Dakotas 16 together, but the fact is, Senator, that when 17 you do it on the only meaningful way of 18 considering job growth, which is per capita, 19 we're 46th or 47th. 20 The Pataki program has been a 21 failure, and I read off to you last time 22 figures that you accepted and you had to 23 accept because they were accurate, that our 24 job growth is far below that of all of our 25 neighboring states, Senator, that our job 1 unemployment figures are far above the 2 national average or that of any of our 3 neighboring states. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'll be 7 happy to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 yields. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Will Senator 11 Leichter yield to one question? 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 14 yields. 15 SENATOR BRUNO: When you ask 16 who are we comparing with? We are comparing 17 with Mario Cuomo, when -- (applause) when this 18 state in his years, in the last few years lost 19 600,000-plus jobs. We're not comparing to the 20 other states. We're comparing -- look it up, 21 Senator, look it up -- 600-and-some thousand 22 jobs. 50th in job creation. That's who we're 23 comparing with. I thought you were asking me 24 a question. I felt compelled to answer. 25 Thank you, Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leichter, you have the floor. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: If I may 4 answer the Majority Leader, Senator, you're 5 still being very eloquent, and you're still 6 arguing the sun rises in the west and 7 everybody can see it's rising in the east. 8 I'm glad we're taking Mario 9 Cuomo off the shelf and dusting him off now 10 that it's a gubernatorial election year and 11 you're going to run against Mario Cuomo, but, 12 Senator, the figures that I'm giving you are 13 since January of 1995, during just the 14 three-year period. Forget Mario Cuomo. We're 15 starting now, this is -- this is A.C., after 16 Cuomo -- if you take -- if you take those 17 three years, the nation's unemployment rate 18 during those three years went from 5.4 percent 19 to 4.7 percent. 20 Every northeastern state but 21 New York showed dramatic improvement in their 22 unemployment situation, and now there's a 23 difference between the New York State 24 unemployment and the national unemployment 25 which far exceeds the gap that existed in 1 Mario Cuomo's last years. It's also important 2 to note, Senator Bruno that Mario Cuomo was 3 Governor at a time of a national recession. 4 Yes, New York State lost jobs, but 5 proportionate to the rest of the nation, we 6 didn't lose as many jobs as we are now failing 7 to gain jobs in relation to the rest of the 8 nation. 9 What's worrisome about New York 10 State's economic situation is that we are now 11 at what is a boom period and we are not 12 creating the jobs. We're not competitive. 13 We're not doing well, and I submit to you that 14 one of the reasons that we're not doing well 15 is because of the tax policies that have been 16 pursued by this administration and tax 17 policies that are enshrined in this particular 18 bill. 19 This is an irresponsible bill. 20 First of all, we don't have the money, we 21 don't have the money to provide these sort of 22 tax cuts. The fact that we have any surplus 23 this year is due to the very extraordinary 24 boom time in Wall Street that everyone -- that 25 everyone says cannot continue. We are looking 1 at deficits down the line of billions of 2 dollars. 3 I asked the distinguished 4 Secretary of the Senate Finance Committee what 5 the projected deficit was for next year. He 6 said 1.8, but I see a figure here from the 7 Fiscal Policy Institute that is probably over 8 $3 billion. 9 So that, one, we don't have the 10 money to do it, to make these tax cuts. 11 That's not to say that our taxes in this state 12 are at a right level. They ought to be 13 brought down, but what we need is to create a 14 smarter tax system, a fairer tax system, and 15 what unfortunately this bill does to some 16 extent at least is to create a more irrational 17 tax system and a tax system that economically 18 makes even less sense. I want to pick on two 19 particular aspects that disturb me. 20 One is, which I think is 21 probably the most unjustified, unwarranted, 22 most foolish tax cut ever enacted, is to have 23 a 50 million investment tax credit for the 24 Wall Street investment firms, and Senator 25 Bruno says that's going to create jobs, it's 1 going to keep jobs here. 2 First of all, the Wall Street 3 firms have enjoyed enormous record profits. I 4 have some of the figures here of what these 5 firms have done in these last -- in these last 6 years. Merrill Lynch last year had revenues 7 of over $31 billion, profits were 1 billion 8 906 million -- hundred million dollars, 27 9 percent increase in its profits in 1997 from 10 1996 -- 1996. Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter, 11 revenues $27 billion, profits were over 12 $2,500,000,000. The percent change, the 13 increase in profits, was over 200 percent. 14 Now, these firms are doing 15 extremely well. These are firms that don't 16 need to put their hands into the state's 17 taxpayers and take money. 18 Secondly, there's no proof 19 whatsoever that providing an investment tax 20 credit for these firms is going to, one, 21 increase any jobs because, by and large, these 22 are industries that are decreasing 23 employment. They're doing it because of 24 technology, and they're going to do that 25 whether we give them an investment tax credit 1 or not. 2 Thirdly, Senator Bruno says, 3 well, they haven't been increasing jobs. 4 That's absolutely true. In spite of these 5 record profits, these firms do not create many 6 jobs, again because of the technology and the 7 nature of that business. So why would you 8 conceivably want to invest monies in those 9 industries that aren't creating jobs, that 10 have record profits, that have the means 11 certainly to pay for their own technological 12 advances? It's pure and simple a give-away. 13 Whether it's driven by poor economic theory or 14 whether it's driven by campaign contributions, 15 I don't know, but it is unquestionably the 16 most foolish tax that this Legislature has 17 ever enacted. Totally, absolutely 18 unjustified. 19 The other aspect of this tax 20 cut which is unjustified is the reduction in 21 the corporate tax rate. Now, we've reduced in 22 the past the corporate tax rate, and right now 23 corporate tax revenues are a smaller and 24 smaller percentage of the total revenues that 25 we raise in New York State. It's absolutely 1 not true, one, that the corporations of this 2 state are overtaxed. Secondly, it's not true 3 that that -- that those taxes in some ways 4 make the state less competitive economically. 5 I don't think you could find one sound 6 economist, one sound businessman, who is going 7 to say the reason that we're not as active 8 economically or businesswise in New York State 9 is because of the high rate of corporate 10 taxes. They're not high in this state and 11 they're certainly not high when you take a 12 look at the total amount of money that is 13 collected. 14 There certainly are some taxes 15 that we could get rid of, things that we could 16 do as far as infrastructure, things -- more 17 things that we could do in education. There 18 are things that we could do in getting rid of 19 the gross receipts tax, and we made a small 20 reduction in that, I believe it was last 21 year. We could certainly do more of that, but 22 the across-the-board reduction in the 23 corporate tax makes no sense whatsoever. 24 So, far from helping to 25 strengthen the state economically, this bill 1 is going to weaken the state financially. 2 It's going to make it harder next year to have 3 a budget that's going to serve the needs of 4 the people of New York State. It's going to 5 give the "fat cats" gifts that -- for which 6 there's no reason whatsoever, and I think what 7 we will see is that New York State will 8 continue as it has been under the Pataki years 9 not to be creating jobs, and I want to say 10 that the problem of high unemployment is not 11 just upstate. 12 Senator Connor was certainly 13 correct that the upstate economy is in serious 14 trouble, but in New York City we have an 15 unemployment rate that is about 9.5 percent. 16 So there are many parts of this state that are 17 doing very poorly, and this tax cut enacted in 18 this bill is certainly not going to help 19 them. 20 I think there are things that 21 you could find in this tax cut that maybe you 22 can support and the STAR program, I would 23 certainly like to support, but I'm not going 24 to vote for a bill that gives $50 million to 25 the most profitable industry in the whole 1 country at a time when we could that that $50 2 million and use it so much better. 3 Let me just finally say I'm 4 amused when Senator Bruno talks about the free 5 market economy, and so on. Senator, the free 6 market economy works without statism. You're 7 really the -- one of the -- in your enthusiasm 8 in supporting these companies really one of 9 the biggest statism economic theorists that we 10 have of having the state interfere, having the 11 state decide and influence the markets. 12 We go to the Russians and we 13 say, you've got to stop subsidizing industry. 14 You've got to stop giving monies to industry. 15 It's wrong. The World Bank tells them that. 16 The IMF tells them that, but what you want to 17 do right here in New York State is the very 18 thing that we criticize the Russians and some 19 of the other emerging countries for doing, 20 which is having the state subsidize certain 21 industries, and if you're going to subsidize 22 industries, this is certainly the wrong 23 industry to subsidize. 24 So let me just say we can 25 commend ourselves for maybe the process, 1 because we've certainly improved it, although 2 in some respects reminds me of a sinner who, 3 you know, goes and for the first time shows a 4 little penitence and then goes around bragging 5 and claims that he's a saint, you know. I 6 think we've got a long way to go in making 7 this a truly effective and a fair process. 8 I'm mindful of the fact, for 9 instance, that on the conference committees 10 there were four Majority members to every 11 member of the Minority, which doesn't reflect 12 the ratio and the proportion that we have here 13 in this chamber, and certainly -- and 14 certainly the two leaders continued to make 15 decisions often in disregard of the 16 committees, but without question, I think 17 we've started on a path that's going to make 18 this a more open process. Certainly it will 19 be more democratic, and certainly it's 20 commendable, Senator Bruno, and I do commend 21 you for the fact that we're not doing this in 22 the middle of the night, and I want to commend 23 you because you did start the process of the 24 conference committees, and I think it's an 25 important step, but I think that we all ought 1 to recognize that we have so much further to 2 go, and let me also say that the final test is 3 really going to be the work product that we 4 come up with. 5 To my mind, nobody is going to 6 praise this budget. This budget is only going 7 to further enshrine New York State as having 8 one of the most irresponsible budgets, and 9 we're going to continue to see that our credit 10 rating is going to be tied for last with 11 Louisiana. If you want to brag about that, 12 Senator Bruno, brag about the fact that our 13 credit rating is on the same level as 14 Louisiana. This sort of budget, this sort of 15 bill, will just ensure that the credit raters 16 are going to look at us and say, These people 17 are irresponsible. 18 This particular bill, certainly 19 those aspects that I pointed out to you are 20 irresponsible. We should not brag about 21 passing this bill. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 23 Marchi. 24 SENATOR MARCHI: Mr. President, 25 under old Jewish law, a unanimous verdict was 1 not acceptable. You had to have at least one 2 dissent, because something might have been 3 missed; and Senator Leichter, with his 4 customary zeal and enthusiasm, and I believe 5 in a sincere belief in what he said, advanced 6 a critique of the public policies, or at least 7 some of them. He sort of concluded on a more 8 optimistic note, but nevertheless that was the 9 one point, the one dissent, that in my 10 estimation gave us a guarantee that the larger 11 wisdom of people who are experiencing the 12 contact of one to one around the state, feel 13 that we are headed in the right direction. 14 It was not only the policy, Mr. 15 President, as much, or as important as this 16 is. There isn't a nation on earth such as the 17 United States where a single hairpin is made 18 by the government. We assign economic 19 generation to the private sector, and it has 20 to be equitably addressed, and we can argue 21 and differ on that point. It should have a 22 social conscience; otherwise, we're back in 23 Brazil somewhere, with the very rich and the 24 very poor. There has to be a fundamental base 25 of decency for the inhabitants of this 1 country. We have to speak to every American, 2 not just to some of them, and the best way to 3 achieve that, Mr. President, is not in the 4 discredited economics followed by a bankrupt 5 east -- east nations of Europe, and also the 6 struggling economies of Europe itself. 7 They're having -- France is 8 having tremendous difficulties with their 9 heavy taxes. It's true of Benelux; it's true 10 of Italy. It's true of virtually every 11 country that I can think of, where they simply 12 have not greened out, and they have not 13 stepped into and approached the new millenium 14 that is on the horizon; and then you have this 15 American experience. 16 And how do we serve this state 17 best? We serve it best by maximizing those 18 very principles that gives this life -- this 19 country life. As important as all of this is 20 -- and I think great -- we have to assign - 21 Senator Bruno assigned a collective support, 22 the collective support that has been given as 23 a collective wisdom, a collective wisdom. 24 This is an institution, no matter how you 25 vote, for or against. I would hope you vote 1 for, but being part of this movement and this 2 motion has added everyone makes a 3 contribution. 4 But what is equally important, 5 of equal importance with the economic aspects 6 of economic rejuvenation, of creativity, of 7 job creation, of all those factors which give 8 life to a state and we are, if we start from 9 higher levels, you know, you can compare the 10 states and say that, Oh, we've given 50 11 million, I forget Franz told me, but you 12 realize that this is still the most heavily 13 taxed nation by any statistical abstract, 14 although we are making giant strides in 15 narrowing and closing that gap, without 16 sacrificing those human concerns, those social 17 concerns, which are broad and manifest. 18 But what's of equal importance 19 is also the process by which we arrive here. 20 This is unheralded. I've been here over 40 21 years. I have never seen anything like this 22 either in terms of 90 legislators, in a very 23 intimate way, in a sharing fashion, in a 24 discussion -- objective discussion of concrete 25 issues as I've seen this time. Ninety, and 1 that proliferated as that went out through the 2 various committees and people that were 3 affected by that. 4 And this sunshine on the whole 5 process, I think major credit cannot be denied 6 to Senator Bruno. This is major sunshine that 7 is irreversible. If we do anything, we're 8 going to take stock. We're going to take 9 inventory of what we've done. Some say the 10 numbers are -- we started late. Yeah, we 11 started late because the self-starter went 12 into terra incognita -- terra incognita, for 13 the natives' way of saying it. 14 This is new country, and we're 15 blazing new trails, and certainly we're going 16 to examine and re-examine that which has 17 happened in those areas which can be shored up 18 and give greater visibility and maximize their 19 opportunity to further this process, and I 20 think part of that is also -- you say, Aaah, 21 we're late again with the budget. Budgets 22 were adopted with a constitutional deadline in 23 times when farmers were coming here for the 24 winter. There wasn't much they could do 25 outside, so they did that. 1 This is an extremely complex 2 process, and unless we make adjustments -- and 3 it's very difficult to unravel once you've 4 gone through this pain. A lot of things and 5 relationships, we are interdependent. There 6 are school years; there are federal years; 7 there are factors that were well suited to 8 their times, but all of these factors have to 9 be weighed very carefully. But we are out in 10 the sunshine. It's a public process, and I 11 cannot see how we can do anything else but 12 rejoice at the point that we have arrived at. 13 I feel very confident that this 14 is going to advance the well-being and the 15 welfare of the people of this state, and we 16 can take joy and pride, voting as you please 17 with your conscience, but you all made a 18 contribution to this result, and the same 19 thing can be said for the other hall down at 20 the other end, where up until recently it was 21 sort of like an enemy country or something. 22 Everyone harnessed to the same effort with the 23 same objective. Everyone prompted by the same 24 ideals. 25 This is a spiritually up 1 lifting effort, and we can all feel proud that 2 we are here today addressing these issues as 3 they should have been addressed perhaps many 4 times over the past. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 6 Waldon. 7 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. President. 9 My colleagues, I'll be brief. 10 I'm very pleased to have participated in this 11 budgetary process this year. It was 12 reminiscent of something I had on a very 13 limited basis experienced in Washington as a 14 member of the House of Representatives, and I 15 applaud our leadership in constructing it so 16 that we could each feel that somehow, even if 17 it was just a small thumbprint, our thumb 18 print was on this process. 19 In all of my previous years in 20 the Assembly and in the Senate, I recognize 21 that through our conversations and colloquy, 22 the leaders -- our respective leaders 23 participated in a very small or smaller 24 setting than this chamber and exchanged ideas 25 and somehow a budget evolved from that. 1 However, this time I know that it was not just 2 three persons in a room with staff, but it was 3 the collective 211 which had something to say 4 about the destiny of New York State and the 5 road map by which we will govern and by which 6 we will distribute resources, and I'm very 7 pleased to have participated in that. 8 I think we will never see 9 governing or budgets or participation in the 10 process as it once was, that we're striking 11 out for a new horizon, that we will all be 12 better for it but, most importantly, that the 13 people of the state of New York will be better 14 for our being able to work in this very fine 15 process. 16 So let me personally thank our 17 Majority Leader Senator Bruno, our Minority 18 Leader Senator Connor and Speaker Silver and 19 Assemblyman, the new Minority Leader in his 20 house, Faso and the Governor. I think it was 21 a brilliant move for us to all be allowed to 22 participate in this process, and even though 23 you may not hear us say it so openly in these 24 halls but in private, some of my colleagues 25 have told me yes, I feel good about what we're 1 doing now. 2 So I applaud the leadership for 3 letting us feel good about what we're doing. 4 Thank you very much, Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Chair 7 recognizes Senator Hoffmann. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Yes. Thank 9 you, Mr. President. 10 I listened with some amazement 11 when Senator Leichter first stepped up to the 12 plate and thought perhaps I had missed sunset 13 because it sounded like we were back in a 14 post-midnight hour once again, and I have to 15 take exception. I think Senator Leichter was 16 much too tough on Senator Bruno. This is a 17 day on which we can all offer great praise to 18 the Majority Leader of this Senate. 19 As one who has been a vocal 20 critic of this chamber and the other chamber 21 for the last 14 years, I feel very proud today 22 that we have made this extremely important 23 step into a new era. The New York State 24 Legislature has been likened by some to a 25 feudal kingdom some place in eastern Europe 1 shortly after the discovery of fire but before 2 the invention of the wheel. 3 Our spoils system and the very, 4 very partisan kingdom-like attitudes have been 5 a hindrance to the role of government as it 6 should be manifested relative to the needs of 7 the people of this state. It is the people of 8 this state who, in fact, are treated like 9 peasants when some of the members of either 10 house of the Legislature are treated like 11 serfs or vassals, and I think that we are now 12 at a point, having tried this important 13 experiment, where we could see in the future a 14 meaningful process evolve from the very 15 beginning of our session, one that would allow 16 each of the committees which are resplendant 17 with many, many gifted people, with great 18 knowledge in areas of study -- some of us have 19 been here for decades; people like Senator 20 Marchi have wisdom from -- from ages in which 21 to offer. Senator Marchi can quote references 22 in literature in at least three languages. We 23 have other colleagues who have lived through 24 unique eras of this country's history and are 25 familiar with important activities in other 1 parts of the world that would have some 2 bearing on our deliberations. Now is the time 3 for us to give all members of this house and 4 the other house an opportunity to participate 5 in a meaningful way on an ongoing basis. 6 It is still remarkable that we 7 had conference committees, most of which 8 worked as well as they did placed in such a 9 short amount of time under the glare of the 10 spotlight. We don't do anything in this 11 Capitol when it becomes open without our 12 detractors for the most petty reasons, but in 13 this instance, there was an audible gasp when 14 there was this announcement made that we would 15 go to conference committees, and I do believe 16 that people across the Capitol, members of the 17 press, members of the public, lobbyists, all 18 watched in wonder while this experiment 19 unfolded. 20 I have to say to my leader, 21 Senator Connor, I appreciate the opportunity 22 to have been given a chance to serve on the 23 General Government and Local Assistance 24 Conference Committee, and it was a -- it was a 25 splendid experience, a warm positive 1 encounter. The chair on the Senate side was 2 that easy-going, affable gentleman from 3 Suffolk, Senator Lack, backed up by the always 4 practical Senator Rath, and the easy-going and 5 very cordial Senator Jim Alesi, from the 6 Rochester area, and the always debonair 7 Senator Caesar Trunzo from Long Island, and we 8 all had a wonderful time and enjoyed the 9 experience of serving with our counterparts 10 from the Assembly led by none other than 11 Deputy Speaker Arthur Eve. It would be hard 12 to imagine a more dissimilar group of people 13 in the same room than the ones that I have 14 just named, and yet I think we all came out of 15 that better people, and we hopefully created a 16 document, or some of us helped to create a 17 document that will be a better part of this 18 budget. 19 More important, we gained 20 mutual respect for each other, by the public 21 at the same time that we went through this, 22 and we established the precedent hopefully 23 which will be built upon in the next year. So 24 I want to thank you again, Senator Bruno. I 25 remember years and years ago your comments 1 that some day you would like to see this place 2 changed and if you ever became leader, years 3 before you ever contemplated it, how you vowed 4 that you would bring about this change, and I 5 know it couldn't happen overnight, but over 6 these last few years I've watched and been 7 very, very proud of the steps that you've 8 taken and I have not forgotten and have 9 repeated many times across this state how in 10 your very first move as Majority Leader, you 11 adopted the practice that I and others had 12 been talking about of making it a rule that we 13 would not have those late night sessions and I 14 know how fervently you tried to adhere to 15 that. 16 So I applaud you for having 17 made this important venture, and I pledge my 18 full cooperation to take it into the next 19 stages, and people across this state are 20 watching and praying that we will make this a 21 beginning, not just our standard for 22 performance. This is a beginning on which we 23 can do much, much more for the people of this 24 state. 25 On the bill before us, Mr. 1 President, I have some questions, and I had 2 hoped that Senator Stafford might be speaking 3 ahead of me. I had asked what the list was 4 but I will make a few comments and then 5 perhaps if Senator Stafford wants to yield, he 6 would be able to answer one piece of 7 information that I had. 8 The bill that we have before 9 us, there's the particular bill that is here, 10 6094, I know many of us have been making 11 general remarks in the process, but I'd like 12 to turn to this measure right now, which the 13 short title is generally referred to as the 14 tax cut bill. That is somewhat of a misnomer 15 because it has a number of other things within 16 its pages, and one of those other activities 17 outlined within its pages begins -- well, the 18 important parts begin on page 77, the 19 important parts for the discussion that I 20 would like to engage in. 21 At the top of page 77, it 22 reads, "Public School Districts." "There will 23 be Authority financing of eligible school 24 construction projects, rebuilding schools to 25 uphold education," and then -- then the very 1 important statement in parentheses, capital 2 letters, "RESCUE" which is the terminology now 3 for a new program to be enacted by this 4 measure if it is passed by both houses and 5 signed into law by the Governor, and then on 6 line three reads, "The Dormitory Authority is 7 authorized to finance eligible school 8 construction projects for those public school 9 districts which are approved by the 10 Commissioner of Education to receive aid 11 apportionment for rebuilding schools," and it 12 goes on to describe how that would take 13 place. 14 Down on line 41, it further 15 establishes that "the Commissioner of 16 Education shall certify from time to time to 17 the Dormitory Authority, the Comptroller, the 18 Director of the Division of the Budget, the 19 chairman of the Senate Finance Committee and 20 the chairman of the Assembly Ways and Means 21 Committee, each school district for which he" 22 -- and I'm sorry that it doesn't say "he or 23 she," but we're moving in the right direction 24 -- "has approved an aid apportionment for 25 Authority financing of a school -- school 1 construction bond." 2 And Senator Stafford can 3 probably anticipate now, that since he is 4 acknowledged within this measure that I will 5 be wanting him to explain in a little bit more 6 detail how some of this bonding would take 7 place, because on page 78, beginning on line 8 26, I read, "The Dormitory Authority shall not 9 issue any bonds or notes in an amount in 10 excess of $500 million for the purposes of 11 this section, plus a principal amount of bonds 12 or notes." 13 What I would like to know is 14 what is the actual cost of this bonding, if it 15 is enacted, to the good taxpayers of this 16 state, and I wonder if Senator Stafford would 17 be so kind as to yield for a question. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Thank you, 19 Mr. President, and thank you, Senator 20 Hoffmann, for yielding the floor to me. 21 I still want to join in with 22 everyone here, the job that's been done here 23 by all who have been involved. 24 I would like to answer a couple 25 points here. We talked about upstate New 1 York. They were talking about upstate New 2 York. Where did Senator Leichter go? Must be 3 upstate -- he's gone to his summer home in 4 upstate New York. Where has Senator Connor 5 gone? I have some answers here in addition to 6 Senator Hoffmann's answers. 7 When you start talking about 8 where we were three years ago, before Senator 9 Bruno was involved, before Governor Pataki was 10 involved and, yes, the Assembly has been part 11 of it, our budgets in the counties in upstate 12 New York were a disaster, and we were going 13 down the drain. That's where we were in 14 upstate New York when people start worrying 15 about us and saying that we got problems in 16 upstate New York, and we should be addressing 17 that. We now are seeing the light of day in 18 upstate New York with our budgets in our 19 counties and our villages and our cities 20 because of the changes we've had here in the 21 last three years. We were going down the 22 drain. 23 Now, if Senator Connor is 24 listening or if Senator Leichter is listening, 25 I hope they're getting an answer, because when 1 they talk about the problems we had here now 2 with this budget, and talk about whether we're 3 arguing about this state or that state, we 4 were behind all of the states, behind, going 5 down the drain, thousands and hundreds of 6 thousands of jobs leaving the state. That's 7 where we were in upstate, and we had business 8 after business leaving. 9 Now, I know sometimes we look 10 at things on the banks of the Charles a bit 11 different than we do in some other areas, and 12 I know that it isn't the Charles River that 13 goes through Wadhams. Wadhams is a suburb of 14 Elizabethtown. Elizabethtown is the county 15 seat of Essex, and I say to my friends on all 16 sides of the aisle, there was a time here - 17 there was a time here when this state wasn't 18 competitive, when we were in a position where 19 we were having a $5 billion deficit -- $5 20 billion, rather than building in over a 21 billion dollar reserve and working with a 2 22 to $3 billion deficit. And I want to point 23 this out, when it comes to making a budget 24 that I think sometimes we lose, we lose here. 25 You're dealing with a large 1 figure, and, you know, I've learned this and 2 thank the good Lord and thank science and 3 medicine I'm still standing here, but medicine 4 is an inexact science and, my friends, 5 economics, as we mention -- I'm getting to the 6 answer -- economics is not an exact science, 7 believe me. Believe me, and when you talk, 8 think of it -- when you talk about $500 9 million, what percentage of that is that of 10 this budget? And look at what we projected the 11 last few years. Look and see where we 12 projected. You'll find that there was a 13 difference of 5-, $600 million here, a 14 difference of a billion dollars here, and this 15 is with the work of all the economists, and if 16 any of the economists can tell us what we're 17 going to do, I suggest that we've seen 18 something that we haven't seen in the past. 19 My friends, I can only say all 20 who have been part of this system here in the 21 past three years, three and a half years, 22 Senator Bruno, Governor Pataki, yes, the 23 Assembly, we have turned this around and, my 24 friends, this is like turning around a 25 battleship. So when I hear people stand and 1 start talking about how bad things are in 2 upstate New York, my friends, they're not what 3 they were three years ago before this Governor 4 took over, before Senator Bruno took over as 5 leader. We had the cooperation of the 6 Assembly and we started getting back on the 7 track. 8 As I said, often, one man's 9 ceiling is another man's floor. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Mr. 11 President. I was kind of hoping that Senator 12 Stafford had - 13 SENATOR STAFFORD: I'm -- I'm 14 answering the question. 15 SENATOR HOFFMANN: -- an answer 16 to the question. 17 SENATOR STAFFORD: The answer 18 is a good deal like you would get from any 19 good economist, and we're smiling and I smile, 20 but obviously you have to play this completely 21 out, the program that's in the bill, before 22 you know exactly what will happen or exactly 23 what the costs will be, and I would suggest 24 that often with some of these suggestions and 25 answers the economists give us, they should be 1 as accurate as this is, because obviously you 2 would have to see what districts are involved, 3 how much maintenance is involved, exactly how 4 the program plays out and then we'll -- we'll 5 have an answer. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Hoffmann. 8 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 9 Senator Stafford. 10 Well, some of us will not be 11 around to see how far this plays out. $500 12 million plus interest, I guess it's safe to 13 say it's more money than can be easily 14 explained in this chamber this afternoon. How 15 much more, and is it too much more for the 16 taxpayers of this state to endure are the real 17 unanswered questions. 18 I must go back to what happened 19 last fall, to take my guidance before I cast a 20 vote. We had before us on the ballot a school 21 bond act proposal. It was roundly rejected by 22 the taxpayers of this state when they went to 23 the polls. I have heard nothing from the 24 people in the 48th Senate to indicate that 25 they have subsequently changed their mind and 1 would now like to see us go into the business 2 of bonding for school construction projects. 3 All of them support the idea of 4 improving our schools. All of them believe in 5 the wonderful value of public education, and 6 I'm sure all of them would be able to see 7 individually the merit of some schools that 8 will be helped by this proposal. However, 9 they have already said no to us only a few 10 months ago, and I see no reason that we should 11 now do something that amounts to a little 12 switcheroo and place that bond act in disguise 13 in a budget bill labeled as tax cuts. 14 So in good faith, Mr. 15 President, and Senator Bruno, while I applaud 16 much of what has taken place here in the 17 spirit of openness, this is kind of a sneaky 18 little maneuver, and it's not one that I think 19 is going to be well received, no matter how 20 well intentioned, and I would like to have 21 hopefully before we leave this Capitol the 22 actual dollar cost long term just so I can 23 explain what it really means to my 24 constituents, and I would hope that, if the 25 Governor follows through on his original 1 intent, as I -- I've heard in the halls of 2 this Capitol and a few other places, although 3 I have not talked with him personally on this 4 subject, I do think that he as one of those 5 very, very fiscally conservative individuals 6 who understands the people of the central New 7 York area, I think he will find it very 8 difficult to accept this measure in here, and 9 I am confident that, if he reads it carefully, 10 he will share the same concerns that I have 11 voiced today on this floor. 12 I'd like to see us come back 13 and look at this issue in a different way, a 14 different time, but I don't think that it's 15 fair to the people of this state to put it 16 into a bill labeled "tax cuts". It is one 17 more example of back-door borrowing and while 18 we are in this new spirit of openness, I 19 really have to reject this particular proposal 20 labeled on page -- beginning on page 77 of 21 Calendar Number 6094. 22 SENATOR STAFFORD: Would 23 Senator Hoffmann yield for a question, please? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Hoffmann yield? 1 SENATOR HOFFMANN: I'd be glad 2 to. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 yields. 5 SENATOR STAFFORD: Did -- I 6 would ask, and you know and collegiality is 7 very, very important when you're working in a 8 legislative body and, of course, I do my best 9 to be collegial. Some of my friends will 10 probably tell me sometimes I have to work a 11 little hard on it sometimes, harder than I do 12 and I'll continue to work on it, but I would 13 ask, do we all realize that the bond issue was 14 $2.4 billion that was put before the voters? 15 This is 500 million. The bond issue was only 16 for a certain part of the state -- New York 17 City. This is for the entire state and, my 18 friends, one of the worst things we could do 19 in this state -- and this is something Senator 20 Bruno hasn't done, the Governor hasn't done, 21 and the Speaker hasn't done -- you can't, when 22 one area of the state needs consideration, you 23 can't turn your back on it and say, "My 24 district doesn't want it." You do that, 25 you'll get nothing, but nowhere in this 1 legislative body. 2 It's easy to stand up, it's 3 easy to say, Oh, my district doesn't want 4 this; this doesn't affect my district. My 5 friends, I'm convinced that when every 6 district in this state will be able to take 7 advantage -- you weren't here when I was 8 talking to you -- when every district in the 9 state will be able to take advantage of and 10 participate in this bond issue, and when we 11 have some of the problems in this state in 12 certain areas of the state, in certain 13 districts in the greatest city of the -- yeah, 14 the greatest city above one million in the 15 world -- above one million; I don't have any 16 cities of one million, but my point is we have 17 situations that have to be corrected. We have 18 situations where we're still using coal. We 19 have situations where it's absolutely 20 impossible for some of our students in this 21 state are going to school, and when we stand 22 up and say that "my district doesn't want 23 this" and when it is not exactly the same 24 thing as was considered last fall, and when we 25 have worked it out on the anvil of discussion, 1 understanding, compassion, concern and good 2 will, I suggest that I wonder whether we 3 really understand that this is what we've 4 done. 5 SENATOR HOFFMANN: If that's 6 the question, Mr. President. Was there a 7 question within Senator Stafford's request for 8 me to yield for a question, or that I could 9 have rephrased perhaps through the Chair? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 11 you missed the last phrase, "don't you think?" 12 SENATOR HOFFMANN: No, is the 13 answer, Senator Stafford, and I'm very glad 14 you asked me and, Senator Stafford, it is not 15 simply my district and I must beg to differ 16 with you on one very important point. While 17 you are correct that it is much less money 18 than was in the bond act of something a little 19 less than 20 percent, I guess of what the 20 other bond act was, there still will be a 21 sizeable amount of cost to the taxpayers over 22 the period of the term of these bonds, and 23 that, I think, is an issue that we should be 24 very clear about. We're not just talking 25 about $500 million within this year's budget. 1 We are talking about bonding for a much 2 greater cost to be paid back by people for 3 many, many years to come, and I have -- I 4 really have a concern that the people in a 5 vast part of the state, not simply in the 48th 6 Senate District, but since I work directly to 7 them, I report to them every even numbered 8 year and ask if I'm doing a good job and it's 9 up to them to decide whether we're in sync' 10 and then they figure out whether they want me 11 to come back here and do their bidding for 12 another couple of years, but I have heard from 13 so many of them that I felt that it was 14 important to validate their thinking. So - 15 but it's just really a euphemism for talking 16 about the upstate region that you and I both 17 know and love and, as you know, we have many 18 portions of our respective districts that 19 share much in common. I mean Wadhams is not 20 that different from downtown Pratts Hollow or 21 Apulia Station, both of which I'm proud to 22 represent, and people there work very hard for 23 a living. Some of them are under-employed. 24 Some of them wonder where the manufacturing 25 jobs have gone and why it's so tough to make a 1 living in dairy farming today, and they look 2 to us to come here and come up with ways that 3 we can enhance their economic opportunities to 4 meet the expectations that they have for their 5 part of the state. 6 I don't think that's an 7 unreasonable thing for me to say today when I 8 cite their concern about the concept of back 9 door borrowing, and that's what this is and I 10 simply cannot support that part of this 11 measure, no matter how valid the tax cuts are 12 when we go into the borrowing business using 13 the Dormitory Authority, even though I know 14 that it must come to you. It's stated quite 15 clearly in here that the proposals must go 16 before the chairman of the Senate Finance 17 Committee and the chairman of Ways and Means, 18 and that gives me some sense of confidence 19 that, in your wisdom, you would not allow an 20 inappropriate school project to be funded 21 through this mechanism, but I am still 22 concerned about the entire concept of the 23 funding. 24 So I am, therefore, going to 25 have to register a no vote, and I still hope 1 I'll be able to get a complete fiscal profile 2 on this measure before the end of the day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 4 Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 As someone who's stood here 8 before and criticized this process, I felt it 9 important to stand up and just air a couple 10 quick views for the members and my 11 colleagues. 12 First of all, Senator Bruno, I 13 want to tell you that, contrary to your stated 14 assumption, this isn't -- this budget 15 process is not good economics for everybody. 16 I can think of three people off the bat - 17 right off the bat for whom this could be a 18 disaster. 19 First of all, what about all 20 those guys working overtime at the print shop 21 that used to print these bills at 3:00 o'clock 22 in the morning, Senator? They're not going to 23 get their bonus this year, because they're 24 printing it in the light of day. 25 Secondly, Senator, you remember 1 that Italian family that used to make the 2 wonderful ziti that we served out here at 3:00 3 o'clock in the morning. They're gone, 4 Senator, and they may even come from your 5 district. 6 Lastly, Senator, I think 7 unfortunately we've got another budget cut we 8 can do next year if we continue to do it this 9 way. That guy on the second floor that does 10 all those messages of necessity for the 11 Governor, why, you're going to put him right 12 out of business. We can just ax that job next 13 year if we continue to do it on time as we've 14 been doing it this year. 15 So contrary, Senator, to this 16 being -- there are some people that may suffer 17 a little as a consequence of doing this in the 18 light of day and doing it on time. 19 But on a quite more serious 20 note, Senator, I congratulate you, as I have 21 congratulated the Deputy Majority Leader. I 22 have stood here very critical of this process 23 before, and I can remember as recently as 24 three weeks ago saying to my colleague Senator 25 Seabrook, I'm not going to vote for this 1 budget until somebody gives me a place at the 2 table, and I got that this year. I sat on the 3 Senate Health Committee with Senator Larkin, 4 Senator Rath and Senator Hannon who led the 5 committee in the negotiations with our 6 colleague Senator Gottfried, or Assemblyman 7 Gottfried, and I thought it was a solid job. 8 I understand as a lawyer that 9 not everybody can be on a good decision. I 10 was describing to Senator Stafford earlier, I 11 participated in a rather complicated 12 construction matter in my practice as a 13 lawyer. We negotiated in public with 14 14 people at the table for about five hours, and 15 then the lawyers said, Let's go out and see if 16 we can put this thing together in the hall, 17 and we did. So I understand that not every 18 decision can be made at a public table, but I 19 think this year we clearly opened the door to 20 a more open budget process, and as I've 21 described it to some others, I'm not 22 convinced, Senator Bruno, the door is 23 completely open yet, but I think it's 24 certainly ajar. It's moved in the right 25 direction and because the door was open ajar, 1 you could look around the door and see what 2 was going on, you could look between the 3 hedges, the hinges, and see what was going on, 4 a much better position for all of us to be in 5 than to simply have the door closed and keep 6 knocking on the door and not getting answers. 7 The door has been open to this process. 8 Senator Bruno, I think it was 9 an act of political courage to walk down that 10 road not knowing where it led, not knowing 11 where it would end up, but I think this 12 process this year has been an affirmation of 13 the power of collegial politics, and I hope 14 that, quite frankly, it changes some of the 15 relationships even in this room between those 16 of us who are Democrats and Republicans, and 17 the seeming and the unbridgable gulf that sits 18 right in the middle of this chamber may be a 19 little bit easier to bridge in the future. 20 I'll add one comment on 21 substance for my colleagues. I am very leery 22 of prosperity-based promises. I'm leery of 23 promises in which we make for future tax cuts 24 based on assumption of continuing prosperity 25 and that's exactly what we're doing here. 1 We're assuming that the boom on Wall Street, 2 the additional revenues, will fund major tax 3 relief in the future. 4 I stand here today because I 5 quote from actually two of my childhood 6 sources. One comes from my having watched 7 television as a kid. I'm always reminded of 8 that great philosopher, J. Wellington Wimpy, 9 who was on Popeye, who always said, "I'd 10 gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger 11 today." Well, we get the hamburger today when 12 we announce fabulous tax cuts for everybody in 13 this state. We don't pay for it until Tuesday 14 and, if you remember Popeye, Tuesday never 15 came. He was always borrowing in anticipation 16 of the future. 17 My sense is that this budget, 18 the tax cuts in this budget may go a bit too 19 far. I'm mindful of Senator Leichter's 20 comments, and I believe that at least from 21 this legislator's perspective, it's a 22 prosperity-based promise. If the prosperity 23 disappeared, our ability to fulfill that 24 promise will disappear as well. 25 I'll quote one other famous 1 philosopher, and I think it comes from the 2 region represented by my colleague on my left, 3 Senator Gentile, and that is that old Brooklyn 4 axiom of "Wait 'til next year." We'll have to 5 wait 'til next year. We'll have to see what 6 next year brings. If it brings the kind of 7 prosperity that has fueled budget surpluses it 8 will give us the ability to fulfill those 9 promises. If not, I think we face some very 10 difficult choices of whether we're going to 11 keep the promise created by extra fund being 12 for education, extra funding for technology, 13 extra funding for welfare to help them 14 transition, all those promises that we've made 15 to the people of this state that will give 16 them the substance and the ability to stand on 17 their own, work in competitive jobs and 18 survive in the competitive marketplace. That 19 promise we've made to the people of this state 20 and the promise, the tenuous promise, about 21 massive tax relief. Then we will face a very, 22 very difficult choice. 23 But this year I believe that 24 we've got enough money to pay for what we're 25 doing this year. I'm leery of those 1 prosperity promises at least from this 2 legislator's seat. I'm willing to make - 3 fulfill the promise this year and let's wait 4 and see what future year brings. If it 5 doesn't bring the prosperity that we hope for, 6 we face a very, very difficult choice about 7 fulfilling the needs of our citizens and 8 fulfilling the promise of tax relief, and then 9 we will face a truly difficult choice. 10 SENATOR STAFFORD: I wonder if 11 Senator Dollinger would yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Stafford. Senator Dollinger, do you yield? 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I'd be glad 15 to. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 yields. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: You and I 19 often have questions back and forth so that 20 Senator Hoffmann is not the only person I ask 21 questions. But in the spirit of collegiality 22 again and I know in your very fine remarks, 23 and I appreciate it, but I only ask this so we 24 can sort of take a broad stroke of the 25 conceptual brush here. 1 Are we all aware that, when 2 this program was presented in our budget, 3 there was an amendment on the side to my left 4 to increase that spending by $2 billion? That 5 was passed by a party vote, everyone taking 6 part in supporting it with my friends to the 7 left with certain exceptions, and I just point 8 this out to -- to explain that maybe we're 9 thinking -- maybe we weren't thinking then 10 about, because I was -- I was a fan of Pop 11 eye. Now, I don't -- as I look around the 12 room here, not many people remember Popeye, 13 Wimpy. 14 SENATOR HOFFMANN: And Olive. 15 SENATOR STAFFORD: And who? 16 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Olive, you 17 know, Olive Oyl. 18 SENATOR STAFFORD: Well, there 19 are people who are as old as I am around here, 20 but again maybe we weren't thinking, and again 21 I'm not just addressing this to you as the 22 person I'm asking the question. Maybe we 23 weren't thinking then as much about Wimpy and 24 Popeye as we should have been. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Through 1 you, Mr. President. In response, I think that 2 the amendment that you make reference to, 3 Senator Stafford, was an additional investment 4 in the people of this state, that was 5 supported by the Democratic Conference, that 6 our thought was that what we'd do is use the 7 extra surplus, the prosperity laden surplus 8 that we have today, and make an investment to 9 day in the people of this state, whether that 10 investment is in the form of additional 11 education aid, additional school construction 12 aid, help for welfare families, help for 13 middle class families, additional tax cuts for 14 seniors, giving the people of this state a 15 $100 rebate using the surplus to put cash in 16 their pocket that they could go out and drive 17 the economic engine of this state. All of 18 those things were a part of the Democratic 19 proposal, to use what we've got today, use it 20 today and, to use the words of Wimpy, to 21 perhaps change the analogy instead of waiting 22 until Tuesday to pay for the hamburger, we'd 23 pay for the hamburger today. We'd buy it 24 today, we'd pay for it today and then we'd 25 wait to see what happens in the future. 1 Prudence. Fiscally prudent in 2 my judgment, and a good thing for the people 3 of this state. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Gold to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR GOLD: I'm sorry? 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 Mr. President, I will be brief 9 and I just wanted to comment. Senator 10 Stafford said something and lest the walls 11 fall down, Senator, I agree with you. 12 Changing this process is exactly like trying 13 to turn around a battleship, and I think that 14 what was done this year is unquestionably a 15 major step. Our members were involved and 16 while I have often said -- and to the chagrin 17 of some of my own members -- that we suffer 18 around here from too many people in the press 19 corps who are lazy, this time they got to see 20 our members in action, and I even saw them 21 quoted in some of the papers and on 22 television, and while it's very easy for the 23 press to say, Well, who cares about the 24 debate, this is what happened, many people 25 back home often say, Well, how come that 1 happened and nobody said anything, and we try 2 to explain to them that in this house and in 3 the other house, the Minority does speak out 4 for the interest of people. That might be 5 different than what happens on a specific 6 bill. 7 Having said that, I do say, 8 Senator Bruno, that in the future, there are 9 things that can be done to make it a little 10 better and they're really small things. 11 For example, in looking at the 12 subcommittees, there seems to be a lot of 13 agreement that those subcommittees that worked 14 around a table and had people looking at each 15 other seem to work better than the 16 subcommittees that sat up on a dais and did 17 more posturing than anything else. It's a 18 little different when you see a face across 19 from you than when you turn and you're looking 20 at somebody's ear. 21 Also, Senator Bruno, in this 22 house where we have perhaps 43 percent of the 23 house, you still seem to get your way an awful 24 lot of the time. It seems to me that, if you 25 want to take advantage of intellect, it 1 wouldn't be so terrible to have the committees 2 four to two or three to two. You still have 3 your Majority. The Assembly still has its 4 Majority, but you have an opportunity -- you 5 still have an opportunity to bring in more 6 intellect. 7 I also think, Senator Bruno, 8 that while this process was undoubtedly more 9 open and there was more things that were 10 member-driven, the truth is and everybody 11 knows it, there was still a lot of leadership 12 strings. I know my committee was charged with 13 the responsibility of looking at the tax 14 package. My committee didn't announce 15 anything until after Senator Stafford already 16 announced what the leaders had agreed would be 17 the tax package, and I know the Assembly 18 co-chair was very upset and held a meeting 19 right away to make it look like he did it but 20 everyone knows it was done by leadership. 21 But having said that, the fact 22 is that this is a major step towards reform, 23 and while we may have been proposing it for 24 ten years, it is not unusual for the 25 Majorities to take ten years to catch up with 1 us and we understand that but, Senator Bruno, 2 you stand out there every year to take the 3 blame and to get bashed around and take the 4 blame. So in this situation, I think it's 5 only fair that you do get some of the credit 6 and I mean that sincerely. 7 In America, it has always been 8 a Majority that is in power that does give up 9 some of its power which starts to have 10 Minorities take place -- take their part in 11 the system. 12 I think that as someone said 13 and it's been quoted all over the place for 14 weeks now, the genie's out of the bottle. I 15 think that that is good. I think that you and 16 Speaker Silver have found out that you didn't 17 disintegrate by giving up some of this power. 18 You still have your major power. 19 So I congratulate the 20 Legislature for the way everybody adopted so 21 quickly to this. Certainly the co-chairs were 22 operating in a situation where many of them 23 were without direction and perhaps next year 24 there will be better direction given to them. 25 I can only judge from my committee, but there 1 was an Assembly Republican sitting on my 2 committee and I'm glad he was there, 3 Assemblyman Winner, and his intellect was 4 certainly a help to the committee. 5 So it's not only that this 6 particular Minority which has talent was out 7 there to be seen but certainly there were some 8 Assembly Republicans who got an opportunity 9 which they also were entitled to. 10 So I think that the proof of 11 the pudding to some extent is in the eating 12 and here we are. It is April 14th and we are 13 doing the people's work. 14 So I think it is certainly a 15 major change and certainly a refreshing 16 change. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 18 Stachowski, do you want to speak or do you 19 want to explain your vote? 20 The Secretary will read the 21 last section. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I have one 23 comment, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 25 Stachowski. 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 2 President, I don't want to make a long comment 3 but earlier Senator Stafford mentioned that 4 the Minority had proposed an amendment that 5 would have spent an additional $2 billion over 6 the Governor and not to be confrontational on 7 a day that we're all happy with the process, 8 but the Minority never supported any amendment 9 that would have spent more than the Governor, 10 and I just wanted to make that correction to 11 keep us on the straight and narrow. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 13 Secretary will read the last - 14 SENATOR STAFFORD: Will Senator 15 Stachowski yield for a question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 17 Stachowski, do you yield to a question? 18 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 19 SENATOR STAFFORD: Again, in 20 the spirit of collegiality in trying to put it 21 altogether, I didn't say anything about more 22 or less than the Governor. Do you remember 23 that? I just said it was $2 billion more. 24 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Oh, okay. 25 Then I stand corrected. I assumed that he 1 meant more than the Governor but we weren't 2 spending more than anybody. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 54. 6 This act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the 10 roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 12 the negatives and announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 14 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in 15 the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 bill is passed. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 20 can we at this time take up Senate 6105-C. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read Senate Print 6105-C, which 23 is Calendar 492. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 492, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6105-C, an act 1 making appropriation for the support of 2 government. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Secretary will read the last section. 5 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 7 Cook. 8 SENATOR COOK: Mr. President, I 9 would simply like to point out that -- I would 10 simply like to point out that I think this 11 process worked very well on this particular 12 bill. I'm not going to belabor what's in it. 13 I would like to indicate, 14 however, in regard to the bonding on the 15 previous bill, that as much as I am opposed to 16 bonding myself, that this is a four-year 17 program, that there is no way to predict how 18 much of that money may be going out the door 19 in a given year because of the approval 20 process and the only way to make sure that the 21 money will be accessible at the point in time 22 when the projects are approved is to put it in 23 a bonding procedure which is in a sense a 24 first instance where it can be bonded, paid 25 out and then repaid out of a general fund in 1 the year in which it applies. So that's the 2 reason it was done in that manner, but in 3 general, I support the concept. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 5 Secretary will read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 This act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the 11 roll.) 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 13 the negative. Announce the results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 15 1, Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 bill is passed. 18 Senator Bruno. 19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 20 can we at this time take up Senate 6103-C. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 22 Secretary will read Senate 6103-C. It's 23 Calendar 436. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 436, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6103-C, an act 1 making appropriations for the support of 2 government. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 4 Sec... Senator Padavan. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 This budget bill which I will 8 vote for, like all the other bills before us 9 this afternoon, does a great deal of good in 10 so many different ways that touch the people 11 of this state. 12 However, there is one small 13 part of this bill which I think is important 14 in terms of its significance and where it does 15 not do the right thing for the people of this 16 state, and I specifically refer to that 17 section of the bill on page 245 that deals 18 with the state lottery. 19 The amount indicated here in 20 excess of $105 million is not broken down in 21 detail but inquiries indicate to us that there 22 will be increases in advertising in the state 23 lottery. There will be 2500 new outlets of 24 the state lottery. Additional funds will be 25 expended for lottery vending machines for the 1 Quick Draw program that we regrettably bid 2 into a number of years ago. 3 Report after report, the most 4 recent being two weeks ago relevant to teenage 5 gambling in the state, tells us that we are 6 getting more and more of that part of our 7 population that should not be participating in 8 gambling by advertising and other means of 9 enticing them into lottery games. 10 I'm not a prohibitionist on 11 this or anything else for that matter, but I 12 think you reach a point where you're going too 13 far and in New York State I think we've gone 14 far past that point, and this budget, 15 unfortunately, and this portion of it 16 continues in that mode. 17 So while I support the bill and 18 all of the other budget bills for all the 19 reasons that have been articulated so 20 extremely well here today, I feel disposed, 21 Mr. President, at this juncture to point out 22 what I consider a failing in the process that 23 we are dealing with today. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read the last section. 1 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Oh, 4 there's two members. 5 Senator Leichter, I think you 6 beat Senator - 7 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 8 President, I'm also going to support this 9 bill, but I too want to point out an aspect of 10 this bill which I think is unwise. An 11 appropriation of $25 million for - 12 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 13 Leichter, could you take the piece of paper 14 off the microphone. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Is that 16 what's causing that noise? I was looking 17 around seeing - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: I think 19 the - 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Thank 22 you. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: I'm troubled 24 by the 25 million added to Jobs Now which will 25 provide a total of $70 million. This money 1 goes to the Empire State Development 2 Corporation. 3 Let me make it very clear, as I 4 hope I have at other times. I have no problem 5 in state economic assistance programs. I do 6 have a problem in programs that don't work and 7 in investing in industries that are downsizing 8 and not creating jobs. 9 Now, I'm advised that some 10 changes have been made, will, I believe be in 11 the language bill which will at least give 12 some guarantees that there will be additional 13 jobs created. 14 I issued a report, maybe about 15 a month ago showing the number of ESD grants 16 and gifts and loans that have gone to 17 corporations that then moved out of the state 18 or never provided the jobs that they were 19 required to provide. I think it's one thing 20 to hold out a helping hand. I think it's 21 another thing to be a sucker, and that's what 22 we too often have been. 23 I got up before on this floor 24 today and at other times expressing my 25 disagreement with the economic development 1 policies that we've pursued, and I just 2 implore and beseech you to look at each of 3 these programs. The fact that somebody says, 4 This is to create jobs; this is to make us 5 competitive doesn't mean it's a good program. 6 Look at the results. Look at the bottom 7 line. We've had Comptroller's reports about 8 how our economic development policies have not 9 done what they were supposed to. We never 10 really look and see whether the money we're 11 investing is bringing us the return that we 12 want. We've got committees in this 13 Legislature. Why don't we hold a hearing to 14 see how ESD is performing its job, and this is 15 not political because I pleaded with you to do 16 the same thing when it was UDC under Vince 17 Tese. I think that, by and large, it's an 18 agency outside of our control, maybe outside 19 of anybody's control, spending an awful lot of 20 money and showing very little return for the 21 people of the state of New York. Now to give 22 them additional monies, I think is unwise. 23 There are obviously other 24 aspects of this bill that I support. As 25 Senator Bruno said, you're not going to find 1 in a budget bill of this size something that 2 all of us can enthusiastically support, but I 3 do want to get up and make the point and I 4 will continue making it, that our economic 5 development policies have to show results and 6 if they don't, we shouldn't be pouring more 7 money down a rat's hole. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 9 Hoffmann. 10 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 This is a repeat of something 13 that came up last year. It includes in it a 14 425 million bonding proposal, if passed, that 15 would, again, subject the taxpayers of this 16 state to a much greater cost than $425 17 million, obviously. Well intentioned as it 18 is, I have a great deal of difficulty 19 supporting it. 20 I opposed it last year but last 21 year it was at least subject to an MOU. That 22 MOU expired on April 1st. I don't see the 23 reference to language in here to explain how 24 this would all be enacted. I'm somewhat 25 troubled by that. 1 Also I'm a little disturbed 2 that during this budget negotiation that we 3 had, the Governor had originally proposed 4 converting this $425 million appropriation 5 into a cash appropriation instead of bonding 6 for it, and I'm disturbed that the leadership 7 in this house and the leadership in the other 8 house who were involved most closely in these 9 negotiations -- because I don't believe this 10 was on the table in the conference committees, 11 although I may be wrong -- but certainly 12 didn't come before the General Government 13 Conference Committee where I think I would 14 have expected to see it, but since it -- we've 15 taken a step backwards from where we were last 16 year. If it was a bad idea last year to bond 17 for $425 million for arts and sports 18 facilities around the state and do it subject 19 to an MOU, then it's an even worse idea this 20 year when we had more available cash for us to 21 continue this concept of bonding for $425 22 million, especially since we don't even know 23 the actual mechanism by which the money would 24 be appropriated. 25 So I'm afraid, once again, I 1 must respect the wishes of the people in the 2 Central New York area, both in and in the 3 surrounding areas to the 48th Senate District 4 and cast my vote in the negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the 12 roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 14 the negatives. 15 Senator Leichter to explain his 16 vote. 17 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. I 18 don't want my name called. I said about two 19 minutes ago I was going to vote for this bill, 20 but I had forgotten that it included the 425 21 million that Senator Hoffmann just reminded me 22 of and I've got to say, that tips the balance 23 for me certainly in voting against it. I 24 think she's absolutely right. I pointed out 25 some other reasons and while there's some very 1 good things in here, I cannot support that 425 2 million. 3 So I will vote in the negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 5 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 6 Announce the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 8 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in 9 the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 11 bill is passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 would you call up Calendar Number 616, Senate 15 6098-B. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 17 Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 616, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6098-B, an act 20 to amend Chapter 393 of the Laws of 1994, 21 amending the New York State Urban Development 22 Corporation Act. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 24 Secretary will read the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 1 This act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the 5 roll.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Excuse 7 me. Withdraw the roll call. 8 Senator Stafford, are you 9 handling the explanation on Calendar Number 10 616? Senator Leichter has requested an 11 explanation. 12 SENATOR STAFFORD: Mr. 13 President, the purpose of this bill is to 14 place in statutory provisions, in other words, 15 enact statutory provisions, in appropriation 16 language, provisions necessary to implement 17 the Transportation, Economic Development and 18 Environmental Conservation Budget Bill, the 19 Education, Labor and Family Assistance Budget 20 Bill and the Public Protection, Health, Mental 21 Hygiene Budget Bill, and as we know in the 22 past years due to a Supreme Court decision - 23 no, Court of Appeals decision -- it's known as 24 the Bankers decision -- it is necessary that 25 we carry out this responsibility. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 2 Leichter. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I have 4 no questions. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 6 Secretary will read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the 12 roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 14 the negatives. Announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 16 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in 17 the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 would you call up Calendar Number 615, Senate 23 6096-B. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 615, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6096-B, an act 3 in relation to appropriations made by a 4 Chapter of the Laws of 1998, enacting the 5 General Government Budget. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 51. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the 13 roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Record 15 the negative. Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 58, nays 17 1, Senator Hoffmann recorded in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 19 bill is passed. 20 Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 22 would you call up Calendar Number 491, Senate 23 6100-B. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 Secretary will read. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 491, Budget Bill, Senate Print 6100-B, an act 3 making appropriations for the support of 4 government, the Legislature and the Judiciary 5 Budget. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 7 Secretary will read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the 13 roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 15 Leichter, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, Mr. 17 President, just to explain my vote. 18 We've had an opportunity really 19 to debate this bill, if not an identical bill, 20 certainly a bill that had the same flaws as 21 this particular bill does. This is the 22 Legislative and Judicial Budget. 23 For years I have opposed the 24 Legislative Budget because it's a hoax. It's 25 a fraud. It's not a true budget bill. It has 1 lump sum appropriation. It doesn't advise the 2 members or the public of how we're going to 3 spend what is, I believe, close to $160 4 million. It's really an act of contempt on 5 our part to the public to say that we can pass 6 a bill in this form and claim that it's a 7 budget bill. 8 With all the praise that we 9 heaped on ourselves today and maybe some of it 10 was deserved, we certainly show that we have a 11 long way to go in reforming our procedures 12 when we put forth a budget bill of this sort. 13 I would really hope the Legislature could do 14 what we require of the executive, and that is 15 to put forth an itemized detailed budget. 16 Mr. President, I will vote in 17 the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Senator 19 Leichter will be recorded in the negative. 20 Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 57, nays 22 2, Senators Hoffmann and Leichter recorded in 23 the negative. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 bill is passed. 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 if we could return to motions and resolutions, 4 I believe there's two privileged resolutions 5 at the desk by Senator Volker. I ask that the 6 titles be read and move for their immediate 7 adoption. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: We'll 9 return to the order of motions and 10 resolutions. 11 I'll direct the Secretary to 12 read the title to the privileged resolutions 13 by Senator Volker. 14 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 15 Volker, Legislative Resolution commending 16 Teresa House upon the occasion of its 17 designation as recipient of the "Geneseo 18 Foundation Meritorious Service Award"; 19 By Senator Volker, Legislative 20 Resolution honoring Molly McKeown on the 21 occasion of her designation as the recipient 22 of the "Geneseo Foundation Meritorious Service 23 Award." 24 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: The 25 question is on the resolutions. All those in 1 favor signify by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye".) 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (There was no response.) 5 The resolutions are adopted. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 7 is there any housekeeping at the desk? We 8 have a few housekeepers here that want to be 9 of help. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: There's 11 no housekeeping up here, Senator. 12 SENATOR BRUNO: No 13 housekeeping. Our business having been 14 concluded in an extremely efficient way and 15 there being no further business to come before 16 the Senate, I would move that we stand 17 adjourned until Wednesday, April 29th, at 3:00 18 p.m., intervening days to be legislative days. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT KUHL: Without 20 objection, hearing no objection, the Senate 21 stands adjourned until Wednesday, April 29th, 22 at 3:00 p.m., intervening days to be 23 legislative days. The Senate stands 24 adjourned. 25 (Whereupon, at 4:29 p.m., the 1 Senate adjourned.) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9